Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 4 Part 12) (10/15/26)

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What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
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this episode, we're diving right back in to day number
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four of the transcript from the Tyler Robinson prelim hearing.
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And we're picking up with the prosecution questioning agent or
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Sergeant Fomina. Question. All right. You've mentioned that you sent
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several items to the ATF and the FBI for testing.
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And did you receive reports back from both of those
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entities with results of their testing? Answer, yes, I did. Question,
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I'd like to show you on the witness screen only
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right now or counsel screen exhibit 30. Judge Graff, all right.
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And while you're doing that, Mr. McBride. And also, could
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we go ahead and take down state exhibit 35? I
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know it's just in the background, but just to be
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consistent on displaying of exhibits. So they take it down.
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Back to the questioning. Question, plaintiff exhibit 30. Do you
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know what this is? Answer, yeah. That's the ATF report
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that I received regarding the DNA testing on the gun
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and cartridge and cartridge casings. Oh, sorry, correction, cartridge case
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and cartridges. Question, thank you. And is this in the
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same condition as it was when you received it? Answer, yes. Question,
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Your Honor. I'd move to the admission of Exhibit 30.
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Judge Graff, defense. Defense, no further objections, Your Honor. Judge Graff,
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all right. I note the standing objections. And as to publication... Prosecution,
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yes your honor, this exhibit deals with DNA testing on
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the rifle and the cartridges. We would move to have
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it published at all three levels. Judge Graff, alright, so,
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noting the standing objection by defense, I'm going to overrule
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that objection pursuant to Utah Rule of Evidence 1102. State Exhibit,
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and this is 30. Prosecution, 30. Judge Graff, State Exhibit
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30 is admitted into evidence and may be published on
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screen in the courtroom and for the media camera. Prosecution.
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I want to ask you a little bit about the
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format because it may be helpful to understand here. But
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on page 1 under the exhibits, we have here a
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list of items that were sent in for testing and comparison.
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Is that right? Answer, yes. Question. And throughout the report,
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the report refers to the items compared by the lab number.
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Is that right? Answer, yes. Question. So if we can
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scroll down to just the bottom of the first page,
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and here in the DNA analysis section again, we see
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that the report or the author refers to the item
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By their exhibit number, right? Answer, yes. Question, okay. And
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if we can go to page two. And same question here.
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The exhibit number on the left. If we want to
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know what exhibit number that is, we have to refer
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back to page one for the description, right? Answer, yes. Question, okay.
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And let's keep going to page three. And if we
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can just scroll through page three, four, and land on
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page five. Actually, pause right there if you will. This
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is page four. There is a description section here as well.
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And that description talks about where the swabbing that's used
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to compare. What was swabbed for the comparison? Is that right? Answer, yes. Question, okay.
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Let's go to page five. So as we look at
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the first paragraph here under statistical analysis, let's see if
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you have noted or notated or no. Exhibit 1.1 and 1.4.
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Do you know what that's referring to? Answer, yeah. They're
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referring to 1.1 is swabs of the stock and grip
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of the rifle. And then 1.4 is swabs of the
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bolt of the rifle with possible ridge detail and or smudging. Question, okay,
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will you read paragraph D? Answer, yeah. The DNA profiles
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are at least 1 trillion times more likely if they
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originated from Tyler Robinson. Exhibit 7.1 as a contributor to
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the major component and three unrelated unknown individuals than if
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they originated from four unrelated unknown individuals. Question and again.
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That's swab of the stock and grips and bolt. Is
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that right? Answer, yes. Question, okay, number two. Calculation number two.
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Where is this swab taken from? Answer, exhibit 1.2 would
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be swabs of the butt plate of the rifle. Question,
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and will you read paragraph D here? Answer, the DNA
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profile is at least one trillion times more likely if
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it originated from Tyler Robinson as a major component and
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four unrelated unknown individuals than if it originated from five
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unrelated unknown individuals. Question, looking at calculation number three, exhibit 1.3,
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what areas are swabbed for this comparison? Answer, 1.3 is
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swabs of the trigger and trigger guard of the rifle
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with possible ridge detail and or smudging. Question, will you
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read up paragraph D? Answer, the DNA profile is at
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least one trillion times more likely if it originated from
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Tyler Robinson as a major component and three unrelated unknown
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individuals than if it originated from four unrelated, unknown individuals. Question,
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if we can go to page 6, calculation number 4,
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exhibit 1.5 and 5.1, what are those? Question, sorry, 1.5
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are swabs of the fore end of the rifle, and 5.1
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is swabs of one. 30- 06 cartridge. Question, and again, that
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cartridge came from where? Answer, from the firearm. Question, will
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you read paragraph D? Answer. The DNA profiles are at
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least 1 trillion times more likely if they originated from
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Tyler Robinson as a major component and two unrelated, unknown
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individuals than if they originated from three unrelated, unknown individuals. Question.
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All right. Let's look at calculation number 5, 1.6, and 3.1.
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What are those? Answer. 1.6 is swabs of the barrel
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of the rifle with possible ridge detail and or smudging.
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And 3.1 is swabs of one 30-06 cartridge. Question, and
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that 30-06 cartridge came from where? Answer, from the firearm. Question,
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will you read paragraph D? Answer, the DNA profiles are
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at least 1 trillion times more likely if they originated
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from Tyler Robinson as a contributor to the major components
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and two unrelated unknown individuals than if they originated from
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three unrelated unknown individuals. Question, okay. Statistical analysis calculation number 6,
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exhibit 1.9. Where's that from? Question 1.9 is the swab
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a possible ridge detail and or smudging on the optical
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accessory of the rifle? Question is that the scope? Answer yeah. Question,
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will you read paragraph D? Answer, the DNA profile is 6.28
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billion times more likely if it originated from Tyler Robinson
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as a contributor to the major component and three unrelated
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unknown individuals than if it originated from four unrelated, unknown individuals. Question, okay.
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And number seven. I'm not going to read that. I
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think we've gone through this enough. That's the last one
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in this report. Is that correct? Answer, yes. Question, all right.
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We can go to Exhibit 32. 31, previously received. And
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just display this on the screen of the witness, please.
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I think it might display on the gallery video. Okay,
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all right. Thank you. Can you see Exhibit 32 on
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your screen, Agent Fulmina? Answer, yes. Question, what is this? Answer,
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this is an ATF report I received in relation to
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the gun, as well as cartridge case and cartridges. Question,
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and is this report in the same condition as it
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was when you received it? Answer, yes. Question, I move
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the admission of State Exhibit 32. Judge Graff, so, question
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for you. Was this the report that was previously disclosed
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in one of the early motions? Prosecution, yes. Judge Graff, alright, alright. Defense? Defense,
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no further objections, Your Honor. Judge Graff, all right. And
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for publication level? Prosecution, all three levels. Judge Graff, all right.
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As it relates to State Exhibit 32, it's accepted into
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evidence and may be published in the gallery, as well
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as electronic, the media camera, can capture it. And I
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know that this has been previously disclosed publicly from an
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earlier filing, I believe from either late last year or
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early this year. So for those reasons, it's accepted into
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evidence and may be published at all levels. PROSECUTION. YOUR HONOR,
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IT'S 2.30. I PROBABLY HAVE 10 MORE MINUTES. WOULD YOU
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LIKE TO TAKE A RECESS NOW, OR AFTER I FINISH?
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JUDGE GRAFF. LET'S JUST DO THE 10 MINUTES, OKAY? PROSECUTION.
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ALL RIGHT. EXHIBIT 32 IS IN FRONT OF YOU. AND
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WHAT WAS BEING ANALYZED IN THIS TEST? AGENT FOMINA. WHAT'S
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BEING ANALYZED WOULD HAVE BEEN THE CARTRIDGE CASE, AS WELL
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AS THE BULLET FRAGMENT, AND THE LEAD FRAGMENTS THAT WERE
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RECOVERED FROM MR. KIRK'S AT AUTOPSY. QUESTION. ALL RIGHT. SAME QUESTION.
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ON STRUCTURE OF THE EXHIBIT. The lab number and agency
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numbers are listed here on the first page, right? Answer, yes. Question,
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and if you want to know what the report is
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talking about, you have to refer back to there, right? Answer, yes. Question,
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all right. I want to have you read. If you
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can scroll down to the bottom of page one, thank you.
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I would ask you to read the second line under
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results of examination. Answer, yes. The exhibit one rifle was
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test fired and found to be inoperable condition. The test
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fires were designated inoperable. as Exhibit 1.11. Question, an Exhibit
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1 rifle is what? Answer, it's the one we found
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on campus. Question, okay, Exhibit 2, if you'll skip the
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next line and then go to Exhibit 2 cartridge case,
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will you read that sentence? Answer, yeah, the Exhibit 2
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cartridge case was identified as having been fired in the
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Exhibit 1 rifle. Question, okay, now I want to jump
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back up to the top where it lists the exhibits,
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2 through 5. Will you explain what those are and
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where they came from? Answer, yeah. That would be items
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we found in the gun on scene, and this was
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the gun that was found in the wooded area. Question,
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and so the cartridge case, is the case that had
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been fired? Answer, yes. Question, okay, so that's number two,
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all right? I can't remember, did we already read that line,
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exhibit two, cartridge case? Answer, yes. Question, okay, thank you.
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Will you also look or read the last paragraph, on
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this page? Answer, yeah. The Exhibit 2 cartridge case and
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Exhibit 3 through 5 cartridges were examined for the presence
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of comparable tool marks. Tool marks were located on the
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exterior of Exhibit 2 cartridge case and Exhibit 3 cartridges,
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in parentheses, inscribed marks that are consistent with being produced
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by engravings and or rotary cutting tips commonly found. Question,
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got it, scroll down. Installed and handheld rotary tools such
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as a Dremel tool. These tool marks contain marks of
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value for comparison if a suspect tool is located. Question, okay.
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I'd ask to scroll back up to show the exhibit list.
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Number six, what is exhibit six? Answer, exhibit six is
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the bullet jacket fragment. as well as the other fragments
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that were recovered from Mr. Kirk at the time of
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the autopsy. Question, thank you. Going back to page two,
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if you read the first full paragraph, they're beginning with
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Exhibit 6. Answer, Exhibit 6 consists of one. 30 caliber
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class deformed damaged bullet jacket fragment and four lead fragments. Question,
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will you read the next paragraph as well? Answer, The
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Exhibit 6 bullet jacket fragment cannot be identified or excluded
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as having been fired from the Exhibit 1 rifle based
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on an agreement of all discernible class characteristics, and neither
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sufficient agreement nor sufficient disagreement of individual characteristics. The result
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of the comparison was inconclusive. Alright folks, we're going to
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wrap up right here, and in the next episode dealing
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with the topic we're going to pick up where we
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left off. All the information that goes with this episode
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can be found in the description box.