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Speaker 1: Stove.
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Speaker 2: What a kind of name is that? Well, welcome to another edition.
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Speaker 3: It is Chuck Powell and Anders Hurst Stove, our Mariners off season podcast, the latest episode weekly discussion between Anders and myself and this week we've had days since a major move here in the off season, which we'll dive into this this hour with you here on stove. Happy holidays too.
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Speaker 2: Thanks Chuck, appreciate you know.
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Speaker 4: Another episode right by the fire we fire up the are we doing gas stove? Are we doing you know, electric stove? Chuck wood all morning shofwood. We're not gonna waste that.
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Speaker 3: Then. Also, please help yourself to the dog get the good stuff.
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Speaker 2: So you're a nog fannog? Would you put anything in it?
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Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, okay, I mean I will just drink just the ny Weil stuff because I think it's really good. But obviously it's better with you know Uncle John's coughs here. Yes, yes it is, It absolutely is. Yeah. So but I don't even I weep for people that don't like nog, just like I weep for people that don't like off season baseball discussions. So true, Yeah, you're both really missing it. Yeah, yeah, I feel sorry for you. Were probably weren't raised.
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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you're you're You probably don't have a great relationship with your parents. If you don't like the Stove podcast, all right, you've got naggy issues. But uh, you know, I there has been a move, and I honestly like peek behind the curtain. I was texting you about what we're gonna chat about today and I completely forgot that this had happened since our last episode. Or hey, Polanco signs with the Mets. Let's dive right into it here. Happy holidays to everyone, and happy holidays to the Mets because they got their new wait for it, first basement.
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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, excuse me, Yeah, uh well, I don't know. I mean, you're getting a bat, that's what you're going. Sure you would be bringing back. I mean, I don't think anybody's cold infusing Horey Polanco for a defensive wizard. No, certainly not at this stage of his career, you know. I mean I can go back to three seasons ago of Stove. I wanted Ora Polanco in the Mariner uniform for a number of years before we even got in. We really pushed hard for him the first year that you and I did the podcast together, and certainly there was the rough. There was enthusiastic reaction when we did acquire him from the Twins, and then the rough first year, and then the terrific second year, and then the outstanding postseason.
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Speaker 4: He owns you, Derek Scooble, two years forty is the number. Yes, So I don't think I.
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Speaker 3: Have to tell you or anybody that listens to the Stove podcast how much I like Horror Polonco. I do. And I wanted him back this year, and I know the Mariners did, and I really think Jorge did. Yeah, but he's just not a spend whatever it takes kind of player. And I get totally that the organization probably entered this offseason thinking two years twenty five. If we're honest with ourselves, we might have to bump that to twenty eight. I mean, once you're getting to forty, I realized there's no salary cap in this sport, and there are people that just spend. What are you gonna do with it?
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Speaker 2: It's not your money.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, But on the other hand, obviously they operate with some sort of soft payroll, some sort of castriction that they give themselves. And if you're spending overspending, and it would that's an overspend by the Mets.
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Speaker 2: They can do that because they're dumb.
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Speaker 3: With a lot of money, which is a dangerous combination and most in society. But I mean, obviously we're operating with restrictions financially here, and if they're self imposed, they're self imposed. But we're still rating by them. And I don't want that money that was set aside, all of it going to whor Hete Polonco when there are probably a couple more moves that we need to make this offseason. So I totally get it that they're moving on from Polanco at that price, and I would have done the same thing.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's weird because you and I were kind of, you know, kind of iffy on not necessarily what we thought would be the final number. It would be the years, it would be if he wanted three plus years, which I thought I thought that would be the hang up, not the actual number, but him getting to forty million on just two years. If you're the Mets, like and like we just talked about, it's a different perspective because you don't really have that same restriction on how much you're spending, right, you need to fill the hole. You lost Peter Alonzo, you lost Edwin Diaz. This is all within one week. They needed to get something back, So that's an obvious overpay. But I still would see him being pretty ductive. And I just don't know how good he is going to be at first base, because that's just that that's a weird.
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Speaker 3: One to me.
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Speaker 4: But I yeah, I would not have brought him back. From the Mariner's perspective, two years, two years forty not matching that. Go enjoy yourself, thank you for your year that.
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Speaker 3: You had here. And even even if you got him at your price, even if you got him at let's say two years twenty five million, which is kind of the number that was originally thrown out, that might and yet and this market has been crazy robust. I mean, Hasan Kim got a twenty million dollars a year salth right now, just for one year. But he's coming off a terrible year, unhealthy and unproductive. Yes, so the market's kind of crazy right now. I mean, teams are spending money, and I'm sure that the Mariners they usually are yep, are caught off guard by market rate and and so, but even if you started to two years even if you got him at two years twenty four or twenty five, like we originally started speculating, you're taking on risk. He's a thirty two year old about to be thirty three year old player that really doesn't have a position. I mean he's not I mean he can play the field for you second, maybe even third, as I've suggested, if he had a full spring training to work on that healthy and somebody that has a litany of injuries as well. I mean, he's just a person that you say, I want you back, and I want you back at this figure, and I'm nearly not gonna bump much beyond that. And if it's really so important to Hoare Polanco's of the world to have a little bit more money, to leave a great situation where you love the clubhouse, You've got a great team. If it's really that important for you to have the most money that you can get, then to me, it's let me help you pack.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks, Ray, You've been great.
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Speaker 3: We do appreciate what you put together this past year. We really like you. But if that's what's most important to you, maybe we don't even want you on the team.
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Speaker 4: So are we coming to the reality that second and third base will both be filled internally, or are there pivot options? The Mariners are still heavily linked to the Brendan Donovan deal with Saint Louis. I know we talked about this earlier, but this update kind of gives a new perspective on it. They no longer have the Jorge Polonco kind of fallback options. So what's the pivot for the Mariners in this situation?
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Speaker 3: Well, I've said before I think Cole Young's our second basement. But I do believe there's going to be a move. I think that you can rest assured that that's going to happen. And whether that's DH or third or both, I think there's a chance that both of them. Let's start with Donovan, okay, and I like him as an asset. I mean we've talked about this on numerous episodes. If he was a Mariner next year, I'm happy to have Mariners. But just like with Polonko, I'm not the price. There's going to be a price here trade value wise that does not match up with what he's what the Cardinals are rumored to be seeking. The only thing I can chalk this up to anders is that there are Major League Baseball insiders who, for whatever reason, are reading cardinal fan websites, people without really knowledge of how it works, who are concocting stupid fan trades, and insiders like John Paul Morosi and others are running with it because there is no way Brendan Donovan is worth what is being rumored out there in terms of a trade with the Mariners. I'm gonna tell you this right now. If the Mariners and they're not going to do it, traded Cold Emerson for Brendan Donovan, I will start rooting for the Astros.
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Speaker 2: My gosh, just on principle, on principle.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're that dumb that you're gonna cave just to have some squatty middle endfielder with no power and no speed, that you're gonna give up.
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Speaker 2: Anything with the long term potential.
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Speaker 3: Of greatness, you don't know what you're doing, and I'm not gonna invest anything more in you. I mean, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, And I'm saying that for emphasis. You know, maybe I'll do the ABC's of the Astros next year on Chuck and Buck. I'm just saying this is this you want to sign Polanco with that money. I get it. You if you want Donovan, I get it. But you do not give up anything with the potential to be great. You want to give up a couple good prospects, fine, but we're we're gonna put a ring about Montes, and we're gonna put a ring around Emerson, and we're gonna put a ring around Ryan Sloan. And those guys will only be moved if the last name is Sodo.
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Speaker 2: Yeah or yeah.
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Speaker 3: You know, we're not moving it for the Donovans of the world, right, So let's just let's just hammer that down on this episode of Stove.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I completely agree with you. And we've talked about this before with the Harry Forge, Like there are so many people who kind of belittle the prospect hoarders and like, you don't know what they're gonna turn into. You gotta trade it for production. Well, let's be honest when you when you trade prospects, like middling sort of value is a little what they kind of are right now, You're not going to get a superstar player by trading a prospect. That's just not how it works. So the best chance of you getting another superstar player is to hold on in those prospects and let them develop, and that I think is the best chance for the Mariners to take that next step up in terms of their offense, at least with the cold Emersons and the Last Monteses of the world. But for better or for worse, I am heavily involved in Mariner's online interactions.
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Speaker 2: Uh.
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Speaker 4: And the newest thing is Cardinals online interactions because they have even included the Bryce Millers and Brian Wolves in the trade. It's insane for Brendan donnald, it's insane.
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Speaker 3: There's again, how's Houston looking this time of year? Yeah, because if anything like that happens, if the Mariners are that sold on some mulleted pudgy infield who can't run or hit for power, I mean, he's got a hit tool. He's got a hit tool to him. Yeah, he's got a hit What else could I say about him tool? And that's it. Yeah, even that he's probably a platoon player, Yeah he's. I mean he's he didn't hit lefties.
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Speaker 2: Last year, No he's not. Yeah, kind of like you.
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Speaker 4: I mean he's kind of a utility guy too, doesn't really have one major position and can play some left field, which I think is valuable. I think people kind of throw the name utility man as if, oh, it's like Dylan Moore, you don't really have a position, but you kind of are okay at all of them. No, there's some value in being able to play multiple positions, especially if you're a plus bat, which at this point he's a plus bat. But he's not like an elite bat or anything like that. He has a hit tool. That's a great way to put it.
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Speaker 2: But I don't.
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Speaker 3: I mean, look, I grew up in Saint Louis, and I know how Cardinal fans work. Cardinal fans' favorite players are jose A Kendo and Joe mckewing and you know, a little scrappy guys David eck Stein's they got the most out of their ability, you know, And so I get why they have overvalued him. But for people to be acknowledging it that are supposed to know better, Yeah, like this is the market. If that's the market, then I don't understand the market. And if the Mariners dared trade what is being rumored out there that the Cardinals are asking for again, I'm done. I'm not investing any more faith in this front office. That's how strongly I feel.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and they won't do it. Like let's be like, we're not saying that it's going to happen. And that's how we feel right now. That is how Chuck is so confident in that it won't happen. Yeah, that he's saying that guys like I can put this out there because I know it won't happen. But the newest thing that Mariners fans are just like what, there's one of the bigger, you know, online people for the Cardinals is like how a Mariner's fans view Bryce Miller and is a picture of Jacob deGrom warming up And it's like, what, No, it's.
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Speaker 3: He's a lot closer to de Grom than Donovan is to Babe Ruth. And that's what you seem to be asking for in a trade, because what I would disagree with you on is you can get a superstar player for prospects. I mean we've seen it throughout history at the right time. I mean, you can get them for prospects. Yeah, but this is like I said with Polonko, I wanted him back, but he is not one of those whatever it takes kind of players. Brennavan Donovan is also in that category. I think Brenivan Donovan is a heck of a transition from Polonco. I think that's a nice little replacement for him and a younger player who's got a better health history than what Polonko had and might be better. He might be better the next couple of years than what Polonko would have been. But we and I am willing to give a good prospect or two. But it's not going to be any of our great prospects. So whatever whatever gum flapping is going on on social media, it has to be the most inaccurate reporting that I've ever seen in an off season. Yeah, it has to be. And if it's not, then man, there's some people that have lost their brains over their evaluation of Brendan Donovan.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: I'm very interested now to see how this plays out, because if the Mariners do trade for him and kind of don't give up much and it's like oh, hey, like guys, that's what it was always the value of him was always going to be. Or if the Mariners do overpay or they don't and someone else overpays for them, and it's like, oh, I guess that's how much he was actually valued by multiple people. It's like, I'll sum up the Brendan Donovan situation with this, and it's just a direct quote from my guy, Tidening insolves he does locked on maritors with me.
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Speaker 3: It's compared I read this, yes, and I don't like a lot of things on the social media. I came very close tied to liking this.
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Speaker 2: Yes, very close.
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Speaker 4: And it takes a lot for Chuck to like things on social so social media, but.
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Speaker 2: I can tell you in my format audio, I like it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I'll just read it out loud. So this is comparing when Bryce Miller was compared to Jacob deGrom and it's all the value that we were just talking about. Bryce Miller is a super two R one pitcher with middle of the rotation upside and a full season of that level of production already. Who struggles this year can be directly directly linked to a nagging forum injury, and despite not being one hundred percent, he turned the corner to perform well in October. He was probably the Marriag's best starting pitcher in October. Cheap club controlled high upside and playoff success. The stuffed teams fall over themselves for in today's game. Compare that to Brendan Donovan, good, not great, one time all star, perennial two and a half to three war position player and only has two years left. The values just don't align. Acquiring three bites at the apple of Randy rose Arena a better hitter than Donovan cost the Mariners a pair of fringe top one hundred prospects at the time. That's roughly what Donovan should be worth, because that's what the market says, acknowledging that isn't true, reading a player as something he's not. Should the Cardinals ask for Miller or better, for seemingly the best MLB trade chip they're willing to part with. Sure, are they going to get that? Absolutely the bleep not.
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Speaker 3: That's right.
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 3: The only thing, the only issue that I have because I think that's I think that's nearly dead on. The only issue with it is I think the Bryce Miller's upside is higher than middle of the road. Okay, I mean Bryce Miller was not just the Mariner's best pitcher in the second half of twenty twenty four. And that's comparing him again, some really great pitching that year.
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Speaker 2: If you're over was it like very very elite last year.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was as good as anybody in the sport in the second half of twenty twenty four. Ty's right. The only reason he struggled in twenty twenty five was because of the injuries, and when he was healthy by the end of the year, you wanted him on the mound more than anybody else in the organization. So Bryce Miller, I think has an even higher upside than middle of the rotation. I think that's his floor is middle of the rotation. I think his upside is to be an ace of somewhere. I think that's the upside where he reaches it. Yeah, yeah, whether he reaches it, I'm not going to predict that, sure, but I do believe that that is his upside. He's got that Brian wu top of a level fastball that for whatever reason, hitters can't catch up with because of the late action.
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Speaker 4: So yeah, I just there's just no chance, Like the values just aren't aligning, And I agree with you. The the issue isn't that these Cardinals fan fictions are coming out like people come up with weird trades all the time.
00:17:36
Speaker 2: It's that reputable people.
00:17:38
Speaker 3: Right, are like giving them credence exactly, credibility exactly. So to me, it's just a runaway fan exercise, Cardinals overvaluing their players. And I'm sure that there are Mariner fans that I don't want to see their trades. Ye do the same thing on the other side. But what I am witnessing, what I'm seeing with my eyeball, are Mariner media members being very reasonable with their disputes over this and whatever websites, whatever level of credibility these Cardinals websites slash fan sites have, they're just ignorant. Yeah, I mean, that's all I can say. And ignorant is not stupid. Ignorant just means you just don't know enough to understand what you're talking about. I'm a reasonably intelligent person, but when it comes to fixing automobiles, I'm ignorant. Yeah, I don't even know where to begin if my car broke down on the side of the road. And that's what these Cardinal fan websites are, Like Brandon Donovan has fallen fallen apart on the side of the road, and you think that you've got something that you can enter into the you know, Daytona five hundred apparently. So yes, I think we've I think we've made our point.
00:18:52
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, But there was another kind of smaller marin remove that happened in the last few days. And Andrew Kisner has signed a one year, one million dollar deal to seemingly be the Mariner's backup catcher. Now, there is some consternation as to you know, if they're just giving him a million bucks, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's their backup catcher.
00:19:15
Speaker 2: No matter what it's like.
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Speaker 4: That's a very reasonable like, hey, this is just kind of a tryout situation. Hopefully you get someone else in and maybe have some sort of competition. But is he the backup catcher in your eyes for twenty twenty six?
00:19:30
Speaker 2: I don't know that.
00:19:31
Speaker 3: I think though, what I do, what I think the story here is is that philosophically, the organization has decided we're gonna go straight backup catcher, like, okay, backup catchure this, yeah exactly. I mean Andrew Kiss. When I was a kid, my dad he would handmake all of our stuff, Like we had a little basketball court in our backyard. He made it. Yeah, okay, it's awesome. I didn't have a you didn't have people come in and may get it's awesome. We had an above ground pool. He made it.
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Speaker 2: That's awesome.
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Speaker 3: So that's my So when he couldn't be around and he wanted me to practice my pitching, he made this thing called a pitchback for me. And it was just some two by fours and then there was one across the top and then he strung a net and that was held tight so I would throw into it and it would bounce back to me so I didn't have to keep going to get it. So he called it a pitch back. Andrew Kissner is a pitchback with feet and shin guards. Yeah, that's all he is. So philosophically, after sort of toying with maybe two three catchers on the roster, and then we can move them around and Mitch Garver can be our full time DH, and when he's not dhing or at least a very minimum against lefties, he's the DH. And then when cal Rawley needs a day off hill DH. This is very clear, I mean. And then Harry Ford can we eat him a new position? Maybe we can have all three guys if Ford can play second base when he's not catching or DH. So we've gone through these gym plastics the last three years at who's going to back up Cal Rawley and I don't I didn't disagree with the logic, but this is just far more streamlined. This is the organization saying we're going to have a classic backup catcher and we're not going to have a classic DH because Cal's obviously going to be given his one out of every five or six days off from behind the plate, and then he's obviously going to DH on that other day with probably a total of five days off for the entire season, and our injury of course, you have barring injury, and so you obviously are not going to bench your sixty home run hitter hitting catcher from the previous year. So what we're going to have is a DH. You can't get that aircraft carrier Kyle Schwarber. He's going to D eight Nelson Cruz. So yeah, Nelson Cruz. So what you are going to get is that DH could be a Brendan Donovan could be you know, somebody, Geno Gino Suarez might be the full time DH. And then when Cal DH is he's your third baseman and Williamson is coming off the bench and he's your defensive replacement late in the game. So that's to me, it just philosophically screams, we're gonna have a classic backup catcher for the first time since Sebbi Zavalla. Uh. And then we're also going to have a DH that is not conventional and needs to be hanging out with Perry Hill when it comes to h spring Train.
00:22:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, mentioning seb Zavala and Gino Suarez and the same. You know, point man, you're just bringing back horror stories.
00:22:39
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:22:40
Speaker 3: That is true.
00:22:41
Speaker 4: So this kind of I think most people are drawing the conclusion that Mitch Garver's not coming back. Do you draw the same conclusion after this?
00:22:50
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure. And I don't think he was ever coming back. I don't think so either, And I think it was Mitch. I don't know how Mitch Garver would want to come back, you know, if he had such a bad experience with the fans that they were giving death threats, and then his second year he shows up and he's Mopie and he won't talk to anybody but his teammates, and he kept that up the entire year, Like, why would you even want to live that way. So, I mean, I think he liked being a Maron right, being on this his teammates, Yes, and I think that they liked him and and so, but that's where it ends. There's more to it than that. There's more to it to life. You know, he's he's got a year or two left. I'm sure if he gets another chance, go to someplace you actually want to be, you know, don't come back here. Yeah. So he might have driven that, and or they might have said one year, one million, if you want to be on the team, we'll give it to you.
00:23:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's I can get a couple more.
00:23:44
Speaker 3: Let's see if I can get a little bit more.
00:23:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, And honestly he probably could. I think he's a better backup option. If you're comparing the two, he's a better option than Andrew Kisner is right. You're looking at a five ninety eight ohps last year in eighty eight play appearances. He cannot No, he cannot hit. Okay, you're in twenty twenty three where he hit seven to twelve ops but a two eighty eight on base like it's just yeah, No, he's not hitter. He's a straight up backup catcher, and I love your comparison of the pitch back with legs.
00:24:11
Speaker 2: Yes, because that's exactly what he is.
00:24:14
Speaker 4: So hopefully he can, you know, the one every five or six days that he's scheduled to play, just have a good relationship with the starting pitcher. Uh, don't care if you're a hole in the lineup that's it's once every five or six days. And then maybe you're an offensive substitutional.
00:24:29
Speaker 3: And it's also somebody that's just like understands, I'm backing up the best catcher in the world and I'm not gonna squawk about playing time. You know, that's part of it too. I know my role and I'm gonna help cal Rawley deal with the pitchers, and that's my primary objective.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: Yep, completely agree.
00:24:46
Speaker 3: All right, Well, coming up next, because we are simulcasting today our podcast with the radio product to hear this episode of Stove. We will continue to share merriment with you this holiday season, and we will also get into whether or not there's a candidate within the House of the Mariners that's worthy of one of those early extensions. It's Anders and Chuck the Stove simulcast on KJR.
00:25:19
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the simulcast Stove with Chuck Powell and Anderson Hurst on Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFMA. Last segment, we talked about Polanco and Kisner, kind of the reacting to the news Polanka moving on Kisner coming in to be seemingly the backup catcher. But I want to kind of go into this speculation in the area of the speculation of the episode today.
00:25:44
Speaker 3: So anybody they got into sports talk radio that doesn't love rumors, innuendo, and speculation, they just didn't get what works around here.
00:25:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're in the wrong business, that's right, like that stuff. So I only deal with fact, sir.
00:25:57
Speaker 3: Well, then maybe you should work of the you know, let work for the local newspapers.
00:26:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, or you know, go be an engineer. Yeah there, right, math teacher.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's very right and wrong with that.
00:26:11
Speaker 3: So I speculate that three plus five equals fourteen and I'm going to defend it. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, next sports So my big question, I think we've talked almost our entire catalog of this seasons of the Stove podcast has been kind of around the infield, uh, and then a little bit backup catcher here and there.
00:26:37
Speaker 2: But there is.
00:26:38
Speaker 4: Some thought that the Mariners have an option to upgrade in the corner outfield positions. I'm going to start with right field because I think that's the biggest question. How do you feel about the right field position as of right now seemingly being Victor Robos and Dom Canzone in a platoon situation.
00:26:57
Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, it's a it's an interesting pairing because I think Dom had a fine year this year. Yeh, and it was and we saw some advancement from a hitting pursuit.
00:27:09
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, he hit lefties.
00:27:11
Speaker 3: This year, which he's never done before. He had for an average this year, which he's never done before, and that's actually a pretty I mean, if if what I hear about the instruction of Major League Baseball hitting instructor is always like, we got to make you a good hitter first, and you have enough power that the power then once you become a great hitter or at least a good hitter, then you're going to get the power on the backside. Don't try to be a good power hitter right before you are a hitter. And so maybe that's the season that we had from Dom Canzone. I mean, if that if he is on that path he might end up being a really good player, which based on what I felt about dom Canzone just a couple of years ago, I didn't see that in the car.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: I did not either, and then Rob a man.
00:28:01
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't have a conversation with him without talking about twenty twenty four and how sensational he was for us. And then in twenty twenty five we were robbed to see if he could repeat it, yeah, because of that major injury that he suffered at the beginning of the year. So I think that I'm the analysis is really incomplete on Victor Roblaze, and I think that it's very interesting when it comes to don Canzone. If we start the season with those two guys in right field, and I don't know if it has to be a straight up platoon or not, but I feel like we don't have to worry about it. I think one of the two of those guys is going to work.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: Out, yeah, and maybe both yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker 4: And I think there's other spots, obviously in field being one of them where it makes more sense to poor resources into upgrade right I feel like I don't see it as a whole no, okay, because there are some even on our station that think right field as a major hole, don't. I don't necessarily feel that way. I think Robos can bounce back. Like you said, we never really saw the full healthy like they're all season like that. We saw him in twenty twenty four. Now, I will say the expected stats definitely look different than the outcome stats for Victor Robos in twenty twenty four, saying, meaning it looks like a lot of luck was involved, and that happens in baseball. You have seasons where, well, there's no way he is that good, right, So he's not an eight to fourteen OPS guy, you know, but he's he's also not a six to eleven OPS guy, which is what he was in twenty twenty five. So if you're giving us a seven hundred ops with plus defense, very plus defense. Made one of the plays of the year in right field. I think it's up there, at least the regular season. It was the play of the year in that Astro series, clinching that win. Man, that was one of the most excited I've ever been. Yeah, and that's valuable to have because Tom isn't the greatest of He's good, he's a good arm, but he's a little bit of a liability with Range.
00:30:05
Speaker 2: Just I don't know.
00:30:06
Speaker 4: He's not a black hole or anything like that, but he's not a plus defender and Vicar Roplas is, So I don't know.
00:30:12
Speaker 3: I look at it as two bikes of the apple, sure, and I don't I think it's foolhardy to think.
00:30:18
Speaker 2: That both guys are going to be really good.
00:30:20
Speaker 3: But I think if either one of them is good, then you're fine. And right field, I mean, we don't have to have greatness at every single position. And I think out of the two of them, one of them I think has a shot, has a good shot at having a good year. You're just playing the percentages there. And as I said before, since Ken Zone hits lefties and Rode Blazers hit righty's in the past, it's not like you're dealing with a platoon like if one of them fails, like, oh yeah he's he's fine, but we got to find somebody else to fill there. No, if rode Blaze is as good as he was in twenty twenty four, he can play every day and we're fine. If kan Zone is just as good as he was in twenty twenty five, I'm fine. With that. And look, we can't just discount Luke Rayley here, No, we can't. He was awful this past season, but he was really good the previous year. It's not like he's thirty two years Yeah, he's not like he's thirty five. I mean, I give him a puncher's chance to be good again this year. He had a major injury. At the beginning of the year, he had a baby. We don't know if that baby was klicky. We have no idea. Sure, you know, his wide may have had postpartum depression, who knows, and it could have been distracted. He just never got in rhythm. And something tells me Luke Rayley needs to be in rhythm to be an effective baseball player. So between those three guys, it's certainly not a hole. It certainly can be upgraded when the time comes. But I'm not looking for right fielders. I'm not sitting there researching right fielders because I don't think we.
00:31:51
Speaker 2: Have to a you're not in the Kyle Tucker sweepstakes.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: Well, love to have Kyle Tucker too, but again, we know we're not Kyle Tucker people.
00:32:03
Speaker 2: I love watching him play baseball though.
00:32:05
Speaker 4: Okay, now, an interesting conversation with left field, because I think Randya Roserena once again had a good year last year, seemingly kind of fixed a little bit of his defensive woes. Uh still was a seven to sixty ops guy. During the middle of the year, he was really hot. It seemed like he'd kind of broken out a little bit, and the kind of got colder again towards the end of the year into October a little bit as well, got colder A bad time, Yeah, very bad time. It's the last year before he becomes a free agent. If you were looking to move him and possibly move on, you just talked about the kind of tons of options you have at right field. Maybe you move one of those into left and you could kind of get something in return for a Randy Roseraina trade. I don't know how you feel about Randy coming into twenty twenty six.
00:32:54
Speaker 3: Uh.
00:32:55
Speaker 2: There's also a lot of people who really.
00:32:56
Speaker 4: Don't like him playing defense out there too, So maybe he's your DH and you find a left field I don't know, Like there's there's a couple of different ways that this can go about, other than just slotting him in as your every day left fielder.
00:33:06
Speaker 3: I'll try to be quick on this game. I don't like him enough to extend him. I like him enough not to trade him. And even if he walks at the end of the year, fine, Okay, this isn't like Sho Hao Tan. Yeah, and you didn't get anything for him. You know, it frees up money and you can use that next year to replace him. And so I don't like him, but I think that he is. He did win me over. I didn't have the same frustrations with him last year. Of course, I'm already acknowledging that he has defensive limitations and most of it is focused related. Yeah it is, but he he did not do nearly the number of annoying things last year as he did when he was first a Mariner. And it sounds like they really like him. That was a problem in Tampa. They didn't like him. The players his teammates didn't like him all that much, or at least some of them did.
00:33:55
Speaker 2: That isn't the case here that I don't don't feel like.
00:33:57
Speaker 3: That's the case here. So I think that I want Randy or Rosarina to be our left fielder, and I don't see any reason that we should be considering other options right right now.
00:34:10
Speaker 2: So you're slotting them in every day left field, every day left field?
00:34:13
Speaker 3: Cool?
00:34:13
Speaker 4: All right, I'm good at that too, to be honest, that's I just wanted to bring it up because I know there has some.
00:34:17
Speaker 3: I don't want him to lead off again. Yeah, I agree with that. It was a nice idea. It provided a little bit of a spark, but I think more than anything, that's what put him in the hole.
00:34:25
Speaker 2: I agree that. So no more leading off, No more leading off for Randy.
00:34:28
Speaker 3: I like that.
00:34:28
Speaker 4: I like that a lot. All right, Coming up next world, do one Christmas wish. We're gonna get Chuck Powells and possibly in her shirts as well. So you're listening to the simulcast of the Stove podcast on sports Radio. It really does Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.
00:34:49
Speaker 3: All right, it's a simulcast today. So we have a defined third segment here and final segments before we get into the holidays. And since we are at the holidays, anders here on. Oh, certainly we've got to launch a Christmas wish for this off season. I mean we've already gotten one, granted, Josh Naylor is coming back, and it turns out at a smoking rate.
00:35:10
Speaker 2: We're getting a little greedy here. You ask it for more, So what else?
00:35:14
Speaker 3: Give me? Give me one of the If it's the only thing that they get done the rest of the off season, it will still make the off season. What do you think.
00:35:23
Speaker 4: I'm kind of deciding between two things, but I'm gonna go for kind of more of a realistic ask.
00:35:28
Speaker 2: And I'm just gonna say it.
00:35:30
Speaker 4: Kyle Tucker, No, I was gonna say, tell Marte. But I don't think it's unreasonable. It's not completely unreasonable, but I still don't think it's gonna happen. But I'm gonna say, give me an every day DH, Give me an every day D. Like like when we say every day DH, like a DH that you feel good about hitting designated wait for it hit her because I think.
00:35:48
Speaker 3: He said earlier, and he's being able to play a position too. I guess he just can't get a hitter. Yeah, otherwise he's gonna sit every fifth day.
00:35:54
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not talking about the Nelson cruise at the end of his career sort of DH, right, but like someone who like genoswas absolutely can't can't field, but like Gino Suaz is a perfect example, I'm not saying it has to be him, but like, that's a great, great idea. Yeah, having him be mostly d H, but then you can slot in Ben Williamson at third, Cole Young at second. I feel better about that infield than I did about last year's in field defensively, and I'm fine with having Randy as your everyday left fielder and some combination of role Bisraeli and can Zone is your right field.
00:36:29
Speaker 2: Just give me.
00:36:30
Speaker 4: You need to upgrade on the offensive side. If you're going to slot in Williamson and Young as your second and third basement, you need a really good hitter to have be your most days DH.
00:36:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, I'll just play off of that. So I got a Christmas wish in a moment. But I will just say that, like Brandon Donovan the conversation from earlier, if we're not overpaying for him, I like that as a DH option who can play second or third for you and even play a little bit of outfield. I mean, we've talked about corner outfielders this episode. I don't think he could play right field, but he could play left field. He's done that in the past.
00:37:06
Speaker 2: Randy could be your DH right but that's just the thing.
00:37:09
Speaker 3: This is why you don't overpay for Brenda Donod because there are other options. I mean, it's they're talking like C. J. Abrams would cost less than Brendan Donovan, which is wild. Where's that line that I'll go stand down, I'll race to that.
00:37:21
Speaker 2: Line, the Crams line.
00:37:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the only person that would be faster than me is CJ.
00:37:26
Speaker 2: Abrams.
00:37:27
Speaker 3: That's good. I take Brandon Lowe over him. They're not talking about Brandon low being. I mean Brandon Lowe's thirty home run hitter who plays second base, and he can be your DA.
00:37:40
Speaker 2: He can hit lefties better than Donovan can.
00:37:42
Speaker 3: He can hit well enough that he can be the designated hitter and you don't even have to find playing time defensively for him if you don't want to, even though you can and can be your emergency Cole Young didn't work out second basement for you this year. So I mean, I mean, I think Brenda dan be a nice asset, but I there are other options out there. We are really early in this offseason process to be worrying about that. I'm going to do it my Christmas wish list. It seems like I'm the only person in Seattle that wants to do this. I want Mura Kami.
00:38:16
Speaker 4: Oh okay, you're still on the Mura Kami traid there has It's been really quiet with him.
00:38:21
Speaker 2: I am wildly like it won't be much longer.
00:38:25
Speaker 3: I mean, we are recording this on December seventeenth. He has to decide on December twenty second, so we have five days to know what's going on.
00:38:33
Speaker 2: I don't.
00:38:33
Speaker 3: I'm not sitting here in like Hugh Millen and down in my cave watching game film of Mura Kami, the only thing I've really seen or highlights on Murakami. But when's the last guy they described as a Japanese phenom that didn't work out. I'm not expecting to be show a Otani, sure, but even if he's Hideki Matsui, you know, and we say a Suzuki, and we and say a Suzuki, and yet they're saying he's much greater of an ups and he's younger, and he's younger, So if he's our third baseman, and if that price is really coming down, I don't know. I'm just you know, I've always said Christmas is not about practicality. I might need socks, but I don't want them. I don't want you to get too.
00:39:21
Speaker 2: I can buy my own socks, buy me the new video game, yeah, buy me.
00:39:24
Speaker 3: The thing that I won't pay for myself because I think it's silly, but let's face it, I want it. Yeah, exactly, And to me, that's a nice fat Murakami under my Christmas tree on December twenty second. I want to roll the dice on this guy. I want the potential of cal Raleigh and Murakami both hitting fifty homers in a season back to back for the next five years.
00:39:48
Speaker 4: Oh I, I've definitely warmed up to that idea, to be completely honest, especially the more we talk about the exactly that's what I was gonna say. Especially we talked about the infield, and you know, the questions about him defensively fine, slot in Ben Williams and at third, have HIMDH like we already got Josh Nayler at first. You feel fine about that, Like, sign me up for that right now. I don't care if there's he strikes out too much, guys.
00:40:14
Speaker 2: Like who cares? Yeah, it's the game now, and gives.
00:40:20
Speaker 3: Me fifty homers. He can strike out two and fifty times.
00:40:22
Speaker 4: Absolutely, hell, if he gives me forty homers, I'd be fine with that, like, come on, let's go. But yeah, it just seems like it's a it's I don't want to say, can't miss. But the floor is a lot higher than a lot of people are giving him credit for.
00:40:36
Speaker 3: I would think, I don't know that. I don't know that, but I would think, but man, there does some seem to be an epidemic of cold feet when it comes to signing this guy. And so maybe there are very viable reasons for that. And oftentimes, especially in the baseball world, the signings and the trades you don't make are the best ones for the organization. So maybe I'm foolish. Maybe Jerry and Justin who listened to Stove every week.
00:41:02
Speaker 2: They do Jock, don't make me have to call you.
00:41:06
Speaker 3: Murakami stinks. Maybe that's the true story behind it all, and baseball knows that he's going to absolutely fail at the major league level. But my goodness, you show me in eighty grade from a Japanese phenom who's already hit fifty six home runs and a season over in Japan and already knows how to hit off speed stuff. Because that's all they threw there for most of for most of their existence. I want to roll the dice on them. I want an impractical gift under my tree for this Mariners offseason. I want it to be Munataki Murakami. Yeah.
00:41:41
Speaker 4: Again, it's weird, how like everything has gone quiet with him. I would have thought there had been like, all right, everyone's lining up to see who he's gonna sign for. I've seen nothing like. It's weird.
00:41:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want to box a fudge that's fair. Happy Christmas, Andrews Hurst, it's been great doing this this podcast with you, and we'll keep on flying. Yeah.
00:42:00
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's great to be with you guys on holidays. Thanks you, Thank you for letting us into your ears during this holiday season. As you're listening to The Stove Podcast with Chuck Powell and Anderson Hurst
Speaker 1: Stove.
00:00:02
Speaker 2: What a kind of name is that? Well, welcome to another edition.
00:00:05
Speaker 3: It is Chuck Powell and Anders Hurst Stove, our Mariners off season podcast, the latest episode weekly discussion between Anders and myself and this week we've had days since a major move here in the off season, which we'll dive into this this hour with you here on stove. Happy holidays too.
00:00:27
Speaker 2: Thanks Chuck, appreciate you know.
00:00:29
Speaker 4: Another episode right by the fire we fire up the are we doing gas stove? Are we doing you know, electric stove? Chuck wood all morning shofwood. We're not gonna waste that.
00:00:41
Speaker 3: Then. Also, please help yourself to the dog get the good stuff.
00:00:46
Speaker 2: So you're a nog fannog? Would you put anything in it?
00:00:50
Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, okay, I mean I will just drink just the ny Weil stuff because I think it's really good. But obviously it's better with you know Uncle John's coughs here. Yes, yes it is, It absolutely is. Yeah. So but I don't even I weep for people that don't like nog, just like I weep for people that don't like off season baseball discussions. So true, Yeah, you're both really missing it. Yeah, yeah, I feel sorry for you. Were probably weren't raised.
00:01:16
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you're you're You probably don't have a great relationship with your parents. If you don't like the Stove podcast, all right, you've got naggy issues. But uh, you know, I there has been a move, and I honestly like peek behind the curtain. I was texting you about what we're gonna chat about today and I completely forgot that this had happened since our last episode. Or hey, Polanco signs with the Mets. Let's dive right into it here. Happy holidays to everyone, and happy holidays to the Mets because they got their new wait for it, first basement.
00:01:48
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, excuse me, Yeah, uh well, I don't know. I mean, you're getting a bat, that's what you're going. Sure you would be bringing back. I mean, I don't think anybody's cold infusing Horey Polanco for a defensive wizard. No, certainly not at this stage of his career, you know. I mean I can go back to three seasons ago of Stove. I wanted Ora Polanco in the Mariner uniform for a number of years before we even got in. We really pushed hard for him the first year that you and I did the podcast together, and certainly there was the rough. There was enthusiastic reaction when we did acquire him from the Twins, and then the rough first year, and then the terrific second year, and then the outstanding postseason.
00:02:38
Speaker 4: He owns you, Derek Scooble, two years forty is the number. Yes, So I don't think I.
00:02:45
Speaker 3: Have to tell you or anybody that listens to the Stove podcast how much I like Horror Polonco. I do. And I wanted him back this year, and I know the Mariners did, and I really think Jorge did. Yeah, but he's just not a spend whatever it takes kind of player. And I get totally that the organization probably entered this offseason thinking two years twenty five. If we're honest with ourselves, we might have to bump that to twenty eight. I mean, once you're getting to forty, I realized there's no salary cap in this sport, and there are people that just spend. What are you gonna do with it?
00:03:25
Speaker 2: It's not your money.
00:03:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, But on the other hand, obviously they operate with some sort of soft payroll, some sort of castriction that they give themselves. And if you're spending overspending, and it would that's an overspend by the Mets.
00:03:42
Speaker 2: They can do that because they're dumb.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: With a lot of money, which is a dangerous combination and most in society. But I mean, obviously we're operating with restrictions financially here, and if they're self imposed, they're self imposed. But we're still rating by them. And I don't want that money that was set aside, all of it going to whor Hete Polonco when there are probably a couple more moves that we need to make this offseason. So I totally get it that they're moving on from Polanco at that price, and I would have done the same thing.
00:04:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's weird because you and I were kind of, you know, kind of iffy on not necessarily what we thought would be the final number. It would be the years, it would be if he wanted three plus years, which I thought I thought that would be the hang up, not the actual number, but him getting to forty million on just two years. If you're the Mets, like and like we just talked about, it's a different perspective because you don't really have that same restriction on how much you're spending, right, you need to fill the hole. You lost Peter Alonzo, you lost Edwin Diaz. This is all within one week. They needed to get something back, So that's an obvious overpay. But I still would see him being pretty ductive. And I just don't know how good he is going to be at first base, because that's just that that's a weird.
00:05:05
Speaker 3: One to me.
00:05:06
Speaker 4: But I yeah, I would not have brought him back. From the Mariner's perspective, two years, two years forty not matching that. Go enjoy yourself, thank you for your year that.
00:05:17
Speaker 3: You had here. And even even if you got him at your price, even if you got him at let's say two years twenty five million, which is kind of the number that was originally thrown out, that might and yet and this market has been crazy robust. I mean, Hasan Kim got a twenty million dollars a year salth right now, just for one year. But he's coming off a terrible year, unhealthy and unproductive. Yes, so the market's kind of crazy right now. I mean, teams are spending money, and I'm sure that the Mariners they usually are yep, are caught off guard by market rate and and so, but even if you started to two years even if you got him at two years twenty four or twenty five, like we originally started speculating, you're taking on risk. He's a thirty two year old about to be thirty three year old player that really doesn't have a position. I mean he's not I mean he can play the field for you second, maybe even third, as I've suggested, if he had a full spring training to work on that healthy and somebody that has a litany of injuries as well. I mean, he's just a person that you say, I want you back, and I want you back at this figure, and I'm nearly not gonna bump much beyond that. And if it's really so important to Hoare Polanco's of the world to have a little bit more money, to leave a great situation where you love the clubhouse, You've got a great team. If it's really that important for you to have the most money that you can get, then to me, it's let me help you pack.
00:06:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks, Ray, You've been great.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: We do appreciate what you put together this past year. We really like you. But if that's what's most important to you, maybe we don't even want you on the team.
00:07:02
Speaker 4: So are we coming to the reality that second and third base will both be filled internally, or are there pivot options? The Mariners are still heavily linked to the Brendan Donovan deal with Saint Louis. I know we talked about this earlier, but this update kind of gives a new perspective on it. They no longer have the Jorge Polonco kind of fallback options. So what's the pivot for the Mariners in this situation?
00:07:25
Speaker 3: Well, I've said before I think Cole Young's our second basement. But I do believe there's going to be a move. I think that you can rest assured that that's going to happen. And whether that's DH or third or both, I think there's a chance that both of them. Let's start with Donovan, okay, and I like him as an asset. I mean we've talked about this on numerous episodes. If he was a Mariner next year, I'm happy to have Mariners. But just like with Polonko, I'm not the price. There's going to be a price here trade value wise that does not match up with what he's what the Cardinals are rumored to be seeking. The only thing I can chalk this up to anders is that there are Major League Baseball insiders who, for whatever reason, are reading cardinal fan websites, people without really knowledge of how it works, who are concocting stupid fan trades, and insiders like John Paul Morosi and others are running with it because there is no way Brendan Donovan is worth what is being rumored out there in terms of a trade with the Mariners. I'm gonna tell you this right now. If the Mariners and they're not going to do it, traded Cold Emerson for Brendan Donovan, I will start rooting for the Astros.
00:08:44
Speaker 2: My gosh, just on principle, on principle.
00:08:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're that dumb that you're gonna cave just to have some squatty middle endfielder with no power and no speed, that you're gonna give up.
00:08:59
Speaker 2: Anything with the long term potential.
00:09:02
Speaker 3: Of greatness, you don't know what you're doing, and I'm not gonna invest anything more in you. I mean, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, And I'm saying that for emphasis. You know, maybe I'll do the ABC's of the Astros next year on Chuck and Buck. I'm just saying this is this you want to sign Polanco with that money. I get it. You if you want Donovan, I get it. But you do not give up anything with the potential to be great. You want to give up a couple good prospects, fine, but we're we're gonna put a ring about Montes, and we're gonna put a ring around Emerson, and we're gonna put a ring around Ryan Sloan. And those guys will only be moved if the last name is Sodo.
00:09:44
Speaker 2: Yeah or yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker 3: You know, we're not moving it for the Donovans of the world, right, So let's just let's just hammer that down on this episode of Stove.
00:09:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I completely agree with you. And we've talked about this before with the Harry Forge, Like there are so many people who kind of belittle the prospect hoarders and like, you don't know what they're gonna turn into. You gotta trade it for production. Well, let's be honest when you when you trade prospects, like middling sort of value is a little what they kind of are right now, You're not going to get a superstar player by trading a prospect. That's just not how it works. So the best chance of you getting another superstar player is to hold on in those prospects and let them develop, and that I think is the best chance for the Mariners to take that next step up in terms of their offense, at least with the cold Emersons and the Last Monteses of the world. But for better or for worse, I am heavily involved in Mariner's online interactions.
00:10:38
Speaker 2: Uh.
00:10:39
Speaker 4: And the newest thing is Cardinals online interactions because they have even included the Bryce Millers and Brian Wolves in the trade. It's insane for Brendan donnald, it's insane.
00:10:52
Speaker 3: There's again, how's Houston looking this time of year? Yeah, because if anything like that happens, if the Mariners are that sold on some mulleted pudgy infield who can't run or hit for power, I mean, he's got a hit tool. He's got a hit tool to him. Yeah, he's got a hit What else could I say about him tool? And that's it. Yeah, even that he's probably a platoon player, Yeah he's. I mean he's he didn't hit lefties.
00:11:23
Speaker 2: Last year, No he's not. Yeah, kind of like you.
00:11:27
Speaker 4: I mean he's kind of a utility guy too, doesn't really have one major position and can play some left field, which I think is valuable. I think people kind of throw the name utility man as if, oh, it's like Dylan Moore, you don't really have a position, but you kind of are okay at all of them. No, there's some value in being able to play multiple positions, especially if you're a plus bat, which at this point he's a plus bat. But he's not like an elite bat or anything like that. He has a hit tool. That's a great way to put it.
00:11:51
Speaker 2: But I don't.
00:11:53
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I grew up in Saint Louis, and I know how Cardinal fans work. Cardinal fans' favorite players are jose A Kendo and Joe mckewing and you know, a little scrappy guys David eck Stein's they got the most out of their ability, you know, And so I get why they have overvalued him. But for people to be acknowledging it that are supposed to know better, Yeah, like this is the market. If that's the market, then I don't understand the market. And if the Mariners dared trade what is being rumored out there that the Cardinals are asking for again, I'm done. I'm not investing any more faith in this front office. That's how strongly I feel.
00:12:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they won't do it. Like let's be like, we're not saying that it's going to happen. And that's how we feel right now. That is how Chuck is so confident in that it won't happen. Yeah, that he's saying that guys like I can put this out there because I know it won't happen. But the newest thing that Mariners fans are just like what, there's one of the bigger, you know, online people for the Cardinals is like how a Mariner's fans view Bryce Miller and is a picture of Jacob deGrom warming up And it's like, what, No, it's.
00:13:05
Speaker 3: He's a lot closer to de Grom than Donovan is to Babe Ruth. And that's what you seem to be asking for in a trade, because what I would disagree with you on is you can get a superstar player for prospects. I mean we've seen it throughout history at the right time. I mean, you can get them for prospects. Yeah, but this is like I said with Polonko, I wanted him back, but he is not one of those whatever it takes kind of players. Brennavan Donovan is also in that category. I think Brenivan Donovan is a heck of a transition from Polonco. I think that's a nice little replacement for him and a younger player who's got a better health history than what Polonko had and might be better. He might be better the next couple of years than what Polonko would have been. But we and I am willing to give a good prospect or two. But it's not going to be any of our great prospects. So whatever whatever gum flapping is going on on social media, it has to be the most inaccurate reporting that I've ever seen in an off season. Yeah, it has to be. And if it's not, then man, there's some people that have lost their brains over their evaluation of Brendan Donovan.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:14:18
Speaker 4: I'm very interested now to see how this plays out, because if the Mariners do trade for him and kind of don't give up much and it's like oh, hey, like guys, that's what it was always the value of him was always going to be. Or if the Mariners do overpay or they don't and someone else overpays for them, and it's like, oh, I guess that's how much he was actually valued by multiple people. It's like, I'll sum up the Brendan Donovan situation with this, and it's just a direct quote from my guy, Tidening insolves he does locked on maritors with me.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: It's compared I read this, yes, and I don't like a lot of things on the social media. I came very close tied to liking this.
00:14:52
Speaker 2: Yes, very close.
00:14:53
Speaker 4: And it takes a lot for Chuck to like things on social so social media, but.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: I can tell you in my format audio, I like it.
00:15:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I'll just read it out loud. So this is comparing when Bryce Miller was compared to Jacob deGrom and it's all the value that we were just talking about. Bryce Miller is a super two R one pitcher with middle of the rotation upside and a full season of that level of production already. Who struggles this year can be directly directly linked to a nagging forum injury, and despite not being one hundred percent, he turned the corner to perform well in October. He was probably the Marriag's best starting pitcher in October. Cheap club controlled high upside and playoff success. The stuffed teams fall over themselves for in today's game. Compare that to Brendan Donovan, good, not great, one time all star, perennial two and a half to three war position player and only has two years left. The values just don't align. Acquiring three bites at the apple of Randy rose Arena a better hitter than Donovan cost the Mariners a pair of fringe top one hundred prospects at the time. That's roughly what Donovan should be worth, because that's what the market says, acknowledging that isn't true, reading a player as something he's not. Should the Cardinals ask for Miller or better, for seemingly the best MLB trade chip they're willing to part with. Sure, are they going to get that? Absolutely the bleep not.
00:16:12
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:16:13
Speaker 2: No.
00:16:14
Speaker 3: The only thing, the only issue that I have because I think that's I think that's nearly dead on. The only issue with it is I think the Bryce Miller's upside is higher than middle of the road. Okay, I mean Bryce Miller was not just the Mariner's best pitcher in the second half of twenty twenty four. And that's comparing him again, some really great pitching that year.
00:16:34
Speaker 2: If you're over was it like very very elite last year.
00:16:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was as good as anybody in the sport in the second half of twenty twenty four. Ty's right. The only reason he struggled in twenty twenty five was because of the injuries, and when he was healthy by the end of the year, you wanted him on the mound more than anybody else in the organization. So Bryce Miller, I think has an even higher upside than middle of the rotation. I think that's his floor is middle of the rotation. I think his upside is to be an ace of somewhere. I think that's the upside where he reaches it. Yeah, yeah, whether he reaches it, I'm not going to predict that, sure, but I do believe that that is his upside. He's got that Brian wu top of a level fastball that for whatever reason, hitters can't catch up with because of the late action.
00:17:23
Speaker 4: So yeah, I just there's just no chance, Like the values just aren't aligning, And I agree with you. The the issue isn't that these Cardinals fan fictions are coming out like people come up with weird trades all the time.
00:17:36
Speaker 2: It's that reputable people.
00:17:38
Speaker 3: Right, are like giving them credence exactly, credibility exactly. So to me, it's just a runaway fan exercise, Cardinals overvaluing their players. And I'm sure that there are Mariner fans that I don't want to see their trades. Ye do the same thing on the other side. But what I am witnessing, what I'm seeing with my eyeball, are Mariner media members being very reasonable with their disputes over this and whatever websites, whatever level of credibility these Cardinals websites slash fan sites have, they're just ignorant. Yeah, I mean, that's all I can say. And ignorant is not stupid. Ignorant just means you just don't know enough to understand what you're talking about. I'm a reasonably intelligent person, but when it comes to fixing automobiles, I'm ignorant. Yeah, I don't even know where to begin if my car broke down on the side of the road. And that's what these Cardinal fan websites are, Like Brandon Donovan has fallen fallen apart on the side of the road, and you think that you've got something that you can enter into the you know, Daytona five hundred apparently. So yes, I think we've I think we've made our point.
00:18:52
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, But there was another kind of smaller marin remove that happened in the last few days. And Andrew Kisner has signed a one year, one million dollar deal to seemingly be the Mariner's backup catcher. Now, there is some consternation as to you know, if they're just giving him a million bucks, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's their backup catcher.
00:19:15
Speaker 2: No matter what it's like.
00:19:17
Speaker 4: That's a very reasonable like, hey, this is just kind of a tryout situation. Hopefully you get someone else in and maybe have some sort of competition. But is he the backup catcher in your eyes for twenty twenty six?
00:19:30
Speaker 2: I don't know that.
00:19:31
Speaker 3: I think though, what I do, what I think the story here is is that philosophically, the organization has decided we're gonna go straight backup catcher, like, okay, backup catchure this, yeah exactly. I mean Andrew Kiss. When I was a kid, my dad he would handmake all of our stuff, Like we had a little basketball court in our backyard. He made it. Yeah, okay, it's awesome. I didn't have a you didn't have people come in and may get it's awesome. We had an above ground pool. He made it.
00:20:00
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
00:20:01
Speaker 3: So that's my So when he couldn't be around and he wanted me to practice my pitching, he made this thing called a pitchback for me. And it was just some two by fours and then there was one across the top and then he strung a net and that was held tight so I would throw into it and it would bounce back to me so I didn't have to keep going to get it. So he called it a pitch back. Andrew Kissner is a pitchback with feet and shin guards. Yeah, that's all he is. So philosophically, after sort of toying with maybe two three catchers on the roster, and then we can move them around and Mitch Garver can be our full time DH, and when he's not dhing or at least a very minimum against lefties, he's the DH. And then when cal Rawley needs a day off hill DH. This is very clear, I mean. And then Harry Ford can we eat him a new position? Maybe we can have all three guys if Ford can play second base when he's not catching or DH. So we've gone through these gym plastics the last three years at who's going to back up Cal Rawley and I don't I didn't disagree with the logic, but this is just far more streamlined. This is the organization saying we're going to have a classic backup catcher and we're not going to have a classic DH because Cal's obviously going to be given his one out of every five or six days off from behind the plate, and then he's obviously going to DH on that other day with probably a total of five days off for the entire season, and our injury of course, you have barring injury, and so you obviously are not going to bench your sixty home run hitter hitting catcher from the previous year. So what we're going to have is a DH. You can't get that aircraft carrier Kyle Schwarber. He's going to D eight Nelson Cruz. So yeah, Nelson Cruz. So what you are going to get is that DH could be a Brendan Donovan could be you know, somebody, Geno Gino Suarez might be the full time DH. And then when Cal DH is he's your third baseman and Williamson is coming off the bench and he's your defensive replacement late in the game. So that's to me, it just philosophically screams, we're gonna have a classic backup catcher for the first time since Sebbi Zavalla. Uh. And then we're also going to have a DH that is not conventional and needs to be hanging out with Perry Hill when it comes to h spring Train.
00:22:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, mentioning seb Zavala and Gino Suarez and the same. You know, point man, you're just bringing back horror stories.
00:22:39
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:22:40
Speaker 3: That is true.
00:22:41
Speaker 4: So this kind of I think most people are drawing the conclusion that Mitch Garver's not coming back. Do you draw the same conclusion after this?
00:22:50
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure. And I don't think he was ever coming back. I don't think so either, And I think it was Mitch. I don't know how Mitch Garver would want to come back, you know, if he had such a bad experience with the fans that they were giving death threats, and then his second year he shows up and he's Mopie and he won't talk to anybody but his teammates, and he kept that up the entire year, Like, why would you even want to live that way. So, I mean, I think he liked being a Maron right, being on this his teammates, Yes, and I think that they liked him and and so, but that's where it ends. There's more to it than that. There's more to it to life. You know, he's he's got a year or two left. I'm sure if he gets another chance, go to someplace you actually want to be, you know, don't come back here. Yeah. So he might have driven that, and or they might have said one year, one million, if you want to be on the team, we'll give it to you.
00:23:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's I can get a couple more.
00:23:44
Speaker 3: Let's see if I can get a little bit more.
00:23:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, And honestly he probably could. I think he's a better backup option. If you're comparing the two, he's a better option than Andrew Kisner is right. You're looking at a five ninety eight ohps last year in eighty eight play appearances. He cannot No, he cannot hit. Okay, you're in twenty twenty three where he hit seven to twelve ops but a two eighty eight on base like it's just yeah, No, he's not hitter. He's a straight up backup catcher, and I love your comparison of the pitch back with legs.
00:24:11
Speaker 2: Yes, because that's exactly what he is.
00:24:14
Speaker 4: So hopefully he can, you know, the one every five or six days that he's scheduled to play, just have a good relationship with the starting pitcher. Uh, don't care if you're a hole in the lineup that's it's once every five or six days. And then maybe you're an offensive substitutional.
00:24:29
Speaker 3: And it's also somebody that's just like understands, I'm backing up the best catcher in the world and I'm not gonna squawk about playing time. You know, that's part of it too. I know my role and I'm gonna help cal Rawley deal with the pitchers, and that's my primary objective.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: Yep, completely agree.
00:24:46
Speaker 3: All right, Well, coming up next, because we are simulcasting today our podcast with the radio product to hear this episode of Stove. We will continue to share merriment with you this holiday season, and we will also get into whether or not there's a candidate within the House of the Mariners that's worthy of one of those early extensions. It's Anders and Chuck the Stove simulcast on KJR.
00:25:19
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the simulcast Stove with Chuck Powell and Anderson Hurst on Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFMA. Last segment, we talked about Polanco and Kisner, kind of the reacting to the news Polanka moving on Kisner coming in to be seemingly the backup catcher. But I want to kind of go into this speculation in the area of the speculation of the episode today.
00:25:44
Speaker 3: So anybody they got into sports talk radio that doesn't love rumors, innuendo, and speculation, they just didn't get what works around here.
00:25:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're in the wrong business, that's right, like that stuff. So I only deal with fact, sir.
00:25:57
Speaker 3: Well, then maybe you should work of the you know, let work for the local newspapers.
00:26:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, or you know, go be an engineer. Yeah there, right, math teacher.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's very right and wrong with that.
00:26:11
Speaker 3: So I speculate that three plus five equals fourteen and I'm going to defend it. Yeah.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, next sports So my big question, I think we've talked almost our entire catalog of this seasons of the Stove podcast has been kind of around the infield, uh, and then a little bit backup catcher here and there.
00:26:37
Speaker 2: But there is.
00:26:38
Speaker 4: Some thought that the Mariners have an option to upgrade in the corner outfield positions. I'm going to start with right field because I think that's the biggest question. How do you feel about the right field position as of right now seemingly being Victor Robos and Dom Canzone in a platoon situation.
00:26:57
Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, it's a it's an interesting pairing because I think Dom had a fine year this year. Yeh, and it was and we saw some advancement from a hitting pursuit.
00:27:09
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, he hit lefties.
00:27:11
Speaker 3: This year, which he's never done before. He had for an average this year, which he's never done before, and that's actually a pretty I mean, if if what I hear about the instruction of Major League Baseball hitting instructor is always like, we got to make you a good hitter first, and you have enough power that the power then once you become a great hitter or at least a good hitter, then you're going to get the power on the backside. Don't try to be a good power hitter right before you are a hitter. And so maybe that's the season that we had from Dom Canzone. I mean, if that if he is on that path he might end up being a really good player, which based on what I felt about dom Canzone just a couple of years ago, I didn't see that in the car.
00:27:58
Speaker 2: I did not either, and then Rob a man.
00:28:01
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't have a conversation with him without talking about twenty twenty four and how sensational he was for us. And then in twenty twenty five we were robbed to see if he could repeat it, yeah, because of that major injury that he suffered at the beginning of the year. So I think that I'm the analysis is really incomplete on Victor Roblaze, and I think that it's very interesting when it comes to don Canzone. If we start the season with those two guys in right field, and I don't know if it has to be a straight up platoon or not, but I feel like we don't have to worry about it. I think one of the two of those guys is going to work.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: Out, yeah, and maybe both yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker 4: And I think there's other spots, obviously in field being one of them where it makes more sense to poor resources into upgrade right I feel like I don't see it as a whole no, okay, because there are some even on our station that think right field as a major hole, don't. I don't necessarily feel that way. I think Robos can bounce back. Like you said, we never really saw the full healthy like they're all season like that. We saw him in twenty twenty four. Now, I will say the expected stats definitely look different than the outcome stats for Victor Robos in twenty twenty four, saying, meaning it looks like a lot of luck was involved, and that happens in baseball. You have seasons where, well, there's no way he is that good, right, So he's not an eight to fourteen OPS guy, you know, but he's he's also not a six to eleven OPS guy, which is what he was in twenty twenty five. So if you're giving us a seven hundred ops with plus defense, very plus defense. Made one of the plays of the year in right field. I think it's up there, at least the regular season. It was the play of the year in that Astro series, clinching that win. Man, that was one of the most excited I've ever been. Yeah, and that's valuable to have because Tom isn't the greatest of He's good, he's a good arm, but he's a little bit of a liability with Range.
00:30:05
Speaker 2: Just I don't know.
00:30:06
Speaker 4: He's not a black hole or anything like that, but he's not a plus defender and Vicar Roplas is, So I don't know.
00:30:12
Speaker 3: I look at it as two bikes of the apple, sure, and I don't I think it's foolhardy to think.
00:30:18
Speaker 2: That both guys are going to be really good.
00:30:20
Speaker 3: But I think if either one of them is good, then you're fine. And right field, I mean, we don't have to have greatness at every single position. And I think out of the two of them, one of them I think has a shot, has a good shot at having a good year. You're just playing the percentages there. And as I said before, since Ken Zone hits lefties and Rode Blazers hit righty's in the past, it's not like you're dealing with a platoon like if one of them fails, like, oh yeah he's he's fine, but we got to find somebody else to fill there. No, if rode Blaze is as good as he was in twenty twenty four, he can play every day and we're fine. If kan Zone is just as good as he was in twenty twenty five, I'm fine. With that. And look, we can't just discount Luke Rayley here, No, we can't. He was awful this past season, but he was really good the previous year. It's not like he's thirty two years Yeah, he's not like he's thirty five. I mean, I give him a puncher's chance to be good again this year. He had a major injury. At the beginning of the year, he had a baby. We don't know if that baby was klicky. We have no idea. Sure, you know, his wide may have had postpartum depression, who knows, and it could have been distracted. He just never got in rhythm. And something tells me Luke Rayley needs to be in rhythm to be an effective baseball player. So between those three guys, it's certainly not a hole. It certainly can be upgraded when the time comes. But I'm not looking for right fielders. I'm not sitting there researching right fielders because I don't think we.
00:31:51
Speaker 2: Have to a you're not in the Kyle Tucker sweepstakes.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: Well, love to have Kyle Tucker too, but again, we know we're not Kyle Tucker people.
00:32:03
Speaker 2: I love watching him play baseball though.
00:32:05
Speaker 4: Okay, now, an interesting conversation with left field, because I think Randya Roserena once again had a good year last year, seemingly kind of fixed a little bit of his defensive woes. Uh still was a seven to sixty ops guy. During the middle of the year, he was really hot. It seemed like he'd kind of broken out a little bit, and the kind of got colder again towards the end of the year into October a little bit as well, got colder A bad time, Yeah, very bad time. It's the last year before he becomes a free agent. If you were looking to move him and possibly move on, you just talked about the kind of tons of options you have at right field. Maybe you move one of those into left and you could kind of get something in return for a Randy Roseraina trade. I don't know how you feel about Randy coming into twenty twenty six.
00:32:54
Speaker 3: Uh.
00:32:55
Speaker 2: There's also a lot of people who really.
00:32:56
Speaker 4: Don't like him playing defense out there too, So maybe he's your DH and you find a left field I don't know, Like there's there's a couple of different ways that this can go about, other than just slotting him in as your every day left fielder.
00:33:06
Speaker 3: I'll try to be quick on this game. I don't like him enough to extend him. I like him enough not to trade him. And even if he walks at the end of the year, fine, Okay, this isn't like Sho Hao Tan. Yeah, and you didn't get anything for him. You know, it frees up money and you can use that next year to replace him. And so I don't like him, but I think that he is. He did win me over. I didn't have the same frustrations with him last year. Of course, I'm already acknowledging that he has defensive limitations and most of it is focused related. Yeah it is, but he he did not do nearly the number of annoying things last year as he did when he was first a Mariner. And it sounds like they really like him. That was a problem in Tampa. They didn't like him. The players his teammates didn't like him all that much, or at least some of them did.
00:33:55
Speaker 2: That isn't the case here that I don't don't feel like.
00:33:57
Speaker 3: That's the case here. So I think that I want Randy or Rosarina to be our left fielder, and I don't see any reason that we should be considering other options right right now.
00:34:10
Speaker 2: So you're slotting them in every day left field, every day left field?
00:34:13
Speaker 3: Cool?
00:34:13
Speaker 4: All right, I'm good at that too, to be honest, that's I just wanted to bring it up because I know there has some.
00:34:17
Speaker 3: I don't want him to lead off again. Yeah, I agree with that. It was a nice idea. It provided a little bit of a spark, but I think more than anything, that's what put him in the hole.
00:34:25
Speaker 2: I agree that. So no more leading off, No more leading off for Randy.
00:34:28
Speaker 3: I like that.
00:34:28
Speaker 4: I like that a lot. All right, Coming up next world, do one Christmas wish. We're gonna get Chuck Powells and possibly in her shirts as well. So you're listening to the simulcast of the Stove podcast on sports Radio. It really does Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.
00:34:49
Speaker 3: All right, it's a simulcast today. So we have a defined third segment here and final segments before we get into the holidays. And since we are at the holidays, anders here on. Oh, certainly we've got to launch a Christmas wish for this off season. I mean we've already gotten one, granted, Josh Naylor is coming back, and it turns out at a smoking rate.
00:35:10
Speaker 2: We're getting a little greedy here. You ask it for more, So what else?
00:35:14
Speaker 3: Give me? Give me one of the If it's the only thing that they get done the rest of the off season, it will still make the off season. What do you think.
00:35:23
Speaker 4: I'm kind of deciding between two things, but I'm gonna go for kind of more of a realistic ask.
00:35:28
Speaker 2: And I'm just gonna say it.
00:35:30
Speaker 4: Kyle Tucker, No, I was gonna say, tell Marte. But I don't think it's unreasonable. It's not completely unreasonable, but I still don't think it's gonna happen. But I'm gonna say, give me an every day DH, Give me an every day D. Like like when we say every day DH, like a DH that you feel good about hitting designated wait for it hit her because I think.
00:35:48
Speaker 3: He said earlier, and he's being able to play a position too. I guess he just can't get a hitter. Yeah, otherwise he's gonna sit every fifth day.
00:35:54
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not talking about the Nelson cruise at the end of his career sort of DH, right, but like someone who like genoswas absolutely can't can't field, but like Gino Suaz is a perfect example, I'm not saying it has to be him, but like, that's a great, great idea. Yeah, having him be mostly d H, but then you can slot in Ben Williamson at third, Cole Young at second. I feel better about that infield than I did about last year's in field defensively, and I'm fine with having Randy as your everyday left fielder and some combination of role Bisraeli and can Zone is your right field.
00:36:29
Speaker 2: Just give me.
00:36:30
Speaker 4: You need to upgrade on the offensive side. If you're going to slot in Williamson and Young as your second and third basement, you need a really good hitter to have be your most days DH.
00:36:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, I'll just play off of that. So I got a Christmas wish in a moment. But I will just say that, like Brandon Donovan the conversation from earlier, if we're not overpaying for him, I like that as a DH option who can play second or third for you and even play a little bit of outfield. I mean, we've talked about corner outfielders this episode. I don't think he could play right field, but he could play left field. He's done that in the past.
00:37:06
Speaker 2: Randy could be your DH right but that's just the thing.
00:37:09
Speaker 3: This is why you don't overpay for Brenda Donod because there are other options. I mean, it's they're talking like C. J. Abrams would cost less than Brendan Donovan, which is wild. Where's that line that I'll go stand down, I'll race to that.
00:37:21
Speaker 2: Line, the Crams line.
00:37:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the only person that would be faster than me is CJ.
00:37:26
Speaker 2: Abrams.
00:37:27
Speaker 3: That's good. I take Brandon Lowe over him. They're not talking about Brandon low being. I mean Brandon Lowe's thirty home run hitter who plays second base, and he can be your DA.
00:37:40
Speaker 2: He can hit lefties better than Donovan can.
00:37:42
Speaker 3: He can hit well enough that he can be the designated hitter and you don't even have to find playing time defensively for him if you don't want to, even though you can and can be your emergency Cole Young didn't work out second basement for you this year. So I mean, I mean, I think Brenda dan be a nice asset, but I there are other options out there. We are really early in this offseason process to be worrying about that. I'm going to do it my Christmas wish list. It seems like I'm the only person in Seattle that wants to do this. I want Mura Kami.
00:38:16
Speaker 4: Oh okay, you're still on the Mura Kami traid there has It's been really quiet with him.
00:38:21
Speaker 2: I am wildly like it won't be much longer.
00:38:25
Speaker 3: I mean, we are recording this on December seventeenth. He has to decide on December twenty second, so we have five days to know what's going on.
00:38:33
Speaker 2: I don't.
00:38:33
Speaker 3: I'm not sitting here in like Hugh Millen and down in my cave watching game film of Mura Kami, the only thing I've really seen or highlights on Murakami. But when's the last guy they described as a Japanese phenom that didn't work out. I'm not expecting to be show a Otani, sure, but even if he's Hideki Matsui, you know, and we say a Suzuki, and we and say a Suzuki, and yet they're saying he's much greater of an ups and he's younger, and he's younger, So if he's our third baseman, and if that price is really coming down, I don't know. I'm just you know, I've always said Christmas is not about practicality. I might need socks, but I don't want them. I don't want you to get too.
00:39:21
Speaker 2: I can buy my own socks, buy me the new video game, yeah, buy me.
00:39:24
Speaker 3: The thing that I won't pay for myself because I think it's silly, but let's face it, I want it. Yeah, exactly, And to me, that's a nice fat Murakami under my Christmas tree on December twenty second. I want to roll the dice on this guy. I want the potential of cal Raleigh and Murakami both hitting fifty homers in a season back to back for the next five years.
00:39:48
Speaker 4: Oh I, I've definitely warmed up to that idea, to be completely honest, especially the more we talk about the exactly that's what I was gonna say. Especially we talked about the infield, and you know, the questions about him defensively fine, slot in Ben Williams and at third, have HIMDH like we already got Josh Nayler at first. You feel fine about that, Like, sign me up for that right now. I don't care if there's he strikes out too much, guys.
00:40:14
Speaker 2: Like who cares? Yeah, it's the game now, and gives.
00:40:20
Speaker 3: Me fifty homers. He can strike out two and fifty times.
00:40:22
Speaker 4: Absolutely, hell, if he gives me forty homers, I'd be fine with that, like, come on, let's go. But yeah, it just seems like it's a it's I don't want to say, can't miss. But the floor is a lot higher than a lot of people are giving him credit for.
00:40:36
Speaker 3: I would think, I don't know that. I don't know that, but I would think, but man, there does some seem to be an epidemic of cold feet when it comes to signing this guy. And so maybe there are very viable reasons for that. And oftentimes, especially in the baseball world, the signings and the trades you don't make are the best ones for the organization. So maybe I'm foolish. Maybe Jerry and Justin who listened to Stove every week.
00:41:02
Speaker 2: They do Jock, don't make me have to call you.
00:41:06
Speaker 3: Murakami stinks. Maybe that's the true story behind it all, and baseball knows that he's going to absolutely fail at the major league level. But my goodness, you show me in eighty grade from a Japanese phenom who's already hit fifty six home runs and a season over in Japan and already knows how to hit off speed stuff. Because that's all they threw there for most of for most of their existence. I want to roll the dice on them. I want an impractical gift under my tree for this Mariners offseason. I want it to be Munataki Murakami. Yeah.
00:41:41
Speaker 4: Again, it's weird, how like everything has gone quiet with him. I would have thought there had been like, all right, everyone's lining up to see who he's gonna sign for. I've seen nothing like. It's weird.
00:41:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want to box a fudge that's fair. Happy Christmas, Andrews Hurst, it's been great doing this this podcast with you, and we'll keep on flying. Yeah.
00:42:00
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's great to be with you guys on holidays. Thanks you, Thank you for letting us into your ears during this holiday season. As you're listening to The Stove Podcast with Chuck Powell and Anderson Hurst
