Speaker A: Welcome to Sharing My Truth with Mel and Suzie.
Speaker B: The uncensored version where we bear it all.
Speaker C: We do.
Speaker B: And hello everybody and welcome back to
Speaker D: Share My Truth Pod.
Speaker B: You're here with Melon Stewart, Susie, and we have a very special guest, Coral. Thanks so much for joining us today. Coral.
Here's a sweet little friend.
Here's a sweet little friendly reminder to follow us on any of our socials@sharemytruthpod. Go to sharemytruth.com to find out more about us and who our guests are,
as well as write in or leave us a voicemail of your own stories and experiences.
Coral, darling, how are you? Thank you for joining.
Speaker D: Thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker B: We'll just let our audience know a little bit about who you are, where did you come from and where they can find you.
Speaker D: Yeah, I am a sexologist and sex and intimacy coach for men.
I came into this line of work quite naturally through having lived a double life as a sex worker on and off for years, years ago.
And yeah, I had a lot of internalized shame, didn't understand why is why I was even drawn to that and was outed, AKA doxed by a friend's boyfriend, something I feared the most happening I didn't want to ever finding out.
And that led to a total breakthrough of me then going back to school,
didn't even know what sexology was before and trying to heal humanity's biggest wound, which is sexuality, I believe.
Speaker B: Wow, that's incredible. Getting doxed, that's so scary.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: How, how did that come about? Like what was like. Sorry, I'm just shocked.
Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's cool now because when the thing that you fear the most happening or anyone would fear the most happening, like you're imagining your deepest, darkest,
most shameful secret. Like you know, once you're free of that you're kind of like cakewalk.
But it was a one of my closest girlfriends boyfriends who have been trying to sleep with me despite being with her for the right a while and,
and he was trying to clearly hire a sex worker,
came across my, my profile and then told and showed everyone so unbeknownst to me for at least a couple months. So yeah, everyone's kind of reaction to me shifted and people avoiding me and I didn't understand any of it and mind you, I was not in a relationship.
I was never in a relationship when I did sex work I nor I cheated on a partner ever before.
So I found that to be absolutely batshit at this point. Now it's Like, I can look back in hindsight and go,
what are you saying? He was in the relationship trying to hire a hooker and came across and then I was the bad guy. So.
Yeah, but that was a few years back. Best thing that ever happened to me because it led me to my career in life now,
which I wouldn't trade for anything. So thank you.
Speaker B: Wow, that's amazing. It's an incredible way to look at it. Not many people are capable of that kind of positive thinking and, you know, self reflection.
Speaker D: The greater the pain, like,
or, you know, you're only as sick as your secrets, as they say.
So, yeah,
people don't usually ever change when things are just okay.
Usually it takes like a pretty big catalystic event to really change your life, or else most people honestly live at just okay.
And that's a ****** place to be for your whole life.
So that's why you. You hear all these, you know, heroes journeys.
Lots of people that first of all come to the work that I do, whether that's therapy or coaching or you know what, or. Or writers or what, they've had to overcome something.
And the. It's a pain to purpose arc. And once you can get through that, it's like your. Your whole life changes. But yeah, it's definitely a dark night of this whole situation.
Speaker B: Wow.
Very cool.
Very amazing.
I. So obviously you work with a lot of men,
which is awesome. I think that's a very. It's very niche for a woman to work with a lot of men. It's just like our podcast, we have a huge male audience,
so it's very interesting. What have you learned from having men as your clients in sex work and now in sex coaching?
Like what? Like, why do they come to you? Why do they want to learn from a woman?
Speaker D: Yeah.
So I found it super interesting and didn't realize the complexity at the time that when I was a sex worker,
how men would open up to me once sex is already on the table, once a man can be perceived and seen as a sexual being,
he no longer feels the need to contort himself or conceal himself, and then his emotional side can come out.
So.
Because otherwise men are constantly negotiating, right? Even with their wives, they're negotiating like,
like sex, power, everything in that environment. That wasn't the case. So. And there was no type of guy.
I mean, or despite what people would think, like, oh, it's just some rich, like, finance guy or whatever. All different sorts of men.
And they would tell me things that they wouldn't tell,
you know, a partner,
spouse, Best friend therapist.
And not if from a confessional way,
but I could just really feel their authenticity completely.
And that was a beautiful thing. And then I'd go out in the dating world and I'd be like, what the **** is this? And there I am also with this duality, right where behind closed doors as a sex worker, I'm like, this is real.
Like this, this is a real connection. Doesn't mean that it's like a real romantic connection or sexual connection, still faking orgasms there. But like,
there it was, it was this real exchange.
And then go out in the dating world and I'm like, everyone's posturing,
you know, like,
men are dating because. Or pretending that to be interested in a woman. Props because they want to have sex. And then women are,
you know, desexualizing themselves because they're afraid of being perceived as a. Or whatever.
And it was just so weird to me.
So when I was doxed,
it took me a while, probably a couple years to actually come out with my experience. Started within my world of safe people, of sexologists and sex therapists.
And then I started, I made the bold move of disclosing and sharing publicly about my experience.
And just by that sexual self disclosure, so many people, predominantly men,
came forward. I started writing about it too. I have a substack and we're going into a lot of detail about my experience.
And from all over the world, all different, you know, relationships, occupations, ages. And it. Because I spoke to that duality, I spoke to that split. I spoke to like, we have these two sides of us.
And the fact that I was putting words to something that was ineffable to them,
they felt connected to and like they could trust and you know, less than 14% of therapists are certified in sexuality, period.
It's an elective. They do not have to train in it. So if you haven't actually navigated shame, especially when it pertains to sexuality yourself or understand it, then why the hell would you be going to someone that's going to project their own **** onto you?
So that was what really moved the needle. The more I discovered closed and, and really I didn't expect to be a coach. I would just like, I was just sharing my views on things and what I learned.
And then men started to ask if I would work with them, if I coach, if I would coach.
And then I had to. You know, that was pretty confronting because I was like, I'm supposed to lead them through this. And you know, I. I was single and that was a Whole,
you know, imposter syndrome piece. But really it comes down to the way that I coach from is honing in on your authentic self. It's, it's like you can't have intimacy if you're living in fear and if you're self abandoning, period.
So that's where we start.
Speaker B: I love that.
Speaker C: Do you mind just for our audience, just to clarify the term sexologist because I think a lot of people are actually confused by what that means because, you know, there's so many terms.
Like people don't even really understand what a, a therapist is. Like what is, what exactly does a sexologist do?
Do you mind explaining?
Speaker D: So a sexologist?
Yeah, no problem.
I didn't know what one was until I literally went back to school for it. So I understand a sexologist studies sexuality as it intersects with psychology, philosophy, sociology, the whole all encompassing, you know, picture of sexuality, what it and what it means.
So it's really, really vast.
And yeah, in, in layman's terms, sex nerds. We're sex nerds. We study sex and everything about it.
Speaker C: Right, right. Okay, I love that I should come to that.
Speaker B: Obsessive sex is really a good describer of myself as well.
So obviously, I know you deal with a lot of men, obviously. But on the women's side,
do you feel like women need to feel desired more than they feel like they need to be loved or is it completely intertwined?
Speaker D: It depends on if that if they're in a relationship or not or what they're looking for. I believe it's subjective.
Women,
you know, women can't sustain satisfaction, relationship satisfaction in the long term relationship without feeling desired. Like it's, it's not possible.
That's why, you know, women will cheat or step out because they're not feeling emotionally attuned to go with the age old saying that, you know, women cheat because they want to leave the relationship, men cheat to stay in the relationship.
And so yeah, it's a.
That desire.
Feeling desire, especially probably in a prolonged long term sense is a byproduct of like deep emotional trust,
attunement, you know, containment, all these things.
So otherwise it's just a platonic friend.
But women can't explain this and men can't explain it or understand it either. So that's how I help to navigate. Because they don't know why they just, why, you know, their *****'* dry all of a sudden.
They don't know why they don't want to **** their husbands and, and no one can. No one understands themselves
Speaker B: yeah, right.
Speaker C: No, it's absolutely true. I mean, it's surprising the amount of people. I mean, we were saying this the other day. I was saying exactly what you're saying. It's like, if you're not desired as a woman in a relationship, that's why you check out.
And the amount of men sexually who don't,
and men who've been in very long marriages,
you know, who don't understand that is kind of amazing, really. I mean, it's quite a simple concept,
but it goes back to that thing of, like, men and women, we're very different and we operate differently in everything.
In. In life, in sex, in the workplace, like, in everything. And we still.
Well, we have a lot of trouble in the world today because we are in this very confused space of nobody really kind of. Should we talk about it? Can we talk about it?
Speaker B: You know, and the way that men are feeling right now, because I think there's a huge part of, like, they feel completely misunderstood. Right?
That's what we see a lot in our comments of men who are just like, you know, I hate women. I don't understand women. Women don't understand us. And this is why they focus into what we're calling the manosphere, right?
Like, they want to feel understood. And there's a bunch of these men who aren't having sex or they're not getting dates, and they think that women are the problem. And I mean, I'll ask you, like, do you think women are the problem with this?
Speaker D: No. I mean, I think we're mirrors to each other. And there's been a massive overcorrection in society,
big time. I think it's a cop out for men to blame women.
We're seeing women veer to the side of hyper independence, which is a byproduct of the sexual revolution. And then post me too. All of this needed to happen. But this is what happens in history repeats itself.
We overcorrect, right? Pendulum swings way too far to the other direction.
And so, you know, the manosphere is very vast. There's a lot of subcategories, if you will, in the manosphere. Like, I'm friends with a few of the red pill guys like Rolo Tomasi,
who wrote the Rational Male, and he's been happily, monogamously married to his wife for 30 years. I know him and his wife and their family, and they're wonderful. And his incentive of.
Of red pill, which is like informing men of how what women are like, is to help men pair bond with women.
So it's like, you know, it's, it's the manosphere is, is misinterpreted in a lot of ways. Mind you, I really tend to attract the dark corners of the manosphere, the bottom feeders of it.
And these are men that simply don't feel in control of their own lives.
So therefore it's easy to point out fingers at women because it gives them some sense of some semblance of control, just the illusion of control that isn't real.
Instead of actually looking at how do you become this guy?
And you know,
women don't prioritize the things that men think that we prioritize. We think that provisions immediately attributed to financial provision.
We think that status is like, you know, having the job on Wall Street.
That's not what it is. It's like competence, trustworthiness.
Like,
you know, I had this boyfriend that was very wealthy when I met him and he asked me if he lost all his money,
would I still like, be with him. I end up breaking up with him for other reasons. But I said,
well, like,
you wouldn't, you would just make it all back. So I'm like, because he's so competent. So I was like, it's a dumb question. Like, like you've already lost it all and made it all.
Like, I wouldn't be with a, not an incompetent man,
you know, so it's like just over indexing on these things that don't actually matter. Same with the height and like **** size. Like, I couldn't. Women have **** amnesia. Like, like we.
I could not. I don't know, ******* inches. I know I'm five foot eight. That's what I can tell you. I don't know. I can, I can tell you how I feel, how I felt with men.
And like, yes, there's been times where I'm like a couple, where I'm like, okay, that was a micro *****. But I've been with a, a lot of people. But like, aside from that, there's a bell curve where we're not, we're not focusing on the things that you think we're focusing on.
And so it's just, yeah, it's, it's a real cop out in, in the darker misogynistic areas of the manosphere now. There's also a part of the manosphere,
depending on where you look, that I value. I've actually come full circle to what I thought was sexual liberation to like, yeah, men and women are better when they're more in traditional dynamics and like, women confuse that for loss of independence, respect and autonomy.
But no, like, we want to be taken care of and respected. And like, if we're. If we have a job because we want to have a job, more passionate about it, then, like, we.
We want to pursue that and we still want you to take care of us. Like, that's just. Sorry. Like, that is my truth. And I think a lot of women have a hard time saying that out loud.
Speaker C: They have a really hard time, especially,
you know, the sort of millennial generation. It's like, it's because you've been taught by women like me, Generation X boomers, to not do that, to not appear to be submissive.
The worst thing you can do is to anybody have any inkling that you're being submissive to a man, and they misinterpret what that means. Like, doing something for the man that you're with to help him or he does something for you is not submit.
Submission.
And that. That's completely misinterpreted. And it. I think it's essentially screwed up a whole generation of women in their relationships and driven them into this hyper,
hyper independence.
And then now they don't want to settle this horrible word. Settle.
And then,
well, we'll see where it goes when those women are in their 40s, you know,
Speaker D: and it's all fear based. It's all fear based. And I say this from direct experience. Experience. It's like when I was like, rah, rah. I'm sexually liberated because I'm a bunch of dudes, like a guy would,
you know, that was because I was terrified of intimacy. I didn't know how to do it. So it was a way. For me, it was a maladaptive strategy of over correction.
So we're seeing the rise of the avoidant woman, and we hear the male loneliness epidemic. But it is human loneliness. It's just women are pretending that they're not afraid, but we're ******* equally as afraid.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. And you mentioned the male loneliness epidemic. Actually, I was reading an article the other day saying that actually there's also a female. We never talk about it, but the female loneliness epidemic that nobody talks about.
You're like,
oh, my God. Well, there's gonna be. There are tons and tons and tons of women in their late 30s, early 40s, and this group is only growing,
who are alone and they won't admit it, but who are lonely. Who. For a. For a myriad of reasons. But that's also an epidemic. I don't know why we don't talk about it.
Maybe it's just not. Yeah, nobody's interested.
Speaker D: Yeah. And. And. And, well, women.
So, you know, in the manosphere and male loneliness epidemic, we saw a lot of men becoming victims,
and then we saw this women becoming, like, the perpetrators. Almost like, how dare you? Again, like, we're projecting all of our generational **** onto, like, the guy that we're on a date with, which is so such bullshit.
And vice versa.
Right? And it's like, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa.
There's. There's an individual person with. With a ton of complexity across from us. Like, stop. Like, why are we doing that? But, yeah, it's. You know, it's true. I've experienced this.
You know, I'm 37, I'm single,
and it's hard because I want. For my career, I have to be seen as strong. It's like, I am, and I am strong,
but with that, it's like, oh, you can't show.
It's hard to know what the vulnerability is. And it's hard to be like, no, like, I'm okay alone, but I want to be with someone and holding onto your desire and naming your desire.
Like, I actually really want to, like, fall in love. I do want to meet a husband, and I do want children.
It's so much harder to say that as a strong woman than it is to just be like, oh, I don't ******* care. Like,
men, I'm independent, whatever,
and we don't know how to do that.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's. That's exactly what it is.
Speaker B: I want to go back to one thing that you had said, and maybe you can go into better detail about it. So you said that men cheat to stay in the relationship.
Women cheat to get out of the relationship.
Why?
Like, why is that the case, especially on the men's side?
Speaker D: Men are that. That's usually rooted in what I. The Madonna ***** complex. So men are.
See their wives as. Or the partners as pure and virtuous. And therefore they are afraid if they bring any of their desires, darker desires, or change their minds or ask their wife of something and get re.
And they don't want to get rejected. It's really a way to mitigate rejection.
So they outsource those desires to maintain the healthy relationship. Ironically,
your woman, your wife, probably wants you to ******* ravage her and **** the **** out of her and, like, put her in place a little bit when she's, like,
you know, poking at you and nagging at you. That's why she's doing that. Because she wants you to take a stand and she wants you to be a man.
And so we have this wound where we like, we both want everything. We want that range from each other and yet we like feel like that needs to be outsourced.
Um, and then women are afraid, like, oh, and you know, if I bring this,
women can't even, can't quite understand it. So it's like if you want a passionate and exciting life, you have to be passionate, exciting person. And that's usually for like genuine polarity, intense polarity that's going to sustain a long term partnership or marriage that a man has to lead that.
A man's got to lead that. So woman thinks that she's complaining about the dishes not being done, but she's like, I don't like that I don't feel exciting to you.
Like, I, like I. You're not, you're not like looking at me the way you used to. You're not putting effort into things the way that you used to. But she distills that down to, you know, the dishes weren't picked up or you put the trash in the recycling instead because they can't explain it.
So, you know, we, we're on no carrot.
Speaker C: Sorry, I would. Sorry, carry on. I apologize.
Speaker D: So, so it's, it's perception based, right? And that's why a man will also go to a sex worker or cheat because he,
he feels he gets to be viewed in a different way than like that his wife no longer sees it. Maybe she's resenting him, taking him for granted. And then the same thing with, with the woman who would step out, right?
So it's like that's rooted in perception. It's never just about the, the experience of sex. It's like I want to feel a certain way and for some reason my relationship is atrophied to that.
The point where I can't feel it. I don't even know why that is or how to explain it. Like, I have no words for this. I have no strategy for it.
I don't know the roadmap because everything on the outside looks good. You know, I have the white picket fence, the 2.5 kids and everything. So I don't really want to poke the bear, but that's the silent death that I see so many people dying.
That's why our divorce rates close, close to 60% right now.
Speaker B: I see.
Speaker C: But you said. Sorry, you said that the man. Does the man have to lead the passion? Is that what you were saying that I was trying to the man draws the passion.
The man has to be the one drawing the passion from the woman being the lead in the, in the past.
The passionate, desirable sense. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker D: It doesn't work if it's the woman type of relationship that you want.
But most commonly, and I mean, like 99.9999% of the time.
Yes,
yes. Because once a woman feels safe, and by safe, I mean she feels like he's trustworthy. He keeps his commitments,
you know, he shows up and he plans, he takes initiative,
he leads. He does what he's going to say and says what he's going to do.
Speaker C: I.
Speaker D: All of that.
Then she can get out of her freaking head like so it.
But that's what I mean by leading. Now, can sexual dynamics look different? As in like maybe he wants to be, you know, he wants her to be dominant whenever they want to play around.
Different dynamics. Yes, but like,
otherwise then a woman's doing what,
everything to cultivate that. Like, like what? She, she's doing everything then. Right.
So.
And it comes back to the spontaneous versus responsive desire. Like, I'm working with this gentleman now.
He has been married for 20 years. Him and his wife were not having sex for most of that 20 years, aside from procreation.
And he had been to a couple sex therapists and they were like, oh, you know, women have like responsive desire more than spontaneous desire.
And I'm like,
I don't, I don't buy that. Because if a woman feels all those things that you're cultivating, a woman would much rather be in a state of arousal than like just have an orgasm.
We'd much rather be in a state of always desiring you than just having an orgasm. So once he learned to become desirable and, and fill those buckets again and take initiative without it being because he was going to get laid or not going to get laid at the end of the night and,
and doing all these things consistently,
they're like having. They're like in the laundry room on a Tuesday. Right. So it's like,
that's spontaneous. Now she has spontaneous desire. Yeah,
yeah.
Speaker C: I, I completely. I mean, I've been married 25 years. I completely agree with you. That's exactly it. It's. We couldn't have said it better. Absolutely right.
Speaker B: You talk a lot. I love your content, by the way, on social, but you talk a lot about body count and,
and how it's, you know, it doesn't matter.
And you know, how maybe you should be, how men should be dating a Woman with a higher body count. I am in agreeance with you. I'm a woman who's like,
really experienced. I'm experienced,
and it's done wonders for me personally,
just as,
you know, experience goes and knowing what I like now and, you know, it hasn't had any problems for me.
The only problem it is is that, like, random people on the Internet are like, you're never going to find a partner. And I'm like,
I'll bet you the other way pretty hard. Never had a problem. So what are your thoughts on that? How did you come to that conclusion?
Speaker D: So I said that provocatively, you know, on Instagram,
because I knew it would stir up a conversation that men should date women with a higher body counter,
not the body count does not matter. It actually also said it matters to the people that it matters to, and those people don't matter to me. That's what it comes down to.
I would never want to date a guy that moralized my body counter, called me a *****, which I have thousands of comments always, and I never take any of them down.
But there's some truth. So it's like you have to look at the meaning behind said body count. Like, well, are you, are you having sex? And because you are,
you know, trying to collect validation,
are you avoiding commitment through that,
or are you deeply in tune with your body? And was this in college or is this still going on in your, like, 30s and 40s at the same rate? And so a high body count, you know, for men and women, by the way,
is,
uh, there's no study that just correlates with women with a high body count, but it does it there. There is empirical evidence that shows that's a less likelihood of relationship satisfaction with, if you have a higher body count.
Now, I would argue because there's less. There's been less exposure, right? To, like, to. If you're living in middle America or if you're a man that doesn't have options,
like that is less attractive and, and you know,
like working at a convenience store and like, then you're going to moralize that and it's good because you have no control. So it comes down to that control. People with higher body count should be with people with higher body counts.
People with lower body counts would probably be with people with lower body counts.
And I would also, again, come back to like, the, the,
the values around that and the life stage around that.
There is a study that I think took over.
It was 5,000 people in 11 countries.
And, and, and there was A consensus that both men and women that had a declining body count with age was more attractive than one that was obviously reaching an inclination.
Because,
you know, if you're still sleep getting drunk at the bar. And it also depends on the context of how you're going about this. If you're, if you're still experimenting in your like, you know, like 40s and 50s and there's been no evolution there to like, now I know what I like and now I know what I don't like.
And now I know how to take that to relationship. And that's kind of telling you something. So there is a. Both and there. And. And it's true. Like, I will get the likely less likelihood to pair bond.
And I'm like, honestly, that is true for me because the pool is smaller, not because I'm not capable. But it took me well into my 30s to then stop having sex for, well, not well into my early 30s to stop having sex for validation, to actually look about, look at like what this meant to me.
And that is part of me and I don't regret any of it. But I'm not having sex in the same way. I'm actually quite prude at this point because for me to feel aroused and connected,
I need like so many things rooted in trust and transparency and respect and all. Like, my body just won't respond to it otherwise. Like, that is how I get turned on.
Like there's no kink in the world. Like it's,
it's going to be benign unless that trust is there. It's going to feel like a gynecological exam unless I trust you.
So, yeah, body count is actually relevant. It's all contextual, it's all nuanced.
But anyone that,
that responds and doubles down in either direction,
I think you got to look at something there. And that's why I don't have a choice but to.
Cause I have exposure therapy by surely by what I do all the time. People either glorify me and pedicleize me and it's like, oh, this feels. That's so awesome. Good for you, girl.
And I'm like, just because I had sex with men for money does not make me heroic. So that's one ******* stupid thing. And then the other thing is like. Or,
you know, so some waste of space and like spoiled milk and like, you know, worthless and. And I'm like, arguably I am more, way more attuned emotionally and more secure than a good chunk of my girlfriends who are in marriages because of my life experience.
I did not start that way. I had a high body count. You know, like I said into my early 30s. I would still say not a good partner at that point.
Like I was very insecure still and hadn't addressed a lot of ****. Now I'm 37 and I have. And so it just context different.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Are you able to just explain a little bit to our audience about pair bonding? Because I think a lot of people,
especially men, throw the term out a lot as to be like exactly like what you're saying, you know, like you have a high body count, you can't pair bond. And I'm like, and I've.
And I've done some research on it. And I'm like,
yes and no.
And like you're saying like it doesn't. The only reason it affects you is because you have a smaller pool. And I would say that the only reason it would affect me is because I know what I want and a lot of men aren't able to give it to me.
So what is pair bonding? And is body. Does body count really affect it really?
Speaker D: Yeah. So you know, it's your ability to have a like long term partnership. I mean in all intents and purposes for procreation.
That's like how we are actually defining it.
And,
and it basically, if you can't, it's saying that you are still have insecure attachment, you know, you have or, or what gets thrown out a lot too is like borderline personality disorder.
You have some, you have some personality disorder that's preventing you from being satisfied in a long term partnership. So that is that satisfaction.
Now to your point,
like I'm with you. There's like, I have a lot more experience which I would perceive as a good thing I wouldn't take back.
Which means that there's a lot more men that have less experience.
But guess what? It's my like that's not, that's neither here nor there. That's what my life has been.
And I can't like be angry at men because they can't meet me there. I can be upset when they're like calling me a ***** and spill like that's bullshit. But I can't be like,
there's no when it's like, yeah, I chose a certain path in my life and that's something that I chose. That's just something that I chose.
And so same with the value set around that. So it's like, where are those people that are also. I'm an experienced junkie. So I actually am monogamous. Like more inclined to monogamy.
I've never been in an open relationship.
I'd be open to maybe exploring at some point, but I'm definitely built more monogamously and, and for the longest time I was like, maybe I'm not. Maybe I just have to go with some like, you know, polyamorous guy because he'll accept me, which is that asymmetrical non monogamy.
And what I realized, it's, it's actually not at all about other people. It's about can I off to India for a month or Europe. And you're going to like trust me and be excited for me and I'm going to come back and be like, oh my God, guess what?
Speaker B: I didn't.
Speaker D: We're actually going to miss each other. And that's going to power each other up as opposed to of that predicated in jealousy.
You know, I'm an experienced junkie and trust is like my paramount value. If you are a jealous person, absolutely do not bother asking me out, period. Right. It's just I'm, I work with men,
I've been with a lot. I have male friends that are very close to me that I either slept with, you know, or dated at some point and I'm not getting rid of them.
So it's just. And that's,
that's, that's what I chose. That's what I chose.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: So when we're talking about like even like you having, wanting to have a relationship, being not trying to be monogamous and obviously you work with a lot of men so you know a lot about like the male psyche, let's say.
But what are like women right now? I find that were. And we talk about the slot, Mel and I talk about this where it's like with women lie to themselves about what they want from a partner.
And we touched on this a little bit earlier. But so like what, what do we tell women now as to like, you know, babe, maybe you're not going to have the six foot man with a six inch **** with a six salary.
Whatever it is that these women are needing in quotes,
think they need. Of course.
And what do they actually need? What do we, what do we tell these women?
Speaker D: You know? Yeah, you have to choose. Like you have to decide what's important to you. You have to like actually write out and identify what your values are. And I go by how do you want to feel in the relationship?
I don't look at any. This is for myself and this is with my clients too.
I don't look at any external qualifiers. I go like, what do I want to feel? Do I want to feel inspired,
expansive, you know, safe, connected with or like autonomous, still free,
deep like, like what is that?
And then what your, you know, obviously non negotiables are too.
But these like markers of success is what we're, we're now saying and we're now projecting onto men and then men project that back onto us. And it's this whole mess where we live in this over preparation culture where, you know, women are like, there's no good men, there's no good men.
Well, because we've been like, well, until he's got his **** together. And again,
being competent does not equate monetary. Like, like dollars in the bank.
Like, are you.
For the biggest qualifier that women should look for is, does he have a purpose and is he living in it?
And that does happen later for a lot of men. It just does. You know, there's some, I would say there's, there's actually a lot of Gen Z men though that are more aligned with their purpose than in previous generations.
This is the first time ever that we're being told that it's acceptable to start over again in your 30s and 40s. Like, I have plenty of male friends and obviously females that like change careers, want back to school, deal these things.
So we have nothing to compare it to, and we have nothing to compare it to, then that's just riddled with shame because no one knows how to navigate it.
So it's like, look for the competence and look for the vision. Like it. Are you okay with him guiding you there and him leaning into his purpose, or are you on a timeline?
Like, because if that's true, then you, the type of men that you date should look different.
Like, you know, if, if having kids is important and if you want to be married and then whatever that is to you, like, don't think that you can project that.
You have to say it, you have to state it.
Speaker B: Yeah. So you're dealing with a lot of single men, right? Or is it just men in relationships?
Speaker D: It's, it's about half and half.
Speaker B: Okay. I was just gonna say, like, what are single men looking for these days?
What are like the top five things that the guys are like, I want this. How do I get this?
Speaker D: Appreciation. Everything comes back to appreciation and being like, yeah, being acknowledged, being nurtured and emotional connection. There was a study that came out recently about the top priority of men in sexual connections.
And it all came down to emotional connection.
It Was like emotional intimacy is what they're looking for.
So that's what we get so wrong about men.
And we have this wound as women that we can't be sexualized or seen as sexual beings and respected, just like men do.
And we can. And that's something I've really learned through my practice because I, I also found that I had a lot of respect as a sex worker. And that's not like you spend,
you know, they already paid. They were, they could like, mind you, I had self respect. So like, if they were active, they were being dicks, then I'd be like, I wouldn't be engaging with them.
But the respect that they had and the ability to like, connect there. And then in my, in my, you know, practice as well,
we seeing the,
the softness of so many men, so many of these men just want to be like,
like understood and believed. I think there's this big trust wound where they feel like women are always.
Women don't trust them, you know, and then so be. They're trying to. They're. They create this double bind that by trying to be trustworthy, they end up abandoning themselves, which then makes her go like, ew, gross.
There's no good men.
So it's like they're like, we've kind of them in a lot of ways.
So like, that's why I really encourage in my practice rewarding men for truth telling. And that's why they come to me,
you know, first. It's like if they go to a therapist that,
like, it's like, oh, like you've cheated or you're into this kink and they don't understand it at all, whereas I do. And I can disclose that to them and they're saying things to me they're sharing without any motive.
There's no objective, there's no end game. They're sharing openly with me. And then I can hold that. And then once again, I can see them now as multidimensional and emotional beings.
And I get asked this a lot. Like,
you know, well,
are you. How do you possibly coach men if you're,
if you're, you know, attractive? And I'm like, that's the whole freaking point. Like, we're going to make them bad for working with me.
And then we're like, like, that's everywhere. We go. Look out the window. You live in Toronto, I live in New York. There's attractive people everywhere. So the idea that like a man can't be sexual and adore you and respect you and listen to like and just this.
We have the same wound just as women. We don't feel like we can be sexualized and like loved and respected. It's like we always feel like we have to choose one.
And I'm trying to dismantle that and change the paradigm. Because again, we both want it all.
Speaker A: Here's the truth.
No one knows what you want better than you, and honestly, you deserve to give it to yourself.
Guy Braided.com is all about men owning their pleasure, their confidence and their wellness. Without shame, without apologies.
Just premium tools designed for your tool for men who know what they want and aren't afraid to give it to themselves.
Because when you give yourself what you want, you show up stronger, happier and more confident.
Speaker B: Go ahead.
Speaker A: You've earned it. Visit guybrator.com that's G-U Y-B-R-A-T-O-R.com to take matters into your own hands.
Speaker C: Thanks so much for listening. To keep up to date with all our episodes and content, follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and YouTube at sharing my Truth Pod for bonus premium content and the really juicy exclusive episodes, subscribe to our Patreon and our premium YouTube.
Thanks again and we'll chat with you next week. 32 1.
Speaker D: Sa.
Speaker B: The uncensored version where we bear it all.
Speaker C: We do.
Speaker B: And hello everybody and welcome back to
Speaker D: Share My Truth Pod.
Speaker B: You're here with Melon Stewart, Susie, and we have a very special guest, Coral. Thanks so much for joining us today. Coral.
Here's a sweet little friend.
Here's a sweet little friendly reminder to follow us on any of our socials@sharemytruthpod. Go to sharemytruth.com to find out more about us and who our guests are,
as well as write in or leave us a voicemail of your own stories and experiences.
Coral, darling, how are you? Thank you for joining.
Speaker D: Thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker B: We'll just let our audience know a little bit about who you are, where did you come from and where they can find you.
Speaker D: Yeah, I am a sexologist and sex and intimacy coach for men.
I came into this line of work quite naturally through having lived a double life as a sex worker on and off for years, years ago.
And yeah, I had a lot of internalized shame, didn't understand why is why I was even drawn to that and was outed, AKA doxed by a friend's boyfriend, something I feared the most happening I didn't want to ever finding out.
And that led to a total breakthrough of me then going back to school,
didn't even know what sexology was before and trying to heal humanity's biggest wound, which is sexuality, I believe.
Speaker B: Wow, that's incredible. Getting doxed, that's so scary.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: How, how did that come about? Like what was like. Sorry, I'm just shocked.
Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's cool now because when the thing that you fear the most happening or anyone would fear the most happening, like you're imagining your deepest, darkest,
most shameful secret. Like you know, once you're free of that you're kind of like cakewalk.
But it was a one of my closest girlfriends boyfriends who have been trying to sleep with me despite being with her for the right a while and,
and he was trying to clearly hire a sex worker,
came across my, my profile and then told and showed everyone so unbeknownst to me for at least a couple months. So yeah, everyone's kind of reaction to me shifted and people avoiding me and I didn't understand any of it and mind you, I was not in a relationship.
I was never in a relationship when I did sex work I nor I cheated on a partner ever before.
So I found that to be absolutely batshit at this point. Now it's Like, I can look back in hindsight and go,
what are you saying? He was in the relationship trying to hire a hooker and came across and then I was the bad guy. So.
Yeah, but that was a few years back. Best thing that ever happened to me because it led me to my career in life now,
which I wouldn't trade for anything. So thank you.
Speaker B: Wow, that's amazing. It's an incredible way to look at it. Not many people are capable of that kind of positive thinking and, you know, self reflection.
Speaker D: The greater the pain, like,
or, you know, you're only as sick as your secrets, as they say.
So, yeah,
people don't usually ever change when things are just okay.
Usually it takes like a pretty big catalystic event to really change your life, or else most people honestly live at just okay.
And that's a ****** place to be for your whole life.
So that's why you. You hear all these, you know, heroes journeys.
Lots of people that first of all come to the work that I do, whether that's therapy or coaching or you know what, or. Or writers or what, they've had to overcome something.
And the. It's a pain to purpose arc. And once you can get through that, it's like your. Your whole life changes. But yeah, it's definitely a dark night of this whole situation.
Speaker B: Wow.
Very cool.
Very amazing.
I. So obviously you work with a lot of men,
which is awesome. I think that's a very. It's very niche for a woman to work with a lot of men. It's just like our podcast, we have a huge male audience,
so it's very interesting. What have you learned from having men as your clients in sex work and now in sex coaching?
Like what? Like, why do they come to you? Why do they want to learn from a woman?
Speaker D: Yeah.
So I found it super interesting and didn't realize the complexity at the time that when I was a sex worker,
how men would open up to me once sex is already on the table, once a man can be perceived and seen as a sexual being,
he no longer feels the need to contort himself or conceal himself, and then his emotional side can come out.
So.
Because otherwise men are constantly negotiating, right? Even with their wives, they're negotiating like,
like sex, power, everything in that environment. That wasn't the case. So. And there was no type of guy.
I mean, or despite what people would think, like, oh, it's just some rich, like, finance guy or whatever. All different sorts of men.
And they would tell me things that they wouldn't tell,
you know, a partner,
spouse, Best friend therapist.
And not if from a confessional way,
but I could just really feel their authenticity completely.
And that was a beautiful thing. And then I'd go out in the dating world and I'd be like, what the **** is this? And there I am also with this duality, right where behind closed doors as a sex worker, I'm like, this is real.
Like this, this is a real connection. Doesn't mean that it's like a real romantic connection or sexual connection, still faking orgasms there. But like,
there it was, it was this real exchange.
And then go out in the dating world and I'm like, everyone's posturing,
you know, like,
men are dating because. Or pretending that to be interested in a woman. Props because they want to have sex. And then women are,
you know, desexualizing themselves because they're afraid of being perceived as a. Or whatever.
And it was just so weird to me.
So when I was doxed,
it took me a while, probably a couple years to actually come out with my experience. Started within my world of safe people, of sexologists and sex therapists.
And then I started, I made the bold move of disclosing and sharing publicly about my experience.
And just by that sexual self disclosure, so many people, predominantly men,
came forward. I started writing about it too. I have a substack and we're going into a lot of detail about my experience.
And from all over the world, all different, you know, relationships, occupations, ages. And it. Because I spoke to that duality, I spoke to that split. I spoke to like, we have these two sides of us.
And the fact that I was putting words to something that was ineffable to them,
they felt connected to and like they could trust and you know, less than 14% of therapists are certified in sexuality, period.
It's an elective. They do not have to train in it. So if you haven't actually navigated shame, especially when it pertains to sexuality yourself or understand it, then why the hell would you be going to someone that's going to project their own **** onto you?
So that was what really moved the needle. The more I discovered closed and, and really I didn't expect to be a coach. I would just like, I was just sharing my views on things and what I learned.
And then men started to ask if I would work with them, if I coach, if I would coach.
And then I had to. You know, that was pretty confronting because I was like, I'm supposed to lead them through this. And you know, I. I was single and that was a Whole,
you know, imposter syndrome piece. But really it comes down to the way that I coach from is honing in on your authentic self. It's, it's like you can't have intimacy if you're living in fear and if you're self abandoning, period.
So that's where we start.
Speaker B: I love that.
Speaker C: Do you mind just for our audience, just to clarify the term sexologist because I think a lot of people are actually confused by what that means because, you know, there's so many terms.
Like people don't even really understand what a, a therapist is. Like what is, what exactly does a sexologist do?
Do you mind explaining?
Speaker D: So a sexologist?
Yeah, no problem.
I didn't know what one was until I literally went back to school for it. So I understand a sexologist studies sexuality as it intersects with psychology, philosophy, sociology, the whole all encompassing, you know, picture of sexuality, what it and what it means.
So it's really, really vast.
And yeah, in, in layman's terms, sex nerds. We're sex nerds. We study sex and everything about it.
Speaker C: Right, right. Okay, I love that I should come to that.
Speaker B: Obsessive sex is really a good describer of myself as well.
So obviously, I know you deal with a lot of men, obviously. But on the women's side,
do you feel like women need to feel desired more than they feel like they need to be loved or is it completely intertwined?
Speaker D: It depends on if that if they're in a relationship or not or what they're looking for. I believe it's subjective.
Women,
you know, women can't sustain satisfaction, relationship satisfaction in the long term relationship without feeling desired. Like it's, it's not possible.
That's why, you know, women will cheat or step out because they're not feeling emotionally attuned to go with the age old saying that, you know, women cheat because they want to leave the relationship, men cheat to stay in the relationship.
And so yeah, it's a.
That desire.
Feeling desire, especially probably in a prolonged long term sense is a byproduct of like deep emotional trust,
attunement, you know, containment, all these things.
So otherwise it's just a platonic friend.
But women can't explain this and men can't explain it or understand it either. So that's how I help to navigate. Because they don't know why they just, why, you know, their *****'* dry all of a sudden.
They don't know why they don't want to **** their husbands and, and no one can. No one understands themselves
Speaker B: yeah, right.
Speaker C: No, it's absolutely true. I mean, it's surprising the amount of people. I mean, we were saying this the other day. I was saying exactly what you're saying. It's like, if you're not desired as a woman in a relationship, that's why you check out.
And the amount of men sexually who don't,
and men who've been in very long marriages,
you know, who don't understand that is kind of amazing, really. I mean, it's quite a simple concept,
but it goes back to that thing of, like, men and women, we're very different and we operate differently in everything.
In. In life, in sex, in the workplace, like, in everything. And we still.
Well, we have a lot of trouble in the world today because we are in this very confused space of nobody really kind of. Should we talk about it? Can we talk about it?
Speaker B: You know, and the way that men are feeling right now, because I think there's a huge part of, like, they feel completely misunderstood. Right?
That's what we see a lot in our comments of men who are just like, you know, I hate women. I don't understand women. Women don't understand us. And this is why they focus into what we're calling the manosphere, right?
Like, they want to feel understood. And there's a bunch of these men who aren't having sex or they're not getting dates, and they think that women are the problem. And I mean, I'll ask you, like, do you think women are the problem with this?
Speaker D: No. I mean, I think we're mirrors to each other. And there's been a massive overcorrection in society,
big time. I think it's a cop out for men to blame women.
We're seeing women veer to the side of hyper independence, which is a byproduct of the sexual revolution. And then post me too. All of this needed to happen. But this is what happens in history repeats itself.
We overcorrect, right? Pendulum swings way too far to the other direction.
And so, you know, the manosphere is very vast. There's a lot of subcategories, if you will, in the manosphere. Like, I'm friends with a few of the red pill guys like Rolo Tomasi,
who wrote the Rational Male, and he's been happily, monogamously married to his wife for 30 years. I know him and his wife and their family, and they're wonderful. And his incentive of.
Of red pill, which is like informing men of how what women are like, is to help men pair bond with women.
So it's like, you know, it's, it's the manosphere is, is misinterpreted in a lot of ways. Mind you, I really tend to attract the dark corners of the manosphere, the bottom feeders of it.
And these are men that simply don't feel in control of their own lives.
So therefore it's easy to point out fingers at women because it gives them some sense of some semblance of control, just the illusion of control that isn't real.
Instead of actually looking at how do you become this guy?
And you know,
women don't prioritize the things that men think that we prioritize. We think that provisions immediately attributed to financial provision.
We think that status is like, you know, having the job on Wall Street.
That's not what it is. It's like competence, trustworthiness.
Like,
you know, I had this boyfriend that was very wealthy when I met him and he asked me if he lost all his money,
would I still like, be with him. I end up breaking up with him for other reasons. But I said,
well, like,
you wouldn't, you would just make it all back. So I'm like, because he's so competent. So I was like, it's a dumb question. Like, like you've already lost it all and made it all.
Like, I wouldn't be with a, not an incompetent man,
you know, so it's like just over indexing on these things that don't actually matter. Same with the height and like **** size. Like, I couldn't. Women have **** amnesia. Like, like we.
I could not. I don't know, ******* inches. I know I'm five foot eight. That's what I can tell you. I don't know. I can, I can tell you how I feel, how I felt with men.
And like, yes, there's been times where I'm like a couple, where I'm like, okay, that was a micro *****. But I've been with a, a lot of people. But like, aside from that, there's a bell curve where we're not, we're not focusing on the things that you think we're focusing on.
And so it's just, yeah, it's, it's a real cop out in, in the darker misogynistic areas of the manosphere now. There's also a part of the manosphere,
depending on where you look, that I value. I've actually come full circle to what I thought was sexual liberation to like, yeah, men and women are better when they're more in traditional dynamics and like, women confuse that for loss of independence, respect and autonomy.
But no, like, we want to be taken care of and respected. And like, if we're. If we have a job because we want to have a job, more passionate about it, then, like, we.
We want to pursue that and we still want you to take care of us. Like, that's just. Sorry. Like, that is my truth. And I think a lot of women have a hard time saying that out loud.
Speaker C: They have a really hard time, especially,
you know, the sort of millennial generation. It's like, it's because you've been taught by women like me, Generation X boomers, to not do that, to not appear to be submissive.
The worst thing you can do is to anybody have any inkling that you're being submissive to a man, and they misinterpret what that means. Like, doing something for the man that you're with to help him or he does something for you is not submit.
Submission.
And that. That's completely misinterpreted. And it. I think it's essentially screwed up a whole generation of women in their relationships and driven them into this hyper,
hyper independence.
And then now they don't want to settle this horrible word. Settle.
And then,
well, we'll see where it goes when those women are in their 40s, you know,
Speaker D: and it's all fear based. It's all fear based. And I say this from direct experience. Experience. It's like when I was like, rah, rah. I'm sexually liberated because I'm a bunch of dudes, like a guy would,
you know, that was because I was terrified of intimacy. I didn't know how to do it. So it was a way. For me, it was a maladaptive strategy of over correction.
So we're seeing the rise of the avoidant woman, and we hear the male loneliness epidemic. But it is human loneliness. It's just women are pretending that they're not afraid, but we're ******* equally as afraid.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. And you mentioned the male loneliness epidemic. Actually, I was reading an article the other day saying that actually there's also a female. We never talk about it, but the female loneliness epidemic that nobody talks about.
You're like,
oh, my God. Well, there's gonna be. There are tons and tons and tons of women in their late 30s, early 40s, and this group is only growing,
who are alone and they won't admit it, but who are lonely. Who. For a. For a myriad of reasons. But that's also an epidemic. I don't know why we don't talk about it.
Maybe it's just not. Yeah, nobody's interested.
Speaker D: Yeah. And. And. And, well, women.
So, you know, in the manosphere and male loneliness epidemic, we saw a lot of men becoming victims,
and then we saw this women becoming, like, the perpetrators. Almost like, how dare you? Again, like, we're projecting all of our generational **** onto, like, the guy that we're on a date with, which is so such bullshit.
And vice versa.
Right? And it's like, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa.
There's. There's an individual person with. With a ton of complexity across from us. Like, stop. Like, why are we doing that? But, yeah, it's. You know, it's true. I've experienced this.
You know, I'm 37, I'm single,
and it's hard because I want. For my career, I have to be seen as strong. It's like, I am, and I am strong,
but with that, it's like, oh, you can't show.
It's hard to know what the vulnerability is. And it's hard to be like, no, like, I'm okay alone, but I want to be with someone and holding onto your desire and naming your desire.
Like, I actually really want to, like, fall in love. I do want to meet a husband, and I do want children.
It's so much harder to say that as a strong woman than it is to just be like, oh, I don't ******* care. Like,
men, I'm independent, whatever,
and we don't know how to do that.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's. That's exactly what it is.
Speaker B: I want to go back to one thing that you had said, and maybe you can go into better detail about it. So you said that men cheat to stay in the relationship.
Women cheat to get out of the relationship.
Why?
Like, why is that the case, especially on the men's side?
Speaker D: Men are that. That's usually rooted in what I. The Madonna ***** complex. So men are.
See their wives as. Or the partners as pure and virtuous. And therefore they are afraid if they bring any of their desires, darker desires, or change their minds or ask their wife of something and get re.
And they don't want to get rejected. It's really a way to mitigate rejection.
So they outsource those desires to maintain the healthy relationship. Ironically,
your woman, your wife, probably wants you to ******* ravage her and **** the **** out of her and, like, put her in place a little bit when she's, like,
you know, poking at you and nagging at you. That's why she's doing that. Because she wants you to take a stand and she wants you to be a man.
And so we have this wound where we like, we both want everything. We want that range from each other and yet we like feel like that needs to be outsourced.
Um, and then women are afraid, like, oh, and you know, if I bring this,
women can't even, can't quite understand it. So it's like if you want a passionate and exciting life, you have to be passionate, exciting person. And that's usually for like genuine polarity, intense polarity that's going to sustain a long term partnership or marriage that a man has to lead that.
A man's got to lead that. So woman thinks that she's complaining about the dishes not being done, but she's like, I don't like that I don't feel exciting to you.
Like, I, like I. You're not, you're not like looking at me the way you used to. You're not putting effort into things the way that you used to. But she distills that down to, you know, the dishes weren't picked up or you put the trash in the recycling instead because they can't explain it.
So, you know, we, we're on no carrot.
Speaker C: Sorry, I would. Sorry, carry on. I apologize.
Speaker D: So, so it's, it's perception based, right? And that's why a man will also go to a sex worker or cheat because he,
he feels he gets to be viewed in a different way than like that his wife no longer sees it. Maybe she's resenting him, taking him for granted. And then the same thing with, with the woman who would step out, right?
So it's like that's rooted in perception. It's never just about the, the experience of sex. It's like I want to feel a certain way and for some reason my relationship is atrophied to that.
The point where I can't feel it. I don't even know why that is or how to explain it. Like, I have no words for this. I have no strategy for it.
I don't know the roadmap because everything on the outside looks good. You know, I have the white picket fence, the 2.5 kids and everything. So I don't really want to poke the bear, but that's the silent death that I see so many people dying.
That's why our divorce rates close, close to 60% right now.
Speaker B: I see.
Speaker C: But you said. Sorry, you said that the man. Does the man have to lead the passion? Is that what you were saying that I was trying to the man draws the passion.
The man has to be the one drawing the passion from the woman being the lead in the, in the past.
The passionate, desirable sense. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker D: It doesn't work if it's the woman type of relationship that you want.
But most commonly, and I mean, like 99.9999% of the time.
Yes,
yes. Because once a woman feels safe, and by safe, I mean she feels like he's trustworthy. He keeps his commitments,
you know, he shows up and he plans, he takes initiative,
he leads. He does what he's going to say and says what he's going to do.
Speaker C: I.
Speaker D: All of that.
Then she can get out of her freaking head like so it.
But that's what I mean by leading. Now, can sexual dynamics look different? As in like maybe he wants to be, you know, he wants her to be dominant whenever they want to play around.
Different dynamics. Yes, but like,
otherwise then a woman's doing what,
everything to cultivate that. Like, like what? She, she's doing everything then. Right.
So.
And it comes back to the spontaneous versus responsive desire. Like, I'm working with this gentleman now.
He has been married for 20 years. Him and his wife were not having sex for most of that 20 years, aside from procreation.
And he had been to a couple sex therapists and they were like, oh, you know, women have like responsive desire more than spontaneous desire.
And I'm like,
I don't, I don't buy that. Because if a woman feels all those things that you're cultivating, a woman would much rather be in a state of arousal than like just have an orgasm.
We'd much rather be in a state of always desiring you than just having an orgasm. So once he learned to become desirable and, and fill those buckets again and take initiative without it being because he was going to get laid or not going to get laid at the end of the night and,
and doing all these things consistently,
they're like having. They're like in the laundry room on a Tuesday. Right. So it's like,
that's spontaneous. Now she has spontaneous desire. Yeah,
yeah.
Speaker C: I, I completely. I mean, I've been married 25 years. I completely agree with you. That's exactly it. It's. We couldn't have said it better. Absolutely right.
Speaker B: You talk a lot. I love your content, by the way, on social, but you talk a lot about body count and,
and how it's, you know, it doesn't matter.
And you know, how maybe you should be, how men should be dating a Woman with a higher body count. I am in agreeance with you. I'm a woman who's like,
really experienced. I'm experienced,
and it's done wonders for me personally,
just as,
you know, experience goes and knowing what I like now and, you know, it hasn't had any problems for me.
The only problem it is is that, like, random people on the Internet are like, you're never going to find a partner. And I'm like,
I'll bet you the other way pretty hard. Never had a problem. So what are your thoughts on that? How did you come to that conclusion?
Speaker D: So I said that provocatively, you know, on Instagram,
because I knew it would stir up a conversation that men should date women with a higher body counter,
not the body count does not matter. It actually also said it matters to the people that it matters to, and those people don't matter to me. That's what it comes down to.
I would never want to date a guy that moralized my body counter, called me a *****, which I have thousands of comments always, and I never take any of them down.
But there's some truth. So it's like you have to look at the meaning behind said body count. Like, well, are you, are you having sex? And because you are,
you know, trying to collect validation,
are you avoiding commitment through that,
or are you deeply in tune with your body? And was this in college or is this still going on in your, like, 30s and 40s at the same rate? And so a high body count, you know, for men and women, by the way,
is,
uh, there's no study that just correlates with women with a high body count, but it does it there. There is empirical evidence that shows that's a less likelihood of relationship satisfaction with, if you have a higher body count.
Now, I would argue because there's less. There's been less exposure, right? To, like, to. If you're living in middle America or if you're a man that doesn't have options,
like that is less attractive and, and you know,
like working at a convenience store and like, then you're going to moralize that and it's good because you have no control. So it comes down to that control. People with higher body count should be with people with higher body counts.
People with lower body counts would probably be with people with lower body counts.
And I would also, again, come back to like, the, the,
the values around that and the life stage around that.
There is a study that I think took over.
It was 5,000 people in 11 countries.
And, and, and there was A consensus that both men and women that had a declining body count with age was more attractive than one that was obviously reaching an inclination.
Because,
you know, if you're still sleep getting drunk at the bar. And it also depends on the context of how you're going about this. If you're, if you're still experimenting in your like, you know, like 40s and 50s and there's been no evolution there to like, now I know what I like and now I know what I don't like.
And now I know how to take that to relationship. And that's kind of telling you something. So there is a. Both and there. And. And it's true. Like, I will get the likely less likelihood to pair bond.
And I'm like, honestly, that is true for me because the pool is smaller, not because I'm not capable. But it took me well into my 30s to then stop having sex for, well, not well into my early 30s to stop having sex for validation, to actually look about, look at like what this meant to me.
And that is part of me and I don't regret any of it. But I'm not having sex in the same way. I'm actually quite prude at this point because for me to feel aroused and connected,
I need like so many things rooted in trust and transparency and respect and all. Like, my body just won't respond to it otherwise. Like, that is how I get turned on.
Like there's no kink in the world. Like it's,
it's going to be benign unless that trust is there. It's going to feel like a gynecological exam unless I trust you.
So, yeah, body count is actually relevant. It's all contextual, it's all nuanced.
But anyone that,
that responds and doubles down in either direction,
I think you got to look at something there. And that's why I don't have a choice but to.
Cause I have exposure therapy by surely by what I do all the time. People either glorify me and pedicleize me and it's like, oh, this feels. That's so awesome. Good for you, girl.
And I'm like, just because I had sex with men for money does not make me heroic. So that's one ******* stupid thing. And then the other thing is like. Or,
you know, so some waste of space and like spoiled milk and like, you know, worthless and. And I'm like, arguably I am more, way more attuned emotionally and more secure than a good chunk of my girlfriends who are in marriages because of my life experience.
I did not start that way. I had a high body count. You know, like I said into my early 30s. I would still say not a good partner at that point.
Like I was very insecure still and hadn't addressed a lot of ****. Now I'm 37 and I have. And so it just context different.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Are you able to just explain a little bit to our audience about pair bonding? Because I think a lot of people,
especially men, throw the term out a lot as to be like exactly like what you're saying, you know, like you have a high body count, you can't pair bond. And I'm like, and I've.
And I've done some research on it. And I'm like,
yes and no.
And like you're saying like it doesn't. The only reason it affects you is because you have a smaller pool. And I would say that the only reason it would affect me is because I know what I want and a lot of men aren't able to give it to me.
So what is pair bonding? And is body. Does body count really affect it really?
Speaker D: Yeah. So you know, it's your ability to have a like long term partnership. I mean in all intents and purposes for procreation.
That's like how we are actually defining it.
And,
and it basically, if you can't, it's saying that you are still have insecure attachment, you know, you have or, or what gets thrown out a lot too is like borderline personality disorder.
You have some, you have some personality disorder that's preventing you from being satisfied in a long term partnership. So that is that satisfaction.
Now to your point,
like I'm with you. There's like, I have a lot more experience which I would perceive as a good thing I wouldn't take back.
Which means that there's a lot more men that have less experience.
But guess what? It's my like that's not, that's neither here nor there. That's what my life has been.
And I can't like be angry at men because they can't meet me there. I can be upset when they're like calling me a ***** and spill like that's bullshit. But I can't be like,
there's no when it's like, yeah, I chose a certain path in my life and that's something that I chose. That's just something that I chose.
And so same with the value set around that. So it's like, where are those people that are also. I'm an experienced junkie. So I actually am monogamous. Like more inclined to monogamy.
I've never been in an open relationship.
I'd be open to maybe exploring at some point, but I'm definitely built more monogamously and, and for the longest time I was like, maybe I'm not. Maybe I just have to go with some like, you know, polyamorous guy because he'll accept me, which is that asymmetrical non monogamy.
And what I realized, it's, it's actually not at all about other people. It's about can I off to India for a month or Europe. And you're going to like trust me and be excited for me and I'm going to come back and be like, oh my God, guess what?
Speaker B: I didn't.
Speaker D: We're actually going to miss each other. And that's going to power each other up as opposed to of that predicated in jealousy.
You know, I'm an experienced junkie and trust is like my paramount value. If you are a jealous person, absolutely do not bother asking me out, period. Right. It's just I'm, I work with men,
I've been with a lot. I have male friends that are very close to me that I either slept with, you know, or dated at some point and I'm not getting rid of them.
So it's just. And that's,
that's, that's what I chose. That's what I chose.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: So when we're talking about like even like you having, wanting to have a relationship, being not trying to be monogamous and obviously you work with a lot of men so you know a lot about like the male psyche, let's say.
But what are like women right now? I find that were. And we talk about the slot, Mel and I talk about this where it's like with women lie to themselves about what they want from a partner.
And we touched on this a little bit earlier. But so like what, what do we tell women now as to like, you know, babe, maybe you're not going to have the six foot man with a six inch **** with a six salary.
Whatever it is that these women are needing in quotes,
think they need. Of course.
And what do they actually need? What do we, what do we tell these women?
Speaker D: You know? Yeah, you have to choose. Like you have to decide what's important to you. You have to like actually write out and identify what your values are. And I go by how do you want to feel in the relationship?
I don't look at any. This is for myself and this is with my clients too.
I don't look at any external qualifiers. I go like, what do I want to feel? Do I want to feel inspired,
expansive, you know, safe, connected with or like autonomous, still free,
deep like, like what is that?
And then what your, you know, obviously non negotiables are too.
But these like markers of success is what we're, we're now saying and we're now projecting onto men and then men project that back onto us. And it's this whole mess where we live in this over preparation culture where, you know, women are like, there's no good men, there's no good men.
Well, because we've been like, well, until he's got his **** together. And again,
being competent does not equate monetary. Like, like dollars in the bank.
Like, are you.
For the biggest qualifier that women should look for is, does he have a purpose and is he living in it?
And that does happen later for a lot of men. It just does. You know, there's some, I would say there's, there's actually a lot of Gen Z men though that are more aligned with their purpose than in previous generations.
This is the first time ever that we're being told that it's acceptable to start over again in your 30s and 40s. Like, I have plenty of male friends and obviously females that like change careers, want back to school, deal these things.
So we have nothing to compare it to, and we have nothing to compare it to, then that's just riddled with shame because no one knows how to navigate it.
So it's like, look for the competence and look for the vision. Like it. Are you okay with him guiding you there and him leaning into his purpose, or are you on a timeline?
Like, because if that's true, then you, the type of men that you date should look different.
Like, you know, if, if having kids is important and if you want to be married and then whatever that is to you, like, don't think that you can project that.
You have to say it, you have to state it.
Speaker B: Yeah. So you're dealing with a lot of single men, right? Or is it just men in relationships?
Speaker D: It's, it's about half and half.
Speaker B: Okay. I was just gonna say, like, what are single men looking for these days?
What are like the top five things that the guys are like, I want this. How do I get this?
Speaker D: Appreciation. Everything comes back to appreciation and being like, yeah, being acknowledged, being nurtured and emotional connection. There was a study that came out recently about the top priority of men in sexual connections.
And it all came down to emotional connection.
It Was like emotional intimacy is what they're looking for.
So that's what we get so wrong about men.
And we have this wound as women that we can't be sexualized or seen as sexual beings and respected, just like men do.
And we can. And that's something I've really learned through my practice because I, I also found that I had a lot of respect as a sex worker. And that's not like you spend,
you know, they already paid. They were, they could like, mind you, I had self respect. So like, if they were active, they were being dicks, then I'd be like, I wouldn't be engaging with them.
But the respect that they had and the ability to like, connect there. And then in my, in my, you know, practice as well,
we seeing the,
the softness of so many men, so many of these men just want to be like,
like understood and believed. I think there's this big trust wound where they feel like women are always.
Women don't trust them, you know, and then so be. They're trying to. They're. They create this double bind that by trying to be trustworthy, they end up abandoning themselves, which then makes her go like, ew, gross.
There's no good men.
So it's like they're like, we've kind of them in a lot of ways.
So like, that's why I really encourage in my practice rewarding men for truth telling. And that's why they come to me,
you know, first. It's like if they go to a therapist that,
like, it's like, oh, like you've cheated or you're into this kink and they don't understand it at all, whereas I do. And I can disclose that to them and they're saying things to me they're sharing without any motive.
There's no objective, there's no end game. They're sharing openly with me. And then I can hold that. And then once again, I can see them now as multidimensional and emotional beings.
And I get asked this a lot. Like,
you know, well,
are you. How do you possibly coach men if you're,
if you're, you know, attractive? And I'm like, that's the whole freaking point. Like, we're going to make them bad for working with me.
And then we're like, like, that's everywhere. We go. Look out the window. You live in Toronto, I live in New York. There's attractive people everywhere. So the idea that like a man can't be sexual and adore you and respect you and listen to like and just this.
We have the same wound just as women. We don't feel like we can be sexualized and like loved and respected. It's like we always feel like we have to choose one.
And I'm trying to dismantle that and change the paradigm. Because again, we both want it all.
Speaker A: Here's the truth.
No one knows what you want better than you, and honestly, you deserve to give it to yourself.
Guy Braided.com is all about men owning their pleasure, their confidence and their wellness. Without shame, without apologies.
Just premium tools designed for your tool for men who know what they want and aren't afraid to give it to themselves.
Because when you give yourself what you want, you show up stronger, happier and more confident.
Speaker B: Go ahead.
Speaker A: You've earned it. Visit guybrator.com that's G-U Y-B-R-A-T-O-R.com to take matters into your own hands.
Speaker C: Thanks so much for listening. To keep up to date with all our episodes and content, follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and YouTube at sharing my Truth Pod for bonus premium content and the really juicy exclusive episodes, subscribe to our Patreon and our premium YouTube.
Thanks again and we'll chat with you next week. 32 1.
Speaker D: Sa.
