WEBVTT
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They sell a lot of volume.
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They've been asked for that data into their emissions.
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We actually realised that the kilogram CO2e per litre, was 0.77 kilograms CO2.
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So what that meant was that just by proxy of measuring their emissions, they actually help people like Tesco, and Waitrose, and Sainsbury's by giving them a 67% reduction in their emissions for the products that they buy
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Hi, everyone.
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Welcome to episode 51 of the sustainable supply chain podcast.
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Today's episode is very generously sponsored by MDSI, provider of industry leading IT solutions with a sustainable edge.
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My name is Tom Raftery and with me on the show today, I have my special guest, George.
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George, welcome to the podcast.
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Would you like to introduce yourself?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Hi, Tom.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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My name is George.
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I'm co founder of a company called Zevira.
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We help companies measure, reduce and report on their emissions.
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And the most important part of that is that we work with people that have really complex supply chains.
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So consumer goods, manufactured goods companies.
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And that's what I, love doing and helping, helping brands understand how they can unlock the data to be able to tell a better story around sustainability and ultimately the key thing being to reduce their emissions.
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But yeah, thanks for having me, Tom.
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Great.
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Yeah.
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And tell me, how did you get into this, George?
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my story into, carbon accounting, I think is it's quite interesting because it was something that I never knew about before.
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And.
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I was working in the waste industry and I was working with companies on helping them reduce their waste and ultimately trying to get things in the right bin.
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And it was actually during lockdown and during COVID, I made all my money in my previous company through bins being collected.
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And ultimately trying to do that during COVID was quite hard because no bins were being collected, at least on, trade premises.
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So I basically got told by my boss, Hey, if you want to keep a job, you kind of need to find a new source of revenue.
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So I ended up working on a lot of consultancy projects through the circular economy, and that was what our company was all about was how do we prevent waste and more about flow of resources.
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And one thing that I was working on was the University of Exeter project and actually working with their team on carbon accounting.
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And I was doing the waste element of making change and using the data from the carbon side to create change.
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And for me, the, kind of journey into carbon was that I realised that they had this big system and it was really archaic and actually they were spending loads of time on trying to get data that was better, but actually I found it really difficult as someone that's very action orientated to then go into, uh, I guess an organisational structure and a system in terms of carbon accounting at the time that was so related around how on earth do we get the data in, in the right place and ultimately found that if there was 10 hours to spend, nine hours was spent on data and discussions around data and one hour was on actual action.
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And for me, I, I was like, well, hold on a minute.
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I've got a load of SME clients that I can sell, carbon accounting to when I go back to my job.
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What solution is there out there for me, that I could go and try and find and sell to them?
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Because evidently this is not a system that works very well.
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So my journey really came into the discovery of what solutions on the market and this is 2020 and the you know there wasn't the tools like ourselves out there now and you know there's a number of carbon accounting tools and management tools out there now.
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But the time there really wasn't smart ways to measure your emissions, especially in that mid sized market as well.
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So my journey really came into it as an outsider of trying to understand what's possible.
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And I think the final thing that actually made me go wow, I'm all in on on trying to realise that this is actually where I can have the biggest impact on the planet in my personal career, and life is that I was focused on waste, and when I went through the data on waste, actually you’re talking about a very small percentage of emissions being created at the waste stage and actually I use this example a lot, I was working with companies that were talking about pallet wrap around a pallet of products, and they were so focused on the pallet wrap.
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when you look into the data, you actually realise that it's the products within that pallet wrap, which is the cause of the problems that we have in terms of emissions.
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Right.
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And that's the bit where I was like, right, okay, how do we uncover those invisible emissions, which is actually kind of the role that I think carbon accounting plays is in covering those visible emissions in a company supply chain.
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And yeah, basically from that point onwards, I was like, I can't work in waste anymore.
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I need to work where I can have the biggest impact.
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Okay, and so talk to me about the setup of Zavero.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So we are a team that are now global.
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So myself and my co founder, Ben who I met through the, my journey of discovering carbon accounting tools who was a carbon accountant.
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We started the company in 2021 officially.
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We were working on it in 2020, but we didn't know how to file our own company's house until 2021.
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That's the, the form hit the formation year officially.
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And we built that company for three years or so.
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And we were actually acquired by another organisation early in February, which is we've gone from two to four kind of founders.
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And now we have a global makeup.
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So originally Ben and myself, UK focus, we have clients across the world, but our focus was UK, Europe, a bit of North America.
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But now we're in a fantastic position where we have, I've got a team in Singapore and a team in Japan and then employees, you know, in Australia and New Zealand and North America as well.
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So it's a really fantastic journey that we've been on and as a company, I'm really proud that we're, global actually solving a global problem as well, which I think is the most important thing.
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And you know, there's lots of context between exports from Asia to the UK that we can be an incredible, Europe even we can be incredibly good at solving.
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But yeah, the makeup is changed a lot in the last three or four years is what I'd say So,
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Sure, sure, sure.
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And what would you say has surprised you most in your journey from being back then in waste to now being in a global company solving a global problem?
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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I'd say.
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Yeah.
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On the surprise, actually, I would say the, how quickly that people can buy into understanding what they need to do.
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And I think I talk about it a lot as I had that aha moment where I was like, I can't work in trying to remove plastic pallet wrap.
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I need to work on how do I help people understand that same conundrum I had.
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And I think seeing the change from when we have people that we're working with go from being.
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I have no idea about this to two, three years later as customers and they're speaking at sustainability events and the driving innovation and change within their organisation.
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I think for me, that's almost surprised me how quickly people can start to grapple with their data and start to actually create change that, you know, you maybe don't see it organisations where you have archaic systems, et cetera.
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So for me, that's the most interesting and also the most powerful.
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I think for, I feel proud of the work that we get to do.
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Nice.
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And how do you go from a startup that was just incorporated in 2021 to a global company by the end of 24?
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A lot of hard work, perseverance, and a lot of look I'd say, but I think main thing really has been that we've always listened to our customers.
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So within, this market, as, as we know, and everyone knows that listening to this, that there are a lot of solution providers, there are a lot of tools that are out there, but there's also a lot of challenges with some of those as well.
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So I think for us, what we've done a very good job of is going back to the fundamentals of actually making sure we measure emissions really, really accurately, doing it in the easiest possible way.
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And then from there, speaking to our customers about not just building features that everybody else might have, but actually features that are of value to customers or trying to understand their challenges rather than building something and sell it to them.
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So I think for me, that's listening to our customers and, understanding the problems that we solve and how we, create the, the solution has been the number one biggest thing for, for us ultimately.
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But yeah, there's a, lot of look and a lot of a lot of steps along the way.
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And what market segment are you addressing?
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Yeah, that's a really good question.
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I guess the right now and over the last three years, what we've been really focused on initially was how do we work with someone that will give us money?
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That was the first thing that Ben and I tried to do, you know as a startup we went What on earth?
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Yeah, I I think so.
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I think so who's gonna pay us money and how do we scale it?
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And then we quickly realised actually that we need to create something where we have value across every customer that we work with.
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So we've worked over the last three years, predominantly with consumer goods companies, FMCG, manufactured goods.
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So it can be anyone from drinks brands, confectionery, cleaning products et cetera, but then we also work with organisations that have large amount of their emissions from their supply chain and service based industries.
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So it's, it's a slightly different problem, but it's actually the same sort of challenge that they're facing is how do they get great data?
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So if you work with a creative agency, how do you understand the emissions of flights and how do you make interventions of changes to, to reduce the impact of those?
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So whilst I wouldn't want to say that we're industry agnostic, we work best with companies that are manufactured goods and ultimately buy products produce a good and sell it.
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We, we also do a great job for service based agencies as well.
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So service based companies, sorry.
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So we end up with a really good mix of clients, but ultimately they all share that same common problem, which is that they've got a lot of supply chain emissions.
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They maybe don't have a lot of control over those emissions in the sense of, you know, it's not their factories, et cetera, et cetera.
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And that ultimately that they want to be able to get better ways to reduce their emissions by having a more accurate kind of streamlined process for that data collection.
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Okay.
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And are you enabling people to measure and report scope three as well as scope one and two?
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, that's the biggest thing that for us.
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I mean, we've literally got some companies that don't have any scope one and two emissions.
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All the way through to, yeah, I mean, you know, they they work out of a, a leased office.
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They have everything is basically within their supply chain.
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So for us, that's the bit that we do very well.
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And I think that that's also, you know, that shared problem across a number of different industries.
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It could be you're a pet food supplier, or you could be a a chemical company.
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Ultimately, you're going to have a lot of your emissions come from, supply chains.
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And, and that's the bit that we've, we've found to work very well.
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And the systems that we have and the processes that we've built have, I've serviced that market the best, essentially.
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Scope one or two is easy.
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I yeah, it's, you know, it can be complex, but realistically, relatively easy.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So if I am a small services based company working out of a leased office and most of my emissions are in my supply chain, how do I gather and report those?
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Because they're not mine, not my data.
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Yeah.
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So it's a really good question.
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And and I guess just on that, that's the type of company, which I think in terms of the sophistication of the solution that you need.
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We do really well for those, you know, really complex supply chain and consumer goods.
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But if you think about as a, let's say I'm a creative agency with 25 people in an office, I'm based in London.
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So let's just say we have an office in London.
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Getting that data.
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It seems like a really hard task, but it's actually relatively simple.
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There will be data often now with through your offices as part of, you know, your, if you go and ask them, well, Hey, what were the average kilowatt hours per square meter or for my office or whatever it might be?
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So that's, that's just one part of the puzzle on collecting that data.
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But any provider that you work with, that's good, should be able to give you averages if that's not as possible and use it as a recommendation for next year.
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And then when it comes to that supply chain data, you know, realistically for service based providers, it's, do you track asset registers and, you know, things like laptops and things, which are going to be a big source of your physical quantity emissions.
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But then it's actually about how do you get data from how much you spend, which I don't advocate for spend based emissions for anything other than basically services.
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So you're never going to be able to do physical quantity for things like Facebook ad spend or whatever it might be, but actually that's where we integrate with really great tools where we do spend based emission factors using company reported data.
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So, Facebook, Google, everybody reports on there as emissions to CDP and SBTI.
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So instead of using industry averages, effectively, it's about working with your suppliers to understand what's actually who has set targets to reduce their impact and what are the goals that they're going on so that you can understand that journey.
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But yeah, we've, we've got some great tools that we integrate with that basically allow us to pull that, that information.
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And interesting fact, actually Salesforce, I think it is because they measure and report their emissions, Salesforce's emissions compared to the average about 99.8% percent lower than, than the average figure.
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And that's purely because I have obviously how averages work, but the fact that it just shows the importance of you measuring your emissions.
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Because then you can actually understand that, okay, even if we're using proxies, we are lower than, than average, et cetera.
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That's, that's kind of the, I think the most important thing from that is that the journey that you go on as a if you take that example as a small company, it doesn't have to be all at once.
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There are easy tools available to collect that data.
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It's not that big of a task if you have the right processes and the right partner to, deal with that as well.
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Don't sit there and think, oh my gosh, it's so scary.
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I can't do this.
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Just think about, okay, what's the first step and how do we make progress and what's, what's the initial parts that we can, we can do rather than not doing anything effectively.
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Okay, and if I am that small, 25 person, organi sation in a leased office, how can I afford a solution that, is going to report on emissions for me?
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I mean, it's, is it the case that I can pass that cost on to my customers who are probably demanding it anyway that I report, or is it just a cost of doing business, is it something that's going to give me competitive advantage, or do I just have to do it because regulations because customers or you know where are people in that kind of spectrum?
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Yeah, it's it's a good question.
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I think in terms of this if we take this example 25 people, small company, service based offices is really around who do you service and what's the value that that would bring to them.
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You know, you look at the rise of B Corp and things like that is, it's actually a really good framework for you to operate in.
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So I do think that there are a lot of free tools and a lot of free solutions and frameworks that you can work through before you have to pay any money to people like me.
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Those, you know, those sides of companies, I, I don't think that you have to necessarily spend money to make progress often with, with this sort of stuff, which obviously is the, the honesty that I would prefer to share rather than say, yeah, come and speak to me and I'll, I'll tell you all of the great reasons we can, we can work together, but actually it's a case of, I think that the real driver for this is it is becoming a, almost a hygiene factor in the way that companies assess operations.
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If we're we're wanting to look for a new web developer or wanting to look for an SEO agency or whatever it might be like for us as a company, we'll try and always advocate for B Corp or organisations or, or whatever it might be.
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Do have companies that have actively look to reduce their emissions or making change?
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So I think that that becomes an increasingly important process where you do have customers that are asking for this and it does become a cost of doing business, but I don't think you need to have the same level of data complexity and also decarbonisation, as you know, a Meta or a or a bigger organisation.
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It's actually just about what's right for you and do you, can you position yourself in in a way that allows you to, to showcase why it's important for you and why you care about this, rather than it just being a tick box exercise, which I don't think anyone's really going to kind of believe long term is the the reason they'd want to work with you, for example.
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Right, right and if you're saying it's reasonably easy to collect that data, then what are the actual challenges that the companies you're working with?
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What are the main challenges that they're coming up against?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, maybe just to, to go back on that, that those companies that are 25 people in an office, a service based agency are not the people that we work with.
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We work with, the largest independent creative agency in the world, which there's 1500 employees, but they actually face kind of similar problems.
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We work with maybe 25 people in an office, but they sell tens of millions pounds worth of products because they're a product based company that outsource their production for example.
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So that's like just a, point to note there.
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And ultimately, when it comes to those challenges and the way that you collect that data and that process, I think, for us, where we've done a very, very good job is integrating with ERP systems.
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So if we think about it as you actually, for most companies, they already have the data that they need to calculate emissions.
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And obviously, there's a it's very complex, but realistically, you're all you're doing is timesing an activity that you do as a business, with an emission factor.
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It's relatively simple.
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The activity might be that you are buying 10,000 aluminum cans for a soft drink company, or it might be that you're taking a business class flight from the UK to New York because you're going to go and sell products in New York.
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So really it's around what data do you have within your systems?
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And how do we get that?
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And that's what I think I talked about earlier, that for scope three, we've done a great job of.
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It's actually recognising that there is the simple formula is how do we get the data you already have in your system into our system so we can understand how to calculate the emissions.
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And I think that that's the kind of the most important thing that you don't have to necessarily always reinvent the wheel.
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It's just about, right, this is what we've got.
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Maybe we lack in certain areas.
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Most companies don't track business travel very well because they all track how much money they spent on it.
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They won't track where they flew to and from and how many kilometers it was.
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So you just do that over time and you add those layers of additional data collection in.
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And, and that's the bit that we, we help companies with and we find to do really well.
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Okay, do you have any customer success stories you can speak to, X company, to your point, like, with Salesforce, where they have got down 99% or they're 99% lower than their peers?
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Any, any kind of similar data that you can share about some of your customers.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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We we're very fortunate enough that we've had a number of success stories from our clients, which is always, great to have.
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I think one that I, think is really interesting, from the product based companies that we work with.
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We work with a fantastic drinks brand in the UK called Jubel.
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They produce a peach lager, which is inspiration from the Alps.
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Interestingly enough, I actually used to drink their beer at university because they went to the same university as me, did the founders, and I was on the Surf society team.
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And they used to say, Hey, George, let me give you a load of beer so that you can give it to surf members.
00:20:38.439 --> 00:20:39.749
And I was like, yes, please.
00:20:39.798 --> 00:20:40.479
I will do that.
00:20:40.489 --> 00:20:45.329
So they have, they've really filled me with joy for the last 10 years of my life.
00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:46.819
Not just the last three years of my life.
00:20:46.969 --> 00:20:50.804
With them, we've been working with them for, for, three years or so now.
00:20:50.804 --> 00:20:52.714
So more or less since we kind of started.
00:20:53.514 --> 00:20:58.360
And success story number one from them was that they were using somebody else before.
00:20:58.470 --> 00:21:00.360
They were going, they would used a consultancy.
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.100
They didn't actually measure any of their, product based emissions.
00:21:04.110 --> 00:21:05.930
Cause they, again, the outsourced, some of that.
00:21:07.050 --> 00:21:13.850
And ultimately what we decided was that we worked with them for them to realise that that's not an accurate reflection of their emissions.
00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:19.144
So number one, we measured their emissions with, accuracy, granular detail.
00:21:19.765 --> 00:21:29.705
And we did that easily through simple tools like bulk upload features and be able to do matching but also through different integrations and things like that.
00:21:30.445 --> 00:21:37.300
That's always an incredibly good thing when we can show people that the change from what it used to be like, to what it's like now.
00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:46.820
And we have a number of those stories, but I think the second part for Jubel and the reason why I really liked that as a success story is that it kind of leads back to what we've discussed.
00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:55.610
And a lot of companies are really concerned about, Oh, well, we need to measure emissions and what if we're good or not good, or if we start talking about this, we might not actually be doing very well.
00:21:56.210 --> 00:22:01.680
Well with Jubel, they've been asked to report this data into big supermarkets here in the UK.
00:22:02.655 --> 00:22:02.905
Okay.
00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:03.940
They sell a lot of volume.
00:22:04.405 --> 00:22:06.768
They've been asked for that data into their emissions.
00:22:06.768 --> 00:22:13.838
We actually realised that the kilogram CO2e per litre, was 0.77 kilograms CO2.
00:22:14.678 --> 00:22:26.728
So what that meant was that just by proxy of measuring their emissions, they actually help people like Tesco, and Waitrose, and Sainsbury's by giving them a 67% reduction in their emissions for the products that they buy.
00:22:26.768 --> 00:22:33.423
So I think for me as a small organisation that you know, they were 10 people when they started working with us.
00:22:33.423 --> 00:22:34.813
They've got around 50 people now.
00:22:35.753 --> 00:22:37.953
They've actually made a really good journey.
00:22:38.633 --> 00:22:45.733
And they've had a lot of value from that get go and being able to provide that number to the supermarkets who then can say, well, great.
00:22:45.743 --> 00:22:53.263
If we buy Jubel versus competitor B, which is maybe not even as good, we're also going to have 67% fewer emissions.
00:22:53.503 --> 00:22:56.018
So we're going to increase our order by 20%.
00:22:56.028 --> 00:23:11.567
So I think that those sorts of stories of where data has allowed people to communicate the change that they can make and the benefit of purchasing their product versus the alternative, I think is something that I really enjoy because that's the, you know, going back to the beginning, it's how do we use the data?
00:23:11.567 --> 00:23:16.348
Not only to to help understand where our impact comes from and how we can reduce it.
00:23:16.358 --> 00:23:17.508
That's the most important part.
00:23:17.508 --> 00:23:22.658
But it's also how you can communicate the value that you're bringing to to your buyers and to your customers effectively.
00:23:23.078 --> 00:23:25.067
Yeah, that's that's maybe one of many Tom.
00:23:25.448 --> 00:23:28.548
If we had more time, I could get into into the details of many more.
00:23:29.368 --> 00:23:46.143
But to that point as well, when people do start on that measurement journey, have you any examples that you can share either with a named company or not of companies who have looked at their data and gone, Oh, my gosh, we've got that much emissions in that space.
00:23:46.143 --> 00:23:47.273
Let's tackle that.
00:23:48.184 --> 00:23:49.913
Yeah, it's a really good question.
00:23:50.004 --> 00:23:51.084
We've had couple actually.
00:23:51.124 --> 00:24:05.667
There's a couple where we've been able to turn really complex scope, three, data processes into really simplified, which has helped them go, oh, okay, not only is that easier to measure every year, but we can actually track that going forward.
00:24:05.667 --> 00:24:11.277
And we know that while we had proxies last year, our emissions are much more clear now.
00:24:12.107 --> 00:24:13.547
So that's, that's an example.
00:24:13.547 --> 00:24:19.927
We just had with a client that has essentially 20 million records that we've analysed from their purchases.
00:24:20.272 --> 00:24:23.461
And being able to actually granularly work out where those emissions come from.
00:24:23.542 --> 00:24:31.409
And for them, interestingly enough, a big source of their emissions actually came from the, this, they sell effectively a hydration tablets.
00:24:32.219 --> 00:24:38.322
And they sell water bottles, like stainless steel water bottles so that you can refill you know, your bottles.
00:24:38.622 --> 00:24:41.922
But one of the biggest source of emissions is that they produce those bottles themselves.
00:24:42.362 --> 00:24:46.687
And it's stainless steel, but actually it's, that's a big source of emissions, but is that a problem?
00:24:47.537 --> 00:24:50.227
Because whilst they can decarbonise it's what's the alternative?
00:24:50.417 --> 00:24:53.107
People buying hundreds of bottles in that process.
00:24:53.117 --> 00:24:55.557
So that's one thing that we found very interesting.
00:24:55.557 --> 00:25:02.527
You can uncover with the data that sometimes the biggest source of your emissions is something you need to tackle, but it's also part of the success of you as a company.
00:25:02.607 --> 00:25:05.537
So that's one that I found very interesting.
00:25:06.107 --> 00:25:09.687
And I think one other one, which I I'll come back to another brewery.
00:25:09.817 --> 00:25:14.207
Which we do have lots of different clients, but those are two really good case studies.
00:25:14.737 --> 00:25:18.767
We worked with a client who outsourced production of their beer to Scotland.
00:25:19.346 --> 00:25:24.207
They're London based, they sell most of their beer in London, but it was cheaper to produce in Scotland.
00:25:25.247 --> 00:25:35.947
Now, the problem with that is that on average about 15% of companies that we work with have their emissions from their transportation, in terms of getting their product from factory to customers.
00:25:36.767 --> 00:25:41.777
But when we did the data, we actually realised that they had about 25% of their emissions come from the transportation.
00:25:42.336 --> 00:25:49.076
And that is because they were shipping water beer down from Scotland to sell locally.
00:25:49.257 --> 00:26:03.367
Now, what we were able to do, which I think is the most important part of that is they went to that brewery in Scotland because they were a little bit more cost effective, but they also have great sustainability credentials that they were kind of outweighed by the shipping.
00:26:04.127 --> 00:26:07.600
So what they actually did was they found a really great brewer in Sussex.
00:26:08.250 --> 00:26:09.860
Where they produce the beer there instead.
00:26:10.415 --> 00:26:13.644
And then they ship more locally to the regions that they sell to.
00:26:13.675 --> 00:26:23.179
So I think that that's just a couple of examples where what we've been able to do is use that data to tell a really good story and to, really make, change and create change.
00:26:23.179 --> 00:26:33.925
Yeah, it's, it's genuinely phenomenal for, for me and my co founder to be able to be provide a solution that allows companies to actually do that I think is is awesome.
00:26:34.175 --> 00:26:35.035
It's really cool to see
00:26:36.355 --> 00:26:36.705
Okay.
00:26:36.705 --> 00:26:42.705
and we often focus on carbon reduction as an environmental necessity, which obviously it is.
00:26:42.705 --> 00:26:50.245
But are there any surprising non environmental business benefits that companies have experienced through this journey?
00:26:50.285 --> 00:26:55.525
Maybe a boost in unexpected areas like team morale or even creative innovation?
00:26:56.335 --> 00:27:03.285
Yeah, I think one thing there's there's obviously a number of different ways that climate is is great and taking action and reductions.
00:27:03.285 --> 00:27:13.380
I think that when you bring people on that journey that's first first and foremost, so your team itself that you already have buying into the idea that you're a great company to work for is obviously a fantastic thing.
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:20.360
And as I now have a team of 50 people around the world, I realise having a happy team is really important and it's also quite expensive.
00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:21.009
Right.
00:27:21.009 --> 00:27:23.070
You know, you've got to make sure that everyone's happy.
00:27:23.070 --> 00:27:24.320
So we're very fortunate.
00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:26.290
We have a great purpose for people to get behind.
00:27:26.290 --> 00:27:29.330
So be able to give that to other companies I think, I think is fantastic.
00:27:30.144 --> 00:27:35.305
There are a number of different things not just on that, I guess, that employee retention, but actually attraction.
00:27:36.115 --> 00:27:39.815
And I can't tell you the amount of people that we get apply for the roles that we advertise.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.230
Because they want to be part of a company that's, you know, making a change.
00:27:43.690 --> 00:27:45.830
So I think that that's one area.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:54.110
And then there are a number of different things in terms of, you know, there will be cost drivers and people effectively be able to make changes that save them money.
00:27:54.110 --> 00:27:55.940
And especially when it comes to energy, right?
00:27:55.970 --> 00:28:03.570
If you're one of the companies that we, we work with, quite a lot of them have around 15, 20% of scope one and two emissions.
00:28:04.405 --> 00:28:13.009
If we can work with them understanding how they can reduce their energy consumption, you know, they're saving money first and foremost, as their emissions are coming down.
00:28:13.009 --> 00:28:21.639
So, yes, everything from, you know, employee retention, employee hiring cost savings, and then just general, I think, from a sales perspective.
00:28:22.589 --> 00:28:36.369
When you have those things combined and together, you have a motivated team and you have a passionate group of people, you can talk about this stuff with real belief and conviction, rather than saying, yeah, we've ticked a box and we've carbon offset 10% of our emissions or things like that.
00:28:36.879 --> 00:28:39.298
But yeah, there are, there are many benefits.
00:28:39.379 --> 00:28:42.989
It's what keeps me getting up every day and telling the story that we, we do.
00:28:43.708 --> 00:28:52.988
Fantastic, and what metrics or KPIs should companies focus on to measure the success of their initiatives, and ensure continuous improvement?
00:28:53.798 --> 00:28:55.579
Yeah, that's just a really good question.
00:28:55.719 --> 00:29:07.849
I actually think I'm going to break that down into two different types of company because there'll be companies or people in this that are listening to it who are in fast growth companies where their emissions are actually going rise year on year.
00:29:08.259 --> 00:29:13.809
So, science based targets, everything like that, they've all been built for big organisations.
00:29:14.429 --> 00:29:28.528
That fundamentally does not work for fast growing organisations because with science based targets, if you are a big organisation, let's say you're a Unilever or a Procter Gamble, you should absolutely be measuring emissions on an absolute basis.
00:29:28.798 --> 00:29:34.509
And you should be making, you know, 5% year on year reductions in line with science based targets.
00:29:35.209 --> 00:29:40.349
But if you're a company that's growing at 300% a year, you're not going to be able to grow on an absolute basis.
00:29:41.009 --> 00:29:44.849
So I think that in terms of KPIs, we have to think about it slightly differently.
00:29:45.209 --> 00:29:49.909
Now we often look to implement emission intensity metrics.
00:29:50.364 --> 00:30:04.244
Which I understand also are the problem that I have with that is that you're still actually producing more emissions into the atmosphere, but then, so it's, you know, it's a challenge because, but then what's the other consideration?
00:30:04.254 --> 00:30:06.244
Everybody shuts down and we don't sell any more products.
00:30:06.344 --> 00:30:29.497
And actually, if you think about some of the great customers that we work with, especially in that innovation space, water hydration companies that are able to substitute the need to buy Coca Cola by replacing it, replacing it with hydration droplets, which are lighter, which are cheaper to transport and fewer emissions on transportation, but then they also remove the need for single use plastic bottles.
00:30:29.557 --> 00:30:36.727
Now, actually the success of those companies will bring down the overall impact that we have on the planet.
00:30:36.787 --> 00:30:42.957
So sometimes it's slightly different and you can think about it as a mission intensity metrics first and foremost for growth companies.
00:30:43.502 --> 00:30:47.172
But then is it really, what is it that you're trying to achieve and what's the true mission?
00:30:48.292 --> 00:30:53.552
We have some, another example, we have a fantastic group of companies that sell canned wine.
00:30:54.342 --> 00:30:57.072
Now, wine in a bottle, phenomenal.
00:30:57.882 --> 00:31:01.342
Everybody, you know, a glass of wine, fantastic.
00:31:01.932 --> 00:31:10.812
But actually what, what's really interesting as a packaging format, glass, the ship from, let's say, New Zealand or Chile or wherever it is, it's really heavy.
00:31:11.902 --> 00:31:13.662
And there's a lot of emissions associated with that.
00:31:13.721 --> 00:31:16.612
You know, the innovation of wine in a can and things like that.
00:31:16.622 --> 00:31:34.697
It's not only the packagings for your emissions, but then you also think about the fact that, I mean, for me, I'm a, I'm a lightweight, I'll have one glass of wine and I'll be asleep basically, if I'm you know, having a glass of wine on a Friday, night and the other rest of the bottle I end up using the last third of it basically for cooking always because it's gone not so good.
00:31:34.817 --> 00:31:40.977
That's, that's a typical routine for, for me, I'll open a bottle of wine, have one glass, maybe have the second one on a Saturday.
00:31:41.267 --> 00:31:43.777
And then by the end of the week, I don't need any more.
00:31:43.777 --> 00:31:45.137
And it's gone bad.
00:31:45.137 --> 00:31:53.407
So the innovation that by selling more of your products, you can actually reduce things like food waste and and the production of wine that's going to waste.
00:31:53.417 --> 00:32:05.657
So I think that there can be really specific things that customers, and, and businesses and organisations can track, which are outside of the typical, what have you reduced your scope one and two emissions by.
00:32:06.100 --> 00:32:12.867
For me, I find that really interesting because it points to a more of a purpose, you know, based organisation of, of what matters to you.
00:32:13.532 --> 00:32:19.152
Yeah, those, those sorts of stories and communication and, and, and things is something that I, I love doing.
00:32:19.242 --> 00:32:30.032
So if there's, you know, if there's people listening that want to understand how it actually applies to them, I will gladly use my calendar and time to, to make sure that I can think about what those KPIs are for you.
00:32:30.032 --> 00:32:35.961
And, and ultimately how the measurement part will allow you to, to do that, Cause that's the most important thing there as well.
00:32:35.961 --> 00:32:36.152
Right.
00:32:37.142 --> 00:32:42.152
You can't set and track and run these KPIs without actually doing that data collection first.
00:32:43.362 --> 00:32:46.632
Yeah, where where's all this going?
00:32:46.632 --> 00:32:49.092
You know where, where's this industry going to go in the next 5, 10 years?
00:32:49.092 --> 00:32:50.892
Yeah, it's a really, really great question.
00:32:50.932 --> 00:32:57.032
I think there is a lot of, there's been a lot of tools, as we all know, in the last five, six years.
00:32:58.002 --> 00:33:10.442
And I think that we're starting to see, and we've seen a lot in the market, that naturally the cream rises to the top and that the people that are doing a really, really good job with a, I think a forward looking future.
00:33:11.382 --> 00:33:15.822
So for us, we've always thought about how do we work with companies to 2030 to 2040?
00:33:16.082 --> 00:33:17.451
That's the business that we want to be in.
00:33:18.102 --> 00:33:28.552
We don't want to be in a business that effectively does a really good job for two years, and then we're effectively out of business because we've sold somebody offsets that are not very good or whatever it might be.
00:33:28.552 --> 00:33:33.162
So I think that where we're seeing is fewer number of people.
00:33:33.567 --> 00:33:35.727
But operating in more niche roles.
00:33:36.687 --> 00:33:41.437
So we work with some really great industries, you know, in that consumer goods, manufactured goods sector.
00:33:42.317 --> 00:33:45.387
And I think that we have a lot of knowledge that we can share.
00:33:45.437 --> 00:33:49.667
We've got 50, 60 people that are basically the same supply chain set up.
00:33:50.076 --> 00:33:57.397
And we can share, you know, knowledge and we can share resources between them and ultimately share ways to reduce their emissions.
00:33:57.407 --> 00:34:04.294
So I think that that's one route that we're going to go down is smaller number of people doing a better job for the target audience.
00:34:05.139 --> 00:34:10.768
And then I think that we're also going to start to see a lot more communication between organisations.
00:34:10.829 --> 00:34:13.099
So, we have a Product Carbon Footprint tool.
00:34:13.248 --> 00:34:18.318
We believe strongly in that as a future tool, mainly for that collaboration between companies.
00:34:18.788 --> 00:34:27.768
As I mentioned, that Jubel example, people want to know what your emissions are, and you, maybe you don't need to do an Oatly and put it on your packaging, but you need to be able to communicate something.
00:34:28.809 --> 00:34:32.568
Your number now and that journey over time to, to, your buyers.
00:34:33.559 --> 00:35:00.594
And I think that things like the PACT framework are going to be incredibly, incredibly useful for sharing that data and, and ultimately having a way to have better people in more tailored industries so that people have great resources that're fit for them, but also more data sharing and communication between organisations and I think Carbon Accounting Alliance, another example of where that's been phenomenal as an organisation for them to put that together.
00:35:01.914 --> 00:35:10.034
'Cos, at the minute you can't compare apples and apples with a lot of the stuff that happens in carbon accounting and it makes it really challenging, even for us as a service provider, right?
00:35:10.443 --> 00:35:18.153
Because we can't actually say to somebody, yeah, your emissions are 25% lower than this person's because we don't know what the other person's measured.
00:35:19.054 --> 00:35:23.934
And we don't know whether they've missed out so critically important things that we would important to measure.
00:35:24.364 --> 00:35:32.923
So, I think that there's, those are kind of two, two projections is that it is going to be clear on who, who there is in the market and who they serve.
00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:42.345
And then ultimately on how we collaborate more as a market and between everyone as well because that's the bit that will get us to net zero.
00:35:42.345 --> 00:35:45.454
It's the shared, you know, shared journey that we're all on ultimately.
00:35:46.630 --> 00:35:50.480
And allowing companies to compare apples to apples as it were
00:35:51.635 --> 00:35:52.894
Exactly, exactly.
00:35:53.095 --> 00:35:56.894
Your Granny Smith to your Braeburn and not your Granny Smith to your pears, basically.
00:35:56.894 --> 00:35:58.494
There you go.
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:01.110
Quick left field question.
00:36:02.179 --> 00:36:02.668
question.
00:36:02.668 --> 00:36:17.628
If you could have any person, or character, alive or dead, real or fictional, as a spokesperson for carbon accounting, responsible carbon accounting, who would it be, and why?
00:36:19.775 --> 00:36:20.934
That's a really good question.
00:36:22.704 --> 00:36:31.555
I'm gonna say I'm, my temptation there is go with someone like a voice of command, like a David Attenborough, or somebody like that.
00:36:31.575 --> 00:36:34.244
But I think that a lot of those people exist.
00:36:34.365 --> 00:36:47.535
I'm actually gonna go for a, a slightly left field answer and not because I think that I necessarily agree with everything they say, but actually because I think that it will be more uniting, people together around it.
00:36:47.555 --> 00:37:03.535
And I'm actually going to say someone like Elon Musk, because whilst, whilst he's I don't necessarily agree with this politics just to put that out there, but I actually think that if you think about someone that's an innovator, someone that has a really great sense of how do we solve a problem?
00:37:04.325 --> 00:37:15.025
And then you combine that with, I guess, like the, right wing non net zero agenda, it might actually bring people together rather than just speaking to the same, same audience.
00:37:15.075 --> 00:37:15.394
Yeah.
00:37:16.309 --> 00:37:29.099
I wouldn't go as far as saying Donald Trump to be the spokesperson of carbon accounting, I would at least say that maybe it's somebody that can bring the group of everyone that believes whether this is right or wrong and ultimately bring those people together.
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:33.180
So yeah, politics aside from it, I think that that's my, that's my answer.
00:37:33.230 --> 00:37:34.559
Great, great, great.
00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:46.539
Ok, we are coming towards the end of the podcast now George, is there any question I did not ask that you wish I did, or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it is important for people to think about?
00:37:48.510 --> 00:37:49.150
Not necessarily.
00:37:49.150 --> 00:38:06.795
I just think that from, from the perspective of the listener, I think, you know, we, I talk a lot for me, we we've talked about it quite a bit but, It's how do we make sure that people understand that it's a journey that they're about to go on, and the answers that they they need don't happen in the first first year.
00:38:06.795 --> 00:38:18.190
And it is that journey between now and 2030 and 2040 And having someone that can help you understand instead of being almost in your mind manic of, Oh my gosh, we need to make loads of change.
00:38:18.190 --> 00:38:19.809
We need to solve all these problems.
00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:27.700
It's actually quite fundamental how we can break it down and start to see what's possible now, what's possible next and what's possible in the future.
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:39.845
And I think for me, not only does data help you do that, but having great people that you can surround yourself, whether it's a carbon partner like ourselves as Zevero, but also whether it's people in your industry.
00:38:40.335 --> 00:38:43.474
That will help you go actually, that was really hard for us to do.
00:38:44.295 --> 00:38:45.535
We're not able to do it now.
00:38:45.625 --> 00:38:54.235
I think that's the bit that the message that I always want to make clear is that we want to be the people for that journey and that that journey is not overnight.
00:38:54.494 --> 00:39:00.204
It wouldn't be, we wouldn't have a problem if sustainability was easy is what I would say.
00:39:00.275 --> 00:39:06.785
So that's the, the main thing for me is really just that I think there's a lot of stress, a lot of burnout in this industry.
00:39:06.785 --> 00:39:20.088
And I think that for a lot of people, they need to realise that it's, it is not just all on them to do in the first year, but no, it's been, it's been great chatting Tom.
00:39:20.509 --> 00:39:21.108
Yeah, likewise, likewise.
00:39:21.108 --> 00:39:26.052
If people George would like to know more about yourself, or any of the things we discussed here today where would you have me direct them?
00:39:26.874 --> 00:39:27.773
Yeah, absolutely.
00:39:27.834 --> 00:39:28.644
Zevero.
00:39:28.664 --> 00:39:29.764
earth is our website.
00:39:29.844 --> 00:39:48.184
hopefully it'll be in show notes, but, another area where I, I would always plug people visit is I call myself an ardent climate optimist I write a blog every two weeks called the grumpy optimist essentially sharing why we have hope and faith left in in the planet and and the challenges that we can solve.
00:39:48.235 --> 00:39:51.954
If people want to communicate with me via through Zevero through linkedin.
00:39:52.295 --> 00:40:04.925
And also I I will always subtly plug, the blog because it is a labor of love sometimes my sunday sunday afternoons and evenings recapping two weeks of positive climate news is something that I want other people to enjoy as much as as much as I do.
00:40:06.349 --> 00:40:06.710
Nice.
00:40:06.809 --> 00:40:07.070
Great.
00:40:07.410 --> 00:40:09.059
I'll put a link to those in the show notes, George.
00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:10.420
So everyone has access to them.
00:40:11.269 --> 00:40:11.639
Super
00:40:11.815 --> 00:40:12.224
Thank you
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:13.910
That's been fantastic.
00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:15.510
Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.
00:40:16.215 --> 00:40:16.704
Absolutely.
00:40:16.704 --> 00:40:16.925
Tom.
00:40:16.974 --> 00:40:17.644
Thanks for having me.
00:40:18.711 --> 00:40:19.211
Okay.
00:40:19.231 --> 00:40:24.722
Thank you all for tuning into this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery.
00:40:25.922 --> 00:40:29.902
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00:40:30.572 --> 00:40:36.561
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com.
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00:41:03.106 --> 00:41:03.497
Thanks.
00:41:04.137 --> 00:41:05.007
Catch you all next time.
00:00:03.593 --> 00:00:04.604
They sell a lot of volume.
00:00:05.068 --> 00:00:07.432
They've been asked for that data into their emissions.
00:00:07.432 --> 00:00:14.502
We actually realised that the kilogram CO2e per litre, was 0.77 kilograms CO2.
00:00:15.342 --> 00:00:27.371
So what that meant was that just by proxy of measuring their emissions, they actually help people like Tesco, and Waitrose, and Sainsbury's by giving them a 67% reduction in their emissions for the products that they buy
00:00:28.429 --> 00:00:28.850
Hi, everyone.
00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:31.960
Welcome to episode 51 of the sustainable supply chain podcast.
00:00:32.329 --> 00:00:39.200
Today's episode is very generously sponsored by MDSI, provider of industry leading IT solutions with a sustainable edge.
00:00:39.670 --> 00:00:43.880
My name is Tom Raftery and with me on the show today, I have my special guest, George.
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George, welcome to the podcast.
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Would you like to introduce yourself?
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:49.168
Yeah, absolutely.
00:00:49.168 --> 00:00:49.598
Hi, Tom.
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Thank you very much for having me.
00:00:50.749 --> 00:00:51.598
My name is George.
00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:54.609
I'm co founder of a company called Zevira.
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We help companies measure, reduce and report on their emissions.
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And the most important part of that is that we work with people that have really complex supply chains.
00:01:02.918 --> 00:01:05.028
So consumer goods, manufactured goods companies.
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And that's what I, love doing and helping, helping brands understand how they can unlock the data to be able to tell a better story around sustainability and ultimately the key thing being to reduce their emissions.
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But yeah, thanks for having me, Tom.
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Great.
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Yeah.
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And tell me, how did you get into this, George?
00:01:22.656 --> 00:01:29.046
my story into, carbon accounting, I think is it's quite interesting because it was something that I never knew about before.
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And.
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I was working in the waste industry and I was working with companies on helping them reduce their waste and ultimately trying to get things in the right bin.
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And it was actually during lockdown and during COVID, I made all my money in my previous company through bins being collected.
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And ultimately trying to do that during COVID was quite hard because no bins were being collected, at least on, trade premises.
00:01:54.379 --> 00:01:59.909
So I basically got told by my boss, Hey, if you want to keep a job, you kind of need to find a new source of revenue.
00:02:00.829 --> 00:02:11.090
So I ended up working on a lot of consultancy projects through the circular economy, and that was what our company was all about was how do we prevent waste and more about flow of resources.
00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:20.800
And one thing that I was working on was the University of Exeter project and actually working with their team on carbon accounting.
00:02:20.849 --> 00:02:26.069
And I was doing the waste element of making change and using the data from the carbon side to create change.
00:02:26.969 --> 00:03:01.314
And for me, the, kind of journey into carbon was that I realised that they had this big system and it was really archaic and actually they were spending loads of time on trying to get data that was better, but actually I found it really difficult as someone that's very action orientated to then go into, uh, I guess an organisational structure and a system in terms of carbon accounting at the time that was so related around how on earth do we get the data in, in the right place and ultimately found that if there was 10 hours to spend, nine hours was spent on data and discussions around data and one hour was on actual action.
00:03:01.764 --> 00:03:03.865
And for me, I, I was like, well, hold on a minute.
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I've got a load of SME clients that I can sell, carbon accounting to when I go back to my job.
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What solution is there out there for me, that I could go and try and find and sell to them?
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Because evidently this is not a system that works very well.
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So my journey really came into the discovery of what solutions on the market and this is 2020 and the you know there wasn't the tools like ourselves out there now and you know there's a number of carbon accounting tools and management tools out there now.
00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:34.409
But the time there really wasn't smart ways to measure your emissions, especially in that mid sized market as well.
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So my journey really came into it as an outsider of trying to understand what's possible.
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And I think the final thing that actually made me go wow, I'm all in on on trying to realise that this is actually where I can have the biggest impact on the planet in my personal career, and life is that I was focused on waste, and when I went through the data on waste, actually you’re talking about a very small percentage of emissions being created at the waste stage and actually I use this example a lot, I was working with companies that were talking about pallet wrap around a pallet of products, and they were so focused on the pallet wrap.
00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:24.579
when you look into the data, you actually realise that it's the products within that pallet wrap, which is the cause of the problems that we have in terms of emissions.
00:04:25.213 --> 00:04:25.562
Right.
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And that's the bit where I was like, right, okay, how do we uncover those invisible emissions, which is actually kind of the role that I think carbon accounting plays is in covering those visible emissions in a company supply chain.
00:04:37.889 --> 00:04:41.279
And yeah, basically from that point onwards, I was like, I can't work in waste anymore.
00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:43.500
I need to work where I can have the biggest impact.
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Okay, and so talk to me about the setup of Zavero.
00:04:50.610 --> 00:04:51.560
Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:54.367
So we are a team that are now global.
00:04:54.797 --> 00:05:00.607
So myself and my co founder, Ben who I met through the, my journey of discovering carbon accounting tools who was a carbon accountant.
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We started the company in 2021 officially.
00:05:04.237 --> 00:05:08.567
We were working on it in 2020, but we didn't know how to file our own company's house until 2021.
00:05:08.586 --> 00:05:11.036
That's the, the form hit the formation year officially.
00:05:11.666 --> 00:05:14.487
And we built that company for three years or so.
00:05:14.487 --> 00:05:21.237
And we were actually acquired by another organisation early in February, which is we've gone from two to four kind of founders.
00:05:22.107 --> 00:05:24.357
And now we have a global makeup.
00:05:24.357 --> 00:05:31.757
So originally Ben and myself, UK focus, we have clients across the world, but our focus was UK, Europe, a bit of North America.
00:05:32.086 --> 00:05:41.946
But now we're in a fantastic position where we have, I've got a team in Singapore and a team in Japan and then employees, you know, in Australia and New Zealand and North America as well.
00:05:41.956 --> 00:05:52.105
So it's a really fantastic journey that we've been on and as a company, I'm really proud that we're, global actually solving a global problem as well, which I think is the most important thing.
00:05:52.105 --> 00:06:01.055
And you know, there's lots of context between exports from Asia to the UK that we can be an incredible, Europe even we can be incredibly good at solving.
00:06:01.386 --> 00:06:06.036
But yeah, the makeup is changed a lot in the last three or four years is what I'd say So,
00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:07.738
Sure, sure, sure.
00:06:08.178 --> 00:06:19.238
And what would you say has surprised you most in your journey from being back then in waste to now being in a global company solving a global problem?
00:06:20.235 --> 00:06:22.091
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:06:22.091 --> 00:06:22.785
I'd say.
00:06:22.785 --> 00:06:23.130
Yeah.
00:06:24.995 --> 00:06:34.283
On the surprise, actually, I would say the, how quickly that people can buy into understanding what they need to do.
00:06:34.793 --> 00:06:41.882
And I think I talk about it a lot as I had that aha moment where I was like, I can't work in trying to remove plastic pallet wrap.
00:06:41.913 --> 00:06:46.562
I need to work on how do I help people understand that same conundrum I had.
00:06:46.973 --> 00:06:52.862
And I think seeing the change from when we have people that we're working with go from being.
00:06:53.458 --> 00:07:01.718
I have no idea about this to two, three years later as customers and they're speaking at sustainability events and the driving innovation and change within their organisation.
00:07:02.077 --> 00:07:15.108
I think for me, that's almost surprised me how quickly people can start to grapple with their data and start to actually create change that, you know, you maybe don't see it organisations where you have archaic systems, et cetera.
00:07:15.201 --> 00:07:18.591
So for me, that's the most interesting and also the most powerful.
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I think for, I feel proud of the work that we get to do.
00:07:23.038 --> 00:07:23.439
Nice.
00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:34.569
And how do you go from a startup that was just incorporated in 2021 to a global company by the end of 24?
00:07:35.127 --> 00:07:42.035
A lot of hard work, perseverance, and a lot of look I'd say, but I think main thing really has been that we've always listened to our customers.
00:07:42.084 --> 00:07:52.735
So within, this market, as, as we know, and everyone knows that listening to this, that there are a lot of solution providers, there are a lot of tools that are out there, but there's also a lot of challenges with some of those as well.
00:07:52.745 --> 00:08:04.329
So I think for us, what we've done a very good job of is going back to the fundamentals of actually making sure we measure emissions really, really accurately, doing it in the easiest possible way.
00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:18.149
And then from there, speaking to our customers about not just building features that everybody else might have, but actually features that are of value to customers or trying to understand their challenges rather than building something and sell it to them.
00:08:18.149 --> 00:08:29.790
So I think for me, that's listening to our customers and, understanding the problems that we solve and how we, create the, the solution has been the number one biggest thing for, for us ultimately.
00:08:30.790 --> 00:08:35.090
But yeah, there's a, lot of look and a lot of a lot of steps along the way.
00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.809
And what market segment are you addressing?
00:08:40.856 --> 00:08:42.417
Yeah, that's a really good question.
00:08:42.716 --> 00:08:51.317
I guess the right now and over the last three years, what we've been really focused on initially was how do we work with someone that will give us money?
00:08:51.726 --> 00:08:56.067
That was the first thing that Ben and I tried to do, you know as a startup we went What on earth?
00:08:56.826 --> 00:08:58.157
Yeah, I I think so.
00:08:58.197 --> 00:09:01.397
I think so who's gonna pay us money and how do we scale it?
00:09:02.086 --> 00:09:08.907
And then we quickly realised actually that we need to create something where we have value across every customer that we work with.
00:09:08.907 --> 00:09:15.157
So we've worked over the last three years, predominantly with consumer goods companies, FMCG, manufactured goods.
00:09:15.167 --> 00:09:26.756
So it can be anyone from drinks brands, confectionery, cleaning products et cetera, but then we also work with organisations that have large amount of their emissions from their supply chain and service based industries.
00:09:27.006 --> 00:09:33.937
So it's, it's a slightly different problem, but it's actually the same sort of challenge that they're facing is how do they get great data?
00:09:34.126 --> 00:09:42.466
So if you work with a creative agency, how do you understand the emissions of flights and how do you make interventions of changes to, to reduce the impact of those?
00:09:42.476 --> 00:09:54.692
So whilst I wouldn't want to say that we're industry agnostic, we work best with companies that are manufactured goods and ultimately buy products produce a good and sell it.
00:09:54.711 --> 00:09:57.881
We, we also do a great job for service based agencies as well.
00:09:58.192 --> 00:09:59.682
So service based companies, sorry.
00:09:59.761 --> 00:10:07.341
So we end up with a really good mix of clients, but ultimately they all share that same common problem, which is that they've got a lot of supply chain emissions.
00:10:07.812 --> 00:10:13.282
They maybe don't have a lot of control over those emissions in the sense of, you know, it's not their factories, et cetera, et cetera.
00:10:13.986 --> 00:10:22.866
And that ultimately that they want to be able to get better ways to reduce their emissions by having a more accurate kind of streamlined process for that data collection.
00:10:24.250 --> 00:10:24.659
Okay.
00:10:25.100 --> 00:10:33.812
And are you enabling people to measure and report scope three as well as scope one and two?
00:10:34.409 --> 00:10:35.090
Absolutely.
00:10:35.129 --> 00:10:37.379
Yeah, that's the biggest thing that for us.
00:10:37.580 --> 00:10:40.460
I mean, we've literally got some companies that don't have any scope one and two emissions.
00:10:40.774 --> 00:10:45.274
All the way through to, yeah, I mean, you know, they they work out of a, a leased office.
00:10:45.705 --> 00:10:48.485
They have everything is basically within their supply chain.
00:10:48.955 --> 00:10:51.335
So for us, that's the bit that we do very well.
00:10:51.384 --> 00:10:55.215
And I think that that's also, you know, that shared problem across a number of different industries.
00:10:55.215 --> 00:10:59.845
It could be you're a pet food supplier, or you could be a a chemical company.
00:10:59.875 --> 00:11:04.794
Ultimately, you're going to have a lot of your emissions come from, supply chains.
00:11:05.230 --> 00:11:08.370
And, and that's the bit that we've, we've found to work very well.
00:11:08.419 --> 00:11:13.889
And the systems that we have and the processes that we've built have, I've serviced that market the best, essentially.
00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:15.539
Scope one or two is easy.
00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.879
I yeah, it's, you know, it can be complex, but realistically, relatively easy.
00:11:20.889 --> 00:11:21.820
Yeah, exactly.
00:11:22.982 --> 00:12:04.372
So if I am a small services based company working out of a leased office and most of my emissions are in my supply chain, how do I gather and report those?
00:12:04.602 --> 00:12:06.982
Because they're not mine, not my data.
00:12:08.019 --> 00:12:08.590
Yeah.
00:12:08.649 --> 00:12:10.139
So it's a really good question.
00:12:10.439 --> 00:12:17.199
And and I guess just on that, that's the type of company, which I think in terms of the sophistication of the solution that you need.
00:12:18.350 --> 00:12:22.269
We do really well for those, you know, really complex supply chain and consumer goods.
00:12:22.269 --> 00:12:28.189
But if you think about as a, let's say I'm a creative agency with 25 people in an office, I'm based in London.
00:12:28.189 --> 00:12:29.689
So let's just say we have an office in London.
00:12:30.409 --> 00:12:31.299
Getting that data.
00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:35.120
It seems like a really hard task, but it's actually relatively simple.
00:12:36.389 --> 00:12:48.480
There will be data often now with through your offices as part of, you know, your, if you go and ask them, well, Hey, what were the average kilowatt hours per square meter or for my office or whatever it might be?
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:51.199
So that's, that's just one part of the puzzle on collecting that data.
00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:58.809
But any provider that you work with, that's good, should be able to give you averages if that's not as possible and use it as a recommendation for next year.
00:12:59.654 --> 00:13:10.454
And then when it comes to that supply chain data, you know, realistically for service based providers, it's, do you track asset registers and, you know, things like laptops and things, which are going to be a big source of your physical quantity emissions.
00:13:11.095 --> 00:13:19.904
But then it's actually about how do you get data from how much you spend, which I don't advocate for spend based emissions for anything other than basically services.
00:13:20.014 --> 00:13:33.079
So you're never going to be able to do physical quantity for things like Facebook ad spend or whatever it might be, but actually that's where we integrate with really great tools where we do spend based emission factors using company reported data.
00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:39.319
So, Facebook, Google, everybody reports on there as emissions to CDP and SBTI.
00:13:39.959 --> 00:13:51.269
So instead of using industry averages, effectively, it's about working with your suppliers to understand what's actually who has set targets to reduce their impact and what are the goals that they're going on so that you can understand that journey.
00:13:51.269 --> 00:13:56.419
But yeah, we've, we've got some great tools that we integrate with that basically allow us to pull that, that information.
00:13:57.004 --> 00:14:10.904
And interesting fact, actually Salesforce, I think it is because they measure and report their emissions, Salesforce's emissions compared to the average about 99.8% percent lower than, than the average figure.
00:14:11.404 --> 00:14:20.454
And that's purely because I have obviously how averages work, but the fact that it just shows the importance of you measuring your emissions.
00:14:21.235 --> 00:14:28.404
Because then you can actually understand that, okay, even if we're using proxies, we are lower than, than average, et cetera.
00:14:28.424 --> 00:14:40.284
That's, that's kind of the, I think the most important thing from that is that the journey that you go on as a if you take that example as a small company, it doesn't have to be all at once.
00:14:40.334 --> 00:14:42.554
There are easy tools available to collect that data.
00:14:42.865 --> 00:14:48.201
It's not that big of a task if you have the right processes and the right partner to, deal with that as well.
00:14:48.911 --> 00:14:51.101
Don't sit there and think, oh my gosh, it's so scary.
00:14:51.101 --> 00:14:51.961
I can't do this.
00:14:52.072 --> 00:15:00.442
Just think about, okay, what's the first step and how do we make progress and what's, what's the initial parts that we can, we can do rather than not doing anything effectively.
00:15:01.555 --> 00:15:14.730
Okay, and if I am that small, 25 person, organi sation in a leased office, how can I afford a solution that, is going to report on emissions for me?
00:15:14.730 --> 00:15:39.139
I mean, it's, is it the case that I can pass that cost on to my customers who are probably demanding it anyway that I report, or is it just a cost of doing business, is it something that's going to give me competitive advantage, or do I just have to do it because regulations because customers or you know where are people in that kind of spectrum?
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.720
Yeah, it's it's a good question.
00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:51.539
I think in terms of this if we take this example 25 people, small company, service based offices is really around who do you service and what's the value that that would bring to them.
00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:58.100
You know, you look at the rise of B Corp and things like that is, it's actually a really good framework for you to operate in.
00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:05.850
So I do think that there are a lot of free tools and a lot of free solutions and frameworks that you can work through before you have to pay any money to people like me.
00:16:06.794 --> 00:16:32.615
Those, you know, those sides of companies, I, I don't think that you have to necessarily spend money to make progress often with, with this sort of stuff, which obviously is the, the honesty that I would prefer to share rather than say, yeah, come and speak to me and I'll, I'll tell you all of the great reasons we can, we can work together, but actually it's a case of, I think that the real driver for this is it is becoming a, almost a hygiene factor in the way that companies assess operations.
00:16:32.615 --> 00:16:44.803
If we're we're wanting to look for a new web developer or wanting to look for an SEO agency or whatever it might be like for us as a company, we'll try and always advocate for B Corp or organisations or, or whatever it might be.
00:16:44.803 --> 00:16:49.533
Do have companies that have actively look to reduce their emissions or making change?
00:16:50.103 --> 00:17:10.153
So I think that that becomes an increasingly important process where you do have customers that are asking for this and it does become a cost of doing business, but I don't think you need to have the same level of data complexity and also decarbonisation, as you know, a Meta or a or a bigger organisation.
00:17:10.764 --> 00:17:27.713
It's actually just about what's right for you and do you, can you position yourself in in a way that allows you to, to showcase why it's important for you and why you care about this, rather than it just being a tick box exercise, which I don't think anyone's really going to kind of believe long term is the the reason they'd want to work with you, for example.
00:17:28.688 --> 00:17:39.638
Right, right and if you're saying it's reasonably easy to collect that data, then what are the actual challenges that the companies you're working with?
00:17:39.668 --> 00:17:41.918
What are the main challenges that they're coming up against?
00:17:42.704 --> 00:17:43.834
Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:43.834 --> 00:17:51.069
I mean, maybe just to, to go back on that, that those companies that are 25 people in an office, a service based agency are not the people that we work with.
00:17:51.069 --> 00:17:59.519
We work with, the largest independent creative agency in the world, which there's 1500 employees, but they actually face kind of similar problems.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:08.129
We work with maybe 25 people in an office, but they sell tens of millions pounds worth of products because they're a product based company that outsource their production for example.
00:18:08.639 --> 00:18:11.945
So that's like just a, point to note there.
00:18:13.025 --> 00:18:23.072
And ultimately, when it comes to those challenges and the way that you collect that data and that process, I think, for us, where we've done a very, very good job is integrating with ERP systems.
00:18:23.961 --> 00:18:30.772
So if we think about it as you actually, for most companies, they already have the data that they need to calculate emissions.
00:18:30.812 --> 00:18:39.557
And obviously, there's a it's very complex, but realistically, you're all you're doing is timesing an activity that you do as a business, with an emission factor.
00:18:39.987 --> 00:18:41.096
It's relatively simple.
00:18:41.647 --> 00:18:55.027
The activity might be that you are buying 10,000 aluminum cans for a soft drink company, or it might be that you're taking a business class flight from the UK to New York because you're going to go and sell products in New York.
00:18:55.096 --> 00:18:58.647
So really it's around what data do you have within your systems?
00:18:59.662 --> 00:19:00.772
And how do we get that?
00:19:00.832 --> 00:19:05.189
And that's what I think I talked about earlier, that for scope three, we've done a great job of.
00:19:06.028 --> 00:19:14.319
It's actually recognising that there is the simple formula is how do we get the data you already have in your system into our system so we can understand how to calculate the emissions.
00:19:15.399 --> 00:19:20.319
And I think that that's the kind of the most important thing that you don't have to necessarily always reinvent the wheel.
00:19:21.679 --> 00:19:24.169
It's just about, right, this is what we've got.
00:19:24.798 --> 00:19:26.439
Maybe we lack in certain areas.
00:19:26.449 --> 00:19:30.509
Most companies don't track business travel very well because they all track how much money they spent on it.
00:19:30.809 --> 00:19:33.869
They won't track where they flew to and from and how many kilometers it was.
00:19:34.439 --> 00:19:38.729
So you just do that over time and you add those layers of additional data collection in.
00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:43.139
And, and that's the bit that we, we help companies with and we find to do really well.
00:19:44.553 --> 00:19:58.056
Okay, do you have any customer success stories you can speak to, X company, to your point, like, with Salesforce, where they have got down 99% or they're 99% lower than their peers?
00:19:58.646 --> 00:20:01.806
Any, any kind of similar data that you can share about some of your customers.
00:20:02.412 --> 00:20:03.422
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:03.422 --> 00:20:08.832
We we're very fortunate enough that we've had a number of success stories from our clients, which is always, great to have.
00:20:09.282 --> 00:20:15.359
I think one that I, think is really interesting, from the product based companies that we work with.
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.449
We work with a fantastic drinks brand in the UK called Jubel.
00:20:18.889 --> 00:20:22.719
They produce a peach lager, which is inspiration from the Alps.
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:33.009
Interestingly enough, I actually used to drink their beer at university because they went to the same university as me, did the founders, and I was on the Surf society team.
00:20:33.069 --> 00:20:38.439
And they used to say, Hey, George, let me give you a load of beer so that you can give it to surf members.
00:20:38.439 --> 00:20:39.749
And I was like, yes, please.
00:20:39.798 --> 00:20:40.479
I will do that.
00:20:40.489 --> 00:20:45.329
So they have, they've really filled me with joy for the last 10 years of my life.
00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:46.819
Not just the last three years of my life.
00:20:46.969 --> 00:20:50.804
With them, we've been working with them for, for, three years or so now.
00:20:50.804 --> 00:20:52.714
So more or less since we kind of started.
00:20:53.514 --> 00:20:58.360
And success story number one from them was that they were using somebody else before.
00:20:58.470 --> 00:21:00.360
They were going, they would used a consultancy.
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.100
They didn't actually measure any of their, product based emissions.
00:21:04.110 --> 00:21:05.930
Cause they, again, the outsourced, some of that.
00:21:07.050 --> 00:21:13.850
And ultimately what we decided was that we worked with them for them to realise that that's not an accurate reflection of their emissions.
00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:19.144
So number one, we measured their emissions with, accuracy, granular detail.
00:21:19.765 --> 00:21:29.705
And we did that easily through simple tools like bulk upload features and be able to do matching but also through different integrations and things like that.
00:21:30.445 --> 00:21:37.300
That's always an incredibly good thing when we can show people that the change from what it used to be like, to what it's like now.
00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:46.820
And we have a number of those stories, but I think the second part for Jubel and the reason why I really liked that as a success story is that it kind of leads back to what we've discussed.
00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:55.610
And a lot of companies are really concerned about, Oh, well, we need to measure emissions and what if we're good or not good, or if we start talking about this, we might not actually be doing very well.
00:21:56.210 --> 00:22:01.680
Well with Jubel, they've been asked to report this data into big supermarkets here in the UK.
00:22:02.655 --> 00:22:02.905
Okay.
00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:03.940
They sell a lot of volume.
00:22:04.405 --> 00:22:06.768
They've been asked for that data into their emissions.
00:22:06.768 --> 00:22:13.838
We actually realised that the kilogram CO2e per litre, was 0.77 kilograms CO2.
00:22:14.678 --> 00:22:26.728
So what that meant was that just by proxy of measuring their emissions, they actually help people like Tesco, and Waitrose, and Sainsbury's by giving them a 67% reduction in their emissions for the products that they buy.
00:22:26.768 --> 00:22:33.423
So I think for me as a small organisation that you know, they were 10 people when they started working with us.
00:22:33.423 --> 00:22:34.813
They've got around 50 people now.
00:22:35.753 --> 00:22:37.953
They've actually made a really good journey.
00:22:38.633 --> 00:22:45.733
And they've had a lot of value from that get go and being able to provide that number to the supermarkets who then can say, well, great.
00:22:45.743 --> 00:22:53.263
If we buy Jubel versus competitor B, which is maybe not even as good, we're also going to have 67% fewer emissions.
00:22:53.503 --> 00:22:56.018
So we're going to increase our order by 20%.
00:22:56.028 --> 00:23:11.567
So I think that those sorts of stories of where data has allowed people to communicate the change that they can make and the benefit of purchasing their product versus the alternative, I think is something that I really enjoy because that's the, you know, going back to the beginning, it's how do we use the data?
00:23:11.567 --> 00:23:16.348
Not only to to help understand where our impact comes from and how we can reduce it.
00:23:16.358 --> 00:23:17.508
That's the most important part.
00:23:17.508 --> 00:23:22.658
But it's also how you can communicate the value that you're bringing to to your buyers and to your customers effectively.
00:23:23.078 --> 00:23:25.067
Yeah, that's that's maybe one of many Tom.
00:23:25.448 --> 00:23:28.548
If we had more time, I could get into into the details of many more.
00:23:29.368 --> 00:23:46.143
But to that point as well, when people do start on that measurement journey, have you any examples that you can share either with a named company or not of companies who have looked at their data and gone, Oh, my gosh, we've got that much emissions in that space.
00:23:46.143 --> 00:23:47.273
Let's tackle that.
00:23:48.184 --> 00:23:49.913
Yeah, it's a really good question.
00:23:50.004 --> 00:23:51.084
We've had couple actually.
00:23:51.124 --> 00:24:05.667
There's a couple where we've been able to turn really complex scope, three, data processes into really simplified, which has helped them go, oh, okay, not only is that easier to measure every year, but we can actually track that going forward.
00:24:05.667 --> 00:24:11.277
And we know that while we had proxies last year, our emissions are much more clear now.
00:24:12.107 --> 00:24:13.547
So that's, that's an example.
00:24:13.547 --> 00:24:19.927
We just had with a client that has essentially 20 million records that we've analysed from their purchases.
00:24:20.272 --> 00:24:23.461
And being able to actually granularly work out where those emissions come from.
00:24:23.542 --> 00:24:31.409
And for them, interestingly enough, a big source of their emissions actually came from the, this, they sell effectively a hydration tablets.
00:24:32.219 --> 00:24:38.322
And they sell water bottles, like stainless steel water bottles so that you can refill you know, your bottles.
00:24:38.622 --> 00:24:41.922
But one of the biggest source of emissions is that they produce those bottles themselves.
00:24:42.362 --> 00:24:46.687
And it's stainless steel, but actually it's, that's a big source of emissions, but is that a problem?
00:24:47.537 --> 00:24:50.227
Because whilst they can decarbonise it's what's the alternative?
00:24:50.417 --> 00:24:53.107
People buying hundreds of bottles in that process.
00:24:53.117 --> 00:24:55.557
So that's one thing that we found very interesting.
00:24:55.557 --> 00:25:02.527
You can uncover with the data that sometimes the biggest source of your emissions is something you need to tackle, but it's also part of the success of you as a company.
00:25:02.607 --> 00:25:05.537
So that's one that I found very interesting.
00:25:06.107 --> 00:25:09.687
And I think one other one, which I I'll come back to another brewery.
00:25:09.817 --> 00:25:14.207
Which we do have lots of different clients, but those are two really good case studies.
00:25:14.737 --> 00:25:18.767
We worked with a client who outsourced production of their beer to Scotland.
00:25:19.346 --> 00:25:24.207
They're London based, they sell most of their beer in London, but it was cheaper to produce in Scotland.
00:25:25.247 --> 00:25:35.947
Now, the problem with that is that on average about 15% of companies that we work with have their emissions from their transportation, in terms of getting their product from factory to customers.
00:25:36.767 --> 00:25:41.777
But when we did the data, we actually realised that they had about 25% of their emissions come from the transportation.
00:25:42.336 --> 00:25:49.076
And that is because they were shipping water beer down from Scotland to sell locally.
00:25:49.257 --> 00:26:03.367
Now, what we were able to do, which I think is the most important part of that is they went to that brewery in Scotland because they were a little bit more cost effective, but they also have great sustainability credentials that they were kind of outweighed by the shipping.
00:26:04.127 --> 00:26:07.600
So what they actually did was they found a really great brewer in Sussex.
00:26:08.250 --> 00:26:09.860
Where they produce the beer there instead.
00:26:10.415 --> 00:26:13.644
And then they ship more locally to the regions that they sell to.
00:26:13.675 --> 00:26:23.179
So I think that that's just a couple of examples where what we've been able to do is use that data to tell a really good story and to, really make, change and create change.
00:26:23.179 --> 00:26:33.925
Yeah, it's, it's genuinely phenomenal for, for me and my co founder to be able to be provide a solution that allows companies to actually do that I think is is awesome.
00:26:34.175 --> 00:26:35.035
It's really cool to see
00:26:36.355 --> 00:26:36.705
Okay.
00:26:36.705 --> 00:26:42.705
and we often focus on carbon reduction as an environmental necessity, which obviously it is.
00:26:42.705 --> 00:26:50.245
But are there any surprising non environmental business benefits that companies have experienced through this journey?
00:26:50.285 --> 00:26:55.525
Maybe a boost in unexpected areas like team morale or even creative innovation?
00:26:56.335 --> 00:27:03.285
Yeah, I think one thing there's there's obviously a number of different ways that climate is is great and taking action and reductions.
00:27:03.285 --> 00:27:13.380
I think that when you bring people on that journey that's first first and foremost, so your team itself that you already have buying into the idea that you're a great company to work for is obviously a fantastic thing.
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:20.360
And as I now have a team of 50 people around the world, I realise having a happy team is really important and it's also quite expensive.
00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:21.009
Right.
00:27:21.009 --> 00:27:23.070
You know, you've got to make sure that everyone's happy.
00:27:23.070 --> 00:27:24.320
So we're very fortunate.
00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:26.290
We have a great purpose for people to get behind.
00:27:26.290 --> 00:27:29.330
So be able to give that to other companies I think, I think is fantastic.
00:27:30.144 --> 00:27:35.305
There are a number of different things not just on that, I guess, that employee retention, but actually attraction.
00:27:36.115 --> 00:27:39.815
And I can't tell you the amount of people that we get apply for the roles that we advertise.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.230
Because they want to be part of a company that's, you know, making a change.
00:27:43.690 --> 00:27:45.830
So I think that that's one area.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:54.110
And then there are a number of different things in terms of, you know, there will be cost drivers and people effectively be able to make changes that save them money.
00:27:54.110 --> 00:27:55.940
And especially when it comes to energy, right?
00:27:55.970 --> 00:28:03.570
If you're one of the companies that we, we work with, quite a lot of them have around 15, 20% of scope one and two emissions.
00:28:04.405 --> 00:28:13.009
If we can work with them understanding how they can reduce their energy consumption, you know, they're saving money first and foremost, as their emissions are coming down.
00:28:13.009 --> 00:28:21.639
So, yes, everything from, you know, employee retention, employee hiring cost savings, and then just general, I think, from a sales perspective.
00:28:22.589 --> 00:28:36.369
When you have those things combined and together, you have a motivated team and you have a passionate group of people, you can talk about this stuff with real belief and conviction, rather than saying, yeah, we've ticked a box and we've carbon offset 10% of our emissions or things like that.
00:28:36.879 --> 00:28:39.298
But yeah, there are, there are many benefits.
00:28:39.379 --> 00:28:42.989
It's what keeps me getting up every day and telling the story that we, we do.
00:28:43.708 --> 00:28:52.988
Fantastic, and what metrics or KPIs should companies focus on to measure the success of their initiatives, and ensure continuous improvement?
00:28:53.798 --> 00:28:55.579
Yeah, that's just a really good question.
00:28:55.719 --> 00:29:07.849
I actually think I'm going to break that down into two different types of company because there'll be companies or people in this that are listening to it who are in fast growth companies where their emissions are actually going rise year on year.
00:29:08.259 --> 00:29:13.809
So, science based targets, everything like that, they've all been built for big organisations.
00:29:14.429 --> 00:29:28.528
That fundamentally does not work for fast growing organisations because with science based targets, if you are a big organisation, let's say you're a Unilever or a Procter Gamble, you should absolutely be measuring emissions on an absolute basis.
00:29:28.798 --> 00:29:34.509
And you should be making, you know, 5% year on year reductions in line with science based targets.
00:29:35.209 --> 00:29:40.349
But if you're a company that's growing at 300% a year, you're not going to be able to grow on an absolute basis.
00:29:41.009 --> 00:29:44.849
So I think that in terms of KPIs, we have to think about it slightly differently.
00:29:45.209 --> 00:29:49.909
Now we often look to implement emission intensity metrics.
00:29:50.364 --> 00:30:04.244
Which I understand also are the problem that I have with that is that you're still actually producing more emissions into the atmosphere, but then, so it's, you know, it's a challenge because, but then what's the other consideration?
00:30:04.254 --> 00:30:06.244
Everybody shuts down and we don't sell any more products.
00:30:06.344 --> 00:30:29.497
And actually, if you think about some of the great customers that we work with, especially in that innovation space, water hydration companies that are able to substitute the need to buy Coca Cola by replacing it, replacing it with hydration droplets, which are lighter, which are cheaper to transport and fewer emissions on transportation, but then they also remove the need for single use plastic bottles.
00:30:29.557 --> 00:30:36.727
Now, actually the success of those companies will bring down the overall impact that we have on the planet.
00:30:36.787 --> 00:30:42.957
So sometimes it's slightly different and you can think about it as a mission intensity metrics first and foremost for growth companies.
00:30:43.502 --> 00:30:47.172
But then is it really, what is it that you're trying to achieve and what's the true mission?
00:30:48.292 --> 00:30:53.552
We have some, another example, we have a fantastic group of companies that sell canned wine.
00:30:54.342 --> 00:30:57.072
Now, wine in a bottle, phenomenal.
00:30:57.882 --> 00:31:01.342
Everybody, you know, a glass of wine, fantastic.
00:31:01.932 --> 00:31:10.812
But actually what, what's really interesting as a packaging format, glass, the ship from, let's say, New Zealand or Chile or wherever it is, it's really heavy.
00:31:11.902 --> 00:31:13.662
And there's a lot of emissions associated with that.
00:31:13.721 --> 00:31:16.612
You know, the innovation of wine in a can and things like that.
00:31:16.622 --> 00:31:34.697
It's not only the packagings for your emissions, but then you also think about the fact that, I mean, for me, I'm a, I'm a lightweight, I'll have one glass of wine and I'll be asleep basically, if I'm you know, having a glass of wine on a Friday, night and the other rest of the bottle I end up using the last third of it basically for cooking always because it's gone not so good.
00:31:34.817 --> 00:31:40.977
That's, that's a typical routine for, for me, I'll open a bottle of wine, have one glass, maybe have the second one on a Saturday.
00:31:41.267 --> 00:31:43.777
And then by the end of the week, I don't need any more.
00:31:43.777 --> 00:31:45.137
And it's gone bad.
00:31:45.137 --> 00:31:53.407
So the innovation that by selling more of your products, you can actually reduce things like food waste and and the production of wine that's going to waste.
00:31:53.417 --> 00:32:05.657
So I think that there can be really specific things that customers, and, and businesses and organisations can track, which are outside of the typical, what have you reduced your scope one and two emissions by.
00:32:06.100 --> 00:32:12.867
For me, I find that really interesting because it points to a more of a purpose, you know, based organisation of, of what matters to you.
00:32:13.532 --> 00:32:19.152
Yeah, those, those sorts of stories and communication and, and, and things is something that I, I love doing.
00:32:19.242 --> 00:32:30.032
So if there's, you know, if there's people listening that want to understand how it actually applies to them, I will gladly use my calendar and time to, to make sure that I can think about what those KPIs are for you.
00:32:30.032 --> 00:32:35.961
And, and ultimately how the measurement part will allow you to, to do that, Cause that's the most important thing there as well.
00:32:35.961 --> 00:32:36.152
Right.
00:32:37.142 --> 00:32:42.152
You can't set and track and run these KPIs without actually doing that data collection first.
00:32:43.362 --> 00:32:46.632
Yeah, where where's all this going?
00:32:46.632 --> 00:32:49.092
You know where, where's this industry going to go in the next 5, 10 years?
00:32:49.092 --> 00:32:50.892
Yeah, it's a really, really great question.
00:32:50.932 --> 00:32:57.032
I think there is a lot of, there's been a lot of tools, as we all know, in the last five, six years.
00:32:58.002 --> 00:33:10.442
And I think that we're starting to see, and we've seen a lot in the market, that naturally the cream rises to the top and that the people that are doing a really, really good job with a, I think a forward looking future.
00:33:11.382 --> 00:33:15.822
So for us, we've always thought about how do we work with companies to 2030 to 2040?
00:33:16.082 --> 00:33:17.451
That's the business that we want to be in.
00:33:18.102 --> 00:33:28.552
We don't want to be in a business that effectively does a really good job for two years, and then we're effectively out of business because we've sold somebody offsets that are not very good or whatever it might be.
00:33:28.552 --> 00:33:33.162
So I think that where we're seeing is fewer number of people.
00:33:33.567 --> 00:33:35.727
But operating in more niche roles.
00:33:36.687 --> 00:33:41.437
So we work with some really great industries, you know, in that consumer goods, manufactured goods sector.
00:33:42.317 --> 00:33:45.387
And I think that we have a lot of knowledge that we can share.
00:33:45.437 --> 00:33:49.667
We've got 50, 60 people that are basically the same supply chain set up.
00:33:50.076 --> 00:33:57.397
And we can share, you know, knowledge and we can share resources between them and ultimately share ways to reduce their emissions.
00:33:57.407 --> 00:34:04.294
So I think that that's one route that we're going to go down is smaller number of people doing a better job for the target audience.
00:34:05.139 --> 00:34:10.768
And then I think that we're also going to start to see a lot more communication between organisations.
00:34:10.829 --> 00:34:13.099
So, we have a Product Carbon Footprint tool.
00:34:13.248 --> 00:34:18.318
We believe strongly in that as a future tool, mainly for that collaboration between companies.
00:34:18.788 --> 00:34:27.768
As I mentioned, that Jubel example, people want to know what your emissions are, and you, maybe you don't need to do an Oatly and put it on your packaging, but you need to be able to communicate something.
00:34:28.809 --> 00:34:32.568
Your number now and that journey over time to, to, your buyers.
00:34:33.559 --> 00:35:00.594
And I think that things like the PACT framework are going to be incredibly, incredibly useful for sharing that data and, and ultimately having a way to have better people in more tailored industries so that people have great resources that're fit for them, but also more data sharing and communication between organisations and I think Carbon Accounting Alliance, another example of where that's been phenomenal as an organisation for them to put that together.
00:35:01.914 --> 00:35:10.034
'Cos, at the minute you can't compare apples and apples with a lot of the stuff that happens in carbon accounting and it makes it really challenging, even for us as a service provider, right?
00:35:10.443 --> 00:35:18.153
Because we can't actually say to somebody, yeah, your emissions are 25% lower than this person's because we don't know what the other person's measured.
00:35:19.054 --> 00:35:23.934
And we don't know whether they've missed out so critically important things that we would important to measure.
00:35:24.364 --> 00:35:32.923
So, I think that there's, those are kind of two, two projections is that it is going to be clear on who, who there is in the market and who they serve.
00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:42.345
And then ultimately on how we collaborate more as a market and between everyone as well because that's the bit that will get us to net zero.
00:35:42.345 --> 00:35:45.454
It's the shared, you know, shared journey that we're all on ultimately.
00:35:46.630 --> 00:35:50.480
And allowing companies to compare apples to apples as it were
00:35:51.635 --> 00:35:52.894
Exactly, exactly.
00:35:53.095 --> 00:35:56.894
Your Granny Smith to your Braeburn and not your Granny Smith to your pears, basically.
00:35:56.894 --> 00:35:58.494
There you go.
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:01.110
Quick left field question.
00:36:02.179 --> 00:36:02.668
question.
00:36:02.668 --> 00:36:17.628
If you could have any person, or character, alive or dead, real or fictional, as a spokesperson for carbon accounting, responsible carbon accounting, who would it be, and why?
00:36:19.775 --> 00:36:20.934
That's a really good question.
00:36:22.704 --> 00:36:31.555
I'm gonna say I'm, my temptation there is go with someone like a voice of command, like a David Attenborough, or somebody like that.
00:36:31.575 --> 00:36:34.244
But I think that a lot of those people exist.
00:36:34.365 --> 00:36:47.535
I'm actually gonna go for a, a slightly left field answer and not because I think that I necessarily agree with everything they say, but actually because I think that it will be more uniting, people together around it.
00:36:47.555 --> 00:37:03.535
And I'm actually going to say someone like Elon Musk, because whilst, whilst he's I don't necessarily agree with this politics just to put that out there, but I actually think that if you think about someone that's an innovator, someone that has a really great sense of how do we solve a problem?
00:37:04.325 --> 00:37:15.025
And then you combine that with, I guess, like the, right wing non net zero agenda, it might actually bring people together rather than just speaking to the same, same audience.
00:37:15.075 --> 00:37:15.394
Yeah.
00:37:16.309 --> 00:37:29.099
I wouldn't go as far as saying Donald Trump to be the spokesperson of carbon accounting, I would at least say that maybe it's somebody that can bring the group of everyone that believes whether this is right or wrong and ultimately bring those people together.
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:33.180
So yeah, politics aside from it, I think that that's my, that's my answer.
00:37:33.230 --> 00:37:34.559
Great, great, great.
00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:46.539
Ok, we are coming towards the end of the podcast now George, is there any question I did not ask that you wish I did, or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it is important for people to think about?
00:37:48.510 --> 00:37:49.150
Not necessarily.
00:37:49.150 --> 00:38:06.795
I just think that from, from the perspective of the listener, I think, you know, we, I talk a lot for me, we we've talked about it quite a bit but, It's how do we make sure that people understand that it's a journey that they're about to go on, and the answers that they they need don't happen in the first first year.
00:38:06.795 --> 00:38:18.190
And it is that journey between now and 2030 and 2040 And having someone that can help you understand instead of being almost in your mind manic of, Oh my gosh, we need to make loads of change.
00:38:18.190 --> 00:38:19.809
We need to solve all these problems.
00:38:20.680 --> 00:38:27.700
It's actually quite fundamental how we can break it down and start to see what's possible now, what's possible next and what's possible in the future.
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:39.845
And I think for me, not only does data help you do that, but having great people that you can surround yourself, whether it's a carbon partner like ourselves as Zevero, but also whether it's people in your industry.
00:38:40.335 --> 00:38:43.474
That will help you go actually, that was really hard for us to do.
00:38:44.295 --> 00:38:45.535
We're not able to do it now.
00:38:45.625 --> 00:38:54.235
I think that's the bit that the message that I always want to make clear is that we want to be the people for that journey and that that journey is not overnight.
00:38:54.494 --> 00:39:00.204
It wouldn't be, we wouldn't have a problem if sustainability was easy is what I would say.
00:39:00.275 --> 00:39:06.785
So that's the, the main thing for me is really just that I think there's a lot of stress, a lot of burnout in this industry.
00:39:06.785 --> 00:39:20.088
And I think that for a lot of people, they need to realise that it's, it is not just all on them to do in the first year, but no, it's been, it's been great chatting Tom.
00:39:20.509 --> 00:39:21.108
Yeah, likewise, likewise.
00:39:21.108 --> 00:39:26.052
If people George would like to know more about yourself, or any of the things we discussed here today where would you have me direct them?
00:39:26.874 --> 00:39:27.773
Yeah, absolutely.
00:39:27.834 --> 00:39:28.644
Zevero.
00:39:28.664 --> 00:39:29.764
earth is our website.
00:39:29.844 --> 00:39:48.184
hopefully it'll be in show notes, but, another area where I, I would always plug people visit is I call myself an ardent climate optimist I write a blog every two weeks called the grumpy optimist essentially sharing why we have hope and faith left in in the planet and and the challenges that we can solve.
00:39:48.235 --> 00:39:51.954
If people want to communicate with me via through Zevero through linkedin.
00:39:52.295 --> 00:40:04.925
And also I I will always subtly plug, the blog because it is a labor of love sometimes my sunday sunday afternoons and evenings recapping two weeks of positive climate news is something that I want other people to enjoy as much as as much as I do.
00:40:06.349 --> 00:40:06.710
Nice.
00:40:06.809 --> 00:40:07.070
Great.
00:40:07.410 --> 00:40:09.059
I'll put a link to those in the show notes, George.
00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:10.420
So everyone has access to them.
00:40:11.269 --> 00:40:11.639
Super
00:40:11.815 --> 00:40:12.224
Thank you
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:13.910
That's been fantastic.
00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:15.510
Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.
00:40:16.215 --> 00:40:16.704
Absolutely.
00:40:16.704 --> 00:40:16.925
Tom.
00:40:16.974 --> 00:40:17.644
Thanks for having me.
00:40:18.711 --> 00:40:19.211
Okay.
00:40:19.231 --> 00:40:24.722
Thank you all for tuning into this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery.
00:40:25.922 --> 00:40:29.902
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00:40:30.572 --> 00:40:36.561
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00:40:58.577 --> 00:41:02.427
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00:41:03.106 --> 00:41:03.497
Thanks.
00:41:04.137 --> 00:41:05.007
Catch you all next time.
