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Language: en
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Okay, then it looks like we're
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recording, which is good.
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Hello and welcome to question and answer
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number 191.
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I am your host, Pony Bossa, and it is
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that time of day on a Sunday afternoon
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when the light is coming through the
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blinds just right so that I've got these
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horizontal bars of light across my face.
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Do not worry. It's not anything
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paranormal.
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This is my beverage. I haven't already I
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haven't already said that. You know,
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just the the flurry of just starting a
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new Q&A sometimes can result in confused
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mindfulness.
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H. And 191 is a prime number as far as I
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can tell. So, we're in the prime of our
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lives at this moment.
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And let's see anything else I got to say
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by way of introduction before wading
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into this. We might be interrupted a
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little bit. I might be distracted during
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the course of this Q&A because my woman
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is expecting company.
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So with that as an excuse for any
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imperfections in this Q&A, suppose I
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should just wade right into this. And
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there's not going to be a whole lot of
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questions this time. know it's low 20s
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so kind of at the lower end which is
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fine.
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First question is from Romeo
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and Romeo says if I am correct the
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philosophical theory called natural law
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with N and L capitalized natural law
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posits that moral principles and rights
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are inherent in human nature and the
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natural world and are independent of any
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laws imposed by society and or religious
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authorities.
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Let's see. That's not the question
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though. Oh, here it is. What is your
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knowledge and opinion of natural law?
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Okay. So, I mean, I really hadn't
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studied much natural law. I mean, I have
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had some indirect contacts with the with
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the idea. Plus, I did look it up. And
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according to the source that I inquired
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into with regard to natural law, it
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says, "Natural law is a moral philosophy
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asserting that humans possess an innate
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objective moral order discoverable
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through reasoned
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in human nature and the structure of
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reality itself."
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And it turns out that the the most
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famous, you know, early promoter of this
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was Aristotle.
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So my knowledge and opinion of natural
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law.
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Let's delve into this shall we?
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Um first of all he says Romeo says
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natural law posits that moral principles
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and rights are inherent in human nature
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and the natural world. Um I mean would
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they have been inherent in the natural
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world before humans evolved? I mean, was
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there still moral principles and rights
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that existed say in the age of
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dinosaurs?
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I don't know. I mean, the rights itself,
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I remember there was a guy who joined
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our Discord server, the Discord server
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loosely associated with with all this.
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And he was insisting that there are
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genuine rights that are not just a a
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cultural construct. and people pretty
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much dogpiled him. I kind of
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participated in this because I just do
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not see how a right is just innate in
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the fabric of empirical reality. Like
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just set aside morals like a moral law,
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set aside, you know, ideas of right and
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wrong and so forth, but just rights.
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I mean, that seems like a political
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construct to me, a right, you know, does
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does an animal in a jungle have rights?
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Well, I mean, where do you draw the I
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mean, is it is there just like this
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miraculous line that is drawn between
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humans and non-human animals so that you
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know humans just innately have these
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rights, but say
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a stegosaurus
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tens of millions of years ago, I mean,
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did it have rights
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just built right into the system?
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I don't think so. So rights I am
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skeptical of. If someone can present a
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good case that everyone has a certain
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right
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that is just built into the fabric of of
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empirical reality then you know I'm
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quite willing to hear the case. You
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know, I'm I'm open-minded on the
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subject, but I am skeptical in that I
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really see rights, you know, like the
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right to bear arms or the right to
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health care or, you know, the right to
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just equality even that
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it seems like it's artificially just
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kind of imposed by society or government
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or whatever. and that if society or
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government just takes away that support,
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the right just kind of evaporates.
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So, let's just set rights aside and just
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deal with morals because this seems to
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be mainly what Romeo is curious about is
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are morals
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just natural or artificial?
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And I would say um at the human level,
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you know, the level of a normie for
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example, it's it's a combination of
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both. You know, some some morals are
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like arbitrary and artificial. A big
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one, a huge one lately is with regard to
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pedophilia. Maybe I shouldn't even be
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saying it. I shouldn't be mentioning
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it's so taboo now. But for most of the
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human race, when a person goes through
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puberty, they are biologically an adult.
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And so for like an older man and a
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postpubescent
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nubile female to have relations,
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especially after marriage, I mean, it
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was just the way it was. It's like Edgar
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Allan Poe married his 13-year-old cousin
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in America in the like the early to mid
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1800s and it was just allowable. I mean
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probably some people were grumbling
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about it but still I mean it was just it
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was accepted. It's like in India
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traditionally they have this idea that
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once a girl reaches puberty and starts
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menstruating every menstruation is
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practically the same as murdering a
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baby. It's just a wasted menstruation.
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So some some morals are kind of
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arbitrary especially like in the
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Buddhist monastic code like Vignia a lot
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of the the the morals or just the the
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precepts that a monk undertakes when he
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is ordained you know he's following
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vineia he's a conscientious monk
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following vineia a lot of that is just
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etiquette you know not talking with your
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mouth full of food you know it's against
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the rules or or not growing your hair a
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certain length I mean Your hair is not
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allowed to get more than two finger
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widths or two months, whichever comes
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first. You've got to cut it before then.
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I mean, that's not moral. It's not
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immoral to eat in the afternoon, for
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example. And that kind of gets into like
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regular secular morals, too. Jewish
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morals, for example, like keeping the
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Sabbath, not even flipping a light
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switch on the Sabbath day, for example,
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or not eating levenin, not eating yeast
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during Passover week. I mean, that would
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be seen as moral from a Jewish point of
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view. You know, was laid down by God who
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is the ultimate judge with regard to
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morals presumably.
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But still, I mean, from a natural point
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of view, there's nothing inherently
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immoral
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with eating yeast during a certain time
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period where it's okay the rest of the
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time, but this during this certain time
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period of Passover, eating yeast, you
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are cut off from your people. You you
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are no longer one of God's chosen.
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So I think a lot of what is considered
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to be morality is to some degree
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um artificial and then some some of it
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is just sort of like evolutionarily
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derived you know like real pedophilia
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where a person is sexually attracted to
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prepubescent
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children. I mean, that's there's like a
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taboo against that. And I mean, there's
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a taboo against it because it's
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unnatural, you know? It's like it's it's
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going to cause harm to the child, like
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physical harm. They're not I mean, their
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body isn't adjusted for that sort of
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stuff yet.
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And I mean, it's it can't produce I
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mean, they're not going to get pregnant.
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I mean, there, you know, there's, you
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know, it's not for reproduction. I mean
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ultimately that is the purpose for
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reproduction but there's a lot of
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neuroticism in the human race about it.
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Another one is incest that that is
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considered to be immoral. Why is incest
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immoral? Because
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mainly
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I mean just setting aside just the
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sexuality part itself but incest is it
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results in severe inbreeding you know
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it's just not healthy. And so that even
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animals, you know, chimpanzees
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have like a just an instinctive incest
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taboo. Other animals too, I assume, have
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just an instinctive incest taboo because
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it's just not conducive to the health of
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the species. It's not a good way of
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promoting, you know, promulgating your
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DNA sequences. So there's some of that
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that is getting into natural law. You
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know, it's natural morals in a sense
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because it's just built into us
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instinctive because, you know, it's just
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good for the species, good for our own
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DNA sequences.
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But if you're going to get into
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something deeper than that, like
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arguably Buddhist ethics does,
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then
00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.710
yeah, I mean, there is a natural law
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with regard to that. It's it's like
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Buddhist ethics is based on human
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psychology you know it's based on karma
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which is volition which is a human
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mental state so it's like morals in
00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.269
Buddhism are psychological
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more than imposed by some deity you know
00:11:19.839 --> 00:11:22.150
it's like the Abrahamic monotheistic
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religions right and wrong are determined
00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.470
by God decides what's right and wrong in
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.790
the old testament If God says you have
00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:34.710
to you have to massacre an entire town,
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:38.470
then it's immoral not to do it.
00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.389
Otherwise, it would be very immoral to
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do it. You know, thou shalt not kill and
00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.710
all that. But if God orders you to do it
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and you don't do it, that's that's sin.
00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:51.269
But in Buddhism, it doesn't work that
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way. I mean the Buddha I mean he
00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:54.470
wouldn't say this but he could tell you
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to you know go do something wrong and
00:11:57.760 --> 00:12:00.389
just because you do it you you think the
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.710
person is a Buddha let's say and they're
00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:04.790
not. They're just some charismatic cult
00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:07.430
leader and still you've done something
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.910
wrong. And so Buddhist ethics would come
00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:15.750
about as close to natural law as you're
00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:18.550
going to find in world religions as far
00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:20.470
as I can tell. you know, other systems
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.949
would have something similar maybe. You
00:12:22.959 --> 00:12:26.550
know, it's not just the arbitrary decree
00:12:26.560 --> 00:12:31.269
of some king who's called God.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.910
So yeah, it's like if you do something
00:12:35.920 --> 00:12:40.389
and it causes you to be more
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.350
more delusional, have stronger desires
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.310
and attachments and suffering, then that
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is immoral from a Buddhist point of
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view. If you do something and it causes
00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:54.150
you to have less delusion and fewer
00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:55.990
desires and attachments and less
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.470
suffering, then that's moral. I mean,
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.069
we're talking the big picture here, not
00:13:00.079 --> 00:13:03.269
just momentarily. You know, you inject
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.030
heroin, for example, and you just feel
00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:07.190
this rush of euphoria.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.750
Um, you know, that's not moral because
00:13:09.760 --> 00:13:11.990
you're feeling happy, but I mean, you're
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.350
also more delusional and like less
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.350
awake, at least with regard to your
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.069
surroundings, you know, it causes you to
00:13:20.079 --> 00:13:22.389
become more attached, have stronger
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.710
desires for the stuff and future and so
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.190
forth.
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:28.949
So
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yeah, I mean Buddhist
00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:35.269
ethics setting aside just the etiquette
00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:36.949
stuff like in the rules of monastic
00:13:36.959 --> 00:13:38.870
discipline and and some of the stuff
00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:42.389
like the fifth precept against drinking
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.829
alcohol. Well, I mean, let's say you
00:13:45.839 --> 00:13:48.870
take some cough syrup that has a little
00:13:48.880 --> 00:13:50.310
bit of alcohol in it, or you
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.069
accidentally take a sip of some fruit
00:13:52.079 --> 00:13:54.629
juice that started to ferment in the
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:56.870
tropical heat. You know, that happened
00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:59.350
to me as a monk. I mean, that's not
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.030
necessarily immoral, even though you're
00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:03.590
breaking one of the five precepts. And
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.550
then of course there's
00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:11.590
like cases of telling lies that
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.670
are really helpful to people. Like I I
00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:17.350
watched the movie version of Less
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.069
Miserabilis by Victor Hugo. I I don't
00:14:20.079 --> 00:14:21.430
know how to pronounce French names. I'm
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.750
not even going to try to pronounce Less
00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:26.470
Miserabilis correctly.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.389
But I mean it it pretty much starts and
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.030
the novel and the movie pretty much
00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:35.590
start with this hardened criminal Jean
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.230
vjan or Jean Valene since we're not
00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:39.990
pronouncing French words correctly or
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.430
even trying. He's a hardened criminal
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.310
and a a kindlyhearted,
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.670
relatively saintly bishop lets him spend
00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:52.310
the night in his house and the hardened
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.110
criminal steals some silver and takes
00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.430
off with it. So the the hardened
00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.949
criminal gets arrested and taken back to
00:15:00.959 --> 00:15:02.550
the bishop and the bishop says, "Oh no,
00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:04.870
he didn't steal it. I gave it to him."
00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:06.710
Which was a lie because he didn't really
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.670
give it to him. I mean, maybe you could
00:15:09.680 --> 00:15:11.430
sort of say, well, he's kind of
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.110
stretching the truth a little bit. Maybe
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.949
in his heart, he gave it to him after he
00:15:14.959 --> 00:15:17.189
noticed that it was gone, this kind of
00:15:17.199 --> 00:15:19.829
stuff. But really, he didn't really give
00:15:19.839 --> 00:15:23.509
it to him. But, I mean, it changed Jean
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.069
Val Jean's life. You know, it was like
00:15:26.079 --> 00:15:27.910
the first time anyone had ever really
00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:30.550
been kind to a man and forgave him. you
00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:34.069
know, it was like a Christlike act that
00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:37.590
was, you know, conveyed upon him, so to
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.990
speak, and it changed his life. It was
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.870
like that moment caused him to really
00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:44.790
try to become a good person, and he
00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:46.870
succeeded,
00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:49.509
relatively speaking, just because this
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:52.389
bishop told a lie. And I can give other
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.710
examples. I mean, if you're going to,
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.629
you know, like the story the third wise
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.189
man where this or the fourth wise man,
00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.269
the other wise man, it's a famous story
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.590
about one of the wise men who's trying
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.350
to keep up with the other three that
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:07.030
were going to, you know, the magi that
00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:09.749
were going to offer gifts to the to the
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:13.030
baby Jesus.
00:16:13.040 --> 00:16:14.710
And there's the scene where King Herod
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.110
has ordered all the baby boys to be
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:21.030
massacred. And this fourth wise man,
00:16:21.040 --> 00:16:23.430
this magi is spending the night in this
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.030
house where there's a woman who has a
00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:26.949
baby boy. And she's scared because the
00:16:26.959 --> 00:16:29.749
the soldiers are pounding on doors in
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.310
order to kill the baby boys. And this
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:36.069
this magi, this wise man, he takes some
00:16:36.079 --> 00:16:37.590
of the treasure he was going to offer to
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.870
the baby Jesus. And when the soldier
00:16:40.880 --> 00:16:42.949
pounds on the door, he just gives him
00:16:42.959 --> 00:16:44.949
this huge pearl or some such and says,
00:16:44.959 --> 00:16:47.829
"There's no baby boys here." And then of
00:16:47.839 --> 00:16:50.310
course the soldier takes the bribe says
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.310
there's no baby boys in this house and
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.030
they just continue on their way and you
00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:58.230
know the the mother is weeping tears of
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:00.629
joy and gratitude on the floor because
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.910
this man just saved her baby. But he
00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:08.230
told a lie.
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.230
So I mean it's still from a Buddhist
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:11.990
point of view it would be definitely the
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.309
lesser of two evils in that case. You
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.150
know, still telling a lie is immoral
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.189
because, you know, it kind of disrupts
00:17:19.199 --> 00:17:24.789
the equilibrium of karmic stability,
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.189
so to speak.
00:17:27.199 --> 00:17:30.070
But in a case like that,
00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:32.150
um, you know, arguably you could
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.750
justify,
00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:37.830
you know, doing something wrong that is
00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:43.270
less wrong than not doing it.
00:17:43.280 --> 00:17:45.190
But I'm wandering away from this
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.870
question of natural law. So we've
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.390
already kind of established that a lot
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.110
of morals are just purely artificial.
00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:55.350
Some of them are kind of getting in
00:17:55.360 --> 00:18:00.310
towards at least like animal instinct,
00:18:00.320 --> 00:18:04.549
you know, like taboos against sex with
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.350
children, taboos against incest, that
00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:11.750
kind of thing. even even like um
00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.990
adultery, you know, there there's like
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.350
some genetic instinctive components to
00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:19.110
that, you know, of of that being
00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:22.310
considered wrong. So that would be kind
00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:23.990
of natural law, but I don't think it
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.230
would be what like Aristotle had in
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.630
mind. So you have to get into the deeper
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.390
level of like anything that gets you
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.070
closer to enlightenment is good.
00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:37.909
Anything that takes you farther away
00:18:37.919 --> 00:18:40.789
from enlightenment is bad. And that
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.110
would be a kind of natural law,
00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:44.470
especially if you don't think that
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.830
getting closer or farther away from
00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:48.310
enlightenment is just another artificial
00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:50.390
cultural construct, which in Buddhism it
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.070
is not. I mean, it's it's pretty
00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:53.590
empirical,
00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:55.430
you know, whether or not someone is
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.630
happy or unhappy, whether they're
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.350
delusional. That's,
00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:02.950
you know, that's there's going to be all
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.470
this cultural conditioning that gets in
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.190
the way of them just making a purely
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.150
objective statement or as objective of a
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.830
statement it is possible for a human
00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:17.669
being to make.
00:19:17.679 --> 00:19:21.590
I remember I went to see Jordan Peterson
00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:23.669
give a talk in San Jose, California
00:19:23.679 --> 00:19:25.510
once. This was back when he was still
00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:28.310
pretty based you know back before he was
00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:31.350
I mean he was still like a
00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:33.270
he he was still like a university
00:19:33.280 --> 00:19:36.549
professor in Toronto or some such place
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.230
you know he hadn't gotten really famous
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:39.909
yet
00:19:39.919 --> 00:19:41.750
and he gave this talk where he is trying
00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:45.029
to come up with some kind of natural law
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.510
you know he's trying to come up with a
00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:51.909
like morals that don't rely on some
00:19:51.919 --> 00:19:55.430
decree of a capital G God in a scripture
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.510
somewhere. And he was struggling. I
00:19:57.520 --> 00:19:59.909
mean, he was coming up with like
00:19:59.919 --> 00:20:02.710
experiments on white rats. How white
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.669
rats, laboratory rats, nevertheless
00:20:05.679 --> 00:20:08.789
naturally have this concept of fair
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.190
play. You know, you've got a big rat and
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.510
a little rat that that like to play and
00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:16.070
wrestle. The the big rat will let the
00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:19.909
little rat win sometimes just just
00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:21.430
because he wants to keep playing with
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.110
the little rat. And if he wins every
00:20:23.120 --> 00:20:24.549
time, the little rat's not going to want
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.870
to play. So he's trying to work out some
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:28.950
kind of natural law through this kind of
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.190
thing, which I mean, you can say there
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.110
is like a genetic component, like an
00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:35.669
instinctual component where certain
00:20:35.679 --> 00:20:41.110
immoral acts so-called, are harmful to
00:20:41.120 --> 00:20:44.230
the species, harmful to your own chances
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.630
of successfully reproducing your DNA
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.630
sequences. So that would be sort of like
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.230
a
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.430
scientific level natural law. But then
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.549
you get into Buddhist ethics where it's
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.510
just the the act itself, the physical
00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:02.710
act itself is ethically neutral. It's
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.870
just your mental states whether they
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.870
become more like awake and and serene or
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.190
whether they become more asleep and
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.190
agitated
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.390
just based on how human psychology
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.990
works.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.110
You know, it's there's a lot of
00:21:19.120 --> 00:21:20.630
empiricism
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.230
with like very wise people who are like
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.630
meditation masters who can see just the
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:29.029
subtlest little differences in their
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.350
mental states. You know they can see
00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:33.350
whether this is leading to more clarity
00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:36.149
or less clarity. They can see in others
00:21:36.159 --> 00:21:38.230
whether their their actions are
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.630
resulting in more or less clarity. And
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.909
then they can sort of work out a moral
00:21:43.919 --> 00:21:46.950
system largely based on that. And I
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.950
would call that about as close to
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:54.310
natural law as you're going to get.
00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:55.909
But I don't know if it's really a moral
00:21:55.919 --> 00:21:57.350
principle. It's certainly not moral
00:21:57.360 --> 00:21:59.990
rights even principles. I mean a
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.909
principle is kind of like a truth
00:22:01.919 --> 00:22:04.390
whereas it would just have to exist as
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.029
an abstraction
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.230
and abstractions
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.149
um I mean they they have like a
00:22:12.159 --> 00:22:13.830
conventional truth but not an ultimate
00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:15.990
truth.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.870
So I would say that there's like at
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.190
least two different kinds of natural law
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.830
with regard to moral principles. You
00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:27.669
know, one is sort of like the animal
00:22:27.679 --> 00:22:31.510
level, you know, like instinctual taboos
00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:33.909
against murder, for example. And it's
00:22:33.919 --> 00:22:36.950
like when animals fight, not not just
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.669
humans, but any animals when they fight,
00:22:39.679 --> 00:22:42.310
usually it's not to the death. It's
00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:45.350
until one of them admits defeat and then
00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.070
lets out a yelp or something, which kind
00:22:48.080 --> 00:22:49.990
of diffuses the aggression from the
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.870
other. It's like the the other one wins,
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.350
the loser goes away.
00:22:55.360 --> 00:22:57.430
still alive and that's best for the
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.190
species.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.430
So I mean that that kind of natural law
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.789
too like murder and you know like sexual
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.190
stuff that kind of stuff can be like an
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.590
animal level natural law but then you
00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:12.870
get into like depth psychology
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.070
which sometimes is at variance with with
00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:18.470
animal level natural law because at the
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.070
animal level a certain amount of like
00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:21.990
greed and lust and aggression and so
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.430
forth are good for the species whereas
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.750
like from a Buddhist point of view I
00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:29.990
mean you want to get enlightened.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.230
You got to kind of detach yourself from
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.070
the animal stuff, at least as much of
00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:39.190
the animal stuff as you can.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.669
And I'm not sure how well I've addressed
00:23:41.679 --> 00:23:43.669
this question,
00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:47.029
but I think I've been going at it for
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.789
well over 15 minutes. So, I think I
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.029
should probably uh
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.830
move on to Romeo's second question. And
00:23:53.840 --> 00:23:55.510
this one is just a followup to the
00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:56.789
first, and I think I may have already
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:57.990
addressed it. He says where do
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.950
Buddhism's precepts stand in relation to
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:04.390
natural law? And it's like an overlap.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.990
There's a certain amount of ancient
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.710
Indian cultural conditioning.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:11.110
Like for example, if you're taking eight
00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:14.710
precepts and not just and not just uh
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.350
five or taking 10 precepts and not just
00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:18.870
five, you know, one of the eight
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.110
precepts is not sleeping on a high or
00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:24.470
large bed. There's nothing necessarily
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.630
immoral about sleeping on a high
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.789
platform.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.669
So I mean that is
00:24:31.679 --> 00:24:34.070
it's sort maybe indirectly I mean it's
00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:37.110
trying to weaken your attachments to
00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:40.149
luxury mainly
00:24:40.159 --> 00:24:42.149
or not handling money is one of the 10
00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:45.750
precepts or I mean just there there's a
00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:48.870
lot of of the precept stuff or I already
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.470
mentioned like drinking alcohol
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.230
sometimes if you drink it to the point
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.430
of being drunk it can be you know
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.350
arguably leading you away from
00:24:57.360 --> 00:24:59.669
enlightenment. leading you away from
00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:01.190
clarity,
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.950
your ability to see reality.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.909
But I mean, accidentally taking a sip of
00:25:07.919 --> 00:25:10.630
some some fruit juice that went bad or
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.630
taking a spoonful of some medicine that
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.750
turns out having alcohol in it. I mean,
00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:18.149
to say that that's immoral just because
00:25:18.159 --> 00:25:20.149
it falls under the precept would be kind
00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:24.710
of like dogmatic in my opinion.
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.990
just kind of adherence to morality and
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.750
observances
00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:32.549
sila paramasa which is considered to be
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.510
not a good thing in Buddhism.
00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:41.430
So Buddhism's precepts have some
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.070
natural law and also they've got like
00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:46.230
ancient Indian
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.149
aesthetic etiquette at least with regard
00:25:48.159 --> 00:25:50.390
to the rules of monastic discipline and
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.430
just ancient Indian lay etiquette for
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.470
lay people. I mean Jesus of Nazareth
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.549
apparently drank wine.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.269
He was uh what a Nazarene but not a
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.630
Nazerite or is it the other way around?
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:08.230
I mean, it's one of those. I think it's
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.710
the Nazerites like Samson. They're not
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:11.750
supposed to cut their hair. They're not
00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:13.510
allowed to eat meat or drink alcohol.
00:26:13.520 --> 00:26:15.510
That kind of stuff,
00:26:15.520 --> 00:26:17.909
but I don't think Jesus is one of those.
00:26:17.919 --> 00:26:19.909
So, he drank wine. I mean, he he
00:26:19.919 --> 00:26:21.510
miraculously created wine. That's one of
00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:23.430
his first miracles, I think, was making
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:24.950
wine,
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.830
but it's not necessarily immoral.
00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:31.029
I mean, not from a like a natural law
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.029
point of view.
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.149
So Buddhism, Buddhism's precepts stand
00:26:36.159 --> 00:26:38.310
in relation to natural law. It's more
00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:40.390
the whole Buddhist concept of ethics.
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.190
Precepts are just kind of like this
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.710
superficial
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.510
institution that lends stability to the
00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:49.990
system, helps to stabilize society, that
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.590
kind of stuff. And they to have, you
00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:55.590
know, they are conditioned by natural
00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:58.310
law. They're conditioned by the Buddhist
00:26:58.320 --> 00:27:01.190
interpretation of how karma works. you
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.830
know what what brings you closer to
00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:05.190
enlightenment and which takes you
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.390
farther away from it. But Buddhism's
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.549
precepts it is a combination of
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:16.070
you know like conventional morality like
00:27:16.080 --> 00:27:19.350
cultural morality and also the Buddhist
00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:22.630
idea of how morals works, how ethics
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.110
works.
00:27:25.120 --> 00:27:27.590
But the Buddhist idea of ethics, it
00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:30.470
would be much closer to natural law than
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.510
just precepts.
00:27:33.520 --> 00:27:35.029
And there's somebody at the door. And I
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.669
hope my woman hears the doorbell ringing
00:27:37.679 --> 00:27:39.110
cuz I don't want to interrupt this
00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:43.110
video, if you will. But if the doorbell
00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:44.789
rings again, I may have to holler really
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.549
loud to get my woman's attention.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:50.549
So,
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.830
next question is from Siovak and Cipad
00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:56.230
Zidana. And I'm talking a little quieter
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.789
just to see if someone's answering the
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.070
door. Okay, I guess somebody is.
00:28:02.080 --> 00:28:06.310
Siovakad Zidana says, "Are you on the
00:28:06.320 --> 00:28:08.710
side of a future restoration of a
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:12.389
Christian West or restoration of a pagan
00:28:12.399 --> 00:28:16.310
west?" And I really don't think that I
00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.990
think that's kind of a false dichotomy.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.789
I really not wholly behind either one.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.510
I mean, a restoration of a Christian
00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:28.389
West, it might be more realistic than
00:28:28.399 --> 00:28:30.389
trying to bring back classical or
00:28:30.399 --> 00:28:33.669
Germanic paganism in the West.
00:28:33.679 --> 00:28:35.990
Classical and Germanic paganism are
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.950
pretty much dead. that most of the
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.590
people that are trying to restore it or
00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:44.230
revive it are essentially laring.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:45.190
They're I mean they're they're
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.430
essentially following a kind of replica.
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:48.870
You know, it's not this unbroken
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.269
lineage. A lot of it is just conjecture
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.029
as to what it was really like and so
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:57.430
forth. So,
00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:59.830
uh Christianity on the other hand, I
00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:02.310
mean it's it's run its course. you know,
00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:04.389
it's kind of in the same situation that
00:29:04.399 --> 00:29:07.669
classical paganism is was in in the
00:29:07.679 --> 00:29:09.909
Roman Empire when Christianity was taken
00:29:09.919 --> 00:29:13.909
over that to a large degree like secular
00:29:13.919 --> 00:29:16.230
scientism has already replaced
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.950
Christianity even in the hearts of most
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.190
Christians with regard to how to explain
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.789
reality.
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:24.710
So you've got devout Christians who
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.230
nevertheless
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.870
defer to science with regard to
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.269
explaining how the universe works. They
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.029
might say that God created it in the
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.190
beginning, but God created it in
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.750
accordance with these scientific laws
00:29:37.760 --> 00:29:40.230
and so forth.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.909
So,
00:29:41.919 --> 00:29:44.950
um I'm really not on either side. I
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.350
don't have a dog in this fight because
00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:51.110
I'm not a Christian or a pagan really.
00:29:51.120 --> 00:29:54.870
Um, I mean, ideally, I used to I've I've
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.909
often considered that I think it would
00:29:57.919 --> 00:30:01.430
be much nicer from my point of view if
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.230
Julian the Apostate hadn't died in
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:09.990
Persia and that um a kind of revised neo
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.909
neoplatanism
00:30:11.919 --> 00:30:14.149
had become like the official religion of
00:30:14.159 --> 00:30:16.310
the of the Roman Empire and had like
00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:18.549
somehow outco competed Christianity.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.590
Although that's kind of a pipe dream, I
00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:23.430
guess. I mean, obviously it didn't
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.909
happen.
00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:31.510
But I mean, I would rather see the West,
00:30:31.520 --> 00:30:33.990
like America especially,
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.590
go back to being strongly Christian,
00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:40.149
um, than just see it just degenerate,
00:30:40.159 --> 00:30:43.029
just fragment and collapse, maybe being
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.310
taken over by Islam or something. or or
00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:48.789
worse than Islam would just be like
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.269
neomarxism.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.430
So
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:56.950
I think that a restoration of a
00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:58.710
Christian west would be more realistic
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.750
than a restoration of a pagan west. And
00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:03.750
I do think that the restoration of a
00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:07.110
Christian west um you know it might be
00:31:07.120 --> 00:31:08.470
worth it even though I'm not a
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.029
Christian. I might be willing to take
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.230
the hit for the sake of saving western
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.510
civilization from its its imminent
00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:20.070
decline and fall. I mean the decline is
00:31:20.080 --> 00:31:25.350
already in progress. It seems like
00:31:25.360 --> 00:31:27.830
I mean in uh Gibbons's decline and fall
00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:30.230
of the Roman Empire I think he has the
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.789
emperor Kimotus you know the son of
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:34.870
Marcus Aurelius at least the legal son
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.830
of Marcus Aurelius was the person who
00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:40.630
started the decline and I mean the Roman
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:42.149
Empire lasted for hundreds of years
00:31:42.159 --> 00:31:46.789
after that.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.909
Um, but I think possibly preferable to
00:31:49.919 --> 00:31:51.830
either
00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:53.509
the restoration of a Christian west or
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.350
the restoration of a pagan west would be
00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:59.509
something new and better in the future.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.669
So, it wouldn't be a restoration. It
00:32:01.679 --> 00:32:04.549
would just be the new establishment of
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.830
some new spiritual order possibly deeply
00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:11.430
conditioned by Buddhism. Although
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:13.110
just being realistic, going with
00:32:13.120 --> 00:32:15.190
political realities, you couldn't really
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:18.789
have the like the uncompromising
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:23.909
pacifism and nonviolence of Buddhism in
00:32:23.919 --> 00:32:25.830
uh especially in like a world
00:32:25.840 --> 00:32:27.990
superpower.
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:29.909
I guess you just have to renounce the
00:32:29.919 --> 00:32:32.389
the military powers or superpowers or
00:32:32.399 --> 00:32:35.350
anything like that if people became
00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:37.909
Buddhist enough. But even Buddhist
00:32:37.919 --> 00:32:39.509
countries still have armies and so
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:42.230
forth. I mean, Burma's arguably the most
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.269
Buddhist country on the planet, and it's
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.669
been run by a military dictatorship for
00:32:47.679 --> 00:32:50.789
decades.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.789
It's kind of like the mafia is Catholic.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.750
It's kind of that kind of deal.
00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:57.909
So,
00:32:57.919 --> 00:33:00.310
yeah. I mean, like I keep saying, I've
00:33:00.320 --> 00:33:02.149
said this several times on these Q&A
00:33:02.159 --> 00:33:05.590
videos that it's hard to say what the
00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:08.710
next big spiritual system, what the next
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.029
big paradigm shift is going to be based
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.909
on. that I mean even if science finally
00:33:15.919 --> 00:33:18.149
comes to the conclusion that the
00:33:18.159 --> 00:33:20.470
material world is just an outward
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.029
reflection of our own mental states or
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.269
that energy and consciousness are
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:28.470
ultimately the same then I mean that in
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.950
itself could just be a huge capernican
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.950
revolution uh which would result in uh a
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:37.830
large shift in the way people look at
00:33:37.840 --> 00:33:39.590
reality
00:33:39.600 --> 00:33:41.029
and then you might even have sort of
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.990
like a a kind of dowoist physics or
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.870
something becomes like the oracle or
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:50.389
like I was saying not too long ago just
00:33:50.399 --> 00:33:54.149
virtually omnisient computers like AI
00:33:54.159 --> 00:33:56.070
might become the new religion. You know,
00:33:56.080 --> 00:33:57.990
like Brian Aldis in some of his science
00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.750
fiction novels or his science fiction
00:33:59.760 --> 00:34:01.990
short stories especially, he had this
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.389
idea that computers will become
00:34:04.399 --> 00:34:06.630
functionally omnisient, at least
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.669
omnisient enough to satisfy humans and
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.349
that people will just start going to AI
00:34:13.359 --> 00:34:15.589
as a kind of oracle
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.190
and that could start a whole new
00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:20.550
religious system without even the need
00:34:20.560 --> 00:34:22.950
of some charismatic
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.109
sage or
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.750
spiritual spiritual leader
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:34.790
or charismatic warlord.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:36.629
So yeah, that was kind of a trick
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.310
question because I really am not on
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.230
neither side and I think I should just
00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:42.310
move on to see action cadet's next
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.950
question
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.750
which is as follows.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.430
Sio action sepat zera says in Majimanica
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.629
13 the Buddha claims that all warfare
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:57.109
and conflict between individuals has
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.310
sensuality as their true motivation. Do
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.790
you agree with this? I didn't believe it
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:04.870
at first but thinking about it makes
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.150
sense since we are often not even aware
00:35:08.160 --> 00:35:10.470
why we do certain things and our own
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.349
hidden inner motivation. So the question
00:35:13.359 --> 00:35:17.349
is, I mean, do I agree with the the 13th
00:35:17.359 --> 00:35:20.950
suta of the Majimminaya that warfare and
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.230
conflict between individuals always has
00:35:24.240 --> 00:35:27.270
sensuality as its true motivation? It
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:28.950
depends on how you look at it, I guess.
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.750
I mean, he was was it Freud that came up
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.349
with the pleasure principle that said
00:35:33.359 --> 00:35:35.750
that all of our motivation, you know,
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.910
everything we do is for the purpose of
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.550
increasing our pleasure or just
00:35:40.560 --> 00:35:42.950
decreasing our displeasure.
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.589
So, if if that's the case, then it would
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:48.950
all boil down to that regardless of what
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.790
you know the more superficial reasons
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.109
are. But if you want to go with you you
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.670
want to set aside the pleasure principle
00:35:55.680 --> 00:35:59.430
and just deal with I mean some some
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:00.950
nations
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.630
you know like the Roman Empire to some
00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:04.230
degree. It was it was like it was just
00:36:04.240 --> 00:36:07.109
kind of built in just expansionism
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:08.950
was just built into the system for a
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:12.069
long time and it was just
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:18.069
what you do or like crusades where it's
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:19.589
um
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:23.190
supposedly a religious war. I mean if it
00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:24.870
there's a religious war and there have
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.030
been genuine religious wars. It's not
00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:30.069
all economics all desire for money and
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.069
territory and all that. I mean that's
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:36.150
usually a major factor but still let's
00:36:36.160 --> 00:36:37.829
for the sake of argument let's say that
00:36:37.839 --> 00:36:39.750
there really have been religious wars
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.150
where people are just fighting because
00:36:42.160 --> 00:36:44.069
our religion is right their religion is
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.829
wrong and they're evil and we need to
00:36:45.839 --> 00:36:50.710
defeat them and I mean that is a major
00:36:50.720 --> 00:36:53.750
like motivation for people fighting in
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.630
religious wars anyway
00:36:56.640 --> 00:37:00.069
then
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.870
how that would fit into the pleasure
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.030
principle sensuality
00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:08.630
as the the suta has it or as Sioak and
00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:13.589
Sipad Zuna's translation has it
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:17.670
then it becomes more subtle it's like
00:37:17.680 --> 00:37:19.430
I mean to where are you going to draw
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.470
the line that you just religious
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:23.990
fanaticism
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.790
and intolerance of other people's
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:29.829
beliefs I mean to what degree does that
00:37:29.839 --> 00:37:32.630
have roots and sensuality. I mean, deep
00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:34.069
down, you could say it's kind of like
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.790
their own deep down insecurity about
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:38.550
whether their religion is really true.
00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:41.349
And so, they want to just abolish anyone
00:37:41.359 --> 00:37:43.510
who disagrees with them. Just kind of
00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:45.349
abolish anyone questioning their point
00:37:45.359 --> 00:37:47.670
of view. So, it makes them feel more
00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:50.470
like secure emotionally, this kind of
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.710
stuff. You can take it down to that
00:37:52.720 --> 00:37:55.109
level. You can take anything down to
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:57.349
that level where it's, you know, they're
00:37:57.359 --> 00:37:58.630
just doing it for their own
00:37:58.640 --> 00:38:00.150
satisfaction. And whether you want to
00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:02.870
call that sensuality or not, I don't
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.030
know. But just if you just go with
00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:08.950
sensuality like just an overt desire for
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:12.470
pleasure, you know, women, more money
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:14.310
than the stuff that money can buy, which
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.430
includes women, then not all warfare and
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:21.589
conflict between individuals has that as
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:23.990
its true motivation. I mean, some of
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.870
it's just hate. But then it's like the
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.790
hate, you can you could take that down a
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.630
notch and it's they want the
00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:32.390
satisfaction of seeing their enemies
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:33.990
destroyed, which you could say is a kind
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.550
of sensuality.
00:38:36.560 --> 00:38:39.190
So if you're going to deal if you're
00:38:39.200 --> 00:38:41.109
going to interpret sensuality as any
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.310
kind of like emotional satisfaction,
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:46.069
then yeah, you could just that could be
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:47.990
the lowest common denominator. You could
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.390
just boil it all down to that. But if
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.630
you're talking about
00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:55.349
like
00:38:55.359 --> 00:38:56.870
I mean you could you could let's say
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.150
economic interests could be put under
00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:05.109
the the category of sensuality but still
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.390
some conflict is not necessarily
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:12.310
motivated by a desire for pleasure
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:14.870
unless it's just like the em emotional
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:19.990
satisfaction of getting what you want.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.910
So, I don't fully agree with it unless
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.150
you want to just boil it down to like
00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:25.990
Freud's pleasure principle or whoever
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.670
came up with it. Whoever came up with
00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:29.910
the pleasure principle,
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.470
then technically it'd be true, I guess.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:33.990
Then everything we do, not just
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.870
conflict, but everything else would have
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.230
sensuality as its true motivation.
00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:42.550
So why even just specify warfare and
00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:45.990
conflict? Just say everything.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.470
But if everything isn't motivated by
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:50.950
sensuality, then warfare and conflict in
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:54.069
my opinion are not exclusively motivated
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.470
by sensuality.
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.069
And I'm just going to move on to Seova
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.870
Cipat Zidan's next question, which is
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:02.710
this is an easy one. I'm not sure why he
00:40:02.720 --> 00:40:06.790
asked this question. He said,
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.990
well, first of all, he he has this uh
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.550
like a screenshot of some post on social
00:40:14.560 --> 00:40:17.349
media, and it's the post says, "They
00:40:17.359 --> 00:40:20.310
offered you $80 an hour to clean the
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.910
cemetery alone 1000 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:26.790
y'all taking the job?" question mark.
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:29.270
And then se of action cadina says, would
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:32.870
you take the job and would be the least
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.950
amount it would take to convince you?
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.470
What would be the least amount it would
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.710
take to convince you? Theoretically, it
00:40:38.720 --> 00:40:40.630
is 30 minutes away from the nearest
00:40:40.640 --> 00:40:42.710
building with people living there and
00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:45.829
you can't take weapons.
00:40:45.839 --> 00:40:48.470
Well, first of all, I mean,
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:50.069
it would depend on the cemetery, I
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:51.829
guess. I mean, if there's like, you
00:40:51.839 --> 00:40:53.990
know, junkies and gang members hanging
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.589
out there, then I mean, I wouldn't
00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.190
wouldn't take the job regardless of what
00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:00.630
they're offering. I mean, if if it was
00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:03.990
like obviously physically dangerous to
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.470
work there just because of, you know,
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.589
criminals hanging out there,
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:12.309
it would just pretty obviously, you
00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:15.990
know, harass me at at least then, yeah,
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.470
I mean, it it' just be a non-starter.
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.309
But if it's just a cemetery,
00:41:22.319 --> 00:41:25.430
you know, just a cemetery,
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.390
then yeah, I mean, why not take the job?
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.589
$80 an hour. Let's see if it's $80 an
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.870
hour and 10 to 5 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.990
That's 7 hours. So that's $80 per hour
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.990
at 7 hours per night. And let's say it's
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.309
a five day week. Then that's that adds
00:41:42.319 --> 00:41:44.870
up to $145,600
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.589
a year. That's a six-figure income for
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:50.470
cleaning a cemetery. And cemeteries in
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:52.630
the West, like in America, they're like
00:41:52.640 --> 00:41:56.309
parks, you know? They're pretty. There's
00:41:56.319 --> 00:41:58.230
flowers and stuff. It's it's it's not
00:41:58.240 --> 00:42:01.349
bad. But as a monk, I used to live in
00:42:01.359 --> 00:42:03.109
cemeteries. I would spend the night in
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:04.950
cemeteries.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.589
This I mean, as a Buddhist practice, and
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:09.750
the cemeteries in Burma, you there's
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.630
like human bones lying around, you know?
00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:15.430
It's it's like jungly,
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.270
you know, there's like not just human
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.910
bones, but there's like centipedes and
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.990
scorpions and snakes and that kind of
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.190
stuff. But I mean, as a monk, I sp I
00:42:25.200 --> 00:42:27.750
stayed there for free. I chose I just
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.950
preferred sometimes to stay in a
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.510
cemetery like like whenever I went uh in
00:42:33.520 --> 00:42:36.150
the the vicinity of the town of Keni in
00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:37.910
northwestern Burma, there was this
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.349
cemetery there. It was a really good
00:42:39.359 --> 00:42:41.349
cemetery. It had like this big pavilion
00:42:41.359 --> 00:42:44.550
there where you could stay and and um
00:42:44.560 --> 00:42:46.150
you know there was like human bones
00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:48.150
lying around.
00:42:48.160 --> 00:42:51.109
One time there was like the the the face
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.589
part of a skull just like the front part
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.069
of a a skull just lying face up on the
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:58.309
ground at this place. I think it was
00:42:58.319 --> 00:42:59.750
outside the cemetery actually. It was
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:03.910
like on the road maybe 100 yards away.
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.710
And I'm like that doesn't bother me. I'm
00:43:06.720 --> 00:43:10.630
not particularly afraid of ghosts.
00:43:10.640 --> 00:43:13.910
So yeah, I take the job easily. I mean,
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.470
I don't like working nights.
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.430
You know, it's like what is it? Working
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.670
until 5 in the morning. I mean, that
00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:23.109
would kind of suck. I mean, it's kind of
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:27.190
late. Second shift I prefer, but I mean
00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:28.950
going to work at 10 p.m. is kind of
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.750
pushing it, but for 145,000 bucks a
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:34.230
year, obviously
00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:35.829
I mean it would be a heck of a lot more
00:43:35.839 --> 00:43:39.510
than I'm making now.
00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:42.390
So I'm not sure why Seal of Action Cad
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:43.750
asked me this question. I mean
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:45.589
personally I'd take the job for half as
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.510
much. Half that pay would still be
00:43:49.520 --> 00:43:51.190
I mean you're just cleaning a cemetery.
00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:53.190
I mean, cemeteries don't tend to be all
00:43:53.200 --> 00:43:54.710
that dirty, especially in the West that
00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:57.510
look like golf courses or parks. What
00:43:57.520 --> 00:43:59.430
are you going to do? Just picking up
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:02.950
wilted flowers, picking up hankies that
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.230
people have thrown to the ground.
00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:07.829
But again, I mean, if you've got like
00:44:07.839 --> 00:44:10.230
gang members and and just like homeless
00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:13.270
crazy drug addicts and so forth just
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.349
like haunting the place, that would be
00:44:15.359 --> 00:44:20.390
worse than ghosts.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.550
Ah, but if it's 30 minutes away from the
00:44:22.560 --> 00:44:24.309
nearest building, then it'd be like a 30
00:44:24.319 --> 00:44:27.430
minute drive to work.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.309
So, there's that, too. But still, for 80
00:44:30.319 --> 00:44:32.150
bucks an hour, yeah, that would be a
00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:35.990
bargain. I'd go for it easily.
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.270
And I'm just going to move on. Next
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.630
question. This is from PSA.
00:44:40.640 --> 00:44:42.630
And PSA says, "When you were a monk,
00:44:42.640 --> 00:44:45.270
which of the 227 precepts did you find
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.430
most difficult to observe and why?" So
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:50.630
by by specifying 227 precepts, he's
00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:52.870
referring to the potty mocha rules. I
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:54.790
mean there's most of the rules of
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.150
monastic discipline are not in the 227
00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:00.550
rules of the pty mocha. Most people
00:45:00.560 --> 00:45:02.390
don't know this. Even some teachers of
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.390
Buddhism don't know this that I've
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:06.630
calculated probably there between like
00:45:06.640 --> 00:45:08.790
two and 3,000 rules of monastic
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:11.270
discipline altogether. Most of which lie
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:16.150
beyond the the limits of the py mocha.
00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:17.910
But let's just keep it down to the potty
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:20.630
mocha the 227 rules. The most difficult
00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:23.910
to observe of those rules. When I was
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:25.910
when I was a young monk, young, dumb,
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.750
and full of precious bodily fluids, then
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.670
it would be like songa number one was
00:45:33.680 --> 00:45:37.430
difficult, which is not having orgasms
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:41.829
on purpose because when you're young and
00:45:41.839 --> 00:45:44.150
just come from like an oversexed family
00:45:44.160 --> 00:45:47.190
anyway, it's it's like the hormones
00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:49.589
reach this like a breaking point where
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:51.990
you're just I mean, you can just be like
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.870
wanting to just cry and howl like a dog.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:57.430
Beat your head against the wall.
00:45:57.440 --> 00:45:59.190
Fortunately for me, about every two
00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:01.910
weeks, I just automatically have like a
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.630
a pornographic dream. And when I was in
00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:06.870
my early 40s and stopped having those, I
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:11.990
I sincerely miss them.
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.150
But yeah, that was that was like the
00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:17.750
biggest challenge. The the the sorest
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.030
trial and ordeal for me was just being
00:46:21.040 --> 00:46:22.550
celibate even to the point of not
00:46:22.560 --> 00:46:25.270
spanking the puppy. That was very
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:27.589
difficult.
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.069
There are other rules like minor rules
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.790
that aren't in this potty mocha that I
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.670
mean it's just easy to break them. but
00:46:35.680 --> 00:46:37.430
of the podimoka rules. I mean, that was
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.349
like the sorest trial. And if you break
00:46:39.359 --> 00:46:41.030
that rule, you've got to do penance for
00:46:41.040 --> 00:46:43.430
6 days and six nights, go through this
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.470
very inconvenient reinstatement ceremony
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.190
with at least 20 monks present, and it's
00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:51.990
just a pain in the neck. So, yeah, that
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:55.109
was the most difficult for me.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:58.150
So, let's just move on to PSA's next
00:46:58.160 --> 00:47:01.910
question.
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:03.829
Uh he says, "You've mentioned briefly
00:47:03.839 --> 00:47:06.870
here and there that you have experience
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.829
at Zen monasteries, but I wonder if you
00:47:09.839 --> 00:47:12.390
could elaborate in more detail how the
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.349
whole thing was and was it Japanese,
00:47:15.359 --> 00:47:19.510
Korean, Vietnamese, or Chinese Zen?"
00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:21.190
Well, when I was looking for a monastery
00:47:21.200 --> 00:47:23.589
at which to be ordained, at first I was
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:25.910
leaning towards Zen. You know, I just
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:29.030
had more exposure to Zen Buddhism. I
00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:32.390
like the idea of, you know, the the
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.829
mysterious men dressed in black talking
00:47:35.839 --> 00:47:37.670
in riddles and hitting each other with
00:47:37.680 --> 00:47:41.190
sticks, you know, it just it appealed to
00:47:41.200 --> 00:47:42.870
me.
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.990
Then I tried two monasteries. It's like
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:48.870
I mean in the place where I was living
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:51.430
at the time, Aberdeene, Washington or at
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:54.390
least Pacific Northwest,
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:56.790
I I grew up in Aberdine, Washington,
00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.630
home of Nirvana, Kurt Coobe, and all
00:47:58.640 --> 00:48:00.390
that.
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:01.750
And I mean, there's no Buddhist
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:03.750
monasteries around there. There was some
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.630
rumor of a Buddhist monastery in the San
00:48:06.640 --> 00:48:10.630
Juan Islands, but I think it was like it
00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:12.710
wasn't Terravada. I don't think it was
00:48:12.720 --> 00:48:16.150
Zen. was like, you know, Nichi Ren or
00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:18.309
something.
00:48:18.319 --> 00:48:19.829
So,
00:48:19.839 --> 00:48:25.030
um, I went to a Zen priaryy
00:48:25.040 --> 00:48:28.230
in Portland, Oregon,
00:48:28.240 --> 00:48:30.309
and told him I wanted to be ordained as
00:48:30.319 --> 00:48:34.390
a monk. And he presented me with this,
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:37.109
it was like a directory of Buddhist
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.510
organizations in America. And I just
00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:41.190
wrote down the name and address of any
00:48:41.200 --> 00:48:44.790
place that wasn't obviously
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.510
not a monastery. You know, it some of it
00:48:47.520 --> 00:48:49.510
I didn't know what it was, but it might
00:48:49.520 --> 00:48:51.510
be a monastery. So, I wrote down like 20
00:48:51.520 --> 00:48:53.349
names and addresses and just sent out
00:48:53.359 --> 00:48:55.750
this letter, you know, and stating my
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.150
intention of becoming a monk. And it
00:48:58.160 --> 00:48:59.430
turns out most of the places weren't
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.030
even monasteries. Um, I got two letters
00:49:03.040 --> 00:49:05.910
back from actual monasteries. One was
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:07.750
the the name in the directory was
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.390
Tonpulu Seyapda. Even the word seiata
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:12.069
was spelled wrong. I had no idea what a
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:16.069
Tonulu Seat Dao was, but it might have
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.309
been a a monastery. So I sent a letter.
00:49:18.319 --> 00:49:21.030
And then I also got a letter from Shasta
00:49:21.040 --> 00:49:23.109
Abby in Northern California, which is a
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:26.630
Zen place. So I checked out both places.
00:49:26.640 --> 00:49:29.750
and Shasta Abbey. I think it started off
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.150
in a more Japanese tradition, but then
00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:36.069
it was becoming kind of more
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:39.510
more Chinese in its orientation. The the
00:49:39.520 --> 00:49:43.030
Abbott or Abbis was this large English
00:49:43.040 --> 00:49:45.349
woman. I don't I don't remember her
00:49:45.359 --> 00:49:49.910
name. I met her once. Um and they were
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.790
sort of reforming a little bit. It was
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:54.870
at first it was allowable for like the
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:57.829
ordained priests and nuns to get married
00:49:57.839 --> 00:50:00.549
and then they they kind of stopped that
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:04.230
so that the the Roshi at the the the
00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:06.390
priaryy in Portland had kind of
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:08.230
distanced himself from Shast Abby. He
00:50:08.240 --> 00:50:10.230
was ordained there. He and his wife were
00:50:10.240 --> 00:50:12.069
ordained there but then when they were
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:14.470
forbidding marriage he said well we were
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.069
already committed to each other so they
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.109
just kind of went their own way. But I I
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:21.030
went to Shasta Abbey for like an
00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:23.510
introductory retreat, just kind of test
00:50:23.520 --> 00:50:27.910
the waters. And I mean, it was it was
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.069
nothing like
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:31.990
men dressed in black standing around
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.349
talking in riddles and hitting each
00:50:33.359 --> 00:50:34.710
other with sticks. Nobody hit anybody
00:50:34.720 --> 00:50:37.030
with sticks, you know? That's it was
00:50:37.040 --> 00:50:38.950
kind of feminizing. You had a female
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:42.069
abbot, an abbus running the place, a nun
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:45.030
running the place, and lots of bowing
00:50:45.040 --> 00:50:47.750
and chanting, lots of ceremonies. I
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:49.589
mean, you'd bow to a door before going
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:51.670
through the doorway. You know, you'd bow
00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:53.750
to the room upon entering the door,
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.230
entering the room. Lots and lots of
00:50:56.240 --> 00:51:00.470
chanting. And I just was not
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.549
really I did not really wasn't attracted
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:04.710
to that. Also, there was a lot of pure
00:51:04.720 --> 00:51:07.829
land stuff that was kind of conflated
00:51:07.839 --> 00:51:10.390
with Zen there. And I've never had any
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:13.910
use for pure land Buddhism.
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.910
So, and and then also they ran a store,
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:19.349
you know, they're selling like candles
00:51:19.359 --> 00:51:21.510
and Buddhist Buddha statues and little
00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:23.510
gongs and incense and that kind of
00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:26.150
stuff. And you'd have monks and nuns
00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:28.630
like getting out of their gray zen
00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:31.670
pajamas and putting on regular layman's
00:51:31.680 --> 00:51:35.349
clothing and driving to town in a car,
00:51:35.359 --> 00:51:37.270
you know, to buy groceries for the
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:40.390
monastery, this kind of stuff. So I I
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.870
mean that really was a far cry from what
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.069
you read about Zen monasteries in books.
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:49.430
You know the men dressed in black
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.630
talking in riddles hitting each other
00:51:50.640 --> 00:51:54.069
with sticks. So then I went to Tomulu
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.790
Seepda or Tomulu Kaba a monastery in
00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:58.710
Boulder Creek, California. And it was
00:51:58.720 --> 00:52:02.309
like four Burmese monks
00:52:02.319 --> 00:52:04.549
only, let's see, two of whom spoke
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.510
fluent English. The abbott spoke almost
00:52:07.520 --> 00:52:09.910
no English at all. And they're just
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:13.270
living a quiet life, you know, just not
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:14.790
hand. Well, I mean, they handled money,
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.030
but not ostentatiously. You know, I
00:52:17.040 --> 00:52:18.549
didn't see them handling money at the
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.470
time. You know, they didn't drive cars,
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:21.829
you know, they didn't put on layman's
00:52:21.839 --> 00:52:23.829
clothing. They weren't running a store.
00:52:23.839 --> 00:52:26.790
You know, they were just being monks.
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:29.430
And so comparing the terravada, the
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:32.150
Burmese terraata place with this kind of
00:52:32.160 --> 00:52:34.870
westernized Japanese maybe slightly
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.910
Chinese zen place, I mean it was just
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:42.309
the difference was very stark and it was
00:52:42.319 --> 00:52:44.230
fairly clear to me that the terravada
00:52:44.240 --> 00:52:45.750
place was coming closer to what the
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:49.829
Buddha actually taught.
00:52:49.839 --> 00:52:51.589
So,
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.630
I guess that's fairly elaborate with
00:52:54.640 --> 00:52:57.910
regard to uh my details, how the whole
00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.589
thing was.
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.190
Um,
00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:02.790
so I think I'm just going to move on to
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.510
PSA's third question.
00:53:05.520 --> 00:53:08.790
He says, "You're approaching 200 Q&As's.
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:11.430
That's amazing. Are you planning a big
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:13.829
party or special event for that episode?
00:53:13.839 --> 00:53:16.630
People have been kind of pestering me a
00:53:16.640 --> 00:53:18.950
little bit to have another live stream
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.270
for episode 200. I did a live stream for
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:25.030
episode 100. And I'm game, I guess. It's
00:53:25.040 --> 00:53:27.030
just the thing is I'm not very good at
00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:29.349
live streams. Not because I'm not good
00:53:29.359 --> 00:53:31.430
at being spontaneous. I mean, these are
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.309
pre-recorded, but all done in one take.
00:53:34.319 --> 00:53:35.589
You know, there's not a lot of jump
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:37.910
cuts.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.870
So, yeah, I may do a live stream. Um,
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:42.790
but that's about it. The thing is with
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:44.150
the live streams, I just don't have
00:53:44.160 --> 00:53:45.829
enough experience with it because I have
00:53:45.839 --> 00:53:48.309
only done it like two or three times so
00:53:48.319 --> 00:53:50.470
that it's hard to tell if if I'm even
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:53.109
live. Like I mentioned, the very first
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:56.390
time I did a a live stream Q&A, I think
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.790
it was a Q&A. I mean, it looked like I
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.910
wasn't even wasn't even online. And I
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.430
just walked out of the room to try and
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.589
get my woman to help me figure out what
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:06.950
was going on. She said, "You're you're
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.750
on. You just left the room." So, I came
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:12.870
back and continued the Q&A.
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:14.950
So, or whatever it was, continued the
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.750
video. But yeah, it's like probably a
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:19.430
live stream would be about the most you
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.430
can hope for in that regard. And I'm
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.829
moving on to the next question. This is
00:54:23.839 --> 00:54:25.990
from Cyrus Frame, one of the few people
00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.109
that asks questions on Rumble.
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:32.470
And Cyrus Frame says, "Could it be said
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:35.190
that volition is the will to carve the
00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:37.829
uncarved block?"
00:54:37.839 --> 00:54:40.710
Well,
00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:42.710
golly.
00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:46.950
I mean, it could be said, I guess,
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:48.790
but I mean, I really don't see it that
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:50.470
way so much. I mean, in a way, you could
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:52.309
say that volition is the will to carve
00:54:52.319 --> 00:54:55.270
the uncarved block, but let's say
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:57.430
that you've got the uncarved block of
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.870
stone, which, as I keep saying, contains
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:04.230
within it in potential virtual form
00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:08.630
every possible statue. So the forms,
00:55:08.640 --> 00:55:11.750
those virtual forms would be perceptions
00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:14.710
and the movement of those forms, not
00:55:14.720 --> 00:55:17.030
just the movement, but whatever kind of
00:55:17.040 --> 00:55:19.829
continued pattern is keeping that
00:55:19.839 --> 00:55:21.829
statue, you know, in a state of
00:55:21.839 --> 00:55:25.270
coherence as it moves, you know, it goes
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:27.030
through its actions of brushing its
00:55:27.040 --> 00:55:29.510
teeth or whatever,
00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:32.230
then that would be volition.
00:55:32.240 --> 00:55:33.829
So
00:55:33.839 --> 00:55:38.309
um I mean volition is karma and it's
00:55:38.319 --> 00:55:40.470
interesting there there was a book it's
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:41.990
still out there I'm sure the Buddhist
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.829
Bible which was mainly oriented towards
00:55:45.839 --> 00:55:48.069
Mahayana Buddhism
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.549
but it had some interesting translations
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:55.109
and it translated karma as habit energy
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:56.789
and that's a good translation. I mean
00:55:56.799 --> 00:55:58.549
it's most people don't think of karma as
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.510
habit energy but I mean you think about
00:56:01.520 --> 00:56:03.430
it that is a good translation. It's
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:07.589
habit energy and so the the volition or
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:11.190
the habit energy the karma is what is
00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:14.950
keeping that virtual
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.670
like moving statue that image contained
00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:19.510
within the block of marble. what is
00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:23.190
keeping it coherent as essentially what
00:56:23.200 --> 00:56:26.150
is identified as an individual that
00:56:26.160 --> 00:56:28.150
continues to exist over time. You know,
00:56:28.160 --> 00:56:32.789
it's it's like the habitual pattern that
00:56:32.799 --> 00:56:35.670
that keeps it you know like a
00:56:35.680 --> 00:56:38.630
recognizable pattern for perception to
00:56:38.640 --> 00:56:41.109
perceive and at the same time is you
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.069
know through time. So it's volition is
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:45.829
just like the temporal aspect of
00:56:45.839 --> 00:56:48.470
perception but also there's like the
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:52.150
stability aspect of keeping that
00:56:52.160 --> 00:56:54.710
perception that even though the
00:56:54.720 --> 00:56:57.190
perception is changing keeping it the
00:56:57.200 --> 00:56:59.750
same enough that you keep perceiving it
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:01.510
as the same thing. It's not just
00:57:01.520 --> 00:57:03.430
completely changing from one moment to
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.549
the next into something unrecognizable.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:10.950
So volition or karma habit energy also
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:14.309
has that function of a kind of you know
00:57:14.319 --> 00:57:17.109
it's just momentum it's the momentum of
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.109
your mental states it's the momentum of
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:23.030
your perceptions so to speak
00:57:23.040 --> 00:57:25.430
just as perception is sort of like the
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:29.030
form of your vitions. There's it's like
00:57:29.040 --> 00:57:30.870
two aspects of the same thing perception
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:33.270
and valition.
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:35.990
Perception is like the the form aspect.
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:37.670
Volion is the function. Form and
00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:40.150
function,
00:57:40.160 --> 00:57:46.710
so to speak, noun and verb.
00:57:46.720 --> 00:57:49.109
So, I hope I answered that question at
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:52.150
least somewhat satisfactorily. Hope he
00:57:52.160 --> 00:57:54.950
doesn't just spit and turn off the turn
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:57.589
off the video after hearing that answer
00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:58.870
because I'm moving on to the next one
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:01.270
from Cyrus Frame.
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.589
Is mindfulness the awareness of
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:05.190
perceptions?
00:58:05.200 --> 00:58:07.990
It seems clear when noting, looking,
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:10.549
hearing, etc., but not so clear when
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:13.190
noting thinking.
00:58:13.200 --> 00:58:14.950
H. Yeah, it's hard to note thinking.
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.430
That's one thing about noting it
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:20.069
apparently, just going with scientism,
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:22.789
it apparently uses the same centers of
00:58:22.799 --> 00:58:25.750
your brain as thinking. that noting of
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.309
the thinking and the thinking they use
00:58:28.319 --> 00:58:31.190
the same areas of your brain apparently
00:58:31.200 --> 00:58:32.710
so that you can't do both at the same
00:58:32.720 --> 00:58:35.190
time. So if you're thinking and you note
00:58:35.200 --> 00:58:37.589
the thinking, it stops the thought as a
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:39.109
general like if you're doing mahasi
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:42.069
style noting. On the other hand, you get
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:44.470
music stuck in your mind, you can note
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:45.910
it to your blue in the face and
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:47.990
sometimes that music won't stop. It's
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:49.990
like it's a different part of your brain
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.349
so that like the noting doesn't preempt
00:58:53.359 --> 00:58:56.630
it.
00:58:56.640 --> 00:58:58.150
But I wouldn't say that mindfulness is
00:58:58.160 --> 00:58:59.829
the awareness of perceptions.
00:58:59.839 --> 00:59:02.710
Mindfulness is like the simplification
00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:05.109
and minimization of perceptions. If
00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.589
you're being mindful, so you like you
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:09.270
hear the barking dog, you know, you're
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:10.950
sitting there meditating, a dog starts
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:13.750
barking outside the window, then if
00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:16.710
you're being mindful, you're being
00:59:16.720 --> 00:59:20.069
aware, you're like noting the the
00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:21.910
auditory
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:24.309
auditory perception or just the auditory
00:59:24.319 --> 00:59:28.230
sensation of hearing. You're just you're
00:59:28.240 --> 00:59:31.430
aware of hearing and and you're you're
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:34.470
like aware of like the the textures of
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:36.230
the sound, you know, when it starts,
00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:38.150
when it stops, what it sounds like, and
00:59:38.160 --> 00:59:40.710
so forth. It's just that you're not you
00:59:40.720 --> 00:59:42.870
you don't have like a running commentary
00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:44.870
about whose dog is that and they
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:46.549
shouldn't have their dog barking outside
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:49.109
my window. They should train their dog
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:51.430
better, etc., etc., blah blah blah. Next
00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:53.430
thing you know, you're thinking about
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:54.630
what you're going to have for lunch
00:59:54.640 --> 00:59:56.390
tomorrow.
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:59.829
So mindfulness is reducing perception.
00:59:59.839 --> 01:00:01.510
And when you get to the perfection of
01:00:01.520 --> 01:00:03.510
mindfulness, fourth Janna, which is
01:00:03.520 --> 01:00:06.390
considered to be perfect mindfulness,
01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:08.309
you're not thinking anything. You know,
01:00:08.319 --> 01:00:10.390
it's just like you're as close as you
01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:14.150
can get to just bare sensation or not
01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:16.630
bare sensation, but bare consciousness,
01:00:16.640 --> 01:00:18.789
pure consciousness
01:00:18.799 --> 01:00:22.230
with almost no perceptual content at
01:00:22.240 --> 01:00:25.990
all. So mindfulness is reduction of
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.990
perception not so much awareness of it.
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:30.549
I mean just by having bare awareness
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:32.150
nonjudgmental
01:00:32.160 --> 01:00:34.870
choiceless awareness like Krishna Murdy
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:38.549
talks about that I mean that reduces the
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:39.829
perceptions because you don't have like
01:00:39.839 --> 01:00:42.549
this running commentary you know your
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:44.230
your thoughts aren't hooking up in
01:00:44.240 --> 01:00:48.549
sequence.
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:50.870
Let's see mindfulness the awareness of
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:52.870
perceptions. Yeah, I mean it in a sense
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:54.630
it is the awareness of perception, but
01:00:54.640 --> 01:00:56.309
that's not how you would define it
01:00:56.319 --> 01:00:59.589
really because it's like awareness of
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.069
bare perception. You know, the simplest
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:05.270
form of perception that you can manage
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.270
until finally you get to the perfection
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:10.950
of mindfulness. You've got virtually no
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.670
perceptions at all cuz you're in fourth
01:01:13.680 --> 01:01:16.390
gen.
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.589
So mindfulness is reducing perception so
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:21.829
that you don't have all this thinking
01:01:21.839 --> 01:01:23.829
and labeling and commentary and stuff
01:01:23.839 --> 01:01:26.069
going on. At first at a beginning level
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:27.750
of mindfulness, you're still labeling.
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:29.910
You get better at mindfulness, you do
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:31.349
away with the labeling. You just direct
01:01:31.359 --> 01:01:33.109
your attention at the thing and observe
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.829
it without having to to slap a word onto
01:01:35.839 --> 01:01:37.829
it. And then when you get even better,
01:01:37.839 --> 01:01:40.630
you're you're so aware like you're
01:01:40.640 --> 01:01:42.630
you're your your mindfulness is like
01:01:42.640 --> 01:01:45.349
observing the the surface of a still
01:01:45.359 --> 01:01:48.390
pool. And if a thought even starts to
01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:52.069
arise, then you you notice the ripples
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:54.069
immediately. And it's like the noting of
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:55.829
that just causes the ripples to just
01:01:55.839 --> 01:01:57.270
fade back out again. And you're just
01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:03.510
sitting there in a state of silence.
01:02:03.520 --> 01:02:06.950
So mindfulness is the simplification of
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:10.230
perception let's say
01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:13.750
through like
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:18.470
uh what would be like intense awareness
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.030
I mean in in Burma like the warning
01:02:21.040 --> 01:02:23.430
signs you know they don't say caution or
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:28.549
warning or octung they say or in Burmese
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:31.030
which you know it's like attention
01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:36.150
So mindfulness is like attention.
01:02:36.160 --> 01:02:37.910
Okay, let's just move on to Cyrus
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:40.309
Frame's third question.
01:02:40.319 --> 01:02:44.230
He says you I'm assuming it's a he. You
01:02:44.240 --> 01:02:46.870
are not the mind. The mind is just what
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:49.430
is playing on the screen of awareness.
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:51.750
Do you think this is true? Well, you are
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:55.510
not the mind. Yeah, except um I mean if
01:02:55.520 --> 01:02:58.069
there is
01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:00.150
I mean there are certain ways where you
01:03:00.160 --> 01:03:02.789
could identify the ego with the mind. I
01:03:02.799 --> 01:03:05.430
mean obviously the ego is itself a
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:07.510
projection of mind. So the ego would be
01:03:07.520 --> 01:03:09.829
mind and that's kind of what you are
01:03:09.839 --> 01:03:12.870
because you don't really exist. So the
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:16.390
like the the illusion of you is just
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:18.309
pure mind.
01:03:18.319 --> 01:03:20.630
So set that aside. Let's just say there
01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:23.349
is no mind or there is there is no you,
01:03:23.359 --> 01:03:25.510
no self, anata.
01:03:25.520 --> 01:03:27.430
So then it would be correct. You are not
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.990
the mind. The mind is just what is
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.710
playing on the screen of awareness.
01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:34.230
Well,
01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:37.029
not really. The mind is the screen of
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:39.990
awareness and mental states might be
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:41.349
what is playing on the screen of
01:03:41.359 --> 01:03:44.630
awareness. Like in Abidama philosophy
01:03:44.640 --> 01:03:47.750
or just the five theory whatever you've
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:51.109
got mind or consciousness is different
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:53.430
from mental states you know in in
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:57.270
abidama it's cheetah is consciousness
01:03:57.280 --> 01:03:59.670
chetika is mental states which would
01:03:59.680 --> 01:04:02.710
include perceptions and vitions feelings
01:04:02.720 --> 01:04:05.829
that kind of stuff.
01:04:05.839 --> 01:04:09.510
So the mind more correctly would be
01:04:09.520 --> 01:04:12.470
consciousness itself.
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:15.670
And so what is playing on the screen of
01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:19.750
consciousness would be mental states.
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:21.270
So
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:24.950
it's some it's kind of true somewhat
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:26.870
true.
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.829
And I'm just going to see make sure that
01:04:29.839 --> 01:04:31.750
I at least kind of did some kind of
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:34.309
justice to that question. Yeah, I guess
01:04:34.319 --> 01:04:35.670
so. I'm going to move on to the next
01:04:35.680 --> 01:04:37.109
question. This is from Christian. And
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:39.750
I'm not sure if this is a like a legit
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.990
question that was expecting an answer.
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:44.710
This is from a person called Christian.
01:04:44.720 --> 01:04:47.430
Whether that's their real name or not, I
01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:50.630
don't know. But they were talking they
01:04:50.640 --> 01:04:52.549
left a comment under the previous Q&A
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:54.870
about how ridiculous it is that there is
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:57.670
even an idea of enlightenment.
01:04:57.680 --> 01:05:01.190
And I I'd point it out. I mean, it's it
01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:03.109
isn't meaningless,
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:04.870
you know, it couldn't it can be like a
01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:07.510
an enigma or paradox, but at least from
01:05:07.520 --> 01:05:09.029
a Buddhist point of view, enlightenment
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:12.309
is not meaningless.
01:05:12.319 --> 01:05:15.029
So, Christian responded with, "If you
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:16.950
search for enlightenment, aren't you
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.750
bound to attachment? Also, what does it
01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:21.990
mean to be enlightened? How do you know
01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:23.270
if you haven't achieved it?" Well,
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:24.630
that's three questions, isn't it? I
01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:26.549
wasn't expecting this.
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:28.390
I just cut and paste. I just thought it
01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:30.710
was one question.
01:05:30.720 --> 01:05:34.950
Oh, how naive I was. Okay, Christian.
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:36.789
First question. If you search for
01:05:36.799 --> 01:05:38.390
enlightenment, are you bound to
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:40.950
attachment? At first, yeah, because it's
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:43.589
it's like skillful means. I've I've
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:45.029
mentioned this before. I've written
01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:49.190
essays on this where it's like if you
01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:51.670
commit yourself to seeking enlightenment
01:05:51.680 --> 01:05:53.990
to living the holy life it's like you
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.549
reduce your desires and attachments
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:58.789
pretty much down to one. You know it's
01:05:58.799 --> 01:06:01.270
like your desire for sex, drugs and rock
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:03.349
and roll and pizza and ice cream and all
01:06:03.359 --> 01:06:05.829
that. You know you have kind of
01:06:05.839 --> 01:06:07.750
renounced those attachments but still
01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:09.430
you have this one attachment for
01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:11.829
enlightenment. But so long as you have
01:06:11.839 --> 01:06:14.309
that still have that one attachment,
01:06:14.319 --> 01:06:16.150
it's still an obstacle to enlightenment.
01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:18.150
So what happens is you try as hard as
01:06:18.160 --> 01:06:21.589
you can and you fail because you still
01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:23.349
have this one obstacle which is your
01:06:23.359 --> 01:06:25.349
desire for enlightenment. So that at
01:06:25.359 --> 01:06:28.789
some point through insight or despair or
01:06:28.799 --> 01:06:31.349
whatever it is, you eventually just let
01:06:31.359 --> 01:06:34.470
go of that last attachment. Boom, there
01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.750
you are.
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:40.549
So I mean it's common to other religious
01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:42.549
systems also this this moment of
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:45.670
surrender of just giving up um you know
01:06:45.680 --> 01:06:47.349
it's a big deal in some schools of
01:06:47.359 --> 01:06:50.789
Christianity also
01:06:50.799 --> 01:06:54.230
but you're not bound to attachment
01:06:54.240 --> 01:06:56.950
um at the moment of enlightenment you
01:06:56.960 --> 01:06:58.870
know it's like you have to let go of
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:01.109
that last attachment in order for
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:03.990
enlightenment to occur but still this
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:05.990
attachment for enlightenment serves
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:07.990
serves as kind of like a gimmick or
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:11.109
skillful means to help you like get rid
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:12.630
of these other attachments. You know,
01:07:12.640 --> 01:07:14.309
it's like all your eggs are in one
01:07:14.319 --> 01:07:16.950
basket and then you just let go of that
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:20.230
last basket of eggs, so to speak, and
01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:22.710
there you are.
01:07:22.720 --> 01:07:25.190
So, Christian, second question also,
01:07:25.200 --> 01:07:29.270
what does it mean to be enlightened?
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:31.109
Well,
01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:34.309
I suppose you I could just start off
01:07:34.319 --> 01:07:37.910
with just some of the like standard
01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:39.910
Buddhist explanations. You know, it is
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:43.109
the end of suffering, end of dooka, or
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:45.270
it is the end of greed, hate, and
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:47.510
delusion. Or if you prefer, it is the
01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:49.190
end of attraction, aversion, and
01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:52.230
semic-conscious stupidity.
01:07:52.240 --> 01:07:53.990
or
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:57.349
like what I would be inclined to say it
01:07:57.359 --> 01:08:00.870
means to be enlightened is block of
01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:02.150
marble. We're going back to the block of
01:08:02.160 --> 01:08:04.789
marble again. You got this uncarved
01:08:04.799 --> 01:08:06.549
block which contains within it all
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:09.750
possible statues and delusion and some
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.150
sora is believing that these virtual
01:08:12.160 --> 01:08:13.910
conditional statues inside the block of
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.070
marble are real. At least some of them I
01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:17.829
mean you're only aware of like a finite
01:08:17.839 --> 01:08:22.149
number of them. So enlightenment is I
01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:24.309
mean you practice
01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:27.110
dharma dharma you know you practice
01:08:27.120 --> 01:08:31.430
meditation so that um
01:08:31.440 --> 01:08:33.110
gosh
01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:35.269
I I've explained this many times I think
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:37.510
Christian might be a new viewer though
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:39.510
so let's forget the block of marble for
01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:41.910
a minute you've got consciousness is
01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.749
water mental states are waves most
01:08:45.759 --> 01:08:48.309
people like unenlightened people are
01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:50.390
completely locked in to the level of
01:08:50.400 --> 01:08:53.030
form of waves. You know, they have no
01:08:53.040 --> 01:08:56.149
concept of water really. It's just
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:58.229
waves. I like this wave. I don't like
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:00.070
that wave. This wave is good. That wave
01:09:00.080 --> 01:09:02.309
is bad, etc., etc.
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.189
So by practicing the holy life,
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:07.349
practicing morality, and practicing
01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:11.189
meditation, you calm the water until you
01:09:11.199 --> 01:09:14.550
get good enough at meditation that we're
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:17.349
just good enough at calming the water by
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:20.390
by any means that the waves are no
01:09:20.400 --> 01:09:22.550
longer distracting you. You can't really
01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:24.070
identify with the waves because they're
01:09:24.080 --> 01:09:26.149
not there anymore. or at least it
01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:29.990
becomes so subtle that you're able
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:33.829
through insight to go beyond the mere
01:09:33.839 --> 01:09:38.630
level of forms into just water
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:41.749
and then so that's that would be like a
01:09:41.759 --> 01:09:44.309
kind of insight and when you're
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:47.030
practicing Janna in terra Buddhism
01:09:47.040 --> 01:09:49.349
that's called temporary liberation right
01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:51.269
there it's like a it's like a temporary
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:53.910
enlightenment when you're sitting there
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:55.830
not thinking anything. So you can't be
01:09:55.840 --> 01:09:58.630
distracted by samsaric forms because you
01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:03.110
have temporarily just like subdued the
01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:05.669
samsaric forms. So you're liberated from
01:10:05.679 --> 01:10:08.550
samsaric forms temporarily while you're
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:11.750
in this johnic state. But the trick is
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:13.910
and Zen Buddhism talks about this more
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:16.550
than than terraat does as far as I know.
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.149
You've got what is called zen in the
01:10:18.159 --> 01:10:21.350
marketplace. Once you have been able to
01:10:21.360 --> 01:10:23.430
see water instead of being completely
01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:26.310
distracted by waves, then the waves can
01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:29.669
come back. And that's according to Zen
01:10:29.679 --> 01:10:32.470
Buddhism, that's a thousand times better
01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:36.790
than like enlightenment. Like sitting
01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:40.070
cross-legged on a cushion is when you're
01:10:40.080 --> 01:10:42.550
like in the marketplace and you're
01:10:42.560 --> 01:10:44.390
making noise, moving around. Everyone
01:10:44.400 --> 01:10:46.070
around you is making noise, moving
01:10:46.080 --> 01:10:48.470
around. you still
01:10:48.480 --> 01:10:52.390
are focused or like um not necessarily
01:10:52.400 --> 01:10:54.709
focused, but I mean you're you're like
01:10:54.719 --> 01:10:57.430
existing at the level of water and all
01:10:57.440 --> 01:10:59.669
these waves are just irrelevant. You
01:10:59.679 --> 01:11:02.070
know, they're still there.
01:11:02.080 --> 01:11:03.750
You know, it reminds me of the old Zen
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:06.550
saying that I've repeated several times.
01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:09.910
You know, it's like the the meditation
01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:12.310
hall can be resounding the shouts of the
01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:14.550
master and blows from his stick can be
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:17.110
falling like rain, but still the master
01:11:17.120 --> 01:11:20.390
abides in stillness and silence because
01:11:20.400 --> 01:11:22.310
he's got zen in the marketplace. He's
01:11:22.320 --> 01:11:24.709
not distracted by the forms. He's at the
01:11:24.719 --> 01:11:26.870
level of water. He's at the level of
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.030
uncarved block instead of all these
01:11:29.040 --> 01:11:31.189
possible like conditional virtual
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:32.870
statues.
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:35.590
So that would be what enlightenment is
01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:38.149
is you're existing at the level of
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:39.830
consciousness and not the level of
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:44.709
mental states.
01:11:44.719 --> 01:11:47.510
And I I explain it over and over again.
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:49.270
And some people will ask, you know, kind
01:11:49.280 --> 01:11:50.950
of the same question over and over again
01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:52.470
because they don't get it because it it
01:11:52.480 --> 01:11:56.070
is it takes some kind of like
01:11:56.080 --> 01:11:58.870
multi-dimensional thinking to grasp it.
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:00.070
It's like dealing with two different
01:12:00.080 --> 01:12:02.470
levels of reality simultaneously. And
01:12:02.480 --> 01:12:03.910
some people just can't deal with that.
01:12:03.920 --> 01:12:06.550
Even like intellectual people, you know,
01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:11.430
like brilliant physicists and so forth
01:12:11.440 --> 01:12:13.910
is is for some people they're just so
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.870
completely locked into an intellectual
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:18.790
perceptualbased
01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:21.189
understanding of reality that they just
01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:22.950
can't they just can't separate
01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:26.070
themselves from that.
01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:28.229
So
01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:30.070
Christian's third question, how do you
01:12:30.080 --> 01:12:32.229
know if you haven't achieved
01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:34.630
enlightenment? Well, I mean, if you're
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.550
still wallowing in some sorrow, if
01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:40.550
you're still experiencing suffering,
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:43.990
if you're still unhappy sometimes, that
01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:46.550
would be a good indication of it.
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.709
You know, if you're just raging at some
01:12:48.719 --> 01:12:50.550
old lady and kicking her dog, then
01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:51.830
that's a good sign that you're not
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:53.830
enlightened.
01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:55.830
Um,
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:58.310
but I mean it's tricky and it's it's
01:12:58.320 --> 01:13:01.669
paradoxical and enigmatic enlightenment
01:13:01.679 --> 01:13:04.790
is because of that waves coming back
01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:07.270
deal. You know, the waves can come back
01:13:07.280 --> 01:13:08.950
and you can still be enlightened even
01:13:08.960 --> 01:13:10.709
though it may look to another person.
01:13:10.719 --> 01:13:12.709
Wow, look at all that that stormy sea
01:13:12.719 --> 01:13:15.270
going on over there. So that's that's
01:13:15.280 --> 01:13:18.790
the tricky part. And some Hayana
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:20.470
Buddhists especially some Hindus
01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:22.550
probably too say that I mean everyone is
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:24.790
ultimately enlightened because the water
01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:27.110
is always there. It's just you're
01:13:27.120 --> 01:13:29.750
distracted by the the waves but the
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:31.669
water is always there just like the the
01:13:31.679 --> 01:13:33.350
essence of enlightenment is always
01:13:33.360 --> 01:13:36.229
there. I assume that's largely what
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:37.910
Mahayana Buddhists are calling Buddha
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.550
nature.
01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:42.310
I mean how far away are you from
01:13:42.320 --> 01:13:43.830
ultimate reality? I mean it's right
01:13:43.840 --> 01:13:48.630
here. We're soaking in it.
01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:50.550
So, I'm just going to move on. Next
01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:52.870
question. This also might be just like a
01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:55.189
rhetorical question.
01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:56.870
This is from Jeffrey. He says, "I like
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:59.669
to meditate with cigars." Probably not
01:13:59.679 --> 01:14:02.790
correct, but it's not really me, so why
01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:04.550
not?
01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:07.350
Well, I mean, you can meditate with
01:14:07.360 --> 01:14:11.189
cigars. Ajan man who is like the
01:14:11.199 --> 01:14:14.229
stereotypical example of an arahant in
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:17.430
Thai Buddhism. You know Ajan Cha and
01:14:17.440 --> 01:14:20.149
Ajan man. Maybe Ajan Mahabua would be
01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:24.870
like the three big like just sages of
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:29.189
modern like 20th century Thai Buddhism.
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.430
And Ajan man was a chain smoker. I
01:14:31.440 --> 01:14:33.270
assume he smoked a lot of village
01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:35.750
cigars. I don't know if they had like
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:38.870
western style cigarettes insiam 100
01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:42.550
years ago
01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:45.669
and he was is believed to have been
01:14:45.679 --> 01:14:47.510
fully enlightened
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:49.030
despite the fact that I mean if you
01:14:49.040 --> 01:14:52.470
smoke tobacco regularly that officially
01:14:52.480 --> 01:14:57.910
technically makes you a drug addict but
01:14:57.920 --> 01:14:59.669
that's just kind of a weird thing isn't
01:14:59.679 --> 01:15:01.510
it? You've got an enlightened drug
01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:04.709
addict. Well, I mean, if someone else is
01:15:04.719 --> 01:15:06.470
addicted to some substance, then that's
01:15:06.480 --> 01:15:09.510
maybe a ray of hope. Well, John Mutton
01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:12.390
was addicted to nicotine apparently.
01:15:12.400 --> 01:15:14.070
Maybe because he was enlightened, he
01:15:14.080 --> 01:15:15.430
just kind of transcended it. That was
01:15:15.440 --> 01:15:18.070
just part of the stormy sea or the sea,
01:15:18.080 --> 01:15:21.110
the waves, and he just wasn't attack. He
01:15:21.120 --> 01:15:23.590
wasn't identified with that anymore,
01:15:23.600 --> 01:15:25.189
even though his body may still have been
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.350
addicted to nicotine.
01:15:27.360 --> 01:15:29.350
So, I mean, if you can smoke a cigar
01:15:29.360 --> 01:15:31.910
mindfully, I mean, it couldn't be like
01:15:31.920 --> 01:15:33.430
just a little ritual, sort of like the
01:15:33.440 --> 01:15:35.990
Japanese tea ceremony, you know, there's
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:37.590
the ritual. You you're cutting the end
01:15:37.600 --> 01:15:39.830
of the cigar and you're mindfully
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:41.669
holding it, feeling the texture and
01:15:41.679 --> 01:15:44.229
smelling the aromomas and mindfully
01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:46.149
lighting it and watching, you're
01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:47.590
mindfully puffing. You know, you're
01:15:47.600 --> 01:15:50.310
mindful of the the muscles in your mouth
01:15:50.320 --> 01:15:51.910
as you're puffing on it and watching
01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:53.750
the, you know, the little flames
01:15:53.760 --> 01:15:55.510
shooting up as you take the puffs and
01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:56.790
all that.
01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:59.669
Mindfully inhaling, mindfully exhaling,
01:15:59.679 --> 01:16:01.669
mindfully feeling the effects of the
01:16:01.679 --> 01:16:04.550
nicotine in your system. I mean, if
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:06.950
you're doing that, that's still legit
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:09.510
meditation. If you're you're smoking the
01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:11.910
cigar mindfully.
01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:13.510
I mean, technically, you could do like
01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:14.709
mindfulness and breathing, you know,
01:16:14.719 --> 01:16:17.030
breathing in, breathing out, well,
01:16:17.040 --> 01:16:20.550
taking puffs of the the cigar, I guess.
01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:22.149
But anything you do mindfully is
01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.390
meditation. I mean you can be having sex
01:16:24.400 --> 01:16:26.390
mindfully and that's still it's it's
01:16:26.400 --> 01:16:28.709
like tantra still a kind of meditation.
01:16:28.719 --> 01:16:30.470
It may not be the ideal kind of
01:16:30.480 --> 01:16:33.910
meditation but still I mean you can you
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:36.790
inject some meditation into just about
01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:41.590
any activity. Taking a dump for example.
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:45.110
So yeah why not? It's not really you
01:16:45.120 --> 01:16:48.229
anyway is it? Because there is no self.
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:50.390
If you are anything, you'd be more just
01:16:50.400 --> 01:16:52.950
the sea of consciousness rather than all
01:16:52.960 --> 01:16:56.470
these distracting waves,
01:16:56.480 --> 01:16:59.590
so to speak. But then again, Buddhists
01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:02.310
are supposed to reify the absolute
01:17:02.320 --> 01:17:04.950
even though the Abidama scholars did big
01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:07.910
time.
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:09.189
So, I'm just going to move on. Next
01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:11.669
question. This is from Xenithoid. We've
01:17:11.679 --> 01:17:14.310
been going for an hour and 17 minutes.
01:17:14.320 --> 01:17:17.430
This next question is from Xenithoid.
01:17:17.440 --> 01:17:19.510
You've said that Buddhism in its
01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:22.149
masculine form is the negation of
01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:24.870
delusion and in its feminine form it is
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:27.350
the negation of suffering.
01:17:27.360 --> 01:17:29.030
Are delusion and suffering not
01:17:29.040 --> 01:17:31.830
ultimately the same thing? Well, I have
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:35.430
said that like the more headoriented and
01:17:35.440 --> 01:17:37.910
thus stereotypically
01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:40.870
more masculine approach to dharma is a
01:17:40.880 --> 01:17:43.830
concern with you know freeing oneself
01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:46.870
from delusion. Whereas the more heart
01:17:46.880 --> 01:17:48.630
oriented and stereotypically more
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.550
feminine approach to dharma is
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:54.149
liberating oneself from suffering.
01:17:54.159 --> 01:17:57.750
But ultimately if you have reduced
01:17:57.760 --> 01:18:00.470
suffering to zero that's the same as
01:18:00.480 --> 01:18:03.430
reducing delusion to to zero. I don't
01:18:03.440 --> 01:18:05.030
think delusion and suffering are
01:18:05.040 --> 01:18:06.870
necessarily the same thing. They're
01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:10.070
certainly not defined as synonyms in the
01:18:10.080 --> 01:18:11.990
texts. But you don't suffer without
01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:14.149
delusion. If you don't have any
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:15.510
delusion, you don't have any suffering
01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:17.750
either. So in order to eliminate
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.149
suffering, you still have to eliminate
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:23.350
delusion. It's just that the end result
01:18:23.360 --> 01:18:25.510
may be perceived as different. But
01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:27.030
either way, you have to eliminate
01:18:27.040 --> 01:18:32.470
delusion because that's unenlightenment.
01:18:32.480 --> 01:18:35.270
So delusion and suffering,
01:18:35.280 --> 01:18:36.870
I mean, they're ultimately the same
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:39.750
thing and ultimately they're just like
01:18:39.760 --> 01:18:42.390
imaginary statues in the block of
01:18:42.400 --> 01:18:45.990
marble. I mean, they're not defined as
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:49.030
synonyms, but without delusion, you
01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:52.070
don't suffer. And so, in order to stop
01:18:52.080 --> 01:18:57.189
suffering, you have to cut the the link
01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:01.270
generally. I mean it's like like desire
01:19:01.280 --> 01:19:02.790
you know desire is the cause of all
01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:04.709
suffering delusion is the cause of all
01:19:04.719 --> 01:19:10.470
desire.
01:19:10.480 --> 01:19:14.630
So in order to like stop experiencing
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:17.830
desire you have to have such intense
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:21.590
mindfulness that you can I mean that
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:26.229
you're not diluted anymore.
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:27.750
So I mean that's that's how I would
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.390
explain it there. Ultimately I mean
01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:32.310
ultimately it's just meaningless because
01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:34.070
ultimately you can't explain reality in
01:19:34.080 --> 01:19:36.950
words. You know ultimately there are no
01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:40.310
different things that dividing the world
01:19:40.320 --> 01:19:42.950
into a multiplicity is like an
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.270
artificial
01:19:45.280 --> 01:19:47.910
artificial construct. It's a projection
01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:50.950
by by the mind.
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:55.669
It is delusion ultimately.
01:19:55.679 --> 01:19:57.430
But you can't have suffering without
01:19:57.440 --> 01:19:58.950
desire. And you can't have desire
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:01.430
without delusion.
01:20:01.440 --> 01:20:03.510
So by eliminating delusion, you
01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:06.229
eliminate all three.
01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:09.030
And you can't eliminate suffering
01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:10.470
without eliminating the first two
01:20:10.480 --> 01:20:12.070
anyway.
01:20:12.080 --> 01:20:14.550
So it's all about delusion. And it seems
01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:18.550
to me
01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:21.669
even if that is not like the deliberate
01:20:21.679 --> 01:20:23.910
focus of one's practice that's the way
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:26.630
it works out.
01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:29.910
So we head oriented people are a little
01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:32.070
deeper in that kind of understanding
01:20:32.080 --> 01:20:33.830
maybe
01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:34.950
and I'm just going to move on to the
01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:39.669
next question. This is from Dhamma River
01:20:39.679 --> 01:20:42.470
and Dhamma River asks a kind of
01:20:42.480 --> 01:20:45.430
technical Dhhamma question here. He
01:20:45.440 --> 01:20:48.149
says, "I wonder if you could please read
01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:51.830
a very short suta in the samuta nikaya."
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:54.470
Before answering this question, it's the
01:20:54.480 --> 01:20:59.350
kasapa samyuta suta 8 exhortation 3. It
01:20:59.360 --> 01:21:01.590
ends with this sentence and that is my
01:21:01.600 --> 01:21:03.510
question. Could you please explain what
01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:07.750
this sentence means? And so
01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:10.870
here's the the concluding sentence or
01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:13.510
concluding paragraph of this suta which
01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:16.630
I did read. I read Bikub's translation.
01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:19.430
He says if Kasapa one speaking rightly
01:21:19.440 --> 01:21:22.070
could say those leading the holy life
01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:23.990
have been ruined by the ruination of
01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:26.070
those who lead the holy life. Those
01:21:26.080 --> 01:21:27.590
leading the holy life have been
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:29.350
vanquished by the vanquishing of those
01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:33.350
who lead the holy life. It is just it is
01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:35.430
just thus that one could rightly say
01:21:35.440 --> 01:21:37.030
this.
01:21:37.040 --> 01:21:39.030
Okay. So I did read the suta as I
01:21:39.040 --> 01:21:41.990
already said and it doesn't strike me as
01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:44.310
a particularly early one. There is some
01:21:44.320 --> 01:21:47.669
anacronism in this suta
01:21:47.679 --> 01:21:49.750
and I mean the whole purpose of the suda
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:51.910
is talking about how monks used to be
01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:54.390
like conscientious aesthetic forest
01:21:54.400 --> 01:21:57.590
dwellers dedicated to meditation and now
01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:01.510
like the most the most highprofile most
01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:04.470
respected monks are just the famous ones
01:22:04.480 --> 01:22:07.189
that are good at talking. So I mean that
01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:09.270
in itself is something that you would
01:22:09.280 --> 01:22:11.669
expect later on in Buddhism than during
01:22:11.679 --> 01:22:13.669
the Buddha's own lifetime when he's
01:22:13.679 --> 01:22:15.830
still leading the SA. And also there's
01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:18.149
an anacronism here in this sentence or
01:22:18.159 --> 01:22:22.229
this paragraph. He says I mean the
01:22:22.239 --> 01:22:24.709
Buddha asks Kasapa let's let's just do a
01:22:24.719 --> 01:22:26.950
little synopsis of this suta. The Buddha
01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:29.430
asks Mahakasapa who is his senior
01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:32.950
disciple to if he wants to give a sermon
01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:35.110
to the monks. And then Ma Kasapa says,
01:22:35.120 --> 01:22:36.870
"The monks don't even listen anymore.
01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:38.870
They're not respectful anymore." And
01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:43.830
then the Buddha says, "Just so Kasapa in
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:46.229
the past the elder beus were forest
01:22:46.239 --> 01:22:48.229
dwellers and spoke in praise of forest
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:50.550
dwelling. They were alms food eaters and
01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:52.550
spoke in praise of eating alms food.
01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:54.870
They were ragrobe wearers and spoke in
01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:57.110
praise of wearing rag robes. They were
01:22:57.120 --> 01:22:59.750
triple robe users and spoke in praise of
01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:02.149
using the triple robe. They were of few
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:04.229
wishes and spoke in praise of fewness of
01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:06.550
wishes. They were content and spoke in
01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:08.470
praise of contentment. They were
01:23:08.480 --> 01:23:10.390
secluded and spoke in praise of
01:23:10.400 --> 01:23:12.709
solitude. They were aloof from society
01:23:12.719 --> 01:23:14.790
and spoke in praise of aloofness from
01:23:14.800 --> 01:23:17.270
society. They were energetic and spoken
01:23:17.280 --> 01:23:19.590
praise of arousing energy. And then he
01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:21.350
talks about how nowadays, you know,
01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:23.270
they're just the ones that get the most
01:23:23.280 --> 01:23:27.270
donations are like the most respected.
01:23:27.280 --> 01:23:29.510
But you look at this this part this part
01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:31.910
here is especially they were triple robe
01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:33.990
users and spoken praise of using the
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:37.189
triple robe that's in the pimoka rules.
01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:39.750
It it later on it came to be like this
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:42.950
optional practice but this built right
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:45.830
into the Buddhist monastic code that all
01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:49.189
monks are supposed to be triple robe.
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:51.110
You don't keep more than three robes.
01:23:51.120 --> 01:23:54.070
It's a nisagia pacidia offense to keep
01:23:54.080 --> 01:23:57.110
an extra robe for more than 10 days.
01:23:57.120 --> 01:24:00.310
it with if if you keep an extra robe, a
01:24:00.320 --> 01:24:02.709
fourth robe, which is just a rectangle
01:24:02.719 --> 01:24:06.229
of cloth for more than 10 days, then you
01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:08.550
have to you have committed a nisia
01:24:08.560 --> 01:24:11.750
pacidia offense. You have to relinquish
01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:13.590
the extra robe and then you have to make
01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:16.950
confession for it. So this suta
01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:19.830
apparently arose at a time when that
01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:22.390
pimoka rule had already become kind of
01:24:22.400 --> 01:24:25.270
obsolete through just people not monks
01:24:25.280 --> 01:24:28.070
not following it and nowadays there are
01:24:28.080 --> 01:24:31.430
very few monks that follow that rule
01:24:31.440 --> 01:24:34.070
like a John Tenisro in his famous book
01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:35.990
on the Buddhist monastic code you know
01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:39.030
he he just follows the Thai loopholes of
01:24:39.040 --> 01:24:40.950
getting around this rule and he just
01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:43.510
says it's if you call it something
01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:45.110
besides a rogue robe, then it's not a
01:24:45.120 --> 01:24:47.430
robe. You just designate it as accessory
01:24:47.440 --> 01:24:50.229
cloth. Parachola,
01:24:50.239 --> 01:24:52.790
just call it parach. It's not a robe.
01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:54.229
Even though you're wearing it as a robe,
01:24:54.239 --> 01:24:56.629
it looks like a robe. And which is is
01:24:56.639 --> 01:24:59.030
just nonsense. It's just playing games
01:24:59.040 --> 01:25:02.149
trying to avoid following a rule.
01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:05.189
And by the time this suta was composed,
01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:07.990
this had already happened.
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:10.229
Which is kind of unlikely that during
01:25:10.239 --> 01:25:13.669
the Buddha's own time
01:25:13.679 --> 01:25:16.470
that monks would already have abandoned
01:25:16.480 --> 01:25:19.910
this pyoka rule.
01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:22.390
So
01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:26.070
I would say that this this uh this suta
01:25:26.080 --> 01:25:28.790
arose later on. I mean probably not much
01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:31.350
later on because it is in the in the
01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:34.310
depitica. It is in the sutapitica
01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:36.629
but I would guess that it is kind of an
01:25:36.639 --> 01:25:40.550
anacronistic madeup kind of suta.
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:44.709
So I mean the whole the whole spiel here
01:25:44.719 --> 01:25:48.149
is that in in the early days of the sa I
01:25:48.159 --> 01:25:49.590
mean the Buddha is actually supposed to
01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:51.750
be saying this. So it's like it's it's
01:25:51.760 --> 01:25:53.430
kind of weird but the Buddha is saying
01:25:53.440 --> 01:25:55.270
in the early days of the song the monks
01:25:55.280 --> 01:25:57.830
were you know dedicated aesthetic
01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:00.629
meditators lived a life of simplicity
01:26:00.639 --> 01:26:03.189
and so they got the most respect and so
01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:05.990
that new converts to the SA would look
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:07.270
at these monks that were getting the
01:26:07.280 --> 01:26:10.790
most respect and emulate them. But later
01:26:10.800 --> 01:26:13.830
on in the SA monks that are the most
01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:16.629
respected are the ones that are getting
01:26:16.639 --> 01:26:18.390
the most donations. you know, they're
01:26:18.400 --> 01:26:21.430
the best the best talkers, this kind of
01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:25.430
thing. And so, new um new monks entering
01:26:25.440 --> 01:26:28.709
the SA, they look at at them as being
01:26:28.719 --> 01:26:30.629
the most respected, and so they emulate
01:26:30.639 --> 01:26:35.510
them. So, we get to this statement in
01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:37.990
question. Those leading the holy life
01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:39.910
have been ruined by the ruination of
01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:41.910
those who lead the holy life. Those
01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:43.270
leading the holy life have been
01:26:43.280 --> 01:26:45.350
vanquished by the vanquishing of those
01:26:45.360 --> 01:26:48.470
who lead the holy life. So essentially
01:26:48.480 --> 01:26:49.830
what it means, although it's kind of
01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:55.189
awkwardly worded, is that when monks
01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:57.750
start getting corrupt and then they
01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.550
become the leaders of the SA and they're
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:04.070
the most respected monks, then the new
01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:06.149
monks are just following in their
01:27:06.159 --> 01:27:09.669
footsteps and becoming corrupt also. I
01:27:09.679 --> 01:27:12.229
mean, that's essentially what it means.
01:27:12.239 --> 01:27:15.350
So those leading the holy life now have
01:27:15.360 --> 01:27:17.110
been ruined by the ruination of those
01:27:17.120 --> 01:27:19.590
who led the holy life in previously
01:27:19.600 --> 01:27:22.310
because they're emulating them. That's
01:27:22.320 --> 01:27:25.510
how I interpret it anyway.
01:27:25.520 --> 01:27:27.990
And that's I mean it's I mentioned in a
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.110
recent Q&A that I did meet the the
01:27:31.120 --> 01:27:33.750
Burmese equivalent to the SA Mahar the
01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:36.310
Sa Raja of Thailand. He's the the
01:27:36.320 --> 01:27:39.669
Burmese equivalent of the SA Raja is the
01:27:39.679 --> 01:27:41.590
SA Mahanayakasi
01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:44.310
the great leader of the SA and he
01:27:44.320 --> 01:27:47.270
handled money and he would praise the
01:27:47.280 --> 01:27:51.030
hand the donating of money to monks
01:27:51.040 --> 01:27:53.189
to to lay people when you give damatox
01:27:53.199 --> 01:27:54.870
you know he'd encourage them to donate
01:27:54.880 --> 01:27:56.870
money to monks
01:27:56.880 --> 01:27:59.910
and he was like the leader of the SA in
01:27:59.920 --> 01:28:02.790
Burma anyway I mean technically I mean
01:28:02.800 --> 01:28:04.470
he's he's pretty much just kind of a
01:28:04.480 --> 01:28:06.550
bureaucrat that
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:08.229
probably most Burmese Buddhists wouldn't
01:28:08.239 --> 01:28:11.910
even know who he was. But still, and
01:28:11.920 --> 01:28:13.430
that's kind of the way it goes. It's
01:28:13.440 --> 01:28:17.430
just corruption in religion is largely a
01:28:17.440 --> 01:28:19.430
matter of human nature. Largely a matter
01:28:19.440 --> 01:28:23.350
of just cultural drift. The the system
01:28:23.360 --> 01:28:25.350
adapts to the culture and to human
01:28:25.360 --> 01:28:27.990
nature more than human nature is going
01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:33.750
to adapt to this very exalted ideal.
01:28:33.760 --> 01:28:35.510
So, you've got two kinds of religion.
01:28:35.520 --> 01:28:37.830
You've got really wise, exalted
01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:39.990
religions that inevitably get corrupted
01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:41.910
because most of their followers aren't
01:28:41.920 --> 01:28:45.110
wise people. Or you've got just
01:28:45.120 --> 01:28:46.790
religions that are kind of foolish and
01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.510
easy to follow right off the bat so that
01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:51.350
the followers don't need to corrupt it
01:28:51.360 --> 01:28:53.750
because it's already foolish and easy to
01:28:53.760 --> 01:28:58.149
follow. And I won't name any names.
01:28:58.159 --> 01:28:59.270
And I'm just going to move on. Next
01:28:59.280 --> 01:29:00.950
question. This is from Ethiopian fake
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:02.709
TIG.
01:29:02.719 --> 01:29:07.910
An Ethiopian fake TIG says around Q&A 22
01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:10.070
or something. I'm glad that people are
01:29:10.080 --> 01:29:12.790
still watching those old ones,
01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:15.350
but I just interrupted myself. Ethiopian
01:29:15.360 --> 01:29:18.629
fake TIG says around Q&A 22 or something
01:29:18.639 --> 01:29:20.790
you spoke about what it would be like to
01:29:20.800 --> 01:29:25.030
attain first Janna and how it's like the
01:29:25.040 --> 01:29:28.470
muscles in the next spasming
01:29:28.480 --> 01:29:31.189
since one is in a state of focus and
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:34.870
such. Can you perhaps speak on the three
01:29:34.880 --> 01:29:37.430
other Jas in detail? Well, I really
01:29:37.440 --> 01:29:39.910
don't think that I said that you're
01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:42.310
spasming when you get first Janna. I
01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:45.189
think what he's referring to is I mean I
01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:46.629
mean I don't have much use for the whole
01:29:46.639 --> 01:29:49.590
four Janna system because I think it has
01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:52.629
been corrupted over time. Another sign
01:29:52.639 --> 01:29:55.030
of corruption is the interpretation of
01:29:55.040 --> 01:29:57.830
the four Jas. I used personally I think
01:29:57.840 --> 01:30:00.390
originally the four genres were just the
01:30:00.400 --> 01:30:03.270
four stages of meditation. So that first
01:30:03.280 --> 01:30:06.390
Janna when you're still thinking I mean
01:30:06.400 --> 01:30:08.950
it's like beginning elementary
01:30:08.960 --> 01:30:11.030
meditation if you're doing it correctly
01:30:11.040 --> 01:30:14.229
that would qualify as first Janna but
01:30:14.239 --> 01:30:17.430
somewhere along the lines due to monks
01:30:17.440 --> 01:30:20.070
not understanding Janna very well maybe
01:30:20.080 --> 01:30:21.990
because they were more interested in
01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:23.990
formulating philosophies and actually
01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:25.750
meditating
01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:27.590
they haven't worked out that all four
01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:29.430
Jas even first Janna where you're still
01:30:29.440 --> 01:30:32.229
thinking are superhuman mental states
01:30:32.239 --> 01:30:34.950
Udri manusa dama
01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:38.070
superhum mental states. So in the
01:30:38.080 --> 01:30:40.629
mahasadi batanosa when it says that
01:30:40.639 --> 01:30:44.229
right concentration is the four jas it's
01:30:44.239 --> 01:30:45.669
it's now worked out that right
01:30:45.679 --> 01:30:47.430
concentration is a superhuman mental
01:30:47.440 --> 01:30:51.189
state which is it seems kind of
01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:55.350
implausible to me.
01:30:55.360 --> 01:30:58.709
Anyways, what I was saying
01:30:58.719 --> 01:31:00.550
um I mean I don't remember exactly what
01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:03.270
I said in Q&A 22
01:31:03.280 --> 01:31:05.590
but
01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:08.390
um there is something called pi or I
01:31:08.400 --> 01:31:11.189
think in in Hinduism it's called shakti
01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:13.990
where sometimes if you're getting into
01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:15.590
you're breaking new ground in your
01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:17.350
meditation you're getting into a deeper
01:31:17.360 --> 01:31:19.750
level of meditation than you're used to.
01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:21.750
your whole body can just start twitching
01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:23.990
because it's like you're in this subtler
01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:26.310
state that requires less mental energy
01:31:26.320 --> 01:31:29.510
maybe so that you've got this excess
01:31:29.520 --> 01:31:31.910
mental energy that has to like expend
01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:34.070
itself somehow and so it just expends
01:31:34.080 --> 01:31:36.310
itself in just like twi twitching and
01:31:36.320 --> 01:31:38.470
jerking of your muscles that has
01:31:38.480 --> 01:31:41.669
happened to me a few times
01:31:41.679 --> 01:31:46.149
um there's a story of Ram Das when he he
01:31:46.159 --> 01:31:49.189
gets to visit his guru Maharaji in the
01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:50.709
evening ing when everyone else is gone,
01:31:50.719 --> 01:31:52.550
which was a rare occasion. You know,
01:31:52.560 --> 01:31:54.310
Maharaji would just stay by himself,
01:31:54.320 --> 01:31:56.070
maybe like an attendant or something
01:31:56.080 --> 01:32:00.470
there, but Ram Das got to visit him. And
01:32:00.480 --> 01:32:03.110
Maharaji was apparently pretending to be
01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:07.910
asleep. And so Ram Das started like
01:32:07.920 --> 01:32:09.270
meditating just cuz he wanted to
01:32:09.280 --> 01:32:12.550
meditate in Maharaji's presence. And it
01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:14.390
was like almost immediately he got into
01:32:14.400 --> 01:32:16.229
this really deep state where he is just
01:32:16.239 --> 01:32:18.310
like his teeth are chattering and he's
01:32:18.320 --> 01:32:19.750
just like twitching and jerking all over
01:32:19.760 --> 01:32:22.149
the place. And then Maharaji would just
01:32:22.159 --> 01:32:24.070
kind of open his eyes and and ask him
01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:25.830
some mundane question, you know, how
01:32:25.840 --> 01:32:28.149
much does your friend so and so make,
01:32:28.159 --> 01:32:29.750
you know, to kind of bring him back down
01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:33.910
because he just wasn't ready for it yet.
01:32:33.920 --> 01:32:35.669
So that's that's essentially what I was
01:32:35.679 --> 01:32:39.910
talking about was this PT or or shockti
01:32:39.920 --> 01:32:41.910
or you know whatever you want to call it
01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:43.750
that when you get into a a deeper
01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.629
meditative state than you're used to
01:32:46.639 --> 01:32:48.950
then your muscles can start to twitch
01:32:48.960 --> 01:32:52.070
that kind of thing and it's I mean it's
01:32:52.080 --> 01:32:53.750
not indicative of first Janna
01:32:53.760 --> 01:32:56.310
necessarily
01:32:56.320 --> 01:32:58.550
so let's see here can you perhaps speak
01:32:58.560 --> 01:33:02.229
on the three other Jas in detail well
01:33:02.239 --> 01:33:05.030
the other all four Janna you know it's
01:33:05.040 --> 01:33:06.790
if you want to know what the Janna are
01:33:06.800 --> 01:33:08.550
you look in the sutas and you will find
01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:11.189
that almost every time the Janna's are
01:33:11.199 --> 01:33:14.950
mentioned or described in the sutas it's
01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:19.430
the exact same block of of words you
01:33:19.440 --> 01:33:22.229
know it's just this stereotyped
01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:25.030
block of words that's just inserted into
01:33:25.040 --> 01:33:27.910
sutas when the the genres are to be
01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:31.110
described and unfortunately it's not a
01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:33.830
good enough description that the meaning
01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:38.950
of Janna is uncontroversial.
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:43.110
So I mean the first Janna you're still
01:33:43.120 --> 01:33:46.470
thinking you know it's you're still
01:33:46.480 --> 01:33:48.629
capable of thought and you're still
01:33:48.639 --> 01:33:50.149
feeling
01:33:50.159 --> 01:33:54.070
physical and mental pleasure and pain.
01:33:54.080 --> 01:33:57.350
Then in the second Janna, you stop
01:33:57.360 --> 01:33:59.750
thinking. You're still feeling mental
01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:02.390
and physical pleasure and pain, but
01:34:02.400 --> 01:34:06.149
you're no longer thinking in like uh
01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:08.070
your words are no longer your thoughts
01:34:08.080 --> 01:34:10.629
are no longer hooking up in in sequence.
01:34:10.639 --> 01:34:12.790
You know, a thought may just flash into
01:34:12.800 --> 01:34:14.790
your mind, but then it just disappears
01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:19.910
again and you're not thinking.
01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:23.270
So third Janna
01:34:23.280 --> 01:34:25.430
is, if I remember correctly, hope I
01:34:25.440 --> 01:34:27.669
don't embarrass myself here. You're not
01:34:27.679 --> 01:34:29.750
thinking. You got rid of that when you
01:34:29.760 --> 01:34:31.590
got into second Janna. And you're no
01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:35.350
longer feeling mental pleasure and pain.
01:34:35.360 --> 01:34:37.189
You still feel physical pleasure and
01:34:37.199 --> 01:34:40.229
pain. So it's like your your mindfulness
01:34:40.239 --> 01:34:43.910
is getting deeper. So that your mind is
01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:46.950
no longer feeling like happiness and
01:34:46.960 --> 01:34:48.550
unhappiness even though your body is
01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:50.149
still capable of feeling pleasure and
01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:52.310
pain still not thinking. Then when you
01:34:52.320 --> 01:34:54.550
get into fourth Janna which according to
01:34:54.560 --> 01:34:57.350
the original four stages you know the
01:34:57.360 --> 01:34:59.910
four the original description of the jas
01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:03.510
in plural then that's supposedly the
01:35:03.520 --> 01:35:05.910
highest meditative state you can get to.
01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:07.430
I mean, originally it's probably the way
01:35:07.440 --> 01:35:09.910
it was. In which case, you're no longer
01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:13.750
thinking. Your mindfulness is purified
01:35:13.760 --> 01:35:16.310
and you're no longer experiencing mental
01:35:16.320 --> 01:35:19.030
or physical pleasure and pain. It's just
01:35:19.040 --> 01:35:25.030
a state of perfected equinimity.
01:35:25.040 --> 01:35:26.950
And I mean, there are some people that
01:35:26.960 --> 01:35:29.830
consider proof of fourth of Jonah to be
01:35:29.840 --> 01:35:31.750
I mean, you almost stop breathing and
01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:33.830
your heart rate slows down like that of
01:35:33.840 --> 01:35:36.950
a hibernating squirrel. And Shoko
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:40.709
Asahara of Japan was actually using like
01:35:40.719 --> 01:35:44.470
air chambers to measure the the breath
01:35:44.480 --> 01:35:47.270
rate of people and showing that they
01:35:47.280 --> 01:35:49.189
were in this state where their head
01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:50.870
almost stopped breathing. They required
01:35:50.880 --> 01:35:53.189
almost no oxygen and using that as proof
01:35:53.199 --> 01:35:55.030
that his system was producing forth
01:35:55.040 --> 01:35:58.149
Janna. But to me it sounds more like a
01:35:58.159 --> 01:36:01.750
deep hypnotic trance. And my father's
01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:04.870
second wife, not my mother, was capable
01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:07.750
of going into extremely deep hypnotic
01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:10.709
trances despite the fact that she was an
01:36:10.719 --> 01:36:13.590
alcoholic and not moral at all. So it
01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:16.629
wasn't really Janna probably,
01:36:16.639 --> 01:36:19.510
but she was I mean she would go into
01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:22.390
very deep hypnotic states where her
01:36:22.400 --> 01:36:24.149
breath and her her heart rate would
01:36:24.159 --> 01:36:28.070
become almost invisible.
01:36:28.080 --> 01:36:30.870
I mean, almost no detectable pulse or or
01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:33.910
breath rate. So, I'm guessing that some
01:36:33.920 --> 01:36:36.629
of this I mean, I've been saying for
01:36:36.639 --> 01:36:39.189
years that a lot of what is considered
01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:41.590
to be Janna is really like a deep
01:36:41.600 --> 01:36:43.750
hypnotic trance that probably isn't
01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:48.550
genuine samaati.
01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:50.629
But just going with the standard the
01:36:50.639 --> 01:36:52.870
standard for Janna theory for Janna
01:36:52.880 --> 01:36:55.669
system. First Janna, you're still
01:36:55.679 --> 01:36:57.830
thinking. Still feeling mental and
01:36:57.840 --> 01:36:59.830
physical pleasure and pain. Second
01:36:59.840 --> 01:37:03.109
Janna, not thinking anymore. Still
01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:04.790
feeling mental and physical pleasure and
01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:07.189
pain. Third Janna, your mindfulness is
01:37:07.199 --> 01:37:09.510
getting deeper.
01:37:09.520 --> 01:37:12.470
Not thinking, not feeling mental
01:37:12.480 --> 01:37:14.390
pleasure and pain, but still feeling
01:37:14.400 --> 01:37:17.030
physical pleasure and pain or still cap
01:37:17.040 --> 01:37:18.790
capable of feeling it. And finally,
01:37:18.800 --> 01:37:22.950
fourth Janna is just like
01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:26.470
vast expanse of voidness,
01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:28.149
but you're in a higher state of
01:37:28.159 --> 01:37:29.910
consciousness. You're more awake. Your
01:37:29.920 --> 01:37:33.189
mindfulness is purified.
01:37:33.199 --> 01:37:36.629
It's just like super consciousness,
01:37:36.639 --> 01:37:38.870
which again makes it seem unlikely that
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:41.109
you would become completely oblivious to
01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:42.870
your to your surroundings like a
01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:47.910
hibernating squirrel.
01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:50.070
Although some of those Hindu swamies
01:37:50.080 --> 01:37:51.990
they can appear to be completely
01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:54.229
oblivious like maybe a hibernating
01:37:54.239 --> 01:37:55.750
squirrel but then after they come out of
01:37:55.760 --> 01:37:57.590
it they can repeat conversations that
01:37:57.600 --> 01:38:00.310
were going on in their presence by the
01:38:00.320 --> 01:38:02.629
scientists that were examining their
01:38:02.639 --> 01:38:04.629
brain waves or something while they were
01:38:04.639 --> 01:38:08.149
in that state. So it may seem like
01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:09.590
you're oblivious to your surroundings
01:38:09.600 --> 01:38:10.950
like a hibernating squirrel, but that's
01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:13.910
not necessarily the case. if in fact you
01:38:13.920 --> 01:38:17.189
were not oblivious.
01:38:17.199 --> 01:38:18.390
And I'm just going to move on to
01:38:18.400 --> 01:38:22.149
Ethiopian fake Tig's next question.
01:38:22.159 --> 01:38:24.790
He says, "You once said in Janism their
01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:26.870
fully enlightened beings know everything
01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:29.270
all the time and their enlightenment is
01:38:29.280 --> 01:38:31.350
different. Can you speak a little about
01:38:31.360 --> 01:38:33.270
other forms of enlightenment and their
01:38:33.280 --> 01:38:35.990
powers in other religions?"
01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:37.750
Well,
01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:40.870
golly. I mean I haven't really studied
01:38:40.880 --> 01:38:43.590
this in detail in various religions. I
01:38:43.600 --> 01:38:46.870
mean the kind of ironically the
01:38:46.880 --> 01:38:48.310
definition of enlightenment that I
01:38:48.320 --> 01:38:50.550
understand the best would be in Buddhism
01:38:50.560 --> 01:38:54.629
and Roman Catholicism which and before I
01:38:54.639 --> 01:38:55.990
read St. John of the Cross, I was
01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:58.470
oblivious to the idea that in Roman
01:38:58.480 --> 01:39:01.590
Catholicism there even is like the stage
01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:04.470
of perfection because of course in in
01:39:04.480 --> 01:39:06.550
Christianity it's like nobody is worthy.
01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:08.550
Everyone is imperfect. You know, you
01:39:08.560 --> 01:39:10.070
only get into heaven through the grace
01:39:10.080 --> 01:39:13.350
of God. And here's St. John of the Cross
01:39:13.360 --> 01:39:15.270
saying that you can become perfect in
01:39:15.280 --> 01:39:18.709
this very life.
01:39:18.719 --> 01:39:20.790
Well, with regard to Janism, I mean,
01:39:20.800 --> 01:39:24.070
I've never really studied up uh like a
01:39:24.080 --> 01:39:27.189
Jane text describing what it's like to
01:39:27.199 --> 01:39:29.189
be fully enlightened Jane. Although
01:39:29.199 --> 01:39:31.669
Mahaviraa and other Tankeras who are
01:39:31.679 --> 01:39:33.510
sort of like the the Jane equivalent to
01:39:33.520 --> 01:39:36.870
Buddhas. Um they supposedly were fully
01:39:36.880 --> 01:39:39.109
omnisient all the time as opposed to the
01:39:39.119 --> 01:39:41.510
Buddha who is selectively omnisient. He
01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:43.270
could know anything he wanted to know,
01:39:43.280 --> 01:39:45.750
but he wasn't experiencing infinite
01:39:45.760 --> 01:39:49.270
knowledge at all times,
01:39:49.280 --> 01:39:51.109
at least not infinite objective
01:39:51.119 --> 01:39:54.629
knowledge.
01:39:54.639 --> 01:39:56.709
So, and and that was kind of mocked in
01:39:56.719 --> 01:39:59.350
the in the Buddhist texts with regard to
01:39:59.360 --> 01:40:03.270
Hindu like Hindu enlightenment.
01:40:03.280 --> 01:40:04.870
That's a tough one. I mean I know a
01:40:04.880 --> 01:40:06.870
little bit about Nim Crowley Baba
01:40:06.880 --> 01:40:09.590
Maharaji up there. You know how Ramdas
01:40:09.600 --> 01:40:10.870
would say that the better you got to
01:40:10.880 --> 01:40:12.070
know him the more you realized there
01:40:12.080 --> 01:40:14.070
really was nobody there. That he was
01:40:14.080 --> 01:40:15.830
just like a mirror reflecting your own
01:40:15.840 --> 01:40:18.550
karma back at you. And he did not act
01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:20.390
like the stereotypical saint. He didn't
01:40:20.400 --> 01:40:22.629
even act like fellow Hindu Raman
01:40:22.639 --> 01:40:26.229
Maharshi. He was he was like a rascal.
01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:28.310
He'd be hitting people and throwing
01:40:28.320 --> 01:40:31.430
fruit at them and cracking jokes,
01:40:31.440 --> 01:40:34.390
that kind of stuff.
01:40:34.400 --> 01:40:36.470
But with regard to St. John of the Cross
01:40:36.480 --> 01:40:39.189
and Roman Catholicism, I mean he says
01:40:39.199 --> 01:40:43.270
that uh I mean when you master high
01:40:43.280 --> 01:40:46.229
contemplation which would be the the
01:40:46.239 --> 01:40:48.390
higher Jas. You're no longer thinking
01:40:48.400 --> 01:40:50.149
when you're practicing Catholic
01:40:50.159 --> 01:40:52.550
contemplation. Meditation is when you're
01:40:52.560 --> 01:40:53.830
still thinking. That would be like first
01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:56.470
genre. And then I mean that's is sort of
01:40:56.480 --> 01:40:59.430
like repeating the Lord's Prayer or you
01:40:59.440 --> 01:41:01.750
know visualizing scenes from the life of
01:41:01.760 --> 01:41:04.310
Christ. that kind of thing in in
01:41:04.320 --> 01:41:06.629
Christianity. But when you get into
01:41:06.639 --> 01:41:09.030
contemplation, just any thought that
01:41:09.040 --> 01:41:12.790
arises, you dismiss it until you mortify
01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:15.830
your own self-will. So that you no
01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:18.870
longer have self-will, which is kind of
01:41:18.880 --> 01:41:20.950
interesting considering that a Buddhist
01:41:20.960 --> 01:41:24.070
arant also supposedly no longer has
01:41:24.080 --> 01:41:26.870
self-will because will is volition,
01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:30.470
volition is karma, and an arhand is not
01:41:30.480 --> 01:41:32.229
creating any karma. So he's not creating
01:41:32.239 --> 01:41:35.270
any real volition.
01:41:35.280 --> 01:41:38.709
So the Catholic Araant and the Terravada
01:41:38.719 --> 01:41:41.830
Buddhist Aroahant both of them have just
01:41:41.840 --> 01:41:44.870
stopped generating volitions.
01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:46.629
But from St. John of the Cross's point
01:41:46.639 --> 01:41:48.629
of view, you know, his Christian
01:41:48.639 --> 01:41:50.870
explanation is that because you no
01:41:50.880 --> 01:41:53.990
longer have any self-will, you are
01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:57.030
purely motivated by the will of God.
01:41:57.040 --> 01:42:00.149
You're just like this puppet of God. And
01:42:00.159 --> 01:42:03.270
that is being God through participation
01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:05.189
according to him. And what he says is
01:42:05.199 --> 01:42:07.030
authoritative in Roman Catholicism. He
01:42:07.040 --> 01:42:10.070
is the mystical doctor of the Catholic
01:42:10.080 --> 01:42:12.070
Church. Whatever he says about mysticism
01:42:12.080 --> 01:42:14.870
is official dogma in the Roman Catholic
01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:16.470
Church.
01:42:16.480 --> 01:42:18.790
So according to the Roman Catholic
01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:20.310
Church, even though they don't advertise
01:42:20.320 --> 01:42:22.629
it, you can become God through
01:42:22.639 --> 01:42:25.750
participation just like like this divine
01:42:25.760 --> 01:42:28.229
puppet of God through mortifying your
01:42:28.239 --> 01:42:29.830
own will.
01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:31.669
In Buddhism, it's harder to explain
01:42:31.679 --> 01:42:33.830
because there is no God. There is no
01:42:33.840 --> 01:42:37.270
will of God for an arhant to be a puppet
01:42:37.280 --> 01:42:40.629
of. And so in
01:42:40.639 --> 01:42:43.270
in Abidama, they have to invent some new
01:42:43.280 --> 01:42:45.510
kind of like pseudo volition called
01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:48.470
Kirya, functional consciousness that
01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:51.750
will allow an arhand to appear to have
01:42:51.760 --> 01:42:53.830
volitions even though he's not
01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:57.030
generating any karma.
01:42:57.040 --> 01:42:58.870
But most religious systems don't even
01:42:58.880 --> 01:43:01.830
have a form of enlightenment in even in
01:43:01.840 --> 01:43:05.270
theory. I mean they might have the few
01:43:05.280 --> 01:43:08.229
outlying enlightened
01:43:08.239 --> 01:43:10.229
advocates or followers of that religion
01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:12.550
who just become enlightened in spite of
01:43:12.560 --> 01:43:16.470
the system as much as because of it.
01:43:16.480 --> 01:43:18.310
Um like an enlightened Sufi. I don't
01:43:18.320 --> 01:43:19.590
know what their definition of
01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:21.430
enlightenment would be like. just like
01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:24.229
Quranic Islam apparently doesn't have a
01:43:24.239 --> 01:43:26.709
concept of enlightenment
01:43:26.719 --> 01:43:29.669
um in according to the Bible. I mean the
01:43:29.679 --> 01:43:31.430
Bible really doesn't I mean the closest
01:43:31.440 --> 01:43:33.510
being to enlightenment in the in the
01:43:33.520 --> 01:43:35.350
Christian Bible of course would be Jesus
01:43:35.360 --> 01:43:37.830
but he's still I mean he never laughs
01:43:37.840 --> 01:43:41.510
but he cries he gets upset sometimes
01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:42.870
you how long am I going to have to deal
01:43:42.880 --> 01:43:45.830
with you people this kind of stuff.
01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:47.510
So I mean from the Buddhist point of
01:43:47.520 --> 01:43:49.350
view he's not really behaving like a
01:43:49.360 --> 01:43:52.390
fully enlightened being
01:43:52.400 --> 01:43:54.709
you know dear you god please take this
01:43:54.719 --> 01:43:56.390
cup from my hands you know he was he'd
01:43:56.400 --> 01:44:00.470
get depressed and upset sometimes.
01:44:00.480 --> 01:44:02.550
So
01:44:02.560 --> 01:44:05.750
gosh even Mahayana Buddhism their
01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:07.510
concepts of enlightenment I'm I'm sure
01:44:07.520 --> 01:44:09.350
they're all over the map just depending
01:44:09.360 --> 01:44:13.350
on the school of Mahayana Buddhism.
01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:17.350
But it is interesting to me that two two
01:44:17.360 --> 01:44:18.790
systems that are so different from each
01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:21.590
other. Terravada Buddhism in India and
01:44:21.600 --> 01:44:24.950
Roman Catholic Christianity in 16th
01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:27.109
century Spain.
01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:29.350
Both apparently independently through
01:44:29.360 --> 01:44:30.629
different angles, different
01:44:30.639 --> 01:44:33.990
interpretations had come up to a very
01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:35.990
similar understanding of what
01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:39.430
enlightenment is like which may mean
01:44:39.440 --> 01:44:42.229
that it's based on personal experience
01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:45.189
of people in terab Buddhism and people
01:44:45.199 --> 01:44:47.750
in Roman Catholicism
01:44:47.760 --> 01:44:49.830
um just kind of through going through a
01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:53.669
cultural filter.
01:44:53.679 --> 01:44:55.030
But I guess I should just move on to
01:44:55.040 --> 01:44:57.350
another move on to the next question.
01:44:57.360 --> 01:44:59.830
Move on to Ethiopian fake Tig's third
01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:01.590
question.
01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:04.550
He says, "I saw a video of you as a biku
01:45:04.560 --> 01:45:07.270
talking about the tree that smells. Do
01:45:07.280 --> 01:45:09.430
you perhaps have more videos like that
01:45:09.440 --> 01:45:11.990
since the video, weirdly enough, created
01:45:12.000 --> 01:45:16.070
a very calm and serene emotion for me?"
01:45:16.080 --> 01:45:19.669
It could be the way you took each
01:45:19.679 --> 01:45:21.830
material carefully and meticulously and
01:45:21.840 --> 01:45:23.990
how calm you were or the message you
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:26.470
were sending. But if there are more
01:45:26.480 --> 01:45:29.270
vids, would you post them? Yeah. This
01:45:29.280 --> 01:45:31.430
the the sermon on the stinkwood tree.
01:45:31.440 --> 01:45:35.270
There was um a a guy I met, an American
01:45:35.280 --> 01:45:38.229
man, came to visit me in January of 2011
01:45:38.239 --> 01:45:39.750
when I was still living at Onebo
01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:41.830
Wildlife Refuge Monastery. And he kind
01:45:41.840 --> 01:45:44.790
of followed me going for alms round a
01:45:44.800 --> 01:45:49.590
few times. And uh I would take my bowl
01:45:49.600 --> 01:45:51.910
out of the bag and put it back into the
01:45:51.920 --> 01:45:53.590
bag on the outskirts of the village
01:45:53.600 --> 01:45:57.350
under this tree that I was told. I mean,
01:45:57.360 --> 01:45:58.950
it's it's called like the stinkwood tree
01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:02.229
or the rotten wood tree where it's a and
01:46:02.239 --> 01:46:05.510
when it was one of the only big trees in
01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:06.709
the area. I mean, the rest of them have
01:46:06.719 --> 01:46:09.990
been chopped down, but the wood stinks.
01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:12.390
You can't use it for lumber because the
01:46:12.400 --> 01:46:14.790
lumber stinks. Even if you burn it as
01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:18.390
firewood, the the the smoke stinks. you
01:46:18.400 --> 01:46:20.149
and they say that you can't even use it
01:46:20.159 --> 01:46:23.669
to like bake bricks because somehow the
01:46:23.679 --> 01:46:25.910
the stink or something permeates the
01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:27.830
brick or something. So it was just like
01:46:27.840 --> 01:46:29.830
this useless tree and because it was
01:46:29.840 --> 01:46:31.830
useless it got to grow into this
01:46:31.840 --> 01:46:35.910
patriarch of a tree and it reminds me of
01:46:35.920 --> 01:46:41.189
the no what is it the Jews is the
01:46:41.199 --> 01:46:43.430
Chinese dowist text the second most
01:46:43.440 --> 01:46:46.870
famous dowist text where similarly
01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:48.790
there's this huge tree that nobody
01:46:48.800 --> 01:46:51.189
bothers to chop down because it's just
01:46:51.199 --> 01:46:54.470
totally worthless and so in the in theu
01:46:54.480 --> 01:46:57.510
or however the hell you pronounce that
01:46:57.520 --> 01:47:00.950
it's it's it's like the sage is just so
01:47:00.960 --> 01:47:02.870
unobtrusive. Nobody pays any attention
01:47:02.880 --> 01:47:05.430
to him and so he can live in his life in
01:47:05.440 --> 01:47:07.910
peace and reach the full fruition of his
01:47:07.920 --> 01:47:09.910
potential. You know, you don't want to
01:47:09.920 --> 01:47:13.350
be useful to normies because then
01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:14.629
they're going to be pestering you all. I
01:47:14.639 --> 01:47:16.149
mean, look at Jesus. He could heal the
01:47:16.159 --> 01:47:18.390
sick. There's like people just pestering
01:47:18.400 --> 01:47:24.149
him to heal their grandma of arumatism.
01:47:24.159 --> 01:47:25.830
Anyways, getting back to the question
01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:27.590
though,
01:47:27.600 --> 01:47:30.390
yeah, I mean, just it's it's all already
01:47:30.400 --> 01:47:32.470
posted. All of those old videos of me
01:47:32.480 --> 01:47:34.790
being a monk have already been uploaded
01:47:34.800 --> 01:47:38.310
onto YouTube. So, just go to my videos
01:47:38.320 --> 01:47:40.229
and just go to the oldest ones. It may
01:47:40.239 --> 01:47:43.430
be that you can even like click on
01:47:43.440 --> 01:47:47.030
oldest first and all of my old monk
01:47:47.040 --> 01:47:49.270
videos when I'm still in Burma should
01:47:49.280 --> 01:47:51.669
come up. You know, even like you go to
01:47:51.679 --> 01:47:55.030
my channel and um you know, the the
01:47:55.040 --> 01:47:57.430
highlighted video is me going for alms
01:47:57.440 --> 01:48:01.750
round in uh what was it? Lay village.
01:48:01.760 --> 01:48:05.030
So there are I don't remember how many
01:48:05.040 --> 01:48:07.669
videos. Not very many. It's in single
01:48:07.679 --> 01:48:10.310
digits, but still there all of the old
01:48:10.320 --> 01:48:13.030
videos of me being a monk still in in
01:48:13.040 --> 01:48:16.790
Burma are already up on YouTube. So just
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:19.669
go to the oldest ones on my channel, you
01:48:19.679 --> 01:48:21.990
know, just go to videos and maybe you
01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:24.550
have a filter of oldest first maybe and
01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:25.910
they should be right up at the top of
01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:29.590
the list.
01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:31.750
And so I'm just going to move on to next
01:48:31.760 --> 01:48:34.550
question. This is from Cole and Cole
01:48:34.560 --> 01:48:36.790
says,
01:48:36.800 --> 01:48:39.030
"What do you know about the polycanon
01:48:39.040 --> 01:48:41.750
teachings that pertain to the johnic
01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:43.910
attainments and their correlated rebirth
01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:46.229
in the various da realms?" Well, the
01:48:46.239 --> 01:48:49.270
Jonic attainments. Um, I mean, I kind of
01:48:49.280 --> 01:48:51.109
already went over the four Jas to a
01:48:51.119 --> 01:48:53.990
previous question, so I won't rehash
01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:55.669
that.
01:48:55.679 --> 01:48:58.950
I mean, technically, according to the
01:48:58.960 --> 01:49:01.189
poly text, you don't get superhuman
01:49:01.199 --> 01:49:04.629
mental states like psychic powers
01:49:04.639 --> 01:49:06.870
without Janna. that I mean you can
01:49:06.880 --> 01:49:08.470
become enlightened without Jon and
01:49:08.480 --> 01:49:11.109
become a so-called dry visioned arant
01:49:11.119 --> 01:49:13.270
who just becomes enlightened through
01:49:13.280 --> 01:49:17.430
like weasa insight mindfulness but if
01:49:17.440 --> 01:49:19.430
you want to be able to read minds and
01:49:19.440 --> 01:49:21.430
know your past lives and all that you
01:49:21.440 --> 01:49:24.070
have to get into the higher Jas would be
01:49:24.080 --> 01:49:26.870
johnic attainments I suppose but I guess
01:49:26.880 --> 01:49:28.870
what Cole is mainly asking about is the
01:49:28.880 --> 01:49:31.669
correlated rebirth in the various dava
01:49:31.679 --> 01:49:35.830
realms so I mean I didn't didn't do my
01:49:35.840 --> 01:49:37.590
research. It's I've never really
01:49:37.600 --> 01:49:39.990
believed this stuff very much. You know,
01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:43.109
it's it's in the texts,
01:49:43.119 --> 01:49:46.070
but I mean, I never really took such an
01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:48.629
intense interest in it as to bother to
01:49:48.639 --> 01:49:50.629
memorize it.
01:49:50.639 --> 01:49:53.270
But in the 31 plains of existence,
01:49:53.280 --> 01:49:55.350
you've got
01:49:55.360 --> 01:50:00.070
four four levels of Brahma realms
01:50:00.080 --> 01:50:03.830
corresponding to the four Janna. And I
01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:06.310
think there are like three levels in
01:50:06.320 --> 01:50:09.350
each of for each Janna. So there's three
01:50:09.360 --> 01:50:11.189
Brahma realms corresponding to each
01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:13.590
Janna. One is when you just are getting
01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:15.830
into it, getting into the Janna but
01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:17.270
haven't mastered it. One is when you're
01:50:17.280 --> 01:50:19.669
like have intermediate mastery and one
01:50:19.679 --> 01:50:23.430
is when you've fully mastered it. And I
01:50:23.440 --> 01:50:28.149
think Maha Brahma is his Maha Brahma and
01:50:28.159 --> 01:50:30.709
his entire retinue are still only at the
01:50:30.719 --> 01:50:32.390
level of first Janna if I remember
01:50:32.400 --> 01:50:33.750
correctly. I mean, don't quote me on
01:50:33.760 --> 01:50:35.990
that. I could be wrong. There's like the
01:50:36.000 --> 01:50:38.470
retinue of Brahma and then there's like
01:50:38.480 --> 01:50:41.030
the counselors of Brahma and then
01:50:41.040 --> 01:50:43.590
there's Maha Brahma himself. All of that
01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:45.590
would be like the three three Brahma
01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:48.550
realms corresponding to first Janna. And
01:50:48.560 --> 01:50:50.550
a lot of this strikes me as just
01:50:50.560 --> 01:50:53.430
religious propaganda cooked up by the
01:50:53.440 --> 01:50:56.950
Buddhists. I mean, I'm one of the few
01:50:56.960 --> 01:50:58.950
Buddhists or anyone who's been a monk
01:50:58.960 --> 01:51:00.950
who can actually talk like this because
01:51:00.960 --> 01:51:03.350
of course, if you're still a monk and
01:51:03.360 --> 01:51:04.790
you're kind of a missionary, you don't
01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:07.109
want to be pointing out, you know, sort
01:51:07.119 --> 01:51:11.030
of naughty bits in Buddhism, but for
01:51:11.040 --> 01:51:12.950
some perverse reason, I've never really
01:51:12.960 --> 01:51:16.629
hesitated all that much. But you've got
01:51:16.639 --> 01:51:19.669
Brahma, Mahab Brahma, who literally is
01:51:19.679 --> 01:51:22.070
like the personification of ultimate
01:51:22.080 --> 01:51:26.149
reality for Vadic Hindus
01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:28.709
who from the Buddhist point of view, I
01:51:28.719 --> 01:51:30.870
mean, he corresponds to just like this
01:51:30.880 --> 01:51:34.070
mediocre level of heaven, you know, he's
01:51:34.080 --> 01:51:35.830
like one of the he's on one of the
01:51:35.840 --> 01:51:39.430
lowest Brahma realms with bunches of
01:51:39.440 --> 01:51:42.229
other heaven realms higher than him. So
01:51:42.239 --> 01:51:44.550
it's like the Buddhists are saying look
01:51:44.560 --> 01:51:48.790
at this these these brahinss are
01:51:48.800 --> 01:51:51.669
claiming Brahma is the highest when we
01:51:51.679 --> 01:51:54.629
Buddhists have got into such higher
01:51:54.639 --> 01:51:57.270
mental states higher meditative states
01:51:57.280 --> 01:51:59.430
that we can get into these realms way
01:51:59.440 --> 01:52:01.750
above Maha Brahma even though Maha
01:52:01.760 --> 01:52:04.149
Brahma is literally the personification
01:52:04.159 --> 01:52:06.709
of ultimate reality.
01:52:06.719 --> 01:52:08.950
So a lot of this stuff I mean it's like
01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:10.629
propaganda. I mean, you shouldn't take
01:52:10.639 --> 01:52:13.510
it too seriously necessarily. If you're
01:52:13.520 --> 01:52:15.750
just faith oriented, you want to believe
01:52:15.760 --> 01:52:19.109
it all like a medieval Roman Catholic in
01:52:19.119 --> 01:52:23.270
Europe or a modern Burmese villager.
01:52:23.280 --> 01:52:24.870
You just want to believe all of it. It's
01:52:24.880 --> 01:52:28.709
all gospel truth, then I mean, I might
01:52:28.719 --> 01:52:30.550
not be the the best person for you to be
01:52:30.560 --> 01:52:33.990
watching on YouTube for starters.
01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:36.950
Um I mean just having this stainless
01:52:36.960 --> 01:52:38.870
steel faith and believing all of it I
01:52:38.880 --> 01:52:41.830
mean it can serve some people you know
01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:43.910
it's like all those medieval Catholic
01:52:43.920 --> 01:52:47.109
saints all those Burmese sages a lot of
01:52:47.119 --> 01:52:50.149
the the earlier Thai ones
01:52:50.159 --> 01:52:52.310
I mean they did it just through this
01:52:52.320 --> 01:52:56.470
unquestioning faith which inspired them
01:52:56.480 --> 01:52:58.470
you know when you can't have any doubt
01:52:58.480 --> 01:53:01.189
at all that it's all true then you're
01:53:01.199 --> 01:53:05.910
less lukewarm about it
01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:07.430
But getting back to Cole's first
01:53:07.440 --> 01:53:09.510
question here.
01:53:09.520 --> 01:53:12.950
Yeah, it's like each of the four Janna
01:53:12.960 --> 01:53:16.149
has three corresponding Brahma realms
01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:18.310
with I'm pretty sure Mahab Brahma being
01:53:18.320 --> 01:53:20.629
corresponding to first Janna down at the
01:53:20.639 --> 01:53:22.310
bottom.
01:53:22.320 --> 01:53:25.189
And I mean that's that's pretty much all
01:53:25.199 --> 01:53:27.189
there is to say about it. I mean I don't
01:53:27.199 --> 01:53:28.950
remember the official names of these
01:53:28.960 --> 01:53:31.910
Brahma realms. I'm fairly skeptical of
01:53:31.920 --> 01:53:35.830
their objective empirical existence.
01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:38.629
Not that there aren't four Janna realms
01:53:38.639 --> 01:53:41.750
or four Jas. I mean, you can divide Jas
01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:43.910
up into four. In Abidama, they divide it
01:53:43.920 --> 01:53:47.030
up into five. The formless realms add
01:53:47.040 --> 01:53:49.910
new Jonas. They're sort of subsidiary to
01:53:49.920 --> 01:53:51.350
fourth Janna. They're considered to be
01:53:51.360 --> 01:53:53.430
sort of like additions to fourth Janna
01:53:53.440 --> 01:53:55.030
because they'd already settled on four
01:53:55.040 --> 01:53:59.910
Jonas in the in the Sutas.
01:53:59.920 --> 01:54:03.510
Oh, let's see
01:54:03.520 --> 01:54:05.350
what what else is there to say about
01:54:05.360 --> 01:54:08.390
this.
01:54:08.400 --> 01:54:10.070
See, let's just read the question again.
01:54:10.080 --> 01:54:11.750
What do you know about the polycanon
01:54:11.760 --> 01:54:13.669
teachings that pertain to the johnic
01:54:13.679 --> 01:54:17.189
attainments and their correlated rebirth
01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:19.030
in the various da realms? It wouldn't be
01:54:19.040 --> 01:54:21.270
da realms, it would be Brahma realms.
01:54:21.280 --> 01:54:22.550
That's where that's how you get into
01:54:22.560 --> 01:54:24.550
Brahma realms is through Janna. That's
01:54:24.560 --> 01:54:25.910
pretty much the only way to get into
01:54:25.920 --> 01:54:29.350
Brahma realms is to have
01:54:29.360 --> 01:54:32.629
gotten some Janna in this life. Not even
01:54:32.639 --> 01:54:34.310
necessarily mastered it. That would be
01:54:34.320 --> 01:54:36.390
like you master first Janna. That would
01:54:36.400 --> 01:54:37.910
get you up into the level of Maha
01:54:37.920 --> 01:54:39.510
Brahma, I think, if I remember
01:54:39.520 --> 01:54:41.350
correctly.
01:54:41.360 --> 01:54:43.910
Not just his his retinue and his his
01:54:43.920 --> 01:54:50.629
counselors, but the the big guy himself.
01:54:50.639 --> 01:54:52.629
So, yeah. And then there's like the
01:54:52.639 --> 01:54:55.430
formless Janna realms, like the formless
01:54:55.440 --> 01:54:59.189
Brahma realms supposedly correlate to
01:54:59.199 --> 01:55:01.669
the somewhat anacronistic
01:55:01.679 --> 01:55:04.790
four like formless
01:55:04.800 --> 01:55:06.310
genres.
01:55:06.320 --> 01:55:09.589
So in my opinion, the whole thing is is
01:55:09.599 --> 01:55:11.189
sort of cooked up after the Buddhist
01:55:11.199 --> 01:55:13.030
time. I would be surprised if the Buddha
01:55:13.040 --> 01:55:14.629
really taught this stuff. I won't just
01:55:14.639 --> 01:55:17.910
categorically deny it, but I would be
01:55:17.920 --> 01:55:20.790
mildly surprised if the Buddha really
01:55:20.800 --> 01:55:23.350
did teach, you know, the details of the
01:55:23.360 --> 01:55:26.629
31 plains of existence and how, you
01:55:26.639 --> 01:55:29.030
know, you you master this level of
01:55:29.040 --> 01:55:31.350
Janna, it's going to get you into that
01:55:31.360 --> 01:55:33.510
particular Brahma realm and the four
01:55:33.520 --> 01:55:35.189
formless Janna will get you into the
01:55:35.199 --> 01:55:39.910
formless Brahma realms. Even though like
01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:43.350
mention of the the formless realms
01:55:43.360 --> 01:55:45.750
goes all the way back at least
01:55:45.760 --> 01:55:49.350
historically or like legendarily
01:55:49.360 --> 01:55:50.790
to right after the Buddha became
01:55:50.800 --> 01:55:52.870
enlightened like the Buddha right after
01:55:52.880 --> 01:55:56.470
his enlightenment he's using the dva eye
01:55:56.480 --> 01:55:59.830
debauch you know clairvoyance to see who
01:55:59.840 --> 01:56:01.589
he should teach and first he's thinking
01:56:01.599 --> 01:56:03.589
of you know his first two teachers his
01:56:03.599 --> 01:56:05.990
first two meditation teachers and then
01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:08.550
he through, you know, the divine eye. He
01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:10.709
sees that they're up in formless Brahma
01:56:10.719 --> 01:56:14.229
realms. So that he can't he can't access
01:56:14.239 --> 01:56:15.510
them there and teach them because they
01:56:15.520 --> 01:56:19.669
don't have any sense organs.
01:56:19.679 --> 01:56:22.149
So it's it's it's complicated. I mean
01:56:22.159 --> 01:56:24.629
the evolution everything is impermanent.
01:56:24.639 --> 01:56:26.470
Everything changes over time. I mean all
01:56:26.480 --> 01:56:27.990
you have to do is just look at the early
01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:30.790
history of Christianity and you see that
01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:32.790
Christianity was mutating like a virus
01:56:32.800 --> 01:56:35.990
during its first century of existence.
01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:40.390
And it's similar in Buddhism like terra
01:56:40.400 --> 01:56:42.870
Buddhism. It mutated like a virus for
01:56:42.880 --> 01:56:44.950
its first I mean at least a hundred
01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:47.669
years. That was the first schisms
01:56:47.679 --> 01:56:49.270
occurred about 100 years after the time
01:56:49.280 --> 01:56:52.470
of the Buddha's passing away and still
01:56:52.480 --> 01:56:55.270
terabara Buddhism was mutating
01:56:55.280 --> 01:56:58.550
like Abidama didn't even exist yet until
01:56:58.560 --> 01:57:03.830
after the first schisms.
01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:05.589
So, it's it's kind of an academic
01:57:05.599 --> 01:57:07.669
question. Cole's first question here is
01:57:07.679 --> 01:57:09.990
somewhat academic or or dogmatic
01:57:10.000 --> 01:57:12.470
depending on how you want to look at it.
01:57:12.480 --> 01:57:13.830
Because if you want to believe that it's
01:57:13.840 --> 01:57:16.149
all true, then it's in the text right
01:57:16.159 --> 01:57:17.990
there, but you want to know the actual
01:57:18.000 --> 01:57:20.790
truth of the matter. You may might be a
01:57:20.800 --> 01:57:25.189
little more skeptical.
01:57:25.199 --> 01:57:27.189
So, I'm just going to move on to Cole's
01:57:27.199 --> 01:57:30.070
second question. Does the mind need to
01:57:30.080 --> 01:57:33.430
actively immerse in Janna at the time of
01:57:33.440 --> 01:57:35.589
death for that type of rebirth to occur
01:57:35.599 --> 01:57:38.149
according to the teachings? And I used
01:57:38.159 --> 01:57:40.950
to think about that also. It's like just
01:57:40.960 --> 01:57:45.270
having the ability to enter Janna,
01:57:45.280 --> 01:57:47.030
is that good enough? Or do you have to
01:57:47.040 --> 01:57:50.629
actually die in Janna in order for you
01:57:50.639 --> 01:57:53.589
to wind up in a Brahma realm?
01:57:53.599 --> 01:57:57.589
And one of the best indicators I know of
01:57:57.599 --> 01:57:59.430
for the first option would be the
01:57:59.440 --> 01:58:02.070
Godasuta. very strange and interesting
01:58:02.080 --> 01:58:04.870
Godasuta of the Samutin Nikkaya where
01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:07.669
God gets Janna and loses it and gets it
01:58:07.679 --> 01:58:09.750
and loses it and gets it and loses it
01:58:09.760 --> 01:58:12.149
until finally in a state of semide
01:58:12.159 --> 01:58:14.629
desperation maybe full fullon
01:58:14.639 --> 01:58:16.390
desperation
01:58:16.400 --> 01:58:20.149
he he's thinking if I die with Janna I'm
01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:23.189
guaranteed of a Brahma realm but if I
01:58:23.199 --> 01:58:26.310
die when I don't have Janna like I'm I
01:58:26.320 --> 01:58:28.550
haven't mastered it yet or you know I'm
01:58:28.560 --> 01:58:32.310
not able to access it, then there's no
01:58:32.320 --> 01:58:33.910
guarantees where I'm going to wind up. I
01:58:33.920 --> 01:58:35.589
could wind up in hell in a lower realm
01:58:35.599 --> 01:58:39.430
or something. And so he he selfdeleted,
01:58:39.440 --> 01:58:42.390
cutting his own throat with his razor
01:58:42.400 --> 01:58:46.790
um after he got Jonah the next time and
01:58:46.800 --> 01:58:49.030
he wound up becoming enlightened. So I
01:58:49.040 --> 01:58:51.830
mean, I assume he was was not in a
01:58:51.840 --> 01:58:54.790
johnic state when he's lying on his c
01:58:54.800 --> 01:58:56.629
with with the the straight razor in his
01:58:56.639 --> 01:58:59.510
hand. So presumably just based on that
01:58:59.520 --> 01:59:02.470
bit of evidence according to terra
01:59:02.480 --> 01:59:04.950
Buddhist tradition you just have to be
01:59:04.960 --> 01:59:08.390
in a state where you can access Janna
01:59:08.400 --> 01:59:10.070
you don't necessarily have to be
01:59:10.080 --> 01:59:13.030
absorbed in a johnic state at the moment
01:59:13.040 --> 01:59:14.709
of death in order to get into these
01:59:14.719 --> 01:59:16.149
states but you have to have a mental
01:59:16.159 --> 01:59:18.310
state that is open to Janna and
01:59:18.320 --> 01:59:20.470
accessible to it
01:59:20.480 --> 01:59:22.790
in order to get into these Brahma realms
01:59:22.800 --> 01:59:25.990
after you die technically speaking
01:59:26.000 --> 01:59:27.109
although
01:59:27.119 --> 01:59:31.430
At least a grain of of skepticism is
01:59:31.440 --> 01:59:34.149
maybe prudent in this case, unless you
01:59:34.159 --> 01:59:37.270
really are relying on fullon stainless
01:59:37.280 --> 01:59:39.830
steel faith in the whole system, in
01:59:39.840 --> 01:59:41.830
which case again you're probably
01:59:41.840 --> 01:59:45.990
watching the wrong videos.
01:59:46.000 --> 01:59:49.270
So let's just go on to Cole's third
01:59:49.280 --> 01:59:51.750
question, which is are these teachings
01:59:51.760 --> 01:59:53.589
from the Buddha or commentarial? And
01:59:53.599 --> 01:59:55.990
that is a false dichotomy
01:59:56.000 --> 01:59:59.109
because there's this middle ground of
01:59:59.119 --> 02:00:01.750
post you know after the lifetime of the
02:00:01.760 --> 02:00:04.709
Buddha but before the commentaries where
02:00:04.719 --> 02:00:07.589
the sutas are actually
02:00:07.599 --> 02:00:09.990
mutating like a virus or just the
02:00:10.000 --> 02:00:12.070
philosophy of Buddhism is mutating like
02:00:12.080 --> 02:00:15.109
a virus. systematizers are kind of
02:00:15.119 --> 02:00:17.750
locking stuff down into like the
02:00:17.760 --> 02:00:19.510
description of the four genres which is
02:00:19.520 --> 02:00:22.149
just a verbatim block of information
02:00:22.159 --> 02:00:25.430
that is just inserted into sutas. The 12
02:00:25.440 --> 02:00:27.430
nidana theory of padicha samopat would
02:00:27.440 --> 02:00:31.189
be another case of just the sort of a
02:00:31.199 --> 02:00:32.709
hard to understand teaching of the
02:00:32.719 --> 02:00:34.790
Buddha just gets crystallized into this
02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:37.030
block of words that just gets inserted
02:00:37.040 --> 02:00:40.870
into suta after suta.
02:00:40.880 --> 02:00:43.910
So, I don't think that these teachings
02:00:43.920 --> 02:00:46.390
necessarily came from the Buddha. I
02:00:46.400 --> 02:00:48.870
mean, maybe he may have kind of touched
02:00:48.880 --> 02:00:50.950
on it a little bit and then it just got
02:00:50.960 --> 02:00:52.550
elaborated
02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:55.430
into 31 plains of existence and the the
02:00:55.440 --> 02:00:58.950
three levels of of Brahma realms for
02:00:58.960 --> 02:01:01.910
each Janna and all this,
02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:04.950
but it's it's probably after the time of
02:01:04.960 --> 02:01:08.310
the Buddha, but before Buddha Goa.
02:01:08.320 --> 02:01:10.470
So it's not hasn't devolved into
02:01:10.480 --> 02:01:13.270
Buddhagosism yet, but it's it's in the
02:01:13.280 --> 02:01:17.990
sutas. It's in the poly sutas, but
02:01:18.000 --> 02:01:19.669
still just because something is in the
02:01:19.679 --> 02:01:21.589
polyutas does not mean that the Buddha
02:01:21.599 --> 02:01:23.910
himself necessarily taught it or
02:01:23.920 --> 02:01:27.350
endorsed it.
02:01:27.360 --> 02:01:30.550
So I'm guessing, you know, it it arose
02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:34.070
this idea arose. I mean, I'm unfamiliar
02:01:34.080 --> 02:01:36.470
with the other Hinayana schools and
02:01:36.480 --> 02:01:38.629
their opinions on the matter. It may be
02:01:38.639 --> 02:01:41.589
during the first hundred years of
02:01:41.599 --> 02:01:43.430
virus-like mutation of Buddhist
02:01:43.440 --> 02:01:45.510
philosophy that this arose so that it
02:01:45.520 --> 02:01:48.229
could still be in the core texts of the
02:01:48.239 --> 02:01:49.830
sutas.
02:01:49.840 --> 02:01:51.189
Just because something is in the core
02:01:51.199 --> 02:01:53.750
text, all that really means is that in
02:01:53.760 --> 02:01:58.310
all likelihood it was already like
02:01:58.320 --> 02:02:02.870
like set it set as scripture or official
02:02:02.880 --> 02:02:06.470
doctrine before the schism started and
02:02:06.480 --> 02:02:09.589
like the second council
02:02:09.599 --> 02:02:11.589
or maybe I guess the schism started
02:02:11.599 --> 02:02:13.910
after the second council.
02:02:13.920 --> 02:02:15.430
So approximately a hundred years after
02:02:15.440 --> 02:02:19.109
the time of the Buddha.
02:02:19.119 --> 02:02:21.350
Okay, I guess I answered that and then
02:02:21.360 --> 02:02:22.790
moving on to the next question WHICH IS
02:02:22.800 --> 02:02:25.669
THE LAST QUESTION. In fact, this
02:02:25.679 --> 02:02:30.390
question was asked um just shortly
02:02:30.400 --> 02:02:33.189
before I I started this video. So, this
02:02:33.199 --> 02:02:35.830
is from Yoshi Buouie and Yoshi Buouie
02:02:35.840 --> 02:02:39.589
says, "According to my research, memory
02:02:39.599 --> 02:02:42.470
isn't stored in a fixed location inside
02:02:42.480 --> 02:02:45.189
the brain. Rather, it is distributed
02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:47.350
throughout the brain via a web of
02:02:47.360 --> 02:02:49.990
interconnections between brain cells
02:02:50.000 --> 02:02:52.070
that are constantly reshaped by
02:02:52.080 --> 02:02:55.270
experience. These interconnections can
02:02:55.280 --> 02:02:57.990
of course be disconnected.
02:02:58.000 --> 02:03:00.470
Do you see a parallel between how memory
02:03:00.480 --> 02:03:03.189
as described above is created and how
02:03:03.199 --> 02:03:05.510
karma is created?
02:03:05.520 --> 02:03:08.070
Well, when I read this, the first thing
02:03:08.080 --> 02:03:09.910
that that came to my mind was a quote
02:03:09.920 --> 02:03:12.790
from Burton Russell that I wrote in my
02:03:12.800 --> 02:03:14.149
little notebook that I used to keep when
02:03:14.159 --> 02:03:16.310
I was a monk. I mean, this this notebook
02:03:16.320 --> 02:03:19.669
has been in several Burmese caves.
02:03:19.679 --> 02:03:21.430
And when I would read something
02:03:21.440 --> 02:03:23.830
interesting in a book that I didn't own,
02:03:23.840 --> 02:03:26.310
I would write it down in this notebook.
02:03:26.320 --> 02:03:29.189
And so, this is from human knowledge,
02:03:29.199 --> 02:03:33.589
its scope and limits by Bertin Russell.
02:03:33.599 --> 02:03:35.750
And so Bertin Russell says when a
02:03:35.760 --> 02:03:38.390
physiologist examines a brain he does
02:03:38.400 --> 02:03:40.950
not see thoughts. Therefore the brain is
02:03:40.960 --> 02:03:42.870
one thing and the mind which thinks is
02:03:42.880 --> 02:03:45.350
another. The fallacy in this argument
02:03:45.360 --> 02:03:47.669
consists in supposing that a man can see
02:03:47.679 --> 02:03:50.629
matter. Not even the ablest physiologist
02:03:50.639 --> 02:03:54.070
can perform this feat. His percept when
02:03:54.080 --> 02:03:57.510
he looks at a brain is an end is an
02:03:57.520 --> 02:04:00.629
event in his own mind and has only a
02:04:00.639 --> 02:04:02.709
causal connection with the brain that he
02:04:02.719 --> 02:04:05.750
fancies he is seeing. When in a powerful
02:04:05.760 --> 02:04:08.870
telescope he sees a tiny luminous dot
02:04:08.880 --> 02:04:11.270
and interprets it as a vast nebula
02:04:11.280 --> 02:04:13.430
existing a million years ago. He
02:04:13.440 --> 02:04:15.510
realizes that what he sees is different
02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:18.070
from what he infers. The difference from
02:04:18.080 --> 02:04:20.149
the case of a brain looked at through a
02:04:20.159 --> 02:04:23.030
microscope is only one of degree. There
02:04:23.040 --> 02:04:26.149
is exactly the same need of inference by
02:04:26.159 --> 02:04:28.550
means of the laws of physics from the
02:04:28.560 --> 02:04:31.990
visual datim to its physical cause. And
02:04:32.000 --> 02:04:34.390
just as no one supposes that the nebula
02:04:34.400 --> 02:04:36.709
has any close resemblance to a luminous
02:04:36.719 --> 02:04:39.510
dot, so no one should suppose that the
02:04:39.520 --> 02:04:41.750
brain has any close resemblance to what
02:04:41.760 --> 02:04:45.270
the physiologist sees.
02:04:45.280 --> 02:04:47.270
Amen.
02:04:47.280 --> 02:04:49.030
Although Burton Russell was still kind
02:04:49.040 --> 02:04:51.350
of a materialist. I mean, he was still
02:04:51.360 --> 02:04:53.669
um an advocate of scientism to some
02:04:53.679 --> 02:04:57.510
degree, especially in his later years.
02:04:57.520 --> 02:05:00.149
So, I mean, it's it's kind of a
02:05:00.159 --> 02:05:02.070
materialistic interpretation of how
02:05:02.080 --> 02:05:03.750
memory works. It's is kind of the point
02:05:03.760 --> 02:05:05.510
that I'm making here. And it's not
02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:08.470
necessarily an accurate or reliable
02:05:08.480 --> 02:05:10.070
description of how memory actually
02:05:10.080 --> 02:05:13.270
works. I mean, you cannot prove that
02:05:13.280 --> 02:05:15.030
there is a physical brain that even
02:05:15.040 --> 02:05:17.830
exists. Read George Barkley. He'll tell
02:05:17.840 --> 02:05:20.870
you.
02:05:20.880 --> 02:05:23.910
He'll explain it all.
02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:27.270
But, uh, I really do not see much of a
02:05:27.280 --> 02:05:29.030
parallel between how memory, as
02:05:29.040 --> 02:05:30.950
described above, is created and how
02:05:30.960 --> 02:05:33.750
karma is created. I mean, karma is just
02:05:33.760 --> 02:05:37.109
the momentum of your mental states.
02:05:37.119 --> 02:05:41.990
It's not some sort of holographic
02:05:42.000 --> 02:05:43.669
pattern
02:05:43.679 --> 02:05:45.910
kind of a thing like memory is supposed
02:05:45.920 --> 02:05:48.629
to be going with this interpretation of
02:05:48.639 --> 02:05:50.310
neuroysiology
02:05:50.320 --> 02:05:53.750
and psychology and so forth.
02:05:53.760 --> 02:05:56.709
So I would say the karma is much simpler
02:05:56.719 --> 02:05:59.189
you know it's just
02:05:59.199 --> 02:06:01.830
I mean it can I mean ultimately karma is
02:06:01.840 --> 02:06:03.669
very complicated because there's so much
02:06:03.679 --> 02:06:05.910
of it and it's you you can have
02:06:05.920 --> 02:06:08.390
complicated momentum
02:06:08.400 --> 02:06:11.750
but still as I've as I've said karma is
02:06:11.760 --> 02:06:15.750
really it's like you've got the virtual
02:06:15.760 --> 02:06:17.830
images contained in the block of marble
02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:21.030
that are act that actually can move.
02:06:21.040 --> 02:06:25.109
So it's the perception would correspond
02:06:25.119 --> 02:06:28.709
to the form of the image and volition
02:06:28.719 --> 02:06:31.830
which is karma corresponds to the
02:06:31.840 --> 02:06:34.709
movement and at the same time the kind
02:06:34.719 --> 02:06:36.390
of
02:06:36.400 --> 02:06:40.709
like momentum and stability the stab
02:06:40.719 --> 02:06:44.310
stability of the perception to still be
02:06:44.320 --> 02:06:46.950
essentially appear to be the same thing
02:06:46.960 --> 02:06:49.669
over time even though it's not. you
02:06:49.679 --> 02:06:52.950
know, it's it's sort of the movement and
02:06:52.960 --> 02:06:55.030
stability of the pattern at the same
02:06:55.040 --> 02:06:57.109
time.
02:06:57.119 --> 02:06:59.030
And so it's it seems like it's a very
02:06:59.040 --> 02:07:00.790
different principle from a kind of
02:07:00.800 --> 02:07:05.350
holographic memory in a presumed
02:07:05.360 --> 02:07:09.830
physical brain.
02:07:09.840 --> 02:07:11.990
And who knows, I mean the way memory
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:14.870
works even in science may be changed
02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:16.790
over time
02:07:16.800 --> 02:07:19.430
um through you know radical
02:07:19.440 --> 02:07:22.149
reinterpretations of
02:07:22.159 --> 02:07:28.069
basic assumptions.
02:07:28.079 --> 02:07:30.870
Yeah. So I mean if you see karma as a
02:07:30.880 --> 02:07:33.270
kind of momentum you know it's not a
02:07:33.280 --> 02:07:37.669
matter of patterns being stored in like
02:07:37.679 --> 02:07:40.550
a static object. I mean, it's it's got
02:07:40.560 --> 02:07:43.430
patterns, maybe complicated patterns,
02:07:43.440 --> 02:07:45.510
sort of like the complicated patterns
02:07:45.520 --> 02:07:48.870
allegedly forming a memory in the brain,
02:07:48.880 --> 02:07:50.709
but it just seems like it's it's
02:07:50.719 --> 02:07:53.030
comparing apples to oranges or comparing
02:07:53.040 --> 02:07:56.790
apples to to like, I don't know, wooden
02:07:56.800 --> 02:07:59.350
barrels or something.
02:07:59.360 --> 02:08:01.109
Yeah, it's just very different. I mean,
02:08:01.119 --> 02:08:03.270
I don't think the principle is really a
02:08:03.280 --> 02:08:05.510
parallel kind of a principle. You can
02:08:05.520 --> 02:08:07.589
find resemblances and you can find
02:08:07.599 --> 02:08:09.510
differences, but I don't think it's
02:08:09.520 --> 02:08:11.830
really a good analogy for how karma
02:08:11.840 --> 02:08:13.350
works.
02:08:13.360 --> 02:08:16.470
It's habit energy rather than and you
02:08:16.480 --> 02:08:18.790
could say that memory is also habit
02:08:18.800 --> 02:08:22.709
energy, but still I mean it's it doesn't
02:08:22.719 --> 02:08:26.069
have much to do with the like
02:08:26.079 --> 02:08:28.470
theoretical way in which it is stored in
02:08:28.480 --> 02:08:31.270
a brain. It's just the subjective
02:08:31.280 --> 02:08:33.750
experience of it.
02:08:33.760 --> 02:08:36.470
habit energy. So karma and memory could
02:08:36.480 --> 02:08:39.589
both be called habit energy. And I mean
02:08:39.599 --> 02:08:42.550
memory would be part of your karma. You
02:08:42.560 --> 02:08:44.310
know, it's part of the stabilizing
02:08:44.320 --> 02:08:47.109
pattern that that keeps your perceptions
02:08:47.119 --> 02:08:49.510
from just becoming something completely
02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:50.870
different. So that everything is
02:08:50.880 --> 02:08:52.709
unrecognizable from one moment to the
02:08:52.719 --> 02:08:54.229
next.
02:08:54.239 --> 02:08:55.830
But describing karma is very difficult.
02:08:55.840 --> 02:08:58.149
And the Buddha himself says in the text
02:08:58.159 --> 02:09:00.390
that trying to work out all the
02:09:00.400 --> 02:09:06.390
complexities of it can lead to insanity.
02:09:06.400 --> 02:09:09.589
So, as a way of avoiding insanity in
02:09:09.599 --> 02:09:12.069
myself and in others, I think I'm just
02:09:12.079 --> 02:09:15.109
going to call it good or good enough for
02:09:15.119 --> 02:09:17.669
now and apologize to Yoshi Buouie and
02:09:17.679 --> 02:09:20.950
everybody else that may be dissatisfied
02:09:20.960 --> 02:09:23.830
with my answers, but I did the best I
02:09:23.840 --> 02:09:28.390
could, I guess. And so
02:09:28.400 --> 02:09:30.310
like and subscribe if you have not done
02:09:30.320 --> 02:09:33.350
so already or even if you don't like it.
02:09:33.360 --> 02:09:35.350
I mean you can still subscribe you know
02:09:35.360 --> 02:09:38.470
you just hate watch. I guess some people
02:09:38.480 --> 02:09:40.709
do it
02:09:40.719 --> 02:09:42.790
and look at my URL links below which
02:09:42.800 --> 02:09:45.350
includes my new book
02:09:45.360 --> 02:09:48.069
Memoirs from Myanmar which is much more
02:09:48.079 --> 02:09:51.350
autobiographical than my other books.
02:09:51.360 --> 02:09:53.030
And uh if you have any questions you
02:09:53.040 --> 02:09:55.830
think I can answer, I mean you probably
02:09:55.840 --> 02:09:57.669
get some idea of the kind of stuff I can
02:09:57.679 --> 02:10:01.430
answer from this Q&A. Although I also
02:10:01.440 --> 02:10:03.189
have have some more familiarity with
02:10:03.199 --> 02:10:06.709
like western philosophy and so forth. Um
02:10:06.719 --> 02:10:09.350
just feel free to ask and no more than
02:10:09.360 --> 02:10:11.910
three questions per person per episode,
02:10:11.920 --> 02:10:15.350
please. And for crying out loud, be
02:10:15.360 --> 02:10:18.360
happy.
Kind: captions
Language: en
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.950
Okay, then it looks like we're
00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:08.390
recording, which is good.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.070
Hello and welcome to question and answer
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.789
number 191.
00:00:14.799 --> 00:00:16.790
I am your host, Pony Bossa, and it is
00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.710
that time of day on a Sunday afternoon
00:00:20.720 --> 00:00:22.150
when the light is coming through the
00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:24.470
blinds just right so that I've got these
00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:27.509
horizontal bars of light across my face.
00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:29.269
Do not worry. It's not anything
00:00:29.279 --> 00:00:32.310
paranormal.
00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.910
This is my beverage. I haven't already I
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:38.470
haven't already said that. You know,
00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:41.030
just the the flurry of just starting a
00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:43.910
new Q&A sometimes can result in confused
00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.670
mindfulness.
00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:50.790
H. And 191 is a prime number as far as I
00:00:50.800 --> 00:00:53.029
can tell. So, we're in the prime of our
00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.389
lives at this moment.
00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:58.470
And let's see anything else I got to say
00:00:58.480 --> 00:01:01.110
by way of introduction before wading
00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:03.910
into this. We might be interrupted a
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.109
little bit. I might be distracted during
00:01:07.119 --> 00:01:09.990
the course of this Q&A because my woman
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.950
is expecting company.
00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:17.429
So with that as an excuse for any
00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:20.469
imperfections in this Q&A, suppose I
00:01:20.479 --> 00:01:21.830
should just wade right into this. And
00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:23.109
there's not going to be a whole lot of
00:01:23.119 --> 00:01:26.630
questions this time. know it's low 20s
00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:28.710
so kind of at the lower end which is
00:01:28.720 --> 00:01:30.950
fine.
00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:34.230
First question is from Romeo
00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:37.109
and Romeo says if I am correct the
00:01:37.119 --> 00:01:40.710
philosophical theory called natural law
00:01:40.720 --> 00:01:44.390
with N and L capitalized natural law
00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:47.190
posits that moral principles and rights
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.149
are inherent in human nature and the
00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.270
natural world and are independent of any
00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:56.710
laws imposed by society and or religious
00:01:56.720 --> 00:01:59.270
authorities.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.550
Let's see. That's not the question
00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:02.789
though. Oh, here it is. What is your
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.709
knowledge and opinion of natural law?
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.589
Okay. So, I mean, I really hadn't
00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.550
studied much natural law. I mean, I have
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.430
had some indirect contacts with the with
00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:18.630
the idea. Plus, I did look it up. And
00:02:18.640 --> 00:02:22.869
according to the source that I inquired
00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:24.710
into with regard to natural law, it
00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:27.670
says, "Natural law is a moral philosophy
00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.229
asserting that humans possess an innate
00:02:30.239 --> 00:02:32.949
objective moral order discoverable
00:02:32.959 --> 00:02:35.350
through reasoned
00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:37.990
in human nature and the structure of
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.869
reality itself."
00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:42.869
And it turns out that the the most
00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:46.150
famous, you know, early promoter of this
00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:49.270
was Aristotle.
00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:51.670
So my knowledge and opinion of natural
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:54.630
law.
00:02:54.640 --> 00:02:58.949
Let's delve into this shall we?
00:02:58.959 --> 00:03:02.309
Um first of all he says Romeo says
00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.309
natural law posits that moral principles
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.110
and rights are inherent in human nature
00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:10.630
and the natural world. Um I mean would
00:03:10.640 --> 00:03:12.229
they have been inherent in the natural
00:03:12.239 --> 00:03:14.790
world before humans evolved? I mean, was
00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.750
there still moral principles and rights
00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:19.750
that existed say in the age of
00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:22.949
dinosaurs?
00:03:22.959 --> 00:03:25.030
I don't know. I mean, the rights itself,
00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:27.270
I remember there was a guy who joined
00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.149
our Discord server, the Discord server
00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.949
loosely associated with with all this.
00:03:34.959 --> 00:03:37.589
And he was insisting that there are
00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:39.990
genuine rights that are not just a a
00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.270
cultural construct. and people pretty
00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:44.949
much dogpiled him. I kind of
00:03:44.959 --> 00:03:47.270
participated in this because I just do
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.390
not see how a right is just innate in
00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:56.149
the fabric of empirical reality. Like
00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.550
just set aside morals like a moral law,
00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:00.390
set aside, you know, ideas of right and
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.670
wrong and so forth, but just rights.
00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.149
I mean, that seems like a political
00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.949
construct to me, a right, you know, does
00:04:08.959 --> 00:04:13.110
does an animal in a jungle have rights?
00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.589
Well, I mean, where do you draw the I
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:17.990
mean, is it is there just like this
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.949
miraculous line that is drawn between
00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:24.790
humans and non-human animals so that you
00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:27.430
know humans just innately have these
00:04:27.440 --> 00:04:30.310
rights, but say
00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:33.189
a stegosaurus
00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:35.510
tens of millions of years ago, I mean,
00:04:35.520 --> 00:04:37.830
did it have rights
00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:40.870
just built right into the system?
00:04:40.880 --> 00:04:43.430
I don't think so. So rights I am
00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:45.830
skeptical of. If someone can present a
00:04:45.840 --> 00:04:49.110
good case that everyone has a certain
00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:50.629
right
00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:53.830
that is just built into the fabric of of
00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:56.790
empirical reality then you know I'm
00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:58.870
quite willing to hear the case. You
00:04:58.880 --> 00:05:00.550
know, I'm I'm open-minded on the
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.350
subject, but I am skeptical in that I
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.469
really see rights, you know, like the
00:05:06.479 --> 00:05:09.590
right to bear arms or the right to
00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:12.790
health care or, you know, the right to
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:16.950
just equality even that
00:05:16.960 --> 00:05:19.749
it seems like it's artificially just
00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.029
kind of imposed by society or government
00:05:23.039 --> 00:05:26.230
or whatever. and that if society or
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.629
government just takes away that support,
00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:32.150
the right just kind of evaporates.
00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.029
So, let's just set rights aside and just
00:05:35.039 --> 00:05:37.189
deal with morals because this seems to
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:42.469
be mainly what Romeo is curious about is
00:05:42.479 --> 00:05:44.550
are morals
00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.590
just natural or artificial?
00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:50.550
And I would say um at the human level,
00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.150
you know, the level of a normie for
00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:53.830
example, it's it's a combination of
00:05:53.840 --> 00:05:58.070
both. You know, some some morals are
00:05:58.080 --> 00:06:00.950
like arbitrary and artificial. A big
00:06:00.960 --> 00:06:04.870
one, a huge one lately is with regard to
00:06:04.880 --> 00:06:07.350
pedophilia. Maybe I shouldn't even be
00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:08.790
saying it. I shouldn't be mentioning
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.790
it's so taboo now. But for most of the
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:15.749
human race, when a person goes through
00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:19.749
puberty, they are biologically an adult.
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:23.029
And so for like an older man and a
00:06:23.039 --> 00:06:24.710
postpubescent
00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:29.189
nubile female to have relations,
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:31.670
especially after marriage, I mean, it
00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:33.670
was just the way it was. It's like Edgar
00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.990
Allan Poe married his 13-year-old cousin
00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.950
in America in the like the early to mid
00:06:40.960 --> 00:06:45.029
1800s and it was just allowable. I mean
00:06:45.039 --> 00:06:46.629
probably some people were grumbling
00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.670
about it but still I mean it was just it
00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.150
was accepted. It's like in India
00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:55.909
traditionally they have this idea that
00:06:55.919 --> 00:06:58.950
once a girl reaches puberty and starts
00:06:58.960 --> 00:07:02.550
menstruating every menstruation is
00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:04.629
practically the same as murdering a
00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:10.629
baby. It's just a wasted menstruation.
00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.629
So some some morals are kind of
00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:16.710
arbitrary especially like in the
00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:20.629
Buddhist monastic code like Vignia a lot
00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.430
of the the the morals or just the the
00:07:23.440 --> 00:07:25.990
precepts that a monk undertakes when he
00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.990
is ordained you know he's following
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.430
vineia he's a conscientious monk
00:07:29.440 --> 00:07:31.749
following vineia a lot of that is just
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.390
etiquette you know not talking with your
00:07:34.400 --> 00:07:36.629
mouth full of food you know it's against
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.029
the rules or or not growing your hair a
00:07:39.039 --> 00:07:41.110
certain length I mean Your hair is not
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.029
allowed to get more than two finger
00:07:43.039 --> 00:07:45.909
widths or two months, whichever comes
00:07:45.919 --> 00:07:47.830
first. You've got to cut it before then.
00:07:47.840 --> 00:07:49.510
I mean, that's not moral. It's not
00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:51.430
immoral to eat in the afternoon, for
00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:54.309
example. And that kind of gets into like
00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.670
regular secular morals, too. Jewish
00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:59.830
morals, for example, like keeping the
00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:02.469
Sabbath, not even flipping a light
00:08:02.479 --> 00:08:07.830
switch on the Sabbath day, for example,
00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:13.270
or not eating levenin, not eating yeast
00:08:13.280 --> 00:08:15.430
during Passover week. I mean, that would
00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:19.189
be seen as moral from a Jewish point of
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:21.189
view. You know, was laid down by God who
00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.510
is the ultimate judge with regard to
00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:26.230
morals presumably.
00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:28.950
But still, I mean, from a natural point
00:08:28.960 --> 00:08:30.710
of view, there's nothing inherently
00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.310
immoral
00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.589
with eating yeast during a certain time
00:08:35.599 --> 00:08:37.509
period where it's okay the rest of the
00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:39.269
time, but this during this certain time
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.149
period of Passover, eating yeast, you
00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:43.990
are cut off from your people. You you
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:48.310
are no longer one of God's chosen.
00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.670
So I think a lot of what is considered
00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:56.790
to be morality is to some degree
00:08:56.800 --> 00:08:59.670
um artificial and then some some of it
00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:02.070
is just sort of like evolutionarily
00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:05.350
derived you know like real pedophilia
00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:07.350
where a person is sexually attracted to
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.430
prepubescent
00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.389
children. I mean, that's there's like a
00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:16.470
taboo against that. And I mean, there's
00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:18.070
a taboo against it because it's
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:21.030
unnatural, you know? It's like it's it's
00:09:21.040 --> 00:09:23.670
going to cause harm to the child, like
00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:25.590
physical harm. They're not I mean, their
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:27.509
body isn't adjusted for that sort of
00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:29.350
stuff yet.
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:31.509
And I mean, it's it can't produce I
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:32.630
mean, they're not going to get pregnant.
00:09:32.640 --> 00:09:34.870
I mean, there, you know, there's, you
00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:37.030
know, it's not for reproduction. I mean
00:09:37.040 --> 00:09:38.630
ultimately that is the purpose for
00:09:38.640 --> 00:09:40.630
reproduction but there's a lot of
00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:42.630
neuroticism in the human race about it.
00:09:42.640 --> 00:09:45.190
Another one is incest that that is
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.550
considered to be immoral. Why is incest
00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:50.949
immoral? Because
00:09:50.959 --> 00:09:52.470
mainly
00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:54.150
I mean just setting aside just the
00:09:54.160 --> 00:09:58.550
sexuality part itself but incest is it
00:09:58.560 --> 00:10:00.710
results in severe inbreeding you know
00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:04.630
it's just not healthy. And so that even
00:10:04.640 --> 00:10:07.269
animals, you know, chimpanzees
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:10.389
have like a just an instinctive incest
00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:13.750
taboo. Other animals too, I assume, have
00:10:13.760 --> 00:10:18.389
just an instinctive incest taboo because
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.110
it's just not conducive to the health of
00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:23.750
the species. It's not a good way of
00:10:23.760 --> 00:10:25.990
promoting, you know, promulgating your
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.710
DNA sequences. So there's some of that
00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.190
that is getting into natural law. You
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:34.069
know, it's natural morals in a sense
00:10:34.079 --> 00:10:35.990
because it's just built into us
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.550
instinctive because, you know, it's just
00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:41.430
good for the species, good for our own
00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:45.190
DNA sequences.
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.870
But if you're going to get into
00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:48.710
something deeper than that, like
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.550
arguably Buddhist ethics does,
00:10:54.560 --> 00:10:56.230
then
00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.710
yeah, I mean, there is a natural law
00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.269
with regard to that. It's it's like
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:04.310
Buddhist ethics is based on human
00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.269
psychology you know it's based on karma
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.750
which is volition which is a human
00:11:09.760 --> 00:11:14.230
mental state so it's like morals in
00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.269
Buddhism are psychological
00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.829
more than imposed by some deity you know
00:11:19.839 --> 00:11:22.150
it's like the Abrahamic monotheistic
00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:25.509
religions right and wrong are determined
00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.470
by God decides what's right and wrong in
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.790
the old testament If God says you have
00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:34.710
to you have to massacre an entire town,
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:38.470
then it's immoral not to do it.
00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.389
Otherwise, it would be very immoral to
00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:42.310
do it. You know, thou shalt not kill and
00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.710
all that. But if God orders you to do it
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:49.750
and you don't do it, that's that's sin.
00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:51.269
But in Buddhism, it doesn't work that
00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.790
way. I mean the Buddha I mean he
00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:54.470
wouldn't say this but he could tell you
00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:57.750
to you know go do something wrong and
00:11:57.760 --> 00:12:00.389
just because you do it you you think the
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.710
person is a Buddha let's say and they're
00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:04.790
not. They're just some charismatic cult
00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:07.430
leader and still you've done something
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.910
wrong. And so Buddhist ethics would come
00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:15.750
about as close to natural law as you're
00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:18.550
going to find in world religions as far
00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:20.470
as I can tell. you know, other systems
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.949
would have something similar maybe. You
00:12:22.959 --> 00:12:26.550
know, it's not just the arbitrary decree
00:12:26.560 --> 00:12:31.269
of some king who's called God.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.910
So yeah, it's like if you do something
00:12:35.920 --> 00:12:40.389
and it causes you to be more
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.350
more delusional, have stronger desires
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.310
and attachments and suffering, then that
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.190
is immoral from a Buddhist point of
00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.829
view. If you do something and it causes
00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:54.150
you to have less delusion and fewer
00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:55.990
desires and attachments and less
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.470
suffering, then that's moral. I mean,
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.069
we're talking the big picture here, not
00:13:00.079 --> 00:13:03.269
just momentarily. You know, you inject
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.030
heroin, for example, and you just feel
00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:07.190
this rush of euphoria.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.750
Um, you know, that's not moral because
00:13:09.760 --> 00:13:11.990
you're feeling happy, but I mean, you're
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.350
also more delusional and like less
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.350
awake, at least with regard to your
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.069
surroundings, you know, it causes you to
00:13:20.079 --> 00:13:22.389
become more attached, have stronger
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.710
desires for the stuff and future and so
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.190
forth.
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:28.949
So
00:13:28.959 --> 00:13:32.230
yeah, I mean Buddhist
00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:35.269
ethics setting aside just the etiquette
00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:36.949
stuff like in the rules of monastic
00:13:36.959 --> 00:13:38.870
discipline and and some of the stuff
00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:42.389
like the fifth precept against drinking
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.829
alcohol. Well, I mean, let's say you
00:13:45.839 --> 00:13:48.870
take some cough syrup that has a little
00:13:48.880 --> 00:13:50.310
bit of alcohol in it, or you
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.069
accidentally take a sip of some fruit
00:13:52.079 --> 00:13:54.629
juice that started to ferment in the
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:56.870
tropical heat. You know, that happened
00:13:56.880 --> 00:13:59.350
to me as a monk. I mean, that's not
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.030
necessarily immoral, even though you're
00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:03.590
breaking one of the five precepts. And
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.550
then of course there's
00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:11.590
like cases of telling lies that
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.670
are really helpful to people. Like I I
00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:17.350
watched the movie version of Less
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.069
Miserabilis by Victor Hugo. I I don't
00:14:20.079 --> 00:14:21.430
know how to pronounce French names. I'm
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.750
not even going to try to pronounce Less
00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:26.470
Miserabilis correctly.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.389
But I mean it it pretty much starts and
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.030
the novel and the movie pretty much
00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:35.590
start with this hardened criminal Jean
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.230
vjan or Jean Valene since we're not
00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:39.990
pronouncing French words correctly or
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.430
even trying. He's a hardened criminal
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.310
and a a kindlyhearted,
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.670
relatively saintly bishop lets him spend
00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:52.310
the night in his house and the hardened
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.110
criminal steals some silver and takes
00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.430
off with it. So the the hardened
00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:00.949
criminal gets arrested and taken back to
00:15:00.959 --> 00:15:02.550
the bishop and the bishop says, "Oh no,
00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:04.870
he didn't steal it. I gave it to him."
00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:06.710
Which was a lie because he didn't really
00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.670
give it to him. I mean, maybe you could
00:15:09.680 --> 00:15:11.430
sort of say, well, he's kind of
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.110
stretching the truth a little bit. Maybe
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.949
in his heart, he gave it to him after he
00:15:14.959 --> 00:15:17.189
noticed that it was gone, this kind of
00:15:17.199 --> 00:15:19.829
stuff. But really, he didn't really give
00:15:19.839 --> 00:15:23.509
it to him. But, I mean, it changed Jean
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.069
Val Jean's life. You know, it was like
00:15:26.079 --> 00:15:27.910
the first time anyone had ever really
00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:30.550
been kind to a man and forgave him. you
00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:34.069
know, it was like a Christlike act that
00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:37.590
was, you know, conveyed upon him, so to
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.990
speak, and it changed his life. It was
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.870
like that moment caused him to really
00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:44.790
try to become a good person, and he
00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:46.870
succeeded,
00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:49.509
relatively speaking, just because this
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:52.389
bishop told a lie. And I can give other
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.710
examples. I mean, if you're going to,
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.629
you know, like the story the third wise
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.189
man where this or the fourth wise man,
00:15:59.199 --> 00:16:01.269
the other wise man, it's a famous story
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.590
about one of the wise men who's trying
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.350
to keep up with the other three that
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:07.030
were going to, you know, the magi that
00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:09.749
were going to offer gifts to the to the
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:13.030
baby Jesus.
00:16:13.040 --> 00:16:14.710
And there's the scene where King Herod
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.110
has ordered all the baby boys to be
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:21.030
massacred. And this fourth wise man,
00:16:21.040 --> 00:16:23.430
this magi is spending the night in this
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.030
house where there's a woman who has a
00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:26.949
baby boy. And she's scared because the
00:16:26.959 --> 00:16:29.749
the soldiers are pounding on doors in
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.310
order to kill the baby boys. And this
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:36.069
this magi, this wise man, he takes some
00:16:36.079 --> 00:16:37.590
of the treasure he was going to offer to
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.870
the baby Jesus. And when the soldier
00:16:40.880 --> 00:16:42.949
pounds on the door, he just gives him
00:16:42.959 --> 00:16:44.949
this huge pearl or some such and says,
00:16:44.959 --> 00:16:47.829
"There's no baby boys here." And then of
00:16:47.839 --> 00:16:50.310
course the soldier takes the bribe says
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.310
there's no baby boys in this house and
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.030
they just continue on their way and you
00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:58.230
know the the mother is weeping tears of
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:00.629
joy and gratitude on the floor because
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.910
this man just saved her baby. But he
00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:08.230
told a lie.
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.230
So I mean it's still from a Buddhist
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:11.990
point of view it would be definitely the
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.309
lesser of two evils in that case. You
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.150
know, still telling a lie is immoral
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.189
because, you know, it kind of disrupts
00:17:19.199 --> 00:17:24.789
the equilibrium of karmic stability,
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.189
so to speak.
00:17:27.199 --> 00:17:30.070
But in a case like that,
00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:32.150
um, you know, arguably you could
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.750
justify,
00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:37.830
you know, doing something wrong that is
00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:43.270
less wrong than not doing it.
00:17:43.280 --> 00:17:45.190
But I'm wandering away from this
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.870
question of natural law. So we've
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.390
already kind of established that a lot
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.110
of morals are just purely artificial.
00:17:53.120 --> 00:17:55.350
Some of them are kind of getting in
00:17:55.360 --> 00:18:00.310
towards at least like animal instinct,
00:18:00.320 --> 00:18:04.549
you know, like taboos against sex with
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.350
children, taboos against incest, that
00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:11.750
kind of thing. even even like um
00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.990
adultery, you know, there there's like
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.350
some genetic instinctive components to
00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:19.110
that, you know, of of that being
00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:22.310
considered wrong. So that would be kind
00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:23.990
of natural law, but I don't think it
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.230
would be what like Aristotle had in
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.630
mind. So you have to get into the deeper
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.390
level of like anything that gets you
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.070
closer to enlightenment is good.
00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:37.909
Anything that takes you farther away
00:18:37.919 --> 00:18:40.789
from enlightenment is bad. And that
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.110
would be a kind of natural law,
00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:44.470
especially if you don't think that
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.830
getting closer or farther away from
00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:48.310
enlightenment is just another artificial
00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:50.390
cultural construct, which in Buddhism it
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.070
is not. I mean, it's it's pretty
00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:53.590
empirical,
00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:55.430
you know, whether or not someone is
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.630
happy or unhappy, whether they're
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.350
delusional. That's,
00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:02.950
you know, that's there's going to be all
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.470
this cultural conditioning that gets in
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.190
the way of them just making a purely
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.150
objective statement or as objective of a
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.830
statement it is possible for a human
00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:17.669
being to make.
00:19:17.679 --> 00:19:21.590
I remember I went to see Jordan Peterson
00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:23.669
give a talk in San Jose, California
00:19:23.679 --> 00:19:25.510
once. This was back when he was still
00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:28.310
pretty based you know back before he was
00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:31.350
I mean he was still like a
00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:33.270
he he was still like a university
00:19:33.280 --> 00:19:36.549
professor in Toronto or some such place
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.230
you know he hadn't gotten really famous
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:39.909
yet
00:19:39.919 --> 00:19:41.750
and he gave this talk where he is trying
00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:45.029
to come up with some kind of natural law
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.510
you know he's trying to come up with a
00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:51.909
like morals that don't rely on some
00:19:51.919 --> 00:19:55.430
decree of a capital G God in a scripture
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.510
somewhere. And he was struggling. I
00:19:57.520 --> 00:19:59.909
mean, he was coming up with like
00:19:59.919 --> 00:20:02.710
experiments on white rats. How white
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.669
rats, laboratory rats, nevertheless
00:20:05.679 --> 00:20:08.789
naturally have this concept of fair
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.190
play. You know, you've got a big rat and
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.510
a little rat that that like to play and
00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:16.070
wrestle. The the big rat will let the
00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:19.909
little rat win sometimes just just
00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:21.430
because he wants to keep playing with
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.110
the little rat. And if he wins every
00:20:23.120 --> 00:20:24.549
time, the little rat's not going to want
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.870
to play. So he's trying to work out some
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:28.950
kind of natural law through this kind of
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.190
thing, which I mean, you can say there
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.110
is like a genetic component, like an
00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:35.669
instinctual component where certain
00:20:35.679 --> 00:20:41.110
immoral acts so-called, are harmful to
00:20:41.120 --> 00:20:44.230
the species, harmful to your own chances
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.630
of successfully reproducing your DNA
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.630
sequences. So that would be sort of like
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.230
a
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.430
scientific level natural law. But then
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.549
you get into Buddhist ethics where it's
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.510
just the the act itself, the physical
00:20:59.520 --> 00:21:02.710
act itself is ethically neutral. It's
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.870
just your mental states whether they
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.870
become more like awake and and serene or
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.190
whether they become more asleep and
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.190
agitated
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.390
just based on how human psychology
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.990
works.
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:19.110
You know, it's there's a lot of
00:21:19.120 --> 00:21:20.630
empiricism
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.230
with like very wise people who are like
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.630
meditation masters who can see just the
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:29.029
subtlest little differences in their
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.350
mental states. You know they can see
00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:33.350
whether this is leading to more clarity
00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:36.149
or less clarity. They can see in others
00:21:36.159 --> 00:21:38.230
whether their their actions are
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.630
resulting in more or less clarity. And
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.909
then they can sort of work out a moral
00:21:43.919 --> 00:21:46.950
system largely based on that. And I
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.950
would call that about as close to
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:54.310
natural law as you're going to get.
00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:55.909
But I don't know if it's really a moral
00:21:55.919 --> 00:21:57.350
principle. It's certainly not moral
00:21:57.360 --> 00:21:59.990
rights even principles. I mean a
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.909
principle is kind of like a truth
00:22:01.919 --> 00:22:04.390
whereas it would just have to exist as
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.029
an abstraction
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.230
and abstractions
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.149
um I mean they they have like a
00:22:12.159 --> 00:22:13.830
conventional truth but not an ultimate
00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:15.990
truth.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.870
So I would say that there's like at
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.190
least two different kinds of natural law
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.830
with regard to moral principles. You
00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:27.669
know, one is sort of like the animal
00:22:27.679 --> 00:22:31.510
level, you know, like instinctual taboos
00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:33.909
against murder, for example. And it's
00:22:33.919 --> 00:22:36.950
like when animals fight, not not just
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.669
humans, but any animals when they fight,
00:22:39.679 --> 00:22:42.310
usually it's not to the death. It's
00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:45.350
until one of them admits defeat and then
00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.070
lets out a yelp or something, which kind
00:22:48.080 --> 00:22:49.990
of diffuses the aggression from the
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.870
other. It's like the the other one wins,
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.350
the loser goes away.
00:22:55.360 --> 00:22:57.430
still alive and that's best for the
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.190
species.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.430
So I mean that that kind of natural law
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.789
too like murder and you know like sexual
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.190
stuff that kind of stuff can be like an
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.590
animal level natural law but then you
00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:12.870
get into like depth psychology
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.070
which sometimes is at variance with with
00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:18.470
animal level natural law because at the
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.070
animal level a certain amount of like
00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:21.990
greed and lust and aggression and so
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.430
forth are good for the species whereas
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.750
like from a Buddhist point of view I
00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:29.990
mean you want to get enlightened.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.230
You got to kind of detach yourself from
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.070
the animal stuff, at least as much of
00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:39.190
the animal stuff as you can.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.669
And I'm not sure how well I've addressed
00:23:41.679 --> 00:23:43.669
this question,
00:23:43.679 --> 00:23:47.029
but I think I've been going at it for
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.789
well over 15 minutes. So, I think I
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.029
should probably uh
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.830
move on to Romeo's second question. And
00:23:53.840 --> 00:23:55.510
this one is just a followup to the
00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:56.789
first, and I think I may have already
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:57.990
addressed it. He says where do
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.950
Buddhism's precepts stand in relation to
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:04.390
natural law? And it's like an overlap.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.990
There's a certain amount of ancient
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.710
Indian cultural conditioning.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:11.110
Like for example, if you're taking eight
00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:14.710
precepts and not just and not just uh
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.350
five or taking 10 precepts and not just
00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:18.870
five, you know, one of the eight
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.110
precepts is not sleeping on a high or
00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:24.470
large bed. There's nothing necessarily
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.630
immoral about sleeping on a high
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.789
platform.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.669
So I mean that is
00:24:31.679 --> 00:24:34.070
it's sort maybe indirectly I mean it's
00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:37.110
trying to weaken your attachments to
00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:40.149
luxury mainly
00:24:40.159 --> 00:24:42.149
or not handling money is one of the 10
00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:45.750
precepts or I mean just there there's a
00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:48.870
lot of of the precept stuff or I already
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.470
mentioned like drinking alcohol
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.230
sometimes if you drink it to the point
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.430
of being drunk it can be you know
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.350
arguably leading you away from
00:24:57.360 --> 00:24:59.669
enlightenment. leading you away from
00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:01.190
clarity,
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.950
your ability to see reality.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.909
But I mean, accidentally taking a sip of
00:25:07.919 --> 00:25:10.630
some some fruit juice that went bad or
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.630
taking a spoonful of some medicine that
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.750
turns out having alcohol in it. I mean,
00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:18.149
to say that that's immoral just because
00:25:18.159 --> 00:25:20.149
it falls under the precept would be kind
00:25:20.159 --> 00:25:24.710
of like dogmatic in my opinion.
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.990
just kind of adherence to morality and
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.750
observances
00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:32.549
sila paramasa which is considered to be
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.510
not a good thing in Buddhism.
00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:41.430
So Buddhism's precepts have some
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.070
natural law and also they've got like
00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:46.230
ancient Indian
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.149
aesthetic etiquette at least with regard
00:25:48.159 --> 00:25:50.390
to the rules of monastic discipline and
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.430
just ancient Indian lay etiquette for
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.470
lay people. I mean Jesus of Nazareth
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.549
apparently drank wine.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.269
He was uh what a Nazarene but not a
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.630
Nazerite or is it the other way around?
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:08.230
I mean, it's one of those. I think it's
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.710
the Nazerites like Samson. They're not
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:11.750
supposed to cut their hair. They're not
00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:13.510
allowed to eat meat or drink alcohol.
00:26:13.520 --> 00:26:15.510
That kind of stuff,
00:26:15.520 --> 00:26:17.909
but I don't think Jesus is one of those.
00:26:17.919 --> 00:26:19.909
So, he drank wine. I mean, he he
00:26:19.919 --> 00:26:21.510
miraculously created wine. That's one of
00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:23.430
his first miracles, I think, was making
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:24.950
wine,
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.830
but it's not necessarily immoral.
00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:31.029
I mean, not from a like a natural law
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.029
point of view.
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.149
So Buddhism, Buddhism's precepts stand
00:26:36.159 --> 00:26:38.310
in relation to natural law. It's more
00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:40.390
the whole Buddhist concept of ethics.
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.190
Precepts are just kind of like this
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.710
superficial
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.510
institution that lends stability to the
00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:49.990
system, helps to stabilize society, that
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.590
kind of stuff. And they to have, you
00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:55.590
know, they are conditioned by natural
00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:58.310
law. They're conditioned by the Buddhist
00:26:58.320 --> 00:27:01.190
interpretation of how karma works. you
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.830
know what what brings you closer to
00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:05.190
enlightenment and which takes you
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.390
farther away from it. But Buddhism's
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.549
precepts it is a combination of
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:16.070
you know like conventional morality like
00:27:16.080 --> 00:27:19.350
cultural morality and also the Buddhist
00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:22.630
idea of how morals works, how ethics
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.110
works.
00:27:25.120 --> 00:27:27.590
But the Buddhist idea of ethics, it
00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:30.470
would be much closer to natural law than
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.510
just precepts.
00:27:33.520 --> 00:27:35.029
And there's somebody at the door. And I
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.669
hope my woman hears the doorbell ringing
00:27:37.679 --> 00:27:39.110
cuz I don't want to interrupt this
00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:43.110
video, if you will. But if the doorbell
00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:44.789
rings again, I may have to holler really
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.549
loud to get my woman's attention.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:50.549
So,
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.830
next question is from Siovak and Cipad
00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:56.230
Zidana. And I'm talking a little quieter
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.789
just to see if someone's answering the
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.070
door. Okay, I guess somebody is.
00:28:02.080 --> 00:28:06.310
Siovakad Zidana says, "Are you on the
00:28:06.320 --> 00:28:08.710
side of a future restoration of a
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:12.389
Christian West or restoration of a pagan
00:28:12.399 --> 00:28:16.310
west?" And I really don't think that I
00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.990
think that's kind of a false dichotomy.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.789
I really not wholly behind either one.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.510
I mean, a restoration of a Christian
00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:28.389
West, it might be more realistic than
00:28:28.399 --> 00:28:30.389
trying to bring back classical or
00:28:30.399 --> 00:28:33.669
Germanic paganism in the West.
00:28:33.679 --> 00:28:35.990
Classical and Germanic paganism are
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.950
pretty much dead. that most of the
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.590
people that are trying to restore it or
00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:44.230
revive it are essentially laring.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:45.190
They're I mean they're they're
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.430
essentially following a kind of replica.
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:48.870
You know, it's not this unbroken
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.269
lineage. A lot of it is just conjecture
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:53.029
as to what it was really like and so
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:57.430
forth. So,
00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:59.830
uh Christianity on the other hand, I
00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:02.310
mean it's it's run its course. you know,
00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:04.389
it's kind of in the same situation that
00:29:04.399 --> 00:29:07.669
classical paganism is was in in the
00:29:07.679 --> 00:29:09.909
Roman Empire when Christianity was taken
00:29:09.919 --> 00:29:13.909
over that to a large degree like secular
00:29:13.919 --> 00:29:16.230
scientism has already replaced
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.950
Christianity even in the hearts of most
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:21.190
Christians with regard to how to explain
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.789
reality.
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:24.710
So you've got devout Christians who
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.230
nevertheless
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.870
defer to science with regard to
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.269
explaining how the universe works. They
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:33.029
might say that God created it in the
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.190
beginning, but God created it in
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.750
accordance with these scientific laws
00:29:37.760 --> 00:29:40.230
and so forth.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.909
So,
00:29:41.919 --> 00:29:44.950
um I'm really not on either side. I
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.350
don't have a dog in this fight because
00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:51.110
I'm not a Christian or a pagan really.
00:29:51.120 --> 00:29:54.870
Um, I mean, ideally, I used to I've I've
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.909
often considered that I think it would
00:29:57.919 --> 00:30:01.430
be much nicer from my point of view if
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.230
Julian the Apostate hadn't died in
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:09.990
Persia and that um a kind of revised neo
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.909
neoplatanism
00:30:11.919 --> 00:30:14.149
had become like the official religion of
00:30:14.159 --> 00:30:16.310
the of the Roman Empire and had like
00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:18.549
somehow outco competed Christianity.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.590
Although that's kind of a pipe dream, I
00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:23.430
guess. I mean, obviously it didn't
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.909
happen.
00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:31.510
But I mean, I would rather see the West,
00:30:31.520 --> 00:30:33.990
like America especially,
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.590
go back to being strongly Christian,
00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:40.149
um, than just see it just degenerate,
00:30:40.159 --> 00:30:43.029
just fragment and collapse, maybe being
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.310
taken over by Islam or something. or or
00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:48.789
worse than Islam would just be like
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.269
neomarxism.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.430
So
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:56.950
I think that a restoration of a
00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:58.710
Christian west would be more realistic
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.750
than a restoration of a pagan west. And
00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:03.750
I do think that the restoration of a
00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:07.110
Christian west um you know it might be
00:31:07.120 --> 00:31:08.470
worth it even though I'm not a
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.029
Christian. I might be willing to take
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.230
the hit for the sake of saving western
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.510
civilization from its its imminent
00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:20.070
decline and fall. I mean the decline is
00:31:20.080 --> 00:31:25.350
already in progress. It seems like
00:31:25.360 --> 00:31:27.830
I mean in uh Gibbons's decline and fall
00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:30.230
of the Roman Empire I think he has the
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.789
emperor Kimotus you know the son of
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:34.870
Marcus Aurelius at least the legal son
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.830
of Marcus Aurelius was the person who
00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:40.630
started the decline and I mean the Roman
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:42.149
Empire lasted for hundreds of years
00:31:42.159 --> 00:31:46.789
after that.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.909
Um, but I think possibly preferable to
00:31:49.919 --> 00:31:51.830
either
00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:53.509
the restoration of a Christian west or
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.350
the restoration of a pagan west would be
00:31:55.360 --> 00:31:59.509
something new and better in the future.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.669
So, it wouldn't be a restoration. It
00:32:01.679 --> 00:32:04.549
would just be the new establishment of
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.830
some new spiritual order possibly deeply
00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:11.430
conditioned by Buddhism. Although
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:13.110
just being realistic, going with
00:32:13.120 --> 00:32:15.190
political realities, you couldn't really
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:18.789
have the like the uncompromising
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:23.909
pacifism and nonviolence of Buddhism in
00:32:23.919 --> 00:32:25.830
uh especially in like a world
00:32:25.840 --> 00:32:27.990
superpower.
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:29.909
I guess you just have to renounce the
00:32:29.919 --> 00:32:32.389
the military powers or superpowers or
00:32:32.399 --> 00:32:35.350
anything like that if people became
00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:37.909
Buddhist enough. But even Buddhist
00:32:37.919 --> 00:32:39.509
countries still have armies and so
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:42.230
forth. I mean, Burma's arguably the most
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.269
Buddhist country on the planet, and it's
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.669
been run by a military dictatorship for
00:32:47.679 --> 00:32:50.789
decades.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.789
It's kind of like the mafia is Catholic.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.750
It's kind of that kind of deal.
00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:57.909
So,
00:32:57.919 --> 00:33:00.310
yeah. I mean, like I keep saying, I've
00:33:00.320 --> 00:33:02.149
said this several times on these Q&A
00:33:02.159 --> 00:33:05.590
videos that it's hard to say what the
00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:08.710
next big spiritual system, what the next
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.029
big paradigm shift is going to be based
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.909
on. that I mean even if science finally
00:33:15.919 --> 00:33:18.149
comes to the conclusion that the
00:33:18.159 --> 00:33:20.470
material world is just an outward
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.029
reflection of our own mental states or
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.269
that energy and consciousness are
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:28.470
ultimately the same then I mean that in
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.950
itself could just be a huge capernican
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.950
revolution uh which would result in uh a
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:37.830
large shift in the way people look at
00:33:37.840 --> 00:33:39.590
reality
00:33:39.600 --> 00:33:41.029
and then you might even have sort of
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.990
like a a kind of dowoist physics or
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.870
something becomes like the oracle or
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:50.389
like I was saying not too long ago just
00:33:50.399 --> 00:33:54.149
virtually omnisient computers like AI
00:33:54.159 --> 00:33:56.070
might become the new religion. You know,
00:33:56.080 --> 00:33:57.990
like Brian Aldis in some of his science
00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.750
fiction novels or his science fiction
00:33:59.760 --> 00:34:01.990
short stories especially, he had this
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.389
idea that computers will become
00:34:04.399 --> 00:34:06.630
functionally omnisient, at least
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.669
omnisient enough to satisfy humans and
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.349
that people will just start going to AI
00:34:13.359 --> 00:34:15.589
as a kind of oracle
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.190
and that could start a whole new
00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:20.550
religious system without even the need
00:34:20.560 --> 00:34:22.950
of some charismatic
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.109
sage or
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.750
spiritual spiritual leader
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:34.790
or charismatic warlord.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:36.629
So yeah, that was kind of a trick
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.310
question because I really am not on
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.230
neither side and I think I should just
00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:42.310
move on to see action cadet's next
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.950
question
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.750
which is as follows.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.430
Sio action sepat zera says in Majimanica
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.629
13 the Buddha claims that all warfare
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:57.109
and conflict between individuals has
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.310
sensuality as their true motivation. Do
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.790
you agree with this? I didn't believe it
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:04.870
at first but thinking about it makes
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.150
sense since we are often not even aware
00:35:08.160 --> 00:35:10.470
why we do certain things and our own
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.349
hidden inner motivation. So the question
00:35:13.359 --> 00:35:17.349
is, I mean, do I agree with the the 13th
00:35:17.359 --> 00:35:20.950
suta of the Majimminaya that warfare and
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.230
conflict between individuals always has
00:35:24.240 --> 00:35:27.270
sensuality as its true motivation? It
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:28.950
depends on how you look at it, I guess.
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.750
I mean, he was was it Freud that came up
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.349
with the pleasure principle that said
00:35:33.359 --> 00:35:35.750
that all of our motivation, you know,
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.910
everything we do is for the purpose of
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.550
increasing our pleasure or just
00:35:40.560 --> 00:35:42.950
decreasing our displeasure.
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.589
So, if if that's the case, then it would
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:48.950
all boil down to that regardless of what
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.790
you know the more superficial reasons
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.109
are. But if you want to go with you you
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.670
want to set aside the pleasure principle
00:35:55.680 --> 00:35:59.430
and just deal with I mean some some
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:00.950
nations
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.630
you know like the Roman Empire to some
00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:04.230
degree. It was it was like it was just
00:36:04.240 --> 00:36:07.109
kind of built in just expansionism
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:08.950
was just built into the system for a
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:12.069
long time and it was just
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:18.069
what you do or like crusades where it's
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:19.589
um
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:23.190
supposedly a religious war. I mean if it
00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:24.870
there's a religious war and there have
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.030
been genuine religious wars. It's not
00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:30.069
all economics all desire for money and
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.069
territory and all that. I mean that's
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:36.150
usually a major factor but still let's
00:36:36.160 --> 00:36:37.829
for the sake of argument let's say that
00:36:37.839 --> 00:36:39.750
there really have been religious wars
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.150
where people are just fighting because
00:36:42.160 --> 00:36:44.069
our religion is right their religion is
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.829
wrong and they're evil and we need to
00:36:45.839 --> 00:36:50.710
defeat them and I mean that is a major
00:36:50.720 --> 00:36:53.750
like motivation for people fighting in
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.630
religious wars anyway
00:36:56.640 --> 00:37:00.069
then
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:02.870
how that would fit into the pleasure
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.030
principle sensuality
00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:08.630
as the the suta has it or as Sioak and
00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:13.589
Sipad Zuna's translation has it
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:17.670
then it becomes more subtle it's like
00:37:17.680 --> 00:37:19.430
I mean to where are you going to draw
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.470
the line that you just religious
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:23.990
fanaticism
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.790
and intolerance of other people's
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:29.829
beliefs I mean to what degree does that
00:37:29.839 --> 00:37:32.630
have roots and sensuality. I mean, deep
00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:34.069
down, you could say it's kind of like
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.790
their own deep down insecurity about
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:38.550
whether their religion is really true.
00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:41.349
And so, they want to just abolish anyone
00:37:41.359 --> 00:37:43.510
who disagrees with them. Just kind of
00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:45.349
abolish anyone questioning their point
00:37:45.359 --> 00:37:47.670
of view. So, it makes them feel more
00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:50.470
like secure emotionally, this kind of
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.710
stuff. You can take it down to that
00:37:52.720 --> 00:37:55.109
level. You can take anything down to
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:57.349
that level where it's, you know, they're
00:37:57.359 --> 00:37:58.630
just doing it for their own
00:37:58.640 --> 00:38:00.150
satisfaction. And whether you want to
00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:02.870
call that sensuality or not, I don't
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.030
know. But just if you just go with
00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:08.950
sensuality like just an overt desire for
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:12.470
pleasure, you know, women, more money
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:14.310
than the stuff that money can buy, which
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.430
includes women, then not all warfare and
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:21.589
conflict between individuals has that as
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:23.990
its true motivation. I mean, some of
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.870
it's just hate. But then it's like the
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.790
hate, you can you could take that down a
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.630
notch and it's they want the
00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:32.390
satisfaction of seeing their enemies
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:33.990
destroyed, which you could say is a kind
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.550
of sensuality.
00:38:36.560 --> 00:38:39.190
So if you're going to deal if you're
00:38:39.200 --> 00:38:41.109
going to interpret sensuality as any
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.310
kind of like emotional satisfaction,
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:46.069
then yeah, you could just that could be
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:47.990
the lowest common denominator. You could
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.390
just boil it all down to that. But if
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.630
you're talking about
00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:55.349
like
00:38:55.359 --> 00:38:56.870
I mean you could you could let's say
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.150
economic interests could be put under
00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:05.109
the the category of sensuality but still
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.390
some conflict is not necessarily
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:12.310
motivated by a desire for pleasure
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:14.870
unless it's just like the em emotional
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:19.990
satisfaction of getting what you want.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:21.910
So, I don't fully agree with it unless
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.150
you want to just boil it down to like
00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:25.990
Freud's pleasure principle or whoever
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.670
came up with it. Whoever came up with
00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:29.910
the pleasure principle,
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.470
then technically it'd be true, I guess.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:33.990
Then everything we do, not just
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.870
conflict, but everything else would have
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.230
sensuality as its true motivation.
00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:42.550
So why even just specify warfare and
00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:45.990
conflict? Just say everything.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.470
But if everything isn't motivated by
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:50.950
sensuality, then warfare and conflict in
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:54.069
my opinion are not exclusively motivated
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.470
by sensuality.
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.069
And I'm just going to move on to Seova
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.870
Cipat Zidan's next question, which is
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:02.710
this is an easy one. I'm not sure why he
00:40:02.720 --> 00:40:06.790
asked this question. He said,
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.990
well, first of all, he he has this uh
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.550
like a screenshot of some post on social
00:40:14.560 --> 00:40:17.349
media, and it's the post says, "They
00:40:17.359 --> 00:40:20.310
offered you $80 an hour to clean the
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.910
cemetery alone 1000 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:26.790
y'all taking the job?" question mark.
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:29.270
And then se of action cadina says, would
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:32.870
you take the job and would be the least
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.950
amount it would take to convince you?
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.470
What would be the least amount it would
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.710
take to convince you? Theoretically, it
00:40:38.720 --> 00:40:40.630
is 30 minutes away from the nearest
00:40:40.640 --> 00:40:42.710
building with people living there and
00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:45.829
you can't take weapons.
00:40:45.839 --> 00:40:48.470
Well, first of all, I mean,
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:50.069
it would depend on the cemetery, I
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:51.829
guess. I mean, if there's like, you
00:40:51.839 --> 00:40:53.990
know, junkies and gang members hanging
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.589
out there, then I mean, I wouldn't
00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.190
wouldn't take the job regardless of what
00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:00.630
they're offering. I mean, if if it was
00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:03.990
like obviously physically dangerous to
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.470
work there just because of, you know,
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.589
criminals hanging out there,
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:12.309
it would just pretty obviously, you
00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:15.990
know, harass me at at least then, yeah,
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.470
I mean, it it' just be a non-starter.
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.309
But if it's just a cemetery,
00:41:22.319 --> 00:41:25.430
you know, just a cemetery,
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.390
then yeah, I mean, why not take the job?
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.589
$80 an hour. Let's see if it's $80 an
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.870
hour and 10 to 5 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m.
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.990
That's 7 hours. So that's $80 per hour
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.990
at 7 hours per night. And let's say it's
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.309
a five day week. Then that's that adds
00:41:42.319 --> 00:41:44.870
up to $145,600
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.589
a year. That's a six-figure income for
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:50.470
cleaning a cemetery. And cemeteries in
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:52.630
the West, like in America, they're like
00:41:52.640 --> 00:41:56.309
parks, you know? They're pretty. There's
00:41:56.319 --> 00:41:58.230
flowers and stuff. It's it's it's not
00:41:58.240 --> 00:42:01.349
bad. But as a monk, I used to live in
00:42:01.359 --> 00:42:03.109
cemeteries. I would spend the night in
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:04.950
cemeteries.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.589
This I mean, as a Buddhist practice, and
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:09.750
the cemeteries in Burma, you there's
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.630
like human bones lying around, you know?
00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:15.430
It's it's like jungly,
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.270
you know, there's like not just human
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.910
bones, but there's like centipedes and
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.990
scorpions and snakes and that kind of
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.190
stuff. But I mean, as a monk, I sp I
00:42:25.200 --> 00:42:27.750
stayed there for free. I chose I just
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.950
preferred sometimes to stay in a
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.510
cemetery like like whenever I went uh in
00:42:33.520 --> 00:42:36.150
the the vicinity of the town of Keni in
00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:37.910
northwestern Burma, there was this
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.349
cemetery there. It was a really good
00:42:39.359 --> 00:42:41.349
cemetery. It had like this big pavilion
00:42:41.359 --> 00:42:44.550
there where you could stay and and um
00:42:44.560 --> 00:42:46.150
you know there was like human bones
00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:48.150
lying around.
00:42:48.160 --> 00:42:51.109
One time there was like the the the face
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.589
part of a skull just like the front part
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.069
of a a skull just lying face up on the
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:58.309
ground at this place. I think it was
00:42:58.319 --> 00:42:59.750
outside the cemetery actually. It was
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:03.910
like on the road maybe 100 yards away.
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.710
And I'm like that doesn't bother me. I'm
00:43:06.720 --> 00:43:10.630
not particularly afraid of ghosts.
00:43:10.640 --> 00:43:13.910
So yeah, I take the job easily. I mean,
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.470
I don't like working nights.
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.430
You know, it's like what is it? Working
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.670
until 5 in the morning. I mean, that
00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:23.109
would kind of suck. I mean, it's kind of
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:27.190
late. Second shift I prefer, but I mean
00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:28.950
going to work at 10 p.m. is kind of
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.750
pushing it, but for 145,000 bucks a
00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:34.230
year, obviously
00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:35.829
I mean it would be a heck of a lot more
00:43:35.839 --> 00:43:39.510
than I'm making now.
00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:42.390
So I'm not sure why Seal of Action Cad
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:43.750
asked me this question. I mean
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:45.589
personally I'd take the job for half as
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.510
much. Half that pay would still be
00:43:49.520 --> 00:43:51.190
I mean you're just cleaning a cemetery.
00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:53.190
I mean, cemeteries don't tend to be all
00:43:53.200 --> 00:43:54.710
that dirty, especially in the West that
00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:57.510
look like golf courses or parks. What
00:43:57.520 --> 00:43:59.430
are you going to do? Just picking up
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:02.950
wilted flowers, picking up hankies that
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.230
people have thrown to the ground.
00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:07.829
But again, I mean, if you've got like
00:44:07.839 --> 00:44:10.230
gang members and and just like homeless
00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:13.270
crazy drug addicts and so forth just
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.349
like haunting the place, that would be
00:44:15.359 --> 00:44:20.390
worse than ghosts.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.550
Ah, but if it's 30 minutes away from the
00:44:22.560 --> 00:44:24.309
nearest building, then it'd be like a 30
00:44:24.319 --> 00:44:27.430
minute drive to work.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:30.309
So, there's that, too. But still, for 80
00:44:30.319 --> 00:44:32.150
bucks an hour, yeah, that would be a
00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:35.990
bargain. I'd go for it easily.
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.270
And I'm just going to move on. Next
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.630
question. This is from PSA.
00:44:40.640 --> 00:44:42.630
And PSA says, "When you were a monk,
00:44:42.640 --> 00:44:45.270
which of the 227 precepts did you find
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.430
most difficult to observe and why?" So
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:50.630
by by specifying 227 precepts, he's
00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:52.870
referring to the potty mocha rules. I
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:54.790
mean there's most of the rules of
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.150
monastic discipline are not in the 227
00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:00.550
rules of the pty mocha. Most people
00:45:00.560 --> 00:45:02.390
don't know this. Even some teachers of
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.390
Buddhism don't know this that I've
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:06.630
calculated probably there between like
00:45:06.640 --> 00:45:08.790
two and 3,000 rules of monastic
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:11.270
discipline altogether. Most of which lie
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:16.150
beyond the the limits of the py mocha.
00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:17.910
But let's just keep it down to the potty
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:20.630
mocha the 227 rules. The most difficult
00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:23.910
to observe of those rules. When I was
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:25.910
when I was a young monk, young, dumb,
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.750
and full of precious bodily fluids, then
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.670
it would be like songa number one was
00:45:33.680 --> 00:45:37.430
difficult, which is not having orgasms
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:41.829
on purpose because when you're young and
00:45:41.839 --> 00:45:44.150
just come from like an oversexed family
00:45:44.160 --> 00:45:47.190
anyway, it's it's like the hormones
00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:49.589
reach this like a breaking point where
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:51.990
you're just I mean, you can just be like
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.870
wanting to just cry and howl like a dog.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:57.430
Beat your head against the wall.
00:45:57.440 --> 00:45:59.190
Fortunately for me, about every two
00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:01.910
weeks, I just automatically have like a
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.630
a pornographic dream. And when I was in
00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:06.870
my early 40s and stopped having those, I
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:11.990
I sincerely miss them.
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.150
But yeah, that was that was like the
00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:17.750
biggest challenge. The the the sorest
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.030
trial and ordeal for me was just being
00:46:21.040 --> 00:46:22.550
celibate even to the point of not
00:46:22.560 --> 00:46:25.270
spanking the puppy. That was very
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:27.589
difficult.
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.069
There are other rules like minor rules
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.790
that aren't in this potty mocha that I
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.670
mean it's just easy to break them. but
00:46:35.680 --> 00:46:37.430
of the podimoka rules. I mean, that was
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.349
like the sorest trial. And if you break
00:46:39.359 --> 00:46:41.030
that rule, you've got to do penance for
00:46:41.040 --> 00:46:43.430
6 days and six nights, go through this
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:46.470
very inconvenient reinstatement ceremony
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.190
with at least 20 monks present, and it's
00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:51.990
just a pain in the neck. So, yeah, that
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:55.109
was the most difficult for me.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:58.150
So, let's just move on to PSA's next
00:46:58.160 --> 00:47:01.910
question.
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:03.829
Uh he says, "You've mentioned briefly
00:47:03.839 --> 00:47:06.870
here and there that you have experience
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.829
at Zen monasteries, but I wonder if you
00:47:09.839 --> 00:47:12.390
could elaborate in more detail how the
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.349
whole thing was and was it Japanese,
00:47:15.359 --> 00:47:19.510
Korean, Vietnamese, or Chinese Zen?"
00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:21.190
Well, when I was looking for a monastery
00:47:21.200 --> 00:47:23.589
at which to be ordained, at first I was
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:25.910
leaning towards Zen. You know, I just
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:29.030
had more exposure to Zen Buddhism. I
00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:32.390
like the idea of, you know, the the
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.829
mysterious men dressed in black talking
00:47:35.839 --> 00:47:37.670
in riddles and hitting each other with
00:47:37.680 --> 00:47:41.190
sticks, you know, it just it appealed to
00:47:41.200 --> 00:47:42.870
me.
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.990
Then I tried two monasteries. It's like
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:48.870
I mean in the place where I was living
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:51.430
at the time, Aberdeene, Washington or at
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:54.390
least Pacific Northwest,
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:56.790
I I grew up in Aberdine, Washington,
00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.630
home of Nirvana, Kurt Coobe, and all
00:47:58.640 --> 00:48:00.390
that.
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:01.750
And I mean, there's no Buddhist
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:03.750
monasteries around there. There was some
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.630
rumor of a Buddhist monastery in the San
00:48:06.640 --> 00:48:10.630
Juan Islands, but I think it was like it
00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:12.710
wasn't Terravada. I don't think it was
00:48:12.720 --> 00:48:16.150
Zen. was like, you know, Nichi Ren or
00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:18.309
something.
00:48:18.319 --> 00:48:19.829
So,
00:48:19.839 --> 00:48:25.030
um, I went to a Zen priaryy
00:48:25.040 --> 00:48:28.230
in Portland, Oregon,
00:48:28.240 --> 00:48:30.309
and told him I wanted to be ordained as
00:48:30.319 --> 00:48:34.390
a monk. And he presented me with this,
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:37.109
it was like a directory of Buddhist
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.510
organizations in America. And I just
00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:41.190
wrote down the name and address of any
00:48:41.200 --> 00:48:44.790
place that wasn't obviously
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.510
not a monastery. You know, it some of it
00:48:47.520 --> 00:48:49.510
I didn't know what it was, but it might
00:48:49.520 --> 00:48:51.510
be a monastery. So, I wrote down like 20
00:48:51.520 --> 00:48:53.349
names and addresses and just sent out
00:48:53.359 --> 00:48:55.750
this letter, you know, and stating my
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.150
intention of becoming a monk. And it
00:48:58.160 --> 00:48:59.430
turns out most of the places weren't
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.030
even monasteries. Um, I got two letters
00:49:03.040 --> 00:49:05.910
back from actual monasteries. One was
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:07.750
the the name in the directory was
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.390
Tonpulu Seyapda. Even the word seiata
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:12.069
was spelled wrong. I had no idea what a
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:16.069
Tonulu Seat Dao was, but it might have
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.309
been a a monastery. So I sent a letter.
00:49:18.319 --> 00:49:21.030
And then I also got a letter from Shasta
00:49:21.040 --> 00:49:23.109
Abby in Northern California, which is a
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:26.630
Zen place. So I checked out both places.
00:49:26.640 --> 00:49:29.750
and Shasta Abbey. I think it started off
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.150
in a more Japanese tradition, but then
00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:36.069
it was becoming kind of more
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:39.510
more Chinese in its orientation. The the
00:49:39.520 --> 00:49:43.030
Abbott or Abbis was this large English
00:49:43.040 --> 00:49:45.349
woman. I don't I don't remember her
00:49:45.359 --> 00:49:49.910
name. I met her once. Um and they were
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:52.790
sort of reforming a little bit. It was
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:54.870
at first it was allowable for like the
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:57.829
ordained priests and nuns to get married
00:49:57.839 --> 00:50:00.549
and then they they kind of stopped that
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:04.230
so that the the Roshi at the the the
00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:06.390
priaryy in Portland had kind of
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:08.230
distanced himself from Shast Abby. He
00:50:08.240 --> 00:50:10.230
was ordained there. He and his wife were
00:50:10.240 --> 00:50:12.069
ordained there but then when they were
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:14.470
forbidding marriage he said well we were
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.069
already committed to each other so they
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:19.109
just kind of went their own way. But I I
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:21.030
went to Shasta Abbey for like an
00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:23.510
introductory retreat, just kind of test
00:50:23.520 --> 00:50:27.910
the waters. And I mean, it was it was
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.069
nothing like
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:31.990
men dressed in black standing around
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.349
talking in riddles and hitting each
00:50:33.359 --> 00:50:34.710
other with sticks. Nobody hit anybody
00:50:34.720 --> 00:50:37.030
with sticks, you know? That's it was
00:50:37.040 --> 00:50:38.950
kind of feminizing. You had a female
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:42.069
abbot, an abbus running the place, a nun
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:45.030
running the place, and lots of bowing
00:50:45.040 --> 00:50:47.750
and chanting, lots of ceremonies. I
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:49.589
mean, you'd bow to a door before going
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:51.670
through the doorway. You know, you'd bow
00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:53.750
to the room upon entering the door,
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.230
entering the room. Lots and lots of
00:50:56.240 --> 00:51:00.470
chanting. And I just was not
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.549
really I did not really wasn't attracted
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:04.710
to that. Also, there was a lot of pure
00:51:04.720 --> 00:51:07.829
land stuff that was kind of conflated
00:51:07.839 --> 00:51:10.390
with Zen there. And I've never had any
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:13.910
use for pure land Buddhism.
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.910
So, and and then also they ran a store,
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:19.349
you know, they're selling like candles
00:51:19.359 --> 00:51:21.510
and Buddhist Buddha statues and little
00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:23.510
gongs and incense and that kind of
00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:26.150
stuff. And you'd have monks and nuns
00:51:26.160 --> 00:51:28.630
like getting out of their gray zen
00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:31.670
pajamas and putting on regular layman's
00:51:31.680 --> 00:51:35.349
clothing and driving to town in a car,
00:51:35.359 --> 00:51:37.270
you know, to buy groceries for the
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:40.390
monastery, this kind of stuff. So I I
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.870
mean that really was a far cry from what
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.069
you read about Zen monasteries in books.
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:49.430
You know the men dressed in black
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:50.630
talking in riddles hitting each other
00:51:50.640 --> 00:51:54.069
with sticks. So then I went to Tomulu
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.790
Seepda or Tomulu Kaba a monastery in
00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:58.710
Boulder Creek, California. And it was
00:51:58.720 --> 00:52:02.309
like four Burmese monks
00:52:02.319 --> 00:52:04.549
only, let's see, two of whom spoke
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.510
fluent English. The abbott spoke almost
00:52:07.520 --> 00:52:09.910
no English at all. And they're just
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:13.270
living a quiet life, you know, just not
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:14.790
hand. Well, I mean, they handled money,
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:17.030
but not ostentatiously. You know, I
00:52:17.040 --> 00:52:18.549
didn't see them handling money at the
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:20.470
time. You know, they didn't drive cars,
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:21.829
you know, they didn't put on layman's
00:52:21.839 --> 00:52:23.829
clothing. They weren't running a store.
00:52:23.839 --> 00:52:26.790
You know, they were just being monks.
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:29.430
And so comparing the terravada, the
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:32.150
Burmese terraata place with this kind of
00:52:32.160 --> 00:52:34.870
westernized Japanese maybe slightly
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.910
Chinese zen place, I mean it was just
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:42.309
the difference was very stark and it was
00:52:42.319 --> 00:52:44.230
fairly clear to me that the terravada
00:52:44.240 --> 00:52:45.750
place was coming closer to what the
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:49.829
Buddha actually taught.
00:52:49.839 --> 00:52:51.589
So,
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.630
I guess that's fairly elaborate with
00:52:54.640 --> 00:52:57.910
regard to uh my details, how the whole
00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.589
thing was.
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.190
Um,
00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:02.790
so I think I'm just going to move on to
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.510
PSA's third question.
00:53:05.520 --> 00:53:08.790
He says, "You're approaching 200 Q&As's.
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:11.430
That's amazing. Are you planning a big
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:13.829
party or special event for that episode?
00:53:13.839 --> 00:53:16.630
People have been kind of pestering me a
00:53:16.640 --> 00:53:18.950
little bit to have another live stream
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.270
for episode 200. I did a live stream for
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:25.030
episode 100. And I'm game, I guess. It's
00:53:25.040 --> 00:53:27.030
just the thing is I'm not very good at
00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:29.349
live streams. Not because I'm not good
00:53:29.359 --> 00:53:31.430
at being spontaneous. I mean, these are
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.309
pre-recorded, but all done in one take.
00:53:34.319 --> 00:53:35.589
You know, there's not a lot of jump
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:37.910
cuts.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.870
So, yeah, I may do a live stream. Um,
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:42.790
but that's about it. The thing is with
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:44.150
the live streams, I just don't have
00:53:44.160 --> 00:53:45.829
enough experience with it because I have
00:53:45.839 --> 00:53:48.309
only done it like two or three times so
00:53:48.319 --> 00:53:50.470
that it's hard to tell if if I'm even
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:53.109
live. Like I mentioned, the very first
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:56.390
time I did a a live stream Q&A, I think
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:58.790
it was a Q&A. I mean, it looked like I
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.910
wasn't even wasn't even online. And I
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.430
just walked out of the room to try and
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.589
get my woman to help me figure out what
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:06.950
was going on. She said, "You're you're
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.750
on. You just left the room." So, I came
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:12.870
back and continued the Q&A.
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:14.950
So, or whatever it was, continued the
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.750
video. But yeah, it's like probably a
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:19.430
live stream would be about the most you
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.430
can hope for in that regard. And I'm
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.829
moving on to the next question. This is
00:54:23.839 --> 00:54:25.990
from Cyrus Frame, one of the few people
00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.109
that asks questions on Rumble.
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:32.470
And Cyrus Frame says, "Could it be said
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:35.190
that volition is the will to carve the
00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:37.829
uncarved block?"
00:54:37.839 --> 00:54:40.710
Well,
00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:42.710
golly.
00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:46.950
I mean, it could be said, I guess,
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:48.790
but I mean, I really don't see it that
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:50.470
way so much. I mean, in a way, you could
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:52.309
say that volition is the will to carve
00:54:52.319 --> 00:54:55.270
the uncarved block, but let's say
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:57.430
that you've got the uncarved block of
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.870
stone, which, as I keep saying, contains
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:04.230
within it in potential virtual form
00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:08.630
every possible statue. So the forms,
00:55:08.640 --> 00:55:11.750
those virtual forms would be perceptions
00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:14.710
and the movement of those forms, not
00:55:14.720 --> 00:55:17.030
just the movement, but whatever kind of
00:55:17.040 --> 00:55:19.829
continued pattern is keeping that
00:55:19.839 --> 00:55:21.829
statue, you know, in a state of
00:55:21.839 --> 00:55:25.270
coherence as it moves, you know, it goes
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:27.030
through its actions of brushing its
00:55:27.040 --> 00:55:29.510
teeth or whatever,
00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:32.230
then that would be volition.
00:55:32.240 --> 00:55:33.829
So
00:55:33.839 --> 00:55:38.309
um I mean volition is karma and it's
00:55:38.319 --> 00:55:40.470
interesting there there was a book it's
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:41.990
still out there I'm sure the Buddhist
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.829
Bible which was mainly oriented towards
00:55:45.839 --> 00:55:48.069
Mahayana Buddhism
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:50.549
but it had some interesting translations
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:55.109
and it translated karma as habit energy
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:56.789
and that's a good translation. I mean
00:55:56.799 --> 00:55:58.549
it's most people don't think of karma as
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.510
habit energy but I mean you think about
00:56:01.520 --> 00:56:03.430
it that is a good translation. It's
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:07.589
habit energy and so the the volition or
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:11.190
the habit energy the karma is what is
00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:14.950
keeping that virtual
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.670
like moving statue that image contained
00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:19.510
within the block of marble. what is
00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:23.190
keeping it coherent as essentially what
00:56:23.200 --> 00:56:26.150
is identified as an individual that
00:56:26.160 --> 00:56:28.150
continues to exist over time. You know,
00:56:28.160 --> 00:56:32.789
it's it's like the habitual pattern that
00:56:32.799 --> 00:56:35.670
that keeps it you know like a
00:56:35.680 --> 00:56:38.630
recognizable pattern for perception to
00:56:38.640 --> 00:56:41.109
perceive and at the same time is you
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.069
know through time. So it's volition is
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:45.829
just like the temporal aspect of
00:56:45.839 --> 00:56:48.470
perception but also there's like the
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:52.150
stability aspect of keeping that
00:56:52.160 --> 00:56:54.710
perception that even though the
00:56:54.720 --> 00:56:57.190
perception is changing keeping it the
00:56:57.200 --> 00:56:59.750
same enough that you keep perceiving it
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:01.510
as the same thing. It's not just
00:57:01.520 --> 00:57:03.430
completely changing from one moment to
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.549
the next into something unrecognizable.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:10.950
So volition or karma habit energy also
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:14.309
has that function of a kind of you know
00:57:14.319 --> 00:57:17.109
it's just momentum it's the momentum of
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:19.109
your mental states it's the momentum of
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:23.030
your perceptions so to speak
00:57:23.040 --> 00:57:25.430
just as perception is sort of like the
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:29.030
form of your vitions. There's it's like
00:57:29.040 --> 00:57:30.870
two aspects of the same thing perception
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:33.270
and valition.
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:35.990
Perception is like the the form aspect.
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:37.670
Volion is the function. Form and
00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:40.150
function,
00:57:40.160 --> 00:57:46.710
so to speak, noun and verb.
00:57:46.720 --> 00:57:49.109
So, I hope I answered that question at
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:52.150
least somewhat satisfactorily. Hope he
00:57:52.160 --> 00:57:54.950
doesn't just spit and turn off the turn
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:57.589
off the video after hearing that answer
00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:58.870
because I'm moving on to the next one
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:01.270
from Cyrus Frame.
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.589
Is mindfulness the awareness of
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:05.190
perceptions?
00:58:05.200 --> 00:58:07.990
It seems clear when noting, looking,
00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:10.549
hearing, etc., but not so clear when
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:13.190
noting thinking.
00:58:13.200 --> 00:58:14.950
H. Yeah, it's hard to note thinking.
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.430
That's one thing about noting it
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:20.069
apparently, just going with scientism,
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:22.789
it apparently uses the same centers of
00:58:22.799 --> 00:58:25.750
your brain as thinking. that noting of
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.309
the thinking and the thinking they use
00:58:28.319 --> 00:58:31.190
the same areas of your brain apparently
00:58:31.200 --> 00:58:32.710
so that you can't do both at the same
00:58:32.720 --> 00:58:35.190
time. So if you're thinking and you note
00:58:35.200 --> 00:58:37.589
the thinking, it stops the thought as a
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:39.109
general like if you're doing mahasi
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:42.069
style noting. On the other hand, you get
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:44.470
music stuck in your mind, you can note
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:45.910
it to your blue in the face and
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:47.990
sometimes that music won't stop. It's
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:49.990
like it's a different part of your brain
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.349
so that like the noting doesn't preempt
00:58:53.359 --> 00:58:56.630
it.
00:58:56.640 --> 00:58:58.150
But I wouldn't say that mindfulness is
00:58:58.160 --> 00:58:59.829
the awareness of perceptions.
00:58:59.839 --> 00:59:02.710
Mindfulness is like the simplification
00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:05.109
and minimization of perceptions. If
00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.589
you're being mindful, so you like you
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:09.270
hear the barking dog, you know, you're
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:10.950
sitting there meditating, a dog starts
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:13.750
barking outside the window, then if
00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:16.710
you're being mindful, you're being
00:59:16.720 --> 00:59:20.069
aware, you're like noting the the
00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:21.910
auditory
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:24.309
auditory perception or just the auditory
00:59:24.319 --> 00:59:28.230
sensation of hearing. You're just you're
00:59:28.240 --> 00:59:31.430
aware of hearing and and you're you're
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:34.470
like aware of like the the textures of
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:36.230
the sound, you know, when it starts,
00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:38.150
when it stops, what it sounds like, and
00:59:38.160 --> 00:59:40.710
so forth. It's just that you're not you
00:59:40.720 --> 00:59:42.870
you don't have like a running commentary
00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:44.870
about whose dog is that and they
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:46.549
shouldn't have their dog barking outside
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:49.109
my window. They should train their dog
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:51.430
better, etc., etc., blah blah blah. Next
00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:53.430
thing you know, you're thinking about
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:54.630
what you're going to have for lunch
00:59:54.640 --> 00:59:56.390
tomorrow.
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:59.829
So mindfulness is reducing perception.
00:59:59.839 --> 01:00:01.510
And when you get to the perfection of
01:00:01.520 --> 01:00:03.510
mindfulness, fourth Janna, which is
01:00:03.520 --> 01:00:06.390
considered to be perfect mindfulness,
01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:08.309
you're not thinking anything. You know,
01:00:08.319 --> 01:00:10.390
it's just like you're as close as you
01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:14.150
can get to just bare sensation or not
01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:16.630
bare sensation, but bare consciousness,
01:00:16.640 --> 01:00:18.789
pure consciousness
01:00:18.799 --> 01:00:22.230
with almost no perceptual content at
01:00:22.240 --> 01:00:25.990
all. So mindfulness is reduction of
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.990
perception not so much awareness of it.
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:30.549
I mean just by having bare awareness
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:32.150
nonjudgmental
01:00:32.160 --> 01:00:34.870
choiceless awareness like Krishna Murdy
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:38.549
talks about that I mean that reduces the
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:39.829
perceptions because you don't have like
01:00:39.839 --> 01:00:42.549
this running commentary you know your
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:44.230
your thoughts aren't hooking up in
01:00:44.240 --> 01:00:48.549
sequence.
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:50.870
Let's see mindfulness the awareness of
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:52.870
perceptions. Yeah, I mean it in a sense
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:54.630
it is the awareness of perception, but
01:00:54.640 --> 01:00:56.309
that's not how you would define it
01:00:56.319 --> 01:00:59.589
really because it's like awareness of
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.069
bare perception. You know, the simplest
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:05.270
form of perception that you can manage
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.270
until finally you get to the perfection
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:10.950
of mindfulness. You've got virtually no
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.670
perceptions at all cuz you're in fourth
01:01:13.680 --> 01:01:16.390
gen.
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.589
So mindfulness is reducing perception so
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:21.829
that you don't have all this thinking
01:01:21.839 --> 01:01:23.829
and labeling and commentary and stuff
01:01:23.839 --> 01:01:26.069
going on. At first at a beginning level
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:27.750
of mindfulness, you're still labeling.
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:29.910
You get better at mindfulness, you do
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:31.349
away with the labeling. You just direct
01:01:31.359 --> 01:01:33.109
your attention at the thing and observe
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.829
it without having to to slap a word onto
01:01:35.839 --> 01:01:37.829
it. And then when you get even better,
01:01:37.839 --> 01:01:40.630
you're you're so aware like you're
01:01:40.640 --> 01:01:42.630
you're your your mindfulness is like
01:01:42.640 --> 01:01:45.349
observing the the surface of a still
01:01:45.359 --> 01:01:48.390
pool. And if a thought even starts to
01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:52.069
arise, then you you notice the ripples
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:54.069
immediately. And it's like the noting of
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:55.829
that just causes the ripples to just
01:01:55.839 --> 01:01:57.270
fade back out again. And you're just
01:01:57.280 --> 01:02:03.510
sitting there in a state of silence.
01:02:03.520 --> 01:02:06.950
So mindfulness is the simplification of
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:10.230
perception let's say
01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:13.750
through like
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:18.470
uh what would be like intense awareness
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.030
I mean in in Burma like the warning
01:02:21.040 --> 01:02:23.430
signs you know they don't say caution or
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:28.549
warning or octung they say or in Burmese
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:31.030
which you know it's like attention
01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:36.150
So mindfulness is like attention.
01:02:36.160 --> 01:02:37.910
Okay, let's just move on to Cyrus
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:40.309
Frame's third question.
01:02:40.319 --> 01:02:44.230
He says you I'm assuming it's a he. You
01:02:44.240 --> 01:02:46.870
are not the mind. The mind is just what
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:49.430
is playing on the screen of awareness.
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:51.750
Do you think this is true? Well, you are
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:55.510
not the mind. Yeah, except um I mean if
01:02:55.520 --> 01:02:58.069
there is
01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:00.150
I mean there are certain ways where you
01:03:00.160 --> 01:03:02.789
could identify the ego with the mind. I
01:03:02.799 --> 01:03:05.430
mean obviously the ego is itself a
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:07.510
projection of mind. So the ego would be
01:03:07.520 --> 01:03:09.829
mind and that's kind of what you are
01:03:09.839 --> 01:03:12.870
because you don't really exist. So the
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:16.390
like the the illusion of you is just
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:18.309
pure mind.
01:03:18.319 --> 01:03:20.630
So set that aside. Let's just say there
01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:23.349
is no mind or there is there is no you,
01:03:23.359 --> 01:03:25.510
no self, anata.
01:03:25.520 --> 01:03:27.430
So then it would be correct. You are not
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.990
the mind. The mind is just what is
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.710
playing on the screen of awareness.
01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:34.230
Well,
01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:37.029
not really. The mind is the screen of
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:39.990
awareness and mental states might be
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:41.349
what is playing on the screen of
01:03:41.359 --> 01:03:44.630
awareness. Like in Abidama philosophy
01:03:44.640 --> 01:03:47.750
or just the five theory whatever you've
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:51.109
got mind or consciousness is different
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:53.430
from mental states you know in in
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:57.270
abidama it's cheetah is consciousness
01:03:57.280 --> 01:03:59.670
chetika is mental states which would
01:03:59.680 --> 01:04:02.710
include perceptions and vitions feelings
01:04:02.720 --> 01:04:05.829
that kind of stuff.
01:04:05.839 --> 01:04:09.510
So the mind more correctly would be
01:04:09.520 --> 01:04:12.470
consciousness itself.
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:15.670
And so what is playing on the screen of
01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:19.750
consciousness would be mental states.
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:21.270
So
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:24.950
it's some it's kind of true somewhat
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:26.870
true.
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.829
And I'm just going to see make sure that
01:04:29.839 --> 01:04:31.750
I at least kind of did some kind of
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:34.309
justice to that question. Yeah, I guess
01:04:34.319 --> 01:04:35.670
so. I'm going to move on to the next
01:04:35.680 --> 01:04:37.109
question. This is from Christian. And
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:39.750
I'm not sure if this is a like a legit
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.990
question that was expecting an answer.
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:44.710
This is from a person called Christian.
01:04:44.720 --> 01:04:47.430
Whether that's their real name or not, I
01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:50.630
don't know. But they were talking they
01:04:50.640 --> 01:04:52.549
left a comment under the previous Q&A
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:54.870
about how ridiculous it is that there is
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:57.670
even an idea of enlightenment.
01:04:57.680 --> 01:05:01.190
And I I'd point it out. I mean, it's it
01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:03.109
isn't meaningless,
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:04.870
you know, it couldn't it can be like a
01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:07.510
an enigma or paradox, but at least from
01:05:07.520 --> 01:05:09.029
a Buddhist point of view, enlightenment
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:12.309
is not meaningless.
01:05:12.319 --> 01:05:15.029
So, Christian responded with, "If you
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:16.950
search for enlightenment, aren't you
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.750
bound to attachment? Also, what does it
01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:21.990
mean to be enlightened? How do you know
01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:23.270
if you haven't achieved it?" Well,
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:24.630
that's three questions, isn't it? I
01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:26.549
wasn't expecting this.
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:28.390
I just cut and paste. I just thought it
01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:30.710
was one question.
01:05:30.720 --> 01:05:34.950
Oh, how naive I was. Okay, Christian.
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:36.789
First question. If you search for
01:05:36.799 --> 01:05:38.390
enlightenment, are you bound to
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:40.950
attachment? At first, yeah, because it's
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:43.589
it's like skillful means. I've I've
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:45.029
mentioned this before. I've written
01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:49.190
essays on this where it's like if you
01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:51.670
commit yourself to seeking enlightenment
01:05:51.680 --> 01:05:53.990
to living the holy life it's like you
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.549
reduce your desires and attachments
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:58.789
pretty much down to one. You know it's
01:05:58.799 --> 01:06:01.270
like your desire for sex, drugs and rock
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:03.349
and roll and pizza and ice cream and all
01:06:03.359 --> 01:06:05.829
that. You know you have kind of
01:06:05.839 --> 01:06:07.750
renounced those attachments but still
01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:09.430
you have this one attachment for
01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:11.829
enlightenment. But so long as you have
01:06:11.839 --> 01:06:14.309
that still have that one attachment,
01:06:14.319 --> 01:06:16.150
it's still an obstacle to enlightenment.
01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:18.150
So what happens is you try as hard as
01:06:18.160 --> 01:06:21.589
you can and you fail because you still
01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:23.349
have this one obstacle which is your
01:06:23.359 --> 01:06:25.349
desire for enlightenment. So that at
01:06:25.359 --> 01:06:28.789
some point through insight or despair or
01:06:28.799 --> 01:06:31.349
whatever it is, you eventually just let
01:06:31.359 --> 01:06:34.470
go of that last attachment. Boom, there
01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.750
you are.
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:40.549
So I mean it's common to other religious
01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:42.549
systems also this this moment of
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:45.670
surrender of just giving up um you know
01:06:45.680 --> 01:06:47.349
it's a big deal in some schools of
01:06:47.359 --> 01:06:50.789
Christianity also
01:06:50.799 --> 01:06:54.230
but you're not bound to attachment
01:06:54.240 --> 01:06:56.950
um at the moment of enlightenment you
01:06:56.960 --> 01:06:58.870
know it's like you have to let go of
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:01.109
that last attachment in order for
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:03.990
enlightenment to occur but still this
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:05.990
attachment for enlightenment serves
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:07.990
serves as kind of like a gimmick or
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:11.109
skillful means to help you like get rid
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:12.630
of these other attachments. You know,
01:07:12.640 --> 01:07:14.309
it's like all your eggs are in one
01:07:14.319 --> 01:07:16.950
basket and then you just let go of that
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:20.230
last basket of eggs, so to speak, and
01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:22.710
there you are.
01:07:22.720 --> 01:07:25.190
So, Christian, second question also,
01:07:25.200 --> 01:07:29.270
what does it mean to be enlightened?
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:31.109
Well,
01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:34.309
I suppose you I could just start off
01:07:34.319 --> 01:07:37.910
with just some of the like standard
01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:39.910
Buddhist explanations. You know, it is
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:43.109
the end of suffering, end of dooka, or
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:45.270
it is the end of greed, hate, and
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:47.510
delusion. Or if you prefer, it is the
01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:49.190
end of attraction, aversion, and
01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:52.230
semic-conscious stupidity.
01:07:52.240 --> 01:07:53.990
or
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:57.349
like what I would be inclined to say it
01:07:57.359 --> 01:08:00.870
means to be enlightened is block of
01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:02.150
marble. We're going back to the block of
01:08:02.160 --> 01:08:04.789
marble again. You got this uncarved
01:08:04.799 --> 01:08:06.549
block which contains within it all
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:09.750
possible statues and delusion and some
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.150
sora is believing that these virtual
01:08:12.160 --> 01:08:13.910
conditional statues inside the block of
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.070
marble are real. At least some of them I
01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:17.829
mean you're only aware of like a finite
01:08:17.839 --> 01:08:22.149
number of them. So enlightenment is I
01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:24.309
mean you practice
01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:27.110
dharma dharma you know you practice
01:08:27.120 --> 01:08:31.430
meditation so that um
01:08:31.440 --> 01:08:33.110
gosh
01:08:33.120 --> 01:08:35.269
I I've explained this many times I think
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:37.510
Christian might be a new viewer though
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:39.510
so let's forget the block of marble for
01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:41.910
a minute you've got consciousness is
01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.749
water mental states are waves most
01:08:45.759 --> 01:08:48.309
people like unenlightened people are
01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:50.390
completely locked in to the level of
01:08:50.400 --> 01:08:53.030
form of waves. You know, they have no
01:08:53.040 --> 01:08:56.149
concept of water really. It's just
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:58.229
waves. I like this wave. I don't like
01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:00.070
that wave. This wave is good. That wave
01:09:00.080 --> 01:09:02.309
is bad, etc., etc.
01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.189
So by practicing the holy life,
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:07.349
practicing morality, and practicing
01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:11.189
meditation, you calm the water until you
01:09:11.199 --> 01:09:14.550
get good enough at meditation that we're
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:17.349
just good enough at calming the water by
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:20.390
by any means that the waves are no
01:09:20.400 --> 01:09:22.550
longer distracting you. You can't really
01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:24.070
identify with the waves because they're
01:09:24.080 --> 01:09:26.149
not there anymore. or at least it
01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:29.990
becomes so subtle that you're able
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:33.829
through insight to go beyond the mere
01:09:33.839 --> 01:09:38.630
level of forms into just water
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:41.749
and then so that's that would be like a
01:09:41.759 --> 01:09:44.309
kind of insight and when you're
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:47.030
practicing Janna in terra Buddhism
01:09:47.040 --> 01:09:49.349
that's called temporary liberation right
01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:51.269
there it's like a it's like a temporary
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:53.910
enlightenment when you're sitting there
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:55.830
not thinking anything. So you can't be
01:09:55.840 --> 01:09:58.630
distracted by samsaric forms because you
01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:03.110
have temporarily just like subdued the
01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:05.669
samsaric forms. So you're liberated from
01:10:05.679 --> 01:10:08.550
samsaric forms temporarily while you're
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:11.750
in this johnic state. But the trick is
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:13.910
and Zen Buddhism talks about this more
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:16.550
than than terraat does as far as I know.
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.149
You've got what is called zen in the
01:10:18.159 --> 01:10:21.350
marketplace. Once you have been able to
01:10:21.360 --> 01:10:23.430
see water instead of being completely
01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:26.310
distracted by waves, then the waves can
01:10:26.320 --> 01:10:29.669
come back. And that's according to Zen
01:10:29.679 --> 01:10:32.470
Buddhism, that's a thousand times better
01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:36.790
than like enlightenment. Like sitting
01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:40.070
cross-legged on a cushion is when you're
01:10:40.080 --> 01:10:42.550
like in the marketplace and you're
01:10:42.560 --> 01:10:44.390
making noise, moving around. Everyone
01:10:44.400 --> 01:10:46.070
around you is making noise, moving
01:10:46.080 --> 01:10:48.470
around. you still
01:10:48.480 --> 01:10:52.390
are focused or like um not necessarily
01:10:52.400 --> 01:10:54.709
focused, but I mean you're you're like
01:10:54.719 --> 01:10:57.430
existing at the level of water and all
01:10:57.440 --> 01:10:59.669
these waves are just irrelevant. You
01:10:59.679 --> 01:11:02.070
know, they're still there.
01:11:02.080 --> 01:11:03.750
You know, it reminds me of the old Zen
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:06.550
saying that I've repeated several times.
01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:09.910
You know, it's like the the meditation
01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:12.310
hall can be resounding the shouts of the
01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:14.550
master and blows from his stick can be
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:17.110
falling like rain, but still the master
01:11:17.120 --> 01:11:20.390
abides in stillness and silence because
01:11:20.400 --> 01:11:22.310
he's got zen in the marketplace. He's
01:11:22.320 --> 01:11:24.709
not distracted by the forms. He's at the
01:11:24.719 --> 01:11:26.870
level of water. He's at the level of
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:29.030
uncarved block instead of all these
01:11:29.040 --> 01:11:31.189
possible like conditional virtual
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:32.870
statues.
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:35.590
So that would be what enlightenment is
01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:38.149
is you're existing at the level of
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:39.830
consciousness and not the level of
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:44.709
mental states.
01:11:44.719 --> 01:11:47.510
And I I explain it over and over again.
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:49.270
And some people will ask, you know, kind
01:11:49.280 --> 01:11:50.950
of the same question over and over again
01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:52.470
because they don't get it because it it
01:11:52.480 --> 01:11:56.070
is it takes some kind of like
01:11:56.080 --> 01:11:58.870
multi-dimensional thinking to grasp it.
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:00.070
It's like dealing with two different
01:12:00.080 --> 01:12:02.470
levels of reality simultaneously. And
01:12:02.480 --> 01:12:03.910
some people just can't deal with that.
01:12:03.920 --> 01:12:06.550
Even like intellectual people, you know,
01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:11.430
like brilliant physicists and so forth
01:12:11.440 --> 01:12:13.910
is is for some people they're just so
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.870
completely locked into an intellectual
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:18.790
perceptualbased
01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:21.189
understanding of reality that they just
01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:22.950
can't they just can't separate
01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:26.070
themselves from that.
01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:28.229
So
01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:30.070
Christian's third question, how do you
01:12:30.080 --> 01:12:32.229
know if you haven't achieved
01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:34.630
enlightenment? Well, I mean, if you're
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.550
still wallowing in some sorrow, if
01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:40.550
you're still experiencing suffering,
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:43.990
if you're still unhappy sometimes, that
01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:46.550
would be a good indication of it.
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.709
You know, if you're just raging at some
01:12:48.719 --> 01:12:50.550
old lady and kicking her dog, then
01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:51.830
that's a good sign that you're not
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:53.830
enlightened.
01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:55.830
Um,
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:58.310
but I mean it's tricky and it's it's
01:12:58.320 --> 01:13:01.669
paradoxical and enigmatic enlightenment
01:13:01.679 --> 01:13:04.790
is because of that waves coming back
01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:07.270
deal. You know, the waves can come back
01:13:07.280 --> 01:13:08.950
and you can still be enlightened even
01:13:08.960 --> 01:13:10.709
though it may look to another person.
01:13:10.719 --> 01:13:12.709
Wow, look at all that that stormy sea
01:13:12.719 --> 01:13:15.270
going on over there. So that's that's
01:13:15.280 --> 01:13:18.790
the tricky part. And some Hayana
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:20.470
Buddhists especially some Hindus
01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:22.550
probably too say that I mean everyone is
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:24.790
ultimately enlightened because the water
01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:27.110
is always there. It's just you're
01:13:27.120 --> 01:13:29.750
distracted by the the waves but the
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:31.669
water is always there just like the the
01:13:31.679 --> 01:13:33.350
essence of enlightenment is always
01:13:33.360 --> 01:13:36.229
there. I assume that's largely what
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:37.910
Mahayana Buddhists are calling Buddha
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.550
nature.
01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:42.310
I mean how far away are you from
01:13:42.320 --> 01:13:43.830
ultimate reality? I mean it's right
01:13:43.840 --> 01:13:48.630
here. We're soaking in it.
01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:50.550
So, I'm just going to move on. Next
01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:52.870
question. This also might be just like a
01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:55.189
rhetorical question.
01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:56.870
This is from Jeffrey. He says, "I like
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:59.669
to meditate with cigars." Probably not
01:13:59.679 --> 01:14:02.790
correct, but it's not really me, so why
01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:04.550
not?
01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:07.350
Well, I mean, you can meditate with
01:14:07.360 --> 01:14:11.189
cigars. Ajan man who is like the
01:14:11.199 --> 01:14:14.229
stereotypical example of an arahant in
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:17.430
Thai Buddhism. You know Ajan Cha and
01:14:17.440 --> 01:14:20.149
Ajan man. Maybe Ajan Mahabua would be
01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:24.870
like the three big like just sages of
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:29.189
modern like 20th century Thai Buddhism.
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.430
And Ajan man was a chain smoker. I
01:14:31.440 --> 01:14:33.270
assume he smoked a lot of village
01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:35.750
cigars. I don't know if they had like
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:38.870
western style cigarettes insiam 100
01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:42.550
years ago
01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:45.669
and he was is believed to have been
01:14:45.679 --> 01:14:47.510
fully enlightened
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:49.030
despite the fact that I mean if you
01:14:49.040 --> 01:14:52.470
smoke tobacco regularly that officially
01:14:52.480 --> 01:14:57.910
technically makes you a drug addict but
01:14:57.920 --> 01:14:59.669
that's just kind of a weird thing isn't
01:14:59.679 --> 01:15:01.510
it? You've got an enlightened drug
01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:04.709
addict. Well, I mean, if someone else is
01:15:04.719 --> 01:15:06.470
addicted to some substance, then that's
01:15:06.480 --> 01:15:09.510
maybe a ray of hope. Well, John Mutton
01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:12.390
was addicted to nicotine apparently.
01:15:12.400 --> 01:15:14.070
Maybe because he was enlightened, he
01:15:14.080 --> 01:15:15.430
just kind of transcended it. That was
01:15:15.440 --> 01:15:18.070
just part of the stormy sea or the sea,
01:15:18.080 --> 01:15:21.110
the waves, and he just wasn't attack. He
01:15:21.120 --> 01:15:23.590
wasn't identified with that anymore,
01:15:23.600 --> 01:15:25.189
even though his body may still have been
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.350
addicted to nicotine.
01:15:27.360 --> 01:15:29.350
So, I mean, if you can smoke a cigar
01:15:29.360 --> 01:15:31.910
mindfully, I mean, it couldn't be like
01:15:31.920 --> 01:15:33.430
just a little ritual, sort of like the
01:15:33.440 --> 01:15:35.990
Japanese tea ceremony, you know, there's
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:37.590
the ritual. You you're cutting the end
01:15:37.600 --> 01:15:39.830
of the cigar and you're mindfully
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:41.669
holding it, feeling the texture and
01:15:41.679 --> 01:15:44.229
smelling the aromomas and mindfully
01:15:44.239 --> 01:15:46.149
lighting it and watching, you're
01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:47.590
mindfully puffing. You know, you're
01:15:47.600 --> 01:15:50.310
mindful of the the muscles in your mouth
01:15:50.320 --> 01:15:51.910
as you're puffing on it and watching
01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:53.750
the, you know, the little flames
01:15:53.760 --> 01:15:55.510
shooting up as you take the puffs and
01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:56.790
all that.
01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:59.669
Mindfully inhaling, mindfully exhaling,
01:15:59.679 --> 01:16:01.669
mindfully feeling the effects of the
01:16:01.679 --> 01:16:04.550
nicotine in your system. I mean, if
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:06.950
you're doing that, that's still legit
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:09.510
meditation. If you're you're smoking the
01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:11.910
cigar mindfully.
01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:13.510
I mean, technically, you could do like
01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:14.709
mindfulness and breathing, you know,
01:16:14.719 --> 01:16:17.030
breathing in, breathing out, well,
01:16:17.040 --> 01:16:20.550
taking puffs of the the cigar, I guess.
01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:22.149
But anything you do mindfully is
01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.390
meditation. I mean you can be having sex
01:16:24.400 --> 01:16:26.390
mindfully and that's still it's it's
01:16:26.400 --> 01:16:28.709
like tantra still a kind of meditation.
01:16:28.719 --> 01:16:30.470
It may not be the ideal kind of
01:16:30.480 --> 01:16:33.910
meditation but still I mean you can you
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:36.790
inject some meditation into just about
01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:41.590
any activity. Taking a dump for example.
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:45.110
So yeah why not? It's not really you
01:16:45.120 --> 01:16:48.229
anyway is it? Because there is no self.
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:50.390
If you are anything, you'd be more just
01:16:50.400 --> 01:16:52.950
the sea of consciousness rather than all
01:16:52.960 --> 01:16:56.470
these distracting waves,
01:16:56.480 --> 01:16:59.590
so to speak. But then again, Buddhists
01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:02.310
are supposed to reify the absolute
01:17:02.320 --> 01:17:04.950
even though the Abidama scholars did big
01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:07.910
time.
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:09.189
So, I'm just going to move on. Next
01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:11.669
question. This is from Xenithoid. We've
01:17:11.679 --> 01:17:14.310
been going for an hour and 17 minutes.
01:17:14.320 --> 01:17:17.430
This next question is from Xenithoid.
01:17:17.440 --> 01:17:19.510
You've said that Buddhism in its
01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:22.149
masculine form is the negation of
01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:24.870
delusion and in its feminine form it is
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:27.350
the negation of suffering.
01:17:27.360 --> 01:17:29.030
Are delusion and suffering not
01:17:29.040 --> 01:17:31.830
ultimately the same thing? Well, I have
01:17:31.840 --> 01:17:35.430
said that like the more headoriented and
01:17:35.440 --> 01:17:37.910
thus stereotypically
01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:40.870
more masculine approach to dharma is a
01:17:40.880 --> 01:17:43.830
concern with you know freeing oneself
01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:46.870
from delusion. Whereas the more heart
01:17:46.880 --> 01:17:48.630
oriented and stereotypically more
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.550
feminine approach to dharma is
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:54.149
liberating oneself from suffering.
01:17:54.159 --> 01:17:57.750
But ultimately if you have reduced
01:17:57.760 --> 01:18:00.470
suffering to zero that's the same as
01:18:00.480 --> 01:18:03.430
reducing delusion to to zero. I don't
01:18:03.440 --> 01:18:05.030
think delusion and suffering are
01:18:05.040 --> 01:18:06.870
necessarily the same thing. They're
01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:10.070
certainly not defined as synonyms in the
01:18:10.080 --> 01:18:11.990
texts. But you don't suffer without
01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:14.149
delusion. If you don't have any
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:15.510
delusion, you don't have any suffering
01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:17.750
either. So in order to eliminate
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.149
suffering, you still have to eliminate
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:23.350
delusion. It's just that the end result
01:18:23.360 --> 01:18:25.510
may be perceived as different. But
01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:27.030
either way, you have to eliminate
01:18:27.040 --> 01:18:32.470
delusion because that's unenlightenment.
01:18:32.480 --> 01:18:35.270
So delusion and suffering,
01:18:35.280 --> 01:18:36.870
I mean, they're ultimately the same
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:39.750
thing and ultimately they're just like
01:18:39.760 --> 01:18:42.390
imaginary statues in the block of
01:18:42.400 --> 01:18:45.990
marble. I mean, they're not defined as
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:49.030
synonyms, but without delusion, you
01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:52.070
don't suffer. And so, in order to stop
01:18:52.080 --> 01:18:57.189
suffering, you have to cut the the link
01:18:57.199 --> 01:19:01.270
generally. I mean it's like like desire
01:19:01.280 --> 01:19:02.790
you know desire is the cause of all
01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:04.709
suffering delusion is the cause of all
01:19:04.719 --> 01:19:10.470
desire.
01:19:10.480 --> 01:19:14.630
So in order to like stop experiencing
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:17.830
desire you have to have such intense
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:21.590
mindfulness that you can I mean that
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:26.229
you're not diluted anymore.
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:27.750
So I mean that's that's how I would
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.390
explain it there. Ultimately I mean
01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:32.310
ultimately it's just meaningless because
01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:34.070
ultimately you can't explain reality in
01:19:34.080 --> 01:19:36.950
words. You know ultimately there are no
01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:40.310
different things that dividing the world
01:19:40.320 --> 01:19:42.950
into a multiplicity is like an
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.270
artificial
01:19:45.280 --> 01:19:47.910
artificial construct. It's a projection
01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:50.950
by by the mind.
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:55.669
It is delusion ultimately.
01:19:55.679 --> 01:19:57.430
But you can't have suffering without
01:19:57.440 --> 01:19:58.950
desire. And you can't have desire
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:01.430
without delusion.
01:20:01.440 --> 01:20:03.510
So by eliminating delusion, you
01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:06.229
eliminate all three.
01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:09.030
And you can't eliminate suffering
01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:10.470
without eliminating the first two
01:20:10.480 --> 01:20:12.070
anyway.
01:20:12.080 --> 01:20:14.550
So it's all about delusion. And it seems
01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:18.550
to me
01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:21.669
even if that is not like the deliberate
01:20:21.679 --> 01:20:23.910
focus of one's practice that's the way
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:26.630
it works out.
01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:29.910
So we head oriented people are a little
01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:32.070
deeper in that kind of understanding
01:20:32.080 --> 01:20:33.830
maybe
01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:34.950
and I'm just going to move on to the
01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:39.669
next question. This is from Dhamma River
01:20:39.679 --> 01:20:42.470
and Dhamma River asks a kind of
01:20:42.480 --> 01:20:45.430
technical Dhhamma question here. He
01:20:45.440 --> 01:20:48.149
says, "I wonder if you could please read
01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:51.830
a very short suta in the samuta nikaya."
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:54.470
Before answering this question, it's the
01:20:54.480 --> 01:20:59.350
kasapa samyuta suta 8 exhortation 3. It
01:20:59.360 --> 01:21:01.590
ends with this sentence and that is my
01:21:01.600 --> 01:21:03.510
question. Could you please explain what
01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:07.750
this sentence means? And so
01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:10.870
here's the the concluding sentence or
01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:13.510
concluding paragraph of this suta which
01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:16.630
I did read. I read Bikub's translation.
01:21:16.640 --> 01:21:19.430
He says if Kasapa one speaking rightly
01:21:19.440 --> 01:21:22.070
could say those leading the holy life
01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:23.990
have been ruined by the ruination of
01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:26.070
those who lead the holy life. Those
01:21:26.080 --> 01:21:27.590
leading the holy life have been
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:29.350
vanquished by the vanquishing of those
01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:33.350
who lead the holy life. It is just it is
01:21:33.360 --> 01:21:35.430
just thus that one could rightly say
01:21:35.440 --> 01:21:37.030
this.
01:21:37.040 --> 01:21:39.030
Okay. So I did read the suta as I
01:21:39.040 --> 01:21:41.990
already said and it doesn't strike me as
01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:44.310
a particularly early one. There is some
01:21:44.320 --> 01:21:47.669
anacronism in this suta
01:21:47.679 --> 01:21:49.750
and I mean the whole purpose of the suda
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:51.910
is talking about how monks used to be
01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:54.390
like conscientious aesthetic forest
01:21:54.400 --> 01:21:57.590
dwellers dedicated to meditation and now
01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:01.510
like the most the most highprofile most
01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:04.470
respected monks are just the famous ones
01:22:04.480 --> 01:22:07.189
that are good at talking. So I mean that
01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:09.270
in itself is something that you would
01:22:09.280 --> 01:22:11.669
expect later on in Buddhism than during
01:22:11.679 --> 01:22:13.669
the Buddha's own lifetime when he's
01:22:13.679 --> 01:22:15.830
still leading the SA. And also there's
01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:18.149
an anacronism here in this sentence or
01:22:18.159 --> 01:22:22.229
this paragraph. He says I mean the
01:22:22.239 --> 01:22:24.709
Buddha asks Kasapa let's let's just do a
01:22:24.719 --> 01:22:26.950
little synopsis of this suta. The Buddha
01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:29.430
asks Mahakasapa who is his senior
01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:32.950
disciple to if he wants to give a sermon
01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:35.110
to the monks. And then Ma Kasapa says,
01:22:35.120 --> 01:22:36.870
"The monks don't even listen anymore.
01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:38.870
They're not respectful anymore." And
01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:43.830
then the Buddha says, "Just so Kasapa in
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:46.229
the past the elder beus were forest
01:22:46.239 --> 01:22:48.229
dwellers and spoke in praise of forest
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:50.550
dwelling. They were alms food eaters and
01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:52.550
spoke in praise of eating alms food.
01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:54.870
They were ragrobe wearers and spoke in
01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:57.110
praise of wearing rag robes. They were
01:22:57.120 --> 01:22:59.750
triple robe users and spoke in praise of
01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:02.149
using the triple robe. They were of few
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:04.229
wishes and spoke in praise of fewness of
01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:06.550
wishes. They were content and spoke in
01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:08.470
praise of contentment. They were
01:23:08.480 --> 01:23:10.390
secluded and spoke in praise of
01:23:10.400 --> 01:23:12.709
solitude. They were aloof from society
01:23:12.719 --> 01:23:14.790
and spoke in praise of aloofness from
01:23:14.800 --> 01:23:17.270
society. They were energetic and spoken
01:23:17.280 --> 01:23:19.590
praise of arousing energy. And then he
01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:21.350
talks about how nowadays, you know,
01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:23.270
they're just the ones that get the most
01:23:23.280 --> 01:23:27.270
donations are like the most respected.
01:23:27.280 --> 01:23:29.510
But you look at this this part this part
01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:31.910
here is especially they were triple robe
01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:33.990
users and spoken praise of using the
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:37.189
triple robe that's in the pimoka rules.
01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:39.750
It it later on it came to be like this
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:42.950
optional practice but this built right
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:45.830
into the Buddhist monastic code that all
01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:49.189
monks are supposed to be triple robe.
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:51.110
You don't keep more than three robes.
01:23:51.120 --> 01:23:54.070
It's a nisagia pacidia offense to keep
01:23:54.080 --> 01:23:57.110
an extra robe for more than 10 days.
01:23:57.120 --> 01:24:00.310
it with if if you keep an extra robe, a
01:24:00.320 --> 01:24:02.709
fourth robe, which is just a rectangle
01:24:02.719 --> 01:24:06.229
of cloth for more than 10 days, then you
01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:08.550
have to you have committed a nisia
01:24:08.560 --> 01:24:11.750
pacidia offense. You have to relinquish
01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:13.590
the extra robe and then you have to make
01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:16.950
confession for it. So this suta
01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:19.830
apparently arose at a time when that
01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:22.390
pimoka rule had already become kind of
01:24:22.400 --> 01:24:25.270
obsolete through just people not monks
01:24:25.280 --> 01:24:28.070
not following it and nowadays there are
01:24:28.080 --> 01:24:31.430
very few monks that follow that rule
01:24:31.440 --> 01:24:34.070
like a John Tenisro in his famous book
01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:35.990
on the Buddhist monastic code you know
01:24:36.000 --> 01:24:39.030
he he just follows the Thai loopholes of
01:24:39.040 --> 01:24:40.950
getting around this rule and he just
01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:43.510
says it's if you call it something
01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:45.110
besides a rogue robe, then it's not a
01:24:45.120 --> 01:24:47.430
robe. You just designate it as accessory
01:24:47.440 --> 01:24:50.229
cloth. Parachola,
01:24:50.239 --> 01:24:52.790
just call it parach. It's not a robe.
01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:54.229
Even though you're wearing it as a robe,
01:24:54.239 --> 01:24:56.629
it looks like a robe. And which is is
01:24:56.639 --> 01:24:59.030
just nonsense. It's just playing games
01:24:59.040 --> 01:25:02.149
trying to avoid following a rule.
01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:05.189
And by the time this suta was composed,
01:25:05.199 --> 01:25:07.990
this had already happened.
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:10.229
Which is kind of unlikely that during
01:25:10.239 --> 01:25:13.669
the Buddha's own time
01:25:13.679 --> 01:25:16.470
that monks would already have abandoned
01:25:16.480 --> 01:25:19.910
this pyoka rule.
01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:22.390
So
01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:26.070
I would say that this this uh this suta
01:25:26.080 --> 01:25:28.790
arose later on. I mean probably not much
01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:31.350
later on because it is in the in the
01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:34.310
depitica. It is in the sutapitica
01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:36.629
but I would guess that it is kind of an
01:25:36.639 --> 01:25:40.550
anacronistic madeup kind of suta.
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:44.709
So I mean the whole the whole spiel here
01:25:44.719 --> 01:25:48.149
is that in in the early days of the sa I
01:25:48.159 --> 01:25:49.590
mean the Buddha is actually supposed to
01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:51.750
be saying this. So it's like it's it's
01:25:51.760 --> 01:25:53.430
kind of weird but the Buddha is saying
01:25:53.440 --> 01:25:55.270
in the early days of the song the monks
01:25:55.280 --> 01:25:57.830
were you know dedicated aesthetic
01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:00.629
meditators lived a life of simplicity
01:26:00.639 --> 01:26:03.189
and so they got the most respect and so
01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:05.990
that new converts to the SA would look
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:07.270
at these monks that were getting the
01:26:07.280 --> 01:26:10.790
most respect and emulate them. But later
01:26:10.800 --> 01:26:13.830
on in the SA monks that are the most
01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:16.629
respected are the ones that are getting
01:26:16.639 --> 01:26:18.390
the most donations. you know, they're
01:26:18.400 --> 01:26:21.430
the best the best talkers, this kind of
01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:25.430
thing. And so, new um new monks entering
01:26:25.440 --> 01:26:28.709
the SA, they look at at them as being
01:26:28.719 --> 01:26:30.629
the most respected, and so they emulate
01:26:30.639 --> 01:26:35.510
them. So, we get to this statement in
01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:37.990
question. Those leading the holy life
01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:39.910
have been ruined by the ruination of
01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:41.910
those who lead the holy life. Those
01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:43.270
leading the holy life have been
01:26:43.280 --> 01:26:45.350
vanquished by the vanquishing of those
01:26:45.360 --> 01:26:48.470
who lead the holy life. So essentially
01:26:48.480 --> 01:26:49.830
what it means, although it's kind of
01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:55.189
awkwardly worded, is that when monks
01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:57.750
start getting corrupt and then they
01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.550
become the leaders of the SA and they're
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:04.070
the most respected monks, then the new
01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:06.149
monks are just following in their
01:27:06.159 --> 01:27:09.669
footsteps and becoming corrupt also. I
01:27:09.679 --> 01:27:12.229
mean, that's essentially what it means.
01:27:12.239 --> 01:27:15.350
So those leading the holy life now have
01:27:15.360 --> 01:27:17.110
been ruined by the ruination of those
01:27:17.120 --> 01:27:19.590
who led the holy life in previously
01:27:19.600 --> 01:27:22.310
because they're emulating them. That's
01:27:22.320 --> 01:27:25.510
how I interpret it anyway.
01:27:25.520 --> 01:27:27.990
And that's I mean it's I mentioned in a
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.110
recent Q&A that I did meet the the
01:27:31.120 --> 01:27:33.750
Burmese equivalent to the SA Mahar the
01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:36.310
Sa Raja of Thailand. He's the the
01:27:36.320 --> 01:27:39.669
Burmese equivalent of the SA Raja is the
01:27:39.679 --> 01:27:41.590
SA Mahanayakasi
01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:44.310
the great leader of the SA and he
01:27:44.320 --> 01:27:47.270
handled money and he would praise the
01:27:47.280 --> 01:27:51.030
hand the donating of money to monks
01:27:51.040 --> 01:27:53.189
to to lay people when you give damatox
01:27:53.199 --> 01:27:54.870
you know he'd encourage them to donate
01:27:54.880 --> 01:27:56.870
money to monks
01:27:56.880 --> 01:27:59.910
and he was like the leader of the SA in
01:27:59.920 --> 01:28:02.790
Burma anyway I mean technically I mean
01:28:02.800 --> 01:28:04.470
he's he's pretty much just kind of a
01:28:04.480 --> 01:28:06.550
bureaucrat that
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:08.229
probably most Burmese Buddhists wouldn't
01:28:08.239 --> 01:28:11.910
even know who he was. But still, and
01:28:11.920 --> 01:28:13.430
that's kind of the way it goes. It's
01:28:13.440 --> 01:28:17.430
just corruption in religion is largely a
01:28:17.440 --> 01:28:19.430
matter of human nature. Largely a matter
01:28:19.440 --> 01:28:23.350
of just cultural drift. The the system
01:28:23.360 --> 01:28:25.350
adapts to the culture and to human
01:28:25.360 --> 01:28:27.990
nature more than human nature is going
01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:33.750
to adapt to this very exalted ideal.
01:28:33.760 --> 01:28:35.510
So, you've got two kinds of religion.
01:28:35.520 --> 01:28:37.830
You've got really wise, exalted
01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:39.990
religions that inevitably get corrupted
01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:41.910
because most of their followers aren't
01:28:41.920 --> 01:28:45.110
wise people. Or you've got just
01:28:45.120 --> 01:28:46.790
religions that are kind of foolish and
01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.510
easy to follow right off the bat so that
01:28:49.520 --> 01:28:51.350
the followers don't need to corrupt it
01:28:51.360 --> 01:28:53.750
because it's already foolish and easy to
01:28:53.760 --> 01:28:58.149
follow. And I won't name any names.
01:28:58.159 --> 01:28:59.270
And I'm just going to move on. Next
01:28:59.280 --> 01:29:00.950
question. This is from Ethiopian fake
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:02.709
TIG.
01:29:02.719 --> 01:29:07.910
An Ethiopian fake TIG says around Q&A 22
01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:10.070
or something. I'm glad that people are
01:29:10.080 --> 01:29:12.790
still watching those old ones,
01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:15.350
but I just interrupted myself. Ethiopian
01:29:15.360 --> 01:29:18.629
fake TIG says around Q&A 22 or something
01:29:18.639 --> 01:29:20.790
you spoke about what it would be like to
01:29:20.800 --> 01:29:25.030
attain first Janna and how it's like the
01:29:25.040 --> 01:29:28.470
muscles in the next spasming
01:29:28.480 --> 01:29:31.189
since one is in a state of focus and
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:34.870
such. Can you perhaps speak on the three
01:29:34.880 --> 01:29:37.430
other Jas in detail? Well, I really
01:29:37.440 --> 01:29:39.910
don't think that I said that you're
01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:42.310
spasming when you get first Janna. I
01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:45.189
think what he's referring to is I mean I
01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:46.629
mean I don't have much use for the whole
01:29:46.639 --> 01:29:49.590
four Janna system because I think it has
01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:52.629
been corrupted over time. Another sign
01:29:52.639 --> 01:29:55.030
of corruption is the interpretation of
01:29:55.040 --> 01:29:57.830
the four Jas. I used personally I think
01:29:57.840 --> 01:30:00.390
originally the four genres were just the
01:30:00.400 --> 01:30:03.270
four stages of meditation. So that first
01:30:03.280 --> 01:30:06.390
Janna when you're still thinking I mean
01:30:06.400 --> 01:30:08.950
it's like beginning elementary
01:30:08.960 --> 01:30:11.030
meditation if you're doing it correctly
01:30:11.040 --> 01:30:14.229
that would qualify as first Janna but
01:30:14.239 --> 01:30:17.430
somewhere along the lines due to monks
01:30:17.440 --> 01:30:20.070
not understanding Janna very well maybe
01:30:20.080 --> 01:30:21.990
because they were more interested in
01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:23.990
formulating philosophies and actually
01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:25.750
meditating
01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:27.590
they haven't worked out that all four
01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:29.430
Jas even first Janna where you're still
01:30:29.440 --> 01:30:32.229
thinking are superhuman mental states
01:30:32.239 --> 01:30:34.950
Udri manusa dama
01:30:34.960 --> 01:30:38.070
superhum mental states. So in the
01:30:38.080 --> 01:30:40.629
mahasadi batanosa when it says that
01:30:40.639 --> 01:30:44.229
right concentration is the four jas it's
01:30:44.239 --> 01:30:45.669
it's now worked out that right
01:30:45.679 --> 01:30:47.430
concentration is a superhuman mental
01:30:47.440 --> 01:30:51.189
state which is it seems kind of
01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:55.350
implausible to me.
01:30:55.360 --> 01:30:58.709
Anyways, what I was saying
01:30:58.719 --> 01:31:00.550
um I mean I don't remember exactly what
01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:03.270
I said in Q&A 22
01:31:03.280 --> 01:31:05.590
but
01:31:05.600 --> 01:31:08.390
um there is something called pi or I
01:31:08.400 --> 01:31:11.189
think in in Hinduism it's called shakti
01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:13.990
where sometimes if you're getting into
01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:15.590
you're breaking new ground in your
01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:17.350
meditation you're getting into a deeper
01:31:17.360 --> 01:31:19.750
level of meditation than you're used to.
01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:21.750
your whole body can just start twitching
01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:23.990
because it's like you're in this subtler
01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:26.310
state that requires less mental energy
01:31:26.320 --> 01:31:29.510
maybe so that you've got this excess
01:31:29.520 --> 01:31:31.910
mental energy that has to like expend
01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:34.070
itself somehow and so it just expends
01:31:34.080 --> 01:31:36.310
itself in just like twi twitching and
01:31:36.320 --> 01:31:38.470
jerking of your muscles that has
01:31:38.480 --> 01:31:41.669
happened to me a few times
01:31:41.679 --> 01:31:46.149
um there's a story of Ram Das when he he
01:31:46.159 --> 01:31:49.189
gets to visit his guru Maharaji in the
01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:50.709
evening ing when everyone else is gone,
01:31:50.719 --> 01:31:52.550
which was a rare occasion. You know,
01:31:52.560 --> 01:31:54.310
Maharaji would just stay by himself,
01:31:54.320 --> 01:31:56.070
maybe like an attendant or something
01:31:56.080 --> 01:32:00.470
there, but Ram Das got to visit him. And
01:32:00.480 --> 01:32:03.110
Maharaji was apparently pretending to be
01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:07.910
asleep. And so Ram Das started like
01:32:07.920 --> 01:32:09.270
meditating just cuz he wanted to
01:32:09.280 --> 01:32:12.550
meditate in Maharaji's presence. And it
01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:14.390
was like almost immediately he got into
01:32:14.400 --> 01:32:16.229
this really deep state where he is just
01:32:16.239 --> 01:32:18.310
like his teeth are chattering and he's
01:32:18.320 --> 01:32:19.750
just like twitching and jerking all over
01:32:19.760 --> 01:32:22.149
the place. And then Maharaji would just
01:32:22.159 --> 01:32:24.070
kind of open his eyes and and ask him
01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:25.830
some mundane question, you know, how
01:32:25.840 --> 01:32:28.149
much does your friend so and so make,
01:32:28.159 --> 01:32:29.750
you know, to kind of bring him back down
01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:33.910
because he just wasn't ready for it yet.
01:32:33.920 --> 01:32:35.669
So that's that's essentially what I was
01:32:35.679 --> 01:32:39.910
talking about was this PT or or shockti
01:32:39.920 --> 01:32:41.910
or you know whatever you want to call it
01:32:41.920 --> 01:32:43.750
that when you get into a a deeper
01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.629
meditative state than you're used to
01:32:46.639 --> 01:32:48.950
then your muscles can start to twitch
01:32:48.960 --> 01:32:52.070
that kind of thing and it's I mean it's
01:32:52.080 --> 01:32:53.750
not indicative of first Janna
01:32:53.760 --> 01:32:56.310
necessarily
01:32:56.320 --> 01:32:58.550
so let's see here can you perhaps speak
01:32:58.560 --> 01:33:02.229
on the three other Jas in detail well
01:33:02.239 --> 01:33:05.030
the other all four Janna you know it's
01:33:05.040 --> 01:33:06.790
if you want to know what the Janna are
01:33:06.800 --> 01:33:08.550
you look in the sutas and you will find
01:33:08.560 --> 01:33:11.189
that almost every time the Janna's are
01:33:11.199 --> 01:33:14.950
mentioned or described in the sutas it's
01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:19.430
the exact same block of of words you
01:33:19.440 --> 01:33:22.229
know it's just this stereotyped
01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:25.030
block of words that's just inserted into
01:33:25.040 --> 01:33:27.910
sutas when the the genres are to be
01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:31.110
described and unfortunately it's not a
01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:33.830
good enough description that the meaning
01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:38.950
of Janna is uncontroversial.
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:43.110
So I mean the first Janna you're still
01:33:43.120 --> 01:33:46.470
thinking you know it's you're still
01:33:46.480 --> 01:33:48.629
capable of thought and you're still
01:33:48.639 --> 01:33:50.149
feeling
01:33:50.159 --> 01:33:54.070
physical and mental pleasure and pain.
01:33:54.080 --> 01:33:57.350
Then in the second Janna, you stop
01:33:57.360 --> 01:33:59.750
thinking. You're still feeling mental
01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:02.390
and physical pleasure and pain, but
01:34:02.400 --> 01:34:06.149
you're no longer thinking in like uh
01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:08.070
your words are no longer your thoughts
01:34:08.080 --> 01:34:10.629
are no longer hooking up in in sequence.
01:34:10.639 --> 01:34:12.790
You know, a thought may just flash into
01:34:12.800 --> 01:34:14.790
your mind, but then it just disappears
01:34:14.800 --> 01:34:19.910
again and you're not thinking.
01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:23.270
So third Janna
01:34:23.280 --> 01:34:25.430
is, if I remember correctly, hope I
01:34:25.440 --> 01:34:27.669
don't embarrass myself here. You're not
01:34:27.679 --> 01:34:29.750
thinking. You got rid of that when you
01:34:29.760 --> 01:34:31.590
got into second Janna. And you're no
01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:35.350
longer feeling mental pleasure and pain.
01:34:35.360 --> 01:34:37.189
You still feel physical pleasure and
01:34:37.199 --> 01:34:40.229
pain. So it's like your your mindfulness
01:34:40.239 --> 01:34:43.910
is getting deeper. So that your mind is
01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:46.950
no longer feeling like happiness and
01:34:46.960 --> 01:34:48.550
unhappiness even though your body is
01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:50.149
still capable of feeling pleasure and
01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:52.310
pain still not thinking. Then when you
01:34:52.320 --> 01:34:54.550
get into fourth Janna which according to
01:34:54.560 --> 01:34:57.350
the original four stages you know the
01:34:57.360 --> 01:34:59.910
four the original description of the jas
01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:03.510
in plural then that's supposedly the
01:35:03.520 --> 01:35:05.910
highest meditative state you can get to.
01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:07.430
I mean, originally it's probably the way
01:35:07.440 --> 01:35:09.910
it was. In which case, you're no longer
01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:13.750
thinking. Your mindfulness is purified
01:35:13.760 --> 01:35:16.310
and you're no longer experiencing mental
01:35:16.320 --> 01:35:19.030
or physical pleasure and pain. It's just
01:35:19.040 --> 01:35:25.030
a state of perfected equinimity.
01:35:25.040 --> 01:35:26.950
And I mean, there are some people that
01:35:26.960 --> 01:35:29.830
consider proof of fourth of Jonah to be
01:35:29.840 --> 01:35:31.750
I mean, you almost stop breathing and
01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:33.830
your heart rate slows down like that of
01:35:33.840 --> 01:35:36.950
a hibernating squirrel. And Shoko
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:40.709
Asahara of Japan was actually using like
01:35:40.719 --> 01:35:44.470
air chambers to measure the the breath
01:35:44.480 --> 01:35:47.270
rate of people and showing that they
01:35:47.280 --> 01:35:49.189
were in this state where their head
01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:50.870
almost stopped breathing. They required
01:35:50.880 --> 01:35:53.189
almost no oxygen and using that as proof
01:35:53.199 --> 01:35:55.030
that his system was producing forth
01:35:55.040 --> 01:35:58.149
Janna. But to me it sounds more like a
01:35:58.159 --> 01:36:01.750
deep hypnotic trance. And my father's
01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:04.870
second wife, not my mother, was capable
01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:07.750
of going into extremely deep hypnotic
01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:10.709
trances despite the fact that she was an
01:36:10.719 --> 01:36:13.590
alcoholic and not moral at all. So it
01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:16.629
wasn't really Janna probably,
01:36:16.639 --> 01:36:19.510
but she was I mean she would go into
01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:22.390
very deep hypnotic states where her
01:36:22.400 --> 01:36:24.149
breath and her her heart rate would
01:36:24.159 --> 01:36:28.070
become almost invisible.
01:36:28.080 --> 01:36:30.870
I mean, almost no detectable pulse or or
01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:33.910
breath rate. So, I'm guessing that some
01:36:33.920 --> 01:36:36.629
of this I mean, I've been saying for
01:36:36.639 --> 01:36:39.189
years that a lot of what is considered
01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:41.590
to be Janna is really like a deep
01:36:41.600 --> 01:36:43.750
hypnotic trance that probably isn't
01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:48.550
genuine samaati.
01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:50.629
But just going with the standard the
01:36:50.639 --> 01:36:52.870
standard for Janna theory for Janna
01:36:52.880 --> 01:36:55.669
system. First Janna, you're still
01:36:55.679 --> 01:36:57.830
thinking. Still feeling mental and
01:36:57.840 --> 01:36:59.830
physical pleasure and pain. Second
01:36:59.840 --> 01:37:03.109
Janna, not thinking anymore. Still
01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:04.790
feeling mental and physical pleasure and
01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:07.189
pain. Third Janna, your mindfulness is
01:37:07.199 --> 01:37:09.510
getting deeper.
01:37:09.520 --> 01:37:12.470
Not thinking, not feeling mental
01:37:12.480 --> 01:37:14.390
pleasure and pain, but still feeling
01:37:14.400 --> 01:37:17.030
physical pleasure and pain or still cap
01:37:17.040 --> 01:37:18.790
capable of feeling it. And finally,
01:37:18.800 --> 01:37:22.950
fourth Janna is just like
01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:26.470
vast expanse of voidness,
01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:28.149
but you're in a higher state of
01:37:28.159 --> 01:37:29.910
consciousness. You're more awake. Your
01:37:29.920 --> 01:37:33.189
mindfulness is purified.
01:37:33.199 --> 01:37:36.629
It's just like super consciousness,
01:37:36.639 --> 01:37:38.870
which again makes it seem unlikely that
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:41.109
you would become completely oblivious to
01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:42.870
your to your surroundings like a
01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:47.910
hibernating squirrel.
01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:50.070
Although some of those Hindu swamies
01:37:50.080 --> 01:37:51.990
they can appear to be completely
01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:54.229
oblivious like maybe a hibernating
01:37:54.239 --> 01:37:55.750
squirrel but then after they come out of
01:37:55.760 --> 01:37:57.590
it they can repeat conversations that
01:37:57.600 --> 01:38:00.310
were going on in their presence by the
01:38:00.320 --> 01:38:02.629
scientists that were examining their
01:38:02.639 --> 01:38:04.629
brain waves or something while they were
01:38:04.639 --> 01:38:08.149
in that state. So it may seem like
01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:09.590
you're oblivious to your surroundings
01:38:09.600 --> 01:38:10.950
like a hibernating squirrel, but that's
01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:13.910
not necessarily the case. if in fact you
01:38:13.920 --> 01:38:17.189
were not oblivious.
01:38:17.199 --> 01:38:18.390
And I'm just going to move on to
01:38:18.400 --> 01:38:22.149
Ethiopian fake Tig's next question.
01:38:22.159 --> 01:38:24.790
He says, "You once said in Janism their
01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:26.870
fully enlightened beings know everything
01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:29.270
all the time and their enlightenment is
01:38:29.280 --> 01:38:31.350
different. Can you speak a little about
01:38:31.360 --> 01:38:33.270
other forms of enlightenment and their
01:38:33.280 --> 01:38:35.990
powers in other religions?"
01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:37.750
Well,
01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:40.870
golly. I mean I haven't really studied
01:38:40.880 --> 01:38:43.590
this in detail in various religions. I
01:38:43.600 --> 01:38:46.870
mean the kind of ironically the
01:38:46.880 --> 01:38:48.310
definition of enlightenment that I
01:38:48.320 --> 01:38:50.550
understand the best would be in Buddhism
01:38:50.560 --> 01:38:54.629
and Roman Catholicism which and before I
01:38:54.639 --> 01:38:55.990
read St. John of the Cross, I was
01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:58.470
oblivious to the idea that in Roman
01:38:58.480 --> 01:39:01.590
Catholicism there even is like the stage
01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:04.470
of perfection because of course in in
01:39:04.480 --> 01:39:06.550
Christianity it's like nobody is worthy.
01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:08.550
Everyone is imperfect. You know, you
01:39:08.560 --> 01:39:10.070
only get into heaven through the grace
01:39:10.080 --> 01:39:13.350
of God. And here's St. John of the Cross
01:39:13.360 --> 01:39:15.270
saying that you can become perfect in
01:39:15.280 --> 01:39:18.709
this very life.
01:39:18.719 --> 01:39:20.790
Well, with regard to Janism, I mean,
01:39:20.800 --> 01:39:24.070
I've never really studied up uh like a
01:39:24.080 --> 01:39:27.189
Jane text describing what it's like to
01:39:27.199 --> 01:39:29.189
be fully enlightened Jane. Although
01:39:29.199 --> 01:39:31.669
Mahaviraa and other Tankeras who are
01:39:31.679 --> 01:39:33.510
sort of like the the Jane equivalent to
01:39:33.520 --> 01:39:36.870
Buddhas. Um they supposedly were fully
01:39:36.880 --> 01:39:39.109
omnisient all the time as opposed to the
01:39:39.119 --> 01:39:41.510
Buddha who is selectively omnisient. He
01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:43.270
could know anything he wanted to know,
01:39:43.280 --> 01:39:45.750
but he wasn't experiencing infinite
01:39:45.760 --> 01:39:49.270
knowledge at all times,
01:39:49.280 --> 01:39:51.109
at least not infinite objective
01:39:51.119 --> 01:39:54.629
knowledge.
01:39:54.639 --> 01:39:56.709
So, and and that was kind of mocked in
01:39:56.719 --> 01:39:59.350
the in the Buddhist texts with regard to
01:39:59.360 --> 01:40:03.270
Hindu like Hindu enlightenment.
01:40:03.280 --> 01:40:04.870
That's a tough one. I mean I know a
01:40:04.880 --> 01:40:06.870
little bit about Nim Crowley Baba
01:40:06.880 --> 01:40:09.590
Maharaji up there. You know how Ramdas
01:40:09.600 --> 01:40:10.870
would say that the better you got to
01:40:10.880 --> 01:40:12.070
know him the more you realized there
01:40:12.080 --> 01:40:14.070
really was nobody there. That he was
01:40:14.080 --> 01:40:15.830
just like a mirror reflecting your own
01:40:15.840 --> 01:40:18.550
karma back at you. And he did not act
01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:20.390
like the stereotypical saint. He didn't
01:40:20.400 --> 01:40:22.629
even act like fellow Hindu Raman
01:40:22.639 --> 01:40:26.229
Maharshi. He was he was like a rascal.
01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:28.310
He'd be hitting people and throwing
01:40:28.320 --> 01:40:31.430
fruit at them and cracking jokes,
01:40:31.440 --> 01:40:34.390
that kind of stuff.
01:40:34.400 --> 01:40:36.470
But with regard to St. John of the Cross
01:40:36.480 --> 01:40:39.189
and Roman Catholicism, I mean he says
01:40:39.199 --> 01:40:43.270
that uh I mean when you master high
01:40:43.280 --> 01:40:46.229
contemplation which would be the the
01:40:46.239 --> 01:40:48.390
higher Jas. You're no longer thinking
01:40:48.400 --> 01:40:50.149
when you're practicing Catholic
01:40:50.159 --> 01:40:52.550
contemplation. Meditation is when you're
01:40:52.560 --> 01:40:53.830
still thinking. That would be like first
01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:56.470
genre. And then I mean that's is sort of
01:40:56.480 --> 01:40:59.430
like repeating the Lord's Prayer or you
01:40:59.440 --> 01:41:01.750
know visualizing scenes from the life of
01:41:01.760 --> 01:41:04.310
Christ. that kind of thing in in
01:41:04.320 --> 01:41:06.629
Christianity. But when you get into
01:41:06.639 --> 01:41:09.030
contemplation, just any thought that
01:41:09.040 --> 01:41:12.790
arises, you dismiss it until you mortify
01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:15.830
your own self-will. So that you no
01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:18.870
longer have self-will, which is kind of
01:41:18.880 --> 01:41:20.950
interesting considering that a Buddhist
01:41:20.960 --> 01:41:24.070
arant also supposedly no longer has
01:41:24.080 --> 01:41:26.870
self-will because will is volition,
01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:30.470
volition is karma, and an arhand is not
01:41:30.480 --> 01:41:32.229
creating any karma. So he's not creating
01:41:32.239 --> 01:41:35.270
any real volition.
01:41:35.280 --> 01:41:38.709
So the Catholic Araant and the Terravada
01:41:38.719 --> 01:41:41.830
Buddhist Aroahant both of them have just
01:41:41.840 --> 01:41:44.870
stopped generating volitions.
01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:46.629
But from St. John of the Cross's point
01:41:46.639 --> 01:41:48.629
of view, you know, his Christian
01:41:48.639 --> 01:41:50.870
explanation is that because you no
01:41:50.880 --> 01:41:53.990
longer have any self-will, you are
01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:57.030
purely motivated by the will of God.
01:41:57.040 --> 01:42:00.149
You're just like this puppet of God. And
01:42:00.159 --> 01:42:03.270
that is being God through participation
01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:05.189
according to him. And what he says is
01:42:05.199 --> 01:42:07.030
authoritative in Roman Catholicism. He
01:42:07.040 --> 01:42:10.070
is the mystical doctor of the Catholic
01:42:10.080 --> 01:42:12.070
Church. Whatever he says about mysticism
01:42:12.080 --> 01:42:14.870
is official dogma in the Roman Catholic
01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:16.470
Church.
01:42:16.480 --> 01:42:18.790
So according to the Roman Catholic
01:42:18.800 --> 01:42:20.310
Church, even though they don't advertise
01:42:20.320 --> 01:42:22.629
it, you can become God through
01:42:22.639 --> 01:42:25.750
participation just like like this divine
01:42:25.760 --> 01:42:28.229
puppet of God through mortifying your
01:42:28.239 --> 01:42:29.830
own will.
01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:31.669
In Buddhism, it's harder to explain
01:42:31.679 --> 01:42:33.830
because there is no God. There is no
01:42:33.840 --> 01:42:37.270
will of God for an arhant to be a puppet
01:42:37.280 --> 01:42:40.629
of. And so in
01:42:40.639 --> 01:42:43.270
in Abidama, they have to invent some new
01:42:43.280 --> 01:42:45.510
kind of like pseudo volition called
01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:48.470
Kirya, functional consciousness that
01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:51.750
will allow an arhand to appear to have
01:42:51.760 --> 01:42:53.830
volitions even though he's not
01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:57.030
generating any karma.
01:42:57.040 --> 01:42:58.870
But most religious systems don't even
01:42:58.880 --> 01:43:01.830
have a form of enlightenment in even in
01:43:01.840 --> 01:43:05.270
theory. I mean they might have the few
01:43:05.280 --> 01:43:08.229
outlying enlightened
01:43:08.239 --> 01:43:10.229
advocates or followers of that religion
01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:12.550
who just become enlightened in spite of
01:43:12.560 --> 01:43:16.470
the system as much as because of it.
01:43:16.480 --> 01:43:18.310
Um like an enlightened Sufi. I don't
01:43:18.320 --> 01:43:19.590
know what their definition of
01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:21.430
enlightenment would be like. just like
01:43:21.440 --> 01:43:24.229
Quranic Islam apparently doesn't have a
01:43:24.239 --> 01:43:26.709
concept of enlightenment
01:43:26.719 --> 01:43:29.669
um in according to the Bible. I mean the
01:43:29.679 --> 01:43:31.430
Bible really doesn't I mean the closest
01:43:31.440 --> 01:43:33.510
being to enlightenment in the in the
01:43:33.520 --> 01:43:35.350
Christian Bible of course would be Jesus
01:43:35.360 --> 01:43:37.830
but he's still I mean he never laughs
01:43:37.840 --> 01:43:41.510
but he cries he gets upset sometimes
01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:42.870
you how long am I going to have to deal
01:43:42.880 --> 01:43:45.830
with you people this kind of stuff.
01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:47.510
So I mean from the Buddhist point of
01:43:47.520 --> 01:43:49.350
view he's not really behaving like a
01:43:49.360 --> 01:43:52.390
fully enlightened being
01:43:52.400 --> 01:43:54.709
you know dear you god please take this
01:43:54.719 --> 01:43:56.390
cup from my hands you know he was he'd
01:43:56.400 --> 01:44:00.470
get depressed and upset sometimes.
01:44:00.480 --> 01:44:02.550
So
01:44:02.560 --> 01:44:05.750
gosh even Mahayana Buddhism their
01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:07.510
concepts of enlightenment I'm I'm sure
01:44:07.520 --> 01:44:09.350
they're all over the map just depending
01:44:09.360 --> 01:44:13.350
on the school of Mahayana Buddhism.
01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:17.350
But it is interesting to me that two two
01:44:17.360 --> 01:44:18.790
systems that are so different from each
01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:21.590
other. Terravada Buddhism in India and
01:44:21.600 --> 01:44:24.950
Roman Catholic Christianity in 16th
01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:27.109
century Spain.
01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:29.350
Both apparently independently through
01:44:29.360 --> 01:44:30.629
different angles, different
01:44:30.639 --> 01:44:33.990
interpretations had come up to a very
01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:35.990
similar understanding of what
01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:39.430
enlightenment is like which may mean
01:44:39.440 --> 01:44:42.229
that it's based on personal experience
01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:45.189
of people in terab Buddhism and people
01:44:45.199 --> 01:44:47.750
in Roman Catholicism
01:44:47.760 --> 01:44:49.830
um just kind of through going through a
01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:53.669
cultural filter.
01:44:53.679 --> 01:44:55.030
But I guess I should just move on to
01:44:55.040 --> 01:44:57.350
another move on to the next question.
01:44:57.360 --> 01:44:59.830
Move on to Ethiopian fake Tig's third
01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:01.590
question.
01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:04.550
He says, "I saw a video of you as a biku
01:45:04.560 --> 01:45:07.270
talking about the tree that smells. Do
01:45:07.280 --> 01:45:09.430
you perhaps have more videos like that
01:45:09.440 --> 01:45:11.990
since the video, weirdly enough, created
01:45:12.000 --> 01:45:16.070
a very calm and serene emotion for me?"
01:45:16.080 --> 01:45:19.669
It could be the way you took each
01:45:19.679 --> 01:45:21.830
material carefully and meticulously and
01:45:21.840 --> 01:45:23.990
how calm you were or the message you
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:26.470
were sending. But if there are more
01:45:26.480 --> 01:45:29.270
vids, would you post them? Yeah. This
01:45:29.280 --> 01:45:31.430
the the sermon on the stinkwood tree.
01:45:31.440 --> 01:45:35.270
There was um a a guy I met, an American
01:45:35.280 --> 01:45:38.229
man, came to visit me in January of 2011
01:45:38.239 --> 01:45:39.750
when I was still living at Onebo
01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:41.830
Wildlife Refuge Monastery. And he kind
01:45:41.840 --> 01:45:44.790
of followed me going for alms round a
01:45:44.800 --> 01:45:49.590
few times. And uh I would take my bowl
01:45:49.600 --> 01:45:51.910
out of the bag and put it back into the
01:45:51.920 --> 01:45:53.590
bag on the outskirts of the village
01:45:53.600 --> 01:45:57.350
under this tree that I was told. I mean,
01:45:57.360 --> 01:45:58.950
it's it's called like the stinkwood tree
01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:02.229
or the rotten wood tree where it's a and
01:46:02.239 --> 01:46:05.510
when it was one of the only big trees in
01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:06.709
the area. I mean, the rest of them have
01:46:06.719 --> 01:46:09.990
been chopped down, but the wood stinks.
01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:12.390
You can't use it for lumber because the
01:46:12.400 --> 01:46:14.790
lumber stinks. Even if you burn it as
01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:18.390
firewood, the the the smoke stinks. you
01:46:18.400 --> 01:46:20.149
and they say that you can't even use it
01:46:20.159 --> 01:46:23.669
to like bake bricks because somehow the
01:46:23.679 --> 01:46:25.910
the stink or something permeates the
01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:27.830
brick or something. So it was just like
01:46:27.840 --> 01:46:29.830
this useless tree and because it was
01:46:29.840 --> 01:46:31.830
useless it got to grow into this
01:46:31.840 --> 01:46:35.910
patriarch of a tree and it reminds me of
01:46:35.920 --> 01:46:41.189
the no what is it the Jews is the
01:46:41.199 --> 01:46:43.430
Chinese dowist text the second most
01:46:43.440 --> 01:46:46.870
famous dowist text where similarly
01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:48.790
there's this huge tree that nobody
01:46:48.800 --> 01:46:51.189
bothers to chop down because it's just
01:46:51.199 --> 01:46:54.470
totally worthless and so in the in theu
01:46:54.480 --> 01:46:57.510
or however the hell you pronounce that
01:46:57.520 --> 01:47:00.950
it's it's it's like the sage is just so
01:47:00.960 --> 01:47:02.870
unobtrusive. Nobody pays any attention
01:47:02.880 --> 01:47:05.430
to him and so he can live in his life in
01:47:05.440 --> 01:47:07.910
peace and reach the full fruition of his
01:47:07.920 --> 01:47:09.910
potential. You know, you don't want to
01:47:09.920 --> 01:47:13.350
be useful to normies because then
01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:14.629
they're going to be pestering you all. I
01:47:14.639 --> 01:47:16.149
mean, look at Jesus. He could heal the
01:47:16.159 --> 01:47:18.390
sick. There's like people just pestering
01:47:18.400 --> 01:47:24.149
him to heal their grandma of arumatism.
01:47:24.159 --> 01:47:25.830
Anyways, getting back to the question
01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:27.590
though,
01:47:27.600 --> 01:47:30.390
yeah, I mean, just it's it's all already
01:47:30.400 --> 01:47:32.470
posted. All of those old videos of me
01:47:32.480 --> 01:47:34.790
being a monk have already been uploaded
01:47:34.800 --> 01:47:38.310
onto YouTube. So, just go to my videos
01:47:38.320 --> 01:47:40.229
and just go to the oldest ones. It may
01:47:40.239 --> 01:47:43.430
be that you can even like click on
01:47:43.440 --> 01:47:47.030
oldest first and all of my old monk
01:47:47.040 --> 01:47:49.270
videos when I'm still in Burma should
01:47:49.280 --> 01:47:51.669
come up. You know, even like you go to
01:47:51.679 --> 01:47:55.030
my channel and um you know, the the
01:47:55.040 --> 01:47:57.430
highlighted video is me going for alms
01:47:57.440 --> 01:48:01.750
round in uh what was it? Lay village.
01:48:01.760 --> 01:48:05.030
So there are I don't remember how many
01:48:05.040 --> 01:48:07.669
videos. Not very many. It's in single
01:48:07.679 --> 01:48:10.310
digits, but still there all of the old
01:48:10.320 --> 01:48:13.030
videos of me being a monk still in in
01:48:13.040 --> 01:48:16.790
Burma are already up on YouTube. So just
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:19.669
go to the oldest ones on my channel, you
01:48:19.679 --> 01:48:21.990
know, just go to videos and maybe you
01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:24.550
have a filter of oldest first maybe and
01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:25.910
they should be right up at the top of
01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:29.590
the list.
01:48:29.600 --> 01:48:31.750
And so I'm just going to move on to next
01:48:31.760 --> 01:48:34.550
question. This is from Cole and Cole
01:48:34.560 --> 01:48:36.790
says,
01:48:36.800 --> 01:48:39.030
"What do you know about the polycanon
01:48:39.040 --> 01:48:41.750
teachings that pertain to the johnic
01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:43.910
attainments and their correlated rebirth
01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:46.229
in the various da realms?" Well, the
01:48:46.239 --> 01:48:49.270
Jonic attainments. Um, I mean, I kind of
01:48:49.280 --> 01:48:51.109
already went over the four Jas to a
01:48:51.119 --> 01:48:53.990
previous question, so I won't rehash
01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:55.669
that.
01:48:55.679 --> 01:48:58.950
I mean, technically, according to the
01:48:58.960 --> 01:49:01.189
poly text, you don't get superhuman
01:49:01.199 --> 01:49:04.629
mental states like psychic powers
01:49:04.639 --> 01:49:06.870
without Janna. that I mean you can
01:49:06.880 --> 01:49:08.470
become enlightened without Jon and
01:49:08.480 --> 01:49:11.109
become a so-called dry visioned arant
01:49:11.119 --> 01:49:13.270
who just becomes enlightened through
01:49:13.280 --> 01:49:17.430
like weasa insight mindfulness but if
01:49:17.440 --> 01:49:19.430
you want to be able to read minds and
01:49:19.440 --> 01:49:21.430
know your past lives and all that you
01:49:21.440 --> 01:49:24.070
have to get into the higher Jas would be
01:49:24.080 --> 01:49:26.870
johnic attainments I suppose but I guess
01:49:26.880 --> 01:49:28.870
what Cole is mainly asking about is the
01:49:28.880 --> 01:49:31.669
correlated rebirth in the various dava
01:49:31.679 --> 01:49:35.830
realms so I mean I didn't didn't do my
01:49:35.840 --> 01:49:37.590
research. It's I've never really
01:49:37.600 --> 01:49:39.990
believed this stuff very much. You know,
01:49:40.000 --> 01:49:43.109
it's it's in the texts,
01:49:43.119 --> 01:49:46.070
but I mean, I never really took such an
01:49:46.080 --> 01:49:48.629
intense interest in it as to bother to
01:49:48.639 --> 01:49:50.629
memorize it.
01:49:50.639 --> 01:49:53.270
But in the 31 plains of existence,
01:49:53.280 --> 01:49:55.350
you've got
01:49:55.360 --> 01:50:00.070
four four levels of Brahma realms
01:50:00.080 --> 01:50:03.830
corresponding to the four Janna. And I
01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:06.310
think there are like three levels in
01:50:06.320 --> 01:50:09.350
each of for each Janna. So there's three
01:50:09.360 --> 01:50:11.189
Brahma realms corresponding to each
01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:13.590
Janna. One is when you just are getting
01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:15.830
into it, getting into the Janna but
01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:17.270
haven't mastered it. One is when you're
01:50:17.280 --> 01:50:19.669
like have intermediate mastery and one
01:50:19.679 --> 01:50:23.430
is when you've fully mastered it. And I
01:50:23.440 --> 01:50:28.149
think Maha Brahma is his Maha Brahma and
01:50:28.159 --> 01:50:30.709
his entire retinue are still only at the
01:50:30.719 --> 01:50:32.390
level of first Janna if I remember
01:50:32.400 --> 01:50:33.750
correctly. I mean, don't quote me on
01:50:33.760 --> 01:50:35.990
that. I could be wrong. There's like the
01:50:36.000 --> 01:50:38.470
retinue of Brahma and then there's like
01:50:38.480 --> 01:50:41.030
the counselors of Brahma and then
01:50:41.040 --> 01:50:43.590
there's Maha Brahma himself. All of that
01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:45.590
would be like the three three Brahma
01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:48.550
realms corresponding to first Janna. And
01:50:48.560 --> 01:50:50.550
a lot of this strikes me as just
01:50:50.560 --> 01:50:53.430
religious propaganda cooked up by the
01:50:53.440 --> 01:50:56.950
Buddhists. I mean, I'm one of the few
01:50:56.960 --> 01:50:58.950
Buddhists or anyone who's been a monk
01:50:58.960 --> 01:51:00.950
who can actually talk like this because
01:51:00.960 --> 01:51:03.350
of course, if you're still a monk and
01:51:03.360 --> 01:51:04.790
you're kind of a missionary, you don't
01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:07.109
want to be pointing out, you know, sort
01:51:07.119 --> 01:51:11.030
of naughty bits in Buddhism, but for
01:51:11.040 --> 01:51:12.950
some perverse reason, I've never really
01:51:12.960 --> 01:51:16.629
hesitated all that much. But you've got
01:51:16.639 --> 01:51:19.669
Brahma, Mahab Brahma, who literally is
01:51:19.679 --> 01:51:22.070
like the personification of ultimate
01:51:22.080 --> 01:51:26.149
reality for Vadic Hindus
01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:28.709
who from the Buddhist point of view, I
01:51:28.719 --> 01:51:30.870
mean, he corresponds to just like this
01:51:30.880 --> 01:51:34.070
mediocre level of heaven, you know, he's
01:51:34.080 --> 01:51:35.830
like one of the he's on one of the
01:51:35.840 --> 01:51:39.430
lowest Brahma realms with bunches of
01:51:39.440 --> 01:51:42.229
other heaven realms higher than him. So
01:51:42.239 --> 01:51:44.550
it's like the Buddhists are saying look
01:51:44.560 --> 01:51:48.790
at this these these brahinss are
01:51:48.800 --> 01:51:51.669
claiming Brahma is the highest when we
01:51:51.679 --> 01:51:54.629
Buddhists have got into such higher
01:51:54.639 --> 01:51:57.270
mental states higher meditative states
01:51:57.280 --> 01:51:59.430
that we can get into these realms way
01:51:59.440 --> 01:52:01.750
above Maha Brahma even though Maha
01:52:01.760 --> 01:52:04.149
Brahma is literally the personification
01:52:04.159 --> 01:52:06.709
of ultimate reality.
01:52:06.719 --> 01:52:08.950
So a lot of this stuff I mean it's like
01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:10.629
propaganda. I mean, you shouldn't take
01:52:10.639 --> 01:52:13.510
it too seriously necessarily. If you're
01:52:13.520 --> 01:52:15.750
just faith oriented, you want to believe
01:52:15.760 --> 01:52:19.109
it all like a medieval Roman Catholic in
01:52:19.119 --> 01:52:23.270
Europe or a modern Burmese villager.
01:52:23.280 --> 01:52:24.870
You just want to believe all of it. It's
01:52:24.880 --> 01:52:28.709
all gospel truth, then I mean, I might
01:52:28.719 --> 01:52:30.550
not be the the best person for you to be
01:52:30.560 --> 01:52:33.990
watching on YouTube for starters.
01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:36.950
Um I mean just having this stainless
01:52:36.960 --> 01:52:38.870
steel faith and believing all of it I
01:52:38.880 --> 01:52:41.830
mean it can serve some people you know
01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:43.910
it's like all those medieval Catholic
01:52:43.920 --> 01:52:47.109
saints all those Burmese sages a lot of
01:52:47.119 --> 01:52:50.149
the the earlier Thai ones
01:52:50.159 --> 01:52:52.310
I mean they did it just through this
01:52:52.320 --> 01:52:56.470
unquestioning faith which inspired them
01:52:56.480 --> 01:52:58.470
you know when you can't have any doubt
01:52:58.480 --> 01:53:01.189
at all that it's all true then you're
01:53:01.199 --> 01:53:05.910
less lukewarm about it
01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:07.430
But getting back to Cole's first
01:53:07.440 --> 01:53:09.510
question here.
01:53:09.520 --> 01:53:12.950
Yeah, it's like each of the four Janna
01:53:12.960 --> 01:53:16.149
has three corresponding Brahma realms
01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:18.310
with I'm pretty sure Mahab Brahma being
01:53:18.320 --> 01:53:20.629
corresponding to first Janna down at the
01:53:20.639 --> 01:53:22.310
bottom.
01:53:22.320 --> 01:53:25.189
And I mean that's that's pretty much all
01:53:25.199 --> 01:53:27.189
there is to say about it. I mean I don't
01:53:27.199 --> 01:53:28.950
remember the official names of these
01:53:28.960 --> 01:53:31.910
Brahma realms. I'm fairly skeptical of
01:53:31.920 --> 01:53:35.830
their objective empirical existence.
01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:38.629
Not that there aren't four Janna realms
01:53:38.639 --> 01:53:41.750
or four Jas. I mean, you can divide Jas
01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:43.910
up into four. In Abidama, they divide it
01:53:43.920 --> 01:53:47.030
up into five. The formless realms add
01:53:47.040 --> 01:53:49.910
new Jonas. They're sort of subsidiary to
01:53:49.920 --> 01:53:51.350
fourth Janna. They're considered to be
01:53:51.360 --> 01:53:53.430
sort of like additions to fourth Janna
01:53:53.440 --> 01:53:55.030
because they'd already settled on four
01:53:55.040 --> 01:53:59.910
Jonas in the in the Sutas.
01:53:59.920 --> 01:54:03.510
Oh, let's see
01:54:03.520 --> 01:54:05.350
what what else is there to say about
01:54:05.360 --> 01:54:08.390
this.
01:54:08.400 --> 01:54:10.070
See, let's just read the question again.
01:54:10.080 --> 01:54:11.750
What do you know about the polycanon
01:54:11.760 --> 01:54:13.669
teachings that pertain to the johnic
01:54:13.679 --> 01:54:17.189
attainments and their correlated rebirth
01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:19.030
in the various da realms? It wouldn't be
01:54:19.040 --> 01:54:21.270
da realms, it would be Brahma realms.
01:54:21.280 --> 01:54:22.550
That's where that's how you get into
01:54:22.560 --> 01:54:24.550
Brahma realms is through Janna. That's
01:54:24.560 --> 01:54:25.910
pretty much the only way to get into
01:54:25.920 --> 01:54:29.350
Brahma realms is to have
01:54:29.360 --> 01:54:32.629
gotten some Janna in this life. Not even
01:54:32.639 --> 01:54:34.310
necessarily mastered it. That would be
01:54:34.320 --> 01:54:36.390
like you master first Janna. That would
01:54:36.400 --> 01:54:37.910
get you up into the level of Maha
01:54:37.920 --> 01:54:39.510
Brahma, I think, if I remember
01:54:39.520 --> 01:54:41.350
correctly.
01:54:41.360 --> 01:54:43.910
Not just his his retinue and his his
01:54:43.920 --> 01:54:50.629
counselors, but the the big guy himself.
01:54:50.639 --> 01:54:52.629
So, yeah. And then there's like the
01:54:52.639 --> 01:54:55.430
formless Janna realms, like the formless
01:54:55.440 --> 01:54:59.189
Brahma realms supposedly correlate to
01:54:59.199 --> 01:55:01.669
the somewhat anacronistic
01:55:01.679 --> 01:55:04.790
four like formless
01:55:04.800 --> 01:55:06.310
genres.
01:55:06.320 --> 01:55:09.589
So in my opinion, the whole thing is is
01:55:09.599 --> 01:55:11.189
sort of cooked up after the Buddhist
01:55:11.199 --> 01:55:13.030
time. I would be surprised if the Buddha
01:55:13.040 --> 01:55:14.629
really taught this stuff. I won't just
01:55:14.639 --> 01:55:17.910
categorically deny it, but I would be
01:55:17.920 --> 01:55:20.790
mildly surprised if the Buddha really
01:55:20.800 --> 01:55:23.350
did teach, you know, the details of the
01:55:23.360 --> 01:55:26.629
31 plains of existence and how, you
01:55:26.639 --> 01:55:29.030
know, you you master this level of
01:55:29.040 --> 01:55:31.350
Janna, it's going to get you into that
01:55:31.360 --> 01:55:33.510
particular Brahma realm and the four
01:55:33.520 --> 01:55:35.189
formless Janna will get you into the
01:55:35.199 --> 01:55:39.910
formless Brahma realms. Even though like
01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:43.350
mention of the the formless realms
01:55:43.360 --> 01:55:45.750
goes all the way back at least
01:55:45.760 --> 01:55:49.350
historically or like legendarily
01:55:49.360 --> 01:55:50.790
to right after the Buddha became
01:55:50.800 --> 01:55:52.870
enlightened like the Buddha right after
01:55:52.880 --> 01:55:56.470
his enlightenment he's using the dva eye
01:55:56.480 --> 01:55:59.830
debauch you know clairvoyance to see who
01:55:59.840 --> 01:56:01.589
he should teach and first he's thinking
01:56:01.599 --> 01:56:03.589
of you know his first two teachers his
01:56:03.599 --> 01:56:05.990
first two meditation teachers and then
01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:08.550
he through, you know, the divine eye. He
01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:10.709
sees that they're up in formless Brahma
01:56:10.719 --> 01:56:14.229
realms. So that he can't he can't access
01:56:14.239 --> 01:56:15.510
them there and teach them because they
01:56:15.520 --> 01:56:19.669
don't have any sense organs.
01:56:19.679 --> 01:56:22.149
So it's it's it's complicated. I mean
01:56:22.159 --> 01:56:24.629
the evolution everything is impermanent.
01:56:24.639 --> 01:56:26.470
Everything changes over time. I mean all
01:56:26.480 --> 01:56:27.990
you have to do is just look at the early
01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:30.790
history of Christianity and you see that
01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:32.790
Christianity was mutating like a virus
01:56:32.800 --> 01:56:35.990
during its first century of existence.
01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:40.390
And it's similar in Buddhism like terra
01:56:40.400 --> 01:56:42.870
Buddhism. It mutated like a virus for
01:56:42.880 --> 01:56:44.950
its first I mean at least a hundred
01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:47.669
years. That was the first schisms
01:56:47.679 --> 01:56:49.270
occurred about 100 years after the time
01:56:49.280 --> 01:56:52.470
of the Buddha's passing away and still
01:56:52.480 --> 01:56:55.270
terabara Buddhism was mutating
01:56:55.280 --> 01:56:58.550
like Abidama didn't even exist yet until
01:56:58.560 --> 01:57:03.830
after the first schisms.
01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:05.589
So, it's it's kind of an academic
01:57:05.599 --> 01:57:07.669
question. Cole's first question here is
01:57:07.679 --> 01:57:09.990
somewhat academic or or dogmatic
01:57:10.000 --> 01:57:12.470
depending on how you want to look at it.
01:57:12.480 --> 01:57:13.830
Because if you want to believe that it's
01:57:13.840 --> 01:57:16.149
all true, then it's in the text right
01:57:16.159 --> 01:57:17.990
there, but you want to know the actual
01:57:18.000 --> 01:57:20.790
truth of the matter. You may might be a
01:57:20.800 --> 01:57:25.189
little more skeptical.
01:57:25.199 --> 01:57:27.189
So, I'm just going to move on to Cole's
01:57:27.199 --> 01:57:30.070
second question. Does the mind need to
01:57:30.080 --> 01:57:33.430
actively immerse in Janna at the time of
01:57:33.440 --> 01:57:35.589
death for that type of rebirth to occur
01:57:35.599 --> 01:57:38.149
according to the teachings? And I used
01:57:38.159 --> 01:57:40.950
to think about that also. It's like just
01:57:40.960 --> 01:57:45.270
having the ability to enter Janna,
01:57:45.280 --> 01:57:47.030
is that good enough? Or do you have to
01:57:47.040 --> 01:57:50.629
actually die in Janna in order for you
01:57:50.639 --> 01:57:53.589
to wind up in a Brahma realm?
01:57:53.599 --> 01:57:57.589
And one of the best indicators I know of
01:57:57.599 --> 01:57:59.430
for the first option would be the
01:57:59.440 --> 01:58:02.070
Godasuta. very strange and interesting
01:58:02.080 --> 01:58:04.870
Godasuta of the Samutin Nikkaya where
01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:07.669
God gets Janna and loses it and gets it
01:58:07.679 --> 01:58:09.750
and loses it and gets it and loses it
01:58:09.760 --> 01:58:12.149
until finally in a state of semide
01:58:12.159 --> 01:58:14.629
desperation maybe full fullon
01:58:14.639 --> 01:58:16.390
desperation
01:58:16.400 --> 01:58:20.149
he he's thinking if I die with Janna I'm
01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:23.189
guaranteed of a Brahma realm but if I
01:58:23.199 --> 01:58:26.310
die when I don't have Janna like I'm I
01:58:26.320 --> 01:58:28.550
haven't mastered it yet or you know I'm
01:58:28.560 --> 01:58:32.310
not able to access it, then there's no
01:58:32.320 --> 01:58:33.910
guarantees where I'm going to wind up. I
01:58:33.920 --> 01:58:35.589
could wind up in hell in a lower realm
01:58:35.599 --> 01:58:39.430
or something. And so he he selfdeleted,
01:58:39.440 --> 01:58:42.390
cutting his own throat with his razor
01:58:42.400 --> 01:58:46.790
um after he got Jonah the next time and
01:58:46.800 --> 01:58:49.030
he wound up becoming enlightened. So I
01:58:49.040 --> 01:58:51.830
mean, I assume he was was not in a
01:58:51.840 --> 01:58:54.790
johnic state when he's lying on his c
01:58:54.800 --> 01:58:56.629
with with the the straight razor in his
01:58:56.639 --> 01:58:59.510
hand. So presumably just based on that
01:58:59.520 --> 01:59:02.470
bit of evidence according to terra
01:59:02.480 --> 01:59:04.950
Buddhist tradition you just have to be
01:59:04.960 --> 01:59:08.390
in a state where you can access Janna
01:59:08.400 --> 01:59:10.070
you don't necessarily have to be
01:59:10.080 --> 01:59:13.030
absorbed in a johnic state at the moment
01:59:13.040 --> 01:59:14.709
of death in order to get into these
01:59:14.719 --> 01:59:16.149
states but you have to have a mental
01:59:16.159 --> 01:59:18.310
state that is open to Janna and
01:59:18.320 --> 01:59:20.470
accessible to it
01:59:20.480 --> 01:59:22.790
in order to get into these Brahma realms
01:59:22.800 --> 01:59:25.990
after you die technically speaking
01:59:26.000 --> 01:59:27.109
although
01:59:27.119 --> 01:59:31.430
At least a grain of of skepticism is
01:59:31.440 --> 01:59:34.149
maybe prudent in this case, unless you
01:59:34.159 --> 01:59:37.270
really are relying on fullon stainless
01:59:37.280 --> 01:59:39.830
steel faith in the whole system, in
01:59:39.840 --> 01:59:41.830
which case again you're probably
01:59:41.840 --> 01:59:45.990
watching the wrong videos.
01:59:46.000 --> 01:59:49.270
So let's just go on to Cole's third
01:59:49.280 --> 01:59:51.750
question, which is are these teachings
01:59:51.760 --> 01:59:53.589
from the Buddha or commentarial? And
01:59:53.599 --> 01:59:55.990
that is a false dichotomy
01:59:56.000 --> 01:59:59.109
because there's this middle ground of
01:59:59.119 --> 02:00:01.750
post you know after the lifetime of the
02:00:01.760 --> 02:00:04.709
Buddha but before the commentaries where
02:00:04.719 --> 02:00:07.589
the sutas are actually
02:00:07.599 --> 02:00:09.990
mutating like a virus or just the
02:00:10.000 --> 02:00:12.070
philosophy of Buddhism is mutating like
02:00:12.080 --> 02:00:15.109
a virus. systematizers are kind of
02:00:15.119 --> 02:00:17.750
locking stuff down into like the
02:00:17.760 --> 02:00:19.510
description of the four genres which is
02:00:19.520 --> 02:00:22.149
just a verbatim block of information
02:00:22.159 --> 02:00:25.430
that is just inserted into sutas. The 12
02:00:25.440 --> 02:00:27.430
nidana theory of padicha samopat would
02:00:27.440 --> 02:00:31.189
be another case of just the sort of a
02:00:31.199 --> 02:00:32.709
hard to understand teaching of the
02:00:32.719 --> 02:00:34.790
Buddha just gets crystallized into this
02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:37.030
block of words that just gets inserted
02:00:37.040 --> 02:00:40.870
into suta after suta.
02:00:40.880 --> 02:00:43.910
So, I don't think that these teachings
02:00:43.920 --> 02:00:46.390
necessarily came from the Buddha. I
02:00:46.400 --> 02:00:48.870
mean, maybe he may have kind of touched
02:00:48.880 --> 02:00:50.950
on it a little bit and then it just got
02:00:50.960 --> 02:00:52.550
elaborated
02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:55.430
into 31 plains of existence and the the
02:00:55.440 --> 02:00:58.950
three levels of of Brahma realms for
02:00:58.960 --> 02:01:01.910
each Janna and all this,
02:01:01.920 --> 02:01:04.950
but it's it's probably after the time of
02:01:04.960 --> 02:01:08.310
the Buddha, but before Buddha Goa.
02:01:08.320 --> 02:01:10.470
So it's not hasn't devolved into
02:01:10.480 --> 02:01:13.270
Buddhagosism yet, but it's it's in the
02:01:13.280 --> 02:01:17.990
sutas. It's in the poly sutas, but
02:01:18.000 --> 02:01:19.669
still just because something is in the
02:01:19.679 --> 02:01:21.589
polyutas does not mean that the Buddha
02:01:21.599 --> 02:01:23.910
himself necessarily taught it or
02:01:23.920 --> 02:01:27.350
endorsed it.
02:01:27.360 --> 02:01:30.550
So I'm guessing, you know, it it arose
02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:34.070
this idea arose. I mean, I'm unfamiliar
02:01:34.080 --> 02:01:36.470
with the other Hinayana schools and
02:01:36.480 --> 02:01:38.629
their opinions on the matter. It may be
02:01:38.639 --> 02:01:41.589
during the first hundred years of
02:01:41.599 --> 02:01:43.430
virus-like mutation of Buddhist
02:01:43.440 --> 02:01:45.510
philosophy that this arose so that it
02:01:45.520 --> 02:01:48.229
could still be in the core texts of the
02:01:48.239 --> 02:01:49.830
sutas.
02:01:49.840 --> 02:01:51.189
Just because something is in the core
02:01:51.199 --> 02:01:53.750
text, all that really means is that in
02:01:53.760 --> 02:01:58.310
all likelihood it was already like
02:01:58.320 --> 02:02:02.870
like set it set as scripture or official
02:02:02.880 --> 02:02:06.470
doctrine before the schism started and
02:02:06.480 --> 02:02:09.589
like the second council
02:02:09.599 --> 02:02:11.589
or maybe I guess the schism started
02:02:11.599 --> 02:02:13.910
after the second council.
02:02:13.920 --> 02:02:15.430
So approximately a hundred years after
02:02:15.440 --> 02:02:19.109
the time of the Buddha.
02:02:19.119 --> 02:02:21.350
Okay, I guess I answered that and then
02:02:21.360 --> 02:02:22.790
moving on to the next question WHICH IS
02:02:22.800 --> 02:02:25.669
THE LAST QUESTION. In fact, this
02:02:25.679 --> 02:02:30.390
question was asked um just shortly
02:02:30.400 --> 02:02:33.189
before I I started this video. So, this
02:02:33.199 --> 02:02:35.830
is from Yoshi Buouie and Yoshi Buouie
02:02:35.840 --> 02:02:39.589
says, "According to my research, memory
02:02:39.599 --> 02:02:42.470
isn't stored in a fixed location inside
02:02:42.480 --> 02:02:45.189
the brain. Rather, it is distributed
02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:47.350
throughout the brain via a web of
02:02:47.360 --> 02:02:49.990
interconnections between brain cells
02:02:50.000 --> 02:02:52.070
that are constantly reshaped by
02:02:52.080 --> 02:02:55.270
experience. These interconnections can
02:02:55.280 --> 02:02:57.990
of course be disconnected.
02:02:58.000 --> 02:03:00.470
Do you see a parallel between how memory
02:03:00.480 --> 02:03:03.189
as described above is created and how
02:03:03.199 --> 02:03:05.510
karma is created?
02:03:05.520 --> 02:03:08.070
Well, when I read this, the first thing
02:03:08.080 --> 02:03:09.910
that that came to my mind was a quote
02:03:09.920 --> 02:03:12.790
from Burton Russell that I wrote in my
02:03:12.800 --> 02:03:14.149
little notebook that I used to keep when
02:03:14.159 --> 02:03:16.310
I was a monk. I mean, this this notebook
02:03:16.320 --> 02:03:19.669
has been in several Burmese caves.
02:03:19.679 --> 02:03:21.430
And when I would read something
02:03:21.440 --> 02:03:23.830
interesting in a book that I didn't own,
02:03:23.840 --> 02:03:26.310
I would write it down in this notebook.
02:03:26.320 --> 02:03:29.189
And so, this is from human knowledge,
02:03:29.199 --> 02:03:33.589
its scope and limits by Bertin Russell.
02:03:33.599 --> 02:03:35.750
And so Bertin Russell says when a
02:03:35.760 --> 02:03:38.390
physiologist examines a brain he does
02:03:38.400 --> 02:03:40.950
not see thoughts. Therefore the brain is
02:03:40.960 --> 02:03:42.870
one thing and the mind which thinks is
02:03:42.880 --> 02:03:45.350
another. The fallacy in this argument
02:03:45.360 --> 02:03:47.669
consists in supposing that a man can see
02:03:47.679 --> 02:03:50.629
matter. Not even the ablest physiologist
02:03:50.639 --> 02:03:54.070
can perform this feat. His percept when
02:03:54.080 --> 02:03:57.510
he looks at a brain is an end is an
02:03:57.520 --> 02:04:00.629
event in his own mind and has only a
02:04:00.639 --> 02:04:02.709
causal connection with the brain that he
02:04:02.719 --> 02:04:05.750
fancies he is seeing. When in a powerful
02:04:05.760 --> 02:04:08.870
telescope he sees a tiny luminous dot
02:04:08.880 --> 02:04:11.270
and interprets it as a vast nebula
02:04:11.280 --> 02:04:13.430
existing a million years ago. He
02:04:13.440 --> 02:04:15.510
realizes that what he sees is different
02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:18.070
from what he infers. The difference from
02:04:18.080 --> 02:04:20.149
the case of a brain looked at through a
02:04:20.159 --> 02:04:23.030
microscope is only one of degree. There
02:04:23.040 --> 02:04:26.149
is exactly the same need of inference by
02:04:26.159 --> 02:04:28.550
means of the laws of physics from the
02:04:28.560 --> 02:04:31.990
visual datim to its physical cause. And
02:04:32.000 --> 02:04:34.390
just as no one supposes that the nebula
02:04:34.400 --> 02:04:36.709
has any close resemblance to a luminous
02:04:36.719 --> 02:04:39.510
dot, so no one should suppose that the
02:04:39.520 --> 02:04:41.750
brain has any close resemblance to what
02:04:41.760 --> 02:04:45.270
the physiologist sees.
02:04:45.280 --> 02:04:47.270
Amen.
02:04:47.280 --> 02:04:49.030
Although Burton Russell was still kind
02:04:49.040 --> 02:04:51.350
of a materialist. I mean, he was still
02:04:51.360 --> 02:04:53.669
um an advocate of scientism to some
02:04:53.679 --> 02:04:57.510
degree, especially in his later years.
02:04:57.520 --> 02:05:00.149
So, I mean, it's it's kind of a
02:05:00.159 --> 02:05:02.070
materialistic interpretation of how
02:05:02.080 --> 02:05:03.750
memory works. It's is kind of the point
02:05:03.760 --> 02:05:05.510
that I'm making here. And it's not
02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:08.470
necessarily an accurate or reliable
02:05:08.480 --> 02:05:10.070
description of how memory actually
02:05:10.080 --> 02:05:13.270
works. I mean, you cannot prove that
02:05:13.280 --> 02:05:15.030
there is a physical brain that even
02:05:15.040 --> 02:05:17.830
exists. Read George Barkley. He'll tell
02:05:17.840 --> 02:05:20.870
you.
02:05:20.880 --> 02:05:23.910
He'll explain it all.
02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:27.270
But, uh, I really do not see much of a
02:05:27.280 --> 02:05:29.030
parallel between how memory, as
02:05:29.040 --> 02:05:30.950
described above, is created and how
02:05:30.960 --> 02:05:33.750
karma is created. I mean, karma is just
02:05:33.760 --> 02:05:37.109
the momentum of your mental states.
02:05:37.119 --> 02:05:41.990
It's not some sort of holographic
02:05:42.000 --> 02:05:43.669
pattern
02:05:43.679 --> 02:05:45.910
kind of a thing like memory is supposed
02:05:45.920 --> 02:05:48.629
to be going with this interpretation of
02:05:48.639 --> 02:05:50.310
neuroysiology
02:05:50.320 --> 02:05:53.750
and psychology and so forth.
02:05:53.760 --> 02:05:56.709
So I would say the karma is much simpler
02:05:56.719 --> 02:05:59.189
you know it's just
02:05:59.199 --> 02:06:01.830
I mean it can I mean ultimately karma is
02:06:01.840 --> 02:06:03.669
very complicated because there's so much
02:06:03.679 --> 02:06:05.910
of it and it's you you can have
02:06:05.920 --> 02:06:08.390
complicated momentum
02:06:08.400 --> 02:06:11.750
but still as I've as I've said karma is
02:06:11.760 --> 02:06:15.750
really it's like you've got the virtual
02:06:15.760 --> 02:06:17.830
images contained in the block of marble
02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:21.030
that are act that actually can move.
02:06:21.040 --> 02:06:25.109
So it's the perception would correspond
02:06:25.119 --> 02:06:28.709
to the form of the image and volition
02:06:28.719 --> 02:06:31.830
which is karma corresponds to the
02:06:31.840 --> 02:06:34.709
movement and at the same time the kind
02:06:34.719 --> 02:06:36.390
of
02:06:36.400 --> 02:06:40.709
like momentum and stability the stab
02:06:40.719 --> 02:06:44.310
stability of the perception to still be
02:06:44.320 --> 02:06:46.950
essentially appear to be the same thing
02:06:46.960 --> 02:06:49.669
over time even though it's not. you
02:06:49.679 --> 02:06:52.950
know, it's it's sort of the movement and
02:06:52.960 --> 02:06:55.030
stability of the pattern at the same
02:06:55.040 --> 02:06:57.109
time.
02:06:57.119 --> 02:06:59.030
And so it's it seems like it's a very
02:06:59.040 --> 02:07:00.790
different principle from a kind of
02:07:00.800 --> 02:07:05.350
holographic memory in a presumed
02:07:05.360 --> 02:07:09.830
physical brain.
02:07:09.840 --> 02:07:11.990
And who knows, I mean the way memory
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:14.870
works even in science may be changed
02:07:14.880 --> 02:07:16.790
over time
02:07:16.800 --> 02:07:19.430
um through you know radical
02:07:19.440 --> 02:07:22.149
reinterpretations of
02:07:22.159 --> 02:07:28.069
basic assumptions.
02:07:28.079 --> 02:07:30.870
Yeah. So I mean if you see karma as a
02:07:30.880 --> 02:07:33.270
kind of momentum you know it's not a
02:07:33.280 --> 02:07:37.669
matter of patterns being stored in like
02:07:37.679 --> 02:07:40.550
a static object. I mean, it's it's got
02:07:40.560 --> 02:07:43.430
patterns, maybe complicated patterns,
02:07:43.440 --> 02:07:45.510
sort of like the complicated patterns
02:07:45.520 --> 02:07:48.870
allegedly forming a memory in the brain,
02:07:48.880 --> 02:07:50.709
but it just seems like it's it's
02:07:50.719 --> 02:07:53.030
comparing apples to oranges or comparing
02:07:53.040 --> 02:07:56.790
apples to to like, I don't know, wooden
02:07:56.800 --> 02:07:59.350
barrels or something.
02:07:59.360 --> 02:08:01.109
Yeah, it's just very different. I mean,
02:08:01.119 --> 02:08:03.270
I don't think the principle is really a
02:08:03.280 --> 02:08:05.510
parallel kind of a principle. You can
02:08:05.520 --> 02:08:07.589
find resemblances and you can find
02:08:07.599 --> 02:08:09.510
differences, but I don't think it's
02:08:09.520 --> 02:08:11.830
really a good analogy for how karma
02:08:11.840 --> 02:08:13.350
works.
02:08:13.360 --> 02:08:16.470
It's habit energy rather than and you
02:08:16.480 --> 02:08:18.790
could say that memory is also habit
02:08:18.800 --> 02:08:22.709
energy, but still I mean it's it doesn't
02:08:22.719 --> 02:08:26.069
have much to do with the like
02:08:26.079 --> 02:08:28.470
theoretical way in which it is stored in
02:08:28.480 --> 02:08:31.270
a brain. It's just the subjective
02:08:31.280 --> 02:08:33.750
experience of it.
02:08:33.760 --> 02:08:36.470
habit energy. So karma and memory could
02:08:36.480 --> 02:08:39.589
both be called habit energy. And I mean
02:08:39.599 --> 02:08:42.550
memory would be part of your karma. You
02:08:42.560 --> 02:08:44.310
know, it's part of the stabilizing
02:08:44.320 --> 02:08:47.109
pattern that that keeps your perceptions
02:08:47.119 --> 02:08:49.510
from just becoming something completely
02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:50.870
different. So that everything is
02:08:50.880 --> 02:08:52.709
unrecognizable from one moment to the
02:08:52.719 --> 02:08:54.229
next.
02:08:54.239 --> 02:08:55.830
But describing karma is very difficult.
02:08:55.840 --> 02:08:58.149
And the Buddha himself says in the text
02:08:58.159 --> 02:09:00.390
that trying to work out all the
02:09:00.400 --> 02:09:06.390
complexities of it can lead to insanity.
02:09:06.400 --> 02:09:09.589
So, as a way of avoiding insanity in
02:09:09.599 --> 02:09:12.069
myself and in others, I think I'm just
02:09:12.079 --> 02:09:15.109
going to call it good or good enough for
02:09:15.119 --> 02:09:17.669
now and apologize to Yoshi Buouie and
02:09:17.679 --> 02:09:20.950
everybody else that may be dissatisfied
02:09:20.960 --> 02:09:23.830
with my answers, but I did the best I
02:09:23.840 --> 02:09:28.390
could, I guess. And so
02:09:28.400 --> 02:09:30.310
like and subscribe if you have not done
02:09:30.320 --> 02:09:33.350
so already or even if you don't like it.
02:09:33.360 --> 02:09:35.350
I mean you can still subscribe you know
02:09:35.360 --> 02:09:38.470
you just hate watch. I guess some people
02:09:38.480 --> 02:09:40.709
do it
02:09:40.719 --> 02:09:42.790
and look at my URL links below which
02:09:42.800 --> 02:09:45.350
includes my new book
02:09:45.360 --> 02:09:48.069
Memoirs from Myanmar which is much more
02:09:48.079 --> 02:09:51.350
autobiographical than my other books.
02:09:51.360 --> 02:09:53.030
And uh if you have any questions you
02:09:53.040 --> 02:09:55.830
think I can answer, I mean you probably
02:09:55.840 --> 02:09:57.669
get some idea of the kind of stuff I can
02:09:57.679 --> 02:10:01.430
answer from this Q&A. Although I also
02:10:01.440 --> 02:10:03.189
have have some more familiarity with
02:10:03.199 --> 02:10:06.709
like western philosophy and so forth. Um
02:10:06.719 --> 02:10:09.350
just feel free to ask and no more than
02:10:09.360 --> 02:10:11.910
three questions per person per episode,
02:10:11.920 --> 02:10:15.350
please. And for crying out loud, be
02:10:15.360 --> 02:10:18.360
happy.
