Ready For Bed

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Scholars Permanent
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Learners Permit Learners Permit
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Learners Permit Learners Permit
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Learners Permit
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Hello and welcome to the Learners Permit podcast, a show where four friends lock themselves in a room and forcefully educate each other on the topics they're most passionate about.
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Each week, one host selects a subject to educate the other three about in hopes of broadening their woefully narrow horizons.
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I'm your host, Liam. I wrote the book on bad ideas, but my co-hosts love to pull from it.
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I love that one.
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How are you? I'm Cody. That was Austin.
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Thank you. Thank you, Cody. Wonderful start. Wonderful. Wonderful start.
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Good job, boys.
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We're we're well, here's the big thing. Here's the big thing.
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We're recording this the night before the election, the eve of the election, and Adam's not here.
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He's not here, boys.
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Why do you think he why do you think he made it conditional last episode when he explained, hey, I'm probably not going to be around for a little while.
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It's because if a certain person wins, he's going to be pretty busy, let's just say.
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And if the other person wins, he'll be less busy and he'll be back on the show.
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But he had a Mr. Boss moment from Smiling Friends where it's like, if he wins that I'm probably just going to shoot him.
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We don't put it so plainly. We don't put it so plainly, Austin. That's all I want to say.
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But anyway, we're down a man and we're breaking format a little bit.
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I'm quoting Smiling Friends. It's a quote from Smiling Friends. I'll show you. I'll show you guys.
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We're breaking format a little bit this week.
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There's three of us. And this is a conversation that sort of popped up in a previous episode and actually sort of overtook the entire topic of that previous episode.
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The Barkley Marathon.
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Yes, the Barkley Marathon unfortunately didn't get its due on this show because Austin was very passionate about something that surprised me.
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So, Austin, do you want to share what that hypothetical was that really got you going?
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Yeah. So as everybody knows, I'm a huge Max Payne fan and one of my friends in high school growing up was a huge Batman fan.
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And I don't know how we got on the topic, but basically he said that Batman will beat the shit out of Max Payne.
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And I was like, bro, he literally is the most accurate human being on planet Earth.
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He would just shoot Batman in his eye sockets and then in his mouth for like sport after he killed him while Batman was like jumping down from the roof, trying to kill him and jump on him like he does in the Arkham games.
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So it was like a whole high school argument that we had.
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I forgot to look for, I actually drew some art for an art class project for it and I meant to look for it while I was at the house today.
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And I forgot to.
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You drew some art of them fighting?
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No, it's just like more of a, I don't know how to explain it, more of just like an homage to the both of them.
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It's just, it's all done in black and white. Like there's no, it's not a detailed drawing.
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That is cool. You should find that so that we can attach it here somewhere.
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But I just wanted to let you.
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The episode title if you want.
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Yeah, sure. I just wanted to let you know that we live in the modern age, Austin.
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We live in the modern age so you don't have to worry about not bringing the art that you made because we have artificial intelligence to be able to make such a thing.
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So if you want it, I just posted a link to an AI generated YouTube video, which is, and we'll post the link in the description. I'm sure it is a video of Max Payne versus the Batman AI generated voice dialogue.
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What the fuck?
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Why did you not send this before?
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What do you mean?
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I would have watched this today.
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No, it's okay. It's okay. This is more for private viewing, you know, for your enjoyment.
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This was posted 11 days ago.
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Yeah. The internet is, it's the production speed is so quick now.
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But you know what I love about this is that the AI generation is so scary good that I don't know how to word this.
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I'm not trying to give props to the AI, but it knows enough that when it's generating Max Payne, it's generating James McCaffrey's face as Max Payne, not like the weird one.
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Yeah, not Sam Lake like his weird side smile like, like Max Payne one. It's doing James McCaffrey, which I think is pretty impressive.
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But yeah, that's I'm going to have to watch this. It's fucking eight minutes long. Who made this?
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Did you? No, I didn't make it. I'm not an artificial intelligence.
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I am a suboptimal intelligence is what I am.
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I didn't know if you if you prompted it to do that.
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Only spiritually. That's all.
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But yeah, so I just think I think this is the subject we're talking about this week.
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Max Payne versus Batman, you know, and I am a big fan of the movie, specifically the movie, The Batman.
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A lot of people crazy about the Nolan trilogy, you know, The Dark Knight and all that.
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Those are fine. But I really I saw The Batman when it was in theaters.
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It was three hours and 20 minutes long, which is insane.
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It's long. I didn't know how long it was when I first started it.
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Like I thought it was going to be just, you know, just under two hours or something.
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And then I was like, holy shit, I got to go to bed. I'm only an hour in and there's still two hours left.
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Yep. I saw in theaters in in a theater with a family of what seemed to be a family of developmentally disabled people who were sitting in our seats when we showed up.
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And then we very politely asked them to move down. They did. They moved down not enough seats.
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So we had to move them again. And then the one one of the guys was he had was reclining in the seats because they got those nice reclining seats.
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And he was kicking his feet during the movie and farting. Oh, and then when we average Batman, when you say the classic Batman villain, the fart, you see the fart.
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When you see when you saw the first shot of Wayne Tower, he said very loudly to the entire theater, look, my it's Wayne Tower.
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It was a good time. It was a good time. I actually made the experience much more enjoyable, honestly, just to see the joy on that guy's face.
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But yeah, we I saw it in theaters and I just something about it really spoke to me because it's the first freak ass Batman movie, the first movie that really I think acknowledges the reality that a man who dresses up in a big rubber suit and beats people up at night and brings them to jail where they will inevitably just get released because there was no due process.
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You know, like I think I think it's the first movie to actually correctly address that. So when when you were saying, oh, Max Payne versus the Batman, Max Payne would kill him.
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I was like, I think there's an interesting conversation to be had here because Max Payne is like you said, he's a crack shot with a gun.
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He's a former detective for undercover detective, right, who has like the actual Foley vibe of like he's the chiefs pain in the ass.
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He's always causing problems and stuff, even before tragedy hits him.
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Yeah, it's a he he was originally a New York detective. And then after his family gets killed by a designer drug named V, he joins the D.A. and vows to revenge his family. So it's revenge his family.
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Yeah, I use that because Metal Gear uses that. But he does get revengeance for his family. Yeah, he does get revengeance for his family.
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But so the whole thing is a like a conspiracy thriller and the motives are kind of the same. Right. Whereas like Max joins because of the death of his what is it called like when you marry into a family like his in-laws.
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No, not his in-laws, his his direct family's wife and his child. Right. So it's not it's not parents, but it's still the same deal.
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But Max does it in a way that does scare me a little bit as an adult of like, oh, yeah, I'm going to do this and I'm going to go to great lengths as a sworn officer of the law to any regard that I can to make sure that I find the people that killed my family.
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Right. So that is almost just as bad as the vigilante ism in the way of like, yeah, I'm just going to go completely outside the law and do whatever I want and beat up all these people.
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Like, that's all I could think about the whole time during the Batman was like when I came on a call Commissioner Gordon. But when Detective Gordon at the time, Lieutenant Gordon, or the lieutenant Gordon, when he was talking to the Batman
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and he's like about to stick his neck out for me, he's like, you're going to punch me in the face and you're going to run.
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I was thinking about this and I was like, you're going to sacrifice your whole career.
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Okay. Right now, I'm like a hunch.
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Hold the thought on that because I actually have a whole thing I want to talk about with Lieutenant Gordon and his relationship to the GCPD.
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But no, so you're right. Like there is a big parallel between Batman's quest for vengeance and Max Payne's quest for vengeance. I would argue that Max Payne's is almost worse though, because at least Batman, while he is a billionaire and is a psychopath, at least he's operating as a private citizen.
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Like all of his actions are of his own accord and through his own means. And yes, he's got way more means than anybody else in the world, basically.
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But like he doesn't have the backing of the police force who witness him murder people relatively indiscriminately and then just kind of go, oh, damn it.
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Damn it, Max. It only gets worse as I think the one that probably is the least egregious in that regard in the Max Payne games is the third one because he's not part of a police department.
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He's part of a personal security detail. But in the first two games, you get he's an undercover. The first one, the whole thing is advertised as like a man with nothing to lose, a fugitive from the law.
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But like they basically frame because he's an undercover DEA agent using his real name for some reason.
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Well, it's the Bond, James Bond type deal, you know.
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Pain, international super spy. My reputation precedes me. Well, that's that's my favorite thing about these games is he like waltzes into the den of these criminals.
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And then they basically invite him in. He goes to talk to the head guy.
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And then they're like, I'm so glad you showed up. I was waiting for you. Now I'm going to kill you.
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And then he shoots his way out of this fucking drug infested den.
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But so the first one, instead of just turning himself into the police like this isn't this isn't a departed moment here.
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Like this isn't this isn't Matt Damon trying to bring somebody out.
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It's like, sure, there's a mole in the in the DEA and they killed his partner.
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But like also, if if you put someone undercover in, why is it such a trope for them to be like, only one guy knows about it?
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Only one guy because we don't want to get out like that sounds like a recipe for disaster because I think his name is Alex or something.
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His his handler, like the guy that knew that he was in the criminal organization, is shot and killed.
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And so now he's his his leap in logic is like, oh, no one knows that I'm actually a cop.
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So I'm just going to go after all the people and solve this case when in reality, I'm like, OK, as soon as that happens, I'm going to the police department.
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I'm like, hey, my name is Max Payne. Look at my phone on your payroll.
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Here's my Social Security number. You're paying me.
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Yeah, like I'm actively getting paid by you. I went to the academy.
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It's pretty easy. And it's like the justification.
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Like once you get to the end of the game, right, you're like, OK, sure.
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If you had all the all the pieces to the puzzle at the very beginning, then you might be like, oh, well, Nicole Horn is a huge piece of shit.
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Who's like owning a pharmaceutical company who's working with the military and embezzling funds and all this crazy conspiracy.
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Yeah, big conspiracy. And I love that stuff.
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But it's like to get to that point, he had to take a whole bunch of leaps of faith and like basically lean into the fugitive from the law thing and just go crazy with it.
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And it's just a wild story. And I think you're right in the way that like if you're a sworn officer of the law, you should probably conduct yourself a little bit more accordingly than than Bruce Wayne, the psychotic billionaire that wanders around with.
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And they don't even really talk about why he's as smart or strong as he is in the Batman.
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They just assume that you kind of.
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Let's let OK, so I think we can all acknowledge you that there's a lot of parallels between Max Payne and Batman.
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They both lost their family, it traumatized them, and then it then sets them off on this sort of psychotic rampage for vengeance.
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They do it in different ways, but ultimately the outcome ends up being pretty similar.
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They have different skills, obviously. Batman is rich.
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Max is good at shooting guns.
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You know, I would say those are their main skills, because at the end of the day, they're both just regular guys.
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You know, for the most part, if you took those two things away, they would just be normal human beings that you could squish with a hammer.
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You know, so like, you know, if they fall the wrong way, they could die. They're not like Superman.
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Do you think Superman can break his neck in the shower?
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Excuse me one more time.
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Like he falls and breaks his neck.
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's the one inducing the injury, right?
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Like he could break his own finger, right?
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I think so.
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The only way I can imagine Superman breaking his own neck if he is like, he's oh, no, I'm shampoo and conditioning.
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And he like gets a grip and just breaks his fucking own neck.
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That's the only way I can imagine it happening.
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Just scrubs too hard. Does that mean that Peter Parker can do the same thing?
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Can you imagine if he cut his own dick like he's scrubbing?
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He's scrubbing his balls. He's like karate chops his dick off.
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Superman or Peter Parker?
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Am I the only one?
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I think you're the only one to go to.
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What if Spider-Man's hands got stuck to his nuts and he would go rip open?
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OK, I see what you're saying. Like fucking traumatic scrotal injury. I see. I see what you mean.
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That would be bad. And I bet Spider-Man has done that to himself. But we're not talking about Spider-Man.
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We're talking Batman and Max Payne. Save that thought for another episode, Cody.
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We're talking Batman and Max Payne. And I wanted to bring up that they're very similar because when we had that discussion about who would beat who, you and I disagreed and you got very passionate.
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Because I said, well, Batman could develop a lower half of his visor so there's no exposed part of his face.
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And then what would Max Payne do? Which is valid, but also you have to know that Max Payne was amazingly good at shooting bullets.
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But, you know, if we wanted to get into the nitty gritty of it, of any version of Batman versus Max Payne in whatever his height is in your mind,
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you talk about the fact that Batman has multiple villains that he faces off against whose specifically only ability is that they're really good at shooting guns.
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Yeah, but I just don't think they ever implement them. Like they build them up like that, right?
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Like Deadshot theoretically should be able to do the exact same thing. They always talk about like how meticulous he is about choosing grain weight and his like his his optics are all fucking linked to his helmet and all this stuff.
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You know what? I think that he's just bluffing. I think that Deadshot, I think Deadshot just says all this shit and he's like he might be an Olympic level shooter, right?
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Like he might be amazing. He's a Ukrainian guy in the jeans with no ear protection.
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Yeah, I know that was a Turkish guy. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Turkish guy.
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Yeah, he's just a Turkish mechanic that went to the Olympics and fucking I think I think Deadshot just has all that fucking shit on for like for show.
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But he just likes to dress up. Yeah. Well, because if he was capable of doing what he says he's capable of doing and what he showed, he showed a lot of skill in the times he showed up in the Batman series.
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But Max Payne can literally put a bullet anywhere that he wants to.
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Like when you play the games, aside from maybe the first and second one because they have a little bit of bullet spread in them.
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But by the time you get to the third one, the rounds literally go exactly where you put them.
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Like that that little old circle dot. And if you don't use the just the dot in Max Payne 3, you're a psychopath and I don't want to talk to you.
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I mean, Austin, I brought up the Deadshot thing not because I wanted to discuss it because I wanted to point out that if you were to take Batman in his totality, it'd be way too wide of a conversation.
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You'd have way too many hypotheticals and all this stuff. Yeah. Right. You know, Max Payne's got three games and what? Like maybe some spin off comics or something.
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Not much. Yeah, he's got three games, one really shitty fucking movie.
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And then he has that he has promotional comics that came out for Max Payne 3.
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And that's basically just a little it's a little prologue to Max Payne 3 is basically it.
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So our thinking with this discussion was that we would boil it down to just two very specific versions of the characters.
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Right. OK. And those those specific versions are Max Payne from Max Payne 3 versus Batman from the Batman.
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Yes. Featured featuring Robert Pattinson, Edward Cullen.
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Oh, yes. Sorry. Robert Pattinson, if you will. Yes. Yes.
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So I replayed Max Payne 3 in prep for this because I had played like half of it way back when maybe a couple of years after it came out and it had been a long time.
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I didn't remember much. The moment that I started the game, I realized that this conversation was going to be a lot less of a debate and more of just a general discussion about how crazy similar these two versions of these characters are.
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Because Max Payne 3 starts with him binge drinking and taking pills in a shitty dingy apartment in his underwear brand new apartment.
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Yeah. Crying to himself for seven minutes. Just just like belligerent shots of him just drinking and crying and farting in an apartment basically.
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But as far as like how that is shot, I think it's awesome.
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Like I think that intro is fucking amazing. Like between the music and like the hard cuts and shit or just like that one longing shot of him looking at the duffel bag knowing like, hey, I've got to not only am I going to unpack my life here, but I know that that the photo of my family is sitting in that duffel bag.
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And the moment that I unpack that shit literally like and emotionally, I'm going to have to deal with it.
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And I actually love how they set that up. And then as soon as he does that, he looks at it and he doesn't take his bag bag apart and start putting things out.
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He goes to the fucking liquor store. He goes to the corner store and he grabs fucking alcohol. So I think that the symbolism for that is done beautifully.
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So it's not subtle in the slightest, but I think it does the exact same.
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It showcases this is a guy who cannot face his trauma head on.
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Right. Yeah. Now you want and Cody also rewatched.
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You watched the Batman for the first time in prep for this.
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Yeah. Do you remember how the movie starts?
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Yeah. So, um, well, OK, so maybe this isn't exactly how it starts. Is this the face paint people? Right.
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So it starts with voiceover from Batman reading from his diary, talking about how he's not sure that he's made any kind of a difference.
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Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like walking. He's walking in the rain.
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I don't know if any of this is doing anything. Yes. Yes.
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And it's him suiting up to go beat the shit out of a bunch of Joker esque looking people who are about to mug a guy.
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But it is literally him getting ready to go do exactly. So his alcohol is dressing up in a big rubber suit and beating the shit out of strangers.
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Whereas Max is getting drunk, doing pills and shooting people to death.
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And both of them are looking for answers, right? Any way that they can justify it.
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But the the funny thing to me about the Robert Pattinson thing was they tried to go a little bit more realistic of how Batman gets around.
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They don't default to the Batmobile because that would also be really unhinged.
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They default to like, oh, yeah, he he dresses up like a motorcyclist and wanders around on his bike, which introduces.
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Well, it introduces a whole host of other problems that I have. Right.
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Like his his bat suit fits in the backpack.
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Yeah. What if you have suits around the city?
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How long does it take him to change into the bat suit?
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The movie is is not super interested in exploring that, although to the effect of how long does it take him to change into it?
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You don't see much of that, but you do see him changing out of it because when he takes the mask off, he gets home.
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He's got the fucking the black face, grease, the grease paint under like all over his eyes.
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And he just looks like a psychopath.
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How long does that shit take to get off?
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So actually, the eyes is the worst part of it.
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So the fact that if he had to like he there, I don't remember exactly,
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but there's moments in the movie where he leaves his Batman and then shows up to talk to somebody and his face is clear.
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Fuck no, dude. So we would there's like a common joke that went around.
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They don't do that really at all in the movie.
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I don't think that there's a single instance where he is Batman and then quickly has to change to become.
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But I mean, like the next day, right?
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Like the next day he'll go and talk to Alfred or whatever in the army.
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There's like a running joke when. Yeah, right.
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When we came back from like the field or whatever, they made us wear fucking face paint and you come back and everybody the next day would have like panic at the disco fucking emo boy eye eye sockets.
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Like it takes a long time to get that shit out of like the depressed areas on your face and shit.
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When I put my costume paint thing on that line with the marks, I scrubbed my face for 20 minutes before going to bed that night. Yeah, fucking come off.
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Then the next morning I spent another 20 minutes. My face is still dry.
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It's been a week and it's been a week and a half.
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Now, here's what I would need to say in response to baby wipes or baby wipes are the best way to get it off.
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Well, that's what you think. That's what you think.
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And not to put too fine a point on it, but poor we're talking about Bruce Wayne Playboy billionaire.
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Okay, he's probably got access to the most designer state of the art cleansers in the whole makeup.
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Jeffree Star makeup remover. Absolutely.
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Absolutely. He's probably working directly with whatever Gotham's equivalent of Kim Kardashian is to get the most high profile makeup remover so he can get his shit off.
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Yeah, I just think both of these guys are fucked up. They're totally fucked in the head.
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Do you think? And one of the other things, I think it's well, the answer is yes.
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But I also think in both of their cases, it's far too late for that.
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Max would die from cirrhosis of the liver far before he could ever even find a therapist phone number.
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You know, it's just the truth. He found the sex hotline.
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Like so he literally so in lieu of therapy and Max Payne to he calls a sex hotline and they give out like three names of the women that are on the line that you can choose from.
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Right. And so in Max Payne to our names, I, by the way, if candy might have been one of them, I don't remember.
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But in the first game, Max thinks that Mona, who's one of the characters, who's like a hit woman, I guess is the proper term that works for the mob.
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And she ends up helping him at the end of the game and she gets shot and presumably dies in an elevator.
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And then the elevator doors shut all dramatic and the elevator goes down and he's all like, oh, she died.
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I can't believe it. This is awful. And that gives him like one more thing to be upset about.
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Right. Like this woman helped me in my hour of need to go take down this pharmaceutical company.
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It's my fault. So in the second game, he's like he's working through that and he calls a sex phone line and one of the girls names happens to be Mona.
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So he presses like, hey, three for Mona. I want to talk to her.
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I'll I'll send you guys a clip of what goes on in it.
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He literally she's she starts talking like, hey, how you doing?
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And he immediately goes like, they're all dead, but it didn't fix any of my problems.
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Do you think that somebody could come back from something like this?
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Like, am I can I still be safe? Like literally that level of stuff.
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How do you fix something like that? How do you make amends? I thought it would help. Just give me your credit card number and I can listen to you all night. Killing them all made it worse. It didn't bring them back. Hey, what are you? Some kind of weirdo?
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It is really funny because him just like not directly addressing what is actually weighing on his conscience and calling a sex line. Honestly, it's it's very similar to the beginning of the Batman when the mayor gets murdered and then Batman shows up to the crime scene.
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And they're all the cops are like, what the like what the fuck are you doing here?
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And then Gordon's like, he's good. And then and then Batman goes in and proceeds to stare at the mayor's son who's being consoled after the murder of his father. Just silently stare at the kid for like such a long.
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And I thought like I forgot that it was this long. It's actually so long that Gordon says to him, we really got to go, man. We got it. We got to get out of here.
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Do you think Gordon thinks that he's a wow. I wouldn't. I couldn't tell you. Honestly, I doubt that, though, because Gordon later on the film says you're the only one that I trust.
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Yeah, I was about to say Gordon ends up trusting him impeccably to the point where presumably he's worked with most of those guys on the force for years for years.
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And like I grew up around a lot of cops that they have a pretty tight group. And for Gordon to be like, yeah, I know Joey that I get beers with at the fucking bar after every shift.
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No, I don't trust that guy. He's going to be in the horde of cops that are going to be chasing this crazy dude that I really like that I'm going to help escape.
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That scene is literally like waves of cops like falling over each other.
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Fuck do they know exactly where he's going? Also, they're just opening fire in the middle of a goddamn precinct with civilians and like secretaries carrying papers.
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They're all they're all corrupt grease balls. They're all corrupt. I mean, that is literally what they are.
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They're all on the payroll of the Falcone family, you know.
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But but we know that that's not true because at the end of the movie when Gordon's like not all of us and they're still like dudes. So you have to imagine that there was there were regular clean cops in that group that were just whipping out their glocks and shooting up a spiral staircase.
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So so here's what I wanted. I wanted to describe the loosely describe the plot of both of these pieces of media before we got to this point. But I think we just have to address it because we're here now. So Gordon implicitly trust Batman in the Batman movie.
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And it's established that Batman's only been operating for almost two years at this point because he's in his second year of being Batman. So he hasn't been doing for that for that long. So in that time he has somehow gained the trust of Gordon and only Gordon in the police department.
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Yeah. And enough so that he put a fucking bat signal. That's what I wanted to get to. How the fuck did Gordon get a bat signal built when nobody else in the in the entire precinct trust Batman or has the same relationship to him.
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Batman. He's not the commissioner. He could not have gotten that Batman. That would be way too many questions.
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I just spent $23,000 of the city taxpayer money so I can put in this giant spotlight. We can get this vigilante to show up maybe.
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And in this in this version the Gotham City Police Department like whatever the head precinct is called has a little bit of the case of Resident Evil here where it looks like it's a fucking old museum and it's all like very gothic looking.
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Art Deco look. Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. I mean it's it's like aping the classic you know almost like the animated series. I love you guys.
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What's that? No the style of the architecture. But yeah. So that's when I rewatch the movie that was my one question from the whole thing. My one gripe with the movie is how the fuck did they get the bat signal built when nobody trusts him except Gordon.
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As for Gordon trusting him implicitly over all the other cops I have a very simple answer for that. It's because the movie shows us that Gordon is a really fucking shady detective too.
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So Batman is a really bad detective in the Batman like like to the point where he does not solve any of the riddles that the movie follows Batman as he is investigating with Gordon a series of murders committed by the Riddler played by Paul Dano who's great.
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Yep. And Batman is trying to solve all these riddles and he just doesn't solve any of them. In fact I would say that a good half of the movie is him trying to chase down a specific clue.
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A birthday card that says El Rata Alada and Gordon reads it off the birthday card to him because the Riddler has been leaving these birthday cards and he says you know hey does that mean anything to you or he says that to Gordon and Gordon says yeah stool pigeon.
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Stool pigeon. Okay. That's your first thing. Rat with wings. Yeah stool pigeon. That's a term for stool pigeon. That's for sure. And then instead of stupid they think stool pigeon. Oh it must be you know like some kind of lackey but then they also go oh stool pigeon.
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A rat with wings. That must be a penguin. Penguin. And it takes them going and catching up to the penguin which by the way they inadvertently kill multiple people presumably.
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Oh there's a giant pile up on the highway where where where the penguin rams into a tanker truck that then you know falls over and caused a massive explosion on the highway.
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Multiple people die. Almost guaranteed Batman does not stop to save them. Instead he jumps his car over the big explosion on the highway and catches the penguin only for the penguin to then tell him rat with wings.
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Are you fucking stupid. Do you not speak Spanish.
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Rat with wings is you buddy. I love that just some random fucking like mob guys like what are you fucking.
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Low level grito putting Batman in his place. You can't speak Spanish. What the fuck. Well to be fair Alfred was the one that was like my Spanish is a little bit rusty. Here you go.
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Yeah but so I'm not going to shit on Alfred because he solves every other goddamn fucking riddle like literally Alfred just solves every problem to the point where they had to blow him up so that he didn't get any more help like they literally were like oh fucking Alfred's too good at solving all this shit like fucking.
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Robert Pattinson stayed up all night trying to figure out what the cipher was and Alfred was like oh did you try this and he's like yeah I tried it but it didn't work because I knew is going to be too easy that's way too easy of an answer and Alfred's like just I'm going to try it.
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Yeah I'm just going to try it. Let's see what happens and then he takes like 20 minutes to try it the way that he said and guess what he fucking solves it. I don't even remember and he's like hey look Wayne I got you this thing or Bruce I got you this fucking I got you the cipher and he's like what did you do is like I tried the thing that you said was going to be too easy.
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And that's how it worked. So the whole time Alfred's just overpowered. To be fair to Batman there and I'm not trying to say this to be like he's a good detective because he's not. And I'm to paint the relationship between him and Alfred in this movie just for listeners who haven't seen it. When Batman gets back from that first scene of the movie he's greeted by Alfred who basically says best way and like you might want to try to like pay attention to some of the business stuff and like tend to that because your family's fortune is in the business.
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And I worry about you you know going out there and just focusing so much on this and then Bruce Wayne's response to this is you're not my dad. Like literally you're not my dad. I don't think you wear those cufflinks like that. You're not part of this family. He's just like a child. But with the cipher in particular though when Alfred says oh I was in the military you know we're doing business stuff.
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It's just a cipher. So here's what it is. Batman does come and say well what if it was just just the ones that are decoded. What if we just try to see what it looks like if we just do the easy stuff that we already figured out and then that was OK. Because while the Batman is not a good detective he's just a good detective. And I'm not trying to say that.
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I'm just saying that. So here's what it is. Batman does come and say well what if it was just just the ones that are decoded. What if we just try to see what it looks like if we just do the easy stuff that we already figured out and then that was OK. Because while the Batman is not a good detective the Riddler is also not very good at making riddles in this movie which is wonderful.
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They're not like the traditional like like Batman's excuse me the Riddler's like riddles in the original Batman like rhymed or playful or like add more substance to them. This one's literally like what's what's black and blue all over the mayor when I blow his ass.
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Yeah right. It's just like no you idiot it's actually this and then they like figure it's like I don't even know. It's like the what do liars do when they die. They lie still. Yeah they like that's like that's a dad. That's not a riddle. Yeah.
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Yeah. Like that's OK. Well actually that's a bad example because that's pretty on par with with a riddle that the classic Riddler would probably have honestly like that was maybe the only one in the movie that that would fit. But you know there's a reason for that. There's a reason that the riddles are not playful. It's because the Riddler in this movie is a YouTuber in cell.
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Dude I actually have 500 subscribers. He is massively influential. And did you guys pay attention to the chat when you were when they were showing like the recover. So but this is what's really sad about this right. When I first saw what his costume was I was like one.
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What the fuck. It's just like a whole bunch of blacked out shit. And the first thing that I noticed was wow that's like an extreme cold weather combat mask that he's wearing. That's fucking gross to the point where even when I was in the army and we accidentally ordered like a whole bunch of them.
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The supply and see I was like oh dude what the fuck. I didn't mean to order these because the NSN number and for anyone that doesn't know it's a national stock number. The number was one off from what he was trying to order. So he accidentally ordered like a hundred count of these fucking masks.
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And the whole time we were making jokes like this looks like something that a fucking serial killer or like some random fucking killer would be wearing right. And then here it is in a fucking Batman movie and I immediately clocked it. And then when you watch the chat when they're all like hey bro I stand behind you bro.
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Get on it bro. In the in the chat somebody put oh he's wearing a cold weather combat mask. You can get them at Gotham City Surplus. And I was like oh my god. That's awesome. Call out. Call out. I thought it was so funny. I was like god damn it am I the incel in the chat.
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The movie the movie is 100 percent aware of how it's portraying the character. Oh yeah. This is the first movie that has active contempt for the concept of Batman and the character of Batman I think. And not in like a bad way in a very good way because it actually grapples with the reality of what this guy would be like.
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A weird smelly freak and his villain naturally is a guy who you spend the whole movie thinking that he's like trying to target like Bruce Batman thinks that oh Bruce Wayne's the target. He's going to he's going to try to get me Batman after he gets Bruce Wayne.
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But no the whole movie is the Riddler literally writing cards to the Batman trying to be like we're in this together buddy like we're friends. We mean the same. We're doing the same stuff you know. You're my friend.
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Yeah. Also I know the thing about you are except he doesn't know. Yeah. Which is the funniest part is that he has no idea who Batman is. Well because he was guessing right. Like he didn't. He did not know there was any connection between Bruce Wayne and Batman.
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The whole fucking thing is that he sends the bomb to Bruce Wayne. It blows up Alfred. The next clue has something to do with a bat. Oh I think is it is it that's when the orphanage happens or is it do they get back to the orphanage to the bomb.
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Yeah. Okay yeah. The bomb goes off on his way back from the orphanage because then then he meets his band because Batman abandoned the fuck out of Gordon.
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He's like I'm getting out of here. But also what the fuck like you're telling me that the crack heads that live in the orphanage allowed the Riddler to show up in his in his fucking goddamn GIMP suit and set up a projector and he was like don't mind me guys just I'm going to put this in the other room like just don't go in there for a while.
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Like I'm going to play this. It's going to get really annoying. It might be going for hours but just don't touch it. Don't touch it because if you touch it it's going to ruin it. They're on they're all on drops. They're all high out of their mind. You know it's established.
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They're junkies. They're drop heads. Yeah come on. But you're telling me you're telling me if there's a whole fucking platoons worth of guys who are high in another room and they hear somebody fucking around with a fucking projector and a stereo system.
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They're not going to go fuck with that shit. No. What do you mean no. They can't tell. Yeah but they're not. They're busy hooting. They're busy hooting in the orphanage. Did you see them scatter away from the light.
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Yeah they were like rats. They didn't like the light because they're probably I imagine the drops probably dilate their eyes. But yeah no I mean after they catch the Riddler right they they were right before they catch him when they are in the apartment that he shot Falcone from because he sniped Carmine Falcone and they're looking through all the schizo stuff on his walls.
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And then there's just a note that I think it says something like like we're going to unmask them all or something like that. Yeah. And Batman stands there next to a bunch of cops or next to Gordon and a bunch of other cops and he's just staring at that one note and he's like maybe this is all coming to an end.
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And then Gordon's like what is and he says the Batman. I'm like he thinks that he's going to be unmasked. He thinks the Riddler knows who he is and that's why when he shows up to talk to the Riddler in the cell the Riddler is like I know you.
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I know who you are and he's like how do you know. You know he's like you couldn't possibly know who I am and then the Riddler doesn't know who he is. He does not know that he's Bruce Wayne at all.
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All right then I misinterpret that because I thought that I also thought. No no clue that Batman is Bruce Wayne. Not a single idea. Genuinely he does not realize that Batman is Bruce Wayne because the whole time he is trying to be comrades with Batman in
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you know showing the corruption of the Waynes showing you know this supposed conspiracy of the Waynes being evil and then he goes to try to kill Bruce Wayne that you like like he doesn't know that they're one in the same.
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He's using Batman as a pawn to enact this huge plan. So if he were to kill the guy that he supposedly knows is Batman that would foil his own plan.
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Yeah, I guess I wasn't.
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I mean there's no point at which he's like you're Bruce Wayne. The movie builds it up because it's showing you that Batman thinks that the Riddler knows Batman is assuming that the schizo guy on the internet with 500 YouTube followers in a fucking sweaty army surplus mask has figured out his whole deal.
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And I love when they do the little like then when they show the live stream because it's so perfect like with the greasy hair like dangling in front of his face like foggy goggles. Yeah, I'm really happy that you hear guys like I'm really really happy.
312
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You guys are just like that you were listening to me and we're all going to do a really good job. It's going to be great. I'm really glad you helped me to figure out the detonator devices and they're like well do I know what it is.
313
00:41:15,540 --> 00:41:20,540
Thanks for your thanks for your advice on the detonators guys. It's really good.
314
00:41:20,540 --> 00:41:26,540
So this is truly a film about male loneliness and the search for just friendship.
315
00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:30,540
And how the fuck did he afford an apartment that big in fucking New York?
316
00:41:30,540 --> 00:41:31,540
The Riddler?
317
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:33,540
Yeah, yeah, the Riddler.
318
00:41:33,540 --> 00:41:39,540
Didn't they say he worked at somewhere that was actually like decent work?
319
00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:45,540
I know that I think that there is an explanation where he had a job that was like pretty high paying and then he basically crazed out of it.
320
00:41:45,540 --> 00:41:53,540
Well, and you know what else was a giant waste of time was so you're telling me he carries two IDs in his wallet.
321
00:41:53,540 --> 00:42:00,540
One of them is his actual ID just so it takes him a little bit longer to figure out what is real.
322
00:42:00,540 --> 00:42:10,540
It's like they make like such a big deal about it like the cop pulls out. He's like which one of these is you and he's like you tell me and then like eight hours goes by and then I get it's actually this one.
323
00:42:10,540 --> 00:42:11,540
We don't know why he has that.
324
00:42:11,540 --> 00:42:13,540
That's actually pretty realistic though.
325
00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:19,540
It's like the time lapse to investigate it and then come back with an answer that's very anti climactic.
326
00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:22,540
That is true. So you mentioned detonators.
327
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:32,540
The film obviously climaxes the climax of the film is that they blow up the like much like most climaxes.
328
00:42:32,540 --> 00:42:36,540
Yes, they blow. Thank you, Cody. You're great. That's a good one.
329
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:42,540
They blow up the I forget what the word for it is, but basically like this, the sea wall of the city, the levees.
330
00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:46,540
They blow up the levees in Gotham. Thank you, Cody. You actually came in with the real word.
331
00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:56,540
They broke the levees of Gotham and flood the entire city and basically killed thousands of people and they don't end up killing the mayor or the soon to be mayor.
332
00:42:56,540 --> 00:42:58,540
I don't remember. She gets like the mayor elect.
333
00:42:58,540 --> 00:43:01,540
Yes, the mayor elect. They don't end up killing her.
334
00:43:01,540 --> 00:43:06,540
But other than that, thousands of people do die and Batman fails to stop it.
335
00:43:06,540 --> 00:43:11,540
So in that regard, Batman fails to investigate the whole film.
336
00:43:11,540 --> 00:43:15,540
He can't stop the one really pathetic villain that he's facing off against.
337
00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:21,540
The movie ends basically on a note of like, oh, well, I realized that I should be a hopeful figure, not a fearful figure.
338
00:43:21,540 --> 00:43:26,540
And he's like, I am making a difference. He was wrong. He's wrong.
339
00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:36,540
That was the one time that I was like, oh, OK, well, the message here is better because in the beginning when he saves that guy and the guy's like, oh, don't hurt me.
340
00:43:36,540 --> 00:43:40,540
And Batman doesn't take one moment to be like, hey, bro, I'm not going to hurt you.
341
00:43:40,540 --> 00:43:47,540
He literally just stares at him and then looks back up at the bat signal and is like, Gordon needs to talk to me and you to run off.
342
00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:49,540
Doesn't say one thing to console the guy.
343
00:43:49,540 --> 00:43:57,540
Not even not even a not even a ma'am, you have suffered an emotional trauma like not even a Robocop level answer.
344
00:43:57,540 --> 00:44:07,540
Absolutely nothing. So that's where like I was like, OK, if there's one good thing to take away from this this movie, at least it's that Batman realized at the end.
345
00:44:07,540 --> 00:44:19,540
Like, hey, I guess this whole thing that I'm doing is more about like helping people in this because it actually showed him at like helping recover people in like with the National Guard moving people and stuff like that.
346
00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:28,540
And I was like, OK, that's a that's a step forward from most superhero movies because most superhero movies are literally just like we're going to blow everything up and then we're going to go home.
347
00:44:28,540 --> 00:44:38,540
And so at least the message was like, oh, I realize now it's more about the people than it is like enacting vengeance on the criminals.
348
00:44:38,540 --> 00:44:47,540
Right. So that was the one moment in the movie that I was like, oh, OK, like at least it buttoned it all up and it identified that I wasn't incorrect.
349
00:44:47,540 --> 00:44:53,540
Like I thought the movie was blind to the fact that Batman was just staring down this guy that he just saved and was like, no, no.
350
00:44:53,540 --> 00:45:01,540
Austin, the movie is so intentional and so consistent about showing that Bruce Wayne is not doing this to serve anybody else.
351
00:45:01,540 --> 00:45:12,540
Like every character that mentions Bruce Wayne to Batman or every character that mentions Bruce Wayne at all speaks very negatively about him.
352
00:45:12,540 --> 00:45:17,540
Like the there's I think when the mayor elect comes up to is it the mayor like that comes up to talk to him?
353
00:45:17,540 --> 00:45:19,540
Is it some woman from the charity?
354
00:45:19,540 --> 00:45:23,540
The mayor elect comes up and is like, hey, why aren't you why aren't you donating any money?
355
00:45:23,540 --> 00:45:25,540
Like your parents were incredibly charitable.
356
00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:28,540
You haven't done shit. Right. You are not generous at all.
357
00:45:28,540 --> 00:45:31,540
You have billions of dollars and you don't do anything to help this city.
358
00:45:31,540 --> 00:45:35,540
Like what's going on? Can you help? Are you going to do something?
359
00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:39,540
And then he again just watches the dead mayor's son from across the room.
360
00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:41,540
Yes, yes. He does his weird little.
361
00:45:41,540 --> 00:45:48,540
But you know, and then and then there's also like when he meets Catwoman, when he's Batman and she's basically like, yeah, those fat cats like Bruce.
362
00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:52,540
Wayne sitting up in their towers doing absolutely goddamn nothing for this city.
363
00:45:52,540 --> 00:45:54,540
And then he just side eyes her.
364
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:57,540
He literally he literally looks like he's dying inside.
365
00:45:57,540 --> 00:45:59,540
He just he's just dying.
366
00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:03,540
I hate it when people talk shit about me to me and they don't know it.
367
00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:09,540
I think I think those two are perfect for each other because they have no chemistry whatsoever.
368
00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:16,540
Batman follows her to her apartment, witnesses her kissing her girlfriend or comforting her girlfriend.
369
00:46:16,540 --> 00:46:25,540
And then like stalks her after being a voyeur on another building, stalks her to another building and stops her.
370
00:46:25,540 --> 00:46:29,540
Also, when he's following her on the motorbike, he is not subtle at all.
371
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:31,540
He's like five feet behind her.
372
00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:33,540
Literally right behind her.
373
00:46:33,540 --> 00:46:37,540
There's no way she wouldn't notice that there was somebody like chasing her on a motorbike.
374
00:46:37,540 --> 00:46:39,540
You know, wait, hold on a second.
375
00:46:39,540 --> 00:46:43,540
I'm sorry to stop the flow here. My fucking is my audition not open?
376
00:46:43,540 --> 00:46:56,540
What is happening?
377
00:46:56,540 --> 00:46:59,540
Wow, I feel miserable out of nowhere.
378
00:46:59,540 --> 00:47:01,540
I don't know if it's that dark chocolate or not.
379
00:47:01,540 --> 00:47:05,540
It was probably dark chocolate, probably the technical difficulties can really drain you of your energy.
380
00:47:05,540 --> 00:47:10,540
But I'm going to need that energy right back, Austin, because now that we've overcome our technical difficulties
381
00:47:10,540 --> 00:47:18,540
and apologies for whatever lapse happens in the edit here, we've talked a bit about the Batman here, about bad detectives.
382
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:22,540
Batman is a bad detective and he fails at doing what he sets out to do.
383
00:47:22,540 --> 00:47:30,540
Ultimately, he learns a little bit about himself and grows by the end of the movie, but he sucks as a detective.
384
00:47:30,540 --> 00:47:32,540
He's bad at his job.
385
00:47:32,540 --> 00:47:38,540
Now I want to talk about a different guy who's bad at his job, and that's Max Payne in Max Payne 3.
386
00:47:38,540 --> 00:47:43,540
Do you want to give us a quick, just basic rundown of what the game is about?
387
00:47:43,540 --> 00:47:52,540
So Max Payne 3 is about Max being this is just after.
388
00:47:52,540 --> 00:48:03,540
Well, I say just it might be a couple of years after Max is forced to retire after he decided to much like like Lieutenant Gordon
389
00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:10,540
actually took a criminal side in something and ended up shooting a fellow detective.
390
00:48:10,540 --> 00:48:16,540
And the game very much brushes this underneath the rug of like making it OK.
391
00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:20,540
And I've never liked this twist. I always thought it was really cheap.
392
00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:25,540
In the end of Max Payne 2, I know we're not talking about Max Payne 2, but I just want to talk about this briefly.
393
00:48:25,540 --> 00:48:38,540
In the end of Max Payne 2, Max shoots Detective Winters, who is is basically shown the whole game to be like the golden boy of the NYPD.
394
00:48:38,540 --> 00:48:41,540
So like she's the top detective.
395
00:48:41,540 --> 00:48:45,540
She always has everything by the book. Perfect. Like does everything really well.
396
00:48:45,540 --> 00:48:49,540
She doesn't have any cold cases like it's just really good at her job.
397
00:48:49,540 --> 00:49:05,540
Max ends up shooting her at one point because she finds him not once, but twice with Mona Saks, who's like a fucking hitman for the mob, helping her both times.
398
00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:13,540
And this time she's like, hey, I'm not I'm not taking any shit I'm taking in Mona like I'm not I'm not just not having it anymore.
399
00:49:13,540 --> 00:49:16,540
And so Max is like, oh, fuck and shoots her.
400
00:49:16,540 --> 00:49:21,540
And so then like goes full balls to the wall again into like the deep conspiracy.
401
00:49:21,540 --> 00:49:40,540
And it turns out at the end of the game, you find a phone call between Detective Winters and Vlad, the main antagonist of the game, where she basically like again, like if you're going to have a secret relationship with a mob boss as a detective in the police department,
402
00:49:40,540 --> 00:49:46,540
don't leave a fucking voice message on his phone that anyone can get into.
403
00:49:46,540 --> 00:50:01,540
And so Max basically plays the phone and the voice message and she basically confesses like she's having a love affair with Vlad and that she was actually doing a whole bunch of stuff to cover up things.
404
00:50:01,540 --> 00:50:10,540
And this is all basically an excuse so that Max doesn't have to feel so bad about shooting a fellow detective.
405
00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:15,540
And I fucking hate that ostensibly in cold blood because he wouldn't have known that at the time.
406
00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:18,540
No, he had no idea at the time. Yeah, absolutely no idea.
407
00:50:18,540 --> 00:50:32,540
So then it like it does all that at the end of the game. And so basically the police department is like, this is such a fucking mess. Like sure you solved a small crime here.
408
00:50:32,540 --> 00:50:46,540
I guess not a small crime. You solved another conspiracy, but at the cost of like blowing up multiple city blocks and shooting another detective like how do you bring any of this to the press and not make it sound psychotic.
409
00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:52,540
And so the chief was basically like, hey, we're forcing you to retire, buddy. Like, get out of here.
410
00:50:52,540 --> 00:50:57,540
He completely torpedoed the stability and the integrity of the entire police department.
411
00:50:57,540 --> 00:51:07,540
Yes. Single handedly basically. Yep. I mean, yeah, I mean the criminals helped, but he didn't do them any justice. He didn't do the police department any justice.
412
00:51:07,540 --> 00:51:22,540
And so he gets forced into retirement. This is a couple of years afterward. And it's five years. I think the game says, okay. Yeah. So for five years, he's been doing nothing but like drinking in bars and feeling sorry for himself and in a specific bar in Jersey.
413
00:51:22,540 --> 00:51:40,540
Yeah. And he has seemingly become so notorious, even worldwide to the point where there's a criminal organization in Brazil and they go, you know, who'd be perfect to fuck everything up for us. That guy in New Jersey.
414
00:51:40,540 --> 00:51:55,540
So Max gets hired ostensibly for a personal security detail for this very rich family. It's in Brazil. Yeah, it's in Brazil. Yeah. Very rich. In Sao Paulo, Brazil. Very rich family in Sao Paulo.
415
00:51:55,540 --> 00:52:04,540
And he's supposed to protect the patriarch and his wife, basically, his rich or his younger wife, you know, who's very clearly like a sort of a gold digger.
416
00:52:04,540 --> 00:52:13,540
But I think it's implied or outright stated that she's having an affair with his younger brother. Yeah, it's kind of implied. They never outright stated. Yeah.
417
00:52:13,540 --> 00:52:31,540
But Max's job is basically just to get drunk all day and hang out around these rich people that he finds insufferable. Yeah. He gets approached in that bar, ends up getting, of course, in a massive shootout because some guys that look straight at the Jersey Shore reality show show up.
418
00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:40,540
And they start bullying him for being a shitty cop because they know who he is. They make fun of him and immediately make fun of his family, which he takes.
419
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:52,540
But then I think they end up hitting a woman. And that's what makes him just take a gun out and shoot the guy, which starts a whole basically like gang hunt for Max throughout New Jersey.
420
00:52:52,540 --> 00:53:04,540
So he decides to take the job that he's being offered. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, the guy did have a gun out when he hit the woman. So I probably also would have taken a gun out and shot the kid because of those circumstances.
421
00:53:04,540 --> 00:53:18,540
But no, my favorite, you skipped over the best line in the whole fucking game where all of a sudden they're like, they've got this altercation and the woman stands up and in the most Jersey fucking accent ever is like,
422
00:53:18,540 --> 00:53:28,540
I'm not frightened of you. You spray tan Guido douche, you asshole, you no dick asshole. And that's what causes him.
423
00:53:28,540 --> 00:53:36,540
That's what causes Tony to freak out and pistol with the girl and then Max takes out a gun and shoots her. But I just thought, I'm not frightened of you.
424
00:53:36,540 --> 00:53:52,540
Spray tan Guido douche. Yeah. So Max just has a drunken bar altercation with some douche and kills him. And then so he ends up taking the job and going to Brazil and he completely fails to protect the guy.
425
00:53:52,540 --> 00:54:03,540
The guy gets killed. There's two kidnap attempts like within a week of each other. And one of them he admits to being drunk during as well. Oh, he's drunk during both of them.
426
00:54:03,540 --> 00:54:12,540
Well, yes, but he's like super drunk during the first one. Yeah. And then he's like, oh, you drink it on the job. He's like, what? And then they're like, you better be.
427
00:54:12,540 --> 00:54:21,540
No, in the nightclub right after the girls get nabbed, Pasos picks him up in the helicopter. And as soon as he gets in, he's like, yeah, well, were you drinking?
428
00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:32,540
And he's like, you bet your ass I was. You try staying in there for five minutes sober. So like he literally goes into the nightclub, immediately starts to get fucked up and actually has a fantastic line that I love
429
00:54:32,540 --> 00:54:41,540
when Marcelo's like, how do you do it, man? You're a man of the world. How do you do it? And he's like, look at me. I'm in a nightclub. Hang around people.
430
00:54:41,540 --> 00:54:49,540
I can't stand listening to music. I can't stand. I'm five thousand miles away from home. I'm armed and I'm drinking. You don't want to take advice from me, amigo.
431
00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:55,540
And I'm like, honestly, probably the best self-aware fucking line that he's had the whole game.
432
00:54:55,540 --> 00:55:04,540
Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, he so basically like the the brother of the Patriot gets kidnapped along with the wife.
433
00:55:04,540 --> 00:55:10,540
Right. And then he has to go chase them down and rescue them, which he does successfully.
434
00:55:10,540 --> 00:55:20,540
But then they get kidnapped again at the nightclub. And this time he can't rescue. Who is it? Is it the wife or the wife's sister?
435
00:55:20,540 --> 00:55:27,540
One of the two or both of them still captive at the end of that mission? Giovanna and Fabiana, who are the two sisters.
436
00:55:27,540 --> 00:55:34,540
Fabiana is the wife to to Mr. Bronco, who's like the head guy, the patriarch. Max's boss. Yeah.
437
00:55:34,540 --> 00:55:39,540
So they're getting loaded onto a helicopter. And so they see this. So they kind of intercept it.
438
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,540
They're like shooting at him. And Fabiana gets loaded on the helicopter and flown away.
439
00:55:43,540 --> 00:55:50,540
Giovanna is still on the helicopter pad and they manage to kill all the perpetrators and then like basically save her.
440
00:55:50,540 --> 00:55:55,540
But Fabiana is gone. So she gets re-kidnapped successfully this time.
441
00:55:55,540 --> 00:56:04,540
And they go through multiple attempts to get her back, which ends disastrously because there's a moment I can sympathize with.
442
00:56:04,540 --> 00:56:09,540
I just because I felt this before. I just think that Max implemented it so poorly.
443
00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:21,540
Like there, I don't know if you remember when he goes back to the favela after he decides like he's going to go clean and shave his head and not drink, but he's still going to take pills because he needs super powers.
444
00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:25,540
Yeah, he's sober. He's sober. Quote, unquote. Yeah. Yes, I do remember.
445
00:56:25,540 --> 00:56:32,540
And his first thing is to follow a small child down an alleyway because he shows the kid a picture of Fabiana.
446
00:56:32,540 --> 00:56:42,540
It's like, have you seen this woman? And the kid's like, I got girls, nude girls. And he follows this kid down an alleyway, immediately gets mugged and has all of his shit taken.
447
00:56:42,540 --> 00:56:48,540
He's really good at being a detective, by the way. Like really, really good. Like almost Batman levels of good.
448
00:56:48,540 --> 00:56:54,540
If that tells you anything, Cody. No, okay. Colombo actually solves everything without everyone else telling him.
449
00:56:54,540 --> 00:57:01,540
Colombo is the inverse of both of these guys. He never kills anybody. He hates, well actually he hates guns, so he shares that with Batman.
450
00:57:01,540 --> 00:57:04,540
He never shoots anybody and he's an excellent detective.
451
00:57:04,540 --> 00:57:07,540
He's on top of that shit from basically moment one every single time.
452
00:57:07,540 --> 00:57:15,540
And all he does the entire episode every time is gather the proper evidence to prove what his initial theory is, which is pretty much always correct.
453
00:57:15,540 --> 00:57:20,540
Almost always correct. Do you think Colombo is a better detective than Sherlock Holmes?
454
00:57:20,540 --> 00:57:25,540
Well, I think Sherlock Holmes is fictional. Colombo was definitely a real guy.
455
00:57:25,540 --> 00:57:34,540
So yeah. But anyway, yeah, I do think that. And I also, so Batman's a bad detective in that he can't figure anything out.
456
00:57:34,540 --> 00:57:44,540
But like the consequences of him not solving a riddle are mostly just that like he has to get help or like, you know, kind of work his way there more slowly.
457
00:57:44,540 --> 00:57:53,540
He gets there eventually, even if he fails, like he gets from point A to point B. When Max is a bad detective, he doesn't wait for somebody's help.
458
00:57:53,540 --> 00:57:57,540
What he does is he just bumblefucks his way forward and just shoots everyone.
459
00:57:57,540 --> 00:58:01,540
Yeah. Until inevitably somebody gives him information.
460
00:58:01,540 --> 00:58:05,540
Usually accidentally. Usually it's just incidental that he has shot.
461
00:58:05,540 --> 00:58:12,540
He shot somebody and they drop something in the room or they say something as they're dying that makes him think, oh shit.
462
00:58:12,540 --> 00:58:17,540
And halfway through the game, Max realizes that he hasn't wasn't actually hired to be a bodyguard.
463
00:58:17,540 --> 00:58:26,540
He was hired by the brother of the patriarch to be a patsy so that when everything went to shit or for the exact reason that you just stated.
464
00:58:26,540 --> 00:58:30,540
So they assume that he's just going to go in and start shooting stuff.
465
00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:37,540
And they thought that at some point he was going to like die in a drunken stupor in a gunfight,
466
00:58:37,540 --> 00:58:45,540
which probably would have been pretty accurate had he not, in his own words, survived by dumb luck in the explosion at the Bronco headquarters,
467
00:58:45,540 --> 00:58:54,540
which also even backfires for him because there's a little Easter egg in the game that because you can watch TV and it's kind of been a staple of the Max Payne games.
468
00:58:54,540 --> 00:58:59,540
You can turn TVs on and they'll play like remedy really likes to do that.
469
00:58:59,540 --> 00:59:04,540
Yeah. So in the middle of a giant favela raid in the second half of the game,
470
00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:09,540
if you decide to turn on a television and take a moment of respite so you can watch the news,
471
00:59:09,540 --> 00:59:16,540
they actually have a moment where they show Max coming out of the wreckage of the Bronco headquarters and they're like, this is the guy.
472
00:59:16,540 --> 00:59:36,540
This is the guy that killed that killed. This is the
473
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:40,540
guy that was backfired and Max is deviating from the path that they set for him.
474
00:59:40,540 --> 00:59:50,540
It still just is like a whole bumblefuck mess of like, oh, now they think that he's the criminal and he's still going according to plan because he finds more ways to fuck himself.
475
00:59:50,540 --> 01:00:04,540
Well, here's the thing. He at no point does he actually like he truly does just luck into things working out at the end because he doesn't have a plan to take down the he uncovers a massive conspiracy basically involving organ harvesting and all of this stuff.
476
01:00:04,540 --> 01:00:11,540
And at no point does he actually get to like a point where he can do anything other than shoot people.
477
01:00:11,540 --> 01:00:23,540
And at a certain point, he enlists the help of a clean detective on the police force who helps him infiltrate the police station and then kill literally dozens, if not hundreds of police officers.
478
01:00:23,540 --> 01:00:30,540
I mean, it's to the point where Max is possibly the greatest American terrorist to have ever existed.
479
01:00:30,540 --> 01:00:35,540
The amount of people that he kills in the military and the police force in Brazil is unprecedented.
480
01:00:35,540 --> 01:00:46,540
It makes for a good parallel of so you got like the the UFE, which is the police department's special gang task force, right?
481
01:00:46,540 --> 01:00:59,540
And they show in the game that all the ones that you get involved with are basically helping in aiding to scoop up people in these arrests and give them to the crasso preto, which are the paramilitary group to sell to the organ harvesting.
482
01:00:59,540 --> 01:01:16,540
People, but it never stops to ask the question of like, OK, in this like regiment size police task force, how many of these guys joined because they lived in the favela and they saw how rampant like the gang influence was.
483
01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:21,540
And they were like Batman in regards of like, oh, I just want to make a difference in my home communities.
484
01:01:21,540 --> 01:01:31,540
And this is the best way to do it. The game paints it as if every single one of those guys is completely in on the scheme of making money from this from this whole thing.
485
01:01:31,540 --> 01:01:47,540
So when you go to the UFE headquarters and you shoot everybody in it, I've often thought about like, oh, well, what if there's just this one dude that literally like sure against his better judgment, maybe isn't doing the right thing, but he believes that he's in the fight for the right reason.
486
01:01:47,540 --> 01:01:58,540
And you get this one dude that turned himself in escape custody, shot up the entire precinct and then kills his boss in a boss fight battle.
487
01:01:58,540 --> 01:02:12,540
And yeah, it's just like there are some things that happy ending to the game when you stop to think about it, you're like, OK, well, yeah, the yeah, the ending of the game is you basically shoot up the precinct and then you go to the airport.
488
01:02:12,540 --> 01:02:21,540
But this is the stop that I'm trying to find. Yeah. With a with a milk or Mark 36 in say rotary grenade launcher.
489
01:02:21,540 --> 01:02:34,540
So yeah. So Max, he just fails upward. Basically, he fails forward into breaking down a conspiracy, but not really addressing it in any way, shape or form other than killing all the people that he encounters.
490
01:02:34,540 --> 01:02:45,540
And throughout this whole thing, he's drunken on pills or the halfway through the third game, he does stop drinking or like two thirds of the way through because he just fucked up too many points at that point because he was drunk.
491
01:02:45,540 --> 01:02:53,540
So that's the background on these two characters in this respective pieces of media. I think we should actually get to the point of this, which is who would win the fight?
492
01:02:53,540 --> 01:03:06,540
Well, can I say can I say this quote real quick just to kind of hammer home? So it's a little bit long, but this is like right after right before the very end of the game when you're going to kill Becker, who's the leader of the UFA at the airport.
493
01:03:06,540 --> 01:03:15,540
And Max realizes after he shot his way through an airport terminal that he probably could have just driven to the hangar with De Silva.
494
01:03:15,540 --> 01:03:24,540
And he says, after stepping off of a tram, he goes, it had taken me right to the heart of it. Becker's gimp's were everywhere. So he and Bronco must be close.
495
01:03:24,540 --> 01:03:34,540
Smart move would have been sticking with De Silva and going straight to the hangar. But when was I ever about smart moves? I'm a dumb move guy. Hey, Max, we'll drive into the runway. No, thanks.
496
01:03:34,540 --> 01:03:41,540
I'll walk into the entrance. I'll put a big shit eating grin on my face and let these assholes take turns trying to kill me. That's my style.
497
01:03:41,540 --> 01:03:48,540
And it's too late in the day to hope for change. It's important to point out that he is sort of a machine for great one liners.
498
01:03:48,540 --> 01:03:55,540
I had a hole in my second favorite drinking arm. That kind of thing. That is a good line. Yeah, that is a good line.
499
01:03:55,540 --> 01:04:04,540
Cody, I understand you're not familiar with Max Payne, but with the image that we've given you here, maybe you can be an active participant in our discussion.
500
01:04:04,540 --> 01:04:10,540
But who would win in a fight between Robert Pattinson's The Batman or Max Payne from Max Payne 3?
501
01:04:10,540 --> 01:04:19,540
Max Payne just sounds like a vengeful fucking moron who just pain trips his way through life, unfortunately, to everyone that may or may not encounter him.
502
01:04:19,540 --> 01:04:25,540
Batman is just a sad, depressed incel that likes to beat people up.
503
01:04:25,540 --> 01:04:32,540
That's true. I think it is canon also that the Batman hasn't had sex. Yeah, it seems pretty clear when he interacts with Catwoman in the movie.
504
01:04:32,540 --> 01:04:37,540
I guess that's true. Yeah, it looks like these guys have an eye contact problem.
505
01:04:37,540 --> 01:04:42,540
The only pussy he gets is Catwoman. But he doesn't though.
506
01:04:42,540 --> 01:04:47,540
But like he leaves at the end of the movie. That's it. Like they just interact. That's it.
507
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:52,540
I love when he looks right at one of her 17 cats and goes, you got a lot of cats.
508
01:04:52,540 --> 01:04:58,540
Yeah, he. OK, first of all, that bitch is weird. She drinks milk, just drinks milk. That's weird. Yeah, I do that.
509
01:04:58,540 --> 01:05:03,540
OK, well, I clearly spoke into the wrong crowd here.
510
01:05:03,540 --> 01:05:07,540
She just had a traumatic incident where somebody broke into her apartment and kidnapped her girlfriend.
511
01:05:07,540 --> 01:05:12,540
And her first thought is to bust out a big tall glass of presumably whole milk.
512
01:05:12,540 --> 01:05:16,540
So that, hey, I drink whole milk, but that wasn't my issue that I had with it.
513
01:05:16,540 --> 01:05:21,540
My issue was is that she left the fucking fridge open the whole time. Yeah, that is pretty fucked.
514
01:05:21,540 --> 01:05:25,540
I don't think I'm thinking about how gross that milk has got to be. If that's a regular habit of hers.
515
01:05:25,540 --> 01:05:30,540
Room temperature milk. What is she European? Come on. But fucking curdled.
516
01:05:30,540 --> 01:05:34,540
But but yeah, no, I think I think Batman is an incel.
517
01:05:34,540 --> 01:05:41,540
Batman gets shot a lot in this movie. He does. Multiple times at the end, like point blank styles.
518
01:05:41,540 --> 01:05:45,540
Yeah. Body armor. Yeah, but even then it shows that with.
519
01:05:45,540 --> 01:05:52,540
And then he does steroids, drugs to win. So he also does drugs.
520
01:05:52,540 --> 01:06:05,540
So I got it. I just I would just love to think that because Batman doesn't use guns, but uses that grappling hook thing where he just shoots it through that guy's leg like 15 fucking times.
521
01:06:05,540 --> 01:06:09,540
That is insane. That is way more gruesome than using a gun.
522
01:06:09,540 --> 01:06:13,540
And he does it to that one dude that's like falling down.
523
01:06:13,540 --> 01:06:20,540
The fucking leg. So like that dude's hitting like terminal velocity immediately.
524
01:06:20,540 --> 01:06:28,540
I know that that that Batman didn't technically pull the trigger on this gun, but he does shoot somebody and kill them in this film.
525
01:06:28,540 --> 01:06:33,540
So like he is wrestling with a guy. I think the guy has like a Remington 700 or something.
526
01:06:33,540 --> 01:06:44,540
I could be wrong. And he basically redirects the guy's muzzle to one of the other guys and allows him to pull the trigger.
527
01:06:44,540 --> 01:06:47,540
That's when they're in a stadium right up on the rafters. Yeah.
528
01:06:47,540 --> 01:06:57,540
And it kills the guy. And not that I'm particularly upset about the fact that he does that because I mean like good on you if you can utilize somebody else's weapon go ahead.
529
01:06:57,540 --> 01:07:08,540
But the deal that I have with it is is Batman's always had that like the moral high ground or you can't see it, but I'm doing quote unquote of like I don't use guns.
530
01:07:08,540 --> 01:07:14,540
But you're going to utilize somebody else's gun to overpower him and just shooting somebody.
531
01:07:14,540 --> 01:07:21,540
And then you're going to take the you're going to like absolve yourself of that and be like, no, I didn't do it.
532
01:07:21,540 --> 01:07:29,540
I didn't do it. Now. Yeah. He doesn't even say that he would literally say like, oh, well, the other guy shot him.
533
01:07:29,540 --> 01:07:35,540
It wasn't me. I didn't use the gun. I just curved the bullet. Look at me.
534
01:07:35,540 --> 01:07:42,540
I don't know the movie grapples with that. Does the movie does take a moment to like pay attention to the fact that so presumably that guy lived.
535
01:07:42,540 --> 01:07:49,540
I just assume that guy lived and I think there's like a close up of him falling over the edge with the grappling hook that Cody was talking about.
536
01:07:49,540 --> 01:07:53,540
And he slumped over and dead like the.
537
01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:55,540
He might be alive.
538
01:07:55,540 --> 01:07:57,540
Might be alive.
539
01:07:57,540 --> 01:08:04,540
What if it was just bean bag. They are just now airing the Penguin miniseries, which I've been watching and it's amazing.
540
01:08:04,540 --> 01:08:08,540
You guys should watch it. I've heard that it's phenomenal. So there's potential for that guy to show up.
541
01:08:08,540 --> 01:08:14,540
Can you imagine how specific that reference would have to be like a guy shows up? He's just got a massive tear in his leg.
542
01:08:14,540 --> 01:08:20,540
He's like, I got no nerves in my muscle and he's just got a gunshot wound in like his shoulder.
543
01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:23,540
I think that's been a rough week.
544
01:08:23,540 --> 01:08:26,540
You think Batman would win? Why is that Cody? Come on.
545
01:08:26,540 --> 01:08:30,540
Give an explanation of your reasoning. That's all I'm asking for.
546
01:08:30,540 --> 01:08:44,540
With the abilities that have been shown, the fact that Batman took a bridge to the face at again, terminal velocity and just rolled it off 55 feet down the street.
547
01:08:44,540 --> 01:08:52,540
I'm pretty sure with the body armor he'd have, he'd make it up close and personal and then he could just, you know.
548
01:08:52,540 --> 01:09:00,540
You say that, but he also got knocked off his ass with the fucking like a shot from a shotgun.
549
01:09:00,540 --> 01:09:05,540
And so like if we're talking about any fucking Roy's ranges.
550
01:09:05,540 --> 01:09:11,540
Yeah. OK. It takes him like a good traumatic PTSD moment to inject that.
551
01:09:11,540 --> 01:09:13,540
And if Max has anything, it's reflexes.
552
01:09:13,540 --> 01:09:22,540
So I think if Max was attentive enough to shoot him with like a shotgun that he would have the ability to walk over there and then shoot him in the face.
553
01:09:22,540 --> 01:09:28,540
Like the guy was going to shoot him in the face and then someone came up and shot him.
554
01:09:28,540 --> 01:09:39,540
And like there was a whole several times where Batman was staring longingly at somebody that was about to kill him and didn't utilize any sense of urgency to actually change the fact.
555
01:09:39,540 --> 01:09:43,540
Somebody else had to come and like stop that from happening.
556
01:09:43,540 --> 01:09:56,540
Yeah. And I think Max especially has insane reflexes all while being on very heavy painkillers, like heavy opiate doses where he's constantly just basically eating pills like they're tic tacs.
557
01:09:56,540 --> 01:09:57,540
Yep.
558
01:09:57,540 --> 01:10:00,540
And that dulls your senses pretty bad from what I hear.
559
01:10:00,540 --> 01:10:10,540
And so I can only imagine what his senses would be like if he were not on drugs, although who knows maybe those pills are what gave him the excellent focus that he has.
560
01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:16,540
But yeah, I mean, I am kind of hard pressed to believe that Max wouldn't have like insanely quick reflexes.
561
01:10:16,540 --> 01:10:25,540
But also I do think that Batman is basically in head to toe body armor with like a very small area to shoot if you were going to shoot him.
562
01:10:25,540 --> 01:10:32,540
I could literally you want me to start up Max Payne three. I'll show you that I can I can shoot the guys in the exact spots.
563
01:10:32,540 --> 01:10:35,540
Okay. I am in is unarmored.
564
01:10:35,540 --> 01:10:37,540
Hold up, Austin.
565
01:10:37,540 --> 01:10:40,540
I think this should be something that we should do.
566
01:10:40,540 --> 01:10:46,540
I think what we should do for one of the first game exchange activities won't be an exchange.
567
01:10:46,540 --> 01:10:51,540
What it will be is a challenge and it's the Batman challenge.
568
01:10:51,540 --> 01:10:53,540
Do you think you'd be able to do it?
569
01:10:53,540 --> 01:11:00,540
Yeah. Can you go through the entire game only shooting guys on the lower half of their face or in the eyeball?
570
01:11:00,540 --> 01:11:02,540
Yeah. You think you could do that?
571
01:11:02,540 --> 01:11:03,540
You don't shoot him anywhere else.
572
01:11:03,540 --> 01:11:11,540
If you shoot him anywhere else, you have to restart the level except for the final boss that you have to shoot in the grenade and not in his.
573
01:11:11,540 --> 01:11:15,540
Although actually you can execute him at the end of the game.
574
01:11:15,540 --> 01:11:20,540
So as long as you although I think it hijacks your cursor, so you might have to shoot him like square in the middle of the face.
575
01:11:20,540 --> 01:11:22,540
So you can execute him at the end of the game.
576
01:11:22,540 --> 01:11:30,540
Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that when he's walking around him and he brings his his pistol up, you can actually excuse me.
577
01:11:30,540 --> 01:11:33,540
You can bring up the trigger or you can pull the trigger and kill him.
578
01:11:33,540 --> 01:11:36,540
I just assumed it would stop you. So I didn't even bother trying.
579
01:11:36,540 --> 01:11:39,540
Well, I am really sorry. I have to go to the bathroom real quick.
580
01:11:39,540 --> 01:12:02,540
No, that's OK. Go run.
581
01:12:02,540 --> 01:12:03,540
How's your time?
582
01:12:03,540 --> 01:12:04,540
How you doing, Austin?
583
01:12:04,540 --> 01:12:09,540
Do I feel so much fucking better? I just absolutely puked my guts up.
584
01:12:09,540 --> 01:12:13,540
Whatever, whatever was wrong is totally gone.
585
01:12:13,540 --> 01:12:15,540
What did you eat today?
586
01:12:15,540 --> 01:12:23,540
I had some cheeseburgers that were left over from a little get together that we had with my dad.
587
01:12:23,540 --> 01:12:24,540
I got together.
588
01:12:24,540 --> 01:12:25,540
Choice.
589
01:12:25,540 --> 01:12:29,540
I was like, did it was sad or the football game?
590
01:12:29,540 --> 01:12:30,540
So was it Sunday? It was on Sunday.
591
01:12:30,540 --> 01:12:31,540
Oh, you're fine.
592
01:12:31,540 --> 01:12:32,540
One day old.
593
01:12:32,540 --> 01:12:33,540
Yeah.
594
01:12:33,540 --> 01:12:41,540
I had two Hershey's bars today at Dad's.
595
01:12:41,540 --> 01:12:47,540
And then when I got back here, you guys saw me eat those little tea wafers and the other chocolate.
596
01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:52,540
So when I I ate too much chocolate, I don't know what I don't know.
597
01:12:52,540 --> 01:12:55,540
I don't know what it was, but it was fucking brown when it came up.
598
01:12:55,540 --> 01:13:00,540
So it's like I don't know if it was like it's been a long time since I've had a Hershey bar.
599
01:13:00,540 --> 01:13:04,540
So maybe like the very artificial sweeteners like we're fucking with me or something.
600
01:13:04,540 --> 01:13:05,540
I don't know. Yeah, I could imagine.
601
01:13:05,540 --> 01:13:07,540
Yeah. Wow.
602
01:13:07,540 --> 01:13:08,540
I'm glad you're okay.
603
01:13:08,540 --> 01:13:10,540
Yeah. I still have a little bit of a headache, but wow.
604
01:13:10,540 --> 01:13:14,540
Does my stomach feel way fucking better?
605
01:13:14,540 --> 01:13:16,540
And I just checked the waveform.
606
01:13:16,540 --> 01:13:18,540
I don't think you can hear me throwing up.
607
01:13:18,540 --> 01:13:20,540
It was very loud.
608
01:13:20,540 --> 01:13:22,540
Yeah. Cody heard what sounded like a yelp.
609
01:13:22,540 --> 01:13:26,540
Oh yeah. It was probably just me throwing up.
610
01:13:26,540 --> 01:13:27,540
He was like, I heard him scream.
611
01:13:27,540 --> 01:13:28,540
Do you think he's okay?
612
01:13:28,540 --> 01:13:32,540
I said he probably just fell in.
613
01:13:32,540 --> 01:13:40,540
So I think I think now that you're feeling better, we just took a little break so that Austin could cure himself of dysentery.
614
01:13:40,540 --> 01:13:47,540
And now that you feel like you're popping pills like Max Payne, we can just spend myself around in the survival viewer and Mel, you're solid three.
615
01:13:47,540 --> 01:13:56,540
If you need if you need to get snake, if you get food poisoning and you don't have any like medicine to help you do that,
616
01:13:56,540 --> 01:14:00,540
then you go to the survival viewer and it brings up like a little 3D animation of snake.
617
01:14:00,540 --> 01:14:08,540
And if you spin him around a whole bunch really fast, when you come out of the survival viewer, he'll throw up.
618
01:14:08,540 --> 01:14:11,540
So I just needed to get that food poisoning out of me, you know?
619
01:14:11,540 --> 01:14:12,540
Yeah, for sure.
620
01:14:12,540 --> 01:14:16,540
I got I got too drunk a couple of months ago on a Sunday night.
621
01:14:16,540 --> 01:14:18,540
I know. Bad call.
622
01:14:18,540 --> 01:14:24,540
I got so drunk that I needed to I needed to force myself to throw up to like be sober.
623
01:14:24,540 --> 01:14:29,540
By the time I woke up the next morning, it was also only like maybe 10 o'clock at night.
624
01:14:29,540 --> 01:14:35,540
I was like, yeah, I need to I need to fucking just empty my stomach and start over.
625
01:14:35,540 --> 01:14:37,540
I was like, this sucks.
626
01:14:37,540 --> 01:14:39,540
And I yeah, no, I'm with you.
627
01:14:39,540 --> 01:14:43,540
Forcing yourself to throw up is oh, I didn't even force myself.
628
01:14:43,540 --> 01:14:44,540
Oh, you just did it.
629
01:14:44,540 --> 01:14:47,540
No. So that's why I left so abruptly.
630
01:14:47,540 --> 01:14:50,540
Like right when I finished my thought and I was like, I have to go to the bathroom now.
631
01:14:50,540 --> 01:14:55,540
It's because I could feel it like working its way up. So I was like, all right, I need to go.
632
01:14:55,540 --> 01:14:56,540
I'll be right back.
633
01:14:56,540 --> 01:15:01,540
He was so disgusted by your take on Max Payne versus Batman that he had to go.
634
01:15:01,540 --> 01:15:04,540
I mean, I'm sick.
635
01:15:04,540 --> 01:15:05,540
Well, you know what?
636
01:15:05,540 --> 01:15:10,540
That could have been a gold moment if he had stayed to to vomit all over your computer and your camera.
637
01:15:10,540 --> 01:15:15,540
I thought about it, but I didn't have I didn't have like I if I had a bowl,
638
01:15:15,540 --> 01:15:17,540
I would have thrown up right in front of you guys.
639
01:15:17,540 --> 01:15:21,540
Probably.
640
01:15:21,540 --> 01:15:24,540
What was the last time you threw up before that?
641
01:15:24,540 --> 01:15:34,540
The last time I did was like right after I got out of the army and I was talking to Raleigh on the phone.
642
01:15:34,540 --> 01:15:37,540
I was talking to Raleigh and we were catching up.
643
01:15:37,540 --> 01:15:43,540
And that's when I was like, oh, I ran out of a mixer to use with my my vodka, but I don't want to stop drinking.
644
01:15:43,540 --> 01:15:51,540
So I'm just going to drink the vodka straight and then got way too fucked up because it's like I was having a good time.
645
01:15:51,540 --> 01:15:53,540
He was drinking some. And so it was like, oh, fuck it.
646
01:15:53,540 --> 01:15:56,540
I'll just keep it going. And then I just kept like sipping it.
647
01:15:56,540 --> 01:16:04,540
And then just absolutely like I told you, there's like a moment I came back to and I was lying in the fucking in the hallway
648
01:16:04,540 --> 01:16:09,540
where the bathroom is and the to the to the the basement.
649
01:16:09,540 --> 01:16:13,540
And that's when I realized like, oh, God, when did I hang up the phone with Raleigh?
650
01:16:13,540 --> 01:16:16,540
How long have I been like how long have I been slumped down here?
651
01:16:16,540 --> 01:16:19,540
And as soon as I woke up, I was like, I have to throw up.
652
01:16:19,540 --> 01:16:21,540
I didn't even get a chance to stand up.
653
01:16:21,540 --> 01:16:25,540
I literally turned my head to the side and threw up in the fucking hallway.
654
01:16:25,540 --> 01:16:27,540
And I was like, oh, no, I'm an adult.
655
01:16:27,540 --> 01:16:32,540
Oh, no, buddy. I think that's a good thought to have.
656
01:16:32,540 --> 01:16:40,540
Liam, what last time I threw up? So I don't remember the last time I actually threw up.
657
01:16:40,540 --> 01:16:46,540
I tried to the night of one of the weddings that I went to a couple of months ago.
658
01:16:46,540 --> 01:16:50,540
I tried to throw up because I had a lot to drink throughout the day.
659
01:16:50,540 --> 01:16:54,540
But it was I was fine the whole time.
660
01:16:54,540 --> 01:17:01,540
But it was the like the end of the night, like maybe 20 minutes before or like 30 minutes before I actually ended up going up
661
01:17:01,540 --> 01:17:04,540
to go to bed because it was like one in the morning or something.
662
01:17:04,540 --> 01:17:07,540
I the groom cracked a modello.
663
01:17:07,540 --> 01:17:14,540
So I had been drinking hard alcohol the whole night because I prefer booze and mixed drinks to beer.
664
01:17:14,540 --> 01:17:19,540
It's just less calories, honestly, and it's tastier in my opinion.
665
01:17:19,540 --> 01:17:22,540
But I had been drinking hard alcohol the whole night.
666
01:17:22,540 --> 01:17:24,540
This was the first beer I had of the night.
667
01:17:24,540 --> 01:17:30,540
I drank half the modello and then my stomach just was like, oh, nope, not agreeing with this.
668
01:17:30,540 --> 01:17:32,540
Nope, nope.
669
01:17:32,540 --> 01:17:38,540
So when I was trying to go to bed, I was just like unsettled and I tried to make myself throw up, but I couldn't.
670
01:17:38,540 --> 01:17:43,540
I do like my I don't like Modelo's.
671
01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:50,540
But when you spent your whole day not drinking beer and then you decide to end it with a little nightcap of a beer, it's just not the right move.
672
01:17:50,540 --> 01:17:52,540
No, I know.
673
01:17:52,540 --> 01:17:56,540
I threw up all you guys are here a couple of months ago.
674
01:17:56,540 --> 01:18:00,540
You really do that. I don't know. Oh, wait.
675
01:18:00,540 --> 01:18:07,540
I wasn't there for I just I know that Cody every once in a while will like escape and make your tummy feel better.
676
01:18:07,540 --> 01:18:13,540
It's happened like twice. This one was you guys had abandoned me outside by the fire.
677
01:18:13,540 --> 01:18:16,540
What? I remember that half an hour.
678
01:18:16,540 --> 01:18:18,540
First of all, we didn't abandon you. We didn't abandon you at all.
679
01:18:18,540 --> 01:18:21,540
You told us to leave you out there. I want to be very clear about that.
680
01:18:21,540 --> 01:18:25,540
You told us to leave you out there. You guys were coming back at some point out there.
681
01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:30,540
You said to us, you guys are getting up to go get drinks inside.
682
01:18:30,540 --> 01:18:34,540
Leave me out here. I want to stay out here.
683
01:18:34,540 --> 01:18:40,540
I sat there for probably half an hour and I was like, oh, no.
684
01:18:40,540 --> 01:18:51,540
I left the area. I went over to where I have the hammock stand and I was like, all right, this is this thing better fucking hold me up while I puked my brains out.
685
01:18:51,540 --> 01:18:55,540
I was like, oh, OK, I feel better.
686
01:18:55,540 --> 01:19:02,540
And I sat by the fire and I could stay out there all night until one of you fucks came out and got me.
687
01:19:02,540 --> 01:19:05,540
I don't remember who was there.
688
01:19:05,540 --> 01:19:12,540
Actually, every time I every time I throw up, it reminds me of Max Payne, because there's a great one liner after that.
689
01:19:12,540 --> 01:19:21,540
Where like there's a little montage of him drinking in his apartment and he throws up and then there's like no narration at all in the scene before this.
690
01:19:21,540 --> 01:19:23,540
It's just watching him get drunk and do a bunch of shit.
691
01:19:23,540 --> 01:19:30,540
And then he chimes in right after throwing up in his fucking sink in the kitchen and he goes, and with that, I guess I was ready for bed.
692
01:19:30,540 --> 01:19:38,540
And he goes and runs into his room and then just falls on the fucking bed and then wakes up the next morning.
693
01:19:38,540 --> 01:19:41,540
And I'm like, God damn it. So every time I throw up, I think about that.
694
01:19:41,540 --> 01:19:46,540
Do you say that to yourself? Yeah, like in my own, in my own narration.
695
01:19:46,540 --> 01:19:55,540
Yeah, I did also think very organically of just like when as soon as we're done recording, I'm just going to bed because I'm tired.
696
01:19:55,540 --> 01:20:03,540
Well, that's a great segue for us to wrap this up so that you can go be ready for bed and do your own narration.
697
01:20:03,540 --> 01:20:06,540
We can get to the meat of this, which is who would win the fight?
698
01:20:06,540 --> 01:20:10,540
Now, Cody, I think. Can you explain your reasoning?
699
01:20:10,540 --> 01:20:14,540
So I think I can just say something real quick.
700
01:20:14,540 --> 01:20:19,540
I fucking hate Batman, but you're still voting for Batman to win the fight.
701
01:20:19,540 --> 01:20:25,540
Yeah, you're still voting for what is possibly one of the most incompetent portrayals of Batman to win the fight.
702
01:20:25,540 --> 01:20:30,540
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think he's the most likable Batman.
703
01:20:30,540 --> 01:20:37,540
I think nothing's in the way.
704
01:20:37,540 --> 01:20:45,540
Isn't something in the way, though? Yeah, but my I know that's the lyric, but I'm just saying it.
705
01:20:45,540 --> 01:20:49,540
I think that's that's I've been quiet 90 percent of this fucking episode.
706
01:20:49,540 --> 01:20:56,540
I need to see. I think that was the part of the reason why it's called a choice, Cody.
707
01:20:56,540 --> 01:20:59,540
That's called a choice on your part. Fuck you.
708
01:20:59,540 --> 01:21:02,540
You heard of questions. You ever asked questions?
709
01:21:02,540 --> 01:21:09,540
You ever ask questions in class when you were in school? Sometimes you just got to ask questions to open open the conversation up to yourself, Cody.
710
01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:12,540
You guys just do it. Seize the day.
711
01:21:12,540 --> 01:21:24,540
And then if you remember one of the things that you asked earlier, then people are like, oh, holy shit, he is listening when it's like desperately me just trying to involve myself some way, shape or form.
712
01:21:24,540 --> 01:21:27,540
Damn right. Austin gets it. Austin gets it.
713
01:21:27,540 --> 01:21:32,540
Wow. He's a great listener. So OK, so something is in the way.
714
01:21:32,540 --> 01:21:34,540
You're right, Cody. Something is in the way.
715
01:21:34,540 --> 01:21:39,540
And that's Austin's take on why Max Payne would win against Batman.
716
01:21:39,540 --> 01:21:42,540
So I will give Batman this.
717
01:21:42,540 --> 01:21:53,540
If they were like in the stereotypical face to face in a warehouse and on the count of ready, set, go, we're going to fight each other.
718
01:21:53,540 --> 01:22:01,540
I think it would be very difficult for Max. That being said, the man shoots RPG sevens out of the air.
719
01:22:01,540 --> 01:22:13,540
I I have difficulty believing that Batman would be able to maneuver his way out of Max's bullets.
720
01:22:13,540 --> 01:22:18,540
Like, I know he's bulletproof and all this, but he can still be stumbled.
721
01:22:18,540 --> 01:22:25,540
He like if if Batman gets in close and is beating him up, then, yeah, it's pretty much over.
722
01:22:25,540 --> 01:22:30,540
Like in every game, if enemies get right up in your shit, it's pretty much over.
723
01:22:30,540 --> 01:22:33,540
That's the whole name of the game is to shoot them before they get to you. Right.
724
01:22:33,540 --> 01:22:47,540
There are circumstances where I do think Batman would win, but I just think it is so easy for Max, like you said, drunk and high on pills to just throw a couple of rounds in that direction and just kill him haphazardly.
725
01:22:47,540 --> 01:22:52,540
I don't think Batman stands much of a chance there.
726
01:22:52,540 --> 01:22:59,540
And in this iteration of Batman, he doesn't really have the utility belt that the Adam West version of Batman has.
727
01:22:59,540 --> 01:23:02,540
He's got no anti shark spray. That's right. Yeah.
728
01:23:02,540 --> 01:23:07,540
No anti shark spray like or for or for Max to totally defeat Max.
729
01:23:07,540 --> 01:23:10,540
He would need like an instant sobriety spray.
730
01:23:10,540 --> 01:23:18,540
You know, here's your family back spray. Well, he's got it on himself. Yeah, right.
731
01:23:18,540 --> 01:23:27,540
Like, oh, but yeah, I just between and it just comes down to my bias of I just like Max better.
732
01:23:27,540 --> 01:23:35,540
Like, I think he's a much more endearing fuck up than Batman is in my brain.
733
01:23:35,540 --> 01:23:41,540
He's way he's way more entertaining. Yeah. Batman Batman in this movie is like an adult baby, basically.
734
01:23:41,540 --> 01:23:44,540
I mean, he's feuding with his butler telling him that he's not his dad.
735
01:23:44,540 --> 01:24:04,540
He doesn't his best friend in the GCP is a guy who is so bad at his job that he fucking he connects an unverified USB thumb drive to the GCP server, which then hacks into his email and sends out sensitive fucking photos to every major news organization.
736
01:24:04,540 --> 01:24:11,540
Well, and what what angers me about that is that in the army, you have to do cyber awareness, which I think we've talked about on another episode.
737
01:24:11,540 --> 01:24:16,540
That is the first thing I thought about was like you pick up. That's literally a scenario.
738
01:24:16,540 --> 01:24:20,540
It's a scenario that every time I've heard it, like they say the same thing at my work.
739
01:24:20,540 --> 01:24:23,540
If you find some foreign thing, do not put it in your computer.
740
01:24:23,540 --> 01:24:26,540
Do not plug it into anything that's connected to a server.
741
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:39,540
I had to do that for my previous job because like a handful of years ago, there was a like a breach in the company and I had to do a fucking three hour online course.
742
01:24:39,540 --> 01:24:42,540
And I was like, yeah, what a waste of my fucking time.
743
01:24:42,540 --> 01:24:48,540
I just can't just go home and just hang out with Adam, the fucking internet dude.
744
01:24:48,540 --> 01:24:54,540
And just come on. Yeah, that's the that's the cybersecurity class that you should be taking.
745
01:24:54,540 --> 01:24:57,540
Yeah, you probably had to Adam.
746
01:24:57,540 --> 01:25:04,540
You probably had to do that, Cody, because years prior, some guy found a thumb drive on the ground and went to thumb drive.
747
01:25:04,540 --> 01:25:12,540
It's so funny because thumb drive is sick.
748
01:25:12,540 --> 01:25:18,540
No, but like you like we all have like individualized email addresses for our work.
749
01:25:18,540 --> 01:25:24,540
And my warehouse manager would always get like these the spam ones.
750
01:25:24,540 --> 01:25:30,540
And then you'd like go to like the assistant warehouse manager and he goes, do you think this is like a really male is the dude?
751
01:25:30,540 --> 01:25:32,540
The assistant's like, don't fucking open it.
752
01:25:32,540 --> 01:25:35,540
What's wrong with you?
753
01:25:35,540 --> 01:25:40,540
Oh, a Nigerian prince is going to fucking he wants to save the warehouse.
754
01:25:40,540 --> 01:25:45,540
He wants to give us five million dollars and save the business.
755
01:25:45,540 --> 01:26:01,540
But I guess to to wrap up my take on it is I do like the idea that at least Max is a licensed officer of the law if he's going to be dealing with dealing with criminals, even if he doesn't do it in the right way.
756
01:26:01,540 --> 01:26:10,540
And that I guess I'm not doing a great job.
757
01:26:10,540 --> 01:26:25,540
Because what you just said leads me to say that he may be a licensed officer of the law, but he is executing extrajudicial killings left and right, left and right, completely like outside the capacity of his his role as an officer of the law.
758
01:26:25,540 --> 01:26:26,540
Yeah.
759
01:26:26,540 --> 01:26:29,540
So that role is largely superficial.
760
01:26:29,540 --> 01:26:41,540
Yeah, he definitely seeks those situations out for himself, which is again, which I love the fact that both of these roles I never understood as a kid in the Batman universe.
761
01:26:41,540 --> 01:26:47,540
I never understood why the cops were like in every to every single movie, every comic book ever like arc.
762
01:26:47,540 --> 01:26:49,540
There's always like the man, this guy's a freak.
763
01:26:49,540 --> 01:26:53,540
And I never understood it as a kid because like, you know, you don't get like to me.
764
01:26:53,540 --> 01:26:56,540
I was like, oh, he's he may be a vigilante, but he's helping you guys.
765
01:26:56,540 --> 01:27:01,540
He does a really good job of helping you solve crimes and catch these people.
766
01:27:01,540 --> 01:27:05,540
But now that I'm an adult, it makes total fucking sense.
767
01:27:05,540 --> 01:27:09,540
Every time the cops are like, oh, you're going to fucking hang out with that freak.
768
01:27:09,540 --> 01:27:10,540
I'm like, yeah, I'm on their side, dude.
769
01:27:10,540 --> 01:27:16,540
If some guy showed up to a fucking crime scene in a bat suit, I'd be like, get the fuck out of here.
770
01:27:16,540 --> 01:27:17,540
What the fuck are you doing?
771
01:27:17,540 --> 01:27:19,540
Why are you staring at this kid?
772
01:27:19,540 --> 01:27:28,540
Also, the situation where there's multiple murder scenes where there are specifically a card addressed to this weird rubber suit freak.
773
01:27:28,540 --> 01:27:32,540
Yeah. Each scene like you don't think he's putting them there himself.
774
01:27:32,540 --> 01:27:35,540
That's what I mean.
775
01:27:35,540 --> 01:27:39,540
I mean, yeah, I I don't know.
776
01:27:39,540 --> 01:27:46,540
I cannot imagine a situation where any police officer would be happy to see a guy like that show up to a crime scene.
777
01:27:46,540 --> 01:27:49,540
So that but yeah, as a kid, I was like, I don't understand why.
778
01:27:49,540 --> 01:27:52,540
But on the other side, as a kid, I also didn't understand.
779
01:27:52,540 --> 01:27:59,540
Like, you know, you've got your like your lethal weapons or because I forgot the Mel Brooks characters.
780
01:27:59,540 --> 01:28:03,540
No, Jesus Christ. Austin Mel Gibson's character's name.
781
01:28:03,540 --> 01:28:05,540
No, it's a lethal weapon.
782
01:28:05,540 --> 01:28:07,540
Fuck Gibbs, right?
783
01:28:07,540 --> 01:28:08,540
Riggs Riggs.
784
01:28:08,540 --> 01:28:19,540
Yeah. So you got like the Riggs characters or or the Bruce Willis is the John McClain's where it's like they do go crazy and then they have to like double back.
785
01:28:19,540 --> 01:28:23,540
Or I guess a more tame version of it would be like a dirty Harry.
786
01:28:23,540 --> 01:28:31,540
Right. Like the big issue with the original dirty Harry is like he is essentially harassing a guy that's been acquitted of a crime.
787
01:28:31,540 --> 01:28:34,540
Yeah. And goad him into it.
788
01:28:34,540 --> 01:28:38,540
Yeah. So he's so he's following him around until he does something.
789
01:28:38,540 --> 01:28:44,540
And like the one silver lining there is like we know without a shadow of a doubt that he's guilty of sin.
790
01:28:44,540 --> 01:28:52,540
The problem is, is that he's going against the judicial system by not having double jeopardy to be able to open that case up again.
791
01:28:52,540 --> 01:28:55,540
What sucks is like, yeah, he's 100 percent guilty.
792
01:28:55,540 --> 01:29:00,540
But you've got that thing where it's like, OK, Harry, you can't follow this guy around.
793
01:29:00,540 --> 01:29:02,540
It's literally illegal.
794
01:29:02,540 --> 01:29:09,540
You need to stop. So I never understood that as a kid, because to me, when I watched that movie, I was like, well, yeah, he's obviously the bad guy.
795
01:29:09,540 --> 01:29:12,540
But that being said, the real world isn't that simple.
796
01:29:12,540 --> 01:29:19,540
Right. Because we have seen everything from Harry's perspective and we know that's the bad guy and we know he's done something wrong.
797
01:29:19,540 --> 01:29:22,540
That's not how the law works, though. Right. But it's not how the law works.
798
01:29:22,540 --> 01:29:28,540
And in reality, you could be that officer all day long ago. I know that guy did it. I know it's him. I know it's him.
799
01:29:28,540 --> 01:29:34,540
But it's like if you're going to harass somebody after the fact that they've been acquitted, like that's not OK.
800
01:29:34,540 --> 01:29:37,540
It's just yeah. As a kid, I didn't understand those things.
801
01:29:37,540 --> 01:29:40,540
And now that I'm an adult, I do understand those things.
802
01:29:40,540 --> 01:29:45,540
So to see that that Max's department actually took that seriously and was like, all right, we got to let you go, chief.
803
01:29:45,540 --> 01:29:50,540
Like this is this is this is the absolute best scenario.
804
01:29:50,540 --> 01:29:57,540
Like, I don't think people understand this is the best scenario for Max, because he he he should be in jail.
805
01:29:57,540 --> 01:30:02,540
Like he should be in prison. And it hurts me to say because I like Max, but like he should be in jail, man.
806
01:30:02,540 --> 01:30:10,540
Like police. He said he gets to be an international terrorist for a time and then relax the rest of his life on a beach somewhere,
807
01:30:10,540 --> 01:30:14,540
which is quite a nice end to his story, I would say.
808
01:30:14,540 --> 01:30:19,540
Well, I do like that he does start to turn over a new leaf at the end of Max Payne three.
809
01:30:19,540 --> 01:30:30,540
But I don't know if I go that far, but I love I love how cheesy the fucking the new cast is to where it's like they after they show like what's his name?
810
01:30:30,540 --> 01:30:33,540
Victor Bronco, the the politician that's in part of the conspiracy.
811
01:30:33,540 --> 01:30:39,540
He is like hanged in his cell and they're like, we don't know if it was self inflicted or somebody else killed him.
812
01:30:39,540 --> 01:30:45,540
And then the newscaster goes, anyway, in other news, it's rainy here, but it's sunny everywhere else.
813
01:30:45,540 --> 01:30:53,540
And then it just like and Max picks up his duffel bag and walks off into the sunset like and then tears from health plays, which is an amazing song.
814
01:30:53,540 --> 01:31:00,540
But yeah, I love that ending because it's so cheesy. He's he's drinking his his sprite soda on the beach.
815
01:31:00,540 --> 01:31:04,540
Not an alcoholic baby. Yeah. What was your question, Cody?
816
01:31:04,540 --> 01:31:10,540
I was going to ask in his retirement, do you think he starts fucking to repopulate the earth from all the killing he did?
817
01:31:10,540 --> 01:31:26,540
No, absolutely not. No, I think there's a list of there's a list of families out there somewhere that's thousands of names long of people who will end up becoming Batman's or Max Payne's themselves just based on his terrible rampage that he committed over like 30 years.
818
01:31:26,540 --> 01:31:30,540
Yeah, this guy's a fucking menace, dude. He is a menace and says the Batman.
819
01:31:30,540 --> 01:31:40,540
But just like the law, I think this whole discussion is pretty complex, so I'm going to add a little a dash of nuance to it. So I will give you credit, Austin.
820
01:31:40,540 --> 01:31:52,540
I do think that Max Payne has incredible reflexes and we see him at what is ostensibly his worst when he is drunk after they have been kidnapped, when they're about to be taken away in a helicopter.
821
01:31:52,540 --> 01:32:01,540
He ends up shooting like 12 guys on the helipad while hanging drunk off his ass and high on pills, which is both of those things are established.
822
01:32:01,540 --> 01:32:08,540
He shoots like 12 of them while the helicopter is moving and he's hanging on for dear life with one arm.
823
01:32:08,540 --> 01:32:11,540
And then then he shoots a rocket propelled grenade out of the air.
824
01:32:11,540 --> 01:32:18,540
That's literally shoots a rocket grenade out of the air while drunk and swaying on the helicopter.
825
01:32:18,540 --> 01:32:29,540
So I think he's pretty skilled, but I also think that Batman is, you know, we don't see much of it in the movie, but ostensibly, you know, his real skill is being prepared.
826
01:32:29,540 --> 01:32:41,540
Right. You talk about the utility belt with Adam West Batman and obviously that's played for laughs a lot of the time because he's often got a very specific item for exactly the problem that he's facing.
827
01:32:41,540 --> 01:32:48,540
But the truth is that in most depictions of Batman, you see him doing very heavy research on whoever he's like interacting with.
828
01:32:48,540 --> 01:33:00,540
So I imagine. So what do you come down to is awareness, whether that's awareness of like, oh shit, they're meeting for the first time and they see each other and Max is like weird, freaking rubber shoot bang.
829
01:33:00,540 --> 01:33:02,540
And Batman just doesn't see him.
830
01:33:02,540 --> 01:33:14,540
Or if Batman is aware of who Max Payne is, I doubt that he's going to be, you know, going around those haunts without some kind of extra protection against super, super accurate bullets.
831
01:33:14,540 --> 01:33:32,540
And so the actual like setup that we came up with in high school for this fight wasn't that they were seeking each other out. It's that they were both trying to solve the same crime and that they disagreed with how they were going to face the final boss, if you will.
832
01:33:32,540 --> 01:33:37,540
Right. So like, let's say they're going after the penguin and Max is like, I'm just going to waltz in there and shoot all his goons and kill him.
833
01:33:37,540 --> 01:33:44,540
And then fucking Batman's like, no, we can't do that. That's he can't put him in jail so he can break out again so we can do this again.
834
01:33:44,540 --> 01:33:48,540
Like that's that would be the parameters. So it all comes down to.
835
01:33:48,540 --> 01:33:57,540
And OK, so now I guess I could see if and if a criminal organization in Brazil sought Max out.
836
01:33:57,540 --> 01:33:58,540
Yes.
837
01:33:58,540 --> 01:34:17,540
Then I would think that Batman would probably have some idea of who he is and the fact that theoretically, since Gotham City is basically New York City and they would be within the same city and Max would be working for the same the same police department
838
01:34:17,540 --> 01:34:19,540
that he probably would know who he was.
839
01:34:19,540 --> 01:34:21,540
They both suck.
840
01:34:21,540 --> 01:34:28,540
Yeah, Max Max Payne would have frickin shot Harvey Bullock in the face if they existed in the same universe.
841
01:34:28,540 --> 01:34:31,540
You know, no, I think I think you're right.
842
01:34:31,540 --> 01:34:37,540
I well it is establishing Max Payne three that Max is like internationally known as a fuck up ex cop.
843
01:34:37,540 --> 01:34:41,540
Somehow like these guys do have awareness of him, which is insane.
844
01:34:41,540 --> 01:34:48,540
But like clearly the incidents that he was at the center of in the previous games were big enough stories that they made national if not international headlines.
845
01:34:48,540 --> 01:34:51,540
Yeah, well, I mean, he did uncover conspiracy.
846
01:34:51,540 --> 01:34:53,540
Pharmaceutical conspiracy.
847
01:34:53,540 --> 01:34:54,540
Yeah.
848
01:34:54,540 --> 01:34:56,540
And the inner circle is also a big thing.
849
01:34:56,540 --> 01:34:59,540
They never seem to be able to catch anybody from the inner circle.
850
01:34:59,540 --> 01:35:05,540
But sometimes they arrest people who are like fringes of this political group that are basically running New York from the shadows.
851
01:35:05,540 --> 01:35:08,540
So he's the game does address it a little bit.
852
01:35:08,540 --> 01:35:21,540
He's very heavily decorated, but like the the news of what he's done is always very heavily juxtaposed with like and we gave him a whole bunch of like slaps on the wrist for a bunch of things because, you know, he blew up several street corners.
853
01:35:21,540 --> 01:35:31,540
And that's another weird thing that Max Payne avoids where Batman doesn't write like Batman was very explicit in this movie about like people fucking died in this city.
854
01:35:31,540 --> 01:35:36,540
Right. Like innocence died in both the Max Payne games one and two.
855
01:35:36,540 --> 01:35:38,540
You never see civilians ever.
856
01:35:38,540 --> 01:35:41,540
And the narrative is very like lenient with this.
857
01:35:41,540 --> 01:35:52,540
So like in the first one, it's because they have a record snowstorm and everyone was told to stay inside because everyone in New York always listens to what they're told to do.
858
01:35:52,540 --> 01:35:57,540
So there's literally no one on the streets, which is impossible in New York.
859
01:35:57,540 --> 01:36:00,540
But basically, that's the Finnish idea of New York.
860
01:36:00,540 --> 01:36:01,540
Right.
861
01:36:01,540 --> 01:36:02,540
The what?
862
01:36:02,540 --> 01:36:03,540
Aren't they Finnish?
863
01:36:03,540 --> 01:36:04,540
The developers of the game?
864
01:36:04,540 --> 01:36:05,540
Oh, yeah.
865
01:36:05,540 --> 01:36:07,540
That's their idea of New York City.
866
01:36:07,540 --> 01:36:09,540
Everyone stays inside when they're told they listen.
867
01:36:09,540 --> 01:36:11,540
Sometimes they like what was it?
868
01:36:11,540 --> 01:36:12,540
Hurricane Sandy.
869
01:36:12,540 --> 01:36:16,540
They the whole city stopped because everything got flooded and nobody could actually fucking do anything.
870
01:36:16,540 --> 01:36:18,540
So they didn't go anywhere.
871
01:36:18,540 --> 01:36:23,540
New York City also had a massive blizzard a handful of years ago that did stop the whole city.
872
01:36:23,540 --> 01:36:25,540
So I would say that that's true.
873
01:36:25,540 --> 01:36:27,540
I remember pictures of that.
874
01:36:27,540 --> 01:36:32,540
And it was all guys with grease back hair going, hey, who were out on the front during that blizzard.
875
01:36:32,540 --> 01:36:33,540
Yeah.
876
01:36:33,540 --> 01:36:34,540
But that's the thing.
877
01:36:34,540 --> 01:36:35,540
No one was on the streets.
878
01:36:35,540 --> 01:36:37,540
No one was in the subways in these games.
879
01:36:37,540 --> 01:36:40,540
The only people that were were the mob people.
880
01:36:40,540 --> 01:36:48,540
So it's basically like anybody that you see bar like maybe the one security guard at the end of the game or at the beginning of the game that's in the subway system.
881
01:36:48,540 --> 01:36:51,540
That's like they're they're running around killing people.
882
01:36:51,540 --> 01:36:52,540
And Max goes like, thanks.
883
01:36:52,540 --> 01:36:58,540
And then you run past him like there are very few innocents running around.
884
01:36:58,540 --> 01:37:02,540
I don't think Max ever reckons with the collateral damage of his actions.
885
01:37:02,540 --> 01:37:17,540
In the third game, at least there really wasn't any like dialogue as far as I remember where he really had to sit down and a real think about like how have my adventures affected the people of New Jersey or New York in the past.
886
01:37:17,540 --> 01:37:27,540
You can actually you can even kill the bartender and the woman that you fight for in the bar if you because they're hiding behind the bar.
887
01:37:27,540 --> 01:37:30,540
So if you go back there and you shoot them, the game doesn't end.
888
01:37:30,540 --> 01:37:33,540
They like they don't give you a game over screen or anything.
889
01:37:33,540 --> 01:37:35,540
And Max doesn't comment on it at all.
890
01:37:35,540 --> 01:37:36,540
It's very anything.
891
01:37:36,540 --> 01:37:42,540
I don't think so because he's already he's already ran downstairs by the time you're able to actually do that.
892
01:37:42,540 --> 01:37:46,540
But so that's like one of those things where I think was just a game oversight.
893
01:37:46,540 --> 01:37:52,540
Right. Like I don't think that they would allow you to do that narratively because it doesn't make any sense.
894
01:37:52,540 --> 01:37:57,540
It's got if Rockstar made that game now that you lose immediately have to restart the mission.
895
01:37:57,540 --> 01:38:02,540
Like in Red Dead 2, if you tried to approach a building from the wrong direction, you would.
896
01:38:02,540 --> 01:38:04,540
That's that's a whole different issue.
897
01:38:04,540 --> 01:38:08,540
So I think was Max Payne there during 9 11.
898
01:38:08,540 --> 01:38:09,540
Yeah, he would have.
899
01:38:09,540 --> 01:38:12,540
So they don't he must have been they don't talk about it.
900
01:38:12,540 --> 01:38:16,540
But the first game was released in 2001, I believe.
901
01:38:16,540 --> 01:38:18,540
So I don't know.
902
01:38:18,540 --> 01:38:25,540
I mean, imagine there's just like a like a hard boiled monologue in the second game is like, and that's where the Twin Towers would have been.
903
01:38:25,540 --> 01:38:28,540
No, he would have been like, I would be on top of the tower.
904
01:38:28,540 --> 01:38:39,540
I would have been on top of the North Tower and I would have shot the hijacker in the head with my if Max if Max was involved with with 9 11, a third tower would have gone down somehow.
905
01:38:39,540 --> 01:38:44,540
Somehow there would have been another massive building that would have been you mean Tower Seven.
906
01:38:44,540 --> 01:38:46,540
No, there would have been like a Tower Eight.
907
01:38:46,540 --> 01:38:49,540
There was a Tower Eight that would have blown up the Pentagon and the White House.
908
01:38:49,540 --> 01:38:51,540
You know, I mean, everything.
909
01:38:51,540 --> 01:38:53,540
I mean, they almost did.
910
01:38:53,540 --> 01:39:04,540
Yeah, conveniently the part of the Pentagon, a Pentagon, the part of the Pentagon that got destroyed during 9 11 conveniently housed all the records of the trillions of dollars that were missing.
911
01:39:04,540 --> 01:39:05,540
Yeah, we're weird.
912
01:39:05,540 --> 01:39:07,540
Yeah, it's a shame that that happened.
913
01:39:07,540 --> 01:39:08,540
I don't know.
914
01:39:08,540 --> 01:39:11,540
The audit ramping up for life's a beach.
915
01:39:11,540 --> 01:39:12,540
So surfeit.
916
01:39:12,540 --> 01:39:14,540
Am I right?
917
01:39:14,540 --> 01:39:17,540
But yeah, anyway, back to back to the ending.
918
01:39:17,540 --> 01:39:19,540
Wrapping this up of our discussion here.
919
01:39:19,540 --> 01:39:24,540
I think Batman has worked in the past with people who are not like they don't follow his code of ethics.
920
01:39:24,540 --> 01:39:26,540
There's tons of instances in comics.
921
01:39:26,540 --> 01:39:28,540
He works with people who kill.
922
01:39:28,540 --> 01:39:30,540
Yeah, you know, exactly.
923
01:39:30,540 --> 01:39:34,540
And there are other people like in the Nolan movies, like he fucks Tally Al Ghul.
924
01:39:34,540 --> 01:39:35,540
Right.
925
01:39:35,540 --> 01:39:38,540
And like the Al Ghul family is evil.
926
01:39:38,540 --> 01:39:39,540
They're assassins.
927
01:39:39,540 --> 01:39:41,540
They literally murder.
928
01:39:41,540 --> 01:39:42,540
Yeah.
929
01:39:42,540 --> 01:39:52,540
Even the moment where he goes to the orphanage with Gordon and then he's like, we're not using guns, which is the stupidest thing to say to a fucking cop.
930
01:39:52,540 --> 01:39:53,540
Put your gun away.
931
01:39:53,540 --> 01:39:54,540
We're not using guns.
932
01:39:54,540 --> 01:39:56,540
And then Gordon goes, that's your whole ordeal, bro.
933
01:39:56,540 --> 01:39:57,540
Don't fucking.
934
01:39:57,540 --> 01:40:01,540
I'm not like, yeah, I like rolled my eyes at that.
935
01:40:01,540 --> 01:40:04,540
Like you're going to tell a fucking lieutenant on the police force.
936
01:40:04,540 --> 01:40:06,540
Don't pull your gun out.
937
01:40:06,540 --> 01:40:19,540
Hey, hey, I have I have fucking bulletproof bat vest on and the master jujitsu black belt bullshit, but you have a gun is your only means to defend yourself and you can't use it.
938
01:40:19,540 --> 01:40:21,540
Sorry, how you got to understand it's a trauma response.
939
01:40:21,540 --> 01:40:24,540
OK, you got to just give him the credit where it's due.
940
01:40:24,540 --> 01:40:26,540
It's a trauma response.
941
01:40:26,540 --> 01:40:34,540
But anyway, yes, I think that he would be probably the Batman will probably be be aware of Max Payne, given his national notoriety.
942
01:40:34,540 --> 01:40:43,540
Which leads me to believe that if he were involved in something where they were chasing the same guy and he were to encounter him, it wouldn't immediately go to I'm going to fight you.
943
01:40:43,540 --> 01:40:52,540
That being said, I do think he would absolutely try to arrest Max if he would or not arrest him, but like string him up and drop him in a hole in the top of the local county jail or whatever.
944
01:40:52,540 --> 01:40:59,540
Whatever Batman does in the Batman, I don't you don't really see him actually deal with criminals outside of just beating the shit out of them.
945
01:40:59,540 --> 01:41:10,540
So I don't know if he's like doing the Adam West thing or what, but I presume he would string up Max Payne or at least try to, which wouldn't I don't think would go well.
946
01:41:10,540 --> 01:41:12,540
And then I would love to see that, too.
947
01:41:12,540 --> 01:41:19,540
So like they he delivers Max Payne back to the GCP and then they're like, Detective Payne, what are you doing?
948
01:41:19,540 --> 01:41:21,540
Get out of here.
949
01:41:21,540 --> 01:41:24,540
Again.
950
01:41:24,540 --> 01:41:35,540
So anyway, yeah, I think to wrap it all up in a conclusion, I think, you know, there's many possibilities for what might happen if Max Payne were to meet and have to fight Batman.
951
01:41:35,540 --> 01:41:40,540
But these particular instances, I think it all comes down to preparedness.
952
01:41:40,540 --> 01:41:47,540
I think if they're coming in there and Batman knows who he's dealing with, he might be able to get the jump on Max because Max is a pill popping drunkard.
953
01:41:47,540 --> 01:41:50,540
You know, it's not really that hard to surprise him.
954
01:41:50,540 --> 01:41:55,540
He's very surprised at many points in the third game, so I don't think it'd be too hard to surprise him.
955
01:41:55,540 --> 01:42:08,540
But however, if they were just to encounter each other in the street and have a face off like you were talking about with your your high school thing where they have a genuine disagreement, I think Max would probably be able to ice him straight through his mask.
956
01:42:08,540 --> 01:42:12,540
Yeah, I think it's very circumstantial. I definitely agree with you there.
957
01:42:12,540 --> 01:42:15,540
Any any thoughts, Cody? Any any closing thoughts?
958
01:42:15,540 --> 01:42:22,540
I had something and then you kept talking and then I lost it. I fucking I hate my brain.
959
01:42:22,540 --> 01:42:31,540
What was it? Was it if Lelouch Lamparouge came into the.
960
01:42:31,540 --> 01:42:35,540
How would Luffy factor into this? We're in New Jersey. We're in New Jersey.
961
01:42:35,540 --> 01:42:45,540
Batman is the pirate of New Jersey, King of the Pirates shows up to Batman and Max Payne fighting Max Payne. Max Payne wouldn't be able to kill him.
962
01:42:45,540 --> 01:42:48,540
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Max Payne is useless against Luffy.
963
01:42:48,540 --> 01:42:51,540
That's true. Like Luffy just fucking punches him and he's dead.
964
01:42:51,540 --> 01:42:58,540
Like, well, and because he's he's rubberized, the bullets could just like pass through him and he would re assimilate just fine.
965
01:42:58,540 --> 01:43:07,540
So I don't know. The bullets would bounce off of him. They bounce back. They just ricochet and fucking he'd be riddled with bullets and dead.
966
01:43:07,540 --> 01:43:18,540
But but I think that's a situation where Batman would pretty quickly be able to research the weakness of the devil fruit and exploit it very easily by just putting Luffy in a net and dropping him in the ocean.
967
01:43:18,540 --> 01:43:24,540
How would he be able to deduce that if this is the first time that he's ever encountered it? Anyway, that's a whole separate conversation.
968
01:43:24,540 --> 01:43:28,540
Because I mean, I imagine you're notorious if you're the king of the pirates.
969
01:43:28,540 --> 01:43:33,540
So you'd have to. Yeah, but like this is a whole. I know you're the king of the pirates. He's also not king of the pirates.
970
01:43:33,540 --> 01:43:40,540
He wants to be. I know you're willing to be king of the pirates to rise into the top. I've seen it. I've watched you.
971
01:43:40,540 --> 01:43:44,540
Well, Batman is also aspirationally trying to be vengeance, you know?
972
01:43:44,540 --> 01:43:55,540
Yeah. Well, I think that was also a message, right? Was like when the like when the guy very comically like they slow down the footage like I'm Vengeance.
973
01:43:55,540 --> 01:43:58,540
And they're like, oh, OK, well, maybe this isn't a good look for me.
974
01:43:58,540 --> 01:44:06,540
There's an incel here holding a rifle that's killing a bunch of innocent people. They all they'll call him like everyone in the movie like the Penguin.
975
01:44:06,540 --> 01:44:14,540
I think Falcone does too at one point and then the Catwoman, they all call him like diminutively call him vengeance.
976
01:44:14,540 --> 01:44:19,540
Well, because I think that's his tagline. Come on. No, I don't think so.
977
01:44:19,540 --> 01:44:23,540
Doesn't he say I'm vengeance to the Joker dudes when he beats him up?
978
01:44:23,540 --> 01:44:26,540
I think he might. But like, how would they all know about that?
979
01:44:26,540 --> 01:44:29,540
I think they're just calling him an edge lord because he is an edge lord.
980
01:44:29,540 --> 01:44:33,540
No, I think he's I literally think he's going around saying this.
981
01:44:33,540 --> 01:44:38,540
And then when people like when they beat him, no, I know I vengeance.
982
01:44:38,540 --> 01:44:42,540
I'm Vengeance. That's genuinely what I took away from that.
983
01:44:42,540 --> 01:44:49,540
Like he says it to them. And then after that, it's like that's his whole schtick is like he thinks he's making a difference this way,
984
01:44:49,540 --> 01:44:51,540
even though in his diary he writes about it differently.
985
01:44:51,540 --> 01:45:00,540
But like, hey, my whole life is now going to be about beating criminals down where it should be more about protecting the citizens of Gotham.
986
01:45:00,540 --> 01:45:07,540
And I think he says that to them. And then when they interview them afterwards, like you said, when they've got no due process on it, they're like, so what happens?
987
01:45:07,540 --> 01:45:16,540
Like this guy came up in a bat suit, beat me up and said I'm Vengeance broke my fucking radial muscle or radial bone and then fucking ran off.
988
01:45:16,540 --> 01:45:22,540
Like, I think that's genuinely what's going on. Yeah. I mean, he's insane.
989
01:45:22,540 --> 01:45:26,540
Did you guys see the meme that I sent before we before we wrap this up for good?
990
01:45:26,540 --> 01:45:32,540
Excellent meme breaking down the difference here between the Virgin Batman and the Chad Max Payne.
991
01:45:32,540 --> 01:45:35,540
Wait, where are you getting these from?
992
01:45:35,540 --> 01:45:39,540
I did my research, Austin. That's where I'm getting these from.
993
01:45:39,540 --> 01:45:46,540
Is this like an actual thing? Because the only thing I was able to find about this and the last time I looked for it was when I was in high school.
994
01:45:46,540 --> 01:45:48,540
There was a fucking a forum.
995
01:45:48,540 --> 01:45:49,540
Austin, I spent 10 years.
996
01:45:49,540 --> 01:45:58,540
I know. But I'm just I'm I'm impressed that there's a there's a whole bunch of other people out here that have had the same argument.
997
01:45:58,540 --> 01:46:13,540
Well, I think it's less an argument and more of the comparison is natural to draw because they're both like dark edge lords who are like refusing to examine their own personal trauma of losing their family specifically to being murdered.
998
01:46:13,540 --> 01:46:19,540
You know, and the exact vengeance extra judicially as vigilantes. Max Payne is a vigilante.
999
01:46:19,540 --> 01:46:26,540
I mean, that's what he is. He might have been an undercover cop, but he is acting outside his capacity as a police officer when he's murdering all those people.
1000
01:46:26,540 --> 01:46:29,540
So he's not much different than like the Punisher.
1001
01:46:29,540 --> 01:46:35,540
But like it's a good comparison because they're both kind of freaks. Just one's an alcoholic and one dresses up in a fucking rubber suit.
1002
01:46:35,540 --> 01:46:39,540
Any closing thoughts from you guys before we actually wrap up here?
1003
01:46:39,540 --> 01:46:45,540
Yeah, you already know who I think should be put in a fucking asylum. All right. You should be put in Arkham.
1004
01:46:45,540 --> 01:46:54,540
No, I think everyone I think everyone should take pills and see if they're better shooting guns while on them. That's my takeaway. I don't think anybody should do. Don't do that. Don't do that.
1005
01:46:54,540 --> 01:47:07,540
All right. Well, I hope that everyone has enjoyed this discussion. And as always, if you have any thoughts on this subject, this discussion, there are a lot of passionate people out there based on the memes, the videos and all the space battles.org
1006
01:47:07,540 --> 01:47:17,540
postings about Max Payne versus Batman. Please do email us at Cody's real email at gmail.com and let us know who you think would win and why.
1007
01:47:17,540 --> 01:47:26,540
You know, if there's any details we missed or anything about the movie or Max Payne 3 that you think we need to go over, let us know and we'll include it in our next recording.
1008
01:47:26,540 --> 01:47:29,540
All right, Austin, you got you got any final thoughts you want to share before we close out?
1009
01:47:29,540 --> 01:47:39,540
Yeah, I'm always going to root for my boy. Doesn't matter. Even if I internally think like, yep, this might not be a good one for him. Money's always going on Max. Got to do it.
1010
01:47:39,540 --> 01:47:44,540
I can't believe you're rooting for a terrorist. It's so unlike you.
1011
01:47:44,540 --> 01:47:49,540
I mean, they're both terrorists. Like, didn't you join the military to like fight the war on terror?
1012
01:47:49,540 --> 01:47:54,540
They did. Yeah, I have a ribbon that tells me that I was in the global war on terror and everything.
1013
01:47:54,540 --> 01:47:55,540
That's fucked up.
1014
01:47:55,540 --> 01:48:02,540
You're going against your country. It just shows that this like all subjects that we talk about is very nuanced.
1015
01:48:02,540 --> 01:48:08,540
All right, until next time. Bye.
1016
01:48:08,540 --> 01:48:12,540
You've been listening to Learner's Permit.
1017
01:48:12,540 --> 01:48:15,540
Thanks for listening.
1018
01:48:15,540 --> 01:48:19,540
We hope you learned something today.
1019
01:48:19,540 --> 01:48:22,540
Until next time.
1020
01:48:22,540 --> 01:48:29,540
Goodbye.