From Marine to Mind Master: Dr. Bob Choat on Integration and Potential

Bob Cho
00:00:00
You're not going to have like one career and expect this to be the path.

Bob Cho
00:00:05
Those days are long gone.

Bob Cho
00:00:06
We tamped down that expressive side, we tamped down that creative side and we tamped down the shadow side.

Bob Cho
00:00:13
So we need to allow that to come out and express once again.

Bob Cho
00:00:16
I love helping people.

Bob Cho
00:00:17
That's my foundation.

Bob Cho
00:00:19
I think that's one of the reasons I went into the Marine Corps as a protector, the lapd.

Host
00:00:43
All right, welcome to the Evolving Potential podcast.

Host
00:00:45
I am super excited to have it here with me.

Host
00:00:48
Bob Cho, the grand master of transformation.

Host
00:00:51
He is a Marine Corps veteran.

Host
00:00:52
He was a Marine once Marine, always Marines.

Host
00:00:54
I hate saying he was a Marine, but former LAPD officer, fifth degree black belt and Kenpo Jeet Kune do instructor.

Host
00:01:02
He has a PhD in psychology.

Host
00:01:04
He's a certified master trainer in NLP.

Host
00:01:07
He's a executive and peak performance coach, a certified hypnotherapist, as well as a former renowned stage hypnotist called Bobby Spade.

Host
00:01:17
So this is very interesting.

Host
00:01:18
We'll have to talk about that.

Host
00:01:20
I like to consider all of this being what's called a polymath.

Host
00:01:23
Someone who's incredibly gifted in multiple fields, has studied in multiple different fields and moved into the expertise field in at least one.

Host
00:01:31
And so he is also the creative force behind the School of Transformation podcast.

Host
00:01:37
He has his own podcast.

Host
00:01:38
He's an accomplished author of a book called Mind you'd own Fitness, as well as his new book that's coming soon, Develop the Champion Within.

Host
00:01:46
He has also co authored a book called Unleashing Firepower, the Masters of Business Excellence.

Host
00:01:51
He's also started the Integrated Mind Institute and has been widely recognized in many articles for his expertise in peak performance.

Host
00:01:59
So I am happy, grateful, excited for Bob to be here with me and we'll just kind of chat and see what sort of value we can provide.

Host
00:02:07
Love.

Host
00:02:08
First for you to talk about how you got involved in this world of transformation after transitioning out of a life of being a Marine and being a LAPD officer.

Bob Cho
00:02:20
Yeah, I think even before the Marines, it's always about transformation.

Bob Cho
00:02:27
So like with me, early on I had a major stutter and I was very anxious and under a lot of stress.

Bob Cho
00:02:36
I had a father that was very abusive and everything.

Bob Cho
00:02:39
And I was diagnosed.

Bob Cho
00:02:42
So going back in clinical diagnosis, especially in the area of psychology, they had like these major labels and one of the labels that they had based on your IQ score, because I took an IQ score at age 5 and it was very low, it was at 70 and that was the cutoff point for a diagnostic label I like to call label, but it wasn't a label back then of moron.

Bob Cho
00:03:19
And there was others as well.

Bob Cho
00:03:21
Yeah, but that was an actual diagnostic what was done.

Bob Cho
00:03:27
And I forget the gentleman's name who came up with it.

Bob Cho
00:03:30
A psychologist back in the early 20th century.

Bob Cho
00:03:33
And so back in those days we still had that.

Bob Cho
00:03:36
And it wasn't changed till later on that they got rid of those.

Bob Cho
00:03:40
I believe that was in the early 70s.

Bob Cho
00:03:42
They finally got rid of it.

Bob Cho
00:03:44
I had the diagnosis back in the 50s.

Bob Cho
00:03:47
I was born in 1951.

Bob Cho
00:03:48
So.

Host
00:03:49
Geez, that's crazy.

Host
00:03:50
The technical term.

Host
00:03:51
The technical term was like correct.

Bob Cho
00:03:55
Yeah, geez.

Bob Cho
00:03:56
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:03:57
So I was introduced even going like later on because it was in my file as a.

Bob Cho
00:04:04
And so that that stuck with me in a sense.

Bob Cho
00:04:08
And my mom recognized it.

Bob Cho
00:04:10
I'm half Japanese and my mom recognized that that wasn't right.

Bob Cho
00:04:15
So when I was living in Okinawa, she put me into martial arts.

Bob Cho
00:04:19
So I lived there for three years to study goju and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:04:22
And that was my early transformation to have that shift.

Bob Cho
00:04:26
And then that helped me quite a bit, including in school and so forth.

Bob Cho
00:04:32
And then by the time I got to junior high I was like excelling in various subjects, like in math, for example, I was in seventh grade.

Bob Cho
00:04:42
I was already doing algebra and then geometry in 8th grade and then going further on all the way to calculus in 10th grade and also doing physics and everything else early on.

Bob Cho
00:04:55
So that whole nerd thing came on top of that.

Bob Cho
00:04:59
Doing sports and involved in all kinds of other areas.

Bob Cho
00:05:03
Even in a ninth grade, I still stuttered, but also performed with two other friends in a talent show.

Bob Cho
00:05:12
So singing and dancing and all that kind of stuff, we ended up winning.

Bob Cho
00:05:16
And so yeah, so transformation wasn't just later on.

Bob Cho
00:05:21
It just was on ongoing thing.

Bob Cho
00:05:23
I graduated early.

Host
00:05:25
Do you feel like, in your personal opinion.

Host
00:05:28
Sorry to cut you off.

Host
00:05:29
Do you feel like in your personal opinion that a lot of the physical training stuff you did helped with your stuttering?

Host
00:05:34
Helped with, you know, getting your thoughts out?

Host
00:05:37
Or does that something that you didn't notice until later that you're kind of were able to overcome the stuttering?

Bob Cho
00:05:43
Yeah, I still stuttered.

Bob Cho
00:05:46
I think it helped quite a bit.

Bob Cho
00:05:48
Especially a lot of the stuff in neuroscience.

Bob Cho
00:05:51
We know that physical training helps with the brain in particular, like learning and memory and all those kind of things.

Bob Cho
00:05:59
I think being able to sync up the brain.

Bob Cho
00:06:02
I learned that much later in terms of the off sync, especially with stuttering and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:06:09
And if you if you have anxiety and stress, it creates that the sync between our verbal and.

Bob Cho
00:06:16
And what we think, what we want to say and expressing it is just out, out of kilter.

Bob Cho
00:06:22
And so I learned that and especially connecting with my body, doing the martial arts and then other sports and everything else that helped quite a bit more than I think physical fitness is important for the brain growth, but also in learning, being able to sync up our bodies and doing it a certain way.

Bob Cho
00:06:42
Like for example in a martial arts, when I do was doing katas and having that sync that helped quite a bit.

Bob Cho
00:06:49
And studying all the different martial arts and being able to move through different martial arts.

Bob Cho
00:06:55
And then again my nerd self I would study and all that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:07:00
How does this thing work?

Bob Cho
00:07:01
How does this thing work?

Bob Cho
00:07:01
I look at the physics and physiology and and I would break it down.

Bob Cho
00:07:06
Eventually going back to the stuttering part, I realized that I can also shift that nervousness that would have especially getting into public speaking.

Bob Cho
00:07:16
So I recognized that and I studied that.

Bob Cho
00:07:19
The same feeling in our body that we have a fear of production, everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:07:25
That same feeling in our body is the same feeling of excitement.

Bob Cho
00:07:30
And so I just shifted those words.

Bob Cho
00:07:33
I understood that just like doing shifting in a martial arts.

Bob Cho
00:07:37
And so once I understood that everything shifted in terms of public speaking, I was able to take something that was scary to me, public speaking to something that excited me and I can get out there now.

Bob Cho
00:07:51
And now it's something I get to do, not something I fear to do.

Host
00:07:55
That's really powerful.

Host
00:07:56
So I've actually shared that, that with someone as well.

Host
00:07:59
So it's like the idea that there is some sort of sensation that we experience and those sensations equal like a feeling.

Host
00:08:07
And that feeling might be like upset stomach or tingling or heart rate increasing and stuff.

Host
00:08:13
And then we create a story for that sensation.

Host
00:08:17
So it's like, okay, well this sensation means I'm nervous.

Host
00:08:21
I have so much anxiety.

Host
00:08:22
Oh my gosh, I'm so, I'm so stressed.

Host
00:08:24
And so we can switch that to that story to being excited.

Host
00:08:28
And I've actually shared that with a coworker one time who was doing a job interview for some her some like dream job she wanted.

Host
00:08:34
And she was like, oh my gosh, I'm just so nervous, I have so much anxiety.

Host
00:08:37
And I was like, well, aren't you like excited about the opportunity?

Host
00:08:40
Aren't you excited that you could potentially get this job?

Host
00:08:41
She's like, well, yeah.

Host
00:08:42
And I was like, do you know that excitement and anxiety feel the same in the body they have the same physiological response.

Host
00:08:47
And she was like, no way.

Host
00:08:48
And then, like, ended up telling me a week later that, like, it just completely changed her drive to the interview.

Host
00:08:53
Completely changed her experience at the interview with that one little.

Host
00:08:57
One little shift.

Host
00:08:58
So that's.

Host
00:08:58
That's a powerful one.

Host
00:08:59
Yeah, for sure.

Bob Cho
00:09:00
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:09:01
We can look at anything that happens within our body, and we can interpret a number of different ways.

Bob Cho
00:09:09
And a lot of.

Bob Cho
00:09:11
A lot of the research in psychology has been done in a Western, Western world.

Bob Cho
00:09:15
But when we look at, like, for example, in the Asian culture, they have a different interpretation of what's happening within our body.

Bob Cho
00:09:24
Even facial expressions are much different.

Bob Cho
00:09:26
So we have all these kind of different interpretations that we have to learn and understand.

Bob Cho
00:09:31
Going through all the emotions and understanding that emotions are simply our interpretation of physiological things that happen with our own body.

Bob Cho
00:09:42
There.

Bob Cho
00:09:43
It's nothing else.

Bob Cho
00:09:44
People think that emotions come before feelings.

Bob Cho
00:09:47
No, your feelings come and then you have an interpretation called an emotion.

Bob Cho
00:09:54
And we.

Bob Cho
00:09:54
And then we have a thought that.

Bob Cho
00:09:56
That interprets that as well.

Bob Cho
00:09:58
So it starts with feelings to emotions to thoughts.

Host
00:10:02
Yeah, see?

Host
00:10:03
And that's.

Host
00:10:04
That's it, Cash.

Host
00:10:04
That's exactly what I am.

Host
00:10:06
Actually.

Host
00:10:06
I'm getting my master's in sociology right now.

Host
00:10:09
To study primarily that, to study the factors of how our social group, how our cultural conditioning teaches us what sort of experiences we're having and what those mean.

Host
00:10:21
And so those experiences could equal anxiety, or those experiences could just equal the normal human experience as the ebb and flow of normal emotion and sadness and grief and.

Host
00:10:33
And all those things that are very normal to be thinking about, or maybe you are focusing too much on thinking about the future and blah, blah.

Host
00:10:40
And like, that doesn't mean you have anxiety as a.

Host
00:10:43
As an anxiety disorder.

Host
00:10:44
And so I always struggle to want to go there with people because it's.

Host
00:10:47
It's like a touchy subject.

Host
00:10:49
It's like, okay, there are.

Host
00:10:50
Are people that have it a little bit more intensely.

Host
00:10:51
There are people that experience these things, and it's very real to them.

Host
00:10:54
And I get it.

Host
00:10:55
But at the same time, it's like if you were raised in a culture that never taught you the word anxiety, then you wouldn't have anxiety.

Host
00:11:02
It would be more of a.

Host
00:11:03
Just a human experience that you could learn to interpret in a way that's positive.

Bob Cho
00:11:09
Correct?

Bob Cho
00:11:09
Correct.

Bob Cho
00:11:10
Yeah, I think.

Bob Cho
00:11:12
In fact, I read an article recently, and the article talked about how a lot in today's younger generation, they see a lot of therapists and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:11:25
Go see a therapist and it turns out that that's led to a lot of emotional disorders.

Bob Cho
00:11:33
And I think a lot of therapists inadvertently has created labels onto these people.

Bob Cho
00:11:40
So this is what you're going through.

Bob Cho
00:11:42
So now you're this.

Bob Cho
00:11:44
And so you have this disorder.

Bob Cho
00:11:46
And it's the same thing like going back to the 80s and early 90s where we heard about these kids like McMark in school and things like that, where they were supposedly molested by schools and all these things, but those were implanted memories.

Bob Cho
00:12:07
So it's the same thing like that.

Bob Cho
00:12:09
I think a lot of therapists, they don't know what they don't know, so they create these labels, these interpretations of what's happening within these people's bodies, and then all of a sudden they're this.

Bob Cho
00:12:20
And I have told a lot of therapists and other people in the mental health build, don't try to interpret like what's going through these people as this, because you don't know yet.

Bob Cho
00:12:33
Now you're creating something that didn't exist before.

Host
00:12:38
Yeah, yeah, it, it honestly creates.

Host
00:12:41
There's a whole social problem that I, that I see there.

Host
00:12:43
And, and Daniel Smachtenberger, like a social philosopher, talks a lot about this as well, where it's like there's this need that we have for certainty and there's need, there's need we have for an answers and the quick fix.

Host
00:12:56
And so there is a pressure on the reverse end, you know, of not just the therapist to feel the need to label, but for that person to be wanting a label for wanting, oh, if I know what it is, that I can start working on fixing it.

Host
00:13:11
You know what I mean?

Host
00:13:12
And so they, they're, they're going to the doctor, they're going to the therapist looking for a label, thinking that that will make them better, when in reality it generally turns into a lifelong condition at that point.

Bob Cho
00:13:22
Correct.

Bob Cho
00:13:23
I'm glad you brought up certainty versus uncertainty.

Bob Cho
00:13:27
And you're absolutely right, is that people, and that's human nature.

Bob Cho
00:13:32
You know, we, we create things that we want things to be a certain way.

Bob Cho
00:13:37
And the truth is things change.

Bob Cho
00:13:39
Things change all the time.

Bob Cho
00:13:42
I've, I've been around for a long time and I've seen a lot of different changes through the many decades.

Bob Cho
00:13:47
And, and a lot of the stuff was not even predicted to happen.

Bob Cho
00:13:54
I mean, look at like the last year and a half when ChatGPT came out.

Bob Cho
00:14:00
Now there's been a lot of new businesses created using the API from OpenAI to create all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:14:10
And you probably saw OpenAI.

Bob Cho
00:14:12
Sora.

Host
00:14:14
No, I can't say.

Bob Cho
00:14:15
Have.

Host
00:14:15
No, tell me.

Bob Cho
00:14:16
So SORA is a text to video creation.

Bob Cho
00:14:21
You just do the prompt and it'll create amazing high resolution videos.

Bob Cho
00:14:29
And there's already been short movies made with Sora and so it's not out for the general public yet.

Host
00:14:37
How do you spell this?

Bob Cho
00:14:39
S O RA Okay, I'm definitely gonna look that up.

Host
00:14:43
That's crazy.

Bob Cho
00:14:44
Yeah, it's a whole shift.

Bob Cho
00:14:47
And now OpenAI's come out with a voice.

Bob Cho
00:14:51
So it'll take 15 seconds of your own voice and it'll analyze it and then you'll type in like a sentence or something like that and it'll perfectly emulate your own voice.

Host
00:15:07
Oh, man.

Bob Cho
00:15:08
Sounds exactly the same.

Host
00:15:10
Can send someone a voicemail through text.

Bob Cho
00:15:13
Through text.

Bob Cho
00:15:14
Yes, yes.

Bob Cho
00:15:17
So things are shifting in terms of that, that we would not have known before.

Bob Cho
00:15:22
And imagine what it's going to do to the future now, that's only when I said imagine.

Bob Cho
00:15:27
That's all we can do is imagine.

Bob Cho
00:15:29
We don't know what's going to happen, we don't know tomorrow what's going to happen, or even an hour from now, but we can imagine something that is going to shift.

Bob Cho
00:15:40
It may or may not happen.

Bob Cho
00:15:41
And that's a great thing about our imaginations.

Bob Cho
00:15:43
We can try to predict with all predictions that we have, and you probably heard this term is basically done on predictive coding.

Bob Cho
00:15:56
So basically what that means is that everything, all our decisions and everything we try to even imagine into the future, even like my, what I'm saying right now is based on past experiences and past knowledge.

Bob Cho
00:16:12
Everything.

Bob Cho
00:16:13
It's not based on current.

Bob Cho
00:16:15
It's based on something I read an hour ago, two days ago, a year ago, 20 years ago.

Bob Cho
00:16:23
But all that accumulation and everything I've studied and people I've been around and experienced and everything like that, that's what I'm making decisions, that's what I'm saying, even right at this moment, is all based on the past.

Bob Cho
00:16:40
And so trying to predict the future, we don't know.

Bob Cho
00:16:47
In chaos theory, things are chaotic.

Bob Cho
00:16:49
And you mentioned earlier about certainty versus uncertainty.

Bob Cho
00:16:53
It's always uncertainty.

Bob Cho
00:16:54
You can't be certain about anything.

Host
00:16:57
Yeah, and that's, and that's a big part of the podcast as well, is understanding the need for adaptation in this new world and resilience, you know, mental toughness and flexibility, you know, because.

Host
00:17:11
Yeah, because everything is shifting so quickly.

Host
00:17:13
And I don't, I, I truly don't think that people let themselves think enough about the consequences, you know, and the change that's coming because it is imaginative and we can only really imagine based on the past, as you're, as you're saying.

Host
00:17:26
So it's like the past has generally changed kind of slow, you know, slowish, if you will, you know, for our own.

Host
00:17:33
Compared to this, I would say, you know, could I slow.

Host
00:17:35
Compared to back in the past?

Host
00:17:37
No.

Host
00:17:37
We've progressed so fast.

Host
00:17:40
But compared to how, like what Moore's loss, you know, talks about how fast we're continually increasing the pace at which we're progressing, and people cannot predict, cannot predict the rate that we're going to progress at, and they cannot predict the rate that they're going to need to change at that.

Host
00:17:57
They're going to need to adapt and move into a new field of work.

Bob Cho
00:18:01
Correct.

Host
00:18:02
You know, learn something new, change their skills.

Host
00:18:05
Like, it's just, it's.

Host
00:18:07
It's coming.

Host
00:18:07
And so I think that this, you know, podcast ideally can serve as a place where people can understand how to kind of like shift and learn more and be more excited about life and be more curious and be more like a polymath.

Host
00:18:19
So there is some diversity there amongst their skills so that they're able to shift into new fields fairly seamlessly without too much life stress, you know?

Bob Cho
00:18:28
Correct.

Bob Cho
00:18:29
I can recall years ago when key punch operators were like the big thing and they died overnight, when people focused only on that one skill set, when they lost that, when that whole field just died out, they had nowhere else to go.

Bob Cho
00:18:51
And you're absolutely right.

Bob Cho
00:18:53
We need to have a diversity of experiences, knowledge, learning, skill sets and so forth.

Bob Cho
00:18:59
Yes, you can deep dive into one or two skills become in terms of master that, but it doesn't take long to become an expert in a skill set.

Bob Cho
00:19:13
So you could become an expert in a few months.

Bob Cho
00:19:17
It takes years to master something.

Bob Cho
00:19:20
You can become an expert, and in some cases, some people have done it even within a month.

Bob Cho
00:19:26
I say if you're deeply focused and you're only focusing on that one skill set, yes, you probably can do it within a month or two months to become an expert.

Bob Cho
00:19:35
But still, we can learn.

Bob Cho
00:19:37
And I'm constantly challenging my own beliefs.

Bob Cho
00:19:41
And a lot of people, especially like in my age or older or even some younger, it's hard for them to make changes to learn something new.

Bob Cho
00:19:51
Luckily for me, I've always embraced like learning new things and asking myself, is what I know now, is it based on fact?

Bob Cho
00:20:01
For the present, it may have worked for the past, is it based on for the present?

Bob Cho
00:20:06
And what do I have to learn now that will help to carry me into the future?

Bob Cho
00:20:12
And who do I have to talk to?

Bob Cho
00:20:14
Who do I have to surround myself with?

Bob Cho
00:20:16
A lot of my friends.

Bob Cho
00:20:17
A lot of my new friends are Gen Z.

Bob Cho
00:20:20
And yeah, and then I have a lot of millennials as well.

Bob Cho
00:20:25
And I, I got to know a lot of them because I do parkour.

Bob Cho
00:20:28
I've been doing it for a lot of years and, and so doing, doing that, that, that kind of crazy stuff.

Bob Cho
00:20:33
And yeah, in fact, a lot of the millennials that I was doing parkour with, once it got past 30, they stopped doing it because they said they, they just got too old to do it.

Bob Cho
00:20:41
And I'm going to be 73, and I'm going to be 73 in August, and, and I still feel like, like agile.

Bob Cho
00:20:49
Agile.

Bob Cho
00:20:49
Y younger person.

Bob Cho
00:20:51
Yeah, I understand that my body is much older than it used to be, but I say challenge yourself anyway.

Bob Cho
00:20:58
Challenge yourself.

Bob Cho
00:20:59
Now.

Bob Cho
00:21:00
You're not going to probably running up buildings and jumping off of them or vaulting over a wall or doing any of these other things, but still, you can still challenge yourself at any age.

Bob Cho
00:21:13
You can still grow at any age.

Bob Cho
00:21:15
The brain is always changing anyway, whether you like it or not.

Bob Cho
00:21:19
You, you can, you can have a change where it stops growing and you start losing what, what you know, or you can continue to grow and learn.

Bob Cho
00:21:30
I remember reading about this one guy, I think it was about three years ago, where he graduated with his PhD in physics at the age of 89.

Bob Cho
00:21:39
So he continued to grow.

Bob Cho
00:21:40
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:21:41
Geez.

Bob Cho
00:21:42
Yeah.

Host
00:21:43
See, that's.

Host
00:21:43
And that's the kind of stories I love.

Host
00:21:45
Even like all the personal development guys that are out there doing their talks and learning and growing and reading and making new connections and going to these conferences at 89, you know, Brian Tracy and Bob Proctor and, you know, it's just crazy to see that amount of drive at such a older age to continue to take in more and more information and feel like they're pretty, pretty sharp still.

Host
00:22:07
It's just not the common paradigm that people want you to believe or that we see too often we see it in, like, the, the blue zones or centenarians.

Host
00:22:16
You know, it's like, oh, they're still able to maintain some sort of cognizance, but I think that there's, there's a lot of people out there doing it and there's a certain way that they're doing it.

Host
00:22:24
I'm not sure exactly what you're doing, but you're doing it.

Bob Cho
00:22:27
Yeah, I think we should continue throughout our life.

Bob Cho
00:22:31
And if you're younger, especially like in your 20s, don't just try to settle on, like, one career path.

Bob Cho
00:22:39
Get out there and experience different things, learn and grow, because that accumulation right there is going to help you into your 30s and 40s and beyond.

Bob Cho
00:22:52
You're going to be able to see things much differently.

Bob Cho
00:22:56
But if you get stuck only in one area, one way of thinking, and your parents may have done that, like one career the whole life, you may have seen your grandparents like that as well.

Bob Cho
00:23:08
Well, things are much different in today's world anyway.

Bob Cho
00:23:12
You're not going to have, like, one career and expect this to be the path.

Bob Cho
00:23:17
Those days are long gone.

Host
00:23:19
Yeah, see?

Host
00:23:20
So I would.

Host
00:23:21
I would love to talk about that because the identity shifts that go along with that are really hard to deal with, you know, so someone feeling a will.

Host
00:23:30
I've put two or three years into college and doing this career, and so I need to stick with it because this is what I said.

Host
00:23:37
So it's like my reputation resides on it.

Host
00:23:40
Or it's because what someone wants for me, it's because it's a good job.

Host
00:23:44
And they're really unwilling to shift into a new career because of that.

Host
00:23:49
That fear of judgment or who am I outside of this thing that I've been working so hard on?

Host
00:23:55
Like, if I've been working hard to be a doctor and I just.

Host
00:23:57
I don't want to be a doctor anymore, it's like, well, all I've ever done is go to medical school.

Host
00:24:01
I've spent my life going to medical school.

Host
00:24:03
I spent my life trying to be a doctor.

Host
00:24:04
This is who I am.

Host
00:24:06
If I want to shift out of being a doctor, who am I now?

Bob Cho
00:24:11
A lot of people get caught up, whether it's the families or otherwise, that this is a career you should be doing.

Bob Cho
00:24:21
And a couple of friends of mine.

Bob Cho
00:24:24
So about, oh, about 15 years ago, one of my female friends, when she was 42, at the time, she was a psychiatrist.

Bob Cho
00:24:34
And she told me that she just doesn't feel it.

Bob Cho
00:24:41
This is not what she wants to do.

Bob Cho
00:24:44
And I asked her, what was it that you want to do?

Bob Cho
00:24:47
And she says, I want to be an actress.

Bob Cho
00:24:50
That's my thing.

Bob Cho
00:24:51
That's what I feel resonates with me.

Bob Cho
00:24:54
So at 42, she decided to give up her practice as a psychiatrist.

Bob Cho
00:25:01
After all the schooling, going through college and medical school and also advanced schools in terms of psychiatry, she gave it all up to become an actress.

Bob Cho
00:25:13
Back in the 90s, another friend of mine, his name is Barry and he was a lawyer up in San Francisco, a very top lawyer.

Bob Cho
00:25:21
He came from a family of attorneys, siblings, parents, grandparents.

Bob Cho
00:25:26
And that was like, what their family did.

Bob Cho
00:25:28
So he's Jewish, and that was their thing.

Bob Cho
00:25:34
And at the age of 50, he came to me and said that.

Bob Cho
00:25:39
The same thing as a psychiatrist.

Bob Cho
00:25:41
It just wasn't what resonated with him.

Bob Cho
00:25:44
And we sat down and talked, and I asked him if you could think about something in your past that when you think about it, it brings you joy.

Bob Cho
00:25:55
And he started thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking.

Bob Cho
00:25:58
And all of a sudden, I saw his face just glow.

Bob Cho
00:26:00
He says, you know, Bob, back when I was in college, I got to be the DJ of our college radio station.

Bob Cho
00:26:06
And as he talked about it, his body language shifted big time.

Bob Cho
00:26:10
And he just had that aha moment.

Bob Cho
00:26:15
Six months later, he called me and he says, bob, guess what?

Bob Cho
00:26:18
And I said, what?

Bob Cho
00:26:19
He says, I'm now interning at a local radio station here.

Bob Cho
00:26:24
And.

Bob Cho
00:26:26
And then a year later, he.

Bob Cho
00:26:27
He got out.

Bob Cho
00:26:30
I think he was still doing law part time, but he was doing that full time as a.

Bob Cho
00:26:36
As a radio dj.

Bob Cho
00:26:38
And when I saw him, he completely changed.

Bob Cho
00:26:43
He got rid of his big home and all kind of stuff that was obvious because you don't make much money as a DJ compared to what he was.

Bob Cho
00:26:49
His $2 million a year, what he was doing as an attorney.

Host
00:26:52
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:26:53
Yet.

Bob Cho
00:26:54
Yet prior to that, he was walking like, he looked much older than his age.

Bob Cho
00:27:03
Afterwards, he was walking with a.

Bob Cho
00:27:05
He looked 20 years younger.

Bob Cho
00:27:07
He was happy and he.

Bob Cho
00:27:10
And he was doing something that he felt like play.

Host
00:27:14
Yeah, see, that's so crazy to me.

Host
00:27:16
Like, that is what I'm constantly harping on people is like, I'll talk to someone.

Host
00:27:21
They're like.

Host
00:27:22
I'm like, whoa, what do you.

Host
00:27:23
What do you do outside of work?

Host
00:27:24
A co worker or whatever.

Host
00:27:25
And really telling me.

Host
00:27:27
And we're trying to figure out.

Host
00:27:28
I'm trying to figure out what it is that they're really interested in.

Host
00:27:31
What are they trying to do?

Host
00:27:32
What is their mission in life?

Host
00:27:33
What are they trying to accomplish?

Host
00:27:35
And it's like, oh, I'm gonna be an accountant or I'm gonna be a electrician.

Host
00:27:39
And it's like that answer doesn't matter at all.

Host
00:27:43
And there's no judgment towards it.

Host
00:27:45
Unless, like, you don't actually want to do that, and you're just doing it because it's a good job.

Host
00:27:49
You know what I mean?

Host
00:27:50
So someone's like, oh, I love.

Host
00:27:51
You know, I love sending electricity and I love I always put together parts and my dad's electrician and I love, like, that's a great story, then that's fine, then do that.

Host
00:27:58
If you love numbers, you love really doing the accounting stuff, then, then do that.

Host
00:28:02
But if it's just because it's a good job, it's like, it hurts my heart.

Bob Cho
00:28:06
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Cho
00:28:07
And eventually people will go into the 40s and 50s and they have a, what's called a midlife crisis.

Bob Cho
00:28:16
And a midlife crisis.

Bob Cho
00:28:18
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:28:18
You may have guys going, you know, like getting their sports car and doing all that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:28:24
The truth is, the midlife crisis is when people discover after all the years of doing a certain career that it really wasn't for them.

Bob Cho
00:28:36
They get to thinking, is this really what life is all about?

Bob Cho
00:28:41
Kind of mindset.

Bob Cho
00:28:43
And I tell people, don't wait for that.

Bob Cho
00:28:46
You need to go and have the different experience.

Bob Cho
00:28:48
Find what resonates with you early in life, gain a lot of experiences.

Bob Cho
00:28:53
Otherwise you're going to be the person who retires at the end of life.

Bob Cho
00:28:57
And then they start doing the stuff, maybe what they really wanted to do or whatever like that, but then it's too late.

Bob Cho
00:29:03
You know, they, they can't do all the kind of experiences early on.

Bob Cho
00:29:08
And I said do it early.

Bob Cho
00:29:09
By time you, you go through life, you'll be doing what you really, really want to do or what resonates with you.

Bob Cho
00:29:18
Don't get caught up about what people say that you should be doing.

Bob Cho
00:29:22
Now, having said that, you're going to have certain skill sets where you, there's stuff that you're good at and utilize that so other people may recognize what you're good at and you may not recognize that and you may poo poo it.

Bob Cho
00:29:34
So, so to recognize that and embrace what you're good at, people have told me, like, Bob, you're good at doing this and this and this in terms of maybe motivation, everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:29:47
Because they see me all the time, everywhere, speaking and helping people out, which I didn't do before.

Bob Cho
00:29:52
I love helping people.

Bob Cho
00:29:53
That's my foundation.

Bob Cho
00:29:55
I think that's one of the reasons I went into the Marine Corps as a protector, the lapd, and even teaching women's self defense, doing bodyguard work and, and all kinds of different things throughout my life.

Bob Cho
00:30:06
I like protecting like that, but I realized that I can't protect people.

Bob Cho
00:30:11
Even Superman can't protect every single person.

Bob Cho
00:30:14
But I can teach.

Bob Cho
00:30:15
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:30:15
And, and so that's what resonates with me.

Bob Cho
00:30:18
So even all the learning I'm doing Even in psychology and everything, it's not to become a psychologist or have a PhD, all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:30:27
No, it's.

Bob Cho
00:30:28
It's wanting to learn so I can take what I learn.

Bob Cho
00:30:31
And yeah, I think it helps me, but also giving to others as well so they can make a difference for themselves.

Host
00:30:39
Same, same, honestly.

Host
00:30:41
And so I feel like this is a good spot that kind of leads us back to you talking about people having the importance of studying a diverse amount of things and really getting those experiences earlier in life so they can kind of see what they're good at, not getting too stuck in something that may not be for them.

Host
00:30:57
And so very clearly seems to be something that you've understood early on.

Host
00:31:01
And so that kind of leads us back to our conversation at the beginning is like, you know, how did you learn this early on?

Host
00:31:06
Why did you experiment with so many different things?

Host
00:31:09
And how did you gain that sort of insight at such an early time?

Bob Cho
00:31:14
Curiosity.

Host
00:31:16
You're just naturally curious.

Bob Cho
00:31:18
Being curious, like crazy.

Bob Cho
00:31:21
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:31:22
I always like when I see stuff.

Bob Cho
00:31:26
I wanted to learn different things, and I was curious about it.

Bob Cho
00:31:31
Whether it was experimenting with the chemistry set, building a rocket in terms of those things, or wanting to understand people, wanting to understand.

Bob Cho
00:31:44
Hypnosis.

Bob Cho
00:31:44
One of my first hypnosis books was in junior high, which I still have, and I have, like, so many more since then.

Bob Cho
00:31:51
I just wanted to learn and study, and I have.

Bob Cho
00:31:56
Gosh, I think I'm approaching, like 13,000 physical books.

Bob Cho
00:31:59
So I read a lot.

Bob Cho
00:32:00
Insane.

Bob Cho
00:32:01
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:32:02
I get books every week.

Bob Cho
00:32:05
Sometimes I'll pick up, like, in one day, 10 books.

Bob Cho
00:32:10
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:32:11
And I go through books, and a lot of stuff is in other books.

Bob Cho
00:32:13
I can skim through all that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:32:16
And I have even PDF copies of probably around 300,000 PDF copies of books, too.

Bob Cho
00:32:25
But I like physical books.

Bob Cho
00:32:26
That's.

Bob Cho
00:32:26
That's.

Bob Cho
00:32:27
That's like my thing.

Bob Cho
00:32:28
I like learning and I like knowing.

Bob Cho
00:32:32
And it seems like there's not enough time.

Bob Cho
00:32:36
And I look at, like, even my books and I tell myself that, oh, my goodness, I only know, like, this much.

Bob Cho
00:32:45
This much.

Bob Cho
00:32:45
And I have all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:32:48
I said, boy, I'm like an ant in terms of that.

Bob Cho
00:32:51
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:32:52
So there's just not enough time to learn everything.

Bob Cho
00:32:56
So I have to distill a lot of stuff and get focused as well and then say no to a lot of the other things that are worthless to me.

Bob Cho
00:33:07
So I have to say yes to the growth part and the learning part and everything and then specify what is I want to learn.

Bob Cho
00:33:14
Here and there and everything.

Bob Cho
00:33:16
So it's a continuing process.

Host
00:33:19
So that leads me to another question real quick because I saw on your resume that you had like an EEG certificate, right?

Bob Cho
00:33:25
Correct.

Host
00:33:26
You studied the eeg?

Bob Cho
00:33:27
Yeah, I studied at the EEG Institute, which is like one of the premier EEG training, so from some of the pioneers in eeg.

Host
00:33:34
So this idea of like being more tapped into like theta waves for a person who is like either ADHD or just like more of the daydreamy curiosity type person that place of hypnosis will take you to.

Host
00:33:50
And so I feel like when I hear people talk about like being super curious, super daydreamy vision, I imagine their brain being a little bit further down there, you know, and then that would in my mind explain the stuttering at least a little bit as well, where it's like there is some sort of disconnect between this beta brainwave of being engaged and critical and using the analytical mind.

Host
00:34:12
But as you learned to develop that, you had a.

Host
00:34:14
You ended up having a very, very well integrated brain.

Host
00:34:18
So I'm.

Host
00:34:18
I'm very interested in having an integrated brain because mine was almost backwards where like I am super just like rational, analytical and.

Host
00:34:26
And I had to kind of develop my true curiosity a little bit later in life.

Host
00:34:30
So I would, I would say it wasn't till I was like 25 that I was really like, let.

Host
00:34:35
Allowing myself to experiment, as you say, you know, allowing myself to look into the things that gave me joy that I was interested in and building that sense of curiosity, you know.

Host
00:34:45
So I'm curious if you have any thoughts about like your specific brain and the idea, the idea of like even these Renaissance thinkers having these real integrated brains is part of what my book is about.

Host
00:34:57
So that's kind of what I'm bringing it up.

Host
00:34:59
It's like the idea of having a really well balanced brain between rational and imaginative, between intellect and imagination.

Bob Cho
00:35:07
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:35:07
So our brains, and I would even go to go so far to say our bodies are integrated if we understand it.

Bob Cho
00:35:18
So understand like we talked early on, the feelings with our own body and also the biological processes and so forth.

Bob Cho
00:35:28
And I think that takes both curiosity but also rational thinking.

Bob Cho
00:35:35
Both are very important and in being curious and wanting to know.

Bob Cho
00:35:42
And even like Guck, you mentioned the imagination part imagining like what's happening.

Bob Cho
00:35:52
I think it's important to, to be able to use the logical side and being able to break down the components in terms of understanding as well.

Bob Cho
00:36:01
You know, how does this work?

Bob Cho
00:36:02
How does this work?

Bob Cho
00:36:03
How does this work?

Bob Cho
00:36:04
So with me starting with, with being curious, then, then I'll go to logical.

Bob Cho
00:36:10
So I wanted to know.

Bob Cho
00:36:13
Like for example, I studied in a weekend.

Bob Cho
00:36:15
I wanted to look at aikido.

Bob Cho
00:36:18
So aikido is a Japanese martial arts.

Bob Cho
00:36:22
And it's been around for a little bit.

Bob Cho
00:36:25
Not like some of the ancient arts like jiu jitsu and things like that, but aikido.

Bob Cho
00:36:31
I looked at it by starting off with curiosity.

Bob Cho
00:36:34
How does aikido really work?

Bob Cho
00:36:36
Then I had to go to a lodge.

Bob Cho
00:36:37
I broke it apart in terms of its own parts.

Bob Cho
00:36:41
And there's three wheels that are key.

Bob Cho
00:36:45
So you have a small will.

Bob Cho
00:36:46
So like do doing a twisting movement like this in order for a person.

Bob Cho
00:36:50
So like that.

Bob Cho
00:36:52
There's also a larger wheel like this.

Bob Cho
00:36:55
So when the person's coming at you, you can go and you turn like this and they'll flip over.

Bob Cho
00:37:01
Then there's a wheel like this, like turning this kind of will, so you can use that and then spin a person around.

Bob Cho
00:37:07
So understanding those three wheels, you understand aikido, period.

Bob Cho
00:37:12
So you just work within those three wheels.

Bob Cho
00:37:14
And the same thing with a lot of other stuff like in Brazilian jiu jitsu and judo and some others, you understand joint movements.

Bob Cho
00:37:22
So like right here you have this joint here.

Bob Cho
00:37:26
So all you have to do is put like here and push down here.

Bob Cho
00:37:31
You're going to be able to go.

Bob Cho
00:37:32
So you focus here at every angle here, here, like that, so you can take control of that.

Bob Cho
00:37:39
And so I look at in terms of logical, how the body systems work and everything like that, put together how physics works.

Bob Cho
00:37:47
And so that's a logical slide.

Bob Cho
00:37:49
But I had to be curious.

Bob Cho
00:37:50
I had to start off with curiosity.

Bob Cho
00:37:51
How does this work?

Bob Cho
00:37:52
I had to ask a lot of questions.

Bob Cho
00:37:54
And questions are very important for curiosity.

Bob Cho
00:37:57
So anything you want to know, start with questions and then you can go deeper into that and understanding that maybe you have to understand, read a lot of other things.

Bob Cho
00:38:09
I studied human physiology.

Bob Cho
00:38:11
I studied both classical physics, which we call Newtonian physics, and gravitational physics and quantum physics and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:38:20
So just being curious in all those different areas just led me in terms of breaking down even martial arts techniques.

Host
00:38:28
And so then you did the Marines, then you did lapd.

Host
00:38:31
And then how did you kind of move into this coaching, public speaking role?

Bob Cho
00:38:37
Yeah, I think I've always done something like that in terms of coaching.

Bob Cho
00:38:42
I like helping people and like teaching and all that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:38:45
Whether it was teaching women self defense or even like when I had my businesses, I had an advertising, marketing firm back in the 90s and I had a lot of employees and I, to me they were like there that I can teach them, I can coach them and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:39:01
I didn't move into a professional coach, but I could still coach people and help them to develop and become their best.

Bob Cho
00:39:10
And I took a lot of that stuff.

Bob Cho
00:39:12
And then after I sold my business, I went back to school, got my master's in psychology and also studied hypnosis at Hypnosis Motivation Institute which is a year long school in Tarzana and then did Bobby Spade in Vegas and some other places.

Bob Cho
00:39:28
And then I met a guy named Thomas Leonard.

Bob Cho
00:39:32
So Thomas Leonard, he was a founder of Coach U and then also icf, International Coach Federation.

Bob Cho
00:39:41
He passed away.

Bob Cho
00:39:42
Gosh, it's been, has it been almost 20 years or something like that?

Bob Cho
00:39:45
So.

Bob Cho
00:39:46
But he passed away of a massive heart attack.

Bob Cho
00:39:49
Now here's an interesting guy.

Bob Cho
00:39:52
He came from the world of finance.

Bob Cho
00:39:55
He was a certified financial planner that went into the coaching arena.

Bob Cho
00:40:00
He developed his own techniques and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:40:03
But he was running ICF which is like the foundational certification for coaches across the world.

Bob Cho
00:40:11
He started ICF and Coach U, which was like the very first official coaching organization while living in an rv and he traveled in his RV and did that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:40:23
And it wasn't until he, he moved to Arizona with his partner and they bought a condo, he was ready to settle down.

Bob Cho
00:40:30
He ended up dying of a massive heart attack and yeah, but still he didn't allow living in RV to help for him to start that major organization.

Host
00:40:41
And that's crazy.

Bob Cho
00:40:42
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:40:43
So we could be wherever we're at and we think, well, we may not have this and that, but if you have an idea and you're curious about, like want to make changes, go out there and, and, and test it out, see, see where it takes you.

Bob Cho
00:40:57
Listen to people, ask more questions and become curious and eventually you can have a seed that boom.

Bob Cho
00:41:05
Something that's going to change the world again.

Bob Cho
00:41:08
We talked earlier about uncertainty.

Bob Cho
00:41:10
Well, we don't know what's going to be happening in the future, but if you have an idea and you put it out there, that idea may change, may have a ripple effect.

Bob Cho
00:41:22
Like what Thomas did with International Coach Federation.

Bob Cho
00:41:26
People are going through that and there's a lot of other coaching organizations that teach people how to get certified.

Bob Cho
00:41:33
They go, they teach year long, but they started with this.

Bob Cho
00:41:36
Just like ChatGPT has created a lot of different businesses.

Bob Cho
00:41:40
So your idea may be the seed that launches a lot of other Ideas and you never know.

Host
00:41:46
So let me ask you then, when you were doing your master's degree and doing a year long hypnosis, which is definitely not easy, what was the idea you had at the time?

Host
00:41:57
Like, I know that you're curious, I know part of it is the curiosity, but I feel like the logical part had to also have something in mind with what you wanted to do with it.

Host
00:42:04
Did you plan on being Bobby Spade?

Host
00:42:07
Was that like the new career choice you wanted to take?

Host
00:42:09
Or what was, what was no motivation there?

Bob Cho
00:42:12
Yeah, so I think Bobby Spade was more of an accident.

Bob Cho
00:42:17
It was like, okay, I didn't plan on that.

Bob Cho
00:42:20
My, my, my goal was to go out there and teach what I've learned.

Bob Cho
00:42:24
Being on stage was a natural offshoot of that.

Bob Cho
00:42:29
And I came across a friend, one of my friends, who is a hypnotist, and he said, well, have you thought about doing stage hypnosis?

Bob Cho
00:42:37
I said, no, I hadn't thought about doing stage hypnosis.

Bob Cho
00:42:40
And he says it's a great tool to get, to draw people in for you to teach people about hypnosis, but in a really fun way where you get to bring people up on stage.

Bob Cho
00:42:51
So I said, okay, let me give that a go.

Bob Cho
00:42:54
And that's how Bobby Spade was born.

Bob Cho
00:42:56
So it wasn't something I thought about, but it was something that all of a sudden happened from somebody else's input of an idea.

Host
00:43:04
I have one question then.

Host
00:43:06
As a former hypnotist, I know that there's a process behind choosing people in the audience as volunteers that are more suggestible.

Host
00:43:15
Will you enlighten us real quick on that?

Bob Cho
00:43:18
Sure, yeah.

Bob Cho
00:43:20
So as a stage hypnotist, we do certain tests and everything like that to make sure that like certain audience members, we want to see how people respond.

Bob Cho
00:43:30
So we do what's called suggestibility tests, number one.

Bob Cho
00:43:34
Number two, and what a lot of people don't know is that as a stage hypnotist, I had somebody out there because I couldn't scan everybody.

Bob Cho
00:43:43
So they would go and they would look at people in terms of how they respond and they would point them out.

Bob Cho
00:43:48
So those are people I would invite onto stage.

Bob Cho
00:43:51
And usually I would have more women and a few guys, but more women only because it's weird.

Bob Cho
00:43:58
But a lot of guys will tend to follow the women in terms of like what they do.

Bob Cho
00:44:03
And I know that when people come up on stage, they want to be there because maybe they had this subconscious thing of wanting to perform form in some way or another.

Bob Cho
00:44:16
And I knew that so once I invited those people on stage, I would do more tests and everything like that to make sure that they're really suggestible enough to keep them there.

Bob Cho
00:44:28
So I would have plenty of people.

Bob Cho
00:44:30
Then I would send everybody else back down that.

Bob Cho
00:44:33
Then I would pick those few people and then continue that.

Bob Cho
00:44:36
And I would always start with women.

Bob Cho
00:44:39
And people would look at that, and they would follow.

Bob Cho
00:44:42
So you're studying sociology, including in social psychology.

Bob Cho
00:44:47
So people would look at other people in terms of what to do.

Bob Cho
00:44:50
So they would follow that.

Bob Cho
00:44:51
So I would find the most suggestible person, and they would follow that along.

Bob Cho
00:44:56
And we see this in other areas as well.

Bob Cho
00:44:59
For example, in a lot of churches, like evangelical churches and things like that, you see people.

Bob Cho
00:45:06
The same kind of thing.

Bob Cho
00:45:07
The preacher would bring people up and they would do certain things we do in hypnosis.

Bob Cho
00:45:14
We call a lot of what they do a shock induction.

Bob Cho
00:45:17
So we do.

Bob Cho
00:45:18
Like an example is in a church, they would put the hand down like this right here.

Bob Cho
00:45:26
But this is after they watch somebody else to do it.

Bob Cho
00:45:29
Put the hand here, and you got the power of Christ on, you know, like this.

Bob Cho
00:45:35
And a person would stiffen up.

Bob Cho
00:45:37
So that's.

Bob Cho
00:45:38
That's a shock induction.

Bob Cho
00:45:40
I did the same thing.

Bob Cho
00:45:41
I would do a shock induction, and a person would stiffen up and do that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:45:46
And then I would do, like, hypnotic demonstrations and put a person across a chair and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:45:53
But they already had in their mind that this was going to happen because they may have seen it in the past.

Bob Cho
00:45:58
People follow what other people do.

Bob Cho
00:46:00
This is an inside secret that there's a lot.

Bob Cho
00:46:03
We do it subconsciously all the time, throughout the day.

Bob Cho
00:46:08
We watch other people and then we take cues from.

Bob Cho
00:46:12
From those other people in terms of what to do and.

Bob Cho
00:46:16
Or just don't do anything.

Bob Cho
00:46:18
If we don't find cues, for example, in a crowd, we watch other people, and other people are watching other people, and we see some bad thing happened.

Bob Cho
00:46:27
But in a crowd, people don't take action because they're looking around and they don't want.

Bob Cho
00:46:32
They don't want to be the one to stand out.

Bob Cho
00:46:34
Until somebody stands out and takes action.

Bob Cho
00:46:36
That's a cue.

Bob Cho
00:46:37
Then other people will come in and take action.

Bob Cho
00:46:39
Same thing in stage hypnosis.

Bob Cho
00:46:40
Same thing in churches.

Bob Cho
00:46:42
Same thing throughout life.

Bob Cho
00:46:44
We look for cues from other people.

Bob Cho
00:46:46
And that's one of the secrets that I understood as a stage hypnotist.

Bob Cho
00:46:50
And I think we need to understand it in terms of life as well.

Bob Cho
00:46:53
We take cues from others, but you could be the one getting out there and setting the cue.

Host
00:46:59
Exactly, exactly.

Host
00:47:00
And that's a big part of my studies as well.

Host
00:47:01
Sociology and having what I'm calling my book the Self Regulated Society.

Host
00:47:07
Society of coaches, managers, teachers, leaders that are able to set that example, are able to give those proper cues in many different regards.

Host
00:47:16
Like how do you respond when someone argues with you?

Host
00:47:19
How do you respond when you're disrespected?

Host
00:47:20
How do you respond when things aren't going your way?

Host
00:47:23
Even my kid being 14 in freshman high school, it's like teacher gets frustrated and they lash out.

Host
00:47:28
Teacher gets overwhelmed and they do this.

Host
00:47:31
But it's like those are not the proper things that they should be learning.

Host
00:47:33
And the teacher doesn't think about that as a part of the learning.

Host
00:47:36
It's like, well, I'm a math teacher and I'm teaching my kid math.

Host
00:47:39
And say, well, you're also teaching your kid how to handle frustration.

Host
00:47:41
You're teaching your kid how to, how to have respectful communications.

Host
00:47:45
You're teaching your kid all these different things as a teacher as well, Correct?

Bob Cho
00:47:49
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:47:49
And school is an interesting thing, especially regarding teachers and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:47:55
And we as a society, and we see this in business and so forth, called the Pygmalion effect.

Bob Cho
00:48:01
You probably heard about that.

Host
00:48:03
I've heard of it.

Host
00:48:04
I can't remember what it is right now, I'll be honest, but I.

Host
00:48:06
Definitely sounds familiar.

Bob Cho
00:48:08
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:48:08
So in a Pygmalion effect, and there's been movies, I think it was My Fair lady starting, Audrey Hepburn.

Bob Cho
00:48:17
So basically what it is, is expectations.

Bob Cho
00:48:22
So what we as a person believes about another person, we will subconsciously look at this person a certain way, whether they're a person that we see as a genius or we see them as less than we will act, we will act towards that.

Bob Cho
00:48:42
And teachers do this on a subconscious basis if they don't understand this effect that they would have on a person.

Bob Cho
00:48:48
So there was a study, the Pygmalion, that was done back in the late 60s.

Bob Cho
00:48:54
And the researchers looked at teachers and the teacher.

Bob Cho
00:48:58
So like a teacher was told that this group of kids are like high level geniuses.

Bob Cho
00:49:03
This group of kids, they're just not that good.

Bob Cho
00:49:08
So that what the teachers were told, the expectations, and at the end of the semester, these high level kids, they got much better and these other ones went lower.

Bob Cho
00:49:18
And it turns out that it was all made up, what the teachers were told and what they expected.

Bob Cho
00:49:24
Basically they were part of the study.

Bob Cho
00:49:27
So what we expect of others, including that teacher we will do things and lead them down a certain way.

Bob Cho
00:49:37
So we have to understand that about we expecting on our own selves, but also of others, whether we're a coach or teacher or anything like that.

Bob Cho
00:49:47
We have to expect higher of every single person because we will take those kind of actions towards that.

Host
00:49:55
Yeah.

Host
00:49:56
That even brings in the labeling theory, which is what we call it in sociology, you know, is like where.

Host
00:50:01
Yeah.

Host
00:50:01
We're creating labels for these people that are, that are just not serving them in any sort of way.

Host
00:50:07
You know, just like your label of, you know, moron.

Host
00:50:10
I hate to even say, yep, yeah, it's so silly, but yeah, it's like.

Host
00:50:15
And, and that there's lots of different things that go along with that.

Host
00:50:18
There's lots of little micro actions, you know, how much attention that kid is getting, you know, the sort of subconscious facial expressions that they're perceiving from, you know, that teacher is a scowl or is it a smile and things like that are all affecting that kid and that kid's development.

Host
00:50:34
And I just think that teachers necessarily think about it like that.

Host
00:50:37
And so they do try to find these labels and then, and then it becomes hard for a kid.

Host
00:50:41
Imagine you're a kid who, you know, has not generally performed well, but you would like to change your stars, you'd like to turn things around.

Host
00:50:47
But now your teacher has always been treating you like this kid who's lesser than.

Host
00:50:51
That's a hard thing to break out of.

Bob Cho
00:50:52
Yeah.

Host
00:50:53
As well as the label.

Bob Cho
00:50:54
Yep.

Bob Cho
00:50:54
I, I can.

Bob Cho
00:50:56
And, and by the way, the term, because of my IQ, my very first IQ test was 70 and, and back then they didn't look at the outside circumstances that actually led to it, the stresses and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:51:09
And well, I didn't understand until later on and wasn't until I was, I believe, 34 years old, I retook the IQ test and I scored a 156.

Bob Cho
00:51:20
So.

Bob Cho
00:51:21
So I went from, from being that moron to, to a genius level and eventually I was a member of Menza, but it wasn't my thing.

Bob Cho
00:51:32
So.

Bob Cho
00:51:33
Geez.

Host
00:51:34
Yeah, that's, that's crazy.

Host
00:51:35
So you've been working with clients most of this time, you said.

Host
00:51:40
And so I guess kind of a hard question, kind of a big question.

Host
00:51:43
But obviously we deal with resistance in clients.

Host
00:51:45
You know, an op, we have, we have certain statements that help us get through resistance and things.

Host
00:51:50
I'm just kind of curious on a general level, what have been some of the things that you've learned over the time that have Allowed you to overcome resistance with any sort of clients that you've worked with, people that are struggling to accomplish change.

Bob Cho
00:52:02
Yeah, I think early on I would use a lot of data and stuff like that.

Bob Cho
00:52:09
And it turns out that it didn't work.

Bob Cho
00:52:13
It didn't resonate with them.

Bob Cho
00:52:14
So I shifted back and I started rereading Milton Erickson and some of the stuff that he did.

Bob Cho
00:52:21
I have a whole shelf full of Milton Erickson, folks.

Bob Cho
00:52:24
Milton Erickson was very famous wizard of the West.

Bob Cho
00:52:27
Yes.

Bob Cho
00:52:27
So I started using metaphors and stories and everything to get into the person's subconscious mind.

Bob Cho
00:52:35
That helped to influence them to break through the resistance.

Bob Cho
00:52:39
And so once I realized that we as humans, data doesn't resonate with us, but the narrative does.

Host
00:52:46
By data you mean like what to eat, how to work out, how to.

Bob Cho
00:52:50
Work out, or according to the percentage of this and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
00:52:58
Yeah, people don't resonate with that because it doesn't go into the brain.

Bob Cho
00:53:05
Now, having said that, if a person is a very.

Bob Cho
00:53:09
Well, if they're very intellectual and very logical, that tends to work with a lot of those people.

Bob Cho
00:53:17
But for the most part, stories work amazingly well.

Bob Cho
00:53:20
So stories that relate to the person, that's reason I tell a lot of the people that go into coaching and otherwise have a number of different stories, but you want to have something that relates to that person that you're working with.

Bob Cho
00:53:36
So now they go into that.

Bob Cho
00:53:38
They have an understanding of where they need to shift.

Bob Cho
00:53:41
It gets into them on emotional basis versus trying to tell them what they should or shouldn't do.

Bob Cho
00:53:47
That doesn't work.

Bob Cho
00:53:48
It doesn't work at all.

Bob Cho
00:53:49
They'll shut down and they'll regress and they just won't listen.

Bob Cho
00:53:54
You need to open them up.

Bob Cho
00:53:55
And I found that using stories and metaphors and things like that always work because now you're breaking through that resistance.

Bob Cho
00:54:06
And I've done it with hypnosis clients.

Bob Cho
00:54:08
I learned a lot about resistance and with especially with people that have a fear of hypnosis.

Bob Cho
00:54:13
So I had to educate them and what it was beforehand instead of going right into the hypnosis where they were resistant to educating them on what it really was.

Bob Cho
00:54:24
And I use stories and things like that.

Bob Cho
00:54:27
Just tell them that hypnosis is not sleep.

Bob Cho
00:54:29
It's more if focused concentration.

Bob Cho
00:54:33
So.

Bob Cho
00:54:34
And so I would tell them that if you're truly intelligent and you're intelligent.

Bob Cho
00:54:38
Right, I said, and using focus, concentration, you'll be much better.

Bob Cho
00:54:43
So if you're an intelligent and focused person, you'll do really well because they're.

Host
00:54:47
Thinking if they're intelligent and focused, they're going to not be able to get hypnotized.

Host
00:54:51
And you're flipping it on them.

Host
00:54:52
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Cho
00:54:53
Yep.

Bob Cho
00:54:54
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:54:54
Yeah.

Host
00:54:54
That makes a lot of sense.

Host
00:54:55
Like that pre.

Host
00:54:56
Framing is incredibly important to that.

Bob Cho
00:55:00
Yeah.

Host
00:55:00
So I am curious about.

Host
00:55:02
You have this huge, huge resume.

Host
00:55:05
Right.

Host
00:55:05
And so when you're, let's say, trying to get a client or telling someone what you do, trying to really, like, sell your services, how do you give some sort of elevated pitch that is not egotistical and listing out a giant list of things?

Bob Cho
00:55:22
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:55:23
So it.

Bob Cho
00:55:25
So in terms of like me telling people like, what I do, I always start like with.

Bob Cho
00:55:31
With a question.

Bob Cho
00:55:32
And my resume is not on my elevator pitch at all.

Bob Cho
00:55:36
My focus is, is.

Bob Cho
00:55:38
Is on the person.

Bob Cho
00:55:40
And like any.

Bob Cho
00:55:42
Anything like you mentioned being curious.

Bob Cho
00:55:44
So I would ask a person a question that was.

Bob Cho
00:55:47
That's.

Bob Cho
00:55:48
And.

Bob Cho
00:55:49
And based on the answer on their question, question, as I get to know them, then I would bring in in terms of what I do that can help them or help somebody else that they know.

Bob Cho
00:56:00
So I would ask them, for example, have you or anybody else had like this issue?

Bob Cho
00:56:06
And I would listen beforehand, listen.

Bob Cho
00:56:09
And they've already told me their issue.

Bob Cho
00:56:12
I think it's in people that, for example, are mentalists.

Bob Cho
00:56:15
They're very observant.

Bob Cho
00:56:16
So observation.

Bob Cho
00:56:18
And if you, as a coach, you can help that person by feeding back to them what their issue is.

Bob Cho
00:56:26
So like, if you or somebody else that you know, has the issue, this issue, and they don't know that they told me that, or I will listen, look at their body language.

Bob Cho
00:56:37
Then what?

Bob Cho
00:56:38
I'll ask them that question.

Bob Cho
00:56:40
I said.

Bob Cho
00:56:42
Then I would say, okay, here's my card or just call me or I have my QR code.

Bob Cho
00:56:48
Then I would lead them in terms of that specific issue.

Bob Cho
00:56:51
But again, I have to listen for that in terms of that.

Host
00:56:55
That's a really good answer, actually.

Bob Cho
00:56:58
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:56:58
Because I think a lot of people don't listen.

Bob Cho
00:57:00
They don't look at the person.

Bob Cho
00:57:03
They have a standard thing that they say to everybody.

Bob Cho
00:57:06
And I don't think that really works very well.

Host
00:57:09
And yeah, I find myself, me and my wife call it mouth vomiting because it's not literal vomiting, but it's like you.

Host
00:57:20
You just open your mouth, some random stuff comes out.

Host
00:57:22
Because we do so many diverse things.

Host
00:57:24
My wife's got like three jobs and she studies a million different things and she's always educating herself like me.

Host
00:57:29
So when someone comes up to like, oh, what do you do?

Host
00:57:31
It's like, it's always a different answer, you know?

Host
00:57:34
And so I've been like, we've both been in this place of like, I just, I just like to feel better about how I respond to that question of like, what do I do?

Host
00:57:42
And when I have such a diverse.

Host
00:57:43
Without being like, well, I'm, you know, working on a book and I'm doing this podcast and I'm doing this and I'm getting my master's degree.

Host
00:57:50
And then all of a sudden it's like someone's kind of overwhelmed and it sounds like I'm kind of just bragging on myself.

Bob Cho
00:57:55
Yeah.

Bob Cho
00:57:57
Somebody asked me what I do, then I would basically go back to them and everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:58:03
I always like to try to make it about the other person because at the end, all this kind of stuff that I'm learning and all the certifications I've had and all the education I have.

Bob Cho
00:58:14
I actually have two PhDs, one in clinical psychology and one in neuropsych.

Bob Cho
00:58:18
Studied neuroscience, had postdoc in neuroscience, and currently studying physics, so working towards my PhD in Physics as well.

Bob Cho
00:58:26
Because I like to learn.

Bob Cho
00:58:27
I'm curious.

Bob Cho
00:58:28
But all this kind of learning and everything I've read and all that kind of stuff is meaningless to the person.

Bob Cho
00:58:34
All they care about is how I can help them.

Bob Cho
00:58:38
And the only way I can do that is to listen to them, have them give me their resume, their information, everything like that.

Bob Cho
00:58:47
I'm.

Bob Cho
00:58:47
If I can pull out what I've learned and all this kind of stuff that can help them, then that's what's important.

Bob Cho
00:58:54
It's not about me, it's about them, period.

Host
00:58:57
So would you say that you.

Host
00:59:00
I can say that I learned that the hard way.

Host
00:59:01
I can 100% attest to that.

Host
00:59:04
And I really resonate with what you were saying before with, you know, people not resonating with the data and it actually being, in my opinion, more detrimental to be what's called the advice monster and giving people adventure advice because ultimately not only do they not.

Host
00:59:19
Does it not resonate with them so they don't really do it, but then they end up beating themselves up about not being able to do it.

Host
00:59:24
They feel like, oh, well, he gave me, oh, he gave me this personalized meal plan that was just for me.

Host
00:59:29
He spent his time on it and I can't even follow it.

Host
00:59:32
I'm not self disciplined.

Host
00:59:34
I, I, I.

Host
00:59:35
All the, and then all these labels, all this identity stuff around the fact that they couldn't follow the meal plan that I gave them, when in reality, it's like I never really actually connected with them and helped them find a why for it.

Host
00:59:46
I didn't even need to give them a meal plan.

Host
00:59:47
I could have just talked to them, them about what's their reason for this.

Host
00:59:50
And when I started asking questions as opposed to giving advice, my whole business changed, turned around and everything, and I was getting a lot better results with everyone.

Host
01:00:00
So I guess my question is, did you have to learn that the hard way?

Host
01:00:02
Did you have to kind of give people the data and you're like, why is this not working?

Host
01:00:06
And deal with the frustration?

Host
01:00:07
And then is that kind of what potentially led you to doing more schooling and more certifications and stuff?

Host
01:00:12
Was understanding this stuff better?

Bob Cho
01:00:14
Yeah, well, learning.

Bob Cho
01:00:15
Learning about people, I think is very important and having, like, a lot.

Bob Cho
01:00:21
A lot of different knowledge.

Bob Cho
01:00:22
But I think a lot of people who are experts get caught up into the expert paradox where what we learn.

Bob Cho
01:00:29
And because it's commonplace around us, right?

Bob Cho
01:00:33
And because it's commonplace around us, we think it's.

Bob Cho
01:00:37
It's everywhere.

Bob Cho
01:00:38
So we would spurt out stuff that for us is like, okay, this is, like, down here for them.

Bob Cho
01:00:45
They have no idea.

Bob Cho
01:00:47
And, yeah, so I have to, like.

Bob Cho
01:00:49
I had to backtrack off that.

Bob Cho
01:00:51
I had to go back to a beginner's mindset, especially when I'm dealing with people and tell myself, they don't know what I know, I don't know what they know.

Bob Cho
01:01:00
I have to ask questions to understand where they're at.

Bob Cho
01:01:04
I can't just throw stuff out.

Bob Cho
01:01:06
It doesn't work.

Bob Cho
01:01:08
And I've told other experts the same way.

Bob Cho
01:01:10
I said, imagine yourself, you're now in the Amazon jungle, and you come across like a tribe of people there.

Bob Cho
01:01:22
They know what they know about what's going on there.

Bob Cho
01:01:26
You don't know what you don't know.

Bob Cho
01:01:28
You may even have a PhD, but you don't know what you don't know.

Bob Cho
01:01:32
And they try to show you all this kind of stuff, but it goes over your head because for them, it's commonplace for you.

Bob Cho
01:01:40
You're a beginner, you're an infant in a lot of cases in that environment.

Bob Cho
01:01:47
So they would have to teach you as if you were an infant again, at that basic level, for you to start learning of how to survive in that environment.

Bob Cho
01:01:57
Well, we as experts, we have to understand that.

Bob Cho
01:02:01
That the people we're dealing with, unless they have a lot of education in that arena, they don't know what you know.

Bob Cho
01:02:07
So we have to go back down here.

Bob Cho
01:02:09
And the only way to do that is be curious enough to discover that person and where they're at and what they're dealing with and what they know.

Bob Cho
01:02:20
And then you can take your knowledge piece by piece at that beginner's level and just help them just enough.

Bob Cho
01:02:28
Not this much, just enough that they can utilize that one piece of thing that will help them move forward.

Bob Cho
01:02:36
Then you can add on to that, but you can't throw everything at them.

Bob Cho
01:02:40
And so I had to learn that way myself, to back off with everything.

Bob Cho
01:02:45
I know people don't care about all this other stuff.

Bob Cho
01:02:48
All they care about is what I know that can help them specifically and.

Host
01:02:53
How much you care.

Host
01:02:54
So asking those questions, but also show care as well.

Host
01:02:57
Yeah, see, that.

Host
01:02:58
See, that's.

Host
01:02:59
That actually answers my other question that I was going to ask you too, because I'm curious about this place of feeling confident enough to work with people that you've not in fields in which you've not worked.

Host
01:03:10
So, like a CEO, you know, or a firefighter, first responder, you know, I know you've been in the military, but for me, it'd be like, military as well.

Host
01:03:17
These are people that I have no experience in their field, but yet I want to be, like a peak performance consultant.

Host
01:03:23
And so I have to be able to show up in those fields and feel confident and not deal with imposter syndrome.

Host
01:03:28
And so I actually kind of think that you can.

Host
01:03:31
You can chime in, but I feel like that may be a good method.

Host
01:03:34
It's like, okay, well, I don't need to try and prove myself.

Host
01:03:37
I need to try to get to know them and figure out a way that I can provide a solution to their problems or a service or be of value.

Bob Cho
01:03:46
Yeah, I think people get caught up in.

Bob Cho
01:03:48
And we see this in industry.

Bob Cho
01:03:50
Like, if you don't have experience in our field, we're not going to hire you.

Bob Cho
01:03:55
So you need experience, even though you may have experiences in other areas, but they want experience.

Bob Cho
01:04:01
Like, you've worked in this industry and doing this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:04:04
The problem with hiring those kind of people is they get caught up in the same mindset and they're unable to grow.

Bob Cho
01:04:14
We see, like, industries falling apart and the average major corporation dies after, what, 25 years because they have been unable to change.

Bob Cho
01:04:24
It takes somebody coming outside with a different outlook or a different way of looking in order to make shifts.

Bob Cho
01:04:31
We think about, like, the story of Henry Ford.

Bob Cho
01:04:35
And typically automobiles back in the day were made one car at a time.

Bob Cho
01:04:40
They were handmade One car at a time.

Bob Cho
01:04:42
And he looked outside of the automobile industry where they did the packing, the grocery like pack industries where they had the lines where people would just pack all the way down through and came out with the final product all boxed up and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:04:56
So he did the same thing with making automobiles.

Bob Cho
01:04:58
Prices dropped down.

Bob Cho
01:05:00
He shifted a whole industry.

Bob Cho
01:05:02
And in terms of like with you with peak performance, it's the same way you have experiences in other arenas.

Bob Cho
01:05:10
And even in peak performance, we're all humans.

Bob Cho
01:05:13
So those experience that knowledge and everything you have can help other in other arenas.

Bob Cho
01:05:21
In a Special forces arena, you don't have to have been in special forces, but you have knowledge that can help a special forces person in terms of their mindset and help them to grow.

Bob Cho
01:05:34
And those are usually people that are open and same thing working with CEOs.

Bob Cho
01:05:42
Again, they're still humans.

Bob Cho
01:05:44
So they may be locked into one way of thinking, but you bring in a different perspective that can help them to going higher.

Bob Cho
01:05:51
Because they may be stuck at a plateau based on what they've already experienced, their knowledge and in their industry.

Bob Cho
01:05:58
But you bring in something that's going to take them here, that's going to be the breakthrough which is very important.

Bob Cho
01:06:05
And then plus your own experiences in life and what you've gone through will count as well because you're unique and your uniqueness can help somebody to have major breakthroughs.

Bob Cho
01:06:18
So yeah, utilize that.

Bob Cho
01:06:20
And we have to realize those are kind of gifts that we possess as we continue to learn and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:06:26
And like with you, Todd, you, you have a lot of different perspectives and you're continuing that.

Bob Cho
01:06:32
And I don't have what you have.

Bob Cho
01:06:34
So you have a lot to teach, including an area of peak performance.

Host
01:06:39
I appreciate that.

Host
01:06:40
That's, that's very good insight.

Host
01:06:42
And, and I like the fact that you said they're all humans as well.

Host
01:06:46
So it's like that commonplace of, okay, I may not understand what it's like to be a special forces officer, but I do understand how to be human.

Host
01:06:52
Like I have studying the human experience and groups of humans and, and things like that with sociology and psychology and the mind.

Host
01:07:00
And so that is a.

Host
01:07:02
Yeah, a big part of everything that I'm studying.

Bob Cho
01:07:04
So.

Bob Cho
01:07:05
Yep, thank you for that.

Bob Cho
01:07:07
You're welcome.

Host
01:07:08
With us moving forward into not only needing to adapt faster than ever with the changing tides, we also have to be able to maintain some sort of autonomy with our thinking.

Host
01:07:21
Away from influence, away from addiction, away from dysregulation, away from distraction.

Host
01:07:25
And I'm Curious.

Host
01:07:26
What comes to mind amongst your many tools, you know, for people to be able to maintain a sense of autonomy and if they do have a mission, to be able to stay on track and to avoid all those things.

Bob Cho
01:07:38
So you mentioned our why, and I think that needs to be put on a forefront and put it on a board somewhere, like, have it written down right in front of you and go back to that, have that understanding.

Bob Cho
01:07:53
And everything that you do, everything that you learn, every experience you engage in should be connected to that, that why, that personal mission and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:08:05
And once you start gravitating away from that and you have people pulling you here and there and there and there, it's important to have another.

Bob Cho
01:08:15
So you have your why.

Bob Cho
01:08:16
But there's also a key word I don't think a lot of people use, and that's the word no.

Bob Cho
01:08:23
So you have to learn to say no.

Bob Cho
01:08:25
You say yes to the things that connect with your why.

Bob Cho
01:08:27
You say no to everything else.

Bob Cho
01:08:29
People will pull you, pull you, pull you, pull you in different directions.

Bob Cho
01:08:34
And you may have some cultural issues or certain guilt, like, well, you know, like so and so wants me to go do, do this and do this and do this.

Bob Cho
01:08:44
Well, you got to learn to say no.

Bob Cho
01:08:46
I can remember when I stopped drinking years ago when I was with lapd.

Bob Cho
01:08:51
I stopped and some of my friends went, I go out with them and they would offer me beer, and I said, nope, nope, I don't do that.

Bob Cho
01:09:01
And he said, oh, you teetotaler.

Bob Cho
01:09:02
And all that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:09:03
They were trying try to cut me down.

Bob Cho
01:09:06
I said, I stuck with my guns.

Bob Cho
01:09:08
I knew where I wanted to be.

Bob Cho
01:09:10
And that wasn't that.

Bob Cho
01:09:11
I did not need those kind of things, and I knew better ways of raising my own self up.

Bob Cho
01:09:18
So I stopped doing that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:09:20
I was not influenced.

Bob Cho
01:09:21
I said no.

Bob Cho
01:09:22
And to this day, I learn to say no more often.

Bob Cho
01:09:25
And I say yes to the things that connect me with where I want to move forward too.

Bob Cho
01:09:30
And yeah, so I don't go to parties and I don't do this and I don't all these other kind of things.

Bob Cho
01:09:36
So that's.

Bob Cho
01:09:37
That's what's helped me.

Host
01:09:38
So in terms of connecting to your why, you know, we've both done the NLP course, and last time we talked, I remember we even went through like, a little exercise of imagining what your life would be like and let's say three years from now.

Host
01:09:52
And imagine, you know, it's.

Host
01:09:54
It's ideal.

Host
01:09:55
Like, imagine you've built the business to where you want it to be.

Host
01:09:57
Imagine that you have the podcast guest that you want to have on that you, you're published in whatever journal you want to be published in or magazine or your book is on the shelf of what bookstores and, and to really like let yourself go there.

Host
01:10:10
And I think that when you say you have to have that vision, you have to have that.

Host
01:10:13
Why?

Host
01:10:14
I think that at best, maybe somebody might have it written down, but not necessarily have visualized and fully embodied.

Host
01:10:21
It can picture what it looks like and it feels very real to them, very visceral.

Host
01:10:26
And so yeah, I kind of wanted to talk about that process of visualization because I know that visualization is important to you to make that vision more real.

Host
01:10:34
How do you make that vision more real?

Bob Cho
01:10:36
Yeah, so what we want to be able to get to.

Bob Cho
01:10:40
So we want to make sure that we use all our senses.

Bob Cho
01:10:43
That's very important.

Bob Cho
01:10:45
Not just the visual part of it, but even with the visual, we want to be able to expand that out and we look at what's called an nlp, the sub modalities of each one of these.

Bob Cho
01:10:58
But I'm just going to make it a little bit clearer and not use words like that.

Bob Cho
01:11:02
So on the visual part, I want to look at it like the way you look at right now in terms of your environment.

Bob Cho
01:11:08
You see, you see what you see the colors make it three dimensional all around you, as if you're in that experience.

Bob Cho
01:11:19
And then darker.

Host
01:11:20
Bright.

Bob Cho
01:11:20
Yeah, dark or bright things like that.

Bob Cho
01:11:23
And then the auditory, the same thing.

Bob Cho
01:11:25
And the kinesthetic, your physical body is.

Bob Cho
01:11:28
You're, you're actually in it.

Bob Cho
01:11:30
And even the smells and the taste, you're actually in that environment three years from now.

Bob Cho
01:11:36
And you want to specify what is that date three years from now?

Bob Cho
01:11:41
What is it that you're actually doing and where you at?

Bob Cho
01:11:45
Are you in your new home?

Bob Cho
01:11:47
Are you doing your work?

Bob Cho
01:11:48
What does that look like?

Bob Cho
01:11:49
What does that environment look like?

Bob Cho
01:11:50
What does it sound like?

Bob Cho
01:11:51
What does it feel like?

Bob Cho
01:11:52
Is it.

Bob Cho
01:11:53
Maybe you smell like baked goods.

Bob Cho
01:11:56
You can smell.

Bob Cho
01:11:57
Maybe you just had a breakfast you haven't had before.

Bob Cho
01:12:01
Maybe you're in another country and you're vacationing, but you want to be at that specific date, that whole environment.

Bob Cho
01:12:09
Use all your senses to be involved in that environment.

Bob Cho
01:12:12
Now there's another thing you need to look at as well, because that's never going to happen until you understand your current reality.

Bob Cho
01:12:19
Where are you at right now?

Bob Cho
01:12:21
Because if you don't understand the truth of where you're at now, this Is not going to happen because you may put your mind like, okay, my current reality, but you may lie to yourself.

Bob Cho
01:12:34
You need to be truthful with yourself.

Bob Cho
01:12:36
Your current reality.

Bob Cho
01:12:37
Now you see what's going to be happening in the future in your current reality.

Bob Cho
01:12:42
Now we're going to go back to the future, and you're going to backtrack.

Bob Cho
01:12:45
You're going to think about, okay, what did I do the week before in order to get to me to where I got to, and what did I do the week before all the way back down to your current reality.

Bob Cho
01:12:57
So now, in essence, have a roadmap that you're going to now move forward on.

Bob Cho
01:13:03
So this is the action I have to take tomorrow or this afternoon from where you started.

Bob Cho
01:13:10
This is the next step I'm about to take.

Bob Cho
01:13:11
Next step, next step.

Bob Cho
01:13:12
Now, having said that, because of uncertainty, we don't know what's actually going to happen yet.

Bob Cho
01:13:20
If you have a roadmap, you can make adjustments.

Bob Cho
01:13:23
This is where you.

Bob Cho
01:13:24
You mentioned earlier about being flexible, being adaptable.

Bob Cho
01:13:27
So when something happens, we need to be flexible.

Bob Cho
01:13:30
But you're still moving forward towards making that happen.

Bob Cho
01:13:34
It may not be exactly the same yet.

Bob Cho
01:13:37
It may be better.

Bob Cho
01:13:38
You have something to focus on on terms of that.

Bob Cho
01:13:42
You're moving forward towards that thing, but you're doing it in each present moment.

Bob Cho
01:13:50
Each present moment.

Bob Cho
01:13:51
And again we will come, like, in each moment, we're going to come to a different path, different paths.

Bob Cho
01:13:56
We may have, like, this path, this path, this path.

Bob Cho
01:13:59
We make this decision, this decision, this decision, this decision.

Bob Cho
01:14:03
So we have to look at which decision is going to be the best that's going to be focused on our why we take that path.

Bob Cho
01:14:09
We take this path, we take this path.

Bob Cho
01:14:11
So it's not like a straight line, but it's going to be like this, like this, like this all the way through till you eventually get there and just realize that.

Bob Cho
01:14:20
And I enjoy that.

Bob Cho
01:14:22
I don't want things certain.

Bob Cho
01:14:23
I don't want things to be like, boom, boom, boom.

Bob Cho
01:14:26
I want to go through these different challenges eventually going to get me there.

Bob Cho
01:14:29
To me, that's fun.

Host
01:14:31
So do you believe in the flip side also of really, like, allowing yourself to do some of the shadow work?

Host
01:14:38
Which I guess would be like, okay, if I don't do this in three years, this is what I'm going to feel.

Host
01:14:44
I'm going to be disappointed in myself.

Host
01:14:46
I'm going to be in the same place I am now because I feel like a lot of sales scripts will take people through that and nlp, personal breakthrough session or whatever might take people through that.

Host
01:14:56
And so do you think that that's a necessary part of the process as well, is to truly allow yourself to feel what it would feel like if you don't accomplish this thing and you never accomplish this thing?

Bob Cho
01:15:06
Sure.

Bob Cho
01:15:07
I think if.

Bob Cho
01:15:09
If it's set up right at the beginning and really having a person in embracing that why, I think all that others, including the fear, what will go away, especially if they stay on track.

Bob Cho
01:15:23
Because the truth is, your why could be what you're already involved in right now, what you're doing in a moment.

Bob Cho
01:15:30
So once you understand that you're what you're doing, your why right now, you're going to have this goal, you're going after.

Bob Cho
01:15:36
But if you do your why in a moment, I think that that goes away.

Bob Cho
01:15:39
Now, having said that, yeah, I think if we take a person through that process and what if you get off track in terms of your why?

Bob Cho
01:15:49
Where would your life be?

Bob Cho
01:15:51
What would it be like?

Bob Cho
01:15:52
Imagine that part that may force them to get back into that, staying on track with their why.

Bob Cho
01:15:59
And I like to tell people that we're all going to have, like, certain goals and objectives and outcomes and all this kind of stuff, but it's most more important, like, yeah, you may not have the same outcome in three years, but if you're still on track with your why, even if it's a different outcome where you.

Bob Cho
01:16:17
What you're feeling is still going to be the same as if your previous outcome and you have this outcome as long as you stay true to your why all the way through.

Bob Cho
01:16:27
Because I love that.

Bob Cho
01:16:28
Yeah, because things change anyway.

Bob Cho
01:16:31
Uncertainty.

Bob Cho
01:16:32
We talked about that.

Bob Cho
01:16:33
Chaos theory talks about it as well.

Bob Cho
01:16:35
And Edward Lorenz, who created chaos theory and butterfly effect and all that kind of stuff, and he talked about that.

Bob Cho
01:16:43
So something on the outside may happen.

Bob Cho
01:16:45
We don't know.

Bob Cho
01:16:46
Like, we may have our path, but something may affect that path and so forth.

Host
01:16:53
Like one little idea in a book.

Bob Cho
01:16:56
One little idea in a book, and it takes you.

Bob Cho
01:16:59
Oh, my gosh, yeah.

Bob Cho
01:17:00
And look at your own path.

Bob Cho
01:17:03
Look at all the things that affected you, that led you to where you're at now, interviewing me on your podcast, and then what's going to be happening in the future, all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:17:14
And you think back going back to high school, would you have thought about, like, you would be doing something like, where you're at now?

Host
01:17:20
Not at all.

Host
01:17:21
Not at all.

Bob Cho
01:17:22
Not at all.

Host
01:17:22
I thought I was going to be a personal trainer, strength coach, like yeah.

Host
01:17:25
And some sort of college gym or something.

Bob Cho
01:17:28
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Cho
01:17:30
And here you are, you're.

Bob Cho
01:17:31
And a year from now you may be on some major stage.

Bob Cho
01:17:35
You never know.

Bob Cho
01:17:36
And you know, like somebody like Tony Robbins or something like that.

Bob Cho
01:17:39
You never know.

Host
01:17:41
I know, I know.

Bob Cho
01:17:42
I met Tony Robbins back in the early 80s and I never expected him to become the Tony Robbins we see now.

Host
01:17:48
Yeah, it's crazy.

Host
01:17:49
It's absolutely insane.

Host
01:17:50
So my rational brain and can't help but think about what's going on behind the scenes, what's going on underneath the surface of like something.

Host
01:17:59
When you say focus on your vision and make it very central, make it a whole central experience.

Host
01:18:05
Because I know it's to some person that's going to sound like the Law of Attraction.

Host
01:18:08
It's going to sound like, oh, if I imagine it enough, it'll come true.

Host
01:18:12
And there may be, there may be something to that.

Host
01:18:16
You know, from all the books I've read, I think there may be something to that and I can't deny it entirely, but I.

Host
01:18:21
What I see is this like rewiring of the nervous system.

Bob Cho
01:18:24
Correct.

Host
01:18:24
You know, Correct.

Host
01:18:25
And so it's like when you're imagining this thing and you're making it a very central experience, then you're able to create a comfortability or a sense of certainty around that thing coming to you.

Host
01:18:37
Whereas if it's like me being a millionaire is something that's unfamiliar to me.

Host
01:18:42
I've never thought about being a millionaire.

Host
01:18:44
I've never been a millionaire.

Host
01:18:45
I'm confused, you know, what it even means to be a millionaire.

Host
01:18:47
It's kind of daunting if I've never really let myself imagine that.

Host
01:18:51
Truly imagine what it's like then when it comes scary.

Host
01:18:54
And then when the opportunity even comes around, I may shy away from it because it's scary and I may not even be conscious.

Host
01:19:00
It may be subconscious because my nervous system is overwhelmed and like this million dollar idea that could pan out and could be amazing for me ends up being something that I'm avoiding.

Host
01:19:10
And so then on the flip side of, of really creating that pain response around the negative experience.

Host
01:19:18
So, you know, in three years I will feel discouraged and I'll feel in the way that I never went after my dream.

Host
01:19:24
I'll feel sad.

Host
01:19:25
Those, those sorts of negative experiences then begin to rewire the nervous system to feel negatively for not doing the thing that you should be doing.

Host
01:19:35
And so I just wanted to make sure that we kind of like touched on that because I know that you're kind of into Neuroscience and all this stuff.

Host
01:19:40
And so I don't want to just leave it at, like, to create your vision or to make your vision more clear.

Host
01:19:45
We just make it very sensual into all the logical people.

Host
01:19:48
They're like, that's.

Host
01:19:49
That's a challenge for me.

Host
01:19:50
That's a challenge to even, like, really go inside and, okay, what's it smell like?

Host
01:19:54
What's it taste like?

Host
01:19:54
What's it feel like?

Host
01:19:55
What's it.

Host
01:19:55
I'm very.

Host
01:19:56
In my head, I'm like.

Host
01:19:57
And so to overcome that challenge, but also to understand the importance of making it a central experience for rewiring the nervous system.

Bob Cho
01:20:06
Correct.

Host
01:20:06
I'm curious your thoughts on that.

Bob Cho
01:20:08
Yeah, let me go a little bit further.

Bob Cho
01:20:09
So we'll start off especially you mentioned neuroscience.

Bob Cho
01:20:13
So neurons that fire together wire together.

Bob Cho
01:20:16
And that's been said over many, many, many decades.

Bob Cho
01:20:20
And it's based in evidence in terms of how our.

Bob Cho
01:20:23
How our.

Bob Cho
01:20:24
How our brains work, including cognitive flexibility, neuroplasticity, and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:20:30
When we learn something new, our brains will start connecting those kind of things.

Bob Cho
01:20:35
So the actions we take and so forth, our brains will connect it.

Bob Cho
01:20:39
And the more times we do it, the stronger it gets, the less we do something or when we stop doing something that we had already had a strong connection with, they start weakening, because now we're focused on that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:20:52
For example, I remember back in grade school, I had to memorize all the state capitals of every single state in the United States.

Bob Cho
01:21:01
You think I know it now?

Bob Cho
01:21:02
Heck, no, I don't know it now because I'm not focused on that.

Bob Cho
01:21:05
That's not even a thing.

Bob Cho
01:21:06
Why would I want to know that?

Bob Cho
01:21:07
I mean, it's.

Bob Cho
01:21:09
It's irrelevant.

Bob Cho
01:21:10
So what's irrelevant for me just doesn't exist anymore.

Bob Cho
01:21:13
Plus, I can Google it or something like that, or have that kind of thing.

Bob Cho
01:21:16
That makes it easier.

Bob Cho
01:21:18
Yet as.

Bob Cho
01:21:19
As we talked about before in terms of, like, focusing on what we want.

Bob Cho
01:21:22
And then I backtrack all the way back to the current reality, part of your current reality, in order to.

Bob Cho
01:21:28
To gain experiences.

Bob Cho
01:21:30
You practice.

Bob Cho
01:21:31
Now you can practice in a mine.

Bob Cho
01:21:33
In martial arts, we do katas.

Bob Cho
01:21:37
We do a physical manifestation of actual things.

Bob Cho
01:21:41
But we can do what's called scripting.

Bob Cho
01:21:43
So we can script out what we want to do, and we practice that.

Bob Cho
01:21:48
For example, going back to grade school, we did fire drills, correct?

Bob Cho
01:21:52
And those fire drills, the more we did it.

Bob Cho
01:21:55
So when something actually happens, we would follow that out.

Bob Cho
01:21:58
We would do the same thing.

Bob Cho
01:22:00
And so we can take actions on something we want to focus on.

Bob Cho
01:22:04
And you mentioned money.

Bob Cho
01:22:06
So we can read something from maybe an expert on money, especially becoming a millionaire.

Bob Cho
01:22:13
But what did they do?

Bob Cho
01:22:14
What were some of the actions that they took?

Bob Cho
01:22:16
So don't just read a book.

Bob Cho
01:22:18
Find something that you can do actionable within a book itself and do it and take action on it.

Bob Cho
01:22:25
Practice it, practice it.

Bob Cho
01:22:27
But you can script out on your mind.

Bob Cho
01:22:28
You can even practice it in your mind.

Bob Cho
01:22:30
Because when we practice in our mind, it's the same thing.

Bob Cho
01:22:33
Our mind doesn't know the difference between something we actually done or something we imagined.

Bob Cho
01:22:38
So you imagine, but it's not just about thinking that you're going to be a millionaire.

Bob Cho
01:22:44
That doesn't work.

Bob Cho
01:22:45
But it's to practice in your own mind.

Bob Cho
01:22:48
What are the steps that I need to do on a regular basis?

Bob Cho
01:22:52
I can have you practice.

Bob Cho
01:22:53
If you've never done a fire drill before, I can have you imagine being in that environment and going to each step to get to where you need to be, just imagining that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:23:03
So that's kind of clarity that you have to have in your imagination.

Bob Cho
01:23:06
What am I actually?

Bob Cho
01:23:07
What are the physical things I'm actually doing?

Bob Cho
01:23:09
That's going to help to help me to wire my brain.

Bob Cho
01:23:14
So when the actual thing comes, it's going to be a lot easier.

Bob Cho
01:23:17
In the Marines, we did practice over and over and over again, Especially like in recon and force recon, practicing towards a mission.

Bob Cho
01:23:25
We do the specific mission, but we would practice it over and over and over and over again and then became easier.

Bob Cho
01:23:32
Yeah, we had circumstances where we had to adapt or those kind of things because things change.

Bob Cho
01:23:38
Things don't always go according to plan.

Bob Cho
01:23:41
But the more you practice and looking at it from a lot of different perspectives, diversity, I think helps a lot in terms of being able to make decisions.

Bob Cho
01:23:50
Remember I said early on, all our decisions, everything we do is based on our past knowledge and past experiences, including what we practice as part of that.

Bob Cho
01:23:59
So going to be a lot easier when we move forward because we're going to make the decisions, better decisions.

Bob Cho
01:24:06
Especially when we have a lot of diversity in terms of what we studied and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:24:11
Our decisions are going to be that much better moving forward.

Bob Cho
01:24:14
So we can make a decision now and the next one and next one, the next one based on the past.

Bob Cho
01:24:19
Our brain is wired that way.

Bob Cho
01:24:21
So you'll be able to move forward and be able to get what you want.

Bob Cho
01:24:24
But you cannot sit back and read something or take a course or take a class or even, I think, a really good Coach helps you to put into practice and gives you homework and everything like that, and making sure that you stay on track towards that, that you're wiring your brain in terms of that way.

Bob Cho
01:24:45
But just don't sit back and read something and think that you know what you know and you don't know that you only have the knowledge out of the book.

Bob Cho
01:24:52
You have to take that and put in action.

Bob Cho
01:24:55
Practice, practice, practice, practice, wire that brain.

Bob Cho
01:24:58
And then, yeah, you'll be able to get to where you need to get to.

Bob Cho
01:25:02
I love that.

Host
01:25:04
And I feel like I find myself.

Host
01:25:06
And so I'm curious your opinions on this, but I find myself seeing that need for a really strong why being very important for corporations as well as for entrepreneurs, as well as for even athletes and in organizations, sporting organizations.

Host
01:25:21
And so it's kind of funny, like being an expert in that, being able to take people through that, you know, is something that can be very valuable that I don't, I don't know if people really understand how valuable that is, how everything kind of stems down from that values level.

Bob Cho
01:25:39
Yeah.

Host
01:25:40
You have any thoughts on that?

Bob Cho
01:25:41
Yeah, I think it goes back to really learning to understand them so they can understand, you know, what are the values in terms of that, if they know their why.

Bob Cho
01:25:56
And I'm glad you mentioned values, because if your why doesn't match up with your own personal values, then what you find in terms of what you're helping with doesn't become valuable.

Bob Cho
01:26:10
And so I think all that has to match up again in initial coaching sessions.

Bob Cho
01:26:15
Do you do values solicitation at all?

Host
01:26:18
No, I can't say I do.

Host
01:26:20
I didn't do the master prac.

Host
01:26:21
And that's when you're supposed to learn that.

Host
01:26:22
So I've studied it on my own.

Host
01:26:24
I'm pretty, I'm pretty familiar with values elicitation, but I've never actually taken someone through it.

Bob Cho
01:26:28
We'll, we'll, we'll talk about that.

Bob Cho
01:26:29
Off.

Bob Cho
01:26:30
But they basically just want to find out what is it that a person value the most.

Bob Cho
01:26:35
So there's typically, we want to narrow down from a whole list of values and values and a lot of different things.

Bob Cho
01:26:42
Narrow down to your top five values and, and then you want to find their number one, what's called driver value.

Bob Cho
01:26:48
So that driver value usually doesn't change.

Bob Cho
01:26:51
It can, but usually doesn't change.

Bob Cho
01:26:53
This is what drives them.

Bob Cho
01:26:54
So you need to connect that with that why.

Bob Cho
01:26:58
And whatever they do, they're going to be utilizing that.

Bob Cho
01:27:02
So with your coaching program, once they, they know that and they value that based on their top value.

Bob Cho
01:27:08
And you're always going to be connecting that.

Bob Cho
01:27:10
They're going to be moving forward.

Bob Cho
01:27:12
So the lessons you give them or the coach or the.

Bob Cho
01:27:15
Not, not the lessons, but the actions that they're going to take is going to be based on that in addition to their.

Bob Cho
01:27:20
Their why.

Bob Cho
01:27:20
And they will find that valuable.

Bob Cho
01:27:23
So you can't, like, generalize with everybody, especially like, with coaching.

Bob Cho
01:27:27
What works for one person is not going to work with somebody else.

Bob Cho
01:27:30
So it really goes back down to what we said at the beginning.

Bob Cho
01:27:34
Know them.

Bob Cho
01:27:35
Once you know them and what you put them through is you connect that to them, they're going to want to move forward again.

Bob Cho
01:27:44
It's a subconscious thing, but you need to find what, that why, what their values are, and even their own beliefs.

Bob Cho
01:27:53
While beliefs could be changed because I've changed my beliefs quite a bit through the years, what I used to believe 20 years ago has shifted today as I gain new knowledge, new experiences and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:28:05
Yeah.

Bob Cho
01:28:06
So I'm not the same a person.

Bob Cho
01:28:08
In fact, by the way, I'm not the same person now as I was when we first started this interview.

Bob Cho
01:28:15
I'm a whole different person.

Host
01:28:17
It's crazy.

Host
01:28:19
So there's a.

Host
01:28:19
There's a guy named Richard Barrett.

Host
01:28:21
I don't know if you've heard of him.

Host
01:28:22
He, like, consults with organizations, and he's even consulted with countries.

Host
01:28:27
And he has this, like, whole model built around, like, Eastern philosophies and like, consciousness as well as cultural values.

Host
01:28:35
And so what he does is he goes into a place and he figures out what are the current values that you're seeing?

Host
01:28:40
So it goes and talks to the employees, what are the current values that you're seeing in the corporation?

Host
01:28:45
Then he asks them, what are the current values you'd like to see in the corporation?

Host
01:28:49
And then the manager goes to the manager, owner, leader, whoever, and goes, what sorts of values would you like to see in your business?

Host
01:28:56
You know, what would you really like to represent your business?

Host
01:28:59
And then the.

Host
01:29:00
The amount of difference between those values is cultural entropy.

Host
01:29:05
And so it's like the further out of line those values are, the more problems you have in your corporation.

Host
01:29:10
And so the idea is to figure out ways in which you can kind of line those values up.

Host
01:29:15
And so I feel like that that gap is kind of what most people are experiencing on a micro level with themselves.

Host
01:29:20
It's like, okay, well, what sort of values do you believe in?

Host
01:29:23
You know, what sort of values would you like to see in the world?

Host
01:29:26
What sort of values are you living?

Host
01:29:27
You know what sort of values are being rewarded in the world as well right now and how much differences between those is how much dysregulation, dysfunction and things that we're experiencing in our own life.

Bob Cho
01:29:38
Yeah, going back to the organization.

Bob Cho
01:29:40
So in terms of values, depending on how the organization is structured, because a lot of companies, especially larger companies, they have a top down management style and then you have like startups that have a bottom up management style and a top down is more dictatorial style.

Bob Cho
01:29:58
The bottom up is now you have everybody embracing the values and the missions.

Bob Cho
01:30:04
Everything is from here, the employees on a line and in society we're also affected, whether it's culturally, in others, whether it's a top down or bottom up.

Bob Cho
01:30:18
So bottom up is going back to our core self.

Bob Cho
01:30:21
And a lot of people don't know who they are.

Bob Cho
01:30:25
Remember Socrates says know thyself.

Bob Cho
01:30:28
A lot of people don't know who they are.

Bob Cho
01:30:30
Their whole self is taken from other people.

Bob Cho
01:30:33
Whether again it's their culture, whether it's the educational system, family members and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:30:39
Then we're given, going back to talking about identity.

Bob Cho
01:30:42
People will have their, their labels as who they are, but, but it's not who they are, that's just a label.

Bob Cho
01:30:50
And a label could be their profession.

Bob Cho
01:30:53
So a lot of people, when you ask them who are you?

Bob Cho
01:30:56
They may say, well I'm a lawyer, I'm a doctor and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:30:59
No, that's just a label.

Bob Cho
01:31:01
That's not who you are.

Bob Cho
01:31:03
It's.

Bob Cho
01:31:03
So we need to go back to know thyself.

Bob Cho
01:31:07
And based on know thyself we discover our why.

Bob Cho
01:31:11
But that's very difficult because people may be scared of finding out who they really are.

Bob Cho
01:31:17
And it could be like you mentioned earlier, that shadow self too.

Host
01:31:20
Do you have any tips for someone who feels like maybe they're not in the line of work, but they don't know what their line of work could be?

Host
01:31:30
You know, they're, they're really struggling with that and they don't know themselves.

Bob Cho
01:31:33
Yeah.

Bob Cho
01:31:33
I would tell people or ask of them, what is it that when you were like really young, what is it that resonated with you?

Bob Cho
01:31:43
What is it that, that when you think about it, like I did with Barry, that where he finally discovered that, that DJ self and everything else, which it was always there, or the psychiatrist who, her, her actress self.

Bob Cho
01:31:58
I think a lot of people will tend to tamp that down.

Bob Cho
01:32:02
And even like with me I had to do that as well.

Bob Cho
01:32:07
And it could be that shadow side.

Bob Cho
01:32:09
So we need to integrate, as Carl Jung talks about, the shadow self.

Bob Cho
01:32:13
We need to maybe integrate that shadow in terms of discovering our whole self too, so we could discover who we are.

Bob Cho
01:32:20
And the shadow self is that side that we don't want other people to know.

Bob Cho
01:32:25
So we walk around wearing a mask all the time, what we hide from the world.

Bob Cho
01:32:31
So we want the world to see this part.

Bob Cho
01:32:33
And eventually we come to believe that this mask is us.

Bob Cho
01:32:38
And I dealt with that myself, I.

Bob Cho
01:32:41
In terms of running an international martial arts organization.

Bob Cho
01:32:45
I wanted to have people look at me as this really tough hardcore guy and not the guy who plays with puppets and does ventral quizzes or does all these other kind of things.

Bob Cho
01:32:58
That is the opposite of that.

Bob Cho
01:33:01
Not the person who loves art and, and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:33:05
Not the person who, who just enjoys, you know, even something acting silly or whatever, even going in a middle store in a store and playing with kids and everything like that or things like that.

Bob Cho
01:33:15
So I put on this Persona.

Bob Cho
01:33:17
And so once I uncovered that and exposed the person who was maybe more caring and things like that.

Bob Cho
01:33:26
Now I always had a part of that, but that was as a protector.

Bob Cho
01:33:30
So protector was stronger in my mind.

Bob Cho
01:33:33
But the truth is that shadow self, and the shadow self is not somebody who is like mean or anything like that.

Bob Cho
01:33:42
It could be somebody who's, who's caring that you didn't want to expose that.

Bob Cho
01:33:47
So whatever that is, you need to bring that out, integrate it.

Bob Cho
01:33:50
Now if you, if you have a lot of, if emotional mental issues, then you need to build strong and from yourself before you start going in, doing shadow work or something.

Bob Cho
01:34:00
Because it can make things worse, especially when you see that side of you that you didn't want.

Bob Cho
01:34:04
But we expose that all the time, inadvertently.

Bob Cho
01:34:08
We'll judge other people, but it's truly we're judging our shadow self and so forth.

Host
01:34:17
Would you say there's a breakthrough that you had that allowed you to kind of have that freedom mentally to really just allow yourself to be the quote unquote weirdo or the diverse person who, you know, both experienced caring as well as, you know, being a hard ass.

Host
01:34:33
Now how did you, how did you come to allow yourself to be that person?

Bob Cho
01:34:36
I realized and I think it goes back to curiosity and studying and reading a lot in order to.

Bob Cho
01:34:45
Again, I studied a lot of shadow work and everything and, and so I think it was curiosity that allowed me to bring that out more than anything else.

Bob Cho
01:34:56
Again, I'm curious by nature anyway and curious about myself was very important.

Bob Cho
01:35:03
And Was there superficial self that I wanted the world to see, or was there something deeper?

Bob Cho
01:35:08
So once I did that and I went down and just exposed that and let it out, oh, my gosh.

Bob Cho
01:35:16
It just got to be really, I think, interesting at first and then exciting second.

Bob Cho
01:35:23
But I got to bring something out that I think helped me quite a bit.

Bob Cho
01:35:27
And I don't, like, worry about making mistakes or whatever, because I know that as humans, we're all going to make mistakes.

Bob Cho
01:35:33
And even when I'm speaking on stage, if I make a mistake, I make a mistake.

Bob Cho
01:35:38
But I don't allow that to stop me.

Bob Cho
01:35:40
If I can act silly around people and just like a little kid, a little kid, you see a toddler running around and they're doing stuff and everything, they don't really care.

Bob Cho
01:35:52
They don't care about any of that kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:35:54
They'll go out in the middle of public and maybe seeing appearance, trying to stop and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:36:00
So, in essence, that was me coming out, being like that again and just expressing myself.

Bob Cho
01:36:08
I get to act silly.

Bob Cho
01:36:09
I'm allowed to act silly.

Bob Cho
01:36:11
Other people, adults may see that initially, but the truth is, on a subconscious basis, those adults want to be like that again.

Bob Cho
01:36:20
Those adults want to be a kid again, but they fear it.

Bob Cho
01:36:24
They fear what other people may think about them.

Bob Cho
01:36:27
And yes, we think in terms of more rational ways as an adult than we did as a kid.

Bob Cho
01:36:34
We don't.

Bob Cho
01:36:34
We're not going to jump in front of a car and doing those kind of things and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:36:39
We understand that.

Bob Cho
01:36:40
But we also tamp down that curious side, we tamp down that expressive side, we tamp down that creative side, and we tamp down the shadow side.

Bob Cho
01:36:50
So we need to allow that to come out and express once again.

Host
01:36:56
That's powerful.

Host
01:36:57
And I have to touch on something you said that was really important to me because you said it sims back to curiosity.

Host
01:37:03
And I was curious where you're going to go with that.

Bob Cho
01:37:05
Oh, got it.

Host
01:37:08
And so that was very.

Host
01:37:09
That was a very good answer, though.

Host
01:37:10
Like you said, you said you were curious about if you had more to offer.

Host
01:37:14
I don't know those are your exact words, but it was something around the back.

Host
01:37:16
Yeah.

Host
01:37:16
You're curious, you know, is.

Host
01:37:18
Is this it?

Host
01:37:19
Or do I have more to offer?

Host
01:37:20
Is there more of me?

Host
01:37:21
Is there a deeper level of myself that I have not uncovered and really brought to the world?

Host
01:37:25
You know?

Host
01:37:26
And to me, like, that is one of the most solid, best forms of curiosity that someone could have.

Host
01:37:32
Is like, is there.

Host
01:37:34
Is there more that I can give, Is there more that I can do?

Host
01:37:36
Is there, is there more to me, you know, and so like yeah, I'm glad that that was your answer.

Host
01:37:41
Around like how do you find that freedom of really just being yourself?

Host
01:37:44
And it's like, well I have to sit down and ask myself like is there, is there more to me that I'm just not really showing and to allow myself to be curious about that.

Bob Cho
01:37:53
Well, I'm always, yeah, think, think about creativity because without curiosity you can't be creative.

Bob Cho
01:38:01
And you look at a five year old and among five year olds, 95% are creative.

Bob Cho
01:38:08
By the time we become adults, only 5% of the population is creative and really curious.

Bob Cho
01:38:17
They don't challenge, they basically 95% does not challenge the status quo.

Bob Cho
01:38:22
They go along with, with the flow instead of looking different ways.

Bob Cho
01:38:27
Only that 5% but those 5% are the ones that, that like Stephen Jobs and others, they're the 5%.

Bob Cho
01:38:35
And so we need to break out of that and go back to the five year old self.

Bob Cho
01:38:39
Have you heard of the spaghetti and marshmallow test?

Host
01:38:44
Yeah, I've heard of the marshmallow one.

Host
01:38:45
Not the spaghetti.

Bob Cho
01:38:46
Yeah, so the spaghetti and marshmallow test.

Bob Cho
01:38:51
So basically they take different groups of people and for example like CEOs and engineers and MBAs and other groups and they put them where they have 20 sticks of spaghetti and they have a tape, I believe it's a foot long piece of tape and a marshmallow.

Bob Cho
01:39:12
So they have to build a structure with the marshmallow on top and the highest structure wins.

Bob Cho
01:39:18
And so they had different groups including a group of people who just graduated from kindergarten.

Bob Cho
01:39:25
And so the ones that built the shortest structure were people who graduated with their MBA and CEOs.

Bob Cho
01:39:35
They did a little bit better than that.

Bob Cho
01:39:39
But they also had help from some other people and engineers because they understood engineering.

Bob Cho
01:39:44
They, they did pretty good.

Bob Cho
01:39:46
But the ones that consistently had the highest ones were the five year olds.

Bob Cho
01:39:51
Now here's the reason why the MBA had had the smallest ones because they, they tend to follow like everything was like a step by step process.

Bob Cho
01:40:02
This is where you do stuff if you follow along.

Bob Cho
01:40:05
And that's where they were thinking they had to follow this certain kind of ways.

Bob Cho
01:40:09
The five year olds were curious experimenters.

Bob Cho
01:40:13
They would do something and would fall apart.

Bob Cho
01:40:15
They would do something.

Bob Cho
01:40:16
Now they had, I think they had like 20 minutes to do it, something like that.

Bob Cho
01:40:19
But they would do it over and over again till they succeeded and had the tallest and most unique creative structures on top.

Bob Cho
01:40:29
Of that.

Bob Cho
01:40:30
Geez, yeah.

Host
01:40:31
I've seen something about genius being trained out of people and how most kids are considered a genius level.

Host
01:40:38
I'm not sure who did that study, but I've definitely seen that somewhere.

Host
01:40:41
And that's, that's been very intriguing to me.

Host
01:40:43
Along the lines with what I was mentioning before with the brain waves, you know, with someone being able to tap into like a theta brainwave from a waking state, because as we grow older, we're unable, most people are unable to tap into that brain wave without falling asleep, without being very drowsy, you know, unable to really focus on a single task.

Host
01:41:02
You know, and I believe that.

Host
01:41:03
And I believe that like the polyphasic sleep cycles that like DaVinci and Tesla and, and these guys used to have were perhaps allowing them to maintain that sense of sleepiness while still being active and focused on a task, which is allowing them to act from that theta brainwave.

Host
01:41:20
See what I'm saying?

Host
01:41:21
So I feel like a lot of people struggle to maintain that ability.

Host
01:41:26
So there's a guy named Vishen Lakhilani who owns something called Mindvalley and he, he's.

Host
01:41:30
Yeah, yes, he, he uses this term called polyphasic.

Host
01:41:34
He says most of us are not polyphasic anymore.

Host
01:41:36
And Steven Kotler talks about this too.

Host
01:41:38
The Flow Genome project.

Host
01:41:39
Whereas once we, once we basically evolve out of the theta brainwave, we evolve into alpha and beta brainwaves, we don't ever really allow ourselves to go back into theta unless we're sleeping.

Host
01:41:50
And so I think that, that these, these people are able to, to really do that.

Host
01:41:54
And I think that the kids are naturally in that place of theta.

Host
01:41:58
And so it's just like really creative, pulling from the ether and not judging themselves, not thinking about all the consequences that they lose.

Host
01:42:05
I'm sure some of the CEOs or MBAs are like, this would be embarrassing to lose to five year olds because I'm an MBA.

Host
01:42:12
And so it's like all that tension and all that stuff that they're accumulating along with the attempt to try to win is just like so silly compared to the five year old just playing and having fun.

Bob Cho
01:42:22
And having fun.

Bob Cho
01:42:24
Yeah.

Bob Cho
01:42:25
And that's one of the reasons I like hanging around and learning from younger kids and younger adults and, and Gen Z's and and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:42:34
Years ago I interviewed this one girl on my podcast and now she came from like, her parents are both originally from India and she lives up in the Bay Area and she created this board game called Coder Bunnies.

Bob Cho
01:42:47
So it's a board game on teaching how to computer code from basic to advanced levels.

Bob Cho
01:42:53
And yeah, so she.

Bob Cho
01:42:56
Amazing gal.

Bob Cho
01:42:58
And so the year before I interviewed her, she was recognized by then President Obama.

Bob Cho
01:43:04
She was also recognized by the city in San Francisco and she was a keynote speaker at the Woman in Tech conference.

Bob Cho
01:43:10
And since then her company, Coder Bunnies have become a multimillion dollar company.

Bob Cho
01:43:14
Her second company is Multimillion Dollars.

Bob Cho
01:43:16
She teaches young entrepreneurs and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:43:18
She's been in Vogue, she's been in Time magazine, she's an international keynote speaker and so forth.

Bob Cho
01:43:24
Now here's the interesting thing, which is really cool.

Bob Cho
01:43:27
When I interviewed her, she just turned nine years old.

Bob Cho
01:43:31
She started prototyping her board game at six.

Host
01:43:34
Oh my God, Yes.

Bob Cho
01:43:36
She's now in high school.

Bob Cho
01:43:37
She's 16 years old.

Host
01:43:38
She's multimillionaire.

Bob Cho
01:43:40
Multimillionaire.

Bob Cho
01:43:41
She hired a mother who has an MBA to be her business advisor.

Bob Cho
01:43:45
And she was curious.

Bob Cho
01:43:47
She, she, I spoke to her father because I wanted to know about her parents and, and her father said they just allowed her to be curious.

Bob Cho
01:43:55
They didn't try to drum anything out.

Bob Cho
01:43:57
Whatever she wanted to do, she wanted to do.

Bob Cho
01:43:59
She was curious about how a website was built.

Bob Cho
01:44:03
So her father showed her how a website's built, the underlying code and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:44:08
She was curious about the codes, she was curious about all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:44:11
And she was curious how can she take all that kind of stuff and do it in a fun way to teach computer coding.

Bob Cho
01:44:17
And that's what she did and created Coder Bunnies and she created the second one and now teaches young entrepreneurs.

Bob Cho
01:44:26
She has a lot of top experts, even well known people who are in her events, which she brought in for them to help educate as well.

Bob Cho
01:44:36
But she did all this kind of stuff when she was a kid.

Bob Cho
01:44:39
So yeah, people like her I learned from.

Bob Cho
01:44:43
So she was doing this early on.

Bob Cho
01:44:44
She had that kind of curious nature stemming back.

Bob Cho
01:44:49
She was that kindergartner that continued throughout her whole life.

Bob Cho
01:44:54
Well, her short life so far.

Bob Cho
01:44:56
She's only 16.

Bob Cho
01:44:57
But to this day, still being curious, still allowing herself to express the best parts and everything else.

Host
01:45:07
So you think that that curiosity is like human nature?

Host
01:45:11
I mean, I feel like maybe some people are curious, more curious than others, but I mean, I can't help but wonder what sort of amazing world we could live in if we had environments.

Host
01:45:21
This is why I'm studying sociology.

Host
01:45:22
In which curiosity was cultivated.

Bob Cho
01:45:25
Correct.

Bob Cho
01:45:25
And that's what we need.

Bob Cho
01:45:27
And also going through a diversity of different Experiences because that will help.

Bob Cho
01:45:32
Boom, boom, boom.

Bob Cho
01:45:33
So I think a curious person will also want to learn different areas.

Bob Cho
01:45:36
Story Musgrave so Story was a, was a guy when he was 12 years old, I'm not sure which state I think it was, may have been New Jersey, but back long time ago when he was a kid, he, he lived on a farm where they grew hay and they had hail baling machines and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:45:55
And he was the kid at 12 years old, he had a, they had, he had to, they had to do the hand tying as the machines are going through to hand tie the, the wires for the, for the bells.

Bob Cho
01:46:08
But he had to be really fast.

Bob Cho
01:46:10
And so that was one thing that he learned how to do really, really, really good.

Bob Cho
01:46:16
And so later he, as he, as he graduated from high school and he went into the Marines like me, and he wanted to be a pilot, but they weren't going to allow him to be a pilot because he needed a college degree and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:46:30
And, and so he, he went into becoming an aviation mechanic.

Bob Cho
01:46:35
And he used a lot of what he learned in terms of aviation.

Bob Cho
01:46:38
He was very curious and working with his hands and all this kind of stuff.

Bob Cho
01:46:42
And he still wanted to be a pilot.

Bob Cho
01:46:44
So he ended up getting out of the Marines, he went to college and he got his degree in aerospace engineering.

Bob Cho
01:46:51
So he was doing that and yeah, so he did that.

Bob Cho
01:46:57
And so he still wanted to be a pilot.

Bob Cho
01:47:00
But this is early days, like when NASA started.

Bob Cho
01:47:03
And so he applied for that, but he was rejected to NASA because they wanted, back then, they wanted test pilots.

Bob Cho
01:47:10
And so he was rejected for becoming an astronaut.

Bob Cho
01:47:14
His degree meant nothing.

Bob Cho
01:47:17
So he ended up still, he got his pilot's license as a private pilot.

Bob Cho
01:47:22
So he did that.

Bob Cho
01:47:23
Then he went back to school, he went to medical school because he was curious about that.

Bob Cho
01:47:28
So he ended up going to medical school and he studied medicine, became a cardio surgeon.

Bob Cho
01:47:35
And so he perfected a technique of suit of using sutures.

Bob Cho
01:47:40
Remember going back to bailing of the hill and how do you tie it really fast and everything like that.

Bob Cho
01:47:45
He took that same technique and he used it to repair hearts, all the aspects around the heart.

Bob Cho
01:47:54
And that same technique's used to this day.

Bob Cho
01:47:56
And so he developed it from something he learned earlier.

Bob Cho
01:48:00
Now NASA was changing at this time and they were looking for people in other arenas.

Bob Cho
01:48:07
So they were going to send people to the moon.

Bob Cho
01:48:10
They needed the moon to develop.

Bob Cho
01:48:12
So they approached him, knowing his background, everything like that, and they said, Dr.

Bob Cho
01:48:18
Musgrave, we need your Help.

Bob Cho
01:48:21
And you have both medical and also your engineering background.

Bob Cho
01:48:25
We need help to develop the moon suit that was used for the Apollo missions.

Bob Cho
01:48:29
Then they had this thing called Skylab which he became involved in, which is precursor to the actual space stations.

Bob Cho
01:48:37
One of our early ones was sent out there and he helped to develop the sky lab and then later help on the work with the space shuttle.

Bob Cho
01:48:46
In terms of what's going to be used now, he still wanted to be an astronaut.

Bob Cho
01:48:50
Well, he got his chance with, with space shuttle because they need, now they needed his expertise.

Bob Cho
01:48:55
So he finally got to go out in space on a space shuttle.

Bob Cho
01:48:59
He did five shuttle missions.

Bob Cho
01:49:01
Five.

Bob Cho
01:49:02
Remember the Hubble space.

Bob Cho
01:49:04
Do you remember the Hubble Space Telescope that needed to be fixed?

Host
01:49:07
I can't say I remember that now.

Bob Cho
01:49:09
Yeah.

Bob Cho
01:49:09
So it was out of focus.

Bob Cho
01:49:11
So he did a spacewalk to repair the Hubble Space Telescope to bring it back into focus.

Bob Cho
01:49:18
So, so he, he did medicine on, on, on that, then came back down.

Bob Cho
01:49:23
He, he had his surgery for, for heart patient after that.

Host
01:49:29
So it's insane.

Bob Cho
01:49:31
And now he lives in Florida.

Bob Cho
01:49:33
He's doing other things, other creative areas and in terms of organics and all this kind of stuff, a whole nother thing.

Bob Cho
01:49:40
He's in his 80s now.

Bob Cho
01:49:42
Well, he.

Bob Cho
01:49:43
Almost 90 years old.

Bob Cho
01:49:44
Yeah.

Bob Cho
01:49:45
And he's still working, he's still curious and still being a kid.

Host
01:49:48
See, that's.

Host
01:49:49
Yeah, that's the kind of people that I want to develop.

Host
01:49:50
That's the kind of people that I just think that there's so many more out there than have been able to come to fruition that have really, you know, there's just a lot of value out there that can be brought to the world.

Host
01:50:00
If we had more people like that.

Host
01:50:02
And I don't think it's like we need to wait around for those people to show up.

Host
01:50:06
Like, I think they're, I think they're here, I think they're everywhere.

Host
01:50:08
I think we just need to develop into those people, you know, and so we have to allow people to experience and express themselves in a variety of ways.

Host
01:50:16
And so I think that's, I think that's huge moving forward.

Host
01:50:18
And I think that's something big that, you know, the dominating, tyrannical, you know, leadership that some people express is just.

Host
01:50:28
Will never, it will never get people to perform in the same way as just allow people to be themselves, the dictator.

Bob Cho
01:50:34
Maybe they need like in a short term decision making when there's a crisis going on.

Bob Cho
01:50:40
Yeah, sometimes that needs to be done over the long term.

Bob Cho
01:50:44
No, that that does not work.

Bob Cho
01:50:46
You do not want to squash people's ability to be creative, to express themselves, to be curious.

Bob Cho
01:50:53
Curious, curious all the time.

Host
01:50:55
Yep, that's, that's, that's so, so important.

Host
01:50:57
So we're going to go ahead and, and wrap it up here.

Host
01:51:00
I, I'm curious about.

Host
01:51:02
So we've touched on a lot of things, but when it comes to moving forward and evolving potential and really being prepared for the world that we're dealing with in the future, you know, being able to adapt and being resilient and things, I think that having a vision is huge.

Host
01:51:17
And that stems back to really knowing what it is that brings you joy, that you're passionate about that you, that it lights you up.

Host
01:51:25
And that comes from having a diverse amount of experiences.

Host
01:51:29
And so is there anything else that comes to mind when it comes to really just like preparing ourselves to be adaptable, to be resilient in the future?

Bob Cho
01:51:38
Yeah, I think a couple of what you just hit on the diversity and, and know that you don't know everything and always go back to a beginner's mindset in terms of learning and yeah, you have a lot of experiences and a lot of different arenas and, and you're probably very good in that.

Bob Cho
01:52:00
Yet you're not going to be able to learn until you're curious enough to learn something new.

Bob Cho
01:52:08
That's a beginner's mindset.

Bob Cho
01:52:09
Always learn something new on a regular basis.

Host
01:52:12
I love that.

Host
01:52:13
That's amazing advice.

Host
01:52:14
And that's actually where I don't know if you've ever read the book E.

Host
01:52:17
Myth by Michael Gerber.

Bob Cho
01:52:18
Yes, I met Michael years ago.

Bob Cho
01:52:20
Yep.

Host
01:52:21
Yeah, nice.

Host
01:52:22
Yeah, I love that.

Host
01:52:23
I didn't expect to see that in his book.

Host
01:52:25
You know what I mean?

Host
01:52:26
There's all these different advices he has.

Host
01:52:27
It's for entrepreneurs.

Host
01:52:28
You think it'd be very like, you know, business minded.

Host
01:52:31
And so he's like talking about go back to the beginner's mind and I'm like, that is, that is amazing advice truly.

Host
01:52:37
You know, and not only, not only so much so of like being open minded and being humble, you know, but really being, being curious.

Host
01:52:44
You know, I think like we said a lot.

Host
01:52:46
So yeah, I'm incredibly grateful that you joined me.

Host
01:52:50
Honestly, like, I'm really curious to see where your experiences take you over the next, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40 years.

Host
01:52:57
He said your uncle or whoever lived to 107, so.

Bob Cho
01:53:00
109.

Host
01:53:00
Yeah, you got quite a few years in front of you still.

Host
01:53:02
I'm sure the way that you're keeping yourself healthy.

Host
01:53:05
So, two, three, four, five more PhDs.

Host
01:53:07
I guess we'll see.

Bob Cho
01:53:08
I'll see where it goes.

Bob Cho
01:53:10
I mean, it's just continuing learning on my part and continuing experiencing and meeting amazing people like you.

Bob Cho
01:53:20
I mean, that's like it.

Bob Cho
01:53:23
Great, great.

Bob Cho
01:53:24
From our heart.

Host
01:53:25
Yeah, same, same.

Host
01:53:26
Is there.

Host
01:53:27
Is there any sort of mission that you have now moving forward, any sort of big vision that you're kind of working on, something you're building?

Host
01:53:34
Because I don't.

Host
01:53:34
I didn't really necessarily ask you about the Integrated Mind Institute or Mind Hack Academy.

Host
01:53:38
Is there any other stuff that you want to kind of share on real quick?

Bob Cho
01:53:41
Well, just.

Bob Cho
01:53:42
Just really quick.

Bob Cho
01:53:45
My thing is that we think about that analogy.

Bob Cho
01:53:49
If you give a man fish, you.

Bob Cho
01:53:51
You feed them for the age, you teach them how to fish, you feed them for life.

Bob Cho
01:53:55
But if you teach him how to teach others how to fish, then you can feed the whole world.

Bob Cho
01:53:59
And that's kind of where I'm at.

Bob Cho
01:54:01
I'm at.

Bob Cho
01:54:01
I want to be a teacher so people can go out and teach, and that will make the difference.

Bob Cho
01:54:08
That's kind of like that ripple effect.

Host
01:54:10
Now I get the coach's coach.

Host
01:54:12
Yep.

Host
01:54:13
I love that idea.

Host
01:54:14
Okay, and then.

Host
01:54:14
And then last thing, I guess, where.

Host
01:54:15
Where can they find you if they want to follow your stuff, if they're interested in what you have to say, if they want to know more about you, if they want to work with you?

Bob Cho
01:54:21
Yeah.

Bob Cho
01:54:21
So you can go to my website, bob show.com and then I'm up on social media, probably the best place.

Bob Cho
01:54:27
Just connect with me on LinkedIn and.

Bob Cho
01:54:29
Yeah, okay.

Host
01:54:30
Perfect.

Bob Cho
01:54:31
Yeah.

Host
01:54:31
And I have to thank you tremendously.

Host
01:54:34
I didn't share this necessarily, but we've talked before, and our talk last time was nearly this long as well, and just.

Host
01:54:42
Just wisdom packed and, you know, we went through a couple exercises and.

Host
01:54:47
And I've just always had a great time with you.

Host
01:54:49
Always a wealth of knowledge and an incredibly impactful human being.

Host
01:54:53
So thank you again for your time.

Host
01:54:54
Thank you for showing up on the podcast, and we'll definitely keep in touch and continue to see where our paths take us.

Bob Cho
01:55:01
Absolutely.

Bob Cho
01:55:03
It's been a real pleasure.

Bob Cho
01:55:04
Thank you as well.