Who was Charles Grodin when the cameras weren't rolling?
Most people know Charles Grodin from Midnight Run, The Heartbreak Kid or Beethoven. Far fewer know that he spent the last 20 years of his life working to get women out of prison, and visited them every week. Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause, the Charles Grodin documentary from James L. Freedman, tells both stories.
In Episode 288, Christian sits down with James L. Freedman, a longtime sitcom writer who came to documentary filmmaking late. A question at a party about the best job he ever had led to his first film, Glickman, which Martin Scorsese executive produced for HBO. For his third, Grodin's widow, Elissa Grodin, sent him seven boxes of archives, about a hundred hours of material, and James did all of the research himself.
James explains why he wouldn't make "an hour of him being funny" with the activism saved for the end. Instead he seeded Grodin's conscience through the whole film: the class president who helped Black students in Pittsburgh, the 1969 Simon & Garfunkel television special that lost its sponsor, and the CNBC show that turned to social issues. James quotes Grodin's own line: "You don't want me to picket the governor's office, you want me to be in the governor's office."
He also walks through how he hunted down archival footage, how an independent filmmaker got Robert De Niro, Steve Martin, Martin Short and Elaine May on camera, and how he keeps a budget down as, in his words, "one guy making this movie."
WATCH THE FILM: Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause is available to rent or buy on Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV, Fandango at Home and Google Play.
James's film Carl Laemmle airs on TCM on Friday, October 23, at 8:00 p.m. ET.
In this episode, you'll learn:
CHAPTERS
0:00 Midnight Run's Other Side
6:43 TV Writer Turned Filmmaker
12:24 Beginning, Middle and End
18:23 Getting De Niro and Elaine May
26:51 Charles Grodin on Johnny Carson
29:35 The Archival Footage Hunt
36:42 Narrating Your Own Documentary
39:43 Fair Use, Licensing and Costs
48:15 Scorsese's TCM Editing Trick
50:19 Weekly Prison Visits
53:54 Carl Laemmle Saved 300+ Refugees
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
How did a small documentary get Robert De Niro, Steve Martin and Martin Short?
Director James L. Freedman says his first two films helped: Elissa Grodin watched both before giving him her husband's story, then connected him with Robert De Niro and Steve Martin. He cold-called Martin Short. Freedman believes they agreed because they loved Charles Grodin, and that stars want to see other recognizable names in a film so they know they aren't being exploited.
What did Charles Grodin do for prison reform?
For the last 20 years of his life, Charles Grodin worked to get women out of prison, most of them mothers of color with young children who had been caught in police stings. Director James L. Freedman says Grodin visited them every week, and a friend who saw him after those visits said he would come away a broken man, crying. As Freedman tells it, Grodin believed he could do more inside the governor's office than picketing outside it.
How do independent documentary filmmakers keep costs down?
James L. Freedman doesn't pay himself for his time, so he does the slow work himself: all of his own research and his own calls to studios. He asks rights holders to donate clips and photos, and when he has to pay, he asks for a discount, reminding them he is one filmmaker, not a corporation. When something unavoidable costs more, like a hotel suite for an interview, he makes the money back by spending less elsewhere.
How do you find archival footage for a documentary?
Director James L. Freedman does his own research and calls it a scavenger hunt. With no footage of Lovers and Other Strangers, the Broadway play Charles Grodin directed, he Googled every name in the Playbill and found a scene on The Ed Sullivan Show. For Glickman, he slowed a two-second newsreel shot to four seconds, and a snowy VHS tape led him to an old Paramount newsreel on nitrate film that came back crystal clear six months later.
DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS
James's pick: Carl Laemmle (2019), his own second film, about the founder of Universal Studios, who helped more than 300 refugees escape Nazi Germany. It's on Amazon now. James says Glickman, his first film, comes to Fandango at Home by year's end.
SPONSORED BY VIRGIL FILMS ENTERTAINMENT
This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment, distributor of Super Size Me and the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, with over 25 years of distribution experience. https://virgilfilms.com
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ABOUT THE GUEST
James L. Freedman
Writer, director and narrator, Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause
James L. Freedman wrote in Hollywood for more than 25 years, on shows including Coach, Zoe and Cybill, where he was also a producer. His documentary Carl Laemmle was made with a grant from Steven Spielberg's Righteous Persons Foundation. Charles Grodin: Rebel with a Cause, his third film, is distributed by Virgil Films.
Website: https://charlesgrodinfilm.com
X (the film): https://x.com/ChuckGrodinFilm
ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST
Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns to first-time directors. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide.
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