Pebble Beach 2026

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John Summers is the motoring historian.
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He was a company car thrashing
technology sales rep that turned into
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a fairly inept sports bike rider.
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Hailing from California, he collects
cars and bikes built with plenty of
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cheap and fast, and not much reliable.
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On his show, he gets together with
various co-hosts to talk about new
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and old cars, driving, motorbikes,
motor racing, and motoring travel.
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Good day.
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Good morning.
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Good afternoon.
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It is John Summers,
the motoring historian.
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The dust is settling on Pebble Beach 2026.
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I guess it's probably settled for most
people already, 'cause it's, like, a
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couple of weeks ago now, but I always
take ages to do anything, don't I?
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I actually wrote my thoughts down ages
ago, but all right, Pebble Beach 2026.
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So the first thing that we should talk
about, or that I, I'd wanna talk about,
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is the car that won Best in Show.
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There's Duesenberg classes every
year at Pebble Beach, isn't there?
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And, and even if there are… isn't, like,
a specific Duesenberg class, they fit into
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other classes like American, you know,
Interwar Closed and American Interwar
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Open, and these other kind of classes.
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So rather like Ferrari, there's
always a massive presence.
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But, you know, this year was a
standout in terms of the number and
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caliber of Duesenbergs that they had.
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There's one car called the 20 Grand that
has a really interesting B pillar design.
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To contemporize, it had a
very modern kind of shape.
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I think it was even the car that
was used for the World's Fair or
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the Festival of Progress, whatever
they were calling it in 1933.
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You know, it was like a… It was o-
one of those, uh, kind of… 'Cause
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I think Gordon Buehrig even designed
it, if my memory serves correctly.
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But the point is that although most
people were buying cars that, you know,
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you could wear your top hat in, and,
you know, had front seats and back seats
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and basically walked and talked like a
Suburban might do now, there were designs
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that were different from that, right?
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So this 20 Grand is, uh, is one of those.
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Well, obviously, if you were all about
performance, you would do a short
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chassis, and you would do the big motor,
and you might do two-seat coupe And
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those are super impractical if you think
about the size of the car where, you
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know, you could have like seven seater
like a Suburban, not as three rows.
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It would have- they would have facing,
that's what the seven seats were like
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as well as the space in, in the front.
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In order to make it look more stylish,
you can have a coupe body style
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that only seats two people, the,
the two front seat passengers there.
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But even lighter and, you know,
more rakish in performance than
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that is for that to be a roadster,
for that vehicle to have no roof.
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Amongst all these long wheelbase
Duesenbergs, and if you listen to my
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prattling about the museum, you know,
a time when Bentley was winning Le
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Mans with cars with 200 horsepower,
Duesenberg Model J's had 265.
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The supercharged ones had 320.
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There were two short chassis,
sort of mega supercharged.
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I didn't drill into exactly how this
happened, but there were two 400
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horsepower short chassis SSJs built.
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Now, the Pebble blurb all talked about
how this was to distract from the
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fact that Duesenberg were going bust.
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The- these two cars were built,
one was black, one was sort
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of two-tone silvery gray.
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Uh, one went to Clark Gable,
the other went to Gary Cooper.
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They were both the Brad Pitt, Leonardo
DiCaprio of their day as it were.
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Now, the gray car I had some contact
with before Because after Gary Cooper,
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it passed to Briggs Cunningham, and from
Briggs Cunningham, it became part of,
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you know, Miles Collier's inheritance,
and hence the Revs collection.
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He parted with that car, uh, you know,
in order to free up the money to do
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fu- to do a project that was associated
with saving, preserving, encouraging
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the appreciation of, of old cars.
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In fact, I have subsequently felt that
the sale of the car was more a way to
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jolt collectors into thinking, "Wow, if
Miles Collier's selling, maybe I should
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think about downsizing what would happen
to my collection in future." You know, it
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was, I, I, I felt it was more than about
seeding funds for a project, although it
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was about seeding funds for a project.
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So that's the gray car.
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The black car, the Clark Gable car
that won the show, that apparently
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had come off a fresh restoration.
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I saw the car on the lawn, didn't
actually look too closely at it.
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I- this has never happened before in
all the years I've been to Pebble Beach.
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I'll, I'll hold up my hand and say in
years where I've been a docent, there
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have been more years than not where I
have not even seen the winning car on
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the lawn, let alone looked at it and
thought, "Oh, that car is going to win."
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And that's not least because the winning
car is often an interwar car, and I'm
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not really an interwar kind of guy.
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So if there's Vignale-bodied Ferraris
there, which there were lots of this year,
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that's where my attention tends to, uh,
to fall, you know, the post-war stuff.
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You know, and they often have classes
that are aimed at younger people, and
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being under the age of 65, I count as
a younger person for the Pebble crowd.
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So that means, you know, this year
they had some Japanese cars, including
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Mazda 787s and Tom's Toyotas and, and
that kind of stuff, and I'll talk about
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that a little more in a moment because
they had all that stuff out at Laguna,
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and we camped out at Laguna as well
and, and experienced the JDM Group C
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in all of its glory To return to the
lawn of Pebble itself and Duesenberg
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and this, uh, Clark Gable SSJ, I mean,
you've seen the pictures, you can judge
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whether or not you think it's elegant.
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You can judge whether or not you think
the black car's better than the gray car.
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You can judge whether you prefer
the wire wheels or the disc wheels.
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I think I prefer the wires.
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But if you squint a bit and you imagine
the black car on the wire wheels,
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like body color painted wire wheels,
I think right there you- you'd have…
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You know, for me, that's what
I would consider peak elegance.
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And, you know, in some ways, this
is an object lesson in what makes
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a Pebble Beach winner, right?
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The- the- this is a fresh, exquisite,
faultless restoration, and the car
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is the very best of the very best.
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It's Duesenberg, which is the best
of the American marks, and this is
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one of only two short chassis cars
that had that 400 horsepower, as
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well as the celebrity ownership.
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Now, I believe if you go to, I don't know
what chain of cinemas it is, but I was,
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uh… I went to the cinema with my family
to see the Brad Pitt Formula 1 movie
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when that came out, and I noticed when
in the restroom there was a photograph of
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Clark Gable sat in an Olympian-era car.
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Don't know if it was a Duesenberg,
but I did find myself thinking, I
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wonder if that car is the actual
car that won, uh, Pebble Beach.
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Quite an interesting thing, isn't it?
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The company's going bust and you give
the cars to these two celebrities.
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It does make you wonder how
much they drove them and- and
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what sort of happened with them.
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'Cause one of the things that Really
struck me with cars that were bought,
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that I wrote about for Gooding
when I was writing for Gooding.
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It really struck me that a lot of these
cars, like Ferrari BBs, I wrote about
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a series of those, where it seemed
like after they'd done, like, 3,000
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or 5,000 miles and were, like, three
or five years old, clearly something
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happened for the owners to be like,
"This is too annoying to drive in
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traffic," or, "I've had a little fender
bender in it," or, you know, "It keeps
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getting vapor locked on the 405,"
or, "Norm, you know, my left foot…"
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Okay, you know, something happens
for them, and, you know, you love the
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thing, so you don't sell it, so it sits.
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And, and then, you know, it's how
many times it changes hands and who
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decides to do the recommissioning.
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And generally, the less of that that's
happened, the better the cars seem to me
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to be when Gooding can be write about…
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I, I, I feel like I wrote about half
a dozen Boxers that seemed to have,
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like, this kind of history, but
then of course other cars as well.
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Maybe that's just the pattern
of those kind of cars.
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So my sense is, right, that's what
would've happened with Duesenbergs.
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And in fact, I was watching YouTube where
a fellow was showing a Packard that had
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been converted into a wrecker truck.
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In fact, it was a Tom Cotter, it was Barn
Find Hunter, and Tom skillfully drilled
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that little bit deeper to be like, "Wow,
it was only on the road, if this is a
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'29, you know, it was only on the road
so, or if this is a '32, it was only on
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the road seven years before the wrecker
body was put on it." And it… So that
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is to say this Gatsby era where they
flourished was extremely brief because the
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war came, and with it, the scrap drive.
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So a lot of these cars were
actually lost at that time.
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Y- those that weren't, you know, if
you think of post-war cars, th- this
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is why these cars were on used car
lots alongside the blobby guys of
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the 1940s at ridiculous prices in the
1950s, and of course led to the whole
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collector car movement from there.
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So the Thousand Horsepower Sunbeam gave
me a chance with my people on my tours
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to talk not just about the land speed
record, but to talk about Segrave as well.
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And as usual with these things, the cars
are awesome, but the, the people are, are
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equally awesome, and the stories around
the people are as remarkable as the design
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of the, as the design of the vehicles are.
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There were a couple of, of what I
would call Gotham City cars there.
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You did hear me right.
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They're like Gotham's, you know,
the city where Batman's from.
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It's all dark and
stylized, isn't it, right?
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Or stylized, it's always raining.
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Prime place along the lawn, you
know, in the, the first car in the
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row, so the natural car for you
to begin your tours if you're a
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docent doing a, a show field tour.
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The place where I met my son, both of
us sitting rather tiredly looking at
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this actual car, the round door Rolls.
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Google it up.
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It's in the Petersen Museum.
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Now cleverly, Pebble had done this
cl- And this is something, right,
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that if you d- have never been to
Pebble, you, you won't appreciate it.
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But it's really one of the things I enjoy
the most about Pebble, is the way they
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do juxtaposition of the class, right?
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So, so this Round Door Rolls
was in the streamlining class.
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Next to streamlining, they had moved
out onto aerodynamics and aerodynamic
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experiments, and they had the Batcars
of the 1950s and the two naughty Blue
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Ray cars, which we had in the Blackhawk.
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And those cars are not for driving.
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Those cars are for looking at.
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They always were for looking at.
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They're really interesting culturally
about, you know, where the companies were.
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It's about the past, it's about
the fut- It's really, uh, um…
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So, and look, aerodynamics is
partly done with wind tunnels.
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The Japanese cars and, you know,
the 787 and Le Mans cars were, were
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there as well representing downforce.
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So you had streamlining, that looks
fast, giving way to aerodynamics.
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We maybe worked in a wind tunnel giving
way to what's actually gonna get us
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down Mulsanne fastest, but still give
us good downforce around the kink, and
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still give us good downforce around
Indianapolis because, you know, that
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story was, was told right there.
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So this Rolls has a round door.
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That is the distinctive feature of it.
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But actually I think almost more
distinctive is the giant grill.
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'Cause you've probably heard me say
before, and you're probably aware,
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that these interwar Olympian cars, you
bought the engine and the chassis and
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then somebody else did the body for you.
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Well, that meant if you were gonna
have brand recognition, if you were
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Volvo or Mas- uh, not Volvo, if you
were Bentley or Duesenberg or Marmon
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and you… Or actually that's a bad
example 'cause they sort of did in-house.
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But, uh, generally speaking, the
grill and the front of the car was
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what was recognizable, and then a
local coach builder would do the body.
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So the, the coach builder is
often somebody who built coaches
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for the family buying the car
for generations before, right?
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So, uh, Italian car is gonna have,
likely have an Italian body unless
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it was imported to England, in which
case it might have a British body on
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it, leading to some really interesting
combinations of engines and, and
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bodies and, and all this kind of thing.
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So the grill shape is
sacred though, right?
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'Cause that's how you're
gonna recognize the car.
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Like, you know, you recognize a Packard
now 'cause it has the fluted grill.
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You recognize a Duesenberg 'cause
it has the mustache bumper and, you
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know, the headlights and the grill.
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That's the, the signature
look if, if you will.
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The Round Door Rolls has
a custom grill on it.
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It's a Rolls-Royce grill,
but it's like leaned back.
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It's as if the ZZ Top Eliminator hot
rod and a normal Rolls-Royce had a baby.
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Like, it's got this big lean back grill.
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It's got this massive high hood line.
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Hans, one of the other docent at the
Petersen as well, and I have to say, uh,
212
00:13:54,553 --> 00:13:56,352
yeah, Hans Kraakee is the guy's name.
213
00:13:56,436 --> 00:13:59,107
What a well-informed individual.
214
00:13:59,108 --> 00:14:01,058
I learn so much from him every time.
215
00:14:01,059 --> 00:14:04,044
He told me in period when they used
to drive it around, he used to put
216
00:14:04,056 --> 00:14:08,522
seat cushions on the seat because
the cowl's so high that it's really
217
00:14:08,522 --> 00:14:10,723
hard to see out, which I can believe.
218
00:14:10,777 --> 00:14:15,420
So the car's a 1925, and if you
Google up like 1925 Rolls-Royce,
219
00:14:15,586 --> 00:14:20,503
you can see why the, the lady who
owned it, and it was a, a, a lady…
220
00:14:20,558 --> 00:14:23,981
I, I don't know if it got in a wreck
or if the body got tired or if she
221
00:14:23,981 --> 00:14:29,092
bought it secondhand, but the decision
to have this body put on this pretty
222
00:14:29,101 --> 00:14:36,060
staid-looking but quality mid-'20s British
car, what a awesome piece of design.
223
00:14:36,127 --> 00:14:38,663
So Google it up if you don't
know it, the Round Door Rolls.
224
00:14:38,805 --> 00:14:42,447
Now, the other Gotham City
car that was, was on the lawn
225
00:14:42,449 --> 00:14:44,712
there was the Phantom Corsair.
226
00:14:45,150 --> 00:14:46,325
There's a Hot Wheels of it.
227
00:14:46,567 --> 00:14:49,742
It's a weirdly proportioned
thing, a weird-looking car.
228
00:14:49,973 --> 00:14:51,430
Not gonna try and describe it.
229
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:52,102
Google it up.
230
00:14:52,116 --> 00:14:54,231
Like, it's just full
Go- full-on Gotham City.
231
00:14:54,319 --> 00:14:57,333
The Heinz heir financed it.
232
00:14:57,432 --> 00:14:58,476
It's Heinz money.
233
00:14:58,848 --> 00:15:02,256
You know, I… Some of the other docents
were like, "Oh, you know, paid for with
234
00:15:02,274 --> 00:15:05,117
ketchup." I wonder, didn't they do beans?
235
00:15:05,154 --> 00:15:07,570
Didn't they do canned
soup as well, I wonder?
236
00:15:07,704 --> 00:15:09,842
I wonder what did mostly finance it.
237
00:15:09,896 --> 00:15:11,400
It appeared in movies.
238
00:15:11,401 --> 00:15:12,769
There were movies made about it.
239
00:15:12,792 --> 00:15:16,279
It does look rather sinister,
but it's all about the front, and
240
00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,189
the back is a little bit less,
um, impressive looking, you know?
241
00:15:20,271 --> 00:15:23,532
When it's driving away, it just looks like
an old black car, whereas from the front
242
00:15:23,541 --> 00:15:29,472
it has a real sort of, uh, sinisterness
about it even, uh, even today.
243
00:15:29,472 --> 00:15:32,676
I saw it on the lawn quite early in
the morning, kind of in the mist a bit,
244
00:15:32,686 --> 00:15:37,277
and, you know, it looked pretty Gotham
City and, you know, you could see, uh,
245
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:42,555
you know, goth musicians from the '80s
like Andrew Eldritch or The Mission or
246
00:15:42,573 --> 00:15:44,093
somebody like that getting out of it.
247
00:15:44,097 --> 00:15:46,685
It had that kind of,
uh, atmosphere about it.
248
00:15:46,917 --> 00:15:49,204
The Phantom Corsair.
249
00:15:52,349 --> 00:15:57,518
In advance, I was very excited to
see, uh, there was an Alfa 2900B.
250
00:15:57,717 --> 00:15:59,919
I think there are only three chassis.
251
00:16:00,272 --> 00:16:04,901
Miles Collier, the Napoli,
Naples, the Revs people have one.
252
00:16:05,140 --> 00:16:08,155
Believe Ralph Lauren has one.
253
00:16:08,636 --> 00:16:14,852
I thought they were all open
wire wheel Mille Miglia monsters.
254
00:16:15,296 --> 00:16:17,608
This one in the show was gray.
255
00:16:17,647 --> 00:16:19,309
It had a coupe body on it.
256
00:16:19,321 --> 00:16:22,150
It had weird spats on it.
257
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:23,851
I didn't look at the car properly.
258
00:16:23,992 --> 00:16:25,273
There may be more than three.
259
00:16:25,401 --> 00:16:27,199
I might be completely wrong.
260
00:16:27,510 --> 00:16:32,233
So that was a car that I thought might
win, but when I actually looked at it,
261
00:16:32,242 --> 00:16:36,233
it just… Italian design, sometimes
it really works, sometimes it doesn't.
262
00:16:36,612 --> 00:16:45,319
There was a… In the Vignale class,
there was a little red etcetera.
263
00:16:45,394 --> 00:16:49,193
I can't even remember exactly what
it was, like Siata, Moretti, one of
264
00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:52,984
those, like a Stanguellini, you know,
one of those, like, little Italian
265
00:16:52,984 --> 00:16:55,511
marks around in the '50s and '60s.
266
00:16:55,766 --> 00:16:59,171
I will maybe use this car as
a thumbnail because it was
267
00:16:59,173 --> 00:17:00,979
such an awesome little thing.
268
00:17:01,190 --> 00:17:06,882
I stood with my son next to it saying
this would be the most elegant car in
269
00:17:06,883 --> 00:17:08,969
the show, in my opinion, were it bigger.
270
00:17:09,201 --> 00:17:15,663
Isn't it weird that being big like a
Duesenberg is elegant if you carry it off
271
00:17:15,673 --> 00:17:20,812
properly, whereas being small like this is
always kind of small and is always less?
272
00:17:20,812 --> 00:17:24,661
And it's really weird that
size, size is important.
273
00:17:24,668 --> 00:17:25,668
Size matters.
274
00:17:25,917 --> 00:17:30,605
Well, there is a newsletter, Sports
Car Digest I think it's called.
275
00:17:30,746 --> 00:17:37,610
The writer in that highlighted the car
in the class next to my little red guy,
276
00:17:37,831 --> 00:17:45,192
a blue car with, I thought, the most
overstated, silly, filigree design.
277
00:17:45,199 --> 00:17:50,023
Like, all of the gee-gaws that Vignale
does, which some of which work, some
278
00:17:50,023 --> 00:17:54,361
of which don't It had all of them
and none of them worked on that car.
279
00:17:54,361 --> 00:17:56,545
The one next to it, the red one, I loved.
280
00:17:56,670 --> 00:18:00,650
Sports car guy dress guy, he had
photographed the blue car with my
281
00:18:00,650 --> 00:18:01,925
little red one in the background.
282
00:18:02,017 --> 00:18:03,258
Like, my car was…
283
00:18:03,258 --> 00:18:05,285
That was just like cannon
fodder in the background.
284
00:18:05,461 --> 00:18:10,881
He was commenting on how awesome the blue
car was, and that is what's so special
285
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:13,939
about the Pebble Beach experience.
286
00:18:16,355 --> 00:18:21,745
So I mentioned there were the Japanese
cars, the rotary Mazdas and, and Toyotas.
287
00:18:22,015 --> 00:18:23,356
Well deserved.
288
00:18:23,774 --> 00:18:28,618
Fact of the matter is this is the
second or third year that I've camped
289
00:18:29,016 --> 00:18:37,488
at Laguna Seca, and the Group C cars
represent one of the very best spectacles.
290
00:18:37,841 --> 00:18:39,067
It's the shape of them.
291
00:18:39,094 --> 00:18:40,198
It's the noise.
292
00:18:40,236 --> 00:18:41,849
Again, it's the size.
293
00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:43,443
They have a presence about them.
294
00:18:43,443 --> 00:18:49,332
They're quite big cars and, you
know, my son is there, he's 12 now,
295
00:18:49,333 --> 00:18:53,179
he's there with two other lads the
same age, and they have the same
296
00:18:53,179 --> 00:18:56,407
sort of visceral reaction to them.
297
00:18:56,908 --> 00:19:05,073
I can't underline enough how people
at Laguna Seca do not know what it
298
00:19:05,075 --> 00:19:08,359
took to win Le Mans in the 1980s.
299
00:19:08,654 --> 00:19:14,046
They don't know that Martin
Brundle won Le Mans in that era.
300
00:19:14,332 --> 00:19:17,882
They maybe don't even know
that that orange and green
301
00:19:17,883 --> 00:19:21,644
Mazda has a four-rotor engine.
302
00:19:22,147 --> 00:19:26,232
But they're all in that place
that I was in reading Motorsport
303
00:19:26,232 --> 00:19:30,921
Magazine in the 1980s because
there was no Group C on the TV.
304
00:19:30,921 --> 00:19:33,012
There was Formula 1
and there was rallying.
305
00:19:33,065 --> 00:19:38,453
There was no Group C on TV, so
Group C reached me through reading.
306
00:19:38,836 --> 00:19:42,749
You, you just looked at the statistics and
you looked at the lap speed and you looked
307
00:19:42,749 --> 00:19:47,490
at the top speed and you looked at the
pictures of the cars, the still pictures
308
00:19:47,492 --> 00:19:54,994
of the cars, and that was enough for me to
feel what an incredible spectacle it was.
309
00:19:55,729 --> 00:19:57,349
So what am I saying?
310
00:19:57,678 --> 00:20:04,824
I'm saying that the legend is only
growing because people now, youngins,
311
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,291
are seeing these cars and then having the
same kind of digging back into the past
312
00:20:10,291 --> 00:20:13,293
experience that I had reading Motorsport.
313
00:20:13,572 --> 00:20:16,623
For them, it's this looking
back through the past.
314
00:20:16,901 --> 00:20:21,762
Now, the producer, Eric, the producer,
listening in and editing my every
315
00:20:21,762 --> 00:20:25,063
word here, you know, he and I
have talked about rallying before.
316
00:20:25,082 --> 00:20:27,433
Both of us share a passion for rallying.
317
00:20:27,492 --> 00:20:32,765
I, of course, with my following of, of
Senna's career, followed the turbo era
318
00:20:32,765 --> 00:20:36,994
in, in Formula 1 and, you know, as I
just said, through Motorsport, I, I read
319
00:20:36,994 --> 00:20:42,248
about and, and learned about, uh, Group
C somewhat as well, or, although less.
320
00:20:42,502 --> 00:20:46,684
Eric feels like Group C may well
have been the craziest of the three.
321
00:20:46,783 --> 00:20:47,699
I'm not sure.
322
00:20:48,008 --> 00:20:55,506
I do think that given they used the
Nordschleife Given they used Spa in
323
00:20:55,506 --> 00:21:01,024
its current form, not the old circuit,
I do feel like, and given with all
324
00:21:01,024 --> 00:21:04,972
of these Group C cars, and this is
what I said to people on the lawn at
325
00:21:04,975 --> 00:21:09,886
Pebble Beach, is, is, you know, you
have to imagine the 240 miles an hour.
326
00:21:09,886 --> 00:21:12,253
I gave them the Martin Brundle story.
327
00:21:12,610 --> 00:21:15,976
And then I said to them, look at
where your feet are going to be.
328
00:21:16,264 --> 00:21:20,607
And Eric, I stole your line from, uh,
when we were at Hillsborough, when we
329
00:21:20,607 --> 00:21:22,702
worked the Hillsborough Encore together.
330
00:21:22,702 --> 00:21:23,448
I stole your line.
331
00:21:23,456 --> 00:21:25,067
Look at where your feet are.
332
00:21:25,067 --> 00:21:27,991
Your feet are going to be
in front of the axle line.
333
00:21:28,275 --> 00:21:29,297
And what is there?
334
00:21:29,646 --> 00:21:33,175
A bit of fiberglass, bit of tube
frame, brake master cylinder,
335
00:21:33,645 --> 00:21:38,922
your feet and the barrier if you
make any kind of mistake at all.
336
00:21:38,935 --> 00:21:41,858
So that's not lost on these kids.
337
00:21:41,858 --> 00:21:46,044
So the spectacle of Group
C is absolutely incredible.
338
00:21:46,105 --> 00:21:50,024
And to bring that to the lawn at
Pebble Beach and to put it alongside
339
00:21:50,024 --> 00:21:56,317
the bat cars, aerodynamic study, the
Nardi Blu-ray, the round door Rolls,
340
00:21:56,557 --> 00:22:02,045
uh, you know, Century of Progress,
Gordon Buehrig, 20 grand Duesenberg.
341
00:22:02,212 --> 00:22:06,805
That row this year along the
ocean there told an awesome story
342
00:22:06,842 --> 00:22:08,308
in a really interesting way.
343
00:22:08,317 --> 00:22:10,866
It connected cars together
in a really interesting way.
344
00:22:10,866 --> 00:22:17,094
And of course, as a connoisseur of
cars, it's, it's great to see the
345
00:22:17,099 --> 00:22:19,567
story told in a slightly different way.
346
00:22:19,715 --> 00:22:20,393
That's what I'm saying.
347
00:22:23,261 --> 00:22:26,286
Well, what does that have to do
with Pebble Beach, you're thinking.
348
00:22:26,607 --> 00:22:31,528
This, dear listener, or one of you that's
stayed with me this long, there were
349
00:22:31,581 --> 00:22:33,746
two XJRs on the lawn at Pebble Beach.
350
00:22:33,982 --> 00:22:35,389
Two, not one, two.
351
00:22:35,685 --> 00:22:40,430
In keeping with this theme of like royal
cars, they had a Lady Diana Spencer
352
00:22:40,449 --> 00:22:44,467
one, which brings us onto the other
car on the lawn at Pebble Beach, uh,
353
00:22:44,467 --> 00:22:48,362
which is the Bob Tullius IMSA or SCCA.
354
00:22:48,417 --> 00:22:55,270
It raced in either way a five-speed
stick, stripped out, caged XJS,
355
00:22:55,292 --> 00:22:58,822
which next to… So there was this
SC on the lawn, did I say that,
356
00:22:58,834 --> 00:23:01,303
that was built for, uh, Lady Diana.
357
00:23:01,928 --> 00:23:04,808
She had like a pre-production SC.
358
00:23:05,072 --> 00:23:07,857
It also had the American
quad headlight nose in it.
359
00:23:07,869 --> 00:23:12,442
So that was, uh, was interesting,
but it's like a C or E plater, that
360
00:23:12,446 --> 00:23:14,556
kind of, of era if you're a Brit.
361
00:23:14,593 --> 00:23:17,112
That's the registration
plate that it had on it.
362
00:23:17,123 --> 00:23:23,194
So the Lady Di XJS and the Bob
Tullius SCCA race car that was all
363
00:23:23,199 --> 00:23:26,025
kinds of, uh, side piped awesomeness.
364
00:23:26,274 --> 00:23:33,368
It set me surfing people who can turn
the Jaguar V12 from a sort of docile
365
00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:37,390
pussycat into a Le Mans screaming beast.
366
00:23:37,442 --> 00:23:43,408
They are out there, but the engines start
at $25,000, which is a little bit more
367
00:23:43,418 --> 00:23:46,232
than I was, uh, I was hoping to spend.
368
00:23:49,467 --> 00:23:52,774
Often my favorite car at Pebble
Beach is a preservation class
369
00:23:52,777 --> 00:23:54,778
car, and thus it was again.
370
00:23:54,913 --> 00:24:03,604
This year, uh, there was a Hispano-Suiza
sedan, just like a little sporting sedan.
371
00:24:04,128 --> 00:24:10,241
I don't know what it is about
the fact that the same car, had
372
00:24:10,242 --> 00:24:14,223
it been restored, would not have
been remarkable to me at all.
373
00:24:14,671 --> 00:24:22,343
The smell, the paint, the leather
The combination of all those
374
00:24:22,351 --> 00:24:29,084
things together, this is everything
that's awesome about old cars.
375
00:24:29,294 --> 00:24:34,740
Uh, that car restored is no
different to me really than
376
00:24:34,740 --> 00:24:36,296
my wife's nice new Cadillac.
377
00:24:36,547 --> 00:24:40,738
The design of it's different, maybe
craftsmanship of the materials is nice,
378
00:24:40,771 --> 00:24:45,901
but the unrestored, I'm not gonna say
time capsule because that's such a
379
00:24:46,344 --> 00:24:53,182
cliche, but the unrestored, the preserved
car that's now a century or so old,
380
00:24:53,305 --> 00:25:00,305
yeah, they are often my favorite car
at Pebble Beach each year because for
381
00:25:00,306 --> 00:25:06,815
me, they illustrate what Pebble Beach
stands for, which is the preservation
382
00:25:06,876 --> 00:25:09,946
and reverence of one's great design.
383
00:25:10,106 --> 00:25:16,215
So the preservation class Hispano-Suiza,
which I, I so loved, had so much
384
00:25:16,237 --> 00:25:20,881
more charisma for me than the 20
Grand Duesenberg, which is a car that
385
00:25:20,881 --> 00:25:22,206
I know well from the Black Hawks.
386
00:25:22,210 --> 00:25:26,427
So I'd looked at that car a lot before,
and I, I, I understand why people
387
00:25:26,433 --> 00:25:29,651
thought it was exciting at the time
if you compare it with other, but
388
00:25:29,668 --> 00:25:36,373
it, it just, it just, those kind of
jewelry box, Pebble Beach, Black Hawk
389
00:25:36,383 --> 00:25:40,871
Collection kind of restorations, they
just don't interest me as much as the
390
00:25:40,882 --> 00:25:43,260
car which has come all the way down.
391
00:25:43,674 --> 00:25:46,192
And I don't know why I wanna
keep talking about the smell.
392
00:25:46,484 --> 00:25:50,840
When I was with the Hispano,
a guy commented to me on how
393
00:25:51,006 --> 00:25:53,162
incredible the smell was.
394
00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:57,803
It's a little bit like these,
this realization that we've had
395
00:25:57,882 --> 00:26:01,787
as electrification and its, with
its silence comes, but we really
396
00:26:01,801 --> 00:26:04,410
did like the sound of racing cars.
397
00:26:04,553 --> 00:26:09,246
And at Laguna Seca, you know, listening
not just to the group C cars, but
398
00:26:09,276 --> 00:26:12,678
you know, just to cars racing,
there's, there's a sense of, you know,
399
00:26:12,679 --> 00:26:16,113
we're worshiping a wall of noise.
400
00:26:16,224 --> 00:26:21,012
There's something to look at, but
it's the wall of noise that is
401
00:26:21,051 --> 00:26:24,827
the dominating sensory experience.
402
00:26:25,379 --> 00:26:30,034
We sort of didn't realize that
even in the era of the V10s, which
403
00:26:30,151 --> 00:26:33,868
Formula 1 cars, which the youngins
feel like now is, you know, the
404
00:26:33,869 --> 00:26:36,277
greatest era, the screaming V10s.
405
00:26:36,277 --> 00:26:40,999
You know, it was, for sure it was part
of the spectacle, but you didn't feel
406
00:26:40,999 --> 00:26:46,275
like it was the dominant sense that you
were experiencing the event through.
407
00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:47,594
Does that make sense?
408
00:26:47,772 --> 00:26:50,603
It's not a visual experience.
409
00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:57,565
It's, uh, mostly an audible kind of
experience because they're so loud,
410
00:26:57,581 --> 00:27:03,311
because you hadn't expected them to
be so loud, because you can't quite
411
00:27:03,377 --> 00:27:06,558
process the deafening intensity of it.
412
00:27:06,558 --> 00:27:08,320
It is like a heavy metal show, isn't it?
413
00:27:08,327 --> 00:27:10,401
That's the whole, uh, point of it.
414
00:27:10,413 --> 00:27:19,834
So with these older cars, the smell and,
and with it then the visual patination
415
00:27:19,834 --> 00:27:21,863
that you can see and feel, right?
416
00:27:21,863 --> 00:27:26,802
You can feel that the leather's softer,
uh, that the steering wheel's worn.
417
00:27:27,034 --> 00:27:27,976
What am I trying to say?
418
00:27:27,992 --> 00:27:35,529
I'm trying to say that smell is
perhaps the, the dominant experience
419
00:27:35,687 --> 00:27:37,427
with, uh, the patina cars.
420
00:27:37,613 --> 00:27:41,543
My, my final thought would be that
as we move towards electrification
421
00:27:41,543 --> 00:27:48,893
and we see a generation raised only
knowing electrified cars, any kind
422
00:27:48,969 --> 00:27:55,444
of gas-powered vehicle is gonna have
so much theater about it because it's
423
00:27:55,469 --> 00:27:57,926
gonna have the noise and the smell.
424
00:27:58,247 --> 00:28:02,631
And I don't just mean, you know, the
beautiful Espada Suede interior smell.
425
00:28:02,631 --> 00:28:08,696
I mean the smell of, you know, my diesel
F-250 or, or the smell of two-stroke
426
00:28:08,696 --> 00:28:12,062
race fuel, which a lot of people will
talk about as being, you know, the
427
00:28:12,062 --> 00:28:15,050
single most evocative thing in motoring.
428
00:28:18,245 --> 00:28:24,155
So to move from the lawn at Pebble
Beach to the week as a whole.
429
00:28:24,315 --> 00:28:30,601
If you listen to the piece that
Eric and William Ferrari chat Ross
430
00:28:30,633 --> 00:28:35,810
did from Kissimmee, we talked a lot
there about how, you know, whilst
431
00:28:35,824 --> 00:28:40,596
the Bianco Speciale GTO that we'd
come to see hadn't underperformed,
432
00:28:40,629 --> 00:28:43,083
it also hadn't overperformed.
433
00:28:43,441 --> 00:28:47,656
Whereas some of the other cars that
we saw, the orange paint sample,
434
00:28:47,693 --> 00:28:53,491
Porsche 918, um, or especially the
yellow Bachman Ferrari Enzo, these
435
00:28:53,492 --> 00:29:00,306
were cars that just did, you know,
in the case of the, uh, 918, $2 or $3
436
00:29:00,306 --> 00:29:02,998
million more than it was valued at.
437
00:29:03,108 --> 00:29:04,297
Just stop and think about that.
438
00:29:04,473 --> 00:29:08,245
A hell of a lot of money for the
auction company to not even see coming.
439
00:29:08,322 --> 00:29:09,887
Hell of a lot of money, right?
440
00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:11,831
But this was nothing
compared to the Enzo, right?
441
00:29:11,853 --> 00:29:15,739
The Enzo was estimated, I think, at like
five or eight or something like that, and
442
00:29:15,739 --> 00:29:18,607
it got into the teams, like mid-teams.
443
00:29:18,762 --> 00:29:24,808
This is, you know, 2X, maybe even
3X what the, the estimate was, what
444
00:29:24,831 --> 00:29:29,137
the seller might have realistically
expected to get for that car.
445
00:29:29,268 --> 00:29:33,021
So we left Kissimmee being a bit
like, "What the fuck's going on?"
446
00:29:33,072 --> 00:29:36,978
And do you remember I did my piece
about, oh, the guard's changing.
447
00:29:36,978 --> 00:29:43,311
You know, soon we will see a McLaren
F1 overtake a Ferrari GTO in value.
448
00:29:43,492 --> 00:29:48,675
Well, Pebble coulda, shoulda, woulda
been that weekend because apparently,
449
00:29:48,724 --> 00:29:52,841
I'm no a McLaren guru, but my
understanding is that there were two
450
00:29:53,325 --> 00:29:57,170
short-tailed F95 GTRs or something.
451
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,703
One won Le Mans, the other
one went to Nick Mason.
452
00:29:59,704 --> 00:30:03,533
It was painted in pop art, and the
Nick Mason pop art car was up for
453
00:30:03,535 --> 00:30:09,065
sale, estimated at 35 million, which
I thought was, you know, that's the,
454
00:30:09,403 --> 00:30:16,524
uh, less than the white GTO, but
only just, and this previous record
455
00:30:16,856 --> 00:30:19,485
public auction price for a GTO.
456
00:30:19,578 --> 00:30:22,517
So I mean, Dave MacDonald paid
in the mid-'70s, we think, but
457
00:30:22,517 --> 00:30:23,941
that was a private transaction.
458
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,769
The previous GTO
transaction I think was 35.
459
00:30:27,936 --> 00:30:32,691
Nick Mason car does not break that
35 number, so we're not there yet.
460
00:30:32,956 --> 00:30:37,920
Something else might need to happen
before, you know, McLaren F1s flip
461
00:30:38,423 --> 00:30:41,392
Ferrari GTOs as the one to have.
462
00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:46,529
"But John," you're saying, "what
about the Ferrari Luce?" Yeah.
463
00:30:47,266 --> 00:30:51,261
What about- The Ferrari Luce.
464
00:30:51,735 --> 00:30:59,261
The guy that bought it made his money
in ophthalmic devices, so seeing and
465
00:30:59,271 --> 00:31:02,032
bringing light, it, it works, doesn't it?
466
00:31:02,249 --> 00:31:06,291
He's also a billionaire and
a philanthropist, so he gives
467
00:31:06,293 --> 00:31:07,656
a lot of money to charity.
468
00:31:07,663 --> 00:31:13,010
So 40 million, rather than just
going to a charity, getting this
469
00:31:13,074 --> 00:31:18,391
Ferrari in, in return, chassis number
001, I, I can see why he did it.
470
00:31:18,753 --> 00:31:20,744
He's somebody in the Ferrari world now.
471
00:31:20,959 --> 00:31:23,700
If he's just bought that McLaren
F1, what would he have been?
472
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:27,821
Just another rich-guy car collector,
whereas by doing this Ferrari
473
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:33,090
Luce, he's really put himself as
somebody in the Ferrari world.
474
00:31:33,396 --> 00:31:39,064
Now, I follow a little bit Doug Tabert,
that fellow that seems to buy and sell
475
00:31:39,064 --> 00:31:42,223
a lot of Porsche GT3s, a main fellow.
476
00:31:42,224 --> 00:31:44,505
He has a podcast called Switch Cars.
477
00:31:44,568 --> 00:31:48,027
Uh, he was saying on that apparently
Ferraris were the big winners
478
00:31:48,027 --> 00:31:50,057
in value for Monterey this year.
479
00:31:50,064 --> 00:31:56,715
So if that was the case, this bloke paying
$40 million for this Luce, I, I wouldn't
480
00:31:56,716 --> 00:32:00,611
do it, but I can understand why he did, is
my point, and I don't think it was a waste
481
00:32:00,612 --> 00:32:02,373
of money 'cause it went to charity, right?
482
00:32:03,383 --> 00:32:06,068
The car itself, they did have one there.
483
00:32:06,698 --> 00:32:11,880
I mean, it does have slightly more
elegant proportions than the Nissan
484
00:32:11,895 --> 00:32:15,951
Leaf, which, you know, the internet
has been comparing it to, but it
485
00:32:15,951 --> 00:32:17,547
definitely looks like a mouse, right?
486
00:32:17,549 --> 00:32:20,190
It… When they tell you the guy
from Apple designed it, you're like,
487
00:32:20,192 --> 00:32:24,166
"Oh, yeah." I mean, they had one
on the lawn at Casa Ferrari right
488
00:32:24,184 --> 00:32:27,057
alongside the Ferraris of, of the past.
489
00:32:27,057 --> 00:32:34,479
And, uh, not only, not only is it
not a narc Daytona, which I don't
490
00:32:34,479 --> 00:32:38,041
know if you can picture what animals
they are, but not only is it not
491
00:32:38,076 --> 00:32:46,895
that kind of aggressive shape, it's
not got the prettiness of a 206.
492
00:32:46,942 --> 00:32:53,807
It's not got the look at my
big dick of a Testarossa.
493
00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:57,856
Doesn't have any of, of that going on.
494
00:32:58,205 --> 00:32:59,079
Now I know, right?
495
00:32:59,094 --> 00:33:05,204
It's aimed at a different demographic,
and it's a glib to say that, but I
496
00:33:05,255 --> 00:33:11,480
think the statistic that you need to
think about with the Luce is that less
497
00:33:11,493 --> 00:33:17,795
than 1% of the people wealthy enough
to own a Ferrari have owned a Ferrari.
498
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:22,485
Do you think the same stat
is true for a Mercedes-Benz?
499
00:33:22,766 --> 00:33:25,296
I put it to you, absolutely not.
500
00:33:25,456 --> 00:33:31,347
So Ferrari can achieve a great
deal more market penetration,
501
00:33:31,347 --> 00:33:36,970
can't they, without diluting the
brand's exclusivity at all, right?
502
00:33:37,464 --> 00:33:42,028
That seems to be the thought, and the
thought seems to be that if Porsche
503
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:48,278
can basically be building SUVs and four
doors now, but can still have an image
504
00:33:48,278 --> 00:33:52,587
as a sports car maker and can still
churn out, you know, the odd Boxster
505
00:33:52,641 --> 00:34:00,046
and GT3 RS, then how's an Porsche
continue to be what Porsche always were?
506
00:34:00,425 --> 00:34:03,534
And f- you know, Ferrari are
a publicly traded company.
507
00:34:03,537 --> 00:34:06,781
They have to make money, and making
money means selling more cars, and
508
00:34:06,781 --> 00:34:10,758
there's tons of demand for the cars in
different parts of the world, but those
509
00:34:10,783 --> 00:34:13,739
people are not gonna buy Testarossas.
510
00:34:14,061 --> 00:34:18,649
And in today's day and age,
how can you even make something
511
00:34:18,688 --> 00:34:20,912
as cool as a Testarossa?
512
00:34:21,608 --> 00:34:25,132
Uh, whether it's the '50s thing or
the '80s thing, right, you just can't
513
00:34:25,141 --> 00:34:27,971
make those kind of, of vehicles now.
514
00:34:28,297 --> 00:34:31,239
Y- you know, from a legislation
perspective, you simply can't
515
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,453
build those kind of vehicles now.
516
00:34:32,718 --> 00:34:36,270
So I see that Ferrari had
to do something different.
517
00:34:36,782 --> 00:34:41,172
Although the notion of partnering
with Apple, 'cause I don't like Apple
518
00:34:41,172 --> 00:34:45,071
myself, partnering with Apple as, you
know, they do the best technology.
519
00:34:45,105 --> 00:34:46,940
We're living in an age of technology.
520
00:34:46,976 --> 00:34:51,621
How can we marry ourselves to… I
see the rationale of all of that,
521
00:34:51,672 --> 00:34:56,894
and I don't hate it because it is
so different that it's left room for
522
00:34:56,894 --> 00:34:59,656
them still to do really pure stuff.
523
00:34:59,945 --> 00:35:04,085
So I've made my peace with the Luce
is, uh, is I guess what I'm saying.
524
00:35:07,422 --> 00:35:13,542
So the record number, 760 million or
whatever for Pebble Week, that record
525
00:35:13,542 --> 00:35:21,345
number is carried by a small number
of cars at the very top of the market.
526
00:35:21,609 --> 00:35:23,248
It's the K-shaped economy, right?
527
00:35:23,402 --> 00:35:30,049
Now, what that looks like on the ground
at Pebble is more and more events, Tutto
528
00:35:30,075 --> 00:35:33,543
Bene, an Aston Martin exclusive party.
529
00:35:33,799 --> 00:35:37,491
Ollie trying to get into the Jaguar
stand only to find, you know,
530
00:35:37,495 --> 00:35:42,703
you had to be an invited Jaguar
VIP to get onto the Jaguar stand.
531
00:35:43,188 --> 00:35:47,499
So there's more of that kind of, you
know, late model people coming to Car
532
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:52,690
Week, but the kind of people who I
don't know, I, I sat in a three-star
533
00:35:52,690 --> 00:35:55,325
restaurant with my wife the other day.
534
00:35:55,326 --> 00:35:56,802
It was, like, a couple of months ago.
535
00:35:56,802 --> 00:35:57,466
It was a date.
536
00:35:57,548 --> 00:36:03,379
A tasting menu, two tech bros in their
30s sat next to us, and they were,
537
00:36:03,380 --> 00:36:05,235
like, having a, like, a let's catch up.
538
00:36:05,381 --> 00:36:09,264
But, you know, they were having this
m- m- tasting menu that was definitely
539
00:36:09,274 --> 00:36:13,976
costing more than $500 'cause they had
the wine pairing as, as well, right?
540
00:36:13,988 --> 00:36:16,427
So, you know, they're the same
thing as we had, and, and, you
541
00:36:16,429 --> 00:36:17,406
know, I know what the bill was.
542
00:36:17,594 --> 00:36:20,383
So I sat there thinking,
trying not to listen to the
543
00:36:20,391 --> 00:36:21,820
conversation, focus on my wife.
544
00:36:21,874 --> 00:36:25,442
But, you know, y- you always, uh… 'Cause
afterwards my wife and I talked, right?
545
00:36:25,442 --> 00:36:27,449
And she was like, "Yeah, I was
trying not to as well," but you're
546
00:36:27,449 --> 00:36:28,661
sort of trying to listen as well.
547
00:36:29,052 --> 00:36:33,169
And I knew when my wife went to the loo,
I vaguely tuned into their conversation,
548
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:39,089
and I thought, "I bet you they're gonna
talk about Porsches at some point." And,
549
00:36:39,089 --> 00:36:44,497
uh, sure enough, I, I would say not 10
minutes later, they had a conversation
550
00:36:44,502 --> 00:36:49,200
about, "You've got your GT3, um, RS
has come," that kind of, of thing.
551
00:36:49,470 --> 00:36:54,004
You know, you shouldn't be put
off a car because of the kind of
552
00:36:54,015 --> 00:36:55,205
people who own it, should you?
553
00:36:55,581 --> 00:36:55,937
You know?
554
00:36:56,005 --> 00:37:00,788
You shouldn't be put off the performance
bargain that C4 Corvettes are because
555
00:37:00,788 --> 00:37:02,875
they have the image that they have.
556
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,567
You shouldn't be But, oof, it can be hard.
557
00:37:06,727 --> 00:37:12,205
But look, right, the tech bros with
their GT3s, that is the K shape.
558
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,962
It's people who are further
up that curve who are driving
559
00:37:17,973 --> 00:37:21,915
the values of F40s, of F1s.
560
00:37:22,319 --> 00:37:30,926
I also think it's part of the generational
wealth shift that you read about on
561
00:37:30,926 --> 00:37:34,203
the, you know, financial… I was
gonna say pages of the newspaper,
562
00:37:34,205 --> 00:37:35,435
but you know, you know what I mean.
563
00:37:35,442 --> 00:37:36,714
Like, the financial.
564
00:37:37,163 --> 00:37:41,609
In your financial scrolling, you will
come across people talking about, you
565
00:37:41,609 --> 00:37:46,578
know, the great wealth transfer as
the boomers' generation passes, right?
566
00:37:46,578 --> 00:37:52,682
Well, I had heard that a couple of the
top wealth management firms, so firms that
567
00:37:52,731 --> 00:37:58,806
look after the money of the billionaires
and the hundreds of millionaires, these
568
00:37:58,808 --> 00:38:08,321
fellows have begun to allow inclusion of
cars, certain cars, if you're on the list.
569
00:38:08,636 --> 00:38:10,462
If your name's not on the
list, you're not coming in.
570
00:38:10,466 --> 00:38:13,056
Certain cars alongside art.
571
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:18,486
So just as in a diversified portfolio
you would have stocks, and shares,
572
00:38:18,486 --> 00:38:23,531
and property, you might have art,
a small proportion allocated to.
573
00:38:23,622 --> 00:38:29,424
And now cars, certain cars, blue-chip
collectibles, you know, 300SLs,
574
00:38:29,596 --> 00:38:32,017
Ferrari F40s are on that list.
575
00:38:32,022 --> 00:38:34,363
Now, I'm not sure if 300SLs
are on the list, right?
576
00:38:34,363 --> 00:38:37,701
Because that is last generation stuff.
577
00:38:38,368 --> 00:38:39,783
I'm sure the F40 is.
578
00:38:39,788 --> 00:38:41,839
I'm sure the 959 is.
579
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:42,623
You know, I'm sure.
580
00:38:43,042 --> 00:38:49,910
So that's the kind of stuff that
is truly investment grade, right?
581
00:38:49,980 --> 00:38:52,094
Literally investment grade now.
582
00:38:52,435 --> 00:38:56,441
So apparently this is what's
driving the, the, the price boom.
583
00:38:56,643 --> 00:38:59,939
So the flip of that is what,
what are the bargains out there?
584
00:38:59,939 --> 00:39:04,464
Well, the statistics are that, you
know, muscle stuff, '50s stuff,
585
00:39:05,102 --> 00:39:09,046
muscle stuff's kind of flat and,
you know, '50s stuff, '30s stuff
586
00:39:09,359 --> 00:39:11,450
is really going down a little bit.
587
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,125
And I've heard two or
three people say that.
588
00:39:14,201 --> 00:39:18,071
Uh, you see that in… You know, one
of the other Pebble Dosens was talking
589
00:39:18,071 --> 00:39:21,881
about trying to get rid of a couple
of '20s cars that he's got and, you
590
00:39:21,883 --> 00:39:24,323
know, there's just no interest in them.
591
00:39:24,323 --> 00:39:27,461
And you, you sit there thinking,
you know, if you were gonna get
592
00:39:27,471 --> 00:39:31,253
this kind of car, this is the bloke
to get it from But I just don't
593
00:39:31,253 --> 00:39:33,041
care about Model T Fords, you know?
594
00:39:33,041 --> 00:39:38,433
I d- y- I mean, it is faintly
interesting, but they're just so hard
595
00:39:38,498 --> 00:39:41,655
to use because of that low top speed.
596
00:39:41,676 --> 00:39:45,339
And, you know, if you've got your
own estate to drive around, maybe.
597
00:39:45,339 --> 00:39:50,783
But, I mean, yeah, they're just not
practical, and I've got too much
598
00:39:50,785 --> 00:39:52,689
stuff that's not practical already.
599
00:39:52,891 --> 00:39:55,249
So I mentioned that we
were out at the track.
600
00:39:55,563 --> 00:40:02,405
There was a e- exhibit of Japanese
motorsport heritage, Formula 1 cars,
601
00:40:02,610 --> 00:40:05,894
but also a great collection of bikes.
602
00:40:06,339 --> 00:40:12,953
So I was, uh, you know, looking closely
at Nicky Hayden's RCV211 and there was
603
00:40:12,955 --> 00:40:16,255
a Mick Doohan two-stroke guy there.
604
00:40:16,255 --> 00:40:20,854
And, and so I was focused on that
when I noticed Kenny Roberts and
605
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:23,398
Eddie Lawson just there chatting.
606
00:40:23,779 --> 00:40:28,457
Being me, I didn't be like, "Ooh, can I
have an, uh, autograph?" Didn't do that.
607
00:40:28,528 --> 00:40:31,100
Stood, like, respectfully, uh, off.
608
00:40:31,192 --> 00:40:33,735
They were chatting with another
guy, and he was asking them a lot
609
00:40:33,735 --> 00:40:38,057
of questions, and they were asking
him about the nice Honda CB750 that
610
00:40:38,058 --> 00:40:40,311
he had, who I did not recognize.
611
00:40:40,342 --> 00:40:42,926
I recognized him, but
couldn't place his name.
612
00:40:43,247 --> 00:40:48,152
Well, later I realized it
was Jim Farley, CEO of Ford.
613
00:40:48,340 --> 00:40:53,165
So there's Farley, Kenny Roberts,
King Kenny Roberts, the guy that
614
00:40:53,261 --> 00:40:59,978
popularized the knee-down slide, foil
to Barry Sheene, and Eddie Lawson,
615
00:40:59,979 --> 00:41:03,767
who's known for those big Kawasakis,
who was like a MotoGP champion.
616
00:41:03,767 --> 00:41:09,582
So this is the era where the two-stroke
Grand Prix bikes produced such pr-
617
00:41:09,601 --> 00:41:13,468
made the power so brutally that
the only people who were able to
618
00:41:13,468 --> 00:41:17,209
ride them were people who'd grown
up riding two-stroke dirt bikes.
619
00:41:17,229 --> 00:41:20,898
So all the, like, smooth
European guys, hopeless.
620
00:41:20,925 --> 00:41:24,724
The guys that just rode it on the
back wheel, and when it broke away,
621
00:41:24,728 --> 00:41:27,893
they just bloody caught it, those
guys, they were the fast guys.
622
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:29,633
So Lawson was, was one of those.
623
00:41:29,677 --> 00:41:31,557
Um, others were like Randy Mamola.
624
00:41:31,613 --> 00:41:37,217
Also saw Wayne Rainey, and Wayne Rainey,
you know, had a sort of Senna-Prost kind
625
00:41:37,217 --> 00:41:42,031
of rivalry with Kevin Schwantz in the,
in the early '90s, contemporary with
626
00:41:42,033 --> 00:41:46,242
Prost and Senna in a super cool way,
riding these super cool two-stroke bikes.
627
00:41:46,245 --> 00:41:50,635
Um, unfortunately, if you don't know the
story, Rainey had a fall, was paralyzed
628
00:41:50,686 --> 00:41:55,079
and, you know, was in the wheelchair when
he was chatting there with, uh, with Jim
629
00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:58,438
Farley and Eddie Lawson and King Kenny.
630
00:41:58,729 --> 00:42:01,141
Now, that would be a cool
story in itself, wouldn't it?
631
00:42:01,238 --> 00:42:08,070
But as I'm stood there, Farley asks
Lawson "Did you ever ride that?"
632
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:15,435
And he's pointing at a flat track
Yamaha XS, but it's not like a 650
633
00:42:15,435 --> 00:42:20,156
with two cylinders, which is, uh,
you know, like 100 mile an hour bike.
634
00:42:20,518 --> 00:42:21,982
It's a four cylinder.
635
00:42:22,277 --> 00:42:25,651
And if you don't know flat
track, flat track is an oval.
636
00:42:26,222 --> 00:42:30,854
Uh, some of them a mile, some of them
half miles, but it was popular years ago.
637
00:42:30,930 --> 00:42:34,157
And it's kind of like speedway,
in the English sort of speedway,
638
00:42:34,158 --> 00:42:37,194
but on bigger tracks, where you're
fast on the straight, and then you
639
00:42:37,194 --> 00:42:39,176
just lean the bike over in a slide.
640
00:42:39,206 --> 00:42:43,681
You have like a metal shoe, and you're
gonna drag the inside foot on the dirt
641
00:42:43,702 --> 00:42:45,723
there as the back of the bike slides.
642
00:42:45,747 --> 00:42:49,774
If, if it sounds terrifying and
dangerous, you, you're absolutely right.
643
00:42:49,805 --> 00:42:53,316
There is a movie called On Any Sunday.
644
00:42:53,739 --> 00:42:57,279
If you've not seen it, it's
an absolute must-watch.
645
00:42:57,474 --> 00:43:04,120
It's all about motorcycling, but it's also
specifically about flat track, and the
646
00:43:04,162 --> 00:43:07,674
opening credits feature flat track riders.
647
00:43:08,106 --> 00:43:09,893
"Did you ever ride that bike?"
648
00:43:10,307 --> 00:43:12,067
Farley asks Lawson.
649
00:43:12,406 --> 00:43:18,877
Lawson grimaces and says, "Too fucking
dangerous for me." So I carry that thought
650
00:43:18,955 --> 00:43:26,617
back to camp, because back at camp is one
of my mates whose dad raced flat track,
651
00:43:26,843 --> 00:43:32,311
whose dad not only raced flat track, but
appears in the credits of On Any Sunday,
652
00:43:32,314 --> 00:43:34,715
in the opening credits, crashing, no less.
653
00:43:34,945 --> 00:43:38,751
Not just in the credits doing flat
track, but in the credits crashing.
654
00:43:38,993 --> 00:43:40,209
Bloke's still alive now.
655
00:43:40,558 --> 00:43:41,560
So I get back to camp.
656
00:43:41,844 --> 00:43:44,853
I tell Jason the story
I just recounted to you.
657
00:43:45,196 --> 00:43:48,878
So Jason's like, "Oh, I'll ask my dad
if he ever rode any of the four-cylinder
658
00:43:48,878 --> 00:43:52,740
ones." Back comes the reply, "There
were four-cylinder Hondas as well."
659
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,019
"Did you ever ride them?" asks Jason.
660
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,877
"I'm still alive, aren't
I?" comes the reply.
661
00:43:58,366 --> 00:43:58,619
Thank you.
662
00:43:58,619 --> 00:43:59,083
Drive through.
663
00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:13,836
This episode has been brought to you
by Grand Touring Motorsports as part
664
00:44:13,838 --> 00:44:15,490
of our Motoring Podcast Network.
665
00:44:15,681 --> 00:44:19,518
For more episodes like this, tune in each
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666
00:44:19,522 --> 00:44:23,203
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667
00:44:23,205 --> 00:44:25,661
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00:44:25,767 --> 00:44:28,297
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669
00:44:28,310 --> 00:44:32,077
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670
00:44:32,087 --> 00:44:36,087
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671
00:44:36,876 --> 00:44:39,651
Please note that the content,
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672
00:44:39,651 --> 00:44:43,153
expressed in this episode are those
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673
00:44:43,154 --> 00:44:44,711
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674
00:44:44,822 --> 00:44:48,321
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675
00:44:48,323 --> 00:44:52,454
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