Coinbase Accused Of Hiding $1 Billion In Thefts - The Bond Market Is Breaking

WEBVTT
1
00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:22.780
What if an exchange holding your Bitcoin covered
2
00:00:22.780 --> 00:00:25.860
up a billion dollars in hacks? Well, there
3
00:00:25.860 --> 00:00:29.140
is a very real allegation of exactly that,
4
00:00:29.140 --> 00:00:32.240
leveled at Coin right now and we're going
5
00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:35.300
to dig into exactly what's being accused and
6
00:00:35.300 --> 00:00:39.000
by whom. Furthermore, inflation numbers came in below
7
00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.580
expectation, but the bond markets, they did not
8
00:00:42.580 --> 00:00:45.500
react favorably with very good reason. We're going
9
00:00:45.500 --> 00:00:47.500
to dig into all this and plenty more
10
00:00:47.500 --> 00:00:49.460
with a special guest today too. I'm Ben
11
00:00:49.460 --> 00:01:00.180
with the BTC sessions. This is Bigcast. the
12
00:01:00.180 --> 00:01:02.460
issue is between the state and you. It
13
00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:03.520
can be a little bit of a warning
14
00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:06.640
sign. It gives you a tool to empower.
15
00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.960
That sounds like a utopia, my friend. It
16
00:01:08.960 --> 00:01:12.180
is. It's exactly a utopia. With Bitcoin, no
17
00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:21.120
one can take it from you. Gentlemen, welcome
18
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:26.080
to the show, including our technologically inept German
19
00:01:26.080 --> 00:01:31.100
friend here. Chris, welcome. How you, man? doing
20
00:01:31.100 --> 00:01:34.180
as good as my internet connection. Not better
21
00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:36.080
now, Chris, thank you. That's great now. Yeah,
22
00:01:36.080 --> 00:01:39.960
you're good. Yeah, it was, normally we're perfectly
23
00:01:39.960 --> 00:01:42.020
on time every single week, and this week
24
00:01:42.020 --> 00:01:45.020
we're super late specifically because of Chris. Technical
25
00:01:45.020 --> 00:01:47.400
difficulties is actually like a German joke. They
26
00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.280
like that in their culture, they think that's
27
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.980
funny. Like, can you imagine? I had this
28
00:01:50.980 --> 00:01:54.480
VPN on, so I couldn't have the screen.
29
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.960
Germans are not known for the punctuality. Like,
30
00:01:56.960 --> 00:02:00.160
I don't know what you're doing. No, no.
31
00:02:00.160 --> 00:02:03.500
Oh, Nick is in there, Ben. Yeah. So,
32
00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:06.080
gents, let's dive in. So it was a
33
00:02:06.080 --> 00:02:09.900
very brief and exciting bull run today. It's
34
00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:12.440
over, though. It's all done. Yeah, it's all
35
00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:16.780
done. No, we did tap and go a
36
00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:19.500
little bit above 85K for a bit. Came
37
00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:21.040
back down. We're now sitting in the high
38
00:02:21.040 --> 00:02:25.940
83s. And in around that time, 50 mil
39
00:02:25.940 --> 00:02:29.340
and shorts wiped out. So congrats, anybody who
40
00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:32.740
got their. ass handed to them, stupid, stupid,
41
00:02:32.740 --> 00:02:36.760
stupid games, stupid prizes. So anyways, outside of
42
00:02:36.760 --> 00:02:40.340
that, I really quick want to pivot here
43
00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:42.660
away from price and talk about these coin
44
00:02:42.660 --> 00:02:47.900
base allegations because damn, Ari Paul. Now, this
45
00:02:47.900 --> 00:02:49.800
guy's come across my purview of a handful
46
00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:54.500
of times. Block Tower, strobe VC. Anyways, he's
47
00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:56.580
been around, we'll say more of the crypto
48
00:02:56.580 --> 00:03:01.420
ecosystem, but he's, seems like a quasi respectable
49
00:03:01.420 --> 00:03:03.080
guy. I don't know a ton about him,
50
00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:05.380
but he's been around quite a bit. So,
51
00:03:05.380 --> 00:03:07.580
nonetheless. Yeah, people gave him money. Yeah, it's,
52
00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:10.180
and it's, so. That doesn't say much. Yeah,
53
00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:12.660
yeah, that's fair. But, but not like just
54
00:03:12.660 --> 00:03:15.980
a random name here. So this is in
55
00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:18.420
response to a prior thread where somebody was
56
00:03:18.420 --> 00:03:21.460
BSing about Coinbase, apparently. So there's this guy
57
00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:25.160
saying 1 .2 mil stolen from him. And
58
00:03:25.160 --> 00:03:28.540
you had Kobe responding, asking about it. And
59
00:03:28.540 --> 00:03:31.380
then this was later used to. some random
60
00:03:31.380 --> 00:03:34.060
token or whatever. But then we have Ari
61
00:03:34.060 --> 00:03:36.760
Paul jumping in here and he said, Coinbase
62
00:03:36.760 --> 00:03:40.540
lost 25 million of my firms a couple
63
00:03:40.540 --> 00:03:43.180
years ago. Turned out they were actually covering
64
00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:47.320
up a massive and repeated hacks. Still wouldn't
65
00:03:47.320 --> 00:03:49.400
return our money. We traced this to at
66
00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:52.360
least a dozen other effective firms and over
67
00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.780
$1 billion covered up. That's all I can
68
00:03:55.780 --> 00:03:59.060
say for now as multiple legal processes are
69
00:03:59.060 --> 00:04:00.820
still ongoing. I'm going to read through some
70
00:04:00.820 --> 00:04:02.760
more of this because there's... Wait, what's the
71
00:04:02.760 --> 00:04:04.940
community notes say just before we dig it
72
00:04:04.940 --> 00:04:07.020
into the rest of it? Community note just
73
00:04:07.020 --> 00:04:10.980
says that it's there's no, it's unverified. So
74
00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:14.640
these are allegations. So yeah, no independent evidence,
75
00:04:14.640 --> 00:04:16.660
which he said as much because there's legal
76
00:04:16.660 --> 00:04:19.420
proceedings going on. So there's nothing public yet.
77
00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:22.220
So he goes on to say, obviously this
78
00:04:22.220 --> 00:04:24.820
blew up more than he expected, said, I
79
00:04:24.820 --> 00:04:27.220
can't share proof yet, multiple legal processes, so
80
00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:30.840
and so forth. every word I've written is
81
00:04:30.840 --> 00:04:34.120
true. I have no ulterior motive, nor position,
82
00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:37.460
long, nor short Coinbase or related equity. I'm
83
00:04:37.460 --> 00:04:40.420
still heavily long crypto, so if anything, I'd
84
00:04:40.420 --> 00:04:43.160
be incentivized to help Coinbase cover this up,
85
00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.600
as many industry leading firms have for the
86
00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:47.860
good of the industry. But I won't do
87
00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:50.420
that. I also think of Coinbase as one
88
00:04:50.420 --> 00:04:52.380
of the better companies in the industry and
89
00:04:52.380 --> 00:04:54.720
have many friends there. No vendetta here. But
90
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.320
when the best companies in crypto are funneling
91
00:04:57.320 --> 00:05:00.700
billion. and customer assets to Lazarus Group and
92
00:05:00.700 --> 00:05:03.760
lying about it to investors, customers, regulators, and
93
00:05:03.760 --> 00:05:08.060
the Secret Service, Coinbase has represented to investors
94
00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:12.340
and customers, including pensioners doing official due diligence,
95
00:05:12.340 --> 00:05:14.760
that they were never hacked, at least as
96
00:05:14.760 --> 00:05:16.980
of two years ago last I checked. Not
97
00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:20.940
only is that radically false, Coinbase has shockingly
98
00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:25.780
extensive internal documentation of them knowingly misleading customers
99
00:05:25.780 --> 00:05:29.960
and investors about this. over time. I use
100
00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:33.120
the word misleading, but I'm being gentle. What
101
00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.700
is the legal term for a financial company
102
00:05:35.700 --> 00:05:39.800
inducing customers and investors to give them capital
103
00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:43.680
on the basis of deliberately false material financial
104
00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:48.860
representations? For Coinbase's legal team, I'm not going
105
00:05:48.860 --> 00:05:51.140
to dare, I'm not going to dare you
106
00:05:51.140 --> 00:05:54.120
to sue me again, but I'll say this.
107
00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:55.760
I would be in the, it would be
108
00:05:55.760 --> 00:05:58.920
in the interest of the industry. the world,
109
00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:00.780
but not your executives, for us to go
110
00:06:00.780 --> 00:06:03.520
through discovery and air all this out. I
111
00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:07.220
encourage you to assert this as liable so
112
00:06:07.220 --> 00:06:09.720
we can go through discovery and see if
113
00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.620
a single word of my writing is untruthful.
114
00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:14.560
And yeah, and then he goes on to
115
00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:16.860
say, sorry, that this played out slower than
116
00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:18.780
more people would like, but so on and
117
00:06:18.780 --> 00:06:22.800
so forth. So, damn. Ben, we should stop
118
00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:25.260
recommending that people leave their coins on exchanges.
119
00:06:25.260 --> 00:06:26.280
I don't think we can say that in
120
00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:30.160
good faith anymore. Amazing. I want to give
121
00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:31.960
the first word to Chris as our special
122
00:06:31.960 --> 00:06:34.760
guest. Chris, how do you feel about centralized
123
00:06:34.760 --> 00:06:40.620
exchanges? I love them. They have the greatest
124
00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:43.420
product market fit, apparently, because so many people
125
00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:45.400
keep using them. A lot of people went
126
00:06:45.400 --> 00:06:50.140
there back again on doing the years of
127
00:06:50.140 --> 00:06:52.600
work that we put in. Those are some
128
00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:56.180
wild allegations, but they do track with what
129
00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:59.000
I heard through the great one. the big
130
00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.560
cadodians that have been in recent past been
131
00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:04.620
hacked and they have self -insured and covered
132
00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:06.160
the funds and tried to sweep it under
133
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:09.500
the rug. So, yeah, if anybody tells you,
134
00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:11.660
your coins are more secure on Coinbase, I
135
00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:17.220
would not go that far. Bam. Yeah, I
136
00:07:17.220 --> 00:07:21.820
mean, I just, again, for Chris, to you
137
00:07:21.820 --> 00:07:24.080
to kind of bring up, again, the worst
138
00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:26.400
thing to happen to self -custy, I'd say
139
00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:29.200
in the history of Bitcoin, this. summer. There
140
00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:31.180
was a lot of people parroting the idea
141
00:07:31.180 --> 00:07:33.380
like, oh, well, you know, this is proof
142
00:07:33.380 --> 00:07:34.700
positive that you got to leave it to
143
00:07:34.700 --> 00:07:36.740
the professionals and everything. But when the professionals
144
00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:38.820
are effectively using the same shit as everybody
145
00:07:38.820 --> 00:07:41.580
else, it's like, you know, it's not like
146
00:07:41.580 --> 00:07:45.880
there's some sort of magic sauce or some
147
00:07:45.880 --> 00:07:50.300
sort of like proprietary technology that is inaccessible
148
00:07:50.300 --> 00:07:53.500
to the average person. There's obviously people that
149
00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:55.800
are more well versed than others at how
150
00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:57.580
to use these tools. And I I think
151
00:07:57.580 --> 00:08:02.180
it's important that people, you know, recognize that
152
00:08:02.180 --> 00:08:04.460
you do need to actually know how to
153
00:08:04.460 --> 00:08:06.880
use this stuff and continue to use it
154
00:08:06.880 --> 00:08:10.880
so that you're familiar. But I think it
155
00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:13.220
was a knee -jerk reaction for people to
156
00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:14.860
be like, I'll just, you know, go to
157
00:08:14.860 --> 00:08:17.980
the custodians. Because as we said, as we
158
00:08:17.980 --> 00:08:20.240
kind of have seen in the past, oftentimes
159
00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.320
you don't even realize something has happened until
160
00:08:22.320 --> 00:08:25.460
much later. And in this case, it might
161
00:08:25.460 --> 00:08:27.900
be years later that that. this stuff has
162
00:08:27.900 --> 00:08:31.900
just been papered over. And the darling, not
163
00:08:31.900 --> 00:08:34.420
amongst Bitcoins, but at the industry, everybody's using
164
00:08:34.420 --> 00:08:38.400
Coinbase custody for all these institutional products and
165
00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:40.940
things like that. Damn, that would be, that
166
00:08:40.940 --> 00:08:44.580
would be quite damaging, not just to individual
167
00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:47.900
bitcoins, but to the entire kind of institutional
168
00:08:47.900 --> 00:08:50.700
realm. So anybody else want to dive in
169
00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:52.960
here? Right. So just to clarify, they're saying,
170
00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.180
because you mentioned the Lazarus Group and hacks.
171
00:08:55.180 --> 00:08:57.800
So just like, you know, quick, quick deduction
172
00:08:57.800 --> 00:09:00.940
there. The Lazarus, he's alleging the Lazarus group
173
00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:04.480
hacked Coinbase multiple times, demanded ransom, which Coinbase
174
00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.560
apparently paid, and then never disclosed to anyone.
175
00:09:08.560 --> 00:09:11.540
Am I, am I getting that right? Seems,
176
00:09:11.540 --> 00:09:13.740
it seems like that's what he's insinuating. He
177
00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:15.160
didn't go into a ton of detail there,
178
00:09:15.160 --> 00:09:19.100
but, I mean, like, that wouldn't be, that
179
00:09:19.100 --> 00:09:22.800
wouldn't be surprising, right? Like, that's not something
180
00:09:22.800 --> 00:09:24.300
where I'd be like, I'm shocked that the
181
00:09:24.300 --> 00:09:27.320
Lazarus group managed to, you know, target and
182
00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:31.260
hack a crypto exchange, given that it's just
183
00:09:31.260 --> 00:09:34.080
a massive, massive amount of capital they're potentially
184
00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.080
chasing, right? So if even they're able to
185
00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:38.320
get, get their foot in the door somewhere,
186
00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:39.880
lock up some of CoinBasis Systems, they don't
187
00:09:39.880 --> 00:09:42.120
actually have to, it sounds like if it
188
00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:45.200
sounds like there was a ransom paid or
189
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.500
ransoms paid, just again, not exactly sure. Because
190
00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:50.540
if they, they clearly didn't get access to,
191
00:09:50.540 --> 00:09:54.480
like, actually control Coinbase's Bitcoin. and whatever other
192
00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.680
shit coins they have, or Coinbase would have
193
00:09:56.680 --> 00:09:58.920
absolutely none. And this would be like a
194
00:09:58.920 --> 00:10:01.840
much bigger problem, right? Or maybe that is
195
00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.200
the case. And holy fuck. But I don't
196
00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:06.280
think it is. It sounds like they probably
197
00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:08.820
tied up some of their internal systems with
198
00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:11.060
some, you know, stupid social engineering attack that
199
00:10:11.060 --> 00:10:13.480
only one person on their Coinbase support team
200
00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:15.880
had to fall for. And then they managed
201
00:10:15.880 --> 00:10:20.440
to extract some ransom from them. Boy, I
202
00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.620
mean, to Chris, this point, like, it is
203
00:10:24.620 --> 00:10:27.060
really unfortunate the timing of everything with people
204
00:10:27.060 --> 00:10:31.080
getting very horrifically wrecked by the whole cold
205
00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.220
card thing. And then, you know, the joke
206
00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:36.640
being like this sad, sad, sad joke. I'm
207
00:10:36.640 --> 00:10:38.600
not making light of it like Chris is.
208
00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:40.800
But like get your Bitcoin on exchanges, you
209
00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:42.820
know, like that that's like, okay, because apparently
210
00:10:42.820 --> 00:10:44.660
the most safe, secure solution that we thought
211
00:10:44.660 --> 00:10:47.000
we had is no longer that. So I
212
00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:48.820
guess we better do the exact opposite of
213
00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:50.640
what we've been preaching to everybody for a
214
00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:53.120
while. Man, the timing this is very important.
215
00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.380
rough because it's just like especially with all
216
00:10:55.380 --> 00:10:56.820
of the different data leaks that we saw
217
00:10:56.820 --> 00:10:59.700
out of treasur with you know their shipping
218
00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:01.980
partner whatever it was shipmunk or i forget
219
00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:04.000
what exactly it was that's it's yeah leaking
220
00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.640
a bunch of leaking a bunch of customer
221
00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:07.840
data like like i mean just like the
222
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:09.800
the sequence of things has not been good
223
00:11:09.800 --> 00:11:12.420
for self custody and again not that it's
224
00:11:12.420 --> 00:11:15.460
a problem with like the mechanism by which
225
00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:18.040
you engage in self -custody like the underlying
226
00:11:18.040 --> 00:11:20.980
mechanism it's these are again problems with over
227
00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:22.700
the This is a problem with like you
228
00:11:22.700 --> 00:11:25.700
still have trusted third parties, even when you're
229
00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:27.780
engaging in self -custody because you've got to
230
00:11:27.780 --> 00:11:29.420
trust the shipper to not leak all your
231
00:11:29.420 --> 00:11:31.340
data. You got to trust the hardware wallet
232
00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:34.660
manufacturer to actually have sufficient randomness, apparently, and
233
00:11:34.660 --> 00:11:37.460
sufficient entropy. There's still a lot of trust
234
00:11:37.460 --> 00:11:40.240
involved. The one I would say a white
235
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:42.360
pill out of all of this is that
236
00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:43.960
the stuff that the, like all the red
237
00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:45.760
teaming that's being done by the CEO of
238
00:11:45.760 --> 00:11:49.420
Bitcoin and others with his team of corporate
239
00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:52.320
red hat hackers underneath them, That gives me
240
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:53.420
a lot of hope because I think there's
241
00:11:53.420 --> 00:11:55.500
been an intense amount of hardening of the
242
00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:58.520
open source Bitcoin ecosystem that has accelerated at
243
00:11:58.520 --> 00:12:00.180
a far past faster pace than it would
244
00:12:00.180 --> 00:12:03.180
have otherwise. Bitcoin is very much low -hanging
245
00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:05.700
fruit, I think, for attackers and this ecosystem
246
00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:07.200
is because so much of it is open
247
00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.460
source. So necessarily, if you're going to start
248
00:12:09.460 --> 00:12:13.040
running, you know, codebases through LLMs, well, you're
249
00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:14.260
going to run the open source stuff through
250
00:12:14.260 --> 00:12:15.620
there instead of trying to hack in and
251
00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:17.940
find your way into proprietary codebases and then
252
00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:19.800
extract it out and then, you know, hack
253
00:12:19.800 --> 00:12:21.380
your way through it. So I think. that
254
00:12:21.380 --> 00:12:24.000
this is something that's, you know, Bitcoin and
255
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.240
the hacks around it. Not that this is
256
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:27.860
necessarily related to any of that. I don't
257
00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:29.700
know what the timeline for this is, but
258
00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:31.580
zooming out, this is sort of a canary
259
00:12:31.580 --> 00:12:33.360
in the coal mine for what the rest
260
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:35.080
of the entire world is going to be
261
00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:37.340
dealing with very soon. Like, you can't tell
262
00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:38.220
me that, I mean, the nice thing about
263
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:39.680
the banking system, like, the banking system is
264
00:12:39.680 --> 00:12:41.200
going to get hacked to shit. But the
265
00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:42.400
nice thing about the banking system is that
266
00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:44.000
it's all made up. So they can just,
267
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.440
like, it's okay, like, okay, somebody hacked a
268
00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.200
bunch of dollars. The dollars don't exist. We'll
269
00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:49.740
just delete them. Like, it's all good. Don't
270
00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:51.840
worry. Like, We'll get rid of them unless
271
00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:52.680
you get them all the way to the
272
00:12:52.680 --> 00:12:55.180
Caymans, in which case, you know, black box
273
00:12:55.180 --> 00:12:59.000
over there or the, or the Virgin Islands.
274
00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.400
But even J .P. Morgan Chase, Jeffrey Epstein's
275
00:13:01.400 --> 00:13:03.960
banker, is not, you know, totally free and
276
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:06.620
clear in the Virgin Islands. So, you know,
277
00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:09.520
I guess there's hope. I guess there's hope.
278
00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:15.120
Joey? Oh, man. Okay. A couple of things.
279
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.800
Number one, this gives you a little bit
280
00:13:17.800 --> 00:13:21.380
of insight into what the the high roller
281
00:13:21.380 --> 00:13:24.160
custody solution looks like a coinbase because presumably
282
00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:26.880
if you quote unquote lost your coins, you'd
283
00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:30.200
have to have like addresses and wallets that
284
00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.120
you could look at and go to and
285
00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.140
be able to visibly see. They'd have to
286
00:13:34.140 --> 00:13:35.800
give you some transparency on your funds if
287
00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:37.500
you made a deposit. They can't just intermingle
288
00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:38.760
your funds the same way they would on
289
00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:40.220
the retail side or probably even on the
290
00:13:40.220 --> 00:13:42.660
Coinbase pro side, to be honest with you.
291
00:13:42.660 --> 00:13:43.280
So it gives you a little bit of
292
00:13:43.280 --> 00:13:46.300
insight there, which is important because one thing
293
00:13:46.300 --> 00:13:49.820
we've heard from guys like Sailor, is that
294
00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:51.960
he, you know, doesn't want to do his
295
00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.920
proof of custody or proof of reserves, but
296
00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:55.800
I think he uses Coinbase. So this tells
297
00:13:55.800 --> 00:13:57.160
me that he could do it fairly easily.
298
00:13:57.160 --> 00:13:59.880
I think he uses multiple. He does. I
299
00:13:59.880 --> 00:14:02.440
think it's primarily Coinbase custody and then I
300
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.880
know there's been two others before. I'm an
301
00:14:04.880 --> 00:14:06.400
MSTR bull. Sorry Walker, Walker. I don't want
302
00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:08.580
to affect our bags. I would prefer if
303
00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:10.560
Mike say I know a little bit, a
304
00:14:10.560 --> 00:14:12.880
little bit of his free time to do
305
00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:15.220
a proof of reserves. And it seems like
306
00:14:15.220 --> 00:14:17.100
Coinbase would do it fairly easily, given what
307
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:18.880
are you saying. And so I, that's something
308
00:14:18.880 --> 00:14:20.020
to think about. just sort of on the
309
00:14:20.020 --> 00:14:23.020
side. The bigger problem here, I think, is
310
00:14:23.020 --> 00:14:25.680
that you guys talked a lot about like
311
00:14:25.680 --> 00:14:29.360
coins on exchanges. How about the ETFs? Coinbase
312
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:34.100
holds 84 % of the ETFs. 84%. So
313
00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:37.500
if they are vulnerable at some level, then
314
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:39.880
all of a sudden, all these advisors who
315
00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:42.360
have been saying, forget about self -custody, you
316
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:43.420
don't want to have to carry a thumb
317
00:14:43.420 --> 00:14:45.920
drive, just buy iBit, buy, you know, whatever
318
00:14:45.920 --> 00:14:48.200
other product is out there and let us
319
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:49.240
man, or let us, let us, or let
320
00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.000
us, someone else managed a custody, it's professional
321
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.760
grade, it's this, it's that's insured. Maybe not,
322
00:14:54.760 --> 00:14:56.560
actually. It would be what I would say
323
00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:59.180
to these guys now. And then there's also
324
00:14:59.180 --> 00:15:02.860
this question, I think, of, like, what is
325
00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:05.600
meant by your, you know, like your Bitcoin
326
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:10.140
is secure. And this might be unpopular, okay?
327
00:15:10.140 --> 00:15:13.220
But, you know, if Coinbase has a war
328
00:15:13.220 --> 00:15:16.640
chest that they're not afraid to deploy to
329
00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:19.380
make people whole in the, in the, the
330
00:15:19.380 --> 00:15:21.240
instance or in the event that there is
331
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.540
a hack and coins are stolen. Can they
332
00:15:24.540 --> 00:15:28.060
say legally that that that Bitcoin is, you
333
00:15:28.060 --> 00:15:30.280
know, quote unquote intact? I don't know the
334
00:15:30.280 --> 00:15:32.700
ins and outs that legalese, but I would,
335
00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:33.960
my suspicion is that they would be able
336
00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:35.820
to say that because no one has actually
337
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.060
lost anything. Everyone is still as whole as
338
00:15:38.060 --> 00:15:40.120
they were the day before. And I don't
339
00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.000
know if that's fair or not, but it's
340
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.140
an example of, in my opinion anyway, how
341
00:15:44.140 --> 00:15:47.140
some of the laws around custody and security
342
00:15:47.140 --> 00:15:49.420
probably have not kept up with the speed
343
00:15:49.420 --> 00:15:52.440
the ecosystem is moving at. That's number one.
344
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.340
Number two is whether or not Coinbase has
345
00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:58.480
to disclose this as a material loss. At
346
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.880
25 million compared to, you know, whatever, they
347
00:16:00.880 --> 00:16:03.960
got 300 billion or something under management there,
348
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:06.820
that's certainly not material by any like numerical
349
00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:09.020
standard, whether or not it meets a legal
350
00:16:09.020 --> 00:16:10.980
definition of material and has to be shared
351
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.420
as a different story, which is why I
352
00:16:12.420 --> 00:16:14.260
think Ari is talking about the pensions and
353
00:16:14.260 --> 00:16:16.660
the misrepresentation that they gave the pensions about,
354
00:16:16.660 --> 00:16:18.960
you know, we haven't been hacked. There's being
355
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:20.620
hacked is not the same as having a
356
00:16:20.620 --> 00:16:23.140
material loss. And material loss, I think, is
357
00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:26.020
probably what the disclosures require. So is 25
358
00:16:26.020 --> 00:16:29.000
million of material loss? No. I'm not defending
359
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:31.960
Coinbase here. And actually, if you look at
360
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.020
Coinbase's history, it's a little bit spotty, right?
361
00:16:34.020 --> 00:16:37.260
Canadian Joey, MSTR bowling, Coinbase Defender. How big
362
00:16:37.260 --> 00:16:39.340
you Coinbase bag, Joey? It's bigger than my
363
00:16:39.340 --> 00:16:41.460
MSTR bag, to be honest with you. Yeah.
364
00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:44.020
So I'll just, I'll just say that Coinbase
365
00:16:44.020 --> 00:16:45.820
has a spotty history with this stuff, right?
366
00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:48.560
If you look back at 2025, they had
367
00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:52.240
employees leaking customer data. And it took them,
368
00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:54.280
I think, four or five months to tell
369
00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:55.900
people that that customer data was being leaked
370
00:16:55.900 --> 00:16:58.860
by their employees. In 2021, they had a
371
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:02.480
problem with people being drained via SMS spoofing.
372
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:03.680
And it took, I think, it's another four
373
00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:05.440
or five months to tell people then. So
374
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.560
it's not like these guys have been forthcoming
375
00:17:07.560 --> 00:17:10.700
when there's been problems on their side as
376
00:17:10.700 --> 00:17:12.160
far as security. Now, you can argue about
377
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:13.900
who's really at fault there. Like, you can't
378
00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:16.200
do much about shady employees. it's hard to
379
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.880
remedy people who respond to spoof SMS stuff,
380
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.140
but they still could have said something and
381
00:17:21.140 --> 00:17:23.100
they didn't. And so when Ari says that
382
00:17:23.100 --> 00:17:25.240
they haven't said anything about this either, it's
383
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.080
interesting. Now, I think Coinbase, like they've said
384
00:17:28.080 --> 00:17:31.140
today, today or yesterday, I don't know, or
385
00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:33.660
I guess it would be today, that they
386
00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:38.680
didn't lose this billion dollars. Like, okay, okay,
387
00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:40.520
but you didn't say that you didn't lose
388
00:17:40.520 --> 00:17:44.020
25 million dollars. And so that's what, that's
389
00:17:44.020 --> 00:17:45.640
what kind of has me like, Navixtap. navigating
390
00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:47.980
this. What does it mean, like, what is
391
00:17:47.980 --> 00:17:50.480
the law around what they can say? What
392
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.500
is the law around the definition of material
393
00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:55.860
loss? What is the law around security? Like,
394
00:17:55.860 --> 00:17:56.940
is it just being made whole or is
395
00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:59.060
it actually keeping his stuff? I don't know.
396
00:17:59.060 --> 00:18:00.520
I don't know any of that, to be
397
00:18:00.520 --> 00:18:01.960
honest with you. And I don't think anybody
398
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.580
does. And so it would be nice to
399
00:18:03.580 --> 00:18:05.720
hear from somebody not named Ari and not
400
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.380
named Brian about this and the sort of
401
00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:10.640
legal side of all this. Because everyone can
402
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.200
say all this stuff and it's perfectly sort
403
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.160
of above board and clean as far as
404
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:17.380
definitions, but it doesn't mean that there's not
405
00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:18.800
more to the story. And there will be
406
00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:20.060
more to this, for sure, because it's got
407
00:18:20.060 --> 00:18:23.020
a lot of traction in a hurry today.
408
00:18:23.020 --> 00:18:24.660
No, I completely agree. And it's interesting, the
409
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:26.160
material loss aspect that you bring up their
410
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.280
joy. Because I'd be curious, even again, it
411
00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:28.540
goes back to questions we can't answer from
412
00:18:28.540 --> 00:18:30.140
like a legal standpoint. It's like, okay, if
413
00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:31.720
you lose one million here and one million
414
00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:33.040
there, do you ever have to sum those
415
00:18:33.040 --> 00:18:34.680
to a grand total to kick no idea
416
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.440
loss? No idea. Or is it each individual
417
00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:38.140
case and therefore it never meets the threshold
418
00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:39.080
of what they have. Not to mention that
419
00:18:39.080 --> 00:18:41.000
you're talking about like separate wallets. Like if
420
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:42.280
you lose a million from one wallet and
421
00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:43.400
a million for another wallet, but it's the
422
00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:45.940
same, it belongs to the same client, but
423
00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:47.460
it's two different wallets. Like, do you have
424
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:49.320
to tell, how do you, how do you
425
00:18:49.320 --> 00:18:50.740
have to disclose that? It's all IOUs at
426
00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:52.020
the end of the day. I agree with
427
00:18:52.020 --> 00:18:55.420
you there. There's two things. co -mingling in
428
00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:57.840
IOUs. Yeah, that's got the, um, probably have
429
00:18:57.840 --> 00:18:59.280
to get away with it. You've got the
430
00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:00.900
two vulnerabilities that basically, we saw this with
431
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:02.720
BitGet, just I think on the 24th here,
432
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.000
where again, it's not like a Bitcoin, it's
433
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.520
not the Bitcoin custody side of it, that's
434
00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:07.420
necessarily directly attacked as the internal systems that
435
00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:08.960
they have in place, which goes back to,
436
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:10.740
you know, social engineering, but as well, like
437
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.820
a lot of those things are withdraws. So
438
00:19:12.820 --> 00:19:14.360
if you can get into the automation system,
439
00:19:14.360 --> 00:19:16.020
you can start automating some withdraws and see
440
00:19:16.020 --> 00:19:16.980
how far you can get before you kind
441
00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:18.220
of get caught. And the other one I
442
00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:19.440
was thinking about, which goes back to basically
443
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.660
any of these things is like, even if
444
00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:24.080
I assume, let's just fully assume, well, one,
445
00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:25.240
they've got insurance probably, and they do have
446
00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:26.360
a war chest that they can deal with
447
00:19:26.360 --> 00:19:27.880
some of these things. But we'll just say
448
00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:30.320
coinbase on the commercial side, or sorry, on
449
00:19:30.320 --> 00:19:32.660
the more like, um, the retail side, it's
450
00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:34.840
back to back, 100 % full reserves, no
451
00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:36.960
issues there. Somebody gets in there and steals
452
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.760
like 10%. So they're at 90 % reserves.
453
00:19:39.760 --> 00:19:41.220
Are they just going to float that? They
454
00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:42.700
might. They might. They might not. never get
455
00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:44.040
called on that. You can't see the wallet
456
00:19:44.040 --> 00:19:46.100
addresses. You don't know that it's necessarily gone.
457
00:19:46.100 --> 00:19:47.380
you're not going to necessarily have a bank
458
00:19:47.380 --> 00:19:48.480
run and I'm not cheering for any kind
459
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:49.580
of bank run because that's illegal and I'm
460
00:19:49.580 --> 00:19:51.200
sure it applies to this as well. But
461
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.140
they're never really going to be tested of
462
00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:54.400
what they're at the reserve. They might, if
463
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:55.860
this could have happened and they can legally
464
00:19:55.860 --> 00:19:57.360
kind of paper over it, they might just
465
00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:59.180
wait to make up the difference in time.
466
00:19:59.180 --> 00:20:00.200
This market has a bit of a loss
467
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:01.840
on their books. There's no reason for them
468
00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:03.240
to necessarily disclose. And of course, these are
469
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.120
all the reasons why self custody is and
470
00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:06.640
has to be the end goal because you
471
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.080
have, it's a black box. It's a whole
472
00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:09.620
bunch of IOUs like Walker said. It's just
473
00:20:09.620 --> 00:20:12.580
a black box. And I fully anticipate that
474
00:20:12.580 --> 00:20:14.520
not only has this happened here, but in
475
00:20:14.520 --> 00:20:16.760
many other assets and many other industries and
476
00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:18.200
many other places. You mentioned like the banking
477
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.660
industry, right? There's so many different instances, even
478
00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:22.360
with especially the LLMs coming in and cracking
479
00:20:22.360 --> 00:20:23.640
in on things, but they don't have to
480
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.000
disclose the loss or they can just go
481
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.600
to insurance or they can paper over it
482
00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:28.320
or they can be partial reserve. And you'll
483
00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:30.900
never know because Bitcoin, we can see it.
484
00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:32.740
We can see what's going on. It's always
485
00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:33.920
going to be that canary. It's going to
486
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:35.400
be the first thing that everything shows up
487
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.120
on. And it's going to look like Bitcoin
488
00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:39.440
alone is under attack. But it's not. Everything
489
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.740
is. And a lot of these systems have
490
00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:42.440
vulnerabilities. And a lot of hacks are always
491
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:43.860
ongoing and a lot of money is being
492
00:20:43.860 --> 00:20:45.440
stolen each year. We're just the ones that
493
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.220
detect it kind of first. Ben? Yeah. I
494
00:20:48.220 --> 00:20:49.780
mean, Bitcoin's always the canary in the coal
495
00:20:49.780 --> 00:20:52.400
mine, right? Like it's it's the on -chain
496
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:58.040
movements that can be visible as opposed to
497
00:20:58.040 --> 00:21:01.080
in the traditional system. It's just so opaque.
498
00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:02.540
Chris, how do you say canary in the
499
00:21:02.540 --> 00:21:06.640
coal mine in German? Yes, please. The canarian
500
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:14.260
fogg in the colon mine. of the time.
501
00:21:14.260 --> 00:21:15.580
I think you were piping up in the
502
00:21:15.580 --> 00:21:16.960
back chat. You had something on insurance for
503
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:21.060
Coinbase as well. Yeah, you mentioned that they
504
00:21:21.060 --> 00:21:22.440
would paper over it and that they would
505
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.320
be insured. And then, yeah, the good folks
506
00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:27.800
over at Anchor Watch had a survey and
507
00:21:27.800 --> 00:21:30.760
looked at the big exchanges like Bitfenex, cracking,
508
00:21:30.760 --> 00:21:34.280
Coinbase. In total, they have less than $2
509
00:21:34.280 --> 00:21:38.500
billion in insurance coverage. And Coinbase famously in
510
00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:42.000
their filings, they only have $400 million. worth
511
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.300
of insurance so they would self -insure they
512
00:21:44.300 --> 00:21:48.080
would They would self -insure you know yeah
513
00:21:48.080 --> 00:21:50.040
they they paper over it with like you
514
00:21:50.040 --> 00:21:51.600
know, oh, we have this money it's coming
515
00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:54.280
it anyway will anybody notice as you said
516
00:21:54.280 --> 00:21:59.380
like people do not withdraw but yeah it's
517
00:21:59.380 --> 00:22:01.980
like all these hacks that we've seen in
518
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:05.320
the past lead me to believe like there
519
00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:07.620
might may have been an exploit similar to
520
00:22:07.620 --> 00:22:09.000
what happened I think it was at the
521
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.740
cracking where you could send money and do
522
00:22:11.740 --> 00:22:14.180
it replaced by fee and then yeah, the
523
00:22:14.180 --> 00:22:16.360
money was credited and you could withdraw it.
524
00:22:16.360 --> 00:22:19.240
And something like this can easily, you know,
525
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:21.340
amounts to hundreds of millions of loss because
526
00:22:21.340 --> 00:22:24.380
they keep in surprising amount of like, like,
527
00:22:24.380 --> 00:22:27.300
large large, large bullets in hot condition. And
528
00:22:27.300 --> 00:22:30.240
yes, we saw with BitGet now or with
529
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.340
ByBit, the Lazarus group is more than competent.
530
00:22:33.340 --> 00:22:35.960
And I assume they also have Kimi K3
531
00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:40.260
or whatever Frontier AI model without any cyber
532
00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:43.760
guardrails that Rob is used. And yeah, so
533
00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:47.080
there is not more security if you're on
534
00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:48.620
an exchange. That's that's what we're trying to
535
00:22:48.620 --> 00:22:50.200
do. And I didn't try to make fun
536
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:53.280
of the situation earlier as Walker insinuated. I'm
537
00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:57.160
the self -custodial Maxi. We've been preaching the
538
00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.580
multi -vender, multi -sick for quite some time.
539
00:23:01.580 --> 00:23:04.000
But yeah, the current trends are not great
540
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.800
when you see the adoption of paper Bitcoin
541
00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:11.860
or custodians. Yeah, I think I think I,
542
00:23:11.860 --> 00:23:13.300
I, I, I just left up assets on
543
00:23:13.300 --> 00:23:19.480
platform for Coinbase, $245 billion. Holy shit. So,
544
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.080
good thing that they got that 400 million.
545
00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:24.240
Good thing. They got that insurance. Yes, it's
546
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:28.000
less than 0 .3 % of insurance coverage.
547
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.080
It's really, really, really good. How much cash
548
00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:30.200
on hand do they have? That's the other
549
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:31.660
question. Like, what's the war chest? I don't
550
00:23:31.660 --> 00:23:32.580
know, Joey, what do I look like an
551
00:23:32.580 --> 00:23:36.200
LLM? Like, come, that's my job. This is,
552
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:37.980
this is actually self insurance is more common
553
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:39.400
than you think. Like, if you, if you
554
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.740
look at, like something I know a little
555
00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:45.120
bit of, about is like government fleets government
556
00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:47.660
fleets are all self -insured. So there's no
557
00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:51.020
like State Farm, you know, Desjardin, whatever card
558
00:23:51.020 --> 00:23:52.760
in the in the glove box you pull
559
00:23:52.760 --> 00:23:53.920
out if you get an offender bender. It's
560
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.280
all, they're all self -insured. And big institutions
561
00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:58.360
do this for a couple reasons. One, because
562
00:23:58.360 --> 00:24:01.060
insuring something novel in this case is probably
563
00:24:01.060 --> 00:24:04.560
fucking crazy expensive. And number two, there's just
564
00:24:04.560 --> 00:24:06.640
nobody, there's no insurance company that's willing to
565
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.940
eat, you know, if something catastrophic happens, which
566
00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:11.740
is the edge case these guys all plan
567
00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:14.300
for. what is the plan for an insurance
568
00:24:14.300 --> 00:24:16.580
company to be able to cover $300 billion
569
00:24:16.580 --> 00:24:19.200
in losses? Like there just isn't one, right?
570
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.240
That there's no way that the monthly fee
571
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.360
or yearly fee or whatever, the retainer for
572
00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:27.960
that policy is affordable by any stretch. And
573
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:29.220
so you have to do self -insurance. So
574
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:31.200
I do want to know how much cash
575
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.940
they have on hand. This is the case,
576
00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:33.960
this is going to be the case at
577
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.600
whatever your favorite exchange is. Every exchange that
578
00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:40.300
does custody is at some greater level than
579
00:24:40.300 --> 00:24:43.060
outsourced insurance, self -insurance. They almost have to
580
00:24:43.060 --> 00:24:45.720
be by definition. So to answer your question,
581
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:46.780
Joey, and I quickly want to highlight that
582
00:24:46.780 --> 00:24:48.860
not only is he an MSTR bowl, he's
583
00:24:48.860 --> 00:24:50.960
also a Fed. We've got for cash on
584
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.600
hand, we've got 8 .61 billion as of
585
00:24:53.600 --> 00:24:56.980
their June 30th last quarterly report and 175
586
00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:59.220
million in short -term marketable investment. So about
587
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:01.940
8 .8 billion in cash and marketable investments
588
00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:04.020
that they could get access to. Not that
589
00:25:04.020 --> 00:25:06.140
much. Not that much compared to the whole
590
00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:09.800
stuff. Yeah. All right, gents. I'm going to
591
00:25:09.800 --> 00:25:13.920
give us. And that is the cash. Yeah.
592
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.700
Because I think they have like 4 ,000
593
00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:18.020
Bitcoin or so, or less than 4 ,000
594
00:25:18.020 --> 00:25:22.340
Bitcoin because you Treasury, yeah. Get cash, but
595
00:25:22.340 --> 00:25:24.740
you can't easily. Can we also say what
596
00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:28.600
a generational fumble coin base being like the
597
00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:31.400
first of the party and having such a
598
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:34.320
Bitcoin treasury years later is? They never believed
599
00:25:34.320 --> 00:25:36.080
in it, Ben. They never believed in it.
600
00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:38.060
And now they're way behind, right? That's really
601
00:25:38.060 --> 00:25:39.560
the only way you could frame that. That's
602
00:25:39.560 --> 00:25:42.540
just a mistake, you know, management mistake. Yeah,
603
00:25:42.540 --> 00:25:44.840
yeah, it's unfortunate. All right, gents, I want
604
00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:48.080
to pivot us really quick here to what's
605
00:25:48.080 --> 00:25:52.180
been going on both with inflation and the
606
00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:54.340
bond market, because it was kind of an
607
00:25:54.340 --> 00:25:56.400
interesting day here. I'm going to pull up
608
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.360
a couple things here. So, US, August, PCE
609
00:26:00.360 --> 00:26:05.180
inflation, Fed's preferred inflation metric, it fell to
610
00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:08.860
3 .4%. That's below the expected 3 .7.
611
00:26:08.860 --> 00:26:12.720
Core PCE fell to 3. below expectations of
612
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:16.840
3 .3. July headline and core PCE inflation
613
00:26:16.840 --> 00:26:22.000
also revised down by 30 basis points each,
614
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.420
which is resulting in rate -high odds falling
615
00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:31.220
for October. But the market, this is again
616
00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:34.540
from Kobay -A -A letter, the market will
617
00:26:34.540 --> 00:26:38.880
heavily discount today's PCA inflation data. Why? The
618
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.620
US just changed the way they calculate. it.
619
00:26:42.620 --> 00:26:45.440
So, you know, they do this all the
620
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.200
time with all of these different metrics, but
621
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.540
how do you get a more favorable number?
622
00:26:49.540 --> 00:26:51.040
And I'm not going to go through all
623
00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:55.080
of the details here. But largely correct because
624
00:26:55.080 --> 00:26:59.760
look at the friggin bond market today. Ten
625
00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:02.340
year, just hit a 24 -year high of
626
00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:05.840
5 .3%. Six years ago in March of
627
00:27:05.840 --> 00:27:09.720
2020, it was sitting at 0 .33%. So
628
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.000
cost of borrowing money. over for 10 years
629
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:17.160
has exploded 1 ,500 % since then. Makes
630
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.560
a hell of a difference if you're trying
631
00:27:19.560 --> 00:27:23.760
to finance literally anything. The 30 year is
632
00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:29.040
above 5 .6%. This is basically erases the
633
00:27:29.040 --> 00:27:34.480
PC inflation dump. Yeah. So I'm not going
634
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:37.100
to go too much further than that, but
635
00:27:37.100 --> 00:27:39.660
I mean, this is par for the course.
636
00:27:39.660 --> 00:27:41.700
Like we see it in every other. inflation
637
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:47.320
metric, even, you know, CPI for the general
638
00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:50.560
CPI inflation. Like they hedonic adjustments, all these
639
00:27:50.560 --> 00:27:54.100
types of things. It's just, it's, does anybody
640
00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:56.940
take these numbers to heart whatsoever? Like how
641
00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:58.940
much do people even give a shit about
642
00:27:58.940 --> 00:28:01.940
these metrics anymore? They don't. Like the big
643
00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:04.200
money is telling you with that 10 -year
644
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.700
price that they don't have any faith in
645
00:28:07.700 --> 00:28:11.220
in U .S. political institutions to get. any
646
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:15.020
of this under control. It's interesting. You know,
647
00:28:15.020 --> 00:28:16.500
we talked a little bit about how Warsh
648
00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:18.860
had to establish some level of credibility with
649
00:28:18.860 --> 00:28:21.440
a rate hike. And, you know, he seemed
650
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.380
to have done that early on in that,
651
00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:27.380
in the days sort of following that announcement.
652
00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:28.580
If for no other reason that because some
653
00:28:28.580 --> 00:28:30.480
of the assets that we follow that track,
654
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.960
you know, Bitcoin and are sort of adjacent
655
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:35.520
to our price action responded favorably. But the
656
00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:37.600
bigger question, you know, the short -term rates
657
00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:38.920
are great. Like you want to see those
658
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:40.400
low. Obviously, that's kind of stuff that helps
659
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.100
finance, you know, business investment and stuff like
660
00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:45.160
that, great. But the thing that's more important
661
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:47.100
is the two -year, right? What is the
662
00:28:47.100 --> 00:28:48.900
two -year rate compared to the Fed rate?
663
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.460
And then also the 10 and 30, you
664
00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:56.360
know, that that is your level of credibility
665
00:28:56.360 --> 00:28:59.340
around the world. And if you are the
666
00:28:59.340 --> 00:29:02.320
best currency, no doubt about that. If you
667
00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:05.240
are the most strong economy, no doubt about
668
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:07.580
that, you're also the world's military power, no
669
00:29:07.580 --> 00:29:11.120
doubt about that. I think it does save.
670
00:29:11.120 --> 00:29:13.380
to most people that that's the place you
671
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:14.320
want to be or most people would say
672
00:29:14.320 --> 00:29:15.540
this place they want to be, but it
673
00:29:15.540 --> 00:29:17.540
doesn't look to me like anyone's willing to
674
00:29:17.540 --> 00:29:20.180
do it for cheap, you know? Maybe one
675
00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:22.500
other thing to note, because, you know, we're
676
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.120
talking about economic data and how some of
677
00:29:24.120 --> 00:29:27.820
that data has been, you know, favorably revised,
678
00:29:27.820 --> 00:29:30.240
let's say, to put it, put it gently.
679
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.040
You talked about hedonics there, Ben. There's obviously
680
00:29:32.040 --> 00:29:34.040
been changes in the basket over the years.
681
00:29:34.040 --> 00:29:36.240
I think there's a, like a growing possibility
682
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.940
that what's actually being priced there is the
683
00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:42.720
U .S. being stretched. too thin militarily in
684
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.160
the next three or four years. What's being
685
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:49.200
priced there is ongoing conflict in Russia, Ukraine,
686
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.720
ongoing conflict in the Middle East, potential new
687
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.260
conflict between China and Taiwan, and, you know,
688
00:29:55.260 --> 00:29:58.040
who knows what else down the road. I
689
00:29:58.040 --> 00:30:00.660
think you're starting to see the possibility, you
690
00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:04.820
know, Ukraine for all its losses, it's, you
691
00:30:04.820 --> 00:30:07.040
know, God knows it's suffered hundreds of them
692
00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:08.600
at this point over the course of last
693
00:30:08.600 --> 00:30:11.120
few years, seems to have drones now that
694
00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:14.360
are faster than Russian interceptors. And so they
695
00:30:14.360 --> 00:30:16.940
are making some headway in Russia in a
696
00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:18.660
way that they just weren't before. And as
697
00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:21.020
we know, Russia's like a nuclear power. Like,
698
00:30:21.020 --> 00:30:24.480
is a, is a technical or technical tactical
699
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:26.700
tactical nuclear strike possible, you know, just to
700
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:28.180
show that you're willing to do it, just
701
00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:29.680
to show that, you know, if you continue
702
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.160
to attack some of the bigger areas in
703
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:33.940
Russia, some of the more important economic centers
704
00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:35.720
in Russia, some of the more important commodity
705
00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:37.900
centers in Russia, that, you know, you risk
706
00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:39.540
running, you're running this risk of getting hit
707
00:30:39.540 --> 00:30:42.160
with a nuke. I don't know. But once
708
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.940
you cross that Rubicon, that there's no going
709
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:47.080
back from that. And if you start to
710
00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:49.260
think about how war is becoming more and
711
00:30:49.260 --> 00:30:51.360
more expensive for the United States, both because
712
00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:53.180
of the problems with their debt market and
713
00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:55.360
because they're going to be stretched thinner and
714
00:30:55.360 --> 00:30:58.200
thinner. Not to mention that, you know, I
715
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.160
haven't seen anyone talk about this, but my
716
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.660
guess is that it's actually more expensive to
717
00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:06.360
run this like war of autonomous machines than
718
00:31:06.360 --> 00:31:08.880
is to run a war of men. And
719
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.660
so I don't know what that looks like
720
00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:12.940
in it on a like on a broad
721
00:31:12.940 --> 00:31:15.400
scale. But we're talking like significant ramp up
722
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:18.980
manufacturing. The movie terminate. Yeah, there you go.
723
00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:20.400
Just to clarify, you said you think it's
724
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:23.600
more expensive. You mean in the short term.
725
00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:25.060
Yeah, I think because you have to ramp
726
00:31:25.060 --> 00:31:26.540
up like all sorts of production that the
727
00:31:26.540 --> 00:31:28.120
U .S. just doesn't have right now. Our
728
00:31:28.120 --> 00:31:29.820
guy Palmer talks about this all the time,
729
00:31:29.820 --> 00:31:32.120
how the U .S. let manufacturing get away
730
00:31:32.120 --> 00:31:34.180
from them. And now to get to get
731
00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:35.960
to the point where they could really run
732
00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.540
an autonomous weapon based war, it would take
733
00:31:38.540 --> 00:31:40.840
them a decade. They just, they can't, there's
734
00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:42.020
just no way you can spin up commodities
735
00:31:42.020 --> 00:31:43.720
in labor and stuff. It would, it would
736
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:45.420
be, all the inputs would rise if you
737
00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:46.500
want to try and do it. Very, very
738
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:48.860
costly. And I don't think people are thinking
739
00:31:48.860 --> 00:31:50.460
a lot about that because everyone seems to
740
00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:51.880
understand that the next war may not be
741
00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:53.880
a meat grinder like World War 2 was.
742
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:55.700
But, you know, if you get three conflicts
743
00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:57.680
in three different parts of the world, suddenly
744
00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:59.940
you're talking about, you know, this sort of
745
00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:02.460
pseudo, that's a pseudo world war. Like, I
746
00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:03.880
don't know what the threshold is for World
747
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:06.240
War, but that's got to be close. The
748
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:08.580
Germans have to be involved. That's right. That's
749
00:32:08.580 --> 00:32:11.600
right. That's right. Once you guys, once you
750
00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:13.680
guys start rolling the panzers out, then, uh,
751
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.020
that we know, then we know it's legit.
752
00:32:15.020 --> 00:32:16.620
No, but I, in Germany, I call some
753
00:32:16.620 --> 00:32:20.500
pansies, not pansies. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. But anyway,
754
00:32:20.500 --> 00:32:21.400
all this to say, all is to say
755
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.760
that that that cost of debt is, is
756
00:32:24.760 --> 00:32:28.320
reflecting more than just the faith that people
757
00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:30.440
have in the U .S. economy in the
758
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:31.580
sort of like, you know, way that we
759
00:32:31.580 --> 00:32:33.520
think about it traditionally. I agree. And I
760
00:32:33.520 --> 00:32:34.700
think it's all like we see bonds around
761
00:32:34.700 --> 00:32:36.880
the world all rising, right? Yield's going up
762
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:38.200
across the world. I think that all the
763
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:39.480
government. are looking at different ways that they
764
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:40.700
have to try and recoup the funds of
765
00:32:40.700 --> 00:32:41.740
the cost of the interest that they already
766
00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:43.220
have. I was talking to someone just a
767
00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:44.380
little while ago and you don't have the
768
00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:46.060
details completely locked down, but there's some new
769
00:32:46.060 --> 00:32:48.200
law, new tax treatment coming into effect in
770
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:50.440
Australia in about nine months time. Where previously
771
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:52.060
cap gains is like 50 % is only
772
00:32:52.060 --> 00:32:53.140
like 50 % if you held it for
773
00:32:53.140 --> 00:32:54.700
12 months. And now it's just switching to
774
00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:57.080
a CPI adjusted and play a metric, right?
775
00:32:57.080 --> 00:32:58.660
They're just they're taking that right away from
776
00:32:58.660 --> 00:33:00.820
you. It seems everywhere in the world, they're
777
00:33:00.820 --> 00:33:03.020
looking for new opportunities and new reasons to
778
00:33:03.020 --> 00:33:04.320
tax you. I think, Chris, you mentioned something
779
00:33:04.320 --> 00:33:08.300
before the stream as well. Yeah, I mean,
780
00:33:08.300 --> 00:33:09.980
if If I look to the Netherlands, they
781
00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:13.800
will already introduce an unrealized capital gains tax.
782
00:33:13.800 --> 00:33:15.540
You're going to get taxed on gains that
783
00:33:15.540 --> 00:33:19.740
you haven't made. In Germany, entirely by accident,
784
00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:21.480
had, I think, some of the best laws
785
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.420
for Bitcoin on the books, because if you
786
00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:25.640
hold Bitcoin for one year, it's entirely tax
787
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.800
-free. It was treated similarly to gold. And
788
00:33:28.800 --> 00:33:32.460
now, yeah, the government currently in place just
789
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:35.520
submitted a bill. They'll discuss it on the
790
00:33:35.520 --> 00:33:37.520
10th of October. I think I'll actually fly
791
00:33:37.520 --> 00:33:41.140
to Berlin. try to voice my dissent there
792
00:33:41.140 --> 00:33:43.320
that we will get rid of this this
793
00:33:43.320 --> 00:33:44.940
holding period and they want to tax at
794
00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:48.840
25 % plus an additional 5 .5 %
795
00:33:48.840 --> 00:33:51.040
as a solidarity thing because we still have
796
00:33:51.040 --> 00:33:55.120
to pay for German reunification. And if you
797
00:33:55.120 --> 00:33:58.880
cannot prove, it's true. Oh my God. It
798
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:02.780
is true. Since 1991, I have been paying
799
00:34:02.780 --> 00:34:07.440
something called a solidarity tax to pay for
800
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.500
reunification. for rebuilding and for the Gulf War.
801
00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:14.080
Dude, the Canadians on this chat are so
802
00:34:14.080 --> 00:34:16.320
hyped to have another retarded country on this
803
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:20.240
screen for once. This is great. Germany's got
804
00:34:20.240 --> 00:34:23.740
the same issue. Same debt problem. Germany is
805
00:34:23.740 --> 00:34:25.940
as close as you can get to a
806
00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:30.500
functioning economy in Europe. Everything has been basically
807
00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:33.080
shipped abroad. And we used to be export
808
00:34:33.080 --> 00:34:36.760
champions. We were like exporting more than China.
809
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:39.680
This was like five years ago. Yeah, but
810
00:34:39.680 --> 00:34:42.560
we have been getting rid of our cheap
811
00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:44.660
energy. We have been getting rid of our
812
00:34:44.660 --> 00:34:48.680
manufacturing plants. And now, yeah, this whack -ass
813
00:34:48.680 --> 00:34:53.140
Bitcoin law, where if you cannot prove your
814
00:34:53.140 --> 00:34:57.000
cost basis, they just assume 50 % of
815
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.020
what you make. And that is, you know,
816
00:35:00.020 --> 00:35:02.320
and it is like the prognosis is just
817
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.800
350 million euros more in tax revenue in
818
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:11.280
2029. So it's like literally a drop in
819
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.420
the bucket, just like the bureaucracy that will
820
00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:16.340
be involved there and like all the tools
821
00:35:16.340 --> 00:35:19.020
and like the exchanges having to pivot to
822
00:35:19.020 --> 00:35:21.740
that will probably cost more than whatever revenue
823
00:35:21.740 --> 00:35:23.820
will end up. And inflation is going to
824
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:27.480
eat that anyways. But yeah, we've expected this.
825
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.100
Can you tell us like we talk a
826
00:35:29.100 --> 00:35:31.200
lot about Europe and the sort of like
827
00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:34.320
suicidal economic policy that money of the European
828
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.100
countries have adopted. We see it pretty clearly,
829
00:35:37.100 --> 00:35:39.920
obviously, in Bitcoin. Do the Germans see it
830
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:43.020
clearly or no? Like the elections obviously are
831
00:35:43.020 --> 00:35:45.020
telling one story. In the press, we see
832
00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:47.920
another story. Like what is the average German,
833
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.160
you know, millennial, let's say, think about what's
834
00:35:50.160 --> 00:35:55.640
going on? I think the average millennial is
835
00:35:55.640 --> 00:35:58.420
aware of the situation and has fully given
836
00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:01.200
up. So they know they are priced out
837
00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:02.880
out of the housing market. They know there
838
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.300
is very little, yeah, that's, you know the
839
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:08.640
quality of life that their parents enjoyed. is
840
00:36:08.640 --> 00:36:10.520
not something that they will be able to
841
00:36:10.520 --> 00:36:14.000
achieve. That has been, you know, the case
842
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.560
for like the last decade or so, has
843
00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:21.040
only gone worse. And people, you know, they
844
00:36:21.040 --> 00:36:24.720
realize something is wrong. And usually Germans flee
845
00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:27.600
into assets. They try to buy houses. But
846
00:36:27.600 --> 00:36:29.480
then I recently saw a crazy stat how
847
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:33.420
many thousands of billions are deposited in checking
848
00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:36.160
accounts in Germany because Germans apparently do not
849
00:36:36.160 --> 00:36:37.860
invest money in the stock market. They do
850
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:40.340
not invest money. money in Bitcoin or something
851
00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:42.340
similar. It's like really, really sad. We really
852
00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:45.480
love cash. So that's what I really lean
853
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:47.360
on when I try to pitch Bitcoin to
854
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.820
people, hey, this is like cash, but so
855
00:36:49.820 --> 00:36:52.780
much better. We will be the last society,
856
00:36:52.780 --> 00:36:54.340
maybe with Japan, to get rid of cash
857
00:36:54.340 --> 00:36:56.500
ever because we really love it next to
858
00:36:56.500 --> 00:37:01.080
our fax machines. But yeah, the average German,
859
00:37:01.080 --> 00:37:02.660
I think, is very much fed up with
860
00:37:02.660 --> 00:37:06.100
the government. We only ever end up having
861
00:37:06.100 --> 00:37:09.180
like this huge coalitions. and no single party
862
00:37:09.180 --> 00:37:12.140
in the last 12 years has managed to,
863
00:37:12.140 --> 00:37:15.980
you know, garner enough support to rule on
864
00:37:15.980 --> 00:37:19.720
their own. And that is then how democracy,
865
00:37:19.720 --> 00:37:23.140
yeah, basically fails because there's so much inaction
866
00:37:23.140 --> 00:37:26.320
and nothing changes and things get gradually worse.
867
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:29.400
And then coupled that with the energy crisis
868
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:33.840
that is inflicted through the Ukraine -Russian conflict.
869
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.780
It's not great. But still, I have much
870
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:38.700
preferred to live. living in the United States
871
00:37:38.700 --> 00:37:41.020
or, you know, anywhere else. So I still
872
00:37:41.020 --> 00:37:45.620
think it's very livable and worth defending. What
873
00:37:45.620 --> 00:37:47.740
the fuck? I don't wait for you. I'm
874
00:37:47.740 --> 00:37:52.160
going to, I'm going to talk. It is.
875
00:37:52.160 --> 00:37:52.920
It is. Next time you try to come
876
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.120
to America, see what happens, brother. Yes. I
877
00:37:57.120 --> 00:37:59.240
mean, I will probably get shot when I
878
00:37:59.240 --> 00:38:03.460
ask eyes for directions. But so where I
879
00:38:03.460 --> 00:38:05.620
live, you won't. I think we all know
880
00:38:05.620 --> 00:38:11.480
why. The height. Not with that accent. So,
881
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:13.260
yeah, where I live, it is actually really
882
00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:16.540
nice. It is very secure. From a stats
883
00:38:16.540 --> 00:38:19.000
perspective, like the most secure city in the
884
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:23.280
United States is more dangerous than any major
885
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:25.840
European capital. So there's a little bit of
886
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:28.200
skew in the media there. Why, Chris? And
887
00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:30.640
from my, you know, I travel a lot.
888
00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:32.140
So I see a lot. And I would
889
00:38:32.140 --> 00:38:34.020
say, you know, this is still worth saving.
890
00:38:34.020 --> 00:38:36.640
Why are they so? Why are the major
891
00:38:36.640 --> 00:38:39.460
cities in the United States? So dangerous. Demonetize
892
00:38:39.460 --> 00:38:42.380
before the break. Tell us. I'm curious. What's
893
00:38:42.380 --> 00:38:46.260
the European? Joey has some theories. I don't
894
00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:48.160
know why that is. I don't know. That's
895
00:38:48.160 --> 00:38:50.360
why we're asking you for Europeans outside. Oh,
896
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.860
man. I'm not sure. The chat's going wild.
897
00:38:53.860 --> 00:38:59.460
Germany needs ice. One of the things that
898
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:00.640
I did just want to quickly highlight as
899
00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:01.740
well, too, where we're on the subject as
900
00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:02.900
well, is just want to point out that
901
00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:04.780
it's not like Germany and the U .S.
902
00:39:04.780 --> 00:39:06.800
bonds, too, but the spread between the European
903
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.000
countries, is spread particularly between France and Germany,
904
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.160
as bad as it might be for German
905
00:39:10.160 --> 00:39:12.040
looking to recoup some more taxes, is their
906
00:39:12.040 --> 00:39:13.620
yields are going up. The spread between other
907
00:39:13.620 --> 00:39:15.860
countries is even getting higher, hitting a 14
908
00:39:15.860 --> 00:39:17.820
-year high between the two. I don't think
909
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:19.840
things are looking so good throughout the Eurozone.
910
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:21.020
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Just want to
911
00:39:21.020 --> 00:39:24.500
throw that one in there as well. Amazing.
912
00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:25.940
All right, gents. I'm going to take us
913
00:39:25.940 --> 00:39:27.180
a break here. On the other side of
914
00:39:27.180 --> 00:39:31.800
the break, a couple things. One, dude who
915
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:34.580
I would say, he's not typically bearish on
916
00:39:34.580 --> 00:39:37.520
Bitcoin, but he typically tries to pull people
917
00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:39.980
back down to earth. I just came across
918
00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.700
this and wanted to highlight a guy who
919
00:39:42.700 --> 00:39:47.180
seems to be pretty damn bullish over what
920
00:39:47.180 --> 00:39:49.160
Bitcoin looks like over the next few years,
921
00:39:49.160 --> 00:39:51.000
which is quite a departure from what I've
922
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.760
seen from him before. I'd say his price
923
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.300
targets are, I mean, given the last couple
924
00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:00.380
cycles seem quite high. Outside of that, I
925
00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:03.420
also wanted to hit on Anthropic, their IPO
926
00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:06.820
prospectus was leaked to writers. So we're going
927
00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:09.420
to chat a bit about that and also
928
00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:13.980
how some governments are seeing the growing risk
929
00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:17.120
in and around AI and the debt that's
930
00:40:17.120 --> 00:40:20.480
being accumulated and the pooling of capital there.
931
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:21.900
So I'm going to chat about that on
932
00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:23.020
the other side of the break. In the
933
00:40:23.020 --> 00:40:24.760
meantime, everybody in the chat, thanks for being
934
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.000
here. Keep throwing those chairs. Keep making fun
935
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.160
of our German friends. And we will be
936
00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:32.780
back in just a moment. Make sure that
937
00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:35.120
you like and subscribe us as well. We'll
938
00:40:35.120 --> 00:40:37.820
see you guys in just a second. One
939
00:40:37.820 --> 00:40:40.280
company I like pointing people to when they
940
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:43.420
ask about Bitcoin mining is abundant mines. They
941
00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:45.880
were founded by Bo and Christine Turner after
942
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:48.180
losing over half a million dollars to broken
943
00:40:48.180 --> 00:40:50.840
promises in the mining industry. And they built
944
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.760
their hosting model to remove the usual headaches.
945
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.400
With abundant mines, you own your machines and
946
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.960
keep 100 % of the Bitcoin you mine.
947
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:02.140
There's no revenue share, no hidden skims. Pricing
948
00:41:02.140 --> 00:41:05.380
is simple. One flat monthly fee covers power,
949
00:41:05.380 --> 00:41:09.240
parts, labor. and repairs. They also guarantee uptime.
950
00:41:09.240 --> 00:41:11.340
The machine goes down, their hash rate redirect
951
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:14.200
system routes hash power from their fleet so
952
00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:16.920
earnings don't just stop, and every machine is
953
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:20.560
insured at full replacement value. Everything is hosted
954
00:41:20.560 --> 00:41:23.020
in the U .S. powered by hydro, and
955
00:41:23.020 --> 00:41:26.040
mining equipment may qualify for 100 % year
956
00:41:26.040 --> 00:41:29.980
one bonus depreciation. Learn more at abundant mines
957
00:41:29.980 --> 00:41:33.360
.com slash sessions. Bitcoin well. You know them,
958
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.940
you love them, long time supporter of the
959
00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:36.680
channel, and one of the easiest places to
960
00:41:36.680 --> 00:41:38.300
buy Bitcoin directly to your wallet in the
961
00:41:38.300 --> 00:41:39.940
U .S. and Canada. But that's not all
962
00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:41.480
they do. So for anyone looking to make
963
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:43.980
a big purchase, there is Bitcoin Well Infinite.
964
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:45.360
Because the hard part isn't the buy, it's
965
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:46.560
making sure you don't leave a giant mess
966
00:41:46.560 --> 00:41:48.980
for your family. Taxes, estate planning, even mining
967
00:41:48.980 --> 00:41:50.800
and lending. Bitcoin Well Infinite pairs you with
968
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:53.040
your own dedicated advisor to help you every
969
00:41:53.040 --> 00:41:55.120
step of the way. And for the Americans,
970
00:41:55.120 --> 00:41:57.060
they're launching their own Bitcoin IRA and the
971
00:41:57.060 --> 00:41:59.460
wait list is open. Verifiable and on chain.
972
00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:02.000
So sign up today. Visit Bitcoinwell .com slash
973
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:03.700
BTC Sessions or scan the QR code on
974
00:42:03.700 --> 00:42:06.960
the screen. All right. That's got to be
975
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.400
the funniest fucking thing. The backchats ever happened.
976
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.060
You can't say it. You can't say it.
977
00:42:13.060 --> 00:42:15.980
Can't say it. Can't say it. I'm dying.
978
00:42:15.980 --> 00:42:17.360
The rule of the back chat. The only
979
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:18.900
time you talk about the backchats when Joey
980
00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:21.460
talks about how he was secretly stacking micro
981
00:42:21.460 --> 00:42:24.900
strategy while telling people not to buy it,
982
00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:26.460
but he was buying it the whole time.
983
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:27.860
That's the only thing you can say from
984
00:42:27.860 --> 00:42:30.900
the back chat, guys. Moving on. We won't
985
00:42:30.900 --> 00:42:37.520
discuss that. Okay. Mr. Bollinger bands himself, Peter
986
00:42:37.520 --> 00:42:39.940
Brandt, you guys ever taking a look at
987
00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:42.520
some of his stuff? He's, I will say
988
00:42:42.520 --> 00:42:48.980
that when everybody's getting outlandish and unreasonable, he
989
00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:51.680
is typically trying to pull people back to
990
00:42:51.680 --> 00:42:54.320
Earth. At least that's been kind of my
991
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:58.560
read over the past few years. He likes
992
00:42:58.560 --> 00:43:01.340
to reign on people's parades. But I wouldn't
993
00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:04.240
say in an unreasonable way, but who knows?
994
00:43:04.240 --> 00:43:06.820
Is the guy that invented the exercise bands?
995
00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:11.320
Yes, exactly. For those at home, you know.
996
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:12.980
Yeah, if you've got three kids, talk to
997
00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:17.420
him. Oh, I had to unmute you for
998
00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:23.460
that one. Jesus, man. Oh, no. Oh, it's
999
00:43:23.460 --> 00:43:27.460
a good thing this isn't live. Yeah. Jesus.
1000
00:43:27.460 --> 00:43:33.840
Okay. Let's keep going here. Wow. All right.
1001
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:37.100
Peter Brent, Bollinger bands. This is not an
1002
00:43:37.100 --> 00:43:40.060
exercise equipment. It's a way of looking at
1003
00:43:40.060 --> 00:43:44.600
charts. Nonetheless, I feel like he's been really
1004
00:43:44.600 --> 00:43:49.800
typically subdued when it comes to price points.
1005
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:53.080
But he's talking about price targets of Bitcoin
1006
00:43:53.080 --> 00:43:57.040
in the 300 to 600K range in the
1007
00:43:57.040 --> 00:44:00.260
next few years here. I don't want to
1008
00:44:00.260 --> 00:44:02.420
dive too deeply into kind of what he
1009
00:44:02.420 --> 00:44:05.900
said here. but I'm just kind of curious.
1010
00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:07.660
Does that seem outlandish to you guys? Or
1011
00:44:07.660 --> 00:44:10.280
do you think that we get, you know,
1012
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:13.160
a good push in the next cycle here?
1013
00:44:13.160 --> 00:44:19.360
Outlandishly low. Too bearish. Take it, Walker. I
1014
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:22.020
don't know. I mean, I appreciate people who
1015
00:44:22.020 --> 00:44:23.740
make price targets that actually have a date
1016
00:44:23.740 --> 00:44:26.140
attached them. Because when people are like Bitcoin
1017
00:44:26.140 --> 00:44:27.600
is going to hit a million of coin,
1018
00:44:27.600 --> 00:44:29.120
you know, so -and -so says Bitcoin's going
1019
00:44:29.120 --> 00:44:30.360
to hit a million of coin. And every
1020
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:33.300
fucking pumper account puts it out there. No
1021
00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:34.380
shit it's going to hit a million of
1022
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:37.080
coin, right? Like, but when? Like, that's what
1023
00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:38.940
people care about. Like, we all know it's
1024
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.800
going to hit a million a coin. The
1025
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.420
question is, for our, you know, high time
1026
00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:44.980
preference friends, how soon is that can happen?
1027
00:44:44.980 --> 00:44:46.940
I'm sorry, guys, I'm belching. It's this German
1028
00:44:46.940 --> 00:44:49.240
beer, this, this, uh, this bitburger. It's a
1029
00:44:49.240 --> 00:44:51.760
quite good. Funny thing is that beer, that
1030
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.960
beer is literally made around 70 kilometers, but
1031
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.440
that is, I don't know, a hundred miles.
1032
00:44:56.440 --> 00:44:59.760
Don't docks yourself a Muslim bro. And it's
1033
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:04.100
called Bitburger. You can properly pronounce it. Bitbulger.
1034
00:45:04.100 --> 00:45:06.900
It is a super cheap beer and I
1035
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:08.780
assume you pay through the nose because you're
1036
00:45:08.780 --> 00:45:10.820
in America or you paid like $10 in
1037
00:45:10.820 --> 00:45:13.220
4 % per beer. No, I don't know.
1038
00:45:13.220 --> 00:45:14.940
I think I paid like six bucks for
1039
00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:18.780
a four pack. Oh, fuck. That's cheap. This
1040
00:45:18.780 --> 00:45:22.160
is America, brother. I pay what I want.
1041
00:45:22.160 --> 00:45:25.840
This reminds me of my first time traveling.
1042
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:28.680
I went to Australia and I was like,
1043
00:45:28.680 --> 00:45:30.440
roll up to the bottom. I'll take a
1044
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:32.940
foster. And the bartender's like, one of the
1045
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:36.360
first time. fuck he finds one can there
1046
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.560
was literally dust on it like most in
1047
00:45:39.560 --> 00:45:42.460
can how do you feel about coach am
1048
00:45:42.460 --> 00:45:46.140
i saying that right coach coach is a
1049
00:45:46.140 --> 00:45:48.000
type of beer so it's a i know
1050
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:49.380
it's a type of beer chris i'm not
1051
00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:53.680
a poluka and i can't so there are
1052
00:45:53.680 --> 00:45:56.380
many many different varieties of kulch and they
1053
00:45:56.380 --> 00:45:57.600
are you know you can drink them like
1054
00:45:57.600 --> 00:45:59.980
water they're like really you drink uh like
1055
00:45:59.980 --> 00:46:01.980
ranz i drink many of them i've heard
1056
00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:05.540
some called frown beer actually because they're only
1057
00:46:05.540 --> 00:46:08.700
beer for women. Is it true? I mean,
1058
00:46:08.700 --> 00:46:11.200
you basically only drink it in and around
1059
00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:14.460
Cologne and during carnival, so I get why,
1060
00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:16.660
but I like it. Anyway, Ben, what was
1061
00:46:16.660 --> 00:46:22.540
the question? I don't judge. All right. Bidbit.
1062
00:46:22.540 --> 00:46:24.520
600K is that, is that outlandish the next
1063
00:46:24.520 --> 00:46:26.820
few years? Like, you know, what do we
1064
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:29.320
do this last cycle? Like it seemed, it
1065
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:32.400
was very subdued, but was that, was there
1066
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:36.060
extenuated? circumstances around that like does do do
1067
00:46:36.060 --> 00:46:39.580
we think that the law of diminishing returns
1068
00:46:39.580 --> 00:46:42.700
goes away i mean i think that uh
1069
00:46:42.700 --> 00:46:44.560
so i'll stop talking about beer now i
1070
00:46:44.560 --> 00:46:47.120
promise guys um i think that if i
1071
00:46:47.120 --> 00:46:49.540
was to look at this like last cycle
1072
00:46:49.540 --> 00:46:53.080
we did what 16k to 125k which is
1073
00:46:53.080 --> 00:46:58.100
like a what eight eightish x right so
1074
00:46:58.100 --> 00:47:00.880
something like that okay so if we we
1075
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:02.580
do that again what's a what's an eight
1076
00:47:02.580 --> 00:47:04.420
x from the site what was our cycle
1077
00:47:04.420 --> 00:47:07.900
low here so 50 yeah 58 okay uh
1078
00:47:07.900 --> 00:47:09.880
like so you know we'd be we'd be
1079
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:14.240
looking at like 464k uh during what the
1080
00:47:14.240 --> 00:47:17.700
fuck is this shit what's happening are you
1081
00:47:17.700 --> 00:47:20.820
are you dating my side chick chris come
1082
00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:23.640
on man uh wow i could not handle
1083
00:47:23.640 --> 00:47:26.420
sydney spini i can't believe which conference was
1084
00:47:26.420 --> 00:47:29.760
this at we all missed her yeah sorry
1085
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.820
for Roger Ruponka please continue no not at
1086
00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:32.940
all this is what gets us the view
1087
00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.320
i'm sure the views are about to just
1088
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:36.880
spike through the room guys if you like
1089
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:41.420
sidney and tall germans uh please like and
1090
00:47:41.420 --> 00:47:44.440
subscribe to this channel she was looking for
1091
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:48.420
a man in finance i think oh yeah
1092
00:47:48.420 --> 00:47:49.920
you know carl did a great remix of
1093
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.100
that um she doesn't she's just looking for
1094
00:47:52.100 --> 00:47:53.720
a man in bitcoin but guys sorry that
1095
00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:56.280
guys she already found one um but anyway
1096
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:58.320
uh i don't know i think that's that's
1097
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.860
perfectly reasonable like i think it's perfectly reasonable
1098
00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:02.220
i think there's also a good argument to
1099
00:48:02.220 --> 00:48:04.260
be made that this last cycle was fairly
1100
00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:07.360
muted now it was still pretty great like
1101
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:08.240
i think i know a lot of people
1102
00:48:08.240 --> 00:48:11.140
were disappointed by this last cycle um and
1103
00:48:11.140 --> 00:48:14.180
like i feel that because i'm not a
1104
00:48:14.180 --> 00:48:15.420
bitcoin o g i got it in in
1105
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:16.560
2020 guys i bought all the way up
1106
00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:19.000
the 69 k top i we were below
1107
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.920
that 69k top here in 2026 so like
1108
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:23.980
this isn't me speaking from a pile of
1109
00:48:23.980 --> 00:48:25.840
thousands of bitcoin being like well actually it
1110
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:28.580
wasn't too bad you know like no no
1111
00:48:28.580 --> 00:48:30.740
gosh these german beer is so burpy um
1112
00:48:30.740 --> 00:48:33.120
but what what i am saying is is
1113
00:48:33.120 --> 00:48:35.760
that like i think that the cycle was
1114
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:37.700
fairly muted because you had a lot of
1115
00:48:37.700 --> 00:48:40.760
the uh the froth go into treasury companies
1116
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.120
uh i think you had a you know
1117
00:48:43.120 --> 00:48:45.180
i think we i was surprised by how
1118
00:48:45.180 --> 00:48:46.560
much of the capital that went into the
1119
00:48:46.560 --> 00:48:49.760
beat bitcoin etfs actually did not rotate out
1120
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.100
when the price went down like the boomers
1121
00:48:52.100 --> 00:48:53.700
and the gen xers too i don't know
1122
00:48:53.700 --> 00:48:55.720
i've been hard on gen x lately um
1123
00:48:55.720 --> 00:48:56.940
you know got a lot of grief for
1124
00:48:56.940 --> 00:48:58.360
it you guys are all right you guys
1125
00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:00.340
are you're the manager generation of this fourth
1126
00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:01.640
turning we know it you know we're the
1127
00:49:01.640 --> 00:49:05.480
hero generation but but But like they were
1128
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:08.140
more diamond -handed than most than every fucking
1129
00:49:08.140 --> 00:49:10.500
crypto person out there. There wasn't a huge
1130
00:49:10.500 --> 00:49:12.780
amount of capital flight out of the Bitcoin
1131
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:15.860
ETFs when the price started dumping. That's, I
1132
00:49:15.860 --> 00:49:18.020
think, very notable. It means that they are
1133
00:49:18.020 --> 00:49:20.160
inherently a little longer time preference than your
1134
00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:22.500
average just tourist who gets into spot Bitcoin
1135
00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:25.140
on Coinbase. That's interesting. But I do think
1136
00:49:25.140 --> 00:49:27.200
a lot of the froth that we would
1137
00:49:27.200 --> 00:49:29.820
have seen at the top happened in the
1138
00:49:29.820 --> 00:49:32.360
treasury market. Now that being said, like who
1139
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:33.380
gives a shit about that? the froth at
1140
00:49:33.380 --> 00:49:35.100
the top. Maybe this cycle was actually just
1141
00:49:35.100 --> 00:49:37.140
a little bit more true to what actual
1142
00:49:37.140 --> 00:49:40.320
demand looked like versus just purely speculative frothy
1143
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:42.540
demand. And so maybe that's what we start
1144
00:49:42.540 --> 00:49:44.180
seeing from here on out. You start seeing
1145
00:49:44.180 --> 00:49:46.700
less of the froth at the top, less
1146
00:49:46.700 --> 00:49:48.680
of the massive blow off top, and you
1147
00:49:48.680 --> 00:49:49.940
start seeing things that are a little bit
1148
00:49:49.940 --> 00:49:51.760
more manageable in terms of the cycles where
1149
00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:53.120
it doesn't feel like, oh my god, we
1150
00:49:53.120 --> 00:49:56.460
just declined 90%. Well, we went down like
1151
00:49:56.460 --> 00:50:00.480
50 % from the all time highs. less
1152
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:05.000
what from 125 to 58k so like that
1153
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.160
that's not too bad and i know a
1154
00:50:07.160 --> 00:50:08.280
lot of people are still saying well the
1155
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:09.940
bottom's going to be in october because that's
1156
00:50:09.940 --> 00:50:12.220
what the four -year cycle says i don't
1157
00:50:12.220 --> 00:50:13.960
know even if it is like are you
1158
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:15.100
going to be mad you bought right here
1159
00:50:15.100 --> 00:50:17.240
i don't think so because i think we
1160
00:50:17.240 --> 00:50:19.720
all like this is a real question like
1161
00:50:19.720 --> 00:50:22.260
let's say by 2029 let's take this time
1162
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:24.500
frame do you think bitcoin is going to
1163
00:50:24.500 --> 00:50:28.540
be more than a hundred thousand dollars i
1164
00:50:28.540 --> 00:50:30.040
do I think it's going to be more
1165
00:50:30.040 --> 00:50:32.660
than 200 ,000. I think most people would
1166
00:50:32.660 --> 00:50:36.120
probably say yes. Okay, like more than 300.
1167
00:50:36.120 --> 00:50:38.780
Like you may have decreasing percentages of people
1168
00:50:38.780 --> 00:50:40.640
who have that expectation, but the point is
1169
00:50:40.640 --> 00:50:43.180
that we're talking about still multiple Xs. I
1170
00:50:43.180 --> 00:50:46.260
think sometimes people get spoiled with Bitcoin's returns,
1171
00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:48.220
perhaps especially if you were like an OG,
1172
00:50:48.220 --> 00:50:49.540
if you got in before some of us
1173
00:50:49.540 --> 00:50:52.180
and you've seen these, you know, you've seen
1174
00:50:52.180 --> 00:50:54.120
thousands of, you know, thousands of thousands of
1175
00:50:54.120 --> 00:50:57.700
percent gains. Like, I don't know, for me,
1176
00:50:57.700 --> 00:51:00.500
yeah, Bitcoin like does a few. over the
1177
00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:04.100
court until 2029, I'll still be super happy.
1178
00:51:04.100 --> 00:51:06.920
It's still going to outperform basically almost anything.
1179
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:07.940
And it's something I know I can actually
1180
00:51:07.940 --> 00:51:10.200
hold myself. So I think we need to
1181
00:51:10.200 --> 00:51:13.540
need to not be quite as greedy and
1182
00:51:13.540 --> 00:51:15.300
realize that, hey, if Bitcoin just does a
1183
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:17.480
few multiples, it's still a few hundred thousand
1184
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:20.440
dollars in a few years. Walker, that's all
1185
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:22.740
right by me. Currently at gold's market cap
1186
00:51:22.740 --> 00:51:24.860
of like 29 .1 trillion, if Bitcoin just
1187
00:51:24.860 --> 00:51:26.840
takes a quarter of gold's current market cap
1188
00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:28.120
over the time and it's going to, the
1189
00:51:28.120 --> 00:51:29.160
gold's going to go up. the market cap
1190
00:51:29.160 --> 00:51:29.920
of gold is going to go as well
1191
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:31.800
too. But just a quarter of the standing
1192
00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:33.200
market cap of gold, it puts Bitcoin at
1193
00:51:33.200 --> 00:51:36.400
363 ,000 a coin. Like it's not a
1194
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.080
stretch goal to reach those numbers. And then
1195
00:51:38.080 --> 00:51:39.600
you'll still have people saying like, well, that
1196
00:51:39.600 --> 00:51:41.720
was a pretty muted bull, you know, like
1197
00:51:41.720 --> 00:51:44.660
Bitcoin's only 300 ,000 a coin. I don't
1198
00:51:44.660 --> 00:51:47.460
know. Seems like a diminishing returns. It's like,
1199
00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:49.740
yeah, of course they're diminishing returns. Because the
1200
00:51:49.740 --> 00:51:51.880
people who are mining Bitcoin at the very
1201
00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:53.560
beginning, like, yeah, they were taking, they were
1202
00:51:53.560 --> 00:51:55.460
the pioneers taking the risk that nobody else
1203
00:51:55.460 --> 00:51:58.740
would. The non -discaming returns point is also.
1204
00:51:58.740 --> 00:52:01.220
probably a very scary moment as well. When
1205
00:52:01.220 --> 00:52:02.800
we reach that point where the returns start
1206
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:05.460
to skyrocket is usually signaling some major chaos
1207
00:52:05.460 --> 00:52:06.920
somewhere in the world. I expect it to
1208
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:09.300
come, but I don't think that's necessarily a
1209
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:13.780
fun time. Yeah, unless you hold Bitcoin. Yeah.
1210
00:52:13.780 --> 00:52:16.640
Unless you hold Bitcoin. It's too much like,
1211
00:52:16.640 --> 00:52:18.900
oh, this many dollars and little four X,
1212
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:20.360
like, I don't give a shit about that.
1213
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:22.640
What is it in? I want to know.
1214
00:52:22.640 --> 00:52:25.060
I don't care about rice marks or Weimar
1215
00:52:25.060 --> 00:52:27.460
Marx Marx or like Deutsche Marx Marx, like,
1216
00:52:27.460 --> 00:52:29.380
I want to know how many of meat
1217
00:52:29.380 --> 00:52:31.740
I can buy with a million Satoshi because
1218
00:52:31.740 --> 00:52:34.320
that inevitably we're going to hit a million
1219
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:36.140
dollars and maybe it will be sooner than
1220
00:52:36.140 --> 00:52:37.540
later and we will use it to heat
1221
00:52:37.540 --> 00:52:41.320
our houses with the cash. So yeah, all
1222
00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:45.100
these, you know, T .A. trade analysis I
1223
00:52:45.100 --> 00:52:47.480
don't give a shit about in the end
1224
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:51.500
increase increase that number. And right now it
1225
00:52:51.500 --> 00:52:54.080
is really, really cheap, I think. But you
1226
00:52:54.080 --> 00:52:55.860
know, you can also pivot into AI. I
1227
00:52:55.860 --> 00:53:00.520
don't know. There's a matter of that I'm
1228
00:53:00.520 --> 00:53:05.940
a matter of fact, I will pivot. But
1229
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.880
before I do, I just wanted to throw
1230
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:11.480
the question to the audience. I'm just wondering
1231
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.040
who wore it better. So if you can
1232
00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:18.600
let us know. That'd be fantastic. But anyways,
1233
00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:23.840
moving on here, let's chat about the Anthropic
1234
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.980
IPO prospectus was leaked to Reuters. So Anthropic
1235
00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:33.560
reported a net loss of 42 billion in
1236
00:53:33.560 --> 00:53:36.680
2025. Is that right? No, that's correct. Yes,
1237
00:53:36.680 --> 00:53:39.860
that is correct. Please continue. Okay. And plans
1238
00:53:39.860 --> 00:53:43.100
to spend $518 billion on cloud computing and
1239
00:53:43.100 --> 00:53:46.380
infrastructure obligations in the coming year, according to
1240
00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:50.180
that prospectus. It details how the company has
1241
00:53:50.180 --> 00:53:53.520
grown sharply in the last year, okay, while
1242
00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:58.100
also posting wider losses. Revenue. through 12 -fold
1243
00:53:58.100 --> 00:54:02.140
in 2025 to nearly 4 .6 billion, even
1244
00:54:02.140 --> 00:54:04.740
as the company lost more than $8 billion
1245
00:54:04.740 --> 00:54:08.900
on an operating basis, excluding write -downs of
1246
00:54:08.900 --> 00:54:13.500
various liabilities, mostly tied to previous fundraising, according
1247
00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:16.800
to documents reported here for the first time.
1248
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:20.240
So beyond that, you see things like Bank
1249
00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:22.760
of England sees growing risk that danger from
1250
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:26.460
AI and debt will materialize. I don't think
1251
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:29.720
that's... I don't think that's unreasonable and we've
1252
00:54:29.720 --> 00:54:32.500
seen plenty of people raising the alarms around
1253
00:54:32.500 --> 00:54:35.100
this and the way that this stuff is
1254
00:54:35.100 --> 00:54:38.020
reporting. If I'm not mistaken, and maybe Joey,
1255
00:54:38.020 --> 00:54:39.360
I kind of want you to chime in
1256
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:41.140
on this because I remember us talking about
1257
00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:43.660
this, but I can't quite remember the details,
1258
00:54:43.660 --> 00:54:47.280
but there's something funky about the way that
1259
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:51.500
they're reporting the obligations versus the assets versus
1260
00:54:51.500 --> 00:54:54.260
the income. There's something, do you recall this?
1261
00:54:54.260 --> 00:54:58.480
Yeah, they're fucking, they're making. up the accounting.
1262
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.420
They're saying the business is really profitable if
1263
00:55:00.420 --> 00:55:01.540
you take away all the stuff we have
1264
00:55:01.540 --> 00:55:03.140
to spend money on, including inference, which is
1265
00:55:03.140 --> 00:55:06.020
the fucking biggest expense. Like, I mean, come
1266
00:55:06.020 --> 00:55:08.080
on. Like, what are we talking about here?
1267
00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:11.140
By the way, these guys have, you know,
1268
00:55:11.140 --> 00:55:14.740
half a trillion dollars in non -cancelable debt.
1269
00:55:14.740 --> 00:55:17.120
I mean, does no one, is there no
1270
00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:19.840
fucking sane people in the room in these
1271
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.320
fucking meetings? You're talking about, you're talking about
1272
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:28.960
the only silo where literally every single year,
1273
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:31.440
even as all forces try to push you
1274
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.960
the other direction to keep GDP going up,
1275
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:36.360
shit is getting cheaper, no matter what. You
1276
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:39.080
get way more fucking horsepower on your computer,
1277
00:55:39.080 --> 00:55:41.240
on your phone, whatever, for the same amount
1278
00:55:41.240 --> 00:55:43.840
of money or less money every single year.
1279
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:46.720
And these guys are taking a trillion, probably
1280
00:55:46.720 --> 00:55:49.200
close to a trillion dollars in commitments and
1281
00:55:49.200 --> 00:55:52.840
already already issued, I shouldn't say issued, let's
1282
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.620
say already consumed debt. for their buildout for
1283
00:55:56.620 --> 00:56:01.480
hardware that's depreciating on, you know, what Nvidia
1284
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:03.540
generally says is a two -year timetable. Well,
1285
00:56:03.540 --> 00:56:05.360
like we talked about last week, that depreciation
1286
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:07.940
is really more like six or eight months.
1287
00:56:07.940 --> 00:56:10.980
And they're also, don't forget, part of this,
1288
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.760
like, stupid, uh, loop of using the chips
1289
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:19.120
they bought for, for new chips, like that's
1290
00:56:19.120 --> 00:56:21.220
collateral for new chips they're going to buy.
1291
00:56:21.220 --> 00:56:22.800
And Nvidia gets to book, you know, not
1292
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:24.380
only the new chips with the old chips
1293
00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:26.020
and the old chips and the like this
1294
00:56:26.020 --> 00:56:27.660
whole thing is a house of cards. And
1295
00:56:27.660 --> 00:56:29.720
so when people say, like, this is the
1296
00:56:29.720 --> 00:56:31.680
question you have to ask yourself, okay? It
1297
00:56:31.680 --> 00:56:32.880
is the only question that matters at this
1298
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:36.020
point. When the people who are building the
1299
00:56:36.020 --> 00:56:40.320
product beg for regulation, who is the regulation
1300
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:46.100
protecting? The answer is them, not you, okay?
1301
00:56:46.100 --> 00:56:47.920
And I've heard some people make this case.
1302
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:49.560
I can't remember who made it sort of
1303
00:56:49.560 --> 00:56:52.700
most famously or most, most, well, the most
1304
00:56:52.700 --> 00:56:54.240
well -known person to make it. But probably
1305
00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:57.580
me. I think it was carp, actually, the
1306
00:56:57.580 --> 00:56:59.720
Palantir guy, which we both also have bags
1307
00:56:59.720 --> 00:57:00.840
of. Look at that. You and me, kind
1308
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.700
of spirits. You kids. The idea that these
1309
00:57:04.700 --> 00:57:07.880
guys have any way out except nationalization is
1310
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:10.320
a fucking joke. Who's going to fucking buy
1311
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:13.240
these IPOs? This, by the way, this says
1312
00:57:13.240 --> 00:57:15.860
nothing of. They're saying about $2 trillion for
1313
00:57:15.860 --> 00:57:17.360
the IPO, which puts them at a PE
1314
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:19.780
ratio of 48. Good luck. Yeah, good luck
1315
00:57:19.780 --> 00:57:23.040
with that. Yeah, what's your plan? Your token
1316
00:57:23.040 --> 00:57:26.560
cost is. going to go to zero at
1317
00:57:26.560 --> 00:57:29.880
some point. That's the way, like energy efficiency,
1318
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.640
compute efficiency, say whatever you want about Moore's
1319
00:57:32.640 --> 00:57:35.040
law, okay? But like, it'll go to the
1320
00:57:35.040 --> 00:57:37.420
marginal cost of production. And so what is
1321
00:57:37.420 --> 00:57:38.700
that going to be? Energy input cost. And
1322
00:57:38.700 --> 00:57:40.080
what's that going to be? Less or more
1323
00:57:40.080 --> 00:57:41.720
than it is now. Like, everyone knows the
1324
00:57:41.720 --> 00:57:43.280
answer. This is, this is to say nothing
1325
00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.000
of like SMRs. They could, these guys could
1326
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:48.040
presumably build with a trillion. If people are
1327
00:57:48.040 --> 00:57:49.600
willing to give them a trillion dollars, they
1328
00:57:49.600 --> 00:57:51.840
could fucking do anything they want that's going
1329
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:53.100
to drive the cost now. And at some
1330
00:57:53.100 --> 00:57:54.800
point, that's what the consumer will expect. Because,
1331
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:55.880
the open models are going to go that
1332
00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:57.900
direction too. So I don't know what the
1333
00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.680
plan is for these guys. Who's buying the
1334
00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:02.100
IPO is my question? I don't fucking know.
1335
00:58:02.100 --> 00:58:03.360
It ain't going to be me. It will
1336
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:05.380
be it will be dumped on retail. People
1337
00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:07.420
will buy it. You saw with SpaceX. We
1338
00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:09.940
need now the money of the retail investor
1339
00:58:09.940 --> 00:58:12.340
only the like the last barrier. We cannot
1340
00:58:12.340 --> 00:58:14.980
find any private equity fund to give us
1341
00:58:14.980 --> 00:58:17.000
more money or we can't just shuffle the
1342
00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:19.820
same billions of dollars between Oracle and meta
1343
00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:21.600
and whatever. Like to do this, this whole
1344
00:58:21.600 --> 00:58:24.420
three card Monty thing for longer. In the
1345
00:58:24.420 --> 00:58:27.500
end, Maybe, you know, the United States government
1346
00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:29.220
comes in and says, yeah, we will, you
1347
00:58:29.220 --> 00:58:31.180
know, foot the bill and we can print
1348
00:58:31.180 --> 00:58:34.320
the money. Because I'm very bullish on an
1349
00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.040
open weight models. I'm very bullish on the,
1350
00:58:37.040 --> 00:58:39.880
you know, open source self -hosted way to
1351
00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:43.080
use AI, which is fine for like 90
1352
00:58:43.080 --> 00:58:45.780
% of use cases. I don't see myself
1353
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:48.060
paying like in our company, it returns, like
1354
00:58:48.060 --> 00:58:51.140
we pay thousands of dollars in AI tokens
1355
00:58:51.140 --> 00:58:53.340
right now. And then I see what it
1356
00:58:53.340 --> 00:58:55.200
would have cost me. It's like sometimes like
1357
00:58:55.200 --> 00:58:57.880
eight times more, 13 times more. And that's
1358
00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:00.240
not worth it. Like I won't be paying
1359
00:59:00.240 --> 00:59:02.420
that once the subsidy ends. I will look
1360
00:59:02.420 --> 00:59:05.760
into, you know, buying some hardware and running
1361
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.060
it locally. I'll just use Ben's server. I'm
1362
00:59:08.060 --> 00:59:09.360
not going to be paying for it. Whatever
1363
00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:10.820
it is. Yeah, no one's going to go
1364
00:59:10.820 --> 00:59:13.700
back. No one's going back. There will be
1365
00:59:13.700 --> 00:59:15.520
a Ben's Sessions tutorial on how to, you
1366
00:59:15.520 --> 00:59:17.760
know, do the same thing without half a
1367
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:22.120
trillion dollars. Exactly. Only a quarter trillion. Very
1368
00:59:22.120 --> 00:59:25.460
barriced on a traffic or open A. Yeah.
1369
00:59:25.460 --> 00:59:27.680
If I can get a quarter trillion dollar
1370
00:59:27.680 --> 00:59:30.620
sponsor to get me that hardware, just reach
1371
00:59:30.620 --> 00:59:32.720
out to me or Nathan and we'll get
1372
00:59:32.720 --> 00:59:36.180
your humming along. Walker. I do quickly want
1373
00:59:36.180 --> 00:59:37.420
to point out, because, Chris, you did bring
1374
00:59:37.420 --> 00:59:39.500
up SpaceX. I don't think it's fair to
1375
00:59:39.500 --> 00:59:42.380
put that in the same category, specifically because
1376
00:59:42.380 --> 00:59:44.920
we're talking about the physical versus the digital.
1377
00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:46.460
And that's actually a really important point when
1378
00:59:46.460 --> 00:59:48.180
it comes to analyzing what the marginal cost
1379
00:59:48.180 --> 00:59:50.320
of production is going to be. Now, the
1380
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:52.260
marginal cost of production for anything that primarily
1381
00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:54.860
lives in the digital will trend. towards zero
1382
00:59:54.860 --> 00:59:57.180
much faster. It will not, in the case
1383
00:59:57.180 --> 00:59:59.600
of compute, in the case of tokens, obviously
1384
00:59:59.600 --> 01:00:01.700
there is still a marginal cost. It will
1385
01:00:01.700 --> 01:00:04.840
not be zero unless energy is completely free,
1386
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:07.280
right? You still have to provide the compute.
1387
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:10.340
Okay. But it will trend towards zero, towards
1388
01:00:10.340 --> 01:00:13.080
zero, you know, asymptotically approaching zero like Bitcoin
1389
01:00:13.080 --> 01:00:17.180
asymptotally approaches 21 million Bitcoin, much more quickly
1390
01:00:17.180 --> 01:00:20.400
than something like the marginal cost of production
1391
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.220
of a fucking reusable rocket. it. Like, those
1392
01:00:23.220 --> 01:00:25.540
are fundamentally different paradigms. And I think it
1393
01:00:25.540 --> 01:00:26.960
is important to separate them. But it is
1394
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:28.600
what I want to double tap on is
1395
01:00:28.600 --> 01:00:31.220
the fact that the fact that these AI
1396
01:00:31.220 --> 01:00:34.860
companies primarily live in the digital means that,
1397
01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:37.160
like, I don't know if they've really factored
1398
01:00:37.160 --> 01:00:38.900
in. And you'd think, you know, you'd think
1399
01:00:38.900 --> 01:00:41.560
Astra and Opus and Fable and all these
1400
01:00:41.560 --> 01:00:42.800
things, they could, they could have figured this
1401
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:46.100
out for him. But like, their marginal costs
1402
01:00:46.100 --> 01:00:48.880
are going to, you know, they're going to
1403
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:53.520
just accelerate as they approach zero. Because also
1404
01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:56.500
like this is something where it's a lot
1405
01:00:56.500 --> 01:00:59.840
easier to hide costs when there's physical goods
1406
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:03.100
involved, right? That's why people launder money through
1407
01:01:03.100 --> 01:01:07.400
construction, through, you know, through fine art, through
1408
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:09.580
whatever else it might be. But it's a
1409
01:01:09.580 --> 01:01:11.340
lot, art is maybe a bad example in
1410
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:12.880
this context. Let's talk about construction. It's a
1411
01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:15.820
lot easier to hide the true cost in
1412
01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:17.520
that because there's real things associated that do
1413
01:01:17.520 --> 01:01:20.160
have real production costs. When it comes to
1414
01:01:20.160 --> 01:01:23.080
software, like, yes, the computer. is required. Yes,
1415
01:01:23.080 --> 01:01:25.280
the compute is real because it is, you
1416
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:26.680
know, it's not backed by energy, but it
1417
01:01:26.680 --> 01:01:30.240
is created with energy. You need the GPUs.
1418
01:01:30.240 --> 01:01:31.660
You need the server farms. You need the
1419
01:01:31.660 --> 01:01:35.420
energy inputs into that. But all of the
1420
01:01:35.420 --> 01:01:38.280
rest of it, since open source is hot
1421
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:41.940
on the heels, like, it becomes very difficult.
1422
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:43.680
Like, I guess, let's put it a different
1423
01:01:43.680 --> 01:01:49.060
way. If you open sourced chat GPT today,
1424
01:01:49.060 --> 01:01:51.720
the entire stack, you would be able to
1425
01:01:51.720 --> 01:01:53.940
have, People could use the open source chat
1426
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.540
GPT stack immediately and still just pay for
1427
01:01:55.540 --> 01:02:00.020
the compute. If you open source SpaceX today,
1428
01:02:00.020 --> 01:02:02.680
you can't just spin up another SpaceX. You
1429
01:02:02.680 --> 01:02:06.020
can't do it. You have physical constraints in
1430
01:02:06.020 --> 01:02:09.660
the real world. And just the fucking aesthetic.
1431
01:02:09.660 --> 01:02:14.040
The fucking SpaceX aesthetic, God bless America. What
1432
01:02:14.040 --> 01:02:17.540
a beautiful thing. Chris, I know that patriotism
1433
01:02:17.540 --> 01:02:18.860
is a little bit weird for you guys
1434
01:02:18.860 --> 01:02:20.420
to hear as Germans. But just so, you
1435
01:02:20.420 --> 01:02:23.120
know, in America, oh, boy, that is just,
1436
01:02:23.120 --> 01:02:25.800
that's fucking beautiful. Send that thing. Should I,
1437
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:29.020
should I remind you whose nationality was imported
1438
01:02:29.020 --> 01:02:31.140
to fly you to the moon? You don't
1439
01:02:31.140 --> 01:02:32.780
have to remind me. I don't have to
1440
01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:34.880
remind me one bit. Oh, I got a
1441
01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:36.280
paper clip over here somewhere. I just want
1442
01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:37.860
to point out that that was perfect timing
1443
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:40.580
with that post. Uh, the reason, I just
1444
01:02:40.580 --> 01:02:41.780
want you know, the reason that I found
1445
01:02:41.780 --> 01:02:43.140
this, and I saw this, this wonderful post
1446
01:02:43.140 --> 01:02:44.220
from Walker here is I was doing a
1447
01:02:44.220 --> 01:02:47.500
little bit of scrolling and still no collection
1448
01:02:47.500 --> 01:02:49.900
of essays. So just want to highlight there
1449
01:02:49.900 --> 01:02:53.940
were still missing the collection of essays. Jen?
1450
01:02:53.940 --> 01:02:57.540
All right. Thank you, though. I appreciate you.
1451
01:02:57.540 --> 01:02:58.900
I'm going to take us to one more
1452
01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:00.560
quick break. On the other side of it,
1453
01:03:00.560 --> 01:03:02.640
there's been a whole bunch of cybersecurity stuff
1454
01:03:02.640 --> 01:03:06.160
that's been going on, not the least of
1455
01:03:06.160 --> 01:03:09.840
which pertains to Apple. And so we're going
1456
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:12.680
to be chatting about that. Also, Canada had
1457
01:03:12.680 --> 01:03:16.560
a 30 -year bond auction, which didn't go
1458
01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:20.600
well. And very excited on my end in
1459
01:03:20.600 --> 01:03:22.840
regards to Grafine. I've been covering a bunch
1460
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:25.580
of stuff about that lately, but... Where do
1461
01:03:25.580 --> 01:03:28.600
you cover it, Ben? Over on, as a
1462
01:03:28.600 --> 01:03:31.080
matter of fact, thank you for mentioning. It's
1463
01:03:31.080 --> 01:03:33.800
just right over on Sovereign Sessions there. I
1464
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:36.240
don't know if somebody happens to have a
1465
01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:37.380
QR code that could throw it up on
1466
01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:39.320
the screen there, but... Wow. Let's probably check
1467
01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:41.460
it out. Yeah, yeah. Good mention, though. Good
1468
01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:45.640
call. But Graphene, no longer just a Google
1469
01:03:45.640 --> 01:03:49.020
Pixel option coming up as far as it
1470
01:03:49.020 --> 01:03:51.500
seems this November. So we'll chat about that
1471
01:03:51.500 --> 01:03:53.380
in just a moment. Everybody in the chat,
1472
01:03:53.380 --> 01:03:55.880
keep throwing those chairs. We'll be back in
1473
01:03:55.880 --> 01:03:59.660
just a moment. Don't leave your life savings
1474
01:03:59.660 --> 01:04:02.860
to chance. With Bitcoin, it is imperative that
1475
01:04:02.860 --> 01:04:06.100
your setup is both secure and accessible, not
1476
01:04:06.100 --> 01:04:08.380
just to yourself, but also to your family,
1477
01:04:08.380 --> 01:04:10.500
if anything, should happen to you. That's why
1478
01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:12.820
I've assembled a team of the best educators
1479
01:04:12.820 --> 01:04:15.440
on the planet over at BTC Mentor .io.
1480
01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:17.700
We help you make sure your Bitcoin setup
1481
01:04:17.700 --> 01:04:20.060
is rock solid. and we also help you
1482
01:04:20.060 --> 01:04:23.040
set up your freedom and sovereigns. tech, things
1483
01:04:23.040 --> 01:04:27.320
like privacy, self -hosted AI, and sovereign computing.
1484
01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:30.680
In a world of increasing surveillance and censorship,
1485
01:04:30.680 --> 01:04:32.680
isn't it time you leveled up? Head over
1486
01:04:32.680 --> 01:04:36.140
to btcmentor .io and book a call today.
1487
01:04:36.140 --> 01:04:37.900
When it comes to peer -to -peer trading
1488
01:04:37.900 --> 01:04:40.480
and lending, instant self -c custody and no
1489
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:43.480
KYC, hoddle -hottle is the place to be.
1490
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:44.940
You can sign up with just an email
1491
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:46.420
address, and once you're there, you can start
1492
01:04:46.420 --> 01:04:49.000
browsing offers immediately, whether you're looking to buy
1493
01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:50.880
and sell or whether you're looking to lend
1494
01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:52.920
or borrow. You can check them out today
1495
01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:57.580
at the links down below. All right, just
1496
01:04:57.580 --> 01:04:58.800
trying to find the link here in just
1497
01:04:58.800 --> 01:04:59.840
a second. But it seemed like we had
1498
01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:01.840
a Canadian bond auction where it did not
1499
01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:03.040
go well. We did not have a bunch
1500
01:05:03.040 --> 01:05:04.380
of buyers coming in. I think yields got
1501
01:05:04.380 --> 01:05:06.140
as high as like 4 .7 or something.
1502
01:05:06.140 --> 01:05:08.000
Joey, did you see that one? I'm looking
1503
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:15.280
right now. Yeah, they got up to 4
1504
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:18.420
.2, 4 .3, 4 .3. 4. Yeah, maybe
1505
01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:20.340
a little higher than that, 4 .5. I
1506
01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:23.240
don't know where it finished. But, I mean,
1507
01:05:23.240 --> 01:05:26.060
what can you really say about this, Nate?
1508
01:05:26.060 --> 01:05:28.520
That's what a failed. Who wants Canadian debt?
1509
01:05:28.520 --> 01:05:31.840
Who wants Canadian debt, right? People don't want
1510
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:33.700
a U .S. 10 -year treasury at 5
1511
01:05:33.700 --> 01:05:36.380
.3. That's right. So why did you look
1512
01:05:36.380 --> 01:05:37.940
at the failed state of Canada and the
1513
01:05:37.940 --> 01:05:39.800
rabbit hole that's going down with nothing in
1514
01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:40.960
reserves, that they want to get our energy
1515
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:43.480
or markets or resources to market? Like, you're
1516
01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:45.360
betting on the future taxpayer basically holding the
1517
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:46.720
bill for that and keeping the currency. Plus,
1518
01:05:46.720 --> 01:05:47.900
the loony looks like it's about to break
1519
01:05:47.900 --> 01:05:50.560
under 70 cents per U .S. Yeah. Which
1520
01:05:50.560 --> 01:05:52.120
hasn't happened in all. a long time. It's
1521
01:05:52.120 --> 01:05:55.000
been living in 72 for quite a while.
1522
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:56.400
And, you know, the interesting thing about this
1523
01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:59.400
is that Canada for all its shortcomings really
1524
01:05:59.400 --> 01:06:01.380
just has like has to do one thing
1525
01:06:01.380 --> 01:06:05.680
to fix everything switch, right? Start fucking using
1526
01:06:05.680 --> 01:06:09.580
the resources we have. Start going underground, start
1527
01:06:09.580 --> 01:06:12.700
exporting lumber, get these fucking commies in Quebec
1528
01:06:12.700 --> 01:06:15.280
and BC the fuck out of their governance
1529
01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:19.920
governance positions and start exporting commodities. I mean,
1530
01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:22.180
if you look at the Canadian bond, auctions
1531
01:06:22.180 --> 01:06:24.180
in the past and also the value of
1532
01:06:24.180 --> 01:06:25.340
the loony. You know, you can kind of
1533
01:06:25.340 --> 01:06:28.200
track these things together, but the sort of
1534
01:06:28.200 --> 01:06:29.680
like thread that ties them together, the true
1535
01:06:29.680 --> 01:06:32.860
correlative relationship is with the price of oil.
1536
01:06:32.860 --> 01:06:36.700
And Canada, for, for what it's worth, for
1537
01:06:36.700 --> 01:06:39.240
a long time, the dollar was at par
1538
01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:41.360
with the looney in my lifetime. You could
1539
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:43.700
go to the states and actually do well
1540
01:06:43.700 --> 01:06:46.780
using the Canadian dollar to fund your trip.
1541
01:06:46.780 --> 01:06:49.000
There's been times where it's been stronger than
1542
01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:50.880
the U .S. dollar. And it's always on
1543
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:53.840
the back commodity prices. But we spent now
1544
01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:56.200
close to 20 years refusing to really lean
1545
01:06:56.200 --> 01:06:58.680
into this. And this is the, this is
1546
01:06:58.680 --> 01:07:01.240
the response you get, right? So I don't
1547
01:07:01.240 --> 01:07:04.260
know if Carney is planning on making a
1548
01:07:04.260 --> 01:07:07.060
significant change to this policy. To his credit,
1549
01:07:07.060 --> 01:07:09.280
he seems unwilling to take no for an
1550
01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:13.400
answer on oil. The thing is that now
1551
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:15.340
you have this new sort of looming specter
1552
01:07:15.340 --> 01:07:17.700
real or imagined of the relationship with the
1553
01:07:17.700 --> 01:07:19.980
United States as far as trade. And I
1554
01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:21.720
think that most people understand, that we have
1555
01:07:21.720 --> 01:07:23.540
to get both these things right for people
1556
01:07:23.540 --> 01:07:25.740
to want to invest in Canada. Canada, at
1557
01:07:25.740 --> 01:07:30.540
the very least, is, you know, it is
1558
01:07:30.540 --> 01:07:32.200
sharing a roof with the United States in
1559
01:07:32.200 --> 01:07:35.340
a lot of ways, culturally economically. Yeah, you
1560
01:07:35.340 --> 01:07:36.480
know what I mean? And like, we can
1561
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:38.080
pretend that we're sovereign, and we are to
1562
01:07:38.080 --> 01:07:39.720
some extent. I do believe that, you know,
1563
01:07:39.720 --> 01:07:41.520
Canada's culture is unique to that in the
1564
01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:43.080
United States and the economy is unique to
1565
01:07:43.080 --> 01:07:45.140
that and the United States in some ways.
1566
01:07:45.140 --> 01:07:46.120
But we got to use it. If we
1567
01:07:46.120 --> 01:07:48.920
don't use it, then it doesn't matter what,
1568
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:51.420
you know, 51st state commentary comes out of
1569
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:52.860
the White House because at the end of
1570
01:07:52.860 --> 01:07:56.220
the day, those defining characteristics of the Canadian
1571
01:07:56.220 --> 01:07:59.440
economy are not being properly deployed and they're
1572
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:01.900
not helping Canadians. And, you know, the one
1573
01:08:01.900 --> 01:08:04.120
thing I'm going to be watching as far
1574
01:08:04.120 --> 01:08:07.060
as the debt auctions, sort of an adjacent,
1575
01:08:07.060 --> 01:08:09.920
adjacent, let's say, silo. But I want to
1576
01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:12.300
see what the CPP IB does as far
1577
01:08:12.300 --> 01:08:14.340
as performance over the next few years. Because
1578
01:08:14.340 --> 01:08:15.880
they've, if you want to talk about changing
1579
01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:18.780
metrics and things that affect the price of
1580
01:08:18.780 --> 01:08:21.240
the looney and the debt auction, the pensions,
1581
01:08:21.240 --> 01:08:22.900
the pensions, in Canada have changed their performance
1582
01:08:22.900 --> 01:08:25.180
metrics significantly now. They grade themselves on whether
1583
01:08:25.180 --> 01:08:26.620
or not they did a good job with
1584
01:08:26.620 --> 01:08:28.240
the information they had available at the time.
1585
01:08:28.240 --> 01:08:30.220
They don't look at returns. They don't benchmark
1586
01:08:30.220 --> 01:08:31.800
to the S &P. They don't do any
1587
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:32.820
of that stuff. Yeah, this is all, this
1588
01:08:32.820 --> 01:08:33.760
is all out there. You can look at
1589
01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:37.120
the CPPIB's website. Do it soon though, because
1590
01:08:37.120 --> 01:08:39.220
they are removing their old benchmarks from the
1591
01:08:39.220 --> 01:08:42.120
website slowly but surely. So it's something to
1592
01:08:42.120 --> 01:08:43.500
consider there. But anyway, all this stuff to
1593
01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:47.060
say that Canada, you know, wobbly right now.
1594
01:08:47.060 --> 01:08:49.080
But man, you know, this is going to
1595
01:08:49.080 --> 01:08:50.660
sound like there's someone else or like I'm
1596
01:08:50.660 --> 01:08:53.340
an AI, avatar of myself, I got to
1597
01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:55.000
tell you, if I got to pick between
1598
01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:57.580
what Carney is doing and what I've heard
1599
01:08:57.580 --> 01:09:00.240
from Paulyev on the stump, like I prefer
1600
01:09:00.240 --> 01:09:04.260
Carney's policy set around energy to Pollyevs. The
1601
01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:06.540
question is whether he can actually deploy some
1602
01:09:06.540 --> 01:09:09.680
capital, human or financial, to get EBO in
1603
01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:11.060
B .C. Because there's an election there coming
1604
01:09:11.060 --> 01:09:12.900
up, and I think about three weeks. There's
1605
01:09:12.900 --> 01:09:15.240
an election in British Columbia. And you got
1606
01:09:15.240 --> 01:09:16.760
to open that port and you got to
1607
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:19.760
open that land, that indigenous land, quote unquote
1608
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:23.260
indigenous land to pipelines you have to be
1609
01:09:23.260 --> 01:09:24.840
able to get that stuff out freely no
1610
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.820
friction and no additional cost that's what it's
1611
01:09:27.820 --> 01:09:29.780
going to take to bring us back from
1612
01:09:29.780 --> 01:09:31.900
the dead but it's doable just can we
1613
01:09:31.900 --> 01:09:32.940
can we pull it off i don't know
1614
01:09:32.940 --> 01:09:34.320
well joe even quickly just to hit that
1615
01:09:34.320 --> 01:09:36.460
for a second i think i at this
1616
01:09:36.460 --> 01:09:38.040
point in time i'd rather favor carnie over
1617
01:09:38.040 --> 01:09:39.160
polly yeah but not for the reasons that
1618
01:09:39.160 --> 01:09:40.700
you're stating because i don't want to pacify
1619
01:09:40.700 --> 01:09:42.560
the conservative or libertarians in this country any
1620
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:44.440
longer right he'll get in there and he'll
1621
01:09:44.440 --> 01:09:46.880
do absolutely nothing he'll do absolutely nothing completely
1622
01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:48.140
use this and shit will still be the
1623
01:09:48.140 --> 01:09:50.300
same i need them to realize what's going
1624
01:09:50.300 --> 01:09:51.600
on. I need them to actually feel a
1625
01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:53.020
little bit of pain. I didn't be embarrassed
1626
01:09:53.020 --> 01:09:54.980
about how Canada looks on a world stage
1627
01:09:54.980 --> 01:09:56.200
and how we're doing this. we should be
1628
01:09:56.200 --> 01:09:58.540
wealthier than Dubai. We should be off to
1629
01:09:58.540 --> 01:10:00.740
the bloody races and killing it. you got
1630
01:10:00.740 --> 01:10:02.020
a whole bunch of AI data centers. Oh
1631
01:10:02.020 --> 01:10:03.200
look, I got a cold space and a
1632
01:10:03.200 --> 01:10:05.380
shit ton of energy. welcome in. We'll take
1633
01:10:05.380 --> 01:10:07.120
all those trillions that you're borrowing from each
1634
01:10:07.120 --> 01:10:09.060
other. You'll be screwed and we'll be fine.
1635
01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:11.600
Like we cannot have this back and forth
1636
01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:13.320
between the two parties and think that you've
1637
01:10:13.320 --> 01:10:15.740
actually done something. He won't do anything. He's
1638
01:10:15.740 --> 01:10:17.920
absolutely dead in the water. So I don't
1639
01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:19.160
think that we're going to see any change.
1640
01:10:19.160 --> 01:10:24.500
for at least five, six years before people
1641
01:10:24.500 --> 01:10:27.520
start kind of understanding what's going on. Why?
1642
01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:30.000
Because what's the boogeyman that's been pointed at
1643
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.160
this entire time? Yeah, obviously. It's been like,
1644
01:10:32.160 --> 01:10:34.920
oh, it's the Canada sucks and it's because
1645
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:36.920
of Trump. And it's not because of the
1646
01:10:36.920 --> 01:10:40.020
same government we've elected for 11 years going.
1647
01:10:40.020 --> 01:10:43.140
And until he's no longer in office and
1648
01:10:43.140 --> 01:10:44.920
they don't have the same boogeyman to point
1649
01:10:44.920 --> 01:10:47.360
to, I'm sure they'll fabricate a new one.
1650
01:10:47.360 --> 01:10:49.640
But it's like, when you know, longer the
1651
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:52.200
thing that you said was the reason for
1652
01:10:52.200 --> 01:10:54.320
all your problems there staring you in the
1653
01:10:54.320 --> 01:10:56.800
face. It becomes what else could it possibly
1654
01:10:56.800 --> 01:11:00.020
be? And it gives a lot easier of
1655
01:11:00.020 --> 01:11:02.860
a talking point to everybody else being like,
1656
01:11:02.860 --> 01:11:04.040
well, you said it was this. Why does
1657
01:11:04.040 --> 01:11:07.680
it still suck ass so many years later?
1658
01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:10.380
So honestly, I would not be surprised if
1659
01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:14.080
we were in for another six, seven, eight
1660
01:11:14.080 --> 01:11:17.840
years of, you know, a liberal government here
1661
01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:19.180
in Canada. I got one of the thing
1662
01:11:19.180 --> 01:11:20.800
on this is that in Canada, we have
1663
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:23.780
a PBO parliamentary budget office, which is, you
1664
01:11:23.780 --> 01:11:26.300
know, an arm's length. And it's actually pretty,
1665
01:11:26.300 --> 01:11:28.720
it's pretty widely regarded in Canada as a
1666
01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:33.160
sober second thought on government budgetary actions and
1667
01:11:33.160 --> 01:11:37.460
claims. These guys give, it's like a 25
1668
01:11:37.460 --> 01:11:40.200
or 30 year debt reduction plan that Carney's
1669
01:11:40.200 --> 01:11:41.400
government came out with. They give it a
1670
01:11:41.400 --> 01:11:44.880
1 % chance of succeeding. So, I mean,
1671
01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:47.240
you can make of that what you will.
1672
01:11:47.240 --> 01:11:50.460
Carleney fired the last parliamentary budget officer sort
1673
01:11:50.460 --> 01:11:54.400
of unceremoniously. And then in the set of
1674
01:11:54.400 --> 01:11:56.040
characteristics, he said he was looking for in
1675
01:11:56.040 --> 01:11:57.440
the next one, it was someone who wasn't
1676
01:11:57.440 --> 01:12:00.280
quite as outgoing and talkative. And, you know,
1677
01:12:00.280 --> 01:12:02.380
I read that as someone who won't, you
1678
01:12:02.380 --> 01:12:04.800
know, publicly criticize. Yes, man, a sycophant. Yeah,
1679
01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:07.620
someone who won't publicly criticize the parliamentarians. But
1680
01:12:07.620 --> 01:12:09.220
anyway, 1%, I don't know, is that good
1681
01:12:09.220 --> 01:12:11.220
or bad? I guess it could be zero,
1682
01:12:11.220 --> 01:12:15.240
you know? So you're saying there's a chance.
1683
01:12:15.240 --> 01:12:17.000
I want to bring up one. thing I
1684
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:20.300
just kind of staying on the Canada train
1685
01:12:20.300 --> 01:12:22.860
but then pivoting Europeans so we can get
1686
01:12:22.860 --> 01:12:26.040
our token European in the room to comment.
1687
01:12:26.040 --> 01:12:30.620
But on the other side of things that
1688
01:12:30.620 --> 01:12:34.980
impact us all, Bill C -22, this was
1689
01:12:34.980 --> 01:12:38.040
the legal access law here in Canada, basically
1690
01:12:38.040 --> 01:12:41.400
saying like, hey, you know, we can break
1691
01:12:41.400 --> 01:12:44.840
encryption and spy on anything through any device
1692
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:49.380
whenever you want, whenever we want. And again,
1693
01:12:49.380 --> 01:12:51.020
here from Michael Geist, for months, the government
1694
01:12:51.020 --> 01:12:54.380
insisted Bill C -22 was encryption -neutral and
1695
01:12:54.380 --> 01:12:58.960
dismissed warnings from tech companies as misinformation. The
1696
01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:03.380
minister now says the bill has a, quote,
1697
01:13:03.380 --> 01:13:09.860
minor opening on encryption in extenuating circumstances. So
1698
01:13:09.860 --> 01:13:13.760
if there's any opening in the encryption, that
1699
01:13:13.760 --> 01:13:16.380
means that you can And it's, it's, you
1700
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:19.480
can bypass the encryption. And if the quote
1701
01:13:19.480 --> 01:13:23.220
unquote good guys in the, in law enforcement
1702
01:13:23.220 --> 01:13:27.060
and the government can get into your device,
1703
01:13:27.060 --> 01:13:30.680
anybody can use the same backdoor to get
1704
01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:33.700
into your device. And so we're just seeing
1705
01:13:33.700 --> 01:13:36.440
this kind of bullshit coming up again and
1706
01:13:36.440 --> 01:13:38.220
again. They're going to keep on trying. And
1707
01:13:38.220 --> 01:13:41.360
honestly, I think they're, they'll get it through.
1708
01:13:41.360 --> 01:13:44.140
But in that same vein on the other
1709
01:13:44.140 --> 01:13:47.700
side, across the pond. We did see chat
1710
01:13:47.700 --> 01:13:52.560
control 2 .0 get blocked again. So this
1711
01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:56.280
is Luda. She actually, she's been at a
1712
01:13:56.280 --> 01:13:59.280
lot of human rights foundation stuff in the
1713
01:13:59.280 --> 01:14:01.020
in the Bitcoin space. A lot of the
1714
01:14:01.020 --> 01:14:06.560
Bitcoin conferences and stuff, utilizing that in post
1715
01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:10.300
-Soviet states to kind of fund and get
1716
01:14:10.300 --> 01:14:14.120
past a lot of these restrictions and around
1717
01:14:14.120 --> 01:14:19.620
moving money. Nonetheless, so they said that the
1718
01:14:19.620 --> 01:14:22.760
EU Council, counsel wanted voluntary scanning of all
1719
01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:26.360
private chats under search plans, approved automatically unless
1720
01:14:26.360 --> 01:14:30.500
authority vetoes. They wanted administrative authorities, not courts,
1721
01:14:30.500 --> 01:14:34.820
ordering providers to scan private messages, making the
1722
01:14:34.820 --> 01:14:38.780
failed chat control 1 .0 mass scanning regime
1723
01:14:38.780 --> 01:14:42.020
permanent while admitting it was not effective, so
1724
01:14:42.020 --> 01:14:44.020
and so forth. Anyways, it got slapped down
1725
01:14:44.020 --> 01:14:47.420
today. I'm certain they're going to try again,
1726
01:14:47.420 --> 01:14:49.140
but Chris, I wanted to get any quick
1727
01:14:49.140 --> 01:14:53.100
thoughts that you might have on this. Yeah,
1728
01:14:53.100 --> 01:14:54.520
I mean, I'm not that bullish on the
1729
01:14:54.520 --> 01:14:59.060
EU government. The EU commission usually, yeah, and
1730
01:14:59.060 --> 01:15:01.400
acts very weird laws and then backtracks it,
1731
01:15:01.400 --> 01:15:04.360
and then we still have this debt all
1732
01:15:04.360 --> 01:15:08.440
around us. Yeah, use proper encryption, use signal
1733
01:15:08.440 --> 01:15:11.240
messaging chats. Don't use telegram or whatever. And
1734
01:15:11.240 --> 01:15:12.960
then you should be fine. Like I always
1735
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:17.040
laugh when I talk to people. publishing software.
1736
01:15:17.040 --> 01:15:20.140
In every European country, there are different laws.
1737
01:15:20.140 --> 01:15:24.740
In France, certain encryption schemes are illegal. You're
1738
01:15:24.740 --> 01:15:26.840
not allowed to use them. You have to
1739
01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:28.900
declare them and they have to be approved.
1740
01:15:28.900 --> 01:15:32.340
So they literally try to make math illegal
1741
01:15:32.340 --> 01:15:36.680
in some cases. And I've just given up
1742
01:15:36.680 --> 01:15:38.940
on, you know, just entertaining that folly. You
1743
01:15:38.940 --> 01:15:42.380
know, we have the tools. We have the
1744
01:15:42.380 --> 01:15:45.220
internet. We do not have to. gets an
1745
01:15:45.220 --> 01:15:48.120
approved whatever encryption scheme for our chat so
1746
01:15:48.120 --> 01:15:51.240
that the government can read our messages. Is
1747
01:15:51.240 --> 01:15:53.520
that include the back chat? Math is not
1748
01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:55.820
legal in America, just so you know. I
1749
01:15:55.820 --> 01:15:57.040
mean, if they, if they get, if they
1750
01:15:57.040 --> 01:15:59.060
get, Walker, Walker is just, you know, screen
1751
01:15:59.060 --> 01:16:01.560
capping that anyways and sharing the other chants
1752
01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:04.880
that he's in. Yeah, we need to encrypt
1753
01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:10.560
that stuff for sure. Man, hello, prison. Um,
1754
01:16:10.560 --> 01:16:12.680
nonetheless, a couple of last things to hit
1755
01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:17.500
on here. Um, in regards to. to cybersecurity,
1756
01:16:17.500 --> 01:16:21.220
Apple, here we go. Critical Apple core graphics
1757
01:16:21.220 --> 01:16:25.800
zero day vulnerability actively exploited in attacks. So
1758
01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:29.260
they released some updates. The security issue affects
1759
01:16:29.260 --> 01:16:32.680
the core graphics framework, a fundamental Apple component
1760
01:16:32.680 --> 01:16:36.240
responsible for rendering graphics, images, and documents across
1761
01:16:36.240 --> 01:16:40.540
iPhones and iPads. If successfully exploited, it allows
1762
01:16:40.540 --> 01:16:44.820
attackers to execute arbitrary code on a vulnerable
1763
01:16:44.820 --> 01:16:47.760
device by convincing a victim to process a
1764
01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:52.420
maliciously crafted file. So if you see updates
1765
01:16:52.420 --> 01:16:57.840
for your iPhone, iPad, update ASAP, please, and
1766
01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:01.060
just to tag onto that, Pentagon data breach,
1767
01:17:01.060 --> 01:17:03.260
they confirmed a major data breach involving a
1768
01:17:03.260 --> 01:17:09.240
defense manpower data center information system exposing sensitive
1769
01:17:09.240 --> 01:17:12.600
personal information belonging to more than 3 million
1770
01:17:12.600 --> 01:17:19.800
people. So fun times all around. And just
1771
01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:22.300
to give a quick little pivot on stuff
1772
01:17:22.300 --> 01:17:26.000
that I've found interesting in and around keeping
1773
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:28.620
your chats, trying to keep your chats safe.
1774
01:17:28.620 --> 01:17:30.160
We were just talking about chat control and
1775
01:17:30.160 --> 01:17:33.800
all of that. Testing out radar, which is
1776
01:17:33.800 --> 01:17:37.220
a fork of signal with built -in Bitcoin
1777
01:17:37.220 --> 01:17:41.500
payments. So pretty cool. Also, encrypting the back
1778
01:17:41.500 --> 01:17:45.780
chat. There's that weird bug though. Yeah, there
1779
01:17:45.780 --> 01:17:49.260
is a weird bug apparently. It renames you
1780
01:17:49.260 --> 01:17:51.760
to things that you don't want to be
1781
01:17:51.760 --> 01:17:56.040
named. Nonetheless. And one other thing on my
1782
01:17:56.040 --> 01:18:01.400
radar here, which would be, yeah, graphene, no
1783
01:18:01.400 --> 01:18:05.260
longer pixel only, the new Motorola phone. I
1784
01:18:05.260 --> 01:18:07.700
think this is coming out in November is
1785
01:18:07.700 --> 01:18:10.180
going to be graphene friendly. So I'm going
1786
01:18:10.180 --> 01:18:12.080
to be grabbing one of these the second
1787
01:18:12.080 --> 01:18:13.340
it comes out so that I can do
1788
01:18:13.340 --> 01:18:16.760
a video on graphene on the new Motorola
1789
01:18:16.760 --> 01:18:20.180
signature 27, which looks kind of nice. So
1790
01:18:20.180 --> 01:18:23.860
anyways, gents, I'll leave that there. Any quick
1791
01:18:23.860 --> 01:18:30.200
thoughts on anything that's there on the bucket?
1792
01:18:30.200 --> 01:18:32.280
I'd just like to say that, Chris, when
1793
01:18:32.280 --> 01:18:34.460
you're ready to be a refugee, we'll happily
1794
01:18:34.460 --> 01:18:36.360
take you here in America. Just so you
1795
01:18:36.360 --> 01:18:38.200
know, we've already got provisions set up for
1796
01:18:38.200 --> 01:18:39.700
the Canadians over there. but as the only
1797
01:18:39.700 --> 01:18:41.340
American on the stream, I'd just like to
1798
01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:44.640
say, let's get back to, you know, we,
1799
01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:46.380
you're the kind of immigrant I like. You
1800
01:18:46.380 --> 01:18:48.460
know what I mean? Hardworking is what I
1801
01:18:48.460 --> 01:18:52.360
mean. Just to clarify. If anything, you just
1802
01:18:52.360 --> 01:18:54.880
want, you know, American -made memes. Are you
1803
01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:57.980
from, are you East German or West German,
1804
01:18:57.980 --> 01:19:00.640
Chris? Just, you know, put the reunification stuff
1805
01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:04.960
aside. How do you identify? I am so
1806
01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:09.920
Western that I'm almost French. Oh. Oh. explains
1807
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:15.620
everything. All right, gents. This has been a
1808
01:19:15.620 --> 01:19:17.120
great chat. Before that, Ben, I just want
1809
01:19:17.120 --> 01:19:19.420
to quickly hide out. Just to, something we
1810
01:19:19.420 --> 01:19:21.140
were talking about earlier, I was wrong about
1811
01:19:21.140 --> 01:19:23.580
the bond market. I think we're going to
1812
01:19:23.580 --> 01:19:27.040
be fine. Kramer is buying bonds. So someone's
1813
01:19:27.040 --> 01:19:29.720
getting in there and getting those high yields.
1814
01:19:29.720 --> 01:19:34.780
Holy hell, man. All right, gents, thank you
1815
01:19:34.780 --> 01:19:37.780
so much. Great convo. Chris, thank you for
1816
01:19:37.780 --> 01:19:40.600
being here. staying up late to be part
1817
01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:42.540
of the chat. Everybody that's been here in
1818
01:19:42.540 --> 01:19:43.860
the chat, thank you guys for being here
1819
01:19:43.860 --> 01:19:45.560
as well. Slap that like button, give a
1820
01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:48.660
share. And we're out of here. I'm Ben.
1821
01:19:48.660 --> 01:19:51.040
This was Joey, Walker, Nathan, and Chris. And
1822
01:19:51.040 --> 01:19:54.660
this was Bitcast. See you guys next time.
1823
01:19:54.660 --> 01:19:56.600
You know the world is heading down a
1824
01:19:56.600 --> 01:20:01.180
dark path. Online censorship, central bank digital currencies,
1825
01:20:01.180 --> 01:20:03.480
a complete loss of privacy, and it's only
1826
01:20:03.480 --> 01:20:06.300
accelerating. Most people are falling behind with the
1827
01:20:06.300 --> 01:20:09.380
latest technology. And those that aren't. are sacrificing
1828
01:20:09.380 --> 01:20:11.980
their data, their control, and their dignity just
1829
01:20:11.980 --> 01:20:15.360
to keep up. That doesn't have to be
1830
01:20:15.360 --> 01:20:17.900
you. Here, you'll have everything you need to
1831
01:20:17.900 --> 01:20:20.360
break free. Over the past decade, I've helped
1832
01:20:20.360 --> 01:20:23.360
20 million people take control of their money,
1833
01:20:23.360 --> 01:20:25.960
their data, and their digital lives. Now I'm
1834
01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:29.020
bringing everything I've learned to one place. Sovereign
1835
01:20:29.020 --> 01:20:31.440
Sessions is your home to learn, master, and
1836
01:20:31.440 --> 01:20:36.280
live freedom tech. Bitcoin, AI, private communications, self
1837
01:20:36.280 --> 01:20:39.780
-hosted tools, everything. I'll walk you through step
1838
01:20:39.780 --> 01:20:42.580
by step with the most critical tools that
1839
01:20:42.580 --> 01:20:45.720
put you back in charge. Don't ask permission,
1840
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:50.060
take control. Welcome to the Sovereign Sessions.