Ask The Dog!

WEBVTT
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Oh gosh darn it.
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Okay.
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Watch your mouth, Steve.
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I know.
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I kind of go crazy at times.
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You're gonna have to rein it in a little bit.
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Okay, let's go.
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Welcome, Hive Mind.
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We are buzzing with excitement about today's guest, a repeat offender here at the Behavior Buzz, Steve Dale.
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Steve's joining us to talk about his new children's book called Ask the Dog.
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And this is the Behavior Buzz, a veterinary behavior podcast that aims to bring cutting-edge scientific information and education to pet parents, behavior professionals, and the veterinary community.
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I'm your co-host, Dr.
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Amy Pike, a board-certified veterinary behaviorist.
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I'm your other co-host, Dr.
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Amy Lern, also a board-certified veterinary behaviorist, and I love, love this book.
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In fact, I was thinking about it this morning when I was walking my dog, who is a one-year-old can of corso, and he's 110 pounds, and I have to ask him constantly on the walk what he wants to do.
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Not so much about people interacting with him, but which way should we go, bud?
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Does that scare you, bud?
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What do you want to do now, bud?
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And he's just observing the world and making his choices.
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So I love giving a voice to those animals, and I think this is a really important theme.
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So I'm really excited to get started about this.
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Um we have to do a little uh formalities first, so let's get through those as quickly as we can.
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We are obviously coming to you live as always from the PRN PharmaCal Studios, our super fancy studios that you get to hopefully you enjoyed your stay in our green room and love the comfy couch that you're on right now.
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The food, all the food, all the people that are waiting on you hand in foot.
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You guys know what PRN stands for, right?
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Um, I'm gonna guess it stands for Petting Regulations Needed.
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Oh, nice job.
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That was a good one.
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Right?
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Actually, you're wrong, but that was a really, really good one.
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Damn it.
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Yeah, it is a Latin phrase you may have expected, that means as the circumstance arises, and PRN has been helping the veterinary community for a really long time.
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Not as long as I've been around, maybe not as long as any of us have been around, because we're uh goody goody oldies, oldies and goodies and goodies.
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But do you know how long they have been um helping the veterinary community with industry-leading research and innovative products to improve animal health and quality of life?
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Yes, actually, since 1978.
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And did you know that in 1978, Congress actually introduced several amendments to the Animal Welfare Act, specifically addressing the treatment of animals, including legislation aimed at prohibiting coursing, which is using dogs to pursue another live animal.
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Several related bills were introduced that summer.
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And so 1978 is the year we started asking what dogs want, and PRN started asking what the veterinary industry needed.
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PRN PharmaCal is a proud sponsor of the Behavior Buds podcast and is committed to the physical and emotional health of animals everywhere, which makes sense why their slogan is PRN PharmaCal, here when you need us.
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You worked on that one a lot.
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I really did.
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I did a deep dive in the research.
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I know.
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That was really super fun.
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Well, I feel bad.
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We've been leaving Steve out, and this is the most important guest.
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So let's get started by finding uh what is getting us all buzzed this morning and ready to take a part in this amazing conversation.
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I also did a deep dive and I wanted a relationship theme cocktail.
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So I looked under like Valentine's Day, and some of those went really, really the wrong way.
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But I found one called First Impressions, which is gin, pomegranate, elder flower, and sparkling water for a little fizz.
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Oh, nice.
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Well, I'm my typical exhausted self, so I'm doing an espresso martini today.
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What about you, Steve?
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What's getting you good?
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I just got whatever was in my refrigerator, which is one of these things that just got a free plug.
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Yeah, I love it.
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It's a non-caffeinated something because they say if I have caffeine, I'm dangerous.
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So me too.
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Me too.
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We're one of a kind.
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True.
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Two of a kind.
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And I would want to say, and I've got nothing to do, I mean, they're a sponsor of yours, but I am so grateful to PRN because there is now a drug, and we're here to talk about dogs, and we will, uh, but there is now a uh pharmacological solution for feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy that is non-clinical.
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And uh it is conditionally approved by the Food and Drug Administration Center for Veterinary Medicine.
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So the number one cause of death in dogs and cats is behavior, as you talk about frequently.
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Yes.
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But number two on that list for cats is heart disease, specifically this kind of heart disease.
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And uh happily it won't be number two for much longer because of this drug.
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And I'm part of the backstory for which I'm very, very proud of.
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Also, I am a fan of Reconcile, which is another product they make that both of you I know love.
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Yes, yes, yeah, take it like candy.
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Yeah, one for me, one for you.
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It is for dogs, and um such issues as separation, anxiety, and again, different conversation than the one we're about to have.
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But it really, really, I think works better than generic fluoxity.
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100%.
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That is just my perspective, my experience, but also in talking to so many others.
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So I they're a terrific sponsor to have.
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Yes, we love them.
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We are grateful for them every day.
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Yeah.
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Uh and Dr.
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Jill Sackman, um, and her trainer, I cannot remember her name.
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Jen, right?
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Jen just presented at VBS.
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Um, they did a poster session on the fact that reconcile was more bioavailable um than phlooxetine, which was surprised.
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Yeah, made made for people.
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So there's science behind it now, which is good.
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Yes, yes, absolutely.
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Although I've had a person, I've had a person take their dogs reconcile because they were on the same dose and they ran out of their Rosac.
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And it was like, yeah.
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It was like, so how did it taste?
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He's like, it tasted terrible.
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So disgusting.
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They never do that again, will you?
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Oh my goodness.
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It's not.
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I know people are so strange.
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For one thing, it's not fair to the dog.
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I know.
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That's what I think about.
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But it's probably not a healthy thing for them to do.
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No, I can't imagine that it tastes very good.
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But remember, Hive Mind, you can find all of our signature cocktail and mocktail recipes on our website, Behavior Buzz with six Z.
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So let's dive right in.
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We talked a little bit about 1978.
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That was a significant year for animal welfare legislation, as Amy Pike told us just recently.
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Nearly 50 years later.
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Nearly, nearly 50 years later.
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It's crazy.
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We were talking about something that sounds deceptively simple, asking the dog, right?
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Welfare means like ask the dog.
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We should all know what everybody's feeling and what everybody's thinking and treat them with respect.
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What inspired you to write Ask the Dog?
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And why did you feel like this was a story that needed to be told specifically to children?
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Uh first of all, thank you.
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Uh, I'm humbled, really, that you guys said, you're a veterinary behaviorist.
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You probably know that.
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But that you've heard that.
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But that you guys say this book is okay.
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Have me here.
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What's more, I can do better.
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Jen Goodall said the same.
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Yeah.
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And I I'm so grateful.
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Unfortunately, she passed away before she was able to write the blur, but her people, her people, said, go ahead and use a quote that she had previously given me.
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The American Veterinary Medical Association, they never endorse books ever.
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Because everyone comes to them for that.
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So they've made it a policy for decades and decades.
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And they endorse this book.
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That's awesome.
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So I am Patricia McConnell, who is revered as a PhD behaviorist.
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And she wrote the foreword.
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And the forward to a kid's book is three sentences, but nevertheless, she did do that for me, and I am grateful to her for that.
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The idea came from this.
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There I am down the street from where I'm at right now with our little dog.
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She at that point was about 15 or 16 years old.
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There's another dog next to us.
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She doesn't care about that other dog.
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She's just sniffing at the grass, right?
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The other dog didn't care about me or our dog.
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Uh I'd say a 25-30-pound mixed-breed dog of some sort.
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Just sniffing at the grass, too.
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They're about to walk away.
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The other dog and the lady at the other end of the leash of that other dog, when she looks at me, I don't know her, and says, out of the blue, don't you want to pet my dog?
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And what?
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And I look away.
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Come online.
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Yeah, right.
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Maybe that's what it was all about.
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I don't know.
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And I look at the dog and I said, No, thank you.
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At which one she gave me this nasty look.
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Like, what do you mean?
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You don't like dogs?
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So you guys would know.
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I mean, and most veterinary professionals may know.
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All the dog was doing was not giving me eye contact, even though I was standing right there.
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Even though I moved like a quarter of a step closer, maybe, maybe, maybe that much, not even to the dog.
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Dog was looking the other way, was kind of stiff, was pulling to the other end, in fact, of the leash in the opposite direction.
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Dog wasn't growling or barking or doing any other obvious signaling.
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But to me, this was obvious.
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Yes.
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And to the dog it was obvious, which is maybe most important.
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In any which case, when I said no, thank you, she just like gave me this nasty look and began to walk away.
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Now, why did the dog do that?
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And would the dog have bitten me?
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So it gave me an idea.
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Probably because dogs are not are as tolerant, are as tolerant as they are.
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This dog would not have bitten me, but who knows?
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Who knows?
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The dog, why was it not wanting to interact with me?
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And clearly to me, it was clear.
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And it was clear to the dog.
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This dog.
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Yeah, this dog was saying no, thank you.
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Now, maybe lunch was in the other direction.
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Right.
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And the dog was just hungry.
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Maybe there was a Starbucks down the street, and maybe the dog was ready for a pup cup.
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That's right.
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I mean, maybe the dog didn't like strangers, which is why the lady said in the first place, don't you want to pet my dog, as she was trying to get people to pet her dog.
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It doesn't matter why.
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I know that dog bites, and and we could talk more about this, are likely at an all-time high in this country.
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We have more dogs than ever before, but the number of dog bites is superseding percentage-wise, including dog bite fatalities, have never been so high.
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So we've got all that going.
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And I thought, you know what?
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I need to talk about this.
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And it occurred to me at that point, we've been taught to ask, can I pet your dog?
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This lady certainly would have said, Yeah, absolutely.
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The dog was saying no.
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And that made me think of the concept, ask the dog.
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We know that we've had two sort of initiatives about dog bites over the many, many, many decades, as far as I can find.
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One is ask, can I pet your dog?
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Perfectly sensible thing to do.
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I'm not arguing that.
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The other is socializing dogs in the first place so they're less likely to bite.
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Understanding that critical or important period of socialization, which John Fuller and John Paul Scott did in the 19 early 1960s.
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I got to interview once John Paul Scott.
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Yeah, iconic.
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He was at the University of Chicago.
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He was in his 80s at that point.
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But I did go, drove down to the University of Chicago, not too far from where I live, really, and uh sat down for whatever it was, uh, an hour and a half, two hours.
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It was wild.
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Oh, that's great.
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Very lengthy conversation.
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He gave me some of his monographs, I think they're called, as a gift, and he was very kind.
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But this guy and John Fuller, long, both of them long since passed away now, discovered that, oh yeah, there is a time when we need to socialize the dogs.
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Dr.
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Ian Dunbar, who's very much still around, picked up on that notion and said, Why don't we begin puppy training classes at that point?
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All of those things help to minimize dog bites.
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But we forgot something officially in all of that to talk about with the general public.
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And that is to ask the dog.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's not necessarily about asking the owner.
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I love, I love the title.
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Um, such a great concept.
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So, what exactly does it mean to ask the dog rather than simply assuming we know what a dog is thinking or feeling, or as the owner, projecting what you want for your pet.
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Yes.
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Yeah, go ahead, it's fine.
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Go ahead and pet my dog.
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Well, how often have you guys heard that?
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Or my dog is just in a bad mood, you know?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And and you know, well, they're in my you guys see the worst of the worst very often.
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Sure.
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So, and it's often a last resort that they come to see you in the first place, right?
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You know, so when they say, Oh, my dog's just having a bad day, I'm thinking, you're thinking, you'll have to tell me, that inside your head, you're saying, uh no, this dog has done this before.
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Yeah, that's why you're here in the first place, you know.
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So let me go back a little bit and answer one question that you asked, uh, Amy.
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They're both shaking their head.
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Yeah, Dr.
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Learn specifically asked why was it why was it a kid's book?
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And um, it's because most or at least half, because those numbers are squishy, of all dog bites do have in the children.
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And oftentimes, incidentally, it's the child that lives with the dog, which is something I'd like to talk about that isn't talked about very often.
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And that is the dog's perspective on all this.
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But to answer your question, dogs are communicating with us all the time, constantly.
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So uh the dog laying at your side, even is communicating.
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And you wouldn't think, how is that dog communicating?
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But that dog may be communicating, I'm just laying here and don't want to really be touched.
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That dog may be communicating, I'm just exhausted.
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That dog may be communicating, please come over, you know, because the dog is literally doing this with its paw.
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I want to be petted right now, or is talking to you at the same time, going, you know, however, that wasn't very good, was it?
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And saying, please come over and I want to interact with you.
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I mean, dogs are always communicating, even oftentimes when you are pretty sure they're not, they probably are, uh, whether they're comfortable or not, whether they're in pain or not, potentially.
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So, all of these things, dogs are always communicating.
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:52.559
And most certainly when you're walking down the street, you see a dog you don't know.
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:00.720
But even for our own dog, so him, how many of even you watching, as veterinary professionals, admit this, you might be guilty of this.
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.679
You have a dog, let's say it's a smaller dog, right?
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:14.639
And you're watching television and you're bored with that reality show, or maybe commercials have come on, and the dog is sitting below you, but not on the couch or sofa with you.
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:16.960
You scoop up the dog.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:21.200
Yes, and the dog is squirming a little bit, saying, I don't really want to do this.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:29.279
I'd rather just be where I am, uh, but you don't care, or you're not reading the signals, whatever, you you scoop up that dog.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.840
Doesn't mean that dog will bite you, of course not.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:41.600
In part because dogs are incredibly tolerant, and just because, you know, the dog also probably loves you, which is something else.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:54.240
So there's a couple things in this book, and a couple things I talk about that aren't in the book, and one of the things I talk about that isn't in the book is that how do dogs feel when they do bite us?
00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:55.679
Our own dogs.
00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:02.399
How many dogs get up in the morning and say, I love that person, but I can't wait to bite her?
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:02.960
Right.
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:03.360
Yeah.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:05.200
Gonna bite them today.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.920
Possibly my Airedale.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:10.640
Yeah, maybe, maybe that line dog, yeah.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.799
But do dogs, not dogs we don't know as much, but even they.
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:21.279
The bite is often the last thing that they do.
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.119
When you guys speak at conferences, you speak about the ladder of aggression, right?
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:25.519
Right.
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.480
And the bite isn't the first thing on that ladder, right?
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:34.799
There's all these other signals, you know, whether the paws lifted or the yawn happens or whatever.
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:37.359
There's all these other signals that come first.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:43.039
And then ultimately, unless you're a Sharpeer, chow chow, but even they, yeah.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:52.400
Even those guys, uh, there's there's something they're they're turning on that left turn signal, they're putting their hand out to say I'm making a left turn first.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.279
They don't necessarily just go in for the bite.
00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:00.880
And I wonder if they actually say, I tried, I tried, I tried.
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:07.200
They don't, of course, say this, but I wonder if, in a sense, they're thinking, I tried, I tried, I tried.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.759
I warned them, I love them, but I just couldn't take it anymore.
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.200
I was pushed to my limit and I had to bite.
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:16.640
And then they feel remorse.
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:18.000
I don't know that answer.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:20.240
I'm curious as to what you guys think.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:25.519
Well, I think, you know, across species, aggression is not favorable.
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.599
People don't want to get in fights.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.680
Animals don't want to get into fights because they risk injury themselves, right?
00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:32.880
That is not sustainable.
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.559
So if they want to live a long, healthy life, they want to avoid fights.
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.319
And some species more than others, right?
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:44.880
But in general, that is that is the mindset because I want to be live have a long longevity.
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:51.759
So the fight, the aggression, the conflict is gonna be the last thing that they are forced to do.
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.559
I've tried, I tried, I tried, I can't stand it anymore.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.880
I'm at my threshold, and now I have to go in and actually physically intervene.
00:18:58.960 --> 00:18:59.200
Right.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:00.720
Even though I didn't want to.
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.599
Yeah.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:02.400
Yeah.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.759
The concept of remorse, though, like let's talk about that.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.680
Because um, do they, you know, like we always say that guilty look.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:10.799
That guilty look.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:12.559
Oh, and that's not guilt.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:13.279
We know that.
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:14.319
Right.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:14.720
Exactly.
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.440
It's not guilt.
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:22.400
So do they actually feel remorse might might not be the right word, but do they feel badly when they did it?
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.920
Or maybe, because I don't know, maybe remorse is the right word.
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:26.640
Yeah, I don't know.
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.559
I don't know if they feel bad that they did it, like I'm sorry I did it to you.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.359
I think they're like, God, I wish I didn't have to do that.
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.039
Yeah, I don't feel good now.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:35.920
I didn't like that.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.119
I didn't like doing that.
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:47.200
Well, and then most often too, after a bite, they're being yelled at, they're being well, you know, put in another room, like the human factor, right, plays a role in that too.
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:48.240
So sure.
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.720
Um, yeah, that's an interesting concept.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:59.039
And something else I talk about in the book that I thought I might get pushback on, and that is hugging.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.160
Oh, yeah.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.200
So I talk about a lot of the reasons for dog bites.
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.160
And there's actually a national hug your dog day.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:13.839
You will see me out on the street with a uh picket saying, Stop hugging the dogs.
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:19.920
Um, and I don't have to tell this audience is you know, dogs aren't primates, most don't enjoy being hugged.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:21.680
I'd argue some do.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.720
So let me we had one of those dogs.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:32.240
So there we had this was years ago because this dog has been passed away for too long, you know.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:38.880
Uh her name was Ethel, and she was a mixed breed of everything, just a gorgeous dog.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.599
And as one example, we hire a plumber because we had a problem.
00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:46.000
Well, let me rephrase that.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.960
It wasn't a personal problem, our kitchen sink had a problem.
00:20:49.440 --> 00:21:01.839
So, so the plumber is there, and our dog, and he's on the ground because he's doing whatever he's doing with the equipment that he's doing it with, you know.
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:10.319
Our dog walks right up to him, and he's already on the ground, and he's got this equipment or whatever he has in his hands, and the dog is right here.
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:16.079
You can't help then, but put your arms, if you like dogs, right, around this dog.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:16.640
Right.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:21.359
The dog was putting this person in a position, and Lord knows why.
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.839
Because hugging on human terms can mean affection.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:32.079
Why you'd have affection for this what this guy charged us to do his work, I have no idea.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.119
You are not feeling the same level of affection.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:40.880
But nevertheless, but that dog, our that one dog is an exception.
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:42.480
There are other dogs like that, of course.
00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:45.119
But most dogs I suggest don't like to be hugged.
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:54.960
Some learn, and maybe that happened with our dog, that it but didn't learn from us because we don't hug our dogs, that it is associated with affection.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.519
We don't have kids, but often it's with little kids, and they learn that.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:08.240
Okay, with the hugging comes affection or maybe food, that the little if the kid's a toddler that the that he's dropping or she is dropping on the ground.
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.079
But dogs aren't born huggers.
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:28.559
And and while some individuals and cultures vary greatly about what hugging means, if you are a primate, human or non-human primate, you hug different reasons, different circumstances, as I've learned.
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:30.960
However, not canines.
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.559
And the national hug your dog day, I think we need to stop hugging our dogs.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:37.680
Yeah, hugging our dogs.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.000
I think we also need to listen to what great-great-grandma told us.
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.480
Some simple things like don't put your hand in the dog's food bowl.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:47.200
Right?
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.400
Let sleeping dogs lie and all those things.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.440
Yeah.
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.359
Just make perfect sense.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:59.440
But some people say it's my right because it's my home, you know, and my dog, right?
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.920
Or they just don't know.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.960
They never had that great-great-grandma.
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:12.559
Or they feel that, okay, this somehow is something that I need to do, you know.
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:14.799
But no, it's not.
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:19.599
And I think there are lots of reasons for dog bites on the rise.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:25.680
But I think one of the reasons, and data's hard to get on this stuff, but I found a little.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.359
I mean, one of the reasons is we're not understanding what dogs are telling us.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:29.680
Right.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:32.480
And there is data on the most significant dog bites.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:37.279
And while there are other bullet points as to why those dog bites occur, that's one of them.
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:44.160
So I feel that if we ask the dog, maybe those dog bites won't continue to rise so much.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.000
But there's one other thing.
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:57.680
Aren't we at the point where dogs as sentient beings have the right to just say no?
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:58.720
Yes.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.039
And we have that conversation every day.
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:02.960
Yep, absolutely.
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:10.000
Well, Steve, what are some of the signals you wish that every child knew how to recognize so that we can prevent those dog bites?
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:17.200
I could ask you guys the same question, but I'll answer, you know, because you're more expert than I am on all this.
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:23.920
But uh yeah, I mean, one is you're outside with a dog you don't see, and the dog raises a paw.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:27.200
Now, it could mean that the ground is really, really hot.
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:31.519
It could mean that the ground is really, really cold where I live in Chicago.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:33.920
That happens in January.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.960
However, it also can be and often is a stress signal.
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:45.200
A yawn can mean the dog is just um didn't get good sleep last night.
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.400
It was just too noisy.
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:47.839
Those neighbors, you know.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.519
Probably not, though.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.319
Probably it is a stress signal.
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:58.960
Lick lipping could mean the dog just had that pup cup I spoke about, or some peanut butter or something.
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.640
But that is a stress signal in general as well.
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.839
Uh, the tail being down, a lot of people know that that's the case.
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:09.119
But how about a wagging tail?
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:11.839
Oh, yeah, that's so misinterpreted.
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:12.559
Yes.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:21.440
So people, of course, assume that uh a wagging tail is excitability, and they're correct, but excitability isn't always good.
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:21.920
Right.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:33.359
So I could see someone on the street, there aren't too many people I'd say this about, but that I really don't like, and I get really excited because I want to punch them in the nose.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:46.319
That's not happened, but if it were to happen, you know, so excitability isn't always positive, is what I'm trying to say.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.400
Right, it can be fear as well.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:54.160
The biggest one might be a dog that just turns over on its back and explodes.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.839
Yeah, just wants a belly rub.
00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:03.440
Yeah, and the dog may indeed want a belly rub, uh, but maybe not.
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.519
So, how do you know?
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:11.200
And and the answer to all these things and others' signals, let the dog tell you.
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:19.119
If the dog wants to interact with you, and again, you guys are more expert, you tell me how you feel about it.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:24.880
But if the dog wants to interact with you, the dog will signal, I want to interact with you.
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.759
And then, and then I'll let you guys comment.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:33.680
What I say to kids or adults is stop, especially if you don't know the dog.
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:34.079
Right.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.440
And let the dog tell you, okay, I want more.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:40.079
And they will if they do.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:40.559
Right.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.319
Or that's fine, and I've had enough.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.839
What do you guys think about that?
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:48.319
Yeah, that we talk about that every day.
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.519
I think in every consultation is consent to pet, right?
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:56.880
Like do a couple scratches under the chin and then stop and see what happens, right?
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:58.319
Does the dog look away?
00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.519
Does the dog walk away?
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:01.519
Does the dog lean in for more?
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.319
They will say yes or no for sure.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.000
Absolutely.
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:07.359
Same same answer.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:08.799
Well, that's exactly what I say.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.039
But I don't think that's talked about.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.880
I think a lot of these things for the general public aren't talked about enough.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.119
And I think that there's two things.
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:22.160
One is where the veterinarian comes in or the technician.
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:34.480
The technician, not only specialist in behavior, and for those, thank you, but technicians in general, I think are the best and most important communicators in veterinary medicine.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:36.480
I support a couple of ideas.
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:44.000
One, veterinarians actually in practice teaching puppy classes, having a technician there.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:45.519
I'm glad your heads are nodding.
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:46.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.960
I am trying to spread the word.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:49.839
Really?
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:50.720
Preach.
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:51.359
Let's do it.
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.240
Yeah.
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:53.759
Well, I'm trying to do that.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.960
I'm speaking at a couple of conferences coming up about this.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.000
In fact, I'm creating a PowerPoint as we speak almost.
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:00.640
Right now, yeah.
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:08.079
Not literally right now, but that's I'm and one of the things is first of all, and this isn't in any particular order necessarily, though.
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:10.799
If I think about it, I could probably put it in a order.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.039
Uh, technicians don't make enough money.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:17.680
And this is a way in which technicians will make a little bit, a little bit.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:24.240
Hopefully, the owner of the practice, corporate or not, will share that money with the teacher of the class.
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.599
And I think also most technicians can teach a puppy class.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.000
If you like puppies, you can learn enough.
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:36.000
Go see either Amy here speak, get educated, and you could teach a puppy class.
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:37.599
Uh, it isn't hard to do.
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:47.119
The other thing is, how often does the local dog trainer come to a practice and say, Well, I'm only a mile away, let me put my card here.
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:50.880
And you don't know the technique that that dog trainer is using.
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:58.799
So if indeed for any dog training class, you allow that, at least audit the class.
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:04.319
But if you're teaching the class in your practice, then you have control.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:06.799
You know it's positive reinforcement.
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:14.480
Another thing that you can do that most dog trainers can't do in a park is put that dog on the cold exam table.
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.359
We don't want to see cold exam tables anymore, I know.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.160
But nevertheless, you can do that.
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:29.920
You could flip the lip, you can, you know, look at the paws and give the dog a treat at the same time and wear a white coat if that veterinarian is still wearing a white coat.
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:44.480
You can do all those things to replicate a veterinary exam, and that's incredibly important because then you have a dog that is actually, I swear this can happen, pulling you down the street.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.000
And I have a video of our own dogs doing it, pulling you down the street.
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.240
In fact, I think one of my arms is still longer than the other, pulling you down the street.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:30:02.720
So I've got these dogs at that time that, you know, if I didn't, you guys could and should yell at me that could walk at my side if I want them to, right?
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.759
They're not they're not pulling me down the street.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:16.960
They swear, whenever we got within about two blocks, no matter which direction, I tried it many, many ways, because we're about walking distance a mile away from the vet clinic.
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:23.759
So before our dogs became very, very old, we were able to walk, if I wanted to, to the vet clinic, if I wasn't so lazy.
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:25.599
They had free parking at the time.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.880
They've moved, different ownership, different circumstances.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:36.160
But the point is that no matter which direction I came from, they somehow figured out, uh-oh, I'm near the clinic.
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:42.240
And uh-oh, isn't quite the right way to put it because it's uh-oh for me, because now they're pulling me down the street.
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.359
They can't, they would go through the glass door if they could, you know, until I open the door.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.720
They go right to the front desk area.
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:57.279
In fact, once there was terrible remorse because they moved the treats from that side to that side, you know.
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.319
So they knew it and loved it.
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.599
It can happen with you or your clients' dogs.
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:05.359
Why should that matter to you?
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:08.000
Bonding the dog to the clinic is important.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:15.920
I suggest there's one thing that is more important bonding the client, you know, because rarely do dogs drive there on their own.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:16.480
That's right.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.200
So, yeah, or make the decision to come in.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:24.319
And now, with I just wrote about this in my blog, stevedale.tv.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:31.759
Um, there are more and more people that are actually saying, okay, I'm going to sacrifice to treat my pet.
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.839
I'll even go into debt treating my pet.
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.720
And it's a terrible thing to even have to talk about.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.160
But there are many more people that are saying, I'm just not going to the vet.
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:41.839
I'm going to AI instead.
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:52.960
Interestingly enough, the number of people that go to AI first then pay a price literally for doing that, because that information may not be correct.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.400
My dog is limping.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:54.960
Look it up.
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.519
I've tried, and it gave all these answers.
00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:59.680
Lyme disease wasn't one of them.
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.599
Sorry, Chat GPT.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.440
So I wrote ChatGPT back.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:06.400
I said, How about tick disease, specifically Lyme disease?
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.519
Chat GBT wrote back, apparently you know more than I do.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.559
You're correct.
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:12.480
That's actually what they wrote.
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.039
I was doing a story on something.
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.799
I don't remember what it was about.
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.759
It had to do with some legislation or something, something.
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:20.640
I'm not sure.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.039
I swear I should have screenshot this.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:28.160
ChatGBT wrote back when I wrote them, and I said, You forgot this.
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.240
ChatGBT, I swore, wrote back, you're Steve Dale.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.640
You know more about this than I do.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.200
I should have screenshot it because no one would believe it.
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.119
But it really did happen.
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.240
So I have an interesting relationship with ChatGBT.
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:44.880
Evidently.
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.200
Because sometimes I do scream at them.
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:54.480
So I want to talk a little bit more about our relationships between children and dogs.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:59.599
And you had said just a couple of um sentences ago about the rise in dog bites.
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:07.680
And we know from the literature too, like you had already said, is that children in the home with that dog are more likely to have a dog bite.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.759
And we also know that those bites are very likely to be in the face and neck, right?
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:16.559
Because children are at head height to where that dog's face and mouth are.
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:21.119
So horrific kind of circumstances that we never want to have happen.
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:29.920
And so, how can we, or how can teaching children to understand dogs help prevent those bites and other dangerous interactions?
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.759
Like how can we keep everybody safe?
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:33.279
I love that question.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:36.880
And there's I don't think much that's new there.
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.599
It's number one, supervision.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.000
Active supervision.
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:42.640
Yeah.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:44.720
Yeah, that's right.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.240
Can't be on your phone.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:47.039
Yeah.
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:49.599
Totally correct.
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:56.319
And how many times have you heard I know my dog would not never bite?
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:56.799
Yeah.
00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:59.200
Bite you fill in the blank.
00:33:59.519 --> 00:33:59.599
Yeah.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.920
I say anything with a mouth can bite.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:02.640
Oh, nice.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.920
Oh, well, I tell him a story about my own dog that was like my Scotty, perfect angel baby.
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:14.239
That I was like, this dog's never gonna bite a flea, let alone my child, and I let my guard down.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.119
And guess what?
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.079
My son got bit.
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:18.800
So is your son okay now?
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:20.000
He's absolutely fine.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:25.360
He just got a canine tooth to the cheek when he fell on top of her when he was learning to walk.
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.760
So, as a result of what you're saying, it's called cynophobia.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.000
Oh, which is something that I didn't know.
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:33.119
It's fear of dogs.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:34.239
Oh, interesting.
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:39.840
And according to the American Psychological Association, it is now at an all-time high.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:40.639
Wow.
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:46.960
Now good news is if you live in Chicago, there's an organization called Rainbow Animal Assisted Therapy.
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:55.679
And 90% of what they do is animal assisted therapy work that is incredible, going to hospitals and nursing homes and rehab facilities and all the rest.
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:02.719
Uh, we've every dog we've had, just about literally, I think, actually, has been in a their program or a program like that.
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:10.880
Uh, but they have a slice of what they do where they have people come in and teach kids, reteach kids how to live with dogs.
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:11.519
Oh wow.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:12.960
And not to be afraid.
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.480
It's an amazing program.
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:20.239
And unfortunately, more needed today than ever before because of these dog bite numbers.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.880
It's so number one to finish answering trying to answer your question, Dr.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:27.360
Learn, is adult supervision.
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:27.920
Yes.
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.760
Also, I am an advocate of this.
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.079
You both have kids.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:47.920
So if as a toddler or younger, one of your kids were to stick their head in the oven that you have warming up, you know, but nothing in it yet, or in it, it doesn't matter.
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:49.599
What do you do?
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:50.639
Scream.
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:52.480
Scream in the article, 911.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.719
No, you scream, you scream.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.960
But what if the child pulls on that cocker spaniels earlier?
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:01.440
Right.
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:02.079
Right.
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.880
You just say, Oh, that's not good, don't do that.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.599
Right.
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.440
Well, fine.
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.760
But the level of intensity isn't the same.
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.480
It's different.
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:12.639
Yeah.
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:14.079
And I think it needs to be.
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:15.599
Yeah.
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:23.599
Young kids, and I'm not certainly I'm not, I don't know that I'm an expert in anything, but I'm certainly not an expert in child rearing.
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:32.400
But experts have told me that as young as less than two years, kids can understand the basic.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:34.159
Don't do that.
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.000
At least understand the panic in mom.
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:45.519
And we don't express that when the toddler hops on top of the Great Dane.
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:49.119
In fact, the reverse sometimes is true.
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:54.159
We get out the camera and say, do it again, you know, because we want to post it.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.000
Because it's so darn cute.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.119
So we have to, and the same for cats.
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.800
This shouldn't be that part shouldn't be limited to dogs, by the way.
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:05.920
Or any pet, as far as adult supervision.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.800
And it's not only about the safety of the child.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:19.119
I was presenting at some conference somewhere about children and pets, and a veterinary professional raised his or her hand and said, Well, you're not right.
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:20.320
What about goldfish?
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:21.920
They're not going to hurt the pet.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.119
The other way around, the pet's not going to hurt the child.
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.679
But I said, But the child's going to hurt the pet.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:28.079
Yeah.
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.320
You know, you knock over the goldfish bowl.
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:30.559
Right.
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.639
And that fish doesn't have much of a shot.
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:41.840
You know, so it's not only about the safety of the child, it's also about the safety of the pet and what's fair to the pet.
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:50.719
But at some point in time, pets, you know, you pull on that ear enough times of that cockro spaniel or whatever dog it is.
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:56.159
And that dog may say, I've, as we talked about earlier, just may say, I've had enough.
00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:01.679
There are things that we need to do that are greatly common sense that we need to get back to.
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:11.840
But while many, many bites happen that way, there are a whole long range of explanations for it.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.239
One of them I know is something that you guys both feel strongly about.
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.599
We've seen a resurgence of shock collar use.
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.440
Oh my goodness.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:21.920
Yeah.
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:22.880
Right.
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:25.039
Good for your business, I suppose.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:27.119
Yes, good for my business.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:28.400
Sadly, yes.
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.840
Yeah.
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:42.719
Uh, because people who are desperate or don't know better, or both, turn to trainers that are using them increasingly, because they go on TikTok or Instagram and see these trainers do it.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.440
And there's been that resurgence for that reason.
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:52.159
I think more than any other reason, maybe marketing of the companies, too, but mostly I think that reason.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:01.840
And uh then they end up with a dog who's worse off, as you guys can can relate to, and they come to you as now a total last resort.
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.239
And how often do you recommend saying use a shock collar, right?
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.079
Yeah, never several times.
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.360
Never, never.
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:10.000
Yeah.
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:14.000
So that is another reason, you know, why we're seeing an increase.
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:18.239
We're also seeing an increase in something that is controversial to talk about.
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:19.920
I mean, none of this is in the book.
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:33.679
I mean, this isn't, I mean, the book is about a little kid walking through a park, encountering dog after dog after dog, and mom saying, You could pet that dog, maybe not that dog, and here's why, which is instructional and doesn't go into all this other stuff.
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:39.599
Like what some animal shelters, particularly some no-kill shelters and rescues, are doing now.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:47.119
They want to impress their donors and the general public that they don't kill and they're bored.
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:49.679
So they will do anything to save a dog.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:51.760
And I'm all for saving a dog.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.639
But what they're doing to save that dog has to be done quickly by their accounts.
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:08.559
So they hire a trainer to do it, who will often use aversive methods, particularly again the shock collar, because what you could do is you could temporarily inhibit that behavior, right?
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.199
But temporarily inhibit doesn't mean forever inhibit.
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.519
You're not really solving any problem.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.719
Well, you're not solving what caused the problem, right?
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:22.159
You're inhibiting what you see as the behavior.
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:29.199
So the dog goes back to the shelter and is now all shiny and new, gets adopted into a family, often with kids.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.440
And guess what happens?
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.079
Of course, that dog will break down.
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:41.119
I mean, whatever prompted that behavior in the first place reoccurs, and the dog bites.
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:54.480
You know, so the other thing about dog bites that concerns me is if you're watching this and you have a dog and your dog isn't gonna bite, fine, fine.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:56.639
It matters to you still.
00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:57.920
Even the Dr.
00:40:58.079 --> 00:40:58.800
Pike and Dr.
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:03.199
Learn because your insurance rates are going up.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:03.679
Yeah.
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.199
Because of dog bites.
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:22.960
So if you have a practice that you own or participate in, or you're a veterinarian who does what either of you do, one of the reasons there are others that insurance rates have skyrocketed, yeah, homeowners insurance, even, because we all pay in the shared.
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:29.039
So I don't believe that a hurricane has happened ever in the history of Chicago.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:38.480
But when they happen in Florida and they destroy buildings and insurance down there pays for it, we pay for it up here, sure.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:39.039
As well.
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.119
It's the shared thing, you know.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:46.000
So there's homeowners insurance for everybody, your clients included.
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:53.199
Does that mean maybe they're less likely to have a dog or two dogs because two dogs cost more than one dog next time around?
00:41:53.440 --> 00:42:01.519
Also, when there is a dog bite that happens in a community and it's a golden retriever that bites, it's a dog bite in the newspaper or online.
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:06.159
But if it's a dog with a blocky head and wide shoulders, you know what I'm going for.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:10.239
Yeah, that dog is called a pit bull, even though it's probably just a mixed breed dog.
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:14.320
And that dog, then we could see breed bands happen all over again.
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:14.880
That's right.
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.239
That's now vicious dogs.
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:29.440
Yeah, I will say, if I may brag a moment, uh, uh that I co-authored a paper for AvSAB, the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior, uh, years ago on why breed bands don't work.
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:39.119
They were initiated with the best intent of political types in communities to improve public safety.
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:45.679
And the thinking was really okay, these are bad dogs, we'll improve public safety if we have a breed ban and don't allow pit bulls.
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.360
Well, it turns out they don't do anything for public safety.
00:42:49.599 --> 00:43:00.880
We showed that pit bulls bans have been rescinded just about everywhere in America and throughout the world, because it's been evidence has shown they don't do anything.
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.679
But I'm worried that if we have dog bites continue to increase.
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.320
Also, our dogs go to more places than ever before.
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:06.639
True.
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:14.639
You know, I you know, I took our dogs to parades to not the real, real, real loud ones.
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:22.400
I'm talking parade isn't the right word, like muck muscular dystrophy walks or certainly walks for animal shelters, like anti-cruelty.
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:28.320
I'm on their board of directors, has a walk every year, you know, and we would take our dogs, of course.
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.719
And it's the idea is to take your dog.
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:38.079
All of these events and others, even taking your dog to a restaurant patio may end or into a greeting card store.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.000
Did they ever do they still have those?
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.119
Uh whatever stores that allow dogs, you know?
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:50.159
And and that may end because those stores may be told, the restaurants may be told, no more dogs, because we won't insure you.
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:59.760
It was at one time a matter of public policy and sometimes political policy, but now it may be insurers that say.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:00.800
Yeah, true.
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:02.079
That no more.
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:11.840
So there are other reasons, even for people who have nothing to do with dogs or who do and want their dogs to continue to have these privileges, why all of this matters?
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:13.199
Yeah, it's true.
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:18.400
And and we all talk about as like behavior professionals preserving the human animal bond.
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.639
You yourself have spent decades talking about the human animal bond.
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:31.280
What do you think happens when we teach children to see animals as individuals, as sentient beings with their own preferences, emotions, boundaries?
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.159
What do you does that preserve that bond, do you think?
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:35.840
Yes and no, actually.
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:37.119
Surprising answer there.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.400
I wonder and I wonder how you think about this.
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:42.320
We love our dogs.
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.199
We should love our dogs.
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.199
I'm glad we love our dogs more than ever before.
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:46.960
Dogs are considered family.
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:54.480
I have one data point, I don't remember the study, where I would do more for my dog than I would my spouse.
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.079
You know, those kinds of things.
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:58.239
I won't tell Robin.
00:44:59.119 --> 00:44:59.519
Don't.
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.440
How many people share their bed with their dog or dogs now, right?
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:03.840
Right.
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.599
Or other pets, you know.
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.239
So the human-animal bond has never been more intense.
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:11.360
At one level, I think that is more than wonderful.
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:19.199
Adoptions are up, even though shelters are inundated because the line outside shelters is longer than ever before.
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:23.280
One reason for that, by the way, dog bites, but there are many reasons for that.
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:26.320
On the other hand, dogs are not humans.
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:37.840
And raising dogs or cats as humans, so we're all advocates of positive reinforcement training, but we're also advocates of training.
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:45.199
And dogs are not going to training classes to the extent that they once did for a whole wide assortment of reasons.
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:48.400
So I talk about this in a talk that I give.
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:58.000
And in that talk, I have a video of a guy parachuting with his Jack Russell Terrier.
00:45:58.239 --> 00:45:58.559
Oh man.
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.800
Now the Jack Russell appears happy, but I don't know.
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:08.880
Did anyone ask that dog before the parachute jump, do you really want to do this?
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:09.360
You know?
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:29.199
So the dog no doubt loves being with his person, but have we actually become overbonded, giving at times too many privileges, not having rules, not having consistent rules for our dogs.
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:35.199
Um I think sometimes the answer to that is cats too, to some extent.
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.119
But I think the answer to that is yes.
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:38.159
They're not people.
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:38.880
Right.
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:39.679
They're not people.
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:46.400
And when we think of them as people, um, we treat them in ways that they don't necessarily want to be treated.
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.119
Like you said, I'm I don't want to go skydiving.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:54.000
And or and or they don't understand, you know, and they can't.
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:54.639
Right.
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.440
So they are our best friends.
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.360
I suggest they understand us better than we understand them.
00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:02.480
I would agree.
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.480
But having said that, they're still not us.
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:15.920
And in fact, it's uh amazing and just a I'm trying to think of the right word.
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:22.880
It's it's a miracle, but that's not quite the right word, that uh we have a relationship with dogs that we do.
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:24.719
It's because we evolved with dogs.
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:25.519
Right, right, right.
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:28.239
We co-evolved with them quite literally.
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:36.320
It's an incredible thing to feel, it's an incredible thing to see your kids for both of you grow up with dogs.
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.719
You know, it's not the same as growing up without.
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:45.519
And there's so much that comes from that, right?
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:47.519
But they are still not people.
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:48.239
Right.
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:49.440
That's true.
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:54.639
So I love, we obviously love the idea of asking the dog.
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.760
That is literally most of our conversation with every single appointment.
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:00.400
That's right.
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:01.119
Ask the dog.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:08.239
We love and that obviously puts responsibility on us as adults.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:24.320
Um when we're learning those things and when we're teaching children to encounter dogs and interact with dogs, how do you want humans, adults and child alike, to act differently when they are interacting with dogs?
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:26.800
Yeah, so that's a great question.
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:42.400
And that is answered in the book because you've got this little girl, Morgan, walking through with her mom, a park, a big park, where there's dogs everywhere, and encountering all different kinds of dogs and all different kinds of people.
00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:52.239
You know, one of my favorite encounters is with this old guy who just says these corny jokes and says, Go ahead and pet my dog.
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:54.960
And the dog clearly doesn't want to be pet.
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:57.280
And mom in the book explains why.
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.519
So, yes, ask the person, can I pet your dog?
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:07.119
That is first of all polite, but also a good place to start.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:15.760
But we need to pay attention and teach our kids from a young age to what those dogs are telling us when they're dogs we don't know.
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:19.920
But actually, the answer is somewhat the same for dogs we do know.
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:29.840
Even the dogs in our home give them space, including somewhere to go if they don't want to be interacting with anyone in the family.
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:43.199
You guys love your kids, but I bet on occasion, on occasion, just maybe once every two years, you want to go off into another room, or once every day, you want to go off into another room, right?
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.760
And and just, okay, that's enough.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.360
Lock myself in the bathroom.
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:48.960
Yeah, right, right, right, right.
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:53.760
And the dog has should have that same privilege.
00:49:53.920 --> 00:50:04.320
In fact, I suggest by giving your dog that space, a space of his or her own, you can eliminate all sorts of problems right there if you allow the dog to go into that space.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:09.679
And that dog knows uh in this space I'm gonna be left alone.
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:10.000
Right.
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:15.199
So even in dogs, for dogs that we have that are our own.
00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:18.400
Now, what does this have to do with veterinary medicine?
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:19.920
A couple things directly.
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:26.239
First of all, if dog bites go up, I've already talked about how you literally pay a price for that.
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:30.320
No one goes into veterinary medicine because they want to see dogs harmed.
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.920
A dog that bites may land in a shelter, and from there it could be a downward spiral.
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:43.840
So you obviously lose a client, but moreover, no one wants to see bad things happen to dogs or people, you know.
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.239
So there's there's all of that.
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.880
But there's more than that.
00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:55.440
Veterinary professionals, particularly technicians, can communicate dog bite prevention.
00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:05.039
And one thing to do is even offer talks periodically to the public on different things, uh, either webinars or in-person talks.
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:16.320
I am a huge fan of that because it not only educates your clients, but bonds the clients to your practice and whether that's being done via Zoom or even in your practice.
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:20.400
I already talked about how practices should offer puppy classes.
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:26.159
Uh, and for that matter, I would suggest kitten classes, which is a whole different discussion.
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:30.320
Yeah, I'm I years ago, you know this lady, Dr.
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:33.039
Kirsty Sexel, and she was teaching with Dr.
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.239
Karen Overall.
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:36.880
Best learning experience I've ever had.
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:42.079
At that time, uh NAVC had what was called the postgraduate institute.
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:48.639
And you'd go and you'd intensively learn about whatever topic it was, it could be cardiac disease, whatever.
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:54.800
And for a week, every day from pretty much nine to five, that's all they talked about was cardiac disease.
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:59.199
Instead, I went to the one on behavior, and for some reason, Dr.
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:04.000
Overall thought not only can Steve attend, but he can also be a speaker.
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:05.280
So I didn't talk.
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:06.480
Wow.
00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:21.760
Oh wow, was right because Kirsty Sexel and overall, it's like, but Kirsty was talking about kitten brain development, and she said, and this was 15 years ago, maybe, and she said, and wouldn't we do these kitty kindies in Australia?
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:24.079
I did not do the Australian accent very well.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:26.000
Do not let her hear this ever.
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:32.480
But she is brilliant in many ways, but was ahead of her time as far as this goes.
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:34.880
And I said, These kitty what?
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:36.639
Kitty kindies, don't you know?
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:38.000
I said, No, I don't know.
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:46.079
And she explained their kitten classes that would be held anywhere, but including potentially at a veterinary clinic.
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:49.280
And I thought this was the most brilliant thing I've ever heard, you know.
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:50.639
So I asked her more about it.
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.440
I began to offer those in Chicago.
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.360
And for a time I did do those.
00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:01.519
And then for a time I spoke at veterinary meetings about it, and then I spoke about it with one other lady, Dr.
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:02.559
Sophia Yin.
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.480
So she was out there speaking about it, and I was out there separately.
00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:08.639
We didn't, I don't think I ever spoke with Dr.
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:13.920
Yin, but we spoke, we would share slides and stuff like that and share experiences, you know.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.840
The toughest thing was getting kittens to the class in the first place, right?
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:22.559
Because they have to be in this window of eight to 15 weeks.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:23.039
Right.
00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:25.119
Maybe seven weeks.
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:26.639
So they have to be weaned.
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.000
But on the other hand, if they're over 15 weeks, I could tell.
00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:30.719
Yes.
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:32.639
I could tell by the way the kittens reacted.
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:33.199
Yeah.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:40.400
You know, so I could tell because you don't know sometimes because you don't know how old the kitten was when you adopted the kitten.
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:40.800
Right.
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:43.360
Or people sometimes cheated just to get in.
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:51.679
So either which way, but I was able to generally tell if the kitten was over 15 to 16 weeks of age because of the way the kitten acted.
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.320
So it's hard because they have to be in this little window.
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:59.360
They're like puppy classes in some ways, but many, many in most ways, they're not actually.
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:05.119
So, in any which case, I'm all for veterinary practices doing that as well.
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:07.760
How I got off on kitten classes, I don't really know.
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:09.679
It's all right.
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:10.079
Sorry.
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:11.599
We see it all here.
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:12.960
We see it all.
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:16.159
I just want to I want to give a quick shout out to your illustrator.
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:18.559
Um, she was amazing.
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:18.960
Yeah.
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:20.000
She was amazing.
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:25.599
She did a fantastic job portraying, you know, exactly the body language that we need to um.
00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:36.480
So did you guys so if you guys are the ultimate judge, so what would happen is that she'd do an illustration, and most of the times it was right, so she must have dogs or I don't even know her.
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.400
So the publisher said, you know, I'll find the illustrator, and she did.
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:40.719
Yeah.
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:44.320
But I've never even to this day communicated with her.
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:46.639
I think she's gotten work as a result of this book, though.
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:53.039
Oh god, and she deserves it because I would go back to her and say, Oh no, the tale's got to be this way or whatever.
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:54.400
And she would do it.
00:54:54.639 --> 00:55:02.320
And uh with you guys, I hope I'm gonna figure out a way to communicate with her because if Dr.
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:03.280
Amy and Dr.
00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:10.480
Amy say she got it right, Patricia McConnell said she got it right, a whole long list of other people, too.
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:11.760
She's just got it right.
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:16.239
Dodman actually said she got her, all these other people said she got it right.
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:20.159
But that is the best compliment ever.
00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:20.960
Yeah.
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:21.519
Yeah.
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:23.679
She did a great fantastic job.
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:33.679
Well, Steve, we've talked about a lot, but if you could give our hive mind just one piece of advice about helping children build safe and respectful relationships with dogs, what would it be?
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:35.119
Oh, it's simple.
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:36.320
Three words.
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:38.320
You know what they are.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:39.519
Ask the dog.
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:40.480
Ask the dog.
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:41.199
Yay!
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:42.800
Oh my god, I love that.
00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:44.000
That was such a clencher.
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:44.960
I love that.
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.119
Well, I want to move on to another fun part.
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:55.840
You've told us so many wonderful stories that we almost don't even have to do this segment, but we love to get to know our guests in depth.
00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:05.280
And so I want you to share a fun story or something completely off topic, any kind of real-world anecdote that has happened in your life that you think our audience would enjoy.
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:07.360
A real world anecdote.
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:09.360
Um, hold on a second.
00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:15.760
I will think of something that is uh interesting or try to hold on one second.
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.639
I will even have a prop for this anecdote.
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:19.679
A prop.
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:22.880
This is our best prepared guest.
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:24.880
Two anecdotes.
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:26.000
Can I do that?
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:26.400
Yes.
00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:28.880
Do I get charged as twice as well?
00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:30.880
Oh, yeah, you have to pay for the second one.
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:31.599
Yeah.
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:35.440
Um one is a law.
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.199
We've been married 38 years.
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:38.320
We just had our anniversary.
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:40.239
Oh, congratulations.
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:44.719
The rule coming, and I suspect you guys might say yes to this.
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:48.079
The rule coming from a guy is do what the wife says.
00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:49.199
Yes, yes.
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:50.320
Figure.
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.760
Uh so tonight we're seeing Ricky Martin in concert.
00:56:54.159 --> 00:56:54.960
Oh, fun!
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:56.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:58.159
Does that count as something?
00:56:58.480 --> 00:56:59.679
Yeah, it counts as something cool.
00:56:59.760 --> 00:56:59.920
Yeah.
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:00.719
Super fun.
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:08.800
One of the things that I do is I host uh two of the things I do is I host, aside from hosting, well, three of the things I do.
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:11.440
So one, you want four?
00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:16.400
One of the things that I do is I host a radio show on WGN in Chicago about pets.
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:22.480
And I've been doing that for I think I have to figure all this out, but I think this year will be my 25th year.
00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:22.880
Wow.
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:24.559
Ooh, that's a big anniversary.
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:28.400
So, oh, in radio, 25 minutes is a long time.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:30.079
So uh, Dr.
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:32.159
Learn, I've got to get you on at some point.
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:32.480
Dr.
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:34.320
Pike has suffered through me as a.
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:35.360
Oh, okay.
00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:37.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:47.519
Um, so another thing I do though, that I've been doing for several years now, forever I've been filling in at WGM because I go, I mean, I played music on the radio at one point in time, right?
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:48.800
You name the kind of music.
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:52.159
I played it at one point many, many, many years ago.
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:58.719
And I've always done fill-in work and WGN radio at some point said, uh, would you like a Sunday afternoon show?
00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:00.639
But you can't do pets on that show.
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:03.280
Just what you've done, you know, general radio.
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:05.440
And that's what I do, a general talk show.
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:10.000
So I interview, we have a mayoral election coming up in Chicago.
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:12.000
So I'll interview all the mayoral candidates.
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:17.119
I've talked to the mayor many times, I talked to other public officials at, you know, the national level.
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.119
I talk to book authors, I talk to celebrities as they come in town.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:21.760
Oh, cool.
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.039
Um, my favorite is Ruta Lee.
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:27.280
I don't even know who that is.
00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:34.880
She was like a star way back when, and appeared in movies with people like Fred Astaire.
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:36.559
Oh, cool.
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:39.039
I asked her who her favorite person in the world was.
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:40.559
She said Frank Sinatra.
00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:42.960
Oh Lucy O'Ball was her best friend.
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:56.159
I mean, just so the stories that she tells, but the name of her book, her I'm plugging her book here, is called I think I've got this right, You've Kissed My Ass.
00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:57.039
Oh nice.
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:05.119
Uh hey, John here, the editor and apparently the fact checker.
00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:11.599
The actual title of the book is Consider Your Ass Kissed from Britain Publishing.
00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:14.079
Available at fine booksellers everywhere.
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:16.719
So uh check it out.
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:22.159
And it's got lips on the front of it.
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:26.880
And she is rather liberal in the kind of language she uses on the radio.
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:28.159
But we love her already.
00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:31.199
She is the one guest where we have to have our hand on the button.
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.039
Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:36.079
And she's, I think, God, how old is she?
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:39.920
I think 90 something, you know, but she's sharp as can be.
00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:45.360
So another thing I do, though, is a podcast from a restaurant.
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:46.800
Oh, restaurant.
00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:49.679
Peterino's restaurant, which is downtown Chicago.
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:51.280
It's a legendary restaurant.
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:53.199
It's in the heart of the theater district.
00:59:53.280 --> 01:00:01.599
The idea of the podcast is to talk to people as they come to town to perform, to talk about the city of Chicago, to promote Chicago.
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:05.840
So we've had a wide variety of guests on the show.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:12.000
And one of those guests, this is the prop, wrote this book and was in a show in Chicago.
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:13.440
Yeah.
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.000
And he was wonderful to talk to.
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:22.960
Um, Megan Malale, his wife, was in the show at the Goodman Theater, celebrating their 100th anniversary.
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.400
And super cool.
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:25.920
Couldn't get Megan on the show.
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.360
She didn't do any media.
01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:29.920
Uh, she was brilliant to watch on stage, though.
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:30.960
Oh, sorry.
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:32.639
What a comedian.
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:36.559
And Nick Offerman is so good as well in this show.
01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:42.559
It just closed its run in Chicago, but I have a hunch it's going to go to Broadway as well.
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:55.920
So, in any which case, the conversation with Nick Offerman ranged from why he will do anything for his wife, Megan Malale, to why, if the chair I'm sitting in right now breaks, it is wrong.
01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:59.360
If I hire someone to fix it, I've got to do it myself.
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:07.840
I didn't have the courage to tell him that there's no way in the world I even understand what a hammer is.
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:08.639
Yeah.
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:11.920
You're hiring someone.
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:12.719
That's right.
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:13.280
Yes.
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:14.719
Yes, I am.
01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:15.599
Oh, goodness.
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.039
Does this count to answer your absolute action?
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:21.360
Super fun.
01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:25.199
Well, here at the Behavior Buzz, we know you are all very busy bees.
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:28.960
Get busy bees who live and die by the science like we do.
01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.000
So we'll put the references from today's show on the website.
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:35.760
So buzz on over to the honeypot page to find those.
01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:39.679
And we want to give a great big thanks to Steve Dale.
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:47.920
We really, really enjoyed chatting with you about the importance of consent and how to help kids and dogs coexist more peacefully.
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:59.519
I hope, as we all do, that we continue to make progress and we see those dog bite statistics coming back down and our homeowners insurance coming back down and our youth and age rates coming back down.
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:02.159
So that we're making progress in this relationship.
01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:05.760
And we also want to appreciate the sentience of dogs.
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:06.320
Yeah.
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:08.000
Thanks, Steve, for coming on.
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.039
Oh my gosh.
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:13.599
I mean, with you guys, it's just it's a privilege to be here.
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:14.960
Sweet.
01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:18.800
We should title our book, You Kiss My Ass.
01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:20.639
Dog Kiss My Ass.
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:23.519
I didn't mean it that way.
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:25.840
That's so funny.
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:26.719
I love that so much.
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:28.559
I hope I'm feisty when I'm 90.
01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:28.960
Right?
01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:29.519
I know.
01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:30.079
You will be.
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:30.559
You will be.
01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:31.599
I think you both will be.
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:32.559
Yeah.
01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:35.039
And will you invite me on your podcast then?
01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:36.079
Yes, yes, of course.
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:37.920
We'll be in our cryo chamber.
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.320
PRN cryo cryo chamber at that.
01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:44.880
I think PRN needs to step up his game and put us in a restaurant.
01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:49.440
We need to do us just like this boring studio to be in a restaurant.
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:52.880
Peterinos has the best peppermint ice cream on the planet.
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:55.360
It's actually in my contract.
01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:58.719
That I get paid X amount of money and I get peppermint ice cream.
01:02:59.039 --> 01:02:59.360
How funny?
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.400
That's fantastic.
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:03.440
I love that.
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:10.559
Thank you to our premium sponsor, PRN PharmaCal, the makers of Reconcile.
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:17.599
Reconcile is an FDA-approved drug for the treatment of canine separation anxiety in conjunction with the behavior modification plan.
01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:28.159
PRN PharmaCal is committed to meeting the evolving needs of modern veterinary medicine and dedicated to developing products to strengthen the bond between pets and their people.
01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:36.079
And Hive Mind, we thank you especially because without listeners like you, we would have nothing to buzz on about.
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:40.880
So grab a drink or a mocktail and join us next time for cocktails and conversations.
01:03:41.599 --> 01:03:43.679
Follow us on all our socials.
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Facebook at Behavior Buzz, Instagram at BehaviorBuzz, and our website, BehaviorBuzz.com.
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Be positive.
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Be informed.
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Now buzz.
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Okay, if you don't like it, that's fine.
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He's like, leave it to the professional.
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He's like, that was terrible, and your ears are awful.
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And that's why you were even recording.