Staying Small, Trauma & Questioning Normal with Debbie Harrell

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Thank you everybody for joining me for another episode of Wisdom Without the Guru with my guest this time from California, Debbie Harrell.
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I truly appreciate Debbie coming on the show because she is the epitome of somebody who has faced so many things and yet still keeps going.
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And I think that her story should truly give hope to people.
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The way that Debbie tells her story is one with candor and with humor.
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She shares her feelings and it is how she is dealing with what happened to her, the many things.
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And some of those many things include a mass shooting at Route 99.
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She shares what happened.
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She doesn't go into detail because it was very, very close to the anniversary of the shooting.
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And so we didn't want her to be triggered.
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So she superficially goes over it because I think it would be good for people to have an idea of what this kind of trauma is, especially for many people who are across the world who are not living in such a gun community as there is in the United States and who face this particular kind of tragedy.
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Yes, it's true in other parts of the world.
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There is other type of tragedy.
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This is the year of suck, as she calls it, and it is definitely the year of suck for her.
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So I hope that you'll listen and I hope that you'll go on her journey with her and hold her hand and hold your own hand or the hand of somebody you know who may be going through something similar, or not even similar, but who may be having things happen to them one right after the other.
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How do you deal with that?
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What do you do?
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How does it affect you?
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How does it show up later in life when you don't even expect it to?
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Has it happened to you?
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Do you know somebody going through that?
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I think this is an episode for you if it is.
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So sit back and listen.
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And if you like what you hear, please do share podcasts to somebody who you think can use it.
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Thank you, everybody.
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Enjoy the show.
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Welcome back to another episode of Wisdom Without the Guru.
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I'm your host, Regina.
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As usual, before we start, I have a couple of questions that I'd like you listeners to reflect upon that are definitely pertinent to our guest story, and they may be as well to yours.
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Think about these.
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Have you ever adjusted your behavior to keep the peace or stay unnoticed?
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In other words, did you stay small?
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Where, if anywhere, have you felt most at ease and accepted?
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What role has community or lack of it played in your life?
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Have you ever had a stretch of times when challenges seem to pile on top of each other?
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Do you have any events in your life that have reshaped your sense of safety in the world?
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So my guest today is Debbie Harrell.
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From an early age, she learned to stay small and responsible in a home that wasn't always steady.
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By her teens, she was balancing school with long hours of work.
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She eventually moved to Catalina Island off the coast of California, and there found a close knit community, raised her children, and built a life that felt safer and more connected than what she'd known before.
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Her story also carries difficult chapters, loss, health struggles, and the trauma of a mass shooting that very few of us can even begin to relate to.
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Each of these moments tested her sense of stability and reshaped the way she thought about what it meant to keep going on.
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Today Debbie's life reflects both the weight of those experiences and the ways she's learned to carry them with intention.
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So join me to hear the story and to perhaps uncover what aspects of it are also reflected in your own life.
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So welcome to the show, Debbie.
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So nice to have you, finally.
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Right, with all the reschedules.
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Thanks for having me.
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Happy to be here.
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First you had an issue, and then I got sick abruptly.
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That just went around and around in our household.
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My son got it, I got it, and then my husband got it.
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So one of the bonuses of living alone is I don't have to worry about sharing others' germs.
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I just get mine.
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This is true.
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This is true.
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And I can't even say my son is a kid going to school and bringing home germs because he's 19 years old.
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He went out to the movie theater and brought them home.
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Anyhow, thank you for joining me.
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And you're joining from Southern California, correct?
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Correct.
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Okay.
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So tell me about what it was like growing up as a latchkey kid in Southern California and what that was like and why that actually was happening.
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Because I think also when people say they're a latchkey kid, there's this misunderstanding in some ways, be it right or wrong, that, you know, parents just lock their um kids up in their home when they come home from school and that's it.
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But what are the reasons that that is done?
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Well, in my situation, my mom was a single mom, so she was at work.
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When I was younger, my cousin would be at home when I got there.
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But then once I was old enough to legally take care of myself, what is that, like 10, I think?
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I would come home, let myself in, have a snack, and then usually go directly outside to play with my friends.
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Completely unsupervised.
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I mean, other friends had moms that were in the homes, so we weren't necessarily completely if something catastrophic happened, there was a home we could probably go to.
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But for the most part, we were taking care of ourselves.
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And at the time, that seemed great.
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That was fun.
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Okay.
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So on top of that, you were an only child and you were also living with your mom's boyfriend as well.
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So talk about that situation because that kind of like drives a lot of your story as well, because of how you had to sort of conform your personality to fit into that situation.
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So can you talk about that?
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Yeah, he was a consummate narcissistic misogynist.
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I refer to him as the villain of my story or the villain of my childhood because he really was.
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But he was also my father figure.
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I never met my biological father until I was 25, you know.
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So a lot of my childhood quote unquote stuff stems from him and my mom's relationship and the choices my mom made regarding him and me.
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Often it was perceived he was she was choosing him over me, and and a lot of times she was actually choosing him over me.
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As an adult, I can look back and I can understand why she was, because she was being abused by this man.
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She was being emotionally abused by him.
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So did you sense that?
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Did were you aware of that?
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I was on the receiving end of it too as a child.
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So I didn't understand it as a child, but you know, being told on a daily basis to well, we were definitely it was definitely a household where children should be seen and not heard.
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That was a common phrase at the time.
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But I was told on a regular basis how I was ugly, nobody liked me, I would never amount to anything, you know.
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Really heartwarming messages to share with a child.
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Because a lot of the time we were alone, because he didn't work, he rarely had a he didn't hold a steady job.
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So my mom had a steady job.
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She was there eight to five, 52 weeks out of the year, rarely took vacation because we couldn't afford to vacation, because she was working so hard to take care of not only me, but him, because he couldn't hold a steady job.
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So there were a lot of times we were at home alone together.
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Looking back as an adult, I can and have done some of the work myself to recognize, like, oh, I could see what was happening to her.
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And I can hold space for both.
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I can recognize that I understand why she was making these choices and why it was happening that way.
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But it was also unhealthy and and caused harm to me.
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So did you have any safe space that you could go to, or was there anybody else who was aware of what was happening who you could reach out to?
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There were people who were aware, like I was really good at adopting families, other families.
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So like my best friend, their family usually became my friend, who are my best friend at the period of time.
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And some parents were open to that, others not as much, because there was still a little s a lot of stigma around single moms and what their character might be, and so what my character might be as the offspring of said, you know, single mom, salacious, you know.
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But for the most part, I was a good kid because I was, you know, trying to stay safe at school.
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You know, I was a good student, so I got rewarded.
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And so I learned, okay, I behave this way, do all my work, school was easier for me.
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So I did get that, and that was a safe space.
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So school was a safe space, my friends' homes were a safe space.
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In my house, the safest space was my bedroom.
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So I was definitely the kid who when I was in the house, I was in my bedroom with the door shut with my own stuff.
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My mom recognized that, so she set me up pretty good that I could exist in there safely because a lot of it was, you know, stay quiet, fly under the radar.
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Like if he just forgets I'm here.
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I would often go in and out my bedroom window so that they wouldn't know.
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It wasn't necessarily I was sneaking out for the reasons people sneak out.
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I just didn't want him to remember that I existed.
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But I had my own television, I had my own phone back when we had those phones attached to the wall.
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So what are those?
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I don't even have one of those anymore.
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Not many people do.
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I know, it's crazy.
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Okay, so I just heard you say that you were a smart student and I guess you were putting all your efforts into school because no matter which effort you put in at home, it didn't matter.
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So how were things at school and also in terms of friendships as well?
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Did did your friends have any idea what was going on?
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Did you talk to them about it?
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What age were you when this was happening?
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Oh, all along.
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They got together when I was probably five or six, so kindergarten-ish, and all the way up until she passed away in 2017, she was with him.
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He would leave occasionally and have, you know, other girlfriends in other households, but they wouldn't put up with his baloney and they would send him packing and he'd come back to my mom.
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So yeah, he was around always.
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But in terms of your friendships at school, did you ever I mean obviously as you got older and you were more able to talk about what was going on at school, did you ever talk about it amongst your friends?
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Yeah, my friends were were yeah, they were well aware and we avoided my house at all costs.
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And when we do, it was like, is he there?
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You know, like the walking on eggshells.
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Well, if we just go really quick to my room, you know.
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You said that you were favored by teachers as well.
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So what were you doing at school that you were I mean, obviously I think you were doing you said you were doing sports as well?
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No, I played a little sports in high school, but I had to quit because he required I get a job.
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Okay.
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And it didn't work, you know, school, work, and sports was a little challenging.
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Yeah.
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So let's move on to that because you said that um you started working when you were in high school.
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I mean, what age is that?
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I mean, what what age are you legally allowed to work in the States?
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I don't even know.
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I think it's 16.
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I think that's when you can get a per work bread.
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I think you can actually get one younger now.
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I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I believe I was right around 15 or 16 and he started putting the pressure on me to get a job.
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Why?
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I don't know.
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Because he had such a strong work ethic.
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I don't know, because he wanted me to make money, so there was more money for him.
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And your mom didn't intervene and say no, just keep up with your studies.
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No, my mom was also trying to fly under the radar and not encounter his wrath.
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No, she did not intervene.
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Okay.
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So you started working doing what?
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I worked at this fun t-shirt shop in this little shopping center that was very geared towards tourism because where I grew up was basically the port of Los Angeles.
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So that's where all the cruise ships docked, and so a lot of the cruisers would shop in this little village.
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And I joke about the how much it reminds me of where this the town I ended up living in when I moved to Catalina Island, the town of Avalon is very similar to that little port.
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So you got to meet a lot of people from different places.
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Yeah, but I was a kid, I you know, I was a teenager.
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I was more interested in the other teenagers working in the other shops, you know.
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We had the t-shirt shop, had the ice cream shop next door, the lemonade stand, you know.
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It was fun.
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I'm laughing because I grew up in the Bahamas, as I told you before.
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So in Nassau, where all the cruise ships come in as well.
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And I actually worked on a cruise ship one summer and I used to do stuff like hand out pamphlets to the people who were getting off the cruise ships.
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And I remember one person asked me once, do you speak English here?
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I thought, are you kidding me?
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You don't even know where you're where you're going, the people, what language they speak.
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But the reason I asked you that question was for me growing up in the Bahamas, I always had all these different people from all over the world, my teachers, people coming on the cruise ships, tourists, and I always thought, oh, where do they live?
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That's cool.
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I want to go.
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So I wanted to get out of there as soon as I could and leave there.
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And uh yeah.
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Anyway, let's see.
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What are the other opportunities that you think you missed out on because you were working at such an early age?
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Yeah, the the opportunity to play sports or participate in any extracurricular activity.
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Part of it was financial and part of it was like I had to work.
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And then once I had the job, you know, I did enjoy having the money.
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I enjoyed the people I worked with, and it was now a safe space, right?
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It was out of the house.
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So I worked a lot.
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I worked as much as I could.
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Did you have to hand over the money or could you keep it?
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No, I was just thinking about that.
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I'm like, no, I spent it all, I'm sure.
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I don't remember having a big savings at the end of high school.
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I'm sure part of it went to my mom.
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I don't have a really strong recollection of where all that money went, but it probably went a lot to me eating out, buying clothes, you know, typical teenage stuff.
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Yeah, I was just curious because you said the what did you call him?
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The villain.
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The villain.
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Yeah, I was about to say the monster.
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That's not it.
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The villain that he was the one who demanded you to have the job.
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So I was wondering if he demanded you also hand over your money as well.
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Yeah, I don't remember it was that obvious.
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I feel like I was just expected to pay for a lot more of my needs.
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And so that my mom had less financial responsibility toward me and probably could give him more.
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How did that affect your studies at school, if at all?
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My studies were okay.
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I went in a few rebellious phases.
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School was pretty easy for me, but there was a a point at time where I like I didn't get one of the classes I needed.
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And so they put me in, it was like a more academically enriched English class, and they put me in the regular English class, and I felt so othered in there because the teacher was constantly looking to me to like help the other students, which was great.
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But I was I went to school in a pretty diverse high school.
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I had terrible self-esteem issues because of the home I grew up in.
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And the way she went about it, it really othered me.
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It made me feel othered.
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And then the kids just looked at me as like the awkward, nerdy, you know, and I just decided I just stopped going to that class.
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So I just never went to that class again.
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Obviously, I failed it.
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So then I had to make it up in summer school, right?
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And usually summer school is the place for the bad kids.
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But I loved the teacher that I had for English that that summer school, and it I was more challenged.
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And so I went through some rebellious phases of schools that did affect my grades, but all in all, school was pretty easy.
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My teachers liked me.
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I liked my teachers.
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I had a a good group of friends, but for the most part, I was the shy, awkward, scrawny white girl.
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I don't know.
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And how did that play in your interactions with people when you say say you lacked confidence?
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I mean, how did that play out in your relationships with people?
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Yeah, in in general, I was still operating on that be seen and not heard, you know, like or trying to fly under the radar.
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I always sat in the back of the classroom, the back of any room I would go to, so I could, you know, be in the corner.
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Okay.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:12.399
Don't look at me.
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.559
Like I'm still I still don't like that, like drawing attention to myself.
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:20.159
It's really hard for me to speak up in a crowd, even when I know everybody.
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:20.879
All right.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:29.039
So you said that you applied to university, but you ended up just not being supported by your family and encouraged.
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:30.559
So what happened with that?
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:35.279
Yeah, I was accepted to a couple of the universities I applied to, all on my own, right?
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.159
Nobody, I don't even remember a counselor at school helping me.
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.559
I was just like, I love school, I love learning.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:42.080
Of course I want to go on.
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:51.840
And I applied and then recognized how much it was gonna cost and what am I gonna do and how am I gonna get there and zero re uh support from my family.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.879
And so I decided, okay, I guess I'm not gonna do that.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:59.360
And I just ended up going to junior college, still working.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:04.240
But because I was now 18, I wanted out of the house as soon as I could.
00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:10.640
So I ended up moving in with friends and becoming a full-fledged adult as soon as I could.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:16.559
So you studied general education and you had an interest in sciences, particularly marine biology.
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:17.200
I don't know.
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.599
That kind of fits for me with somebody growing up in California.
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.480
It does be interesting in marine biology.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:24.160
But why that in particular?
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.000
I mean, are you a big ocean person?
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:27.279
Yeah, definitely.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:38.640
I've recognized that as I've gotten older, the idea of moving different places, right, because it's more affordable or you can have a, you know, different things that you can't have really in Southern California.
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.759
And I always go back to, but there's no ocean there.
00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:53.839
I have gotten used to the idea of, oh, maybe if as long as there's a river or a lake nearby, some body of water, as long as I can look at and the sun can reflect off of it, I feel like they'll give me the same.
00:17:54.079 --> 00:18:03.759
That's funny because I was recently watching something and it was just these crashing waves coming on the beach with cliffs, and I was thinking, oh my gosh, I haven't been near water in two years.
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:04.640
I need to go.
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.599
And me growing up on an island, can you imagine?
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.400
You have to get a fix every now and then.
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:14.079
And there's a couple of lakes around where I live, but it's not the same.
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:18.400
Anyway, so you ended up moving to Catalina Island.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.119
So how did that whole thing happen?
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.240
Because you went there and then you came back and then you went again for good.
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:25.200
O h, yeah.
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:30.240
I'm loving this whole this is your life uh
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:30.880
flow.
00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:41.200
Um, after school, I was going, I was working full-time, supporting myself because of course I moved out right away.
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.119
I started dating a guy, we moved in together.
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:49.359
I quickly realized that I was in the same relationship my mother was.
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:54.480
I was like, I recognize this and I need to get out as soon as possible.
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:56.640
Luckily, I had the realization.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:03.039
I still remember calling my mom and telling her, I can't believe I said the words to her, but like I that I didn't want to end up like her.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.519
She was very gracious about it.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.119
And she says, I don't want you to end up like me either, you know?
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.599
So come home if you need to come home.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.279
And so that's what happened.
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:14.240
I moved home.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:28.960
And not only did I move home into that toxic soup again, but now because I had moved out and moved to a whole different part of Southern California, my job was an hour and a half commute from my mom's house.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.079
So I did that.
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:36.720
And then ironically, my ex's, the person I had moved out, one of his good friends was a girl, Jen.
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.559
She's actually who helped me move out of the house.
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.799
She's like, hey, let's go to Catalina Island for the weekend.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.799
You know, like you've you've been a lot going on.
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:44.400
Let's go over there and have a fun weekend.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:45.359
I was like, that sounds great.
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:45.839
Let's do it.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.599
I hadn't been to Catalina since I was a kid.
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:50.640
Explain exactly where Catalina Island is for people who don't know.
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.480
It is a small island off of the coast of Southern California.
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:55.519
It's 26 miles.
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.960
There's actually a song, 26 miles across the sea.
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:01.119
So it's about an hour boat ride these days.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:05.440
Back then it was closer to a two-hour boat road ride for the boat we could afford.
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:09.119
But we came over, had a great weekend, and decided we were going to move back.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.000
It was in March.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.039
So it was spring.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.359
The island was gearing up for their summers.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:17.119
She had worked here the summer before, so she already had a contact.
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:21.039
We put in our applications and were hired pretty much on the spot.
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:22.319
So that was in March.
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.400
And I moved back beginning of May.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:31.519
So I went home, packed up all my stuff, gave notice at my job, and moved to the island with pretty much nothing.
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.680
And what drew you to that island?
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:40.400
I mean, it's small because you said that when the tourists aren't there, there's only something like 5,000 people.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:44.160
Yeah, they say the the year-round population is around 5,000.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.119
I suspect it's a little bit more than that, but it's a good guesstimate.
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:53.440
I came that first weekend and we had the best time and met so many people and everyone was so nice.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.440
And it was it's it is.
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:56.960
I've it's like a family.
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.960
It's a very tight-knit community.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:00.319
Everybody knows everybody.
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:02.400
That's not always appealing to everybody.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.480
To me at the time, it very much was.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.640
So I was like, yeah, I'll come back for the summer.
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.240
We both moved back for the summer.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:09.119
I joke about it.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:13.920
She didn't even make it till the 4th of July, which is the big summer holiday in the United States.
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.440
She ran screaming from the island and I never left.
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.440
I'm here 35 years later.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:24.000
You started to work in hospitality in the resort industry.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:30.079
So how did you integrate into that community and sort of get yourself into working for a job?
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:39.680
Because when you think about it, you actually you've you found a job and you managed to stay there when it was off season, which, you know, doesn't always happen in places like that.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.359
So how did you manage that?
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:43.200
Because that's miraculous.
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.119
Because just like being a good student, I was a good employee.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:50.880
That's very good because yeah, I know I wanted to stay safe.
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.119
And so I was a good employee.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.960
I was and that that is part of the island culture.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.839
It is a big party town, you know, people are having fun.
00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:09.599
And maybe a little bit too much fun and showing up to work doesn't happen as regularly as or as timely or punctually, I guess is the word I'm looking for.
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.920
It was easy to be a good employee.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:13.359
The bar was pretty low.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.640
And guess also I was working for the company.
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:18.960
You know, you've heard the term a company town.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:23.119
This is very much a company town, and I worked for the company, the island company.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:27.119
So they were big enough to absorb some year-round employees.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:33.599
Because I was a good employee, I got invited to stay, and I was so, you know, honored I stayed.
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:36.960
And the problem is I didn't go back to school, but it all worked out.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:37.519
Okay.
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.839
And you never thought about following through with your marine biology interests?
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:43.039
Yeah, I thought about it.
00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:44.319
It would be great, right?
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:54.319
But I just got sucked into working and having fun with my friends and living my life and going to school, living on the island, especially at the time, because you just couldn't really do online stuff.
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:56.559
The internet barely existed, right?
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:01.279
So I did attempt to go back to school one or two classes a semester.
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:06.480
It proved to be too much and it was too financially difficult as well.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.960
So it just kind of petered away.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.400
And then I got pregnant.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:11.359
Surprise.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:12.640
That was my next question.
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:17.119
So you had two children with different fathers, and they were both unplanned.
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:18.000
Yeah.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.799
I don't do things the traditional way I've learned.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:23.200
But you didn't do it early.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.480
You still waited till you were, what, 26 and 30.
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.279
So you waited till you live life a bit.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:30.000
Yeah.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.839
No, I was actually capable of being a decent parent.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:43.519
So you had these two kids and raised them primarily as a single mom, but you still maintained uh friendly relationships with the fathers.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:44.240
Yeah.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.680
It was important to me, I think, because I grew up without a dad.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:57.839
It was important to me that my kids have relationships with their fathers and just to keep it easier, you know, it would be easier if we all get along than we all do still.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.559
And the fathers are on the island as well?
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:05.119
One has moved off, but the other is literally two houses up from me.
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:07.279
Co-parenting was easy then.
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.119
Oh, when we first split up, it was that partner definitely.
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:13.200
I lived right next door to him.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:18.880
And there was a window from my house that was up against the stairway leading to his house.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.079
So a lot of times my daughter would go back and forth through the window.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:36.799
And I guess because it's so small, I mean, we sort of have this phrase, a village raises the children, because you've got the same people, the characters who are there, I guess, year-round, and they all, I guess, help raise the kids.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.119
Yeah, because everybody knows everybody.
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:44.240
And I can remember when my son was young, he was on a school outing.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.279
They were out walking on the street, and he did something.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:48.799
It wasn't like he was being bad.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:50.240
He was just being a little mischievous.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.559
And somebody saw that and told me about it.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.640
Like as I saw Daniel, he would blah, blah, blah.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:58.559
And so I went to Daniel that night and I was like, oh, and I relayed the story.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:24:59.920
I didn't say who told me.
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.240
I just said and that was his first.
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.599
He's like, How do you know that?
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.519
I'm like, moms know everything.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.039
That was his first little lesson in like, everybody knows.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:10.480
So don't be a dork.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.000
They didn't mind that.
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.880
I mean, living in this very small, or they just didn't know any better.
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.440
No, I think they actually love it.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.200
And they still do.
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:23.599
I tried to move them off the island because I did try to do it the right way.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:31.680
I got married when my son was going into high school and we decided let's get you to the mainland into like a more challenging academic situation, you know?
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.640
It didn't last.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:38.720
He did two years, and he's like, I really would like to move back to the island so I can be there for my senior year with my friends.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:45.920
Also recognizing that the relationship I'd gotten myself into had uh features that I recognized again.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.079
So that marriage didn't last.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.240
And my son moved back to the island, and then my daughter and I followed pretty quickly.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:58.319
And this is the son you said that he was diagnosed with seizure disorder at the age of 14.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.039
Yes.
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:04.000
That was uh it happened just a few weeks after we relocated to the mainland.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:11.519
And I've written here to myself a note that says it's led to you going down a rabbit hole of doing research on nutrition.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:12.319
Why was that?
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.920
I was fascinated with everything about the brain.
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.200
It got me really into anything neurological.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.319
I read this book, uh, The Brain Gut Psychology.
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:29.440
It's mainly about uh autism and ADHD, but they did have one section in there about seizure disorders.
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.920
So I was like, hmm, this is interesting.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:40.319
And then of course, we're learning more about the ketogenic diet and other ways to work with seizures um and a diet.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:42.240
And did you do that and did it work?
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:42.720
No.
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:58.960
My son, who was also a very good kid, very easygoing, I started kind of pushing him on the diet idea, and he snapped at me and he says, Unless you can guarantee 100% that I'm never gonna have another seizure, I'm not changing the way I eat.
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:01.839
And that was his little teenage rebellious rebellion.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:03.359
And I'm like, you know what?
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:04.799
I I can respect that.
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.039
He'll he's gotta come to it in his own time.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.720
And luckily for him, his seizures were pretty well controlled with medication.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.119
I'm knocking on wood as I'm saying that.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.119
He hasn't had one and I think we gotta be getting up to two years.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.200
Maybe he's outgrown them, finally.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.000
Who knows?
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.759
I also learned at that time that doctors don't know everything.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.839
They actually know very little.
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:30.079
I mean, they know a lot more than we do, right?
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:37.039
They've been in school for a long time, but they can't possibly know everything about every system in the human body.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.359
The human body is pretty darn complex.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:57.119
Yeah, there was actually somebody else who I had on the show who she had seizures, and it turned out that later sh when she recognized that she had all this trauma that she had buried and sort of forgotten about because it was a it was abuse.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:08.079
And when she started to do that healing and realize and recognize all of that trauma, her seizures started to become less and less.
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:09.920
So it's interesting correlation.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.440
No, I 100% don't doubt that.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.400
And it's one thing I've talked to my son about it several times.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:30.640
He tries to reassure me, but I feel a lot of guilt for the move, moving to the mainland, believing that that was likely just too stressful for his teenage brain and body to navigate that.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:36.720
So I believe the stress of the move contributed to him developing that seizure disorder.
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.799
And your daughter was fine with the move?
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.880
Well, yeah, she was she was in third grade, so like nine-ish.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:44.720
My son is very much like me.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:58.160
He's a Virgo consummate, like he likes order, he's quiet, he's more contemplative, where my daughter is just bubbly and loves to tell stories and can talk to anybody.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.279
She doesn't think she can.
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:00.400
She'll be like, no, I can't.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.799
I'm like, oh my gosh, Madeline, you're so great at that, you know?
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:06.480
So she acclimated to the move much easier than he did.
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:09.599
And at that age, it's just easier to make friends when you're nine.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:17.279
And did you ever question the fact that you keep sort of having these relationships that were reflecting that of your mother?
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:18.000
Yeah.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.480
All of my stuff showing up in all of my relationships.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:21.279
Yeah, it's a thing.
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:21.599
Yeah.
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:26.640
And did you ever talk to anybody about that or have any kind of therapy at that point?
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:32.480
I went to therapy with my with my son's father, was the first time I went to therapy.
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:35.680
We did couples therapy that went over like a lead balloon.
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:38.240
And I saw her on my own for a while.
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.119
But then, yes, I saw therapists throughout the years.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:49.039
I'm also, when I was young, some of the happy childhood memories I have were of going to the library.
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:55.440
And I always, even at a young age, gravitated towards the self-help, personal development shelves.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.359
So I read a lot about different.
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:04.480
Of course, I'm like, shoot, she's gonna ask me about a book, and I'm like, I can't think of any books right now.
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:05.599
I won't, I won't.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:08.000
I read all these books and I can't think of one of them.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:09.039
But so I read a lot.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.039
It's the menopause, don't worry.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:24.240
Watched a lot of, I can remember being a kid watching Phil Donahue and you know, Oprah, and you learn a lot about just hearing other people's stories and like what she experienced is a lot like me, and they're saying that that is trauma.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:24.880
What's this?
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:25.759
What what is that?
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:30.960
I don't, I don't that, you know, because you know, I didn't always have a lot of money.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.039
I was working hard, but as we all know, the minimum wage isn't enough to sustain anybody, especially in Southern California.
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:44.319
So I didn't have the extra money to go to a therapist most of my adult, young adult life.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:45.119
All right.
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:53.200
So let's move to the year 2017 to 2018, because that's what you call the year of suck.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:57.839
I've called it many things, so that is that is an accurate description.
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.480
It started off, I guess, with your mom.
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:01.440
Yes.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.039
My mom was diagnosed with a form of leukemia.
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.839
Of course, it's sad, devastating.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:09.359
I'm like, how can I help?
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:14.960
Everything's fine, you know, Mike her, the villain.
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:16.480
He's being so great.
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:18.160
He's taking such good care of me.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.559
And I'm like, oh little suspect, but I'm so happy.
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:23.119
That's great.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:24.400
I'm glad he's stepping up.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:32.960
She had been invited into a trial in Stanford, which is a prestigious school in the Bay Area.
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.000
So that was hopeful and exciting.
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:39.519
And then she got the flu and she ended up in the hospital.
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:41.680
Um, I talked to her, she's in the hospital.
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.640
they were going to discharge her because she was better.
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.079
And then she was going up to Stanford a couple days after that.
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:56.480
We had agreed I was going to come over and take her to Stanford because, oh, surprise, surprise, he wasn't being as helpful as she had originally said he was.
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.319
So I was making plans to come over a couple days.
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:02.559
She went home after the flu.
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:17.680
And either because I believe he contributed to her passing because she ended up falling and hitting her head and had a brain contusion, or I don't I don't know the medical terminology at this point.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.559
Lost consciousness and never regained consciousness.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:29.920
So if he was supposed to be taking care of her, if he wasn't there and she fell, or even worse, he pushed her in some way, she fell.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.039
That was that.
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:42.960
So he called me and I got on the first boat, got over there, but she never regained consciousness because they were never legally married, all the decisions were to me to decide.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:46.559
So yeah, I spent that day with her as she passed.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.559
And it was probably the first day I'd probably the first day I'd spent with her in years, maybe.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:09.279
Yeah, because I was just gonna ask you, had you ever really, for lack of a better word, say reconciled or talked to her about, you know, your whole life and what was happening, or at that point were you really not very conscious still of what it had initiated in your own life?
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:14.799
No, I didn't have exactly the words to know exactly how it had impacted my life.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:19.759
I just knew it wasn't good and it wasn't something I wanted my kids around.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.079
So it we did talk about it over the years.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.359
Like she knew what my feelings were and she understood.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:32.880
It doesn't make it any easier to think about mourning my mom, but then also mourning the relationship we never had.
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.519
It's a whole different, a whole nother level to the impact of the loss.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:47.759
But no, yeah, it was when my my son was younger and I wanted to go do something and I needed a babysitter, and I remember taking him to see grandma because that would be fun, right?
00:33:47.759 --> 00:34:00.880
I had a great relationship with my grandma, but then I remember picking him up and he was there, the villain, and thinking like, shit, wait, am I allowed to I forgot to ask, am I allowed to potty mouth on your fine.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:01.839
Okay, it's fine.
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:02.880
You can potty mouth.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:04.720
I'm like, yeah, that's right.
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.039
I don't want my son in this house.
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:08.639
Like, what am I thinking?
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:09.599
This isn't good.
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:13.199
So the I talked to my mom, I'm like, I'm just not really comfortable.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:17.760
So then from then on out, when she would come to the island and spend time with him.
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:21.119
Yeah, that's how it was most of their younger childhood.
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.199
Then as they got older, it got less and less.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:28.880
So yeah, right before she passed, we weren't really in each other's lives that regularly.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:32.239
So was that the end of any of your dealings with the villain?
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:33.920
You would think, right?
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:35.360
No, I got a call.
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.199
Gosh, it wasn't even a full year.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:43.760
No, it wasn't a full year after my mom passed from this woman claiming to be my dad's girlfriend.
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:49.760
Because remember, I told you I finally did meet my biological father when I was uh 25, but he had already passed.
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:54.079
So I was like, my my dad's dead and I know his wife.
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:55.119
Like, what are you doing?
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:57.360
Like, who is this trying to figure out what is going on?
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:58.960
Like, I think you've got the wrong number.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:02.559
And then she said, Mike, and I'm like, oh, well, that's not my dad.
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:07.039
And then I'm like, were you aware of my mom who just passed like eight months ago?
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.119
And she's like, Oh yeah, I'm aware.
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:10.480
I'm aware of her.
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.920
I I said, Do you mind me asking how long you've been with him?
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.079
And she said, 10 years.
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:19.519
And I said, Coming again, were you aware of my mom?
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:20.239
Oh, yes.
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:27.119
So the story he had told her is that he stayed with my mom, who was an alcoholic, which is ridiculous.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:28.559
He was an alcoholic.
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.119
He stayed with her because she was an alcoholic.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:34.400
So he stayed to take care of her so I wouldn't have to.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:35.280
Wow.
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:36.239
Right?
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.000
This is what this woman's telling me.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.280
And I'm like, I mean, I was vibrating.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:43.280
And for 10 years she believed that.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.320
Yeah, for 10 years.
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:45.920
Uh, she's she still believes it.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:58.559
So the reason she was calling me is he was in a medically induced coma and needed some sort of procedure, but they needed authorization from a family member to proceed.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.000
So he needed some self-life-saving procedure.
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.440
And I'm like, damn, I should have said I was his daughter.
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:06.960
Missed opportunity.
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.119
And I'm just like, sorry, I can't help you.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:11.519
I know very little about his family.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:18.639
He never talked about his family because I think they probably, I don't know, maybe they were abusive, and that's why he didn't talk about them.
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:24.480
Or maybe they like, you know, go on, get out of here, because you are a problem.
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:31.840
And he ended up getting the authorization from someone, or it got emergent enough that the hospital was able to proceed to save his life.
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.679
But as far as I know, he is still alive.
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:34.159
All right.
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:34.880
Let's just move on.
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:35.840
Yeah That was a tangent.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:37.199
Yeah, that was a long t angent.
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:43.280
Because that is just too weird to even imagine that somebody is with somebody for 10 years and believes such a lie anyway.
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:43.760
Yeah.
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:44.400
Bonkers.
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:45.360
Yeah, I guess we put blinders on.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:46.480
He was good.
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:53.280
He was manipulative, and I'm sure he was gaslighting and emotionally abusing her just like he did my mom.
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:54.079
All right.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:00.800
I don't know if this came next or if it was your cousin's death, but you said you were hemorrhaging.
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:10.480
The time my mom got sick, I was also having my own medical issues, female issues where I uh was hemorrhaging, come to find out there was a fibroid.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.960
And so that was just right after my mom passed away.
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:15.199
I went to get the fibroid removed.
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:26.400
And she's like, hmm, because of course our medical system is so weird, but they can only do the procedure with a certain machine, and they can only use the machine in a certain way.
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:31.199
And because of the size of the fibroid and the way the machine works, they were only able to get certain so much.
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:33.039
So I was gonna have to get another procedure.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:34.400
But she got as much as she could.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:35.760
And I'm like, great.
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.119
I had a trip to Europe planned in June.
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:44.320
So she's like, we'll wait until you get back from Europe and then we'll do the other procedure then.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:49.920
Until then, I want you to take this birth control that will help thin the lining of your uterus.
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:54.000
So when you come back and we do the ablation, it'll be more effective.
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.119
Sounds great.
00:37:55.119 --> 00:38:01.360
Also recognizing the reason I have two kids is I could never take hormonal birth control.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:05.280
It made me either homicidal or suicidal.
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:08.239
So like it did not work for my system.
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:12.400
And I'm like, hmm, I wonder how it's gonna be taking this birth control.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.239
I only have to do it for a couple months.
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:15.440
I'm much older now.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:16.639
I'll see how it goes.
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:22.239
So I took the birth control and I'm still having issues.
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.679
It was probably three days before we were leaving to Europe.
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:27.599
It was my daughter's last day of school.
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.119
She was looking for a pair of shorts.
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.320
She had also had an ankle injury, so she was on crutches at the time.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:39.920
So I ran downstairs to help her find her shorts and proceeded to pass out in the middle of the dining room.
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.320
That led to a trip to the hospital.
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.280
They're like, your blood levels are way too low.
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:52.000
That ended to a life flight getting flown to the mainland for emergency blood transfusions.
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.559
And they were going to obviously do the ablation then.
00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:02.320
So me, I'm like, I've got a trip to Europe planned in two days.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:03.840
My doctor, God bless her.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:07.360
She she was the longest relationship of my life.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.360
And she's like, oh my gosh, Debbie.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.159
She's like, well, I can't tell you you can't go.
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:18.960
And she's like, the only way you're gonna do it is if we can get you in scheduled for the first procedure.
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.400
So her scheduler called me, who I'd known for years also.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:24.719
I'm like, all right, Jan, get me in first thing.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.599
I've got a flight to Europe tomorrow night.
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.159
And so sure enough, she was able to get me in first thing.
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:33.519
I had the ablation, I had all this brand new blood on board.
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:34.559
I had so much energy.
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:36.320
I'm like, let's go, we're going to Europe.
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:47.199
So we went to Europe, landed in London, and we were walking down by the river, and there was a big theater poster for a production of the amazing bleeding woman.
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:48.639
No way.
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:50.800
Oh my what the heck is that?
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:58.239
So I of course took a picture of it and sent it to my my good friend, who was the nurse at the ER here on the island when I got taken up there that day.
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:04.159
And I sent her, and we were trying to figure out if I couldn't go to Europe, if I could just let give her my trip.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.320
Anyways, so I sent her that poster.
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:07.199
That was pretty funny.
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:12.480
Um, so yeah, the year was full of so many lows and a lot of highs.
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.719
Like, so that was that summer.
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.760
Of course, the ablation didn't end up working either.
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:23.360
I ended up having to get a hysterectomy a few months later at the end of summer, which also came with the bonus feature.
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:30.079
I know we were talking about bonus features before we started recording, but that's what I dub all these fun things that happen when you age.
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:31.519
They're my bonus features.
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:35.519
But bonus feature to my hysterectomy is they sliced open my bladder.
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:45.920
So I ended up going home with this fun catheter for two weeks, which I uh I uh actually got used to.
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.440
It was kind of handy not having to get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:51.280
You're so positive.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:53.519
I like to go to concerts.
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:55.280
I never had to wait in line.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:41:01.920
I literally could go um into the porta potty and use the urinal because I just had a little hose.
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:04.320
Lots of benefits to having a catheter.
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:11.440
But luckily, I got the catheter out right before what happened in October of 2017.
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:12.639
Festival.
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:13.519
Yes.
00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:17.840
Because I did, I went to other music festivals that summer because I do like concerts.
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:20.239
Um but the end of summer I was going to one.
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.760
I was supposed to go with friends, most of them decided last minute not to go.
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:28.400
But since I already had tickets, I already had a place to stay, it was in Las Vegas.
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:34.159
Maybe you all know where we're leading to the um country's largest mass shooting.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.039
In a country that's known for its mass shootings.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:45.280
I went to Las Vegas in well, it was the end of September for the Route 91 music festival.
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:53.760
I'm gonna ask you to talk about this because it is unimaginable to most people what you experienced.
00:41:53.760 --> 00:42:09.360
And it is unimaginable outside of the United States, I think, to a lot of people, because this type of gun community, or whatever you want to call it, that's happening in the States just does not happen in a lot of other countries.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:13.440
And, you know, where I'm in Europe, you know, you're not allowed to carry guns like that.
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:15.679
Makes perfect sense to me.
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:20.880
So do you mind just talking about it a little bit and what happened?
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:31.440
And you don't have to go into any graphic details, but you know, talk about yourself also and and what was going on in your head as this was happening.
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:41.199
No, I recognize too, and ironically the rescheduling, rescheduling as we've now we're a week away from the anniversary.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:51.760
So knowing what I do about about trauma and anniversary dates, I'm going to proceed with caution because I don't want to get too activated myself.
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:52.400
Okay.
00:42:52.639 --> 00:43:07.199
I know how to take care of myself, but I also know this close to the anniversary date, revisiting it in too much detail is a a good chance of spinning me in ways that I I don't really want to be spun currently.
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:07.840
Okay.
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:11.119
Well, just talk about it in ways that you feel comfortable.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:11.840
Yeah.
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.760
So it was the music festival.
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:14.239
It was fun.
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:14.880
It was great.
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:25.599
The highlight of that music festival is I finally got TSA TSA pre-check, which is a way to get through the line at the airport quicker here in the States.
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:29.760
I had always resisted applying for it because you had to go to the airport and have an appointment.
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.840
And I live on an island, that was too much work.
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.159
But at the uh festival, they actually had a booth.
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.960
So Friday night of the festival, I went and did that.
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.400
And so it's the the highlight from that weekend.
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:41.840
I mean, there were other highlights too.
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:42.480
It was a lot of fun.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:48.000
I was there with a group of friends because as I said, my closer friends decided not to go.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:51.679
But being from an island, everybody knows everybody.
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:53.519
So there were other people from the island going.
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:56.400
So I just like, hey, I'm gonna hang out with you guys.
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:58.239
And so that's what we did.
00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.280
It was great.
00:43:59.280 --> 00:43:59.760
It was fun.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:08.639
Ironically, I realized if I had been there with my other friends, we likely would have gone to the other side.
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:21.199
So there's the stage and the catwalk, and there is what I would perceive as the person in the audience on the right hand of the stage and the left hand of the stage.
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:24.559
We were standing on the left hand of the catwalk.
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:28.960
But I probably shouldn't say this on the show either, but I'm going to.
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:39.920
One of the members in our group, we had other friends on the other side of the catwalk, but one of the members from our group was having an affair with one of the people from over there.
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:42.639
So obviously she couldn't take her husband over to that side.
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:44.960
So it was like, no, we're staying on this side.
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:47.920
Had I been with my other friends, we would have been on the other side.
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:53.119
Unfortunately, the other side, what was dubbed the kill zone because that's where the most people were killed.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:58.320
And one of our friends from the other group, one of their friends, was actually killed.
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.519
But what is it like?
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:02.960
We're enjoying our concert, listening to music, dancing.
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:07.679
At the time, I was in a group of eight couples and me.
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:09.760
So is the ninth wheel.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:11.840
But everybody had dispersed.
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:16.719
Like one of the couples had gone up to the rail because they wanted to be close.
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:22.079
A couple of the other ones went and sat back at this little seating area because it was Sunday night.
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:22.960
So they were tired.
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:24.000
They wanted to sit down.
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.480
And my friend and her husband, my friend had gone to the bathroom.
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:33.280
So it was, I was hanging with her husband watching the show while she was at the bathroom.
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.440
And we start hearing popping sounds.
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.400
And we both joked about it being fireworks.
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:39.360
Like, who's doing that?
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:40.559
That's not very smart.
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:43.840
And then of course he runs off stage and we're like, that's weird.
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:48.719
And then of course they turn on the lights and we're like, okay, all this over fireworks, it seems a little dramatic.
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:52.880
And then I see somebody running by and I see the look on their face, and I was like, those aren't fireworks.
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.159
And so we both lay on the ground and I just look at him, I'm like, we got to go find his wife.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.159
So yeah, we ran to the bathrooms.
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:07.519
And funny, because when I worked for the company, the island island company, one of my last corporate positions there was safety officer.
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:11.920
So I was already a person who noticed exits and, you know, egress.
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:17.679
And so when we had gone to the bathrooms the first day, I noticed that there was only one way in and out.
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:19.280
And I'm like, well, that's not very safe.
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:20.880
And the opening wasn't that big.
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:22.639
And so I had already had this idea.
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:24.800
I'm like, well, I could just climb over that back fence.
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:28.000
Mind you, I just had a hysterectomy a few weeks before.
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:30.800
I'd just gotten the catheter removed.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:34.320
And so that's where my brain went when we went to the bathrooms.
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:34.880
We couldn't find her.
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:39.119
I'm like, well, I'm certainly not going back out the entryway because that's where the shooting's happening.
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:40.559
I'm going to climb over the fence.
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.159
And my friend's husband was like, you are not climbing over that fence.
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:48.639
And we proceeded to go out the entrance and just walk.
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:53.840
And the strangest thing that I remember from that moment was the police were coming in, right?
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:57.920
They had opened the fences, so they were big, gates opened.
00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:07.679
And you have the police with all their gear in their cars, and they're like going into the um the fairgrounds or the concert grounds.
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:11.440
And we're just all walking around like nothing.
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:14.480
We have nothing protecting us, nothing to hide behind.
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:16.079
It was just so weird.
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:18.000
Then it was just chaos.
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:22.400
We were busy trying to find his wife, which is where we went.
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:23.920
We heard from all of our friends.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:25.760
I checked in with my kids right away.
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:30.639
Luckily, my son had just gotten off work and he was at his friend's house and they were watching TV, so they saw the news.
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.239
So he's like, oh my God, thanks.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.360
My daughter just thought I had had too much to drink.
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:39.119
And I was in the I love you, I love you, man, phase of the evening.
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:44.400
Like I was just, you know, espousing my love for her for no reason at all.
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:48.079
So she didn't know about the shooting until the morning, luckily.
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:53.840
And people running around screaming all the things you imagine from a shooting.
00:47:53.840 --> 00:48:00.960
Then we spent the next few hours trying to locate his wife, whose phone had died.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:06.960
That's why one of my go-to trauma responses is my devices are always charged.
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:10.239
If somebody is near, it bothers me.
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:16.480
Also, I don't like to have responsibility for other people's stuff in group experiences like that.
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.679
Because, and it's stupid, she left her bag with him and he forgot it.
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:24.159
They fought about that, I think, for years.
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:29.199
And I'm like, I don't want responsibilities for anybody's stuff because if I gotta go, I gotta go, and I don't want to hear about it, you know.
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.320
So like, which is not like me because normally I'm like a helper.
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:36.559
I want to help people, but that's just one thing that really makes me anxious.
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:41.920
Like at the airport, when you leave your stuff with me, I want to do it because that's a kind, friendly thing to do.
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:56.559
But the internal dialogue that is happening and the, you know, probably bilatical bilateral stimulation, the breathing, the counting my breaths, you know, like all the things I'm doing to regulate, to do something so silly as to watch my friend's luggage at the airport.
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.079
And is that since the shooting, or is that before?
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.840
No, that wasn't before.
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.280
That was definitely that's part of how it shows up, right?
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.320
Trauma shows up in weird ways for everybody.
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:09.440
It's everybody's different.
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.840
How many people died in that incident?
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.039
I think the count was 58.
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:19.360
I'm I'm certain several since then have taken their own lives.
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:20.400
Really?
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:21.280
Oh yeah.
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:28.719
I feel like there were some directly after who took their lives, and I'm sure since then there are more.
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.400
I haven't researched that.
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:31.360
It's an assumption.
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:35.360
I feel like it's a pretty educated guess.
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:43.280
I do also volunteer for what was called the Las Vegas Resiliency Center.
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:55.920
It has since they've changed their name to Justice and Resilience in there now because a lot of these resiliency centers pop up after mass violence events, but then they're own they're short-lived.
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:58.239
They only have funding for a certain period of time.
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:11.119
But because this one was so big, they've managed to hold on to their funding and they're now a permanent organization and they help people not just from Route 91, but from other mass shooting survivors.
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:21.280
So I work as a uh peer mentor, so I work with other people who have survived mass violence events to help them complement whatever therapy they're they're working on.
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:25.679
Just I also am a life coach, so it it works well.
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:32.480
So obviously, yeah, we'll get to that because obviously you're not doing that without having done all the work on yourself first.
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:33.599
Yes, yes.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:38.159
I didn't, it wasn't like November of 2017 that I was signing up to do that.
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:39.360
Certainly not.
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:41.199
All right, thank you for sharing that.
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:42.639
I know that was a bit difficult.
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:46.239
All right, so then you had something else happened.
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:48.480
Your cousin died as well.
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:49.039
Yeah.
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:49.440
Yeah.
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:57.599
So after the shooting, I was dealing with my cousin who was my closest family member at the time.
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:02.239
We talked a lot about my childhood as it was with my mom and her boyfriend.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:05.519
The rest of the family was challenging as well.
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:10.239
I never really felt like I fit in until my little cousin came along.
00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:12.159
He was 10 years younger than me.
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:18.000
But there was a fair amount of trauma happening in the other households of my families, of my cousins and and such.
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:25.199
And so when he was 12, he called the police on his mom and got himself removed from the home.
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:29.440
So he was raised in the foster system, which has its own trauma.
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:37.440
So there was a period when I first had my son that my partner and I were trying to jump through the hoops to bring him to live with us.
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:44.480
But there's just so much red tape and so many things that had to, and our housing, we just couldn't get it to pass.
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:51.679
So when he was 18, as soon as he was aged out, he worked for the boat that brings people back and forth to the island.
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:56.480
He was very connected to the island, and we were in each other's lives.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:58.400
And then he eventually moved to the island.
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:04.800
But because of the life he had experienced, he had developed a very uh strong relationship with alcohol.
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.760
That was his go-to coping mechanism.
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:09.039
So he was an alcoholic.
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:10.239
It was my mom's birthday.
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:16.159
We'd all gotten together to celebrate my mom, who was kind of our memorial service as a family together.
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:19.760
Um, and he told me that he had cancer.
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:20.960
I was like, what?
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:26.239
And so, of course, concerned, he had a girlfriend at the time that was supposedly going to doctor's appointment with him.
00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:28.079
And again, somebody else is taking care.
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:30.159
I'm trying to intercede where I can.
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:32.800
As the time went on, we realized it wasn't cancer.
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.480
He wasn't dying from cancer.
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:38.320
He was an alcoholic and he was drinking himself to death.
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:44.079
The girlfriend moved away, so then I was able to be the emergency contact.
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.440
So I got to understand a little bit better what was going on with him.
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:55.440
And try as we may, he lost his battle with alcohol almost a year to the date of losing my mom.
00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:03.119
So my mom died April 28th of 2017, and he died May 1st, 2018.
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:08.400
So that's why I call it the year of suck, because it was a 12-month container pretty much.
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:16.000
And the weird thing is I used to get so annoyed with him after the shooting and before he passed, so it was a short period of time.
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:19.360
But he would tell other people how much the shooting had changed me.
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:21.360
And I'm like, it hasn't changed me.
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:25.119
He's just saying that because I'm giving a hard time about his drinking.
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:32.719
But the reality is, after he passed, I realized, yes, he was just annoyed that I was giving him a hard time about his drinking.
00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:36.239
But he was also right that the shooting has had changed me.
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:45.440
I don't know how anybody can go through a traumatic experience like that or similar to that and not be impacted and changed in some way.
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:49.679
I believe it is eventually it changed me for the better.
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:52.719
That post-traumatic growth that people talk about.
00:53:53.199 --> 00:54:03.119
Yeah, because you said that later that you met with a PTSD specialist and learned many normal life experiences are actually traumatic.
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:06.880
What you are thinking is normal is actually traumatic.
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:09.760
Yeah, that happened right after the the shooting.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:18.800
Our local hospital administrator, who had also been a survivor of an active shooter event, he knew exactly what we were going through because he had gone through it.
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:20.800
So he right away got us together to talk about it.
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:22.960
And then he brought a PTSD specialist over.
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:24.719
That was another thing about the community, right?
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:26.880
Like we come together, we experienced it together.
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:28.159
So we were in it together.
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:32.639
And the PTSD specialist was talking to us about things, the ways we might be feeling.
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:34.880
And I was like, Yep, check, check, check.
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:36.960
But I've been feeling this way for about 10 years.
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:38.480
What's up with that?
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:38.960
You know?
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:46.880
So recognizing that a lot of the things we experience in our lives, our body processes as trauma.
00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:52.320
And was that a shock to you to realize that you were carrying so much and for so long?
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:56.559
I don't know if it was a shock, but it was definitely a aha.
00:54:56.559 --> 00:55:00.559
Like, oh yeah, like that feeling of all the pieces kind of fitting together.
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:02.000
Like that makes a lot of sense.
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:08.000
And eventually, after talking about it with my therapists, like, of course, yes, of course that is trauma.
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:08.639
Yeah.
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:11.280
That would be traumatic to your system.
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:15.599
So once you had sort of had that aha moment, what did you do about it?
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:16.559
Oh, nothing.
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.559
I went carried on with my life.
00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:19.199
I was fine.
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:20.159
Everything's fine.
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:20.719
Okay.
00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:22.480
Not a damn thing.
00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:23.840
I had to keep working.
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:25.039
I had kids to take care of.
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:26.480
Like I had shit to do.
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:28.239
The dishes are piling up.
00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:28.800
Yes.
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:33.199
I had to check all the boxes and do all the things I was supposed to be doing.
00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:42.559
And it wasn't until a couple years later that I realized, yeah, you're not really like all those things you're supposed to be doing, all those boxes you're checking, you are like barely checking them.
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:44.800
I describe it as a slow stumble.
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:52.480
Like when you're starting to fall and your feet are your top half is going faster than your bottom half, and you're about ready to do the face plant.
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:55.519
I hadn't faceplanted yet, but I was very it was getting very close.
00:55:55.840 --> 00:56:07.440
And then you took medical leave in 2019 because you said a friend gave you almost permission and told you that she's taken leave for things that are even less than what you had experienced.
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:11.199
Yeah, she said, I've taken time off for far less than what you've got going on.
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:13.280
And I was like, taking time off?
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:14.400
Wait, what?
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:15.199
What's that?
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:16.719
What is this you speak of?
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:23.199
Mind you, I'd worked in HR, so I'd facilitated many leaves of absences for various reasons for lots of people.
00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:25.679
Why had I not given myself permission?
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:26.559
I don't know.
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:32.559
But I thank the stars that she said those words to me because then I'm like, yeah, maybe I should do that.
00:56:32.559 --> 00:56:37.039
And so talked to my doctor and I was like, that's not a bad idea.
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:38.719
And got some time off work.
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:44.719
And then, of course, that brings up all kinds of stuff when you're not working and you're supposedly working on yourself.
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:46.320
Lots of time to think.
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.519
Well, and like, who am I to take this, take this time?
00:56:49.519 --> 00:57:03.760
And especially in the States, a lot of our worth is tied to being productive members of society, being good employees, being the cogs in the machine that keeps Empire running.
00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:06.159
And so I was like, who am I?
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:07.280
Like, what am I doing?
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.039
Like, I've got to figure this out.
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:12.079
I was like, let's figure this out because I got to get back to work.
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:13.440
Come on, Debbie, figure it out.
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:14.559
You got to get back to work.
00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:17.199
That was where I was at the beginning of 2020.
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:22.480
Mind you, I then went on a very nice vacation to a music festival out of the country.
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:27.119
That's when all the COVID stuff started to hit the fan.
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:34.400
We were in actually the Dominican Republic, and they had a lot of European travelers there.
00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:36.800
Uh, there was a lot of Italian travelers.
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:40.719
And remember when it was all first happening, Italy was one of the places that was hit.
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:45.119
So the Dominican was talking about closing their airport and like starting to do these things.
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:47.119
And we're like, wait a minute, are we gonna be able to get home?
00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:48.079
Like, what's going on?
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:48.800
This is weird.
00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:54.880
Because we had been in this little bubble at an all-inclusive resort at this music festival, like not paying any attention to the world.
00:57:54.880 --> 00:58:00.320
Then we went and stayed at a till closer to the airport and we're watching the news and we're like, oh my goodness, what's going on?
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:04.559
So yeah, it came back to that, and that's a whole nother layer of work.
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:09.360
But now it's like we all are stuck at home and getting to know ourselves better.
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:10.800
Ooh, and how does that feel?
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.480
Does that feel comfortable?
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:15.280
Feel uncomfortable, unsure, like uncertain?
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:16.559
Hmm, this is strange.
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:17.360
I don't know.
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:21.679
I'm scared, I don't like this, all that stuff that was happening.
00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:24.239
But I had had a a couple month runway.
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:27.360
So I was just starting to feel like, okay, this is okay.
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:30.719
Like, why can't we live at this pace all the time?
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:34.000
And then when everybody else was freaking out, I'm like, oh, it's okay.
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.960
We could do this.
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:36.159
It's gonna be all right.
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:37.039
Just relax.
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:39.360
You don't have to be doing and going all the time.
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:40.800
You can be a human being.
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:41.599
Just be.
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:42.480
It's okay.
00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:43.920
You stopped working.
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:46.480
I would imagine the whole island must have just shut down.
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:48.719
We had, you know, frontline employees.
00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:55.679
We had our grocery store, our hospital restaurants that stayed open and did takeout, delivery.
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.079
It was another time where it was really nice to see that community coming together.
00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:11.599
I know we weren't supposed to be out hiking, but I would go out hiking, and it was really cool to see families out enjoying the trails that you know never had the time to do that.
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:18.000
Because to live here, especially working in the service industry, most people have to work several jobs to just survive.
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:22.480
So here now they have time off, they could actually go for a hike with their kids.
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:25.199
And were your kids on the island at that time?
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.920
Well, yeah, I was a happy mama bear.
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:29.599
Like both of my kids were home.
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.079
Of course, my daughter was in Iowa but got sent home.
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:33.199
My son was home.
00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:36.719
His significant other, now wife, lived with us.
00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:41.760
So if their relationship survived the pandemic, living with his mom and they're now married.
00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:48.000
And you said that during that time you participated in every free coaching program you can find.
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:48.719
Yes.
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:50.880
Because I was that lifelong learner.
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:51.760
I like to learn.
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:57.199
I loved, if I had gotten my degree, I have no doubt it would have been in psych psychology somehow.
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:02.880
Because I'm just fascinated by what makes us do what we do, how we become who we are, what makes us tick.
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:03.920
I'm just fascinated by all that.
01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:06.639
But how did you get turned on to coaching in particular?
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:12.639
All through 2017, I was listening to a podcast called Don't Keep Your Day Job.
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:18.960
A little foreshadowing of, but like, so hmm, was I happy in my current job?
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:20.480
I don't think so.
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:27.119
So I was listening to that podcast, and so I followed that, the woman who hosted the podcast, a woman named Kathy Heller.
01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:32.480
So I was following her on socials, and so an ad came up for this free thing she was doing.
01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:34.000
I was like, oh, that sounds fun.
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:35.840
Got time, I'll check it out.
01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:45.280
And then, of course, it was a live launch to offer her group coaching program, which was all about creating a creative business online.
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:53.840
So she had done other coaching cohorts about helping people create creative businesses because that's what her podcast was essentially about.
01:00:53.840 --> 01:00:56.800
Like, so then she did this online version.
01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:58.559
It was called Made to Do This.
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:14.079
And I'm not saying it was instantaneous or automatic or it did everything for me that I needed it to, but it gave me exactly what I needed to get started down the path that I'm still on today, really, the entrepreneurial path.
01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:29.679
It was also because when I was a kid, somewhere along probably teen years, I'd heard a someone was talking about a study that if your parents are employees, like they work for a corporation, you're whatever exponentially more likely to be an employee.
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:36.320
And if your parents were entrepreneurs or business owners, you're more likely to follow their path, which makes sense.
01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:38.559
So in my brain, I'm like, oh, my mom was an employee.
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:39.679
I'm just gonna be an employee.
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:40.880
I'm always gonna be an employee.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:47.599
So I never even contemplated what it would be like to build something for myself until 2020.
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:51.440
And I was like, yeah, I've done a lot for a lot of other people.
01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:53.519
Why can't I do something for myself?
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:54.480
That's crazy.
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:55.679
I don't like that philosophy.
01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:56.960
That kind of boxes you in.
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:58.559
The study that I heard?
01:01:58.559 --> 01:01:59.119
Yeah.
01:01:59.119 --> 01:01:59.679
Yeah.
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:05.840
And the fact that I heard it and just took it in as such fact, which isn't like me.
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:06.960
Yeah, I don't know.
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:08.480
Sometimes I think about these studies.
01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:15.119
You know, they what proportion of the billions of people on this planet do they actually include in these studies?
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:24.480
Anyway, I could feel myself getting irritated already at being this idea of all these studies that box people in because of these small findings that they have.
01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:32.000
They don't do them on different cultures, they don't do them on different ethnicities, they don't do them on different countries, whatever.
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:34.400
Well, yeah, and the other things that play into it.
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:36.079
Like it could be the privilege of it.
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:47.840
Like if your parent is a successful business owner, chances are you might be a little more affluent than my mom who's busting her butt or some corporation who's paying her just enough to keep her there, you know?
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:52.559
And so, yeah, this other person might have more opportunity to explore.
01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:54.639
They also might have a bigger safety net.
01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:58.800
Like I knew if I didn't take care of myself, my mom wasn't gonna be able to take care of me.
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:00.880
Like I had to take care of myself.
01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:04.480
So, of course, I'm gonna do something that's secure and stable.
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:08.159
If I take a risk and lose everything, what's gonna happen?
01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:09.280
I'm gonna be on the street.
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:10.480
I have no safety net.
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:10.960
Yeah.
01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:18.480
But then COVID sort of gave you the little push and the door opening to consider otherwise, which I think it did for a lot of people, actually.
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:21.039
Right, because our basic needs were being met, right?
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:38.159
We were getting a little bit of money to support ourselves, enough to support ourselves, and we had the time and space to like, I say get to know ourselves again because I feel like so much of our lives, especially here in the States, we're like checking the boxes, doing the things on autopilot, especially with social media.
01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:42.000
You're looking around at what everybody else has got, like, oh, I want that too.
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.199
Why are you spending so much just because somebody else has it?
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:46.880
It's just annoying.
01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:48.960
But it's also our human nature.
01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:50.960
So how do we disrupt that?
01:03:51.199 --> 01:03:59.920
Yeah, I know there were a lot of people who did not handle that time in COVID and they were going stir crazy because people were not used to sitting with themselves.
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:04.960
And because there were many people who were by themselves as well, they couldn't handle it.
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.599
Well, yeah, and it was depression, I think, that came out of that.
01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:08.559
There definitely was.
01:04:08.559 --> 01:04:13.440
Like, and I recognize that my COVID experience was a lot different than other people's.
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:18.480
I had a really good, positive COVID experience, and I know there are a lot of people who didn't.
01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:23.360
It was a scary, lonely time, and it was a scary time, and it was traumatic.
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:24.320
People lost people.
01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:26.159
I was fortunate enough not to lose anybody.
01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:28.960
Of course, I had already lost most of my family.
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:33.280
So yeah, it was definitely a time of contrast.
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:37.679
A lot of good things were happening and a lot of horrible things were happening.
01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:38.239
Yeah.
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:44.960
I think that was also part of my getting comfortable with that idea of holding two ideas at the same time.
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:49.679
Like the fact that my mom did the best she could and it did harm to me.
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:56.639
There is, especially in time in history we're living in, there is every day something traumatic and scary in the news.
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.519
And also there are beautiful things happening every day.
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:02.639
You know, like it happened, it's life isn't black and white.
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:07.519
Black or white, it's black and white, and a million shades of gray, right?
01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:16.559
My husband likes to watch the Belgian news here, one particular channel, because it's the one that has the least amount of horrible things on it.
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:21.360
I mean, it does tell you what's going on, but it always ends it on like a positive note.
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:28.639
It always shows like some beautiful part of the country or something fun that's happening, or or something that's uplifting.
01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:31.280
And so that's the reason I asked him once, why do you watch this news?
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:34.960
You know, why don't you watch the BBC or something or whatever we get over here?
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:37.199
And he says, no, this is the reason why I like to watch it.
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:39.119
Yeah, and I think that's important.
01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:45.199
And it's part of my messaging is like making sure that you're taking care of yourself so you can stay informed.
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:48.079
But that also includes how are you being informed?
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:52.159
Is it informing you or is it traumatizing you?
01:05:52.639 --> 01:05:53.039
Yeah.
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:53.679
Okay.
01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:59.840
So COVID happened, and then you actually ended up with no job afterwards.
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:01.199
Yeah.
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:04.880
It was challenging, but it was it was a blessing in disguise.
01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:08.559
Like I said at the beginning, I was like, I gotta figure this stuff out so I can get back to work.
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:14.159
Not recognizing that the situation I was in at work, I was no longer working for the island company.
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:19.199
I had moved to small business was not a super healthy work environment.
01:06:19.199 --> 01:06:24.159
The reality is I realized I'm just building somebody else's dream.
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:27.119
I'm making somebody else rich with my labor.
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:32.559
Why don't why don't I try and see if there's something I can do for myself and my family?
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:37.119
And what you just did you decide to do after you stopped working?
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:37.760
Right.
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:38.000
Yeah.
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:42.480
It just it was very, it just faded away, right?
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:45.199
I was gone on the leave, the pandemic happened.
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:48.800
I think I text my boss, like, my job's probably gone, right?
01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:49.519
Yep.
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:51.039
Okay, that's good.
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:53.679
And I did something I'd never done before.
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:54.960
I just winged it.
01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:56.639
I was a pretty good planner.
01:06:56.639 --> 01:06:59.519
Like I always had that, you know, five-year plan.
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:04.400
Not saying it ever went exactly as planned, but I at least had an idea of what I was gonna do.
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:09.039
I always knew I had been an employee for years, so I knew when my paycheck was showing up.
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:11.039
So I decided to go out on my own.
01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:13.039
And it was scary but exciting.
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:15.119
And so that's what I've been doing ever since.
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:18.800
Is that when you decided to start taking the coaching?
01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:26.079
Yeah, and yeah, when I was in that group coaching, you know, I had so many ideas.
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:33.360
But the beginning, when I first started, I I'm like, I want to start a podcast called New World Normal and talk about this idea of normal.
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:40.480
At the beginning, I was I wanted to normalize things that I wanted to see normal, or I feel like a majority of us want to see normal.
01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:47.119
But when I really started playing with the word normal, I realized, hmm, it's kind of problematic, right?
01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:52.239
Because when we think of one thing as normal, then this other thing is not normal or less than.
01:07:52.239 --> 01:07:55.039
And why can't it just be different?
01:07:55.039 --> 01:08:00.239
Like I think about uh neurotypical or neurodivergent.
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:07.119
A lot of times neurotypical is seen as normal or better, and neurodivergent is is less than.
01:08:07.119 --> 01:08:09.360
And I'm like, it's just different.
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:17.439
It's not the reason we think that neurotypical is better is because it fits into the system that we've created better.
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:22.880
But what if it's the system that's less than and not the neurodivergent person, right?
01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:30.560
So that's where I'm at now, just more questioning norms, questioning uh personal norms and systemic norms.
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:33.840
So, anyways, I had the idea for the podcast in 2020.
01:08:33.840 --> 01:08:34.880
Right.
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:38.960
But remember, I am someone that is grown up to be seen and not heard.
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:40.960
So who am I to use my voice?
01:08:40.960 --> 01:08:43.840
So that was the idea at the beginning of the program.
01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:55.279
And then through the program, now that I've given myself to be a business owner and an entrepreneur, I came up with all sorts of ideas that I chased during that 12-week period in that course.
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:56.960
I was like, Yeah, I'll do this and I'll do that.
01:08:56.960 --> 01:08:59.840
And I start setting up this business and then oh no, no, I'm gonna do this.
01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:07.920
And I start setting up this so I wasted a lot of time chasing other business ideas until I got back to the end and I'm like, no, I think I just want to do the podcast.
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:10.239
So, okay, I'm gonna do a podcast.
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:11.680
This is terrifying.
01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:12.800
How do I do this?
01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:14.159
Who am I to do this?
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:15.199
Use my voice.
01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:16.479
All the things came up.
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:17.840
I feel I don't know who
01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:19.920
I can empathize with what you're saying.
01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:21.199
I really can.
01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:26.640
I see some some similarities in my doing this podcast and what you're saying.
01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:35.600
Well, and also they say becoming an entrepreneur is the best therapy you'll ever have because you've got to work through a lot of your shit to put yourself out there.
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:44.159
The easiest way is to use social media, and so you really have to be present and perceived constantly, which is still uncomfortable for me.
01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:47.359
So, yeah, surprise, surprise, I did not start the podcast right away.
01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:48.800
I started working on it.
01:09:48.800 --> 01:10:00.800
One of the things we did early on in that program was go to the people in our lives that were closest to us that we could trust that would be honest with us and ask them, what do you think I'm good at?
01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:03.439
What are things that you would come to me for?
01:10:03.439 --> 01:10:05.199
So I did that early on.
01:10:05.199 --> 01:10:11.359
And I got things like, you're really good at looking at a problem from all directions.
01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:17.520
I go to you when I need a less biased, I'm like, I can't be non-biased, none of us can.
01:10:17.520 --> 01:10:22.880
So the the things that were my friends were saying very much led to the idea of coaching.
01:10:22.880 --> 01:10:25.520
But again, I'm like, oh, that sounds really scary.
01:10:25.520 --> 01:10:26.399
Who am I to do that?
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:28.079
So I'm like, of course, I can't do that.
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:30.560
So I had this idea to go along with the podcast.
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:33.359
I was going to do a thing called intentional apparel.
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:40.399
It was soft clothes for hard times, but it was just a clothing line that had like inspirational sayings on it and stuff.
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:44.319
But that wasn't really what I wanted to do because I didn't want to sell stuff.
01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:48.079
I tend to lean towards eco-friendly and environmental.
01:10:48.079 --> 01:10:50.079
Like there's already enough stuff.
01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:58.159
If I sell stuff, I want to make sure my shirts are produced in a factory where people are being treated kind and being paid fairly.
01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:00.479
So, like starting out, I don't know, that was a lot.
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:01.840
I couldn't, I couldn't do that.
01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:03.760
So I kept going and going.
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:11.039
And then it was a the year later in 2021, that's when the Route 91 people reached out.
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:15.039
They're like looking for volunteers to train to be a peer mentor.
01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:17.119
This is the on-site group?
01:11:17.119 --> 01:11:21.520
No, this was Route 91, the Las Vegas Resiliency Center.
01:11:21.680 --> 01:11:22.399
Yeah, okay, okay.
01:11:22.399 --> 01:11:23.119
So it's a different group.
01:11:23.359 --> 01:11:24.319
They were looking for volunteers.
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:30.079
And at the same time, I had been researching because I had come to terms with, okay, I'm gonna do this life coaching thing.
01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:36.239
So I had been researching schools or organizations to train with, and I had just finally selected one.
01:11:36.239 --> 01:11:37.680
Oh, what do you know?
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:41.439
It starts around the same time as this resiliency center training.
01:11:41.439 --> 01:11:54.319
So I'm doing these concurrently, and then also the resiliency center is saying, we have an opportunity for Route 91 survivors to go to On-Site, which is a therapeutic center.
01:11:54.319 --> 01:11:56.000
At the time they were just in Tennessee.
01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.640
Now they have a campus in California as well.
01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:05.520
But they do lots of different therapeutic programs, but they had one designed specifically for mass shooting survivors.
01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:11.600
I believe it was a relative of one of the Columbine survivors who ended up committing suicide.
01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:20.399
It's not uncommon for people to take the trauma from the shooting, you know, survive the shooting, but then that trauma ends up getting them in the end because they take their own lives.
01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:26.560
So I think it was her brother who inspired her to start this program with On-Site.
01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:29.600
And it was a 100% scholarship.
01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:34.319
And again, those messages of who are you to take up this space?
01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:36.319
Your experience wasn't that bad.
01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:37.680
You didn't get shot.
01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:39.359
None of your friends got shot.
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:40.159
Who are you?
01:12:40.159 --> 01:12:42.800
Luckily, I'd been in a lot more therapy since then.
01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:43.920
So I was like, you know what?
01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:46.720
I'm just gonna fill out the application and see what happens.
01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:48.079
And I was accepted.
01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:54.560
And I got to go spend four days in Tennessee doing group therapy, which I'd never done.
01:12:54.560 --> 01:13:01.039
And it was hands down one of the best experiences, most impactful experiences of my life.
01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:04.000
And it just contributed to the training I was already getting, right?
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:07.119
I'm in life coaching school and training to be a peer mentor.
01:13:07.119 --> 01:13:20.640
So that period of my life was pretty intense therapeutically and learning about myself and the idea of helping other people and how to do that safely, but also brings up a lot of your stuff.
01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:24.399
So it's not like I'm going to hang my shingle immediately.
01:13:24.399 --> 01:13:27.600
I thought I was, but no, you're not ready.
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:30.479
You need to process all this stuff you've just gone through.
01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:33.680
Mind you, I did start the podcast around that time.
01:13:33.680 --> 01:13:35.840
So I was putting out podcast episodes.
01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:37.680
So I'd started to get a little braver.
01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:42.640
But then, yeah, I didn't actually start really coaching coaching until 22.
01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:46.159
And then I did my first group coaching program in 23.
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:49.600
And then life has just been lifing since then.
01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:54.000
And um, I'm anxious to get back to that group program because I think it's pretty cool.
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:56.880
Go back to the on-site program.
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:58.640
It was four days in Tennessee.
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:00.560
You said there were group therapy.
01:14:00.560 --> 01:14:02.479
So, how did you feel during that time?
01:14:02.479 --> 01:14:06.159
And what were some of the key findings that you determined after that?
01:14:06.159 --> 01:14:09.680
I mean, I'm sure that there were some pretty eye-opening things that came out of that.
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:18.560
Well, yeah, one of the biggest ones is we were all this particular cohort of this program, program was called Triumph Over Tragedy.
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:20.560
We were all Route 91 survivors.
01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:24.560
So we were all pretty bonded right from the get-go, which was nice.
01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:38.319
The one thing I noticed was that even though we were all there for the same reason, what we were all working on, and I can only speak for my group, and uh, but I think it was true for most of the groups, nobody was working on the trauma of the shooting.
01:14:38.319 --> 01:14:42.159
Everybody was working on all the stuff that they had before the shooting.
01:14:42.159 --> 01:14:56.640
Because when we walked into that festival, we all had our baggage, like the shit we'd been carrying from our childhood, our abusive or questionable relationships, our lived experience, which isn't always rainbows and sunshine, right?
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:59.119
We all had something that we brought in with us.
01:14:59.119 --> 01:15:04.159
And when we left with the added trauma of the shooting, all that other stuff wasn't gone.
01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:08.880
It was still there, which is a little bit what I experienced when I met with the PTSD specialist, right?
01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:12.560
I I got that there's other stuff in my life that I obviously need to deal with.
01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:16.800
So it was interesting seeing that everybody was working on their own stuff.
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:18.960
It wasn't it wasn't about the shooting at all.
01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:23.279
We talked in group one time about the shooting, maybe about a half hour.
01:15:23.279 --> 01:15:25.920
And then the rest we were we were processing other stuff.
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:26.960
That's interesting.
01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:34.079
I mean, I can think to my own experience when I in my early 20s, I went to a psychologist, and I won't get into the details of why I did that.
01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:38.800
But I went into it thinking, okay, this is the reason that I'm going in here.
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:49.520
And then I remember I was, I don't know, it was maybe three months later coming out and thinking, whoa, I didn't realize that I had all this stuff going on with my mother.
01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:51.279
And that's what came out of it.
01:15:51.279 --> 01:15:55.439
I the reason I went in there had absolutely nothing to do with my mother.
01:15:55.439 --> 01:16:00.960
But the main realization that I came out with was some of the things that my mother was doing.
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:02.720
And she wasn't a bad person or anything.
01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:05.039
She was doing it, you know, unwittingly.
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:07.840
And it was causing so much grief in my life.
01:16:07.840 --> 01:16:12.399
So it's we think it's one thing, then come to find out it's it's something else.
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:18.880
But it's one small like tangent that pokes another place and makes it sensitive.
01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:27.439
It's really interesting how all these things are so intricately woven in our lives and how they affect each other without us even realizing it.
01:16:27.439 --> 01:16:29.359
It's always amazing to find that.
01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:35.680
And how that emotional is also affecting the physical, like it's all so intricate and complex.
01:16:36.079 --> 01:16:45.600
Yeah, I was uh I did a recording recently with somebody who um she had grown up in at a time when the Czech Republic was becoming the Czech Republic.
01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:52.880
And um, of course, she had been through all that kind of unrest and there was a lot of stuff going on, unrest in the country.
01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:56.960
And she said when September 11th happened, it brought up all this other trauma in her.
01:16:56.960 --> 01:17:10.960
And oh my god, I had to stop the recording because I was living in Reston, Virginia, which is not far from DC when September 11th happened, and it brought up that without me even realizing it.
01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:12.560
And it's all these years later.
01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:16.560
I mean, and I always say, oh, you know, oh, there's a plane flying over low.
01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:24.479
And I realized at that point that I still, when a plane flies low over me, I sit and I think, why is that plane so low?
01:17:24.479 --> 01:17:25.600
What what's going on?
01:17:25.600 --> 01:17:28.000
Years and years ago, I was really surprised.
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:31.760
I mean, I was literally crying - I had to stop the podcast.
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:33.439
Yeah, no, it's in there.
01:17:33.439 --> 01:17:34.159
It's in there.
01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:38.239
Like I had the experience the other day because I recognized we were getting close.
01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:41.600
At the time I didn't recognize, I wasn't thinking about the anniversary date.
01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:43.199
But there were um sirens.
01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:51.279
And I'm usually okay with sirens if they go one way, but when they start doing the back and forth, because that's what I heard that night, was the back and the forth, and the helicopters.
01:17:51.279 --> 01:17:57.600
So if you get a helicopter and a siren, and I will start to feel myself, you know, start to rise up.
01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:03.760
I had that experience at work the other day because the ambulances were going back and forth because it was a busy day and it was I live on I work on a busy corner.
01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:08.000
So yeah, it's in there and it comes out whether we're ready for it or not.
01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:22.239
And that's why when you said, you know, you wanted to be careful about when you what what you were talking about what happened in in the shooting, that I was very conscious of that because I was very conscious of what came up in myself at that time when somebody else was talking about something.
01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:23.039
All right.
01:18:23.039 --> 01:18:27.920
Let's go into the fact that you continue to have some health issues.
01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:36.159
You had a torn retina, and that you've had some issues with your eyes all the way up until the time we were supposed to do the first podcast, the originally scheduled podcast.
01:18:36.479 --> 01:18:42.159
My eyes have just been an issue this year, but I did um I started having issues, autoimmune issues.
01:18:42.159 --> 01:18:44.720
I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in 2021.
01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:50.720
Finally, because I was having all these weird symptoms, and of course the doctor's like, you're fine, everything's fine, all of your labs look great.
01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:52.720
I'm like, no, there is something wrong.
01:18:52.720 --> 01:18:54.720
And that's thyroid, right?
01:18:54.720 --> 01:18:59.840
Yes, it can be, but because my thyroid was functioning fine, right?
01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:04.880
My panels were fine, I pushed her to test me for Hashimoto's because I had had a functional doctor.
01:19:04.880 --> 01:19:12.960
Because when I first went out on medical leave, I was curious, like, is there something physically wrong with me, or am I just, you know, is it just mental and emotional?
01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:19.039
And so I went to this functional medicine doctor and she's like, Well, you're borderline Hashimoto's, which I don't know how you can be borderline.
01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:20.720
I didn't know enough about it at the time.
01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:25.439
I was having weird joint pain issues, and I'm like, Can you just test me for Hashimoto's?
01:19:25.439 --> 01:19:27.920
And she's like, You don't have Hashimoto's, but okay, I'll test you.
01:19:27.920 --> 01:19:34.800
She humored me, thank goodness, because I did have the antibody, the TPO is the marker for that.
01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:36.880
But my thyroid was functioning.
01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:42.960
So her message to me was, well, your thyroid's working fine, and there's really nothing we can do until that stops working right.
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:48.640
So it was basically go home and get sicker, and then when your thyroid stops working, we'll medicate you.
01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:51.840
And I'm like, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna do that.
01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:53.279
I'm gonna figure something else out.
01:19:53.279 --> 01:19:59.840
So that was another rabbit hole of, you know, in my son's diagnosis, I was all into neurology and nutrition.
01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:04.560
And then, of course, autoimmune, there's a lot of overlap with lifestyle and nutrition.
01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:08.560
So I put myself on a strict anti-inflammatory diet.
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:14.960
I was trying to walk, I was learning how to regulate my nervous system, which went along with all the other work I was doing.
01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:20.479
And so I still have Hashimoto's, but all my symptoms are gone for now.
01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:22.560
Good, excellent.
01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:23.119
Good job.
01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:24.159
Yes, yay.
01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:24.800
All right.
01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:26.239
Are you now coaching?
01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:27.520
I do coach.
01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:32.239
I have a few people in my membership that I've been working with for years.
01:20:32.239 --> 01:20:36.640
But what happened in 2023, I'd been working on this group coaching program.
01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:38.960
I really like the idea of a group coaching program.
01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:42.880
Number one, you're doing work in community, which I feel is very important.
01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:46.319
Number two, you can do it in a way that's more accessible.
01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:50.880
Like all those years, I didn't have access to coaching or therapy because I didn't have the money.
01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:55.279
And I know that currently economic times are tough for a lot of people.
01:20:55.279 --> 01:21:00.159
And I would like to be able to work in a way that supports me, but also keeps my work accessible.
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:02.079
So I really want to do group coaching.
01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:04.079
So I did, I created a program.
01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:07.039
I ran it in fall of 2023.
01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:07.840
It was great.
01:21:07.840 --> 01:21:10.319
The people that went through it got had a good experience.
01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:11.680
I learned a lot.
01:21:11.680 --> 01:21:18.720
I had all these plans for how I was going to improve it and relaunch it in early 2024.
01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:21.600
Well, life had other plans for me in 2024.
01:21:21.600 --> 01:21:26.560
I got an eviction notice from my landlord.
01:21:26.560 --> 01:21:31.600
In itself, doesn't sound like, yes, that is horrible but manageable, right?
01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:32.560
I just have to move.
01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:39.279
Well, mind you, I don't really have a reliable income source that I can put on paper for a future landlord.
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:44.479
And I live in a resort town where there are next to none year-round housing.
01:21:44.479 --> 01:21:50.800
So it took me six months to find a place and then another six months to probably settle in and process.
01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:52.720
So 2024 was a wash.
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:55.039
2025, that's the year.
01:21:55.039 --> 01:21:55.920
I'm gonna do it.
01:21:55.920 --> 01:21:57.600
And you lost your dog as well.
01:21:57.600 --> 01:21:58.159
Yes.
01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:03.760
Then 2025 ended up having to say goodbye to my dog, which was much harder.
01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:05.840
Now you're gonna make me to cry.
01:22:05.840 --> 01:22:08.159
That was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.
01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:14.800
I had that happen, and then literally four days later, I say I broke my eye from all the crying.
01:22:14.800 --> 01:22:18.000
I ended up losing vision in my left eye, went to the hospital.
01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:19.039
They're like, we can't tell.
01:22:19.039 --> 01:22:20.239
They flew me over town.
01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:25.920
And he's like, Yeah, it's torn and your retina's torn in a few places, but we'll just treat it with laser and you'll be fine.
01:22:25.920 --> 01:22:27.119
Or you should be fine.
01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:28.720
Well, that was torture.
01:22:28.720 --> 01:22:30.800
Laser in the eyeball was not fun.
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:32.319
They thought they fixed it.
01:22:32.319 --> 01:22:33.760
I it didn't fix.
01:22:33.760 --> 01:22:39.439
So it started at the beginning of June and just it was mid-August that it finally detached.
01:22:39.439 --> 01:22:42.000
So I had to get emergency eye surgery.
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:49.920
And I am what, nine weeks post eight weeks post-surgery right now, and still have a gas bubble in my eye.
01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:53.920
Needless to say, I had been focused on myself and healing this year.
01:22:53.920 --> 01:22:56.319
So I did not do any group coaching program.
01:22:56.319 --> 01:23:00.319
And I actually just came to the realization, because I kept thinking, I'll just do it in the fall.
01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:01.199
I'll just do it in the fall.
01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:05.680
I'm like, Debbie, you don't have the bandwidth to lead a group right now.
01:23:05.680 --> 01:23:08.079
At least not at the level I want to do it.
01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:09.840
And I'm like, but I've got to do something.
01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:16.800
Like I've got, not just for myself financially, but I feel like we're at a pretty crazy time in history.
01:23:16.800 --> 01:23:25.840
And I feel like one way I can show up and help is through my work, helping people learn how to reconnect to themselves, learn how to regulate their nervous system.
01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:27.840
Because the world is batshit crazy.
01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:38.000
I'm gonna do a mini like boot camp program called Resilience in a bat shit crazy world to try and help people learn how they can take care of themselves and remain engaged and informed.
01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:40.000
And that's in person or online?
01:23:40.319 --> 01:23:41.199
It'll be online.
01:23:41.199 --> 01:23:48.720
And I want to do it in a boot camp format because I didn't want to do a long drawn-out thing because I think people need the information like now.
01:23:48.720 --> 01:23:51.199
I think it needs to be learned quickly.
01:23:51.199 --> 01:23:56.479
And so what's a format I can deliver quickly and effectively and impactfully?
01:23:56.479 --> 01:24:00.560
I wanted to help people, not just doing this to make a few bucks.
01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:06.000
So I've come up with a pretty cool bootcamp format that I'm hopeful hoping other people like.
01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:07.199
I'm pretty excited about it.
01:24:07.199 --> 01:24:10.399
And then I'll be more in a better mind, right?
01:24:10.399 --> 01:24:15.359
Because I'll be working on my own resilience alongside of all my clients for the rest of the year.
01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:18.880
And then next year I'm gonna relaunch my group coaching program.
01:24:19.359 --> 01:24:20.880
So you don't do one-on-one?
01:24:20.880 --> 01:24:22.000
You don't take individuals.
01:24:22.399 --> 01:24:29.359
I will, but I haven't because how much I'd have to charge somebody, like I'm not comfortable in that space right now.
01:24:29.359 --> 01:24:32.960
And I haven't had the energy to market myself in that way.
01:24:32.960 --> 01:24:38.000
I have it up on my website if someone were to click it, but you know, I'm not sending anybody there.
01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:40.319
I'm sending more people to my free community.
01:24:40.319 --> 01:24:49.119
Like I'm doing a lot of free stuff right now because I feel like people need places to connect and recognize that there's a lot of good people in the world that want to do good things.
01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:58.239
And I'm getting started on my podcast again, because I think that's a lot of it too, like hearing other people's stories about how they're doing work to try and help the collective.
01:24:58.239 --> 01:25:01.119
And yeah, we do a book club, which is all online.
01:25:01.119 --> 01:25:03.840
I want to get back to hosting other people.
01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:14.159
Like I'll do workshops in my free community, but also I host other people, whether it's something about personal development or some creative outlet or self-awareness building.
01:25:14.159 --> 01:25:17.680
I always say it's like self-help at the intersection of social issues.
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:19.199
It sounds interesting.
01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:22.239
It sounds very collaborative as well.
01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:25.520
Well, and I think a lot of it is taken separately.
01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:29.039
Like you need to work on yourself, but you can do all the work on yourself.
01:25:29.039 --> 01:25:33.600
But if the system you're living in is broken, it's not going to be super effective.
01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:42.800
If somebody were to contact you and be in one of these groups, what is the kind of coaching that somebody would be looking for in this type of group setting?
01:25:42.800 --> 01:25:45.840
What is it that you're offering exactly the type of coaching?
01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:54.960
My coaching and my my program and where I like to help people is questioning all those norms in their life, all the shoulds and the have-to's.
01:25:54.960 --> 01:26:06.399
I'm really big on helping people align goals with their actual values because I find a lot of times people have these ideas of what kind of life they want to live or what kind of world they want to live in.
01:26:06.399 --> 01:26:13.439
But the things they're doing every day are completely disconnected from those doing this every day, but you want to go that way.
01:26:13.439 --> 01:26:17.439
Like maybe if we try and do things that kind of point more that direction.
01:26:17.439 --> 01:26:30.079
Or you have people that have ideas of wanting to live in a greener, more eco-friendly world, and yet they're doing things on autopilot, like grabbing the case of water bottles at the grocery store every week.
01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:36.000
It's like, well, why are you buying all that plastic and putting more plastic in the world if you claim to care about the environment?
01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:39.520
Decide, do you care about the environment or really is that just not that important to you?
01:26:39.840 --> 01:26:40.960
It sounds very practical.
01:26:41.279 --> 01:26:45.600
I'd like to keep it practical, accessible, things you can actually implement in your life.
01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:53.119
I'm really big on self-care practices or rituals that are as small as possible so that you could actually do them.
01:26:53.439 --> 01:26:57.520
Can you share something like that that somebody who's listening might be able to try out?
01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:04.560
Yeah, it's funny because I had thought about sharing another thing, but I feel like the small bite size, they're like little mini meditations.
01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:08.159
And I want to say I first got introduced to these ideas.
01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:09.600
Gosh, what is the name of the book?
01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:13.680
Something (Positive) intelligence, not emotional intelligence, practical intelligence.
01:27:13.680 --> 01:27:16.319
I think the author's name is Shirzad (Shirzad Chamine) something.
01:27:16.319 --> 01:27:19.840
He has these little mini meditations that are based on the senses.
01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:25.439
And so you can do it anywhere just to bring you back to center and uh a little more grounded.
01:27:25.439 --> 01:27:30.800
So, like you can do it where you're rubbing your fingers and you're just focusing on that sensation.
01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:32.960
So you can literally do that anywhere.
01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:39.600
I often couple it with the bilateral stimulation because right when you're moving bilaterally, people do like this.
01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:42.640
That's a very calming thing to do, but it's also it looks strange, right?
01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:44.159
You're out in public doing this.
01:27:44.159 --> 01:27:48.079
But if you're rubbing your legs at a meeting on Zoom, you can rub your legs.
01:27:48.079 --> 01:27:53.039
You can rub the seam of your pants and focus on that sensation.
01:27:53.039 --> 01:28:00.640
He teaches it as a form of when you're in the negative self talk spiral to bring you back to like, okay, that's Not helpful.
01:28:00.640 --> 01:28:03.119
Let's get back to what I really need to be focused on.
01:28:03.119 --> 01:28:08.720
Another one he talks, so hearing would be, okay, I'm going to listen to something really close to me.
01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:12.239
I have ear earbuds in right now, so obviously I'm listening to you.
01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:18.800
But if I didn't have them in, I can listen to you, and then I can be like, I'm going to focus on the most distant sound I can hear.
01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:20.239
It's easier when you're outdoors, right?
01:28:20.239 --> 01:28:27.199
Because you can hear something far away, or like you can isolate a sound, like, oh, I can hear that one bird in that tree and focus on that sound.
01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:31.279
You can do the same thing with distance, which is a good uh eye exercise, right?
01:28:31.279 --> 01:28:32.560
I'm looking at the computer.
01:28:32.560 --> 01:28:34.560
I'm looking at something far away.
01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:41.119
But it's just ways to bring you back to the present moment and regulate if you're feeling a little anxious.
01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:45.520
And it's really in easy to incorporate into anything you're doing.
01:28:45.520 --> 01:28:48.079
Like so many people here are like, I don't have time to meditate.
01:28:48.079 --> 01:28:49.439
What do you mean meditate?
01:28:49.439 --> 01:28:50.640
I don't have time for that.
01:28:50.640 --> 01:28:52.800
But you do have time for some a practice like that.
01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:53.840
Like you can do it anytime.
01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:56.239
You can do it while you're standing in line at the grocery store.
01:28:56.239 --> 01:28:59.600
You can, you know, do it at a work meeting.
01:28:59.600 --> 01:29:00.880
No one's gonna know.
01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:06.800
That's mainly to sort of help calm you down if you're in a moment of anxiety or stress.
01:29:07.199 --> 01:29:16.239
I think anxiety and stress, like I said, he teaches it for the the negative mental self-talk, which I know I struggled with, still struggle with.
01:29:16.239 --> 01:29:17.920
So I use it at times like that.
01:29:17.920 --> 01:29:23.760
Anytime you feel like you're anxious, spiraling is a another way people dis describe it.
01:29:23.760 --> 01:29:25.840
Although I think spiraling gets bad rap.
01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:28.960
Like I think we are all spiraling all the time, and that's okay.
01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:30.239
Life is cyclical.
01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:35.039
We're all spinning, but we're expanding and we're growing in that spiral.
01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:36.640
So all right.
01:29:36.640 --> 01:29:47.680
So given everything that's happened to you and everything that you've discovered about yourself, all of these realizations that you have had, and also the coaching that you've gone through, gone through, excuse me.
01:29:47.680 --> 01:30:00.880
Can you just leave listeners with some advice that you feel is probably the most pertinent in this crazy world, as you call it, that we are in all experiencing now?
01:30:01.279 --> 01:30:03.840
Well, it uh you always pops up when people want advice.
01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:07.760
It's like my favorite advice is from Dory on finding Nemo.
01:30:07.760 --> 01:30:09.439
Just keep swimming.
01:30:09.439 --> 01:30:15.439
But I would also offer because we are seem to be in a I don't know if it's unique.
01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:18.399
People say these kind of things happen all the time throughout history.
01:30:18.399 --> 01:30:25.680
It just feels extra, is to figure out how to take care of yourself so you can stay in the game.
01:30:25.680 --> 01:30:29.119
I'm not the coach that's going to tell you, just ignore the news.
01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:30.479
It's too stressful.
01:30:30.479 --> 01:30:44.079
I'm going to say, yes, take breaks, find sources that don't traumatize you, but also learn how to take care of yourself so you can stay informed and engaged because we're all in this together, right?
01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:45.119
The entire planet.
01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:48.960
We all need to stay in it in order to build something better.
01:30:49.039 --> 01:30:51.760
So Yeah, escapeeism isn't working.
01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:56.960
No, we can't all fly off to a tropical destination because then the problem's just gonna come with us.
01:30:57.359 --> 01:31:00.640
If anybody wants to connect with you, how can they do that?
01:31:00.960 --> 01:31:11.439
So I've been hanging out on Instagram a little bit more, actually spruced up my LinkedIn profile, been trying to show up there more because it seems like there's more real people on LinkedIn.
01:31:11.439 --> 01:31:17.199
And then my podcast new episodes are gonna start, but there's 45 previous episodes.
01:31:17.199 --> 01:31:21.199
People can start listening to those and get an idea of what I'm up to.
01:31:21.199 --> 01:31:24.640
Yeah, or join my community, the free community on Facebook.
01:31:24.640 --> 01:31:26.079
It's on Facebook for now.
01:31:26.079 --> 01:31:28.079
It will find a better home at some point.
01:31:28.079 --> 01:31:30.880
We're getting ready to start up our book club again.
01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:33.199
So, what is the name of the group on Facebook?
01:31:33.439 --> 01:31:35.760
It's the question normal community.
01:31:36.079 --> 01:31:37.199
And the name of your podcast.
01:31:37.439 --> 01:31:38.479
New World Normal.
01:31:38.720 --> 01:31:39.039
Okay.
01:31:39.039 --> 01:31:44.319
So I will put the links in the show notes here so people can connect with you.
01:31:44.640 --> 01:31:47.520
So any final closing words that you have?
01:31:47.920 --> 01:31:48.960
No, this was great.
01:31:48.960 --> 01:31:52.079
I probably shared more than I have on any other podcast.
01:31:52.079 --> 01:31:53.680
So it feels a little uncomfortable.
01:31:53.680 --> 01:31:56.000
It might be a little sweaty, but it was fun.
01:31:56.399 --> 01:31:58.079
You've been rubbing your thighs the whole time.
01:31:58.720 --> 01:32:02.399
Anything comes up, I have my therapy appointment next week, so we're good.
01:32:02.720 --> 01:32:03.199
All right.
01:32:03.199 --> 01:32:07.039
Well, it's been fun and it's been interesting.
01:32:07.039 --> 01:32:12.000
And thank you for sharing some things that I'm sure were a bit difficult to share as well.
01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:13.439
So thank you for that.
01:32:13.840 --> 01:32:15.119
Thanks for what you do.
01:32:15.119 --> 01:32:17.760
I love the idea of Wisdom Without The Guru.
01:32:17.760 --> 01:32:19.359
Because we all have wisdom.
01:32:19.359 --> 01:32:20.000
We all.
01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:23.520
Yeah, that's how I really, really feel that we all have it.
01:32:23.520 --> 01:32:35.520
And I'll just share one thing before we close that there's this old idea of bartering, you know, or you sort of, you know, you provide a meal for somebody and then they provide a service for you.
01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:43.760
And I always sort of try to encourage that with people because it's this type of sharing that you can give to people.
01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.239
And people always think, oh, well, I have nothing to share.
01:32:46.239 --> 01:32:47.359
I have nothing to share.
01:32:47.359 --> 01:32:59.199
And I think, well, you've got your own inner inner wisdom from your own experience to share, whether or not somebody else, you know, accepts it or not, or is resonating with it doesn't matter.
01:32:59.199 --> 01:33:01.279
But everybody has that.
01:33:01.279 --> 01:33:04.159
I mean, even a five-year-old has that.
01:33:04.720 --> 01:33:08.720
They've got some kind of wisdom, lived up to that five years of age.
01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:16.319
Well, and the important part about sharing the stories is we recognize, like, oh, like that happened to me, or I felt like that once upon a time.
01:33:16.319 --> 01:33:24.720
Or, you know, we we recognize each other in other people's stories, and that brings us together and helps us remember that we're all in this together.
01:33:25.119 --> 01:33:25.760
Definitely.
01:33:25.760 --> 01:33:26.479
Definitely.
01:33:26.479 --> 01:33:28.239
Well, thank you for being a guest.
01:33:28.239 --> 01:33:38.159
I'm not sure what you're doing for the anniversary of the shooting, but I hope that you will keep yourself in a good state of mind.
01:33:38.560 --> 01:33:39.600
I will do my best.
01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:41.520
I'll have something planned to.
01:33:42.159 --> 01:33:42.640
All right.
01:33:42.640 --> 01:33:45.600
Listeners, thank you for tuning in.
01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:51.279
And I know it's been a lengthy one, but I think that you have probably picked up on a lot of things.
01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:55.439
But I think that'll be it for now because it's time for my dinner
01:33:55.439 --> 01:33:56.239
and my breakfast.
01:33:56.479 --> 01:33:57.600
Oh, yeah, that's right.
01:33:57.600 --> 01:33:59.199
Totally different sides of the world.
01:33:59.199 --> 01:34:07.039
Anyway, so wherever you are in this beautiful world, I wish you a wonderful day, night, midday, whatever it is for you.
01:34:07.039 --> 01:34:09.439
And until the next time, bye, everybody.