Interview with school shooting survivor Missy Jenkins-Smith Part 2

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Welcome to Unforbidden Truth. I'm Andrew. This is part two
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of my interview with school shooting survivor Missy Jenkins Smith. So,
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going back to December two of nineteen ninety seven up
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until present time, how has this experience of the shooting
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affected your daily life since back then versus now? Have
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you made any improvements since then?
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There's no, there's not been any improvements to mark paralysis now, unfortunately.
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But what they had to do afterwards is that they
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had I spent about five months in the hospital at
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the time. I had to spend time recovering over my lung,
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the injury to my lung, and so when I'm finally
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moved to a rehabilitation floor, I can't remember exactly when
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that was. I just know that I left that hospital
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in Paducah at the beginning of February. The following February
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and was moved to a hospital called Cardinal Hill, which
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was more focused on spinal cord injuries. I was whenever
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I was a the on the rehab floor in the
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hospital in paduca it was me and a bunch of
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elderly people with strokes, so it was like it wasn't
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centered with just helping me with my spinal cord injury.
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So after learning some of the basics at the hospital,
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I learned how to dress myself in the hospital in Paduca,
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which took me forty five minutes. The first time to
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dress myself, I had to learn how to and I
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was just putting on sweatpants, by the way. It wasn't
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anything else that was a challenging. The most challenging thing
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I've ever put on is pantyhose. That was like, it's
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like because you've got to, you know, deal with legs
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that are not that are working against you. But I
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also had to learn how to, you know, uh, turn
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my body and use my arms more than anyone wouldn't
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use their arms normally because I don't have my stomach
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muscles because of my injury being so high. I just
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have my arms, so I have to use that as
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a way to pull my body back up or to
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move myself. So I had to build up strengthen my arms,
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and that was something that was that took some time.
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Learning how to use a wheelchair was embarrassing because because
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I didn't realize how, I didn't really know how to
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use one. I got into it and I didn't really
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even know how to turn. I knocked into the wall.
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I was doing an interview with Dayline and walked into
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the wall while I was doing the interview, and I
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was glad they didn't put that on there. But but
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I was not good at it. But I learned some
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of those basics. Balance also, like sitting on the edge
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of the bed and trying to balance your body. Because
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I didn't have that poor stomach balance. I'd use my
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head to balance and so on. Said learn those little
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basic things. Then they moved me to Cardinal Hill and Lexington,
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and so that was hard. I had to leave Paduca.
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My family picked up and left with me. They had
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to get an apartment and rented and stayed there. Was
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my mom, dad, my twin sister, and my older sister
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went as well. She had actually had just moved from
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Lexington because she had left college, and she it was
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kind of a good thing she did leave college because
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after that she kind of really helped me, kind of
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really become like my caretaker in a way. She sought
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her life to take care of me because my mom
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at that point was also going through physical health issues.
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She had arthritis, osteocorosis, all those kind of things, right,
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and she was actually had just gotten to the point
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where she had to use a wheelchair a lot, and
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so she couldn't take care of me like I would need.
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So my older sister stepped up and did that, so
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she went with us as well. And so I was
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there learning how to do of like transfers on and
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off the bed, in and out of my out of
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the bathroom, like into the shower, those kind of things,
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every day things until the first week in April. And
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then I finally got to go home, and I think
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I it was daring spring break at that time, so
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I got to have a week home with my family.
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But it was really hard in the beginning whenever the
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shooting happened, because I remember on December the sixteenth, every
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victim that was in the hospital had gotten out. The
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last one who was Shelley with the hand injury, she
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got to leave, and I remember crying and wanting to
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go home too, but I knew that I couldn't. I
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knew that I was gonna have to be there so
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much longer. But when I eventually got out of the
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hospital getting back to my home, I didn't realize how
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small it was either you know, it was a small house,
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was three bedroom, living room, kitchen, one bathroom, and a
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laundry room, and so that was a different It was
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difficult trying to maneuver around that. We also had a
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ramp that had to be built in front of the house.
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So thank goodness, the people of Paducah donated that and
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also eventually donated a wheelchair successful edition onto my home.
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So they built an addition onto the back of my
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our house that had a large living room kitchen that
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was accessible for me to use. There was another area
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where we were able to put a dining table, and
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then I had a pole table area where I could
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do that. And then I had my bedroom that was
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wilteruccessful with the closet that I could get to, and
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the bathroom was accessible for me as well with a
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rolling shower and I could roll under the scene. And
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they also caused me and my twin sister had shared
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a room together our entire lives, and even though we
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were getting this extra room, excuse me, even though we
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were getting this extra room, I still wanted to take
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her with me because it just wasn't fair for me
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to have this large, nice room and her be back
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in the old little room that we had. So they
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built it where she had her own sink and I
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had my own, so it was very it was accessible
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to her as well, and so so I that was finished,
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I guess my junior year in high school. So I
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had that, and so things were good. I felt like
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I had a lot of help from the community and
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from people all over the world. That made things so
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much easier for me, and I'm so blessed for that.
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I remember when I was in the hospital and I
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was upset and spared that I was going to be
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alone and that people were going to forget me once
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the you know, everybody was going back to their regular
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lives and whatever. You know, I felt like no one
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was going to remember that I was still, you know,
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trying to live my life and it was still affecting me.
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But I got letters from people all over the world,
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people that I didn't know that took their time out
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to write to me, and that meant so much to
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me and made me realize that they took the time
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out for that, why can't I effort on myself and
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live my life. So that helped a lot. I even
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had letters from foreign countries from people that could barely
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say anything in English, but I could decipher you know,
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I'm praying for you, those kind of things. So and
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then after that, after getting back to home and then
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having to go back to school where I was different,
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that was also another concern. So I was like, great,
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you know, like I'm going to the school there was
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a lot of bullying and here I am different than everybody.
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This is going to be hard, you know. And also
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how are people going to treat me now versus when
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they treated me before? And so I also questioned my
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abilities and what I could do because I had a
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twin sister who was able to walk and go do
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these things that I wanted to do as well. And
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thank goodness that I had wonderful friends and then a
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sister who really cared about me, who made sure that
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if it was something that was going to be hard
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to do, that they did it. If it was something
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on the football field, I was drug out there in
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a field by my friends. If it was we went
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to a Halloween party and it was upstairs a spiral staircase,
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they got me a spiral staircase in my wheelchair. I mean, like,
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I never felt like there was an obstacle, and I
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was blessed for that. I also went to a camp.
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I was invited to a camp where with other people
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with spintal corn injuries, where I learned how to water ski,
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jet ski, ride a horse, climb a tree. I honestly
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felt at that point that I'd done more in a
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wheelchair than I'd ever done walking, So I was blessed
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for that. And then later on I ended up my
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senior year going to Los Angeles and learning how to
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use a brace that allowed me to walk across the
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stage for graduation, and I was able to use it
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to stand up at my senior prom, which was so
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much better than my junior prom because at the time,
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at my date he was like in the floor, he
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was on my lap. I honestly didn't know what to
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do with him, because when you're in a wheelchair and dancing,
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I mean, that's that's difficult. But I was able to
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stand up and dance with my date, and then I
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used it, like I said, across the stage for graduation.
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In the month of March my senior year, I went
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back to the hospital. I actually spent from August to
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November learning how to use the brace. Living in Los Angeles,
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which I was totally fine with because that was LA
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my senior year, and so I kind of did like
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a like a called what most people had to do
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in COVID whenever you know, to learn how to Like
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with school, it was kind of the similar thing, but
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as best as we could do in ninety nine and
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two thousands, it was mostly emailed assignment. So I still
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went to heath that way, and so during March I
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got to go learn more advanced skills with it, but
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also walked a quarter of a mile in the Los
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Angeles Marathon. And then I used the brace later on
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to stand up and save my vows to my husband
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at our wedding. So lots of things like that I
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was very blessed with. I had. Me and my husband
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got married June twenty fourth of two thousand and six,
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so we just had our eighteenth anniversary. We have two children.
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Our oldest is Logan, who is sixteen, and he was
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born September the third of seven, and he was he
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was actually born on Labor Day, so I got to
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go and labor on Labor Day and so and then
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my second he's fourteen and his name is Carter, and
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he was born in April the thirteenth of twenty ten,
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and so I have two boys, and now that they're older,
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the fresh frustrating part that now that I'm older, they're older,
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I am going through a lot of physical health issues
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now because of my arms. I had to leave my
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full time job as a counselor that I worked at
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at a school. And that counseling job I loved. I
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thought I was going to be there until I had
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to retire. But because of the overuse of my arms,
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I wasn't able to do the every day thing that
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I would have to do there would be required that job,
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or some days when I wake up my body doesn't
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want to work with me. And so I had a
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torn tendon in my right shoulder. That was the first
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injury I had in twenty seventeen. I ended up leaving
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the job in June of twenty nineteen, right before all
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the COVID st have happened. But after that I ended
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up having a torn rotator paft in my left shoulder.
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I never was able to fix the torn tendon because
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every doctor I would see told me there was nothing
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they could do for me because of the overuse of
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my shoulders. I still live with that injury, the rotator cuff.
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I didn't even go see about for a year because
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I thought I was going to get told the same thing.
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And when that injury happened, I couldn't do anything. My
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husband had to dress me, help me set up like
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I couldn't do anything, and it was it was terrible.
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It was very, very like. It was depressing. And then
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I start my hands. I started running into like issues
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with car severe carpal tunnel. I have that. And then
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I also have a dying bone in my right wrist
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and it is the most painful thing, the most painful
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thing that there's nothing that can be done for it
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because it would require surgery to have a bone removed,
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and then they would have to fuse my wrist and
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I have to use that. So there's been a lot
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of challenges now that I've gotten older. And I thought
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that I would be old and gray when I started
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having these problems. But it makes sense. After twenty six
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years of using your arms, your arms are not made
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to do that. And so I'm running these problems. But
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I'm okay. You know, I've learned that I have to
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deal with the frustration and the stress of it, and
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I have to let that out. I can't keep it inside.
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But I also have to remind myself with the positives
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that are in my life, and that's how I get
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through it. And I wrote a book called I Choose
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to Be Happy, and it is a choice. I have
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to make that choice every day because I still have
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my kids, who you know, keep me going and that
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I love and that I don't want that. I want
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to live life for you know, and not just stay
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in a bed for the rest of my life. And
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there were times, there was times in the past where
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I was just like you know, whenever I was fifteen
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and learning how to dress myself again, and all of
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it was hard and I didn't want to do it.
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I was ready to live my life in the bed
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because it was too hard. And so I remember pushing
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through it then, and I knew, even though I was
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like forty at this point with all these problems, I
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could push through it. Now it was going to be
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a little bit more challenging, but I didn't. My first
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thing I had was rotator cuff surgery, the first thing
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that I did and that I did not realize was
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going to be as rough as it was after the surgery,
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I had to lay in a bed for five months
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with only I was only able to use my right arm.
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And then after that I had to learn how to
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do everything over again. I had to learn how to
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dress myself set up again. I didn't realize it was
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going to start at the beginning, and I wanted to
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scream over that, but I got through it, and I
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made it through, you know, dealing with the frustrations but
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reminding myself of the positive positives I had. And so
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after that, after recovering that following November of twenty twenty two,
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I fell out of my wheelchair while subbing. I was
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outside going down to c BRMP and I fell out
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of my chair because I have zero balance, you know,
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that's there's nothing to grab onto and I fell on
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parking lot pavement, which you know is hard, but I
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broke my left famur and I because of osteoporosis, I've
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fallen many times, but that time it got me. So
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I had to have surgery for that, and I have
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plates and s cruise in my left by bone the femur.
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And then when I was almost over that March of
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twenty twenty three, not March May of twenty twenty three,
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I fell out of my wheelchair again, just trying to
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change my cat's water bowl. I was bent over and
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I kind of like didn't have the balance. I wasn't
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doing it correctly. I shouldn't have been leaning forward. I
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should have been leading to the side, and so my
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foot fell off my I caught on my footplate and
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it broke my left phibia and tibia. So then I
287
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had a surgery on that, and then I was in
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the hospital over that. The positive in that injury though,
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was that I was in the bathroom of the time
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and the toilet was right in front of me, so
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I could have fill on the toilet, but I didn't,
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so so that was my I'm positive. But then after
293
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I got over that injury, in August of twenty twenty three,
294
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I found out I had a blood clot in my
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right leg and I was experiencing stroke symptoms. It was
296
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so scary, But because of the surgeries and because of
297
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being in a wheelchair, I have a more susceptible to
298
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blood clots in the first place, but then with surgeries,
299
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and I also have a family history because of my mom,
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I ended up having that. So now I deal with that,
301
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but it's manageable and I'm okay so far. For things
302
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:37.120
come in threes, so I'm hoping the fever the phibiativia
303
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in my blood plot is is it for a while.
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But like I said, I have challenges, but I have
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to remind myself that I'll be okay. And I think
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the most frustrating part is that in September of twenty
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twenty two, Michael had.
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His his girl carrying because his sentence was twenty five
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years to life, and so once the prole hearing happened
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and we found out the result that he would have
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to say in prison for the rest of his life,
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most people felt like, which I've always said, there's no
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such thing as closure, because this is something that I
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will remember for the rest of my life, but also.
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Physically it will remind me. But I guess I kind
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of felt like that was going to be a closure
317
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in a way. But after falling and dealing with the injuries,
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I knew that that was something that's still going to
319
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follow me for the rest of my life. But I
320
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wasn't gonna let it beat me. But it's still frustrating
321
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to know that, yes, he's dealing with the consequences of
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his actions. But I'm still going to be dealing with
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the consequences of his actions too, which it's okay. I've
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got you know, I've made a purpose for this, and
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I think that's what gets me through it every day,
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is that there's a reason. So I'm a public speaker now.
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I hope that when I say helps others, and so
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for that what I have to do deal with when
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00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.799
it comes to a wheelchair, giving you a purpose helps
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a lot.
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So and you just answered one of my questions, which
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was how do you feel about the twenty twenty two
333
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results of Michael Carneil's So, with that being said, him
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00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.960
never getting a chance to ever get out of prison,
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have you won Have you ever had a chance to
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speak with him after the crimes? And two, how do
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you feel about him never getting out? Do you think
338
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that's a good thing or do you think that he
339
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deserves a chance?
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Well, I did actually kind of start in the beginning
341
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.599
when he was sentenced in December of ninety eight. Year
342
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after everything happened, everyone who was a victim or a
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family member of a victim could get up and speak
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to him. He wasn't allowed to speak to anybody, but
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everyone was able to talk, and he would mostly like
346
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just stare at the table and not look at anybody.
347
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So when it was my turn, again, I'm not a
348
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confrontational person. I also knew him before this, and so
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I knew also that yelling at somebody and anger is
350
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not going to get someone to listen. And I'm not
351
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an angry you know, Like I'm not a person to
352
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yell either, you know. So I wanted him to hear me,
353
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and I knew he would hear me if I talked
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to him like I'm talking to you. So I the
355
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first thing I said was, Michael, you can look at
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me if you want to, because I did want him
357
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to see that I was different than when he had
358
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seen me before, because he knew me, and so he
359
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.680
looked at me, and I told him some of the
360
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things that I had changed in my life because of
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the injury and the frustrations at that point and that.
362
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But then I told him that I was I was
363
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going to make it through, I was going to be okay,
364
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and that I had forgiven him for what he had
365
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done to me, and the reason why I forgave him.
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I didn't explain it to him. It was for me,
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It was not for him. It was so that I
368
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can move on with my life because I felt like
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I had zero control of that day. I didn't know
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what was going to happen, and if I did it,
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I would have done you know, I would have done something.
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I would hope, I would have told or something. But
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I felt like I didn't have control of that day.
374
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But I have control of every day after that, and
375
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I wasn't going to let that be the consequences of
376
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my actions to make me an angry person, because being
377
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angry is exhausting to me and I would rather be happy.
378
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And so I felt happier if I was able to say,
379
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I forgive you, and I'm gonna move on with my life,
380
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even tho Theo's frustrations and I don't want to yell,
381
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:41.680
you know, I hate Michael or those kind of things.
382
00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:43.599
I don't want that in my life, hate in my life,
383
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that kind of stuff. But after I spoke to him
384
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at that I was probably one of the probably the
385
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:56.279
only nicest speaker that came across to him. And so
386
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:00.359
after that my senior year, he actually started writing me letters.
387
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.400
And the letters were very odd, like some of them
388
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.640
were personal like, hey, Missy, what's up? And then there
389
00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.680
were some that was like because my really is Melissa,
390
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.559
and he'd be like Missy, or do I have the
391
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:17.920
right to call you missy? Shud I call you Melissa,
392
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.920
And it was very like, I don't know, very different,
393
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.799
like he was scared to talk to me. But then
394
00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:25.680
others it was like we were in school together and
395
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:29.279
hanging out or something. It was weird. And so after that,
396
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.160
while I was in California learning how to walk, was
397
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.680
when I was getting these letters. And then whenever I
398
00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:39.160
finally got home in November, we checked our answering machine
399
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.079
because it was the person. We checked it once we
400
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:43.799
got home, and this again, landlines and all that kind
401
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.519
of stuff were still around, and there was a there
402
00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.640
was a voice smail from him and he said, hey, Missy,
403
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.960
just called to see what you're up to. My number
404
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:55.960
is whatever, and you can give me a callback and
405
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.119
so and so we'll connect you to me. And I
406
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.160
was just like, I didn't know that somebody who attempted
407
00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.359
to divert you could call you and talk. And so
408
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.839
I think that he was trying to use me as
409
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:12.400
like a counseling tool in a way, and that At
410
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.000
that point, I was taking care of myself. I was
411
00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:19.119
trying to make my life better, you know, with the
412
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.000
whole brace thing, and trying to beat you know, make
413
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:24.839
it out of high school and graduate and walk around
414
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:28.519
stage for graduation. I was focused on me, and so
415
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:30.680
the end that what topped it off was, I guess.
416
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:35.279
In January, we got another phone call, except I wasn't
417
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:37.359
at home. I was at a basketball game and my
418
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.920
dad answered the phone and when he answered, Michael was like, hey,
419
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.039
is Missy there. My dad was like, no, she's at
420
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.880
a game. Can I ask who's calling? And so then
421
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:50.279
he got quiet, He said Michael, and then my dad
422
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:53.200
got quiet because then he knew who it was. At
423
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:54.960
that point, I didn't have a Michael calling me all
424
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.759
the time, and so once my dad didn't say anything,
425
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:01.160
it was just like being shocked. Michael said I'm sorry,
426
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:03.599
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, like over and over again, and
427
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:05.519
then my dad just hung up the phone. And then
428
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.400
we went to the lawyers and said, can you please
429
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:12.359
ask him to stop contacting at that point, so we stopped.
430
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.960
But then after I got married, I met a man
431
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.480
who wanted to write a book with me. He wanted
432
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.759
to help me write a book, and so one of
433
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:25.319
the things he wanted to do he asked me if
434
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.880
I was or actually I was asked in a speaking
435
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.839
engagement by a kid a question was and it was
436
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:35.000
in the Associated Press that actually helped me get the
437
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.960
co author was the kid asked me would I ever
438
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.480
be willing to meet with him in person and talk
439
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.240
to him? And at that point I was like, you know,
440
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.799
I think I would be ready to talk to him
441
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:50.000
if I could, if I had that opportunity. So the
442
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.000
Associated Press put that in the paper, and that's how
443
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.759
my co author found me. He worked for the Cincinnati
444
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:58.519
Enquirer and so he contacted me, and so one of
445
00:23:58.519 --> 00:23:59.960
the things while we were working on the book together,
446
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:01.400
he said, do you want me to see if I
447
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.160
could try to get you guys together to meet And
448
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:05.920
I said, yeah, that would be great because that was
449
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:08.640
something that I hadn't you know, like I didn't know
450
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.279
where to start when it come to something like that,
451
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:13.039
and it would always have been me wondering if I
452
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.359
could never do anything about it. So he got it
453
00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.559
set up and there was a lot of hoops and
454
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.680
things to jump through, but Michael was willing to meet
455
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.000
with me, and so it was July of two thousand
456
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.799
and seven, and so I was pretty much like about
457
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.440
to pop with my first child because September third is
458
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.680
when I had him. So I was like way into
459
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:38.279
my pregnancy. And I got to the penitentiary, which is
460
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.960
Lagrange Penitentiary, and that place is so scary looking on
461
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.920
the outside, and I then started having second thoughts. I
462
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.039
started kind of getting worried, and I was like, I'm
463
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.000
so stressed out. I'm gonna have my baby in this
464
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:51.480
in this parking lot, because I was just like, you know,
465
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.799
worried about it. Well, at that point, I knew that
466
00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.359
this was going to be possibly the only opportunity that
467
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:00.640
I may have to talk to him facetif because of
468
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.759
the where we had gotten to that point, how long
469
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:05.759
it took for us to get where we were. And
470
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.599
so I had my twin sister there with me maybe
471
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.359
a support, and then he had his older sister with
472
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.480
him as well, and we had a mediator that met
473
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.079
with us too, which we didn't even use her. She
474
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:20.000
just sat there and I knew I wouldn't have to
475
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:23.079
use her. But before I went in there, they told
476
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:27.400
me that he was on medication and that he had
477
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.119
actually been doing the best that he'd ever done, had
478
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.480
ever been doing, and on this medicine, but said that
479
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.680
even though he's doing well, he may have to take
480
00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:40.000
breaks while talking with me, you know, mentally because of
481
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.680
the situation. And I said, sure, I understand. Well. Once
482
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:46.359
I got in there and saw him, it was so
483
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.160
weird because I felt like I was meeting with two
484
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.079
different people. The person I knew from high school, and
485
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:54.400
he definitely didn't look different. He'd grown up like the
486
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.599
person I remember from high school. I could still see
487
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:58.559
him in there, but he was tiny and kind of
488
00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:01.680
like someone would say, like he was just like frail,
489
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:05.160
and I guess geeky looking, but I never thought that
490
00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:08.440
of him. But now he was huge, six foot something
491
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.519
two hundred and some pounds and like big, And so
492
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:16.200
it was like the person that I knew and from
493
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.160
high school. And then I knew it was the person
494
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.119
that it attempted to murder me and created what had happened.
495
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.640
And so I talked to him for about two and
496
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.480
a half hours, and I knew I was not going
497
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:29.519
to get a reason why out of him. I knew
498
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:31.599
that was not going to be what I was going
499
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.400
to get but what I wanted from him was to
500
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.279
know if he was willing or if well, if he
501
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.000
could have gone back and made a different decision, would
502
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:47.319
he have done it? Sorry my past back, Yes, yeah,
503
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:53.839
just go. I wanted to know only one thing, and
504
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:55.680
I was hoping he's going to answer for this, is
505
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:57.920
that if he could go back, would he have made
506
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.920
the same decision. And I asked that question and he
507
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.759
said he wished he could have changed it, he wouldn't
508
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.400
have ever done what he had done. And so for me,
509
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:09.519
that's what I needed because I spoke, I do, I
510
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:11.160
did a lot of speaking at that time, still do.
511
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.440
But I wanted that message from him because I felt
512
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:18.039
like that message would be very powerful for another kid
513
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:20.559
to hear if it was somebody who was contemplating on
514
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:22.319
thinking that was going to be the same thing to
515
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:26.200
help their problems, because it definitely didn't help his. And
516
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.000
so we did share.
517
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:28.400
I did.
518
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:30.920
I did share with him everything I saw that morning
519
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.319
in detail was I wanted him to know, and I
520
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.519
wanted to know what he remembered. And then we just
521
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:38.440
talked about high school and how things were or whatever.
522
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:40.880
But at the end of the two and a half
523
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.279
hour conversation. He didn't have to have any kind of breaks,
524
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:46.039
but he told me that he was sorry for what
525
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:50.519
he had done, and so I felt like it was
526
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.240
a good meeting. After that is when he because I
527
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.480
did ask him if bullying was one of the reasons
528
00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:59.960
why he did what he did, he told me it was.
529
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:03.319
But then he started talking about his mental illness, which
530
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.680
I have no doubt that he has a mental illness.
531
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:10.039
I know that anyone makes that decision or does something
532
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:13.519
like that has to be going through something mentally. But
533
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:15.599
I could tell him he was starting to really lean
534
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:19.200
on that, and so that's when after that he started
535
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:24.920
trying to, I guess, change his plea that he had
536
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.039
because he pled guilty but mentally ill, but started trying
537
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.880
to change it to not guilty for reason of insanity,
538
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.920
and he went to court I don't even know how
539
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.279
many times it was over five less than ten, trying
540
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.599
to change his plea, which never happened. The judge every
541
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:44.960
time said no that he was at that time, said
542
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.119
there was too much time that had passed and that
543
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.319
there was no way to tell if he was mentally
544
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.039
sound in versus now. It's just too long. So after
545
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.240
he exhausted all the things every chance he could for that.
546
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.960
Then the next time I would or that would any
547
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:03.519
kind of courts of what happened would have been the
548
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.960
prole date. And so it was hard though after you know,
549
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.039
like I wasn't looking for apology. But then I found out,
550
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:14.440
after he started doing the appills for his sentence, I
551
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:20.599
found out that he had been on serial killer websites,
552
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:27.039
something called murder Billiga, where people that on these websites
553
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:33.160
would sell things from criminals. Those that are serial killers
554
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.400
are considered serial killers. And I don't know really the
555
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.319
definition of a serial killer, but I guess because he
556
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.839
killed three people, he was considered that. I don't know,
557
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:47.160
but there were people that sold like his prison number
558
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.759
letters that he'd written a hand tracing. There currently still
559
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.920
is pictures of him. There was one that says red
560
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.440
rum across the which I saw all that during the hearing.
561
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.160
I went back to looking to see if all of
562
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.559
that was still up. But one of the things that
563
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:09.599
I guess when I looked at that, the one thing
564
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:12.400
that bothered me the most back back whenever I first
565
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.559
found it was that there was like a question answer
566
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.279
It was almost like a dating service in a way,
567
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:20.759
like in an interview with Michael, and one of the
568
00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:23.359
questions was like, what do you see in a girl?
569
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:25.240
You know, that kind of thing, like what do you
570
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.359
what are you looking for at a girlfriend or something?
571
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:29.200
And that kind of made me sit because I'm like,
572
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.759
why are you what? Why are you okay with being
573
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:36.039
considered a serial killer? That bothered me, you know, if
574
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:38.799
you're so sorry, even though I'm not looking for apology,
575
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.839
I'm went back to me kind of felt like he
576
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.039
could be he could possibly be involved in something like
577
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:47.359
this again, if that makes me sense. He didn't seem to.
578
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.119
That didn't bother him. And even though he didn't make
579
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.039
money off of that, supposedly the people who own the
580
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.799
websites made the money, there was still someone profiting off
581
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.160
of what he did. And so to me, that didn't
582
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.880
feel comfortable with me. So as time went on, I
583
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.240
didn't talk to him or see anything from him anymore.
584
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.240
I think the last time I saw him, didn't speak
585
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.039
to him, was at one of the appeals, one of
586
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.759
the hearings. It was one in Paduca. All the other
587
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:19.680
appeals he was not at, but that one, one particular
588
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:21.960
one he was, and that one appeal was kind of
589
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:27.319
interesting because they also had brought up the serial killer website,
590
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:30.960
but also had found that he was checking out books
591
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:34.839
out of the library about mental illnesses, which to me
592
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.119
that some people looked at it as in he was
593
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.920
like studying up on his mental illness and how to
594
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.440
create it, you know, And I mean that kind of
595
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.880
thing to make it more believable. But I know that
596
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:51.359
his mother's side of the family has what had mental
597
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.319
illness in it. I truly believe the bullying kind of
598
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:59.960
helped push that. And because most kids aren't diagnosed with
599
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.720
some sort of schizophrenia, which is what he was diagnosed with,
600
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.079
until after the age of eighteen, and so I think
601
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:09.680
that that just kind of pushed it forwards. So I
602
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:11.640
do believe he has a mental illness, but I think that,
603
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.640
you know, he's still knew right from wrong, and he
604
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.200
knew that bringing gun to school would hurt somebody, who
605
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:21.359
kill somebody. But once the pear hearing came, I was
606
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:25.839
concerned that if they did let him out, what might
607
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:28.400
happen because at that point he was still things were
608
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.319
still on that website being sold and more up to
609
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:34.599
date things, so if he didn't want those things on there,
610
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.200
if that was something that wasn't in his control, I
611
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:40.519
would think he would be able to do something. His
612
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:44.319
dad was a lawyer, he has a lawyer himself. I
613
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.039
couldn't see why that there wouldn't have been some sort
614
00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:49.160
of action to try to have that removed, you know
615
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:51.519
what I mean. So for me, I feel like there
616
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.440
was still like he didn't care being called a serial killer.
617
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:57.400
That was okay with him, and so for someone to
618
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:01.960
get parole and go, okay he called that bothered me.
619
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.880
I knew that he was on medication, and they said
620
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.400
there was three different ones that they had mentioned in
621
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.000
two thousand and seven, and at this point when they
622
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.000
started talking about his medications, he was on like five
623
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:15.759
five or something like that. So obviously as he got
624
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.759
older they had to adjust medications and change things, and
625
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.839
so I knew at that point he's been taking care
626
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.880
of since he was fourteen. At that point, I think
627
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.680
he was like thirty nine or forty, and so from
628
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.960
the age of you know, I guess now this past
629
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:36.039
June the first, that was his birthday, he turned forty one,
630
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:38.799
and so he's been in the system since he was
631
00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:42.839
fourteen years old. He's been given medication by somebody, he's seen, counselors,
632
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.759
he's been taken care of, and the thought of him
633
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:47.519
getting out and to take care of himself at that
634
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:50.400
point to me did not sound like it was something
635
00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.920
he'd be capable of. Also, the plan was for him
636
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.599
was for him to go live with his parents, and
637
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.559
at that point, you know, his parents are elderly and
638
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:00.920
l he would still be living Kentucky. I think it
639
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.880
was like Central Kentucky, and his parents were elderly at
640
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:09.760
this point. They weren't able to help him then at
641
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:13.760
the age of forty one, and then being older, I
642
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.800
couldn't see them having the ability to make sure he
643
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:19.559
took his medicine, or make him take his medicine, or
644
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.320
go to his counseling appointments. I could see where the
645
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:26.760
stress of the world would cause him to give up
646
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.239
or to make him feel like he was defeated, because
647
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.719
at the time of fourteen years old, back in ninety seven,
648
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:36.639
the world was not very forgiving or nice to him then.
649
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.000
I couldn't imagine him being convicted murderer that they would
650
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:45.360
be nice to him now knowing who he was, he
651
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:48.920
living in Kentucky still and trying to get a job
652
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:52.119
I could see where he might do the same thing again,
653
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.119
go off his meds, parents can't help him, and then
654
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:58.679
for him to do that again. I could see that happening.
655
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.840
And so then also not only that he did have
656
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.239
a pro officer, but he didn't have any kind of
657
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:07.480
ankle monitor or anything like that. That was not anything
658
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.000
that was going to be given to him. So if
659
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:11.639
he showed up, he'd have a set of rules. The
660
00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:14.679
rules would be probably not to contact his victims or
661
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:16.800
to go visit them, But I could see him coming
662
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.639
to visit me. Now that the internet is so much
663
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.000
more improved, I could see he could probably figure that out.
664
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.239
Even though the world in ninety seven is so much
665
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.360
different than the world is now. I think that would
666
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.679
also be something he would be struggling with as well,
667
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.639
how the world's changed. But I think he could probably
668
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:38.000
end up finding where I lived very easily. And it's
669
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.599
not that I was concerned about it, but the fact
670
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:42.880
that my boys were like he could find where we
671
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.760
lived and he could sit in our driveway or he
672
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:48.760
could that's bothered him and I asked, I think the
673
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:50.800
victim advocate at the time, I was just like, well,
674
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.000
what if that were to happen, you know, what would
675
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.119
I do? And they said, oh, well, you'd call his
676
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:57.840
pro officer. And I was like a guy in central Kentucky,
677
00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:01.079
you know, and I live in Western I was like,
678
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.159
he's not even here, you know. Like that kind of
679
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:06.840
thing was very uneasy because I was worried how uneasy
680
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.039
my kids felt. I didn't think he would have tacked me,
681
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:11.559
either to try to get me or something. But they
682
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:14.440
were scared, and that's what upset me, that they would feel,
683
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:18.280
you know, it was affecting them kind of thing, and
684
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.599
so that didn't settle well with me, and so I
685
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.320
was there was Those were the things I was worried about.
686
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:30.159
But once the prole hearing came, there was a day
687
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:33.599
where the victims were able to share their statements and
688
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.840
I had written because they we had to write a
689
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.119
statement out and I wrote a twenty five page statement
690
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.320
about how it affected my life from then until now.
691
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.320
So twenty five pages, and I hope the pro board
692
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.280
right it. They said they did. But whenever I had
693
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:53.480
my whenever I spoke, and you could choose to be
694
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:57.880
a public or private in your presentation to the pro board.
695
00:36:57.880 --> 00:36:59.320
There was only two of the members of the pro
696
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.920
board that met was this, but I chose to be public.
697
00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:05.559
I had always knew. I knew the Pearl hearing was
698
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:09.760
going to come. Twenty five years seemed so long from
699
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.880
when it happened, but once it was already there, I
700
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.119
you know, I was there, and it was a stressful
701
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:19.880
situation because I wanted to make sure that the pro
702
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:23.599
board saw me in my wheelchair, because I felt like
703
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:29.079
I was a reminder of what happened that morning. Because
704
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:33.000
the girls the pro board didn't know them, and they
705
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:35.559
wouldn't be there, and yes, the family would be there,
706
00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:38.800
but they wouldn't know that they lost them. They couldn't
707
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:43.679
visually see that there were scars from the victims that
708
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:45.840
like my friend Kelly, who was raised on the left shoulder.
709
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:49.119
They're not going to see that there were mental scars
710
00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:53.920
from people that, after so many years, felt like they
711
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.639
couldn't deal with the problems that they had because of it,
712
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.800
because of not being physically injured, and you know, relationships
713
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:03.599
in their life, they had a hard time living. They
714
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:07.400
couldn't show that. But I felt like my wheelchair was
715
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.920
going to be a really good visual to show that
716
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:13.880
people were still dealing with the consequences of his actions
717
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:17.159
and that he needed to as well, and so they
718
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:20.159
chose to do it on zoom. So I'd always thought
719
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.960
it would be in person, and so I made sure
720
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.320
that they panned out what they could see, being entirely
721
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:29.480
in my wheelchair. And this was also like I read
722
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.000
from a letter. Normally when I speak, I don't do that,
723
00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:35.199
but this was like the most important important speaking engagement
724
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.559
I would ever give. So I read what I'd written
725
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:43.280
to them, and it was it was hard, and I
726
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:48.320
was nervous, but I got through it. Then after that day,
727
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:50.920
the next day was going to be his turn, and
728
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.639
I was very surprised at what I heard. The same
729
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:59.400
prol or. The prol board members that interviewed us also
730
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.559
talked to him, and they asked him if he had
731
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:03.559
a plan, and he said, well, I think my social
732
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.960
worker and my mom and dad said something, so he
733
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.199
had no plan for himself. They asked him what kind
734
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.480
of job that he would have, and he said, like, oh,
735
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:14.800
I do trash duty here. I guess I could do
736
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.320
something with trash when I get there, you know, when
737
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:21.119
I get home. And then they asked him, you know,
738
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.480
like you know what he could do for society or
739
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:25.519
give back or something, and he was just like, well,
740
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:28.079
I guess if somebody dropped something, I could pick it up,
741
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.440
you know, like you could tell that he had zero
742
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:35.039
effort in you know, this whole thing. He said he
743
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:38.599
was still hearing voices that as I think it was
744
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.920
like three days prior was the last time he'd heard something,
745
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:43.840
and that told him to jump off the stairwell where
746
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.320
he was at or something and kill himself. But I
747
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:50.239
couldn't tell whether he was trying to push himself to
748
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:52.880
go to a mental institution or if he wanted to
749
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.960
stay there for the rest of his life. And I
750
00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.159
think he wanted to stay there, I really do. And
751
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:01.000
I look at it and think, you know, that's all
752
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:04.159
he's known for so many years. I think he knows
753
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:07.239
what would what would happen if he were to believe there.
754
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:12.039
He doesn't know anything but that now. And so after
755
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.199
that day, they chose that they said they were undecided,
756
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:17.679
which I was so confused about. But I think in
757
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.760
order for them to keep him there for the rest
758
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:24.400
of his life, they had to do this. So they
759
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.199
ended up pushing it until the following Monday so that
760
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.360
the entire pearl board could make the decision together. I
761
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:33.239
think that was about seven or eight people or something
762
00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:36.000
like that. But that's when they then said that they
763
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:39.000
felt like he should remain there for the rest of
764
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:42.360
his life. And so I think that was the best
765
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:46.039
decision that they can make. And again, it's not because
766
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:48.840
I was scared for myself. It was because I knew
767
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.639
that there was too much of a potential of him
768
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:56.280
doing this again, and I couldn't see any positives in
769
00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:58.800
letting him out, and I really honestly don't think he
770
00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:03.920
did either. So after that, I've not had any contact
771
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.280
with him. I've not heard anything about him. I don't
772
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.199
know anything that's happened since September of twenty twenty two.
773
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.039
And is that your choice? Do you do you not
774
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:16.920
want to have contact with him from here on out?
775
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:21.079
Yeah? I don't think there's reason too. There's no reason.
776
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.480
There's reasons why whenever I you know, when I spoke
777
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:29.679
to him at the at the sentencing, when I spoke
778
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:31.599
to him in two thousand and seven, wanted to know
779
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:33.559
if he could change, if he would change his mind,
780
00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:36.239
because I wanted to give that to other kids, that
781
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.559
I wanted that powerful message to come from him for
782
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:44.000
kids that were contemplating doing that. I think that, you know,
783
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:46.480
speaking to him the pro board and saying why I
784
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:49.480
thought he needed to say there. There's nothing else that
785
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:51.960
I have to say. You know, we're not going to
786
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:55.280
be best friends. You know, he's even I've forgiven him.
787
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:58.599
It's I want to move on with my life and
788
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:01.480
live my life. And when I forgave him, that's when
789
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:03.440
I wanted. And I think I get a choice or
790
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:04.400
a chance to do that now.
791
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.320
Even though the situation, the wheelchair and the stuff that
792
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.559
I've been experiencing because of it does remind me of why,
793
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.760
and then it wouldn't have been like this if I
794
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:18.679
hadn't had this happen to.
795
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.039
Me and who did it. But I don't focus or
796
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:25.199
try to dwell on that because I'm past that. I'm
797
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.280
living my life to live my life. I want to
798
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:31.599
have that full life I mentioned before. Like my twin sister,
799
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:35.199
she was kind of like my motivator because she got
800
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.679
to do the teenage stuff and she's you know, she
801
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:40.119
still walks, she helps me all the time, but she
802
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:42.199
kind of reminds me that I want to do that too.
803
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:44.880
I want to be able to do that too, and
804
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.400
so you know, I still have my boys. I want
805
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:51.400
to be able to be their mom because I almost
806
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.519
didn't get that chance, and so I'm past that, and
807
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.039
I don't think there's a reason why I need to
808
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:57.800
contact him, right.
809
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:01.079
That's completely understandable, and I think anybody can totally understand
810
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.119
and aggress the concept of why you don't want to.
811
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:05.320
Right.
812
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:08.599
So, I know you've mentioned your book a few times,
813
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:10.480
which is called I Choose to Be Happy. Can you
814
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:12.320
talk a little bit about that and what that is
815
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.639
all about and what people can expect to get out
816
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:15.840
of that and where they can find it.
817
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.239
Sure, it's like an overview of like just everything that
818
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:24.719
happened up until you know, having my kids and getting married.
819
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:28.480
It's not It was written in two thousand and eight,
820
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.599
it was revised in twenty twelve, and then again in
821
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:34.880
twenty fourteen. I'm hoping maybe we could do a revision
822
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:39.239
of adding the prole hearing, because even though I think
823
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:41.880
that would be a good update and end too the book,
824
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:44.199
even though there's not really an end to my story,
825
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:46.559
that would be something that I feel like that needs
826
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:48.360
to be added, But it'd be something I have to
827
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:51.320
discuss with publisher, and we haven't gone there yet, but
828
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:56.320
it's it kind of shows like exactly what happened in
829
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:59.559
more depth, because there is a chapter about the letters
830
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:01.719
that he wrote me and what he said in them.
831
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:05.440
There's a chapter about his interrogation after the shooting and
832
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:09.800
what happened. There's a chapter about bullying. There's a chapter about, like,
833
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:14.280
you know, how I'm looking towards the positives and how
834
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:16.400
it affects me and that kind of thing. It kind
835
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:18.880
of goes a lot lot more to death depth than
836
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:22.400
I do whenever I'm speaking or sharing in an interview.
837
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:26.440
And so that's what that book is about. And it's
838
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:28.480
called I Choose to Be Happy, and it's also sold
839
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:33.199
on Amazon. You can I have a website, it's Missy
840
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:36.440
Jinkins dot com. You can actually order it through that
841
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:40.679
as well, but Amazon has it. I also wrote a
842
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:44.679
second book in twenty seventeen. It is called Lessons from
843
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:48.199
a School Shooting Survivor. And so that one is more
844
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:50.519
about the lessons I learned, and it's more of a
845
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.719
teaching tool. It's still like a read that you can, like,
846
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:55.960
you know, through stories in it and things like that
847
00:44:56.000 --> 00:45:00.159
from my experiences, but from what you know, from what
848
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:04.039
I learned like the very first chapter is learning people's stories.
849
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:08.400
I working as a counselor, I've met so many people
850
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:10.800
or kids that others would look at and say that
851
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:13.320
kid's weird, or that you know, the kids different, or
852
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:15.960
they would have opinions about that person before they even
853
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:18.519
knew what that person had been through. I think that
854
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:22.519
was one thing, you know, that that creates bullying, and
855
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:26.199
so learning people's story and understanding them, not that you know,
856
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:28.199
you have to be okay with everything, like if the
857
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:30.920
kid smells or you can tell they didn't change their
858
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.760
clothes every day, but have that understanding that that's that's
859
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.800
their story. They're going through something that you didn't have
860
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.199
to experience, and that's why they hear they act the
861
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.639
way they do, and it's you know, and they need help.
862
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:44.000
They need compassion, they don't need someone tearing them down.
863
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:48.039
That kind of stuff, Empathy, learning to listen to someone,
864
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:55.480
those kind of things that I learned about the time
865
00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:57.760
after the after I had the after the shooting happened,
866
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:00.679
and I think that I did feel like God gave
867
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.239
me this to give me a purpose in life, and
868
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:07.920
so I feel like I've tried to use that to
869
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:10.800
help others and with my books, I kind of feel
870
00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:13.639
like that's what I can do in a bigger scale
871
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:17.000
beyond speaking or through an interview, but to be able
872
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:20.559
to share what I learned, and I feel like that's
873
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.320
what you know, there's not a lot of people that
874
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:26.519
know what their purpose is in life, and I'm blessed
875
00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:30.119
to know that. And so that's another one of the
876
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:33.039
the purposes that if there's a purpose and a reason
877
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:36.519
for this, then I'm gonna, like, God help me give that.
878
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:38.840
And you know, before I'm make sure I was shy.
879
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:41.079
There's no way I could get up and talk in
880
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:44.480
front of a group or even an interview and not
881
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:48.639
just kind of let it go. I feel like that's
882
00:46:48.679 --> 00:46:51.639
something that, you know, one of the things that God
883
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:54.280
has given me the ability to do and part of
884
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:59.440
my purpose. But The Lessons from a School Shooting Survivor
885
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:02.840
is also on Amazon as well, and you can also
886
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:05.320
get it through the website as well. But if you
887
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:10.400
look up Missy Jenkins Smith and William Croyle is my
888
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:14.000
co author, just to put that on the Amazon like
889
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:16.440
also with the title, that should be able to help
890
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:17.480
you find it.
891
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.280
Okay, all right, Yeah, I learned about your second book
892
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.400
last night, and I was amazed to realize that you
893
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:26.679
wrote another book, which was the I it was that
894
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.639
Tips from a School Shooting Survivor or something like that,
895
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:30.320
that's what it's called.
896
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:34.440
Yeah, it was a Lessons from a School shooting Survivor.
897
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.199
And then there's a more to the title along long
898
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:39.719
one after that. But I never thought that I would get,
899
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:41.760
you know, there would be a second book out of
900
00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.280
my story. But my co author is an amazing writer
901
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:47.880
and he has amazing ideas, and he helped me with that,
902
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:51.119
and I thought about a third one. I've got an
903
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:53.639
idea of how I won't handle it, and that's actually
904
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.280
through the letters that people sent me from all over
905
00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:02.079
the world. I think that's something that we all have lost,
906
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:04.960
is that communication because of social media and that kind
907
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.719
of thing, you know, texting and just emailing, but not
908
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:10.480
like that physical I still have all those letters, or
909
00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:12.800
most of them. I couldn't carry them all with me
910
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:15.920
because back when I don't even know how much I
911
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:17.719
had all together, but I know the most I had
912
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.840
in one day was six hundred letters and like forty
913
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.199
five packages sent from people, and so I couldn't keep everything.
914
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:28.519
But I still have some and I still look at
915
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:31.320
that and think of how big that was and how
916
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:34.079
motivating that was, and how there are there's actually so
917
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.360
much good in the world. Even though we see a
918
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.360
lot of bad, there are good people that care about others,
919
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.199
and just you know, I think also when I hear
920
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.880
people say how they get so angry and that prayers
921
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:48.760
and my thoughts and prayers are with you or aren't
922
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.880
helpful and you're not doing anything. But that is something
923
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:55.239
I needed when I felt alone and felt like everyone
924
00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:58.079
had forgotten me or felt like that could happen, and
925
00:48:58.119 --> 00:48:59.760
that I was still dealing with it and everyone was
926
00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:03.400
working on getting back to life. I needed people to
927
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:05.519
acknowledge and say, you know, you're still going through this
928
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.440
and we're rooting for you. We know you can do it.
929
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.079
I needed that. So when I see thoughts of prayers,
930
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:13.199
that's something that can be done if anybody's going to
931
00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:16.280
do anything, and so I have so I feel like,
932
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:18.199
you know, those letters mean a lot, and so just
933
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:19.840
you know, sharing letters.
934
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:22.079
That I had in the motivation from others that were
935
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:24.519
given to me that would help someone in a situation,
936
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:28.320
not just a school shooting situation, but you know, anything
937
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:30.920
that's going to cost someone to feel like they're alone
938
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:32.559
or they're going to give up that there's good in
939
00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:33.039
the world.
940
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:35.679
And so that's kind of an idea I have, but
941
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:39.840
I haven't discussed it with my co author. Shit, me
942
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:42.519
and my twin sister just discussed it so far, so
943
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:44.719
but never go through. It might be a third one
944
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:45.599
in my life.
945
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:50.400
So that's awesome. That's amazing. Well, I want to thank
946
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:52.280
you for your time today. I'm sorry I've taken almost
947
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.199
two hours of your time up. I could probably talk.
948
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:56.639
We could probably talk another three, four or five ten
949
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.800
hours if if if time allotted.
950
00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:02.239
You know. Yeah, I'm a talker too, And I want
951
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:04.320
to thank you though for having me because you were
952
00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:07.079
my counselor giving me a chance to talk about it,
953
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:09.880
because I think that's something Michael needed, was to talk
954
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:11.880
about what he was going through, or he wouldn't have
955
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:14.679
just simmered in himself with everything he was going through.
956
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:19.239
So thank you for letting me talk about what I've
957
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:23.199
gone through because that helps me mentally. So I appreciate that.
958
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:25.719
Yeah, thank you so much, And we'll definitely be in touch,
959
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:28.159
and I hope next time I'm in Kentucky we can
960
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:29.760
definitely you know, meet in person.
961
00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:31.840
And have lunch and that'd be great.
962
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.400
Awesome. Thank you so much, thank you. That was part
963
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:39.440
two of my interview with Missy Jenkins Smith. For extra content,
964
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:42.280
add free episodes and more, head on over to patreon
965
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