The Ochelli Effect 7-10-2025 TRIBUTE Joan Mellen 2

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Okay, So if you're still listening on the live stream,
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this is a quick, easy continuation. If not, this is
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part two of the podcast that is a tribute to
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my friend author who passed away recently, Joan Mellon, who
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was the first guest on The Ocelli Effect in February
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of twenty fifteen, the first live guest on the Ocelli Effect. Okay, anyway,
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there was only a handful of podcasts recorded before that,
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and it became what it became now these many years later.
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The dogs are making noise. I'm sorry about that, guys,
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and I'm going to get right back into the interview
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with Joan, because today, as I speak, it's July tenth
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of twenty twenty five, and I wasn't I've been so
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dismayed as of late, I wasn't even gonna do a show,
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and then I got the sad news that Joan Mellon
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had passed away.
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And I told a story in.
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Part one about the general arc of our entire relationship. Really,
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I left a few things out because you know, she's
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entitled to her privacy about some things, but she was
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a friend. We had a relationship of an interesting dynamic
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to me and I have one more small story to
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tell about her, but I'll do that after I let
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her speak for herself. I got that show from twenty
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four to fifteen. Here lined up twenty fourteen. I keep
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making that mistake. February fifteen of twenty fourteen. Okay, that's
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when the o'celli Effect was live with Joan Mellan as
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my first live guest on a Saturday night on ucy
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dot TV, an alternative media radio network which hardly those
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things don't even exist anymore, right, I still have a
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little radio network for as long as I can pay
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for that. Anyway, it is what it is, and hopefully
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you guys are getting something out of this.
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And I mean to be.
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Very respectful and pay tribute to somebody who had a
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great influence on me. And whether you know it or not,
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if you're following real information, real research, actual solid stuff
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when it comes to the jfk assassination, the USS liberty,
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the various machinations of what's gone on in Cuba and
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Haiti and other places, plus many other books. She wrote
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a couple dozen books, some of them on film, Japanese
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film in particular, but cinema and women in Cinema, Marilyn Monroe,
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a lot of books on a lot of things, but
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a whole bunch of them you'll see on the graphic
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for this tribute.
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To Joan Mellen.
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Anyway, enough out of me, Let's get right back to
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it and play some more of this where I may
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or may not stop and comment here or there, just
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to remind you of the context. Eleven years later from this,
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and then I've got a piece of an interview. Let
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me check the date on it real fast. I've got
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a piece of an interview, so it won't be the
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whole thing. I might play this whole thing in these
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two parts, you know, split between the two parts, but
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I might not.
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But I also have an interview.
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From twenty eighteen with Joan. So four years after this one,
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and we had done a few shows and continue to
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do shows. We did one on Faustian Bargain. We did
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one on the Sherlock being catfished. We did one on
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Blood in the Water, the USS liberty story, Ourman and
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Haiti about de morn Shields, right. We did the discussion
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on the Great Game in Cuba and all of the
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interesting you know, anti and pro castro Cubans involved in
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various aspects of the Kennedy assassination and other deep political
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things going on, and she talks about the CIA pretty
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bluntly here and again my opinions differed from Joan on
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a few things, but I bet if you're familiar with
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my point of view on various things that are coming
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up during this interview, which I strategically brought up in
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a two hour spot, by the way, on a Saturday
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with Joan.
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I was really happy to do it.
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And I thought, lead with my best foot forward, and
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this was the friendly person I knew that would bring
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me something very very solid, very very correct, very very
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well backed by research and proper work. And also she
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was a hell of a writer, clearly anyway, she had
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her flaws, she had her quirks, and towards the end
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of her life she was pretty angry at me for
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various things. But I hope that she remembers now that
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I was always her friend and always somebody that was
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happy to talk her through things, work with her on things,
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give her a different perspective when she requested it, and
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gets shut down respectfully, and shut the hell up when
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I I was told do And it didn't matter if
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we were talking about, you know, Thomas Beckham, or the
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New York Mets, or the goings on in Jersey because
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we both lived there for many years. Anyway, back to
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the twenty fourteen interview with Joan Mellon from the Ocelli
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Effect archives got.
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A huge amount of contributions from Brown and Route and
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of course again in nineteen forty eight he did so
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this is a mutual admiration society. And when Johnson, by
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the time, let's say nineteen sixty four comes, the net
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worth of Lyndon Johnson was twenty four million dollars. Now,
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when you think he did many scams, many and many,
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but when you think that President Kennedy was considered a
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rich man, only had ten million dollars, you can see
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what enormous efforts that Lindon Johnson made to feathering his nest.
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And he was a master act, tremendously shrewd. And he
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had people like Bobby Baker, and he had people like
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Billy Celestes and others to help him alone. And of
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course in those days in Texas as in Louisianda, you
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could give campaign contributions anytime. You know, the person didn't
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have to be running for office. It's incredible. So you
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could so then you could call any kind of gift
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that you wanted to give a campaign contribution, all sorts
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of methods that they had Johnson and the radio station
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and the control of that, and how Johnson retained a
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monopoly on the radio state. He had the only radio
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station and TV station in Austin, Texas in his wife's name,
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so ridiculous. And then he would sell people were forced
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to by advertising on these radio and the TV station,
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and if they didn't, he got you know, they suffered
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the consequences and he got money that way. And there
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was so many scans and so.
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Yeah, there's always an array of ways that any any
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criminal enterprise, no matter what you're looking at, there's always
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got to be in a ray of options for laundering
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the money. And Johnson certainly had many many options for
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doing that. But again, to put him as a mastermind
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for something as extreme as the assassination of John F. Kennedy,
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there is just no foundation for it. If there was,
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that would be one thing. There's plenty of foundation for
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all these criminal acts that we're talking about, and we
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don't even have We could probably sit and do this
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show for the next three months for two hours every
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week and not even complete all of the stuff that
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Johnson had his fingers in. And Brown and Root, by
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the way, just for those who are saying to themselves,
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you know, this stuff isn't really relevant nowadays, or it
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isn't relevant to any of the current events. I always
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try and point out, you know, this is where a
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lot of things were seeded Brown and Root. Later on,
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you can link it to things like ready for this Haliburton.
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Okay, Well, Halliburton bought Brown and Root the minute that
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Herman Brown died in December of nineteen sixty two, and
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they didn't want to sell. So George Brown, the surviving brother,
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signed the papers for the sale to Halliburton just then.
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And so then George stayed on. I don't know the
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exact financial arrangements. He was still involved with Brown and
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Root at the time that they fortified themselves in Vietnam.
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I want to say something else about Brown and Ruth
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that is interesting, and it's in my update also for
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the Farewell to Justice, and that is that Jim Garrison
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was very angry at Lyndon Johnson for not releasing the
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files and exhibits of the Warren Commission and looking at
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Lyndon Johnson, he also saw as people later pretending like
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Caro pretends that even made the discovery that Johnson was
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supported by Herman and George Brown, but of course everyone
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knew it before that there was no new discovery. Garrison
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looked at Johnson and that he saw the Browns, and
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Hermann was dead already when Garrison made his identity investigation,
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there was George Brown. So the name of George Brown
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came up in the Garrison investigation. And some of the
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spies that Chuck that you referred to earlier, such as
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William Gerbrich, who was a cheap detective who applied the
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Port of New Orleans down there, real low figure. Anyway,
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he infiltrated. Garrison was very trusting. That was one of
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Garrison's faults he had fause this was no sake. And
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one of them was he let people in who would
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flatter him and who would seem to be committed, and
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they were really spying and cheating and stealing documents and
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so forth. And so Garbrich is listening to what's going
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on in the office and he hears the name George Brown,
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and so he reported it to a media assets. THEIA
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media asset named Hugh Ainsworth, now Hugh Ainsworth then called
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up George Brown and told him his name was mentioned
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Aarison was accusing him, which wasn't the case at all
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in being involved in the Kennedy assassination. And as a
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result of that whole little dance, if you like, Garrison
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liked to use that metaphor of the dance. As the
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result of all that, guess what the CIA looks at
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George Brown, and they know him well, and so we
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get the most valuable document that I think we have
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on the whole Kennedy assassination in my humble opinion, and
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that is a description of the CIA service, the service
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to the clandestine services of Herman and George Brown, and
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a whole slew a whole list of executives of Brown
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and Root and they were all part of CIA starting
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in the early nineteen fifties.
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Just whoa take note there that she literally identifies Hughaansworth
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as a CIA asset, even though he was a mainstream
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journalist and a constant go to because he was also
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a witness to the assassination that day, as they represented him.
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But what's hilarious is this is interviews in twenty fourteen.
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It's not till twenty seventeen that I saw most researchers
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willing to admit that huane'sworth was guess what.
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Work and for the Feds baby anyway, just saying.
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Joan did not suffer stupidity or men's words and wouldn't
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let me mince words.
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When I talked to her privately, she was rough.
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I was worried she was going to do that to
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me on my show, on my debut show, and I
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was going to look like.
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A punk swear to God anyway, back to it.
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And as a result, also we get a look in
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the same document at various foundations, including the Brown Foundation,
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which was a foundation set up by George Brown, I think,
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and all of them, and they would use this pass through.
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CIA used these foundations as passed throughs to fund domestic activities.
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There's things that they were they were not entitled to
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according to their the use of the foundations and all
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this came out in Congress by a Texas congressman named
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Right Patton, who exposed it all. And so there we
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have the CIA's own document admitting to the use of
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Herman and George Brown which is gold in terms of
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how we connect all these things, as Don DeLillo says
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in his great novel Underworld, and everything is connected, and then.
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Here we have it. And if not for.
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Garrison, and I think Chuck you were saying earlier, if
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not for Garrison Oliver Stone wouldn't have had the film.
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And if not for the film, we wouldn't have had
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the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records and Collection Act, and
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we wouldn't have had all the documents, and none of
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these books that have been written about the Kennedy assassination
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in the last twenty years would never have been published.
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And the Assassination Records Review Board which was formed as
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a result from the outcry of that movie. And again
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I say you could trace that back to Garrison's case,
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the fact that Stone had publicized it, and all of
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that stuff which later gave us that marvelous collection that
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is there now at the National Archives. All of these
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things give you a blueprint for the anatomy of many
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of the intelligence services attempts to subvert many things, especially
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the media assets. That stuff is laid out so clearly,
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and Hugh Ainsworth just in case my listeners think that
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that is a familiar name. Hugh Ainsworth is one of
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these guys that has always pulled out. He's still being
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pulled out today on all of these Oswald did it
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shows as an assassination witness, as an authority on the
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real situations that were occurring in Dallas and all these
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things because he was a reporter in Dallas at the time.
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But as you point out, this guy can be tied
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to the agency. He was definitely an asset. That's just
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the way it is. And on top of that, you know,
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when you examine this stuff that's coming out all the time, again,
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this is how it works. It gives you a blueprint
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for how it is they turn around and discredit people
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and stuff like this. Now, another little point that I
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wanted to make here, It's just a small point, is
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that you're not talking about Jim Garrison as somebody that
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you learned about through the JFK movie or that you
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happened to read about because he was an assassination literature
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or anything like that. You actually knew the man, didn't you.
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Well, what happened was I mentioned earlier on our program
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the Piaiese Sarah newspaper series about the CIA front Permandex
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and Central Monday al COMMERCIALI. Well, my husband was living
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in London at the time and we weren't married then,
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but he he got a set of those newspapers and
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he sent them to Jim Garrison in New Orleans. So
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in May of nineteen sixty nine, Garrison the chaw Off
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course was a in March. In May of nineteen sixty nine,
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Garrison invited my husband and me to New Orleans and
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he wanted to thank Ralph and like that. So there
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we go. We go, and I'd never been to New Orleans.
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It's terribly hot down there.
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I have to tell you.
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It's seltry and I was sick, and so the photograph
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in a farewell to Justice, I look pretty bedraggled. I'm
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sick with fever from the sultry weather. And Garrison and
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my husband and I are sitting in the hotel room
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and Garrison is talking about the Kennedy assassination. And the
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blinds were bothering me. The sun was so somebody working
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for the hotel came in to fix the blinds and
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he said, hello, mister Garrison. And I found that surprising.
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By the way, at the hotel, it was the hotel
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monte Leone on Royal Street, and Garrison registered us as
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mister and missus Lyndon Baines Johnson, which is really very
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funny in the light of everything that has happened since,
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even funnier. But when this man said, I said, well, gee,
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how come he's saying hello to mister Garrison. I had
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no idea. And then when we walked in the street,
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it would going to the Garrison's favorite restaurant, which was
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called Miran La Louisiana, and people in the street, especially
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black people, are saying hello to mister Garrison, and I think,
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I don't even know. I did not know that he
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was district attorney, which he was. He had been reelect it.
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In fact, didn't know, no, no, he was running for
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reelection because the election was probably that on him. You
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would not know that he was district attorney except for
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people are recognizing him in the street because he's talking
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all the while about the Kennedy assassination. And I thought
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that was all he cared about, really, was the Kennedy assassination. Well,
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I knew Garrison's ambition in life was not to be
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a district attorney or a lawyer or any of this.
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He wanted to be an author, and so he was
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writing manuscripts and books about the Kennedy assassination and novels,
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and he was sending him to me, and he wanted
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to talk three hours at a stretch. And those who
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know him are like say Vince Landry and Philadelphia. People
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who have been his print know that he could talk
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for hours and hours. You didn't say a word, and
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he's talking about his writing and what he's thinking and
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what he's doing. And this went on for some years,
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and then in the early nineteen seventies when he was
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charged by the federal government for taking bribes from pimball
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operators illegal pinball gambling interests, and he was on trial
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and he was framed. It was clear that he was framed,
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and I thought, well, this would be a great subject
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for a book. I want to write a book about
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Garrison and what happened to him and all this. Of course,
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Garrison was acquitted both of taking the bribes, and then
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he was tried again by the Internal Revenue Service for
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not paying taxes on the bribes that he was acquitted
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of taking.
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Yeah, most interestingly, he was acquitted of the tax evasion
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on the bribes that it had already been established in
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the court of law. He hadn't taken That was the
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fascinating part of that for me.
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Yes, So anyway, I thought I'll write this book then,
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and then I just didn't. I didn't know how to
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write a biography. I certainly didn't know enough about any
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of this, So you know, I didn't start then Garrison,
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and so I saw him again. The last time I
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saw Garrison was in nineteen eighty seven, and Oliver Stone
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was working on his film, and he was very happy
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about that. He was going to play Chief Justice or
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a Warren. Garrison played or a Warren in the film,
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which he thought was funny, and so he was very young.
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But he was just the same in nineteen eighty seven
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as he had been in nineteen sixty nine, talking NonStop
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about the fact that the brother of Dullas's second in command,
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General Charles Cabell, was the mayor of Dallas at the
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time of the Kennedy assassination, and the business with the
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parade route wasn't changed going over this material that Oswald
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never fired a shot, going over this over and over again,
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and then he got sick, and I didn't start writing
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and doing the research the actual book until nineteen ninety seven.
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I wrote many many books since during that time, but
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I didn't start again until ninety seven. And the first
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person two people together. They were afraid to see me alone.
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I thought.
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The two people that I saw first were Frank Minard,
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who was the coroner of Orleans Parish for many many years.
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He was the only white man that got re elected
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in later years. But Frank told me that when he
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would go into the house of somebody, when some collect
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a dead body he was a coroner, he would see
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three photographs in the black people's homes. There was, predictably
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doctor Martin Luther King Junior. There was John F. Kennedy,
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and there was Jim Garrison. These are the people that
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were that were most admired. And so Frank told me
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Nana and lou Aivan was the other person that was
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with him, and they began to tell me about Jim Garrison,
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what he was like in his life, and and it
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was funny. I think one of the things that I
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missed in the Oliver Stone film that was was the
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humor of Garrison. That's sardonic irony, and I love the line.
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I ope my favorite rong it still is the line
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of Garrison where he says was talking about in his
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investigation and being in the investigation, and he said, I
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thought I was living in the country I was born in,
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and the country that he was born in was a
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country with civil liberties with us, that with justice, justice
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under the law, and that you don't have a country,
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for example, in which when he charged Clay Shaw with
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perjury after the Shaw trial, it went into federal court,
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which I had no business. It was a state Louisiana
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matter perjury. It's not a federal crime. But somehow it
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got into federal court and it was dismissed because Shaw
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lied on the stand in the trial and he said
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that he didn't know Oswald and he didn't know David Ferry.
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And we have ten witnesses or more. There was some
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that didn't compere at the trial, black and white, who
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said that they saw Shaw and this is very important
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to Shaw and Ferry and Oswald driving in a black
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Cadillac up to Jackson and Clinton, Louisiana, north of Baton
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Rouge and Oswald had gone up there there to Clintlinton
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to vote and to figure out what Garrison see.
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Now, this interview continues for quite a while more, and
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if you want the whole thing, by all means, go
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ahead and email me.
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I'll be a lot happier if you.
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Know supporters that have supported me before, email me to
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request if you want a copy of this if you
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didn't already, get it through the archives or whatever else,
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or get it, you know, in a replace somewhere, or
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00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.160
get that upgraded version of it I put out a
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couple of years ago. I'll be more than happy to
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send you the best version of it that I have
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a copy of and fire it on off to you
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via email at least for well the remainder of July,
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which is as long as I'm sure that I'll be
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able to maintain my email storage account.
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But we'll see what happens.
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Anyway, we're going to take a little break here, and
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as we do, I'm going to come back and play
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another piece from a separate interview with Joan, and we'll
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continue this particular tribute to Joan Mellon, the author of
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many many books on the Ocelli effect.
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Stick around, revel level, through, Okay, through break Through.
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00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.000
This is James Corbett corpor Report dot Com, and you're
395
00:22:54.039 --> 00:23:00.920
listening to the effect at dot com.
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00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:06.319
What I Do revelation through conversation in a radio show
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00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:11.799
slash podcast. You want the good news, listen to the
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00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.400
o'helly effect. Check o'celly is the most underrated voice in
399
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:23.559
all media, news, education, and entertainment. The daily bread from
400
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:30.240
o'ceelly dot com. Go there, save yourself from ignorance ochelly
401
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.680
dot com. But we all agreed to put o'elly dot
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00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:39.759
com on and listen to the o'helly effect. Revelation through
403
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.279
conversation o'helly dot com.
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00:23:43.000 --> 00:24:11.559
Gee Baseline crowds raise the strings, black smul bleed, kick trunk,
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00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:13.359
crushed on snaps from the beats.
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00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:13.559
Green.
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00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.279
Grass, creams, loud raise a cuts through the night, matosap
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00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:25.319
and blues bleed dice in a fighter. They are crashed
409
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.319
with fire, rhythms off the change, sweat hits the stage,
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00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.680
pleasure born from pain, saxophone whales, shot like a fang,
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hip hop bloke.
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Plin were chaos, sun chained, infernal roars, let the boy,
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00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:49.039
John Soon, crashing beats, pain o sonic too, metal grime,
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00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:57.079
soul breaks in Sooo, horns of madness, screaming boo.
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00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:01.359
Rolt Halo, fast what Grandam is h from nuklear weapons
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00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:02.519
and other things.
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00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:04.759
Like lots of lord urullium is right?
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00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.519
Bad things we have the things have Donna with Ura, including.
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00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.039
Some bad things. Look for a holocaust ronium is right?
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Go ahead call it the truth about the Jafay assassination.
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00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:16.720
Right, Well, what do you want to know?
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00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.319
Dy Baker's wild claim? Oswald girlfriend, he knew Ruby and
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Barry answer weapons?
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Really?
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I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. It
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doesn't make me a wagon, but okay.
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Oswald on the building and I'm trying to prevent the
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murder of John Kennedy. Come on now, has a real
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00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:32.599
effort on the day of Hay assassination.
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00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.160
Book into her claim. Go to Amazon dot com enter
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00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:39.720
Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results
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00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.400
for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown
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00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.599
utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the
434
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.839
case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say
435
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:52.720
you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words
436
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.839
from the author himself, signed if you request it by
437
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.880
contacting doctor Brown at k I as jfk at a
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00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.960
dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects
439
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.960
the many, many fantastic claims Judith Barry Baker in her
440
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:10.440
own words, Thank you Information.
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00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.839
The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national
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00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.920
transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in
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00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.400
the context of the times, and reveals never before published
444
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:24.039
information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not
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00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:26.799
have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred
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00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.200
years ago. His assassination took place in the context of
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00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.200
the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.
448
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.799
Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic.
449
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.240
In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.
450
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.920
Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,
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00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.359
but knew that there were short range missiles on the
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00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.559
island armed with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy
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00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.480
because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have
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00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.559
led to a Third World War, and they wanted to
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00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:58.920
go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson
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00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:01.960
reveals wa and we'll show you what President Kennedy was
457
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:02.519
up against.
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00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:14.200
For more information, the Warstate dot Com. My name is
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00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:14.839
Alex Dedule.
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00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:16.599
I'm gonna turn you out, Phara and Pharah and I
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00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:17.920
practice personal injury law.
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00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:18.599
I'm from.
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00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:40.119
Revelation through Conversation.
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00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.440
Second segment of The O'Kelly Effect, Part two, tribute to
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00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.319
Joan Mellon, and we're gonna get straight on into it
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within your interview from twenty eighteen. And this is regarding
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00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.240
a different circumstance.
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00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:10.279
How about this. It looks like it's hour number two from.
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00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:16.400
The Let's See Now October twenty sixth, twenty eighteen interview
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with Joan Mellon regarding the USS Liberty and her book
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Blood in the Water. Anyway, it's the second hour, and
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I think I was on American Freedom Radio at this time.
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I don't really remember. Now, maybe I wasn't. I don't know.
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I guess we'll have to listen and find out. Let's see,
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because I probably announced it at the beginning of the hour,
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if that's what happened. But I haven't listened to this.
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00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.160
I'm listening to it along with you guys, because I
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just randomly selected these things. And well, I mean, truthfully,
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I wanted to play part of the first interview, at
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least that I did with her, but I wanted to
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follow up with something else, and I chose this at random,
482
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.559
So hopefully this works out for you guys, and you
483
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.359
enjoy it. I know it'll be packed with information, just
484
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.240
like the other piece was. And again it's look July
485
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:09.240
tenth of twenty twenty five, and unfortunately Joan Mellon is
486
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:14.079
no longer on this planet with us, so hopefully this
487
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:16.319
sound quality is a little better too, and maybe my
488
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:18.480
delivery will have improved in a couple of years there,
489
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:21.319
because now I'm more than four and a half years
490
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.680
deep into my broadcast career.
491
00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:25.839
On this clip, right.
492
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.880
From after we repeat to bring my brother back to
493
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:37.880
where I'm coming from.
494
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.440
Now, treat joy again.
495
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:47.759
That's all.
496
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.720
That's all. That's all.
497
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.359
Second Hour The Ocelli Effect begins now here to Shelley
498
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.720
dot Com, but also heard a variety of other affiliates.
499
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.079
We do appreciate all of you for tuning in. Anyway,
500
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.519
if you're catching this in podcast form, you're going to
501
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:13.359
need to refer to the show notes to find out
502
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:16.519
where you can pre order the book, which is by
503
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.519
my guest tonight, Joan Mellan, the author, but she's a
504
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:20.519
lot more than an author.
505
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:21.119
I'll tell you.
506
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:26.559
It's listen I'm gonna include a link to joanmellon dot
507
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:28.599
com so you can go and read about the author
508
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:31.559
if you like a bit. I'm going to also include
509
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:36.039
the link to pre order the book, which is Blood
510
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.240
in the Water how the US and Israel conspired to
511
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.720
ambush the USS Liberty, which is the topic tonight. But
512
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.039
of course Joan's written about a great many other topics,
513
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:49.680
and as I said before, she's been on the show
514
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.480
quite a few times, and I always am happy and
515
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.160
learn something every time Joan is on the show.
516
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:58.480
I've heard got to mention the name, Chuck. We need
517
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:02.440
we need to mention the name of the publisher, Prometheus Books.
518
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:04.519
Prometheus is publishing this.
519
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:06.799
Okay, I didn't even notice that, to be honest, because
520
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.559
you've actually worked with several publishers over the years.
521
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:12.279
Yeah, no, I guess. And you know, whoever wants to
522
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.079
do a topic this publisher Prometheus Books. They like to
523
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.640
do books of historical events that are not solved, that
524
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:23.400
people don't know about, and this is a perfect book
525
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:28.000
for them because it's an open story. People still don't
526
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:31.880
know exactly what happened, and that's partly because they don't
527
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.799
want it. They're afraid of the material. It's very goes
528
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.559
right to the root of the American imperial enterprise, if
529
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.119
you want to put it that way, and the relationship
530
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.240
of US and Israel. It's like a taboo topic along
531
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:45.559
with the Kennedy assassination.
532
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.519
Well, there's a whole bunch of taboo topics in here.
533
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.599
First of all, to cast dispersions on Lyndon Bings Johnson
534
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:57.039
is apparently not in vogue at the moment, you know, because,
535
00:31:57.079 --> 00:32:01.079
as you said earlier in this discussion, his current official biographers,
536
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:03.839
what are they doing but whitewashing his entire existence.
537
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.119
And I know that I was very friendly in the past,
538
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:11.920
maybe in the eighties with Robert Carow. I even bought
539
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.599
at one point, I was invited to his birthday party
540
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.319
and I bought a cake, a huge cake in the
541
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:21.720
shape of the LBJ ranch with cows and horses and
542
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.680
cowboys and it was and it was a cake. So
543
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:29.160
I mean, I really I knew him quite well, And
544
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:32.599
at that time I didn't know any of this, and
545
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:36.440
I didn't really know until recently. Really he's a depth
546
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:39.519
to which he's covered up. But those people who have
547
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.759
read his most recent book realized he's distorted the Kennedy
548
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.359
He had to write about the Kennedy assassination. There was
549
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.039
no way around that. And there he gives the official
550
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:54.079
Warren Commission story, and that's just been't disproved over and
551
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:57.559
over again. So he just was terrified of the subject, obviously.
552
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.400
And I just wonder his new book volume would be
553
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:05.880
covering nineteen sixty seven and would be covering the USS liberty.
554
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:09.480
But I don't know if it will. Maybe we'll force
555
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:11.000
them into it just to look at this.
556
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:14.240
Well, maybe there'll there'll be a mention there, but I
557
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:18.480
can guarantee you it's not going to even remotely resemble
558
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:19.920
what you produced.
559
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:20.400
Here in this world.
560
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:24.960
No, but he is the object of He and Robert
561
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.880
Dallak as well. They want to rehabilitate Johnson as a
562
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:33.119
credible figure. And it's part of protecting the mainstream politics
563
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:35.920
of the country. If you have a president as a murderer,
564
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:38.640
as in the case of Lyndon Johnson, and I'm not
565
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:43.160
talking about his killing Kennedy here, he is really responsible
566
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.920
for the deaths of all those people, and many of them,
567
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.039
maybe half of them at least, that the planes had
568
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.799
been allowed to go and go to the site of
569
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:55.319
where the ship was being attacked. Some lives there certainly
570
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:59.240
could have been saved. So he abandoned American sailors on
571
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:03.640
him in the field of battle that they hadn't sort
572
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:10.559
of after themselves and got away with it, didn't he well?
573
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:14.639
And even when let me just say this, even the sailors,
574
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:19.159
the survivors actually filed a war crime report against Israel
575
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.840
in two thousand and four, which is something that when
576
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:24.760
you want to file that in the military, you have
577
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:29.239
to deposit it at the Pentagon. And they never answered.
578
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:33.639
It was never answered. But the petition itself does not
579
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:38.000
mention Lindon Johnson. And I asked the author of the
580
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.400
petition name who was one of the people in the
581
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.199
Air Force who actually was aware of the liberty incident
582
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:50.000
at the time, with Wyndon Johnson's name on this, as
583
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.960
he certainly committed war crimes, and he hung up. He
584
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.280
wouldn't talk to me, and he wouldn't see me. And
585
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:56.920
this was on the phone, and.
586
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:02.719
What could you do, right?
587
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:07.880
I actually have a PDF of something that is dated
588
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:13.000
and listed as war crimes committed against the US military
589
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:17.719
personnel June eighth, nineteen sixty seven, and it was submitted
590
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:19.199
to the Secretary of the Army.
591
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.880
Oh, yes you have. That's the petition that the Liberty
592
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:28.480
Veterans Association filed and the war crime petition.
593
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.800
That's right, right, what I'm referring to exactly, I'm going
594
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.440
to put a link to that along with this show,
595
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:36.480
and also it's in the live chat room. You can
596
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.800
read it for yourself. It was actually filed according to
597
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:44.239
this in two thousand and five. Let's see, actually on
598
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:49.639
June eighth, two thousand and five. Indeed, so wow, almost
599
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.880
forty years later, thirty eight years after the fact, they
600
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.800
filed this and as you said, it has not been answered.
601
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:04.199
Right, were answered and there was there have been books
602
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:08.519
about an international law that have you know, discussed all
603
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:14.320
the violations and including one by a person named Walter Jacobson.
604
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:18.400
He was in the Navy and uh Lisle the violations
605
00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:24.480
and war crimes and suddenly h to blow up the lifeboats. See,
606
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:28.440
they had released the lifeboats into the water because the
607
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:32.119
captain had actually in the midst of the attack, had
608
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.559
had ordered them to abandon ship, and so so then
609
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.440
they slew these were they let the lifeboats inflate in
610
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.440
order to get to save some people if the ship
611
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:46.199
is going to sink any lifeboats and the Israelis uh,
612
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:50.920
they they took the machine gun, the life rafts so
613
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:53.960
that they couldn't be used, and one life raft they
614
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:58.840
grabbed and they took it to as a souvenir back
615
00:36:58.880 --> 00:36:59.519
to Israel.
616
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.119
H I wasn't aware that they took a souvenir back
617
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:06.039
to Israel, but uh I did refer to that earlier.
618
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.320
And as far as I understand, there are multiple aspects
619
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:15.480
of the Geneva Conventions that that specifically prohibit attacking UH
620
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.079
lifeboats or things which are being utilized to save lives
621
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.679
that are unarmed on a battlefield. I could have swore
622
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:26.639
there were rules against this, Joan, maybe I'm mistaken.
623
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:33.840
Well, no, I think that this is definitely prohibited, prohibited. Yeah,
624
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:37.039
so you know, people do what they do, and I
625
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:38.760
think that, you know, I don't want to get into
626
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:42.280
the Israeli politics too much, but you know, I can
627
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:49.760
understand after the Holocaust, the Israeli position is what rules,
628
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.480
what rules of what humane rules of in law of
629
00:37:54.800 --> 00:38:00.599
in law? They certainly weren't didn't that the Nazi period
630
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.400
destroy all civilities and war.
631
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.159
We see unfortunately a lot of the stuff that was developed.
632
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:14.960
As you know, reasonable agreements between civilized nations allegedly came
633
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.559
after that. Right, A lot of it came after that,
634
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:21.239
including you know, things like bands on medical testing, on
635
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:27.159
you know, unwilling subjects, things like this, you know, a whole.
636
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:32.000
Round also agent rans and the napalm in order the
637
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:36.360
murdering of villagers in the Vietnam War. There are guilty.
638
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.559
But by the way, by the way, one one question
639
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:42.119
I do have for you. I once read that it
640
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:46.920
was white phosphorus which was utilized on the liberty. Uh
641
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:49.679
napalm may have also been dumped on it, But was
642
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:51.719
white phosphorus also used during.
643
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:52.840
The attack, not that I know of.
644
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:55.920
It was ny palm. A lot of canisters of napalm
645
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:02.199
and it ignites and makes fires. You no, you look
646
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:05.239
at the histories of this scene. I never heard of
647
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.239
why prosphorus, but maybe they meant nay palm when they
648
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:09.039
I don't know.
649
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:11.920
Well, I tell you there's a lot of My point
650
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.960
is there's a lot of confusion about this. And to
651
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.079
be honest with you, I know, the type of research
652
00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:21.639
that you've done, you probably clarify a bunch of things
653
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.280
that you're not even aware of in this book, Uh,
654
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.199
just letting you know that, because there's a lot of speculation.
655
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:29.239
You notice I said that there might have been Russians
656
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.760
who were present, who were you know, flying around, or
657
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:36.440
Soviet planes. I have also read that there were other
658
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:38.679
planes that happened to be in the area that might
659
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.360
have put eyes on it, who might have not been
660
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.280
aware of what was happening. I read about the Israelis
661
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:45.239
who refused to fire upon the liberty.
662
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:47.360
I've read about it.
663
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.079
Let's get back to the Soviets because I want to
664
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:54.239
add a point, and that is on the night after June,
665
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.880
the night of June, after the shooting is done, and
666
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.920
they're just wobbling around in the water, ship was listing,
667
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.840
you know, at ten degrees.
668
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:08.320
I think, well, let's let's paint the entire picture. It's crippled.
669
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:11.079
It's got a forty foot hole in it. You know,
670
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:16.119
the circumference were the you know, the diameter not sure,
671
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:20.039
but either way it's forty feet okay. Large hole. Power
672
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:22.239
is obviously challenged or gone.
673
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.440
And now the US is not coming, nobody's coming to help,
674
00:40:26.599 --> 00:40:29.920
and they're all alone out there. Nobody's coming. And on
675
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:36.000
the horizon appears a Soviet ship and the Soviet commander
676
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:41.320
in English sends a message to the Liberty do you
677
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:46.760
need help? And the Liberty answers no, thank you, and
678
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:51.880
the Soviets say, well, we'll stay here for a few hours,
679
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.119
you know, through the night, just in case you need us,
680
00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:00.239
and they did. Now these people who say, oh, we
681
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:03.000
don't need it, go away, these are people who were
682
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.679
educated in the Cold War, and the Cold War thinking
683
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:10.239
is Soviets are no good and we don't want anything
684
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:13.119
to do with your the enemy. But the fact is
685
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.679
that the Soviets behaved impeccably throughout the story. And I
686
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:21.960
traced the Soviet presence in the Mediterranean in relation to
687
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:24.679
the Liberty throughout the book, so I can tell you
688
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:29.440
they appear and the Soviets were doing the same thing.
689
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:33.320
They had surveillance ships, so they understood. And then there's
690
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:36.360
a whole story that I have about the Soviet submarine
691
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:41.039
that somehow on that submarine they developed a week of mercury,
692
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.800
and the men on that submarine were dying and sick
693
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:49.760
and throwing up whatever. And the captain wires Moscow and says,
694
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:51.800
I want to come back and bring these people to
695
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:54.599
the hospital, and they thought that this was so serious
696
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:59.960
a situation that they said no. So that's another aspect
697
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:03.719
does the story Well, yeah.
698
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:05.920
There's a lot of considerations there because the Soviets to
699
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.159
become entangled in this now could you know a lot
700
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.800
of things could be misconstrued or misrepresented later on. It's
701
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:15.880
actually kind of dangerous for that Soviet captain who have
702
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.719
even offered assistance given the uh you know, I mean
703
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:20.000
on the.
704
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:24.280
Night before when on the night after the attack, right, yes,
705
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:27.400
but I mean you could see they have a good
706
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.840
spy system too, and they could see what was going on.
707
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:36.840
Here's here's actually a question from a live listener, which
708
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.400
which I think is a good one. Were the men
709
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:43.519
that you spoke to that were on the ship that survived,
710
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:49.119
were they immediately aware that they were attacked by Israeli assets?
711
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.960
Yes, well that's a very good question. Well, on the
712
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:56.400
same day as the attack, late in the afternoon is
713
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.760
said they did they accepted responsible vility and they said
714
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.440
they did it and it was a mistake and it
715
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:05.039
was an accident, and they did so the same day
716
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:08.679
they took responsibility. They wanted to see. I think it's
717
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:11.679
it's when you look at the political thing. You realize
718
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:14.920
that they took the responsibility to take any any chance
719
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:18.639
away that the people could begin to blame the United
720
00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:23.400
States for this in some way. But they immediately stepped forward.
721
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:27.000
And they've kept quiet about this for all these years,
722
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:30.719
fifty years they have, and they've really covered for the
723
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:34.679
United States on this ship, on this business, and Israel
724
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.559
has covered for them. You see, it was no one's
725
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:41.039
neither of their interests to tell the truth. And the
726
00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:45.800
United States has worked hard on every president since Johnson
727
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:48.480
to keep up the covert cover up and not to
728
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:52.719
get into this. And many sailors have called their representatives
729
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.679
and senators and asked for help to get it. They
730
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:59.039
wanted calling for a new investigation because the first naval inquiry,
731
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:03.840
which is the only one, was fraud. And so Dave
732
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.800
was lived in Vermont at the time, so you know
733
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:11.159
who his United States senator was. So this United States
734
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:13.840
senator answers the phone as he was wont to do,
735
00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:18.159
and Bernie Sanders says, I don't, I don't want. I
736
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:22.679
can't get involved with that. And then the other senator
737
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:26.199
was Patrick Ley, and he also said I can't get
738
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:29.800
involved with that. Well, Dave then said to Bernie Sanders, Listen,
739
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.239
you don't have to do that, because I have I
740
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.360
know a rabbi who's very simple, sympathetic to the liberty,
741
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:41.840
and you can do it through him. And and and
742
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.320
Sanders said that isn't appropriate either. His phrase was, it
743
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:49.440
isn't appropriate, which is sort of kind of makes you
744
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.800
a little bit down on Bernie Sanders. And what if
745
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.159
you have to lose. He's an older man now, And
746
00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:57.000
why can't you tell the truth and why can't it
747
00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:01.079
stand up for people? And but of course if you do,
748
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:04.000
you know you're out of politics. Because his alias have
749
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:09.559
a very strong robby it's called APAC, AIPAC, and they
750
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:13.119
will destroy you and make you lose an election. One
751
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:14.960
of the people that happened to was the son of
752
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.960
Adelais Stevenson, Adle Stevenson, the one that ran against Prisident Eisenhower,
753
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.800
and he was at the time in the United States
754
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.440
Senate and he wanted to run for governor of Illinois,
755
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:29.079
and he ran for governor and he lost by a
756
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:33.199
tiny bit. But the point the APAC really came.
757
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:35.000
Out and he.
758
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:37.400
He lost.
759
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:41.519
Well, it's no strange coincidence or accident that even in
760
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:47.639
twenty sixteen, we observed every viable presidential candidate, including the
761
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:50.239
guy who's in office now, went before.
762
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:53.760
Apak and pledged for it. They would do the right thing.
763
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:57.320
See, those are very powerful, that's the American Israeli Political
764
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:04.519
Action Committee and the extremely powerful. And I have this
765
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.679
funny feeling that they certainly wouldn't want to pick at
766
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:08.239
this scam.
767
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:10.280
That's really the way that they look.
768
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:15.239
This is very important. And when I call various Israeli writers,
769
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:18.639
including one name Avenir Kohane, who had written the book
770
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:23.840
Israel and the Bomb so which they've had since the sixties,
771
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:26.800
it's another part of the story. And President Kennedy gets
772
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:31.239
involved with that anyway. I called him, I asked him
773
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:34.400
about the liberty and he said, it's a comedy of ARUs.
774
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:38.360
Comedy of the comedy of Wow.
775
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:41.239
You know, they see that's a weird thing because in
776
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:46.320
recent years, again the concept that maybe the Masade had
777
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:50.079
Kennedy killed is you know, is popularized in certain circles
778
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:53.719
at this point over the fact that there was a
779
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.920
problem with the you know, giving the nukes.
780
00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.840
Basically, I mean, let's just cut to the chase.
781
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.079
We didn't have to give them nukes. They have had
782
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:04.119
nukes since Kennedy's day.
783
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:05.639
Yeah.
784
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:10.199
Well, and not only nukes, you know, weapons, not just
785
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:13.480
the material but the actual weapons. They've had nuclear weapons
786
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:14.880
since nineteen sixty three.
787
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:15.519
Yeah.
788
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:15.840
Right.
789
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:17.519
But the point is right to.
790
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:23.079
President Kennedy, Yeah, she won't Paris, that is, it will
791
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.760
not be the first country in the Middle East to
792
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:31.119
get nuclear weapons. And of course they were, they had them. Well,
793
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:34.880
and that's also a taboo, another taboo subject. You're not
794
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:35.480
going to hear that.
795
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.159
Well, but that's why I bring it up right here
796
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:41.880
and now, because the bottom line is, look, I have
797
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:46.239
no qualms with bringing up realities. And people talk about
798
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:48.480
this as being a motive for why the Masade wanted
799
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:52.199
to kill JFK. The problem is there would be no
800
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:54.880
need for it because they already had this stuff.
801
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.119
I mean, we know, well, that's right, that's right. And
802
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:02.239
they also outsmarted Kennedy. And when he sent inspectors to
803
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:05.079
you know, there was kept to do inspections of these places.
804
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:09.320
They created new elevators, they build new buildings. They were
805
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:12.000
they were able. They said it was a holiday. Somehow
806
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.519
nobody got to see anything, right, so they didn't they
807
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:18.079
didn't need to kill him. They could out smart at
808
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:18.840
him and.
809
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:23.119
Them us right well exactly, So that's why that whole
810
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:24.920
assertion falls apart on its face.
811
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:29.800
See and there you go, guys. I mean, what can
812
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:32.800
I say except that this conversation goes on and on.
813
00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:35.519
And I'll tell you what. Somebody, and I don't know who,
814
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:37.360
but posted this show.
815
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:39.000
I don't know the guy.
816
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:45.000
He just decided for his own interests to post half
817
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:46.920
of my interview with Joan Mellan on YouTube.
818
00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:50.480
Other people could post my stuff on YouTube, but not me,
819
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.440
So you know, it's like other people can have PayPal accounts.
820
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:59.840
And I don't anymore. Anyway, it is what it is.
821
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:02.760
I put a link in the live chat room and
822
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:05.559
also with the show notes if you want to help
823
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.559
out and try and keep us running. I'm trying to
824
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.280
pay the small bills as they come in with other means,
825
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:13.320
but I used to do everything through PayPal, and now
826
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.000
a whole lot of loss, all your memberships, all that
827
00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:19.119
stuff is going to be gone. I'm not going to
828
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:23.000
be able to collect it. So you know, I'm not
829
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:25.559
going to cancel anybody's membership on the website. It's not
830
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:26.280
your fault that.
831
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:26.880
You can't pay it.
832
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.280
So the memberships are frozen until I come up with
833
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:34.199
a solution there. But anyway, I'm going to do a
834
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:40.480
separate podcast probably tomorrow night about this situation with PayPal
835
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:43.159
and a few other things before we do the Friday
836
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:46.400
night calling show that we always do, and I'll be
837
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:48.800
able to do it this week, but who knows how
838
00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:52.840
long that'll go on for. Also, I'll have a new
839
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:57.599
episode of the Age of Transitions ready to roll tomorrow
840
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:02.639
night on o'chelly dot com. No Uncles show, I think,
841
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:04.440
but I'm not certain of that.
842
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:05.880
Anyway.
843
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.320
We shall see what we see when we see it.
844
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.079
But I wanted to pay tribute to the great author
845
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.280
Joan Mellon, and I'm going to put the like I said,
846
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:19.039
the link to this guy's YouTube channel, you know, for
847
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:21.440
no other reason except that you guys can hear the
848
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:25.760
whole hour, at least the whole second hour of this
849
00:50:26.119 --> 00:50:29.880
discussion on the USS Liberty with the author Joan Mellon,
850
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:31.280
Blood in the Water.
851
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:33.960
There you go.
852
00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:39.519
So Joan was a friend and somebody I really appreciated. Oh,
853
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:42.480
in that final little story, right, I started talking about
854
00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:46.320
how she didn't show up for JFK and Dealey Plazid
855
00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:48.519
and all that and didn't show up for the answer
856
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.199
recording and wanted nothing to do with the research community
857
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:54.119
any longer. And I tried to have a private conversation
858
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:56.639
with her to get her to just do one last
859
00:50:56.719 --> 00:51:01.480
appearance on Jim Garrison, and you know, considering that we
860
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:03.719
had gone through the twenty seventeen time period that we
861
00:51:03.800 --> 00:51:07.480
all waited for and never got the documents on and
862
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:09.800
everything else, and I wanted her to come to Lancer
863
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:13.239
one more time after you know, Trump didn't release, then
864
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:18.440
Biden didn't release, then Trump again didn't fully release. And
865
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.760
we've gotten some new documents recently, that's true, but we
866
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:28.000
still don't have everything, and we still don't have full disclosure.
867
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:33.000
We still have you know, non communicative and non cooperative
868
00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:36.920
government agencies still in violation of the JFK Records Collection Act,
869
00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:41.880
covering you know, the CYA and also not the CIA,
870
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:44.760
the CYA if you will, of it all.
871
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:45.559
And doing that.
872
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:51.400
And for other reasons too, but anyway, who cares, right,
873
00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.360
I just wanted to say thanks to Joan, and like
874
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.320
I was saying, we were waiting for those documents, and
875
00:51:58.400 --> 00:51:59.800
I wanted her to do one last present.
876
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:02.719
But her whole thing was she kept telling.
877
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:06.239
Gabby and other people that were affiliated with Lancer that
878
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:09.280
she would only do a presentation at the conference if
879
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.000
she could talk about how stupid conferences were and how
880
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:16.559
counterproductive all this was because the community had become such
881
00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:18.360
trash because.
882
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:25.920
Judy Baker qa non trumpy people. She was sick of
883
00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:28.880
it all. And I get it.
884
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:34.039
I really do albeit Lancer this year, and we'll see
885
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.400
how it goes. If I make it to the end
886
00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:40.480
of the year and I'm still not homeless by then,
887
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:46.400
I'll go to Texas on somebody else's dime. If not,
888
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.320
I'll be probably gying to survive somewhere and not able
889
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:50.119
to be gotten hold of.
890
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.159
I guess we'll have to stay tuned and see what happens.
891
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:57.079
But before any of that goes on, I wanted to
892
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.239
pay tribute to Joan Mellon, who was a great ade author,
893
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:07.280
intelligent person, great researcher, and absolutely indispensable contributor to the
894
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:15.239
library of knowledge that is accessible to people regarding a
895
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:19.320
great many historical events, but especially those of the assassinations
896
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:24.199
of the sixties, the USS liberty, and various characters that
897
00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:30.239
are ancillary, tangential, or directly connected to those events.
898
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:34.800
So Thank you, Joan. I wish yet.
899
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:38.960
Stuck around just a little longer, and I guarantee she
900
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:42.000
had another five books worth of stuff like just laying
901
00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:46.159
around her house. That would have been better than ninety
902
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.119
percent of the authors that put out the junk they
903
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:56.280
put out. Anyway, much love, Joan, you will be missed.
904
00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:02.400
I am hereli o'celly of you. Those of you who
905
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.440
have supported me, have done what you can over these years.
906
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:08.000
You are the effect.
907
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:25.440
Good, the use expressed my callers, schools, there anyone else
908
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:27.039
who happens to get on the air of Jelly dot com.
909
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:29.239
Do not necessarily reflect the views of the Jelly dot
910
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.480
Com or Jumbo Jelly, and we are not responsible for
911
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:32.920
any stupidity which might ensue.
912
00:54:33.039 --> 00:54:33.320
Thank you.
913
00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:37.480
In Denial The Secret Wars with air strikes and Tanks
914
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:42.199
by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US
915
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:46.360
covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book
916
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:49.800
In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using
917
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:50.519
new files.
918
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:52.920
It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no
919
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.960
one has ever written about before. It shows why it
920
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:58.960
really failed and why the United States did not learn
921
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.320
from it. Also shows why other countries today are doing
922
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:05.800
secret operations with more success. This is the book that
923
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:10.280
puts what some want to deny into the light. In Denial,
924
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:16.760
secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhncock. For more information,
925
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:20.159
go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your
926
00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:23.760
copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital
927
00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:24.880
or physical form.
928
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:35.880
Well lation of book.
929
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:39.880
Say here it all.
930
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:10.920
Uncle. Do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said
931
00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:14.719
that an Asian secret society was going to dispatch ninjas
932
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:16.199
to take down the Illuminati?
933
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:19.800
Oh that's interesting, Yeah in the clutchroon.
934
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:21.679
Yeah did that ever work out too good?
935
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:22.079
No?
936
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:23.639
It didn't, did it?
937
00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:28.000
But here on o'chelly dot com radio network, things work
938
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.920
out a bit better, don't they much better?
939
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:34.639
Much is clear and understanding about the programs.
940
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:40.119
The programs are much clearer, getting live people into it.
941
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:44.599
They really have a good conversation going much better, much
942
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:45.360
better scene.
943
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.800
I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen
944
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:51.159
to the Ocelly dot com radio network.
945
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:54.719
I agree, it's straight to the point, straight talk, and
946
00:56:54.920 --> 00:57:00.400
I like that idea dot Com, h.
947
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:15.360
Wall Street Window, Dott.
948
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:24.800
Gold Silver, the Stock Market, Wall Street window dot dot.
949
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Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're not in deep enough.
950
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Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street.
951
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Windows on condos do com.
952
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Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood
953
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these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives
954
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you the benefit of his knowledge.
955
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Wall Street, streetdo dot dot go there, now go there,
956
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now go there now