WEBVTT
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Welcome, welcome to the Reykjavik Grape Grapevine offices for a drop-in, and this time I'm doing anything the introduction because we actually have a drop-in.
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This is uh sometimes we do uh podcasts where we host people by invite or by drop-in.
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We started this all with an amazing runner around around Iceland from Canada.
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Yeah.
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And now we're back to another drop-in also with a gentleman from from Canada.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, we had a guy on this spring who was trying to set the the world record for running around Iceland.
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Oh, yeah.
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Which he achieved.
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And he did it.
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Oh.
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Yeah, he did it.
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I I don't think anybody was I mean, uh, you know, I don't want to be uh, you know, saying anything too negative, but I don't think anybody was really keeping an eye on that record.
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But he broke it.
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He did, yeah.
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So he wasn't followed, he didn't have his fan base.
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Uh well people weren't too worried about it being broken, is what we're saying.
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It was like eh.
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Oh, it's that that's that's a thing.
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Yeah, so he did it in kind of an astonishingly short amount of time.
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But yeah to the project at hand.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But this is an actual drop-in with G, Scott McLeod, uh, who uh wandered into our office yesterday with our with our journalist Larry Jaffey, because they're two rock journalists, yeah, and you happen to be a major rock photographer from Montreal.
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And and uh as as Yonder was Yon was pointing out, probably a cousin of mine somehow.
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And you're here doing an amazing project on human rights and photography and and and rock and roll, which uh we were talking about as you were as you were coming in about the uh the current controversy between Mac Lamore and Ed Sheeran because uh I'm a re I I moved to Iceland from Seattle where Macklemore is a little bit of an icon, and he really he really does help the local music community.
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Uh he's not thought of as all that uh innovative or uh politically active, but compared to Ed Sheeran, whoa, he's a dynamo.
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He got thrown off of the Ed Sheeran concert for saying the words free Palestine, which I guess among some circles is really controversial uh to Ed Sheeran, who uh you know watery gruel comes to mind to describe his everything.
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Okay.
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Um sorry for all the Ed Sheerhands, sheerheads out there, but you're you're of course you're talking about tomorrow you're gonna be at 12 tonar or 12 tonar, um a major records uh store and coffee shop uh and the main place for all hosted events r regarding music uh in town right now, um to show human rights and photography and how essentially the rock music once was used, or popular music was once used to talk about things that mattered.
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Indeed, yeah.
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And also uh I it was an entertainment weekly called the Montreal Mirror who I was working for at the time, and it was 1988, and there was that series of concerts, you know.
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Uh Human Rights Now was the one I photographed, but we know uh there was a Conspiracy of Hope tour, which is also affiliated with uh Amnesty International and Live Aid.
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Uh so there's a bit of a trend of that going on, and I got the opportunity to go there as the photojournalist to photograph um Bruce Springsteen, Tracy Chapman, Sting, uh Yusuna Door, and Peter Gabriel, and then two Quebec uh performers, Daniel Lavoie and uh Michel Rivard.
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Uh so I guess during that tour, every city they stopped off and they would invite local musicians who would sing in their local language as well.
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Um and it they would at the first opening song was uh Get Up Stand Up by Bob Marley, and it was uh the celebration of the 40th anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights, which was actually drafted by a Canadian, one of the first drafts.
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Uh so yeah, it was not lost on me that experience, and uh it had a powerful impact, I think, uh, that day.
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And um that seemed to be the narrative or the type of musicians I was interested in as a photojournalist at the Mirror at that time.
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Uh so I did pursue Irish bands, uh Canadian bands, and and other international bands or individual singers, and uh leaned into their lyrics more profoundly, more deeply, wanted to, you know, uh everyone from Billy Bragg to Michelle Schacht to uh Leonard Cohen, you know.
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I saw oh sorry, I I love the photo of Billy Bragg in here.
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Yes, uh with the Lick Busch sticker.
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Yeah.
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I just um pe people who listen to us or or read our magazine might not be surprised that I'm uh obsessed with Billy Bragg.
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But um yeah, capturing him, he's not the most photogenic of people.
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I I'm one to speak.
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I'm also not, but I just think it's a it's cool to capture his uh energy the way he was.
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He was pretty funny.
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That was uh one of the McGill rooms, uh McGill University in Montreal, and he was touring with Michelle Shocht, in fact, and he flipped his guitar around.
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It was when Bush Sr.
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was running for election and you know the British jab, you know, we're gonna let this boston, you know.
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Yeah.
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So um, anyways, he he had a lot of chuckles, very funny guy, very accessible.
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Uh I recently saw him about uh two months ago in Montreal.
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He's doing another tour.
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Right.
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And uh still got it.
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People are singing along with the lyrics, and uh he doesn't seem to have gone off track in terms of his politics and his views.
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No, he's the real deal.
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I agree.
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Uh what I fascinated by your brief discussion of the Montreal Mirror, right?
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The Montreal Mirror Um is uh this uh this belief that music should matter, and I feel like if you go north of the border, it's a little bit more obvious that that's a part of the culture than it is if you just go south, right?
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Um Do you feel that a little bit, the difference in cultures as you head down to New York, New York City, and it's uh maybe the the music in Alphabet City doesn't exactly have the same I say Alphabet City because as you get to the bottom of Manhattan you get the music that you can afford to get into.
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Yes.
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But uh there was a time when you could afford to get into hearing somebody talk about something that mattered, and and more and more the same clubs that I played as a songwriter, uh uh they no longer they're more about they literally will say they're about exposure and about getting on the on the gravy train of uh maybe YouTube or Spotify is the weapons manufacturer Spotify, right?
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Um but whereas in Canada I feel like you know we have this guided by voices kind of always in the spotlight.
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There's always a tradition of uh lyrics mattering or content mattering more than style.
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Yeah, I could say that.
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You know, Len Cohen, first we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin, you know, his album The Future, uh, and and further in his romance stories as well.
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I mean, he was a pretty b broad poet.
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Yeah.
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Um and also yeah, during the punk uh new wave movement, I remember in Montreal, there were a lot of bands that uh were you know striking up a pose for something that they were against or for.
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Um that era you were gonna say something.
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Sorry, yeah, you we were talking about 88, but at what point did you start photocotographing?
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Um high school.
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I was uh the the yearbook photographer.
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Yeah, but you look 10 year than me.
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I have no idea when this would be.
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Uh okay, so I I was in high school in the 70s.
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I graduated in 82, um, 61 now.
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So uh born in 65, and uh myself.
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So you were photographing in the 80s in the at the turn of the 80s, yeah.
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So you were there for the punk, great punk movement, and then and I don't know what it was like in Canada, but like so you're are the Ramones coming through?
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Yes, absolutely.
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We had a famous club in Montreal called the Foufon Electric, which means uh electric ass cheeks.
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Uh the translation.
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It still exists, still there.
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And this is we need to get this on our travel itinerary.
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Electric ass cheeks?
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Just Montreal in general.
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I I I feel deeply embarrassed that I've never been.
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But Montreal features so strongly in everything I read because yeah, as you said.
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So the Ramones came through electric ass cheeks.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And and other, I mean, you you name a punk band or uh there was a strong uh love for metal, for punk, alternative.
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I mean, all forms of music and being a bilingual you know culture that Canada is, Montreal is sort of like this epicenter where you have not any multiculturalism, like I grew up around a lot of people that were trilingual and multiple languages.
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So there was these crossovers of of the European culture coming in and other, you know, from other parts of the world.
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So there's a uh not only do I say in in terms of menu of food, was there a fusion, but also in the music.
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So people could like Daniel Lanois, who produced U2.
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Oh, he comes up again.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So Daniel Lanois was, you know, on uh Francophone, uh French Canadian, and uh he he sang in French, you know, uh he had a famous song um that was called uh it was a tobacco picking song called Au Marie.
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And that is traditionally based in the Quebec style of singing call and answer, yeah, but then you know produced Gabriel and you too and and go in this other realm.
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So but as a songwriter himself, he he really crossed, he was able to create bring that bilingual uh narrative in uh and culture, which was fascinating.
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He I've seen him many times, beautiful, beautiful uh performer or singer-songwriter.
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I feel so ignorant.
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I had no idea that I know his production.
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One of my favorite records is Lanois of all things, the Neil Young record he did, which I should be yeah, I always have these boomer references that I always like this older stuff.
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But um I did not realize he's a great bilingual artist himself.
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Absolutely.
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Okay, which which record should I get from uh from Daniel Lanois?
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Okay, the his Wait, did I say it right?
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I always say Lanois, but it's yeah, yeah, Daniel Lanois.
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Okay.
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I can do the Quebec and I can do my Metropolitan French or uh Quebec French, which is a real patois, it's a real yeah it's like we're the Texans a bit of of the Franco Folie, I guess you could say.
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Okay.
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Yeah, we got some interesting expressions.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So which record do I get for the first one?
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I would get his first one, Akezi.
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Okay.
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Yeah, that to me, uh guys uh uh you two play on it and other, and you know, yeah, that's strong.
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You two play on his first record.
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Of course they do.
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Wow.
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Well it's it's a it's a keeper.
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To me, it's sort of like part of the Canadian songbook to me.
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You know, it it's got such strong roots in Canadian story and and French Canadian story.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.
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And your Canadian songbook I'm I l I'm obsessed with the American songbook.
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But is it go a different direction?
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Like what are what else are the so that are they all often multilingual, the Canadian songbook?
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Um no, it's it's pretty broad.
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I mean, there's uh obviously a very strong, you know, we were talking about Neil Young earlier and and uh like Gordon Lightfoot.
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Gordon Lightfoot, you just took the word out of my mouth.
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Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
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Gordon was uh he's uh highly, highly regarded, and uh and others, Cohen as well, you know.
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Right.
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Who you say, Lynn?
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I'd never heard I never heard anybody s shorten it to Lynn.
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Well Lynn, yeah, right.
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Did you talk to him when you were photographing?
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Oh my god, yeah.
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Uh that's what you did?
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I did, yeah.
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Um this is weird.
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Okay, so it's my first job.
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I just got hired at the mirror, and the editor uh said, Okay, Scott, you and Martin are gonna go photograph Leonard Cohen.
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It's 1988.
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I'm your man tour at such and such a hotel.
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And I'm like, Leonard Cohen.
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He says, Yeah, it's gonna be so we need a cover shot and we want to insert for the article.
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I'm like, okay.
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And I was a bit, you know, intimidated.
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Uh we arrive at the hotel and he's out in the terrass and he's wearing the you know, the nice jacket with the beautiful shirt and sitting there having a smoke, and he had a bottle of Advil in front of him.
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I'm like, hmm, maybe a bit hung over from the night before.
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Who knows?
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Because I know he, you know, he liked to mix it up a bit.
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Right.
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So we removed the Advil bottle and Martin starts interviewing him, and I'm squatting down beside him on the edge of the table.
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And I just come back from Dublin.
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I had a Celtic Cross tattoo done in Montreal, and uh, you know, reclaiming my Scottish-Irish heritage a bit uh by self-abuse.
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And uh so Len leans over and he looks, he says, Oh, Celtic Cross, are you Scottish-Irish?
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I said, I'm both uh Mr.
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Cohen.
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You know, I didn't call him Len.
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Right.
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And uh, anyways, he goes, uh, oh, I just came back from Dublin.
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I said uh as I did, I said, and he says, Yeah, yeah, a friend of mine got a tattoo just like that.
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You want a drink?
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And I go, uh, it's 10 in the morning, Mr.
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Cohen.
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Uh, we're working.
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He says, Ah, it doesn't matter.
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Every time I do an album, I do this drink called the Red Needle.
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I make it for all the band members.
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I said, The Red Needle, what's that?
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And he says, Well, um, cranberry juice, tequila, some ice, a bit of fruit.
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Anyways, don't worry, I'll get them to make them for us.
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And the drinks come.
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And we're sitting there knocking back the drinks and you know, giving us we'd like we're not like Rolling Stone or Spin Magazine or anything.
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Gives us the time of day, total gentleman.
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And I think he's feeling a little better.
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I think the maybe the hangover subsiding a bit.
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Yeah.
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And then uh I it's analog film.
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I have one last roll.
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I I got my shots, uh, the insert and the cover, and I just, Mr.
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Cohen, would you be inclined to just could we like charge out on Prince Arthur Street?
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And I just want to shoot 36 in a row of you moving.
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Let's do it.
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He just gets up with a big grin on his face.
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I put some of them in the book, and he just charges out smiling, and 36 shots, 36 seconds, done.
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And we had I had my Leonard Cohen moment, and uh so and I took the uh luxury of or liberty of calling him Lynn.
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Uh when I tell that story, but he he was a gentleman, he really, really nice, covered, paid the drinks, of course, and uh and I I mean that's that experience was kind of legend, and uh I live I it got me uh I guess motivated to to pursue photography uh as a photojournalist uh in a deeper way because and did a deep dive into his music and his books and poetry and stuff.
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So and it pays off with Leonard Cohen.
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I I feel like if you can stick it through that first, you know, the first time you're like, what is going on here?
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And then well the with great music, right?
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It's the the best music for me is stuff that I initially reject and then come back to.
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And I feel like Leonard Cohen has that depth where and also that you have to earn it.
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Yeah, admittedly, I I would say the same.
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I didn't know enough about him, and having that first encounter with you know, genuine encounter, like, oh no, I have to know this man.
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I have to do a deeper dive and know his story.
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That's true of a lot of my favorite Canadian musicians, by the way.
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I feel like obviously Neil Young, I did not the first time I was like, What is this?
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Joni Mitchell's the exception, yeah.
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But yeah, uh and guided by voices would be uh immediate rejection and then come back.
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Interesting.
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What is the what is the status of the band in either Canadian or the band?
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Uh yeah, because they're all Canadian, except for uh Leon Hellman.
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That's right, the drummer.
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Um yeah, they're pretty archetypal.
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Uh I mean, uh Robbie Robinson, he came to my neighborhood actually, one of the schools, and uh he did a talk just I guess a year or two before he passed away.
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He had just done his autobiography.
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Oh, that ceremony book, yeah.
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Yeah, so you paid and it they're all signed by him.
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Uh you couldn't go see him obviously after his talk and everything, but it was he was great.
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He was very uh relaxed, very candid, uh very forthcoming.
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Um, and uh I I so that was kind of nice to see him in person and uh because I'd never seen the band uh live myself.
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But even though you were covering you were shooting from 80, you didn't get to see any of the yeah, I guess in the 80s and 90s I was kind of leaning more, even though I know Lanwa and him worked together as well, and he did some great uh collaborations with Aboriginal singers.
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I don't know if you followed those two albums, those were phenomenal.
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:04.320
So I was a huge fan, but I I never got the opportunity to see him live as a solo artist, and the band, yeah, I missed that, you know.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.120
Well, yeah, that's what YouTube is for.
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:08.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:09.600
I guess so.
00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:10.480
Sorry.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.840
So you you're starting, you get these great punk bands.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:23.120
I mean, I assume because we were talking briefly before that you did seem to have an interest in punk a little bit, and that's kind of a natural uh punk and Leonard Cohen, who's like somehow the punk of all f songwriters.
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:23.519
Yeah.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:28.320
Uh and then we have kind of a multilingual uh entry.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:35.120
And speaking of punk, we're of course blocking off the window because uh people are destroying the streets out front.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:42.639
Um and then we have this eventual buildup to this great political moments in music, right?
00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:44.559
What's the first of this of the series?
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:50.879
You mentioned three three major uh political activists, activist moments you were involved in as a photographer.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.279
Yeah, I well that seeing um human rights now.
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:56.639
Uh human rights now, yeah.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:03.519
Yeah, when I saw Peter Gabriel sing Biko, I was like, you know, to borrow the Jewish expression, verklempt, you know, it was like wow.
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:03.840
Yeah.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:09.519
And uh he was also singing with Yasun Nodur, the African uh, you know, uh performer as well.
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.720
And uh he put his fist up in the air, and I just caught that moment.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.279
It's that's why I choose that photo for the cover.
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:15.680
Yeah.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:30.240
And uh it it it it wasn't lost, you know, on and he's wearing some traditional dress, some call it maybe cultural appropriation, but you know, he was one of these first guys to really push world music and highlight a lot of uh musicians that otherwise would go unnoticed.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:30.799
Right.
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:35.119
You know, real world I think it was real world records was his uh label.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:48.960
Um and uh then I I think I would say um Tracy Chapman, when she did Fast Car, and this is kind of the beginning of her career, she had like a five-minute standing ovation.
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.279
And she just couldn't play guitar.
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.200
She was really moved by the the public response.
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.119
Yeah, it's hard not to react to her songs, right?
00:17:59.359 --> 00:17:59.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:01.039
Very, very powerful.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.599
It's so powerful that I understand why she wouldn't perform.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:14.640
Because there's a stuck when you watch these these performances, that's another YouTube obsession, the deep dives on on things people like Tracy Chapman, and you understand it maybe is too intense to keep performing live.
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:28.960
She even came out recently for when it was re-released and performed with the I think Nashville songwriter who got up and re-released her song and the crowd went crazy, and you're like, uh wow, this is so positive, it's almost overwhelming.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.720
Paying it forward and yeah, the next generation.
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.440
And then third, um we were talking about Billy Bragg earlier.
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:42.480
Uh when I saw him uh at uh McGill University with Michelle Shocht.
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.839
Uh I mean he was I didn't really have knowledge of his music either prior.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:54.960
I I knew some some of his tunes, but he was very, very funny and a great storyteller between his songs.
00:18:55.119 --> 00:19:03.039
So he he was uh and I I I I was mentioning earlier also that I I saw him two months ago uh in Montreal, and he has not changed.
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:08.880
He's on the same course, the same path, very committed to his his uh politics and his views.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:17.200
Now we go to the the dark end of because I'm always wallowing in darkness and apathy, not uh, and just like where how can I get negative on this?
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:39.119
But it feels like with this music track and with like this uh Montreal Mirror and and the way they were covering Things That Matter, I feel like progress affected people north of the border more than south of the border, and to the point where you get this current movement where you have the leader of the Middle Nations as your prime minister speaking up in times of conflict.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:55.920
Um do you feel like do you feel like there's a line there of celebrating culture, celebrating multinationalism, uh being kind of bold-faced to it, and then and then having this moment where now you you have the prime minister who's speaking up on behalf of Middle Nations?
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:15.119
If Kearney's done anything in Canada now, and I know many Canadians agree to this, the whole elbows up and all the tariffs, and you know, we're not gonna be the 51st state, I would say he he has unified a lot of the provinces because internally in Canada there's you know issues of of trade and stuff like that.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:24.559
And what it's done, it's it's kind of created solidarity in all the provinces, and the country really feels strongly that you know we should be able to stand up for our own.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.519
We should be able to expand our our our market and our trade relations and so forth.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:34.640
So he has really taken on a positive um uh status.
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.640
I I you know, I don't want to generalize.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.599
There's always going to be the naysayers, but he's got some problems.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:43.279
Some people talk about some of his attitudes towards fossil fuels not being ideal, right?
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.680
Yeah, putting pipelines in, like, oh, what's this?
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.359
He uh he was supposed to be an environmentalist.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:47.759
Right.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.240
So you there always will be a kickback for sure.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:21:02.240
And uh but I can't I don't know uh politically who would have been like Polyev, his rival, uh, would have not been competent enough to deal with uh the issues of tariffs and Trumps, in my opinion.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:02.960
Right, right, right.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:42.640
But uh you know, he was governor of Bank of Canada, governor of the Bank of England, Kearney, so yeah, he's no newbie, he understands things, comes from very humble beginnings in uh northern Alberta and it it's been quite almost almost shocking from abroad to see somebody who has the profile of a classic technocrat uh be the most articulate and brave sort of voice in amongst the Western leaders in terms of you know explaining our current situation or the world's new order as it is.
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:44.079
You heard him speak at Davos.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.519
Oh yes, absolutely.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.240
I have like my hair went up, and like wow.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.279
Yeah, I mean it was apparently he wrote it himself.
00:21:53.519 --> 00:22:02.960
He did, uh I was told, but it was very brief, concise, and to the point, and it was a Perfect perfectly understandable speech.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:23.519
And he was just kind of you know that's also another thing, you know, y do you uh do you necessarily expect you know a quote unquote technocrat to kind of deliver a speech like this in such a plain, understandable way, mm-hmm using kind of always always the right metaphors and references that kind of everybody can get without you know dumbing it down at all.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.640
It was a incredible thing to watch from from afar.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:51.759
Yeah, and he does possess these qualities uh in a like a a technocrat, banker slash empath, you know, who says that he's interested in in in environmental issues and so forth, his wife equally, and and that he can deliver these concise messages in a clear fashion, you know, not uh cafe fe or you know uh you know uh word stumblings and stuff like that.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:23:12.559
He's and and it doesn't a level of humility, like you know, Canadian humbleness uh which uh ever every politician has to wear a certain costume and and you know there's methods of your delivery, but the salient points, like you're saying, uh I think that is given uh a level of hope in Canada and hopefully further.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:13.119
Yeah.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.039
Uh so we were inspired.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:22.000
Yeah, I mean his directness is something we've very much not seen with our Western leaders over the past decades.
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:23.839
So it's like a really fresh breath.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:24.160
Yeah.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.279
I mean we can read Breath of Fresh Air, sorry.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.680
Oh, you did stereo, perfect.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.039
It's it's been like an incredible thing.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:47.039
We've had a lot of long hours this summer together in the same room trying to write this paper and uh we now speak and well I would like to take this opportunity to thank you guys for your for the grapevine and your commitment to it.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:54.559
It's it's a great I have the two copies since I've been here uh beside my bedside and uh enjoying the articles and you do good work.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:54.880
Oh, thank you.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.559
You guys are good writers.
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:57.440
Thank you very much.
00:23:57.680 --> 00:23:58.319
And Larry too.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.839
What a fabulous thanks to him.
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.039
I'm here today.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:06.000
But uh uh We stumbled on to having a journalism professor come and write with us.
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.039
Oh, you're me you're making records, great.
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:10.240
What did you do before you made records?
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:11.440
Journalism professor.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:13.119
Hey, we have coffee here.
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:14.799
Uh maybe you should stay here.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.920
Um talk about Mark Carney and his plain speech approach and technocrat.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:33.599
I think this is uh reminds me of one of the great things I love about uh Canada and uh the upper Midwest, maybe, is that uh you're in a place where the environment will kill you if you're not if you mess around, right?
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:39.279
Uh you stop posing as much as is noted in the Martin Scarcese documentary uh about Bob Dylan.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:46.079
You know, you can't really be a rebel in in northern Minnesota because if if you change your clothes too much, you're gonna die from the cold, right?
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.759
So the pose goes away and the and the flannel comes on.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.599
Um I was looking at your photos a great deal and I and I noticed not a lot of gimmicks in those photos either, right?
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:57.200
It's all about just raw analog.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:59.039
It's what I saw is what you got.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:00.960
You know, I there's not a lot of doctoring.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:08.720
I hired an intern to scan them because they were from my archive, uh, their negs and some um slides, the E6 we called it back in the day.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.720
So she did some a bit of color correction and clean up the dust and whatever.
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.319
But yeah, I wanted them to be raw.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.119
I wanted to really reflect that era, that analog era.
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:26.880
And uh I mean, I they didn't have a dark room at the Montreal Mirror at the day, so I was an asset to them because I had my own dark room and I could process my own film.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:34.160
You had to bring your your contact sheet, you would sit there with the editor, and he would add a wax crayon, and he would circle, yeah.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.960
I'd love this one of Cohen, or I love that one of uh you know Haro's flowers or whoever it was.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.920
And you have to go back to your dark room, you have to print it out.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:43.759
So the immediacy wasn't there.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.319
You really there was a process that was different.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.279
It took more time.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.960
There were more discourse, more uh interactions together.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.319
Uh wasn't online either.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.759
So it really is just a it was another time, another era.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:15.359
And a friend of mine's a producer at uh at uh the CBC, uh your equivalent of NPR um in the States, and she she bought my Leonard Cohen photos, the 36 shots of him on the street, because they had an exhibition shortly after he passed at the Musée d'Arcontemporain, the our contemporary museum in Montreal.
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.720
And I bumped into it at her party and I said, uh Carrie, what are you working on?
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:25.920
Her name's Carrie Haber, and she said, Oh, I'm we're doing a walking tour of Leonard Cohen's um short Montreal and Long Montreal.
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:27.519
I'm like, Oh wow, that's really strange.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.440
I just found these photos in my archive.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:33.920
No one's seen them, and they're of him walking on Prince Arthur Street, and she says, Scan them for me tomorrow.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:34.559
Send them.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:44.160
So they had them edited by this woman, Kathleen Weldon, who worked at the film board, National Film Board of Canada, where I collaborate on other documentary and animation works.
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:59.039
And this beautiful intro is you download the app, and it's just Leonard, you know, after the Red Needles walking around, and uh they had the mountain with the angel and the cross uh Mount Royal is a iconic uh sort of uh geography in in Montreal.
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:01.599
And uh I mean I was really touched and they paid for them.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:05.599
I probably made more money selling those photos than I did my whole time working at the mirror.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:06.319
Oh, right.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.119
And uh, but just she said, when are you gonna do a book?
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:10.240
You know, when are you gonna do this?
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:14.319
And uh so she gave me the right prompt to do it.
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:16.640
And I have to say, I've been working with Amnesty International.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:23.519
I'm gonna be in Berlin in March for their big photo um uh uh festival that they have in Berlin.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:28.319
And Amnesty have jumped on board and they said, We really want this because of the rise of the right.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:28.960
Yeah.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:33.440
Another woman I worked with, uh, I did a documentary on the Cold War in Berlin.
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.880
She said, You gotta do this.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:39.680
We're we're troubled by what's going on in Germany, especially with their dark past and their history.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:44.559
Not that my book is gonna make any massive difference or anything, but it's an effort, you know.
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.119
And I said, Um I will humbly abide, please.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:48.799
You know, let's do it, let's work on that.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:50.559
So that's a bit of the ethos.
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:56.000
I I if I go back to those Montreal Mir days, that was something we really were in it together.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:02.319
We felt that it was really important to share our skill sets, and that's that's why I see here at Grapevine.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.319
I see you guys are really collectively together.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:06.640
Your discussions in the kitchen were phenomenal.
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:12.799
You know, even it was about Eddie and uh and other, but uh you know this is important work you're doing.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.960
We we have to continue to do this work.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.200
Yeah, that's why, yeah, that's what I fascinated by the book.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.559
So uh and sorry, go ahead.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.839
Yeah, yeah, like I I if you don't mind, I almost wanted to talk about the different project of yours.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.400
Oh, yeah.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:52.319
And it kinda easy to pivot from Mark Carney's uh version of of the world uh and his Tao speech, and perhaps that project, because uh you know, in 2026 the he is making uh an effort of trying to build a relationship with what he calls the middle powers, but also with the you like with Europe.
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:59.119
And we talked about it yesterday that we were talking about like there that there's this connection between Iceland and Canada.
00:28:59.279 --> 00:28:59.920
Yeah.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:10.400
Which well, I mean, you can put the the whole thing that uh Icelanders well, old Norse people found found quote unquote North America a thousand years ago.
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.599
That's kind of in there, but it's just backstory and nothing came of it.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:23.119
But uh there's a migratory period uh from Iceland to Canada in the eighteen seventies onwards and into the twentieth century.
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:24.000
Gimli, yeah.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:26.799
Gimli, yeah, Gimli and and the area around Winnipeg.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.200
And the fantastic poet Stefan Stefansen.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:29.759
Oh yes.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.319
Which uh you th you celebrate as Canadian too.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:33.759
Stefan Stefanson.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:34.559
Absolutely, yeah.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:39.599
Which is which he's so he's one of the few writers who is celebrated in both countries after life.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.960
Yeah, he he was uh he hung out with my great grandfather.
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:43.759
No kidding.
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.480
That's great.
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:46.160
Wow, pump pulse too.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.720
Never mind.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.920
And he's a fantastic poet.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:48.640
I mean he really is.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:49.839
Oh great and yeah.
00:29:50.400 --> 00:30:07.200
But there is but you know, talking about connections, I mean, there is uh historically, if we talk about Iceland, there is this, you know, old connection with with Greenland and then with North America, but predominantly there is this connection with the Hebrides, Norway, um, Ireland.
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:07.839
Yeah.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:19.200
And kind of this at some point it was described to me that you kinda have to think about Iceland, the Faroe Islands, Norway, the Hebrides, and Ireland as like a on like a highway, like a sea highway.
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.480
It was like there was so much traffic back and forth.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:30.799
And we also kind of talked about we I was mentioning my love of historical fiction sometimes to kind of get you into the place.
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:36.640
But you have this great project from is it last year or it was published last year, right?
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.400
Uh this was published last year, yeah.
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.880
And Indigo Ioana Saga.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.880
So this is based on an archaeological find.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:47.359
That's right.
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.759
I think in 1938 during a road construction in the East, if I remember correctly.
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:57.359
Yeah, that's right.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:00.960
And you just conjure up your her whole life story.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:01.920
Yeah, I know.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:11.519
I have an American friend, she just published a book and we support each other's efforts, and she says, You created that from from that archaeological find you saw at the museum in Iceland.
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:13.920
I said, Yeah, it was the National Museum of Iceland.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:32.400
And I had done my first residency here in 2017 at the SIM uh facility, and I just remember walking in there and seeing her bones uh she was kind of buried on her side, and all the jewelry, uh the oval brooches, and so forth.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.240
And I thought, Well, who is this woman?
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:35.279
What is her story?
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:54.720
And I started reading some of the plaques and talking about the Hiberno Norse, which is my ancestry, and how, you know, when the Vikings were fleeing uh the feuding kings in Norway, they were stopping off to refuel and restock their ships, but also taking wet women as wives or more probably slaves.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:03.680
And uh so Ireland, Scotland, uh th to Orkney, Shetlands, and all, like you said, uh that transatlantic migration across.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:05.519
And I was just fascinated by these stories.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.920
My grandfather used to talk about that quite a bit.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.000
And um uh our our name, McLeod, kind of plays into my grandfather said you it's Norse.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.119
There m MacLeod's not a it's a Celtic name, you know, it's been Gaelicized, Anglicized.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:33.759
And uh we had this exhibition at the McCord Museum in in Montreal, and uh it was called Full Circle First Contact, and it was about the discovery of uh from Greenland to to uh uh Newfoundland, which is rooted in the Vinland saga.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:35.519
And I love that saga as a young man.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.039
I used to read it all the time.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:42.079
And uh I was standing there talking to an Icelander actually, he was working at Ubisoft in Montreal.
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.480
He's about my hike, tattoos, blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, the you get the picture.
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:55.200
And uh the ambassador to Iceland walks over and he said he starts speaking to him in Icelandic, and then he looks over at me and starts speaking Icelandic to me.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.680
And I go, No, no, I'm Canadian, sorry, I don't speak Icelandic.
00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.039
And he says, Ah, what is your name?
00:32:59.119 --> 00:32:59.680
I say, Scott.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.680
No, no, no, your surname, and I go, Mukhlad, ah, Jotr, you're one of us.
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:04.400
Ha ha ha ha.
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.559
And then he walks away in like etymology.
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.799
Son of the ugly wolf from the Orknean sagas, you know, like oh my goodness.
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.680
So I guess it was a bit of a joke name that you would give the ugly son, uh, Jotur.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.920
But I'm probably not pronouncing it properly.
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.640
Pretty complex reference to leave you with without explanation.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.680
Wander off.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:22.400
Yeah.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.519
And the and the Ubisoft guy with our beards in her hand, going, What was that?
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:29.200
You know, but it was fun.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.880
So it's a deep dive.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.519
I just have, you know, there's these crazy synchronicities.
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:42.160
So I take the residency, I see this woman's character, and for it it took I decided to do something called the Norse Women's Saga series.
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:47.039
So I highlighted women in the Norse sagas, collaborated with the National Film Board of Canada.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:34:02.400
It's a three-part series, starting the leaving of Norway, coming to Iceland, and she's one of the principal characters, um, historic fiction, as you said, but rooted in the sagas, and then Eric the Red, Ice uh Greenlander Saga, and then the Vinland saga.
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:18.480
So I did what you described, the trans migration of North Atlantic and uh to Canada, and how uh a lot of my work with the film board is is uh licensed and distributed through the school system, library system in Canada.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:22.400
And it's to give these stories to to young people, older people as well.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:29.119
But uh the importance is is uh conveying you know what how these people lived, how they migrated, why did they migrate?
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:33.039
So those questions were implanted by my grandfather Bert McLeod.
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:35.199
It was like, where are we from?
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:36.480
Why did we leave?
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:40.000
What happened when you came to whatever place you migrated to?
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:47.599
And that was became sort of the mission statement for doing these three episodes on Iceland, Greenland, and Newfoundland.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:49.280
And it was an incredible journey.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:56.079
It's a 10-year journey, and uh it was wonderful to work with Turfy Tulinus, he's a professor at the University of Iceland.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:11.039
So I've shown all three films now there, and uh, I've donated the books to your central library, to uh the university library, and uh also uh naturally the museum given that's where the uh artifacts were found uh or placed now.
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:27.840
No, I I find this fascinating, but it's also like uh yeah, I I I guess if if there's been a decent enough uh relationship, slavery or sight, I guess it's uh I guess now is a good good time to revisit that.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:28.159
Yeah.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.320
To remember that we've all had a relationship across the Atlantic.
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:35.519
Well and that we should perhaps do more of it.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.239
Maybe Carney's bringing us back in a sense.
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:40.800
We're going the other direction now and exactly.
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.480
I mean, the way things are going, we might need uh a sailboat to get across.
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:52.480
But yes, yeah, there's there's a lot I love in what you were saying, but one thing about thinking about like where we come from.
00:35:52.639 --> 00:36:12.079
Um you and I were talking before while we were grabbing coffee about uh in Montreal specifically, discovering uh burial sites, mass burial sites of Irish immigrants from from well, uh depending on your politics, uh some of us don't feel we don't like the phrasing potato famine, right?
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:17.199
But the inflicted famine on the Irish people um and the resulting c catastrophe.
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:35.760
Um and when you find these massive mass graves of uh of immigrants, right, yeah, uh it reminds you uh of the story of immigration in places like Canada, and um hopefully we can learn from that and treat the new waves of immigrants uh with that respect, right?
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:44.559
So uh we would hope that the Irish community of which you and I are a part of um uh could see uh uh the empathy towards new waves.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:45.039
Absolutely.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.000
And I feel like yeah.
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:46.960
That's well said.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:47.679
You guys are great.
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.599
I love I love speaking to journalists.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:56.000
You you have a wonderful way of I'm a bit a racontaire storyteller, and you your concise sort of uh reflections.
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:56.960
I appreciate both of you.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.320
That's a nice way of saying a nasty, nasty Midwestern, but yes.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:01.039
Yeah.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:05.360
That was some scathing criticism on the uh premiership of Lord Russell.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.119
So never mind, that was deep time.
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:07.920
No, no, no.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.920
I I I I hold grudges.
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.760
Well, you and a whole Irish, you have to.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:15.280
Yeah, it's the whole thing we do, right?
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:16.159
Irish Alzheimer's.
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:17.199
Irish Godish, yeah.
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:30.320
Yeah, I I heard somebody kind of describe how you know this is a discussion ten years ago when uh when uh Vladimir Putin put up a statue of Stalin again.
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.440
Oh good, right?
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:35.760
You know, and I think he was being interviewed by what's I'm just gonna say too soon.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.239
Too soon.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:36.960
Yeah, too soon.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:37.599
Yeah, too soon.
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:41.679
He was being interviewed by Oliver Stone, and Stone were asking him, like, basically that, isn't it?
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:42.880
Bit too soon.
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:43.360
Yeah.
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:53.199
Uh but then again, you know, uh if I were the Russians, my answers to this one would be, I mean, you know, the English still have statues of Cromwell.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:54.000
True.
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:55.840
Uh you know what the Irish think about that.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:56.639
Yeah.
00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:58.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:03.679
I was uh one of the things uh I liked about Biden was when he took the Churchill bust out.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:11.039
But uh I I I acknowledge Churchill was a great man in many regards, but his treatment towards Ireland was not one of his strong suits.
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:11.519
Sure.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.920
Uh he was no Oliver Cromwell in that sounds like that.
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:14.239
That's true.
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.960
He's better than yeah, there's some there's somehow people have been worse.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.679
Um has anybody been worse than Cromwell?
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:20.960
Maybe Lord Russell.
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.159
Maybe.
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:23.039
All right.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.480
That went dark quick.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:25.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:26.400
Just look it up on Wikipedia.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:30.320
That's it's uh it's a long it's a long list of bad things.
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.760
No, I mean um yeah, this is this fascinates me.
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.800
I look really forward to seeing the the films you made.
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:37.280
Sure.
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.559
So we can go and get the settlement of Iceland indigo Yonah Saga at the library here.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:43.280
The book, yeah.
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.400
And if you're in Canada, you can access it on can you access it?
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:53.679
Yeah, the website is the Norse Women's Saga series, or my my website is MacLeodNumber9.com.
00:38:53.840 --> 00:39:06.639
And you go in the film section and you can see it because the Norse Women's Saga series, uh I have learning guides um that are kind of principled in the teaching methodology of the National Film Board of Canada.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:13.039
They do these guides where you would ask questions before viewing the film, ask questions after viewing the film, and recommended projects.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:21.280
And then there's a secondary guide that shows the whole process because I'm at a stage of my life I want to mentor, I want to keep our industries alive.
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:22.960
So they're free for teachers.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:40.800
They can just download the PDFs, and that um the production notes really explains the whole process of you know, from inception, uh pre-production development, and and to the delivery of the films, and um to encourage young people to tell stories and to learn from these as well.
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:50.239
So that's sort of again my ethos and in what I do is to uh pay it forward, give it back, yeah, and make it accessible, you know.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.000
Um that old saying, we if we don't learn from our history, we're doomed to repeat it.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:54.400
Yeah.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:40:00.480
We seem to keep repeating it, but um no, again, north of the border, it seems to be going pretty well.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.119
Um Yeah.
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:09.360
Uh uh one small note I want to make about this this sagas.
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:18.639
Um and what I have always loved about Icelandic sagas, probably what brought me to this country, was because I had studied Icelandic sagas at the University of Wisconsin, yeah.
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:19.679
Uh Madison.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:26.960
And uh the prominence of women I know we talk about that the that they were slaves.
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.239
There was a slave culture, but obviously the the culture was mixed, right?
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:36.320
A lot of the literary culture, I know I know it's Norse, but there was a lot of Irish culture in the way they told their stories.
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:44.800
And the prominence of women characters and their importance in all the sagas, in many of the the great sagas, um should can't be overstated, I think.
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:51.440
It's it's it's a real I mean we c uh well the other last week I met four Malcorkas, right?
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:53.599
She's the major character in Lochstella saga.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:55.039
Yes, and a slave.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:56.960
And and of course a slave, yeah.
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.280
No, I mean uh women are really prominent characters in a lot of the sagas.
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:03.119
In Lochstella saga, in Yol Saga.
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:10.559
I mean, not for like you know, the the main female character in that book is not exactly a um a hero.
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:12.400
Right, which is actually kind of cool too.
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:13.360
Very cool.
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:13.840
Yeah.
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:18.800
Uh and it's it it's it's it's all over the it's all over the saga.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:32.159
Even even when you get the Grethr saga, which is kind of a retailing of retelling of Beowulf or different telling of Beowulf, you still have a more interesting woman characters there, you which is maybe the least representative, but it's still really really fascinating and progressive.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.400
I I have to mention uh archaeologist I worked with, uh Michelle Hare Smith.
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:44.159
She worked at the uh National Museum, and she had worked on the that exhibition was called Bundled Up in Blue, and it was from 2015 to 2017.
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.480
I just thankfully caught it at the end.
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:48.000
But Michelle opened me up.
00:41:48.079 --> 00:42:06.880
I worked with textile artists, women artists here that had reproduced the the uh the costume, the jewelry, and so forth, because um uh I I use composite, so I use voice actresses here in Iceland and uh my friend Austis uh Sniff uh Sifgunner's daughter, she was one of the composites.
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.079
And uh there was one Burgess Julia, she was amazing.
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:25.280
She's from Kettlestadder, and I know I'm pronouncing that butchering the word, but she was from that town, and when she was being dressed in the costume uh that Marl Madder and uh uh Marianna Gluckelsberg had done, uh she said, Where was the woman's body found?
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:27.840
And I said, Kettlestadder, and she says, Well, that's where my family's from.
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.800
And what was so weird is the costume fit her perfectly.
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:50.079
It was just so I had constant synchronicities with women, and not only could we not have, you know, could Iceland not have existed without the women to produce enough people to make it a sustainable place, but for me, my whole experience in doing these projects, all the women, it was Tina Augustader who did score all the music for the films.
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:54.320
Fantastic, originally from Vikjavik, and uh she lives in Stockholm now.
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.920
Uh studied jazz at Concordia and in Montreal.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:07.679
Um, and I found out I saw her at this where I met the the ambassador, she was singing in a choral group of women uh who are singing traditional uh Rimur singers.
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:08.639
Yeah, right, yeah.
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:15.360
Yeah, so she was doing that, and it was beautiful, beautiful music, and was able to locate her and get her email address.
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.599
And would you do the soundtrack for these films?
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:18.800
Yes, I'm in.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:23.840
So not only women's contribution back in this period, but women's contribution now.
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:30.480
And that's something that a best practice or a way of life here that really blew my mind in Iceland when I first came.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:37.039
Um, Eliza Reed, Canadian, who uh I've met twice now, uh, her book Spracha, you know, the women who are changing Iceland.
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.159
That was uh another wonderful uh sort of inspiration.
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:43.440
Eliza Reed being the former former first lady of Iceland.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.239
Yeah, exactly.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:46.159
Yeah, and a former food editor for this magazine.
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:47.679
Yes, a former colleague here.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:48.559
Yeah, I didn't know that.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:50.880
She actually contributed to the best of Reykjavik uh food.
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:52.239
Oh, yeah, last year, yeah.
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:53.360
Okay, fantastic.
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.280
And she still has her writer's residency, right?
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.719
She runs a writer's residency program here in Reykjavik, yeah.
00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah, fabulous.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:01.280
So yeah.
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:03.599
Oh excellent.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:11.360
I'm like it's like a very like We're trying to focus on your being a cool rock photographer and then another cool thing.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:13.119
And then we get you know we get both things.
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:13.920
It's it's great.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:26.079
So like uh and you know I love rock music and I love rock photography, but I always sagas come from very I'm very sagonyth.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:27.360
Thank you for bringing that up.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:32.400
That means a lot actually, because uh I have that uh that part of me as well that was very nerdy as a kid.
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:40.800
I used to uh read esterix obeliques, uh Lucky Luke, um Spirou Fantasio, all those Belgian uh how do we say that in English?
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:42.400
Asterix and obeliques?
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:42.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:43.840
Lucky Luke, I guess.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.280
That's right, Lucky Luke and uh Spirou and Fantasio.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:51.840
Those all those Belgian French uh I love that as a kid.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:59.360
So yeah, I I grew up with all of these because they were all translated, and I'm not sure they were that big in the United States.
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:04.239
No, they didn't take off the United States, but uh my son and I are working on asterisk in Icelandic.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:04.880
Oh, are you?
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:14.239
Um we all moved back last year, so trying to re-readjust to the Icelandic language, force a teenager to learn Icelandic.
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.559
There's a bit tricky, but asterisk can help.
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:28.639
Well, one of my favorite trivias about uh asterisk and Oplex is and I only realized this very late, is that you know the whole thing that Julius Caesar's always referring to himself in the third person.
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:30.159
Have you noticed this?
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:31.280
No, no, no.
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:33.360
He always will refer to himself in the third person.
00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:41.199
I was like, okay, this is weird, and then that gets passed, and then I read the Calic Wars by Julius Caesar, which he writes and refers to himself in the third person.
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:41.760
Okay.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:46.320
Very smart joke by the Belgian guys there.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:46.960
Oh yeah.
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:49.440
Not lost on the Emperor Motif, right?
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.559
I guess they all got classical education or something.
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:57.280
Yeah, anyway, that's uh Did you ever read uh Moebius uh the Inkle?
00:45:57.440 --> 00:45:58.400
Do you know that series at all?
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.280
It was in heavy metal magazine when I was a teenager.
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:02.159
I used to read that one.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.239
I found it here in one of the bookstores.
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:05.679
I bought it for my son as well.
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:13.599
But the the caveat here, I might not know it might have an Icelandic like translation, and I wouldn't know what it is what Mobius would be there.
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:14.079
Beautiful.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.559
You can see if you've seen Blade Runner by Ridley Scott.
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.480
Wait, are you talking about the artist Mobius?
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:19.440
Yeah, Mobius, yeah.
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:20.000
Oh, okay.
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:21.199
Do you know his yes?
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.920
I love Mobius.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.119
Yeah, it's fabulous.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:27.360
Perhaps I know what you're talking about, but it had a very different lifeline translation.
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.920
The the lead character's name was John DeFoole.
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:35.519
And he's a a cop who's trying to figure out I mean I can see Ridley Scott.
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:49.199
Mobius, so yeah, we're talking about the great graphic novelist Mobius, who does um even if you follow mass culture, he actually did re-invent rewritings of major like superhero things in in America.
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:52.079
Sometimes for some but is he based in France, maybe?
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:52.559
Yes.
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.039
And uh in France he's like a rock star.
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:55.599
Yeah, definitely.
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:57.280
It's a comic book artist.
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:10.400
Like I I can think of no equivalent to the maybe Alex Ross, the the guy who does uh who did um Kingdom Come uh in US comics, but that's very hard, very obscure.
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.079
Whereas Mobius is like a big deal.
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:12.480
Yes.
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:13.199
Wow, okay.
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:13.519
Yeah.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.679
Oh, we share a lot of stuff in common, lads.
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:16.239
Yeah.
00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:32.000
Yeah, I th this opens uh this this is back to the thing you mentioned earlier, which is that uh Canada through the the the French connection have a stronger cultural tie with mainland Europe than North America perhaps sometimes does when it comes to popular culture.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.440
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of uh French immigration too to Montreal.
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:41.199
You can walk in the plateau area when you'll hear like French accent from Paris or one from the south, or you know.
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:49.440
So there's a yeah, it it's it's again a fusion place, uh not only in in food uh but in other as well.
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:53.039
Uh and it's it's an amazing thing uh to have grown up.
00:47:53.199 --> 00:48:02.239
My parents gave me uh the great privilege of being in a multicultural society, learning a second language in a time where Anglos didn't go into the French school system in the 70s.
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:11.519
So uh you know I kind of remember my father trying to convince the directres was uh she was a nun at this elementary school when we first moved to Montreal.
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:13.519
And uh he says, But if Mr.
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.760
McLeod, you can send your kids to English school, no problem.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:20.559
He says, Yeah, but if they don't have the language, they don't have the polter, uh they don't have the culture.
00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:22.800
The the language is the portal to the culture.
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:25.920
And she he just she was stopped, you know.
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:29.920
She obviously had been indoctrinated in a certain way that French and English must be separate.
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:44.880
But I was part of that wave of bilingual Canadians in in Quebec and Montreal that that we flourished as a result, you know, having more than one language like you have here in Iceland, you all know English, it's amazing, and uh it was just such a gift.
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:55.760
And uh having a knowledge of a multicultural society when I traveled as a young man, I had you know, I knew what uh certain foods were in Spain and Italy, and I can order them.
00:48:55.840 --> 00:49:01.840
I remembered some of the Italian words, and it just felt like it was a great bridge and connection to the others.
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:11.280
And uh I think there's this value in being in a multicultural society like Canada or any of the big American cities or European cities, like we're richer for it.
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:11.599
Yeah.
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:11.920
Yeah.
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:23.599
Instead of this intolerance and this idea we're gonna make something great again by eliminating that diversity or that fusion, uh I find that uh that that's not the way forward at all.
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:24.159
No.
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.239
No, it's uh it's cruel and dumb, is what I think about it, but that's just me.
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:29.760
Politics of negation.
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:38.719
So I'm sorry, I just want to recap because uh because what I'm going through is uh re-readjusting to a bilingual life.
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:42.800
Um what age were you when you started the French school in Month?
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.679
Um we moved to Montreal, I was five.
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:46.159
Okay.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:46.480
Yeah.
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:53.119
So I started uh I actually I went to a Jewish it was a Protestant school board, but predominantly a Jewish neighborhood.
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:54.960
And uh it was bilingual.
00:49:55.199 --> 00:50:07.119
So you had Sephardic, you know, North North African, you know, Moroccan, Algerian, and then Quebec and uh Eastern European Jewish families, and we were of that mentality.
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:13.119
Uh, I was we were the one token, you know, the Scottish guys with the uh the blue Christmas tree on the block.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.320
And um, but it Wait, blue Christmas tree.
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:22.559
Yeah, my dad was fixated on having a green Christmas tree with blue light, so it glowed blue in the front room.
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:28.960
So we were like the the token Scottish Irish people with the uh the one Christmas tree on the block.
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:32.159
But it you know, again, a testament to my father.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.719
Yeah, I said, Dad, I'm not gonna have a bar mitzvah.
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.079
I can't do this, I can't do that.
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:36.800
What's this?
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:40.159
And he says, uh I said, I want to go to their temple.
00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:43.039
I want to go, I want to, but I don't have a yamaka and stuff like that.
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:45.280
So he knocked on my best friend's door and said, Mr.
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.920
Saffron, would you allow my son to go to, I think it was Sukat, one of the holidays.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.039
And he said, Mr.
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:52.320
McLeod, but you're not Jewish.
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.559
Why we said, I want my son to be open.
00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:11.280
So off I went to synagogue that night, and you know, I never converted or anything, but it was the fact that my dad was actually open to letting me explore something and uh opening up a discourse and a dialogue, again, having tolerance, you know, with this is where we should be going uh as a society.
00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:13.840
And again, the gratitude for moving.
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:18.880
My mom was from Western Canada, you know, the Texas of uh Canada, Alberta.
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.599
My dad was from Cape Breton, the very Scottish.
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:26.239
And then, you know, he got his uh job as a pilot, test pilot there.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:38.320
And uh again, uh the the gifts uh that it it bestowed on my sister and I um gave us a great wealth in our lived experience, you know, in our work and travel.
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:45.760
Yeah, and you seem to be, as you said, paying it forward with actually showing people, giving people some tools to express themselves and hopefully affect change.
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.079
Uh and uh on on you go from here.
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:50.480
Uh you say from here you go on to Germany?
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.719
I'll go back to Canada and back to Montreal and then to Germany in March, yeah.
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:56.559
Okay when the festival uh passes.
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:59.679
So well, hopefully you can stop by here again and we can do this again.
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.280
I would love that.
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:13.599
Because uh I I I misprepared and was only obsessed with these rock these rock photos, and uh it turns out we have other interests uh uh uh that we share.
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:21.119
And also, as we were talking before, we're also I was a teacher, and you also do uh artists in residency programs, which would be fantastic.
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.960
In fact, we should uh hopefully you can actually come by my kids' schools maybe.
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:29.039
Oh, but my youngest is so fascinating with the physical art.
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:29.280
Okay.
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:35.519
Uh um, as you were mentioning, the idea of showing kids these days how to use carbon paper, it blows their minds.
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:36.639
Make a zine.
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:36.800
Yeah.
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:43.119
We do a lot of zine making at home because obviously I run a magazine and she wants to do her own magazine, right?
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:45.760
So you just staple some A4 papers together.
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:53.440
But uh but anyway, the the physical makeup making physical art really um astounds people who are stuck with this digital world.
00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:00.320
Well, I'm gonna give you a little gift then, knowing your passion for this, for you can share with your your kids.
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:08.000
I have an extra one, you don't have one there, but let me uh let me give you the uh the indigo Iona saga and the settlement of Iceland.
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:09.119
So that's for you and your family.
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:10.320
Oh, thank you so much.
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:20.239
Um and on that note, we should uh conclude our drop-in, which was a genuine drop-in, and also uh uh uh another Canadian drop-in.
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:29.599
So our Western Icelanders uh well you're uh despite the fact that you are made up of the people who settled Iceland, you are technically uh Icelandic heritage, right?
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:34.559
You're I I did ask, I said, are you comfortable with this Canadian of you know Hiberninos background?
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:36.000
Of course, we traded with you.
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:40.000
Yeah.
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:41.039
For myself.
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:43.360
I mean, thank you so much for dropping in.
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:44.320
Oh, thank you guys.
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:45.440
I really enjoyed this today.
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:46.800
This is you made my day.
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.199
Oh lovely, and some nice Icelandic coffee.
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:50.000
That was great.
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:51.519
Yeah, sorry about the coffee.
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:54.000
Uh well, until next time.
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:54.559
Bye-bye.
00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:55.679
All right, see you later.
00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:56.639
Thanks very much.
00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:23.359
Welcome, welcome to the Reykjavik Grape Grapevine offices for a drop-in, and this time I'm doing anything the introduction because we actually have a drop-in.
00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:30.320
This is uh sometimes we do uh podcasts where we host people by invite or by drop-in.
00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:34.240
We started this all with an amazing runner around around Iceland from Canada.
00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:34.640
Yeah.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.640
And now we're back to another drop-in also with a gentleman from from Canada.
00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:39.520
Yeah.
00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:45.359
Yeah, we had a guy on this spring who was trying to set the the world record for running around Iceland.
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:46.320
Oh, yeah.
00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:47.920
Which he achieved.
00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:48.960
And he did it.
00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:49.359
Oh.
00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:50.240
Yeah, he did it.
00:00:50.320 --> 00:01:02.960
I I don't think anybody was I mean, uh, you know, I don't want to be uh, you know, saying anything too negative, but I don't think anybody was really keeping an eye on that record.
00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:03.920
But he broke it.
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:04.799
He did, yeah.
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:07.120
So he wasn't followed, he didn't have his fan base.
00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.239
Uh well people weren't too worried about it being broken, is what we're saying.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.040
It was like eh.
00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:15.439
Oh, it's that that's that's a thing.
00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:19.680
Yeah, so he did it in kind of an astonishingly short amount of time.
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.159
But yeah to the project at hand.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:22.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:37.280
But this is an actual drop-in with G, Scott McLeod, uh, who uh wandered into our office yesterday with our with our journalist Larry Jaffey, because they're two rock journalists, yeah, and you happen to be a major rock photographer from Montreal.
00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:44.000
And and uh as as Yonder was Yon was pointing out, probably a cousin of mine somehow.
00:01:45.760 --> 00:02:07.439
And you're here doing an amazing project on human rights and photography and and and rock and roll, which uh we were talking about as you were as you were coming in about the uh the current controversy between Mac Lamore and Ed Sheeran because uh I'm a re I I moved to Iceland from Seattle where Macklemore is a little bit of an icon, and he really he really does help the local music community.
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:17.439
Uh he's not thought of as all that uh innovative or uh politically active, but compared to Ed Sheeran, whoa, he's a dynamo.
00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:33.120
He got thrown off of the Ed Sheeran concert for saying the words free Palestine, which I guess among some circles is really controversial uh to Ed Sheeran, who uh you know watery gruel comes to mind to describe his everything.
00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:34.000
Okay.
00:02:34.719 --> 00:03:07.120
Um sorry for all the Ed Sheerhands, sheerheads out there, but you're you're of course you're talking about tomorrow you're gonna be at 12 tonar or 12 tonar, um a major records uh store and coffee shop uh and the main place for all hosted events r regarding music uh in town right now, um to show human rights and photography and how essentially the rock music once was used, or popular music was once used to talk about things that mattered.
00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:08.240
Indeed, yeah.
00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:18.560
And also uh I it was an entertainment weekly called the Montreal Mirror who I was working for at the time, and it was 1988, and there was that series of concerts, you know.
00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:28.000
Uh Human Rights Now was the one I photographed, but we know uh there was a Conspiracy of Hope tour, which is also affiliated with uh Amnesty International and Live Aid.
00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:46.479
Uh so there's a bit of a trend of that going on, and I got the opportunity to go there as the photojournalist to photograph um Bruce Springsteen, Tracy Chapman, Sting, uh Yusuna Door, and Peter Gabriel, and then two Quebec uh performers, Daniel Lavoie and uh Michel Rivard.
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:54.240
Uh so I guess during that tour, every city they stopped off and they would invite local musicians who would sing in their local language as well.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:08.080
Um and it they would at the first opening song was uh Get Up Stand Up by Bob Marley, and it was uh the celebration of the 40th anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights, which was actually drafted by a Canadian, one of the first drafts.
00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:15.599
Uh so yeah, it was not lost on me that experience, and uh it had a powerful impact, I think, uh, that day.
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:22.879
And um that seemed to be the narrative or the type of musicians I was interested in as a photojournalist at the Mirror at that time.
00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:40.720
Uh so I did pursue Irish bands, uh Canadian bands, and and other international bands or individual singers, and uh leaned into their lyrics more profoundly, more deeply, wanted to, you know, uh everyone from Billy Bragg to Michelle Schacht to uh Leonard Cohen, you know.
00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:43.759
I saw oh sorry, I I love the photo of Billy Bragg in here.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:45.600
Yes, uh with the Lick Busch sticker.
00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:46.240
Yeah.
00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:53.759
I just um pe people who listen to us or or read our magazine might not be surprised that I'm uh obsessed with Billy Bragg.
00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.439
But um yeah, capturing him, he's not the most photogenic of people.
00:04:57.519 --> 00:04:58.560
I I'm one to speak.
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.120
I'm also not, but I just think it's a it's cool to capture his uh energy the way he was.
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:04.079
He was pretty funny.
00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:11.759
That was uh one of the McGill rooms, uh McGill University in Montreal, and he was touring with Michelle Shocht, in fact, and he flipped his guitar around.
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:12.959
It was when Bush Sr.
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:17.839
was running for election and you know the British jab, you know, we're gonna let this boston, you know.
00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:18.160
Yeah.
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:22.720
So um, anyways, he he had a lot of chuckles, very funny guy, very accessible.
00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.759
Uh I recently saw him about uh two months ago in Montreal.
00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:27.040
He's doing another tour.
00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:27.519
Right.
00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:29.120
And uh still got it.
00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:36.000
People are singing along with the lyrics, and uh he doesn't seem to have gone off track in terms of his politics and his views.
00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.480
No, he's the real deal.
00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:39.439
I agree.
00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:44.000
Uh what I fascinated by your brief discussion of the Montreal Mirror, right?
00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:59.439
The Montreal Mirror Um is uh this uh this belief that music should matter, and I feel like if you go north of the border, it's a little bit more obvious that that's a part of the culture than it is if you just go south, right?
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:15.519
Um Do you feel that a little bit, the difference in cultures as you head down to New York, New York City, and it's uh maybe the the music in Alphabet City doesn't exactly have the same I say Alphabet City because as you get to the bottom of Manhattan you get the music that you can afford to get into.
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:16.000
Yes.
00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:40.240
But uh there was a time when you could afford to get into hearing somebody talk about something that mattered, and and more and more the same clubs that I played as a songwriter, uh uh they no longer they're more about they literally will say they're about exposure and about getting on the on the gravy train of uh maybe YouTube or Spotify is the weapons manufacturer Spotify, right?
00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:47.279
Um but whereas in Canada I feel like you know we have this guided by voices kind of always in the spotlight.
00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:53.680
There's always a tradition of uh lyrics mattering or content mattering more than style.
00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:55.040
Yeah, I could say that.
00:06:55.120 --> 00:07:02.000
You know, Len Cohen, first we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin, you know, his album The Future, uh, and and further in his romance stories as well.
00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:04.079
I mean, he was a pretty b broad poet.
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:04.720
Yeah.
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:18.399
Um and also yeah, during the punk uh new wave movement, I remember in Montreal, there were a lot of bands that uh were you know striking up a pose for something that they were against or for.
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:21.439
Um that era you were gonna say something.
00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.079
Sorry, yeah, you we were talking about 88, but at what point did you start photocotographing?
00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.160
Um high school.
00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.319
I was uh the the yearbook photographer.
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:31.920
Yeah, but you look 10 year than me.
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:33.120
I have no idea when this would be.
00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.079
Uh okay, so I I was in high school in the 70s.
00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.360
I graduated in 82, um, 61 now.
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.560
So uh born in 65, and uh myself.
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.160
So you were photographing in the 80s in the at the turn of the 80s, yeah.
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:54.160
So you were there for the punk, great punk movement, and then and I don't know what it was like in Canada, but like so you're are the Ramones coming through?
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.279
Yes, absolutely.
00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:00.079
We had a famous club in Montreal called the Foufon Electric, which means uh electric ass cheeks.
00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:01.439
Uh the translation.
00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:03.040
It still exists, still there.
00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.079
And this is we need to get this on our travel itinerary.
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:07.839
Electric ass cheeks?
00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:09.279
Just Montreal in general.
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.839
I I I feel deeply embarrassed that I've never been.
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.600
But Montreal features so strongly in everything I read because yeah, as you said.
00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.319
So the Ramones came through electric ass cheeks.
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:19.759
Yeah, exactly.
00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:28.480
And and other, I mean, you you name a punk band or uh there was a strong uh love for metal, for punk, alternative.
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:42.399
I mean, all forms of music and being a bilingual you know culture that Canada is, Montreal is sort of like this epicenter where you have not any multiculturalism, like I grew up around a lot of people that were trilingual and multiple languages.
00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:48.720
So there was these crossovers of of the European culture coming in and other, you know, from other parts of the world.
00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:55.519
So there's a uh not only do I say in in terms of menu of food, was there a fusion, but also in the music.
00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.960
So people could like Daniel Lanois, who produced U2.
00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:00.480
Oh, he comes up again.
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:01.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:16.159
So Daniel Lanois was, you know, on uh Francophone, uh French Canadian, and uh he he sang in French, you know, uh he had a famous song um that was called uh it was a tobacco picking song called Au Marie.
00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:26.240
And that is traditionally based in the Quebec style of singing call and answer, yeah, but then you know produced Gabriel and you too and and go in this other realm.
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:35.360
So but as a songwriter himself, he he really crossed, he was able to create bring that bilingual uh narrative in uh and culture, which was fascinating.
00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.519
He I've seen him many times, beautiful, beautiful uh performer or singer-songwriter.
00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:40.720
I feel so ignorant.
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.000
I had no idea that I know his production.
00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:53.759
One of my favorite records is Lanois of all things, the Neil Young record he did, which I should be yeah, I always have these boomer references that I always like this older stuff.
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:58.159
But um I did not realize he's a great bilingual artist himself.
00:09:58.399 --> 00:09:58.559
Absolutely.
00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:02.399
Okay, which which record should I get from uh from Daniel Lanois?
00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:04.559
Okay, the his Wait, did I say it right?
00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.200
I always say Lanois, but it's yeah, yeah, Daniel Lanois.
00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:07.519
Okay.
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:18.480
I can do the Quebec and I can do my Metropolitan French or uh Quebec French, which is a real patois, it's a real yeah it's like we're the Texans a bit of of the Franco Folie, I guess you could say.
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:18.879
Okay.
00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:20.879
Yeah, we got some interesting expressions.
00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:21.519
Yeah.
00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:22.159
Yeah.
00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:23.759
So which record do I get for the first one?
00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:25.360
I would get his first one, Akezi.
00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:25.840
Okay.
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.679
Yeah, that to me, uh guys uh uh you two play on it and other, and you know, yeah, that's strong.
00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:33.519
You two play on his first record.
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:34.399
Of course they do.
00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:34.799
Wow.
00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.039
Well it's it's a it's a keeper.
00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:41.679
To me, it's sort of like part of the Canadian songbook to me.
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:47.039
You know, it it's got such strong roots in Canadian story and and French Canadian story.
00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:47.279
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:51.120
And your Canadian songbook I'm I l I'm obsessed with the American songbook.
00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:53.440
But is it go a different direction?
00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:58.000
Like what are what else are the so that are they all often multilingual, the Canadian songbook?
00:10:58.320 --> 00:10:59.840
Um no, it's it's pretty broad.
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:05.279
I mean, there's uh obviously a very strong, you know, we were talking about Neil Young earlier and and uh like Gordon Lightfoot.
00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:07.519
Gordon Lightfoot, you just took the word out of my mouth.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:09.039
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:15.200
Gordon was uh he's uh highly, highly regarded, and uh and others, Cohen as well, you know.
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:15.679
Right.
00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:16.720
Who you say, Lynn?
00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.200
I'd never heard I never heard anybody s shorten it to Lynn.
00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:20.240
Well Lynn, yeah, right.
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:22.320
Did you talk to him when you were photographing?
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:23.120
Oh my god, yeah.
00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:24.399
Uh that's what you did?
00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:25.279
I did, yeah.
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:26.480
Um this is weird.
00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:27.919
Okay, so it's my first job.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.519
I just got hired at the mirror, and the editor uh said, Okay, Scott, you and Martin are gonna go photograph Leonard Cohen.
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:34.480
It's 1988.
00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:36.960
I'm your man tour at such and such a hotel.
00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:38.080
And I'm like, Leonard Cohen.
00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.840
He says, Yeah, it's gonna be so we need a cover shot and we want to insert for the article.
00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.039
I'm like, okay.
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.080
And I was a bit, you know, intimidated.
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:56.000
Uh we arrive at the hotel and he's out in the terrass and he's wearing the you know, the nice jacket with the beautiful shirt and sitting there having a smoke, and he had a bottle of Advil in front of him.
00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.639
I'm like, hmm, maybe a bit hung over from the night before.
00:11:58.720 --> 00:11:59.200
Who knows?
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.000
Because I know he, you know, he liked to mix it up a bit.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:02.399
Right.
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:09.679
So we removed the Advil bottle and Martin starts interviewing him, and I'm squatting down beside him on the edge of the table.
00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:11.200
And I just come back from Dublin.
00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:20.159
I had a Celtic Cross tattoo done in Montreal, and uh, you know, reclaiming my Scottish-Irish heritage a bit uh by self-abuse.
00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:25.840
And uh so Len leans over and he looks, he says, Oh, Celtic Cross, are you Scottish-Irish?
00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:27.039
I said, I'm both uh Mr.
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:27.519
Cohen.
00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:28.639
You know, I didn't call him Len.
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:28.879
Right.
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.639
And uh, anyways, he goes, uh, oh, I just came back from Dublin.
00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.480
I said uh as I did, I said, and he says, Yeah, yeah, a friend of mine got a tattoo just like that.
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:37.279
You want a drink?
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.159
And I go, uh, it's 10 in the morning, Mr.
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:40.639
Cohen.
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:41.440
Uh, we're working.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:42.720
He says, Ah, it doesn't matter.
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:45.679
Every time I do an album, I do this drink called the Red Needle.
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:46.799
I make it for all the band members.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:48.559
I said, The Red Needle, what's that?
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:53.360
And he says, Well, um, cranberry juice, tequila, some ice, a bit of fruit.
00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.600
Anyways, don't worry, I'll get them to make them for us.
00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:56.799
And the drinks come.
00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:03.360
And we're sitting there knocking back the drinks and you know, giving us we'd like we're not like Rolling Stone or Spin Magazine or anything.
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.639
Gives us the time of day, total gentleman.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:10.240
And I think he's feeling a little better.
00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.879
I think the maybe the hangover subsiding a bit.
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:13.279
Yeah.
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:15.840
And then uh I it's analog film.
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:17.200
I have one last roll.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.399
I I got my shots, uh, the insert and the cover, and I just, Mr.
00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.440
Cohen, would you be inclined to just could we like charge out on Prince Arthur Street?
00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.879
And I just want to shoot 36 in a row of you moving.
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:29.919
Let's do it.
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.320
He just gets up with a big grin on his face.
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:38.320
I put some of them in the book, and he just charges out smiling, and 36 shots, 36 seconds, done.
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:47.120
And we had I had my Leonard Cohen moment, and uh so and I took the uh luxury of or liberty of calling him Lynn.
00:13:47.279 --> 00:14:11.840
Uh when I tell that story, but he he was a gentleman, he really, really nice, covered, paid the drinks, of course, and uh and I I mean that's that experience was kind of legend, and uh I live I it got me uh I guess motivated to to pursue photography uh as a photojournalist uh in a deeper way because and did a deep dive into his music and his books and poetry and stuff.
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.759
So and it pays off with Leonard Cohen.
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.720
I I feel like if you can stick it through that first, you know, the first time you're like, what is going on here?
00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:20.799
And then well the with great music, right?
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:25.039
It's the the best music for me is stuff that I initially reject and then come back to.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:29.919
And I feel like Leonard Cohen has that depth where and also that you have to earn it.
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.080
Yeah, admittedly, I I would say the same.
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:40.159
I didn't know enough about him, and having that first encounter with you know, genuine encounter, like, oh no, I have to know this man.
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.120
I have to do a deeper dive and know his story.
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.120
That's true of a lot of my favorite Canadian musicians, by the way.
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.639
I feel like obviously Neil Young, I did not the first time I was like, What is this?
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:52.720
Joni Mitchell's the exception, yeah.
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.960
But yeah, uh and guided by voices would be uh immediate rejection and then come back.
00:14:59.120 --> 00:14:59.519
Interesting.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:04.480
What is the what is the status of the band in either Canadian or the band?
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.600
Uh yeah, because they're all Canadian, except for uh Leon Hellman.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:08.879
That's right, the drummer.
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.360
Um yeah, they're pretty archetypal.
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:19.919
Uh I mean, uh Robbie Robinson, he came to my neighborhood actually, one of the schools, and uh he did a talk just I guess a year or two before he passed away.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.039
He had just done his autobiography.
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:22.399
Oh, that ceremony book, yeah.
00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.679
Yeah, so you paid and it they're all signed by him.
00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:30.799
Uh you couldn't go see him obviously after his talk and everything, but it was he was great.
00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.799
He was very uh relaxed, very candid, uh very forthcoming.
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:42.720
Um, and uh I I so that was kind of nice to see him in person and uh because I'd never seen the band uh live myself.
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:55.120
But even though you were covering you were shooting from 80, you didn't get to see any of the yeah, I guess in the 80s and 90s I was kind of leaning more, even though I know Lanwa and him worked together as well, and he did some great uh collaborations with Aboriginal singers.
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.600
I don't know if you followed those two albums, those were phenomenal.
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:04.320
So I was a huge fan, but I I never got the opportunity to see him live as a solo artist, and the band, yeah, I missed that, you know.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.120
Well, yeah, that's what YouTube is for.
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:08.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:09.600
I guess so.
00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:10.480
Sorry.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.840
So you you're starting, you get these great punk bands.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:23.120
I mean, I assume because we were talking briefly before that you did seem to have an interest in punk a little bit, and that's kind of a natural uh punk and Leonard Cohen, who's like somehow the punk of all f songwriters.
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:23.519
Yeah.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:28.320
Uh and then we have kind of a multilingual uh entry.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:35.120
And speaking of punk, we're of course blocking off the window because uh people are destroying the streets out front.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:42.639
Um and then we have this eventual buildup to this great political moments in music, right?
00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:44.559
What's the first of this of the series?
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:50.879
You mentioned three three major uh political activists, activist moments you were involved in as a photographer.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.279
Yeah, I well that seeing um human rights now.
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:56.639
Uh human rights now, yeah.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:03.519
Yeah, when I saw Peter Gabriel sing Biko, I was like, you know, to borrow the Jewish expression, verklempt, you know, it was like wow.
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:03.840
Yeah.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:09.519
And uh he was also singing with Yasun Nodur, the African uh, you know, uh performer as well.
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.720
And uh he put his fist up in the air, and I just caught that moment.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.279
It's that's why I choose that photo for the cover.
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:15.680
Yeah.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:30.240
And uh it it it it wasn't lost, you know, on and he's wearing some traditional dress, some call it maybe cultural appropriation, but you know, he was one of these first guys to really push world music and highlight a lot of uh musicians that otherwise would go unnoticed.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:30.799
Right.
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:35.119
You know, real world I think it was real world records was his uh label.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:48.960
Um and uh then I I think I would say um Tracy Chapman, when she did Fast Car, and this is kind of the beginning of her career, she had like a five-minute standing ovation.
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.279
And she just couldn't play guitar.
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.200
She was really moved by the the public response.
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.119
Yeah, it's hard not to react to her songs, right?
00:17:59.359 --> 00:17:59.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:01.039
Very, very powerful.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.599
It's so powerful that I understand why she wouldn't perform.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:14.640
Because there's a stuck when you watch these these performances, that's another YouTube obsession, the deep dives on on things people like Tracy Chapman, and you understand it maybe is too intense to keep performing live.
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:28.960
She even came out recently for when it was re-released and performed with the I think Nashville songwriter who got up and re-released her song and the crowd went crazy, and you're like, uh wow, this is so positive, it's almost overwhelming.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.720
Paying it forward and yeah, the next generation.
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.440
And then third, um we were talking about Billy Bragg earlier.
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:42.480
Uh when I saw him uh at uh McGill University with Michelle Shocht.
00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.839
Uh I mean he was I didn't really have knowledge of his music either prior.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:54.960
I I knew some some of his tunes, but he was very, very funny and a great storyteller between his songs.
00:18:55.119 --> 00:19:03.039
So he he was uh and I I I I was mentioning earlier also that I I saw him two months ago uh in Montreal, and he has not changed.
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:08.880
He's on the same course, the same path, very committed to his his uh politics and his views.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:17.200
Now we go to the the dark end of because I'm always wallowing in darkness and apathy, not uh, and just like where how can I get negative on this?
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:39.119
But it feels like with this music track and with like this uh Montreal Mirror and and the way they were covering Things That Matter, I feel like progress affected people north of the border more than south of the border, and to the point where you get this current movement where you have the leader of the Middle Nations as your prime minister speaking up in times of conflict.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:55.920
Um do you feel like do you feel like there's a line there of celebrating culture, celebrating multinationalism, uh being kind of bold-faced to it, and then and then having this moment where now you you have the prime minister who's speaking up on behalf of Middle Nations?
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:15.119
If Kearney's done anything in Canada now, and I know many Canadians agree to this, the whole elbows up and all the tariffs, and you know, we're not gonna be the 51st state, I would say he he has unified a lot of the provinces because internally in Canada there's you know issues of of trade and stuff like that.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:24.559
And what it's done, it's it's kind of created solidarity in all the provinces, and the country really feels strongly that you know we should be able to stand up for our own.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.519
We should be able to expand our our our market and our trade relations and so forth.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:34.640
So he has really taken on a positive um uh status.
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.640
I I you know, I don't want to generalize.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.599
There's always going to be the naysayers, but he's got some problems.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:43.279
Some people talk about some of his attitudes towards fossil fuels not being ideal, right?
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.680
Yeah, putting pipelines in, like, oh, what's this?
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.359
He uh he was supposed to be an environmentalist.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:47.759
Right.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.240
So you there always will be a kickback for sure.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:21:02.240
And uh but I can't I don't know uh politically who would have been like Polyev, his rival, uh, would have not been competent enough to deal with uh the issues of tariffs and Trumps, in my opinion.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:02.960
Right, right, right.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:42.640
But uh you know, he was governor of Bank of Canada, governor of the Bank of England, Kearney, so yeah, he's no newbie, he understands things, comes from very humble beginnings in uh northern Alberta and it it's been quite almost almost shocking from abroad to see somebody who has the profile of a classic technocrat uh be the most articulate and brave sort of voice in amongst the Western leaders in terms of you know explaining our current situation or the world's new order as it is.
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:44.079
You heard him speak at Davos.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.519
Oh yes, absolutely.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.240
I have like my hair went up, and like wow.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.279
Yeah, I mean it was apparently he wrote it himself.
00:21:53.519 --> 00:22:02.960
He did, uh I was told, but it was very brief, concise, and to the point, and it was a Perfect perfectly understandable speech.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:23.519
And he was just kind of you know that's also another thing, you know, y do you uh do you necessarily expect you know a quote unquote technocrat to kind of deliver a speech like this in such a plain, understandable way, mm-hmm using kind of always always the right metaphors and references that kind of everybody can get without you know dumbing it down at all.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.640
It was a incredible thing to watch from from afar.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:51.759
Yeah, and he does possess these qualities uh in a like a a technocrat, banker slash empath, you know, who says that he's interested in in in environmental issues and so forth, his wife equally, and and that he can deliver these concise messages in a clear fashion, you know, not uh cafe fe or you know uh you know uh word stumblings and stuff like that.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:23:12.559
He's and and it doesn't a level of humility, like you know, Canadian humbleness uh which uh ever every politician has to wear a certain costume and and you know there's methods of your delivery, but the salient points, like you're saying, uh I think that is given uh a level of hope in Canada and hopefully further.
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:13.119
Yeah.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.039
Uh so we were inspired.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:22.000
Yeah, I mean his directness is something we've very much not seen with our Western leaders over the past decades.
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:23.839
So it's like a really fresh breath.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:24.160
Yeah.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:27.279
I mean we can read Breath of Fresh Air, sorry.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.680
Oh, you did stereo, perfect.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.039
It's it's been like an incredible thing.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:47.039
We've had a lot of long hours this summer together in the same room trying to write this paper and uh we now speak and well I would like to take this opportunity to thank you guys for your for the grapevine and your commitment to it.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:54.559
It's it's a great I have the two copies since I've been here uh beside my bedside and uh enjoying the articles and you do good work.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:54.880
Oh, thank you.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.559
You guys are good writers.
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:57.440
Thank you very much.
00:23:57.680 --> 00:23:58.319
And Larry too.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.839
What a fabulous thanks to him.
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.039
I'm here today.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:06.000
But uh uh We stumbled on to having a journalism professor come and write with us.
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.039
Oh, you're me you're making records, great.
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:10.240
What did you do before you made records?
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:11.440
Journalism professor.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:13.119
Hey, we have coffee here.
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:14.799
Uh maybe you should stay here.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.920
Um talk about Mark Carney and his plain speech approach and technocrat.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:33.599
I think this is uh reminds me of one of the great things I love about uh Canada and uh the upper Midwest, maybe, is that uh you're in a place where the environment will kill you if you're not if you mess around, right?
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:39.279
Uh you stop posing as much as is noted in the Martin Scarcese documentary uh about Bob Dylan.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:46.079
You know, you can't really be a rebel in in northern Minnesota because if if you change your clothes too much, you're gonna die from the cold, right?
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.759
So the pose goes away and the and the flannel comes on.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.599
Um I was looking at your photos a great deal and I and I noticed not a lot of gimmicks in those photos either, right?
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:57.200
It's all about just raw analog.
00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:59.039
It's what I saw is what you got.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:00.960
You know, I there's not a lot of doctoring.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:08.720
I hired an intern to scan them because they were from my archive, uh, their negs and some um slides, the E6 we called it back in the day.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.720
So she did some a bit of color correction and clean up the dust and whatever.
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.319
But yeah, I wanted them to be raw.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.119
I wanted to really reflect that era, that analog era.
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:26.880
And uh I mean, I they didn't have a dark room at the Montreal Mirror at the day, so I was an asset to them because I had my own dark room and I could process my own film.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:34.160
You had to bring your your contact sheet, you would sit there with the editor, and he would add a wax crayon, and he would circle, yeah.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.960
I'd love this one of Cohen, or I love that one of uh you know Haro's flowers or whoever it was.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.920
And you have to go back to your dark room, you have to print it out.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:43.759
So the immediacy wasn't there.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.319
You really there was a process that was different.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.279
It took more time.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.960
There were more discourse, more uh interactions together.
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.319
Uh wasn't online either.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.759
So it really is just a it was another time, another era.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:15.359
And a friend of mine's a producer at uh at uh the CBC, uh your equivalent of NPR um in the States, and she she bought my Leonard Cohen photos, the 36 shots of him on the street, because they had an exhibition shortly after he passed at the Musée d'Arcontemporain, the our contemporary museum in Montreal.
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.720
And I bumped into it at her party and I said, uh Carrie, what are you working on?
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:25.920
Her name's Carrie Haber, and she said, Oh, I'm we're doing a walking tour of Leonard Cohen's um short Montreal and Long Montreal.
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:27.519
I'm like, Oh wow, that's really strange.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.440
I just found these photos in my archive.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:33.920
No one's seen them, and they're of him walking on Prince Arthur Street, and she says, Scan them for me tomorrow.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:34.559
Send them.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:44.160
So they had them edited by this woman, Kathleen Weldon, who worked at the film board, National Film Board of Canada, where I collaborate on other documentary and animation works.
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:59.039
And this beautiful intro is you download the app, and it's just Leonard, you know, after the Red Needles walking around, and uh they had the mountain with the angel and the cross uh Mount Royal is a iconic uh sort of uh geography in in Montreal.
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:01.599
And uh I mean I was really touched and they paid for them.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:05.599
I probably made more money selling those photos than I did my whole time working at the mirror.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:06.319
Oh, right.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.119
And uh, but just she said, when are you gonna do a book?
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:10.240
You know, when are you gonna do this?
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:14.319
And uh so she gave me the right prompt to do it.
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:16.640
And I have to say, I've been working with Amnesty International.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:23.519
I'm gonna be in Berlin in March for their big photo um uh uh festival that they have in Berlin.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:28.319
And Amnesty have jumped on board and they said, We really want this because of the rise of the right.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:28.960
Yeah.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:33.440
Another woman I worked with, uh, I did a documentary on the Cold War in Berlin.
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.880
She said, You gotta do this.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:39.680
We're we're troubled by what's going on in Germany, especially with their dark past and their history.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:44.559
Not that my book is gonna make any massive difference or anything, but it's an effort, you know.
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.119
And I said, Um I will humbly abide, please.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:48.799
You know, let's do it, let's work on that.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:50.559
So that's a bit of the ethos.
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:56.000
I I if I go back to those Montreal Mir days, that was something we really were in it together.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:02.319
We felt that it was really important to share our skill sets, and that's that's why I see here at Grapevine.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.319
I see you guys are really collectively together.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:06.640
Your discussions in the kitchen were phenomenal.
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:12.799
You know, even it was about Eddie and uh and other, but uh you know this is important work you're doing.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.960
We we have to continue to do this work.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.200
Yeah, that's why, yeah, that's what I fascinated by the book.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.559
So uh and sorry, go ahead.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.839
Yeah, yeah, like I I if you don't mind, I almost wanted to talk about the different project of yours.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.400
Oh, yeah.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:52.319
And it kinda easy to pivot from Mark Carney's uh version of of the world uh and his Tao speech, and perhaps that project, because uh you know, in 2026 the he is making uh an effort of trying to build a relationship with what he calls the middle powers, but also with the you like with Europe.
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:59.119
And we talked about it yesterday that we were talking about like there that there's this connection between Iceland and Canada.
00:28:59.279 --> 00:28:59.920
Yeah.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:10.400
Which well, I mean, you can put the the whole thing that uh Icelanders well, old Norse people found found quote unquote North America a thousand years ago.
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.599
That's kind of in there, but it's just backstory and nothing came of it.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:23.119
But uh there's a migratory period uh from Iceland to Canada in the eighteen seventies onwards and into the twentieth century.
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:24.000
Gimli, yeah.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:26.799
Gimli, yeah, Gimli and and the area around Winnipeg.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.200
And the fantastic poet Stefan Stefansen.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:29.759
Oh yes.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.319
Which uh you th you celebrate as Canadian too.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:33.759
Stefan Stefanson.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:34.559
Absolutely, yeah.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:39.599
Which is which he's so he's one of the few writers who is celebrated in both countries after life.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.960
Yeah, he he was uh he hung out with my great grandfather.
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:43.759
No kidding.
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.480
That's great.
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:46.160
Wow, pump pulse too.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.720
Never mind.
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.920
And he's a fantastic poet.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:48.640
I mean he really is.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:49.839
Oh great and yeah.
00:29:50.400 --> 00:30:07.200
But there is but you know, talking about connections, I mean, there is uh historically, if we talk about Iceland, there is this, you know, old connection with with Greenland and then with North America, but predominantly there is this connection with the Hebrides, Norway, um, Ireland.
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:07.839
Yeah.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:19.200
And kind of this at some point it was described to me that you kinda have to think about Iceland, the Faroe Islands, Norway, the Hebrides, and Ireland as like a on like a highway, like a sea highway.
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.480
It was like there was so much traffic back and forth.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:30.799
And we also kind of talked about we I was mentioning my love of historical fiction sometimes to kind of get you into the place.
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:36.640
But you have this great project from is it last year or it was published last year, right?
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.400
Uh this was published last year, yeah.
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.880
And Indigo Ioana Saga.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.880
So this is based on an archaeological find.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:47.359
That's right.
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.759
I think in 1938 during a road construction in the East, if I remember correctly.
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:57.359
Yeah, that's right.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:00.960
And you just conjure up your her whole life story.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:01.920
Yeah, I know.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:11.519
I have an American friend, she just published a book and we support each other's efforts, and she says, You created that from from that archaeological find you saw at the museum in Iceland.
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:13.920
I said, Yeah, it was the National Museum of Iceland.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:32.400
And I had done my first residency here in 2017 at the SIM uh facility, and I just remember walking in there and seeing her bones uh she was kind of buried on her side, and all the jewelry, uh the oval brooches, and so forth.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.240
And I thought, Well, who is this woman?
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:35.279
What is her story?
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:54.720
And I started reading some of the plaques and talking about the Hiberno Norse, which is my ancestry, and how, you know, when the Vikings were fleeing uh the feuding kings in Norway, they were stopping off to refuel and restock their ships, but also taking wet women as wives or more probably slaves.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:03.680
And uh so Ireland, Scotland, uh th to Orkney, Shetlands, and all, like you said, uh that transatlantic migration across.
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:05.519
And I was just fascinated by these stories.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.920
My grandfather used to talk about that quite a bit.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.000
And um uh our our name, McLeod, kind of plays into my grandfather said you it's Norse.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:19.119
There m MacLeod's not a it's a Celtic name, you know, it's been Gaelicized, Anglicized.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:33.759
And uh we had this exhibition at the McCord Museum in in Montreal, and uh it was called Full Circle First Contact, and it was about the discovery of uh from Greenland to to uh uh Newfoundland, which is rooted in the Vinland saga.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:35.519
And I love that saga as a young man.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.039
I used to read it all the time.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:42.079
And uh I was standing there talking to an Icelander actually, he was working at Ubisoft in Montreal.
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.480
He's about my hike, tattoos, blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, the you get the picture.
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:55.200
And uh the ambassador to Iceland walks over and he said he starts speaking to him in Icelandic, and then he looks over at me and starts speaking Icelandic to me.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.680
And I go, No, no, I'm Canadian, sorry, I don't speak Icelandic.
00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.039
And he says, Ah, what is your name?
00:32:59.119 --> 00:32:59.680
I say, Scott.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.680
No, no, no, your surname, and I go, Mukhlad, ah, Jotr, you're one of us.
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:04.400
Ha ha ha ha.
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.559
And then he walks away in like etymology.
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.799
Son of the ugly wolf from the Orknean sagas, you know, like oh my goodness.
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.680
So I guess it was a bit of a joke name that you would give the ugly son, uh, Jotur.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.920
But I'm probably not pronouncing it properly.
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.640
Pretty complex reference to leave you with without explanation.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.680
Wander off.
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:22.400
Yeah.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.519
And the and the Ubisoft guy with our beards in her hand, going, What was that?
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:29.200
You know, but it was fun.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.880
So it's a deep dive.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.519
I just have, you know, there's these crazy synchronicities.
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:42.160
So I take the residency, I see this woman's character, and for it it took I decided to do something called the Norse Women's Saga series.
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:47.039
So I highlighted women in the Norse sagas, collaborated with the National Film Board of Canada.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:34:02.400
It's a three-part series, starting the leaving of Norway, coming to Iceland, and she's one of the principal characters, um, historic fiction, as you said, but rooted in the sagas, and then Eric the Red, Ice uh Greenlander Saga, and then the Vinland saga.
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:18.480
So I did what you described, the trans migration of North Atlantic and uh to Canada, and how uh a lot of my work with the film board is is uh licensed and distributed through the school system, library system in Canada.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:22.400
And it's to give these stories to to young people, older people as well.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:29.119
But uh the importance is is uh conveying you know what how these people lived, how they migrated, why did they migrate?
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:33.039
So those questions were implanted by my grandfather Bert McLeod.
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:35.199
It was like, where are we from?
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:36.480
Why did we leave?
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:40.000
What happened when you came to whatever place you migrated to?
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:47.599
And that was became sort of the mission statement for doing these three episodes on Iceland, Greenland, and Newfoundland.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:49.280
And it was an incredible journey.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:56.079
It's a 10-year journey, and uh it was wonderful to work with Turfy Tulinus, he's a professor at the University of Iceland.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:11.039
So I've shown all three films now there, and uh, I've donated the books to your central library, to uh the university library, and uh also uh naturally the museum given that's where the uh artifacts were found uh or placed now.
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:27.840
No, I I find this fascinating, but it's also like uh yeah, I I I guess if if there's been a decent enough uh relationship, slavery or sight, I guess it's uh I guess now is a good good time to revisit that.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:28.159
Yeah.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.320
To remember that we've all had a relationship across the Atlantic.
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:35.519
Well and that we should perhaps do more of it.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.239
Maybe Carney's bringing us back in a sense.
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:40.800
We're going the other direction now and exactly.
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.480
I mean, the way things are going, we might need uh a sailboat to get across.
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:52.480
But yes, yeah, there's there's a lot I love in what you were saying, but one thing about thinking about like where we come from.
00:35:52.639 --> 00:36:12.079
Um you and I were talking before while we were grabbing coffee about uh in Montreal specifically, discovering uh burial sites, mass burial sites of Irish immigrants from from well, uh depending on your politics, uh some of us don't feel we don't like the phrasing potato famine, right?
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:17.199
But the inflicted famine on the Irish people um and the resulting c catastrophe.
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:35.760
Um and when you find these massive mass graves of uh of immigrants, right, yeah, uh it reminds you uh of the story of immigration in places like Canada, and um hopefully we can learn from that and treat the new waves of immigrants uh with that respect, right?
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:44.559
So uh we would hope that the Irish community of which you and I are a part of um uh could see uh uh the empathy towards new waves.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:45.039
Absolutely.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:46.000
And I feel like yeah.
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:46.960
That's well said.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:47.679
You guys are great.
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.599
I love I love speaking to journalists.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:56.000
You you have a wonderful way of I'm a bit a racontaire storyteller, and you your concise sort of uh reflections.
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:56.960
I appreciate both of you.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.320
That's a nice way of saying a nasty, nasty Midwestern, but yes.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:01.039
Yeah.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:05.360
That was some scathing criticism on the uh premiership of Lord Russell.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.119
So never mind, that was deep time.
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:07.920
No, no, no.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:09.920
I I I I hold grudges.
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.760
Well, you and a whole Irish, you have to.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:15.280
Yeah, it's the whole thing we do, right?
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:16.159
Irish Alzheimer's.
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:17.199
Irish Godish, yeah.
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:30.320
Yeah, I I heard somebody kind of describe how you know this is a discussion ten years ago when uh when uh Vladimir Putin put up a statue of Stalin again.
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.440
Oh good, right?
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:35.760
You know, and I think he was being interviewed by what's I'm just gonna say too soon.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.239
Too soon.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:36.960
Yeah, too soon.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:37.599
Yeah, too soon.
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:41.679
He was being interviewed by Oliver Stone, and Stone were asking him, like, basically that, isn't it?
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:42.880
Bit too soon.
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:43.360
Yeah.
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:53.199
Uh but then again, you know, uh if I were the Russians, my answers to this one would be, I mean, you know, the English still have statues of Cromwell.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:54.000
True.
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:55.840
Uh you know what the Irish think about that.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:56.639
Yeah.
00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:58.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:03.679
I was uh one of the things uh I liked about Biden was when he took the Churchill bust out.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:11.039
But uh I I I acknowledge Churchill was a great man in many regards, but his treatment towards Ireland was not one of his strong suits.
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:11.519
Sure.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.920
Uh he was no Oliver Cromwell in that sounds like that.
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:14.239
That's true.
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.960
He's better than yeah, there's some there's somehow people have been worse.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.679
Um has anybody been worse than Cromwell?
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:20.960
Maybe Lord Russell.
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:22.159
Maybe.
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:23.039
All right.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.480
That went dark quick.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:25.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:26.400
Just look it up on Wikipedia.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:30.320
That's it's uh it's a long it's a long list of bad things.
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.760
No, I mean um yeah, this is this fascinates me.
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.800
I look really forward to seeing the the films you made.
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:37.280
Sure.
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.559
So we can go and get the settlement of Iceland indigo Yonah Saga at the library here.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:43.280
The book, yeah.
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.400
And if you're in Canada, you can access it on can you access it?
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:53.679
Yeah, the website is the Norse Women's Saga series, or my my website is MacLeodNumber9.com.
00:38:53.840 --> 00:39:06.639
And you go in the film section and you can see it because the Norse Women's Saga series, uh I have learning guides um that are kind of principled in the teaching methodology of the National Film Board of Canada.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:13.039
They do these guides where you would ask questions before viewing the film, ask questions after viewing the film, and recommended projects.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:21.280
And then there's a secondary guide that shows the whole process because I'm at a stage of my life I want to mentor, I want to keep our industries alive.
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:22.960
So they're free for teachers.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:40.800
They can just download the PDFs, and that um the production notes really explains the whole process of you know, from inception, uh pre-production development, and and to the delivery of the films, and um to encourage young people to tell stories and to learn from these as well.
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:50.239
So that's sort of again my ethos and in what I do is to uh pay it forward, give it back, yeah, and make it accessible, you know.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.000
Um that old saying, we if we don't learn from our history, we're doomed to repeat it.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:54.400
Yeah.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:40:00.480
We seem to keep repeating it, but um no, again, north of the border, it seems to be going pretty well.
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:05.119
Um Yeah.
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:09.360
Uh uh one small note I want to make about this this sagas.
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:18.639
Um and what I have always loved about Icelandic sagas, probably what brought me to this country, was because I had studied Icelandic sagas at the University of Wisconsin, yeah.
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:19.679
Uh Madison.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:26.960
And uh the prominence of women I know we talk about that the that they were slaves.
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.239
There was a slave culture, but obviously the the culture was mixed, right?
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:36.320
A lot of the literary culture, I know I know it's Norse, but there was a lot of Irish culture in the way they told their stories.
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:44.800
And the prominence of women characters and their importance in all the sagas, in many of the the great sagas, um should can't be overstated, I think.
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:51.440
It's it's it's a real I mean we c uh well the other last week I met four Malcorkas, right?
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:53.599
She's the major character in Lochstella saga.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:55.039
Yes, and a slave.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:56.960
And and of course a slave, yeah.
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.280
No, I mean uh women are really prominent characters in a lot of the sagas.
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:03.119
In Lochstella saga, in Yol Saga.
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:10.559
I mean, not for like you know, the the main female character in that book is not exactly a um a hero.
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:12.400
Right, which is actually kind of cool too.
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:13.360
Very cool.
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:13.840
Yeah.
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:18.800
Uh and it's it it's it's it's all over the it's all over the saga.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:32.159
Even even when you get the Grethr saga, which is kind of a retailing of retelling of Beowulf or different telling of Beowulf, you still have a more interesting woman characters there, you which is maybe the least representative, but it's still really really fascinating and progressive.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.400
I I have to mention uh archaeologist I worked with, uh Michelle Hare Smith.
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:44.159
She worked at the uh National Museum, and she had worked on the that exhibition was called Bundled Up in Blue, and it was from 2015 to 2017.
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.480
I just thankfully caught it at the end.
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:48.000
But Michelle opened me up.
00:41:48.079 --> 00:42:06.880
I worked with textile artists, women artists here that had reproduced the the uh the costume, the jewelry, and so forth, because um uh I I use composite, so I use voice actresses here in Iceland and uh my friend Austis uh Sniff uh Sifgunner's daughter, she was one of the composites.
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.079
And uh there was one Burgess Julia, she was amazing.
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:25.280
She's from Kettlestadder, and I know I'm pronouncing that butchering the word, but she was from that town, and when she was being dressed in the costume uh that Marl Madder and uh uh Marianna Gluckelsberg had done, uh she said, Where was the woman's body found?
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:27.840
And I said, Kettlestadder, and she says, Well, that's where my family's from.
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.800
And what was so weird is the costume fit her perfectly.
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:50.079
It was just so I had constant synchronicities with women, and not only could we not have, you know, could Iceland not have existed without the women to produce enough people to make it a sustainable place, but for me, my whole experience in doing these projects, all the women, it was Tina Augustader who did score all the music for the films.
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:54.320
Fantastic, originally from Vikjavik, and uh she lives in Stockholm now.
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.920
Uh studied jazz at Concordia and in Montreal.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:07.679
Um, and I found out I saw her at this where I met the the ambassador, she was singing in a choral group of women uh who are singing traditional uh Rimur singers.
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:08.639
Yeah, right, yeah.
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:15.360
Yeah, so she was doing that, and it was beautiful, beautiful music, and was able to locate her and get her email address.
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.599
And would you do the soundtrack for these films?
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:18.800
Yes, I'm in.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:23.840
So not only women's contribution back in this period, but women's contribution now.
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:30.480
And that's something that a best practice or a way of life here that really blew my mind in Iceland when I first came.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:37.039
Um, Eliza Reed, Canadian, who uh I've met twice now, uh, her book Spracha, you know, the women who are changing Iceland.
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.159
That was uh another wonderful uh sort of inspiration.
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:43.440
Eliza Reed being the former former first lady of Iceland.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.239
Yeah, exactly.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:46.159
Yeah, and a former food editor for this magazine.
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:47.679
Yes, a former colleague here.
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:48.559
Yeah, I didn't know that.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:50.880
She actually contributed to the best of Reykjavik uh food.
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:52.239
Oh, yeah, last year, yeah.
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:53.360
Okay, fantastic.
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.280
And she still has her writer's residency, right?
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.719
She runs a writer's residency program here in Reykjavik, yeah.
00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah, fabulous.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:01.280
So yeah.
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:03.599
Oh excellent.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:11.360
I'm like it's like a very like We're trying to focus on your being a cool rock photographer and then another cool thing.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:13.119
And then we get you know we get both things.
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:13.920
It's it's great.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:26.079
So like uh and you know I love rock music and I love rock photography, but I always sagas come from very I'm very sagonyth.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:27.360
Thank you for bringing that up.
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:32.400
That means a lot actually, because uh I have that uh that part of me as well that was very nerdy as a kid.
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:40.800
I used to uh read esterix obeliques, uh Lucky Luke, um Spirou Fantasio, all those Belgian uh how do we say that in English?
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:42.400
Asterix and obeliques?
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:42.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:43.840
Lucky Luke, I guess.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.280
That's right, Lucky Luke and uh Spirou and Fantasio.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:51.840
Those all those Belgian French uh I love that as a kid.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:59.360
So yeah, I I grew up with all of these because they were all translated, and I'm not sure they were that big in the United States.
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:04.239
No, they didn't take off the United States, but uh my son and I are working on asterisk in Icelandic.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:04.880
Oh, are you?
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:14.239
Um we all moved back last year, so trying to re-readjust to the Icelandic language, force a teenager to learn Icelandic.
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.559
There's a bit tricky, but asterisk can help.
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:28.639
Well, one of my favorite trivias about uh asterisk and Oplex is and I only realized this very late, is that you know the whole thing that Julius Caesar's always referring to himself in the third person.
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:30.159
Have you noticed this?
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:31.280
No, no, no.
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:33.360
He always will refer to himself in the third person.
00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:41.199
I was like, okay, this is weird, and then that gets passed, and then I read the Calic Wars by Julius Caesar, which he writes and refers to himself in the third person.
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:41.760
Okay.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:46.320
Very smart joke by the Belgian guys there.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:46.960
Oh yeah.
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:49.440
Not lost on the Emperor Motif, right?
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.559
I guess they all got classical education or something.
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:57.280
Yeah, anyway, that's uh Did you ever read uh Moebius uh the Inkle?
00:45:57.440 --> 00:45:58.400
Do you know that series at all?
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.280
It was in heavy metal magazine when I was a teenager.
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:02.159
I used to read that one.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.239
I found it here in one of the bookstores.
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:05.679
I bought it for my son as well.
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:13.599
But the the caveat here, I might not know it might have an Icelandic like translation, and I wouldn't know what it is what Mobius would be there.
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:14.079
Beautiful.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.559
You can see if you've seen Blade Runner by Ridley Scott.
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.480
Wait, are you talking about the artist Mobius?
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:19.440
Yeah, Mobius, yeah.
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:20.000
Oh, okay.
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:21.199
Do you know his yes?
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.920
I love Mobius.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:23.119
Yeah, it's fabulous.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:27.360
Perhaps I know what you're talking about, but it had a very different lifeline translation.
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.920
The the lead character's name was John DeFoole.
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:35.519
And he's a a cop who's trying to figure out I mean I can see Ridley Scott.
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:49.199
Mobius, so yeah, we're talking about the great graphic novelist Mobius, who does um even if you follow mass culture, he actually did re-invent rewritings of major like superhero things in in America.
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:52.079
Sometimes for some but is he based in France, maybe?
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:52.559
Yes.
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.039
And uh in France he's like a rock star.
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:55.599
Yeah, definitely.
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:57.280
It's a comic book artist.
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:10.400
Like I I can think of no equivalent to the maybe Alex Ross, the the guy who does uh who did um Kingdom Come uh in US comics, but that's very hard, very obscure.
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.079
Whereas Mobius is like a big deal.
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:12.480
Yes.
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:13.199
Wow, okay.
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:13.519
Yeah.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.679
Oh, we share a lot of stuff in common, lads.
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:16.239
Yeah.
00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:32.000
Yeah, I th this opens uh this this is back to the thing you mentioned earlier, which is that uh Canada through the the the French connection have a stronger cultural tie with mainland Europe than North America perhaps sometimes does when it comes to popular culture.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.440
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of uh French immigration too to Montreal.
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:41.199
You can walk in the plateau area when you'll hear like French accent from Paris or one from the south, or you know.
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:49.440
So there's a yeah, it it's it's again a fusion place, uh not only in in food uh but in other as well.
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:53.039
Uh and it's it's an amazing thing uh to have grown up.
00:47:53.199 --> 00:48:02.239
My parents gave me uh the great privilege of being in a multicultural society, learning a second language in a time where Anglos didn't go into the French school system in the 70s.
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:11.519
So uh you know I kind of remember my father trying to convince the directres was uh she was a nun at this elementary school when we first moved to Montreal.
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:13.519
And uh he says, But if Mr.
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.760
McLeod, you can send your kids to English school, no problem.
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:20.559
He says, Yeah, but if they don't have the language, they don't have the polter, uh they don't have the culture.
00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:22.800
The the language is the portal to the culture.
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:25.920
And she he just she was stopped, you know.
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:29.920
She obviously had been indoctrinated in a certain way that French and English must be separate.
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:44.880
But I was part of that wave of bilingual Canadians in in Quebec and Montreal that that we flourished as a result, you know, having more than one language like you have here in Iceland, you all know English, it's amazing, and uh it was just such a gift.
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:55.760
And uh having a knowledge of a multicultural society when I traveled as a young man, I had you know, I knew what uh certain foods were in Spain and Italy, and I can order them.
00:48:55.840 --> 00:49:01.840
I remembered some of the Italian words, and it just felt like it was a great bridge and connection to the others.
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:11.280
And uh I think there's this value in being in a multicultural society like Canada or any of the big American cities or European cities, like we're richer for it.
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:11.599
Yeah.
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:11.920
Yeah.
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:23.599
Instead of this intolerance and this idea we're gonna make something great again by eliminating that diversity or that fusion, uh I find that uh that that's not the way forward at all.
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:24.159
No.
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.239
No, it's uh it's cruel and dumb, is what I think about it, but that's just me.
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:29.760
Politics of negation.
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:38.719
So I'm sorry, I just want to recap because uh because what I'm going through is uh re-readjusting to a bilingual life.
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:42.800
Um what age were you when you started the French school in Month?
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.679
Um we moved to Montreal, I was five.
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:46.159
Okay.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:46.480
Yeah.
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:53.119
So I started uh I actually I went to a Jewish it was a Protestant school board, but predominantly a Jewish neighborhood.
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:54.960
And uh it was bilingual.
00:49:55.199 --> 00:50:07.119
So you had Sephardic, you know, North North African, you know, Moroccan, Algerian, and then Quebec and uh Eastern European Jewish families, and we were of that mentality.
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:13.119
Uh, I was we were the one token, you know, the Scottish guys with the uh the blue Christmas tree on the block.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:16.320
And um, but it Wait, blue Christmas tree.
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:22.559
Yeah, my dad was fixated on having a green Christmas tree with blue light, so it glowed blue in the front room.
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:28.960
So we were like the the token Scottish Irish people with the uh the one Christmas tree on the block.
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:32.159
But it you know, again, a testament to my father.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.719
Yeah, I said, Dad, I'm not gonna have a bar mitzvah.
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.079
I can't do this, I can't do that.
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:36.800
What's this?
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:40.159
And he says, uh I said, I want to go to their temple.
00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:43.039
I want to go, I want to, but I don't have a yamaka and stuff like that.
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:45.280
So he knocked on my best friend's door and said, Mr.
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.920
Saffron, would you allow my son to go to, I think it was Sukat, one of the holidays.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.039
And he said, Mr.
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:52.320
McLeod, but you're not Jewish.
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.559
Why we said, I want my son to be open.
00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:11.280
So off I went to synagogue that night, and you know, I never converted or anything, but it was the fact that my dad was actually open to letting me explore something and uh opening up a discourse and a dialogue, again, having tolerance, you know, with this is where we should be going uh as a society.
00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:13.840
And again, the gratitude for moving.
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:18.880
My mom was from Western Canada, you know, the Texas of uh Canada, Alberta.
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.599
My dad was from Cape Breton, the very Scottish.
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:26.239
And then, you know, he got his uh job as a pilot, test pilot there.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:38.320
And uh again, uh the the gifts uh that it it bestowed on my sister and I um gave us a great wealth in our lived experience, you know, in our work and travel.
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:45.760
Yeah, and you seem to be, as you said, paying it forward with actually showing people, giving people some tools to express themselves and hopefully affect change.
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.079
Uh and uh on on you go from here.
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:50.480
Uh you say from here you go on to Germany?
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.719
I'll go back to Canada and back to Montreal and then to Germany in March, yeah.
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:56.559
Okay when the festival uh passes.
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:59.679
So well, hopefully you can stop by here again and we can do this again.
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.280
I would love that.
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:13.599
Because uh I I I misprepared and was only obsessed with these rock these rock photos, and uh it turns out we have other interests uh uh uh that we share.
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:21.119
And also, as we were talking before, we're also I was a teacher, and you also do uh artists in residency programs, which would be fantastic.
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.960
In fact, we should uh hopefully you can actually come by my kids' schools maybe.
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:29.039
Oh, but my youngest is so fascinating with the physical art.
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:29.280
Okay.
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:35.519
Uh um, as you were mentioning, the idea of showing kids these days how to use carbon paper, it blows their minds.
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:36.639
Make a zine.
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:36.800
Yeah.
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:43.119
We do a lot of zine making at home because obviously I run a magazine and she wants to do her own magazine, right?
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:45.760
So you just staple some A4 papers together.
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:53.440
But uh but anyway, the the physical makeup making physical art really um astounds people who are stuck with this digital world.
00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:00.320
Well, I'm gonna give you a little gift then, knowing your passion for this, for you can share with your your kids.
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:08.000
I have an extra one, you don't have one there, but let me uh let me give you the uh the indigo Iona saga and the settlement of Iceland.
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:09.119
So that's for you and your family.
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:10.320
Oh, thank you so much.
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:20.239
Um and on that note, we should uh conclude our drop-in, which was a genuine drop-in, and also uh uh uh another Canadian drop-in.
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:29.599
So our Western Icelanders uh well you're uh despite the fact that you are made up of the people who settled Iceland, you are technically uh Icelandic heritage, right?
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:34.559
You're I I did ask, I said, are you comfortable with this Canadian of you know Hiberninos background?
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:36.000
Of course, we traded with you.
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:40.000
Yeah.
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:41.039
For myself.
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:43.360
I mean, thank you so much for dropping in.
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:44.320
Oh, thank you guys.
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:45.440
I really enjoyed this today.
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:46.800
This is you made my day.
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.199
Oh lovely, and some nice Icelandic coffee.
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:50.000
That was great.
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:51.519
Yeah, sorry about the coffee.
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:54.000
Uh well, until next time.
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:54.559
Bye-bye.
00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:55.679
All right, see you later.
00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:56.639
Thanks very much.
