speaker-0: Hello dear chess lovers, I have a very special guest today, Robert Ramirez, National Master, Chessable Author, amazing YouTuber, teacher, educator, and guy I really admire. Welcome to the show, Robert. It's a great pleasure to finally host you, man.
speaker-1: Thank you for having me here and yeah yeah glad to be part of this.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's early morning in Florida and you already told me you already gave a lesson at seven in the morning, so your chest brain is still working and fully operating at twelve past eight.
speaker-1: left whatever is left of my brain is operating, yeah.
speaker-0: That's that's good, man. That's good to know. Because I'll be asking you so many nice chess questions today, you know, about also cognitive science, psychology. But also I'll be selfish today. I also ask you to convince me to create a chessable opening course finally, because you're an expert when it comes to that. So I will be just bombarding you with some interesting questions. Of course, Robert doesn't require any introduction, guys. My YouTube followers, right? He's one of the most you know well known YouTubers. But I think what also separates Robert is His educational approach and his organic growth that he did across the years, ever since the COVID times, that he created this YouTube channel, and from the very beginning, he was very educational and he actually created so much free content for from beginners all the way to masters, I would say. And he had this amazing organic growth over the years, and that led to his amazingly successful chesable courses, right? So he's a guy I actually admire also. He's a let's say a new YouTuber. I'm only here for like a year. So Robert is the guy that's sort of my model, and it's a pleasure to talk to you about this as well, Robert.
speaker-1: to hear Mr.
speaker-0: Yes. by the way, Robert has been to a perpetual chess podcast, folks. I will just post a link here. So this was like maybe five months ago. You can hear all of his background, his his upbringing in Cuba, and how he came to the States. He lives in Florida right now, and all of his personal stories also you can find in that Ben Johnson episode. So I won't repeat it just to avoid redundancy. I'll be asking you different questions today, hopefully, Robert. Right? Yes.
speaker-1: You got it. You got it.
speaker-0: So you know, Robert, like to me, one I have a writer block when it comes to creating opening courses on Chesable. You know, like because I always ask myself, I th it's also perfectionism, I think, because if I create an opening course, to me, openings always connect to middle games, middle games connect to end games. So it becomes a huge task suddenly in my brain. If I ever create an opening course, like how am I gonna sp stop? How can I create a course that is on let's say only a hundred lines? You know, which sounds impossible. I tried it last year. I sit down and create a neither of course, neither of us, by the way, a very bad choice probably.
speaker-1: Work for a big monster anyway.
speaker-0: And only after like four months I realized, my god, this is too complex, you know, I have to stop. So I stopped. Now I'm still thinking, maybe I will create one about slow. Has to be practical, also beginner-friendly, you know. I'm thinking about system openings and you actually created two courses on Chesterball about system openings, one in King's Indian and Perth Peertz, sorry, Pierce of course, and the other one is about the reverse stonewall, right? Stonewall attack. So what is your take then when it comes to the opening approach of the advantages of such system openings over let's say more mainline openings? What do you say? Well
speaker-1: to me I I always say the same thing and to me playing system has been the only way because as many of you already know I started late and when I started a lot of my my opponents they already had a very good repertoire. Like I remember the top kids at the Chess Academy they already were playing these complicated lines of the Dragon Sicilian and to me it was like I remember seeing some sacrifices on C3 like to the rook on C eight and then sacrifice and to me it was like okay if I have to invest time to learn all of this theory which is very easy to forget then how am I gonna learn What truly matters, which is the middle game and the end game. So
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: part because of that, but also part because I'm by nature I'm very lazy. I'm like, no, no, no. I need something that is easy to learn, easy to implement, and that gives me an edge. So that's why I started with the Pierce defense and the Kings Indian defense. Now I think for any player systems are very very useful because you cut off a lot of preparation, a lot of memorization, which sadly, even if I just load your brain right now with all the theory, if you don't play it in a week you're gonna forget it. So that's one of the benefits from my point of view. And and at the end of the day we all know you could play perfectly for ten, fifteen, twenty moves. If your middle game is weak, if your end game is weak, then it all goes away. Openings is ten percent of the game. So that's why for me, just keep it. Simple with the opening and learn something that as a system that all you need to know is where do where the pieces go, the typical plans after that, and then just play chess. That's it. I personally I've played at the master level, and I can tell you that even if I get a position where I know I have an advantage, like I review with the computer after, and the computer says, Hey, you had plus five, plus six, plus seven, I know I cannot convert easily. It's not like, if you play the perfect opening and you get a plus seven advantage, you're gonna convert. It's not the case. So many things go. Wrong. So that's why I prefer that if you tell me, you know what, I have all the time in the world, I enjoy the night or for example, go for it. Because at the end of the day, you're going to learn a lot of chess too by learning openings. People think, if you learn an opening, you're only learning that's that opening and that's it. No, you learn a lot of chess. There are lines that that have a lot of tactics and positional ideas behind them. So if you understand the why behind the moves, you're learning a lot of. chess. Plus, as you know, learning an opening also requires re reviewing master games. So that process is gonna improve your chess by a lot. And it's fun man, I I cannot tell you it's not fun, we all love openings. The problem becomes when you prioritize it over tactics and middle game strategy and and end game. But yeah, bottom line I think that's what it does. The system gives you it's easy, time you save a of time and then you can use it for middle game and any
speaker-0: Yeah. That that's actually the str strongest part I think of system openings. I will now talk about more about cognitive science and chunking and so on because that actually connects to that part as well. Right. When it comes to let's say chase expertise, it's mostly about those recurrent patterns and chunks and familiaring ourselves with those common structures that we know. So just to prevent overwhelm in that sense. And I think you would also agree, right? That's one of the strengths of system openings, that you you generally tend to look at similar structures that cut down on this mess of strange things that you tend to see. You count down on these things and especially for adults, right? Would you then say it's actually even better for adult players those system openings compared to beginners.
speaker-1: I honestly don't like to separate players between adults and or learners and kids because to me it's more about free time and not free time. The problem with adults is that we don't have free time. Like look at myself. Like when I when I first got into chess, I was twelve, thirteen, right? What did I have to do? Just go to school, come back, go play soccer, get into fights with my friends. That was my life, right? So breaking chess into it, pfft I could put I I used to put a lot of time into it. I I did it for three years, but I put a lot of time in in those years because I had the time. Now I have two kids, I have my wife, I have my life. So I'm lucky if I can put an hour aside to do chess. So if you're an adult, you have a busy life. I'm sorry, my friend, you cannot spend two hours a day of doing reviewing your openings. You just can't. Yeah. And especially if you play in tournaments. Like I had a question the other day, someone sent me an email. Hey, I went over your chessable course about the Pierce Defense and the Kings Indian defense, and I don't like that you didn't include this line and this line and design because I have it on the YouTube channel. Right? And
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: the answer was very simple. Look, when I did the content on the YouTube channel, I used to play this line and this line and this line. But I realized every time I had a tournament, I started reviewing my lines, I have to spend two hours to review these lines because they're so complex. So those two hours I could be using them to train my tactics or just rest or review some games. But I do spend it to review those specific lines. I go to the tournament, I play three games as black. Nobody plays those tricky lines. Right. I just wasted those two hours. And then the next tournament that I play in a month or two or three, I forgot it already, so I have to review it again. So that's why I said instead of playing this line that is so complex, let me pick this one that is simpler. I'm not gonna forget it. I don't I don't need to dedicate two hours for it. And that's it.
speaker-0: Right, right, right. Because there's also one more question, right? Let's say playing the devil's advocate here, right? So if you look at other guys like Andra Stolt for example, right? Like he hates London, he thinks it's just limiting one's chess understanding. Because that's one of the key, let's say, you know, counter arguments against this. Do you think right? Do you do you think systems also is this drawback of limiting one's chess, especially for those foundational years, at the early years of one's chess life, if you only play system opening, do you think there are such disadvantages? As well. Also, comp con for example, think about the Stonewall bishop on C one, right? He would probably say under a thought, hey, you know, the the guys are learning bad habits to play with a terrible bishop on c one and things like this, right? Do you have something as that?
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. So I agree with him. So the downside to playing a system is that you become really good at it, but then you don't get exposure to a lot of other things. Meaning that if they get you out of that system, you're gonna be uncomfortable, right? You're not gonna be probably as as effective. But
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: the way that I deal with it and that I dealt with it when I was learning is Part of your chess training in general, if you play systems or if you play clo more classical openings regardless, you should have as part of your training a proportion where you review master games. You got you gotta have a day where you say today I'm gonna review Master Games. And in that part of your training, you're gonna review games from openings that are now your opening. So that's why you you know what, I play the Stonewall and the Pierce Defense. That's my world, that's what I really like. But when I review Master Games, I reviewed this game that Kasparov played the Sicilian, the Nightorf. guy played the the scotch game and even though I don't play that I'm getting exposure to it. So all of those patterns that I'm missing because I don't play those classical openings. I'm getting exposure to it. And and in the Pierce defense for example multiple times for the Kingston defense I get into positions that are from all the openings. Often I go from the Pierce to Sicilian defense opening positions. And I'm like I'm not uncomfortable because I have reviewed games. I don't know it a hundred percent. I'm not an an expert, but I understand what the plan is. Same thing. You could go from the Sicilian I mean from the King's Indian to the Benoni for
speaker-0: Let's say bin on it, yes.
speaker-1: Exactly. And now if you don't review any other games, you're gonna be lost. But for me and my students, whenever we're gonna talk about it, like if we're gonna have a lesson on attacking up opposite sides. I'm gonna try to give them games where they use different openings and that way they get the exposure to it. And I think that's how you solve it. That's how has worked for me. Because if you read any books, when I first learned my coach always told me, you should start with openings like E4, E5 openings, right? Open games, because you get exposure to the tactics. And as I started to work as a coach and work with different people I got the impression that this is something that has been passed down from generation to generation. And we keep doing it because people keep saying it's good. Right. But I honestly don't know. I don't have evidence, so I don't wanna say anything against it. But I don't know how true it is. I think I think you're gonna be just fine as long as you get exposure to to everything. And bottom line, just don't give openings to motion porners unless you play at the top top level that you really need to.
speaker-0: Uh-huh. So despite the fact that your opening courses are I mean your two courses are on openings on Chaseable, you still claim that we should not spend so much time in those openings, but also
speaker-1: But if you look at the at the Chesable courses that I have out there or the opening material that I have on YouTube, you could do those courses in a few hours. Like if you look at Peterson and Kingstadium Defense, you could do it in three, four, five hours, you get the ideas, that's it, you don't have to look at it again. And the same thing for the stone stonewall, even less. Probably three, four hours of your time you got it on the control. And if you look at the reviews of those courses on Chesable, that's why you hear, hey, very easy to learn, I'm already using it, I'm loving it. That's it. Now I also have students who tell me, man, I get it, I know what you're saying, but I love to study opening. I just like it. Fine, go ahead and do it. As long as you do what you have to do and then like I have a student of mine, Sam. He's very organized. He has binders with his openings and everything and so many books. But I don't mind it because he puts the time to do his middle game and his end game. He did what he had to do and then at the end he has more free time 'cause he's always traveling and he just reviews all the openings. Fine, you're doing what you what you wanna do. The problem is when you are only reviewing openings and opening traps and you're you're not doing your tactics, you're not doing your end game and so
speaker-0: Right. You know, it's funny because I was talking to Fernand Gobay. Do you Fernand Gobet? He's this international master, the god of good the god of chess research. He's a he's a professor in London. I mean he's he published so many articles and even books about chess and the psychology of chess, cognitive science behind chess. Right? He's he's really number one guy to go to when it comes to all the scientific evidence and so he's a international master himself, by the way. He played against Kasparov, like in Anant, like he's you can check his games on chess chess games.com. I mean he's an extremely strong player too. So we were you know considering to maybe apply for a project together like a couple of years ago and of course I also asked him this question you know like what is your take on openings like given scientific perspective and so on He even wrote an article about chess improvement. I will actually post a link here on this video. So his point was also the same. He was talking about those system openings. He he's he was saying that if he was starting N right now, he was he was not going to go for Nydorf, but let's say something more boring like London, that the chunks are established in your brain, those typical middle game ideas, and even he says. You should go to the end game, let's say, you should keep the pawn structure because pawn structures are usually the most stable, right? So you basically remove all the pieces, keep the pawn structure, and gradually add pieces. Let's say add one bishop for both sides and play that endgame. Let's say add knights for both sides, play the end game and gradually bring more pieces, add more pieces to the same pawn structure. He even calls this decomposition method. So he decomp decomposes. the position and gradually add pieces. This way also connects it to the end game of course, right? It's all about these recurrent chunks and connections that you make from your opening to the middle game and to the end game actually. Yeah. I was impressed, yeah.
speaker-1: But there's only one problem that I have with that method. It is too boring for people to do it. People won't do it. Even though they will do it. People are gonna be like, nah, I want someone to tell me what the the trial that I could do here. That's
speaker-0: Right. Going for trips.
speaker-1: like when when I did this latest course on the Stonewall, I added a a a section that I thought was pretty cool, which is I said, Okay, we talked about this line. Now this is a an end game that you could get, a typical end game. So basically I just removed all the pieces, left the pawn structure that you get out of the opening, and then based on the pond structure this is what you should aim for in the opening. I'm like, this is all cool. I'm like why didn't I think of this earlier? Nobody cares.
speaker-0: Nobody cares.
speaker-1: Cares about that because again people want something quick. How can I win ten, fifteen, ten moves? it's it's just the way it is. Now I I'm lucky that I have some students who really enjoy the end game. Like I just tell them, hey look, I know this is boring, but we have to and they're like, no, no, no, I really love it. I and I could be there for hours. That's great. But most people, especially the with the younger kids, they hate it. They just wanna play bullet and memorize openings. And it's it's just the way it is. But yeah, what you just said makes perfect sense. And how many times have we read that you should learn chess backwards? Learn the end game.
speaker-0: Reverse engineering. Cabablanca. Yes.
speaker-1: Exactly, right? But it's easier said than done. Unless you have someone to push you and remind you, you're just not gonna wanna do it. You wanna do something more fun like.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: also Rush doing the things like that. It's
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: just the way it is.
speaker-0: No, human psychology, right? I think that's also one reason why opening courses are so popular. Like if you go to YouTube, like all these traps are so popular, you know, it's like human psychology, going for short term candies rather than you know long term growth. Right, exactly. We don't we don't see that benefit directly. It's a long term approach, basically. But science supports it, right? Guys, like yeah, if you're hardcore chess improvers, science really supports this, that you have to make connections, of course. But I understand people have a hard time doing that. Maybe coaches can help you with that, setting up some positions and game. positions from your opponent structures, maybe there will be some bot in the future, like human-like bots that you can try and play against those bots from those structures to improve those chunkings basically, those chunks
speaker-1: But absolutely goes down to I I remember I read some at some point something like how humans we don't think of the future self as ourself, right? Like if you think yourself in five years, it's like a completely different person. Like if you have to make a sacrifice now to help yourself in five years, it's difficult because it's like it's a different guy. I'm not doing it for myself, it's over a different guy.
speaker-0: Exactly.
speaker-1: If you really keep that in perspective, then you'd be more willing to put in the work right now. And not only in chess, in personal life. Like maybe you have to s not go out so much and save some money now so that in the future you could do something. It's difficult to give up that now so that you could do something in five, ten years. Yeah. And we see it in we see it in chess.
speaker-0: Yeah. My last two guests mentioned exactly the same point. Like Nick Vasquez was here last time and he says he told himself, you know, he I I I will not improve in one year. Like I'm accepting that no improvement might take place in one year, but after one maybe two years I will see the the real effect of it. So he already starts with that mentality. Also Solwai said the same thing, Solwai Freebag, she says it's like checking the stock market every day, right? Like let's say you have some money, if you keep on checking every single day you you get miserable. So you have to like forget about that, right? You have to trust it and you have to like go for the future. Growth in that sense. Exactly. Very similar approach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, because then we discussed, you know, let's say potential disadvantages of system openings. And so far, of course, you mentioned a couple of things as well. You mentioned maybe not seeing double positions, but you try to solve it by looking at master games, for example. But there's also this element of predictability right you become a target in the tournaments because people know exactly what you're gonna play, right? You're this King's Indian guy, you this Perth guy. So it was it a problem for you personally in your tournament games?
speaker-1: Never man, that's all I have ever played. And what I my argument is the following. If you prepare an opening, whatever opening it is, I mean you prepare it to the point that you really like it. Like you're ready for anything. So there's no way just because someone knows where you play, they're gonna get you in trouble. If you really know your opening, you will be fine regardless, right? So If not what's the point? Now I also agree when I first started, you didn't have this element of people preparing beforehand. Like now you put my name on on on the internet and my name comes up, you could see my past games, you can see what I play, you could prepare specific lines. That could be very annoying. Now the way you solve that is by having a second opening. Or maybe a different line within your opening. Like for example, the Pierce defense or the King's Indian defense, they're so flexible That you could play against the same person, the same system in different ways. Right. You could play more aggressive in the center or more on the queen side. You could play with c6. Like in the course, I give like three, four different plans. You could use him however you like. And often that's what I do. I play the same guy. Okay, this time let me play this other line. And you do that. Or you could have a second opening just to surprise your opponents. Like I play, I've always played Pierce defense and King's defense. But I have the Groomfield defense too. I've never played the Grunfeld as my main opening because it's so complex. So
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: much theory, right? But guess what? I have it there just in case I need to surprise someone. And I've used it only like two, three times in tournaments, and I've won every single time. Because people expect me to play King City. Yeah, and boom. And after the game I ask, I had one against Natural Master Theodore Slade. and at after the game I told him, Hey, did you prepare against my King City defense? And he was like, Yeah, yeah, I prepared it now. And then when When he saw D5, I got him. But you know, at the end of the day, the Grunfeld not only is also a system, but it's very similar to my King's Indian defense and my Pierce Defense. It has the Fianchero element.
speaker-0: Hypermodern approach, yes.
speaker-1: Exactly. So to me it's more not only that, I also I one of the latest tournaments I've played, I played the Hippo setup, the hippo opening. A lot of people hate the hippo. But guess what? I took my opponent by surprise, he was not expecting it. So I won that game very nicely, very nice game actually, but at the end of the day I'm not going too far from home. I'm playing this hypermodern approach as well. And and that's it. Now that Hippo game I did not even prepare it. I know what the Hippo is about, but I have a lot of experience with this hypermodern approach. And I made it work. So I I don't think there's a problem and also regardless of the opening, if you play the Night Orf, people are gonna prepare against you anyways. Like if you play ten games with the Night Dorf And that's the problem because in my case, if they surprise me with the system, it's easy for me to say, wait, wait, wait. These are my plans typically, what what do I want to do? I know the typical things. You cannot go too far from it. If you prepare something very specific in the night dwarf and you don't know it You're
speaker-0: I know, I know.
speaker-1: gonna at the very least you're gonna spend a lot of time trying to
speaker-0: You know man. So many people, so many p because I'm a Nidorf player myself, right? because I I Kaspero was my noble player, Fisher. So that was my first ever opening as a teenager, right? You can imagine. And I got crashed so many times by those bishop g five players, you know, like sacrifice
speaker-1: And is it the thing and that's very important, like when you play systems, a lot like the London system for example, you're not really making contact from the from the beginning. You're not really attacking right away, right? So I read once and that was very useful for me, that when you play in system or slow openings, every tempo doesn't really matter. Like you could waste a move and you'll be fine, because there it's not a chart position. So that's the benefit of systems against someone who prepared against you.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: They get you off guard, fine, but it there's not it's not a sharp position. Now if you play a King's Gambit, a Night Orf, and you mix the move order, I mean you confuse the move order or you skip a move, you're done. You're done. I'm sorry, but you're done. So that's another good benefit to of playing.
speaker-0: Absolutely. There's less contact, less committal, let's say a single decision isn't so crucial as in Nidorf even Grunfeld I would Grunfeld is also quite sharp, right? So so these are some of the advantages that you can at least protect yourself, right? Even though you're targeted, you can protect yourself with different plans.
speaker-1: Always be new elements.
speaker-0: Is that what you do on your courses? You give them a couple of middle game plans, typical plans, right?
speaker-1: That's it, that's we do. We I I call it the toolbox. You have a tool you get to the setup, you where the pieces go for the Pierce defense, so the King's Indian defense. And then you have a toolbox with three, four plans. And you just gotta pick one of those. That's it. If you understand what these three, four plans are about, you get the middle game figured out. And then as you play it more and more it becomes it becomes easier for you. That's it. Like often when I'm pla I'm doing live streams or something like that People tell me I'm like, okay, I got to the middle game and I'm I'm like, let me think, what should I do here? And then they ask me, Didn't you just have a course on that? Don't you ha haven't you've been playing this for twenty years, how can you have to think about what to do next? And I tell them, it's not that I don't know what to do. It's just that I now have these three plans, these three options from this move number ten. I just want to see which one is more appropriate in this moment. I just don't know it every single time, but I know these are my plans, then my job is to pick the right one. If I pick the wrong plan Like if they cancel opposite side, I know I have to play C6, B5, expand on the clean side. If I choose the wrong plan, I can get in trouble. So I know my plans, but I still have to think which one do I use, right? That's
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: what we do. And one more thing about that subject, I always talk about this kid. There's a kid in a local club that I go in Miami. He started and in like a year, he went all the way to 1800 over the board. I mean, no doubt he has to be very talented, very smart. But this kid only played London system as white. Uhhuh. And he played like an old Indian setup, like a Philly door as black. So D six, nine of six, and then E five. And then he puts the nine on D seven, the pun on C six, Queen C seven, very quiet. Man, everyone knows who the guy played. He's not gonna change it. He's just playing the same thing. No one can beat the guy. But guess what? He's playing when I talk to other people, like what is he doing? Like of course he has like two hundred coaches, like he's putting like twenty hours a day. But he's not only doing his tactics and everything else, but the guy plays like I think twenty games a day. Now playing the same openings. Imagine if you play twenty games a day, times three. That's like six hundred games a month. Playing the same old things. You review every single game afterwards, on your own, with your computer, with your coaches. I mean after six months I think you're really good at that. And then you could bring whatever you want. How do you break down the fiddle defense? How do you break down the old Indian? Maybe The guy can claim that he has an advantage of the opening but he doesn't care. But move number forty when you're tired of trying to punish him, he's going to outplay you and that's what he's done.
speaker-0: Right. It becomes a second nature because of this recurrent patterns and chunks in the middle game that he keeps ex exposing himself, typical end games he plays. In a system that is not as crazy sharp as Nidorf, right? Let's commit fool. Still objectively it's not terrible either. You can hold yourself. So I think it sound sounds like a very smart choice actually. I'm just thinking about you know the potential drawbacks to it, playing the devil's advocate, you know, like playing those London structures and Philodrus structures, can it be some some some drawbacks? I mean you still s you know keep on fighting for the center. It's not like a crazy hypermodern approach anyways, yeah you you like competitive surrender the center. So there's still, you know, some some nice chunks that you keep to other positions, let's say.
speaker-1: there's a line there I see him play. Like there's there there's another there there are these kids also in the in that club. They're like three kids, they all play chess and the dad also plays chess. So they have like a little team at home and they train together and it it's crazy. And they're young, so they have the time and the energy. They always try to defeat this other kid. And then they come up with this super complicated line. So there's a line in the affiliator where you play F4. And you
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: have E4, D4, and then F four as well. And guess what? This other kid, that's all he does. So he knows that tricky line. He knows it better than one guy who played it once because it
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Right. So after the his after the games you can hear you can hear him say, yeah, yeah, I've I've played this a million times. I was happy when you played it for. And to me that's that has been the story of my life. Just become really good at one thing. And that's it. Just make it your your baby.
speaker-0: That reminds me of the story that you mentioned to Ben Johnson, yeah, because I think if if I remember correctly, you played F four in one game and then after spending twenty-five minutes your opponent played E five, right? That that sacrifice. Yeah, but of course there's a higher chance that you know that sacrifice better than him as an F4 player, right? And then he was almost losing on time and he you beat him very easily, yeah.
speaker-1: Exactly and this is the same guy, very strong player by the way. I think before that game he had beat me every single time. very strong guy. I always struggled with him, always long games. This game it was very quick and I was very comfortable because I really knew it. He did not. He did not. And it was funny because in that game, last game of the tournament, that's actually the last tournament I played, I was in January. he he we needed to win to get to the first places. I played it for He sits down for ten minutes and as he's thinking, I'm thinking, okay, number one, he's he's surprised, he doesn't know how to play of against F4. And that's the thing. A little lot of people say, F4 virtual playing, it cannot be good. But nobody plays against it. And they don't have a system against it. But he's there as he's thinking, I'm I'm thinking Either he's really chart or he's trying to decide if he goes for the crazy E five line because he needs to win this game or not. When I saw E five in, I'm thinking, okay, if you have to spend ten minutes to make that move, you don't have a prepared.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: So now you're coming into my territory and it's not like I'm better than you are or a tactician like Tao, but I know it. I've played already at least a hundred games with it, I have made mistakes, I have repeated again with the engine. So I'm gonna be in my elements and exactly like the first ten, twelve, fifteen moves, I had not spent any time, he was down already like forty, forty five minutes in the first ten fifteen moves. And that's also important, you save time where you know your openings really well.
speaker-0: Right, right. I mean by the way, your chaseable course is it one F four or is it one D four?
speaker-1: No no it's D four. D four and then we get into the stonewall. A lot of people wanted me to do F four because they seen me play it on online and so on. The thing is with F four, they actually asked me if I wanted to do it on the bird, but the thing with the birds are putting two things. On the one It's way way bigger than the stonewall. Because they could do, for example, if they play E5, the From Scambit, that in itself has more theory and more preparation than all of the Stonewall. Right? So it'll be too much. not easy to to prepare and to digest. But also that's the opening that I've been playing as my main opening as well. So I don't want to put it out there for everyone to see. Because then you have that. People prepare very well. And and honestly, as much as I don't really care about off beat openings I played them, I think people should benefit from other openings like playing D four first and D four what I liked about that course is that it's not only the stonewall. Like if they play, for example, the the Dodge, D four, F five, I recommended to play the Stunton Gambit where you play E five. So
speaker-0: E four.
speaker-1: even though I'm trying to teach you a system, I'm also giving you exposure to other possessions and other other patterns. Like if you play the stone to gambit, that's a different monster. And anyone who tells you to play the the stonewall attack against the Dutch, they just tell you, play something within that system, right? Maybe call it collie, things like that. But I really enjoyed the fact that we can have E4. Complete different so we're a player that could do a system but you could also do a gambit. And
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: it gave me that flexibility as well.
speaker-0: Uh-huh, I see. Yeah, so a couple of ideas behind why you chose D four instead of F four. It makes perfect sense. Because then what would you recommend me? Because I have like ten chaseable courses, no opening courses. I think you already exhausted all the system openings, you know, Banzia took London, you took all what are the next steps then, you know, if you create a smart system opening repertoire. No
speaker-1: You I don't think it's only about doing a system, I think it's just making it in a way that you don't go too far in in the theory, right? remember most of the at least the opening s the courses that I did, every single line is up to move number ten, no more than that. As long as you can articulate the middle game plans, clearly you you'll be fine. Like that's the main problem. People and you know it, beginners, intermediates, what they want is to be handheld all day.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: They hate when you say open theory is over, good luck. If you're
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: able to say, Okay, this is move number ten, but from here you should try to attack on the queen side or you should try to attack on the king's side or these are the main plans, then that that's a different story. You could play I mean you could pick anything like I remember when I first started as black I used to play Pierce Defense, King's Indian Defense, but as white I used to play E4. And then I had a very simple repertoire with E4. Against E five, I'll play this the Fortnites with this catch game. So night of three, night c six, nice three, nine of six and then D four. That in itself is very simple. You don't have to go into a lot of theory as long as you explain the main ideas. Against Sicilian I had the Alapin. Now the Alapin you could make it a huge course on it, or you can make it very simple if you pick the right lines. Also, I I also recommend a lot the Vienna with I don't think we have any course in Chesable about the Vienna with
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: the G3 line. I think there are some on the F4, which gets sharp.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: I've played G3, I have a few students who played the G3 line against everything, and they do just fine. And again, it's it's just a system.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: I just think from what you're telling me you maybe wanted to be you were too ambitious and you wanted to do an eight or the
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: lines, you wanted to cover everything. Yes. And even if you accomplish that, people won't want it. People want something simpler. Absolutely.
speaker-0: Right. That that that was you know Sankos fallacy I realized after four months, man, I'm willing all this effort, no one will buy it, it's too complex, I've not even touched sidelines yet, what am I doing here? So then I stopped at that moment, yeah? Yeah.
speaker-1: And then the thing is if you go if you c if you don't cover everything they're gonna hate you for it because they want hey, someone played this weird line and you didn't tell me what to do. Yeah. But also if you go and cover everything, it's gonna be too long, too too much. Not to mention all the work that you have to put into it.
speaker-0: Yeah. And also put lots of words, you know, like explanations. So
speaker-1: I'll I'll give you an idea. If I had to do another one, I would do it on the English opening. The English opening you kn i number one, if you play Sicilian, you're very familiar with it. It's like a referred Sicilian with an extra tempo. But what I like about the English is that you could play it in so many different ways. Like I play the way when I play it, and when I recommend it on the YouTube channel, I recommend the bottomic triangle where you go C four, D three, E four, and then different cuto. That's a system in itself. You explain the strategic plans around the the triangle. You got yourself a system.
speaker-0: I made one video about this from Black's perspective, reversed what Phoenix set up actually.
speaker-1: And and that's that's an add on to it because you could play it as black as well.
speaker-0: Right. Maybe I okay, now I have some ideas. Now I have some ideas, Robert. You're giving me some ideas. That's good. Exactly right. It sound strategic. You can outplay people, not as crazy clashing as Nydorf, you know, less comital. And you can outplay people strategically. Absolutely. Yeah. That's all great news, man. Yeah, little bit of s you selfish part of the interview here. But I guess our our you know our audience is also enjoying this discussion so far. cool, cool. And because okay, then last couple of points I want to discuss as well, yeah. So So you also had experience with teaching kids, right? Together with adults across the years. I haven't worked with many kids so far actually. So I mean, because I also have so many questions from my subscribers as well, you know, they keep asking me about difference between kids and adults. How come kids are so so strong and powerful and they learn much faster, let's say. I mean, do you what kind of differences do you see generally when you're teaching them? Let's start from there, right? And I will be following it up with the question of what kind of teaching methods then we can use with different audience here.
speaker-1: Exactly. Well, you know, I know there's scientific evidence that because of neuroplasti plasticity, kids learn faster and then adults. In my experience, it's not the case. Like of course I have students who are early already and you can tell it it's not the same speed. Right? Like I I've I have my oldest student, I'm always proud to say that he's eighty something. He must be like eighty-four.
speaker-0: Nice.
speaker-1: He's still very active in his field. He's very sharp. Very smart. But still, like we struggle sometimes to, hey, can you share your screen on Zoom? And you know it's not it's not that something like that. now adults, let's say normal, like you know, in someone in his you know forties, fifties, sixties, I find that actually to be easier to teach adults because I mean you already have an expertise in a no different field. Like let's say you are whatever field you're in, you can relate it to chess. yeah, this concept I do it in music, I do it in I do
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: it in business. It's it's always like that. I have martial artists, all kind of students I've had who can make connections to chess.
speaker-0: Uh-huh.
speaker-1: so because of that it's easy. Number one, adults they don't have as much time. Kids, I always say my best students have been the ones who number one, the talent isn't there. There's nothing you can do about that. But also the ones who are always doing tactics. They have an iPad or a book or or whatever. And what were you doing this week? I have did this amount of tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics and playing games. That in itself and then kids also listen to you. like you tell them what to do and they get it done.
speaker-0: They do it.
speaker-1: Yeah. My typical adult student either is very busy, they don't have time, they just meet with me once a week and then they play some games. Even though I give them a training plan, they think
speaker-0: Don't do it.
speaker-1: Do you know some of them do, but not like kids. Like kids they get it done. It's like homework already. Or they have or they have their mom or their dad, Hey, did you do it? and then they they get it done. adults they have they're busy, but also adults they start doing their own thing. Like I I'm like, hey what did you do this? No yeah, you know, I didn't do that, but I saw Gotham Chess did a video on on this trap and I learned it
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: And then after three months I always give the same example. You have I've had the case of a dad and the kid, hey, I want you to teach my kid but also work wait make with me a different day and teach me. Fine. Three months. Do this, do this. In three months the kid did tactics, tactic, tactics, play games. The dad skipped a few lessons because he's busy and he has other things, but then in the meantime he was reading about Bobby Fisher's story. what amazing story. he's opening learning quick opening traps to defeat his kid that is popping out quickly. Uh-huh. And then after three months, there's no way you can compare the adult who's been learning about chess history or strategy
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: and all of this beautiful part of chess. compared to the kid that is only doing forks, pins, skewers, mace one, mace two and playing a lot, you just cannot keep up. And once that kid gets the lead, you're not gonna get Exactly.
speaker-0: This is so interesting because I also have similar experiences with adults. Like they have their own ways sometimes to do things. I sometimes give them homework. Okay, you're on the right level for my elevator course. You must do it. I got great feedback from people, people are improving. Please do it. He doesn't do it. He has other yeah like life kicks in, he's of they are of course abusive, they have other ideas. So and also they sometimes, you know, think again like they question their beliefs oftentimes. That's also what Andra Stoth says. You know, they might actually know the pattern, but they might you know doubt themselves for example. They might think that they know better. and so on then they can actually you know self-confidence wise as well I think kids can actually be even more confident to apply the patterns they they know actually so it comes
speaker-1: And and I think I also there's an element of motivation. like for example kids I I always ta I teach all of my students, even my eighty four year old student, I teach them as if they were going to compete in tournaments. Now when kids start to go to tournament that's a whole new world. And we know it. Like it's not the same when you play online to when you actually go to a tournament. That's that's a real deal. Yeah. And then compare that to an adult who just plays for fun when he has the time or she has the time. I it's not the same. It's not the same. I only have a few not a few but n it's not everyone, every adult that I work with who has that personality that is like, you know, you know what, I gotta get it done. Like I have this lady I work with, she lives in Singapore She has made amazing progress, but she's you can tell, she's this kind of person that like I think her daughter just left to the US for college and she's like, Okay, I have nothing to do now, I'm gonna put my time into chess. Right. She's done everything. I gave her a training plan before we even meet, she's like, Hey, I completed this, what can I do next? And then she's doing it. But
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: you can tell just like that in every aspect aspect of her life, right? So it doesn't ha it has nothing to do with her being an adult or a kid, just just putting it.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: And that applies to life in general. You put in the time over an extended period of time and you see results. So that's the way it is.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. It's I think adults are also better because you know, when it comes to learning we can maybe talk about three broad categories, maybe more, yeah. But the first thing is deep processing or the speed of processing, you know, that whether you learn the chunks or how quickly you actually learn new patterns and chunks, right? So there's that dimension of course. But there's also, you know, self regulation and self monitoring directions. How can you regulate your own you know, let's say your own mind or your own behaviors, can you self monitor yourself are you are you thinking about your own ways of learning for example right can you actually stop distractions when you're studying can you let the give the you know leave the phone phone in the other room you know all these things I think it also are good when it comes to that like self-regulation self-monitoring they can do it they can exert self-control but the amount of time that they put and that also determines yeah like because chess is mostly a game of pattern recognition you need those patterns in your long-term memories and also forgetting curve kicks in right you keep Forgetting as well, you have to like repeat some information on a regular basis, right? So much about the grind of long-term grind and staying motivated and keep on learning and having this long-term mindset. Okay, okay.
speaker-1: That's it.
speaker-0: So that's but how about that lady that she puts all the work by the way? Is she improving already? You can you see the results on her? Like just
speaker-1: She just had a complete beginner, like she was there at the 300, 400, so frustrated, I don't know why I keep making these mistakes and this and that. And he's already about to break a thousand. And this has been a matter of months. But again, she's putting the time. And you know at that level you gotta do is vision of the board, your tactics, but People don't. People a lot of people what they do is opening opening traps, opening traps. And then they wonder why they blown the repeats on move number twenty five. Yeah. but no, she's making nice progress. And I always tell her it's not about her rating. Hmm. Like right before she broke I think seven hundred, she was getting frustrated, like I can I'm playing my husband, he never takes just lessons and he's beating me or my daughter. And I'm like, just enjoy the process. I can see your games. You're losing some of these games I but I see the quality of the game is better. So when I update my notes, I don't care if you won or lose. I'm just saying that you're not leaving pieces hanging anymore, not as before. You're actually seeing simple tactics, you're developing your pieces, things like that. Last time we met on Wednesday yesterday, she's like, my husband cannot beat me anymore. Right? And then she's already about to break a thousand. But it takes time. Now that's her. Maybe someone else doing exactly the same thing she's doing, it takes an an an extra two, three months. Or maybe there's another person who does it two, three months earlier. We're all different, but one thing is for certain. You put in the time consistently and you're gonna get there.
speaker-0: Yeah. Because I must ask him because just like me, you also s let's say started chess seriously when you were a little bit older, right? Like almost like a teenager years basically. Like you were yeah, you were not such a early child when you actually started working on chess seriously. Because that also is important, right, as a teacher and a coach, to imagine what our typical adult learners are at and you know, because Marcus Carlson cannot explain anything to us because all the patterns are so automatized in his brain, right? But we can actually remember those times like like you did pro pro probably, right? Like how you improving gradually across the years, how your calculation was improving, the apply depth of calculation was improving and so on. You can remember consciously the amount of time you put and the results you got. Right.
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-0: That's a big strength I believe as as a coach, right?
speaker-1: Absolutely. And I remember like sometimes I'm working with my students and they're like, you're probably looking at me there bored and I'm like no no I'm actually looking at this remembering the first time I worked on this. Like I still remember the first time I learned about the Lucina Endgame. the first time I learned and I tell them for example the Lucina I bring it up a lot because first time I learned it, I remember that was in the chess academy, the coach was there with a big board. We were sitting down, he explains the Lucina. You guys understand? Yes, can someone come up here and demonstrate? Someone went up and demonstrated, you got it. I didn't get it. I was like, yeah, I get it, but I when I finished that session, I couldn't do it. I understood, yeah, there's a bridge and this and that. It wasn't until I got into one of my games, playing Blitz and the Chess Academy, and someone pointed out, hey, you messed this up, this little scene, and they demonstrated they are
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Right. So I remember that those processes. So when they're frustrated, I tell them, look, I went through the same thing. Relax. We're gonna bring force it again and come back to it. I know that on the fifth time it's gonna click. Yeah. And you can never assume. You have to always look at it from the learner's perspective. And that makes it much, much easier. And and keep them keep him encouraged and keep things as clear as possible. I always tell them, look We learned today I had a session at 7 a.m. first first time I worked with the person. He amazing tactics and everything. He didn't know how to do the checkmate with one work. Right? Okay. He's gone through life without that. Probably he's gotten it one or twice, maybe he blew it, but it's not a big deal. We learned it today. He got it. But I told him, look, don't even think for a moment if you're frustrated because at some point we're gonna be doing an exercise, maybe a tactic where you have to win a piece. When you do that, instead of going to the next exercise, I'm going to ask you to let's finish it at the TN, let's convert. And I'm gonna make him play the do the one rope checkmate.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: If he gets it perfectly, we don't have to touch it anymore. But if I see that he struggles, do it again. Do it again. And that's it. I just gotta keep track of it on my notes and make sure that we reinforce it.
speaker-0: Yeah. So a couple of insights there. I will go back to your notes and your teaching methods in in a short time because that's so beautiful also for me to to learn as coach. but you actually said something very important there that you really learned how Lucena worked only after you failed in your own game. So that became relevant for you, right? Because we discussed exactly same thing with Sorwai recently and also with Nick Vasquez, right? It's also called productive failure. Like you actually try And you'll actually learn from your mistakes. You have to make some mistakes, but those mistakes become very productive once you reflect on your mistakes and once you actually get the right lessons. Then it becomes relevant. And of course, human brains, right? We learn much more when things are relevant for us. Otherwise, we just quickly forget information, right? Just the more the more
speaker-1: The more they heard, the better.
speaker-0: they hurt the better. I was having a group lesson last week and one student told me this. He only learns like a war scar. He loses a game and sh he keeps those scars and only then he burns that information to his brain, right? It's so important to to not to discourage ourselves from our mistakes and losses. Yeah, that they're actually great great growth opportunities for us when it comes to that
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: connects to your coaching lessons because you mentioned you you're keeping track of some notes, right? You're basically looking at the students' games I guess, right? You gain information, you even track those mistakes across the years, right? Across the months basically. You're like an Excel sheet.
speaker-1: Exactly. No, basically what I do when I work with someone, I open a Google chit and I put their name, their username and everything. And every time we meet, I put a date, what we covered, and then any any things, any highlights. we need to reinforce this or we need to do that. And and then I just gotta make sure that then I find the right moment and the right exercises to to reinforce it. And that's it. And sometimes I have it it's also true. Sometimes I have a lesson prepared, like I have to meet with you next week, we have to talk about this and this. And then we meet, I talk to you at the beginning, I always ask them, what did you do this week? Some of them tell me, nothing, or I did this. And we might just not do what I have prepared. Maybe we just do something else because of the feedback that they give me. But I know we have to do it at some point. Maybe we'll do it the next time or or or And
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: again, it's just a matter of being consistent, reinforcing those ideas, and we just don't know when, but at some point we're gonna we're gonna make progress and get to that next level. It's just the way it is.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's so important Robert. I mean you mentioned because I also keep track of the mistakes and yeah, like at least keep a file to to also for me as a coach, right, to see what has changed across the years. I sometimes once we spot a problem, for example, right, I give them in my group lessons, I give them simultaneous exhibitions that let's say one guy cannot attack properly, he just fails, he doesn't take any risks. I force them to actually play attacking game against me and crush me, right? On the attacking side. And once you see the growth across the months, of course they fail initially, but maybe after After two months he is actually improving at that. So it's one of the sweetest feeling as a coach, you know, also from the student side.
speaker-1: And for themselves too, yeah.
speaker-0: For themselves too. Yeah. I think it's one of our core, let's say, you know, talents as a coach. Like to really, really identify those important recurrent issues and provide material, provide support and also make them more accountable across across the the years.
speaker-1: I'm o I think probably the most important thing is the support and really put it out there. Like Many times when I meet with someone and I tell them, Hey, how do you feel? How's just going? How is just treating you? They're like, Horrible. I've had a bad week, I've lost this amount of games. But then those things that I wanted to improve, they improved it. It's just that they just had a bad day yesterday and they lost five games, that's what they remember. They feel like they're not making progress. But when you zoom out and I tell them, Look, let's look at your stats in the last month. You went up eighty seven points. That's pretty good. I mean the last week was horrible.
speaker-0: That's amazing.
speaker-1: But if you zoom out and then if you look at the games, look remember how before move number twenty before you used to drop a piece every single time? It's not happening anymore. Now you're not losing because like this lady from Singapore, we were talking about that. The problems she had before was that she was hanging pieces or her opponents were hanging pieces that you didn't see it.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Now the problem she had, last time we met we talked about defense. It's that she's trying to checkmate her opponent. But she's not caring about her opponent trying to checkmate her. So she's about to checkmate the opponent, but she gets checkmated first. So she's not thinking about defense. And I tell her, Look, we've been working for this amount of months. I've been loading you with tactics to attack, to contribute to checkmate. We haven't talked about defense. There's no way you could be good at defending it. Now we start to reinforce that area. And that's it. And then the difficult part as a coach and as a sp player is that as you learn a new concept, let's say difference in this in this case, you have to keep working with everything else. It's not like you put everything on hold and use no, you have to keep doing everything together. Like
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: like like like music. You have to have everyone working together and in harmony. Yeah it's it it's
speaker-0: The the bucket as a hole, the bucket keeps leaking, so you have to like you have to keep mending it at the same time. Yeah, you cannot just leave them on its own course basically.
speaker-1: That's a margin rate.
speaker-0: Like another another issue for for educators also is that you know in the current day and age, there's so much material out there, right, Robert? Like there's so many candies that is next thing might you know, like people are getting confused basically about this. You know, vast amount of choices. as well. Then do you have some sort of, you know, let's say certain courses, certain structure, there are certain positions that you know by heart that you direct your students into without them getting overwhelmed, for example. Like
speaker-1: But I think what I found to be the most useful useful and depending on on the level that they're at, when we meet for the first lesson, I get an idea I do an assessment, I know where they are at, and then I give them a simple training plan. So here you have it's just a a Google like an Excel. Yeah. And then with these resources, there are like three or four resources after so many years that I have already allocated for my beginner students, for my intermediate, my by my for my advanced so I just I just them like two or three resources and then I just ask them to stick to that. And then depending on how they do, we change it. We remove this, we add that, depending on their feedback and their progress, and that's it. And I tell them anything you do out of this, I'm okay with whatever you want to do. Anything just related is good as long as you did this before. Also, I'm not asking them to spend 20 hours on what I'm giving them. I just tell them, look, if you give me 45 minutes a week or an hour. and you hit the tactics, let's say chess tempo. You're at a level that I'm recommending chess tempo to you. We do chess tempo for 45 minutes a week. For endgames, I always refer them to my YouTube playlist on endgames.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: Not to get the views, but because I always tell them, I've never read an entire endgame book. Whatever you have on that playlist is what I know, which is a basic keynote ponds, basic keynote. Other than that is my ability to calculate. And if it has worked for me, it's worked for you. So that's what they do. Those videos are like 10-15 minutes long. If you watch one a week, we're good. Then there's another playlist about strategy, which is all the videos that I've put out on strategy. That's it. You have strategy, endgame, tactics, depending on where you are, I give you a resource. And then play your games. If you stick consistently, that's it. And that's how we avoid all the noise. I had a an interview, I don't know if you know Avitic from Chess Movie.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: He told me something that is very, very true. He said, I'd rather have someone spend a month, two months, three months just doing research on finding the right resources.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Yeah, you find this resource or this person who's gonna teach me openings. This guy's gonna teach me strategies and once you have that in place, start working on it consistently. Yeah. And that's true. Sometimes we just yeah like you said, so much information for free and you go from this to that and you're just not making progress.
speaker-0: Yeah. I think at this day and age of bombardment of information out there, you know, that becomes a crucial part. Again this connects with self-regulation, self-nurturing, like you know, being conscious about what kind of study methods we are employing as as learners. You know, that becomes a crucial part. To be aware of the vast amount of resources. But you know, what is the most relevant for my current level right now? Yeah, for the best outcomes.
speaker-1: We gotta bring back the old school tissues. Like I would say when I first went to the Chess Academy, it was not like, hey, you have no, it was like look, this this book is in Russian, even though we speak Spanish, it's in Russian, that's all we got. Go home, read it. That's it. That's all that's all you had. Forget about getting into the onto the internet or you finally finish that book, bring it back. Here's the next one. Bring it back. The next one.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, you cannot ask and many of those books were Again, Russian, they were old, they were broke and you couldn't break it anymore, you get in trouble. So do that, play your game such as Academy, come back, repeat. That's it.
speaker-0: That's it. You also preach them to play mini games, mostly rapid or classical games during the week, or you preach bliss as well?
speaker-1: Well I I always say like in life you have to keep a balance. Right. So I think I like him to have a balance between rapid and mix. I always tell him to have the increment. So t for me ideally you'd be playing a combination of five fives and fifteen tens.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Depending on the person I have people who love to play rapid and they hate Blitz. So to that person I tell them, Give me at least a day of the week where you play Blitz. You gotta have 'cause even if you play a two hour game, you could get into time pressure. And if you've never played Blitz, you're gonna be playing a beautiful game and then you play like a baby, with three minutes left, freaking out. Yeah. And then Especially the younger kids, they love to play Blitz and then I tell them, Look, give me at least a day of the week where you play a rapid game and we keep that balance, right? But yeah, I'm I'm okay with that. Ultimately, depending on the level that you are at, just play. If you just play I'm happy with that. But but yeah, we have to have that balance.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's also crucial because some adults, you know, they like to study more. They like to have this let's say academic approach to things. That's all why I said. You know, they tend to read a lot about, you know, let's say historical facts, but they sometimes forget, you know, how important it is to also play and test yourself in their environment.
speaker-1: You have to have to do it. And also some people, especially adults, not everyone, but I have some students that they don't play because they don't like to lose.
speaker-0: Right. And that's drinking.
speaker-1: Very true.
speaker-0: Yeah, again, it's again you know intent of the teacher, the psychological side of things, they they have to convince themselves. Also scientifically it's backed up, right? Productive failure. Mistakes are welcome, they're opportunities for growth. Otherwise progress is tall basically.
speaker-1: It's not easy and you you were asking before about kids versus adults. That's another thing that I've noticed about adults. Adults like I I've worked with a lot of people who are really good at what they do, whatever their field is. And then it's tough with them. Like imagine you are the CEO of a company or you are this great right and then all of a sudden you're playing chess and you're getting you're getting beat by these little kids too much.
speaker-0: Right. Right. You feel really stupid, right deep inside.
speaker-1: I yeah, I and you know of course, ninety percent of people they like I mean it's just again it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect me. But some people do, they're so competitive that they don't like that and it could be an obstacle. Yeah.
speaker-0: I think it's because a couple of reasons, because it's sometimes so one and zero the game, right? You either lose or you win. But there's also the whole connotation of chess, you know, measures intelligence, smartness, you know, like this connotations about life and from society, right? You feel like you're inferior, like mentally, cognitively somehow to the guy who just beat you. It has nothing to do with that, of course, it's mostly about patterns and chunks and years of experience.
speaker-1: That's that's true.
speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Yeah. So it's ki requires, you know, this Buddhistic mentality, you know, about about things in general. Like this, you know, like yeah, the ego side I think is also difficult also when it comes to this. That might always also explain why some adults are risk averse. Also in life, as you grow you know older, you generally become more risk averse, then also you don't take many risks and then you shy away from new tournaments and new games and it's hard.
speaker-1: It's another choice.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean you must also feel like a psychiatrist sometimes, right? As as a chess coach basically, like
speaker-1: Yeah, like I know a guy I know a guy who's who's trying to stay away from creating a chess of the course and you know, he's just
speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. You became my psychiatrist today. Robert, it's been an amazing conversation. I mean, like, okay, let's wrap it up because it's already like around one hour mark. I mean, I enjoy it thoroughly and I will probably invite you again because this podcast is just starting. I am just like like a new improver. I'm an improver interviewer. I will get better over time. I'm you know having a growth mindset, learning from mistakes. But it I really enjoyed our discussion, Robert. I mean
speaker-1: Likewise.
speaker-0: Thank you so much. Final thoughts. Let's talk about the future. I mean, are you working on a new chessable course? Is it coming?
speaker-1: I'm wr I'm working on one about strategy. And yeah, still working on the on the material but it should be coming
speaker-0: Well, I mean I I'm the strategy guy, so I I published six courses on strategy so we can have a n another session if you have some mental blocks like I do.
speaker-1: I can't talk about the
speaker-0: That's cool. Okay. How about your YouTube channel? Because I there is no new videos for the last couple of months. I mean, is it active?
speaker-1: Yeah. No it is I think I did a live stream last week. Cool but I was out for well we moved and then we had a hurricane.
speaker-0: Of course the hurricane, forget about that, yes.
speaker-1: And I said, Well let me take a couple of weeks off but then it those weeks turned into months. I don't know how what happened there. It's just time flies when you have kids and you're busy. But no no no, definitely going back. Exactly.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's an amazing thing, you know, like as as an educator, as a YouTuber, I'm just experiencing myself recently as I'm reaching almost fifteen thousand subscribers, you know, almost on a s daily level, you get amazing feedback from people, you know? Like you must have also experienced the same thing. It's like another b best feelings as
speaker-1: I still I still get it. Like I don't respond much because I'm busy, but I get on my phone an email with the comments. Yeah. And it's amazing. And not only people say, thanks for explaining this or for covering this, or people really appreciate the fact that it's in order and restructured. But I get a lot of comments, I went to my first tournament, I used this and this they taught me and I won a tournament, or I did this, or I taught it to a friend. Or I get a lot of people who are I s I begin today, lesson number one and I put the date. October seventeenth. There you go. And then you see on another video, video number twenty, okay, this date. And you see that they're keeping it they're doing it.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Exactly. And I've met people who actually have told me, Hey, you know what? I've been at this one in my life and I said I picked up chess just to get distracted and thanks to your videos I got into it and it's been great. So absolutely very very
speaker-0: So Don't stop because it's so motivating, so beautiful also for the community. You bring value to it. So I'd love to see more of your videos, man. Also your courses. Again, guys, check Robert Ramirez. I mean, you know him, of course, you know his YouTube channel. He has two amazing chessable courses on the King's Indian perts and also Reverse Stonewall. He's now working on a strategy course. We'll be hoping that we publish soon. And you will also check that out. And please let us know how you like this video, comments, likes, subscribe, all these things you know. Okay, guys. And thank you so much again, Robert, for coming here. And
speaker-1: Thank you for
speaker-0: I will catch you very soon. Thank you so much, man. Have a great time. Bye bye.
speaker-1: Thank you for having me here and yeah yeah glad to be part of this.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's early morning in Florida and you already told me you already gave a lesson at seven in the morning, so your chest brain is still working and fully operating at twelve past eight.
speaker-1: left whatever is left of my brain is operating, yeah.
speaker-0: That's that's good, man. That's good to know. Because I'll be asking you so many nice chess questions today, you know, about also cognitive science, psychology. But also I'll be selfish today. I also ask you to convince me to create a chessable opening course finally, because you're an expert when it comes to that. So I will be just bombarding you with some interesting questions. Of course, Robert doesn't require any introduction, guys. My YouTube followers, right? He's one of the most you know well known YouTubers. But I think what also separates Robert is His educational approach and his organic growth that he did across the years, ever since the COVID times, that he created this YouTube channel, and from the very beginning, he was very educational and he actually created so much free content for from beginners all the way to masters, I would say. And he had this amazing organic growth over the years, and that led to his amazingly successful chesable courses, right? So he's a guy I actually admire also. He's a let's say a new YouTuber. I'm only here for like a year. So Robert is the guy that's sort of my model, and it's a pleasure to talk to you about this as well, Robert.
speaker-1: to hear Mr.
speaker-0: Yes. by the way, Robert has been to a perpetual chess podcast, folks. I will just post a link here. So this was like maybe five months ago. You can hear all of his background, his his upbringing in Cuba, and how he came to the States. He lives in Florida right now, and all of his personal stories also you can find in that Ben Johnson episode. So I won't repeat it just to avoid redundancy. I'll be asking you different questions today, hopefully, Robert. Right? Yes.
speaker-1: You got it. You got it.
speaker-0: So you know, Robert, like to me, one I have a writer block when it comes to creating opening courses on Chesable. You know, like because I always ask myself, I th it's also perfectionism, I think, because if I create an opening course, to me, openings always connect to middle games, middle games connect to end games. So it becomes a huge task suddenly in my brain. If I ever create an opening course, like how am I gonna sp stop? How can I create a course that is on let's say only a hundred lines? You know, which sounds impossible. I tried it last year. I sit down and create a neither of course, neither of us, by the way, a very bad choice probably.
speaker-1: Work for a big monster anyway.
speaker-0: And only after like four months I realized, my god, this is too complex, you know, I have to stop. So I stopped. Now I'm still thinking, maybe I will create one about slow. Has to be practical, also beginner-friendly, you know. I'm thinking about system openings and you actually created two courses on Chesterball about system openings, one in King's Indian and Perth Peertz, sorry, Pierce of course, and the other one is about the reverse stonewall, right? Stonewall attack. So what is your take then when it comes to the opening approach of the advantages of such system openings over let's say more mainline openings? What do you say? Well
speaker-1: to me I I always say the same thing and to me playing system has been the only way because as many of you already know I started late and when I started a lot of my my opponents they already had a very good repertoire. Like I remember the top kids at the Chess Academy they already were playing these complicated lines of the Dragon Sicilian and to me it was like I remember seeing some sacrifices on C3 like to the rook on C eight and then sacrifice and to me it was like okay if I have to invest time to learn all of this theory which is very easy to forget then how am I gonna learn What truly matters, which is the middle game and the end game. So
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: part because of that, but also part because I'm by nature I'm very lazy. I'm like, no, no, no. I need something that is easy to learn, easy to implement, and that gives me an edge. So that's why I started with the Pierce defense and the Kings Indian defense. Now I think for any player systems are very very useful because you cut off a lot of preparation, a lot of memorization, which sadly, even if I just load your brain right now with all the theory, if you don't play it in a week you're gonna forget it. So that's one of the benefits from my point of view. And and at the end of the day we all know you could play perfectly for ten, fifteen, twenty moves. If your middle game is weak, if your end game is weak, then it all goes away. Openings is ten percent of the game. So that's why for me, just keep it. Simple with the opening and learn something that as a system that all you need to know is where do where the pieces go, the typical plans after that, and then just play chess. That's it. I personally I've played at the master level, and I can tell you that even if I get a position where I know I have an advantage, like I review with the computer after, and the computer says, Hey, you had plus five, plus six, plus seven, I know I cannot convert easily. It's not like, if you play the perfect opening and you get a plus seven advantage, you're gonna convert. It's not the case. So many things go. Wrong. So that's why I prefer that if you tell me, you know what, I have all the time in the world, I enjoy the night or for example, go for it. Because at the end of the day, you're going to learn a lot of chess too by learning openings. People think, if you learn an opening, you're only learning that's that opening and that's it. No, you learn a lot of chess. There are lines that that have a lot of tactics and positional ideas behind them. So if you understand the why behind the moves, you're learning a lot of. chess. Plus, as you know, learning an opening also requires re reviewing master games. So that process is gonna improve your chess by a lot. And it's fun man, I I cannot tell you it's not fun, we all love openings. The problem becomes when you prioritize it over tactics and middle game strategy and and end game. But yeah, bottom line I think that's what it does. The system gives you it's easy, time you save a of time and then you can use it for middle game and any
speaker-0: Yeah. That that's actually the str strongest part I think of system openings. I will now talk about more about cognitive science and chunking and so on because that actually connects to that part as well. Right. When it comes to let's say chase expertise, it's mostly about those recurrent patterns and chunks and familiaring ourselves with those common structures that we know. So just to prevent overwhelm in that sense. And I think you would also agree, right? That's one of the strengths of system openings, that you you generally tend to look at similar structures that cut down on this mess of strange things that you tend to see. You count down on these things and especially for adults, right? Would you then say it's actually even better for adult players those system openings compared to beginners.
speaker-1: I honestly don't like to separate players between adults and or learners and kids because to me it's more about free time and not free time. The problem with adults is that we don't have free time. Like look at myself. Like when I when I first got into chess, I was twelve, thirteen, right? What did I have to do? Just go to school, come back, go play soccer, get into fights with my friends. That was my life, right? So breaking chess into it, pfft I could put I I used to put a lot of time into it. I I did it for three years, but I put a lot of time in in those years because I had the time. Now I have two kids, I have my wife, I have my life. So I'm lucky if I can put an hour aside to do chess. So if you're an adult, you have a busy life. I'm sorry, my friend, you cannot spend two hours a day of doing reviewing your openings. You just can't. Yeah. And especially if you play in tournaments. Like I had a question the other day, someone sent me an email. Hey, I went over your chessable course about the Pierce Defense and the Kings Indian defense, and I don't like that you didn't include this line and this line and design because I have it on the YouTube channel. Right? And
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: the answer was very simple. Look, when I did the content on the YouTube channel, I used to play this line and this line and this line. But I realized every time I had a tournament, I started reviewing my lines, I have to spend two hours to review these lines because they're so complex. So those two hours I could be using them to train my tactics or just rest or review some games. But I do spend it to review those specific lines. I go to the tournament, I play three games as black. Nobody plays those tricky lines. Right. I just wasted those two hours. And then the next tournament that I play in a month or two or three, I forgot it already, so I have to review it again. So that's why I said instead of playing this line that is so complex, let me pick this one that is simpler. I'm not gonna forget it. I don't I don't need to dedicate two hours for it. And that's it.
speaker-0: Right, right, right. Because there's also one more question, right? Let's say playing the devil's advocate here, right? So if you look at other guys like Andra Stolt for example, right? Like he hates London, he thinks it's just limiting one's chess understanding. Because that's one of the key, let's say, you know, counter arguments against this. Do you think right? Do you do you think systems also is this drawback of limiting one's chess, especially for those foundational years, at the early years of one's chess life, if you only play system opening, do you think there are such disadvantages? As well. Also, comp con for example, think about the Stonewall bishop on C one, right? He would probably say under a thought, hey, you know, the the guys are learning bad habits to play with a terrible bishop on c one and things like this, right? Do you have something as that?
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. So I agree with him. So the downside to playing a system is that you become really good at it, but then you don't get exposure to a lot of other things. Meaning that if they get you out of that system, you're gonna be uncomfortable, right? You're not gonna be probably as as effective. But
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: the way that I deal with it and that I dealt with it when I was learning is Part of your chess training in general, if you play systems or if you play clo more classical openings regardless, you should have as part of your training a proportion where you review master games. You got you gotta have a day where you say today I'm gonna review Master Games. And in that part of your training, you're gonna review games from openings that are now your opening. So that's why you you know what, I play the Stonewall and the Pierce Defense. That's my world, that's what I really like. But when I review Master Games, I reviewed this game that Kasparov played the Sicilian, the Nightorf. guy played the the scotch game and even though I don't play that I'm getting exposure to it. So all of those patterns that I'm missing because I don't play those classical openings. I'm getting exposure to it. And and in the Pierce defense for example multiple times for the Kingston defense I get into positions that are from all the openings. Often I go from the Pierce to Sicilian defense opening positions. And I'm like I'm not uncomfortable because I have reviewed games. I don't know it a hundred percent. I'm not an an expert, but I understand what the plan is. Same thing. You could go from the Sicilian I mean from the King's Indian to the Benoni for
speaker-0: Let's say bin on it, yes.
speaker-1: Exactly. And now if you don't review any other games, you're gonna be lost. But for me and my students, whenever we're gonna talk about it, like if we're gonna have a lesson on attacking up opposite sides. I'm gonna try to give them games where they use different openings and that way they get the exposure to it. And I think that's how you solve it. That's how has worked for me. Because if you read any books, when I first learned my coach always told me, you should start with openings like E4, E5 openings, right? Open games, because you get exposure to the tactics. And as I started to work as a coach and work with different people I got the impression that this is something that has been passed down from generation to generation. And we keep doing it because people keep saying it's good. Right. But I honestly don't know. I don't have evidence, so I don't wanna say anything against it. But I don't know how true it is. I think I think you're gonna be just fine as long as you get exposure to to everything. And bottom line, just don't give openings to motion porners unless you play at the top top level that you really need to.
speaker-0: Uh-huh. So despite the fact that your opening courses are I mean your two courses are on openings on Chaseable, you still claim that we should not spend so much time in those openings, but also
speaker-1: But if you look at the at the Chesable courses that I have out there or the opening material that I have on YouTube, you could do those courses in a few hours. Like if you look at Peterson and Kingstadium Defense, you could do it in three, four, five hours, you get the ideas, that's it, you don't have to look at it again. And the same thing for the stone stonewall, even less. Probably three, four hours of your time you got it on the control. And if you look at the reviews of those courses on Chesable, that's why you hear, hey, very easy to learn, I'm already using it, I'm loving it. That's it. Now I also have students who tell me, man, I get it, I know what you're saying, but I love to study opening. I just like it. Fine, go ahead and do it. As long as you do what you have to do and then like I have a student of mine, Sam. He's very organized. He has binders with his openings and everything and so many books. But I don't mind it because he puts the time to do his middle game and his end game. He did what he had to do and then at the end he has more free time 'cause he's always traveling and he just reviews all the openings. Fine, you're doing what you what you wanna do. The problem is when you are only reviewing openings and opening traps and you're you're not doing your tactics, you're not doing your end game and so
speaker-0: Right. You know, it's funny because I was talking to Fernand Gobay. Do you Fernand Gobet? He's this international master, the god of good the god of chess research. He's a he's a professor in London. I mean he's he published so many articles and even books about chess and the psychology of chess, cognitive science behind chess. Right? He's he's really number one guy to go to when it comes to all the scientific evidence and so he's a international master himself, by the way. He played against Kasparov, like in Anant, like he's you can check his games on chess chess games.com. I mean he's an extremely strong player too. So we were you know considering to maybe apply for a project together like a couple of years ago and of course I also asked him this question you know like what is your take on openings like given scientific perspective and so on He even wrote an article about chess improvement. I will actually post a link here on this video. So his point was also the same. He was talking about those system openings. He he's he was saying that if he was starting N right now, he was he was not going to go for Nydorf, but let's say something more boring like London, that the chunks are established in your brain, those typical middle game ideas, and even he says. You should go to the end game, let's say, you should keep the pawn structure because pawn structures are usually the most stable, right? So you basically remove all the pieces, keep the pawn structure, and gradually add pieces. Let's say add one bishop for both sides and play that endgame. Let's say add knights for both sides, play the end game and gradually bring more pieces, add more pieces to the same pawn structure. He even calls this decomposition method. So he decomp decomposes. the position and gradually add pieces. This way also connects it to the end game of course, right? It's all about these recurrent chunks and connections that you make from your opening to the middle game and to the end game actually. Yeah. I was impressed, yeah.
speaker-1: But there's only one problem that I have with that method. It is too boring for people to do it. People won't do it. Even though they will do it. People are gonna be like, nah, I want someone to tell me what the the trial that I could do here. That's
speaker-0: Right. Going for trips.
speaker-1: like when when I did this latest course on the Stonewall, I added a a a section that I thought was pretty cool, which is I said, Okay, we talked about this line. Now this is a an end game that you could get, a typical end game. So basically I just removed all the pieces, left the pawn structure that you get out of the opening, and then based on the pond structure this is what you should aim for in the opening. I'm like, this is all cool. I'm like why didn't I think of this earlier? Nobody cares.
speaker-0: Nobody cares.
speaker-1: Cares about that because again people want something quick. How can I win ten, fifteen, ten moves? it's it's just the way it is. Now I I'm lucky that I have some students who really enjoy the end game. Like I just tell them, hey look, I know this is boring, but we have to and they're like, no, no, no, I really love it. I and I could be there for hours. That's great. But most people, especially the with the younger kids, they hate it. They just wanna play bullet and memorize openings. And it's it's just the way it is. But yeah, what you just said makes perfect sense. And how many times have we read that you should learn chess backwards? Learn the end game.
speaker-0: Reverse engineering. Cabablanca. Yes.
speaker-1: Exactly, right? But it's easier said than done. Unless you have someone to push you and remind you, you're just not gonna wanna do it. You wanna do something more fun like.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: also Rush doing the things like that. It's
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: just the way it is.
speaker-0: No, human psychology, right? I think that's also one reason why opening courses are so popular. Like if you go to YouTube, like all these traps are so popular, you know, it's like human psychology, going for short term candies rather than you know long term growth. Right, exactly. We don't we don't see that benefit directly. It's a long term approach, basically. But science supports it, right? Guys, like yeah, if you're hardcore chess improvers, science really supports this, that you have to make connections, of course. But I understand people have a hard time doing that. Maybe coaches can help you with that, setting up some positions and game. positions from your opponent structures, maybe there will be some bot in the future, like human-like bots that you can try and play against those bots from those structures to improve those chunkings basically, those chunks
speaker-1: But absolutely goes down to I I remember I read some at some point something like how humans we don't think of the future self as ourself, right? Like if you think yourself in five years, it's like a completely different person. Like if you have to make a sacrifice now to help yourself in five years, it's difficult because it's like it's a different guy. I'm not doing it for myself, it's over a different guy.
speaker-0: Exactly.
speaker-1: If you really keep that in perspective, then you'd be more willing to put in the work right now. And not only in chess, in personal life. Like maybe you have to s not go out so much and save some money now so that in the future you could do something. It's difficult to give up that now so that you could do something in five, ten years. Yeah. And we see it in we see it in chess.
speaker-0: Yeah. My last two guests mentioned exactly the same point. Like Nick Vasquez was here last time and he says he told himself, you know, he I I I will not improve in one year. Like I'm accepting that no improvement might take place in one year, but after one maybe two years I will see the the real effect of it. So he already starts with that mentality. Also Solwai said the same thing, Solwai Freebag, she says it's like checking the stock market every day, right? Like let's say you have some money, if you keep on checking every single day you you get miserable. So you have to like forget about that, right? You have to trust it and you have to like go for the future. Growth in that sense. Exactly. Very similar approach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, because then we discussed, you know, let's say potential disadvantages of system openings. And so far, of course, you mentioned a couple of things as well. You mentioned maybe not seeing double positions, but you try to solve it by looking at master games, for example. But there's also this element of predictability right you become a target in the tournaments because people know exactly what you're gonna play, right? You're this King's Indian guy, you this Perth guy. So it was it a problem for you personally in your tournament games?
speaker-1: Never man, that's all I have ever played. And what I my argument is the following. If you prepare an opening, whatever opening it is, I mean you prepare it to the point that you really like it. Like you're ready for anything. So there's no way just because someone knows where you play, they're gonna get you in trouble. If you really know your opening, you will be fine regardless, right? So If not what's the point? Now I also agree when I first started, you didn't have this element of people preparing beforehand. Like now you put my name on on on the internet and my name comes up, you could see my past games, you can see what I play, you could prepare specific lines. That could be very annoying. Now the way you solve that is by having a second opening. Or maybe a different line within your opening. Like for example, the Pierce defense or the King's Indian defense, they're so flexible That you could play against the same person, the same system in different ways. Right. You could play more aggressive in the center or more on the queen side. You could play with c6. Like in the course, I give like three, four different plans. You could use him however you like. And often that's what I do. I play the same guy. Okay, this time let me play this other line. And you do that. Or you could have a second opening just to surprise your opponents. Like I play, I've always played Pierce defense and King's defense. But I have the Groomfield defense too. I've never played the Grunfeld as my main opening because it's so complex. So
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: much theory, right? But guess what? I have it there just in case I need to surprise someone. And I've used it only like two, three times in tournaments, and I've won every single time. Because people expect me to play King City. Yeah, and boom. And after the game I ask, I had one against Natural Master Theodore Slade. and at after the game I told him, Hey, did you prepare against my King City defense? And he was like, Yeah, yeah, I prepared it now. And then when When he saw D5, I got him. But you know, at the end of the day, the Grunfeld not only is also a system, but it's very similar to my King's Indian defense and my Pierce Defense. It has the Fianchero element.
speaker-0: Hypermodern approach, yes.
speaker-1: Exactly. So to me it's more not only that, I also I one of the latest tournaments I've played, I played the Hippo setup, the hippo opening. A lot of people hate the hippo. But guess what? I took my opponent by surprise, he was not expecting it. So I won that game very nicely, very nice game actually, but at the end of the day I'm not going too far from home. I'm playing this hypermodern approach as well. And and that's it. Now that Hippo game I did not even prepare it. I know what the Hippo is about, but I have a lot of experience with this hypermodern approach. And I made it work. So I I don't think there's a problem and also regardless of the opening, if you play the Night Orf, people are gonna prepare against you anyways. Like if you play ten games with the Night Dorf And that's the problem because in my case, if they surprise me with the system, it's easy for me to say, wait, wait, wait. These are my plans typically, what what do I want to do? I know the typical things. You cannot go too far from it. If you prepare something very specific in the night dwarf and you don't know it You're
speaker-0: I know, I know.
speaker-1: gonna at the very least you're gonna spend a lot of time trying to
speaker-0: You know man. So many people, so many p because I'm a Nidorf player myself, right? because I I Kaspero was my noble player, Fisher. So that was my first ever opening as a teenager, right? You can imagine. And I got crashed so many times by those bishop g five players, you know, like sacrifice
speaker-1: And is it the thing and that's very important, like when you play systems, a lot like the London system for example, you're not really making contact from the from the beginning. You're not really attacking right away, right? So I read once and that was very useful for me, that when you play in system or slow openings, every tempo doesn't really matter. Like you could waste a move and you'll be fine, because there it's not a chart position. So that's the benefit of systems against someone who prepared against you.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: They get you off guard, fine, but it there's not it's not a sharp position. Now if you play a King's Gambit, a Night Orf, and you mix the move order, I mean you confuse the move order or you skip a move, you're done. You're done. I'm sorry, but you're done. So that's another good benefit to of playing.
speaker-0: Absolutely. There's less contact, less committal, let's say a single decision isn't so crucial as in Nidorf even Grunfeld I would Grunfeld is also quite sharp, right? So so these are some of the advantages that you can at least protect yourself, right? Even though you're targeted, you can protect yourself with different plans.
speaker-1: Always be new elements.
speaker-0: Is that what you do on your courses? You give them a couple of middle game plans, typical plans, right?
speaker-1: That's it, that's we do. We I I call it the toolbox. You have a tool you get to the setup, you where the pieces go for the Pierce defense, so the King's Indian defense. And then you have a toolbox with three, four plans. And you just gotta pick one of those. That's it. If you understand what these three, four plans are about, you get the middle game figured out. And then as you play it more and more it becomes it becomes easier for you. That's it. Like often when I'm pla I'm doing live streams or something like that People tell me I'm like, okay, I got to the middle game and I'm I'm like, let me think, what should I do here? And then they ask me, Didn't you just have a course on that? Don't you ha haven't you've been playing this for twenty years, how can you have to think about what to do next? And I tell them, it's not that I don't know what to do. It's just that I now have these three plans, these three options from this move number ten. I just want to see which one is more appropriate in this moment. I just don't know it every single time, but I know these are my plans, then my job is to pick the right one. If I pick the wrong plan Like if they cancel opposite side, I know I have to play C6, B5, expand on the clean side. If I choose the wrong plan, I can get in trouble. So I know my plans, but I still have to think which one do I use, right? That's
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: what we do. And one more thing about that subject, I always talk about this kid. There's a kid in a local club that I go in Miami. He started and in like a year, he went all the way to 1800 over the board. I mean, no doubt he has to be very talented, very smart. But this kid only played London system as white. Uhhuh. And he played like an old Indian setup, like a Philly door as black. So D six, nine of six, and then E five. And then he puts the nine on D seven, the pun on C six, Queen C seven, very quiet. Man, everyone knows who the guy played. He's not gonna change it. He's just playing the same thing. No one can beat the guy. But guess what? He's playing when I talk to other people, like what is he doing? Like of course he has like two hundred coaches, like he's putting like twenty hours a day. But he's not only doing his tactics and everything else, but the guy plays like I think twenty games a day. Now playing the same openings. Imagine if you play twenty games a day, times three. That's like six hundred games a month. Playing the same old things. You review every single game afterwards, on your own, with your computer, with your coaches. I mean after six months I think you're really good at that. And then you could bring whatever you want. How do you break down the fiddle defense? How do you break down the old Indian? Maybe The guy can claim that he has an advantage of the opening but he doesn't care. But move number forty when you're tired of trying to punish him, he's going to outplay you and that's what he's done.
speaker-0: Right. It becomes a second nature because of this recurrent patterns and chunks in the middle game that he keeps ex exposing himself, typical end games he plays. In a system that is not as crazy sharp as Nidorf, right? Let's commit fool. Still objectively it's not terrible either. You can hold yourself. So I think it sound sounds like a very smart choice actually. I'm just thinking about you know the potential drawbacks to it, playing the devil's advocate, you know, like playing those London structures and Philodrus structures, can it be some some some drawbacks? I mean you still s you know keep on fighting for the center. It's not like a crazy hypermodern approach anyways, yeah you you like competitive surrender the center. So there's still, you know, some some nice chunks that you keep to other positions, let's say.
speaker-1: there's a line there I see him play. Like there's there there's another there there are these kids also in the in that club. They're like three kids, they all play chess and the dad also plays chess. So they have like a little team at home and they train together and it it's crazy. And they're young, so they have the time and the energy. They always try to defeat this other kid. And then they come up with this super complicated line. So there's a line in the affiliator where you play F4. And you
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: have E4, D4, and then F four as well. And guess what? This other kid, that's all he does. So he knows that tricky line. He knows it better than one guy who played it once because it
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Right. So after the his after the games you can hear you can hear him say, yeah, yeah, I've I've played this a million times. I was happy when you played it for. And to me that's that has been the story of my life. Just become really good at one thing. And that's it. Just make it your your baby.
speaker-0: That reminds me of the story that you mentioned to Ben Johnson, yeah, because I think if if I remember correctly, you played F four in one game and then after spending twenty-five minutes your opponent played E five, right? That that sacrifice. Yeah, but of course there's a higher chance that you know that sacrifice better than him as an F4 player, right? And then he was almost losing on time and he you beat him very easily, yeah.
speaker-1: Exactly and this is the same guy, very strong player by the way. I think before that game he had beat me every single time. very strong guy. I always struggled with him, always long games. This game it was very quick and I was very comfortable because I really knew it. He did not. He did not. And it was funny because in that game, last game of the tournament, that's actually the last tournament I played, I was in January. he he we needed to win to get to the first places. I played it for He sits down for ten minutes and as he's thinking, I'm thinking, okay, number one, he's he's surprised, he doesn't know how to play of against F4. And that's the thing. A little lot of people say, F4 virtual playing, it cannot be good. But nobody plays against it. And they don't have a system against it. But he's there as he's thinking, I'm I'm thinking Either he's really chart or he's trying to decide if he goes for the crazy E five line because he needs to win this game or not. When I saw E five in, I'm thinking, okay, if you have to spend ten minutes to make that move, you don't have a prepared.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: So now you're coming into my territory and it's not like I'm better than you are or a tactician like Tao, but I know it. I've played already at least a hundred games with it, I have made mistakes, I have repeated again with the engine. So I'm gonna be in my elements and exactly like the first ten, twelve, fifteen moves, I had not spent any time, he was down already like forty, forty five minutes in the first ten fifteen moves. And that's also important, you save time where you know your openings really well.
speaker-0: Right, right. I mean by the way, your chaseable course is it one F four or is it one D four?
speaker-1: No no it's D four. D four and then we get into the stonewall. A lot of people wanted me to do F four because they seen me play it on online and so on. The thing is with F four, they actually asked me if I wanted to do it on the bird, but the thing with the birds are putting two things. On the one It's way way bigger than the stonewall. Because they could do, for example, if they play E5, the From Scambit, that in itself has more theory and more preparation than all of the Stonewall. Right? So it'll be too much. not easy to to prepare and to digest. But also that's the opening that I've been playing as my main opening as well. So I don't want to put it out there for everyone to see. Because then you have that. People prepare very well. And and honestly, as much as I don't really care about off beat openings I played them, I think people should benefit from other openings like playing D four first and D four what I liked about that course is that it's not only the stonewall. Like if they play, for example, the the Dodge, D four, F five, I recommended to play the Stunton Gambit where you play E five. So
speaker-0: E four.
speaker-1: even though I'm trying to teach you a system, I'm also giving you exposure to other possessions and other other patterns. Like if you play the stone to gambit, that's a different monster. And anyone who tells you to play the the stonewall attack against the Dutch, they just tell you, play something within that system, right? Maybe call it collie, things like that. But I really enjoyed the fact that we can have E4. Complete different so we're a player that could do a system but you could also do a gambit. And
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: it gave me that flexibility as well.
speaker-0: Uh-huh, I see. Yeah, so a couple of ideas behind why you chose D four instead of F four. It makes perfect sense. Because then what would you recommend me? Because I have like ten chaseable courses, no opening courses. I think you already exhausted all the system openings, you know, Banzia took London, you took all what are the next steps then, you know, if you create a smart system opening repertoire. No
speaker-1: You I don't think it's only about doing a system, I think it's just making it in a way that you don't go too far in in the theory, right? remember most of the at least the opening s the courses that I did, every single line is up to move number ten, no more than that. As long as you can articulate the middle game plans, clearly you you'll be fine. Like that's the main problem. People and you know it, beginners, intermediates, what they want is to be handheld all day.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: They hate when you say open theory is over, good luck. If you're
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: able to say, Okay, this is move number ten, but from here you should try to attack on the queen side or you should try to attack on the king's side or these are the main plans, then that that's a different story. You could play I mean you could pick anything like I remember when I first started as black I used to play Pierce Defense, King's Indian Defense, but as white I used to play E4. And then I had a very simple repertoire with E4. Against E five, I'll play this the Fortnites with this catch game. So night of three, night c six, nice three, nine of six and then D four. That in itself is very simple. You don't have to go into a lot of theory as long as you explain the main ideas. Against Sicilian I had the Alapin. Now the Alapin you could make it a huge course on it, or you can make it very simple if you pick the right lines. Also, I I also recommend a lot the Vienna with I don't think we have any course in Chesable about the Vienna with
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: the G3 line. I think there are some on the F4, which gets sharp.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: I've played G3, I have a few students who played the G3 line against everything, and they do just fine. And again, it's it's just a system.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: I just think from what you're telling me you maybe wanted to be you were too ambitious and you wanted to do an eight or the
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: lines, you wanted to cover everything. Yes. And even if you accomplish that, people won't want it. People want something simpler. Absolutely.
speaker-0: Right. That that that was you know Sankos fallacy I realized after four months, man, I'm willing all this effort, no one will buy it, it's too complex, I've not even touched sidelines yet, what am I doing here? So then I stopped at that moment, yeah? Yeah.
speaker-1: And then the thing is if you go if you c if you don't cover everything they're gonna hate you for it because they want hey, someone played this weird line and you didn't tell me what to do. Yeah. But also if you go and cover everything, it's gonna be too long, too too much. Not to mention all the work that you have to put into it.
speaker-0: Yeah. And also put lots of words, you know, like explanations. So
speaker-1: I'll I'll give you an idea. If I had to do another one, I would do it on the English opening. The English opening you kn i number one, if you play Sicilian, you're very familiar with it. It's like a referred Sicilian with an extra tempo. But what I like about the English is that you could play it in so many different ways. Like I play the way when I play it, and when I recommend it on the YouTube channel, I recommend the bottomic triangle where you go C four, D three, E four, and then different cuto. That's a system in itself. You explain the strategic plans around the the triangle. You got yourself a system.
speaker-0: I made one video about this from Black's perspective, reversed what Phoenix set up actually.
speaker-1: And and that's that's an add on to it because you could play it as black as well.
speaker-0: Right. Maybe I okay, now I have some ideas. Now I have some ideas, Robert. You're giving me some ideas. That's good. Exactly right. It sound strategic. You can outplay people, not as crazy clashing as Nydorf, you know, less comital. And you can outplay people strategically. Absolutely. Yeah. That's all great news, man. Yeah, little bit of s you selfish part of the interview here. But I guess our our you know our audience is also enjoying this discussion so far. cool, cool. And because okay, then last couple of points I want to discuss as well, yeah. So So you also had experience with teaching kids, right? Together with adults across the years. I haven't worked with many kids so far actually. So I mean, because I also have so many questions from my subscribers as well, you know, they keep asking me about difference between kids and adults. How come kids are so so strong and powerful and they learn much faster, let's say. I mean, do you what kind of differences do you see generally when you're teaching them? Let's start from there, right? And I will be following it up with the question of what kind of teaching methods then we can use with different audience here.
speaker-1: Exactly. Well, you know, I know there's scientific evidence that because of neuroplasti plasticity, kids learn faster and then adults. In my experience, it's not the case. Like of course I have students who are early already and you can tell it it's not the same speed. Right? Like I I've I have my oldest student, I'm always proud to say that he's eighty something. He must be like eighty-four.
speaker-0: Nice.
speaker-1: He's still very active in his field. He's very sharp. Very smart. But still, like we struggle sometimes to, hey, can you share your screen on Zoom? And you know it's not it's not that something like that. now adults, let's say normal, like you know, in someone in his you know forties, fifties, sixties, I find that actually to be easier to teach adults because I mean you already have an expertise in a no different field. Like let's say you are whatever field you're in, you can relate it to chess. yeah, this concept I do it in music, I do it in I do
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: it in business. It's it's always like that. I have martial artists, all kind of students I've had who can make connections to chess.
speaker-0: Uh-huh.
speaker-1: so because of that it's easy. Number one, adults they don't have as much time. Kids, I always say my best students have been the ones who number one, the talent isn't there. There's nothing you can do about that. But also the ones who are always doing tactics. They have an iPad or a book or or whatever. And what were you doing this week? I have did this amount of tactics, tactics, tactics, tactics and playing games. That in itself and then kids also listen to you. like you tell them what to do and they get it done.
speaker-0: They do it.
speaker-1: Yeah. My typical adult student either is very busy, they don't have time, they just meet with me once a week and then they play some games. Even though I give them a training plan, they think
speaker-0: Don't do it.
speaker-1: Do you know some of them do, but not like kids. Like kids they get it done. It's like homework already. Or they have or they have their mom or their dad, Hey, did you do it? and then they they get it done. adults they have they're busy, but also adults they start doing their own thing. Like I I'm like, hey what did you do this? No yeah, you know, I didn't do that, but I saw Gotham Chess did a video on on this trap and I learned it
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: And then after three months I always give the same example. You have I've had the case of a dad and the kid, hey, I want you to teach my kid but also work wait make with me a different day and teach me. Fine. Three months. Do this, do this. In three months the kid did tactics, tactic, tactics, play games. The dad skipped a few lessons because he's busy and he has other things, but then in the meantime he was reading about Bobby Fisher's story. what amazing story. he's opening learning quick opening traps to defeat his kid that is popping out quickly. Uh-huh. And then after three months, there's no way you can compare the adult who's been learning about chess history or strategy
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: and all of this beautiful part of chess. compared to the kid that is only doing forks, pins, skewers, mace one, mace two and playing a lot, you just cannot keep up. And once that kid gets the lead, you're not gonna get Exactly.
speaker-0: This is so interesting because I also have similar experiences with adults. Like they have their own ways sometimes to do things. I sometimes give them homework. Okay, you're on the right level for my elevator course. You must do it. I got great feedback from people, people are improving. Please do it. He doesn't do it. He has other yeah like life kicks in, he's of they are of course abusive, they have other ideas. So and also they sometimes, you know, think again like they question their beliefs oftentimes. That's also what Andra Stoth says. You know, they might actually know the pattern, but they might you know doubt themselves for example. They might think that they know better. and so on then they can actually you know self-confidence wise as well I think kids can actually be even more confident to apply the patterns they they know actually so it comes
speaker-1: And and I think I also there's an element of motivation. like for example kids I I always ta I teach all of my students, even my eighty four year old student, I teach them as if they were going to compete in tournaments. Now when kids start to go to tournament that's a whole new world. And we know it. Like it's not the same when you play online to when you actually go to a tournament. That's that's a real deal. Yeah. And then compare that to an adult who just plays for fun when he has the time or she has the time. I it's not the same. It's not the same. I only have a few not a few but n it's not everyone, every adult that I work with who has that personality that is like, you know, you know what, I gotta get it done. Like I have this lady I work with, she lives in Singapore She has made amazing progress, but she's you can tell, she's this kind of person that like I think her daughter just left to the US for college and she's like, Okay, I have nothing to do now, I'm gonna put my time into chess. Right. She's done everything. I gave her a training plan before we even meet, she's like, Hey, I completed this, what can I do next? And then she's doing it. But
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: you can tell just like that in every aspect aspect of her life, right? So it doesn't ha it has nothing to do with her being an adult or a kid, just just putting it.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: And that applies to life in general. You put in the time over an extended period of time and you see results. So that's the way it is.
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. It's I think adults are also better because you know, when it comes to learning we can maybe talk about three broad categories, maybe more, yeah. But the first thing is deep processing or the speed of processing, you know, that whether you learn the chunks or how quickly you actually learn new patterns and chunks, right? So there's that dimension of course. But there's also, you know, self regulation and self monitoring directions. How can you regulate your own you know, let's say your own mind or your own behaviors, can you self monitor yourself are you are you thinking about your own ways of learning for example right can you actually stop distractions when you're studying can you let the give the you know leave the phone phone in the other room you know all these things I think it also are good when it comes to that like self-regulation self-monitoring they can do it they can exert self-control but the amount of time that they put and that also determines yeah like because chess is mostly a game of pattern recognition you need those patterns in your long-term memories and also forgetting curve kicks in right you keep Forgetting as well, you have to like repeat some information on a regular basis, right? So much about the grind of long-term grind and staying motivated and keep on learning and having this long-term mindset. Okay, okay.
speaker-1: That's it.
speaker-0: So that's but how about that lady that she puts all the work by the way? Is she improving already? You can you see the results on her? Like just
speaker-1: She just had a complete beginner, like she was there at the 300, 400, so frustrated, I don't know why I keep making these mistakes and this and that. And he's already about to break a thousand. And this has been a matter of months. But again, she's putting the time. And you know at that level you gotta do is vision of the board, your tactics, but People don't. People a lot of people what they do is opening opening traps, opening traps. And then they wonder why they blown the repeats on move number twenty five. Yeah. but no, she's making nice progress. And I always tell her it's not about her rating. Hmm. Like right before she broke I think seven hundred, she was getting frustrated, like I can I'm playing my husband, he never takes just lessons and he's beating me or my daughter. And I'm like, just enjoy the process. I can see your games. You're losing some of these games I but I see the quality of the game is better. So when I update my notes, I don't care if you won or lose. I'm just saying that you're not leaving pieces hanging anymore, not as before. You're actually seeing simple tactics, you're developing your pieces, things like that. Last time we met on Wednesday yesterday, she's like, my husband cannot beat me anymore. Right? And then she's already about to break a thousand. But it takes time. Now that's her. Maybe someone else doing exactly the same thing she's doing, it takes an an an extra two, three months. Or maybe there's another person who does it two, three months earlier. We're all different, but one thing is for certain. You put in the time consistently and you're gonna get there.
speaker-0: Yeah. Because I must ask him because just like me, you also s let's say started chess seriously when you were a little bit older, right? Like almost like a teenager years basically. Like you were yeah, you were not such a early child when you actually started working on chess seriously. Because that also is important, right, as a teacher and a coach, to imagine what our typical adult learners are at and you know, because Marcus Carlson cannot explain anything to us because all the patterns are so automatized in his brain, right? But we can actually remember those times like like you did pro pro probably, right? Like how you improving gradually across the years, how your calculation was improving, the apply depth of calculation was improving and so on. You can remember consciously the amount of time you put and the results you got. Right.
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-0: That's a big strength I believe as as a coach, right?
speaker-1: Absolutely. And I remember like sometimes I'm working with my students and they're like, you're probably looking at me there bored and I'm like no no I'm actually looking at this remembering the first time I worked on this. Like I still remember the first time I learned about the Lucina Endgame. the first time I learned and I tell them for example the Lucina I bring it up a lot because first time I learned it, I remember that was in the chess academy, the coach was there with a big board. We were sitting down, he explains the Lucina. You guys understand? Yes, can someone come up here and demonstrate? Someone went up and demonstrated, you got it. I didn't get it. I was like, yeah, I get it, but I when I finished that session, I couldn't do it. I understood, yeah, there's a bridge and this and that. It wasn't until I got into one of my games, playing Blitz and the Chess Academy, and someone pointed out, hey, you messed this up, this little scene, and they demonstrated they are
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Right. So I remember that those processes. So when they're frustrated, I tell them, look, I went through the same thing. Relax. We're gonna bring force it again and come back to it. I know that on the fifth time it's gonna click. Yeah. And you can never assume. You have to always look at it from the learner's perspective. And that makes it much, much easier. And and keep them keep him encouraged and keep things as clear as possible. I always tell them, look We learned today I had a session at 7 a.m. first first time I worked with the person. He amazing tactics and everything. He didn't know how to do the checkmate with one work. Right? Okay. He's gone through life without that. Probably he's gotten it one or twice, maybe he blew it, but it's not a big deal. We learned it today. He got it. But I told him, look, don't even think for a moment if you're frustrated because at some point we're gonna be doing an exercise, maybe a tactic where you have to win a piece. When you do that, instead of going to the next exercise, I'm going to ask you to let's finish it at the TN, let's convert. And I'm gonna make him play the do the one rope checkmate.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: If he gets it perfectly, we don't have to touch it anymore. But if I see that he struggles, do it again. Do it again. And that's it. I just gotta keep track of it on my notes and make sure that we reinforce it.
speaker-0: Yeah. So a couple of insights there. I will go back to your notes and your teaching methods in in a short time because that's so beautiful also for me to to learn as coach. but you actually said something very important there that you really learned how Lucena worked only after you failed in your own game. So that became relevant for you, right? Because we discussed exactly same thing with Sorwai recently and also with Nick Vasquez, right? It's also called productive failure. Like you actually try And you'll actually learn from your mistakes. You have to make some mistakes, but those mistakes become very productive once you reflect on your mistakes and once you actually get the right lessons. Then it becomes relevant. And of course, human brains, right? We learn much more when things are relevant for us. Otherwise, we just quickly forget information, right? Just the more the more
speaker-1: The more they heard, the better.
speaker-0: they hurt the better. I was having a group lesson last week and one student told me this. He only learns like a war scar. He loses a game and sh he keeps those scars and only then he burns that information to his brain, right? It's so important to to not to discourage ourselves from our mistakes and losses. Yeah, that they're actually great great growth opportunities for us when it comes to that
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: connects to your coaching lessons because you mentioned you you're keeping track of some notes, right? You're basically looking at the students' games I guess, right? You gain information, you even track those mistakes across the years, right? Across the months basically. You're like an Excel sheet.
speaker-1: Exactly. No, basically what I do when I work with someone, I open a Google chit and I put their name, their username and everything. And every time we meet, I put a date, what we covered, and then any any things, any highlights. we need to reinforce this or we need to do that. And and then I just gotta make sure that then I find the right moment and the right exercises to to reinforce it. And that's it. And sometimes I have it it's also true. Sometimes I have a lesson prepared, like I have to meet with you next week, we have to talk about this and this. And then we meet, I talk to you at the beginning, I always ask them, what did you do this week? Some of them tell me, nothing, or I did this. And we might just not do what I have prepared. Maybe we just do something else because of the feedback that they give me. But I know we have to do it at some point. Maybe we'll do it the next time or or or And
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: again, it's just a matter of being consistent, reinforcing those ideas, and we just don't know when, but at some point we're gonna we're gonna make progress and get to that next level. It's just the way it is.
speaker-0: Yeah, it's so important Robert. I mean you mentioned because I also keep track of the mistakes and yeah, like at least keep a file to to also for me as a coach, right, to see what has changed across the years. I sometimes once we spot a problem, for example, right, I give them in my group lessons, I give them simultaneous exhibitions that let's say one guy cannot attack properly, he just fails, he doesn't take any risks. I force them to actually play attacking game against me and crush me, right? On the attacking side. And once you see the growth across the months, of course they fail initially, but maybe after After two months he is actually improving at that. So it's one of the sweetest feeling as a coach, you know, also from the student side.
speaker-1: And for themselves too, yeah.
speaker-0: For themselves too. Yeah. I think it's one of our core, let's say, you know, talents as a coach. Like to really, really identify those important recurrent issues and provide material, provide support and also make them more accountable across across the the years.
speaker-1: I'm o I think probably the most important thing is the support and really put it out there. Like Many times when I meet with someone and I tell them, Hey, how do you feel? How's just going? How is just treating you? They're like, Horrible. I've had a bad week, I've lost this amount of games. But then those things that I wanted to improve, they improved it. It's just that they just had a bad day yesterday and they lost five games, that's what they remember. They feel like they're not making progress. But when you zoom out and I tell them, Look, let's look at your stats in the last month. You went up eighty seven points. That's pretty good. I mean the last week was horrible.
speaker-0: That's amazing.
speaker-1: But if you zoom out and then if you look at the games, look remember how before move number twenty before you used to drop a piece every single time? It's not happening anymore. Now you're not losing because like this lady from Singapore, we were talking about that. The problems she had before was that she was hanging pieces or her opponents were hanging pieces that you didn't see it.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Now the problem she had, last time we met we talked about defense. It's that she's trying to checkmate her opponent. But she's not caring about her opponent trying to checkmate her. So she's about to checkmate the opponent, but she gets checkmated first. So she's not thinking about defense. And I tell her, Look, we've been working for this amount of months. I've been loading you with tactics to attack, to contribute to checkmate. We haven't talked about defense. There's no way you could be good at defending it. Now we start to reinforce that area. And that's it. And then the difficult part as a coach and as a sp player is that as you learn a new concept, let's say difference in this in this case, you have to keep working with everything else. It's not like you put everything on hold and use no, you have to keep doing everything together. Like
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: like like like music. You have to have everyone working together and in harmony. Yeah it's it it's
speaker-0: The the bucket as a hole, the bucket keeps leaking, so you have to like you have to keep mending it at the same time. Yeah, you cannot just leave them on its own course basically.
speaker-1: That's a margin rate.
speaker-0: Like another another issue for for educators also is that you know in the current day and age, there's so much material out there, right, Robert? Like there's so many candies that is next thing might you know, like people are getting confused basically about this. You know, vast amount of choices. as well. Then do you have some sort of, you know, let's say certain courses, certain structure, there are certain positions that you know by heart that you direct your students into without them getting overwhelmed, for example. Like
speaker-1: But I think what I found to be the most useful useful and depending on on the level that they're at, when we meet for the first lesson, I get an idea I do an assessment, I know where they are at, and then I give them a simple training plan. So here you have it's just a a Google like an Excel. Yeah. And then with these resources, there are like three or four resources after so many years that I have already allocated for my beginner students, for my intermediate, my by my for my advanced so I just I just them like two or three resources and then I just ask them to stick to that. And then depending on how they do, we change it. We remove this, we add that, depending on their feedback and their progress, and that's it. And I tell them anything you do out of this, I'm okay with whatever you want to do. Anything just related is good as long as you did this before. Also, I'm not asking them to spend 20 hours on what I'm giving them. I just tell them, look, if you give me 45 minutes a week or an hour. and you hit the tactics, let's say chess tempo. You're at a level that I'm recommending chess tempo to you. We do chess tempo for 45 minutes a week. For endgames, I always refer them to my YouTube playlist on endgames.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: Not to get the views, but because I always tell them, I've never read an entire endgame book. Whatever you have on that playlist is what I know, which is a basic keynote ponds, basic keynote. Other than that is my ability to calculate. And if it has worked for me, it's worked for you. So that's what they do. Those videos are like 10-15 minutes long. If you watch one a week, we're good. Then there's another playlist about strategy, which is all the videos that I've put out on strategy. That's it. You have strategy, endgame, tactics, depending on where you are, I give you a resource. And then play your games. If you stick consistently, that's it. And that's how we avoid all the noise. I had a an interview, I don't know if you know Avitic from Chess Movie.
speaker-0: Yes.
speaker-1: He told me something that is very, very true. He said, I'd rather have someone spend a month, two months, three months just doing research on finding the right resources.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Yeah, you find this resource or this person who's gonna teach me openings. This guy's gonna teach me strategies and once you have that in place, start working on it consistently. Yeah. And that's true. Sometimes we just yeah like you said, so much information for free and you go from this to that and you're just not making progress.
speaker-0: Yeah. I think at this day and age of bombardment of information out there, you know, that becomes a crucial part. Again this connects with self-regulation, self-nurturing, like you know, being conscious about what kind of study methods we are employing as as learners. You know, that becomes a crucial part. To be aware of the vast amount of resources. But you know, what is the most relevant for my current level right now? Yeah, for the best outcomes.
speaker-1: We gotta bring back the old school tissues. Like I would say when I first went to the Chess Academy, it was not like, hey, you have no, it was like look, this this book is in Russian, even though we speak Spanish, it's in Russian, that's all we got. Go home, read it. That's it. That's all that's all you had. Forget about getting into the onto the internet or you finally finish that book, bring it back. Here's the next one. Bring it back. The next one.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah, you cannot ask and many of those books were Again, Russian, they were old, they were broke and you couldn't break it anymore, you get in trouble. So do that, play your game such as Academy, come back, repeat. That's it.
speaker-0: That's it. You also preach them to play mini games, mostly rapid or classical games during the week, or you preach bliss as well?
speaker-1: Well I I always say like in life you have to keep a balance. Right. So I think I like him to have a balance between rapid and mix. I always tell him to have the increment. So t for me ideally you'd be playing a combination of five fives and fifteen tens.
speaker-0: Right.
speaker-1: Depending on the person I have people who love to play rapid and they hate Blitz. So to that person I tell them, Give me at least a day of the week where you play Blitz. You gotta have 'cause even if you play a two hour game, you could get into time pressure. And if you've never played Blitz, you're gonna be playing a beautiful game and then you play like a baby, with three minutes left, freaking out. Yeah. And then Especially the younger kids, they love to play Blitz and then I tell them, Look, give me at least a day of the week where you play a rapid game and we keep that balance, right? But yeah, I'm I'm okay with that. Ultimately, depending on the level that you are at, just play. If you just play I'm happy with that. But but yeah, we have to have that balance.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's also crucial because some adults, you know, they like to study more. They like to have this let's say academic approach to things. That's all why I said. You know, they tend to read a lot about, you know, let's say historical facts, but they sometimes forget, you know, how important it is to also play and test yourself in their environment.
speaker-1: You have to have to do it. And also some people, especially adults, not everyone, but I have some students that they don't play because they don't like to lose.
speaker-0: Right. And that's drinking.
speaker-1: Very true.
speaker-0: Yeah, again, it's again you know intent of the teacher, the psychological side of things, they they have to convince themselves. Also scientifically it's backed up, right? Productive failure. Mistakes are welcome, they're opportunities for growth. Otherwise progress is tall basically.
speaker-1: It's not easy and you you were asking before about kids versus adults. That's another thing that I've noticed about adults. Adults like I I've worked with a lot of people who are really good at what they do, whatever their field is. And then it's tough with them. Like imagine you are the CEO of a company or you are this great right and then all of a sudden you're playing chess and you're getting you're getting beat by these little kids too much.
speaker-0: Right. Right. You feel really stupid, right deep inside.
speaker-1: I yeah, I and you know of course, ninety percent of people they like I mean it's just again it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect me. But some people do, they're so competitive that they don't like that and it could be an obstacle. Yeah.
speaker-0: I think it's because a couple of reasons, because it's sometimes so one and zero the game, right? You either lose or you win. But there's also the whole connotation of chess, you know, measures intelligence, smartness, you know, like this connotations about life and from society, right? You feel like you're inferior, like mentally, cognitively somehow to the guy who just beat you. It has nothing to do with that, of course, it's mostly about patterns and chunks and years of experience.
speaker-1: That's that's true.
speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Yeah. So it's ki requires, you know, this Buddhistic mentality, you know, about about things in general. Like this, you know, like yeah, the ego side I think is also difficult also when it comes to this. That might always also explain why some adults are risk averse. Also in life, as you grow you know older, you generally become more risk averse, then also you don't take many risks and then you shy away from new tournaments and new games and it's hard.
speaker-1: It's another choice.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean you must also feel like a psychiatrist sometimes, right? As as a chess coach basically, like
speaker-1: Yeah, like I know a guy I know a guy who's who's trying to stay away from creating a chess of the course and you know, he's just
speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. You became my psychiatrist today. Robert, it's been an amazing conversation. I mean, like, okay, let's wrap it up because it's already like around one hour mark. I mean, I enjoy it thoroughly and I will probably invite you again because this podcast is just starting. I am just like like a new improver. I'm an improver interviewer. I will get better over time. I'm you know having a growth mindset, learning from mistakes. But it I really enjoyed our discussion, Robert. I mean
speaker-1: Likewise.
speaker-0: Thank you so much. Final thoughts. Let's talk about the future. I mean, are you working on a new chessable course? Is it coming?
speaker-1: I'm wr I'm working on one about strategy. And yeah, still working on the on the material but it should be coming
speaker-0: Well, I mean I I'm the strategy guy, so I I published six courses on strategy so we can have a n another session if you have some mental blocks like I do.
speaker-1: I can't talk about the
speaker-0: That's cool. Okay. How about your YouTube channel? Because I there is no new videos for the last couple of months. I mean, is it active?
speaker-1: Yeah. No it is I think I did a live stream last week. Cool but I was out for well we moved and then we had a hurricane.
speaker-0: Of course the hurricane, forget about that, yes.
speaker-1: And I said, Well let me take a couple of weeks off but then it those weeks turned into months. I don't know how what happened there. It's just time flies when you have kids and you're busy. But no no no, definitely going back. Exactly.
speaker-0: Yeah. It's an amazing thing, you know, like as as an educator, as a YouTuber, I'm just experiencing myself recently as I'm reaching almost fifteen thousand subscribers, you know, almost on a s daily level, you get amazing feedback from people, you know? Like you must have also experienced the same thing. It's like another b best feelings as
speaker-1: I still I still get it. Like I don't respond much because I'm busy, but I get on my phone an email with the comments. Yeah. And it's amazing. And not only people say, thanks for explaining this or for covering this, or people really appreciate the fact that it's in order and restructured. But I get a lot of comments, I went to my first tournament, I used this and this they taught me and I won a tournament, or I did this, or I taught it to a friend. Or I get a lot of people who are I s I begin today, lesson number one and I put the date. October seventeenth. There you go. And then you see on another video, video number twenty, okay, this date. And you see that they're keeping it they're doing it.
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Exactly. And I've met people who actually have told me, Hey, you know what? I've been at this one in my life and I said I picked up chess just to get distracted and thanks to your videos I got into it and it's been great. So absolutely very very
speaker-0: So Don't stop because it's so motivating, so beautiful also for the community. You bring value to it. So I'd love to see more of your videos, man. Also your courses. Again, guys, check Robert Ramirez. I mean, you know him, of course, you know his YouTube channel. He has two amazing chessable courses on the King's Indian perts and also Reverse Stonewall. He's now working on a strategy course. We'll be hoping that we publish soon. And you will also check that out. And please let us know how you like this video, comments, likes, subscribe, all these things you know. Okay, guys. And thank you so much again, Robert, for coming here. And
speaker-1: Thank you for
speaker-0: I will catch you very soon. Thank you so much, man. Have a great time. Bye bye.
