Dolly Parton, Clancy Trial Takes, Young Men Entangled in the Addicition Economy

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Welcome back to the Bully Pulpit podcast where two pastors,
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an ethics professor, and a political operative discuss news and
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politics from a Christian and conservative perspective. The Bully Pulpit
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is a podcast of Known Jesus Ministries whose mission is
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to proclaim timeless truths in every sphere of life. Boys,
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I gotta tell you over here from Tennessee, we're mourning.
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We're in a state of grief. Flags are lowered at
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half mass. The queen herself, the Appalachian queen, Passed away.
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Dolly Parton is gone.
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I thought it was because Tennessee football is starting.
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That too.
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Sorry.
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I've got a friend of mine who works in Tennessee's government,
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and I texted him and I said, I'm assuming today
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is like DEFCON level one for the governor in terms
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of putting out the statements and Um, and, and the
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person replied, yes, this is absolutely DEFCON one for the
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state of Tennessee.
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Hmm.
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And it's a, I mean, like she's, she is like,
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as someone observed on social media, um, Dolly Parton got
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praised by the president of the United States and the
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democratic socialists of America.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So I don't really, I'll show my cards here. I
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don't really have well-developed Dolly Parton takes. I didn't grow
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up in country music. I did live in Nashville area
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for six years. Again, it was still not my thing.
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But I respect American greatness. She's obviously a cultural icon.
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But I don't have many takes beyond that. But it's sad.
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It's a human being who's passed away. And she was
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one of the few elements of cultural.
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Unity right now.
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As a seminary professor, Andrew doesn't know what it means
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to be working 9 to 5.
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Yes, no idea. No idea.
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Well, I had the worst take ever, and I'm embarrassed
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by this. I didn't know she was still alive.
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Oh, man.
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What's the last time you heard from Dolly Parton?
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I'll tell you the last time, and this is my
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only Dolly Parton take, is you guys are way older
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than me, so you may not.
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Know this, but.
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She started a nonprofit organization that sends books for free
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through the mail to kids.
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Yeah, I knew about that.
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Really great books, and I.
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Don't know how many millions of these things she's sent
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over the years, but– Clearly, she identified that literacy in
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early childhood was really important, and she donated a ton
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of her wealth to just freely distributing these great books
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to kids.
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I knew about that, which is really neat.
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Well, here's the only problem. It was a little bit
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too little too late because Eric Reid didn't get the book.
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I didn't get one book. I didn't get one book
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in the mail, and it shows.
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It shows.
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Those books were like, you know, for phonics and pronunciation.
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All the books behind me are the Dolly Parton books, guys.
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It's the only one I ever got.
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Dolly failed Eric Reid.
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Hey, you said she was praised by the president and
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by Democrats. Isn't that why y'all are anti-Tim Keller? The
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same reason?
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I'm not anti-Tim Keller.
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Too soon.
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Come on. Yeah, y'all are.
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Okay, here's my Dolly Parton take, okay? I'm a native Tennessean,
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lived there my whole life other than my time in
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the military and You have to understand Dolly is royalty
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in Tennessee, particularly East Tennessee. She grew up in a
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very poor family. I mean, she grew up in the
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Appalachian mountains. She was one of like 12 or 13 children, very,
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very poor. And you know, her father wasn't educated. Nobody
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in her family was educated, but she, she was sharp.
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She was very skilled. She learned at an early age
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that her singing was Um, and her, and her beauty
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had got her attention. She could leverage it. She's done
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interviews talking about how she knew she had to learn business.
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She knew she was good at music, but if she
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wanted to actually get out of her situation, she needed
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to learn business and she did. But the thing is,
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is she never, she never kind of, uh, became an
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elitist that looked down or despised her upbringing. Um, she
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always honored the people from which she came. And I'll
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tell you this, I think there's something very commendable about Dolly.
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You know, you could argue for most of her life,
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she was viewed as a sex symbol. You know, people
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saw her as like this attractive. There was always Dolly
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Parton jokes and stuff because of her looks. But listen,
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she was never unfaithful to her husband. Her husband stayed
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out of the limelight for all of her career. And
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he just died last year. She was faithfully married to
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him from the time she was in her 20s until
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he died last year. No infidelity, no stories of scandal,
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and she was faithful. She was an identified Christian. I
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don't think she was discipled very well. I think she
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had some views that we would say were very immature
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about thinking about the sexuality issues and the woke era
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and stuff like that, but Dolly was never woke. But
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Dolly was a philanthropist, and she was a.
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She cared about.
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Helping kids I'm sorry man I couldn't spit it out
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guys he was doing so well he didn't get the
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books he didn't get the.
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Books I'm so sorry as it was coming out of.
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My mouth I was watching your anticipation for what I
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was going to say.
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Sorry please consider this heartfelt reflection again.
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No, it's okay. All that to say, Dolly is a queen.
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We love her. Tennesseans and the world alike are very pro-Dolly.
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And it's a sad day. But it's a reminder. Gosh,
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she's 80 years old. My dad's 80 years old and
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still alive. And what fascinated me yesterday about hearing that
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news was like, man, my dad doesn't have any money.
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And Dolly had all the money in the world. And
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she still couldn't live a day longer than the Lord's
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sovereign plan in her life. And so there's just so
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many things about this that, I think are just interesting.
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But Dollywood, place to go if you've never been. For
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those of us who are theme park enjoyers, Dollywood is
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a blast.
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Long live Dolly. If you go to Panama City instead
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of 30A for spring break, then Dollywood is for you.
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That's right. I was trying to think as you were talking,
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who would that be in other states? You're talking about
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the level of Dolly in Tennessee. I don't know if
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anybody has one– I mean, there's more than just one
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person in Tennessee that's beloved historically, but she is such
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an icon in Tennessee. I'm like, who would that be
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in Florida? Like Jimmy Buffett? But outside the Keys. I
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didn't even know. I was thinking about Jimmy Buffett. I'm
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just trying to think of who that– when they died,
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I don't even know who that would be in Florida.
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Hey, in Kentucky, we've got Colonel Sanders.
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I mean, he died 30 years ago.
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But hey, a little known trivia, all right? Colonel Sanders'
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funeral was held in Alumni Memorial Chapel on the campus
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of Southern Seminary.
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Nice. How about that? Was that before or after MLK
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preached at it?
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Oh, yeah. I mean, wait. Oh, yeah, way after. That
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was in the 80s.
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Did he throw in strays today? Well, anyway, Dolly.
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I thought I really wanted to answer that question.
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And he's buried like less than two miles from the campus.
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Oh, yeah.
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What does it say that the first person I think
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of when I think of Florida is that lady who
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drove through the night with a diaper on so she
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could confront her cheating husband?
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I don't even know that.
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Hey, listen. Florida does have an icon. It's Florida Man.
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That is Florida Man.
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Exactly. I was going to think Walt Disney because I'm
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from Florida. Oh, yeah.
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There you go.
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He's from Missouri. Yeah, he is. Somebody posted. I was
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reading all these thoughts about Dolly. Someone wrote, there was nothing, sorry,
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there was nothing phony about her. I was like, I
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might want to use a different word. Miles Smith, y'all
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know Miles Smith.
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He made a statement on X that I thought captured
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the reality of it. He said, without exaggeration, Dolly is
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to the Appalachia what Queen Elizabeth was to the British Empire.
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Like you have to understand it's that level of identification
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and loss.
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See, I'm so far removed from that, man. I would never,
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I would never million years know that.
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Yeah.
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I knew, I knew she was big in Tennessee, but wow.
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I mean that, the queen. Yeah.
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The queen. She's the queen of the East, man. Queen
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of the East. Well, speaking of someone who is not
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a queen, but is very much in the news, um, this,
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this Clancy trial and something, she is a queen. This
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story is incredible. mind-boggling. I'm sure listeners have heard this.
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I was way late on it. Apparently people have been
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living on the TikTok investigative reporting and court. Everybody's got
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a take on TikTok. I didn't even know about the
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case until it kind of spilled out even more publicly.
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But apparently this lady who struggled with mental health issues
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killed all three of her children and attempted to kill herself,
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did not succeed. She's paralyzed now from the waist down.
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There's all kinds of debate about her husband's knowledge or
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non-knowledge about it. There's a lot of conspiracy theories developing.
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I want to get into some things to observe about
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this because I don't want to litigate the trial. I'm
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more interested in what the trial's revealed. about our culture.
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And one of those things is the almost like fanatic
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support from tons of ladies who are showing up like
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it's a tailgate party to the courtroom. And they're lining
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the road in which she's coming in in a prisoner van.
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And they're cheering for her with signs. And it's kind
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of like the whole idea that in Disney movies, the
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villains are becoming the heroes kind of thing that's going on.
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She is being celebrated as a celebrity. She is being
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lifted up. Some are saying she's innocent. Some are saying
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even if she's guilty, her mental health problems are to blame.
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I want to hit a couple of different angles on
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this thing, but let's just begin with some of your
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reactions as you've been watching this outpouring of female support
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behind her.
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Eric, what's the, or I don't know any of you,
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if you were going to steel man, the, the argument
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of why, like what's the best argument for why we've
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seen what you just described?
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I think the steel man argument is that women are,
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Some women legitimately do struggle with postpartum depression. There's the
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mental health component. We live in a very therapeutic culture.
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We live in a very feminist culture. So I think
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there's this sense of cultural solidarity that you can't judge
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a woman whose footsteps you've never walked in, especially a
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woman who's been challenged with great mental health issues. It's
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kind of one of those things where You know, if
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you haven't walked the day in my shoes, how can
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you judge my situation? She's confessed that she killed her children.
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She's falling back on mental health. And a lot of
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women are, I want to hope no women are like
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defending the murders of the children. They're defending the vulnerability
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of women who are undergoing postpartum depression.
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Yeah, but they're out there in pink with signs. Yeah.
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And like, you know, if the, if the protest was just, again,
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I don't agree with this, obviously the protest was just like,
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take postpartum depression seriously or take that seriously. But, but like,
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but she needs to be dealt with according to the law.
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And this is tragic and all these kinds of things when,
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when she's being propped up. So, so I, right.
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So I, um, She's become a martyr.
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Yeah. It's the Luigi story. That's kind of that. Yes.
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Yeah, that's a great analog.
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And the thing is that I read yesterday that previously,
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before the murders, she was not diagnosed with anything, right?
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She was not diagnosed with postpartum depression. She was not
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diagnosed with any kind of other serious mental health that
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could maybe lead to something crazy like that. I might
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be wrong on that, but that's what I read. I mean, so...
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So that's, it was like an after, it's like she
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was all of a sudden declared that after all of that.
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So I've got a, you know, Dean and I as
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pastors obviously have pastoral opinions on this question of mental
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illness versus moral culpability. But from an ethics standpoint, Andrew,
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how do you start parsing out like, okay, she's having
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very real, let's just say chemical reactions in her brain,
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this postpartum stuff. She's spiraling into emotional distress and depression.
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Let's steal men, even the best case scenario. Is there
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ever a situation where you're leaving the realm of being
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morally responsible for your actions at this point? Because pastorally,
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I would say no, even though I understand there are
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some threads there that have to be nuanced to a degree, right?
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What would you say?
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So obviously- The question you're asking has a lot of
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legal technicalities and contours that I'm not equipped to answer
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with any level of expertise. But at least one thing
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you can say is that the law does establish first-degree murder,
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second-degree murder, manslaughter. I don't think that you can get
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a blanket immunity fallback on, well, I'm just mentally ill.
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I don't think that's sufficient. I think it's a relevant category.
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But I don't think it's a sufficient category to receive
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any type of innocence in this particular situation is how
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I would at least initially assess it.
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Well, think about this. What the prosecution is arguing is
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that she planned this. She planned it. She sent her
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husband away to the store and then she executed it
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with the goal of jumping off and killing herself at
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the same time.
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And that's where this is really complicated. We don't know
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all the facts, right? You can only... make assessments based
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on the facts that are known, but you have to
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hold out dual realities. A, she could have been mentally ill.
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Sure.
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Okay. Very real.
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The other dual reality is that if there was premeditation,
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it's still premeditation, even if you're mentally ill. If you
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have a sense of consciousness of what you're doing, even
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if you're conscious that you are mentally ill, that's still
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to me, is enough to satisfy a first-degree murder charge.
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Yeah.
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Have you seen the people on social media that are
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breaking up with their girlfriends because of... Yes, I've seen it.
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It's like a filter question now. Yeah, them being pro.
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Somebody had a girlfriend that did a TikTok video in
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support of her, and the guy's like, I don't want him.
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I'm nervous to marry someone or have children with someone
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who would side with her.
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That's a rational take. And the weird thing is that like,
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you know, Tietzel in our group chat is, you know,
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deliberating on cutting us off as friends because of our
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opinions on that. So I wish we could have more
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mercy in this conversation.
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You know, here's the other thing too, that's just a
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distortion of Christian theology. It's being reported as well that
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before she murdered each one of her children, her statement
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to them was, go to God, baby. As she strangled them,
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go to God. And her intent was to then jump
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off and end her own life and join them. And
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so this is a distortion of even theology at this point,
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like taking the idea of like, you can play God,
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send your kids to heaven. Um, and then, you know,
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kill yourself and go to heaven is completely upside down thinking.
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And yet it's exactly what was being deployed here. Um,
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And this is the kind of stuff we see that
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people try to leverage theology to justify certain things. And
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we just have to stop and say, no, guys, this
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is not how you use theology or God's word in
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these scenarios.
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You know how like Lifeway and Ligonier will like release
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these polls on like the state of theology in America
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and how like actually abysmal, like basic theological literacy is
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in America. this is one of those moments where kind
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of pop theology rears its ugly head.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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And, you know, or the pop theology that's kind of like, oh, well,
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you know, I can't wait to see grandpa in his
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rocking chair when I get to heaven. Those types of
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things that are basically just kind of crutches and fallbacks
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that aren't grounded in scripture at all.
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And just to be clear, we're talking about Lindsay Clancy
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going to heaven.
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We're not talking about the the fate of the children. Correct. But,
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but just her theology about that, that as if she
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had the, you know, the ability or even the license
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to play God, go to heaven, baby, you know, that
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that's terrifying.
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But, okay.
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So let's, let's say for, just for argument's sake that
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this is mental illness.
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Okay.
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Why would it be shocking that the enemy demons, Satan,
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wouldn't work through decrepit physiology, decrepit neurochemical imbalances.
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And distortions of scripture. And distortions of scripture.
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I have no problem believing that Satan can work through
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chemical imbalances that result in atrocities like this.
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Yep.
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Of course he would, because if we're embodied creatures, what
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is the enemy going to do? The enemy is going
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to try to permeate every element of creation order with
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that nature of evil. I mean, that's Romans 8. All
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of creation is groaning. All of creation doesn't have an
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asterisk that says, with the exception of your mind and
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neural pathways.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and to that point, you know, Andrew, it's woe
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to those who call evil good and good evil.
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Yeah.
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And that's what I think, I think that's what the
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big cultural reckoning is in our society, is this is
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inconceivably evil, right? The deliberation, apparently she was like making
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her children stand by and wait as she strangled each
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one individually, and so they knew what was coming. And
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it's it's unfathomable that, that evil could manifest in this degree.
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And yet here we are.
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Do you think it, um, in a weird way, isn't.
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Unfathomable given the moral atrocity of abortion that we've, that's
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exactly what I was sort of like embraced. And we, we,
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we have made the argument, repeatedly, there's no difference between
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the inherent worth of a pre-born child and a post-born child.
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That's exactly what I was going to ask.
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And relied on the idea that if you can kill
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a pre-born child, why can't you kill a... And the
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moral intuition that, well, one of those is obviously wrong.
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If there are a bunch of women in pink hats
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celebrating a mother who just murdered her kid, is it
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because they lost the plot?
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And actually there is some semblance of them that would say...
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There's a bridge. There's a bridge there. Yeah, I think
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there's bridge for the pro-choice, pro-abortion movement to finding yourself
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lining the entrance of a courtroom dressed in celebratory paraphernalia
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to support a woman who you've never met for killing
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her kids. There's a bridge there.
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There's definitely a bridge there. I think it's undeniable.
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And who are these people? I can't imagine.
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Who are these people? Yeah, who are they? Are they married?
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Do they have children?
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I can't imagine someone in their right mind thinking, you
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know what I want to do? I want to take
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my free time and go wear the pink hats and
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identify with this person as a martyr. I'm thankful that
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there's enough normalcy in my local community that I can't
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imagine anyone within like 18 degrees of separation that would
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entertain this as in any sense reasonable.
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Can I offer one more layer to this that I
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think is interesting? I also think there's a piece of
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this connected to the inherent skepticism that we've got in
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our culture over the simplest, most probable story of why
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something happened. So everything's a conspiracy theory, right? That's where
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I'm getting at. Like Charlie Kirk being shot by this
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guy can't be possible. I mean, Candace Owens has now
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just created a whole career in financial pipeline off of
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questioning what seems to be the clearest, most likely explanation
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of what happened to Charlie. And that's not uncommon in
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lots of things right now. Everything is a question mark.
398
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Everything is, there's actually a real story underneath the story.
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And I think that this is just another iteration of
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that to some degree.
401
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I think you're absolutely right.
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One more question on this, and I want to get
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Teets and I want to get Andrew to think about this.
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So God gives government, Romans 13, They carry the sword.
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They are to administer justice, punish evildoers. What's the role
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of the magistrate in a situation like this? And why
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does what they do matter for what kind of country
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and what kind of culture we're becoming?
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Well, I haven't been following this case, but if she
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admitted that she murdered her kids, then she's going to
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spend the rest of her life locked away. And it's
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either going to be in an institution or in a prison.
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And that feels just to me.
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And if she's, where is she from? What state is
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she from?
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I don't know. What state is she in?
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Massachusetts. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right.
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Massachusetts.
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I don't know if they have the death penalty. If
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she's convicted and it's found that she didn't have any
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sort of mental condition that would explain this unbelievable atrocity, um, then,
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you know, the ultimate punishment seems warranted, uh, in this
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guy's eyes.
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Absolutely.
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So I'm, I completely agree with Tietzel. Um, she needs
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to be locked away in an institution the rest of
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her life, or she needs to face the death penalty problem.
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And I say, this is someone who is very, very
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much in favor of the death penalty. That's a whole
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separate conversation. Um, very much in favor of it. How
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we practice the death penalty in the United States of America,
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I'm not prepared to call it unjust, but I'm prepared
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to call it very inefficient and very stupid and only
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something that the government could concoct. Because we put people
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on death row and we put them on death row
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for decades. And so to me, if you're going to
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do capital punishment, you do it like they did it
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to the Nazis at Nuremberg. You convict them And then
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you swiftly execute them afterwards.
440
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Yep.
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Um, so.
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When did we leave doing that as a society?
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I don't know.
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I'm, I'm a little cynical about this because to me,
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inevitably she lives in a blue state and regardless of
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what the verdict is, she's just going to be in
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some type of institution or a prison the rest of
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her life.
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Yeah, that's true.
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Um, so you, for you guys, I'm curious, uh, We
451
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acknowledged at the front, and I think importantly, that postpartum
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depression is a real thing. I'm sure we all know
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people who've struggled with it. So you as pastors, what
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do you do if you have someone in your life
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that you're worried about in this regard?
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Yeah, well, one thing I'm still, to go back a step,
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I'm still really just shaking my head at these women
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who are out there in the streets celebrating. And it's like,
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what do you do if you have someone that's in
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your orbit that maybe they're not up there physically but
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are defending the person on social media or are celebrating
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it or are making it a women's rights issue? It's
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just like, man, that is a– again, I would not
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want that person– if I was a single man, I
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would not– even if I wasn't a believer, I wouldn't
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want to marry that woman. I'm not saying she's going
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to kill her baby, but if she's okay with it,
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that just makes me nervous. For a church member that
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is going through postpartum depression, we've been there before. Reed
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and I have absolutely had that happen with church members.
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I think it's 100% support that you believe them 100%.
472
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I think one thing that's really important is that pastors
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have a trusted Rolodex of Christian counselors who you believe
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will take good care of the people God's entrusted you to.
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I sent two text messages today. sharing a contact of
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a counselor I really trust here in town. It wasn't
477
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postpartum depression related, but it was children related in terms
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of children going through grief. And I think that's a
479
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really important thing because there's so many people out there
480
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that just are a licensed counselor, they call themselves. And
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that just might mean they're a glorified social worker and
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got a second, you know, one more step certification. And
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we give so much power to these people, many of
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these therapists who are out there. So we have to
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be so daggum careful about who we're paying. And shout
486
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:54.420
out to Dean on this.
487
00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:59.069
I can attest to Dean's regular rhythms and habits in
488
00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:03.329
doing this. He was dealing with a pastoral situation a
489
00:27:03.349 --> 00:27:05.750
couple months back in his church, and he sent me
490
00:27:05.789 --> 00:27:08.940
a text and said, hey, I got this situation going on.
491
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:12.180
Can you direct me to some resources that could help
492
00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:14.140
these people? And it was an area kind of in
493
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.200
my wheelhouse, sent him those resources.
494
00:27:16.579 --> 00:27:18.160
We jumped on him.
495
00:27:18.349 --> 00:27:23.039
He's off to the races. And pastors... Pastors are not omnicompetent.
496
00:27:23.059 --> 00:27:26.319
They're not experts in everything. And it's really good to
497
00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:30.539
acknowledge your limitations. But as Dean said, to have that
498
00:27:30.619 --> 00:27:33.569
Rolodex of names and institutions that you trust to go
499
00:27:33.609 --> 00:27:34.369
to for resources.
500
00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:36.609
Yeah, and I think in addition to that.
501
00:27:36.730 --> 00:27:37.210
Oh, go ahead, Dean.
502
00:27:37.250 --> 00:27:37.529
Go ahead.
503
00:27:37.890 --> 00:27:40.710
Well, yeah, and then I think also to have just
504
00:27:40.970 --> 00:27:42.890
an awareness. I think one of the things that a
505
00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:46.750
children's ministry can do... Our children's ministry is who directs
506
00:27:46.809 --> 00:27:49.849
this part, but in terms of visiting and caring for
507
00:27:49.970 --> 00:27:52.819
the couple after... after the baby, you know, where they
508
00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:55.259
arrange meals and go by and bring them a gift that,
509
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.740
you know, that kind of thing. I think also just
510
00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:58.420
keep your eyes open.
511
00:27:59.059 --> 00:27:59.180
Yeah.
512
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.859
You know, pay attention. You know, every new mother obviously
513
00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:04.680
is extra emotional and they're going there. Now they're not sleeping.
514
00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:07.319
You know, now they're responsible for another life 24 seven.
515
00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:09.119
I mean, no one is in their right frame of
516
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:12.519
mind perfectly, but make sure that what you're seeing after
517
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:14.099
a couple of days, a couple of weeks, I don't
518
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:16.319
know how long it takes weeks, whatever it is. If there,
519
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.500
if you see stuff out there, like you need to
520
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.880
be a good friend and a good brother, sister in Christ. And,
521
00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:24.319
and intervene, speak with the person, point them the right places.
522
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.809
So I just think church needs to be more proactive
523
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:31.130
in having just their eyes wide open and responding to things.
524
00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:34.029
Yeah, I think the only thing I would add to that,
525
00:28:34.049 --> 00:28:38.250
so I agree with connecting them to some maybe professionals
526
00:28:38.329 --> 00:28:43.059
that can create a long-term pathway and plan for meeting
527
00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:44.880
with them for sure. I think one of the things
528
00:28:44.900 --> 00:28:48.460
we also have to encourage is community within the body
529
00:28:48.579 --> 00:28:51.390
around them that they don't feel alone. And then the
530
00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:54.309
message that I think churches have to communicate, and this
531
00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:59.140
is broadly in many realms of issues, a couple of things.
532
00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:01.779
It's okay to be broken. It's okay to show up broken.
533
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:05.599
It's okay to deal with brokenness, reality issues. What we
534
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.980
don't want to say is that it's okay to live
535
00:29:08.019 --> 00:29:11.299
in your brokenness. Christ came to make us whole. And
536
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:14.259
so you don't have to persist in brokenness for the
537
00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:17.769
sake of wearing the badge. Jesus makes broken people whole.
538
00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:20.119
And that doesn't mean it happens overnight. It doesn't mean
539
00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:22.779
it happens in a day, but it does mean he
540
00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:24.599
is able. And so one of the things I think
541
00:29:24.619 --> 00:29:28.240
we have to do is to deploy the truth of
542
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:31.940
God's word that he's given us into action. So for example,
543
00:29:32.430 --> 00:29:37.289
for postpartum depression or maybe anxiety or overwhelming fear and
544
00:29:37.349 --> 00:29:40.390
panic attacks, remind people of 2 Corinthians 1. 10 and
545
00:29:40.390 --> 00:29:42.839
5 to take every thought captive in obedience to Christ.
546
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.380
Not every thought gets to run loose and have its day.
547
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.819
It doesn't get to be pregnant and have babies and
548
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.680
wreck your life. You need to take it captive. You
549
00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:53.799
need to put it in submission to Christ. And we
550
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:55.920
have to disciple our people on how to do that
551
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:57.500
because that's where it shows up. It shows up in
552
00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:00.720
the real life things like this. And I think community
553
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.279
is vital in addition to having some people around them.
554
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.519
That's huge. Okay, here's what I want to hit. Tito,
555
00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:14.029
you sent us an alarming recent study that came out
556
00:30:14.730 --> 00:30:18.349
about young men. I want to read some of this
557
00:30:18.390 --> 00:30:20.529
data and then I want to, man, we got to
558
00:30:20.549 --> 00:30:22.970
weigh in on this because we focused a lot so
559
00:30:23.029 --> 00:30:27.259
far on the women in this episode. So like the
560
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:32.230
women are being sucked into feminist, you know, ideology, and
561
00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:35.009
they're getting kind of wrapped up into this victimhood stuff.
562
00:30:36.250 --> 00:30:38.450
But what about the young men? Where are the young
563
00:30:38.509 --> 00:30:42.460
men vulnerable? Well, here's what this study says. We have
564
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.980
a generation of young men trapped in what he called
565
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.559
the addiction economy. Here's what the numbers show. One in
566
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:54.480
eight young men use porn, gamble, and play games daily.
567
00:30:55.299 --> 00:30:59.920
Gaming daily. One in eight. Porn... Gamble and gaming daily.
568
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:03.980
Almost one in four gamble every day. One in four
569
00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:10.369
use porn every day. The overall data essentially says this.
570
00:31:10.369 --> 00:31:15.890
45% of young men, 45%, are using porn, gamble, or
571
00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:19.720
use marijuana also every day. We've got an issue here.
572
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:23.619
These are all vice-related issues. This is all addiction-related issues,
573
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:25.799
and it's hammering young men.
574
00:31:26.779 --> 00:31:31.960
So the addiction economy is one level, but it's also
575
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:37.549
the attention economy. And I think these are mutually reinforcing.
576
00:31:38.390 --> 00:31:40.349
And I'll give you a sense of why.
577
00:31:40.369 --> 00:31:42.670
Expand on that attention economy. Expand on that.
578
00:31:42.769 --> 00:31:43.410
Yeah.
579
00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:48.430
So in order to addict you, they need to get
580
00:31:48.470 --> 00:31:52.170
your attention first. And so once they have your attention,
581
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.420
they can effectively manipulate algorithms to keep your attention first.
582
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.700
focused on whatever activity you're doing to the point where
583
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:06.279
it becomes like, I would argue, neurochemically reconfiguring the brain.
584
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.799
There's this idea called neuroplasticity, that the brain is kind
585
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:11.960
of a living organ that can be shaped and molded
586
00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.380
based on the inputs that are put in on the
587
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.690
brain in whatever activity you're engaging in. And here's the
588
00:32:19.710 --> 00:32:21.470
challenge in all of this, is that like, I think
589
00:32:21.490 --> 00:32:27.240
of myself as like a very discerning, well-balanced person who's
590
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:32.660
averse to these types of traps. I would put all
591
00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:36.640
four of us on this podcast in that category of self-aware,
592
00:32:37.089 --> 00:32:41.930
mature Christians, but evaluate in your own life where are
593
00:32:41.970 --> 00:32:47.289
those areas that accidentally or unintentionally you've begun to allow
594
00:32:47.349 --> 00:32:51.519
your attention to drift in ways that you really weren't
595
00:32:51.630 --> 00:32:54.529
cognizant of. The reason I bring this up is Think
596
00:32:54.569 --> 00:32:56.910
about X. All of us are on X a lot.
597
00:32:59.150 --> 00:33:01.990
I would have never called myself an addict to X.
598
00:33:02.750 --> 00:33:07.319
But what I noticed is that anytime I wasn't engaged,
599
00:33:07.819 --> 00:33:10.039
it was, well, here's an opportunity to pick up my
600
00:33:10.099 --> 00:33:11.279
phone and just scroll.
601
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:13.460
And so.
602
00:33:15.099 --> 00:33:17.180
We'll talk about the particulars of the gambling and the
603
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.900
porn and the video gaming, but I think this is
604
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:25.430
a larger cultural conversation in order to break the attention
605
00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:29.630
economy and the addiction economy. And like very practically, I bought,
606
00:33:30.170 --> 00:33:33.190
many of you might know of this app called Brick.
607
00:33:34.210 --> 00:33:34.430
Yeah.
608
00:33:34.490 --> 00:33:37.089
It's 50 bucks. It's an app that actually comes with
609
00:33:37.109 --> 00:33:40.400
like two magnetic RFID readers. And you can kind of
610
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.920
configure the app to lock down certain apps that if
611
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.259
you want to get the app open, you have to
612
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:49.579
physically stand up and go tap your phone to this
613
00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:52.440
brick on magnet thing to unlock it.
614
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:53.539
It's like a walk of shame.
615
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.500
Yeah, it's like a walk of shame.
616
00:33:55.539 --> 00:33:55.960
Exactly.
617
00:33:56.819 --> 00:34:01.440
And so I've started using that on my phone, particularly
618
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.700
to block X. And I could, like Tietzel, just take
619
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:06.619
it off my phone entirely. But there are times when
620
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.039
I think it is valuable to have my phone. But
621
00:34:09.579 --> 00:34:14.780
it goes to show you well-intentioned, well-discerning people can get
622
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:19.710
sucked into the attention economy that in time is slowly
623
00:34:19.829 --> 00:34:25.199
training and cultivating and habituating your actions in directions that
624
00:34:25.219 --> 00:34:26.500
you never intended to begin with.
625
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:29.960
There's one other piece.
626
00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:36.320
That we didn't mention related to that economy, and it's
627
00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:37.219
the gaming piece.
628
00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:43.849
Man. So we were talking about pornography, gambling, and marijuana.
629
00:34:44.269 --> 00:34:44.469
Yeah.
630
00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:48.090
But then they also added gaming to this.
631
00:34:48.130 --> 00:34:50.929
Which made a lot of people really angry because everyone's like...
632
00:34:51.579 --> 00:34:55.599
Video gaming, I had one person said it's amoral. And
633
00:34:56.059 --> 00:35:00.139
I'm willing to entertain that playing video games is amoral, perhaps.
634
00:35:01.179 --> 00:35:02.139
On the surface, yes.
635
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.829
To a degree. On the surface. Yeah.
636
00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:07.150
But eventually you're a total nerd and need to quit.
637
00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:11.789
Well, I'll give you an example, though, I think is important.
638
00:35:12.670 --> 00:35:17.650
I've got not only young men. Dean's got a big,
639
00:35:17.730 --> 00:35:20.480
massive university in his town. We have a little bit
640
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.219
of a smaller private university here, but a lot of
641
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:25.900
young men who are in college, but even I've got
642
00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:29.059
men who are married with kids in their late twenties,
643
00:35:29.179 --> 00:35:33.579
early thirties who, who get online and game and they
644
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:37.610
do campaigning, you know, with their other, other guys in
645
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:38.130
their small group.
646
00:35:38.150 --> 00:35:40.989
That's what their nights look like. Their nights are video games.
647
00:35:41.289 --> 00:35:43.530
That's right. And here's the thing. They're not, you know,
648
00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:46.269
like I would go, I'd go to bat and say,
649
00:35:46.309 --> 00:35:48.590
most of them are not engaging in porn. They're not
650
00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:52.469
smoking marijuana. Um, you know, they're not, uh, what was
651
00:35:52.510 --> 00:35:57.150
the other one? They're not, um, um, porn gambling, video gambling.
652
00:35:57.170 --> 00:35:59.670
They're not gambling online, even though I think there's a
653
00:35:59.690 --> 00:36:02.690
possibility some of them are, uh, into the game.
654
00:36:02.769 --> 00:36:06.610
One in four, according to Brad Wilcox, one in four
655
00:36:06.989 --> 00:36:10.769
men between the ages of 18 and 29 are gambling
656
00:36:11.989 --> 00:36:16.929
every single day. Yeah. The same number, roughly a little
657
00:36:16.969 --> 00:36:20.289
more are using pornography every single day, but This blew
658
00:36:20.329 --> 00:36:20.690
my mind.
659
00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:24.030
Sixty-six percent play video games every day. So that's what
660
00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:25.800
I'm saying. The gaming one feels like it's a little–
661
00:36:25.829 --> 00:36:26.389
Who are these people?
662
00:36:26.409 --> 00:36:27.170
Who are these people?
663
00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:28.889
I played video games when I was 12 years old.
664
00:36:28.949 --> 00:36:30.420
I've not played video games since I was 12 years old.
665
00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:31.909
No, we're talking about 18 to 29-year-olds.
666
00:36:31.929 --> 00:36:35.409
That's crazy. So to me– I'd say a ton of
667
00:36:35.429 --> 00:36:39.239
40-year-olds are too. Also, we've made it to like normal.
668
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.739
Like we call it gaming. Like it's a sport or something.
669
00:36:42.510 --> 00:36:44.960
It's like, no, you're playing video games. Like you're gaming.
670
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:45.519
That's not a thing.
671
00:36:45.869 --> 00:36:47.610
It is a sport now in colleges.
672
00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:48.860
Yeah, it is a sport.
673
00:36:48.889 --> 00:36:54.360
Yeah, I refuse to acknowledge that. But I think it's, golly, man. Also,
674
00:36:54.380 --> 00:36:56.940
you've got to give a lot of these ladies a
675
00:36:56.980 --> 00:36:58.480
little bit, cut them a little bit of slack because
676
00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:00.360
they get so much like, girls aren't giving guys a
677
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.239
chance and they need to be more willing to go
678
00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:05.699
out with a friend. That's who you have to choose from?
679
00:37:06.260 --> 00:37:08.659
Okay, so let me give you my theory. Here's where
680
00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:11.429
the rubber meets the road. This is the gaming phenomena
681
00:37:11.489 --> 00:37:13.550
to me. This is where I think what's underneath it.
682
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.760
I don't think it's simply letting off steam and wanting
683
00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:18.500
to have a little fun. I'll tell you what I
684
00:37:18.539 --> 00:37:22.599
think is at the root of it. Men are built
685
00:37:22.699 --> 00:37:28.860
and hardwired by God to build things, to lead, to
686
00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:33.840
build families, to create a career, to build wealth, provide
687
00:37:33.860 --> 00:37:40.980
for their family. Build, protect, those kinds of things. Innovate, create, cultivate.
688
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:47.440
What is gaming ultimately? It is a counterfeit version of that.
689
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.329
It is a version of that that doesn't require you
690
00:37:51.369 --> 00:37:54.110
to actually get out and do anything. So whether you're
691
00:37:54.130 --> 00:37:57.750
building worlds on these world building games or whether you're
692
00:37:57.769 --> 00:38:01.070
doing military campaigns on these military or whether you are
693
00:38:01.250 --> 00:38:05.300
in legend or varsity status where you're building a dynasty
694
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:10.230
on your football team, all of it is about building worlds. legacies,
695
00:38:10.889 --> 00:38:15.139
you know, creating and innovating without actually ever doing it.
696
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:17.389
It's a substitute to that. And I think that's why
697
00:38:17.409 --> 00:38:19.840
a lot of guys get sucked into it. Because it
698
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:22.219
feels quicker than the real life thing also.
699
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.079
I put this on Twitter and a lot of people
700
00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:28.820
didn't like it. I called this a civilizational crisis.
701
00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:32.139
What was the objection?
702
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:36.199
Part of it was the gaming component. People didn't like
703
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:43.170
indicting gaming. But Reed, you're exactly right. Men are very
704
00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:47.639
productive and they will take their productivity in either a
705
00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:50.079
healthy direction or a destructive direction.
706
00:38:50.420 --> 00:38:51.679
Yeah.
707
00:38:51.800 --> 00:39:00.320
If we have a civilization where men are economically unable
708
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:02.500
to support a family, they're not going to get married.
709
00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:04.139
Okay.
710
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:05.920
So they're not going to get married. They're going to
711
00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:09.739
find sexual outlet elsewhere. There are not going to be children,
712
00:39:10.659 --> 00:39:14.159
which means you're going to have a demographic problem. Then
713
00:39:14.469 --> 00:39:17.269
if you add on to this the ubiquity of pornography,
714
00:39:18.010 --> 00:39:20.469
which I think is rising to the level of a
715
00:39:20.510 --> 00:39:21.530
public health crisis.
716
00:39:22.070 --> 00:39:24.809
And gambling, which is the same dopamine hit pornography is
717
00:39:24.849 --> 00:39:25.269
giving them.
718
00:39:26.250 --> 00:39:26.449
Right.
719
00:39:26.670 --> 00:39:29.550
Which, which, I mean, um, I know this is a
720
00:39:29.590 --> 00:39:35.960
family podcast. There are, um, neurological and physiological consequences to
721
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:41.900
prolonged pornography use that is not conducive to making oneself
722
00:39:41.980 --> 00:39:43.380
a marriable person. Yeah.
723
00:39:43.420 --> 00:39:43.579
Yeah.
724
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:49.960
And so, uh, This is all converging in a perfect
725
00:39:50.019 --> 00:39:54.440
storm to basically wipe out a generation of men who
726
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.380
should be building a civilization and instead are doing the
727
00:39:58.420 --> 00:40:02.179
exact opposite. It's civilization turning in back on itself.
728
00:40:02.510 --> 00:40:04.869
Yeah, that's right. They're all shortcuts, right?
729
00:40:05.630 --> 00:40:11.349
Pornography is a shortcut to actual fulfilling sexual relationship, intimate
730
00:40:11.369 --> 00:40:13.670
relationship with a woman. Gambling is a shortcut to wealth.
731
00:40:14.650 --> 00:40:16.489
And video games are a shortcut, I think, to a
732
00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:20.550
lot of things you pointed to, Eric. Building, cultivating, going
733
00:40:20.610 --> 00:40:24.099
on an adventure, doing something difficult, achieving something.
734
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.599
Well, and real quick, Caitlin Flanagan at The Atlantic, within
735
00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:31.980
the last 18 months, had an article about the rise
736
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.949
of pornography. And Tietzel, she talked about the shortcut mentality,
737
00:40:37.769 --> 00:40:40.570
that it used to be that our culture was telling
738
00:40:40.670 --> 00:40:43.769
men that the chase was is a part of the
739
00:40:43.829 --> 00:40:47.610
experience of being a male, that you're supposed to court
740
00:40:47.670 --> 00:40:50.570
the female, that if you want to be romantic with
741
00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:52.679
the female, you actually have to earn it, you have
742
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.170
to do the hard work, you have to provide for her.
743
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:58.820
And now we have bypassed all of that in the
744
00:40:58.860 --> 00:41:03.239
form of pornography, and we've bypassed the formative experiences of
745
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:10.300
hard work on the Faustian bargain myth that if I
746
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.070
just keep gambling enough, at some point, I'm finally going
747
00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:18.210
to win. And we all know the gambling algorithms in
748
00:41:18.230 --> 00:41:23.239
the long run are all against the user, right?
749
00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:24.800
Yeah, 100%.
750
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:26.900
And so many of these dudes, these video game guys,
751
00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:31.320
they probably punt and madden. So that's what we're dealing
752
00:41:31.340 --> 00:41:31.619
with here.
753
00:41:31.940 --> 00:41:33.039
I appreciate that, Dean.
754
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:34.860
And I think it's important that we not just be
755
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.960
a bunch of old guys berating younger guys.
756
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.760
That's the oldest tale in the book. These are big problems.
757
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:44.079
The The question is, what are we going to do
758
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:44.500
about it?
759
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:48.420
And I think we've talked about.
760
00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:50.440
On this podcast before, there are a lot of voices
761
00:41:50.539 --> 00:41:53.909
out there who are speaking to this exact demographic.
762
00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:57.090
And some of them are very destructive.
763
00:41:57.110 --> 00:42:02.519
The Andrew Tate voices, other non-Christian voices who are taking guys.
764
00:42:02.260 --> 00:42:04.760
Who are clearly lost. They have no.
765
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.139
meaningful role model in their life. Who's given them a
766
00:42:08.179 --> 00:42:10.880
pathway to what it is that their heart's desire is
767
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:15.260
actually looking for. Um, and so they're going to, to,
768
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.789
to carnival barkers who will take advantage of them and
769
00:42:17.829 --> 00:42:18.769
lead them further.
770
00:42:18.489 --> 00:42:20.130
Down a path of destruction.
771
00:42:20.150 --> 00:42:23.829
Or maybe there's a somewhat more fruitful version of this
772
00:42:23.909 --> 00:42:29.570
that says, um, discipline yourself so that you can live
773
00:42:29.590 --> 00:42:32.619
a certain kind of hedonistic lifestyle for real.
774
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:34.340
Take it out of the video game world.
775
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.150
Um, Wake up at 4 a.m., hit the gym for
776
00:42:38.170 --> 00:42:41.190
the first time that day. By the time your competitors
777
00:42:41.230 --> 00:42:43.130
have woken up, you've already got half a day of
778
00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:43.929
work in.
779
00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:52.710
That's sort of like buy a Rolex, get a fancy car, sell, sell, sell,
780
00:42:53.309 --> 00:42:55.989
burn out. That's meaningless too, right?
781
00:42:56.219 --> 00:42:58.260
But that's out there, and at least they're not in
782
00:42:58.280 --> 00:42:59.760
their mother's basement at that point.
783
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:06.469
But it's still a distraction. What they need is– gospel.
784
00:43:06.530 --> 00:43:08.289
They need a vision for the kind of life that
785
00:43:08.349 --> 00:43:12.349
Eric laid out, a Genesis 2 life that says, I
786
00:43:12.409 --> 00:43:14.849
made you, I made a compliment for you.
787
00:43:14.869 --> 00:43:17.809
It's really good that she exists.
788
00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:21.690
And you two together have some tasks to fulfill on
789
00:43:21.750 --> 00:43:24.389
this earth that I have made you for. I want
790
00:43:24.429 --> 00:43:27.380
you to co-create with me together with your partner. That's
791
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:31.239
the biblical vision of a life well-lived. And It's our
792
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.920
responsibility to share that message with young men. They're thirsty
793
00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:36.840
for it. Somebody's got to get out there and do it.
794
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:38.530
I know he's berated these days.
795
00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:39.389
I just noticed today.
796
00:43:39.570 --> 00:43:41.050
I still have this book on my shelf.
797
00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:44.889
I was getting mocked for this in college, but when
798
00:43:44.929 --> 00:43:47.449
John Eldridge wrote Wild and Bark back.
799
00:43:47.329 --> 00:43:50.090
In the day, this book spoke to me.
800
00:43:50.289 --> 00:43:51.969
I think I was 19 when I read this for
801
00:43:52.010 --> 00:43:54.409
the first time, and I needed to.
802
00:43:54.610 --> 00:43:55.190
I don't know.
803
00:43:55.989 --> 00:43:57.610
I don't know who those guys are today, but I
804
00:43:57.650 --> 00:44:00.639
think we need somebody who can reach the generation with
805
00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:01.699
this kind of a message again.
806
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.599
Yeah, no one's saying that it's bad if you're a
807
00:44:03.619 --> 00:44:05.920
dad and you play Madden at night or MLB the
808
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:08.599
show with your kid or on a Saturday. We're talking
809
00:44:08.619 --> 00:44:10.030
about the lifestyle of it, right?
810
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:10.739
Yeah, yeah.
811
00:44:10.989 --> 00:44:12.550
And what's happening when you see when a guy who
812
00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:15.409
just puts his headphones on and is talking to somebody
813
00:44:15.489 --> 00:44:19.030
not in person. about Fortnite for seven hours a day.
814
00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:24.809
Or just video games is what they do. I think
815
00:44:24.849 --> 00:44:26.650
it's troubling. Outside of just a fun random thing, it
816
00:44:26.690 --> 00:44:30.250
becomes the hobby. When you're an adult, I just worry
817
00:44:30.269 --> 00:44:32.250
about that. And then you're going to have kids that
818
00:44:32.269 --> 00:44:34.409
take it to a whole other level. And all they're
819
00:44:34.429 --> 00:44:35.610
ever going to do is be in front of screens
820
00:44:35.650 --> 00:44:36.170
and video games.
821
00:44:37.170 --> 00:44:40.320
Sounds like every accusation is a confession, Dean.
822
00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:42.760
Bro, I have not played games since I was 12
823
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:44.360
years old. So, yeah.
824
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:47.179
I think that... To Tietzel's question, you know, what are
825
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:48.980
we going to do about it? I think we do
826
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.989
need to, this is where we're plugging into your local church,
827
00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:57.050
investing in, you know, your students, your teenagers, being involved
828
00:44:57.090 --> 00:44:59.849
with other young adult men, you know, college age kids.
829
00:45:00.590 --> 00:45:02.849
We got to be having these conversations. We got to
830
00:45:02.889 --> 00:45:06.170
talk about these things. I'm reminded of Proverbs 25, 28.
831
00:45:06.170 --> 00:45:08.230
I want to read this to you guys. A man
832
00:45:08.309 --> 00:45:11.670
without self-control is like a city broken into and left
833
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:22.769
without walls. You think about these vices, the gaming addiction, marijuana, gambling, pornography.
834
00:45:23.429 --> 00:45:27.909
These are all vices that cause men to lose their
835
00:45:27.929 --> 00:45:31.489
lack of self-control and being able to control your passions
836
00:45:31.570 --> 00:45:34.780
and rule yourself. And the result of that, he compares
837
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:36.980
it in the ancient world, a city broken into and
838
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:41.559
left without walls is a city vulnerable to destruction. They
839
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:45.369
are vulnerable to being sacked having everything that they care
840
00:45:45.409 --> 00:45:48.829
about taken and that's what the proverb the solomon says
841
00:45:49.210 --> 00:45:52.610
that's the man without self-control he's vulnerable to destruction he's
842
00:45:52.750 --> 00:45:56.190
he's he's going to be destroyed from within and so
843
00:45:56.329 --> 00:45:59.110
i think it matters not to be curmudgeons and be
844
00:45:59.139 --> 00:46:02.360
like these guys doing this stuff if we actually care
845
00:46:02.380 --> 00:46:05.420
and love people we need to show them there's a
846
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.219
better way that there's actually a way that leads to
847
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:10.739
life and flourishing and that the path their own leads
848
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:13.219
to destruction and that's the truth we just have to
849
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:13.800
show them that.
850
00:46:15.949 --> 00:46:17.610
That's well said. Yeah. I'm going to be a little
851
00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:21.590
curmudgeon though about it. Just FYI. You're allowed. You're allowed.
852
00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:25.250
Let's move into everybody's favorite part of the podcast. What
853
00:46:25.329 --> 00:46:28.429
caught my eye? Let's start with the mayor.
854
00:46:28.449 --> 00:46:32.150
Hey guys. So you mentioned Ryan Burge earlier. I got
855
00:46:32.190 --> 00:46:36.329
another poll from him. I actually enjoy his stuff. So
856
00:46:36.349 --> 00:46:38.210
a couple of things, what caught my eye were two
857
00:46:38.250 --> 00:46:41.849
things in this. Among Catholic priests who were ordained prior
858
00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:50.550
to 1975. 14% are politically conservative. 61% are politically liberal.
859
00:46:51.869 --> 00:46:55.429
It's like, whoa, okay. Among Catholic priests who were ordained
860
00:46:55.530 --> 00:47:02.510
in 2010 or later, 51% politically conservative, 12% politically liberal.
861
00:47:03.190 --> 00:47:06.409
I mean, that is legitimately a vibe shift. And I
862
00:47:06.429 --> 00:47:08.409
know we've kind of used that tongue-in-cheek, but that really
863
00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:10.989
is a vibe shift in the Catholic Church, and it's
864
00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:12.039
really kind of cool to see.
865
00:47:12.699 --> 00:47:12.880
Yeah.
866
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:18.179
Yeah, over the last 20 years in North America, the
867
00:47:18.219 --> 00:47:22.989
priesthood has generally gotten more conservative. And I think that's
868
00:47:23.070 --> 00:47:28.530
kind of the effect of JP II and then Ratzinger,
869
00:47:28.650 --> 00:47:33.289
or I guess Benedict XVI, who are very conservative. The
870
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.820
question is what's going to happen with those who are
871
00:47:37.219 --> 00:47:42.159
ordained under Pope Francis, to put it mildly. is not
872
00:47:42.260 --> 00:47:42.960
cut from the cloth.
873
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:45.760
Yeah, reverse five shift.
874
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:48.880
Reverse five shift. But no, that is a fascinating statistic.
875
00:47:49.219 --> 00:47:50.199
Yeah.
876
00:47:50.219 --> 00:47:56.760
Tinsel, what about you? What caught your eye?
877
00:47:56.969 --> 00:47:59.070
I'm tempted to talk about fantasy football here, but since
878
00:47:59.090 --> 00:48:03.130
we just talked about young men wasting their time, I'll
879
00:48:03.489 --> 00:48:03.869
can that.
880
00:48:06.269 --> 00:48:09.440
Woke one is over. I don't know if you all heard.
881
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:11.530
The news broke. I heard.
882
00:48:13.179 --> 00:48:16.730
Yeah, the New York Times has deemed it. And even
883
00:48:16.989 --> 00:48:20.989
characters like AOC are saying, as she recently said, something
884
00:48:21.010 --> 00:48:23.769
to the effect of, yeah, Woke One was kind of crazy.
885
00:48:24.750 --> 00:48:29.210
And it's enough to cause people like me to go,
886
00:48:29.590 --> 00:48:30.590
I'm sorry, what?
887
00:48:33.409 --> 00:48:34.909
It's like the meme, are we the baddies?
888
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:39.639
Wait, let's just pretend like we weren't just out here
889
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:44.539
calling for the abolishment of all police and prisons and
890
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.820
closing down schools and demanding that you put a cloth
891
00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:50.480
on your face to go out in public and saying
892
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:53.289
that all white people need to apologize.
893
00:48:52.659 --> 00:48:56.260
For the color of their skin all the time. She's
894
00:48:56.300 --> 00:48:59.320
just getting a whole refresh on the brand, man. That
895
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:00.489
was kind of crazy.
896
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:03.730
She's calling for like a big like, whoopsie, let's just
897
00:49:03.789 --> 00:49:04.590
redo that over.
898
00:49:04.829 --> 00:49:09.650
Literally, it's like, cut, can we take another? And they're
899
00:49:09.690 --> 00:49:12.130
trying to move past this. I think it opens all
900
00:49:12.190 --> 00:49:17.170
kinds of questions about, one, what was that? If it's true, like,
901
00:49:17.650 --> 00:49:19.980
was this just the madness of crowds playing out?
902
00:49:20.019 --> 00:49:22.179
Out over a 10 year period?
903
00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:29.059
Or is this political posturing recognizing the fruit of leading
904
00:49:29.179 --> 00:49:33.730
with what you actually think, like cutting the testicles off
905
00:49:33.849 --> 00:49:38.550
of five year old boys because they think they're a girl? Um, oh,
906
00:49:38.659 --> 00:49:41.150
society didn't like that. We should put that back in the,
907
00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:43.889
put that back in the binder, pull it out, uh,
908
00:49:43.929 --> 00:49:46.610
maybe later when people are ready for it. I am
909
00:49:47.369 --> 00:49:51.389
very skeptical that this represents any, anything meaningful other than, um,
910
00:49:52.070 --> 00:49:55.630
a public narrative. I think that all of this stuff
911
00:49:55.690 --> 00:49:58.650
springs from an actual belief system that is there, that
912
00:49:58.750 --> 00:50:01.969
is real. Um, To the extent it can be real,
913
00:50:01.989 --> 00:50:05.570
it's not rooted in anything other than everything the opposite
914
00:50:05.590 --> 00:50:10.710
of the Bible teaches. It's a rebellion against the created order.
915
00:50:11.530 --> 00:50:13.769
But nevertheless, there is a created order, and if you
916
00:50:13.829 --> 00:50:15.750
hate God and you hate His order, this is the
917
00:50:15.789 --> 00:50:16.730
direction you're going to go.
918
00:50:16.789 --> 00:50:18.110
And a lot of these people still do.
919
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:22.559
So I'm not buying the narrative shift or the apologies,
920
00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:24.500
or to the extent they are apologies.
921
00:50:26.139 --> 00:50:28.179
I'm going to remain very skeptical.
922
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.079
Reid, what caught your eye?
923
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:35.119
Man, what's caught my eye is the state of college athletics.
924
00:50:35.260 --> 00:50:39.420
It is the wild, wild west. You have got NFL
925
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:44.489
roster players who are now leaving the NFL and going
926
00:50:44.820 --> 00:50:52.269
back to college. Wait, what? Claiming eligibility and signing with schools.
927
00:50:52.989 --> 00:50:53.630
Lane Kiffin.
928
00:50:53.650 --> 00:50:54.789
Court allowed.
929
00:50:55.389 --> 00:51:01.119
Yeah. Lane Kiffin, Dean's buddy, is a big part of this. But, yeah,
930
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:04.210
college athletics right now, guys, the last, I don't know,
931
00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:08.349
four or five years with NIL stuff being allowed, the
932
00:51:08.389 --> 00:51:10.449
players getting to cash in on their image and likeness,
933
00:51:11.230 --> 00:51:15.110
it's chaos. It's chaos. And I don't know how they
934
00:51:15.150 --> 00:51:17.090
rein it in. I don't know how they rein it in.
935
00:51:17.670 --> 00:51:22.269
Something's got to happen. There's no rules anymore. They're literally
936
00:51:22.309 --> 00:51:25.110
making it up every day. And now we've got NFL
937
00:51:25.179 --> 00:51:28.719
professional football players going back to play college ball. It's insane.
938
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.900
So somebody do something. We need an executive order from
939
00:51:31.940 --> 00:51:38.119
President Trump. Sports czar. I hereby volunteer as tribute. Andrew,
940
00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:39.500
what about you?
941
00:51:40.179 --> 00:51:43.590
All right, gentlemen. We need to revisit something that I
942
00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:48.550
disclosed in the previous episode. And Tietzel actually called me
943
00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:53.230
later last week to kind of do an intervention because
944
00:51:53.250 --> 00:51:56.519
he said, have you actually watched The Field of Dreams yet?
945
00:51:57.099 --> 00:51:58.739
Oh, did we fix it?
946
00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:02.139
Okay, I finished it. I finished it.
947
00:52:02.619 --> 00:52:02.920
Oh, no.
948
00:52:03.579 --> 00:52:04.440
This does not feel good.
949
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:08.659
I know.
950
00:52:09.179 --> 00:52:10.059
What is wrong with you?
951
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:14.619
Who heard the music, Terrence Mann? Hold on.
952
00:52:14.829 --> 00:52:19.309
Hold on. Let me explain myself, all right? I had
953
00:52:20.329 --> 00:52:26.210
epic hopes for this. It's just kind of a bizarre,
954
00:52:26.309 --> 00:52:29.190
obviously it's a bizarre movie. A dude builds up. the
955
00:52:29.250 --> 00:52:30.320
baseball field in a corner.
956
00:52:30.340 --> 00:52:33.199
You have to suspend belief, Andrew. He hears a voice.
957
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:34.739
You got to go with it, bro.
958
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.880
But it was so jumpy from one thing to the next.
959
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:42.949
And then he goes to Boston to meet James. What's
960
00:52:42.989 --> 00:52:43.309
his name?
961
00:52:44.230 --> 00:52:46.349
James Earl Jones, who played James Earl Jones.
962
00:52:46.369 --> 00:52:46.550
Yeah.
963
00:52:46.869 --> 00:52:49.090
The character of Terrence Mann, the writer.
964
00:52:49.190 --> 00:52:52.550
And it, Yeah, oh wow, you really remembered his name.
965
00:52:52.570 --> 00:52:56.110
Andrew, everyone knows this. It's like the greatest sports movie
966
00:52:56.210 --> 00:52:58.829
ever made. Your problem, let me tell you what your
967
00:52:58.869 --> 00:52:59.570
problem is.
968
00:52:59.590 --> 00:53:00.670
Yes, get it, Tate, go.
969
00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:05.250
How many times did you sit down and start and
970
00:53:05.289 --> 00:53:06.170
stop this movie?
971
00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:07.329
Tell the audience.
972
00:53:07.969 --> 00:53:09.090
Oh, probably four or five times.
973
00:53:09.869 --> 00:53:11.090
Oh my gosh.
974
00:53:11.510 --> 00:53:15.449
We went all the way through. My brother's anti because
975
00:53:15.510 --> 00:53:18.309
it doesn't depict Shoeless Joe Jackson properly. Like he hits
976
00:53:18.369 --> 00:53:19.349
the wrong side of the plate.
977
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:26.010
I do have somewhat of an explanation this movie came
978
00:53:26.070 --> 00:53:29.630
out I think in 1989 and I think my mistake
979
00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:32.349
and I'm going to own my mistake my mistake is
980
00:53:32.369 --> 00:53:34.489
that I did not watch this when I was younger
981
00:53:34.510 --> 00:53:36.769
because if I had watched it when I was younger
982
00:53:37.010 --> 00:53:41.409
it would have kind of ingrained itself into my head
983
00:53:42.070 --> 00:53:45.909
as like one of those movies of my childhood and
984
00:53:45.929 --> 00:53:48.429
because I watched it as a 40 year old instead
985
00:53:48.449 --> 00:53:51.469
of like a six-year-old or a 10-year-old, it just doesn't
986
00:53:51.510 --> 00:53:54.050
have the nostalgic connection.
987
00:53:54.349 --> 00:53:57.130
It's still wrong. It's still a wrong take, Andrew. So
988
00:53:57.329 --> 00:53:57.909
here's the thing.
989
00:53:57.929 --> 00:53:59.769
Moonlight Graham.
990
00:54:00.010 --> 00:54:03.699
For all of that brain of yours, I'm just shocked
991
00:54:04.010 --> 00:54:08.539
at how pitiful your artistic tastes are. Listen, here's the
992
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:11.659
thing you have to think about. The story is not
993
00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:17.090
about baseball. Baseball is the rapper, man. The story is
994
00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:20.889
about a guy who resents his dad. He resents his dad.
995
00:54:20.909 --> 00:54:23.489
He feels like his dad mailed it in. And he
996
00:54:23.510 --> 00:54:26.389
feels like his dad didn't pursue his dreams. And he
997
00:54:26.429 --> 00:54:29.750
feels like his dad was disconnected from him. And he
998
00:54:30.269 --> 00:54:32.349
doesn't want to be his dad. And he feels like
999
00:54:32.389 --> 00:54:34.230
he's mailing it in. And he's at the age where
1000
00:54:34.250 --> 00:54:37.099
his dad was. So he's going to step out. And
1001
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:39.420
he's going to do something. And what happens along the way?
1002
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:43.099
He gets a chance to have this unbelievable experience where, yeah,
1003
00:54:43.139 --> 00:54:45.179
these dead baseball players show up, but who does he
1004
00:54:45.219 --> 00:54:47.989
get to have a catch with and bridge the gap
1005
00:54:48.030 --> 00:54:52.090
with and reconcile with and come to actually understand? He
1006
00:54:52.150 --> 00:54:56.530
comes to understand his dad. And we're not even sure how.
1007
00:54:56.659 --> 00:54:59.079
He just shows up and they play catch. To Andrew's defense,
1008
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:00.559
it's a really crappy plot line.
1009
00:55:00.860 --> 00:55:02.199
No, it's a picture of a new heaven and a
1010
00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:02.500
new earth.
1011
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:04.300
It's nostalgic and it's magical. It's nostalgic and it's magical.
1012
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:06.019
It's a picture of a new heavens and new earth.
1013
00:55:06.099 --> 00:55:06.719
It's a picture.
1014
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:08.179
Good gracious. Wow.
1015
00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:11.539
Listen, that's... That's like how can we find the gospel
1016
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:12.480
in Taylor Swift level?
1017
00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:15.880
No, it's not. Listen, dead serious. You know why it
1018
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:17.820
made me tear up? I love it. You know why
1019
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:20.489
it made me tear up? He got to have a
1020
00:55:20.530 --> 00:55:25.610
game of catch with his dad who's gone, and all
1021
00:55:25.670 --> 00:55:29.530
things are put right. I think about having a catch
1022
00:55:29.570 --> 00:55:32.360
with my son in a future reality that's coming.
1023
00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:34.800
Now you made me feel terrible.
1024
00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:35.659
You did that to us.
1025
00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:39.579
You should feel terrible. That's what it's doing, though. That's
1026
00:55:39.619 --> 00:55:44.340
the point. That's what it's doing. It connects emotionally with
1027
00:55:44.380 --> 00:55:44.860
these things.
1028
00:55:46.619 --> 00:55:48.440
It could be better produced.
1029
00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:52.280
Andrew, you're not allowed to give any more. Your artistic
1030
00:55:52.340 --> 00:55:54.719
takes are no longer wanted here.
1031
00:55:54.860 --> 00:55:58.179
Every month, we should ask Andrew to watch just a
1032
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:02.179
universally acclaimed, beloved American film.
1033
00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:04.699
He's like, I don't know, man. I don't know if
1034
00:56:04.739 --> 00:56:07.570
I like The Godfather. The Italian meatballs didn't look as
1035
00:56:07.769 --> 00:56:09.210
tasty as I thought they would.
1036
00:56:09.309 --> 00:56:11.250
My favorite all-time sports movie is Bull Durham.
1037
00:56:11.989 --> 00:56:13.679
I love that one, too. Love that one, too.
1038
00:56:13.690 --> 00:56:14.219
I haven't seen it.
1039
00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:16.610
Sorry. Not thought appropriate.
1040
00:56:17.769 --> 00:56:21.360
All right. Well, on that note, before this gets violent,
1041
00:56:21.380 --> 00:56:24.190
we should probably wrap this podcast up. We want to
1042
00:56:24.230 --> 00:56:27.449
thank everybody for listening and for tuning in despite my
1043
00:56:27.550 --> 00:56:29.389
horribly lame cultural takes.
1044
00:56:29.409 --> 00:56:30.710
Thanks for owning it.
1045
00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:34.389
That's not why you're here. You're here for good gospel
1046
00:56:34.429 --> 00:56:38.989
conversations and good reflections on conservative politics. But if you would,
1047
00:56:39.210 --> 00:56:41.469
share an episode with a friend. Leave us a rating
1048
00:56:41.489 --> 00:56:44.659
and review. And remember always, if men were angels, no
1049
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:46.239
podcast would be necessary.
1050
00:56:46.420 --> 00:56:47.079
Love you, Iowa.
1051
00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:50.739
If you build it, he'll come. With all the heart.