Crime Meets the Paranormal with Kennedy Cole

WEBVTT
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript <www.descript.com>
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.429
Kennedy Cole: They<00:00:00.170> want<00:00:00.399> us<00:00:00.569> to<00:00:00.719> think
<00:00:01.059>that<00:00:01.239> we're<00:00:01.409> the<00:00:01.549> only<00:00:01.789> people<00:00:02.299> who
00:00:02.430 --> 00:00:04.699
are<00:00:02.569> feeling<00:00:03.699> the<00:00:03.809> way<00:00:04.019> that<00:00:04.149> we<00:00:04.319> do.
00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:07.229
They<00:00:04.849> want<00:00:05.039> us<00:00:05.279> to<00:00:06.419> feel<00:00:06.719> afraid.
00:00:07.250 --> 00:00:09.939
They<00:00:07.359> want<00:00:07.559> us<00:00:07.719> to<00:00:07.939> be<00:00:08.109> quiet<00:00:08.559> and<00:00:08.969> stop<00:00:09.309> looking.
00:00:10.610 --> 00:00:15.119
And<00:00:11.989> a<00:00:12.259> great<00:00:12.639> way<00:00:12.799> to<00:00:12.879> do<00:00:13.019> that<00:00:13.189> is<00:00:13.369> to
<00:00:13.459>make<00:00:13.659> us<00:00:13.759> feel<00:00:14.029> othered,<00:00:14.479> like<00:00:14.759> we're<00:00:15.019> in
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.429
the<00:00:15.209> minority,<00:00:15.879> like<00:00:16.149> we're<00:00:16.379> the<00:00:16.519> only
<00:00:16.779>ones<00:00:18.059> feeling<00:00:18.479> the<00:00:18.579> way<00:00:18.739> that<00:00:18.849> we<00:00:18.989> do.
00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:23.410
As<00:00:20.119> these<00:00:21.179> things<00:00:21.499> happen<00:00:21.839> in
<00:00:21.929>the<00:00:22.029> world,<00:00:22.489> we<00:00:22.780> need<00:00:23.000> to<00:00:23.100> remind
00:00:23.410 --> 00:00:27.070
ourselves<00:00:23.949> that<00:00:25.059> we<00:00:25.530> are<00:00:26.259> not<00:00:26.640> other.
00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:33.000
We<00:00:27.460> all<00:00:27.660> exist<00:00:28.019> as<00:00:28.159> one<00:00:28.390> body,<00:00:29.290> and<00:00:30.050> this
<00:00:30.230>is<00:00:30.370> something<00:00:30.740> that<00:00:32.130> we<00:00:32.420> need<00:00:32.580> to<00:00:32.780> pay
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:35.670
attention<00:00:33.470> to<00:00:33.770> and<00:00:34.610> stand<00:00:34.910> up<00:00:35.090> for.
00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:44.440
I<00:00:36.840> think<00:00:37.920> a<00:00:38.020> lot<00:00:38.340> of<00:00:38.880> that<00:00:40.420> othering<00:00:40.910> that
<00:00:41.100>happens<00:00:41.780> is<00:00:42.180> to<00:00:43.160> keep<00:00:43.440> us<00:00:43.660> controlled.
00:00:45.170 --> 00:00:49.529
And,<00:00:45.770> when<00:00:45.930> you<00:00:46.070> understand<00:00:46.769> that,
<00:00:47.269>it's<00:00:47.489> a<00:00:47.560> lot<00:00:47.850> easier<00:00:48.390> to<00:00:49.279> also
00:00:49.529 --> 00:00:52.559
understand<00:00:50.039> that<00:00:50.199> that<00:00:51.729> isn't<00:00:52.119> true.
00:00:54.009 --> 00:00:55.539
Welcome<00:00:54.399> to<00:00:54.519> Talk<00:00:54.729> Your<00:00:54.839> Lit<00:00:55.009> Podcast.
00:00:55.579 --> 00:00:57.619
I'm<00:00:55.759> your<00:00:55.889> host,<00:00:56.099> Nailah,<00:00:56.559> and
<00:00:56.669>I'm<00:00:56.779> so<00:00:56.949> glad<00:00:57.169> you're<00:00:57.249> here.
00:00:58.049 --> 00:01:01.749
Get<00:00:58.309> ready<00:00:58.539> for<00:00:58.649> another<00:00:58.939> episode<00:00:59.309> of<00:00:59.369> the<00:00:59.469> show
<00:00:59.809>where<00:00:59.989> we<00:01:00.109> discuss<00:01:00.569> dark<00:01:00.779> fiction,<00:01:01.209> including
00:01:01.769 --> 00:01:05.759
horror,<00:01:02.499> thriller,<00:01:03.109> and<00:01:03.269> crime,<00:01:03.949> featuring
<00:01:04.399>BIPOC<00:01:04.429> creatives<00:01:05.189> and<00:01:05.289> writers<00:01:05.639> through
00:01:05.839 --> 00:01:07.459
interviews<00:01:06.359> and<00:01:06.509> roundtable<00:01:06.939> discussions.
00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.109
Before<00:01:08.209> we<00:01:08.339> get<00:01:08.489> into<00:01:08.759> it,<00:01:08.959> please<00:01:09.169> share,
<00:01:09.659>subscribe,<00:01:10.239> rate,<00:01:10.599> and<00:01:10.739> leave<00:01:10.899> a<00:01:10.959> review.
00:01:11.679 --> 00:01:14.679
Your<00:01:11.879> support<00:01:12.249> helps<00:01:12.469> the<00:01:12.569> show<00:01:12.819> reach
<00:01:13.089>even<00:01:13.349> more<00:01:13.499> ghouls<00:01:13.749> next<00:01:13.939> door<00:01:14.249> like<00:01:14.459> you.
00:01:14.989 --> 00:01:16.919
Now<00:01:15.119> let's<00:01:15.409> dive<00:01:15.679> into<00:01:16.139> today's<00:01:16.469> episode.
00:01:21.273 --> 00:01:23.993
Get<00:01:21.473> spine-chilling<00:01:22.123> horror<00:01:22.553> and
<00:01:22.753>pulse-pounding<00:01:23.453> thriller<00:01:23.773> book
00:01:23.993 --> 00:01:26.003
recommendations<00:01:24.903> by<00:01:25.223> us<00:01:25.443> and<00:01:25.613> for<00:01:25.833> us.
00:01:26.683 --> 00:01:29.983
Each<00:01:26.953> month,<00:01:27.183> I<00:01:27.273> break<00:01:27.523> down<00:01:27.753> the
<00:01:27.933>upcoming<00:01:28.523> new<00:01:28.933> dark<00:01:29.273> fiction<00:01:29.783> book
00:01:29.983 --> 00:01:31.463
releases<00:01:30.473> from<00:01:30.653> BIPOC<00:01:31.063> authors.
00:01:32.393 --> 00:01:36.773
Head<00:01:32.603> over<00:01:32.903> to<00:01:33.083> nighttidemag.com<00:01:34.773> to<00:01:34.923> see
<00:01:35.163>what<00:01:35.323> books<00:01:35.593> you<00:01:35.683> need<00:01:35.863> to<00:01:35.943> add<00:01:36.153> to<00:01:36.253> your<00:01:36.373> shelf
00:01:38.639 --> 00:01:41.129
Nailah King: Welcome<00:01:38.999> to<00:01:39.159> another
<00:01:39.489>episode<00:01:39.869> of<00:01:40.029> Talk<00:01:40.289> Your<00:01:40.399> Lit<00:01:40.579> podcast,
00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:44.649
the<00:01:41.269> show<00:01:41.609> about<00:01:41.869> dark<00:01:42.069> fiction<00:01:42.509> by<00:01:42.659> BIPOC
<00:01:42.669>creatives<00:01:43.579> for<00:01:43.699> the<00:01:43.789> ghouls<00:01:44.079> next<00:01:44.269> door.
00:01:44.919 --> 00:01:47.149
Kennedy<00:01:45.259> Cole<00:01:45.719> is<00:01:46.019> joining<00:01:46.279> the<00:01:46.359> show<00:01:46.599> today.
00:01:47.759 --> 00:01:47.839
Yay.
00:01:48.059 --> 00:01:51.929
Kennedy<00:01:48.409> Cole<00:01:48.749> is<00:01:48.939> a<00:01:49.099> speculative<00:01:49.729> author
<00:01:50.119>born<00:01:50.489> and<00:01:50.669> raised<00:01:50.969> in<00:01:51.099> North<00:01:51.269> Carolina.
00:01:52.189 --> 00:01:55.449
Her<00:01:52.369> creative<00:01:52.789> portfolio<00:01:53.379> includes
<00:01:53.909>internships<00:01:54.509> with<00:01:54.639> Blair<00:01:54.819> Publisher,
00:01:55.499 --> 00:01:59.509
Only<00:01:55.749> Poems,<00:01:56.249> Lookout<00:01:56.619> Books,<00:01:56.919> and<00:01:57.219> History
<00:01:57.759>Through<00:01:57.859> Fiction,<00:01:58.299> as<00:01:58.489> well<00:01:58.759> as<00:01:58.939> an<00:01:59.099> array<00:01:59.429> of
00:01:59.509 --> 00:02:01.799
published<00:01:59.879> poetry,<00:02:00.619> fiction,<00:02:01.019> and<00:02:01.189> nonfiction.
00:02:02.009 --> 00:02:04.669
Her<00:02:02.139> debut<00:02:02.479> horror<00:02:02.739> novel,<00:02:03.259> There
<00:02:03.389>Used<00:02:03.649> to<00:02:03.739> be<00:02:03.849> People<00:02:04.169> Here,<00:02:04.379> will<00:02:04.529> be
00:02:04.679 --> 00:02:08.129
published<00:02:05.039> with<00:02:05.159> Berkeley<00:02:05.609> at<00:02:05.769> Penguin
<00:02:06.119>Random<00:02:06.389> House<00:02:06.959> in<00:02:07.109> November<00:02:07.459> 2026.
00:02:08.669 --> 00:02:09.429
Welcome<00:02:09.049> to<00:02:09.199> the<00:02:09.309> show.
00:02:10.299 --> 00:02:11.689
Kennedy Cole: Thank<00:02:10.539> you<00:02:10.629> for<00:02:10.809> having<00:02:11.239> me.
00:02:12.489 --> 00:02:13.709
Nailah King: I'm<00:02:12.609> excited.
00:02:13.939 --> 00:02:14.159
Um-
00:02:14.239 --> 00:02:14.789
Kennedy Cole: Me<00:02:14.259> too<00:02:14.739> ... I<00:02:14.749> just
00:02:15.229 --> 00:02:17.099
Nailah King: finished<00:02:15.629> Kennedy's
<00:02:16.039>book<00:02:16.429> a<00:02:16.499> couple<00:02:16.689> days<00:02:16.909> ago.
00:02:17.099 --> 00:02:18.099
It<00:02:17.119> was<00:02:17.199> amazing.
00:02:18.149 --> 00:02:19.129
Instant<00:02:18.519> five<00:02:18.739> stars.
00:02:19.429 --> 00:02:19.759
Kennedy Cole: Aw.
00:02:21.049 --> 00:02:23.659
Nailah King: How<00:02:21.189> the<00:02:21.289> show<00:02:21.459> works
<00:02:21.729>is<00:02:21.889> I<00:02:22.059> ask<00:02:22.359> you<00:02:22.649> a<00:02:22.739> few<00:02:23.119> icebreaker
00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:25.579
questions<00:02:24.329> before<00:02:24.529> we<00:02:24.659> get<00:02:24.849> into<00:02:25.109> things.
00:02:25.839 --> 00:02:29.369
So<00:02:26.029> I<00:02:26.249> would<00:02:26.399> like<00:02:26.569> to<00:02:26.699> know,<00:02:27.239> as
<00:02:27.419>the<00:02:27.509> nosy<00:02:27.849> Rosie<00:02:28.149> that<00:02:28.309> I<00:02:28.369> am,<00:02:29.069> what
00:02:29.409 --> 00:02:30.849
was<00:02:29.659> your<00:02:29.909> gateway<00:02:30.279> into<00:02:30.459> horror?
00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:33.619
Kennedy Cole: Mm.<00:02:32.719> Great<00:02:32.939> question.
00:02:34.069 --> 00:02:39.219
Now,<00:02:34.769> there's,<00:02:35.059> two<00:02:35.299> answers<00:02:35.699> to<00:02:35.819> that,
<00:02:36.209>'cause<00:02:36.629> with<00:02:37.219> horror<00:02:37.759> books,<00:02:38.509> it<00:02:38.669> was<00:02:38.919> really
00:02:39.219 --> 00:02:43.189
this<00:02:39.479> book<00:02:39.679> that<00:02:39.829> got<00:02:40.019> me<00:02:40.129> into<00:02:40.369> horror,
<00:02:41.419>but<00:02:41.589> I've<00:02:41.769> always<00:02:42.179> liked<00:02:42.409> horror<00:02:42.709> movies.
00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:48.669
Not<00:02:43.389> so<00:02:43.479> much<00:02:43.679> anymore,<00:02:44.189> but<00:02:44.769> for<00:02:45.029> me,<00:02:45.529> I
<00:02:45.699>think,<00:02:47.209> ugh,<00:02:47.479> I<00:02:47.619> don't<00:02:47.849> like<00:02:47.999> Stephen<00:02:48.279> King,
00:02:48.679 --> 00:02:53.839
but<00:02:48.839> the<00:02:48.929> movie<00:02:49.499> It,<00:02:50.049> the<00:02:50.169> 2017<00:02:50.849> version,
<00:02:51.239>was,<00:02:51.489> kinda,<00:02:51.799> the<00:02:52.639> ignition<00:02:53.239> for<00:02:53.499> young
00:02:53.839 --> 00:02:55.669
Kennedy<00:02:54.559> really<00:02:54.879> getting<00:02:55.099> into<00:02:55.289> horror.
00:02:56.789 --> 00:02:57.629
Nailah King: I<00:02:56.949> love<00:02:57.329> that.
00:02:57.669 --> 00:03:00.939
I<00:02:57.889> watched<00:02:58.199> the<00:02:58.389> '90s<00:02:59.009> version
<00:02:59.559>and<00:02:59.839> was<00:02:59.989> traumatized<00:03:00.599> forever.
00:03:01.969 --> 00:03:02.799
Kennedy Cole: Yeah,<00:03:02.309> I<00:03:02.359> don't<00:03:02.539> blame<00:03:02.779> you.
00:03:03.629 --> 00:03:03.969
Nailah King: Yeah.
00:03:04.069 --> 00:03:05.739
Anyway,<00:03:04.489> this<00:03:04.639> bleeds<00:03:04.869> into<00:03:05.059> my<00:03:05.149> next<00:03:05.339> question.
00:03:06.229 --> 00:03:09.689
Did<00:03:06.619> you<00:03:06.769> ever<00:03:07.039> get<00:03:07.199> in<00:03:07.359> trouble<00:03:07.769> as<00:03:07.909> a<00:03:07.969> kid
<00:03:08.209>for<00:03:08.359> reading<00:03:08.709> or<00:03:08.859> watching<00:03:09.259> something<00:03:09.559> you
00:03:09.689 --> 00:03:11.529
had<00:03:09.799> no<00:03:10.029> business<00:03:10.739> reading<00:03:11.049> or<00:03:11.089> watching?
00:03:13.213 --> 00:03:14.153
Kennedy Cole: Oh<00:03:13.293> my<00:03:13.473> God.
00:03:15.423 --> 00:03:17.503
I<00:03:15.493> don't<00:03:15.813> know<00:03:15.833> about<00:03:16.123> trouble.
00:03:18.503 --> 00:03:22.423
My<00:03:18.763> parents,<00:03:19.393> like<00:03:19.573> they<00:03:19.753> weren't
<00:03:20.353>strict,<00:03:20.863> but<00:03:21.013> they<00:03:21.103> were<00:03:21.223> also<00:03:21.613> cautious.
00:03:22.683 --> 00:03:28.193
None<00:03:23.073> of<00:03:23.273> my<00:03:23.433> family<00:03:23.823> members<00:03:24.183> like<00:03:24.413> horror,
<00:03:24.953>so<00:03:26.133> I<00:03:26.613> had<00:03:26.853> to<00:03:26.933> reach<00:03:27.203> out<00:03:27.363> to<00:03:27.463> friends
00:03:28.253 --> 00:03:32.343
or<00:03:28.863> go<00:03:29.043> to<00:03:29.143> the<00:03:29.223> theater<00:03:29.503> by<00:03:29.703> myself<00:03:30.373> if<00:03:30.543> I
<00:03:30.623>ever<00:03:30.833> wanted<00:03:31.083> to<00:03:31.143> watch<00:03:31.383> horror<00:03:31.683> things.
00:03:32.923 --> 00:03:36.213
I<00:03:33.063> wasn't<00:03:33.383> necessarily<00:03:34.123> in<00:03:34.353> trouble,<00:03:34.873> but
<00:03:35.073>they<00:03:35.173> were<00:03:35.293> always<00:03:35.633> like,<00:03:35.803> "Why<00:03:35.993> do<00:03:36.053> you
00:03:36.213 --> 00:03:40.053
watch<00:03:36.503> that?<00:03:36.703> Do<00:03:36.753> you<00:03:36.883> like<00:03:37.113> being<00:03:37.513> scared?
<00:03:37.983>Like<00:03:38.213> what<00:03:38.453> is<00:03:38.683> the<00:03:38.823> like<00:03:39.173> reason<00:03:39.723> for<00:03:40.003> it?"
00:03:40.053 --> 00:03:43.283
And<00:03:40.163> I<00:03:40.283> was<00:03:40.453> always<00:03:40.643> like,<00:03:40.783> "I<00:03:40.893> don't
<00:03:41.013>know,<00:03:41.803> it's,<00:03:41.833> I<00:03:41.853> like<00:03:42.153> it,"<00:03:42.303> so<00:03:43.073> not
00:03:43.283 --> 00:03:46.683
necessarily<00:03:43.783> trouble,<00:03:44.113> but<00:03:44.343> definitely
<00:03:44.763>like<00:03:45.133> maybe<00:03:45.553> slight<00:03:45.903> judgment.
00:03:48.133 --> 00:03:48.743
Nailah King: Totally.
00:03:48.743 --> 00:03:50.453
I<00:03:48.813> used<00:03:49.033> to<00:03:49.123> always<00:03:49.383> watch<00:03:49.683> Are
<00:03:49.803>You<00:03:49.863> Afraid<00:03:50.053> of<00:03:50.163> the<00:03:50.233> Dark?
00:03:50.453 --> 00:03:52.883
and<00:03:50.583> stuff,<00:03:50.873> and<00:03:50.943> my<00:03:51.073> parents<00:03:51.353> would<00:03:51.408> be<00:03:51.463> like,
<00:03:51.623>"Why?"<00:03:52.023> And<00:03:52.113> I'm<00:03:52.353> like-<00:03:52.673> ... "Why<00:03:52.833> not?"
00:03:54.123 --> 00:03:54.713
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:03:54.753 --> 00:03:55.433
Exactly.
00:03:56.143 --> 00:03:56.853
Nailah King: Exactly,<00:03:56.563> why<00:03:56.653> not?
00:03:57.103 --> 00:04:00.433
And<00:03:57.213> my<00:03:57.303> final<00:03:57.643> icebreaker<00:03:58.153> is<00:03:58.433> if<00:03:58.573> you
<00:03:58.683>could<00:03:58.833> have<00:03:59.183> dinner<00:03:59.493> with<00:03:59.673> any<00:03:59.863> character
00:04:00.433 --> 00:04:02.133
living<00:04:00.833> or<00:04:01.053> dead,<00:04:01.423> who<00:04:01.593> would<00:04:01.733> it<00:04:01.813> be?
00:04:03.363 --> 00:04:03.763
Kennedy Cole: Hmm.
00:04:05.013 --> 00:04:07.623
Gosh,<00:04:05.313> these<00:04:05.523> are...<00:04:06.193> These
<00:04:06.623>icebreaker<00:04:07.143> questions.
00:04:07.623 --> 00:04:08.473
Oh<00:04:07.703> my<00:04:07.843> gosh.
00:04:09.333 --> 00:04:10.183
Living<00:04:09.633> or<00:04:09.733> dead.
00:04:11.353 --> 00:04:15.843
Now,<00:04:11.563> maybe<00:04:11.913> this<00:04:12.103> is<00:04:12.283> a<00:04:12.453> stupid<00:04:12.913> answer,<00:04:13.323> but
<00:04:13.463>I<00:04:13.643> really<00:04:14.093> love<00:04:14.383> the<00:04:14.443> Warrior<00:04:14.893> Cats<00:04:15.243> series.
00:04:16.163 --> 00:04:18.893
So<00:04:16.333> maybe<00:04:16.763> I<00:04:16.843> would<00:04:16.993> wanna<00:04:17.233> have
<00:04:17.453>dinner<00:04:17.703> with<00:04:17.863> one<00:04:17.983> of<00:04:18.033> the<00:04:18.153> cats,<00:04:18.503> okay?
00:04:18.893 --> 00:04:20.683
So<00:04:19.083> what<00:04:19.263> if<00:04:19.383> I<00:04:19.453> wanna<00:04:19.663> have
<00:04:19.773>dinner<00:04:19.973> with<00:04:20.103> one<00:04:20.213> of<00:04:20.293> the<00:04:20.373> cats?
00:04:20.693 --> 00:04:21.533
That<00:04:20.843> would<00:04:20.963> be<00:04:21.133> sick.
00:04:22.183 --> 00:04:23.513
Probably<00:04:22.663> Firestar<00:04:23.343> or<00:04:23.503> Bluestar.
00:04:23.513 --> 00:04:25.703
Bluestar<00:04:24.543> is<00:04:24.613> my<00:04:24.753> favorite<00:04:25.123> character.
00:04:26.573 --> 00:04:32.623
And<00:04:26.753> if<00:04:26.893> I<00:04:26.913> had<00:04:27.053> to<00:04:27.113> pick<00:04:27.293> a<00:04:27.333> person,
<00:04:29.203>ugh,<00:04:31.383> maybe<00:04:31.723> Katniss<00:04:31.733> Everdeen.
00:04:32.633 --> 00:04:33.743
That<00:04:32.733> would<00:04:32.833> be<00:04:33.043> really<00:04:33.303> cool.
00:04:34.293 --> 00:04:35.263
I'd<00:04:34.413> love<00:04:34.583> to<00:04:34.613> have<00:04:34.793> dinner<00:04:34.993> with<00:04:35.123> her.
00:04:36.443 --> 00:04:37.023
Nailah King: Nice.
00:04:37.753 --> 00:04:38.243
All<00:04:37.943> right.
00:04:38.303 --> 00:04:39.083
I've<00:04:38.433> had<00:04:38.613> my<00:04:38.723> fun.
00:04:39.093 --> 00:04:40.973
Thank<00:04:39.283> you<00:04:39.373> for<00:04:39.483> indulging<00:04:39.953> me<00:04:40.053> in<00:04:40.193> silliness.
00:04:41.423 --> 00:04:42.913
Let's<00:04:41.743> talk<00:04:41.933> about<00:04:42.163> you<00:04:42.383> and<00:04:42.523> your<00:04:42.603> book.
00:04:43.603 --> 00:04:46.443
Your<00:04:43.843> debut<00:04:44.243> novel<00:04:44.573> is<00:04:44.753> out
<00:04:44.983>in<00:04:45.123> November,<00:04:45.703> as<00:04:45.853> we<00:04:45.983> said.
00:04:46.463 --> 00:04:49.763
What<00:04:46.773> has<00:04:46.993> your<00:04:47.133> experience<00:04:47.673> as<00:04:47.813> a
<00:04:47.883>debut<00:04:48.593> author<00:04:48.953> been<00:04:49.153> like<00:04:49.363> so<00:04:49.493> far?
00:04:51.553 --> 00:04:54.763
Kennedy Cole: I<00:04:51.643> wanna<00:04:51.983> say
<00:04:52.333>it's<00:04:52.593> been<00:04:52.763> amazing,<00:04:53.523> but<00:04:54.633> that
00:04:54.763 --> 00:04:56.013
wouldn't<00:04:54.953> be<00:04:55.013> entirely<00:04:55.493> true.
00:04:56.523 --> 00:05:01.143
I<00:04:56.683> feel<00:04:56.893> like<00:04:57.173> with<00:04:57.523> any<00:04:58.903> publishing
<00:04:59.413>experience,<00:05:00.033> there's<00:05:00.233> going<00:05:00.473> to<00:05:00.523> be<00:05:00.673> downs.
00:05:01.153 --> 00:05:07.253
There's<00:05:01.693> been<00:05:01.873> some<00:05:02.083> really<00:05:02.393> great<00:05:02.733> ups,<00:05:03.723> but
<00:05:04.473>this<00:05:04.663> journey<00:05:04.993> hasn't<00:05:05.353> exactly<00:05:05.803> been<00:05:06.413> perfect.
00:05:07.443 --> 00:05:09.803
It<00:05:07.613> felt<00:05:07.943> like<00:05:08.153> a<00:05:08.243> rude
<00:05:08.483>awakening<00:05:09.003> in<00:05:09.093> a<00:05:09.153> weird<00:05:09.423> way.
00:05:09.803 --> 00:05:14.353
I<00:05:09.993> got<00:05:10.183> my<00:05:10.323> BFA<00:05:10.713> in<00:05:10.773> creative<00:05:11.113> writing,<00:05:11.553> so
<00:05:11.873>I<00:05:12.433> was<00:05:12.733> already<00:05:13.253> given<00:05:13.703> an<00:05:13.833> understanding
00:05:14.353 --> 00:05:17.743
of<00:05:14.443> what<00:05:14.573> the<00:05:14.653> publishing<00:05:15.063> industry
<00:05:15.453>was<00:05:15.623> like<00:05:15.863> before<00:05:16.463> I<00:05:17.073> entered<00:05:17.463> it.
00:05:18.133 --> 00:05:21.433
But<00:05:18.623> being<00:05:19.023> in<00:05:19.203> it<00:05:19.343> is<00:05:19.513> also<00:05:20.413> its<00:05:20.763> own<00:05:21.093> thing.
00:05:21.443 --> 00:05:26.433
you<00:05:21.573> have<00:05:21.733> your<00:05:21.893> own<00:05:22.093> personal<00:05:22.503> experience
<00:05:23.403>that<00:05:23.643> you're<00:05:24.003> having<00:05:24.373> to<00:05:24.483> navigate,<00:05:25.923> and
00:05:26.653 --> 00:05:31.013
I<00:05:26.753> think<00:05:27.013> I<00:05:27.163> kinda<00:05:27.533> came<00:05:27.853> in<00:05:28.233> with<00:05:28.533> what<00:05:28.733> I
<00:05:28.923>thought<00:05:29.363> was<00:05:29.683> a<00:05:29.773> complete<00:05:30.223> understanding,
00:05:31.013 --> 00:05:34.673
but<00:05:31.563> now<00:05:31.903> that<00:05:32.353> my<00:05:32.613> first<00:05:32.843> book's<00:05:33.013> about
<00:05:33.203>to<00:05:33.263> come<00:05:33.463> out,<00:05:33.643> I<00:05:33.723> can<00:05:33.923> say<00:05:34.093> I've<00:05:34.223> learned
00:05:34.923 --> 00:05:38.393
so<00:05:35.223> much<00:05:35.633> since<00:05:36.773> I<00:05:37.383> signed<00:05:37.703> my<00:05:37.823> book<00:05:38.043> deal.
00:05:38.393 --> 00:05:42.213
So<00:05:39.203> I<00:05:39.353> feel<00:05:39.513> like<00:05:40.073> there've<00:05:40.313> been<00:05:40.433> a
<00:05:40.483>lot<00:05:40.723> of<00:05:40.973> curves<00:05:41.573> and<00:05:41.723> things<00:05:41.983> that<00:05:42.123> I
00:05:42.233 --> 00:05:47.383
thought<00:05:42.453> were<00:05:42.543> gonna<00:05:42.713> happen<00:05:43.133> that
<00:05:43.343>haven't<00:05:43.963> or<00:05:44.813> maybe<00:05:45.443> some<00:05:46.913> things<00:05:47.203> that
00:05:47.383 --> 00:05:49.073
maybe<00:05:47.663> rubbed<00:05:47.913> me<00:05:48.033> a<00:05:48.123> little<00:05:48.403> wrong.
00:05:49.263 --> 00:05:55.033
But<00:05:50.213> the<00:05:50.393> highs<00:05:50.843> have<00:05:51.103> really<00:05:51.483> been,<00:05:51.793> like,
<00:05:52.363>incredible<00:05:53.103> so<00:05:53.323> far,<00:05:53.693> so<00:05:54.433> it's<00:05:54.583> all<00:05:54.703> about
00:05:55.313 --> 00:06:01.203
focusing<00:05:55.833> on<00:05:56.323> the<00:05:56.463> great<00:05:56.673> things,<00:05:57.203> which<00:05:57.593> I<00:05:58.083> tend
<00:05:58.323>to<00:05:58.413> do<00:05:59.223> with<00:05:59.473> most<00:05:59.833> of<00:06:00.043> things<00:06:00.413> in<00:06:00.483> my<00:06:00.603> life,<00:06:00.873> so.
00:06:03.101 --> 00:06:03.721
Nailah King: Totally.
00:06:04.491 --> 00:06:08.041
It<00:06:04.671> can,<00:06:05.031> I've<00:06:05.171> heard<00:06:05.411> that<00:06:05.541> it<00:06:05.631> can<00:06:05.841> be<00:06:06.061> a
<00:06:06.141>mixed<00:06:06.401> bag,<00:06:06.721> but<00:06:06.871> I<00:06:06.941> know-<00:06:07.261> Mm-hmm<00:06:08.031> ... a
00:06:08.041 --> 00:06:10.341
lot<00:06:08.071> of<00:06:08.091> people<00:06:08.141> are,<00:06:08.151> who<00:06:08.281> are<00:06:08.621> quite
<00:06:08.891>excited<00:06:09.271> for<00:06:09.391> the<00:06:09.551> book,<00:06:09.791> so<00:06:09.971> there<00:06:10.181> is<00:06:10.311> that.
00:06:10.341 --> 00:06:10.351
Oh,
00:06:10.351 --> 00:06:10.971
Kennedy Cole: thank<00:06:10.591> you.
00:06:11.421 --> 00:06:12.171
That<00:06:11.491> means<00:06:11.691> a<00:06:11.751> lot.
00:06:13.401 --> 00:06:16.051
Nailah King: Let's<00:06:13.731> talk<00:06:13.961> about
<00:06:14.361>There<00:06:14.531> Used<00:06:14.751> to<00:06:14.831> Be<00:06:14.941> People<00:06:15.271> Here.
00:06:16.121 --> 00:06:21.641
For<00:06:17.551> the<00:06:17.801> listeners<00:06:18.161> who<00:06:18.281> may<00:06:18.531> not<00:06:18.771> know,<00:06:19.431> tell
<00:06:19.631>us<00:06:19.891> a<00:06:19.971> little<00:06:20.201> bit<00:06:20.351> about<00:06:20.701> the<00:06:20.731> story,<00:06:21.371> and<00:06:21.511> if
00:06:21.641 --> 00:06:23.261
there<00:06:21.771> was<00:06:21.911> any<00:06:22.151> inspiration<00:06:22.741> for<00:06:22.861> the<00:06:22.921> book.
00:06:24.591 --> 00:06:28.671
Kennedy Cole: Okay,<00:06:24.961> so<00:06:25.551> There<00:06:25.741> Used<00:06:25.901> to
<00:06:25.971>Be<00:06:26.101> People<00:06:26.481> Here<00:06:26.851> follows<00:06:27.461> Samuel<00:06:27.971> Barclay,
00:06:28.681 --> 00:06:33.011
who's<00:06:29.011> the<00:06:29.211> only<00:06:29.521> Black<00:06:29.791> detective<00:06:30.571> in<00:06:30.811> the
<00:06:30.911>Winton,<00:06:31.401> Mississippi<00:06:32.041> Police<00:06:32.381> Department.
00:06:33.521 --> 00:06:38.971
The<00:06:33.671> story<00:06:34.181> starts,<00:06:35.431> well,<00:06:36.051> there's<00:06:36.321> a<00:06:36.381> little
<00:06:36.541>prologue,<00:06:37.111> but<00:06:37.451> for<00:06:37.591> Samuel,<00:06:38.021> the<00:06:38.121> story<00:06:38.451> starts
00:06:38.971 --> 00:06:43.341
when<00:06:39.121> he's<00:06:39.281> assigned<00:06:39.771> to<00:06:39.871> a<00:06:39.931> murder<00:06:40.201> case<00:06:40.471> that
<00:06:40.611>starts<00:06:40.811> at<00:06:40.891> a<00:06:40.931> gay<00:06:41.141> bar,<00:06:42.061> and<00:06:42.561> he's<00:06:42.851> forced<00:06:43.241> to
00:06:43.341 --> 00:06:47.741
work<00:06:43.761> with<00:06:44.321> a<00:06:44.541> partner,<00:06:46.261> named<00:06:46.591> Harvey<00:06:46.911> Wilkins.
00:06:48.241 --> 00:06:53.201
And<00:06:48.961> typically<00:06:49.481> Samuel's<00:06:49.911> used<00:06:50.131> to<00:06:50.191> working
<00:06:50.511>alone,<00:06:50.961> so<00:06:51.511> having<00:06:51.881> to<00:06:51.941> work<00:06:52.101> with<00:06:52.241> Harvey<00:06:53.001> is
00:06:53.201 --> 00:06:59.011
like,<00:06:54.731> really<00:06:55.201> uncomfortable,<00:06:55.861> and<00:06:56.291> he's<00:06:56.471> also
<00:06:56.791>having<00:06:57.121> to<00:06:57.191> do<00:06:57.351> a<00:06:57.421> murder<00:06:57.861> case,<00:06:58.271> which<00:06:58.781> there
00:06:59.081 --> 00:07:02.951
aren't<00:06:59.341> very<00:06:59.531> many<00:06:59.771> murders<00:07:00.161> in<00:07:00.281> this<00:07:00.661> small
<00:07:01.041>town,<00:07:01.391> so<00:07:01.611> there's<00:07:01.911> a<00:07:02.011> bit<00:07:02.171> of<00:07:02.241> confusion<00:07:02.711> there
00:07:02.951 --> 00:07:04.791
for<00:07:03.091> why<00:07:03.341> he's<00:07:03.641> the<00:07:03.731> one<00:07:03.941> who's<00:07:04.081> been<00:07:04.221> assigned.
00:07:05.621 --> 00:07:11.041
And<00:07:05.811> on<00:07:05.991> top<00:07:06.331> of<00:07:06.491> it<00:07:06.661> all,<00:07:07.121> he's<00:07:07.561> promised<00:07:08.211> a
<00:07:08.311>promotion<00:07:09.281> if<00:07:09.581> he<00:07:09.741> can<00:07:09.921> solve<00:07:10.391> the<00:07:10.491> case<00:07:10.891> in
00:07:11.041 --> 00:07:16.641
a<00:07:11.101> single<00:07:11.431> week,<00:07:11.761> which<00:07:12.721> sounds<00:07:13.201> impossible,
<00:07:13.951>but<00:07:14.431> for<00:07:14.571> Samuel,<00:07:15.561> this<00:07:15.771> is<00:07:15.911> his<00:07:16.111> dream,
00:07:16.711 --> 00:07:19.081
so<00:07:17.471> you<00:07:17.641> know,<00:07:17.931> he<00:07:18.291> gives<00:07:18.521> it<00:07:18.651> his<00:07:18.761> all.
00:07:19.141 --> 00:07:26.041
As<00:07:19.341> for<00:07:19.471> inspiration<00:07:20.361> to<00:07:20.491> the<00:07:20.601> story,<00:07:21.341> I<00:07:23.161> feel
<00:07:23.331>like<00:07:23.811> all<00:07:24.131> of<00:07:24.261> the<00:07:24.361> stories<00:07:24.811> that<00:07:25.001> I<00:07:25.121> write<00:07:25.611> kind
00:07:26.041 --> 00:07:32.785
of<00:07:26.321> come<00:07:26.601> to<00:07:26.701> me<00:07:26.911> in<00:07:27.111> bits<00:07:27.331> and<00:07:27.511> pieces,<00:07:28.051> so<00:07:28.281> I
<00:07:28.371>can't<00:07:28.801> pinpoint<00:07:29.301> an<00:07:29.471> exact<00:07:30.491> like<00:07:32.255> You<00:07:32.435> know,
00:07:33.205 --> 00:07:38.125
figure<00:07:33.685> that's<00:07:34.255> really<00:07:34.645> similar<00:07:35.045> to<00:07:35.175> Samuel
<00:07:35.605>and<00:07:35.775> like,<00:07:36.065> "Oh,<00:07:36.435> he's,<00:07:36.965> he's<00:07:37.235> who<00:07:37.435> I<00:07:37.525> want<00:07:37.975> to
00:07:38.125 --> 00:07:44.455
inspire<00:07:38.655> this<00:07:38.825> character."<00:07:40.045> I<00:07:40.145> will<00:07:40.365> say<00:07:40.565> when
<00:07:40.715>I<00:07:40.785> was<00:07:40.965> coming<00:07:41.245> up<00:07:41.315> with<00:07:41.425> the<00:07:41.565> idea,<00:07:42.885> I<00:07:44.175> did
00:07:44.465 --> 00:07:50.795
draw<00:07:44.965> from<00:07:45.415> Jordan<00:07:45.845> Peele's<00:07:46.665> Us,<00:07:48.365> for<00:07:48.575> like
<00:07:48.755>the<00:07:48.855> speculative<00:07:49.365> element<00:07:49.875> in<00:07:50.035> the<00:07:50.145> story.
00:07:50.915 --> 00:07:54.855
Obviously<00:07:51.445> very,<00:07:51.765> very<00:07:51.985> different<00:07:52.395> from
<00:07:52.585>what<00:07:52.725> it<00:07:52.815> ended<00:07:53.075> up<00:07:53.225> being,<00:07:53.705> but<00:07:54.475> when<00:07:54.655> I<00:07:54.715> was
00:07:54.855 --> 00:07:58.565
trying<00:07:55.075> to<00:07:55.155> find<00:07:55.745> a<00:07:55.825> new<00:07:55.985> story<00:07:56.295> to<00:07:56.405> write,
<00:07:57.345>I<00:07:57.435> was<00:07:57.575> like<00:07:57.725> talking<00:07:57.975> to<00:07:58.005> my<00:07:58.135> mom<00:07:58.415> one
00:07:58.565 --> 00:08:04.925
day,<00:07:59.685> and<00:07:59.865> we<00:07:59.955> were<00:08:00.075> talking<00:08:00.455> about<00:08:00.765> Us<00:08:01.175> and
<00:08:01.375>doppelgangers,<00:08:03.585> and<00:08:04.095> I<00:08:04.175> like<00:08:04.415> looked<00:08:04.685> up<00:08:04.805> the
00:08:04.935 --> 00:08:11.555
English<00:08:05.275> translation<00:08:05.945> of<00:08:06.745> doppelganger,<00:08:07.665> and
<00:08:08.405>it's<00:08:09.055> double<00:08:09.785> walker,<00:08:10.825> and<00:08:11.115> I<00:08:11.225> thought<00:08:11.435> that
00:08:11.555 --> 00:08:17.295
was<00:08:11.735> like<00:08:12.095> such<00:08:12.435> a<00:08:12.525> cool<00:08:12.885> idea<00:08:13.345> that,<00:08:14.085> there
<00:08:14.295>could<00:08:14.475> be<00:08:15.775> someone<00:08:16.205> who<00:08:16.445> looks<00:08:16.875> like<00:08:17.065> someone
00:08:17.295 --> 00:08:20.775
you<00:08:17.415> know<00:08:17.705> but<00:08:18.035> isn't<00:08:18.865> exactly<00:08:19.595> that<00:08:20.185> person.
00:08:20.835 --> 00:08:22.935
And<00:08:21.435> I<00:08:21.775> used<00:08:22.165> that<00:08:22.485> idea.
00:08:22.945 --> 00:08:26.525
The<00:08:23.075> original,<00:08:24.265> I<00:08:24.345> don't<00:08:24.485> think<00:08:24.645> I've<00:08:24.825> ever
<00:08:25.075>said<00:08:25.275> this<00:08:25.415> to<00:08:25.495> anyone,<00:08:25.745> but<00:08:25.865> the<00:08:25.955> original
00:08:26.595 --> 00:08:32.745
title<00:08:26.985> was<00:08:27.195> Double<00:08:27.455> Walker<00:08:28.565> for<00:08:29.615> There<00:08:29.805> Used
<00:08:29.925>to<00:08:29.965> Be<00:08:30.025> People<00:08:30.385> Here,<00:08:31.575> and<00:08:32.075> I<00:08:32.165> wrote<00:08:32.505> with
00:08:32.835 --> 00:08:36.135
that,<00:08:33.955> speculative<00:08:34.585> element<00:08:35.355> in<00:08:35.545> mind.
00:08:36.185 --> 00:08:40.915
So<00:08:37.175> yeah,<00:08:37.775> that's<00:08:37.995> probably<00:08:38.415> the
<00:08:39.145>main<00:08:39.795> inspiration,<00:08:40.455> I<00:08:40.545> would<00:08:40.655> say.
00:08:42.055 --> 00:08:44.315
Nailah King: I<00:08:42.215> love<00:08:42.525> that,
<00:08:42.745>and<00:08:42.875> I<00:08:42.945> also<00:08:43.265> love<00:08:43.455> doubles,<00:08:43.875> too.
00:08:44.375 --> 00:08:44.945
Kennedy Cole: Mm-hmm.
00:08:44.945 --> 00:08:47.725
Nailah King: I<00:08:45.635> wrote<00:08:45.885> something
<00:08:46.215>recently<00:08:46.675> with<00:08:46.865> like<00:08:47.065> doppelgangers,
00:08:47.765 --> 00:08:48.715
and<00:08:47.855> it<00:08:47.905> was<00:08:47.995> a<00:08:48.055> lot<00:08:48.245> of<00:08:48.345> fun.
00:08:48.775 --> 00:08:49.525
Yeah.
00:08:49.525 --> 00:08:51.315
So<00:08:49.625> I<00:08:49.725> like<00:08:49.825> that's<00:08:49.945> kind
<00:08:49.985>of<00:08:50.085> how<00:08:50.275> this<00:08:50.555> gestated.
00:08:51.455 --> 00:08:52.025
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:08:53.425 --> 00:08:53.635
Nailah King: Yeah.
00:08:53.665 --> 00:08:59.025
So<00:08:54.235> There<00:08:54.415> Used<00:08:54.685> to<00:08:54.785> Be<00:08:54.925> People<00:08:55.265> Here<00:08:55.605> blends
<00:08:56.035>crime,<00:08:56.915> thriller,<00:08:57.635> and<00:08:57.855> the<00:08:58.005> paranormal.
00:08:59.205 --> 00:09:02.525
Can<00:08:59.345> you<00:08:59.525> share<00:08:59.895> how<00:09:00.055> you<00:09:00.225> blended
<00:09:00.715>these<00:09:01.405> all<00:09:01.655> together<00:09:02.155> while
00:09:02.535 --> 00:09:04.325
keeping<00:09:02.975> each<00:09:03.325> kind<00:09:03.535> of<00:09:03.665> distinct?
00:09:04.705 --> 00:09:05.195
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:09:05.195 --> 00:09:07.645
I<00:09:05.365> started<00:09:06.055> with<00:09:06.485> the<00:09:06.635> crime<00:09:07.025> element.
00:09:07.685 --> 00:09:12.695
I<00:09:08.025> pulled<00:09:08.275> the<00:09:08.395> idea<00:09:08.885> from<00:09:09.135> a<00:09:09.165> short<00:09:09.415> story<00:09:09.725> I'd
<00:09:09.865>written<00:09:10.185> previously<00:09:11.575> where<00:09:12.085> the<00:09:12.195> prologue
00:09:12.695 --> 00:09:19.825
in<00:09:12.755> the<00:09:12.855> story<00:09:14.075> is,<00:09:14.655> there's<00:09:14.885> a<00:09:15.585> murder<00:09:15.855> in
<00:09:15.945>a<00:09:15.995> gay<00:09:16.155> bar,<00:09:16.985> and<00:09:17.855> my<00:09:18.515> first<00:09:19.255> thought<00:09:19.625> was
00:09:19.825 --> 00:09:22.975
like,<00:09:20.045> "Okay,<00:09:20.355> , if<00:09:20.475> I<00:09:20.525> wanna<00:09:20.725> use<00:09:20.855> this<00:09:20.975> short
<00:09:21.245>story<00:09:21.785> as<00:09:21.955> the<00:09:22.045> inspiration<00:09:22.535> for<00:09:22.625> the<00:09:22.705> book,
00:09:22.975 --> 00:09:24.505
what<00:09:23.185> would<00:09:23.345> naturally<00:09:23.805> happen<00:09:24.065> after?"
00:09:24.755 --> 00:09:26.895
Which<00:09:25.185> would<00:09:25.365> be<00:09:25.985> the<00:09:26.045> murder<00:09:26.265> mystery<00:09:26.595> part.
00:09:27.735 --> 00:09:34.835
And<00:09:27.935> then<00:09:28.175> as<00:09:28.405> I<00:09:28.465> was<00:09:28.715> writing,<00:09:29.885> I<00:09:30.035> felt
<00:09:30.435>like<00:09:32.045> putting<00:09:32.725> more<00:09:33.935> of<00:09:34.105> that<00:09:34.325> thriller
00:09:34.875 --> 00:09:40.645
element<00:09:35.435> with<00:09:35.675> the<00:09:35.805> single<00:09:36.575> week<00:09:37.075> being
<00:09:37.435>the<00:09:37.575> time<00:09:37.925> period<00:09:39.255> would<00:09:39.725> help<00:09:40.135> elevate
00:09:40.725 --> 00:09:45.599
the<00:09:40.785> plot<00:09:41.155> for<00:09:41.295> me,<00:09:41.535> and<00:09:41.665> also<00:09:41.985> I'm<00:09:42.155> a
<00:09:42.205>very<00:09:44.229> very<00:09:44.479> character-driven<00:09:45.199> writer,
00:09:45.599 --> 00:09:48.379
but<00:09:45.789> I<00:09:45.889> also<00:09:46.249> like<00:09:46.539> a<00:09:46.669> good,<00:09:47.039> quick<00:09:47.909> plot.
00:09:48.439 --> 00:09:54.299
I<00:09:48.619> love<00:09:48.959> when<00:09:49.099> the<00:09:49.199> story<00:09:49.619> moves<00:09:49.899> fast,<00:09:51.139> so
<00:09:51.809>that<00:09:52.089> for<00:09:52.259> me<00:09:52.509> was,<00:09:52.769> like,<00:09:53.649> that<00:09:53.979> thriller
00:09:54.309 --> 00:09:55.989
element<00:09:54.659> that<00:09:54.769> I<00:09:54.829> wanted<00:09:55.129> to<00:09:55.259> add<00:09:55.559> in.
00:09:56.779 --> 00:09:59.689
And<00:09:56.949> then<00:09:57.089> with<00:09:57.219> the<00:09:57.299> paranormal,<00:09:57.969> I
<00:09:58.059>already<00:09:58.259> mentioned<00:09:58.839> the<00:09:59.129> double<00:09:59.379> walker
00:09:59.689 --> 00:10:04.579
thing,<00:10:00.079> but,<00:10:01.549> like<00:10:01.869> you<00:10:02.059> said<00:10:02.209> in<00:10:02.279> my<00:10:02.379> bio,
<00:10:02.719>I<00:10:02.939> identify<00:10:03.459> as<00:10:03.569> a<00:10:03.639> speculative<00:10:04.219> author.
00:10:04.579 --> 00:10:09.669
I<00:10:04.699> really<00:10:04.999> like<00:10:06.139> when<00:10:06.719> reality
<00:10:07.389>is<00:10:07.559> kind<00:10:07.799> of<00:10:08.489> tinged<00:10:09.069> with<00:10:09.319> a
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.809
aspect<00:10:10.389> of<00:10:12.009> unreality,<00:10:13.289> I<00:10:13.409> guess.
00:10:13.869 --> 00:10:18.949
So<00:10:14.629> you<00:10:14.749> know,<00:10:14.979> adding<00:10:15.279> in<00:10:15.439> that<00:10:15.929> speculative
<00:10:16.499>horror<00:10:16.709> element<00:10:17.199> was,<00:10:17.709> the<00:10:17.889> perfect<00:10:18.559> little,
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.829
cherry<00:10:19.409> on<00:10:19.569> top<00:10:19.759> of<00:10:19.889> what<00:10:20.019> was<00:10:20.239> already<00:10:20.809> the
<00:10:20.929>murder<00:10:21.189> mystery,<00:10:22.209> and<00:10:22.339> I<00:10:22.389> feel<00:10:22.589> like<00:10:22.749> it
00:10:22.829 --> 00:10:28.159
wouldn't,<00:10:23.369> it<00:10:23.529> would<00:10:23.689> not<00:10:23.919> be<00:10:24.009> the<00:10:24.119> same
<00:10:24.309>story<00:10:24.639> without<00:10:25.929> the<00:10:26.129> tar<00:10:26.829> or<00:10:27.579> the<00:10:27.699> creatures
00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:30.459
that<00:10:28.329> are<00:10:29.199> later<00:10:29.469> revealed<00:10:29.839> in<00:10:29.909> the<00:10:29.989> story.
00:10:31.779 --> 00:10:32.349
Nailah King: For<00:10:31.959> sure.
00:10:32.369 --> 00:10:34.719
I<00:10:32.479> really<00:10:32.869> think<00:10:33.109> that<00:10:33.249> that<00:10:33.399> part's<00:10:33.749> distinct.
00:10:34.789 --> 00:10:35.269
Kennedy Cole: Mm-hmm.
00:10:35.909 --> 00:10:38.129
Nailah King: And<00:10:36.109> also<00:10:36.369> it's
<00:10:36.469>a<00:10:36.519> huge<00:10:36.919> draw<00:10:37.389> of<00:10:37.529> the<00:10:37.599> book.
00:10:38.129 --> 00:10:41.759
I<00:10:38.279> was<00:10:38.519> riveted,<00:10:39.609> so<00:10:39.909> all<00:10:39.929> that<00:10:40.169> was
<00:10:40.399>blended<00:10:40.809> well,<00:10:41.269> so<00:10:41.379> I<00:10:41.449> wanted<00:10:41.679> to
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:43.089
know<00:10:42.239> what<00:10:42.409> the<00:10:42.509> special<00:10:42.829> sauce<00:10:43.059> was.
00:10:43.129 --> 00:10:43.939
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:10:44.359 --> 00:10:45.279
Thank<00:10:44.549> you<00:10:44.639> so<00:10:44.769> much.
00:10:45.949 --> 00:10:49.649
Nailah King: So<00:10:46.529> the<00:10:46.659> novel<00:10:47.089> takes<00:10:47.309> place
<00:10:47.599>during<00:10:47.919> the<00:10:48.059> 1970s,<00:10:48.869> another<00:10:49.129> kind<00:10:49.259> of<00:10:49.369> unique
00:10:49.659 --> 00:10:55.589
element,<00:10:50.299> which<00:10:50.779> from<00:10:51.179> a<00:10:51.449> crime<00:10:51.929> procedural
<00:10:52.539>writing<00:10:52.789> perspective,<00:10:53.719> no<00:10:53.959> DNA,<00:10:55.329> more
00:10:55.629 --> 00:10:58.339
dated<00:10:56.059> policing<00:10:56.759> can<00:10:57.159> make<00:10:57.359> things<00:10:57.679> easier.
00:10:58.699 --> 00:11:02.859
Mm.<00:10:59.009> But<00:10:59.149> were<00:10:59.589> there<00:10:59.759> any<00:11:00.009> challenges
<00:11:00.749>or<00:11:00.899> concerns<00:11:01.419> you<00:11:01.549> had<00:11:02.169> when<00:11:02.379> building
00:11:02.859 --> 00:11:06.579
a<00:11:02.919> crime<00:11:03.259> story<00:11:03.659> in<00:11:03.819> this<00:11:04.069> era,<00:11:04.489> and
<00:11:04.689>if<00:11:04.929> yes,<00:11:05.279> how<00:11:05.489> did<00:11:05.669> you<00:11:05.789> tackle<00:11:06.179> them?
00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:07.279
Kennedy Cole: Hmm.
00:11:08.129 --> 00:11:13.519
Well,<00:11:08.289> honestly,<00:11:08.739> I<00:11:08.819> would<00:11:09.059> argue<00:11:09.519> that<00:11:09.769> the
<00:11:09.869>no<00:11:10.059> DNA<00:11:10.449> thing<00:11:10.689> makes<00:11:10.919> it<00:11:11.699> harder<00:11:12.929> because,
00:11:13.529 --> 00:11:18.629
like,<00:11:13.939> how<00:11:14.359> are<00:11:14.459> they<00:11:14.619> gonna<00:11:14.819> solve<00:11:15.069> the<00:11:15.189> crime,
<00:11:15.569>I<00:11:15.709> also<00:11:16.339> felt<00:11:16.669> like<00:11:17.399> the<00:11:17.539> lack<00:11:17.769> of<00:11:17.879> technology
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.609
was<00:11:19.009> somewhat<00:11:19.459> of<00:11:19.579> a<00:11:19.619> challenge<00:11:20.109> for<00:11:20.329> me.
00:11:20.669 --> 00:11:25.249
Originally<00:11:21.239> when<00:11:21.349> I<00:11:21.399> was<00:11:21.529> writing<00:11:21.779> a
<00:11:21.859>story,<00:11:22.609> I<00:11:22.809> had<00:11:23.299> computers,<00:11:24.669> obviously<00:11:25.109> no
00:11:25.249 --> 00:11:29.069
phones,<00:11:25.689> but<00:11:25.869> things<00:11:26.289> that<00:11:27.019> I<00:11:27.319> needed<00:11:27.599> to
<00:11:27.709>later<00:11:27.999> go<00:11:28.139> back<00:11:28.339> and<00:11:28.409> do<00:11:28.529> research<00:11:28.859> on<00:11:28.999> and
00:11:29.069 --> 00:11:32.849
be<00:11:29.139> like,<00:11:29.279> "Oh,<00:11:29.399> this<00:11:29.639> actually<00:11:30.159> wasn't
<00:11:30.499>around<00:11:30.849> at<00:11:30.949> that<00:11:31.109> time,"<00:11:31.459> so<00:11:32.309> how<00:11:32.499> were<00:11:32.699> they
00:11:32.849 --> 00:11:36.799
communicating<00:11:33.579> with<00:11:33.759> each<00:11:33.949> other<00:11:34.309> and<00:11:35.019> how
<00:11:35.279>did<00:11:35.509> they<00:11:35.619> keep<00:11:35.829> track<00:11:36.129> of<00:11:36.279> everything?
00:11:36.849 --> 00:11:40.399
Especially<00:11:37.269> in<00:11:37.379> such<00:11:37.609> a<00:11:37.679> small<00:11:37.979> town<00:11:38.329> where
<00:11:38.449>things<00:11:38.729> like<00:11:38.879> that<00:11:39.069> didn't<00:11:39.339> happen<00:11:39.769> very<00:11:39.989> often.
00:11:40.449 --> 00:11:48.129
It<00:11:40.609> was<00:11:40.939> really<00:11:42.639> stumble<00:11:43.309> upon<00:11:43.639> things<00:11:44.179> and
<00:11:44.759>piece<00:11:45.039> them<00:11:45.229> together<00:11:45.639> later<00:11:46.199> kind<00:11:46.509> of<00:11:47.289> story
00:11:48.229 --> 00:11:49.539
especially<00:11:48.669> during<00:11:48.819> the<00:11:48.889> first<00:11:49.099> draft.
00:11:49.549 --> 00:11:53.779
So<00:11:50.829> those<00:11:51.009> were<00:11:51.079> probably<00:11:51.309> the
<00:11:51.409>main<00:11:51.659> challenges<00:11:52.539> I<00:11:52.679> experienced.
00:11:53.849 --> 00:11:59.665
I<00:11:53.939> mean<00:11:55.875> with<00:11:56.155> any<00:11:56.485> murder<00:11:56.805> mystery,<00:11:57.505> you
<00:11:57.655>wanna,<00:11:57.935> surprise<00:11:58.465> yourself<00:11:59.025> in<00:11:59.145> a<00:11:59.225> way.
00:11:59.735 --> 00:12:02.245
'Cause<00:11:59.945> I'm<00:12:00.145> the<00:12:00.235> type<00:12:00.395> of<00:12:00.515> writer
<00:12:00.825>where<00:12:01.005> I<00:12:01.115> really<00:12:01.435> enjoy<00:12:01.735> pantsing.
00:12:02.255 --> 00:12:05.375
I<00:12:02.375> love<00:12:02.625> knowing<00:12:03.325> or<00:12:03.455> not<00:12:03.745> knowing
<00:12:04.015>what's<00:12:04.195> gonna<00:12:04.375> happen,<00:12:04.785> so,<00:12:04.975> whenever
00:12:05.375 --> 00:12:08.295
it<00:12:05.575> does<00:12:05.815> come<00:12:05.985> together,<00:12:06.315> If<00:12:06.445> this<00:12:06.565> is
<00:12:06.675>surprising<00:12:07.185> me,<00:12:07.445> then,<00:12:07.645> imagine<00:12:08.055> how
00:12:08.565 --> 00:12:09.925
surprised<00:12:09.055> the<00:12:09.145> reader's<00:12:09.545> gonna<00:12:09.735> be.
00:12:09.925 --> 00:12:13.675
That<00:12:10.175> was<00:12:10.405> really<00:12:11.185> an<00:12:11.395> element<00:12:11.755> that<00:12:11.975> helped
<00:12:12.295>carry<00:12:12.625> me<00:12:12.775> through<00:12:13.245> There<00:12:13.405> Used<00:12:13.565> to<00:12:13.595> Be
00:12:13.675 --> 00:12:14.875
People<00:12:13.935> Here<00:12:14.105> while<00:12:14.245> I<00:12:14.295> was<00:12:14.445> writing<00:12:14.725> it.
00:12:14.935 --> 00:12:15.115
Nailah King: Awesome.
00:12:15.115 --> 00:12:17.575
Yeah,<00:12:15.355> because,<00:12:15.625> I<00:12:15.695> was<00:12:15.845> wondering<00:12:16.235> because
<00:12:16.625>when<00:12:16.805> I've<00:12:16.925> talked<00:12:17.055> to<00:12:17.115> other<00:12:17.285> crime
00:12:17.575 --> 00:12:20.275
writers,<00:12:17.745> they're<00:12:17.855> like,<00:12:18.025> "We<00:12:18.205> love<00:12:18.845> going
<00:12:19.145>back<00:12:19.285> in<00:12:19.365> time<00:12:19.715> because-"<00:12:20.035> Mm-hmm<00:12:20.195> ... you
00:12:20.275 --> 00:12:24.665
don't<00:12:20.375> have<00:12:20.595> to<00:12:21.335> contend<00:12:21.915> for<00:12:22.065> like<00:12:22.305> things
<00:12:22.545>like<00:12:22.685> CCTV<00:12:23.525> and<00:12:23.855> all<00:12:24.095> of<00:12:24.165> these<00:12:24.385> things,
00:12:24.665 --> 00:12:27.125
and<00:12:24.755> it<00:12:24.795> makes<00:12:24.895> it-<00:12:24.925> Right<00:12:25.525> ... so<00:12:25.545> much
<00:12:25.575>easier<00:12:25.885> to<00:12:26.055> do<00:12:26.235> red<00:12:26.435> herrings<00:12:26.805> and<00:12:26.935> stuff.
00:12:27.125 --> 00:12:29.585
But<00:12:27.245> I<00:12:27.255> was<00:12:27.375> like,<00:12:27.545> yeah,<00:12:27.945> but<00:12:28.215> then
<00:12:28.385>you<00:12:28.475> have<00:12:28.605> to<00:12:28.715> recall<00:12:29.175> how<00:12:29.305> people
00:12:29.585 --> 00:12:31.465
did<00:12:29.795> other<00:12:30.125> things<00:12:30.495> and<00:12:30.905> like-<00:12:30.935> Yeah,
00:12:31.495 --> 00:12:31.815
Kennedy Cole: lots
00:12:31.815 --> 00:12:33.715
Nailah King: of<00:12:33.665> research
00:12:33.715 --> 00:12:33.975
sometimes<00:12:33.785> that's
00:12:33.975 --> 00:12:33.985
Kennedy Cole: harder.
00:12:33.985 --> 00:12:34.635
Mm-hmm.
00:12:34.695 --> 00:12:35.325
Nailah King: For<00:12:34.885> sure.
00:12:35.915 --> 00:12:38.795
So<00:12:36.395> I<00:12:36.465> wanna<00:12:36.695> talk<00:12:36.865> a<00:12:36.905> little<00:12:37.085> bit
<00:12:37.205>about<00:12:37.375> Samuel,<00:12:37.845> our<00:12:37.955> main<00:12:38.145> character.
00:12:38.975 --> 00:12:40.815
He<00:12:39.245> works<00:12:39.575> as<00:12:39.755> a<00:12:39.805> detective,<00:12:40.235> obviously.
00:12:40.915 --> 00:12:45.825
Early<00:12:41.265> in<00:12:41.355> the<00:12:41.455> novel,<00:12:42.245> there<00:12:42.475> is<00:12:42.745> some<00:12:43.035> kind
<00:12:43.245>of<00:12:43.355> tension<00:12:43.815> around<00:12:44.135> Samuel<00:12:44.825> being<00:12:45.265> a<00:12:45.375> cop.
00:12:46.205 --> 00:12:46.415
Yeah.
00:12:46.415 --> 00:12:49.185
Particularly<00:12:46.845> when<00:12:47.005> he<00:12:47.225> visits
<00:12:47.665>Frog<00:12:48.005> Level-<00:12:48.665> Mm-hmm<00:12:49.095> which<00:12:49.125> is<00:12:49.155> a
00:12:49.185 --> 00:12:50.735
community,<00:12:49.835> with<00:12:49.985> other<00:12:50.145> Black<00:12:50.375> folks.
00:12:51.255 --> 00:12:55.395
Can<00:12:51.445> you<00:12:51.595> share<00:12:51.985> how<00:12:52.115> you<00:12:52.255> developed<00:12:52.665> his
<00:12:52.975>character<00:12:53.825> and<00:12:53.985> his<00:12:54.485> kind<00:12:54.665> of<00:12:54.765> awareness
00:12:55.395 --> 00:13:00.855
around<00:12:55.885> pursuing<00:12:56.445> this<00:12:56.645> career<00:12:56.885> as<00:12:56.995> a
<00:12:57.055>detective<00:12:58.065> even<00:12:58.515> though<00:12:59.885> it's<00:13:00.255> harmful
00:13:00.905 --> 00:13:05.255
certainly<00:13:01.365> to<00:13:01.485> him<00:13:02.245> and<00:13:02.725> potentially
<00:13:03.265>other<00:13:03.475> Black<00:13:03.875> folks<00:13:04.225> in<00:13:04.375> this<00:13:04.535> community?
00:13:05.795 --> 00:13:06.145
Kennedy Cole: Hmm.
00:13:07.215 --> 00:13:12.875
I<00:13:07.355> think<00:13:07.615> a<00:13:07.655> big<00:13:07.905> part<00:13:08.175> of<00:13:08.295> Samuel's
<00:13:09.545>character,<00:13:11.155> is<00:13:11.405> revealed<00:13:12.055> when<00:13:12.425> he
00:13:12.885 --> 00:13:14.415
visits<00:13:13.245> Frog<00:13:13.535> Level<00:13:13.795> in<00:13:13.855> the<00:13:13.975> story.
00:13:14.415 --> 00:13:17.025
Up<00:13:14.525> until<00:13:14.805> that<00:13:14.995> point<00:13:15.245> he's
<00:13:15.455>surrounded<00:13:15.935> by<00:13:16.045> white<00:13:16.295> people<00:13:16.765> and,
00:13:17.525 --> 00:13:19.305
he's<00:13:18.255> the<00:13:18.425> only<00:13:18.615> Black<00:13:18.805> person<00:13:19.105> there.
00:13:19.305 --> 00:13:24.095
He<00:13:19.485> stands<00:13:19.955> out<00:13:20.165> in<00:13:20.285> his<00:13:20.415> own<00:13:20.625> way,<00:13:21.895> not<00:13:22.155> just
<00:13:22.335>because<00:13:22.585> of<00:13:22.685> his<00:13:22.775> skin<00:13:23.015> color,<00:13:23.285> but<00:13:23.425> also,<00:13:23.795> he's
00:13:24.205 --> 00:13:26.815
really<00:13:24.525> reserved<00:13:25.415> and<00:13:25.995> keeps<00:13:26.245> to<00:13:26.335> himself.
00:13:26.835 --> 00:13:30.215
But<00:13:27.445> I<00:13:27.465> feel<00:13:27.655> like<00:13:27.755> he<00:13:27.855> kind<00:13:28.005> of<00:13:28.115> opens<00:13:28.435> up
<00:13:28.625>a<00:13:28.675> bit<00:13:28.895> when<00:13:29.055> he<00:13:29.155> goes<00:13:29.385> to<00:13:29.505> Frog<00:13:29.825> Level.
00:13:30.265 --> 00:13:31.695
He<00:13:30.425> knows<00:13:30.745> the<00:13:30.855> people<00:13:31.305> there.
00:13:31.695 --> 00:13:33.305
He's<00:13:31.895> laughing<00:13:32.515> and<00:13:32.655> smiling.
00:13:33.305 --> 00:13:36.185
Like<00:13:33.485> he<00:13:34.265> didn't<00:13:34.495> have<00:13:34.825> that
<00:13:35.145>up<00:13:35.345> until<00:13:35.585> this<00:13:35.785> point.
00:13:36.925 --> 00:13:44.465
I<00:13:37.055> feel<00:13:37.375> when<00:13:37.615> I<00:13:37.695> was<00:13:38.025> writing<00:13:38.615> Samuel,<00:13:39.895> in<00:13:40.035> the
<00:13:40.175>original<00:13:40.615> version<00:13:41.815> that<00:13:42.155> scene<00:13:43.445> was<00:13:43.695> not<00:13:43.965> there.
00:13:44.725 --> 00:13:49.585
I<00:13:44.835> had<00:13:45.075> to<00:13:45.145> go<00:13:45.315> back<00:13:46.335> and<00:13:47.105> add<00:13:47.385> that<00:13:47.555> in
<00:13:47.735>later<00:13:48.155> 'cause<00:13:48.645> when<00:13:48.785> I<00:13:48.855> was<00:13:49.025> rereading<00:13:49.495> the
00:13:49.585 --> 00:13:55.415
draft,<00:13:50.195> mind<00:13:50.465> you<00:13:50.585> this<00:13:50.745> was<00:13:50.845> like<00:13:51.055> four
<00:13:51.325>years<00:13:51.475> ago,<00:13:52.685> I<00:13:53.165> felt<00:13:53.545> like<00:13:54.395> there<00:13:54.735> was<00:13:55.055> a<00:13:55.145> big
00:13:56.065 --> 00:14:00.285
element<00:13:56.465> missing<00:13:56.825> there<00:13:57.125> of<00:13:57.455> his<00:13:57.745> Blackness
<00:13:58.215>being<00:13:58.815> received<00:13:59.275> by<00:13:59.415> other<00:13:59.605> Black<00:13:59.855> people
00:14:00.285 --> 00:14:01.825
in<00:14:00.385> a<00:14:00.435> way<00:14:00.645> that<00:14:00.815> was<00:14:00.965> affirming<00:14:01.425> to<00:14:01.555> him.
00:14:02.615 --> 00:14:09.775
And<00:14:04.115> you<00:14:04.365> know,<00:14:04.495> when<00:14:04.635> you<00:14:04.715> say<00:14:04.985> like<00:14:05.525> it,<00:14:05.915> it's
<00:14:06.105>harmful<00:14:06.755> to<00:14:06.925> him<00:14:07.215> to<00:14:07.355> be<00:14:08.215> a<00:14:08.315> police<00:14:08.895> officer,
00:14:10.695 --> 00:14:17.075
I<00:14:10.835> don't<00:14:11.245> think<00:14:11.595> Samuel<00:14:12.155> would<00:14:13.495> think<00:14:14.145> being
<00:14:14.475>a<00:14:14.525> police<00:14:14.865> officer<00:14:15.395> is<00:14:16.215> what's<00:14:16.455> harming<00:14:16.855> him.
00:14:17.075 --> 00:14:24.955
I<00:14:17.175> think<00:14:18.065> it's<00:14:18.685> the<00:14:19.905> racist<00:14:20.745> people<00:14:21.395> who
<00:14:22.155>are,<00:14:23.125> kind<00:14:23.365> of<00:14:23.895> using<00:14:24.295> his<00:14:24.425> status<00:14:24.755> as<00:14:24.905> a
00:14:24.955 --> 00:14:27.385
police<00:14:25.235> officer<00:14:26.335> to<00:14:26.565> cause<00:14:26.855> harm<00:14:27.105> to<00:14:27.185> him.
00:14:27.385 --> 00:14:31.673
I<00:14:27.515> think-<00:14:28.613> And<00:14:28.763> being<00:14:29.023> a<00:14:29.073> Black<00:14:29.313> police
<00:14:29.553>officer<00:14:30.543> in<00:14:30.563> itself<00:14:30.669> is<00:14:30.776> not<00:14:30.883> a<00:14:30.963> harmful<00:14:31.313> thing.
00:14:31.733 --> 00:14:37.033
I<00:14:32.833> wrote<00:14:33.283> Samuel<00:14:33.883> as<00:14:34.063> someone
<00:14:34.963>who<00:14:35.613> is<00:14:35.833> pursuing<00:14:36.393> a<00:14:36.443> dream.
00:14:37.363 --> 00:14:43.183
And,<00:14:38.773> I<00:14:38.913> think<00:14:39.653> with<00:14:39.893> any<00:14:40.603> pursuit<00:14:41.343> of<00:14:41.533> a
<00:14:41.583>dream,<00:14:41.953> especially<00:14:42.373> as<00:14:42.483> a<00:14:42.543> Black<00:14:42.803> person
00:14:43.183 --> 00:14:47.953
in<00:14:43.313> a<00:14:43.973> predominantly<00:14:44.553> white<00:14:45.433> space,
<00:14:46.013>there<00:14:46.313> are<00:14:46.533> going<00:14:46.773> to<00:14:46.843> be<00:14:46.953> challenges.
00:14:48.483 --> 00:14:53.323
But<00:14:48.643> I<00:14:48.783> think,<00:14:49.403> when<00:14:49.623> he<00:14:50.063> visits<00:14:50.453> Frog
<00:14:50.803>Level<00:14:51.113> and<00:14:51.233> is<00:14:51.413> reminded<00:14:51.943> of<00:14:52.063> his<00:14:52.913> roots<00:14:53.223> in
00:14:53.323 --> 00:14:57.953
a<00:14:53.383> way<00:14:53.643> and<00:14:53.793> why<00:14:54.243> he's<00:14:55.763> a<00:14:55.773> police<00:14:56.043> officer,
<00:14:56.493>it<00:14:56.633> is<00:14:56.813> to<00:14:56.923> protect<00:14:57.333> those<00:14:57.583> people.
00:14:57.953 --> 00:15:01.993
It<00:14:58.043> is<00:14:58.263> to<00:14:58.463> have<00:14:58.863> someone<00:14:59.193> who<00:14:59.313> represents
<00:14:59.833>them<00:15:00.013> within<00:15:00.473> that<00:15:00.763> police<00:15:01.623> area.
00:15:01.993 --> 00:15:05.503
Especially,<00:15:03.183> in<00:15:03.293> an<00:15:03.413> all-white
<00:15:03.783>police<00:15:04.063> department<00:15:04.593> in<00:15:04.823> Mississippi,
00:15:05.503 --> 00:15:08.453
there<00:15:05.693> might<00:15:05.933> be<00:15:06.133> some<00:15:06.403> things<00:15:06.673> that
<00:15:06.793>get<00:15:06.943> looked<00:15:07.173> over<00:15:07.703> quite<00:15:08.013> a<00:15:08.053> lot.
00:15:08.493 --> 00:15:13.733
So<00:15:09.323> I<00:15:09.443> think<00:15:09.823> it's<00:15:10.033> actually<00:15:11.393> quite
<00:15:11.653>helpful<00:15:11.993> to<00:15:12.093> have<00:15:12.323> Samuel<00:15:12.703> be<00:15:12.873> there<00:15:13.473> for
00:15:13.733 --> 00:15:15.533
them<00:15:14.433> to<00:15:14.553> represent<00:15:14.963> them<00:15:15.103> in<00:15:15.183> a<00:15:15.233> way.
00:15:16.673 --> 00:15:17.293
Nailah King: Totally.
00:15:17.333 --> 00:15:20.483
I<00:15:17.423> just<00:15:17.623> wanted<00:15:17.883> to<00:15:18.043> get<00:15:18.243> that<00:15:18.423> sense,<00:15:18.723> 'cause
<00:15:18.853>there's<00:15:19.013> that<00:15:19.173> scene<00:15:19.723> with<00:15:19.883> the<00:15:19.973> bartender
00:15:20.483 --> 00:15:25.833
kind<00:15:20.593> of<00:15:20.743> asking<00:15:21.223> him,<00:15:21.523> and<00:15:21.643> I'm<00:15:21.733> like,<00:15:21.943> yeah,
<00:15:22.203>I'm<00:15:22.403> sure<00:15:24.463> probably<00:15:24.923> people<00:15:25.213> who<00:15:25.513> are<00:15:25.603> in<00:15:25.723> law
00:15:25.833 --> 00:15:27.423
enforcement<00:15:26.273> ask<00:15:26.483> themselves<00:15:27.023> that<00:15:27.203> question.
00:15:27.433 --> 00:15:27.953
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:15:29.153 --> 00:15:30.023
Absolutely
00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:32.129
Nailah King: For<00:15:31.689> sure.
00:15:33.079 --> 00:15:36.039
So<00:15:33.289> now<00:15:33.499> to<00:15:33.599> Harvey<00:15:34.119> and
<00:15:34.329>Samuel,<00:15:34.849> their<00:15:35.309> connection.
00:15:36.229 --> 00:15:41.529
Throughout<00:15:36.489> the<00:15:36.579> novel,<00:15:38.139> I<00:15:38.149> found<00:15:38.189> them<00:15:38.299> to<00:15:38.439> be
<00:15:38.659>almost<00:15:39.189> like<00:15:39.479> good<00:15:39.859> cop<00:15:40.259> and<00:15:40.469> bad<00:15:40.779> cop-ing<00:15:41.339> their
00:15:41.579 --> 00:15:47.749
own<00:15:42.319> way<00:15:42.609> through<00:15:42.859> their<00:15:43.059> friendship,<00:15:44.349> and
<00:15:44.589>what<00:15:44.809> I<00:15:45.029> mean<00:15:45.229> by<00:15:45.379> that<00:15:45.659> is<00:15:46.359> they're<00:15:47.339> switching
00:15:47.749 --> 00:15:51.629
place<00:15:48.159> in<00:15:48.309> terms<00:15:48.609> of<00:15:48.769> should<00:15:49.059> the<00:15:49.289> friendship
<00:15:49.829>exist,<00:15:50.349> how<00:15:50.569> should<00:15:50.749> the<00:15:50.809> friendship<00:15:51.209> exist?
00:15:51.649 --> 00:15:55.149
They're<00:15:51.809> switching<00:15:52.199> places<00:15:52.609> the<00:15:52.699> whole
<00:15:52.889>time,<00:15:53.139> and<00:15:53.229> I<00:15:53.279> thought<00:15:53.479> that<00:15:53.529> was,<00:15:54.819> I<00:15:54.949> won't
00:15:55.149 --> 00:15:56.419
lie,<00:15:55.289> kind<00:15:55.479> of<00:15:55.549> funny,<00:15:55.839> kind<00:15:55.969> of<00:15:56.049> fun.
00:15:56.599 --> 00:16:00.249
But<00:15:56.639> also<00:15:57.069> really<00:15:57.419> interesting<00:15:57.969> in<00:15:58.059> terms
<00:15:58.319>of<00:15:58.449> exploring<00:15:59.099> that<00:15:59.229> kind<00:15:59.409> of<00:15:59.519> dynamic.
00:16:00.499 --> 00:16:00.839
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:16:00.969 --> 00:16:01.169
Nailah King: Mm-hmm.
00:16:01.569 --> 00:16:04.379
Can<00:16:01.749> you<00:16:01.889> share<00:16:02.119> how<00:16:02.219> you<00:16:02.379> developed
<00:16:02.889>their<00:16:03.099> arc<00:16:03.599> in<00:16:03.749> the<00:16:03.839> story?
00:16:05.099 --> 00:16:09.849
Kennedy Cole: Yeah,<00:16:05.679> so<00:16:07.019> for<00:16:07.219> Harvey
<00:16:07.629>specifically,<00:16:08.519> I<00:16:08.739> did<00:16:09.079> really<00:16:09.409> want<00:16:09.649> him
00:16:09.889 --> 00:16:14.849
to<00:16:09.989> be<00:16:10.139> the<00:16:10.259> counterweight<00:16:10.809> to<00:16:10.959> Samuel<00:16:11.999> in
<00:16:12.229>terms<00:16:12.649> of,<00:16:13.089> Samuel<00:16:13.459> is<00:16:13.619> very<00:16:14.169> reserved.
00:16:14.849 --> 00:16:21.099
He's<00:16:15.069> very,<00:16:15.559> slow<00:16:16.069> to<00:16:16.199> trust,<00:16:16.999> whereas,<00:16:17.749> Harvey
<00:16:18.069>presents<00:16:18.409> himself<00:16:18.899> as<00:16:19.689> a<00:16:19.789> trustworthy<00:16:20.399> person.
00:16:21.939 --> 00:16:24.629
I'm<00:16:22.109> not<00:16:22.229> gonna<00:16:22.359> spoil,<00:16:22.699> but<00:16:22.979> certain
<00:16:23.359>things<00:16:23.689> where<00:16:23.789> it's<00:16:23.959> like,<00:16:24.199> okay,
00:16:24.629 --> 00:16:25.969
what's<00:16:24.889> actually<00:16:25.239> going<00:16:25.469> on<00:16:25.639> here?
00:16:25.979 --> 00:16:32.419
But,<00:16:26.479> on<00:16:26.739> a<00:16:26.809> surface<00:16:27.229> level,<00:16:27.529> I<00:16:27.589> do<00:16:27.779> believe
<00:16:29.179>Harvey<00:16:29.609> is<00:16:29.819> someone<00:16:30.419> who<00:16:31.229> Samuel,<00:16:32.079> opens
00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:38.069
up<00:16:32.609> to<00:16:32.879> easier<00:16:33.929> than<00:16:35.269> literally<00:16:35.839> every
<00:16:36.199>other<00:16:36.479> person<00:16:37.229> in<00:16:37.419> the<00:16:37.509> department.
00:16:38.079 --> 00:16:45.889
So<00:16:39.279> when<00:16:39.459> I<00:16:39.549> was<00:16:40.339> building<00:16:40.919> their<00:16:41.039> relationship,
<00:16:42.119>I<00:16:42.259> wanted<00:16:42.649> it<00:16:42.819> to<00:16:43.289> be,<00:16:44.519> that<00:16:44.969> they<00:16:45.399> become<00:16:45.739> each
00:16:45.889 --> 00:16:48.279
other's<00:16:46.489> safe<00:16:46.849> space<00:16:47.259> within<00:16:47.659> the<00:16:47.709> department.
00:16:48.349 --> 00:16:54.459
There<00:16:49.519> are<00:16:49.669> things<00:16:50.079> that<00:16:51.209> Samuel<00:16:51.789> faces
<00:16:52.239>uniquely<00:16:53.409> with<00:16:53.579> the<00:16:53.689> other<00:16:54.079> police
00:16:54.869 --> 00:16:58.389
detectives,<00:16:56.019> and<00:16:56.189> then<00:16:56.299> there's<00:16:56.459> also
<00:16:56.699>things<00:16:56.939> that<00:16:57.049> Harvey<00:16:57.349> faces<00:16:57.739> uniquely,
00:16:58.489 --> 00:17:00.309
in<00:16:58.599> terms<00:16:58.859> of,<00:16:59.029> he's<00:16:59.259> not<00:16:59.499> exactly
00:17:02.489 --> 00:17:09.259
I<00:17:02.599> don't<00:17:02.719> wanna<00:17:02.909> say<00:17:03.419> he's<00:17:04.269> harmed<00:17:04.909> directly<00:17:05.419> or
<00:17:05.539>in<00:17:05.669> the<00:17:05.779> same<00:17:06.039> way,<00:17:06.399> but<00:17:07.869> he<00:17:08.429> feels<00:17:08.739> out<00:17:08.879> of<00:17:08.989> place
00:17:09.259 --> 00:17:15.119
in<00:17:09.349> that<00:17:09.529> department<00:17:10.079> in<00:17:10.219> his<00:17:10.359> own<00:17:10.529> ways,<00:17:11.189> and
<00:17:11.759>I<00:17:11.889> do<00:17:12.469> believe<00:17:12.999> that<00:17:13.619> them<00:17:13.879> getting<00:17:14.319> to<00:17:14.639> open<00:17:14.939> up
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:20.779
to<00:17:15.279> each<00:17:15.459> other<00:17:16.049> across<00:17:16.459> the<00:17:16.579> story,<00:17:17.239> helps<00:17:17.569> them
<00:17:17.739>develop<00:17:19.099> their<00:17:19.299> feelings<00:17:20.099> for<00:17:20.309> each<00:17:20.469> other,
00:17:20.779 --> 00:17:23.659
but<00:17:20.999> also<00:17:22.109> their<00:17:22.299> identity<00:17:22.789> as<00:17:22.979> themselves.
00:17:23.659 --> 00:17:29.189
I<00:17:23.739> feel<00:17:23.899> both<00:17:24.129> of<00:17:24.249> them<00:17:24.729> really<00:17:25.109> change<00:17:26.339> across
<00:17:26.749>the<00:17:26.869> story<00:17:27.419> as<00:17:27.599> far<00:17:27.879> as,<00:17:28.079> Well,<00:17:28.449> I<00:17:28.599> won't<00:17:28.839> spoil,
00:17:29.189 --> 00:17:34.609
but<00:17:30.249> I<00:17:30.479> do<00:17:30.659> feel<00:17:30.879> like<00:17:31.029> both<00:17:31.209> of<00:17:31.319> them<00:17:31.979> change<00:17:32.309> in
<00:17:32.429>significant<00:17:32.939> ways<00:17:33.729> throughout<00:17:33.979> the<00:17:34.029> story,<00:17:34.399> and
00:17:34.659 --> 00:17:36.609
they<00:17:34.909> are,<00:17:35.249> each<00:17:35.429> other's<00:17:35.689> reason<00:17:36.169> for<00:17:36.319> that.
00:17:38.089 --> 00:17:38.579
Nailah King: For<00:17:38.239> sure.
00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:41.599
I<00:17:38.719> really<00:17:39.049> liked<00:17:39.449> their<00:17:39.799> interplay
<00:17:40.349>because<00:17:40.639> again,<00:17:40.969> sometimes<00:17:41.349> it's...
00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:44.769
I'm<00:17:42.469> sorry,<00:17:42.689> it's<00:17:42.739> a<00:17:42.789> little<00:17:42.939> funny,
<00:17:43.259>and<00:17:43.419> other<00:17:43.659> times<00:17:44.019> it's<00:17:44.589> heartwarming-
00:17:44.969 --> 00:17:45.969
Kennedy Cole: No,<00:17:45.189> don't<00:17:45.579> apologize.
00:17:45.969 --> 00:17:48.299
Nailah King: And<00:17:46.009> sometimes<00:17:46.379> it's
<00:17:46.629>heartbreaking,<00:17:47.469> and<00:17:47.879> there's<00:17:48.129> just<00:17:48.259> a
00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:51.669
lot<00:17:48.599> going<00:17:48.879> on<00:17:48.979> with<00:17:49.089> their<00:17:49.209> dynamic,<00:17:49.749> so-
<00:17:49.909>Yeah<00:17:50.469> as<00:17:50.489> Nosy<00:17:50.659> Rosie,<00:17:51.019> I<00:17:51.069> had<00:17:51.269> to<00:17:51.319> ask.
00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:52.879
Kennedy Cole: No,<00:17:52.009> no,<00:17:52.249> please<00:17:52.549> do.
00:17:52.899 --> 00:17:56.719
I<00:17:53.009> love<00:17:53.239> them<00:17:53.369> so<00:17:53.559> much,<00:17:54.079> and<00:17:54.119> I'm<00:17:54.309> really<00:17:54.559> glad
<00:17:54.859>that<00:17:55.119> you<00:17:55.289> were<00:17:55.639> picking<00:17:55.919> up<00:17:56.039> on<00:17:56.159> that<00:17:56.359> too.
00:17:57.259 --> 00:17:57.759
Nailah King: Yeah.
00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:03.199
So<00:17:59.929> I<00:17:59.999> tried<00:18:00.259> to<00:18:00.329> steer<00:18:00.539> clear<00:18:00.719> as<00:18:00.819> much<00:18:00.959> of
<00:18:01.079>spoiler<00:18:01.669> territory<00:18:02.029> as<00:18:02.179> possible,<00:18:03.019> but-
00:18:03.269 --> 00:18:03.739
Kennedy Cole: Okay
00:18:04.089 --> 00:18:07.999
... Nailah King: the<00:18:04.279> idea<00:18:04.519> that<00:18:05.099> to<00:18:05.279> thrive
<00:18:05.639>in<00:18:05.739> this<00:18:05.889> society,<00:18:07.239> certainly<00:18:07.719> within
00:18:07.999 --> 00:18:12.419
the<00:18:08.089> book,<00:18:08.429> perhaps<00:18:08.889> outside,<00:18:09.649> amid<00:18:09.899> this
<00:18:10.139>encroaching<00:18:10.989> entity,<00:18:11.979> and<00:18:12.109> I'll<00:18:12.229> keep
00:18:12.419 --> 00:18:13.929
that<00:18:12.539> as<00:18:12.609> vague<00:18:12.829> as<00:18:12.939> possible-<00:18:13.649> Mm-hmm.
00:18:14.679 --> 00:18:17.929
is<00:18:14.849> that<00:18:14.969> we<00:18:15.049> don't<00:18:15.389> need
<00:18:15.879>community<00:18:16.759> or<00:18:16.939> to<00:18:17.069> feel<00:18:17.319> seen.
00:18:17.989 --> 00:18:21.679
I'm<00:18:18.239> just<00:18:18.449> speaking<00:18:18.919> specifically
<00:18:19.419>about<00:18:19.589> a<00:18:19.629> scene<00:18:20.019> where<00:18:21.109> that's<00:18:21.329> basically
00:18:21.679 --> 00:18:24.399
alluded<00:18:21.979> to,<00:18:22.179> that-<00:18:22.479> Mm-hmm<00:18:23.129> ... someone
<00:18:23.189>can<00:18:23.219> leave<00:18:23.379> their<00:18:23.479> wife<00:18:23.669> behind<00:18:24.169> because,
00:18:24.609 --> 00:18:24.989
Kennedy Cole: Mm-hmm
00:18:24.989 --> 00:18:25.339
... Nailah King: they're<00:18:25.069> good.
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:32.329
But<00:18:26.509> also,<00:18:27.579> I<00:18:27.739> don't<00:18:28.739> think<00:18:29.069> throughout
<00:18:29.339>the<00:18:29.429> novel<00:18:30.209> that<00:18:31.679> Harvey<00:18:32.159> and
00:18:32.329 --> 00:18:33.729
Samuel<00:18:32.829> really<00:18:33.119> believe<00:18:33.539> that.
00:18:33.729 --> 00:18:36.369
I<00:18:33.829> think<00:18:34.059> they<00:18:34.239> believe
<00:18:34.719>that<00:18:35.279> you<00:18:35.459> need<00:18:35.729> someone.
00:18:36.679 --> 00:18:36.859
Mm-hmm.
00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:40.899
So<00:18:37.439> what<00:18:37.699> ways<00:18:38.099> does<00:18:38.279> this<00:18:38.539> belief
<00:18:38.949>kind<00:18:39.119> of<00:18:39.239> push<00:18:39.739> Harvey<00:18:40.159> and<00:18:40.339> Samuel
00:18:40.929 --> 00:18:43.299
further<00:18:42.069> into<00:18:42.359> the<00:18:42.439> margins?
00:18:43.659 --> 00:18:44.019
Kennedy Cole: Hmm.
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:51.059
Yeah,<00:18:45.149> so<00:18:46.259> I<00:18:46.549> feel<00:18:46.759> like<00:18:48.209> I<00:18:48.379> like<00:18:48.649> what
<00:18:48.759>you<00:18:48.909> said<00:18:49.199> about<00:18:49.709> how<00:18:50.029> Harvey<00:18:50.409> and<00:18:50.619> Samuel
00:18:51.109 --> 00:18:52.649
don't<00:18:51.399> exactly<00:18:51.859> believe<00:18:52.129> this<00:18:52.309> idea.
00:18:52.649 --> 00:18:54.919
It's<00:18:52.819> really<00:18:53.089> hard<00:18:53.249> to<00:18:53.359> answer
<00:18:53.539>this<00:18:53.649> question<00:18:53.949> without<00:18:54.249> spoiling.
00:18:54.969 --> 00:18:55.679
I'm<00:18:55.139> just<00:18:55.239> gonna<00:18:55.409> talk.
00:18:56.439 --> 00:19:03.389
I<00:18:56.589> feel<00:18:58.799> like<00:18:58.829> Samuel's<00:18:58.899> actions<00:19:00.369> relay
<00:19:00.909>that<00:19:01.149> in<00:19:01.269> truth<00:19:02.229> he<00:19:02.459> doesn't<00:19:02.769> believe<00:19:03.059> that.
00:19:03.399 --> 00:19:07.239
But<00:19:03.639> verbally<00:19:04.639> what<00:19:04.819> he's<00:19:04.979> saying
<00:19:05.349>he<00:19:05.479> believes<00:19:06.109> is<00:19:06.609> the<00:19:06.759> opposite.
00:19:07.239 --> 00:19:11.449
He<00:19:07.429> leans<00:19:07.699> into<00:19:07.959> this<00:19:08.179> idea<00:19:08.469> of<00:19:08.639> "Maybe<00:19:08.899> I<00:19:09.019> don't
<00:19:09.279>need<00:19:09.469> people.<00:19:09.779> Maybe<00:19:10.649> it's<00:19:10.849> better<00:19:11.199> for<00:19:11.309> me
00:19:11.449 --> 00:19:19.169
to<00:19:11.539> be<00:19:11.689> alone<00:19:12.899> and<00:19:13.449> be<00:19:13.599> accepted<00:19:14.329> and<00:19:14.529> loved,"
<00:19:15.309>because<00:19:16.039> that's<00:19:17.699> something<00:19:18.159> that<00:19:18.339> he's<00:19:18.879> had
00:19:19.169 --> 00:19:21.559
to<00:19:19.259> fight<00:19:19.529> for<00:19:20.209> a<00:19:20.329> lot<00:19:20.869> throughout<00:19:21.099> the<00:19:21.139> story.
00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:27.589
So,<00:19:22.789> when<00:19:22.909> you<00:19:22.999> think<00:19:23.259> about<00:19:24.989> their
<00:19:25.279>queerness,<00:19:26.079> when<00:19:26.219> you<00:19:26.319> think<00:19:26.569> about,<00:19:27.159> Samuel
00:19:27.589 --> 00:19:33.129
being<00:19:27.979> the<00:19:28.179> only<00:19:28.389> Black<00:19:29.279> detective<00:19:29.809> in<00:19:29.929> the
<00:19:29.999>department,<00:19:31.329> they<00:19:31.749> are<00:19:32.039> already<00:19:32.619> pushed<00:19:32.949> into
00:19:33.129 --> 00:19:35.329
the<00:19:33.189> margins<00:19:33.909> because<00:19:34.259> of<00:19:34.409> those<00:19:34.639> things.
00:19:35.829 --> 00:19:40.139
And,<00:19:36.309> on<00:19:36.439> the<00:19:36.539> one<00:19:36.759> hand<00:19:37.129> it's<00:19:37.719> the<00:19:37.899> other
<00:19:38.099>detectives<00:19:38.899> pushing<00:19:39.259> them<00:19:39.379> into<00:19:39.539> the<00:19:39.589> margins,
00:19:40.139 --> 00:19:44.599
and<00:19:40.289> on<00:19:40.439> another<00:19:40.849> it's<00:19:41.229> Samuel<00:19:42.399> choosing<00:19:42.829> to
<00:19:42.949>keep<00:19:43.139> himself<00:19:43.549> in<00:19:43.629> the<00:19:43.729> margins<00:19:44.179> because<00:19:44.469> he's
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:46.489
afraid<00:19:44.909> of<00:19:45.029> opening<00:19:45.389> up<00:19:45.539> to<00:19:45.669> other<00:19:45.949> people.
00:19:47.179 --> 00:19:51.989
And,<00:19:47.879> when<00:19:48.039> it<00:19:48.129> comes<00:19:48.379> to<00:19:48.439> this<00:19:48.639> idea<00:19:49.129> of,
<00:19:49.819>like<00:19:50.039> you<00:19:50.139> said,<00:19:50.379> in<00:19:51.229> society<00:19:51.759> that<00:19:51.889> we
00:19:51.989 --> 00:19:57.759
don't<00:19:52.259> need<00:19:52.829> other<00:19:53.079> people,<00:19:53.479> that<00:19:53.699> like
<00:19:53.919>it's<00:19:54.059> okay<00:19:54.449> to<00:19:55.979> be<00:19:56.259> alone<00:19:56.939> because<00:19:57.509> that's
00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.509
safe,<00:19:58.919> it's<00:19:59.089> a<00:19:59.159> really<00:19:59.559> tempting<00:20:00.109> offer.
00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:04.719
You're<00:20:00.689> safe,<00:20:01.109> but<00:20:02.269> you're<00:20:02.429> by<00:20:02.579> yourself
<00:20:03.109>and<00:20:03.369> what<00:20:03.529> does<00:20:03.699> that<00:20:03.909> look<00:20:04.159> like<00:20:04.399> in,
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:06.529
in<00:20:05.269> the<00:20:05.359> grand<00:20:05.669> scheme<00:20:05.949> of<00:20:06.079> things?
00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:11.539
So<00:20:07.319> that<00:20:07.479> is<00:20:07.619> an<00:20:07.759> idea<00:20:08.079> I<00:20:08.179> really<00:20:08.919> was
<00:20:09.139>trying<00:20:09.399> to<00:20:09.499> explore,<00:20:10.639> especially<00:20:11.279> toward
00:20:11.539 --> 00:20:13.969
the<00:20:11.619> climax,<00:20:12.819> that<00:20:12.979> you<00:20:13.299> alluded<00:20:13.689> to.
00:20:14.229 --> 00:20:15.659
I<00:20:14.299> hope<00:20:14.799> that<00:20:14.969> answered<00:20:15.109> your<00:20:15.239> question.
00:20:15.989 --> 00:20:16.949
I<00:20:16.009> feel<00:20:16.159> like<00:20:16.269> I<00:20:16.309> was<00:20:16.459> kinda<00:20:16.629> rambling.
00:20:20.659 --> 00:20:23.569
Why<00:20:20.949> aren't<00:20:21.219> there<00:20:21.409> more<00:20:21.739> beauty
<00:20:22.019>horror<00:20:22.259> stories<00:20:22.709> about<00:20:22.969> Black<00:20:23.189> women?
00:20:24.259 --> 00:20:27.959
It's<00:20:24.489> a<00:20:24.549> question<00:20:24.949> I<00:20:25.049> explored<00:20:25.699> in<00:20:25.869> my
<00:20:26.009>featured<00:20:26.459> essay,<00:20:26.939> Beauty<00:20:27.279> in<00:20:27.399> the<00:20:27.589> Eye<00:20:27.879> of
00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:32.909
the<00:20:28.179> Oppressor,<00:20:29.199> inside<00:20:29.679> the<00:20:29.909> anthology
<00:20:30.889>Dead<00:20:31.109> Pretty:<00:20:31.729> Beauty<00:20:32.069> in<00:20:32.179> the<00:20:32.259> Horror<00:20:32.449> Genre.
00:20:33.459 --> 00:20:36.689
Published<00:20:33.889> by<00:20:34.059> indie<00:20:34.259> zine<00:20:34.569> creators
<00:20:35.209>The<00:20:35.369> Nottingham<00:20:35.839> Horror<00:20:36.139> Collective,
00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:41.989
AKA<00:20:37.519> Ruth<00:20:37.729> Skretek<00:20:38.439> and<00:20:38.639> Emily<00:20:38.949> Malone,<00:20:39.709> I
<00:20:39.879>discuss<00:20:40.399> how<00:20:40.649> Black<00:20:40.919> women's<00:20:41.239> rage<00:20:41.649> as<00:20:41.779> seen
00:20:41.989 --> 00:20:46.839
in<00:20:42.089> beauty<00:20:42.339> horror<00:20:42.709> is<00:20:43.279> both<00:20:43.659> a<00:20:43.869> response
<00:20:44.369>to<00:20:44.769> and<00:20:45.019> a<00:20:45.129> tool<00:20:45.399> against<00:20:45.999> misogynoir.
00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:51.539
Order<00:20:47.559> your<00:20:47.849> copy<00:20:48.319> at
<00:20:48.619>thenottinghamhorrorkollective.co.uk
00:20:51.789 --> 00:20:56.039
to<00:20:51.929> read<00:20:52.179> this<00:20:52.519> and<00:20:52.689> 24<00:20:53.209> other<00:20:53.429> incredible
<00:20:53.979>essays<00:20:54.419> that<00:20:54.559> explore<00:20:55.049> beauty,<00:20:55.499> aging,
00:20:56.329 --> 00:20:58.169
and<00:20:56.619> power<00:20:57.039> within<00:20:57.379> the<00:20:57.479> horror<00:20:57.679> genre<00:20:58.149> now.
00:21:00.071 --> 00:21:04.331
Before<00:21:00.301> we<00:21:00.441> get<00:21:00.651> back<00:21:00.901> into<00:21:01.241> today's<00:21:01.611> episode,
<00:21:02.651>here's<00:21:03.101> how<00:21:03.391> we<00:21:03.521> keep<00:21:03.701> the<00:21:03.791> show<00:21:03.981> running.
00:21:04.781 --> 00:21:07.631
Talk<00:21:05.011> Your<00:21:05.121> Lit<00:21:05.291> Podcast<00:21:05.871> is<00:21:06.171> a
<00:21:06.431>one-woman<00:21:06.961> production<00:21:07.331> team.
00:21:07.911 --> 00:21:10.061
I'm<00:21:08.111> not<00:21:08.271> backed<00:21:08.641> by<00:21:08.831> a<00:21:08.881> giant<00:21:09.161> media<00:21:09.461> company.
00:21:10.141 --> 00:21:13.801
It's<00:21:10.351> just<00:21:10.601> me,<00:21:11.021> the<00:21:11.131> cat,<00:21:11.731> a<00:21:11.821> budget
<00:21:12.151>mic,<00:21:12.481> and<00:21:12.731> way<00:21:12.951> too<00:21:13.091> many<00:21:13.271> coffees.
00:21:14.461 --> 00:21:18.621
I<00:21:14.571> want<00:21:14.821> to<00:21:14.931> keep<00:21:15.251> Talk<00:21:15.491> Your<00:21:15.621> Lit<00:21:16.071> Podcast
<00:21:16.731>ad<00:21:17.031> free<00:21:17.441> and<00:21:17.621> community<00:21:18.111> funded.
00:21:18.961 --> 00:21:22.231
So<00:21:19.201> if<00:21:19.431> you're<00:21:19.581> loving<00:21:19.831> the<00:21:19.901> show
<00:21:20.361>and<00:21:20.571> want<00:21:20.781> more<00:21:21.061> seasons,<00:21:21.841> consider
00:21:22.231 --> 00:21:24.131
buying<00:21:22.521> me<00:21:22.631> a<00:21:22.691> coffee<00:21:23.351> over<00:21:23.591> on<00:21:23.711> Ko-fi.
00:21:24.671 --> 00:21:28.451
Unlike<00:21:25.001> other<00:21:25.191> platforms,<00:21:25.901> Ko-fi<00:21:26.271> won't
<00:21:26.531>take<00:21:26.711> a<00:21:26.811> massive<00:21:27.221> cut<00:21:27.691> of<00:21:27.851> your<00:21:28.001> support.
00:21:28.801 --> 00:21:32.521
Every<00:21:29.061> dollar<00:21:29.321> you<00:21:29.441> contribute<00:21:29.991> goes<00:21:30.241> into
<00:21:30.501>maintaining<00:21:30.971> my<00:21:31.081> tech<00:21:31.301> and<00:21:31.441> tools<00:21:32.081> that<00:21:32.241> help<00:21:32.411> me
00:21:32.521 --> 00:21:35.031
create<00:21:32.851> high<00:21:33.061> quality<00:21:33.431> content<00:21:34.041> every<00:21:34.291> episode.
00:21:35.241 --> 00:21:38.581
Make<00:21:35.581> a<00:21:35.761> one-time<00:21:36.441> or<00:21:36.661> monthly
<00:21:36.981>contribution<00:21:37.651> for<00:21:37.791> continued<00:21:38.161> support.
00:21:38.691 --> 00:21:39.261
It's<00:21:38.831> up<00:21:38.961> to<00:21:39.041> you.
00:21:39.901 --> 00:21:44.561
Head<00:21:40.101> to<00:21:40.231> ko-fi.com/nailakingwrites,
<00:21:43.121>or<00:21:43.281> click<00:21:43.561> the<00:21:43.671> link<00:21:43.961> in<00:21:44.091> the<00:21:44.181> show<00:21:44.381> notes.
00:21:44.561 --> 00:21:47.921
A<00:21:45.331> big<00:21:45.631> thank<00:21:45.911> you<00:21:46.041> to<00:21:46.161> everyone
<00:21:46.501>who<00:21:46.651> has<00:21:46.731> supported<00:21:47.201> so<00:21:47.401> far.
00:21:48.481 --> 00:21:49.971
Now<00:21:48.621> let's<00:21:48.821> dive<00:21:49.061> back<00:21:49.271> into<00:21:49.411> the<00:21:49.551> episode.
00:21:50.946 --> 00:21:52.906
Nailah King: No,<00:21:51.116> you<00:21:51.236> answered<00:21:51.466> the
<00:21:51.516>question<00:21:51.966> perfectly,<00:21:52.346> which<00:21:52.536> They're<00:21:52.716> kind
00:21:52.906 --> 00:21:56.446
of<00:21:53.046> self...<00:21:53.586> I<00:21:53.706> don't<00:21:53.756> wanna<00:21:53.846> say<00:21:54.056> self-pushing
<00:21:54.866>them,<00:21:55.066> but<00:21:55.226> I<00:21:55.366> think<00:21:55.636> like<00:21:55.856> they're<00:21:56.026> backing
00:21:56.466 --> 00:22:00.476
further<00:21:56.796> into<00:21:57.016> that<00:21:57.176> corner<00:21:57.526> because
<00:21:58.606>there's<00:21:59.026> obviously<00:21:59.406> the<00:21:59.496> pursuit<00:21:59.906> of<00:22:00.026> safety,
00:22:00.476 --> 00:22:03.936
which,<00:22:00.836> I<00:22:01.056> understand<00:22:01.436> why<00:22:01.526> people<00:22:01.786> who<00:22:01.966> are
<00:22:02.086>in<00:22:02.226> the<00:22:02.306> margins<00:22:02.726> would<00:22:03.056> pursue<00:22:03.446> safety.
00:22:04.106 --> 00:22:04.666
It's<00:22:04.366> safe.
00:22:04.906 --> 00:22:05.606
Safe<00:22:05.146> is<00:22:05.236> in<00:22:05.316> the<00:22:05.366> word.
00:22:06.016 --> 00:22:06.466
Kennedy Cole: Right
00:22:14.144 --> 00:22:19.664
Nailah King: But<00:22:14.484> also,<00:22:16.674> I<00:22:16.874> also<00:22:17.144> think
<00:22:17.454>there<00:22:17.584> are<00:22:17.694> parts<00:22:17.934> of<00:22:18.054> the<00:22:18.124> book<00:22:18.554> and<00:22:19.534> the
00:22:19.664 --> 00:22:26.044
narrative<00:22:20.164> where,<00:22:21.014> the<00:22:21.274> alternatives
<00:22:23.064>presented<00:22:23.724> are<00:22:23.884> not<00:22:24.744> appealing<00:22:25.574> at<00:22:25.744> any
00:22:26.044 --> 00:22:30.504
way<00:22:26.384> or<00:22:26.774> accessible<00:22:27.514> because,<00:22:28.444> of<00:22:28.844> those
<00:22:29.214>kind<00:22:29.404> of<00:22:29.504> intersections<00:22:30.104> that<00:22:30.224> they<00:22:30.344> both
00:22:30.514 --> 00:22:32.914
hold,<00:22:30.954> queerness,<00:22:32.124> race,<00:22:32.424> et<00:22:32.514> cetera.
00:22:33.204 --> 00:22:42.062
So<00:22:33.524> I<00:22:33.604> think,<00:22:34.224> yeah,<00:22:34.834> the<00:22:34.974> whole<00:22:35.244> idea<00:22:36.004> of<00:22:36.534> this
<00:22:36.744>kind<00:22:36.994> of<00:22:38.094> individualist<00:22:40.812> society,<00:22:41.842> and<00:22:42.002> I
00:22:42.072 --> 00:22:46.082
think<00:22:42.252> some<00:22:42.372> of<00:22:42.422> the<00:22:42.522> other<00:22:43.122> officers<00:22:43.742> do<00:22:44.012> push
<00:22:44.372>that,<00:22:45.102> which<00:22:45.322> is,<00:22:45.512> I<00:22:45.582> can't<00:22:45.732> remember<00:22:45.992> the
00:22:46.082 --> 00:22:49.532
character's<00:22:46.492> name,<00:22:46.692> but<00:22:46.792> the<00:22:46.882> really<00:22:47.112> annoying
<00:22:47.462>one<00:22:47.912> is<00:22:48.092> always<00:22:48.322> pushing<00:22:48.682> individuals.
00:22:49.752 --> 00:22:50.282
Kennedy Cole: Mm-hmm.
00:22:50.532 --> 00:22:51.152
There's<00:22:50.712> a<00:22:50.782> few.
00:22:58.154 --> 00:22:58.784
Nailah King: There's<00:22:58.384> a<00:22:58.434> few.
00:22:59.154 --> 00:23:02.174
But<00:22:59.464> pushing,<00:23:00.174> always<00:23:00.404> being<00:23:00.564> out
<00:23:00.724>for<00:23:00.804> yourself<00:23:01.444> and<00:23:01.654> like<00:23:01.804> not<00:23:02.014> looking
00:23:02.174 --> 00:23:05.334
out<00:23:02.274> for<00:23:02.344> your<00:23:02.464> community,<00:23:03.274> and<00:23:03.474> they
<00:23:03.574>are<00:23:03.974> sometimes<00:23:04.324> rewarded<00:23:04.854> for<00:23:05.004> that.
00:23:05.514 --> 00:23:11.124
I<00:23:05.654> think<00:23:05.954> that's<00:23:06.694> also<00:23:07.044> something<00:23:07.324> that<00:23:07.474> you
<00:23:07.594>did<00:23:07.784> really<00:23:07.984> well<00:23:08.484> in<00:23:09.734> the<00:23:09.854> novel<00:23:10.314> is<00:23:10.614> looking<00:23:11.004> at
00:23:11.124 --> 00:23:14.164
those<00:23:11.294> different<00:23:11.624> tensions<00:23:12.084> of<00:23:12.284> it's<00:23:12.414> actually
<00:23:12.604>better<00:23:12.774> if<00:23:12.864> you're<00:23:12.934> individual,<00:23:13.564> but<00:23:13.754> there's
00:23:14.374 --> 00:23:16.684
the<00:23:14.524> cost<00:23:14.904> of<00:23:15.314> community<00:23:15.774> is<00:23:15.864> inconvenience.
00:23:17.684 --> 00:23:22.014
Or<00:23:18.044> it<00:23:18.134> may<00:23:18.274> be<00:23:18.404> in<00:23:18.494> this<00:23:18.694> case,<00:23:18.974> maybe<00:23:19.174> the
<00:23:19.274>some<00:23:19.434> of<00:23:19.524> that<00:23:19.754> loss<00:23:20.064> of<00:23:20.184> safety<00:23:20.814> and<00:23:21.564> the<00:23:21.694> like.
00:23:22.014 --> 00:23:23.424
So<00:23:22.354> I<00:23:22.384> thought<00:23:22.574> that<00:23:22.684> was<00:23:23.004> well<00:23:23.194> done.
00:23:24.944 --> 00:23:25.464
Kennedy Cole: Thank<00:23:25.174> you.
00:23:25.614 --> 00:23:26.284
That<00:23:25.654> means<00:23:25.904> a<00:23:25.974> lot.
00:23:55.998 --> 00:23:59.328
Nailah King: So<00:23:56.808> there<00:23:57.028> are<00:23:57.148> themes<00:23:57.718> around
<00:23:58.008>surveillance,<00:23:58.498> and<00:23:58.708> I'm<00:23:58.898> not<00:23:59.038> talking
00:23:59.328 --> 00:24:02.928
about<00:23:59.538> like<00:23:59.668> video<00:23:59.938> surveillance<00:24:00.438> for<00:24:00.558> the
<00:24:00.758>listeners,<00:24:01.458> but<00:24:01.828> being,<00:24:02.388> the<00:24:02.488> Noser<00:24:02.738> being
00:24:02.928 --> 00:24:09.348
surveilled<00:24:03.788> through<00:24:05.018> like<00:24:05.458> departments<00:24:06.338> and,
<00:24:06.948>maybe<00:24:07.398> other<00:24:07.598> worldly<00:24:07.978> things,<00:24:08.728> and<00:24:08.958> power
00:24:09.348 --> 00:24:15.378
are<00:24:09.498> intertwined<00:24:10.258> in<00:24:10.348> the<00:24:10.448> novel<00:24:10.958> and<00:24:11.178> seen<00:24:12.368> as
<00:24:12.948>necessary<00:24:13.438> tools<00:24:14.088> to<00:24:14.398> control<00:24:14.778> communities
00:24:15.398 --> 00:24:16.958
that<00:24:15.538> the<00:24:15.618> powers<00:24:16.068> of<00:24:16.158> be<00:24:16.448> do<00:24:16.578> not<00:24:16.708> like.
00:24:17.018 --> 00:24:18.088
Wonder<00:24:17.258> where<00:24:17.378> we've<00:24:17.508> seen<00:24:17.638> that<00:24:17.738> before.
00:24:18.388 --> 00:24:23.778
What<00:24:18.808> do<00:24:18.938> you<00:24:19.138> hope<00:24:19.558> readers<00:24:20.098> learn<00:24:20.738> or
<00:24:20.828>better<00:24:21.058> understand<00:24:22.258> about<00:24:22.628> being<00:24:23.328> othered
00:24:23.808 --> 00:24:26.208
and<00:24:23.998> trying<00:24:24.348> to<00:24:25.038> thrive<00:24:25.468> in<00:24:25.628> spite<00:24:25.868> of<00:24:25.978> it?
00:24:27.328 --> 00:24:29.918
Kennedy Cole: I<00:24:27.408> feel<00:24:27.628> like<00:24:27.858> that's
<00:24:28.048>a<00:24:28.188> two-part<00:24:28.658> question,<00:24:29.218> to<00:24:29.328> be<00:24:29.488> honest.
00:24:29.968 --> 00:24:35.328
I<00:24:30.088> feel<00:24:31.278> hearing<00:24:31.748> the<00:24:31.838> first<00:24:32.098> sentence
<00:24:32.618>of<00:24:32.998> the<00:24:33.608> powers<00:24:33.988> that<00:24:34.158> be<00:24:34.438> using<00:24:34.778> control
00:24:35.328 --> 00:24:40.968
and,<00:24:36.478> othering<00:24:37.088> people<00:24:37.628> is<00:24:37.828> its<00:24:38.168> own,<00:24:39.038> Just
<00:24:39.288>makes<00:24:39.458> me<00:24:39.608> feel<00:24:39.818> all<00:24:40.098> doom<00:24:40.388> and<00:24:40.558> gloomy.
00:24:40.978 --> 00:24:44.438
Just,<00:24:41.258> I<00:24:41.378> just<00:24:41.568> need<00:24:41.728> a<00:24:41.778> second<00:24:42.128> to
<00:24:43.018>process<00:24:43.438> that,<00:24:43.698> to<00:24:43.788> be<00:24:43.938> honest.
00:24:44.668 --> 00:24:50.888
In<00:24:44.818> terms<00:24:45.148> of<00:24:45.938> feeling<00:24:46.398> othered<00:24:46.908> and<00:24:47.178> what
<00:24:47.998>that<00:24:48.268> means<00:24:48.728> for<00:24:48.958> us,<00:24:49.358> I<00:24:49.458> think<00:24:50.608> you're
00:24:50.888 --> 00:24:56.568
right<00:24:51.308> that,<00:24:52.868> I'm<00:24:53.058> just<00:24:53.208> gonna<00:24:53.378> say<00:24:53.618> it,
<00:24:53.748>the<00:24:53.858> government<00:24:54.358> wants<00:24:54.638> us<00:24:54.878> to<00:24:55.018> feel<00:24:56.088> alone.
00:24:56.578 --> 00:25:01.278
They<00:24:56.748> want<00:24:56.978> us<00:24:57.148> to<00:24:57.298> think<00:24:57.638> that<00:24:57.818> we're<00:24:57.988> the<00:24:58.128> only
<00:24:58.368>people<00:24:58.878> who<00:24:59.008> are<00:24:59.148> feeling<00:25:00.278> the<00:25:00.388> way<00:25:00.598> that<00:25:00.728> we<00:25:00.898> do.
00:25:01.298 --> 00:25:03.808
They<00:25:01.428> want<00:25:01.618> us<00:25:01.858> to<00:25:02.998> feel<00:25:03.298> afraid.
00:25:03.828 --> 00:25:06.518
They<00:25:03.938> want<00:25:04.138> us<00:25:04.298> to<00:25:04.518> be<00:25:04.688> quiet<00:25:05.138> and<00:25:05.548> stop<00:25:05.888> looking.
00:25:07.188 --> 00:25:11.698
And<00:25:08.568> a<00:25:08.838> great<00:25:09.218> way<00:25:09.378> to<00:25:09.458> do<00:25:09.598> that<00:25:09.768> is<00:25:09.948> to
<00:25:10.038>make<00:25:10.238> us<00:25:10.338> feel<00:25:10.608> othered,<00:25:11.058> like<00:25:11.338> we're<00:25:11.598> in
00:25:11.698 --> 00:25:16.008
the<00:25:11.788> minority,<00:25:12.458> like<00:25:12.728> we're<00:25:12.958> the<00:25:13.098> only
<00:25:13.358>ones<00:25:14.638> feeling<00:25:15.058> the<00:25:15.158> way<00:25:15.318> that<00:25:15.428> we<00:25:15.568> do.
00:25:16.418 --> 00:25:22.848
And,<00:25:17.888> to<00:25:18.028> the<00:25:18.178> people<00:25:18.598> who<00:25:19.478> are<00:25:20.258> feeling
<00:25:20.618>that<00:25:20.778> way<00:25:21.008> or<00:25:21.508> are<00:25:21.878> understanding<00:25:22.538> that
00:25:22.958 --> 00:25:26.508
this<00:25:23.158> is<00:25:23.328> literally<00:25:23.798> a<00:25:23.848> tactic<00:25:24.638> that
<00:25:24.848>the<00:25:24.948> government<00:25:25.378> uses<00:25:25.808> to<00:25:25.978> make<00:25:26.218> us
00:25:27.328 --> 00:25:32.108
sit<00:25:27.608> down<00:25:27.948> and<00:25:28.328> let<00:25:28.548> the<00:25:28.628> things<00:25:28.948> happen
<00:25:29.298>around<00:25:29.668> us<00:25:30.698> is<00:25:30.938> that<00:25:31.418> that's<00:25:31.678> not<00:25:31.798> true.
00:25:32.208 --> 00:25:36.418
And<00:25:32.538> this<00:25:32.658> is<00:25:32.768> something<00:25:33.118> that<00:25:33.248> Samuel
<00:25:34.288>comes<00:25:34.608> to<00:25:34.708> learn<00:25:35.548> in<00:25:35.718> his<00:25:35.868> own<00:25:36.048> way,
00:25:36.948 --> 00:25:40.068
and<00:25:37.088> also<00:25:37.368> something<00:25:37.738> I'm<00:25:38.108> learning
<00:25:38.458>myself,<00:25:38.958> you<00:25:39.048> know,<00:25:39.178> at<00:25:39.278> the<00:25:39.378> same<00:25:39.598> time.
00:25:40.608 --> 00:25:44.178
As<00:25:40.888> these<00:25:41.948> things<00:25:42.268> happen<00:25:42.608> in
<00:25:42.698>the<00:25:42.798> world,<00:25:43.258> we<00:25:43.548> need<00:25:43.768> to<00:25:43.868> remind
00:25:44.178 --> 00:25:47.838
ourselves<00:25:44.718> that<00:25:45.828> we<00:25:46.298> are<00:25:47.028> not<00:25:47.408> other.
00:25:48.008 --> 00:25:53.768
We<00:25:48.228> all<00:25:48.428> exist<00:25:48.788> as<00:25:48.928> one<00:25:49.158> body,<00:25:50.058> and<00:25:50.818> this
<00:25:50.998>is<00:25:51.138> something<00:25:51.508> that<00:25:52.898> we<00:25:53.188> need<00:25:53.348> to<00:25:53.548> pay
00:25:53.768 --> 00:25:56.438
attention<00:25:54.238> to<00:25:54.538> and<00:25:55.378> stand<00:25:55.678> up<00:25:55.858> for.
00:25:57.068 --> 00:26:01.358
Not<00:25:57.288> to<00:25:57.358> be<00:25:57.478> super<00:25:57.778> vague,<00:25:58.258> but<00:25:59.628> I
<00:25:59.778>feel<00:26:00.008> like<00:26:00.218> you<00:26:00.328> can<00:26:00.518> understand<00:26:01.158> what
00:26:01.358 --> 00:26:03.808
I'm<00:26:01.618> implying<00:26:02.738> when<00:26:03.008> I<00:26:03.148> say<00:26:03.378> that.
00:26:04.048 --> 00:26:12.168
I<00:26:04.568> think<00:26:05.648> a<00:26:05.748> lot<00:26:06.068> of<00:26:06.608> that<00:26:08.148> othering<00:26:08.638> that
<00:26:08.828>happens<00:26:09.508> is<00:26:09.908> to<00:26:10.888> keep<00:26:11.168> us<00:26:11.388> controlled.
00:26:12.898 --> 00:26:17.258
And,<00:26:13.498> when<00:26:13.658> you<00:26:13.798> understand<00:26:14.498> that,
<00:26:14.998>it's<00:26:15.218> a<00:26:15.288> lot<00:26:15.578> easier<00:26:16.118> to<00:26:17.008> also
00:26:17.258 --> 00:26:20.288
understand<00:26:17.768> that<00:26:17.928> that<00:26:19.458> isn't<00:26:19.848> true.
00:26:20.388 --> 00:26:29.768
So,<00:26:21.998> very<00:26:22.298> vague<00:26:22.678> answer,<00:26:23.188> but<00:26:24.518> point<00:26:24.798> of<00:26:24.878> all
<00:26:25.108>that<00:26:25.448> is<00:26:25.628> to<00:26:25.778> say,<00:26:27.488> that<00:26:28.248> we're<00:26:28.768> each<00:26:29.088> not<00:26:29.328> alone.
00:26:29.858 --> 00:26:32.668
I<00:26:29.918> feel<00:26:30.078> like<00:26:31.008> especially<00:26:31.368> the
<00:26:31.458>Black<00:26:31.688> community,<00:26:32.138> we<00:26:32.258> all<00:26:32.428> need
00:26:32.668 --> 00:26:35.458
to<00:26:33.648> be<00:26:33.898> united<00:26:34.618> in<00:26:34.768> this<00:26:35.008> way.
00:26:36.248 --> 00:26:37.058
That's<00:26:36.468> my<00:26:36.608> answer.
00:27:02.902 --> 00:27:03.412
Nailah King: Yeah.
00:27:03.502 --> 00:27:11.242
And<00:27:03.672> I<00:27:03.762> think,<00:27:04.202> to<00:27:04.352> be<00:27:04.492> clear,<00:27:04.862> the<00:27:05.002> book<00:27:05.402> ends<00:27:05.792> in
<00:27:05.962>ways<00:27:06.442> that<00:27:06.642> are<00:27:07.312> hopeful<00:27:08.182> and<00:27:09.702> heartwarming<00:27:10.632> and
00:27:13.494 --> 00:27:17.404
I<00:27:13.604> like<00:27:13.814> to<00:27:13.944> think<00:27:14.244> they're<00:27:14.434> thriving
<00:27:15.974>beyond<00:27:16.314> the<00:27:16.404> events<00:27:16.704> of<00:27:16.864> the<00:27:16.974> novel.
00:27:17.404 --> 00:27:22.384
Ended<00:27:17.824> really<00:27:18.104> nicely<00:27:18.684> in<00:27:18.824> ways<00:27:19.134> that
<00:27:19.264>don't<00:27:19.424> feel<00:27:20.344> cliched<00:27:21.054> or<00:27:21.134> trite<00:27:21.914> because
00:27:22.384 --> 00:27:25.324
of<00:27:22.574> that,<00:27:22.844> connection<00:27:23.334> they<00:27:23.434> have
<00:27:23.614>with<00:27:23.794> each<00:27:23.974> other<00:27:24.314> is<00:27:24.494> very<00:27:24.834> sweet.
00:27:26.574 --> 00:27:26.894
Kennedy Cole: Thank<00:27:26.874> you.
00:27:27.274 --> 00:27:27.994
And<00:27:27.504> they<00:27:27.644> are.
00:27:40.378 --> 00:27:42.968
Nailah King: Even<00:27:40.688> as<00:27:40.838> a<00:27:40.908> doomer,
<00:27:41.378>I<00:27:41.478> really<00:27:41.738> liked<00:27:42.108> the<00:27:42.248> way<00:27:42.618> that<00:27:42.818> the
00:27:43.008 --> 00:27:49.288
novel<00:27:43.478> ended<00:27:45.208> because,<00:27:45.488> yeah,<00:27:45.648> I<00:27:45.728> think
<00:27:47.048>Samuel<00:27:47.978> and<00:27:48.378> Harvey<00:27:48.688> show<00:27:48.888> us<00:27:48.998> that<00:27:49.148> it's
00:27:49.288 --> 00:27:51.478
possible,<00:27:50.248> and<00:27:50.358> I<00:27:50.438> love<00:27:50.698> that<00:27:50.898> so<00:27:51.038> much.
00:27:53.338 --> 00:27:54.108
Kennedy Cole: Absolutely.
00:27:54.798 --> 00:27:55.328
Thank<00:27:55.048> you
00:28:14.404 --> 00:28:18.794
Nailah King: That<00:28:14.594> was<00:28:14.734> my<00:28:14.854> last<00:28:15.094> question
<00:28:16.034>on<00:28:17.484> There<00:28:17.634> Used<00:28:17.794> to<00:28:17.844> Be<00:28:17.934> People<00:28:18.204> Here.
00:28:20.094 --> 00:28:25.034
What<00:28:20.444> is<00:28:20.664> a<00:28:20.764> genre<00:28:21.454> that<00:28:21.634> you<00:28:21.814> want<00:28:22.124> to
<00:28:22.584>explore<00:28:23.134> in<00:28:23.284> horror<00:28:23.774> or<00:28:24.224> speculative
00:28:25.294 --> 00:28:29.244
that<00:28:25.664> you<00:28:26.474> are<00:28:26.654> keen<00:28:27.024> to<00:28:27.154> explore<00:28:27.554> but
<00:28:27.714>you<00:28:27.784> haven't,<00:28:28.414> explored<00:28:28.774> it<00:28:28.854> yet?
00:28:30.374 --> 00:28:34.134
Kennedy Cole: Yeah,<00:28:30.904> so<00:28:31.354> I've<00:28:31.534> been
<00:28:31.724>really<00:28:31.974> wanting<00:28:32.314> to<00:28:32.494> write<00:28:33.024> a<00:28:33.114> Western.
00:28:34.184 --> 00:28:37.464
I<00:28:34.274> feel<00:28:34.444> like<00:28:34.614> Westerns<00:28:34.964> don't<00:28:35.144> have
<00:28:35.374>to<00:28:35.464> be<00:28:35.604> horror<00:28:35.854> necessarily,<00:28:36.884> but
00:28:38.104 --> 00:28:40.944
I<00:28:38.324> just<00:28:38.644> love<00:28:39.574> a<00:28:39.724> good<00:28:39.984> Western.
00:28:41.014 --> 00:28:45.114
This<00:28:41.344> kind<00:28:41.594> of<00:28:41.694> ignited<00:28:42.144> 'cause<00:28:42.314> I<00:28:42.624> played
<00:28:42.924>Red<00:28:43.104> Dead<00:28:43.304> Redemption<00:28:44.144> one<00:28:44.454> and<00:28:44.714> two<00:28:44.904> this
00:28:45.114 --> 00:28:46.794
year,<00:28:45.374> and<00:28:45.494> I<00:28:45.584> love<00:28:45.764> both<00:28:45.994> of<00:28:46.084> those<00:28:46.294> games.
00:28:47.314 --> 00:28:49.954
Django<00:28:48.064> is<00:28:48.384> one<00:28:48.534> of<00:28:48.624> my<00:28:48.754> favorite<00:28:49.104> movies.
00:28:50.494 --> 00:28:52.224
Django<00:28:51.324> Unchained<00:28:51.379> to,<00:28:51.434> to<00:28:51.574> be<00:28:51.744> specific.
00:28:52.234 --> 00:28:59.174
But<00:28:53.514> I've<00:28:53.944> always<00:28:54.434> wanted<00:28:54.894> to<00:28:56.574> write<00:28:56.904> a<00:28:56.994> story<00:28:57.344> in
<00:28:57.414>that<00:28:57.574> genre,<00:28:57.984> and<00:28:58.044> I<00:28:58.224> feel<00:28:58.434> like<00:28:58.654> it<00:28:58.784> would<00:28:58.934> be<00:28:59.104> a
00:28:59.174 --> 00:29:02.434
challenge<00:28:59.894> but<00:29:00.044> also<00:29:00.524> a<00:29:00.634> really<00:29:01.024> fun<00:29:01.464> project.
00:29:02.764 --> 00:29:06.994
And<00:29:02.994> this<00:29:03.144> specifically<00:29:03.924> to<00:29:04.054> make<00:29:04.304> it,<00:29:04.504> a
<00:29:04.564>horror<00:29:04.864> Western<00:29:05.304> too<00:29:05.714> would<00:29:05.954> be<00:29:06.164> really<00:29:06.584> cool.
00:29:07.004 --> 00:29:12.074
So<00:29:07.484> that<00:29:07.724> is<00:29:07.844> something<00:29:08.404> I<00:29:08.514> haven't<00:29:08.864> yet
<00:29:09.164>tried,<00:29:09.694> but<00:29:10.364> I<00:29:10.464> do<00:29:10.684> plan<00:29:11.054> to<00:29:11.154> do<00:29:11.334> at<00:29:11.504> some<00:29:11.814> point.
00:29:15.958 --> 00:29:17.048
Nailah King: I<00:29:16.128> would<00:29:16.348> love<00:29:16.568> that<00:29:16.728> from<00:29:16.868> you.
00:29:17.098 --> 00:29:18.298
I'm<00:29:17.198> staying<00:29:17.618> tuned.
00:29:18.318 --> 00:29:19.238
That<00:29:18.418> would<00:29:18.498> be<00:29:18.648> so<00:29:18.868> good.
00:29:20.298 --> 00:29:20.768
Kennedy Cole: Thank<00:29:20.528> you
00:29:34.330 --> 00:29:35.000
Nailah King: I<00:29:34.480> think,<00:29:34.540> yeah,
00:29:35.100 --> 00:29:36.520
that<00:29:35.310> could<00:29:35.440> be<00:29:35.600> so<00:29:36.060> fun.
00:29:36.520 --> 00:29:39.690
I<00:29:36.580> know<00:29:36.720> there's<00:29:36.910> a<00:29:36.970> couple,
<00:29:38.200>splatter<00:29:38.590> westerns,<00:29:39.350> out<00:29:39.370> there.
00:29:39.770 --> 00:29:43.570
are<00:29:39.990> you<00:29:40.190> working<00:29:40.690> on<00:29:41.120> or<00:29:41.310> trying
<00:29:41.640>to<00:29:41.780> start<00:29:42.100> any<00:29:42.380> new<00:29:42.680> projects,<00:29:43.400> and
00:29:43.590 --> 00:29:45.070
if<00:29:43.840> yes,<00:29:44.300> what<00:29:44.520> can<00:29:44.650> you<00:29:44.790> tease?
00:29:46.530 --> 00:29:48.280
Kennedy Cole: Yes,<00:29:47.090> I<00:29:47.770> am.
00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:55.020
I<00:29:48.740> actually<00:29:49.190> just<00:29:49.560> received<00:29:50.340> my<00:29:50.530> second<00:29:51.130> round
<00:29:51.370>of<00:29:51.510> edits<00:29:52.060> for<00:29:52.900> my<00:29:53.240> next<00:29:53.770> book<00:29:54.090> with<00:29:54.310> Berkeley.
00:29:55.840 --> 00:30:01.580
I<00:29:56.060> cannot<00:29:56.520> tell<00:29:56.690> you<00:29:56.800> what<00:29:56.930> the<00:29:57.020> plot<00:29:57.380> is,
<00:29:57.730>but<00:29:59.310> I<00:29:59.420> will<00:29:59.740> say<00:30:00.190> that<00:30:00.380> it<00:30:00.490> is<00:30:00.680> not<00:30:00.920> a<00:30:00.990> sequel
00:30:01.610 --> 00:30:02.830
to<00:30:01.730> There<00:30:01.920> Used<00:30:02.050> to<00:30:02.100> Be<00:30:02.160> People<00:30:02.510> Here.
00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:04.270
It<00:30:02.870> is<00:30:03.090> very,<00:30:03.410> very<00:30:03.680> different.
00:30:04.780 --> 00:30:14.750
It<00:30:05.040> centers<00:30:06.480> sisterhood<00:30:08.040> and
<00:30:09.190>womanhood<00:30:10.980> and<00:30:12.060> maybe<00:30:12.630> explores<00:30:13.990> some
00:30:15.310 --> 00:30:18.390
obsession-heavy<00:30:16.970> codependency.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.720
So<00:30:19.220> that<00:30:19.700> is<00:30:19.990> all<00:30:20.280> I<00:30:20.340> will<00:30:20.580> say<00:30:21.160> for<00:30:21.360> that.
00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:24.880
It's<00:30:22.120> definitely<00:30:22.600> still<00:30:22.820> in
<00:30:22.920>development,<00:30:23.490> but<00:30:23.900> I'm<00:30:24.240> really,<00:30:24.600> really,
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:26.600
really<00:30:25.090> excited<00:30:25.890> to<00:30:26.010> have<00:30:26.250> it<00:30:26.340> out.
00:30:26.650 --> 00:30:27.600
Nailah King: I<00:30:26.880> love<00:30:27.340> that.
00:30:27.610 --> 00:30:28.060
Well,<00:30:27.750> hope-
00:30:28.120 --> 00:30:28.470
Kennedy Cole: well,
00:30:28.510 --> 00:30:31.500
Nailah King: hmm,<00:30:28.810> I<00:30:28.900> guess<00:30:29.560> probably
<00:30:29.820>more<00:30:29.980> like<00:30:30.130> 2028,<00:30:30.700> but<00:30:30.930> a<00:30:30.970> girl<00:30:31.140> can<00:30:31.240> dream.
00:30:33.260 --> 00:30:33.730
Yeah.
00:30:33.860 --> 00:30:34.230
Awesome.
00:30:34.270 --> 00:30:39.120
And<00:30:34.470> my<00:30:34.600> final<00:30:34.830> question<00:30:35.260> before<00:30:35.460> we<00:30:35.580> get
<00:30:35.780>into<00:30:36.040> your<00:30:36.230> pop<00:30:36.530> off<00:30:37.340> is<00:30:38.260> what<00:30:38.570> is<00:30:38.820> one
00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:44.010
piece<00:30:39.270> of<00:30:39.400> advice<00:30:39.830> you'd<00:30:40.030> like<00:30:40.180> to<00:30:40.310> give
<00:30:40.530>to<00:30:40.650> emerging<00:30:41.200> BIPOC<00:30:42.170> writers,<00:30:43.190> especially
00:30:44.010 --> 00:30:46.040
in<00:30:44.180> the<00:30:44.300> horror<00:30:44.770> speculative<00:30:45.420> space?
00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:52.610
Kennedy Cole: So<00:30:48.070> I'm<00:30:48.190> gonna<00:30:48.410> quote<00:30:49.220> an
<00:30:49.580>author<00:30:49.880> friend<00:30:50.090> of<00:30:50.220> mine,<00:30:50.800> Raven<00:30:51.540> Stringfield.
00:30:53.150 --> 00:30:58.530
When<00:30:53.460> I,<00:30:54.170> literally<00:30:54.630> the<00:30:54.960> day<00:30:55.260> after<00:30:55.570> I<00:30:55.630> got
<00:30:55.800>my<00:30:55.890> book<00:30:56.150> deal,<00:30:56.690> I<00:30:56.790> met<00:30:57.000> her<00:30:57.540> at<00:30:57.850> YallFest
00:30:58.650 --> 00:31:04.520
in<00:30:59.210> Charleston,<00:31:00.350> and<00:31:01.230> I<00:31:01.370> went<00:31:01.520> up<00:31:01.650> to<00:31:01.770> her
<00:31:01.960>and<00:31:02.070> I<00:31:02.470> asked,<00:31:03.440> "What's<00:31:03.980> a<00:31:04.020> piece<00:31:04.200> of<00:31:04.270> advice
00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:07.240
you<00:31:04.630> can<00:31:04.760> give<00:31:04.920> me?<00:31:05.440> 'Cause<00:31:05.770> I'm<00:31:05.910> about
<00:31:06.130>to<00:31:06.200> enter<00:31:06.410> this<00:31:06.530> space<00:31:06.830> and<00:31:06.940> I<00:31:07.000> know<00:31:07.120> it's
00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:09.460
really<00:31:07.490> difficult<00:31:07.920> for<00:31:08.480> BIPOC<00:31:08.950> writers."
00:31:09.940 --> 00:31:16.650
And<00:31:10.460> she<00:31:10.670> told<00:31:11.000> me<00:31:12.010> to<00:31:12.940> cling<00:31:13.330> to<00:31:13.430> my
<00:31:13.600>community,<00:31:14.840> to<00:31:15.500> connect<00:31:16.040> with<00:31:16.340> other
00:31:16.650 --> 00:31:21.450
writers<00:31:17.100> of<00:31:17.270> color,<00:31:18.510> and<00:31:19.180> to<00:31:19.330> stay
<00:31:19.700>connected<00:31:20.250> with<00:31:20.400> other<00:31:20.650> writers<00:31:20.960> of<00:31:21.120> color.
00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:30.380
To<00:31:21.610> not<00:31:22.640> lose<00:31:23.030> yourself<00:31:23.640> in<00:31:24.000> this<00:31:24.780> heavily
<00:31:26.720>white-dominated<00:31:27.710> industry<00:31:28.510> and<00:31:28.810> I<00:31:28.920> guess,<00:31:30.080> step
00:31:30.380 --> 00:31:35.580
away<00:31:30.860> from<00:31:32.330> the<00:31:33.270> community<00:31:33.780> that<00:31:33.960> you<00:31:34.710> need.
00:31:35.730 --> 00:31:42.070
I<00:31:35.860> do<00:31:36.130> think<00:31:37.480> knowing<00:31:38.020> other<00:31:38.280> BIPOC
<00:31:38.690>writers<00:31:38.960> has<00:31:39.260> helped<00:31:39.700> me<00:31:40.780> on<00:31:41.080> this<00:31:41.350> journey.
00:31:42.300 --> 00:31:48.450
For<00:31:42.760> horror<00:31:43.250> and<00:31:43.460> speculative<00:31:44.310> authors
<00:31:44.880>specifically,<00:31:47.150> And<00:31:47.430> I<00:31:47.560> guess<00:31:47.880> this<00:31:48.100> can<00:31:48.250> be
00:31:48.450 --> 00:31:53.620
for<00:31:48.690> all<00:31:48.920> writers,<00:31:49.440> but<00:31:49.740> definitely<00:31:50.630> don't<00:31:50.870> be
<00:31:50.990>afraid<00:31:51.380> to<00:31:51.430> put<00:31:51.720> yourself<00:31:52.520> into<00:31:52.840> your<00:31:53.090> work.
00:31:54.170 --> 00:31:57.590
A<00:31:54.460> lot<00:31:54.760> of<00:31:54.900> myself<00:31:55.450> is<00:31:56.050> in<00:31:56.400> There
<00:31:56.570>Used<00:31:56.730> to<00:31:56.770> Be<00:31:56.840> People<00:31:57.160> Here.
00:31:57.600 --> 00:32:02.690
A<00:31:57.630> lot<00:31:57.880> of<00:31:58.110> personal<00:31:58.510> things<00:31:58.820> I've<00:31:59.000> felt
<00:32:00.090>and<00:32:01.000> gone<00:32:01.310> through<00:32:01.810> are<00:32:01.960> in<00:32:02.060> that<00:32:02.210> story.
00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:09.730
And<00:32:04.030> I<00:32:04.170> feel<00:32:04.350> like<00:32:04.480> a<00:32:04.530> tendency<00:32:05.390> for<00:32:06.340> speculative
<00:32:06.930>authors<00:32:07.370> is<00:32:07.560> to<00:32:07.710> kinda<00:32:08.050> step<00:32:08.430> away<00:32:09.150> or<00:32:09.380> out<00:32:09.610> of
00:32:09.730 --> 00:32:12.500
the<00:32:09.810> work<00:32:10.130> and<00:32:10.330> just<00:32:10.590> let<00:32:10.830> it<00:32:11.150> be<00:32:11.650> what<00:32:11.840> it<00:32:11.960> is.
00:32:12.520 --> 00:32:18.520
But,<00:32:13.310> if<00:32:13.360> you<00:32:13.460> feel<00:32:13.670> yourself<00:32:14.140> start<00:32:14.670> to,<00:32:16.240> pour
<00:32:16.930>maybe<00:32:17.220> a<00:32:17.300> little<00:32:17.500> more<00:32:17.650> deeply<00:32:18.040> into<00:32:18.190> the<00:32:18.250> work
00:32:18.550 --> 00:32:22.910
than<00:32:18.980> you<00:32:19.150> originally<00:32:20.430> intended,<00:32:21.360> I<00:32:21.410> don't
<00:32:21.560>think<00:32:21.730> you<00:32:21.860> should<00:32:22.040> shy<00:32:22.250> away<00:32:22.480> from<00:32:22.690> that
00:32:22.930 --> 00:32:28.670
because,<00:32:23.860> at<00:32:23.970> the<00:32:24.050> end<00:32:24.150> of<00:32:24.230> the<00:32:24.280> day,<00:32:24.480> it<00:32:24.560> is<00:32:24.730> your
<00:32:24.900>story,<00:32:26.210> and<00:32:26.970> who<00:32:27.090> knows<00:32:27.430> who<00:32:27.620> else<00:32:28.050> might<00:32:28.550> be
00:32:28.670 --> 00:32:31.720
out<00:32:28.860> there<00:32:29.030> that<00:32:29.560> also<00:32:29.880> needs<00:32:30.120> to<00:32:30.230> hear<00:32:31.180> that.
00:32:32.170 --> 00:32:33.620
So<00:32:32.760> that<00:32:32.910> is<00:32:33.040> my<00:32:33.170> advice.
00:33:05.768 --> 00:33:06.758
Nailah King: I<00:33:05.898> love<00:33:06.188> that.
00:33:07.798 --> 00:33:08.288
All<00:33:08.008> right.
00:33:08.698 --> 00:33:12.818
It<00:33:08.818> is<00:33:08.918> now<00:33:09.158> the<00:33:09.268> fun<00:33:09.518> part<00:33:09.698> of<00:33:09.788> this<00:33:09.938> episode,
<00:33:10.908>'cause<00:33:11.078> we<00:33:11.198> start<00:33:11.518> silly<00:33:11.848> and<00:33:11.968> we<00:33:12.088> end<00:33:12.348> silly.
00:33:13.738 --> 00:33:15.738
I<00:33:13.958> am<00:33:14.098> going<00:33:14.268> to<00:33:14.368> ask<00:33:14.598> you<00:33:14.728> to<00:33:14.888> talk<00:33:15.138> your<00:33:15.318> lit.
00:33:15.808 --> 00:33:19.888
I<00:33:16.028> will<00:33:16.198> give<00:33:16.358> you<00:33:16.538> 90<00:33:16.888> seconds,<00:33:17.348> and<00:33:17.518> you<00:33:17.658> can
<00:33:17.838>pop<00:33:18.108> off<00:33:18.428> and<00:33:18.608> share<00:33:18.778> your<00:33:18.988> hottest<00:33:19.528> bookish
00:33:19.928 --> 00:33:24.408
takes<00:33:20.588> where<00:33:20.758> you<00:33:20.938> can<00:33:21.688> defend<00:33:22.078> your<00:33:22.228> favorite
<00:33:22.638>genre,<00:33:23.038> sub-genre,<00:33:23.618> trope,<00:33:23.888> or<00:33:23.938> trend.
00:33:24.508 --> 00:33:26.698
You<00:33:24.718> can<00:33:24.908> put<00:33:25.108> the<00:33:25.208> publishing
<00:33:25.678>industry<00:33:26.108> on<00:33:26.298> blast.
00:33:27.118 --> 00:33:29.588
You<00:33:27.288> can<00:33:27.448> slam<00:33:27.738> your<00:33:27.968> least<00:33:28.288> favorite
<00:33:28.708>genre,<00:33:29.108> sub-genre,<00:33:29.518> trope,<00:33:29.528> or
00:33:29.588 --> 00:33:34.118
trend,<00:33:29.808> or<00:33:30.938> you<00:33:31.108> may<00:33:31.288> simply<00:33:31.748> shout<00:33:32.048> out
<00:33:32.358>your<00:33:32.538> favorite<00:33:33.018> underrated<00:33:33.738> writer.
00:33:34.148 --> 00:33:35.468
It<00:33:34.318> is<00:33:34.548> up<00:33:34.798> to<00:33:35.048> you.
00:33:35.738 --> 00:33:36.458
Are<00:33:35.928> we<00:33:36.088> ready?
00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:40.980
All<00:33:38.600> right,<00:33:39.030> the<00:33:39.180> timer<00:33:39.600> is<00:33:39.750> starting<00:33:40.360> meow.
00:33:42.760 --> 00:33:43.190
Kennedy Cole: Okay.
00:33:44.190 --> 00:33:44.860
I'm<00:33:44.410> ready
00:33:50.436 --> 00:33:56.016
Okay,<00:33:50.466> so<00:33:51.166> for<00:33:51.616> my<00:33:51.866> pop<00:33:52.136> off,<00:33:52.356> I<00:33:52.596> wanted<00:33:52.996> to<00:33:53.016> talk
<00:33:53.256>specifically<00:33:54.226> about<00:33:54.866> being<00:33:55.256> an<00:33:55.336> author<00:33:55.716> in<00:33:55.806> this
00:33:56.036 --> 00:33:58.846
industry<00:33:56.826> and<00:33:57.346> lifting<00:33:57.836> up<00:33:57.996> other<00:33:58.256> writers.
00:33:59.136 --> 00:34:03.926
I<00:33:59.236> feel<00:33:59.466> like<00:33:59.816> as<00:34:00.076> I've<00:34:00.246> transitioned<00:34:00.946> from
<00:34:01.836>being<00:34:02.126> a<00:34:02.196> reader<00:34:02.626> to<00:34:02.746> an<00:34:02.866> author,<00:34:03.286> I've
00:34:04.266 --> 00:34:06.406
been<00:34:04.626> giving<00:34:04.946> a<00:34:05.016> lot<00:34:05.316> of<00:34:05.466> books<00:34:05.706> five<00:34:05.966> stars.
00:34:06.406 --> 00:34:09.336
Literally<00:34:06.836> every<00:34:07.096> book<00:34:07.346> I've
<00:34:07.576>read<00:34:07.776> this<00:34:07.986> year<00:34:08.356> is<00:34:08.516> five<00:34:08.786> stars.
00:34:10.236 --> 00:34:16.066
And<00:34:10.906> maybe<00:34:12.226> I<00:34:12.516> don't<00:34:12.966> all<00:34:13.306> believe<00:34:13.796> they
<00:34:13.926>should<00:34:14.226> be,<00:34:14.536> but<00:34:14.796> I<00:34:14.966> have<00:34:15.576> publicly
00:34:16.066 --> 00:34:20.456
reviewed<00:34:16.456> a<00:34:16.506> lot<00:34:16.776> of<00:34:16.866> books<00:34:17.076> as<00:34:17.206> five<00:34:17.456> stars
<00:34:17.746>this<00:34:17.906> year,<00:34:18.186> and<00:34:19.086> that<00:34:19.386> has<00:34:19.716> to<00:34:19.836> do<00:34:20.086> with,
00:34:20.536 --> 00:34:22.666
being<00:34:21.106> a<00:34:21.196> peer<00:34:21.676> within<00:34:22.016> the<00:34:22.146> industry.
00:34:22.716 --> 00:34:27.576
At<00:34:22.886> the<00:34:23.006> end<00:34:23.136> of<00:34:23.216> the<00:34:23.276> day,<00:34:23.456> I<00:34:23.626> think<00:34:23.936> writers
<00:34:25.026>need<00:34:25.316> to<00:34:25.406> lift<00:34:25.646> up<00:34:25.736> other<00:34:25.966> writers,<00:34:26.906> and
00:34:27.996 --> 00:34:33.516
I<00:34:28.566> do<00:34:28.816> think,<00:34:29.256> maybe<00:34:29.816> separation<00:34:30.786> of
<00:34:31.126>opinion<00:34:31.636> versus,<00:34:32.856> the<00:34:33.106> support<00:34:33.436> you
00:34:33.516 --> 00:34:35.076
wanna<00:34:33.766> give<00:34:34.046> needs<00:34:34.306> to<00:34:34.416> be<00:34:34.526> a<00:34:34.586> factor.
00:34:35.086 --> 00:34:36.246
But<00:34:35.746> I<00:34:35.896> don't<00:34:36.006> know.
00:34:36.246 --> 00:34:40.376
I'm<00:34:36.376> all<00:34:36.516> for<00:34:36.776> giving<00:34:37.146> a<00:34:37.186> book<00:34:37.396> five
<00:34:37.636>stars<00:34:38.316> if<00:34:38.946> I<00:34:39.186> know<00:34:39.596> that<00:34:39.776> the<00:34:39.886> writer<00:34:40.166> has
00:34:40.426 --> 00:34:42.896
put<00:34:41.066> a<00:34:41.196> lot<00:34:41.466> of<00:34:41.616> work<00:34:41.906> into<00:34:42.346> their<00:34:42.556> work.
00:34:43.806 --> 00:34:49.306
Now,<00:34:45.436> as<00:34:45.676> for<00:34:46.036> a<00:34:46.176> trope<00:34:46.866> I<00:34:47.066> don't
<00:34:47.326>like,<00:34:47.786> I<00:34:47.996> love<00:34:48.236> a<00:34:48.306> good<00:34:48.506> romance.
00:34:49.626 --> 00:34:50.876
I<00:34:49.706> don't<00:34:49.996> like<00:34:50.216> an<00:34:50.326> age<00:34:50.576> gap.
00:34:50.876 --> 00:34:52.516
Get<00:34:51.066> that<00:34:51.226> fucking<00:34:51.546> age<00:34:51.736> gap<00:34:51.936> out<00:34:52.026> of<00:34:52.106> my<00:34:52.216> face.
00:34:52.516 --> 00:34:54.476
That<00:34:52.676> is<00:34:52.736> super<00:34:53.566> not<00:34:54.006> for<00:34:54.166> me.
00:34:54.726 --> 00:34:57.716
That<00:34:54.846> was<00:34:54.936> a<00:34:54.946> little<00:34:55.196> last-minute<00:34:55.746> throw
<00:34:56.106>on<00:34:56.376> 'cause<00:34:56.586> you<00:34:56.766> kind<00:34:56.916> of<00:34:57.006> inspired<00:34:57.546> me
00:34:57.716 --> 00:34:58.986
to<00:34:57.836> mention<00:34:57.856> a<00:34:57.866> trope<00:34:58.646> I<00:34:58.656> don't<00:34:58.756> like.
00:34:58.986 --> 00:35:00.416
So<00:34:59.706> boo,<00:34:59.976> age<00:35:00.216> gaps.
00:35:04.600 --> 00:35:05.350
Nailah King: Time.
00:35:05.930 --> 00:35:06.420
I<00:35:06.150> hate<00:35:06.390> them.
00:35:07.040 --> 00:35:11.450
I<00:35:07.380> literally<00:35:08.040> cannot<00:35:08.410> stand<00:35:08.750> them,
<00:35:09.340>because<00:35:10.070> there's<00:35:10.520> power<00:35:10.830> dynamics
00:35:11.450 --> 00:35:13.370
involved,<00:35:12.010> and<00:35:12.430> mama<00:35:12.730> don't<00:35:12.970> like.
00:35:13.410 --> 00:35:14.610
I<00:35:13.480> mean,<00:35:14.100> I'm<00:35:14.240> not<00:35:14.360> a<00:35:14.400> cop.
00:35:14.620 --> 00:35:15.270
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:17.370
No,<00:35:16.930> no,<00:35:17.060> no,<00:35:17.180> no
00:35:20.518 --> 00:35:21.978
Nailah King: you<00:35:20.588> can<00:35:20.678> do<00:35:20.778> what<00:35:20.868> you
<00:35:20.968>want,<00:35:21.178> but<00:35:21.338> I<00:35:21.448> don't<00:35:21.548> wanna<00:35:21.698> read<00:35:21.828> it.
00:35:22.828 --> 00:35:23.148
Like
00:35:23.448 --> 00:35:23.798
Kennedy Cole: Nope.
00:35:24.508 --> 00:35:25.408
Nailah King: I<00:35:24.818> do<00:35:25.018> not.
00:35:26.238 --> 00:35:27.078
Kennedy Cole: I<00:35:26.348> will<00:35:26.478> pass.
00:35:31.998 --> 00:35:34.558
Nailah King: Passiana,<00:35:33.008> I
<00:35:33.178>don't<00:35:33.538> want<00:35:33.788> to<00:35:33.918> see<00:35:34.228> that.
00:35:34.578 --> 00:35:35.998
Get<00:35:34.768> it<00:35:34.898> out<00:35:35.018> of<00:35:35.168> my<00:35:35.458> face.
00:35:36.218 --> 00:35:37.228
Same<00:35:36.408> with<00:35:36.628> second<00:35:36.798> chance.
00:35:38.058 --> 00:35:38.658
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:35:39.578 --> 00:35:41.268
Nailah King: Why<00:35:39.868> are<00:35:39.928> we
<00:35:40.048>giving<00:35:40.258> people<00:35:40.508> second<00:35:40.718> chances?
00:35:42.658 --> 00:35:47.208
Kennedy Cole: mm.<00:35:44.188> Right,<00:35:44.728> like<00:35:45.008> there's
<00:35:45.298>a<00:35:45.388> reason<00:35:45.718> he<00:35:45.808> passed<00:35:46.048> in<00:35:46.068> the<00:35:46.268> first<00:35:46.498> place.
00:35:47.578 --> 00:35:48.338
Good<00:35:47.838> God.
00:36:00.982 --> 00:36:04.762
Nailah King: Like<00:36:02.382> we're<00:36:02.652> giving
<00:36:03.062>prizes<00:36:03.532> out<00:36:03.682> for<00:36:03.822> fumbling<00:36:04.212> baddies<00:36:04.602> now?
00:36:04.902 --> 00:36:05.982
Like<00:36:05.102> what<00:36:05.412> are<00:36:05.542> we<00:36:05.752> doing?
00:36:06.822 --> 00:36:12.002
I<00:36:07.002> was<00:36:07.092> like,<00:36:07.322> "Get<00:36:07.692> it<00:36:07.932> away<00:36:08.622> from
<00:36:09.032>me."<00:36:10.892> But<00:36:11.122> some<00:36:11.332> people<00:36:11.612> love<00:36:11.822> it.
00:36:12.042 --> 00:36:16.382
One<00:36:12.242> of<00:36:12.352> my<00:36:12.542> peers,<00:36:13.082> that's<00:36:13.342> like<00:36:13.512> most<00:36:13.802> of<00:36:13.942> what
<00:36:14.102>she<00:36:14.422> writes,<00:36:14.882> and<00:36:14.982> I'm<00:36:15.082> like,<00:36:15.342> "Another<00:36:15.912> one?"
00:36:17.482 --> 00:36:18.192
Kennedy Cole: I<00:36:17.652> don't<00:36:17.862> know.
00:36:20.750 --> 00:36:21.740
That<00:36:20.910> is<00:36:21.100> so<00:36:21.290> funny
00:36:24.736 --> 00:36:27.166
Nailah King: Like<00:36:24.996> you<00:36:25.186> have<00:36:25.246> multiple
<00:36:26.006>fumblers<00:36:26.256> in<00:36:26.356> your<00:36:26.496> cinematic<00:36:26.996> universe?
00:36:29.926 --> 00:36:30.786
Kennedy Cole: Yeah.
00:36:31.566 --> 00:36:35.606
Fumbler<00:36:31.876> is<00:36:32.036> like<00:36:32.226> the<00:36:32.596> perfect<00:36:33.026> word<00:36:33.456> for
<00:36:33.646>a<00:36:33.726> second<00:36:34.006> chance<00:36:34.246> romance,<00:36:34.686> 'cause<00:36:35.166> why
00:36:35.626 --> 00:36:37.406
are<00:36:35.906> you<00:36:36.086> giving<00:36:36.356> them<00:36:36.466> another<00:36:36.776> chance?
00:36:37.756 --> 00:36:38.476
Nailah King: Because
00:36:39.606 --> 00:36:40.756
Kennedy Cole: Like,<00:36:40.136> come<00:36:40.346> on<00:36:40.496> now
00:36:46.410 --> 00:36:49.320
Nailah King: it's<00:36:46.680> literally
<00:36:47.270>like<00:36:47.800> they<00:36:48.160> fumbled<00:36:48.680> the<00:36:48.780> person.
00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.330
It's<00:36:49.920> rarely<00:36:51.320> for<00:36:51.510> a<00:36:51.560> good<00:36:51.750> reason.
00:36:52.580 --> 00:36:53.080
Kennedy Cole: Right.
00:36:54.060 --> 00:36:54.920
Exactly
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:05.560
Nailah King: and<00:37:02.980> even<00:37:03.310> still,<00:37:03.960> in<00:37:04.110> the
<00:37:04.200>instances<00:37:04.740> where<00:37:04.850> maybe<00:37:05.400> the<00:37:05.420> timing's
00:37:05.560 --> 00:37:10.360
off,<00:37:05.790> that<00:37:06.050> feels<00:37:06.360> more<00:37:06.680> like<00:37:07.140> right<00:37:07.440> person,
<00:37:07.860>wrong<00:37:08.140> time<00:37:08.910> than<00:37:09.140> like<00:37:09.480> second<00:37:09.920> chance.
00:37:11.860 --> 00:37:12.790
Kennedy Cole: Exactly.
00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:14.780
No,<00:37:13.590> I<00:37:13.790> completely<00:37:14.230> agree<00:37:14.450> with<00:37:14.520> you.
00:37:15.530 --> 00:37:17.120
See,<00:37:15.700> I<00:37:15.840> stick<00:37:16.080> to<00:37:16.180> queer<00:37:16.440> romance.
00:37:17.170 --> 00:37:17.730
That<00:37:17.370> for<00:37:17.520> me.
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.490
I<00:37:17.850> don't<00:37:18.030> do<00:37:18.140> the<00:37:18.660> man,<00:37:18.990> woman<00:37:19.210> stuff.
00:37:19.490 --> 00:37:20.670
No,<00:37:20.270> I'm<00:37:20.440> good.
00:37:26.504 --> 00:37:27.254
Nailah King: Yeah,<00:37:26.824> that's<00:37:26.984> fair.
00:37:28.124 --> 00:37:29.674
Probably<00:37:28.574> safer<00:37:28.934> in<00:37:29.034> terms<00:37:29.324> of
00:37:31.444 --> 00:37:32.324
Kennedy Cole: Oh,<00:37:31.794> yeah.
00:37:36.862 --> 00:37:37.232
Nailah King: Tomfoolery<00:37:36.972> for
00:37:39.992 --> 00:37:41.692
an<00:37:40.192> all-encompassing<00:37:41.352> term.
00:37:43.102 --> 00:37:45.952
Probably<00:37:43.482> better<00:37:43.742> for<00:37:43.912> some<00:37:43.922> tomfoolery,
<00:37:44.722>and<00:37:44.802> staying<00:37:45.272> away<00:37:45.532> from<00:37:45.712> that.
00:37:46.102 --> 00:37:46.642
Kennedy Cole: Yep.
00:38:08.074 --> 00:38:11.114
Nailah King: Well,<00:38:08.974> that<00:38:09.214> brings
<00:38:09.444>us<00:38:09.664> to<00:38:09.774> the<00:38:09.874> end<00:38:10.094> of<00:38:10.244> the<00:38:10.444> episode.
00:38:11.144 --> 00:38:12.894
I've<00:38:11.174> had<00:38:11.394> a<00:38:11.434> lot<00:38:11.544> of<00:38:11.594> fun<00:38:11.814> chatting<00:38:12.204> with<00:38:12.344> you.
00:38:13.604 --> 00:38:17.654
This<00:38:13.824> is<00:38:13.924> the<00:38:14.014> part<00:38:14.304> of<00:38:14.374> the<00:38:14.474> show<00:38:14.854> where<00:38:15.054> you
<00:38:15.224>can<00:38:15.384> share,<00:38:16.024> how<00:38:16.194> people<00:38:16.614> can<00:38:16.864> support<00:38:17.304> you,
00:38:17.654 --> 00:38:24.304
where<00:38:17.844> to<00:38:17.964> follow<00:38:18.394> you,<00:38:19.624> where<00:38:20.044> you<00:38:20.214> can<00:38:20.424> buy
<00:38:21.174>a<00:38:21.324> copy<00:38:21.844> of<00:38:22.084> There<00:38:22.214> Used<00:38:22.464> to<00:38:23.114> Be<00:38:23.344> People<00:38:23.724> Here,
00:38:24.654 --> 00:38:26.184
and<00:38:25.074> any<00:38:25.264> last<00:38:25.484> things<00:38:25.674> you<00:38:25.724> wanna<00:38:25.844> share.
00:38:27.634 --> 00:38:29.124
Kennedy Cole: Well,<00:38:27.724> thank
<00:38:27.964>you<00:38:28.094> so<00:38:28.274> much<00:38:28.484> for<00:38:28.604> having<00:38:28.944> me.
00:38:29.124 --> 00:38:30.604
I<00:38:29.244> also<00:38:29.534> had<00:38:29.654> a<00:38:29.664> lot<00:38:29.894> of<00:38:29.984> fun.
00:38:30.674 --> 00:38:34.224
You<00:38:31.024> can<00:38:31.414> follow<00:38:31.764> me<00:38:32.054> on<00:38:32.284> Instagram
<00:38:34.204>at<00:38:34.214> KennedyReadsAndWrites
00:38:34.224 --> 00:38:35.844
for<00:38:34.874> all<00:38:35.164> of<00:38:35.234> my<00:38:35.364> updates.
00:38:35.844 --> 00:38:38.684
I'm<00:38:35.984> really<00:38:36.174> active<00:38:36.484> on<00:38:36.634> there,
<00:38:37.484>and<00:38:37.914> it<00:38:37.974> would<00:38:38.064> mean<00:38:38.204> a<00:38:38.244> lot.
00:38:39.374 --> 00:38:42.664
For<00:38:39.854> pre-orders,<00:38:40.784> I<00:38:40.844> would<00:38:41.014> really<00:38:41.374> appreciate
<00:38:41.754>it<00:38:41.774> if<00:38:41.854> you<00:38:41.944> could<00:38:42.064> pre-order<00:38:42.424> There<00:38:42.564> Used
00:38:42.684 --> 00:38:46.484
to<00:38:42.724> Be<00:38:42.784> People<00:38:43.084> Here<00:38:43.264> before<00:38:43.754> November
<00:38:44.344>3rd,<00:38:45.244> which<00:38:45.474> is<00:38:45.634> the<00:38:45.734> publishing<00:38:46.224> date.
00:38:46.494 --> 00:38:52.934
If<00:38:46.714> you<00:38:46.914> go<00:38:47.234> to<00:38:47.474> penguinrandomhouse.com<00:38:50.214> and
<00:38:50.604>look<00:38:50.934> it<00:38:51.124> up<00:38:51.314> on<00:38:51.524> there,<00:38:51.934> then<00:38:52.064> you'll<00:38:52.214> find<00:38:52.594> all
00:38:52.944 --> 00:38:55.534
of<00:38:52.994> the<00:38:53.104> links<00:38:53.584> for<00:38:54.274> places<00:38:54.654> you<00:38:54.784> can<00:38:54.934> pre-order.
00:38:55.534 --> 00:38:57.564
So<00:38:55.724> that's<00:38:55.864> the<00:38:55.984> main<00:38:56.274> pre-order<00:38:56.644> link<00:38:57.034> hub.
00:38:58.124 --> 00:39:06.454
You<00:38:58.254> can<00:38:58.434> find<00:38:58.854> me<00:38:59.344> talking<00:38:59.794> to<00:39:00.104> S.A.<00:39:00.544> Cosby<00:39:01.604> in
<00:39:02.374>October,<00:39:02.634> on<00:39:02.784> October<00:39:03.924> 17th<00:39:05.284> in<00:39:05.484> Winston-Salem.
00:39:06.454 --> 00:39:08.534
I'm<00:39:06.624> really<00:39:07.114> excited<00:39:07.634> about<00:39:07.964> that.
00:39:08.844 --> 00:39:09.624
Wish<00:39:09.094> me<00:39:09.214> luck.
00:39:10.154 --> 00:39:14.994
On<00:39:11.004> November<00:39:11.644> 5th<00:39:12.194> will<00:39:12.434> be
<00:39:12.944>the<00:39:13.734> release<00:39:14.144> party<00:39:14.484> day.
00:39:15.014 --> 00:39:21.414
So<00:39:15.914> if<00:39:16.054> you're<00:39:16.224> in<00:39:16.344> the<00:39:16.494> Wilmington<00:39:17.094> area,
<00:39:18.714>it<00:39:18.824> will<00:39:18.984> be<00:39:19.174> at<00:39:19.274> Azalea<00:39:19.704> Station<00:39:20.174> at<00:39:20.424> 6:30,
00:39:22.104 --> 00:39:25.024
which<00:39:22.494> hasn't<00:39:22.834> officially<00:39:23.154> been<00:39:23.274> announced
<00:39:23.594>yet,<00:39:23.784> but<00:39:24.234> that<00:39:24.454> is<00:39:24.564> where<00:39:24.674> it<00:39:24.724> will<00:39:24.834> be.
00:39:38.548 --> 00:39:39.088
Nailah King: Awesome.
00:39:39.118 --> 00:39:43.268
Well,<00:39:39.428> I<00:39:39.508> will<00:39:39.658> definitely<00:39:40.048> include<00:39:40.438> the
<00:39:40.508>pre-order<00:39:40.878> links<00:39:41.168> and<00:39:41.408> the<00:39:41.538> event<00:39:41.888> links,<00:39:42.748> and
00:39:43.268 --> 00:39:44.788
your<00:39:43.398> website<00:39:43.738> and<00:39:43.828> all<00:39:43.938> that<00:39:44.048> good<00:39:44.198> stuff.
00:39:45.018 --> 00:39:49.418
That<00:39:45.518> is<00:39:45.828> a<00:39:46.018> wrap<00:39:46.468> on<00:39:46.968> this<00:39:47.268> episode,
<00:39:47.898>and<00:39:48.268> until<00:39:48.568> next<00:39:48.788> time,<00:39:48.988> ghouls
00:39:51.937 --> 00:39:54.147
Thank<00:39:52.107> you<00:39:52.167> so<00:39:52.287> much<00:39:52.487> for<00:39:52.617> listening
<00:39:52.997>to<00:39:53.107> Talk<00:39:53.307> Your<00:39:53.417> Lit<00:39:53.577> podcast.
00:39:54.177 --> 00:39:57.117
You<00:39:54.367> can<00:39:54.507> find<00:39:54.817> the<00:39:54.907> full<00:39:55.197> show<00:39:55.407> notes
<00:39:55.677>from<00:39:55.857> today's<00:39:56.137> episode<00:39:56.467> on<00:39:56.557> the<00:39:56.637> website.
00:39:57.437 --> 00:40:00.687
Stay<00:39:57.667> connected<00:39:58.107> and<00:39:58.257> sign<00:39:58.517> up<00:39:58.667> to<00:39:58.787> the
<00:39:58.937>email<00:39:59.267> list<00:39:59.587> for<00:39:59.737> early<00:39:59.997> release<00:40:00.297> drops,
00:40:00.907 --> 00:40:02.607
behind<00:40:01.257> the<00:40:01.337> scenes,<00:40:01.727> and<00:40:01.877> bonus<00:40:02.127> content.
00:40:02.737 --> 00:40:06.027
If<00:40:02.887> you're<00:40:02.987> loving<00:40:03.227> the<00:40:03.337> podcast,<00:40:03.877> don't<00:40:03.987> forget
<00:40:04.287>to<00:40:04.397> subscribe,<00:40:04.937> rate,<00:40:05.317> and<00:40:05.487> leave<00:40:05.587> a<00:40:05.687> review.
00:40:06.507 --> 00:40:07.487
Until<00:40:06.757> next<00:40:06.937> time,<00:40:07.157> ghouls