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You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be.
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I'm Dr.
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Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, Bloom's Taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning.
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Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education.
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All right, welcome back to the Supported Learning Podcast.
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I am your host, Dr.
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Joe Sebastian.
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I am joined by a very special guest today, Todd Nesslone.
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Todd, welcome.
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How are you?
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I'm good.
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I'm excited to be here.
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Thanks for having me.
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Excited for having you.
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Thanks for making time.
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So, Todd, let me kind of go over your bio here for our viewers and our audience listening.
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You are the Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership, Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association, an international keynote speaker, best-selling author.
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You have a seven-year classroom teacher who leaps straight into the principal's office at Webb Elementary, and you transform that, which is 85% minority, 90% free and reduced lunch from a struggling campus into a nationally recognized model of innovation and culture.
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The BAMI Award winner for both National Elementary Principal of the Year and National Elementary Teacher of the Year.
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The John C.
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Maxwell Top 10 finalists for the 2018 Transformational Leadership Award, NSBA 20, so New Schools 20 to watch, and Center for Digital Education, top 40 innovators, two-time TEDx speaker, and you authored seven books with the bestseller Kids Deserve It and Stories from the Web, Sparks in the Dark, When Kids Lead and Newest, and your creator of Culture Unleashed online course for school leaders.
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Wow, that is very, very impressive.
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So uh did I do that justice, at least.
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You did.
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It's always so uncomfortable to hear all that.
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But yes, I I I I have I've I've been busy.
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Yeah, it's awesome.
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I mean, so in your sh, you know, not necessarily a relatively long amount of time education, but you definitely have made an impact.
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But, you know, if we could kind of go back to before the books, before the elementary, like who you who you were as a classroom teacher for those seven years, and what kind of teacher were you, and when did you realize you wanted to lead?
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You know, I never thought I'd be a teacher growing up.
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I mean, I had many different things I was into, wasn't really sure.
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I knew in junior high or so that I loved working with kids.
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So I wanted to work with kids in some capacity.
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At that point, I thought, you know, social work, that's where I can make the biggest impact on some of our most vulnerable uh kids.
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And so I started learning a lot about that job and realized I can't separate myself so emotionally enough from that work to be successful and be a real person outside of that.
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So I thought, well, you know, I have a lot of my family that's in education.
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I think that's another great way I can impact kids.
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So became a teacher, absolutely loved it.
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I knew that I wanted to be a certain type of teacher because I in school I was never really in trouble.
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I knew if I did get in trouble, my mom would handle me when I got home.
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So I made sure that I got A's and B's, I behaved, I respected my teachers.
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But because of that, I kind of was that student who always did what you expected, so was easy to ignore while you focused on the kids that were discipline issues or the kids that were academic issues.
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And so I don't really remember any of my teachers from school.
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I don't remember any experiences really.
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And so I knew that when I became a teacher, I really wanted to find that whole avenue of how can I be for kids what I never had myself.
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So that's kind of the teacher I wanted to be was this one who did creative, out-of-the-box things.
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Like I love being different, but I wanted to make sure that relationships were at the core of everything that I did.
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I love that.
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And you made the, I mean, I, you know, it's not unheard of for elementary, but you made the jump straight from teacher to principal without a stop at the assistant level in between.
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Um, what was that like?
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And uh what drove that decision?
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You know, I was in, I was teaching, and this university came to our school and said, Hey, your district signed a deal where y'all can get a discount by getting your master's.
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And I was like, I mean, I don't, I don't want to go back to school.
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Like, I'm happy with the degree that I have.
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And then my whole team was like, hey, let's all do it together.
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And I said, okay, I can do this with a group.
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Like, I will do this just because I want to be the first person in my family with a master's.
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Like, that was my only goal.
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I was not looking to move into leadership or anything like that.
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And so I got my master's, and then a lot of the things that I was doing was at that education explosion on social media, you know, when it was all positive and connecting with other people and building that network.
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And I was getting recognition for different things that I was doing.
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And so I went back and I said, you know what?
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Maybe leadership is for me, but I don't really know what I want to do or how I want to do it.
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And one day I got a Twitter direct message back when this was Twitter.
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I know it's X now, but I got a Twitter direct message from an assistant superintendent who just said, Hey, we love the work we see online.
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We're actually looking for a principal to take over this school that's been underperforming.
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Would you be interested?
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And I said no.
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Like I was like, actually, I'm like, I love what I'm doing right now, no interest.
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Thanks.
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I'm good.
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And they kept reaching out and I kept turning them down.
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And then they reached out one final time and said, Hey, we won't bother you getting up to this.
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We just want to make sure you know, like, you get to hire your entire staff.
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Does that interest you at all?
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And I was like, Well, that's like like a dream creation experience in my head.
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So I was like, let me go interview, learn more about them.
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Went through several rounds of interviews, ended up getting the job.
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Um, and then it was just a crazy whirlwind from there, going straight from classroom teacher to principal, which I would not recommend for most people.
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Um, yeah, I described it like a rose.
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It was a beautiful experience, but there were a lot of thorns that I could have avoided had I had different experiences in other places as well.
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So, yeah, so I guess you step foot into this elementary school and it's basically a turnaround.
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What was that like?
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Where did you start?
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You know, it's funny because the first year I was hired, it was or the year I was hired, I was hired to be principal of an intermediate campus.
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So it was a fifth and sixth grade campus.
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And the unique thing about that school district is they had a couple little underperforming areas, but part of the issue was they had a pre-K through fifth grade campus, a four-five campus, and a pre-K through three campus.
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So it was very confusing their configurations.
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So after I had been principal for a year at the intermediate, they said, you know what?
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We're gonna level everything out.
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We're gonna make all three schools pre-K through fifth grade.
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And that means we're gonna have a one school that's giant with like 800 kids, while the other ones have between three to 400.
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And you did a really good job at intermediate.
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They need a new principal over at the 800 one.
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We're gonna move you over there.
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You can take some of your staff, but you're also gonna combine it with all theirs.
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And that's where I've spent the next four years was at Webb Elementary.
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So I just said that one year at the intermediate and then four years at Webb.
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But it was it was a beautiful experience for me, really honing my understanding of what it takes to build culture.
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Because I think it would have been one thing had I just walked into a school where I got to bring all the people together or or they were already a really positive space.
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It really challenged me and forced me to grow by being put into an environment where some of the people already knew me, others didn't know me, but didn't want a new administrator, but they didn't have a choice, and other people didn't know what was happening.
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Like there was a lot of different things going on.
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But I'm really thankful for that process because, like I said, I think it really forced me to grow into the kind of leader I wanted to be.
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So you've built school culture through programs like special, morning meetings, student ambassadors, and you matter letters.
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How do you see innovation and technology fitting into your culture first approach or that culture-first approach for that matter for other principals?
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You know, for me, I think it always goes back to something I mentioned earlier.
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It's I want to be different.
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I think there's a lot of positive things to look at in the way things have been done before.
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And I think there's always lessons we can keep by some of the things we've done before, but I also want to not be afraid or not be beholden to doing it the way it's always been done.
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I want to be uncomfortable because I am that firm believer that if you are not uncomfortable, you're not learning.
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And I tell people all the time, how dare we as educators walk into schools and demand that kids learn all day, every day, if we're not also continuing our own learning.
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So I always want to be pushing myself and trying new things, whether that is technology tools, whether that is how to build better relationships, changing the way systems look, like anything.
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I'm not afraid to ask questions.
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But I think one thing too that's really important to me is understanding that owning your failures is part of the growth.
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And I'm real big on taking those swings.
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And I have no problem with saying that did not work.
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Like, let's look, let's figure out why.
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Like, I don't want to do it again if it's not meant to work.
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But if it is meant to work and we just did it wrong, what can we change?
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Like, what can we do differently?
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And I've got so many things that I can think back on in my career that were successful, that were only successful because I failed first and had to learn from that failure to then make it what it became.
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Yeah, I mean, culture is so important in the district, especially at the elementary level, because you know, it's exciting learning.
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Learning is exciting at that level, but making sure all feel that, right?
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Or have that environment that it's safe so that kids can learn.
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And you you talk about you one of your favorite things you teach is calling parents to praise their kids, not just when they're a problem.
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How does that flip the uh parent-school dynamic?
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And uh what happens when schools can actually commit to that process?
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You know, I I think sometimes when we think about these culture ideas, we think that they have to have money or these huge initiatives that just take up so much extra time.
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And I love that you bring this one up because this is such an easy one that anyone can do.
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Many times when we talk about things, people will say, my team would never, my administrator would never.
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Like, that's why we can't do these things.
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And this idea specifically, it's like you don't need to wait on anybody.
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Like, I don't care what your job is at that school, you can call the families of kids to tell them their kids are amazing.
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And so I think for me, it just came back to looking at data.
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We were noticing that no matter what initiatives we put in place, some of our most frequent flyers, our most misbehaving kids, the behavior wasn't changing.
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And so I started thinking about, you know, let's look at the research.
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Research shows that people want to feel good.
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They all have three things in common.
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Every single human on this planet.
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We want to feel seen, we want to feel valued, and we want to feel heard.
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And so I started thinking, how can we make sure we're meeting one of those needs for some of these kids?
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Maybe that's why the behavior isn't changing.
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They're not feeling seen, valued, or heard at any point during the day.
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And so I thought, well, let's do something super easy.
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Like it feels so special when someone calls someone that you love to tell them you're amazing.
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And it was unexpected.
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And so I started working with my team and I encouraged them to do it.
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But again, I believe that as a leader, I've got to leave my example.
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So I also started making sure that I called parents.
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We had an initiative called Hats Off Cards, where every staff member got six cards a week.
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And it was like by the end of the week, you should have handed out all these to kids.
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When a kid gets one, they come to the office, we celebrate them real big, and then I always get to call and tell their loved one how amazing they are, and then send them right back to class.
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Like it was never more than a 20-second endeavor, but we watched behavior just get transformed across campus, and I completely credit it to the combined effort of people, all people making those phone calls.
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And then watching the families and their reactions with us change was pretty amazing as well to get to see families or parents break down in tears over the phone over a simple phone call.
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And learning and experiencing in that moment that that was the first time their kid had been maybe in fifth grade, and the first time they got a call from somebody at school that wasn't about homework not being done or a grade not being there or misbehavior, and to just feel like somebody's calling to celebrate you for your child, that's a moving moment.
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And for some of my team, myself included, you know, like I said, I wasn't in trouble in school, so I didn't get a lot of those negative phone calls.
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And so I think not coming from an environment of being always in trouble, I didn't understand truly how powerful that was going to be for those kids who were always hearing the negative and those families who were always hearing the negative.
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And to have that moment where somebody finally lifted them up, it was such an emotional experience that I was so moved that I was like, this is not an age connected thing.
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Like, this can be done anywhere.
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So, like, I started calling staff members families and celebrating them.
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And that to me was even more exciting than calling kids because adults are so less celebrated than kids are.
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And that was another really powerful thing for me to experience was that that moment when an adult is in tears because their loved one was called.
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And as an adult, that had never happened where our supervisor had called someone just to tell them they're amazing.
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So I think those kind of simple things are we forget.
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We think everything has to be big, extraordinary, grand, all these things.
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And it's often in the quiet little moments that the biggest change happens.
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So, Todd, you've now shaped leadership development for over 6,000 schools across Texas through is it TIPSA or do you got T E P S A?
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TEPSA, TEPSA.
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TEPSA, okay, cool.
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Um, from that vantage point, what is the single biggest thing schools are getting wrong about culture right now?
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You know, that's such an interesting question because I don't even know that I would phrase it as getting wrong about culture.
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Oftentimes, what I find is, especially in 2026, when we are recording this conversation, education is under attack.
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And not only is and and and I'll speak worldwide, nationally, but also from a Texas perspective, it's under attack financially, it's under attack curriculum-wise, also discrediting the knowledge base of an educator and what it requires to go to school and be a great educator.
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Um, and it's just emotionally exhausting.
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And I think that when I see a culture that's not the best at a school, often there are multiple things at play.
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There is a community that has not been well educated in what that school really is doing with those kids.
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There is often a central office that has not been well educated in what's really happening on that school every day.
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Sometimes it's a school administration who hasn't understood the power of relationships and how that's just as important as the instructional practices.
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And sometimes there's just a lot of hurt or burnt out teachers who have never had anybody invest in them in a way that felt authentic and in a way that didn't feel like just checking a box.
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And so there's lots of ways to look at this.
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So I don't definitely want to just put it in one big box.
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But building up culture, it's one of those things that it's never freaking done.
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Like you're always having to do it.
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And I think for some, we're just so tired that adding that in feels like one more thing because they haven't seen that.
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When you're building up culture, it's actually gonna take things off your plate down the road.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:04.559
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00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:28.320
Yeah, that's uh I like I like that because it does mirror learning that we never need to stop learning.
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It's very iterative process, culture never stops.
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You've said schools don't have an achievement problem, they've had a culture problem.
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Unpack that for parents who are so hyper-focused right now on grades and test scores.
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Why is it something deeper than just that?
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This is such a complicated conversation.
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There's so much that happens in the education world that will never make it to the news or to social media, either A, because it's not shareworthy enough, or B, because you legally can't talk about some of the things that the that the educators are really dealing with.
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And for me, I think when I hear parents talking really bad about a school, my first question is always, let me seek to understand.
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So I always want to be like, you know, have you asked to go up there?
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And most of the time that answer is no.
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Like it's all secondhand information, or my kid told me.
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And you know, I got I got children of my own.
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I don't believe anything they say when it comes to experiences at other places until I've gone to investigate.
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And I think that's something that shifted culturally, especially in the United States.
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I I don't know about worldwide, but in the United States, it's very much of a my child said you wronged them.
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I am coming at you.
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And and it's I that to me, oftentimes what I find is the kid may have had kernels of truth in their story, but not the whole truth.
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Right.
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And there's often a lot of things that go on in a story.
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Not this is not me saying that a teacher can't make a bad choice or an administrator can be cannot be supportive of parents.
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.119
Like those things happen too.
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:05.039
All that's part of it.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:13.680
But I think we should all have the perspective of let me seek to understand when I hear about, oh, my kids' teachers teaching this, let me go meet with them.
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.160
Let's not do it through an email, let's not do it through a phone call.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.480
Let me go ask questions without coming at them screaming or cursing or telling them what they are.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:24.160
Like, let me just go and say, hey, my kids said this, but I'm just trying to understand.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.079
Like, where is this, what, what happened?
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:27.599
How did this go on?
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.880
Um, and often and saying too, like, can I help?
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.759
Can I can I support you in any way?
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:42.480
I think what I hear now is teachers feel so come after by the news, by politicians, or by community that nobody's there supporting them.
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:52.319
We went through 2020 where everybody was cheering on doctors and teachers during the pandemic, and then things shifted for both groups when the pandemic seemed to subside.
00:18:52.480 --> 00:19:01.839
And so, again, just taking that perspective of how can I seek to understand instead of just coming at it so combative when you hear something you don't like.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:25.759
Because I mean, and one thing I think, for example, drive me bananas here in Texas, there was a law tried to be passed that litter boxes were not allowed in schools, and like that kind of stuff is so asinine and so untethered to reality that even when that senator who tried to pass that in our local state government was questioned about did you go to the school?
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:26.640
Like, did you ask?
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.000
No, I heard about it.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:29.680
Okay, well, well, did you go ask?
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.559
No, I I I I saw I saw somebody posted on social media, so I have major concerns.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:40.319
And that kind of stuff just drives me bananas because I'm like, is anybody going and asking questions or seeking?
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.599
No, they aren't.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:42.240
They aren't.
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:47.359
We just assume the clickable, the clickable things that get likes and views and shares.
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:57.279
And that's before agentic AI and like creation, like you know, the things we're seeing right now with the the war, I can't tell what's real and what's not.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.440
And now it's getting harder and harder.
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:10.960
If that makes sense, we joke, and you know, and we often joke, Joe, about people saying, like, oh, you know, my grandma got fooled by AI, and I'm just thinking, you know, last week I got fooled by AI, and now I don't trust anything.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.240
I have to go to like three different sources to be like, is this for real?
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.400
Or is this because even my wife will come out and say, I saw this, but I know.
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.079
Let me have you heard about this?
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:21.039
Where did you hear it?
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.039
Like, let's figure out if this is real or not.
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.680
But there's so many who don't, they just believe what they see.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.079
Um, and you talk about compassion fatigue, because I see that too.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.519
So I think I look at it as this.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:42.960
I look at schools were already under there, was there's been a low-key plot to just dislodge public education, have distrust in public education, unlock that money to privatize it, right?
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:44.480
There's a privatization movement.
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:50.240
Not there's anything wrong with private schools, but those funds flow into for-profit management stuff.
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.160
So we've gone through child charters, we've gone through vouchers, all these different things.
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.079
But like you said, COVID, we were heroes, and then we were villains.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:04.960
And there has just been this like slowly slow decline and the erosion of trust.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.720
We've lost a lot of good teachers from COVID.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.920
Yeah, there's burnout.
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.240
I look at I look, I try to make it as simple as possible.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:21.440
It's like, look at the entire world has now moved to flexible, like everything is flexible with workforce and things like that, where a lot of people are able to remote their depth, but schools are not.
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.759
Schools are very rigid and not and not flexible.
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.079
And so that does affect teachers in some aspect too.
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:32.240
But I think that combined with what you call, and I've heard this from multiple, uh, just the compassion fatigue.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:34.640
Um, and that's a silent epidemic in education.
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:42.000
Can you speak more to that about how burned out teachers it's uh ultimately going to affect student performance and what we need to do about it?
00:21:42.480 --> 00:22:01.920
You know, this this is what breaks my heart so much is talking to so many people who are so good at what they do, and I get blown away hearing their stories or seeing some of their lessons, and they don't feel adequate or they feel like Like, I'm not that great.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:07.440
Like, I'm not getting my kids where they need, or this person's coming down on me, or anything like that.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:17.119
And I'm seeing too that you know, we we love teachers love kids, they love working with kids, they love seeing those light bulb moments go off.
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:29.599
But there is a lot coming down on people where it is exhausting to deal with the trauma all the time and to not be given the right supports to deal with that.
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:44.640
And that's one of the things I see being defunded most quickly and being taken out most quickly, are all those things that help with the discipline and the behavior and and the many things that our students bring to school.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:55.279
Um, in addition to this rally against public education and putting funds into other places, also exacerbates that issue.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.759
And so I think there's so many good teachers who are leaving because they're like, I don't know what else to do, Todd.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:11.519
Like I'm pouring every piece of myself into this, and I'm doing A, B, C, D that I've been told to do, but I'm not seeing change because there's other things in the system that are working against me.
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:16.240
Or I have this administrator coming down about this new initiative that we have to do.
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:17.599
Now, how am I supposed to do their stuff?
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:24.480
Or I have this student behaving in this way, but the law says I can't do anything about that behavior, and that's keeping my kids from learning.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:31.440
And so it it is it is hard being in education right now, and and it's not just hard for teachers.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.240
I I want to make sure too that I speak up for the administrators.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:45.599
Um, that's one of those really misunderstood positions until you've been in that position, but it's really hard for administrators right now and the type of heat they take for a lot of decisions they don't even have any control over.
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:55.440
And so I think the best thing that people can do right now that are not in education is just finding ways to support and build up those people and seeing what do we need to rally against?
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:57.519
What do we need to vote and change?
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:04.079
Like our votes really matter, and there's not enough of us in education using our voices to impact things.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.839
But it's a really hard question and a really difficult solution.
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.440
It's kind of like the Titanic.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:17.440
It's gonna take a while to turn, and we've been trying to turn this ship for a while, but it's a it's a really old, really big ship to turn.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:24.240
Your newest book, Building Authenticity, argues that you are who you are is how you lead.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:29.680
What does authentic leadership look like in education and what does uh the fake version look like?
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:36.000
You know, I think authentic leadership looks like something I mentioned earlier, which is one of the big things is owning up to your mistakes.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:45.759
I think we have far too many leaders in any field right now who are quick to blame, who are quick to not apologize.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.559
And I find an apology really powerful.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:55.200
I find ownership of mistakes very empowering because not only does it let people know that, you know, the buck does stop with me.
00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:01.680
I need to own this, but also it lets them see that they can make mistakes too, own them and keep moving forward.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.799
They don't have to be fearful that they're gonna be blamed for something.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:06.400
Um, so that's one of the big things.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.920
And the next thing when it comes to leadership is leadership doesn't just happen at work.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.200
And sometimes we pigeonhole the definition into how we lead at work.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:16.000
But the reality is leadership happens within our families at home.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.240
Leadership also happens within our friendship circles.
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:27.200
And when Tyler Cook and I were writing this book, that was one of the big things we wanted to focus is how do we grow our leadership capacity at work, at home, and with our friends?
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.480
Because all of that matters, because what's going on in my household affects how I am at work.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:37.839
What's happening at work plays into how I am when I'm with my friends, like it's all connected.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:51.519
And so I think authentic leadership means showing up as you, showing up the full version of you, however flawed it is, but knowing you know what, I don't have all the answers, but I'm here to work with you, and well, I'm here to make this freaking awesome.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.839
Like to me, that's authentic leadership.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:04.480
It's it's not this plastic smile, this this toxic positivity, this hold up in an office all day long while delegating everything.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:09.920
Like that's a form of leadership, yeah, but it's not the leadership I want to aspire to.
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:11.279
Okay.
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:16.319
Well, I'm gonna take it into the rapid fire part of this podcast.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.480
So if you're ready for that, let's do it.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:19.680
Five questions.
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:27.119
First thing that comes to mind, no need to explain if you don't want one book that changed how you think about leadership.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.640
Oh my god.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.160
Chip and Dan Heath's book, The Power of Moments.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.519
That was a really and that's not an education book.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.559
Yeah, it isn't, right?
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.599
That was one that I loved when I read it.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:43.279
It was like, oh my god, like all this makes so much sense and is so brilliant.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.599
If you could go back and tell first year principal Todd one thing, what would it be?
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.039
I wouldn't tell myself just one thing.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:56.160
I have a sentence, and that would be shut up, listen to more people, and delegation is a strength.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:00.960
You don't have to carry the load completely on your own just because you have the title of principal.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:04.400
What's one thing parents overthink about their kids' school?
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:05.200
Hmm.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:11.359
That they're trying to brainwash them to believe something or some or something like that.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.920
I think that that is such a farce into what educat.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.880
I'm just like, do you know how many standards I have to teach?
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:18.720
Do you know how much I have to get ready for?
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.039
Like, I ain't got time to add the extra stuff in.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.720
Like, this is this is what I'm teaching, what the state mandated me.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:31.519
So I think oftentimes people will overthink what is being taught at schools, and we have such clear standards that that's what's being taught.
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.400
What's one thing they underthink?
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:50.960
The importance of social emotional learning, the importance of their kids also having a piece of their education be how to manage working with different personalities, how to manage their own emotions and thought processes, and and how to look at their own self-esteem.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:56.799
I think that that is one that is not considered or talked about enough in a positive light by the public at large.
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:02.160
And then finally, worst advice you hear school leaders giving right now.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.839
Oh Lord.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:06.160
Remember your why.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:14.240
I think that that is one, and I I know I see it bash all the time, but remembering your why doesn't fix the challenges in the system.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:22.240
And I think that too many leaders wanna wanna pep talk, but don't want to say, hey, this does suck right now.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:27.519
Like let's all let's all admit it, let's all own it, and let's move through it.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:31.599
Like, let's not live in the suck, but let's let's how do we move forward?
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.839
And I think that this whole idea of, oh no, you know what, just remember your why.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.720
It's like, yeah, I remember I love working with kids, but hello, these things are screwing up my day.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.279
Right.
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:43.200
Well, Todd, it's been a pleasure.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.200
Thank you so much for coming on.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.119
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.039
What uh what's one thing you wish I asked that I didn't get a chance to?
00:28:52.000 --> 00:29:03.680
Um, I think for me, it it would just be, you know, what do I hope people take away from anything that I'm a part of, any conversation or book or podcaster or webinar, or whatever that I do.
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:13.759
And I think for me, it's just I want people, anytime I have a chance to speak with someone or a group, I always want to leave with that reminder that you are here for a reason.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:21.519
Sometimes we're so defeated by the negative and what we're doing wrong that we forget that you are freaking amazing.
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.880
Like you have so many gifts that this world needs.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.279
And if you don't believe that, then you've let the ignorant take it from you.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:35.519
You own your greatness, you own your brilliance because you are exactly where you're meant to be.
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:44.000
And I think for anybody listening, I hope that that is the one takeaway they have that you are doing what you were meant to do in this moment.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:47.200
So own it and go be amazing.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.359
What's next for you?
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:51.599
I have no idea.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.759
You know, for me, it's just continuing to do what I do better.
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:02.559
I want to be a better speaker, I want to write better, I want to create new things that help people.
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:09.599
For me, I I just I love educators and I love education, but I love working with people, period.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:16.640
And I think for me, it's just continuing to understand how can I impact as many lives in a positive way as possible?
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:22.319
Because that's what fuels me when I get to see people believe in who they are and what they're capable of.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.039
And so, how can I continue to grow that impact?
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.000
So, Todd, where can where can people listening find more about you?
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.000
Where can they get in contact with you?
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.920
Yeah, so I've got a website called toddnesloney.com.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.480
If you don't know how to spell Nestlone, you can just Google it.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.640
It'll it'll come up no matter how you spell it.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.599
Um, but all my social media blogs, books, resources, webinar, everything's on there.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:47.119
So that's the easiest place.
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.480
But on most social media, I'm Tech Ninja Todd.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:58.880
Because when social media was getting started, I was all up into the tech, and we all had creative names, and so that's what I'm stuck with till to this day.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:04.079
Well, Todd, thank you so much again for coming on, and uh, we'll see you next time.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:05.200
Thank you so much.
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:06.640
Have a good one.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.039
Thanks for joining us on the supported learning podcast.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:19.359
If today's conversation inspired you, challenged you, or sparked a new perspective, be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.920
We'll be back soon with more voices, more insight, and more ways to elevate the future of learning together.
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.599
Until then, keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward.
00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:08.800
You're listening to the Support Ed Learning Podcast, where we challenge the status quo of education and reimagine what learning should be.
00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:09.439
I'm Dr.
00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:19.199
Joe Sebastian, and in every episode we dive into critical thinking, Bloom's Taxonomy, educational innovation, and how AI is shaping the future of learning.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:27.359
Whether you're a teacher, parent, policymaker, or lifelong learner, you're in the right place to rethink, reshape, and revive education.
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:31.839
All right, welcome back to the Supported Learning Podcast.
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.200
I am your host, Dr.
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:34.240
Joe Sebastian.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:37.600
I am joined by a very special guest today, Todd Nesslone.
00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:38.960
Todd, welcome.
00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:39.840
How are you?
00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:40.640
I'm good.
00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:41.600
I'm excited to be here.
00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:42.320
Thanks for having me.
00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:43.520
Excited for having you.
00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:44.799
Thanks for making time.
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:50.719
So, Todd, let me kind of go over your bio here for our viewers and our audience listening.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:01:00.880
You are the Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership, Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association, an international keynote speaker, best-selling author.
00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:16.079
You have a seven-year classroom teacher who leaps straight into the principal's office at Webb Elementary, and you transform that, which is 85% minority, 90% free and reduced lunch from a struggling campus into a nationally recognized model of innovation and culture.
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:27.280
The BAMI Award winner for both National Elementary Principal of the Year and National Elementary Teacher of the Year.
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:28.159
The John C.
00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:53.200
Maxwell Top 10 finalists for the 2018 Transformational Leadership Award, NSBA 20, so New Schools 20 to watch, and Center for Digital Education, top 40 innovators, two-time TEDx speaker, and you authored seven books with the bestseller Kids Deserve It and Stories from the Web, Sparks in the Dark, When Kids Lead and Newest, and your creator of Culture Unleashed online course for school leaders.
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.280
Wow, that is very, very impressive.
00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.680
So uh did I do that justice, at least.
00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:58.480
You did.
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:00.319
It's always so uncomfortable to hear all that.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:03.519
But yes, I I I I have I've I've been busy.
00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:04.959
Yeah, it's awesome.
00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:11.680
I mean, so in your sh, you know, not necessarily a relatively long amount of time education, but you definitely have made an impact.
00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:23.360
But, you know, if we could kind of go back to before the books, before the elementary, like who you who you were as a classroom teacher for those seven years, and what kind of teacher were you, and when did you realize you wanted to lead?
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.960
You know, I never thought I'd be a teacher growing up.
00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:30.400
I mean, I had many different things I was into, wasn't really sure.
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.840
I knew in junior high or so that I loved working with kids.
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:35.840
So I wanted to work with kids in some capacity.
00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:42.639
At that point, I thought, you know, social work, that's where I can make the biggest impact on some of our most vulnerable uh kids.
00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:53.039
And so I started learning a lot about that job and realized I can't separate myself so emotionally enough from that work to be successful and be a real person outside of that.
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.479
So I thought, well, you know, I have a lot of my family that's in education.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.120
I think that's another great way I can impact kids.
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.319
So became a teacher, absolutely loved it.
00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:09.520
I knew that I wanted to be a certain type of teacher because I in school I was never really in trouble.
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:13.439
I knew if I did get in trouble, my mom would handle me when I got home.
00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:18.159
So I made sure that I got A's and B's, I behaved, I respected my teachers.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:29.599
But because of that, I kind of was that student who always did what you expected, so was easy to ignore while you focused on the kids that were discipline issues or the kids that were academic issues.
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:32.960
And so I don't really remember any of my teachers from school.
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:35.840
I don't remember any experiences really.
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:45.680
And so I knew that when I became a teacher, I really wanted to find that whole avenue of how can I be for kids what I never had myself.
00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.719
So that's kind of the teacher I wanted to be was this one who did creative, out-of-the-box things.
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Like I love being different, but I wanted to make sure that relationships were at the core of everything that I did.
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I love that.
00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:08.240
And you made the, I mean, I, you know, it's not unheard of for elementary, but you made the jump straight from teacher to principal without a stop at the assistant level in between.
00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.000
Um, what was that like?
00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.479
And uh what drove that decision?
00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:23.199
You know, I was in, I was teaching, and this university came to our school and said, Hey, your district signed a deal where y'all can get a discount by getting your master's.
00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.560
And I was like, I mean, I don't, I don't want to go back to school.
00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:28.800
Like, I'm happy with the degree that I have.
00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.279
And then my whole team was like, hey, let's all do it together.
00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:33.199
And I said, okay, I can do this with a group.
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:38.879
Like, I will do this just because I want to be the first person in my family with a master's.
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:40.639
Like, that was my only goal.
00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:44.079
I was not looking to move into leadership or anything like that.
00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:58.319
And so I got my master's, and then a lot of the things that I was doing was at that education explosion on social media, you know, when it was all positive and connecting with other people and building that network.
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:01.040
And I was getting recognition for different things that I was doing.
00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.800
And so I went back and I said, you know what?
00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:08.480
Maybe leadership is for me, but I don't really know what I want to do or how I want to do it.
00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:11.600
And one day I got a Twitter direct message back when this was Twitter.
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:19.439
I know it's X now, but I got a Twitter direct message from an assistant superintendent who just said, Hey, we love the work we see online.
00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:23.839
We're actually looking for a principal to take over this school that's been underperforming.
00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:25.120
Would you be interested?
00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:26.079
And I said no.
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.319
Like I was like, actually, I'm like, I love what I'm doing right now, no interest.
00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:30.879
Thanks.
00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:31.519
I'm good.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.759
And they kept reaching out and I kept turning them down.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.800
And then they reached out one final time and said, Hey, we won't bother you getting up to this.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.319
We just want to make sure you know, like, you get to hire your entire staff.
00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:42.319
Does that interest you at all?
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.040
And I was like, Well, that's like like a dream creation experience in my head.
00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.600
So I was like, let me go interview, learn more about them.
00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.560
Went through several rounds of interviews, ended up getting the job.
00:05:52.639 --> 00:06:03.120
Um, and then it was just a crazy whirlwind from there, going straight from classroom teacher to principal, which I would not recommend for most people.
00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:05.920
Um, yeah, I described it like a rose.
00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:13.839
It was a beautiful experience, but there were a lot of thorns that I could have avoided had I had different experiences in other places as well.
00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:20.560
So, yeah, so I guess you step foot into this elementary school and it's basically a turnaround.
00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:21.519
What was that like?
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:22.879
Where did you start?
00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:30.560
You know, it's funny because the first year I was hired, it was or the year I was hired, I was hired to be principal of an intermediate campus.
00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:32.720
So it was a fifth and sixth grade campus.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:45.519
And the unique thing about that school district is they had a couple little underperforming areas, but part of the issue was they had a pre-K through fifth grade campus, a four-five campus, and a pre-K through three campus.
00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.000
So it was very confusing their configurations.
00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.600
So after I had been principal for a year at the intermediate, they said, you know what?
00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:52.959
We're gonna level everything out.
00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:56.319
We're gonna make all three schools pre-K through fifth grade.
00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:03.600
And that means we're gonna have a one school that's giant with like 800 kids, while the other ones have between three to 400.
00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:05.680
And you did a really good job at intermediate.
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:07.759
They need a new principal over at the 800 one.
00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:09.279
We're gonna move you over there.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.480
You can take some of your staff, but you're also gonna combine it with all theirs.
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.680
And that's where I've spent the next four years was at Webb Elementary.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.360
So I just said that one year at the intermediate and then four years at Webb.
00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:27.519
But it was it was a beautiful experience for me, really honing my understanding of what it takes to build culture.
00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:35.759
Because I think it would have been one thing had I just walked into a school where I got to bring all the people together or or they were already a really positive space.
00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:49.680
It really challenged me and forced me to grow by being put into an environment where some of the people already knew me, others didn't know me, but didn't want a new administrator, but they didn't have a choice, and other people didn't know what was happening.
00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:52.079
Like there was a lot of different things going on.
00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:59.120
But I'm really thankful for that process because, like I said, I think it really forced me to grow into the kind of leader I wanted to be.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:07.279
So you've built school culture through programs like special, morning meetings, student ambassadors, and you matter letters.
00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:14.959
How do you see innovation and technology fitting into your culture first approach or that culture-first approach for that matter for other principals?
00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:19.040
You know, for me, I think it always goes back to something I mentioned earlier.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.399
It's I want to be different.
00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:25.199
I think there's a lot of positive things to look at in the way things have been done before.
00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:34.399
And I think there's always lessons we can keep by some of the things we've done before, but I also want to not be afraid or not be beholden to doing it the way it's always been done.
00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:40.720
I want to be uncomfortable because I am that firm believer that if you are not uncomfortable, you're not learning.
00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:53.360
And I tell people all the time, how dare we as educators walk into schools and demand that kids learn all day, every day, if we're not also continuing our own learning.
00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:02.399
So I always want to be pushing myself and trying new things, whether that is technology tools, whether that is how to build better relationships, changing the way systems look, like anything.
00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:04.240
I'm not afraid to ask questions.
00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:11.120
But I think one thing too that's really important to me is understanding that owning your failures is part of the growth.
00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.080
And I'm real big on taking those swings.
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.440
And I have no problem with saying that did not work.
00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:19.440
Like, let's look, let's figure out why.
00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:21.919
Like, I don't want to do it again if it's not meant to work.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.279
But if it is meant to work and we just did it wrong, what can we change?
00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:26.639
Like, what can we do differently?
00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:39.120
And I've got so many things that I can think back on in my career that were successful, that were only successful because I failed first and had to learn from that failure to then make it what it became.
00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:45.759
Yeah, I mean, culture is so important in the district, especially at the elementary level, because you know, it's exciting learning.
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.759
Learning is exciting at that level, but making sure all feel that, right?
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:52.559
Or have that environment that it's safe so that kids can learn.
00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:59.120
And you you talk about you one of your favorite things you teach is calling parents to praise their kids, not just when they're a problem.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:02.240
How does that flip the uh parent-school dynamic?
00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:06.320
And uh what happens when schools can actually commit to that process?
00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:13.919
You know, I I think sometimes when we think about these culture ideas, we think that they have to have money or these huge initiatives that just take up so much extra time.
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:18.879
And I love that you bring this one up because this is such an easy one that anyone can do.
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:23.919
Many times when we talk about things, people will say, my team would never, my administrator would never.
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:25.679
Like, that's why we can't do these things.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:29.679
And this idea specifically, it's like you don't need to wait on anybody.
00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:36.080
Like, I don't care what your job is at that school, you can call the families of kids to tell them their kids are amazing.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:39.200
And so I think for me, it just came back to looking at data.
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:47.679
We were noticing that no matter what initiatives we put in place, some of our most frequent flyers, our most misbehaving kids, the behavior wasn't changing.
00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.240
And so I started thinking about, you know, let's look at the research.
00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:53.120
Research shows that people want to feel good.
00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:55.200
They all have three things in common.
00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:56.799
Every single human on this planet.
00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.559
We want to feel seen, we want to feel valued, and we want to feel heard.
00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:05.440
And so I started thinking, how can we make sure we're meeting one of those needs for some of these kids?
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.679
Maybe that's why the behavior isn't changing.
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.679
They're not feeling seen, valued, or heard at any point during the day.
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.559
And so I thought, well, let's do something super easy.
00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:19.919
Like it feels so special when someone calls someone that you love to tell them you're amazing.
00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:21.279
And it was unexpected.
00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:24.879
And so I started working with my team and I encouraged them to do it.
00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.879
But again, I believe that as a leader, I've got to leave my example.
00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:32.240
So I also started making sure that I called parents.
00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:37.200
We had an initiative called Hats Off Cards, where every staff member got six cards a week.
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:40.000
And it was like by the end of the week, you should have handed out all these to kids.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:47.759
When a kid gets one, they come to the office, we celebrate them real big, and then I always get to call and tell their loved one how amazing they are, and then send them right back to class.
00:11:47.919 --> 00:12:01.360
Like it was never more than a 20-second endeavor, but we watched behavior just get transformed across campus, and I completely credit it to the combined effort of people, all people making those phone calls.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:14.559
And then watching the families and their reactions with us change was pretty amazing as well to get to see families or parents break down in tears over the phone over a simple phone call.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:34.799
And learning and experiencing in that moment that that was the first time their kid had been maybe in fifth grade, and the first time they got a call from somebody at school that wasn't about homework not being done or a grade not being there or misbehavior, and to just feel like somebody's calling to celebrate you for your child, that's a moving moment.
00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:43.039
And for some of my team, myself included, you know, like I said, I wasn't in trouble in school, so I didn't get a lot of those negative phone calls.
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:57.840
And so I think not coming from an environment of being always in trouble, I didn't understand truly how powerful that was going to be for those kids who were always hearing the negative and those families who were always hearing the negative.
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:07.360
And to have that moment where somebody finally lifted them up, it was such an emotional experience that I was so moved that I was like, this is not an age connected thing.
00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:08.960
Like, this can be done anywhere.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.279
So, like, I started calling staff members families and celebrating them.
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:21.200
And that to me was even more exciting than calling kids because adults are so less celebrated than kids are.
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:30.080
And that was another really powerful thing for me to experience was that that moment when an adult is in tears because their loved one was called.
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:34.639
And as an adult, that had never happened where our supervisor had called someone just to tell them they're amazing.
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.679
So I think those kind of simple things are we forget.
00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.840
We think everything has to be big, extraordinary, grand, all these things.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:46.000
And it's often in the quiet little moments that the biggest change happens.
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:55.600
So, Todd, you've now shaped leadership development for over 6,000 schools across Texas through is it TIPSA or do you got T E P S A?
00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:56.879
TEPSA, TEPSA.
00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:58.320
TEPSA, okay, cool.
00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:03.759
Um, from that vantage point, what is the single biggest thing schools are getting wrong about culture right now?
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:11.440
You know, that's such an interesting question because I don't even know that I would phrase it as getting wrong about culture.
00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:20.720
Oftentimes, what I find is, especially in 2026, when we are recording this conversation, education is under attack.
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:39.600
And not only is and and and I'll speak worldwide, nationally, but also from a Texas perspective, it's under attack financially, it's under attack curriculum-wise, also discrediting the knowledge base of an educator and what it requires to go to school and be a great educator.
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.360
Um, and it's just emotionally exhausting.
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:51.600
And I think that when I see a culture that's not the best at a school, often there are multiple things at play.
00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:57.840
There is a community that has not been well educated in what that school really is doing with those kids.
00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:05.200
There is often a central office that has not been well educated in what's really happening on that school every day.
00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:15.600
Sometimes it's a school administration who hasn't understood the power of relationships and how that's just as important as the instructional practices.
00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:28.720
And sometimes there's just a lot of hurt or burnt out teachers who have never had anybody invest in them in a way that felt authentic and in a way that didn't feel like just checking a box.
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.519
And so there's lots of ways to look at this.
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.480
So I don't definitely want to just put it in one big box.
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:39.200
But building up culture, it's one of those things that it's never freaking done.
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.399
Like you're always having to do it.
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:48.960
And I think for some, we're just so tired that adding that in feels like one more thing because they haven't seen that.
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.799
When you're building up culture, it's actually gonna take things off your plate down the road.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:04.559
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00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:28.320
Yeah, that's uh I like I like that because it does mirror learning that we never need to stop learning.
00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:30.720
It's very iterative process, culture never stops.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.399
You've said schools don't have an achievement problem, they've had a culture problem.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:40.240
Unpack that for parents who are so hyper-focused right now on grades and test scores.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.039
Why is it something deeper than just that?
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.960
This is such a complicated conversation.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:17:01.840
There's so much that happens in the education world that will never make it to the news or to social media, either A, because it's not shareworthy enough, or B, because you legally can't talk about some of the things that the that the educators are really dealing with.
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:10.079
And for me, I think when I hear parents talking really bad about a school, my first question is always, let me seek to understand.
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.519
So I always want to be like, you know, have you asked to go up there?
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:15.440
And most of the time that answer is no.
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.200
Like it's all secondhand information, or my kid told me.
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:22.079
And you know, I got I got children of my own.
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:27.680
I don't believe anything they say when it comes to experiences at other places until I've gone to investigate.
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:32.400
And I think that's something that shifted culturally, especially in the United States.
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:37.680
I I don't know about worldwide, but in the United States, it's very much of a my child said you wronged them.
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:39.519
I am coming at you.
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:50.480
And and it's I that to me, oftentimes what I find is the kid may have had kernels of truth in their story, but not the whole truth.
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:50.799
Right.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:55.279
And there's often a lot of things that go on in a story.
00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:01.680
Not this is not me saying that a teacher can't make a bad choice or an administrator can be cannot be supportive of parents.
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.119
Like those things happen too.
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:05.039
All that's part of it.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:13.680
But I think we should all have the perspective of let me seek to understand when I hear about, oh, my kids' teachers teaching this, let me go meet with them.
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.160
Let's not do it through an email, let's not do it through a phone call.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.480
Let me go ask questions without coming at them screaming or cursing or telling them what they are.
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:24.160
Like, let me just go and say, hey, my kids said this, but I'm just trying to understand.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.079
Like, where is this, what, what happened?
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:27.599
How did this go on?
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.880
Um, and often and saying too, like, can I help?
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.759
Can I can I support you in any way?
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:42.480
I think what I hear now is teachers feel so come after by the news, by politicians, or by community that nobody's there supporting them.
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:52.319
We went through 2020 where everybody was cheering on doctors and teachers during the pandemic, and then things shifted for both groups when the pandemic seemed to subside.
00:18:52.480 --> 00:19:01.839
And so, again, just taking that perspective of how can I seek to understand instead of just coming at it so combative when you hear something you don't like.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:25.759
Because I mean, and one thing I think, for example, drive me bananas here in Texas, there was a law tried to be passed that litter boxes were not allowed in schools, and like that kind of stuff is so asinine and so untethered to reality that even when that senator who tried to pass that in our local state government was questioned about did you go to the school?
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:26.640
Like, did you ask?
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.000
No, I heard about it.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:29.680
Okay, well, well, did you go ask?
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.559
No, I I I I saw I saw somebody posted on social media, so I have major concerns.
00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:40.319
And that kind of stuff just drives me bananas because I'm like, is anybody going and asking questions or seeking?
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.599
No, they aren't.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:42.240
They aren't.
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:47.359
We just assume the clickable, the clickable things that get likes and views and shares.
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:57.279
And that's before agentic AI and like creation, like you know, the things we're seeing right now with the the war, I can't tell what's real and what's not.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.440
And now it's getting harder and harder.
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:10.960
If that makes sense, we joke, and you know, and we often joke, Joe, about people saying, like, oh, you know, my grandma got fooled by AI, and I'm just thinking, you know, last week I got fooled by AI, and now I don't trust anything.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.240
I have to go to like three different sources to be like, is this for real?
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.400
Or is this because even my wife will come out and say, I saw this, but I know.
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.079
Let me have you heard about this?
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:21.039
Where did you hear it?
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.039
Like, let's figure out if this is real or not.
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.680
But there's so many who don't, they just believe what they see.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.079
Um, and you talk about compassion fatigue, because I see that too.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.519
So I think I look at it as this.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:42.960
I look at schools were already under there, was there's been a low-key plot to just dislodge public education, have distrust in public education, unlock that money to privatize it, right?
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:44.480
There's a privatization movement.
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:50.240
Not there's anything wrong with private schools, but those funds flow into for-profit management stuff.
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.160
So we've gone through child charters, we've gone through vouchers, all these different things.
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.079
But like you said, COVID, we were heroes, and then we were villains.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:04.960
And there has just been this like slowly slow decline and the erosion of trust.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.720
We've lost a lot of good teachers from COVID.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.920
Yeah, there's burnout.
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.240
I look at I look, I try to make it as simple as possible.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:21.440
It's like, look at the entire world has now moved to flexible, like everything is flexible with workforce and things like that, where a lot of people are able to remote their depth, but schools are not.
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.759
Schools are very rigid and not and not flexible.
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.079
And so that does affect teachers in some aspect too.
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:32.240
But I think that combined with what you call, and I've heard this from multiple, uh, just the compassion fatigue.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:34.640
Um, and that's a silent epidemic in education.
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:42.000
Can you speak more to that about how burned out teachers it's uh ultimately going to affect student performance and what we need to do about it?
00:21:42.480 --> 00:22:01.920
You know, this this is what breaks my heart so much is talking to so many people who are so good at what they do, and I get blown away hearing their stories or seeing some of their lessons, and they don't feel adequate or they feel like Like, I'm not that great.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:07.440
Like, I'm not getting my kids where they need, or this person's coming down on me, or anything like that.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:17.119
And I'm seeing too that you know, we we love teachers love kids, they love working with kids, they love seeing those light bulb moments go off.
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:29.599
But there is a lot coming down on people where it is exhausting to deal with the trauma all the time and to not be given the right supports to deal with that.
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:44.640
And that's one of the things I see being defunded most quickly and being taken out most quickly, are all those things that help with the discipline and the behavior and and the many things that our students bring to school.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:55.279
Um, in addition to this rally against public education and putting funds into other places, also exacerbates that issue.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:59.759
And so I think there's so many good teachers who are leaving because they're like, I don't know what else to do, Todd.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:11.519
Like I'm pouring every piece of myself into this, and I'm doing A, B, C, D that I've been told to do, but I'm not seeing change because there's other things in the system that are working against me.
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:16.240
Or I have this administrator coming down about this new initiative that we have to do.
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:17.599
Now, how am I supposed to do their stuff?
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:24.480
Or I have this student behaving in this way, but the law says I can't do anything about that behavior, and that's keeping my kids from learning.
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:31.440
And so it it is it is hard being in education right now, and and it's not just hard for teachers.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.240
I I want to make sure too that I speak up for the administrators.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:45.599
Um, that's one of those really misunderstood positions until you've been in that position, but it's really hard for administrators right now and the type of heat they take for a lot of decisions they don't even have any control over.
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:55.440
And so I think the best thing that people can do right now that are not in education is just finding ways to support and build up those people and seeing what do we need to rally against?
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:57.519
What do we need to vote and change?
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:04.079
Like our votes really matter, and there's not enough of us in education using our voices to impact things.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.839
But it's a really hard question and a really difficult solution.
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.440
It's kind of like the Titanic.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:17.440
It's gonna take a while to turn, and we've been trying to turn this ship for a while, but it's a it's a really old, really big ship to turn.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:24.240
Your newest book, Building Authenticity, argues that you are who you are is how you lead.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:29.680
What does authentic leadership look like in education and what does uh the fake version look like?
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:36.000
You know, I think authentic leadership looks like something I mentioned earlier, which is one of the big things is owning up to your mistakes.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:45.759
I think we have far too many leaders in any field right now who are quick to blame, who are quick to not apologize.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.559
And I find an apology really powerful.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:55.200
I find ownership of mistakes very empowering because not only does it let people know that, you know, the buck does stop with me.
00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:01.680
I need to own this, but also it lets them see that they can make mistakes too, own them and keep moving forward.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.799
They don't have to be fearful that they're gonna be blamed for something.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:06.400
Um, so that's one of the big things.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.920
And the next thing when it comes to leadership is leadership doesn't just happen at work.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.200
And sometimes we pigeonhole the definition into how we lead at work.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:16.000
But the reality is leadership happens within our families at home.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.240
Leadership also happens within our friendship circles.
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:27.200
And when Tyler Cook and I were writing this book, that was one of the big things we wanted to focus is how do we grow our leadership capacity at work, at home, and with our friends?
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.480
Because all of that matters, because what's going on in my household affects how I am at work.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:37.839
What's happening at work plays into how I am when I'm with my friends, like it's all connected.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:51.519
And so I think authentic leadership means showing up as you, showing up the full version of you, however flawed it is, but knowing you know what, I don't have all the answers, but I'm here to work with you, and well, I'm here to make this freaking awesome.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.839
Like to me, that's authentic leadership.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:04.480
It's it's not this plastic smile, this this toxic positivity, this hold up in an office all day long while delegating everything.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:09.920
Like that's a form of leadership, yeah, but it's not the leadership I want to aspire to.
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:11.279
Okay.
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:16.319
Well, I'm gonna take it into the rapid fire part of this podcast.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:18.480
So if you're ready for that, let's do it.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:19.680
Five questions.
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:27.119
First thing that comes to mind, no need to explain if you don't want one book that changed how you think about leadership.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.640
Oh my god.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.160
Chip and Dan Heath's book, The Power of Moments.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.519
That was a really and that's not an education book.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.559
Yeah, it isn't, right?
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.599
That was one that I loved when I read it.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:43.279
It was like, oh my god, like all this makes so much sense and is so brilliant.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.599
If you could go back and tell first year principal Todd one thing, what would it be?
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.039
I wouldn't tell myself just one thing.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:56.160
I have a sentence, and that would be shut up, listen to more people, and delegation is a strength.
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:00.960
You don't have to carry the load completely on your own just because you have the title of principal.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:04.400
What's one thing parents overthink about their kids' school?
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:05.200
Hmm.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:11.359
That they're trying to brainwash them to believe something or some or something like that.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.920
I think that that is such a farce into what educat.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.880
I'm just like, do you know how many standards I have to teach?
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:18.720
Do you know how much I have to get ready for?
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.039
Like, I ain't got time to add the extra stuff in.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.720
Like, this is this is what I'm teaching, what the state mandated me.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:31.519
So I think oftentimes people will overthink what is being taught at schools, and we have such clear standards that that's what's being taught.
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.400
What's one thing they underthink?
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:50.960
The importance of social emotional learning, the importance of their kids also having a piece of their education be how to manage working with different personalities, how to manage their own emotions and thought processes, and and how to look at their own self-esteem.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:56.799
I think that that is one that is not considered or talked about enough in a positive light by the public at large.
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:02.160
And then finally, worst advice you hear school leaders giving right now.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.839
Oh Lord.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:06.160
Remember your why.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:14.240
I think that that is one, and I I know I see it bash all the time, but remembering your why doesn't fix the challenges in the system.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:22.240
And I think that too many leaders wanna wanna pep talk, but don't want to say, hey, this does suck right now.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:27.519
Like let's all let's all admit it, let's all own it, and let's move through it.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:31.599
Like, let's not live in the suck, but let's let's how do we move forward?
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.839
And I think that this whole idea of, oh no, you know what, just remember your why.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.720
It's like, yeah, I remember I love working with kids, but hello, these things are screwing up my day.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.279
Right.
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:43.200
Well, Todd, it's been a pleasure.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.200
Thank you so much for coming on.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.119
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.039
What uh what's one thing you wish I asked that I didn't get a chance to?
00:28:52.000 --> 00:29:03.680
Um, I think for me, it it would just be, you know, what do I hope people take away from anything that I'm a part of, any conversation or book or podcaster or webinar, or whatever that I do.
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:13.759
And I think for me, it's just I want people, anytime I have a chance to speak with someone or a group, I always want to leave with that reminder that you are here for a reason.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:21.519
Sometimes we're so defeated by the negative and what we're doing wrong that we forget that you are freaking amazing.
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.880
Like you have so many gifts that this world needs.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.279
And if you don't believe that, then you've let the ignorant take it from you.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:35.519
You own your greatness, you own your brilliance because you are exactly where you're meant to be.
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:44.000
And I think for anybody listening, I hope that that is the one takeaway they have that you are doing what you were meant to do in this moment.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:47.200
So own it and go be amazing.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.359
What's next for you?
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:51.599
I have no idea.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.759
You know, for me, it's just continuing to do what I do better.
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:02.559
I want to be a better speaker, I want to write better, I want to create new things that help people.
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:09.599
For me, I I just I love educators and I love education, but I love working with people, period.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:16.640
And I think for me, it's just continuing to understand how can I impact as many lives in a positive way as possible?
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:22.319
Because that's what fuels me when I get to see people believe in who they are and what they're capable of.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.039
And so, how can I continue to grow that impact?
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.000
So, Todd, where can where can people listening find more about you?
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.000
Where can they get in contact with you?
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.920
Yeah, so I've got a website called toddnesloney.com.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.480
If you don't know how to spell Nestlone, you can just Google it.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.640
It'll it'll come up no matter how you spell it.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.599
Um, but all my social media blogs, books, resources, webinar, everything's on there.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:47.119
So that's the easiest place.
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.480
But on most social media, I'm Tech Ninja Todd.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:58.880
Because when social media was getting started, I was all up into the tech, and we all had creative names, and so that's what I'm stuck with till to this day.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:04.079
Well, Todd, thank you so much again for coming on, and uh, we'll see you next time.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:05.200
Thank you so much.
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:06.640
Have a good one.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.039
Thanks for joining us on the supported learning podcast.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:19.359
If today's conversation inspired you, challenged you, or sparked a new perspective, be sure to subscribe and share with a fellow change maker.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.920
We'll be back soon with more voices, more insight, and more ways to elevate the future of learning together.
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.599
Until then, keep learning and keep pushing the conversation forward.
