Ready to Tack: Navigating Entrepreneurial Decisions with Alan Freeman

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The the other interesting piece about sailing is it is it teaches you to live with your decisions.
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Interesting.
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So sailing is it uh you you make decisions about whether you're gonna, for example, on the course, the sailing course, there's sides.
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There's a right side and there's a left side.
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I mean, no, no different than football.
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Correct.
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But on a sailboat, if you go to the right and then an hour later figure out you should have gone to the left, you gotta deal with it.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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And I think that life is very similar to that.
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Hi, everybody.
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Welcome back to the Response Able podcast.
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If you're joining us for the first time, welcome.
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It's so cool to have you here.
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This week I get to introduce you to Alan Freeman.
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Alan is a Northeastern University alumni.
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He is an entrepreneur and a supporter of entrepreneurs through investing and development of the ecosystem that entrepreneurs need to thrive.
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He's been living in Brazil, but he's back in Boston and will be joining me in class next week.
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And when we sat down to talk about what class would be like and what he was going to share, I was so inspired by his story.
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I asked him to come back and be on the podcast so I could share his story with all of you as well.
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So, Alan, thanks in advance for your wisdom and your time and being willing and open to share your story and journey with us.
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So, everyone, let's jump in.
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Welcome.
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Thank you for coming.
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Well, thank you for extending the invitation.
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I'm very happy to be here.
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Yes, and I'm excited that you're also going to be jumping into my class next week.
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Yes.
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Which is super exciting.
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So, all you students that are listening to this for homework, listen up so that you have lots of great questions.
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But welcome, Ellen.
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So, my very first question for you, super easy or maybe not so easy.
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Who are you?
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So that's a great question.
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Probably because I've been trying to figure that out for the better part of the last 40 years.
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Haven't we all?
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Professionally, I mean, entrepreneur and investor and entrepreneurs.
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Now, I I designed my life so that there's not a very fun, a very bold and bright line between my professional life and my personal life.
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So I I guess I consider myself I live an integrated life.
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Yeah.
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And so and so there's good sides and there's bad sides.
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And the good side is, I think, is that there's no five o'clock.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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When I I remember when I was you probably remember Fridays, the restaurant, right?
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Well, it used to be thank God it's Fridays.
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And I I never understood why.
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Because to me, Friday and Saturday are just another two days of the week.
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Uh-huh.
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And so, because I just do what I gotta get to do to get things done.
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Right.
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And uh, if it's five o'clock, I don't care.
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Uh-huh.
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So anyway, uh the point is that I'm an entrepreneur, an investor and entrepreneur who lives an integrated life.
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So there's really only one of me.
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Okay.
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Absolutely.
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And is entrepreneurship your hobby as well as your profession, or do you have any obscure hobbies that you want to share with us?
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Well, I guess the shareable ones.
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Oh my gosh, we're starting here.
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No, I've been racing sailboats my entire life.
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Oh, amazing.
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And yeah, and so that that has always been not only a great outlet for energy, but it's it's a it's a a relaxing experience to separate yourself physically from the world, and your primary focus is on the shape of a sail.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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And how can you make this boat go faster?
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Right.
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So it tends to be very relaxing as well as as well as fun.
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And probably keeps you like connected and grounded as well, because you're physically and mentally in the one place at the one time.
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Yeah, you have to be.
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You have to be.
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And and and and and it it's also a great team building sport.
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Yeah.
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Because it's impos, especially on a bigger boat, you can't do it all yourself.
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Yeah.
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So you have to work with a team.
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You have to communicate to everybody about what their role is and what you're thinking and how they need to pull or push or raise or lower so that the boat will go faster.
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The the other interesting piece about sailing is it is it teaches you to live with your decisions.
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Interesting.
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So sailing is it uh you you make decisions about whether you're gonna, for example, on the course, the sailing course, there's sides.
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There's a right side and there's a left side.
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I mean, no, no different than football.
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Correct.
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But on a sailboat, if you go to the right and then an hour later figure out you should have gone to the left, you got to deal with it.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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And I think that life is very similar to that.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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You make decisions and you start moving down a direction, and it may not turn out like you thought it was going to.
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Right.
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And so you can't just go home and cry.
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You have to You're stuck in the middle of the ocean.
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You have to deal.
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Oh my gosh.
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So it's you tack when you change sides, right?
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So you have to like tack and correct yourself essentially like a pivot.
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A pivot.
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So that's so that's exactly what it is in the startup world or in business.
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You have to pivot.
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Yeah.
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Like this direction's not doing it for us anymore.
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So if you keep doing the same thing and expect different results, that's commonly known as insanity.
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Yeah.
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So you don't do that, right?
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So you tack.
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Yeah.
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Or you pivot.
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Yeah.
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And then you gotta fight your way back.
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Yes.
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You gotta fight your way over to the other side of the course, which you've realized is the preferred side of the course based on the wind direction and a number of other factors.
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Yeah.
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No, that's so good.
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And it all comes back down to rehearship at the end of the day.
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I also feel the need to ask if you've ever been to the Sydney to Hobart.
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Yes.
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You have?
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Okay.
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I've seen the start a couple of times.
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Haven't seen the end ever, but the start is spectacular.
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Yes.
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So I've been to both Sydney and Hobart.
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Okay.
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But not for the race.
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Oh no.
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Okay.
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So I I when I said yes, I I answered the wrong a different question.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Well, I mean, it is, it's the day after Christmas when it gets started.
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So it's not necessarily a family-friendly time of year to be like, peace out, I'm going, I'm going to Australia.
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So uh so you know there's there's a there's great stories about how difficult this race is because of the conditions.
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Yes.
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And I didn't really understand the magnitude of these conditions until we took the ferry from Melbourne to Tasmania.
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Oh, yeah.
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The strait.
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The strait.
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And so and so so it's an overnight, it's an overnight boat ride, right?
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Yeah.
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And by the way, it's not a boat.
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Like you walk up to this to this thing and the bow is like 40 feet tall.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And you walk up to it and you think, what, what, what are we doing with this?
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It looks like an ice cutter, right?
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Like and you're thinking, man, this is not your regular ferry boat, right?
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And you realize why at like two o'clock in the morning.
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Right.
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When this boat, it's not a boat, it's a ship.
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It's like 200 feet long.
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It's rocking and rolling like a baby's crib, right?
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And you're thinking, how big must these waves be to throw this 200-foot boat around?
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And then I try to put myself in a 40-foot boat or a 60-foot boat and think, whoa.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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That's a challenge.
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It's not for the faint of heart.
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No.
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But anyway, we digress, but I love it.
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Sailing is great and it has great lessons.
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My dad grew up as a sailor.
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I did a little tiny, tiny bit of sailing when I was little.
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I am by no means an expert, but I do understand some of the basics.
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But so you are an entrepreneur and a supporter of entrepreneurs, but let's go back.
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How did that all begin?
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You are a Northeastern alumni.
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So what did you study?
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So I studied engineering at at Northeastern, largely influenced by my father, who at the time felt like if you got an engineering degree, everything's gonna be all right.
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Right.
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Right?
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I mean, that just goes It was a safe plan.
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It was a very reliable plan until you realize that you don't like engineering.
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So it was it's really good on paper, right?
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Right.
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So you you start going to the right side of the course and then you realize I'm three years into an engineering degree, and guess what?
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And I'm not really excited, that excited about being an engineer.
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Right.
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So you have to pivot to get back to where you want to go.
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Right.
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And so But still finish.
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But because you can't quit engineering school after the third year.
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That's the worst part is behind you.
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Yeah.
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So you gotta you gotta rough it out.
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You gotta get done and stack it, like then get an AO something in the new direction.
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And so my first tack was to shw shift from mechanical engineering to industrial engineering.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay.
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And the reason being is that in especially in the last two years, the industrial engineering curriculum gave you access to electives that were more business oriented.
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Right.
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Okay.
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And so I looked at I saw that as the the first direction back to where I really would like to be.
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Okay.
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While still getting an engineering degree to go back.
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Yes.
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And so you you did that tack like almost pre-graduation.
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Oh yeah.
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Was the first job more entrepreneurial or was it a mix of both?
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What did you do when you first got out of Northeastern?
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Well, uh, so I think the story starts while I'm at Northeastern.
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Well, forget about you know delivering newspapers and raking lawns, right?
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You know, but what when I came to when I came to Northeast, I came to Northeastern because of the co-op program.
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Okay.
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And my my first opportunity was with a company called Singer, which probably everyone knows as the sewing machine manufacturing company, right?
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Well, at the time, Singer was had a division that manufactured military equipment.
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Okay.
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And so I worked uh as an industrial engineer, because I had already made the shift in a new production, developing a new production line for you ready for this?
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It's a mouthful, ring laser gyroscopes.
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And they do what exactly?
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They replace the old gyroscopes.
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I don't know if you've ever if you remember the old gyroscopes that like spun at at some ridiculous speed.
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Okay.
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So the problem with those gyroscopes is they take like 30 minutes to warm up.
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Okay.
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So 30 minutes of a jet sitting on the tarmac just to warm up the gyroscope.
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Okay.
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And there's also problems with accuracy and calibration and so forth.
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Well, a laser, you just turn the switch on.
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Right.
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Okay.
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And so I worked in the in the division of Singer that manufactured started was the first manufacturer of the ring laser gyroscope, which today is common equipment in all jets.
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Right.
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That's amazing.
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All helicopters, jets, anybody anybody that used While you were a co-op.
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While I was a co-op.
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That's so cool.
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Now, you want me to continue the story?
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Yes.
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I would love a continuation of the story.
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So Singer was located in in New Jersey, which is where I'm where I grew up through high school.
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Now Johnson ⁇ Johnson is also in New Jersey.
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Okay.
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And so I interviewed at Johnson ⁇ Johnson as well for that first co-op position.
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Uh-huh.
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And I didn't get it.
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But I said to myself, you know, I was so impressed with Johnson ⁇ Johnson, just the process and the people.
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And I said, I want to work with Johnson ⁇ Johnson.
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So the next co-op came around, and wouldn't you know it?
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Johnson ⁇ Johnson has a manufacturing facility in Braintree.
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Right.
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And they were looking for co-ops.
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So I went down and interviewed and I got the job.
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Amazing.
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That's Northeastern at work for you.
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Right?
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I mean, this is just a very small example of how Northeastern really stepped up and helped me to realize the goals as little as they were.
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Right.
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Right?
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I want to work at Johnson ⁇ Johnson.
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And Northeastern helped me accomplish that goal.
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And so I worked at Johnson ⁇ Johnson manufacturing titanium implants.
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Knees, hips, elbows, some of which I still have on my desk.
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So that is interesting.
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My mom has knee replacement, so you never know.
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You might have been fat of creating it.
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A lot of people have knees and hips of made from titanium.
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Yeah, so that was my that was how I how I basically moved my my life from New Jersey to Boston.
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Because at that point I was there was no reason to go back to Jersey.
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Okay.
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And so I became a Bostonian year-round.
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You drank the Kool-Aid.
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I drank the Kool-Aid.
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And so at the end of that first co-op with Johnson ⁇ Johnson, I remember the exit, the sort of the end of the semester, and my boss says, you know, you're more than welcome to come back, but I I think you should try to get some broader experience somewhere else.
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And so go look for something else to do.
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And if you if you don't find anything interesting, come back.
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Mm-hmm.
00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:06.240
So you know, when someone twice your age, who you believe is twice as smart as you says something like that, you you go for it.
00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:06.799
Yeah.
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:13.759
And so I the next co-op came along and I went interviewing with other companies.
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:27.600
And I'll n I'll never forget the interview where I told my prospective boss that I had just finished a co-op period three months later, six months l earlier, working at Johnson ⁇ Johnson.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:29.840
And he says, Johnson and Johnson, where?
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.679
And I said, Well, in Braintree.
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:34.480
And he says, I I worked there.
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:36.399
That's not great.
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:38.960
And he says, So was your boss so-and-so?
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.120
And I said, Well, yeah, he was.
00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.399
He picks up the c the phone and calls so-and-so.
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:58.240
And he says, You know, I've got Alan here in the in the room here, and and and I didn't hear what the uh you know, what the other side of the conversation was, but he gets off the phone and he says, You're hired.
00:14:58.559 --> 00:14:59.360
Amazing.
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.399
Which is another example of Northeastern stepping up, right?
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:10.480
I mean, it was because of the co-op program, it was because of the relationships that Northeastern has.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:17.440
It was because Northeastern provided me with the tools and the path that I could walk down it.
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:23.039
So at that time, I really didn't understand what startups were.
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:36.240
I really, you know, didn't understand sort of the high-tech inf ecosystem, but I learned it very quickly because that company was the predecessor of Boston Scientific.
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:37.279
Wow.
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:37.840
Yeah.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:38.480
Okay.
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:48.080
And so I walked into a six-year journey that culminated with a public offering.
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:48.879
Wow.
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:55.039
I walked into a I mean, I like I said, I just didn't really understand what I was involved with at that point.
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:55.440
Right.
00:15:55.600 --> 00:16:01.600
But I walked into a company that was small enough that just about everybody ate lunch at one table, you know.
00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:02.080
Right.
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:10.080
And six years later, there were 1,600 employees and factories around the world and and a public office.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:10.879
Yeah.
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.919
I mean, that I think that is a really important thing.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:24.559
I think a common theme of everyone's early career when we look back 20, 40 years later, is like I I never you you have the benefit of hindsight.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:24.960
Right.
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:31.440
Whereas I think sometimes the small beginnings when you're living in the moment, we I say the same thing.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:32.720
I had no idea.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:33.200
Right.
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.279
I was just moving and and pivoting and and trying to work it out.
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:48.240
Whereas I think young people to like today, a lot of the students don't look at their small startup or don't look at those opportunities because they want to go work for someone more established.
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:53.360
But, you know, the small beginnings are amazing and they can end up in really incredible ways.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.960
Yeah, I think the the experience is richer.
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:06.240
And uh what I mean by that is you get it, you, you, you, you are exposed to so many other professions, I guess you could say.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:13.119
Like, you know, as as a co-op, and then after I graduated, I worked in just about every department in the company.
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:17.039
Including I worked very closely with one of the founders.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:24.960
And and you don't get that at General Motors or or IBM or or some of the larger organizations.
00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:34.880
You you and and and this was you at at a at these larger organizations, medium and s and large, you get you are performing a role.
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:36.960
It's a very well-defined role.
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:45.680
It's I th I called it a sandbox because there's left and there's right, you know, and there's up and down, and that's and there's people telling you where to go.
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:47.680
And the and you exactly.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:53.759
And so you have very little latitude, you have very little opportunity for growth and so forth.
00:17:54.079 --> 00:18:09.440
And this was actually this piece right there was actually one of the the big takeaways from my experience at Boston Scientific, or started off as Meditech, which was well before it was ever Boston Scientific.
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:18.400
But I learned that as companies grow, the company itself demands different kinds of people.
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:19.200
Yeah.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:27.039
And the most probably the most the most obvious example is people like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates.
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:35.440
They're they're two in how many startups that have gone from startup to publicly, and they're and they're still the CEO.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.000
Right.
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.920
It's very, very rare.
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:38.240
Yeah.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.400
And the reason being is that companies require different kinds of people.
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:43.279
Right.
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:59.119
And this was especially true right before you go public, because the public markets, they they want professional managers and they want scalable systems and they want predictability, which is exactly the opposite of what it takes to get a business off the ground.
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:00.000
Yeah.
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:06.000
And so as the company started growing, all my friends started leaving.
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.640
You know, the folks that that that I had been working with.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:09.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:12.799
You know, and they're they're like, they're like disappearing.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:13.759
I didn't know why.
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.279
Because they known their niche.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.720
Because they knew their niche.
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:21.519
And they felt, as the company started requiring a different kind of person, they felt uncomfortable.
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.440
And so, but I didn't realize any of this.
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:33.920
So I went all the way through until it finally got to the point where I just I just felt so uncomfortable.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.759
And and and this and this very typically happens.
00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:46.960
You see, when a when a company goes public and the whole thing is over and everyone has their shares or whatever it is that they're they're hanging on for, boom.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:53.200
There's there's usually a very significant exit of the entrepreneurial types.
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:59.759
And so this was a lesson that I learned, which was very painful at the time because I didn't know what was going on.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:06.079
But now that I've looked back at it and been able to live it a few more times, I realized that it wasn't me.
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.279
It wasn't anybody at the company, it was the company.
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:09.920
Right.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:11.039
And the situation.
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.680
And the situation that required different kinds of people.
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:15.279
And you either evolve or you don't.
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:15.759
Right.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.680
Now, you don't have to evolve.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.000
Evolving is not always the right answer.
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.559
Right.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.519
But it is required in that situ in that high growth example.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:27.920
No, that's uh so true.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:33.200
I was actually having a conversation about that with one of my friends in South Africa.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:41.200
I he was, he's been in the process of trying to work out how to get his company with his partner from one stage to the next.
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:46.960
And they've done the whole thing because of lack of capital, done a lot of it without taking on investors.
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:53.119
And they've been trying for a couple of years to get to the next stage and haven't been able to get to the next stage of growth.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:21:00.559
And I was like, well, did you, one, did you realize that often the investors bring the expertise to show you how to do that?
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:07.920
So sometimes it's a bad decision not to take on money even if you don't need it, because the expertise comes with the money often.
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:14.319
Uh, and two, maybe you're not like he was very uncomfortable with the situation and the the context it was in.
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:20.240
I was like, have you ever thought that you're a starter and you don't, you're not meant to be at this phase?
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:28.319
And I think that's a really important lesson for students, like, is to, you know, you can grow and you can stretch and you can learn these different skills that you need.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:37.279
But maybe if you're a really great starter, that's your unique contribution to business and the world is to be able to go and start things and grow things and then pass them off.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:38.720
And that is okay.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:40.960
In fact, it's more than okay.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:41.440
Yeah.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:47.200
It's it's ideal that you that you know yourself well enough to say, I'm good at that.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:47.599
Yeah.
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.599
And so therefore that's what I should do.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:50.000
Uh huh.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:56.720
And and and and I think if you if you if you recognize what you're good at, you're gonna and you do it, you're gonna be happier.
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:57.200
Yeah.
00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:58.000
So true.
00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:58.400
Right?
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.720
Yeah.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.680
And just recognize.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.720
That guess what?
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:05.440
You know, if you're a zero-to-one guy, you're not a manager of 500 people.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.519
Yeah, that's my last nightmare.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:10.960
It just like oil and water.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.160
It just doesn't mix.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:12.559
Yeah.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.160
Two different skill sets.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:14.559
Right.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:16.960
And and you're exactly correct.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:25.200
The growth of many companies is limited by the founder or the management team, but doesn't realize that their time has passed.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:30.880
And they either need to evolve or they need to bring someone else in who's more appropriate for that next level of growth.
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:31.279
Right.
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:39.759
And I think Google did that really well when they brought in their CEO, the two founders brought in someone over the top of them, which I thought was genius.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.400
It was.
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:41.359
It was.
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.079
Now, Apple tried to do the same thing.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.279
Well, they had to kick someone out in the process.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.480
Didn't work out as quite as the greatest comeback story ever.
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:53.599
Exactly.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:23:03.200
But but I think that I think if you look at most startups, you'll find that the founders stay with the company for a fairly short period of time.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:04.160
Yeah.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:11.599
And and some people and some put up a bigger fight than others, but at the end of the day, it's nothing against them.
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:13.440
It's just a a mismatch.
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.160
Mm-hmm.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:14.799
Yeah.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:15.440
That's it.
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:19.039
Well, I've always said, and I think there's research to back this up.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:26.960
I don't quote me on that, but I often people get promoted one step above their sweet spot.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.920
Because when you're performing well, they promote you.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.720
And then once you kind of get into a spot where you you're not performing very well, you kind of stop being promoted.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:37.039
Right.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.400
And usually that's probably one above where you should be, right?
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:44.319
Because you probably were really performing before you got into that job.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:50.000
And then that would make you un will probably make you unhappy because you're not performing well or it's not your sweet spot.
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:54.240
And then we get burnt out and all of these things that we talk about all the time.
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:54.880
So yeah.
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.160
And I and I yes, that's absolutely that's completely true.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:06.160
So so I think one of the big lessons here is figure out who you are and do do it.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:06.640
Yeah.
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.359
Because you're going to be more successful and you're going to be happier.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:09.680
Yeah.
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:12.000
And life is going to be more enjoyable as a result.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:13.279
Yes, so true.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:22.480
And then speaking of that, now that you've gone all the way through from startup to IPO, where was the where did you land in the next thing that you did?
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:25.839
Like what area did you peek yourself at?
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:33.279
So it was it was during this journey that I realized that I validated and confirmed that I'm not an engineer.
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:35.839
I have an engineering degree, but I'm not an engineer.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:36.640
Right.
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:45.680
And it was actually it and it was the very end where I realized where I need where I should go and what I should do.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:52.000
And that's where I be that's when I decided to become an entrepreneur and investor in entrepreneurs.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:54.640
How did it happen?
00:24:55.039 --> 00:25:06.000
So at this point, the market that Boston Scientific participated in, by this time there were multiple markets, but they were all growing at such an incredible rate.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:11.839
Minimally invasive surgery and catheters, balloon catheters.
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.599
I mean, there was just a number of different segments, but they were all exploding in growth.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:22.000
And so the internal RD department just couldn't nothing against them.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:27.759
It was just humanly impossible to keep up with the pace of the market.
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:39.680
And so this the management and the founder said, well, let's go out and invest in some doctors and engineers who are developing a left-handed, you know, device.
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:43.599
We've got the right-handed one, they've got the left-handed one, let's go invest in them.
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:53.680
And the objective was to get them off the ground and distribute their products and then acquire them.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.519
So what is that called?
00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:59.599
Today that's called acceleration.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:00.240
Right.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:00.799
Right?
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:07.440
Back then it was no name for it, but we need to fill our pipeline with more products.
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.279
We don't know what this is, but go do it.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:11.759
Right.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:18.160
And so that's when I, so we that's when I realized this is what I, this is what I need to do.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:28.319
Now, I had the the the background, of course, of working with one of the founders of Boston Scientific and seeing this pathway.
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:32.880
I was five years into it at that point, so I kind of had an idea what was going on at that point.
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:48.240
And then I was working with these other entrepreneurs that had one of the these people had built devices that really solved critical medical problems in an incredibly entrepreneurial way.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.359
And I'll never forget, tell you a short story.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:06.799
So we were going out, we were helping all these entrepreneurs, you know, get their devices through the sort of FDA process, you know, animal tests and human trials and FDA approvals and setting up manufacturing, quality control.
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:07.759
I mean, everything.
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.240
Right.
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:09.440
From nothing.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.240
And it included product development.
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:21.359
And so at this time, there was a one of the biggest, one of the biggest advances was a biopsy forcep at the end of a catheter.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:22.160
Okay.
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:34.319
That you could insert into a the vascular system from your leg or and you could go up and you could grab a piece of something, whether it be a clot or some other mass and pull it back out.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:34.880
Right.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.160
So without opening up your body, you could take a biopsy.
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:46.559
But the pro the problem is you can imagine a little like alligator clip on the end of a catheter that's three feet long.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:47.279
Right.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:56.799
There's not a lot of leverage that you can create or strength to close those alligator clips so that it can take a bite of something that's kind of hard.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:57.200
Right.
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.920
Like calcified something in your picture.
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:05.519
So you have to make extremely sharp teeth on the alligator clips.
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.079
Right.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.640
A company figured out how to do it.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.519
How to make the alligator, their alligator's teeth, sharper than all the rest.
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:14.000
Okay.
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.240
Now this is this is X number of decades later, so I'm not giving anything away.
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.960
But the secret was in the metal.
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:21.519
Okay.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:28.480
And the metal came from, I think it was Evanrude, Outboard Motor Props.
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:31.279
Interesting.
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.240
So this just gives you an idea of like the entrepreneurial mentality, right?
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:42.319
It's like it's like we need to find a metal that has all these different properties.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:43.759
And so what do we do?
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:47.200
We go out and we just collect metal from anywhere and everywhere and test it.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:47.599
Yeah.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:48.240
Right?
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.240
And the metal that worked out well was, I think it was Evanroot, might have been Johnson.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:52.640
Okay.
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:54.160
Um props.
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:54.960
Okay.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.920
So that was the unknown, that was the unknown secret.
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:06.240
And and that company just took the market by just completely destroyed the rest of the competition.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:13.039
And I think interestingly enough, that was one that got away because I think Johnson and Johnson ended up buying them.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.440
Okay.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:19.920
But getting back to the story, the story was that at that point I realized, wow, this is really what I'm built to do.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:35.920
And so through a series of what most what looks like fortunate circumstances, or maybe luck, I found what could be the f the first business incubator in the Boston area.
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:45.039
Now, if you if you'll allow me to take a little bit of a tangent and talk a little bit about luck, you you need to know where you're going if you're going to get there.
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:55.039
And so if you don't know where you're going, you have no idea how to judge any opportunity that passes in front of you.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:55.920
Right.
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:01.759
If you know where you're going, an opportunity passes in front of you, you can say, is that going to help me get there or not?
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:10.640
But if you don't know where you're going, so I knew at that point, hey, I want to get into venture capital and entrepreneurship and but in and and a high growth.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:18.960
And so when this opportunity came across my my bow to work at what I think was probably the first, it was called a business incubator back then.
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:21.920
I'll never forget telling people, oh yeah, I worked at a business incubator.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:27.759
I used to say I would work at an incubator, and they asked, How many chickens do you have?
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:31.440
Sorry for that.
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:33.920
None.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:34.799
None.
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.799
And so I basically did the same thing.
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.599
I went out, I went out around the world.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:46.000
This was around and my my niche in the world was Scandinavia.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:56.079
And it turns out that there's a lot of research that's paid for by the government in Scandinavia, Norway, Sweden.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:12.880
And so my task was to go find scientists that were developing unique and interesting technologies that we could finance startups around, which is basically what I was doing at the at the end of Plosset Scientific.
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:22.000
And so the most the most I guess the most memorable experience there for me was a Norwegian inventor.
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:23.119
His name is Olav.
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:29.839
And we still talk everyone, every couple couple times a year, we trade emails.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:41.359
And the first invention that Olav and I worked on was a self-regulating implantable insulin pump.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.400
Wow.
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.240
So now you might see them.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:32:01.599
And there's a and there's a couple of them that are that will actually inject insulin as well, but they're not as widespread as the you've probably seen the devices on the back of people's arms.
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:01.759
Yeah.
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.359
Well, this goes back a few decades.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:08.720
We were working on an implantable insulin, uh self-regulated insulin pump.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:11.519
And it was a little it was ahead of its time.
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:13.200
We learned that.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:28.640
Although we did get, we did have a few pharmaceutical companies that were very interested in supporting the development, but working with them, we realized that there was just a few technical hurdles that we were probably not going to get over, at least with the technology that was available at that time.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:33.279
So, like many innovators, Olav had more than one.
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:41.839
And his second was a technology that separated oil from soil.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:43.279
Interesting.
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:53.200
So coincidentally, that was back in the days of Superfund, when the federal government here in the United States was financing cleanups around the country.
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:54.000
Right.
00:32:54.319 --> 00:33:00.960
And so now Olav developed his technology for use on offshore drilling rigs.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:13.440
So offshore drilling rigs are these little platforms in the middle of the ocean that are multiple stories tall, that that have hundreds, if not thousands, of people and all the support equipment and tech.
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.839
So in other words, everything has to be compact.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:16.799
Right.
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:25.839
And they and and to get to the to get the drill down deep, they force a diesel fuel-based lubricant down the pipe.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:39.119
And then that that that diesel lubricant, which is sort of like jello, or maybe closer to something a little more solid than gel, it comes back up out of the hole with what?
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:40.079
Oil.
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:42.720
Oil and the dirt.
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.200
Because the drill bit is like a mile deep.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:45.839
Right.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:46.240
Right?
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:46.720
Right.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:52.400
So it it also serves not only to lubricate the drill bit, but it also brings the soil.
00:33:52.720 --> 00:34:04.880
So as a result, you've got tons and tons and tons of oil-saturated soil where on a platform that's only like, you know, some number of yards by some number of yards.
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:16.079
And so he developed a technology that could extract the diesel fuel from the soils, and this was the key, without destroying the functional properties of the diesel.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:16.719
Wow.
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:17.599
So it's still usable.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:18.960
So it was still usable.
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:28.239
Long story made short, the company had negative, I guess you could say we we our gross margin was above 100%.
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:35.039
Because we we were paid to clean the soil and then we sold the diesel fuel.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:39.679
So and that what we sold the diesel fuel for was more than our operating costs.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:41.199
Very smooth.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:55.039
And so then that techno that technology then moved into the pulp and paper industry, which has another problem with extracting water from wood fibers.
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:55.679
Right.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:58.000
It was the same physics.
00:34:58.239 --> 00:34:58.719
Right.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:08.239
So anyway, so at that point, my my trajectory as a an entrepreneur and as a supporter, investor in entrepreneurs was pretty well forged.
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.719
And it can has continued until today.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:17.760
There's a few other steps along the way, but I don't want to take up, you know, three, three days of people's time.
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.039
Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:42.400
I think one of the things that I think is really interesting, having a little bit more of understanding of your story is uh the pivot towards like applying what you learn in a new location and towards a different kind of cause that was a little bit more impact focused than the well, social impact focus than earlier on in your career.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:54.719
Because a lot of my work and a lot of the students in my classes, they want to do something that has a positive impact, which everything that you've done has because it's enabled all these scientific discoveries and all of those types of things.
00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:05.440
But then you used everything that you learned to go and work in an economy that was a little bit different and provide amazing opportunity for other people through housing and things like that.
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.000
So it'd be great if you could talk a little bit about that too.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:08.880
Yeah, yep.
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.960
So you're you're you're correct, Nikki.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:22.000
I I don't think I ever have made that connection about the common denominator that ran through most of my life, but that's a great observation, whether it be medical or or or environmental.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.719
And now you're bringing up the housing opportunity.
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.800
Each one of them delivered amazing social value.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:29.519
Yeah.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:31.440
Amazing social value.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:38.000
And you're, I think you're, you know, you're referring to the our the home builder that we created in Brazil.
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:52.559
To this day, I think one of the most emotional experiences in my life is delivering the keys of a new home to a father and his wife and the three kids.
00:36:53.519 --> 00:37:07.519
And before we had restructured the whole mortgage system and done a lot of interesting financial as well as civil engineering work to make all this possible, they'd never even dreamed of owning a home.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:12.800
It was just so far away from their reality.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:17.679
They just assumed they'd be renting or, you know, the for the rest of their lives.
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:32.239
And so when you deliver the keys and you can see the emotion, crying and the and not only just the father, but you know, the mother and the kids, and and they now have a front yard and a backyard, and you know, two bedrooms, two baths.
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:35.360
I mean, the the the the the American dream in Brazil.
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:36.079
Right.
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:41.840
And to be able and to do that profitably, it proves the point.
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:42.480
Right.
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.599
That the the profit pays for the social good.
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.320
Right.
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:47.119
Right?
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:51.760
So so the the profit is an important piece of that ingredient.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:56.800
That's what enable us to keep building houses and keep delivering that dream.
00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:57.360
Yeah.
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.400
But it goes well beyond just satisfying a dream.
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:01.119
Yeah.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.440
Because now the family has an asset.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.000
Yeah.
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:04.719
They have wealth.
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:05.679
They have wealth.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:09.679
They have their their first asset that's going to appreciate in value.
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:15.840
Their payment stays the same, but the value of that at that home grows and grows.
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.519
And so they build up equity, and that's creating wealth.
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:19.760
Right.
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:26.960
And then and then they can use that equity to then invest in other things, or or they but they gain credibility with their bank.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:32.559
And the sc the the credit scoring system in Brazil is not quite as granular as it is here.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:33.599
It's zero and one.
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.480
Either you're a good good creditor or you're not.
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:47.519
But even to just be just paying the monthly mortgage and getting those payments into the system as you being a good payer changes your entire life.
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.159
Right.
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.280
So it's more than just fulfilling the dream.
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.599
It's giving people an opportunity.
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.320
Right.
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:00.320
Which I think, again, if uh you will allow me to draw another kind of analogy based on listening.
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:16.320
You almost brought your industrial design and your entrepreneurial capabilities together to solve a human problem in Brazil at the right time, because it was a time where the environment enabled you to be able to do what you did successfully.
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.840
So that's that's a really great observation.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.320
Yeah.
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:22.880
Sometimes we don't see it when we're in it, right?
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.400
You know, you don't.
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:26.480
You don't, because you're in the thick of it, right?
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:28.639
What is it about the woods and the forest and all that?
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:28.960
Yeah.
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:30.239
The trees and the forest.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:32.639
You're absolutely right.
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:35.920
Because it flats, but now that you say it, it's like ding, ding, ding, ding.
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.239
It's like industrial engineering.
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.039
There's there was supply chain, right?
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:47.360
Because we had to negotiate supply relationships directly with the factories.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:48.320
Right.
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:50.400
We couldn't just buy from some distributor.
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:53.519
We needed, we needed to squeeze our cost down as far as possible.
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.559
So we had to go all the way to the source, right?
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.440
And then we had to figure out logistics, right?
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:06.159
Because if you don't have 19 distributors in the in the in the chain, you still have to get the product from the factory to your work site, right?
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:06.639
Right.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:07.519
So yeah.
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:10.159
So then there was workflow, right?
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:16.719
But but before you did the workflow, you had to design the house designed for manufacturability.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:17.360
Right.
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.639
For efficient cost spending manufacturing.
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:21.679
That's right.
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.320
That's right.
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:26.000
Because we had because the house had to be affordable and profitable.
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:30.480
And the way to do that is modular construction.
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:30.719
Yeah.
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.119
And that is a design function.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:33.599
Right.
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:38.000
That is industrial engineering working to make the process efficient.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:39.440
Wow.
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:40.000
Yeah.
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:47.360
So that uh we could go on and on and on about how industrial engineering enabled us to build homes profitably.
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:48.480
Yeah, it's very true.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:49.199
Yeah.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:56.320
And then you're able to have an impact on a lot of people's lives, make profit at the same time.
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:01.840
And I mean, this is exactly what I do if I work is.
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:11.280
I think I think what was what's really interesting about it is you came into a system that for the people was broken.
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:11.760
Yes.
00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:12.159
Right.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:19.760
Because a lot of people were limited and they weren't, they didn't have access to the housing market as it stood.
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:28.079
But you're able to redesign the model and provide a model that worked for a lower income bracket of person.
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:41.280
And then that, I mean, in in my classrooms a lot, we talk about institutional theory, like looking at the micro, the individual and the organization, and then the macro and how they work in interchange with each other.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:56.880
So it's like the individuals, when they you as an organization change the design to make it accessible to them, they actually then have an impact on the macro and it further stabilizes the environment that they're in because there's more people economically contributing.
00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:57.920
Yes.
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.840
And I think I'll give you an example of exactly how that worked in this housing system.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:09.760
So the so the end of the story is that housing is an economic engine.
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:21.760
Not only because you're employing plumbers and and electricians and so forth, but because every new home needs a refrigerator and an oven and bricks and wood.
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:26.239
And so the the the ripple effect on the economy is huge.
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:26.960
Right.
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:31.199
But in terms of redesigning the system, I think is what you were talking about.
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:37.119
This opportunity was created by a flaw in a very well-intentioned government program.
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:41.599
The government was taking the lead from the U.S.
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:52.800
government and the GI bill at the end of the World War II to subsidize home home home mortgages to make home ownership possible for many more people, millions of people.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:04.800
So they designed a program in which the government paid the down payment, the government subsidized the interest rate so that the monthly payments were affordable, but they forgot about the closing costs.
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:17.599
To give you an idea, the for for this for this socioeconomic level, the closing costs on the home that we sold might be four times their monthly income.
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:20.719
Not possible if that's not a way.
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:22.960
It's virtually impossible.
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:31.119
So the so this entire socioeconomic la group was blocked out of the system.
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:38.880
They were the reason, or one of the reasons that the system was created, but they couldn't access it because it was flawed.
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:39.440
Right.
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:54.320
And so we had to work within the structure of the law with the Banco do Brasil, which is there's there's the Bank of Brazil, which is the central bank, and then there's a bank, which is called Banco do Brasil.
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:59.039
So we worked with that with them, which is it's a government owned bank, but it's not the central bank.
00:43:59.199 --> 00:43:59.280
Right.
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:08.960
We worked With them to, within the rules, redesign the mortgage so that it financed the closing costs as well.
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:16.320
And in order to make that possible, we had to design the home for manufacturability, negotiate with the suppliers directly.
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:27.840
There's a whole lot of work that had to go into the supply chain, the manufacturing process, and the financial piece in order to make those homes available to that family.
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:46.960
And so I think this is a this is a model that's probably repeatable or replicable in that there's probably programs around the world that have very good intentions to serve an underserved group, but there's just one fatal flaw in it.
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:47.760
Right.
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.559
And that's preventing the whole thing from working.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:57.360
And so at entrepreneurs are built to recognize those gaps or those flaws.
00:44:57.679 --> 00:44:57.840
Right.
00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:59.119
And see them as opportunities.
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:01.280
I see them as the other side of the coin.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:02.960
They're not a flaw, they're an opportunity.
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:03.440
Right.
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:17.599
And so that's where the entrepreneurial mind comes in to look at a system and see where the tipping point or or the where the problem that will unleash, if you solve it, you'll unleash the entire potential of the up of the of the market.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:18.719
Yeah, amazing.
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:23.840
And it and in this particular case, obviously, the the impact on families was incredible.
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:25.039
It it's generational.
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:25.519
Yeah.
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:26.480
Generational.
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:26.960
Yeah.
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:36.400
It's just it I mean this happened a number of years ago, and we still know some of the families that they're there are living in our homes.
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:41.039
We can go it's such an amazing thing to go to Google Earth, right?
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:44.159
And like walk and like you know, take the tour down the street.
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:45.760
Walk around the neighborhood.
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:47.039
Walk around the neighborhood.
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:49.519
But but that that brings up another point.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:52.000
We had an impact on the neighborhood.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:52.559
Yeah.
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.079
So it wasn't just the homeowner that benefited, it was the whole town.
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.760
Because a neighborhood that was kind of on the edge.
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:00.639
Right.
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:12.159
We we've completely turned it around by putting in new homes that were and and and and you know, homeownership brings great pride to people, and so they take care of their homes.
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:16.960
So a neighborhood that was kind of on the edge now becomes a stable environment.
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:17.599
Right.
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:19.039
To raise kids.
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.760
It becomes a tax base for the city.
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:22.159
Yeah.
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:33.199
So so you can see the ripple effects of doing good on a family level that extends into the city, the county, the state.
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:35.360
I mean it just it multiplies itself.
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:36.800
Yeah, so good.
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:37.840
I love that.
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:55.119
And being able to see those opportunities, the the entrepreneur, whether whether you have that social intention to be socially minded, I really think as entrepreneurs, in a lot of ways, we are trying to just naturally see opportunities to make the world better for a subset of people.
00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:01.679
And it's really who we're focused on and how we're trying to solve their problems that matters at the end of the day.
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:08.239
So I think that that we should we should give credit to pattern recognition.
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:08.880
Mm-hmm.
00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:10.239
Yeah, absolutely.
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.639
Because a lot of these problems can be solved.
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:15.199
So a lot of these problems have patterns to them, right?
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:23.280
But I want to bring this back to Northeastern because Northeastern engineering school taught me how to think like an engineer.
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:24.079
Yeah.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.559
I I I kind of have fun by saying I'm not an engineer, but You kind of are.
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:30.559
You're just engineering system human systems.
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:31.599
Human systems.
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:32.000
Yeah.
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:34.639
Because because Northeastern taught me how to think.
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:35.360
Yeah.
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:42.480
And the and uh you don't have to worry about AI if you know how to think like this.
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.199
It's so You just answered my next question.
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:46.239
Oh sorry.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:47.440
But go ahead.
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:48.320
Go ahead, keep going.
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:49.760
Go ahead, throw it out there.
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:58.800
My next question was like, sir, you're uh well into your career now, you're back in the Boston ecosystem.
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:08.639
Of you probably have a good idea of kind of what's going on in the world and and how what everybody's saying about AI, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:26.719
And any advice if you were going through that early career transition that you went through X number of years ago now, um today, with the context and the environment the way it is, what advice would you have for yourself and be it the students that are going through Northeastern right now?
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:33.280
Yeah, so we definitely don't want to go down the rabbit hole of talking about media and all the all that influence, right?
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:46.480
But but I work with AI every day and and not just as a tool, but I work on some projects with some of the companies that are leading the field in AI.
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:50.719
And AI is really flawed.
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:52.400
It's very flawed.
00:48:52.800 --> 00:49:00.880
And what I mean by that is if you don't pay attention, it'll make really bad mistakes and really simple mistakes.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:07.280
And if you then publish whatever it it gave you, you're gonna look bad.
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:07.760
Right?
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:08.079
Right.
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:15.760
Because anybody who's who pays attention to that flaw that it just confidently told you was true, they're gonna know.
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:16.239
Yeah.
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:16.719
Right?
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:18.480
So what does that mean?
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:35.199
It means that today, human uh the human ability to analyze seemingly unrelated but actually related variables, AI doesn't do a very good job at it.
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:35.519
Right.
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:36.239
Yeah.
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:41.519
And so and and even like chains of calculations, right?
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:57.599
Like our tax system in the United States is is better than most, but still, there's there's you have to go down, I don't know how if if you have anything that's a complicated life, anything close to a complicated life, your taxes are 10 times more complicated.
00:49:57.679 --> 00:49:57.920
Right.
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:02.800
Because you have to do 13 calculations just to get the number you fill in the box.
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:03.360
Right.
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:09.519
AI doesn't it it has a really hard time keeping track of, okay, I'm on the 11th calculation.
00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:11.199
What was the answer to the second?
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:11.920
Right.
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:13.360
But a human can do that.
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:13.840
Right.
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:20.000
A human can keep in their mind all those steps that it took and the relationship between them.
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:24.800
And so if the answer starts getting off track, a human will figure that out.
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:25.119
Right.
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:29.199
Where AI can't remember the second and the third steps.
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:32.159
So it's just working on the last or maybe the second or the last step.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:32.480
Yeah.
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:37.440
And it could go off on a on a tangent, thinking it's right, but it's wrong.
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:38.000
Yeah.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:40.079
I've noticed that just in the writing.
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:47.199
Like if I'm getting it to an AI to support me with writing something, and then I make an edit to one paragraph.
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:51.360
I have to then go tell it, hey, now you need to rewrite the whole thing.
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:54.400
Because I made the change here, that means the rest of it's wrong.
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:56.800
And it doesn't even, it goes, wow, what a great idea.
00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:00.320
What a great idea reading the whole thing again, you know.
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:03.679
And so it's it's really good at like producing.
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:11.119
But then when as soon as you get to the nuance part of the process, it definitely I I never thought about it as forgetting, right?
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:16.400
Or I see it also a little bit of not understanding what's important to remember.
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:23.119
And that's something that we we know innately as humans what what's important based on the sequencing of things.
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:24.559
Pattern recognition.
00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:33.199
So I I I uh you probably remember uh you know, the days when everyone was afraid about computers.
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:35.199
Not quite.
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:36.480
I had one at six.
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:41.920
All right, so I'll I might be just a year or two older.
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:49.760
Um but but there was a there was a time in when everyone was afraid that computers were gonna take all of our jobs.
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:50.400
Right.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:50.960
Right.
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.599
The fact is that computers created jobs.
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:54.079
Yeah.
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:56.320
Now some got lost.
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.400
Some got lost, but others got created.
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:00.239
The net effect is there was more.
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:00.880
Right.
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:09.840
So but but the point I think I'm trying to make is that AI is making the same mistakes that software did, you know, back in the day.
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:10.639
Right.
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:20.880
If you don't, if you don't today, today, if you don't give AI very strict guidelines and steps to take, it won't take them.
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:21.360
Right.
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:24.239
And it'll go off on a on a on a on the wrong tangent.
00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:24.719
Right.
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:28.880
So it's the same, and it's sort of an analogy to the software days, right?
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:29.280
Yeah.
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:51.920
So I I think it's I can s I can extrapolate into the future and say, oh, there might be robots that are gonna take over the world and all that, but I don't I just don't see I see the path to that, but I don't know that it's gonna happen anytime soon because the core technology just really is limited.
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:53.840
Yeah.
00:52:54.079 --> 00:53:00.000
It it'll execute tasks fairly well if you tell them what they are and get put guardrails on them.
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:00.559
Yeah.
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:02.239
And that's the human job.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:03.840
And that's the human job.
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:22.320
I often talk about like how do you augment your how do you augment yourself and enable yourself to do more utilizing the capability that AI has, as opposed to thinking about it as replacement, because then we kind of grow with the technology and we grow our capabilities with the technology.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.559
So that's an awesome observation.
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:29.440
Uh, from I agree with it based on my with your observation based on my experience.
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:39.119
Analyzing markets, like instead of spending 19 million hours doing Google searches, it'll do the same searches in a few seconds.
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:40.800
And then and then it'll give me a summary.
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:44.000
Now I can't agree with, I can't just take the summary at face value.
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:44.400
Right.
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:45.119
Right.
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:50.800
But it shortens that that time to get to an answer significantly.
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:52.880
So makes me more productive.
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:53.199
Yeah.
00:53:53.440 --> 00:54:00.559
I don't I don't allow it to make the I don't it could make a decision, but I would wouldn't trust the decision.
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:07.039
I also think one of the things that I've observed is that what's just as important is knowing what it's missing.
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:07.599
Yes.
00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:08.000
Right.
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:18.880
So for me, I often notice that it doesn't take a global perspective or it does it just looks at ten of these things that it could happen to get access to.
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:24.719
And if you don't tell it, no, I want you to use more tokens, essentially I want you to look broader.
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:28.880
I want you to find things that are harder to get and not just find the easy things.
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:29.360
Right.
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:36.400
So it really does operate based on the human that is engaging with it, for sure.
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.360
Back in the day, this was called garbage in, garbage out.
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:44.480
If you give soft if you give a great piece of software garbage, it's gonna produce garbage.
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:44.880
Right.
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:46.400
And so AI is the same thing.
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:46.800
Right.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:54.880
If you it but but we all think that somehow AI is gonna scan the entire universe and come up with all the variables.
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:55.920
No, it doesn't.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:56.400
Right.
00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:57.039
It doesn't.
00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:01.599
And yeah, and if you test it, it'll it'll say, oh yeah, this was the shorter answer.
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:03.519
Oh, this was the shorter path to the answer.
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:03.840
Right.
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:04.800
Was the answer right?
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:06.639
Well, no, but it was shorter.
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:09.519
Yeah.
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:11.119
Oh my gosh, they're good.
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:17.840
So the answer to your question is I think uh you've you just you you gave the answer yourself, and that is that it's a tool.
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:18.320
Yeah.
00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:20.400
It's not gonna replace us anytime soon.
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:21.039
Right.
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:25.280
Will an accountant be able to process 10 times more?
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:26.400
Yes.
00:55:26.719 --> 00:55:28.960
But the AI won't do it alone.
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:29.679
Right.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:39.599
Yeah, and I think it'll it'll replace the need for so many of all the different professions, perhaps.
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:56.960
Like we probably won't need as many accountants, but it'll also create other opportunities for jobs that we don't even know exist yet, which is why I think when we when we initially sat down today, I was talking about how I feel like the non-traditional career path is going to become the norm.
00:55:57.199 --> 00:55:57.440
Yes.
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:12.960
You know, and and what I'm really fascinated about with people's stories that are kind of looking back over a 20-year, 30-year, 40-year career is the it the ones that have had the non-traditional career path and and how they navigated that.
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:25.360
Because I think that young people today that are kind of transitioning out into from university to the workplace are going to have to utilize the non-traditional process because it really is unknown.
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:25.840
Yes.
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:33.119
And so I guess if again, what would your advice be to yourself if you were doing it again or students?
00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:38.719
Like what skills would you double down on, or anything like that that's coming to mind?
00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:45.840
So I I think we've already talked about one of them, and that is you gotta know where you're going to get there.
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:50.800
Now, but let's be clear, that can change, right?
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:55.760
You you can you can for, you know, for some period of time say, hey, I want to head north.
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:56.159
Right.
00:56:56.320 --> 00:56:58.159
And then you're like, you know what, it's cold up there.
00:56:58.239 --> 00:56:59.840
I know I I want to go south.
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:01.519
And you can, you know, yeah.
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:02.480
You can change.
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:02.960
Right.
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:09.360
But the point is if you don't know that you're heading north or that you want to go north, the chances of you getting there are very low.
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:09.840
Right.
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:17.039
So don't worry about the the the the goal being right or wrong, but be intentional.
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:18.400
Go somewhere.
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:18.960
Right.
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:26.159
Don't just be a ship without a rudder and kind of go with the there's a there's a a certain amount of going with the flow.
00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:31.760
And I think and I think I've described some of these what some people might call as serendipity or something like that.
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:44.960
But again, I'd look back at it and say, well, it looked like serendipity, but it was really me knowing I wanted to go north, and an opportunity came across my path that that would help me go north, and so I said, okay, let's do that one.
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:45.599
Yeah.
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:50.559
So I think one of the keys to the to um is to know where you want to go.
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:58.159
But the key to the key to that, what you have to you have to understand who you are.
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.199
Now you don't have to be right about that either.
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:01.920
Right.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:02.400
Right?
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:04.159
Because by the way, we all change.
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:08.880
So what what you who you may be today is different than what you who you'll be in 10 years.
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:14.239
And so these are all dynamic variables that can change over time, which gets back to sailing, right?
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:20.719
I mean, you could be it's just around to be like you have to pick a direction and then tap.
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:24.000
You don't just leave the direction open to the wind.
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:25.039
Exactly.
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:25.920
Exactly.
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:27.039
Well, we've bought this happening.
00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:29.840
And Marath ends the lesson.
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:33.119
So, in other words, life is about sailing.
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:36.000
Yes, we should all learn to sail.
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:37.760
So I think so.
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:46.480
I think you need to know where you're going and that and but recognize that it's not it's not the last decision, it's just the first or the second or the third.
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:46.960
Yeah.
00:58:47.199 --> 00:58:51.519
And in order to figure out where you want to go, you should understand who you are.
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:52.880
And again, that can change.
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:54.159
Who you are may change.
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:57.920
Your perception of who you are may change, but you gotta have some direction.
00:58:58.159 --> 00:58:58.480
Right.
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.079
So that so that you can create luck.
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:02.480
Right.
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:04.079
Create serendipity.
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:15.039
You know, all these sort of things that third thing is surround yourself with positive people.
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:20.000
Which is a lot more difficult than it sounds.
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:20.960
Yeah.
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:34.559
Because it's it's I'm not gonna get this one right, but if you remember the old Apple advertisements, like the people who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world do.
00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:35.039
Yeah.
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:50.480
Those are the people you you know, i if you want to be an entrepreneur, you know, if you wanna be if you want to excel at whatever it is you want to do, you need to surround yourself with people who are excelling.
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:51.280
Yeah.
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:53.760
Independent of what anybody thinks.
00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:56.000
And that's probably the fourth one.
00:59:56.239 --> 01:00:00.880
Don't listen to what because what they say is is is it really relevant to you?
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:01.280
Right.
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:03.119
Whoever they is, right?
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:11.599
And most of the times these days, the day we listen to is social media, and 40% of that or something is bots anyway.
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:21.920
So they're not human, they're and and the and the rest are motivated by by by uh in incentives that have nothing to do with the truth.
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:29.119
So so you you gotta surround yourself with people who are positive.
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:31.360
That's just the way to say it, right?
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:37.599
Really easy to understand, actually, because if everybody just sits around and complains all day long, what are you gonna do?
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:38.159
Yeah.
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:39.199
Not much.
01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:40.159
Absolutely.
01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:52.639
So if you work so if you're if surrounding yourself with positive people, people who are have already done what you want to do, people who can teach you, which by the way, it means you need to be teachable, right?
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:53.280
Mm-hmm.
01:00:53.760 --> 01:01:04.079
So those are the four things that I think if I had made I've made some mistakes along the way, and I'd probably those four, most of the mistakes would fit into that category.
01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:06.079
Yeah.
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:14.320
I mean, th there's a couple of others that we could talk about in terms of believing in yourself and confidence and and so forth.
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:22.079
But but I think that a lot of that, a lot of believing in yourself and confidence, one, comes from doing things.
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:22.800
Right.
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:23.360
Right?
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:23.840
Yeah.
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:24.719
Doing things.
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:25.280
Absolutely.
01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:29.519
And oh, by the way, doing things uh by definition means you're gonna fail sometimes.
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:30.079
Right.
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:30.639
Yeah.
01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:31.280
Right?
01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:36.480
So a lot of confidence comes from failing and getting back up.
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:36.960
Right.
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.239
And realizing you didn't die.
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:39.760
You didn't die, right?
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:40.800
Right?
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:41.840
You didn't die.
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.440
You didn't fail as badly as you imagined your head, and therefore you can keep going.
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.400
You can keep going.
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:46.719
Yeah.
01:01:47.039 --> 01:02:05.280
You know, especially especially where, you know, here in the United States, but but you know, I think even in Brazil, uh, which I spent a lot of time there, where here in the United States, I think people or people around the world think the United States, you know, has a legal system that works, has infrastructure that works.
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:08.719
And that's true compared to places like Brazil.
01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:11.599
But that doesn't mean there aren't opportunities in Brazil.
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:13.039
They're just different kinds.
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:13.760
Right.
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:14.639
Right.
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:20.800
So I think the place means less than the other things that we've been talking about.
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.440
Well, I think it's the you have to understand the place is different.
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:28.320
I think that's you have to understand the place is different.
01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:32.960
You have to learn the place and learn the neat patterns and learn where the opportunities lie.
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:33.199
Right.
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:35.119
And that's a skill set in itself.
01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:42.320
And and especially, you know, I'll I'll talk about the home building experience again.
01:02:42.639 --> 01:03:07.440
You know, my my life experience was so is so different than our clients that I really struggle to truly understand their experience and and and their needs and their interests and why they but but I think it's it's it's you don't necessarily need to fully understand, but you need to understand that you you're not gonna understand.
01:03:08.559 --> 01:03:09.039
Yeah.
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:09.920
Right?
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:23.039
And and and so especially in the in the social, if you think about social impact, I think a lot of the social impact occurs when people from very different backgrounds collide.
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:23.599
Yeah.
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:24.079
Right?
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:28.719
I remember your work in South Africa, for example, and my work in Brazil.
01:03:28.880 --> 01:03:35.199
I mean, I went to Brazil, I knew three words in Portuguese.
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:36.239
Right?
01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:46.159
And so your work in South Africa, I'm I'm sh I imagine that you find it very challenging to understand why people behave in the way they do.
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:47.440
But there's a good reason for it.
01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:47.840
Right.
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:49.280
But you may never understand it.
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:50.079
Right.
01:03:50.559 --> 01:03:57.119
And so it's important to recognize when you're when you're in another environment, or or you know what?
01:03:57.280 --> 01:04:05.039
Even when you're in your environment, don't assume that you know why the other person is doing what they're doing.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:05.679
Right.
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:06.880
Don't assume that.
01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:07.440
Right.
01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:11.119
And and take it from me in Brazil and you in South Africa, right?
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:12.719
Or me in America.
01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:14.559
Or you in America for that matter.
01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:16.639
Don't assume that you know.
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:18.079
Because you don't.
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:24.639
And oftentimes I think a lot of people will say, oh, it's something I did, and you know, they reacted like this because of something that I did.
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:25.679
Probably not.
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.119
Yeah, they probably didn't actually spend that much time thinking about you.
01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:29.599
Right.
01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:35.199
So we kind of got off on a tangent there, but uh did I give you a lot of people.
01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:40.400
No, I think I mean, I I think the the through line here is go sailing.
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:42.000
No, you're just kidding.
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:50.000
I think the fruit through line is know yourself, know your environment, and and kind of pick a direction and head in it.
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:51.119
Be ready to tack.
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:52.719
And be be ready to tack.
01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:53.360
Yeah.
01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:58.000
Be ready to tack and and and don't, it's not negative, it's positive.
01:04:58.159 --> 01:04:58.559
Right.
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:03.760
And and it may be stressful, but that's part of the that's part of it.
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:04.800
That's just part of it.
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:05.280
Yeah.
01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:06.079
Right.
01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:08.960
So yeah, that's that's a great analogy, right?
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:11.679
Just throw your butt out of the water and start sailing.
01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:13.920
Let's all go sailing.
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:14.480
Right.
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:31.519
Thank you so much for coming and sharing a story because as I said, like it's so amazing to have amazing alums and guests come into my classroom, but it's even more amazing being able to share their stories more broadly with students that don't have the opportunity to be in the classroom.
01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:38.960
So I know a lot of the uh folks that listen are actually some of the students that I get to teach and engage with in South Africa and things like that.
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So I love that I get to share amazing stories and inspiring stories like your story with people that don't have the opportunity to come and be here and listen to you in person next Thursday, next Tuesday.
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So thank you so much uh for coming and sharing.
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And I can't wait to see what happens next.
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It's been my pleasure, and I'm looking forward to meeting your students.
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Yes.
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Both here in Boston as well as in South Africa.
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Amazing.
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All right, thank you.
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Thank you.
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Guys, I hope you learned from his wisdom and the practical advice that he offered.
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The one thing that really stuck out for me is that the need to have a direction, but being okay if it changes.
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I think sometimes we think that that directional decision is is fixed and not movable, or we just don't choose it all because we don't know.
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I think it's a really interesting way to look at it, to pick a direction and head towards that so that you can see it all unfold, but then being willing to tack and change direction and pivot as the moment needs.
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I really think it'd be cool if we could all think about how to apply that to our life and our decision making this week.
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That's it from us.
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Thank you so much for joining.
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If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with somebody or follow along so that you hear when new episodes come out.
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Have a great week and we'll see you next week.