WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000
Rob Watson: Hello, I’m Rob Watson and this is a Spotlight on Arts program.
00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Rob Watson: Today, I’m in the basement gallery at Leicester Adult Education Centre on Beaver Street.
00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:19.000
Rob Watson: We’re here with a group of artists who are performing at the Intangible Labor exhibition.
00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:26.000
Rob Watson: We're going to have a conversation about the exhibition and the role of independent art, particularly here in Leicester.
00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:33.000
Rob Watson: I’m going to start off by asking Miffy, who’s the curator, to tell us a little bit about it.
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:40.000
Miffy: You're too kind, Rob. We are a working group of artists, some of whom are neurodivergent.
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:47.000
Miffy: All of whom have adverse life experiences. We share common threads I’ve curated the show around, calling it the New Folklore.
00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:54.000
Miffy: We’re talking about marginalized voices and more peripheral art practices. Paul, for example, comes from a graph background.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:01.000
Paul: That’s correct. People class me as a transitional artist, moving away from graffiti in the streets.
00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:07.000
Paul: I do a lot of fine art type work now, using oils and acrylics mainly.
00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:14.000
Rob Watson: We’re joined by Emma Pearce, Alison Wolcott, Paul Dexter, Francis Ryan, Miffy Ryan, and Mark Murphy.
00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:21.000
Rob Watson: What’s the vibe been like around the exhibition? Alison, you're pulling a face and I think you have something to say.
00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:27.000
Alison: I’m pulling a face because I’m not from Leicester. I haven’t actually been here yet.
00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:34.000
Alison: This is my first time seeing the exhibition, though we have exhibited here recently.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:41.000
Rob Watson: What’s your first impression?
00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:47.000
Alison: We’ve filled the space. Wow, what a lot of work Miffy and her crew have put into putting everything up.
00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:54.000
Alison: You’ve got to spend time here looking at all the images. I love that there is no curatorial language.
00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:01.000
Alison: You’re not sure who the artist is or who is in the image, but you can create your own narrative.
00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:07.000
Rob Watson: It demands that you participate and construct your own journey through the exhibition.
00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:14.000
Alison: There are no artists’ names next to the work. I find that really intriguing.
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:21.000
Rob Watson: It’s quite lively here at the Adult Education Centre, which is great. Emma, which is your work?
00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:27.000
Emma: My piece is over on the far end; it’s called Labor of Love.
00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:34.000
Emma: It's a hex nut with a diamond in it. My practice stems from women working in male-dominated fields.
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:41.000
Emma: I grew up in a working-class house surrounded by DIY. Love in itself is a labor.
00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:47.000
Emma: I thought about partnerships and marriages as well as the domestic side and work-life balance.
00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:54.000
Rob Watson: Mark, you are exhibiting here too?
00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:01.000
Mark: Yes, it’s a rework of autobiographical Facebook posts that I turned into text and image.
00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:07.000
Mark: My family took them of me, a lot of them against my will, hence the expression on my face.
00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:14.000
Mark: I read a book called Flesh which concentrated on masculinity and how things accidentally happen to men sexually.
00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:21.000
Mark: It rang a bell with me as I had a lot of grief recently losing my family.
00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:27.000
Mark: I constructed a narrative about my teenage years. It's the only text piece in the exhibition.
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:34.000
Rob Watson: Someone mentioned your pieces and how you were inundated with attention from girls.
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:41.000
Mark: It was terrifying. I attracted attention while I was playing with little soldiers and teddy bears.
00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:47.000
Mark: Your body is doing one thing way ahead of your brain.
00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:54.000
Rob Watson: Young adolescent men sometimes don’t stand a chance against ruthless girls. Is that true?
00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:01.000
Miffy: Yes, I’ve worked with Mark for a couple of years now as part of my masking group.
00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:07.000
Miffy: I became his unwanted editor on Facebook. Originally, it was The Ballad of Sexual Ineptitude.
00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:14.000
Miffy: We installed it quite low with primary school chairs so you can engage with it at a childlike level.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:21.000
Miffy: It’s really opening up male identity and sexuality. It's important work for me to curate.
00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:27.000
Rob Watson: This exhibition takes a very independent view, outside the usual bureaucratic process. What’s the benefit?
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:34.000
Paul: I still do things I was doing 40 years ago, just better.
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:41.000
Paul: People see a crossover in my work, whether it’s colors or the strong figurative path.
00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:47.000
Francis: I can see that crossover too, with the graffiti and the sort of bright colors.
00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:54.000
Francis: He uses complementary colors like orange and blue that bounce off each other.
00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:01.000
Rob Watson: Francis, you carry your flute everywhere. Music seems to be missing from this space.
00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:07.000
Francis: Hearing live music is not very common. Being able to play here is quite special.
00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:14.000
Miffy: It’s important because we’re talking about things that have come from the street into a contrived space.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:21.000
Miffy: The casual, improvised way it occurs is reminiscent of busking and folk music practices.
00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:27.000
Miffy: As a neurodivergent curator, I like to appeal to different senses. Live performance is vital.
00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:34.000
Rob Watson: Emma, how important is independent art outside the system to you?
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:41.000
Emma: Big corporations monetize off artists and it keep us relatively poor.
00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:47.000
Emma: Galleries take 60% commission. You become a machine churning stuff out rather than putting love into it.
00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:54.000
Rob Watson: Alison, how would you describe your work and business plan?
00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:01.000
Alison: I’ve always got 10 business plans. Creative minds are busy and it's difficult to stop.
00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:07.000
Alison: My artwork fluctuates. More recently, I've been working with Miffy on performance art.
00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.000
Alison: The image on the wall is from a performance I did at home because I was naked at the time.
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:21.000
Rob Watson: Do you prefer the structured "right-hand path" or the exploratory "left-hand path"?
00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:27.000
Alison: I’m very much to the left.
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:34.000
Miffy: I think I’m repressed left-handed.
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:41.000
Mark: The masking group performances at Two Queens was welcoming.
00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:47.000
Mark: Other experiences were very anonymous, just delivering a piece at a front desk.
00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:54.000
Alison: Open art requests often ask artists to pay before they're even chosen to exhibit.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.000
Rob Watson: Business models in many ways kill art. Paul, what supporting culture do you want as an artist?
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:07.000
Paul: I share a studio and gallery space in Loughborough, Studio at 17. It's sort of become a home.
00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:14.000
Paul: I'm still striving to make a decent living from art, as I planned since school.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:21.000
Emma: Funding is so inaccessible. Giving more financial security can help artists actually pursue their work.
00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:27.000
Miffy: The time and effort to get funding is intangible labor. You get ripped off or scammed.
00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:34.000
Miffy: Rejections are crushing blows, and that is all intangible labor.
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:41.000
Rob Watson: What’s the alternative? You’ve brought a group together like a community of friends.
00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:47.000
Miffy: There is no alternative, Rob. We’ve become a community through this process.
00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:54.000
Rob Watson: You're avoiding networking events and business development.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:01.000
Miffy: I have social anxiety. In the past, I had to get hideously drunk just to network.
00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:07.000
Emma: At my MA show, I was blackout drunk talking to a curator from Icon.
00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:14.000
Miffy: I was too hungover to open my show room when I was at Goldsmiths.
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:21.000
Mark: Coming from a working-class background, I always find it hard to deal with people in galleries.
00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:27.000
Mark: Bouncers wouldn't let me in openings. They could smell where I came from.
00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:34.000
Francis: Networking events are all spreadsheets and advertising on social media. I couldn't relate.
00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.000
Emma: Those sort of networks aren't suitable for arts. They see everything as a product to sell.
00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:47.000
Alison: A lot of us here don't make commercial art. Instagram is hard graft.
00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:54.000
Rob Watson: Quickfire round: what would be your ideal community of artists?
00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:01.000
Emma: I’d just like this to get bigger. Leicester’s community is hidden, but I want more.
00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:07.000
Alison: It's a privilege to be in a city. Being pushed out of my comfort zone is the way forward.
00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:14.000
Paul: The graffiti scene in Leicester is becoming huge. Mural after mural is impressive.
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:21.000
Francis: Talking to other artists about their work is important. Playing flute here is very freeing.
00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:27.000
Mark: A DIY ethos is inspiring. If you're not getting attention from galleries, do it yourself.
00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:34.000
Miffy: Art is bigger than just being about art. This is about community building and forming friendships.
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:41.000
Miffy: It’s letting people make their own desire paths through the space.
Would you like me to find out more about any of these artists' upcoming projects?
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000
Rob Watson: Hello, I’m Rob Watson and this is a Spotlight on Arts program.
00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Rob Watson: Today, I’m in the basement gallery at Leicester Adult Education Centre on Beaver Street.
00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:19.000
Rob Watson: We’re here with a group of artists who are performing at the Intangible Labor exhibition.
00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:26.000
Rob Watson: We're going to have a conversation about the exhibition and the role of independent art, particularly here in Leicester.
00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:33.000
Rob Watson: I’m going to start off by asking Miffy, who’s the curator, to tell us a little bit about it.
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:40.000
Miffy: You're too kind, Rob. We are a working group of artists, some of whom are neurodivergent.
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:47.000
Miffy: All of whom have adverse life experiences. We share common threads I’ve curated the show around, calling it the New Folklore.
00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:54.000
Miffy: We’re talking about marginalized voices and more peripheral art practices. Paul, for example, comes from a graph background.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:01.000
Paul: That’s correct. People class me as a transitional artist, moving away from graffiti in the streets.
00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:07.000
Paul: I do a lot of fine art type work now, using oils and acrylics mainly.
00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:14.000
Rob Watson: We’re joined by Emma Pearce, Alison Wolcott, Paul Dexter, Francis Ryan, Miffy Ryan, and Mark Murphy.
00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:21.000
Rob Watson: What’s the vibe been like around the exhibition? Alison, you're pulling a face and I think you have something to say.
00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:27.000
Alison: I’m pulling a face because I’m not from Leicester. I haven’t actually been here yet.
00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:34.000
Alison: This is my first time seeing the exhibition, though we have exhibited here recently.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:41.000
Rob Watson: What’s your first impression?
00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:47.000
Alison: We’ve filled the space. Wow, what a lot of work Miffy and her crew have put into putting everything up.
00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:54.000
Alison: You’ve got to spend time here looking at all the images. I love that there is no curatorial language.
00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:01.000
Alison: You’re not sure who the artist is or who is in the image, but you can create your own narrative.
00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:07.000
Rob Watson: It demands that you participate and construct your own journey through the exhibition.
00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:14.000
Alison: There are no artists’ names next to the work. I find that really intriguing.
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:21.000
Rob Watson: It’s quite lively here at the Adult Education Centre, which is great. Emma, which is your work?
00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:27.000
Emma: My piece is over on the far end; it’s called Labor of Love.
00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:34.000
Emma: It's a hex nut with a diamond in it. My practice stems from women working in male-dominated fields.
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:41.000
Emma: I grew up in a working-class house surrounded by DIY. Love in itself is a labor.
00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:47.000
Emma: I thought about partnerships and marriages as well as the domestic side and work-life balance.
00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:54.000
Rob Watson: Mark, you are exhibiting here too?
00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:01.000
Mark: Yes, it’s a rework of autobiographical Facebook posts that I turned into text and image.
00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:07.000
Mark: My family took them of me, a lot of them against my will, hence the expression on my face.
00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:14.000
Mark: I read a book called Flesh which concentrated on masculinity and how things accidentally happen to men sexually.
00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:21.000
Mark: It rang a bell with me as I had a lot of grief recently losing my family.
00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:27.000
Mark: I constructed a narrative about my teenage years. It's the only text piece in the exhibition.
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:34.000
Rob Watson: Someone mentioned your pieces and how you were inundated with attention from girls.
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:41.000
Mark: It was terrifying. I attracted attention while I was playing with little soldiers and teddy bears.
00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:47.000
Mark: Your body is doing one thing way ahead of your brain.
00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:54.000
Rob Watson: Young adolescent men sometimes don’t stand a chance against ruthless girls. Is that true?
00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:01.000
Miffy: Yes, I’ve worked with Mark for a couple of years now as part of my masking group.
00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:07.000
Miffy: I became his unwanted editor on Facebook. Originally, it was The Ballad of Sexual Ineptitude.
00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:14.000
Miffy: We installed it quite low with primary school chairs so you can engage with it at a childlike level.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:21.000
Miffy: It’s really opening up male identity and sexuality. It's important work for me to curate.
00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:27.000
Rob Watson: This exhibition takes a very independent view, outside the usual bureaucratic process. What’s the benefit?
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:34.000
Paul: I still do things I was doing 40 years ago, just better.
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:41.000
Paul: People see a crossover in my work, whether it’s colors or the strong figurative path.
00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:47.000
Francis: I can see that crossover too, with the graffiti and the sort of bright colors.
00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:54.000
Francis: He uses complementary colors like orange and blue that bounce off each other.
00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:01.000
Rob Watson: Francis, you carry your flute everywhere. Music seems to be missing from this space.
00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:07.000
Francis: Hearing live music is not very common. Being able to play here is quite special.
00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:14.000
Miffy: It’s important because we’re talking about things that have come from the street into a contrived space.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:21.000
Miffy: The casual, improvised way it occurs is reminiscent of busking and folk music practices.
00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:27.000
Miffy: As a neurodivergent curator, I like to appeal to different senses. Live performance is vital.
00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:34.000
Rob Watson: Emma, how important is independent art outside the system to you?
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:41.000
Emma: Big corporations monetize off artists and it keep us relatively poor.
00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:47.000
Emma: Galleries take 60% commission. You become a machine churning stuff out rather than putting love into it.
00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:54.000
Rob Watson: Alison, how would you describe your work and business plan?
00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:01.000
Alison: I’ve always got 10 business plans. Creative minds are busy and it's difficult to stop.
00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:07.000
Alison: My artwork fluctuates. More recently, I've been working with Miffy on performance art.
00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.000
Alison: The image on the wall is from a performance I did at home because I was naked at the time.
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:21.000
Rob Watson: Do you prefer the structured "right-hand path" or the exploratory "left-hand path"?
00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:27.000
Alison: I’m very much to the left.
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:34.000
Miffy: I think I’m repressed left-handed.
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:41.000
Mark: The masking group performances at Two Queens was welcoming.
00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:47.000
Mark: Other experiences were very anonymous, just delivering a piece at a front desk.
00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:54.000
Alison: Open art requests often ask artists to pay before they're even chosen to exhibit.
00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.000
Rob Watson: Business models in many ways kill art. Paul, what supporting culture do you want as an artist?
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:07.000
Paul: I share a studio and gallery space in Loughborough, Studio at 17. It's sort of become a home.
00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:14.000
Paul: I'm still striving to make a decent living from art, as I planned since school.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:21.000
Emma: Funding is so inaccessible. Giving more financial security can help artists actually pursue their work.
00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:27.000
Miffy: The time and effort to get funding is intangible labor. You get ripped off or scammed.
00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:34.000
Miffy: Rejections are crushing blows, and that is all intangible labor.
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:41.000
Rob Watson: What’s the alternative? You’ve brought a group together like a community of friends.
00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:47.000
Miffy: There is no alternative, Rob. We’ve become a community through this process.
00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:54.000
Rob Watson: You're avoiding networking events and business development.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:01.000
Miffy: I have social anxiety. In the past, I had to get hideously drunk just to network.
00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:07.000
Emma: At my MA show, I was blackout drunk talking to a curator from Icon.
00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:14.000
Miffy: I was too hungover to open my show room when I was at Goldsmiths.
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:21.000
Mark: Coming from a working-class background, I always find it hard to deal with people in galleries.
00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:27.000
Mark: Bouncers wouldn't let me in openings. They could smell where I came from.
00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:34.000
Francis: Networking events are all spreadsheets and advertising on social media. I couldn't relate.
00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.000
Emma: Those sort of networks aren't suitable for arts. They see everything as a product to sell.
00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:47.000
Alison: A lot of us here don't make commercial art. Instagram is hard graft.
00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:54.000
Rob Watson: Quickfire round: what would be your ideal community of artists?
00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:01.000
Emma: I’d just like this to get bigger. Leicester’s community is hidden, but I want more.
00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:07.000
Alison: It's a privilege to be in a city. Being pushed out of my comfort zone is the way forward.
00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:14.000
Paul: The graffiti scene in Leicester is becoming huge. Mural after mural is impressive.
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:21.000
Francis: Talking to other artists about their work is important. Playing flute here is very freeing.
00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:27.000
Mark: A DIY ethos is inspiring. If you're not getting attention from galleries, do it yourself.
00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:34.000
Miffy: Art is bigger than just being about art. This is about community building and forming friendships.
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:41.000
Miffy: It’s letting people make their own desire paths through the space.
Would you like me to find out more about any of these artists' upcoming projects?
