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I think that's a positive thing.
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They are actually being forced to explain their value and why that is the fee.
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And it is a fee that they should be paid because we are d delivering a valuable service.
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Just like any other person that gets paid.
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Dentists, doctors, lawyers.
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The biggest the biggest misconception I think that is amongst consumers right now, because we hear it all the time, are buyers that think they can go directly to a listing agent and save money.
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You are absolutely doing a disservice to yourself when you do that because you're actually going to end up losing money.
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The loudest changes in real estate aren't always the real ones.
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Since the lawsuits, commission discussions are filled with new forms and nervous energy.
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But the big question remains did anything actually change about how we get paid?
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In this episode, we interview Sandy Burnham, who breaks down how new rules meet real life.
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She separates what changed on paper from what changed in practice.
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Listen in for the language and confidence you need to talk compensation without flinching so you can stop undercharging and start getting paid what you're worth.
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This is Sandy Burnham.
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Today, our special guest is another one of our colleagues, chief broker strategist and managing broker of our West Cobb office, Ms.
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Sandy Burnham.
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Hello, and welcome everybody.
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Welcome to being here today.
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You need notes?
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No, okay.
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Okay.
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All right, just check it.
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Just check it.
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We don't have notes.
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She and I don't have notes.
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Today's podcast is all about agent compensation, formerly commissioned, and how, if at all, that has changed since the historic 2024 National Association of Realtors settlement.
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But before we get into that discussion, I think it's best that we inform our audience who may not know what happened and how we got here.
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So in 2019, there was a class action lawsuit brought against uh National Association of Realtors, some MLSs and brokerages that they alleged that they were price fixing compensation or commission and that it was unfair to consumers, to home buyers and sellers.
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And so they reached a settlement in the spring of 2024.
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It was reached for$418 million.
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And the litigation, you know, really dove into the cooperative compensation piece of that.
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And so some of the biggest changes that happened for agents in today's marketplace, and since those new rules went into effect in 2024, was that agents now have to talk to their clients about compensation, who they're charging, why they're charging, what they're charging, how it could be shared, if it is shared.
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And then the other biggest change is there is no longer a compensation or commission field in any of the multiple listing services.
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So with that background, we can go ahead and get started with our discussion.
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So, Sandy, my question, first question for you is how long have you been managing broker at our West Cobb location?
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Um 11 years this year.
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Fantastic.
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Oh, yeah, pass by pass.
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Yeah, bye-bye.
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Wow.
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Oh, definitely wow.
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And how many agents do you have out of that location?
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About 490.
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Wow.
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And the numbers that we ran, or actually our CIO, Mr.
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Barry Arnold, ran is that uh your office closed over 2,400 transactions, totaling over a billion dollars in sales volume last year.
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Amazing.
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It is amazing.
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We have some fabulous agents and they do a lot of business.
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They keep us hopping.
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Yes, they do.
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Yes, they do.
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Well, that is what makes you a perfect guest for today's episode to talk about compensation and if it has all changed since the National Association of Realtors Settlement.
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So let's begin.
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Um has it changed?
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It has, and I think honestly, well, my agents are gonna probably shoot me when they see this, but I honestly think the compensation portion of it did change in in mostly a positive way because now it is forcing them to have the conversation with the clients rather than just filling in the numbers, going over everything else, looking at the house or talking to that buyer and showing the houses, and then just kind of sliding that in.
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Um, now they're actually having to have conversations about it and explaining it to them.
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Um, so I think that's a positive thing.
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They are actually being forced to explain their value and why that is the fee.
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And it is a fee that they should be paid because we are delivering a valuable service just like any other person that gets paid.
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Dentists, doctors, lawyers, everybody has a it gets paid or their services that they render.
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There's no difference for us.
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And I, you know, that's the one time I get on a little bit of a soapbox.
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I don't understand why we're constantly having to defend ours a little bit, why we we get that, but it's not the approach we should take.
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The approach we should take is that this is the value we're providing to you, and so I think it's helping agents have those conversations.
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Excellent.
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And uh ultimately buying a home is one of the biggest transactions that people make in their entire lives.
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Absolutely.
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So why would you not want to have representation and also be willing to compensate that professional for those services, walking you through that biggest transaction, typically the biggest transaction of somebody's life?
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Absolutely.
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Well, it's like being an airline pilot.
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You you are maybe your whole career, maybe most of your transactions are easy, but that one time you have a difficult transaction, you earn every dollar you've ever been paid.
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And I mean, it's uh it's bad representation will really cost you.
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Correct.
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You know.
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And on the buyer side, and think about this.
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Um, I know we've got one of our agents that that will post that I've shown this buyer X number of homes in the last year and a half.
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That buyer's agent does not get any agent does not get compensated typically until that transaction closes.
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So as a buyer's agent, you can show 40, 50, 60 homes over X number of months or even years and not be compensated for any of that work until that buyer ultimately finds a property that they close on.
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Absolutely.
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If they valued it at the per hour rate, I mean it it it would be awful.
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I mean, honestly, if if they actually looked at the number of hours the agents spend working with the clients, and then once they finally get that check out of closing table, hopefully they do, I mean, it's so minimal.
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It it barely covers all of their time and gas and all of the things.
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Plus, when they get those checks, that's not all theirs anyway.
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You know, a lot of people have that misperception as well.
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They just see the check.
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They don't think about the fact that no taxes came out of that.
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They have to pay a brokerage split in most cases.
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Right.
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There are other factors that come out of that.
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The MLS is charged needs.
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So, you know, there is a lot that cut goes into that.
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How do you find with agents, are they tanking this change of needing to communicate about what the commission compensation is?
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Are they doing well at it?
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So there are two types of agents I see most.
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And the ones that are doing it and doing it well are the ones who are truly explaining their value, what they are providing, what services they do, where their expertise is, they're assisting them with the negotiating, they're assisting them when issues through uh appraisal inspections, they're working with vendors, getting things lined up, they're talking to lenders, whichever side they're on, because even on the if you're the listing agent, you're communicating with that lender to make sure things are moving forward for that buyer because you're trying to protect your seller.
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You know, there is a lot that goes into it.
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And again, like Tony said, you're it's your biggest investment in most cases.
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You have an accountant in most cases.
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People have CPAs because they know money is important.
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Why would you not want representation to help you through this kind of a transaction?
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Um, so the agents who explain that and do it well are not struggling.
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As a matter of fact, to most of them, once they got past the, oh my goodness, this is a change, they sort of settle in and realize, oh, it's really not bad at all.
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We're fine.
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And they're not seeing a difference in what they're getting.
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The only ones who are struggling are the ones who still have their mind around the fact that they have to defend what they're asking to be paid, what their compensation will be.
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And they're going about it in more of a defensive manner, saying, Well, but I'll try to get.
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And they're not really focusing on what they're delivering because it is deserved.
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So they're the ones that are struggling just a bit.
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But I'm, you know, we're all, I know every broker here is trying to navigate with them the best ways of having those conversations.
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I get that.
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And that's that's the challenge, I believe, with this change.
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But it like you said, it's a good thing.
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It's a good thing to explain why the compensation is set up the way it is.
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Uh you might all remember advertisements where it said, Oh, use me as buyer's agent and you don't pay me anything.
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The seller pays it.
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Those days are gone.
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And it all it was always negotiable.
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That's the other thing.
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And that was, I think, one of the biggest misconceptions about these lawsuits that have us um some of us a little frustrated about it, is that no it wasn't always the seller's responsibility.
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It was always negotiable.
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Plus, it how is it really ultimately the seller's responsibility if it's built into the price of the property?
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So if the seller wants$500 and the buyer pays$500, didn't the buyer just participate in what the compensation was?
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Didn't they hand the money over?
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I would think so.
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You know, so I mean it's uh Alex Bonds, uh our managing broker at our Cartersville office, probably said it better than anybody else.
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He said last year at one point, he said, Y'all remember about a year or so ago when we had the uh all the talk about compensation, and nobody thought that they would be able to come out of this or any of that stuff.
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And he said, Here we are now, a year later, and we barely talk about it anymore.
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And all of that has to do with how consumers, because we better explained it, etc.
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But then again, we were talking about a very small, at least here in Georgia, small group of people.
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How can you get sued in our case by people we didn't even represent?
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Right.
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You know, none of us at this table got calls from consumers saying, Oh my god, I can't believe we're paying this, and how come we didn't know and all this, we didn't get that.
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Yeah.
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Because it really didn't exist.
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You know?
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No, and like you Attorneys.
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Attorneys.
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Yeah, they got a lot of money.
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Yes, they do.
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Yeah, let's talk about what they got paid.
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Um, but just like you said, I mean, and that's what once the agents truly wrap their head around it and realized and explaining it to the seller when they're filling out those listing agreements, it has always been the same way.
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It it's always been built into the price.
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The buyer has always been the one ultimately paying all of it, including the listing side, because all of the compensation has always been figured into that list price.
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Because every seller looks at what they want to make, the bottom line when they list a property.
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And as long as it's comparable and it's within reason, the agent's like, you're absolutely right, this is where we can go.
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And that is built in.
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The buyer is the only one who ever brings funds to the closing.
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So if you think about the old uh HUD ones, so if they'd had, you know, instead of two columns, if they'd had three columns and they had in the center the compensation, and then they took a certain percentage of that, whether it was 50-50 or not, and moved it over to each side, that that would have solved everything because then it would have shown everything.
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And are there people that gained the system that didn't tell the full story to sellers?
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Or are there instances where that happened?
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But again, if you're old enough and mature enough, whatever that means, old enough and mature enough, it to own a property, and then you get ready to dispose of property, the fact that you didn't read what you got from the agent, you know, how is again, I think the lawsuit did something that nobody the unintended consequence was that you can sign a contract today, and then two years from now, or three years from now, you don't like what the terms were, you can file suits.
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So it's it's almost as if it rendered contracts null and void, right?
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Useless, right.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.
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And that was one of the things that we thought here in Georgia, our contract forms are so strong.
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Thanks to the Georgia Association of Realtors and Fortress Committee, that when the lawsuit was first came about, we thought, boy, our contracts are going to keep us out of out of the fray.
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And we know that did not necessarily happen.
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Yeah.
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For for some firms in the Yeah, I won't I won't raise that spectrum.
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Yeah, yeah.
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We don't have enough time in the podcast talking about that.
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Yeah, that's the thing.
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Yeah, maybe that's a whole different podcast.
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Yeah, I can go down that road for sure.
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Well Oh, sorry, sorry.
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So think thinking about back to the agents, are some making more money now?
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Or are they renegotiating to a lesser amount?
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Actually, and I do have a funny story about that.
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I have one agent and she came and I it only came to my attention because she had an issue and she she came in and I'm going through all of her paperwork, and I see this special stipulation that she has written in her buyer breakerage agreement, and I kind of did a double take and I was like, wow, that's pretty cool.
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Did they and and they agreed to this because she had a step written that they were gonna pay her in addition to anything that the seller may have contributed or the seller's um uh breaker.
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And she said, Oh yeah, I put that in every one of my contracts now.
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She goes, When I'm explaining my value, she goes, I'm getting more now than I've so since the lawsuit, she has truly embraced it more so than probably any of my other agents.
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And she said, you know what, there I'm definitely having these conversations now.
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And it brought a spotlight to me, even on how much I actually do, and they're gonna pay me if they want to work with me.
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That was exactly how she put it to me.
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And her clients are doing it quite happily.
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Um, so yes, I think I I do, I do.
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Um, most of the agents, I can tell you, I the bulk of the agents that I speak to are not having an issue whatsoever getting exactly what they want to receive and what they feel their value is.
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They um uh will occasionally, if it's a certain circumstance with a client that they're like, you know what, they're I'm gonna, I'm gonna reduce this a little bit, or I'm gonna contribute a little to this, you know, if it's somebody they're close to, or if it's, you know, somebody that they're helping, because that's again, that's the type of agents we work for, which I work with, which I love.
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Yeah, um, who are always willing to help when the client needs something.
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And the fact that we as a brokerage give them the opportunity to do that and the permission to do that.
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I love that we do that because that's actually uh when I'm uh in a recruiting appointment, that is something I get asked a lot is do I have wiggle room?
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If I want to help one of my clients, do I have the ability to do that?
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And I love that here they do.
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If they choose to, they can run their business the way they want to run their business.
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That's right.
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Yes, in business by themselves, but not by but for themselves, but not by themselves.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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Because then, I mean, honestly, that's just gonna feed into more business for them, which is more business for us, because when they do those things, they're gonna get so many referrals.
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I had one agent um the end of last year who completely waived her compensation completely.
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Wow.
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Um, she even wrote a check um for the FLS fee because it was a client who was desperate and was in a terrible situation, and she contributed everything that she was getting to help them.
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And she asked me, she because it was all of it, and I said, The only thing we can't waive is, you know, and she said, I've I've got that.
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And I was like, So sweet.
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Well, she's already gotten two referrals from that because of course they're gonna tell everybody about what, you know.
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So those kind of things I think.
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I love that.
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I love those stories.
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But again, it's their choice.
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Agreed.
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Yeah.
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Comes back to when we went on the road uh the unreasonable hospitality.
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Oh, yeah.
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When we went took our roadshow uh around the steps offices and we talked about that.
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And uh interestingly enough, that book was brought up in the uh podcast that I listened to just the uh yesterday morning.
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I don't know if you heard the latest episode of that one, but uh yeah, they mentioned his favorite book was the Unreasonable Hospitality.
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Uh huh.
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Yeah, because if you make yourself memorable on something who wasn't who doesn't want to pay for representation.
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Right.
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I mean, nobody that's if if uh all of you were sellers and we were sitting down here, I don't think any one of you three would think, I bet I don't have to pay him anything.
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I mean, people that's just not the way it works.
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And they want to know what the numbers are, so they want to have the conversations, and we were reluctant as an industry to have those conversations.
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And part of what got us into that problem, or it got our industry into that problem, was there were brokerages that, and it came out in the in the trial that said they had in their policy and procedures manual, you must charge X.
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You cannot waver on that.
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And again, that's one of the great things about us being an independent and allowing our agents to run their business as they see fit.
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Uh they they can go ahead and do so.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:09.839
As long as they're within the rules and regulations of license law and the Georgia Real Estate Commission.
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:11.599
I love the disclaimer.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.759
Yeah, gotta have that.
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:14.880
All right, that's right.
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.599
Well, and it sounds to me like confidence is a big thing.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:30.640
An agent who has confidence in what their value is, they're able to give that to the whether it's the seller, whether it's their buyers who are paying it, they're able to convey that to them.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.720
What is your recommendation for an agent who doesn't have that confidence?
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.680
Then we need to sit down and talk about with your broker.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:45.519
Absolutely sit down and talk about that because you should, because you are delivering a good service.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.240
You're deserving, you're delivering value.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.279
So you should have confidence when you're talking about it.
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.680
This is what you do for a living.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.079
So you need to feel confident about it.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.799
If you don't have confidence in yourself, how in the world is that client gonna have confidence in you?
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:07.920
So delivering that confidently is important on so many levels because you're gonna be negotiating on their behalf.
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:19.440
So when you're negotiating your own compensation, if you can't do that effectively, how are they gonna have the faith that you're going to be able to navigate and negotiate on their behalf?
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.119
So I think you have to get stronger at those conversations.
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:28.400
And a lot of times it's not that they're they just don't know how to put it into words.
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:28.720
Yeah.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:38.160
So talking to their broker, getting out there and getting reminding them of the things that they do that bring the value.
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:53.519
Um, all of the navigate, all of the things they're going to be helping them with, like I said earlier, the appraisal issues, which come up all of the time, and how to get through that, you know, and inspection issues, knowing how to ask for certain things, what to ask for.
00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:08.960
And the biggest, the biggest misconception, I think, that is amongst consumers right now, because we hear it all the time, are buyers that think they can go directly to a listing agent and save money.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:18.319
You are absolutely doing a disservice to yourself when you do that, because you're actually going to end up losing money.
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:18.799
Of course.
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:23.039
Because that listing agent is working for the seller.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.039
They're not looking out for that buyer's best interest on any level.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.960
So they're not going to write that special step to protect the buyer, they're going to write it to protect the seller.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:44.559
Um, and explaining that those are the things, the nuances of every aspect of the contract, including the very beginning and writing the offer and what to offer.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.680
That listing agent is going to tell you, Oh, yeah, it's priced right.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.119
You need to come in at full price.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:49.599
Of course.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.559
But a buyer's agent is going to run comps.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.559
They're going to be able to say, Well, actually, this is a little high.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.200
I think we need to, and they're going to help you with that.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:03.920
So Letting agents know, remember what you do.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:05.359
Here's your value.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:11.839
You need to learn it so that you can explain it correctly and confidently to your c to your prospective.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:18.480
Yeah, and I think for me, that's always been the first people they have to learn to talk to about is themselves.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.880
Because the better the conversations, the more acceptance there is for everybody, you know?
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:40.319
On the front end.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:53.680
Last thing you want to do is get to the end of the transaction and then then look at the what what it what the fee was for the services rendered and then have a problem with how much that number is.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:54.160
Okay.
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:59.039
And unfortunately, is we for a long time we let that happen, you know.
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:01.759
And I don't mean Atlanta communities, I mean industry.
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:03.440
Absolutely.
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:04.640
Well, think about it.
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:11.359
If you're in the unfortunate situation where you have to go to court for one thing or another, are you going to go into court unrepresented?
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:26.559
Especially if it's but but that lawyer is typically going to go over with you before you sign the paperwork what they're going to do for you, what their charges are for their services.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.240
So it's really no different than what we as rules are expecting.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.000
Think about going to a doctor.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.680
So so this is interesting because I've seen a subtle shift about this.
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:43.440
So doctor's offices typically, this is because I have to go to the doctor, as because I'm old.
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:49.200
Um when you go to the doctor, you know, doctors make you pay your copay or whatever up front.
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:49.920
That's right.
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:57.759
Now, if we contrast that with dentists, dentists wait until after you come out of the treatment and then tell you what it cost.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:04.880
Now, the difference is if the dentist told you before the treatment, you'd say, that's okay.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.559
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.640
You know, let me go get some oral gel or whatever, fix that thing up.
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:19.039
But but I mean it really is just a subtle way of looking at how compensation in any number of industries is paid and and talking about it.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:28.480
You know, you're not gonna I I don't think very many people are gonna go to work and just hope they get paid what whatever, you know, whatever they happen to say.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.079
Oh, well, here, five dollars.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.079
Five dollars, that's all you're paying me.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.519
Yeah, that's all.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:35.440
You know, it's just not gonna happen.
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:37.920
Well, and then there's discount brokerages.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.079
Yeah.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:43.680
And there are these sellers and buyers who don't want to pay what your value is.
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.599
And what is your recommendation for agents that encounter that?
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:59.359
Well, I and so I they usually chuckle when I'm teaching my classes and I say this, but you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:12.000
And if they're not willing to respect what you do and what you're going to be doing for them, because you're not doing this for your behalf, you are protecting their interests.
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.599
And if they're not willing to respect that, I'm not gonna work with them.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:25.599
Now, if it's a client who's in a situation where, look, we have run the numbers, this is all we could possibly afford, then that's a different story.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:26.160
Absolutely.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:31.680
But if it's somebody that says, I'm only willing to pay you one, that's it.
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:32.799
That's all you're getting.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.119
I'm like, okay, well, I wish you well.
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.480
And that's what I tell my agents, you need to respect what you do.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:39.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:42.319
If you want anybody else to respect what you do.
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.559
So that's my conversation.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.559
Um, if in if they run into somebody like that, again, it's situational.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:55.519
Um, it is okay to walk away and say, nope, I'm not gonna take on this deal.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:56.559
Absolutely.
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.759
Yeah, and you can always say, Let me know how it goes after you hire that person.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:03.680
And uh then let me know.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.000
And I'm happy to help you second go round.
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:06.640
Exactly.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:14.240
What when the seller overprices like$75,000 and won't listen to you, and you're like be the second agent.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:15.039
Yep, yeah.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:17.279
I'd rather be your second or third agent.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:20.720
You let me know when that happens, and so I will eat you the best I can get you for you.
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.319
Which is the the original amount you had stated in the first point.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:40.160
Well, and then you know, if you think about Ninja, that what one of the things that Ninja talks about is the fact that you know what your plan is, you know what how you're going to approach sellers and how you're going to do what you're gonna do, and you lay your best plan out there.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:53.920
And if the seller makes the decision that they're not going to do that, you walk out of there okay, because you know that you did the best that you could do, offered the best thing, and did exactly what you would do for any number of people.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.640
They just happen not to decide to use you, you know?
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:57.920
And you gotta be confident.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:26:58.559
Absolutely.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:26:59.279
You know.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:12.319
I've got some information uh regarding the Consumer Federation of America and the National Urban League put out a study that was released in April of this year, and we can link to this in the show notes for anybody that wants to see it.
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.359
Just a couple of things.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:24.559
Uh, the Consumer Federation of America and the National Urban League surveyed 223 housing counselors across 37 states in July and August of 2025.
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:29.039
In addition, they conducted nine in-depth interviews of housing counselors.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:40.559
And housing counselors in these states provide individual guidance to dozens of first-time homebuyers to educate hundred and educate hundreds of consumers and home buyer classes each year.
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:52.400
Their responses reveal that while some confusion remains about the new commission rules, these changes have not emerged as an insurmountable barrier to first-time homebuyers.
00:27:53.039 --> 00:28:02.640
And furthermore, and I just you just a couple of pieces here, is their key finding number one, commissions have not significantly fallen since the settlement.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:12.079
Only 7% of counselors said that commissions have decreased compared to a year ago, with the majority of them saying that there was no substantial change.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:28.720
And so I take that to be that, you know, like I like we coach our agents here at Atlanta Communities, uh, that agents are having those conversations with their clients and and again displaying their value to that client, whether on the buyer side or the seller side.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:29.680
Absolutely.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:30.640
That's great news.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:31.839
And it is great news.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.160
That is truly what we see.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.039
Um we're not seeing a difference, truly.
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:43.680
Um the occasional one that is not it's just what the agent was willing to do.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:51.440
So I I love that that it's uh it's everywhere because that's certainly what I'm seeing amongst our our agents here.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.279
And unfortunately, this does not make the Consumer Federation of America happy.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:09.200
They have stated uh that they think uh real estate professionals in the United States are paid more than they deserve and want us to be similar to Australia or New Zealand.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.599
Move to Australia or New Zealand there.
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.759
Where the compensation is significantly lower than what we have here in the States.
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.319
Aaron Ross Powell Well, they pay more for gas in those two places, should they is that okay?
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:23.519
Great.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.440
We pay less, right?
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.599
So it's all relative.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:29.920
I mean, that's ridiculous.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.960
But again, we can link to this in the show notes for anybody who wants to see it.
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:39.279
Yeah, that was the attorney that was the law professor that said, yes, yes, I I remember her quite well.
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:59.119
So, Sandy, I would say the biggest thing an agent can do right now is to get more confident in their sales presence presentation, to be able to learn how to talk about compensation easily, um, confident about it, be able to truly know their value.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.559
Sometimes these agents walk in and they really don't know what their value is.
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:04.880
They need to be educated, they need to get help.
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:06.240
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:14.960
And there's not a broker in the company who wouldn't be willing to sit with that agent and go through it and give them the the language, help them.
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.400
You may not have ever put it into words, but this is what you do.
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:18.720
Yes.
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.319
And help them understand it so that then they do have that confidence.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.960
But you know, I've even done that with some of ours, and they're like, oh my gosh, I never thought about it.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:27.920
That is what I do.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:31.759
You know, and then they are better at having those conversations.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:47.519
So yeah, please talk to the broker, get help, understand how to explain it so that you know what you're worth and what you're giving of your time and your efforts and your expertise to that client.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:48.319
Yeah.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:57.119
We have one of our realtors in uh Atlanta Atvantage who told us that they were using AI to set up those conversations.
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:05.119
So they prompted AI to be a disgruntled potential seller who doesn't like real estate professionals, et cetera, et cetera.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:11.839
And then they would interview them to be uh the listing agent for them.
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:12.400
Interesting.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:22.960
And it was very b because they had no idea what was coming next from AI in terms of we don't like real estate agents and why are we going to pay you what you want and all these other things.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.279
And it really made a big difference in how they they learned how to do it and navigate it.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:44.079
Right, because you know how you know how when people well I mean, anytime we have a class or a workshop where we're trying to get uh do scenarios where they role play and nobody ever wants to role play.
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:44.720
Nobody.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.200
Well, AI will role play with you.
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.000
Absolutely.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:50.559
They will do it and they love it, you know.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.200
I can imagine.
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:52.799
That's a great exercise for you.
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:56.000
You know, build their confidence level.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:57.279
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:58.960
You know, who knows?
00:31:59.599 --> 00:31:59.759
Yeah.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.440
I got chat to buy a house.
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.759
But if you use me as my listing agent.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:04.559
Yeah.
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:05.359
How's that?
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:11.200
Well, Sandy, we have a special way that we kind of close things out each session that we do, each podcast.
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.440
Um, Mark, why don't you ask the question?
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.359
Well my gosh.
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:16.880
Am I ready?
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.160
Uh look at my notes.
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:27.039
Uh what recent book have you read that you would like to talk about?
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.519
Is that right?
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:28.480
Nailed it.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:29.599
Okay, good.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:38.079
Um, actually, the most recent one that I I actually reread was Multipliers by Liz Wiseman.
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:40.319
I don't know if even any of you have not heard of that, yeah.
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:56.319
So it's a really good one on helping with leadership and how to do it effectively so that you're not her perspective is there are diminishing types of leaders and there are multiplier types of leaders.
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:59.839
And the multiplier is the kind you clearly want to be.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.160
Um, because you attract people who are going to want to add value to your team.
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:11.599
Um, you learn how to um get set them up for success.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:26.880
You want to be the type of leader who encourages your team members to have an opinion and share it and give them the platform to do that and encourage them to come up with great ideas.
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:29.039
Don't just give them answers.
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:34.640
Help them navigate through figuring it out and and grow from it.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.240
And you know, so it's it's just a really I I really like it.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:38.960
It's a really good idea.
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.000
That sounds like a good one.
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:41.039
Yeah, it's really good.
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:43.519
Multipliers by L Liz Weisman.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.119
It came out in I think 2017.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.799
Yeah, I've read that one twice now, and I read it again just recently.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:52.640
And so I yeah, that's probably the most recent one I read that I really do like.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:53.440
That's good.
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:54.240
Excellent.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.000
So one more question.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:58.160
Oh, don't ask me the question.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:06.000
If you could have lunch cocktails with anyone current, historical, uh, who would that be and why?
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:07.200
And there is no wrong answer.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:14.400
Oh, you will absolutely laugh though, because I this is one I was asked in college as well, because you know, people always ask this question.
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.039
Right.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.679
And mine has never wavered even since high school.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:20.800
Wow.
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.440
Um, mine is Walt Disney.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.599
And not just because I love everything Disney, although I do.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.559
Um, everybody here knows I go on a trip twice a year.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:32.880
Yep.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:42.239
Um, but honestly, because of who he was and who he was as a leader, I found him from a very young age.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:50.559
I was enamored with him and his imagination and how he brought things to life that had never been.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.960
And he encouraged, it was I it's probably why I'm drawn to that book.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:03.840
He encouraged everyone around him to innovate and come up with things that were so far-fetched and then make it happen.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.840
Um, so I've always I watched a documentary, of course, I grew up in Florida.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:14.960
So I watched a documentary on him when I was probably 12, and I've been enamored since wonderful.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:15.920
It's a great answer.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.960
I didn't think that I should have known.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:19.119
Yeah.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:29.119
No, that's one of the well Sandy, thank you so much for joining us today and giving you expertise on all things compensation.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.159
We certainly appreciate your time and uh everything that you do.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:34.239
And thank you to my esteemed co-host as well.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.159
Thank you very much for today.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:37.840
And audience, thank you for joining us.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:48.400
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Atlanta Community's real estate brokerage.
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:56.239
Content shared is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered legal, financial, tax, or real estate advice.
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:01.440
Listeners should consult with their own licensed professionals before making business or real estate decisions.
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.440
Atlanta Communities Real Estate Brokerage is an equal opportunity employer and supports the Fair Housing Act.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.280
I think that's a positive thing.
00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:08.320
They are actually being forced to explain their value and why that is the fee.
00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:16.480
And it is a fee that they should be paid because we are d delivering a valuable service.
00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:21.359
Just like any other person that gets paid.
00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:25.359
Dentists, doctors, lawyers.
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:39.679
The biggest the biggest misconception I think that is amongst consumers right now, because we hear it all the time, are buyers that think they can go directly to a listing agent and save money.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:49.520
You are absolutely doing a disservice to yourself when you do that because you're actually going to end up losing money.
00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.520
The loudest changes in real estate aren't always the real ones.
00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.399
Since the lawsuits, commission discussions are filled with new forms and nervous energy.
00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:03.439
But the big question remains did anything actually change about how we get paid?
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:09.439
In this episode, we interview Sandy Burnham, who breaks down how new rules meet real life.
00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:13.680
She separates what changed on paper from what changed in practice.
00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:23.120
Listen in for the language and confidence you need to talk compensation without flinching so you can stop undercharging and start getting paid what you're worth.
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.280
This is Sandy Burnham.
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Today, our special guest is another one of our colleagues, chief broker strategist and managing broker of our West Cobb office, Ms.
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Sandy Burnham.
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Hello, and welcome everybody.
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Welcome to being here today.
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You need notes?
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No, okay.
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Okay.
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All right, just check it.
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Just check it.
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We don't have notes.
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She and I don't have notes.
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Today's podcast is all about agent compensation, formerly commissioned, and how, if at all, that has changed since the historic 2024 National Association of Realtors settlement.
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But before we get into that discussion, I think it's best that we inform our audience who may not know what happened and how we got here.
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So in 2019, there was a class action lawsuit brought against uh National Association of Realtors, some MLSs and brokerages that they alleged that they were price fixing compensation or commission and that it was unfair to consumers, to home buyers and sellers.
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And so they reached a settlement in the spring of 2024.
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It was reached for$418 million.
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And the litigation, you know, really dove into the cooperative compensation piece of that.
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And so some of the biggest changes that happened for agents in today's marketplace, and since those new rules went into effect in 2024, was that agents now have to talk to their clients about compensation, who they're charging, why they're charging, what they're charging, how it could be shared, if it is shared.
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And then the other biggest change is there is no longer a compensation or commission field in any of the multiple listing services.
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So with that background, we can go ahead and get started with our discussion.
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So, Sandy, my question, first question for you is how long have you been managing broker at our West Cobb location?
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Um 11 years this year.
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Fantastic.
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Oh, yeah, pass by pass.
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Yeah, bye-bye.
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Wow.
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Oh, definitely wow.
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And how many agents do you have out of that location?
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About 490.
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Wow.
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And the numbers that we ran, or actually our CIO, Mr.
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Barry Arnold, ran is that uh your office closed over 2,400 transactions, totaling over a billion dollars in sales volume last year.
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Amazing.
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It is amazing.
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We have some fabulous agents and they do a lot of business.
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They keep us hopping.
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Yes, they do.
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Yes, they do.
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Well, that is what makes you a perfect guest for today's episode to talk about compensation and if it has all changed since the National Association of Realtors Settlement.
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So let's begin.
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Um has it changed?
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It has, and I think honestly, well, my agents are gonna probably shoot me when they see this, but I honestly think the compensation portion of it did change in in mostly a positive way because now it is forcing them to have the conversation with the clients rather than just filling in the numbers, going over everything else, looking at the house or talking to that buyer and showing the houses, and then just kind of sliding that in.
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Um, now they're actually having to have conversations about it and explaining it to them.
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Um, so I think that's a positive thing.
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They are actually being forced to explain their value and why that is the fee.
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And it is a fee that they should be paid because we are delivering a valuable service just like any other person that gets paid.
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Dentists, doctors, lawyers, everybody has a it gets paid or their services that they render.
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There's no difference for us.
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And I, you know, that's the one time I get on a little bit of a soapbox.
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I don't understand why we're constantly having to defend ours a little bit, why we we get that, but it's not the approach we should take.
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The approach we should take is that this is the value we're providing to you, and so I think it's helping agents have those conversations.
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Excellent.
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And uh ultimately buying a home is one of the biggest transactions that people make in their entire lives.
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Absolutely.
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So why would you not want to have representation and also be willing to compensate that professional for those services, walking you through that biggest transaction, typically the biggest transaction of somebody's life?
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Absolutely.
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Well, it's like being an airline pilot.
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You you are maybe your whole career, maybe most of your transactions are easy, but that one time you have a difficult transaction, you earn every dollar you've ever been paid.
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And I mean, it's uh it's bad representation will really cost you.
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Correct.
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You know.
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And on the buyer side, and think about this.
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Um, I know we've got one of our agents that that will post that I've shown this buyer X number of homes in the last year and a half.
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That buyer's agent does not get any agent does not get compensated typically until that transaction closes.
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So as a buyer's agent, you can show 40, 50, 60 homes over X number of months or even years and not be compensated for any of that work until that buyer ultimately finds a property that they close on.
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Absolutely.
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If they valued it at the per hour rate, I mean it it it would be awful.
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I mean, honestly, if if they actually looked at the number of hours the agents spend working with the clients, and then once they finally get that check out of closing table, hopefully they do, I mean, it's so minimal.
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It it barely covers all of their time and gas and all of the things.
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Plus, when they get those checks, that's not all theirs anyway.
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You know, a lot of people have that misperception as well.
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They just see the check.
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They don't think about the fact that no taxes came out of that.
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They have to pay a brokerage split in most cases.
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Right.
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There are other factors that come out of that.
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The MLS is charged needs.
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So, you know, there is a lot that cut goes into that.
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How do you find with agents, are they tanking this change of needing to communicate about what the commission compensation is?
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Are they doing well at it?
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So there are two types of agents I see most.
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And the ones that are doing it and doing it well are the ones who are truly explaining their value, what they are providing, what services they do, where their expertise is, they're assisting them with the negotiating, they're assisting them when issues through uh appraisal inspections, they're working with vendors, getting things lined up, they're talking to lenders, whichever side they're on, because even on the if you're the listing agent, you're communicating with that lender to make sure things are moving forward for that buyer because you're trying to protect your seller.
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You know, there is a lot that goes into it.
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And again, like Tony said, you're it's your biggest investment in most cases.
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You have an accountant in most cases.
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People have CPAs because they know money is important.
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Why would you not want representation to help you through this kind of a transaction?
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Um, so the agents who explain that and do it well are not struggling.
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As a matter of fact, to most of them, once they got past the, oh my goodness, this is a change, they sort of settle in and realize, oh, it's really not bad at all.
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We're fine.
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And they're not seeing a difference in what they're getting.
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The only ones who are struggling are the ones who still have their mind around the fact that they have to defend what they're asking to be paid, what their compensation will be.
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And they're going about it in more of a defensive manner, saying, Well, but I'll try to get.
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And they're not really focusing on what they're delivering because it is deserved.
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So they're the ones that are struggling just a bit.
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But I'm, you know, we're all, I know every broker here is trying to navigate with them the best ways of having those conversations.
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I get that.
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And that's that's the challenge, I believe, with this change.
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But it like you said, it's a good thing.
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It's a good thing to explain why the compensation is set up the way it is.
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Uh you might all remember advertisements where it said, Oh, use me as buyer's agent and you don't pay me anything.
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The seller pays it.
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Those days are gone.
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And it all it was always negotiable.
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That's the other thing.
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And that was, I think, one of the biggest misconceptions about these lawsuits that have us um some of us a little frustrated about it, is that no it wasn't always the seller's responsibility.
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It was always negotiable.
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Plus, it how is it really ultimately the seller's responsibility if it's built into the price of the property?
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So if the seller wants$500 and the buyer pays$500, didn't the buyer just participate in what the compensation was?
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Didn't they hand the money over?
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I would think so.
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You know, so I mean it's uh Alex Bonds, uh our managing broker at our Cartersville office, probably said it better than anybody else.
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He said last year at one point, he said, Y'all remember about a year or so ago when we had the uh all the talk about compensation, and nobody thought that they would be able to come out of this or any of that stuff.
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And he said, Here we are now, a year later, and we barely talk about it anymore.
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And all of that has to do with how consumers, because we better explained it, etc.
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But then again, we were talking about a very small, at least here in Georgia, small group of people.
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How can you get sued in our case by people we didn't even represent?
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Right.
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You know, none of us at this table got calls from consumers saying, Oh my god, I can't believe we're paying this, and how come we didn't know and all this, we didn't get that.
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Yeah.
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Because it really didn't exist.
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You know?
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No, and like you Attorneys.
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Attorneys.
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Yeah, they got a lot of money.
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Yes, they do.
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Yeah, let's talk about what they got paid.
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Um, but just like you said, I mean, and that's what once the agents truly wrap their head around it and realized and explaining it to the seller when they're filling out those listing agreements, it has always been the same way.
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It it's always been built into the price.
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The buyer has always been the one ultimately paying all of it, including the listing side, because all of the compensation has always been figured into that list price.
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Because every seller looks at what they want to make, the bottom line when they list a property.
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And as long as it's comparable and it's within reason, the agent's like, you're absolutely right, this is where we can go.
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And that is built in.
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The buyer is the only one who ever brings funds to the closing.
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So if you think about the old uh HUD ones, so if they'd had, you know, instead of two columns, if they'd had three columns and they had in the center the compensation, and then they took a certain percentage of that, whether it was 50-50 or not, and moved it over to each side, that that would have solved everything because then it would have shown everything.
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And are there people that gained the system that didn't tell the full story to sellers?
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Or are there instances where that happened?
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But again, if you're old enough and mature enough, whatever that means, old enough and mature enough, it to own a property, and then you get ready to dispose of property, the fact that you didn't read what you got from the agent, you know, how is again, I think the lawsuit did something that nobody the unintended consequence was that you can sign a contract today, and then two years from now, or three years from now, you don't like what the terms were, you can file suits.
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So it's it's almost as if it rendered contracts null and void, right?
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Useless, right.
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Trevor Burrus, Jr.
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And that was one of the things that we thought here in Georgia, our contract forms are so strong.
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Thanks to the Georgia Association of Realtors and Fortress Committee, that when the lawsuit was first came about, we thought, boy, our contracts are going to keep us out of out of the fray.
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And we know that did not necessarily happen.
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Yeah.
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For for some firms in the Yeah, I won't I won't raise that spectrum.
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Yeah, yeah.
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We don't have enough time in the podcast talking about that.
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Yeah, that's the thing.
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Yeah, maybe that's a whole different podcast.
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Yeah, I can go down that road for sure.
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Well Oh, sorry, sorry.
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So think thinking about back to the agents, are some making more money now?
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Or are they renegotiating to a lesser amount?
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Actually, and I do have a funny story about that.
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I have one agent and she came and I it only came to my attention because she had an issue and she she came in and I'm going through all of her paperwork, and I see this special stipulation that she has written in her buyer breakerage agreement, and I kind of did a double take and I was like, wow, that's pretty cool.
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Did they and and they agreed to this because she had a step written that they were gonna pay her in addition to anything that the seller may have contributed or the seller's um uh breaker.
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And she said, Oh yeah, I put that in every one of my contracts now.
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She goes, When I'm explaining my value, she goes, I'm getting more now than I've so since the lawsuit, she has truly embraced it more so than probably any of my other agents.
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And she said, you know what, there I'm definitely having these conversations now.
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And it brought a spotlight to me, even on how much I actually do, and they're gonna pay me if they want to work with me.
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That was exactly how she put it to me.
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And her clients are doing it quite happily.
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Um, so yes, I think I I do, I do.
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Um, most of the agents, I can tell you, I the bulk of the agents that I speak to are not having an issue whatsoever getting exactly what they want to receive and what they feel their value is.
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They um uh will occasionally, if it's a certain circumstance with a client that they're like, you know what, they're I'm gonna, I'm gonna reduce this a little bit, or I'm gonna contribute a little to this, you know, if it's somebody they're close to, or if it's, you know, somebody that they're helping, because that's again, that's the type of agents we work for, which I work with, which I love.
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Yeah, um, who are always willing to help when the client needs something.
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And the fact that we as a brokerage give them the opportunity to do that and the permission to do that.
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I love that we do that because that's actually uh when I'm uh in a recruiting appointment, that is something I get asked a lot is do I have wiggle room?
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If I want to help one of my clients, do I have the ability to do that?
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And I love that here they do.
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If they choose to, they can run their business the way they want to run their business.
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That's right.
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Yes, in business by themselves, but not by but for themselves, but not by themselves.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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Because then, I mean, honestly, that's just gonna feed into more business for them, which is more business for us, because when they do those things, they're gonna get so many referrals.
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I had one agent um the end of last year who completely waived her compensation completely.
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Wow.
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Um, she even wrote a check um for the FLS fee because it was a client who was desperate and was in a terrible situation, and she contributed everything that she was getting to help them.
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And she asked me, she because it was all of it, and I said, The only thing we can't waive is, you know, and she said, I've I've got that.
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And I was like, So sweet.
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Well, she's already gotten two referrals from that because of course they're gonna tell everybody about what, you know.
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So those kind of things I think.
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I love that.
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I love those stories.
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But again, it's their choice.
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Agreed.
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Yeah.
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Comes back to when we went on the road uh the unreasonable hospitality.
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Oh, yeah.
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When we went took our roadshow uh around the steps offices and we talked about that.
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And uh interestingly enough, that book was brought up in the uh podcast that I listened to just the uh yesterday morning.
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I don't know if you heard the latest episode of that one, but uh yeah, they mentioned his favorite book was the Unreasonable Hospitality.
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Uh huh.
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Yeah, because if you make yourself memorable on something who wasn't who doesn't want to pay for representation.
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Right.
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I mean, nobody that's if if uh all of you were sellers and we were sitting down here, I don't think any one of you three would think, I bet I don't have to pay him anything.
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I mean, people that's just not the way it works.
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And they want to know what the numbers are, so they want to have the conversations, and we were reluctant as an industry to have those conversations.
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And part of what got us into that problem, or it got our industry into that problem, was there were brokerages that, and it came out in the in the trial that said they had in their policy and procedures manual, you must charge X.
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You cannot waver on that.
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And again, that's one of the great things about us being an independent and allowing our agents to run their business as they see fit.
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Uh they they can go ahead and do so.
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As long as they're within the rules and regulations of license law and the Georgia Real Estate Commission.
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I love the disclaimer.
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Yeah, gotta have that.
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All right, that's right.
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Well, and it sounds to me like confidence is a big thing.
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An agent who has confidence in what their value is, they're able to give that to the whether it's the seller, whether it's their buyers who are paying it, they're able to convey that to them.
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What is your recommendation for an agent who doesn't have that confidence?
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Then we need to sit down and talk about with your broker.
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Absolutely sit down and talk about that because you should, because you are delivering a good service.
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You're deserving, you're delivering value.
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So you should have confidence when you're talking about it.
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This is what you do for a living.
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So you need to feel confident about it.
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If you don't have confidence in yourself, how in the world is that client gonna have confidence in you?
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So delivering that confidently is important on so many levels because you're gonna be negotiating on their behalf.
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:19.440
So when you're negotiating your own compensation, if you can't do that effectively, how are they gonna have the faith that you're going to be able to navigate and negotiate on their behalf?
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.119
So I think you have to get stronger at those conversations.
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:28.400
And a lot of times it's not that they're they just don't know how to put it into words.
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:28.720
Yeah.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:38.160
So talking to their broker, getting out there and getting reminding them of the things that they do that bring the value.
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:53.519
Um, all of the navigate, all of the things they're going to be helping them with, like I said earlier, the appraisal issues, which come up all of the time, and how to get through that, you know, and inspection issues, knowing how to ask for certain things, what to ask for.
00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:08.960
And the biggest, the biggest misconception, I think, that is amongst consumers right now, because we hear it all the time, are buyers that think they can go directly to a listing agent and save money.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:18.319
You are absolutely doing a disservice to yourself when you do that, because you're actually going to end up losing money.
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:18.799
Of course.
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:23.039
Because that listing agent is working for the seller.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.039
They're not looking out for that buyer's best interest on any level.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.960
So they're not going to write that special step to protect the buyer, they're going to write it to protect the seller.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:44.559
Um, and explaining that those are the things, the nuances of every aspect of the contract, including the very beginning and writing the offer and what to offer.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.680
That listing agent is going to tell you, Oh, yeah, it's priced right.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.119
You need to come in at full price.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:49.599
Of course.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.559
But a buyer's agent is going to run comps.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.559
They're going to be able to say, Well, actually, this is a little high.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.200
I think we need to, and they're going to help you with that.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:03.920
So Letting agents know, remember what you do.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:05.359
Here's your value.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:11.839
You need to learn it so that you can explain it correctly and confidently to your c to your prospective.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:18.480
Yeah, and I think for me, that's always been the first people they have to learn to talk to about is themselves.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.880
Because the better the conversations, the more acceptance there is for everybody, you know?
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:40.319
On the front end.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:53.680
Last thing you want to do is get to the end of the transaction and then then look at the what what it what the fee was for the services rendered and then have a problem with how much that number is.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:54.160
Okay.
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:59.039
And unfortunately, is we for a long time we let that happen, you know.
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:01.759
And I don't mean Atlanta communities, I mean industry.
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:03.440
Absolutely.
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:04.640
Well, think about it.
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:11.359
If you're in the unfortunate situation where you have to go to court for one thing or another, are you going to go into court unrepresented?
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:26.559
Especially if it's but but that lawyer is typically going to go over with you before you sign the paperwork what they're going to do for you, what their charges are for their services.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.240
So it's really no different than what we as rules are expecting.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.000
Think about going to a doctor.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.680
So so this is interesting because I've seen a subtle shift about this.
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:43.440
So doctor's offices typically, this is because I have to go to the doctor, as because I'm old.
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:49.200
Um when you go to the doctor, you know, doctors make you pay your copay or whatever up front.
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:49.920
That's right.
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:57.759
Now, if we contrast that with dentists, dentists wait until after you come out of the treatment and then tell you what it cost.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:04.880
Now, the difference is if the dentist told you before the treatment, you'd say, that's okay.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.559
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.640
You know, let me go get some oral gel or whatever, fix that thing up.
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:19.039
But but I mean it really is just a subtle way of looking at how compensation in any number of industries is paid and and talking about it.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:28.480
You know, you're not gonna I I don't think very many people are gonna go to work and just hope they get paid what whatever, you know, whatever they happen to say.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.079
Oh, well, here, five dollars.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.079
Five dollars, that's all you're paying me.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.519
Yeah, that's all.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:35.440
You know, it's just not gonna happen.
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:37.920
Well, and then there's discount brokerages.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.079
Yeah.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:43.680
And there are these sellers and buyers who don't want to pay what your value is.
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.599
And what is your recommendation for agents that encounter that?
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:59.359
Well, I and so I they usually chuckle when I'm teaching my classes and I say this, but you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:12.000
And if they're not willing to respect what you do and what you're going to be doing for them, because you're not doing this for your behalf, you are protecting their interests.
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.599
And if they're not willing to respect that, I'm not gonna work with them.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:25.599
Now, if it's a client who's in a situation where, look, we have run the numbers, this is all we could possibly afford, then that's a different story.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:26.160
Absolutely.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:31.680
But if it's somebody that says, I'm only willing to pay you one, that's it.
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:32.799
That's all you're getting.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.119
I'm like, okay, well, I wish you well.
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.480
And that's what I tell my agents, you need to respect what you do.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:39.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:42.319
If you want anybody else to respect what you do.
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.559
So that's my conversation.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.559
Um, if in if they run into somebody like that, again, it's situational.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:55.519
Um, it is okay to walk away and say, nope, I'm not gonna take on this deal.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:56.559
Absolutely.
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.759
Yeah, and you can always say, Let me know how it goes after you hire that person.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:03.680
And uh then let me know.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.000
And I'm happy to help you second go round.
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:06.640
Exactly.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:14.240
What when the seller overprices like$75,000 and won't listen to you, and you're like be the second agent.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:15.039
Yep, yeah.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:17.279
I'd rather be your second or third agent.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:20.720
You let me know when that happens, and so I will eat you the best I can get you for you.
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.319
Which is the the original amount you had stated in the first point.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:40.160
Well, and then you know, if you think about Ninja, that what one of the things that Ninja talks about is the fact that you know what your plan is, you know what how you're going to approach sellers and how you're going to do what you're gonna do, and you lay your best plan out there.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:53.920
And if the seller makes the decision that they're not going to do that, you walk out of there okay, because you know that you did the best that you could do, offered the best thing, and did exactly what you would do for any number of people.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.640
They just happen not to decide to use you, you know?
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:57.920
And you gotta be confident.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:26:58.559
Absolutely.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:26:59.279
You know.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:12.319
I've got some information uh regarding the Consumer Federation of America and the National Urban League put out a study that was released in April of this year, and we can link to this in the show notes for anybody that wants to see it.
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.359
Just a couple of things.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:24.559
Uh, the Consumer Federation of America and the National Urban League surveyed 223 housing counselors across 37 states in July and August of 2025.
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:29.039
In addition, they conducted nine in-depth interviews of housing counselors.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:40.559
And housing counselors in these states provide individual guidance to dozens of first-time homebuyers to educate hundred and educate hundreds of consumers and home buyer classes each year.
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:52.400
Their responses reveal that while some confusion remains about the new commission rules, these changes have not emerged as an insurmountable barrier to first-time homebuyers.
00:27:53.039 --> 00:28:02.640
And furthermore, and I just you just a couple of pieces here, is their key finding number one, commissions have not significantly fallen since the settlement.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:12.079
Only 7% of counselors said that commissions have decreased compared to a year ago, with the majority of them saying that there was no substantial change.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:28.720
And so I take that to be that, you know, like I like we coach our agents here at Atlanta Communities, uh, that agents are having those conversations with their clients and and again displaying their value to that client, whether on the buyer side or the seller side.
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:29.680
Absolutely.
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:30.640
That's great news.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:31.839
And it is great news.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.160
That is truly what we see.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.039
Um we're not seeing a difference, truly.
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:43.680
Um the occasional one that is not it's just what the agent was willing to do.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:51.440
So I I love that that it's uh it's everywhere because that's certainly what I'm seeing amongst our our agents here.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.279
And unfortunately, this does not make the Consumer Federation of America happy.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:09.200
They have stated uh that they think uh real estate professionals in the United States are paid more than they deserve and want us to be similar to Australia or New Zealand.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.599
Move to Australia or New Zealand there.
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.759
Where the compensation is significantly lower than what we have here in the States.
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.319
Aaron Ross Powell Well, they pay more for gas in those two places, should they is that okay?
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:23.519
Great.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.440
We pay less, right?
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.599
So it's all relative.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:29.920
I mean, that's ridiculous.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.960
But again, we can link to this in the show notes for anybody who wants to see it.
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:39.279
Yeah, that was the attorney that was the law professor that said, yes, yes, I I remember her quite well.
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:59.119
So, Sandy, I would say the biggest thing an agent can do right now is to get more confident in their sales presence presentation, to be able to learn how to talk about compensation easily, um, confident about it, be able to truly know their value.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.559
Sometimes these agents walk in and they really don't know what their value is.
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:04.880
They need to be educated, they need to get help.
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:06.240
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:14.960
And there's not a broker in the company who wouldn't be willing to sit with that agent and go through it and give them the the language, help them.
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.400
You may not have ever put it into words, but this is what you do.
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:18.720
Yes.
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.319
And help them understand it so that then they do have that confidence.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.960
But you know, I've even done that with some of ours, and they're like, oh my gosh, I never thought about it.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:27.920
That is what I do.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:31.759
You know, and then they are better at having those conversations.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:47.519
So yeah, please talk to the broker, get help, understand how to explain it so that you know what you're worth and what you're giving of your time and your efforts and your expertise to that client.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:48.319
Yeah.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:57.119
We have one of our realtors in uh Atlanta Atvantage who told us that they were using AI to set up those conversations.
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:05.119
So they prompted AI to be a disgruntled potential seller who doesn't like real estate professionals, et cetera, et cetera.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:11.839
And then they would interview them to be uh the listing agent for them.
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:12.400
Interesting.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:22.960
And it was very b because they had no idea what was coming next from AI in terms of we don't like real estate agents and why are we going to pay you what you want and all these other things.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.279
And it really made a big difference in how they they learned how to do it and navigate it.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:44.079
Right, because you know how you know how when people well I mean, anytime we have a class or a workshop where we're trying to get uh do scenarios where they role play and nobody ever wants to role play.
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:44.720
Nobody.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.200
Well, AI will role play with you.
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.000
Absolutely.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:50.559
They will do it and they love it, you know.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.200
I can imagine.
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:52.799
That's a great exercise for you.
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:56.000
You know, build their confidence level.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:57.279
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:58.960
You know, who knows?
00:31:59.599 --> 00:31:59.759
Yeah.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.440
I got chat to buy a house.
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.759
But if you use me as my listing agent.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:04.559
Yeah.
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:05.359
How's that?
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:11.200
Well, Sandy, we have a special way that we kind of close things out each session that we do, each podcast.
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.440
Um, Mark, why don't you ask the question?
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.359
Well my gosh.
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:16.880
Am I ready?
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.160
Uh look at my notes.
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:27.039
Uh what recent book have you read that you would like to talk about?
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.519
Is that right?
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:28.480
Nailed it.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:29.599
Okay, good.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:38.079
Um, actually, the most recent one that I I actually reread was Multipliers by Liz Wiseman.
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:40.319
I don't know if even any of you have not heard of that, yeah.
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:56.319
So it's a really good one on helping with leadership and how to do it effectively so that you're not her perspective is there are diminishing types of leaders and there are multiplier types of leaders.
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:59.839
And the multiplier is the kind you clearly want to be.
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.160
Um, because you attract people who are going to want to add value to your team.
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:11.599
Um, you learn how to um get set them up for success.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:26.880
You want to be the type of leader who encourages your team members to have an opinion and share it and give them the platform to do that and encourage them to come up with great ideas.
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:29.039
Don't just give them answers.
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:34.640
Help them navigate through figuring it out and and grow from it.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.240
And you know, so it's it's just a really I I really like it.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:38.960
It's a really good idea.
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.000
That sounds like a good one.
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:41.039
Yeah, it's really good.
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:43.519
Multipliers by L Liz Weisman.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.119
It came out in I think 2017.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.799
Yeah, I've read that one twice now, and I read it again just recently.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:52.640
And so I yeah, that's probably the most recent one I read that I really do like.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:53.440
That's good.
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:54.240
Excellent.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.000
So one more question.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:58.160
Oh, don't ask me the question.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:06.000
If you could have lunch cocktails with anyone current, historical, uh, who would that be and why?
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:07.200
And there is no wrong answer.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:14.400
Oh, you will absolutely laugh though, because I this is one I was asked in college as well, because you know, people always ask this question.
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.039
Right.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.679
And mine has never wavered even since high school.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:20.800
Wow.
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.440
Um, mine is Walt Disney.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.599
And not just because I love everything Disney, although I do.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.559
Um, everybody here knows I go on a trip twice a year.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:32.880
Yep.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:42.239
Um, but honestly, because of who he was and who he was as a leader, I found him from a very young age.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:50.559
I was enamored with him and his imagination and how he brought things to life that had never been.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.960
And he encouraged, it was I it's probably why I'm drawn to that book.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:03.840
He encouraged everyone around him to innovate and come up with things that were so far-fetched and then make it happen.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.840
Um, so I've always I watched a documentary, of course, I grew up in Florida.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:14.960
So I watched a documentary on him when I was probably 12, and I've been enamored since wonderful.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:15.920
It's a great answer.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.960
I didn't think that I should have known.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:19.119
Yeah.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:29.119
No, that's one of the well Sandy, thank you so much for joining us today and giving you expertise on all things compensation.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.159
We certainly appreciate your time and uh everything that you do.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:34.239
And thank you to my esteemed co-host as well.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.159
Thank you very much for today.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:37.840
And audience, thank you for joining us.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:48.400
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Atlanta Community's real estate brokerage.
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:56.239
Content shared is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered legal, financial, tax, or real estate advice.
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:01.440
Listeners should consult with their own licensed professionals before making business or real estate decisions.
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.440
Atlanta Communities Real Estate Brokerage is an equal opportunity employer and supports the Fair Housing Act.
