Localizing Podcast Monetization Across LATAM

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But if you're not making any money, especially,
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I think this is very common in Latin America.
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I think joining a network is better than not
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joining one because more opportunities are going
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to come your way. What's it like to operate a
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podcast in another market? In a market where
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most people don't have an iPhone, Spotify is
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the consumption habit that most follow. Content
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works differently. The market as a whole is still
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trying to find its footing. That's exactly why
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I sat down with David Romer, the head of GEMA
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Media, which focuses on Latin America. He started
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as a corporate lawyer in Mexico, launched his
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own podcast, and found himself, almost accidentally,
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building a network that's part agency, part aggregator,
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and by necessity, radically transparent about
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what it can and can't offer podcasters. If this
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is your first episode, welcome. If you've listened
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to previous ones, thanks and welcome back. I'm
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Greg Wasserman, the host of this show, Podcast
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Network Insights. I spent 15 years in ad sales
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and since 2021, been immersed in the podcast
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ecosystem. I believe that life is about time
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and relationships. I've spent a lot of time building
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relationships with every kind of podcaster, from
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solo creators just getting started to heads of
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industry leading networks. If you have ever wondered,
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Whether joining a network makes sense, how these
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networks actually run, my goal is to give you
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a real look behind the scenes, so you can constantly
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navigate your next move. Whether you're hosting
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your own show, work in production, handle sponsorships
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and advertising, or do yourself run a network.
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Draw your own conclusions and thoughts, make
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your own notes, but allow me to point you in
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this conversation to pay attention to how Geneva
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Media structures its creator deals. Notice what
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changes, and sadly, what stubbornly stains the
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stain when you're building a podcast network
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in and for Latin America. Why video is mandatory,
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to how advertisers still need convincing, to
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the real constraints of market size and platform
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power, you'll hear how local context shapes every
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decision. If you're understanding of how networks
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is shaped by US conventions, this conversation
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will expand your map. On that note, let's get
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into this conversation. So David. The show is
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called Podcast Network Insights. First question
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I always like to lead with is you hear podcast
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networks. What comes to mind? Well, that's a
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great question. And thank you for having me,
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Greg. Yeah. I mean, I think when I think of podcast
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networks, I think of the meaning in the U .S.,
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which is basically a conglomerate of different
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podcasts. And I say this because in Latin America,
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I'm from Mexico. Podcast networks are also kind
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of agencies too. So there's really not a distinction.
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So basically, podcast networks, there's no such
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thing as an agency, as a podcast agency in Latin
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America. They don't exist. So basically, all
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of the agencies are publishers as well, or at
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least they distribute certain content. So yeah,
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it's a good question because I think about the
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two meanings. I don't know if that makes sense.
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No, I mean, that's a great segue into the fact
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that you are in Latin America, that you're the
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first network I'm speaking to. And so it's a
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great way to understand the nuances if we think
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about the global aspect of podcasting, to be
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able to bring what you've been doing to the market
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and get people then understanding beyond just
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what we hear and the states are probably thinking
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of from a podcast network. great answer. There's
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no wrong or right way to answer it. So I guess
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the next side to that is your background's not
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in podcasting. We take a step back here, right?
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Like you started in the legal side of it. So
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as someone who's in Mexico that started a network,
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which is an agency, it's a completely different,
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like how did you get into the podcast world?
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Yes. So, I mean, I studied law in Mexico, which
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is It's different from the US because basically
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once you graduate like college, you're a lawyer.
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It's not like you have to go to grad school.
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So it's simpler. But yeah, I was a lawyer, like
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a corporate lawyer for a couple of years. And
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I always had a passion for podcasts. Well, always,
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I mean, like since serial, I would say. And I
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was like pretty obsessed with what I could listen
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to. There was actually a podcast called more
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perfect from radio lab. I don't know if you ever
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heard it, which is like a legal spin -off and
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that I really enjoyed. And so basically that
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took me to start my own podcast with some friends,
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including my co -founder. And it was called Tripeando
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and we would basically interview cool people
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in Mexico, right? So we had our like our day
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jobs and we had this podcast, which started to
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grow a lot by 2018 standards and we actually
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had like a former president of Mexico in the
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podcast. Like it was pretty cool. And then it
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was just like the gimlet era where they acquired
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a lot of like Spotify acquired a lot of companies
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and we saw a lot of future in the business. My
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co -founder Inigo, he was like, I think I want
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to do this. He's an economist. So we both had
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nothing to do with podcasting and we wanted to
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produce like Gimlet, for example. But quickly
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we realized it was a very complicated business.
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And I think what was good for us is that we found
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out with our podcast that advertising was really
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hard in Latin America. We will listen to all
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of these podcasts in the US and they were full
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of ads, right? So we're like, okay, maybe there's
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an opportunity here. And I guess that was like
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the inception point. So you went from your own
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original podcast to where was the pinnacle of,
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all right, let's become an agency. Let's actually
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become a network. And were you just creating
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shows and finding clients and producing it for
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them? Or was it just the advertising side of
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it? No. So yeah, at first we had clients and
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we would produce for them. But at the same time,
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we were like, we really don't want to do this.
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This is too complicated. And we were doing very
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boring shows about I know, you can imagine like
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some bank wanted to do a podcast and the CEO
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would be the host. Yeah, it was not very fun,
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but it really helped us to bootstrap. And from
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there, we were like speaking to bigger podcasts,
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to bigger creators in Mexico and other countries
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in Latin America. And that's when basically we
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started realizing, okay, nobody's making money
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here, which is crazy. And I wish I could fast
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forward and say that things changed 180 degrees
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and now everybody's making a lot of money. Not
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the case, but there has been a lot of progress
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and we've been part of that wave, you could say.
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So everyone that's listening to this, I am going
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to butcher Spanish, but Guina Media is the network,
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right? Pronounce it for us. Yeah. Yeah, it's
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Genuina Media, but we always say Genuina Media,
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like imagine genuine. like the word genuine,
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but as a female. Basically, we wanted to make
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genuine content. And I don't know why we added
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the A at the end to make it harder. Keep it with
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the Latin vibes here. So if that was the case
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of why you guys ultimately have genuine content,
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you were looking at Gimlet as your idea of what
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kind of content you want to create, but you're
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also working in a market that's difficult. You're
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saying it hasn't changed too much. So is the
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content you're focused on. Built for just the
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Mexican market where you're based or have you
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been able to tap into the US and from creators
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who are here Spanish speaking that would love
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to reach the whole Hispanic community. That then
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your network is ultimately the place for it or
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or it's more because of the advertising side
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you're you're stuck within who wants to reach
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the not the Hispanic community but the Mexican
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community. No, so, I mean, we work a lot with
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Latinos in the US. There's such an important
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market. That's honestly how we started our advertising
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journey, because that's where most of the money
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would come from. But now we've expanded to Mexico
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and basically every other country in Latin America.
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We have basically worked with the biggest podcast
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in every country, including Brazil. And now we're
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actually working with Spain as well a lot. and
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trying to expand. So basically a lot of our focus
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has been to help US brands expand internationally
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or reach US Latinos. So is the network, how much
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of it is you're producing the shows? How much
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of it is just aggregating the shows and providing
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the, in a sense, the advertising sponsorship
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component to it? It's basically 90 % aggregating
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shows. And we do produce a few of our shows,
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but that's not too many for now. So what has
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been the hardest thing getting advertisers to
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reach the, I guess, as you said, hasn't been
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180. You wish in the last eight years, it's changed.
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Why? Why is it is podcasting is growing? What
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about it from the Latin Hispanic communities
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not reach that? I mean, I think it's several
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factors. Just for starters, I mean, Mexico. It's
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a huge country, yes, but imagine it has like
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a lower GDP than California or Texas. Like for
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advertisers, it's, I mean, it's an attractive
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market, but it's not, it's like, okay, let's
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expand internationally where we don't speak the
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language and it's like a whole different set
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of rules. And we can still tap into the U .S.,
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right? So it hasn't been very obvious for us.
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It has also been like evangelization process,
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where a lot of Mexican brands have also started
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to question themselves like, hey, what's up with
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podcast advertising? And we have been the ones
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who are like, hey, why don't you try it out with
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Januina? And the cool thing is that we measure
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everything. I think we've had the opportunity
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to really adopt the best practices from the U
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.S. which has been kind of like a crystal ball
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for us, like, oh, wow, this is how the market
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could look in the future in Latin America. So
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we really try to adopt what we learn all the
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time from US agencies and US networks and bring
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it to Latin. The brands, the Mexican brands or
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local brands that have advertised with us, they
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get like a complete different experience from
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what they usually say is based, like for them,
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it's equivalent to influencer marketing, right?
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But it's, this is like completely different.
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It's different attribution, different metrics.
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And most of them have seen good results. So they
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come back, which is super important. So if you're
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seeing not the 180 that you wanted in the expansion,
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if I was a podcaster who's going to be starting
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a podcaster already has one that's in Spanish.
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What would you say? Is there, is there something
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that you're telling that podcaster like, Hey,
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we're the right network for you to join because
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of X, Y, and Z, or you're like, you're probably
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not going to want to join our network because
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whatever. Yeah. Yes. I mean, we try to be very
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transparent with the podcasts we work with, especially
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in terms of the size, right? So if you're a podcast,
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it doesn't have like the minimum minimum downloads.
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What's the minimum you see? For us, it's about
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50 ,000 per month. So it's not that much compared
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to, I think, some US networks, but it's still,
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it's too hard to get there. That's the only thing,
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the only why we do this is because if not, it's
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very hard for you to see any money, right? And
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some of the podcasts are going to have advertisements
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in their podcasts when they click on them and
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they're going to get like $30. It's better to...
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to not have them sometimes, you know? So besides
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the advertising side, like walk us through what
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is it that you guys do as a network? How do you
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support your creators? How do you even look for
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your creators beyond just the advertising? Right.
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So, I mean, we always say that we are shooting
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at the same goal than this, like a soccer reference,
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than our podcasts. since we want them to grow
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and we want them to monetize, right? Because
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that's how we, it goes well for us as well. And
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so I think something that's very important is
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that we have, we are like one of the oldest,
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if not like the oldest network in Latin America.
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We know everyone at Spotify in Latam. We know
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everyone at Apple Podcast, you know, so we really
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push for the podcasting network to get traffic
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through those platforms, especially Spotify,
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since Spotify is king in Latin America. Very
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few people use Apple podcasts. And we also run
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a pretty serious cross -promotion program. We
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also help some podcasts advertise and use basically
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paid advertisement for certain channels. basically
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understand how to grow a podcast when it comes
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to Spanish shows or Latin American shows. And
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I mean the monetization. I think that's the biggest
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differentiator from more than any other network,
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right? Programmatic is one thing that you cannot
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get everywhere in Latin America. It's very hard
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still to monetize programmatically. So our focus
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is direct sales. That's how we call when a brand
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comes to us and they're like, hey, I'm looking
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for a campaign in Chile and I want people that
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are interested in business and finance in Chile.
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So that's like very specific. And I think we
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understand what they're looking for, right? So
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.759
we know basically all of the podcasts in Chile
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.700
that have a certain size. We know how they work,
00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.919
like basically everything about them. And I think
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:21.080
that's what gives it like a very genuine apology
00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:29.409
for the pun. touch, right? You don't want a Mexican
00:15:29.409 --> 00:15:32.210
podcast advertising something about Chile, right?
00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:33.889
Because there are different countries, different
00:15:33.889 --> 00:15:38.350
cultures, whatever. Maybe there could be an example
00:15:38.350 --> 00:15:40.350
where you would want that, but most of the times
00:15:40.350 --> 00:15:43.330
you don't. And I think a lot of people can get
00:15:43.330 --> 00:15:47.649
that confused and you have to be very intentional
00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:52.379
of the campaign you want to do. So if I'm looking
00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:55.860
to join, I got the 50 ,000 downloads from a Spanish
00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:59.559
podcast based in America, you would want to look
00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:01.940
at joining your network or no, it's got to be
00:16:01.940 --> 00:16:06.059
someone in the Latam market. No, no, no, not
00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:08.679
at all. I mean, actually, you can also be an
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:13.580
English language podcast. We do push for Latino
00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:19.120
hosts, which I don't know if you are, Greg. No.
00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:23.820
I may look it, but no. You're in L .A., right?
00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:27.440
Right. Yeah. I mean, no, we do have some shows
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:30.840
in English. I think like 15 % of them, which
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:35.419
are Latino hosted. So you can be basically anywhere.
00:16:35.419 --> 00:16:38.340
It doesn't really matter. And we always love
00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:40.320
to talk to podcasts. That's what I do all day.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.460
So if you go into our site and just like leave
00:16:43.460 --> 00:16:47.240
a form. We'll definitely contact you. So what
00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.720
are you looking for? I guess anyone that's listening,
00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:52.480
that's trying to understand what are the red
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:54.940
flags? What are the green flags that you are
00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:57.500
evaluating when you're deciding is this show
00:16:57.500 --> 00:16:59.440
worth joining our network? Because from where
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.659
I sit, and this is why I started this show, is
00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:04.039
think about how many podcasters think that the
00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:07.319
idea of joining a network is a holy grail. They're
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.410
like, oh. I've made it they're going to help
00:17:09.410 --> 00:17:11.250
me grow they're going to help me monetize but
00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:13.109
they don't really understand all the questions
00:17:13.109 --> 00:17:15.049
that they should be considering when they're
00:17:15.049 --> 00:17:17.430
thinking or why your network over any others
00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:18.930
I mean that's the other reason why this show
00:17:18.930 --> 00:17:22.390
exists so we can shed light on your network which
00:17:22.390 --> 00:17:24.309
everyone may not know and they're may thinking
00:17:24.309 --> 00:17:26.369
I've got to go join this other network just because
00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:29.309
that's the only network they may know. So what
00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:31.690
are those red and green flags that you're evaluating
00:17:31.690 --> 00:17:34.640
new podcasters to join the network on? Well,
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.700
I really try to think about it in a very direct
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.000
and transparent way with the podcast, because
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.380
I understand I'm a podcast myself. You're a podcaster.
00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.559
It's like a baby, right? So if a podcast is already
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.440
making money and they're comfortable, they really
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.940
should think about if joining a network is a
00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:54.900
good idea for them, right? Like what are the
00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:56.500
opportunity costs they're leaving the table?
00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:00.500
But if you're not making any money, especially,
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.240
I think this is very common in Latin America,
00:18:02.380 --> 00:18:05.579
I think joining Joining a network is better than
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:08.180
not joining one because more opportunities are
00:18:08.180 --> 00:18:10.720
going to come your way. And you might not make,
00:18:11.180 --> 00:18:13.859
if you're not that big, I mean, that's also very
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:15.420
straightforward. If you're not that big, you're
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.400
not going to make that much money. And something
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.180
that's unfortunate, but I think it's real, well,
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.660
at least in our case is that we, like the business
00:18:25.660 --> 00:18:29.819
model is to have a lot of podcasts and we can
00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:33.500
mostly pay attention to to the bigger ones, right?
00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:34.880
Because that's the one they're generating the
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.880
most money. And sometimes that feels, for smaller
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.220
podcasts, that like they're not getting the attention
00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:44.519
they require. And that's completely understandable.
00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:48.900
But that's just like how, like that's the, I
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:51.079
think like the nature of how networks work in
00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:54.180
a sense. But yeah, I would say like, if you're
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:57.420
already making money, think about this, like
00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:02.430
if you understand how, how to monetize already,
00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:08.049
you already did the most important steps, and
00:19:08.049 --> 00:19:10.549
get a deal that actually makes sense for you.
00:19:11.569 --> 00:19:15.569
Us, for example, I think we have a very interesting
00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:19.150
model where we have no exclusivity with the podcasts.
00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:21.950
We're like, hey, we're going to bring you the
00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:23.890
campaign. If you want to take it, that's great.
00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:26.069
If you don't want it, no problem. And if some
00:19:26.069 --> 00:19:28.740
other agency brings you a campaign, That's all
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:31.359
you and the other agency or if a brand reaches
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:35.640
out to you directly, no problem. So we just want
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:39.900
to add value and we really want to take just
00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:42.940
a cut from the work we bring in and that has
00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:47.259
been successful too. So I mean, you guys, if
00:19:47.259 --> 00:19:49.930
anyone goes to their website, you'll see... Their
00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:53.170
branded, their podcasts have the network brand
00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:56.210
all over it. So you've got, as you said, bring
00:19:56.210 --> 00:19:58.549
them in, even if you're already monetizing, join
00:19:58.549 --> 00:20:00.230
the network. Because in that sense, what you
00:20:00.230 --> 00:20:02.230
guys are doing is from the cross promotion, helping
00:20:02.230 --> 00:20:03.930
from an audience growth. You're not just doing
00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:07.190
the monetization, but also allowing them to get
00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:09.670
monetization wherever they can get the monetization
00:20:09.670 --> 00:20:12.569
to fill. Because I guess from what you're saying,
00:20:12.869 --> 00:20:16.009
it's a hard market. And if your sales team can't
00:20:16.009 --> 00:20:19.539
go and get all the sales for every show, at least
00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:21.559
this podcaster has the ability to get revenue
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.319
wherever they're able to get revenue. Yes, exactly.
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.640
Just like you said, worst case scenario, you're
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.140
in the same position you were before joining
00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:35.079
the network, right? It's your podcast, your content,
00:20:35.420 --> 00:20:38.339
your IP, and actually if things are not working
00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:40.980
or you get a buried deal, We do have an agreement,
00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:44.279
of course, but like we never work with a podcast
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.160
when the podcast doesn't want to, you know, like
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.819
we, we send a contract, take your podcast to,
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:53.460
to the whole things I do before. Like we want
00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:55.299
the podcast to be happy, you know? So that's
00:20:55.299 --> 00:20:57.460
also very important for us. So how large is the
00:20:57.460 --> 00:21:02.079
network right now? So we have over 230 podcasts
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:08.480
in the network, directly in, let's say like in
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.319
in the hosting site or account of Genuina, but
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:14.559
we work with a lot of other podcasts that we
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:18.240
call partners, they're independent and they're
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.519
bigger and they just like have their own setup.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:28.279
So the 200 includes those others? No. All right.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.259
So you've got even more. So you're always then,
00:21:30.339 --> 00:21:33.400
are you always looking to add more shows or to
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:35.099
your point, you're like, look, it's the 80 -20
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:38.400
rule. Uh, we want the bigger shows. We'll keep
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:43.400
adding, but just know what we're adding is, is
00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:45.900
it's hard to manage them all. I mean, no, we're
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:49.200
always trying to add more shows that we're always
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.539
trying to be very transparent. Like we're not,
00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:55.960
we're not like, as you mentioned, like some podcasting,
00:21:56.059 --> 00:21:57.880
the joining of partners is going to change their
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.940
lives. And it could, but if you don't have the
00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:04.200
right size or sometimes the content is very important,
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.190
right? Like in Mexico, for example, business
00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:10.710
and investing are like, they sell super good,
00:22:10.710 --> 00:22:14.410
you know, but if you do true crime, a lot of
00:22:14.410 --> 00:22:15.910
brands are like, no, I don't want to get involved
00:22:15.910 --> 00:22:20.329
in that. Right. So we really want to do like
00:22:20.329 --> 00:22:23.410
a very transparent diagnostic of the podcast,
00:22:24.069 --> 00:22:27.329
but we also want the stakes to be very low. Like,
00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:30.710
Hey, try it out. If it doesn't work, you'll be
00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:33.109
back where you were and you already had the experience.
00:22:34.579 --> 00:22:38.099
So what would you say besides being is your mind
00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:41.839
the the oldest let's am you know network the
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:44.940
model where You've got these exclusivities in
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.140
terms of they're hosted with us, but you're also
00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:49.980
you want to go ahead and sell So where is it
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.160
that you feel you guys excel when we compare
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.400
at the network landscape? Why have you modeled
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.599
your business or have you modeled it off of someone
00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:01.680
else or you just kind of? We're doing what's
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.710
right and we'll just keep pivoting as we go Yeah,
00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:07.470
I mean, for us, sales is the most important part,
00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:11.529
right? So the client is the brand for us. And
00:23:11.529 --> 00:23:16.589
I think that sometimes hard to understand when
00:23:16.589 --> 00:23:19.089
it comes to networks. A lot of networks I've
00:23:19.089 --> 00:23:21.569
heard they call their podcast clients, right?
00:23:21.750 --> 00:23:24.410
Which is interesting. But for us, the podcasts
00:23:24.410 --> 00:23:28.269
are like partners or providers in a way. And
00:23:28.269 --> 00:23:31.559
our client is the brand. And at the end of the
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:34.059
day, that's what we try to protect the most.
00:23:35.539 --> 00:23:39.039
And there have been occasions for us where the
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.200
brand is looking for a specific audience and
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.839
we don't have it in the network. So we go to
00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:49.400
another network to try to find that. So it's
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:52.059
at the end of the day, we want the campaign to
00:23:52.059 --> 00:23:56.000
do well. And that, that can be a bit confusing
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.799
because like the podcast are our partners in
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.559
a sense, but they're not like the focus of what
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:05.940
we do, right? The focus of what we do is selling
00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:09.279
campaigns. So it's less about how do I help this
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:11.759
podcasters grow or give them the resources for
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.759
growth besides, I guess, you know, podcast swaps
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:19.380
and cross -promoting with the network. But it's
00:24:19.380 --> 00:24:21.660
more of like our time and energy from what you
00:24:21.660 --> 00:24:24.740
guys do is let's go find brands. Let me go activate
00:24:24.740 --> 00:24:28.930
with our podcasters to close some sponsorship
00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:35.109
or ad deals. Is that it? Yeah. Like I said, we
00:24:35.109 --> 00:24:37.609
really try to be transparent with the podcast
00:24:37.609 --> 00:24:42.190
and we say, hey, we're going to try to help you
00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:45.710
grow. But that's not our focus. Our focus is
00:24:45.710 --> 00:24:50.430
making money for you and for us. And I think
00:24:50.430 --> 00:24:52.690
most of our podcasts appreciate a no bullshit
00:24:52.690 --> 00:24:56.619
approach. It's very hard to put on numbers. How
00:24:56.619 --> 00:24:58.900
are you going to help them grow? Sometimes they
00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:03.440
expect something and you disappoint. So for us,
00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:06.579
it has always been better. Like we help in the
00:25:06.579 --> 00:25:09.480
commercial arm of your podcast. You focus on
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:13.880
the content and that has been like the best partnerships
00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:17.700
we have done. That where we both understand the
00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:20.500
role, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I get it. It's...
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:22.640
At the end of the day, it's sales. We're here
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.460
to help you sell. We're going to go find the
00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:28.579
brands that will drive everyone the revenue that
00:25:28.579 --> 00:25:31.059
we're all looking for. So the shows you're actually
00:25:31.059 --> 00:25:34.500
looking for would be shows that want to monetize.
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.339
A good fit for your network to expand beyond
00:25:37.339 --> 00:25:40.059
the 200 is someone who's actually looking for
00:25:40.059 --> 00:25:43.880
a sales arm as opposed to any other form. True.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:49.539
100%. So if you were to start your network, differently
00:25:49.539 --> 00:25:52.140
today than you did previously, what would have
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:54.559
changed? How would you have modeled it today,
00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.700
what you know now versus what you did? What was
00:25:57.700 --> 00:26:02.319
this, four or five years ago? Yes. I mean, that's
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.759
a great question because I mean, of course we've
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:08.279
had a lot of mistakes during these five years,
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.279
a lot, but I mean, because some podcasts have
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.440
gone to competitors. I mean, we've always wondered
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.460
like, hey, maybe we should have had like stricter
00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:21.119
contracts or stuff like that, especially me being
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.059
like a lawyer, you know? I mean, we really understood
00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.420
that I think like from the beginning that we
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:32.640
are a pretty small player when it comes to the
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.119
podcast industry, even in Latin America, we are
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.119
completely bootstrapped. We never had like cash
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.640
in hand. We started this from scratch, in you
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:46.970
and myself. So we had to grow basically on our
00:26:46.970 --> 00:26:50.769
word with the podcast, right? And I think for
00:26:50.769 --> 00:26:55.529
us, it has been very fun to create like these
00:26:55.529 --> 00:27:00.970
relationships with the podcast and bringing them
00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:04.109
a revenue, right? Because it really helps them
00:27:04.109 --> 00:27:06.109
to keep doing what they love and what they're
00:27:06.109 --> 00:27:09.089
good at. And if I had to start again, I would
00:27:09.089 --> 00:27:12.150
change like a million things. But I think the
00:27:12.150 --> 00:27:16.630
core of what we do and how we do it I would keep
00:27:16.630 --> 00:27:19.750
it, you know, because for us, it was never like,
00:27:20.250 --> 00:27:23.109
you have to stay in Genuina because we have an
00:27:23.109 --> 00:27:25.750
agreement or you have to do this campaign because
00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:27.970
we already got it for you. It's like, no, we
00:27:27.970 --> 00:27:31.329
understand. It's your podcast. It's your content.
00:27:32.029 --> 00:27:34.910
We want help. And if we can't, that's okay. You
00:27:34.910 --> 00:27:36.650
guys are just nice guys. We're like, we're here
00:27:36.650 --> 00:27:38.589
to just help you. We'll make money for everyone
00:27:38.589 --> 00:27:40.369
if you want it. If you don't find it, we'll find
00:27:40.369 --> 00:27:42.470
a better deal or go find your own deal, right?
00:27:43.299 --> 00:27:46.720
Honestly, yeah, I mean, it sounds very nice like
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.059
that, but yeah, like that's how we try to think
00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:51.420
about it, you know? Now, I mean, I look at some
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:53.420
of the conversations I've already had and we've
00:27:53.420 --> 00:27:55.980
recorded, haven't yet been released. It's just
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:58.980
a matter of how many people in the network space,
00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:01.440
regardless of how they started their background,
00:28:01.700 --> 00:28:04.019
ultimately have commented in like, we're here
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:06.880
to serve, we're here to help, we're here to give
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.460
back. And that's kind of the arc that you're
00:28:09.460 --> 00:28:13.099
following along with others. Yes, I mean, I think
00:28:13.099 --> 00:28:17.299
that's the most important thing. It's well, no,
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.740
I think it's the second most important thing.
00:28:18.819 --> 00:28:23.579
The most important for 99 .9 of the podcast we
00:28:23.579 --> 00:28:26.920
work with is revenue. Like they do care that
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:28.900
you're nice and that you're responsive and then
00:28:28.900 --> 00:28:33.299
you try to grow the podcast. But if you're not
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:38.660
bringing deals and they could get deals somewhere
00:28:38.660 --> 00:28:41.700
else, they're going to leave, right? So So how
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:45.059
come you guys have focused only on the I shouldn't
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:48.259
say only that that trivializes it but your big
00:28:48.259 --> 00:28:50.759
focus has been on sponsorships and ad deals and
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.859
not going maybe and other monetization Avenues
00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:56.200
like taking IP in these shows and going like,
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.160
okay How do we help turn this show into you know
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.259
a TV show or a movie or or whatever? Aspects
00:29:02.259 --> 00:29:04.819
there are what is allowed you to just say, you
00:29:04.819 --> 00:29:07.440
know what our focus is on the advertising side
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:09.619
And that's where we're gonna keep the blinders
00:29:09.619 --> 00:29:12.279
on instead of going other monetization and growth
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:16.799
engines. And to be honest, it was just like a
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.200
natural path for us because we had no money and
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:24.220
producing is expensive. So we've always wanted
00:29:24.220 --> 00:29:26.660
to have owned and operated and it's something
00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:31.339
we're looking for in the future. Since I think
00:29:31.339 --> 00:29:33.759
we have a better understanding of what works
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:38.099
and what doesn't and how to grow. But it has
00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:40.990
taken us a lot of time to to be in a position
00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:43.490
where like, okay, maybe we can try it now. Because
00:29:43.490 --> 00:29:47.769
I think being an agency as we are has been the
00:29:47.769 --> 00:29:51.750
leanest way to do it as of now. I mean, because
00:29:51.750 --> 00:29:55.289
at the end of the day, you're eating, in a sense,
00:29:55.650 --> 00:30:00.109
based on, can I sell ads? Can I, as opposed to
00:30:00.109 --> 00:30:01.730
like, all right, the production side, you've
00:30:01.730 --> 00:30:04.369
got a look at how many agencies or networks it
00:30:04.369 --> 00:30:05.630
should say, or like, all right, they've got the
00:30:05.630 --> 00:30:09.089
owned and operated. They own that content. They're
00:30:09.089 --> 00:30:10.829
the production side of it. So maybe they can
00:30:10.829 --> 00:30:13.150
make the money there. But for the most part,
00:30:13.250 --> 00:30:16.690
while you do have a few shows, your 200, you're
00:30:16.690 --> 00:30:20.849
on the ad side, right? Yes. And I mean, it's
00:30:20.849 --> 00:30:23.450
amazing for some companies or networks to be
00:30:23.450 --> 00:30:25.970
able to produce their own shows. Especially I
00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:29.589
think in the US, it makes way more sense if the
00:30:29.589 --> 00:30:30.990
show does well, because you can make a lot of
00:30:30.990 --> 00:30:34.569
money. But in Mexico, just like producing a show,
00:30:34.730 --> 00:30:37.670
I mean, it can cost a bit less than it costs
00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:40.049
like producing it in the US. But if it doesn't
00:30:40.049 --> 00:30:42.509
do well, you lost all your money. It's like if
00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:46.470
you do a TV show and nobody watches it, it's
00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:50.690
hard. It's a big bet. So you do have to have
00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:54.450
capital to invest, I would say, in producing.
00:30:55.139 --> 00:30:58.640
Yep, the capital, it's always the money train,
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:02.259
right? How do we do that or how do we find it?
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:04.319
I have to go back to your comment, which I kind
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.180
of joke on when you said it is like you first
00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:09.839
doing, you know, it's a corporate client who's
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.079
a banker and it was kind of boring. But in reality,
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:14.839
like those are probably the clients that are
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:17.099
paying you the money that allow you to get the
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.420
capital to do, I guess, not the advertising side,
00:31:20.420 --> 00:31:23.539
but the train that you may want, right? Yeah,
00:31:23.539 --> 00:31:28.380
I mean, For us, that example was what gave us
00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:32.059
the opportunity to start the agency. Because
00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:34.440
at the beginning, as well, we were making no
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:37.299
money out of ads, right? It took us a while.
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:39.900
You need volume at that place. You didn't have
00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:43.259
it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You need a lot of volume
00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:46.559
and you need clients and it's a journey. And
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:50.380
we're producing podcasts for companies has been
00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:54.359
our starting point, actually. I think this year
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:59.579
we, it's like after five years, we stopped producing
00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:03.519
for our first client, which was a bit sad, but
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.720
it was like part of the national process of the
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.519
company, which was also exciting. Like, hey,
00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:10.940
we've been doing this because we love you and
00:32:10.940 --> 00:32:13.880
you were honestly helped us so much, but like
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.220
we can't do it anymore. You know, like it doesn't
00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:19.119
make sense for us. Yeah. So that has been also
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.380
an interesting journey. Five years, there you
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:25.380
go. Well, I guess that shows to, I guess, ask
00:32:25.380 --> 00:32:28.079
the question here. What is it that a podcaster,
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:29.920
and if I'm listening to this right now and I've
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:33.779
got a podcast, I'm thinking of starting a podcast
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:36.339
you've been doing. You've been podcasting for
00:32:36.339 --> 00:32:39.220
what? Seven, eight years. Uh, you've been doing
00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:42.359
the network for four. What is, what is it that
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:45.599
I need to be doing to be successful? I mean,
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:53.960
I think now more than ever. you need video, which
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.759
I think maybe you didn't need a few years ago.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.819
Especially if you want to grow to a certain size,
00:33:01.059 --> 00:33:03.880
I think video is more important than ever. I
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.099
think you need consistency. I imagine, Greg,
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.519
that so many people have come through the years
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.880
and are like, hey, I'm starting a podcast. What
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:16.140
microphone do I need? And you're like, don't
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:17.680
worry about the microphone. What are you going
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:22.720
to say? Really focus on the content and being
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.559
consistent because it really takes a long time.
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:32.119
It looks way easier than it is. I know hundreds
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.440
of podcasts that are in the podcast cemetery
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:39.160
of ideas and of people that live it after three
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:43.220
months or six months. And that's... That's a
00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.640
hard part for me. Like, are you going to be consistent?
00:33:45.740 --> 00:33:47.619
Are you going to be there every week? Do you
00:33:47.619 --> 00:33:50.640
love doing this without making any money? If
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.900
not, I would, I would rethink it. So you, you,
00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:57.279
uh, you led me to the, I guess the standard question
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:01.980
on video. So you guys have gone down video. You're,
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:04.500
you're not only just doing the audio shows. Most
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:07.579
of your 200 shows have moved into video. Is that
00:34:07.579 --> 00:34:11.039
right? Yes, I mean to be fair as well, I would
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:15.719
say that Latin America never saw a really big
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.800
boom of audio only shows. Like there was honestly
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.780
never a serial in Latin America or something
00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:26.920
similar. Like the bigger shows kind of always
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:30.460
had video with them. So it's like very natural
00:34:30.460 --> 00:34:36.170
to Latin Americans. YouTube is king. over everything,
00:34:36.449 --> 00:34:39.210
like people watch YouTube everywhere. And Spotify
00:34:39.210 --> 00:34:42.349
Now, which people, I mean in Latin America, most
00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:44.829
people have Android phones. So Apple Podcast
00:34:44.829 --> 00:34:47.030
doesn't exist. I know Apple Podcast will have
00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:51.869
video soon, but people watch video even on, I
00:34:51.869 --> 00:34:53.949
mean, I think more people watch video on Spotify
00:34:53.949 --> 00:34:56.429
in Latin America than in the US, at least like
00:34:56.429 --> 00:35:00.309
in percentage. So yeah, I think it's necessary.
00:35:00.429 --> 00:35:03.789
It's a requirement nowadays, especially for a
00:35:03.789 --> 00:35:06.800
conversational podcast. And what do you see then
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.460
from the advertising side? From the advertising
00:35:09.460 --> 00:35:12.119
side, we're also seeing more interesting video.
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:14.420
I think at the end of the day, you do want to
00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:18.599
leverage what you do on YouTube as well. So some
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:22.659
of these podcasts are huge on YouTube. And I
00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:24.880
think having what's known in the industry as
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.820
baked in ads works very well. And you combine
00:35:27.820 --> 00:35:29.480
two different platforms, you're reaching two
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.099
different audiences and it's working very well.
00:35:32.179 --> 00:35:37.280
And also we're seeing that Spotify is not allowing
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:41.280
anymore for like dynamic ad insertion for premium
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.760
users in a lot of countries and like this a trend
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:47.039
they're going to keep doing. So if you have a
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:49.940
premium subscription in Spotify, you will listen
00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:53.539
to less and less ads on the platform and they're
00:35:53.539 --> 00:35:56.739
paying you like for a minute consumed on video,
00:35:56.739 --> 00:35:59.820
right? So that's really going to limit the ability
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:04.019
to to insert dynamic ads for network for agencies
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:08.139
like us and big teams become more of an important
00:36:08.139 --> 00:36:11.940
tool. That's an interesting piece. So I'd say
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.920
for at least for your market, if I was, if I
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.460
was a advertiser listening to this right now,
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:20.260
or if I was another network trying to understand
00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:24.440
that piece sounds like that is a key market differentiation
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.500
for the struggles that your network kind of has
00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:29.599
to go through. Or you're seeing that would be
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.119
Regardless. Yes, I mean, we are trying to figure
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:38.159
out how to work through this because it has,
00:36:38.300 --> 00:36:40.519
I mean, I think the near future looks like a
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:44.320
very big squeeze for agencies internationally
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.900
since Spotify is so powerful, right? Because
00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:52.099
this doesn't affect that much the US side of
00:36:52.099 --> 00:36:54.420
the business because people are like, hey, I
00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:58.820
have Apple podcasts, right? But we don't. So
00:36:58.820 --> 00:37:02.440
I think our big push is for baked in ads. I think
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:05.699
we also have to see how to create own and operate
00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:09.260
it. Cause like a lot of platforms, they want
00:37:09.260 --> 00:37:14.119
to skip networks like us. Um, so it's interesting
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.699
times, challenging, challenging times. Where
00:37:16.699 --> 00:37:18.800
do you, I guess to that point, where do you see
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.789
things going? If you were to Crystal ball this,
00:37:21.789 --> 00:37:23.489
you know, I hate the question, but the crystal
00:37:23.489 --> 00:37:26.690
ball, especially with video and, and Apple announcing
00:37:26.690 --> 00:37:29.349
their video, even though it's not big for, for
00:37:29.349 --> 00:37:31.489
your market. What's your crystal ball in the
00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:33.929
next few years within podcasts, but specifically
00:37:33.929 --> 00:37:36.610
since the shows about podcast networks, the podcast
00:37:36.610 --> 00:37:40.170
network realm. I think Spotify is in a very tricky
00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:44.210
position. The idea of not having ads on Spotify
00:37:44.210 --> 00:37:48.750
podcasts with video makes sense, but I don't
00:37:48.750 --> 00:37:51.420
think it's sustainable. if the podcasts are not
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:54.679
going to make the same amount of money they made
00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:58.659
with ads, right? So I think that's a big question
00:37:58.659 --> 00:38:02.719
and I don't think they're going to be able to
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.840
make it work, to be honest, because YouTube is
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:08.739
moving in the other direction. YouTube announced
00:38:08.739 --> 00:38:12.900
they're adding dynamic ads to YouTube channels,
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.820
which is basically what you already had on Spotify
00:38:15.820 --> 00:38:18.519
and you will have on Apple podcasts. you will
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:21.340
always have on Apple Podcasts. So I think the
00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:23.619
near future is going to be very complicated because
00:38:23.619 --> 00:38:28.300
of this rollout of premium video. But I think
00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:32.440
like in the long term, Spotify is going to recalibrate.
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:35.340
I think they will realize that advertising in
00:38:35.340 --> 00:38:39.440
podcasts doesn't really depend on them. It depends
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:44.239
on the podcaster and podcasts are free to listen
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:47.239
to and People should realize that you don't need
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:49.340
a premium subscription to anything. They're free
00:38:49.340 --> 00:38:53.400
to listen to. And that's really all the podcasters,
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:56.500
most of them live through ads. Like Patreon is
00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:59.239
great, but also in Latin America, nobody really
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.460
pays for Patreon. Like people are not used to
00:39:01.460 --> 00:39:04.039
paying for stuff that they already consider free.
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:08.500
So listening to the ad and even buying the thing
00:39:08.500 --> 00:39:11.460
the host is advertising is the best way to help
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:15.260
them and support them. There's your sound bite
00:39:15.260 --> 00:39:17.539
right there, David. I mean, the fact that the
00:39:17.539 --> 00:39:19.659
majority of probably people that are listening
00:39:19.659 --> 00:39:21.739
to this are going to be in the States, like self
00:39:21.739 --> 00:39:24.659
included and not knowing what you're seeing,
00:39:24.699 --> 00:39:27.900
the vision you've got from the market experience
00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:30.420
you've got is crucial to understand not only
00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:32.619
Apple and Spotify and YouTube, but the market.
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:36.000
But the fact that you said craters, why am I
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.719
going to come on there and create content if
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.750
there's no way for me to make money? It's a hobby
00:39:40.750 --> 00:39:42.510
then, and why am I going to go ahead and just
00:39:42.510 --> 00:39:47.170
do the hobby if I can't be a media company? Right.
00:39:47.710 --> 00:39:51.150
And another question, why would I upload video
00:39:51.150 --> 00:39:55.329
to Spotify if they're not paying me the money
00:39:55.329 --> 00:39:59.309
I should be getting, right? So I will only upload
00:39:59.309 --> 00:40:02.070
audio on Spotify and I will send the video to
00:40:02.070 --> 00:40:06.510
YouTube where I am getting paid. For us, that's
00:40:06.510 --> 00:40:11.139
the biggest question. in the upcoming months,
00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:15.300
maybe years. So then would you shift more of
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:18.300
your focus than just instead of just let him
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:20.900
and go, all right, how do I get the Hispanic
00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:24.119
and Spanish speaking audience in the US? Because
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:26.760
I know that is a larger market. That's a different
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:29.880
beast in itself. And therefore there's actually
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:32.420
from your business standpoint, more income that
00:40:32.420 --> 00:40:35.760
you can be making as it's clearly sounds like
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.639
the business decisions that are out of your hand.
00:40:38.730 --> 00:40:43.349
Right. I mean, we always wanted to work with
00:40:43.349 --> 00:40:46.030
Latinos in the U .S. It's a market we really
00:40:46.030 --> 00:40:49.690
understand. I live in the U .S. So part of the
00:40:49.690 --> 00:40:53.289
company is really focused on this. But we also
00:40:53.289 --> 00:40:58.409
really want Latin America to grow, right? And
00:40:58.409 --> 00:41:00.670
Mexico is a big market. So you could say that
00:41:00.670 --> 00:41:06.409
Mexico is a few years behind the U .S. other
00:41:06.409 --> 00:41:10.090
countries and they're like years behind Mexico.
00:41:10.210 --> 00:41:12.590
So I think like part of what we really want to
00:41:12.590 --> 00:41:17.429
do is spotlight Latin America spotlight. There's
00:41:17.429 --> 00:41:20.929
a huge opportunity for advertisers to reach these
00:41:20.929 --> 00:41:24.150
demographics in a super cheap way where they
00:41:24.150 --> 00:41:26.710
basically have no competition. Like if you, if
00:41:26.710 --> 00:41:29.949
you would be in Mexico, you would listen to very
00:41:29.949 --> 00:41:33.030
few ads or very, or, or none, right? If you're
00:41:33.030 --> 00:41:36.199
in another country in Latin America, never. So
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:38.519
if you're a brand and you put your name out there,
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:40.840
people are going to be like, what's going on?
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:43.739
What's happening? And they will be interested.
00:41:44.420 --> 00:41:47.579
And we've tried it and it works. So I think there's
00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:51.119
an amazing opportunity still to develop. So it's
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.800
not only there's not a lot of ads based on what
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:59.139
you described, but our consumers are, as we know,
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.579
they're influencers. So our consumers that listen
00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:06.250
to podcast ads in the Latam market converting
00:42:06.250 --> 00:42:08.769
and and you're able to go back to the advertiser
00:42:08.769 --> 00:42:11.269
look there's like no ads in here so you'll own
00:42:11.269 --> 00:42:13.690
the you own this good content you'll have the
00:42:13.690 --> 00:42:16.630
parasocial connection with the host in his audience
00:42:16.630 --> 00:42:20.230
and these users will actually buy your product
00:42:20.230 --> 00:42:23.789
or it's just not a okay we were there we spent
00:42:23.789 --> 00:42:27.190
this money but where's the ROI and no I mean
00:42:27.190 --> 00:42:32.050
for us we always always always use the I guess
00:42:32.050 --> 00:42:34.349
like the classic tools you listen to in the US
00:42:34.750 --> 00:42:37.829
We always use Podscribe, we always use any analytics
00:42:37.829 --> 00:42:40.869
the brand needs, and we try to measure everything,
00:42:40.869 --> 00:42:45.329
right? So we never do a campaign without attribution
00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:48.570
metrics, which is like a practice very common
00:42:48.570 --> 00:42:50.909
in Latin America where it was just like the classic,
00:42:51.570 --> 00:42:54.590
send me a screenshot of how many downloads the
00:42:54.590 --> 00:42:57.650
podcast had. And it's like, no, you're not going
00:42:57.650 --> 00:42:59.590
to come back with that information, right? And
00:42:59.590 --> 00:43:02.570
we want you to come back. So we've done campaigns.
00:43:03.070 --> 00:43:06.829
like for very cheap or even free, like a few
00:43:06.829 --> 00:43:09.369
years ago, because we wanted brands to try it
00:43:09.369 --> 00:43:13.969
out. And it really works because you can get
00:43:13.969 --> 00:43:20.010
into amazing podcasts for one eighth of the cost
00:43:20.010 --> 00:43:23.809
in the U .S. Like imagine, I mean, yeah, a podcast
00:43:23.809 --> 00:43:25.949
you really respect that you were like, you cannot
00:43:25.949 --> 00:43:27.690
imagine how much it costs in the U .S. to get
00:43:27.690 --> 00:43:30.690
an ad from them, like HostRed. In Latin America,
00:43:30.690 --> 00:43:34.579
it's like the same perception of that person,
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:40.699
but it's way cheaper, you know? So it's an amazing
00:43:40.699 --> 00:43:42.960
opportunity and it converts incredibly well.
00:43:43.139 --> 00:43:45.179
There you go. If anyone is listening to this
00:43:45.179 --> 00:43:47.159
that's on the advertising side that wants to
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:50.739
get into, let's him market. I mean, not only
00:43:50.739 --> 00:43:54.219
does your agency set up for it, but there's a
00:43:54.219 --> 00:43:56.880
green grass ahead to do it, which I think is
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.659
also exciting for podcasting as a whole. I mean,
00:43:59.739 --> 00:44:02.039
My background's in media sales, so I understand
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:04.099
that. And we keep pushing about the $2 billion
00:44:04.099 --> 00:44:07.179
into podcasting. How do we make it a $5 billion?
00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:09.539
But it sounds like what you're doing, there's
00:44:09.539 --> 00:44:14.059
an entire green pasture ahead in the Latin market
00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:17.679
that you're a little behind to know where the
00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:20.079
maturation of the US, but that's probably why
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:23.139
you're so passionate about it and excited. If
00:44:23.139 --> 00:44:25.179
I could just keep doing this, it's the same.
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.420
same motion as a podcaster, stay consistent,
00:44:28.519 --> 00:44:31.659
just keep grinding away and we'll get there and
00:44:31.659 --> 00:44:33.780
we'll all just end up making more money in the
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:40.179
market. Yes, 100%. And as I said before, right,
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.920
because we've had the opportunity to see how
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:48.179
the market has developed in the US and we've
00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:50.960
taken the best practices and the best things
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.340
we've learned back to Mexico and to Latin America.
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:56.699
So we've learned from a lot of the mistakes that
00:44:56.699 --> 00:45:00.260
have been done in the industry without having
00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:03.260
to make the mistakes ourselves, which is great.
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:14.340
And I think brands can have the trust from an
00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:18.500
agency and work in Latin America at the same
00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:22.300
time, which is, I think, the value we add. So
00:45:22.300 --> 00:45:24.519
one question that I always like to ask, you know,
00:45:24.579 --> 00:45:28.280
it's a little off topic. What would be one podcast?
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:30.800
It can't be your own, but it could be in your
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.019
network that other people you really wish were
00:45:34.019 --> 00:45:38.079
listening to more of. And so we have this Colombian
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:40.639
podcast. The name is a bit hard. It's called
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.119
Relatos Nieros. And it's an exception to the
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.199
rule I was saying, because it's a narrative style
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:50.539
podcast and just has like an amazing production,
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:55.780
super immersive. It touches on very real Colombian
00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:59.440
stories. It's in Spanish and it's one of those
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.079
podcasts where I'm like, wow, like I'm, I'm very
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:05.400
pleased that we represent this show because they,
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:08.219
they do the hard work. There you go. The other
00:46:08.219 --> 00:46:12.559
off ball question is what's one book that you
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:14.940
recommend to people that's been either instrumental
00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:17.880
in your life or helps you from a business, whatever
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:20.079
it could be. It could be Business, personal,
00:46:20.260 --> 00:46:22.880
just one book that you would recommend to people.
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:28.579
That's a good question. I mean, I think fiction,
00:46:28.579 --> 00:46:33.179
I love this book called The Palace of Dreams.
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:39.519
It's an Albanian author. Really recommend it.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.599
It's, I think, one of the best books I've ever
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:47.079
read. Yeah, I think that one's like very instrumental.
00:46:48.099 --> 00:46:52.139
I also liked recently, I read anti -fragile.
00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:55.019
It's a nonfiction book and basically the concept
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:59.079
is, it's very powerful. So I also recommend that
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:00.659
one. Maybe you don't have to read the whole book.
00:47:00.860 --> 00:47:04.639
You, you can catch the drift at the middle of
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:06.599
the book, but yeah, that one's good. Thanks.
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:08.719
We'll have those in the show notes, but I love
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.639
those because podcast discovery is tough. So
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:14.119
getting to talk to a podcast network and a podcaster
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:16.579
as well is like great. Here's a platform for
00:47:16.579 --> 00:47:18.980
discovery. I like the book one because everyone
00:47:18.980 --> 00:47:21.219
always complains like there's too many podcasts.
00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:22.920
Well, we never complained that there's too many
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.199
books and books just like podcasts. They touch
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.300
our lives in very unique ways. So thanks for
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:30.480
sharing those. Well, I guess as we look at closing
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:33.039
this out, you know, is there anything else that
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:34.699
you would want to add that we haven't that I
00:47:34.699 --> 00:47:36.760
haven't asked you that you would want to share
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:39.000
with an audience? I mean, think about we got
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:42.019
podcasters, heads of networks, advertisers, just
00:47:42.019 --> 00:47:44.469
those in the industry that I'm either want to
00:47:44.469 --> 00:47:46.849
know about you, your market or your, your network
00:47:46.849 --> 00:47:51.269
as a whole. Yes. So I mean, if you're interested
00:47:51.269 --> 00:47:56.030
in that Latin American space or us Latinos, please
00:47:56.030 --> 00:48:00.409
reach out. I honestly love to talk to podcasts,
00:48:00.510 --> 00:48:03.010
to network, to whomever and, and try to guide
00:48:03.010 --> 00:48:07.190
them. We are really in the effort of growing
00:48:07.190 --> 00:48:10.369
the industry as a whole. So everything we can
00:48:10.369 --> 00:48:14.260
do to help, even if it means like. no revenue,
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:17.539
or if you're a very small podcast, let us talk,
00:48:17.739 --> 00:48:21.199
right? Let us be in the same network, not in
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.519
the podcast network necessarily, but let's stay
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.579
in contact because opportunities arise. And yeah,
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:30.360
super excited where this is going. I mean, I
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:32.619
guess that goes to my belief that life is about
00:48:32.619 --> 00:48:34.519
time and relationships. So you have no clue where
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:36.820
that conversation goes. You're like, hey, let's
00:48:36.820 --> 00:48:38.929
talk. Whether I can help you today or I help
00:48:38.929 --> 00:48:41.210
you in the future, at least we can be in each
00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:44.690
other's realms for where you're taking your network
00:48:44.690 --> 00:48:48.230
or where they're taking their podcast. I completely
00:48:48.230 --> 00:48:50.929
agree. I mean, sometimes I speak to a show that's
00:48:50.929 --> 00:48:53.110
like super niche, just like randomly, they tell
00:48:53.110 --> 00:48:55.630
me like what they're going through. And two days
00:48:55.630 --> 00:48:57.289
later, I speak to a brand and they're like, I
00:48:57.289 --> 00:48:59.090
want to get to this niche. I'm like, oh my God,
00:48:59.150 --> 00:49:02.269
I spoke to this person like two days ago. So
00:49:02.269 --> 00:49:04.070
yeah, I completely agree with what you said,
00:49:04.090 --> 00:49:06.659
Greg. I mean, that's just a... For anyone that's
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:08.460
listening, like that's a key piece. That's why
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:11.199
I say I'll talk to anyone. You have no clue where
00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:13.039
conversation, even if you've got the blinders
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:16.599
on, no clue where your next conversation may
00:49:16.599 --> 00:49:19.659
lead you. Sometimes sometimes take those blinders
00:49:19.659 --> 00:49:22.880
off. Well, David, it's been a pleasure. I really
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:26.340
appreciate you coming on as we got to know each
00:49:26.340 --> 00:49:29.579
other a couple of years ago through podcast events.
00:49:29.980 --> 00:49:32.300
It's also what I love about going to different
00:49:32.300 --> 00:49:34.900
kinds of events. You get the opportunity to meet
00:49:34.900 --> 00:49:37.000
people who are completely different countries
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:39.699
that are doing and operating in the same realm.
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:41.940
And we get to learn a little bit more about what
00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:44.380
you've built and where it's going. So thanks
00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:48.539
a lot. On the country. Thank you. Well, you've
00:49:48.539 --> 00:49:51.159
made it this far. So allow me to give you my
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.639
two cents in my conversation with David. As I
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:56.119
said at the beginning, building a network in
00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:58.960
another market is hard. It's unique. It creates
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:03.139
its own challenges and rewards. First, Latin
00:50:03.139 --> 00:50:05.599
America does not operate like the U .S. podcast
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.860
market. David kept stressing a podcast network
00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:12.260
there often functions more like an agency. Apple
00:50:12.260 --> 00:50:15.480
podcasts barely matter in many cases. Spotify
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:18.280
is the dominant player and advertisers behavior
00:50:18.280 --> 00:50:22.619
is still much less mature than the U .S. Second,
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.500
Genina is not trying to be everything for every
00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:29.389
podcaster. David is very direct in that the focus
00:50:29.389 --> 00:50:32.090
is sales monetization, not pretending they're
00:50:32.090 --> 00:50:34.670
a full -growth engine. The value they offer is
00:50:34.670 --> 00:50:37.489
bringing campaigns, cross promos where possible,
00:50:37.710 --> 00:50:40.489
and keeping deals flexible rather than locking
00:50:40.489 --> 00:50:43.989
creators into exclusivity. And third, baked -in
00:50:43.989 --> 00:50:47.150
ads are becoming more important, especially because
00:50:47.150 --> 00:50:50.909
Spotify's premium video changes can squeeze dynamic
00:50:50.909 --> 00:50:53.949
ad insertion, and it shapes how they think about
00:50:53.949 --> 00:50:57.059
monetization going forward. So when you think
00:50:57.059 --> 00:50:59.219
about that, and you think about the conversation
00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:02.059
I had with David, hopefully these are some of
00:51:02.059 --> 00:51:04.179
the things that you walked away with like myself.
00:51:05.099 --> 00:51:07.739
Once again, thank you for tuning in. I truly
00:51:07.739 --> 00:51:10.639
appreciate it. The show is produced by the amazing
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:13.480
team at Stories and Strategies. Don't know them?
00:51:13.739 --> 00:51:17.119
Reach out. I'm using RSS .com for my podcast
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:20.280
hosting, because podcast hosting is more than
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.679
just storage. RSS .com provides so many features
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:27.219
to ensure a great podcast experience. Northflow
00:51:27.219 --> 00:51:29.920
is my dedicated podcast management platform,
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.400
and Cast Magic is a tool I use for content repurposing.
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:36.699
As I say, life is about time and relationships.
00:51:36.940 --> 00:51:39.179
You have no clue where one conversation is gonna
00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:41.800
take you. This is why these conversations I'm
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:44.500
able to bring to you. This is why I network for
00:51:44.500 --> 00:51:46.980
a living. While you're able to tune into these
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:49.780
conversations, you have no clue where these conversations
00:51:49.780 --> 00:51:53.500
are gonna take you. So please, I live on LinkedIn.
00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:56.699
Reach out. I have a newsletter as we talked about
00:51:56.699 --> 00:51:58.860
during this show. This discovery for podcasts
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:02.239
is incredibly difficult. Tune in every Thursday
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:05.019
and until next time, keep listening. Thanks a
00:52:05.019 --> 00:52:05.199
lot.