[Rewind] Honest Exemplars (feat. Pastor Chris Bennett)

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1 Corinthians 4, 16 and 17. The Apostle Paul says,
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I urge you then, be imitators of me. That is
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why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child
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in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in
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Christ as I teach them everywhere in every church.
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Empowering leaders of all size, congregations and groups down to
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the individual who might feel disconnected, isolated, and simply not okay.
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Two licensed professional counselors, Paul Hambert and Paul Berkus, are
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helping to enlighten and inspire.
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This is No Sheep Left Behind.
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It's a beautiful day for another great episode. And why
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not have a guest in the studio? He is the
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pastor of Renewal Church here in Memphis and just a
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really all around good guy. I'm just going to throw
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that out there.
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I mean, I can vouch for that. Yeah.
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In like five minutes, we've really sat down and had
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a little talk here.
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Chris Bennett is joining us today.
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And I'm excited about this because every time there's a
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new guest come in, there's a new perspective, obviously. And yet. Here,
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we're going to come off the coattails of a really
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good episode where we were talking about a little bit
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of a little expectation not being met and things like that.
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It's it's kind of fun. We can tie that in
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for sure.
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I think so.
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Well, I want to start just by saying a couple
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of years ago when I first heard Chris speak. The
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first thing that came to my mind is, wow, he
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is really being honest with his congregation. It was something
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that I was sitting there and felt so safe just
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being there. And I was like, wow, what's going on?
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Because I don't know. There was something about it. And
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showed up again saying, you're very consistent in this manner.
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And then one day you explained it a little bit.
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You talked a little bit about it. transparency and vulnerability.
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And so I'm excited to dive in.
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That's scary. I mean, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'll just
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go ahead and jump in the deep end.
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I mean, when you tell your when I tell my
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congregation that I'm in recovery from sexual addiction, there's a
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lot of fear that the women in my congregation will
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be creeped out by me.
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And I don't want to creep them out. You know,
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I want them to feel safe with me.
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And yet at the same time, I know that That
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this is endemic to our society now.
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Absolutely.
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And I feel a real responsibility to lead the way
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in helping our people be courageous in telling the truth
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about themselves. Because we know that telling the truth about
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yourself is huge when it comes to recovery. Deliverance, freedom.
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And so that's my goal. And I'll also say that
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at times I fear that people might think that I'm
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being narcissistic.
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I'm making it all about me. Yeah.
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And so I do qualify it a lot that this
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is I'm not putting my stuff out there because.
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You know, I'm, I'm self-focused.
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I just really love our people and I want them
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to walk in the light and by that, uh, walk
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in the freedom of Jesus. And as far as I understand,
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as I read scripture, you're like, we're in a, we're
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in a, um, uh, a first John right now, you know,
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Paul and, um, Paul Berkus.
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You can't go wrong. It's everybody, Paul. Paul Berkus.
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But I like those verses.
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But it's all about walking in the light, you know,
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and scripture tells us that we should confess our sins
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to one another. And I think a lot of times
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we think that, okay, I need to tell my, I
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need to tell on myself. But the way I see that,
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the way I understand that is.
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We should tell the truth about who we fully are.
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And living in that kind of communal light is really transformative.
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I've found that.
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In my life.
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I want to let people know, you know, about me,
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what I want them to know about me, you know.
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Because we don't want shame. We don't want to be shamed.
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Right. Because there has been shame in so many people's past.
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And the results of shame is ostracized. Yeah. Rejected.
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You're bad. It's so interesting.
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I'm looking at the opposite effects of each, right? So
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you were saying how you were reluctant or perhaps at
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least just thought about it, like some of the women
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in the congregation may be put off. However, I think
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the net effect is that when you're honest, people feel
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more safe. And then I was thinking about the same
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thing with so many other areas where we're reluctant to
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step in to a challenging area. And once we step in,
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it changes the whole dynamic.
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Yes.
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And hopefully the ladies, the women in the congregation are
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already safe enough to have a rigorous honesty to listen
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and try to understand what's happening with The men in
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the world.
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Yeah, I found that just based on some feedback that
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a lot of the women who I've interacted with really
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appreciate my honesty because they have hope that their husbands
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will also live in that kind of vulnerability with them.
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Because it's more common than it's not. I mean, let's
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just put that out there.
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Yeah.
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Oh, a thousand percent.
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I mean, I think people need exemplars when it comes
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to certain virtues. And not that I see myself as
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some saint, but I don't know many people who can
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say I have an exemplar of vulnerability in my life
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that I want to imitate and become like. And if
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you don't, if that's just a concept that's in a book.
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I think that it's harder to envision yourself actually living
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that out because nobody else does. But if you can
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see somebody else doing it, I think it can instill courage.
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It can elicit courage in somebody's life to be known
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and to tell.
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The truth about themselves. A rigorously honest exemplar.
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Yes. Yes. And the old saying about Christianity is one
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beggar telling another beggar where to get bread. I mean,
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as one who's worked through a compulsion or an addiction,
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it can help others who are struggling find that bread. Yes.
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Yes. There's a lot that I want to unpack here. Namely,
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your unsafety equaling others' safety. Like that kind of stuck
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out to me. I like that dichotomy.
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Yeah.
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What is that all about? And more importantly, what.
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really happens in somebody who, when you become that vulnerable,
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they become unfulnerable.
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It seems very counterintuitive here, gentlemen.
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And that's why I love this show. This is No
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Sheep Left Behind. I mentioned it a couple times, but,
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you know, this guy knows what he's talking about when
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it comes to addiction and when it comes to healing
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from emotional, spiritual, and physical pain and suffering.
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Talking about Paul.
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Hamrick, he facilitates healing from all of those things. He
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constantly involves the body and nervous system regulation at the
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core of the healing process. He specializes in mindfulness, EMDR,
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and somatic experiencing. Paul Hambrick, he's a licensed professional counselor
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who integrates the Christian faith with sound professional counseling.
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Goes hand in hand if you haven't picked up on
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that yet.
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Visit paulhambrickcounseling.com or call 901-335-1479. paulhambrickcounseling.com the anxiety depression and
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stress from trauma it doesn't have to worsen or cause
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you more pain paul hambrick and his guidance can help
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reduce or eliminate it paulhambrickcounseling.com or call 901-335-1479 this is
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no sheep left behind.
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This is No Sheep Left Behind.
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I am Brody Scott with our amazing licensed professional counselors,
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Paul Berkus, Paul Hambrick, and a guest today. He's the
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pastor of Renewal Church in Memphis, Chris Bennett. Making yourself
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that vulnerable to people, seemingly we've said it made yourself
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a little unsafe or feeling unsafe, I guess. Making other
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people feel safe, that seems very counterintuitive, gentlemen. I'm just
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going to put it out there.
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Yeah.
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Speaking of counterintuitive, Using shame to motivate people.
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Right, is the opposite of the spectrum, right? It's like
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it does not do what you think it's going to do.
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No, it doesn't.
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I think Paul Hambrick put it, shame will only get
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you so.
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Far as a result right now.
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It is. It's the stick and the carrot and the
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stick motivation. But you can only use the stick so much.
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And then at some point the, quote, mule will just
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sit down and not do anything.
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And there's no relational exemplar.
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Yes.
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There's nobody showing.
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What it's like to actually have honest relationships to be
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in the.
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Yoke together yes so this vulnerability that you presented to
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your congregation I got to know from other guys in
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the congregation.
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We heard a little bit about the female population in
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your congregation seemingly going, hey, you know what?
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At least there's somebody here that is honest, right? What
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did the guys come back and say?
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Yeah, as I think back, in my mind, it seems
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to me that the feedback that I've gotten most has
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been from women in the congregation. how much they value
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that kind of vulnerability. So many men, I don't mean
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to be stereotypical, but so many men struggle with sexual
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addiction and they're just not ready to be known and
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disclose what they're dealing with. They're in a place in
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which they're hiding because they're users. And so when you
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use you're constantly in a state of lying and deception.
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And you've got to be, as you guys know, you've
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got to be ready to disclose if you're going to
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take that first step in recovery. And so I think
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it sort of thins out the herd, if you will.
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There's a lot of silence. But I mean, I'm fortunate
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that I'm also a member of my church. And so
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I have really good friends in the church. And And
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I've been really encouraged by these guys.
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And it's fostered.
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And the guys who want to live in that kind
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of vulnerability and light and life, you know, that's what
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the scriptures call it. Living in the light is life.
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And I'm tasting that life. And I want these guys
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and ladies to taste that life. It's really deepened our
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communion together. Like we go deep. We go really deep. Wow.
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Speaking of first steps, I'm just curious, when.
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When was it that you first decided, I'm going to
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take this first step and be vulnerable?
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You know, there's something, I don't know what it is,
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where this came from, but I've been pastoring our church
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since 2007. And from the beginning, I just intuitively knew
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that that people needed, and I wouldn't have said it
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this way back then, an exemplar to show them how
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to be, and I would have said transparent back then. And, um,
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I think maybe because I've grown up in the church
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and I've seen so much duplicitous behavior and, and, uh, um,
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so much just fakeness and it just, I wanted something real,
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something authentic. And, um, So, yeah, I began to just
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sort of tell on myself to show people.
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But I held back a lot. I held back a lot.
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You're not stupid.
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Yeah.
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I was I was 33 when I took this church
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over and I was I was such a mess.
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Oh, my God. And I was terrified of being really known. Yeah.
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But I think it really came to a head in.
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In 2015, that's when my recovery really began in earnest. Now,
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I'd had a conversation with my wife 10 years before that,
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12 years before that, in which I confessed to her
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that sometimes I struggle with, you know, pornography and masturbation.
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And and she's been so kind and so gracious and
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forgiving me. And she's forgiven me many times since.
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But it was.
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I was just living in this shame cycle. And I
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knew that I needed to break out of this. And
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so I was involved in a pastor's cohort. I was
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with five other pastors. We were on a retreat together
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in 2015. And it was an incredible retreat. And we
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were staying in this giant Airbnb in Franklin, Tennessee. And
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every single room had a giant TV, and we all
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had our own rooms. And I knew as soon as
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I walked in this.
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House, uh-oh.
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Here we go. And wouldn't you know it. And at
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that time, I'm living in a state of constant anxiety.
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The church was in deep debt. We had lost a
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lot of people. And my identity was really contingent upon
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the health of the church.
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I couldn't tell where the church ended, and I began crying.
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And if you will.
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And and so I just had this constant low grade
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anxiety all the time that I was managing and I
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was managing with with sex. And so I found myself
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at night staying up till 2 a.m. watching porn. And
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the next morning, one of the guys made this incredible breakfast.
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I was I was so embarrassed to even come downstairs.
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And eventually I came down. We did all the activities
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in the retreat and I got home and I just
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remember feeling so much shame and so broken that I
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knew I needed to do something to, again, get out
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of the shame cycle. And so I wrote a long
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email to all the guys in my group in which
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I explicitly confessed my sin. I didn't just say I
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struggle with lust sometimes. It wasn't generic. It was very explicit.
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I needed everything in me that was dark to be
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in the light.
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I needed it.
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I hungered for it. And I can only give thanks
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to God for that. I don't know how to get there.
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That's God's grace. So I did that. And the response
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I got from those men was incredible.
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My soul was washed by them.
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And they would say, and we're still very close to that,
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they would say that that was the seed that was
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planted that has led to our group being so vulnerable.
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With each other.
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And then I really felt the Lord telling me to
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take another step. And so what I did was, is
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I took that email and I met with about eight
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or 10 other men at the church that I pastored.
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And I met with them face to face. Now you're
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not doing it by the keyboard.
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You're looking for a new job here.
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You're exactly right. But I did it with guys that
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I trust. Not guys that I control. That's not what
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I mean by that. Guys that I trusted. Guys that
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I knew I could trust with my soul. I don't
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think you just expose your brokenness to anybody.
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Amen to that.
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So these are men that I trusted. I knew I
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could trust or I thought I could trust.
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Okay.
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There it is. And I sat down with each of them.
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And I had the email printed out. No, I had
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it on my phone. Sorry, I had it on my phone.
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And I let them read my phone. And they just
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sat there and several of the guys wept with me.
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Wow.
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And to this day, these men are some of my
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dearest brothers and friends. And I'm so thankful. Just I'm
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sure people may be wondering, you know, where are you
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now with this? Like I'm living in sobriety. I'm so
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grateful for that. I recently got a tattoo in my arm.
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I don't know if you guys can see it, but
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it's the Christian myth of St.
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George and the dragon. Oh, yeah. And St. George actually existed.
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I think he was martyred under Emperor Diocletian in, I
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want to say, 300 or 303 or something like that.
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But a few hundred years later, give or take a
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century or two, this book was written.
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And St.
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George is this hero who came to this town being
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terrorized by a dragon.
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And he saved the town.
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And so there's this tattoo shop in Jerusalem that's, I
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think they're like six or 700 years old. It's called
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Razuk Tattoos. And I wanted to get this tattoo because
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it's of.
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St.
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George slaying the dragon.
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Yeah.
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And we had planned to go in 2000 with our church.
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And I was going to get this tattoo then. I
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wanted an Ebenezer, a memorial on my body that my
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body belongs to God, every part of my body. And
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I wanted to demonstrate freedom that just in the power
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of Jesus and the love of Jesus in my life
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and how he set me free. And so in 2000,
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of course, COVID happened. So we canceled that trip. We
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had the trip rescheduled in 2003. We had to cancel
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that because of the war in Gaza. And I mean,
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23 or 2023.
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Yeah. And so a little thing happened in 2020. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I'm trying to forget that every day. And and
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and so I thought, well, shucks, I guess I'm never
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going to get over there. And then about eight weeks ago,
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six or eight weeks ago, a friend of mine text
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me and she said, hey. Wasim Razouk is in Nashville
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right now. And I was like, no way. And so
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and so I went online. He was on a special
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tour in the United States for like like three cities.
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Yeah.
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For a weekend each. And I had his two sons
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with him. And and so I went to this. So
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I looked online. He had one slot remaining.
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Wow. I immediately grabbed it. Book it. Two days later,
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I drove to Nashville. My son lives there. He's a drummer.
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And so I took him to dinner with his girlfriend.
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And then I went and I got my tattoo.
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Yeah.
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And then he did me another favor and he just,
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he wrote my wife's name, Rebecca, on my arm in Hebrew.
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And so I'm not, you know, some people think like, Chris,
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you're having a midlife crisis. You're 52, you know, and
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are you going to buy a convertible next? You know,
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I'm like, no, this isn't midlife crisis. This is my
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memorial stone.
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This is my Ebenezer. This is my freedom. Well, you
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slayed the dragon.
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Yes.
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I mean, that's, that's a big deal. Now I got
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to ask the addiction guy in the room. Uh, what
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we just heard. from Pastor Chris over there. Was that
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his rock bottom? Was that his signal to say something's
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got to give?
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I think that 2015 retreat was your rock bottom. That's
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what I heard. And you made a statement a while
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ago about when people are ready. Of all the alcoholics
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that are on this planet, a very, very small percentage
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go to AA or Celebrate Recovery.
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Mm-hmm.
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So people have to hit rock bottom and they have
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to be willing. And your desire for Jesus, I think,
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was greater than your fear of shame.
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I think you're right about that.
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Yeah.
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Because, I mean, I've pastored a lot of people who
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hit rock bottom and they kept going below that.
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There's another bottom. They've got several bottoms. Yeah. And.
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Again, it's only God's mercy, but I can only attribute
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it to God's mercy.
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I want the Jesus in my life. I want him.
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I wanted Jesus more than I wanted freedom. I just
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wanted Jesus. But I needed this. And so, yeah, I mean,
385
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doing those, taking those steps in which I brought everything
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that I was, the fullness of my story to my
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relationships was....
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For my healing and my recovery essential for it. Um,
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and that defines vulnerability. Yeah. Yeah.
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It was in that, that, that cohort, a pastor friend
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of mine shared a concept with me. Um, now I
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don't think this can be backed up by science. This
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is more of a pastoral, you know, axiom or something
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like that. But, um, um, He once made a comment that,
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as my friend Steve, he pastors in Illinois.
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He made a comment.
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He said, you know, there's a difference that he said,
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there's a difference I found between transparency and real vulnerability. Bro,
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I just wrote that down. And he said, he said,
400
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and now from his perspective as a pastor.
401
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Yeah.
402
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Because we see this so much in the pastoral world.
403
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A lot of pastors use transparency as sort of a shtick.
404
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because they know people want authenticity. A lot of pastors
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aren't dumb. They know they're students of culture. They're trying
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to reach people and build their churches. And so sometimes
407
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we intuitively understand what people are really looking for. A
408
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lot of pastors know that people want something authentic and
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not something fake. And so A lot of times, and
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I used to do this, so I don't say this
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with condemnation toward them. It's not right, but I understand
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how you can get there because it's really scary to
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be a pastor living under.
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A microscope all the time. We will disclose....
415
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Sections of our life right parts of our life but
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keep other parts usually the sickest parts hidden right and
417
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so that's why when a pastor who can be really
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transparent from the pulpit suddenly we find out that there's
419
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this double life he was living you're like wow how
420
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can that even be possible we're so disoriented because he
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was so vulnerable no he was transparent To a degree.
422
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Translucent almost. Yes. Vulnerability is a whole different ball of wax.
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It is, as I understand vulnerability, I'm not trying, I'm
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not using vulnerability as a way to exploit my people.
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I'm not using vulnerability to try to control them or
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manipulate them. I want what's God's best for them. I
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want their healing. And so my motive, That's a big
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motivation for me. A big incentive is not to hold
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back anything, but to show them how to be known.
430
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Right.
431
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So that I don't know that I don't know that
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in a textbook it would say that that's that's what
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vulnerability is and that's what transparency is. But that is
434
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so helpful for me to think about my own ministry
435
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that way.
436
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.980
Well, you know what they do in research. Oh, yeah,
437
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for sure.
438
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No, what they do in research is they define things anyway.
439
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.920
So what you've done is created some definitions that now
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we can do some research on.
441
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And there may be some research out there.
442
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:09.509
I have a client tell me this one time, and
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I'm suspecting that she's in recovery. And she said that
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being transparent is living in a glass house. Being vulnerable
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is giving someone a rock.
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That's really good. That's better than what I said. That's
447
00:24:23.930 --> 00:24:25.369
really good. That is really good.
448
00:24:25.470 --> 00:24:28.019
And I want to unpack more of this because there's
449
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a word that popped out in my head about this
450
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vulnerability thing and how that looks to others and how
451
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you can use it next.
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This is No Sheep Left Behind. We all want independence.
453
00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:47.400
To be accepted. To have a voice.
454
00:24:47.619 --> 00:24:49.460
And that can be hard for someone like me.
455
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:50.619
Like me.
456
00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:53.960
Someone with autism. Someone with social anxiety.
457
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:57.940
Someone that struggles with relating to others. We chose a
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00:24:58.099 --> 00:24:59.480
hope and a future.
459
00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:02.079
A place where we are heard and gain the tools
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00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:03.799
needed for a life worth living.
461
00:25:04.099 --> 00:25:06.859
If you or someone you love is like us, search
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00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:08.619
A Hope and a Future Memphis.
463
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:12.200
A Hope and a Future. Strengthening the wings of weary hearts.
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00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:20.269
This is no sheep left behind.
465
00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:31.259
This is No Sheep Left Behind.
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I'm Brody Scott with an amazing guest in the studio
467
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.859
today with Paul Berkus, Paul Hambrick, Chris Bennett. He's a
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00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.579
pastor over at Renewal Church in Memphis here. And we're
469
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talking about this difference, this dichotomy between vulnerability and transparency.
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I want to bring up a word. It's been brought
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up before on this show.
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Paul Berkus, he presented this word a long time ago
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in my life, modeling.
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00:25:58.170 --> 00:26:03.819
Okay. I was a little nervous. Wait a minute. Where
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is he going with this? But modeling, that's kind of
476
00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:08.759
what I hear when... The exemplar.
477
00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:14.000
Yeah, this exemplar effect, this, you know, people coming up
478
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to you and like, hey, you know, I heard what
479
00:26:16.769 --> 00:26:17.180
you said.
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I'm already there. You know, I'm not really there yet.
481
00:26:20.589 --> 00:26:22.869
But this modeling effect that's going on, there's got to
482
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be something to that.
483
00:26:24.490 --> 00:26:28.569
I could go in several directions right now. The one
484
00:26:28.609 --> 00:26:31.779
that I'm thinking of is my supervisor told me once
485
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.759
he said children learn by the carrot and the stick
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and by modeling.
487
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:39.920
They do not learn by aha moments. They don't learn
488
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from lectures.
489
00:26:41.869 --> 00:26:45.150
And the first thing that I thought of is we're
490
00:26:45.170 --> 00:26:47.829
talking about recovery. We're talking about an addiction, right?
491
00:26:47.849 --> 00:26:52.970
We're talking about... Or a compulsion. Or a compulsion. Yes. Yes,
492
00:26:53.009 --> 00:26:54.470
those are definitely related.
493
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And.
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We all know that there is arrested development in addiction.
495
00:27:00.130 --> 00:27:01.490
Absolutely.
496
00:27:01.509 --> 00:27:05.769
And not to go too far into the weeds, but
497
00:27:05.950 --> 00:27:08.750
if there is a part of us that has not matured,
498
00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:11.490
then we have to have a model.
499
00:27:13.650 --> 00:27:14.930
We can't have lectures.
500
00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:17.849
We can't be told, you know, do this, do that,
501
00:27:18.009 --> 00:27:23.339
because we don't know exactly how some of those those
502
00:27:23.380 --> 00:27:25.420
instructions are applied to our personal life.
503
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:28.240
We have to see it in real time.
504
00:27:28.819 --> 00:27:31.059
And that's what you're trying to do for your congregation
505
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:35.640
to model what it's like for a human being who
506
00:27:35.789 --> 00:27:40.869
wants Jesus as truly savior and Lord to deal with
507
00:27:40.910 --> 00:27:41.490
their stuff.
508
00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:43.829
Yeah.
509
00:27:43.869 --> 00:27:48.970
I'm reminded of a, um, of a book of a
510
00:27:49.009 --> 00:27:53.849
guy that I know wrote, his name is Jason hood. Um, PhD,
511
00:27:54.009 --> 00:27:57.349
really smart dude. He wrote a book called Imitating God
512
00:27:57.490 --> 00:28:03.930
in Christ. And in his introduction, he said that in
513
00:28:04.309 --> 00:28:07.490
seminaries and Sunday school classes and churches, he's asked the
514
00:28:07.549 --> 00:28:13.230
following question. And it's always been answered incorrectly. And the
515
00:28:13.269 --> 00:28:17.559
following question he asked was, what did the Apostle Paul
516
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:22.519
say that he said to every church he went to?
517
00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:28.319
what did the apostle Paul say that he said to
518
00:28:29.170 --> 00:28:31.460
every church he went to? And people would say, well,
519
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:33.890
we preach the gospel. And he's like, yeah, he preached it,
520
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:37.180
but he, but that's not what he said that he said.
521
00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:38.140
Right.
522
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:40.480
And I, and you'll forgive me.
523
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:41.630
I don't have my Bible right in front of me,
524
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.799
but I want to say it's first Corinthians, maybe four,
525
00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:46.380
I forget. But there's a, there's a little passage in
526
00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:51.549
which Paul says, everywhere I go, I tell.
527
00:28:51.390 --> 00:28:57.140
People to imitate me. Hmm. Now, can you imagine a
528
00:28:58.059 --> 00:28:59.279
preacher saying that today?
529
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:06.700
That would be considered arrogant, pompous, haughty. But Paul understood
530
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:08.880
something about spiritual transformation.
531
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:09.599
Yes.
532
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:13.329
That we need models and exemplars, people that can show
533
00:29:13.509 --> 00:29:17.430
us how to follow Jesus Christ, how to put on
534
00:29:17.450 --> 00:29:21.150
the virtues of Jesus in our lives, how to practice patience,
535
00:29:21.650 --> 00:29:24.190
how to practice mercy giving, how to practice love.
536
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.720
The Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount. We need exemplars
537
00:29:27.769 --> 00:29:28.089
in our lives.
538
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:31.869
And I would say that because so many people in
539
00:29:31.910 --> 00:29:39.650
the church don't practice that, that we are subtly training people,
540
00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:42.859
the concept. of many of our churches is training people
541
00:29:42.930 --> 00:29:46.599
to not believe that they can put on those kinds
542
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.359
of virtues because so few people that they see actually
543
00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:49.839
live that out.
544
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:52.359
Wow.
545
00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:53.579
That's heavy.
546
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:54.240
Yeah.
547
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:57.150
What comes to my mind, You know, we use the
548
00:29:57.190 --> 00:30:00.789
word growth mindset a lot, but I think about the
549
00:30:00.829 --> 00:30:06.059
grace of God empowering us to change. And I think
550
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:10.539
about when you're talking about modeling, you're not talking about
551
00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:17.660
modeling perfection. You're talking about modeling repairs and repentance and
552
00:30:17.859 --> 00:30:19.019
turning back to God.
553
00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:21.420
And what do you do when you make a mistake? Oh,
554
00:30:21.460 --> 00:30:21.960
this is good.
555
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:23.599
Yeah. Yeah.
556
00:30:23.859 --> 00:30:26.759
I don't know if there's a lot of that. going on.
557
00:30:27.099 --> 00:30:27.259
Nope.
558
00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:28.220
Nope.
559
00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:32.059
Because I think, Pastor, please correct me if I'm off here,
560
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:35.000
but imitate me as I imitate Christ.
561
00:30:35.299 --> 00:30:35.539
Right.
562
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:39.400
I think people go right to imitate Christ. So take
563
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:42.240
me off the hook here. I'm not really that great.
564
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:46.660
So only when I imitate Christ. And so it cancels
565
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.569
out the message that you're bringing to us today. Yeah.
566
00:30:49.890 --> 00:30:53.910
I think a lot of people wouldn't say that because
567
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.460
of the shame that they might feel. I can't live
568
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:04.069
up to Jesus. Why would I tell somebody to watch me?
569
00:31:04.089 --> 00:31:09.289
I mean, I'm stumbling and scraping my way forward, but
570
00:31:09.329 --> 00:31:13.799
that's the thing. I think people need to see authentic
571
00:31:13.900 --> 00:31:19.240
followers of Jesus scratching and clawing their way forward in Jesus.
572
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:24.440
watching them learn how to put on the virtues of Jesus.
573
00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:27.339
I think we go back to the, one of my
574
00:31:27.380 --> 00:31:30.599
favorite shows is the chosen, right? It shows everybody in
575
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.269
a very humanistic light, you know, and to see the,
576
00:31:34.569 --> 00:31:38.009
even the apostles like stumble and fall. And it's all
577
00:31:38.250 --> 00:31:39.869
been there in the Bible.
578
00:31:40.450 --> 00:31:40.670
Right.
579
00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:42.769
But to see it right. Yeah.
580
00:31:42.789 --> 00:31:45.009
Is a whole different thing. You know, it goes back to,
581
00:31:45.049 --> 00:31:46.670
you can preach it to me all day long, but
582
00:31:46.710 --> 00:31:51.069
when I see it, right. It feels different. It looks different.
583
00:31:51.089 --> 00:31:53.309
It does. It is different.
584
00:31:53.750 --> 00:31:57.930
So seeing you up there, you know, being honest, this
585
00:31:57.970 --> 00:32:04.640
vulnerability thing, what does that do to your expectations of people?
586
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.160
Like when you're honest, do you expect people then to
587
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:08.140
be honest with you?
588
00:32:10.940 --> 00:32:11.240
Yes.
589
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:12.500
Yes.
590
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.869
And I would be lying if at times....
591
00:32:18.470 --> 00:32:25.380
I said I wasn't impatient or frustrated. Gosh, this sounds
592
00:32:25.390 --> 00:32:26.839
so arrogant to say this, but I think you guys
593
00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:30.599
know my heart here. If you're good at something, quote unquote,
594
00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:33.200
or in this case, if you practice something a lot
595
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:41.319
until it becomes intuitive, just second nature, sometimes we forget
596
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:45.559
how hard it is for somebody else to start that process.
597
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:50.650
I can't shoot free throws. like Stephen Curry, I can't
598
00:32:50.710 --> 00:32:55.660
do it. But he's got millions probably of reps doing that.
599
00:32:56.119 --> 00:33:00.380
And besides the fact that he's really gifted. But I
600
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:03.779
can't compete with that. I've not practiced like he has.
601
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.700
And so, I don't know, if he played basketball with me,
602
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:11.130
he would probably be really frustrated. If I was on
603
00:33:11.170 --> 00:33:14.170
his team, you know, but I guess, but I know
604
00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:16.650
that I'm aware of that. I'm aware that if I
605
00:33:16.690 --> 00:33:21.779
find myself frustrated, like, okay, Chris, you know, usually either
606
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:23.900
I'm saying this to myself or my wife is, you know, like,
607
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:24.920
chill out.
608
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:26.160
It's going to be okay.
609
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.599
These people are human beings. They are loved and treasured
610
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.599
by God. They have been saved by Jesus. Just be
611
00:33:35.619 --> 00:33:38.059
patient in the same way that the father is patient
612
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.440
with you. And so I'm having to always remind myself
613
00:33:40.539 --> 00:33:41.599
of that, you know? Yeah.
614
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.329
Even when I'm frustrated with myself, you know?
615
00:33:45.809 --> 00:33:49.869
Man, who hasn't felt frustrated when you've put in all
616
00:33:49.930 --> 00:33:53.109
this work and then just feel like, come on.
617
00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:57.589
I don't have anybody that I see doing it.
618
00:33:57.869 --> 00:33:58.089
Right.
619
00:33:58.190 --> 00:34:00.490
I can't win and there's nobody winning either.
620
00:34:01.609 --> 00:34:01.809
Yeah.
621
00:34:02.430 --> 00:34:06.180
Yeah. But if we were taught... Yes. That part of
622
00:34:06.259 --> 00:34:08.639
winning is continuing the process.
623
00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:11.519
And it's OK to be an exemplar.
624
00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:14.619
I can't pronounce the word very well, but you try. Yeah.
625
00:34:15.889 --> 00:34:16.110
Man.
626
00:34:17.989 --> 00:34:21.170
I kind of see like this two step approach to
627
00:34:21.210 --> 00:34:24.389
that we've taken today, which is it's not just about
628
00:34:24.650 --> 00:34:29.190
the cessation of shame, but it's also the exemplar.
629
00:34:29.929 --> 00:34:30.130
Right.
630
00:34:30.170 --> 00:34:33.130
It's it's not just removing that shame as a motivator.
631
00:34:34.150 --> 00:34:38.190
but it's also this next step, right? Because if you
632
00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:42.039
just remove shame, you still have like another step that
633
00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:45.519
needs to be presented to someone before they know what
634
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:45.880
to do.
635
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:53.179
Yeah, shame doesn't, it's not a relational glue. It constantly, relentlessly,
636
00:34:53.260 --> 00:34:59.510
subversively undermines a relationship. I'm trying, I feel shame. I
637
00:34:59.530 --> 00:35:02.130
don't want you to know me that way. So I
638
00:35:02.150 --> 00:35:04.449
will hide to protect my brokenness.
639
00:35:04.550 --> 00:35:09.210
I'll be transparent with you enough to get this job done.
640
00:35:10.050 --> 00:35:11.809
And our secrets make us sick.
641
00:35:13.670 --> 00:35:13.989
Yes.
642
00:35:14.050 --> 00:35:15.949
Yes. Our secrets make us sick.
643
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:16.590
Yes.
644
00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:18.960
And our secrets keep us sick.
645
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.599
And I've just found that the only way I do
646
00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:26.599
think that there's a gift to shame that when you're
647
00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:29.820
feeling it, maybe that's God's signal to be brave.
648
00:35:30.969 --> 00:35:34.199
To have some courage, and to be known. I love that.
649
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.639
That's a biblical take on the function of shame that
650
00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:40.000
we've often talked about.
651
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:42.840
Chip Dodd's Voices of the Heart.
652
00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:43.539
Yes, yes.
653
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:45.590
That's what came to my mind when you said that.
654
00:35:46.369 --> 00:35:47.789
You did it, now what are you going to do
655
00:35:47.849 --> 00:35:49.130
about it? Yeah.
656
00:35:50.389 --> 00:35:52.710
But I love that because that goes back to, in
657
00:35:52.750 --> 00:35:56.289
my mind, original design, like what You know, shame is
658
00:35:56.389 --> 00:35:58.590
obviously a very naturally occurring emotion.
659
00:35:58.630 --> 00:35:59.159
Positively.
660
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.179
You know, what are we supposed to do with that, you.
661
00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:04.699
Know, when it comes to a healthy relationship with God
662
00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:06.059
and a healthy relationship with others?
663
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:11.599
Dwell on it and hide. That's what Adam and Eve did.
664
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:15.030
That's what I'm saying. It goes back to the beginning. Nope,
665
00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:20.329
not me, her. The one you gave me. Quick, find
666
00:36:20.349 --> 00:36:22.909
some fig leaves. What are those going to do? I
667
00:36:22.969 --> 00:36:23.289
don't know.
668
00:36:23.329 --> 00:36:23.710
I don't know.
669
00:36:23.730 --> 00:36:24.369
She'll be for a while.
670
00:36:25.969 --> 00:36:28.230
Suddenly I'm embarrassed about parts of me being exposed.
671
00:36:28.250 --> 00:36:30.090
You can't see me!
672
00:36:30.860 --> 00:36:33.860
It's the kid hiding under the covers in the scary movie.
673
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:37.880
Anyway, what I want to do is literally.
674
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.039
Start the plugs and everything like that. Because what we've
675
00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.860
just unpacked here is pretty deep.
676
00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.210
It's a lot. And I want to get to know how.
677
00:36:49.010 --> 00:36:51.889
Process it where you are going back to that a
678
00:36:51.909 --> 00:36:55.489
little bit um and and how you're you're feeling through
679
00:36:55.530 --> 00:36:58.559
that process the addiction side of this there's there's like
680
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.320
so many sides to this whole thing and and i
681
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:03.440
want to unpack a little bit more of that next
682
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:04.420
this is no sheep puppy.
683
00:37:10.010 --> 00:37:11.219
Talking about some honesty.
684
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:15.320
Some vulnerabilities this week. Well, here's some honesty for you.
685
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:18.750
There is a group of people in our community that
686
00:37:18.809 --> 00:37:22.389
often goes overlooked, especially by our church communities.
687
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:24.099
It's not your fault.
688
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.869
I mean, listen, these families are facing barriers and.
689
00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:28.989
So are you.
690
00:37:29.750 --> 00:37:33.590
So how about a guy who's seeking to raise awareness
691
00:37:34.070 --> 00:37:38.289
about individuals and families who face barriers related to neurodivergency
692
00:37:38.570 --> 00:37:41.909
that make navigating conventional ministry approaches very difficult?
693
00:37:42.570 --> 00:37:45.010
Paul Berkus, he believes that churches.
694
00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:48.619
Need to thoroughly train leaders who can support this unique
695
00:37:48.739 --> 00:37:53.619
population and their families, emphasizing that relational ministry is not
696
00:37:53.659 --> 00:37:56.500
just helpful for the community, but essential for building the
697
00:37:56.519 --> 00:38:01.380
kingdom of God. You need to give him a call, 901-277-5797.
698
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:04.719
He's got 20 years of experience working in the mental
699
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:10.420
health field and that neurodivergent community. He specializes in dialectical
700
00:38:10.460 --> 00:38:11.969
behavioral therapy.
701
00:38:11.739 --> 00:38:13.929
And EMDR, 901-277-5797. Call Paul Berkus, 901-277-5797. A biblical take
702
00:38:14.090 --> 00:38:15.829
on psychology. This is No Sheep Left Behind.
703
00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:41.920
1 Corinthians 4, 16 and 17. The Apostle Paul says,
704
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:46.090
I urge you then, be imitators of me. That is
705
00:38:46.210 --> 00:38:50.750
why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child
706
00:38:50.849 --> 00:38:55.739
in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in
707
00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:01.280
Christ as I teach them everywhere in every church.
708
00:39:02.780 --> 00:39:04.760
Wow. He threw Timothy under the bus too.
709
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:09.579
There it is.
710
00:39:09.619 --> 00:39:11.059
There's my no pressure, Timothy.
711
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:15.300
No pressure at all. Good luck. But you see that.
712
00:39:15.340 --> 00:39:17.139
But even calling him his beloved child.
713
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.510
Yeah. Yes. It's like Timothy. He gets it. Yeah. Right.
714
00:39:21.750 --> 00:39:22.449
Like nobody else.
715
00:39:22.489 --> 00:39:22.849
He said.
716
00:39:22.949 --> 00:39:25.170
Yeah. Like no one else. And he's going to remind
717
00:39:25.190 --> 00:39:27.889
you of my ways. Yes. It gives Timothy a lot
718
00:39:27.909 --> 00:39:28.530
of credit, too.
719
00:39:28.670 --> 00:39:28.869
Yes.
720
00:39:29.070 --> 00:39:31.280
He's like, absolutely. Hey, this is my bro.
721
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:31.780
Yeah.
722
00:39:32.059 --> 00:39:32.659
He's got this.
723
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:32.880
Yeah.
724
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:36.159
And he ran the church in Ephesus, I think. Does
725
00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:37.059
that sound familiar?
726
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:41.369
I mean, there's a lot of speculation on what churches
727
00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:42.030
these guys led.
728
00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:43.650
Yeah. But there's my how.
729
00:39:44.210 --> 00:39:45.349
Right? There it is.
730
00:39:46.530 --> 00:39:47.869
It's there. And it's been.
731
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:51.239
I guess said a couple of times is this, this
732
00:39:51.389 --> 00:39:55.449
modeling thing, uh, you know, we're going back to it. I,
733
00:39:55.769 --> 00:39:58.369
how do you feel now? And you said it before
734
00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:02.170
where you feel liberated, almost you feel if this freedom, right.
735
00:40:02.969 --> 00:40:07.650
Can you put into words what that feels like? What being,
736
00:40:07.710 --> 00:40:10.840
what being liberated feels like, right. How you feel now
737
00:40:11.139 --> 00:40:12.820
in comparison to maybe 2015. Yeah.
738
00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:24.039
Um, My worst day in freedom is better than my
739
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:25.440
best day in addiction.
740
00:40:27.219 --> 00:40:27.500
Nice.
741
00:40:28.179 --> 00:40:32.320
There is not a day that goes by that I
742
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.639
do not, to this day, there's not a day that
743
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:41.050
goes by that I do not stop, pause, and sometimes
744
00:40:41.110 --> 00:40:45.789
look up and just say, God, thank you. Because I
745
00:40:45.829 --> 00:40:47.889
prayed for 30 years that God would set me free
746
00:40:47.909 --> 00:40:52.659
of this. And I don't think God was holding out
747
00:40:52.739 --> 00:40:56.739
on me. But when I, at a certain point, he
748
00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:00.059
equipped me with the tools to be able to follow
749
00:41:00.099 --> 00:41:01.719
him and fully surrender to him.
750
00:41:02.179 --> 00:41:04.880
And the people? Yeah.
751
00:41:05.139 --> 00:41:10.260
People, relationships, the spirit was within me crying out for
752
00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:17.010
these things. I will say that it is incredible to
753
00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:19.769
rarely and I know exaggeration here, and I don't say
754
00:41:19.809 --> 00:41:24.349
this piously or, or pridefully to rarely struggle with lust.
755
00:41:25.349 --> 00:41:26.409
It is incredible.
756
00:41:26.750 --> 00:41:31.139
It is wonderful to have a clear mind and to
757
00:41:31.179 --> 00:41:36.159
be able to look at a female and, and see
758
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:40.559
her soul through her eyes and to care deeply for her. Um,
759
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:44.300
and to not feel shame because there's this temptation to
760
00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:50.460
lust or fantasize. Um, It feels incredible to have a
761
00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:55.760
mind that is fully alive and is not shrouded down
762
00:41:55.800 --> 00:42:03.019
with the weight of shame and addiction and distraction. It
763
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:05.980
has affected every part of my life. I'm more disciplined.
764
00:42:07.579 --> 00:42:12.530
And for me, discipline... is the lack of chaos in
765
00:42:12.570 --> 00:42:15.840
my life. I need discipline for that purpose. I like
766
00:42:15.929 --> 00:42:19.219
feeling like I'm in control. Not that I'm in control
767
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:21.559
in the way that God's in control, but that I'm
768
00:42:21.619 --> 00:42:23.139
not just letting myself go.
769
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:23.960
Out of control.
770
00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:27.139
Yes, out of control. And I just love the feeling
771
00:42:27.340 --> 00:42:32.960
of control and order. Yeah, I just... To know that
772
00:42:32.980 --> 00:42:39.389
my heart's pure, generally, you know, I would trade... anything
773
00:42:39.489 --> 00:42:42.820
for this, for what I have now. That's so powerful.
774
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:48.960
Last week, we read out of Galatians 5, brothers and sisters,
775
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:52.139
you were called to freedom. Only don't let your freedom
776
00:42:52.179 --> 00:42:55.320
become an opportunity for the flesh, but through love, serve
777
00:42:55.389 --> 00:42:55.760
one another.
778
00:42:55.780 --> 00:42:58.050
And I can't.
779
00:42:57.909 --> 00:43:01.670
Remember who it was that I heard at some point
780
00:43:01.690 --> 00:43:03.409
in the past week or so, but they were talking
781
00:43:03.469 --> 00:43:08.510
about the flesh being our natural wiring. Like we have
782
00:43:08.550 --> 00:43:12.610
these lusts and these, you know, I've even heard people say.
783
00:43:13.949 --> 00:43:14.739
It's pretty common.
784
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:18.559
I mean, a man has to have God's help if
785
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:22.800
they're not going to fulfill a lust for another woman
786
00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:23.780
while you're married.
787
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:25.539
I mean, that has to be the case.
788
00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:29.599
So in many ways, that freedom that you're talking about
789
00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:35.500
is this freedom to choose to Not according to the wiring,
790
00:43:35.900 --> 00:43:40.059
not according to this, all these desires and all these, these,
791
00:43:40.179 --> 00:43:43.579
you know, these urges that we have. It's, it's interesting
792
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:45.760
to look at it from that perspective. It's like, we
793
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.239
don't have to fulfill the lust of the flesh.
794
00:43:49.300 --> 00:43:49.480
Right.
795
00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:52.500
If you walk in the spirit, if you walk in the, yeah,
796
00:43:53.059 --> 00:43:53.440
that's it.
797
00:43:53.739 --> 00:43:55.260
Yeah. Giant.
798
00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:55.639
If.
799
00:43:55.980 --> 00:43:56.579
Yeah. Yeah.
800
00:43:57.219 --> 00:44:02.909
Yeah. All the euphoria in the world doesn't touch the freedom.
801
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:05.800
how glorious freedom feels to.
802
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.119
Go back to segment one. I, you know, the imagery
803
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:10.579
that you've kind of painted there in my head was
804
00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:12.519
a giant black cloud, right?
805
00:44:12.820 --> 00:44:15.679
Giant storm cloud. And then all of a sudden, like those.
806
00:44:15.820 --> 00:44:18.820
Those, I call them God rays, you know, I'm talking
807
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:21.539
about where those rays that like peered out and you're like,
808
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:25.199
that's awesome. And you know, you're, you're constantly looking for those,
809
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.480
but that's what I saw in my head. Well, you
810
00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:31.039
were describing that was those God rays that come through
811
00:44:31.059 --> 00:44:33.059
the clouds and you're like, Oh, that's pretty awesome.
812
00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:36.119
I want to read a verse here in just a
813
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:40.400
moment in light of everything that's been said today. And
814
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.079
I want you to think about, and you correct me
815
00:44:43.099 --> 00:44:46.590
if I'm off base here, your testimony of when you
816
00:44:46.909 --> 00:44:50.349
wrote the letter to the five guys, that was like
817
00:44:51.170 --> 00:44:55.449
a fulcrum. It was a link pin that shifted from
818
00:44:55.510 --> 00:44:57.489
where you were to where you are now.
819
00:44:58.349 --> 00:44:58.670
Okay.
820
00:44:58.929 --> 00:45:01.329
That was the shift. That was the change.
821
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:04.389
Am I correct? Yes, I believe you are. Okay, okay.
822
00:45:04.550 --> 00:45:10.889
So this is James, book of James, chapter 5, verse 16. Therefore,
823
00:45:11.630 --> 00:45:16.420
confess your sins to one another and pray for one
824
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:19.719
another that you may be healed.
825
00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:23.000
That first came to my mind.
826
00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:28.010
That's what we're talking about. You're an exemplar of James 5,
827
00:45:28.010 --> 00:45:30.130
verse 16.
828
00:45:31.530 --> 00:45:34.789
Nobody's ever told me that, but thank you. I hope
829
00:45:34.829 --> 00:45:35.929
I am. That's my goal.
830
00:45:36.349 --> 00:45:37.590
But you were to me today.
831
00:45:37.610 --> 00:45:40.730
I would say the same for me. Absolutely.
832
00:45:41.050 --> 00:45:44.130
And and I bet just going out on a limb here,
833
00:45:45.349 --> 00:45:48.030
you mentioned that the relationship that you had with those
834
00:45:48.070 --> 00:45:50.829
other guys, it like went to a new level. Yeah.
835
00:45:50.889 --> 00:45:51.030
Right.
836
00:45:51.250 --> 00:45:54.789
I mean, that's what I assumed happened there. I was
837
00:45:54.869 --> 00:45:56.949
hoping that that was the case in the story. Like
838
00:45:57.250 --> 00:45:59.869
you didn't start reading that, you know, email to those
839
00:45:59.909 --> 00:46:01.289
guys and they're like, geez, dude.
840
00:46:02.059 --> 00:46:04.889
Yeah, we were all like, to be clear, because they're
841
00:46:04.909 --> 00:46:09.730
going to hear this. We were all really vulnerable. And
842
00:46:10.570 --> 00:46:15.230
I'm not suggesting they held back. But from what they
843
00:46:15.289 --> 00:46:22.119
told me after that email, it added a gravity, I think,
844
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.360
to our relationships. And one friend in particular always told me,
845
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:29.969
he always encouraged me, Chris, you just lead the way
846
00:46:29.989 --> 00:46:30.949
when it comes to repentance.
847
00:46:32.150 --> 00:46:35.130
And I'm so glad you said that because I had
848
00:46:35.150 --> 00:46:38.099
a discussion with a good friend. It's a mutual person
849
00:46:38.139 --> 00:46:41.219
that we have. We're sitting on a boat and we
850
00:46:41.260 --> 00:46:44.460
start talking about things and just the door being presented
851
00:46:44.929 --> 00:46:46.550
just to know that the door is there.
852
00:46:47.030 --> 00:46:51.500
Sometimes. All it takes a lot of times. Yeah. Just
853
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:52.219
throwing that out there.
854
00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:55.840
Anyway, listen, doors are presented here and you need to
855
00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:57.440
reach out to a couple of these doors.
856
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:59.179
Open them. I played their ads.
857
00:46:59.219 --> 00:47:01.650
I'm talking about Paul Berks and Paul Hambrick. They are
858
00:47:01.730 --> 00:47:05.769
two fantastic people to contact. If you need to talk
859
00:47:05.789 --> 00:47:08.010
to somebody. Speaking of talking to you can reach out
860
00:47:08.050 --> 00:47:10.690
to us. We are at no sheep left behind. on
861
00:47:10.710 --> 00:47:14.780
your favorite social media network. And there's videos coming soon.
862
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:16.260
Yeah.
863
00:47:16.340 --> 00:47:20.039
So be looking at your favorite video platform. I'm not
864
00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:22.440
going to name names because, you know, they take out
865
00:47:22.460 --> 00:47:22.940
their ad.
866
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:23.820
Revenue, whatever.
867
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:27.690
So reach out to them and find us on there.
868
00:47:27.730 --> 00:47:31.170
We are at No Sheep Left Behind. This has been awesome.
869
00:47:31.530 --> 00:47:31.750
Yes.
870
00:47:32.150 --> 00:47:34.969
And great. Pastor Chris, you're at Renewal Church. Where else
871
00:47:35.010 --> 00:47:35.530
can we find you?
872
00:47:36.670 --> 00:47:39.869
I'm not on socials. Good for you. You'll just have
873
00:47:39.889 --> 00:47:40.769
to go to Renewal Church.
874
00:47:41.289 --> 00:47:41.489
Yeah.
875
00:47:41.769 --> 00:47:43.690
No, good for you. That smart man.
876
00:47:43.750 --> 00:47:43.969
Yeah.
877
00:47:44.550 --> 00:47:45.739
Let me tell you, there's nothing good there.
878
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:50.340
Okay. I took a sabbatical from socials. I left five
879
00:47:50.380 --> 00:47:52.480
years ago, and it's been the best decision. I don't
880
00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:55.719
think everybody should do that. I don't prescribe that, but
881
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:57.699
my anxiety is down 80%.
882
00:47:57.699 --> 00:47:58.570
That's the trick.
883
00:47:59.630 --> 00:48:00.510
That's it.
884
00:48:01.230 --> 00:48:02.090
Speaking of modeling.
885
00:48:06.050 --> 00:48:10.000
No Sheep Left Behind. Written, created, and hosted by Paul
886
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:14.000
Berkus and Paul Hambrick. Director and executive producer, Brody Scott.
887
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:18.179
Music by Paul Berkus and provided by Source Audio. Stay
888
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:20.360
up to date with the latest by following No Sheep
889
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.219
Left Behind on your social platform of choice, and never
890
00:48:23.260 --> 00:48:25.719
miss an episode by liking and following on your favorite
891
00:48:25.739 --> 00:48:26.519
listening platform.
892
00:48:35.929 --> 00:48:37.869
This is a Brody Scott production.