Michael G Orlowski: Welcome to Mojo Motivation and Mental Health, where we're having conversations that change lives. I'm Mike Orlowski Before we start, if you're struggling with thoughts of suicide, struggling mentally, depressed, please reach out. Call or text 988 the suicide & crisis Lifeline. And if it's emergency, call 911. You're not alone, and asking for help is not a weakness. You matter. And if this show helps you, if it may help someone that you know, please like, subscribe and share. We want to get the word spread far and wide as quickly as we can because there are people out there that really need to hear these messages. Today's conversation is about an industry in crisis. Construction ranks second in the nation for suicide rates. Second. My guest, Sonya Bohmann is the executive director of the Construction Industry Alliance for Suicide Prevention, or CIASP. Last year alone, CIASP reached over 20,000 construction workers through 75,3 presentations, free, because Sonya and her team believe cost should never be a barrier to saving lives. We're to talk about why construction workers are at such high risk, the macho culture, the isolation of moving site to site, the seasonal layoffs, physical pain that leads to opioid abuse, and the veterans who make up a significant portion of the workforce. And we're going to talk about what's working. how an industry known for being tough and stoic is starting to have conversations that save lives. If you've listened to any of my other episodes with Ethan Getchell or Colleen Seringer about workplace suicide prevention, this is a continuation of that conversation focused specifically on the construction industry. Sonya, thank you for being here.
Sonya Bohmann: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation.
Michael G Orlowski: I'm grateful for you and looking forward to it myself. Now it's interesting and I've heard this before and it's kind of staggering. Construction is number two in suicide rates. Let's start with those numbers and kind of dig into that because most people are often shocked. They don't think about it, but why is construction high risk?
Sonya Bohmann: So construction is high risk for a lot of reasons, but I think it's important to sort of paint the picture about the statistics first. you look at what we measure in construction, which are fatal worker injuries or OSHA's focus or fatal four, ⁓ were about thousand deaths by the focus four. ⁓ Conversely though, there are about 5,000 deaths by suicide. And there's lots of reasons obviously that can attribute to that.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: But this is a tough industry. It's hard on our bodies. So there's lots of chronic pain. There is that macho attitude where we don't want to ask for help a lot. There's isolation. There is just the demographics. More men than women work in construction and men tend to die by suicide more often than women. There's financial pressures. There's substance use or misuse that falls into this conversation. There's so many things that make it difficult. There's
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: vast veteran workforce who comes with their own risk factors that we have to take into account as well.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm. Absolutely, right. So many things that most of us don't think about or we take for granted, know, with the, you know, obviously in the winter, you're sometimes working in the cold or the extremes, right? It's very stressful. It's hard on the body. Heck, anytime I've done a home improvement project, I can, I remember how sore I've been. cannot imagine doing that every day.
Sonya Bohmann: Sure, yeah. Right, day in and day out in all extremes. It can be really difficult for sure. And then there's injury that comes with that. And sometimes those injuries have, you have their self-medicate or your prescribed, sometimes opioids that lead to addiction and substance use as well. It can be tough.
Michael G Orlowski: Absolutely. Yeah, I remember getting hurt working in a role once and hurt my back and it still bothers me to this day and at the time and it was was rough because you can't work You're limited you feel isolated. It can be depressing You know, there's a lot of factors that can weigh on a person and let alone that, you know, they want to get back to work. Yeah, that's another important part of the topic now CIASP was formed back in 2018 as a standalone nonprofit to address this crisis
Sonya Bohmann: Sure. you Absolutely.
Michael G Orlowski: What was the catalyst and what made the industry finally say, have to do something about this?
Sonya Bohmann: So the conversation really started in 2015. There was a magazine article published in CFMAs, which is the Construction Financial Management Association's magazine. Their magazine is called Building Profit, and it comes out every other month. And there was a series of articles, but the last one was an article written by Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas and Cal Byer that said, there's a growing problem in this industry and we need to do something about it.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: So CFMA started to have summits around the country to really start addressing the conversation. And then right on the heels of that, the CDC came out with their first report that showed that construction is number two for deaths by suicide by occupation. sorry, by industry. And if you add in extraction or the mining industry, ⁓ it makes it number one. And so it recognized that there really is a problem and that we have to start doing something about it.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: then ultimately it was decided that rather than this be tucked up under another organization that CIASP should form its own 501c3 so that we could address the conversation. And we've been at 501c3 ever since and putting out resources to the industry.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. And what type of efforts? Okay. Yeah, I going to say what kind of resources and projects do you do?
Sonya Bohmann: Yep, sorry. yeah. Well, we offer all of our resources 100 % free because as you said, we never want costs to be a barrier to the conversation. So we have things like toolbox talks so that anyone in the industry who wants to start the conversation in their company can do that. We have resources for someone who is struggling. have a free mental health screening tool called ⁓ Connected Mind. What's great about that is that you come to our website and we don't collect any identifying information. And then you go to Connected Minds website and they don't collect any identifying information. So it's a double layer of anonymity, which we know that construction workers really want that protection. They often are ready to seek help, but are worried about doing so in a place that would allow their employer to know that they were struggling.
Michael G Orlowski: Nice.
Sonya Bohmann: So it gives them an opportunity to get a baseline as to what's happening with them. And then at the end of the screening, you can actually print it and take it to your doctor. And there's a QR code at the bottom that only a doctor can access. And it allows them to speed up the diagnostic process. think I read a statistic somewhere that it can take up to 10 years to be able to get a ⁓ diagnosis for mental health. And so this helps sort of bridge that gap as well. ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Right. Wow.
Sonya Bohmann: There's other resources on our website for a company who's trying to decide if they want to have an EAP or how to get an EAP, which is an employee assistance program. That is an add-on to your health insurance that allows your employer to ⁓ with things like mental health, or sometimes they cover things like financial planning or ⁓ you to find other additional resources. So EAPs can be great, but they can be expensive. So it really, the guide allows you to figure out how to do that and how to go to market with it. We have a safe messaging guide. So there's lots of options there depending on what you need and how you need it. And the that we've organized those tools is that they are in a prevention or an awareness ⁓ bucket where how do you start this conversation, an intervention bucket where. You may have already started the conversation, but how do you take that next step? What's training look like and how do you sort of ramp up those tools and then a postvention conversation so that if you are coming to the conversation after a loss, you know how to support your teams.
Michael G Orlowski: Very important. I like the name toolbox talk too. It's it's creative. ⁓ We to get people talking and that's really what really helps the most. Something about EAP came to mind when you talked about it, because I had this conversation with someone the other day. A lot folks are afraid to go to the EAP. It's a concern. They're afraid that the employer is going to find out or that could lead some problems. What kind of experience or have you had those conversations with workers or what does that lead?
Sonya Bohmann: Show. Yeah. So here's what I'll say. Your employer is paying for the EAP and they're not just paying it for it when you use it. They're paying for it because of the number of employees they have. They want you to use it. want someone to be taking advantage of that. And what they really want is an additional layer of support for you or they wouldn't have bought into an EAP. And also 100 % confidential. So there is reporting out that comes with an EAP.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm. Good point.
Sonya Bohmann: but it is the number of usage. It is not how it's being used or who is using it or why they're using it. It's a really great tool that should be taken advantage of. What I think the challenge is is that people A, sometimes are afraid, but B, they don't know how to use it. So if your company has one, ask them to teach you how to use it. And if you are someone who is responsible for the EAP, whether you're in safety or HR or whatever that looks like, test your EAP.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: know exactly how it works, and then share with your team what that process looks like and exactly what it covers, because that's how you start to get people using it. And if it covers family, because if it does message to the family, it's a huge advantage for them.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm. Yeah. That's, yeah. That's a great idea. You know, I can't tell you how many jobs I've had where the EAP is always in the employee handbook, right? And it's listed there and that's it. There's no test, there's no instructions, there's no walkthrough of the process and that creates fear, right? And uncertainty. So if you can bridge that gap, eliminate the fear, it makes a difference. I like that.
Sonya Bohmann: Right. Sure, yes. Yep, absolutely. And if you're already stressed out, you don't know, you're then scared on how to use it, it just adds that other layer of this is too complicated, I'm not doing it.
Michael G Orlowski: Yeah, exactly. Now, know you have a personal connection on the suicide loss side things. That's part what drives your work with CIASP Are you able share some information around how you feel and how that's connected you to what your purpose is?
Sonya Bohmann: It is. Yeah, absolutely. So how I got here is that I spent over a decade in construction, like construction remodels, refreshes, and facilities maintenance. My connection to suicide prevention, though, is that I'm a loss survivor. I lost my sister to suicide almost 18 years ago. And so it's always been part of what I've done as a volunteer. And then
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: Three years ago, I happened to be on LinkedIn and saw an ad for this job. And I thought, wow, that looks like my dream job. It allows me to take the things that I'm passionate about, which is construction and suicide prevention, and put them together and make a career out of it. And I'm really lucky to get to do something that I'm passionate about every day.
Michael G Orlowski: And people lead with purpose, they have such a great impact. And that's great and very important. So thank for doing that because it makes a difference. ⁓ Now, I know you've reached over 20,000 construction workers through 75 pre-presentations, which is massive and it's great work. What does that look like and what are the presentations focused on? Is there continued follow up after the presentations or is it the company's then take it and run with it? How does that work?
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely. Thanks. So we do it two ways. The presentation where we've reached those specific people is an introduction to suicide prevention and the resources that they have available to them. So while we've done 20, I'm sorry, we've done 75 of those presentations, we have some additional sort of pieces to that puzzle as well. We have a podcast where we're reaching out to people and we've been continuing to get viewership just like you. You know, it's a process, certainly. So we just had our one year anniversary of the pod. So we're excited about that. So that's another way that we're able to sort of continue that conversation. The other is that we have a webinar series, it's called Constructing Change. And so every other month we have a deeper dive into a conversation that affects construction mental health, whether it is on workplace violence or veterans in our workforce suicide prevention month or addiction and recovery.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: It really just depends on the topic, but it's one that we get to go a little bit deeper in. You know, just like a pod, you have 45 minutes to kind of touch on the surface of a lot of conversations, but the webinars are a little bit deeper on one specific conversation. so those are ways that we're able to continue those conversations. But ultimately what we would like to do after we leave a company with a presentation or an organization ⁓ give them the tools then to build out their own mental health and wellness program. So on our website, we ask them to take the pledge to say, stand up to suicide prevention. And then we have a needs analysis tool that allows them to walk through what they have in place and what's missing and show them where the gaps are and then go back to our website and use those categories that I talked about to be able to build out the tools that they need to then have a program that stays with the company after we've started the introduction for them.
Michael G Orlowski: which is critical. That's obviously very important and extremely beneficial. I love that. Now you emphasize CASP's resources are free, zero cost. That's great. I why was that non-negotiable? mean, obviously I know the obvious reason. How do you fund it? And then maybe we talk a little bit more about something you enlightened me about today than 211 resource.
Sonya Bohmann: we hope. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So the way that we fund it is through donations. We do not take any government funding currently. So when there are things that are happening in the world that cause other organizations that may be on grants that government funded to worry about what comes next for them, that's not something that we worry about. We've been very lucky that the industry has been supportive of what we're doing. ⁓ And continue to look for that as the basis of our funding so that we can always have those resources available. You mentioned 2-1-1, and it is, I think it is the companion, I would say, resource. So if you think about the resources and how they almost make a Venn diagram, you have 9-1-1, which is for a critical emergency someone is, ⁓ life is in danger. Then have 9-8-8, and while you can look it at as someone where their life is in danger, there's a couple of really great things to think about with 9-8-8 that I'm not sure enough people know about. One, ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: is 911 will immediately be able to tell exactly where you are and they will send out a first responder. 988 is a little bit different and it was designed that way because we know that if people felt like someone was gonna come to their home and immediately address their mental health concerns that that might look like what they believe has been sensationalized in the media. So.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: Excuse me, 980 is a little bit different. 980 does not know exactly where you are. What happens with a 980 call is that your call will go to the nearest cell tower and then it'll be dropped to a crisis intervention center, hopefully in your area. If that is too full, you'll roll to a regional number and then you'll roll to a national number. But they never know exactly where you are. And in about 98 % of the cases, they're able to bring someone down from their crisis point. In another 2%, though, they have to
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: If they can, with that person's permission, dispatch mobile crisis if it's available, they will try to get them to a behavioral health center. And on occasion, they will ask if they can dispatch 911 if they believe that ⁓ is in imminent danger. But great thing is that in that case, they do everything they can to get someone down from their crisis point. The other thing that I think is really important to know ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: to do.
Sonya Bohmann: is that you don't have to just be suicidal to contact 988. You can be struggling with substance use. You can be feeling alone or stressed out or overwhelmed. You could be with someone that's in crisis or you could be worried about someone that's in crisis. And if you're concerned about how it works, I recommend that everybody try it out to see what that conversation looks like. You can text, you can call, and you can chat, and it's available in over 250 languages, including American Sign Language.
Michael G Orlowski: Absolutely. Wow.
Sonya Bohmann: The other thing I would say is that 211 then is that companion resource that goes with that. 211 is a social services resource. So if there is food instability, which we know can add to the stresses from our mental health, if you are feeling like you need resources for substance use, if you are looking for a place to land from a, whether you need place to go for mental health resources. All of those are available there. also have additional social services for if you're struggling with a child who has a learning deficiency or some other things that you might need from a community-based resource, that's your place to go for those things. ⁓ And of these things sort of go hand in hand and that's why they almost make a Venn diagram for supporting the whole person.
Michael G Orlowski: Thank you for sharing that because like I told you, I hadn't heard of two on one before today. Now, 97, I think the number is 97 % of the construction workforce is male. And obviously we deal with it, you know, the macho tough guy stoic culture that kind of discourages people from seeking help. mean, I grew up in the shake it off and rub some dirt on an era. How do you break through that barrier and get men to talk about mental health in this industry?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. Yep. That's a great idea. Yeah, of course. Well, I think that the more we have a conversation, the more we equate mental health, ⁓ health or ⁓ wellness with physical safety, ⁓ more we have an opportunity to have this conversation. And the more people start to recognize that those two things are not separate, but they're really one conversation. ⁓ normalizing it really and that we talk about it just like we talk about the focus for. So we spend a lot of time in construction talking about falls and struck bys and electrocutions and those things. But we have to start talking about not just being fit for duty, but under the hard hat fit for duty.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that's probably the least looked at part of our daily lives. And somebody mentioned to me the other day, you know, we go to the primary care doctor to see about our health. We go to the dentist to look at our teeth, but we almost never go to a doctor to think about our mind. And that's probably just as ⁓ is just as important as everything else. So ⁓ really interesting. I hadn't ever thought of it that way. I know ⁓ veterans choose construction as a career because of the mission oriented mindset.
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Michael G Orlowski: But veterans are also at higher risk, an estimated 22 suicides per day in the veteran population. You've got them already at a higher risk, entering an industry that's also high risk, that compounds it. do you do and what are your thoughts on how we continue to address that?
Sonya Bohmann: So. So veterans make up about 6.5 % of the construction workforce. And while that seems like a very small number, it represents hundreds of thousands of workers. So it's a real conversation that we have to be having. And having the opportunity to have a couple of conversations with some of our veterans in the industry, it's really about focusing on making sure they have the ability to access the resources that are specific to veterans.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: their mindset is different in how they address what they're willing to share. So if you think construction workers are guarded, veterans in construction are even more guarded. ⁓ so giving them resources that are specific to veterans or making sure they have the ability to access those resources, recognizing that some of them that are now starting as apprentices in construction may have been responsible for leading lives in combat situations.
Michael G Orlowski: course. But...
Sonya Bohmann: you know, for that grace and recognition that this is a big step, maybe forward or backwards for some of them, that there are things that you have to recognize that come before their position in construction and that may affect how they look at a situation. And so just being cautious with that, the thing that I would say about any conversation in and around mental health is actually have the conversation, check in, ask how they like to be led, ask how, and this goes to anybody, but
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: specifically with our veterans, it's important just to have real conversations and ask what they need and what support would be helpful for them.
Michael G Orlowski: And I would like go into a few of the risk factors that maybe lead to some of these challenges. ⁓ One being to site isolation, which I hadn't thought about, but construction workers in many jobs move from site to site, sometimes state to state, sometimes further, which creates isolation from family, coworkers, workplace community. Obviously, ⁓ or irregular disrupts sleep patterns. How does that increase the risk feed the risk of suicide?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. Sure. So there's something called Joiner's Interpersonal Theory of Suicide and it really falls into three buckets. One of those is that there's a burdensomeness. ⁓ One that I can this on my own or I am forced to alone in this situation. And then there is that acquired capacity for suicide. And what you're talking kind of falls into that I have to shoulder this or I'm forced to do this alone or that they call it throated belongingness. And so really what you have or what you're faced with there is that there is already that tough stoic mentality. There is the macho-ness of construction workers that come with that, but then the fact that they are not with their communities, the places where they really can be themselves and feel the most comfortable. fact that not is there that isolation, but there's sometimes cyclical changes in our activity. And so, you may or may not be in a position where there's layoffs that happen or you're running towards a specific timeframe. And so that adds to the pressures and you sometimes feel like you have to carry those pressures alone. What's interesting about construction though is that suicide goes across all sections of our industry. So it's not just our workers that are faced with that isolation feelings, but our leadership as well, because sometimes when you're struggling to ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: all of the things that happen in a company, you don't have peers at that level. And so you don't have someone to share that burden with or to help you carry it. so those add to those ⁓ as well.
Michael G Orlowski: Absolutely and a perception of physical pain right these are physically demanding jobs sometimes breaking work You know not always the best working conditions. that can lead to other challenges You can like opiate opioid risk right you get on the painkillers all of a sudden you're used to painkillers you get Addicted to painkillers not only does that put create a safety risk once you're back on the job, but it's also a suicide risk
Sonya Bohmann: They are, yeah. Yes. So I think there is definitely a co-occurrence of substance use in the conversation around mental health and suicide prevention, whether it's opioids or alcohol. ⁓ very much used to have a culture of those things being very much acceptable. I the industry is working really hard to change that. There are many companies that are joining forces with recovery-friendly workplaces. ⁓ to for spaces and places for people to come forward and say, I'm struggling, ⁓ are changing in many places, mocktails are becoming more popular, ⁓ having alcohol as part of the social event is certainly becoming more popular. And looking at ways to support workers when they do have an injury so that ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: they're going through either surgery or they're doing some sort of pain relief that it is a non-opioid pain relief option because what we know about opioids is that the addiction rates are very high. So think that the statistics are for every one day that you are on an opioid there's a six percent chance you'll still be addicted to that drug a year later and it increases exponentially but we also know that you'll continue to chase the pain relief because it never is enough. that there's increased risk for, as you mentioned, depression and for suicide.
Michael G Orlowski: Yeah, it just becomes a vicious cycle and it's one we have to break. Now I know you've got a lived experience video coming out. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about what you're working on?
Sonya Bohmann: It does, absolutely. We do. Yeah, absolutely. So we were lucky enough to have a conversation with four industry professionals who were able to ⁓ their stories with us and allow us to ⁓ those conversations so that we can share them with the industry. It's something that's different than what's already out there. It's in their own words ⁓ it is powerful stories of a mental health struggle, a mental health and alcohol struggle, a mental health and a painkiller struggle, and then one with addiction overall ⁓ how they were able to work through those processes and come out on the other side. And it's really a story of hope and it's a story of healing and it's a story of perseverance. And we're really excited to be able to share them because we know that they will be. ⁓ game changing for the industry to be able to share those with their workers and ask people to themselves in these stories and come and ask for help if they need it.
Michael G Orlowski: Yeah, speaking from experience, can say sharing my story has reached many people and you get messages from them saying, you know, I needed to hear that today. I can relate to this. Same thing when I talk about burnout, it's like, ⁓ I didn't really realize it, but I'm kind of burned out too. sharing stories and experiences is impactful. And I'm glad you're doing this because you can really ⁓ make big difference with that.
Sonya Bohmann: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. We're excited. It will be available on our website where you can download the full video, which is 10 minutes, or you can download vignettes of each of their stories, which are one and a half to two minutes apiece.
Michael G Orlowski: Now, yeah. Okay. Nice, short, but you
Sonya Bohmann: And then there's companion guides on how to use them.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. It gives people an opportunity to, you they may not have the whole time to watch it all at one time, but they can watch them in pieces. You know, it's important that is what's important is that they hear these stories and will you be doing a blitz of some sort or, you know, how do you reach companies so that they can share this? Will you know, maybe some of the companies you've met with, will you be sharing it through them as well or?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. we will, leading up to the premiere, which we hope is going to be in early May, we will be messaging in on our socials. will send it out through our stakeholders. So anyone that takes our pledge becomes a stakeholder. They have access to it. ⁓ And of course, we will have it available on our website for anyone to be able to access.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. Okay, good. I know you and I've got some common connections in Collin Saringer and Ethan Getchell, whom I interviewed for the podcast, and David Kreeger And, you know, we're all out there for the common cause. How does our work complement each other? And ⁓ do we continue to spread the word?
Sonya Bohmann: You do. Yep. That's a great question and I'm really glad you brought it up. I think that there is so many people starting to have this conversation, which is to me. ⁓ cannot be more excited about the fact that ⁓ conversation amplifies another conversation. The that we like to look at it is mission over monument.
Michael G Orlowski: Right.
Sonya Bohmann: And so if there is someone else sharing the mission and putting out really great resources and authentic fact-checked information that has integrity behind it, then we are all about sharing those resources, ⁓ to amplify those voices. The becomes then is when it becomes a monument. Is it bigger than that? Is it something because you want to be first or you want to be the best or you want to do it in spite of someone else? ⁓ And that's not what we focus on. We are very mission forward. Our goal is to be apolitical and to be labor agnostic so that everybody feels like they can come here for a collective goal, which is saving people's lives.
Michael G Orlowski: And that's really what matters at the end of the day, is saving lives. Now, if you have a construction worker out there listening right now and they're struggling, maybe they're on an isolated job site or they're dealing with chronic pain or maybe they just lost their job due to a layoff, what is the first step? What would you recommend that they do? Where do they start?
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely. Yeah. would say reach out for help, right? Even if it's, even if you don't know that you need help, reach out to someone else to make a connection. But importantly, what we know is that it is really hard to ask for help. So I would encourage our, ⁓ people are still on the job, the ones that aren't struggling to look out for those that you might be concerned about.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: the person that you haven't talked to in a little bit, the one that just didn't seem like themselves, them if they're okay, ask them to lunch, have a conversation. If somebody pops into your mind, give them a call, check in, send a text, because that goes a long way. It's much easier for those of us that aren't struggling to check in on someone who is versus that person, putting the burden on the person who's already struggling.
Michael G Orlowski: Yes. Mm-hmm. That's really important. And it all starts with a conversation, reaching out. Yeah, one of things I started doing recently is just randomly finding someone in my phone that I haven't talked to in a while, and just sending them text and just saying, hey, how are you doing? You just don't know until you reach out. And ⁓ costs us almost nothing in the grand scheme of time. And we could save a life. It really makes a difference. ⁓
Sonya Bohmann: Just a conversation. than that. You don't. Yep. Mm-hmm. You can. Yeah.
Michael G Orlowski: Looking at a construction company owner, site supervisor, or foreman that's listening and they want to bring CIASP training to their team, how do they do that? What's the next step? How far out do you typically schedule? What's that process like?
Sonya Bohmann: So you can always go onto our website, which is preventconstructionsuicide.com. can follow us on any of our socials as well. It's usually the CIASP. And it depends on if you want us to be in person or you want us to be virtual. It's much easier, obviously, to come virtually. We can kind of fit it in around other things. From a ⁓ travel ⁓ we usually about a month to make sure that we can get.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: travel secured and have somebody ⁓ able to fit it into their schedule to be there in person. ⁓ we will do our best to do that. While I am only paid employee of CIASP, I have an incredible board who, although they all have full-time jobs in and around the industry, they really do put this at the top of their priorities list. And so we are able to meet almost any ask of us.
Michael G Orlowski: Awesome. That's good. ⁓ a company is looking for help that's say larger in size, I would imagine the zoom option or the virtual can be much more beneficial, right? Because there's so many sites spread out, you can affect more people more quickly.
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. of ways for us to reach an audience, whether it is ⁓ virtually, we can materials, we can do it in person, we can do multiple in persons, that looks like, however we need to work together to do that.
Michael G Orlowski: amazing, which is great. mean, I think the flexibility actually makes it easier than say what it used to be. And that's, that's important. Now, from an industry perspective, you've been doing this work for years, you've reached 20,000 workers, is the industry changing? Are you seeing signs that the macho culture is starting to say crack and that people are becoming a little more willing to talk?
Sonya Bohmann: us. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. What I would love to say is that in the past three years, there is so much hope that's out there. ⁓ so many more people that have joined this conversation. There's so many more people that are sharing their stories. There's so many people that are ⁓ programs within their company that we have to continue to remember that that's happening. I think it's really easy. There was a great article in The New York Times that focused on ⁓ someone in the industry who died by suicide. And there was follow-up articles in lots of different publications. But the thread that I think was missing in those conversations is that there is this hope. There are large companies, there are small companies and everyone in between that's starting these conversations. ⁓ that if we can just ⁓ that and work together towards creating a space that allows for these conversations and reduces the
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: the stigma and almost normalizes it, then we're definitely going to create change. And it's happening.
Michael G Orlowski: And that's what really matters. And ⁓ Sonya thank you. really appreciate ⁓ you do. The work you're doing is saving lives. And it's every single day, not just here and there. It's making an impact. Now, how do folks reach you and connect with CIASP?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You can go to our website, which again is preventconstructionsuicide.com. You'll be able to go to the leadership button and you can email me directly there if you have questions or are looking for more information. We do have an opportunity for someone to volunteer. have, can request a speaker on our website and you can download any one of our resources there. And of course, follow us on socials. We post five days a week on all of our socials.
Michael G Orlowski: No, excellent. Great. ⁓ ⁓ okay, great. And are your volunteers just local to your area or?
Sonya Bohmann: No, our board is all across the country. do have national reach as well as Canada. We do have a Canadian board member ⁓ our volunteers that sit on any of our subcommittees are also ⁓ all around the country. That's how we grow our board ⁓ that you sit on a subcommittee with us for at least a year ⁓ make sure that you're comfortable with the way that we work and that we are all compatible. And then we look to those ⁓ subcommittees to be able to invite people to join our board.
Michael G Orlowski: I think that was a good question to ask because that opens up the door to many more volunteers than say just in the local area. I think that's great.
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely, yep.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. Well, I'd like to and say, you if you're a construction worker, if you work in the trades or if you lead a construction company, go to the CIASP website. It's that you take action now. You'll find free training, free resources, everything you need. And there's no cost barrier. Sonya and CIASP have made sure of that, which is ⁓ really In May, watch for the new lived experience videos featuring real workers sharing real and showing how you can get involved really feel the impact. It's that you understand real life experience and it makes a difference. What I'd ask that you to take away today is if you are struggling and you're in the construction industry or in some other industry and you're listening along, you're not alone. The industry has a suicide crisis. It's not just you. It's not the culture, the isolation, physical demand. All of it adds up. So make sure you take time to talk to someone Reach out 988. There's other resources available to as well. Talk your coworkers, get involved with the EAP as we talked about earlier. There are resources. 2-1-1 is another resource that's available to folks. And if you're a leader in construction, you have the power to change this culture. Bring in CIASP for some training, get your team involved, create safe spaces, and make it okay for people to talk about this. It's really important. So again, if you are struggling, please make sure you reach out. Call 988, and Crisis Lifeline. 911 if it's an emergency. You belong in this world. Your skills matter. Your life matters. And you need to be here. My name is Mike Wurlowski. This is Mojo Motivation and Mental Health, where we're having conversations that change lives. Sonya, thank you again for being here today.
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Have a great day, everyone.
Sonya Bohmann: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation.
Michael G Orlowski: I'm grateful for you and looking forward to it myself. Now it's interesting and I've heard this before and it's kind of staggering. Construction is number two in suicide rates. Let's start with those numbers and kind of dig into that because most people are often shocked. They don't think about it, but why is construction high risk?
Sonya Bohmann: So construction is high risk for a lot of reasons, but I think it's important to sort of paint the picture about the statistics first. you look at what we measure in construction, which are fatal worker injuries or OSHA's focus or fatal four, ⁓ were about thousand deaths by the focus four. ⁓ Conversely though, there are about 5,000 deaths by suicide. And there's lots of reasons obviously that can attribute to that.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: But this is a tough industry. It's hard on our bodies. So there's lots of chronic pain. There is that macho attitude where we don't want to ask for help a lot. There's isolation. There is just the demographics. More men than women work in construction and men tend to die by suicide more often than women. There's financial pressures. There's substance use or misuse that falls into this conversation. There's so many things that make it difficult. There's
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: vast veteran workforce who comes with their own risk factors that we have to take into account as well.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm. Absolutely, right. So many things that most of us don't think about or we take for granted, know, with the, you know, obviously in the winter, you're sometimes working in the cold or the extremes, right? It's very stressful. It's hard on the body. Heck, anytime I've done a home improvement project, I can, I remember how sore I've been. cannot imagine doing that every day.
Sonya Bohmann: Sure, yeah. Right, day in and day out in all extremes. It can be really difficult for sure. And then there's injury that comes with that. And sometimes those injuries have, you have their self-medicate or your prescribed, sometimes opioids that lead to addiction and substance use as well. It can be tough.
Michael G Orlowski: Absolutely. Yeah, I remember getting hurt working in a role once and hurt my back and it still bothers me to this day and at the time and it was was rough because you can't work You're limited you feel isolated. It can be depressing You know, there's a lot of factors that can weigh on a person and let alone that, you know, they want to get back to work. Yeah, that's another important part of the topic now CIASP was formed back in 2018 as a standalone nonprofit to address this crisis
Sonya Bohmann: Sure. you Absolutely.
Michael G Orlowski: What was the catalyst and what made the industry finally say, have to do something about this?
Sonya Bohmann: So the conversation really started in 2015. There was a magazine article published in CFMAs, which is the Construction Financial Management Association's magazine. Their magazine is called Building Profit, and it comes out every other month. And there was a series of articles, but the last one was an article written by Dr. Sally Spencer Thomas and Cal Byer that said, there's a growing problem in this industry and we need to do something about it.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: So CFMA started to have summits around the country to really start addressing the conversation. And then right on the heels of that, the CDC came out with their first report that showed that construction is number two for deaths by suicide by occupation. sorry, by industry. And if you add in extraction or the mining industry, ⁓ it makes it number one. And so it recognized that there really is a problem and that we have to start doing something about it.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: then ultimately it was decided that rather than this be tucked up under another organization that CIASP should form its own 501c3 so that we could address the conversation. And we've been at 501c3 ever since and putting out resources to the industry.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. And what type of efforts? Okay. Yeah, I going to say what kind of resources and projects do you do?
Sonya Bohmann: Yep, sorry. yeah. Well, we offer all of our resources 100 % free because as you said, we never want costs to be a barrier to the conversation. So we have things like toolbox talks so that anyone in the industry who wants to start the conversation in their company can do that. We have resources for someone who is struggling. have a free mental health screening tool called ⁓ Connected Mind. What's great about that is that you come to our website and we don't collect any identifying information. And then you go to Connected Minds website and they don't collect any identifying information. So it's a double layer of anonymity, which we know that construction workers really want that protection. They often are ready to seek help, but are worried about doing so in a place that would allow their employer to know that they were struggling.
Michael G Orlowski: Nice.
Sonya Bohmann: So it gives them an opportunity to get a baseline as to what's happening with them. And then at the end of the screening, you can actually print it and take it to your doctor. And there's a QR code at the bottom that only a doctor can access. And it allows them to speed up the diagnostic process. think I read a statistic somewhere that it can take up to 10 years to be able to get a ⁓ diagnosis for mental health. And so this helps sort of bridge that gap as well. ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Right. Wow.
Sonya Bohmann: There's other resources on our website for a company who's trying to decide if they want to have an EAP or how to get an EAP, which is an employee assistance program. That is an add-on to your health insurance that allows your employer to ⁓ with things like mental health, or sometimes they cover things like financial planning or ⁓ you to find other additional resources. So EAPs can be great, but they can be expensive. So it really, the guide allows you to figure out how to do that and how to go to market with it. We have a safe messaging guide. So there's lots of options there depending on what you need and how you need it. And the that we've organized those tools is that they are in a prevention or an awareness ⁓ bucket where how do you start this conversation, an intervention bucket where. You may have already started the conversation, but how do you take that next step? What's training look like and how do you sort of ramp up those tools and then a postvention conversation so that if you are coming to the conversation after a loss, you know how to support your teams.
Michael G Orlowski: Very important. I like the name toolbox talk too. It's it's creative. ⁓ We to get people talking and that's really what really helps the most. Something about EAP came to mind when you talked about it, because I had this conversation with someone the other day. A lot folks are afraid to go to the EAP. It's a concern. They're afraid that the employer is going to find out or that could lead some problems. What kind of experience or have you had those conversations with workers or what does that lead?
Sonya Bohmann: Show. Yeah. So here's what I'll say. Your employer is paying for the EAP and they're not just paying it for it when you use it. They're paying for it because of the number of employees they have. They want you to use it. want someone to be taking advantage of that. And what they really want is an additional layer of support for you or they wouldn't have bought into an EAP. And also 100 % confidential. So there is reporting out that comes with an EAP.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm. Good point.
Sonya Bohmann: but it is the number of usage. It is not how it's being used or who is using it or why they're using it. It's a really great tool that should be taken advantage of. What I think the challenge is is that people A, sometimes are afraid, but B, they don't know how to use it. So if your company has one, ask them to teach you how to use it. And if you are someone who is responsible for the EAP, whether you're in safety or HR or whatever that looks like, test your EAP.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: know exactly how it works, and then share with your team what that process looks like and exactly what it covers, because that's how you start to get people using it. And if it covers family, because if it does message to the family, it's a huge advantage for them.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm. Yeah. That's, yeah. That's a great idea. You know, I can't tell you how many jobs I've had where the EAP is always in the employee handbook, right? And it's listed there and that's it. There's no test, there's no instructions, there's no walkthrough of the process and that creates fear, right? And uncertainty. So if you can bridge that gap, eliminate the fear, it makes a difference. I like that.
Sonya Bohmann: Right. Sure, yes. Yep, absolutely. And if you're already stressed out, you don't know, you're then scared on how to use it, it just adds that other layer of this is too complicated, I'm not doing it.
Michael G Orlowski: Yeah, exactly. Now, know you have a personal connection on the suicide loss side things. That's part what drives your work with CIASP Are you able share some information around how you feel and how that's connected you to what your purpose is?
Sonya Bohmann: It is. Yeah, absolutely. So how I got here is that I spent over a decade in construction, like construction remodels, refreshes, and facilities maintenance. My connection to suicide prevention, though, is that I'm a loss survivor. I lost my sister to suicide almost 18 years ago. And so it's always been part of what I've done as a volunteer. And then
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: Three years ago, I happened to be on LinkedIn and saw an ad for this job. And I thought, wow, that looks like my dream job. It allows me to take the things that I'm passionate about, which is construction and suicide prevention, and put them together and make a career out of it. And I'm really lucky to get to do something that I'm passionate about every day.
Michael G Orlowski: And people lead with purpose, they have such a great impact. And that's great and very important. So thank for doing that because it makes a difference. ⁓ Now, I know you've reached over 20,000 construction workers through 75 pre-presentations, which is massive and it's great work. What does that look like and what are the presentations focused on? Is there continued follow up after the presentations or is it the company's then take it and run with it? How does that work?
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely. Thanks. So we do it two ways. The presentation where we've reached those specific people is an introduction to suicide prevention and the resources that they have available to them. So while we've done 20, I'm sorry, we've done 75 of those presentations, we have some additional sort of pieces to that puzzle as well. We have a podcast where we're reaching out to people and we've been continuing to get viewership just like you. You know, it's a process, certainly. So we just had our one year anniversary of the pod. So we're excited about that. So that's another way that we're able to sort of continue that conversation. The other is that we have a webinar series, it's called Constructing Change. And so every other month we have a deeper dive into a conversation that affects construction mental health, whether it is on workplace violence or veterans in our workforce suicide prevention month or addiction and recovery.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: It really just depends on the topic, but it's one that we get to go a little bit deeper in. You know, just like a pod, you have 45 minutes to kind of touch on the surface of a lot of conversations, but the webinars are a little bit deeper on one specific conversation. so those are ways that we're able to continue those conversations. But ultimately what we would like to do after we leave a company with a presentation or an organization ⁓ give them the tools then to build out their own mental health and wellness program. So on our website, we ask them to take the pledge to say, stand up to suicide prevention. And then we have a needs analysis tool that allows them to walk through what they have in place and what's missing and show them where the gaps are and then go back to our website and use those categories that I talked about to be able to build out the tools that they need to then have a program that stays with the company after we've started the introduction for them.
Michael G Orlowski: which is critical. That's obviously very important and extremely beneficial. I love that. Now you emphasize CASP's resources are free, zero cost. That's great. I why was that non-negotiable? mean, obviously I know the obvious reason. How do you fund it? And then maybe we talk a little bit more about something you enlightened me about today than 211 resource.
Sonya Bohmann: we hope. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So the way that we fund it is through donations. We do not take any government funding currently. So when there are things that are happening in the world that cause other organizations that may be on grants that government funded to worry about what comes next for them, that's not something that we worry about. We've been very lucky that the industry has been supportive of what we're doing. ⁓ And continue to look for that as the basis of our funding so that we can always have those resources available. You mentioned 2-1-1, and it is, I think it is the companion, I would say, resource. So if you think about the resources and how they almost make a Venn diagram, you have 9-1-1, which is for a critical emergency someone is, ⁓ life is in danger. Then have 9-8-8, and while you can look it at as someone where their life is in danger, there's a couple of really great things to think about with 9-8-8 that I'm not sure enough people know about. One, ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: is 911 will immediately be able to tell exactly where you are and they will send out a first responder. 988 is a little bit different and it was designed that way because we know that if people felt like someone was gonna come to their home and immediately address their mental health concerns that that might look like what they believe has been sensationalized in the media. So.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: Excuse me, 980 is a little bit different. 980 does not know exactly where you are. What happens with a 980 call is that your call will go to the nearest cell tower and then it'll be dropped to a crisis intervention center, hopefully in your area. If that is too full, you'll roll to a regional number and then you'll roll to a national number. But they never know exactly where you are. And in about 98 % of the cases, they're able to bring someone down from their crisis point. In another 2%, though, they have to
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: If they can, with that person's permission, dispatch mobile crisis if it's available, they will try to get them to a behavioral health center. And on occasion, they will ask if they can dispatch 911 if they believe that ⁓ is in imminent danger. But great thing is that in that case, they do everything they can to get someone down from their crisis point. The other thing that I think is really important to know ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: to do.
Sonya Bohmann: is that you don't have to just be suicidal to contact 988. You can be struggling with substance use. You can be feeling alone or stressed out or overwhelmed. You could be with someone that's in crisis or you could be worried about someone that's in crisis. And if you're concerned about how it works, I recommend that everybody try it out to see what that conversation looks like. You can text, you can call, and you can chat, and it's available in over 250 languages, including American Sign Language.
Michael G Orlowski: Absolutely. Wow.
Sonya Bohmann: The other thing I would say is that 211 then is that companion resource that goes with that. 211 is a social services resource. So if there is food instability, which we know can add to the stresses from our mental health, if you are feeling like you need resources for substance use, if you are looking for a place to land from a, whether you need place to go for mental health resources. All of those are available there. also have additional social services for if you're struggling with a child who has a learning deficiency or some other things that you might need from a community-based resource, that's your place to go for those things. ⁓ And of these things sort of go hand in hand and that's why they almost make a Venn diagram for supporting the whole person.
Michael G Orlowski: Thank you for sharing that because like I told you, I hadn't heard of two on one before today. Now, 97, I think the number is 97 % of the construction workforce is male. And obviously we deal with it, you know, the macho tough guy stoic culture that kind of discourages people from seeking help. mean, I grew up in the shake it off and rub some dirt on an era. How do you break through that barrier and get men to talk about mental health in this industry?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. Yep. That's a great idea. Yeah, of course. Well, I think that the more we have a conversation, the more we equate mental health, ⁓ health or ⁓ wellness with physical safety, ⁓ more we have an opportunity to have this conversation. And the more people start to recognize that those two things are not separate, but they're really one conversation. ⁓ normalizing it really and that we talk about it just like we talk about the focus for. So we spend a lot of time in construction talking about falls and struck bys and electrocutions and those things. But we have to start talking about not just being fit for duty, but under the hard hat fit for duty.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that's probably the least looked at part of our daily lives. And somebody mentioned to me the other day, you know, we go to the primary care doctor to see about our health. We go to the dentist to look at our teeth, but we almost never go to a doctor to think about our mind. And that's probably just as ⁓ is just as important as everything else. So ⁓ really interesting. I hadn't ever thought of it that way. I know ⁓ veterans choose construction as a career because of the mission oriented mindset.
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Michael G Orlowski: But veterans are also at higher risk, an estimated 22 suicides per day in the veteran population. You've got them already at a higher risk, entering an industry that's also high risk, that compounds it. do you do and what are your thoughts on how we continue to address that?
Sonya Bohmann: So. So veterans make up about 6.5 % of the construction workforce. And while that seems like a very small number, it represents hundreds of thousands of workers. So it's a real conversation that we have to be having. And having the opportunity to have a couple of conversations with some of our veterans in the industry, it's really about focusing on making sure they have the ability to access the resources that are specific to veterans.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: their mindset is different in how they address what they're willing to share. So if you think construction workers are guarded, veterans in construction are even more guarded. ⁓ so giving them resources that are specific to veterans or making sure they have the ability to access those resources, recognizing that some of them that are now starting as apprentices in construction may have been responsible for leading lives in combat situations.
Michael G Orlowski: course. But...
Sonya Bohmann: you know, for that grace and recognition that this is a big step, maybe forward or backwards for some of them, that there are things that you have to recognize that come before their position in construction and that may affect how they look at a situation. And so just being cautious with that, the thing that I would say about any conversation in and around mental health is actually have the conversation, check in, ask how they like to be led, ask how, and this goes to anybody, but
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: specifically with our veterans, it's important just to have real conversations and ask what they need and what support would be helpful for them.
Michael G Orlowski: And I would like go into a few of the risk factors that maybe lead to some of these challenges. ⁓ One being to site isolation, which I hadn't thought about, but construction workers in many jobs move from site to site, sometimes state to state, sometimes further, which creates isolation from family, coworkers, workplace community. Obviously, ⁓ or irregular disrupts sleep patterns. How does that increase the risk feed the risk of suicide?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. Sure. So there's something called Joiner's Interpersonal Theory of Suicide and it really falls into three buckets. One of those is that there's a burdensomeness. ⁓ One that I can this on my own or I am forced to alone in this situation. And then there is that acquired capacity for suicide. And what you're talking kind of falls into that I have to shoulder this or I'm forced to do this alone or that they call it throated belongingness. And so really what you have or what you're faced with there is that there is already that tough stoic mentality. There is the macho-ness of construction workers that come with that, but then the fact that they are not with their communities, the places where they really can be themselves and feel the most comfortable. fact that not is there that isolation, but there's sometimes cyclical changes in our activity. And so, you may or may not be in a position where there's layoffs that happen or you're running towards a specific timeframe. And so that adds to the pressures and you sometimes feel like you have to carry those pressures alone. What's interesting about construction though is that suicide goes across all sections of our industry. So it's not just our workers that are faced with that isolation feelings, but our leadership as well, because sometimes when you're struggling to ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: all of the things that happen in a company, you don't have peers at that level. And so you don't have someone to share that burden with or to help you carry it. so those add to those ⁓ as well.
Michael G Orlowski: Absolutely and a perception of physical pain right these are physically demanding jobs sometimes breaking work You know not always the best working conditions. that can lead to other challenges You can like opiate opioid risk right you get on the painkillers all of a sudden you're used to painkillers you get Addicted to painkillers not only does that put create a safety risk once you're back on the job, but it's also a suicide risk
Sonya Bohmann: They are, yeah. Yes. So I think there is definitely a co-occurrence of substance use in the conversation around mental health and suicide prevention, whether it's opioids or alcohol. ⁓ very much used to have a culture of those things being very much acceptable. I the industry is working really hard to change that. There are many companies that are joining forces with recovery-friendly workplaces. ⁓ to for spaces and places for people to come forward and say, I'm struggling, ⁓ are changing in many places, mocktails are becoming more popular, ⁓ having alcohol as part of the social event is certainly becoming more popular. And looking at ways to support workers when they do have an injury so that ⁓
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: they're going through either surgery or they're doing some sort of pain relief that it is a non-opioid pain relief option because what we know about opioids is that the addiction rates are very high. So think that the statistics are for every one day that you are on an opioid there's a six percent chance you'll still be addicted to that drug a year later and it increases exponentially but we also know that you'll continue to chase the pain relief because it never is enough. that there's increased risk for, as you mentioned, depression and for suicide.
Michael G Orlowski: Yeah, it just becomes a vicious cycle and it's one we have to break. Now I know you've got a lived experience video coming out. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about what you're working on?
Sonya Bohmann: It does, absolutely. We do. Yeah, absolutely. So we were lucky enough to have a conversation with four industry professionals who were able to ⁓ their stories with us and allow us to ⁓ those conversations so that we can share them with the industry. It's something that's different than what's already out there. It's in their own words ⁓ it is powerful stories of a mental health struggle, a mental health and alcohol struggle, a mental health and a painkiller struggle, and then one with addiction overall ⁓ how they were able to work through those processes and come out on the other side. And it's really a story of hope and it's a story of healing and it's a story of perseverance. And we're really excited to be able to share them because we know that they will be. ⁓ game changing for the industry to be able to share those with their workers and ask people to themselves in these stories and come and ask for help if they need it.
Michael G Orlowski: Yeah, speaking from experience, can say sharing my story has reached many people and you get messages from them saying, you know, I needed to hear that today. I can relate to this. Same thing when I talk about burnout, it's like, ⁓ I didn't really realize it, but I'm kind of burned out too. sharing stories and experiences is impactful. And I'm glad you're doing this because you can really ⁓ make big difference with that.
Sonya Bohmann: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. We're excited. It will be available on our website where you can download the full video, which is 10 minutes, or you can download vignettes of each of their stories, which are one and a half to two minutes apiece.
Michael G Orlowski: Now, yeah. Okay. Nice, short, but you
Sonya Bohmann: And then there's companion guides on how to use them.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. It gives people an opportunity to, you they may not have the whole time to watch it all at one time, but they can watch them in pieces. You know, it's important that is what's important is that they hear these stories and will you be doing a blitz of some sort or, you know, how do you reach companies so that they can share this? Will you know, maybe some of the companies you've met with, will you be sharing it through them as well or?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. we will, leading up to the premiere, which we hope is going to be in early May, we will be messaging in on our socials. will send it out through our stakeholders. So anyone that takes our pledge becomes a stakeholder. They have access to it. ⁓ And of course, we will have it available on our website for anyone to be able to access.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. Okay, good. I know you and I've got some common connections in Collin Saringer and Ethan Getchell, whom I interviewed for the podcast, and David Kreeger And, you know, we're all out there for the common cause. How does our work complement each other? And ⁓ do we continue to spread the word?
Sonya Bohmann: You do. Yep. That's a great question and I'm really glad you brought it up. I think that there is so many people starting to have this conversation, which is to me. ⁓ cannot be more excited about the fact that ⁓ conversation amplifies another conversation. The that we like to look at it is mission over monument.
Michael G Orlowski: Right.
Sonya Bohmann: And so if there is someone else sharing the mission and putting out really great resources and authentic fact-checked information that has integrity behind it, then we are all about sharing those resources, ⁓ to amplify those voices. The becomes then is when it becomes a monument. Is it bigger than that? Is it something because you want to be first or you want to be the best or you want to do it in spite of someone else? ⁓ And that's not what we focus on. We are very mission forward. Our goal is to be apolitical and to be labor agnostic so that everybody feels like they can come here for a collective goal, which is saving people's lives.
Michael G Orlowski: And that's really what matters at the end of the day, is saving lives. Now, if you have a construction worker out there listening right now and they're struggling, maybe they're on an isolated job site or they're dealing with chronic pain or maybe they just lost their job due to a layoff, what is the first step? What would you recommend that they do? Where do they start?
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely. Yeah. would say reach out for help, right? Even if it's, even if you don't know that you need help, reach out to someone else to make a connection. But importantly, what we know is that it is really hard to ask for help. So I would encourage our, ⁓ people are still on the job, the ones that aren't struggling to look out for those that you might be concerned about.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: the person that you haven't talked to in a little bit, the one that just didn't seem like themselves, them if they're okay, ask them to lunch, have a conversation. If somebody pops into your mind, give them a call, check in, send a text, because that goes a long way. It's much easier for those of us that aren't struggling to check in on someone who is versus that person, putting the burden on the person who's already struggling.
Michael G Orlowski: Yes. Mm-hmm. That's really important. And it all starts with a conversation, reaching out. Yeah, one of things I started doing recently is just randomly finding someone in my phone that I haven't talked to in a while, and just sending them text and just saying, hey, how are you doing? You just don't know until you reach out. And ⁓ costs us almost nothing in the grand scheme of time. And we could save a life. It really makes a difference. ⁓
Sonya Bohmann: Just a conversation. than that. You don't. Yep. Mm-hmm. You can. Yeah.
Michael G Orlowski: Looking at a construction company owner, site supervisor, or foreman that's listening and they want to bring CIASP training to their team, how do they do that? What's the next step? How far out do you typically schedule? What's that process like?
Sonya Bohmann: So you can always go onto our website, which is preventconstructionsuicide.com. can follow us on any of our socials as well. It's usually the CIASP. And it depends on if you want us to be in person or you want us to be virtual. It's much easier, obviously, to come virtually. We can kind of fit it in around other things. From a ⁓ travel ⁓ we usually about a month to make sure that we can get.
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: travel secured and have somebody ⁓ able to fit it into their schedule to be there in person. ⁓ we will do our best to do that. While I am only paid employee of CIASP, I have an incredible board who, although they all have full-time jobs in and around the industry, they really do put this at the top of their priorities list. And so we are able to meet almost any ask of us.
Michael G Orlowski: Awesome. That's good. ⁓ a company is looking for help that's say larger in size, I would imagine the zoom option or the virtual can be much more beneficial, right? Because there's so many sites spread out, you can affect more people more quickly.
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah, absolutely. of ways for us to reach an audience, whether it is ⁓ virtually, we can materials, we can do it in person, we can do multiple in persons, that looks like, however we need to work together to do that.
Michael G Orlowski: amazing, which is great. mean, I think the flexibility actually makes it easier than say what it used to be. And that's, that's important. Now, from an industry perspective, you've been doing this work for years, you've reached 20,000 workers, is the industry changing? Are you seeing signs that the macho culture is starting to say crack and that people are becoming a little more willing to talk?
Sonya Bohmann: us. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. What I would love to say is that in the past three years, there is so much hope that's out there. ⁓ so many more people that have joined this conversation. There's so many more people that are sharing their stories. There's so many people that are ⁓ programs within their company that we have to continue to remember that that's happening. I think it's really easy. There was a great article in The New York Times that focused on ⁓ someone in the industry who died by suicide. And there was follow-up articles in lots of different publications. But the thread that I think was missing in those conversations is that there is this hope. There are large companies, there are small companies and everyone in between that's starting these conversations. ⁓ that if we can just ⁓ that and work together towards creating a space that allows for these conversations and reduces the
Michael G Orlowski: Mm-hmm.
Sonya Bohmann: the stigma and almost normalizes it, then we're definitely going to create change. And it's happening.
Michael G Orlowski: And that's what really matters. And ⁓ Sonya thank you. really appreciate ⁓ you do. The work you're doing is saving lives. And it's every single day, not just here and there. It's making an impact. Now, how do folks reach you and connect with CIASP?
Sonya Bohmann: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You can go to our website, which again is preventconstructionsuicide.com. You'll be able to go to the leadership button and you can email me directly there if you have questions or are looking for more information. We do have an opportunity for someone to volunteer. have, can request a speaker on our website and you can download any one of our resources there. And of course, follow us on socials. We post five days a week on all of our socials.
Michael G Orlowski: No, excellent. Great. ⁓ ⁓ okay, great. And are your volunteers just local to your area or?
Sonya Bohmann: No, our board is all across the country. do have national reach as well as Canada. We do have a Canadian board member ⁓ our volunteers that sit on any of our subcommittees are also ⁓ all around the country. That's how we grow our board ⁓ that you sit on a subcommittee with us for at least a year ⁓ make sure that you're comfortable with the way that we work and that we are all compatible. And then we look to those ⁓ subcommittees to be able to invite people to join our board.
Michael G Orlowski: I think that was a good question to ask because that opens up the door to many more volunteers than say just in the local area. I think that's great.
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely, yep.
Michael G Orlowski: Excellent. Well, I'd like to and say, you if you're a construction worker, if you work in the trades or if you lead a construction company, go to the CIASP website. It's that you take action now. You'll find free training, free resources, everything you need. And there's no cost barrier. Sonya and CIASP have made sure of that, which is ⁓ really In May, watch for the new lived experience videos featuring real workers sharing real and showing how you can get involved really feel the impact. It's that you understand real life experience and it makes a difference. What I'd ask that you to take away today is if you are struggling and you're in the construction industry or in some other industry and you're listening along, you're not alone. The industry has a suicide crisis. It's not just you. It's not the culture, the isolation, physical demand. All of it adds up. So make sure you take time to talk to someone Reach out 988. There's other resources available to as well. Talk your coworkers, get involved with the EAP as we talked about earlier. There are resources. 2-1-1 is another resource that's available to folks. And if you're a leader in construction, you have the power to change this culture. Bring in CIASP for some training, get your team involved, create safe spaces, and make it okay for people to talk about this. It's really important. So again, if you are struggling, please make sure you reach out. Call 988, and Crisis Lifeline. 911 if it's an emergency. You belong in this world. Your skills matter. Your life matters. And you need to be here. My name is Mike Wurlowski. This is Mojo Motivation and Mental Health, where we're having conversations that change lives. Sonya, thank you again for being here today.
Sonya Bohmann: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Have a great day, everyone.
