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Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Margus and Manuscripts.
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We are so happy to introduce you to Kat Mackenzie and her latest book, Experiments in Offline Dating, which is out today, August 25th.
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Um, so Kat Right's Travel Brown comes, which you know are like absolutely right up our alley, and she sweeps you off to Ireland in County Claire in her latest release, and we are so happy to have her on the podcast, not only because her book was fabulous, and it had everything we ever hoped and dreamed of, um, including baby sheep, uh, but also because Kat has a knack for very sharp banter, um, capturing local dialects, and a perfectly crafted insult.
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Um, and we are just dying laughing the entire time.
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So we're so happy that she came on.
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Before we dive into the episode, couple quick announcements.
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Um, we have an e-newsletter and we are on Substack, if you did not see that over the last couple weeks.
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Um, so we'll be posting more there.
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But in order to get the word out more about Marg's manuscripts, uh, feel free to follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
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That's probably the easiest way that you can help support the pod.
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So thank you to everyone that has done so already.
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Um, and buckle up, pour yourself a margarita or a Guinness, and uh enjoy our episode with Kat.
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We love you, and congratulations on an absolutely incredible book, Kat.
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We love you so much.
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Cheers.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm very excited.
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We are so excited.
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Anybody that Avon is like, you're you would love like we've always had the best like time with Yvonne authors.
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So we're so excited.
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And we've read your book.
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Um, and we got beautiful copies of it here.
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I I didn't expect you to read it yet.
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I thought, so thank you.
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That's exciting.
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Oh my gosh, so for sure.
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I'll take everything.
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If it's birds, if it's possums, if it's raccoons, bunnies, ducks, you name it.
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I don't care if it wants to bite me or sting me, I'll take it all and try to rehab it or get it to a wildlife rehab.
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Or um, I used to do a lot more rehabbing, but anyway.
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So you haven't written a romance about a dog rescue?
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Not yet.
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But this one, the new one, she had six cats because she has clearly a problem with fostering, and foster fails.
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So, you know, there's a little bit of a little bit of truth in there.
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The cat and there is the baby sheep and the lamb and all the sheep.
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Yes, that's true as well.
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And the baby like sheep detective.
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Yeah.
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Exactly that the baby sheep.
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Like I could feel them in my arms as I'm reading.
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I'm I felt like I was holding a baby sheep.
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I held that baby sheep that inspired writing the story.
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And I don't know if you've noticed that um the author photo that I most frequently use is me holding a baby sheep in Ireland.
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And I just used it because I didn't.
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There it is.
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It's this one.
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And I used it at first because I was like, ah, I don't know.
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I don't really have an official author photo.
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And my friends chose that one.
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I was like, all right, we got it, baby sheep.
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But then, um, you know, and I I understand I should be saying lamb.
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I don't know why I'm saying baby sheep, but anyway.
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And then like now, my second book is coming out, and we're talking about lambs, and there's the scene where she's picking up the lamb.
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And I was like, I think I'm just gonna keep.
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I had these like gorgeous professional photos taken in Scotland, and I haven't used them yet because I was like, well, but this one advertises what it does in the book, you know.
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So yeah, I've got the the baby lamb photo, and I'm sticking with it for right now, but I love it.
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It's it's a full circle, very meta um, completely like entrenched in this story.
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I commit we're good.
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I commit fully to the reason.
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You did.
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Yes, and I want to just go back to Ireland with you.
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I've never been to Ireland, so I need like someone to take me and like hold my hand and introduce me to the baby sheep.
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Yeah, I have a go bag and it's already packed, and I I have flyer miles.
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I could be ready as soon as now.
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So I don't know how serious you are, but I'm ready to go.
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Always.
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Um, I'll see if the husband's cool with watching the children.
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I mean, go ahead.
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Or just let it be.
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So we uh yeah, we love a good, we love a travel romance.
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Oh wonderful.
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Thank you.
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We love a travel romance.
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Um I know from experience that you cannot write a travel romance unless you have been deeply, deeply affected and moved by the place that they're traveling to.
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So, like, what's the story?
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I want the tea on what happened in Ireland.
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Something happened.
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Something happened.
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What do you think about you?
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Um Yeah.
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So I used to live in the UK for about 10 years.
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And then um I did, I lived in Galway for about three months, which was fabulous.
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And I absolutely love Galway and would happily live there long term.
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Um, and for some reason it got kind of shafted in this book.
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I had always planned to have Galway scenes and then they never happened.
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And I was like, why the it's a short, quick thing in this one.
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So when I got my deal from Avon for my first bookwork in progress, basically immediately after that, because I had this there is, I should say, for any listeners that have not yet read The Blurb or my book, um, it's about a matchmaking festival that happens in Ireland every summer in County Clare.
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And that had been on my radar for a few years.
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And I had decided that if by chance I sold my first book, the second one was gonna have to be about this matchmaking festival.
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And um I am a single divorcee and was like, I can absolutely in situ research this and also maybe get married to a farmer and live in Ireland.
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I don't know.
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Let's see what happens.
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So I I got my first book deal and then I booked a flight to return to Ireland, and I spent um, I spent about uh, I guess another two and a half months or so, and I traveled all around because when I lived in Galway, I was kind of watching the pennies.
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Um and so I d had done some nearby travel, but there was a lot of Ireland that I hadn't seen, and things like Giant's Causeway, which are just, you know, you I feel like even though they're huge tourist sites, you really have to go.
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Um, and so there were places that I hadn't been.
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So for for this trip, I had gone through and um, you know, kind of hit all the sites that I'd missed on the first try, and also met up with a lot of friends that I had made living in Galway, but also friends from Britain or fri I had a Swedish friend come out to see me.
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So I had like at any given point in these two months, people coming to meet me, and then we'd have like a little road trip or we'd go to the matchmaking festival.
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Um and uh I did also meet some friends at the festival that I still talked to years later.
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Um so yeah, that's a very long preface to the story.
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Um, but yeah, I went for two months and I traveled around and I went to the matchmaking festival and I signed up with the second generation matchmaker, third generation matchmaker?
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I think he's third generation.
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That's terrible.
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I should uh remember.
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But um his name is Willie Daly, and he is a remarkable character.
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And he stop.
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He's a real life matchmaker that lives in County Clare, close to Lestunvarna, where they have this matchmaking festival.
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And he's somewhat who I obviously who I base Jackie on, he's world famous.
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I was on the news with him on some German channel where they interviewed us both for no other reason that I was nearby.
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But um he's his face, the bit where his face is painted on the side of the pub is a real thing.
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Like they've painted um Willie's face on the side of the matchmaker pub in Listunvarna.
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And um my matchmaker is different, his personality is quite a bit different from um from Willie's, but a lot of the same things are true.
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Like he's just a lovely man with so many stories.
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And actually, he has he there a bit that I thought was like I didn't want to replicate him too much in my book, but one thing that is actually like so much more fantastical than my matchmaker and my book is that um Willie has this book, this dating, old leather-bound dating magic book from his grandfather that has been passed down for generations.
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It's like tie it's all the binding is coming apart.
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It's like tied together with like leather straps and stuff.
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And this thing has been through the wars, and it's like when you you fill out the matchmaking form and he like slips it in the book with all the other paperwork, and you're supposed to like put your hands on the book and kind of make a little wish for your own romantic journey, and supposedly within six months, you're supposed to find the person that you're supposed to be with, which unfortunately did not work for me yet.
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But we need to go do it again.
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It's going to be good.
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It's a when does it start?
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It's August.
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Does it start soon?
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Is it now?
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It's every September, I believe.
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I should have double-checked that.
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But yeah, I think it's the entire month of September.
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And basically, it originally started as for like farmers who were coming in off the harvest who wanted a wife.
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And so people from all over Ireland would come and meet these farmers.
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Um because I guess during during work time, you're off on your farm and you're far away from society.
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So you would come in for the music and the dancing and maybe meet somebody.
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Um, and it's kind of now a lot of people come mostly from Ireland, but all over Europe and America and stuff to go and meet people and um yeah.
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I your book feels so genuine and authentic, and like I think it's because you had all of these exp you had so many experiences that you didn't have to like, I wonder what it's like.
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But no, like you you lived it and it feels like I was just reading someone's journal and it was beautiful.
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Thank you.
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I do try to so um for both of my travel rom coms, you all of the if I mention a a site or a shop or restaurant or a pub by name, then it's real and I've been there.
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And usually I'll also talk about the food because that's the best, that's the point of traveling, isn't it?
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Drink some food.
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So um I I love it because actually I have a lot of readers get in touch and say, like, I was Googling the whole way through and like having a look at the libraries or having a look at the pub or like, you know, adding things to my own bucket list, or I'm gonna be going there in six months, and now I have like a little itinerary, and I just love that so much.
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Um so yeah, when I talk about the fish and chips, I have eaten those fish and chips and they were memorable.
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Kate, I'm getting this like wild hair where I know we need to go to Europe at some point.
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I've never been.
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And I want like Cody really wants to go to like where your book was set, specifically, Kate, because he loves Normandy and all of that.
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So I really think we need to do like a tour de Europe with hitting all of these spots from all of these books and authors that we've interviewed and just have a riot of a time.
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And I'm so ready.
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I'm ready to go now.
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Are you ready?
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Yeah, I'll call you up.
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We're gonna book it, we're gonna do the thing.
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No, it's so true.
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And in yours, you like go like you hit the entire country.
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It is so I don't know how you crammed that all into one trip, but it was really impressive.
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Um and you just yeah, it made me miss everything.
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Well, I'm I'm fascinated because I was like reading the dialect, how you write dialect was incredible.
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Like I was like, her husband has to be Irish, or she has to be hearing this every single day of her to be able to like nail it so hard.
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But did you how do you write dialogue like that?
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That's in accents and like how you do it.
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He's very kind and generous.
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And I don't think I've received that compliment before.
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So I thank you, and I will take that.
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Um yeah, he was very real.
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I felt like ah, when Jackie Kelly was like, Oh, you're grand.
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I was like I guess felt like I was listening to the little the guy the little old man from um oh my god, what's that Disney Channel movie, La Luck of the Irish?
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Like the little guy.
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Like I it was so real.
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It was just it was very like warm.
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Anyway, but yeah, like did you get feedback on it or did it just kind of come from memory?
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I just I guess I I did not get any feedback on it.
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And I um I guess I just I you know, I kind of heard it in my head and typed it out.
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Um and I would like to hope that the Irish people of the world that read it will agree with you.
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I am not sure.
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So we will see.
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But I have um one of my best friends Beta Red work in progress, and I had another short that was um in an Irish accent and with an Irish MMC that is was a fantasy, was a totally different thing.
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And I was like, Jackie, will you please read this and just make sure like how does the Irish accent sound and how can I make it more realistic?
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And she was like, I don't know, Kat, I can't answer that.
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So I was like, well, I'm just gonna sling it out there and we'll see what we get.
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So hopefully, but I did consult two um good Irish friends about um curse words, and they are in my acknowledgments, and they um insisted that I use the term wank stain, which is a little gross.
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And I have I was like, is this the one are we using this?
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But I then I did it and I was like, Yes, I am.
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I'm leaning in to wank, I'm leaning in to wank stain, and there it is in my book now.
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So yeah, that's those were my Irish consultants.
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That is a choice.
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It's a choice I made my regret, you know.
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Well, you have a lot of I wish I highlighted them or picked them out, like the internalizations that she has are so fucking hilarious.
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And there is a lot of I feel like you come up with your own versions of that so many times.
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I do like a carefully crafted insult.
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I feel like that's really what my writing is about.
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So that's when people are like, what are your take-home messages of this beautiful novel that you wrote for years?
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They don't ask me that.
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But they might ask, say, a Litvik author, what is the take-home message?
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If they were to ask me that, I would say it's the art of the insult.
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That's what I'm supplying to the world.
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This is my, you know, this is my legacy.
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I hope.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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You are gifting the you are this is a gift that you're bestowing upon the world, and people better be fucking grateful.
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So all those Wangstains out there better be grateful.
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That's all I'm saying.
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Please don't quote me.
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That is the soundbite for the whole episode.
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That is going on socials.
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It's all we need with our little logo right on top.
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Gonna get canceled.
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Kat McKinsey, canceled.
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Marks and manuscript.
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I just like I just put out a reel this week where I like fuck was at the core of it.
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And I know I'm gonna be hearing from my mother.
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It's okay.
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She's getting used to the idea.
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No, my poor mom is always like, where did we go wrong?
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What happened?
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Like, I don't, what can I say?
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You know that part of the show where other podcasts try to convince you that your mattress is out to get you?
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Well, this is that part, except we skipped the mattress and brought you a book.
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So, welcome to the book break.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.359
And since it's our very first one, we picked a really good one.
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Today's book is Liar Liar, the debut romance from Lucy Lee.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:28.000
Lena is broke, jobless, and the accidental winner of a hundred thousand dollar love story contest.
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:33.279
The fine print, she needs a real couple to claim the money, and she is extremely single.
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.640
So she talks Mac, her favorite banter buddy, from Liars Anonymous into fake dating her.
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And the lie does not stay a lie for very long.
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So if you live for fake dating, forced proximity, and a slow burn of secret pining, this one's got your name on it.
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It's open door and steamy.
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Um, about three uh chili peppers, if you will.
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Our favorite line from the book Quote Of all the lies I've ever heard before, I love you is my favorite.
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Liar Liar is out now.
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Link is in the show notes.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.960
I'm so curious too about like just the writing and publishing journey.
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.039
Cause I didn't I didn't look up too much about your background or anything.
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.000
Like, I just want to I want to ask the questions here and hear it.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.319
But yeah, like how did you get this?
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.400
Is the second book with Avon.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.079
What was the journey?
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.920
And you, Kate, you just released a book last month, is that right?
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.920
So that's very exciting.
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:26.880
Congratulations.
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.200
And I same thing, travel.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:34.960
I hope you celebrate because I with all I have a lot of author friends.
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:39.359
I'm very lucky to say that I now have a lot of author friends, mostly because we trauma bond.
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:48.160
But the one thing that I'm always telling my friends is like, you with this is a very solitary profession, and it can be a really difficult one.
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:57.599
There's a lot of hardships and disappointments and things, um, and two-star reviews, one-star reviews, but you have to celebrate all of your wins.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:05.440
So or just like, whether that's finishing a chapter or publishing a book, um, I hope you celebrated.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.720
Because it's a lot of people don't.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.839
And like, how'd you celebrate?
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:09.279
They're like, I started the next book.
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.839
And I was like, that no, bad.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:13.519
This is not okay.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.559
Um, so anyway, that was my spiel.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:19.440
I hope you celebrated.
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:30.480
Um, to answer your question, my publishing journey, I um I started out, nobody really knows this, but I kind of started in indie.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:45.759
Um, and I one of my best friends from university, um, who's been one of my best friends for 20 some odd years um and was my roommate, is actually a really big hotshot uh indie publishing.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:52.799
And when we had both, like we both kind of discovered that each other were writing it around the same time.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.920
And she had been writing um fanfic for a while.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:01.039
And um I was just kind of plunking around with my ideas.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:04.880
Um, mostly because frankly, I was going through an awful divorce.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.680
And I was like, what do I want to what am I doing?
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:09.200
What do I want to do with myself?
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.240
So I was like, I've always like it was nano-rimo.
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.359
And I was like, I'm gonna try to sling something together.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:21.200
Um and so anyway, we I this long story.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:32.079
We put Indy published some stories together, um, where basically she had some things written and I um edited and rewrote them and broke them apart and Indy published published them.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:38.960
And I wanted to start my career writing um fantasy and historical fantasy.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:21:04.160
And um I started another little indie name for sort of gas lamp fantasy, and I wrote a couple little shorts and slung them out, and then I was going to I had just gotten started with my um like full-length novel in that genre, and I had this rom-com that I wrote and never intended really to do anything with.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:12.319
Um, and I had really always intended to go indie, but so I I kind of was like, well, let's see what happens.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:13.920
I can try to fish that out.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:31.519
And so I sent it to um 25 agents, and I was extrem like I will say almost all of the things within the publishing industry are luck-based and have, you know, it's like it's a lottery at all times.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:53.759
Um, but I was very lucky to get two offers of representation, and I took um the offer from Jane Distal, who is a titan in the field, and um I love working with her, and she I don't know, a few months later we went on sub and she found a home for my book at Avon, and I had never really expected it.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:59.359
So I was very happy, and I kind of dropped my indie stuff because I was.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.279
You know, busy with trad.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:03.440
And um yeah.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:09.039
And then that one sold and I started and then I went to the matchmaking festival and then wrote the second one.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:17.279
That's I fucking love just like a regular, like I loved writing.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.640
I wanted to be a writer.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:25.920
Didn't know like I just and then like went to an agent, like I'm just like a the that that's what we're all doing, right?
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.160
Like that's what we're all doing.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:31.519
And it wasn't like a I knew this person or I knew that person.
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.720
It's just it's all we're all in this pool together.
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:35.519
Yeah.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:40.240
And trying to just make the right decisions and see like what's gonna work for us.
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:41.039
And yeah.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:47.039
And so I just love like a I started here and now I'm here, and it's like a very regular trip.
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.440
I don't know why that's so refreshing to hear.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:54.240
I I think it's because it just like demystifies everything.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:23:03.119
Like there's no secret sauce, like there's nothing that you did where like you didn't go to like a voodoo priest and said, I want a like a book deal.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:04.400
Like you just did your thing.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.480
I also did the voodoo priestess, but I, you know, I could only go the one time.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:09.759
She was very expensive.
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:11.200
So we we did it once.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:13.039
I don't know if that's what happened.
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.440
I did say luck, but luck, you know, we did like a blood offering and stuff.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.599
So luck is all part of that, but um yeah.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:23.039
You need the luck.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.160
You never know.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:36.160
But yeah, a lot of it is just throwing spaghetti at the wall and like just seeing what happens and like getting lucky or not getting lucky, um, which is probably what I should have called my second book.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.880
Um, but uh yeah, you know, you just kind of see where you land.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:24:05.519
And I do think like um I have a lot of friends that are at all points of the publishing spectrum and have all sorts of stories, and um so many people that are much better writers than I am, that have phenomenal books that did not get enough um attention.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:13.279
And a lot of authors who are getting, you know, 10 times more attention than I am, um, who are also excellent.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:24.559
Of course, all of my friends are phenomenal writers, but it's it's really interesting to see the spectrum and to see like that this book is no better than that book.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:36.480
They, you know, like why, you know, all of it is very mystical and um hidden away and not spoken about, um, especially in trad.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:37.759
Indy is very different.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.920
I'm sure you you both know indie.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:45.759
Indie authors are very willing to share, share numbers, share money, share info.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:55.119
Um, trad um is a bit uh, I don't know, it's it's definitely a bit more hush-hush and secretive.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:04.240
And I think a lot of people are just unsure about what they're allowed to share or a little wary of pissing off their publishers.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:14.480
Um, but Chad authors don't get a lot of information from our publishers, which is one of the problems that you will find from a lot of Chad authors.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:15.759
So yeah.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:26.880
Like, is it not sharing of like the benchmark part of it or like the resources or like what part is always like a little bit ambiguous?
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:32.640
I would say the answer to that is everything uh neat.
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:36.400
We get as little information as possible.
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:45.039
And I will say, I will say that every author I know, every trad author I know has absolute horror stories.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:54.079
And I did get very lucky with Avon and with my editor, both of whom I've had a very good relationship with and a nice history with.
00:25:54.319 --> 00:26:07.440
Um but saying that, I think that there is a lot, like I think that the publishing industry purposely mystifies the whole the whole process.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:33.359
And they, I think that they purposely do this because you're working at any given point with a bunch of different authors and a bunch of different books, and I think it's a very emotional process for for an author, and I think you can potentially end up with authors that are constantly worrying, constantly asking you questions, constantly looking for validation or updates or whatever.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:39.039
And I think like as it stands, they're just trying to like they're like, we don't have time for that.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:42.079
We don't have time to coddle you, we don't have time.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:46.079
So like they just keep they keep every detail they can.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:50.960
They give you the bare minimum, and they're like, you know, it's just just keep writing.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.160
We don't want, like, we're keeping everything else secret.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:59.680
You just keep writing, you just do your thing, and also please, you know, go on social media.
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:09.200
But but like whereas if you're indie publishing, like you see, like people turn the page on their Kindle and you see it.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.240
Like you get the information immediately.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.440
Like, I don't get any information.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.759
Like, I'll be honest, I hope this doesn't give me any trouble.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.440
I didn't know what my I was never told what my publishing date was for this book.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:39.599
And I saw it on Amazon, and then I booked a publishing tour with my friends who had to like, one of them is Deidra Duncan, who's a doctor, and had to like get all of the other doctors to sign off on this holiday time, and Christy Schilling, who's busy with work and kids and everything else.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:48.960
And like, then I found out like months later, after we'd booked this whole tour, and they like secured this time off, and Deidra planned her launch around my launch.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.119
That my launch date had changed.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:52.000
Nobody told me.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.920
I found it months later on on Amazon and I was like, what happened?
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.759
And then, oh, that happens, no big deal.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:14.160
And I was like, okay, so I ended up doing I ended up doing like a pre-launch tour in July for no reason, and then now I'm gonna do another one in August because my date changed and I was not given that information.
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:23.119
We say this all the time because we talk to both Trad, Indy, even pre-published people, and about their experiences and where they're at.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:30.240
And and we always say, like, it's like they keep secrets on purpose because they don't also don't want indie authors.
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.359
Like, it's like they want to make it hard for us.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:39.599
We are like convinced that Trad publishing are the actual scammers for Indie authors when we get scams in our inbox and stuff.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.480
Stop it.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:44.400
So it all makes sense though.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.759
Like, I I totally got it.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:51.920
And they and it is like it's a business and they really yeah, they really do keep secrets.
00:28:52.160 --> 00:29:00.240
I think, like I said, I think part of that is to just keep authors that might be a little bit too much.
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:24.160
Like, like they, you know, for instance, I I'm on sub at the moment and I had some interest from an editor, and like while I haven't directly asked my agent for the name, like she she definitely doesn't offer to provide, like she doesn't, you know, like they don't really they're like, I think they're just they're like, just you just hang hang tight.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.039
We'll let you know if there's something you need to know.
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:39.759
Like, we don't want you to like call this person or show up at that person's door with like, you know, a fruit basket or like any whatever it is you're thinking, please don't do it.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.119
Like, you know, so I think like secrets are just part of the trad industry.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:52.640
And I will say most people find it very frustrating.
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:54.480
Um, yeah.
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:59.519
And I oftentimes I say to my friends, like, I think you're made for indie.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:03.279
I actually like indie gives you all of the information you have control.
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:10.319
And there are a lot of things I love about trad, and I'm not bad talking trad, but they both have their pros and cons.
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.759
And if information is what you want, then don't go to trad.
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:14.880
Go indie.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:16.240
Like, because you're not gonna get it.
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:21.680
That is the all that is like the newest version of the argument of Trad versus Indy that I we've heard.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:24.000
And we've talked to a lot of people.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:29.200
And that I we never I haven't heard that one before.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:36.799
Of if you want all the data, if you want like the full transparency of like the process and everything, then it indies your game.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:40.079
But it doesn't it doesn't make it wrong and it doesn't make it bad.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.519
It just makes it different.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:43.359
And they're very different.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:43.680
Yeah.
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.319
Yes.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.440
I love that that like just set it like it is.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:49.599
And also you have a lot more control.
00:30:49.680 --> 00:31:04.960
Oh, because that like every book has its own journey, and you're choosing your journey, and even if it's like book to book, or like finishing out that contract and going to your next thing, like maybe like ownership and control is what you want for the next book, or it's more suited for that.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:08.240
But yeah, it's like a fascinating conversation and communities.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:09.759
Like you need to have the friends.
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:10.240
Yeah.
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.119
I think, like, oh my God, what did people do?
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:20.559
Like this whole business is very difficult and um traumatic for some of my friends, I would say.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:27.119
I have a very thick skin and I'm very glad of it because like it's it's hard.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:34.799
And I I tend to find bad reviews funny, like they don't hurt me the way they hurt some of my friends, and I'm very grateful for that.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:36.720
And I tend to think like this is a business.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.480
I don't take it personally if I don't get an offer or whatever.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.799
Like, I don't, it's not, you know, it's not personal.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.440
So I'm very glad to have thick skin.
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:50.480
But like, what would we do without our author friends?
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:58.720
Like, we can't speak about this stuff to our normal friends because nobody understands and they can only listen to so much of your tirade.
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:02.400
So, like, we need Yeah, it's uh and that's why we are here.
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.000
Like, that's literally why we started this.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:13.519
It was yeah, it was like community and author friends getting to read really good books, like and getting to chat with you about them.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:21.759
Like, that's the best part is like hearing the experience, hearing how you got to where you are on top of like talking about how great the book is.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:23.279
Um it's so much fun.
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:31.039
I feel like I've I've really like since publishing, I feel like my identity has changed so much.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.559
I've always been a book nerd and I've always loved books.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:41.599
But now that I'm an author, it's it's literally all I want to talk about.
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:45.359
And I it's all I'm thinking about, and it's all that I'm doing.
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:56.880
I'm either reading or I'm listening to an audiobook, and like I find it difficult sometimes to chat with my friends that aren't in the publishing industry or at least aren't bookish.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:03.279
Like, okay, if we're reading the same books, we're for sure gonna be chatting about it, whether you want to or not, you have no choice.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:18.640
Um, but like I I don't know how, you know, I used to be an environmentalist, which I love very much, but it did not nothing in my life has consumed me whole bodied the way that writing has.
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.559
And it's all that I want to do.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.960
So without those, without those bookish friends, like I don't know who I would ever talk to.
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:32.000
I love that.
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:33.599
That's it's very true.
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:36.240
What we have to say to me, nothing.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:40.720
Yeah, like that that's been the most rewarding part about all of this.
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:45.680
Is we we get to write books, which is very solitary.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:57.200
We get to talk about books, and then we get to talk to people that wrote the books, and then we're like I'm so happy, it's yeah, joyous.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.119
I'm like, I get to be so involved in this entire thing.
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:02.319
So yay.
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:04.240
It's so fascinating.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:13.360
Like I always was a reader, but this is just like yeah, I don't know, it's a whole nother level of being a bird.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.639
And you get to have this like beautiful product, two products now.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:19.760
Second one.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:20.480
Thank you.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.079
I mean, it's awesome.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.000
And yeah, like I said, we love a good travel romance, we love a big burly man with an accent.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:28.639
Okay.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:30.079
Thank you for that.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:31.519
Thank you for your service.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:32.719
Absolutely.
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:38.960
I um traveling is my other love and hobby.
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:47.440
Um, so I just was already traveling and already having like the crazy travel stories.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:53.679
Um, and so this gave me this was like a way to combine both loves.
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:58.880
Um, but yeah, I I can't wait.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:03.039
It's it's also nice because I can go travel to a place and then write a book about it.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:04.880
It's a good excuse.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:14.480
It's it's like the most cathartic way to like yeah, and then for me it was like I have to this is the only way I can process what I just went through.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.679
You know, like all the things I saw, all the people I met.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:21.760
This is the only way that I can like process it and experience it.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.639
And this is wonderful.
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:23.280
I'm so excited.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:25.519
This is my first podcast that I'm doing about this book.
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:27.440
So I'm very excited to do it.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.280
Um, and I really appreciate it.
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.119
So this is the perfect way to support me.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:32.480
And I thank you so much.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:39.039
And I somehow directed this entire podcast into like a separate publishing spiel, which I did not intend.
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:41.760
Like, I went and got match made.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.360
I went on these crazy dates.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.719
Like the the dating game was something that I lived.
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.559
I got pulled on stage for the dating game.
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.960
So, like, that's the stuff I should have been talking about.
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:53.760
But somehow, whoops.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.599
Um, we do both here.
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:59.599
We do both dating publishing book, yes, that's what we're here for.
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.719
So marriage.
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.239
And we love it.
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.119
No, we love Avon.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:04.480
Avon's great.
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.719
We're big fans of Avon.
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:07.119
Yeah.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.079
And actually, if you could talk us up to Avon, that'd be great too.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:10.559
Yeah.
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:10.960
All right.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.000
Well, lucky book.
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:13.519
Thank you so much.
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:15.360
It's so nice to meet you both.
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:21.519
And please, anytime you want to chat, like I'm very chatty on Instagram and want to talk to everybody.
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.800
Let's talk books.
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:27.599
I'm always free for a chat or a drink or a podcast.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:29.440
We're gonna take you up on that.
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.079
So we end up random trip to Ireland.
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:32.960
Oh, absolutely.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.119
Because I just finished Ballad Falling Dragons.
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:38.400
I have nobody to talk to about it, and it's I'm gonna die.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.519
I might actually It's on my TBR! Don't talk about it! Hurry up! What are you waiting for?
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:44.559
Honestly.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:45.920
I had to read yours.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:46.639
Oh, okay.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:47.760
That's okay.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.280
This has been another episode of Marked in Manuscripts.
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.400
Thanks for listening.
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.239
Your hosts are Jenna G.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:37:00.079
Judith, Kate Wynelevich, our writer and public relations manager is Kate Wynelevich.
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.119
Music by John Wynelevich, editor, Jenna G.
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:05.519
Judith, creative direction, Jenna G.
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:09.199
Judith, and our podcast manager, Kate Wenelovich.
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:13.280
Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, all that chat.
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.320
Visit our website at MarketMadyscript.com.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:18.800
And don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.919
Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Margus and Manuscripts.
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:14.160
We are so happy to introduce you to Kat Mackenzie and her latest book, Experiments in Offline Dating, which is out today, August 25th.
00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:47.439
Um, so Kat Right's Travel Brown comes, which you know are like absolutely right up our alley, and she sweeps you off to Ireland in County Claire in her latest release, and we are so happy to have her on the podcast, not only because her book was fabulous, and it had everything we ever hoped and dreamed of, um, including baby sheep, uh, but also because Kat has a knack for very sharp banter, um, capturing local dialects, and a perfectly crafted insult.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:51.200
Um, and we are just dying laughing the entire time.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:53.280
So we're so happy that she came on.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.479
Before we dive into the episode, couple quick announcements.
00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:03.520
Um, we have an e-newsletter and we are on Substack, if you did not see that over the last couple weeks.
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:05.359
Um, so we'll be posting more there.
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:15.200
But in order to get the word out more about Marg's manuscripts, uh, feel free to follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.159
That's probably the easiest way that you can help support the pod.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.760
So thank you to everyone that has done so already.
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:29.920
Um, and buckle up, pour yourself a margarita or a Guinness, and uh enjoy our episode with Kat.
00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.959
We love you, and congratulations on an absolutely incredible book, Kat.
00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:36.079
We love you so much.
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:36.799
Cheers.
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:43.760
Thank you so much for having me.
00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:44.799
I'm very excited.
00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:45.920
We are so excited.
00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:54.159
Anybody that Avon is like, you're you would love like we've always had the best like time with Yvonne authors.
00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:55.760
So we're so excited.
00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:57.519
And we've read your book.
00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.640
Um, and we got beautiful copies of it here.
00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:04.400
I I didn't expect you to read it yet.
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:05.840
I thought, so thank you.
00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:06.799
That's exciting.
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:08.800
Oh my gosh, so for sure.
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:10.000
I'll take everything.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:16.000
If it's birds, if it's possums, if it's raccoons, bunnies, ducks, you name it.
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:24.319
I don't care if it wants to bite me or sting me, I'll take it all and try to rehab it or get it to a wildlife rehab.
00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:27.599
Or um, I used to do a lot more rehabbing, but anyway.
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.960
So you haven't written a romance about a dog rescue?
00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:32.240
Not yet.
00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:40.479
But this one, the new one, she had six cats because she has clearly a problem with fostering, and foster fails.
00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:44.400
So, you know, there's a little bit of a little bit of truth in there.
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:50.080
The cat and there is the baby sheep and the lamb and all the sheep.
00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:51.840
Yes, that's true as well.
00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.080
And the baby like sheep detective.
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:54.800
Yeah.
00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:57.919
Exactly that the baby sheep.
00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.280
Like I could feel them in my arms as I'm reading.
00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:03.840
I'm I felt like I was holding a baby sheep.
00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:08.400
I held that baby sheep that inspired writing the story.
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:16.800
And I don't know if you've noticed that um the author photo that I most frequently use is me holding a baby sheep in Ireland.
00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:18.960
And I just used it because I didn't.
00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:19.759
There it is.
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:20.800
It's this one.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.680
And I used it at first because I was like, ah, I don't know.
00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:26.080
I don't really have an official author photo.
00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:27.599
And my friends chose that one.
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:29.599
I was like, all right, we got it, baby sheep.
00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:34.400
But then, um, you know, and I I understand I should be saying lamb.
00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:36.719
I don't know why I'm saying baby sheep, but anyway.
00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:42.960
And then like now, my second book is coming out, and we're talking about lambs, and there's the scene where she's picking up the lamb.
00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:44.879
And I was like, I think I'm just gonna keep.
00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:56.240
I had these like gorgeous professional photos taken in Scotland, and I haven't used them yet because I was like, well, but this one advertises what it does in the book, you know.
00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:03.520
So yeah, I've got the the baby lamb photo, and I'm sticking with it for right now, but I love it.
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:10.719
It's it's a full circle, very meta um, completely like entrenched in this story.
00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.080
I commit we're good.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.840
I commit fully to the reason.
00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:14.400
You did.
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:20.319
Yes, and I want to just go back to Ireland with you.
00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:26.079
I've never been to Ireland, so I need like someone to take me and like hold my hand and introduce me to the baby sheep.
00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:31.439
Yeah, I have a go bag and it's already packed, and I I have flyer miles.
00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:33.600
I could be ready as soon as now.
00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.759
So I don't know how serious you are, but I'm ready to go.
00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:38.480
Always.
00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.920
Um, I'll see if the husband's cool with watching the children.
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:43.519
I mean, go ahead.
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:44.480
Or just let it be.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.399
So we uh yeah, we love a good, we love a travel romance.
00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:49.920
Oh wonderful.
00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:50.720
Thank you.
00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:52.319
We love a travel romance.
00:04:52.560 --> 00:05:04.079
Um I know from experience that you cannot write a travel romance unless you have been deeply, deeply affected and moved by the place that they're traveling to.
00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.000
So, like, what's the story?
00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.959
I want the tea on what happened in Ireland.
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:10.399
Something happened.
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:11.600
Something happened.
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:13.199
What do you think about you?
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:14.560
Um Yeah.
00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:17.600
So I used to live in the UK for about 10 years.
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:23.360
And then um I did, I lived in Galway for about three months, which was fabulous.
00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:27.360
And I absolutely love Galway and would happily live there long term.
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:31.120
Um, and for some reason it got kind of shafted in this book.
00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.839
I had always planned to have Galway scenes and then they never happened.
00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:37.120
And I was like, why the it's a short, quick thing in this one.
00:05:38.160 --> 00:06:00.959
So when I got my deal from Avon for my first bookwork in progress, basically immediately after that, because I had this there is, I should say, for any listeners that have not yet read The Blurb or my book, um, it's about a matchmaking festival that happens in Ireland every summer in County Clare.
00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.680
And that had been on my radar for a few years.
00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:13.680
And I had decided that if by chance I sold my first book, the second one was gonna have to be about this matchmaking festival.
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:28.079
And um I am a single divorcee and was like, I can absolutely in situ research this and also maybe get married to a farmer and live in Ireland.
00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:28.639
I don't know.
00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:30.319
Let's see what happens.
00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:51.120
So I I got my first book deal and then I booked a flight to return to Ireland, and I spent um, I spent about uh, I guess another two and a half months or so, and I traveled all around because when I lived in Galway, I was kind of watching the pennies.
00:06:51.360 --> 00:07:04.959
Um and so I d had done some nearby travel, but there was a lot of Ireland that I hadn't seen, and things like Giant's Causeway, which are just, you know, you I feel like even though they're huge tourist sites, you really have to go.
00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:07.199
Um, and so there were places that I hadn't been.
00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:24.720
So for for this trip, I had gone through and um, you know, kind of hit all the sites that I'd missed on the first try, and also met up with a lot of friends that I had made living in Galway, but also friends from Britain or fri I had a Swedish friend come out to see me.
00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:32.079
So I had like at any given point in these two months, people coming to meet me, and then we'd have like a little road trip or we'd go to the matchmaking festival.
00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:39.680
Um and uh I did also meet some friends at the festival that I still talked to years later.
00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:46.079
Um so yeah, that's a very long preface to the story.
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:56.399
Um, but yeah, I went for two months and I traveled around and I went to the matchmaking festival and I signed up with the second generation matchmaker, third generation matchmaker?
00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:57.439
I think he's third generation.
00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:58.240
That's terrible.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:00.079
I should uh remember.
00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:05.680
But um his name is Willie Daly, and he is a remarkable character.
00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:07.120
And he stop.
00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:17.120
He's a real life matchmaker that lives in County Clare, close to Lestunvarna, where they have this matchmaking festival.
00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:22.720
And he's somewhat who I obviously who I base Jackie on, he's world famous.
00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:30.079
I was on the news with him on some German channel where they interviewed us both for no other reason that I was nearby.
00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:36.559
But um he's his face, the bit where his face is painted on the side of the pub is a real thing.
00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:42.639
Like they've painted um Willie's face on the side of the matchmaker pub in Listunvarna.
00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:53.600
And um my matchmaker is different, his personality is quite a bit different from um from Willie's, but a lot of the same things are true.
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:59.440
Like he's just a lovely man with so many stories.
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:26.159
And actually, he has he there a bit that I thought was like I didn't want to replicate him too much in my book, but one thing that is actually like so much more fantastical than my matchmaker and my book is that um Willie has this book, this dating, old leather-bound dating magic book from his grandfather that has been passed down for generations.
00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.279
It's like tie it's all the binding is coming apart.
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:33.279
It's like tied together with like leather straps and stuff.
00:09:33.519 --> 00:10:03.279
And this thing has been through the wars, and it's like when you you fill out the matchmaking form and he like slips it in the book with all the other paperwork, and you're supposed to like put your hands on the book and kind of make a little wish for your own romantic journey, and supposedly within six months, you're supposed to find the person that you're supposed to be with, which unfortunately did not work for me yet.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.519
But we need to go do it again.
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.120
It's going to be good.
00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:08.480
It's a when does it start?
00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:09.200
It's August.
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:10.000
Does it start soon?
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.639
Is it now?
00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:12.879
It's every September, I believe.
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:14.240
I should have double-checked that.
00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.559
But yeah, I think it's the entire month of September.
00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:25.440
And basically, it originally started as for like farmers who were coming in off the harvest who wanted a wife.
00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.960
And so people from all over Ireland would come and meet these farmers.
00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:34.480
Um because I guess during during work time, you're off on your farm and you're far away from society.
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:38.000
So you would come in for the music and the dancing and maybe meet somebody.
00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:48.399
Um, and it's kind of now a lot of people come mostly from Ireland, but all over Europe and America and stuff to go and meet people and um yeah.
00:10:49.440 --> 00:11:03.279
I your book feels so genuine and authentic, and like I think it's because you had all of these exp you had so many experiences that you didn't have to like, I wonder what it's like.
00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:12.720
But no, like you you lived it and it feels like I was just reading someone's journal and it was beautiful.
00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:14.080
Thank you.
00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:28.559
I do try to so um for both of my travel rom coms, you all of the if I mention a a site or a shop or restaurant or a pub by name, then it's real and I've been there.
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.919
And usually I'll also talk about the food because that's the best, that's the point of traveling, isn't it?
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:35.440
Drink some food.
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:55.840
So um I I love it because actually I have a lot of readers get in touch and say, like, I was Googling the whole way through and like having a look at the libraries or having a look at the pub or like, you know, adding things to my own bucket list, or I'm gonna be going there in six months, and now I have like a little itinerary, and I just love that so much.
00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:02.720
Um so yeah, when I talk about the fish and chips, I have eaten those fish and chips and they were memorable.
00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:10.799
Kate, I'm getting this like wild hair where I know we need to go to Europe at some point.
00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:12.320
I've never been.
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:21.039
And I want like Cody really wants to go to like where your book was set, specifically, Kate, because he loves Normandy and all of that.
00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:34.559
So I really think we need to do like a tour de Europe with hitting all of these spots from all of these books and authors that we've interviewed and just have a riot of a time.
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.320
And I'm so ready.
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:39.360
I'm ready to go now.
00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:39.919
Are you ready?
00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:41.440
Yeah, I'll call you up.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.279
We're gonna book it, we're gonna do the thing.
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.360
No, it's so true.
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:50.399
And in yours, you like go like you hit the entire country.
00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:56.639
It is so I don't know how you crammed that all into one trip, but it was really impressive.
00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.639
Um and you just yeah, it made me miss everything.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:08.399
Well, I'm I'm fascinated because I was like reading the dialect, how you write dialect was incredible.
00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:15.039
Like I was like, her husband has to be Irish, or she has to be hearing this every single day of her to be able to like nail it so hard.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.639
But did you how do you write dialogue like that?
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.240
That's in accents and like how you do it.
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:24.159
He's very kind and generous.
00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.799
And I don't think I've received that compliment before.
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:28.480
So I thank you, and I will take that.
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.360
Um yeah, he was very real.
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:34.879
I felt like ah, when Jackie Kelly was like, Oh, you're grand.
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:44.320
I was like I guess felt like I was listening to the little the guy the little old man from um oh my god, what's that Disney Channel movie, La Luck of the Irish?
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:47.600
Like the little guy.
00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:49.200
Like I it was so real.
00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.799
It was just it was very like warm.
00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:57.600
Anyway, but yeah, like did you get feedback on it or did it just kind of come from memory?
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.440
I just I guess I I did not get any feedback on it.
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:08.320
And I um I guess I just I you know, I kind of heard it in my head and typed it out.
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:15.600
Um and I would like to hope that the Irish people of the world that read it will agree with you.
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.279
I am not sure.
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:19.519
So we will see.
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:34.159
But I have um one of my best friends Beta Red work in progress, and I had another short that was um in an Irish accent and with an Irish MMC that is was a fantasy, was a totally different thing.
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:40.960
And I was like, Jackie, will you please read this and just make sure like how does the Irish accent sound and how can I make it more realistic?
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.320
And she was like, I don't know, Kat, I can't answer that.
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:49.679
So I was like, well, I'm just gonna sling it out there and we'll see what we get.
00:14:49.840 --> 00:15:05.600
So hopefully, but I did consult two um good Irish friends about um curse words, and they are in my acknowledgments, and they um insisted that I use the term wank stain, which is a little gross.
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.720
And I have I was like, is this the one are we using this?
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.639
But I then I did it and I was like, Yes, I am.
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:15.919
I'm leaning in to wank, I'm leaning in to wank stain, and there it is in my book now.
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.879
So yeah, that's those were my Irish consultants.
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:20.399
That is a choice.
00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:25.759
It's a choice I made my regret, you know.
00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:35.279
Well, you have a lot of I wish I highlighted them or picked them out, like the internalizations that she has are so fucking hilarious.
00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:42.639
And there is a lot of I feel like you come up with your own versions of that so many times.
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.080
I do like a carefully crafted insult.
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.879
I feel like that's really what my writing is about.
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:55.120
So that's when people are like, what are your take-home messages of this beautiful novel that you wrote for years?
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.240
They don't ask me that.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.399
But they might ask, say, a Litvik author, what is the take-home message?
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.639
If they were to ask me that, I would say it's the art of the insult.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.440
That's what I'm supplying to the world.
00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.200
This is my, you know, this is my legacy.
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:12.000
I hope.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:12.799
Yeah.
00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:13.440
Yes.
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:21.600
You are gifting the you are this is a gift that you're bestowing upon the world, and people better be fucking grateful.
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.120
So all those Wangstains out there better be grateful.
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:26.159
That's all I'm saying.
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.600
Please don't quote me.
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.799
That is the soundbite for the whole episode.
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.639
That is going on socials.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:39.679
It's all we need with our little logo right on top.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:41.279
Gonna get canceled.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:42.879
Kat McKinsey, canceled.
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.240
Marks and manuscript.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:49.759
I just like I just put out a reel this week where I like fuck was at the core of it.
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.720
And I know I'm gonna be hearing from my mother.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.720
It's okay.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.080
She's getting used to the idea.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.120
No, my poor mom is always like, where did we go wrong?
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.399
What happened?
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:02.879
Like, I don't, what can I say?
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:08.160
You know that part of the show where other podcasts try to convince you that your mattress is out to get you?
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:12.000
Well, this is that part, except we skipped the mattress and brought you a book.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.480
So, welcome to the book break.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.359
And since it's our very first one, we picked a really good one.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.920
Today's book is Liar Liar, the debut romance from Lucy Lee.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:28.000
Lena is broke, jobless, and the accidental winner of a hundred thousand dollar love story contest.
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:33.279
The fine print, she needs a real couple to claim the money, and she is extremely single.
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.640
So she talks Mac, her favorite banter buddy, from Liars Anonymous into fake dating her.
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.759
And the lie does not stay a lie for very long.
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:48.160
So if you live for fake dating, forced proximity, and a slow burn of secret pining, this one's got your name on it.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.240
It's open door and steamy.
00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.279
Um, about three uh chili peppers, if you will.
00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:00.160
Our favorite line from the book Quote Of all the lies I've ever heard before, I love you is my favorite.
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:01.839
Liar Liar is out now.
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.200
Link is in the show notes.
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.960
I'm so curious too about like just the writing and publishing journey.
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.039
Cause I didn't I didn't look up too much about your background or anything.
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.000
Like, I just want to I want to ask the questions here and hear it.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.319
But yeah, like how did you get this?
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.400
Is the second book with Avon.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.079
What was the journey?
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.920
And you, Kate, you just released a book last month, is that right?
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.920
So that's very exciting.
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:26.880
Congratulations.
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.200
And I same thing, travel.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:34.960
I hope you celebrate because I with all I have a lot of author friends.
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:39.359
I'm very lucky to say that I now have a lot of author friends, mostly because we trauma bond.
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:48.160
But the one thing that I'm always telling my friends is like, you with this is a very solitary profession, and it can be a really difficult one.
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:57.599
There's a lot of hardships and disappointments and things, um, and two-star reviews, one-star reviews, but you have to celebrate all of your wins.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:05.440
So or just like, whether that's finishing a chapter or publishing a book, um, I hope you celebrated.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.720
Because it's a lot of people don't.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.839
And like, how'd you celebrate?
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:09.279
They're like, I started the next book.
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.839
And I was like, that no, bad.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:13.519
This is not okay.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.559
Um, so anyway, that was my spiel.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:19.440
I hope you celebrated.
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:30.480
Um, to answer your question, my publishing journey, I um I started out, nobody really knows this, but I kind of started in indie.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:45.759
Um, and I one of my best friends from university, um, who's been one of my best friends for 20 some odd years um and was my roommate, is actually a really big hotshot uh indie publishing.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:52.799
And when we had both, like we both kind of discovered that each other were writing it around the same time.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.920
And she had been writing um fanfic for a while.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:01.039
And um I was just kind of plunking around with my ideas.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:04.880
Um, mostly because frankly, I was going through an awful divorce.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.680
And I was like, what do I want to what am I doing?
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:09.200
What do I want to do with myself?
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.240
So I was like, I've always like it was nano-rimo.
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.359
And I was like, I'm gonna try to sling something together.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:21.200
Um and so anyway, we I this long story.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:32.079
We put Indy published some stories together, um, where basically she had some things written and I um edited and rewrote them and broke them apart and Indy published published them.
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:38.960
And I wanted to start my career writing um fantasy and historical fantasy.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:21:04.160
And um I started another little indie name for sort of gas lamp fantasy, and I wrote a couple little shorts and slung them out, and then I was going to I had just gotten started with my um like full-length novel in that genre, and I had this rom-com that I wrote and never intended really to do anything with.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:12.319
Um, and I had really always intended to go indie, but so I I kind of was like, well, let's see what happens.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:13.920
I can try to fish that out.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:31.519
And so I sent it to um 25 agents, and I was extrem like I will say almost all of the things within the publishing industry are luck-based and have, you know, it's like it's a lottery at all times.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:53.759
Um, but I was very lucky to get two offers of representation, and I took um the offer from Jane Distal, who is a titan in the field, and um I love working with her, and she I don't know, a few months later we went on sub and she found a home for my book at Avon, and I had never really expected it.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:59.359
So I was very happy, and I kind of dropped my indie stuff because I was.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.279
You know, busy with trad.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:03.440
And um yeah.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:09.039
And then that one sold and I started and then I went to the matchmaking festival and then wrote the second one.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:17.279
That's I fucking love just like a regular, like I loved writing.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.640
I wanted to be a writer.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:25.920
Didn't know like I just and then like went to an agent, like I'm just like a the that that's what we're all doing, right?
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.160
Like that's what we're all doing.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:31.519
And it wasn't like a I knew this person or I knew that person.
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.720
It's just it's all we're all in this pool together.
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:35.519
Yeah.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:40.240
And trying to just make the right decisions and see like what's gonna work for us.
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:41.039
And yeah.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:47.039
And so I just love like a I started here and now I'm here, and it's like a very regular trip.
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.440
I don't know why that's so refreshing to hear.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:54.240
I I think it's because it just like demystifies everything.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:23:03.119
Like there's no secret sauce, like there's nothing that you did where like you didn't go to like a voodoo priest and said, I want a like a book deal.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:04.400
Like you just did your thing.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.480
I also did the voodoo priestess, but I, you know, I could only go the one time.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:09.759
She was very expensive.
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:11.200
So we we did it once.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:13.039
I don't know if that's what happened.
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.440
I did say luck, but luck, you know, we did like a blood offering and stuff.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.599
So luck is all part of that, but um yeah.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:23.039
You need the luck.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.160
You never know.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:36.160
But yeah, a lot of it is just throwing spaghetti at the wall and like just seeing what happens and like getting lucky or not getting lucky, um, which is probably what I should have called my second book.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.880
Um, but uh yeah, you know, you just kind of see where you land.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:24:05.519
And I do think like um I have a lot of friends that are at all points of the publishing spectrum and have all sorts of stories, and um so many people that are much better writers than I am, that have phenomenal books that did not get enough um attention.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:13.279
And a lot of authors who are getting, you know, 10 times more attention than I am, um, who are also excellent.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:24.559
Of course, all of my friends are phenomenal writers, but it's it's really interesting to see the spectrum and to see like that this book is no better than that book.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:36.480
They, you know, like why, you know, all of it is very mystical and um hidden away and not spoken about, um, especially in trad.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:37.759
Indy is very different.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.920
I'm sure you you both know indie.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:45.759
Indie authors are very willing to share, share numbers, share money, share info.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:55.119
Um, trad um is a bit uh, I don't know, it's it's definitely a bit more hush-hush and secretive.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:04.240
And I think a lot of people are just unsure about what they're allowed to share or a little wary of pissing off their publishers.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:14.480
Um, but Chad authors don't get a lot of information from our publishers, which is one of the problems that you will find from a lot of Chad authors.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:15.759
So yeah.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:26.880
Like, is it not sharing of like the benchmark part of it or like the resources or like what part is always like a little bit ambiguous?
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:32.640
I would say the answer to that is everything uh neat.
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:36.400
We get as little information as possible.
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:45.039
And I will say, I will say that every author I know, every trad author I know has absolute horror stories.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:54.079
And I did get very lucky with Avon and with my editor, both of whom I've had a very good relationship with and a nice history with.
00:25:54.319 --> 00:26:07.440
Um but saying that, I think that there is a lot, like I think that the publishing industry purposely mystifies the whole the whole process.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:33.359
And they, I think that they purposely do this because you're working at any given point with a bunch of different authors and a bunch of different books, and I think it's a very emotional process for for an author, and I think you can potentially end up with authors that are constantly worrying, constantly asking you questions, constantly looking for validation or updates or whatever.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:39.039
And I think like as it stands, they're just trying to like they're like, we don't have time for that.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:42.079
We don't have time to coddle you, we don't have time.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:46.079
So like they just keep they keep every detail they can.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:50.960
They give you the bare minimum, and they're like, you know, it's just just keep writing.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.160
We don't want, like, we're keeping everything else secret.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:59.680
You just keep writing, you just do your thing, and also please, you know, go on social media.
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:09.200
But but like whereas if you're indie publishing, like you see, like people turn the page on their Kindle and you see it.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.240
Like you get the information immediately.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.440
Like, I don't get any information.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.759
Like, I'll be honest, I hope this doesn't give me any trouble.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.440
I didn't know what my I was never told what my publishing date was for this book.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:39.599
And I saw it on Amazon, and then I booked a publishing tour with my friends who had to like, one of them is Deidra Duncan, who's a doctor, and had to like get all of the other doctors to sign off on this holiday time, and Christy Schilling, who's busy with work and kids and everything else.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:48.960
And like, then I found out like months later, after we'd booked this whole tour, and they like secured this time off, and Deidra planned her launch around my launch.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.119
That my launch date had changed.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:52.000
Nobody told me.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.920
I found it months later on on Amazon and I was like, what happened?
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.759
And then, oh, that happens, no big deal.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:14.160
And I was like, okay, so I ended up doing I ended up doing like a pre-launch tour in July for no reason, and then now I'm gonna do another one in August because my date changed and I was not given that information.
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:23.119
We say this all the time because we talk to both Trad, Indy, even pre-published people, and about their experiences and where they're at.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:30.240
And and we always say, like, it's like they keep secrets on purpose because they don't also don't want indie authors.
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.359
Like, it's like they want to make it hard for us.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:39.599
We are like convinced that Trad publishing are the actual scammers for Indie authors when we get scams in our inbox and stuff.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.480
Stop it.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:44.400
So it all makes sense though.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.759
Like, I I totally got it.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:51.920
And they and it is like it's a business and they really yeah, they really do keep secrets.
00:28:52.160 --> 00:29:00.240
I think, like I said, I think part of that is to just keep authors that might be a little bit too much.
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:24.160
Like, like they, you know, for instance, I I'm on sub at the moment and I had some interest from an editor, and like while I haven't directly asked my agent for the name, like she she definitely doesn't offer to provide, like she doesn't, you know, like they don't really they're like, I think they're just they're like, just you just hang hang tight.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.039
We'll let you know if there's something you need to know.
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:39.759
Like, we don't want you to like call this person or show up at that person's door with like, you know, a fruit basket or like any whatever it is you're thinking, please don't do it.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.119
Like, you know, so I think like secrets are just part of the trad industry.
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:52.640
And I will say most people find it very frustrating.
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:54.480
Um, yeah.
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:59.519
And I oftentimes I say to my friends, like, I think you're made for indie.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:03.279
I actually like indie gives you all of the information you have control.
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:10.319
And there are a lot of things I love about trad, and I'm not bad talking trad, but they both have their pros and cons.
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.759
And if information is what you want, then don't go to trad.
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:14.880
Go indie.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:16.240
Like, because you're not gonna get it.
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:21.680
That is the all that is like the newest version of the argument of Trad versus Indy that I we've heard.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:24.000
And we've talked to a lot of people.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:29.200
And that I we never I haven't heard that one before.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:36.799
Of if you want all the data, if you want like the full transparency of like the process and everything, then it indies your game.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:40.079
But it doesn't it doesn't make it wrong and it doesn't make it bad.
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.519
It just makes it different.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:43.359
And they're very different.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:43.680
Yeah.
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.319
Yes.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.440
I love that that like just set it like it is.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:49.599
And also you have a lot more control.
00:30:49.680 --> 00:31:04.960
Oh, because that like every book has its own journey, and you're choosing your journey, and even if it's like book to book, or like finishing out that contract and going to your next thing, like maybe like ownership and control is what you want for the next book, or it's more suited for that.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:08.240
But yeah, it's like a fascinating conversation and communities.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:09.759
Like you need to have the friends.
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:10.240
Yeah.
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.119
I think, like, oh my God, what did people do?
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:20.559
Like this whole business is very difficult and um traumatic for some of my friends, I would say.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:27.119
I have a very thick skin and I'm very glad of it because like it's it's hard.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:34.799
And I I tend to find bad reviews funny, like they don't hurt me the way they hurt some of my friends, and I'm very grateful for that.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:36.720
And I tend to think like this is a business.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.480
I don't take it personally if I don't get an offer or whatever.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.799
Like, I don't, it's not, you know, it's not personal.
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.440
So I'm very glad to have thick skin.
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:50.480
But like, what would we do without our author friends?
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:58.720
Like, we can't speak about this stuff to our normal friends because nobody understands and they can only listen to so much of your tirade.
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:02.400
So, like, we need Yeah, it's uh and that's why we are here.
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.000
Like, that's literally why we started this.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:13.519
It was yeah, it was like community and author friends getting to read really good books, like and getting to chat with you about them.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:21.759
Like, that's the best part is like hearing the experience, hearing how you got to where you are on top of like talking about how great the book is.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:23.279
Um it's so much fun.
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:31.039
I feel like I've I've really like since publishing, I feel like my identity has changed so much.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.559
I've always been a book nerd and I've always loved books.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:41.599
But now that I'm an author, it's it's literally all I want to talk about.
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:45.359
And I it's all I'm thinking about, and it's all that I'm doing.
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:56.880
I'm either reading or I'm listening to an audiobook, and like I find it difficult sometimes to chat with my friends that aren't in the publishing industry or at least aren't bookish.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:03.279
Like, okay, if we're reading the same books, we're for sure gonna be chatting about it, whether you want to or not, you have no choice.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:18.640
Um, but like I I don't know how, you know, I used to be an environmentalist, which I love very much, but it did not nothing in my life has consumed me whole bodied the way that writing has.
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.559
And it's all that I want to do.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.960
So without those, without those bookish friends, like I don't know who I would ever talk to.
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:32.000
I love that.
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:33.599
That's it's very true.
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:36.240
What we have to say to me, nothing.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:40.720
Yeah, like that that's been the most rewarding part about all of this.
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:45.680
Is we we get to write books, which is very solitary.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:57.200
We get to talk about books, and then we get to talk to people that wrote the books, and then we're like I'm so happy, it's yeah, joyous.
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.119
I'm like, I get to be so involved in this entire thing.
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:02.319
So yay.
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:04.240
It's so fascinating.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:13.360
Like I always was a reader, but this is just like yeah, I don't know, it's a whole nother level of being a bird.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.639
And you get to have this like beautiful product, two products now.
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:19.760
Second one.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:20.480
Thank you.
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.079
I mean, it's awesome.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.000
And yeah, like I said, we love a good travel romance, we love a big burly man with an accent.
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:28.639
Okay.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:30.079
Thank you for that.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:31.519
Thank you for your service.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:32.719
Absolutely.
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:38.960
I um traveling is my other love and hobby.
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:47.440
Um, so I just was already traveling and already having like the crazy travel stories.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:53.679
Um, and so this gave me this was like a way to combine both loves.
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:58.880
Um, but yeah, I I can't wait.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:03.039
It's it's also nice because I can go travel to a place and then write a book about it.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:04.880
It's a good excuse.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:14.480
It's it's like the most cathartic way to like yeah, and then for me it was like I have to this is the only way I can process what I just went through.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.679
You know, like all the things I saw, all the people I met.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:21.760
This is the only way that I can like process it and experience it.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.639
And this is wonderful.
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:23.280
I'm so excited.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:25.519
This is my first podcast that I'm doing about this book.
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:27.440
So I'm very excited to do it.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.280
Um, and I really appreciate it.
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.119
So this is the perfect way to support me.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:32.480
And I thank you so much.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:39.039
And I somehow directed this entire podcast into like a separate publishing spiel, which I did not intend.
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:41.760
Like, I went and got match made.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.360
I went on these crazy dates.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.719
Like the the dating game was something that I lived.
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.559
I got pulled on stage for the dating game.
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.960
So, like, that's the stuff I should have been talking about.
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:53.760
But somehow, whoops.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.599
Um, we do both here.
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:59.599
We do both dating publishing book, yes, that's what we're here for.
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.719
So marriage.
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.239
And we love it.
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.119
No, we love Avon.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:04.480
Avon's great.
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.719
We're big fans of Avon.
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:07.119
Yeah.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.079
And actually, if you could talk us up to Avon, that'd be great too.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:10.559
Yeah.
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:10.960
All right.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.000
Well, lucky book.
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:13.519
Thank you so much.
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:15.360
It's so nice to meet you both.
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:21.519
And please, anytime you want to chat, like I'm very chatty on Instagram and want to talk to everybody.
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.800
Let's talk books.
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:27.599
I'm always free for a chat or a drink or a podcast.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:29.440
We're gonna take you up on that.
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.079
So we end up random trip to Ireland.
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:32.960
Oh, absolutely.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.119
Because I just finished Ballad Falling Dragons.
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:38.400
I have nobody to talk to about it, and it's I'm gonna die.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.519
I might actually It's on my TBR! Don't talk about it! Hurry up! What are you waiting for?
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:44.559
Honestly.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:45.920
I had to read yours.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:46.639
Oh, okay.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:47.760
That's okay.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.280
This has been another episode of Marked in Manuscripts.
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.400
Thanks for listening.
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.239
Your hosts are Jenna G.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:37:00.079
Judith, Kate Wynelevich, our writer and public relations manager is Kate Wynelevich.
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.119
Music by John Wynelevich, editor, Jenna G.
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:05.519
Judith, creative direction, Jenna G.
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:09.199
Judith, and our podcast manager, Kate Wenelovich.
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:13.280
Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, all that chat.
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.320
Visit our website at MarketMadyscript.com.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:18.800
And don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
