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What does it really take to lead without burning out?
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In this episode of View from the Top, I sit down with Aaron Newkirk to talk about the inner work that most leaders ignore but can't afford to.
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We dig into career transitions, energy management, and why alignment isn't a soft skill.
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It's the foundation of success.
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So if you've ever wondered how to redefine success and lead with purpose, this conversation will challenge you to think differently.
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Let's dive in.
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Welcome, Erin, to the View from the Top podcast.
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Hi, Jamie.
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Thanks for having me.
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New podcast, new year.
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New Year, same guest.
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So for those of you who listen to the Superpower Success podcast, Erin was my last guest when I was ready to kind of wrap it up.
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She's my support animal.
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I love you.
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And I wanted you to be the last guest.
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And then I was like, well, of course, you need to be my first guest on the view top as I as I revamp this.
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And you've been with me along on this journey of surviving greatness and just this idea of kind of the phases we go through and this kind of climb of the mountain and getting to the top, which will talk about your story.
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And I think this is so important.
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I I think it's always been important, but it's really important right now.
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And you're in the executive circles of just the burnout and the people that are striving, but they're not really even sure what they're striving for anymore.
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And I just have so many of those conversations.
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So that's part of our discussion today is just like sharing your story, but maybe some lessons and some wisdom that you've learned and knowing there's a lot more lessons, right, that are coming on your next climb.
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But what are those points of wisdom?
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And so when you think back on your success story up to this point, the climb, the mountain that you've been climbing, just give us a quick background of what's that look like?
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What are some of those kind of pivotal moments that you remember on that climb?
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That's great.
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I mean, thank you again for having me, Janie.
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This is such an important conversation because I feel like through conversation and community is how we are able to pause and really do more and not necessarily have to go through motions, like do more with soul and intention.
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So thank you for having me.
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Um, okay, so my 60 seconds.
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I've actually been working on this a lot lately because I am having a pause in my career, but really, so it's perfect timing, I guess, to have this conversation.
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I would say that looking back, my climb has always been about brand building, team building, really taking great ideas that solve real wants and needs and jobs to do, desires in the world, and how to bring those forward in a really shared experience.
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And I've done that at General Mills.
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I was there for many, many years, working on brands like Cheerios and Old El Paso and Pillsbury.
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Left corporate world to start my own tech startup called Breadstamp.
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And that was highest of highs and lowest of lows as a tech entrepreneur.
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Split my time between Minneapolis and New York, where I found a lot more traction when it came to females in technology, and then also just the whole notion of consumer technology was really bigger on the coast before it was bigger here in Minneapolis.
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I sold that after growing it to a few million users, to Taylor Corporation here in Minnesota, which is one of the largest graphic arts and printing companies in the world.
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So they're really interested in that mobile technology.
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So that was that was great.
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And then I went right into uh healthcare, health insurance, trying to figure out that space again in the in the hopes that you know, deep insights, consumer insights could build great business.
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Quickly left that after about 16 months, realized that health insurance was not a space for me.
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I'm sure I'm the only person that's ever said that on your podcast.
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Right.
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Um, you know, and then I from there, um, I left to to do more startup work and advisory work.
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And through that, I met a human who was looking for the next uh head of marketing and brand strategy at Caribou Coffee.
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So I left my sounding chapter to go back into corporate for about six years.
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And I just recently left in this year, and now I'm exploring the great frontier of what what does that next step look like?
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Yeah.
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I what I love about your story, a couple of things is you've done corporate to your own, back to corporate, back to your own, you know, thing.
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And I think I know for me, like I I've gotten to a point where I'm like, I don't even know if anyone would hire me anymore.
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So this is kind of my own plan because I've been so far out of the corporate world.
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I mean, we work with them, right?
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But not kind of being in corporate.
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So did each of those moments, because they are a big transition, there's so many people that's sitting in corporate going, like, wow, she's done this twice now, right?
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Meaning she's taken the leap, good to go back and bet on herself again.
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Did each of those feel like its own mountain?
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Or does it like, like, what are the ups and downs of that feel like?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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You know, to me, it's always been it's been less about the straight line or the straight climb, which I don't, I mean, I've never climbed a mountain like you have, Jamie.
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But like I would imagine with switchbacks and even just reading your book, Surviving Greatness, you talk a little bit about this.
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Like, there is no such thing as just going straight up, right?
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There just isn't.
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And I and also I don't, I wouldn't have wanted that because even though maybe on paper it looks great, it doesn't fill your soul.
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It doesn't fill your cup.
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And you have to make mistakes and you have to figure out, you know what, this isn't the best way to do it, and switch back.
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And so I think of it as actually a body of work.
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I don't think of it as a I think we talked about this in the podcast, the last podcast.
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I don't think of it as so much as a ladder.
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I know people are playing with different words for it.
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I think actually the idea of climbing a mountain, I mean, the the the mountain itself is gonna have many different dynamics to it, right?
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And it'll require different skills.
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If you think of the analogy of it's gonna have weather conditions and terrain conditions, and right, there's a there's a lot of different things, altitude, all of these things that impact you in different ways and might set you on a different course.
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But what I love about you is you look at your career as a portfolio of things that all lean on, that all lean on your strengths instead of tied to a um a title, which I think is hard.
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As humans, we're status and ego is a thing, right?
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Uh getting to be a CMO or a CFO or a CEO is like something people reach for.
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But I also think sometimes those titles come with things like you said that don't fill your soul.
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Right.
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Yeah, it's interesting because when you think about titles, the only time that I've ever felt both the blessing and the burden of a title is in trying to explain who I am and what I do in an organization.
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Oh, and so I think it's just it's more about that than anything else, at least for me.
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I mean, my happiest times have been when I haven't had a title and it that's been doing work.
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Yeah.
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So if someone who obviously you're well known, but from the outside that looks at your journey, what's something that maybe people wouldn't know about that, what that journey's been like or a certain part of that?
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That's a great question.
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You know, on paper, it does look like I've done a bunch of different things in a bunch of different ways.
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And so I feel like for most people, and and maybe this is even part of the question that you asked, is that it may feel really what's the word?
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Mercurial, like very like hot, you know, just the fact that there's been like moments where it's flamed out or had a big rise.
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And for me, what I have to guard against always is just that slow burn, that cognitive dissonance, the detachment of feeling almost like not, well, not kind of like feeling aligned with the value that I bring, who I am, what my head is thinking, what my heart is feeling, what my gut is knowing, and then how that comes back out in terms of the articulation of the work.
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And so when I've been at my best, I've been very aligned, aligned with the leadership, aligned with the mission and the purpose.
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You know, at the core, companies really, I believe, are four things: their purpose, their people, their process, and their platforms, right?
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And that's how we know what the work is to do and do the work.
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And so when one of those things, I mean, those are big areas.
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I'm not trying to down belittle it or downsize it, it's very complicated.
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But when you when those things aren't working together, there's that's and that's when you see lack of growth.
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You see burnout, right?
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You see that dissonance.
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And so I've just been, as I get older and I do more of this work, I start to realize that sitting down on Monday morning and talking about how I worked all weekend and comparing stories with the person next to me, right?
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It's just not a thing anymore.
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Like, really, actually, the best work and the best leaders are not sharing those stories because they are doing what they need to do to align before they show up.
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That's a ball.
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I love that.
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Is there a moment in the climb where you, you know, you remember it was kind of one of those big obstacle moments or those moments where everything might have looked great on the outside, everyone else, right, to the rest of the world, but on the inside something was stirring or brewing or, you know, didn't feel as good for you?
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And what did that, what did that moment look like?
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What did you do?
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How'd you get through?
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Well, I've had those moments.
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I mean, I don't think it's I'm trying to think if I can share one that's not necessarily, I don't, I don't want to, you know, again, alignment.
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It's a two-way street.
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I'm not trying to put anyone down.
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I've had them.
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Let's just say that.
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And I've had them quite regularly, but truly what I do about that and where I've gotten past it or through it is through sitting down and grounding in reality, right?
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Taking the time to ground in reality, opening to possibilities so that I can lead with love and then take aligned action.
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And that's a four-step process that truly is how I'm moving forward.
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And I realize when I've been doing my best work, when I've had those moments of, well, this is just not right.
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Like this feels awful for everyone.
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It's just actually slowing down and doing that work.
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You can do them anytime, anywhere.
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Right.
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So this is a this hit me, and obviously we know this.
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Your your message here is that at those moments of misalignment, you didn't blame someone else, you did the work.
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And I think that's the missing piece sometimes.
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As as we we grow and we climb and we do the next thing and we get the next title.
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I don't think as many leaders, I mean, you're like the queen of inner work, like that's where you inspire me to do the work.
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So, like you, but I think this message is important, is you've been doing that all along.
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Many of us get to the top, which is my story.
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Like, I just grinded it out for years and years and years and got to the top and went, You've got to be kidding me.
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Like, this is what I've been slaving for, and I don't even like it.
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Yeah.
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And then I started doing the inner work because I needed it for my own just well-being.
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So I'd love for you to just share like what was the thing that got you?
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Is it always been part of you as a family, like that got you recognize the inner work instead of thinking someone else was gonna solve it for you?
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Great question.
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I am very blessed to have a very self-aware mother who, I mean, at the earliest age, like instead of taking me to go buy a sweater or a new top, and then you know, we go back to school, she'd be like, first, we're gonna actually go and um get a facial.
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Oh, and and I say that and it sounds, by the way, super bougie and privileged.
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I totally realize that.
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Um, but her her whole point was if you don't feel good, if you don't feel comfortable in your skin, and that was her articulation for it, it doesn't matter where we go shopping and what you do, you know.
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And so when I turned 40, she gifted me the experience of a retreat, my first retreat.
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And, you know, I'm a huge fan of Jamie's retreats, as she knows, but um, but it was my first retreat before you were doing retreats.
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Yeah.
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And I learned so much in that time where, you know, I was, I really learned how to meditate.
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And this is almost 15 years ago, right?
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I was at the height of fear and vulnerability with my startup.
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Um, and so to have someone gift me that moment is life-changing.
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And so I really have to credit my mom for it.
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I mean, she's still doing it today laughing because I'm going on a um another learning adventure, and I'm doing it through a center that she was the one who showed me, you know, taught me about.
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So I know not everyone has a mom like mine, like Diane McCormick.
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I mean, and trust me, she's a psychologist.
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So there were really good parts of that, like that, and some really hard parts about that, because I never got away with just saying I was fine or my day was okay, or yeah.
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It's kind of brutaling growing up in a household like that.
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But it, you know, I think if there's one thing that I've always tried to do, then pass it on to my team and my son and my husband, and you know, just that gift of inner work.
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And that I mean, most people who know me know that that's kind of the stage I've moved into is sharing that meaning, I always believe I need to go first, but then I also need to not gatekeep the things I'm learning if someone else can use them.
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And I love your you know, I hope I am that mom actually, because I mean, Olivia and I have been on, you know, retreats.
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I've gifted her.
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I mean, we just had a whole crystal meditation thing last night.
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Like, I but it at at almost 21, I'm trying to give her the tools to live in this world.
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Yep.
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And that's I think the message for leaders is it doesn't matter if you're 50 or 60 or whatever age you are, like you need those tools.
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Yeah.
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You have to, because this world is a very different world than the world we grew up in, or when I was 21.
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I didn't have the stressors that this generation has, and we're dealing with it too.
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And I think most leaders don't do that work.
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So, what I hear in your story, and I just want to clarify this, is there wasn't like a moment of burnout, a moment where you're like, I mean, you hear of health crisis and like all these different things that happen that make you reset.
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You kind of always had it and you've just been building the tool set.
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Yeah.
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Thankfully, thankfully I had not had it yet.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Let's keep it going.
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But you're right.
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I think there's been a lot of preventative care.
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Yeah.
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And teaching.
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And you know, it's so interesting, Jeannie, because I think about it, you know, obviously we do it with our children, and I think that's amazing.
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But I also feel a huge and it's a joyful responsibility to create those containers for team, you know.
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So, like in my office, you come into my office and there's crystals and there were canby, you know, like you could grab like one of maybe both, maybe one or the other.
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But I just, it's so important to just take a moment, even if it's even if people have their own beliefs and their own rituals, whatnot, but just to take a moment to actually have a conversation about what those rituals are.
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We uh we just had our annual planning a few weeks ago and we each day, so we had three days, we were off site, and each day we started with a five-minute meditation and grounding, right?
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And and it was just it was a lead some on someone's phone, but it was the most wonderful because you think about you're flying in in the morning and you're like, okay, let's put my strategy hat on.
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And I think most of us don't ground ourselves in the morning, or we jump onto the call before we, you know, just jump into emails.
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We don't do that.
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We just come from whatever we were doing in the morning, right?
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Coming in sideways to work.
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So, what are those things for you now, right?
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If you're kind of leading the way, and I agree with the word responsibility, once you know these tools, it is a responsibility to share them with people who are ready for them, whatever that looks like.
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Right.
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What's that look like for you now?
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What are what are those things that your go-tos to kind of manage your own energy?
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Yeah, sure.
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I'm happy to talk about them.
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I mean, the one I'll start with the one that is accessible at all times and literally takes a minute, and that is just deep breathing, right?
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And it's so simple.
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I know people talk about it, but at the core, all of these things that we're talking about just get you back to mindfulness, right?
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Like being in the moment.
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And I think that you can actually move much faster.
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So this isn't just a soft skill, like this is actually a skill to learn that can be very productive.
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What you're doing is you're you're taking away the performativeness of it and making it productive, which I love.
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But just that the deep breath and like truly deep breathing.
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I notice still, even after doing this work, and I'll talk about some other modalities too, but even after, you know, almost 15 years of this work, I still will catch myself holding my breath, like when I'm in a board meeting.
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And like take a breath because I'm like, I don't think I was even breathing or I was shallow breathing for so long.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And that's like one of the worst things that we can do.
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And actually, again, it doesn't help our brains do anything productive, right?
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And I mean, there's so much research on that, right?
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Like on your cardiovascular system, your your everything.
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It helps you just function better.
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Right.
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And so the idea of just taking deep breaths.
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:21.360
So now, whenever I catch myself holding my breath, I not only say to myself, okay, breathe, I literally sit count to three and I take three breaths.
00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:31.120
If I can, if I'm by myself, I close my eyes, I put my one hand on my heart, one hand on my gut, and I just actually feel it for three breaths, three to five, if I can swing it.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:33.840
But we all know what it's like when we're like crunching on something.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:41.519
Or if I'm in a meeting and I catch myself holding my breath, then I just breathe intentionally really deeply and I'll, you know, look, look normal on the outside.
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:43.600
Literally oxygen back to your brain again.
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:44.799
Totally, totally.
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.759
So that's that is like I think that is just the biggest thing.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:54.960
If we could all just promise each other that we're gonna breathe more, then you know, I think business and the world would be a much better, kinder place.
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:59.840
What I do kind of so that's like my that's what I do to sort of go throughout the day is I feel like I need it.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:07.200
But I typically almost always start my morning with a meditation, some sort of learning, definitely a cup of coffee.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.920
I will forever be a cup of coffee, girl, hot coffee, team hot in the morning.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:22.559
And if I can during the golden hour, it's just such a beautiful time, you know, which is that time like that where, you know, just before it starts to get light, it's kind of this moment of golden and pinks.
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.440
And um, so I'll try and find a place that's just really restorative to do that.
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.599
Sometimes my meditations are five minutes, sometimes they're 20 minutes, you know, it doesn't, there's no like right or wrong.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:43.440
But after I meditate, have my cup of coffee, do a quick little learning or reflection, then I will typically journal and just go through and be like, okay, what am I noticing today?
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:43.680
Right.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:44.799
That's the grounding piece.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:46.799
How am I opening myself up to possibilities?
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:47.920
You know, what's interesting?
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:49.519
What am I, what am I curious about?
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.640
What questions am I gonna actually solve today or go after today?
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:54.960
You know, really not solve, but ask, right?
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.200
And that even goes back to the responsibility of the team.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.319
And then going back to that, like leading with love, how can I show up for other people?
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:04.720
Starting with myself, how can I show up for myself?
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.839
How can I show up for my friends, my family, and my team?
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.160
And then from there, like what are the three to five aligned actions I'm gonna take today?
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.079
And that's that's what I journal every day.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.480
So I do have a pretty firm ritual, but it just depends on how much time I have to do it.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:40.000
Well, and I do something less firm, but I have the, I think I talked about it, but the five minute yes journal, because I can't do like just free writing, but it just is three things I'm grateful for, three things that would make today great, you know, affirmations, and it's quick, but it goes through your process, probably just a little bit quicker, but it does set the tone for your day.
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.160
It's kind of like this is what I want to achieve.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:49.519
And those three things you that would make today great typically aren't like major business accomplishments, it's more of small things.
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.480
And then at the end of the day, you close it out with five minutes as well.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:19:01.680
So I love kind of bookending my day with that because it makes the it puts the intention on it, but it also makes the things that maybe wouldn't seem things to celebrate.
00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:02.160
Right.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.079
Like it makes me celebrate them.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:05.039
I I love that.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:05.440
Yes.
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.400
I mean, and you know, to be honest, I have to get better at the recap at the end of the day because you are supposed to bookend it, like you do.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:18.079
I usually just think of one thing I'm grateful for because I'm the person who loves to read, and that's when I find that I love to read is at night.
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:24.000
So I have to literally like shut myself down and be like, I'm getting up tomorrow morning at 6:45, no matter what.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.680
I know it's kind of late for some people, but that's my you know go-to.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:29.440
And I don't want to be tired all day.
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.079
So like I have to, I have to kind of close it out.
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:33.279
Yeah, I love that.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:39.200
As you I want to talk a little bit about the perspective shifts as you've kind of gone through your journey that you've gone through.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:45.599
Is there a belief or mindset that you had to unlearn to become the leader that you are today?
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:46.720
Have to leave them behind.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.319
And what's one that sticks out for you?
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:48.960
For sure.
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:53.519
I mean, I I feel like I've always been creative and curious, always.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:59.519
And I was often shut down for that, especially earlier in my career, right?
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:04.319
Because creativity wasn't building the spreadsheet.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:13.359
You know, creativity was not something that you could necessarily create full attribution in the financial attribution model brain.
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.119
As I've gotten older and, you know, I develop more skills.
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:24.559
Obviously, I've balanced that a little bit so that I know my audience and can speak to my audience and think through different elements of business.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:37.920
Um it's it's interesting because I feel like what I've done in my career has been taken the creativity and probably built more structure around it so that it was a little bit more palatable for corporate.
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:38.319
Yeah.
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.039
I love that.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:48.559
I I think to say the same thing about the curiosity is in a large environment that has politics at play, curiosity can be misread so easily.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:59.680
And so that's where I would say I typically had a new job in corporate every 18 months because I would either I would just get like poking in too many people's areas and I'd be like, all right, time to go do something else because I'm getting in trouble here.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:00.160
Right.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:06.000
As a builder, like that curiosity can come across the wrong way when it's just a natural tendency, right?
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:07.200
To want to understand things.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:07.599
Yes.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.559
I'm laughing because pretty much every job I've had.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:22.960
Yes, pretty much every job I've had, or every boss that I've ever had, has had to pause because questions for me usually is for me, it's about building and communicating.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:28.000
And when I feel like communication or teamwork isn't really happening, I'll lead with questions.
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:35.279
And so sometimes it's misinterpreted as like getting into other people's business or, you know, and it's it's actually just more about sharing ideas.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.480
And that's one of the reasons that I love the idea of grounding.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:43.039
And I've honestly, when my team would ask questions, that to me was like joyous, right?
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.680
Because I was like, great, ask the uncomfortable questions.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.559
Let's have the uncomfortable conversations, let's do it.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.440
We're gonna come up with better, better, better, better solutions with the conversation.
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.480
But it is people who are not self aware, threatened.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:57.599
It's it's a real big deal.
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.480
People that that haven't done the work that doesn't Feel good.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.400
And we've all had leaders like that.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.160
I mean, they just, and they're not bad people.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:05.599
They just haven't done the work.
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:16.319
And so when someone is doing the work and comes in, right, and is in that growth, that can cause some of this transformation or this right outgrowing of roles and people and companies.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:23.440
How do you define success sitting here today versus uh 10 years ago, 15 years ago?
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.119
How has that changed for you?
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.160
Well, I mean, I think financially I'm in a much better place, which is I'm grateful for, right?
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:38.799
You know, I've done the things, saved the money, done some um, still, you know, not done working and putting on that retirement hat by any stretch of the amount of it.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.279
But you have some freedom in that in the family.
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.119
And so now I'm really thinking about what I want to do next and who I want to do it with.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.000
And the who is even more important than the what.
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:50.400
Yep.
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.079
And so that that is truly, and I will and I love working.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.960
I love what I do.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.240
You know, I mean, for me, it's it's been a way that I've actually parented.
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:03.839
It's a way that I I mean my brother and I are super close because he's in business too, and we'll hop on and have the calls.
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:08.480
So I, you know, I don't I don't believe that you necessarily have to separate it out.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:13.279
Like I think that fulfillment is really the end goal, not balance.
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:14.240
Yeah.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:17.839
And for me, I have more, you know, if I look at my plate, right?
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:29.200
As you look at, you know, putting one more thing on your plate, like for me, it's actually just about making sure I have what what I want on my plate at all times and being really mindful about what I say yes to why I say no too.
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:29.440
Yeah.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:34.799
For me, it's so different words, but similar is is what gives me energy versus what doesn't.
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.160
Because I'm good at a number of things that I could say yes to.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:38.400
Yeah.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.880
They just don't reciprocate the energy, right?
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.200
So my energy is one way, and I am a people pleaser to a fault.
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:50.720
And so I will say yes to all the things and to help all the people, and then I have I deplete my own energy.
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:51.119
Yeah.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:55.200
Jamie, I feel like one of the best things now you've talked a lot about CEO, right?
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:56.799
And chief energy officer.
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.559
You are your own chief energy officer.
00:23:58.720 --> 00:23:59.519
And I love that.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:00.720
It's so important.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:08.000
So, what's something that you value today that maybe at the beginning of your career you didn't value at the same level?
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:20.000
I think the fact that earlier in my career, I really felt like I needed to be on all the time, you know, that I couldn't take a moment off, or that, you know, there were there was only one way to work.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:27.039
Maybe that's a better way of saying it, you know, and the one way to work was to answer emails seconds after they land on your unboxed.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.519
You know, it's interesting because I'm working on a project right now that is a brand building project.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.119
I'm really excited about it.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.440
And I just got back from New York City before the holiday break.
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:48.240
And it was so fun to be in New York knowing that I was working on this project and just opening up my eyes to everything that was around and taking it all in and thinking about like, okay, this is what's happening.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:49.839
Like, this is the latest and greatest in marketing.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:58.880
This is the latest and greatest in brand building, happening, you know, at a pivotal time, which is holiday season in New York City and the Upper East Side, you know, and it was like, it was like a candy land.
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:05.440
So everything that I did, I was able to actually take some of that and put it back into thinking about the project I was working on.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:10.319
I would have never ever thought that that could be considered work when I was younger.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.559
Well, that lesson, I think it's it is so important.
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:20.000
And it's not just, I mean, that it's also the quiet time that you, the walks in nature that where you can get that clarity in different ways.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.400
We think it's just push a little harder, right?
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:22.640
Right?
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:31.200
Grind a little bit more, put a few more hours in, and we're gonna get the the output that we want when reach a point where that no longer is the correct formula.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:31.680
Right.
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:32.319
Totally.
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.160
And that's and that is honestly one of the reasons I looked when I'm a retreat because it was exactly that.
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:39.599
Like that was a moment where it was like stillness and going back and taking the time.
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:48.000
And from that, I there were some, you know, great connections I made, which is I know other other focus, but also that became because I was more connected with myself.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:48.480
Yes.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.720
And no one, you know, this is the interesting work.
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:54.720
And I think this is the theme for the podcast is no one's gonna tell you you have to do that work.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:55.200
Right.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:57.599
They might tell you you have to answer more emails, right?
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:03.200
Or make more spreadsheets or do that one more work thing, but no one's gonna tell you you have to do the inner work.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:05.680
Like that's that's why I want to tell these stories, right?
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.279
That's the most important piece.
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.519
So if we move to action, you know, like like what do we do?
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.480
You've told our story, you've you've shared some things.
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:23.680
What advice would you give to a high achieving leader who's listening, who's feeling just at a pivot point, maybe that stuck feeling, which to me isn't a bad feeling.
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.240
It's just an indication that you need to shift something.
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.160
What would you tell them to do first?
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:33.279
First, stop, pause, which it goes back to a lot of what we're talking about now.
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:42.160
But the very first thing is just to ground in the reality, to notice what you're feeling, notice why you're feeling it, notice what's going on around you, spend time in that.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.200
I promise you, answers are in the grounding.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.039
Now, I think about one of the most successful campaigns, it's very recent.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:53.599
I talk about this all the time, like on stages and in rooms and with marketing students.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:27:04.079
It was one that we did a couple summers ago for Caribou Coffee, where we created a dating show that wound up, you know, blowing out results for the new products that we launched.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:09.759
And I'll tell you what, yes, it was a creative solution and we worked with an amazing agency, an amazing team.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.880
But what came in it is grounding ourselves in the reality.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.680
What do we trying to reach?
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:17.359
What do these humans care about?
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:17.839
Right.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:18.240
Right.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:24.319
How do we how do how can we actually work with them in the channels and the modalities that they're most interested in?
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:25.920
All of that came through the grounding.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:31.119
And I think that that is instead of actually just moving forward, just taking a moment to pause.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:31.839
Simple.
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.799
So that's something everyone who's listening right now can just do.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:35.759
For sure.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.599
What's something you wish someone had told you?
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.519
I call it base camp, right?
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:51.279
When you were starting the climb of the mountain, what's the thing that you would now tell somebody, like my daughter Olivia, who you know very well, what would you tell her in this moment that you wish you knew back then?
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:54.480
Don't compromise who you are and what you believe in.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.720
You know, kindness and goodness always what's it's just, you know, it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:05.839
So the I think the the only time I'd ever failed at something is when I really lost myself.
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.680
Let's just let that sit for a second.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.920
I think that's it's true.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:15.039
The only time I feel like I've failed is when I've gone against my intuition, right?
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:21.519
Where it's told me this doesn't feel right, there's something here I should be asking different questions, and I did it anyway.
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.160
And it led to some pretty big mistakes, specifically as an entrepreneur.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:31.440
And I think most of us as leaders are almost that corporate, and nothing against corporate.
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.039
I'm just gonna say that corporate model almost suppresses that you know.
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.839
Like you said, if you just stop and took a breath, you know what the right answer is.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.799
It's just the world is telling you the answer is different.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:50.319
And it's very hard without that inner work to stand up to the world and say, no, this is the right answer for me right now.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.079
And I I think that is the next step for a lot of these leaders.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:29:01.599
Leaders that are listening, what's one message of hope, maybe from hearing your story that they can take away from this in the time?
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.240
Yeah, from the time we're living in.
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:06.799
I mean, yes, I know it's so interesting.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.000
I was just going through 2025 year in review on LinkedIn, right?
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.160
And like waiting, everyone, and everyone was talking about 2025, the big dumpster fire and all the things.
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:19.279
And I'm like, well, first of all, being uncomfortable is okay.
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.440
In fact, it's good for you, you know, from time to time.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:30.960
And I think what's exciting about the time that we're in is there has never been more opportunity to take that moment to pause.
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:40.640
There are so many tools, apps, whatnot, that you can use to actually just make sure that you get your head on straight, you know, that you really ground, that you're really strategic about the actions that you take.
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:41.920
So the tools that are there.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:50.960
I also feel like there's never been a better time with all the technology at our fingertips to create and to create personalized experiences at scale.
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.200
You know, I just I again, I'll I'll talk about New York.
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:57.519
I just came back and I stayed at One Hotels for the first time, which is a Starwood property.
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:12.160
Um, they believe, you know, it's mid-tier luxury, so it's not like four seasons, you know, but um, but it definitely was interesting because they they believe that you can be both luxurious and have eco-friendly experiences, right?
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:23.759
And it was just the whole thing from the moment that I booked my room, was able to sign up for my preferences, the experiences that I had with every single person, including the technology.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.000
So again, going back to purpose, people, cross-sense platforms.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:39.119
Um, you know, the fact that like there isn't a bottle of water anywhere in the building, not just because they are trying to avoid plastic, but because they filter every drop at the hotel.
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:43.359
So whether you're drinking out of the tap, whether you're washing your hair, whatever you're doing, it's all filtered water, right?
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:49.680
Just these little touches of being able to personalize at scale, like as a business person, excuse, it's really exciting.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:50.079
Yeah.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:51.119
Well, I love that.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:52.880
Like there's creation in that.
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.440
That's the creativity that you talked about, which we all have.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:57.200
It just comes out in different forms.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:08.160
But I think it's a great reminder for all of us that if you're navigating this transformation, which isn't a bad thing, it just means change, that sometimes you got to get back to being curious, being a beginner again.
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:08.720
Yes.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.079
And yes, being curious.
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:12.559
Yeah.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:12.880
Yeah.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.440
And not feeling like, why don't I know this?
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:16.720
Or why does this feel different?
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:21.200
I think there's a lot of judgment that can come up during that transformation that does us no good.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.799
Okay, Jamie, you probably know this quote.
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:23.599
What is the quote?
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:27.680
Like the the most important thing isn't to be right.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:32.799
The most important thing is to get it right.
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:33.200
No.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.880
We're gonna have to put this part out.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:36.319
We'll look it up, we'll put it in a show.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:44.799
There is no, but there is this like really amazing quote about it's not about being right, it's about um like asking the questions to get to right.
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.960
Like that's yeah, it's about the journey.
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.599
It's about the journey.
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:48.880
Not about the destination.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:57.839
I mean, that's kind of the it's and this is the thing I I want all leaders to hear is just there's nothing broken when you feel the way you're feeling right now.
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:03.359
So if there's anyone who's feeling stuck, who's feeling burnt out, who's feeling there's a lesson in here.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:06.559
And I know it's the last thing you probably want to hear, but it doesn't mean something's wrong.
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:12.000
It actually means your body, the way you're feeling, is reacting to your current situation.
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.000
It's reacting to something that doesn't feel aligned somewhere in your values.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.240
And you talked about the values at the very beginning.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:26.240
And I think if more leaders did personal values exercises and really understood how they could live those out in whatever role they're in, right?
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:33.599
A stay-at-home mom to an entrepreneur, to a corporate executive, you can live those values out in whatever role.
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:34.160
For sure.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.920
In whatever stage of life.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:44.319
And I think that back to your grounding word that you used quite a bit here is like that's an opportunity to get grounded back in who you are and what really matters to you.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.519
And I don't think enough of us, myself included, do that often enough.
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:47.839
Yeah.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.519
We don't back to that place.
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:54.319
Well, you said something really important, I believe, in that things don't happen to you, they happen for you.
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.559
Like you that's how that's hard.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:07.359
When you're in it, it's hard to believe that, except for every story that I tell, you know, that I hear from other leaders is the moments that were that fiery moments, right?
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:15.200
The moments where they were like, oh my gosh, what is going on are the moments that they recount as being the most key milestones in their journal.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.279
It's not the easy path, the easy days that we remember.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.920
It's the ones that are kind of forged in fire and pressurize us a little bit.
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:27.039
So I just appreciate you sharing your story.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:37.200
I I want to kind of wrap with where can people connect with you, find out more about what you've done, what you're doing, um, about the book and how the book is coming along.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:38.160
Common.
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:44.319
But what's the easiest way for them to connect and learn a little bit more about you and maybe follow your some of your inspiration?
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.400
LinkedIn is probably the most consistent.
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.079
I also am developing a lot of this stuff on www.arinnewkirk.com.
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.599
But um yeah, but I mean LinkedIn is is great.
00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:01.599
I I love going on LinkedIn and seeing what other people are doing, commenting and parting of a storm.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.559
So that's where I you can probably find me the most consistently.
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.640
And then some bonus round questions.
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:07.839
So to wrap this up.
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:11.280
What's your go-to song when you need to reset your own energy?
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:16.960
I'm gonna cheat because I actually, for me, I don't have like a pump it up song.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.159
I have a resettle in my body playlist.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.960
But I I use Spotify and I like songs like crazy.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:30.239
So I will just go into my liked songs and just play the first song that that shows up for me.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.920
Yeah, and it's usually like something I know the words to, so I could really feel it.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:35.920
Um, but for me it's about playlists.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.039
Like I it's and it's so interesting because I just went through and yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.599
So I had different ones for different times and different seasons.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:47.599
And like when I go away for a weekend with friends, I'll create a playlist that, you know, so easy, obviously.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:50.159
But um, so for me, it's more about the playlist.
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.800
Sharing some of these playlists with me from Spotify.
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:56.559
Okay, you will call me or give me whatever your Spotify name is.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:56.880
Okay.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:04.079
What's a book or a podcast or something that you took in that really changed your perspective when you needed that shift?
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.440
I know that most of your followers have read your books and follow you.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:11.599
So I will say that truly culture climb was huge.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:18.000
You know this because you helped me actually, Keystone helped me work through some elements when I was doing some teamwork.
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:21.519
So culture climb and surviving greatness are are huge in my list.
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:26.880
I the the other, so I follow authors, I tend to follow people versus particular books.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:34.320
Lisa Sun wrote a book called Grappitas, and it's about um different superpowers for confidence.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:39.119
And I think that's one area that I've had to do a lot of work in is how to be a more confident person.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:43.679
I'm a pretty confident leader, I'm a pretty confident business person, I'm pretty confident in my curiosity and creativity.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:50.880
But when it comes down to it, it's, you know, it's always easier for me to kind of work behind a brand than necessarily work as Aaron Yucker.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.400
You know this as a personal brand.
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.079
Uh I that book was huge for me.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:03.599
It just helped me understand how I can actually be myself and feel confident in most situations and what I need to work on too.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.159
I love that the authenticity of success.
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:12.159
I mean, that's what that really is the definition is to be yourself as you grow and evolve, right?
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:13.280
And have these new challenges.
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:14.239
So I love that.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:22.000
Okay, and the last question if you could, I'm gonna give you a billboard on a major highway, and you could put one message on it for every executive to see.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:23.039
What would you put on it?
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:24.800
Alignment is not a soft skill.
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:25.840
I love it.
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.400
I don't know.
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:28.480
I had to work on that one a little bit, maybe, Jamie.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.800
But I will say there was something about alignment.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.320
Maybe you can help workshop with me.
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.960
There is something about alignment, and it is not a soft skill.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:43.280
Like it is key to everything, and it's your alignment, you, yes, your king, your to the strategy, all of the things.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:44.880
And we all know that feeling.
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:49.119
You started off this conversation talking about those moments of misalignment.
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:50.159
It's friction.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:58.239
You can feel it when you're like have momentum, and then all of a sudden it's a person or a meeting or something that like slows it down.
00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.679
You can feel that friction.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.639
And I love the idea of it not being about the people, right?
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:05.920
It's about the people not being aligned in some way.
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:14.400
Yeah getting careful about what that means, because I think there's a whole different level of conversation we can have when we're searching for alignment and we just don't have it.
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:15.599
Because then it's about us.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:16.079
Right.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:17.760
We can fix this, right?
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:21.519
We can't fix other people, we can't force other people to do that work, right?
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:38.239
You know, I yes, because if it's if you're no longer the person that others feel alignment with, or if you're not feeling alignment with the others, I would love for us to be able to be like as a society, us, you know, be able to say, okay, let's take a beat here and understand this a little bit more.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.480
And then let's part as friends, you know.
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:42.639
I I just think there's so much to alignment.
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:44.559
It's just, it's, it's kind of everything.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:45.280
It is.
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:46.000
It is.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:48.239
Well, you are everything to me.
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:51.280
I appreciate you way beyond the podcast.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.079
I appreciate your support, your friendship, and your mentorship.
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:59.920
Um, and I'm really glad to have you be my first guest here and to share your wisdom with our listeners.
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.840
So thank you for being here and for doing this.
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:02.320
Thank you.
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:03.199
It's an honor.
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:08.480
Success isn't just about reaching the top, it's about what you discover once you're there.
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:15.760
Here on View from the Top, we explore the stories, the setbacks, and the inner work that redefine what success really means.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.880
If this episode resonated with you, I'd encourage you to share it with someone who might need it right now.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:26.480
And to stay connected, make sure and subscribe so you get notified when we release new episodes.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:32.480
You can connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, or visit my website at jamietace.com.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.559
All of the links are in the show notes.
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.119
Thank you for listening to View from the Top.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.159
We'll see you at the top and beyond.
00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.839
What does it really take to lead without burning out?
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:12.320
In this episode of View from the Top, I sit down with Aaron Newkirk to talk about the inner work that most leaders ignore but can't afford to.
00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:18.559
We dig into career transitions, energy management, and why alignment isn't a soft skill.
00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:20.559
It's the foundation of success.
00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:27.760
So if you've ever wondered how to redefine success and lead with purpose, this conversation will challenge you to think differently.
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:29.199
Let's dive in.
00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.960
Welcome, Erin, to the View from the Top podcast.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:34.000
Hi, Jamie.
00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:35.039
Thanks for having me.
00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:36.719
New podcast, new year.
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:38.479
New Year, same guest.
00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:46.000
So for those of you who listen to the Superpower Success podcast, Erin was my last guest when I was ready to kind of wrap it up.
00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:47.679
She's my support animal.
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:48.399
I love you.
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:50.000
And I wanted you to be the last guest.
00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:54.960
And then I was like, well, of course, you need to be my first guest on the view top as I as I revamp this.
00:00:55.039 --> 00:01:06.239
And you've been with me along on this journey of surviving greatness and just this idea of kind of the phases we go through and this kind of climb of the mountain and getting to the top, which will talk about your story.
00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.079
And I think this is so important.
00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.280
I I think it's always been important, but it's really important right now.
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:19.040
And you're in the executive circles of just the burnout and the people that are striving, but they're not really even sure what they're striving for anymore.
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:21.439
And I just have so many of those conversations.
00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:31.519
So that's part of our discussion today is just like sharing your story, but maybe some lessons and some wisdom that you've learned and knowing there's a lot more lessons, right, that are coming on your next climb.
00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.000
But what are those points of wisdom?
00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:42.959
And so when you think back on your success story up to this point, the climb, the mountain that you've been climbing, just give us a quick background of what's that look like?
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.560
What are some of those kind of pivotal moments that you remember on that climb?
00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:47.280
That's great.
00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:49.120
I mean, thank you again for having me, Janie.
00:01:49.280 --> 00:02:01.840
This is such an important conversation because I feel like through conversation and community is how we are able to pause and really do more and not necessarily have to go through motions, like do more with soul and intention.
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:03.680
So thank you for having me.
00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:06.640
Um, okay, so my 60 seconds.
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:15.280
I've actually been working on this a lot lately because I am having a pause in my career, but really, so it's perfect timing, I guess, to have this conversation.
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:33.360
I would say that looking back, my climb has always been about brand building, team building, really taking great ideas that solve real wants and needs and jobs to do, desires in the world, and how to bring those forward in a really shared experience.
00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.039
And I've done that at General Mills.
00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:39.840
I was there for many, many years, working on brands like Cheerios and Old El Paso and Pillsbury.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:44.800
Left corporate world to start my own tech startup called Breadstamp.
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.919
And that was highest of highs and lowest of lows as a tech entrepreneur.
00:02:50.159 --> 00:03:03.199
Split my time between Minneapolis and New York, where I found a lot more traction when it came to females in technology, and then also just the whole notion of consumer technology was really bigger on the coast before it was bigger here in Minneapolis.
00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:13.280
I sold that after growing it to a few million users, to Taylor Corporation here in Minnesota, which is one of the largest graphic arts and printing companies in the world.
00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.439
So they're really interested in that mobile technology.
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:16.719
So that was that was great.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:27.680
And then I went right into uh healthcare, health insurance, trying to figure out that space again in the in the hopes that you know, deep insights, consumer insights could build great business.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:33.199
Quickly left that after about 16 months, realized that health insurance was not a space for me.
00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:36.479
I'm sure I'm the only person that's ever said that on your podcast.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:36.960
Right.
00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:43.919
Um, you know, and then I from there, um, I left to to do more startup work and advisory work.
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:52.400
And through that, I met a human who was looking for the next uh head of marketing and brand strategy at Caribou Coffee.
00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:57.759
So I left my sounding chapter to go back into corporate for about six years.
00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:04.639
And I just recently left in this year, and now I'm exploring the great frontier of what what does that next step look like?
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:05.120
Yeah.
00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:13.039
I what I love about your story, a couple of things is you've done corporate to your own, back to corporate, back to your own, you know, thing.
00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:18.560
And I think I know for me, like I I've gotten to a point where I'm like, I don't even know if anyone would hire me anymore.
00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.720
So this is kind of my own plan because I've been so far out of the corporate world.
00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:24.079
I mean, we work with them, right?
00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:25.920
But not kind of being in corporate.
00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:33.360
So did each of those moments, because they are a big transition, there's so many people that's sitting in corporate going, like, wow, she's done this twice now, right?
00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.879
Meaning she's taken the leap, good to go back and bet on herself again.
00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.040
Did each of those feel like its own mountain?
00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.879
Or does it like, like, what are the ups and downs of that feel like?
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:44.319
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:53.120
You know, to me, it's always been it's been less about the straight line or the straight climb, which I don't, I mean, I've never climbed a mountain like you have, Jamie.
00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:58.079
But like I would imagine with switchbacks and even just reading your book, Surviving Greatness, you talk a little bit about this.
00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.560
Like, there is no such thing as just going straight up, right?
00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:01.279
There just isn't.
00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:08.560
And I and also I don't, I wouldn't have wanted that because even though maybe on paper it looks great, it doesn't fill your soul.
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:09.600
It doesn't fill your cup.
00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:14.639
And you have to make mistakes and you have to figure out, you know what, this isn't the best way to do it, and switch back.
00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:20.079
And so I think of it as actually a body of work.
00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:24.079
I don't think of it as a I think we talked about this in the podcast, the last podcast.
00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:25.680
I don't think of it as so much as a ladder.
00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.000
I know people are playing with different words for it.
00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:36.639
I think actually the idea of climbing a mountain, I mean, the the the mountain itself is gonna have many different dynamics to it, right?
00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:39.519
And it'll require different skills.
00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:51.439
If you think of the analogy of it's gonna have weather conditions and terrain conditions, and right, there's a there's a lot of different things, altitude, all of these things that impact you in different ways and might set you on a different course.
00:05:51.600 --> 00:06:03.600
But what I love about you is you look at your career as a portfolio of things that all lean on, that all lean on your strengths instead of tied to a um a title, which I think is hard.
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:06.959
As humans, we're status and ego is a thing, right?
00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:12.959
Uh getting to be a CMO or a CFO or a CEO is like something people reach for.
00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:19.519
But I also think sometimes those titles come with things like you said that don't fill your soul.
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:20.160
Right.
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:31.759
Yeah, it's interesting because when you think about titles, the only time that I've ever felt both the blessing and the burden of a title is in trying to explain who I am and what I do in an organization.
00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:36.079
Oh, and so I think it's just it's more about that than anything else, at least for me.
00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:41.600
I mean, my happiest times have been when I haven't had a title and it that's been doing work.
00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:42.079
Yeah.
00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:52.079
So if someone who obviously you're well known, but from the outside that looks at your journey, what's something that maybe people wouldn't know about that, what that journey's been like or a certain part of that?
00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:53.199
That's a great question.
00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.680
You know, on paper, it does look like I've done a bunch of different things in a bunch of different ways.
00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:04.319
And so I feel like for most people, and and maybe this is even part of the question that you asked, is that it may feel really what's the word?
00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:13.040
Mercurial, like very like hot, you know, just the fact that there's been like moments where it's flamed out or had a big rise.
00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:39.839
And for me, what I have to guard against always is just that slow burn, that cognitive dissonance, the detachment of feeling almost like not, well, not kind of like feeling aligned with the value that I bring, who I am, what my head is thinking, what my heart is feeling, what my gut is knowing, and then how that comes back out in terms of the articulation of the work.
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:48.480
And so when I've been at my best, I've been very aligned, aligned with the leadership, aligned with the mission and the purpose.
00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:57.519
You know, at the core, companies really, I believe, are four things: their purpose, their people, their process, and their platforms, right?
00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.120
And that's how we know what the work is to do and do the work.
00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.680
And so when one of those things, I mean, those are big areas.
00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.120
I'm not trying to down belittle it or downsize it, it's very complicated.
00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:14.800
But when you when those things aren't working together, there's that's and that's when you see lack of growth.
00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.279
You see burnout, right?
00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:18.560
You see that dissonance.
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:30.560
And so I've just been, as I get older and I do more of this work, I start to realize that sitting down on Monday morning and talking about how I worked all weekend and comparing stories with the person next to me, right?
00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.080
It's just not a thing anymore.
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:40.639
Like, really, actually, the best work and the best leaders are not sharing those stories because they are doing what they need to do to align before they show up.
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:41.840
That's a ball.
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:43.279
I love that.
00:08:43.600 --> 00:09:00.960
Is there a moment in the climb where you, you know, you remember it was kind of one of those big obstacle moments or those moments where everything might have looked great on the outside, everyone else, right, to the rest of the world, but on the inside something was stirring or brewing or, you know, didn't feel as good for you?
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.120
And what did that, what did that moment look like?
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:03.919
What did you do?
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:04.879
How'd you get through?
00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:06.480
Well, I've had those moments.
00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:13.440
I mean, I don't think it's I'm trying to think if I can share one that's not necessarily, I don't, I don't want to, you know, again, alignment.
00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:14.559
It's a two-way street.
00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:16.000
I'm not trying to put anyone down.
00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:16.720
I've had them.
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:17.519
Let's just say that.
00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:28.720
And I've had them quite regularly, but truly what I do about that and where I've gotten past it or through it is through sitting down and grounding in reality, right?
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:35.679
Taking the time to ground in reality, opening to possibilities so that I can lead with love and then take aligned action.
00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:41.360
And that's a four-step process that truly is how I'm moving forward.
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:46.960
And I realize when I've been doing my best work, when I've had those moments of, well, this is just not right.
00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:49.440
Like this feels awful for everyone.
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:51.279
It's just actually slowing down and doing that work.
00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:52.639
You can do them anytime, anywhere.
00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:53.120
Right.
00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.919
So this is a this hit me, and obviously we know this.
00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:02.879
Your your message here is that at those moments of misalignment, you didn't blame someone else, you did the work.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.919
And I think that's the missing piece sometimes.
00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:10.240
As as we we grow and we climb and we do the next thing and we get the next title.
00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:15.440
I don't think as many leaders, I mean, you're like the queen of inner work, like that's where you inspire me to do the work.
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:19.039
So, like you, but I think this message is important, is you've been doing that all along.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:21.519
Many of us get to the top, which is my story.
00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:27.679
Like, I just grinded it out for years and years and years and got to the top and went, You've got to be kidding me.
00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:31.120
Like, this is what I've been slaving for, and I don't even like it.
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:31.519
Yeah.
00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:36.799
And then I started doing the inner work because I needed it for my own just well-being.
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.879
So I'd love for you to just share like what was the thing that got you?
00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:47.519
Is it always been part of you as a family, like that got you recognize the inner work instead of thinking someone else was gonna solve it for you?
00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:48.480
Great question.
00:10:48.639 --> 00:11:04.080
I am very blessed to have a very self-aware mother who, I mean, at the earliest age, like instead of taking me to go buy a sweater or a new top, and then you know, we go back to school, she'd be like, first, we're gonna actually go and um get a facial.
00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:07.360
Oh, and and I say that and it sounds, by the way, super bougie and privileged.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:08.399
I totally realize that.
00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:18.879
Um, but her her whole point was if you don't feel good, if you don't feel comfortable in your skin, and that was her articulation for it, it doesn't matter where we go shopping and what you do, you know.
00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:25.200
And so when I turned 40, she gifted me the experience of a retreat, my first retreat.
00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:31.840
And, you know, I'm a huge fan of Jamie's retreats, as she knows, but um, but it was my first retreat before you were doing retreats.
00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:32.159
Yeah.
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:37.279
And I learned so much in that time where, you know, I was, I really learned how to meditate.
00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.320
And this is almost 15 years ago, right?
00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:45.440
I was at the height of fear and vulnerability with my startup.
00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:50.159
Um, and so to have someone gift me that moment is life-changing.
00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.240
And so I really have to credit my mom for it.
00:11:52.320 --> 00:12:03.360
I mean, she's still doing it today laughing because I'm going on a um another learning adventure, and I'm doing it through a center that she was the one who showed me, you know, taught me about.
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.559
So I know not everyone has a mom like mine, like Diane McCormick.
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:08.000
I mean, and trust me, she's a psychologist.
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:16.720
So there were really good parts of that, like that, and some really hard parts about that, because I never got away with just saying I was fine or my day was okay, or yeah.
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.600
It's kind of brutaling growing up in a household like that.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:28.799
But it, you know, I think if there's one thing that I've always tried to do, then pass it on to my team and my son and my husband, and you know, just that gift of inner work.
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:41.360
And that I mean, most people who know me know that that's kind of the stage I've moved into is sharing that meaning, I always believe I need to go first, but then I also need to not gatekeep the things I'm learning if someone else can use them.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:47.759
And I love your you know, I hope I am that mom actually, because I mean, Olivia and I have been on, you know, retreats.
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:48.639
I've gifted her.
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.919
I mean, we just had a whole crystal meditation thing last night.
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:58.240
Like, I but it at at almost 21, I'm trying to give her the tools to live in this world.
00:12:58.399 --> 00:12:58.720
Yep.
00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:07.039
And that's I think the message for leaders is it doesn't matter if you're 50 or 60 or whatever age you are, like you need those tools.
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:07.600
Yeah.
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:12.559
You have to, because this world is a very different world than the world we grew up in, or when I was 21.
00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:17.120
I didn't have the stressors that this generation has, and we're dealing with it too.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.759
And I think most leaders don't do that work.
00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:31.200
So, what I hear in your story, and I just want to clarify this, is there wasn't like a moment of burnout, a moment where you're like, I mean, you hear of health crisis and like all these different things that happen that make you reset.
00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.480
You kind of always had it and you've just been building the tool set.
00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:34.799
Yeah.
00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:36.879
Thankfully, thankfully I had not had it yet.
00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:37.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:39.039
Let's keep it going.
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:39.679
But you're right.
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.840
I think there's been a lot of preventative care.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:42.240
Yeah.
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:43.440
And teaching.
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:50.320
And you know, it's so interesting, Jeannie, because I think about it, you know, obviously we do it with our children, and I think that's amazing.
00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:57.120
But I also feel a huge and it's a joyful responsibility to create those containers for team, you know.
00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:05.039
So, like in my office, you come into my office and there's crystals and there were canby, you know, like you could grab like one of maybe both, maybe one or the other.
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:16.240
But I just, it's so important to just take a moment, even if it's even if people have their own beliefs and their own rituals, whatnot, but just to take a moment to actually have a conversation about what those rituals are.
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:26.559
We uh we just had our annual planning a few weeks ago and we each day, so we had three days, we were off site, and each day we started with a five-minute meditation and grounding, right?
00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:35.679
And and it was just it was a lead some on someone's phone, but it was the most wonderful because you think about you're flying in in the morning and you're like, okay, let's put my strategy hat on.
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:42.720
And I think most of us don't ground ourselves in the morning, or we jump onto the call before we, you know, just jump into emails.
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:43.600
We don't do that.
00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.000
We just come from whatever we were doing in the morning, right?
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:47.840
Coming in sideways to work.
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.000
So, what are those things for you now, right?
00:14:50.080 --> 00:15:00.080
If you're kind of leading the way, and I agree with the word responsibility, once you know these tools, it is a responsibility to share them with people who are ready for them, whatever that looks like.
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:00.399
Right.
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:02.320
What's that look like for you now?
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.080
What are what are those things that your go-tos to kind of manage your own energy?
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:06.960
Yeah, sure.
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:08.399
I'm happy to talk about them.
00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:15.840
I mean, the one I'll start with the one that is accessible at all times and literally takes a minute, and that is just deep breathing, right?
00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:17.039
And it's so simple.
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:22.879
I know people talk about it, but at the core, all of these things that we're talking about just get you back to mindfulness, right?
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:23.840
Like being in the moment.
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.759
And I think that you can actually move much faster.
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:31.200
So this isn't just a soft skill, like this is actually a skill to learn that can be very productive.
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:36.639
What you're doing is you're you're taking away the performativeness of it and making it productive, which I love.
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:40.480
But just that the deep breath and like truly deep breathing.
00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:50.399
I notice still, even after doing this work, and I'll talk about some other modalities too, but even after, you know, almost 15 years of this work, I still will catch myself holding my breath, like when I'm in a board meeting.
00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:55.759
And like take a breath because I'm like, I don't think I was even breathing or I was shallow breathing for so long.
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:56.080
Yes.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:56.320
Yeah.
00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.320
And that's like one of the worst things that we can do.
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:03.360
And actually, again, it doesn't help our brains do anything productive, right?
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.679
And I mean, there's so much research on that, right?
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.759
Like on your cardiovascular system, your your everything.
00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.679
It helps you just function better.
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:12.320
Right.
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:15.120
And so the idea of just taking deep breaths.
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:21.360
So now, whenever I catch myself holding my breath, I not only say to myself, okay, breathe, I literally sit count to three and I take three breaths.
00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:31.120
If I can, if I'm by myself, I close my eyes, I put my one hand on my heart, one hand on my gut, and I just actually feel it for three breaths, three to five, if I can swing it.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:33.840
But we all know what it's like when we're like crunching on something.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:41.519
Or if I'm in a meeting and I catch myself holding my breath, then I just breathe intentionally really deeply and I'll, you know, look, look normal on the outside.
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:43.600
Literally oxygen back to your brain again.
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:44.799
Totally, totally.
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.759
So that's that is like I think that is just the biggest thing.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:54.960
If we could all just promise each other that we're gonna breathe more, then you know, I think business and the world would be a much better, kinder place.
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:59.840
What I do kind of so that's like my that's what I do to sort of go throughout the day is I feel like I need it.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:07.200
But I typically almost always start my morning with a meditation, some sort of learning, definitely a cup of coffee.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.920
I will forever be a cup of coffee, girl, hot coffee, team hot in the morning.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:22.559
And if I can during the golden hour, it's just such a beautiful time, you know, which is that time like that where, you know, just before it starts to get light, it's kind of this moment of golden and pinks.
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.440
And um, so I'll try and find a place that's just really restorative to do that.
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.599
Sometimes my meditations are five minutes, sometimes they're 20 minutes, you know, it doesn't, there's no like right or wrong.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:43.440
But after I meditate, have my cup of coffee, do a quick little learning or reflection, then I will typically journal and just go through and be like, okay, what am I noticing today?
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:43.680
Right.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:44.799
That's the grounding piece.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:46.799
How am I opening myself up to possibilities?
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:47.920
You know, what's interesting?
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:49.519
What am I, what am I curious about?
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.640
What questions am I gonna actually solve today or go after today?
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:54.960
You know, really not solve, but ask, right?
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.200
And that even goes back to the responsibility of the team.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.319
And then going back to that, like leading with love, how can I show up for other people?
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:04.720
Starting with myself, how can I show up for myself?
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.839
How can I show up for my friends, my family, and my team?
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.160
And then from there, like what are the three to five aligned actions I'm gonna take today?
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.079
And that's that's what I journal every day.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.480
So I do have a pretty firm ritual, but it just depends on how much time I have to do it.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:40.000
Well, and I do something less firm, but I have the, I think I talked about it, but the five minute yes journal, because I can't do like just free writing, but it just is three things I'm grateful for, three things that would make today great, you know, affirmations, and it's quick, but it goes through your process, probably just a little bit quicker, but it does set the tone for your day.
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.160
It's kind of like this is what I want to achieve.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:49.519
And those three things you that would make today great typically aren't like major business accomplishments, it's more of small things.
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.480
And then at the end of the day, you close it out with five minutes as well.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:19:01.680
So I love kind of bookending my day with that because it makes the it puts the intention on it, but it also makes the things that maybe wouldn't seem things to celebrate.
00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:02.160
Right.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.079
Like it makes me celebrate them.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:05.039
I I love that.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:05.440
Yes.
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.400
I mean, and you know, to be honest, I have to get better at the recap at the end of the day because you are supposed to bookend it, like you do.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:18.079
I usually just think of one thing I'm grateful for because I'm the person who loves to read, and that's when I find that I love to read is at night.
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:24.000
So I have to literally like shut myself down and be like, I'm getting up tomorrow morning at 6:45, no matter what.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.680
I know it's kind of late for some people, but that's my you know go-to.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:29.440
And I don't want to be tired all day.
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.079
So like I have to, I have to kind of close it out.
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:33.279
Yeah, I love that.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:39.200
As you I want to talk a little bit about the perspective shifts as you've kind of gone through your journey that you've gone through.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:45.599
Is there a belief or mindset that you had to unlearn to become the leader that you are today?
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:46.720
Have to leave them behind.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.319
And what's one that sticks out for you?
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:48.960
For sure.
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:53.519
I mean, I I feel like I've always been creative and curious, always.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:59.519
And I was often shut down for that, especially earlier in my career, right?
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:04.319
Because creativity wasn't building the spreadsheet.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:13.359
You know, creativity was not something that you could necessarily create full attribution in the financial attribution model brain.
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.119
As I've gotten older and, you know, I develop more skills.
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:24.559
Obviously, I've balanced that a little bit so that I know my audience and can speak to my audience and think through different elements of business.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:37.920
Um it's it's interesting because I feel like what I've done in my career has been taken the creativity and probably built more structure around it so that it was a little bit more palatable for corporate.
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:38.319
Yeah.
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.039
I love that.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:48.559
I I think to say the same thing about the curiosity is in a large environment that has politics at play, curiosity can be misread so easily.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:59.680
And so that's where I would say I typically had a new job in corporate every 18 months because I would either I would just get like poking in too many people's areas and I'd be like, all right, time to go do something else because I'm getting in trouble here.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:00.160
Right.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:06.000
As a builder, like that curiosity can come across the wrong way when it's just a natural tendency, right?
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:07.200
To want to understand things.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:07.599
Yes.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.559
I'm laughing because pretty much every job I've had.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:22.960
Yes, pretty much every job I've had, or every boss that I've ever had, has had to pause because questions for me usually is for me, it's about building and communicating.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:28.000
And when I feel like communication or teamwork isn't really happening, I'll lead with questions.
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:35.279
And so sometimes it's misinterpreted as like getting into other people's business or, you know, and it's it's actually just more about sharing ideas.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.480
And that's one of the reasons that I love the idea of grounding.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:43.039
And I've honestly, when my team would ask questions, that to me was like joyous, right?
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.680
Because I was like, great, ask the uncomfortable questions.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.559
Let's have the uncomfortable conversations, let's do it.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:53.440
We're gonna come up with better, better, better, better solutions with the conversation.
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.480
But it is people who are not self aware, threatened.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:57.599
It's it's a real big deal.
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.480
People that that haven't done the work that doesn't Feel good.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.400
And we've all had leaders like that.
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.160
I mean, they just, and they're not bad people.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:05.599
They just haven't done the work.
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:16.319
And so when someone is doing the work and comes in, right, and is in that growth, that can cause some of this transformation or this right outgrowing of roles and people and companies.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:23.440
How do you define success sitting here today versus uh 10 years ago, 15 years ago?
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.119
How has that changed for you?
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.160
Well, I mean, I think financially I'm in a much better place, which is I'm grateful for, right?
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:38.799
You know, I've done the things, saved the money, done some um, still, you know, not done working and putting on that retirement hat by any stretch of the amount of it.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.279
But you have some freedom in that in the family.
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.119
And so now I'm really thinking about what I want to do next and who I want to do it with.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:50.000
And the who is even more important than the what.
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:50.400
Yep.
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.079
And so that that is truly, and I will and I love working.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.960
I love what I do.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.240
You know, I mean, for me, it's it's been a way that I've actually parented.
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:03.839
It's a way that I I mean my brother and I are super close because he's in business too, and we'll hop on and have the calls.
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:08.480
So I, you know, I don't I don't believe that you necessarily have to separate it out.
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:13.279
Like I think that fulfillment is really the end goal, not balance.
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:14.240
Yeah.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:17.839
And for me, I have more, you know, if I look at my plate, right?
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:29.200
As you look at, you know, putting one more thing on your plate, like for me, it's actually just about making sure I have what what I want on my plate at all times and being really mindful about what I say yes to why I say no too.
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:29.440
Yeah.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:34.799
For me, it's so different words, but similar is is what gives me energy versus what doesn't.
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.160
Because I'm good at a number of things that I could say yes to.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:38.400
Yeah.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.880
They just don't reciprocate the energy, right?
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.200
So my energy is one way, and I am a people pleaser to a fault.
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:50.720
And so I will say yes to all the things and to help all the people, and then I have I deplete my own energy.
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:51.119
Yeah.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:55.200
Jamie, I feel like one of the best things now you've talked a lot about CEO, right?
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:56.799
And chief energy officer.
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.559
You are your own chief energy officer.
00:23:58.720 --> 00:23:59.519
And I love that.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:00.720
It's so important.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:08.000
So, what's something that you value today that maybe at the beginning of your career you didn't value at the same level?
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:20.000
I think the fact that earlier in my career, I really felt like I needed to be on all the time, you know, that I couldn't take a moment off, or that, you know, there were there was only one way to work.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:27.039
Maybe that's a better way of saying it, you know, and the one way to work was to answer emails seconds after they land on your unboxed.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.519
You know, it's interesting because I'm working on a project right now that is a brand building project.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.119
I'm really excited about it.
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.440
And I just got back from New York City before the holiday break.
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:48.240
And it was so fun to be in New York knowing that I was working on this project and just opening up my eyes to everything that was around and taking it all in and thinking about like, okay, this is what's happening.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:49.839
Like, this is the latest and greatest in marketing.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:58.880
This is the latest and greatest in brand building, happening, you know, at a pivotal time, which is holiday season in New York City and the Upper East Side, you know, and it was like, it was like a candy land.
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:05.440
So everything that I did, I was able to actually take some of that and put it back into thinking about the project I was working on.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:10.319
I would have never ever thought that that could be considered work when I was younger.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.559
Well, that lesson, I think it's it is so important.
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:20.000
And it's not just, I mean, that it's also the quiet time that you, the walks in nature that where you can get that clarity in different ways.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.400
We think it's just push a little harder, right?
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:22.640
Right?
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:31.200
Grind a little bit more, put a few more hours in, and we're gonna get the the output that we want when reach a point where that no longer is the correct formula.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:31.680
Right.
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:32.319
Totally.
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.160
And that's and that is honestly one of the reasons I looked when I'm a retreat because it was exactly that.
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:39.599
Like that was a moment where it was like stillness and going back and taking the time.
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:48.000
And from that, I there were some, you know, great connections I made, which is I know other other focus, but also that became because I was more connected with myself.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:48.480
Yes.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:50.720
And no one, you know, this is the interesting work.
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:54.720
And I think this is the theme for the podcast is no one's gonna tell you you have to do that work.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:55.200
Right.
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:57.599
They might tell you you have to answer more emails, right?
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:03.200
Or make more spreadsheets or do that one more work thing, but no one's gonna tell you you have to do the inner work.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:05.680
Like that's that's why I want to tell these stories, right?
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.279
That's the most important piece.
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.519
So if we move to action, you know, like like what do we do?
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.480
You've told our story, you've you've shared some things.
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:23.680
What advice would you give to a high achieving leader who's listening, who's feeling just at a pivot point, maybe that stuck feeling, which to me isn't a bad feeling.
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.240
It's just an indication that you need to shift something.
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.160
What would you tell them to do first?
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:33.279
First, stop, pause, which it goes back to a lot of what we're talking about now.
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:42.160
But the very first thing is just to ground in the reality, to notice what you're feeling, notice why you're feeling it, notice what's going on around you, spend time in that.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.200
I promise you, answers are in the grounding.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.039
Now, I think about one of the most successful campaigns, it's very recent.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:53.599
I talk about this all the time, like on stages and in rooms and with marketing students.
00:26:53.839 --> 00:27:04.079
It was one that we did a couple summers ago for Caribou Coffee, where we created a dating show that wound up, you know, blowing out results for the new products that we launched.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:09.759
And I'll tell you what, yes, it was a creative solution and we worked with an amazing agency, an amazing team.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.880
But what came in it is grounding ourselves in the reality.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.680
What do we trying to reach?
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:17.359
What do these humans care about?
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:17.839
Right.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:18.240
Right.
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:24.319
How do we how do how can we actually work with them in the channels and the modalities that they're most interested in?
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:25.920
All of that came through the grounding.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:31.119
And I think that that is instead of actually just moving forward, just taking a moment to pause.
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:31.839
Simple.
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:34.799
So that's something everyone who's listening right now can just do.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:35.759
For sure.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.599
What's something you wish someone had told you?
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.519
I call it base camp, right?
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:51.279
When you were starting the climb of the mountain, what's the thing that you would now tell somebody, like my daughter Olivia, who you know very well, what would you tell her in this moment that you wish you knew back then?
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:54.480
Don't compromise who you are and what you believe in.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.720
You know, kindness and goodness always what's it's just, you know, it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:05.839
So the I think the the only time I'd ever failed at something is when I really lost myself.
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.680
Let's just let that sit for a second.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.920
I think that's it's true.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:15.039
The only time I feel like I've failed is when I've gone against my intuition, right?
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:21.519
Where it's told me this doesn't feel right, there's something here I should be asking different questions, and I did it anyway.
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.160
And it led to some pretty big mistakes, specifically as an entrepreneur.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:31.440
And I think most of us as leaders are almost that corporate, and nothing against corporate.
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.039
I'm just gonna say that corporate model almost suppresses that you know.
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.839
Like you said, if you just stop and took a breath, you know what the right answer is.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.799
It's just the world is telling you the answer is different.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:50.319
And it's very hard without that inner work to stand up to the world and say, no, this is the right answer for me right now.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.079
And I I think that is the next step for a lot of these leaders.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:29:01.599
Leaders that are listening, what's one message of hope, maybe from hearing your story that they can take away from this in the time?
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.240
Yeah, from the time we're living in.
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:06.799
I mean, yes, I know it's so interesting.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.000
I was just going through 2025 year in review on LinkedIn, right?
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.160
And like waiting, everyone, and everyone was talking about 2025, the big dumpster fire and all the things.
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:19.279
And I'm like, well, first of all, being uncomfortable is okay.
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.440
In fact, it's good for you, you know, from time to time.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:30.960
And I think what's exciting about the time that we're in is there has never been more opportunity to take that moment to pause.
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:40.640
There are so many tools, apps, whatnot, that you can use to actually just make sure that you get your head on straight, you know, that you really ground, that you're really strategic about the actions that you take.
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:41.920
So the tools that are there.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:50.960
I also feel like there's never been a better time with all the technology at our fingertips to create and to create personalized experiences at scale.
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.200
You know, I just I again, I'll I'll talk about New York.
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:57.519
I just came back and I stayed at One Hotels for the first time, which is a Starwood property.
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:12.160
Um, they believe, you know, it's mid-tier luxury, so it's not like four seasons, you know, but um, but it definitely was interesting because they they believe that you can be both luxurious and have eco-friendly experiences, right?
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:23.759
And it was just the whole thing from the moment that I booked my room, was able to sign up for my preferences, the experiences that I had with every single person, including the technology.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.000
So again, going back to purpose, people, cross-sense platforms.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:39.119
Um, you know, the fact that like there isn't a bottle of water anywhere in the building, not just because they are trying to avoid plastic, but because they filter every drop at the hotel.
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:43.359
So whether you're drinking out of the tap, whether you're washing your hair, whatever you're doing, it's all filtered water, right?
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:49.680
Just these little touches of being able to personalize at scale, like as a business person, excuse, it's really exciting.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:50.079
Yeah.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:51.119
Well, I love that.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:52.880
Like there's creation in that.
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.440
That's the creativity that you talked about, which we all have.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:57.200
It just comes out in different forms.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:08.160
But I think it's a great reminder for all of us that if you're navigating this transformation, which isn't a bad thing, it just means change, that sometimes you got to get back to being curious, being a beginner again.
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:08.720
Yes.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.079
And yes, being curious.
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:12.559
Yeah.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:12.880
Yeah.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.440
And not feeling like, why don't I know this?
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:16.720
Or why does this feel different?
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:21.200
I think there's a lot of judgment that can come up during that transformation that does us no good.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.799
Okay, Jamie, you probably know this quote.
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:23.599
What is the quote?
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:27.680
Like the the most important thing isn't to be right.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:32.799
The most important thing is to get it right.
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:33.200
No.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.880
We're gonna have to put this part out.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:36.319
We'll look it up, we'll put it in a show.
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:44.799
There is no, but there is this like really amazing quote about it's not about being right, it's about um like asking the questions to get to right.
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.960
Like that's yeah, it's about the journey.
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.599
It's about the journey.
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:48.880
Not about the destination.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:57.839
I mean, that's kind of the it's and this is the thing I I want all leaders to hear is just there's nothing broken when you feel the way you're feeling right now.
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:03.359
So if there's anyone who's feeling stuck, who's feeling burnt out, who's feeling there's a lesson in here.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:06.559
And I know it's the last thing you probably want to hear, but it doesn't mean something's wrong.
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:12.000
It actually means your body, the way you're feeling, is reacting to your current situation.
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.000
It's reacting to something that doesn't feel aligned somewhere in your values.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.240
And you talked about the values at the very beginning.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:26.240
And I think if more leaders did personal values exercises and really understood how they could live those out in whatever role they're in, right?
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:33.599
A stay-at-home mom to an entrepreneur, to a corporate executive, you can live those values out in whatever role.
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:34.160
For sure.
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.920
In whatever stage of life.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:44.319
And I think that back to your grounding word that you used quite a bit here is like that's an opportunity to get grounded back in who you are and what really matters to you.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.519
And I don't think enough of us, myself included, do that often enough.
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:47.839
Yeah.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.519
We don't back to that place.
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:54.319
Well, you said something really important, I believe, in that things don't happen to you, they happen for you.
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.559
Like you that's how that's hard.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:07.359
When you're in it, it's hard to believe that, except for every story that I tell, you know, that I hear from other leaders is the moments that were that fiery moments, right?
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:15.200
The moments where they were like, oh my gosh, what is going on are the moments that they recount as being the most key milestones in their journal.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.279
It's not the easy path, the easy days that we remember.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.920
It's the ones that are kind of forged in fire and pressurize us a little bit.
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:27.039
So I just appreciate you sharing your story.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:37.200
I I want to kind of wrap with where can people connect with you, find out more about what you've done, what you're doing, um, about the book and how the book is coming along.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:38.160
Common.
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:44.319
But what's the easiest way for them to connect and learn a little bit more about you and maybe follow your some of your inspiration?
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.400
LinkedIn is probably the most consistent.
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.079
I also am developing a lot of this stuff on www.arinnewkirk.com.
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.599
But um yeah, but I mean LinkedIn is is great.
00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:01.599
I I love going on LinkedIn and seeing what other people are doing, commenting and parting of a storm.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.559
So that's where I you can probably find me the most consistently.
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.640
And then some bonus round questions.
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:07.839
So to wrap this up.
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:11.280
What's your go-to song when you need to reset your own energy?
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:16.960
I'm gonna cheat because I actually, for me, I don't have like a pump it up song.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.159
I have a resettle in my body playlist.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.960
But I I use Spotify and I like songs like crazy.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:30.239
So I will just go into my liked songs and just play the first song that that shows up for me.
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.920
Yeah, and it's usually like something I know the words to, so I could really feel it.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:35.920
Um, but for me it's about playlists.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.039
Like I it's and it's so interesting because I just went through and yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.599
So I had different ones for different times and different seasons.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:47.599
And like when I go away for a weekend with friends, I'll create a playlist that, you know, so easy, obviously.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:50.159
But um, so for me, it's more about the playlist.
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.800
Sharing some of these playlists with me from Spotify.
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:56.559
Okay, you will call me or give me whatever your Spotify name is.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:56.880
Okay.
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:04.079
What's a book or a podcast or something that you took in that really changed your perspective when you needed that shift?
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.440
I know that most of your followers have read your books and follow you.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:11.599
So I will say that truly culture climb was huge.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:18.000
You know this because you helped me actually, Keystone helped me work through some elements when I was doing some teamwork.
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:21.519
So culture climb and surviving greatness are are huge in my list.
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:26.880
I the the other, so I follow authors, I tend to follow people versus particular books.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:34.320
Lisa Sun wrote a book called Grappitas, and it's about um different superpowers for confidence.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:39.119
And I think that's one area that I've had to do a lot of work in is how to be a more confident person.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:43.679
I'm a pretty confident leader, I'm a pretty confident business person, I'm pretty confident in my curiosity and creativity.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:50.880
But when it comes down to it, it's, you know, it's always easier for me to kind of work behind a brand than necessarily work as Aaron Yucker.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.400
You know this as a personal brand.
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:56.079
Uh I that book was huge for me.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:03.599
It just helped me understand how I can actually be myself and feel confident in most situations and what I need to work on too.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.159
I love that the authenticity of success.
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:12.159
I mean, that's what that really is the definition is to be yourself as you grow and evolve, right?
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:13.280
And have these new challenges.
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:14.239
So I love that.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:22.000
Okay, and the last question if you could, I'm gonna give you a billboard on a major highway, and you could put one message on it for every executive to see.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:23.039
What would you put on it?
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:24.800
Alignment is not a soft skill.
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:25.840
I love it.
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.400
I don't know.
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:28.480
I had to work on that one a little bit, maybe, Jamie.
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.800
But I will say there was something about alignment.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.320
Maybe you can help workshop with me.
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.960
There is something about alignment, and it is not a soft skill.
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:43.280
Like it is key to everything, and it's your alignment, you, yes, your king, your to the strategy, all of the things.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:44.880
And we all know that feeling.
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:49.119
You started off this conversation talking about those moments of misalignment.
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:50.159
It's friction.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:58.239
You can feel it when you're like have momentum, and then all of a sudden it's a person or a meeting or something that like slows it down.
00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.679
You can feel that friction.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.639
And I love the idea of it not being about the people, right?
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:05.920
It's about the people not being aligned in some way.
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:14.400
Yeah getting careful about what that means, because I think there's a whole different level of conversation we can have when we're searching for alignment and we just don't have it.
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:15.599
Because then it's about us.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:16.079
Right.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:17.760
We can fix this, right?
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:21.519
We can't fix other people, we can't force other people to do that work, right?
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:38.239
You know, I yes, because if it's if you're no longer the person that others feel alignment with, or if you're not feeling alignment with the others, I would love for us to be able to be like as a society, us, you know, be able to say, okay, let's take a beat here and understand this a little bit more.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.480
And then let's part as friends, you know.
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:42.639
I I just think there's so much to alignment.
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:44.559
It's just, it's, it's kind of everything.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:45.280
It is.
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:46.000
It is.
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:48.239
Well, you are everything to me.
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:51.280
I appreciate you way beyond the podcast.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.079
I appreciate your support, your friendship, and your mentorship.
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:59.920
Um, and I'm really glad to have you be my first guest here and to share your wisdom with our listeners.
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.840
So thank you for being here and for doing this.
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:02.320
Thank you.
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:03.199
It's an honor.
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:08.480
Success isn't just about reaching the top, it's about what you discover once you're there.
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:15.760
Here on View from the Top, we explore the stories, the setbacks, and the inner work that redefine what success really means.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.880
If this episode resonated with you, I'd encourage you to share it with someone who might need it right now.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:26.480
And to stay connected, make sure and subscribe so you get notified when we release new episodes.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:32.480
You can connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, or visit my website at jamietace.com.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.559
All of the links are in the show notes.
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.119
Thank you for listening to View from the Top.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.159
We'll see you at the top and beyond.
