Delivering Banking Transformation: From Mindset to AI at Scale

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Welcome to the FinTech OS Evolve podcast.
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I've traveled again into Europe and I'm here in Serbia, Belgrade, first time for me.
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And I'm delighted to have Nivenka here. We've just quickly rushed in a taxi cab to get here.
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We've just done a panel discussion about digital modernization strategy,
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and of course, AI as well.
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But why don't we start, Nivenka, tell us a bit about your role and the bank
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that you operate in, and just to set the context.
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Yeah, I work in a bank in NLB Comercialna Banca here in Belgrade.
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The bank is a part of the NLB group.
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Currently, I manage banking products delivery.
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Actually, if we would go to the terms like in history, that would be back office.
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And I am a part of various projects involved in the strategy and very much working
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on efficiency in our bank. Yeah.
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Now, usually I do the introductions, but I was going to trip over how to pronounce
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your bank, and I was so afraid of doing it, which is why I got you to do it
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this time around. Excellent.
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So thankfully, you've taken the burden off me, and I will now refer to it as
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the bank from now on, just to save myself any embarrassment.
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But you say you've been at the heart of product delivery here for your bank in Serbia.
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And we just spent the morning talking about digital transformation versus modernization
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and I guess the difference between the two um what's your take on on that here
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for for NLV and of course for the the region itself.
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Yeah. I mean, the transformation is for sure happening.
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The transformation in, I would say, changing the mindset of our people.
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The transformation also from the technological point of view,
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for sure, because that goes hand in hand, especially in these days.
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And I think that's happening all over the market because things are changing so fast.
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The technology is evolving so fast that we actually need to be faster and evolve as we go, actually.
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Yeah, and I guess everybody's stuck on quite an old core, and I guess how you
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build upon that, so you can address those agility and the speed to market and
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the new products that's going to come out here in the region,
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it's pretty fundamental. Yeah, it is.
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Actually, in the terms of a project manager, I would say we are far,
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far from waterfall, which was the way to go for years and years, right?
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We are really focusing on delivering our projects in smaller pieces to have
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the smaller wins, but the wins are here.
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With that, we motivate the colleagues that work on the project.
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And that's the key point of every project are the people behind it.
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The technology, of course, is the enabler.
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But people and business need to know why. The technology is how.
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So that's a big step out of the system and the way of working before towards...
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And everybody seems to be taking that approach now the days of.
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Big bang transformations are kind of disappearing in
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that more modular approach taking
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things in bite-sized chunks delivering value
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confidence momentum um you
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know not very often um a cto ceo a
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board will start a digital transformation that is finishing in
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three five years time and you look back and a
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lot of the executives aren't even there anymore so
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they've forgotten what they've done it for or they've been moved on because it hasn't delivered
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the value that is expecting yeah yeah those days
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are definitely over we we are constantly looking to
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have minimal viable project deliveries um
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and that means that that gives us the opportunity that we are really agile so
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have a small piece done put it into production see if it works maybe it doesn't
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maybe we are too late maybe we did it wrong maybe we didn't listen to the customers
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good enough we We didn't understand their needs.
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So that is actually where we are, the way of working.
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We do still, of course, have projects. We do have the vision.
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We do have the strategy that has to be there.
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But to get there, we take it step by step much faster with delivering or failing
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fast, if I may say so. Yeah, absolutely. That's also important. Yeah.
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And you said before, the mindset and the culture to be able to deliver that
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way in smaller chunks, it.
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It takes a lot to change that in our old-fashioned bank that has been doing
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it in the same way in so many, many years.
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But I think you said the opening game is not necessarily the technology that fails, it's the people.
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It's the people. It's always the people. It has always been the people.
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We just didn't maybe recognize it strongly enough.
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We focused on the technology in the past. This time, we do know with the AI
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coming really strongly, right? Yeah. We do need a new mindset.
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So in our bank, we have this initiative on the bank level, how we engage people
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on the operational level.
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Of course, we do have top management support. We do know where we're going. Yeah.
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The strategy is set, everybody on board. The strategy is there.
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But everybody has to be on board, not just the management.
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I mean, we need to have our people on board. So we started actually looking
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for some champions in our bank that were interested in new technologies or something new,
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whichever works, whatever works, maybe a way of work, maybe the technology, not always.
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And we started spreading it from bottom
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up actually yeah so especially in the operations of the bank where i'm a part
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of um we have started building this little little improvements and started communicating
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to the whole team the team of 100 or 200 people we've done this look.
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Think about it think about how it can help you maybe tomorrow it takes time
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of course it doesn't happen overnight, but if you work on it,
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now it's here, we have the culture here.
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I can easily say that every person
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in operations and now we are spreading all
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over the bank thinks about why am I doing this this way can yeah constantly
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questioning it yeah yeah that's that's the the uh constant improvement mindset
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that we are building actually and and we have the momentum now we have results
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already yeah and when you have the results it's much easier to on board everybody.
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You have the buy-in and especially important when you have the buy-in with the
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seniors because it's not about always about the young people.
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They usually are the first on board, of course. They're interested in new things.
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But the seniors, I mean, we were very happy, very impressed.
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We have colleagues in my team that are really seniors doing their work for 30 years the same way.
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We said, let's try and find another way. Let's look on the market what can help
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us do our jobs efficiently. efficiency, of course, efficiently,
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and maybe learn something new.
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And they were on board from day one that we started with this little project that we had.
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They were on board. And imagine the seniors being able now to understand how
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AI solution works, how the models are trained.
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Imagine the buy-in from other colleagues. I agree.
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I agree. And it's a big part of your role is aligning those business
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stakeholders and the technology stakeholders together to come
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to deliver a customer outcome a project a
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program in a successful way and you know
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having champions to be the
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voice of that and often maybe picking the
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the detractors across the bank and converting them
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into promoters is is is key way and i
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think you said thank and i referred to back to the panel we just come from
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which is stuck in my head which is listening
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to the quietest voice in the room yeah and that's
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so super important and a few people come up to me afterwards and said you know
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what I don't do that actually I listen to the biggest the loudest but actually
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some of the greatest ideas and maybe some of the barriers and some of the some
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of the insights come from people
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who are just maybe not as comfortable in group settings or speaking up.
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That's something you promote. Yeah. And I promote it because I have failed before in some of the tasks.
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And that's brave just to admit it and to say it.
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And you've learned from it. I mean, I don't have problem with admitting it because
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this is the only way we can learn actually as human beings.
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That's my opinion. So I've learned now that every team, whether it's from business,
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whether it's from technology, they have to sit together.
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Whether it's external vendor, we have to accept everybody.
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We are the same team it's not them it's not us
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and then um to add to
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that always be aware of the quietest person
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in the room because most often they
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have something relevant to say maybe they're not
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comfortable as you said maybe i
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don't know they're scared of some you
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know there are always the relationship relationships
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between colleagues yeah the politics of it yeah that
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has to be taken into consideration so um
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the quietest person in the room you don't need
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to address him to ask him in front of everybody if
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you see and you have to actually concentrate to see that if you see that the
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person doesn't speak yeah maybe later on maybe offline if it's online meeting
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let's say yeah um and just nicely approach the the person and say What do you think about it?
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And these people often have good remarks, things that you can address on time.
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And then these people...
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Often feel, I knew that, I said it, but he didn't say it maybe at the right
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time and nobody heard him.
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So yeah, that's a lesson learned actually. It's really an experience.
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I think politics plays a huge role in that.
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But we keep circling back to this mindset and change of the culture that every have a voice.
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And actually, if you're trying to fundamentally change how a
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bank operates or you know a new initiative the people
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have been in that organization for 20 30 years
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that they hold so much intelligence about
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how things are truly done not how they've been
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written how things are truly done how things customers truly get
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around how the staff work their way around systems the little niches they they
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and that's where the efficiencies come from actually cutting out those those
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levels that just don't need to be done so i think i think it's really brave
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and And it's interesting how you then translate that into Serbia as a market
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because we're here today, we've just done a panel,
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we've had many banks here talking about these subjects and obviously I'm not from Belgrade.
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So I find it really interesting, are the banks here...
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Ready for this element of transformation and modernization? How early are they in the journey?
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I would say we are pretty much at the same stage of this journey.
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We are aware, everybody's aware that transformation has to start,
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but I would say actually it started in all of the banks, the transformation.
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It's visible through different channels that you can see they're opening to
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different solutions that they're giving to the market.
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Everybody's here, but everybody, we are learning actually how to do it.
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And one model doesn't fit every bank. Of course, it depends on what you're focusing in.
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So every bank has to recognize where is their human value in where are the values
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of the team that are here and how to build on that.
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Because again and again as I say and I will probably say a few more times the
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technology is the enabler,
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it's not the thing that you should fit to but you need to get the best out of
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it but fit it to your business cases and that's a bit different for every bank
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it depends on the target market that they have or the niches that they work on.
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But I think we are all here I would say
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not just in serbia i would say in europe also maybe
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you mean you're from slovenia yeah i'm from slovenia i
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would say in slovenia also um the transformation in
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the manner of learning how to do
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things differently again i'm returning to
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the mindset of the people right because technology is there there's so many
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different technologies we we can always pick one and do but do you pick so So
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it's such a fast-moving market now with new technology players,
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new initiatives, things that we think we know today,
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even tomorrow, they're changing because that's how fast-paced this is.
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How do you and your bank...
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Look and prioritize these initiatives or evaluate them and say,
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this is the one for us and not just for today, but for tomorrow as well.
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Well, it's a bit tricky these days. Of course, you need to have the strategic
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view on where first the business, right? Where you want to go.
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What do I need to get there? That's the first thing that you're asking.
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Where is the value for the customer?
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Always customer first, then employee experience. um
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so how do i get there and then
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when we go sometimes we have internal development sometimes
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we work with a partner it's a combination and that's okay
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it's healthy this way i think um but when
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we decide okay um that's the solution we want
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to have we see something on the market we go into
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the processes of procurement of course we um
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as we have to and um lately
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we decide okay we this one fits
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best today and it can fit um
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for a year two three but we are aware that within this period of one two three
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years it depends there will be new things on the market maybe much better also
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it's on the partners if this is a partner solution that they involve evolve their.
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Technology they need to constantly invest in their platforms yeah
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they need to constantly invest and from the other
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side we need to constantly follow what's happening and
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um so actually strategically we
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don't sign contracts for 10 years anymore i mean it wouldn't make sense at all
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you're just locked in yeah you're just locked in and then you have an issue
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because maybe somebody is not able to deliver what you need yeah um so my latest
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experience was we signed the contract for three years,
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but within these three years, we today already know, we have implemented this,
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but we today already know that there are better solutions on the market,
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Of course, we expect the provider that we have today to also upgrade the solution.
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But maybe we will check the market within this time of three-year period and see maybe to change.
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Because today, to add another satellite in our technology stack,
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right? It's not that hard anymore.
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It's not like it used to be the integration because we are much more mature in that manner.
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So, yeah, constantly...
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Researching the market but of course we
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need to do the job so we need to take the decisions yeah
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um sooner rather later i
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can say um and that's the
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way we do things i think you're right i think um this i
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think is on uh technology platforms to
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really be aligned with banks vision
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and where they're trying to get to and banks need
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to be open about what their strategy years and not be
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a closed door and actually talk really openly about it and be
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honest that maybe they're in retail banking and they want to
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move into SME or capital markets or corporate and
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then the platforms look at their capabilities and be
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honest about where that roadmap sits and where they can
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solve the problem today and work with you and co-create co-design
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the future aspects of the proposition you
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want to deliver but you hear this term partnership
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all the time and I sometimes used a bit loosely but the true
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partnership is where the bank and the the
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ecosystem provider are truly working together and
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they're informing each other's roadmap so not only is the the
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bank saying actually we're going to get capital markets can you help code design
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some customer journeys some products but then also the provider going to the
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bank actually you know what we're talking to a lot of people it's a niche here
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for you it's you know young savers and actually the big banks aren't interested
00:17:21.105 --> 00:17:25.625
and here's some of the features that we think could be really cool and that That becomes really,
00:17:25.985 --> 00:17:28.845
that becomes a true form of partnership, brings loyalty.
00:17:29.225 --> 00:17:32.045
And suddenly then you're in the three year, it's a no brainer to be,
00:17:32.305 --> 00:17:34.445
that's the partner for you and you can grow.
00:17:34.505 --> 00:17:37.325
And I think that level of honesty is starting to get there and I'm starting
00:17:37.325 --> 00:17:40.165
to see it as well where banks are okay with that.
00:17:41.745 --> 00:17:45.245
And so it just gets abounded. And the other thing I'd say about,
00:17:45.445 --> 00:17:50.105
he's talking about digital transformation and human, if I could change one thing,
00:17:50.365 --> 00:17:54.465
I would switch the two words around and rather it'd be digital transformation,
00:17:54.585 --> 00:17:58.425
I'd call it transformation with digital because so much empathy gets put on
00:17:58.425 --> 00:18:01.085
the word digital that people forget to transform.
00:18:01.886 --> 00:18:05.746
Yes, that's exactly why I always emphasize the people.
00:18:06.566 --> 00:18:10.526
The technology is here. Yes, we are digital, but the people are important.
00:18:10.886 --> 00:18:14.426
The people, of course, from one hand, the people that work in a bank,
00:18:14.566 --> 00:18:18.046
so our employees, and from the other hand, our customers.
00:18:18.366 --> 00:18:21.306
I mean, we are here for our customers, right? Yeah.
00:18:21.726 --> 00:18:27.726
So, I agree totally with your proposal to change it. Switch it around.
00:18:27.966 --> 00:18:31.866
Switch it around. Absolutely. yeah and i guess all these
00:18:31.866 --> 00:18:34.906
initiatives uh and they're endless right um
00:18:34.906 --> 00:18:37.526
they they cost money let's be honest about they cost a
00:18:37.526 --> 00:18:40.566
lot of money um and there'll always
00:18:40.566 --> 00:18:43.566
be skepticism on are they
00:18:43.566 --> 00:18:46.166
going to deliver first of all they're going to deliver the customer outcomes that's the
00:18:46.166 --> 00:18:49.086
key thing but also are they going to have a
00:18:49.086 --> 00:18:52.146
if there's a cfo in the room but say are they going to return on the
00:18:52.146 --> 00:18:54.766
investment and i guess there's two sides of
00:18:54.766 --> 00:18:57.666
the coin which is yeah you know you can spend money to to
00:18:57.666 --> 00:19:01.606
make money ultimately nobody's a charity but there's also we need to do this
00:19:01.606 --> 00:19:04.946
because if we don't do it here is the outcome so it's going to cost money it
00:19:04.946 --> 00:19:07.466
might not even return but if we don't do it we're going to lose our customers
00:19:07.466 --> 00:19:11.186
to competitors down the road or you know we've got to do it to keep the wheels
00:19:11.186 --> 00:19:15.926
turning or fear of whatever it might be so you i know you do but you've seen
00:19:15.926 --> 00:19:17.426
a few business cases in the past and.
00:19:18.506 --> 00:19:21.866
What's what how do you start to measure them and what's the kpis and the metrics
00:19:21.866 --> 00:19:25.886
that you truly measure to see if there's success or not?
00:19:28.173 --> 00:19:33.293
We truly, truly measure the processes, the efficiency of the processes when
00:19:33.293 --> 00:19:35.253
it comes to the processes of the bank, right?
00:19:35.713 --> 00:19:43.313
From the other hand, we measure, of course, our profit through our fees and interest rates.
00:19:43.793 --> 00:19:45.733
So that's another metric.
00:19:46.213 --> 00:19:51.313
But it all comes down to each individual business case.
00:19:51.813 --> 00:19:56.353
Behind every idea, there should be a business case.
00:19:56.473 --> 00:20:02.613
Yeah, absolutely. Maybe at the end of this business case, there's just a competition is here.
00:20:03.253 --> 00:20:07.813
They are all on this train and we need to join the train.
00:20:08.253 --> 00:20:13.053
Sometimes it's that. In majority of cases, of course, we always try to find
00:20:13.053 --> 00:20:19.533
something that we can either lower the costs or make more profit. Of course, we are a bank.
00:20:20.433 --> 00:20:26.253
But the business cases are crucial. And again, it depends on the case where
00:20:26.253 --> 00:20:29.693
we look for the benefits, because benefits can be different.
00:20:30.753 --> 00:20:34.653
And I think when we discuss efficiency...
00:20:35.888 --> 00:20:42.228
As a business case, at the end, this efficiency should be seen also towards the customers.
00:20:42.628 --> 00:20:45.508
How? We are faster, most probably, if we are efficient.
00:20:45.868 --> 00:20:51.328
We are faster. Maybe we have done something on the quality of our deliveries, right?
00:20:51.628 --> 00:20:56.248
And that comes from this efficiency also. So I think it's hand in hand.
00:20:56.428 --> 00:21:02.068
It's not either one or the second, but it's somehow connected.
00:21:03.228 --> 00:21:06.288
And I say this a lot of times to my colleagues when
00:21:06.288 --> 00:21:09.348
we are discussing internal processes within my team and
00:21:09.348 --> 00:21:12.648
what can we do more about it and how can we be faster and
00:21:12.648 --> 00:21:15.708
more efficient and there's always somebody that asks
00:21:15.708 --> 00:21:21.668
but what does the customer has out of this I mean we are investing our money
00:21:21.668 --> 00:21:28.008
into this but of course the customer has at the end if nothing else on time
00:21:28.008 --> 00:21:33.568
whatever we need to deliver and with the exact data as we are obliged to give them,
00:21:33.848 --> 00:21:36.528
as we are regulated, and faster.
00:21:36.968 --> 00:21:40.788
That's important for the customer. Yeah, the voice of the customer is really...
00:21:40.788 --> 00:21:45.048
There was a story, I think, I can't remember who it was, I think it might have
00:21:45.048 --> 00:21:50.788
been Amazon, or one of the big tech companies, that whenever they have a board meeting...
00:21:51.372 --> 00:21:56.112
They always leave an empty chair. And the reason an empty chair is because they
00:21:56.112 --> 00:21:58.832
say, what does the customer think? And they point to the empty chair.
00:21:59.012 --> 00:22:00.532
And it's always the comeback.
00:22:00.772 --> 00:22:06.852
And it's interesting because ultimately, even in Serbia, the expectations of
00:22:06.852 --> 00:22:10.512
a customer is no different to a customer in the UK, in Moldova,
00:22:10.612 --> 00:22:11.952
in Romania, even in the States.
00:22:12.592 --> 00:22:17.972
It's being digitally enabled. The next generation, or even my son's 18,
00:22:18.492 --> 00:22:24.232
that generation of new customers, expect banking at the fingertips.
00:22:25.132 --> 00:22:28.992
Interesting that you're mentioning this because I had an opportunity to work
00:22:28.992 --> 00:22:30.352
with a group of students.
00:22:31.652 --> 00:22:37.392
We have a program that we invite students that are actually still studying to
00:22:37.392 --> 00:22:40.132
our bank to get to know the banking.
00:22:40.392 --> 00:22:45.772
They're not necessarily students of economy, but to get to know the banking.
00:22:46.112 --> 00:22:52.032
And I had the opportunity and it was a great pleasure to work with for wonderful girls.
00:22:53.001 --> 00:22:59.261
Well, women. And I've asked them after the discussion how the bank works,
00:22:59.361 --> 00:23:05.341
how we operate, how much we are regulated, and where we are towards digitalization and so on.
00:23:05.881 --> 00:23:09.821
And I said, what do you expect? You're 20, 21.
00:23:10.021 --> 00:23:17.021
What do you expect from a bank? And all four said, I don't ever want to step into the branch.
00:23:17.481 --> 00:23:20.101
This is all I need. Here's my phone.
00:23:20.601 --> 00:23:24.801
Here's my phone. That's all I need. So make sure you're there.
00:23:25.401 --> 00:23:29.401
So, I mean, we all know that, right? We are thinking about it.
00:23:29.521 --> 00:23:31.561
It doesn't matter if you're 20, 30, 40.
00:23:32.201 --> 00:23:34.741
Actually, in these days, who wants to go to the branch?
00:23:36.921 --> 00:23:41.601
But the message was so strong, so loud, actually.
00:23:42.001 --> 00:23:48.081
Don't even think about if you want to attract us as the younger generations.
00:23:48.101 --> 00:23:51.161
And we need to attract, of course, the younger generations.
00:23:51.161 --> 00:23:55.001
If you want to have as your clients then don't
00:23:55.001 --> 00:23:58.061
make me go to a branch ever ever yeah right
00:23:58.061 --> 00:24:01.241
so that's that's i think very important and i
00:24:01.241 --> 00:24:04.661
think it is my uh my son recently opened
00:24:04.661 --> 00:24:08.061
up i mean they come from a family of bankers my dad was a banker 40 years before
00:24:08.061 --> 00:24:12.981
me so you know it's not a new concept for him but uh even as 18 year old he
00:24:12.981 --> 00:24:18.521
had to open up his first uh kind of student account with many banks and we looked
00:24:18.521 --> 00:24:23.341
at so many of the big banks in the UK and we got so fine in the process and he's like dad I'm.
00:24:24.302 --> 00:24:28.742
I'm bored now this is just hard work and he just wanted the path of least resistance,
00:24:29.262 --> 00:24:32.002
and so you then step to the neobanks that give this
00:24:32.002 --> 00:24:35.202
fantastic app experience now we
00:24:35.202 --> 00:24:38.342
all know that there's maybe there's not much behind that but you know
00:24:38.342 --> 00:24:41.522
they've kept captulated that young audience that
00:24:41.522 --> 00:24:44.422
want the the banking at the fingertips and they make
00:24:44.422 --> 00:24:47.382
it um as fun as it possibly could be to onboard
00:24:47.382 --> 00:24:50.482
and to open a bank account those are features that are relevant for
00:24:50.482 --> 00:24:54.222
that card trade that this kind of hyper personalization of features
00:24:54.222 --> 00:24:57.402
that at life stages of people's uh
00:24:57.402 --> 00:25:01.002
so they've really captured that market um and
00:25:01.002 --> 00:25:07.362
then in the post came a physical debit card he kind of literally went what do
00:25:07.362 --> 00:25:11.422
i do with that and he literally i mean he's moved he's gone to university now
00:25:11.422 --> 00:25:15.442
that bank card is still in his desk at home he's never going to use that bank
00:25:15.442 --> 00:25:18.622
card it's it's on the phone it's that it's apple pay or whatever it might be
00:25:19.042 --> 00:25:20.662
and it just made me to giggle because I thought.
00:25:21.890 --> 00:25:27.190
Yeah, that's it. Today, that's it. That's it for the younger. That's absolutely it.
00:25:27.790 --> 00:25:32.990
Our generations, if I may say so, we are still, of course, I have everything on the phone. Yes.
00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:36.930
But I always carry just in case my card with me.
00:25:37.230 --> 00:25:40.110
Maybe the phone will not work. Maybe something happened, right?
00:25:40.290 --> 00:25:44.210
Yeah. But I also see this with my daughter. She's 27 years old.
00:25:45.050 --> 00:25:48.010
The phone is her life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. there's
00:25:48.010 --> 00:25:51.550
no discussion about it so yeah being being
00:25:51.550 --> 00:25:54.510
able to follow that expectation to deliver
00:25:54.510 --> 00:25:59.170
on that expectation that's a job because realistically that
00:25:59.170 --> 00:26:02.230
affects also the business models of the
00:26:02.230 --> 00:26:05.130
banks in the future and that future is not so far
00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:08.230
far away yeah as you mentioned already
00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:11.170
some of the other competition that it's not the banking industry
00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:14.210
but they have it they have all these gadget features
00:26:14.210 --> 00:26:17.430
that are very interesting right um so
00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:20.230
the banking models i think in a
00:26:20.230 --> 00:26:23.390
very near future we'll have to adapt to this new
00:26:23.390 --> 00:26:29.530
reality that we are living in and whoever doesn't adapt well most probably will
00:26:29.530 --> 00:26:34.570
not be for long on the market just to make you feel better in my pocket i do
00:26:34.570 --> 00:26:40.730
still have debit cards and i still have some cash i can't remember i I just used it.
00:26:41.350 --> 00:26:46.690
I even got some local currency, just in case. Just in case. Because it's just in case.
00:26:46.890 --> 00:26:48.670
What happens if they don't accept
00:26:48.670 --> 00:26:51.950
Applebee? What if they don't accept a card? I better have some cash.
00:26:52.130 --> 00:26:56.030
If my son arrived here yesterday as I did and...
00:26:57.413 --> 00:27:00.253
Had to order a taxi and pay
00:27:00.253 --> 00:27:02.953
cash or card he wouldn't get very far and he'd be like
00:27:02.953 --> 00:27:05.533
but he is responsible that this is terrible it's a
00:27:05.533 --> 00:27:08.313
terrible experience and his entry point into the country
00:27:08.313 --> 00:27:11.133
would be like yeah this is a bad experience bad
00:27:11.133 --> 00:27:14.193
experience it's digitally enabled how can i possibly operate as
00:27:14.193 --> 00:27:16.873
a human being without using my phone to to make
00:27:16.873 --> 00:27:19.993
payments and schedule things and my my uh
00:27:19.993 --> 00:27:23.653
advice to my daughter when she travels always is do
00:27:23.653 --> 00:27:26.673
a bit of a checkup on the country that you're traveling to because
00:27:26.673 --> 00:27:29.833
different countries are in different stages of involvement
00:27:29.833 --> 00:27:33.093
of digital right there are some countries which
00:27:33.093 --> 00:27:36.373
there's still a lot of cash so do a bit of research just
00:27:36.373 --> 00:27:39.253
be prepared that you don't land on the airport and
00:27:39.253 --> 00:27:42.533
you cannot get a taxi because you don't have a cash because also
00:27:42.533 --> 00:27:49.753
atms are now being withdrawn from the markets very much yeah um also on the
00:27:49.753 --> 00:27:54.393
market of the i mean on the area of european union there's a quite a strong
00:27:54.393 --> 00:27:59.893
push towards withdrawing the cash out of the cashless society.
00:27:59.893 --> 00:28:04.893
There are some fights back now, I mean, expected, if you ask me.
00:28:05.573 --> 00:28:12.053
But yeah, the younger generations, absolutely, digital, digital, end-to-end digital.
00:28:12.293 --> 00:28:18.093
They don't care how in behind that works. And this behind part that actually
00:28:18.093 --> 00:28:23.693
is the bank as today is will for sure be changed in a few years,
00:28:23.713 --> 00:28:26.133
how it will look, how many people will be needed.
00:28:27.175 --> 00:28:30.235
Different skills actually maybe the number will not
00:28:30.235 --> 00:28:33.375
dressed drastically drop yeah uh the
00:28:33.375 --> 00:28:36.075
number of employees maybe not but the skills will be
00:28:36.075 --> 00:28:39.095
different yeah right they expect the skills to have
00:28:39.095 --> 00:28:42.235
on daily on on your job uh to
00:28:42.235 --> 00:28:45.435
operate with this is for sure changing how is
00:28:45.435 --> 00:28:49.015
your bank doing in terms of this digital label uh onboarding you
00:28:49.015 --> 00:28:52.035
know having a great onboarding journey for current account savings
00:28:52.035 --> 00:28:56.055
for retail for sma even
00:28:56.055 --> 00:28:59.315
into lending how are you getting on in that journey yeah we
00:28:59.315 --> 00:29:02.355
we are on the journey for um for some
00:29:02.355 --> 00:29:05.075
segments we already are there for some we
00:29:05.075 --> 00:29:09.355
are still working we also have some legislation maybe
00:29:09.355 --> 00:29:12.075
that needs to be addressed or maybe challenged a bit
00:29:12.075 --> 00:29:15.135
yeah absolutely but um i mean
00:29:15.135 --> 00:29:18.015
this is absolutely something that i think all
00:29:18.015 --> 00:29:20.895
the on the level of the country it needs to be
00:29:20.895 --> 00:29:23.815
actually from the if not nothing else
00:29:23.815 --> 00:29:26.555
from the bank side bank banks needs to push it right
00:29:26.555 --> 00:29:32.515
and this transition will take some time but it's possible already today uh so
00:29:32.515 --> 00:29:38.275
we are on the journey working on it and pretty sure next year we will be fully
00:29:38.275 --> 00:29:45.855
um digital also for the onboarding side yeah yeah so and you are also slightly ai enabled Right.
00:29:46.035 --> 00:29:50.515
So you've actually started playing with some AI tools and some AI initiatives.
00:29:50.675 --> 00:29:55.195
And we've talked before around a lot of these do fail and it's okay to fail.
00:29:55.235 --> 00:29:58.455
Fail fast is, as you say, it's part of the, it's part of the process and having
00:29:58.455 --> 00:30:01.055
a mindset to, to try something and it doesn't work and quickly.
00:30:01.255 --> 00:30:03.135
You know, recycle back and try something new.
00:30:03.255 --> 00:30:06.435
And, but you've, you and your bank have actually deployed.
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:12.639
Um an AI initiative and it's I won't spoil the the surprise but it's been successful and you
00:30:12.979 --> 00:30:16.739
can actually measure it yeah it's really successful and we we of course are
00:30:16.739 --> 00:30:21.699
measuring it all we we did plan we did we did prepare the business case we did
00:30:21.699 --> 00:30:25.999
the assessment and actually it all came true so we are we are very successful
00:30:25.999 --> 00:30:31.819
yes in that part uh maybe to mention before AI In the past few years,
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:38.099
we have strongly really had a push on the development of RPA.
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:40.539
I don't know. It's not the new technology.
00:30:41.499 --> 00:30:46.659
But it's easy to use. It's easy to deliver the RPAs.
00:30:47.679 --> 00:30:52.059
And we have built a wonderful community within the bank that now everybody knows
00:30:52.059 --> 00:30:54.779
that our colleagues are also robots, as we call them.
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:57.179
We didn't give them names yet. I don't know why.
00:30:57.819 --> 00:31:00.859
But there's many of them. Maybe we would run out of names.
00:31:01.199 --> 00:31:07.019
Yeah, but on top of that, when we saw that actually RPA is fantastic for some
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:11.839
repetitive tasks, we started in, of course, in the operations.
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.339
Now we are spreading the knowledge on how to use it and for what actually can it be used.
00:31:16.659 --> 00:31:19.879
And on top of that, we started playing with AI.
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:23.079
When I say playing, I mean we
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:28.459
gave the opportunity to a big number of our colleagues to have AI tools.
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:34.539
Um, uh, now these AI tools are all the same on the NLB group level.
00:31:35.019 --> 00:31:40.259
And actually we said for the first, I don't know, few months,
00:31:40.479 --> 00:31:45.019
maybe let's play with it. Let's learn what it can do, what it cannot do.
00:31:45.219 --> 00:31:52.639
So again, within my team, um, I said, whatever you think of, give it a chance.
00:31:53.327 --> 00:31:56.467
Um give them the task
00:31:56.467 --> 00:31:59.607
um give the instructions we had
00:31:59.607 --> 00:32:02.767
the education on how to write prompts we did
00:32:02.767 --> 00:32:05.927
all that yeah and then i said just try it with whatever
00:32:05.927 --> 00:32:08.787
you are doing on a daily basis and here
00:32:08.787 --> 00:32:12.087
is where we had expectations in some ways quite
00:32:12.087 --> 00:32:14.907
big expectations and here is where i can say
00:32:14.907 --> 00:32:18.867
maybe our expectations um well
00:32:18.867 --> 00:32:22.027
rather i can say i was disappointed because in some
00:32:22.027 --> 00:32:25.607
for some business cases it was like uh
00:32:25.607 --> 00:32:28.467
be fast be first and with that
00:32:28.467 --> 00:32:31.507
we all also failed first right but it
00:32:31.507 --> 00:32:34.547
was okay it was not in production it was something that
00:32:34.547 --> 00:32:38.027
we were playing with yeah um we also discovered uh
00:32:38.027 --> 00:32:41.327
during the time that we are playing with it that what for
00:32:41.327 --> 00:32:44.387
what actually we can use it and it's a
00:32:44.387 --> 00:32:47.187
fantastic assistant yeah to each and every
00:32:47.187 --> 00:32:49.927
employee if they are willing to use it
00:32:49.927 --> 00:32:52.627
yeah um and on top of
00:32:52.627 --> 00:32:55.567
that now i'm coming to the ai uh success story so
00:32:55.567 --> 00:32:58.927
far we have implemented one of the ai uh
00:32:58.927 --> 00:33:04.087
partner solutions so it's not built within the bank yeah we've made sure that
00:33:04.087 --> 00:33:08.427
all the security that it's needed through like regulation and whatever is covered
00:33:08.427 --> 00:33:14.427
so we are fine with that and then we implement it into the end of june into
00:33:14.427 --> 00:33:17.847
our first process the one of the ai tools that we have.
00:33:18.047 --> 00:33:25.707
And actually confirmed the KPIs that were set, so actually from 35 minutes to 2 minutes of.
00:33:26.689 --> 00:33:30.649
Being done the work, right? It's fantastic, yeah. And maybe the biggest win
00:33:30.649 --> 00:33:33.029
here is that the seniors got involved.
00:33:33.269 --> 00:33:36.649
I mean, for everybody, that was the biggest surprise, I would say,
00:33:36.769 --> 00:33:42.689
because the seniors actually today are using this solution, working with it
00:33:42.689 --> 00:33:45.289
daily, seeing the results.
00:33:46.709 --> 00:33:54.169
And if needed, even do the changes in the models that are set.
00:33:54.749 --> 00:33:57.689
I mean, they have learned so much about the solution and
00:33:57.689 --> 00:34:00.709
the solution is so user friendly that actually the
00:34:00.709 --> 00:34:03.569
employee can do some changes within it and and that's
00:34:03.569 --> 00:34:06.489
what we're looking for right not to be dependent on our
00:34:06.489 --> 00:34:09.349
internal it or the provider yeah yeah but
00:34:09.349 --> 00:34:12.049
we have a chance to do it ourselves you have the keys to
00:34:12.049 --> 00:34:15.249
the car we have the keys to the car that i mean that's fantastic so
00:34:15.249 --> 00:34:18.309
the efficiency here was absolutely as we expected it
00:34:18.309 --> 00:34:21.069
to be it sounds like leading from the top because actually if you get that senior
00:34:21.069 --> 00:34:24.149
buy-in and people see that that's just
00:34:24.149 --> 00:34:26.889
an extra motivation for well if they're using it
00:34:26.889 --> 00:34:29.709
and they're trusting it then we absolutely
00:34:29.709 --> 00:34:33.049
need to ourselves but it's great that you get that buy-in we
00:34:33.049 --> 00:34:36.129
we do have i mean the the support from top management
00:34:36.129 --> 00:34:41.609
is fantastic i i mean i really i can honestly say that and the buy-in on the
00:34:41.609 --> 00:34:46.549
operational level as i mentioned at the beginning well that's where the the
00:34:46.549 --> 00:34:50.549
the magic happens when you have the buying on operational level actually that's
00:34:50.549 --> 00:34:53.869
when the magic happens um because um.
00:34:54.821 --> 00:35:00.021
This is a step-by-step approach, and if you are successful with something that
00:35:00.021 --> 00:35:04.781
you're doing, and you show it, and you say to everybody who's interested,
00:35:04.921 --> 00:35:07.861
right, come and see. Let us show you what we've done.
00:35:08.561 --> 00:35:12.761
And a lot of people are interested. I know we often say that people don't like
00:35:12.761 --> 00:35:15.921
changes, but they're curious. If nothing else, they're curious, right?
00:35:16.101 --> 00:35:21.701
So a lot of people come and want to see what we've done. And then they start
00:35:21.701 --> 00:35:24.801
thinking, oh, my God, maybe I can use that in my process.
00:35:26.641 --> 00:35:31.801
But maybe just not to forget, because I didn't mention it, and it's very important,
00:35:32.101 --> 00:35:33.981
always start with the process.
00:35:34.141 --> 00:35:38.301
Because there's a hard rule that I really follow.
00:35:39.501 --> 00:35:45.501
Don't robotize. Don't implement AI. Don't do anything if the process is not good.
00:35:45.981 --> 00:35:49.061
Absolutely agree. Yeah. So that's also one of the key points.
00:35:49.061 --> 00:35:53.441
I often see, or I have seen, really speak over some of the old shops that I
00:35:53.441 --> 00:35:58.341
used to work at, where they would go out and buy a new piece of technology.
00:35:59.721 --> 00:36:02.541
And, you know, it doesn't quite fit the way they do it today.
00:36:02.741 --> 00:36:05.661
Not necessarily in the first line, but maybe in second line functions,
00:36:06.041 --> 00:36:12.821
the risk functions, where they'd end up trying to shape the technology to fit their current process.
00:36:14.301 --> 00:36:18.161
Rather than shape the process to fit the technology and then evolve with it.
00:36:18.161 --> 00:36:22.161
So you end up spending all this money to do something exactly the same.
00:36:23.682 --> 00:36:26.602
But you're a couple of million down yeah and that
00:36:26.602 --> 00:36:30.122
we keep going back to culture mindset and the
00:36:30.122 --> 00:36:32.742
kind of keep constantly asking why are we doing this why are we doing this why
00:36:32.742 --> 00:36:37.082
are we doing this and i mean to be honest mark we we've all done that right
00:36:37.082 --> 00:36:43.122
in the past i also have experience uh thinking that buying another solution
00:36:43.122 --> 00:36:49.682
will solve all the issues yeah i mean you just have another solution in the VAT process.
00:36:50.142 --> 00:36:54.822
These are the hard lessons that we learn. And there is investment in that.
00:36:55.022 --> 00:37:00.042
And for sure, you didn't solve the problem and you have just another application to use.
00:37:00.242 --> 00:37:03.142
So these are the lessons learned.
00:37:03.402 --> 00:37:06.702
I think we have to keep in mind constantly
00:37:06.702 --> 00:37:09.842
when discussing which solution
00:37:09.842 --> 00:37:12.702
is a solution and when to go into
00:37:12.702 --> 00:37:15.842
the investment of buying new either ai tool
00:37:15.842 --> 00:37:19.562
or whichever solution on the market that we need so start
00:37:19.562 --> 00:37:22.622
with the process do the the homework
00:37:22.622 --> 00:37:25.562
on the process and then see what you
00:37:25.562 --> 00:37:29.402
actually need yeah yeah and i guess with ai with great
00:37:29.402 --> 00:37:32.782
power comes great responsibility in that you
00:37:32.782 --> 00:37:36.222
are you're you're trusting these
00:37:36.222 --> 00:37:39.322
tools to make decisions to create processes
00:37:39.322 --> 00:37:42.042
do things a new way and eventually you're going to put
00:37:42.042 --> 00:37:44.762
them in the hands of customers who might be quite
00:37:44.762 --> 00:37:47.922
fearful of the transparency or the ethics
00:37:47.922 --> 00:37:50.862
or whatever it might be that's powering it how did
00:37:50.862 --> 00:37:55.782
um how did you have those conversations and cross those barriers that's at your
00:37:55.782 --> 00:38:00.882
bank and you know how did you set yourself up so that you was you had the right
00:38:00.882 --> 00:38:04.442
policies and the right governance in place to allow yourself to comfortably
00:38:04.442 --> 00:38:09.382
sit there and go you know what we're good with this and we can show auditability,
00:38:09.562 --> 00:38:11.362
we can show traceability. Yeah.
00:38:11.862 --> 00:38:13.942
I would say for us, um.
00:38:15.194 --> 00:38:21.614
The smart decision was the decision, okay, let's try with the AI.
00:38:24.054 --> 00:38:28.634
Try in a manner that only affects internal processes at the beginning.
00:38:28.634 --> 00:38:29.414
Yeah, so go internal first.
00:38:29.554 --> 00:38:32.494
So don't go towards clients at the beginning.
00:38:34.234 --> 00:38:40.794
Have a solution or either from the partner or either we build it ourselves that
00:38:40.794 --> 00:38:42.894
we really understand how it works.
00:38:42.894 --> 00:38:51.774
So for now, we are in the production with the solution that actually demands training the modules.
00:38:52.194 --> 00:38:56.234
So you train them. You train them with your data. You train them.
00:38:56.734 --> 00:39:01.374
And we still have a human in the loop, to be honest. And that's interesting. It's not end-to-end.
00:39:01.634 --> 00:39:05.134
You need it still. Yeah. We still have a human in the loop. Yeah.
00:39:05.834 --> 00:39:09.714
We need to be really sure and comfortable with.
00:39:10.828 --> 00:39:13.888
Whenever the day comes to say okay this
00:39:13.888 --> 00:39:16.948
doesn't need to be monitored anymore i don't know when this
00:39:16.948 --> 00:39:20.588
will happen yeah but for sure efficiency is much
00:39:20.588 --> 00:39:23.508
better in the processes where we have it yeah but we
00:39:23.508 --> 00:39:26.328
were aware that the human will still be in the loop yeah i
00:39:26.328 --> 00:39:29.828
think it's uh i think you're a spot on um having
00:39:29.828 --> 00:39:33.468
an internal focus first it goes back to it sort of about before that
00:39:33.468 --> 00:39:36.988
modular approach cutting it into pieces little business
00:39:36.988 --> 00:39:40.308
case little use cases that we can trust and get internal
00:39:40.308 --> 00:39:43.128
buy-in senior buying colleagues buying people using it
00:39:43.128 --> 00:39:45.908
people trusting it and get momentum and then
00:39:45.908 --> 00:39:48.588
you start to look at okay how do we
00:39:48.588 --> 00:39:52.288
start to deploy it in more customer facing places
00:39:52.288 --> 00:39:55.508
where it's not replacing humans it's empowering humans
00:39:55.508 --> 00:39:59.928
for want of a better word because banking you
00:39:59.928 --> 00:40:02.968
know over generations it's always a relationship
00:40:02.968 --> 00:40:05.988
between customer and bank
00:40:05.988 --> 00:40:09.408
you know mine goes back you know as i said like nearly 65 years
00:40:09.408 --> 00:40:12.708
in my family so it's still quite personal um
00:40:12.708 --> 00:40:15.648
and the trust is the key and the trust is the key word so
00:40:15.648 --> 00:40:20.068
it's it's the marriage it's the balance between ai
00:40:20.068 --> 00:40:22.988
and human making sure that the ai does maybe
00:40:22.988 --> 00:40:26.008
the mundane the repetitive as you say that the kind
00:40:26.008 --> 00:40:28.988
of robotic piece but then frees up.
00:40:28.988 --> 00:40:32.588
The banker the bank to show
00:40:32.588 --> 00:40:35.508
that empathetic the relationship the personal
00:40:35.508 --> 00:40:38.148
touch human touch side of things and i think if you get that
00:40:38.148 --> 00:40:40.968
balance right that marriage right that's where you're
00:40:40.968 --> 00:40:45.628
going to create usps and succeed in in the market yeah i agree completely this
00:40:45.628 --> 00:40:51.068
is why we are on the path as we are right having still human touch wherever
00:40:51.068 --> 00:40:57.268
we are in which whatever process we are discussing um building this trust because
00:40:57.268 --> 00:41:00.268
i think the trust as i mentioned now uh
00:41:00.637 --> 00:41:03.497
the most important thing between the client
00:41:03.497 --> 00:41:06.417
and the bank i mean once you don't trust your
00:41:06.417 --> 00:41:09.517
bank it's game over right absolutely yeah so
00:41:09.517 --> 00:41:12.437
this is something that we need to keep in
00:41:12.437 --> 00:41:15.957
mind all of us working banking industry and from
00:41:15.957 --> 00:41:18.757
another side we are all customers also right
00:41:18.757 --> 00:41:21.557
so um that this is something
00:41:21.557 --> 00:41:24.537
that we need to be careful about and always of
00:41:24.537 --> 00:41:27.317
course be compliant make the as much
00:41:27.317 --> 00:41:30.017
as possible on the security this is why we
00:41:30.017 --> 00:41:33.477
have these solutions in the closed environments so
00:41:33.477 --> 00:41:36.597
no external no connection
00:41:36.597 --> 00:41:41.237
to internet nothing it's it's totally isolated from
00:41:41.237 --> 00:41:47.437
other things because we are at the beginning right we are using it but controlled
00:41:47.437 --> 00:41:54.837
and still really careful and And I've just been in Frankfurt last week on the
00:41:54.837 --> 00:41:58.197
conference on banking and usage of AI.
00:41:58.697 --> 00:42:05.837
And I can say that we all agreed that, yeah, let's have AI. Let's take it into our processes.
00:42:06.817 --> 00:42:09.617
But carefully and with the human in the loop.
00:42:09.757 --> 00:42:13.297
That was the conclusion. I agree. I agree. And I guess we're coming to kind
00:42:13.297 --> 00:42:14.937
of the close of the podcast.
00:42:15.157 --> 00:42:18.637
So I always like to kind of put a future lens on it.
00:42:19.317 --> 00:42:24.197
And I guess, for the Serbian market in particular, what do you think is going
00:42:24.197 --> 00:42:25.597
to be more important in the next two or three years?
00:42:25.737 --> 00:42:32.117
Is it going to be adoption of AI or is it going to be modernization or just
00:42:32.117 --> 00:42:35.857
transformation of the core element of the bank?
00:42:36.377 --> 00:42:38.837
Which one would you say is probably more important or is it a blend?
00:42:40.057 --> 00:42:44.217
Absolutely a blend. I wouldn't say that one is more important than the other.
00:42:44.217 --> 00:42:50.997
We, in the times that we're living, we have to do all at the same time.
00:42:51.717 --> 00:42:55.697
Yeah. So transform, digitalize, modernize.
00:42:56.370 --> 00:43:03.990
And meaning technology and the culture in the bank of the employees and in parallel
00:43:03.990 --> 00:43:08.290
work on the education of our customers.
00:43:08.570 --> 00:43:12.630
Because also the market, such as it is, you've noticed, right,
00:43:12.710 --> 00:43:15.590
that there is still cash. It's not totally digital.
00:43:16.030 --> 00:43:22.490
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So also, I think one of the key things that the banks
00:43:22.490 --> 00:43:28.410
also have to work on strongly is to give the customers the opportunity to learn
00:43:28.410 --> 00:43:30.090
and to trust the digital world.
00:43:30.270 --> 00:43:34.370
The youngers don't have an issue, right? They are there. They are aware.
00:43:34.710 --> 00:43:38.430
Mostly they are aware of all the dangers. But the generations,
00:43:38.870 --> 00:43:46.110
I don't know, above 50, maybe 60, they need to learn that and they need to see
00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:51.650
that the cash is not the only way to go, that you can trust the card, you can trust the phone.
00:43:52.530 --> 00:43:57.710
So that requires the culture, the cultural change, the mindsets change,
00:43:57.870 --> 00:44:01.830
the technological change, the business model of the banks, actually.
00:44:01.830 --> 00:44:05.170
So i would say work on every
00:44:05.170 --> 00:44:08.570
possible aspect you can yeah and be careful
00:44:08.570 --> 00:44:11.510
safe fast and everything that comes with
00:44:11.510 --> 00:44:14.590
it what's your one piece of as we
00:44:14.590 --> 00:44:18.250
end the podcast what's your one piece of advice for your
00:44:18.250 --> 00:44:21.870
peers and colleagues in in here in serbia that
00:44:21.870 --> 00:44:27.250
they could take away from what you've done in terms of a successful digital
00:44:27.250 --> 00:44:31.610
transformation on ai delivery what's the what's the one nugget you say you know
00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:35.090
what i wish and wish somebody told me that before that's something i've learned
00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:38.910
and pass that on to to your colleagues so they can have the success you've had,
00:44:39.930 --> 00:44:45.550
i think it's a no-brainer i've said it before right always give a chance to
00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:52.030
the quietest person in the room always um hear them out think about it,
00:44:52.995 --> 00:44:58.195
And see where this can take you in the future. Maybe resolve the issues before they occur.
00:44:59.975 --> 00:45:03.995
Have all the stakeholders together. Yeah, have all the stakeholders together.
00:45:04.315 --> 00:45:08.275
Have the tech team, have the business team at the same table,
00:45:08.275 --> 00:45:11.175
in the same room, as much as possible.
00:45:11.495 --> 00:45:15.275
In these days, we are, of course, a lot working from home.
00:45:15.575 --> 00:45:20.255
But people do want to come to office, to be honest. They do want to see their
00:45:20.255 --> 00:45:22.315
colleagues. They do want to have that coffee.
00:45:23.015 --> 00:45:26.135
Collaboration and collaboration so use
00:45:26.135 --> 00:45:29.535
that moments to give them into the it either
00:45:29.535 --> 00:45:32.415
for a task either for a project it doesn't matter
00:45:32.415 --> 00:45:35.955
um have them in one room so that
00:45:35.955 --> 00:45:39.655
they all get to hear the same information that
00:45:39.655 --> 00:45:42.675
they all understand that they are a part of the same
00:45:42.675 --> 00:45:45.735
team yeah uh it's not them it's
00:45:45.735 --> 00:45:49.095
not us but we are all us yeah um
00:45:49.095 --> 00:45:52.175
and if that means include external partners
00:45:52.175 --> 00:45:54.995
also they are a part of our team if
00:45:54.995 --> 00:45:58.335
we are working with external partners we need to behave
00:45:58.335 --> 00:46:01.395
like we are all in one team absolutely so two take
00:46:01.395 --> 00:46:05.155
two takes from this i would say always hear
00:46:05.155 --> 00:46:07.955
the quietest person and always make sure
00:46:07.955 --> 00:46:10.635
people are together as one team yeah i
00:46:10.635 --> 00:46:13.555
love that co-creation collaboration sense of
00:46:13.555 --> 00:46:16.555
ownership across all the stakeholders in the bank and
00:46:16.555 --> 00:46:22.815
external vendors every the kind of we are the us yeah i love that um well look
00:46:22.815 --> 00:46:27.755
this is your first ever appearance on the podcast first ever wow you've done
00:46:27.755 --> 00:46:33.195
fantastic it was very easy mark thank you you you did a great job well i'm now
00:46:33.195 --> 00:46:36.435
expecting to uh for you to host your own one.
00:46:37.355 --> 00:46:41.435
And invite you and i'll come on as a be your first guest but i think you'll
00:46:41.435 --> 00:46:46.895
make a a fantastic host but all joining aside really do appreciate your work
00:46:46.895 --> 00:46:48.075
this morning on the panels.
00:46:49.035 --> 00:46:53.635
Agreeing to be as I said my next victim on the podcast yeah you did a fantastic
00:46:53.635 --> 00:46:57.075
job wish you all the success you,
00:46:57.532 --> 00:47:01.632
um in your in your next deliveries i'm sure they'll they'll do really well and
00:47:01.632 --> 00:47:07.492
i'll be keeping a real kind kind ear and eye on what uh what the future brings
00:47:07.492 --> 00:47:10.892
for for you and your bank so thank you very much thank you mark.