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The Profit Constructors presents Construction Junction, the junction between
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accounting and construction.
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Please welcome our host, Tanya Schulte.
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Hi, everyone. I'm Tanya Schulte. Welcome back to this edition of the Construction Junction podcast.
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If you have been listening to this podcast for any length of time,
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you know that I'm pretty passionate about subcontractors and the space in which
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they land as far as how they take on a lot of risk and how better ways that
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we can help them mitigate that risk. There's so many ways.
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I mean, if we think about it from an accounting standpoint, one of the things
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that we are consistently counseling our subcontractor clients on is how can
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we build up the right kind of
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capital to be able to manage through some of those harder periods, right?
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Cash being everything that it is and how you need to have cash to have a business run.
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One of the things that we talk about all the time is let's make sure that we
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have a good line of credit available.
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Let's make sure that we have cash on hand for in the event that that is necessary.
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You know, we have to make payroll. We have to buy materials,
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all those types of things.
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And we're going to be talking more about that in our podcast later today as
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when our Our guest joins us.
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But from the accounting standpoint, which is really where I come from,
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I'm all about helping clients really mitigate that risk.
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You know, we use a lot of tools on the accounting side of things.
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So again, we help you with a cash management system where you're basically like
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putting money aside in envelopes.
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Basically, it's like the Dave Ramsey system on steroids.
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And some of that can really help. A lot of our clients will often tease and
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call it the internal line of credit. it.
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So we love to help the subcontractor clients that we work with mitigate that
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type of thing that if something goes wrong, and you're not being paid,
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and you need to go and dispute that and take care of that, you'll have the cash,
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the funds, the finances, and the ability to continue moving your business forward
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when something goes wrong.
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But let's think about what's better than doing that. Well, what would be even
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better than that would be mitigating as much risk as possible.
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Now, any lawyer will tell you, and I have some really good construction lawyer
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friends, some of them have been on this podcast.
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Any lawyer will tell you, you can't mitigate all of the risk.
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That's just not possible, right?
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But what you can do is start thinking about what are better ways to handle contracts?
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What are better ways to handle the things that we are taking on?
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And if you start to think through those things up front, your business will be elevated.
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And so the guest that we're going to be talking to today has a really great
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solution for helping you do that, right?
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And really, if you think about it, what does everything boil down to in our
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society and in the way that we interact with one another?
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It's contracts, right? So much of what we do is on a contract basis.
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And in the construction world, everything comes down to that contract.
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And if we start at the very beginning of every project, just sort of blindly
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signing the dotted line on every contract, we're not really taking the time
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to think through how is each one of these contracts that I'm signing affecting my business?
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And what should I be thinking about when I go down that road?
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And what types of things am I not being protected on? Or am I just blindly signing away?
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So it's my advice to you to not do that.
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And I would love for you to stick around because you're going to hear from an
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expert that's It's about to show up in just a few minutes on how to get around
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doing that and how to do it in a way that does not going to cost you an arm
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and a leg, right? So let's talk about that.
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We'll come back in just a few minutes and we'll talk with my friend Kian. We'll be right back.
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If you would like to share your company or product on the Construction Junction,
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email hello at theprofitconstructors.com to become a sponsor.
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Welcome back to this next segment of the Construction Junction podcast.
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I am your host, Tanya Schulte. I'm here with Kian of Quantum.
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Kian, tell us a little bit about Quantum and what Quantum is. How did it get started?
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Well, Quantum is an online company that helps construction subcontractors with their contracts.
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It helps them negotiate better contracts up front, and it helps them manage
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their contracts, all their paperwork, and give them access to experts.
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So before Quantum, to get that level of expertise, you'd have to pay day rates,
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or you'd have to employ someone internally, and it would cost you a lot of money.
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Now, you can get that information, you can get that access to doing all the
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letter writing and change orders
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and all of that stuff that most people don't want to do in a business.
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They'd rather just get on with delivering the work on site.
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And yeah, we're experts at that. that. Yeah.
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And I think as you know, when you and I chatted before this,
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I sit on the local chapter board for our American Subcontractors Association.
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And this is a subject that's really near and dear to my heart because as you
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have expressed to me, if we don't get the subcontract right.
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That's like the foundation of everything else, right?
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If it crumbles, tell us what could could go wrong i
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mean what's at stake here five to
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fifteen percent yeah yeah that's that's
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it right and that's that's been shown many times over
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you know many different studies and so what
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you like when you're in bed
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with a gc or main contractor depending where you
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are in the world yeah that five to
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fifteen percent is up for grabs someone's going
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to take that five to fifteen percent is it it going to be you as
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a subcontractor or is it going to be is it
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going to be the gc right that's what the contracts is because
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if you think about the contracts it's it's
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the money side of construction it sets up the set of rules
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about how risk is is
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is transferred and how money is transferred
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between parties and what will happen
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is when you get a contract from a gc they
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you you very rarely see standard contracts
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and actual standard contract anymore right so the aia
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if you see that on its own great that's
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good right right but they're always amended right so they look like a standard
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contract but they're actually not or they just have a their own contract that's
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been written for lawyers and what what have they what they've done is they've
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pushed all the risk onto you and made it so they can have better cash flow themselves.
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Because GCs are, if you think about it again, are a finance company.
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They get a loan from the bank to finance a project. They win a project from
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a client, so they get paid from the client.
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And they subcontract out all the work, and they get paid on the delta between the two.
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So the game that they're playing is about cash flow and margin.
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And so if they can withhold a lot of that and push the risk down to you,
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then they're going to do better.
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Now, the thing that a lot of people don't understand is when they give you their
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worst contract to sign, that's the starting point. It's not the end point.
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And they're expecting you to negotiate. When you don't negotiate,
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they don't think that you're easy to deal with. They think you're green.
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And so what I always tell all of our clients is, think of the biggest subcontractor
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in your field, right? The biggest guy, the $100 million company that's doing
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what you do. Do you think they don't negotiate their contracts?
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They do. And they do aggressively. Every time.
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And they know what they want the contract to say. They know what they want the
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contract to say. And that's the front end.
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And then the back end is managing the contract.
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So making sure that you're getting...
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If you get your changes approved and your delays approved, That's the main thing
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that you want to be getting approved. If you get those things approved quickly.
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You're good right but if if it's the other way right
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as first of all if you miss a change or if you miss a delay or
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contractually you miss it as well your time bar
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do you have a certain amount of time to respond and you don't do it then you're
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just doing work for free essentially right and you're or you're taking on their
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delay as your delay and so you're just eating that cost that's where the five
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to fifteen percent comes in yeah and so if you think about it as well let's
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just just take a bit of an example of a change.
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And I think you'll be all over this as, as, as a kid, as accountants from a
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cashflow, cashflow kills companies.
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It's not like there's no big bang, right? People think I went out of business.
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It was just this big bang out of business. No, that's not how it works.
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What happens is your cashflow gets restricted, tighter, tighter,
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tighter, you can't pay your guys.
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You like you living in this constant world of anxiety about like money coming in the door.
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Your financing cost goes up, you're bridging finance to, to be able to do it.
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And so if we look at the change, right, let's just say you're on site and you're
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asked to do additional work, right, which happens all the time or change what
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you're currently doing, which is also a change, which also costs you money.
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And so you do that work and let's just, let's just go through an example where
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they do actually pay you, right?
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But you, it takes you ages to get that paperwork in, right?
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So you did month one, right? You do the work and then towards the end of the
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month, you get that change in, right? right? Okay. Then they approve it.
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Then maybe, right. In the following months you get paid for it,
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right? So 60 days later, right?
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And that's just because you're slow at it. That's not their,
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that's not their problem. You're just slow at it.
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That's hit your, that's hit your cashflow. You're one month behind on your cashflow,
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right? And these things really matter to a construction business.
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If you could do it quickly, like really quick, the change happens,
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you get your paperwork in, you get it approved really quickly,
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and then you get, you get payment for it that month. It's going to make a massive
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difference to your business.
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Yeah, it's huge. I think having actually just listened to some experts talking
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about like pay when paid and pay if paid clauses, which I'm sure you're very familiar with.
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And one of the things that they were mentioning, and I just to kind of harken
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back to something you said a little bit earlier, kind of caught my ear.
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It used to be, if we look back at the history of like why the AIA even came
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into existence, the architects were taking on all of the risk, right?
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So what did they want to do? They wanted to transfer the risk to the GCs.
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And for a long time, there really was a lot of risk being taken by the GC.
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They were managing everything. And so it really just, everything flows downhill,
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right? Who's at the end? Right now, it's the subcontractor.
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It's it just if you know what's i don't i
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don't i don't want to curse on this podcast but you know
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the proverbial flows downhill it's a
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construction podcast you can say whatever you need to and i
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was i'm the daughter of truck drivers so yeah it does okay well the shift flows
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downhill right basically yeah so that's it but like if you think about it all
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the pwc deloitte's all of these bains all of these guys have come into big gcs
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and said from a risk perspective From a cashflow perspective,
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you need, you need to do this right.
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And, and, you know, people think GCs are these big, bad companies and some of
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them are, some of them are, are aggressive, right?
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But most of them just are just playing the business game.
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Right. And you as a subcontractor also need to play because,
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and this is it, the game is being played, whether you're not playing it,
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whether you decide to play it or not, if you, if you decide,
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okay, I'm just not playing this, I'm not going to negotiate,
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I'm just going to rely on my relationships.
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Relationships which a lot of people do well basically you've
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just you're you're playing the game so you're
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not playing the game but the plane's just it's just happening and you're just
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taking on the risk and you're just you're just you're just eating it basically
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you're playing the game and you're playing it completely under someone else's
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rules with no say in what the rules of the game are and and you have some leeway
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to say what rules you would prefer to operate under.
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I love it so tell us more about how i love this is all really great background
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on like why is this this important right this is really fantastic how does quantum
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actually help with all of this.
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So ultimately what we're talking about is the
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five to fifteen percent more margin on each project and
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cash flow that's the that's the top line right so that's that's what everybody
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wants and so a lot of construction subcontractors if you think about where they
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started from right it's and if you think about the the person the person or
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the family a lot of these guys are family businesses right,
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which is important to me, they.
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Started off as a one-man band right the
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the person themselves was probably an excellent trade
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trades person right really good at the specific thing
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that they did and because of that they got a
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reputation for doing great work right and they grew
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and then you get to the stage where start getting bigger projects and then it
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kind of turns over instead of being that small business you become a medium-sized
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business and it's that changeover of the people that you're you're playing and
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the game that you're playing that people miss, right?
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And there's that, okay. And all of a sudden it's not just these smaller projects.
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I'm working on bigger projects.
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Now all of these bigger projects have this and they don't learn the money side
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or the game of the construction, the business of construction,
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if you think about it, they're still, if they look at the departments that they
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have in a construction business,
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they are really only a delivery apartment, right?
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I can deliver this project, production, whatever it is, right?
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But they're lacking a contracts department they're lacking potentially also accountancy as well.
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And it's that evolution of the company that needs to grow and so really how we help is,
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people need people working on their contracts so
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they could they can they can outsource to a lawyer one of
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like one at a time which is ultimately if you
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do that every single time it's gonna it's gonna cost you a lot of money you could
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hire and then but then that lawyer won't do the post award word stuff right
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which is different so then the you can hire internally right so the problem
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with hiring internally is you mightn't have it there's a skill set involved
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so you mightn't have the right skill set you might have people that leave all
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that sort of stuff and it's expensive so so.
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What we do is we plug in to their company.
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We negotiate all their contracts for them, right?
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Do a read through all the contracts, all of the hundreds and hundreds of pages of contracts.
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We highlight all the risks. We say, hey, here are all the risks,
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which is step one. And this is kind of where a lawyer would stop, right?
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But then because we've done over 5,000 of these, we have a framework that allows
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us to negotiate the best outcomes. So we'll also prepare the negotiation documents
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that clearly says, we don't agree to this.
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Here's why we don't agree to this. And here's what we want you to do instead.
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And we list them all down.
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And that's a skill set on its own that because of our data set,
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we're able to do really well because we know some stuff can't be negotiated.
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Negotiated right some so there might be some insurance
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provisions or a certain parts of a
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gc's contract that we know for their own internal
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compliance that they will never negotiate right so you might you might like
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that and that's and that's that's fair but we know they won't negotiate it so
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instead of trying to negotiate i think we won't we'll go hard on the things
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that we know that they can negotiate that make the most difference to your bottom
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line and to your cash So that's,
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that's the, the front end and then the back end is all the paperwork that's involved with changes,
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delays, disputes, we'll do all of that.
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And you'll have access to experts.
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You'll have a weekly sync call with, with your team. And so we typically plug into project managers.
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So if you imagine we kind of give project managers arms and legs,
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so they, if a project manager is on a project, we're, we're hooking up with
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that guy and we're We're like, okay, whenever there's a change,
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whenever there's a delay, you let us know.
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We'll meet with them once a week, whenever there's a dispute.
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Before you get into the dispute, get on the call.
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We'll develop a strategy to get around this dispute, to avoid the dispute,
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and to get you paid. That's it in a nutshell.
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I think it's a fantastic service. I think there's so much value in there.
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I'm going to dive in just a little bit deeper on a couple of things.
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Earlier, you said, you know, change orders are a huge, huge thing,
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right? And I think it's very important.
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There are so many, again, when you've reached that medium business stage,
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now you started hiring a couple of project managers, maybe dad that started
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the company was project managing everything and he can't take it on anymore.
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And project managers really want to please their boss, the owner of the company,
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and they really want to be the GC.
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And so when they're standing on the job site and the guy says,
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hey, can you get over there and get that done for me? It's going to delay the
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project by a week if you don't walk over there right now and get it done.
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What does he want to do? He wants to walk over there and get it done. Yeah.
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And so how do you guys interface with the project managers and help them sort
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of elevate what they're doing so that they can please everybody but still keep
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the company from having so much risk on those change orders?
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Yeah. So this is a problem with project managers, right? And so if you think
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about a project manager and the type of person, again, they're problem solvers.
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They're constant problem solvers. They might be a project manager.
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A lot of these project managers could be engineers as well, right?
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Or supervisors, right? So whatever. It's kind of different roles in different businesses.
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But they're problem solvers. They're the get-shit-done people,
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right? And that's what you want from a project manager.
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You want your project manager to get shit done, right? Right.
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So he's going to go and do it. But the problem is they're not the type of person
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that's going to come back to the the the office and do the paperwork immediately.
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They're going to put it on the lock because they've got so much on their plate.
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They've got all these problems on their place.
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And then you expect them to come back after hours and then do the do the change
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order immediately. Just doesn't have the time to do it. Right.
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That's that's that's what we see a lot over and over and over again.
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We see that particular problem and it's not their skill set.
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I don't know how to do it in a proper way. And so the bottom line with your question is.
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Go and do the work right get the instruction
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get the instruction written right okay instructions to do the
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work and submit the change order that day or the
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next day or or sorry or the notice you probably had
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there's a notice provision in the country submit the notice that day
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i asked to do something something here's the change
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order now with that leads
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to more problems i can see people shuffling in their seats i don't
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00:18:51,523
want to i don't i don't i don't want to rock the
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boat here or I don't whatever I want to be seen as really easy
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to deal with yeah now there's two different things
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00:19:00,703
you want to be right you can be a pushover and be easy to
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deal with or they can respect you and
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think you're very professional right the latter is is
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the way to go and so how to do that
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is essentially you want
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to like if you start midway through a
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project or towards the end this what typically happens right in a
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construction project people do nothing the first first quarter
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00:19:24,483
of the project is all going really really well everyone's happy yeah we're
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00:19:27,243
doing stuff we're doing additional stuff oh we'll get that change order
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00:19:30,043
in oh yeah it's all good then it goes on and then
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in the last quarter stuff's not getting paid cash
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flow is really tight you try and get all these change orders in and then they
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start rejecting left right and center your time barred no i don't agree with
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that right so all everything and then then they get annoyed as well and fair
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because you've been this passive guy the whole way through the project and then
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at the end you're You're just banging in all of this stuff, right? And now they're...
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So if you just put on their side, their project managers' hat.
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His project is tracking it down lovely, right?
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All of a sudden, this subcontractor is going to increase the cost massively.
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And it could be delays, right?
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Which makes him look bad. However...
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If you're, if you, that's the wrong way to do it. If the right way to do it
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is as the project goes from the very start, you start submitting notices and
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change orders and delays like very quickly as they happen, right?
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They go, Oh, these guys are switched on. They know what they're doing.
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That's what the big companies do. Right.
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And then they just think you're a super professional. They're switched on.
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They know, they know about everything.
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They're really good at what they do. And when actually what happens is your cashflow is better.
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You're, which gives you breathing room. you're gonna be
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making a bit more money which is great which means you can't
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afford to do additional stuff right you might find yourself
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00:20:50,457
in a in a in a in a project where now you're
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00:20:53,437
asking you to do additional stuff maybe get more guys on on site
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00:20:58,097
and you're already tight on cash flow and you can't do the additional work and
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00:21:00,237
they're like we're asking you to do additional stuff and you're not doing it
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00:21:04,217
and you're like oh i can't do it i've got no cash flow so it makes you end up
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00:21:09,577
looking worse and getting like a bad reputation i love what you said about thinking
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00:21:11,657
Thinking about it from the other project manager's standpoint,
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00:21:16,117
I mean, that's customer service 101 is make them the hero of the story, right?
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If they're able to bring the change order back to the owner right away and say,
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00:21:23,177
you know, because this happened, this is going to increase the price.
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00:21:25,477
And that happens right the same day that it's talked about.
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00:21:29,017
Everybody knows that's the thing that happened. That's what created the change.
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00:21:32,897
And everybody's on the same page. they're going to look so much more professional
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00:21:36,617
in the eyes of the owner that they're building this for than they are if they
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00:21:40,037
have to shove in you know hundreds of thousands fifty thousand dollars worth
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00:21:42,777
of change orders right at the end they don't look professional either and so
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00:21:44,477
you have to see they don't want
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00:21:46,897
that they don't want to appear unprofessional in front of their owners.
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00:21:50,277
And if you do it at the start the amounts and and
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00:21:53,137
as they happen the amounts are smaller yes right
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00:21:55,777
and so they're like it's not too hard to get approved because it's all
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00:21:58,697
well we asked him to do this additional thing right and he's
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00:22:01,577
like oh yeah fair it's just it's just whatever a certain amount
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00:22:04,437
of money yeah it's simply a psychological thing it doesn't even look like
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00:22:07,157
that much money even if it's the exact same amount at the end of
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00:22:10,717
the project all told oh yeah exactly 100 yeah
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00:22:13,837
i love it what do you
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00:22:16,737
guys work with a particular software are you sort
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00:22:19,557
of software agnostic is there anything that it's a software come
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00:22:22,957
into it or is it really just a one-on-one people thing it we
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00:22:26,177
because it's a people business and it's a relationship business
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00:22:29,077
right so it is it is
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00:22:32,077
people right so obviously we have our own software
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00:22:34,677
internally so when people submit all of
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00:22:39,257
this stuff to us we we can manage it and organize it in a specific way perfect
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00:22:43,217
but the people side of it is it's a service right so service-based business
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00:22:49,037
now there's nuances in these things where if someone submits someone lets us
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00:22:52,577
know we have been delayed right and And,
379
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00:22:57,717
or so we have been delayed or we have had a change, but.
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00:23:01,888
They're promising us all this additional work if we just go ahead and do it.
381
00:23:02,148 -->
00:23:04,648
Right. Right? And say nothing. Yeah.
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00:23:05,308 -->
00:23:08,028
Then we want to, like, because if it was software, they just pumped it out.
383
00:23:08,468 -->
00:23:11,408
Right. Right? Which is, then it's, oh, that goes away.
384
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00:23:14,708
And there's these little smart nuances that people want. Like,
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00:23:18,008
they want to make business decisions like that. So we'll prepare the paperwork
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00:23:19,308
and give it back to the PM.
387
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00:23:24,768
And we'll still empower the PM to make that decision. Okay, it's all done. It's all ready to go.
388
00:23:25,128 -->
00:23:27,968
Right? We've done it all. but if you don't
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00:23:31,388
want to submit it because of something like this right then
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00:23:34,288
don't yeah right or or
391
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00:23:37,208
or do right so we can
392
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00:23:40,328
have that conversation and jump on a call and be like okay well let's
393
00:23:40,328 -->
00:23:43,408
let's just be real here if they're gonna give you an additional two
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00:23:46,488
million dollars one million dollars worth of work on this other side if
395
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00:23:49,288
you just eat this particular thing because you're you're safe you're making
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00:23:49,288 -->
00:23:52,008
the project manager safe face might be a
397
00:23:52,008 -->
00:23:55,128
good it could be a good investment let's talk about it right or is
398
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00:23:58,168
he just full of shit and he just wants to cover his ass right
399
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00:24:01,108
you know we'll hide those type of stuff and we'll go from our
400
00:24:01,108 -->
00:24:04,248
experience here's here's here's what we think and
401
00:24:04,248 -->
00:24:09,188
then that way they can make an informed decision i love that i love that you
402
00:24:09,188 -->
00:24:13,128
guys are looking at it from all sides too and and you know not just thinking
403
00:24:13,128 -->
00:24:17,008
in terms of like one project at a time we're just going to mitigate risk there
404
00:24:17,008 -->
00:24:21,028
could be all types of other factors that are are coming into every single decision
405
00:24:21,028 -->
00:24:23,368
that needs to be made throughout the lifetime of the project.
406
00:24:23,728 -->
00:24:25,908
You know, I think when we first started talking, you were mentioning like we
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00:24:29,228
handle contracts and it seems like, okay, I think often in our minds,
408
00:24:29,268 -->
00:24:32,028
we think of contracts as sort of a one and done sort of thing, right?
409
00:24:32,068 -->
00:24:36,448
Like, okay, we got the contract, we negotiated, we marked it up with our red pen, right?
410
00:24:36,768 -->
00:24:40,168
We sent it back and that's great. But you guys are actually sort of hand holding
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00:24:40,168 -->
00:24:42,568
every step along the way throughout the whole project.
412
00:24:43,369 -->
00:24:46,549
Yeah. And there's, there's, there's never just one contract, right?
413
00:24:46,629 -->
00:24:49,609
Because if you, if you've got one contract and you've got one job,
414
00:24:49,609 -->
00:24:52,909
right, you're not a great construction business, right?
415
00:24:53,209 -->
00:24:57,869
So, but you, you're always bidding for work or you're always creating relationships to get more work.
416
00:24:57,949 -->
00:25:01,669
And then you should be always, if you're as part of the bidding process,
417
00:25:01,949 -->
00:25:06,049
you're, you're still getting contracts that you need to sign up for as part of the bid, right?
418
00:25:06,069 -->
00:25:09,129
So you're going to submit your price and they also give you the contract at that stage.
419
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00:25:11,989
So that stage, that's when you need to negotiate your
420
00:25:11,989 -->
00:25:15,129
contract and you might win all of those yeah which
421
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00:25:17,849
is the expense if you go to a lawyer and you're doing that for every
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00:25:17,849 -->
00:25:20,569
single one every so let's just say you're making you're doing
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00:25:20,569 -->
00:25:23,929
four bids two or three or four bids a month that's
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00:25:27,029
three or four contracts a month right which could cost you
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00:25:27,029 -->
00:25:29,769
three thousand dollars per contract which costs
426
00:25:29,769 -->
00:25:32,869
you nine nine thousand dollars and just reviewing contracts every single
427
00:25:32,869 -->
00:25:35,829
month yeah because that's what you and or you
428
00:25:35,829 -->
00:25:38,929
can choose not to negotiate your contracts and that's
429
00:25:38,929 -->
00:25:43,109
and then you win that project and then you go oh actually now i've won a project
430
00:25:43,109 -->
00:25:48,029
now i want to negotiate and they're like well you agreed not to right so that's
431
00:25:48,029 -->
00:25:52,689
that's the kind of area that we help in yeah what do you think is like the number
432
00:25:52,689 -->
00:25:56,909
one reason that folks really get a lot of value out of using your services.
433
00:25:57,649 -->
00:26:02,209
More cash flow more margin yeah yeah it's like you started at the very beginning
434
00:26:02,209 -->
00:26:07,249
it's that five to fifteen percent and really like you said in our world and
435
00:26:07,249 -->
00:26:09,169
on the accounting side cash flow is king Right.
436
00:26:09,409 -->
00:26:13,429
Like if you do not have cashflow, we can't even make this thing go.
437
00:26:13,489 -->
00:26:17,269
There's no reason for us to even step in and try to help you understand what your books say.
438
00:26:18,409 -->
00:26:22,229
You won't pay us. We won't pay you. Cashflow is king. So I love that you guys
439
00:26:22,229 -->
00:26:25,369
are really helping to sort of guard subcontractors cashflow.
440
00:26:25,509 -->
00:26:29,489
I think you and I have a similar passion in that regard. Right.
441
00:26:29,549 -->
00:26:33,329
About this whole idea that everything, as you said earlier, it's all rolling downhill.
442
00:26:34,129 -->
00:26:38,329
That's exactly how life works. And the other idea, too, like,
443
00:26:38,469 -->
00:26:41,129
you can't not pay payroll.
444
00:26:41,974 -->
00:26:47,514
There are laws against that. And most of your material suppliers have a 30 day
445
00:26:47,514 -->
00:26:50,154
terms or sometimes you have to pay, you know, a point of sale.
446
00:26:50,214 -->
00:26:54,574
So there's just no way the subcontractor is just getting squeezed in the middle.
447
00:26:54,654 -->
00:26:56,874
And so I think this is such an important service.
448
00:26:57,434 -->
00:27:01,434
Well, then if you think about it as well, and this is why this is a real bee
449
00:27:01,434 -->
00:27:04,114
in my body. Paid when paid is so unfair.
450
00:27:04,454 -->
00:27:09,814
Yeah, it is. It is crazy unfair because it's the same thing as not paying your employees.
451
00:27:09,814 -->
00:27:12,654
It's it's like saying to your employees i'll pay
452
00:27:12,654 -->
00:27:15,454
you when i get paid there's no difference right it's like treating a
453
00:27:15,454 -->
00:27:18,154
company as as as some sort of
454
00:27:18,154 -->
00:27:21,194
lower class citizen that is is is
455
00:27:21,194 -->
00:27:24,414
you know we don't have to pay because we haven't got paid and contractually
456
00:27:24,414 -->
00:27:26,994
i also think is bullshit because i'm in
457
00:27:26,994 -->
00:27:30,054
a contract i'm not in a contract with with the
458
00:27:30,054 -->
00:27:33,534
client i'm in a contract with you and we
459
00:27:33,534 -->
00:27:36,274
have a contract where you said you would pay me if i do work
460
00:27:36,274 -->
00:27:39,214
i don't care about your client right that's your problem
461
00:27:39,214 -->
00:27:42,034
your relationship and your cash flow i'm not in your
462
00:27:42,034 -->
00:27:45,214
financial weeds so your financial health
463
00:27:45,214 -->
00:27:47,974
is not my problem we have a deal for where you should
464
00:27:47,974 -->
00:27:53,534
pay me and so in in most countries in the world tanya that's illegal yeah yeah
465
00:27:53,534 -->
00:27:58,274
not here like i said pay when pays very often here and then as i said in the
466
00:27:58,274 -->
00:28:01,454
contracts class i was sitting in just last week they were talking about pay
467
00:28:01,454 -->
00:28:03,654
if paid which is a whole other level
468
00:28:03,654 -->
00:28:07,354
of risk that that I don't think any subcontractor should ever take on.
469
00:28:07,494 -->
00:28:12,294
You know, there's a whole pay when paid, we can talk about if that's a timing
470
00:28:12,294 -->
00:28:14,294
issue and whether it should be illegal, and I agree with you.
471
00:28:14,974 -->
00:28:19,714
Pay if paid, I think you should never ever accept a pay if paid clause, ever.
472
00:28:20,513 -->
00:28:24,553
You have no control. Yeah, yeah. You've completely given up all control and
473
00:28:24,553 -->
00:28:29,173
just said, basically, well, if the whole project, if the entire project goes
474
00:28:29,173 -->
00:28:32,033
downhill, I am taking on all that risk as the sub.
475
00:28:32,233 -->
00:28:35,093
The one who's actually physically doing the work.
476
00:28:35,733 -->
00:28:41,633
Exactly, exactly. And then the mistake mightn't be your fault. Right?
477
00:28:42,053 -->
00:28:47,733
So the same game happens that I'm talking about. The same game happens at GC
478
00:28:47,733 -->
00:28:49,833
and client level or GC and owner level.
479
00:28:50,513 -->
00:28:56,953
So if they didn't get their change order in, right, so that shit flows uphill, right?
480
00:28:57,073 -->
00:29:01,713
So if they've asked you to do additional work, you got your change order in,
481
00:29:01,773 -->
00:29:03,173
like that's approved, right?
482
00:29:03,273 -->
00:29:07,333
And then they are too late sending in their change order. And then that doesn't get approved.
483
00:29:07,753 -->
00:29:13,333
Then the pay if pay thing kicks in where like, well, we didn't get paid for it, right?
484
00:29:13,393 -->
00:29:18,533
Well, we were actually really slow on doing it and we prepared bad documents.
485
00:29:18,533 -->
00:29:20,593
And so we're not going to pay you.
486
00:29:20,973 -->
00:29:25,373
Yeah, no. And even, you know, here in Arizona, we had a big fight several years
487
00:29:25,373 -->
00:29:30,713
ago about this whole idea of transferring risk and what should be legal and should not be legal.
488
00:29:30,793 -->
00:29:35,253
So we do have some good laws on the books here in the state of Arizona around
489
00:29:35,253 -->
00:29:37,153
some of this and the transfer of risk.
490
00:29:37,233 -->
00:29:42,253
But, you know, not just like it's all flowing uphill, but what if,
491
00:29:42,293 -->
00:29:48,153
you know, another subcontractor on the job has caused certain delays and different things are going on?
492
00:29:48,153 -->
00:29:52,333
Like none of that should flow back down to you if you've done your work if you've
493
00:29:52,333 -->
00:29:55,193
performed the work you should be able to be paid for the work that you've done
494
00:29:55,193 -->
00:29:59,773
exactly exactly and if you think about it all of this stuff happens all the
495
00:29:59,773 -->
00:30:02,613
time in construction people don't get paid for stuff.
496
00:30:03,753 -->
00:30:07,293
People don't get paid but people dispute okay well i asked you to do this thing
497
00:30:07,293 -->
00:30:11,653
and then that's exactly how i did it and then whatever or the the amount that
498
00:30:11,653 -->
00:30:15,713
you're asking to be paid might be wrong or incorrect so this stuff happens all
499
00:30:15,713 -->
00:30:19,713
the time so taking on the risk of other people people doing the right thing and doing it properly,
500
00:30:19,953 -->
00:30:23,193
but we know that they don't, is a valid idea.
501
00:30:23,925 -->
00:30:29,065
No, 100% agreed. I just want to know how people can learn more about Quantum.
502
00:30:29,145 -->
00:30:32,545
Like, how can they find out more and learn more about your services and get hooked up with you?
503
00:30:33,045 -->
00:30:37,765
So just go to quantumcontracts.com. And there's a video on there.
504
00:30:37,805 -->
00:30:43,885
And the video on there shows you how to grab back that 5% to 15%.
505
00:30:43,885 -->
00:30:46,685
So check out that video. Hopefully, it's of value.
506
00:30:47,365 -->
00:30:50,065
I love it. Thank you so much for talking with us today, Kian.
507
00:30:50,085 -->
00:30:52,245
It's been a really great conversation. And like I said, I think you and I are
508
00:30:52,245 -->
00:30:56,745
very much passionate about the same thing and about really helping these subcontractors
509
00:30:56,745 -->
00:30:59,285
learn how to play the game and elevate what they do.
510
00:30:59,465 -->
00:31:03,645
So I'm excited to see what comes of it and looking forward to talking with you more.
511
00:31:04,105 -->
00:31:06,305
You too, Talia. Thanks, Kian.
512
00:31:11,585 -->
00:31:15,685
Thank you for tuning in to Construction Junction. To find out more about the
513
00:31:15,685 -->
00:31:20,825
junction between accounting and construction, please email hello at theprofitconstructors.com.
