Ep. 63 - Your Percent Complete Is Wrong: What Prefab Did to the Trades

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Are we setting switch gear or are we submitting, submitting RFIs and switch gear?
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No, the work is getting the switch gear in place. You might have 70% work in
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progress done and you just, you can never see that if you're just doing this
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site walk and saying, is it there or is it not?
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If the FDA approves a 1% improvement in process change or efficacy of a drug
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or a, we get something to prove at the last minute.
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If I'm 98% done with this building and I get that approval, I'm going to come
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back and change the whole thing. Yeah.
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I would challenge a comment that BIM is yesterday and now it's AI or something like that.
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I think we're just starting to get to this fabrication level BIM and we're not
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smittling and RFIing and specking, we're building and building is actually putting
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material in place, doing the work.
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And the further you get removed from the work, the less impact you have on what
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actually needs the art of this whole industry.
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But Jake, I'm excited to have this conversation with you. You know,
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I think for a couple of reasons. One, I think in terms of technology,
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we focus a lot of that conversation on general contractors, just like naturally.
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And yet there's a real need in another sector that is maybe even more squeezed
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than the GC land in terms of the labor crisis and in terms of the expertise gap.
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And and i think maybe so much kind of counter you've invested in that side of
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the the industry for the last 20 25 plus years of your career so.
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I think to start it would be good to kind of understand like from where you sit,
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what's actually been squeezing the trades the hardest over the last few years
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and and maybe kind of what has that pressure forced them to change about how they built
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yeah that the mep space the subcontractor space specifically mep has kind of
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been my passion for my pretty much my old career.
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And I think I got most exposed to that just as an early young engineer working on the job site.
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And like, if you really all like the big issues that rose up at the paperwork
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level, kind of the GC level, they all had to get resolved mostly down at the work interface.
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And I think, I think we've increasingly lost touch with the work interface,
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which is at the end of the day, that's what we're doing. We're building.
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We're not smittling and RFIing and, you know, specking we're building and building
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is actually putting material in place, you know, doing the work.
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And the further you get removed from the work, the less impact you have on what
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actually needs the art of this whole industry.
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So I've spent a lot of time thinking about construction productivity.
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I've done, you know, a lot of different approach. I've been in this industry
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from a lot of different angles, but a lot of the common thread has been very
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close to the work interface, whether that's in a fab shop, whether it's on a,
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on site, installing things, faster ways to,
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to put systems in, whether that be hanging systems, seismic systems,
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piping, plumbing systems.
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The complexity of what we're building has certainly increased over the last few decades.
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The schedules have certainly increased over the last few decades.
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So if you think about the life, to your question, the life of an M&T contractor.
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All of that has to get digested, whether that's, you know, think about how your
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controls interface with your mechanical systems now.
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You know, we don't have just, you know, a vent with a louver on it anymore.
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We actually have digital controls in running that whole HVAC system,
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the whole move to VAV boxes.
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I mean, there's just a lot of change on the technicality of what needs to get installed.
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And that's all pushed on the subcontractors, right? I mean, at the end of the
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day, they're the folks that have to get this stuff procured,
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onsite, in place, connected at the right time.
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So the complexity of what we're building is just it's significantly increased.
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And the people doing that are the subcontractors.
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Contractors. So that pressure, I think maybe isn't appreciated.
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And you see these like construction productivity charts, like the McKinsey graph and everything.
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Well, if we really look at how complex a system is today versus the space and
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the kind of non-technicality of those systems 30, 40 years ago,
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we've compressed our spaces.
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So we're getting more like systems into a smaller space and they're more technical
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and that that is a lot of pressure on the folks doing the work whether that's
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electrical systems whether it's you know piping plumbing systems but we've.
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A lot of this are digitally controlled. There's a lot of increasing.
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You know, the brain of the building, the Siemens, and some of these control systems.
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All that has to be handled by the MEP contractors. And for the most part,
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we haven't changed our schedules. And in fact, schedules are probably even tighter than they were.
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So, and, you know, a lot of that is technology driven, not just software,
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but just building technology, whether that's new joining methods,
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new, the move towards variable refrigerant flow.
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These are just more technical systems that have to be, think about all the lighting
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requirements or the power requirements, low voltage. I mean,
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all of this has significantly increased the complexity of the buildings.
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And you've got at the end of the day pushing around submittals and specs on
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that stuff isn't really that big of you know the gc's life hasn't changed that
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much it's just the same stack of submittals and specs and and schedule management,
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but you'd go down a layer to the the subcontractors and they've really had to
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change to adopt all this new,
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technology and again by technology i don't just mean software i mean the building technology as well.
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That's such a good point i don't think we as much, I think from a complexity
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standpoint, you know, I've worked on some really large projects and from a GC seat,
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there's just, you think of complexity in terms of the additional layers of maybe
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digital paper that exist,
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but all of that complexity flows downhill and at some point leads to,
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to your point, someone putting that work in place and with expertise.
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And I think you're right, our systems, our processes, is our contract language
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hasn't really accounted for,
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for what that looks like and and with more and more of these projects requiring
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you know prefab and ic modular these trades are also taking on additional risk
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in in the design process right and so.
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I guess maybe just to kind of get me up to speed a little bit like when i think
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of some of these data centers that are that are getting put in place the the
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quantity of change i hear from the practitioners is crazy, right?
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I mean, even the MEP systems, the cooling systems that they're kind of planning
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and implementing or installing are assuming,
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additional kind of like cooling capacity so that they can account for different
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racking systems in the future, right?
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So, all right, spots a break. Lars, real quick, when was the last time you got
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a new set of drawings from an architect and they didn't cloud anything?
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Well, the one that cost me a couple hundred grand was back I think in 2017 so,
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yeah lesson learned there yeah so you know what I like about what Trunk Tools
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is building is they're looking at tools to,
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help kind of remove the mundane from the job site and you know I same as you
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every time there was a bulletin or an addendum I would go back to designers
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and ask them to at least highlight,
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or give me a cover letter on the changes and and that was always like pulling
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like teeth but but Trunk Tools is now automating that so So you get a bulletin
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come in, it automatically highlights the changes. You don't have to do a thing.
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Well, it's also hitting RFIs, right? It's also hitting submittals.
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And when we think about standardizing ops, right, and providing that,
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you know, sort of resource to those field operators, what I see it as, you know.
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It's sort of like this, like mentor within the company that structures,
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standardizes, keeps it moving in the right direction, looks out for risk.
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And just this last week, you know, I had a QC manager just pass along the submittal to an owner.
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Without doing a review because he was too busy and was wrong.
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And, you know, the classic owner statement is, did you even review this? Right.
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So this to me is carte blanche. We absolutely did.
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And think about getting that first pass before your, your, your,
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your, your, your field manager ever even actually has to do the first pass.
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Someone's doing it for him. So to me, it's about speed. It increases accuracy
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and helps standardize ops out in the field. Right.
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Yeah. And this is the kind of AI that we've talked about on the podcast,
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really appreciating, right? Which is looking at ways to elevate the craftsman
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at the heart of project delivery.
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Give me time back so I can be out in the field managing risk, right?
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Yeah, 100%. So, all right. If you're a little curious, check it out,
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trunktools.com forward slash podcast.
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And if you mention construction conversations, you get a discount.
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Discount. Demos are free and you guys get a discount. So let's go.
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How have the trades responded to dealing with that increased kind of burden
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of risk associated with they're having to prefab stuff way ahead of maybe design in some cases?
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Yeah, kind of two things going on there. I'll break them apart. Yeah.
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You mentioned the cooling needs. So the big impact and the complexity change was when basically the.
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Particularly the AI chips crossed the threshold of being able to be air cooled,
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to where they had to be liquid cooled.
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And when you get to about 75 to 100 kilowatts per rack, you kind of get into
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this place where air is just, you just can't get the heat off the chips efficiently with air.
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So you have to do liquid cooled, which is this like the direct plate that sits
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right on the compute chips.
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And then you pump kind of coolant through those. So you're pulling the heat off right at the chip.
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That change happened starting around 2024, 2025, when we kind of crossed that
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threshold on the chip design, both on GPUs and TPUs.
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That forced a complete rethinking of data center design.
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And it also made it really hard to just go retrofit. You know,
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for years, we were just kind of upgrading server racks and existing hot cold aisle data centers.
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So the upgrades were more on the technology side than they were on the system
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side, the MEP system side.
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Now, you know, you can't stick those new latest Blackwell chips from NVIDIA
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into an old kind of CPU or hot cold aisle data center.
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So we've really had to rethink how we design these.
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And these are just starting to come online now. So this big design change happened a few years ago.
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This is why the piping industry is going crazy right now. If you think about
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what we're actually doing, we're building these big cooling loops.
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We are then taking those big cooling systems and getting them all the way down
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to like quarter-inch stainless piping that feeds these plates that sit on top of the chips.
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And then pulling that, you know, extracting the heat, pulling that back off.
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But that's a massive, complex, super intricate piping system that has completely
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changed the way we build data centers.
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And it's driving this huge boom in the piping industry right now,
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which is great if you're in the market. It's a boom that nobody's ever seen.
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But it's also forcing a lot of new technology, new quality control methods,
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new joining methods, new just records on how do we check every one of those welds?
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What are we doing for UTRT, non-destructive examination?
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There's a lot of new change to support this new technology and and that's one
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of those things where like oh you know,
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the MEP contractor oh it's just another data center what's the problem why is
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this so complicated that's a huge technical change we've kind of pushed down
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downstream right so so that's,
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another example of a big technical technical change in the way we build things
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that has to kind to get digested by the industry.
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You mentioned why prefab. Well, same reasons we use prefab for other.
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Some of the same reasons, some of the other reasons that we use prefab in other industries.
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Of course, we believe, and generally it's true, that you can get a higher level
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of quality in a shop environment than you can get in the field.
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So being able to do a weld in a positioner where you're always welding in a
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preferred position, not, you know, underneath the pipe.
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Those are the types of things you can do in a shop that are much harder to do
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in the field. So when you start thinking about quality, that's one of the big
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benefits to moving to fab.
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But perhaps the more significant one for the data centers is if you look at
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where a lot of these are being built, they're in...
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Areas that are not super densely populated. So trying to get that many craft
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workers on site is not easy.
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So as a strategy to build these, you move some of that labor offsite.
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And in a lot of cases, it's even out of the state, out of the region where you
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can leverage empty fab capacity in a whole nother jurisdiction and in order
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to keep these data center construction going.
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And, you know, that's not just data center, by the way, either it's,
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it's pharmaceutical production right now. It's energy project production.
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It's, it's, it's things.
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It's all kind of this big MEP infrastructure we're building out,
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but that labor arbitrage has been a huge advantage where I can.
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Take, you know, what would be maybe millions of man hours of labor in one site
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and then kind of move that out across to different regions where we do have capacity.
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You know, you've got in some of the coast states right now, we're very slow,
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but we can use that labor capacity and that shop capacity to build fab and ship
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it into Reno or Abilene or.
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You know, data center alley in Virginia.
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So a lot of that's happening to arbitrage just the labor gas,
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which is good for the country, right? Because you can balance,
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you can keep a labor pool busy, whether or not you live in the exact right place
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for something to be involved.
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Sponsor break. If you spend any time running a project, you know,
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the answer is almost always sitting in the contract document somewhere.
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Catch is that it's almost never in one document. It's split across the contract,
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the specs, and some flow-down clause three layers deep that nobody connects
00:15:05.275 --> 00:15:07.055
until it's already cost money.
00:15:07.223 --> 00:15:11.125
That's the whole premise behind Document Crunch. That risk doesn't live inside
00:15:11.125 --> 00:15:13.868
any single document. It lives in the gaps between them.
00:15:14.054 --> 00:15:18.576
And most teams never look at all of them together until they're standing in a dispute.
00:15:19.266 --> 00:15:23.835
The average construction dispute in the U.S. now runs about $60 million,
00:15:24.475 --> 00:15:26.883
according to Arcadis. It's a lot of money.
00:15:27.283 --> 00:15:30.267
And the root cause they point to isn't fraud or bad intent.
00:15:30.551 --> 00:15:33.925
It's people not fully understanding what they agreed to. So Document Crunch
00:15:33.925 --> 00:15:35.973
builds a platform around closing that gap.
00:15:36.176 --> 00:15:41.790
Crunch AI reads the documents, surfaces the risks, and it cites the exact page and clause that's big.
00:15:42.138 --> 00:15:45.965
So you're not just taking its word for it. Project Assist lets your team act
00:15:45.965 --> 00:15:49.215
on it, ask questions across the entire project document set,
00:15:49.215 --> 00:15:53.591
hand draft your submitters, notices, and RFIs right from the chat window.
00:15:53.818 --> 00:15:57.805
And the whole thing runs on your own company standards. So the office and the
00:15:57.805 --> 00:16:00.000
field are working off the same playbook.
00:16:00.343 --> 00:16:04.615
For bid through closeout. No disconnects. It's live now across the U.S.
00:16:04.615 --> 00:16:10.245
And Canada. Go to documentcrunch.com forward slash construction conversations and book a demo.
00:16:11.539 --> 00:16:15.414
But then maybe walk me through, obviously, you talked through some of the pros.
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Some of the cons from the trade standpoint is just increased exposure to change, right?
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Yeah, I mean, you bid on one of these jobs with a new design.
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And one of the big challenges we're seeing right now is just schedule capacity and schedule planning.
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Because you're taking on lots of new types of work that very likely you don't
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have experience with because these designs are completely changed.
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So you talk about miles and welded stainless steel pipe.
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You're taking on a lot of risk by taking on that job. Now, you might have welded
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some stainless steel pipe before, but you may not have cut and welded thousands,
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and some of my customers, miles of stainless pipe.
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So it becomes a real budget, estimating, tracking, planning,
00:17:09.446 --> 00:17:14.966
scheduling problem of, and that's a lot of risk when, and a lot of these jobs are schedule driven.
00:17:14.966 --> 00:17:19.726
So, you know, you're kind of committing to delivering work at a certain,
00:17:19.726 --> 00:17:22.788
on a very kind of drumbeat type of schedule.
00:17:23.101 --> 00:17:26.346
It's a, it's a lot of operational challenge.
00:17:26.346 --> 00:17:30.676
And, and, you know, I like to talk about thinking this as a production system.
00:17:30.676 --> 00:17:36.096
You really need to understand the entire system you have under your purview
00:17:36.096 --> 00:17:37.736
as a contractor, subcontractor.
00:17:37.736 --> 00:17:42.406
So everything from BIM to fab to logistics, material handling,
00:17:42.406 --> 00:17:46.506
there's a lot assembly steps that you probably didn't think about before if
00:17:46.506 --> 00:17:48.416
you haven't been doing multi-trade modular.
00:17:48.416 --> 00:17:53.971
So your non-job site work really stretches out.
00:17:54.348 --> 00:18:00.336
And that part is critical. you have to get that right. So being able to do a
00:18:00.336 --> 00:18:02.936
pullback schedule all the way up to when do I need to buy material?
00:18:02.936 --> 00:18:07.096
When do I have the material cut? How do I schedule enough QAQC to make sure
00:18:07.096 --> 00:18:08.029
these things pass through?
00:18:08.575 --> 00:18:12.035
What are my processes if there is an issue, a defect in a weld?
00:18:13.576 --> 00:18:17.056
There's just a lot of kind of process operational work to be done.
00:18:17.056 --> 00:18:20.616
And that isn't no fault of any trade contractor, but,
00:18:21.289 --> 00:18:26.176
there's not a lot of learning and experience with this kind of if you want to
00:18:26.176 --> 00:18:30.417
call it industrialized construction but so it's pretty interesting to watch this right now,
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.806
well and what you just described is a manufacturing process right like i think
00:18:34.806 --> 00:18:39.076
you know i was a lci member for many years and this was kind of the dream right
00:18:39.076 --> 00:18:43.296
it was like hey let's let's create a manufacturing hub out of a out of a job
00:18:43.296 --> 00:18:45.636
site and obviously it seems like,
00:18:46.089 --> 00:18:50.977
we've done that with only a component of of the whole ecosystem of the site
00:18:51.395 --> 00:18:54.806
and that's now okay we've created some friction from that.
00:18:54.806 --> 00:18:57.975
So maybe, you know, continuing on the story. So,
00:18:58.702 --> 00:19:03.946
trades taking on additional kind of change risk what was the friction they were
00:19:03.946 --> 00:19:08.949
experiencing as they were going through this process as,
00:19:09.506 --> 00:19:14.236
design teams owners made changes along the way and now that this is past tense
00:19:14.236 --> 00:19:16.276
this is happening live so yeah,
00:19:16.896 --> 00:19:20.574
yeah yeah you know what am i early on in my career he.
00:19:22.087 --> 00:19:27.666
Did a lot of work and just kind of construction innovation mapping out he kind
00:19:27.666 --> 00:19:32.286
of stakeholders and you know i went through the value stream mapping jake yes
00:19:32.286 --> 00:19:33.716
exactly value stream mapping,
00:19:34.620 --> 00:19:39.136
i did this great kind of design session it was like a three month kind of like
00:19:39.136 --> 00:19:42.856
problem finding where you mapped out the entire workflow i mean all the way
00:19:42.856 --> 00:19:49.052
up into to urban kind of planning building codes city officials,
00:19:49.636 --> 00:19:52.526
design architect engineer we kind of mapped out the whole thing and tried to
00:19:52.526 --> 00:19:54.548
try to find problems through the system and,
00:19:55.181 --> 00:19:57.256
you know one of the The consistent themes is,
00:19:57.776 --> 00:20:00.043
as you start getting downstream in the workflow is, oh,
00:20:00.669 --> 00:20:03.496
if we just got the, if the designs are right, if the drawings are better,
00:20:03.496 --> 00:20:06.306
if the engineers did a better job, we wouldn't have any of these problems.
00:20:06.306 --> 00:20:08.986
You know, we could just build, we could just get the drawings and we build them.
00:20:08.986 --> 00:20:10.799
It's all, it's an engineering problem, right?
00:20:11.304 --> 00:20:15.136
And then, but by doing this dual stakeholder mapping, then you,
00:20:15.136 --> 00:20:17.649
well, then you go back up to the engineers. You're like engineers. Well, yeah.
00:20:18.672 --> 00:20:21.872
Because you would hear that from contractors, right? Oh, if the engineers said
00:20:21.872 --> 00:20:24.352
better job, this is the problem.
00:20:24.352 --> 00:20:26.972
So, but when you really map this out, then you go to the engineers and you're
00:20:26.972 --> 00:20:29.002
like, Hey, what's going on here?
00:20:29.002 --> 00:20:32.482
And they're like, well, listen, the owners paid us to do, you know,
00:20:32.482 --> 00:20:35.864
X percent design, knowing that there's going to be changes. And,
00:20:36.182 --> 00:20:38.212
you know, this is, this is all we're contractually delivered.
00:20:38.212 --> 00:20:40.972
We're doing exactly what we were asked to do. So it's not our fault.
00:20:40.972 --> 00:20:42.275
You're like, okay, well, what's going on here?
00:20:42.687 --> 00:20:45.892
Then you go back up to the owners and you say, Hey, listen, downstream,
00:20:45.892 --> 00:20:51.142
your project is a big disaster because, you know, there's all this on semi-complete
00:20:51.142 --> 00:20:52.592
design and variability and all this.
00:20:52.592 --> 00:20:56.422
And the, probably the biggest kind of aha moment I had, I was,
00:20:56.422 --> 00:21:01.522
I was working for a big mechanical contractor on pharmaceutical production.
00:21:01.522 --> 00:21:05.772
And I sat with the construction team for one of these big pharmas and I'm kind
00:21:05.772 --> 00:21:06.742
of talking to the same thing.
00:21:06.742 --> 00:21:10.322
I'm like, man, this job's a mess because, you know, we start,
00:21:10.322 --> 00:21:13.172
we start fabbing all this stuff and then you guys change and,
00:21:13.172 --> 00:21:15.602
you know, what's going on and the, and the engineers They're like,
00:21:15.602 --> 00:21:18.419
hey, it's whatever the pharma wants they get.
00:21:19.002 --> 00:21:23.072
So I sat with him and I'm like, this is crazy. How do we fix this?
00:21:23.072 --> 00:21:25.133
He's like, Jake, I don't think you get it.
00:21:25.745 --> 00:21:28.352
Who do you think is paying the bills for this? This is a big pharma production
00:21:28.352 --> 00:21:31.352
facility, right? Who do you think is paying the bills? We are.
00:21:32.238 --> 00:21:36.441
If the FDA approves a 1% improvement.
00:21:38.246 --> 00:21:44.972
In process change or efficacy of a drug or we get something approve at the last
00:21:44.972 --> 00:21:49.902
minute if i'm 98 done with this building and i get that approval i'm going to
00:21:49.902 --> 00:21:51.248
come back and change the whole thing,
00:21:52.264 --> 00:21:56.743
That's you as a subcontractor, you need, you want to be my best friend.
00:21:56.743 --> 00:22:01.593
You welcome those changes and you'd be the most adaptive and receptive.
00:22:01.947 --> 00:22:05.633
Stop beating on us to have a consistent design and hold everything perfect.
00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:09.433
That's not how this works. I'm the owner. I pay the bills. We are built.
00:22:09.433 --> 00:22:10.695
We're running a business.
00:22:11.363 --> 00:22:16.173
This drug facility is part of our business and it needs to be as good as possible.
00:22:16.173 --> 00:22:18.873
If I get a change approved through the FDA at the last second,
00:22:19.867 --> 00:22:22.967
I'm going to rebuild the whole thing. You guys are going to redesign the whole thing. I'll pay for it.
00:22:23.437 --> 00:22:26.773
We just need to have a good relationship so you guys can adapt to those changes.
00:22:26.773 --> 00:22:30.903
And for me, Steven, that was such like, oh my God, I've been thinking about
00:22:30.903 --> 00:22:33.928
this wrong the whole time. Like that owner's totally right.
00:22:34.558 --> 00:22:39.603
And I think you can bring that story home for anybody who's like built a kitchen
00:22:39.603 --> 00:22:42.434
or something like that, right? You like, you design your kitchen.
00:22:43.218 --> 00:22:47.833
The tile starts going in or the backsplash or whatever. And then you come down,
00:22:47.833 --> 00:22:49.214
Like, oh my God, this looks terrible.
00:22:49.790 --> 00:22:53.373
I don't care if you're 98% done. If you don't want to live with that backsplash,
00:22:53.373 --> 00:22:54.813
you rip it out and you redo it, right?
00:22:54.813 --> 00:22:59.588
And so this idea that drawings are going to be perfect, BIM's going to be perfect,
00:23:00.163 --> 00:23:02.593
you know, we're going to have a locked in design and schedule we're all going
00:23:02.593 --> 00:23:06.493
to stick to is just not true. I mean, owners, it's exactly right.
00:23:06.873 --> 00:23:10.843
Who's paying the bill gets to change their mind. That's part of the deal.
00:23:11.545 --> 00:23:17.473
Man, Jake, that's like a real rethink. And that's really helpful.
00:23:17.473 --> 00:23:20.452
Like, I wish I would have actually had this conversation when I was a PM.
00:23:20.841 --> 00:23:24.653
I mean, it does go back to, it's like the who moved my cheese kind of concept
00:23:24.653 --> 00:23:28.573
of change, which is it's change is constant and embrace it. And how do you build
00:23:28.573 --> 00:23:33.037
the right systems around it to adapt and manage it effectively?
00:23:33.338 --> 00:23:35.095
So that's really helpful.
00:23:35.426 --> 00:23:39.413
When you think about change management and getting good at that and building
00:23:39.413 --> 00:23:45.892
tech to allow trades to be that, which is this kind of force to manage change,
00:23:46.542 --> 00:23:50.442
how much of that has led to Stratus or is that kind of the thesis?
00:23:51.171 --> 00:23:58.293
It's certainly a big component. So one of the big things that we bring to a
00:23:58.293 --> 00:24:02.637
company that isn't using Stratus is just visibility into where things are at.
00:24:03.025 --> 00:24:08.063
And that pushes all the way back up into the model layer so you can see statuses
00:24:08.063 --> 00:24:09.161
and then all the way down.
00:24:09.701 --> 00:24:14.738
And one of the things we're trying to mitigate here is when you do start a larger
00:24:15.063 --> 00:24:20.853
prefab operation as part of your delivery method, it kind of elongates your risk.
00:24:21.333 --> 00:24:28.047
So you've got more work in progress than is traditionally measured on it.
00:24:28.153 --> 00:24:30.973
So how did we used to measure work in progress? We go walk the job,
00:24:30.973 --> 00:24:34.479
we kind of walk around and look up in the ceiling and see what's installed, right?
00:24:35.181 --> 00:24:40.443
When you think about the total work, let's say that that conduit rack is a hundred
00:24:40.443 --> 00:24:42.883
hours of, you know, estimated work.
00:24:43.499 --> 00:24:46.053
When you do a bunch of prefab, you're actually taking, you know,
00:24:46.053 --> 00:24:49.739
maybe 60, 70 of those hours and putting them offsite.
00:24:50.580 --> 00:24:54.446
So if you think about kind of earning value on that rack, you might,
00:24:55.050 --> 00:24:59.363
before that thing even gets to the site, you might have 70% work in progress
00:24:59.363 --> 00:25:02.613
done. And you just, you can never see that if you're just doing this site walk
00:25:02.613 --> 00:25:04.234
and saying, is it there or is it not?
00:25:04.588 --> 00:25:09.203
So even though it's not in the ceiling, you might have 70 hours burned on that
00:25:09.203 --> 00:25:12.430
rack already, getting it fabbed and shipped and delivered and ready to go.
00:25:12.877 --> 00:25:17.306
The work on site might be the last, you know, just pop it up into the hangers and you're done.
00:25:17.914 --> 00:25:21.623
And so that, you know, extend that across all the trades, whether it's piping,
00:25:21.623 --> 00:25:26.833
sheet metal, the time now horizon, you've got that conduit rack all the way
00:25:26.833 --> 00:25:30.509
back three months ago, you might've started working on that in your shop.
00:25:31.748 --> 00:25:37.403
All of that is risk for the subcontractor. And if you're working in a contract
00:25:37.403 --> 00:25:42.403
structure or with the general contractor, that it's only measuring percent complete
00:25:42.403 --> 00:25:44.501
by walking the site and looking at what's up in the air.
00:25:45.189 --> 00:25:50.933
The lack of visibility to how much work is happening in other locations, it's a real challenge.
00:25:51.273 --> 00:25:55.103
And it's a cash flow challenge. It's a change order challenge if things are
00:25:55.103 --> 00:25:58.233
moved. Well, hey, what do you mean we can't do a change order on this floor?
00:25:58.233 --> 00:25:59.139
There's no work in there.
00:25:59.754 --> 00:26:02.673
Well, as a subcontractor, you might have that thing completely fabbed out,
00:26:03.113 --> 00:26:07.883
ready to get installed. So what we try to do with Stratus is give complete visibility
00:26:07.883 --> 00:26:09.947
into that entire journey.
00:26:10.452 --> 00:26:16.583
Every piece of pipe, where is it at in its journey from a design element all
00:26:16.583 --> 00:26:17.986
the way to an installed element?
00:26:19.153 --> 00:26:23.063
Is it cut? Did we procure it? Is it cut? Do we weld it?
00:26:23.063 --> 00:26:27.738
Is that we passed the point of no return on like re re changing the,
00:26:28.110 --> 00:26:30.205
the, the joining method at the type of pipe or something,
00:26:30.780 --> 00:26:35.433
you know, knowing where that entire area or entire project is,
00:26:35.833 --> 00:26:39.903
is very valuable to multiple stakeholders, not just the subcontractor,
00:26:39.903 --> 00:26:43.643
but imagine you're in that owner change meeting and they, you know,
00:26:43.643 --> 00:26:45.483
they tell you, Hey, great news.
00:26:45.483 --> 00:26:47.953
We're gonna, you know, we're gonna cut back our scope on the mechanical room.
00:26:47.953 --> 00:26:51.885
We're gonna pull these like six, six things out. Cause we don't need as much cooling load.
00:26:52.800 --> 00:26:59.021
Being able to say, no problem, owner, no problem, engineer, but here's exactly where we're at on that.
00:26:59.661 --> 00:27:05.601
We've got 700 hours committed to it. All right, here's my log into the software
00:27:05.601 --> 00:27:08.344
and look, log into Stratus. You can see exactly where everything's at.
00:27:08.961 --> 00:27:12.781
No problem. Here's a very fair change order, a very fair, you know,
00:27:12.781 --> 00:27:16.321
ask for that work. And when that's done right, it's kind of magical because
00:27:16.321 --> 00:27:18.961
you cut out all, are they overbilling me? Are they, you know,
00:27:18.961 --> 00:27:20.699
are they change ordering me for work they never did?
00:27:21.145 --> 00:27:24.991
So, you know, we love to see it. There's a lot of our customers who actually
00:27:24.991 --> 00:27:31.091
have GCs, owners, CMs logged into Stratus, limited login, right?
00:27:31.091 --> 00:27:32.668
You can kind of control what they could see.
00:27:32.912 --> 00:27:35.821
But the thing everybody gives access to is just the status reporting.
00:27:35.821 --> 00:27:42.411
So you can, it kind of removes that distrust when we are going through change
00:27:42.411 --> 00:27:45.501
management or we are wondering, are we on schedule?
00:27:45.501 --> 00:27:49.761
And, you know, the traditional method to be like, yeah, walking the job site
00:27:49.761 --> 00:27:52.741
and just looking around to get a few percent complete. They just don't work
00:27:52.741 --> 00:27:54.205
when we have a big fab operation.
00:27:55.035 --> 00:27:59.651
Well, and if I think back to my own past, I think much of the friction in those
00:27:59.651 --> 00:28:02.088
change conversations really comes from,
00:28:02.558 --> 00:28:05.591
you know, there were some owner's reps and there were some owners that were
00:28:05.591 --> 00:28:09.553
unreasonable, but most of the time it's frustration with the lack of information
00:28:09.739 --> 00:28:14.851
available or the time to get information around the impacts of a change, right?
00:28:14.851 --> 00:28:18.651
Oh you want that okay give me two weeks and maybe we'll collect pricing and
00:28:18.651 --> 00:28:24.421
so being able to have dynamic insight into the impact of potential change because
00:28:24.421 --> 00:28:27.683
that's often what it starts is like okay let's let's talk about what's,
00:28:28.205 --> 00:28:32.907
what's it going to tail to make this change and and if you don't have that information
00:28:33.285 --> 00:28:36.245
then you know the speed of intel really can hit you,
00:28:37.034 --> 00:28:42.027
it's not a change yeah it's i mean it's also just regular work percent complete,
00:28:42.485 --> 00:28:44.186
you know so if you think about progress billing.
00:28:45.846 --> 00:28:48.913
And again, as you've got this long prefab operation, it's just knowing what
00:28:48.913 --> 00:28:52.973
percent complete you are in a very quantitative, very transparent way.
00:28:52.973 --> 00:28:56.973
So people aren't questioning overbilling strategies. You know,
00:28:56.973 --> 00:29:00.550
you can just say, hey, look, here's exactly. Did we agree that at 20 percent,
00:29:01.080 --> 00:29:05.532
that when all the pipes cut, we agree that's a 20 percent complete? Yes. Good. OK, great.
00:29:05.881 --> 00:29:08.609
Now I'll give you a report every week that shows you exactly.
00:29:08.783 --> 00:29:12.993
So you kind of go through the stages of your fab process and then you can create
00:29:12.993 --> 00:29:17.553
a very objective report that gives you kind of percent complete for every piece
00:29:17.553 --> 00:29:19.319
of material that goes into the job so,
00:29:19.997 --> 00:29:25.303
is this changing contract terms gc to trade like gc to owner like,
00:29:26.003 --> 00:29:30.303
is this making its way through the ecosystem of kind of how we talk about commercial
00:29:30.303 --> 00:29:35.473
terms yeah absolutely if you look at the the really big fabricators that's a
00:29:35.543 --> 00:29:40.878
it's a completely different thought process and how to get paid for that work and not everybody,
00:29:41.844 --> 00:29:45.423
realizes that right away but i'll tell you when you got to go buy a whole bunch
00:29:45.423 --> 00:29:49.583
of material for prefab and you can't install it for three four or five months,
00:29:50.191 --> 00:29:53.903
that's the type of stuff you got to have buttoned up and and because otherwise
00:29:53.903 --> 00:30:00.919
you've got a huge cash outlay that it you know it's it extends your receivables significantly so yeah.
00:30:02.242 --> 00:30:07.285
Does Stratus stand for, like Greek, for productivity or something?
00:30:07.285 --> 00:30:10.655
Or was there a name tie-in between Stratus and what it does?
00:30:10.655 --> 00:30:12.935
That sounds pretty good. Yeah, we can go with that. Right.
00:30:18.755 --> 00:30:22.426
All right. You heard it here first, the true definition of Stratus.
00:30:22.821 --> 00:30:24.708
Yeah, exactly. Lock it in.
00:30:25.555 --> 00:30:28.842
Marketing department. Update. update.
00:30:30.478 --> 00:30:34.295
Now, we've talked about Stratus as, you know, if you think about Stratus as
00:30:34.295 --> 00:30:36.355
like a layer around the earth, right?
00:30:36.695 --> 00:30:39.772
Stratus is a layer that sits across that entire workflow.
00:30:41.075 --> 00:30:46.125
It really is kind of the oxygen. In this case, it's kind of the data connectivity
00:30:46.125 --> 00:30:47.875
that makes that workflow work.
00:30:47.875 --> 00:30:52.817
So we think about Stratus as like a layer that sits over that entire,
00:30:53.369 --> 00:30:58.315
delivery workflow all the way from design into field install testing balance
00:30:58.315 --> 00:31:04.015
sign off so that is kind of the analogy for stratus nice um yeah,
00:31:05.375 --> 00:31:11.415
either one pick your poison you know the idea of accurate plan percent,
00:31:11.955 --> 00:31:16.545
is really interesting and you know there's a big focus on you know from all
00:31:16.545 --> 00:31:21.253
the different reality capture systems to get better at progress tracking So,
00:31:22.219 --> 00:31:28.472
does i don't know the platform well enough but from either like a current platform
00:31:28.792 --> 00:31:34.522
feature set standpoint or or roadmap how do you get a really good plan percent complete accuracy.
00:31:35.875 --> 00:31:42.232
Yeah i think everything we do in stratus is broken down by kind of key steps
00:31:42.232 --> 00:31:46.858
we call them statuses but key statuses of of material so if you think about,
00:31:47.323 --> 00:31:49.752
a duct that's going to start off As a flat sheet,
00:31:50.312 --> 00:31:53.862
of metal, we're going to form that into our duct sections.
00:31:53.862 --> 00:31:57.754
We're going to put connectors on them in the shop, ship them to the field.
00:31:58.335 --> 00:32:01.032
And then we have to connect them together in the field, right?
00:32:01.032 --> 00:32:03.777
And there might be some additional fireproofing, insulation, that type of thing.
00:32:04.150 --> 00:32:09.802
Each one of those steps along the way requires labor and ultimately kind of
00:32:09.802 --> 00:32:13.780
burns down your percent complete. So as you've completed each of those statuses,
00:32:14.348 --> 00:32:17.297
and this is where some of the just the pure visual.
00:32:18.184 --> 00:32:21.516
You know, sidewalk stuff is a little difficult to get the percent complete.
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.829
You know, you might hang a bunch of duct in the air and you see it on a camera
00:32:24.829 --> 00:32:26.961
and it looks good. And you say, okay, that's done.
00:32:27.564 --> 00:32:32.679
Where 50% of the work is the joining, you know, insulation, fire,
00:32:32.679 --> 00:32:34.795
if you've got to do seismic.
00:32:35.166 --> 00:32:38.009
So you might see the duct there and think that it's good. You might say,
00:32:38.009 --> 00:32:42.068
hey, we're done on that floor where you've only got some percent of the work done.
00:32:42.573 --> 00:32:47.739
So with Stratus, we really try to put those assignments in place.
00:32:47.739 --> 00:32:50.579
When we finish this, what percent complete are we?
00:32:50.919 --> 00:32:54.589
So just because it's in the air, you might still only be 80% complete with your
00:32:54.589 --> 00:32:58.941
job. You might still have a bunch of labor to go join things together.
00:32:59.231 --> 00:33:02.899
You know, pipe's another great one where you're, you actually have to go weld
00:33:02.899 --> 00:33:05.139
the pipe. That's a lot of labor. So you might see the pipe in the air,
00:33:05.479 --> 00:33:07.412
but if you don't look carefully, it hasn't been welded.
00:33:07.718 --> 00:33:10.569
Conduit's the same thing. You see the conduit. Great. Did we pull wire?
00:33:10.569 --> 00:33:14.969
Because that's, you know, a lot of times that's way more labor intensive than
00:33:14.969 --> 00:33:18.649
seeing the conduit. So that's where we actually break these down into discrete
00:33:18.649 --> 00:33:21.130
statuses. We assign percent complete by status.
00:33:21.751 --> 00:33:25.080
The way we handle this is we give the field form an easy way,
00:33:25.330 --> 00:33:27.843
kind of an online offline model view to tap.
00:33:28.522 --> 00:33:32.862
Components scan qr codes there's different ways you can kind of select what
00:33:32.862 --> 00:33:39.505
you're looking at pick areas pick systems pick rooms and then assign the status of where that's at so,
00:33:40.125 --> 00:33:44.302
do i have all the wire pulled boom that's a status update what does that mean
00:33:44.302 --> 00:33:48.632
percent complete you assign that based on your your estimate breakdown so i
00:33:48.632 --> 00:33:51.122
do think there's a lot of value in.
00:33:52.067 --> 00:33:56.422
Some of the automated kind of ai site walk percent complete estimates it's certainly
00:33:56.422 --> 00:33:59.617
better than nothing it's certainly better than static pictures,
00:34:00.266 --> 00:34:03.773
but i think when you really get down to like a billing accuracy,
00:34:04.366 --> 00:34:08.512
you need to understand it's more than just is it there or is it not it's much
00:34:08.512 --> 00:34:11.882
more gets down to the discrete steps that have to be,
00:34:12.362 --> 00:34:16.742
completed for each well and you've kind of given it an intricate language which
00:34:16.742 --> 00:34:19.782
is important and i think that's one of the things that's lacking in the progress
00:34:19.782 --> 00:34:24.444
tracking category is you know we can talk about a frame wall,
00:34:24.981 --> 00:34:28.962
we can talk about draw there's just larger components that we can speak to,
00:34:28.962 --> 00:34:33.851
but we can't always speak about the intricacies or handoffs between them very well or accurately.
00:34:34.683 --> 00:34:37.442
So, you know, going back to maybe earlier in the conversation,
00:34:37.442 --> 00:34:42.502
we talked about just the increased complexity, the increased size of project delivery.
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.732
And we have this tendency in
00:34:44.732 --> 00:34:50.266
our industry to give each kind of potential silver bullet like its moment.
00:34:50.655 --> 00:34:55.472
And then, you know, we're now talking about, you know, AI and all these different
00:34:55.472 --> 00:35:02.124
elements but bim had its moment right in theory and and it's kind of over by by some estimation,
00:35:02.935 --> 00:35:06.452
even though it's it's maybe serving as a as a foundational layer for some of
00:35:06.452 --> 00:35:11.915
this how are the trades from what you're seeing dealing with increased complexity,
00:35:12.548 --> 00:35:14.888
without the model being the foundation.
00:35:17.141 --> 00:35:20.851
I think at the trade level, I don't think BIM is over. In a lot of ways,
00:35:20.851 --> 00:35:22.471
I think we're just getting started.
00:35:22.971 --> 00:35:28.031
If you think about BIM in a couple different phases or purposes in construction,
00:35:28.431 --> 00:35:30.829
one purpose could be design intent,
00:35:31.456 --> 00:35:36.021
rendering, communicating to like an architectural communication tool.
00:35:36.021 --> 00:35:42.184
Hey, do we want it to look this way? Is this the lighting and just basic architectural design?
00:35:43.131 --> 00:35:48.101
The second piece could be engineering intent so and this is where we start getting
00:35:48.101 --> 00:35:50.373
into systems like do we want.
00:35:51.411 --> 00:35:55.560
Do these pumps connect to these chillers or this that's the way our electrical distribution works,
00:35:56.211 --> 00:35:59.721
and you know these are phases we've gone through and and i think we're pretty
00:35:59.721 --> 00:36:05.671
well baked on that the third phase and by the way that would include coordination
00:36:05.671 --> 00:36:09.568
as well did we kind of get get things in the right places,
00:36:10.251 --> 00:36:14.701
but it doesn't get down to fabrication level bin which is where we're in a lot
00:36:14.701 --> 00:36:20.962
of areas we're still just scratching the surface here but this is actually putting
00:36:21.189 --> 00:36:24.213
content in the model that's fabrication ready.
00:36:25.037 --> 00:36:29.331
And that this is a big phase that i think not everybody has visibility into
00:36:29.331 --> 00:36:34.291
but there's a lot of work from kind of the coordination piece then finally into
00:36:34.651 --> 00:36:37.101
a model that could be fabricated.
00:36:37.786 --> 00:36:42.131
What that means is that all joining methods are defined, all tolerances are
00:36:42.131 --> 00:36:48.561
defined, every system is defined, not only clash-free and according to spec,
00:36:48.561 --> 00:36:52.554
but also in accordance with the way I'm going to fabricate this in the shop.
00:36:53.080 --> 00:36:57.678
So where am I going to put my brakes in these systems? What types of tools are in my shop?
00:36:58.073 --> 00:37:04.766
Do I have automated lasers that require certain types of joining methods or materials?
00:37:05.132 --> 00:37:07.007
Do I have capacity on...
00:37:07.696 --> 00:37:12.621
The fabrication chunks that how big they can be you know am i on 40-foot trailers
00:37:12.621 --> 00:37:17.114
am i in box trucks do i have to get up a buck hoist do i have a crane capacity
00:37:17.473 --> 00:37:19.391
are there overhead bridge capacities
00:37:19.391 --> 00:37:22.042
where i'm transporting like all the logistics come into this that.
00:37:23.168 --> 00:37:27.567
Is the kind of the phase of bim we're just really starting to get better at
00:37:27.794 --> 00:37:32.041
and again for a lot of contractors they're not even there yet so i think this
00:37:32.041 --> 00:37:37.541
concept that we're you know bim is in the past i think we're actually just starting to leverage a,
00:37:38.301 --> 00:37:41.287
BIM as a fabrication model, as a fabrication plan.
00:37:41.866 --> 00:37:46.301
And a lot of that was the reason why this is new is I would say 10 years ago
00:37:46.301 --> 00:37:51.931
before Autodesk updated some of the MEP capacity in Revit, you couldn't even do any of this.
00:37:51.931 --> 00:37:58.901
So being able to use fabrication content in Revit was a big leap, improving,
00:37:59.406 --> 00:38:05.091
flat patterns, improving the way that all the MEP systems, basically electrical,
00:38:05.091 --> 00:38:08.364
mechanical, you know, sheet metal, plumbing, piping are able to be modeled,
00:38:08.811 --> 00:38:11.719
we actually now can start getting fabrication level BIM.
00:38:12.230 --> 00:38:15.941
And this unlocks a whole digital workflow downstream. But yeah,
00:38:16.401 --> 00:38:21.791
I would challenge a comment that, you know, BIM is yesterday and now it's AI or something like that.
00:38:21.791 --> 00:38:25.131
I think we're just starting to get to this fabrication level BIM.
00:38:25.131 --> 00:38:33.914
And that is unlocking a tremendous amount of basically fabrication in MEP contractors right now. Yeah.
00:38:34.668 --> 00:38:39.701
Yeah, I think you framed that really well. And I think model-based planning,
00:38:40.182 --> 00:38:45.099
really is foundational to a lot of kind of all of these different endeavors
00:38:45.099 --> 00:38:49.644
and initiatives. I think there's too much complexity at this point.
00:38:50.809 --> 00:38:53.229
And it solves kind of two big problems, I was just going to say.
00:38:53.229 --> 00:38:57.129
There's like the labor challenge, but then there's the kind of loss of expertise
00:38:57.129 --> 00:38:58.647
and knowledge in the industry, right?
00:38:59.227 --> 00:39:06.495
And the model as a visual representation of the physical is a potential forum
00:39:06.617 --> 00:39:09.489
that can begin to address both of those, right?
00:39:09.489 --> 00:39:15.599
You can bake additional kind of planning upstream and then also at an element
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:20.403
level, you can embed different constructability and means of methods potentially.
00:39:20.676 --> 00:39:22.685
So I think you framed that well.
00:39:23.889 --> 00:39:28.489
How do you think is, like what does the future of Stratus look like Yeah,
00:39:28.489 --> 00:39:32.399
as you, I mean, I like your kind of description of Stratus, which is like this
00:39:32.399 --> 00:39:35.729
like layer of visibility that you add.
00:39:36.129 --> 00:39:40.019
If you take that thesis, there's a lot of different other problems to fix at
00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:41.969
the job level and in the industry level.
00:39:42.769 --> 00:39:47.279
Where else do you think you want to, obviously your MVP is huge.
00:39:47.279 --> 00:39:51.129
You could do this and just continue to grow there forever. Do you take it to other trades?
00:39:52.469 --> 00:39:57.799
Where does your head go? We definitely have a lot of work in front of us on
00:39:57.799 --> 00:40:01.379
the MEP trades before we start getting distracted beyond that.
00:40:01.379 --> 00:40:06.739
And so we're very focused on MEP and we will continue to be number one in the
00:40:06.739 --> 00:40:09.430
way we built the business, the type of people that work here,
00:40:10.063 --> 00:40:11.809
our knowledge of these flows.
00:40:12.872 --> 00:40:16.309
I think we benefit greatly by being hyper-focused on MEP.
00:40:16.309 --> 00:40:20.789
We've got a lot of people that work at our company that worked at MEP contractors.
00:40:20.789 --> 00:40:24.089
So when you're onboarding with Stratus, you're going to have a sheet metal worker
00:40:24.389 --> 00:40:27.409
or a pipe fitter that's going to actually help you with your implementation
00:40:27.409 --> 00:40:32.237
who's done this work before. So that's been key to keeping our focus and our expertise.
00:40:32.931 --> 00:40:38.172
As far as where we're going, I think there's a lot of opportunity across this
00:40:38.172 --> 00:40:46.072
workflow to continue to build out feature sets that further enable digitization.
00:40:46.072 --> 00:40:51.472
And the way I think about our product roadmap is even in our most implemented
00:40:51.892 --> 00:40:54.736
customers, where you see Stratus kind of through the entire workflow,
00:40:55.276 --> 00:40:59.333
if you go walk those shops or sit in the PM's office or walk the field,
00:40:59.728 --> 00:41:06.812
you still see a lot of paper-based input, a lot of kind of manual data entry for adjacent systems.
00:41:06.812 --> 00:41:10.932
And for me, all of those are kind of roadmap items for Stratus.
00:41:10.932 --> 00:41:16.082
So we have a great digital end-to-end workflow, but there's a lot of pieces
00:41:16.082 --> 00:41:19.109
that sit, QAQC records is a great one.
00:41:19.498 --> 00:41:23.692
Some of the scheduling planning, those are all pieces that, you know,
00:41:23.692 --> 00:41:27.622
I think we'll have long roadmaps ahead of us to continue to optimize for the
00:41:27.622 --> 00:41:28.732
way these contractors work.
00:41:28.732 --> 00:41:33.372
So our goal, just like that example I gave you of stakeholder mapping across
00:41:33.372 --> 00:41:36.304
all the industries, it's kind of the same thing at the MEP level.
00:41:36.750 --> 00:41:41.102
Who's all the stakeholders, quality control, shipping and logistics,
00:41:41.102 --> 00:41:44.827
PMs, the accounting, billing.
00:41:45.576 --> 00:41:49.992
Each of those stakeholders can benefit from Stratus, and we have a lot of roadmap
00:41:49.992 --> 00:41:51.799
to go as we keep building this thing out.
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:56.747
You know, one thing that I've seen in this current kind of growth period for
00:41:56.747 --> 00:42:04.097
industry is more, there's a larger spectrum of contractors being engaged on
00:42:04.097 --> 00:42:05.537
really large projects, right?
00:42:05.537 --> 00:42:09.037
You used to have a certain tier of contractor that could really handle some
00:42:09.037 --> 00:42:11.050
of these big, complex projects.
00:42:11.155 --> 00:42:15.280
And now we're just being forced that, you know, more folks are getting involved.
00:42:15.966 --> 00:42:22.909
Are you, for maybe the MEP, M, or E kind of trade that's listening here,
00:42:23.957 --> 00:42:28.917
is part of the Stratus approach some level of light BIM enablement?
00:42:28.917 --> 00:42:34.237
Like, hey, this sounds really interesting. How do I mature into what's being described?
00:42:34.657 --> 00:42:37.960
Or what would you say to that trade? How do they grow into this?
00:42:38.837 --> 00:42:42.057
I actually think it's more fabrication enablement at the moment.
00:42:42.737 --> 00:42:46.427
And we're seeing some awesome networks being built. In fact,
00:42:46.427 --> 00:42:50.487
we've done a lot of work in Stratus to make this easier, but where a group of
00:42:50.487 --> 00:42:55.645
Stratus customers will take on a job and use our platform to manage the fabrication.
00:42:56.028 --> 00:42:59.093
Again, we've got visibility, we've got statusing, we've got work assignment.
00:42:59.717 --> 00:43:04.557
They use Stratus to pull together three or four different companies' fab operations
00:43:04.557 --> 00:43:05.837
and deliver a job together.
00:43:06.257 --> 00:43:09.597
There's a big job going on right now. I think we've got eight Stratus customers
00:43:09.597 --> 00:43:14.447
all just on the piping side doing work on it, all using Stratus to coordinate
00:43:14.447 --> 00:43:16.119
and break that job apart. Yeah.
00:43:16.944 --> 00:43:21.965
Even though you may not have been like the prime owner of the kind of the BIM
00:43:21.965 --> 00:43:29.035
and the original design, you can participate in these jobs as a smaller specialty contractor.
00:43:29.035 --> 00:43:34.765
Maybe you're really good at high purity work or you're really good at carbon,
00:43:34.765 --> 00:43:37.046
you know, just big butt weld carbon steel.
00:43:37.546 --> 00:43:41.935
So you can kind of build a network of fabricators through Stratus and then deliver
00:43:41.935 --> 00:43:44.285
that job together. And that's been really cool to see.
00:43:44.645 --> 00:43:49.425
It's been, this kind of network is growing fast. We've got hundreds of companies
00:43:49.425 --> 00:43:53.181
on Stratus now. So being able to, for these folks to kind of get together,
00:43:53.985 --> 00:43:57.725
win a job and then use Stratus to deliver together is something we've definitely
00:43:57.725 --> 00:43:59.624
leaned into from our product standpoint.
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.445
So what would you say to the GCPM?
00:44:04.232 --> 00:44:08.545
And this is essentially me like i was you know i my background wasn't engineering
00:44:08.545 --> 00:44:15.371
uh it was business econ and and so when i got into construction as a project engineer,
00:44:15.993 --> 00:44:19.635
all of construction was a little bit of a black box and then you kind of learn
00:44:19.635 --> 00:44:24.184
okay corn shell makes a bit more sense and then mep was like oh i don't know that.
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:30.805
And and so i i focused on trying to to you know get better and more knowledgeable
00:44:30.805 --> 00:44:32.744
about the different systems.
00:44:33.174 --> 00:44:37.418
But I do think there's a tendency on the GCPM side to just be like,
00:44:37.720 --> 00:44:39.699
I'm just going to write the contract.
00:44:40.018 --> 00:44:43.065
I'm going to submit their RFIs. I'm going to make sure their submittals are
00:44:43.065 --> 00:44:45.134
approved and then I'm going to try and stay out of their way.
00:44:46.507 --> 00:44:53.008
What would you say to those folks who are thinking about or adhering this with Stratus?
00:44:53.153 --> 00:44:57.774
And how much should a GCPM know about MEP?
00:44:59.045 --> 00:45:03.149
This, to me, goes back to what's the actual work we're doing here.
00:45:04.185 --> 00:45:10.045
Is the work submittals and RFIs or is the work getting material in place at the right schedule?
00:45:10.405 --> 00:45:13.438
And I think unless you're passionate,
00:45:15.505 --> 00:45:19.275
especially as a GC, you're really passionate about that process,
00:45:19.275 --> 00:45:24.345
the work interface, what are we doing here? Are we setting switchgear or are
00:45:24.345 --> 00:45:29.225
we submitting these RFIs and switchgear? No, the work is getting the switchgear in place. Okay.
00:45:29.585 --> 00:45:35.235
If we embrace that, how do we as a GC think about enabling the work?
00:45:35.235 --> 00:45:40.156
And this is where you get into trade stacking, crane schedules.
00:45:41.605 --> 00:45:46.185
Just thinking about pre-constructed, prefabability or pre-construction.
00:45:46.525 --> 00:45:50.725
How are we going to, are we going to have a point in our job where the size
00:45:50.725 --> 00:45:52.117
of prefab needs to change? Okay.
00:45:52.843 --> 00:45:55.299
Let's get ahead of that. Let's talk to our trade partners and say,
00:45:55.299 --> 00:45:58.559
okay, look, it's going to get cold. We got to shut down this.
00:45:58.939 --> 00:46:02.449
I worked on a job where we lost access to a whole project one day and nobody
00:46:02.449 --> 00:46:05.556
knew because they had to seal it up to do some temperature control.
00:46:06.479 --> 00:46:09.239
Nobody knew about that. And it completely changed all of our fab.
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:13.642
And those are the types of things, if you're not really thinking about the work,
00:46:13.932 --> 00:46:15.987
getting close to what needs to happen,
00:46:16.678 --> 00:46:21.559
you're going to make decisions that are paper-based, that are not reality-based.
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:26.339
And, you know, I don't care what job you're in. If you're not insanely curious
00:46:26.339 --> 00:46:31.299
about the actual output, I think you're not going to deliver much value.
00:46:31.819 --> 00:46:36.458
And unfortunately, I think it's really easy today to get into construction management,
00:46:36.985 --> 00:46:43.039
and sit behind a screen and keyboard and actually never be engaged with the work itself.
00:46:43.359 --> 00:46:46.642
And because that's where we're going to get if we want to talk about efficiency
00:46:47.072 --> 00:46:53.039
that's where it's going to happen it's going to happen yeah planning coordinating systems,
00:46:53.859 --> 00:46:57.619
you know what happens actually on the job site interface is where you're going
00:46:57.619 --> 00:47:01.309
to make or break the job it's not going to be in a better submitter yeah that's
00:47:01.309 --> 00:47:05.899
that's absolutely spot on and i think there's you know in,
00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:12.149
with a pm there's so many things to focus on and and i think what i what i noticed
00:47:12.149 --> 00:47:17.839
is the folks who are good at staying on the critical path were much more successful and so,
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:21.809
some of that's inherent some of that's learned i had a really good mentor who
00:47:21.809 --> 00:47:25.409
could have taught me that early and and kind of the risk signals to really focus
00:47:25.409 --> 00:47:31.859
on but i think you're the the idea of start with the end in mind what are we trying to do.
00:47:32.819 --> 00:47:36.699
And you could do that for anything you can do okay i'm managing the mechanical contract?
00:47:36.699 --> 00:47:39.239
What is the milestone that we're working towards right now? Okay,
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:40.875
that's what we're trying to put in place.
00:47:41.165 --> 00:47:45.269
Let's map that backwards, submittals, logistics planning, all those things,
00:47:46.005 --> 00:47:50.957
I think that's a good thing to keep top of mind to try and stay beyond the task
00:47:50.957 --> 00:47:53.987
list because if you just focus on what's on your to-do list or what's in your
00:47:53.987 --> 00:47:59.014
email inbox, you'll never really make an impact that the site really needs you to make.
00:48:00.492 --> 00:48:06.077
And by doing that, there's a lot of mindless decisions that get made that really
00:48:06.077 --> 00:48:07.417
screw up the upstream work.
00:48:08.517 --> 00:48:13.457
A great one is joining methods on different materials, whether that's pipe or conduit or whatever.
00:48:13.777 --> 00:48:18.217
There's efficient joining methods that can really enable prefabrication.
00:48:18.217 --> 00:48:22.517
And, you know, think about like a press fitting versus a braze connection that
00:48:22.517 --> 00:48:26.412
can completely change the way you can deliver that work.
00:48:27.056 --> 00:48:30.087
But on a spec or in a cemental, it just might say one thing and everybody's
00:48:30.087 --> 00:48:34.317
like, oh, well, you know, reject, that's not in the spec without actually getting
00:48:34.317 --> 00:48:36.377
engaged and saying, okay, what are we trying to achieve here?
00:48:36.377 --> 00:48:39.297
Oh, we want to get these big rocks fabricated. We want to be able to slap them
00:48:39.297 --> 00:48:42.537
in place and not have to get up there and braze every connection.
00:48:42.537 --> 00:48:45.317
The only way we can do that is press fittings. Let's go, let's go back and think
00:48:45.317 --> 00:48:50.417
about, should this be a, if that's the work, how do we work that?
00:48:50.417 --> 00:48:54.667
How do we push that back upstream and, and, and see if we can agree as a design
00:48:54.667 --> 00:49:01.249
team to achieve that rather than just like rubber stamping yes or no on, on, on Smithers.
00:49:01.754 --> 00:49:05.437
And I'm speaking from firsthand experience on some super frustrating projects
00:49:05.437 --> 00:49:12.057
where there just wasn't enough care, enough curiosity about how work was going to get done that,
00:49:13.057 --> 00:49:15.407
you know, we really, in the end, kind of screwed over the owners at the end
00:49:15.407 --> 00:49:19.167
of the day, because, you know, we didn't, we didn't work as a construction team
00:49:19.167 --> 00:49:22.015
to think about the work. Yeah.
00:49:23.577 --> 00:49:28.154
So you're the CEO of a tech company. Obviously, you have subject matter expertise.
00:49:28.154 --> 00:49:30.549
You've got some domain expertise.
00:49:31.824 --> 00:49:36.257
How much of that, that kind of ethos of starting with the end in mind,
00:49:36.774 --> 00:49:39.973
like there's a Japanese concept of like getting into the details,
00:49:40.724 --> 00:49:44.368
how much of that is kind of embedded in the culture at Stratus? All of it.
00:49:46.313 --> 00:49:51.384
Now, our number one core value is built with our customers.
00:49:51.684 --> 00:49:57.004
And what that means is being deeply embedded with the work.
00:49:57.726 --> 00:50:02.584
If you think about end users of Stratus, they're welders, they're pipe fitters,
00:50:02.584 --> 00:50:04.802
they're electricians, they're sheet metal workers.
00:50:05.442 --> 00:50:10.164
I always tell our team, it's not, if we were building a dog food app or something,
00:50:10.164 --> 00:50:13.144
you could probably put your head in the mind of a dog food owner and be like,
00:50:13.144 --> 00:50:16.304
okay, this is probably the buttons that should be there and how this little thing should work.
00:50:16.304 --> 00:50:20.905
And you can kind of imagine what that looks like. Like, it's very hard for anybody
00:50:21.096 --> 00:50:27.024
to know what a sheet metal worker's steps are from coming off a coil line to
00:50:27.024 --> 00:50:28.054
banging up square ducks.
00:50:28.054 --> 00:50:33.104
And that's the curiosity, the intensity that we drive through the whole business
00:50:33.104 --> 00:50:37.904
by being on site, sitting with the end users, thinking about the workflows.
00:50:38.224 --> 00:50:42.354
We try to get every single new employee in a fab shop within the first 30 days
00:50:42.354 --> 00:50:47.504
and multiple with like in the first 90 days, really at the work interface where
00:50:47.504 --> 00:50:49.694
the product's being used, where the value's being created.
00:50:49.694 --> 00:50:54.134
And, you know, whether you're an engineer or a finance person or a product manager
00:50:54.134 --> 00:50:58.200
or a salesperson, all the same, it is our core value network.
00:50:58.415 --> 00:51:00.145
It's what makes us successful.
00:51:01.253 --> 00:51:05.678
That's very cool. We're running out of time. I want to be respectful of your time.
00:51:06.718 --> 00:51:10.888
Jake, if you were to think back to your career, what is one thing that you wish
00:51:10.888 --> 00:51:14.424
you could tell young Jake kind of coming up as an up-and-comer?
00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:17.536
How would you go back, and what's the advice you'd pass on?
00:51:18.382 --> 00:51:24.958
Yeah, there's very, very little traditional career path in anything I've done. It's.
00:51:27.018 --> 00:51:28.120
Kind of been a lot of...
00:51:29.279 --> 00:51:34.692
A lot of really, for me, super interesting, various types of,
00:51:34.692 --> 00:51:37.212
I've been in the construction industry the whole time. So there's probably two
00:51:37.212 --> 00:51:39.936
common threads. One is construction, one is technology.
00:51:40.377 --> 00:51:43.518
So all the different roles have included those two concepts.
00:51:43.657 --> 00:51:49.642
But I actually think it is that broadness that helps, you know,
00:51:49.642 --> 00:51:53.372
kind of see around quarters today of having spent time and working in construction
00:51:53.372 --> 00:51:57.927
and other cultures and other corporate, you know, corporate 100s startups.
00:51:58.992 --> 00:52:03.112
It's that broadness of experience, I think, is what has really helped me.
00:52:03.552 --> 00:52:08.939
And yeah, I went and worked for a contractor as well, just to get back close to the work interface.
00:52:09.421 --> 00:52:13.582
So I think advice to young Jake would have been, I probably couldn't even been
00:52:13.582 --> 00:52:16.652
more broad and more, you know, push myself even wider.
00:52:16.652 --> 00:52:21.882
But I actually think it's the breadth that has allowed me to go have depth.
00:52:21.882 --> 00:52:28.092
And, um, and I think that's for, especially today for young kids, the being,
00:52:28.632 --> 00:52:32.342
able to have kind of a systems thinking approach to things, you,
00:52:32.342 --> 00:52:37.302
you get that by exposing yourself to more systems, not just going deep in one system.
00:52:37.302 --> 00:52:41.472
And to me, those, those are skill sets that are hyper valuable right now.
00:52:41.472 --> 00:52:48.112
And, and, you know, 20 years in one company is, to me, I wouldn't even hire
00:52:48.112 --> 00:52:49.740
that person at the moment. Yeah.
00:52:51.212 --> 00:52:55.792
I need to see that you're dynamic and you can learn and relearn.
00:52:55.792 --> 00:52:58.592
And one way you see that is if somebody has been successful in multiple,
00:52:58.592 --> 00:53:01.322
multiple different angles of, you know, of, of, of the business.
00:53:01.322 --> 00:53:04.549
So go wide would be my advice.
00:53:05.973 --> 00:53:09.996
Which is fascinating because it is kind of counter to what the advice has been
00:53:09.996 --> 00:53:14.796
in the last maybe 25, 50 years, right? Which is like, hey, let's all become
00:53:14.796 --> 00:53:16.730
specialists in this globalized economy.
00:53:17.194 --> 00:53:22.816
And I think we're getting at this point where intelligence is somewhat commoditized.
00:53:22.816 --> 00:53:27.416
And so that specialist is not so valuable. It's the person who can kind of think
00:53:27.416 --> 00:53:30.063
beyond where to point the specialist, right?
00:53:30.817 --> 00:53:34.585
And i think if i look back to my career it's just there's a similar,
00:53:35.223 --> 00:53:40.286
commonality where it's you know there was a pm stint i went into construction
00:53:40.286 --> 00:53:45.206
tech and did customer success i went outside the industry was working as a data
00:53:45.206 --> 00:53:47.376
as a service company ran r&d,
00:53:48.267 --> 00:53:54.306
and so yeah i i think to your point it is go get experiences and i think the
00:53:54.306 --> 00:53:58.242
thing that i take away from your story too is there's obviously breadth,
00:53:59.836 --> 00:54:04.336
but at breadth you had real intellectual curiosity which made you go deep in
00:54:04.336 --> 00:54:09.773
each of those experiences and we have real learnings from each experience which I think is also key.
00:54:10.536 --> 00:54:17.556
Yeah you have to be insanely curious in any role I believe I think that's the
00:54:17.556 --> 00:54:19.100
easiest key to success is.
00:54:20.696 --> 00:54:26.521
One ask one more why ask one more question spend a learn more time trying to figure out the why and,
00:54:27.434 --> 00:54:31.184
you know what you find by doing that is there's there's always people willing
00:54:31.475 --> 00:54:35.816
to teach you just have to be express the curiosity and and yeah.
00:54:37.476 --> 00:54:43.356
I i will continue to be curious and i'm sure you will too steven well you nailed
00:54:43.356 --> 00:54:47.452
it well jake thanks for your time man appreciate you coming on appreciate the conversation.