Kyle MacLachlan

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I can't shake those two hunters off the tree. And
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I also can't get up. Sun Bear, you are... Don't
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you stand there.
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Help me already.
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There are other ways to get them down.
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Here, take a Red Bull and think of something.
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Well, and now, any ideas?
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Yeah, I'll go get the beaver.
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Well, there you go.
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Red Bull gives you wings. Hi, my name is Kyle McLaughlin,
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and I feel... fortunate about being Conan O'Brien's friend.
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You know what, Kyle?
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How about that?
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Very few people... get to the highest circle. Oh, wait
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a minute. I'm in the inner circle. I forgot who
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I was for a second. Everybody's in.
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Fall is here. Hear the yell.
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Back to school.
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Ring the bell.
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Brand new shoes.
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Walking loose.
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Climb the fence.
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Books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna
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be friends.
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Yes, I can tell that.
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We are gonna be friends.
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Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. And
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I do. I need a friend. Just one. It's never
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quite happened. I'm joined by Sonam Obsession.
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I'm your friend.
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No.
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And Matt Gourley.
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I'm here today.
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Beggars can't be choosers at this point. I don't know
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why you're just turning us away. We're grade A friends.
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You are good friends. Yeah. I'll admit that. I was
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doing a little bit of an attitude, but it wasn't correct.
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Thank you.
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Um, I cherish, cherish you. Okay.
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That's too far.
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As I said it, I realized that I was making
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myself ill. Um, speaking of friends, we've got a fellow
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in here who's been with me for a long time.
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who occasionally likes to shout into the microphone on this podcast.
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And his name is Aaron Blay. We call him Blay. Blay,
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there's some exciting stuff happening, not just in your world,
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but in Eduardo's world as well. Yeah, that's right. Thanks for, wow,
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it's such a nice tee up. I really appreciate it. Yeah.
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I thought it was pretty good too. It was good.
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But now you've talked about the tee up, so it's
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less good. I'm just not used to feeling, I'm just,
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thank you for the love. I'll put the knife in later. Okay.
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Trust me.
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No, I am happy to announce that Eduardo and I
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have a show called Blaze Arcade.
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We've been doing it for, I think, like a year
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and a half on the radio.
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Is it that long?
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Yeah. On your channel, Conan. Channel 104, Sirius XM.
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This is all the first you've heard of this?
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This is the first Conan's heard of it. Wait, I'm
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on Sirius XM? What is this? What is this? Uh,
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go ahead. No, I'm very well aware of all of this,
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but yes, I know we love to portray me as
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out of touch. Go ahead. What's your name again? Uh, yeah, no. Uh,
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and we've been doing it under the radar.
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Uh, you know, uh, the eye of Soran, your, your Soran,
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and we've been doing, we've been managing to do this
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show for a while without you knowing about it.
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Uh, and now we're telling you about it. Uh, and
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it's called blaze arcade. It's once a week.
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It's live on your channel, channel one Oh four at
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10 AM Pacific.
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1 p.m. Eastern.
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And we take calls. We talk about movies. We talk
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about shows. We talk about video games. We've talked about books.
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Wait a minute. You've talked about books. Yeah. I'm a
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voracious reader. You know that. Yeah. Voracious. Okay. The Minecraft Story.
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It's a great book. By C. Everett Nerdly. Yeah, it's good.
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It's a good book. It's a great book. How do
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you like how the knife went in finally? You thanked
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me so much for the tee up. It's okay.
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I'm more comfortable with a knife in my ribs these days.
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But it's myself, Eduardo, and our producer, Andrew Groose, who
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you love.
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Groose is on the loose. I love that guy. That's right.
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That guy is, he's one. I also, Andrew Groose is
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a very, very physically imposing fellow. He's huge. He's really nice.
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He does great work for us. He is like a
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foot taller than I am.
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Yeah.
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And I've wanted him to write a children's book called
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A Groose on the Loose. That's funny.
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I see him every morning because our daughters go to
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the same school.
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Yeah.
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And there is a Groose on the loose on the campus.
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Yeah.
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I saw him once at the park and I thought, oh, the.
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Groose is on the loose. You know what? Half the
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time Andrew Groose takes a walk in the park, he's
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mistakenly anesthetized and then taken back to the woods. He's
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always waking up in the woods and he's like, oh,
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God damn it. Pulls a dart out of his ass.
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This is not fair to you, Groose.
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Bruce, we love you. You're an incredible guy. But please
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write that children's book, A Gruce on the Loose. And
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then people find out, you know, they're at first kids
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are scared of you, but then they realize that even
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though you're, you know, a big and imposing guy.
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Yeah.
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It turns out that you're really sweet and you're very
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good in your work with Sirius XM.
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Yes.
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That's the end of the children's book.
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That's the end of the children's book?
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Yes, yeah. And they get really intrigued with dynamic audio
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insertion and all that.
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We might need to work that out.
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It'd make millions.
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I think it'd make millions.
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So, and Eduardo, does Blay let you speak or does
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he talk over you? He does, actually. Okay, good, good.
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And that wasn't an accusation.
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You were about to grab the mic from him.
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Well, I just wanted to, We're co-hosts. I know. We
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are co-hosts. Then why is it called Blaze Arcade? Because
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it rhymes. If you're modest. If you're not co-host. Blaze
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Arcade doesn't say Eduardo anywhere. Exactly. Explain that.
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Yeah.
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Eduardo's arcade just doesn't sound as good.
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Oh, yeah.
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Oh!
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Yeah, it'd be too cool for him if it were that.
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What if you called yourself Blay-Wardo? Oh, I love this.
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What about Groose?
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I love this. Yeah, and where's Groose in all this?
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Groose is also, it's the three of us. We're co-hosts.
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How about Blay-Wardo, and there's a Groose on the loose?
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That just rolls off the tongue. I think it's great.
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Bruce's caboose.
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Yeah, hey, Bruce is the caboose. To be fair, this
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show is called Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, not Sona, Matt,
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and Gordon. We're in discussion. We don't wear our bread
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as butter.
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We're in negotiation.
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I hate to bring it up, but we did do,
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I didn't tell you guys this, we did do an
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episode early on that was called Conan O'Brien, Sona Misesian,
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and Matt Gourley Need a Friend plummeted. Plummeted like a stone.
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Yeah.
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We brought your stock down a lot.
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Well, they realize that you and I don't need friends.
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Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, we're good.
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Yeah. There's a reason you guys eat alone. You don't
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need anyone else.
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Well, we're friends with each other.
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Oh, there you go.
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That's great. But no, you can be imposing, Blay, and
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you do have a habit physically of grabbing the mic
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and pulling it towards you. I'm sorry.
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No, no.
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Don't apologize for being who you are, which is a
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terrible person. Thank you.
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I like to think of you guys doing the podcast
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like this.
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We should. We should. We should. That would be fun.
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But it is super fun. Why are you shouting? I'm sorry.
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As we're re-recording this episode. When someone yells at you,
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it's super fun.
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Be afraid. Be very afraid. What am I talking about this?
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There's no point to plugging this show. But Sona was
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on our last episode. She called in. How'd you get her?
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I will say one thing. You, I can guarantee you.
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We even got so obsessed.
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Oh yeah.
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She's sitting right next to you.
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Wow.
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We really read the good one.
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They texted me and they were like, Blake texted me.
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While you were sitting in that chair, he texted you.
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I'm doing a podcast three inches from you.
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And I called in. I was like, yeah, I want
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to talk. I really don't have anything else.
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What happened was many of our episodes, we talk, we
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rank our favorite, episodes or installments of a thing. So
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last episode, we talked about our favorite apocalypse movies, our
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top three apocalypse movies.
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And Eduardo, do you want to explain what yours was?
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I mentioned Wall-E was a top three. That's a good pick.
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That's a really good pick. What about 28 days later,
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28 weeks later, 28 months later, 28 years later?
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But Groose, who we've been referencing here.
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He- Well, Groose is a sign of the apocalypse. He is,
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I'm sorry. He's not even here to defend himself. But
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when there's a Groose on the loose, you know that
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it's time to put those baked beans in the basement.
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Can I say again how much I love this guy?
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I love this guy. It's too late. It's not too late.
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It's too late. Oh, so it's insulting that I said
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he's a monster on the loose? Yes. And then he's
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anesthetized by park rangers? And then a helicopter flies him
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into the deepest parts of Yellowstone and drops him where
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he wakes up later on? And his ankle's tagged? That's
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not an insult. That's me having empathy for his plight.
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His kids are always like, where did daddy go? A
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helicopter took him away.
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Oh, my God.
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I will be arrested and I will pay for my crimes.
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We all know that. Yeah. Anyhow, Bruce was not a
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fan of Wally and started shitting on the movie.
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He never he's never seen it.
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He's never seen Wally.
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He's never seen it.
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And then he had this insane argument that you can't
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take it seriously because it was drawn like it's an
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animated movie.
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And I was so angry.
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And so upset. Can I just, in his defense, that's
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the tranquilizer talking. When you wake up from those things
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and you're face down in some moss, deep, we're talking
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about deep Yellowstone, you're grumpy. And then someone asks you
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about Wally, and you're like, I don't know about this movie.
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It's not his fault.
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Oh, my God.
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We got to get him in here to defend himself.
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I know.
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He really needs to be.
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Here to defend himself. Well, you know, he's got, I
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think he's five hours from here now. It takes a while. What?
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The Sequoias, you mean?
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Yeah. He's got to make his way to a highway
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and then head south. Oh, my God. I am a
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terrible person.
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Yeah.
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Chris, I do love you.
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You are awful.
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And I don't know what's wrong with me.
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Because you basically are like the Celtic version of that.
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You are.
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Yes.
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You're tall.
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No, not at all. Not at all. Oh, okay. Listen, please.
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Incredible sex symbol. All right. Well, let's wrap this up.
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So all episodes of Blaze Arcade are available on Team
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Coco's YouTube channel. A new episode comes out every Friday.
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Right. And you recently, yeah. Great guests like Sona. Matt Gorley.
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Gorley's going to be on to talk best espionage movies. Right.
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Wally.
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Yeah. All guests are booked within 300 feet.
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By the way, Shalemi is on this episode.
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Keeping it in-house, huh? Yes. We'll even get you a limo.
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I'm in the building. Oh, then forget the limo. All right. Well, congrats, guys,
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on the show. Yeah. And I'm proud of you. Proud
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of you, fellas. Very industrious. Sorry, Groose. I'll pay for
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what I did. My guest today is a talented actor,
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you know, from such shows as Twin Peaks and Fallout.
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He now has a new book titled Fictional Selves, a Memoir.
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And he also has a podcast called What Are We
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Even Doing? That's a good title. It is. Because it
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sort of sums up all of us. I'm thrilled he
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stopped by today. I'm a huge fan of this gentleman.
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He's a good man. Tom McLaughlin, welcome. The year is,
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I think, 1989. I am a writer on Saturday Night Live.
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Still very new. I think I started in 88. Twin
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Peaks is the biggest thing that's ever happened on television.
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It's massive. And we get the word that Kyle MacLachlan's
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coming to host the show. And I am so excited.
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And I remember it was very early in the week.
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And Jim Downey, the genius head writer at the show,
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for some reason, I passed him in the hall and
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he goes, hey, Conan, want to get lunch with Cal
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McLaughlin and I? And I felt like a Make-A-Wish kid.
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I was like, what? And he said, yeah, I was
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going to grab lunch. And I went, oh, sure, Jim.
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They did think you were dying. Yeah, yeah.
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No, his voice was still changing.
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And so the next thing I know, I remember this
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really clearly.
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Very young.
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We're in Rock Forest Center. We walked to a Thai
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place that's in Midtown, a few blocks west. It's you, me,
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and Jim Downey. You could not have been nicer, and
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I was in heaven. And it was a great experience
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for me. And then cut to later in the week,
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there's a big Twin Peaks sketch.
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Oh my God, that was great.
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And this was crazy. Again, they needed a guy to,
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I think I walk in and I'm holding Chris Farley,
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who was still new at the show.
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Well, you were Deputy Andy.
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Yeah. I didn't really have a line.
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You didn't have a line, but we all knew.
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We all knew I was Dippy Dandy. Anyway, that is
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a memory that is very important to me. And you
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were the loveliest guy. And this was when, if you
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were ever going to be a dick, it was at
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that moment. You were so nice. And I think about
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that all the time.
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Oh, thank you. That was a memorable time. Every day,
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it's the week long before you're launched on Saturdays. And
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I remember so many things about it. I remember the
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first table read. I remember going through all the scripts,
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reading the material, and all the options that were available.
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And they said, well, this happens because it was September.
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It was the first show of the 15th season. And
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they said, everyone's been working over the summer. So we
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00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:03.799
had like a stack like this. He said, by the
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end of the season, you've got a stack. So I
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was very happy. And that sketch was, I think it
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was just brilliant. I don't know who, was it Jim,
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the head writer, or was it?
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00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.190
Well, Jim was fascinated with the show, so I'm sure
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Jim had a lot to do with it.
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I'm sure he contributed a lot, but it was a
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great sketch, I thought. And you were fantastic, and you
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were holding on to Chris Farley.
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The way I held on to Chris Farley was fantastic.
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Because Chris was like, you know, he's like, hey, man!
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And you were like... I kept pulling him back, yeah. No, no, no,
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00:14:30.610 --> 00:14:32.529
I think a lot of people saw me holding on
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to Chris Farley in the background of a sketch, and
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they thought that guy should host Late Night. Yes, 100%.
332
00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:41.629
But there's so much to talk about because your book,
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00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.240
Fictional Cells... is terrific.
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Thank you.
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00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:47.480
I love your book. Thank you. And first of all,
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I'm going to start by blowing the lid off a
337
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:51.990
great scandal here when people promote books. This is the
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00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:54.190
book that I was given to read, which is your book.
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00:14:55.029 --> 00:14:57.370
It's in this kind of not published yet or not
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00:14:57.409 --> 00:15:01.269
available yet to buy galleys. But this is the book.
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00:15:01.590 --> 00:15:03.889
Publishers think, well, that's not going to look good on
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00:15:03.909 --> 00:15:06.649
a podcast. So what they do is they come up
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00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:09.950
with this. The only thing is, this is a great cover.
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00:15:10.029 --> 00:15:13.899
It looks like a real book. It's fantastic. But unfortunately...
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00:15:13.730 --> 00:15:16.580
This is not your book. This is, what is it?
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00:15:16.970 --> 00:15:21.809
Letters from the Edge. Stories of Curiosity, Bravery, and Discovery
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00:15:21.850 --> 00:15:22.830
by Jeff Wilser.
348
00:15:22.850 --> 00:15:24.009
It's postcards from the Edge.
349
00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:26.200
Oh, postcards. Yeah, I think it's postcards from the Edge.
350
00:15:26.889 --> 00:15:28.000
That's what you were thinking about?
351
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:30.019
But I mean, I'm sorry. Shirley MacLennan?
352
00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:30.470
No, who is it?
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I don't even remember.
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00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.940
This says so much about the publishing business now. This scam.
355
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.200
I know. Letters from the Edge. I know. So I'm
356
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going to make you talk about, that's the book I read.
357
00:15:40.299 --> 00:15:40.379
Yeah.
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00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:43.870
It's about explorations, and we're going to talk about that.
359
00:15:44.009 --> 00:15:46.509
Deep sea diving. I don't know.
360
00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:50.159
It's so funny because, first of all, Blay, you'll admit,
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00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.639
you ran upstairs to tell me that Kyle's here.
362
00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:53.159
Yes.
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00:15:53.330 --> 00:15:55.700
And you said, Kyle's here. And he's very, he looks
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00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:58.340
very dapper. And I was, I got mad and I said,
365
00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:01.409
of course he does. He's Kyle MacLachlan.
366
00:16:02.210 --> 00:16:02.929
He's a vision.
367
00:16:03.110 --> 00:16:06.029
He's like this. Yeah, I know. I mean, what are
368
00:16:06.049 --> 00:16:08.200
you talking about? And of course he's not a hobo
369
00:16:08.269 --> 00:16:09.899
who stumbled in here. He's Kyle MacLachlan.
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00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:10.320
I didn't.
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00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.080
And I, that is your perspective. I was just saying
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00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:14.840
how much I appreciate how great you look.
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00:16:15.100 --> 00:16:17.179
He's putting all this attitude on top of it that
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00:16:17.419 --> 00:16:19.090
I expected you to not look great.
375
00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:20.429
You always look great. Well, please.
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00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:21.289
Bless your heart.
377
00:16:21.330 --> 00:16:22.830
Never defend yourself. It takes time.
378
00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:25.809
I'm coming to the Conan show. I mean, this is
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00:16:25.850 --> 00:16:28.809
a big deal. This is kicking off the tour, as
380
00:16:28.889 --> 00:16:30.389
it were, about the book.
381
00:16:30.450 --> 00:16:33.129
We are the end of many book tours and the
382
00:16:33.169 --> 00:16:36.750
beginning of some. You talk about a lot of things
383
00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:38.779
and you call it fictional cells. And the first thing
384
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:40.580
I'm going to talk about is something that I can
385
00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:43.840
relate to. It's called fictional cells because you think of
386
00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:49.330
yourself as Two people. One is the confident actor guy
387
00:16:49.350 --> 00:16:55.840
who appears on talk shows, maybe podcasts, and he's Kyle McLaughlin.
388
00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.480
And then the other guy is the shy late bloomer
389
00:16:59.659 --> 00:17:01.100
from Yakima, Washington.
390
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:01.840
The real guy.
391
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.600
Who am I talking to today?
392
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.559
I mean, this is a whole thing we could talk
393
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.309
about because I think part of the reason for doing
394
00:17:09.349 --> 00:17:13.529
this in the first place was to bring those two together.
395
00:17:14.269 --> 00:17:17.910
And I think that's been happening. So they are growing together, finally,
396
00:17:17.930 --> 00:17:21.970
at 67. And I'm really happy about it, finally, because
397
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:26.119
I feel a little more confident, comfortable, and relaxed. So
398
00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:30.160
it's an amalgam now. But I do love going back
399
00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.799
and revisiting what I call other Kyle when he pops
400
00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:38.460
up because he's, as you said, confident, brash, why not guy.
401
00:17:38.930 --> 00:17:41.170
you know, of course you can play Jim Morrison in
402
00:17:41.190 --> 00:17:44.809
the doors. And I'm like, not a fucking chance that's
403
00:17:44.829 --> 00:17:45.430
going to happen.
404
00:17:45.589 --> 00:17:45.750
Yeah.
405
00:17:45.789 --> 00:17:45.950
Yeah.
406
00:17:46.109 --> 00:17:49.319
But, but that, but the dialogue between the two of them,
407
00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.259
which is something that, um, and I, obviously I work
408
00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:55.160
with someone on this ghostwriter, great guy. And, uh, we
409
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:56.940
talked about this in the very beginning saying this would
410
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.680
be a really interesting way to kind of reveal all
411
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:04.309
of those insecurities, you know, and because they're, They're.
412
00:18:04.170 --> 00:18:04.690
All over the book.
413
00:18:04.769 --> 00:18:05.809
I mean, it's everything, you know.
414
00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:08.539
What I love is throughout the book, dotted throughout the book,
415
00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:10.900
and you have such great stories about your career and
416
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.019
all these things that we're going to get into. There's
417
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:16.000
a dialogue between you and this other guy, and they
418
00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:20.099
are distinct because the other guy is ambitious, confident, and
419
00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.170
he's always saying, let's go. And you're always saying, well,
420
00:18:23.190 --> 00:18:25.549
I'm not really sure. Come on, you know, let's go.
421
00:18:25.650 --> 00:18:29.569
Come on, get your ass in gear. And here's what
422
00:18:29.609 --> 00:18:31.670
I can relate to, because I do this all the
423
00:18:31.690 --> 00:18:33.970
time and I've been doing it for years. I'll say
424
00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:35.930
something my wife won't like and she'll be like, what?
425
00:18:36.259 --> 00:18:39.319
And I'll say, just ignore him. And she'll say, who?
426
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:41.960
And I'll say, Conan. He's just being a bit of
427
00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:45.059
a dick right now. And she'll say, you're him. And
428
00:18:45.099 --> 00:18:47.380
I'll go, he's just trying to get in. And I've
429
00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.039
been doing that, which is diabolical. And I'm thinking that's so,
430
00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.240
you know, this duality is really a lot of us.
431
00:18:54.569 --> 00:18:57.150
I completely agree. I think everyone, if they can, if
432
00:18:57.170 --> 00:18:59.069
they sit back and really look at themselves and part
433
00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:01.970
of this is really it's therapy is too strong a word,
434
00:19:02.009 --> 00:19:04.009
but it's really a lot of you're thinking back and
435
00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:07.450
kind of looking over your career and examining choices, good
436
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.339
and bad and why you made them. And I think it's,
437
00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:14.450
it's just very revealing, you know? And I think, those
438
00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:17.289
two people, the brash, confident person that sort of believes
439
00:19:17.309 --> 00:19:19.650
you can do anything is really essential.
440
00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:20.130
Yes.
441
00:19:20.289 --> 00:19:23.289
Because otherwise you wouldn't step outside your house. You just
442
00:19:23.309 --> 00:19:25.950
stand on the couch all day and eat potato chips,
443
00:19:26.329 --> 00:19:30.690
but it's the sensitive, creative other person that sort of
444
00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:34.349
figures out how to navigate that, that I think is really,
445
00:19:35.150 --> 00:19:37.990
that's what we really approach in the book more. So
446
00:19:38.130 --> 00:19:40.619
it's me trying to, trying to navigate situations and I
447
00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:44.480
go through a couple of different situations with directors, particular
448
00:19:44.500 --> 00:19:47.650
directors that were challenging to say the least.
449
00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:50.440
Well, the other thing I just wanted to, as your therapist.
450
00:19:50.539 --> 00:19:53.900
Thank you. And I think as my therapist now, what
451
00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:58.640
I noticed. You better look for a new therapist. We
452
00:19:58.660 --> 00:19:59.119
can do it.
453
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.390
All of us together. Okay.
454
00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:03.450
What I noticed is that the other voice is punitive.
455
00:20:04.130 --> 00:20:07.490
The other voice, the, the Kyle McLaughlin, who's brash and
456
00:20:07.809 --> 00:20:08.549
has got an edge.
457
00:20:08.809 --> 00:20:10.420
He's, He's mean.
458
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.240
He's demanding. Fascinating.
459
00:20:13.700 --> 00:20:15.680
He takes no prisoners. You know what I mean? He really,
460
00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:19.859
in some of the stories, particularly, I think, some of
461
00:20:19.900 --> 00:20:24.009
the Sex and the City stuff, because the role was
462
00:20:24.069 --> 00:20:27.809
obviously chock full of all sorts of difficulties, let's just say,
463
00:20:28.150 --> 00:20:30.990
Trey McDougal, that as an actor, you sort of say, okay,
464
00:20:31.029 --> 00:20:32.829
I've got to, I'm really doing this. You know what
465
00:20:32.849 --> 00:20:35.009
I mean? And the other guy's saying, you're fucked. You
466
00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:35.630
know what I mean?
467
00:20:35.650 --> 00:20:36.190
Yeah, yeah.
468
00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:36.529
He knows.
469
00:20:36.849 --> 00:20:39.519
So I'm just like, all right. Um, and playing those
470
00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:41.819
two off each other was interesting because it really is
471
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.680
about how honest with yourself are you? Who are you?
472
00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:45.119
Yeah.
473
00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:48.460
And that was an interesting exploration. And I feel like
474
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:49.579
you understand that.
475
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:52.220
Well, I, I definitely agree with you that it helps
476
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:52.839
to get older.
477
00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:55.039
I agree with you. So I'm 67. And I think
478
00:20:55.059 --> 00:20:59.079
a part of the initiative to do this was, um,
479
00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:02.539
suddenly you're like, there's a little piece isn't exactly the
480
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.480
right word, but maybe like, oh, I kind of get
481
00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:07.759
the dynamic who I am.
482
00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:07.849
Yep.
483
00:21:08.750 --> 00:21:10.319
Um, as much as I did not want to be
484
00:21:10.670 --> 00:21:13.380
that for a long time, I'm like, so I am,
485
00:21:13.700 --> 00:21:15.759
you know, and part of that has actually been helped
486
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.500
by the podcast that I did where I've been kind
487
00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:21.440
of letting the silliness out because I'm basically a silly person.
488
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.480
Your podcast is what are we even doing? Which is
489
00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:24.599
a great title.
490
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:26.869
Thank you. It's been, it's been, and I had no
491
00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:29.130
idea going into it. It was sort of the same thing.
492
00:21:29.150 --> 00:21:30.470
I was like, I don't know if I have anything
493
00:21:30.509 --> 00:21:31.970
to offer. I don't know what's going to happen. All
494
00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:34.569
the insecurities are coming out. And then I just say,
495
00:21:34.589 --> 00:21:35.750
you know, I'm just going to jump in and have
496
00:21:35.769 --> 00:21:38.339
a conversation and And from that, I was like, oh,
497
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:41.660
this is actually working. And I'm genuinely curious about what
498
00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:47.109
younger creatives are doing, you know, between actors, musicians, podcasters, anybody.
499
00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:51.069
And that's been really fun and really fulfilling. And I
500
00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:53.390
think out of that has come this a little more
501
00:21:53.410 --> 00:21:55.920
acceptance somehow. It's like, all right, I'm just going to
502
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:57.759
tell it like it is. I mean, the whole point
503
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:00.059
of a memoir is, you know, you're not going to gloss.
504
00:22:00.099 --> 00:22:02.539
I mean, you know, there's things you choose not to tell, obviously.
505
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.839
And I've I'm pretty good at, I don't really call
506
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.160
anybody out. Well, I call a couple of people out sometimes.
507
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.640
But in terms of relationships, people, I'm just, I'm not
508
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.890
there to sort of tell all, you know, gotcha type
509
00:22:15.930 --> 00:22:19.549
of thing. It's just like, it's more how it impacted me, really,
510
00:22:19.609 --> 00:22:20.609
and kind of my process.
511
00:22:25.269 --> 00:22:32.400
This is an arrow. Mmm. And this is the sound
512
00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:33.819
of its minty bubbles.
513
00:22:36.130 --> 00:22:44.460
Conjuring melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into
514
00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:47.799
the moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
515
00:22:47.819 --> 00:22:51.329
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
516
00:22:55.940 --> 00:22:58.769
Have you made your Team Hope Christmas shoebox yet? There's
517
00:22:58.789 --> 00:23:01.569
still time to fill a shoebox with simple gifts and
518
00:23:01.609 --> 00:23:04.869
create a very special Christmas moment for a child affected
519
00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:07.589
by poverty. For many children, this will be the only
520
00:23:07.650 --> 00:23:10.849
gift they receive this Christmas and every item makes a
521
00:23:10.970 --> 00:23:14.009
real difference. Make your box of hope and love today
522
00:23:14.230 --> 00:23:16.710
and drop it off at any Mr. Price store or
523
00:23:16.789 --> 00:23:22.220
participating venue by November 10th or donate one online at teamhope.ie
524
00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:24.880
and discover the joy of making a difference.
525
00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:29.950
Everything that happens, happens by the people.
526
00:23:30.230 --> 00:23:33.150
Fan voice in League of Ireland is like nothing else.
527
00:23:34.220 --> 00:23:37.359
There's so many moving parts. Volunteers need it all the
528
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.180
time for everything. Anybody who wants to get involved can
529
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:40.700
get involved.
530
00:23:41.500 --> 00:23:43.480
The League of Ireland is definitely powered by people.
531
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:45.460
It's just a special place to be.
532
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.140
Memories, characters, stories, it's what the League is built on.
533
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:50.829
I stick with the League of Ireland.
534
00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:53.069
Best League in the world.
535
00:23:53.089 --> 00:23:55.829
SSC Artricity, bringing a different kind of energy to the
536
00:23:55.869 --> 00:23:56.470
League of Ireland.
537
00:24:03.069 --> 00:24:05.970
Well, I want to take us through, because you've had
538
00:24:06.029 --> 00:24:09.789
this incredible career. A lot of people don't know this.
539
00:24:10.269 --> 00:24:13.829
You are a stage actor, and you're really interested in
540
00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:17.640
just being a stage actor when you get this out-of-the-blue call.
541
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:21.819
They're making the movie Dune. This is the first go-around
542
00:24:21.859 --> 00:24:26.099
with Dune, long before the current Dune movies. And you
543
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.500
really have no chance. You're an unknown actor. You read
544
00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:37.380
for the role of Paul Atreides. And suddenly, you are
545
00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:40.819
meeting with Dino De Laurentiis and David Lynch. And then
546
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:41.680
you have the role.
547
00:24:42.609 --> 00:24:43.769
And it was suddenly.
548
00:24:44.109 --> 00:24:47.750
It was very suddenly. And what gets crazier is then
549
00:24:47.769 --> 00:24:51.269
you're making the movie. And this is going to be
550
00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:56.299
intended to be a massive blockbuster like Star Wars. And
551
00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.250
you all sign contracts. This is the first one. but
552
00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:02.230
you're going to be doing at least three. And this
553
00:25:02.289 --> 00:25:04.730
is going to be your career for the next decade.
554
00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:07.049
You don't know anything because you're new to it all.
555
00:25:07.990 --> 00:25:10.509
And so you're like, okay, this is what's happening now.
556
00:25:11.529 --> 00:25:13.890
And then you, I love how you describe it. You
557
00:25:13.930 --> 00:25:17.380
go off, you make the movie. It's fascinating experience making
558
00:25:17.390 --> 00:25:20.259
the movie. And then you go off and then, you know,
559
00:25:20.299 --> 00:25:22.240
the movie comes out, but you're not really part of that.
560
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.380
You're kind of unaware. And you're unaware of what's going on.
561
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.410
And then you're given the news. Who gives you the news?
562
00:25:30.470 --> 00:25:32.289
I can't remember. How did you find out finally that
563
00:25:32.309 --> 00:25:33.619
this movie did not go well?
564
00:25:33.650 --> 00:25:35.619
Did not go well. I was sitting in my dad's
565
00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:38.779
office in Yakima, Washington. Stockbroker, he was there. And I
566
00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:41.000
was sitting with him at the corner office. And I
567
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.640
got a call from my manager at the time. And
568
00:25:43.819 --> 00:25:45.380
he just says, kind of in the book, he says
569
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.519
the same thing. He says, you know, it's not looking good.
570
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:52.000
I'm like, what do you mean? So to go back
571
00:25:52.059 --> 00:25:55.099
and to understand why I was so out of the loop, contractually,
572
00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:57.619
I was not allowed to work in film or television
573
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:58.869
until the movie was released.
574
00:25:59.160 --> 00:25:59.380
What?
575
00:25:59.630 --> 00:26:03.970
So I shot the thing 83. Yeah. We wrapped like September,
576
00:26:04.009 --> 00:26:07.769
October of 1983 movie comes out winter of 84. So
577
00:26:07.789 --> 00:26:10.390
I've got a year and some change.
578
00:26:10.430 --> 00:26:11.150
You can't do anything.
579
00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:13.269
I can't do anything. So I went to New York.
580
00:26:13.349 --> 00:26:15.539
I auditioned for, I think I talked to the audition for,
581
00:26:15.890 --> 00:26:16.990
was it Chicago maybe?
582
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:17.519
Or Ferris?
583
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.839
What was it? Biloxi blues, maybe something. And just, and
584
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:22.900
I'm like, well, and I went back to Seattle and
585
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:25.680
I did a play in Tacoma, you know, and just,
586
00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:28.579
I don't know, trying to keep busy really. And then, uh,
587
00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:31.140
finally the movie comes out and the expectation is, okay,
588
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:32.339
we're going to do this. And then we're going to
589
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.519
start right away. And, um, I could kind of tell
590
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:37.480
it to premiere. We had the premiere at the Kennedy
591
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:40.880
center in DC and people watched it. And I watched
592
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.099
it and I said, boy, it's kind of hard to follow.
593
00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:45.519
I mean, I know the book really, really well.
594
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:46.240
And I was like, okay.
595
00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:48.660
But if, but it was kind of cool. What I
596
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.900
loved about it was watching everybody else, all my friends.
597
00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:53.039
So it was fun to see Patrick and Everett McGill
598
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:54.339
and Patrick Stewart.
599
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:54.640
Yes.
600
00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:57.849
And do this. And, and, uh, And Dean Stockwell. But
601
00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:01.279
it was like, okay. And then they had the premiere
602
00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:03.299
in London. So we went to the premiere in London.
603
00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:07.240
And that was, you know, Sting and the gang and
604
00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:10.059
everybody was after the after party. The after party was very,
605
00:27:10.609 --> 00:27:14.950
we were at Blondes in Mayfair, Georgie Best's club, Blondes,
606
00:27:15.230 --> 00:27:19.549
named after his preferred person, female person. I'm sorry.
607
00:27:19.569 --> 00:27:20.190
Anyway. I'm sorry.
608
00:27:20.329 --> 00:27:21.089
Anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
609
00:27:21.579 --> 00:27:23.819
Whatever yeah but it was kind.
610
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:39.859
Of my club was called Willing popular.
611
00:27:32.529 --> 00:27:36.950
The but it was kind of like a wake she
612
00:27:36.970 --> 00:27:38.089
said yes.
613
00:27:40.049 --> 00:27:42.430
But so you go there and handwriting was on the
614
00:27:42.450 --> 00:27:43.769
wall you can tell the vibe you can tell the
615
00:27:43.789 --> 00:27:45.430
vibe it's not great you know what's interesting I'll tell
616
00:27:45.450 --> 00:27:48.589
you my personal experience is Dune and everyone's you know
617
00:27:48.609 --> 00:27:52.289
it's gonna be huge I'm interested to go I go with,
618
00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:55.789
I think my brother Luke, we went to the Hearthstone Plaza,
619
00:27:55.869 --> 00:27:58.369
which I, whenever I go back to Brookline, it's.
620
00:27:58.289 --> 00:27:59.029
On Route 9.
621
00:27:59.029 --> 00:27:59.609
That's amazing.
622
00:27:59.630 --> 00:28:03.410
And it's not a theater anymore. Okay. But we went
623
00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:07.279
to the Hearthstone Plaza and I go in to see
624
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.579
Dune and I'm, you know, one ticket for Dune, please. Or,
625
00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:12.779
you know, here you go, sir. And they went, and
626
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.119
this is for you. And they handed me like a
627
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.950
little booklet. And I said, what's this? And I start
628
00:28:17.990 --> 00:28:20.640
flipping through it. It's, this is what you need to
629
00:28:20.779 --> 00:28:24.279
read to understand the movie you're going to. And it
630
00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:26.539
starts to say like, well, there's a spice and there's,
631
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.220
everyone's fighting over the spice and there's this guy. But remember,
632
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:32.599
there's two families. And I thought I'm being given homework
633
00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:35.720
before I see a movie. This is not a good sign.
634
00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:38.599
But I had never, I've never experienced, I mean, there've
635
00:28:38.619 --> 00:28:40.359
been times where I've wished I had a booklet for
636
00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:40.940
a movie, but.
637
00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:45.319
Somebody's idea at Universal was let's give them a glossary
638
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.980
so they can follow along in a dark movie theater.
639
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.289
Wait, I'm trying to read. Yo, I didn't even know
640
00:28:52.309 --> 00:28:53.349
how I was supposed to be looking at this. I
641
00:28:53.349 --> 00:28:55.670
think this is the Baron. I don't know. What's he doing?
642
00:28:55.829 --> 00:28:56.029
Wait.
643
00:28:56.529 --> 00:28:59.750
And he's the, okay, I see the family line. I
644
00:28:59.769 --> 00:29:02.349
think I figured it out. So.
645
00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:03.789
Not a good sign.
646
00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:06.210
Well, there was some of that in the later Star
647
00:29:06.230 --> 00:29:09.690
Wars movies. We talked about this where they really got
648
00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:12.869
into the bureaucracy of And I thought, this is not
649
00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:15.630
what people watch Star Wars for. But it was, you know,
650
00:29:15.670 --> 00:29:18.599
and later on and, you know, when they brought Star
651
00:29:18.619 --> 00:29:20.660
Wars back and it was, you know, like... That's interesting.
652
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.420
We don't have enough votes from the council. You know.
653
00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:28.299
Didn't David Lynch.
654
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.019
Turn down Return of the Jedi basically to do Dune?
655
00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:30.960
Did you remember?
656
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:33.230
Well, I know he turned it down and he tells
657
00:29:33.289 --> 00:29:37.230
a story about going up to meet George Lucas and
658
00:29:37.250 --> 00:29:41.220
he developed a horrible headache. Just from the meeting? No,
659
00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:44.559
leading up to the meeting. And he got to the
660
00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:47.140
point where he actually, I don't think he may have
661
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:48.839
taken the meeting. I don't remember, but it was like.
662
00:29:49.490 --> 00:29:52.450
something was just working against him, and he knew this
663
00:29:52.509 --> 00:29:54.630
was not what he should be doing.
664
00:29:55.069 --> 00:29:57.539
So there's a world where David Lynch would have directed
665
00:29:57.819 --> 00:29:58.319
which one?
666
00:29:58.539 --> 00:30:01.460
Return of the Jedi. Return of the Jedi, yeah.
667
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:04.119
I would have loved to see a Darth Vader walking backwards.
668
00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:08.460
So it doesn't work out, and a stunning thing happens.
669
00:30:13.069 --> 00:30:14.829
You go through this experience where you think, well, this
670
00:30:15.009 --> 00:30:17.549
might be it for me. I was a complete unknown.
671
00:30:17.569 --> 00:30:21.769
I'm in a massive, expensive movie. It's not happening. This
672
00:30:21.829 --> 00:30:25.099
might not work out. David Lynch does a very unusual thing.
673
00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:30.559
He immediately casts you again in Blue Velvet. And I think,
674
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.920
I mean, this guy, your story is so much also
675
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:41.109
David Lynch's story because it's about your relationships. That's very unusual.
676
00:30:41.130 --> 00:30:44.250
He bonded with you in some crucial way and knew
677
00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:45.769
this is my guy.
678
00:30:46.009 --> 00:30:50.289
Yeah. It was an amazing thing for him to do. Unexpected.
679
00:30:50.309 --> 00:30:52.210
I mean, I know unexpected maybe is not the word,
680
00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:54.509
but we were connected. He had shown me the script
681
00:30:54.529 --> 00:30:57.789
to Blue Velvet while we were filming Dune saying, you know,
682
00:30:57.809 --> 00:31:00.430
I want to do this and for you to do Jeffrey.
683
00:31:00.470 --> 00:31:03.099
And I was like, okay, great. I love the script
684
00:31:03.470 --> 00:31:05.650
so much. And the story goes in the book, you know,
685
00:31:05.710 --> 00:31:09.099
I showed the script. My mom was going through ovarian cancer.
686
00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:12.180
cancer treatments at the time. And, uh, but I wanted
687
00:31:12.220 --> 00:31:13.849
her to be involved because she was a big part
688
00:31:13.910 --> 00:31:16.069
of me becoming an actor. And so I said, Hey,
689
00:31:16.089 --> 00:31:18.609
here's this, here's the second script that I've ever read.
690
00:31:18.630 --> 00:31:21.369
Dune being the first, Velvet was the second.
691
00:31:21.390 --> 00:31:24.430
What an incredible career. By the way, I can relate
692
00:31:24.470 --> 00:31:26.109
to some of this, you know? So yeah.
693
00:31:26.130 --> 00:31:28.259
And I'm like, okay. So I shared it with her
694
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:30.920
and didn't hear anything. And, uh, so I sort of
695
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:34.819
called and spoke to her husband and, um, he was like, well,
696
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:36.180
you know, when I talk about in the book, he said,
697
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:39.099
you know, she wasn't really, and I'm like, yeah, God,
698
00:31:39.619 --> 00:31:41.359
God's sake, what was I thinking? I mean, the script
699
00:31:41.420 --> 00:31:45.480
is very graphic and harrowing and everything is like written.
700
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.500
What you see is sort of a softer version of
701
00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:51.140
what was really written, you know? So believe it or not.
702
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.980
And I said, I got it. I got it. She's upset.
703
00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:55.279
I said, okay, I'm not going to do it. So
704
00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:57.920
I basically said, David, I can't do it. I explained
705
00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:00.420
to him why. And he said, I understand. And I said,
706
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.799
I can't do it. I'm so sorry. And, um, which
707
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:05.140
was crazy because I had no other prospects, but I
708
00:32:05.180 --> 00:32:06.990
was like, well, okay, we'll figure it out.
709
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:08.460
But I get that. I don't want to upset my mom.
710
00:32:08.900 --> 00:32:09.019
Yeah.
711
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:10.049
It's a pretty strong.
712
00:32:10.069 --> 00:32:13.490
Yeah. I was 25, I guess. Yeah. And she was
713
00:32:13.569 --> 00:32:17.990
in this very vulnerable time. And as I said, she
714
00:32:18.569 --> 00:32:21.430
was kind of the one that kept doing this to
715
00:32:21.470 --> 00:32:22.670
me when I'd be like, oh, I don't know if
716
00:32:22.710 --> 00:32:24.609
I want to do this acting thing with these kids.
717
00:32:24.630 --> 00:32:26.089
She'd push you a little bit. Nudge.
718
00:32:26.509 --> 00:32:28.210
A little nudge here and there. And then I kind of,
719
00:32:28.250 --> 00:32:29.849
then I didn't need it any longer. I was like, okay.
720
00:32:29.869 --> 00:32:33.269
And then she, you know, something she, I think, deep
721
00:32:33.289 --> 00:32:36.470
down had always wanted to maybe pursue to do something
722
00:32:36.490 --> 00:32:38.619
in the arts like that. She loved being on stage.
723
00:32:38.990 --> 00:32:41.119
She was an okay actress. I watched a couple of
724
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:42.539
her songs.
725
00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:43.099
Sorry, Mom.
726
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:46.279
But, you know, but she loved it. She loved it,
727
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:46.700
you know.
728
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.680
Lightning bolt just hit our podcast studio.
729
00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:53.019
Yeah, the night outside. That's all right. We're good.
730
00:32:53.579 --> 00:32:58.859
Anyway. But you make a point that Dune was, you know,
731
00:32:58.900 --> 00:32:59.740
was not a success.
732
00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:00.140
Yeah.
733
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.480
And you're in this precarious position. And you now see
734
00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:05.039
that it was one of the greatest things that could
735
00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:08.960
have happened to you. It led to... all these fascinating projects,
736
00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:13.970
you know, chiefly Twin Peaks. And to get back to
737
00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:19.769
Twin Peaks, I think David Lynch showed you that script
738
00:33:19.829 --> 00:33:22.039
when I think it was called Lumbertown or something?
739
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:23.680
Northwest Passage.
740
00:33:23.740 --> 00:33:24.539
Northwest Passage.
741
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:24.640
Yeah.
742
00:33:24.990 --> 00:33:27.190
And I think the town was called Lumbertown or something.
743
00:33:27.210 --> 00:33:28.470
There was a Lumberton. Yeah.
744
00:33:28.490 --> 00:33:32.390
Lumberton, which was referenced, which is so specific.
745
00:33:32.450 --> 00:33:32.599
Yeah.
746
00:33:32.619 --> 00:33:33.319
Yeah. Yeah.
747
00:33:33.339 --> 00:33:34.500
Blue Velvet had a Lumberton.
748
00:33:34.579 --> 00:33:35.039
That's right.
749
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:35.500
That's right.
750
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:35.779
Okay.
751
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:38.480
So, yeah. So you can see it's, it's plans.
752
00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:40.140
How did you end up back in Blue Velvet after
753
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:40.559
saying no?
754
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:45.079
Well, I honestly, so it's just time went on and I,
755
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:47.559
and I was, I couldn't get the script out of
756
00:33:47.579 --> 00:33:49.220
my head. I said, and you know, it was like,
757
00:33:49.700 --> 00:33:53.569
nothing else is really happening. And, I really understood the
758
00:33:53.609 --> 00:33:56.069
story of that young man's journey where he would be
759
00:33:56.109 --> 00:33:58.410
drawn to these two different women and then the light
760
00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:01.759
and the dark, you know, and, um, trying to rationalize
761
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.480
the two. Um, and I just, I finally said to
762
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:06.680
my mom, I said, mom, I know I have to
763
00:34:06.740 --> 00:34:09.539
do this and I'm going to be okay because it's David.
764
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.219
I know it's going to be great. Um, so I
765
00:34:12.260 --> 00:34:14.159
just want you to know, I've got to go forward
766
00:34:14.179 --> 00:34:15.679
with it. Do I have your blessing? And she said, yes,
767
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.769
of course, of course. So, uh, off we went. And
768
00:34:19.949 --> 00:34:23.769
we made Blue Velvet in Wilmington, North Carolina. And it
769
00:34:23.809 --> 00:34:28.579
was the antithesis of the Dune experience. Dune was huge.
770
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:32.699
Eight massive sound stages in Churubusco Studios in Mexico City.
771
00:34:33.340 --> 00:34:37.760
We were a little tiny, forgotten Eddie somewhere in a
772
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.130
little stream somewhere in the middle of the South. Nobody
773
00:34:42.170 --> 00:34:46.050
bothering us. And David was able to bring in something
774
00:34:46.090 --> 00:34:48.469
that was just extraordinary. And there we were.
775
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:50.340
Here's what I remember, because I want to set the
776
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:54.280
table for Twin Peaks, because I think people have so
777
00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:58.760
many choices now with streaming and the line between cinema
778
00:34:58.820 --> 00:35:02.500
and television has really blurred. We live now in an
779
00:35:02.619 --> 00:35:05.659
era where there can be high, high art on your
780
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:10.079
television screen. And so I'm trying to make it clear
781
00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:14.840
that in 1989, television was one thing and going to
782
00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:17.619
the movie theaters was another thing. And then suddenly, and
783
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.739
it was a mid-season, It was twin seasons, mid-season replacement,
784
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.289
which usually meant not going to be the greatest show.
785
00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:26.050
We also had this idea, but it wasn't good enough
786
00:35:26.090 --> 00:35:27.070
to go on in the fall.
787
00:35:27.110 --> 00:35:29.230
So it's, you know. We're going to throw these seven
788
00:35:29.269 --> 00:35:30.309
episodes up and see what happens.
789
00:35:30.429 --> 00:35:32.889
See what happens. And so I remembered I was living
790
00:35:32.909 --> 00:35:36.699
in New York and I'm living up on 96th Street
791
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:40.360
with my girlfriend at the time. And this show is
792
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:41.920
going to come on. And we'd heard a little bit
793
00:35:41.980 --> 00:35:44.719
about it and we watched it. It had a tone
794
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:47.090
that was completely unique. And keep in mind, this is
795
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:51.730
with commercials. So you had this, but even with commercials,
796
00:35:52.110 --> 00:35:55.659
you were suddenly in this world. And when the episode
797
00:35:55.699 --> 00:35:59.199
was over, the first episode was over, we, I mean,
798
00:35:59.219 --> 00:36:01.960
I felt like I'd been hit over the head with lumber.
799
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:05.929
And that wasn't my, that was everybody's reaction that you
800
00:36:05.949 --> 00:36:12.179
guys created something that I think foretold what TV was
801
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:15.579
going to be at its very best 25 years later.
802
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:17.659
You know what I mean? It was like you got
803
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:18.559
on a time machine.
804
00:36:18.579 --> 00:36:19.059
I agree.
805
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:23.889
Someone had a really great Netflix or HBO idea right
806
00:36:23.969 --> 00:36:27.289
now and really went for it and then got on
807
00:36:27.329 --> 00:36:30.230
a time machine and went back to 1989 and the
808
00:36:30.429 --> 00:36:34.289
performances and the whole thing and people lost their minds.
809
00:36:34.369 --> 00:36:34.929
I was one of them.
810
00:36:35.139 --> 00:36:37.559
I mean, it was really David. You know, David approached
811
00:36:38.179 --> 00:36:42.250
television and And it wasn't television. It was another way,
812
00:36:42.289 --> 00:36:46.510
another canvas to work on. And he understood cinema and
813
00:36:46.530 --> 00:36:49.690
that language. So it was never about making or making
814
00:36:49.730 --> 00:36:51.510
a TV show. It was about we're making Twin Peaks
815
00:36:51.590 --> 00:36:52.940
and this is what it is. And then we're going
816
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.619
to stick it on your television set.
817
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:55.019
Yeah.
818
00:36:55.480 --> 00:37:00.130
And it was... Yeah, it was mind-blowing. And that pilot episode,
819
00:37:00.170 --> 00:37:03.070
that first episode, is one of the things I'm most
820
00:37:03.150 --> 00:37:07.010
proud of in my career. Just my performance there, creating Cooper,
821
00:37:07.070 --> 00:37:09.360
bringing him into that world. I was really, I said,
822
00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:11.960
I was, good job. I don't say that about a
823
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.880
lot of things, but for that one, I was like, no.
824
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.460
When I see anything I've done, I think, I think,
825
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.019
you nailed it. Killed it. Anything.
826
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:22.070
That's other Conan.
827
00:37:22.110 --> 00:37:29.500
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. There's also a third Conan. It
828
00:37:29.539 --> 00:37:34.909
might be seven total. He's delusional. Yeah. They're all delusional.
829
00:37:35.130 --> 00:37:36.690
We have to be delusional to be in this business
830
00:37:36.730 --> 00:37:37.130
a little bit.
831
00:37:37.150 --> 00:37:41.150
We really do. You need some of that. Your approach
832
00:37:41.210 --> 00:37:45.769
to Cooper, getting his voice right, and you're using some
833
00:37:45.809 --> 00:37:46.889
of David Lynch.
834
00:37:46.909 --> 00:37:48.579
I'm using some of David. I'm borrowing David.
835
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:50.760
And David, one of David's things is the thumbs up.
836
00:37:50.780 --> 00:37:53.860
And I remember the first time on Twin Peaks when
837
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.000
you just give a thumbs up. I was like, what
838
00:37:56.019 --> 00:38:01.099
the hell? Is this like a little kid does? And
839
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.900
you said you just outright took that from David Lynch.
840
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.239
Oh, yeah.
841
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.860
Lifted it right from him. And his voice, his way
842
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:08.380
of speaking was kind of, you know, he's a little
843
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.320
more like this. He's from Montana, but his voice has
844
00:38:12.340 --> 00:38:13.929
got kind of a twang to it.
845
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:14.440
Yeah.
846
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:19.030
And, you know, and there's a lot of enthusiasm, you know,
847
00:38:19.789 --> 00:38:20.750
when David speaks.
848
00:38:20.849 --> 00:38:21.170
Coop!
849
00:38:21.590 --> 00:38:21.730
Yeah.
850
00:38:21.849 --> 00:38:24.360
It's like this whole thing, you know. And I thought
851
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:29.000
so many things about it were just his casting. David's casting,
852
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:33.320
I think, is extraordinary. And putting me with Michael Onkean,
853
00:38:33.340 --> 00:38:36.800
the Sheriff Truman, together because just completely the opposite energy.
854
00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:37.260
Yeah.
855
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:38.900
Was, again, sort of brilliant.
856
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:43.530
There is, I think, I remember I mentioned Jim Downey
857
00:38:43.550 --> 00:38:44.510
was a huge fan.
858
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:48.570
Jim Downey nearly gave me a heart attack, you know,
859
00:38:49.110 --> 00:38:51.070
because it's the whole thing about going back to SNL.
860
00:38:51.130 --> 00:38:51.269
Yeah.
861
00:38:51.550 --> 00:38:53.409
They don't give you the monologue until- Oh, no, no, no.
862
00:38:53.489 --> 00:38:53.949
This is a thing.
863
00:38:53.969 --> 00:38:54.829
Not the day before.
864
00:38:55.909 --> 00:38:56.269
Minutes.
865
00:38:56.969 --> 00:38:57.150
Yeah.
866
00:38:57.389 --> 00:38:58.989
Before you walk on stage.
867
00:38:59.010 --> 00:39:01.789
I should probably- Can we talk about Jim for just
868
00:39:01.829 --> 00:39:02.250
a second?
869
00:39:02.389 --> 00:39:06.090
No, that's not just Jim. That was a regular- Was
870
00:39:06.110 --> 00:39:09.159
that a Lauren thing? No, no, no. It was just institutionalized.
871
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:11.570
It was okay. Okay. I don't feel so bad.
872
00:39:11.579 --> 00:39:13.800
It wasn't me. No one in my day, no one
873
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.500
was assigned to do the monologue. And so you didn't
874
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:20.119
really get much. You didn't get any credit for coming
875
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.760
up with the monologue. And everyone is so desperate to
876
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.380
get their sketch on that that's all anyone's focused on.
877
00:39:25.820 --> 00:39:28.530
And so we all learned to say, oh yeah, no, no,
878
00:39:28.550 --> 00:39:31.610
we're working on it. It's coming. It's coming. And we
879
00:39:31.650 --> 00:39:35.750
would do that up until, you know, the morning of
880
00:39:35.829 --> 00:39:39.510
the show. And of course the host is one, usually
881
00:39:39.530 --> 00:39:41.699
an actor. I'm, uh, you know, comic lock and can
882
00:39:41.739 --> 00:39:44.840
play anything. It's like, well, okay, this is good. I'll,
883
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:46.909
I'll play this part. I'll play that part. But the
884
00:39:47.010 --> 00:39:49.269
most terrifying part to most hosts is when you have
885
00:39:49.309 --> 00:39:51.280
to walk out as yourself and say, well, it's sure
886
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:55.980
a thrill to be hosting Saturday Night Live. Cue applause. Okay, well, anyway, what?
887
00:39:56.659 --> 00:39:58.320
What are you going to say? And that was the
888
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:01.380
most terrifying thing. And we would just lie. and say
889
00:40:01.420 --> 00:40:03.739
it's all being worked on when it was never being
890
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:07.099
worked on. And then Lorne would usually call two of
891
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:09.440
us in. Sometimes it would be my, I remember on
892
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:11.699
several occasions it was me and Bob Odenkirk, you know,
893
00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:14.989
get those two young idiots in here. And Bob and
894
00:40:15.090 --> 00:40:17.050
I would go in and he'd be like, just go
895
00:40:17.130 --> 00:40:19.670
figure out a fucking monologue and get it down to,
896
00:40:20.150 --> 00:40:23.409
you know, George Steinbrenner of the Yankees. And we'd go
897
00:40:23.449 --> 00:40:25.809
down and we would have like a really thin idea
898
00:40:25.829 --> 00:40:27.780
and go, Oh, Mr. Steinbrenner, get the fuck out of
899
00:40:27.820 --> 00:40:30.760
my house. That sucks. Get out of here. I remember
900
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:33.039
he has big world series ring. Get the fuck out
901
00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:35.840
of here. Okay. And we both run away. Someday we'll
902
00:40:35.860 --> 00:40:38.639
be famous and we won't have to put up with this. Uh,
903
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:40.840
but that sums it up pretty well. Yeah.
904
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:41.010
Yeah.
905
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:43.630
So that was that experience. But I think the thing
906
00:40:44.030 --> 00:40:46.710
that was so unusual, I mean, there's so many things
907
00:40:46.730 --> 00:40:49.190
that were fantastic about twin peaks, but, And when it
908
00:40:49.250 --> 00:40:53.050
first came out was I remembered the attention to detail
909
00:40:53.070 --> 00:40:55.519
and how suddenly everyone in the country was obsessed with
910
00:40:55.659 --> 00:40:59.460
coffee pie. Like your character orders some pie and just
911
00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:03.480
really likes the pie. And this doesn't drive the plot
912
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.219
in any way. But I remembered watching that show and thinking,
913
00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:09.260
I bet that I don't even like pie. I was
914
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:12.719
like that pie and that coffee. that looks amazing. Uh,
915
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:18.219
but yeah, but there was, there was so many elements
916
00:41:18.260 --> 00:41:20.260
of that show. It became a whole obsession.
917
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:20.739
Yeah.
918
00:41:21.019 --> 00:41:24.219
And then you talk in the book about something that
919
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:27.000
you thought was the death knell for the show, which
920
00:41:27.019 --> 00:41:30.880
is ABC over the summer, you know, cause the murder
921
00:41:30.900 --> 00:41:33.380
is who, the mystery is who killed Laura Palmer.
922
00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:33.679
Sure.
923
00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:36.860
And that was on buses everywhere who killed Laura Palmer.
924
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:39.059
And you've got to tune in to see who killed Laura,
925
00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:42.780
Laura Palmer. And what, David Lynch didn't think that was
926
00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:47.130
necessarily the most important thing. In fact, this killing is
927
00:41:47.190 --> 00:41:51.050
a way into this whole strange world. But the network
928
00:41:51.610 --> 00:41:54.789
was pushing and pushing and pushing that who killed Laura
929
00:41:54.829 --> 00:41:57.969
Palmer was the reason to watch. And you think, in
930
00:41:58.010 --> 00:41:59.449
a way, they killed the golden goose.
931
00:41:59.570 --> 00:42:03.219
Yeah, I definitely think that. And, you know, it's like
932
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:07.119
the scorpion and the turtle, whatever it is. It's their nature.
933
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:09.719
It's their nature. They want eyes. That's right.
934
00:42:09.739 --> 00:42:12.019
A scorpion is riding on the back of a turtle
935
00:42:12.059 --> 00:42:14.079
to get him across the river. And then he stings
936
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:16.900
the animal. And the animal says, why'd you sting me?
937
00:42:16.940 --> 00:42:18.659
Now we're both going to drown. And the scorpion says,
938
00:42:18.699 --> 00:42:19.219
it's my nature.
939
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:19.880
Yeah.
940
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:21.659
I sting. And that's what they did.
941
00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:25.340
Yeah. And so you can't really blame them. I mean,
942
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:28.579
that's how they're going to operate. But once you remove that,
943
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:33.219
because it was a really powerful theme, you know, that
944
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:35.519
just trying to solve that. And instead of sort of
945
00:42:35.929 --> 00:42:38.679
soft peddling that and sort of focusing on just this
946
00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:42.280
crazy community of people and what was going to happen there. Um,
947
00:42:42.610 --> 00:42:44.809
that became the entire focus. And they finally, I think
948
00:42:44.869 --> 00:42:48.710
in episode nine of that season, I remember, um, of
949
00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:50.150
the second season of the second season.
950
00:42:50.190 --> 00:42:50.610
Yeah.
951
00:42:51.130 --> 00:42:53.389
Um, and it's very strange because we did that. We
952
00:42:53.469 --> 00:42:56.750
did the, the mid season replacement. So we were, we
953
00:42:56.809 --> 00:42:59.610
shot all the episodes all done in the can. And
954
00:42:59.690 --> 00:43:03.329
then waited. And then they finally put them on. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
955
00:43:03.349 --> 00:43:04.789
So we weren't filming during that process. We were just
956
00:43:04.809 --> 00:43:07.010
kind of watching this thing go, oh, my God. You know,
957
00:43:07.030 --> 00:43:09.409
it's like a tidal wave filming. We started right back
958
00:43:09.469 --> 00:43:12.130
up again like a few months after that in the
959
00:43:12.170 --> 00:43:15.190
fall to start filming for the second season on 22
960
00:43:15.190 --> 00:43:18.530
or 23, however many we did. It was kind of
961
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:22.019
everything was like, oh, what's happening? You know, neither Mark
962
00:43:22.059 --> 00:43:26.159
nor David were really interested in babysitting a show, show
963
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:28.250
running a show. Yeah. They have other things they're going
964
00:43:28.269 --> 00:43:29.630
to do. David's going to often direct a film. Mark
965
00:43:29.650 --> 00:43:31.510
wants to direct a film. So they kind of like,
966
00:43:31.829 --> 00:43:33.550
they sort of pawn it off on, well, we've got
967
00:43:33.570 --> 00:43:36.449
some writers here, good writers, you know, but there's only
968
00:43:36.530 --> 00:43:37.110
one David Lynch.
969
00:43:37.630 --> 00:43:37.809
Yeah.
970
00:43:37.869 --> 00:43:40.360
And David Lynch is thinking, you want more of these?
971
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:41.079
Right.
972
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:42.519
Which is everyone's dream.
973
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:43.119
Right.
974
00:43:43.340 --> 00:43:47.440
And you believe that he didn't really know who killed
975
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.380
Laura Palmer until it was his job to figure that out.
976
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:53.260
Who it should be. He never wanted to pin it
977
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:53.860
on anybody.
978
00:43:54.010 --> 00:43:54.179
Yeah.
979
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:54.280
Yeah.
980
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.579
I remember watching at some point and thinking, I still
981
00:43:56.599 --> 00:43:58.639
love the show. I don't think they know who killed
982
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:01.389
Laura Palmer. And the writers are just going to come
983
00:44:01.469 --> 00:44:04.550
up with like an owl that can transform into a
984
00:44:04.630 --> 00:44:07.329
Native American killer who can transform into an old lady,
985
00:44:07.389 --> 00:44:07.869
you know, whatever.
986
00:44:07.889 --> 00:44:09.550
It would have been fantastic. But in some ways, the
987
00:44:09.590 --> 00:44:11.719
sketch that we did on SNL sort of, I mean,
988
00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:12.480
that was foreshadowing.
989
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:14.820
Yes, it was. Yeah. I mean, the sketch was all about,
990
00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:17.019
it's very clear who killed Laura Palmer and you don't
991
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:17.380
want to know.
992
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.559
And I don't, I said, I don't know. Leo, Leo,
993
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:23.900
who you were wrestling with, pulls out all the photos.
994
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:26.659
Remember he said, here's, here I am. Here's me killing her.
995
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:26.960
Yes.
996
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:28.360
Here's dying. She's dying.
997
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:29.159
Here she's dead.
998
00:44:29.179 --> 00:44:29.480
Yeah. Yeah.
999
00:44:29.500 --> 00:44:29.619
Yeah.
1000
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:33.750
I'm like. Let's get some pie. We'll take that under consideration.
1001
00:44:37.750 --> 00:44:43.070
How did you deal personally with overnight becoming one of
1002
00:44:43.329 --> 00:44:46.349
the most famous faces in America? How did you, Kyle MacLachlan,
1003
00:44:46.369 --> 00:44:49.869
deal with, oh my God, there's Agent Cooper when Agent
1004
00:44:49.909 --> 00:44:51.869
Cooper is the guy to be?
1005
00:44:51.949 --> 00:44:52.230
Yeah.
1006
00:44:52.329 --> 00:44:54.269
Did you like that? Does it frighten you?
1007
00:44:54.469 --> 00:44:57.269
I was, again, kind of oblivious to the whole thing.
1008
00:44:57.309 --> 00:45:02.039
It was happening. Remember, this is pre-social, pre-anything. The only
1009
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:04.739
way that you knew that you had an impact was,
1010
00:45:05.860 --> 00:45:08.000
for instance, the girls were on the cover of Rolling Stone.
1011
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:08.880
Right.
1012
00:45:08.900 --> 00:45:11.000
So that was pretty cool. Right. David was on the
1013
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:13.400
cover of Time. So, you know, these are the indicators
1014
00:45:13.460 --> 00:45:15.500
to say, oh, and also the numbers for the show
1015
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:16.780
were pretty significant.
1016
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.159
Oh, like 40 million people watching an episode?
1017
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:22.519
Yeah, which was crazy. But we're all just kind of
1018
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.159
driving out to Van Nuys, you know, getting in the
1019
00:45:25.179 --> 00:45:27.099
hair and makeup trailer, doing our thing, you know. Yeah,
1020
00:45:27.139 --> 00:45:29.860
you're doing the thing. you know, hosting SNL was a
1021
00:45:29.900 --> 00:45:31.900
big indicator too. It was like, but I looked at
1022
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:34.000
SNL as kind of like, it's kind of like an
1023
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:36.130
extension of my acting training. It was like, oh, we
1024
00:45:36.150 --> 00:45:37.730
get to go in and we get to do this thing.
1025
00:45:37.750 --> 00:45:39.110
We're writing stuff. We're going to make it and it's
1026
00:45:39.130 --> 00:45:41.210
going to be fantastic. It's going to be like summer stock, right?
1027
00:45:41.489 --> 00:45:45.429
An abbreviated summer stock. So my focus is all on that,
1028
00:45:45.489 --> 00:45:48.809
not necessarily on kind of what's happening in the world,
1029
00:45:48.829 --> 00:45:52.860
you know? And I also talk about the fact that, again,
1030
00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:55.559
you mentioned it earlier, TV at that time was not,
1031
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:59.219
you weren't lifting TV necessarily lifting actors out of television
1032
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:01.420
and placing them in movies necessarily i mean a few
1033
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:04.300
people were able to do that um so that really
1034
00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:06.860
wasn't even part of it it was a ride we
1035
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:10.119
were working and the fact that cooper was you know
1036
00:46:10.179 --> 00:46:14.599
he's eccentric and not you're like saying oh we need
1037
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:17.280
that guy in our show you know what i mean
1038
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:19.400
because he's going to be great you know it's like
1039
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:23.019
he existed in a weird i don't know kind of
1040
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:25.800
time warp or something you know and i and i
1041
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:28.300
was so i was like Kind of aware of that,
1042
00:46:28.820 --> 00:46:32.510
but it was very weird that the Dune thing, it's
1043
00:46:32.550 --> 00:46:35.329
like crazy. Cause you have Dune disaster, Blue Velvet.
1044
00:46:35.610 --> 00:46:35.849
Wow.
1045
00:46:35.929 --> 00:46:41.159
Interesting. Independent, like very independent film, not liked by everyone, but,
1046
00:46:41.260 --> 00:46:42.019
but certainly, you.
1047
00:46:41.980 --> 00:46:44.099
Know, appreciated. Critics loved it.
1048
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.820
Then you suddenly had Twin Peaks, which was, we love
1049
00:46:46.860 --> 00:46:49.039
this show. That was kind of for everybody, you know?
1050
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:50.940
So it's this weird kind of sequence of the things
1051
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:53.119
that I did with David. I'm not sure where I'm
1052
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:54.820
going with this story, but it's just like weird.
1053
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.909
I have a very specific question, which is there's a
1054
00:46:59.030 --> 00:47:00.730
moment that I've always wanted to ask you about. I
1055
00:47:01.030 --> 00:47:03.329
don't know the specifics, but I think Agent Cooper's talking
1056
00:47:03.349 --> 00:47:05.190
to Michael Honkeen and you guys are having a back
1057
00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:08.869
and forth. The conversation's over and you reach over and
1058
00:47:08.909 --> 00:47:13.280
touch his nose and go, boop. And I remembered being
1059
00:47:13.340 --> 00:47:17.559
in front of the television on 96th Street in New York.
1060
00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:20.760
fifth floor and seeing you just reach over and go boop.
1061
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:23.639
And then moving on with the scene. And I was like,
1062
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:28.110
what the fuck was that? But is, do you remember
1063
00:47:28.130 --> 00:47:29.969
that moment? Yes, I do. And was that a, was
1064
00:47:30.010 --> 00:47:34.309
that you, was that David? Well, I mean, I think
1065
00:47:34.369 --> 00:47:37.070
it was nothing. I think it was David in television before.
1066
00:47:37.219 --> 00:47:39.679
I don't think I had seen anything like that.
1067
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:41.300
I went over, I just looked, we were talking, Mike,
1068
00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:42.820
we were sitting next to each other and I just went,
1069
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:45.039
And I think David may have said, cause he'd be
1070
00:47:45.099 --> 00:47:47.880
right there next to the camera. This is pre monitors.
1071
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:48.260
Yeah.
1072
00:47:48.510 --> 00:47:49.030
He probably can't.
1073
00:47:49.050 --> 00:47:51.110
He said, he said, kale, tweak his nose. I'm like,
1074
00:47:52.750 --> 00:47:53.750
like that. And he's like that.
1075
00:47:54.070 --> 00:47:57.289
And, uh, yeah, we just kind of, and I, and
1076
00:47:57.670 --> 00:47:59.949
it was kind of fantastic. I mean, it was, we
1077
00:47:59.969 --> 00:48:01.500
just did it for, and it was like a really,
1078
00:48:01.780 --> 00:48:03.280
it was like an indicator of just kind of the
1079
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:05.750
affection that, that these two guys had for each other.
1080
00:48:05.789 --> 00:48:07.250
Like we could be silly a little bit and then
1081
00:48:07.269 --> 00:48:08.550
we got to get back down to business.
1082
00:48:08.590 --> 00:48:09.789
You know what I mean? But it made a really
1083
00:48:09.809 --> 00:48:11.289
nice moment. No, but to me it was spectacular because
1084
00:48:11.329 --> 00:48:13.320
Agent Cooper's so by the book, but he does like pilot.
1085
00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:15.679
But then he's also like, that's his idea of let's
1086
00:48:15.699 --> 00:48:21.800
get crazy for a second. I remember, I'll credit this
1087
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.679
again to Jim Downey, but Jim Downey had read an
1088
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:28.239
interview with David Lynch and there's the bad boy character who's.
1089
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:29.239
Oh, Dana Ashbrook.
1090
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:29.599
Yeah.
1091
00:48:29.619 --> 00:48:30.099
Bobby Briggs.
1092
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:30.739
Bobby Briggs.
1093
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:31.380
Yeah, Bobby Briggs.
1094
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:35.860
Bobby Briggs is- you know, the first one they suspect
1095
00:48:35.900 --> 00:48:38.500
he's this bad boy and he went out with Laura
1096
00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:41.420
Palmer and he's walking around in his leather jacket. Dana
1097
00:48:41.460 --> 00:48:43.400
did such a great job. Oh my God. Yeah, and
1098
00:48:43.460 --> 00:48:48.119
so you guys bring him in for questioning and this
1099
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:52.219
is genius, but this is what I heard is that
1100
00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:58.139
David Lynch said to the actor, okay, your girlfriend's dead and.
1101
00:48:59.969 --> 00:49:03.519
They're questioning you and you're like, might be a suspect
1102
00:49:03.579 --> 00:49:06.019
and that's not good. But also you're getting a lot
1103
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.659
of attention. So just keep that in mind too. Like
1104
00:49:08.699 --> 00:49:10.920
you're getting a lot of, you're getting a lot of attention.
1105
00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:15.070
And I thought, oh my God, what a great direction.
1106
00:49:15.090 --> 00:49:19.449
And that that's something real people have, which is I'm
1107
00:49:19.489 --> 00:49:22.699
in trouble. but also I'm kind of the focus of
1108
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:26.340
attention right now. So that was a very David Lynchian,
1109
00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:27.340
I think, direction.
1110
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:27.719
Yeah.
1111
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:31.059
I think Dana inhabited that so well because there's a
1112
00:49:31.059 --> 00:49:34.389
certain cockiness that he's got in that moment. He knows
1113
00:49:34.409 --> 00:49:36.889
he's innocent. But he's at the same time, he's kind of,
1114
00:49:37.190 --> 00:49:39.650
as you said, there's a swagger there that came with
1115
00:49:39.690 --> 00:49:41.889
that direction. And maybe not necessarily wouldn't have been there
1116
00:49:41.929 --> 00:49:43.409
if he hadn't said that. It would have been more
1117
00:49:43.429 --> 00:49:44.869
of like, oh my God, the deer in the headlights.
1118
00:49:45.150 --> 00:49:47.489
And in the interrogation, that scene you're talking about, I
1119
00:49:47.489 --> 00:49:50.510
remember we did a couple of takes and he was
1120
00:49:50.530 --> 00:49:54.389
getting yelled. Dana was getting, and as Cooper, I was like,
1121
00:49:54.699 --> 00:49:56.760
and let me tell you, and I started to match
1122
00:49:56.949 --> 00:50:01.219
this energy cut. And David says, we'd have a minute.
1123
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:03.300
And he says, just go a different way with that.
1124
00:50:03.500 --> 00:50:04.619
You know, just, just.
1125
00:50:05.179 --> 00:50:07.079
Bring it way down it's like he goes high you
1126
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:07.699
go low.
1127
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.119
Yeah yeah so i was like okay let me try
1128
00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:11.480
that yeah so we go back in and he does
1129
00:50:11.500 --> 00:50:13.460
that and that's where that kind of little moment where
1130
00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:15.500
he's going crazy and i just look at him and
1131
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:17.619
i have this strange little smile that comes on my
1132
00:50:17.659 --> 00:50:21.010
face which is david that's what david would do yeah
1133
00:50:21.309 --> 00:50:23.010
and uh and then i turned to mike on keen
1134
00:50:23.030 --> 00:50:24.449
and i you know like so we hold all the
1135
00:50:24.489 --> 00:50:26.289
cards right and i just said and again it was
1136
00:50:26.329 --> 00:50:29.110
lynch just planting a little seed a little perfect little
1137
00:50:29.150 --> 00:50:29.849
moment there.
1138
00:50:30.269 --> 00:50:33.710
Uh the show the show uh huge success but then
1139
00:50:34.130 --> 00:50:38.420
like all things you've you solve the murder, the fever breaks,
1140
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:42.570
the show goes into a weird, ABC starts moving it
1141
00:50:42.610 --> 00:50:46.010
into weird time slots, which to this day doesn't quite
1142
00:50:46.070 --> 00:50:49.530
make sense. You find yourself, okay, I'm back in it now,
1143
00:50:49.550 --> 00:50:52.690
I gotta go find the next thing. And I didn't
1144
00:50:52.710 --> 00:50:55.469
know this, this is another thing we have in common,
1145
00:50:55.489 --> 00:50:57.429
we were both up for the role of Dr. Derek
1146
00:50:57.469 --> 00:50:58.610
Shepherd on Grey's Anatomy.
1147
00:50:58.869 --> 00:51:01.809
Oh, excuse me. You were up for a role of
1148
00:51:01.949 --> 00:51:02.449
the Shepherd.
1149
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:05.500
Was that in the Christmas play?
1150
00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:11.139
In a show called Gray's Astronomy. It's a shepherd who
1151
00:51:11.179 --> 00:51:14.639
looks at the sky and knows where to take the sheep. No,
1152
00:51:14.659 --> 00:51:17.630
they said that you didn't have the appropriate smolder factor.
1153
00:51:17.869 --> 00:51:20.030
Yeah, well, that may have been me sort of coming
1154
00:51:20.110 --> 00:51:22.769
in and reading the scene and going, oh, this is
1155
00:51:22.809 --> 00:51:24.909
going to be like a, this is like a, you know,
1156
00:51:25.010 --> 00:51:27.389
meet cute and then gets heavy really quickly. You know,
1157
00:51:27.409 --> 00:51:29.269
that first scene we read and I was like, I
1158
00:51:29.630 --> 00:51:31.500
was like, I don't know how to do this. I
1159
00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:35.030
was just like, you know, and I gave it a
1160
00:51:35.570 --> 00:51:37.349
college try, but I said, no, I don't think it's
1161
00:51:37.369 --> 00:51:39.920
going to work. I think I'm just too weird, you know.
1162
00:51:40.309 --> 00:51:43.670
Patrick Dempsey was great. He smoldered with the best of them.
1163
00:51:43.929 --> 00:51:46.570
He still is smoldering. He still is smoldering. Yeah, that guy.
1164
00:51:46.650 --> 00:51:49.670
He's actually... Inspect if you smell him. They won't let
1165
00:51:49.690 --> 00:51:50.409
him here. Smell him.
1166
00:51:50.530 --> 00:51:51.389
Somewhere in the building.
1167
00:51:51.969 --> 00:51:56.119
Wherever he goes, he sets off smoke alarms. Rolling Stone
1168
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:58.320
had a quote about you, which is, the boy next door,
1169
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:00.280
if the boy spent a lot of time in the basement,
1170
00:52:00.619 --> 00:52:01.719
which is such a great.
1171
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:02.260
Great quote.
1172
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:06.039
Yeah, and it is this quality that you can inhabit
1173
00:52:06.099 --> 00:52:09.099
really well. And I think at a certain point, a
1174
00:52:09.139 --> 00:52:14.469
lot of your... your life last 40 years has been seeing,
1175
00:52:14.489 --> 00:52:16.969
I think we all think, well, I'm not just this
1176
00:52:17.050 --> 00:52:19.909
and I need to go do that. And then maybe again,
1177
00:52:19.949 --> 00:52:22.469
I'm talking about getting to a certain point in life,
1178
00:52:22.570 --> 00:52:25.639
but there's this contentment with, well, I do that pretty well.
1179
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:26.480
And what's wrong with that?
1180
00:52:26.500 --> 00:52:26.800
Yeah.
1181
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:29.219
As opposed to, I need to prove to people that
1182
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:32.019
I'm a ballet dancer. You're really not.
1183
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:35.300
It's a mix of that, you know, because I think,
1184
00:52:36.139 --> 00:52:38.980
I think you're right. I think there's both an acceptance of,
1185
00:52:39.449 --> 00:52:43.300
those qualities and the things that you've done that are
1186
00:52:43.739 --> 00:52:47.280
different and quirky. And what's happened is I've been going,
1187
00:52:47.300 --> 00:52:49.179
you know, I've been around doing this for so long
1188
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:53.400
that other opportunities have kind of come and I've been
1189
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:57.260
able to like do these sort of different roles. They're
1190
00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:00.570
always a little bit off, you know, I'm thinking of, um,
1191
00:53:00.820 --> 00:53:03.909
Hank McClain, of course, and in, in fallout right now.
1192
00:53:04.469 --> 00:53:07.710
So yeah, he's got, he's got stories and histories and he's,
1193
00:53:07.869 --> 00:53:12.300
he's complicated. But I really, I'm okay with that. You know,
1194
00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:14.739
after we talk about the Top Gun story where you,
1195
00:53:15.030 --> 00:53:16.969
straight ahead, American Swagger, let's go. You know, I'm like,
1196
00:53:16.989 --> 00:53:20.289
I don't really do that, you know? And so I've just,
1197
00:53:20.489 --> 00:53:22.889
as you said, I've sort of, we've kind of accepted
1198
00:53:22.909 --> 00:53:23.730
this is what we do.
1199
00:53:24.130 --> 00:53:24.309
Yeah.
1200
00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:26.230
And we do it pretty well. And we get to
1201
00:53:26.269 --> 00:53:29.650
do other things with, sort of within that same kind
1202
00:53:29.690 --> 00:53:30.250
of arena.
1203
00:53:30.449 --> 00:53:30.590
Yeah.
1204
00:53:30.610 --> 00:53:33.730
And that's really fun. You know, you keep exploring yourself
1205
00:53:33.809 --> 00:53:35.340
as an actor, which is pretty cool.
1206
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:39.829
Now, while you were writing this memoir- David Lynch dies. Yes.
1207
00:53:40.590 --> 00:53:45.670
And that just has to be an incredible blow because
1208
00:53:45.690 --> 00:53:47.550
you have this symbiosis with the man.
1209
00:53:47.690 --> 00:53:47.949
Yeah.
1210
00:53:48.289 --> 00:53:50.210
I remember the moment that I heard and I couldn't,
1211
00:53:50.690 --> 00:53:53.260
he was in, not in the best of health, but
1212
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:56.500
we had been, we'd spoken like a week earlier, I
1213
00:53:56.780 --> 00:53:58.559
think with Laura Dern, because a lot of times Laura
1214
00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:00.400
and I would go, we'd pop by and we'd sit,
1215
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:02.059
you know, on his back porch and we kind of
1216
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:04.500
just talk about stuff and reminisce. And he was always
1217
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:08.329
like Now, I've got this idea, you know, and I
1218
00:54:08.369 --> 00:54:09.769
think we can do it. You know, we were always
1219
00:54:09.809 --> 00:54:11.449
trying to figure out a way to do the next thing,
1220
00:54:11.510 --> 00:54:16.670
you know, and suddenly that just stopped. And loss is
1221
00:54:16.849 --> 00:54:21.690
weird like that because I don't know how to describe
1222
00:54:21.730 --> 00:54:24.880
it necessarily, but there's an echo. So you hear it
1223
00:54:24.940 --> 00:54:26.420
and you go, oh my God, he's gone. And he's like,
1224
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.940
but is he really? You know, and then you're like, no, no,
1225
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:33.739
he's gone. I can't, I won't hear that voice again.
1226
00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:35.610
But then I'm like, Yeah, but he's still down at
1227
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.150
his house, right? He's still puttering around down there. And
1228
00:54:38.190 --> 00:54:40.909
that sort of stayed with me for a while. And
1229
00:54:40.949 --> 00:54:43.630
I mentioned it wasn't until the house was on the market.
1230
00:54:43.849 --> 00:54:46.030
There were photographs of the house. They were selling the house,
1231
00:54:46.070 --> 00:54:49.030
David's house, his compound, actually. And I went through and
1232
00:54:49.050 --> 00:54:51.210
I was looking at it and going, David's not here.
1233
00:54:51.510 --> 00:54:54.230
David's not here. And I was like, that's what hit me.
1234
00:54:54.550 --> 00:54:58.449
Yeah. And I think someone recently said, it's the end
1235
00:54:58.469 --> 00:55:01.010
of a conversation. That's the, you know, if you really
1236
00:55:01.030 --> 00:55:02.750
want to know what loss is.
1237
00:55:02.769 --> 00:55:02.969
Mm-hmm.
1238
00:55:04.460 --> 00:55:08.500
The other person isn't there, that other voice. And that
1239
00:55:08.539 --> 00:55:10.719
hit me. I was like, well, that's exactly what it is.
1240
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:12.699
That's really, yeah, that's what it's like.
1241
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:17.289
And it's funny because now clearly all these other projects
1242
00:55:17.349 --> 00:55:22.230
came from Twin Peaks and you got to be, I mean,
1243
00:55:22.269 --> 00:55:26.650
I'm constantly watching scenes of all the different projects that
1244
00:55:26.670 --> 00:55:29.489
have had Agent Cooper in them. And I keep thinking
1245
00:55:29.530 --> 00:55:32.449
to myself, this doesn't ever have to end really. You know,
1246
00:55:32.469 --> 00:55:35.130
I don't think, I think there could be, I know
1247
00:55:35.170 --> 00:55:39.489
you participated in a Twin Peaks festival. Is that, or
1248
00:55:39.510 --> 00:55:40.170
you just went by?
1249
00:55:40.190 --> 00:55:42.239
I went, I went by, I went up and just
1250
00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:44.800
was kind of around and, and went to a screening
1251
00:55:44.820 --> 00:55:47.280
and did all sorts of this stuff. There's so many,
1252
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:51.380
the fans are so endearing, you know, and they care
1253
00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:53.710
so much. And I'm like, I gotta go. And again,
1254
00:55:53.750 --> 00:55:55.909
that's all, that's part of the journey to part of
1255
00:55:55.949 --> 00:55:58.090
my growth. I think, you know, initially I was like, oh,
1256
00:55:58.210 --> 00:55:58.989
it's fine. Twin Peaks.
1257
00:55:59.050 --> 00:55:59.250
Okay.
1258
00:55:59.289 --> 00:55:59.469
Yeah.
1259
00:55:59.510 --> 00:56:00.869
You sort of like, yeah, I did that. And now
1260
00:56:00.889 --> 00:56:02.829
I'm doing this and I'm doing this, these other things here,
1261
00:56:02.849 --> 00:56:03.030
you know?
1262
00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:03.269
Yeah.
1263
00:56:03.289 --> 00:56:03.550
Yeah.
1264
00:56:03.690 --> 00:56:06.989
And gradually you realize, no, this is actually of great value,
1265
00:56:07.010 --> 00:56:09.719
you know? And I think with that, with maturity and
1266
00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:11.780
eight and growing up a little bit, you're like, oh, I,
1267
00:56:12.219 --> 00:56:14.260
I want to embrace that more, you know, and I
1268
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:17.179
have this too, but I want to embrace that. And, and,
1269
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:20.219
and with that embrace the people that, that it really
1270
00:56:20.260 --> 00:56:22.940
has affected, you know? And that's part of what that was,
1271
00:56:23.300 --> 00:56:26.349
going up to North Bend and participating in this weekend of,
1272
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:28.179
you know, Twin Peaks festivities.
1273
00:56:28.539 --> 00:56:28.820
Yeah.
1274
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:29.619
It was really fun.
1275
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:31.469
Did they say, okay, you got to put some jet
1276
00:56:31.510 --> 00:56:33.610
black in your hair and have a cup of coffee
1277
00:56:33.630 --> 00:56:35.969
with you? Eat this pie right now.
1278
00:56:37.769 --> 00:56:40.809
To be told, I'm not a huge cherry pie fan, but.
1279
00:56:42.110 --> 00:56:42.309
What?
1280
00:56:42.750 --> 00:56:43.309
I know, I know.
1281
00:56:43.489 --> 00:56:44.110
Sacrilege.
1282
00:56:44.260 --> 00:56:49.719
Yeah, it's like Groucho Marx saying, I don't really smoke cigars. Well, you're...
1283
00:56:50.550 --> 00:56:52.949
this is a delight for me and we've just scratched
1284
00:56:52.989 --> 00:56:54.869
the surface. There's so much else we could talk about,
1285
00:56:54.909 --> 00:56:58.929
but I do encourage people. The book is really spectacular
1286
00:56:59.289 --> 00:57:01.829
and you've done a brilliant job with this.
1287
00:57:01.849 --> 00:57:02.349
Thank you, Condon.
1288
00:57:02.530 --> 00:57:07.869
Fictional Selves is the book by Kyle MacLachlan and your podcast,
1289
00:57:08.130 --> 00:57:09.190
What Are We Even Doing?
1290
00:57:09.210 --> 00:57:10.130
Yeah.
1291
00:57:10.510 --> 00:57:13.889
Is a joy as well. And I'm just, it all
1292
00:57:14.010 --> 00:57:15.820
worked out because I met you in 1989 and I
1293
00:57:15.820 --> 00:57:19.099
thought this, God, he seems like a really nice, cool guy.
1294
00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:21.440
And then here we are all these years and lifetimes
1295
00:57:21.500 --> 00:57:24.699
later of all these different things happening. And you're that guy.
1296
00:57:25.070 --> 00:57:27.869
And it's just nice. They say, don't meet your heroes. No, no, no.
1297
00:57:28.010 --> 00:57:31.170
Meet your heroes. There's a couple you shouldn't meet, but
1298
00:57:31.289 --> 00:57:34.530
you're one of the really good ones. So thanks so
1299
00:57:34.570 --> 00:57:35.349
much for being here.
1300
00:57:35.510 --> 00:57:37.710
Very nice of you to say, Conan. Thank you. That's
1301
00:57:37.750 --> 00:57:42.400
very sweet. You carry your heart. in a really beautiful
1302
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:44.940
way with all the other stuff going on. But you're brilliant.
1303
00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:49.039
You're brilliant. But deep inside here, that's the real you.
1304
00:57:49.059 --> 00:57:50.619
That's the other guy. That's not me.
1305
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:51.280
That's the other guy.
1306
00:57:55.659 --> 00:58:00.280
This is an arrow. Mmm.
1307
00:58:01.059 --> 00:58:07.059
And this is the sound of its minty bubbles conjuring
1308
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:14.969
melt in your mouth Pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
1309
00:58:15.010 --> 00:58:18.190
moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
1310
00:58:19.309 --> 00:58:21.739
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
1311
00:58:25.989 --> 00:58:29.670
What can you fit into a shoebox? Colouring pencils and copybooks?
1312
00:58:30.010 --> 00:58:31.360
A toothbrush and toothpaste?
1313
00:58:31.659 --> 00:58:32.280
A woolly hat?
1314
00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:35.579
Socks and a teddy bear? This Christmas, those simple gifts
1315
00:58:35.659 --> 00:58:37.980
can bring joy to a child affected by poverty in
1316
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:41.079
Africa or Eastern Europe. Join the Team Hope Christmas Shoebox
1317
00:58:41.119 --> 00:58:44.190
Appeal with your family, school friends or workplace and be
1318
00:58:44.230 --> 00:58:46.889
part of something incredible. For many children, this will be
1319
00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:48.710
the only gift they receive this Christmas.
1320
00:58:48.909 --> 00:58:50.929
And every item makes a real difference.
1321
00:58:51.309 --> 00:58:57.519
Make your Christmas shoebox today or donate one online at teamhope.ie.
1322
00:58:58.420 --> 00:59:05.440
Sean here just got a home energy grant from SEAI. € 8, 000
1323
00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:06.570
for wall insulation. Music to his ears. And SEAI wants
1324
00:59:06.610 --> 00:59:08.750
to give a home energy grant with your name on
1325
00:59:08.789 --> 00:59:01.469
it too. Apply for it now. Music Music Music Music.
1326
00:59:23.269 --> 00:59:27.039
We've recently dipped back into the refreshing waters of voicemails.
1327
00:59:27.179 --> 00:59:29.829
You know what? It's a new technology. I'm excited about it.
1328
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:34.239
This is people calling into us, and then we're somehow
1329
00:59:34.340 --> 00:59:36.739
able to record it and then keep the recording.
1330
00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:37.940
Oh, now I understand it.
1331
00:59:37.940 --> 00:59:39.820
I've never had it explained to me. And then we
1332
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.269
can play it back, and it's as if they're asking
1333
00:59:42.329 --> 00:59:43.590
us in real time. All right.
1334
00:59:43.769 --> 00:59:44.579
Eduardo, hit it.
1335
00:59:44.869 --> 00:59:48.530
Hey, guys. This is Zach in Fargo, North Dakota, and
1336
00:59:48.550 --> 00:59:51.989
I have a question for you. Where do you think
1337
00:59:52.050 --> 00:59:55.110
this world is going? That's it.
1338
00:59:55.210 --> 00:59:56.150
It just ends there.
1339
00:59:56.170 --> 00:59:56.389
That's it?
1340
00:59:56.449 --> 00:59:56.949
Oh, my God, Zach.
1341
00:59:57.010 --> 00:59:59.170
This is a real existential one. Can I just say
1342
00:59:59.230 --> 01:00:02.840
this sounds very much like he's in North Dakota? Yeah.
1343
01:00:02.860 --> 01:00:06.179
Because when you spend a lot of time in Fargo,
1344
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:08.539
I'm sure sometimes you look around and just think.
1345
01:00:08.739 --> 01:00:11.260
Where is this all going?
1346
01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:14.489
I'm worried about Zach. Zach, I hope you're okay.
1347
01:00:14.889 --> 01:00:17.210
And we don't have to take this into a dark place.
1348
01:00:17.250 --> 01:00:18.949
It could just mean whatever you want it to mean.
1349
01:00:18.989 --> 01:00:19.949
You're right.
1350
01:00:19.969 --> 01:00:21.599
I don't think he meant it in a dark way
1351
01:00:21.619 --> 01:00:21.940
at all.
1352
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:24.340
Maybe it's just going around the sun.
1353
01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:27.760
I think we need to do a welfare check on Zach.
1354
01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:30.139
Make sure he's okay. I wanted to.
1355
01:00:30.099 --> 01:00:32.099
Hear more of his Fargo accent.
1356
01:00:33.219 --> 01:00:33.539
Oh, yeah.
1357
01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:34.039
Just me?
1358
01:00:34.260 --> 01:00:36.929
Nobody else? Hey, Wade, this is my deal here, Wade. Yeah.
1359
01:00:37.030 --> 01:00:38.269
Hey, that's good.
1360
01:00:38.329 --> 01:00:38.650
Yeah.
1361
01:00:38.789 --> 01:00:40.590
I mean, I just am going off of Fargo.
1362
01:00:40.630 --> 01:00:42.949
The movie. Right. That's all of us. We just do that.
1363
01:00:43.590 --> 01:00:47.110
One of my favorite movies. It's amazing how many of
1364
01:00:47.170 --> 01:00:50.269
my favorite movies are Coen Brothers movies. It's absolutely kind
1365
01:00:50.309 --> 01:00:50.650
of incredible.
1366
01:00:50.670 --> 01:00:51.210
They're the best.
1367
01:00:51.909 --> 01:00:53.360
They might be the best, actually.
1368
01:00:53.380 --> 01:00:55.659
Too bad they split up, you know?
1369
01:00:55.820 --> 01:00:57.440
They're not making movies together anymore.
1370
01:00:58.380 --> 01:00:59.500
Did they? I didn't know that.
1371
01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:01.360
They don't really do movies together. They kind of do
1372
01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:03.699
their own thing now. And that's why you're not, maybe
1373
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:05.079
you're not talking about them as much.
1374
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:09.059
What the hell? I love the Coen brothers. And no,
1375
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:11.489
I'm not going to have you slam them in any form.
1376
01:01:11.510 --> 01:01:13.409
I'm not slamming them. I'm just saying. Why'd you take
1377
01:01:13.449 --> 01:01:16.769
us down this road? Zach came with this existential question
1378
01:01:16.829 --> 01:01:18.949
and you went right to, hey man, the Coen brothers
1379
01:01:18.969 --> 01:01:19.389
broke up.
1380
01:01:19.889 --> 01:01:22.500
The world is going nowhere because the Coen brothers broke up.
1381
01:01:22.530 --> 01:01:24.449
No, they didn't break up. I'm sure they'll get back
1382
01:01:24.489 --> 01:01:25.329
together again.
1383
01:01:25.530 --> 01:01:26.050
I hope so.
1384
01:01:26.230 --> 01:01:29.429
They're brothers. Brothers can't break up. Look at the Gallagher brothers.
1385
01:01:29.469 --> 01:01:30.469
Oh, they got back together.
1386
01:01:30.510 --> 01:01:31.139
They did.
1387
01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:31.739
Yeah, yeah.
1388
01:01:31.780 --> 01:01:32.679
We went to their concert.
1389
01:01:32.699 --> 01:01:33.059
We did.
1390
01:01:33.079 --> 01:01:34.019
I don't know.
1391
01:01:34.099 --> 01:01:39.110
Stunned. Stunned that you took this voicemail question and went
1392
01:01:39.329 --> 01:01:41.969
this way with it. Now we're talking about the Oasis reunion.
1393
01:01:42.590 --> 01:01:42.960
You are.
1394
01:01:44.739 --> 01:01:47.599
You're just a train wreck. That was a train wreck,
1395
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:48.039
what you did.
1396
01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:48.849
I stand by it.
1397
01:01:48.860 --> 01:01:51.659
Wait, was his question, where's the world going? I forgot
1398
01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:52.949
what his question was already.
1399
01:01:52.989 --> 01:01:55.449
Yeah, well, I don't blame you after this discourse.
1400
01:01:55.489 --> 01:01:58.090
That is the most vague question, and you can answer
1401
01:01:58.110 --> 01:02:00.289
it however you want. I chose the Gallagher brothers. How
1402
01:02:00.309 --> 01:02:01.550
would you like to do it? How would you like
1403
01:02:01.570 --> 01:02:01.849
to do it?
1404
01:02:01.989 --> 01:02:04.030
I don't know. I know that the way you did
1405
01:02:04.050 --> 01:02:06.469
it was wrong. I do know that for a fact.
1406
01:02:06.489 --> 01:02:10.309
Wrong for you. Yeah, thank you. It was weird. Terrible.
1407
01:02:10.369 --> 01:02:12.789
Here's the news flash. I'm not asking for approval.
1408
01:02:13.389 --> 01:02:15.150
Yeah, thank you. Own it.
1409
01:02:15.489 --> 01:02:15.780
Own it.
1410
01:02:15.849 --> 01:02:16.280
And you know what?
1411
01:02:16.380 --> 01:02:18.179
It's his fault for being from Fargo.
1412
01:02:18.199 --> 01:02:18.539
Right.
1413
01:02:18.559 --> 01:02:20.619
Like, how are we not supposed to talk about the
1414
01:02:20.659 --> 01:02:22.059
Coen brothers? Exactly.
1415
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:27.000
But we're, I mean, I guess Zach is just wondering
1416
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:29.639
where it's all going. And, you know, I.
1417
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:34.500
I don't know that we can avoid that question. I
1418
01:02:34.539 --> 01:02:36.699
know you're very much trying to avoid that question.
1419
01:02:36.739 --> 01:02:39.480
I don't want to talk about the real sad things anymore.
1420
01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:40.860
Why does it have to be sad?
1421
01:02:40.929 --> 01:02:41.469
Good things.
1422
01:02:41.530 --> 01:02:43.929
Yeah, there's good things. Let me hear. I'm all ears.
1423
01:02:45.769 --> 01:02:50.349
I'm a 52% optimist. I recognize all the problems that
1424
01:02:50.369 --> 01:02:52.840
we have. But as a history buff, I know that
1425
01:02:52.889 --> 01:02:56.960
we have always had problems. Always. And what I always
1426
01:02:57.039 --> 01:02:58.780
ask people is, well, why don't you tell me when
1427
01:02:58.820 --> 01:03:02.610
the good old days were? And if someone names an era,
1428
01:03:02.659 --> 01:03:04.889
I go, nope. And then you talk about all the
1429
01:03:04.909 --> 01:03:05.170
bad things.
1430
01:03:05.230 --> 01:03:05.570
I can do it.
1431
01:03:05.789 --> 01:03:08.650
Go ahead. First time the Gallagher brothers were together.
1432
01:03:08.949 --> 01:03:11.489
Oh, the 90s were pretty sweet.
1433
01:03:11.510 --> 01:03:11.949
Come on.
1434
01:03:12.130 --> 01:03:12.610
Don't look back.
1435
01:03:12.670 --> 01:03:13.289
You're the worst.
1436
01:03:13.329 --> 01:03:13.929
Wonderwall.
1437
01:03:14.449 --> 01:03:15.750
That's also when the Coen.
1438
01:03:15.469 --> 01:03:16.949
Brothers were hitting their stride.
1439
01:03:16.969 --> 01:03:17.650
Fargo.
1440
01:03:18.010 --> 01:03:18.809
Big Lebowski.
1441
01:03:19.090 --> 01:03:22.570
It was the era of the brothers. Stater Brothers was
1442
01:03:22.630 --> 01:03:23.449
at its prime.
1443
01:03:23.469 --> 01:03:29.570
Oh, Manny Moe and Jack. Come on. Okay. I'm an optimist, too.
1444
01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:30.050
I'm with you.
1445
01:03:30.460 --> 01:03:31.480
Yeah, slight optimist.
1446
01:03:31.500 --> 01:03:32.960
You have to be an optimist if you have kids.
1447
01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:33.539
But give us an answer.
1448
01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:33.630
Yes.
1449
01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:33.739
Yeah.
1450
01:03:33.780 --> 01:03:36.539
What's that? Give us an answer. Where is it going?
1451
01:03:36.579 --> 01:03:37.199
Where is the world going?
1452
01:03:37.219 --> 01:03:38.519
What do you mean where it's going? It's going where
1453
01:03:38.539 --> 01:03:40.360
it's always been going, which is a day at a
1454
01:03:40.420 --> 01:03:43.079
time we crawl our way there through the darkness. We
1455
01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:49.110
get there. But that's where we're going. And so we
1456
01:03:49.170 --> 01:03:52.869
must persevere. We will persevere because we must persevere. That
1457
01:03:52.909 --> 01:03:55.320
is my belief. And we have to we have to
1458
01:03:55.659 --> 01:03:57.699
we have a lot of problems and we need to
1459
01:03:57.739 --> 01:03:59.659
address them and figure them out. And that's what we
1460
01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:02.579
must do. So that's what we will do. I do
1461
01:04:02.659 --> 01:04:04.659
wonder if I've taken a lot of pills. You have.
1462
01:04:04.699 --> 01:04:06.019
You seem very medicated.
1463
01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:08.440
I do wonder if one day my boys or one
1464
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:10.019
of them is going to be like, Mom, I have
1465
01:04:10.059 --> 01:04:12.900
a girlfriend and it's going to be like an AI chat.
1466
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:13.500
Oh, certainly.
1467
01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:15.920
No, don't say certainly.
1468
01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:18.900
You can bet Blay has one. You know, like it's certainly,
1469
01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:22.199
it's already happening. Why is it poor Blay? I'm just kidding, Blay.
1470
01:04:22.460 --> 01:04:24.099
He's not even here to defend himself. Blay was doing
1471
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:27.300
this long before there was AI. When I first met Blay,
1472
01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:28.900
he introduced me to his girlfriend and it was a
1473
01:04:28.969 --> 01:04:31.139
Magnavox television shoved onto a mannequin.
1474
01:04:31.219 --> 01:04:33.349
No, he is a very lovely girlfriend.
1475
01:04:33.369 --> 01:04:34.329
He does have a lovely girl.
1476
01:04:34.630 --> 01:04:37.730
And he's doing his civic duty and doing jury duty
1477
01:04:37.789 --> 01:04:38.210
right now.
1478
01:04:38.449 --> 01:04:40.530
Yeah, that's why he's not here defending himself. But because
1479
01:04:40.550 --> 01:04:44.090
he's not here to defend himself, Yeah, years ago, first girlfriend,
1480
01:04:44.489 --> 01:04:45.869
mannequin with the Magnavox TV.
1481
01:04:45.809 --> 01:04:49.070
Jammed on its neck. Magnavox. Yeah.
1482
01:04:49.690 --> 01:04:50.710
I'd said it was a long time ago.
1483
01:04:50.730 --> 01:04:51.730
Yeah.
1484
01:04:52.250 --> 01:04:56.369
Listen, stay the course, Zach. Better times are coming.
1485
01:04:56.869 --> 01:05:01.429
And don't look back in anger. Oh, my God.
1486
01:05:01.940 --> 01:05:03.639
I love you doubling down on it.
1487
01:05:03.739 --> 01:05:05.900
Thank you.
1488
01:05:05.960 --> 01:05:06.539
You sound like.
1489
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:09.599
It's just making him so mad.
1490
01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:12.960
I'm slowly walking down the hall faster than a cannonball.
1491
01:05:13.340 --> 01:05:16.920
I thought it was faster than the cholesterol-lowering drug Pravacol.
1492
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.559
No, don't do your remix of Wonderwall.
1493
01:05:19.579 --> 01:05:21.159
That's what they sang on their remix. Slowly walking down
1494
01:05:21.179 --> 01:05:26.110
the hall, faster than the cholesterol-lowering drug Pravacol.
1495
01:05:27.869 --> 01:05:29.849
I like the Jake Gyllenhaal version better.
1496
01:05:29.969 --> 01:05:33.050
I know, I used to work faster than Jake Gyllenhaal.
1497
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:36.239
No one can fuck up a great song like me.
1498
01:05:36.340 --> 01:05:37.360
You are the best at it.
1499
01:05:37.619 --> 01:05:41.420
I love putting my own stupid rhymes in there. You do.
1500
01:05:41.519 --> 01:05:42.880
And that's where the world is going.
1501
01:05:42.980 --> 01:05:46.139
And that is where the world is going. Hang in there, Zach.
1502
01:05:46.260 --> 01:05:47.940
I will if you will. Be strong.
1503
01:05:50.260 --> 01:05:54.030
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian,
1504
01:05:54.260 --> 01:05:58.389
and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced
1505
01:05:58.449 --> 01:06:02.150
by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song
1506
01:06:02.190 --> 01:06:05.449
by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
1507
01:06:06.050 --> 01:06:06.929
Take it away, Jimmy.
1508
01:06:10.550 --> 01:06:13.739
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent
1509
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:17.480
producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez
1510
01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:21.519
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1511
01:06:21.539 --> 01:06:24.739
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01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.329
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01:06:27.349 --> 01:06:29.909
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01:06:30.269 --> 01:06:33.010
Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline
1515
01:06:33.050 --> 01:06:37.670
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01:06:37.710 --> 01:06:40.219
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01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:44.420
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01:06:44.500 --> 01:06:47.619
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01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:51.159
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1520
01:06:58.289 --> 01:07:02.949
This is an arrow. Mmm.
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And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
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melt in your mouth. Pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
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moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
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01:07:21.929 --> 01:07:24.409
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.
1525
01:07:29.289 --> 01:07:33.460
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01:07:33.460 --> 01:07:34.380
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01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:37.780
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01:07:37.820 --> 01:07:40.780
home energy grant with your name on it too. Apply
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