Kirsche: How To Actually Win The Culture War

Kirsche joins Based Camp for an in-depth conversation on her journey from TERA PvP gamer to one of the most influential conservative VTubers. She discusses surviving a major cancellation attempt by Vice, her deep research exposing “Bridge” (the successor to DEI initiatives), why boycotts alone aren’t enough, and how the VTuber community helped turn the cultural tide.

Malcolm and Simone Collins dive into tactics for defeating woke capture in gaming and corporations, the power of parallel institutions, AI tools for creators, building alternative economies, and why nerdy weirdos are winning the culture war. Topics include abortion radicalization stories, pronatalism, free speech, and practical ways conservatives can create better systems.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: it Hello, everyone. I am so excited to be here with you today. Today, we actually are doing a collab with Kirsche, which is so exciting, ‘cause I’ve wanted to do this one forever. It’s like everything’s coming in at once. And the context on Kirsche, if you are not familiar with who she is or her cultural relevance, because it’s m- hugely outsized, I think.

My entire life within nerdy cultural niches, we had the wokes and the proto-wokes come in, whether it was video games, whether it was, you know, cons, whether it was trading cards, whether it was y- you know, anime. They’d come in, and they would screw it all up, and they would take it over, and they’d push us out.

And every time it happened, it just felt like th- there was this endless tide, and it was gonna forever happen to everything I ever had an interest in. And then one fateful day, a sort of the [00:01:00] last wave, this happened in the VTuber community. And it happened specifically targeted at Kirsche. And when this happened, we did a number of videos on it.

And Kirsche, unlike every other person before her, h- held her ground and held it in a way where they actually holistically retreated. And they retreated to such an extent that post this, a conservative VTuber scene has begun to grow. And I mean, it was there beforehand, but now it feels much livelier and much more like a core part of the wider conservative movement, and it’s been beginning to regain crowd.

So, like, after your attempted cancellation, you then had the guy who tried to do this to the horror space in, in favor of shadows. I don’t know if you remember this whole controversy. I do. But he tried to claim the horror space, and he got absolutely eviscerated immediately. Yes. Absolutely thrown out i- i- immediately.[00:02:00]

And so her being in this, it felt very much like

Speaker: And then we’ll know how to beat them. One day it will all be over, and everyone will forget that this was the moment. This is when it turned. And it wasn’t the mighty

Daily Wire

Speaker: , it wasn’t

Some fancy

Heritage Foundation report

Speaker: There’s a

Speaker 4: Vtuber

Speaker: named

Speaker 4: Kirsche

Speaker: Do

Speaker 2: now! Yeah.

Good job,

Speaker 4: Reporter.

Speaker 3: Thank you, sir. That would be

Speaker 4: fox girl

Speaker 3: , sir.

Speaker 2: Carry on, .

Speaker: Yes, sir.

Malcolm Collins: or,

Malcolm Collins: But, but after this point while... And, and this is something w- I, I wanna talk about. While culturally we seem to be winning more, like, our ability to do something like boycott Harley Davidson or [00:03:00] Tractor Supply...

By the way, they’re super woke, Simone. I don’t know if you know this. Oh, yeah. To the extent that they’ve actually changed their policies has not been effective. But in the spaces we’ve been closer to, like the video game space, like the Ubisoft boycotts basically we learned we have to put these companies out of business.

Mm-hmm. And so I wanna talk with you about that experience, like you getting into this space before the, the big cancellation attempt How you thought about and managed that and how the culture has changed post that

Kirsche: All right. Okay. So I guess the starting point is, like, how, how did I feel during the cancellation?

No,

Malcolm Collins: no, how’d you get into VTub- Like, when you got into VTubing, did you intend to be a political Vtuber?

Kirsche: No, not really. I mean, I first got into VTubing back in, like, 2018, and I w- I wasn’t even, like, a Vtuber proper then. I was just, like, a PNGTuber. I or- originally started, like, without even a microphone.

Like, two weeks of streaming, [00:04:00] no microphone, no nothing ‘cause I had just quit my job at an insurance company after an elongated period of my anxiety being incredibly bad. And so at this point in time I was hopped up on, like, three different anxiety medications and I was just like, “Well, I don’t wanna just sit around and do nothing all day.

I feel like I should at least try to do something that could help my anxiety get better.” Well, my name is pretty well-known in the Tera community, so if I started streaming I would already have, like, a small audience of people who would be there, and then I could use that as, like, I’m gonna interact with people more frequently.

I’m gonna, you know, get a bit out of my safe bubble of, like, I only wanna do text communications. And so, like, eventually, you know, obviously I started using my microphone. I got a PNG. So, so basically- I d- got a, like, animated GIF

Malcolm Collins: How did you know the Tera community? What, what, w- w- what was your, your experience there?

Kirsche: I was one of the best PVPers on the server for many, many years. I was frequently rank one on the rank board whenever like, Fraywin Canyon would have its, like, [00:05:00] rollovers. I didn’t do threes as often, but I absolutely loved Fraywin Canyon and I loved doing like, guild PVP and whatnot. Like, it, it was really weird, like, coming into a streamer scene and seeing people like Lakari, who I had healed for, like, years before, already being huge streamers, right?

I was just like, “What the heck?” Zenosas Vex, I, I played with him in, like, Final Fantasy XIV raiding as well. So, like, to see all these people who, like, had been in, like, raid groups or PVP groups before in different games with me, I was like, “Oh. I was streaming. Streaming’s got pretty robust, is it not?”

So it

Malcolm Collins: was like a- ‘Cause, like,

Kirsche: previously I never paid attention to it ... social thing.

Malcolm Collins: It, it was like an alternative to what people used to do. Like, I’m, I’m gonna get out there and, and build a social life. It was like-

Kirsche: Yeah ...

Malcolm Collins: that... Okay, so that’s fascinating. Okay, so now describe how you go from there to, like, what radicali- what, what got you on the I’m actually gonna start talking, because we didn’t start talking about politics either.

We, we had no interest in that to start. A- in fact, we started with pretty progressive political beliefs, Ooh ... getting into the space and everything. So what w- what hap- [00:06:00] was it that you were a conservative during this time or you had conservative-like beliefs, or were these beliefs that you developed over time in the space, or you just felt more comfortable talking about over time?

Kirsche: I would say I was probably already on the conservative path at this point. For the 2016 election I had been registered independent basically since I could register to vote, and for the 2016 election I changed my registration from independent to Republican so that I could vote for Trump in the primary And I, I guess I had been talking about, like, the nonsense with transgender targeting children probably since about 2011, 2012 or so.

Oh, that was impossible back then. Like, just in my personal life. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that was like- And I- ... you’d get canceled, fired for talking about that- Yeah ... like, 2011.

Kirsche: Yeah. And, and I, I’d post about it, like, on my Facebook, you know, which I didn’t have many p- friends on Facebook, ‘cause I’m not a huge social media person.

So I would just, like, post about it occasionally there. And so when I started streaming when my friend who would come and voice chat with me, my [00:07:00] old head moderator, Tangerine, he he would get our groups together. So he would either put us in Duty Finder and we would wait for ages, or he would, like, put it up in an LFG and we’d get other human beings.

While he was doing that, I would just read articles on stream. And so sometimes I would get through, like, a paragraph. Sometimes I’d get through, like, half of it. Sometimes I would have enough time to finish it. But it was like I would read that in between, like, waiting for dungeons because I just, I enjoyed reading the news in my off time.

Mm-hmm. And I didn’t have anybody in, like, real life to talk about the news with because they were all, like, either apolitical or like, “Yeah, I just don’t care. I just... It doesn’t matter to me.” So it was nice to like, you know, talk to this few people in my audience then who were also interested, like, in what was going on politically in America.

And it kind of shifted once a lot more of, I guess, leftist policy kind of stuff started being her- heralded in the VTuber community as apolitical. And so it’s like you could see all of the leftist rot coming in like it did to comics, like it did to video games- Yeah ... like it did to other things, and everyone being like, [00:08:00] “Well, that’s not political, but Kirsche is political.”

And it’s like, you know what? Let’s talk politics even more now because I don’t want what happened to all of my other favorite things to happen to VTubing.

Malcolm Collins: That’s fascinating. So, one story I’ve heard from some other VTubers we’ve talked to about this is there was like, there was a big shift after the release of the Harry Potter game.

Mm-hmm. Because a bunch of people hadn’t realized how captured the space had become-

Kirsche: Yeah ...

Malcolm Collins: until they just tried to stream what they thought of as a fairly innocuous game. But it sounds like you broke the seal even before that based on, and I think a lot of people don’t realize this about a part of American culture because I, because I talk about this with, with very specific groups often, where I’m like, when you are calling out a group for something that feels very justified to you and then they start yelling at you saying, “Oh, that’s, you know, anti-Mormon or anti-Jewish or anti,” you know, whatever.

And I’m like, no, this is like a reasonable thing. I think a lot of just like a culturally American thing to do is to double down on it. Be like, you [00:09:00] can’t police me for something that’s a perfectly reasonable thing to say. I’m gonna double down because you attempted to do that. And that’s sort of what drove you into this.

Kirsche: Yeah. And, and it’s like, and people, people like to be like VTuber purists, and I think that’s fine, where they’re just like VTubers will only play games, they’ll only do like cute girl doing cute things, like idle activities. And I think it’s fine to be a VTubing purist. Obviously, I’m very much outside of the typical idle culture since I do talk politics.

Yeah. And it’s like I feel like once, once we start making more gains and we stop having like the colonization of our spaces, then I can kind of finally be like, okay, I still enjoy talking politics, but I can actually go back to playing more games like I used to instead of having to talk about politics all the time

Malcolm Collins: Well, you do a very good job, and for people who haven’t watched her stuff, I often describe her as the top of the funnel for our sort of intellectual ecosystem.

Which is to say you often do the original research, which then drips out of all the various taps [00:10:00] who watch all of whatever’s trending right now. ?

Speaker 5: Federal scientists are working around the clock to probe its secrets. Once we understand the bug, we will defeat

it

Malcolm Collins: When did you begin to get into the deep research? ‘Cause that must take a ton of time ...

Kirsche: for the Bridge stuff specifically, man, I, I don’t have a ton of time to watch content creators like I used to, just ‘cause I’m a creator myself now.

Yeah But I used to watch a ton of videos and stuff from, like, ItsAGundam and Tim Pool and The Quartering. Yeah. And I originally even started watching Tim Pool way back in the day because he was, he was, like, firmly on the left. And I was like- Yeah ... this is a guy that, like, has some things in common with me, but I disagree with a lot of other things.

Let’s watch him, because that’s a great way to expose myself to, you know, the other side of ideas, and sort of solidify how I feel based on his arguments, you know? So it was, it was really nice. And then over time, obviously, he became more center and left a lot [00:11:00] of the left-leaning stuff behind. But The Quartering had made a video, and he had a sponsor, and I can’t even remember what the sponsor was for, but it basically, like, told you how woke a, a, a company was-

by using it. So you could, like, scan an item and it would give you, like, a woke score for the company. And they were like, “Here’s the top 10 most woke companies of, like, 2023,” I think it was or something. And Campbell’s was in there, and I was like, “The soup company? I like their soup. I li- I like their chicken pot pie pub style soup.

That’s good.” And I hadn’t, I’d never heard of anything about Campbell’s, even in all of my, like, going through other basic DEI stuff. Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Kirsche: And I, I looked them up, and one of the first things I found was that Campbell’s was spearhead funding a project called Bridge. And I was like, “Oh. Well, what’s Bridge?”

And I found out that there are, like, two different Bridges. There’s one set up by Social Impact, and then there’s the one that I’ve been digging into by Sharyl Attkisson. And I thought at first when I first found them that they had something to do with each other, because Social Impact was [00:12:00] called, like, Bridge Project 2.0, and Sharyl Attkisson had referred to her project as, like, a, a 2.0 of DEI before.

So I was like, “Maybe,” but I couldn’t find any solid connections between those two specifically.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Kirsche: But going through Sharyl Attkisson’s was like- Wow. And I, I literally could only contribute or attribute it to having watched that, the quartering video. If I’d never watched that, I would have never looked into Campbell’s.

Simone Collins: Wait, what, what does, what does Bridge do? I’m out of the loop.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Simone, Simone’s not in this, this conspiracy also. I didn’t

Simone Collins: know.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So John, shock her in our audience.

Simone Collins: Please.

Kirsche: So a lot of people when I try bringing up Bridge, they’re just like, “Oh, this is just another renaming of DEI, like Jedi or whatever.”

And it’s like, well, no, it’s not. Bridge is a company that is working with tons of other very, very strong, huge corporations. And they have a ton of these corporations who are signed on to like their board of directors or their other like actual, like willing to be publicly associated with Bridge page.

Simone Collins: Huh.

Kirsche: But a lot of companies who aren’t even on Bridge, they follow the [00:13:00] same exact trajectory of hiding the DEI. And there was an interview with a, a lady who runs a podcast called like DEI After Five, and she was talking to another DEI acolyte saying that a lot of people don’t realize how good DEI is for them.

And so you have to hide the DEI vegetables- Oh my God ... in order to get people to eat them to realize that they’re good for them. It’s like the entire purpose for like for years before we started seeing it, Bridge was informing companies on how to obscure DEI, how to make it less public. The entire point of having like a DEI team after 2020 was to obviously showcase like, “Hey, we’re woke.

We’re doing the Marxist thing.”

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Kirsche: Bridge comes in and says, “This is gonna be a problem. You need to dissolve those DEI teams, and you need to embed those DEI acolytes in other parts of the company.” Whoa. Because if people see the like DEI outright, that’s gonna be an attackable vector. That’s gonna be a way to get yourself in legal trouble for discrimination.

100%.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Kirsche: whoa.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Whoa. Like [00:14:00] first, so there’s this implicit recognition that it is discrimination, and it is gonna get caught, and it is gonna get stopped, but then that’s so interesting ‘cause I listen to still so many leftist outlets. And of course- Mm-hmm ... there’s always the, I mean, just as there were accusations of greenwashing when environmentalism was at its zenith, then there’s the accusations

Malcolm Collins: of like- I, I’m so frustrated

Simone Collins: DEI

Malcolm Collins: washing My, my brother retired from Doge recently, and that I, I, I should have sent him this, been like, “Hey, just tear-” Oh ... “tear into this.”

Simone Collins: Doge did not go far enough. It did not. Oh my gosh. That is insane.

Malcolm Collins: But so one of the things that you frequently talk about, and I think it’s an interesting meta conversation to have.

Actually, no, we’re gonna wait. I’m gonna be disciplined. Before we get into this- Discipline ... I do wanna get the full history. Oh, yes ... of how, how... Okay, so you began going into the Bridge stuff, w- you, so you got into the Bridge stuff before the Anna Vale thing?

Kirsche: Yeah. That was, I started the Bridge like research, I wanna say the end of 2023, and then my first posts about it were beginning of 2024 [00:15:00]

Malcolm Collins: Wow.

Okay, so that’s when you begin to get into the, the sort of intellectual deep dive. And she does this not just with research on companies, which you do a lot of, of, of great stuff on, but also research on, like if you wanna know about like Joe Money, like go watch her episode about that, right? Like- Yeah

she’ll go, we’ll do an hour long episode. You’ll have like three hours going into it, right? Oh my gosh. Like really deep stuff.

Kirsche: And I, I super appreciate my audience as well, because it’s like when I do this Bridge deep dive stuff and I, I wanna like show what I’m looking at so nobody can be like, “Oh, she’s just making it up,” it’s like, no, you can see how I found it while I’m live.

Hmm. But it, it is a lot of corpo speak. It is a lot of like dry, “Hey, this is really good information. They’re telling us what they’re gonna do. They’re telling us how they’re going to subvert us,” but it’s very dry, very boring language

Malcolm Collins: Wow. Wow. This, and then this is when, So, so in this part of the timeline, now we’re at the Anna- and the Anna Valen thing was a complete sea change for a lot of people, one, because I think it validated the VTube community for the wider [00:16:00] conservative movement that before it was unsure, like Fox Girl, right?

Like, “What? Ugh, I don’t know. That looks weird. That’s like a furry- Yeah ... thing or something,” right? You know? And we see the outlets that were used to sort of affirming, “Oh, you can trust this,” because they’re mad at it, and then all of a sudden I think a bunch of people were like, “Oh, okay. Okay. I’ll, I’ll take a, I’ll take a look at this.”

Because the story did so well. I, I don’t know if, if y- so on our video on this, I don’t know if you ever, have you ever dove over Anna Valen’s personal diaries?

Kirsche: I don’t know what the personal diaries are, but yeah. We, we found quite a bit on their degenerate interests, I guess you could say.

Malcolm Collins: They’re, they’re really sad. Like, basically- ... their, their life falls apart. That’s our episode where we, we call them a cenobite. I don’t know if you know cenobites from Hellraiser.

Kirsche: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They’re like the life of a cenobite. This is what happens.

Kirsche: That’s a, that’s a good word to use.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We, we, we, we had, like, AI videos where we have, like, cenobites doing book readings with kids and, like-

“Why, why are you having trouble with this?” You know, like, chittering [00:17:00] their teeth. Ah. Yeah, right.

Simone Collins: But,

Malcolm Collins: Then, then post this a really interesting thing happened which was in a huge part because of the, the Vtuber community. W- we go into this deeper in some other episodes, but the Vtuber community is intrinsically more nerdy than other parts of the right.

Like Tim Pool, I, I used to be a big Tim Pool fan myself. I, I don’t find his new stuff as interesting as his older stuff, but he you know, he’s still, like, a n- a normal not nerd guy, right? Yeah. But the Vtuber community, almost intrinsic in its identity, is not gonna crash out on anime, like Matt Walsh or something like that.

Yeah. It’s not gonna crash out on girls in bikinis.

Kirsche: Michael Knowles interviewed a furry recently, so it’s not yet over for me. Maybe I should reach out again

Simone Collins: as well.

Malcolm Collins: Wait. Who, who interviewed a furry?

Kirsche: Michael Knowles. Michael Knowles. He’s part of the- Oh, what furry

Simone Collins: did he interview?

Kirsche: I have no idea. I just saw some-

some video of him on Twitter with, like, a guy in a fur suit in an interview setting, and I was like, “What the hell?”

Simone Collins: [00:18:00] Glass ceilings broken.

Malcolm Collins: Cra- crazy lore on us. We were supposed to be on the last episode of Tucker Carlson. Oh,

Kirsche: wow ...

Malcolm Collins: but he was canceled. Yeah, his booking team and everything. That’s crazy.

We set up a date and everything like that, and then he got canceled. F*****g S- so angry about that. I mean, I wouldn’t wanna be on Tucker Carlson now. I wouldn’t care as much, but I mean, I still would. He’s big enough, I still would.

Simone Collins: Yes, you would. Come on. Yeah.

Kirsche: I have no idea what happened to Tucker Carlson.

I just know that I like his soundbite of, like, “Y- you’ve been a bad girl, and you’re gonna get a vigorous spanking.” What? Why did you say that? Why did you say that? Oh,

Malcolm Collins: we gotta, we

Kirsche: gotta

Malcolm Collins: drop you in on our conspiracies here. So this is one of our biggest conspiracies. It is and I, I don’t know, like, I say it as a joke, but, like, also I wouldn’t put it past him.

It’s that whenever somebody starts being mildly critical of Israel, Mossad poisons them so they go crazy. And then, like, three years later, they’re, like, gibbering insanity. This happened to Tucker Carlson. This happened to Candace Owens. This happened to Nick Fuentes. Like, they all start just m- being mildly critical.

Three years later, crazy.

Kirsche: So it’s like this is the prototype [00:19:00] of the mind control chip, but if you have it in you for too long you just go crazy?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah, oh yeah, that, that’s probably it. Oh, like in The Fall Out where they, they turn it on too much and their heads explode.

Kirsche: Yeah, the technology just isn’t there yet.

They only get a good couple of years.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I know we’re laughing at this, but it did turn out that the Southern Poverty Law Center was the KKK’s major donor. I

Kirsche: mean- So like- It was crazy to find out ...

Malcolm Collins: yeah. They definitely-

Kirsche: There’s so little right-wing extremism, the left has to fund it.

Simone Collins: Yep.

Malcolm Collins: ‘Cause there’s just no- Someone’s gotta do it

really any extremists anymore. There’s no- Yeah. But it ended up pushing this sort of like nerd version of right-wing culture, which I think has, has done a lot to create this sense of community. And it’s one of the things that we’ve noticed as well, where when we started as like right-wing content creators and actually I’d be interested in your thoughts on this all of a sudden because of the VTuber community, we’ve gotten into like this community where like we interact with other people a lot more, which didn’t happen in our early days.

But I guess you never were in that, right? Like, you [00:20:00] always have been interacting with people. Or did it like feel to you like this wider fringe group began to appear all of a sudden? Or

Kirsche: was that only true of me? It definitely, it definitely began to feel like a wider fringe group began to appear. I always kinda kept to myself.

Like, there were only like a few handful of people that I would collab with, especially regularly. I just like, I don’t know, didn’t, didn’t really like reaching out to people too often, and especially once I started going in a more political direction. I was just like-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah ...

Kirsche: well, a lot of people just wanna, you know, play games and, and do, do normal stuff, and I don’t wanna have like the effect of, well, their audience is gonna revolt and cause issues for them.

And so like I you- it’s just not, it s- it sounds like a headache, right? Yeah. So I just, I just didn’t do that all that much. And it’s also interesting, I agree with you definitely that the, the Vice situation blew things too outside of the VTuber sphere because in 2024 I was supposed to be on a panel at OffKai, and I got told that [00:21:00] I can’t be on panels because I make volunteers feel unsafe.

And they showed me a handful of tweets like making a joke about Sam Hyde entering a woman’s weightlifting competition or explaining the difference between the LGBTQ extra long acronym between Canada and America, ‘cause we have two different really long acronyms. And apparently me explaining that to people is problematic.

And also like me telling Tim Poole that he was wrong about the Charlemagne clip when, when he was saying Charlemagne wants DEI gone. It’s like, that’s not what he said, Tim. Right, they had, they had a handful of like posts and clips, like my, my pronouns on Discord being burger queen. Mm-hmm. They’re like, “This is why you make people feel unsafe.”

Malcolm Collins: And this is why they feel unsafe. Yeah. No, I mean, these are the tactics they use to control organizations, right? Like-

Kirsche: Yeah. And I mean, I- ... I’ve shown proof of, of like OffKai not only playing these kind of political games where they’re like, “You don’t believe in the things we do, you can’t have a panel here, but we’re gonna have identity politics panel about like being Black and Vtubing.”

Malcolm Collins: Oh my

Kirsche: God. “And we’re gonna actively sabotage people like in Phase Connect on their, on their stage [00:22:00] debuts.” And it’s like, no, people were just like, “Well, Kirsa should have just kept her mouth shut. Kirsa shouldn’t have caused any of this drama. Kirsa shouldn’t have said anything.” Right? Like, this is causing a huge issue for something that like everyone likes going to and it’s like, why do you wanna give money to people that hate you?

Like, yeah, you wanna support your Oshi, yeah, you wanna do things, but shouldn’t you demand like a change in the venue, the people who run the venue? Mm. Because they clearly dislike you. Why would you give them money?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Well, I wanna, I wanna I’m gonna say this for the end, the, the, the, the going into how we actually fight and win-

Simone Collins: Mm

Malcolm Collins: and where we fought and then not won, and the tactics that we use and the tactics that they use at work. But one interesting tidbit that I thought you’d find fun remember how I said we started this podcast much more progressive? One of the first guests we had on this podcast, I, I doubt you’d be surpri- you, you’d ever be on the same podcast as this person, but was Aella.

Oh,

Kirsche: the f*****g sex lady.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. We had

Kirsche: a- Oh my God ...

Malcolm Collins: an early podcast with her on how to do a consensual non-consent orgy

Kirsche: Didn’t [00:23:00] they just have a tweet recently where, like, somebody got pregnant at a consensual non-consent orgy? Okay, so, yeah, Romy- Like, I

Simone Collins: don’t- Romy- Yeah ... who helped organize her gang bang birthday met her now f- I think future husband also father of her first kid as a fluffer at the p- at the party. And they

Kirsche: moved on to- That is a story you literally cannot tell people.

That is so disgusting.

Simone Collins: Romy, no, in the Bay Area, in the Bay Area, I, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. In the Bay Area,

Malcolm Collins: that’s romantic.

Simone Collins: It is, it is so normative. But- Like, I- you just think that BDSM equipment is part of people’s everyday furniture, and I’m not kidding about that. Like, it’s just- She grew up in San

Malcolm Collins: Francisco, so

Kirsche: yeah.

Yeah, but, like, imagine their kid being like, “Oh, you were the f*****g orgy baby. Do you even know who your real dad is?”

Malcolm Collins: Hold on, we gotta the, the, the funnier thing about all of this is in a recent episode of our show, Romy, the girl who you’re talking about, who met the father of her child at a gang bang, wrote a piece against abortion that radicalized my [00:24:00] wife, Simone, against early stage abortion, like, last week.

Kirsche: That is crazy.

Simone Collins: I was previously against, like, after week 12. So basically when you develop neural tissue and you’re capable of feeling pain. Yeah. Like, no, we’re not doing this. Then it’s about a conversation about euthanasia if, like, you’re gonna die painfully anyway. But, like, before that, whatever, who cares?

I th- I didn’t have any understanding that there was anything wrong with misoprostol or anything like that. And then she writes this incredibly articulate Substack about her experience trying, like, going through a chemical abortion, early stage abortion, and it’s so horrifying. And she develops- It, it, probably, like, postpartum psychosis. Oh, wow. And it’s horrifying. And then she, like, when she talks about it with other people, other women, ‘cause of course this happens a lot in the Bay Area. Like my mother didn’t think that she’d be able to get pregnant around the time she was trying to have me because she had had abortions and they had, I think, been complicated and other things like that.

So I[00:25:00]

I- apparently a lot of women were like, “Oh yeah, I’ve had that terrible, harrowing experience as well trying to, like, get a kind of- When you

Malcolm Collins: talk about harrowing, the piece includes eating babies. If, if we just wanna talk about like- What?

Simone Collins: No, well, not eating bab- Like, a- another woman had passed her, her baby, like, after taking it, like a- after taking misoprostol, and passed the baby in, like, the, the like a dive bar bathroom.

And was like, “There it is.” And then she’s just like, “Well, I have to eat it now.” And she- No you don’t. What the f**k? But like, Rosie’s like, “I completely understand.” And, like, unfortunately I’m so ... I get it too. I’m like, yeah, I ... Like, where are you gonna put it, in the toilet? Like, you have to reintegrate it.

I don’t know. But, like, it’s so heartbreaking and, like, when you actually think about, like, even though this is a very early life, it’s still a life, and it’s still this thing that you’re destroying. And it’s-

Malcolm Collins: Talk about radicalizing. You should read the piece, by the way. It’s radicalizing. You should read it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s- Can I, can

Kirsche: I- Like, I think, I think my, like, least conservative opinion is I’m still on the, like- it, sa- safe, [00:26:00] rare, whatever the f**k it was. Like, or the original reason- Yeah ... for abortion. It’s, like, very early on, very rare, in, like, certain circumstances, like incest, rape. Like, I’m, I’m okay with those kinds of things.

Like, in the case of motherless- That’s how I feel ... the baby is not viable, right? Like, it’s, it’s not- Yes ... going to survive to term.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Kirsche: That makes sense to me. Mm-hmm. But, like, if, if I was in a position where I was getting a chemical abortion, which is obviously, like, you don’t have to go into the doctor for that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Kirsche: I’m not gonna go out to, like, dive bars or other... I’m like, “I’m gonna stay home as much as possible,” right? ‘Cause, like, why the, why the f**k would I take that risk? Yeah. That’s insane to me.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The,

Malcolm Collins: the, the piece starts with a, an abortion party, right? Just to sort of highlight how little she thought of this at the beginning, but I think it shows, like, people are getting radicalized.

Like- Yeah ... like, even the people you wouldn’t expect.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Kirsche: Yeah, there shouldn’t ever be something called an abortion party. What the f**k is wrong with people? Holy Christ.

Malcolm Collins: Oh.

Simone Collins: And [00:27:00] yeah, I mean, it’s, we’re getting to this point where I think people are now, like, ironically, even if they’re really in far progressive culture, making fun of it from within it like, sort of realizing how sick it is, but then not fully internalizing that until they come face to face with it in some personal way.

And then they’re like, “Oh, wait this really isn’t working out.” And hopefully that will happen before too much damage is done to, to more of society, but we’ll see.

Malcolm Collins: Society’s been pretty damaged, Simone.

Kirsche: Yeah. Yeah, I’m gonna have to agree with that one.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, so, the, the, the direction I wanna go with this is now let’s talk about, like, tactics.

So one of the things that you keep putting, pointing out is that we have these warriors out, like Robbie Starbucks, right? Who will go out and do a piece on a company and be like, “Ah, you see, I exposed them for being woke.” And then a bunch of newspaper articles will come out saying they’re, they said they won’t be woke anymore, and, and they don’t even say that.

And then people on the right just, like, believe it, right? Yeah. And everything goes back to normal, largely speaking. And the policies don’t change. Because once you, you get these [00:28:00] people into companies, it’s very, very hard to cut them out. And in fact, there is only one instance I am aware of, of them being effectively cut out and that was the Twitter acquisition.

Yep. And that required a, what was it? Like 89% reduction in staff.

Kirsche: Yeah, it was a huge reduction, and that, that is the only way to cut them out, is to fire them. Because again, Bridge has been informing companies, like, this should not be a siloed approach. You cannot have DEI just in your marketing or just in your HR team.

Any kind of, like, DEI consultants or DEI teams within your company need to be dissolved, for one, to protect your company from lawsuits against conservative activists like America First Legal. Yeah. And two, because this needs to be a company whole approach. This needs to be completely holistic. All of your employees need to be on board with the DEI work.

And eventually they will just naturally take it home and bring it to their communities and bring it to their dinner tables. This is, this is the ultimate goal. And so whenever these like DEI teams are being dissolved and Robbie [00:29:00] Starbuck was like, “Yeah, we’re winning. We did this.” Even in their press releases they’re like, “We are committed to diversity, equity, and inclusion.”

And it’s like, why can’t anybody read? Just, just like I’m not a genius here, I just have eyeballs. They barely work and I can still read. Like,

Malcolm Collins: So, so let’s, let’s, think through. So the, and I had mentioned before we started recording, like the one instance where like we’ve really successfully won against DEI is in the video games industry.

And that is not, a- and, and we need to talk about like how radical some of these win cases were. We had video games that people were spending like $400 million on that had like a top player count of like a few hundred people.

Kirsche: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Or like 20 people pl- playing a couple weeks post-launch. And this didn’t happen once.

This happened like, it’s still happening today. Like this has been happening for years, it’s still happening today, and it’s like the entire industry. And I think that what I take away [00:30:00] from what happened to the video game industry is boycotts alone will never convince a company that’s infected with DEI to remove the DEI.

Kirsche: Yeah. I-

Malcolm Collins: if, if you couldn’t, I mean, keep in mind when L- Ubisoft like fails, that’s like real people losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Mm-hmm. Right? Like this isn’t like a small thing. When these giant Sony games fail, this is like real hu- And the, even they can’t wake up enough. And so let’s try to think through, why can’t they wake up enough?

Because the people at the very, very top, I don’t feel that they’re actually... I think they think going after DEI, “Well, what if somebody says I’m a racist?” And, and being called a racist in today’s soci- even still, even after all the work we’ve done is still this absolutely toxic thing, when it, when it’s like, even when it’s like not true, right?

That can get you fired, that can lose you LPs. I mean, that happened with us. We were in the private equity space, right? Like [00:31:00] that’s Simone and my background in this sort of thing. We can’t get hired at a major mi- private equity firm now. So it’s wielding that against... What are, what are your thoughts?

I, I’d love to hear your thoughts before I ramble more.

Kirsche: I think that a lot of it is the people in charge of these companies, they understand the maliciousness in their lies, but they are people who believe like once the cultural transformation takes place, we will be positioned in part of the like elite class.

We’re not gonna be like the plebs down there on the bottom. We’ll be in a good position because we have ownership of these companies. People will want us to promote their messages. We’re gonna be part of the ruling class. And then all of the little people who work on the video games who are like, “Yes, DEI is necessary.

You just hate games with women and Black people in them,” they’re like the true believer useful idiot types where they actually believe that they’re doing something good that’s going to have a good effect and is going to help them reach the like utopia that they’re dreaming of in this regard. And so, like, one thing I’ve always been saying ever since I discovered [00:32:00] Bridge was that they are basically foregoing short-term profit for long-term cultural dominance.

So- Still, yeah ... even though we see all of these, all these games and companies losing money, and it’s great, and it’s a win, and I love to see it, definitely keep voting with your wallet, they’ve planned for this. They, they know that they’re going to be losing money because the modern audience doesn’t exist yet.

The modern audience is what they’re striving to create. By transforming all these IPs into something horrendous with Marxism and all this DEI nonsense, the younger generations will mostly have the exposure to these remakes, to these retellings, and to these other stories that are being made right now that we all make fun of and don’t buy.

And that is where the problem lies. Yes, some of us will go to libraries. Some of us have our own, like, VHS or DVD collections. Some of us are smart enough to be like, “We don’t wanna show our children that. We’re gonna only show them the original IPs.” That... You have to think like the average normie. The average normie- Yeah

isn’t gonna be hunting down the classics. They’re gonna be showing their kids whatever [00:33:00] slop exists, which is why we have an entire generation of iPad children in the first place, because that made it much easier to just offload your child to TV.

Malcolm Collins: And so it’s very- Can you imagine how fucked we would be if they were actually competent?

Like-

Kirsche: Yes ...

Malcolm Collins: if, if they could actually make good games or tell good stories, right? Like, we, we actually have an episode on this called the, The Wachowski Effect, which is why do trans people’s ability to tell good stories seem to ch- like, just tank after they transition?

Kirsche: That’s a great question ...

Malcolm Collins: because, like, Dragon Age: Veilguard, the writers for it were the same writers as Mass Effect 2.

Mass Effect 2 was awesome. Wachowsk- the, the Veilguard was terrible, you know? Mm-hmm. And w- I mean, we... It, it could be any number of things. We, we go over a few hypotheses in this. But yeah, we’ve... The, the... And I think this is a core to our eventual victory, is that there... It turns out they’re, like, really bad at their jobs.

Like, once they stuff these companies with DEI people, they are comically inept. M- I mean, we’ve seen this from the [00:34:00] games that they’re making and stuff like that. These are not particularly impressive games. And look at, like, Har- Harley Davidson. What innovation has Harley Davidson made since it, since it w- w- what, what new interesting thing?

What has Campbell’s done? What has... They, they win by capturing institutions, and we can only subvert them by creating counter institutions that are strictly better than the captured institutions. Mm. And I think that this is partially why we have this huge freak-out around AI because AI is allowing for that.

You know, if you look at something like The Skybrow Cinematic Universe. Like, in terms of like the music I listen to on a day-to-day basis, you know, it, it, it includes something like Skybrows or Holy Ball or, you know, any of the, the creators that are directly downstream of our ecosystem. Because the songs that they’re creating are as good as any other song I’m getting out there right now.

And I think with AI in programming hopefully we can see, and I’d really [00:35:00] like to see this in our space, it’s something I’m beginning to work on, is people in our space making video games. And then eventually hopefully we can move to making products. Like, Leaflet had to move to making her own plushies and making plushies for other VTubers because the plushie company wouldn’t work with her because she’s a conservative.

What, what are your

Kirsche: thoughts? I, I would also, I would also say, like, M-Make- Makeship dropping conservative creators was really interesting to me, and throughout my cancellation campaign I was, I was talking to, like, YouTube’s people. They were completely fine working with me again. I just did another plush with them.

So like there are still companies that are like, “You know, we don’t care about the cancel mob. We’re, we’re going to work with people that we think are decent people

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. But does that not, I mean, do you... O- okay, so a, a side question before this because there was something you said at the beginning that I was a little confused by.

Do you think the people who actually run these large companies, not the people who run, like, the DEI firms, like Bridge and stuff like that, but the large companies, are they actually committed to the DEI mission, or are they just not thinking? Are they just [00:36:00] sort of like the scare tactics are working against them?

Kirsche: I, I think it’s probably a little bit of both. Depend- it depends on the company, but some of them definitely will have the, like, CEOs who are like, “Yeah, this is all b******t, but I’m gonna push it anyways because it will position me as, you know, a, a person in the ruling class rather than to be ruled over like the other little pleb useful idiots.”

And then there’s also gonna be the people who are like, “Well, I’m terrified of people making a stink, so we should just capitulate to them.” And when, when you encounter one of those, like, “We’re terrified of them making a stink,” you just have to make sure that the counter stink is worse than the initial cancel stink, right?

If companies are more afraid of the backlash that they will get from cutting creators or cutting people from a regular job for just no f*****g reason because everyone’s like, “I hate them. They’re a big meanie pooh-head.” Yeah. As long as companies fear the result that happens after that, then they’ll stop doing it.

At least the ones that are just afraid of that cancel mob anyway.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, we, we did see [00:37:00] a change in company policy if we talk about the victories we’ve had around overly woke advertising after the Dylan Mulvaney thing. Yeah. Like, I have not seen things that bad in advertising since then, but they’re still within the company.

They’re still preventing who can be hired.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Right? Like, the statistic that came out about the gaming industry, what was it? There, there was, like 45% of, like, new hires in the gaming space over the last year were LGBT. That’s crazy. It’s like that’s, you know, active and aggressive discrimination, right?

You know? Yeah. And w- I mean, once you get that in there, you can’t fight back without creating lateral institutions. Now you’ve mentioned still wanting to work with people if they just cancel s- like, have you thought about what... Yeah, what’s y- what’s your battle plan? You’re, you’re the chief here.

You’ve been at this for longer. You’ve y- you’ve been doing this. What’s, what’s the battle plan here? How do we actually win?

Kirsche: That, that is a great question. In my opinion, what needs to happen in order to get the DEI rot out of companies is either you starve [00:38:00] them for money for so long, like Ubisoft, that they just have to fire everyone and they end up closing down, which, I mean, they haven’t yet, but they might be.

And other than that, it, it’s just like you have to make sure everyone gets fired who’s involved in pushing DEI stuff. And that should be easy to tell based on what their roles used to be at the company, what they did in their positions, the kind of materials they would push, right? Like, you just have to make sure those people cannot be there.

And that’s why, like, colleges, when colleges would be like, “Oh, we’re getting rid of our DEI department,” and then they would just reassign their, like, DEI people to other places. I’m like, they didn’t do anything. They did what Bridge told them to do. They, they reassigned people to embed them elsewhere so it’s less noticeable what they’re doing.

The DEI is still there, and you can’t believe them that it’s not there until they fire these people

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, so how best to starve them? So one of the things that, that I’m seeing so this is a trend we’ve noted among conservative women in our circles. And this happened [00:39:00] after we learned that Leaflet buys from the same f- clothing manufacturer Simone does which is we’ve learned that a lot of conservative women are just buying, like, medieval clothes on Etsy.

Kirsche: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah, actually.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, God.

Simone Collins: They work. They’re good.

Kirsche: Yeah, they, they are.

Malcolm Collins: But I think that across brands we’re in a world where we can do that now, right? Like, if a stuffy company isn’t good enough, a, a, a single VTuber like Leaflet can figure out how to make it herself. If a- Mm-hmm ... a clothing brand, they’re annoying, we can build our own supply chains.

And with AI, increasingly we can make our own products. So I was talking to you before the stream, but, like, if you look at the AI system that we’ve built, ‘cause we’re just constantly building new systems, we’ve built best chatbots on the market. We’ve built best AI both not safe for work video and image generation on the market that uses every mainstream model.

VTuber creation, recipe creation, an auto stalker and,

Kirsche: I think it’s also really funny how, like, the people on the left have gone from, “Ha ha, no one wants to work [00:40:00] with you, you stupid chud” to, “Ha ha, you have to use AI because no one will work with you, you stupid chud.”

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And it’s like, but AI is awesome.

I like

Simone Collins: the AI stuff. And also, yeah, like, ha ha, I will never use AI, and then their lunch is eaten by all the people who are just building better companies. It’s like-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The, the product we’re working on now that’ll hopefully be done in, like, a week or something like that is we also have a vibe coding software that we’ve built, but is gonna be an integration for, like, email and Discord and WhatsApp, and all of the places where people reach out to you just because of us as, like, famous content creators, and I’m like, “I only want this in one place.”

Mm-hmm. And then complete automation for that. And I’m like, I’m really annoyed that no one has done that very well yet, so I just decided to do it myself. But, like, people in our space can just build stuff, like build games, build s- And I wanna really encourage that, ‘cause I think that that’s the only way for us to realistically eat at their money.

Like, if somebody- Mm-hmm ... in our space starts creating motorcycles, I bet they would be much better motorcycles than Harley motorcycles. And I think it’s probably doable. I [00:41:00]

Kirsche: mean, there’s definitely a barrier of entry to doing stuff like that, especially whereas, I mean, it, it’s starting to get a bit better, and I know some companies that I’ve worked with are looking to get more manufacturing back onto the American side instead of having to use China for everything, which is great.

I love that. Yeah. I would love more, like, American-made products, especially to offer to my audience. And, and so it’s like there, there is a barrier of entry to, like, making physical stuff like that. But yeah, I agree. If, if somebody has the wherewithal to do that, like, absolutely set up a competing company.

Try to... Like, you, you’re probably not even gonna have to try too hard to get business away from a company that people have to begrudgingly buy for, from because there’s, like, not- Not really m- much else to go for, right? Like, a company- Yeah ... Nas- usually, like they control so much, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Well, people hate these companies now, and, and, and they are increasingly...

I mean, if they become increasingly inefficient and when I talk about them being inefficient, look at the cost of, of food these days. Look at the cost of the things- Mm-hmm ... you buy out there these days. Mm-hmm. The cost of the raw components have not gone [00:42:00] up that much. What you’re paying for is corporate incompetence.

That, that’s been the primary point of inflation. You, you talk about this on your show but like, if you look at the education system in terms of like putting money into public schools, and you look at a graph of like increasing costs over time, the amount of money that’s going for teachers over like the past 20 years has been about the same.

Mm-hmm. The amount of money going to administration has increased like 20x.

Kirsche: Yeah, the useless daycare jobs.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And so, it’s, it’s... I, I guess burn this stuff down, but also on the right, r- we need super doge. I think you’re right about that. That’s what I want from the next president is super doge.

Kirsche: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: don’t know.

I don’t, I really don’t know if that’s possible. Part of me is just like let these systems... I mean, they are financially unsustainable. With demographic collapse, they will crumble. Like they, they will, they... Their days are numbered, so just let them collapse. And more important it is, it’s, it is more important now to invest in and focus on the alternate systems that we’re going to have to [00:43:00] all adopt- Mm

as those systems crumble and fall apart. Like just today, I’m so excited about Midjourney’s medical announcement that they have this new scanner that is faster and hopefully in the future less expensive than an MRI that can be integrated with like a spa experience. And it’s coming from like the company that I use to generate AI anime images.

Like it’s, it’s amazing. And it’s... I, I think that we are going to see, to your point, like we don’t necessarily have to think, well, I don’t know if we’re ever gonna see US manufacturing again. I don’t think we’re ever gonna see like armchair scientist control of medical technology again because AI is weirdly and disruptively going to make a lot possible that we didn’t think was possible.

Kirsche: I think there’s also something to be said for like building your own ecosystem and getting together with other people to help build them things as

Simone Collins: well. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kirsche: But not just like waiting for the old giants to fall apart. This is, this is the point where it’s like you have to be aggressive in at the bare minimum being like, “Don’t buy [00:44:00] products from these people and here’s why.”

Like not doing the same preachy thing that leftists do where it’s just like, “If you buy these things, you’re an evil Hitler.” But it’s like you wanna get that information out so people know like, “This is what this company is doing. This is what they’re gonna continue to do. They’re lying to you, and they’re trying to subvert you.”

Malcolm Collins: Absolutely. Well, and I think, and I think for my audience, this is... I, I, I... One thing I like about this space is, like, you obviously were a big motivation for, like, Sky Browse to do some of his early videos and stuff like that, right? Like-

Kirsche: His videos are so freaking good, man.

Malcolm Collins: Aren’t they? They’re fantastic.

Amazing. Have you seen it all, by the way?

Simone Collins: Oh.

Kirsche: I’ve seen- Yeah ... a good chunk and I’ve, I’ve left some to play while I’m working. They’re like-

Malcolm Collins: Our kid sings them all the time. Now our kid is, is singing the, the, the Mormon one, the, the Bricks and Mini Pigs. Cool. You know, like...

Kirsche: I haven’t even gotten into that situation.

I had a few people in my chat tell me about it, and I was like, “Oh, I should look into it.” But then so much information kept coming out about it, I was like, “How am I going to- You- ... digest this?”

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s incred- It will, it will [00:45:00] piss you off so much. Like, like so many times, and I think that this is, is, is, is important w- more widely in our community, is be like, look, I like Mormons, I want Mormons on, on the in, but, like, we do need to get in some sort of intra community policing, right?

Like, we, we, we sometimes go into this with, like, I’m a big fan of Jews, right? But like everyone’s always like, “Malcolm, Greater Israel,” and I’m like, I don’t much care about the countries around Israel. Like, okay, Greater Israel, f- whatever. But, I’m

Kirsche: kind of just like, that’s not my sand, not my problem.

I don’t care about anything that exists- Yeah ... in the sandbox. I just don’t want American people or American money going to any wars over there.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, absolutely. We, we need to cut off funding for Israel. And I, and I was like, I don’t understand why we don’t just do that. It’d be such a win for the Trump administration.

It-

Kirsche: I would love to cut off aid from everywhere. Like, holy s**t. At least, like, I understand if we wanna maintain our position as, like, a super world power that nobody can f**k with. Like, occasionally we’ll have to just, like, throw money at some p- places. But for the [00:46:00] most part, I think we should cut that off entirely.

Cool. Like, zero aid to anywhere for at least a little while.

Simone Collins: Well, and it’s really, it’s not even our aid that matters. It’s, it’s our supply chains and buying power. Right. So, like, we don’t even need to provide aid. We can just change small incentives here and there with where things are shipped- Well, and see-

and how things are shipped ...

Malcolm Collins: w- I think we’ve gotta be aware of the consequences of cutting all aid. Like, look, when US aid was cut, the, the, the thing was cut look at all the elections of Latin America since then. Rightists keep getting elected.

Kirsche: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like, clear- clearly this has had a huge- Not enough

huge impact on these countries.

Kirsche: Clearly ...

Malcolm Collins: some of, some of them are putting people in jail and, and now have lower rates of homicide than they’ve ever had before.

Kirsche: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Some of them are cutting major social programs. Th- this is horrifying.

Kirsche: Horrifying for whom?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, right. I love that Trump and Argentina are, they get along so well now that they’re like, “Hey, let’s, let’s hand back those islands from the UK,” right?

Like- Oh

Simone Collins: my

Kirsche: gosh. And everyone was just like, “Oh, I thought people on the right wanted foreign aid cut. What about all this money he gave Argentina?” It’s like, well, [00:47:00] Argentina paid it back after, like, six months or some s**t, so...

Malcolm Collins: that’s true. That’s also awesome that like the in, in Latin America we are seeing a lot of projects work.

Like what’s happening in El Salvador is amazing.

Kirsche: It is. And I, I wish we could do like El Salvador and just start arresting activist judges who keep f*****g things up. I wish we could just do that.

Malcolm Collins: And the El Salvador prison system is apparently like really, really cool and good. They really focus on like, getting people jobs and stuff like that, and like- Huh.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, they’re, they’re nice. They have, you know, they have the nice prisons and they have the less nice prisons. But the nice ones are super nice. Well, the, for

Malcolm Collins: the kids anyway. Yeah. You just, you know, I, I, I don’t mind the, the, the Trump policy of just like instead of prison, just like e- the, the sending migrants just like where- wherever they can.

Like when they- Make public bathrooms great again ... when they can’t send them back to their own country, they’ll just be like, “Ah, we’ll send them to Haiti or whatever.”

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just-

Malcolm Collins: But I, no, I mean, I think the point I was making earlier is if you’re a fan of this show- [00:48:00] With AI and stuff like that. I’m not saying go out and white label some existing product and make it conservative or something like that, right?

I’m saying and, and AI can really help you with this. Figure out how to buy beans from a local farmer somewhere and ship them in a means that’s cost efficient. If you can do that using a network of AIs, you can get a cheaper product on the sale shelf than Campbell has, and a better product on the shelf than Campbell has, right?

Like, this is true of all of the products all the way down. With AI, we can just do things better now. I, I know with something like, okay, putting together a motorcycle. Yes, I’d love if you do it in the United States, but you know, you talk to the right shops across like China and Shen- Shenzhen and stuff like that, you can get the parts made inexpensively enough, stress test them, then have them constructed in the United States to get over the tax and, th- like, I, I want...

I think for so long we’ve been trapped in this life of you go to college, which doesn’t help people anymore and is one of the core sources [00:49:00] of rot- Yeah ... and you then get a day job. And I think what I wanna radicalize people into doing is like at least look into the alternatives. And I love Leafly’s music video about this, like don’t go to college.

Like, like put that money into trying to start a job because you’ll learn more in the-

Kirsche: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah. W- there’s, there’s so many opportunities out there now. But anyway, so- g- continue to go on. I, I don’t mean to-

Kirsche: No, no, you’re fine. I tangent all the time. It’s great. And it’s like I, I agree with you as well, like we should be setting up our own-

like parallel systems if we can, but it, it’s harder in certain areas than, than in others. Like, when, when Stream Elements announced that they might be shutting down or they’re being bought out by nobody knows yet, but when Stream Elements announced that, a lot of us went, “Wait a minute, what are we gonna do now?”

That was like the- What are Stream Elements gonna do? ... the link to use to like get donations without YouTube or Twitch or anywhere else taking a cut. And now what are we supposed to use? What, what else is there?

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s a donation platform. Well- I mean, okay, so [00:50:00]

Kirsche: it’s a donation platform ... basic- basically, it’s a donation platform, and what they do is they have it so you can pay with PayPal, and obviously you can use, like, a credit card and PayPal or whatever, and that’ll go to your PayPal, but it obscures, like, your personal information.

And then they also have something called SE Pay, where if the person doesn’t wanna use PayPal, there’s a lot of people in my community especially who are like, “Screw PayPal, I don’t wanna use them. You need to have an option to dono that doesn’t use PayPal or require a login.”

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Kirsche: So SE has SE Pay, and so you can just use your card or, like, a prepaid card or whatever to, to pay through SE Pay, and it bypasses...

It has nothing to do with PayPal whatsoever. And so it was nice to have this, like, donation link-

Malcolm Collins: I could build you

Kirsche: that ... that did that and obscured, obscured your information so nobody got your name, nobody got your address, nothing like that.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I can probably build you that in a week or so.

Kirsche: Yeah, that’s...

So, like, that was, that was something where people were just like, “Well, what am I gonna do?” And, like, there’s Streamlabs, but Streamlabs had a problem years ago where they tried, like, infringing on OBS, where, like, [00:51:00] OBS was like, “We don’t care. Everybody can use our, our code and everything.” But Streamlabs was trying to be like, “Well, we made this.

This is ours,” and everything was just, like, copy-pasted from OBS

Malcolm Collins: No, I’m, I’m being serious Is there an

Simone Collins: alternative now? Like, what are people using instead? Yeah.

Kirsche: No, everyone’s still on either Streamlabs or Stream Elements- Yeah ... because that’s, that’s what there is. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah, I can build this for you. That

Kirsche: would be crazy. And so many VTubers would use it ... I can

Malcolm Collins: build this for you. Yeah, so- I just

Simone Collins: feel like there’s spe- like what your, what your m- m- most important and, like, desired things are. No, hold on- ‘Cause if you do

Malcolm Collins: that- Hold on, hold on, Simone. I, I need to explain something.

So the way... The big challenge in putting something like this together is that the credit card companies will try to get to you, because the credit card companies are very aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. But, essentially what we do is you donate to our nonprofit. And- ... if you use your correct email address, it then accredits points to a separate site- Hmm ... sort of behind the scenes. Interesting. And so the payment providers don’t see this. So- Mm-hmm ... we would still lose any margin that we lost on the payment provider, and then we’d probably add some [00:52:00] small, like, one or 2% margin on this.

And then the- ‘

Kirsche: Cause I was gonna say, I think when it comes to Stream Elements, the SE pay, the only percentage taken out is the processing fee from the card companies, which is why everybody uses it.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, okay. Well, I mean, I could do it without taking out any money as a good favor, but... If people mention our site.

Okay, so I’ll do it without taking out any money. Yeah ... so we’ll just take out the, the card processing fees and just have it go directly to whoever the streamer is. I- in terms of obscuring user information, all of that will obviously be captured by the payment provider. Mm-hmm. But I can obscure it on our end, if that makes you feel better.

Kirsche: Yeah, I mean, if you haven’t used Stream Elements before, I can always, like, take some screenshots and, like, show you what the dashboard and stuff looks like internally.

Simone Collins: That would be really

Malcolm Collins: helpful. How do they make money if they’re not taking any

Kirsche: The way that Stream Elements made money is Stream Elements was, first and foremost, before they came out with SE pay, a sponsorship platform.

Yeah, yeah. So they would go and find sponsorships, and they would post them on their website, and then streamers could go and sign up for them. And when you got big enough, you would have, like, a Stream Elements representative who would personally contact you and be like, [00:53:00] “Hey, we have these sponsors available.

There’s this many seats. We wanted to reach out to you. Do you wanna do these?” And so they would make their money from the sponsorships, because, you know, they’re probably taking a cut from those before we get paid out.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, okay. Another thing to note is the company that does all this is actually a nonprofit, so people can donate to it as a tax deduction as well.

So- Oh ... I’ll, I’ll try to get this set up for you.

Kirsche: No, that would be interesting. I’m sure a lot of people would be very nice to have something. ‘Cause, like, when, when Stream Elements announced that, like, we don’t know who’s buying them yet still. But it’s like- Yeah ... I can only imagine all of us are just like Well, is it gonna work the same way?

Like, we don’t know who’s buying it, so we don’t know how they might f**k it up. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Very exciting. Okay. Yeah, sure. Just send me what you want and... But this is what I’m talking about, right? Like, if, if somebody’s leaving the space and they’re being a jerk, I’m like, “Okay. I, I can build this for, for...

Operate it for free in exchange for a promotion for our site,” right? Like, Yeah ... that’s, that’s an easy thing for me to do. And it’ll work for as long as it doesn’t explode and get big. I mean, obviously our platform is very [00:54:00] chud, so all the progressive VTubers are still gonna be on it. Great. B- because, yeah, we have... Like, one of the features that we have is a feature that searches every not safe for work image gallery at the same time. What the heck? ... just to annoy the, the the people who, who freak out about that stuff. But yeah, that’s really cool. What other bottlenecks do you have? I, I built the VTuber automated creation system because Leaflet said that people would appreciate that.

Mm-hmm. What, what other issues do you have?

Kirsche: I mean, me personally, I have issues with artists being reliable. Like the illustration artists I’ve worked with, they’re amazing. I love them, love every single one of them I’ve worked with. But model artists I’ve basically been waiting on my main model to be finished since 2020.

It was supposed to be finished in 2020. I have another model that’s been being worked on for several years now as well. It’s like my, my riggers or my artists just kinda disappear or don’t finish their work, and then I’m out thousands of dollars.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, yeah. So we have a system that can get you a new... So I, I’ve got to improve it.

Like we’ve obviously got to improve the end-to-end system. We don’t [00:55:00] have hand movement yet. I’m still working on boob physics. But you, you... I’ll send it to you and you can, you can try the beginning of it. But it works for a low-quality model now, and I can get it working for a high-quality model with...

Like what you would probably wanna do is generate something with our system, then hire a rigger to refine it. And with the refinement and an artist to refine it, like- Mm-hmm ... refine the eyes and stuff like this in a few areas. And I, I think you can get a model that’s as high quality as the model you have now with just a few additions to what we have.

Kirsche: This, this was given to me by a community member, Fumetsu no Tora. He makes things very fluffy. He has a very distinct art style. I like it. And he, he made this as like a gift for me, and I’ve had a few of these gift models because people in my community have just gotten like, just so- Annoyed ... frustrated.

And, and it’s, I, I appreciate that they get frustrated on my behalf because it’s like I, I can’t even show the extent of frustration I feel for how long some of this stuff has taken. Like I understand that being an artist is not, you know, a traditional job, but if you’re making your money off [00:56:00] of it, you should be treating it professionally in my opinion.

And in the VTuber sphere it’s kind of, taboo to call out artists. Like even if an artist has like taken your money and fled- ... you are still considered the one starting drama by bringing- The riggers,

Malcolm Collins: man. So this is something I’d like a callout in my audience for because it’s something that I don’t have the time to make my skill and it would really help make this an end-to-end cycle is the RFAB VTuber creation system.

If anybody wants to specialize on post-output improvement of our models because it gets most of the way there I’d be happy to intro you to people who need that service and even advertise you on the website if that’s something that you wanted to, to build as a skill set if you’re like, “I need a Some- but, but no being flaky.

We’re gonna be pretty strict about, like, actually getting things done within short time windows.

Simone Collins: We’re also actually pretty good at being go-betweens between commissioners and artists, ‘cause that was literally our first startup as a married couple. [00:57:00] Oh.

Kirsche: See, that is, that’s incredibly... That’s pretty much what VGen is.

And I, I like VGen as opposed to SKEB, because with SKEB, like, you’re not allowed to contact the artist at all. And so if you get given something and you’re, like, missing something you’re basically up s**t creek. Whereas on VGen, you, you can message them and be like, “Hey, you forgot this file,” or, “Hey, you didn’t make the background on this transparent.”

And it’s like I’ve, I’ve never really liked SKEB, and I used them once. And the one time I used them I had asked for, like, transparent backgrounds so that I could use the stuff I’m paying for in streaming, and I wasn’t given the transparent backgrounds, and obviously I can’t contact them, so I can’t get it fixed.

Oh, my gosh. And there wasn’t any way to get rid of the entire background, so it just looked really s**t with trying to, like, edit the background out myself. And so I, I could never use those things that I got.

Simone Collins: That’s so

Malcolm Collins: frustrating. That is incredibly frustrating.

Simone Collins: Yeah, what we used to do was we had a platform that had artists and then clients, and we would match them.

And we would do all the communication. So, like, a client would say [00:58:00] something really, that would really make an artist, like, sad and not wanna work on it anymore. And then we’d, like, say it in the nicest possible way and be like, “They love it so much. There’s just this one adjustment that they realize would make it

Kirsche: so

Simone Collins: much better.”

See, like, I

Kirsche: need... ‘Cause, like, cucking the artist is terrifying to me now, ‘cause it’s like-

Simone Collins: Yeah ...

Kirsche: I don’t, I don’t want, I don’t wanna be that client that’s just, “Oh, you need to fix a million things.” And I, I- Yeah ... haven’t been thus far, thankfully. But it’s also, like, I’ve had so many issues that I just I just don’t like talking to artists much anymore.

Simone Collins: Yeah, like you just want someone to, like handle it and make sure the thing comes out good, and we did that. It’s just that there wasn’t a market for it, so it wasn’t a business that could survive on its own. But like, I totally get it, and yeah, it all came from- It’s so weird ... Malcolm, Malcolm proposed to me on Reddit using commissioned art.

Aw. And then he experienced like how hard it was to work with artists, ‘cause he tried to commission, I think he commissioned like 21 pieces- Oh my God ... and discovered, like firsthand, “Oh, this is really hard.” It

Kirsche: is really hard.

Simone Collins: Artists are super unstable.

Kirsche: They are. I mean, I guess [00:59:00] you have to have some kind of instability to be like super creative and bring out like images from your brain.

That makes sense, but like, have, have the kind of volatility that makes it so you still get work done.

Malcolm Collins: Well, it’s, it’s so funny that people are like, “AI replaced all of the things we didn’t want replaced first,” like art and music and everything like that, and I’m like, no, what AI did is it made it so that average jackoffs like myself can be good at art and music, right?

Like, it democratized

Simone Collins: art. Yeah, like they’re doing... We’re, we’re using AI to make art that artists just refuse to make for us. They’re like, “Oh, I’m busy. I can’t do it.” Yeah, it’s like- Like, how dare you take our jobs? ... artists are

Kirsche: refusing. We’re not even, like, taking work away from artists, right? It’s like-

Simone Collins: Yeah, they weren’t t-

they didn’t do- They weren’t accepting our requests. Yes. I mean, they were busy. I, I, we’re making

Malcolm Collins: a VTuber model of Muhammad, right? Who am I gonna get to do that, right? Like, I almost did that. I, I do- Oh,

Simone Collins: come on. It’s not even that. I mean, ‘cause I had to deal, of course, with our, our, our commissioning platform for like all the excuses from artists if like something didn’t happen, and we would, you know, refund our clients.

Like, the money wouldn’t disappear ‘cause it was being held- Yeah ... in escrow by us. Excuses I got included, “Oh, I [01:00:00] can’t take this on, I’m pet sitting for the next month.” Like-

Kirsche: What the heck? ...

Simone Collins: how is watching someone’s cat going to prevent you from drawing a very simple anime line drawing? Like, there’s This doesn’t make

Kirsche: sense.

It doesn’t. It really doesn’t.

Simone Collins: The- these are-

Kirsche: And it’s like I’ve, I’ve had a problem with an artist before where I was like, “Hey, it’s been like a year and a half, and I see that you consistently reopen your commissions and take on new projects, and you finish those new projects before mine. If you don’t wanna work on my project, please just let me know so I can find another artist who can.”

And they’d be like, “No, no, I wanna do it.” It’s like, it’s like they wanted, I guess like, maybe clout from like working with a bigger person, but then like never finishing it. So it’s like, what, what am I suppo- like... And when they’re delayed this much, I lose opportunities. Yeah. I lose ability to do certain things.

Yeah. If I had like stuff planned out, I can’t do any of that. And so like I’ve stopped planning anything around models because I just can’t find artists to finish them.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that’s really frustrating.

Malcolm Collins: Well then, okay, I’ll get back to-

Simone Collins: Malcolm, make it better. Make it better.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. I’ll, I’ll work on the [01:01:00] VTuber thing.

I’ll send you some of the models that we’ve made already so you can get an idea of like how high quality they are. Mm-hmm ... they’re, they’re decent enough. And I’ll, I’ll continue to improve on the rigging system and everything like that. But what I really need is somebody who’s just like a specialist in this.

So any of our audience who wants to take the time to do this, it’s, it’s... The problem with this versus everything else on the website is I need to go through with every algorithmic change and then load up, add the textures on the model, which all happens automatically but takes time. Mm-hmm. Then load it into VTuber Studio and test if the ears wiggle right.

And if the ears don’t... And, and I have to have different wiggles for animal ears, and elf ears, and human ears. Mm-hmm. By the way, all of this is handled algorithmically. We have a different way of handling snouts- Mm ... so like furry models work and, you know, the, the-

Kirsche: That’s really cool ... I,

Malcolm Collins: I spend way too much time trying to get this right.

Yeah. Well, because I want people to have something that they can use, but,

Kirsche: Yeah ...

Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s with, with all of these fields, we can make something better. There’s nothing that prevents us from [01:02:00] creating the, the better version of these various things. And after this we’ll wrap things up. After this with you do we have like an open chat on like Discord, or where, where do you talk to people?

Where, where do you

Kirsche: like- Dis- Discord is the best way to get in touch with me. Like I’m still, I have like probably 40 DMs unchecked right now, but it’s still the best way to get in touch with me. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Are we, are we friends on there?

Kirsche: Yeah. Yeah, what she said.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: C-H.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I will build you this thing that you need. It ju- it just was sent to you. Okay ... and, and, I mean, it’s basically nothing to build. It’s literally just a payment sub-system that goes to you, so really all it needs is like- Yeah, with attribution

a way to manage the payment to you. So I, I can handle that.

Simone Collins: That’s very- It’s

Kirsche: just

Malcolm Collins: no one else in the world will do it for free, but I guess I’ll do it for free for clout, ‘cause,

Kirsche: That’s, that’s what, that’s what Stream Elements had. I’m like, I’m, I’m guessing, right? I’m guessing the way they made money is, like, when companies would approach them, like Raid Shadow Legends, and they’re like, “Hey, we have 500 slots for this kind of sponsor thing,” I’m assuming [01:03:00] they would pay Stream Elements before Stream Elements, like, pushed out that sponsor to the rest of us.

‘Cause, like, we never get sponsor money taken out. Whatever we make from a sponsor, like, we keep that under Stream Elements. Oh. So, like, the o- the only thing I could figure is, like, companies pay them for the advertising. That’s the only thing I could think of the way that they were making money.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, hold on.

Here’s what I don’t understand. Why don’t you guys just set up a payment processor that goes directly to you?

Kirsche: I asked. I have guys who work on my websites, like Kirsche.com, and I asked them about adding a page that has, you know, kinda like what Stream Elements did, where it’s just a donation link that obscures all of my, my personal information from, like, PayPal or whatever.

And they were like, “Well, that could be done, but then it gets a little dicey because then we’re holding on to all of that money for you until you withdraw it. And for tax time, that could make things a little weird as well.”

Malcolm Collins: I guess that’s true

Kirsche: I mean, I don’t know. I’ve never set up a payment processor. I don’t care about how the money- I’m, I’m just relaying what I’ve been told

Malcolm Collins: goes through at all. Yeah. I, I, I don’t care [01:04:00] about that. We already handle really complicated taxes for the nonprofit, so whatever. If something can be used... What? You handle it, Simone. I’m sorry. I d- I saw that- Yeah,

Simone Collins: I just... No problem That

Kirsche: face

Simone Collins: of- As the man who has not touched a single receipt related to this entire thing.

We have no accountant. It’s just me over here. No problem. Ooh. But it’s just accounting. Oh, that

Kirsche: made me remember. During my GamerSupps merch drop last year they had a separate gifting website where people could, like, buy my merch items- Oh, cool ... and they would, like, be floating around in the ether that people could claim as, like, a gift.

And you, you had, like, a limit obviously. Like, s- no- no one could claim, like, every single thing. But, like, my community has been asking for that for my website, and I asked my website guys, and they were just like, “That would cost so much to host.” I don’t, I don’t know what it would cost to host. I... My community has really wanted something like that.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, explain the feature to me again. Explain the feature?

Kirsche: I’ll have to go find screenshots, ‘cause I took screenshots of it when I had it. But basically it was a, [01:05:00] an adjacent site to the official GamerSupps website, and it was, like, a gifting platform. And so you, like, you logged in via, I think, Twitch, and they were talking about maybe integrating, like, YouTube or whatever with it later, but it was just Twitch integration for now.

And so, like, people could go to the website and buy, like, a Kirsche cup or a Kirsche desk mat, and they could either pick a person on Twitch to specifically claim it- Oh ... so it’d be, like, tagged to that person’s Twitch name, and that person could go and claim it. Or if they just wanted to buy, like, 20 cups and have, like, anyone redeem them, they would buy, like, 20 Kirsche cups, and those would be floating around in the ether, and you could go to the gift page, and you could hit claim cup, and then you would put in your shipping information, and you’d have to pay for shipping.

But everything is given to, you know, different people. That

Simone Collins: sounds like so much fun. I like the

Malcolm Collins: idea.

Kirsche: Yeah. I c- Everyone loved it. And I like the idea. I wanna do that. Yeah, I like the idea because, like, there, there are some community members who, like, you know, they might be in a bad financial place. They might want something to support the creator, but they, they don’t have the money to do so.

Malcolm Collins: It’s a great idea.

Kirsche: And then the giga whales come in and they’re just like, “Here, my children. Have the gifts. I am Santa,” you know? Yeah. [01:06:00]

Malcolm Collins: I can build this. I can build this. I got... Yeah, d- br- just when you have things you want, come to me in the future, and I’ll just

Kirsche: give you what you want. Oh, hell f*****g yeah.

Hell yeah. Yeah, I- And I’ll try,

Malcolm Collins: I’ll try to make some of the screenshots for you ... remember there was a, there was a LeetBit stream where we had people come in on the stream and they were like, “I want an AI DM for, like, dungeon, dungeon master that, like, handles that.” And I was like, “I’ll make it. It’s done.”

The, the the, the stalker feature I made for Simone. She goes, “I wanna stalk people more easily online.” I was like, “Okay, I’ll, I’ll build that for you.”

Simone Collins: Call it Super stalk and then The recipe maker

Malcolm Collins: I, I put together based on the

Simone Collins: Yeah, but no,

Kirsche: but this is exciting. I love hearing that, like, you wanna get in the nitty-gritty and, like, build these kind of platforms that either only exist in, like, tiny little bubbles or we’re excluded from because we’re chuddy buddies.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, chuddy buddies. The chuddiest of platforms, right? You know, everybody comes in and... No, no, I love doing it because it annoys the leftists, okay? If I can make a good- How

Kirsche: dare you build your own things.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, if I can make a good VTuber rig [01:07:00] system, and then a bunch of VTubers start using it and the leftists will witch hunt their own, Yeah

infinitely, “Are you using the chud VTuber system? Are you using- Did you get chud

Kirsche: rigging?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. It’s hilarious.

Kirsche: And so I’ve, I’ve been told by a couple illustration artists I’ve worked with as well, like, they’ve, they’ve had large VTubers come to them and be like, “You can’t work with Kirsche. You have to reject her if she ever comes and tries to get artwork from you.”

And they’re just like, “Well, why? Like, I want money. I don’t care.”

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, one of the funniest things is AI, and I don’t know how much you use AI on a daily basis anymore. How, how much do you use AI?

Kirsche: I really don’t use AI much at all for anything. My, my head moderator uses AI a lot to, like, double check things or get more sources if I need them or whatnot.

Yeah. And he’s, he’s been great with AI. He makes my thumbnails with AI just because it would, you know, take forever to get an artist to finish- Works great ... different thumbnails as often as I like to change them. But I mean, I’d be willing to use AI [01:08:00] for most things. I think my, my hard stop at the moment is, like, when I’m selling merchandise, I want the artwork on that merchandise to be from a real person that I paid money to.

Yeah. I would feel weird, like, putting AI art on merch. And so for everything that I sell, I, I try to find an artist that kind of matches up with, like, the head image that I have. Because, like, I also would not want to go to an artist and be like, “Hey, change your entire style. Make it this way.” So I try to find an artist that matches with, like, the vision that I have.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, but with AI, this is one of the big areas where we have a huge advantage against the corpos and the average leftist is it’s like the leftists are trying to fight us without beautiful women and without AI, right? Like, th- we should have no trouble cleaning up against this.

Kirsche: Oh, I just thought of something as well.

Your, your, like, VTuber model creation thing is also going to fix another issue some VTubers have fallen into. So back in the day you guys know who Project Melody is, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. [01:09:00]

Kirsche: So Project Melody her model artist DMCA’d a lot of her videos and was trying to strong arm her to pay him more money to use her model that she already paid for- Oh

because she didn’t have a contract saying that she had, like, full IP rights to the model from him. And so there have been a, a couple of other, I think, smaller VTubers who had a similar issue, but it’s like- Oh, okay. Oh my ... whenever, whenever you get your model, like, you need to have an airtight legal contract just in case, just in case that artist decides, “Well, now you’re huge.

I made your model when you had, like 500 viewers, but now you have, like, 5,000, and I want more money,” right? So, like, so they can’t harm you after the fact.

Malcolm Collins: That’s very frustrating. Yeah. Well, anyway, it’s been absolutely great to have you on. I- Sorry if

Kirsche: I ran just a bit over your time.

Malcolm Collins: No, I, I love this.

I love this. This is great. And I’m happy to do, you know, if you wanna come on again, if you want o- one of us on ever. I mean, usually it’s just me ‘cause Simone can’t handle weird times. But

Kirsche: This is true. Under- I mean, she has a baby, you [01:10:00] know? So,

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: It makes it tough, you know?

Malcolm Collins: We got, we have five-

Kirsche: I can imagine.

Simone Collins: Yeah, with five it’s complicated.

Malcolm Collins: Trying to replace them. Yeah. That’s, that’s our goal. We have a, a live, laugh, love poster in our house that says, “We will replace you,” i- in, in live, laugh, love style.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So when the reporters come over- Beautiful ... they always get really freaked out. They’re like, “What?”

Kirsche: I, I got...

When I had my PO box, which I, I shut it down because a lot of stuff was just getting kicked back return to sender, like my mail wasn’t being delivered for some reason. Yeah. But one of the things that got delivered was a like Korean flag with Kim Jong Un on it, and it said, “Live, laugh, love.” That’s so

Simone Collins: good.

Oh my gosh. Where do we get one of those? That is amazing. I

Kirsche: have no idea, but I saw that, I was like, “Who sent this? What the heck?” Yeah.

Simone Collins: Thank you, kind stranger. Yeah. Thank you.

Kirsche: That’s a beautiful gift. I love this. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Oh,

Simone Collins: we

Malcolm Collins: should do something like that, Simone.

Simone Collins: That sounds legit amazing. He’s a very

Malcolm Collins: creative little dreamer or whatever.

Yeah. And also I, the main reason I wanna connect with you on, on, on Discord is just to build, because the stuff that you, you say you need built is not difficult for me to build. It might be difficult for my wife to handle the [01:11:00] accounting on.

Simone Collins: It’s just accountable. I, I think I can figure it out as long as, yeah, the, the reporting.

I mean, the reporting has to be clear for each creator to see what they’ve gotten. So as long as I can see it and keep track of it, it’s okay.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Well, fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah. And it’s completely amazing. Thank you guys. It

Simone Collins: was

Kirsche: fun.

Malcolm Collins: You’re, you’re amazing. No, I mean, I, I- it’s fun, but also just, like, you’re such a legend.

Aw ... you are really the, the buck at which the cultural tide began to turn. It really

Kirsche: broke- I don’t know if I would say, like, legend, but I, I am very happy that I kind of, I guess, held a stronghold door and made other creators feel more comfortable about coming out and talking about things that they care about, that they believe.

Yeah. And seeing, seeing me... Like, I’ve had so many people say, like, seeing me stand up the way that I did to something like Vice, it made them all feel like maybe we can actually have an effect on something. It is true. And so that, that makes me happy. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You didn’t just stand up. You clowned on them. You [01:12:00] crushed them.

It was a complete retreat to the extent that I don’t think, like, Vice even has an audience anymore, right? Like, not, not because of you, but I think that these institutions- Mm ... that we grew up thinking of as important, like Vice, we’ve realized that Vice versus Fox Girl- ... Vice is toothless. They have- I

Kirsche: love how some of them tried downplaying it like, “Oh, this can’t be real.

Like, she wrote it so unprofessional.” And I had a lawyer, man, come on,

Simone Collins: dude. Oh my gosh.

Kirsche: I just treated Vice the exact way that they should be treated.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And it worked. And ever since then, there has not been a single, that I’m aware of, successful cancellation of a right-wing internet figure th- that- that was, that was the last of it.

That was

Simone Collins: the last- It was the turning point. It was the turning point. It was, it was

Malcolm Collins: huge Like it, it never ha- do you know how f*****g crazy that is? Like, obviously Elon buying Twitter had a huge effect on this, right?

Kirsche: And I, I also love, like, the, the wave of encouragement that came after [01:13:00] that. Yeah Like, as we’ve seen with like Advanced GG dropping Rev and Straub.

Any time Advanced GG tries to post something- ... everyone just inundates them with like, “Why would anyone work with you when you just drop your creators in the face of a cancel mob, and you keep on other people who harass others, like, objectively?”

Malcolm Collins: And I love wh- when you look at individuals like Rev and Straub, that’s the other thing I really love about the culture that’s come out of this.

And how it’s affected right-wing culture is I think for a while we weren’t sure whether the new version of right-wing culture was actually accepting of people who are, like, different and weird as long as they ch- are, are, are part of our larger... And then, you know, I think Anna Valens affirmed, you know, you and Leaflet for the mainstream wife right audience.

And then GamerSupps affirms Rev. Like, Rev genuine- I think for a long time a lot of people on the right were like, “I don’t know, it’s like an anime, vampire- Well, Gamer- ... all these” GamerSupps

Kirsche: is different from Advanced GG.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, wait, sorry. Advanced GG. Sorry. I know that

Kirsche: they’re all pretty weird and stuff. Yeah.

Advanced [01:14:00] GG were the ones who dropped, who dropped Rev and Straub just for no reason.

Malcolm Collins: To, but they, they, the, the backlash to that I think really affirmed the, the Rev and Straub for a while. The

Kirsche: change, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And now it’s like we’re all, like, just, like, nerdy weirdos, right? Like, the, the nerdy weir- And that’s the other thing about the nerdy weirdos, the, the nerd scene.

It’s not even weird. We’re nerds. We’re just f*****g nerds. Is, is, is we are winning this for the right. Like, we don’t have internal fighting with each other. We don’t have any real scandals. We don’t get married in front of the Pope and then randomly- ... cheat on our husband a bunch of times.

Kirsche: Yeah, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, like, we are, like, the wholesome part. And we- Mm ... and it’s like, no sh- they’re, the only shots fired I’m aware of is, like, a year ago Rev was annoyed at Knucks about something and then got over it, right? Like, but generally speaking, it’s like none of us ever attack each other. And I really love that wholesome feeling to this.

As well as creators like you [01:15:00] who are significantly larger than us, creators like Knucks who are significantly larger than us doing collabs. It’s such a wholesome feel to a community.

Kirsche: It’s, it’s really nice and I, I, I enjoy that there’s not as much infighting and I wish that Especially when it comes to Bridge stuff.

Like, even, even if other larger right-wing creators don’t wanna talk to me because I’m anime, I wish they would at least showcase the research that I’ve done. Because I think it’s a very important conversation, and it’s very important to show more people.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so here’s, here’s what I have. So any of our fans who either work at the White House or have connections at the White House I think getting...

Where would you tell them to go for the, the biggest condensed, your research?

Kirsche: My pinned tweet on my Twitter profile is an article of every single source of everything I’ve found researching into Bridge since 2024. The only thing not posted there, because I’m not a journalist, so I don’t know how to go about doing it, is I’ve recorded the monthly meetings Bridge has had, or one of my moderators has when I can’t, [01:16:00] for the last two and a half years.

And I have all of these videos of them saying exactly what they’re gonna be doing, exactly what their plans are, the companies they’re specifically working with, the CEOs and the CMOs and the CFOs that come to these meetings from places like even McCormick, the freaking spice company. Like, I have all of these recordings, and I just, I don’t know what to do with them because I don’t wanna go afoul of, like- Okay, so-

some recording laws- Yeah ... or whatever.

Malcolm Collins: We can also... So I tell our fans, send that to anyone you know. Simone we’ve been, we’ve been asked to speak at the White House before, so we’ve, we’ve done that. And- Oh ... we should reach out to our contact there, Simone, just as a task item. We should reach out to our contact there about this to see if we can get them to look into this at all.

Because it could be an interesting win for them.

I’m connected with them.

Simone Collins: Well, I know,

Kirsche: yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah, it’s- And they’re very big, and they’re often very overwhelmed, so maybe they just need to hear about it from our angle, so we should. Let

Kirsche: me... Maybe, yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So I think, I think get Heritage Foundation in front of Bridge. We have connections at, like, Claremont and stuff like that, right?

Like we could- Mm-hmm ... reach out.

Kirsche: Yeah, that would be great. I would love to. Like, anybody who’s willing to talk, just give them my Discord. Give me, like, a hundred- Yeah, ‘

Malcolm Collins: cause I, [01:17:00] I remember talking- ... people to contact me ... with Dustin about starting, like, a, a nerd right or new right, like, institutional, like, fund similar to Heritage- Mm-hmm

or something like that, and he’s just like, “I don’t see what benefit.” But at the very least, we should be handing this sort of information to people.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, because you’ve done, like, reams of research on this. Yeah. Which is invaluable. And so that, like, they could take that and run with it. ‘Cause they have the lawyers, and you did the research, and they can just plug and play.

It’s like, “Oh, look, I can start here, here, and here.” Like, that much- Yeah, exactly ... time.

Kirsche: And, and especially- Do you know who- ... more so that, like, obviously everything in my, my Twitter article is for public consumption, but, like, the, the videos of these internal meetings where they speak freely because they believe no one who doesn’t believe other than them is watching- Yeah

it, it’s insane some of the stuff that they say.

Simone Collins: Gosh.

Malcolm Collins: Oh. Who do we... Who else do we know that could, I, like, I’m thinking who’d be interested in going deep on this. You know, Louise Perry talking with you could be pretty good. She’s got a decent audience. And I think she’d be interested Do, do you know Louise Perry?

Kirsche: I do not.

Simone Collins: She’s based in the UK. [01:18:00] She is one of those, like, I- canaries in the coal

Malcolm Collins: mine She’s, she’s really big. She is in the UK. So, you know, we’re known as like the pronatalist couple. Mm-hmm. Whatever we are to Elon- Mm ... JK Rowling. Yeah. In the same way that like JK Rowling can’t spend all day railing against trans people online, Louise Perry can’t

Does that for her, right? You know? Yeah, yeah. She also goes really deep on a lot of stuff and former leftist and everything like that. Yeah. I mean, a, a lot of our government connections are in the UK because like we’ve been better at infiltrating governments there. Which is- I don’t know why that’s the case.

There’s just, I, I guess, a larger nerd government faction in the UK.

Kirsche: I guess maybe. Yeah. I, I moved back to, like, where I’m from, so I’m back in New England, and I’ve, I’ve been meeting with a lot of like libertarian party and free state party people in New Hampshire, and that gives me, that gives me great, great hope for the future, at least out here.

That’s so wonderful. Which

Malcolm Collins: usually I’m like a doomsday party and hope for the best, but- Oh, I used to live in New Hampshire. I love, I love that stuff. Yeah, we, we’ve done we’ve done speaking at [01:19:00] some of that, and we’ve been asked to come speak at something in New Hampshire. Do you know what it is, Simone, the group?

They wanna fly us out.

Simone Collins: H- have you spoken with them? Like, some new s- society and they reached out on X, and I can’t remember the name. I can look it up really fast, but like... yeah. I know there are a lot of, like, free state related societies that it’s like a membership based private society.

Kirsche: Heck yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah, awesome. This has been so great. And I’m gonna get building those things, and hopefully I can have them done in a couple weeks.

Kirsche: And I will try to get screenshots of the SE backend and the GamerSupps gifting platform.

Great,

Malcolm Collins: great. Amazing. I’ll try to mimic, I’ll try to mimic them. Just so you know our system runs on Stripe, so that would be the payment processor.

Kirsche: That makes sense. That makes sense. I think God, what’s it called? Sidescrollers plus Locals, I think they also run on Stripe.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, oh, a- also important for you to know, the reason I use Stripe is because you can use Stripe with Privacy.

Mm-hmm. Privacy is a app that you can sign into that creates- Mm ... a fake one-time use credit card using your credit card that [01:20:00] uses a fake name and address. That’s pretty cool. So if people wanna be, like, totally anonymous, even to me, that can be done.

Kirsche: That’s pretty neat.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All right. Well- Well,

Kirsche: all right

Malcolm Collins: spectacular. Have a wonderful day.

Kirsche: You too. Thank you again for having me on, and bye bye.

Speaker 6: Okay, so you wanted to show the fans the toys that you bought?

Yeah

All of the places that are, that are trying to destroy the United States of America, or just trying to, or just trying to shoot a nuclear bomb at, at America. Okay? So Iran, for sure, right? Iran. What about China or Europe? Who do you, who do you dislike more?[01:21:00]

So you’re going to handle both China and Europe?

Octavian Collins: And, and on, and on both islands there will be Chinook helicopters drop, dropping snipers to shoot people- ... very fiercely and, and very invisible. Wait, only, only the bad people or the civilians too? Oh, only the bad military people. Or- But the civilians-

Speaker 6: And what are you gonna do with the civilians after you get rid of the military people?

Oh, so you’ll, you’ll bring freedom to China and [01:22:00] Europe?