Jeremy Boreing Is Wrong About Integralism and the American Founding

WEBVTT
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Old school intro, because Taffy doesn't know what to do with an intro if he's not putting me in it making fun of me, I guess.
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You're definitely not uh upset about that at all.
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Um so all right, I have work at one, I have to wake up at 1.30 in the morning.
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So there's not going to be a local show tonight.
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Um, we are going to just be doing YouTube.
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We're gonna keep it at an hour tonight.
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Um a few months back, Jeremy Boring did an episode with a guy discussing integralism, and I I remember watching some of it when it came out, and then it kind of went to on the back burner.
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I don't think I understood how important this issue was until Rob and I did the encyclical series, and actually going through Leo the Thirteenth's encyclicals and realizing that every single thing he was warning us about, and not just him, like the Pioces and like all of those popes that were warning about modernism and warning us about the uh liberalism and all that stuff, they were warning us about the American idea secularism, yeah.
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But it it was it's essentially the American, it's Americanism, and it like everything that we based our constitution on, and and it took a while for me to um realize how brainwashed I was by just being an American and learning stuff in school.
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So I don't think I thought anything of it when you know I I whatever when when he first did the episode, I was like, oh, that's interesting, you know, they're talking about integralism.
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But going back and re-watching some of this stuff, I'm just like, holy cow, this is this is a way bigger issue.
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I also had somebody reach out to me that um told me uh he's at a university, and he said there's an active purge going on at universities right now.
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And Catholic universities.
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Catholic universities, I'm sorry.
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So it's not, it's uh Benedictine College, Franciscan University, and Ave Maria, all of them are dealing with this issue, and it's essentially Kruipers versionists, and they are they're really worried about the next generation recapturing the institutions, and I have a feeling this is why the FBI was infiltrating track parishes, it all kind of comes down to all this stuff.
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So I I didn't realize how important this issue was at the time.
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Now looking back on it, I'm starting to realize that this is this is actually something we need to discuss.
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So we brought on uh TLM Ryan and American reform.
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Um, I don't know how you guys want to do it.
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I mean, I cut a few clips up, but if you guys want to give like a few quick like preliminary statements of what your thoughts were on the on the episode and what what what your what your thoughts are on this topic before we jump in.
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Brian, go right ahead.
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Yeah, go ahead.
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Sure.
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Um well I watched I watched the whole hour and a half.
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Uh thanks for that penance.
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Uh it was quite it was pretty painful.
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I'll give Jeremy credit.
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I don't view him as an ally at all, and I think having this guest on is damaging, but he he did not say anything nasty uh about Catholics.
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However, it was the Catholic, in my opinion, uh, who said very disturbing things.
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I mean, it's he's an assistant professor at the University of Tennessee, and I Googled things throughout and just was like, oh, well, that's wrong.
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That's I mean, objectively incorrect on a historical level, on a statistical level.
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It was quite shameful.
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And the most awkward part was in the last 10 minutes, then Jeremy said, Why should somebody become Catholic after an hour and 20 of just ripping on Catholicism when Catholicism has any semblance of power?
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I thought it was pretty shameful.
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Um, that's just my uh two seconds on that in terms of integralism itself.
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Um, fairly new to the concept, so looking forward to learning a bit.
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All right, just like you.
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Yeah, just like Ryan, I watched this a couple of months ago.
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I have a really keen interest in this area, Catholic social teaching, integralism.
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And so when I saw a professor James Patterson on Jeremy Boring's program, I knew what was going to happen.
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And he really is a thorn in the side of the post-liberal movement, which is now reached somewhat outside of containment, and even non-Catholics are starting to reconsider their liberal priors.
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What's difficult though is that Patterson just accepted a job at Catholic University of America, and he's able to detect any kind of illiberalism, which is to say authentic, intransigent Catholicism.
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So he has this conversation with Jeremy Boring, and he's talking about the American situation.
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And actually, I think before we even start, it's good to let everyone know what liberalism is.
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So there are three main divisions of liberalism.
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You have religious liberalism, which maintains that civil society, the state, is completely independent of the church and revealed religion, and it denies any duties towards the same.
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So it's opposed to the harmonious union of church and state.
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Political liberalism says that civil authority resides in the people and originates in the people and with their consent.
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So you see how that ties into the American Declaration of Independence penned by Jefferson.
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And then you have economic liberalism, that's the final division of liberalism, and that proclaims the exaggerated autonomy of the individual in economic affairs and denies the right of the state to positively intervene in the economy.
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So in an American context, we just know this as libertarianism or conservative economics.
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But that is philosophically what liberalism is.
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And in an American context, that's actually identified with conservatism.
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American conservatism is liberalism across all three of those divisions.
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100%.
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And I it I it took a long time for me to understand that that conservative politics in America is just liberalism.
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That's all it is at its core.
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So it's they they use the word integralism as if it's something new, but really this is just I mean, this is the way the the the Christian world was for over a thousand years, and it's really just just Catholic teaching, correct?
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So so the first clip I'm gonna have you play, Rob, uh, they steel man the position.
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And it's it's not a bad steel man.
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And to the point where when he's finished with it, I'm like, okay, case closed.
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I don't see I don't see where the issue is here.
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So it's the first clip I sent over to you, I think it's six minutes long.
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We're not gonna play the whole clip, but I want to hear the steel man argument of it, which I mean, when you listen to it, you're just like, why wouldn't why wouldn't anybody want this?
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It's talking about how the state is subordinate to the church, and when society functions like that, the state is sanctified.
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And in faith and morals, he's he they carve it out too.
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It's not like a complete theocracy.
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Correct.
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There's always that distinction.
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So, like Rob was getting at in Anthony too, you have that distinction between the two powers, and this dates all the way back to the first millennium and Pope Gelasius, the two sources, the two swords, one is temporal, one is spiritual, and the former, the temporal, is subordinated to the spiritual because man's supernatural end is the most important.
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So obviously, his temporal end, which the state is concerned with, must be subordinated to that.
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And then just one last comment.
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Rob was exactly right, because really, up until the American Revolution, every country, even Protestant countries after their revolution, they still maintained state religions and understood their importance.
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It was actually the American so-called experiment which deviated from that as an ideal.
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And so now we have this idea of the separated church and state and religious indifferentism and religious freedom.
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That is actually entirely new, novel.
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It's a departure from the principles in medieval Europe and also ancient civilizations.
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And it is at the root of what the council was about.
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Essentially, the council was the church relinquishing its temporal authority, in my opinion.
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So we'll get we'll get into that as we go.
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But I the more I think about it and the more resistance you see to even the most like the recent popes, when whenever there's a Catholic leader who gets up and starts speaking like a Catholic, the pushback they get from the Pope himself.
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It's like the popes don't want Catholic countries, they want they want to just have spiritual authority over their subjects, and that's it.
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They don't want any kind of influence over society.
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They they basically now want a multicultural democracy, is what the church is pushing for, which is insane to me.
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So let's uh let's jump into that first clip, Rob.
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Let's just let's just hear the hear the steel man argument.
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Right.
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Uh give me their best argument.
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Let's steel man the thing.
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We we don't want to uh you know we don't want to swatish straw men around here.
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No.
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What is the integralist argument for integralism?
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How how far back does it go?
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So they would argue, um I put it on one and a half times, and you're muted wrong.
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Upon the creation of the Catholic Roman Empire, right, after Constantine, uh there was the fulfillment of a political theology that before had been conditioned by persecution.
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Uh so Catholics very strongly emphatically sided with political liberty for all religions.
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But upon the achievement of an established church, you know, first with the toleration under Constantine, then later it's its complete establishment, uh you have uh now increasingly the church becoming as much of a role in public life as the empire.
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And there's this moment that you often find they very much embrace, which is this moment when Theodosius, the Emperor of Rome, is excluded from mass on the basis of performing some kind of violent act or some sort of rebellion, which he murders people.
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And St.
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Ambrose of Milan denies him entry until he confesses and does penance.
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And that's supposed to be the model that we look to, right?
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That you have a personal sovereign who rejects their own sinfulness in the name of sanctity, and that it's the church that imposes this.
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Uh, another person they really look to is Saint Louis IX, who was a French king of the name of the city of St.
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Louis is after him.
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There's a statue of him.
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Uh, and St.
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Louis IX was a great patron of the church and went on crusades uh to, you know, relieve Christian communities in North Africa.
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Uh doesn't succeed, but the point is that he dedicated the entire nation of France to the purposes set by the Catholic Church.
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And that what this does is it sanctifies the nation, places the nation in the care of Providence, and that there will be blessings that come from this as well.
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Um, and the view is that this model worked until there were sort of problems that surfaced, first with the Reformation, and then second with the introduction of liberalism, this idea of classical liberalism with Adam Smith, and then its radical departure in France that leads to the French Revolution, and that this um this liberalism is really no different from the kind that you see in England.
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It just takes on a more radical form in France, but they're both equally bad.
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And then the final permutation is communism.
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I thought that was a decent sealment argument.
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I mean, listen, as a Catholic, we know from our history how many kings went and kissed the feet of the Pope, right?
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Like the the kings of the of the Middle Ages and and and and older would go and kiss the feet of the Pope because and and then you have the controversy of Charlemagne getting crowned and all that stuff.
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Like this this this was always like an issue in the church, but the idea is that the the pope had spiritual authority over these kings, and it allowed civilization to have Christ the king be like the social kingship of Christ was enacted throughout all nations until the Reformation and the three stages he just talked about.
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That's exactly right.
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And the presentation he gave there was was fairly accurate.
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There were a couple of minor disagreements that I would have there, but it was with the Protestant revolution in the 16th century, and not only did you have individuals coming away from the Catholic Church, it was a corporate falling away, entire nations.
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And so that all those Protestant principles, those revolutionary principles in the ecclesiastical order were then transferred into the political order, and then you have this sinister ideology that comes forth from the Enlightenment, which is liberalism.
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You see it first arrive here in America from England.
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It was actually the British and their so-called glorious revolution, but then you see it in France, and that's actually where integralism starts out in Europe in reaction, the Catholic counter-revolution, in reaction to so-called liberal Catholicism, which tried to harmonize somehow the principles of liberalism and the revolution with true religion.
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And obviously they're irreconcilable, but this whole movement of Catholic liberalism really in the 19th century, that's where the integralists took their stand and they were anti-modernist, anti-liberal.
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They were in France and Spain.
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And so that's that's all before even the Second Vatican Council, or even before today.
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It's all there, and you guys cover that in those papal encyclicals.
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It's it's all there from centuries ago.
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Yeah, it was those priests like Lamoney and Montember, and and you know, those guys that we mentioned.
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Yes.
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Which culminates in Fulton Sheen and Bishop Baron.
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Um, so um I the other the other the second clip I started was just to point out, you could go to the second clip, Rob, because that one I just wanted to point out that this guy talks about that he was at Ave Maria University and he's kind of going through this stuff, and and this is where the this is where you know the the the clash starts to starts to get into.
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You first become aware of the movement.
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So I was a teacher at the uh Ave Maria University and there were integralists there.
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In Florida.
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In Florida, yeah.
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And you know, not everyone there's an integralist, it's a very you know diverse group of Catholic intellectuals down there.
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So I don't mean to disparage any of it, but there were integralists there who who taught it and who treated it as the official sort of political theology of the church.
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And it was the first I'd ever heard of this.
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So I, you know, became uh interested.
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I read uh one of the early major blogs called the Josias, started by a guy named Elliot Milko and his friend Kevin Gallagher, uh, and that people I knew at on campus uh would publish for.
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Um and I was surprised.
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There were a lot of things that were in the mix with this.
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Some of it made it on into uh Josiah, some of it would not make it on.
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There was a kind of consciousness about what you say and what you write, but a large part of it was like a kind of paranoia about Freemasonry that never really makes it onto the uh onto the site.
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But there was also a very strongly anti-liberal component uh that was originally not just, you know, conservative, but there was also a very active leftist group, like Bernie bro integralists, if you will.
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So tell me what's wrong with this statement.
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Catholic integralists believe that the church teaching should supersede the state.
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Right.
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That the state should act as a um that the state should act as a uh enforcer of church teaching, particularly around moral issues, uh that the state should be fundamentally Catholic, the citizenship should be premised on being a baptized Christian, um, and and full citizenship a baptized Catholic.
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Uh, and that the American founding ideals, the all men are created equal, uh representative government based on the individual.
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We could we could go into that.
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Like he's he's getting into some stuff there.
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But um the the Josiah movement, uh actually, AR, why don't you why don't you give a little background on that?
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Yeah, this is more in the present.
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And so people might be familiar with the recent controversy that is brewing around Father Edmund Waldstein.
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He is an Austrian theologian and monk, and he actually founded, from a clerical perspective, the Josias blog in 2013.
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And originally they were explicitly integralist, this restoration of Catholic political philosophy, Catholic social teaching, very faithful to the popes of the 19th century and the early 20th century.
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And so that's where this movement is has begun in 2013 at the Josias blog.
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And then later on, it has developed into the post-liberal movement.
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You have Dr.
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Chad Pechnold, Patrick Denine, Dr.
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Adrian Vermule.
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These are public Catholic intellectuals out there.
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Some of them even have some influence with JD Vance.
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And that's why this is really in the crosshairs, because it's not just ordinary men like us talking about this, it's men with actually power and they have positions within the institutions.
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And that's really the concern.
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What if the institutions were to convert to Catholicism?
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Can you still have this Protestant Masonic country if Catholics are the intellectual and moral elite of America?
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And of course, the answer is no.
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So this is why you're seeing things like Catholic coalition against anti-Semitism pop up in Stupenville.
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This is why you have the Phylos Project.
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This is why you're getting millions of dollars pumped in by Miriam Adelson and Paul Singer at these universities because they are terrified of this.
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They're terrified of these institutions flipping.
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Look, the revolution happened in their favor when they came into the institutions, right?
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They came in and basically communism took effect inside of our institutions and over, you know, this they're not worried about a revolution happening next week.
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They're worried about a generation from now.
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They're worried about two generations from now.
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Like this stuff, if it starts to take root, because first off, you cannot defeat the the Catholic arguments.
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The only way you can defeat Catholicism is by infecting people with sin.
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Like that's the way you defeat Catholicism, is get people hung up inside their um their like uh in in in their in their bad habits and their sin, and that will undermine that's why a certain group likes to use usury and pornography and things like that.
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Yeah, it's uh I mean it gets down to uh libido dominandi, right?
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Like things like that.
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That's how you undermine the church.
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But if you actually try to argue against Catholicism, it is by far the superior argument, obviously.
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And then the other thing as Catholics, we recognize that censorship is good and necessary, and that we don't need to give air and truth equal rights and protection before the state.
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That's absurd in itself.
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I mean, even without the Catholic faith, you know from natural reason alone that you wouldn't give equal rights to truth and falsehood and equate them before the state.
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And so Catholics are great at this because we are illiberal.
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So we want to punish what is good using moral means, of course, and in service of the good.
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It's not an vindictive punishment or anything like that.
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But the problem is that they view Catholicism as a threat to America, and it is in a superficial sense, but not in a real, uh serious and fundamental sense, because the only way in which America can be truly pleasing to God is if she is converted to the social kingship of Jesus Christ and recognize first the rights of God before the rights of man.
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And in the American philosophical paradigm, we're only recognizing the rights of man.
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But there is actually no threat, objectively speaking, to America from Catholics.
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We want to lovingly convert our country, use moral means, but the enemies of the church, which they objectively are, they see it as a threat and they're going to act as such.
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And so that's why we have to be willing to take them on in battle, verbally and other other things, using moral means and argument, having debates, things like that.
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Yeah.
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So that's where they're coming from.
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I see.
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Um, Ryan, I know you sent a few clips over and you got a whole list full of notes next to you.
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.400
So I want to make sure that you get a chance to jump in with some of your ideas here.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.240
Yeah, you want to throw up um, I mean, I sent you four clips, they're a lot shorter.
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.160
I sent them to Rob in the order you sent them to me, so he's gonna he'll play the first one.
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:41.519
The third one's the best, but the answer is important.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:46.559
It's that Catholic integralism is rising, but it has not risen, right?
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:59.599
It is um there's an important document that came out of the Second Vatican Council called Dignitate Sumane that more or less put this to bed, that we were not going to uh tolerate any kind of arguments like this anymore.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.599
And they're sort of integralist attempts to kind of get out from under this.
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:11.519
Um, they're not very convincing, um, to say the least, considering that was the expressed intention behind this second Vatican Declaration.
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:13.279
What does the declaration posit?
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:14.640
Uh well, it's in the name.
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.039
Uh Dignitante Simone just is what it sounds like.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:19.039
I barely speak English.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:26.720
So, well, let me tell you, I have never felt more like a professor during this interview than me uh doing that bit.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.440
I'm sorry.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:29.200
Uh it's human dignity, right?
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:35.039
So the idea is that people possess religious, a right to religious liberty because they are human.
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:40.480
So you can't do things like say to a person, well, you're unbaptized, so you can't be a citizen.
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:41.039
Right?
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:46.319
That's a violation of the very nature of the person as God created him or her.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:56.400
Uh and that's why a companion to dignitante Simone was an epistle and a declaration called Nostratate, which was the condemnation of anti-Semitism.
00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.960
Uh and you know, the church had a lot to do.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:21:59.680
This is why I say.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.240
Like at the heart of the council was this stuff, okay?
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.640
Like, this is at the heart of the council.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.039
And first off, those statements are completely untrue.
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:11.440
Like, you still have dignity if you're not a citizen.
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:12.720
That's like ridiculous.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.480
What a silly thing to say.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:28.799
But this is what I'm the more I think about those two documents, what the church is doing, it's the liberals won over and they made liberal Catholicism and it beat out those previous popes who were preaching against modernism.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:33.599
And they basically said the church no longer has temporal authority and we want a multicolor.
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:39.039
Because the church sees things, it sees itself as universal.
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:46.960
And it thinks the world could just, you know, it could just be open borders because it sees itself as a universal, universal church.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:56.400
It doesn't, it's it's a scary thing when you start saying when you lose the subsidiarity aspect of what the church had always taught.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:07.519
Well, this guy only, um, you know, that was just one clip, but the entire episode he only views things through conciliar lens.
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:12.079
He actually cannot do anything but denounce the pre-conciliar teachings.
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:18.559
And I think in the fourth clip I sent you, what the he actually like condemns saints, he condemns church fathers.
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:19.200
Yes.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.200
He he he cannot.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.400
Yeah, I I mean I would say if the council didn't happen, he would not be Catholic.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.039
He is only a conciliar Catholic, and that's it.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.119
That I mean that's how he presents himself.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.599
But he has issues, he has larger issues.
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:38.480
He goes on and on about how uh oh integralism's a threat to America as its founding.
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.720
Based on the fact that you might not be able to get full citizenship rights if you're not baptized.
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:44.160
Well, hold on a second, buddy.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:48.640
Do you realize the voting posture in the founding of America?
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.960
You had to be a white, male, landowner up to, I think, 25 acres.
00:23:53.279 --> 00:24:00.720
Like your entire premise is just shot there because that's what America was founded upon.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:07.599
It it is kind of wild how obsessed these people are with a multicultural democracy.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:13.519
Like they see they see everything through the lens of the post-war consensus.
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:18.880
They just see everything through that lens of we can't allow another Germany to come about.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.640
That's that's how they see everything.
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:25.519
And and the the thing I took most offense to is, of course, the fact that he said, well, you know, the church settled it.
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:40.000
It's like actually the the declaration in the Second Vatican Council about religious liberty is precisely one of the biggest sticking points, and the reason why you've got people creating a brouhahaha about it, because it directly contradicts quanticura.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:54.319
So if this was the year 1962 and he had come on Jeremy Borne's show, he would have had to say, Well, the church has settled it because Quantacura said religious liberty is an error, and if you disagree with that, you're anathematized.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.519
That's a heck of a lot more settled than whatever Vatican II was.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:06.000
So, but again, because the council now and he accepts it and he can go through that prison lane, now he thinks he's good.
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:12.480
It's like, no, no, the integralists actually have quite a few arguments against that because how do you reconcile those two?
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.079
He just completely glosses over this.
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.880
And I think that's partially why Shapiro recently said he likes Vatican II.
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.000
Of course he does.
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:20.799
Of course they do.
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:22.960
Uh, you got anything to jump in with there, AR?
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:33.359
Yeah, building off what Ryan said, that's what a lot of people don't appreciate, the authority by which the principle of religious freedom was condemned in Quanta Cura.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:40.160
If you look at that document, the language that Pope Pioint uses, that's promulgated in 1864.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:51.039
It satisfies the criteria outlined in Pastor Eternus, and then theologians contemporaneously universally witness to it being an infallible condemnation.
00:25:51.200 --> 00:26:03.680
And what he condemns in that is that the best condition of society is one where the state is neutral to all religions, it gives them equal rights, it doesn't establish penalties against violating Catholics' dogma.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:10.720
And it also condemns that freedom of conscience and worship is a right proper to every man.
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:34.319
And what you also see coming out with both Jeremy Boring and Patterson is that post-World War II ideology where no more is it one universal Catholic religion for all of mankind, still preserving the particularity of all the various nations, all the various races, all the various peoples, but they're all united by the supernatural religion.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:48.319
Rather, you mix up all the different people groups, you mix up all the different races and nations, and you have many different religions, more or less, but it's really this indifferentist, Masonic, dogmaless, humanitarian religion.
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:55.759
And so it is that complete inversion, and everything when it comes to politics for them is about maintaining that status quo.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:59.200
Well, and that's why they talk about human dignity because it's the brotherhood of man.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:26:59.680
Yes.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:52.400
Well, the to to even jump into that a little bit, like if you had if the the the church's stance on immigration, let's just say, like if you had uh a hierarchy in who was still had the main goal of converting souls, like we could okay, so like long-term, I'm talking, you could have a scenario where if we converted the pagan nations, we can convert the pagans in our nation, and like over time if if if you if you cut immigration off at this point and you stopped allowing people in and you got some of it out at least, at least at that point, if the church was focused on still converting the nations and not doing the Assisi meetings, we could say, okay, let's convert these pagans in our nation, and you could develop a new Catholic culture within America if America did convert.
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:59.279
But it's almost like we're not just fighting against guys like Jeremy Boring and this guy, we're fighting against our own hierarchy on this stuff.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:00.319
It's insane.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:02.240
Yeah, what was it?
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:06.640
No, the Nostrutate booster shot that we got most recently.
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.839
You can't even like talk to people of different faiths to try and convert them.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:13.119
So it's like okay, okay.
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.559
So let's jump to that, let's just let's jump to uh Ryan's next letter.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.519
Okay, I think we're ready here political authority.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:41.440
Uh and the uh and another thing is that often the things that they'll refer to are bad moments in the church.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:53.759
Like there's a a a bishop named Boniface the Eighth who wrote a um an epistle called Unum Sanctum, which establishes church a bishop, I'm pretty sure he meant to say Pope, right?
00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:03.200
Well, technically Bishop of Rome, but yeah, sort of uh uh indirect papal authority over all kingdoms.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:08.559
And he didn't do this because he was a theologian proclaiming good doctrine.
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:17.839
He proclaimed this because he was really mad at the king of France, and he's trying to get the king of France to stop taxing the church and to go on a crusade.
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:28.160
Uh, and the outcome of hit of Unum Sanctum is that the king of France, Philip the Fair, comes to Rome, kidnaps him, and then Boniface falls ill.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:44.799
Like I think he got beat up by French soldiers, but I have no historical proof of this, dies, and then you experience what's called the Babylonian captivity, in which there's uh the the French insist that the Pope has to be crowned over an Avignon in France, where they can keep an eye on him.
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:50.079
And then there's anti-popes in Germany, there's one, you know, and it's just this huge Middle Ages mess.
00:29:50.240 --> 00:30:00.799
Uh, and so the citation of a lot of these very obscure, I mean, there's very few people who pay attention to things like Unum Sanctum or Philip the Fair, they don't know who any of this is.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:07.279
But when you learn about the citations that they're using, the obscure citations, it's always like right before disaster, right?
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:13.599
It's almost like Christ knew in the gospels that maybe when the church makes these moves, nothing good happens.
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.160
This guy's Catholic.
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:17.279
That's blasphemy.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:18.160
That's blasphemy.
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.200
Did he not understand who the bad guy was in that story?
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:22.480
It was the king of France.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.119
Yes, he has no idea what he's talking about.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.000
There's little known document called Unum Sanctum.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:29.440
Uh, are you joking?
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:35.119
Yeah, he he makes it out as if Catholics aren't familiar with that document.
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:46.160
And we know from sacred scripture, Saint Paul in his epistle to the Romans, all authority comes from Almighty God, whether that's the authority of the Pope or also of civil rulers.
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:56.720
And so, of course, God is the author of both grace and nature, and you have those two societies you have the supernatural society of the Catholic Church, and you have the natural society of the state.
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.759
And they both have their authority being taken from Almighty God.
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:10.960
And so he's chafing at that idea that the last thing he wants, and he presents himself as a Catholic, is the harmonious union of church and state.
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.480
And it's not a theocracy, there's always a distinction between those two.
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.920
One is competent in its own sphere, the other is competent in the other.
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:21.519
But there's an awful lot of overlap and cooperation that needs to happen.
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:26.960
And for someone like Patterson, he just accepted a teaching position at Catholic University of America.
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:36.559
And my guess is that he is looking to find these good Catholic students that are there, mostly young Gen Z men, and he's trying to get them out.
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.119
So he is he is a problem.
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.880
What people need to understand is how the ancient world worked.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:47.039
There was no separation of religion and the state.
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:47.759
There was none.
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:51.039
Like the the Roman emperors were gods.
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.519
Yeah, like religion was a function of the state.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:32:02.319
There was no the only reason we have this whole idea of the secular and religious is because of the Catholic Church.
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:18.559
This is this is something the church begins to work out, and like really starts to really get worked out under Augustine, but this idea that like that where we are now of separation of church and state would have been preposterous to any other time in human history.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:27.359
The church is what made man civil, civil enough that like only a Christian culture could produce something like an atheist.
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:32.160
Like it was just there's no such thing as that in the ancient world.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:38.559
It's it's it's kind of enraging at how people are looking at what the church did as a negative.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.160
It civilized the world.
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:53.599
It's what made man go from a savage beast who and a barbarian who would just go in and rape and pillage to one who would accept having one wife instead of multiple wives and concubines.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:58.240
It's it really, uh, the way people think about the church, it's so insane to me.
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:05.039
Well, this is I think this is mostly from an American perspective, an American, like Reagan, quasi-libertarian perspective.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:06.319
They just they fear power.
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:08.640
I'm sorry, Rob's highlighting his comment.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.160
I'm putting him in another timeout.
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:13.519
I'm I'm so ocean.
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:15.839
I'm just gonna keep putting you in timeout, bud.
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:18.160
Well, he was ragging on me mostly.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.440
I didn't mind it.
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:21.599
Anthony's a little sensitive.
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.079
No, I'm I'm I'm done with Ocean.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:25.359
I've had it with him.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:26.400
Put him in timeout.
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:34.160
You go like my but um this is why couldn't this is why these conservatives always lose.
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.960
Because they don't know how to use any power at all.
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:39.519
In fact, they think power, all power is bad.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:46.240
Um, and then the other thing is he didn't mention any of the other times where the Pope wins these battles or the clergy wins these battles.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:55.680
We have a fantastic movie made about Henry II and when he killed a bishop, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and had to do penance in front of everybody for it.
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:03.920
Um, the other thing that's that's standing out to me is that I I can't believe how worried they are.
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.719
Look, you have we have to give Nick Fuentes credit, man.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.440
Like this kid, this kid is the reason they are terrified.
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:17.679
In the episode, he div he divorced Nick from this movement.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.920
I know he did, but they're worried about the groupers at the Catholic colleges, dude.
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.639
Like, I understand that he's trying to do that.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:34.639
They are they are very worried about it, but and then and then the other warning is guys like um JD Vance wearing this like a mask.
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:39.920
Like JD Vance is not really a Catholic integralist by any stretch of the imagination.
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:42.639
He can't he won't even baptize his own kids, yeah.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:54.800
So like the idea that like he's oh, the we have the elites in these positions, not yet, but there are some significant conversions to Catholicism, and it is kind of interesting, an interesting moment in time that we're in.
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:58.800
Here's a historical detail that might interest people.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:14.480
So I've looked into the the founding a good bit, and when the US Constitution was being considered for ratification, Protestants, sincere and religious Protestants, were outraged that it made no mention of God.
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:26.559
It completely omitted his name because even Protestants they rebelled against the Catholic Church and her authority, and they always understood the importance of having an established state religion.
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:30.480
They understood that the state had obligations to, in their mind, the church.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:32.000
They understood that in principle.
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:38.320
So even at the time the Constitution was promulgated, they understood that as scandalous.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.880
And many of them wrote pamphlets decrying it, and they called it a godless constitution.
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:48.960
But that's what American Catholics don't understand because our country has always been unconverted.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:54.000
We've never actually lived in a truly Christian country, which is to say a Catholic country.
00:35:54.159 --> 00:36:07.519
And so they just think that it's completely normal that the Catholic Church doesn't have special privileges, that the Catholic Church doesn't have special protection, which is exactly what Pope Leo XIII taught in 1895 in La Jinqua.
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:16.239
He said, you shouldn't view this arrangement between church and state in your country as the ideal or as lawful and expedient in all circumstances.
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:16.880
It's not.
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:24.480
It's objective, yes, it's it's a toleration as of an evil, it's a toleration of an evil to prevent an even greater evil.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:30.880
And so, in that sense, in that very narrow sense, yes, it's a good thing that the Catholic Church isn't being actively persecuted.
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:37.280
But in another sense, you're equating the rights of the Catholic Church with all those of the false religion.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:39.360
That's that's objectively wrong.
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:45.760
And so that's why you have to work to convert your country and by way of the government and public institutions.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:56.320
In some ways, I the fact that we've never been a true Christian country, though, is part of the reason why I think our chastisement won't be as severe as Europe's.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:01.280
Like Europe was a truly Catholic nation that turned their back on their God.
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.800
Like you can't separate Christendom from Europe.
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:09.039
Like Christendom is Europe, Europe is what was formed through Christendom.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:19.119
So the fact that they are no longer like uh the fact that they no longer have Christ as king is why their punishment is going to be so severe.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.800
Yes, and what's unique about them is that they're apostasizing because they previously were converted.
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:31.840
You had all the Catholic states, whereas we have always just had this indifferent Masonic government, this naturalistic government.
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:33.760
So I I do tend to agree with that.
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:34.639
Yeah.
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:39.199
Um, all right, you got the the third clip, which you said is one of the one of the better ones, Ryan.
00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:40.960
In my opinion, yeah.
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:48.480
What all these three countries have in common now is that they have some of the lowest religiosity.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.360
Ireland is held up by old people.
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:51.760
Yeah.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:38:00.559
But if you if you remove old people and just look at younger people, they are some of the most like militantly secular people.
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:08.000
And it's because the establishment of this Catholic Church meant that it was implicated in all the terrible decisions of the country.
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.320
And in Spain, intentionally so.
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:18.239
And so if you oppose Franco, if you oppose the government in Ireland or Quebec, then you oppose the child necessarily oppose the Catholic Church.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:25.119
And so people disaffiliate, or you know, um, in some other countries, especially in Latin America, they become Protestant, right?
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:35.199
Like, um, because uh if you if you favor freedom uh uh from a corrupt regime and the and the Catholic Church supports it, then you just go be Protestant.
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:39.280
So you can be in political alignment with your all uh uh more broadly.
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.760
So this is the thing that happens so often is that these efforts to create these confessional states backfire.
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:54.079
Everything that he just said was a complete lie, and the total inverse.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:07.119
So I so so the question that was posed to that, and I didn't want to get the context as it'd be too long of a clip, was that he makes this distinction that integralism is a new thing, and it's only been tried three times.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:16.480
So he basically discounts all of Christendom just so that he and he says there's only been three Quebec, Ireland, and Spain.
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:20.639
So this to me was just like worm on a hook.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:31.360
I'll tell you exactly what happened in these countries, and I'll show you exactly why it was the Second Vatican Council and not the integralism, which is also the weird thing.
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:33.119
The argument defeats itself.
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:36.320
He says that once they abandoned integralism, everybody left.
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:39.119
Well, then doesn't that favor integralism?
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:41.280
But it's not true.
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.599
So in Spain, in the 1950s, weekly mass attendance was 75%.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.119
In 1973, it was 68%.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:52.400
You knew you couldn't have TLM Ryan on without hearing numbers.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:54.880
This is great.
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:55.440
This is great.
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:56.079
Watch this.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:05.599
Watch in five years, it goes from 68% weekly mass attendance to 40% by 1978.
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.719
And Spain was still Catholic in 1978.
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:11.280
That's when Franco That's when he Franco died.
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:12.159
Yeah.
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.039
Okay, so it has nothing to do with any of that.
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:16.559
Do you know what they're at now?
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:17.679
12%.
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:20.320
Oh, I would I was gonna guess higher.
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:21.920
Wow, it's that bad, huh?
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:23.199
Now watch what happens.
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:29.840
The Irish are odd, but they actually weren't impacted by either shirking off integralism nor the council.
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:32.239
This is uh they are the one anomaly.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:36.800
So 90% mass attendance at the promulgation of the council.
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.599
In 1990, they're still at uh 80%.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:47.440
Divorce is so in 1973, they say they're no longer Catholic, but they maintain high levels of participation.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:55.599
Divorce is legalized in 95, and then 10 years later, weekly mass attendance plummets to 46 percent.
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.519
Today it's 30 percent, which is slightly higher than us in America.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:01.519
That's the weird thing, is it oh, integralism?
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:02.480
It kills these things.
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:04.239
These countries are worse.
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.639
You know why you know why Ireland's an anomaly?
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.760
Because they were at war with England.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:13.519
Like you like after the council, they're still like fighting.
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.519
That's when you get the IRA and stuff, right, Robert?
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:16.000
Yeah.
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:22.239
Now Quebec is their Catholic identity because they're they're like an outside force.
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:34.719
Yeah, maybe the church blossoms under persecution, so it's like you had a very strong Catholic versus Protestant dynamic going on there, so that's that's why Ireland doesn't drop off the cliff immediately after the council.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:43.440
Like everyone I talked, I talked to somebody about it who did a lot of work over there during those times, and his opinion was that it was once the pharmaceutical money came in.
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:45.679
But I don't know.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:50.079
So Quebec's interesting though, it shows the same thing, it shows the council.
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:57.599
88% mass attendance in 1950, 85% in the 1960s, 65% in the 1970s.
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:05.199
So it drops 20% after the council, and they uh they abandon all of their Catholic schools to secular teachers.
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:05.519
Yeah.
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:06.639
So I mean, I don't know.
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:09.280
That was one of the that was one of the biggest issues.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:15.840
Uh, what happened with like the landlakes uh incident and the the Catholic education?
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:23.119
Like we had we had the means to indoctrinate the next generation and we just hand it away.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:30.559
Like they it was something like 60 or 70 percent of all students were in Catholic schools during the time, and the church just dropped the ball completely.
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:35.119
Do you want to know what the percent is today of people who attend mass in Quebec weekly?
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:37.519
It's probably worse than Spain, that's for sure.
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.599
Eight, eight worse.
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.159
Oh my god, two percent.
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:49.199
Two percent to the point where during like World War II, the Pope was going to escape to Canada.
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:52.079
It's a mass apostasy, man.
00:42:52.159 --> 00:43:02.400
Like I have to play spoiler here, and recently, you know, I've been going a little bit after Bishop Sheen, but Franco, everyone loves the Franco Friday edits, and I love them too.
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:20.559
But the problem is actually with the council, he did capitulate because previously Spain had a Catholic confessional state, and he got leaned on by Paul VI, and he granted Protestants and Jews religious freedom in 1965 because of the force of dignitatus humane.
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:22.960
So that was kind of the beginning of the end for them.
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:25.679
But they actually had a strict Catholic confessional state.
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:30.320
Cardinal Alfredo Otaviani, then the head of the holy office, he praised it.
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.239
It was in line with Catholic principles.
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:38.239
But just like Ryan was documenting, you saw with the council the sharp decline in all of these metrics.
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:47.599
And what's really sad is that in the early 20th century and leading up to the council in America, you had so many people converting to the Catholic Church.
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.800
Something like 40% of America was Catholic at that point.
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.679
Now it was superficial in that they were very recent.
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:59.760
We didn't really have this Catholic culture or roots, but I think there was a real potential for the country itself to be.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.079
Overcome by Catholicism.
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.440
And like Anthony said, we could have indoctrinated in a in a good way into the way.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:08.880
We would have been.
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:13.760
I ran the metrics, we would have been 30% of the country by now if it hadn't been for the council.
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:15.920
People people think indoctrination's bad.
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.320
Like we had like ministers of propaganda, like for the church forever, you know.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.159
Like indoctrination was it's good.
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:24.639
If you're indoctrinating people the right way, it's good.
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:25.440
With the truth.
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.880
We want to teach people what to think, not how to think.
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:31.599
If you look at the word itself, you're just teaching them doctrine.
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:32.800
That's all it means.
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:44.320
But American Reform, I found your comment interesting based on when Franco kind of you know followed the Pope into that foolhardy ecumenical step.
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.239
It doesn't seem to have killed the church at that point, which is what that guy was saying.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:50.480
It was when the new mass was rolled out.
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:54.000
Because that's what that's where the friction meets with the laity.
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:59.199
That's when you a literally a uh 28% drop.
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:05.199
Um, Spain definitely indoctrinated um the Americas for sure.
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:13.280
I mean it was all the Spanish freaking uh uh my brain's fried.
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:18.239
Yeah, like the the the the the Americas, Spain, the new world, yeah.
00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:26.079
The Spanish prior like the new world was completely transformed by the Spanish, the Spanish, especially during that time, and the Philippines, yes.
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:36.480
Everyone needs to go read Liberalism is a Sin by Father Felix Isarda y Salvani, he's a great Spanish integralist counter-revolutionary, so go read that.
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.159
Sure, you guys are familiar with that.
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:46.239
Um, you want to get to that last clip, Ryan anti-Semitism problem in the Catholic Church.
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:47.199
Yes.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.679
Uh, and it's old, it's been a problem for a very long time.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:58.400
You'll often see people quoting like church fathers from the early years of the you know, like 500s.
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:00.079
They'll talk like John Christendom.
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:03.440
Um and doesn't even know the guy's name.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.840
Christendom.
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:07.519
This is a Catholic professor.
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.039
Are you joking me?
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:13.920
Uh, it's that line from scripture, surely not idle word, right?
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:19.679
Like, you know, uh, I'm not the reason for the crucify uh the crucifixion.
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:25.039
I would not have yelled, away with him, away with him, crucify him, crucify him.
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:26.159
They would do it, right?
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:27.599
It was the Jews, right?
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:29.599
I'm not I'm not the bearer of this end.
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:32.719
And it's like, yeah, you are, right?
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:37.360
But this it this this instinct has been part of Christianity for a long time.
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.199
I mean, Martin Luther had this problem, right?
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:43.920
And his in his writing, uh, he he spends a lot of time talking about the Jews.
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:53.440
So it is uh not just Catholic, but it it in the Catholic Church, it was also a way of explaining something that happened in the 19th century.
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:55.039
I got at this a little bit earlier.
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:59.360
I didn't want to talk about too much because I don't want to sound like I'm rehearsing a conspiracy theory.
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:11.760
But the downside to these uh this like embrace of the sacral monarchy of like Louis IX is that if these regimes are perfect, why do they fall apart?
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.880
No one says they're perfect, and the answer can't be that Louis IX.
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:16.719
We'll get back to the rest of it.
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:17.199
Hang on.
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:33.599
Nobody says they're perfect, first off, but they fall apart because of revolutionaries, like they fall apart because of infiltrators, and from like you from Saint Louis to the French Revolution is a longer period of time of that monarchy holding it together than America's even existed.
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:36.719
Yeah, this guy doesn't know anything.
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:51.039
But they and he draws that yeah, god no, he draws the false dichotomy there, where obviously our Lord is on the cross because of our own sins, but the Jews also have a special and unique responsibility in his passion.
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:55.119
And to this day, the unconverted Jews are laboring under this curse.
00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:01.280
So he trots out this false dichotomy and he tries to make it seem like we're denying that and our own culpability.
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:19.440
That's not the case, but the Jews themselves have this special corporately speaking responsibility, and Christian princes and the Catholic Church has always designed special legislation for them, not only to protect them, but also most importantly to protect our societies from their influence.
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:26.880
And that is what he is deeply uncomfortable with, and he wants to oppose that, even though that's Catholic legislation.
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:31.119
I mean, it's it's one of the threads running from Genesis to Revelation, right?
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:39.119
Like, like if you if you deny that the Jews in particular had a special role in Christ's crucifixion, you might as well deny the entire faith.
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:42.800
Well, it's scripture itself, yes, yeah.
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:49.039
Like he all he does is pick on saints and cite Vatican II.
00:48:49.920 --> 00:49:03.840
It's just well, the the thing is, uh, because I even grew up like this too, and it took until like the past couple of years for me to realize the Jews aren't just like every other religion, they're not even like they're not even like Muslims, you know what I mean?
00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:12.639
Like m Muslims are very anti-Christian, but there's something very unique about Jews in that they uh by definition they are anti-Christ.
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:17.039
Like they are the ones who reject the Messiah, they are the ones who crucify him.
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:41.840
And to allow them into your society, it it's in their, it's it's in their DNA to try to undo Christian society because of that past 2,000-year history that we claim the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob bestowed the blessing upon us, and God's name was praised throughout the earth.
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:47.119
The promises that were given to them were given to us, and it infuriates them.
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:51.039
So they have a mission to undermine Christian society.
00:49:51.199 --> 00:50:09.679
And it's like if you don't understand that, you are underestimating your enemy so much, and that's actually what's happened since the council in reality is the church has dropped her guard on the main enemy of the church, and it's allowed their it's a it's allowed worldwide Jewelry.
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:36.960
It has, and and that's where they actually have this very strong racial conception of their religion that is post-Christian Judaism, which is a blasphemous rejection of Jesus Christ, because they think uniquely they remain God's chosen people in spite of their infidelity, and they don't have this universal religion like we have as Catholics, it's just for them, and it's this racial conception of religion, this chosenness, this extreme racial pride.
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:45.840
And that's why they want to be in positions of power ultimately, and that's why it's actually not crazy at all to see this grand Jewish conspiracy.
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:54.960
It's right there in our Catholic theology to see the opposition between true Israel, which is the Catholic Church, and false carnal Israel, which is the synagogue.
00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:57.920
And obviously, there's going to be that theological enmity.
00:50:58.079 --> 00:50:59.440
You guys have always covered this.
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:07.840
This is great, but there's going to be that theological enmity until the very end of the world, when that eventual corporate conversion takes place, but no sooner.
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.559
There will always be that enmity, and we have to see them as enemies up until that very point.
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:16.960
Only when they convert do they become a true child of Israel.
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:23.760
Well, and I mean theologically, they view Christianity, specifically Catholicism, as the enemy.
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:31.440
So it does you, it does you no good to simply give the enemy all the initiative by saying, Well, I'm just not going to play the game anymore.
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:33.199
Well, he's still playing the game.
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:35.039
I saw a tweet today.
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:49.280
Uh, German Catholic theologian and priest Oliver Winserk Winzek has published an op-ed arguing that Islam can be understood as an alternative form of Byzantine Christianity and that Muslims should be viewed as Christians' younger brothers.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:54.800
Uh, he rejects portraying Islam as a political ideology incompatible with Germany's constitution.
00:51:55.039 --> 00:52:13.920
It it is actually just a confirmation of my position that the modern hierarchy and all of them they are trying to fulfill the scriptures on a carnal level by uniting the older brother Jews and the younger brother Muslims in a carnal way instead of bringing them into the new covenant.
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:18.880
And it's the same thing the Jews do when they read the scriptures, they want to rule the nations with an iron rod.
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:25.280
It's it's like every single thing we've talked about on this show just seems to be happening.
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:37.840
It does always come back to that, and I don't think there's any getting away with it, but they use the word anti-Semitism to intimidate people morally, and it's equivocal.
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:42.400
It has many different meanings associated with it, and they know that it's hyperelastic.
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:49.599
And so as soon as that word is trotted out, Christians lose all their courage and we're no longer willing to assert our own rights.
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:54.960
And they have been successful ever since World War II and all the mythology that goes along with that.
00:52:55.119 --> 00:53:01.440
They have used that word, that word, racism, homophobia, sexism, all these kinds of taboos.
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:07.280
These words have completely eroded our pre not in America, but Catholic civilization.
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:11.039
Those words alone and what they do.
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:12.960
It's just so pernicious.
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:23.280
It's a it's a twisting of it's it's like adding poison to the the good Catholic uh intuition to show empathy, right?
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:30.800
Like like it is good to uh to show empathy towards somebody who's suffering or to look out for the downtrodden.
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:36.719
Like that is actually something that is unique to Christianity, to to care for the the person who's suffering.
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:46.559
And they've twisted it in such a way to make Christians defend the most perverse behavior, homophobia, sodomy.
00:53:46.639 --> 00:54:03.599
Like they made they twisted that Christian impulse with such a poison to get people who would otherwise just be good people to oh, it's not and and the whole idea of don't judge others, it's so toxic and it has completely undermined Christian civilization.
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:08.320
Well, the the common thread here in all of this is human dignity.
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:15.760
Like if you elevate the human being above God, nothing he does can be challenged.
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:18.000
And it's getting worse.
00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:19.599
Like you look at it, you know.
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:28.079
Well, and the funny thing is, it's the only human dignity that actually is violated comes from the Ten Commandments, like, oh, I don't know, murdering your children.
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:30.880
So it's completely unless you have postpartum psychosis.
00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:31.360
Right.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:35.039
It's it it's just been completely flipped upside down.
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:40.480
Um, so to challenge a person's religious beliefs is no, dude, it's so bad.
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:46.320
Like to the point where Lila Rose today is tweeting out that that psychopath that robbed all the money should be let free.
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:46.800
What was it?
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:47.280
What's her name?
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:48.239
Elizabeth Holmes.
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:52.159
Elizabeth Holmes, Lila Rose says she should be home with her children.
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:54.880
Like, you should be home with your children, first off.
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:59.280
And at the beatification of Bishop Sheen while your husband stays home and plays mom.
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:01.199
Like you should be home with your children.
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:10.159
But besides that, this insane idea that women can do no wrong, like feminism has intoxicated these people, they're so sick.
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:18.480
Lila Rose really like I don't know, that woman everybody got mad at me when I first started speaking out about her.
00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:21.840
Like a lot, a lot of normies were like, Why are you going against Lila Rose?
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:22.960
She's a pro-life leader.
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:27.440
It's like, can you people not see this woman as a feminist through and through?
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:33.760
She she would never defend um like that's like saying Bernie Madoff should be home with his children.
00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:34.800
It's the same thing.
00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:35.599
Bernie Madoff.
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:37.119
Jordan Belfort, yeah.
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:40.000
Yeah, it's this idea is so insane.
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.599
Um, all right, listen, we do have to cut this one off.
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:47.519
I know everybody wants to do locals tonight.
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:48.559
We have to cut this one short.
00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:50.719
You guys have final thoughts before we do, though?
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:52.960
I'll let AR go.
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:55.760
Thank you again for having me on.
00:55:55.920 --> 00:56:00.480
Next month, I hope to be Steve Day, so doxing next month.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:01.679
So, God willing.
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:05.840
Um, hopefully I can come back on the program and we can keep talking about these things.
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:12.960
But yeah, if anyone is interested in what I'm doing, we're at Integrity Magazine and also the Journal of American Reform.
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:16.719
But this was a really great discussion, and I hope we have more like this in the future.
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:19.360
Should we make your first docs episode on race?
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:23.039
That's that's fine with me.
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:23.760
That's fine with me.
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:24.159
That's something.
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:26.000
Let's do it, man.
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:26.719
Let's just do it.
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:28.320
Let's do um Molly.
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:30.239
I have to get up at 1 30 in the morning.
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:30.880
So I'm not.
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:35.119
I mean, if you guys want to continue, you can, but I have to try and get if I don't get at least four hours of sleep.
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:37.679
Um I got sick kids, so I'm gonna go take care of them.
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:42.800
Yeah, Rob wasn't even going to actually join tonight, and I kind of talked him into it because I needed him to help me with the videos and stuff.
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:45.760
So he's heard me say Vatican II one too many times.
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:49.280
He's gonna I I saw the enmity counter.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:50.559
That's I'm guilty for that.
00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:53.760
I don't even care anymore.
00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:54.960
Uh Brian, how about you?
00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:55.920
You got closing thoughts?
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:58.880
Uh well, I just want to say thank thanks uh to both of you.
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:02.880
It's actually been a year anniversary since I first popped on this show.
00:57:03.039 --> 00:57:06.559
You guys had 40,000 followers and look at you now.
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:09.119
So um thanks for having me back on.
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:15.920
Um, yeah, I would I would say to anybody listening, like, if you want to go watch that that episode, it is painful.
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:19.039
But it really what your first episode with us?
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:19.519
No.
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.480
Oh, that's the oh, I thought you meant because you just mentioned your like when you first came on with us.
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:25.920
Yeah, no, the debate.
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:31.199
Yeah, yeah, that that uh that debate was rough in the beginning, and then we we had fun with it in the end, though.
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:33.760
But no, yeah, this Jeremy Boring episode, man.
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:34.639
Oh my goodness.
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:59.519
I think I think we played the most relevant clip so you guys don't have to go back and uh be tortured by it, but that's just uh my final thought there is just that's the the more I've noticed this, the more you drink from the conciliar Kool-Aid, it's almost like not only do you hate and feel apologetic for everything that came before, which it's like, then why I don't understand why are you here?
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:02.239
But I I feel like it dulls the senses.
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:13.920
Like people who are only citing the council, it seems like they just they don't do their research, they don't know history, which is what we kind of tried to demonstrate here today, I think.
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:19.920
So um, anyways, in the in the spirit of that, you can find me over at pre-Consiliar Radio.
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:24.559
Um, because I uh I take issue with some of the conciliar stuff, as you can see.
00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:26.000
But thanks for having me on.
00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:28.000
Yeah, guys, thanks for coming on, man.
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:31.199
I wish I did have the other hour because I would I would have you know had a bunch of stuff.
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:33.599
We could have just done some cultural commentary on the other side.
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:38.880
But uh maybe Tuesday we'll do an extra long uh maybe we'll just do locals Tuesday or something.
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:39.199
I don't know.
00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:40.559
We'll we'll make it up to you guys.
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:41.840
I have to get some sleep.
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:43.599
I have to get up in five hours.
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:44.880
So guys, thank you.
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:46.239
I think this is a really good episode, man.
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:47.840
I think we covered some really good stuff.
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:51.199
Uh if you guys are still watching, like, share, subscribe.
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:58.159
Uh oh, before we go, uh nicknacks.com, go to nicknacks, use code avoidingbabylon.
00:58:58.239 --> 00:58:58.880
Oh no, it's good.
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:09.679
Use code AB25% for 25% off your first purchase, use code AB10 for 10% off all subsequent purchases, and also go to blackmonkrosary.com, get your black monk rosary.
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:13.199
They are both a spiritual weapon and a physical weapon.
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:18.880
If somebody tries to approach you and you're in a no-carry state, these are definitely your second best defense.
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:21.119
They weigh about nine pounds of steel.
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:22.000
So go.
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:27.199
Knicksnacks were the only way Ryan was able to get through uh watching the whole uh Jeremy Boring episode.
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:30.320
They got me through my day in Borough Park today.
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:33.199
We'll talk, we'll talk about Borough Park on the next locals episode.
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:34.000
Holy cow, man.
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:34.480
I can't wait.
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:35.199
Oh boy.
00:59:35.920 --> 01:00:01.119
So all right, take us out, Robert.