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Join hosts Justin Knipper and Fumi Saito on the final episode of their mini-series exploring the rich history of Joshi Pro Wrestling, or women's wrestling, in Japan. In this episode, they delve into the legendary 1993 Dream Slam match between Akira Hokuto and Shinobu Kandori, a pivotal event that marked the peak of the women's wrestling boom in Japan.
Discover the intense rivalries between iconic groups like All Japan Women, LLPW, and JWP during the early 90s. The episode also covers the return of wrestling legends Chigusa Nagayo and Lioness Asuka, and the launch of Gaia Japan, a new wrestling promotion that further enriched the women's wrestling scene.
The discussion takes a deep dive into the eventual decline of All Japan Women and its transformation into several splinter groups, including Arsion, NEO Ladies, and Stardom. The hosts also address the challenges faced during the "dark ages" of Joshi Pro Wrestling and the subsequent revival leading into the modern era.
Through this comprehensive exploration, listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the evolution of women's wrestling in Japan, its cultural impact, and the enduring legacy of its pioneering figures.
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Music.
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information. You'll have the option to receive a one-time auto-dial text from iHeartMedia.
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from L.L. Bean to make your next trip the best yet.
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visit youtube.com slash LL Bean.
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LL Bean, be an outsider.
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Write that, write that down for me, Saito. Write that down for me, Saito.
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Music.
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Hi everyone, welcome back to Write That Down. I'm one of your hosts, Justin Nipper.
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I edit for fightgamemedia.com and I'm a staff writer at F4WOnlineWrestlingObserver.com.
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I am back with Japan's leading pro wrestling author, historian,
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sociologist, and broadcast journalist, Mr.
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Fumi Saito Alright, welcome to the final episode of our mini-series on the history
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of Joshi Pro Wrestling Women's Wrestling in Japan Part 3, this is Part 3.
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Today on this episode we spend a lot of time We spend
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time up front especially talking about Akira Hokuto and Shinobi Kondori's
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legendary historic match 1993 dream
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slam um we spoke
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about that plus the extended
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rivalry between all japan women and llpw we
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also talked about groups like llpw jwp
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uh the women's group at fmw in
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the early 90s uh later on the episode we
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definitely spoke about we spent
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some time talking about chigisunageo's come back to pro
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wrestling as well as linus oska's come back in 1994
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and 1995 the launch of gaia
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japan we spoke about gaia girls the
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documentary which you i mentioned it on
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the episode but you can easily find it on
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youtube or daily motion or some sort of open source video website uh if you
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are interested in that documentary uh what else do we talk about on this final
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episode and we spent time talking about the the fallout of all japan women in um when it eventually.
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Finished but also uh morphed into a number of splinter groups that came out
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of it groups like arcyon neo new ladies oz academy later stardom.
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Wave sendai girls these days said seedling um
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we talked about the dark ages for joji pro wrestling as
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well and from there we led our
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discussion into the modern era of joji pro wrestling and there are a
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lot of topics that i'm sure we couldn't hit so this is a general history uh
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despite you know three episodes we gave you there's we're gonna have to hit
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on certain topics and certain figures in the future in, you know,
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solo series, showcase series that we do.
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We focused on one wrestler, one tag team.
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So if there is something that we had to leave out that you are interested in,
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just hit us up on Twitter, hit us up via Patreon.
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We'll try to get to it. There's lots and lots to get to, so don't you worry.
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All right, if you haven't already, please subscribe to the
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fight game media network podcast feed on spotify on
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apple stitch or downcast wherever you listen
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to your podcast it does help out a ton and also
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i have a book out right now a digital ebook thing
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about bob it's on the amazon you can buy
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it for your kindle it's called stronger than all it's a digital match guide
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to every single new japan strong match for the first two years of the show's
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existence um there is a sale going on this month too if you can buy it for just
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2.99 us dollars all right that's enough let's get right into joshu pro wrestling,
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the history of joshu pro wrestling our final episode part three.
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Music.
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And yeah, the very first in a promotional match starting from All Japan Women
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against FMW Women in November of 92.
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But the first very, very famous one being April 2nd, 1993, Yokohama Arena,
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where the match lasted all the way to like 1245 at night.
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Everybody missed their last train. And most of them missed the train and became a legend. Yeah. Yeah.
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Can you imagine? Actually, you know, the wrestling match lasted that long, but people decided.
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And Yokohama Arena is in Shin Yokohama. So you basically have to take bullet
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train one stop to get there, you know.
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And the bullet train runs, you know, even regular train and the subway usually
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runs to like 1 o'clock in the morning.
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But the bullet train stops running like 10.30, you know.
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And uh yeah they decided to stay and then
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you know they didn't think about what's going to happen after the show and then
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it's becoming like almost like a local legend that
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people run into each other middle of the night
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wandering around you know just to find a local bar or izakaya or someplace where
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they can i can you can actually walk in and spend time until the very first
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you know train in the morning a lot of life some people friendship started that
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night i guess yeah Yeah, that night.
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And some people went into 7-Eleven or Lawson's for English-speaking world.
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The Japanese 7-Elevens and Lawson's love them. They sell beer,
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liquor. Did you notice that? That's right. When you were here?
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Yeah. So they picked up six cans of beer and went to the park to sit.
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And I don't know how warm that was in April of 1993. It was pretty cold.
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Yeah. Yeah, and they decided to spend the night at the park drinking canned
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beer and talk wrestling even more.
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It was a great time. They became like a legend that night after the Yokohama Arena show.
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We, you know, yeah, yeah, spend the night outside until the first train in the morning.
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And they were happy to do so. But that was the very beginning of the peak era
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of this inter-promotion, superstar against superstar, supercar.
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Kohama Arena especially, that was the night Akira Hokuto became larger than
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life superstar beating Shinobu Kandori of LLPW.
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Shinobu Kandori was a star, but not like an idol superstar.
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But the star in that, she was a world champion judo, judoka, amateur rank.
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And how far can you go as a judo champion, right?
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And becoming instructor or sensei somewhere or teach high school in the gym class or,
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just be a judo person the rest of your life and you probably won't be making
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that much money you know and kandori wanted to pursue something professionally
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in a profession as an athlete and.
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Shandori was one of those people that wandered into the wrestling world much
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like now we are Ogawa later on. Yeah.
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Or the little bit like a Brock Lesnar for that matter. Yeah.
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Yeah. But Ronda Rousey was wrestling fan. She, yeah, she, she admits that,
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you know what I'm saying?
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Ronda Rousey was a great Olympic judo and also went to UFC, you know,
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like a real fight, but it wasn't like step down for Ronda Rousey to become professional
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wrestler because she was lifelong wrestling fan.
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And also that she admits that she was a Rowley Piper fan and also that she studied
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under judo Jean LaBelle.
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Jean LaBelle also trained Rowley Piper, so there was a connection.
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That's why she has this Rowley T-shirt and kilt skirt and a black leather jacket she inherited.
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And there's a nice, warm wrestling story to it, right?
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I mean, for Ronda Rousey's case, but Shinobu Kandri admits that herself.
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She never watched wrestling as a kid, you know, but this is what she wants to do to make money.
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You know, so there's like a mixed bag feeling that they're right.
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This legitimate tough woman should go into this business, you know, and improve something.
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Or some people resent that. Yeah, she's in there just to make money, you know, something.
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But the common understanding was that this woman, Shinobu Kandori is legitimate tough woman.
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Then in a single match against Akira Hokuto oh my gosh this is going to be very
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interesting right and in today's world it's a double juice you know both women
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played you know and at the end that the Northern Light power bomb that the Northern
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Light you know like a brain buster thing that Akira Hokuto pinned.
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Shinobu Kandori very convincingly and it was a sensational match and that was
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like that really sped this boom period, the peak era that let's come back and
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watch more women's wrestling.
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Because this year, Yokohama Arena show, that drew 18,000 plus fans.
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And a lot of these male fans, it was their first women's match live.
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You know, they attended the big show.
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So there's, you know, right, let's come back for a more live show, you know.
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And that year alone, all Japan women had, you know, Osaka Fritz,
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Budokan, you know, Nippon Budokan and Nagoya, you know,
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Rainbow Nagoya Hall show that the Tokyo Bay NK Hall.
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That's a nice 10,000 people audience building that's right next to Tokyo Disneyland but that building,
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Tokyo Bay NK Hall it's not there anymore but for about 10 year period a lot
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of the big show was held at the Tokyo Bay NK Hall right next to Tokyo Disneyland that's another,
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well useless trivia and end of this December 93 they finally came back to Sumo Arena Sumo Palace,
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yeah some more palace
00:11:15.574 --> 00:11:19.574
you know didn't they hadn't had that similar power show since crash
00:11:19.574 --> 00:11:22.754
girls era so that was symbolic and i
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think listeners that might be a little younger need
00:11:25.714 --> 00:11:28.774
to also recognize that at this time
00:11:28.774 --> 00:11:34.534
there wasn't such a thing as mma quite yet it wasn't nope nope not yet we were
00:11:34.534 --> 00:11:39.494
talking about rousey earlier ronda rousey had the option she she went into ufc
00:11:39.494 --> 00:11:43.154
and MMA first because she had that option because it had already established
00:11:43.154 --> 00:11:46.394
itself as a business by the time she started while Kandori,
00:11:46.634 --> 00:11:49.914
probably I would say it's safe to say she would have done something similar.
00:11:52.094 --> 00:11:56.934
Kandori, she would have done that, right, right, I think so in Japan you had
00:11:56.934 --> 00:12:02.134
to wait till late 90s, right Shinobu Kandori debuted 86,
00:12:02.434 --> 00:12:05.194
yeah so she and others that
00:12:05.194 --> 00:12:08.754
wrestled like her were ahead of their time and along
00:12:08.754 --> 00:12:12.394
with the the uwf groups and all the
00:12:12.394 --> 00:12:15.294
shooters this slightly different
00:12:15.294 --> 00:12:18.674
era right right so they in pro wrestling
00:12:18.674 --> 00:12:21.914
terms and pro wrestling context it was it had
00:12:21.914 --> 00:12:25.674
a different flavor than it would now it could only have happened then
00:12:25.674 --> 00:12:28.634
in the 90s because and that's also what
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gave it that uh that intensity and that
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a lot there was a lot of fire between hokuto
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and kandori in that match it was really like a precursor to
00:12:37.814 --> 00:12:40.714
the uwf excuse me uwfi new
00:12:40.714 --> 00:12:43.574
japan feud a couple years later where
00:12:43.574 --> 00:12:47.474
they seem like it pro wrestling versus shoot
00:12:47.474 --> 00:12:51.234
fighting mixed martial arts whatever you want to call it right not
00:12:51.234 --> 00:12:58.894
quite mma yet but not pro wrestling either or not yeah yeah so and and people
00:12:58.894 --> 00:13:04.174
it's progressing but not fully grew out of you know the traditional pro wrestling
00:13:04.174 --> 00:13:09.134
flavor either but But the wrestling fans enjoy that, though, because, you know.
00:13:09.894 --> 00:13:15.194
Like you and the same in America or Japan, the wrestling fans generally grew
00:13:15.194 --> 00:13:19.474
up being told that wrestling is fake, wrestling is bad, you know,
00:13:19.614 --> 00:13:24.254
and whomever loved wrestling so much as a kid, you know, they tell you in your neighborhood,
00:13:24.474 --> 00:13:28.094
some uncle or the school teacher, your homeroom teacher will tell you.
00:13:29.288 --> 00:13:34.588
Oh, the wrestling. You know, so we have same stigma, you know?
00:13:34.948 --> 00:13:40.348
So there's a time that they proved, look, watch this match. You call it fake? Huh? Right?
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So wrestling fans always have to, like, almost defend themselves, defend myself. Yeah.
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And I think a lot of those wrestlers from that time were the heroes of the people
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who felt that way. Like Sayama.
00:13:56.628 --> 00:14:01.808
Yeah, but a lot of them, like, you know. Satoru Sayama himself that created
00:14:01.808 --> 00:14:06.568
Shuto, a complete MMA genre.
00:14:07.148 --> 00:14:12.948
UWF, then into Fujiwara Gumi, then Funaki and Minoru Suzuki ended up starting Pancras.
00:14:13.188 --> 00:14:18.368
And Pancras ended up being complete MMA today. You know, nothing to do with pro wrestling anymore.
00:14:18.788 --> 00:14:21.608
This is interesting, you know, history piece there.
00:14:21.768 --> 00:14:27.688
But anyhow, yeah, different path. Some people like Nobuhiko Takada joined with
00:14:27.688 --> 00:14:30.328
MMA and never were able to come back.
00:14:30.448 --> 00:14:33.868
You know, I wish they did. But, you know what I'm saying?
00:14:34.368 --> 00:14:39.788
Well, he's more like a TV personality these days. He's not really much of a fighter. Oh, yeah.
00:14:41.708 --> 00:14:46.468
Retired. And Nobuhiko Takada, in his case, he doesn't mingle with wrestling
00:14:46.468 --> 00:14:49.548
people anymore. No, he's like, you know, he's a talent. Yeah.
00:14:50.462 --> 00:14:57.662
Yeah, yeah, definitely talent. Just the other day, I happened to switch channel,
00:14:57.802 --> 00:14:59.902
and then I saw him as a detective or something.
00:15:00.862 --> 00:15:07.342
Yeah. Yeah, he's transitioned to the post-wrestling life, like some wrestlers
00:15:07.342 --> 00:15:09.402
over here do too, John Cena or The Rock.
00:15:10.302 --> 00:15:15.702
Right. Like Riki Choshu, and yeah, yeah, right. That's fine. That's fine with me.
00:15:15.862 --> 00:15:21.242
But back to women's wrestling, this 1993, April 2nd, Yokohama Arena show was
00:15:21.242 --> 00:15:23.142
a big landmark, you know, landmark, I think.
00:15:23.342 --> 00:15:27.662
And that year alone, they had a lot of, you know, huge shows,
00:15:27.682 --> 00:15:33.002
like almost every month, every month, you know, the Budokan this month and Osaka
00:15:33.002 --> 00:15:36.322
next month and the following month, Nagoya, the back to Tokyo,
00:15:36.542 --> 00:15:38.042
the Sumo Palace and all these things.
00:15:38.342 --> 00:15:44.982
And well into 94, they had another Yokohama Arena in March again.
00:15:44.982 --> 00:15:47.502
And then August, you know, Budokan.
00:15:47.702 --> 00:15:51.982
And then 94, in November, you have Tokyo Dome. Yeah.
00:15:52.842 --> 00:15:59.062
So around this time, who were the superstars that people wanted to see the most?
00:15:59.062 --> 00:16:03.382
Who was at the forefront of these couple years, 93, 94, 95?
00:16:03.602 --> 00:16:11.102
Bonacano, Ajakon, Manami Toyota, Kyoko Inoue, Takako Inoue, Mima Shimoda.
00:16:11.502 --> 00:16:18.662
Yeah, those. And we mingled well enough with JWP and LLPW.
00:16:19.022 --> 00:16:22.982
The hardcore wrestling fan knew of Shinobu Kandori, right?
00:16:23.282 --> 00:16:27.682
But by having this in a promotional match, that the people started going to
00:16:27.682 --> 00:16:30.522
LLPW show. So that was a win-win situation.
00:16:31.142 --> 00:16:38.222
And with JWP, there were people like Dynamite Kanzai, the Quri Suzuki,
00:16:38.882 --> 00:16:43.162
the Mayumi Ozaki. that they got their own stars, right?
00:16:43.462 --> 00:16:47.862
And there was like a single match, Aja Kong against Dynamite Kansai. Oh, wow.
00:16:49.796 --> 00:16:53.536
I almost said the two tough guys, but no, no, tough women. I'm sorry.
00:16:53.916 --> 00:16:58.336
That like a short hair, you know, that the costume is really masculine.
00:16:58.596 --> 00:17:01.796
And it's like, they're women, but they were a type of, you know,
00:17:02.236 --> 00:17:04.196
Manami Toyota type of women's wrestler.
00:17:04.536 --> 00:17:08.116
But there's a type of Dynamite Council in Ajakon and Kyoko, you know,
00:17:08.196 --> 00:17:14.876
the more boyish kind of athletes that they catered to different kind of audience,
00:17:15.056 --> 00:17:16.936
if I don't, you know what I'm talking about.
00:17:16.936 --> 00:17:20.136
They wrestled more like orthodox style
00:17:20.136 --> 00:17:22.896
male wrestling like they didn't do any of
00:17:22.896 --> 00:17:25.976
the high flying any of the lucha yeah and both dynamite
00:17:25.976 --> 00:17:29.476
kansai and and aj aj aj it works
00:17:29.476 --> 00:17:32.436
like uwf almost kicking pad and this
00:17:32.436 --> 00:17:35.316
mma finger gloves and the the
00:17:35.316 --> 00:17:38.276
suplex submission and they don't
00:17:38.276 --> 00:17:42.496
even lock up they'll kick you first you know i'm saying more style
00:17:42.496 --> 00:17:45.256
was there yeah yeah kind of mirrored what
00:17:45.256 --> 00:17:48.536
was popular in some circles at the time with men's
00:17:48.536 --> 00:17:51.476
wrestling and with yeah with a with the
00:17:51.476 --> 00:17:54.376
women's wrestling all japan's
00:17:54.376 --> 00:17:57.916
women didn't have as much of that flavor as
00:17:57.916 --> 00:18:04.896
the non-japan women's groups and all japan women's had the influence from male
00:18:04.896 --> 00:18:11.596
wrestling yeah and the manami toyota admits that she grew up watching all japan
00:18:11.596 --> 00:18:16.436
women but never really watched men's wrestling very interesting you know so
00:18:16.436 --> 00:18:17.736
it's a completely different style.
00:18:18.416 --> 00:18:22.636
Almost like a different sport NFL Sunday Ticket is now on YouTube and YouTube
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but with NFL Sunday Ticket your out of market team is never more than a short distance away.
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Oh, before I forget, 1993 was a year that Chigusa Nagayo made a comeback.
00:19:29.002 --> 00:19:34.702
She died back in 89, but she decided to come back as a wrestler.
00:19:34.702 --> 00:19:41.742
And 94 Lioness Asuka another half of Crash Girls Lioness Asuka decided to make
00:19:41.742 --> 00:19:45.742
a comeback in 94 which was interesting and initially,
00:19:46.522 --> 00:19:51.922
Nagayo worked you know shows for all Japan women but they announced that August
00:19:51.922 --> 00:19:57.482
of 94 that she's starting a new group called Gaia Japan another new company
00:19:57.482 --> 00:20:03.102
yes and Gaia Japan yeah their first show won't happen until 95 but the.
00:20:04.704 --> 00:20:09.504
Gaia Japan is famous for this. It was a British documentary,
00:20:09.684 --> 00:20:16.484
Gaia Girls, that they did a long documentary movie that was really almost like a violent,
00:20:17.384 --> 00:20:22.004
that these young girls trying to become a professional wrestler,
00:20:22.204 --> 00:20:24.304
they had a long documentary.
00:20:25.264 --> 00:20:31.404
You should maybe, you know this movie, so maybe you better explain that to the audience.
00:20:31.644 --> 00:20:34.344
Yeah, it was a BBC documentary in 1999.
00:20:34.704 --> 00:20:37.604
2000 was it right around that time
00:20:37.604 --> 00:20:40.524
and yeah we got a lot
00:20:40.524 --> 00:20:43.704
yeah of nagai she was
00:20:43.704 --> 00:20:46.604
in charge of the gaia school and we saw a
00:20:46.604 --> 00:20:49.584
young and very intense meiko satamura i think 15 was
00:20:49.584 --> 00:20:52.444
she 15 15 year old meiko satamura was in it yeah
00:20:52.444 --> 00:20:55.464
my gosh she's intense right on ninth grade yeah she didn't
00:20:55.464 --> 00:20:58.324
even go go back to school 10th grade 10th grade
00:20:58.324 --> 00:21:01.124
she decided to become wrestler and a few
00:21:01.124 --> 00:21:03.944
years later she i think around that time she did show up on a
00:21:03.944 --> 00:21:07.324
wcw broadcast yeah yeah right that's
00:21:07.324 --> 00:21:10.144
a smaller show like wcw world or
00:21:10.144 --> 00:21:17.924
wcw pro yeah worldwide yeah wcw pro wcw worldwide show yeah and her taped like
00:21:17.924 --> 00:21:23.784
three matches and left yeah her and we matz yes but yeah the documentary i think
00:21:23.784 --> 00:21:28.704
it's pretty easy to find on youtube or daily motion if you just type in gaia girls g-a-e-a,
00:21:29.384 --> 00:21:31.344
girls. It's out there.
00:21:32.384 --> 00:21:36.804
It's pretty intense. Not for the faint of heart. Right, and also how brutal
00:21:36.804 --> 00:21:39.824
the training was and almost like a vibe.
00:21:40.524 --> 00:21:45.784
It was almost like they had to prove. It was a very shocking documentary piece.
00:21:47.144 --> 00:21:48.304
Serious, they were.
00:21:50.284 --> 00:21:54.784
It wasn't the original for Chigusa Nagayo because it was the exact training
00:21:54.784 --> 00:21:59.224
that she went through as a rookie when she was with All Japan Women.
00:22:01.022 --> 00:22:06.102
So it was a kind of a first glimpse into that kind of background world. Right, right.
00:22:06.582 --> 00:22:10.982
And documentary and the movie footage. Yeah, and you can still watch that.
00:22:11.222 --> 00:22:12.702
And that's how they do in Japan.
00:22:13.842 --> 00:22:17.682
It was something. It was almost prejudice, but not so far from reality.
00:22:17.882 --> 00:22:21.502
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's 94, the boom period.
00:22:22.342 --> 00:22:27.462
Yeah? Oh, I was just going to mention before, if anybody's a fan of Hiroto Sakura,
00:22:27.862 --> 00:22:30.842
that Gaia movie, it features. She's in it.
00:22:31.022 --> 00:22:33.862
I think 14-year-old Hirota Sakura.
00:22:34.302 --> 00:22:38.002
It's funny to see. She's a mother of two now, but it was a while ago.
00:22:38.582 --> 00:22:42.062
So there was a funny kind of wrestler and a serious kind of wrestler because
00:22:42.062 --> 00:22:46.382
Hirota Sakura and Meiko Satomura is like a complete...
00:22:47.402 --> 00:22:48.482
Night and day.
00:22:50.442 --> 00:22:55.722
Extreme from one end of the spectrum to the other, yeah. But they both came
00:22:55.722 --> 00:22:57.662
out of the Gaia school. Same training.
00:22:59.242 --> 00:23:04.402
Same training camp, yeah. So, 93, huge period.
00:23:05.022 --> 00:23:14.182
And also, that was the year that Bo Nakano, the Aja Kong finally beat Bo Nakano for the red belt.
00:23:14.762 --> 00:23:16.782
So, the torch was handed.
00:23:18.282 --> 00:23:23.922
Bo Nakano, huge superstar, but she dropped the title, red belt,
00:23:24.442 --> 00:23:27.542
the World Japan, the WWWA world title to Aja.
00:23:27.722 --> 00:23:32.782
So, Aja becomes a total main event. And Bonacano decided to leave four-time schedule.
00:23:33.082 --> 00:23:37.062
First, she went to Mexico and became CMLL Women's Champion.
00:23:37.422 --> 00:23:41.642
Then in 1994, she went to WWF.
00:23:42.082 --> 00:23:47.902
And it's not that Bonacano wanted to go, but it was Alondra Blaze,
00:23:48.162 --> 00:23:52.422
Medusa, who became Alondra Blaze in WWF.
00:23:52.422 --> 00:24:00.982
And they put a package together, WWF Women's Champion, Alondra Blaze against Bonacano in America.
00:24:01.282 --> 00:24:03.302
And that was Bonacano's transition.
00:24:03.962 --> 00:24:10.222
For Tokyo Dome, November 94, November 20, Tokyo Dome card, Alondra Blaze against
00:24:10.222 --> 00:24:15.442
Bonacano title match was brought back from America and had that.
00:24:15.622 --> 00:24:22.002
So when Tokyo Dome showed, it was like an eight-hour show. I was there the entire day.
00:24:24.322 --> 00:24:29.282
You were on commentary I watched so many matches that day It's almost like escaping,
00:24:30.022 --> 00:24:33.602
Yeah, I couldn't do all eight hours But I did a three hour portion of it We
00:24:33.602 --> 00:24:36.922
switched, you know, because people were getting tired And you can't call, you know,
00:24:37.142 --> 00:24:41.602
all the matches For eight, nine hours So we, you know, traded a spot Yeah,
00:24:41.642 --> 00:24:45.282
and yeah, I was doing that What did fans do?
00:24:46.142 --> 00:24:49.922
I guess they decided To stay, or some of the matches You know,
00:24:50.282 --> 00:24:54.222
there was actually like Like, you know, Miyu Yamamoto is, you know,
00:24:54.282 --> 00:24:57.562
amateur wrestling gold medal champion, older sister of Yamamoto.
00:24:58.745 --> 00:25:03.985
Yamamoto Kid Yoshifumi, and they brought this Olympic level women's amateur
00:25:03.985 --> 00:25:08.805
wrestlers, you know, yeah, Kid Yamamoto's older sister, Miyu Yamamoto,
00:25:08.985 --> 00:25:13.005
she wrestled, not professional match, but the exhibition in professional ring.
00:25:13.765 --> 00:25:18.705
And there was time that, well, I guess people decide to just get up and go get
00:25:18.705 --> 00:25:22.485
something to drink or something to eat and come back and, you know, and watch more.
00:25:22.705 --> 00:25:28.625
So, like, almost like going to ball game, you know, you can't pay attention to every second.
00:25:28.745 --> 00:25:32.805
Of it and every match of every second of it for eight
00:25:32.805 --> 00:25:35.965
hours four hours eight nine eight is
00:25:35.965 --> 00:25:38.965
eight nine hours you know impossible but they yeah that was
00:25:38.965 --> 00:25:44.585
yeah yeah and then also all japan women's wrestling company knew that it was
00:25:44.585 --> 00:25:49.125
that the one and only time they would be running tokyo dome so i guess they
00:25:49.125 --> 00:25:54.285
wanted to have everything on it you know you know there was mm not the mma but
00:25:54.285 --> 00:25:56.205
they They used to call it Vali Tudo.
00:25:56.825 --> 00:25:59.345
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything goes match.
00:26:00.185 --> 00:26:07.125
And the interesting was that Chigusa Nagayo against Reggie Bennett single match.
00:26:07.365 --> 00:26:11.045
And they had, you know, and also one night tournament going,
00:26:11.225 --> 00:26:15.965
you know, and also it was Akira Hokuto's first retirement show, you know, card.
00:26:16.845 --> 00:26:21.845
And Aja Kong against Manami Toyota single match. They put a lot of interesting
00:26:21.845 --> 00:26:24.825
thing on it. But I think it was just tiring.
00:26:25.385 --> 00:26:31.165
And to be honest with you, I don't really remember all the details of matches from that night.
00:26:31.625 --> 00:26:33.825
I just remember the fact that I was there.
00:26:34.685 --> 00:26:38.945
So weren't any big memorable moments? Is there anything you can recall?
00:26:40.105 --> 00:26:46.485
It's just a bit in peace, you know, because it was something that happened at Tokyo Dome.
00:26:46.485 --> 00:26:49.845
And it was all that thing is how I remember. and also
00:26:49.845 --> 00:26:53.885
when you watch Tokyo Dome you know wrestling show
00:26:53.885 --> 00:26:58.565
at the Tokyo Dome it always happens that you are not really watching ring you
00:26:58.565 --> 00:27:03.825
are watching the monitor right yeah especially if you're sitting farther away
00:27:03.825 --> 00:27:11.965
oh yeah every scene is pretty far away if you ask me and the ring and you hear thumbs.
00:27:14.202 --> 00:27:17.122
You know like a bottom or hip toss or something you hear the sound from
00:27:17.122 --> 00:27:19.782
you know from your right ear but you hear like a
00:27:19.782 --> 00:27:23.902
half second delay sound from that screen you know the something really kind
00:27:23.902 --> 00:27:30.662
of strange feeling it's like almost half second delay you have two sounds you
00:27:30.662 --> 00:27:35.642
know different sound and that that takes attention away from you but that happens
00:27:35.642 --> 00:27:39.342
every tokyo dome show you know even New Japan's, you know, Wrestle Kingdom,
00:27:40.022 --> 00:27:42.482
everybody's watching this from pretty far away.
00:27:42.822 --> 00:27:49.042
And if you're not in a big floor arena, that's still far away too.
00:27:49.122 --> 00:27:53.962
But if you're sitting on a stand, you will be watching the big monitor,
00:27:54.282 --> 00:27:57.322
you know, what they call it, or a vision. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:57.982 --> 00:28:02.302
Yeah, there's really no way around it. There's a delayed reaction on the big
00:28:02.302 --> 00:28:03.942
matches. Right, right. Yeah.
00:28:04.622 --> 00:28:07.502
So the being in being there and
00:28:07.502 --> 00:28:10.702
being part of the big historical show was
00:28:10.702 --> 00:28:13.802
what it was about and yeah i think
00:28:13.802 --> 00:28:16.682
uh if you watch this tokyo dome car on
00:28:16.682 --> 00:28:19.782
video it's out there that uh
00:28:19.782 --> 00:28:22.662
it looked like a completely different night too so now
00:28:22.662 --> 00:28:25.302
that if you want to watch the serious content of the match as a
00:28:25.302 --> 00:28:28.302
match that you should go back and watch videos but the fact
00:28:28.302 --> 00:28:32.362
you were there was just as important yeah but uh
00:28:32.362 --> 00:28:35.122
a lot of people call this you know like a
00:28:35.122 --> 00:28:38.262
the peak and the highest moment
00:28:38.262 --> 00:28:41.982
of this woman's you know joshi wrestling's boom
00:28:41.982 --> 00:28:45.362
period but it was actually the tokyo
00:28:45.362 --> 00:28:48.682
dome was like the beginning of the end beginning of
00:28:48.682 --> 00:28:51.462
the end almost i why do
00:28:51.462 --> 00:28:54.602
you say it was the beginning of the end the next year 95 that they
00:28:54.602 --> 00:28:57.282
still had yokohama arena beginning yeah beginning of the
00:28:57.282 --> 00:29:00.722
end because it was like something that something peaked and
00:29:00.722 --> 00:29:03.702
also you and i are old enough to
00:29:03.702 --> 00:29:06.802
look at this three-year period of something concrete some.
00:29:06.802 --> 00:29:10.042
Three-year period when you were young like when
00:29:10.042 --> 00:29:13.662
you in a teenage or 20s you know three years
00:29:13.662 --> 00:29:16.462
seem like forever does that make sense
00:29:16.462 --> 00:29:19.522
it seemed like a long long three years
00:29:19.522 --> 00:29:22.422
yeah yeah so it was like the boom
00:29:22.422 --> 00:29:25.082
period anything you know
00:29:25.082 --> 00:29:28.522
that the disco music or uh the space invader
00:29:28.522 --> 00:29:31.402
or there's a game you know some computer game video boy something
00:29:31.402 --> 00:29:34.842
that your favorite thing you know that the software or
00:29:34.842 --> 00:29:38.142
something the actual boom peak
00:29:38.142 --> 00:29:43.362
period is about three years you know what i'm saying and then it kind of tapers
00:29:43.362 --> 00:29:50.802
this was yeah right right and i think that this november 94 tokyo dome show
00:29:50.802 --> 00:29:52.202
was like the beginning of the
00:29:52.202 --> 00:29:56.842
end they still had Yokohama Arena show the following year, you know, the.
00:29:58.088 --> 00:30:03.328
The small palace show and all these things, but it was like, wasn't really there.
00:30:03.468 --> 00:30:09.588
And when they finally had two consecutive nights at the Budokan in August of
00:30:09.588 --> 00:30:14.028
96, we saw some empty, empty seats. Yeah.
00:30:15.068 --> 00:30:23.708
And that was a 96 was the year Akira Hokuto coming, coming out of retires just after two short years.
00:30:23.868 --> 00:30:28.808
And she joined Gaia Japan for that this time, you know, And also another group
00:30:28.808 --> 00:30:35.888
called JD, you know, John Dark, JD started and Jaguar Yokota became coach of that.
00:30:36.588 --> 00:30:41.428
And a lot of the new thing, you know, not just all Japan women,
00:30:41.648 --> 00:30:46.108
but, you know, actually Bonacano is no longer the part of the all Japan women group.
00:30:46.108 --> 00:30:51.368
And Aja Kong and Manami Toyota, the Kyoko Inoue, the Mima Shimoda,
00:30:51.688 --> 00:30:56.328
the Mita probably, and probably Yumi Kohota.
00:30:56.628 --> 00:30:58.568
That's about the big roster.
00:30:58.948 --> 00:31:05.228
But something was missing already in the year of 95, 96. In my eyes, yeah.
00:31:05.968 --> 00:31:11.368
So they burned out new wrestling fans or they just...
00:31:12.508 --> 00:31:16.008
I guess Boomperio was coming to an end.
00:31:16.108 --> 00:31:20.288
It felt like yeah so when
00:31:20.288 --> 00:31:23.468
was it exactly that all Japan women started to
00:31:23.468 --> 00:31:27.448
fizzle out falling I think it
00:31:27.448 --> 00:31:30.368
started falling like the summer
00:31:30.368 --> 00:31:37.728
spring of 97 it lasted 96 you know and they were still having their last corner
00:31:37.728 --> 00:31:44.788
in a promotion match all Japan against JWP all Japan women against LLPW and
00:31:44.788 --> 00:31:48.088
trying to scratch every bit of it.
00:31:48.648 --> 00:31:53.648
In 1997, Kyoko Inoue all of a sudden quit all Japan women.
00:31:55.268 --> 00:32:03.588
Because they were actually late for the paychecks every month Saturday.
00:32:03.968 --> 00:32:10.708
What was interesting was that September of 1997, September of 1997,
00:32:11.408 --> 00:32:16.568
all Japan women all of a sudden filed bankruptcy. Oh, right?
00:32:17.428 --> 00:32:20.528
Wait a minute. That lasted until 2005, right?
00:32:20.808 --> 00:32:26.568
What was so interesting was that the old Japan women's company in 1997,
00:32:27.348 --> 00:32:33.788
when they filed their bankruptcy, that meaning that no bank will do business with you, right?
00:32:35.979 --> 00:32:40.139
That make sense yeah hello are
00:32:40.139 --> 00:32:43.759
you there yeah yeah what was
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.179
happening was that they announced that after they're
00:32:47.179 --> 00:32:50.459
betting the first bankruptcy they announced it
00:32:50.459 --> 00:32:53.699
we will be still running wrestling show
00:32:53.699 --> 00:32:56.999
how right cash only basis
00:32:56.999 --> 00:33:04.479
that was like oh that's just like a hope it's it's making any sense is anything
00:33:04.479 --> 00:33:09.299
you could say about right now you could say they were in trouble by they filed
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:15.859
bankruptcy and yeah yeah and all japan women you know we haven't covered this much but,
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:24.379
it's a very interesting you know company they opened business six 1968 right
00:33:24.379 --> 00:33:31.039
and they always had this channel eight fujitelevisions you know the fujitelevision
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:36.179
always carried the show and it I was also paying them annual rights fee.
00:33:36.479 --> 00:33:41.299
You know, there's a good chunk of money coming from the network channel.
00:33:41.539 --> 00:33:44.339
And actually, they were in business for 10 years by then.
00:33:44.779 --> 00:33:49.959
And the Old Japan Women's Wrestling, 1968 to 1997. So they lasted 30 years,
00:33:50.059 --> 00:33:51.399
right? Almost, you know.
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:57.599
And New Japan, Anthony Noki's New Japan Pro Wrestling never had their own building.
00:33:57.879 --> 00:34:02.039
You know, they were in one floor of some building, right?
00:34:02.999 --> 00:34:06.779
Giant Barbers, All Japan Pro Wrestling, they never had their own building.
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:13.179
You know, again, All Japan, you know, Giant Barbers.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:20.759
Whereas all Japan women own their own building, two buildings in Meguro.
00:34:21.099 --> 00:34:26.759
And there was like, we used to call it palace because it's a two building built,
00:34:26.919 --> 00:34:28.339
you know, right next to each other.
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:33.819
One had this, you know, the parking space where they can park three different
00:34:33.819 --> 00:34:37.899
buses, you know, like two buses, baby face and the heel bus.
00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:43.279
And also that another truck to have just the ring and cheers in there, you know.
00:34:43.279 --> 00:34:48.099
And the second half of this the ground floor, there was a dojo you know,
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:52.799
dojo, all Japan dojo was ringing and everybody practiced and second floor,
00:34:52.979 --> 00:34:55.839
they had the office and the second floor, left hand,
00:34:56.419 --> 00:35:03.339
half the building they had Sanzoku, the big restaurant and the third floor fourth floor on, that the,
00:35:03.919 --> 00:35:09.379
rookies and girls were living and up on fifth floor midgets were living, you know, the midget,
00:35:09.839 --> 00:35:13.179
wrestlers, and they had restaurants they
00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:16.579
had karaoke houses you know
00:35:16.579 --> 00:35:19.419
but karaoke you know studio is not i mean
00:35:19.419 --> 00:35:22.419
it's like you can now you call it you know the karaoke became english word
00:35:22.419 --> 00:35:25.979
but they were they had karaoke studio bar
00:35:25.979 --> 00:35:30.979
way back in 80s you know and they had different restaurants they had ramen houses
00:35:30.979 --> 00:35:38.279
and they had real estate department and we don't know much details but all japan
00:35:38.279 --> 00:35:42.539
women and four Matsunaga brothers were the only one had their own building and
00:35:42.539 --> 00:35:44.619
their own restaurant going and real estate.
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:48.219
Department and they must be doing.
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.519
Fortune right something probably about the real estate you know that,
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:59.859
the part something they done or something that they lost a lot of money or something
00:35:59.859 --> 00:36:06.819
and then all of a sudden 1997 you know a year after this peak year they were
00:36:06.819 --> 00:36:11.779
filing bankruptcy and nobody knew what was really the reason for it.
00:36:12.359 --> 00:36:18.359
But they still announced it, that they are still running wrestling shows because they're,
00:36:19.308 --> 00:36:24.948
The boss, Takashima Tsunaga's core. This is the only thing they can sell now.
00:36:25.588 --> 00:36:31.608
And on cash-only based business, between 1997 and 2005, they lasted another
00:36:31.608 --> 00:36:33.228
seven years. It's just incredible.
00:36:34.588 --> 00:36:36.348
And different kind of people, right?
00:36:38.288 --> 00:36:42.928
Diehards. Diehards help really. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:43.628 --> 00:36:50.348
And also more like a bank and pay, you know, like a checkbooks and the bookkeeping.
00:36:50.728 --> 00:36:53.448
It's not holding it. They can still run wrestling.
00:36:54.368 --> 00:36:57.188
Cash in cash out every, you know, night out, night in, you know,
00:36:57.248 --> 00:37:01.868
day in, day out. They can still operate wrestling. And that's exactly what they did.
00:37:02.228 --> 00:37:07.188
Another seven years. I needed to point that out because 1997 was the year that
00:37:07.188 --> 00:37:09.268
the first Kyoko Inoue left.
00:37:09.528 --> 00:37:12.068
Then Rossi left the company, Rossi Ogawa.
00:37:14.368 --> 00:37:18.228
And Kyoko Inoue started her first neo ladies wrestling.
00:37:18.508 --> 00:37:27.628
And Rossi Ogawa, they took Aja Khan and Reggie Bennett, Mariko Yoshida,
00:37:27.888 --> 00:37:32.788
and like a 567 girl came with Rossi Ogawa and he started his Arsion company.
00:37:33.088 --> 00:37:39.908
Yeah, like a forerunner of today's startup. Yeah. The first company Rossi started was Arsion. Yeah.
00:37:40.368 --> 00:37:48.028
That started in 1997. that meaning that all Japan was you know like going to
00:37:48.028 --> 00:37:55.948
three you know different you know like a split you know Bonakano is not part
00:37:55.948 --> 00:37:59.528
of that group anymore and Akira Hokuto in,
00:38:00.952 --> 00:38:06.032
was not part of the group. She joined Gaia Japan and Toshio Yamada later on
00:38:06.032 --> 00:38:13.292
joined Gaia Japan as well because Toshio Yamada was like Chigusa Nagaya's number one pro-J.
00:38:14.792 --> 00:38:18.652
So it's like half the crew left, all Japan women.
00:38:19.212 --> 00:38:25.192
And Manami Toyota became like a single main event wrestler with all japan woman
00:38:25.192 --> 00:38:32.872
yeah that year and that's already end of 1990s right so the millennium,
00:38:33.672 --> 00:38:36.652
coming and you hear that the
00:38:36.652 --> 00:38:43.832
96 97 was the year nobihiko takada had this hickson gracie match at the tokyo
00:38:43.832 --> 00:38:49.472
dome like your uwfi superstar and the best thing ever nobihiko takada right
00:38:49.472 --> 00:38:55.172
and had this Tokyo Dome MMA match against Hickson Gracie two years in a row 96,
00:38:55.392 --> 00:38:59.052
97, two years in a row he lost in a few minutes, you know what I'm saying and
00:38:59.052 --> 00:39:01.912
it was like, that's when this really,
00:39:03.532 --> 00:39:06.772
loyal professional pro wrestling fan starts scratching their heads.
00:39:08.452 --> 00:39:11.392
Something wrong with this picture, right? are you with me on this?
00:39:12.972 --> 00:39:15.732
People's, what's the word not just their minds were
00:39:15.732 --> 00:39:18.592
changing but it was the whole perception of what pro wrestling
00:39:18.592 --> 00:39:21.672
was was completely flipping over on
00:39:21.672 --> 00:39:24.552
its head at least in japan at first and then later in states
00:39:24.552 --> 00:39:28.532
and worldwide yeah because ufc was
00:39:28.532 --> 00:39:31.332
was not you know they're not you know
00:39:31.332 --> 00:39:34.992
running shows in japan but the videotape and
00:39:34.992 --> 00:39:40.272
and and you know like a cable satellite tv special of ufc was happening and
00:39:40.272 --> 00:39:47.172
also people have seen masakatsu funaki minoru suzuki ken shamrock's pancras
00:39:47.172 --> 00:39:52.412
you know coming out of traditional pro wrestling and pro wrestlers start MMA.
00:39:52.652 --> 00:39:57.712
There was no word yet. I don't think, but the MMA type professional wrestling
00:39:57.712 --> 00:40:01.232
around that time era. So people start going like, huh.
00:40:01.472 --> 00:40:08.132
And if it was all a hundred percent legitimate contest, it would not look like that. Right.
00:40:08.472 --> 00:40:14.492
And yeah. So the millennium coming and just the beginning of dark age of professional wrestling.
00:40:17.372 --> 00:40:20.172
And trend. That's what I'm saying, I think.
00:40:21.172 --> 00:40:29.552
Then, yeah, then 99, 2000, of course, wrestling is around, you know, but, oh, wow, this,
00:40:30.492 --> 00:40:33.892
something about this, you know, this pro wrestling was like,
00:40:34.372 --> 00:40:37.112
people, I mean, even the lawyers wrestling fans,
00:40:38.303 --> 00:40:43.503
wrestling was something that we all enjoyed during the 20th century.
00:40:44.063 --> 00:40:52.163
And when the 21st century comes, it may not be part of our everyday life or
00:40:52.163 --> 00:40:53.863
something. We had the feeling.
00:40:54.123 --> 00:40:57.383
A real bad feeling about pro wrestling. Does that make sense?
00:40:57.783 --> 00:41:01.463
There was a gray cloudiness in the air.
00:41:02.023 --> 00:41:05.203
Yeah, wrestling was changing. Yeah, everything
00:41:05.203 --> 00:41:08.163
has to come to an end or something
00:41:08.163 --> 00:41:11.123
we really felt that during this millennium era
00:41:11.123 --> 00:41:14.823
you know people who liked like ufos
00:41:14.823 --> 00:41:17.903
you know like you know like you know what i'm saying yeah it's
00:41:17.903 --> 00:41:20.983
like oh that was all bad and it's like everything that
00:41:20.983 --> 00:41:28.963
you know like supernatural that was so fake all these misses solved before the
00:41:28.963 --> 00:41:38.463
new century or something all the music will be changed or everything will be once in 100 years,
00:41:38.643 --> 00:41:41.243
and we were there, and we really felt that.
00:41:42.163 --> 00:41:48.043
I mean, not all that much different from previous years, but we were led to
00:41:48.043 --> 00:41:52.683
believe that when a new century starts, everything will be different. Does that make sense?
00:41:53.383 --> 00:41:58.923
It was going to be different, but it was, everyone thought bigger or better. Yeah, of course.
00:41:59.543 --> 00:42:02.363
Bigger and better. It hasn't been, though.
00:42:02.363 --> 00:42:06.123
20 years later now it's what the covid and
00:42:06.123 --> 00:42:09.643
a war and well at that time i think joshua
00:42:09.643 --> 00:42:12.483
pro wrestling got smaller and more niche than ever
00:42:12.483 --> 00:42:15.443
for you know from between
00:42:15.443 --> 00:42:22.703
the yeah all in all that the boom era peak era really had to come to an end
00:42:22.703 --> 00:42:28.283
yeah but it's all we had to where the current stars came from a lot of the current
00:42:28.283 --> 00:42:33.663
stars that we see they came from this time period they came out of that time period Asuka,
00:42:33.923 --> 00:42:39.063
Yoshirai yeah yeah oh of course Yoshirai, Asuka or.
00:42:41.303 --> 00:42:48.663
Today's superstar didn't really watch good wrestling or that the 90s peak period
00:42:48.663 --> 00:42:54.623
was something they heard about or watch on old VHS tapes and there really was
00:42:54.623 --> 00:43:00.223
dark period not just women's wrestling but men's This is the rest.
00:43:02.060 --> 00:43:07.160
It's not a day to cover this, but we have to really touch this subject too.
00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:12.400
New Japan Pro Wrestling was the one who got hit the most.
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:20.980
Retired Inoki, Anthony Inoki, pretty much sided himself with the MMA world.
00:43:21.520 --> 00:43:26.140
You lived in Japan, and if you remember about the six, seven-year period,
00:43:26.140 --> 00:43:31.880
every New Year's Eve, December 31st. And NHK had.
00:43:34.540 --> 00:43:39.400
Always traditional singing, the music festival kind of thing all night long.
00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:46.600
And Channel 4 had Inoki Bomaiye. Channel 6 had Pride. Channel 8 had K1.
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.920
They all looked the same because all MMA shows all night long.
00:43:50.180 --> 00:43:55.600
Then there was not a wrestler. Oh, probably like a Kazuyuki Fujita from Kamara
00:43:55.600 --> 00:44:01.120
New Japan, But Fujita wasn't considered pro wrestlers anymore at the time.
00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:04.440
Probably maybe Kazushi Sakuraba.
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:11.940
But Kazushi Sakuraba's peak was much like 2001, 2002 when he beat Boyce Gracie.
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:18.900
But Sakuraba himself switched K1 and Pryde back and forth for this bigger contract or something.
00:44:19.040 --> 00:44:21.920
But people didn't look at Sakuraba as a professional wrestler.
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:26.380
The ones like Yuji Nagata, then IWGP champion,
00:44:26.680 --> 00:44:31.960
or somebody like Kendo Kashi without masks, they had matches against people
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:37.620
like Milko Krakop or Federer Emelienko with just two days training.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:38.880
That's impossible, right?
00:44:40.580 --> 00:44:47.080
It's still, every time you hear it, it's pretty unprecedented. I mean, shoot.
00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:53.200
And it really, it was a big gamble. all of it, there was a lot of big gambles yeah.
00:44:55.101 --> 00:45:00.001
Not that Nagata was, you know, not good enough.
00:45:00.261 --> 00:45:06.641
He, both Nagata, Yuji Nagata, Kendo Kashi, Ishizawa, or Manabu Nakanishi,
00:45:06.761 --> 00:45:11.521
they were all college wrestling champions that turned professional wrestler.
00:45:13.921 --> 00:45:19.401
Manabu Nakanishi's case, he was an Olympic wrestler, 92 bar and professional wrestler.
00:45:19.661 --> 00:45:22.841
But Inoki still had influence over this,
00:45:23.001 --> 00:45:25.641
you know, he wasn't even living in japan at the time he was
00:45:25.641 --> 00:45:30.981
living in la and la dojo it was another story for another day but inoki still
00:45:30.981 --> 00:45:37.341
had enough influence to call up new japan company in offices or send us nagata
00:45:37.341 --> 00:45:43.861
and kendokashin over for mmn they couldn't say no and nagata kendokashin both you know,
00:45:45.601 --> 00:45:49.001
it was under contract dress so that they couldn't say no about it but they you
00:45:49.001 --> 00:45:50.081
know they were nice about it.
00:45:50.241 --> 00:45:54.541
They showed up the night after they had a wrestling match and had a match against
00:45:54.541 --> 00:45:57.181
people like Krakow and Federer, Emelienko.
00:45:57.521 --> 00:46:02.021
Of course, they weren't ready for that. But that costed wrestling a lot,
00:46:02.201 --> 00:46:03.321
a lot more than the surface.
00:46:04.361 --> 00:46:09.841
A lot of loyal professional wrestling fans really left pro wrestling because of it.
00:46:10.101 --> 00:46:14.061
Well, I want to watch something like Pride and K1. I don't blame them.
00:46:16.181 --> 00:46:19.401
That was the dark of wrestling. and women's
00:46:19.401 --> 00:46:22.181
wrestling was not pop trying to get there oh it took them like
00:46:22.181 --> 00:46:25.181
years to you know we probably had
00:46:25.181 --> 00:46:31.621
to wait till like 2010 that's when rossi started his stardom this time yeah
00:46:31.621 --> 00:46:38.081
stardom already has 10 year history you know but it was 2005 all japan women
00:46:38.081 --> 00:46:43.821
you know finally went out of business and really closed the chapter i mean the biggest,
00:46:44.961 --> 00:46:51.621
a women's wrestling company and that had a rich history and they produced so many legends and.
00:46:53.081 --> 00:46:58.161
We said Joshi Pro Wrestling, Women's Pro Wrestling that meant All Japan Pro
00:46:58.161 --> 00:47:02.381
Wrestling All Japan Women's Pro Wrestling for decades but they finally went
00:47:02.381 --> 00:47:07.941
out of business in 2005 did we get any questions from listeners this time?
00:47:08.461 --> 00:47:11.421
No I don't have any at hand but if anybody
00:47:11.421 --> 00:47:14.381
has them they know where to get us they can get out of us at twitter or
00:47:14.381 --> 00:47:17.821
via email but uh we are
00:47:17.821 --> 00:47:22.561
recording this a little bit earlier than let's fast forward let's fast forward
00:47:22.561 --> 00:47:31.321
yeah right right but doing it every week you know write that down with me and
00:47:31.321 --> 00:47:35.121
you know justin nipper that that should happen every week.
00:47:36.161 --> 00:47:41.661
So I guess we're doing it. And fast forward a little bit that the 2005,
00:47:42.101 --> 00:47:47.801
yes, All Japan Women's finally had.
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.840
Closed out the shop and it really
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:55.900
went down and that was also the
00:47:55.900 --> 00:47:59.140
year Gaia Japan Chigusa Nagaya's
00:47:59.140 --> 00:48:02.220
Gaia Japan closed down too because they were only
00:48:02.220 --> 00:48:07.060
going to do it for 10 year period the sponsor that the money promoter person
00:48:07.060 --> 00:48:12.660
was only committed for 10 year and 10 year project was over and Nagaya Chigusa
00:48:12.660 --> 00:48:19.400
said yeah we'll close Gaia Japan 95 and 2006 was the year
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.900
Now grown-up superstar,
00:48:22.660 --> 00:48:27.640
Meiko Satomura opened her Sendai Girls Pro Wrestling 2006.
00:48:28.240 --> 00:48:31.280
I felt like that was a brand new era. Yes.
00:48:32.100 --> 00:48:38.740
And 2007, you know, the pro wrestling wave started. 2009, Ice Ribbon started.
00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:44.380
2011, the Deanna, the Reina, all these new companies coming out, you know.
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:52.720
And finally, I got a text message from Rossi one day in the spring of 2010,
00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:56.760
I believe, that, actually, I'm doing the company again. Are you sure?
00:48:57.140 --> 00:49:03.460
And I was really, really happy that I was chosen to be one of the very few people
00:49:03.460 --> 00:49:05.820
that Rossi decided to inform on.
00:49:06.080 --> 00:49:10.400
And, oh, great, please be careful, kind of thing, right? because he lost a lot
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:16.840
of money and he himself had to file his personal bankruptcy when the company Arsian went down.
00:49:17.080 --> 00:49:21.040
And he himself had to live in this dark place.
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.399
Professional wrestling for like several years and
00:49:25.399 --> 00:49:28.219
yeah and 2010 he decided to you
00:49:28.219 --> 00:49:31.139
know go you know back this company up
00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:34.059
and this time called stardom and i felt
00:49:34.059 --> 00:49:39.399
really really it was like a promising it's like it was all accident when almost
00:49:39.399 --> 00:49:45.499
like an accident when rossi started the stardom 2010 if you remember fuka another
00:49:45.499 --> 00:49:51.859
idol wrestler that was like a niche niche niche but pretty popular.
00:49:53.099 --> 00:50:00.459
And Rossi for about five year period was just running small and just had enough 300,
00:50:00.939 --> 00:50:05.499
400 people in the audience but very loyal fan base for five,
00:50:05.659 --> 00:50:09.699
you know, every month for five year period and Rossi and Fuka was making,
00:50:09.859 --> 00:50:15.499
like a hand-to-hand making business and making living with this small portion of wrestling audience,
00:50:15.759 --> 00:50:23.939
very loyal fan base and that Fuka at the time was training new girls without
00:50:23.939 --> 00:50:26.659
really telling Russ about it.
00:50:26.759 --> 00:50:33.139
At the time, you know, like 2004, 2005, you can actually rent space during the
00:50:33.139 --> 00:50:34.999
week, during the daytime, the Shinkiba.
00:50:35.999 --> 00:50:41.279
The Shinkiba building always have wrestling ring in there. Any independent group can use it, you know.
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:44.659
And the wrestling ring was always there. And during the day,
00:50:44.699 --> 00:50:48.639
when nobody was using, that building, you know, a manager was like,
00:50:48.779 --> 00:50:53.859
you know, if a wrestler would come in and pay $10, $15, $20, they'll let you use.
00:50:55.786 --> 00:50:58.326
During the day, like during the week for the practice. Okay.
00:50:58.726 --> 00:51:01.746
Then Fuka started training rookies.
00:51:02.146 --> 00:51:06.406
Like among that, there was like Yoshiko, young Mayu Iwatani.
00:51:06.986 --> 00:51:10.406
They were like, Fuka was training these girls. Then one day,
00:51:10.586 --> 00:51:13.126
Fuka brought Rossi over.
00:51:13.266 --> 00:51:15.446
Come over. I'm training these girls.
00:51:15.966 --> 00:51:20.066
And it's like eight girls already to debut in the ring. And Rossi scratched his head.
00:51:20.426 --> 00:51:26.506
Wait a minute. He said, are you guys, like, what are you trying to do here?
00:51:27.186 --> 00:51:31.086
None of these girls wanted to work in existing wrestling companies.
00:51:32.406 --> 00:51:37.926
They pretty much was thinking that when they were ready, there's a place to
00:51:37.926 --> 00:51:38.906
wrestle or something, right?
00:51:39.386 --> 00:51:42.806
And not concrete plans. Then Rashi looked at it. One, two, three,
00:51:42.906 --> 00:51:44.826
four, five, six, seven, eight. He said, wait a minute.
00:51:45.146 --> 00:51:52.166
This might be his mission for these girls, in order for these girls to work
00:51:52.166 --> 00:51:56.506
in the ring in a completely new environment, therefore a new company.
00:51:57.846 --> 00:52:02.906
And then there was Yuzupon, if you remember, her TV project was going,
00:52:03.246 --> 00:52:08.406
Yuzupon was a pretty famous model and also what we call a gravier idol that
00:52:08.406 --> 00:52:12.206
the magazine with bikinis and stuff that she was really,
00:52:12.966 --> 00:52:14.906
Yuzupon was pretty famous.
00:52:15.086 --> 00:52:19.706
And there was a TV project to have her as a women's wrestler and have one match
00:52:19.706 --> 00:52:24.546
and one match only you know for the TV special and Rossi was you know helping
00:52:24.546 --> 00:52:28.246
that thing and when Yuzupon showed up at the.
00:52:29.779 --> 00:52:34.839
To start practicing. She was so serious that she doesn't want to do just one match for TV.
00:52:35.259 --> 00:52:38.719
It's like, she came every, started coming over to, you know,
00:52:38.799 --> 00:52:42.359
dojo, not the dojo, but the Shinkiba every day to join their,
00:52:42.359 --> 00:52:43.479
you know, Fuka's practice.
00:52:43.779 --> 00:52:48.199
And they said, if I do something, I want to do it for right and do it for real.
00:52:48.399 --> 00:52:50.739
And they ended up becoming a wrestler for a three-year period.
00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:58.039
Therefore, Rossi had a completely just all fresh roster to start, stardom with them.
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:04.019
And it's like, The rest is, you know, the rest of the story.
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:11.319
And the beginning of stardom was really exciting because no existing wrestler is all rookie.
00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:17.479
And then Takahashi from Old Japan, they joined to coach these wrestlers.
00:53:17.739 --> 00:53:25.739
And yeah, it just happened like a snowball effect that I felt that this stardom is going to make it.
00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:31.579
Does that make sense? I mean, it seems like you're correct on that because stardom
00:53:31.579 --> 00:53:36.359
is, I mean, you have to, can't argue that it's the number one women's wrestling
00:53:36.359 --> 00:53:38.859
company in the world right now, just like All Japan was.
00:53:39.919 --> 00:53:47.519
Oh, yeah, yeah. Then Rossi is the only one that has All Japan Women's DNA in him.
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:54.239
And after, All Japan Women's Company, like we always talk about,
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:59.459
was run by four Matsunaga brothers. Kenji Matsunaga, Takashi Matsunaga,
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.979
Kuni Matsunaga, and Toshi Kuni Matsunaga, four brothers.
00:54:03.439 --> 00:54:10.619
One by one, they all passed. And none of these brothers are with us anymore.
00:54:11.259 --> 00:54:17.339
And actually, in reality, Rossi is the only one who had this decades of experience
00:54:17.339 --> 00:54:23.719
with all Japan women and basically just knows how to run a women's wrestling company.
00:54:25.819 --> 00:54:29.499
And in 21st century style and yeah
00:54:29.499 --> 00:54:32.739
that's what we're talking about and today
00:54:32.739 --> 00:54:39.759
i try to count how many women's companies are there in japan right now you know
00:54:39.759 --> 00:54:45.499
we have stardom you know then this is big you know like number one company now
00:54:45.499 --> 00:54:50.779
is 35 wrestlers in full-time roster He sold the company to Bushiro,
00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:53.019
the same owning company with New Japan.
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:57.439
It's a big game, you know, trading card, big, huge company with big capital
00:54:57.439 --> 00:55:01.539
that Rossi just became a president of it.
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:05.959
No longer be paying wrestlers from, you know, his account.
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.759
But yeah, Rossi is really happy to be.
00:55:10.721 --> 00:55:14.761
Doing the show as a creative end of it. And the business part of it is run by
00:55:14.761 --> 00:55:17.381
Bushirod now. So it's in a good position.
00:55:17.861 --> 00:55:23.041
And very big, biggest company in Japan, women's wrestling is stardom right now.
00:55:23.421 --> 00:55:29.021
And then distant second would be what? Who do you think? Sendai Girls or Tokyo
00:55:29.021 --> 00:55:31.261
Joshi? Yeah, it's hard to say.
00:55:32.041 --> 00:55:35.701
Ice Raven, Oz Academy, yeah?
00:55:36.041 --> 00:55:39.681
In Japan, yeah, I don't know.
00:55:39.681 --> 00:55:43.361
Because the crowds for each
00:55:43.361 --> 00:55:47.041
promotion are pretty different there's not too much crossover Sendai
00:55:47.041 --> 00:55:51.701
girls fans don't often go to the Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling they're all supported
00:55:51.701 --> 00:56:00.981
by very loyal fan base you have actress girls the world pro wrestling or Shinshu
00:56:00.981 --> 00:56:06.641
girls wrestling they still have the group called LLPWX,
00:56:07.601 --> 00:56:14.961
90s LLPW but today's version run by Endo, LLPWX but they don't run,
00:56:15.921 --> 00:56:22.301
that old show there's another company called PRJ that run by Borishoi,
00:56:22.501 --> 00:56:30.781
the command Borishoi that is the spin-off of JWP that exists, Sheilings Gato Move.
00:56:31.821 --> 00:56:39.141
Wars Wrestling, Deanna Reina, Tokyo Joshi The Wave, we just named about 15 different companies.
00:56:40.061 --> 00:56:49.161
Yeah. And it's good. You know, it's like the WWE should not conquer every single company.
00:56:49.341 --> 00:56:52.101
The independent company should exist. You know what I'm saying?
00:56:52.741 --> 00:57:00.481
And just like the independent scene in America that a talented young wrestler
00:57:00.481 --> 00:57:06.341
debuted elsewhere will eventually come into, you know, eventually will come to stardom now.
00:57:06.341 --> 00:57:15.921
That's how their roster got so much bigger now yeah but about 15 women's company
00:57:15.921 --> 00:57:17.821
you know still running their shows,
00:57:18.821 --> 00:57:21.741
today right now it's good
00:57:21.741 --> 00:57:24.741
though I'd say that the market is big that it doesn't
00:57:24.741 --> 00:57:28.141
have to be one just one giant company you know that's healthier
00:57:28.141 --> 00:57:36.821
as a market I did notice that there was the Hokuto put the special shows together
00:57:36.821 --> 00:57:43.561
for all the companies I forget what it was right right the beginning of the
00:57:43.561 --> 00:57:46.321
pandemic yeah yeah oh definitely us.
00:57:47.892 --> 00:57:50.652
Yeah yeah they haven't done it
00:57:50.652 --> 00:57:53.632
this year though or the last yeah so that was not
00:57:53.632 --> 00:57:56.812
like the company but the more like a project to make
00:57:56.812 --> 00:57:59.772
women's wrestling genki does that make sense yeah
00:57:59.772 --> 00:58:02.652
just like kind of because like what do you how
00:58:02.652 --> 00:58:05.572
do you translate the word genki exactly i
00:58:05.572 --> 00:58:09.332
mean high energy lively lively vigorous
00:58:09.332 --> 00:58:13.292
okay okay like yeah the whole motivation
00:58:13.292 --> 00:58:16.912
behind it was to make women's wrestling genki yeah
00:58:16.912 --> 00:58:20.012
and and bright and and yeah like
00:58:20.012 --> 00:58:23.752
you said lively and some words don't translate huh it's
00:58:23.752 --> 00:58:26.652
a special word yeah yeah but so
00:58:26.652 --> 00:58:30.212
akira hokuto as like a big senior you
00:58:30.212 --> 00:58:33.792
know almost like a luminous right alumni
00:58:33.792 --> 00:58:36.752
then of the whole industry that she
00:58:36.752 --> 00:58:39.632
was influential enough that they can you
00:58:39.632 --> 00:58:42.952
know when and if she pick up a phone a
00:58:42.952 --> 00:58:46.292
lot of group will gather yeah and it
00:58:46.292 --> 00:58:50.172
only happened maybe two shows probably yeah and
00:58:50.172 --> 00:58:53.052
it wasn't there weren't any mixed promotion yeah
00:58:53.052 --> 00:58:56.832
but the intention you know that the was a
00:58:56.832 --> 00:59:04.692
project yeah yeah and i think that the pandemic also interrupted the yeah that's
00:59:04.692 --> 00:59:14.832
kind of gaia right but it's still under you know basically still under COVID, you know.
00:59:15.312 --> 00:59:20.652
Era, I think, you know, none of these companies are running full-time schedule, you know, that.
00:59:21.872 --> 00:59:27.132
Social distance is getting easier a little bit, but you're still supposed to
00:59:27.132 --> 00:59:30.312
be wearing your mask, you know, when you're in the building,
00:59:30.532 --> 00:59:32.592
you know, for the safety precaution, I guess.
00:59:32.992 --> 00:59:39.312
And none of these companies in Japan running as many shows as back in 2019.
00:59:39.632 --> 00:59:42.952
Yeah, that's Not just wrestling, but everything. Yeah.
00:59:44.580 --> 00:59:50.160
I mean, it's hard to cover every single year of Joshi Pro Wrestling,
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.740
but I think we did a pretty good job at covering everything from,
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:56.100
let's say, 1951 up until now.
00:59:57.260 --> 01:00:03.320
I think so, yeah. Then also after these three long episodes that people might
01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:07.740
know more about it or the details of certain events or the certain wrestlers
01:00:07.740 --> 01:00:15.240
or the timeline or the company map and the wrestling company's geographic,
01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:21.600
who went where and what happened with this company and that company and this
01:00:21.600 --> 01:00:26.340
company became this company and the change of names and whatnot.
01:00:26.540 --> 01:00:28.440
And we can always answer more questions.
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:35.260
Yeah, this is the foundation. I think with this three episodes.
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.400
All the way from 1948 all the way to 2020, too
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.640
and i hope we did okay job
01:00:42.640 --> 01:00:45.540
on this yeah feel free to reach out and
01:00:45.540 --> 01:00:48.440
ask questions if we you know of course we had to
01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:51.320
gloss over some aspects of or some
01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:54.240
years some there are
01:00:54.240 --> 01:00:57.040
certain things that we can we'll go over in
01:00:57.040 --> 01:01:00.240
detail down the road in the future when we focus on
01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:03.280
you know yeah yeah we might have left out something big
01:01:03.280 --> 01:01:06.660
yeah you know we'll get to everything there's
01:01:06.660 --> 01:01:09.800
lots there are lots of topics unique or
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.000
distinct topics to talk about and also we provided
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:17.140
the enough years and dates and names that some
01:01:17.140 --> 01:01:23.020
serious wrestling fans out there younger than we are they please would start
01:01:23.020 --> 01:01:29.500
their own research from this point on there's a lot to research too so yeah
01:01:29.500 --> 01:01:33.080
it's a lot out there yeah yeah no no it's our role.
01:01:34.623 --> 01:01:39.003
To head this down to wrestling historian and researching people.
01:01:39.283 --> 01:01:41.803
Yeah, I really hope that.
01:01:42.343 --> 01:01:46.563
Well, if people have questions, where can they reach out to you directly, Fumi?
01:01:47.063 --> 01:01:54.983
Okay, at Fumihiko Dayo F-U-M-I-H-I-K-O D-A-Y-O Fumihiko Dayo on Twitter or Fumisaito
01:01:54.983 --> 01:01:59.623
on Facebook and please message me first or friendly right away.
01:02:00.163 --> 01:02:04.143
And I'm at Justin M. Nipperke and IPPER on Twitter.
01:02:04.543 --> 01:02:08.263
If you have questions, comments, we'll follow up on the next episode.
01:02:08.463 --> 01:02:13.723
So I guess that's it for now. That's the end of our history of pro wrestling,
01:02:14.463 --> 01:02:19.903
in Japan, women's pro wrestling in Japan series, Jojo Pro Wrestling. What should we do next?
01:02:20.823 --> 01:02:24.883
Well, if anybody has any ideas. Next week, yeah. But otherwise,
01:02:25.103 --> 01:02:27.783
we'll come at you with a surprise. Yeah, we'll be doing this every week.
01:02:28.463 --> 01:02:30.843
And until then, so long from Tokyo.
01:02:32.240 --> 01:02:50.960
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