WEBVTT
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Autistic people have so much to offer, and yet
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so many of us struggle to fit into a world that
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isn't designed for us. I want to help change
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that. Welcome to the Working Class Autistic Podcast,
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where I talk to experts and discuss ways for
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autistic adults to thrive and reach their full
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potential at work and beyond. I'm your host,
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Kevin Joseph. Now, let's get to work. Hello,
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everyone, and welcome to the Working Class Autistic
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Podcast. My name is Kevin. and I'm a former tech
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worker making a career change to become a therapist.
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Last week, I released the 10th interview episode
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of the podcast, and in honor of that milestone,
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I thought it'd be fun to grab a quote from each
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interview I've conducted so far, and release
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a sort of sample platter episode, where you can
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get quick, bite -sized insights from various
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different episodes of the podcast. Before we
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get started, I wanted to mention that I've recently
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created new social media handles for the podcast.
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I'm not really good at social media in general.
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It's just not something I use very much personally.
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And so it's something I'm really struggling with
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for the podcast too. But it's something I want
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to get better at because it's the way to help
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new people find the podcast and help more people
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find my work and the things that I do. So I put
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links to my Instagram handle, Reddit username,
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and LinkedIn account in that show notes. And
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I would love for you to give me a follow there
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so you can learn about new episodes and new things
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that I share on social media. Now to get us started,
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my first interview was with Dr. Teresa Regan,
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an adult neuropsychologist. We talked about approaching
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autism like a detective. You know, if spouses
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start to talk to each other about, after I come
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home from work, you get really energized by talking
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to me about our day and connecting. And I realize
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about myself that I come home and I need alone
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time before I can even find my words, you know.
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To be able to be a detective is, wow, isn't that
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interesting? We're different people and we have
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a nervous system. And so I just try to give people
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ways to understand themselves and each other
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so that we can be detectives and partners instead
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of constantly just reminding people how they're
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falling short. I really like Dr. Regan's nonjudgmental
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approach to being like a detective. where you
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can look at your behaviors or look at how you're
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feeling and say, you know, we may feel different
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things or need different things right now. That
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just means we have different nervous systems
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and we have different, you know, our brains work
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in different ways. Not necessarily good or bad.
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It's just one different way that we can accommodate
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each other. My next episode is with Rachel Morgan
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-Trimmer, a neurodiversity expert from the UK.
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We talked about the importance of being open
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to people. There's a lot to be said for. meeting
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people where they are and not making assumptions
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and understanding that people don't have the
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same experiences as you. Just because somebody
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is speaking very directly doesn't mean that they're
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trying to be rude or because they're being particular
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about something or if they're sharing a lot about
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their special interests. You can meet them halfway.
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You don't have to go, oh, that person's a bit
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weird and walk off. I really like this advice
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because autistic people can tend to be judged
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poorly. for no reason of their own, whether it's
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speaking in a different way than you're used
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to or just not being sure how to interact in
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this environment. And I really like what Rachel
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said about meeting people where they are. Don't
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make assumptions and just approach people from
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a sense place of non -judgment and acceptance.
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My next guest was Dr. Leigh Burdett -Williams,
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the executive director of the College Autism
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Network. And we talked about how to figure out
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if a new employer will be a place that supports
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neurodiverse people. Well, I think one... pretty
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safe way of approaching it is to just ask about
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their commitment to different work styles and
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learning styles. You know, what kind of flexibility
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is offered for people who, you know, perhaps
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don't learn or work in the most conventional
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ways. And an employer who's alert to the idea
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of neurodiversity is going to kind of clue in
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to that question as like, well, you know, we
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do have some sensory, low sensory spaces, or
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we let people work with noise canceling headphones,
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or we, you know, sometimes we have, you know,
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social activities, but we always make sure that
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nobody is required to attend those or, you know,
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so you're just kind of looking for hints that
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they get it. I like the idea of looking for hints
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that an employer will be supportive. Because
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an employer who says they support neurodiverse
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people or autistic people may not necessarily
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have your best interests in mind. But looking
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for hints and asking about different work styles
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or different ways that they support people that
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are currently working there can be a good way
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of sussing out whether they're actually trustworthy
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and whether they would be supportive or not.
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My next episode was with Dr. David Krauss, a
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psychologist who talked about how autistic people
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can react to rejection and how we can move forward
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past that rejection to make our world larger.
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Neurodivergent people, people diagnosed with
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autism, autistic people. have spent a lifetime
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having other people react to them in negative
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ways. Being rejected, being excluded, being on
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the outside, being made fun of, feeling ashamed,
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feeling anxious, things like that. So how do
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we protect ourselves from things that have been
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hard or something that reminds us of a past scary
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time or a past upsetting time? We avoid. closed
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down. We isolate. We don't go out or, you know,
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we don't try to go and talk to those people.
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We don't try to go to that meetup group with
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the thing I'm interested in or something like
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that because, you know, bad things have happened
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before. And trying to help people be less anxious,
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work through those things that have happened
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before to realize, oh, I was a kid or I was an
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adolescent. Or that was a different time and
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place. This is different. I'm different. I can
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handle this. I really like that advice because
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a lot of it boils down to essentially forgiving
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your past self and realizing, you know, you may
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have been hurt before and your reactions now
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may be a way of protecting yourself now. But
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if you want to make your world larger and grow
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and really reach what you're capable of, it's
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important to move beyond that and realize that
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you're in a different place. You have different
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skills. Now you can handle these challenges.
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My next episode was with Dr. Jessica Hickstead,
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a researcher and advocate for people with invisible
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disabilities. We talked about how to ask for
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accommodations without disclosing your own disability.
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So, but there are ways to not disclose and still
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get the help. And it's making it look like you're
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a very, you know, outgoing individual that you
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want to be a better employee. So it's like, hey,
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boss, can... Can I send you an email? I want
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to make sure I've got prioritized what you think
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are my first steps, what needs to be working
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on first. So, you know, if you've got several
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different projects, that's not saying, oh my
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God, I'm a little overwhelmed. I don't know where
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to start. It's making you look like you're reaching
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out to your boss to make sure you're on the same
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page. And, you know, you want to be your best
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productive self. I like Jessica's way of phrasing
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that there, where you're asking to be your best
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productive self. Instead of making it a big deal
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about an accommodation or worrying about what
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to ask for, If you phrase it as this will help
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me be the most productive person I can be, that's
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one way that a manager might really appreciate
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what you're asking for and be more inclined to
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give you the accommodation. My next guest was
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Dr. Ashley DeMarcena, an associate research professor
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who works on giving communication strategies
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to autistic people and their non -autistic communication
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partners. Oftentimes the examples that I give
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are basically, I mean, they apply to anyone and
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those things would be like, ask people, check
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in with people about what they actually mean.
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If you don't understand someone, don't make assumptions
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about what you think they mean, ask them. If
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you're not sure you've been understood, check
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in, right? So it's a lot of checking in to make
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sure there's shared meaning, not making assumptions
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based on people's nonverbal communication or
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based on the context. I feel like I use checking
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in strategies in basically every conversation
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that I have. And whether that's something as
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simple as, you know, let me make sure I understand
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what you're saying or from my understanding what
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you're saying is, or let me try and rephrase
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what you're saying. You know, there are a lot
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of different ways you can check in in the episode,
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a lot of advice on how we can do that and communicate
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better. I then talked to Scott Spann, a speaker
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and coach, about how neurodiverse people can
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be just as successful as neurotypical people
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at work. And that's an interesting one to work
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through anyway. But, you know, one of the things
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I say around the perception piece in the workplace
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is no. Flat out, period. No, full stop. Neurodiverse
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individuals themselves are not any less efficient
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or any less productive than non -neurodiverse
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or neurotypical individuals, especially if you
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provide them with the reasonable accommodations
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to be successful. I think that's an important
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message for anyone who might be struggling with
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imposter syndrome or just feeling that they'll
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never be able to measure up to their neurotypical
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colleagues. You absolutely can, especially for
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getting the accommodations that you need to be
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successful. and to get you at the same level
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as neurotypical colleagues. My next guest was
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Dr. Jennifer Cork, a doctor of social work. We
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talked about how cognitive behavioral therapy
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can work for autistic people as long as it's
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targeted appropriately. It is true that cognitive
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behavior therapy that is created for neurotypical
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people does not work as well for autistic people.
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It's, you know, approaching autism as a culture.
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if you do cbt that was created for middle class
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white people in the united states and try to
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use it in japan or india it is not going to work
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as well so if you're trying to apply this this
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modality to autistic people without consideration
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of that intersectionality of autism and mental
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health, then it isn't going to work as well.
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What research has shown is that if you have CBT
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that is adequately accommodating and taking into
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account the autism part, then it does work. That's
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definitely an important lesson for me personally,
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as I trained to become a therapist myself. I
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think it's very important for autistic people
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to hear that who are going through therapy themselves.
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You know, make sure that the therapist you're
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working through is aware of autism and neurodiverse,
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the current view of neurodiversity, and that
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the therapy you're going through is targeted
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towards autistic people and will work with your
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brain. Next up, I talked to Katie Treloar, an
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executive function coach. We talked about why
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it's important to have strategies to build executive
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function skills, and why it doesn't mean you're
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lazy, stupid, or crazy. Yes, because I say this
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to clients all the time, like name it to tame
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it. So there was a book written in the early
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90s by two women who had been diagnosed with
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ADHD later in life. And the title is You Mean
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I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy, because their
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whole life they had gone through being labeled
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as those things when in fact, it wasn't any of
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those things. It was just an underdeveloped executive
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function skills. So they weren't lazy. They were
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just struggling with task initiation. They weren't
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crazy. They were just struggling with organization
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and planning. And so name it to tame it. So it's
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not that I'm lazy and can't get to meetings on
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time and prepared. I just don't have the systems
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and strategies built to make me successful in
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doing those things. I thought that was another
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important lesson for me, especially as someone
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who Always, always calling myself lazy or stupid
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whenever I get things wrong. It's not a good
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thing. Don't do that. You know, it's a matter
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of executive function skills and those skills
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are things you can build. And so instead of just
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getting yourself up over them, there are strategies
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you can learn and tools you can use and ways
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to get those executive function skills improved
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and help you be productive. The last of the 10
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interviews that I did that I'll include today
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was with Eric Gallery. the Director of Navigation
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for the Autism Alliance of Michigan. And we talked
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about the importance of having shared spaces
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for autistic people and why the Autism Alliance
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of Michigan is putting together conferences to
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bring together autistic people and their families.
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And really, those conferences are meant to hone
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in on two essential items. One, getting resources
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and getting knowledge and education. out to community
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members, out to families, out to individuals,
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so that they're, A, aware of what's available
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and accessible in their area, whether that's
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connecting with an external provider, connecting
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with us. And then the other big point is we want
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.139
to be able to have an event that is bringing
00:13:03.139 --> 00:13:07.580
community together, bringing individuals, whether
00:13:07.580 --> 00:13:10.759
they're autistic or they're caregivers or they're
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.070
providers. But creating a shared space and, you
00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:16.090
know, really trying to tap into that whole sense
00:13:16.090 --> 00:13:20.149
of creating belonging and really just an inclusive
00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:23.289
spot for folks. Community is something that I've
00:13:23.289 --> 00:13:24.950
really come to appreciate more as I've created
00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:26.950
this podcast and heard from other autistic people.
00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:29.210
And some of my upcoming interviews will focus
00:13:29.210 --> 00:13:32.309
a lot more on that as well. Well, that's 10 tips
00:13:32.309 --> 00:13:35.529
from 10 episodes. It's been a lot of fun putting
00:13:35.529 --> 00:13:37.690
this podcast together. I really hope you appreciate
00:13:37.690 --> 00:13:40.200
the tips and at least one of them. hopefully
00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.639
at least one, maybe more, really resonates with
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.399
you and is something you can take with you. And
00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.519
if you really like that particular tip, go ahead
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.960
and give the full episode a listen. They're all
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.779
available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever
00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:53.980
you get podcasts. So I'd love for you to listen.
00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:56.179
And I also wanted to mention at the end of each
00:13:56.179 --> 00:13:58.259
interview episode, I have a section called the
00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:00.179
Special Interest Spotlight, where you can learn
00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:03.029
about my guest's special interest. as well as
00:14:03.029 --> 00:14:04.610
let me know which tip resonated with you the
00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:06.889
most. I'm putting together most social media
00:14:06.889 --> 00:14:09.570
posts. You can respond to me on Instagram or
00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:12.429
LinkedIn, or you can send me an email at kevin
00:14:12.429 --> 00:14:15.169
at workingclassautistic .com. Thanks for listening,
00:14:15.269 --> 00:14:18.070
and I'll see you next time. Hey, thanks for listening
00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:20.330
all the way to the end. You can find show notes
00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:23.509
at workingclassautistic .com. I hope you enjoyed
00:14:23.509 --> 00:14:25.669
this episode, and if you did, I would really
00:14:25.669 --> 00:14:27.549
appreciate it if you left a review in your podcast
00:14:27.549 --> 00:14:30.120
app or shared the episode with a friend. This
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.740
entire podcast is a one man operation, so anything
00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:34.419
you can do to help promote would go a long way.
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.860
See you next time.
00:00:01.029 --> 00:00:03.290
Autistic people have so much to offer, and yet
00:00:03.290 --> 00:00:05.429
so many of us struggle to fit into a world that
00:00:05.429 --> 00:00:07.650
isn't designed for us. I want to help change
00:00:07.650 --> 00:00:10.390
that. Welcome to the Working Class Autistic Podcast,
00:00:10.789 --> 00:00:12.810
where I talk to experts and discuss ways for
00:00:12.810 --> 00:00:14.570
autistic adults to thrive and reach their full
00:00:14.570 --> 00:00:17.129
potential at work and beyond. I'm your host,
00:00:17.250 --> 00:00:22.949
Kevin Joseph. Now, let's get to work. Hello,
00:00:23.050 --> 00:00:25.230
everyone, and welcome to the Working Class Autistic
00:00:25.230 --> 00:00:28.199
Podcast. My name is Kevin. and I'm a former tech
00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:30.140
worker making a career change to become a therapist.
00:00:31.059 --> 00:00:33.140
Last week, I released the 10th interview episode
00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:35.380
of the podcast, and in honor of that milestone,
00:00:35.659 --> 00:00:37.079
I thought it'd be fun to grab a quote from each
00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.079
interview I've conducted so far, and release
00:00:39.079 --> 00:00:41.320
a sort of sample platter episode, where you can
00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:43.320
get quick, bite -sized insights from various
00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:45.640
different episodes of the podcast. Before we
00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:47.280
get started, I wanted to mention that I've recently
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.600
created new social media handles for the podcast.
00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:52.179
I'm not really good at social media in general.
00:00:52.299 --> 00:00:54.079
It's just not something I use very much personally.
00:00:54.259 --> 00:00:56.359
And so it's something I'm really struggling with
00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:58.960
for the podcast too. But it's something I want
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:01.460
to get better at because it's the way to help
00:01:01.460 --> 00:01:04.099
new people find the podcast and help more people
00:01:04.099 --> 00:01:06.959
find my work and the things that I do. So I put
00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:09.519
links to my Instagram handle, Reddit username,
00:01:09.739 --> 00:01:13.260
and LinkedIn account in that show notes. And
00:01:13.260 --> 00:01:14.900
I would love for you to give me a follow there
00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:16.859
so you can learn about new episodes and new things
00:01:16.859 --> 00:01:19.849
that I share on social media. Now to get us started,
00:01:20.030 --> 00:01:22.450
my first interview was with Dr. Teresa Regan,
00:01:22.590 --> 00:01:25.549
an adult neuropsychologist. We talked about approaching
00:01:25.549 --> 00:01:28.609
autism like a detective. You know, if spouses
00:01:28.609 --> 00:01:31.790
start to talk to each other about, after I come
00:01:31.790 --> 00:01:35.030
home from work, you get really energized by talking
00:01:35.030 --> 00:01:39.230
to me about our day and connecting. And I realize
00:01:39.230 --> 00:01:43.849
about myself that I come home and I need alone
00:01:43.849 --> 00:01:46.909
time before I can even find my words, you know.
00:01:48.650 --> 00:01:53.689
To be able to be a detective is, wow, isn't that
00:01:53.689 --> 00:01:57.329
interesting? We're different people and we have
00:01:57.329 --> 00:02:01.069
a nervous system. And so I just try to give people
00:02:01.069 --> 00:02:04.209
ways to understand themselves and each other
00:02:04.209 --> 00:02:08.629
so that we can be detectives and partners instead
00:02:08.629 --> 00:02:12.469
of constantly just reminding people how they're
00:02:12.469 --> 00:02:16.129
falling short. I really like Dr. Regan's nonjudgmental
00:02:16.129 --> 00:02:18.689
approach to being like a detective. where you
00:02:18.689 --> 00:02:20.650
can look at your behaviors or look at how you're
00:02:20.650 --> 00:02:23.409
feeling and say, you know, we may feel different
00:02:23.409 --> 00:02:25.909
things or need different things right now. That
00:02:25.909 --> 00:02:27.330
just means we have different nervous systems
00:02:27.330 --> 00:02:29.110
and we have different, you know, our brains work
00:02:29.110 --> 00:02:31.090
in different ways. Not necessarily good or bad.
00:02:31.210 --> 00:02:33.889
It's just one different way that we can accommodate
00:02:33.889 --> 00:02:36.530
each other. My next episode is with Rachel Morgan
00:02:36.530 --> 00:02:38.949
-Trimmer, a neurodiversity expert from the UK.
00:02:39.330 --> 00:02:41.090
We talked about the importance of being open
00:02:41.090 --> 00:02:44.860
to people. There's a lot to be said for. meeting
00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:47.039
people where they are and not making assumptions
00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:48.960
and understanding that people don't have the
00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.599
same experiences as you. Just because somebody
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:55.120
is speaking very directly doesn't mean that they're
00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:59.060
trying to be rude or because they're being particular
00:02:59.060 --> 00:03:02.620
about something or if they're sharing a lot about
00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:05.680
their special interests. You can meet them halfway.
00:03:05.740 --> 00:03:07.219
You don't have to go, oh, that person's a bit
00:03:07.219 --> 00:03:09.879
weird and walk off. I really like this advice
00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:11.599
because autistic people can tend to be judged
00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:15.020
poorly. for no reason of their own, whether it's
00:03:15.020 --> 00:03:16.280
speaking in a different way than you're used
00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:18.819
to or just not being sure how to interact in
00:03:18.819 --> 00:03:20.960
this environment. And I really like what Rachel
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.099
said about meeting people where they are. Don't
00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:26.180
make assumptions and just approach people from
00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:28.159
a sense place of non -judgment and acceptance.
00:03:29.139 --> 00:03:31.300
My next guest was Dr. Leigh Burdett -Williams,
00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:33.139
the executive director of the College Autism
00:03:33.139 --> 00:03:35.159
Network. And we talked about how to figure out
00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:36.939
if a new employer will be a place that supports
00:03:36.939 --> 00:03:40.319
neurodiverse people. Well, I think one... pretty
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.000
safe way of approaching it is to just ask about
00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.479
their commitment to different work styles and
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:52.500
learning styles. You know, what kind of flexibility
00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:56.780
is offered for people who, you know, perhaps
00:03:56.780 --> 00:04:00.719
don't learn or work in the most conventional
00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:07.379
ways. And an employer who's alert to the idea
00:04:07.379 --> 00:04:10.310
of neurodiversity is going to kind of clue in
00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:12.990
to that question as like, well, you know, we
00:04:12.990 --> 00:04:15.650
do have some sensory, low sensory spaces, or
00:04:15.650 --> 00:04:18.370
we let people work with noise canceling headphones,
00:04:18.509 --> 00:04:24.610
or we, you know, sometimes we have, you know,
00:04:24.610 --> 00:04:27.310
social activities, but we always make sure that
00:04:27.310 --> 00:04:30.709
nobody is required to attend those or, you know,
00:04:30.709 --> 00:04:33.110
so you're just kind of looking for hints that
00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:36.170
they get it. I like the idea of looking for hints
00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:38.220
that an employer will be supportive. Because
00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:39.860
an employer who says they support neurodiverse
00:04:39.860 --> 00:04:41.939
people or autistic people may not necessarily
00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:43.860
have your best interests in mind. But looking
00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:45.560
for hints and asking about different work styles
00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:47.879
or different ways that they support people that
00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:49.360
are currently working there can be a good way
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.360
of sussing out whether they're actually trustworthy
00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:52.899
and whether they would be supportive or not.
00:04:53.339 --> 00:04:56.019
My next episode was with Dr. David Krauss, a
00:04:56.019 --> 00:04:57.779
psychologist who talked about how autistic people
00:04:57.779 --> 00:05:00.079
can react to rejection and how we can move forward
00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:01.939
past that rejection to make our world larger.
00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:04.839
Neurodivergent people, people diagnosed with
00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:08.089
autism, autistic people. have spent a lifetime
00:05:08.089 --> 00:05:11.329
having other people react to them in negative
00:05:11.329 --> 00:05:15.689
ways. Being rejected, being excluded, being on
00:05:15.689 --> 00:05:19.170
the outside, being made fun of, feeling ashamed,
00:05:19.769 --> 00:05:23.629
feeling anxious, things like that. So how do
00:05:23.629 --> 00:05:26.569
we protect ourselves from things that have been
00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.509
hard or something that reminds us of a past scary
00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:35.519
time or a past upsetting time? We avoid. closed
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:40.860
down. We isolate. We don't go out or, you know,
00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.220
we don't try to go and talk to those people.
00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:47.079
We don't try to go to that meetup group with
00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:48.939
the thing I'm interested in or something like
00:05:48.939 --> 00:05:51.319
that because, you know, bad things have happened
00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:56.060
before. And trying to help people be less anxious,
00:05:56.300 --> 00:05:59.060
work through those things that have happened
00:05:59.060 --> 00:06:03.160
before to realize, oh, I was a kid or I was an
00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.930
adolescent. Or that was a different time and
00:06:05.930 --> 00:06:09.149
place. This is different. I'm different. I can
00:06:09.149 --> 00:06:11.670
handle this. I really like that advice because
00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:13.810
a lot of it boils down to essentially forgiving
00:06:13.810 --> 00:06:16.410
your past self and realizing, you know, you may
00:06:16.410 --> 00:06:19.709
have been hurt before and your reactions now
00:06:19.709 --> 00:06:22.350
may be a way of protecting yourself now. But
00:06:22.350 --> 00:06:24.269
if you want to make your world larger and grow
00:06:24.269 --> 00:06:27.769
and really reach what you're capable of, it's
00:06:27.769 --> 00:06:31.050
important to move beyond that and realize that
00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:32.550
you're in a different place. You have different
00:06:32.550 --> 00:06:35.050
skills. Now you can handle these challenges.
00:06:35.649 --> 00:06:37.910
My next episode was with Dr. Jessica Hickstead,
00:06:38.050 --> 00:06:40.250
a researcher and advocate for people with invisible
00:06:40.250 --> 00:06:42.569
disabilities. We talked about how to ask for
00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:44.410
accommodations without disclosing your own disability.
00:06:45.230 --> 00:06:48.589
So, but there are ways to not disclose and still
00:06:48.589 --> 00:06:50.649
get the help. And it's making it look like you're
00:06:50.649 --> 00:06:55.470
a very, you know, outgoing individual that you
00:06:55.470 --> 00:06:59.129
want to be a better employee. So it's like, hey,
00:06:59.209 --> 00:07:01.439
boss, can... Can I send you an email? I want
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.540
to make sure I've got prioritized what you think
00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:06.339
are my first steps, what needs to be working
00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:08.079
on first. So, you know, if you've got several
00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:09.819
different projects, that's not saying, oh my
00:07:09.819 --> 00:07:11.740
God, I'm a little overwhelmed. I don't know where
00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:14.560
to start. It's making you look like you're reaching
00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:16.779
out to your boss to make sure you're on the same
00:07:16.779 --> 00:07:19.800
page. And, you know, you want to be your best
00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.519
productive self. I like Jessica's way of phrasing
00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:24.180
that there, where you're asking to be your best
00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:26.680
productive self. Instead of making it a big deal
00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.040
about an accommodation or worrying about what
00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.759
to ask for, If you phrase it as this will help
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.680
me be the most productive person I can be, that's
00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:36.600
one way that a manager might really appreciate
00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.740
what you're asking for and be more inclined to
00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:42.800
give you the accommodation. My next guest was
00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.459
Dr. Ashley DeMarcena, an associate research professor
00:07:45.459 --> 00:07:47.199
who works on giving communication strategies
00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:48.939
to autistic people and their non -autistic communication
00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:53.600
partners. Oftentimes the examples that I give
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:57.779
are basically, I mean, they apply to anyone and
00:07:57.779 --> 00:08:01.709
those things would be like, ask people, check
00:08:01.709 --> 00:08:04.149
in with people about what they actually mean.
00:08:04.889 --> 00:08:09.209
If you don't understand someone, don't make assumptions
00:08:09.209 --> 00:08:13.209
about what you think they mean, ask them. If
00:08:13.209 --> 00:08:15.629
you're not sure you've been understood, check
00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:19.310
in, right? So it's a lot of checking in to make
00:08:19.310 --> 00:08:23.389
sure there's shared meaning, not making assumptions
00:08:23.389 --> 00:08:27.949
based on people's nonverbal communication or
00:08:27.949 --> 00:08:30.490
based on the context. I feel like I use checking
00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:32.190
in strategies in basically every conversation
00:08:32.190 --> 00:08:34.250
that I have. And whether that's something as
00:08:34.250 --> 00:08:36.730
simple as, you know, let me make sure I understand
00:08:36.730 --> 00:08:38.830
what you're saying or from my understanding what
00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:41.610
you're saying is, or let me try and rephrase
00:08:41.610 --> 00:08:42.750
what you're saying. You know, there are a lot
00:08:42.750 --> 00:08:44.190
of different ways you can check in in the episode,
00:08:44.250 --> 00:08:46.289
a lot of advice on how we can do that and communicate
00:08:46.289 --> 00:08:49.269
better. I then talked to Scott Spann, a speaker
00:08:49.269 --> 00:08:51.230
and coach, about how neurodiverse people can
00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:52.889
be just as successful as neurotypical people
00:08:52.889 --> 00:08:55.490
at work. And that's an interesting one to work
00:08:55.490 --> 00:08:56.730
through anyway. But, you know, one of the things
00:08:56.730 --> 00:08:58.610
I say around the perception piece in the workplace
00:08:58.610 --> 00:09:03.090
is no. Flat out, period. No, full stop. Neurodiverse
00:09:03.090 --> 00:09:07.629
individuals themselves are not any less efficient
00:09:07.629 --> 00:09:11.090
or any less productive than non -neurodiverse
00:09:11.090 --> 00:09:13.509
or neurotypical individuals, especially if you
00:09:13.509 --> 00:09:16.029
provide them with the reasonable accommodations
00:09:16.029 --> 00:09:18.470
to be successful. I think that's an important
00:09:18.470 --> 00:09:20.110
message for anyone who might be struggling with
00:09:20.110 --> 00:09:21.990
imposter syndrome or just feeling that they'll
00:09:21.990 --> 00:09:24.110
never be able to measure up to their neurotypical
00:09:24.110 --> 00:09:26.669
colleagues. You absolutely can, especially for
00:09:26.669 --> 00:09:28.230
getting the accommodations that you need to be
00:09:28.230 --> 00:09:30.309
successful. and to get you at the same level
00:09:30.309 --> 00:09:32.929
as neurotypical colleagues. My next guest was
00:09:32.929 --> 00:09:35.649
Dr. Jennifer Cork, a doctor of social work. We
00:09:35.649 --> 00:09:37.190
talked about how cognitive behavioral therapy
00:09:37.190 --> 00:09:39.169
can work for autistic people as long as it's
00:09:39.169 --> 00:09:43.009
targeted appropriately. It is true that cognitive
00:09:43.009 --> 00:09:45.870
behavior therapy that is created for neurotypical
00:09:45.870 --> 00:09:49.690
people does not work as well for autistic people.
00:09:50.009 --> 00:09:52.549
It's, you know, approaching autism as a culture.
00:09:53.179 --> 00:09:56.720
if you do cbt that was created for middle class
00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:59.580
white people in the united states and try to
00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:03.259
use it in japan or india it is not going to work
00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:07.480
as well so if you're trying to apply this this
00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.759
modality to autistic people without consideration
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:15.259
of that intersectionality of autism and mental
00:10:15.259 --> 00:10:18.919
health, then it isn't going to work as well.
00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:23.600
What research has shown is that if you have CBT
00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:28.019
that is adequately accommodating and taking into
00:10:28.019 --> 00:10:32.799
account the autism part, then it does work. That's
00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:34.379
definitely an important lesson for me personally,
00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:37.139
as I trained to become a therapist myself. I
00:10:37.139 --> 00:10:38.559
think it's very important for autistic people
00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:40.379
to hear that who are going through therapy themselves.
00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:42.159
You know, make sure that the therapist you're
00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.059
working through is aware of autism and neurodiverse,
00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:47.299
the current view of neurodiversity, and that
00:10:47.299 --> 00:10:48.740
the therapy you're going through is targeted
00:10:48.740 --> 00:10:50.779
towards autistic people and will work with your
00:10:50.779 --> 00:10:53.720
brain. Next up, I talked to Katie Treloar, an
00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:55.860
executive function coach. We talked about why
00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:57.480
it's important to have strategies to build executive
00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:59.440
function skills, and why it doesn't mean you're
00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:03.830
lazy, stupid, or crazy. Yes, because I say this
00:11:03.830 --> 00:11:05.990
to clients all the time, like name it to tame
00:11:05.990 --> 00:11:08.429
it. So there was a book written in the early
00:11:08.429 --> 00:11:12.230
90s by two women who had been diagnosed with
00:11:12.230 --> 00:11:14.730
ADHD later in life. And the title is You Mean
00:11:14.730 --> 00:11:17.250
I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy, because their
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whole life they had gone through being labeled
00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:23.370
as those things when in fact, it wasn't any of
00:11:23.370 --> 00:11:26.179
those things. It was just an underdeveloped executive
00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:28.320
function skills. So they weren't lazy. They were
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.080
just struggling with task initiation. They weren't
00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.080
crazy. They were just struggling with organization
00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:38.340
and planning. And so name it to tame it. So it's
00:11:38.340 --> 00:11:40.720
not that I'm lazy and can't get to meetings on
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.960
time and prepared. I just don't have the systems
00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:47.779
and strategies built to make me successful in
00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:50.179
doing those things. I thought that was another
00:11:50.179 --> 00:11:51.840
important lesson for me, especially as someone
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who Always, always calling myself lazy or stupid
00:11:54.269 --> 00:11:57.490
whenever I get things wrong. It's not a good
00:11:57.490 --> 00:12:00.330
thing. Don't do that. You know, it's a matter
00:12:00.330 --> 00:12:02.950
of executive function skills and those skills
00:12:02.950 --> 00:12:05.169
are things you can build. And so instead of just
00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:07.730
getting yourself up over them, there are strategies
00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:10.690
you can learn and tools you can use and ways
00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:14.690
to get those executive function skills improved
00:12:14.690 --> 00:12:17.970
and help you be productive. The last of the 10
00:12:17.970 --> 00:12:20.110
interviews that I did that I'll include today
00:12:20.110 --> 00:12:22.570
was with Eric Gallery. the Director of Navigation
00:12:22.570 --> 00:12:24.850
for the Autism Alliance of Michigan. And we talked
00:12:24.850 --> 00:12:26.210
about the importance of having shared spaces
00:12:26.210 --> 00:12:28.570
for autistic people and why the Autism Alliance
00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:30.570
of Michigan is putting together conferences to
00:12:30.570 --> 00:12:32.070
bring together autistic people and their families.
00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:36.610
And really, those conferences are meant to hone
00:12:36.610 --> 00:12:40.070
in on two essential items. One, getting resources
00:12:40.070 --> 00:12:43.639
and getting knowledge and education. out to community
00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.080
members, out to families, out to individuals,
00:12:46.299 --> 00:12:49.720
so that they're, A, aware of what's available
00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:53.600
and accessible in their area, whether that's
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.879
connecting with an external provider, connecting
00:12:55.879 --> 00:13:01.080
with us. And then the other big point is we want
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.139
to be able to have an event that is bringing
00:13:03.139 --> 00:13:07.580
community together, bringing individuals, whether
00:13:07.580 --> 00:13:10.759
they're autistic or they're caregivers or they're
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.070
providers. But creating a shared space and, you
00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:16.090
know, really trying to tap into that whole sense
00:13:16.090 --> 00:13:20.149
of creating belonging and really just an inclusive
00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:23.289
spot for folks. Community is something that I've
00:13:23.289 --> 00:13:24.950
really come to appreciate more as I've created
00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:26.950
this podcast and heard from other autistic people.
00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:29.210
And some of my upcoming interviews will focus
00:13:29.210 --> 00:13:32.309
a lot more on that as well. Well, that's 10 tips
00:13:32.309 --> 00:13:35.529
from 10 episodes. It's been a lot of fun putting
00:13:35.529 --> 00:13:37.690
this podcast together. I really hope you appreciate
00:13:37.690 --> 00:13:40.200
the tips and at least one of them. hopefully
00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.639
at least one, maybe more, really resonates with
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.399
you and is something you can take with you. And
00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.519
if you really like that particular tip, go ahead
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.960
and give the full episode a listen. They're all
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.779
available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever
00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:53.980
you get podcasts. So I'd love for you to listen.
00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:56.179
And I also wanted to mention at the end of each
00:13:56.179 --> 00:13:58.259
interview episode, I have a section called the
00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:00.179
Special Interest Spotlight, where you can learn
00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:03.029
about my guest's special interest. as well as
00:14:03.029 --> 00:14:04.610
let me know which tip resonated with you the
00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:06.889
most. I'm putting together most social media
00:14:06.889 --> 00:14:09.570
posts. You can respond to me on Instagram or
00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:12.429
LinkedIn, or you can send me an email at kevin
00:14:12.429 --> 00:14:15.169
at workingclassautistic .com. Thanks for listening,
00:14:15.269 --> 00:14:18.070
and I'll see you next time. Hey, thanks for listening
00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:20.330
all the way to the end. You can find show notes
00:14:20.330 --> 00:14:23.509
at workingclassautistic .com. I hope you enjoyed
00:14:23.509 --> 00:14:25.669
this episode, and if you did, I would really
00:14:25.669 --> 00:14:27.549
appreciate it if you left a review in your podcast
00:14:27.549 --> 00:14:30.120
app or shared the episode with a friend. This
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.740
entire podcast is a one man operation, so anything
00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:34.419
you can do to help promote would go a long way.
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.860
See you next time.
