MCP Security, Framework Fatigue, and AI Agents with Will Johnson (Presented by CodeRabbit)

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Welcome to St.Tat.
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Welcome to a brand new episode of the front-end happy hour podcast.
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Welcome to this week's JS Party.
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Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and whatnot.
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With your hosts Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles William Carpenter the third.
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That's right Charles, we drink whiskey and talk about web development.
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I mean, it's all in the name, it's not that deep.
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This is Whiskey Web and whatnot do not adjust your set.
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Whiskey Web and whatnot is brought to you by...
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Hey, what's up everybody? This is Whiskey Web and whatnot with your hosts.
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Robby the Wagner and Adam Thomas Argyle, the nerd.
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I'm here y'all, what's up?
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We are all here. We have a guest here. Would you like to tell the folks
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who we have here, Adam?
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Oh, yes, I would.
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Today, we have senior developer advocate at AuthZero,
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aka head instructor of so many lessons the site had to show pagination.
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K-pop team and hunters karaoke trout,
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kripper, rad dad, and killer web developer. Welcome, Will Johnson.
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Hey, everybody. Thanks for having me.
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Thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate it.
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Yeah, no problem. I'm glad to be here. I got my, I got my,
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my Jameson nice three triple triple triple triple triple triple. Hey,
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three three people on the show with three triple triples.
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Yeah, it's time to crack it open.
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Yeah, all right. Yeah, they get that pop.
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I'm kind of surprised this is twist. Is Jameson usually twist?
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Maybe they're just precise like that.
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So yeah, this is the triple triple. It is called that because it is triple distilled
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in triple casks of bourbon, sherry, and chestnut casks.
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It is something proof, 80 proof, and it is 80% corn and 20%
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melted barley from what I hear and four years old, I believe.
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They should have gone with three.
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Then it's a triple triple triple.
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Oh, I see. Yeah, keep the triple going.
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Yeah, three three three nine.
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If you're triple triple three times three triple triple.
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Yeah, nice. Yeah, three times three times three though.
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That's the really expensive one. The 27 years.
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Oh, this tastes different than I thought it would.
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Wow, that's got a lot going on.
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It does. No bite. Lots of sweet.
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Very true, no bite.
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Yeah, not in town alcohol. Definitely a lot of different woods.
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Low sweetness from the sherry, I think.
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I don't know.
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Having a hard time picking out particular notes.
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I've been really enjoying smelling an empty glass
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because then I feel like I get this more true, true scent of what's in there.
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I don't know. This is good that says.
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Well, influence ourselves here.
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It says toffee, cacao, and toasted almond.
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Also, there is, okay, that's on the outside.
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There's a spider crawling on the outside of mine.
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And I was like, are you on the inside? How are you alive?
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It's like that tequila that has snakes and scorpions inside?
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Have you seen those ones?
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Yeah, those are nuts.
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That's nuts.
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They was in like a lot of 90s movies.
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I thought I would experience that like a lot more than I've
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did, but I haven't seen one in person, but there was always in 90s movies.
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I haven't seen one in person either.
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I saw it in that TV show.
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Three sheets to the wind.
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Do you know, do you all know that show?
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It was this guy.
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It's actually very apropos for this show.
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This guy went around it and drank beer around the world.
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Actually, it wasn't just beer.
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He just got hammered everywhere around the world.
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And so he would find the locals.
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And he'd be like, what are you drinking?
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They should have.
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But yeah, three sheets is a reference to getting super drunk.
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And so he'd go to all these places, get hammered with the locals, drinking whatever they drink locally.
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Whether it was like a local rum was the thing that they were known for,
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or if it was a whiskey that they were known for, or a beer.
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And so then the next morning, he would then have the local hangover remedy.
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So that was the whole episode.
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Was you see him basically going from bar to bar and distillery to distillery,
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learning the history about why this place has this particular booze in this area,
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drinks a lot of the booze.
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Never really like stumbles around.
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It gets, you know, ridiculous, whatever.
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And then wakes up and up.
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But in one of those episodes, okay, sorry to bring it full circle.
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He drinks some of the rums that have snakes and stuff in them.
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And they just looked so gross.
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I was like, there's like a dead body in that thing.
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You're just going to pour it out and drink from the dead body juice.
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I'm like, that's death juice.
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Okay, that's fine.
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It was a good show.
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Yeah, I mean, it sounds.
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And there was especially the hangover cure part.
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Yeah, very funny remedies.
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Yeah.
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Sorry, I was going to say we have a rating system for whiskey on this show.
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We'll do it real quick before we forget.
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Zero to eight tentacles.
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Zero being the worst.
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Throw it out.
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Wouldn't clean your toilet with it.
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Eight being the best.
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Clear the shelves.
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Drink it.
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Nothing else.
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Four or five-ish middle of the road.
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What do you think, Adam?
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I'm liking it.
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I'm also tasting a little bit more caramel as we go in.
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I also kind of feel like I tend to get a lot of caramel.
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But it's just from that like sweetness, a little sticky.
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That's good.
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This one is better than the Jack Daniels Reserve from last week,
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which I gave quite a poor rating.
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I'm going to put this one in like a five and a half.
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I'm not sad.
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It's, yeah, the lack of bite is kind of, it's good.
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It's got a nice smoothness to it, which is nice.
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Cool.
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So anyway, you have five and a half out of me.
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Nice, nice.
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Will, what do you think?
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Well, honestly, this is my first whiskey ever.
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Get out of here.
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What?
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The fact that it is.
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So the fact that it didn't burn, you know,
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like I can actually like just drink it and, you know, kind of chill.
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I like that.
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So I'm going to give it a seven.
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Nice, nice.
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It's nice.
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It's nice.
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I don't know if we've had a lot of Irish ones on the show.
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I think this one is a lot more interesting than a couple of Irish ones I've had.
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I'm going to say, yeah, we'll give it a six.
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Pretty solid.
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Nice.
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Plus my son named James and so.
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I was just going to say you got to tell the story of why we picked this one.
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This is not an accident.
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Also, like it's just like the cat out of the bag there, though.
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So they can, you know, can't create any suspense.
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Yes, this is your kid's name.
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My best.
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That's okay.
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All right.
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So we have some lukewarm takes that we usually do on the show.
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We'll start with a fan favorite.
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Get rebase or get merged.
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I know rebase get a lot of heat, but let's go.
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Let's go rebase.
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Nice.
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I think you're in a rebase friendship zone right here.
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So I used to merge, but you know, now I rebase, although it work.
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It's called a re-stack.
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It's really annoying when you kind of go into these other environments that have
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get workflows, but they want to rename everything.
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Man, it's annoying.
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It was at Chrome too.
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When you're working on Chrome, you didn't really get normal get commands like
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everything was abstracted in some way.
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Shopify, we don't rebase.
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No one even says rebase.
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They stack.
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We re-stack or I'm going to stack off your stacker.
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Anyway, I don't mind the word stack.
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It's kind of nice, but still.
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Like, hey, rebase is the way.
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Yeah, it at least makes a little sense.
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It's not like, yeah, I'm going to pizza.
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Like, what?
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Oh, we lost a wheel.
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He didn't like my joke.
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He's got a hang in there.
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He was losing connection a little bit.
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So maybe got disconnected.
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Where he did what I was supposed to do.
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Sponsored by Verizon Fios.
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Sponsored by the sweet light fixture that I need behind me to eliminate all my stuff.
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Yeah, you're cool.
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Do you have new?
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You've got like a...
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I changed the colors.
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I changed the colors.
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No, I'm standing up so you can see my shelf.
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Usually you can't.
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Sick looks good.
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Yeah, you can almost see the Ember sign.
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It's right there.
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Says Ember.
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No one will ever know.
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Camera's too good.
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I can't read it.
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Live on Twitch just to you and I together.
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Yeah, I don't know what to do with my hands.
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Do you ever do the dad hand hip thing?
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I hate it.
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I do it all the time.
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I'm like, oh, my hands are on my hips.
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There's got to be a cooler place to put my hands.
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And it's not on my hips.
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I put them in my jacket pocket.
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I'm like, yeah, I'm still cool.
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I'm still young.
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I'm not a dad.
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I don't put my hands in this.
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You mean like the scolding pose?
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Yeah, man, like that.
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Yeah, just kind of, yeah, I'll just walk me like,
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what do you think you're doing?
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I'm like, I'll crap.
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I'm doing the thing.
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I got my hands on my hips.
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It's ridiculous.
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I'd all find myself doing that.
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Yeah, I usually go pockets.
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It depends on what I'm wearing, I guess.
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But I haven't had that issue.
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Pockets is good.
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I mean, I had a fun parenting thing the other day.
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We're like, they've been wrestling a lot more.
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Right?
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I have like two boys right?
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So they're like wrestling a bunch and usually someone cries.
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And then they go, oh, we got a wheel back.
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Anyway, my kids were beating so weird.
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That's the weird thing for your kids to say.
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Yeah.
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I got a wheel back yet.
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Oh, they were beating each other up, though.
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And they didn't want to get in trouble, though.
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They'd been getting in trouble a lot for like hurting each other.
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So like now they hurt each other and they suck it up.
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And I was like, that's good, though.
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I was like, yes, become stronger.
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00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.480
My children are wrestling and I suck it up.
256
00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:16.280
Yes.
257
00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:17.320
So yeah, mom's out of town.
258
00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:18.280
So there's no one to cry to.
259
00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:21.880
Because dad usually goes, oh, you hurt yourself wrestling.
260
00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:23.720
I was like, that's what you do.
261
00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:25.320
I'm like, I'm not here for that.
262
00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:31.320
Yeah, it's kind of funny like seeing things from the parent perspective.
263
00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.200
Because there's like, I've been through this a hundred times.
264
00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:35.480
And I know it's not that bad.
265
00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.080
But this is like your first time and it's so serious.
266
00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:42.200
And I'd be like, yeah, this is what happens when you wrestle.
267
00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.400
When you jump down six stairs, your legs want to hurt.
268
00:10:45.400 --> 00:10:46.840
Like this is the process.
269
00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:50.520
Yeah, I feel like it's tough because a lot of parents,
270
00:10:50.520 --> 00:10:51.960
you're on one side of the other usually.
271
00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.280
It's like, don't police it at all.
272
00:10:54.280 --> 00:10:56.280
Just let them get super hurt and they'll learn.
273
00:10:56.280 --> 00:10:58.840
Or like, you're trying to keep them from getting hurt.
274
00:10:59.560 --> 00:11:01.000
Like from everything.
275
00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:02.120
And I don't know.
276
00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:03.320
There's not really a happy medium.
277
00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:04.680
Because if you protect them sometimes,
278
00:11:04.680 --> 00:11:06.440
and they don't understand what getting hurt is.
279
00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:10.360
And like, yeah, I mean, like our son is like, oh, a knife.
280
00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:12.040
Like, let me just grab that by the sharp part.
281
00:11:12.040 --> 00:11:14.920
And I'm like, why don't do that, please?
282
00:11:14.920 --> 00:11:16.920
Like, I just told you not to do that.
283
00:11:16.920 --> 00:11:21.800
Yeah, you definitely, I think the world is your kid or your kids.
284
00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:23.560
Do you have one or two?
285
00:11:23.560 --> 00:11:24.440
I can't remember.
286
00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.720
My oldest is, oh, you're way off.
287
00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:28.840
I have six.
288
00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:30.280
So my oldest is nine to two.
289
00:11:30.280 --> 00:11:30.840
I am off.
290
00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:31.560
And this is eight.
291
00:11:33.400 --> 00:11:34.600
Dang.
292
00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:36.840
Yeah, you're ended on all sorts of stuff.
293
00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:38.520
Okay, so yeah, I'm seven and nine.
294
00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:41.320
And his are like all under four, right?
295
00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:44.360
Yeah, Finn is three and the twins are seven months today.
296
00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:45.720
Twins, cool.
297
00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:47.000
I want, we wanted twins.
298
00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:48.520
Didn't happen.
299
00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:51.320
But yeah, it's, uh, I mean, it's fun.
300
00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.760
But it's also a lot like, they're never calm at the same time.
301
00:11:58.120 --> 00:11:59.800
Or actually, we jump into more takes.
302
00:11:59.800 --> 00:12:00.680
What do you think?
303
00:12:00.680 --> 00:12:01.560
Dealer's choice.
304
00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:02.680
Adam, you got one you want to do?
305
00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:05.480
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm this, I'm partial to this one.
306
00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:08.600
I was reading an article the other day where someone said what I wanted them to.
307
00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:12.920
So will this is a question for you to say what I want you to or to say what you want?
308
00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:14.520
You get to know.
309
00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.400
Is CSS a programming language?
310
00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:21.400
Oh, man, that's a great question.
311
00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:24.200
Now, is it a programming language?
312
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.200
It depends on, I guess it depends on how you're using it.
313
00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:32.360
Because there are some things that you can programatically and mathematically do
314
00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:33.240
with CSS.
315
00:12:33.880 --> 00:12:37.720
But, you know, if you're just, you know, making a button round, I don't know.
316
00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:42.600
But if you're like making it change to how wide the pages and stuff like that,
317
00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.160
I feel like you are doing some programming there.
318
00:12:45.160 --> 00:12:46.840
So I guess it depends on what you're doing.
319
00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.000
That answer rocked my face, man.
320
00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:50.760
That was, I think that might be one of the best answers.
321
00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:52.840
Because yeah, you're right.
322
00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:54.680
If you're just changing the color to red,
323
00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:56.280
and you know, everyone feels successful,
324
00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:58.120
you're not necessarily a programmer.
325
00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:00.440
But you did write some code, I suppose.
326
00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:05.800
But if you're like legit writing loops and you're filtering over stuff
327
00:13:05.800 --> 00:13:07.240
and you're doing something very programmatic,
328
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:08.760
you're using trig functions,
329
00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:11.800
well, then you're definitely, so the person, the article I read was a hacker.
330
00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.320
The hacker was like, hey, look at what I can do with CSS.
331
00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.280
CSS is one of the next best things that you can use
332
00:13:18.280 --> 00:13:20.600
than JavaScript to do your hacking.
333
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.400
And they came up with this new hacking exploit using CSS
334
00:13:23.400 --> 00:13:25.240
and all this kind of interesting stuff.
335
00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.040
And they were quoted in the article as saying,
336
00:13:28.040 --> 00:13:31.160
CSS is a program, which like look at, look at what you can do.
337
00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:33.560
But yeah, maybe that should be the measurement.
338
00:13:33.560 --> 00:13:37.320
If you can exploit something and get into a system with it,
339
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.720
it has to be a programming like, yeah, that's pretty deep to do that with CSS.
340
00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.480
Yeah, yeah, I would not have thought of that.
341
00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:49.400
Today, my wife was looking at architectural digest
342
00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:50.760
to look at a color of a wall.
343
00:13:50.760 --> 00:13:52.600
Like there was a picture she had seen.
344
00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.040
And we load the page, all the pictures and like,
345
00:13:56.040 --> 00:13:58.760
text come in for like a second and then go away.
346
00:13:58.760 --> 00:14:00.520
Because it's like, you got to pay for this.
347
00:14:00.520 --> 00:14:04.120
And I'm like, wait, so they're there and you remove them now.
348
00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.440
Like you guys used to throw a like thing up over it.
349
00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:07.240
I could delete it.
350
00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:09.160
I was trying to find my way around all the stuff,
351
00:14:09.160 --> 00:14:12.360
but they like programmatically delete all the chunks of the page.
352
00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:16.120
They got like 25 little JavaScript scripts that like,
353
00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:16.840
delete everything.
354
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:18.120
And I'm like, holy shit.
355
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:21.160
Like this is some, it's good stuff, guys.
356
00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:21.640
Bravo.
357
00:14:21.640 --> 00:14:22.680
It is intense.
358
00:14:22.680 --> 00:14:24.760
Yeah, that's like those read more buttons where it's like,
359
00:14:24.760 --> 00:14:26.840
click the read more and then it just expands.
360
00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:28.760
I'm like, I'm going to do that myself.
361
00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:30.040
But you're right.
362
00:14:30.040 --> 00:14:32.600
If they are deleting or it's not even there,
363
00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:34.520
it's a totally different story.
364
00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:37.800
Yeah, I was impressed.
365
00:14:37.800 --> 00:14:39.880
What are you doing at a Auth0 right now, dude?
366
00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:40.680
And how long you've been there?
367
00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:44.040
I mean, at Auth0 for like four and a half years.
368
00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:46.120
I think I have four back in August.
369
00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:47.640
So yeah, I don't know.
370
00:14:47.640 --> 00:14:51.240
I have four, like almost four and a half years then.
371
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:52.360
It's been a good ride.
372
00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.280
Just, you know, especially now, I think I'm having the most fun
373
00:14:56.280 --> 00:14:58.840
just because of, you know, the changes, you know,
374
00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:02.840
with AI becoming like more prevalent and, you know,
375
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:05.880
finding the ways to like, you know, secure AI
376
00:15:05.880 --> 00:15:08.680
and tools that we use like wanted to try the,
377
00:15:09.400 --> 00:15:12.360
what I've been into lately is like MCP security.
378
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.480
Because MCP, you know, it just had its year birthday.
379
00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.880
I mean, it's been like a lot of changes with MCP
380
00:15:17.880 --> 00:15:20.440
and like how they do security and they're like, you know,
381
00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:22.120
still trying to figure it out.
382
00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:25.800
So it's been kind of cool like watching like that whole,
383
00:15:25.800 --> 00:15:28.680
you know, process of like, okay, we're going to do this.
384
00:15:28.680 --> 00:15:30.040
I don't think that's right.
385
00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:31.720
Let's, you know, try to do something different.
386
00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.800
Like one thing is like a big thing for like a few months
387
00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:38.840
was like dynamic client registration, letting the MCP
388
00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.080
servers like register on their own.
389
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.160
Then they was like, hold on.
390
00:15:43.160 --> 00:15:47.000
That's like way too free and then every time, you know,
391
00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.960
someone registers, you know, it creates like a different
392
00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.040
instance, even though it might be the same person.
393
00:15:52.040 --> 00:15:54.200
So now they got like two different identities
394
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.160
or 50 like however many they end up using.
395
00:15:57.160 --> 00:15:59.720
So like just recently this beg introduce something called
396
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:03.800
CIMD, which is client ID metadata documents.
397
00:16:03.880 --> 00:16:07.240
It is basically like a URL where you kind of like host your
398
00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:09.640
identity for your MCP server.
399
00:16:09.640 --> 00:16:13.160
Then it like validates if it actually belongs to this user.
400
00:16:13.160 --> 00:16:17.000
So kind of I made it more secure and then it didn't make a new one
401
00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.200
every single time you try to like register my MCP client.
402
00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.080
So that's lately what I've been into just checking out the
403
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:24.760
MCP security stuff.
404
00:16:24.760 --> 00:16:28.440
Nice. Yeah, I think that is a there's a lot of security
405
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.560
things that are going to come to light with AI that people
406
00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:33.400
are just like, oh, it's a paradise.
407
00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:36.040
We can just, you know, get all this stuff for free and
408
00:16:36.040 --> 00:16:39.240
everyone can do everything and, um, yeah, that's bad when
409
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:40.600
everyone can do everything actually.
410
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:44.280
There's a lot of security vulnerabilities that it seems like
411
00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:46.600
you can charge a lot of money through an MCP server too.
412
00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:48.760
So you got to that's why you got to protect them.
413
00:16:48.760 --> 00:16:51.640
So a lot of people have tokens that you have to so you go buy
414
00:16:51.640 --> 00:16:53.960
your token to give you even access to the MCP.
415
00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.360
So I'm sure a bunch of people are like, oh, I'm going to get
416
00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:57.320
around your token.
417
00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.240
What are some of your favorite hacks that you've seen?
418
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.800
Are there any funny ones where you're like, you know,
419
00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:05.080
have like a silly name like the midget on your back hack.
420
00:17:05.080 --> 00:17:07.640
And it's just like, it's like a little midget AI that's on the,
421
00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:08.920
I don't know, I'm making, I'm making that up.
422
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.720
But I'm like, are there any funny hacks that have happened to MCP
423
00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:12.520
server server?
424
00:17:12.520 --> 00:17:13.400
Yeah, what's up?
425
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.200
I mean, not that I've seen, I haven't seen any funny ones,
426
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.840
but I've definitely seen some ones that made me like,
427
00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:22.200
second guests like every like new tool that comes out.
428
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:24.200
So I'm not going to name any names,
429
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:27.080
but there are like lots of exploits where you'll like
430
00:17:27.080 --> 00:17:31.160
download a CLI and it'll somehow they find they
431
00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.040
even bypass the check that there's like a,
432
00:17:34.040 --> 00:17:37.320
that there's something like a, you know, malware or something in it.
433
00:17:37.320 --> 00:17:40.760
It kind of like approves itself and then it'll,
434
00:17:40.760 --> 00:17:45.080
it'll like run another program through your like AI agent in the CLI
435
00:17:45.080 --> 00:17:49.080
and you literally won't have any idea because it deletes his history of like,
436
00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:50.680
what it does and stuff like that.
437
00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.720
So I've seen some pretty intense ones, you know,
438
00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:55.400
that that calls a lot of like hiccups.
439
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.600
So now when something new comes out, I'm definitely not the,
440
00:17:58.600 --> 00:18:00.760
I'm not the first person to jump on and not not,
441
00:18:00.760 --> 00:18:03.080
not even know like a personal machine like I'm waiting.
442
00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:06.280
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
443
00:18:06.280 --> 00:18:08.280
I mean, that's anytime there's new stuff.
444
00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:10.840
I feel like everyone comes out of the woodwork to do that kind of thing.
445
00:18:10.840 --> 00:18:12.520
Like NFTs had that problem.
446
00:18:12.520 --> 00:18:13.880
Like, oh, yeah, a contract.
447
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:15.240
Let me sign that. Oops.
448
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.240
Like, yeah.
449
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:18.760
So I think like, you know,
450
00:18:18.760 --> 00:18:21.560
people are waiting for the new thing to have a little bit of hype
451
00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:24.760
and then like steal as much stuff as they can as fast as they can
452
00:18:24.760 --> 00:18:25.480
and get out of there.
453
00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:27.960
Yeah, exactly.
454
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.920
Also, I've heard through the grapevine that MCP had its year
455
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:37.320
and that might be its limited set of 15 minutes of fame that it had
456
00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:39.480
because skills are where it's at.
457
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:41.240
Can skills also hack someone?
458
00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.280
Have you found any exploits through that mechanism?
459
00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:48.680
So far, I haven't found any or heard of any at least.
460
00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.200
And like, I do look in quite a different like communities and for like,
461
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.120
you know, like cyber security and stuff like that to see what they're talking about.
462
00:18:56.120 --> 00:19:01.000
So far, I haven't seen any so, but you never know what might happen
463
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.640
as a like game popularity type thing skills are.
464
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:08.440
I fairly knew like a month or two old MCP is not necessarily old,
465
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:10.840
but it's a year old and it's getting more hype.
466
00:19:10.840 --> 00:19:14.280
So more people are, you know, it's becoming like an attack vector
467
00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:15.880
because more and more people are talking about it.
468
00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:17.720
More people are releasing servers.
469
00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:20.120
So if the thing, same thing happened with skills,
470
00:19:20.120 --> 00:19:23.080
then you know, might start to see more traffic.
471
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:27.160
But as of right now, I haven't seen anything going on with that.
472
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:31.560
Cool. Yeah, the only hack I saw was that if you dynamically create your skills,
473
00:19:31.560 --> 00:19:35.960
the skill that you created could be full of stuff that you didn't intend.
474
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:39.160
And so then every time you use the skill, it's coming with all this context
475
00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:41.800
or all this personal information that you didn't think it would.
476
00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:44.120
And I don't know, submitting it somewhere.
477
00:19:44.120 --> 00:19:47.640
But interesting. So you're following all the MCP hacks.
478
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.360
Since you see the next JS news that came out,
479
00:19:50.520 --> 00:19:52.680
everybody freaking out to update their builds.
480
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:54.200
Yeah, yeah, I did see that.
481
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.240
I did see that actually wrote a,
482
00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.080
well, I don't know, that was a different blog post,
483
00:19:59.080 --> 00:20:03.080
but I wrote a blog post about the next JS updates
484
00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:04.600
from like a couple months ago.
485
00:20:04.600 --> 00:20:07.160
But yeah, I did see the vulnerability that they had
486
00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.000
and just make sure you update your package as people.
487
00:20:12.520 --> 00:20:14.440
We're doing a lot of that going around.
488
00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.960
I don't know, which one's better to update constantly or to not
489
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.840
exactly. Well, I think in this case, you might want to update.
490
00:20:22.840 --> 00:20:24.280
But yeah, I get what you're saying,
491
00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:27.880
because then your update and then something else goes wrong.
492
00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.600
Yeah, always be updating. That's what I do.
493
00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:32.760
Just PNPM update. Every time you pull down the code,
494
00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:34.440
just update everything. That's fine.
495
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.960
That's what they want you to do. Robby, they want you updating.
496
00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:40.920
Twitter will tell me if there's a problem. It's okay.
497
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:41.640
Updates.
498
00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.840
Yes, Twitter will tell you it's a problem several times.
499
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:50.280
So if your kids are that old,
500
00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:53.400
how is K-pop demon hunters so popular in your house?
501
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.000
Are you the main driver of that?
502
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.440
No, I think it's all of us.
503
00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.240
I mean, the youngest is eight and then we got teenagers.
504
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:00.760
So I wouldn't say that I'm the main driver.
505
00:21:00.760 --> 00:21:03.240
It sounds like a, it's just a whole thing.
506
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.200
I think like, you know, the music is good.
507
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.360
You know, it's funny. It's goofy.
508
00:21:08.360 --> 00:21:09.800
Yeah, I didn't spend my son.
509
00:21:09.800 --> 00:21:12.680
So like as much as they do, like them walking around,
510
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:15.080
singing soda pop or your idol or anything like that.
511
00:21:15.080 --> 00:21:15.960
I didn't expect that.
512
00:21:16.040 --> 00:21:18.920
But yeah, I think that is just, I don't know.
513
00:21:19.560 --> 00:21:23.240
For me personally, it hit a lot of nostalgia notes.
514
00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:24.920
So you know, 2000s, you have like,
515
00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:29.240
Britney Spears and like in sync and then like the boy bands and like B2K
516
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:31.240
and Chris Brown and like all of that stuff.
517
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.280
So that was like my like era, like my heyday.
518
00:21:34.280 --> 00:21:36.840
So even like when just like when they decided to
519
00:21:36.840 --> 00:21:38.600
boys were formed in the street, I'm like,
520
00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:40.520
that's something somebody would have did and like, you know,
521
00:21:40.520 --> 00:21:42.120
2002 or something like.
522
00:21:42.120 --> 00:21:44.440
So it just hit a lot of nostalgia beats for me.
523
00:21:44.520 --> 00:21:45.080
It is really good.
524
00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:46.040
Robbie, have you seen it yet?
525
00:21:46.040 --> 00:21:47.080
K-pop demon hunters.
526
00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:49.560
I have Caitlin and I watched it because I wanted to see
527
00:21:49.560 --> 00:21:51.720
if we were going to let Finn watch it or not.
528
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.040
It doesn't have anything that's like too bad.
529
00:21:54.040 --> 00:21:57.560
But there's just enough of like, I don't remember the exact word.
530
00:21:57.560 --> 00:21:59.960
It's we're like, I'm a kill you or like whatever.
531
00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:01.160
We're like, we don't want him being like,
532
00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.160
I'm a stab and kill things like they do
533
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:04.440
with like the hands or whatever.
534
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.280
So like he already does that.
535
00:22:06.280 --> 00:22:07.640
I don't know where he got that from.
536
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:09.560
Like we never stop it yet.
537
00:22:09.560 --> 00:22:12.200
Yeah, guns guns show up.
538
00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:13.800
You're like, I don't know where you learned about guns.
539
00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:16.600
But as soon as they just smell the concept of a gun,
540
00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:17.960
they're like, look at the power.
541
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:19.240
And they just go around and I'm dating you.
542
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:19.880
You're like, dang it.
543
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:26.040
This just in whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs.
544
00:22:26.040 --> 00:22:27.080
That's right, Robbie.
545
00:22:27.080 --> 00:22:30.920
We're hearing reports of hats, sweaters and t-shirts
546
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.720
as well as a link to join our discord server.
547
00:22:34.360 --> 00:22:35.800
What's a discord server?
548
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.280
Just read the prompt or man.
549
00:22:38.280 --> 00:22:41.320
Hit subscribe, leave us a review on your favorite podcast app
550
00:22:41.320 --> 00:22:43.560
and tell your friends about our broadcast.
551
00:22:43.560 --> 00:22:45.640
It really does help us reach more people
552
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:46.680
and keeps the show growing.
553
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.960
All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
554
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:55.800
Yeah, but I mean, it's definitely a great movie.
555
00:22:55.800 --> 00:22:57.880
I feel like, you know, it got so much hype
556
00:22:57.880 --> 00:22:59.320
because the music is so good.
557
00:22:59.320 --> 00:23:02.440
And I feel like it was a easy gateway into K-pop
558
00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:05.720
for people who hadn't listened to anything K-pop before,
559
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.280
because like K-pop listens to a good bit of K-pop
560
00:23:08.280 --> 00:23:10.440
and like, it's all pretty dang good.
561
00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:11.960
But like, I think if you hadn't heard it before,
562
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.880
you're like, oh dang, this is really good.
563
00:23:14.760 --> 00:23:16.200
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
564
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:18.920
I think that it's a good gateway.
565
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:20.920
Yeah, I was initially turned off by like,
566
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:21.880
the name on my mind.
567
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:22.280
How did you get turned on, Will?
568
00:23:25.080 --> 00:23:27.000
No, I was initially turned off by the name like,
569
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:28.280
K-pop Dema Hunters.
570
00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:31.960
That sound, it just sounds like that's the cringiest thing
571
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:32.760
to ever exist.
572
00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:34.520
And then I had like a mental picture.
573
00:23:35.320 --> 00:23:37.160
Yeah, completely different of like,
574
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:38.280
what it was going to be like.
575
00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:40.120
I thought it was going to be like that.
576
00:23:40.120 --> 00:23:43.000
You know how the modern animation is like really bad
577
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.120
in comparison to, you know, the cartoons we grew up with
578
00:23:46.120 --> 00:23:46.600
or whatever.
579
00:23:46.600 --> 00:23:49.880
So I was like, I just had it, it looked really bad in my head.
580
00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:51.880
And then my daughter was like, she watched it,
581
00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:53.160
and she was like, do you want to watch it?
582
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.120
I think she was like, I think you might think it's cringed.
583
00:23:56.120 --> 00:23:57.640
Like, she wouldn't even sure if I would like it,
584
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.280
but I mean, first five minutes I was,
585
00:24:00.280 --> 00:24:02.120
me and my wife, we were locked in.
586
00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:03.160
Like, it was good.
587
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.680
So, yeah, and I think that, I think that's my favorite part
588
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.640
about it is that it came out of nowhere.
589
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:11.400
Like, it didn't have a big market in push.
590
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:12.760
It didn't have a big hype.
591
00:24:12.760 --> 00:24:13.960
It showed up on Netflix.
592
00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:16.920
You're like, this is the worst name ever.
593
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:18.040
What is this?
594
00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:20.440
Then you click it and it was a quality film.
595
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:22.360
And I think that's why it,
596
00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:23.800
like no one told you was good.
597
00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:25.240
You have to figure it out on your own.
598
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:28.520
I think that was like the reason why I got so popular.
599
00:24:28.520 --> 00:24:30.440
Nice, like a band that you found.
600
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:31.160
Yeah.
601
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:34.120
Yeah, I'd be like naming a movie, this movie sucks.
602
00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:35.880
And like, people would be like, well, does it?
603
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:36.840
I got to see now.
604
00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:41.160
Like, yeah, exactly worst movie ever.
605
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:47.000
I would ask if I see nothing about it and I seen that title,
606
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.160
I would have to click and check it out.
607
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:50.680
Yeah, for sure.
608
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:53.560
I heard the person that wrote a lot of the songs
609
00:24:53.560 --> 00:24:57.320
and that sang and it got kicked out of this music school
610
00:24:57.320 --> 00:24:57.880
that they were in.
611
00:24:57.880 --> 00:24:59.720
So, it's like, apparently there's like really competitive
612
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:01.320
K-pop music schools.
613
00:25:01.320 --> 00:25:04.840
And this person got kicked out for whatever reason
614
00:25:04.840 --> 00:25:08.200
for not performing well or not doing well.
615
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:11.960
Apparently, sent them into this state of payback
616
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:15.000
or whatever, they just wrote all these songs
617
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.680
and performed them and kicked a bunch of ass
618
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.360
and all of a sudden now they're just probably like,
619
00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:20.600
in your face, they're just going around.
620
00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:21.480
Yeah.
621
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.800
You kicked me out and now I have a trophy,
622
00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:24.680
you know what I'm saying?
623
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.480
You were wrong, and you were wrong.
624
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:28.360
And you were wrong.
625
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.280
Yes, spiked it, spiked driven song development.
626
00:25:34.360 --> 00:25:35.240
I like it.
627
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:35.720
Yeah, yeah.
628
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:36.200
It kind of works.
629
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:37.960
I got told that I wasn't going to go to Stanford
630
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:39.000
in high school and I was like,
631
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:41.000
screw you, man, I'm totally going to go.
632
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:41.880
And I didn't go.
633
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.120
But whatever, I tried for like a year
634
00:25:44.120 --> 00:25:45.640
just to piss that guy off.
635
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:46.360
He was right, though.
636
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:49.880
Yeah, that is how it goes.
637
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:51.640
Just try to do what people say you can't do.
638
00:25:52.520 --> 00:25:53.720
Robbie, why did you write?
639
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.160
Moana looks like use effect.
640
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.480
I found sit on Will's Twitter.
641
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:00.520
I don't remember.
642
00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:02.760
It was something like this Moana live
643
00:26:02.760 --> 00:26:05.320
actually would be looks like use effects or something.
644
00:26:05.320 --> 00:26:06.200
Tell me more.
645
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:07.240
That's amazing.
646
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:09.320
Okay.
647
00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:11.880
Oh, man, that's funny.
648
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:15.720
So the lower behind that,
649
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:17.080
so I don't know as y'all know,
650
00:26:17.080 --> 00:26:19.320
like on the, it's mainly a sports thing.
651
00:26:19.320 --> 00:26:21.160
It's mainly a sports Twitter thing.
652
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.600
So, you know, if a player is bad,
653
00:26:22.600 --> 00:26:24.520
they'll say that they're ass, right?
654
00:26:24.520 --> 00:26:27.080
They like, oh, whatever, whatever is ass or whatever.
655
00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:30.520
So now when something is bad or ass,
656
00:26:30.520 --> 00:26:32.600
they'll say like a song, they'll be like,
657
00:26:32.600 --> 00:26:34.360
oh, man, this song is Dak Prescott.
658
00:26:34.360 --> 00:26:36.680
Like, so that's kind of like how they do it.
659
00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:41.960
So I seen that in the Moana live action looks bad
660
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.000
and everybody's been talking so much trash on use effect.
661
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:46.120
So that's what I'm saying.
662
00:26:46.120 --> 00:26:47.800
Like use effect is ass on like that.
663
00:26:47.800 --> 00:26:49.000
This looks to use effects.
664
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.240
So I know nobody would knew what it meant,
665
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:52.760
but I just wanted to say it anyway.
666
00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:55.080
So that's that what that came from.
667
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.880
That's a great use of Twitter is to say something that's like,
668
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:01.480
I don't think anyone else is going to know.
669
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:02.200
And you know what?
670
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:03.000
I don't give a shit.
671
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.200
I'm going to say it anyway.
672
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.440
It's just like vague proclamations.
673
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.040
You're like, I know context.
674
00:27:08.040 --> 00:27:10.440
Here's a few words figured out.
675
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:11.320
I love it, dude.
676
00:27:11.320 --> 00:27:12.920
Yeah, now that I know the explanation,
677
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:14.040
I really like that.
678
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:16.200
But it might not understand.
679
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:18.760
It's like when I came back from Japan
680
00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:21.240
and I was like eating fruits and vegetables
681
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.040
as they come out of the earth is like using the web platform.
682
00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:27.800
Eating a meal that had got ground up
683
00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:29.720
and bashed up and powdered up
684
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:31.800
and then reformed into a poof.
685
00:27:31.800 --> 00:27:34.200
And then he put a bunch of preserves
686
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.480
and a bunch of more stuff
687
00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:37.160
that you had to shove more stuff into it.
688
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:38.280
And then you have this basically
689
00:27:38.280 --> 00:27:40.360
mishmash thing that you eat.
690
00:27:41.080 --> 00:27:42.280
That's react.
691
00:27:42.280 --> 00:27:44.280
And it's like Americans eat like react
692
00:27:44.280 --> 00:27:45.000
in Japan.
693
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.600
They eat like the web platform.
694
00:27:47.800 --> 00:27:49.400
Your statement there reminds me a lot of that.
695
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.280
We're like, I'm going to extrapolate this weird thing
696
00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:54.680
into this completely other unrelated weird thing
697
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:56.440
because my brain is weird.
698
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:57.400
And I'm going to share it.
699
00:27:57.480 --> 00:27:58.360
It's awesome.
700
00:27:58.360 --> 00:28:02.440
Speaking of mashed up preservatives,
701
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.760
I saw your tweet about sugar-free Oreo.
702
00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:09.160
Or your retweet of their ingredients or whatever.
703
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:09.560
Yeah.
704
00:28:09.560 --> 00:28:10.920
How do you feel about that?
705
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.360
Just give me the sugar, man.
706
00:28:12.360 --> 00:28:13.320
What did I got to see?
707
00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:14.280
What did I respawn?
708
00:28:16.840 --> 00:28:18.760
Because I know I said some emojis.
709
00:28:18.760 --> 00:28:21.000
Okay, yeah, because it's like
710
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.440
we're removing the sugar.
711
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:24.440
Like first of all,
712
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:25.480
I don't have the tweet up
713
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:26.920
because my computer's going to really slow.
714
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:28.760
I'm not going to look on my phone.
715
00:28:28.760 --> 00:28:30.920
But two of the ingredients
716
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.880
end in like a sugar word like Dextrose
717
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:35.160
and whatever, whatever.
718
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.400
So like bro, it's still sugar.
719
00:28:38.040 --> 00:28:41.000
Yeah, it was like sucralose, polydextrose,
720
00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:42.600
that's still sugar.
721
00:28:42.600 --> 00:28:43.720
Like it's not table sugar,
722
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:45.080
but it's still sugar.
723
00:28:45.080 --> 00:28:47.480
And then just give me the sugar.
724
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:50.280
Like, malice, a doll,
725
00:28:50.280 --> 00:28:51.720
polydextrose, sucralose,
726
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:54.040
an ace-k, have her play sugar.
727
00:28:54.040 --> 00:28:55.320
Bro just give me the sugar, man.
728
00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.880
Like we're like,
729
00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:59.560
okay,
730
00:28:59.560 --> 00:29:00.920
because you're saying Oreos
731
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:01.800
are a reactive component.
732
00:29:01.800 --> 00:29:02.840
That's what I'm hearing right now,
733
00:29:02.840 --> 00:29:04.360
because it's not really food.
734
00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:05.960
It's just all the weird stuff
735
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:07.000
and turned into something
736
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:08.360
that I'm going to give you to eat.
737
00:29:08.360 --> 00:29:11.160
But I love the way it is.
738
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:11.720
Exactly.
739
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:13.880
Give me back a component did mount.
740
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:14.760
I don't need hooks.
741
00:29:18.520 --> 00:29:19.560
I mean, I remember,
742
00:29:20.280 --> 00:29:21.880
I said something similar to that.
743
00:29:22.600 --> 00:29:24.280
No, it was like a,
744
00:29:24.280 --> 00:29:25.400
I was talking about,
745
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:26.760
it was like on a Twitter space
746
00:29:26.760 --> 00:29:28.120
and I was like,
747
00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:28.600
dude, I was like,
748
00:29:28.600 --> 00:29:30.120
just give me jQuery back
749
00:29:30.120 --> 00:29:32.440
and like the whole chat went silent.
750
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:34.680
But I mean,
751
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:36.120
you just lost so much followers.
752
00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:39.320
It was more like straight forward to use.
753
00:29:39.320 --> 00:29:40.200
It sure was.
754
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:41.480
Yeah.
755
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:43.560
My own model skin called bling bling.
756
00:29:43.560 --> 00:29:44.280
I'll go ahead, Robbie.
757
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:47.160
Nice.
758
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.560
Yeah, I used to use Ken Wheeler's cash.
759
00:29:49.560 --> 00:29:51.160
I thought that was pretty good.
760
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:52.520
Okay, that's why I had bling bling.
761
00:29:52.520 --> 00:29:53.960
So there was cash.
762
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.480
There was bling JS.
763
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.000
And then I had bling bling JS
764
00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:58.440
because I went all ES6
765
00:29:58.440 --> 00:29:59.400
and I had this really tight.
766
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:01.240
It was like nine lines of JavaScript
767
00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:04.200
that recreated like the core parts of jQuery.
768
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:05.480
I thought it was so cool.
769
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:06.920
And it was fine.
770
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:07.480
Yeah.
771
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:09.080
Yeah.
772
00:30:09.080 --> 00:30:10.440
You should resurrect it, man.
773
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.120
It can be the, uh,
774
00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:13.720
the next K-pop demon hunters
775
00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:15.720
in the web that were still alive.
776
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.800
Yeah, there you go.
777
00:30:17.800 --> 00:30:18.920
Yeah, I mean, I feel like
778
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:20.360
we went too far
779
00:30:20.360 --> 00:30:22.760
in like the way front end works now.
780
00:30:22.760 --> 00:30:24.200
Sometimes there's a use case
781
00:30:24.280 --> 00:30:25.960
for really intense frameworks.
782
00:30:26.520 --> 00:30:28.520
But like the astro model of
783
00:30:28.520 --> 00:30:31.640
it's all vanilla JavaScript CSS HTML.
784
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:33.720
And then when you need complex stuff,
785
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.600
you have maybe one,
786
00:30:34.600 --> 00:30:35.960
one little component
787
00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:37.240
that has like some of that in it.
788
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:38.760
But now we're just like,
789
00:30:38.760 --> 00:30:39.800
oh, yeah, I got to like
790
00:30:40.840 --> 00:30:42.520
have a router or a route.
791
00:30:42.520 --> 00:30:43.400
And it's like,
792
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:45.160
oh, that's definitely a component.
793
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:46.920
Like actually, it's not a component
794
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:48.120
because it's, uh,
795
00:30:48.120 --> 00:30:49.000
it's a router.
796
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.200
So it's like,
797
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:51.480
I don't know,
798
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:53.640
trying to fit everything into components
799
00:30:53.800 --> 00:30:54.600
and being like,
800
00:30:54.600 --> 00:30:55.800
it all has to be like,
801
00:30:55.800 --> 00:30:57.320
oh, it can also render on the server
802
00:30:57.320 --> 00:30:58.440
or the client or both.
803
00:30:58.440 --> 00:30:59.800
Or who knows where you are.
804
00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:01.080
It's like, yeah, maybe we,
805
00:31:01.080 --> 00:31:03.560
like, maybe we went too far.
806
00:31:03.560 --> 00:31:06.040
Yeah, it's like, you know, you want to,
807
00:31:06.040 --> 00:31:07.000
you know, you want to cover.
808
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:07.880
I think that really comes
809
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:08.760
from just like covering
810
00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:11.480
as many use cases as possible
811
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:11.960
because, you know,
812
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:12.840
it's going to be a watering
813
00:31:12.840 --> 00:31:14.680
to people using the product.
814
00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:15.320
So like it,
815
00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:16.600
you know, are the framework
816
00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:17.000
or whatever.
817
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:17.880
So like it makes sense.
818
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:19.560
But then people see that
819
00:31:19.560 --> 00:31:20.760
and think that that's how
820
00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:21.480
they should, you know,
821
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:23.160
do it from the jump,
822
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:23.880
you know what I mean?
823
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:25.800
And then it continues to you,
824
00:31:25.800 --> 00:31:27.240
you know, over engineered
825
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:28.120
and over engineered.
826
00:31:28.120 --> 00:31:29.320
And you're adding this
827
00:31:29.320 --> 00:31:30.200
and you're adding that when
828
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:32.440
you didn't really need all of that.
829
00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.120
What's the best engineered thing
830
00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:35.480
you've ever seen or used
831
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:36.040
where you were like,
832
00:31:36.040 --> 00:31:37.800
this is just the right amount.
833
00:31:37.800 --> 00:31:38.680
Oh, man.
834
00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:40.280
You know,
835
00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:40.840
bath zero.
836
00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:42.200
Well, what a great answer.
837
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:43.400
I can't believe you said that.
838
00:31:46.520 --> 00:31:47.240
For me, though,
839
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:48.840
it was, it was rails, man.
840
00:31:48.840 --> 00:31:50.680
I remember when I used rails,
841
00:31:51.320 --> 00:31:52.120
I like legit,
842
00:31:52.120 --> 00:31:52.680
and I was like, dude,
843
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:54.280
I can start a business with this.
844
00:31:54.280 --> 00:31:55.960
Like it was so cool.
845
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.800
It was like so easy to understand.
846
00:31:57.800 --> 00:31:59.160
And Laura was kind of the same.
847
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:00.360
Like I haven't used it a lot,
848
00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:01.640
but I've dabbled in Laura
849
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:03.800
when it kind of has like the same experience.
850
00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:05.560
But rails I thought was,
851
00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:07.080
I use that when I work that egghead.
852
00:32:07.080 --> 00:32:08.600
And I thought that was like
853
00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:09.480
for me personally,
854
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:11.480
a great developer experience.
855
00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:11.720
I could
856
00:32:12.600 --> 00:32:13.880
grok anything about it
857
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:14.600
that I need to
858
00:32:14.600 --> 00:32:16.920
in a fairly short amount of time.
859
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.840
And I could look at other people's
860
00:32:18.840 --> 00:32:20.040
code bases
861
00:32:20.040 --> 00:32:21.160
and kind of know what to do
862
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:21.960
and where to go.
863
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:22.920
So I really,
864
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.560
I really enjoyed the rails experience.
865
00:32:25.560 --> 00:32:26.760
Do you have to manage any of the
866
00:32:26.760 --> 00:32:28.120
integrations for Osiril?
867
00:32:28.120 --> 00:32:29.160
Like sometimes DevRel
868
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.000
have to do either bug fixes
869
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:32.520
or patches or releases
870
00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:33.480
or something like that?
871
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:35.560
Or are you involved very much in the
872
00:32:35.560 --> 00:32:37.240
interfaces that go into these frameworks?
873
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:37.800
Or are you?
874
00:32:37.800 --> 00:32:39.640
No, not on our team.
875
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:41.480
So like we're separated
876
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:43.720
into like different ways of DevRel
877
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:45.160
because you know we're a big enough work.
878
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.160
So like I'm specifically
879
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:48.440
content, you know,
880
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:50.200
videos, podcasts,
881
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:51.240
blogs, stuff like that.
882
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:52.440
We have a team that's
883
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.040
community focus where
884
00:32:54.040 --> 00:32:55.160
they go out and do events
885
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:56.200
and they throw events
886
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:57.480
and stuff like that.
887
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:58.680
And then we have like another
888
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.120
that does like that stuff
889
00:33:00.120 --> 00:33:02.120
like works on the SDKs.
890
00:33:02.120 --> 00:33:03.320
And sometimes we'll help out
891
00:33:03.320 --> 00:33:04.200
and help out with
892
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:05.160
Dyson stuff like that.
893
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:07.400
But yeah, in my particular role,
894
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.640
yeah, I don't work on the SDKs or anything.
895
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:10.680
The main thing I do is like
896
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:12.280
give the feedback back when I'm out
897
00:33:12.280 --> 00:33:12.840
when I'm
898
00:33:12.840 --> 00:33:13.880
because people are, you know,
899
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:15.320
in my inbox,
900
00:33:15.320 --> 00:33:15.960
you know, like,
901
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:17.480
hey, this isn't working or
902
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:18.280
and honestly it's been
903
00:33:18.280 --> 00:33:19.400
some pretty cool stuff coming
904
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:20.200
in my inbox.
905
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:21.640
Like things not working
906
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:23.240
that we didn't even like know about.
907
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.080
So it's been kind of cool to be out there
908
00:33:25.080 --> 00:33:26.440
like that and, you know,
909
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:28.520
be able to hear from the community
910
00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:29.720
and fix things because, you know,
911
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:30.680
they're hacking on stuff
912
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:32.520
and trying stuff.
913
00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:33.960
And so I get the, you know,
914
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:35.080
see like what are people
915
00:33:35.080 --> 00:33:36.360
doing? How are they
916
00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:37.640
making this work?
917
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:38.440
And it'd be like, well,
918
00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:40.280
it shouldn't work like that.
919
00:33:40.280 --> 00:33:41.320
Let me see.
920
00:33:41.320 --> 00:33:43.560
Why are you having to make this hacker?
921
00:33:43.560 --> 00:33:44.600
You know, why are you running
922
00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:46.120
into this because it shouldn't work that way?
923
00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:47.160
So that's been kind of cool.
924
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:48.600
We fixed a lot of things
925
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:50.920
just from people being in my DMs.
926
00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:52.520
Either complaining or just showing me
927
00:33:52.520 --> 00:33:53.800
stuff and they didn't even know
928
00:33:53.800 --> 00:33:54.600
that it was a hack.
929
00:33:54.600 --> 00:33:55.880
They were just doing it.
930
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:57.480
And I'm like, oh,
931
00:33:57.480 --> 00:33:58.280
that shouldn't happen.
932
00:33:58.280 --> 00:33:59.560
Let's get that fixed.
933
00:33:59.560 --> 00:34:00.520
Yeah, you don't want hacks
934
00:34:00.520 --> 00:34:01.560
in your authentication.
935
00:34:01.560 --> 00:34:02.680
If you want them anywhere,
936
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:03.880
that's not the place.
937
00:34:06.360 --> 00:34:07.960
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
938
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:09.880
So I'm glad that I get to be
939
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:11.960
available out there like that.
940
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:13.640
So people can feel like,
941
00:34:13.640 --> 00:34:14.520
you know, they got someone
942
00:34:14.520 --> 00:34:17.080
they can talk to when they're having
943
00:34:17.160 --> 00:34:17.960
any issues.
944
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:19.560
So that's like one thing I do
945
00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:20.680
enjoy about the day of real
946
00:34:20.680 --> 00:34:21.320
role.
947
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:22.440
You've been there long enough.
948
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:23.800
What's your like really tight
949
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:25.160
pitch that you have when you're like,
950
00:34:25.160 --> 00:34:26.040
oh, yeah, I can pitch
951
00:34:26.040 --> 00:34:27.800
austeroan one or two sentences
952
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.920
and make it sound good.
953
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.080
Make it make it about 60 seconds
954
00:34:31.080 --> 00:34:32.520
and then tell us where to send the
955
00:34:32.520 --> 00:34:33.240
invoice to.
956
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:39.640
I mean, I can tell you where to
957
00:34:39.640 --> 00:34:40.600
send the invoice to.
958
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.760
Yeah, all zero is the
959
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.520
authentication and authorization
960
00:34:46.520 --> 00:34:49.400
platform for developers anything
961
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:50.360
that you need to do without
962
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.040
the indication and authorization,
963
00:34:52.040 --> 00:34:53.560
whether that's connecting
964
00:34:53.560 --> 00:34:56.200
social login, securing AI agents,
965
00:34:56.200 --> 00:34:57.960
we handle it with our SDK.
966
00:34:57.960 --> 00:34:59.240
So you don't have to.
967
00:34:59.240 --> 00:35:00.600
So you can get back to doing
968
00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:01.240
the fun stuff.
969
00:35:01.240 --> 00:35:03.320
You like like programmatically
970
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:04.680
hiding stuff with CSS.
971
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:08.520
Well done on the fly
972
00:35:08.520 --> 00:35:10.280
integration with my preferences.
973
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:10.680
Nice.
974
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:14.680
That's good stuff.
975
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:15.960
I really like past keys.
976
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:17.240
The past keys work.
977
00:35:17.240 --> 00:35:18.440
Yeah, past keys work.
978
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:19.800
And our integration
979
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:21.800
was pretty simple.
980
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.440
Like it's just a just a click of a
981
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:26.520
button in the in the dashboard
982
00:35:26.520 --> 00:35:28.600
and you got past keys.
983
00:35:28.600 --> 00:35:29.880
There's like someone on Twitter
984
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:31.400
who has like a brigade against
985
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:32.440
past keys.
986
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:33.960
So it's like anytime we post
987
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:35.000
something on past keys,
988
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:36.120
they're like right there talking
989
00:35:36.120 --> 00:35:37.400
about how bad it is.
990
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:39.640
It's been like and the consistency
991
00:35:39.640 --> 00:35:40.600
is insane.
992
00:35:40.600 --> 00:35:41.800
Like I would like to be
993
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:43.720
dedicated to a mission like
994
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:47.240
like as intentionally as that.
995
00:35:47.240 --> 00:35:49.960
I don't understand how past keys work
996
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.440
really because it's supposed to be
997
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.560
more secure, but like it's way
998
00:35:55.560 --> 00:35:56.280
easier.
999
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.680
I can just like save it in my one
1000
00:35:58.680 --> 00:36:00.440
password and log in with that
1001
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:01.880
past key on like any device,
1002
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:02.920
which I think kind of breaks
1003
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:03.960
the way it was supposed to work.
1004
00:36:04.600 --> 00:36:06.280
But one password can emulate a
1005
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:07.080
past key.
1006
00:36:07.080 --> 00:36:08.760
Yes, yeah, you can save it there
1007
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:09.880
and use it on every device,
1008
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:11.480
which is dope.
1009
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.240
So like it seems like
1010
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:15.640
it'd be counter like it'd be
1011
00:36:15.640 --> 00:36:17.160
against the ethos of how it was
1012
00:36:17.160 --> 00:36:17.800
supposed to work.
1013
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:18.760
I'd like to just have another
1014
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:20.360
device and it's supposed to like
1015
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:22.200
use biometrics or some kind.
1016
00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:23.320
Yeah, yeah, but it's like,
1017
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:24.600
nope, you can biometric
1018
00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:27.480
into one password and that counts,
1019
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:28.440
I guess, and then you just say,
1020
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:29.880
oh, it just works.
1021
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:30.600
That makes sense.
1022
00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:31.880
So you still have to bio
1023
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.440
into one password in order to get
1024
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:34.600
there.
1025
00:36:34.600 --> 00:36:36.040
Okay, so there's still a bio check.
1026
00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:37.560
There's still like something
1027
00:36:37.560 --> 00:36:39.160
kind of still
1028
00:36:39.160 --> 00:36:40.520
fingerprinting you in a way that's
1029
00:36:40.520 --> 00:36:42.120
like pretty physical.
1030
00:36:42.120 --> 00:36:43.720
Okay, yeah, but like it's a little
1031
00:36:43.720 --> 00:36:44.680
less concerning.
1032
00:36:44.680 --> 00:36:46.440
Yeah, you know, it's a public
1033
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:47.960
and private key pair.
1034
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:50.280
So like the private key is stored
1035
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:51.880
on the device or I guess in one
1036
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:52.760
password, I'm going to be honest,
1037
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:54.680
I'm not familiar with how
1038
00:36:54.680 --> 00:36:55.720
one password does it.
1039
00:36:55.720 --> 00:36:57.720
But if they store it there,
1040
00:36:57.720 --> 00:36:59.400
then like no one should have
1041
00:36:59.400 --> 00:36:59.960
access to that.
1042
00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:00.840
Just like if it's stored
1043
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:01.800
on the device,
1044
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.240
no one would have access
1045
00:37:03.240 --> 00:37:04.600
to that like, you know, from the
1046
00:37:04.600 --> 00:37:05.240
way.
1047
00:37:05.240 --> 00:37:07.400
And so they check against each other
1048
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:08.280
and then if it matches
1049
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.880
and then that's why it gets you
1050
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:10.120
in.
1051
00:37:10.120 --> 00:37:12.120
And so as long as no one has the
1052
00:37:12.120 --> 00:37:13.800
private key, that's stored like
1053
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:14.760
on device,
1054
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.200
then you shouldn't have any issues.
1055
00:37:16.200 --> 00:37:17.880
But I get why it seems like
1056
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:18.840
because it's not just the
1057
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:19.240
pass key.
1058
00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:20.760
If it was just the pass key
1059
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.440
by itself, just out floating
1060
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:23.400
on the internet,
1061
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:24.600
I understand whether I'd be
1062
00:37:24.600 --> 00:37:25.080
concerning.
1063
00:37:25.080 --> 00:37:26.520
But it has to have that
1064
00:37:26.520 --> 00:37:28.200
match in order for it to
1065
00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:28.680
let you.
1066
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:31.400
Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
1067
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:32.440
It just feels too easy.
1068
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.200
When stuff is easy to log into,
1069
00:37:34.200 --> 00:37:35.960
I'm like, that don't feel right.
1070
00:37:37.160 --> 00:37:38.520
Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying.
1071
00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:39.400
I get what you're saying.
1072
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.000
Yeah, I think even me, like,
1073
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:44.680
before I start working at off zero
1074
00:37:44.680 --> 00:37:46.360
and I didn't know how it worked,
1075
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:47.560
I was kind of like the same way.
1076
00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:48.840
I was like, oh, I'm never using
1077
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:50.120
my Face ID or
1078
00:37:50.120 --> 00:37:50.840
fingerprint.
1079
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:52.280
But now, like,
1080
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.040
I like use it for every,
1081
00:37:54.040 --> 00:37:55.320
like, now that I know how it
1082
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:56.760
works and what it does,
1083
00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:58.200
then, like, I don't, you know,
1084
00:37:58.200 --> 00:37:59.880
I have no issues.
1085
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.400
Yeah, office is so weird.
1086
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:03.480
It's still mostly unsolved.
1087
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.160
We have more services and more
1088
00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:05.720
options.
1089
00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:07.000
But we're not necessarily
1090
00:38:07.080 --> 00:38:08.440
in a scenario where
1091
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:09.560
it's impenetrable.
1092
00:38:09.560 --> 00:38:10.680
People can still lose stuff.
1093
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:13.160
They still ask people to store backups
1094
00:38:13.160 --> 00:38:14.360
and on their computer and like,
1095
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:15.880
it's like a basically a sticky note
1096
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:17.160
you stick in your hard drive.
1097
00:38:17.160 --> 00:38:19.080
Yeah, that's more secure here.
1098
00:38:19.080 --> 00:38:20.600
Keep the sticky note in your hard drive.
1099
00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:21.560
I'm like, okay,
1100
00:38:21.560 --> 00:38:23.240
that's totally not recognizable
1101
00:38:23.240 --> 00:38:26.360
by CLI if it wanted to crawl through.
1102
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:28.040
But funny, I mean, it's kind of nice, though,
1103
00:38:28.040 --> 00:38:28.920
that they're all out there.
1104
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:30.600
You do trust a SaaS service
1105
00:38:30.600 --> 00:38:32.200
for your authentication because
1106
00:38:33.160 --> 00:38:34.600
there's just too many considerations.
1107
00:38:34.600 --> 00:38:35.800
It's kind of like your CSS.
1108
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:37.240
You just trust specialists
1109
00:38:37.240 --> 00:38:39.000
is kind of the deal at the end of the day, right?
1110
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.920
There's too much niche information
1111
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.400
these days.
1112
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.800
Computers feel simple only because
1113
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.920
specialists have made all of those things
1114
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:47.560
feel that way.
1115
00:38:47.560 --> 00:38:50.280
We're in a very pampered scenario a lot of times.
1116
00:38:51.080 --> 00:38:52.440
Auth is one of those scenarios.
1117
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:54.040
Auth is just pampering devs.
1118
00:38:54.040 --> 00:38:54.520
There you go.
1119
00:38:54.520 --> 00:38:55.720
It's Pampers for devs.
1120
00:38:55.720 --> 00:38:56.440
Auth Pampers.
1121
00:38:58.440 --> 00:38:59.480
Yeah, exactly.
1122
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.160
Soft, cloudy Pampers.
1123
00:39:02.520 --> 00:39:03.880
Dipers for your login.
1124
00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:08.760
And that's kind of like the fun about it too.
1125
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.120
Like, I've been here for four years
1126
00:39:12.120 --> 00:39:13.800
and seen so many different
1127
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:15.160
iterations of like,
1128
00:39:15.160 --> 00:39:17.160
past keys was like a big thing.
1129
00:39:17.160 --> 00:39:19.480
And then when there was a whole web
1130
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.560
three thing going on in like using web
1131
00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:24.280
while it's to log in from all people,
1132
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.000
that was going to be like the way people
1133
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:28.920
log in that was like a big thing.
1134
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:30.360
I know people say auth
1135
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.520
and it usually means like authentication
1136
00:39:32.520 --> 00:39:33.560
like by itself.
1137
00:39:33.560 --> 00:39:35.320
But then there's like the authorization
1138
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.160
part, you know, of like permissions
1139
00:39:37.160 --> 00:39:38.920
and what they're like allowed to do.
1140
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:41.000
And that's like, you know, ever evolving.
1141
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:42.760
So it's kind of been, you know,
1142
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.600
interesting to see like that change,
1143
00:39:44.600 --> 00:39:48.280
like going from like role-based authentication
1144
00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:50.760
then relationship based authentication
1145
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.520
or authorization my back.
1146
00:39:52.520 --> 00:39:54.120
Even I get them confused some time.
1147
00:39:54.120 --> 00:39:56.200
But yeah, like going from that
1148
00:39:56.200 --> 00:39:58.520
and then like there's things like FGA
1149
00:39:58.520 --> 00:40:00.760
like we have obviously zero FGA
1150
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:03.640
that's based off of like the Google Zanzibore.
1151
00:40:03.720 --> 00:40:06.600
So that's like fine-grained authorization
1152
00:40:06.600 --> 00:40:08.440
when you think of like Google Drive
1153
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:11.000
and does the team have access?
1154
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:14.360
If Will is Adam's manager does Adam get access
1155
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:17.000
to this document instead of giving like everybody
1156
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:18.600
their own things and stuff like that.
1157
00:40:18.600 --> 00:40:21.400
So that's also been like interesting to see
1158
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:23.880
that like you said it hasn't been solved yet
1159
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.680
because there's just there's so many things to consider.
1160
00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:28.760
There's more and more users every day.
1161
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:31.000
There's more and more people attacking every day.
1162
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:33.640
So it's been like an exciting space to be in
1163
00:40:33.640 --> 00:40:36.360
just to kind of watch all this evolution.
1164
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.520
And still like not know like what's going to be the winner, right?
1165
00:40:40.520 --> 00:40:42.360
Like even, you know, I still don't know
1166
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.560
who's going like another these things.
1167
00:40:43.560 --> 00:40:45.640
I don't know what's going to be the off winner
1168
00:40:45.640 --> 00:40:46.920
because yet Pasky's is hot.
1169
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.480
But it might be something else that come out
1170
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:50.280
two years from now.
1171
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:51.480
So it's been fun.
1172
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:53.160
Yeah, always evolving.
1173
00:40:53.160 --> 00:40:54.920
Yep, you make authentication sound cool.
1174
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:57.640
But you're right, it's not, it's not done
1175
00:40:57.640 --> 00:40:59.880
and even permissions are still not solved.
1176
00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:01.080
Like that's one of the hardest things.
1177
00:41:01.080 --> 00:41:03.640
You go into AWS, you go into Google cloud services,
1178
00:41:03.640 --> 00:41:05.800
you go into Netlify, you go into your Google doc
1179
00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:07.320
and you're like, who has access to this?
1180
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.320
I was just showing my kids this the other day
1181
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:12.120
and they're making a Google doc to make their own Pokemon cards.
1182
00:41:12.120 --> 00:41:13.720
I'm like, hey, you do data entry,
1183
00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:16.520
you define the Pokemon name, the HP,
1184
00:41:16.520 --> 00:41:17.880
it's moves and all that stuff.
1185
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:18.760
I'll make you a card.
1186
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:21.000
And so then they go in there and like they got a couple cards
1187
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.280
ready and get a share.
1188
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:23.960
And it's just that stuff is so complex to them.
1189
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.320
They're just like, what is going on with permission models?
1190
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:29.400
Like, why do you need access to my thing?
1191
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:31.960
And I'm like, you should give me limited access too.
1192
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:32.760
So funny.
1193
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.160
Yeah, I think like the Google stuff is kind of like the best way
1194
00:41:35.160 --> 00:41:36.600
to teach someone like that
1195
00:41:36.600 --> 00:41:39.800
because it has so many different options
1196
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:43.640
and it kind of shows you just how granular it can be.
1197
00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:45.320
Yeah, what would you like to plug, Will?
1198
00:41:46.040 --> 00:41:47.000
What do you got going on?
1199
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.000
I'll zero, I guess, but like, you know,
1200
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:50.280
where can the people find you?
1201
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:52.120
Yeah, what do you want to mention before we end?
1202
00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:54.520
I mean, you can find me on Twitter
1203
00:41:54.520 --> 00:41:56.680
at Will Johnson IO.
1204
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.640
I'll join that thing, the name, weightless thing
1205
00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:01.640
because I want to get the IO taken off.
1206
00:42:01.640 --> 00:42:03.000
So it can just be Will Johnson.
1207
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:06.120
The other Will Johnson hasn't used Twitter in like eight years.
1208
00:42:06.120 --> 00:42:10.280
So wish me luck and get into but for Will Johnson.
1209
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:12.840
But for now, it's Will Johnson IO.
1210
00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:15.800
And someone I like to plug.
1211
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:18.840
I mean, you know, definitely the off zero AI stuff.
1212
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.040
So we just lost into like general availability,
1213
00:42:22.040 --> 00:42:24.520
the off zero for AI agents.
1214
00:42:24.520 --> 00:42:27.720
You can get that at off zero.com slash AI.
1215
00:42:27.720 --> 00:42:30.280
And it's basically authenticating your agents,
1216
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:34.200
giving them the proper permissions to access things,
1217
00:42:34.200 --> 00:42:36.920
storing like your tokens and API keys.
1218
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:40.760
So you're not giving them to the AI agents yourself,
1219
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:42.680
which I've seen people do.
1220
00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:44.200
So please don't do that.
1221
00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:46.040
Use token vault and, you know,
1222
00:42:46.040 --> 00:42:48.200
save those somewhere securely and, you know,
1223
00:42:48.200 --> 00:42:50.360
let the exchange happen without zero.
1224
00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:51.720
So you're not liable.
1225
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:54.760
And also we have like a notification system.
1226
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.880
So if you want their agent to like a sensitive action,
1227
00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:00.840
it can alert you whether email, phone call,
1228
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:03.400
the text notification, like whatever you choose
1229
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:05.640
for you can actually approve it before it takes that action.
1230
00:43:05.640 --> 00:43:07.400
So yeah, you can check out all that stuff.
1231
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.880
We got quick starts, doc sample apps,
1232
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:12.760
all of that off zero.com slash AI.
1233
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:14.440
Nice. I have one final question.
1234
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:17.320
Is AI users or are AI users?
1235
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:18.680
Are they users?
1236
00:43:18.680 --> 00:43:19.960
You gave them permissions.
1237
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.200
But how do you put that in the database?
1238
00:43:22.200 --> 00:43:24.040
Because they're not people.
1239
00:43:24.040 --> 00:43:25.960
They're just, I guess they're not count.
1240
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:27.240
I don't know. Seems weird.
1241
00:43:27.240 --> 00:43:30.360
But now we have AI logging in and doing all these things.
1242
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:31.800
They're called agents.
1243
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:33.560
They're saying, yeah, you can't see them.
1244
00:43:33.560 --> 00:43:36.600
You know, they can never ask for stuff.
1245
00:43:36.600 --> 00:43:39.080
Like are they a primary about like in your analytics?
1246
00:43:39.080 --> 00:43:41.880
Are there more agents signing up every day
1247
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:42.520
than people?
1248
00:43:42.520 --> 00:43:44.040
Is that like a thing that even happens?
1249
00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:47.080
I don't think it was this more agent signing up than people,
1250
00:43:47.160 --> 00:43:51.240
but I feel like a lot of people are using agents
1251
00:43:51.240 --> 00:43:53.720
and kind of letting them do stuff.
1252
00:43:53.720 --> 00:43:56.520
So that's kind of why we came up with the off zero
1253
00:43:56.520 --> 00:43:59.000
for AI agents just to kind of reign it in.
1254
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.160
It'll get assigned, you know, an identity
1255
00:44:01.160 --> 00:44:02.200
and everything like that.
1256
00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:05.320
So that's how like gets kept track of
1257
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:07.240
and you know how their permissions get,
1258
00:44:07.240 --> 00:44:08.680
you know, the guard rails get put on
1259
00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.960
and everything like that.
1260
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:10.600
Makes sense.
1261
00:44:10.600 --> 00:44:11.960
Yeah, that sounds smart.
1262
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:14.280
I'm sure a lot of people were just giving it like a,
1263
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:16.920
they made their own account and gave it their credentials.
1264
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:20.120
And like, oopsie, it broke some stuff.
1265
00:44:20.120 --> 00:44:22.520
So yeah, that sounds better.
1266
00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:25.400
Yeah, that's pretty much what was happening.
1267
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:27.640
I mean, I even seen like conversations on Reddit
1268
00:44:27.640 --> 00:44:30.840
and someone was like, are you guys just giving your API keys
1269
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:31.960
to the agent?
1270
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:34.200
And it was like hundreds of replies
1271
00:44:34.200 --> 00:44:36.760
and most of them were like, yeah, I'm like, oh.
1272
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:43.000
Yeah, yeah, those are some trusting people.
1273
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.680
That's not not a great idea.
1274
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:49.240
Yolo mode plus API keys equals some other kind of mode
1275
00:44:49.240 --> 00:44:51.240
that is not just Yolo anymore.
1276
00:44:51.240 --> 00:44:54.680
Yeah, beyond Yolo upside down Yolo.
1277
00:44:54.680 --> 00:44:56.040
Nice, the stranger Yolo.
1278
00:44:58.760 --> 00:44:59.640
All right, cool.
1279
00:44:59.640 --> 00:45:01.720
Yeah, we're about at time here.
1280
00:45:01.720 --> 00:45:03.480
Yeah, thanks Will for coming on.
1281
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:04.600
Thanks everyone for listening.
1282
00:45:04.600 --> 00:45:05.960
If you liked it, please subscribe.
1283
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:07.080
Leave us some reviews.
1284
00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:09.240
We appreciate it and we will catch you next time.
1285
00:45:14.680 --> 00:45:16.760
What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck?