speaker-0: the lady who was ⁓ head of this agency, ⁓ wished death upon me. So lawyers had to get involved because I was being charged with corporate espionage.
speaker-1: Have you ever wondered what goes into the edit of an unscripted reality television show? Well, today we are sitting with Andrew Dixon. Andrew is head of post-production here at Afrikaans and is one of the foremost editors in the country when it comes to unscripted. He's worked on big productions like Survivor, Temptation Island and MasterChef. And Andrew is going to share his knowledge with us. My name is Leru Bwita and this is Unscripted. with Andrew Dixon. ⁓ So Andrew, thank you so much for joining and thanks for taking the time out of your, I know you're very busy at the moment ⁓ with a big production that is really very busy. mean, really busy. That is really taking some time now. Let's start there. How is your current project, which we can't name yet, but it is for a big streamer. Yes. How is that in terms of editing different from anything else that you've done before? Start off with the audio.
speaker-0: Wow. Yeah. It's, um, it's been very eye opening because, it's kind of like all the things we have learned in the past. I've been thrown out the window and it's like, there we go. Start from scratch and you kind of learning to edit again. So it's been very difficult, but it's someone's been rewarding and, uh, there's been many days where we've wanted to all quit and walk out and open a flower shop or something, which are. don't think we're much better or less stressful. But yeah, it's been eye-opening, but it's been very rewarding. It's just a different way of telling stories. And yeah, we have yet to still complete it and we'll see how turns out. Yeah. And it's going to turn out great because the lessons we are learning now is good going forward for ⁓ post-production as a whole. Yeah.
speaker-1: Let's go back. Where did you learn? Where did you learn how to edit? Tell me the backstory.
speaker-0: So when I grew up, I had a best friend who loved making home videos and he loved it. Like every time we're at his house, we're making, reenacting Jurassic parks and back to the futures. And we'd always make these home videos, but I never really had a love for, I enjoyed doing it, but I never had a love for movies or TV. And then we finished school. My friend became, went off and became a director and he started doing music videos. But I went to the UK cause I love DJing. So I was in the UK and I was working and DJing at a dorm-based nightclub. And it got a bit hairy there because there was lots of gangs involved. And one day I was at the club, cause I was a shift manager and then the bar, the club manager was there. And we're at the bar and this girl and this man came in and the girl asked for a drink and I asked her for her ID. cause I knew she was too young to drink and she pulled out this piece of paper. And she said, there's my idea and looked at it and it was her release, her prison release form. had just been released from prison. So I said to her, well, it doesn't give me your age here. So she was like, okay, fair enough. And she walked away and as she walked away, she picked up a chair and screwed at me and it smashed the whole bar apart. And her boyfriend started to try and attack me. So it was that day when I thought, you know what, I'm done with this club life and DJing.
speaker-1: over to it.
speaker-0: And then my friend said to me, like, Andrew, you do you like DJing? Maybe you'd like editing. It's the same kind of thing. Yeah. So like, okay. So then I came back to South Africa and he's like, just come to the office with me and hang out. So I went to his office. It was a production company in Johannesburg and I just hung out there for like, I was there for like six months. And then the one day the guy that owned the company, he says, he's like, what are you doing here? Yeah. So I said, were like, no, no, he's just learning how to edit. So he's like, Oh, okay. So then he's like, I'll pay you. He paid me a very small stipend every month and I started to learn how to edit. then from there, it just grew. And I started doing music videos and that, I started to learn all like after effects and DVD compilations at the time. And then from there, just grew and grew and grew. went into corporate videos. Um, and well, started in music videos, then went to corporate videos. And then one day I. ⁓ was, ⁓ I was asked to do a reality show and that was at curious pictures in Johannesburg. And that's how I met, ⁓ hungry, ⁓ Bassoon and Craig Blexley. And from there, it's kind of history. And I got onto my first big reality show, which was MasterChef. And that was where I found my love for reality television. Yeah. And I got to sit with the best and learn, which was like still today. cannot believe I got to sit with Craig and hungry. and Donald Clark and all of them and learn this trade, which, I never looked back. Yeah. Never touched a corporate or music video again.
speaker-1: That's incredible. So you're a storyteller at heart. mean, through and through. that's your passion. Where do you start when you get a survivor or you get a master chef or you get... ⁓ Where do you start?
speaker-0: That Craig always does when he starts at the beginning. Yeah. it's quite funny that cause obviously you get your, you get all your, ⁓ content notes and everything from the ⁓ content producers and everyone involved in putting the story together. But obviously they haven't seen everything. So like Craig always taught me is watch everything. So you kind of have the story and you watch from the beginning and you start to pull out those moments that tell the story and then color in with things that no one has seen of the story. So basically that's how it works. Not as easy, I'm making it sound very easy, but it's, it's, it's no luck. Those five stages of grief. You definitely go through the five stages of grief and editing where you think something's working and then it just falls apart. Yeah. And then, ⁓ the joy of finding that it's working again. Yeah.
speaker-1: In essence, the fact that you have to kind of watch everything is a lot. There's a lot that goes with that because I mean, I know for instance, on The Survivor, it's almost 24 hours of filming happening for 39 days. And there is a lot that ends up on the cutting floor.
speaker-0: I mean, most of it lands up on the cutting floor. And the thing is the things that we see, it's just incredible. think that's the problem. I think the problem is the things that land up on the cutting floor are really great moments that show a person's personality and character. But those things are thrown away because there's no time for that. So we miss a lot of things, a lot of really dodgy things as well that people don't see. ⁓ But it's, it really is, a lot of work and it is a labor of love. And I think that's why a lot of editors are perhaps intimidated by reality because it is so much work. And obviously we don't get the luxury of time. So to watch through everything and try and cut an ep, ⁓ it's, it's very short time. So it's, it's can be stressful, but it's like, there's nothing better than having an ep, ⁓ presented to the executives and that when you know, you've worked your
speaker-1: Bye-bye.
speaker-0: on it and it got the reaction that you wanted it to get.
speaker-1: In terms of that, there's a lot of work that goes into the story producers kind of coming up with a story. ⁓ how often does it happen that the story producers present a story to you as an ⁓ editor and what they present is just not there on camera.
speaker-0: a bit controversial. it happens, it happens a lot. It does happen a lot. And sometimes we are forced to make that story work. And that means stealing from everywhere to try and make the story work. But there has been a lot of times where someone has sold a story, which decision makers have found the story to be groundbreaking. And it is, and then when you see it, you're like, we cannot base our episode around this because it actually is very weak. Yeah. And then you just have to come up with a plan to, I mean, you know, Louie, the things we've done to make a story work. I mean, we still tell him the truth, but it's just...
speaker-1: Yeah, from a slightly different anchor. There's a term in the editing world called Frankenbite.
speaker-0: ⁓ Frankenbiting, yes. use that? Frankenbiting is most probably one of the biggest tools we have. ⁓ I suppose some people would think it's controversial as well, cause you putting words into people's mouth, but basically, basically it's taking an interview and cutting it up to make the person say what you want them to say. But obviously you have to be very careful because you don't want them to say things that they wouldn't have said, or it's something you're trying to make controversy. You have to still keep it in line with what the story is. And the contestants participants truth. Yeah. And that is also very tricky because the problem is you take it from when you Frankenbite an interview, you take it from many different interviews, which have to be covered and made to look seamless. So, and it's a handy tool and a lot of people are against it because you are putting words in someone's mouth. But I think the words we are putting in their mouths are still the truth. Yeah. It's just our truth. Yeah.
speaker-1: To aid our story, I mean...
speaker-0: Bagel story, yes. Yeah. It's still their story though, but it's just, unfortunately we, they didn't say it in a more accurate or not accurate, a more direct way. So we make them say it in a direct way. So I always joke. I always say like, do you think some of the contestants always sit back and they're watching like, I never said that. Yeah. Or I never knew I sounded so profound. For me, no, it was, I making them sound profound.
speaker-1: And that's where your magic lies in, is the fact that you can take something that doesn't quite make sense and is possibly very long-winded and cut it down to a bite-sized sound bite that sounds like this person has the knowledge of play-to.
speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ exactly. Yeah. Unfortunately, some people are just really bad at interviewing that you making them say what they want to say, but better. So, ⁓ it's just the reality. It's just the reality of it. Yeah. Really? So yeah, it's a, it's a very handy tool. And without that, we would be lost.
speaker-1: Explain to me your process in terms of how you put together a scene. Let's take for instance, something like a survivor because it's most of the audience would have seen survivor. What are the building blocks to make a good unscripted reality?
speaker-0: In a survivor, it's high emotion and conspiracy. Yeah. And the more you can drive those, the more watchable it is. Yeah. And that, the art of that is listening for the smallest little up sounds to make things controversial.
speaker-1: So you have a reality scene play out, you find the best bits of it, and then obviously the narration helps with it?
speaker-0: Your step one is starting with the scene. Our interviews are always second. We always want to tell the story with the reality first and keep the interviews, for to fill in the gaps. Right. And the best part about those scenes, it's created with all little looks and little, ⁓ looks, sound effects and music. Basically that's what you're doing. Yeah. It's finding the great scene, looking for the moment you want to get, and then building that up with looks. Yeah. And looks from other contestants, looks that could have happened. I think the nice thing about Survivor is they wear the same clothes every day. So you can steal looks from other days to make your story more impactful.
speaker-1: What makes a unscripted reality camera person in your opinion?
speaker-0: And a camera person is someone who listens, a camera person who listens to the story and knows exactly when to reframe and what moments. Yeah. And gives you all the, all the tools to tell your stories like wides, non-syncs and all those things to tell your story. ⁓ A wide shot. So a wide shot would be a wide shot of the scene where you could see if it's two people, you can see both or just a group shot really. And a non-sync is a shot where you can use that to cheat sync. So you cannot see the, you can see them, but you can't hear their mouth. You can't see their mouth moving. So you can cheat those shots and to create a better scene, a seamless scene.
speaker-1: In terms of all the projects that you've worked on over the years, what has sparked the most joy for you?
speaker-0: The most joy, mean, hands down, it's Survivor. I mean, you cannot beat working on a Survivor. The journey of that edit is just phenomenal because there's so many different ways you can take that story and every way is an exciting story, but you still have to choose the best one. there's just no, it gives you the most joy. Survivor gives you the most joy. When it comes to reality editing, there's no other show better than Survivor.
speaker-1: How has your storytelling in edit changed over the what? Five, six seasons of Survivor that you've edited? Has it changed?
speaker-0: season. I know definitely how it's changed. I mean, I remember when I, I, ⁓ I first started Survivor and I was with Craig. was, ⁓ I, it was overwhelming because we were working, we were working seven days a week, like 16 hours a day to get the show out. And I was overwhelmed, but the nice thing is Craig threw me at everything. did the reality. did the tribal councils. I did the games. I did the previously ons. with hungry and I got to, ⁓ got to, ⁓ experience all the different parts of survivor, which made me a strong editor where I got to learn about the music and how the music works and storytelling. then once I got that mastered, ⁓ I can't remember what season it was now. It is the one, ⁓ Samoa. ⁓ I'll go back and hungry told me, no, you got to be the finishing editor now on survive. And then there's a totally different art in finishing because now you have to bring a two hour episode into 45 minutes. And it was, it, it was so intimidating because I didn't, where do you cut? What do you lose? But Andri really taught me how to be a finishing editor because he would take my time. Lose from here to here and give me markers. But now that just becomes second instinct to me on how to cut down timelines. So I think as you go, you, mean, You cannot, every production you have to be learning on every edit. You have to be learning. If you're not learning on every edit, you shouldn't be in the game anymore because that's like, on another level as well, think what started happening as well, we never used to have content people really in, in edit. then, ⁓ which, which season it was our last season of survivor when our head of content, David Enright came into edit. And that opened up a whole new ball game for us because it also, we didn't know how to work with David now because we had never worked so closely with a content person. So both of us, ⁓ editor and I had to figure out, okay, how do we work together? And it took a while, but now we, ⁓ we can't do it without each other because we've just become so like we're attached to the hip now. you can't be a codependent. Yeah.
speaker-1: Grinning's a weird is that And it's beautiful for me to see how you and David now have a shorthand ⁓ specifically when it comes to finishing an episode. Because he would start a sentence and you would say, okay, I'm on it. literally five seconds later, it's the thought pattern is correct.
speaker-0: And most of the time, David and I have the same thought at the same time. And when he comes to, we, kind of converge together and have the same thought. I joke with Christine, my wife. I told her that David knows me much more just as well as you do. Cause he knows I'm not angry. He knows when things are irritating me and yeah, it's just been a great, it's, it's been a really great working relationship to have that in edit now. And I, I, I don't think a lot of editors have that. that experience of working so closely with people like that, which is so much fun.
speaker-1: What's the most important thing that you've learned as an editor, but to be a better ⁓ human being?
speaker-0: ⁓ definitely patience. ⁓ yeah, patience. ⁓ yeah, patience has been one of my biggest learnings from this. Cause I generally, I'm a very impatient person, very impatient. And this is definitely a patience game. Cause things don't come quickly. Yeah. And also when working with other people, when you know what you need to happen, but you have to run other people for it to get there and you know, there's a faster way. but you just have to let it go and patience teaches you to stay the course.
speaker-1: You are now the head of post-production for AfroCars and you've now done all of these amazing shows. We're busy with the big streaming show and that's a different kind of ball game. That's completely, you know, completely different way of doing of what we used to kind of, we used to kind of get the episode out as quickly as possible, but now you're really taking your time. And like you said in the beginning, ⁓ storytelling is now.
speaker-0: Yes
speaker-1: How do you think that storytelling is going to be redefined in the future with stuff like AI? Is it on the radar?
speaker-0: I mean, it definitely on the radar. And I think a lot of people feel threatened by it, but ⁓ personally, I don't think we need to feel threatened by just yet. Cause I don't think, I don't think that AI can possibly do what we do at the moment. Where AI is important for us is to help us get to the story faster. Cause what we're learning now on the show using AI to transcribe and our footage and interviews and everything. So we just get to a story faster rather than having to read through everything or watch everything. I think that's one of the biggest advantages where you don't have to watch everything anymore. Yeah. You can literally go and search for things on it's like stupid things. sometimes when we go back to the Frankenbites, Frankenbiting, we have to splice together interviews. Sometimes you have to look for an and or a but has anyone ever gone through hours of footage to look for a perfect and or but to fix a Frankenbite. But now with AI. with your transcribing, you can search for that and, and, but, and find those very quickly. So it's turned a couple of hour job into 10 minutes now. So I definitely think it helps us make the approach faster and then just easier. Yeah. But I don't think it'll ever be able to edit. I hope I don't eat those words. I hope I don't.
speaker-1: Andrew, you're going to say something to yourself for 18 years in to camera. The, the big thing for me is, mean, ⁓ you're talking now and the idea just kind of sparked. We are not far away from AI sampling a voice and then, and I'm sure it can do it already, but sampling a voice and then you basically type in what that person needs to say and.
speaker-0: Well, yeah, I mean, we've just recently had that. And, ⁓ I mean, we were playing around with these AI tools, recreating things, and it's just incredible the power on what it can do. I mean, you know, yourself fixing things for us, cause there are, there are things that need to be fixed in post-production. the famous saying, it's fix it in post. Yeah. Everyone's famous last words, it's fix it in post, but they don't know how expensive that is. But then you know, yourself, you've been our, you've been our Let's fix it
speaker-1: You know, I dabble in that department. My personal... My personal one would be that you fix it in pre-production. That would be ideal. Anyway...
speaker-0: That wasn't a loss. Also very controversial. But look, I, ⁓ or going back to that, I used to be one of those people that was very critical of a production crew. I'm like, why didn't they get that right on set and all that? And I think one of the best things was when ⁓ they started bringing us onto set for Survivor and you get to live on set and experience what happens there. And it's easy for us to sit in our air conditioned edit suites and complain to the people that didn't get what us editors wanted. Cause it's a hell of a difficult job out there in the, in the field. can complain about content people, but it's a difficult job to try and get all those things that can easily be missed. So yeah, I'm not that guy anymore.
speaker-1: ⁓ You're breaking the stigma of the collective noun for editors,
speaker-0: Own of editors. Yes. Our famous award. Look, he'll never stop us from moaning. We love a good moan. I love a good moan. Yeah.
speaker-1: In your opinion, what is the most difficult show that you've ever edited?
speaker-0: The most difficult show is definitely the current show we are working on. mean, all of them, all of them are difficult. that's like all survive is extremely difficult. And there's been shows that have just been difficult and horrible. And you just not interested in the show anymore, but then there's shows that are difficult and you definitely go through the five stages of grief in them. but it's still a show you can be proud to have worked on. mean, yeah, there are shows that ⁓ are really difficult to work on, but give you great joys. I mean, we did a show called ⁓ Claim Paradise for Cajetnet. ⁓ It was a new format and ⁓ it was a format that we still had to fill in the holes during edit. And it ended up being one of the most difficult shows I think all of us had worked on. But by the end of that show, it was such a privilege to have worked on it because It turned out to be such a nice, heartwarming show. it was a feel good show and it was different because it didn't have the, this person's going home. So the stakes were different for everyone. was definitely a more emotional show and it became less about the building and more about the people. Yeah. And I think everyone who worked on that show. Definitely to this day still says they want to do a second season because it was such a nice show to work on. But difficult wise, the show we are currently working on, definitely the most. difficult we've ever worked on, but in a good way.
speaker-1: I'll put a link in the description for playing Paradise just so you, if you are not familiar with that. What was the most fun that you've ever had on?
speaker-0: Fantastic shit. The most fun I've ever had on set was most probably when we did Survivor Philippines. Yeah, that was 28. That was just so much fun because we're in the Philippines and it was just so much fun. But I think generally all Survivor sets are just so much fun. It's just the camaraderie on those sets is just amazing. like, like, like just all the pipelines get on so well and everyone's just like. Everyone's just cool. It's just such a nice atmosphere to be part of and everyone's so invested in the show. It's just incredible. there's nothing like. What works their asses off on Survivor. I don't think people realize how difficult that show is to produce. yet it's weird. people work, like it's difficult. It's really difficult. And at the end of the day, people still come back happy and so invested in the stories.
speaker-1: Once everybody's working their arse-
speaker-0: I mean, when you sit in those edit suites, because obviously we lucky, get to sit in aircon edit suites. Well, it's like 40 degrees outside and you go through monsoons and everything while we sitting there. But when everyone comes in at the end of the day to come see us, they are so passionate about the stories. we get like, that's where we learn about the stories from the crew that come in every day. And it could be a random person who's not even involved. It's like the transport person comes in and knows more about the story than you. And it's just like that information is so much fun being on set at seeing that. And seeing everyone work so hard, it's just, it's so rewarding. And then, and then what it does is it makes you, when you go back, when everyone goes back, you want to do a good job. Cause you saw how hard everyone worked. You want to make the show good for them because they work so hard to get you the stuff that you need to make the show work.
speaker-1: What's the biggest lesson that you've learned in terms of editing unscripted?
speaker-0: Watching people's stories in reality is quite something. Cause I the general viewer doesn't get to see what we see. mean, we see everything. People's like, seeing reality contestants, like put so much into these competitions. I just take something like a master chef, for example, like this means a lot to people. These stories mean a lot to people like, that have entered, especially like a survivor. Cause it's a different type of person to answer. It's just. It just teaches you a bit of humility about the world because like it teaches you a lot. It does. think it makes you a stronger person and have a better outlook on things. Cause you see a lot of people's problems that never make it to air. Like it's a personal thing they've discussed during the shoot with another contestant and it does, makes you, it makes you more, it gives you a bit more humility about the world. And when you hear so many different people's stories from all walks of life, you look back and you're like, yeah, my life's not that bad actually. Yeah, I'm actually doing okay. Yeah.
speaker-1: Tell me ⁓ a horror story about an edit that you were part of.
speaker-0: Uh, once, um, when I still in my corporate video commercial, um, but the editing days, um, I did a launch campaign for a big mobile network that involved a comedian. I will not name names of those. And I was involved in the campaign and everything was going well. I enjoyed the edit and then it finished. And, I don't know what it was. I got very sick and I got a virus and I got admitted into hospital. And while I was in hospital, I got a phone call because I was with an agency at the time. And, apparently I was being sued for corporate espionage because I had given away, ⁓ industry secrets about this launch to this mobile networks competitor. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ okay. I mean, I never, yeah, I'm in hospital. I'm busy. Yeah. Anyway, the lady who was, ⁓ head of this agency, ⁓ wished death upon me. So lawyers had to get involved because I was being charged with corporate espionage. Yeah. And I wasn't allowed to work. And obviously I'd come out of hospital because I was quite sick at the time. And, luckily enough, I had to take like a good, I think I was off work for over well over a month because I wasn't allowed to work anymore because I was under investigation for corporate espionage. And, ⁓ in the end, they found out it was, ⁓ one of the employees at the company who had given the secret to her and it wasn't me. I still do that. I never got an apology. Yeah. But it was hardcore. I nearly lost my career because, um, uh, I had been accused of corporate espionage. It's crazy. And I was, mean, at the time, and at the time I couldn't do anything because I was in hospital and I was so sick, but luckily the, agency who I was with, uh, the lady that owned it, she was fully on my side because she knew I wouldn't do something like that. So she hung with her lawyers and
speaker-1: that.
speaker-0: That's like, yeah, it was just, it was crazy. was like, what the hell? Yeah. Corporate espionage.
speaker-1: You collaborate quite a lot with specific storytellers. You mentioned David Inwright, you mentioned Henry. ⁓ What's your favorite way of collaborating?
speaker-0: I think also at a stage now, ⁓ where I'm in editing right now is I normally don't get involved in the offline as much anymore. I get a long timeline with everyone's pieces. And, I love sitting down with David and watching an app and going, right, where are the holes in this app? How are we going to plug this? And we just craft that timeline, ⁓ until it's a complete story. I love it. I never, I used, I never used to like finishing, but I really am a big fan of it now. I love fixing those plugged holes. Yeah. Those holes that you need to plug. I enjoy doing it with, someone like David, cause it's just, it really is beyond the same way, wavelength of, of thinking. And it's just so much fun sitting with a whole timeline. Yeah. Still love offline though, but, finishing is definitely, yeah.
speaker-1: And, and, and I guess, ⁓ if you find that like-minded person that you know, you don't mind spending time with. It's, it's sick and married.
speaker-0: Yes. Oh yeah. mean, we spent too much time together. Way too much time together. Uh, it's beautiful. It's so rewarding. Cause I mean, you get to just bring that episode, uh, to life. Yeah. And it's just, it's, um, it was kind of weird. Like in the past, we would have to like present episodes to, uh, executives that are long and we still needed to work on it, but it became quite a competition for David and I to hand an episode over. that was complete ⁓ and ready for that. This is the episode.
speaker-1: because you both are quite competitive. We're to finish off with a round of quick fun. So first thing that comes up, this is just a little bit of fun to kind of see where you are at. Just quick answers. Timeline, clean or messy?
speaker-0: Yes. ⁓ clean.
speaker-1: Coffee or silence?
speaker-0: ⁓ no, I can't. Both.
speaker-1: First pass chronologically or emotionally.
speaker-0: Chronological.
speaker-1: Watch everything or search for moments.
speaker-0: Watch everything.
speaker-1: Music first or picture first?
speaker-0: picture.
speaker-1: Hard cut or dissolve.
speaker-0: Mmmmm
speaker-1: A reaction shot, essential or dangerous? ⁓ Voice over or confessional? Short episode or slow burn?
speaker-0: essential. official. Depends on the show, but yeah. But, yeah, depends on the show.
speaker-1: The worst note, make it pop or more energy.
speaker-0: Ah, more energy, yeah.
speaker-1: You're hunting first, character or plot?
speaker-0: plot.
speaker-1: villainated, found or built.
speaker-0: It would be both. Yeah.
speaker-1: Hey, Blindsight, Music Swirl or Silence?
speaker-0: It depends on the story, but both. Nothing like silence to tell her.
speaker-1: A little blindside story. Funniest moment. Keep or sacrifice for pace.
speaker-0: unfortunately sacrifice.
speaker-1: Tears hold longer or cut early. Narration. Narration explains or images explain.
speaker-0: Hold longer. Please hold longer. Yeah. images.
speaker-1: Too confusing or too obvious? Specifically with the current light.
speaker-0: At the moment it's too obvious.
speaker-1: Ending closure or ambiguity. Frank and Bytes, ⁓ do or last resort.
speaker-0: security.
speaker-1: felt detective over contestant? Is fairness possible in an edit? One frame can change meaning terrifying or exciting. Show truth or emotional truth.
speaker-0: ⁓ yes. Exciting. I definitely a marginal truth that you need to be.
speaker-1: Most stressful export percentage to stall on. ⁓ The moment you know the episode works.
speaker-0: ⁓ 97%. when watching and people are laughing and reacting.
speaker-1: The moment you know it doesn't.
speaker-0: and there's absolute silence in the room.
speaker-1: Biggest time thief, notes or media management?
speaker-0: Well, let's not get into media management, but media management.
speaker-1: Midlandane, calm, focus or chaos? Okay. And do you watch the final broadcast comfortably?
speaker-0: Chaos. Yes, you know.
speaker-1: Watching reality TV at home, analyzing or relaxing?
speaker-0: analyzing my wife hates watching with me. Cause I definitely know who's going home. So, ⁓
speaker-1: Yeah Seeing you the proudest of, was it subtle or spectacular? After that, watch something or avoid screams. ⁓ editing is closer to writing or directing.
speaker-0: Spectacular. Watch something. ⁓ writing.
speaker-1: Lovely. Yeah. Andrew.
speaker-0: It's been such fun. Thank you, Larry. appreciate that. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you for having me.
speaker-1: Knowing what you know, I think there's a much deeper delve into what you know. What would be the last kind of advice you would give to upcoming unscripted edits?
speaker-0: Yes. Yeah, what? Don't be afraid to dive in, man. I think it's one of the most rewarding storytelling you can do. I mean, it's like a blank canvas and there's a story there, but it's a blank canvas. ⁓ And it's so much fun. Yeah. So much fun. And it's real emotions. Yeah. It's real emotions that you're dealing with every day.
speaker-1: Beautiful. Cool. Thank you for joining us. Please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from and we'll see you next time.
speaker-1: Have you ever wondered what goes into the edit of an unscripted reality television show? Well, today we are sitting with Andrew Dixon. Andrew is head of post-production here at Afrikaans and is one of the foremost editors in the country when it comes to unscripted. He's worked on big productions like Survivor, Temptation Island and MasterChef. And Andrew is going to share his knowledge with us. My name is Leru Bwita and this is Unscripted. with Andrew Dixon. ⁓ So Andrew, thank you so much for joining and thanks for taking the time out of your, I know you're very busy at the moment ⁓ with a big production that is really very busy. mean, really busy. That is really taking some time now. Let's start there. How is your current project, which we can't name yet, but it is for a big streamer. Yes. How is that in terms of editing different from anything else that you've done before? Start off with the audio.
speaker-0: Wow. Yeah. It's, um, it's been very eye opening because, it's kind of like all the things we have learned in the past. I've been thrown out the window and it's like, there we go. Start from scratch and you kind of learning to edit again. So it's been very difficult, but it's someone's been rewarding and, uh, there's been many days where we've wanted to all quit and walk out and open a flower shop or something, which are. don't think we're much better or less stressful. But yeah, it's been eye-opening, but it's been very rewarding. It's just a different way of telling stories. And yeah, we have yet to still complete it and we'll see how turns out. Yeah. And it's going to turn out great because the lessons we are learning now is good going forward for ⁓ post-production as a whole. Yeah.
speaker-1: Let's go back. Where did you learn? Where did you learn how to edit? Tell me the backstory.
speaker-0: So when I grew up, I had a best friend who loved making home videos and he loved it. Like every time we're at his house, we're making, reenacting Jurassic parks and back to the futures. And we'd always make these home videos, but I never really had a love for, I enjoyed doing it, but I never had a love for movies or TV. And then we finished school. My friend became, went off and became a director and he started doing music videos. But I went to the UK cause I love DJing. So I was in the UK and I was working and DJing at a dorm-based nightclub. And it got a bit hairy there because there was lots of gangs involved. And one day I was at the club, cause I was a shift manager and then the bar, the club manager was there. And we're at the bar and this girl and this man came in and the girl asked for a drink and I asked her for her ID. cause I knew she was too young to drink and she pulled out this piece of paper. And she said, there's my idea and looked at it and it was her release, her prison release form. had just been released from prison. So I said to her, well, it doesn't give me your age here. So she was like, okay, fair enough. And she walked away and as she walked away, she picked up a chair and screwed at me and it smashed the whole bar apart. And her boyfriend started to try and attack me. So it was that day when I thought, you know what, I'm done with this club life and DJing.
speaker-1: over to it.
speaker-0: And then my friend said to me, like, Andrew, you do you like DJing? Maybe you'd like editing. It's the same kind of thing. Yeah. So like, okay. So then I came back to South Africa and he's like, just come to the office with me and hang out. So I went to his office. It was a production company in Johannesburg and I just hung out there for like, I was there for like six months. And then the one day the guy that owned the company, he says, he's like, what are you doing here? Yeah. So I said, were like, no, no, he's just learning how to edit. So he's like, Oh, okay. So then he's like, I'll pay you. He paid me a very small stipend every month and I started to learn how to edit. then from there, it just grew. And I started doing music videos and that, I started to learn all like after effects and DVD compilations at the time. And then from there, just grew and grew and grew. went into corporate videos. Um, and well, started in music videos, then went to corporate videos. And then one day I. ⁓ was, ⁓ I was asked to do a reality show and that was at curious pictures in Johannesburg. And that's how I met, ⁓ hungry, ⁓ Bassoon and Craig Blexley. And from there, it's kind of history. And I got onto my first big reality show, which was MasterChef. And that was where I found my love for reality television. Yeah. And I got to sit with the best and learn, which was like still today. cannot believe I got to sit with Craig and hungry. and Donald Clark and all of them and learn this trade, which, I never looked back. Yeah. Never touched a corporate or music video again.
speaker-1: That's incredible. So you're a storyteller at heart. mean, through and through. that's your passion. Where do you start when you get a survivor or you get a master chef or you get... ⁓ Where do you start?
speaker-0: That Craig always does when he starts at the beginning. Yeah. it's quite funny that cause obviously you get your, you get all your, ⁓ content notes and everything from the ⁓ content producers and everyone involved in putting the story together. But obviously they haven't seen everything. So like Craig always taught me is watch everything. So you kind of have the story and you watch from the beginning and you start to pull out those moments that tell the story and then color in with things that no one has seen of the story. So basically that's how it works. Not as easy, I'm making it sound very easy, but it's, it's, it's no luck. Those five stages of grief. You definitely go through the five stages of grief and editing where you think something's working and then it just falls apart. Yeah. And then, ⁓ the joy of finding that it's working again. Yeah.
speaker-1: In essence, the fact that you have to kind of watch everything is a lot. There's a lot that goes with that because I mean, I know for instance, on The Survivor, it's almost 24 hours of filming happening for 39 days. And there is a lot that ends up on the cutting floor.
speaker-0: I mean, most of it lands up on the cutting floor. And the thing is the things that we see, it's just incredible. think that's the problem. I think the problem is the things that land up on the cutting floor are really great moments that show a person's personality and character. But those things are thrown away because there's no time for that. So we miss a lot of things, a lot of really dodgy things as well that people don't see. ⁓ But it's, it really is, a lot of work and it is a labor of love. And I think that's why a lot of editors are perhaps intimidated by reality because it is so much work. And obviously we don't get the luxury of time. So to watch through everything and try and cut an ep, ⁓ it's, it's very short time. So it's, it's can be stressful, but it's like, there's nothing better than having an ep, ⁓ presented to the executives and that when you know, you've worked your
speaker-1: Bye-bye.
speaker-0: on it and it got the reaction that you wanted it to get.
speaker-1: In terms of that, there's a lot of work that goes into the story producers kind of coming up with a story. ⁓ how often does it happen that the story producers present a story to you as an ⁓ editor and what they present is just not there on camera.
speaker-0: a bit controversial. it happens, it happens a lot. It does happen a lot. And sometimes we are forced to make that story work. And that means stealing from everywhere to try and make the story work. But there has been a lot of times where someone has sold a story, which decision makers have found the story to be groundbreaking. And it is, and then when you see it, you're like, we cannot base our episode around this because it actually is very weak. Yeah. And then you just have to come up with a plan to, I mean, you know, Louie, the things we've done to make a story work. I mean, we still tell him the truth, but it's just...
speaker-1: Yeah, from a slightly different anchor. There's a term in the editing world called Frankenbite.
speaker-0: ⁓ Frankenbiting, yes. use that? Frankenbiting is most probably one of the biggest tools we have. ⁓ I suppose some people would think it's controversial as well, cause you putting words into people's mouth, but basically, basically it's taking an interview and cutting it up to make the person say what you want them to say. But obviously you have to be very careful because you don't want them to say things that they wouldn't have said, or it's something you're trying to make controversy. You have to still keep it in line with what the story is. And the contestants participants truth. Yeah. And that is also very tricky because the problem is you take it from when you Frankenbite an interview, you take it from many different interviews, which have to be covered and made to look seamless. So, and it's a handy tool and a lot of people are against it because you are putting words in someone's mouth. But I think the words we are putting in their mouths are still the truth. Yeah. It's just our truth. Yeah.
speaker-1: To aid our story, I mean...
speaker-0: Bagel story, yes. Yeah. It's still their story though, but it's just, unfortunately we, they didn't say it in a more accurate or not accurate, a more direct way. So we make them say it in a direct way. So I always joke. I always say like, do you think some of the contestants always sit back and they're watching like, I never said that. Yeah. Or I never knew I sounded so profound. For me, no, it was, I making them sound profound.
speaker-1: And that's where your magic lies in, is the fact that you can take something that doesn't quite make sense and is possibly very long-winded and cut it down to a bite-sized sound bite that sounds like this person has the knowledge of play-to.
speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ exactly. Yeah. Unfortunately, some people are just really bad at interviewing that you making them say what they want to say, but better. So, ⁓ it's just the reality. It's just the reality of it. Yeah. Really? So yeah, it's a, it's a very handy tool. And without that, we would be lost.
speaker-1: Explain to me your process in terms of how you put together a scene. Let's take for instance, something like a survivor because it's most of the audience would have seen survivor. What are the building blocks to make a good unscripted reality?
speaker-0: In a survivor, it's high emotion and conspiracy. Yeah. And the more you can drive those, the more watchable it is. Yeah. And that, the art of that is listening for the smallest little up sounds to make things controversial.
speaker-1: So you have a reality scene play out, you find the best bits of it, and then obviously the narration helps with it?
speaker-0: Your step one is starting with the scene. Our interviews are always second. We always want to tell the story with the reality first and keep the interviews, for to fill in the gaps. Right. And the best part about those scenes, it's created with all little looks and little, ⁓ looks, sound effects and music. Basically that's what you're doing. Yeah. It's finding the great scene, looking for the moment you want to get, and then building that up with looks. Yeah. And looks from other contestants, looks that could have happened. I think the nice thing about Survivor is they wear the same clothes every day. So you can steal looks from other days to make your story more impactful.
speaker-1: What makes a unscripted reality camera person in your opinion?
speaker-0: And a camera person is someone who listens, a camera person who listens to the story and knows exactly when to reframe and what moments. Yeah. And gives you all the, all the tools to tell your stories like wides, non-syncs and all those things to tell your story. ⁓ A wide shot. So a wide shot would be a wide shot of the scene where you could see if it's two people, you can see both or just a group shot really. And a non-sync is a shot where you can use that to cheat sync. So you cannot see the, you can see them, but you can't hear their mouth. You can't see their mouth moving. So you can cheat those shots and to create a better scene, a seamless scene.
speaker-1: In terms of all the projects that you've worked on over the years, what has sparked the most joy for you?
speaker-0: The most joy, mean, hands down, it's Survivor. I mean, you cannot beat working on a Survivor. The journey of that edit is just phenomenal because there's so many different ways you can take that story and every way is an exciting story, but you still have to choose the best one. there's just no, it gives you the most joy. Survivor gives you the most joy. When it comes to reality editing, there's no other show better than Survivor.
speaker-1: How has your storytelling in edit changed over the what? Five, six seasons of Survivor that you've edited? Has it changed?
speaker-0: season. I know definitely how it's changed. I mean, I remember when I, I, ⁓ I first started Survivor and I was with Craig. was, ⁓ I, it was overwhelming because we were working, we were working seven days a week, like 16 hours a day to get the show out. And I was overwhelmed, but the nice thing is Craig threw me at everything. did the reality. did the tribal councils. I did the games. I did the previously ons. with hungry and I got to, ⁓ got to, ⁓ experience all the different parts of survivor, which made me a strong editor where I got to learn about the music and how the music works and storytelling. then once I got that mastered, ⁓ I can't remember what season it was now. It is the one, ⁓ Samoa. ⁓ I'll go back and hungry told me, no, you got to be the finishing editor now on survive. And then there's a totally different art in finishing because now you have to bring a two hour episode into 45 minutes. And it was, it, it was so intimidating because I didn't, where do you cut? What do you lose? But Andri really taught me how to be a finishing editor because he would take my time. Lose from here to here and give me markers. But now that just becomes second instinct to me on how to cut down timelines. So I think as you go, you, mean, You cannot, every production you have to be learning on every edit. You have to be learning. If you're not learning on every edit, you shouldn't be in the game anymore because that's like, on another level as well, think what started happening as well, we never used to have content people really in, in edit. then, ⁓ which, which season it was our last season of survivor when our head of content, David Enright came into edit. And that opened up a whole new ball game for us because it also, we didn't know how to work with David now because we had never worked so closely with a content person. So both of us, ⁓ editor and I had to figure out, okay, how do we work together? And it took a while, but now we, ⁓ we can't do it without each other because we've just become so like we're attached to the hip now. you can't be a codependent. Yeah.
speaker-1: Grinning's a weird is that And it's beautiful for me to see how you and David now have a shorthand ⁓ specifically when it comes to finishing an episode. Because he would start a sentence and you would say, okay, I'm on it. literally five seconds later, it's the thought pattern is correct.
speaker-0: And most of the time, David and I have the same thought at the same time. And when he comes to, we, kind of converge together and have the same thought. I joke with Christine, my wife. I told her that David knows me much more just as well as you do. Cause he knows I'm not angry. He knows when things are irritating me and yeah, it's just been a great, it's, it's been a really great working relationship to have that in edit now. And I, I, I don't think a lot of editors have that. that experience of working so closely with people like that, which is so much fun.
speaker-1: What's the most important thing that you've learned as an editor, but to be a better ⁓ human being?
speaker-0: ⁓ definitely patience. ⁓ yeah, patience. ⁓ yeah, patience has been one of my biggest learnings from this. Cause I generally, I'm a very impatient person, very impatient. And this is definitely a patience game. Cause things don't come quickly. Yeah. And also when working with other people, when you know what you need to happen, but you have to run other people for it to get there and you know, there's a faster way. but you just have to let it go and patience teaches you to stay the course.
speaker-1: You are now the head of post-production for AfroCars and you've now done all of these amazing shows. We're busy with the big streaming show and that's a different kind of ball game. That's completely, you know, completely different way of doing of what we used to kind of, we used to kind of get the episode out as quickly as possible, but now you're really taking your time. And like you said in the beginning, ⁓ storytelling is now.
speaker-0: Yes
speaker-1: How do you think that storytelling is going to be redefined in the future with stuff like AI? Is it on the radar?
speaker-0: I mean, it definitely on the radar. And I think a lot of people feel threatened by it, but ⁓ personally, I don't think we need to feel threatened by just yet. Cause I don't think, I don't think that AI can possibly do what we do at the moment. Where AI is important for us is to help us get to the story faster. Cause what we're learning now on the show using AI to transcribe and our footage and interviews and everything. So we just get to a story faster rather than having to read through everything or watch everything. I think that's one of the biggest advantages where you don't have to watch everything anymore. Yeah. You can literally go and search for things on it's like stupid things. sometimes when we go back to the Frankenbites, Frankenbiting, we have to splice together interviews. Sometimes you have to look for an and or a but has anyone ever gone through hours of footage to look for a perfect and or but to fix a Frankenbite. But now with AI. with your transcribing, you can search for that and, and, but, and find those very quickly. So it's turned a couple of hour job into 10 minutes now. So I definitely think it helps us make the approach faster and then just easier. Yeah. But I don't think it'll ever be able to edit. I hope I don't eat those words. I hope I don't.
speaker-1: Andrew, you're going to say something to yourself for 18 years in to camera. The, the big thing for me is, mean, ⁓ you're talking now and the idea just kind of sparked. We are not far away from AI sampling a voice and then, and I'm sure it can do it already, but sampling a voice and then you basically type in what that person needs to say and.
speaker-0: Well, yeah, I mean, we've just recently had that. And, ⁓ I mean, we were playing around with these AI tools, recreating things, and it's just incredible the power on what it can do. I mean, you know, yourself fixing things for us, cause there are, there are things that need to be fixed in post-production. the famous saying, it's fix it in post. Yeah. Everyone's famous last words, it's fix it in post, but they don't know how expensive that is. But then you know, yourself, you've been our, you've been our Let's fix it
speaker-1: You know, I dabble in that department. My personal... My personal one would be that you fix it in pre-production. That would be ideal. Anyway...
speaker-0: That wasn't a loss. Also very controversial. But look, I, ⁓ or going back to that, I used to be one of those people that was very critical of a production crew. I'm like, why didn't they get that right on set and all that? And I think one of the best things was when ⁓ they started bringing us onto set for Survivor and you get to live on set and experience what happens there. And it's easy for us to sit in our air conditioned edit suites and complain to the people that didn't get what us editors wanted. Cause it's a hell of a difficult job out there in the, in the field. can complain about content people, but it's a difficult job to try and get all those things that can easily be missed. So yeah, I'm not that guy anymore.
speaker-1: ⁓ You're breaking the stigma of the collective noun for editors,
speaker-0: Own of editors. Yes. Our famous award. Look, he'll never stop us from moaning. We love a good moan. I love a good moan. Yeah.
speaker-1: In your opinion, what is the most difficult show that you've ever edited?
speaker-0: The most difficult show is definitely the current show we are working on. mean, all of them, all of them are difficult. that's like all survive is extremely difficult. And there's been shows that have just been difficult and horrible. And you just not interested in the show anymore, but then there's shows that are difficult and you definitely go through the five stages of grief in them. but it's still a show you can be proud to have worked on. mean, yeah, there are shows that ⁓ are really difficult to work on, but give you great joys. I mean, we did a show called ⁓ Claim Paradise for Cajetnet. ⁓ It was a new format and ⁓ it was a format that we still had to fill in the holes during edit. And it ended up being one of the most difficult shows I think all of us had worked on. But by the end of that show, it was such a privilege to have worked on it because It turned out to be such a nice, heartwarming show. it was a feel good show and it was different because it didn't have the, this person's going home. So the stakes were different for everyone. was definitely a more emotional show and it became less about the building and more about the people. Yeah. And I think everyone who worked on that show. Definitely to this day still says they want to do a second season because it was such a nice show to work on. But difficult wise, the show we are currently working on, definitely the most. difficult we've ever worked on, but in a good way.
speaker-1: I'll put a link in the description for playing Paradise just so you, if you are not familiar with that. What was the most fun that you've ever had on?
speaker-0: Fantastic shit. The most fun I've ever had on set was most probably when we did Survivor Philippines. Yeah, that was 28. That was just so much fun because we're in the Philippines and it was just so much fun. But I think generally all Survivor sets are just so much fun. It's just the camaraderie on those sets is just amazing. like, like, like just all the pipelines get on so well and everyone's just like. Everyone's just cool. It's just such a nice atmosphere to be part of and everyone's so invested in the show. It's just incredible. there's nothing like. What works their asses off on Survivor. I don't think people realize how difficult that show is to produce. yet it's weird. people work, like it's difficult. It's really difficult. And at the end of the day, people still come back happy and so invested in the stories.
speaker-1: Once everybody's working their arse-
speaker-0: I mean, when you sit in those edit suites, because obviously we lucky, get to sit in aircon edit suites. Well, it's like 40 degrees outside and you go through monsoons and everything while we sitting there. But when everyone comes in at the end of the day to come see us, they are so passionate about the stories. we get like, that's where we learn about the stories from the crew that come in every day. And it could be a random person who's not even involved. It's like the transport person comes in and knows more about the story than you. And it's just like that information is so much fun being on set at seeing that. And seeing everyone work so hard, it's just, it's so rewarding. And then, and then what it does is it makes you, when you go back, when everyone goes back, you want to do a good job. Cause you saw how hard everyone worked. You want to make the show good for them because they work so hard to get you the stuff that you need to make the show work.
speaker-1: What's the biggest lesson that you've learned in terms of editing unscripted?
speaker-0: Watching people's stories in reality is quite something. Cause I the general viewer doesn't get to see what we see. mean, we see everything. People's like, seeing reality contestants, like put so much into these competitions. I just take something like a master chef, for example, like this means a lot to people. These stories mean a lot to people like, that have entered, especially like a survivor. Cause it's a different type of person to answer. It's just. It just teaches you a bit of humility about the world because like it teaches you a lot. It does. think it makes you a stronger person and have a better outlook on things. Cause you see a lot of people's problems that never make it to air. Like it's a personal thing they've discussed during the shoot with another contestant and it does, makes you, it makes you more, it gives you a bit more humility about the world. And when you hear so many different people's stories from all walks of life, you look back and you're like, yeah, my life's not that bad actually. Yeah, I'm actually doing okay. Yeah.
speaker-1: Tell me ⁓ a horror story about an edit that you were part of.
speaker-0: Uh, once, um, when I still in my corporate video commercial, um, but the editing days, um, I did a launch campaign for a big mobile network that involved a comedian. I will not name names of those. And I was involved in the campaign and everything was going well. I enjoyed the edit and then it finished. And, I don't know what it was. I got very sick and I got a virus and I got admitted into hospital. And while I was in hospital, I got a phone call because I was with an agency at the time. And, apparently I was being sued for corporate espionage because I had given away, ⁓ industry secrets about this launch to this mobile networks competitor. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ okay. I mean, I never, yeah, I'm in hospital. I'm busy. Yeah. Anyway, the lady who was, ⁓ head of this agency, ⁓ wished death upon me. So lawyers had to get involved because I was being charged with corporate espionage. Yeah. And I wasn't allowed to work. And obviously I'd come out of hospital because I was quite sick at the time. And, luckily enough, I had to take like a good, I think I was off work for over well over a month because I wasn't allowed to work anymore because I was under investigation for corporate espionage. And, ⁓ in the end, they found out it was, ⁓ one of the employees at the company who had given the secret to her and it wasn't me. I still do that. I never got an apology. Yeah. But it was hardcore. I nearly lost my career because, um, uh, I had been accused of corporate espionage. It's crazy. And I was, mean, at the time, and at the time I couldn't do anything because I was in hospital and I was so sick, but luckily the, agency who I was with, uh, the lady that owned it, she was fully on my side because she knew I wouldn't do something like that. So she hung with her lawyers and
speaker-1: that.
speaker-0: That's like, yeah, it was just, it was crazy. was like, what the hell? Yeah. Corporate espionage.
speaker-1: You collaborate quite a lot with specific storytellers. You mentioned David Inwright, you mentioned Henry. ⁓ What's your favorite way of collaborating?
speaker-0: I think also at a stage now, ⁓ where I'm in editing right now is I normally don't get involved in the offline as much anymore. I get a long timeline with everyone's pieces. And, I love sitting down with David and watching an app and going, right, where are the holes in this app? How are we going to plug this? And we just craft that timeline, ⁓ until it's a complete story. I love it. I never, I used, I never used to like finishing, but I really am a big fan of it now. I love fixing those plugged holes. Yeah. Those holes that you need to plug. I enjoy doing it with, someone like David, cause it's just, it really is beyond the same way, wavelength of, of thinking. And it's just so much fun sitting with a whole timeline. Yeah. Still love offline though, but, finishing is definitely, yeah.
speaker-1: And, and, and I guess, ⁓ if you find that like-minded person that you know, you don't mind spending time with. It's, it's sick and married.
speaker-0: Yes. Oh yeah. mean, we spent too much time together. Way too much time together. Uh, it's beautiful. It's so rewarding. Cause I mean, you get to just bring that episode, uh, to life. Yeah. And it's just, it's, um, it was kind of weird. Like in the past, we would have to like present episodes to, uh, executives that are long and we still needed to work on it, but it became quite a competition for David and I to hand an episode over. that was complete ⁓ and ready for that. This is the episode.
speaker-1: because you both are quite competitive. We're to finish off with a round of quick fun. So first thing that comes up, this is just a little bit of fun to kind of see where you are at. Just quick answers. Timeline, clean or messy?
speaker-0: Yes. ⁓ clean.
speaker-1: Coffee or silence?
speaker-0: ⁓ no, I can't. Both.
speaker-1: First pass chronologically or emotionally.
speaker-0: Chronological.
speaker-1: Watch everything or search for moments.
speaker-0: Watch everything.
speaker-1: Music first or picture first?
speaker-0: picture.
speaker-1: Hard cut or dissolve.
speaker-0: Mmmmm
speaker-1: A reaction shot, essential or dangerous? ⁓ Voice over or confessional? Short episode or slow burn?
speaker-0: essential. official. Depends on the show, but yeah. But, yeah, depends on the show.
speaker-1: The worst note, make it pop or more energy.
speaker-0: Ah, more energy, yeah.
speaker-1: You're hunting first, character or plot?
speaker-0: plot.
speaker-1: villainated, found or built.
speaker-0: It would be both. Yeah.
speaker-1: Hey, Blindsight, Music Swirl or Silence?
speaker-0: It depends on the story, but both. Nothing like silence to tell her.
speaker-1: A little blindside story. Funniest moment. Keep or sacrifice for pace.
speaker-0: unfortunately sacrifice.
speaker-1: Tears hold longer or cut early. Narration. Narration explains or images explain.
speaker-0: Hold longer. Please hold longer. Yeah. images.
speaker-1: Too confusing or too obvious? Specifically with the current light.
speaker-0: At the moment it's too obvious.
speaker-1: Ending closure or ambiguity. Frank and Bytes, ⁓ do or last resort.
speaker-0: security.
speaker-1: felt detective over contestant? Is fairness possible in an edit? One frame can change meaning terrifying or exciting. Show truth or emotional truth.
speaker-0: ⁓ yes. Exciting. I definitely a marginal truth that you need to be.
speaker-1: Most stressful export percentage to stall on. ⁓ The moment you know the episode works.
speaker-0: ⁓ 97%. when watching and people are laughing and reacting.
speaker-1: The moment you know it doesn't.
speaker-0: and there's absolute silence in the room.
speaker-1: Biggest time thief, notes or media management?
speaker-0: Well, let's not get into media management, but media management.
speaker-1: Midlandane, calm, focus or chaos? Okay. And do you watch the final broadcast comfortably?
speaker-0: Chaos. Yes, you know.
speaker-1: Watching reality TV at home, analyzing or relaxing?
speaker-0: analyzing my wife hates watching with me. Cause I definitely know who's going home. So, ⁓
speaker-1: Yeah Seeing you the proudest of, was it subtle or spectacular? After that, watch something or avoid screams. ⁓ editing is closer to writing or directing.
speaker-0: Spectacular. Watch something. ⁓ writing.
speaker-1: Lovely. Yeah. Andrew.
speaker-0: It's been such fun. Thank you, Larry. appreciate that. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you for having me.
speaker-1: Knowing what you know, I think there's a much deeper delve into what you know. What would be the last kind of advice you would give to upcoming unscripted edits?
speaker-0: Yes. Yeah, what? Don't be afraid to dive in, man. I think it's one of the most rewarding storytelling you can do. I mean, it's like a blank canvas and there's a story there, but it's a blank canvas. ⁓ And it's so much fun. Yeah. So much fun. And it's real emotions. Yeah. It's real emotions that you're dealing with every day.
speaker-1: Beautiful. Cool. Thank you for joining us. Please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from and we'll see you next time.
