Martin Wheatley: Hello and welcome to the Frontier Leader Show. I'm Martin Wheatley and each week I speak to leaders, coaches, practitioners and technologists out what good leadership looks like in an AI shaped world. While you still have the app open, please hit follow or subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. And if you want a practical starting point to leading with AI, I have a growing number of resources at theaileaderlab.com and the link will be in the show notes. And today we have a fantastic guest. are speaking to Jenny Ainsworth. Now Jenny is a bestselling author, keynote speaker and founder of Connection Intelligence, a methodology helping organizations build meaningful human connections across generations, locations and digital divides. She's also the author of a new book, Connection Intelligence and a former Disney European training manager with over 20 years experience. working with leadership teams across global sectors from finance to pharmaceuticals. So, Jenny, welcome to the show.
Jenny Ainsworth: Brilliant, thanks for being here, Martin. Absolute delight.
Martin Wheatley: And a fellow Yorkshire person. So that's even better for a Thursday afternoon ⁓ So first of look, congratulations ⁓ on ⁓ the of book. I have started reading it. I'm about 25 % of the way through. And, you know, I think it comes at the perfect time with all the changes in technology and how that's going to impact leaders, especially with, you know,
Jenny Ainsworth: Yes, absolutely.
Martin Wheatley: If you found this useful, please hit follow or subscribe. If you haven't already, then a review a rating genuinely help show. ⁓ And I truly appreciate it. The ai-leadalab.com has a host of resources for free. Everything you need to start leading with AI practically. And that's the AILeaderLab.com. And the link for that will be in the show notes. Until next time, bye-bye for now. different generations that are now in the workplace. ⁓ first off, congratulations on that.
Jenny Ainsworth: Thank so much, I'm so delighted it's finally out there.
Martin Wheatley: I bet it's the culmination of lot of research and obviously your career to date.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, absolutely that. research is what took its time actually because I wanted it to be global research. think sometimes in leadership a lot of the research can be very America centric ⁓ sometimes it doesn't translate as well ⁓ to the UK and Europe. So was really determined to make sure that I've got it as fully rounded as possible. So yeah, that was what took the time actually. ⁓ done.
Martin Wheatley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it's done and it's good. ⁓ before we get into a bit more of the meat of the book and the connection intelligence methodology, just give us a bit about your background in a bit more detail.
Jenny Ainsworth: Right.
Martin Wheatley: has your work led on to the connection intelligence?
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, absolutely. as said, my last corporate position ⁓ with Disney. ⁓ ⁓ I set up on my own, ⁓ well, actually the reason I set up was I was becoming increasingly frustrated by the consultants that we used to hire in. And I used to feel like everything was sort of off the shelf. They ⁓ coming in with a fixed ⁓ costing absolute fortune. And I just thought, you know, there must be better people out there than this. And eventually I thought, well, I'll just have to be one of them. So that was a reason why I set up on my own. leadership was always, always ⁓ real because know yourself, ⁓ one boss make ⁓ or break day, you know, a good boss. You can fly, you can saw, you can make mistakes, all of that sort of stuff, but just you enjoy working for them. And then
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, absolutely.
Jenny Ainsworth: versus a not so great boss and life at work can just feel excruciating, you know, when I've worked for both of those kinds of bosses. And so I wanted to try and help people in that space because, you know, I don't think people wake up and think, right, I really want to be a really crappy leader. I don't think they do. Some of them are magnificent at it, it has to be said. But I don't think it's through intention. I think it's through ignorance, actually, and just not recognizing their impact. And so I really wanted to work on that. And so it just kept evolving and evolving more in that leadership space, particularly now, you know, with people managing teams all over the world that were not even sort of sitting next to them in the same office that we used to do. So that's a whole other dynamic of leadership that I wanted to tap into as well.
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. we've from ⁓ people living in an office environment sitting next to the colleague and sit opposite the manager, whether they're an overbearing manager or a really supportive manager to now being either working internationally or at the very least hybrid. And it's a completely different skill set from ⁓ when first joined the workplace now having to juggle. do you speak to that person? do you tee up conversations? you're like I said I think this is a great topic and you kind of hit the center of pulling the different elements together in my head. So what is the connection intelligence all about and why does it matter?
Jenny Ainsworth: Well, it's, I mean, got in the book, I've got, if you can imagine, ⁓ is it, a Venn diagram where there's three circles in a triangle, if you can imagine that. ⁓ essentially I've said is if you think about ⁓ IQ, your to think rationally, to solve problems, to use your intelligence. Then you've got ⁓ EQ, that's another circle. So that's...
Martin Wheatley: Hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: That's your ability to recognize your own emotions and manage your own emotions, recognize them in other people and sort of adapt accordingly to other people. Then you've got AI. I've called it DQ, digital quoting, so it just fits in a bit neater. But that digital quoting, which is how to use digital tools, how to use AI tools purposefully and intentionally.
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. Yeah.
Jenny Ainsworth: And then sort of connection intelligence comes right in the centre of it. And that's how do I use all of that? My intelligence, using my EQ, using the tools available to me a good, intentional, purposeful way that allows me to relate to ⁓ people, whether I'm sitting next to them, whether I've never seen them before in my life, whether they're the same age as me or whether there's 30 years difference. It's that.
Martin Wheatley: Right. Okay. And like I said, think that's a fantastic way to phrase it. Cause the workplace now you've got baby boomers all the way through to, quite generation alpha yet, but ⁓ ⁓ a couple of years we will have, but, ⁓ they've all got ⁓ ways working, I suppose, or backgrounds to work in. how does, how does your methodology play to
Jenny Ainsworth: No. Right? Yeah?
Martin Wheatley: play to those different characteristics.
Jenny Ainsworth: I mean, ultimately, we're all brought up in a certain way and at a certain time. So, you know, when I was a teenager and as kid, were three on telly. There was BBC One, BBC Two and ITV. And then all of a sudden, 1982, Channel Four came. It was like, ⁓ so ⁓ and you to physically get up.
Martin Wheatley: You
Jenny Ainsworth: and turn the tally over so there were hours galore weren't there at home you you turn over ⁓ I did it last time and all of that no remotes all of that great stuff so that's that formed who I was and what access I had to culture and knowledge and all of that sort of stuff and then you've got kids now who have grown up in the YouTube era you know have got access to everything at the fingertips on a phone and all of that sort of stuff and it doesn't matter your age every single age seems to look at the generation below them and think you don't know you're born you lot you don't know you're born and and and that will go on forever that will go on forever what the the gen alphas are going to say to the next ones down in terms of you don't know you're born i don't know but they will but it so it's recognizing that my points my world view are all shaped by how i've learned how i've grown up
Martin Wheatley: Yeah.
Jenny Ainsworth: And some of that's brilliant and some of that could be better. I think if you said to somebody like me, who's a fully fledged Gen X or a baby boomer, would you say you're close minded? Most of us would say, absolutely not. You know, no, no, I'm really open minded. But yet our behaviour betrays that at work because you get somebody younger coming along saying, why don't we do this or could we do that? And, ⁓ this eye rolling or, ⁓ know, ⁓ don't know what... what they're talking about or I've got the experience so actually you know let's do things my way. So actually we are very close-minded in the workplace because we think our way works and guess what a lot of the time it does. I'm not going to say it doesn't because it does. That's what what's got you to where you are but if we're not prepared to at least bring in and listen and acknowledge different viewpoints we've at some point what was good
Martin Wheatley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: will just become okay, will become not great, will become poor. So we've got to sort of be open to not just people with experience, everybody, because everybody's got ideas and a different viewpoint. And it's about how do we align all of that? And so there might be on one project or one task, we're actually going to go with the ideas of the Gen Z person, because actually that's a really good idea. But for another task, you know what? Experience is going to pay out on this one, so we'll do we've always done. And so it's that flexibility of being open rather than just assuming that experience wins all the time because it doesn't.
Martin Wheatley: No, no it doesn't and there's a great table in your that gives the example of, I think it's the same example isn't it, but with the different lenses down how you would approach it talking to your baby boomer generation versus ⁓ and then Gen Z and ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah. Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: I've never really seen an example laid out like that. How you can actually apply it and think, actually, yeah, know what, asking your generation's head slightly more questions and asking for their behind it and to challenge it from their perspective, get a fresh perspective versus your baby boomers, which is a bit more formal and structured. And you it's fascinating when you lay out in that table and I've highlighted it on my Kindle so I can keep going back to it. You know, how that distinction kind of
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: maps across generations.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we've got to do. you know, people can be stubborn and say, I am what I am and this is who I am. But actually we're flexing all the time. You know, a funny story that you heard in the, you know, the pub or, know, whatever, you're going to tell that to your friend in a very different way that you're going to tell it to your granny. So you know when to flex and you know you think I'm not going to share that particular bit, but she'll still find this bit funny. So I'm going to tell her that are capable of flexing according to who we're speaking to, but there's something about at work. It's a case of no, this is my style and this is how it is, you know, and I think if we can just flex it a little bit, we're not changing who we are. I just think of it like a bit like a dial really. Sometimes you need to dial things up. Sometimes you need to dial them down, but ultimately All we're trying to do is just make it easier. doesn't want work to be more easy?
Martin Wheatley: Well yeah, I mean you're all working to deliver something why not make it easier to do it along the way and if the person, the leader who at the top or whoever, however it's structured has that, awareness of how they're communicating ⁓ I think makes a massive difference and ⁓ I can't I've honestly been as proactive with
Jenny Ainsworth: We are? Yeah, it does.
Martin Wheatley: my background. like I said, seeing that table laid out has actually, it's actually stopped me and made me think about, how I have phrased different scenarios differently now? ⁓ In hindsight, 20-20 vision, isn't it? it's, ⁓ it's really good example, I think.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah. But I love the fact that at least even that you're open to that, because I'm the same, know, even writing the book, was thinking of situations that I dealt with and thinking, now I know differently, I would definitely have handled that. better or differently or whatever but you know at the end of the day that's what growth and learning is all about isn't it there's no point you know it's not about justifying what you've done but at the end of the day i did what i did because i thought that was the best thing to do now i know better i might not be able to change what i've done in the past but at least you know i know better now if that similar situations arise and that's that's all we can do i think as human beings
Martin Wheatley: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. kind lens on leadership at the minute is all about ⁓ how AI is ⁓ going to change things how, you know, have probably, well, I've got numerous options of how implement it, but one of the two stark ones either it's going to go really, you know, on the one hand,
Jenny Ainsworth: We need.
Martin Wheatley: Teams are going to get flattened redundancies because everything's more automated on the other kind of is, you everyone is using it to better enhance how they do things and the capability of them, the teams, et cetera. ⁓ how do you kind of see the AI the chat, GPTs and everything? How do you see that sitting above and interacting with leaders, especially in the communication space?
Jenny Ainsworth: Well, for me, there's two things that the leaders have always sort of... Well, one thing that leaders always moan about is they haven't got time. They haven't got time. There's too much to do. I'm not going to dispute that, absolutely. But I also think that many, many leaders have put their stock and their identity in what they know. many, many leaders have put their stock and their identity in what they know. technically what they know and then they share that with so they get promoted and their identity and their strength and their comfort is in what they know. Now for those leaders and this is going to sound very stark ⁓ their ⁓ identity and their strength and their comfort ⁓ is in what they Now those leaders and this is going to very stark have every right ⁓ fear AI because if you don't do anything else ⁓ than rely on your knowledge, then AI absolutely is going to come and get have every right ⁓ fear AI because if you don't do anything else ⁓ than rely on your knowledge, then AI absolutely is going to come and get you. if you lean into fact of, we've now got ⁓ a lot of ⁓ have got their own AI platforms and things in their own companies. ⁓ And even if haven't, plenty out there that people can be
Martin Wheatley: Thank you. Hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: If I've got team members or me who can find out answers ⁓ find them out quickly and they're good answers, you go for it because actually that frees them up coming to me and me doing all of that. What that then gives me is time to actually lead ⁓ to spot.
Martin Wheatley: Hmm
Jenny Ainsworth: What does Martin need? Or Jane seems a bit quiet. You know, she's normally the first one to be put in the hand of it. What's going on there? And to be able to notice, you know, the human side of leading. So actually for me, lean into AI, use it wisely, use it to free your time up so you can lead in the proper sense of the word. I'm all for it.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, agree with what you know he's just said there. was a recent restructure by Jack Dorsey's company Block. And I don't know whether you saw it or not, where they think it was 10,000 people and the cut 4,000 management layer out because the kind of logic behind the thinking according to the article that they wrote about, was the management layer. does nothing other than move messages up and down the hierarchy. And they kind of stripped that out. And I mean, I don't know how many. people are now, you know, that the kind of span of control for a leader must be enormous now. But that to me is really short sighted because elements that a good manager or a good leader within an organization does all the stuff that you've just mentioned now, you know, do they pick up on the nuance that, you know, someone is feeling a bit down today, take them to one side, have that conversation, help coach them through whatever. And I just think there's a real risk that. Companies look at it just as a cost-saving layer reduction and they don't take that connection piece through to actually think it through for the longer term and the value.
Jenny Ainsworth: they'll end up recruiting, whether they fully recruit the full 4,000 is doubtful. But they'll end up recruiting a lot more at some point because they'll recognise that there is something fundamentally missing. So we're always on this balance between tech and humanity. And I do believe that they can go hand in hand. do. And it's finding that right balance, isn't it?
Martin Wheatley: Mmm, yum. Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. you any examples with clients that you've worked with where they've gone through this kind of challenge and how they balance the ⁓ new tech people question? ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, I mean, have to say, I think they're struggling. ⁓ that they're either going all in ⁓ showing people how to use the tech, which they need to show people. Of course they do. And how to use that wisely and all of that sort of stuff. That's great. ⁓ what I'm not seeing as much of is, OK, how are you going to now, how are you going to evolve as a leader? ⁓ How can you? better impact the business? Because this tech is impacting our business by allowing us to do X and Y and Z. How are you now going to impact the business better now that you've got that tech side of things doing those things for you? And I do not see that happening as much. there's all the focus on how to use the tech, ⁓ not how to balance that with the human side ⁓ leadership. And there's definitely room for both, definitely.
Martin Wheatley: you Yeah, I guess coming back to ⁓ original, ⁓ first point that we made about ⁓ dynamic being hybrid and everything that how in your experience, how can ⁓ leader build that psychological safety across? You've got the new tech coming in, you've got people who don't see each other every day, you've got people around the world. ⁓ what are some kind of practical ways that a leader can think about improving that?
Jenny Ainsworth: of all you've got to call it out and just say look you know if we were all in an office together you know people would be filing into a meeting room you'd be having a bit of a chat grabbing a coffee you know shooting the breeze a little bit before the before the meeting starts ⁓ now we sort switch on our cameras dead on the time that the meeting starts we get straight into it ⁓ you've lost all sort of glue ⁓ gluing you together So it's finding ways of doing that at the start of a meeting and building that in. I think in terms of meetings, too much is done where, you know, David gives an update, John gives an update, Catherine gives an update. ⁓ you know, ⁓ can understand the reason behind it. They're trying to be very inclusive and trying to make sure that people are aware. this is when you see people's eyes going off and you know they're on another screen as people are giving their update so therefore that is not a useful meaningful use of time ⁓ not helping people connect so if you really want the update fine get it uploaded somewhere and if those people want to look at it, can look at it, that's fine. How can we use that time to better connect with one another, to better know what's going on, to be able to say, I've had an issue this week that I'm struggling with. So how do we do that? The only way we can do it is to start to model.
Martin Wheatley: Thank
Jenny Ainsworth: that vulnerability being open, know, what's one thing I've learned this week? What's one thing I need for next week? Those sorts of things. So, you know, the learning, could be, it could be something, well, I didn't realize that you could do so and so, so and so on. Why did anybody tell me that? And it's like, oh, yeah, I've known it forever. Oh, flipping it, that would have saved me. Those sorts of things. Or it might be what I've learned is, you know, about this person, whatever it might be, what I'm looking for for next week is, you know, actually you're pulling on.
Martin Wheatley: Mm.
Jenny Ainsworth: the group together. The other thing as well, something that was told to me quite a few years ago that actually I thought ⁓ I don't like that, was if as a leader can say to your team right there's one thing I could start stop or continue doing that would help you feel be even more effective or insert would feel even more connected or whatever it might be, what would it be? And when somebody first told me that I thought, ⁓ I don't know, because what happens if they say well the one thing you could start doing is you know looking for another job and that'd be amazing and they said no I honestly don't think it will be, I think it will be really really small innocuous things and it was. It was things like email subject lines, timing of
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. Ha ha ha! Hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: meetings, really, really innocuous things. honestly can't remember anything that I fundamentally recoiled at and said, ⁓ I can't do that. I'm really sorry. ⁓ things were like, ⁓ all right, fine. ⁓ ⁓ that meant was I asked, I listened, and I acted. And that in and of itself bring psychological safety because people think at least she's open and she's wanting to do her best and all of that sort of stuff. So I think in this hybrid way of working it's you know what's one thing that we could start doing that would help you feel more connected or what's one thing that we could stop doing, whatever it might be and ask them you know and some people might not know on the spot so just give them a chance to have a think and to come back to you in a couple of days and I doubt that there'll be things that are so so outrageous that can't be implemented. But what that then does is you're building that safety, you're building that to stick you all together as a team, irrespective of how often you actually physically see one another.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's some good examples. I guess I think back to I ran some of my meetings ⁓ it very much a huddle kind of scrum focus quick five minute, five minute, not even five minutes, but what's going on, what's going on to the next meeting. And that isn't best way to get. know right things out there. There's a place for it if you're working tight on a deadline absolutely but you're right. psychological safety just coming back to your examples there starts with asking the small questions doesn't it? It doesn't need to be a grand unveiling of you are now psychologically safe. What do you need help with? on what do you think to this? What are the start stop examples? And I think that's
Jenny Ainsworth: Not a race, not a race. Ciao! Yeah, yeah.
Martin Wheatley: especially when teams are learning technology like AI at the minute, together I think that transparency openness, must be beneficial in the long run. It'll build a lot more trust and engagement as well.
Jenny Ainsworth: It definitely does. I think that the scale, the one to 10 scale, especially when everybody's sort of learning something like new tech or whatever, is really useful. So by that, you can say on a scale of one to 10, how confident are you at the moment in the use of this tool? One is, be any less 10 is super confident. And then around and you numbers. And this isn't about getting to 10. The next question you say, OK, right. So Jim, you're on three. So what's got you to three? What's working for you? So there's none of this, oh, you're not at 10, because that's shaming. And that's what makes people feel I can't say anything. But it's OK. So you're not on a one. You're not on a two. What's working there? Where is your confidence? OK. So, know, Jenny, you're on a six. So you're feeling a bit higher So what's got you to there? And then Jenny says, well, yeah, it's similar as Jim, but what else I've got is.
Martin Wheatley: Mm-hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: And he started to share that knowledge. And then your killer question is, OK, what needs to happen for you to just move one step further up the scale? You're feeling a bit more confident. Jim says, well, you know, I need to know more about this. Bill says, I need to know more about that. Jenny says, I need to. And before you know it, there might be somebody that says, well, I can do that for you, Yeah, yeah, we'll do that afterwards and I'll help you with that. you notice that there's a theme where a lot of people are thinking, yeah, that would be really helpful actually. Okay, all right then, ⁓ meeting, let's all have a look at that together. ⁓ what you're doing is you're modeling vulnerability vulnerability in the true sense of the word is just feeling okay in saying, I'm not sure actually. ⁓ And rather thinking I'm gonna be embarrassed by that or shamed, it's like, is there... anywhere in the team we can pull on help you with that or is it a common theme in which case let's all do it together and that really works I think.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, yeah, no, it's fostering that engagement and collaborative approach, isn't it? Which I think needs to be even more mindful with the tools in place. Like I said, know, a lot of people are going to start managing agents and it could quite easily just be quite siloed, individually siloed.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, definitely.
Martin Wheatley: corporate structures where you've just got a lot of individual people doing a lot of individual tasks albeit more tasks than ever completed in the space of a day. just coming back to ⁓ engagement piece around because there's a great stat on your book about gallop engagement, the cost lack of engagement. think it was 8.8 trillion from ⁓ which is just, ⁓ know, I had to Google how many zeros are in a trillion ⁓ know just mind-boggling and that's probably gonna, I don't know, are the results out for this year yet? I'm sure that will probably go up anyway. ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, it's ridiculous. Hello? Yeah, absolutely, I'm sure,
Martin Wheatley: And I was just going to lead on to the connection that's in your book, the three essential connections that every employee needs. And it kind of follows on from what we were just saying in terms ⁓ of safety. do you want to just cover off what those three connections are?
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, definitely. So the first one in order for people to feel really connected work and able to be at their best, to do the best work, enjoy working, they need three sort of core connections. The first one is connection to colleagues. ⁓ And that's the obvious one. most organisations have definite an element of remote working. People aren't all in the same space all at the same time. So it's not about being best friends with people, but it's going back to that safety. It's feeling that even if I don't see you day to day, you've got my back and I've got yours. I'm not feeling wary of you. All these connections used to happen organically. You'd be waiting for a coffee, you'd be grabbing a sandwich, you'd have a quick chat and stuff like that. So it's about how can we be more intentional about creating that connection to our colleagues, the people know what makes you tick, know what your hot buttons are, all of that sort of stuff. Then there's connection to resources. Now, again, when you're in an office you're trying to find a bit of information, we can turn to somebody who's been here forever and say, Martin, am I being... Where's so-so? I am looking everywhere on this internet site or this C driver. I can't find it. And you can have that conversation or there's somebody who has been around, who's got all that knowledge up in the head. And it can be so infuriating as a... ⁓ person at work just trying to find the answer to something that should be really really simple so it's how can we make life easier for people to be connected to what they need resource-wise to be able to do the job well so what can we do to to signpost things and make it easier so they're not spending forever trying to find stuff. So there's that as well. And that's actually more difficult than you think because this is where it goes back to. If you are familiar with stuff, you stop seeing where the glitches are. And if you know where to find something, it doesn't cross your mind to think, if I was brand new. How obvious is it that this is on that drive or that's on there or do you know what mean? And so actually it's thinking how do we walk through this experience as somebody with brand new eyes to think how easy is it to actually do your job and know where things are? And then the last thing is connection to the organisation which is the culture, the values. Do I feel like I belong? Do I feel like I can make a difference? Do I love?
Martin Wheatley: Mm. Cool.
Jenny Ainsworth: what they're doing and how they're doing it and the direction of travel, you know, all of it. So it's not just a job. I feel proud and enjoy working for that company. And I think those three things are really important in helping somebody have a good day at work.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess it comes back to the kind of, you've got to engage all your different generations to help you get that, to help you form that, especially with the to resources piece. Like you said, you've got people with knowledge in their head, institutional knowledge has been there for some decades, you know, sometimes. And getting out of someone's head and technology help once it's out of someone's head because it can help, ⁓ especially now can just chat to your computer and it'll tell you an answer for, or...
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah. Yeah? Yes.
Martin Wheatley: pointing in the right direction, but you still got to engage that human to build that infrastructure, digital kind of data infrastructure in the background to do it. no, it's, yeah, absolutely. It's three key essentials, I would say definitely for it. How do you use AI day to day? No.
Jenny Ainsworth: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I at the moment I tend to use these two AI tools platforms that I use I use Claude and I use Manus I use Manus more for what's the word I'm looking for visuals yeah so all my visuals in my book they're all sort of line drawings very simple I use Manus for all of those
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. ⁓ yeah. Okay.
Jenny Ainsworth: I described what I wanted, the style I wanted and what I wanted it to reflect and Manners created those, which was great. So I was really pleased with that. And then I'm using Claude more for some of the day-to-day stuff. It might be ⁓ through some of my old work or old posts or even old manuals, leadership manuals and saying, can you pull out? some topics that I can talk on from there or some posts and things like that, that's good. And then finally perplexity, I use perplexity a lot just to double check my research and make sure that it was absolutely sound in the book, you know, and because I just didn't, I wanted it to be credible and I did not want anybody to come back and say, where's this reference from? And me thinking, do you know, I actually don't know or... Well, I saw it on the internet, so therefore it must be right, right? It's just making sure that it was absolutely sound in terms of research. So they're the three.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah. Okay yeah there's a good three base isn't it.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, Claude's the one I tend to use for the main workhouse alongside Microsoft But yeah, certainly the checking bit. Perplexity, yeah, I agree. It goes out and actually does a decent ⁓ sense check of all your data. And you know, interesting in the world that
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: You can create content just at the drop of a hat. It's nice to know that you've written this book. It's your voice. It's your words. You've used the tools to support the research, but ultimately it's based on your experience and your so far. So that's been ⁓ fun. could talk about this all day. I love the whole element of how you can build engagement and ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Martin Wheatley: reinforced it continually reinforced and like you said like I've said sorry not always got it right in the past and it's continually learning and developing and know it's a fascinating topic especially when you look at the gallop numbers and you think wow this this much this is having this much economic impact there was always one question which I always found really on the I think it was the gallop survey was do you have a best friend at work I thought I don't know if I'd ever It's always a strange question is that to me do you have a best friend but I suppose it plays back to the The individual you know your co-workers and your colleagues been in that relationship space, but yeah, okay we shall move into the Second of the show where I am going to ask you for three three kind takeaways are three things that the the listener could Take away adopt put into practice. It could be a book
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does.
Martin Wheatley: your book could be a recommendation of an article, a TV program or anything that you think would be useful for them to take away based on the conversations we're having.
Jenny Ainsworth: Well, I have to get my book, get my book, get my book! ⁓ mother, you're keeping the fridge, ⁓ keeping the fridge full and the lights on people if you buy it!
Martin Wheatley: be disappointed if you haven't said that.
Jenny Ainsworth: Right, honestly, I was just talking with you, Martin just before we started recording. There's so many management books that I think, I really like the sound of that. And then I get in, think, ⁓ you know, it's like wading through treacle. And I just think, ⁓ just give me the exact summary. It's just too hard to wade through. I'm hoping is that this book is the complete opposite of that. I think it's something you can read from start to finish, but I also think it's something that you can just dip into and find the bits that are important to you, you know, and that are helpful. So love you to have a look. Kindle, it's also on paperback so you know do go and have a look at that, I think it's really well worth it as a ⁓ in AI space. In terms of other things, I hope what people have taken on board is, what I said a little bit earlier is this sense of If somebody said to you, are you open-minded? Most of us would say yes, but actually our behaviour betrays that. And what I'd say is, you know, wherever you are in your career and in your leadership career, your experience counts, it absolutely counts, and it's not gospel. So be that brilliant person who can still be open to new things coming in, new suggestions. Don't dismiss it out of hand. Even if deep down you think, know this won't work. It's like, just be a bit more open to and a bit more curious about asking a few more questions to see even if it can't fully work, can some of it work? It's that kind of thing, you know, it does have to be either or, it can be a sum. So just be open and recognise that everybody has got some value and some worth to bring and it's tapping into all of that brilliance. ⁓
Martin Wheatley: Amen. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Yeah, absolutely.
Jenny Ainsworth: What's the third one? What's the third one, Martin? the leader that you want to be, you know? Use good awareness about that ⁓ and about what's frustrated you with bosses in the past, being micromanaged, being told what to do when you think, I know what to do, you don't treat me as an idiot. ⁓ Or the other end of the scale, being left completely on your own where you think, He or she would have no idea what I'm managing in this situation because they just never ask. So be, ⁓ use tools that are there to free you up to be the boss that you would love to have had in your career. Be kind, be give people stretch, all the things that everybody needs in the workplace.
Martin Wheatley: Fantastic. They are three fantastic things. So I'll just summarize them because I think it's ⁓ repeating. Be the leader you want to be. Be the person who is open to feedback and buy the book because the book will help connect everything together. Absolutely. And you know, it's the book I wish I had when I was starting out because it does do that genuinely. that has been...
Jenny Ainsworth: Yep. Yes! Thank you.
Martin Wheatley: Fantastic conversation. Thank you very much. Where can people find you? Where can people reach out to you they want to work more with you?
Jenny Ainsworth: They can come either to my website, which is simple as jennyainsworth.com or come and find me on LinkedIn. And it literally is again, linkedin.com forward slash Jenny, forward, slaph, forward slash Jenny Ainsworth. Come and see me. If you've come via this, this pod, let me know. Cause it's always good to know that how, how, you know, all the connections work and all of that sort of stuff. That would be great.
Martin Wheatley: Mmm. Fantastic. Thank you very much. We will put all the links to Jenny, to her book, the page, to website and to a link to it on the show notes. So yeah, reach out to Jenny and thank you very much.
Jenny Ainsworth: Thank you.
Jenny Ainsworth: Brilliant, thanks for being here, Martin. Absolute delight.
Martin Wheatley: And a fellow Yorkshire person. So that's even better for a Thursday afternoon ⁓ So first of look, congratulations ⁓ on ⁓ the of book. I have started reading it. I'm about 25 % of the way through. And, you know, I think it comes at the perfect time with all the changes in technology and how that's going to impact leaders, especially with, you know,
Jenny Ainsworth: Yes, absolutely.
Martin Wheatley: If you found this useful, please hit follow or subscribe. If you haven't already, then a review a rating genuinely help show. ⁓ And I truly appreciate it. The ai-leadalab.com has a host of resources for free. Everything you need to start leading with AI practically. And that's the AILeaderLab.com. And the link for that will be in the show notes. Until next time, bye-bye for now. different generations that are now in the workplace. ⁓ first off, congratulations on that.
Jenny Ainsworth: Thank so much, I'm so delighted it's finally out there.
Martin Wheatley: I bet it's the culmination of lot of research and obviously your career to date.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, absolutely that. research is what took its time actually because I wanted it to be global research. think sometimes in leadership a lot of the research can be very America centric ⁓ sometimes it doesn't translate as well ⁓ to the UK and Europe. So was really determined to make sure that I've got it as fully rounded as possible. So yeah, that was what took the time actually. ⁓ done.
Martin Wheatley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it's done and it's good. ⁓ before we get into a bit more of the meat of the book and the connection intelligence methodology, just give us a bit about your background in a bit more detail.
Jenny Ainsworth: Right.
Martin Wheatley: has your work led on to the connection intelligence?
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, absolutely. as said, my last corporate position ⁓ with Disney. ⁓ ⁓ I set up on my own, ⁓ well, actually the reason I set up was I was becoming increasingly frustrated by the consultants that we used to hire in. And I used to feel like everything was sort of off the shelf. They ⁓ coming in with a fixed ⁓ costing absolute fortune. And I just thought, you know, there must be better people out there than this. And eventually I thought, well, I'll just have to be one of them. So that was a reason why I set up on my own. leadership was always, always ⁓ real because know yourself, ⁓ one boss make ⁓ or break day, you know, a good boss. You can fly, you can saw, you can make mistakes, all of that sort of stuff, but just you enjoy working for them. And then
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, absolutely.
Jenny Ainsworth: versus a not so great boss and life at work can just feel excruciating, you know, when I've worked for both of those kinds of bosses. And so I wanted to try and help people in that space because, you know, I don't think people wake up and think, right, I really want to be a really crappy leader. I don't think they do. Some of them are magnificent at it, it has to be said. But I don't think it's through intention. I think it's through ignorance, actually, and just not recognizing their impact. And so I really wanted to work on that. And so it just kept evolving and evolving more in that leadership space, particularly now, you know, with people managing teams all over the world that were not even sort of sitting next to them in the same office that we used to do. So that's a whole other dynamic of leadership that I wanted to tap into as well.
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. we've from ⁓ people living in an office environment sitting next to the colleague and sit opposite the manager, whether they're an overbearing manager or a really supportive manager to now being either working internationally or at the very least hybrid. And it's a completely different skill set from ⁓ when first joined the workplace now having to juggle. do you speak to that person? do you tee up conversations? you're like I said I think this is a great topic and you kind of hit the center of pulling the different elements together in my head. So what is the connection intelligence all about and why does it matter?
Jenny Ainsworth: Well, it's, I mean, got in the book, I've got, if you can imagine, ⁓ is it, a Venn diagram where there's three circles in a triangle, if you can imagine that. ⁓ essentially I've said is if you think about ⁓ IQ, your to think rationally, to solve problems, to use your intelligence. Then you've got ⁓ EQ, that's another circle. So that's...
Martin Wheatley: Hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: That's your ability to recognize your own emotions and manage your own emotions, recognize them in other people and sort of adapt accordingly to other people. Then you've got AI. I've called it DQ, digital quoting, so it just fits in a bit neater. But that digital quoting, which is how to use digital tools, how to use AI tools purposefully and intentionally.
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. Yeah.
Jenny Ainsworth: And then sort of connection intelligence comes right in the centre of it. And that's how do I use all of that? My intelligence, using my EQ, using the tools available to me a good, intentional, purposeful way that allows me to relate to ⁓ people, whether I'm sitting next to them, whether I've never seen them before in my life, whether they're the same age as me or whether there's 30 years difference. It's that.
Martin Wheatley: Right. Okay. And like I said, think that's a fantastic way to phrase it. Cause the workplace now you've got baby boomers all the way through to, quite generation alpha yet, but ⁓ ⁓ a couple of years we will have, but, ⁓ they've all got ⁓ ways working, I suppose, or backgrounds to work in. how does, how does your methodology play to
Jenny Ainsworth: No. Right? Yeah?
Martin Wheatley: play to those different characteristics.
Jenny Ainsworth: I mean, ultimately, we're all brought up in a certain way and at a certain time. So, you know, when I was a teenager and as kid, were three on telly. There was BBC One, BBC Two and ITV. And then all of a sudden, 1982, Channel Four came. It was like, ⁓ so ⁓ and you to physically get up.
Martin Wheatley: You
Jenny Ainsworth: and turn the tally over so there were hours galore weren't there at home you you turn over ⁓ I did it last time and all of that no remotes all of that great stuff so that's that formed who I was and what access I had to culture and knowledge and all of that sort of stuff and then you've got kids now who have grown up in the YouTube era you know have got access to everything at the fingertips on a phone and all of that sort of stuff and it doesn't matter your age every single age seems to look at the generation below them and think you don't know you're born you lot you don't know you're born and and and that will go on forever that will go on forever what the the gen alphas are going to say to the next ones down in terms of you don't know you're born i don't know but they will but it so it's recognizing that my points my world view are all shaped by how i've learned how i've grown up
Martin Wheatley: Yeah.
Jenny Ainsworth: And some of that's brilliant and some of that could be better. I think if you said to somebody like me, who's a fully fledged Gen X or a baby boomer, would you say you're close minded? Most of us would say, absolutely not. You know, no, no, I'm really open minded. But yet our behaviour betrays that at work because you get somebody younger coming along saying, why don't we do this or could we do that? And, ⁓ this eye rolling or, ⁓ know, ⁓ don't know what... what they're talking about or I've got the experience so actually you know let's do things my way. So actually we are very close-minded in the workplace because we think our way works and guess what a lot of the time it does. I'm not going to say it doesn't because it does. That's what what's got you to where you are but if we're not prepared to at least bring in and listen and acknowledge different viewpoints we've at some point what was good
Martin Wheatley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: will just become okay, will become not great, will become poor. So we've got to sort of be open to not just people with experience, everybody, because everybody's got ideas and a different viewpoint. And it's about how do we align all of that? And so there might be on one project or one task, we're actually going to go with the ideas of the Gen Z person, because actually that's a really good idea. But for another task, you know what? Experience is going to pay out on this one, so we'll do we've always done. And so it's that flexibility of being open rather than just assuming that experience wins all the time because it doesn't.
Martin Wheatley: No, no it doesn't and there's a great table in your that gives the example of, I think it's the same example isn't it, but with the different lenses down how you would approach it talking to your baby boomer generation versus ⁓ and then Gen Z and ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah. Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: I've never really seen an example laid out like that. How you can actually apply it and think, actually, yeah, know what, asking your generation's head slightly more questions and asking for their behind it and to challenge it from their perspective, get a fresh perspective versus your baby boomers, which is a bit more formal and structured. And you it's fascinating when you lay out in that table and I've highlighted it on my Kindle so I can keep going back to it. You know, how that distinction kind of
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: maps across generations.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we've got to do. you know, people can be stubborn and say, I am what I am and this is who I am. But actually we're flexing all the time. You know, a funny story that you heard in the, you know, the pub or, know, whatever, you're going to tell that to your friend in a very different way that you're going to tell it to your granny. So you know when to flex and you know you think I'm not going to share that particular bit, but she'll still find this bit funny. So I'm going to tell her that are capable of flexing according to who we're speaking to, but there's something about at work. It's a case of no, this is my style and this is how it is, you know, and I think if we can just flex it a little bit, we're not changing who we are. I just think of it like a bit like a dial really. Sometimes you need to dial things up. Sometimes you need to dial them down, but ultimately All we're trying to do is just make it easier. doesn't want work to be more easy?
Martin Wheatley: Well yeah, I mean you're all working to deliver something why not make it easier to do it along the way and if the person, the leader who at the top or whoever, however it's structured has that, awareness of how they're communicating ⁓ I think makes a massive difference and ⁓ I can't I've honestly been as proactive with
Jenny Ainsworth: We are? Yeah, it does.
Martin Wheatley: my background. like I said, seeing that table laid out has actually, it's actually stopped me and made me think about, how I have phrased different scenarios differently now? ⁓ In hindsight, 20-20 vision, isn't it? it's, ⁓ it's really good example, I think.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah. But I love the fact that at least even that you're open to that, because I'm the same, know, even writing the book, was thinking of situations that I dealt with and thinking, now I know differently, I would definitely have handled that. better or differently or whatever but you know at the end of the day that's what growth and learning is all about isn't it there's no point you know it's not about justifying what you've done but at the end of the day i did what i did because i thought that was the best thing to do now i know better i might not be able to change what i've done in the past but at least you know i know better now if that similar situations arise and that's that's all we can do i think as human beings
Martin Wheatley: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. kind lens on leadership at the minute is all about ⁓ how AI is ⁓ going to change things how, you know, have probably, well, I've got numerous options of how implement it, but one of the two stark ones either it's going to go really, you know, on the one hand,
Jenny Ainsworth: We need.
Martin Wheatley: Teams are going to get flattened redundancies because everything's more automated on the other kind of is, you everyone is using it to better enhance how they do things and the capability of them, the teams, et cetera. ⁓ how do you kind of see the AI the chat, GPTs and everything? How do you see that sitting above and interacting with leaders, especially in the communication space?
Jenny Ainsworth: Well, for me, there's two things that the leaders have always sort of... Well, one thing that leaders always moan about is they haven't got time. They haven't got time. There's too much to do. I'm not going to dispute that, absolutely. But I also think that many, many leaders have put their stock and their identity in what they know. many, many leaders have put their stock and their identity in what they know. technically what they know and then they share that with so they get promoted and their identity and their strength and their comfort is in what they know. Now for those leaders and this is going to sound very stark ⁓ their ⁓ identity and their strength and their comfort ⁓ is in what they Now those leaders and this is going to very stark have every right ⁓ fear AI because if you don't do anything else ⁓ than rely on your knowledge, then AI absolutely is going to come and get have every right ⁓ fear AI because if you don't do anything else ⁓ than rely on your knowledge, then AI absolutely is going to come and get you. if you lean into fact of, we've now got ⁓ a lot of ⁓ have got their own AI platforms and things in their own companies. ⁓ And even if haven't, plenty out there that people can be
Martin Wheatley: Thank you. Hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: If I've got team members or me who can find out answers ⁓ find them out quickly and they're good answers, you go for it because actually that frees them up coming to me and me doing all of that. What that then gives me is time to actually lead ⁓ to spot.
Martin Wheatley: Hmm
Jenny Ainsworth: What does Martin need? Or Jane seems a bit quiet. You know, she's normally the first one to be put in the hand of it. What's going on there? And to be able to notice, you know, the human side of leading. So actually for me, lean into AI, use it wisely, use it to free your time up so you can lead in the proper sense of the word. I'm all for it.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, agree with what you know he's just said there. was a recent restructure by Jack Dorsey's company Block. And I don't know whether you saw it or not, where they think it was 10,000 people and the cut 4,000 management layer out because the kind of logic behind the thinking according to the article that they wrote about, was the management layer. does nothing other than move messages up and down the hierarchy. And they kind of stripped that out. And I mean, I don't know how many. people are now, you know, that the kind of span of control for a leader must be enormous now. But that to me is really short sighted because elements that a good manager or a good leader within an organization does all the stuff that you've just mentioned now, you know, do they pick up on the nuance that, you know, someone is feeling a bit down today, take them to one side, have that conversation, help coach them through whatever. And I just think there's a real risk that. Companies look at it just as a cost-saving layer reduction and they don't take that connection piece through to actually think it through for the longer term and the value.
Jenny Ainsworth: they'll end up recruiting, whether they fully recruit the full 4,000 is doubtful. But they'll end up recruiting a lot more at some point because they'll recognise that there is something fundamentally missing. So we're always on this balance between tech and humanity. And I do believe that they can go hand in hand. do. And it's finding that right balance, isn't it?
Martin Wheatley: Mmm, yum. Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. you any examples with clients that you've worked with where they've gone through this kind of challenge and how they balance the ⁓ new tech people question? ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, I mean, have to say, I think they're struggling. ⁓ that they're either going all in ⁓ showing people how to use the tech, which they need to show people. Of course they do. And how to use that wisely and all of that sort of stuff. That's great. ⁓ what I'm not seeing as much of is, OK, how are you going to now, how are you going to evolve as a leader? ⁓ How can you? better impact the business? Because this tech is impacting our business by allowing us to do X and Y and Z. How are you now going to impact the business better now that you've got that tech side of things doing those things for you? And I do not see that happening as much. there's all the focus on how to use the tech, ⁓ not how to balance that with the human side ⁓ leadership. And there's definitely room for both, definitely.
Martin Wheatley: you Yeah, I guess coming back to ⁓ original, ⁓ first point that we made about ⁓ dynamic being hybrid and everything that how in your experience, how can ⁓ leader build that psychological safety across? You've got the new tech coming in, you've got people who don't see each other every day, you've got people around the world. ⁓ what are some kind of practical ways that a leader can think about improving that?
Jenny Ainsworth: of all you've got to call it out and just say look you know if we were all in an office together you know people would be filing into a meeting room you'd be having a bit of a chat grabbing a coffee you know shooting the breeze a little bit before the before the meeting starts ⁓ now we sort switch on our cameras dead on the time that the meeting starts we get straight into it ⁓ you've lost all sort of glue ⁓ gluing you together So it's finding ways of doing that at the start of a meeting and building that in. I think in terms of meetings, too much is done where, you know, David gives an update, John gives an update, Catherine gives an update. ⁓ you know, ⁓ can understand the reason behind it. They're trying to be very inclusive and trying to make sure that people are aware. this is when you see people's eyes going off and you know they're on another screen as people are giving their update so therefore that is not a useful meaningful use of time ⁓ not helping people connect so if you really want the update fine get it uploaded somewhere and if those people want to look at it, can look at it, that's fine. How can we use that time to better connect with one another, to better know what's going on, to be able to say, I've had an issue this week that I'm struggling with. So how do we do that? The only way we can do it is to start to model.
Martin Wheatley: Thank
Jenny Ainsworth: that vulnerability being open, know, what's one thing I've learned this week? What's one thing I need for next week? Those sorts of things. So, you know, the learning, could be, it could be something, well, I didn't realize that you could do so and so, so and so on. Why did anybody tell me that? And it's like, oh, yeah, I've known it forever. Oh, flipping it, that would have saved me. Those sorts of things. Or it might be what I've learned is, you know, about this person, whatever it might be, what I'm looking for for next week is, you know, actually you're pulling on.
Martin Wheatley: Mm.
Jenny Ainsworth: the group together. The other thing as well, something that was told to me quite a few years ago that actually I thought ⁓ I don't like that, was if as a leader can say to your team right there's one thing I could start stop or continue doing that would help you feel be even more effective or insert would feel even more connected or whatever it might be, what would it be? And when somebody first told me that I thought, ⁓ I don't know, because what happens if they say well the one thing you could start doing is you know looking for another job and that'd be amazing and they said no I honestly don't think it will be, I think it will be really really small innocuous things and it was. It was things like email subject lines, timing of
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. Ha ha ha! Hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: meetings, really, really innocuous things. honestly can't remember anything that I fundamentally recoiled at and said, ⁓ I can't do that. I'm really sorry. ⁓ things were like, ⁓ all right, fine. ⁓ ⁓ that meant was I asked, I listened, and I acted. And that in and of itself bring psychological safety because people think at least she's open and she's wanting to do her best and all of that sort of stuff. So I think in this hybrid way of working it's you know what's one thing that we could start doing that would help you feel more connected or what's one thing that we could stop doing, whatever it might be and ask them you know and some people might not know on the spot so just give them a chance to have a think and to come back to you in a couple of days and I doubt that there'll be things that are so so outrageous that can't be implemented. But what that then does is you're building that safety, you're building that to stick you all together as a team, irrespective of how often you actually physically see one another.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's some good examples. I guess I think back to I ran some of my meetings ⁓ it very much a huddle kind of scrum focus quick five minute, five minute, not even five minutes, but what's going on, what's going on to the next meeting. And that isn't best way to get. know right things out there. There's a place for it if you're working tight on a deadline absolutely but you're right. psychological safety just coming back to your examples there starts with asking the small questions doesn't it? It doesn't need to be a grand unveiling of you are now psychologically safe. What do you need help with? on what do you think to this? What are the start stop examples? And I think that's
Jenny Ainsworth: Not a race, not a race. Ciao! Yeah, yeah.
Martin Wheatley: especially when teams are learning technology like AI at the minute, together I think that transparency openness, must be beneficial in the long run. It'll build a lot more trust and engagement as well.
Jenny Ainsworth: It definitely does. I think that the scale, the one to 10 scale, especially when everybody's sort of learning something like new tech or whatever, is really useful. So by that, you can say on a scale of one to 10, how confident are you at the moment in the use of this tool? One is, be any less 10 is super confident. And then around and you numbers. And this isn't about getting to 10. The next question you say, OK, right. So Jim, you're on three. So what's got you to three? What's working for you? So there's none of this, oh, you're not at 10, because that's shaming. And that's what makes people feel I can't say anything. But it's OK. So you're not on a one. You're not on a two. What's working there? Where is your confidence? OK. So, know, Jenny, you're on a six. So you're feeling a bit higher So what's got you to there? And then Jenny says, well, yeah, it's similar as Jim, but what else I've got is.
Martin Wheatley: Mm-hmm.
Jenny Ainsworth: And he started to share that knowledge. And then your killer question is, OK, what needs to happen for you to just move one step further up the scale? You're feeling a bit more confident. Jim says, well, you know, I need to know more about this. Bill says, I need to know more about that. Jenny says, I need to. And before you know it, there might be somebody that says, well, I can do that for you, Yeah, yeah, we'll do that afterwards and I'll help you with that. you notice that there's a theme where a lot of people are thinking, yeah, that would be really helpful actually. Okay, all right then, ⁓ meeting, let's all have a look at that together. ⁓ what you're doing is you're modeling vulnerability vulnerability in the true sense of the word is just feeling okay in saying, I'm not sure actually. ⁓ And rather thinking I'm gonna be embarrassed by that or shamed, it's like, is there... anywhere in the team we can pull on help you with that or is it a common theme in which case let's all do it together and that really works I think.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, yeah, no, it's fostering that engagement and collaborative approach, isn't it? Which I think needs to be even more mindful with the tools in place. Like I said, know, a lot of people are going to start managing agents and it could quite easily just be quite siloed, individually siloed.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, definitely.
Martin Wheatley: corporate structures where you've just got a lot of individual people doing a lot of individual tasks albeit more tasks than ever completed in the space of a day. just coming back to ⁓ engagement piece around because there's a great stat on your book about gallop engagement, the cost lack of engagement. think it was 8.8 trillion from ⁓ which is just, ⁓ know, I had to Google how many zeros are in a trillion ⁓ know just mind-boggling and that's probably gonna, I don't know, are the results out for this year yet? I'm sure that will probably go up anyway. ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, it's ridiculous. Hello? Yeah, absolutely, I'm sure,
Martin Wheatley: And I was just going to lead on to the connection that's in your book, the three essential connections that every employee needs. And it kind of follows on from what we were just saying in terms ⁓ of safety. do you want to just cover off what those three connections are?
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, definitely. So the first one in order for people to feel really connected work and able to be at their best, to do the best work, enjoy working, they need three sort of core connections. The first one is connection to colleagues. ⁓ And that's the obvious one. most organisations have definite an element of remote working. People aren't all in the same space all at the same time. So it's not about being best friends with people, but it's going back to that safety. It's feeling that even if I don't see you day to day, you've got my back and I've got yours. I'm not feeling wary of you. All these connections used to happen organically. You'd be waiting for a coffee, you'd be grabbing a sandwich, you'd have a quick chat and stuff like that. So it's about how can we be more intentional about creating that connection to our colleagues, the people know what makes you tick, know what your hot buttons are, all of that sort of stuff. Then there's connection to resources. Now, again, when you're in an office you're trying to find a bit of information, we can turn to somebody who's been here forever and say, Martin, am I being... Where's so-so? I am looking everywhere on this internet site or this C driver. I can't find it. And you can have that conversation or there's somebody who has been around, who's got all that knowledge up in the head. And it can be so infuriating as a... ⁓ person at work just trying to find the answer to something that should be really really simple so it's how can we make life easier for people to be connected to what they need resource-wise to be able to do the job well so what can we do to to signpost things and make it easier so they're not spending forever trying to find stuff. So there's that as well. And that's actually more difficult than you think because this is where it goes back to. If you are familiar with stuff, you stop seeing where the glitches are. And if you know where to find something, it doesn't cross your mind to think, if I was brand new. How obvious is it that this is on that drive or that's on there or do you know what mean? And so actually it's thinking how do we walk through this experience as somebody with brand new eyes to think how easy is it to actually do your job and know where things are? And then the last thing is connection to the organisation which is the culture, the values. Do I feel like I belong? Do I feel like I can make a difference? Do I love?
Martin Wheatley: Mm. Cool.
Jenny Ainsworth: what they're doing and how they're doing it and the direction of travel, you know, all of it. So it's not just a job. I feel proud and enjoy working for that company. And I think those three things are really important in helping somebody have a good day at work.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess it comes back to the kind of, you've got to engage all your different generations to help you get that, to help you form that, especially with the to resources piece. Like you said, you've got people with knowledge in their head, institutional knowledge has been there for some decades, you know, sometimes. And getting out of someone's head and technology help once it's out of someone's head because it can help, ⁓ especially now can just chat to your computer and it'll tell you an answer for, or...
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah. Yeah? Yes.
Martin Wheatley: pointing in the right direction, but you still got to engage that human to build that infrastructure, digital kind of data infrastructure in the background to do it. no, it's, yeah, absolutely. It's three key essentials, I would say definitely for it. How do you use AI day to day? No.
Jenny Ainsworth: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I at the moment I tend to use these two AI tools platforms that I use I use Claude and I use Manus I use Manus more for what's the word I'm looking for visuals yeah so all my visuals in my book they're all sort of line drawings very simple I use Manus for all of those
Martin Wheatley: Hmm. ⁓ yeah. Okay.
Jenny Ainsworth: I described what I wanted, the style I wanted and what I wanted it to reflect and Manners created those, which was great. So I was really pleased with that. And then I'm using Claude more for some of the day-to-day stuff. It might be ⁓ through some of my old work or old posts or even old manuals, leadership manuals and saying, can you pull out? some topics that I can talk on from there or some posts and things like that, that's good. And then finally perplexity, I use perplexity a lot just to double check my research and make sure that it was absolutely sound in the book, you know, and because I just didn't, I wanted it to be credible and I did not want anybody to come back and say, where's this reference from? And me thinking, do you know, I actually don't know or... Well, I saw it on the internet, so therefore it must be right, right? It's just making sure that it was absolutely sound in terms of research. So they're the three.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah. Okay yeah there's a good three base isn't it.
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: Yeah, Claude's the one I tend to use for the main workhouse alongside Microsoft But yeah, certainly the checking bit. Perplexity, yeah, I agree. It goes out and actually does a decent ⁓ sense check of all your data. And you know, interesting in the world that
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah.
Martin Wheatley: You can create content just at the drop of a hat. It's nice to know that you've written this book. It's your voice. It's your words. You've used the tools to support the research, but ultimately it's based on your experience and your so far. So that's been ⁓ fun. could talk about this all day. I love the whole element of how you can build engagement and ⁓
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Martin Wheatley: reinforced it continually reinforced and like you said like I've said sorry not always got it right in the past and it's continually learning and developing and know it's a fascinating topic especially when you look at the gallop numbers and you think wow this this much this is having this much economic impact there was always one question which I always found really on the I think it was the gallop survey was do you have a best friend at work I thought I don't know if I'd ever It's always a strange question is that to me do you have a best friend but I suppose it plays back to the The individual you know your co-workers and your colleagues been in that relationship space, but yeah, okay we shall move into the Second of the show where I am going to ask you for three three kind takeaways are three things that the the listener could Take away adopt put into practice. It could be a book
Jenny Ainsworth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does.
Martin Wheatley: your book could be a recommendation of an article, a TV program or anything that you think would be useful for them to take away based on the conversations we're having.
Jenny Ainsworth: Well, I have to get my book, get my book, get my book! ⁓ mother, you're keeping the fridge, ⁓ keeping the fridge full and the lights on people if you buy it!
Martin Wheatley: be disappointed if you haven't said that.
Jenny Ainsworth: Right, honestly, I was just talking with you, Martin just before we started recording. There's so many management books that I think, I really like the sound of that. And then I get in, think, ⁓ you know, it's like wading through treacle. And I just think, ⁓ just give me the exact summary. It's just too hard to wade through. I'm hoping is that this book is the complete opposite of that. I think it's something you can read from start to finish, but I also think it's something that you can just dip into and find the bits that are important to you, you know, and that are helpful. So love you to have a look. Kindle, it's also on paperback so you know do go and have a look at that, I think it's really well worth it as a ⁓ in AI space. In terms of other things, I hope what people have taken on board is, what I said a little bit earlier is this sense of If somebody said to you, are you open-minded? Most of us would say yes, but actually our behaviour betrays that. And what I'd say is, you know, wherever you are in your career and in your leadership career, your experience counts, it absolutely counts, and it's not gospel. So be that brilliant person who can still be open to new things coming in, new suggestions. Don't dismiss it out of hand. Even if deep down you think, know this won't work. It's like, just be a bit more open to and a bit more curious about asking a few more questions to see even if it can't fully work, can some of it work? It's that kind of thing, you know, it does have to be either or, it can be a sum. So just be open and recognise that everybody has got some value and some worth to bring and it's tapping into all of that brilliance. ⁓
Martin Wheatley: Amen. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Yeah, absolutely.
Jenny Ainsworth: What's the third one? What's the third one, Martin? the leader that you want to be, you know? Use good awareness about that ⁓ and about what's frustrated you with bosses in the past, being micromanaged, being told what to do when you think, I know what to do, you don't treat me as an idiot. ⁓ Or the other end of the scale, being left completely on your own where you think, He or she would have no idea what I'm managing in this situation because they just never ask. So be, ⁓ use tools that are there to free you up to be the boss that you would love to have had in your career. Be kind, be give people stretch, all the things that everybody needs in the workplace.
Martin Wheatley: Fantastic. They are three fantastic things. So I'll just summarize them because I think it's ⁓ repeating. Be the leader you want to be. Be the person who is open to feedback and buy the book because the book will help connect everything together. Absolutely. And you know, it's the book I wish I had when I was starting out because it does do that genuinely. that has been...
Jenny Ainsworth: Yep. Yes! Thank you.
Martin Wheatley: Fantastic conversation. Thank you very much. Where can people find you? Where can people reach out to you they want to work more with you?
Jenny Ainsworth: They can come either to my website, which is simple as jennyainsworth.com or come and find me on LinkedIn. And it literally is again, linkedin.com forward slash Jenny, forward, slaph, forward slash Jenny Ainsworth. Come and see me. If you've come via this, this pod, let me know. Cause it's always good to know that how, how, you know, all the connections work and all of that sort of stuff. That would be great.
Martin Wheatley: Mmm. Fantastic. Thank you very much. We will put all the links to Jenny, to her book, the page, to website and to a link to it on the show notes. So yeah, reach out to Jenny and thank you very much.
Jenny Ainsworth: Thank you.
