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I have a team that was supposed to do this stuff, but it was just easier for me to get it done.
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So true.
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You know, and I had a person I had promoted uh to a sales manager, and I kept doing my same old thing, right?
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And she she kind of came into my office one day and she's like, Why did you promote me?
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And I said, Oh, because you're doing a great job.
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You lead the team, you you know, you have all this initiative.
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Like she goes, then why are you doing my job?
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Yeah, point taken.
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Um, so whether you know how to do it or not is not the point.
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The point is you have a team, you have to trust your team, you put them in a position to be successful or not.
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And again, if you're not, really, you're not learning.
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And I learned that my role isn't to know how to do everyone's job, it's to support them.
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Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast brought to you by the All Red Group.
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I'm your host, Matt Allred.
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When talent is mission critical, call the All Red Group.
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With industry expertise, top talent, and exceptional customer service, you need the All-Red Group on your side.
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Your priority is our priority.
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Call now.
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404-890-0445.
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In this episode, I interviewed Jeff Pugh about his journey from being an elevator apprentice to becoming a vice president.
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We dove into his mindset transition from a worker to a leader, some of the tough decisions involved in maintaining a positive work culture, stepping out of one's comfort zone for personal and team growth, and Jeff's experience with turning around struggling branches.
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Jeff, welcome to the show.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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Thank you.
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I'm excited.
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I uh enjoyed our other conversations.
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I'm looking forward to to getting to know you a little bit better and obviously sharing some of your story with with our listeners.
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And um, so you've you've made a journey from apprentice to VP.
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What was it that made the elevator trade stick for you?
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Uh for me originally, it was the pay.
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It was uh it was a good job, it was good pay for not really knowing a lot about elevators.
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Uh, but as I grew into the position or as I grew into the industry, it's really the niche niche of the industry.
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There's only so many people that can actually do this.
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I love the opportunity that, you know, within a few short years, you were at your full pay potential uh as a mechanic.
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And the technical stuff really intrigued me.
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There's so many technological advances with these things, and you know, people really don't understand how these things work.
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You know, they push a button, they get in, it takes them where they want to go, but the the mechanics behind it are are extremely um detailed and very interesting to me.
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So yeah, there then there was lots of lots of places to go.
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I could move up.
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Um and and that's what really got me was that.
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Yeah, how how long before you that kind of clicked inside you when you're like, oh yeah, this is it.
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I would say it was probably uh in my second year um as an apprentice.
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The first year I'd missed the cutoff for the schooling, so it was just on the job training, which was fantastic.
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But then as I got into school uh and you know, it's a short um short year really, you know, from September to kind of May, and it's one week, sorry, one day per week.
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Right.
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Um yeah, I think that's what I was like, this is really neat.
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You know, I get to work, I get to learn.
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Um, I don't lose any time off work like they do with electricians and plumbers that have to go to school.
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And then I got that much more interested in the trade itself as I was building these elevators.
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Right, right.
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Well, and you mentioned a minute ago just kind of the niche nature nature of the trade and how it grabbed you and and obviously kind of applying the the schooling along with the the on the job.
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What was it about that apprenticeship model or maybe the field time that really shaped your growth the most?
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Well, I think for me, I I was very fortunate and I got to work with some really, really good mechanics.
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You know, they they not only mentored me um on the technical side, but they they really pushed me um, you know, to do better, to to be um a good union guy, but also to be a good company guy.
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Um it was it was that that really shaped me and and you know I really wanted to perform.
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I wanted to perform for them, I wanted to perform for the company.
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Um, you know, there's a thing that elevator guys have, or maybe a lot of people have, but when you're driving through a city and you see all these sky skyscrapers and towers, you're like, oh, I built that one, or I, you know, fixed that one or whatever.
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Um, so that was it was a it was a proud pride thing for me.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Well, I I'm and I and I'm aware of that.
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I'm having uh done a little bit of roofing in my college days, you know, drive past a house or a a building and hey, you know, I did those shingles, whatever the case may be.
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Yeah.
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Um, it's pretty neat.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You you mentioned uh, you know, that they kind of pushed you to become better.
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What what specifically did that look like?
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Because I yeah, I know that can go a lot of different ways, right?
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You you know, depending on who it is and and how they perform, but what do you find?
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What did you find most impactful for you?
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I think I think they gave me the opportunity.
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So as you're as you're going through constructing an elevator, there's obviously a whole bunch of different things that go into it.
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Um, but they gave me the opportunity where you know we would do one component together and the next one I would do kind of on my own.
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You know what I mean?
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So they really challenged me to learn learn the trade, learn um, you know, how things go.
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Of course, they were there to support me, and it was always safe.
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There was nothing ever uh you know unsafe.
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Um, but it was more just hey, okay, you've seen it once now or seen it twice, let's let's see what you can do.
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Um, so I think that was probably the biggest part of it.
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That's awesome.
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Well, and obviously they're believing in you, right?
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Showing you that that, hey, I've I've demonstrated I I believe you can do this, and here's your chance to to show me and and holler if you get stuck, right?
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I mean, yeah.
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Yeah, it's one of those things, um, you know, and I I tell this to all the young guys that come in the trade is you know, just keep an open mind, ask questions, be willing to learn.
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Um, I coach my son's hockey, and it's all about effort and attitude.
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You know, you show up with the right effort and you put in the attitude, uh, the right attitude, and you put in the effort, you're gonna be just fine.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So you talked about some of your your mentors, you know, certainly as an as an apprentice.
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What other I don't know, mentor influences did you have as you uh continued to move up through the organizations?
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Well, I again I I had so many different um positive influences in my life.
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I mean, you got to start from home.
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I had a really, really good upbringing.
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Both my parents worked very, very hard.
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You know, they instilled the the work ethic, they instilled, you know, the confidence to to not be afraid to fail.
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You know, I think that was you know really where where I learned all that.
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And you know, I wanted what they had.
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I wanted the nice house and stuff like that.
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And you know, I knew they had sacrifices, they they worked, you know, long hours.
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And you know, then when I got the opportunity to work with some some of these great mechanics um, you know, that were that were uh very well respected in the industry, uh I just took it and ran with it.
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You know, whether it was one of the old adjusters working on the 1960s, you know, relay logic stuff or you know, the adjuster that was working on the brand new technology, I just all in and and tried to learn as much as I could.
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Kind of hungry for you know, just teach me, right?
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I mean, that's I'm sure that's paid off many times over just your desire to learn.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, I think that's what it is.
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Is just I wanted more.
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I always wanted more.
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Um, you know, and of course I failed.
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You know, there were there were times where I was, you know, blowing up circuit boards because I, you know, made a mistake.
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And you know, it's it's like anything, you know, we get a new one, you put it back in, and you don't make the same mistake, right?
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Yep.
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Yep.
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You gotta, I mean, if you're anything like me, I'm right, I I I learned by doing the wrong thing.
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I learned to tie my shoes by tripping and landing on my face a few times.
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It's like, oh.
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I mean, if you're not uh if you're not feeling, you're not learning, right?
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And you know, I think the the bigger picture is not being afraid to fail.
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There's there are so many instances where people were like, I don't want to make a mistake.
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Well, you're you're not gonna grow as fast as you're gonna do that.
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You can't learn it.
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Yeah, you know, so it's okay to take a chance.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean, making a mistake is is part of the learning process.
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You can't can't learn otherwise.
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Um, so one one thing about you know growing, moving up, you know, is is a lot of people really seem to struggle with moving from doing the work to leading people to do the work.
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And what would you say was maybe the hardest part of that transition for you?
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I think for me, you know, to to be a leader, to be an effective leader, it's really about connecting.
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You know, I think what I bring to the table is a little bit different.
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You know, I don't have an MBA education.
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Um, I've got, you know, um a college background, you know, business management type thing.
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But I think for me it's I take those experiences that I learned from.
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I had some really good experiences and I apply them to what I do every day.
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I listen, I try and connect with the team, with the individual of the team.
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Um and for me it's about being consistent, you know.
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Right.
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I have a saying here, um, we don't accept mediocrity.
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If you want to be the best, you can't accept mediocrity.
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And so I try and instill that good behavior uh into my teams, into the leaders of the branches and to their leaders of the field, you know.
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Uh coming from the field, it gives me a different perspective, you know, than coming up on the sales side of things.
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So it's a different connection with the field, you know, we can actually talk the language.
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So I think that that helps as well.
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Yeah.
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Did you find it challenging to to move into a leadership role or or was it more just kind of a smooth, hey, we're just gonna connect and I'm gonna expect you to, you know, to perform?
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I mean, it sometimes it can be a lockword because maybe one week your peers, the next week you're the you're the foreman or you're the superintendent, and it's like, oh yeah, I think um, you know, again, it's all it's all for me was all in the experience and all in managing people.
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That was the hardest thing to learn.
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I it wasn't necessarily the job.
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Um going from you know, the field to the supervisor, I knew what those guys were doing.
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Um, you know, I knew the day-to-day stuff.
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Sure.
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Um, so it was easy to relate to those guys.
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Where it was challenging was like you said, going from, hey, we're having lunch today to now I'm your boss.
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That was a little challenging, you know, and you know, I would never make them do anything that I wouldn't do.
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Um, you know, I'd expect them to have their lunch and their coffee and whatever else.
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Um, but I think it was about being related, relatable to them and say, hey, listen, guys, we got a job to do.
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How we do it in every building is a little bit different.
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Uh I trusted them.
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I trust to do the right thing, you know, and support them.
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Really, that was that's the biggest thing is to support them.
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And, you know, I mean, going from, you know, the supervisor to the vice president was I think I'm answering a different question here, but that was uh the supervisor and district manager was the hardest transition.
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I I worked crazy hours to try and figure this thing out.
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I went from managing, you know, eight or nine mechanics that I understood their job to managing you know 20 people in the office, sales side, you know, operation side, um, trying to understand what a district manager is supposed to do from the numbers.
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Different skill set, right?
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I mean, you're you're going from kind of being you know, able to touch the work to no, you got to be two steps away from it just to just to see what's going on in your office.
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Absolutely.
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And, you know, when when as a supervisor, you know, I could jump on a job site with a guy and just get my hands dirty, let's do this.
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When you're when you're a district manager, it's trying to appease so many different people, so many different jobs, so many different things.
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You have the union you have to deal with, you have the operations, the sales, you have you know, my bosses, and and so on and so forth.
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Um, you know, so in some cases, you know, it got to a point where it was just easier for me to do the work.
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Um, you know, for example, like um, you know, if we're doing a sales meeting or whatever, I would go ahead and do all the updates and all that stuff.
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I have a team that was supposed to do this stuff, but it was just easier for me to get it done.
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It's that true.
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You know, and I had um I had a person I had promoted uh to a sales manager, and I kept doing my same old thing, right?
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And she she kind of came into my office one day and she's like, Why did you promote me?
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And I said, Oh, because you're doing a great job.
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You delete the team, you you know, you have all this initiative.
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I I I just I appreciate sport, blah, blah.
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She goes, then why are you doing my job?
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I'm like, yeah, point taken.
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So it went from a mindset change to hey, whether you know how to do it or not is not the point.
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The point is you have a team, you have to trust your team, you put them in the position to be successful or not.
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And again, back to the same concept if you're not feeling, you're not learning.
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Um, and I learned that my role isn't to know how to do everyone's job, it's to support them, you know.
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And I always say that you don't always have to have the answer.
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Yeah, but you have to be able to get it for them, you know what I mean?
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So I think that was the best explanation from going from a hands-on to a support function, because that's what it is.
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It's really a like a do-it to a support.
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Um, and then going from you know, that transition from district manager to vice president was a relatively easy one, very similar to the mechanic to supervisor.
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Okay.
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Right.
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So now supporting branch managers.
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And, you know, hey, I did this for eight years.
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I know exactly when they say, Hey, you know, I'm having this challenge, yes, I know exactly the challenge you're having.
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Um, and then the experience comes in where, hey, this is what I did in the past, it worked really well, or we create new processes or whatever the case is.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, and you talked about, you know, having to having to make mistakes, having, you know, that's where experience comes from, right?
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So when when they say, hey, you know, share, share some ideas or hey, I need some help, it's like, yeah, I um I tripped over this one too, right?
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And here's what what eventually worked, and now I have something to share.
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Absolutely.
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And but again, it's it's you know, at the same time, you know, you you want them to kind of go it on their own a little bit too.
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You want them to come in with a solution.
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You don't just want to say, oh yeah, this is the answer.
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You know what I mean?
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You know, no different than when you're you know you're sitting next to your son doing math and it's like, I know the answer, but you're gonna struggle, you're gonna get it.
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I'm just not gonna give you the answer.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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Um, unless of course it has to do with some sort of security or safety and whatnot, and then you know, it's all case by case, but typically it's you know, hey, how are we gonna get through this together?
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Yeah, I mean, as long as it's not, like you say, not dangerous and they're not in in peril, yeah, then then the struggle is is valuable.
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And and so yeah, stepping back, biting your tongue, that can be, I imagine, right, the the hardest thing.
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And and I know even, you know, just and in my small company, right?
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Sometimes have to just wait and see what they come up with.
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And sometimes it's so so creative, it's like, oh, I'm glad I didn't say anything because that's better than my idea.
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100%.
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I think that's exactly what it is.
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It's it gives them confidence, right?
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You're trying to build confidence on them.
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:12.639
And um, you know, if they come to you with a with a problem, it's right away, it's it's a conversation.
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:13.679
You know, what do you think?
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.360
How how do you think the best way to handle this?
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:21.519
You know, I already have my ideas, but like you said, you're taking away their creativity and their their thought process, right?
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:22.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:23.279
That's great.
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:33.600
Well, so uh in you know, in a previous conversation, you had shared uh what I thought was a powerful analogy, just that you know, toxic employees are like a cancer, either it spreads or you cut it out.
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.639
And uh to me, that's gotta be one of the hardest things of just becoming a leader.
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:39.279
Yeah.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:45.039
And so I'm curious, how do you assess when it's time to to make those difficult decisions?
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.320
Um, yeah, I mean, you want to talk about failing.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.720
Uh, you know, I've done this a couple of times.
00:15:50.879 --> 00:16:00.639
Um, and my you know, my nature typically is I'm I'm very forgiving and you know, I I wholeheartedly believe in second chances.
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:01.279
Sure.
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:22.960
Um, you know, I always for me it's um if there's a if there's a big decision to be made, and it could be whether uh regarding an employee, it could be um, you know, a business decision or whatever the case is, you know, there's the hamster wheel is going 100 miles an hour, and you know, if I can't lay my head at night and that thing shut off, then I know it's not the right answer or the right solution.
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:46.159
Um so you know, for me, when it comes to toxic or or you know cancerous people, I have let it go too long in in a couple of cases, and what it does really is it just brings down the whole branch, it brings down the whole business because you know, whether you want to, you know, bury your head in the sand, it's happening and everyone sees it's happening.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.440
And as a leader, if you don't do anything, then you're condoning it.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:52.240
Oh, for sure.
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.080
Yeah, you're responsible for it, essentially.
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.080
You're accepting that behavior.
00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:02.480
So you have these guys, these people that are just killing themselves for you, and then you have this other that aren't, you know.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.920
So really what happens is you can catch it pretty quickly.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:12.480
I can catch it pretty quickly now, but back in the day, it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to do their job, or I'm gonna have to do this, or someone else is gonna have to.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:21.200
And the ironic thing is when I acted on it, when I was able to sleep at night, um all of a sudden it was it was like spring.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:28.480
All the flowers are coming back, um, snow was melting, the dynamic of the branch and the business was fantastic.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.680
And all of a sudden there's hands out, hey, I got this, or oh, hey, I'll do this.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:53.279
And it created a completely different environment where everyone was there to to support, and it was like I said, it was just like a a huge weight lifted off everyone's shoulders, you know, and that's happened a couple of times, you know, and and when I came out here, uh it was pretty easy to see that there were same same things.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:57.440
So it didn't take long to act and and rebuild the team, you know.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.200
So how do you go about having some of those conversations?
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:05.839
I mean, let's say you walk into a new region and it's like especially having been through it a couple times, right?
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:10.319
It's like, okay, I can see that you know, maybe there's an issue around so-and-so.
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.160
How do you kind of wade into that to kind of start to assess?
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:21.599
Yeah, I mean, the I think the important thing is to have conversations because there's there's two sides to every story.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:27.839
And we're so we're so quick to jump on one side or another without actually getting all the details.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.359
So, you know, I I try and I try and assess everything on my own.
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.839
I I sit down, the one-on-ones, you know, hey, what's going really well, what's not going well.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:54.559
You know, at this point in my career, it's not hard to look at the numbers and you know get a pretty quick assessment, uh, whether it's compliance, whether it's you know, bottom line dollars, sales, or or whatever the case is, and you, you know, you you kind of target a couple of things, ask some questions, and and then make your assessment from there.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.680
I always believe, like I said, there's you set the clear expectations.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:58.720
Here are the expectations.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.839
You know, you get the buy-in.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.039
Do you agree or disagree?
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:02.319
Or hey, what do you think?
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:03.599
And then you go from there.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.400
And if the expectations aren't met, then you have to move on.
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:06.880
Yeah.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.799
You said that you uh kind of held on too long a time or two.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.519
My my question is, what is too long?
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.599
Is it is it more of a feeling of how it's affecting the office, or is it two months?
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:21.440
Or I'm just curious what what you kind of So it you know what?
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:22.960
It's um there's two things.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.839
One, it's the attitude, the attitude of your of your people.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:26.799
You know, you can tell.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.559
You can just walk around, you can tell people are just mopey or whatever.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.480
Um the telltales for me, sick days, you see people taking more and more sick days, which is a which is a big one.
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.519
You look at where's the performance, is there performance issues?
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:47.599
But yeah, I think that's the the biggest thing is just the the temperature of the of the branch or the business to really identify this.
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:54.960
So I guess to answer my own question a little bit, if if the temperature is is dropping rapidly, the the amount of time may be irrelevant, right?
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.319
Maybe you need to act quicker because it's so toxic.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:19:58.799
Okay.
00:19:59.119 --> 00:19:59.599
Absolutely.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:04.240
And and you one more thing I should I meant I failed to mention is is the attrition rates.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:09.519
If people are leaving, people typically don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, they leave environments.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:09.839
Right.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:18.079
And again, if you have a stagnant boss or leader that doesn't, I say boss, not a leader, because I think those two two titles are completely different.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:25.920
And I think if if they're not if they're not seeing change and they see the boss accepting the behavior, that's a that's a telltale sign as well.
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:27.279
Thank you.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.759
Thanks for digging into that a little bit more because uh yeah, that's insightful.
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:40.960
So um, you know, kind of back to uh, I guess on a bigger scale, you know, you lead a region that covers a massive geography, uh 400 people.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.759
What does culture look like at that scale?
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.359
Yeah, so it's about consistency, right?
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:52.480
And what I do here in Calgary is what they do in Edmonton, is what they do in Saskatchewan and Winnipeg.
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.119
You know, it's it starts from the top down, right?
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:02.319
And when I go visit the branches, the first thing we always talk about isn't about the profitability or the big sales.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.039
It's about, hey, everyone got home, everyone's getting home.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.000
That's all that matters.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.119
And you build a culture around safety and compliance.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.559
The rest will follow.
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:18.079
So when you're leading, you know, 300, 400 people, it's making sure that the leaders of those areas are towing the line, right?
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:21.279
And making sure that we're all in agreement with with how we're going.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.640
But that's that's the biggest thing.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.039
And and to be to be relevant, you know, I I have a thing I call the follow-up Fridays.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:31.839
And uh I will call one or two people that I haven't talked to in a while.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:39.039
So it could be a mechanic in Saskatchewan, which I did last week, um, or it could be you know a sales guy in Winnipeg.
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:40.400
Um, and it's just a phone call.
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.720
It's not an email, it's not a text, it's uh yeah, hey, check it in, what's going on?
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.640
And I think that you know helps with hey, you know what?
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.279
We all care for each other, um, everyone's listening.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:02.960
Wow, he took the time to pick up the call and give me a call, you know, and it helps me also get the temperature of the branch what's going well, what's not going well, um, and I get it from the Mechanics point of view, and I also get it from the office point of view.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.200
So I think that's the biggest thing.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:09.599
Uh I try and get out there myself to see everyone, you know, grab coffee with someone.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.319
It's it's really just staying relevant, to be honest with you.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:12.880
Yeah.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.400
Well, and you and you talked about, you know, when you go visit, you know, you're not just hammering the the financials.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.400
Obviously, the financials speak for themselves, right?
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.759
You get the reports, you get the spreadsheets, you have access to their to their system.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:25.039
You already know those answers.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.839
And yet I have been in companies in the past where, you know, let's go hammer those results.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:38.480
How do you think that would affect your people differently if two hours into your first meeting, that's all you say, and then it's like, oh, by the way, how are you doing?
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.039
Well, it it sets the tone.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.920
It sets the tone of and and it's clearly demonstrates the priorities.
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:46.160
Yeah.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.000
If your priorities are numbers, well, then it's numbers.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.920
And I promise you they're not going to be as good as they could if the priority was the people.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:59.839
You know, it's it's at the end of the day, the numbers are the numbers, but you need people to to execute, you need people to do the work.
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:05.599
And if they're engaged and content, then the numbers will come.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:06.720
Yeah.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:12.160
It's amazing to me how much how much better the numbers are when the people are happy, right?
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:17.039
When the when the team is cohesive, it's uh it's amazing.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.839
Yeah.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.440
That some people don't see it that way.
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:20.960
Oh, absolutely not.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.960
And and again, it's it's one of those things where, you know, pick up the phone.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:25.440
Yeah.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:26.079
Pick up the phone.
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.599
If someone calls you, pick up the phone.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.559
Um, you know, uh, I I I take great pride in that.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:37.119
My phone's always on, whether, you know, good or bad on vacation, you know, they call, hey, you know, I need to talk to you about something.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:37.759
Sure.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.480
You know, because you you can't let that stuff fester, right?
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:42.880
And you want to be approachable and available.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:43.519
Yeah.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:44.960
That's huge.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:52.400
Um, and you you also mentioned in the past, uh, you know, one of the leadership principles is that comfort equals stagnation.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:53.200
Yeah.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:24:01.440
How do you intentionally stretch yourself and and really help your team, you know, push your team or invite your team to do the same?
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:04.400
Well, it's kind of what we talked about before, right?
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.000
You know, it's enabling them to make decisions.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:24.799
It's by doing things that make you uncomfortable, you know, having those tough conversations, uh, whether it be with a customer, whether it be with a fellow employee, a mechanic, whatever the case is, you gotta get out of that comfort zone and and you you have to take a little more risk and do things that you wouldn't normally do.
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.400
And everyone knows that if you if you come to me with a problem, you better have a solution or a couple solutions.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.039
You know, there are cases where it's like, I have no idea what to do here.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.599
But in most cases, it's you get them thinking and I don't need an answer today.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:39.920
Go back home, you know, think about it, whatever.
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.920
But I think that's the biggest thing is just pushing people out of their comfort zone.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:49.680
Like I understand you're a salesperson, but hey, why don't you go do a site visit, you know, with an operations guy, or or vice versa.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.200
I think that's that's the biggest thing is just push them outside of their comfort zone.
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:53.759
Yeah.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:00.079
Well, uh what strikes me there is that you know, comfort zones exist because of fear, right?
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.880
It's like, oh, hey, I'm safe here, I'm not safe over there.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:14.000
But what I've heard you say is you've you've made it a safe place for people to get out of their comfort zone and an expectation that that not only are you gonna get out, but you're gonna be okay, right?
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:18.240
You're not the world's not gonna fall, you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna die.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.839
Let's let's challenge you to get beyond what you're comfortable with, yeah, and you're gonna learn something.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.200
Uh yeah, it's it's it's like every experience, right?
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.680
Be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.680
You know what I mean?
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:37.440
When yeah, and you know, when you have all these different experiences and you're like, wow, that's a that's a good one.
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.519
I'm really not too sure how to deal with that right now.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:47.119
Uh you write it down, you think about it, whatever, and you know that's that's the biggest thing is just being be comfortable being uncomfortable.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:48.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.680
Well, I and I think that if you allow the comfort zone to constrain you, it only goes one direction.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:59.279
That's to continue to shrink versus pushing beyond it, continually pushing beyond it.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:00.799
You're gonna you're gonna grow it, right?
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.000
You're gonna have a bigger, bigger comfort zone, bigger influence, bigger ability to to make a change.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:13.599
And it reminds me, you know, when you and I had talked before, you talked about taking over Ottawa and later Calgary and how change happened fast.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:17.599
And so I'm talking about uh discomfort and comfort zones.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.400
You know, what what do you believe are the essential steps to turning around a struggling branch?
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.200
And I'm sure a lot of it was outside your comfort zone.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:26.559
Well, absolutely.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:33.920
Uh Ottawa was different because born and raised, um, I knew a lot of the people really well.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:36.000
Obviously, the mechanics I knew very well.
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.839
Um, so it was a little bit different because there's a lot more personal ties.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:46.000
It was pushing myself uh as a district manager to form different relationships with everyone.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:53.119
You know, as a leader, now not a friend, you know, and you know, that line, it was very difficult in Ottawa to get across.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:07.920
I mean, and it took me longer than it did, let's say, in Calgary, but it that was the biggest thing was to understand, hey, listen, yes, we're so cordial, we're still, you know, acquaintances or whatever you want to, you know, the barbecues and all that stuff, that's gotta stop, you know, because it's gotta be equal.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:08.559
You know what I mean?
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:14.319
If they see a leader, a district manager went out for dinner with the same guys, it's it's a perception, right?
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:22.000
And uh, you know, when I came to Calgary, I knew I knew some of the people already because of diff different meetings and and whatnot.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.759
And they they knew who I was.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:28.160
Uh, I mean, I've been here 24 years, so I'm uh a fossil guy out.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:36.559
But uh so when I came here, it was, like I said, relatively easy to get in there, meet some people, coffees, what's good, what's not good.
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:40.240
Um, the numbers were not great uh at the time.
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:50.799
We had a couple of jobs that were not going well, you know, and then shortly thereafter we had a uh you know, good person leave, and it was pretty evident, pretty clear that there's had to be some some changes here.
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:51.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:02.160
I mean, if you uh start to see a good person step away, you know, it sounds like you were at least keyed into okay, this uh something's got to change because we can't afford that.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:05.039
There was dynamics here that just weren't great.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:10.240
Um, good people, really good people, smart people that cared, but the dynamic was not good.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.079
And, you know, it was okay, this has to stop.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.920
You know, like I came here later in the years and compliance was an issue.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.119
And, you know, at the time I was told, hey, listen, you don't understand the Western way, everything's fine.
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.839
Hey, okay, yeah, I'm I've been here five minutes, sure.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.720
No, you know, no problem.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.799
I look forward to learning the Western way.
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:33.440
And then I just said next year, we're not gonna be in the same position.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.119
Because if we're not compliant next year, well then this is a problem for me.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:38.799
We were not compliant again.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:45.759
And yeah, so I was like, and I, you know, again, coached the whole way through, come up with a game plan, processes.
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:50.480
So following year, made the change, made some moves, uh, rebuilt the team.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:57.279
People here that were just dying to flourish, you know, but they were being held back and and stagnant.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.720
You know, I'll recite one of my favorite books there is Good to Great.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.920
I'm driving the bus and I put the the right people in the right seats.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.279
You know, some had to go to the back of the bus, some moved to the front of the bus.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:08.960
Some had to get off the bus, probably.
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.680
And there was a couple that actually, yeah, they had to they had to get off.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.640
It was their stop.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:13.279
Yep.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.920
Yep.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:26.160
Well, and and it sounds like having the right people in the right seats and and the right people on the bus is is really critical to everything we're talking about, from leadership to performance to to making change.
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.799
Because if you don't have that, you get nothing, right?
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.759
You're trying to swim upstream and and losing ground.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:32.559
100%.
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:33.359
Yeah.
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:34.319
You have no chance.
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:35.359
You really have no chance.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:39.359
I mean, the business will run, but it was, you know, people get hurt.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:41.200
That that really bothered me.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.680
And, you know, I I again I come from the field, I come from that background, and there's no reason for it.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:46.799
There's no excuses.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:52.160
I I believe that while incidents are not 100% preventable, you cannot prevent every incident.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:56.240
There's accidents, they're pulled accidents for a reason, but I believe you can prevent an injury.
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:02.240
If you take the right steps, do the right planning, making sure you're not in the line of fire, you will be fine.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.279
And we've proven this, you know, we've proven this time and time again.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:11.359
And even some mechanics, they they had to get off the bus too because they didn't they just chose to work unsafe.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:14.720
And that I mean when you choose to do that, I have a problem with it, you know.
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:19.039
And I always argued that people are like, oh, I don't have time to do this, or I have time to that.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:28.559
Like you make the time, and I promise you, you plan your work and you work your plan, not only will it be safer and more compliant, we're gonna do better profit-wise.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:33.920
And sure now now we're one of the fastest growing, you know, year-over-year regions.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.200
Uh profitability.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.960
You've uh been two years now, incident-free, recordable free.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:48.960
And everyone's happy, and you know, the the company's moving in a direction at a very, very rapid pace, and the team is engaged and we're getting there.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:49.759
That's awesome.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.559
That's awesome.
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.079
It's almost like they couldn't couldn't see it, right?
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.559
Just believing that it's kind of a limiting belief, like, oh, I don't have time to be safe.
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:12.319
Okay, but if you start by prioritizing that, you'll find out that, hey, not only do you have time, you have less less downtime, you didn't you don't hurt anybody or yourself, or you know, and and then the time magically shows up.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.839
It it it does.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.599
And, you know, again, I I always use the analogy of people at home, right?
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:24.880
You're going to mount a TV on the wall and bring the TV down, and you know, you don't read the instructions, you don't need to do that.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.160
You know, you go upstairs and you grab a couple of things, you're like, oh, I forgot this, go back upstairs.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.680
Oh, I forgot that, go back up.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:35.200
And you know, now you're making now you're making like five or six trips.
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:35.599
Right.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:43.680
When when had you when you unloaded the TV, had you looked at everything you needed, you would have grabbed everything you needed, and it would have been one step.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:44.240
Yeah.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:51.759
Um, as it relates to safety, it it becomes a little bit more compounded because what if you forgot your harness?
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:54.480
And you're like, oh, I'm just gonna hop on this car real quick.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:56.480
That's when accidents happen, right?
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:04.559
You know, we have um and it's it's every it's everyday life, truthfully, uh, where we have this, you know, we diminish it, we diminish the risks, right?
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:12.480
And it's one of our one of our big things here where we've done this so many times that we don't even recognize the hazard.
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:13.119
Right.
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:22.240
And you know, how I how I explain that is there's times where we have to get other trades on top of the elevator to check sensors at the top of the hoistway.
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:31.200
Mechanic gets on there, we do our thing, you get the electrician on there, whoever, they're like, oh my god, you guys ride on these things, you know, and they're kind of wow, this is crazy.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:31.759
Right.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.079
But for us, it's just it's like eating a lunch, no problem.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:39.759
Yeah, it's just walking a tight rope and hey, we do it every day.
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.480
But to your point, I mean, in a fraction of a second, that could all change, right?
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:49.519
With one little misstep, one little, you know, like I say, forget the harness, you, you know, whatever.
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.240
And it's unforgiving.
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:52.640
Yeah.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:57.200
Well, um, Jeff, I got one more question for you, and I appreciate you being with me.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:59.279
And and uh, you know, this has been a lot of fun.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:11.680
The uh the final question, you know, as you look back across your career from handling tools, overseeing hundreds of people, what's one lesson you hope that the next generation of leaders hears loud and clear?
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.720
I think for me, if I had one, I would say don't be afraid to ask for help.
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:19.039
Don't be afraid to ask.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:26.880
I struggled with that a lot, you know, as I as an early manager, where I was afraid to ask for help because I didn't want people to think that I didn't know what I was doing.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.200
When the reality of that, I just created more stress for myself and my family and everything else, right?
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:38.799
You know, working 14, 16, 18-hour days to try and get through when I could have asked someone, hey, what do you think about this?
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:40.400
Or hey, do you know about this?
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:45.119
You know, and it would have saved me so much time and and anxiety and everything else.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:54.480
When I relate that back to my mechanic days, where you're on a job site trying to fix something, and you're like, well, someone else has must must have faced this, right?
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.240
And you and you and you call someone and they're like, oh yeah, it's it's this.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.319
Well, I just saved myself two or three hours.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.079
I saved a company two or three hours.
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.880
Um, I don't have to bang my head against the controller.
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:05.920
You know what I mean?
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:06.319
Yeah.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:07.279
And I could move on.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.599
So I think that would be the biggest thing, you know.
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:10.880
Don't be afraid to ask.
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:11.360
Yeah.
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.599
Let me ask you just a little bit more on that.
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.400
So as a leader, like you said, I'm afraid they won't, you know, think that I know what I'm doing.
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:19.920
Is it people on your team?
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:21.199
Is it higher-ups?
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.960
What was the hardest group of people to ask?
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:32.320
Um, when I first started as a district manager, I was really afraid about what people would think of me if I didn't have all the answers.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.920
I felt at the time that I needed to know everything right away.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:36.719
And I didn't.
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:37.519
I really didn't.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:43.920
And, you know, truthfully, all it did was, you know, I get created more problems for myself, stress-wise, and everything else.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.199
Um, but I took away the power for my people, my teammates.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:56.800
I mean, I I I know how I feel when you know I have a you know, executive call me and say, hey, Jeff, um, hey, how would you handle this situation or how would you handle this problem?
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:03.199
You instantly get that feel of, oh my god, they they need me, they they want, you know, and you feel inclusive, right?
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.239
Well, that's that's what I took away from my team initially.
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.039
And now it's it's the exact opposite.
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.400
Now I I I really push people, like I said, out of their comfort zone.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:13.440
And hey, what do you think?
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:14.719
How do you handle this?
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.719
So that's that's really what it was.
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.480
I was a it was a total perception thing.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:23.280
It was not even ego, it was more just I didn't want them to think that I didn't know what I was doing.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:23.599
Yeah.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.719
When the reality I really didn't know what I was doing when I first took it over.
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.960
Didn't want them to see in the truth, right?
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:30.880
It's it was so true.
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:32.880
Oh, that's awesome.
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:38.159
Thank you so much for for being with me today and and sharing your insights uh over your your career.
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:39.199
It's been a lot of fun.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:41.199
Oh, I appreciate the time and the opportunity.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:41.840
Yeah.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:48.960
Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:56.559
Please visit our YouTube channel at Elevator Careers or check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.079
Please like and subscribe.
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.480
And until next time, stay safe.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040
I have a team that was supposed to do this stuff, but it was just easier for me to get it done.
00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:04.000
So true.
00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:10.320
You know, and I had a person I had promoted uh to a sales manager, and I kept doing my same old thing, right?
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.880
And she she kind of came into my office one day and she's like, Why did you promote me?
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:16.800
And I said, Oh, because you're doing a great job.
00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:18.879
You lead the team, you you know, you have all this initiative.
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.280
Like she goes, then why are you doing my job?
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:25.600
Yeah, point taken.
00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.440
Um, so whether you know how to do it or not is not the point.
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:35.280
The point is you have a team, you have to trust your team, you put them in a position to be successful or not.
00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.880
And again, if you're not, really, you're not learning.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:45.439
And I learned that my role isn't to know how to do everyone's job, it's to support them.
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.320
Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast brought to you by the All Red Group.
00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:52.159
I'm your host, Matt Allred.
00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.000
When talent is mission critical, call the All Red Group.
00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:02.719
With industry expertise, top talent, and exceptional customer service, you need the All-Red Group on your side.
00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.799
Your priority is our priority.
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:05.519
Call now.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:09.599
404-890-0445.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:16.239
In this episode, I interviewed Jeff Pugh about his journey from being an elevator apprentice to becoming a vice president.
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:29.920
We dove into his mindset transition from a worker to a leader, some of the tough decisions involved in maintaining a positive work culture, stepping out of one's comfort zone for personal and team growth, and Jeff's experience with turning around struggling branches.
00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:31.760
Jeff, welcome to the show.
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.200
Thank you very much for having me.
00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:33.840
Thank you.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:34.719
I'm excited.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:37.200
I uh enjoyed our other conversations.
00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:43.120
I'm looking forward to to getting to know you a little bit better and obviously sharing some of your story with with our listeners.
00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:48.239
And um, so you've you've made a journey from apprentice to VP.
00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.680
What was it that made the elevator trade stick for you?
00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.200
Uh for me originally, it was the pay.
00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:00.480
It was uh it was a good job, it was good pay for not really knowing a lot about elevators.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:07.439
Uh, but as I grew into the position or as I grew into the industry, it's really the niche niche of the industry.
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:09.520
There's only so many people that can actually do this.
00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:16.800
I love the opportunity that, you know, within a few short years, you were at your full pay potential uh as a mechanic.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.520
And the technical stuff really intrigued me.
00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:26.319
There's so many technological advances with these things, and you know, people really don't understand how these things work.
00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:35.199
You know, they push a button, they get in, it takes them where they want to go, but the the mechanics behind it are are extremely um detailed and very interesting to me.
00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:37.599
So yeah, there then there was lots of lots of places to go.
00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:38.639
I could move up.
00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:42.800
Um and and that's what really got me was that.
00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:47.599
Yeah, how how long before you that kind of clicked inside you when you're like, oh yeah, this is it.
00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:54.639
I would say it was probably uh in my second year um as an apprentice.
00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:59.520
The first year I'd missed the cutoff for the schooling, so it was just on the job training, which was fantastic.
00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:09.919
But then as I got into school uh and you know, it's a short um short year really, you know, from September to kind of May, and it's one week, sorry, one day per week.
00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:10.400
Right.
00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.960
Um yeah, I think that's what I was like, this is really neat.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:17.280
You know, I get to work, I get to learn.
00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:22.479
Um, I don't lose any time off work like they do with electricians and plumbers that have to go to school.
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.719
And then I got that much more interested in the trade itself as I was building these elevators.
00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:27.520
Right, right.
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:38.159
Well, and you mentioned a minute ago just kind of the niche nature nature of the trade and how it grabbed you and and obviously kind of applying the the schooling along with the the on the job.
00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:44.560
What was it about that apprenticeship model or maybe the field time that really shaped your growth the most?
00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:50.800
Well, I think for me, I I was very fortunate and I got to work with some really, really good mechanics.
00:03:50.960 --> 00:04:03.840
You know, they they not only mentored me um on the technical side, but they they really pushed me um, you know, to do better, to to be um a good union guy, but also to be a good company guy.
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:10.639
Um it was it was that that really shaped me and and you know I really wanted to perform.
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:12.960
I wanted to perform for them, I wanted to perform for the company.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:25.199
Um, you know, there's a thing that elevator guys have, or maybe a lot of people have, but when you're driving through a city and you see all these sky skyscrapers and towers, you're like, oh, I built that one, or I, you know, fixed that one or whatever.
00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.959
Um, so that was it was a it was a proud pride thing for me.
00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:30.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.720
Well, I I'm and I and I'm aware of that.
00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:43.600
I'm having uh done a little bit of roofing in my college days, you know, drive past a house or a a building and hey, you know, I did those shingles, whatever the case may be.
00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:44.160
Yeah.
00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:45.600
Um, it's pretty neat.
00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:46.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.399
You you mentioned uh, you know, that they kind of pushed you to become better.
00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:52.639
What what specifically did that look like?
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:55.759
Because I yeah, I know that can go a lot of different ways, right?
00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:00.879
You you know, depending on who it is and and how they perform, but what do you find?
00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:02.480
What did you find most impactful for you?
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.720
I think I think they gave me the opportunity.
00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:10.319
So as you're as you're going through constructing an elevator, there's obviously a whole bunch of different things that go into it.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:16.959
Um, but they gave me the opportunity where you know we would do one component together and the next one I would do kind of on my own.
00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:17.680
You know what I mean?
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:23.680
So they really challenged me to learn learn the trade, learn um, you know, how things go.
00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:26.079
Of course, they were there to support me, and it was always safe.
00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.399
There was nothing ever uh you know unsafe.
00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:33.759
Um, but it was more just hey, okay, you've seen it once now or seen it twice, let's let's see what you can do.
00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.000
Um, so I think that was probably the biggest part of it.
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:36.720
That's awesome.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.279
Well, and obviously they're believing in you, right?
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:47.279
Showing you that that, hey, I've I've demonstrated I I believe you can do this, and here's your chance to to show me and and holler if you get stuck, right?
00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:48.560
I mean, yeah.
00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:59.279
Yeah, it's one of those things, um, you know, and I I tell this to all the young guys that come in the trade is you know, just keep an open mind, ask questions, be willing to learn.
00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:02.560
Um, I coach my son's hockey, and it's all about effort and attitude.
00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:09.279
You know, you show up with the right effort and you put in the attitude, uh, the right attitude, and you put in the effort, you're gonna be just fine.
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:10.560
Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.040
Absolutely.
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.639
So you talked about some of your your mentors, you know, certainly as an as an apprentice.
00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:21.439
What other I don't know, mentor influences did you have as you uh continued to move up through the organizations?
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:27.199
Well, I again I I had so many different um positive influences in my life.
00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:28.560
I mean, you got to start from home.
00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:30.639
I had a really, really good upbringing.
00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:32.240
Both my parents worked very, very hard.
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:39.439
You know, they instilled the the work ethic, they instilled, you know, the confidence to to not be afraid to fail.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.120
You know, I think that was you know really where where I learned all that.
00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:44.319
And you know, I wanted what they had.
00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.480
I wanted the nice house and stuff like that.
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.560
And you know, I knew they had sacrifices, they they worked, you know, long hours.
00:06:50.720 --> 00:07:02.480
And you know, then when I got the opportunity to work with some some of these great mechanics um, you know, that were that were uh very well respected in the industry, uh I just took it and ran with it.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:15.279
You know, whether it was one of the old adjusters working on the 1960s, you know, relay logic stuff or you know, the adjuster that was working on the brand new technology, I just all in and and tried to learn as much as I could.
00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.920
Kind of hungry for you know, just teach me, right?
00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:22.000
I mean, that's I'm sure that's paid off many times over just your desire to learn.
00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:22.800
Absolutely.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.000
Yeah, I think that's what it is.
00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.079
Is just I wanted more.
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:27.279
I always wanted more.
00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:29.920
Um, you know, and of course I failed.
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:35.040
You know, there were there were times where I was, you know, blowing up circuit boards because I, you know, made a mistake.
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:41.199
And you know, it's it's like anything, you know, we get a new one, you put it back in, and you don't make the same mistake, right?
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:41.759
Yep.
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:42.160
Yep.
00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.920
You gotta, I mean, if you're anything like me, I'm right, I I I learned by doing the wrong thing.
00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.759
I learned to tie my shoes by tripping and landing on my face a few times.
00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:50.560
It's like, oh.
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.000
I mean, if you're not uh if you're not feeling, you're not learning, right?
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:58.480
And you know, I think the the bigger picture is not being afraid to fail.
00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:02.160
There's there are so many instances where people were like, I don't want to make a mistake.
00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.639
Well, you're you're not gonna grow as fast as you're gonna do that.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:05.360
You can't learn it.
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.920
Yeah, you know, so it's okay to take a chance.
00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:08.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.279
I mean, making a mistake is is part of the learning process.
00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.199
You can't can't learn otherwise.
00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:24.160
Um, so one one thing about you know growing, moving up, you know, is is a lot of people really seem to struggle with moving from doing the work to leading people to do the work.
00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:28.319
And what would you say was maybe the hardest part of that transition for you?
00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:35.679
I think for me, you know, to to be a leader, to be an effective leader, it's really about connecting.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:40.080
You know, I think what I bring to the table is a little bit different.
00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:42.159
You know, I don't have an MBA education.
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:48.080
Um, I've got, you know, um a college background, you know, business management type thing.
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:53.120
But I think for me it's I take those experiences that I learned from.
00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:56.480
I had some really good experiences and I apply them to what I do every day.
00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:00.879
I listen, I try and connect with the team, with the individual of the team.
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.039
Um and for me it's about being consistent, you know.
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:05.600
Right.
00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.600
I have a saying here, um, we don't accept mediocrity.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.159
If you want to be the best, you can't accept mediocrity.
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:20.159
And so I try and instill that good behavior uh into my teams, into the leaders of the branches and to their leaders of the field, you know.
00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:25.919
Uh coming from the field, it gives me a different perspective, you know, than coming up on the sales side of things.
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.240
So it's a different connection with the field, you know, we can actually talk the language.
00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:32.480
So I think that that helps as well.
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:33.039
Yeah.
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:44.720
Did you find it challenging to to move into a leadership role or or was it more just kind of a smooth, hey, we're just gonna connect and I'm gonna expect you to, you know, to perform?
00:09:44.879 --> 00:10:02.720
I mean, it sometimes it can be a lockword because maybe one week your peers, the next week you're the you're the foreman or you're the superintendent, and it's like, oh yeah, I think um, you know, again, it's all it's all for me was all in the experience and all in managing people.
00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:04.320
That was the hardest thing to learn.
00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:06.240
I it wasn't necessarily the job.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:13.360
Um going from you know, the field to the supervisor, I knew what those guys were doing.
00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.440
Um, you know, I knew the day-to-day stuff.
00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:18.000
Sure.
00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.240
Um, so it was easy to relate to those guys.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:26.879
Where it was challenging was like you said, going from, hey, we're having lunch today to now I'm your boss.
00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:32.320
That was a little challenging, you know, and you know, I would never make them do anything that I wouldn't do.
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:36.320
Um, you know, I'd expect them to have their lunch and their coffee and whatever else.
00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:42.639
Um, but I think it was about being related, relatable to them and say, hey, listen, guys, we got a job to do.
00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.440
How we do it in every building is a little bit different.
00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:46.720
Uh I trusted them.
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.120
I trust to do the right thing, you know, and support them.
00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:52.080
Really, that was that's the biggest thing is to support them.
00:10:52.159 --> 00:11:02.000
And, you know, I mean, going from, you know, the supervisor to the vice president was I think I'm answering a different question here, but that was uh the supervisor and district manager was the hardest transition.
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.840
I I worked crazy hours to try and figure this thing out.
00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:18.799
I went from managing, you know, eight or nine mechanics that I understood their job to managing you know 20 people in the office, sales side, you know, operation side, um, trying to understand what a district manager is supposed to do from the numbers.
00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:20.320
Different skill set, right?
00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:29.120
I mean, you're you're going from kind of being you know, able to touch the work to no, you got to be two steps away from it just to just to see what's going on in your office.
00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:30.159
Absolutely.
00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:37.440
And, you know, when when as a supervisor, you know, I could jump on a job site with a guy and just get my hands dirty, let's do this.
00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:44.720
When you're when you're a district manager, it's trying to appease so many different people, so many different jobs, so many different things.
00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:51.039
You have the union you have to deal with, you have the operations, the sales, you have you know, my bosses, and and so on and so forth.
00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:57.679
Um, you know, so in some cases, you know, it got to a point where it was just easier for me to do the work.
00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:06.320
Um, you know, for example, like um, you know, if we're doing a sales meeting or whatever, I would go ahead and do all the updates and all that stuff.
00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:09.360
I have a team that was supposed to do this stuff, but it was just easier for me to get it done.
00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:10.639
It's that true.
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:18.320
You know, and I had um I had a person I had promoted uh to a sales manager, and I kept doing my same old thing, right?
00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:22.879
And she she kind of came into my office one day and she's like, Why did you promote me?
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:24.799
And I said, Oh, because you're doing a great job.
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.120
You delete the team, you you know, you have all this initiative.
00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.279
I I I just I appreciate sport, blah, blah.
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.039
She goes, then why are you doing my job?
00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:35.519
I'm like, yeah, point taken.
00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:42.559
So it went from a mindset change to hey, whether you know how to do it or not is not the point.
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:48.320
The point is you have a team, you have to trust your team, you put them in the position to be successful or not.
00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:52.879
And again, back to the same concept if you're not feeling, you're not learning.
00:12:53.039 --> 00:13:00.080
Um, and I learned that my role isn't to know how to do everyone's job, it's to support them, you know.
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.759
And I always say that you don't always have to have the answer.
00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.759
Yeah, but you have to be able to get it for them, you know what I mean?
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:15.039
So I think that was the best explanation from going from a hands-on to a support function, because that's what it is.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.360
It's really a like a do-it to a support.
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:27.440
Um, and then going from you know, that transition from district manager to vice president was a relatively easy one, very similar to the mechanic to supervisor.
00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:27.840
Okay.
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:28.080
Right.
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.919
So now supporting branch managers.
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.759
And, you know, hey, I did this for eight years.
00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:38.399
I know exactly when they say, Hey, you know, I'm having this challenge, yes, I know exactly the challenge you're having.
00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:46.080
Um, and then the experience comes in where, hey, this is what I did in the past, it worked really well, or we create new processes or whatever the case is.
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:46.879
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:52.159
Well, and you talked about, you know, having to having to make mistakes, having, you know, that's where experience comes from, right?
00:13:52.240 --> 00:14:00.080
So when when they say, hey, you know, share, share some ideas or hey, I need some help, it's like, yeah, I um I tripped over this one too, right?
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.120
And here's what what eventually worked, and now I have something to share.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.000
Absolutely.
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:12.080
And but again, it's it's you know, at the same time, you know, you you want them to kind of go it on their own a little bit too.
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.080
You want them to come in with a solution.
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.720
You don't just want to say, oh yeah, this is the answer.
00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:17.679
You know what I mean?
00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:23.840
You know, no different than when you're you know you're sitting next to your son doing math and it's like, I know the answer, but you're gonna struggle, you're gonna get it.
00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:25.120
I'm just not gonna give you the answer.
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:25.919
You know what I mean?
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:26.240
Yeah.
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:35.360
Um, unless of course it has to do with some sort of security or safety and whatnot, and then you know, it's all case by case, but typically it's you know, hey, how are we gonna get through this together?
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:42.960
Yeah, I mean, as long as it's not, like you say, not dangerous and they're not in in peril, yeah, then then the struggle is is valuable.
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:49.360
And and so yeah, stepping back, biting your tongue, that can be, I imagine, right, the the hardest thing.
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.679
And and I know even, you know, just and in my small company, right?
00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.879
Sometimes have to just wait and see what they come up with.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.200
And sometimes it's so so creative, it's like, oh, I'm glad I didn't say anything because that's better than my idea.
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:01.840
100%.
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:03.360
I think that's exactly what it is.
00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.360
It's it gives them confidence, right?
00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.200
You're trying to build confidence on them.
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:12.639
And um, you know, if they come to you with a with a problem, it's right away, it's it's a conversation.
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:13.679
You know, what do you think?
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.360
How how do you think the best way to handle this?
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:21.519
You know, I already have my ideas, but like you said, you're taking away their creativity and their their thought process, right?
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:22.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:23.279
That's great.
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:33.600
Well, so uh in you know, in a previous conversation, you had shared uh what I thought was a powerful analogy, just that you know, toxic employees are like a cancer, either it spreads or you cut it out.
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.639
And uh to me, that's gotta be one of the hardest things of just becoming a leader.
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:39.279
Yeah.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:45.039
And so I'm curious, how do you assess when it's time to to make those difficult decisions?
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.320
Um, yeah, I mean, you want to talk about failing.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.720
Uh, you know, I've done this a couple of times.
00:15:50.879 --> 00:16:00.639
Um, and my you know, my nature typically is I'm I'm very forgiving and you know, I I wholeheartedly believe in second chances.
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:01.279
Sure.
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:22.960
Um, you know, I always for me it's um if there's a if there's a big decision to be made, and it could be whether uh regarding an employee, it could be um, you know, a business decision or whatever the case is, you know, there's the hamster wheel is going 100 miles an hour, and you know, if I can't lay my head at night and that thing shut off, then I know it's not the right answer or the right solution.
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:46.159
Um so you know, for me, when it comes to toxic or or you know cancerous people, I have let it go too long in in a couple of cases, and what it does really is it just brings down the whole branch, it brings down the whole business because you know, whether you want to, you know, bury your head in the sand, it's happening and everyone sees it's happening.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.440
And as a leader, if you don't do anything, then you're condoning it.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:52.240
Oh, for sure.
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.080
Yeah, you're responsible for it, essentially.
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.080
You're accepting that behavior.
00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:02.480
So you have these guys, these people that are just killing themselves for you, and then you have this other that aren't, you know.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.920
So really what happens is you can catch it pretty quickly.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:12.480
I can catch it pretty quickly now, but back in the day, it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to do their job, or I'm gonna have to do this, or someone else is gonna have to.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:21.200
And the ironic thing is when I acted on it, when I was able to sleep at night, um all of a sudden it was it was like spring.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:28.480
All the flowers are coming back, um, snow was melting, the dynamic of the branch and the business was fantastic.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.680
And all of a sudden there's hands out, hey, I got this, or oh, hey, I'll do this.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:53.279
And it created a completely different environment where everyone was there to to support, and it was like I said, it was just like a a huge weight lifted off everyone's shoulders, you know, and that's happened a couple of times, you know, and and when I came out here, uh it was pretty easy to see that there were same same things.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:57.440
So it didn't take long to act and and rebuild the team, you know.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.200
So how do you go about having some of those conversations?
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:05.839
I mean, let's say you walk into a new region and it's like especially having been through it a couple times, right?
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:10.319
It's like, okay, I can see that you know, maybe there's an issue around so-and-so.
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.160
How do you kind of wade into that to kind of start to assess?
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:21.599
Yeah, I mean, the I think the important thing is to have conversations because there's there's two sides to every story.
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:27.839
And we're so we're so quick to jump on one side or another without actually getting all the details.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.359
So, you know, I I try and I try and assess everything on my own.
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.839
I I sit down, the one-on-ones, you know, hey, what's going really well, what's not going well.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:54.559
You know, at this point in my career, it's not hard to look at the numbers and you know get a pretty quick assessment, uh, whether it's compliance, whether it's you know, bottom line dollars, sales, or or whatever the case is, and you, you know, you you kind of target a couple of things, ask some questions, and and then make your assessment from there.
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.680
I always believe, like I said, there's you set the clear expectations.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:58.720
Here are the expectations.
00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.839
You know, you get the buy-in.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.039
Do you agree or disagree?
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:02.319
Or hey, what do you think?
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:03.599
And then you go from there.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.400
And if the expectations aren't met, then you have to move on.
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:06.880
Yeah.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.799
You said that you uh kind of held on too long a time or two.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.519
My my question is, what is too long?
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.599
Is it is it more of a feeling of how it's affecting the office, or is it two months?
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:21.440
Or I'm just curious what what you kind of So it you know what?
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:22.960
It's um there's two things.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.839
One, it's the attitude, the attitude of your of your people.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:26.799
You know, you can tell.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.559
You can just walk around, you can tell people are just mopey or whatever.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.480
Um the telltales for me, sick days, you see people taking more and more sick days, which is a which is a big one.
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.519
You look at where's the performance, is there performance issues?
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:47.599
But yeah, I think that's the the biggest thing is just the the temperature of the of the branch or the business to really identify this.
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:54.960
So I guess to answer my own question a little bit, if if the temperature is is dropping rapidly, the the amount of time may be irrelevant, right?
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.319
Maybe you need to act quicker because it's so toxic.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:19:58.799
Okay.
00:19:59.119 --> 00:19:59.599
Absolutely.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:04.240
And and you one more thing I should I meant I failed to mention is is the attrition rates.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:09.519
If people are leaving, people typically don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, they leave environments.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:09.839
Right.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:18.079
And again, if you have a stagnant boss or leader that doesn't, I say boss, not a leader, because I think those two two titles are completely different.
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:25.920
And I think if if they're not if they're not seeing change and they see the boss accepting the behavior, that's a that's a telltale sign as well.
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:27.279
Thank you.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.759
Thanks for digging into that a little bit more because uh yeah, that's insightful.
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:40.960
So um, you know, kind of back to uh, I guess on a bigger scale, you know, you lead a region that covers a massive geography, uh 400 people.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.759
What does culture look like at that scale?
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.359
Yeah, so it's about consistency, right?
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:52.480
And what I do here in Calgary is what they do in Edmonton, is what they do in Saskatchewan and Winnipeg.
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.119
You know, it's it starts from the top down, right?
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:02.319
And when I go visit the branches, the first thing we always talk about isn't about the profitability or the big sales.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.039
It's about, hey, everyone got home, everyone's getting home.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.000
That's all that matters.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.119
And you build a culture around safety and compliance.
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.559
The rest will follow.
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:18.079
So when you're leading, you know, 300, 400 people, it's making sure that the leaders of those areas are towing the line, right?
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:21.279
And making sure that we're all in agreement with with how we're going.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.640
But that's that's the biggest thing.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.039
And and to be to be relevant, you know, I I have a thing I call the follow-up Fridays.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:31.839
And uh I will call one or two people that I haven't talked to in a while.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:39.039
So it could be a mechanic in Saskatchewan, which I did last week, um, or it could be you know a sales guy in Winnipeg.
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:40.400
Um, and it's just a phone call.
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.720
It's not an email, it's not a text, it's uh yeah, hey, check it in, what's going on?
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.640
And I think that you know helps with hey, you know what?
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.279
We all care for each other, um, everyone's listening.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:02.960
Wow, he took the time to pick up the call and give me a call, you know, and it helps me also get the temperature of the branch what's going well, what's not going well, um, and I get it from the Mechanics point of view, and I also get it from the office point of view.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.200
So I think that's the biggest thing.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:09.599
Uh I try and get out there myself to see everyone, you know, grab coffee with someone.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.319
It's it's really just staying relevant, to be honest with you.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:12.880
Yeah.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.400
Well, and you and you talked about, you know, when you go visit, you know, you're not just hammering the the financials.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.400
Obviously, the financials speak for themselves, right?
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.759
You get the reports, you get the spreadsheets, you have access to their to their system.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:25.039
You already know those answers.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.839
And yet I have been in companies in the past where, you know, let's go hammer those results.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:38.480
How do you think that would affect your people differently if two hours into your first meeting, that's all you say, and then it's like, oh, by the way, how are you doing?
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.039
Well, it it sets the tone.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.920
It sets the tone of and and it's clearly demonstrates the priorities.
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:46.160
Yeah.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.000
If your priorities are numbers, well, then it's numbers.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.920
And I promise you they're not going to be as good as they could if the priority was the people.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:59.839
You know, it's it's at the end of the day, the numbers are the numbers, but you need people to to execute, you need people to do the work.
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:05.599
And if they're engaged and content, then the numbers will come.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:06.720
Yeah.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:12.160
It's amazing to me how much how much better the numbers are when the people are happy, right?
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:17.039
When the when the team is cohesive, it's uh it's amazing.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.839
Yeah.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.440
That some people don't see it that way.
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:20.960
Oh, absolutely not.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.960
And and again, it's it's one of those things where, you know, pick up the phone.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:25.440
Yeah.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:26.079
Pick up the phone.
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.599
If someone calls you, pick up the phone.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.559
Um, you know, uh, I I I take great pride in that.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:37.119
My phone's always on, whether, you know, good or bad on vacation, you know, they call, hey, you know, I need to talk to you about something.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:37.759
Sure.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.480
You know, because you you can't let that stuff fester, right?
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:42.880
And you want to be approachable and available.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:43.519
Yeah.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:44.960
That's huge.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:52.400
Um, and you you also mentioned in the past, uh, you know, one of the leadership principles is that comfort equals stagnation.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:53.200
Yeah.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:24:01.440
How do you intentionally stretch yourself and and really help your team, you know, push your team or invite your team to do the same?
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:04.400
Well, it's kind of what we talked about before, right?
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.000
You know, it's enabling them to make decisions.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:24.799
It's by doing things that make you uncomfortable, you know, having those tough conversations, uh, whether it be with a customer, whether it be with a fellow employee, a mechanic, whatever the case is, you gotta get out of that comfort zone and and you you have to take a little more risk and do things that you wouldn't normally do.
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.400
And everyone knows that if you if you come to me with a problem, you better have a solution or a couple solutions.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.039
You know, there are cases where it's like, I have no idea what to do here.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.599
But in most cases, it's you get them thinking and I don't need an answer today.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:39.920
Go back home, you know, think about it, whatever.
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.920
But I think that's the biggest thing is just pushing people out of their comfort zone.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:49.680
Like I understand you're a salesperson, but hey, why don't you go do a site visit, you know, with an operations guy, or or vice versa.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.200
I think that's that's the biggest thing is just push them outside of their comfort zone.
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:53.759
Yeah.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:00.079
Well, uh what strikes me there is that you know, comfort zones exist because of fear, right?
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.880
It's like, oh, hey, I'm safe here, I'm not safe over there.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:14.000
But what I've heard you say is you've you've made it a safe place for people to get out of their comfort zone and an expectation that that not only are you gonna get out, but you're gonna be okay, right?
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:18.240
You're not the world's not gonna fall, you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna die.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.839
Let's let's challenge you to get beyond what you're comfortable with, yeah, and you're gonna learn something.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.200
Uh yeah, it's it's it's like every experience, right?
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.680
Be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.680
You know what I mean?
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:37.440
When yeah, and you know, when you have all these different experiences and you're like, wow, that's a that's a good one.
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.519
I'm really not too sure how to deal with that right now.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:47.119
Uh you write it down, you think about it, whatever, and you know that's that's the biggest thing is just being be comfortable being uncomfortable.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:48.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.680
Well, I and I think that if you allow the comfort zone to constrain you, it only goes one direction.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:59.279
That's to continue to shrink versus pushing beyond it, continually pushing beyond it.
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:00.799
You're gonna you're gonna grow it, right?
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.000
You're gonna have a bigger, bigger comfort zone, bigger influence, bigger ability to to make a change.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:13.599
And it reminds me, you know, when you and I had talked before, you talked about taking over Ottawa and later Calgary and how change happened fast.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:17.599
And so I'm talking about uh discomfort and comfort zones.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.400
You know, what what do you believe are the essential steps to turning around a struggling branch?
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.200
And I'm sure a lot of it was outside your comfort zone.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:26.559
Well, absolutely.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:33.920
Uh Ottawa was different because born and raised, um, I knew a lot of the people really well.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:36.000
Obviously, the mechanics I knew very well.
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.839
Um, so it was a little bit different because there's a lot more personal ties.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:46.000
It was pushing myself uh as a district manager to form different relationships with everyone.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:53.119
You know, as a leader, now not a friend, you know, and you know, that line, it was very difficult in Ottawa to get across.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:07.920
I mean, and it took me longer than it did, let's say, in Calgary, but it that was the biggest thing was to understand, hey, listen, yes, we're so cordial, we're still, you know, acquaintances or whatever you want to, you know, the barbecues and all that stuff, that's gotta stop, you know, because it's gotta be equal.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:08.559
You know what I mean?
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:14.319
If they see a leader, a district manager went out for dinner with the same guys, it's it's a perception, right?
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:22.000
And uh, you know, when I came to Calgary, I knew I knew some of the people already because of diff different meetings and and whatnot.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.759
And they they knew who I was.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:28.160
Uh, I mean, I've been here 24 years, so I'm uh a fossil guy out.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:36.559
But uh so when I came here, it was, like I said, relatively easy to get in there, meet some people, coffees, what's good, what's not good.
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:40.240
Um, the numbers were not great uh at the time.
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:50.799
We had a couple of jobs that were not going well, you know, and then shortly thereafter we had a uh you know, good person leave, and it was pretty evident, pretty clear that there's had to be some some changes here.
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:51.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:02.160
I mean, if you uh start to see a good person step away, you know, it sounds like you were at least keyed into okay, this uh something's got to change because we can't afford that.
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:05.039
There was dynamics here that just weren't great.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:10.240
Um, good people, really good people, smart people that cared, but the dynamic was not good.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.079
And, you know, it was okay, this has to stop.
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.920
You know, like I came here later in the years and compliance was an issue.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.119
And, you know, at the time I was told, hey, listen, you don't understand the Western way, everything's fine.
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.839
Hey, okay, yeah, I'm I've been here five minutes, sure.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.720
No, you know, no problem.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.799
I look forward to learning the Western way.
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:33.440
And then I just said next year, we're not gonna be in the same position.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.119
Because if we're not compliant next year, well then this is a problem for me.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:38.799
We were not compliant again.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:45.759
And yeah, so I was like, and I, you know, again, coached the whole way through, come up with a game plan, processes.
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:50.480
So following year, made the change, made some moves, uh, rebuilt the team.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:57.279
People here that were just dying to flourish, you know, but they were being held back and and stagnant.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.720
You know, I'll recite one of my favorite books there is Good to Great.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.920
I'm driving the bus and I put the the right people in the right seats.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.279
You know, some had to go to the back of the bus, some moved to the front of the bus.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:08.960
Some had to get off the bus, probably.
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.680
And there was a couple that actually, yeah, they had to they had to get off.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.640
It was their stop.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:13.279
Yep.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.920
Yep.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:26.160
Well, and and it sounds like having the right people in the right seats and and the right people on the bus is is really critical to everything we're talking about, from leadership to performance to to making change.
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.799
Because if you don't have that, you get nothing, right?
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.759
You're trying to swim upstream and and losing ground.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:32.559
100%.
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:33.359
Yeah.
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:34.319
You have no chance.
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:35.359
You really have no chance.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:39.359
I mean, the business will run, but it was, you know, people get hurt.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:41.200
That that really bothered me.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.680
And, you know, I I again I come from the field, I come from that background, and there's no reason for it.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:46.799
There's no excuses.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:52.160
I I believe that while incidents are not 100% preventable, you cannot prevent every incident.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:56.240
There's accidents, they're pulled accidents for a reason, but I believe you can prevent an injury.
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:02.240
If you take the right steps, do the right planning, making sure you're not in the line of fire, you will be fine.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.279
And we've proven this, you know, we've proven this time and time again.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:11.359
And even some mechanics, they they had to get off the bus too because they didn't they just chose to work unsafe.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:14.720
And that I mean when you choose to do that, I have a problem with it, you know.
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:19.039
And I always argued that people are like, oh, I don't have time to do this, or I have time to that.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:28.559
Like you make the time, and I promise you, you plan your work and you work your plan, not only will it be safer and more compliant, we're gonna do better profit-wise.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:33.920
And sure now now we're one of the fastest growing, you know, year-over-year regions.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.200
Uh profitability.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.960
You've uh been two years now, incident-free, recordable free.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:48.960
And everyone's happy, and you know, the the company's moving in a direction at a very, very rapid pace, and the team is engaged and we're getting there.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:49.759
That's awesome.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.559
That's awesome.
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.079
It's almost like they couldn't couldn't see it, right?
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.559
Just believing that it's kind of a limiting belief, like, oh, I don't have time to be safe.
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:12.319
Okay, but if you start by prioritizing that, you'll find out that, hey, not only do you have time, you have less less downtime, you didn't you don't hurt anybody or yourself, or you know, and and then the time magically shows up.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.839
It it it does.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.599
And, you know, again, I I always use the analogy of people at home, right?
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:24.880
You're going to mount a TV on the wall and bring the TV down, and you know, you don't read the instructions, you don't need to do that.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.160
You know, you go upstairs and you grab a couple of things, you're like, oh, I forgot this, go back upstairs.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.680
Oh, I forgot that, go back up.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:35.200
And you know, now you're making now you're making like five or six trips.
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:35.599
Right.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:43.680
When when had you when you unloaded the TV, had you looked at everything you needed, you would have grabbed everything you needed, and it would have been one step.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:44.240
Yeah.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:51.759
Um, as it relates to safety, it it becomes a little bit more compounded because what if you forgot your harness?
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:54.480
And you're like, oh, I'm just gonna hop on this car real quick.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:56.480
That's when accidents happen, right?
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:04.559
You know, we have um and it's it's every it's everyday life, truthfully, uh, where we have this, you know, we diminish it, we diminish the risks, right?
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:12.480
And it's one of our one of our big things here where we've done this so many times that we don't even recognize the hazard.
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:13.119
Right.
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:22.240
And you know, how I how I explain that is there's times where we have to get other trades on top of the elevator to check sensors at the top of the hoistway.
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:31.200
Mechanic gets on there, we do our thing, you get the electrician on there, whoever, they're like, oh my god, you guys ride on these things, you know, and they're kind of wow, this is crazy.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:31.759
Right.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.079
But for us, it's just it's like eating a lunch, no problem.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:39.759
Yeah, it's just walking a tight rope and hey, we do it every day.
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.480
But to your point, I mean, in a fraction of a second, that could all change, right?
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:49.519
With one little misstep, one little, you know, like I say, forget the harness, you, you know, whatever.
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.240
And it's unforgiving.
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:52.640
Yeah.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:57.200
Well, um, Jeff, I got one more question for you, and I appreciate you being with me.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:59.279
And and uh, you know, this has been a lot of fun.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:11.680
The uh the final question, you know, as you look back across your career from handling tools, overseeing hundreds of people, what's one lesson you hope that the next generation of leaders hears loud and clear?
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:16.720
I think for me, if I had one, I would say don't be afraid to ask for help.
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:19.039
Don't be afraid to ask.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:26.880
I struggled with that a lot, you know, as I as an early manager, where I was afraid to ask for help because I didn't want people to think that I didn't know what I was doing.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.200
When the reality of that, I just created more stress for myself and my family and everything else, right?
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:38.799
You know, working 14, 16, 18-hour days to try and get through when I could have asked someone, hey, what do you think about this?
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:40.400
Or hey, do you know about this?
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:45.119
You know, and it would have saved me so much time and and anxiety and everything else.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:54.480
When I relate that back to my mechanic days, where you're on a job site trying to fix something, and you're like, well, someone else has must must have faced this, right?
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.240
And you and you and you call someone and they're like, oh yeah, it's it's this.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.319
Well, I just saved myself two or three hours.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.079
I saved a company two or three hours.
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.880
Um, I don't have to bang my head against the controller.
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:05.920
You know what I mean?
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:06.319
Yeah.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:07.279
And I could move on.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.599
So I think that would be the biggest thing, you know.
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:10.880
Don't be afraid to ask.
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:11.360
Yeah.
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.599
Let me ask you just a little bit more on that.
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.400
So as a leader, like you said, I'm afraid they won't, you know, think that I know what I'm doing.
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:19.920
Is it people on your team?
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:21.199
Is it higher-ups?
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.960
What was the hardest group of people to ask?
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:32.320
Um, when I first started as a district manager, I was really afraid about what people would think of me if I didn't have all the answers.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.920
I felt at the time that I needed to know everything right away.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:36.719
And I didn't.
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:37.519
I really didn't.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:43.920
And, you know, truthfully, all it did was, you know, I get created more problems for myself, stress-wise, and everything else.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.199
Um, but I took away the power for my people, my teammates.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:56.800
I mean, I I I know how I feel when you know I have a you know, executive call me and say, hey, Jeff, um, hey, how would you handle this situation or how would you handle this problem?
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:03.199
You instantly get that feel of, oh my god, they they need me, they they want, you know, and you feel inclusive, right?
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.239
Well, that's that's what I took away from my team initially.
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.039
And now it's it's the exact opposite.
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.400
Now I I I really push people, like I said, out of their comfort zone.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:13.440
And hey, what do you think?
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:14.719
How do you handle this?
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.719
So that's that's really what it was.
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.480
I was a it was a total perception thing.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:23.280
It was not even ego, it was more just I didn't want them to think that I didn't know what I was doing.
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:23.599
Yeah.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.719
When the reality I really didn't know what I was doing when I first took it over.
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.960
Didn't want them to see in the truth, right?
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:30.880
It's it was so true.
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:32.880
Oh, that's awesome.
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:38.159
Thank you so much for for being with me today and and sharing your insights uh over your your career.
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:39.199
It's been a lot of fun.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:41.199
Oh, I appreciate the time and the opportunity.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:41.840
Yeah.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:48.960
Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:56.559
Please visit our YouTube channel at Elevator Careers or check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.079
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00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.480
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