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Whatever we humans do are, is not perfect, yeah? It's perfectible, you know, it's not perfect.
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[rock music] Welcome to the Circuit Magazine, the number one source of information on protection matters. The industry-leading magazine for all security professionals who want to stay ahead of the game.
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EP modernization with the ASIS incoming chair, Kevin Palacios. Today, Elijah Shaw and myself are delighted to be speaking with him at a time of great innovation in the industry, and also great change.
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Obviously, standards, always a hot button, uh, topic, but, uh, Elijah, what are you looking forward to about today's session? I think this one'll be very interesting.
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Um, uh, I don't know Kevin personally, but ASIS has been around for, you know, forever.
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And, uh, and so having someone like him on the program, being able to get his perspective on th- these issues, and to be honest, some of the issues are, are, are fairly controversial, so, uh, it'll, it'll be good to, to, to get his outlook and kind of, uh, and see what our listeners think.
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And I guess, you know, that's a good point, 'cause ASIS International, it's very much corporate security-focused. How much of a focus is that as an EP career pathway?
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As far as if there's an appeal to private EP, uh, transitioning over from corporate security as a career, I, I, I definitely think so.
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You know, I think the wonderful thing about our industry as a whole is that there's so many paths and avenues and lanes that you can choose from.
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And being able to switch or transition, you know, from one lane to the other is, isn't a bad thing. It just speaks to the robust nature of what we do.
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You know, if you get the experience, and you have the, the passion and the skill set, uh, you should be able to do whatever you want, uh, and make a career out of it. Well, fantastic.
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Let's get in at the ground level, you know, the incoming chair, uh, of, uh, ASIS, uh, EP Committee. Let's talk to Kevin Palacios and look at EP modernization.
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[rock music] And now, let's meet one of the contributors to the Circuit Magazine.
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EP modernization with the incoming chairman of the EP community for ASIS, Kevin Palacios. It's a great pleasure to have you on. How are you doing? I'm very well.
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Excited to be here, and, and ready to share a lot in this, in this, uh, podcast. And there's a lot to share, 'cause of course you have many hats.
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You're the regional chair for IFPO, you're the founder of HELPS Latam, and this, this new, uh, you know, posting as the incoming chairman for the EP community in ASIS, lots to, uh, to take on, right?
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Lots to look at i- in the community.
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I guess we have three quick-fire questions that we like to ask, uh, each time, and, you know, what is the problem we're trying to solve, and where does your passion come from, and what about the completely uninitiated?
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I'm gonna do it slightly differently 'cause it's a slightly different topic, but what are you hoping to solve, uh, with your new posting as the EP, uh, community chair at ASIS?
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Well, um, I'll say the, the, the, my, my mission will be to promote, uh, excellence and, and leadership in the executive protection co- industry itself. Um, and, uh, and I see this as a very, uh, global, uh, call.
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Um, ASIS is a international organization and, and, uh, uh, in my case, uh, I will be the first, uh, chairman from the EPC that is non, uh, US, uh, based or, or non, non-American, uh, or, or North American.
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So, uh, I see my, my mission as, uh, uh, promoting this excellence and leadership in a global scale. Fantastic. And of course you yourself are global. Well, compared to me, you're global.
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Of course, you know, for you, you're local. But it's, uh, it's great to have, uh, someone from Ecuador, at least based in Ecuador, on the podcast. Uh, where, where does your passion for all things EP come from?
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Well, I've been working in the industry for 25 years, and I go through all the ranks, from, uh, a, uh, a, uh, static, uh, guard operator at, at, uh, uh, events, all the way through
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a, a, uh, close protection officer, uh, being also an intel analyst at some point. Um, uh, and then of course I, I run, uh, missions, uh, throughout, uh, my, my region. I work all over Latin America, not only in Ecuador.
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I work in Colombia, in, in Peru, in Chile, Argentina. So, uh, by, by being exposed to, to some of these, um,
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some of these best practices that, that exist out there, um, I, I got, uh, very much, uh, in love with the organization, with ASIS. I find it a, a source for, for wisdom and a source for networking.
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It's incomparable really to, to any other security organization.
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And, and, um, I would say that over the years I, I got to learn, uh, one or two things, uh, but I feel that the, the EP, uh, specific, uh, area of the industry needs to, to, to improve a lot on, on, on a creation of a body of knowledge, creation of standards, and, and also to have a, uh, a recognition, a real recognition on, on what we really do.Perhaps moving away from, from these, uh, uh, biased, uh, images of what, what, uh, uh, Hollywood has, has brought into, into the minds of what a executive protection, uh, uh, professional is, and, uh, and again, bringing it on a more professional way in, in general, I'll say.
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Fantastic. And that, and that professionalization, uh, you know, that blends into standardization, which is, of course, a, a topic, uh, that people like to, uh, discuss, shall we say.
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But, but if we, if we take a step back, um, there aren't really any uninitiated protectors in protection because, you know, they're already focused on the, the, the subject.
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But what if I ask for a bit of clarity around the role of ASIS and EP? Uh, because o-o-obviously, there are many different, I suppose, routes to E-EP leadership.
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There's, there's many, uh, initiatives for standardization and, and, and training. But maybe if you could give us a bit of background on ASIS, ASIS, um, what, what are they working on?
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So, uh, ASIS International is, uh, I would say the, the, uh, largest, uh, organization globally in all things security. Yeah.
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So, uh, they have a presence, or, or we have a presence really, uh, all over the world with, with chapters and with, uh, several initiatives, uh, supporting, again, many different, uh, uh, organizations such as ISO, International Standardization Organization, uh, ANSI, and so on.
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In, uh, within, within ASIS, which of course is large, has a rich history, um, and so on,
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uh, we, uh, have several subject matter, uh, expert communities, and in my case, I am the chair of, uh, one of them, which is the Executive Protection community.
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We are right now about, uh, seventeen hundred, uh, people really in the, in the community. It's quite a large community. It's very diverse. We have lots of, uh, women.
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We have lots of people from all over the world, uh, and also on different, uh, backgrounds and, and different levels of involvement with EP, from manager, managers to, to all the way down to operators.
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And, um, therefore, I'll say that, uh, ASIS, uh, has, uh, uh, taken a, a, a, a path of leading, again, all things security since 1955,
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and, uh, it has actually gone through a process of creating standards, becoming a certification body, uh, uh, also, uh, of course, uh, running very successful standards.
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I guess everyone in the, in the industry knows what a CPP, what a PSP, what a PCI is.
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And, um, in this particular, uh, moment, I'll say, uh, one of our efforts will be to, um, use this, this wealth of knowledge and, and the experience that ASIS has,
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and, uh, uh, kind of channel it, uh, to the, uh, executive protection, uh, specialty.
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So ASIS is, is, uh, very well advanced in the process of, of creating a ISO standard, which is a international standard in this case.
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Uh, I, I really love the idea that, that, uh, it actually went all the way to being a, uh, international thing, is a global initiative.
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Um, again, um, and also, uh, as ASIS has the resources, uh, the experience, um, I believe that a process will, will come to a, uh, to a right end. Yeah. It's, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint race. Yeah.
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Um, I'm also a, uh, 17024 ISO, uh, auditor myself, so I know exactly what the process is like. Um, I know that it is a time-consuming, resource-consuming, and again, it's, it's a marathon.
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It's not, it's not about getting there. It's about, uh, sustaining the, the standard. So again, that's, that's one thing that, that ASIS is doing right now and, and we as a community are, are working hard on.
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Um, then also, uh, as, as a more kind of temporal thing, the next couple of years, my, my, uh, personal mission again is to bring, uh, ASIS, uh, into the, uh, uh, EP scene, uh, worldwide.
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So we want to be present at every single, uh, EP-centric, um, event. We want to make, uh, good relations with every single EP organization that is out there. Um, and, uh, again, this is not...
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This is a more of a, of a, uh, uh, uniting or adding, yeah, and, and, uh, hoping to, to get the executive protection, um, industry together.
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So, uh, that will be basically what, what we are focusing on or myself, I'm going to focus on the next couple of years as a chair of the EPC. Fantastic. Yeah.
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And, and I think that, I mean, that speaks to an inc-increasingly globalized workforce.
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Um, you know, over, over COVID, uh, lots of the community have got to know each other online, and they've met up in person, and, you know, it's, it, it seems really about time.
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But now I do want to get onto the standardization question, and I do wanna get onto, you know, standards and, and, and, and that hot topic.
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But I think what a good opportunity since you're based in Ecuador to sort of say, well, do you think that there's room for more collaboration, especially in the LATAM region?
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Because I mean, I, I, I don't know the LATAM region as well as maybe I, I couldUh, to what's the EP scene like there to, to, to... I mean, we know the EP summit in Mexico City, and we know, uh,
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that, that, and that's fantastic. But what's the, what's the s- the, the community like down there? And, you know, do, do people like co- cooperating and collaborating like maybe we do over here? Very much so.
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By the way, um, the, the, uh, executive protection community, uh, has a, uh, large presence in Latin America, all the way from Argentina, uh, where we have... This is very active.
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We, we, uh, we do a lot of, uh, meetings, and, uh, we even create, uh, newsletters, share a lot of best practices. Chile, uh, of course, uh, Peru, Ecuador, well, I'm from here.
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Uh, Colombia is, is, is very, very knowledgeable about, uh, operational EP. Uh, Brazil, well, Brazil is, is a whole continent by, by itself. Uh, and of course, yeah, you go to Central America, and, and yes, Mexico.
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Mexico is, is more, more visible, I'll say, because it's closer to the US. It's a large country as well. Has a lot to offer.
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Um, but also in the, in the Latin, uh, I prefer to call it Latin, not, not just LATAM because we have a really interesting, uh, support from, uh, some, uh, professionals in, in, uh, Spain, in Portugal, Andorra, for example.
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So yeah, we believe we have a lot to, to share. As, as a region, uh, we have had our big, our big, uh, share of, of, uh, of situations, uh, tasking situations, events, and, uh, of course, insecurity.
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So, uh, the protection of, of, uh, um, of, uh, these critical impact, uh, individuals in our region, well, we, we have a history on that and, and we're ready to share, and we're ready to, to, again, uh, come into, into, uh, into the scene and, and also, uh, give something to this, uh, world, uh, uh, body of knowledge.
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Just like any other region, by the way, because I, I also acknowledge that there is a lot, a lot, uh, that has been done in Europe, in the UK, and, uh, Middle East, yeah.
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You know, um, the, the experience of the, of the Israeli, uh, security forces and, and, uh, even Asia, which has a lot to, to, to offer, a lot to share.
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So, um, yeah, I believe, uh, everyone, uh, in the EP industry is somewhat on, on the same side, yeah? We should all be kind of, uh, supporting each other, helping each other. Networking is a must in this industry.
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It's, it's, it's just absolutely, uh, a, a, a nonsense, uh, uh, step that needs to be taken. Mm-hmm.
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And, uh, while we support, while we help, while we come to, to, to, uh, I guess, understanding, uh, within the industry, we will be stronger, and we will be able to complete our mission, which is the protection of, of these individuals that create a critical impact.
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Um, it's, it's very important, again, uh, my, my vision is that it is very important to acknowledge that this is, uh, not a US-centric initiative. This is more of a global initiative.
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Um, I'll do my best during these couple of years to, to get closer to, uh, again, professionals all over the world.
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And I'm, I'm glad, I'm glad you said that because, you know, e- e- even, uh, the CPP exam, uh, in the past, and this has changed, but in the past, people commented that some of the phraseology, some of the scenarios were US-centric, uh, in that exam, you know, and, and I think they've addressed it or, or at least they are addressing it, so it's, so it's good to have that.
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Um, I remember Ivan Ivanovic, who has come on the podcast before, um, mentioned that Mexico, he thought was a laboratory, that we could look into the world of EP in a much, uh, clearer way.
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So perhaps that transposes, uh, to Ecuador. Uh, I don't know. Um, I'd be interested... Obviously, I want to get onto standardization and that hot topic, you know.
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I'm not gonna go into diamond formation standardization just yet, but, um, is it possible to operate in different Latin countries, or is it
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just, you know, you hand off your principal at the border to someone else?
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That, that question has a relevance in the standardization question insofar as, you know, [laughs] what is equivocity, um, and, and, and, and how will an ISO standard help that?
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But, but I wonder, just for the dynamics, if I'm an operator thinking, "Right, I'm operating in Ecuador. Suddenly, someone's going to Peru. Can I go to Peru?" Or, or, or is it just very different wherever I go?
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Well, every country has its own, uh, regulations, uh, laws. So, uh, when we, when we work on the EP industry, we have to face that, uh, big and, and crucial, um, part of our, of our work.
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Yeah, we need to understand the differences in regulations, laws, and, and of course, yeah, the, the, the customs in every single, in every single country. So the, um,
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standard will be then that if you come from the UK and if you want to work in, uh, uh, or, or if you are protecting a, a, a principal, a, an executive in Argentina, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, uh, you, you can actually, uh, visit the country for sure.
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Um, unless you have a working permit, you wouldn't be, uh, officially workingReally in, in these countries.
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Um, and by the way, uh, unless you go through a lengthy, difficult process of, of being licensed and, and, and, eh, also getting a permit to, for example, carry a, a firearm, you wouldn't be able to do so. So,
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um, for the ease of, uh, of, of practicality, I would say, eh, what normally happens is that EP, eh, agents that, that come from Europe, from North America, they, they go into the country as part of the, of the entourage of the, of the principal, the executive, and they rely on local professionals like myself, eh, with the, with our licenses, with our personnel, with of course our resources, local resources to, to actually do the operation.
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Yeah? Now, uh, a big important and, and crucial part of, of, eh, executive protection will be a risk analysis and of course a, a proper, eh, advance work.
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So, um, the ones that know, uh, more about our risks, eh, in, in our countries, well, will be us.
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Eh, doesn't matter if, if you're an analyst sitting, uh, on a, on a computer somewhere else, well, there's just, uh, a limit of what you can get out of, out of a OC and then and so on. Yeah.
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So, uh, basically, having our, our boots on the ground, eh, is, is basically, uh, eh, necessary for doing these, these risk analysis. And, and of course, due diligence, you need to know who you're dealing with locally.
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Uh, and of course doing a proper advance, uh, which takes a few days and, and knowledge on, on the ground. Well, that, that has to, eh, have a big, eh, local component. And so is that why the standard is so important?
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Because especially if you're doing something really fast, you see, aha, they have this new ISO standard, I know what they're all about. Yeah.
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The way, the way we, we manage a, uh, EP detail should be somewhat standardized. Um, requirements for, for executive protection, uh, professionals, uh, should be also standardized.
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As well as, I'll say, um, general, general terms on, on, on, on operations, well, you know, a best practices should also be standardized.
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Always, always there is a local, eh, component that cannot be standardized, yeah, like laws, regulations, as well as of course the, the, the local, eh, flavor, eh, which is totally different and, and of course it goes, uh, according to, to the different countries.
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You know, even, even in the, in the US, you know, uh, I've done very little, eh, work as an, as an EP professional in the US, in the United States. Uh, normally when I go there, I, I follow the same procedure.
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I just go as a, as part of the, of the crew or, or the, or the, the, the entourage of, of the executive.
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Uh, but I, even in the United States, uh, they have, like, different regulations and different ways of doing things, uh, in, in different states. Yeah?
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So when you cross a, a state line, uh, your, your license could, will, in most cases is not good in, in a different sta- in a different state.
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Uh, even, uh, it, it will be, uh, illegal for some people to, to actually, um, continue on working, eh, as, as an EP professional, uh, while they're driving and, and they cross a state line. Yeah.
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Or, uh, carrying firearms is, is a, is a whole different story as well. So what we standardize will not be laws, will be more, eh, procedures, eh, a language. We need to have a common language.
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We need to understand each other. Yeah?
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Even though I'm, I'm speaking your language now, I'm speaking English, well, of course, uh, but we're talking about the technical, eh, part of, of, of executive protection that needs to be standardized.
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And, and, and, and I can fully see that and, and again, you know, there's, there's that other question, who's asking for this standard?
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And I remember we had, uh, James Cameron on, and I put to James, uh, and the BEP, I said, "Well, who's asking for it? Is, are customers asking for it? Are clients asking for it? Are principals asking for it?
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Are other operators asking for it?"
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So I, I guess we do want to explore that, but one really kind of positive thing about your initiative that just sprung to my mind, and maybe this is intentional, an EP operator who gets into the ASIS system
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can see themselves as part of a wider whole.
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And instead of the usual, or quote unquote, usual career path of be an operator, be a team leader, maybe set up your own, uh, firm, maybe become a consultant, I, I can see that that would help them find mentors into the world of corporate security.
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Yes. Because, because there are lots of EP professionals who don't necessarily know enough about ASIS 'cause, oh, that's, that's about, you know, a building manager. That's about corporate security.
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So i- is that intentional to try and marry these two sectors together? Yeah. Um, ASIS is all things security. And, um, you have, uh,
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communities with, with different specialties and, and there are, I believe, 32 or 36 communities right now. And, uh, and yeah.
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So, uh, first of all, the, if you, if you're looking to, to do a, a, uh, or to follow a career path-I'll say in, in ASAS we have some very interesting mentorship programs that, that can help you on that.
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So, uh, doesn't matter if you are brand new to the industry, if you are a young professional, um, you, you can actually join the excitation community and, and you will be among peers.
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And, and we are all about, uh, supporting, helping and, and of course, advising if needed. Yeah.
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Um, then of course, um, it, it is important to, to acknowledge that ASAS is more of a, of a management level and directors level organization.
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So, um, that's, that's, uh, what they, what they call, well, the, the old, the old boys', uh, type of a circle. Yeah. And, uh, and you get kind of, um, exposed to that as well.
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That's, that's an important part of, of, of ASAS. So, uh, you can get to, um, uh, actually understand what corporate security is really about, what a, a role of a security manager, uh, is really about.
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And, um, then of course, uh, a big important part of, of what you get out of ASAS is, uh, also networking and, and opportunities. Yeah.
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Uh, we're talking about, again, the, the largest member-based, uh, security organization in the world. So, uh, you will be therefore, um, able to reach people pretty much in every single country. Um,
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it's, uh, sort of a, a, a, uh, a, uh, realization where, where you, you can rely on, on people because you, we all have to follow a certain code of ethics and so on.
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And, and then there is also a basic body of knowledge that, that most certified professionals follow. So, uh, so it has these, these advantages. Yeah. Um, ASAS is not a, just a certification body.
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ASAS is not just a, a board that, that creates, uh, standards and so on. It's a lot more than that. Yeah. And, uh,
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by all means, uh, again, my, my plan is to bring ASAS more into the, into the eyes of, uh, uh, EP professionals all over the world, and vice versa also to, to attract and to create, uh, for as much as possible, uh, agreements with every single organization.
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I, I try personally to be in good terms with every single professional. Yeah. We're, we're again on the same side. The, the criminals are on the other side. Yeah.
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I think, I think that's, that's one of the really lovely things about the community is that maybe people disagree on standards, [laughs] you know, maybe they do, but at least they know they need to work together.
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Um, and at least in, in many geographies, there's enough work that they don't come into, you know, too fierce a competition with each other.
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Um, of course, yeah, there's, there's, there's areas of fierce competition in every, in every area. But let's, let's come onto it then.
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S- when we, when we talk standards, the, the thing that sets LinkedIn alight, uh, and probably Facebook, you know, is when somebody says, "Oh, it, it should be done this way. It should be done this way."
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And then someone pipes up with the overarching question, "But who's asking for these standards?" I, I, I guess, what, what, what's y- what's your take on that? 'Cause y- y- you know, what's, what's driving it?
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Obviously, it's very good to see the industry standardized, and it's very good to see licensing, uh, but, but who's asking for an ISO standard?
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Many, uh, interested parties are, are, are asking for a standardization. I'll say, uh, to begin with ourselves, yeah, professionals. Like, uh, yes, in my case, um, again, I've been, uh, 25 years in this profession.
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It took me a long while to, to understand, uh, the, the, uh, I'll say, standard way of, of, of doing EP business, uh, from a corporate, uh, point of view, uh, you know, North American, European and so on.
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So it will have saved me, uh, well, both lots and lots of, of time and, and, and, and money and so on, uh, uh, by, by leaping through that, through that, uh, learning curve and, and just going to, okay, this is what, what, what needs to be done.
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That's, that's one thing, ourselves. Yeah. Um, I say as, as individuals, and also as professionals, because you need to be able to trust your partners, you need to really be able to trust your, your vendors.
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Um, and, and standardization is a way of also setting a, I'll say a, a way of, of, uh, due diligence really, uh, among the industry. So this is very important.
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Now, um, seeing it from a company or from a corporate, uh, way of doing it, uh, by following a standard, you show that you are, uh, doing your duty of care properly, that you are fulfilling all of your, I guess, uh, due diligence, uh, in a corporate way.
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Uh, so that has also legal ramifications in case of a, of a, uh, of a situation where you have lawyers and, and, and courts and so on involved. Knowing that, uh, or letting them know that you
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did, uh, follow a standard which is, uh, uh, approved by, by peers, approved by the industry and, and even recognized by international bodies, well, is, is great. I would say that,
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um, standards are like, like having a, a, uh, a big strong, uh, uh-Tree, uh, that you just keep it very close and in case, uh, the big, uh, the big, the big, um, uh,
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storm, uh, comes, uh, well, you, you know, you can, you can always embrace it and, and, and, and you let them know that you are there. So it, it keeps you rooted and, and it keeps you safe.
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Then on the other hand, I guess also regulators, uh, in some ways, um, you know, uh, even though, uh, they will never, uh, agree on, on having a, a, a single law. Yeah.
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The way, the way you do things in the UK, uh, is totally different as, as the way government runs things in, in, in Ecuador or in Latin America, uh, as, as, as North America.
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But regulators will always, uh, be in favor of having at least some basic, um, let's say common grounds. Yeah.
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So, uh, having these common grounds, uh, also eases, I guess the, uh, the updating of, of laws, which is always very important.
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Hopefully, you know, John Lennon will be one only world and, and we'll all live in, in peace and, and so on in the future. But then I guess this, this is also, uh, something important from that, that sense. Yeah.
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Um, academia is, is always, uh, uh, something that intrigues me because, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a university professor myself, and there is absolutely, um, very little...
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Oh, I, I was about to say none, but, but almost, almost none research done on executive protection itself. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, well, that's a good point. And, and we- we've had, uh, Dr.
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Treston, uh, Wheaton, and we've had my friend, uh, Dr. Samantha Newberry from University of Salford, and they're working on the, uh, IPSP journal. They're trying to give it a, a much more academic flair.
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Um, there will be other initiatives, of course. Um, but one thing that that brought up was of, as you said, the lack of secondary literature, [laughs] but the, the, the lack of academic, uh, rigor.
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They did flag that they're working on making academia apply to operations, 'cause otherwise it's just...
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Well, it's, it's very thoughtful, but it, it can be navel-gazing in that you're, you're going, "Hmm, I, I, I was a barbarian, now I'm in the boardroom." So there's, there's that element to it.
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But going the other way around, I wonder if the standardization will give us the tools to conduct, uh, research or, or will we alra- always be hampered by the fact that, well, we're looking after ultra-high net worth individuals, so they don't really want, [laughs] they don't really want all their details and bits and bobs out there.
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Um, I, I, I guess that's, that's, that's more a poke-the-bear question, but, uh, but what do you think?
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It's, it's, it's very important to differentiate between a body of knowledge, so, so that's what you get when you write a book. Yeah. Or when you write a, I guess a guideline or, or whatever, uh, from a standard.
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So a standard is more kind of a set of minimums. Yeah. What, what is the minimum that needs to be done? And, um, part of the standard will also be, is, is agreeing on a common language. Yeah.
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Terms, definitions, which are very important. Yeah. As a, as a, as a neurolinguistic professional myself, I also say that, that words are extremely important for, for people.
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And, um, knowledge, knowledge, uh, uh, for, for the human race works on a, on a constructive way. So, uh, it's not an end, having a standard, but I'll say it's kind of a stepping stone.
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Once we have as that, uh, step, and once we have a, again, a standard, then we can, uh, go beyond and, and create many other things. Yeah. Plus of course, uh, whatever we humans do are, is not perfect.
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Yeah. It's perfectible, you know, it's not perfect.
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So, uh, even though, uh, a standard is, is a best effort run by, by people in a given point of time, uh, to, to, to set what, what is right, uh, it always needs to be improved, changed and, and, uh, again, that's, that's...
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That is the reason why I strongly believe that a organization with the history, with the resources like ASIS was created more than, well, in 1955. So it's, it's almost, well, what?
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Seventy years old now, or something like that. And, I mean, it has proven that it can withstand the, the test of time. Yeah. Um, because again, it's, it's not, it's not a sprint, uh, it is a marathon.
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And how is it, if I can ask, and if it's, you know, I don't know, how is it different to the proposed ANSI standard? Um, is, is, is it going after the same types of standardization or is it different?
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I, uh, I am very familiar with what the BEPP is doing. Uh, I, I am very familiar with the, with the content of it. Now, the BEPP is basically, uh, working more on a very operational, uh, level.
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I would say is, is, uh, as, as, as far as I know until now, they kind of work, uh, very hard on, on setting up a body of knowledge. Yeah. Which is great, just a, a lot of theory.
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Um, and yeah, that is going to be, uh, at some point, uh, turned into a standard, proper standard, and then it has to be, uh, well, it has to go through public review, and it's a big process. Yeah.
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Now, that is going to be more, I'll say, US-centric because that is an ANSI, that's a North American, uh, standard.Well, ASEAS, uh, chose to go more international right from the beginning, so we are working with ISO-ISO.
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So I'd say that that would be a, a, a big, a big difference. Um, ASEAS standard is a lot more aligned to the plan, do, check, act, uh, uh, cycle.
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Uh, again, so it's, it's more kind of compatible with every single other standard that is out there. ISO standards, I mean like, uh, ISO 18788 or, or 9001, 45001, uh, you name it. Yeah.
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So by having a, uh, again, an international ISO standard, uh, we would be able to, I guess, um,
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uh, integrate into, uh, what corporations are doing in, in their own business and, and we will be able to, uh, merge or, or say, uh, bring the, the EP part of, of, of, uh, of, uh, business into the, uh, other industries, uh, business, uh, uh, in, in a, in a nicer term, I guess.
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Yeah. So having, having it under ISO, um, yeah, I believe is, is the right way, uh, thinking in a long term and in a global way. It has its merit, by the way, BEPP is, is, and I'm a big supporter of what they're doing.
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I really believe they, they, they can, they can, uh, uh, create something which is good and will add to, to the industry. But of course, it's a different path, the one that is taken. Yeah.
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And, and, and on that sort of note of unifying and, and collaborating and reaching out, even, even if it's just for my own benefit, if everyone else in the audience knows about, uh, all these extra associations that we might wanna reach out to, then, you know, please answer us on a, on a postcard.
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But if, but if I look around, there are organizations large and small. Uh, I, I saw even, um, you know, our friends, uh, doing the Texas EP, uh, mixer, right?
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Just for Texas and, uh, and, and there was one in, uh, Alberta with a different organization as well.
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Um, and, and I remember back 2016, the first IPSB conference, uh, was sort of an attempt to, to blend, uh, existing events from Nine Lives, from EPI, from ESI, and so on.
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Uh, what organization names, uh, should we be looking at in, uh, the Latin world? Um, uh, uh, is there like the, the Peruvian AP, uh, weekly mixer? I don't know.
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[laughs] You know, what, what are these names of people we should be reaching out to in terms of organizations? Well, I'll say, um, more than, than... Well, there-- we have a number of, uh,
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local, I'll say, country, um, based organizations. Um, most of them are, uh, small or middle size. Some of them do need a lot of, uh, work on, on their own, uh, again, standardization.
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Some of them are just, um, working based on, on, on the, uh, old, uh, I'll say, uh, methods or, or ways of seeing the EP more as a, as a police or, or, or, or extension of military, uh, operations.
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Uh, EP is more, uh, again, uh, private, by the way, so, so it's, it's, it's... They're, they're not really on, on the right path. Um, there is a lot of, uh, that, that has been done in regarding regulations.
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Again, uh, Colombia is, is a very interesting, um, uh, example of it. Well, because it, it, it was, uh...
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It went, it went through a whole different, uh, set of, of, of, uh, really asking situations with, with, uh, uh, the guerrilla and so on, and, and it made the, uh, law in Colombia being very detailed, yeah, regarding what you can do, what you cannot do.
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Uh, it's, it's almost, almost, uh, asphyxiating in, in some senses because it's, it, it gives you basically every single detail of what you need to do. Um, again, Argentina is an interesting place to, to see.
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Um, they are doing a lot regarding, uh, operational, uh, type of training, um, which is great, is good, but it's, it's, uh, it's not really what, what you do work, uh, or what you do mostly in your work, which is more of a, of a technical nature.
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I'm, I'm more of a big proponent of, of risk analysis and, again, due diligence and, and, and doing your field work, yeah, which is the most important part. Uh, Mexico. Mexico is very varied.
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There, there are a number of, uh, small organizations. Uh, they have a large event, which is great. The, the, uh, the ET event, which is run by, by, um...
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And actually, right now, this year, they're going to, they're going to, uh, have a collaboration with the IPSB, so sort of IPSB in Mexico, uh, you know, that's, that's what's going to happen over there.
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Um, so yeah, there are a number of, um, I'll say, uh, country-specific organizations. I wouldn't, uh, like to kind of name any specific one 'cause we're talking about 22 different countries.
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[laughs] So if I name anyone- You'll, you'll, you'll miss them out and they'll say, "Why didn't you mention me?" [laughs] Exactly.
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But anyway, um, and just as, as, as a matter of fact, uh, if anyone that is, is listening to this, uh, podcast, uh, wants to, uh, uh, perhaps, uh, suggest a collaboration between the ASEAS EPC and any, uh, organization, again, not only in Latin America, but worldwideUm, I'm all ears.
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Uh, I'll, I'll be more than happy to, again, uh, try to, to get as close to, to, to, uh, yeah, as, as one on the industry really, yeah. Well, perfect. Yeah, that's, that's absolutely what our listeners should do.
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'Cause, yes, y- we do have many listeners that are specifically from North America and Europe, yet we know when we see [chuckles] the stats, we have, uh, Latin, uh, listeners, African listeners, Asian listeners, um, and, uh, and of course A- Australasia as, as well.
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So, so, so absolutely people should reach out.
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Um, I'd b- I'd be interested to see on the Asian side, just, uh, a few sessions ago we, we had a focus on China and, uh, so- some of the challenges [chuckles] of being an EP operative in China and some of the things you're definitely not allowed to do.
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But hey, that has to be built into the community too. That has to be built into the standard. So I'd really, uh, be, be interested in that.
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I'm, I'm very much looking forward to seeing what the EP Summit, uh, does this year. And, uh, if not before next January, I'm looking forward to welcoming you, Kevin, in person to the next London event in January.
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I think, I think we're gonna have to find an opportunity before then, but, uh, but I think it will be, it will be good. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll be honored to be there, by the way. Yeah. Fantastic.
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And, and it's gonna be the 30th of January, because we're always the week after Davos, and because the way the year [chuckles] is structured, it means that we're on the 30th of January, 2025.
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Um, ne- never too late to get in your diary. [chuckles] Um, but good. Well, Kevin, thank you very much, and I, and I appreciate this is a blend of topics.
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Um, we are very interested to see what your work with the ISO standard brings, what your work with the, uh, community within ASIS, uh, brings.
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But it was also lovely to hear your thoughts on, uh, the region, the Latin region. I call it LATAM, but you, you, you gave me some food for thought calling it the Latin region, 'cause, you know, hadn't appreciated that.
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Um, what's, what's next for you, Kevin? Where can we next find you? Well, um, uh, you can find me virtually. Uh, I'm, I used to... Well, I am very, uh, active on LinkedIn, so you can find me as, as, uh, Coach Seguida.
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That's my, my, my name over there. Well, you can, we can put a link here so it would be easier for, for anyone to, to reach me there.
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Um, I am very active, of course, uh, on, uh, on, on championing for security officers, that's operational level security officers, through the International Foundation for Protection Officers.
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So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm also doing a lot of, uh, I guess, uh, voluntary work on, on, uh, on helping, I'll say, uh, these forgotten soldiers, which are the ones that are doing, uh, the boots on the ground really work, uh, uh, night shifts and so on.
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Um, yes, I am going to be, uh, very active, uh, as, as part of the EPC.
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By the way, um, on the February 15th, yeah, uh, that will be, I guess, next week, we're going to have a, uh, a get-together for the EP community. By the way, this meeting is not exclusive, yeah?
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I, I want this to be, uh, a very, uh, I'll say, open, um, invitation to, to anyone in the industry that may want to join us. Uh, we're going to discuss about these, uh, high-profile attacks that happened worldwide.
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We want to give it a, a, uh, kind of a global, uh, overview of what happened in, in Europe, what's, what happened in, in, uh, in Asia, Latin America, North America regarding political figures.
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So, uh, we're gonna have a panel discussion on, on the 15th. You're welcome, by the way, and, and please, uh, please share it in, in your, in your, in your social networks. Uh, we welcome everyone to join.
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Um, and after that, well, we have a few plans for, for the year, including, uh, these quarterly, uh, events. We're gonna have some events in, in Spanish language as well.
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Um, and we want to be, uh, present as part of the EPC on every single, uh, EP specific event, uh, around the world. So, uh, I'm just open for any invitation.
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Yeah, if you're running an event, I'll, I'll try to, well, do my best to be in all of them. Fantastic. Well, that's, that's a challenge. Yes, uh, you're gonna get all the invitations now.
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Um, uh, but, uh, but definitely from, from, uh, from me and from us. Um, well, Kevin, thank you very much for coming on. Thanks for, you know, telling us about your, your, your new mission.
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Um, I hope this spurs some meaningful debate and, uh, it's been a pleasure dropping in on Ecuador and the Latin region as well. So Kevin, thank you very much.
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This has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit Magazine podcast. [rock music] Well, thank you very much, Kevin.
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And, you know, so pleased that we caught you as you, you know, move into that new position, and I'm sure some fantastic leadership we will, uh, see. I'm back with Elijah Shaw.
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Um, Elijah, what did you make of today's session? Pretty, pretty far-reaching, pretty broad-ranging, but what are, what are your thoughts?
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So as I mentioned, uh, I didn't know Kevin, but it was great to kind of get a sense of his take, uh, on all of these different issues and, uh, I think our listeners will find benefit from it.
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And that's the amazing thing about The Circuit.
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We interview people from all over the world, literally, and, uh, and from different backgrounds, and we're able to kind of take that and, uh, and present that, uh, and package that, uh, in a way that just at the, literally at the tip of your finger, you can, uh, you can get some additional insight on our industry.
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Mm-hmm.Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for, for, for joining us, Kevin. What about you, Elijah? What's next for you? All right, so what's next for me? Um, well, this has been a busy one.
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In fact, uh, listeners might have noticed I haven't been, uh, you haven't been able to hear my, uh, wonderful voice on the podcast as much of late because, uh, I've been very active with an operation that's been going on for the last several months.
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That's actually winding down to the end, so I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel and, uh, and I'm kind of plotting out what's happening next for, uh, the spring and the summer.
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Um, for me, that's gonna include, uh, trying to get another training course out, and then there's a couple conferences I'm gonna speak at.
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I'll probably hold on those announcements for right now, but, uh, but hopefully by next episode, I'll be able to, to kind of give some specific dates, times, and locations. Well, when you know, let me know.
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I'm looking forward to it, and I know our community really appreciates your courses. Um, well, moving forward, for, for me, this, uh, this coming next week, I will be at ASIS European Vienna.
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If you're around, please do say hello. I know that there's gonna be a good IS-- IPSB showing. There's, there'll be an IPSB mixer. Thomas Geppert has sent something out.
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I know ASIS Europe, ASIS UK is also having a mixer, as is WIS, Women in Security. Brittany Galley, I think, is organizing something. There's just something for everyone. Um, so if you, uh, are going, please do say hello.
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There are a few WhatsApp groups people can join and, and so on. And of course, uh, do let us know in the BBA Connect, uh, app or the NABA Connect app because that keeps us all together as we, uh, you know, move around.
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As always, we're looking for more contributors to the magazine. I know that, uh, some of our latest podcast guests have written articles, which is great news and, uh, and I, I'm really looking forward to that.
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And I want to have more sessions with Elijah. That's what, that's what I want. So I'm, uh, I'm, I'm very much looking forward to next few editions. This has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit Magazine podcast.
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[rock music] You have been listening to the Circuit Magazine podcast. Be sure to subscribe and be sure to not miss an episode.
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[rock music]
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Whatever we humans do are, is not perfect, yeah? It's perfectible, you know, it's not perfect.
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[rock music] Welcome to the Circuit Magazine, the number one source of information on protection matters. The industry-leading magazine for all security professionals who want to stay ahead of the game.
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EP modernization with the ASIS incoming chair, Kevin Palacios. Today, Elijah Shaw and myself are delighted to be speaking with him at a time of great innovation in the industry, and also great change.
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Obviously, standards, always a hot button, uh, topic, but, uh, Elijah, what are you looking forward to about today's session? I think this one'll be very interesting.
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Um, uh, I don't know Kevin personally, but ASIS has been around for, you know, forever.
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And, uh, and so having someone like him on the program, being able to get his perspective on th- these issues, and to be honest, some of the issues are, are, are fairly controversial, so, uh, it'll, it'll be good to, to, to get his outlook and kind of, uh, and see what our listeners think.
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And I guess, you know, that's a good point, 'cause ASIS International, it's very much corporate security-focused. How much of a focus is that as an EP career pathway?
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As far as if there's an appeal to private EP, uh, transitioning over from corporate security as a career, I, I, I definitely think so.
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You know, I think the wonderful thing about our industry as a whole is that there's so many paths and avenues and lanes that you can choose from.
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And being able to switch or transition, you know, from one lane to the other is, isn't a bad thing. It just speaks to the robust nature of what we do.
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You know, if you get the experience, and you have the, the passion and the skill set, uh, you should be able to do whatever you want, uh, and make a career out of it. Well, fantastic.
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Let's get in at the ground level, you know, the incoming chair, uh, of, uh, ASIS, uh, EP Committee. Let's talk to Kevin Palacios and look at EP modernization.
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[rock music] And now, let's meet one of the contributors to the Circuit Magazine.
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EP modernization with the incoming chairman of the EP community for ASIS, Kevin Palacios. It's a great pleasure to have you on. How are you doing? I'm very well.
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Excited to be here, and, and ready to share a lot in this, in this, uh, podcast. And there's a lot to share, 'cause of course you have many hats.
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You're the regional chair for IFPO, you're the founder of HELPS Latam, and this, this new, uh, you know, posting as the incoming chairman for the EP community in ASIS, lots to, uh, to take on, right?
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Lots to look at i- in the community.
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I guess we have three quick-fire questions that we like to ask, uh, each time, and, you know, what is the problem we're trying to solve, and where does your passion come from, and what about the completely uninitiated?
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I'm gonna do it slightly differently 'cause it's a slightly different topic, but what are you hoping to solve, uh, with your new posting as the EP, uh, community chair at ASIS?
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Well, um, I'll say the, the, the, my, my mission will be to promote, uh, excellence and, and leadership in the executive protection co- industry itself. Um, and, uh, and I see this as a very, uh, global, uh, call.
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Um, ASIS is a international organization and, and, uh, uh, in my case, uh, I will be the first, uh, chairman from the EPC that is non, uh, US, uh, based or, or non, non-American, uh, or, or North American.
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So, uh, I see my, my mission as, uh, uh, promoting this excellence and leadership in a global scale. Fantastic. And of course you yourself are global. Well, compared to me, you're global.
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Of course, you know, for you, you're local. But it's, uh, it's great to have, uh, someone from Ecuador, at least based in Ecuador, on the podcast. Uh, where, where does your passion for all things EP come from?
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Well, I've been working in the industry for 25 years, and I go through all the ranks, from, uh, a, uh, a, uh, static, uh, guard operator at, at, uh, uh, events, all the way through
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a, a, uh, close protection officer, uh, being also an intel analyst at some point. Um, uh, and then of course I, I run, uh, missions, uh, throughout, uh, my, my region. I work all over Latin America, not only in Ecuador.
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I work in Colombia, in, in Peru, in Chile, Argentina. So, uh, by, by being exposed to, to some of these, um,
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some of these best practices that, that exist out there, um, I, I got, uh, very much, uh, in love with the organization, with ASIS. I find it a, a source for, for wisdom and a source for networking.
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It's incomparable really to, to any other security organization.
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And, and, um, I would say that over the years I, I got to learn, uh, one or two things, uh, but I feel that the, the EP, uh, specific, uh, area of the industry needs to, to, to improve a lot on, on, on a creation of a body of knowledge, creation of standards, and, and also to have a, uh, a recognition, a real recognition on, on what we really do.Perhaps moving away from, from these, uh, uh, biased, uh, images of what, what, uh, uh, Hollywood has, has brought into, into the minds of what a executive protection, uh, uh, professional is, and, uh, and again, bringing it on a more professional way in, in general, I'll say.
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Fantastic. And that, and that professionalization, uh, you know, that blends into standardization, which is, of course, a, a topic, uh, that people like to, uh, discuss, shall we say.
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But, but if we, if we take a step back, um, there aren't really any uninitiated protectors in protection because, you know, they're already focused on the, the, the subject.
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But what if I ask for a bit of clarity around the role of ASIS and EP? Uh, because o-o-obviously, there are many different, I suppose, routes to E-EP leadership.
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There's, there's many, uh, initiatives for standardization and, and, and training. But maybe if you could give us a bit of background on ASIS, ASIS, um, what, what are they working on?
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So, uh, ASIS International is, uh, I would say the, the, uh, largest, uh, organization globally in all things security. Yeah.
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So, uh, they have a presence, or, or we have a presence really, uh, all over the world with, with chapters and with, uh, several initiatives, uh, supporting, again, many different, uh, uh, organizations such as ISO, International Standardization Organization, uh, ANSI, and so on.
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In, uh, within, within ASIS, which of course is large, has a rich history, um, and so on,
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uh, we, uh, have several subject matter, uh, expert communities, and in my case, I am the chair of, uh, one of them, which is the Executive Protection community.
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We are right now about, uh, seventeen hundred, uh, people really in the, in the community. It's quite a large community. It's very diverse. We have lots of, uh, women.
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We have lots of people from all over the world, uh, and also on different, uh, backgrounds and, and different levels of involvement with EP, from manager, managers to, to all the way down to operators.
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And, um, therefore, I'll say that, uh, ASIS, uh, has, uh, uh, taken a, a, a, a path of leading, again, all things security since 1955,
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and, uh, it has actually gone through a process of creating standards, becoming a certification body, uh, uh, also, uh, of course, uh, running very successful standards.
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I guess everyone in the, in the industry knows what a CPP, what a PSP, what a PCI is.
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And, um, in this particular, uh, moment, I'll say, uh, one of our efforts will be to, um, use this, this wealth of knowledge and, and the experience that ASIS has,
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and, uh, uh, kind of channel it, uh, to the, uh, executive protection, uh, specialty.
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So ASIS is, is, uh, very well advanced in the process of, of creating a ISO standard, which is a international standard in this case.
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Uh, I, I really love the idea that, that, uh, it actually went all the way to being a, uh, international thing, is a global initiative.
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Um, again, um, and also, uh, as ASIS has the resources, uh, the experience, um, I believe that a process will, will come to a, uh, to a right end. Yeah. It's, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint race. Yeah.
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Um, I'm also a, uh, 17024 ISO, uh, auditor myself, so I know exactly what the process is like. Um, I know that it is a time-consuming, resource-consuming, and again, it's, it's a marathon.
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It's not, it's not about getting there. It's about, uh, sustaining the, the standard. So again, that's, that's one thing that, that ASIS is doing right now and, and we as a community are, are working hard on.
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Um, then also, uh, as, as a more kind of temporal thing, the next couple of years, my, my, uh, personal mission again is to bring, uh, ASIS, uh, into the, uh, uh, EP scene, uh, worldwide.
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So we want to be present at every single, uh, EP-centric, um, event. We want to make, uh, good relations with every single EP organization that is out there. Um, and, uh, again, this is not...
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This is a more of a, of a, uh, uh, uniting or adding, yeah, and, and, uh, hoping to, to get the executive protection, um, industry together.
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So, uh, that will be basically what, what we are focusing on or myself, I'm going to focus on the next couple of years as a chair of the EPC. Fantastic. Yeah.
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And, and I think that, I mean, that speaks to an inc-increasingly globalized workforce.
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Um, you know, over, over COVID, uh, lots of the community have got to know each other online, and they've met up in person, and, you know, it's, it, it seems really about time.
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But now I do want to get onto the standardization question, and I do wanna get onto, you know, standards and, and, and, and that hot topic.
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But I think what a good opportunity since you're based in Ecuador to sort of say, well, do you think that there's room for more collaboration, especially in the LATAM region?
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Because I mean, I, I, I don't know the LATAM region as well as maybe I, I couldUh, to what's the EP scene like there to, to, to... I mean, we know the EP summit in Mexico City, and we know, uh,
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that, that, and that's fantastic. But what's the, what's the s- the, the community like down there? And, you know, do, do people like co- cooperating and collaborating like maybe we do over here? Very much so.
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By the way, um, the, the, uh, executive protection community, uh, has a, uh, large presence in Latin America, all the way from Argentina, uh, where we have... This is very active.
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We, we, uh, we do a lot of, uh, meetings, and, uh, we even create, uh, newsletters, share a lot of best practices. Chile, uh, of course, uh, Peru, Ecuador, well, I'm from here.
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Uh, Colombia is, is, is very, very knowledgeable about, uh, operational EP. Uh, Brazil, well, Brazil is, is a whole continent by, by itself. Uh, and of course, yeah, you go to Central America, and, and yes, Mexico.
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Mexico is, is more, more visible, I'll say, because it's closer to the US. It's a large country as well. Has a lot to offer.
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Um, but also in the, in the Latin, uh, I prefer to call it Latin, not, not just LATAM because we have a really interesting, uh, support from, uh, some, uh, professionals in, in, uh, Spain, in Portugal, Andorra, for example.
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So yeah, we believe we have a lot to, to share. As, as a region, uh, we have had our big, our big, uh, share of, of, uh, of situations, uh, tasking situations, events, and, uh, of course, insecurity.
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So, uh, the protection of, of, uh, um, of, uh, these critical impact, uh, individuals in our region, well, we, we have a history on that and, and we're ready to share, and we're ready to, to, again, uh, come into, into, uh, into the scene and, and also, uh, give something to this, uh, world, uh, uh, body of knowledge.
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Just like any other region, by the way, because I, I also acknowledge that there is a lot, a lot, uh, that has been done in Europe, in the UK, and, uh, Middle East, yeah.
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You know, um, the, the experience of the, of the Israeli, uh, security forces and, and, uh, even Asia, which has a lot to, to, to offer, a lot to share.
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So, um, yeah, I believe, uh, everyone, uh, in the EP industry is somewhat on, on the same side, yeah? We should all be kind of, uh, supporting each other, helping each other. Networking is a must in this industry.
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It's, it's, it's just absolutely, uh, a, a, a nonsense, uh, uh, step that needs to be taken. Mm-hmm.
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And, uh, while we support, while we help, while we come to, to, to, uh, I guess, understanding, uh, within the industry, we will be stronger, and we will be able to complete our mission, which is the protection of, of these individuals that create a critical impact.
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Um, it's, it's very important, again, uh, my, my vision is that it is very important to acknowledge that this is, uh, not a US-centric initiative. This is more of a global initiative.
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Um, I'll do my best during these couple of years to, to get closer to, uh, again, professionals all over the world.
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And I'm, I'm glad, I'm glad you said that because, you know, e- e- even, uh, the CPP exam, uh, in the past, and this has changed, but in the past, people commented that some of the phraseology, some of the scenarios were US-centric, uh, in that exam, you know, and, and I think they've addressed it or, or at least they are addressing it, so it's, so it's good to have that.
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Um, I remember Ivan Ivanovic, who has come on the podcast before, um, mentioned that Mexico, he thought was a laboratory, that we could look into the world of EP in a much, uh, clearer way.
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So perhaps that transposes, uh, to Ecuador. Uh, I don't know. Um, I'd be interested... Obviously, I want to get onto standardization and that hot topic, you know.
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I'm not gonna go into diamond formation standardization just yet, but, um, is it possible to operate in different Latin countries, or is it
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just, you know, you hand off your principal at the border to someone else?
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That, that question has a relevance in the standardization question insofar as, you know, [laughs] what is equivocity, um, and, and, and, and how will an ISO standard help that?
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But, but I wonder, just for the dynamics, if I'm an operator thinking, "Right, I'm operating in Ecuador. Suddenly, someone's going to Peru. Can I go to Peru?" Or, or, or is it just very different wherever I go?
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Well, every country has its own, uh, regulations, uh, laws. So, uh, when we, when we work on the EP industry, we have to face that, uh, big and, and crucial, um, part of our, of our work.
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Yeah, we need to understand the differences in regulations, laws, and, and of course, yeah, the, the, the customs in every single, in every single country. So the, um,
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standard will be then that if you come from the UK and if you want to work in, uh, uh, or, or if you are protecting a, a, a principal, a, an executive in Argentina, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, uh, you, you can actually, uh, visit the country for sure.
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Um, unless you have a working permit, you wouldn't be, uh, officially workingReally in, in these countries.
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Um, and by the way, uh, unless you go through a lengthy, difficult process of, of being licensed and, and, and, eh, also getting a permit to, for example, carry a, a firearm, you wouldn't be able to do so. So,
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um, for the ease of, uh, of, of practicality, I would say, eh, what normally happens is that EP, eh, agents that, that come from Europe, from North America, they, they go into the country as part of the, of the entourage of the, of the principal, the executive, and they rely on local professionals like myself, eh, with the, with our licenses, with our personnel, with of course our resources, local resources to, to actually do the operation.
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Yeah? Now, uh, a big important and, and crucial part of, of, eh, executive protection will be a risk analysis and of course a, a proper, eh, advance work.
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So, um, the ones that know, uh, more about our risks, eh, in, in our countries, well, will be us.
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Eh, doesn't matter if, if you're an analyst sitting, uh, on a, on a computer somewhere else, well, there's just, uh, a limit of what you can get out of, out of a OC and then and so on. Yeah.
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So, uh, basically, having our, our boots on the ground, eh, is, is basically, uh, eh, necessary for doing these, these risk analysis. And, and of course, due diligence, you need to know who you're dealing with locally.
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Uh, and of course doing a proper advance, uh, which takes a few days and, and knowledge on, on the ground. Well, that, that has to, eh, have a big, eh, local component. And so is that why the standard is so important?
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Because especially if you're doing something really fast, you see, aha, they have this new ISO standard, I know what they're all about. Yeah.
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The way, the way we, we manage a, uh, EP detail should be somewhat standardized. Um, requirements for, for executive protection, uh, professionals, uh, should be also standardized.
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As well as, I'll say, um, general, general terms on, on, on, on operations, well, you know, a best practices should also be standardized.
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Always, always there is a local, eh, component that cannot be standardized, yeah, like laws, regulations, as well as of course the, the, the local, eh, flavor, eh, which is totally different and, and of course it goes, uh, according to, to the different countries.
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You know, even, even in the, in the US, you know, uh, I've done very little, eh, work as an, as an EP professional in the US, in the United States. Uh, normally when I go there, I, I follow the same procedure.
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I just go as a, as part of the, of the crew or, or the, or the, the, the entourage of, of the executive.
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Uh, but I, even in the United States, uh, they have, like, different regulations and different ways of doing things, uh, in, in different states. Yeah?
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So when you cross a, a state line, uh, your, your license could, will, in most cases is not good in, in a different sta- in a different state.
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Uh, even, uh, it, it will be, uh, illegal for some people to, to actually, um, continue on working, eh, as, as an EP professional, uh, while they're driving and, and they cross a state line. Yeah.
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Or, uh, carrying firearms is, is a, is a whole different story as well. So what we standardize will not be laws, will be more, eh, procedures, eh, a language. We need to have a common language.
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We need to understand each other. Yeah?
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Even though I'm, I'm speaking your language now, I'm speaking English, well, of course, uh, but we're talking about the technical, eh, part of, of, of executive protection that needs to be standardized.
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And, and, and, and I can fully see that and, and again, you know, there's, there's that other question, who's asking for this standard?
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And I remember we had, uh, James Cameron on, and I put to James, uh, and the BEP, I said, "Well, who's asking for it? Is, are customers asking for it? Are clients asking for it? Are principals asking for it?
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Are other operators asking for it?"
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So I, I guess we do want to explore that, but one really kind of positive thing about your initiative that just sprung to my mind, and maybe this is intentional, an EP operator who gets into the ASIS system
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can see themselves as part of a wider whole.
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And instead of the usual, or quote unquote, usual career path of be an operator, be a team leader, maybe set up your own, uh, firm, maybe become a consultant, I, I can see that that would help them find mentors into the world of corporate security.
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Yes. Because, because there are lots of EP professionals who don't necessarily know enough about ASIS 'cause, oh, that's, that's about, you know, a building manager. That's about corporate security.
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So i- is that intentional to try and marry these two sectors together? Yeah. Um, ASIS is all things security. And, um, you have, uh,
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communities with, with different specialties and, and there are, I believe, 32 or 36 communities right now. And, uh, and yeah.
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So, uh, first of all, the, if you, if you're looking to, to do a, a, uh, or to follow a career path-I'll say in, in ASAS we have some very interesting mentorship programs that, that can help you on that.
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So, uh, doesn't matter if you are brand new to the industry, if you are a young professional, um, you, you can actually join the excitation community and, and you will be among peers.
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And, and we are all about, uh, supporting, helping and, and of course, advising if needed. Yeah.
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Um, then of course, um, it, it is important to, to acknowledge that ASAS is more of a, of a management level and directors level organization.
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So, um, that's, that's, uh, what they, what they call, well, the, the old, the old boys', uh, type of a circle. Yeah. And, uh, and you get kind of, um, exposed to that as well.
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That's, that's an important part of, of, of ASAS. So, uh, you can get to, um, uh, actually understand what corporate security is really about, what a, a role of a security manager, uh, is really about.
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And, um, then of course, uh, a big important part of, of what you get out of ASAS is, uh, also networking and, and opportunities. Yeah.
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Uh, we're talking about, again, the, the largest member-based, uh, security organization in the world. So, uh, you will be therefore, um, able to reach people pretty much in every single country. Um,
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it's, uh, sort of a, a, a, uh, a, uh, realization where, where you, you can rely on, on people because you, we all have to follow a certain code of ethics and so on.
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And, and then there is also a basic body of knowledge that, that most certified professionals follow. So, uh, so it has these, these advantages. Yeah. Um, ASAS is not a, just a certification body.
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ASAS is not just a, a board that, that creates, uh, standards and so on. It's a lot more than that. Yeah. And, uh,
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by all means, uh, again, my, my plan is to bring ASAS more into the, into the eyes of, uh, uh, EP professionals all over the world, and vice versa also to, to attract and to create, uh, for as much as possible, uh, agreements with every single organization.
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I, I try personally to be in good terms with every single professional. Yeah. We're, we're again on the same side. The, the criminals are on the other side. Yeah.
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I think, I think that's, that's one of the really lovely things about the community is that maybe people disagree on standards, [laughs] you know, maybe they do, but at least they know they need to work together.
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Um, and at least in, in many geographies, there's enough work that they don't come into, you know, too fierce a competition with each other.
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Um, of course, yeah, there's, there's, there's areas of fierce competition in every, in every area. But let's, let's come onto it then.
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S- when we, when we talk standards, the, the thing that sets LinkedIn alight, uh, and probably Facebook, you know, is when somebody says, "Oh, it, it should be done this way. It should be done this way."
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And then someone pipes up with the overarching question, "But who's asking for these standards?" I, I, I guess, what, what, what's y- what's your take on that? 'Cause y- y- you know, what's, what's driving it?
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Obviously, it's very good to see the industry standardized, and it's very good to see licensing, uh, but, but who's asking for an ISO standard?
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Many, uh, interested parties are, are, are asking for a standardization. I'll say, uh, to begin with ourselves, yeah, professionals. Like, uh, yes, in my case, um, again, I've been, uh, 25 years in this profession.
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It took me a long while to, to understand, uh, the, the, uh, I'll say, standard way of, of, of doing EP business, uh, from a corporate, uh, point of view, uh, you know, North American, European and so on.
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So it will have saved me, uh, well, both lots and lots of, of time and, and, and, and money and so on, uh, uh, by, by leaping through that, through that, uh, learning curve and, and just going to, okay, this is what, what, what needs to be done.
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That's, that's one thing, ourselves. Yeah. Um, I say as, as individuals, and also as professionals, because you need to be able to trust your partners, you need to really be able to trust your, your vendors.
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Um, and, and standardization is a way of also setting a, I'll say a, a way of, of, uh, due diligence really, uh, among the industry. So this is very important.
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Now, um, seeing it from a company or from a corporate, uh, way of doing it, uh, by following a standard, you show that you are, uh, doing your duty of care properly, that you are fulfilling all of your, I guess, uh, due diligence, uh, in a corporate way.
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Uh, so that has also legal ramifications in case of a, of a, uh, of a situation where you have lawyers and, and, and courts and so on involved. Knowing that, uh, or letting them know that you
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did, uh, follow a standard which is, uh, uh, approved by, by peers, approved by the industry and, and even recognized by international bodies, well, is, is great. I would say that,
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um, standards are like, like having a, a, uh, a big strong, uh, uh-Tree, uh, that you just keep it very close and in case, uh, the big, uh, the big, the big, um, uh,
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storm, uh, comes, uh, well, you, you know, you can, you can always embrace it and, and, and, and you let them know that you are there. So it, it keeps you rooted and, and it keeps you safe.
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Then on the other hand, I guess also regulators, uh, in some ways, um, you know, uh, even though, uh, they will never, uh, agree on, on having a, a, a single law. Yeah.
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The way, the way you do things in the UK, uh, is totally different as, as the way government runs things in, in, in Ecuador or in Latin America, uh, as, as, as North America.
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But regulators will always, uh, be in favor of having at least some basic, um, let's say common grounds. Yeah.
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So, uh, having these common grounds, uh, also eases, I guess the, uh, the updating of, of laws, which is always very important.
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Hopefully, you know, John Lennon will be one only world and, and we'll all live in, in peace and, and so on in the future. But then I guess this, this is also, uh, something important from that, that sense. Yeah.
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Um, academia is, is always, uh, uh, something that intrigues me because, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a university professor myself, and there is absolutely, um, very little...
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Oh, I, I was about to say none, but, but almost, almost none research done on executive protection itself. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, well, that's a good point. And, and we- we've had, uh, Dr.
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Treston, uh, Wheaton, and we've had my friend, uh, Dr. Samantha Newberry from University of Salford, and they're working on the, uh, IPSP journal. They're trying to give it a, a much more academic flair.
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Um, there will be other initiatives, of course. Um, but one thing that that brought up was of, as you said, the lack of secondary literature, [laughs] but the, the, the lack of academic, uh, rigor.
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They did flag that they're working on making academia apply to operations, 'cause otherwise it's just...
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Well, it's, it's very thoughtful, but it, it can be navel-gazing in that you're, you're going, "Hmm, I, I, I was a barbarian, now I'm in the boardroom." So there's, there's that element to it.
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But going the other way around, I wonder if the standardization will give us the tools to conduct, uh, research or, or will we alra- always be hampered by the fact that, well, we're looking after ultra-high net worth individuals, so they don't really want, [laughs] they don't really want all their details and bits and bobs out there.
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Um, I, I, I guess that's, that's, that's more a poke-the-bear question, but, uh, but what do you think?
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It's, it's, it's very important to differentiate between a body of knowledge, so, so that's what you get when you write a book. Yeah. Or when you write a, I guess a guideline or, or whatever, uh, from a standard.
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So a standard is more kind of a set of minimums. Yeah. What, what is the minimum that needs to be done? And, um, part of the standard will also be, is, is agreeing on a common language. Yeah.
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Terms, definitions, which are very important. Yeah. As a, as a, as a neurolinguistic professional myself, I also say that, that words are extremely important for, for people.
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And, um, knowledge, knowledge, uh, uh, for, for the human race works on a, on a constructive way. So, uh, it's not an end, having a standard, but I'll say it's kind of a stepping stone.
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Once we have as that, uh, step, and once we have a, again, a standard, then we can, uh, go beyond and, and create many other things. Yeah. Plus of course, uh, whatever we humans do are, is not perfect.
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Yeah. It's perfectible, you know, it's not perfect.
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So, uh, even though, uh, a standard is, is a best effort run by, by people in a given point of time, uh, to, to, to set what, what is right, uh, it always needs to be improved, changed and, and, uh, again, that's, that's...
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That is the reason why I strongly believe that a organization with the history, with the resources like ASIS was created more than, well, in 1955. So it's, it's almost, well, what?
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Seventy years old now, or something like that. And, I mean, it has proven that it can withstand the, the test of time. Yeah. Um, because again, it's, it's not, it's not a sprint, uh, it is a marathon.
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And how is it, if I can ask, and if it's, you know, I don't know, how is it different to the proposed ANSI standard? Um, is, is, is it going after the same types of standardization or is it different?
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I, uh, I am very familiar with what the BEPP is doing. Uh, I, I am very familiar with the, with the content of it. Now, the BEPP is basically, uh, working more on a very operational, uh, level.
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I would say is, is, uh, as, as, as far as I know until now, they kind of work, uh, very hard on, on setting up a body of knowledge. Yeah. Which is great, just a, a lot of theory.
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Um, and yeah, that is going to be, uh, at some point, uh, turned into a standard, proper standard, and then it has to be, uh, well, it has to go through public review, and it's a big process. Yeah.
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Now, that is going to be more, I'll say, US-centric because that is an ANSI, that's a North American, uh, standard.Well, ASEAS, uh, chose to go more international right from the beginning, so we are working with ISO-ISO.
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So I'd say that that would be a, a, a big, a big difference. Um, ASEAS standard is a lot more aligned to the plan, do, check, act, uh, uh, cycle.
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Uh, again, so it's, it's more kind of compatible with every single other standard that is out there. ISO standards, I mean like, uh, ISO 18788 or, or 9001, 45001, uh, you name it. Yeah.
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So by having a, uh, again, an international ISO standard, uh, we would be able to, I guess, um,
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uh, integrate into, uh, what corporations are doing in, in their own business and, and we will be able to, uh, merge or, or say, uh, bring the, the EP part of, of, of, uh, of, uh, business into the, uh, other industries, uh, business, uh, uh, in, in a, in a nicer term, I guess.
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Yeah. So having, having it under ISO, um, yeah, I believe is, is the right way, uh, thinking in a long term and in a global way. It has its merit, by the way, BEPP is, is, and I'm a big supporter of what they're doing.
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I really believe they, they, they can, they can, uh, uh, create something which is good and will add to, to the industry. But of course, it's a different path, the one that is taken. Yeah.
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And, and, and on that sort of note of unifying and, and collaborating and reaching out, even, even if it's just for my own benefit, if everyone else in the audience knows about, uh, all these extra associations that we might wanna reach out to, then, you know, please answer us on a, on a postcard.
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But if, but if I look around, there are organizations large and small. Uh, I, I saw even, um, you know, our friends, uh, doing the Texas EP, uh, mixer, right?
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Just for Texas and, uh, and, and there was one in, uh, Alberta with a different organization as well.
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Um, and, and I remember back 2016, the first IPSB conference, uh, was sort of an attempt to, to blend, uh, existing events from Nine Lives, from EPI, from ESI, and so on.
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Uh, what organization names, uh, should we be looking at in, uh, the Latin world? Um, uh, uh, is there like the, the Peruvian AP, uh, weekly mixer? I don't know.
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[laughs] You know, what, what are these names of people we should be reaching out to in terms of organizations? Well, I'll say, um, more than, than... Well, there-- we have a number of, uh,
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local, I'll say, country, um, based organizations. Um, most of them are, uh, small or middle size. Some of them do need a lot of, uh, work on, on their own, uh, again, standardization.
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Some of them are just, um, working based on, on, on the, uh, old, uh, I'll say, uh, methods or, or ways of seeing the EP more as a, as a police or, or, or, or extension of military, uh, operations.
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Uh, EP is more, uh, again, uh, private, by the way, so, so it's, it's, it's... They're, they're not really on, on the right path. Um, there is a lot of, uh, that, that has been done in regarding regulations.
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Again, uh, Colombia is, is a very interesting, um, uh, example of it. Well, because it, it, it was, uh...
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It went, it went through a whole different, uh, set of, of, of, uh, really asking situations with, with, uh, uh, the guerrilla and so on, and, and it made the, uh, law in Colombia being very detailed, yeah, regarding what you can do, what you cannot do.
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Uh, it's, it's almost, almost, uh, asphyxiating in, in some senses because it's, it, it gives you basically every single detail of what you need to do. Um, again, Argentina is an interesting place to, to see.
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Um, they are doing a lot regarding, uh, operational, uh, type of training, um, which is great, is good, but it's, it's, uh, it's not really what, what you do work, uh, or what you do mostly in your work, which is more of a, of a technical nature.
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I'm, I'm more of a big proponent of, of risk analysis and, again, due diligence and, and, and doing your field work, yeah, which is the most important part. Uh, Mexico. Mexico is very varied.
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There, there are a number of, uh, small organizations. Uh, they have a large event, which is great. The, the, uh, the ET event, which is run by, by, um...
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And actually, right now, this year, they're going to, they're going to, uh, have a collaboration with the IPSB, so sort of IPSB in Mexico, uh, you know, that's, that's what's going to happen over there.
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Um, so yeah, there are a number of, um, I'll say, uh, country-specific organizations. I wouldn't, uh, like to kind of name any specific one 'cause we're talking about 22 different countries.
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[laughs] So if I name anyone- You'll, you'll, you'll miss them out and they'll say, "Why didn't you mention me?" [laughs] Exactly.
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But anyway, um, and just as, as, as a matter of fact, uh, if anyone that is, is listening to this, uh, podcast, uh, wants to, uh, uh, perhaps, uh, suggest a collaboration between the ASEAS EPC and any, uh, organization, again, not only in Latin America, but worldwideUm, I'm all ears.
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Uh, I'll, I'll be more than happy to, again, uh, try to, to get as close to, to, to, uh, yeah, as, as one on the industry really, yeah. Well, perfect. Yeah, that's, that's absolutely what our listeners should do.
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'Cause, yes, y- we do have many listeners that are specifically from North America and Europe, yet we know when we see [chuckles] the stats, we have, uh, Latin, uh, listeners, African listeners, Asian listeners, um, and, uh, and of course A- Australasia as, as well.
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So, so, so absolutely people should reach out.
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Um, I'd b- I'd be interested to see on the Asian side, just, uh, a few sessions ago we, we had a focus on China and, uh, so- some of the challenges [chuckles] of being an EP operative in China and some of the things you're definitely not allowed to do.
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But hey, that has to be built into the community too. That has to be built into the standard. So I'd really, uh, be, be interested in that.
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I'm, I'm very much looking forward to seeing what the EP Summit, uh, does this year. And, uh, if not before next January, I'm looking forward to welcoming you, Kevin, in person to the next London event in January.
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I think, I think we're gonna have to find an opportunity before then, but, uh, but I think it will be, it will be good. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll be honored to be there, by the way. Yeah. Fantastic.
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And, and it's gonna be the 30th of January, because we're always the week after Davos, and because the way the year [chuckles] is structured, it means that we're on the 30th of January, 2025.
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Um, ne- never too late to get in your diary. [chuckles] Um, but good. Well, Kevin, thank you very much, and I, and I appreciate this is a blend of topics.
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Um, we are very interested to see what your work with the ISO standard brings, what your work with the, uh, community within ASIS, uh, brings.
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But it was also lovely to hear your thoughts on, uh, the region, the Latin region. I call it LATAM, but you, you, you gave me some food for thought calling it the Latin region, 'cause, you know, hadn't appreciated that.
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Um, what's, what's next for you, Kevin? Where can we next find you? Well, um, uh, you can find me virtually. Uh, I'm, I used to... Well, I am very, uh, active on LinkedIn, so you can find me as, as, uh, Coach Seguida.
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That's my, my, my name over there. Well, you can, we can put a link here so it would be easier for, for anyone to, to reach me there.
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Um, I am very active, of course, uh, on, uh, on, on championing for security officers, that's operational level security officers, through the International Foundation for Protection Officers.
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So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm also doing a lot of, uh, I guess, uh, voluntary work on, on, uh, on helping, I'll say, uh, these forgotten soldiers, which are the ones that are doing, uh, the boots on the ground really work, uh, uh, night shifts and so on.
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Um, yes, I am going to be, uh, very active, uh, as, as part of the EPC.
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By the way, um, on the February 15th, yeah, uh, that will be, I guess, next week, we're going to have a, uh, a get-together for the EP community. By the way, this meeting is not exclusive, yeah?
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I, I want this to be, uh, a very, uh, I'll say, open, um, invitation to, to anyone in the industry that may want to join us. Uh, we're going to discuss about these, uh, high-profile attacks that happened worldwide.
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We want to give it a, a, uh, kind of a global, uh, overview of what happened in, in Europe, what's, what happened in, in, uh, in Asia, Latin America, North America regarding political figures.
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So, uh, we're gonna have a panel discussion on, on the 15th. You're welcome, by the way, and, and please, uh, please share it in, in your, in your, in your social networks. Uh, we welcome everyone to join.
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Um, and after that, well, we have a few plans for, for the year, including, uh, these quarterly, uh, events. We're gonna have some events in, in Spanish language as well.
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Um, and we want to be, uh, present as part of the EPC on every single, uh, EP specific event, uh, around the world. So, uh, I'm just open for any invitation.
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Yeah, if you're running an event, I'll, I'll try to, well, do my best to be in all of them. Fantastic. Well, that's, that's a challenge. Yes, uh, you're gonna get all the invitations now.
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Um, uh, but, uh, but definitely from, from, uh, from me and from us. Um, well, Kevin, thank you very much for coming on. Thanks for, you know, telling us about your, your, your new mission.
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Um, I hope this spurs some meaningful debate and, uh, it's been a pleasure dropping in on Ecuador and the Latin region as well. So Kevin, thank you very much.
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This has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit Magazine podcast. [rock music] Well, thank you very much, Kevin.
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And, you know, so pleased that we caught you as you, you know, move into that new position, and I'm sure some fantastic leadership we will, uh, see. I'm back with Elijah Shaw.
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Um, Elijah, what did you make of today's session? Pretty, pretty far-reaching, pretty broad-ranging, but what are, what are your thoughts?
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So as I mentioned, uh, I didn't know Kevin, but it was great to kind of get a sense of his take, uh, on all of these different issues and, uh, I think our listeners will find benefit from it.
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And that's the amazing thing about The Circuit.
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We interview people from all over the world, literally, and, uh, and from different backgrounds, and we're able to kind of take that and, uh, and present that, uh, and package that, uh, in a way that just at the, literally at the tip of your finger, you can, uh, you can get some additional insight on our industry.
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Mm-hmm.Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for, for, for joining us, Kevin. What about you, Elijah? What's next for you? All right, so what's next for me? Um, well, this has been a busy one.
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In fact, uh, listeners might have noticed I haven't been, uh, you haven't been able to hear my, uh, wonderful voice on the podcast as much of late because, uh, I've been very active with an operation that's been going on for the last several months.
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That's actually winding down to the end, so I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel and, uh, and I'm kind of plotting out what's happening next for, uh, the spring and the summer.
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Um, for me, that's gonna include, uh, trying to get another training course out, and then there's a couple conferences I'm gonna speak at.
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I'll probably hold on those announcements for right now, but, uh, but hopefully by next episode, I'll be able to, to kind of give some specific dates, times, and locations. Well, when you know, let me know.
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I'm looking forward to it, and I know our community really appreciates your courses. Um, well, moving forward, for, for me, this, uh, this coming next week, I will be at ASIS European Vienna.
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If you're around, please do say hello. I know that there's gonna be a good IS-- IPSB showing. There's, there'll be an IPSB mixer. Thomas Geppert has sent something out.
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I know ASIS Europe, ASIS UK is also having a mixer, as is WIS, Women in Security. Brittany Galley, I think, is organizing something. There's just something for everyone. Um, so if you, uh, are going, please do say hello.
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There are a few WhatsApp groups people can join and, and so on. And of course, uh, do let us know in the BBA Connect, uh, app or the NABA Connect app because that keeps us all together as we, uh, you know, move around.
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As always, we're looking for more contributors to the magazine. I know that, uh, some of our latest podcast guests have written articles, which is great news and, uh, and I, I'm really looking forward to that.
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And I want to have more sessions with Elijah. That's what, that's what I want. So I'm, uh, I'm, I'm very much looking forward to next few editions. This has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit Magazine podcast.
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