Behavioural Analysis and Risk Factors for Children | Sandra Adiarte

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Because they need to understand there is a game, and to the game there is the rules, and we have to stick to the rules, especially when it comes to protecting, that at some point the game will end.
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[rock music] Welcome to The Circuit magazine, the number one source of information on protection matters. The industry-leading magazine for all security professionals who want to stay ahead of the game.
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Behavioral analysis and risk factors for children.
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Today, Sean West and myself are delighted to be speaking with Sandra Addiate, uh, the founder of Apollo Synergetics, a consultant from Germany focusing on behavioral analytics training and consultancy in this area.
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Lovely, uh, to, to focus on this topic, Sean. Um, why is it so important?
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Well, I'm looking forward to this one because I, I actually met Sandra at the ninth annual CP Technology Forum, which was, a- again, we mentioned it, you know, a great event. It was great to bump into her. It's...
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It was the first time she'd been to the event, but she was really interesting actually, and I could totally see the value in the training that could be delivered on that front about, you know,
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finding the right people, putting them in the right places. 'Cause when... Soon as you... if you're working as a bodyguard for a family, things can get extremely emotive, right, when it, where it surrounds children. Um,
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and some of the, uh, I think some of the things that we'll talk about within the podcast is some of the family, high net worth families who maybe have been born into money potentially, and they've grown up,
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maybe they don't have all the, haven't lived life like say you or I have, so maybe they don't have, they have a different view of the world to us, and we have different views on life. We have different skills,
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and we need to be able to... B- With, with a family office you have, you have to have thick skin, right?
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You know, when you work with high net worth individuals, there's a lot of time where what, when you're doing what is the correct thing to you is not the correct thing to them, and sometimes you can take a lot of incoming, and it's, it's being able to deal with that, and some of the tools that Sandra can give you can help you c- navigate them waters more easily.
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But, uh, surely there'll be operators out there saying, "Well, a, a gig is a gig is a gig. Um, I'm not there to be a nanny." Um, b- but, but surely there's a happy medium.
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Um, may- maybe the way you speak to the child, or, or, you know, c- can you command the child? I mean, th- these are big questions. Mm-hmm.
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No, y- y- you're absolutely right, and no, you're, you're not there to be a nanny, but you are there to provide a service to that family or that principal, looking after the child, and if you can improve your skills in areas in whatever it may be, yes, situational awareness, the way you speak to the chi- the way you speak to the parents, you know, you're there as a professional.
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Y- you need to talk to them as a professional. You're not a friend. You're not a paid friend. You're there as a bodyguard delivering a service, and any tools that you can
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take on board to improve that service, we, we should be looking at. I like it. And yeah, this, this will be a great string to our bow in the magazine.
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Obviously we're bringing the pages of the magazine to life, so hopefully we'll get some fantastic articles, uh, inside the magazine on this topic too.
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Um, our, as, uh, you know, new generations are investing in the next generation, as, as we heard at the event, you know, there, there, there is, uh, more focus than ever on the shape and content, uh, you know, delivered to that sort of generation alpha, as it were.
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Um, anyway, we don't need to get into the generations just yet. Let's look at this, uh, behavioral analysis risk factors for children with Sandra Addiate.
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[rock music] And now let's meet one of the contributors to The Circuit magazine.
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Behavioral analysis, risk factors for children.
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Sean West and myself are delighted to welcome Sandra Addiate, c- a consultant from Germany, founder and, uh, owner of Apollo Synergetics, who is a trainer and consultant focusing on behavioral analytics.
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Uh, Sandra, lovely to have you on. How are you doing? Oh, thank you very much for having me. I'm very excited. How are you guys doing?
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Yes, we're doing very well actually, but up north in the UK it's absolutely freezing, so I'm not enjoying the weather so much. Well, let's focus then not on weather, but on children.
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But before we do that, what is the problem we're trying to solve? We are trying to solve the complex problem of understanding behaviors in context.
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So when we're, uh, protectors, when we are, um, doing security management around any kind of individual in a team, we, um, are really trained, we get trained in, um, analyzing all relevant aspects in mitigating risks and avoiding threats.
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Um, and these can be tremendously influenced by all components that are, you know, um, in the situation involving the individuals as well as situational aspects, as, as we all know, and, um, the behavioral aspects, um, are a key component because we need, we should be ahead of the curve identifying the threat or the risks, um, you know, before they actually make things go sideways.
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Fantastic. No, that makes sense, and it's great everyone, uh, cares about their, their children, or at least, uh, our principals do. Um, w- what about you?
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Uh, obviously we're delighted to have you on the podcast, but, but where does your passion for this area come from? Hmm. Mm, I have been working around people of different age groups for over 30 years of my life.
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So I have been, uh, teaching, um, movement, um, and all sorts of different kinds of things in-You know, age groups that are really, really relevant for this, uh, for understanding this complex matter, and, um, adding on the movement analysis and the psychology and the research in behavioral analyses kind of makes it a very complex analysis tool to understand these complex situations.
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So the passion in it is really that for me, being a former dance educator and mover, understanding movement on a muscular level, or fascial level if you will, is very, uh, normal to me.
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So for me, [laughs] anything that I see is movement, and anything that I see and is movement to me is describable, and then also trainable to anybody who is interested in, um, enhancing their observational skills in relation to their profession.
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Fantastic, and that's an interesting combination, uh, dance and, uh, and, and, and, and risk management. We'll get into that. We'll get into that. But, uh, what about the completely uninitiated protector?
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Perhaps they're a solo practitioner, perhaps they are- Mm... uh, simply quote unquote doing their job. Uh, what should they better understand about this, but particularly in relation to children?
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Well, it all starts, um, with asking yourself, do you like children? Um, so a part of the whole thing would be the self, um, it'll... self, uh, you could say exploration, I would call it.
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You know, being aware of your own biases when it comes to dealing with children in certain age groups, this is how it starts.
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And, um, it is important that, um, somebody understands at an early stage that the attitude of a child, the age of a child, the psychophysical aspects of the behavior of the child can influence tremendously how you can work with a principal or the child or a complex detail with a whole team,
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and that, um, the risk fas- factors rise, they just go up with you not managing parts and components of those things professionally.
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So you need to be aware of the implications of developments, uh, physical and cognitive.
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You need to be aware of the capabilities of children, how they can cope, how the bonding behavior is between the principal and the child, and, um, there are several other components that are really, uh, important to look at, but the most important thing is that you take time to take a moment and really evaluate those in relation to yourself.
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Re- really interesting actually, Sandra.
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I, I mean, in my background in the security industry, I've worked with children of all ages, and exactly what you said, the age, developmental stage that they're at can bring so many different factors.
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I mean, you've got, if you've got really young ch- children, you've got, you know, the tantrums and the everything that comes, but that also, it can throw the principal off his, his day because it puts him in a frantic
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s- s- peace of mind. Um, but then you've got the teenage and all of the things that come with that. When you're looking after a young teenage girl and they wanna go out and they're meeting boys, and, you know,
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they want to carry on, do things that maybe their parents wouldn't approve of, and you as a bodyguard stuck in the middle of that, you, you're kind of on that knife edge, right, of how do I deal with this situation?
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And definitely having some training in this sort of situational awareness, behavioral analysis- Mm... will give you some more tools i- in dealing with these situations, right? Exactly.
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And also, um, another component which I'm sure is already a, a vital part of the training of, um, protectors as well is the im- the legal implications that come with failing.
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So, you know, security management around children smack, um, it's, it says children in there, but I'm including the teenagers, meaning that, um,
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if, you know, one of those girls or boys falls in love with you, [laughs] you know, and but you still need to manage, you know, how, how the detail goes, you need to be aware of the implications if you fail to communicate to the team, uh, you know, correctly.
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And so it's also about, you know, securing yourself, if you will, in a way, to be aware of how, how, uh, how concrete, uh, do you need to, uh, guide and lead certain aspects of communication in order to be clear with the implications for everyone involved.
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And it might even be I cannot be the one doing this, we have to rotate the team, or guess what, you know, I'm out all, all the way, uh, unfortunately. I have huge experience of this as well, where- Mm...
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definitely where the family, you know, the child gets attached to one of the bodyguards, and they really, you know, "I want Sean. I want Sean every, you know, every day.
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I want him to do the school run," or whatever it may be.
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And it becomes a problem when, you know, the, the guy that they're attached to, and then, you know, on the following Wednesday, John has to come in to, to rotate with this guy, right? Mm.
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And the family's like, "Oh no, you can't leave because Susie wants you." Yes. And it causes these thi- it causes rifts in the team because
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obviously team members can feel, you know, I'm not wanted, they worry for their job. Mm. But also it puts pressure on the guy who is favored and, you know, it's, it's, it's great to be liked.
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However, you know, the impact over a long period of time, it's, you know, things like Christmases and family holidays, it's all of a sudden you're wanted for them as well, so you're not getting that time off.
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And I think it's a bit of a, it's, it's a bit of education to the family that, you know, people need to be rotated to keep fresh, alert, you know, on top of their game. But also it's,
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it's having good professional boundaries as a protector as well, 'cause some people,
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maybe if they're new to the industry and they say, "Oh, getting really liked here by this child, and it's gonna get me in with the family," they kind of run with that.
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And I think the one thing you can never forget, you are always a staff member, right? You, you are not family. And I've seen so many people get caught up in that, where they become, they think, "I'm the favorite." Mm.
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But it will always come back-You know, blood is thicker than water. The, it, it might just be a child
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is, I don't know, chasing a ball, she trips over on the curb, hits her head, and all of a sudden you're no longer the favorite, and you're out of the job. Mm-hmm.
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Um, so it's, if you've got the professional boundaries and it's, you are rotating, you are alert, you are... You know, it just keeps everything right. It's black and white. You're there to provide a service.
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Yes, of course, you, you can become fond of the child, fond of the family, but yet they're not paying you to be a friend, they're paying you to deliver a service, a provided job.
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And another thing is important, um, that just adds on and links in very nicely to what you just said, is the implications of culture.
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So if, you know, you have, um, a family, um, that is, um, you know, from a completely different continent altogether, and they're running their family business, let me call it like that, in a certain way, and there's certain hierarchy going on, you might not have a saying in a lot of things, and the feel of not having a say might be very different to what you're used to.
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[laughs] So you are basically really treated like a servant. Yeah? Yeah. And, um, although you might see another approach, for example, to the child might be better,
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uh, or specifically when it comes to managing, you know, how to get from A to B, what to have in the rucksack in case of, you know, something goes sideways, what we need to pack, what we need to have on the detail and things like that, you know, it might just really cause friction, just like you described, uh, in between the, the, the client, uh, the principal, the, the whole family system, uh, in between, and it's, it's unfortunate, but the groups of ma- females and males.
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[laughs] So it just goes... It gets more complicated from there. Yeah.
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I mean, the culture is, is a massive thing, and I think with any family you're going to work with, you need to spend a bit of time, right, and learn a bit about that culture, because you'll be making decisions based on, I guess, how you live your life, how you brought your children up, and what's right for you may not be right for that principal and their family.
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I mean, I've, I've seen, you know, where the principals are so...
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It's almost an unnatural behavior surrounding their children where they're going into a secure school that has security and gated grounds, and they say, "Right, we want the bodyguard to go in there and sit outside the class and sit."
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You know, and trying to have these conversations with the family and say, "Look, if the school thinks your child is at, at that much threat, they're just not gonna allow your child into the school." You know,
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there's, they've got, done their own risk assessments, they've got their own security, and if you start freaking that school out, you know, your daughter's, your daugh- your son or your daughter's gonna stand out as well.
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Who's this strange guy standing outside all of the time when she's in school? So it's, it's having a bit of... You need to be there to, to sanity check, you know, these,
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you know, principals and family members as well, and sometimes it's, it's, it's really tough, right? Because it, it's work for you. You don't wanna, you don't wanna lose your job, you don't...
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But it's, it's, it's having them professional boundaries. They're paying you for a service- Mm-hmm... not a friendship, and sometimes you have...
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Us being aware of their culture, I think also there needs to be a bit of, they need a, if they're in our country, they're in our school system, but there needs to be a bit awareness of I, I guess, the British culture as well.
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Um, you know, it, it may be fine in another country where you haven't got the bodyguard sitting outside the classroom all of the time, um,
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where it's a bit different here, and it might ring some alarm bells that maybe they don't want, they don't want rising. But yeah, no, it's, it's really interesting. Mm-hmm. Sure.
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Two more points need to be mentioned, which are also really key elements that need to be addressed. One is, um, some sort of, uh, former physical or psychological trauma. So either, you know,
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living somewhere among this family or even the child or even a troubled mind of the client. So this is why I also, uh, you know, offer a consultation, because I'm a therapist.
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So I'm, I'm really also concerned about identifying the behavioral aspects or behavioral components of identifying personalities that might have a troubled mind.
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So, um, because this can just, um, escalate situations in such a way that, that they're almost uncontrollable, and for you it happens, you know, the observer, and it just happens so fast, you know.
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Even, I mean, the one that you're protecting is going crazy, that's a whole different level. You expect some, somebody from the outside probably attacking your client, but not the other way around. Yeah.
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[laughs] Well, [laughs] it's funny you should say that, you know, and we're talking about having experience of these things. And
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o- o- one thing I've found, and I don't know what your experience or how you found it, Sandra, but when you've been born into the wealth,
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you, you, you haven't created the wealth, you've been born into this wealth, so you've, you've, you've grown up as a child, you've, you know, potentially you've never been told no.
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You've had everything you've ever wanted.
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And then as soon as you go to a school and you start, your teacher's saying no, and all of a sudden there's the tantrums, you get upset, you come back, tell your parents, "I don't like this teacher," or, "I don't like this school."
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And then you have almost, you can have the unnatural behavior of the pa- "Okay, right, we're gonna change the school."
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And I've seen that where they've moved them to another school, and then they went to another school, and this almost, you know, this...
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In my mind, this is no good for the child because they can't settle, they've got no roots, and this behavior goes into life. So when they get to
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teenagers and they get to, you know, into their late teens, twenties, and I've worked with people who are in their thirties but they're almost still like a teenager because they haven't
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learned lessons that normal people would learn whilst they're growing up, because they've never been told no. They've had cotton wool wrapped around them all their lives.
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And exactly what you've just said, you can have...
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I've had cases where we're protecting the principal from outside factors, and then all of a sudden it's you're protecting the principal from thems- themselves, you know, just-Self, self-erupting and getting themself into so much trouble, and it's because they haven't learnt the skills how to not, not...
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Yeah, communicate maybe. Um, just interacting with people, they don't have- Mm... them skills. They're very well educated but lack some, I don't know, common sense maybe sometimes.
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It is resilience and coping strategies because, you know- Coping strategies, yes. Exactly. That's the one. That's the one. Um, you know, this is the... And, and this is the, the other point that I wanted to mention.
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You know, this after pandemic phase and this, this, you know, economic kind of turmoil and the, the, the, the, let's say, the situation that the world is in at this very moment, you know, you know, it brings a certain, certain sen- sensitivities around how we sense and feel our security around us, you know, if we are happy with how it feels or not, you know.
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And obviously, it's, it's a little bit challenging at the moment. And for the people that grew up in, uh, peace, for them, [laughs] uh, they're somehow losing it although nothing happened yet here maybe where we are.
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You know, we see, uh, you know, things happening in other parts of the world, but it affects us because we are flooded with images and the, and the pictures.
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Now, the question is how do you cope on a daily basis with the challenges that you have? Well, if you're not challenged, guess what? You're not gonna learn how to cope. Yeah.
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And then of course you, you, you don't want to challenge a child, uh, and this really depends on the age group, and it depends on how we bond with our children, and it depends on what kind of approach and culture I have, you know.
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This is a whole complex discussion right here. But if this friction and the challenge and the support is not put into the system in order to help the child develop their own coping strategies,
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um, and also fail, because we need to fail in order to learn, unfortunately.
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But the problem is, um, okay, to finish that sentence, if we don't do that, w- the, the challenge is that, you know, they don't learn these kind of skills. They don't have these kind of skills.
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And, um, I just recently commented on a post, um, showing, uh, a tried abduction at the entrance of this shopping, um, s- shopping mall or something, and you can see from the, the way the, the guy was trying to p- uh, pick up the child, the mother intervened, and she picked up the child.
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You can see that this reaction in the body is like a wet cat, so that the reaction of the child is complete giving in into the safe, safe, uh, safeguarding of the mother.
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The mother is, you know, pulling this child away, and nothing happened, thank God.
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But I'm just saying in different age groups, the reactions of the body, I'm talking about the body, and then of the mind, and then of the child or the teen will be completely different because, let's go jump to the teen, it might just happen that in the teenage age, I'm not moving.
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You can shout as much as you want, but just because I like saying no now, you know, and I have my own personality, I'm not moving just to make your blood pressure go up.
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So [laughs] um, this is something that is really, really problematic because it takes a very direct and open communication in between all parties involved or professional teammates that just know how to run this show.
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They just kind of need to know how work around those things because the parents might not want to challenge the child.
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The parents don't want this kind of friction, so you as the professionals need to know how to set up the team, how to talk to all involved, how to bring those risks to the awareness of the client in order to s- to do what you are paid for to, uh, secure the client, to, you know, protect.
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Yeah, d- it, it's really interesting actually. And what you said there, picking the right people for the right job I think is very important.
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Um, you know, I've worked with great guys who don't have kids, but they've been fantastic with the families they've worked for because they've had the right temperament. Um,
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but yeah, putting the right person, the, the wrong person in the job with kids can be, can be completely futile. And I think what we need a lot of the time is, is also what you said there. Sometimes the parents
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don't want to be the one to discipline the children, and that's fine. And if that's the case, what they have to give is the support to
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the bodyguards, the nannies, whoever it may be, so when they're telling their daughter, "No, you can't cross the road at this time," or whatever it may be, "Y- you can't be drinking," you're 13 year old, or what- whatever it might be, they require the support from them parents to be able to make them decisions.
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But what I find in a lot of security teams, and it's again, diff- difficult situations people get put in, when you're the one who's now on duty and you're seeing the child doing whatever they're doing,
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and I've seen people just turn their back, you know, and they're, "Oh, I don't wanna be the one to raise it because it's gonna put the spotlight on me." Mm-hmm. And when that is the case, you are not doing your job. Mm.
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You, you have to highlight these behaviors. And yes, it puts you in a difficult situation, but that is what you're paid [laughs] to be there for, right?
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You're there for the care of the children on behalf of that principal. Um, so you have to make these difficult decisions, and that's why, you know, you get paid good money as a bodyguard.
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You have to be able to step up when the time requires. But, but Sean, and maybe this is just, you know, devil's advocate or outside person looking in, sh- surely, uh, uh, many, many listeners will say,
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"Yes, super communication skills with children would be amazing, but, but how? And, and, and how do I speak to a toddler?" You know, "How do I speak to a teenager? What, do I have to use baby language suddenly?
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Like, h- how's that gonna look professionally?" And I know, um, you know, Sandra, you, you, you have many, many different hats, and, um, even, even the word Synergetics within your, your company speaks- Mm...
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to w- win-win. Um, is this more about forming that win-win relationship? But then how do you avoid being the buddy guard? Like, [laughs] you know, like I, my, my new buddy who's five years old.
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[laughs] Like, h- h- how does that work?Hmm. It's a very good question.
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Well, uh, the, the parts that you've mentioned are really relevant because, again, you need to know that a toddler has a different, um, number of words available as compared to a 13-year-old.
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So, you know, the numbers are somewhere between thousands and ten, and hundred thousands at the age of 17 or 18, so this is really relevant what you're just mentioning.
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And, um, um, it is true that in certain situations, uh, when children of certain ages are involved, I don't to- talk to the child at all.
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I have to talk to the nanny or I have to talk to the mother or the principal involved, which means, again, this is trainable. I tell you once, you know you never make a mistake again.
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So these kind of things that you're mentioning is really something that you would learn on the course. You would then know when you leave the course which, um...
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how you identify where the child is in the develop- developmental ch- stage, and what might be the best approach in order to get your, um, the task or whatever you need to communicate across, um, whether you have to communicate to the child direct.
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It might be you have to do a command, no questions. We're don't asking, we're not asking questions.
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We're giving, we're giving, you know, uh, information or we're giving task or we're giving commands because, um, otherwise, if I come into an argument or a conversation, then, you know, the time's just running and we haven't moved.
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So it really depends on the situation, depends on the task, and it is trainable. And how?
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Well, um, I would like to avoid the phase of trial and error by teaching you how to identify the behaviors that are relevant and how to approach the certain, um, elements of tasks that you need to address at certain age groups.
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Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's a really good question, Pele, and I, it's, it's... W- what you said, you know, how do you avoid becoming, I don't know, a bodyguard, you know, something like that.
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I've seen that with, with the drivers as well, where the child loves Driver A, and I want, only want him to drive me, and they hold on.
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And it i- it's all about that, you know, that professional barrier that you've gotta put in between yourself. Of course, you can speak like a child, and you can build rapport. We have to do that.
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But there, there is also the line that, you know, please don't cross that line. I'm here to do a job for you, and it, you know it, and there is times where you've gotta speak to the parents. And, but there's also that
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line where maybe the parents or some of the people, as we just spoke about earlier, could be ones that, that have been born into the wealth as well, so they haven't had, they haven't had them coping strategies, and they haven't had learned life- Mm...
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like maybe you or I have.
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And because they haven't coped with things themself, when they see their son or their daughter getting upset, it's all, they're throwing their arms around, and it becomes almost a- an erratic behavior. And- Mm-hmm...
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when you're doing something that's, like you said, right for you, and you think you know it's right for the child, it's not always right for that particular family and principal. And, you know, you...
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I, I've seen guys losing jobs for doing absolutely the right thing. Child's in danger. They've informed the parents. But because the child was crying, it's, "Right. Get rid of him. She no longer likes him."
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And it's, you know, it's, it's a sad, it, it's a sad situation when that happens, but unfortunately, unfortunately it's the world we live in, and it's the profession we've chosen, and...
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But yeah, if you can get some more training in these sort of elements and how to limit your exposure- Mm-hmm... have some more tools in the box- Mm-hmm... I don't see any reason why anyone wouldn't take that up. Mm-hmm.
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Um, another thing that links nicely into what you cha- uh, said, just said is that organizing behaviors, understanding behaviors,
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leading, and professional management of teams also involves knowing the skill set of your other team members. So
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if I get into the situation, I'm imagining this could happen, the child gets really attached to me, but we need to move now, we need to go, something's happening, whatever, it might just be that one look that you give to your colleague or the nanny or the principal, whoever is there in the situation, that knows when you give this look- Mm-hmm [laughs]
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... or when you do, do the certain sign code that you have decided on, then, you know, now, you know, the game is over. And this is something that is, I, I, I, you know...
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By teaching so many individuals over so many decades, this is something that is always the challenge,
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and understandable challenge, in between the comm, uh, communication between the trainer, the protector, the s- the, the, the teacher, the whatever you wanna call it, and the parent,
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'cause they need to understand there is a game, and to the game, there is the rules. And we have to stick to the rules, especially when it comes to protecting, that at some point the game will end. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
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And this is something that nobody, I guess nobody, even including me, you know, if, if somebody tells me, "Ah, yeah, you cannot do this today," of course I'll be upset if I really like doing it.
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But [laughs] when it comes to protection, this is where the story ends, and this is just something that then again is a miscommunication in between the team members or towards the client, which then needs to be addressed, uh, in a different way.
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So, so Sandra, how then do you, you know, reconcile that with actually communicating a threat?
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So, uh, Sean mentioned before, you know, bodyguard, uh, outside the classroom, and, you know, if, if the threat's really that real, then there's, there's, there's big things going on.
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But, I mean, imagine, yeah, the threat is that real. Someone is likely to waltz into a school and nick, you know, steal your kid.
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How do you, how do you communicate that without f- frightening them too much?Well, you're talking to a German, uh, emancipated woman, which is gonna answer you, you have to communicate it directly.
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Unfortunately, there is just a level of threat where we have to communicate directly and where we have to say, "Okay, listen, in order to keep this space safe and to keep this child s- uh, safe, the best thing would be to do this."
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Now, of course, we're talking about an, uh, educational environment, y- so probably you cannot put armed guards in the front, yeah?
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So then it needs to be broken down to the level of, uh, protection that can be used under the circumstances of the certain space that we're talking about.
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But other than that, you have to communicate it directly to the people that are responsible for, um, you know, uh, being the ones, uh, in charge, uh, in the space. And, I mean,
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there's one thing, it's one thing to have a person sitting in front of a classroom wearing a suit and a headset and, you know, all of that, but it might also be, um, you know, somebody looking like a janitor.
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So a- a- I'm not saying y- pull out all your costumes, but I'm saying if we have a certain situation, again, we need to sit together and communicate how do we make this happen in this certain space.
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And I'm sure a lot of professionals that are out there are gonna say, "Listen, I'm not changing clothes just because something..." [laughs] And I would even understand that.
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But again, we're talking, uh, about potential harm or scars or trauma for a child that also needs to cope with having people, you know, paying attention to them all the time. So it is tricky.
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I'm not saying it's easy, but again, this is why it needs discussion, this is why it needs consultation, thought, and then the question: What is manageable? What is feasible? Mm-hmm.
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I think, I think you're totally right. Anything where there's surrounding a threat to the children, it, it's gonna be direct to the parents, the principal, and say, "Look, this is what we're aware of."
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They'll be aware of things through their channels, and you have a direct conversation between you. You're there as the professional. You're giving them advice and tools and options.
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Ultimately, it's gonna come down to them, what they want to do. Maybe they're... You've got a great principal and they, they take everything on board, and they really value y- your opinion, and
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they go with what you're saying. Or you might have someone who's maybe erratic. It's their child, you know, and they go way beyond what is, I don't know, what's the word? Non-erratic. Um, pl- plausible. You know? Mm-hmm.
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They say, "No, I want armed guards for my children outside the school, this X, Y, and Z." You know, and it, ultimately it'll come down to the children, but that direct communication between the security professional
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who's delivering it, educating them, and it, it just depends on what stage of development they're in as well, the parents. Like we said, you know,
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if they're open to suggestions and information, they'll make some, you know, some good decisions. But maybe they don't, and they are the boss and they are telling you what you have to do, and then it's down to you
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to work with what you've got, right? To provide that safe environment. Um, you're there to give the tools. Whether they choose to take them or not
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is, is, is down to them, and you can w- you can only work with what you've got.
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But are you, are you also giving those tools to the butler, to the nanny, and then when, when, when, when does that become like a ha- hang on, uh, o- overreach?
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[laughs] Like, you know, uh, you're, you're, you're adding a lot of value, you know, training the whole team, but, but like where, where does that stop? I, I don't think it does stop.
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I think when, if there was a child at threat
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for a particular family, everyone surrounding that family, and it would be butlers, drivers, everybody, would've had some form of brief training, whatever it may be, in situational, situational awareness when they're coming to the property, when they're leaving the property.
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Um, anything surrounding the family, anything that looks out of place, they would've been spoken to and told, "This needs to be fed up the chain immediately."
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So there will be, you know, they're not gonna go be taking them in doing bodyguard course or whatever it may be, but there will be some form of briefing with the relevant staff members for sure if there's a, you know, a real threat to that family.
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And also the question is, and this then links to personality, the question is: Are you a type of person that wants to know, or you rather not know? Like, you want somebody else to take care of the problem. Mm-hmm.
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So [laughs] when it comes then to team members, I mean, if you are, have been signed up for a detail to be the protector, it's very clear you gotta know in order to work around it.
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But, you know, the nanny is not probably very happy to know that there is something going on, or that the servants in the house or other people, you know, on the property, they might be like, "Oh, my God.
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What's going on now," you know? "I wanna go home now. I wanna leave. I wanna escape as soon as I can." So it, it is really also a question of mindset, if you will, or, um, or personality.
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The question, do you want to know in order to be ahead of the curve? And this is something that I would choose. I'm talking just about myself right now. I would always prefer to be ahead of the curve.
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Um, it, it might really lead to probably thinking in too much detail [laughs] or thinking from a lot of different perspectives, but in my understanding, this is what makes it rich and what also gives, uh, the team, uh, a better, um, and versatile view on a complex issue that we then can decide together on.
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So this is why this approach is still, uh, important, I think. Yeah. I, I think it goes back to the start.
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I, I know we were talking about security operatives at the start and getting the right people for the right position, but I think that carries across the board.
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If you're working in a family environment-One of the things I have learnt, you have to have really thick skin because, you know, there is gonna be times when you're getting shouted at, maybe even things thrown at you.
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You know it... I've, I've seen it happen. It's... You, you've gotta have thick skin, and you be able to... You have to take things on the chin, and I think one of the things that
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I've always tried to be, you know, when I've employed guys who've worked with families, is you, you've gotta be a really strong line manager. So if
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the family really loves John or they really love whoever, you, you have to try and educate them, "Look, you can't have John 24/7, days a week. If you keep John,
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you know, this amount of time, you're not gonna have John for much longer because he has a family that he has to go back to. He has to have his time out holiday, whatever it is." And I see my chief role really [laughs]
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when working with some of these families, it's almost as, excuse the language, a shit deflector, that you have to go there and literally... Because the guys are in such a position where sometimes they can't speak out.
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You know, they've got the relationship with the child, they can't...
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with the family, and sometimes it's gotta be someone above the umbrella just going in there and saying, "Look," trying to give some sanity to the family and say, "Look, you can't have this guy for this. He's away.
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He's ch-... You know, he's just lost his mother or his father. He has to go." It, the... Life happens around, you know, it's, it's not just their life that's going on here.
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Everyone, life is just churning all the time, and sometimes y- you need someone to step in when the person on the ground doesn't have the tools to kind of withdraw from that situation maybe.
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Sometimes they need to be removed by the line manager who steps in and says, "Look, you're changing out. They're doing this trip," because we need to get the other guys in there as well.
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It's, it's no good for the family, it's unhealthy to just be stuck with, you know, these individuals because then if you're sick, ill, whatever it may be, where, where's the resili- where's the, you know, that, that...
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There's no margin for change, right?
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But, but can I, can I then relate that, just because obviously I'm Mister Plain Vanilla, Mister, you know, un- uninitiated, right, to the protector who's not gone through this type of training.
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They might think, "Oh dear, now I have to go do a master's in behavioral analytics, and you know, and that, and, and that, that's a lot of work." But what does the training look like?
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Like, what, what, what would a, a, a, a syllabus even look like? Mm-hmm.
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So if we're looking at behavioral analysis in general, it would, um, in my case, in my training program, involve the observation of behaviors in context, which means really, um, learning how to adapt your observational skills when being in certain situation, meaning, uh, in a conversation, uh, in a setting, o- on a scene, entering a premises.
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Um, it really is about learning how to move the eyes on a body in order to make sense of a situation.
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Um, then it is really also related to self-reflection, being aware of your own biases, how they sidetrack you, how they kind of influence what you see and what you think.
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And then, um, it really becomes about the question: Where do you think of applying it?
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Do you need really fast eyes, like in risk assessment, we need to be able to spot, we need to be able to scan, we need to be able to get a general sense, uh, like, if you will, a, a feeling, uh, of the situation?
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Or, uh, does... is it really just, and f- forgive me for saying just, looking at a screen at a CCTV, yeah?
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Which I'm not saying is easy, I'm just saying it depends on the task, what kind of skill set you might want to enhance. So it really depends on from what background you come and where you want to apply it.
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But the general line is understanding behaviors in context, looking at behaviors in terms of movement, understanding verbal and non-verbal communication, inter- uh, understanding intercultural aspects and your own reflection and biases, uh, that come and influence, uh, the communication process.
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And when it comes to the child, um, the, to, to... When it comes to the, uh, security management around children, um, the approach is different.
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It is really going from understanding the developmental stages, the psychophysical developmental stages, understanding bonding behavior and stress management, coping strategies of all involved- Mm...
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basics of leadership, and basics of intercultural communication, and how all of that is influencing risks while on the task.
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So the focus of this training is not so much reading the behaviors, it is using the reading of behaviors in order to mitigate risks. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think y- you,
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you can do a training course and you're never gonna master everything, right? Yeah.
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It's giving you tools, and I think one of the great things I learnt, it was a- actually when I kind of s- stepped away from working as a bodyguard, I'd done some NLP training, and, uh, one great thing I learnt, you know, the map is not the territory they say is one of the rules where...
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And what that means is everyone sees something in a different way. You're w- I don't know how many messages a, a second our body gets, you know, 20,000 messages when you walk into a...
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You look in the cupboard for, I don't know, a can of beans, and you're like, "I cannot find this can of beans."
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And then someone else just goes in, just goes, and they'll pick it straight out because you're kind of filtering lots of things out. And when you're dealing with families of different people,
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they will see a situation completely different to how you see it, and sometimes you've just gotta pull yourself out and almost give yourself a bird's eye view and think, "Right, let's look at this rationally," you know?
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And I think it's just...
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Even that, just learning that as a skill is gonna give you tools to go, you know, not j- just be totally emotionally charged when something's happening and firing back, just pulling yourself out the situation and just look, looking at it rationally, taking a pause, taking that- Mm...
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we call it the condor moment, and, um-It'll give you a completely different view, for sure.
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That's very, very correct, and also training observational skills in general, just training observational skills, movement analysis, analysis of behavior, needs a base of understanding, for example, my own breath pattern, or it needs an understanding of am I even concentrated today?
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[laughs] So this is the basic, uh, that, you know, this is where it starts from, being aware of my own limitations, uh, of the, the, the biases like I mentioned earlier, and also,
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um, understanding a complex situation with a simple question of what does match and what does not match here? So almost like, you know, having a map on top of a map and thinking, "Okay, something is just...
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something is off." [laughs] Something is off. And, um, and it really depends on the level of threat, it really depends on how much time I have to observe.
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Just like I said, you know, uh, the typical thing is opening a door, entering a space, guiding somebody in, you know, going from A to B, and it, it's just like almost cutting through the space without, uh, a- any time to observe much.
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But again, you know, spotting in this kind of, um, environment is possible, and this is what your eyes ha- is trained for. This is what has been put in our system, you know, um, thousands of years ago, so it works.
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But you need to be able to know how to rely on those skills and how to probably enhance them when you are doing specific details in a specific environment. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely.
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Well, I like that, and I think that's practical for the protector. I'm a- I'm always on the practical side, like the y- yes, but now what [laughs] type of side. Um, so, uh, where, where, where next can we find you?
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You very kindly, uh, came, uh, to London to the ninth annual, uh, CPTF, which was great, and a, a lot of our listeners got a chance to, to, to meet you, myself included. Um, but, but where next can we find you? Yes.
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Thank you very much. And thank you again. The conference was excellent, so I really enjoyed it. Um, and I hope I'll be there next time again.
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So yes, the next thing that's coming up is on the 25th of February, so, um, from 6:00 to 7:00 PM Central European Time, I'm gonna do an introduction to the security management of children training.
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It's going to be online. You can find all the information on LinkedIn, and this is really the, the first introduction to the industry, if you will.
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Anybody who's interested in that and thinks this might be, you know, worthwhile their time are very, uh, welcome to, to join me there. And there are two more things coming up.
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One is, um, I'm doing a joint, uh, venture, if you will, together with Michael Wagg.
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We're doing a series called Perspectives, and this is going to be, the first one's going to be on the 29th of February from 8:00 to 9:00 PM, and it's going to be looking at,
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um, incidents that are currently interesting, uh, either for the industry or for the security management arena, and we're gonna be discussing that, those with experts, uh, from the field.
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And, uh, the last thing that is interesting probably is that I'm joining the, uh, ASPIDA77 Women in Protection, and I'm going to be also an in...
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doing an introduction for them for the security management around children. So these three things are coming up, and I'm very excited to, to do them, uh, online or even in person, uh, when there's time and when I can.
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Fantastic. And I think, I think even I've seen some ASPIDA, uh, announcements by Monica, um- Exactly... coming, coming up, so that's, so that's great fun. Um, fantastic.
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Okay, well, this is a tour de force, but with a practical application around behavioral analysis and risk factors for children.
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Uh, Sean West and myself, we have been delighted to speak with Sandra Addae-Kyerte, and this has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit Magazine Podcast.
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[rock music] Well, thank you very much, Sandra, and what a great topic, behavioral analysis, risk factors for children. Uh, Sean, what did you make of today's session? Yeah.
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I, I, I really enjoyed it. It actually took me back a number of times to, you know, situations that
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I've dealt with working with different families, um, situations I'm aware just through working in the industry of other guys or, or girls that have been working in, you know, an emotive family environment, and it just...
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I mean, sometimes you forget about these things that have happened over the years, but when you talk back through them, there's so mu- so many skills that you learn that, that sometimes I feel like you can't be taught.
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You've gotta live them, but, you know, speaking to Sandra, maybe these can be taught because them skills you kind of learn on the job, right? And if you can learn them and they're taught to you,
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they better prepare you for, for when situations happen. So no, it was, it was really interesting. I enjoyed it. I thought she came up with some great
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relevant points surrounding families, how to talk with children, how to, you know, have them professional barriers. Um, no, I really enjoyed it.
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I thought there was a lot to take away from that, especially if you're a newcomer and you're working in a family environment.
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Yeah, 'cause at, uh, at least as a newcomer is, you know, y- you should say, "Do I know how to do this?"
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Um, and, and, you know, honestly, if I, if I think about it, I don't know the nuanced communication that I would use to speak to a, a six-year-old versus a nine-year-old.
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I, I kind of think I'd talk to them the same way, but then maybe that's, that's not the best thing, especially if I need them to understand risk.
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And, and then, and, you know, I, I, I, I know Sandra said just, just tell it like it is maybe, you know, be, be very open and honest, but I, but I still think that there is-A distinct way of explaining high threat risk to,
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you know, a child. Uh, what, what do you think, Sean? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a difficult one, right? I think in my mind, you know, if, if there's threats surrounding the children, I'm talking to the parents.
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Unless it's, you know, it's in that moment when you're grabbing the kid and saying, "Right, you follow me." You c- you, you're getting in the car.
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Like, other than that, we're, we're talking to the parents, and, you know, there's a lot of training around that as well.
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You, you've seen many, I don't know, security managers, team leaders who can get dropped into a position that maybe don't have the right tools f- for that job. You know, there's many people who are great bodyguards
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or, or great, great soldiers, but as soon as they become a team leader or a, you know, an NCO in the army, it... Maybe they don't have them same skills, they can sink.
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Where the op- you can also have the opposite, the flip side, where people are a great leader, but maybe they, they didn't have the correct skills to be a bodyguard, right?
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And I think it's, it is, it's putting them right people in the right place that can navigate, who have the communication skills to speak with people up and down the levels, you know, parent level, child level, you know.
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And you're building... It's the same as working in an organization. You're speaking to a janitor compared to the CEO, you know. If, if you're somebody who has the skill set who can talk up and down that line,
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you're gonna be very well received.
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And, and I think that also links into other sessions we've had on the podcast where we talked about the dangers of the bodyguard, um, 'cause, 'cause I can imagine getting buy-in of a five-year-old could involve becoming their buddy.
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What, what do you think? Yeah. No, it, it definitely can, and it's an easy situation to, to be pulled into, right?
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And I think it's especially if you're new to the industry, it's something that you can easily fall foul of where it's...
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You know, everyone likes to be liked, and if that child takes a, "I wanna be with Pelin," you're gonna wanna kind of acquire that relationship because you, you're just starting out in the industry, and you think, "Yeah, this is cementing my role."
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But really it's, you know, it can be, it can be a real double-edged sword, and you, you definitely need to keep, keep them professional barriers which we spoke about because you'll find yourself, you, you can be sucked in and you're great at first, but once you start losing every Christmas, every s- summer holiday, every, you know, and when everyone else is getting their time off, and you're pulled straight back in, it can wear a bit thin.
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The tolerance gets less the longer you're in the industry. And I guess if you have them barriers settled from the start, you've got a lot more longevity.
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A- a- and maybe your ability to say no diminishes 'cause you're the buddy. [chuckles] I don't know. Well, this is, this is certainly something worth investigating and maybe even inquiring, how much do I know?
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It may- maybe it's a, a good time to check in, um- [audio glitch] Which, which I think, I think, I think is always, is, is, is always good.
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And it was great to see Sandra at the ninth annual CP Tech Forum, and I know as she's come with many recommendations from, uh, several people in the industry, so thank you. You, you know who you are out there.
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Um, what else have we got coming up? 'Cause, uh, you know, obviously the magazine is underway, and the podcast is underway. What's, uh, what, what's happening in the world of the Circuit magazine, Sean? Yeah.
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We've got the next issue, which should be ready to drop right about now. I think by the time you listen to this, this should be out. Um, another great issue, and, you know, some great articles in there.
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I think I've even got an article in there myself this month, which is, um, [chuckles] which is great. Being involved sometimes it's, it's, it's difficult when you're busy writing stuff, um,
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put a lot of content posts out, I guess. But getting back into the habit of writing articles, um, it's a little bit more difficult on your time. It takes a, a little bit more thought.
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But yeah, so we've got that issue coming out, and yeah, I think we've got some more good podcast gus- guests lined up, which will be fantastic. It'll be good to get them out. And yeah, I think onwards and upwards always.
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Absolutely. And, and, and, you know, you mentioned that you, you, you found the time to write an article.
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Of course, we're looking for contribution, um, for people to write an article and, and, and I think it's important to have that, um, mixture, the podcast format, the written word format, because people consume, uh, information in different ways at different times.
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Um, and, and I think it's important to, to realize that if, if we speak to the community in the manner in which they've expected to be spoken to, [chuckles] you know, that's, that's, that's good.
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If I, if I reflect all the way back to the very first Circuit magazine podcast, we sort of said, "Well, why are we doing it?" And, uh, you know, so why not?
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But also, um, because it's, it's a ready channel that people want to, uh, to, to, to be aware of.
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Um, also, uh, in that vein, I know James Bore, a frequent contributor to the magazine, um, is coming out very, very soon, if not already, with a book collecting his publications on cybersecurity, um, which I think is called The Cyber Circuit.
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Um, and that, and that's from his contributions to our magazine, um, um, and, uh, and, and he's got that coming out, or it may already have come out.
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Um, five years of articles on dozens of cybersecurity topics written for the casual and curious reader, originally published in the Circuit magazine. There we go. So we're making progress.
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We're making waves, aren't we, Sean? Yeah. No, absolutely. And he's, he's provided quite a few articles now for the magazine, and he's been a guest, so I know it's good to see him moving forward in his career as well and
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reverting back to us. That's fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, thanks very much for packaging that up in a wonderful format, and obviously there will be an e-book.
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I know I talked about different formats people like to, uh, you know, have, written word and, and, uh, you know, listening 'cause, 'cause that could be you, the protector, on the move, standing in a hallway.
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Uh, you know, you might be boarding a plane, downloading a bunch of podcasts before you don't get reception or something. Um, so, so there's, there's everything to play for.
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We're, we're very conscious that people consume content in different ways. Um, that being said, we love hearing from you.
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If you think, "Oh, no, we get, uh, feedback from everybody all the time, I don't need to give them feedback," please do 'cause we do appreciate it, and it can make a difference to the direction of the podcast.
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Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Sandra Adiante, thank you very much for coming on and talking about behavioral analysis and risk factors for children. I think this is really key.
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More, more investment will be spent by ultra high net worth, uh, individuals, uh, you know, in this area, so let's get on that, uh, that steam train.
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Uh, from Sean West and myself, this has been another fantastic edition of the Circuit magazine podcast. [rock music] You have been listening to the Circuit magazine podcast.
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Be sure to subscribe, and be sure to not miss an episode. [rock music]