Shift Into the Gray with Lindy Hockenbary

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This file was generated by Descript
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): Hi Lindy.
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Lindy Hockenbary: Hi Cate.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her):
Welcome to The Bridge
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Lindy Hockenbary: to the Bridge girl.
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I'm so excited to be here.
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I've been pumped for this all week.
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It's Friday.
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It's a great way to end the week.
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Yeah.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): Even though you'll
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Lindy Hockenbary: Even
though you'll be, we'll
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): but it is,
it's getting like the weather's
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changing, it's getting cozy here in
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Lindy Hockenbary: here, new California.
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And you're located where
I am in southwest Montana.
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Bozeman.
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So, yeah, it's the middle of November.
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I know this is gonna
drop middle of November.
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I just told my husband last night, I
cannot believe that we don't have snow
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on the ground mid-November in Montana.
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That's very, it's pretty unusual.
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Yeah.
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We've had a very mild fall overall,
and I'm not gonna complain.
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It's been very nice.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): so Lindy,
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Lindy Hockenbary: so Lindy, you and I,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): back
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Lindy Hockenbary: we go back
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): like
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Lindy Hockenbary: not like
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): but
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Lindy Hockenbary: eons, but
I feel like where what we
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): about each
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Lindy Hockenbary: like learned
about each other and how we film.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): time
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Lindy Hockenbary: As friend
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): ha has been,
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Lindy Hockenbary: said
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): you
know, what people would do
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Lindy Hockenbary: what people
were doing beyond, like, I
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just feel like you both like,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): just
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Lindy Hockenbary: just
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): created
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Lindy Hockenbary: created something out.
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Nothing.
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And you've been doing
this a really long time.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): and so
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Lindy Hockenbary: And so
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): you for being
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Lindy Hockenbary: I think for being on,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): want
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Lindy Hockenbary: I want
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): just
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Lindy Hockenbary: to just
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Cate Tolnai (she/her):
to introduce yourself
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Lindy Hockenbary: yourself and like
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): tell the world,
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Lindy Hockenbary: the world,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): tell
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Lindy Hockenbary: us,
tell our little world,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): little bit
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Lindy Hockenbary: a little bit about you.
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Yeah.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her):
we're all connected.
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Lindy Hockenbary: Yes, so
my name is Lindy Hockenbary.
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Hockenbary is a lot, so you can
think of me as the Lindy Hawk, you
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know, that's like the Lindy Hop.
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Just do a little play on that and
just shorten the Hockenbary right up.
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Yeah.
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And personally I am a Montanan,
so I said I am a dog mom.
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I got my two guys right here.
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My, if you know me, I'm like
all about the squishy face dog.
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So I've got my Boston Interior and my
Frenchie right here professionally.
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I love the title, the Bridge
because that is what I am.
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I am the bridge between
education and technology.
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So I kind of work on both sides.
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I work on the educator school teacher
side to help them unpack the effects
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of emerging technology on their
curriculum and their instruction.
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And then I also work on the tech side
with ed tech companies in particular, or
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sometimes tech companies that have ed tech
products to help them make sure that their
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products meet the needs of K 12 education.
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And I should say, I did not mention
this, but I'm a lifelong educator,
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spent my career in education.
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I started teaching middle
school, high school.
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I taught business education and
family consumer sciences, so CTE.
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And when I taught business, my
classroom was a computer lab.
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So that's what got me long story
short into working into the ed tech,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): It makes so
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Lindy Hockenbary: everything Ed,
so much sense with that background,
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like where you landed and
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): and I connected
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Lindy Hockenbary: you connected
during the pandemic, right?
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That's, that's how you
gotta know each other.
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I think so.
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I think it was, yeah.
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We had a co, a friend in common,
a couple friends in common
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slash colleagues in common.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): yes, yes.
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The
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Lindy Hockenbary: yes, yes.
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The Rich Dixon.
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Yeah.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): It was
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Lindy Hockenbary: Yes.
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Yes.
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It was those two.
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Yeah.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): two.
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And, and it's so funny because during the
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Lindy Hockenbary: During the pandemic.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): just,
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Lindy Hockenbary: when I just,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): stepping
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Lindy Hockenbary: just stepping into,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): and that's how our
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Lindy Hockenbary: that's how our world,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): and
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Lindy Hockenbary: and
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): think,
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Lindy Hockenbary: to think when,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): were you
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Lindy Hockenbary: where on
your journey when 2020 hit.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): doing this?
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Lindy Hockenbary: this?
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): tell
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Lindy Hockenbary: Yes.
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No.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): Mm-hmm.
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Lindy Hockenbary: I am not
due to the consulting world.
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I've been consulting since 2014.
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So in August, August of
2014 is when I started.
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I kept telling people I had
my 10 year anniversary, and
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somebody finally said to me.
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Wouldn't that be 11 years?
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And I'm like, oh yeah, it's 2025.
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I can do basic math.
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So I had my 11 year anniversary
in August of consulting.
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I did during one year during the pandemic
work for one of the ed tech companies
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that I had consulted with for years.
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I worked for them full-time.
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to kind of various different
things, maternity leaves and stuff.
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And, but other than that, I've been, I've
been a full-time consultant on, on, again,
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and on both sides, both leading lots of
professional development for teachers on
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a tech related stuff on the instructional
side, but then also working with the
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tech companies in various capacities.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): I can see, I
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Lindy Hockenbary: I can
see, I can think of so many
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): know
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Lindy Hockenbary: educators I know who,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): could be well
positioned to do some contract work.
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And, and I
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Lindy Hockenbary: And I think
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): really
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Lindy Hockenbary: what I'm
really intrigued to know
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about is one, how did she do?
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): it?
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Like how did
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Lindy Hockenbary: Mm, how did you
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): and then what,
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Lindy Hockenbary: make the move?
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And then what,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): what
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Lindy Hockenbary: what occurred
that made it something you can
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): years?
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Lindy Hockenbary: do for years?
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Because that's kind of a dream story.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): people
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Lindy Hockenbary: Yeah.
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People would hear that and be like, how,
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): she do
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Lindy Hockenbary: how did she do that?
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I get this question a lot,
and my answer is always, it
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literally happened by accident.
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Like everything in my career
has happened by accident.
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I did not intend to leave the classroom.
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I had hope plans whatsoever.
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my husband got into grad school.
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We moved, there weren't any teaching jobs.
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And I tell people that now amidst
like the huge teacher shortage.
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And they're like, what?
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And I'm like, well, it was during
the, the recession, the great
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quote, I don't know what they call
it, the second grade recession.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): Of our
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Lindy Hockenbary: and of our lifetime.
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Yeah.
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And, They, I have very specific
endorsements, so, and I live in Montana.
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We have a million people in the entire
state and we're the fourth largest state.
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So typically, like I'm certified in
business and family consumer sciences,
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there's one, maybe two of each of
those teachers in a high school.
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And that person might stay 30 years.
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You're waiting for them
to leave to get in.
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So, so that's kinda, I ended up.
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Doing curriculum development.
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We did a lot of professionalism
on the curriculum.
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We started integrating a lot of
technology into that curriculum.
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Then I worked as a tech integration
specialist for a regional service center,
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and we supported AB school districts
ish around southwest Montana and yeah,
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so Montana is massive, fourth largest
state, and we only have five regions.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.
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Lindy Hockenbary: and the whole
idea of service centers were
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really new at the time to Montana.
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so yeah, I was region four,
which is the southwest.
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So we had about 80 school
districts in our re 80 ish in our
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region that I supported from an
instructional technology perspective.
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And that is what led me into consulting.
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I realized the need was much more.
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Then Southwest Montana.
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And honestly, I started, I made the leap
and I started very much focused on Montana
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and that rural educator perspective.
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I come from Southeast Montana, a very,
very, very, very, very small town.
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400 ish people.
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The whole county I come from has, I
don't know, like 1100, 1200 people,
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maybe 1500 people in the whole county.
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so I went to school in rural Montana.
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I taught in rural Montana.
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And I understood that you are, you are
at that point, especially, and honestly
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still now, you are lucky to have even tech
support when it comes to technology, let
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alone instructional technology support.
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So my whole goal when I first started.
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Was support those rural schools
and those rural teachers with
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instructional tech support.
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And it just kind of grew and
has shifted and changed a lot.
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My, my focus and everything and what
I do has shifted a lot, much more
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nationally, much more internationally
even in the last 11 years.
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But yeah, that's, that's
how I got started.
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Honestly.
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It was just kind of like a calculated
risk and hey, I wanna, I wanna help more
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people, and I just took the leap, so.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): So is
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Lindy Hockenbary: When
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Cate Tolnai (she/her):
was it that you realized
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Lindy Hockenbary: it that you realized
that you had this ability to bridge
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between the companies and the schools?
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Like, and, and that you were
confident enough to like.
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Oh yeah, good question.
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Honestly, it, it again just started to
happen naturally because I was leading
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as my work as a tech integration
specialist at the service center.
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And then when I went off and went on my
own, I was leading tons of professional
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development trainings for teachers on.
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Tech related stuff, and I
always say, it's so interesting.
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I mean, I've been in Ed tech
specifically for about 15 years
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now, and watching the phases.
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So like when I first started
it was the iPad craze.
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Like iPads had just come out
in the last couple years.
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Schools were buying up iPad cards.
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They didn't know what to do with
them, so they'd bring me in to like,
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Hey, what do we do with these iPads?
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Like, we know we should do something,
but we don't know exactly what.
00:08:50.515 --> 00:08:50.965
Right.
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Then it was Google.
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Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yep.
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Lindy Hockenbary: Google
Apps for education, right?
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So it was like very Google focused.
00:08:56.485 --> 00:09:00.985
then it was like the STEM
steam, then the Chromebooks.
00:09:01.585 --> 00:09:06.235
Then there was like a big immersive
learning VR push there, right?
00:09:06.355 --> 00:09:10.855
So as I went through those shifts, that's
when I really started working a lot more
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with the ed tech companies in particular.
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And I saw that there was not a bridge.
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And I just naturally, 'cause that's
what I do, started to become the
00:09:22.045 --> 00:09:26.395
person that teaches teachers things
that they need to understand about the
00:09:26.395 --> 00:09:28.165
EdTech industry and EdTech products.
00:09:28.165 --> 00:09:31.135
Like even little things like whenever
I'm doing my trainings, I always
00:09:31.135 --> 00:09:35.200
throw out terminology like, you
need to understand what UI user I.
00:09:36.085 --> 00:09:40.795
UI stands for user interface, and
that helps you give better feedback
00:09:40.945 --> 00:09:44.635
on the products that you're using and
make sure that you have a voice in the
00:09:44.635 --> 00:09:49.045
product when you can say, Hey, your UI
needs help because this isn't working
00:09:49.045 --> 00:09:50.485
for me, or whatever it is, right?
00:09:50.815 --> 00:09:54.355
And then the other thing I do is I
educate them about things like how product
00:09:54.355 --> 00:09:59.905
feedback cycles and how, those EdTech
companies integrate product feedback.
00:09:59.935 --> 00:10:00.325
Right?
00:10:00.325 --> 00:10:03.895
I hope I, I educate them about
that and explain to them that, hey.
00:10:04.245 --> 00:10:05.715
You are not voiceless here.
00:10:05.715 --> 00:10:08.655
So if there's something that's not
working for you or you don't like
00:10:08.655 --> 00:10:11.745
in a product, hit the feedback
button and give it to them.
00:10:11.745 --> 00:10:15.585
Because pro products don't just
make their product roadmaps out
00:10:15.585 --> 00:10:17.385
of nothing like they really do.
00:10:17.385 --> 00:10:21.795
The good ones, especially, they really
do look at that product feedback, right.
00:10:21.795 --> 00:10:26.415
So just like little things like that of
bridging the teacher and understanding
00:10:26.415 --> 00:10:29.445
the other side of the bridge, the ed
tech companies, and then vice versa.
00:10:29.535 --> 00:10:33.135
The ed tech companies often are.
00:10:33.685 --> 00:10:38.095
Coders, you know, that have
never been in a classroom.
00:10:38.125 --> 00:10:41.305
So they're building cool, awesome things
'cause they have that ability and they
00:10:41.305 --> 00:10:45.625
have the vision, but they don't understand
the ins and outs of the classroom.
00:10:45.625 --> 00:10:50.185
And just even explaining things like
in K 12 products, the devils are in
00:10:50.185 --> 00:10:56.275
the detail, like really, and like that
might not seem like an important thing
00:10:56.275 --> 00:11:00.535
or important feature to you, but that
could make or break a teacher's time
00:11:00.595 --> 00:11:02.395
of them spending minutes versus hours.
00:11:02.794 --> 00:11:03.364
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.
00:11:03.634 --> 00:11:04.624
That is so, I
00:11:04.765 --> 00:11:06.025
Lindy Hockenbary: is so, I mean, that
00:11:06.154 --> 00:11:06.424
Cate Tolnai (she/her): a,
00:11:06.475 --> 00:11:10.105
Lindy Hockenbary: you're like a, a secret
weapon for, for some of these companies.
00:11:10.105 --> 00:11:10.525
I can totally see
00:11:10.534 --> 00:11:10.714
Cate Tolnai (she/her): But
00:11:11.005 --> 00:11:11.335
Lindy Hockenbary: that.
00:11:11.335 --> 00:11:12.235
But also, like,
00:11:12.364 --> 00:11:12.544
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that
00:11:12.775 --> 00:11:13.225
Lindy Hockenbary: I know
00:11:13.354 --> 00:11:13.594
Cate Tolnai (she/her): work
00:11:13.675 --> 00:11:14.725
Lindy Hockenbary: that you've
been doing work recently,
00:11:14.779 --> 00:11:15.499
Cate Tolnai (she/her): At least I've seen
00:11:15.625 --> 00:11:18.055
Lindy Hockenbary: at least I've
seen you post about it recently.
00:11:18.889 --> 00:11:19.249
Cate Tolnai (she/her): working with
00:11:19.435 --> 00:11:21.385
Lindy Hockenbary: like working
with families and parents.
00:11:21.709 --> 00:11:21.889
Cate Tolnai (she/her): do
00:11:22.105 --> 00:11:23.400
Lindy Hockenbary: So do you feel like,
00:11:23.419 --> 00:11:23.659
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that
00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:25.585
Lindy Hockenbary: how
has that work bridging
00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:25.879
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you to
00:11:26.035 --> 00:11:27.265
Lindy Hockenbary: prepared you to now?
00:11:27.325 --> 00:11:27.805
Go into this space, which
00:11:27.949 --> 00:11:28.849
Cate Tolnai (she/her): is so needed
00:11:28.850 --> 00:11:30.450
Lindy Hockenbary: is
so needed with AI only.
00:11:30.535 --> 00:11:31.315
Yes.
00:11:31.555 --> 00:11:36.775
It's funny, I've had, over the years,
I've had friends tell me, Hey, you need
00:11:36.775 --> 00:11:39.115
to help me as a parent with technology.
00:11:39.115 --> 00:11:42.115
I actually have a lot of friends
that come to me to be like, do
00:11:42.115 --> 00:11:43.930
I let my kid play Minecraft?
00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:48.280
Like, you know, like, is this okay?
00:11:48.430 --> 00:11:50.260
How much screen time should I give them?
00:11:50.260 --> 00:11:55.090
And now with ai, like, do I let them
use chat GPT my high school or do use
00:11:55.090 --> 00:11:56.470
chat GP help with their own, you know?
00:11:56.470 --> 00:12:02.170
So that just naturally becomes a
role with me in my group of friends.
00:12:02.350 --> 00:12:05.800
And it happens to be that a lot
of my friends are also teachers.
00:12:06.640 --> 00:12:11.350
But then I imagine that I also
have the perspective of people
00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:12.730
coming to me and just being like.
00:12:13.150 --> 00:12:14.680
We also need your help.
00:12:14.740 --> 00:12:16.810
It's not just educators,
it's not just teachers.
00:12:16.810 --> 00:12:18.910
It's not just schools, not
just ed tech companies.
00:12:18.910 --> 00:12:20.470
Like parents need your help.
00:12:20.470 --> 00:12:22.090
So, so yeah, I dabble.
00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.050
It's not my focus, but
I'm not gonna say no.
00:12:26.050 --> 00:12:31.780
And honestly, what parents need is very
similar to what schools and educators
00:12:31.780 --> 00:12:35.920
need, especially right now when it comes
to AI and unpacking the effects of it.
00:12:36.454 --> 00:12:36.784
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
00:12:37.024 --> 00:12:37.444
so
00:12:37.450 --> 00:12:37.540
Lindy Hockenbary: Yeah.
00:12:38.020 --> 00:12:39.400
so I, I know you
00:12:39.634 --> 00:12:39.724
Cate Tolnai (she/her): this
00:12:40.030 --> 00:12:41.135
Lindy Hockenbary: referenced
this idea of like.
00:12:41.944 --> 00:12:43.204
Cate Tolnai (she/her): marbles, right.
00:12:43.204 --> 00:12:44.584
And how education
00:12:44.725 --> 00:12:46.075
Lindy Hockenbary: education right now.
00:12:46.075 --> 00:12:46.285
And I,
00:12:46.384 --> 00:12:47.044
Cate Tolnai (she/her): think that's such a
00:12:47.125 --> 00:12:49.645
Lindy Hockenbary: I think that's such
a powerful metaphor, to be honest.
00:12:49.645 --> 00:12:52.405
Like when we were talking, when
we were connecting about like
00:12:52.504 --> 00:12:52.864
Cate Tolnai (she/her): be talking
00:12:52.915 --> 00:12:54.895
Lindy Hockenbary: what we would be
talking about in the podcast and, and I
00:12:54.895 --> 00:12:57.180
came across that metaphor, I was like,
00:12:57.334 --> 00:12:57.634
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it,
00:12:57.730 --> 00:12:58.700
Lindy Hockenbary: yeah, it, it,
00:12:59.674 --> 00:13:00.604
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
I can interpret that
00:13:00.625 --> 00:13:02.035
Lindy Hockenbary: I can
interpret that in a lot of ways.
00:13:02.035 --> 00:13:05.545
So I'm curious how you are
defining that metaphor.
00:13:05.905 --> 00:13:06.865
Yes.
00:13:06.985 --> 00:13:10.975
So what I mean by that is I always
say education is like an overflowing
00:13:11.185 --> 00:13:15.175
jar of marbles because the jar has
been full for a really long time,
00:13:15.355 --> 00:13:19.135
but we just keep adding more marbles,
and now the marbles are overflowing.
00:13:19.135 --> 00:13:20.095
They're falling all over the floor.
00:13:20.095 --> 00:13:23.455
People are tripping over them, they're
hurting themselves, they're falling over.
00:13:23.635 --> 00:13:24.715
But what are we doing?
00:13:24.985 --> 00:13:26.395
We're not taking away marbles.
00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:29.830
We're adding, we just keep
throwing more marbles on the floor.
00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:32.860
'cause at this point, they're not
going anywhere near the jar, right?
00:13:32.860 --> 00:13:37.480
So educators are just overwhelmed
by, oh, now we got this initiative.
00:13:37.510 --> 00:13:38.770
Oh, now we have to teach this.
00:13:38.770 --> 00:13:39.580
Oh, we have to teach this.
00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:40.510
We have to teach this.
00:13:40.690 --> 00:13:45.610
We keep adding things and the things that
we're adding are so important in critical
00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:47.890
the majority of the time, like right now.
00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:52.420
AI literacy, media literacy,
information literacy, digital
00:13:52.420 --> 00:13:58.540
citizenship, like so important and
critical to our kids, to our society.
00:13:58.750 --> 00:14:02.140
But what we're not doing
is taking out marbles.
00:14:02.950 --> 00:14:07.450
Where I have started to go with it
and help is like, okay, since we
00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:10.750
can't seem to take out marbles, and
in fact sometimes education takes
00:14:10.750 --> 00:14:14.290
out marbles and then legislation
adds the marbles right back in.
00:14:14.455 --> 00:14:14.695
Oh, good point.
00:14:14.695 --> 00:14:14.755
Yeah,
00:14:15.109 --> 00:14:15.919
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
that's a really good
00:14:15.925 --> 00:14:16.825
Lindy Hockenbary: I mean, think about it.
00:14:16.825 --> 00:14:19.885
Think about it like the few things that
we've been able to take out of like
00:14:19.885 --> 00:14:21.865
standards or focuses or curriculums.
00:14:22.105 --> 00:14:24.685
Sometimes legislation comes
back around and like p plops
00:14:24.685 --> 00:14:25.915
that marble right back in.
00:14:25.915 --> 00:14:29.335
And then if you're a public school,
like you receive public funding,
00:14:29.335 --> 00:14:30.835
like you're tied to that legislation.
00:14:30.955 --> 00:14:36.385
So what I have started to do more
and more is be like, alright, we
00:14:36.385 --> 00:14:37.765
can't seem to take out marbles.
00:14:37.795 --> 00:14:40.495
Why don't we combine marbles?
00:14:41.215 --> 00:14:44.785
Okay, and my message to teachers
is technology is made by humans.
00:14:45.910 --> 00:14:49.840
It doesn't exist outside of
curricular topics and subject matter.
00:14:49.900 --> 00:14:54.790
Humans make technology like ai, like
algorithms, like social media apps
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.600
because they went to school and they
understand math and science and social
00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.040
studies and music and art and you know,
all the things on and on and on and on.
00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:07.480
So my, one of my big pushes right
now, for example, is this idea
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.310
that AI literacy isn't extra.
00:15:09.310 --> 00:15:12.145
It's not one more thing, one
more marble you have to add in.
00:15:12.685 --> 00:15:17.215
It's core and it's core curriculum.
00:15:17.455 --> 00:15:22.405
And what I mean by that is if you
boil down and understand how AI works,
00:15:22.405 --> 00:15:24.865
at the most basic level, it's math,
00:15:25.144 --> 00:15:25.414
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
00:15:25.825 --> 00:15:27.235
Lindy Hockenbary: it's
pattern recognition.
00:15:27.325 --> 00:15:31.195
In fact, I went to, so I live in Bozeman
and we have the Museum of the Rockies.
00:15:31.195 --> 00:15:33.295
I had to live right behind
the Museum of the Rockies.
00:15:34.045 --> 00:15:36.595
A nationally known museum.
00:15:36.595 --> 00:15:38.185
We have like amazing dinosaur exhibits.
00:15:38.185 --> 00:15:43.045
Anyway, they had a panel there this
week on AI that they brought in,
00:15:44.125 --> 00:15:45.925
national people for this AI panel.
00:15:45.925 --> 00:15:48.595
So my husband and I went over there
the other night and one of the
00:15:48.595 --> 00:15:50.635
guys is, he was actually local.
00:15:50.635 --> 00:15:52.885
He's a professor at Montana
State University, which is
00:15:52.885 --> 00:15:53.965
right beside the museum.
00:15:54.235 --> 00:15:57.355
In computer science, and I
wrote this down so I'm like, I'm
00:15:57.355 --> 00:15:58.885
gonna repeat this so many times.
00:15:58.885 --> 00:16:00.385
He said two things.
00:16:00.415 --> 00:16:05.965
AI is a great big probability
distribution and a mathematical
00:16:05.965 --> 00:16:08.335
artifact of human creation.
00:16:09.145 --> 00:16:10.795
So this is coming from
a computer science guy.
00:16:10.795 --> 00:16:15.085
So he's creating the AI models and
understands it at the most basic level.
00:16:15.415 --> 00:16:18.205
And he literally said, in not so
many words, what I've been saying
00:16:18.205 --> 00:16:21.385
to educators, people, AI is math.
00:16:21.619 --> 00:16:22.369
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
Will you read it again?
00:16:22.465 --> 00:16:22.830
Lindy Hockenbary: Will you read it again?
00:16:23.455 --> 00:16:23.905
Yep.
00:16:24.325 --> 00:16:25.345
so let's see.
00:16:25.915 --> 00:16:31.285
AI is a great big probability
distribution and a mathematical
00:16:31.285 --> 00:16:33.805
artifact of human creation.
00:16:35.155 --> 00:16:35.635
Yeah.
00:16:35.815 --> 00:16:38.305
So like what do you mean by that?
00:16:38.305 --> 00:16:38.515
Okay.
00:16:38.515 --> 00:16:39.265
What do you mean, Lindy?
00:16:39.265 --> 00:16:43.495
Like how do you teach AI
literacy as part of math?
00:16:43.615 --> 00:16:44.035
Right?
00:16:44.245 --> 00:16:45.745
Well, what are you doing in math?
00:16:45.745 --> 00:16:46.855
What's math standards?
00:16:46.855 --> 00:16:51.715
You're analyzing patterns,
probability sampling variables.
00:16:52.285 --> 00:16:57.115
Those are all foundations of
how algorithms work people.
00:16:57.685 --> 00:17:02.815
So what if in math class we ask
students, why does your TikTok
00:17:02.845 --> 00:17:05.665
FYP look different than mine?
00:17:05.695 --> 00:17:07.555
My husband and I have this
conversation all the time.
00:17:07.555 --> 00:17:10.930
By the way, our TikTok
FYPs are so different.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:16.240
Because that's the algorithm in the
background figuring out, like predicting
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:20.230
what I like versus what he likes, right?
00:17:20.290 --> 00:17:25.540
So now we're taking math,
we're combining two marbles.
00:17:25.540 --> 00:17:28.120
We've gotta teach AI literacy,
we've gotta teach math.
00:17:28.150 --> 00:17:29.230
We're combining them together.
00:17:29.230 --> 00:17:30.220
But what else are we doing?
00:17:30.520 --> 00:17:31.150
We're adding relevance
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:32.049
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Yeah.
00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:34.540
Lindy Hockenbary: and real world to.
00:17:34.945 --> 00:17:40.225
That teaching, which is so lacking in so
many ways, in a lot of formal education.
00:17:40.225 --> 00:17:43.735
That relevance piece of, you
know, connecting it to why
00:17:43.735 --> 00:17:47.005
students should be interested,
and it's not just math by the way.
00:17:47.005 --> 00:17:49.945
There's a huge amount of science,
social studies that honestly I've
00:17:49.945 --> 00:17:51.475
been able to attach a literacy to.
00:17:51.475 --> 00:17:55.225
I think about every content area
that seemed to be typical of what
00:17:55.225 --> 00:17:59.875
we teach in K 12 education and
like what our standards match,
00:18:00.019 --> 00:18:00.649
Cate Tolnai (she/her): So, okay.
00:18:00.649 --> 00:18:00.919
I am gonna
00:18:01.045 --> 00:18:01.645
Lindy Hockenbary: so, okay.
00:18:02.029 --> 00:18:03.049
Cate Tolnai (she/her): to another level.
00:18:03.190 --> 00:18:03.910
Lindy Hockenbary: another level.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.400
So tell me if this tracks after listening.
00:18:06.610 --> 00:18:06.880
So
00:18:07.009 --> 00:18:07.279
Cate Tolnai (she/her): about the
00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:08.950
Lindy Hockenbary: is what I
thought about the metaphor before
00:18:08.950 --> 00:18:10.360
talking to you, and now I'm Affirm,
00:18:10.429 --> 00:18:10.759
Cate Tolnai (she/her): is,
00:18:11.020 --> 00:18:11.530
Lindy Hockenbary: which is,
00:18:11.629 --> 00:18:11.869
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it's
00:18:12.040 --> 00:18:13.750
Lindy Hockenbary: maybe it's less about
00:18:13.789 --> 00:18:16.189
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
the marbles as they're
00:18:16.270 --> 00:18:19.030
Lindy Hockenbary: as they're
currently shaped, but perhaps
00:18:19.030 --> 00:18:21.100
what we're needing to do is grab a
00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:21.649
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:21.970
Lindy Hockenbary: and
00:18:22.309 --> 00:18:22.789
Cate Tolnai (she/her): chop 'em
00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:23.140
Lindy Hockenbary: Mm,
00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:24.499
Cate Tolnai (she/her): because
00:18:24.670 --> 00:18:25.810
Lindy Hockenbary: up the marbles.
00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:27.640
Make more space in the jar.
00:18:28.414 --> 00:18:28.864
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and through
00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:29.170
Lindy Hockenbary: Oh.
00:18:29.644 --> 00:18:31.024
Cate Tolnai (she/her): learning and
00:18:31.135 --> 00:18:32.275
Lindy Hockenbary: my gosh,
00:18:32.374 --> 00:18:33.304
Cate Tolnai (she/her): because now
00:18:33.355 --> 00:18:33.925
Lindy Hockenbary: I love it.
00:18:34.270 --> 00:18:34.650
All that
00:18:34.834 --> 00:18:36.214
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
that's hiding in those
00:18:36.550 --> 00:18:37.010
Lindy Hockenbary: in those
00:18:37.354 --> 00:18:40.054
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
marbles is, can be we if
00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:40.970
Lindy Hockenbary: Intertwined.
00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:41.650
Yeah.
00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:43.250
Interdisciplinary learning
00:18:43.684 --> 00:18:44.494
Cate Tolnai (she/her): And then through
00:18:44.550 --> 00:18:45.530
Lindy Hockenbary: and science.
00:18:45.784 --> 00:18:46.414
Cate Tolnai (she/her): are taking
00:18:46.690 --> 00:18:47.010
Lindy Hockenbary: taking
00:18:47.074 --> 00:18:48.274
Cate Tolnai (she/her): creating a solid
00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:49.570
Lindy Hockenbary: solid foundation.
00:18:49.804 --> 00:18:50.014
Cate Tolnai (she/her): more
00:18:50.130 --> 00:18:51.325
Lindy Hockenbary: Us to put more marbles,
00:18:51.454 --> 00:18:51.784
Cate Tolnai (she/her): them,
00:18:52.195 --> 00:18:52.525
Lindy Hockenbary: them.
00:18:52.735 --> 00:18:55.075
Regenerate and, and I don't know.
00:18:55.075 --> 00:18:55.885
That to me is
00:18:56.014 --> 00:18:56.314
Cate Tolnai (she/her): makes
00:18:56.365 --> 00:18:58.225
Lindy Hockenbary: what, what
makes me tick is when we.
00:18:58.534 --> 00:18:59.584
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
topics, this is what you just
00:18:59.710 --> 00:19:02.680
Lindy Hockenbary: What you just did,
you take that super complex topic
00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:04.360
like science algorithms, right?
00:19:04.360 --> 00:19:04.750
And you start
00:19:04.804 --> 00:19:04.984
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.170
Lindy Hockenbary: getting up that
marble and creating marble dust that
00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:12.910
is now gonna settle and reshape into
something else, or maybe pass itself to
00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:15.700
another subject area or another project.
00:19:15.700 --> 00:19:15.790
Yep.
00:19:16.479 --> 00:19:17.169
Cate Tolnai (she/her): right?
00:19:18.025 --> 00:19:18.715
Lindy Hockenbary: 100%.
00:19:18.715 --> 00:19:19.255
I love that.
00:19:19.255 --> 00:19:21.505
I love the idea of just
break the marbles up.
00:19:21.745 --> 00:19:24.925
Then you're making, you're, you're
filling up all the air space in the
00:19:24.925 --> 00:19:28.075
jar to make more room and you're
intermixing everything together.
00:19:28.315 --> 00:19:32.545
But guess what's gonna happen in order or
has to happen in order for that to happen?
00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:33.040
Exactly.
00:19:33.790 --> 00:19:37.750
Standards have gotta be reevaluated
and changed and prioritized.
00:19:37.750 --> 00:19:41.140
Like you, you live and die as a
teacher by your standards, right?
00:19:41.140 --> 00:19:44.980
And usually the curriculum that your
school gives you to teach those standards.
00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:47.920
And you're supposed to follow
that curriculum with fidelity.
00:19:48.190 --> 00:19:53.230
So those curriculums are jam packed
trying to teach all of the standards.
00:19:53.230 --> 00:19:58.900
We've gotta look at those standards
and prioritize, evaluate and also.
00:19:59.665 --> 00:20:03.235
Add the relevance piece so
that digital citizenship should
00:20:03.235 --> 00:20:04.795
not be a separate course.
00:20:04.795 --> 00:20:09.505
It can't be, we don't have time for it in
the school year in the a hundred and what
00:20:09.505 --> 00:20:12.805
is it, 180 day typical K 12 school year.
00:20:12.805 --> 00:20:17.365
Like we don't have time for students to
go take a digital citizenship course or
00:20:17.365 --> 00:20:19.435
a separate AI literacy course, right?
00:20:19.435 --> 00:20:26.125
Figure out how to embed and
add relevance at the same time
00:20:26.125 --> 00:20:27.230
and add relevance at the same.
00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:29.059
Cate Tolnai (she/her): care of
our children's minds and hearts.
00:20:29.470 --> 00:20:29.680
Lindy Hockenbary: Heart.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:30.730
Yes.
00:20:30.730 --> 00:20:31.360
All of that.
00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:32.920
You know, that's a huge area that I,
00:20:32.929 --> 00:20:33.439
Cate Tolnai (she/her): personally
00:20:33.520 --> 00:20:36.100
Lindy Hockenbary: I personally
have gove into is AI literacy
00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:37.425
and social emotional learning.
00:20:37.565 --> 00:20:37.785
Mm.
00:20:38.205 --> 00:20:41.620
And just doubling down on that,
because I also have found that like
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:42.109
Cate Tolnai (she/her): at this
00:20:42.310 --> 00:20:44.920
Lindy Hockenbary: teachers at this
point in time need to be reminded,
00:20:44.980 --> 00:20:48.505
but they're still experts in child
development still know how children,
00:20:48.829 --> 00:20:49.039
Cate Tolnai (she/her): from
00:20:49.315 --> 00:20:49.905
Lindy Hockenbary: aside from
00:20:50.149 --> 00:20:50.269
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that
00:20:50.405 --> 00:20:50.625
Lindy Hockenbary: cu,
00:20:50.629 --> 00:20:50.749
Cate Tolnai (she/her): be
00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:53.170
Lindy Hockenbary: that will ever
be offered or not offered, like.
00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:54.439
Cate Tolnai (she/her): This is what we do.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.279
And like, we've somehow like started to
00:20:58.300 --> 00:20:59.830
Lindy Hockenbary: Like
start the questions.
00:20:59.835 --> 00:21:00.055
Mm-hmm.
00:21:00.195 --> 00:21:03.610
And we know about children and
what we believe about, like
00:21:03.709 --> 00:21:04.069
Cate Tolnai (she/her): needs to
00:21:04.330 --> 00:21:06.910
Lindy Hockenbary: what needs to happen
and what is happening in their brains,
00:21:06.919 --> 00:21:07.159
Cate Tolnai (she/her): with
00:21:07.789 --> 00:21:08.479
innovation.
00:21:08.479 --> 00:21:08.569
And
00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:09.310
Lindy Hockenbary: innovation.
00:21:09.310 --> 00:21:12.400
And so I try and make
the piece like, you know,
00:21:12.904 --> 00:21:13.894
Cate Tolnai (she/her): what they're ready
00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:15.940
Lindy Hockenbary: what they're
ready for, so why are we having
00:21:15.940 --> 00:21:17.320
conversations around why this
00:21:17.494 --> 00:21:17.644
Cate Tolnai (she/her): when
00:21:17.650 --> 00:21:19.150
Lindy Hockenbary: versus
this one when the reality is,
00:21:19.234 --> 00:21:21.724
Cate Tolnai (she/her): ready
for any of it, like none of it.
00:21:21.925 --> 00:21:22.455
Lindy Hockenbary: none of it.
00:21:23.224 --> 00:21:23.704
Cate Tolnai (she/her): So
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:25.810
Lindy Hockenbary: So
it's just interesting.
00:21:25.810 --> 00:21:26.080
Right.
00:21:26.254 --> 00:21:26.404
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I'm
00:21:26.410 --> 00:21:27.040
Lindy Hockenbary: I'm like gonna.
00:21:27.235 --> 00:21:27.385
Think
00:21:27.454 --> 00:21:27.964
Cate Tolnai (she/her): marbles
00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:29.960
Lindy Hockenbary: your marvel
because you really struck,
00:21:31.774 --> 00:21:32.374
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and we can't
00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:34.315
Lindy Hockenbary: and we
can't keep it up at all.
00:21:35.005 --> 00:21:35.485
Yeah.
00:21:35.905 --> 00:21:39.865
Well, last night, last night, I'm
scrolling, I think it was Facebook and.
00:21:40.855 --> 00:21:42.265
Ed, I think it was Ed Week.
00:21:42.265 --> 00:21:43.165
I took screenshots of it.
00:21:43.165 --> 00:21:43.435
Yes.
00:21:43.435 --> 00:21:43.915
Here we go.
00:21:44.185 --> 00:21:47.935
Ed Week posted an article where they
had interviewed researchers that did
00:21:47.935 --> 00:21:51.775
a research study on cell phone use in
schools and like all the bands that are
00:21:51.775 --> 00:21:55.135
happening in state level bands and how
different schools are, all that stuff.
00:21:55.255 --> 00:21:58.525
So the article is titled "Why a
Good Cell Phone Policy is About
00:21:58.525 --> 00:21:59.935
More Than Just Restrictions".
00:22:00.115 --> 00:22:05.395
It was a really great article and
the conclusion was you can't just
00:22:05.395 --> 00:22:09.565
totally take out the cell phone
and act like it doesn't exist.
00:22:10.030 --> 00:22:16.360
Right and not teach kids healthy
habits and use of that technology,
00:22:16.630 --> 00:22:20.200
which is the theme you could take
that we're applying it right now
00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:21.520
to cell phones and the smartphones.
00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:25.420
You could apply that to almost every other
technology that we talk about, right?
00:22:25.450 --> 00:22:25.900
But guess what?
00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:28.210
Here, the reason I took the
picture, it's a good article and
00:22:28.210 --> 00:22:31.900
it's good research, but I took the
picture because of the comments.
00:22:32.129 --> 00:22:32.609
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I wanna know.
00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:34.180
Lindy Hockenbary: One comment.
00:22:34.885 --> 00:22:38.815
What standards or other demands will
be cut down so that teachers have
00:22:38.815 --> 00:22:40.855
time to teach healthy digital habits?
00:22:42.445 --> 00:22:43.465
Comment number two.
00:22:43.765 --> 00:22:47.995
As a teacher educator, I can tell you that
we can't keep adding responsibilities to
00:22:47.995 --> 00:22:50.545
teachers' plates without taking some off.
00:22:50.605 --> 00:22:51.865
It's unsustainable.
00:22:53.575 --> 00:22:57.955
So that right there shows that
that's exactly the mentality that
00:22:57.955 --> 00:22:59.285
we have in schools right now.
00:22:59.519 --> 00:22:59.719
Cate Tolnai (she/her): absolutely.
00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:02.530
Lindy Hockenbary: And teachers are
overwhelmed, they're burnt out.
00:23:03.040 --> 00:23:05.890
They already feel like they don't
have enough time to cover all
00:23:05.890 --> 00:23:08.920
the standards and things that
they are, that they can, right?
00:23:09.010 --> 00:23:09.760
So what do we do?
00:23:09.760 --> 00:23:11.710
We put the cell phone in a pouch.
00:23:11.710 --> 00:23:13.480
We make 'em keep it in their locker.
00:23:13.600 --> 00:23:15.010
We act like it doesn't exist.
00:23:15.070 --> 00:23:21.790
And what that does, there's a quote by a,
a person who like focuses on, kid media.
00:23:22.120 --> 00:23:23.200
And media literacy.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:28.570
And it basically says that by not
allowing, like, just totally taking
00:23:28.570 --> 00:23:34.480
media out of kids' lives, you're, you're
taking them away from the conversation.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:39.100
You're pulling your voice
out of it and Right.
00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:45.370
So, and what happens when we do that
with technology is that then the creators
00:23:45.370 --> 00:23:47.500
of the technology have full control.
00:23:48.454 --> 00:23:49.324
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Dangerous.
00:23:49.795 --> 00:23:51.685
Lindy Hockenbary: we're, we're
talking about billion and now
00:23:51.715 --> 00:23:53.785
trillion dollar companies.
00:23:53.785 --> 00:23:59.245
Nvidia is worth $5 trillion
people, 5 trillion, not just
00:23:59.245 --> 00:24:00.925
single trillion, 5 trillion.
00:24:00.925 --> 00:24:05.095
So they have like unlimited
amount of resources to do
00:24:05.095 --> 00:24:07.285
whatever they want and run amuck.
00:24:07.555 --> 00:24:12.400
So if you're not voicing, be having
your voice as part of the conversation.
00:24:13.510 --> 00:24:14.710
Like, that's I think you said it.
00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:15.130
What did you say?
00:24:15.130 --> 00:24:15.640
Dangerous.
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:16.450
Did you say dangerous?
00:24:16.450 --> 00:24:17.380
It's dangerous.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:23.680
It really is dangerous because they're
gonna run amuck and do whatever they want.
00:24:23.710 --> 00:24:24.160
Right.
00:24:24.225 --> 00:24:28.090
It, it, it basically
becomes technology built.
00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:36.220
Technology built without us and not for
us is technology used on us and not by us.
00:24:37.159 --> 00:24:38.449
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
That's, that is like
00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:38.810
Lindy Hockenbary: That that.
00:24:39.049 --> 00:24:39.409
Cate Tolnai (she/her): episode.
00:24:42.085 --> 00:24:43.465
Lindy Hockenbary: I love
Black Mirror, by the way.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:44.424
Cate Tolnai (she/her): really creepy.
00:24:45.205 --> 00:24:45.775
Lindy Hockenbary: So good.
00:24:47.035 --> 00:24:50.905
And my husband will not watch it and
he's like, I don't know how you watch it.
00:24:50.905 --> 00:24:51.295
It stresses me out.
00:24:51.295 --> 00:24:51.475
Yeah.
00:24:52.894 --> 00:24:53.584
Cate Tolnai (she/her): But you're into it,
00:24:55.860 --> 00:24:56.630
Lindy Hockenbary: It's be, you know what?
00:24:56.630 --> 00:25:04.855
It's because I am an I'm, it optimist,
like an extreme optimist at heart,
00:25:05.485 --> 00:25:07.585
and so I watch it and I laugh.
00:25:07.834 --> 00:25:08.104
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Oh, I
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.190
Lindy Hockenbary: Because I know,
I know that if we can get our act
00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:17.230
together in society, and I really do
believe that it starts with education
00:25:17.230 --> 00:25:19.150
and public education in particular.
00:25:19.570 --> 00:25:24.430
If we can get our act together and
we can figure out how to teach civics
00:25:24.430 --> 00:25:29.500
and citizenship and information
literacy to then we are not gonna
00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:32.890
have the black mirror happen.
00:25:33.100 --> 00:25:37.210
But unfortunately, I don't
think we're on that path yet.
00:25:37.645 --> 00:25:42.115
But I feel like AI is like pushing us
there and we're finally realizing like
00:25:42.115 --> 00:25:47.665
this is a technology that we can't ignore
and act like, oh, we're just gonna go
00:25:47.665 --> 00:25:51.325
about and do our math worksheets and
act like, you know, the world around us
00:25:51.325 --> 00:25:53.635
isn't changing fundamentally anymore.
00:25:54.355 --> 00:25:56.875
now we have a technology that
students can use to complete
00:25:56.875 --> 00:25:59.215
that math worksheet, right?
00:25:59.215 --> 00:26:01.285
So it's like forcing.
00:26:02.530 --> 00:26:06.100
Education, which tends to move
very slow for many, many reasons.
00:26:06.100 --> 00:26:09.970
That's not targeting any
particular person, or it is
00:26:09.970 --> 00:26:11.650
just as an institution, right?
00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:14.770
Formal education moves really slow,
and it's still, don't get me wrong,
00:26:14.770 --> 00:26:17.410
it's still moving slow, but it's
maybe forcing the slow machine
00:26:17.410 --> 00:26:19.870
to like veer a teeny tiny bit.
00:26:19.999 --> 00:26:20.389
Cate Tolnai (she/her): agree.
00:26:20.389 --> 00:26:20.659
And,
00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:21.250
Lindy Hockenbary: I agree.
00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:22.345
And I've been,
00:26:22.369 --> 00:26:23.299
Cate Tolnai (she/her): recently been
00:26:23.320 --> 00:26:23.980
Lindy Hockenbary: recently been
00:26:24.499 --> 00:26:24.619
Cate Tolnai (she/her): in
00:26:24.820 --> 00:26:25.705
Lindy Hockenbary: participating in a
00:26:25.999 --> 00:26:26.929
Cate Tolnai (she/her): practice for
00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:28.930
Lindy Hockenbary: practice
for educator prep programs.
00:26:30.199 --> 00:26:30.379
Cate Tolnai (she/her): at
00:26:30.595 --> 00:26:31.975
Lindy Hockenbary: we're
looking at AI literacy,
00:26:32.239 --> 00:26:32.479
Cate Tolnai (she/her): use.
00:26:32.695 --> 00:26:33.025
Lindy Hockenbary: AI
00:26:33.034 --> 00:26:33.184
Cate Tolnai (she/her): And
00:26:33.295 --> 00:26:33.535
Lindy Hockenbary: use, and
00:26:33.754 --> 00:26:33.874
Cate Tolnai (she/her): in
00:26:34.105 --> 00:26:35.695
Lindy Hockenbary: implementation
and educator prep programs,
00:26:35.695 --> 00:26:39.025
because obviously you and I could
both know, we know this, like
00:26:39.064 --> 00:26:39.274
Cate Tolnai (she/her): what they
00:26:39.415 --> 00:26:40.345
Lindy Hockenbary: the kids
aren't getting what they need.
00:26:40.345 --> 00:26:40.495
Teachers
00:26:40.504 --> 00:26:40.804
Cate Tolnai (she/her): need.
00:26:40.825 --> 00:26:41.155
Lindy Hockenbary: don't get what they
00:26:41.284 --> 00:26:41.764
Cate Tolnai (she/her): aren't getting what
00:26:41.845 --> 00:26:42.745
Lindy Hockenbary: leaders
aren't getting what they need,
00:26:42.964 --> 00:26:43.414
Cate Tolnai (she/her): where does that
00:26:43.465 --> 00:26:44.515
Lindy Hockenbary: so
where does that start?
00:26:44.515 --> 00:26:44.575
It
00:26:44.794 --> 00:26:45.094
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and
00:26:45.295 --> 00:26:45.535
Lindy Hockenbary: prep.
00:26:45.784 --> 00:26:46.444
Cate Tolnai (she/her): leader prep.
00:26:46.645 --> 00:26:47.155
Lindy Hockenbary: Leader prep.
00:26:47.524 --> 00:26:48.094
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it's a really
00:26:48.295 --> 00:26:49.315
Lindy Hockenbary: it's a
really interesting flip to the
00:26:49.354 --> 00:26:50.194
Cate Tolnai (she/her): conversation
00:26:50.340 --> 00:26:52.260
Lindy Hockenbary:
conversation that I'm loving
00:26:52.264 --> 00:26:52.684
Cate Tolnai (she/her): like I'm gonna
00:26:52.765 --> 00:26:53.875
Lindy Hockenbary: and I feel
like I'm gonna walk away.
00:26:54.334 --> 00:26:54.634
Cate Tolnai (she/her): like
00:26:54.655 --> 00:26:57.580
Lindy Hockenbary: More like brain
babies that need to go somewhere,
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:59.620
but, got brain babies.
00:26:59.875 --> 00:27:01.135
I have lots of brain babies
00:27:01.729 --> 00:27:02.389
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I'm full of 'em.
00:27:02.389 --> 00:27:02.689
Right.
00:27:02.800 --> 00:27:03.260
Lindy Hockenbary: of em.
00:27:03.260 --> 00:27:03.420
Right.
00:27:04.609 --> 00:27:05.359
Cate Tolnai (she/her): So let me
00:27:05.520 --> 00:27:06.780
Lindy Hockenbary: So lemme ask you this,
00:27:06.979 --> 00:27:07.879
Cate Tolnai (she/her): last question.
00:27:08.260 --> 00:27:08.380
Lindy Hockenbary: question
00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:08.899
Cate Tolnai (she/her): to end with
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:09.540
Lindy Hockenbary: I end,
00:27:09.679 --> 00:27:10.999
Cate Tolnai (she/her): yours,
I'm gonna twist a little.
00:27:11.029 --> 00:27:11.539
So
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:11.940
Lindy Hockenbary: so
00:27:11.989 --> 00:27:13.009
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you stepped, you
00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:13.500
Lindy Hockenbary: stepped,
00:27:14.179 --> 00:27:14.599
Cate Tolnai (she/her): this
00:27:14.755 --> 00:27:17.965
Lindy Hockenbary: stepped into
this role as a bridge builder.
00:27:18.499 --> 00:27:18.649
Cate Tolnai (she/her): in
00:27:19.339 --> 00:27:20.269
So if you could go
00:27:20.560 --> 00:27:23.300
Lindy Hockenbary: You
to go back and tell 14,
00:27:23.569 --> 00:27:24.499
Cate Tolnai (she/her): advice
00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:24.860
Lindy Hockenbary: goodness,
00:27:25.699 --> 00:27:26.869
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
a mo, like something,
00:27:27.010 --> 00:27:27.620
Lindy Hockenbary: something.
00:27:27.620 --> 00:27:31.975
What was, oh my gosh, where do I start?
00:27:34.435 --> 00:27:41.245
well, for one, I had no idea what I was
doing of, from like the consultant side.
00:27:42.844 --> 00:27:43.684
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it matter?
00:27:45.094 --> 00:27:45.904
Probably more.
00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:47.680
Lindy Hockenbary: Yes, yes and no.
00:27:48.130 --> 00:27:49.660
I mean, I can't go back and change it.
00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:52.870
It is what it is, and it
brought me to where I am now.
00:27:56.260 --> 00:27:56.890
oh man.
00:27:56.890 --> 00:27:59.320
You're just hitting me
with the tough questions.
00:27:59.404 --> 00:27:59.974
Cate Tolnai (she/her): like you gotta
00:28:00.040 --> 00:28:00.640
Lindy Hockenbary: Yeah.
00:28:00.689 --> 00:28:00.849
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it.
00:28:00.909 --> 00:28:01.529
That's okay.
00:28:02.815 --> 00:28:05.185
Lindy Hockenbary: You know,
I, I, here, here's what it is.
00:28:05.485 --> 00:28:08.785
I, I told, I told you about like the
ups, the cycles and the ups and downs.
00:28:08.785 --> 00:28:12.685
We had the iPad craze and then the Google
craze and then the, then the Chromebooks
00:28:12.685 --> 00:28:15.895
and then the stem steam make of
learning and you know, on and on and on.
00:28:15.895 --> 00:28:20.155
And sometimes they were happening and at
the same time, you know, type of thing.
00:28:20.485 --> 00:28:25.585
And I would get so busy supporting
educators on those things.
00:28:25.615 --> 00:28:28.075
'cause that's what
schools were asking for.
00:28:29.125 --> 00:28:33.775
And I would at times try to be like,
oh, hey, we should also talk about this.
00:28:34.255 --> 00:28:34.765
Right?
00:28:34.855 --> 00:28:37.195
But schools were like, oh,
nope, nope, nope, nope.
00:28:37.225 --> 00:28:38.485
We just need to figure out how to use
00:28:38.539 --> 00:28:40.609
Cate Tolnai (she/her): being digital
citizenship or this being like
00:28:40.609 --> 00:28:42.619
literacy, like digital literacy stuff.
00:28:43.690 --> 00:28:46.630
Lindy Hockenbary: I gave this example, so
I have a book on that's focused on online
00:28:46.630 --> 00:28:50.590
virtual learning, but it's also just
great for digital teaching in general.
00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:51.610
Okay.
00:28:51.670 --> 00:28:51.970
All right.
00:28:51.970 --> 00:28:56.860
I'm not that I'm calling out, but, but so
I wrote, I ended up writing it when during
00:28:56.860 --> 00:29:00.880
the pandemic because everybody was like,
help me, and I created all these resources
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.170
and it just kind of turned into a book.
00:29:02.470 --> 00:29:06.550
But a few years before that, I
had been, for example, submitting
00:29:06.610 --> 00:29:08.080
sessions to conferences.
00:29:08.080 --> 00:29:10.390
I had submitted it to several
conferences, and the whole idea
00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:14.800
was this idea of like, don't be the
Wizard of Oz on the screen, and this
00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:17.080
whole idea of like hybrid, blended.
00:29:18.445 --> 00:29:22.765
virtual learning and using, at the
time it was Nearpod using the tool
00:29:22.765 --> 00:29:29.005
Nearpod to do more like hybrid virtual
learning type stuff and trying to get
00:29:29.275 --> 00:29:32.965
teachers in schools to realize like,
Hey, you could use this for snow days.
00:29:33.175 --> 00:29:35.875
You could use this potentially
if, you know there's kids that
00:29:35.875 --> 00:29:39.505
are sick that can come to school,
you could use this as a backup.
00:29:39.565 --> 00:29:42.235
Backup plan if like, school
buildings have to shut down.
00:29:42.235 --> 00:29:43.495
So I was like saying that.
00:29:43.495 --> 00:29:44.035
And guess what?
00:29:44.245 --> 00:29:46.855
Not a single conference
accepted that proposal.
00:29:46.915 --> 00:29:46.975
Wow.
00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:47.959
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Wow.
00:29:49.009 --> 00:29:49.279
What
00:29:49.495 --> 00:29:50.755
Lindy Hockenbary: And then it was fast.
00:29:51.805 --> 00:29:55.555
It was probably 2016, 17,
18, somewhere around there.
00:29:55.675 --> 00:29:56.125
Right.
00:29:56.125 --> 00:30:01.615
Fast forward a few years to 2020, March
of 2020, even January of 2020, honestly,
00:30:01.615 --> 00:30:06.175
schools were already starting to shut
down in certain places and they were
00:30:06.175 --> 00:30:11.305
desperate for that kind of stuff, and
everybody was like, just like, Hey, help.
00:30:11.395 --> 00:30:11.785
Right?
00:30:11.785 --> 00:30:12.475
That's just.
00:30:12.895 --> 00:30:17.515
I should have pushed more and
not gotten out of my busyness.
00:30:17.575 --> 00:30:18.385
That's one example.
00:30:18.385 --> 00:30:23.215
The other example is I had been
talking about AI and I had been
00:30:23.245 --> 00:30:27.505
hinting that I had been submitting
conference proposals about ai.
00:30:27.775 --> 00:30:31.105
I wanna say starting about
2020 because people chat.
00:30:31.375 --> 00:30:33.685
By the way, it is November
14th, we're recording this.
00:30:33.955 --> 00:30:37.915
The three year anniversary of
ChatGPT, I believe is November 30th.
00:30:38.010 --> 00:30:40.380
Exactly, I think is the
day that it came out.
00:30:40.384 --> 00:30:41.194
Cate Tolnai (she/her): November.
00:30:41.350 --> 00:30:43.540
Lindy Hockenbary: Yeah, it's
like, it was like the last day of
00:30:43.540 --> 00:30:44.950
November, so it's easy to remember.
00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:48.640
November, I think it was right around
November 30th, 2022 is when Chatt PT
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:53.770
was released to the public and anybody
for free could go log into Chatt PT.
00:30:53.770 --> 00:30:57.040
Now you don't even have to log
in right, for free and use it.
00:30:57.220 --> 00:30:59.740
So that's when like generative ai, like.
00:31:00.325 --> 00:31:01.465
Hard launched.
00:31:01.465 --> 00:31:02.725
It wasn't a soft launch.
00:31:02.815 --> 00:31:06.895
Hard launched into the world so
that anybody had access to it.
00:31:06.895 --> 00:31:12.775
But guys, the GPT large language
models had been being embedded into
00:31:12.835 --> 00:31:17.245
tools and enterprise level tools
since, I wanna say about 2020 when
00:31:17.245 --> 00:31:21.505
I think it was GPT-3 started it,
it wasn't like chat GBT, right?
00:31:22.105 --> 00:31:25.285
The lar, the model was getting
integrated into other tools.
00:31:25.375 --> 00:31:27.145
So I had, actually, I tell
this story all the time.
00:31:27.205 --> 00:31:30.385
I had bought this tool
called Quickr, maybe like.
00:31:31.210 --> 00:31:34.360
Six to nine months before
chat GPT was released.
00:31:34.510 --> 00:31:37.060
'cause I was like, oh,
and I, I paid for it.
00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:37.960
I paid for it.
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.750
And now I look back and I'm like, oh my
gosh, I paid way too much money for it.
00:31:40.750 --> 00:31:44.170
But at the time I was so excited because
I was like, oh, one of my main goals
00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:46.300
is always to get more content out.
00:31:46.760 --> 00:31:50.540
And get it out faster to educators,
especially with a technology like AI
00:31:50.540 --> 00:31:52.700
that's moving so incredibly fast, right?
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.950
Like get it out as fast as I can.
00:31:54.950 --> 00:31:58.700
I sometimes do a decent job, sometimes
I do a horrible job of getting content
00:31:58.700 --> 00:32:01.970
out, but I purchased quick write 'cause
I was like, oh hey, this is really cool.
00:32:01.970 --> 00:32:06.410
This could help me get more
block posts out on my website
00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:10.790
to teachers about instructional
technology, anything and everything.
00:32:11.870 --> 00:32:14.630
and so I, I had, I had seen.
00:32:14.950 --> 00:32:16.960
The beginnings of generative ai.
00:32:17.050 --> 00:32:17.470
Right.
00:32:17.470 --> 00:32:22.030
And I was trying to tell educators, Hey
guys, we, we gotta pay attention to this.
00:32:22.030 --> 00:32:23.440
We can't be surprised.
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.270
We were surprised by COVID.
00:32:25.270 --> 00:32:28.870
We shouldn't have been, but we were, I
mean, bill Gates had been saying for years
00:32:28.870 --> 00:32:33.100
that a global pandemic was coming and
whether you wanna listen, listen to Bill
00:32:33.100 --> 00:32:37.840
Gates, but like, he's just one example of
like really smart people out there that
00:32:37.840 --> 00:32:39.400
have been saying, Hey, this is coming.
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:40.150
We need to prepare.
00:32:40.825 --> 00:32:43.135
I was doing the same thing,
like, Hey, this is coming.
00:32:43.135 --> 00:32:45.415
We need to prepare, and then guess what?
00:32:45.685 --> 00:32:47.695
Education completely blindsided.
00:32:47.845 --> 00:32:52.105
So wrapping that all around to answer your
question like what would I do differently?
00:32:52.375 --> 00:32:58.705
I would push more and try to not get
wrapped up in just what is here right now.
00:32:58.705 --> 00:33:00.385
Like we gotta figure out
how to use Chromebooks.
00:33:00.475 --> 00:33:03.595
I still do that and that's very
relevant to what the teacher needs that
00:33:03.595 --> 00:33:06.355
moment, but try to push more to have.
00:33:06.970 --> 00:33:10.690
Education, formal education, K
12 education in general, not be
00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:13.870
blindsided by these emerging texts.
00:33:13.870 --> 00:33:17.800
It's really, it's a lot trickier
right now with AI because it really
00:33:17.800 --> 00:33:23.620
is moving so fast and it, every time
we get a new AI model or a new text to
00:33:23.620 --> 00:33:27.730
image generator or a new text to video
creator, it's just put out into the
00:33:27.730 --> 00:33:29.830
world for everybody to have access to.
00:33:30.340 --> 00:33:35.770
You know, so like I, I don't think
people realize that anybody can go
00:33:35.770 --> 00:33:41.710
and create a cinematic quality video
by writing a text prompt right now.
00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:47.500
And had, and I don't know if education
has fully wrapped their brain around yes,
00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:53.530
the curricular effects and instructional
effects of that, but the societal effects.
00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:00.880
Of that and how we meet of everybody being
creators or of the potential Yes, but also
00:34:01.120 --> 00:34:02.470
the good, that's the good part about it.
00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:06.850
If you know me, I, my, one of my other
mottos is nothing's black or white.
00:34:06.850 --> 00:34:07.780
Everything is gray.
00:34:08.770 --> 00:34:11.380
So every technology has
really good things and every
00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:13.540
technology has really bad things.
00:34:13.720 --> 00:34:15.490
Every, like, you can
look everything, right?
00:34:15.490 --> 00:34:18.190
Everything in life has good
things and bad things, and there's
00:34:18.190 --> 00:34:19.300
nothing that's black and white.
00:34:20.290 --> 00:34:25.570
If you find yourself with anything in life
in the black or white side of something,
00:34:25.870 --> 00:34:29.650
you're probably not in the right spot.
00:34:29.740 --> 00:34:33.190
You need to shift and find the gray in
the middle, like I'm, I'm not telling.
00:34:33.190 --> 00:34:37.630
When you start thinking that way in life,
you can find, you start finding like it,
00:34:37.630 --> 00:34:39.730
it applies to almost everything in life.
00:34:39.730 --> 00:34:40.495
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:40.660 --> 00:34:42.160
You start asking questions
differently, right?
00:34:42.310 --> 00:34:43.780
You start asking questions differently.
00:34:43.780 --> 00:34:47.740
You start evaluating and fact checking
and thinking about things differently of,
00:34:47.740 --> 00:34:49.930
oh, I feel like I'm way over in the white.
00:34:50.380 --> 00:34:53.170
I need to ask more questions and look
into more like shift into the gray.
00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:56.170
So anyway, I apply that shift into the
00:34:56.209 --> 00:34:59.479
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Titling
our podcast Shift into the gray.
00:34:59.509 --> 00:34:59.539
Okay.
00:34:59.560 --> 00:35:02.980
Lindy Hockenbary: into the gray, but
it's, it's the same way with ai, right?
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:05.830
So when you think, okay, everybody
can create a cinematic quality
00:35:05.830 --> 00:35:08.980
video right now, the good part
about that is holy cow equity.
00:35:09.310 --> 00:35:16.390
So that kid who wants to be the next
Steven Spielberg, that in 10 years ago,
00:35:16.390 --> 00:35:19.420
that would've been incredibly difficult
'cause he would've had to bought.
00:35:19.990 --> 00:35:24.550
You know, really expensive video equipment
that his family doesn't have the money
00:35:24.550 --> 00:35:30.130
for whatever is now able to just go
and access SOA or clean or name any of
00:35:30.130 --> 00:35:31.990
the other video generators out there.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:32.950
What is Google?
00:35:32.950 --> 00:35:34.540
Google's, is it video?
00:35:34.540 --> 00:35:35.200
Is Google Video?
00:35:35.200 --> 00:35:35.260
Yeah,
00:35:35.389 --> 00:35:36.079
Cate Tolnai (she/her): banana.
00:35:36.225 --> 00:35:36.625
Lindy Hockenbary: Banana.
00:35:36.979 --> 00:35:37.429
Cate Tolnai (she/her): is it?
00:35:37.485 --> 00:35:37.945
Lindy Hockenbary: Oh, okay.
00:35:37.985 --> 00:35:38.225
I don't,
00:35:38.449 --> 00:35:39.439
Cate Tolnai (she/her): are
calling, I, I don't know.
00:35:39.444 --> 00:35:40.129
I, I see.
00:35:40.129 --> 00:35:40.429
Go
00:35:40.505 --> 00:35:40.865
Lindy Hockenbary: I dunno,
00:35:41.029 --> 00:35:41.359
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Okay.
00:35:41.359 --> 00:35:41.959
Maybe I'm wrong.
00:35:41.959 --> 00:35:42.979
I should checking.
00:35:43.145 --> 00:35:43.945
Lindy Hockenbary: I don't, I don't know.
00:35:44.170 --> 00:35:45.430
I haven't heard Banana.
00:35:45.430 --> 00:35:46.660
We need to fact check that one.
00:35:47.845 --> 00:35:52.915
Google also has this crazy one by the way,
that creates like immersive 3D worlds.
00:35:52.915 --> 00:35:55.585
I don't think it's been officially
released, but they've like teased at it.
00:35:55.585 --> 00:35:56.515
Anyway, moral of the story.
00:35:56.545 --> 00:36:00.325
There's a lot out there and like,
and a lot of it's free, or at
00:36:00.325 --> 00:36:01.705
least you get the basics for free.
00:36:01.735 --> 00:36:08.455
So there's the good side of like the text
to video stuff, the bad side, deep fakes.
00:36:09.355 --> 00:36:10.195
That's the huge one.
00:36:10.465 --> 00:36:14.065
I was listening to someone recently,
it was a panel or a podcast or
00:36:14.065 --> 00:36:16.915
something, and he said that.
00:36:17.350 --> 00:36:22.150
It's not a matter of if your school
will be hit by a deep fake, it's when,
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:26.260
so if you don't have a deep fake policy
or you know, some sort of policy or
00:36:26.260 --> 00:36:32.050
something and a plan of what to do
when that deep fake hits like you're
00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:34.390
already behind, you know, type of thing.
00:36:34.390 --> 00:36:36.340
So that's, that's the con side.
00:36:37.270 --> 00:36:42.280
That's the black side, if you may,
of the text to video generation.
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:42.310
I
00:36:42.454 --> 00:36:42.784
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that.
00:36:43.189 --> 00:36:43.759
I do.
00:36:43.759 --> 00:36:44.149
And I,
00:36:44.165 --> 00:36:44.385
Lindy Hockenbary: do.
00:36:44.539 --> 00:36:46.579
Cate Tolnai (she/her): there's
something about accepting
00:36:46.645 --> 00:36:48.685
Lindy Hockenbary:
Accepting the gray and not
00:36:48.829 --> 00:36:49.039
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it.
00:36:49.075 --> 00:36:49.795
Lindy Hockenbary: avoiding it.
00:36:49.915 --> 00:36:53.815
That's really empowering because
I think especially like with the
00:36:53.815 --> 00:36:55.410
examples you're giving and just
00:36:55.939 --> 00:36:56.389
Cate Tolnai (she/her): just the,
00:36:56.575 --> 00:36:56.935
Lindy Hockenbary: media,
00:36:57.289 --> 00:36:57.409
Cate Tolnai (she/her): of
00:36:57.445 --> 00:37:00.175
Lindy Hockenbary: the onslaught of
media that we're all experiencing,
00:37:00.175 --> 00:37:03.655
like we, there needs to be the
criticality that I think you
00:37:03.655 --> 00:37:05.725
suggesting with acknowledging gray.
00:37:05.725 --> 00:37:05.905
And
00:37:06.094 --> 00:37:06.874
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Especially like
00:37:06.955 --> 00:37:10.465
Lindy Hockenbary: especially like every
conversation I've had around ai, there
00:37:10.465 --> 00:37:12.535
will be someone or someone in the room,
00:37:12.814 --> 00:37:13.594
Cate Tolnai (she/her): concerns and
00:37:13.705 --> 00:37:14.605
Lindy Hockenbary: concern, and.
00:37:14.674 --> 00:37:16.474
Cate Tolnai (she/her): trying to
dive into like, what, what's an
00:37:16.720 --> 00:37:19.360
Lindy Hockenbary: What, what's
an appropriate activating and
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.010
respectful way of acknowledging that?
00:37:21.010 --> 00:37:22.675
Like there's great, yep.
00:37:22.675 --> 00:37:23.155
There's great,
00:37:23.164 --> 00:37:23.824
Cate Tolnai (she/her): and
00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:25.180
Lindy Hockenbary: And, you
00:37:25.204 --> 00:37:25.744
Cate Tolnai (she/her): know
00:37:26.020 --> 00:37:26.500
Lindy Hockenbary: know, when
00:37:26.584 --> 00:37:26.854
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you do
00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:28.030
Lindy Hockenbary: you know
better, you do better.
00:37:28.030 --> 00:37:29.290
And we're working on knowing better.
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:30.730
And, and I, I'm not
00:37:30.844 --> 00:37:31.354
Cate Tolnai (she/her): much as I'm
00:37:31.390 --> 00:37:32.410
Lindy Hockenbary: it, as much as I'm like,
00:37:32.464 --> 00:37:33.214
Cate Tolnai (she/her): know, just kind
00:37:33.250 --> 00:37:34.210
Lindy Hockenbary: you
know, just kind of like
00:37:34.324 --> 00:37:34.714
Cate Tolnai (she/her): the gray
00:37:34.750 --> 00:37:38.080
Lindy Hockenbary: sitting in the gray
for a, and like letting that discomfort
00:37:40.084 --> 00:37:40.834
Cate Tolnai (she/her): activate me in
00:37:40.930 --> 00:37:42.040
Lindy Hockenbary: activate me in some way.
00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:45.250
I dunno where, I dunno how, but I'm just
sitting in it and not avoid it, you know?
00:37:45.364 --> 00:37:45.754
Cate Tolnai (she/her): what's really
00:37:45.790 --> 00:37:46.150
Lindy Hockenbary: Really great about
00:37:46.264 --> 00:37:46.864
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you just said.
00:37:46.864 --> 00:37:46.954
And
00:37:46.995 --> 00:37:47.595
Lindy Hockenbary: what you just said.
00:37:47.674 --> 00:37:48.754
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I think
00:37:48.835 --> 00:37:50.875
Lindy Hockenbary: I think we
could all benefit from that.
00:37:51.655 --> 00:37:56.680
That's one of my biggest messages
to educators is you can't avoid,
00:37:56.680 --> 00:37:58.150
you can't act like it doesn't exist.
00:37:58.150 --> 00:37:59.620
You can't just block and ban.
00:37:59.890 --> 00:38:04.810
You're taking yourself and your students
out of the conversation yourself,
00:38:04.810 --> 00:38:05.890
your students, even your community.
00:38:05.890 --> 00:38:09.640
You're taking yourself out of the
communication and now you have no voice
00:38:10.054 --> 00:38:10.264
Cate Tolnai (she/her): And
00:38:10.630 --> 00:38:14.110
Lindy Hockenbary: versus if you,
and it's so if you engage with it.
00:38:14.740 --> 00:38:17.380
And you can engage in
a very critical lens.
00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:18.280
That's okay.
00:38:18.670 --> 00:38:20.500
That's good, right?
00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:23.770
But now you have a voice
to say, Hey, you know what?
00:38:23.770 --> 00:38:27.610
I don't like this use of AI in education.
00:38:27.730 --> 00:38:30.730
Or, Hey, this is a, this could
be a really potential, really
00:38:30.730 --> 00:38:32.290
good use for AI in education.
00:38:32.380 --> 00:38:36.430
Because there's both, and we're seeing
products that have very much both ends
00:38:37.060 --> 00:38:42.460
of that spectrum of, oh, this is a really
good, purposeful, powerful use of ai.
00:38:43.060 --> 00:38:44.950
In education in some way.
00:38:44.950 --> 00:38:48.520
And then the other end of it where people
are going, oh, wait, no, this is not good.
00:38:48.520 --> 00:38:49.600
This is dangerous.
00:38:49.720 --> 00:38:51.760
You want to talk about anthropomorphism?
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.910
Like we don't want to, you know, you
know, and there's a huge debate about that
00:38:54.910 --> 00:38:56.830
in the education world, but guess what?
00:38:56.950 --> 00:39:01.210
There's a debate because people
are interacting, engaging, asking
00:39:01.210 --> 00:39:05.020
questions, thinking critically, and
not just being like, Nope, I'm gonna
00:39:05.020 --> 00:39:08.890
pull the wool over my eyes and act
like it doesn't exist, type of thing.
00:39:08.950 --> 00:39:09.010
I,
00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:09.709
Cate Tolnai (she/her): just think you're
00:39:09.790 --> 00:39:10.090
Lindy Hockenbary: I just
00:39:10.249 --> 00:39:11.119
Cate Tolnai (she/her): like the full court
00:39:11.350 --> 00:39:12.820
Lindy Hockenbary: the full class of, of
00:39:13.099 --> 00:39:13.759
Cate Tolnai (she/her): education
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:15.040
Lindy Hockenbary: education support.
00:39:15.095 --> 00:39:16.075
If I, if I do
00:39:16.129 --> 00:39:16.609
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that to
00:39:16.775 --> 00:39:19.450
Lindy Hockenbary: say that to
you, like I, what I love about
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:19.909
Cate Tolnai (she/her): about
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.435
Lindy Hockenbary: we talked about
and what I know your work is that
00:39:22.699 --> 00:39:23.869
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
exactly where to position
00:39:23.950 --> 00:39:24.030
Lindy Hockenbary: you know exactly
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:24.319
Cate Tolnai (she/her): to
00:39:24.395 --> 00:39:24.555
Lindy Hockenbary: position
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:26.449
Cate Tolnai (she/her): leaders
and decision makers, and you're
00:39:26.735 --> 00:39:28.660
Lindy Hockenbary: and
you're really good at also
00:39:28.699 --> 00:39:29.449
Cate Tolnai (she/her): conversations
00:39:29.530 --> 00:39:31.115
Lindy Hockenbary: conversations
and turning them into
00:39:31.129 --> 00:39:32.599
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
experiences for their teachers.
00:39:32.650 --> 00:39:33.310
Lindy Hockenbary: for their teachers.
00:39:33.370 --> 00:39:33.700
So
00:39:33.784 --> 00:39:34.294
Cate Tolnai (she/her): what I'm saying.
00:39:34.330 --> 00:39:35.140
Lindy Hockenbary: that's what I'm saying.
00:39:35.145 --> 00:39:35.275
And.
00:39:35.524 --> 00:39:37.384
Cate Tolnai (she/her): on the
ability to like support community
00:39:37.435 --> 00:39:40.375
Lindy Hockenbary: Support
community members and, and families
00:39:40.684 --> 00:39:41.404
Cate Tolnai (she/her): all of that.
00:39:41.485 --> 00:39:42.205
Lindy Hockenbary: all of that.
00:39:42.265 --> 00:39:45.505
And then to bring in the lens
of business, but then also the,
00:39:45.604 --> 00:39:46.744
Cate Tolnai (she/her): mentality of the
00:39:47.275 --> 00:39:48.685
Lindy Hockenbary: of
the classroom teacher.
00:39:48.745 --> 00:39:49.315
I just think
00:39:49.384 --> 00:39:50.434
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you have so much
00:39:50.545 --> 00:39:50.995
Lindy Hockenbary: so much
00:39:51.034 --> 00:39:51.724
Cate Tolnai (she/her): to offer
00:39:51.895 --> 00:39:52.555
Lindy Hockenbary: to offer.
00:39:52.615 --> 00:39:53.545
And you're not a,
00:39:53.614 --> 00:39:56.704
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
city planner like you.
00:39:56.704 --> 00:39:57.069
That's you.
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:58.555
Lindy Hockenbary: well,
you're way too nice.
00:39:58.555 --> 00:39:59.965
If I knew I was gonna get compliment.
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:00.979
Cate Tolnai (she/her): I'm
00:40:01.060 --> 00:40:03.340
Lindy Hockenbary: Coming
on the Bridge podcast.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:06.460
Well, I am a Cate fan as well.
00:40:06.799 --> 00:40:07.429
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Well, thank you.
00:40:08.779 --> 00:40:09.259
I,
00:40:09.940 --> 00:40:11.590
Lindy Hockenbary: Do some
pretty good work yourself.
00:40:11.590 --> 00:40:12.010
So,
00:40:12.109 --> 00:40:12.619
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you, thank you.
00:40:14.449 --> 00:40:15.139
my pleasure.
00:40:15.139 --> 00:40:15.379
I
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:15.790
Lindy Hockenbary: my pleasure.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.560
I feel like our show notes are gonna,
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:18.799
Cate Tolnai (she/her): there's
00:40:19.390 --> 00:40:20.770
Lindy Hockenbary: there's
like all the article.
00:40:20.839 --> 00:40:22.009
Cate Tolnai (she/her): like,
I want the EdWeek article.
00:40:22.129 --> 00:40:25.189
I want like, information
about that Montana museum.
00:40:25.189 --> 00:40:26.629
Like, I like all the things, right.
00:40:26.629 --> 00:40:29.254
But, but also just, just.
00:40:29.704 --> 00:40:30.334
I hope people
00:40:30.535 --> 00:40:31.555
Lindy Hockenbary: I hope people follow you
00:40:31.654 --> 00:40:32.044
Cate Tolnai (she/her): dial
00:40:32.095 --> 00:40:33.805
Lindy Hockenbary: and like
dial into who you're, your,
00:40:34.144 --> 00:40:36.904
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
your generosity, across
00:40:37.435 --> 00:40:38.575
Lindy Hockenbary: across social media.
00:40:38.575 --> 00:40:40.585
Like I really feel like you above
00:40:40.804 --> 00:40:41.284
Cate Tolnai (she/her): others,
00:40:41.365 --> 00:40:42.265
Lindy Hockenbary: many others, have
00:40:42.274 --> 00:40:42.754
Cate Tolnai (she/her): yourself as a
00:40:43.015 --> 00:40:43.975
Lindy Hockenbary: you,
yourself as a thought,
00:40:44.134 --> 00:40:44.914
Cate Tolnai (she/her): as an
00:40:44.995 --> 00:40:45.530
Lindy Hockenbary: as an
00:40:46.024 --> 00:40:46.504
Cate Tolnai (she/her): educator of.
00:40:46.945 --> 00:40:47.935
Lindy Hockenbary: educator of educators.
00:40:48.144 --> 00:40:48.684
Cate Tolnai (she/her): that is
00:40:48.775 --> 00:40:50.065
Lindy Hockenbary: And that is so
00:40:50.484 --> 00:40:50.784
Cate Tolnai (she/her): warms my
00:40:50.785 --> 00:40:51.085
Lindy Hockenbary: just
00:40:51.204 --> 00:40:51.324
Cate Tolnai (she/her): you
00:40:51.505 --> 00:40:51.805
Lindy Hockenbary: by heart,
00:40:51.834 --> 00:40:52.344
Cate Tolnai (she/her): think
00:40:52.410 --> 00:40:52.930
Lindy Hockenbary: because I think
00:40:53.004 --> 00:40:53.184
Cate Tolnai (she/her): get
00:40:53.275 --> 00:40:54.895
Lindy Hockenbary: it's easy
to get caught up in like,
00:40:55.014 --> 00:40:55.524
Cate Tolnai (she/her): this bring in
00:40:55.525 --> 00:40:55.945
Lindy Hockenbary: oh.
00:40:55.974 --> 00:40:56.574
Cate Tolnai (she/her):
or will this bring in
00:40:56.590 --> 00:40:58.690
Lindy Hockenbary: Money and we'll just
bring in the opportunity, especially when
00:40:58.690 --> 00:41:01.265
your whole world is contract, you're so,
00:41:01.374 --> 00:41:01.884
Cate Tolnai (she/her): generous
00:41:02.145 --> 00:41:04.745
Lindy Hockenbary: so generous with
what you give and how you offer it.
00:41:04.845 --> 00:41:05.905
So please keep,
00:41:06.084 --> 00:41:06.444
Cate Tolnai (she/her): sustain
00:41:06.545 --> 00:41:08.710
Lindy Hockenbary: as you keep the same,
that please keep giving because there's
00:41:08.710 --> 00:41:09.790
plenty of us out there that are like
00:41:09.954 --> 00:41:10.314
Cate Tolnai (she/her): it up.
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.900
Lindy Hockenbary: gobbling it up.
00:41:11.650 --> 00:41:11.950
Good.
00:41:11.950 --> 00:41:12.670
I'm glad.
00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:13.210
I'm glad.
00:41:13.210 --> 00:41:13.600
I'm glad.
00:41:13.660 --> 00:41:16.120
And yes, I just dropped
a brand new website.
00:41:16.270 --> 00:41:18.280
I haven't even announced it
like on socials or anything yet.
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:19.870
'cause we're still in the QA period.
00:41:20.590 --> 00:41:20.600
but.
00:41:21.220 --> 00:41:23.860
It's there, it's live, so lindy hawk.com,
00:41:23.860 --> 00:41:26.140
L-I-N-D-Y-H-O c.com
00:41:26.350 --> 00:41:28.270
and it, I'm so excited about it.
00:41:28.270 --> 00:41:34.150
It's got a much clearer ux, which
stands for user experience, which
00:41:34.150 --> 00:41:37.630
is very important, which is like the
whole process of like when you go
00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:40.990
to a product or a website and you
can either easily find what you want
00:41:40.990 --> 00:41:42.220
or easily not find what you want.
00:41:42.490 --> 00:41:45.220
My new website is very much
an improved ux, at least.
00:41:45.220 --> 00:41:47.710
I hope that was my goal,
to be able to find.
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:48.079
Cate Tolnai (she/her): playing
00:41:48.145 --> 00:41:48.265
Lindy Hockenbary: I was.
00:41:49.165 --> 00:41:49.765
Oh you were?
00:41:49.825 --> 00:41:50.245
Yay.
00:41:50.395 --> 00:41:54.265
So yes, I've got like, you know, a whole
resource section now that's full blog
00:41:54.265 --> 00:41:56.665
posts and events and webinars that I do.
00:41:57.835 --> 00:42:04.195
and I am working on adding lots and
lots more great stuff for educators.
00:42:04.195 --> 00:42:04.585
So,
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.359
Cate Tolnai (she/her): Well, thank you for
00:42:05.485 --> 00:42:05.605
Lindy Hockenbary: well
00:42:05.689 --> 00:42:06.409
Cate Tolnai (she/her): time
00:42:06.595 --> 00:42:06.835
Lindy Hockenbary: time
00:42:08.419 --> 00:42:08.749
Cate Tolnai (she/her): time.
00:42:09.535 --> 00:42:09.895
Lindy Hockenbary: alright.
00:42:10.105 --> 00:42:10.615
Thank you.