076: Self-Advocacy Can Be A Steep Uphill Battle (with Melissa Allen) [Seven Miscarriages, Horrible OBGYNs, Free Birth]

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My placenta wouldn't come out because of all the trauma.
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So the Obi got really impatient and she pulled really hard on my the umbilical cord.
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And I could feel the suction and everybody heard the pop in the room.
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And I thought, like, I'm going to end up in the OR with a hemorrhage here and no uterus.
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Hi, I'm Kayla Heater, follower of Jesus, wife and mother of five children, Christian childbirth educator in doula, and your host of the Surrendered Birth Stories Podcast, where we share God-centered birth stories, evidence-based birth education, and our pursuit of surrendering our birth plans to God.
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Let's get started.
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Hey everyone, happy Monday.
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Or I always forget it's not Monday for everybody listening to this, but happy week.
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I hope you are having a beautiful week.
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If you are anywhere near where I am in the triad of North Carolina, it has been gorgeous.
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We have had spring-like weather, upper 60s.
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Um, it's supposed to get to like 70 something tomorrow.
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Sunshine, beautiful.
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So weird.
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Um, but I'm grateful, you know, if it's not gonna be snowing, it might as well not be cold, in my opinion.
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So it's been great extra time outside.
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It's been wonderful just for the kids, because man, a couple weeks ago when we had like the super cold snap and it was super, super like bitter cold every day.
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We were only outside like, I don't know, an hour a day max.
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And it just, oof, you go a little stir crazy, a little Kevin feverish when you're inside with five kids all day.
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So the beautiful weather has been incredible.
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Speaking of spring like weather, our spring childbirth class is quickly approaching.
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Um, I already have two couples signed up looking for some more couples to take our spring childbirth class here in person.
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And that is um for summer due dates.
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So if you are due in June, July, or August, even the end of May maybe, or early September.
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But for those summer due dates, we are looking for some more couples to join our class.
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We are actually gonna start the last Sunday in March.
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So March 30th, and then we'll go through April except for Easter.
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So we're not gonna meet on Easter Sunday, which is the 20th, which will take us to the first Sunday in May.
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So it's technically March 30th through May 4th every Sunday evening except for Easter.
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So if you or somebody you know is looking for a class, we would absolutely love, love, love to have you in our class.
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It is fully comprehensive, fully Christian.
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I do not know of another in-person class here in the triad that is this thorough, I promise you, and also Christian.
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So please let me know, send me a message, um, or you know, share this with somebody else you think might be interested in the class.
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We would absolutely love to have them.
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All right, let's jump into this week's episode.
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Time after time after time after time, Melissa had fallen prey to the hands of the hospital system in Canada and their complete overmanagement of the birthing process, as well as their complete lack of humanity when it comes to such a sacred event.
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Then, thinking having a home birth with midwives would be worlds better, she was still left fighting for herself every step of the way through her pregnancy, labor, and postpartum.
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Then she experienced a series of losses that nobody should have to bear.
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And instead of getting the sympathy and respect she more than deserved, she was simply seen as a case to be handled and a box to be checked when she was going through one of the most gut-wrenching experiences of her life.
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Finally, for her eighth live birth, she desired to have the empowered, faith-led, free birth of her dreams if only God would allow it.
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Welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.
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I am your host, Kayla Heater, and I have Melissa with me today.
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Um, Melissa, why don't you just take a moment and introduce yourself and tell us about your family and your life and help us to get to know who we're talking to.
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Sure.
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So my name is Melissa Allen.
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I am a mom of 14.
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Um, eight children are with us, and seven are in God's garden.
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I homeschool, we homestead, and I am a traditional birth companion that support moms who want to birth outside the system with confidence and fearlessly.
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Oh, that's exciting.
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And where do you live?
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We are in Canada, in New Brunswick.
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Oh, cool.
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My sister just went to Canada for her honeymoon.
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Oh.
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Yeah, they had a they had a great time.
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They'd never been.
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I've actually never been either.
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All right.
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So let's take it all the way back to your first pregnancy.
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So tell us that story.
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Start there.
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What was it like getting pregnant for the first time?
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Yeah.
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So my husband and I, we pretty well got pregnant within a few months of getting married.
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I was an RN at the time.
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So I had been through clinicals where you go through each section of rotations, is what they call it, like whether it's maternity or a psych, or so you see a little bit of what it's like in the hospital before you decide where you kind of want to work.
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I was working as a an oncology nurse, which is cancer.
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And so I had been through the maternity rotation.
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And I remember um going through that rotation and thinking something is off.
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Um, it didn't seem right to me.
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Um, I remember women that were just, it seemed like they were kind of strapped down and not able to move and you know, really scared and unsure.
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And even though I had been through nursing, I just felt like there was something in me that just it just didn't seem natural what was going on.
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And so at the time, all I knew was hospital birthing, since that's what I came from.
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So I was determined to have like a natural hospital birth.
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So I did all the things, you know, went to the OBs and did all the testing that I was supposed to do, because you know, that's what you do when you do that.
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You wanna be like the good little girl type thing.
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And passed all the tests, you know.
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So I got the A-OK that just gonna wait till labor starts, no induction, nothing happened like that.
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So it was perfect.
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Um I did consent at 40 weeks because of fear mocking of the um, you know, pressuring, like, oh well, you know, you don't want to wait till 42.
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We can kind of um strip your membranes and see if we can get things started, you know, because if you go over, there's more possibility of a section, and you know, no mom wants to end up having surgery.
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So I consented.
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And I remember being in a lot of pain, but it caused lots of cramping and pain for a couple of days and then nothing.
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And then the following day, my water broke, and I was really excited, and I was like, oh, this is great, but I really wasn't having any contractions, just my water had broken.
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And so, you know, you do what every first mom does, like, quick, run to the hospital, our water broke.
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My husband was like nervously like packing last minute things, throwing things in the bag and stuff.
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So we got to the hospital and sure enough, they agreed that my water had broken and no contractions.
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Like I wasn't laboring at all.
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So they decided to come back in the morning and wait, they let you go home?
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Yeah, they did.
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Okay, so now that's amazing because that wouldn't happen in America.
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Yes.
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They would have held you in and put you on Pitocin.
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Which I thought was weird at the time because I remember thinking, like, well, sh you're technically according to their policies, like they don't want your water to be broken more than 12 hours.
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So that's why they suggested, well, morning.
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And if it doesn't happen anytime during that time, then they would put me on Pitocin, you know, which was a jerk to get things going.
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So I came in in the morning.
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I really wasn't doing much.
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You know, they would start and stop, start and stop.
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It was more, it felt more like Braxton Hicks than anything.
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They didn't actually end up putting me on Pitocin until the afternoon, which I was really surprised because it had been more than 12 hours.
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And of course, I had gotten checked a few times.
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But when they put me on the Pitocin, within a couple of hours, I the pain was too intense to manage.
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They had given me morphine.
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It really, like looking back on it at the time, like it felt like I was in transition, like I was getting no relief between contractions, and I consented to the epidural.
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Then I had uh side effects from the epidural.
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I had like uh that spinal type headache.
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My blood pressure was extremely high.
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They were throwing around the words preoclampsia.
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My placenta was starting to come out before she was.
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Oh man, like an abruption.
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Yeah, I was um like full-blown hives, and I was so sick, like to the the fact that I was like throwing up like buckets, like basins.
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And my nurse was like telling me, like, she's like, You're scaring me.
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And I'm pretty sure it was all a reaction to the epidural um that was going on.
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And then I started having like super high fevers and um the shaking to go with it.
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So I was thinking in my head, like, okay, now I have an infection going on.
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Anyways, I managed to avoid a section.
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I have no idea, other than by God's grace, lots of praying, lots of tears and that labor.
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Of course, the epidural ended up prolonging the labor.
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So it was like over 24 hours.
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And then with the epidural, I pushed for two and I I couldn't feel anything.
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So it was all, you know, directed from the the nurse that was beside me looking at the monitor.
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Okay, there's a contraction coming out.
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Like I couldn't feel anything.
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Um, even when she turned it down, I still couldn't.
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So that was my first.
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And because of all that stuff, she ended up with her own infection and in the NICU for a week and lots of nursing and pumping around the clock, antibiotics.
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I was impressed.
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Like I came home and I had no idea what to do with this baby.
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And I remember being depressed and teary myself because I was like, what just happened?
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You know, go in for this natural birth and you come out like what in the world?
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So, yeah, that was my first birth.
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And it was amazing that I wanted to have more children after that.
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She she was kind of um a rough baby too.
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And I think it was because of all the trauma and my own trauma, and just I felt like I didn't know what to do with her.
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It was sad, really, the whole situation.
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And so by the time baby two came, I decided yes, another hospital birth, because again, that's all I knew.
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And where I am in Canada, there was no registered midwives at the time because midwifery was illegal until 93.
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And then they brought it into Ontario, and then they slowly started legalizing it in different provinces.
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And New Brunswick um was one of the last provinces.
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So in midwifery didn't actually come until 2000, I want to say 15 or 16.
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Wow.
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I mean, there was always kind of like that underground movement of unregistered midwives, but at the time, I had no idea about that.
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So, what year was your daughter born then?
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Your first?
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She was born in 2011.
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Okay, so before midwifery had come.
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Gotcha.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I had done hospital birthing with number two, three, four, five, and six.
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And they the rest of them went better.
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Not nearly as traumatic, but they were still kind of interfered with.
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Um, I don't want to say not nearly as traumatic because some of them were were good and some of them were definitely not good after that.
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Um, my son, he he did well, he was number two.
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Um, and I was able to birth him without any issues.
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I chose not to have the epidural, and that was kind of like my eye-opening experience of like, wow, like I I can do this.
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Baby number three, he came a lot faster.
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I think he was born in six hours, no issues with him.
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He did have some meconium when they broke my waters, but he came out fairly quickly after that.
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So thankfully, no complications with that.
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Number four was when I experienced the um fetal ejection reflex.
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I was birthing her, and my nurse told me to wait.
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And I said, I can't wait.
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Like, she's coming.
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She's literally coming.
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And she's like, Well, you can't do it until the OB gets here.
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It's like, what?
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That was so odd to me.
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I'm like, You're a nurse though.
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Like, isn't this part of your job?
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And she was literally screaming at me, and I was like, She's coming, like, I can't, I can't do anything.
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Right.
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She almost ended up on the floor.
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The nurse just happened to be standing there and she was coming out.
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Were you on the floor?
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No, I wasn't on the floor, I was on the bed.
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But nobody was like trying to catch her or anything.
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No, no.
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What about your husband?
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Was he like up by your head?
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He was up by my head.
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Yeah.
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Oh man.
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No one was really paying attention to what was going on.
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Everybody was just kind of yelling at me, like to stop.
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But I was like, I can't, like, and she's coming.
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I kept saying, like, she's coming.
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So the nurse ended up swooping in and catching her then.
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Yeah, last minute, thankfully.
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Um, yeah.
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I know, I know.
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I I just look back now and think, wow, it's definitely like God's grace that intervened at these times.
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Um, number five, she was a little more traumatic.
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The nurse had asked me if I wanted some fentanyl when I came in.
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And I felt like I needed something to take the edge off because my fear of the hospitals by that time was just too much, like just instant anxiety.
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And my labors would always, my contractions would always slow right down when I got there.
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So I said yes.
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And that was the only one I took.
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And when I was getting ready to push, she I saw her pick up the a dose of fentanyl and push it in the IV.
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And I was shaking my head no, because at the time I couldn't speak.
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I was pushing her out and she wasn't listening to me, but she was looking right at me when I was shaking my head now.
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And she's like, Oh dear, like you just need a little bit to take the edge off while you're pushing.
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And I was like, no, like no, but I couldn't speak, you know, I was just shaking my head.
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Um, so she came out blue, not breathing.
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They had to give her narcan.
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And when they did, they were giving her oxygen, like they were bagging her with the amboo bag and they overinflated her lungs doing that.
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So she ended up with a hole in her lung and had to go to NICU.
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Thankfully, it was only for a few days, and my placenta wouldn't come out because of all the trauma.
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So the OB got really impatient and she pulled really hard on my the umbilical cord.
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Yeah.
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And I could feel the suction and everybody heard the pop in the room.
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And I thought, like, I'm going to end up in the OR with a hemorrhage here and no uterus because of what was going on.
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But thankfully that doesn't happen.
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I don't know how.
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Again, it was just by God's grace that that didn't happen.
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Um, and then number five, again, I had no, that was number five.
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Number six was in the hospital and he was he was a big baby.
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Um, they did end up giving me Pitocin, even though I was in labor on my own to keep it going because he wasn't coming.
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And I tried the position changes and nothing was working.
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So I agreed.
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And of course, he was on a tight schedule, the OB.
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It's hard to say no when you're in labor, you know, when all your hormones are kind of focusing on getting that baby out.
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And then, you know, they have a very good way of uh, I don't know, like talking to you to make it sound convincing, like, oh yeah, like this, you know, I should do this.
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Yeah.
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Well, you're also very vulnerable at that time.
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Like your hormones make you very submissive and and you're not like in your complete sober state of mind, like biologically speaking.
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No, and I think I think they take advantage of that when you're in there for sure.
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Did you guys have any doulas at any of your births, or was it always just you and your husband?
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It was always me and my husband until I ended up having birth with the midwives.
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Yeah.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:39.359
Okay, so you switched to midwives.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.559
Which birth did you end up switching from OBs to midwives?
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.319
Number seven, when we finally had like a registered midwife.
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:47.839
Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:49.519
So six still within OB.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:52.559
So six was yeah, six was hospital.
00:18:52.720 --> 00:19:00.000
He he was a big baby, he was over 10 pounds, like he was over the the limit for the um the sugar limit type thing.
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:00.640
Oh, oh, oh.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.599
Like they have that, they have that uh sugar test.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:05.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:15.759
The policy is if your baby is between like a certain above a certain weight, then they have to go to NICU because of the the blood sugar being too low or whatever.
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.319
So um I didn't get to hold him at all.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.799
Like they took him right away, saw he was a big baby, but just because he's big.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:25.519
Mm-hmm.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:26.240
Mm-hmm.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.720
I didn't get to do like any feeding, no clostrum, nothing.
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.480
Just took him away.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:34.160
Did they feed him?
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.160
Yes, they did.
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:42.240
Yeah, so needless to say, I wasn't too happy with that, but his sugar was fine.
00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:46.720
But they still had to monitor him overnight just in case.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:48.640
You know, their policy.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:54.480
They had to have so many positives or above a certain number in order to make it okay to bring him out.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.000
But he was another one that my placenta didn't come.
00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.359
Well, wonder why, right?
00:19:59.519 --> 00:19:59.839
I didn't.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.359
Get to hold my baby or anything.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.000
So that was you were disconnected right away.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:04.720
Right.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.119
And this OB was a different one.
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.920
And he pulled on my the cord again.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:10.880
Nothing came out.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.880
So he actually manually removed my pulsanta.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:16.880
He stuck his hand up in there.
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:17.759
Yeah.
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:18.720
Yeah.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:23.039
And how long after he pulled it out in pieces?
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:25.680
Melissa.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:26.720
Oh my gosh.
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.599
How long after the birth did he do that?
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.240
Oh, it was, I don't know, within a half hour, anyways.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.200
That's it.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:34.640
Only 30 minutes.
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.599
Yeah.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.079
Sometimes placenas can take a couple hours before they want to release.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.799
Yes.
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:42.079
Yeah, they do.
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:42.720
Yeah.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.920
I had never seen my husband like so white before.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:51.200
Like I thought he was like he was really good in births, but that was the birth that I thought he was going to pass out in.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.599
Like I and I I was just in shock.
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.440
Like I couldn't believe what was going on.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.440
I was like, oh my word, like what?
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.680
And of course, like I had meeting after.
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.839
So they were hanging bags of Potosin.
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:06.799
And so that was when I was like, okay, like I'm done.
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:08.319
Okay, I'm done.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.319
I said in like I I knew nothing about birthing unassisted.
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.319
And I said, even if I don't get accepted by the midwives, like I'm done.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:17.759
Like that's that's it.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.720
I'm done trying to give the hospital a chance.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:26.079
Yeah, you're you mean you're done with hospital birth, not done with having babies.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:27.599
No, no.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:28.160
Okay.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:34.720
Because we we've always wanted lots of children, you know, we love our our kids and love babies.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.400
And but yeah, I was definitely done with hospital birthing.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:39.680
That was it.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:46.640
So then number seven was would was with midwifery, my first experience with them.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.400
Um, and again, like they were registered midwifery.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:58.000
So I didn't think I had to fight for my home birth with them, but but I did.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:07.759
Anytime I had to test anything, you know, it was always, well, if this comes back this way, then you know, there's a chance you'll have to go to the the OB.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.759
I'm thinking there's no chance I'm going to the OB.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.839
Or, well, we're not sure if you're gonna have to have a home birth.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:17.920
Like it it really depends on the end.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.240
Like nobody can guarantee that one way or another.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.440
Like, I'm gonna guarantee it because I'm having a home birth.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:29.200
Like I just I just am like all throughout it, it was it was a fight.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:47.200
And I found that even saying no to certain tests and things, you know, every birth after I had researched more and more and more, um, dove deeper into the whys, and it was it was still a fight, which I thought that was really odd to me.
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:54.079
Because like honestly, it felt kind of deceptive because as a as a midwife, like that that's what you're supposed to be.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.160
You're supposed to be with women.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:02.240
I mean, an OB, I get it, you know, they're a surgeon, that's that's what they do.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:09.279
But an OB that was or a midwife that was, I don't, I was just kind of in shock, like, really?
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.519
Yeah, wow, like I can't believe this.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:20.240
And I remember near the end um of his pregnancy, they he was coming in February, right?
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:22.079
So like snowstorms up here.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.559
And there was a storm like a week before he came.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:31.200
And they're like, well, if he ends up coming in a snowstorm, we're not going.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:33.200
He's they're like, you have to go to the hospital.
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:38.240
I said, if it's storming, there is no way that I'm going in a host to the hospital either.
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:39.759
Like, why would I risk my life?
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:41.759
Like, I will have this baby at home.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.799
And they were really like fear-mongering, like, you can't do that.
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:45.920
Like, what if something happens?
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.759
And I said, What if nothing happens?
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:49.519
What if everything goes right?
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:50.319
You know?
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:58.720
And near the end, they were telling me, you're gonna end up being induced and if if you go past 42 weeks.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.960
And so I agreed to multiple sweeps.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.359
Like, I had never had so many sweeps in the end of a pregnancy before.
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.079
And I remember the last sweep that I had, like breaking down crying.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:14.400
The midwife was like, Oh, what's wrong?
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.759
And I was like, I just want a home birth.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.160
Like, that's all I want.
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:26.559
And she looked at me and she said, you know, even if you have to birth in the hospital, it's not that bad.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.920
We'll make it like home.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.559
I said, No, it's not gonna be like home.
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.839
And I was just so teary and crying.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:38.160
And she just acted like it was, you know, not a big deal.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:39.359
Like it's okay.
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:40.559
Like it's not okay.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:41.920
Like you have no idea.
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.519
Like, and I think with just everything having to fight with them, like the whole time.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:57.440
So, what happened with his was I went home because they told me I was exactly 42 weeks according to my date.
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:03.680
And they had called the hospital and they had me booked for an induction the next day.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:05.839
At like 42 plus one.
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:06.880
Yeah.
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.680
And I told my husband, I'm like, I'm not going in.
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:10.960
I'm not going in.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.359
So I decided to induce myself.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:21.279
I got some castor oil and I did the midwife's brew a couple of times.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:22.880
Horrible, awful.
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.440
Nothing happened, thankfully.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:31.279
And then I brought out my pump and I started pumping, and that broke my water.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:42.400
And thankfully, he was in somewhat of a good position, or else I can see now, like looking back, like while those would have been a terrible thing to do.
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:52.480
But I feel like as a mom who's desperate, you know, you're moms are willing to do anything to if you really want to avoid a hospital birth and something traumatic, like they really will.
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.119
So labor started like right away, and it was intense.
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:58.960
Like right after your water broke.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:25:59.440
Yeah.
00:25:59.519 --> 00:25:59.680
Okay.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:00.480
I had a doula.
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.759
So I called her and Ash to come over for some pain relief.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.240
And um, things were picking up.
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:18.240
And my plan in my mind was I was waiting to the last possible minute to call a midwifery, even to go unassisted and call them near the end when everything was done.
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.960
But since I had a doula there, she was not for I didn't tell her the plan.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.559
She just kept saying, I think you should call midwifery.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.079
I think you should call midwifery.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:32.799
And I was like, no, just just a little bit longer, just a little bit longer.
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:38.319
Um, so even then, like I still felt like I was fighting for her, like with her, right?
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:39.359
What I wanted.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:41.920
That's not what you want to do during your labor.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.640
No, no, it was still like still a fight.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.240
So I ended up calling.
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:51.039
Um, they came and I told them my water broke, and then they said the strangest thing to me.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.559
They're like, Oh, like, did did the the cord come out?
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:55.519
I was like, What?
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:56.240
What do you mean?
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.119
I was like, no, like, well, can you feel the cord up there?
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.640
I was like, no, like, are you not gonna tell me something?
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:07.839
And they're like, oh, well, uh, does he feel like he's you know dropped any?
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.079
Because he hadn't dropped and and all my babies had dropped previously.
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.880
And I was like, no, and then that was it.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.039
Okay, they're like, hey, well, we're on our way.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:18.640
So they showed up.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:26.240
Um, and he was kind of how he was sitting, he was wasn't straight up, he was kind of a little bit angled like that.
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:36.000
So when the midwife came, she during a contraction, she kind of like pushed him a little bit, and he went head down like immediately, dropped like that.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:40.480
And so as soon as she did that, I was ready to push.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:46.880
I did have uh a birthing pool, so went in there to push him out and he came out.
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:50.720
We had his cord around his neck, but it was fine.
00:27:50.880 --> 00:28:05.279
We just um unwrapped him and Lucente came out, no issues, but I agreed to a shot because again of the fear-mongering with the midwifery, because they're like, Oh, well, you know, if something happens, like you're going in.
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:12.960
If you end up having some sort of hemorrhaging or something, and you don't agree to the shot, like we're taking you into the hospital.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:20.079
So they wanted to give you a shot of Pitocin, like prophylactically, like just yeah, just in case, yeah.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:26.640
So I agree because even though I had told them, like, I'm like my hemorrhaging has always been doing the hospital.
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.759
Like, I've never hemorrhaged on my own, like in the hospital.
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.599
And I've told them that in my birth stories, but it didn't matter.
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.279
Like it was more for their fear, you know, their concern.
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:38.880
And then they passed it on to me.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.319
So it's like, okay, well, I bet I better do this, like just in case.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:44.000
So I did that too.
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.920
Thankfully, nothing happened.
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:55.359
And honestly, afterwards, like I felt like it was a good birth, but when I had time to process it, I was I was really disappointed.
00:28:55.519 --> 00:29:01.920
I was like, wow, it's like just the whole journey and the fighting to get where I wanted to be.
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:07.119
And it just, I don't know, it still felt like there was some sort of disconnect.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.599
It didn't feel like this amazing experience that I that I wanted to have.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.880
I didn't feel didn't feel redemptive at all.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:22.960
Yeah, because you were having to fight for yourself the whole pregnancy and labor and after labor.
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:25.680
Like the fight sounds like it never stopped.
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:28.880
No, I know, but didn't.
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.880
And I was just really, really disappointed with everything.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:38.400
So that was baby number seven.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:40.160
That was baby number seven.
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:44.160
I know you said you had seven babies in heaven.
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:45.839
Right.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:52.480
Were those like throughout your other pregnancies, or when did when did that happen?
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:59.519
So I had uh early miscarriage between baby number three and four.
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:06.400
And then I had six consecutive losses after baby number seven.
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:10.480
So this was going into COVID.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:15.200
Three of them were early, and then three of them were second trimester.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:16.079
Wow.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.599
They definitely uh gutted me.
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:31.119
So it was technically baby number eight, just at the beginning of when things started to go in lockdown in 2020, like when things started coming this way.
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:40.240
So I was yeah, I was 14 weeks pregnant and I was still choosing to go to midwifery, but just for the prenatals.
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.880
I wasn't willing to let that go just yet.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.799
Um, but my plan was to birth unassisted at home.
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.599
No doula, just my husband and I.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.319
I was like, no, I'm done.
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.720
But yeah, like I said, I wasn't quite done with the with the care.
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.000
I don't know why.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:01.279
I just was kind of like the last thing to go.
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:02.079
Yeah.
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:03.759
I had my first appointment.
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.599
Um, they I asked them not to use a Doppler the first time.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.720
The second time I went in, they had asked.
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:20.559
And I don't know, I just felt like I didn't know if something was off or not, but for some reason, part of me felt like I needed to have it done.
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:21.599
The Doppler.
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:23.039
Yeah, the Doppler.
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:27.920
I noticed that around 12 weeks, you know, my nausea was non-existent.
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:37.039
And for me, I usually have nausea throughout off and on, and but to to kind of like stop, it was was weird.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:48.640
And I just, you know, I didn't feel as tired, and just a lot of other pregnancy symptoms were kind of not there, but I really I just that found it odd.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:55.680
I didn't really put that it could be scary because you know, I was past that that 12-week mark.
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:57.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.799
So I had gone in and I said, Yeah, yeah, let's do a Doppler.
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:04.079
And she couldn't find anything.
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.160
And she's like, Oh, well, you know, it's still early.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.480
And I said, I I don't buy that.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:12.640
Yeah, not at 14 weeks.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:20.559
No, I I'm a small person, anyways, and I've always even at eight weeks, like they've always been able to pick up the baby right away.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:26.240
And so she listened around and she's like, Well, you know, why don't we just get an ultrasound?
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:27.599
We'll book it tomorrow.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:36.240
Because I was at the end of the day, and I just knew I knew, you know, there wasn't going to be any heartbeat.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:43.440
Um, so I started crying and she was like, Oh no, no, like I'm sure it's not anything, like the baby's fine.
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:48.160
And I'm thinking in my head, I how can you reassure that?
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:51.200
Like, or is this for your reassurance or for me?
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.599
Like it just felt really awkward.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:56.160
So it was actually my son's birthday.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:06.319
Wasn't much of a birthday when I came home and told my husband, since it was during COVID, you know, no one was allowed to go through, go to appointments with you and all that stuff, right?
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.839
Yeah, and so I had to go to ultrasound the next day by myself, which you know was awful in and of itself.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.119
And they did the ultrasound, and sure enough, you know, the tech was there.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.640
And I said, Well, is there a heartbeat?
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:22.799
And she's like, I'm not allowed to say either way.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.720
Are you serious?
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.759
I said, just let me know.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:32.240
Like, I'm sure you can tell whether there's a heartbeat or not, like on the screen.
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.839
Anyway, she refused and she's like, I gotta go talk with the um radiologist.
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:38.720
I knew.
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.000
Like, when obviously do you need to talk with the radiologist?
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:46.559
If I've never had that happen with any of the other, you know, pregnancies.
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:50.319
They're usually like, oh, here's a picture, you know, things look great.
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:53.519
I'm just gonna double check to make sure everything's okay, and then you can go.
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:54.960
Like, that's usually how it goes.
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:59.039
Like, yeah, there was no picture, no, it was automatically like, well, I gotta go.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:33:59.680
Yeah.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:00.160
Okay.
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:00.880
So I knew.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:01.759
So you knew.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:02.319
Yeah.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:03.119
I knew.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:08.239
So the radiologist came in and he said, you know, there is there is no heartbeat.
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:12.960
And it was very cold, like just in how he approached it.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:19.360
And the radiologist was just there was no feeling there, you know, which seemed to make it worse.
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:21.440
It's like this was just his job.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:28.559
Um, you know, that was just maybe a baby, maybe not a baby, depending on his definition of what a baby is.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:34.159
And then even the tech, you know, there's I remember seeing like Kleenexes sitting there.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.519
I was crying, and she wouldn't even offer me a Kleenex.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:40.960
I remember sitting there thinking, like, how how awful is this?
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:50.000
Like, I'm here without my husband because I'm not allowed because of your rules, you know, and could this be any more isolating at all?
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:55.360
And then they just said, Well, go wait in the waiting room for um the midwives to call you.
00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:57.440
I'm thinking, for what?
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.639
Like, what do they need to say to me?
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:07.840
So I called my husband while I was waiting and told him, of course, he was devastated and upset.
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:12.800
And then I just waited for midwifery because I couldn't go home.
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.519
I needed to take some time off.
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.000
I think I ended up going to a park and just waiting there.
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:25.199
So I got the call and you know, right away, oh, I'm sorry.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:26.880
Um, here's your options.
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:34.559
You know, you can wait it out, you can get a DNC, or you can take the pill as a prostatal.
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.920
And I said, okay, I was like, well, I would really like to wait it out.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:39.519
No, no, you can't do that.
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:42.719
I thought that was an option.
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:47.039
Oh, yeah, but you know, your chances of infection and hemorrhage go way up.
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:49.280
So, you know, we don't really recommend that.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:56.719
So you should either you we should get you in with the OB to do a DNC or um the pill.
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.119
I said, I need to talk with my husband.
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:02.079
And I said, and can I have like at least a week?
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:05.199
Like, can like does this have to be done right now?
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.239
You know, he had died at 13 weeks.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.199
So it was only a a week technically.
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:16.400
And they're like, okay, but how about we just give you like three days and that's it?
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.239
Um, and then you can make your decision.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.840
Like it was really like pushy.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:24.320
Like I felt like it was like a like a sales call almost, right?
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:25.119
Yeah.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:33.599
Um, so when I talked to my husband, we talked it over and we chose to do the missapostal.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:45.119
I really wanted to do the waiting it out, but with my other kids and my husband, you know, his work schedule, not knowing whether he would be around, and I had no other help at that time.
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:45.760
Yeah.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:47.519
I didn't know what was gonna happen.
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:49.840
So we chose the missapostal.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:51.519
They went to the OB's.
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.000
That was scary in and of itself.
00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:58.719
Um, they were really, really pushy and just really cold.
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:08.400
They had their little their wrote sayings, you know, already, like any questions, like da-da-da-da-da, and this, like right, like memorized, right?
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:10.960
Like how you you kind of feel when you go there.
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:14.719
So I got the pill and took it.
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:21.840
I can't remember the exact dose, but I took it and then immediately after I took it, I just felt like I just did the worst thing in my life.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:22.960
Like I shouldn't have done this.
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:26.800
I should just, I just felt instant guilt for doing this.
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:29.599
Why do you why do you think you felt guilty?
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:32.800
Um I don't know.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:39.280
I felt like I should have honored him more, I guess, just by waiting.
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.960
Letting it happen actually.
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:54.719
Yeah, so I labored all night and it was definitely labor pains.
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:59.280
I took lots of um red raspberry leaf tea and nettles.
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:06.159
I made some big infusions and drank those all through the night to with any sort of bleeding.
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.960
And the next morning it was about 8:30.
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:20.000
I was sitting on the couch with the kids and I felt like a block in my underwear.
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.280
And I went to the bathroom and there he was.
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:28.480
Sorry.
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:30.719
No, don't apologize.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:32.239
You don't need to apologize.
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:34.320
This is really, really hard.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:41.599
But I'm really appreciative of your vulnerability and transparency and willingness to tell this story.
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:43.360
Thank you.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:39:05.599
Um yeah, so the kids all got to hold him and yeah, like you could tell he was he was a little boy and we called our priest and he came over and called the the home, the funeral home.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:14.480
And they came and picked him up and we ended up having a burial within a few days after just to help.
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:23.760
I just I had to I think maybe it was a week roughly just to help with my bleeding and stuff, just to make sure everything was okay on my end.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:32.320
So that was that day, and then the I had called midwifery and let them know.
00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:39.119
And they said, Okay, um, just let us know if what if there's any bleeding that picks up and all that stuff.
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:52.239
So the next day I had I thought, well, I thought I had delivered my placenta, but I didn't realize like how big it was supposed to be at um 14 weeks.
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.679
Because it was like the shape of uh a grapefruit.
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:57.840
I had like this grapefruit at the time.
00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:59.760
Thought it was my placenta, but it was a clot.
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:00.880
That came out.
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:02.719
So I thought everything was good.
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:09.039
The next day I had a giant piece of placenta come out and my bleeding picked up.
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:13.840
And I called me with her because they had said, you know, if anything changes or whatever, let us know.
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:22.400
And I called them, and the midwife who answered said to me, Okay, well, what do you want me to do about it?
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:29.440
And I said, Well, I was told that I was to call you if any bleeding or anything picked up.
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:32.480
And she's like, Yeah, well, you just go to the hospital.
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:36.639
I was like, Okay, thanks so much.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.239
Like, I had no idea what else to say.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:46.159
Um, totally floored at the lack of care and concern.
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:46.960
Yeah.
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:56.400
Um, I didn't end up going in, like my bleeding subsided, but I did go in the following day for an ultrasound just to see what was going on.
00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:01.199
And sure enough, you know, everything was as far as my placenta was still there.
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.639
So I did have to go in and do a DNC.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.400
I didn't even bother calling midwifery and telling them any of that.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:13.760
I just was like, forget it, you know, I'm done with them as as well, I guess.
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:22.639
So midwifery ended up calling me like a couple of days later, and they're like, Oh, like we got a report saying that you had like a DNC.
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:23.920
Is everything okay?
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:27.119
And I was like, Well, no, like it's not okay, you know.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:30.719
And I was talking about like grief and this is my baby and all that stuff.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.960
And they were talking about, you know, physically, is everything fine physically?
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.480
They they didn't do any sort of check-ins after that.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:44.639
It was kind of like, okay, well, you know, we're wrapped up with you, we're done with you, um, kind of thing.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:46.079
Like, good luck.
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:48.239
So impersonal.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.639
Yeah, it was really impersonal.
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:58.400
Um, so I ended up getting pregnant and having another baby, a little boy.
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:08.079
Um, again, I went back with midwifery just for the care because I didn't think it was going to happen again, but it did uh this time at 16 weeks.
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:12.159
I still had pregnancy symptoms, but I don't I don't know what it is.
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.679
I just knew in my heart that he was gone.
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:28.000
I had gone in and I'd held off on the Doppler again, and they said, you know, asked me at my 16-week appointment if I wanted to do a Doppler, and I said, sure.
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:34.800
And sure enough, there was no heartbeat, and I just started crying automatically.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:40.159
And they're like, Okay, well, we're gonna get you in for ultrasound today, you know, as soon as we can.
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.360
So they booked one, I was there, and again, this was all still during COVID.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:52.559
So, same thing, you know, my husband wasn't allowed to go in and all that stuff, and sure enough, there was there was no heartbeat.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:43:00.400
And this time the fear-mongering was, well, you're later, you can't take um the pill at home.
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:03.920
It's too dangerous, and you can't do a DNC.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:10.159
And if you do expect it management, like waiting out, you're more likely to hemorrhage because you're farther along.
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:15.280
Okay, so I chose to be induced at the hospital instead.
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:20.400
And they said, Okay, well, um, let us know what you decide, right?
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:21.599
So I let them know.
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:32.239
I remember being at the hospital and I got a call from midwifery, and they're like, Okay, like um, so where you yeah, I called them and told them what I was doing.
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.000
They said, Okay, um, keep us updated or whatever.
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:44.320
So I didn't know what that meant, but I remember being at the hospital, um, waiting for them to do the misoprostal.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.840
And your husband couldn't even come to the induction.
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:49.039
He was.
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:50.400
He was allowed to come for that.
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:51.280
Okay, good.
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:53.119
Was allowed to come for that, yeah.
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:59.440
Midwife Free called me and they said, Um, have you delivered your baby yet?
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:03.360
And I was like, No, like I'm I'm just at the hospital now.
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:05.840
And they said, Oh, okay.
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:07.119
And that was it.
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:08.800
And then they hung up.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:21.519
After this was all over with, I'd asked one of the midwives, because she was doing some follow-up blood work, and I said, Do you guys not go to the hospital for moms that are induced for loss?
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.519
And she's like, Oh no, we do.
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.480
I said, Then how come it didn't happen with me?
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:28.960
And she's like, Well, there was a miscommunication.
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.119
No one, no one could go at that time.
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.800
You know, we were really busy.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.400
Oh, okay.
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:35.679
Thanks.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:38.159
So, yeah.
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:52.880
So I ended up with an induction again with him, and he came, but I guess I blame the hospital on this again because I know the dose that I had at home was different than the dose in the hospital.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:56.239
Because I had had, I think it was five pills at home.
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.840
And then the hospital, I had way more than five.
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.960
They were in a big rush, they wanted to get them out.
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:04.800
Um, like, oh yeah.
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:10.159
And they checked me at one time, like, hey, great, you're dilating, you know, I'm having a little bit of bleeding from the dilation.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.320
He's coming, kind of thing, right?
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:14.960
But it wasn't fast enough for them.
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:20.880
So they came back in and they're like, we're just gonna give you like a couple more pills, you know, just to keep you going.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.079
Like, okay, like I didn't know anything at that time.
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:34.719
So they gave me a couple of pills, and within, I don't know, a very, very short time, I started hemorrhaging or was pouring blood.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:40.719
He came with it, and I really thought I was going to die.
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:43.760
My blood pressure started dropping very fast.
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:48.079
They had to hook up Ivy, get the fluids in.
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.440
My husband, I mean, he was pretty upset.
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:52.559
He thought I was gonna die.
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:54.880
He's like, I've never seen you so white.
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:59.440
Um, I was kind of like crashing, basically, very quickly.
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:03.199
And the nurse looked at me and she's like, We are not going to lose you.
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:04.719
You're not gonna die on my watch.
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.440
I'm like, okay, that's really not reassuring.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.679
Right, using those words, right?
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:11.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:22.639
So they hung some medication to help with the clotting, but the only thing that did that happened was like I was pouring out clots instead of actually stopping.
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:24.800
Yeah, it took some time.
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:26.880
I got some more fluids into me.
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:31.199
Uh, my blood pressure was back up at that time, things started to slow down.
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:33.519
So the baby was born.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:38.079
I really didn't get to hold him right away because of everything that was going on.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:44.880
The OB came in and she looked at me and she said, Okay, now we're gonna get you to sit up and deliver your placenta.
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:45.679
And I said, What?
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:47.119
I was like, I can't sit up.
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.199
Like I could barely form a sentence.
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:51.679
Like I was completely out of it.
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.119
And the nurse looked at me and she's like, You're going to sit up.
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:56.559
The OB wants you to sit up.
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:58.719
I was like, I don't care, basically.
00:46:58.880 --> 00:46:59.840
Like, I can't.
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:07.920
So they put the head of the bed up, and I had four nurses pick me up out of the bed and try and get me to stand at the side of the bed.
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:09.440
And I almost fell on the floor.
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.480
Like, like, what do you what do you expect?
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:16.000
And then then OB got really upset at me, and she's like, Okay, great.
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:20.000
Now we have to bring you down to a DNC and get your placenta out that way.
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:21.679
Like, as though it was me fault.
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.039
It's like, okay.
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:27.199
I I was just just everything with grief and how things were going.
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:29.280
I just it was like, I don't know.
00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:35.119
There's like no sensitivity, yeah, no sympathy, no, oh my goodness.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:36.000
Gosh.
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:36.800
Yeah.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:39.039
So I had the DNC.
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:41.039
I had to have a unit of blood.
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:44.800
But even though I had the unit of blood, it still wasn't enough.
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:50.639
It didn't get my blood up enough, but I didn't want any more, and they weren't even willing to give me any more, anyways.
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:52.320
So I went home.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:57.119
I had to work on getting my blood up naturally with some natural means.
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.519
It took about a week and I was just so angry at everything.
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:02.800
I couldn't even grieve.
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:08.079
I just remember being, yeah, angry at everyone just for what was going on.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.280
And yeah, a couple of days later, my bleeding picked up.
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.519
Um, I went back to the hospital and they didn't get it all.
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.000
So I had to have another DNC.
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:21.280
Oh my goodness.
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:24.159
Yeah, I was I was just a mess.
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:25.280
Yeah.
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:25.679
Yeah.
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:26.960
That was really rough.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.719
Melissa, I'm so sorry.
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:42.159
Like this is just I mean, the fact that you lost your babies in the first place is like tragic and traumatic and so sad all on its own.
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:54.639
But to add the lack of respect and the lack of sympathy and the lack of actual care, like I kept thinking about you would say, you know, I I ended up going back to midwifery for my care.
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:57.679
And all I wanted to say was, it's not care.
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:00.320
Like they're not caring for you.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:02.880
There's no care in what they're doing.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.760
I'm I'm just so sorry.
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.800
I'm so sorry that all of this has happened.
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:14.960
Yeah, I mean, looking back at it now, it's labeled prenatal care, but it's really not.
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:25.760
You're just kind of on this conveyor belt, more or less, whether you're pregnant or whether you're not pregnant, you know, they just they just can't, they can't help themselves.
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:33.440
They can't wait for you to just to be done a pregnancy, whether it's a loss or whether it's not a loss.
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:40.800
They're just always in a this big rush, yeah, you know, to have their own timeline, even even in death.
00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:46.400
Like it's just they have no respect for life, so they're not gonna have any respect for death.
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:55.760
You know, life is a miracle, and and even like there's so many unknowns in birth and how a baby comes in the world, you know.
00:49:55.840 --> 00:49:59.679
We know like some things, but I don't think we know everything.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:01.440
And I think that's okay.
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:03.679
You know, it's okay to have a mystery there.
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:11.440
And and there is like so many unknowns in death, you know, we just don't know everything in involved in that either.
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:33.280
And they want to do their best to control life, so they're gonna try and do their best to control death as though, as though if they don't control life and they don't control death, they see that somehow as a failure, I guess, in their their view, yeah, with uh that narcissistic attitude that is seen throughout that whole the whole system.
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:44.559
You know, I'm not saying necessarily they are themselves, but just the system itself is seen as that major savior god complex in life and in death, right?
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:50.079
So I had some early losses after that.
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:51.760
Those were sad.
00:50:51.920 --> 00:51:01.039
I mean, I felt like every loss after that just got worse, and just I don't know, just every the circumstances that kind of happened around those losses.
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:19.599
I had a couple of losses there at six weeks, and then my yeah, three losses between four and six weeks, and then I had my last second trimester loss at 14 weeks, and this was the one that I was sure I was going to try and do myself.
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:26.000
I got some herbs, but when the bleeding started, it was it was too much.
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:29.199
I just I was having too many flashbacks.
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:31.920
Uh I was still grieving my other ones.
00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:35.360
I had I was having panic attacks where I couldn't breathe.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:36.880
It was just too much.
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:41.360
So I decided to go in and do a DNC with with my last one.
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:49.599
And I do, I do regret it, but at the time, I think it's what I needed to kind of help move forward a little bit.
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:53.599
All three of my little guys are are buried.
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:55.760
So we have the there.
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:03.119
And then my 19-month-old that I have, he was my redemptive birth.
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:07.360
He was the one that I chose to do my own prenatal care.
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:24.159
It was rough though, I have to say, because after so many losses, you know, I between when I had lost my baby between pregnancy, three and four, like that was a wake-up call to show me, you know, the innocence of pregnancy was kind of lost.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:34.880
It wasn't just like, oh, like, you know, I'm pregnant and it's gonna, baby's gonna stay here for nine months, kind of thing, you know, that that innocence that nothing's gonna happen.
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:38.400
And then so when that happened, I knew like the innocence was lost.
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:42.079
So I always kind of had that, okay, what if in the back of my mind.
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:48.320
But after having so many consecutive losses, it was definitely more of a what if.
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:58.320
It was a lot of grieving still, you know, a lot of ugly crying, a lot of questioning my own ability.
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:06.320
It was kind of like a definitely like a tearing down and a building up of like who I was and becoming a different person.
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:24.239
In between my losses, I had taken a course with with a wise woman because I said in my heart, like, if I'm going to be done with the system, I don't feel like other women should have to go through what I went through at all.
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:25.920
There needs to be something different.
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:27.760
You can't change the system from within.
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:37.440
So I had worked one-on-one with a wise woman throughout all of this, and that's when I chose to be a traditional birth attendant.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.000
It's funny because I knew when I was growing up, um, midway free was something that I always wanted to do.
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:50.000
But like I had said at the beginning, when I saw the OB care, I was like, no, I don't want any part of that.
00:53:50.159 --> 00:54:04.239
But there was still part of me that I always loved birth, you know, loved being with women, loved hearing stories and seeing how birth has changed women and become the mothers they were meant to be.
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:10.480
So I had had that background behind me when I was going through my pregnancy.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:16.239
Um and of course, near the end, there was lots of fears.
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:26.559
I had felt him at one point near the end where he was, and he I felt a little, just this little nub, like it wasn't his head.
00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:29.519
I knew it was head down, but there was something else there.
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:37.679
So I knew in the back of my mind, like, okay, could be a shoulder, could be a hand, could be an elbow, something.
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:39.599
Something was, you know, was there.
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:41.760
He wasn't quite where he was supposed to be.
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:42.880
Supposed to be.
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:45.199
I say that in quotes, right?
00:54:46.320 --> 00:55:01.199
So two days before he was born, um my little girl came inside and I was giving her a haircut, and she passed out, and she was unresponsive.
00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:05.840
And we ended up calling 911, took her to the hospital.
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:11.599
You know, I was a wreck, being 42 weeks pregnant, ready to give birth anytime.
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:13.039
And this is going on.
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:17.360
And they gave her a shot of Adam, she came too.
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.840
Uh, they did some scans and tests.
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.719
We don't really know to this day what happened.
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:25.039
Um, but she was there overnight.
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:31.039
And the whole time when I was overnight with her in the hospital, I was having contractions.
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:38.239
And I remember praying, like, Lord, I am not going to have this baby here.
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:44.079
I will walk outside the hospital and birth just outside these doors have to.
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:46.639
I was just, oh man.
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:52.960
So yeah, it was on and on, on and off again contractions, those two days.
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.480
Um, and then that night, of course, there was no sleep, right?
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:57.760
Being in the hospital.
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:01.679
So we brought her home that following night.
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:05.440
Uh, my contractions started like hardcore.
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:06.960
Um they're really intense.
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:08.559
I thought, wow, this is great.
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:10.079
Like, I got everything set up.
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:11.840
My husband was helping me.
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:14.960
And then in the morning, everything pittered out.
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:18.320
It's like, hmm, something's off.
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:31.440
So I tried to do some different uh position changes, like lunges and uh on my ball and different spinning babies to try and get, you know, things started.
00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:35.119
And things kind of started off and on, but not as intense.
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:42.159
And then that night, uh yeah, that night they started really intense.
00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:47.360
And then my water broke around five, six-ish.
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:49.760
Um, and there was maconia.
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.840
And I sat with that, but I thought, you know, I can still feel him moving.
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.960
He's okay, which shows that he can poop.
00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:57.840
He can poop.
00:56:57.920 --> 00:56:58.400
That's great.
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.400
You don't have to worry about that when he comes out.
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:00.880
Right.
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:18.800
So uh yeah, so it took a long time because normally for me, when the time the baby's water breaks, like they're delivered, you know, within a half two hours normally.
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:21.599
Two hours went by, no baby.
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:22.800
And I was kind of getting nervous.
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.039
It's like, okay, like this was my time schedule.
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:28.000
Like, I know, I know how I labor, right?
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:45.519
And I was still kind of in that uh, I don't know, in that moment, I guess, of you know, the set time, like this baby has to come out in the set time, like that mindset of um, which I know now, like, you know, it's not necessarily true.
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:51.840
So I finally had to zone out and get kind of in into out of my head.
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:53.360
That's where I was.
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:59.679
And I just getting close because I was getting exhausted, and I was just feeling done with the whole thing.
00:57:59.920 --> 00:58:04.239
And at that time, I said to my husband, I was like, Okay, this is not working.
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:07.440
Like, it's now four o'clock in the afternoon.
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:11.360
I've been laboring all night, almost all day.
00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:14.719
Like, I let's just go to the hospital, let's just call it quits.
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:17.039
And he's like, No, we're not gonna do that.
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:18.159
We're not gonna do that.
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:20.079
And he started praying.
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:27.599
And as soon as he prayed, Hail Mary, my rest of my water broke and I dropped to my knees.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:28.880
And he came.
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:33.840
Placenta came within 20 minutes with no issue.
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:38.960
Yeah, it was just so beautiful and redemptive.
00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:45.679
You know, I say I I started this pregnancy on my knees and I ended this pregnancy on my knees.
00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:50.000
It was just such a such a humbling experience.
00:58:50.639 --> 00:59:07.679
And just to to finally have a birth without any regrets, without having to fight with anyone, without strangers poking at you and telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing, interrupting you, like it was amazing.
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.840
Like it was so wonderful.
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:11.599
I'm so happy for you.
00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:22.000
I'm sitting over here with Goose Benz and all excited and that you've got that you finally got that birth, that redemptive birth, that supernatural birth, it feels like.
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:23.440
That's incredible.
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:25.519
So, so so happy for you.
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:28.400
And you said now was that last one a boy or a girl?
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:29.519
That was a boy.
00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:29.920
Yeah.
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:30.800
A boy.
00:59:31.039 --> 00:59:33.360
And so he's 19 months old now, you said?
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:34.159
He is.
00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:35.920
Yeah, he's 19 months, yeah.
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:38.320
Oh that's sweet.
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:43.280
I was just curious, what are the spacings of um of the eight?
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:50.719
What how like what I get or maybe you can just tell us what their ages are now and that'll give us an idea of the spacings between them.
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:56.159
Yeah, so 13, 12, 11, 10.
00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:59.599
8, 6, 10, 5.
01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:10.079
Have they been just loving having the baby around and yes, it's so different.
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.760
I mean, loss definitely affected them.
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:26.719
You know, having children go through losing siblings, you know, as a whole dimension because it's not just, you know, your grief you have to be mindful of.
01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:31.199
It's also that lots of conversations and throughout it all.
01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:40.719
And yeah, they they have definitely uh, I don't know, a love for their little brother that I haven't seen with their other siblings.
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:46.880
You know, he's just special, spoiled by their older ones, right?
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:47.679
Right.
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:48.000
Yeah.
01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:49.119
Of course he is.
01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:53.440
Were any of them there for the birth, or was it just you and your husband?
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:56.880
They were at home, yeah, but they weren't in the in the bedroom.
01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:06.320
No, I had him in our bedroom, and my oldest wanted to come, but my husband just he locked the door to make sure I wasn't gonna be interrupted.
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:10.480
Like, no, we're gonna guard our space, you know, guard our hormones.
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:12.400
And I I appreciate that, you know.
01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:13.519
Yeah, I do.
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.760
Yeah, what a story, Melissa.
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:18.800
What a story.
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:24.000
I'm so just happy that you got to have that experience.
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:25.119
Thank you.
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:30.239
Through all of that, what do you feel like God taught you the most?
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:38.000
I would say through it all, humility, nothing can be controlled.
01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:40.559
The only thing we can control is ourselves.
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:47.440
You know, you can't you can't control birth, you can't control the outcome, you can't control death.
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:54.639
It just brings up an extra layer of trust and faith that was never there before.
01:01:54.960 --> 01:02:00.639
I think having uh a wild pregnancy adds a dimension to that.
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:16.079
We always wanted, you know, kids that are you know raised naturally and without that, but seeing that it starts it starts in the womb, you know, you are the mother, you are the parent, the authority of this child from the beginning.
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:27.920
And whether the baby is a stillbirth or whether the baby grows up, you know, and does great things like that, that's out of our control.
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:32.079
And it is, it's it's a humbling experience.
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:40.800
Even even in a wild pregnancy, you know, I had I had no idea whether things were gonna turn out okay or things were not gonna turn out okay.
01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:45.119
And I had to come to that, I had to be okay with that, you know.
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:50.400
I had to come to that realization that I have no guarantees in life.
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:54.719
I have no guarantees that this baby is going to come out alive.
01:02:54.880 --> 01:03:00.719
I have no guarantees that this baby is that I'm not gonna have to bury a child even later on in life.
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.880
Yeah, you know, there's no guarantees.
01:03:03.039 --> 01:03:09.199
And I think that just brought a deeper trust and and a sense of humility.
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:10.159
Yeah.
01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:12.880
Well, thank you.
01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:16.320
Thank you for for everything, for sharing everything.
01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.599
Is there anything else you wanted to share before we end?
01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:32.239
If you're looking for more support in your pregnancy, you know, I have a Facebook group of Christian women who have free birth and women who are looking to free birth.
01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:34.320
And what's the name of the group?
01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:37.280
It's called Empowered Christian Free Birth.
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:38.159
Beautiful.
01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:43.440
And I can link that in the show notes if anyone's interested in looking at that group.
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:58.400
Well, I think that's wonderful that you have created a space for community of women who are on, you know, a similar journey in terms of wanting to, you know, have a faith, a faith-led free birth.
01:03:58.559 --> 01:03:59.679
So that's beautiful.
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:05.280
And I'm glad that you're able to share your story with them, as I'm sure they're all able to share stories with each other.
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:07.440
So that's that's beautiful.
01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:08.639
Thank you.
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:13.280
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:21.679
You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram or email me at contact at Surrendered Birth Services.com.
01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:25.760
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01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:38.880
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01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:49.119
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01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:11.599
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01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:16.639
Just as a reminder, this show is not giving medical advice.
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:21.280
So please continue to see your personal care provider as needs arise.
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:24.079
We hope you have a great week.
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:31.920
And remember, learn all that you can, make the best plans, and then leave it in God's hands.