Wesley Pepper:
00:00:19
Hey, greetings everybody. This is Wesley Pepper here and you tuned, into my podcast Wesley Pepper's Art Lexica. Yeah. Yeah, man. Uh, let's just start off with last week's episode, a big up to Sabelo Soko WordUp TV SA for always coming through. Um, yeah man, we always have, uh, good conversations. Um, Very opinionated he's really, really fucking cool, man. Um, I've been saying that Sabz will be coming on as a regular feature over time. So, and we'll be touching, you know, always picking apart, like what's the current trends in the arts what's happening. What's not, what's not happening. And, um, yeah, moving forward, we'll stop. I mean, you know, on picking different shows and stuff like that, but, um, that's where we move forward from your, um, talking about moving forward. Um, you know, I've got to give a shout out to Baobulb.org Uh, that's Candice Nolan and um spudcaster for hosting me, um, check them out man, um, today's episode. Um, We touching base with, uh, somebody on we, we had before. Uh Philani Nyoni from Bulawayo in Zim. Um, you know, if you remember last year's episode of the quality was kind of, wasn't so great. It was a network problem. Um, but I think we got him on a much better line. Um, so we'll be unpacking pretty much, um, just catching up on what he's been up to, I know he wrote a very interesting, uh, satirical piece on awards or the culture of awards in Zimbabwe and I'm picking his brain a little bit about that, because we know he's a multi award winning writer. Um, And then, yeah, I mean, when I look at, um, these current projects, you know, what's been happening and then yeah, the whole COVID thing, man, you know, I think so. I have to ask every artist that, because they, I mean, like I said, I'm working on sort of a body of work towards in the year that I want to do something around of that. And, um, I really just want to know, because I think it's quite relevant. So I'll chat to you guys towards the end of the episode.
Spudcaster:
00:02:06
This podcast is produced and hosted by Spudcaster for baobulb.org.
Wesley Pepper:
00:02:12
Uh, so my brother, how you been, man? You know, how's, uh, since the last time we spoke, you know, I always, uh, how's everything, you know, how's the health, how's. I mean, you're not, you haven't gotten COVID have you tested positive since the last time.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:02:26
No I haven't tested positive,
Wesley Pepper:
00:02:38
there's always something else. Uh, so yeah, so there's no covid, uh, and, um, I guess like, Uh, how's the creativity man, it's been, you know, we, a few weeks into the, year uh, um, people have been busy artists, artists, all over writing, producing, everything cats are busy uh, and yourself.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:02:58
Yeah, just kind of hanging the, you know, I'm, I'm taking more public, uh, empty jobs. Uh, sort of putting the bread on the table, I'm trying to work on, you know, something, something big again. Um, cause I'm, I'm 40 thousand words in and I'm hoping by the end of it, I can finally put up that novel that everyone's waiting for.
Wesley Pepper:
00:03:25
I like the, uh, I liked the way you say, like what everyone is very focused, kinda like um, So, uh, just for the listeners, uh, we were chatting on WhatsApp some weeks whenever it doesn't really matter. Uh, so Philani sent me this, uh, article on, um, that he wrote or that he replied to on focus Mag. And it was, it was, it was, it was, it was funny, man. And I thought it was really relevant, uh, both obviously in Zim, but like I thought we've got a similar issue here in, uh, in SA. So you've got a very hysterical, uh, look at, uh, awards. Right. Right. And, uh, from, from where I'm standing, uh, personally, I fucking hate awards, I think it, uh, it does more harm than good. Uh, and you know, I don't, I don't want to be that type of podcast, but I think there's this bit. of corruption there and a bit of nepotism and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to end it there. I don't want to entertain it. I don't want to be. that podcast, but, um, I think all these little bit of elements are there. So, uh, I've got an opinion, but like, I'll give you, uh, so tell us a little bit about what for my listeners, cause you can explain it better. Um, I always find it a bit weird to explain. to a writer what she said to them about. Uh, it's just, I don't think I've got the skills to do that. Uh, so, so, so, so tell us a little bit about that and about your opinion about it and then we'll and then we'll, we'll just take it from there.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:04:56
Yeah. Um, so this chick, um Qeqeshiwe, uh, put up a post on, on Facebook. Uh, she was selling her awards, you know, like, yo, can I get a house? Can I get a car with this shit and she had no takers. So then she posted another post and she says, Hey, listen this shit is useless I kind of been.. I can't auction it or anything So I wrote back and I said, yeah, no, that's what I feel. I feel your pain. I packed all my awards neatly Uh I won alot of shit in my career. I just wrap it up. Uh, in old, t-shirts put in old boxes and throw it in the back of my wardrobe you know, it's distracting.
Wesley Pepper:
00:05:36
Hold up, hold up just for my listeners, because personally my brother, I, um, I, I hear your opinion, but like I say, I said with the fact that like, I kind of inspired, like you said, like what most of almost every single one of your books has won and award, am I correct?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:05:53
Every single book that I have written, yes.
Wesley Pepper:
00:05:54
Wow Philani I you're like you like the fucking tiger woods of awards?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:06:02
Serena Williams.
Wesley Pepper:
00:06:09
Yeah, I like that. Okay. So firstly, first, first, before I, before I get to the. Other part of it. Like, I dunno, how do you get it right. I don't know. Do you, do you, because it could, if you want so many times, I mean, like, till you expect to win something every time you put something out, am I, I don't know. Where do I, where do I stand with that? Or rather where do you stand with that?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:06:33
Well, it sounds like the, you know, a personal thing, like, like you wake up one day, like, Oh, okay. Like three in a row, let's see what happens. Um, basically I can't put out crap, yeah. Um, a can't put out crap, but like, you know, you, you get all these awards. And, uh, I remember one time, like in 2016, when I got my second national, uh, we're given like 300 bucks, which is about 3000 Rands, right. And the SAMA's were happening around that same period. And you the guys over there were getting like 100 thousand. But the biggest thing in Zim again, You know, so if, if, if it gets frustrating that the frustration comes from, uh, in that, you know, these things don't really add much value to our lives. Um, maybe I'm speaking from a point of privilege, but that's, that's, that's, that's the general consensus among artists that, you know, get a bit of publicity on that. Then you, you spend more, you know, going to these things than just. Uh, just
Wesley Pepper:
00:07:57
like a few points on that now, uh, I know most of your writing uh, was very critical on the government, right? So, and these are the same guys giving you an award for being critical on them. I don't get it,
Philani A Nyoni:
00:08:09
It's like I told you I can't put out shit. but my first one was 2013. Um, I sort of took that direction in my first book. It wasn't political in any way that level, but it was, I sort of put that book out because I knew that some of my, my writings were volatile and that's the stuff that tends to get traction to make my name in the industry. Yeah, you, I don't want to make enemies at the beginning. And so, yeah, I guess, I guess that's, that's one good thing about awards, um, that it's it's. If, if my first book wasn't political. So when I turned political then there is, um a reason for that, you know. Someone trying to look for attention., the only one of my books, only one of my books was critical of the government. Um, articles, here and there that are critical, but generally I just love doing what I do, man. I love my, art I love breaking boundaries and things like that
Wesley Pepper:
00:09:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely, that's actually, that's actually pretty cool. That's actually pretty cool. Uh, back to the thing about like, uh, the value of, um, of awards. Um, yeah. That's um, I get that, I get that thing about the SAMA's um, Uh, um, yeah, in, in SA we've we actually, you know, this there's so many, uh, awards. They used to be the, in the, uh, the one, that brings to my mind that I actually want to talk about, uh, actually when it got cancelled or got pulled out some years ago, it was in the early two thousands. I was entering the art and the arts in Joburg. Uh, it was called the Brett Kebble Art Award And, um, at that time it was seen as, uh, I think it ran for two, maybe three years, uh, it was seen as like the, I guess, award for emerging, I guess, established artist, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, if you know SA politics, like Brett Kebble, use that thing as either a money laundering thing. It was, but it was very political, you know, and he got assassinated a few years. Later, and it was a whole thing and then like the artwork. So I always found that like really, uh, as a pretty crazy example of like the value of awards, you know, I don't really think they mean shit. You know, this is a few people giving a few, I don't know, just pinpointing pointing this one, this one. And this one. Personally, I don't think an artist's merit is, but I get your thing of but on the other end, you know, I mean, um, If you get like what you get jussus Uh, I think there's definitely some, I think you should, win an award for winning awards, you know, and then like you, the only give it out, like once every 10 years or something, or 12 years or something ridiculous, you know, and I don't know, but anyway, my brother, man, um, yeah, man, I get that, man. I still want to, um, Uh, you know, since the, since the last time, or I wanna move on to the next topic, actually, since the last time we spoke, um, This is coming from a covid, uh, kind of like angle. Um, the arts has been, uh, like everything is turned. In South Africa, um, when was it? On the 5th of March, uh, it marked, a year, since the first case got, uh, recorded in South Africa. And I think the first death. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it was, uh, I think the first death was a few days later, and then a hard lockdown was the middle of the month or something. Um, and, uh, so it's a year. It's the, uh, it's the, uh, uh, So I, I sorta wanted to use that like as a measuring stick, um, just to, just to rate or to look at like how drastically things have changed, because then, uh, because down here, I mean, um, uh, we now in that level one and, uh, you know, No sport is happening, but like, I know nightclubs are not open. And, and, and I mean, you actually, you can have art. I mean, this guy's having art shows, but music, theaters, and all of that stuff, um, that's still not happening. So, um, on this platform, Uh, last year and talking to a bunch of people about how they've been adapting to the, to the, to the, this new normal now and a year on man. So in your opinion, given like all that, I've just said, given your opinion, uh, where do you stand? Are you, um, Or rather, how have you adapted? Uh, and this there's a few other things that I want to pick your brain, um, sort of around that, but like, let's just start with like, how have you adapted a year on, into, uh, into COVID given that like what you've been doing?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:13:06
I'm fucking weirder now. I like, I look at myself like, yo, I don't even recognize myself anymore. Uh, you know, most of the time it's just, I'm there determination either working on my personal shit or, you know, you'll get the upgrade. So, um, but I think the market for. The thing has opened up for editing and stuff like that and has opened up a bit. I think more people are writing now. okay, most people are writing crap. Kind of to just stay employed. I was just getting weird and weirder had a lot of shit I had to do, you know, um, I'm like, unlike politicians I sort my shit out I wanted to do. And it would just stopping the traps right there. So, um, I'm even contemplating postponing my, my launch, which we scheduled for 30 June or the Testament of black Jesus but we'll see, we'll see how that goes. And that's, I think the hardest part is not being sure about anything, not being sure of when. Uh, the next curfew will be with, you know, frisked by the police for trying to get into town and you go to the bank or something. Um, that's the hardest part. It's fucked up. I enjoy my, my, my downtime. Working on my shit, you know, fucking up people's lives, but there is so much you can do So much to write in the day.
Wesley Pepper:
00:14:49
Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you, my brother, uh, interesting. Uh, like the, um, just like you said with cops frisking, you and just like, just this like sort of, uh, pseudo police state, uh, like over here, um, um, um, It seems like I, from what I can tell it, it seems pretty relaxed on the street. Um, I haven't really seen like a heavy, uh, yeah, it's just fucked up, man. The, the, the, the, the, because they've, um, they've dished out the, uh, or other, this vaccine roll-outs have started, but there's so much confusion. Uh, poor communication. Um, around the, around the hows, and the whens of that, that, that, that is actually adding to, I guess I actually want to actually want to know want to get to the vaccine, but that's, um, but that's a bit later, but, um, just to, um, just to, um, just to go a step back about like how you've even adapting. Um, yeah, man, I hear that, like, there was also, there was also an interesting point that, um, that a few writers and artists, I know that picked up that I mean that I notice a few artists say, was that? Like, even though the, uh, Uh, the I'm talking largely 2020 though. Lockdown was bad, but like, it's this type of adversity. We sort of used to it and we've been working with it for the longest time. And it was just a matter of adapting. So it's sort of like with the cockroaches, you know, it's like survived everything and we're still here, you know? Um, so. Interesting men also, I've also been noticing a lot of artists have been very productive last year and a lot of content is coming out this year. So that's something interesting to be tracking as well. Um, so you, uh, you were saying that your book uh I sort of want to move on to like more current projects, man. Um, because, um, um, My brother. I'm very, I'm very interested in like sort of tracking this. Um, I sort of want to get into that, I guess, as the podcast was, get more technical into tracking artists processes in creating. So you were saying, uh, what would the project in, um, that you were thinking of launching in June? Was it, uh, so tell us a little bit about that then what's it about? And more so how did it of come about, you know, where is it? Where does it come from?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:16:58
Inspiration for my work is usually art, because I work, I write everyday and sometimes like, you know, flip flop on this and that, um, so we can start off with a dare okay I dare you to write a one room play. Um, so The Testament of Black Jesus Part of it came up like that. I wanted to, start something people thinking about, you know, the identity of Jesus and what does it mean to be Christian? As long as I know it's going to be a fucking right and don't take the circumstances of his birth and adopt them here in Africa. You know, input things like make Black Jesus a woman. Ah, fuck. Yeah.
Wesley Pepper:
00:17:49
Sorry. Okay. Moving on.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:17:54
It was a woman and she's born in a unnamed, African Southern African country during the civil war. Sure. She's, she's bought a lot of poverty. There's a mother was raped by one of the soldiers in the genocide That it's a beautiful piece of writing. Then it's like, like prose, poetry, and drama all strewn into one. One thing, it's something like the closest thing that I've alluded to is Milton's paradise lost Gibran the prophet. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that beautiful language and some thought provoking shit, you know, but it comes back to the basics if you're even using, as far as I understand them, uh, you know, Judaism, uh, Judaism, Buddhism Christianity They all have one thing in common, the golden rule: Don't be a fucking asshole..
Wesley Pepper:
00:18:53
You know, like you just, you just said something that seriously triggered something. I, and like, it's like, I've seen this now in you, the fourth person, but like, I just want to ask you two more questions about that, just to, just to see if my, yeah. If my, if what I'm picking up is, is like, uh, you conceptualize this body of work last year.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:19:14
Um, I finished the draft last June, my working draft I, finished it in June Yeah. Uh, but I, I have been working on it for a while. Uh, yeah, you could have my project was about three years old by the time there indistinct.
Wesley Pepper:
00:19:30
I get that. I get that, uh, um, I'm asking last year specifically, uh, because I you're the fourth person. I actually the third, the third this week. Um, I've just while I've been talking to who's, uh, I guess they, um, where their, it's not just their thought patterns their perspective and everything is moving down a spiritual path and some of them are creating, like in your case, a conceptualize, a body of work around. I think that subject matter sounds very interesting, uh, sound super interesting. And I was just thinking of this, this visuals in my head as well, but like, I kind of want to get to that. Um, but like, I. I think that, I think that's pretty interesting. I think that's really interesting. It seemed like somehow, um, and I'll be tracking it on, on, on, on this podcasts is that like this, this real mind shift, um, and artists are always the first group of people to pick it up and to make it real and to put it out there. Do you have any, do you have any thoughts on that?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:20:30
People are moving you the world that we knew been destroyed and everyone's looking for answers again, And, you know, more time on our own, uh, next distractions or these so much alcohol, you can drink on your own. Uh, you know, and you know, people starting to think about life and the meaning of it, you know? So, um, I think I'm guilty of being one of those people that started thinking more about spirituality and all that in the lockdown. Yeah, that period on your own, really, you know, uh, I guess gets the mind cranking And one way I deal with my thoughts is by writing it's cathartic for me So yeah, I think these, these, there's definitely a shift towards thinking about the bigger picture. Like what does all mean? You know, I've been planning for five years and shit is just fucked up. So we need something to believe in again.
Wesley Pepper:
00:21:24
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, um, I find that, I find that quite, I find that quite crazy. Um, it's rather, I find quite interesting. So, uh, just, uh, just, um, just back to you, um, back to your book, uh, just like, uh, I guess commercial side of everything. Um, are you still getting self published or are you working with a publisher?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:21:45
I would really love to take the pressure off myself and work with another publisher, but I mean, in Zimbabwe like I said in, the other podcast there is no publishing industry in Zimbabwe, so I've been trying to pitch my project that I'm working on. And one of the publishers who was Libra press, which is like, you know, one of the biggest publishers, like in the country, you know, like one of the top two. Because I'm a book has left this operational base in Wales. Uh, unfortunately Libra Press were no longer publishing your fiction. So, and they, they, they advise me to go self-publishing and all that, which I'm good at I mean, I, I learnt from you
Wesley Pepper:
00:22:32
thanks bro, but all that's a, that's a serious compliment. That's a serious compliment.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:22:37
Oh yeah. I did. I did. I, did you look at, look, look at, I look at my works, man. I still use, I mean I'm terrible at drawing but I still use water marks Yeah, and shit like that. So I wouldn't, I want to give the burden to someone else. Uh, I've spoken to my publisher, uh, my previous publisher about, you know, to do the translation and all that. But locally, it looks like I might have to carry the weight of it, yeah.
Wesley Pepper:
00:23:05
I was going to. I was gonna say like, um, I mean, surely there must be publishers in South Africa. Uh, in the rest of the continent, I mean, like, um, haven't you been, uh, I mean, haven't you been approached or ever thought of certain of that? I think, um, Ja man even if, even somebody like uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, um Geko, publishing, I mean, I, I mean, I mean, he does, I mean, I mean, I mean, Phehello and actually we, we started more or less the same time, so he's, he's been around haven't you ever too. I mean, because, um, so I, you know, and I don't want to, I don't want to just assume. I know, I understand the frustrations and everything because I firstly, from, from, from working point of view I know exactly what you say, if you want to take some of that stress and I think you deserve it after such a long line of, of books, you know, you need to reach a point like that shit is not going to be, I just want to consider, uh, you know, focus on writing. So I think as, as, as I like that, you have to deserve that. So I. I just, I just find it difficult to understand, like, I mean, South Africa, even Nigeria, Nigeria, Kenya. I know there's some really cool people over there too. Like, I don't know. Isn't the isn't isn't the continent responding to you work or from a, from a publishing point of view?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:24:18
Well, it is, uh, it is, um, I sent in a couple of short stories, uh, And we'll see how that goes. Yeah. But it's like, I can definitively say that there are no publishers in Zim there's some kids that. You know, the younger, but these, these, but when I'm, when I looked at the contract and the model of what they were wanting to do with my work. Yeah it felt like it wasn't right there. It's my baby. You know my writings and my baby.
Wesley Pepper:
00:25:03
I get you. I get you. I get you. Um, and I, uh, I'm even thinking now with what's happening in the US um, um, especially around there's this whole. Um revival around, identity, blackness.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:25:20
With all the money in the black card right now right now Yeah. Biden Biden don't fuck shit up for us now
Wesley Pepper:
00:25:33
Yeah, I was reading. Um, yeah. Anyway, I was, I was, I was, I was reading up this thing on a. There's this interesting diaspora in Canada. Uh, so says it, the large part of everybody's, I guess that's like downtown joburg to like Like, so I think, um, honestly, my brother, I think you deserve a batch bigger and I get you with that whole. I think those people should have a engine in place. Um, and it should do your work justice, uh, on that point actually, uh, last year, um, just from a South African. Uh, publishing, uh, sort of perspective. Um, last year with the SA book week, uh, we had a, uh, the zoom conference meeting thing and we were about 30, just under, under 30. Uh, so it was a bit of everybody. publishers. Everybody, but mostly but mostly publishers. And, um, I found it, I found it very, uh, or rather, I saw, I saw two things that, um, First of all the, uh, the publisher from locally, uh, that was, uh, still using or other that founded the thing or the business model, like in the nineties, uh, or some of the, even further back the eighties, uh, and was still being around and who hasn't adapted like their businesses, you know, is on the way out. Um, and, um, the whole, um, the other thing is that the whole, um, Uh, you know, policing of movement and all of this and other, you know, uh, packages getting from one place to another, I guess there's a bit of a, I guess Africans are still learning to adapt around that. And, um, so the publishing world in general, I mean, like the only opened up libraries, bro, like the other day, like the other day, this is like, so it's basically, we closed for like a fucking year. Uh, given, um, given take, I mean, so yes man, like I, I, you know, you know, there's, there's so many things that like actually discussed you know the government handles our industry. But, um, so these guys have been, have been, um, I've kind of drifting off there. So these guys at you know, have been dealing with, with, um, with, um, with some shit. So on the other hand as much as I understand. What you're saying. And I, and I said, um, you know, in terms of publishing. And I also think like now more than ever, it's like a time to fuck man just own everything. And, uh, because these companies and stuff, um, nobody, nobody. Yeah, man. Like, I just think we should, instead of waiting or asking somebody else to change, we should change it ourselves. But on the other hand, I also know the pain that goes involved with making a body of work. So I, I hear you on that. Yeah.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:28:16
I'm working on. My, my, my last book, like Philtrum, which I released like a week, like two weeks Robert Mugabe resigned. uh, it's fucking performing. I mean, it's fucking performing man. It's been great It's doing well in London. It's doing well on Amazon winning international awards. Yeah. Also, um, I'm, I'm looking at my other words and I'm saying like, I know, I feel like I don't have the capacity to see the business the way it should like I feel like there's more potential in the old works than, and, you know, putting out something new again So let's, let's get like my conundrum, like how to manage the brand, the business. And still keep being an artist, which is what keeps me alive, you know, like emotionally and then, you know, sanity wise. A question.
Wesley Pepper:
00:29:25
Yeah. Uh, sort of like to brainstorm with you sort of, kind of, uh, have you, um, if philtrum is doing that well and I've yeah. I mean, I've, I've seen your posts and all of that and super congratulations for that. My brother, first of all, um, Don't you think like, uh, or that you can create like a brand just around the book. So this includes like the art cover, you know, different images in the book and I'm talking like branding as like hardcore commercial shit, like printing of t-shirts stickers, that type of thing. And, um, sort of run with that.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:29:59
We have bags of that shit I hooked up with a local designer. She does amazing bags and shoes.
Wesley Pepper:
00:30:07
What type of, what type of beds? Like laptop bags.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:30:10
Yeah, because she does all kinds of bags. So I bought this thing or this nice thing item made, you know, with the face and the blurb. Yeah, fucking do well man, so that's local stuff, but now you see, all that shit needs investment So, uh, you know, so yeah, it's. That's the thing, like I don't want to start a new project But maybe the latest one is going to be the one that will make a million dollars.
Wesley Pepper:
00:30:50
That's crazy. That's crazy brother, because, uh, I think what you need is like, uh, A big team was thinking, but like a big, a large team. Yeah. You need a, you need guys to work on the branding guys to do distribution. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I think I probably some IT guys to do. E-commerce and uh, yeah, you definitely, you definitely, you definitely need that.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:31:21
So stuff like that, there's a lot of potential in the brand that needs exploring. Um, I'm a bit of ambivalent about, you know adding more tasks,
Wesley Pepper:
00:31:36
actually let me, um, let me, um, let me ask you about that how thin. And I mean, like Philani you, how old are you now? Like in your late twenties, early thirties, right?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:31:47
Right.
Wesley Pepper:
00:31:47
So, I mean, like if you spread, because, because I mean, you've been doing this gig for 10 years now. So the amount of the, the amount of work, uh, or, and I'm speaking from experience here, uh, Being, um, being spread like that, that thing as, uh, has, has a clock as well. You know, you might think you can do it forever, but you fucking can't. Like it it's just physically impossible. So I guess I'll ask you, when is your body gonna clock out, but like, do you feel like, uh, you know, a point when you say I, you know, enough, I can't do this shit anymore.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:32:27
Yeah. You just have to keep going. Um, Just in front of me to keep going. And then, you know what, those late hours I would sometimes have that I see like three computers, like what's the line over there. And I know each one of them have something that I have to do it because I'm listening to some Nina simone and some shit. Oh, I know that. Yeah, but you have to keep going then. And uh, I tried to it's about, I've been filling up some, you know, some, some young cats, their head is not in that space, which is like, we've even got one of the highest rates of employment in the world. We've got people with degrees and marketing and publishing. And you guys unemployment in the world. You're like, Hey, lets work something out Maybe my ideas are to radical.
Wesley Pepper:
00:33:25
You know, as you, as you, as you're saying this, I wanna, you know, I feel, I feel, I wish I could help it at some point because I, what I'm trying to, where I'm, where I see the value, uh, and this cuts across sort of all genres now is for, is for artists to kind of do what I'm, what I'm doing here with the podcast is creating, um, his, uh, own channel. Um, and, and, and, and, and, and just generating content regularly on that, um, and sort of have a team extraction. My brother, you know, um, I don't wanna, I don't wanna talk, I don't wanna say things that I can't own up to. So, um, this point actually got my brain wracking. So I think just for the sake of the specific episode in this specific podcast, I'll just put it through, uh, Pause button on that, but like, I really want to talk to you further on that, like on a personal level, uh, a little time later because you know, I just, I honestly, I just feel it's fucking unfair and it's this wrong, you know? Um, actually, um, Actually I saw, um, I saw something on your, uh, Facebook page. Uh, there were some artists, uh, in Zim that died because I saw some other, somebody, somebody else? Yes. um Rashid Yogi?, something like that. Um, I saw, um, I saw or rather, I mean, like I only became aware of him, like at, fortunately now that he's passed on And I saw some of his work. It was really interesting. He seemed like a really colorful character. Did you know him personally?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:34:49
Yeah, Rashid and I did bump into each other at the gallery all the time he's a fucking enigma, beautiful guy, you know, beautiful soul. The amazing visual artist is obstruct work and stuff, and that's It's sad because he died of indistinct I dont know if you know him Rashid used to. Well, jokes, jokes in the industry Like, you know, he's cool and stuff. So all those guys will be there. Every show, you know, he's there and he gets on his bicycle and cycles away at the end of the day So like I'm saying like a lockdown has made me weird and stuff. I can't help thinking that maybe, maybe Rashid died of loneliness.
Wesley Pepper:
00:35:43
Fuck man. Yeah, look. Yeah. Uh, hoof that's um, actually I don't want to go down that road in closing, man. Uh, and I'm asking everybody this, are you going to get vaccinated? If no, why? Or, you know, Yeah. Give me a reason for you saying yes or no. Are you gonna get vaccinated? And, um, um, actually I haven't read of anything. Um, has Zim got some form of rollout, a strategy or, you know, all those things.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:36:11
Yeah. Well, Zim is Africa, you know, like central africa who gets shoved out with machetes and AKA's Africa, um, So they only got like 200 000 doses from China and the, you have to get like two doses of that stuff, which is like, basically, you know, they, they have a 100 thousand. Yes. I don't know, man. I've got a good immune system. I'm not afraid of dying. Uh, you know, like I've been playing, um, what's it called? Uh, chicken all the time. So I'm not, I'm not gonna I'm neither. Yes, nor, no. Um, But like, I'd probably get a vaccine if like I needed to move out of the country and shit.
Wesley Pepper:
00:37:12
Well, I think, I think that's gonna be mandatory. Um, I think it really, I think it already is, um, um, um, um, even around even onset, Oh, well I'm well, all over. And I also know that there's still certain and, uh, uh, uh, you know, you're banned to go to certain countries. And like this whole covid shit is not going away bro. Uh, uh, Okay. I think, I think that, I think you did pretty well, uh, Philani, like my brother, this, I think that's it from me man. And, um, thanks for coming through again, you know? Uh, I, yeah, and I guess like, um, strength moving forward, man. Like I, um, I want to help out some of them and, um, I just like, like, I'm like, I'm sitting here. I don't know how yet. But like, um, I also, I also find that, um, This whole, uh, I guess it's like, I, I don't want to sound like some happy go clappy bullshit but like the, um, the fact that there's, I just find that this whole thing, this whole 4g of a movement on my, um, migration, um, there's seriously opportunities there for artists to own their own shit. But anyway, that's topic for another day, man. Um, what are you up to sort of like finally sort of in closing What are you up to for the rest of the day?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:38:39
Uh, well, I mean, my electricity just went, hasn't been there all day, so, uh, I've just exhausted my batteries. I was actually, yeah, I'm on 25% now. Thank God. Um, as opposed to my laptop battery, no it's alright pleasure talking to you and I acutally have an idea on how we can work together.
Wesley Pepper:
00:39:03
Yeah, man. Let's let's do that private chat a little bit later. Like I don't want to take more of your battery time making a we'll chat through social media, man. And, um, I'll touch base with you with regards to when this episode goes live. Um, and thanks for coming through, bro.
Spudcaster:
00:39:20
baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available. And all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts, podcasts, your life with baobulb.org.
Wesley Pepper:
00:39:37
Um, yeah, man, that was Philani. That was really cool. You know, that was really cool. Uh, it always sucks to hear these stories as an artist, man. Like I should really just like, you know, fucking hurts and, and, and I hate hearing shit like that. You know, I guess, because I probably walked in a similar path perhaps a few years ago, you know? Um, yeah, I mean, go with us. We brought out, um, artists are either artists are dying man Um, I didn't know that. I didn't know, actually personally, but like I said, I. I've heard of him just not too long ago. And, um, I've heard, you know, about him through other other artists and I hate stories like that, but anyway, man, you know, moving forward from, uh, moving forward, you know, we got to, uh, to Candice Nolan from Spudcaster and Baobulb. Um, for hosting me and they did my, um, producing, I think that all fantastic job putting this whole show together, big up to them for that. Um, and, um, moving forward, like next week's episode, um, We do having a more like a, um, I'm still as a, sort of a toss up between, um, I have this, uh, I found this, um, Artists called KT That's that's really, really interesting. Um, um, he does this really interesting work on canvas and he paints these sneakers. I thought he does a really, really cool work. But, um, I S um, so if he's not featured next weekend, he'll be featured in two weeks time because I'm also, I'm setting up a show too with Bitcoin. Um, yeah. Another follow up on that, um, thing with Bitcoin and, um, how the arts can use it. I think it's a conversation that you should start having. I think it's very important for the arts. Um, I think we should start adding these conversations and we'll be adding that. Um, I think that will be the next episode, as I said this just a bit of a scheduling thing and, um, yeah, so, but I'll make that announcement on my Twitter account. So you want me to catch up on all the streaming platforms too, and, um, I'll chat to you you next week.
00:00:19
Hey, greetings everybody. This is Wesley Pepper here and you tuned, into my podcast Wesley Pepper's Art Lexica. Yeah. Yeah, man. Uh, let's just start off with last week's episode, a big up to Sabelo Soko WordUp TV SA for always coming through. Um, yeah man, we always have, uh, good conversations. Um, Very opinionated he's really, really fucking cool, man. Um, I've been saying that Sabz will be coming on as a regular feature over time. So, and we'll be touching, you know, always picking apart, like what's the current trends in the arts what's happening. What's not, what's not happening. And, um, yeah, moving forward, we'll stop. I mean, you know, on picking different shows and stuff like that, but, um, that's where we move forward from your, um, talking about moving forward. Um, you know, I've got to give a shout out to Baobulb.org Uh, that's Candice Nolan and um spudcaster for hosting me, um, check them out man, um, today's episode. Um, We touching base with, uh, somebody on we, we had before. Uh Philani Nyoni from Bulawayo in Zim. Um, you know, if you remember last year's episode of the quality was kind of, wasn't so great. It was a network problem. Um, but I think we got him on a much better line. Um, so we'll be unpacking pretty much, um, just catching up on what he's been up to, I know he wrote a very interesting, uh, satirical piece on awards or the culture of awards in Zimbabwe and I'm picking his brain a little bit about that, because we know he's a multi award winning writer. Um, And then, yeah, I mean, when I look at, um, these current projects, you know, what's been happening and then yeah, the whole COVID thing, man, you know, I think so. I have to ask every artist that, because they, I mean, like I said, I'm working on sort of a body of work towards in the year that I want to do something around of that. And, um, I really just want to know, because I think it's quite relevant. So I'll chat to you guys towards the end of the episode.
Spudcaster:
00:02:06
This podcast is produced and hosted by Spudcaster for baobulb.org.
Wesley Pepper:
00:02:12
Uh, so my brother, how you been, man? You know, how's, uh, since the last time we spoke, you know, I always, uh, how's everything, you know, how's the health, how's. I mean, you're not, you haven't gotten COVID have you tested positive since the last time.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:02:26
No I haven't tested positive,
Wesley Pepper:
00:02:38
there's always something else. Uh, so yeah, so there's no covid, uh, and, um, I guess like, Uh, how's the creativity man, it's been, you know, we, a few weeks into the, year uh, um, people have been busy artists, artists, all over writing, producing, everything cats are busy uh, and yourself.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:02:58
Yeah, just kind of hanging the, you know, I'm, I'm taking more public, uh, empty jobs. Uh, sort of putting the bread on the table, I'm trying to work on, you know, something, something big again. Um, cause I'm, I'm 40 thousand words in and I'm hoping by the end of it, I can finally put up that novel that everyone's waiting for.
Wesley Pepper:
00:03:25
I like the, uh, I liked the way you say, like what everyone is very focused, kinda like um, So, uh, just for the listeners, uh, we were chatting on WhatsApp some weeks whenever it doesn't really matter. Uh, so Philani sent me this, uh, article on, um, that he wrote or that he replied to on focus Mag. And it was, it was, it was, it was, it was funny, man. And I thought it was really relevant, uh, both obviously in Zim, but like I thought we've got a similar issue here in, uh, in SA. So you've got a very hysterical, uh, look at, uh, awards. Right. Right. And, uh, from, from where I'm standing, uh, personally, I fucking hate awards, I think it, uh, it does more harm than good. Uh, and you know, I don't, I don't want to be that type of podcast, but I think there's this bit. of corruption there and a bit of nepotism and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to end it there. I don't want to entertain it. I don't want to be. that podcast, but, um, I think all these little bit of elements are there. So, uh, I've got an opinion, but like, I'll give you, uh, so tell us a little bit about what for my listeners, cause you can explain it better. Um, I always find it a bit weird to explain. to a writer what she said to them about. Uh, it's just, I don't think I've got the skills to do that. Uh, so, so, so, so tell us a little bit about that and about your opinion about it and then we'll and then we'll, we'll just take it from there.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:04:56
Yeah. Um, so this chick, um Qeqeshiwe, uh, put up a post on, on Facebook. Uh, she was selling her awards, you know, like, yo, can I get a house? Can I get a car with this shit and she had no takers. So then she posted another post and she says, Hey, listen this shit is useless I kind of been.. I can't auction it or anything So I wrote back and I said, yeah, no, that's what I feel. I feel your pain. I packed all my awards neatly Uh I won alot of shit in my career. I just wrap it up. Uh, in old, t-shirts put in old boxes and throw it in the back of my wardrobe you know, it's distracting.
Wesley Pepper:
00:05:36
Hold up, hold up just for my listeners, because personally my brother, I, um, I, I hear your opinion, but like I say, I said with the fact that like, I kind of inspired, like you said, like what most of almost every single one of your books has won and award, am I correct?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:05:53
Every single book that I have written, yes.
Wesley Pepper:
00:05:54
Wow Philani I you're like you like the fucking tiger woods of awards?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:06:02
Serena Williams.
Wesley Pepper:
00:06:09
Yeah, I like that. Okay. So firstly, first, first, before I, before I get to the. Other part of it. Like, I dunno, how do you get it right. I don't know. Do you, do you, because it could, if you want so many times, I mean, like, till you expect to win something every time you put something out, am I, I don't know. Where do I, where do I stand with that? Or rather where do you stand with that?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:06:33
Well, it sounds like the, you know, a personal thing, like, like you wake up one day, like, Oh, okay. Like three in a row, let's see what happens. Um, basically I can't put out crap, yeah. Um, a can't put out crap, but like, you know, you, you get all these awards. And, uh, I remember one time, like in 2016, when I got my second national, uh, we're given like 300 bucks, which is about 3000 Rands, right. And the SAMA's were happening around that same period. And you the guys over there were getting like 100 thousand. But the biggest thing in Zim again, You know, so if, if, if it gets frustrating that the frustration comes from, uh, in that, you know, these things don't really add much value to our lives. Um, maybe I'm speaking from a point of privilege, but that's, that's, that's, that's the general consensus among artists that, you know, get a bit of publicity on that. Then you, you spend more, you know, going to these things than just. Uh, just
Wesley Pepper:
00:07:57
like a few points on that now, uh, I know most of your writing uh, was very critical on the government, right? So, and these are the same guys giving you an award for being critical on them. I don't get it,
Philani A Nyoni:
00:08:09
It's like I told you I can't put out shit. but my first one was 2013. Um, I sort of took that direction in my first book. It wasn't political in any way that level, but it was, I sort of put that book out because I knew that some of my, my writings were volatile and that's the stuff that tends to get traction to make my name in the industry. Yeah, you, I don't want to make enemies at the beginning. And so, yeah, I guess, I guess that's, that's one good thing about awards, um, that it's it's. If, if my first book wasn't political. So when I turned political then there is, um a reason for that, you know. Someone trying to look for attention., the only one of my books, only one of my books was critical of the government. Um, articles, here and there that are critical, but generally I just love doing what I do, man. I love my, art I love breaking boundaries and things like that
Wesley Pepper:
00:09:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely, that's actually, that's actually pretty cool. That's actually pretty cool. Uh, back to the thing about like, uh, the value of, um, of awards. Um, yeah. That's um, I get that, I get that thing about the SAMA's um, Uh, um, yeah, in, in SA we've we actually, you know, this there's so many, uh, awards. They used to be the, in the, uh, the one, that brings to my mind that I actually want to talk about, uh, actually when it got cancelled or got pulled out some years ago, it was in the early two thousands. I was entering the art and the arts in Joburg. Uh, it was called the Brett Kebble Art Award And, um, at that time it was seen as, uh, I think it ran for two, maybe three years, uh, it was seen as like the, I guess, award for emerging, I guess, established artist, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, if you know SA politics, like Brett Kebble, use that thing as either a money laundering thing. It was, but it was very political, you know, and he got assassinated a few years. Later, and it was a whole thing and then like the artwork. So I always found that like really, uh, as a pretty crazy example of like the value of awards, you know, I don't really think they mean shit. You know, this is a few people giving a few, I don't know, just pinpointing pointing this one, this one. And this one. Personally, I don't think an artist's merit is, but I get your thing of but on the other end, you know, I mean, um, If you get like what you get jussus Uh, I think there's definitely some, I think you should, win an award for winning awards, you know, and then like you, the only give it out, like once every 10 years or something, or 12 years or something ridiculous, you know, and I don't know, but anyway, my brother, man, um, yeah, man, I get that, man. I still want to, um, Uh, you know, since the, since the last time, or I wanna move on to the next topic, actually, since the last time we spoke, um, This is coming from a covid, uh, kind of like angle. Um, the arts has been, uh, like everything is turned. In South Africa, um, when was it? On the 5th of March, uh, it marked, a year, since the first case got, uh, recorded in South Africa. And I think the first death. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it was, uh, I think the first death was a few days later, and then a hard lockdown was the middle of the month or something. Um, and, uh, so it's a year. It's the, uh, it's the, uh, uh, So I, I sorta wanted to use that like as a measuring stick, um, just to, just to rate or to look at like how drastically things have changed, because then, uh, because down here, I mean, um, uh, we now in that level one and, uh, you know, No sport is happening, but like, I know nightclubs are not open. And, and, and I mean, you actually, you can have art. I mean, this guy's having art shows, but music, theaters, and all of that stuff, um, that's still not happening. So, um, on this platform, Uh, last year and talking to a bunch of people about how they've been adapting to the, to the, to the, this new normal now and a year on man. So in your opinion, given like all that, I've just said, given your opinion, uh, where do you stand? Are you, um, Or rather, how have you adapted? Uh, and this there's a few other things that I want to pick your brain, um, sort of around that, but like, let's just start with like, how have you adapted a year on, into, uh, into COVID given that like what you've been doing?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:13:06
I'm fucking weirder now. I like, I look at myself like, yo, I don't even recognize myself anymore. Uh, you know, most of the time it's just, I'm there determination either working on my personal shit or, you know, you'll get the upgrade. So, um, but I think the market for. The thing has opened up for editing and stuff like that and has opened up a bit. I think more people are writing now. okay, most people are writing crap. Kind of to just stay employed. I was just getting weird and weirder had a lot of shit I had to do, you know, um, I'm like, unlike politicians I sort my shit out I wanted to do. And it would just stopping the traps right there. So, um, I'm even contemplating postponing my, my launch, which we scheduled for 30 June or the Testament of black Jesus but we'll see, we'll see how that goes. And that's, I think the hardest part is not being sure about anything, not being sure of when. Uh, the next curfew will be with, you know, frisked by the police for trying to get into town and you go to the bank or something. Um, that's the hardest part. It's fucked up. I enjoy my, my, my downtime. Working on my shit, you know, fucking up people's lives, but there is so much you can do So much to write in the day.
Wesley Pepper:
00:14:49
Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you, my brother, uh, interesting. Uh, like the, um, just like you said with cops frisking, you and just like, just this like sort of, uh, pseudo police state, uh, like over here, um, um, um, It seems like I, from what I can tell it, it seems pretty relaxed on the street. Um, I haven't really seen like a heavy, uh, yeah, it's just fucked up, man. The, the, the, the, the, because they've, um, they've dished out the, uh, or other, this vaccine roll-outs have started, but there's so much confusion. Uh, poor communication. Um, around the, around the hows, and the whens of that, that, that, that is actually adding to, I guess I actually want to actually want to know want to get to the vaccine, but that's, um, but that's a bit later, but, um, just to, um, just to, um, just to go a step back about like how you've even adapting. Um, yeah, man, I hear that, like, there was also, there was also an interesting point that, um, that a few writers and artists, I know that picked up that I mean that I notice a few artists say, was that? Like, even though the, uh, Uh, the I'm talking largely 2020 though. Lockdown was bad, but like, it's this type of adversity. We sort of used to it and we've been working with it for the longest time. And it was just a matter of adapting. So it's sort of like with the cockroaches, you know, it's like survived everything and we're still here, you know? Um, so. Interesting men also, I've also been noticing a lot of artists have been very productive last year and a lot of content is coming out this year. So that's something interesting to be tracking as well. Um, so you, uh, you were saying that your book uh I sort of want to move on to like more current projects, man. Um, because, um, um, My brother. I'm very, I'm very interested in like sort of tracking this. Um, I sort of want to get into that, I guess, as the podcast was, get more technical into tracking artists processes in creating. So you were saying, uh, what would the project in, um, that you were thinking of launching in June? Was it, uh, so tell us a little bit about that then what's it about? And more so how did it of come about, you know, where is it? Where does it come from?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:16:58
Inspiration for my work is usually art, because I work, I write everyday and sometimes like, you know, flip flop on this and that, um, so we can start off with a dare okay I dare you to write a one room play. Um, so The Testament of Black Jesus Part of it came up like that. I wanted to, start something people thinking about, you know, the identity of Jesus and what does it mean to be Christian? As long as I know it's going to be a fucking right and don't take the circumstances of his birth and adopt them here in Africa. You know, input things like make Black Jesus a woman. Ah, fuck. Yeah.
Wesley Pepper:
00:17:49
Sorry. Okay. Moving on.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:17:54
It was a woman and she's born in a unnamed, African Southern African country during the civil war. Sure. She's, she's bought a lot of poverty. There's a mother was raped by one of the soldiers in the genocide That it's a beautiful piece of writing. Then it's like, like prose, poetry, and drama all strewn into one. One thing, it's something like the closest thing that I've alluded to is Milton's paradise lost Gibran the prophet. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that beautiful language and some thought provoking shit, you know, but it comes back to the basics if you're even using, as far as I understand them, uh, you know, Judaism, uh, Judaism, Buddhism Christianity They all have one thing in common, the golden rule: Don't be a fucking asshole..
Wesley Pepper:
00:18:53
You know, like you just, you just said something that seriously triggered something. I, and like, it's like, I've seen this now in you, the fourth person, but like, I just want to ask you two more questions about that, just to, just to see if my, yeah. If my, if what I'm picking up is, is like, uh, you conceptualize this body of work last year.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:19:14
Um, I finished the draft last June, my working draft I, finished it in June Yeah. Uh, but I, I have been working on it for a while. Uh, yeah, you could have my project was about three years old by the time there indistinct.
Wesley Pepper:
00:19:30
I get that. I get that, uh, um, I'm asking last year specifically, uh, because I you're the fourth person. I actually the third, the third this week. Um, I've just while I've been talking to who's, uh, I guess they, um, where their, it's not just their thought patterns their perspective and everything is moving down a spiritual path and some of them are creating, like in your case, a conceptualize, a body of work around. I think that subject matter sounds very interesting, uh, sound super interesting. And I was just thinking of this, this visuals in my head as well, but like, I kind of want to get to that. Um, but like, I. I think that, I think that's pretty interesting. I think that's really interesting. It seemed like somehow, um, and I'll be tracking it on, on, on, on this podcasts is that like this, this real mind shift, um, and artists are always the first group of people to pick it up and to make it real and to put it out there. Do you have any, do you have any thoughts on that?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:20:30
People are moving you the world that we knew been destroyed and everyone's looking for answers again, And, you know, more time on our own, uh, next distractions or these so much alcohol, you can drink on your own. Uh, you know, and you know, people starting to think about life and the meaning of it, you know? So, um, I think I'm guilty of being one of those people that started thinking more about spirituality and all that in the lockdown. Yeah, that period on your own, really, you know, uh, I guess gets the mind cranking And one way I deal with my thoughts is by writing it's cathartic for me So yeah, I think these, these, there's definitely a shift towards thinking about the bigger picture. Like what does all mean? You know, I've been planning for five years and shit is just fucked up. So we need something to believe in again.
Wesley Pepper:
00:21:24
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, um, I find that, I find that quite, I find that quite crazy. Um, it's rather, I find quite interesting. So, uh, just, uh, just, um, just back to you, um, back to your book, uh, just like, uh, I guess commercial side of everything. Um, are you still getting self published or are you working with a publisher?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:21:45
I would really love to take the pressure off myself and work with another publisher, but I mean, in Zimbabwe like I said in, the other podcast there is no publishing industry in Zimbabwe, so I've been trying to pitch my project that I'm working on. And one of the publishers who was Libra press, which is like, you know, one of the biggest publishers, like in the country, you know, like one of the top two. Because I'm a book has left this operational base in Wales. Uh, unfortunately Libra Press were no longer publishing your fiction. So, and they, they, they advise me to go self-publishing and all that, which I'm good at I mean, I, I learnt from you
Wesley Pepper:
00:22:32
thanks bro, but all that's a, that's a serious compliment. That's a serious compliment.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:22:37
Oh yeah. I did. I did. I, did you look at, look, look at, I look at my works, man. I still use, I mean I'm terrible at drawing but I still use water marks Yeah, and shit like that. So I wouldn't, I want to give the burden to someone else. Uh, I've spoken to my publisher, uh, my previous publisher about, you know, to do the translation and all that. But locally, it looks like I might have to carry the weight of it, yeah.
Wesley Pepper:
00:23:05
I was going to. I was gonna say like, um, I mean, surely there must be publishers in South Africa. Uh, in the rest of the continent, I mean, like, um, haven't you been, uh, I mean, haven't you been approached or ever thought of certain of that? I think, um, Ja man even if, even somebody like uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, um Geko, publishing, I mean, I, I mean, I mean, he does, I mean, I mean, I mean, Phehello and actually we, we started more or less the same time, so he's, he's been around haven't you ever too. I mean, because, um, so I, you know, and I don't want to, I don't want to just assume. I know, I understand the frustrations and everything because I firstly, from, from, from working point of view I know exactly what you say, if you want to take some of that stress and I think you deserve it after such a long line of, of books, you know, you need to reach a point like that shit is not going to be, I just want to consider, uh, you know, focus on writing. So I think as, as, as I like that, you have to deserve that. So I. I just, I just find it difficult to understand, like, I mean, South Africa, even Nigeria, Nigeria, Kenya. I know there's some really cool people over there too. Like, I don't know. Isn't the isn't isn't the continent responding to you work or from a, from a publishing point of view?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:24:18
Well, it is, uh, it is, um, I sent in a couple of short stories, uh, And we'll see how that goes. Yeah. But it's like, I can definitively say that there are no publishers in Zim there's some kids that. You know, the younger, but these, these, but when I'm, when I looked at the contract and the model of what they were wanting to do with my work. Yeah it felt like it wasn't right there. It's my baby. You know my writings and my baby.
Wesley Pepper:
00:25:03
I get you. I get you. I get you. Um, and I, uh, I'm even thinking now with what's happening in the US um, um, especially around there's this whole. Um revival around, identity, blackness.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:25:20
With all the money in the black card right now right now Yeah. Biden Biden don't fuck shit up for us now
Wesley Pepper:
00:25:33
Yeah, I was reading. Um, yeah. Anyway, I was, I was, I was, I was reading up this thing on a. There's this interesting diaspora in Canada. Uh, so says it, the large part of everybody's, I guess that's like downtown joburg to like Like, so I think, um, honestly, my brother, I think you deserve a batch bigger and I get you with that whole. I think those people should have a engine in place. Um, and it should do your work justice, uh, on that point actually, uh, last year, um, just from a South African. Uh, publishing, uh, sort of perspective. Um, last year with the SA book week, uh, we had a, uh, the zoom conference meeting thing and we were about 30, just under, under 30. Uh, so it was a bit of everybody. publishers. Everybody, but mostly but mostly publishers. And, um, I found it, I found it very, uh, or rather, I saw, I saw two things that, um, First of all the, uh, the publisher from locally, uh, that was, uh, still using or other that founded the thing or the business model, like in the nineties, uh, or some of the, even further back the eighties, uh, and was still being around and who hasn't adapted like their businesses, you know, is on the way out. Um, and, um, the whole, um, the other thing is that the whole, um, Uh, you know, policing of movement and all of this and other, you know, uh, packages getting from one place to another, I guess there's a bit of a, I guess Africans are still learning to adapt around that. And, um, so the publishing world in general, I mean, like the only opened up libraries, bro, like the other day, like the other day, this is like, so it's basically, we closed for like a fucking year. Uh, given, um, given take, I mean, so yes man, like I, I, you know, you know, there's, there's so many things that like actually discussed you know the government handles our industry. But, um, so these guys have been, have been, um, I've kind of drifting off there. So these guys at you know, have been dealing with, with, um, with, um, with some shit. So on the other hand as much as I understand. What you're saying. And I, and I said, um, you know, in terms of publishing. And I also think like now more than ever, it's like a time to fuck man just own everything. And, uh, because these companies and stuff, um, nobody, nobody. Yeah, man. Like, I just think we should, instead of waiting or asking somebody else to change, we should change it ourselves. But on the other hand, I also know the pain that goes involved with making a body of work. So I, I hear you on that. Yeah.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:28:16
I'm working on. My, my, my last book, like Philtrum, which I released like a week, like two weeks Robert Mugabe resigned. uh, it's fucking performing. I mean, it's fucking performing man. It's been great It's doing well in London. It's doing well on Amazon winning international awards. Yeah. Also, um, I'm, I'm looking at my other words and I'm saying like, I know, I feel like I don't have the capacity to see the business the way it should like I feel like there's more potential in the old works than, and, you know, putting out something new again So let's, let's get like my conundrum, like how to manage the brand, the business. And still keep being an artist, which is what keeps me alive, you know, like emotionally and then, you know, sanity wise. A question.
Wesley Pepper:
00:29:25
Yeah. Uh, sort of like to brainstorm with you sort of, kind of, uh, have you, um, if philtrum is doing that well and I've yeah. I mean, I've, I've seen your posts and all of that and super congratulations for that. My brother, first of all, um, Don't you think like, uh, or that you can create like a brand just around the book. So this includes like the art cover, you know, different images in the book and I'm talking like branding as like hardcore commercial shit, like printing of t-shirts stickers, that type of thing. And, um, sort of run with that.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:29:59
We have bags of that shit I hooked up with a local designer. She does amazing bags and shoes.
Wesley Pepper:
00:30:07
What type of, what type of beds? Like laptop bags.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:30:10
Yeah, because she does all kinds of bags. So I bought this thing or this nice thing item made, you know, with the face and the blurb. Yeah, fucking do well man, so that's local stuff, but now you see, all that shit needs investment So, uh, you know, so yeah, it's. That's the thing, like I don't want to start a new project But maybe the latest one is going to be the one that will make a million dollars.
Wesley Pepper:
00:30:50
That's crazy. That's crazy brother, because, uh, I think what you need is like, uh, A big team was thinking, but like a big, a large team. Yeah. You need a, you need guys to work on the branding guys to do distribution. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I think I probably some IT guys to do. E-commerce and uh, yeah, you definitely, you definitely, you definitely need that.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:31:21
So stuff like that, there's a lot of potential in the brand that needs exploring. Um, I'm a bit of ambivalent about, you know adding more tasks,
Wesley Pepper:
00:31:36
actually let me, um, let me, um, let me ask you about that how thin. And I mean, like Philani you, how old are you now? Like in your late twenties, early thirties, right?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:31:47
Right.
Wesley Pepper:
00:31:47
So, I mean, like if you spread, because, because I mean, you've been doing this gig for 10 years now. So the amount of the, the amount of work, uh, or, and I'm speaking from experience here, uh, Being, um, being spread like that, that thing as, uh, has, has a clock as well. You know, you might think you can do it forever, but you fucking can't. Like it it's just physically impossible. So I guess I'll ask you, when is your body gonna clock out, but like, do you feel like, uh, you know, a point when you say I, you know, enough, I can't do this shit anymore.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:32:27
Yeah. You just have to keep going. Um, Just in front of me to keep going. And then, you know what, those late hours I would sometimes have that I see like three computers, like what's the line over there. And I know each one of them have something that I have to do it because I'm listening to some Nina simone and some shit. Oh, I know that. Yeah, but you have to keep going then. And uh, I tried to it's about, I've been filling up some, you know, some, some young cats, their head is not in that space, which is like, we've even got one of the highest rates of employment in the world. We've got people with degrees and marketing and publishing. And you guys unemployment in the world. You're like, Hey, lets work something out Maybe my ideas are to radical.
Wesley Pepper:
00:33:25
You know, as you, as you, as you're saying this, I wanna, you know, I feel, I feel, I wish I could help it at some point because I, what I'm trying to, where I'm, where I see the value, uh, and this cuts across sort of all genres now is for, is for artists to kind of do what I'm, what I'm doing here with the podcast is creating, um, his, uh, own channel. Um, and, and, and, and, and, and just generating content regularly on that, um, and sort of have a team extraction. My brother, you know, um, I don't wanna, I don't wanna talk, I don't wanna say things that I can't own up to. So, um, this point actually got my brain wracking. So I think just for the sake of the specific episode in this specific podcast, I'll just put it through, uh, Pause button on that, but like, I really want to talk to you further on that, like on a personal level, uh, a little time later because you know, I just, I honestly, I just feel it's fucking unfair and it's this wrong, you know? Um, actually, um, Actually I saw, um, I saw something on your, uh, Facebook page. Uh, there were some artists, uh, in Zim that died because I saw some other, somebody, somebody else? Yes. um Rashid Yogi?, something like that. Um, I saw, um, I saw or rather, I mean, like I only became aware of him, like at, fortunately now that he's passed on And I saw some of his work. It was really interesting. He seemed like a really colorful character. Did you know him personally?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:34:49
Yeah, Rashid and I did bump into each other at the gallery all the time he's a fucking enigma, beautiful guy, you know, beautiful soul. The amazing visual artist is obstruct work and stuff, and that's It's sad because he died of indistinct I dont know if you know him Rashid used to. Well, jokes, jokes in the industry Like, you know, he's cool and stuff. So all those guys will be there. Every show, you know, he's there and he gets on his bicycle and cycles away at the end of the day So like I'm saying like a lockdown has made me weird and stuff. I can't help thinking that maybe, maybe Rashid died of loneliness.
Wesley Pepper:
00:35:43
Fuck man. Yeah, look. Yeah. Uh, hoof that's um, actually I don't want to go down that road in closing, man. Uh, and I'm asking everybody this, are you going to get vaccinated? If no, why? Or, you know, Yeah. Give me a reason for you saying yes or no. Are you gonna get vaccinated? And, um, um, actually I haven't read of anything. Um, has Zim got some form of rollout, a strategy or, you know, all those things.
Philani A Nyoni:
00:36:11
Yeah. Well, Zim is Africa, you know, like central africa who gets shoved out with machetes and AKA's Africa, um, So they only got like 200 000 doses from China and the, you have to get like two doses of that stuff, which is like, basically, you know, they, they have a 100 thousand. Yes. I don't know, man. I've got a good immune system. I'm not afraid of dying. Uh, you know, like I've been playing, um, what's it called? Uh, chicken all the time. So I'm not, I'm not gonna I'm neither. Yes, nor, no. Um, But like, I'd probably get a vaccine if like I needed to move out of the country and shit.
Wesley Pepper:
00:37:12
Well, I think, I think that's gonna be mandatory. Um, I think it really, I think it already is, um, um, um, um, even around even onset, Oh, well I'm well, all over. And I also know that there's still certain and, uh, uh, uh, you know, you're banned to go to certain countries. And like this whole covid shit is not going away bro. Uh, uh, Okay. I think, I think that, I think you did pretty well, uh, Philani, like my brother, this, I think that's it from me man. And, um, thanks for coming through again, you know? Uh, I, yeah, and I guess like, um, strength moving forward, man. Like I, um, I want to help out some of them and, um, I just like, like, I'm like, I'm sitting here. I don't know how yet. But like, um, I also, I also find that, um, This whole, uh, I guess it's like, I, I don't want to sound like some happy go clappy bullshit but like the, um, the fact that there's, I just find that this whole thing, this whole 4g of a movement on my, um, migration, um, there's seriously opportunities there for artists to own their own shit. But anyway, that's topic for another day, man. Um, what are you up to sort of like finally sort of in closing What are you up to for the rest of the day?
Philani A Nyoni:
00:38:39
Uh, well, I mean, my electricity just went, hasn't been there all day, so, uh, I've just exhausted my batteries. I was actually, yeah, I'm on 25% now. Thank God. Um, as opposed to my laptop battery, no it's alright pleasure talking to you and I acutally have an idea on how we can work together.
Wesley Pepper:
00:39:03
Yeah, man. Let's let's do that private chat a little bit later. Like I don't want to take more of your battery time making a we'll chat through social media, man. And, um, I'll touch base with you with regards to when this episode goes live. Um, and thanks for coming through, bro.
Spudcaster:
00:39:20
baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available. And all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts, podcasts, your life with baobulb.org.
Wesley Pepper:
00:39:37
Um, yeah, man, that was Philani. That was really cool. You know, that was really cool. Uh, it always sucks to hear these stories as an artist, man. Like I should really just like, you know, fucking hurts and, and, and I hate hearing shit like that. You know, I guess, because I probably walked in a similar path perhaps a few years ago, you know? Um, yeah, I mean, go with us. We brought out, um, artists are either artists are dying man Um, I didn't know that. I didn't know, actually personally, but like I said, I. I've heard of him just not too long ago. And, um, I've heard, you know, about him through other other artists and I hate stories like that, but anyway, man, you know, moving forward from, uh, moving forward, you know, we got to, uh, to Candice Nolan from Spudcaster and Baobulb. Um, for hosting me and they did my, um, producing, I think that all fantastic job putting this whole show together, big up to them for that. Um, and, um, moving forward, like next week's episode, um, We do having a more like a, um, I'm still as a, sort of a toss up between, um, I have this, uh, I found this, um, Artists called KT That's that's really, really interesting. Um, um, he does this really interesting work on canvas and he paints these sneakers. I thought he does a really, really cool work. But, um, I S um, so if he's not featured next weekend, he'll be featured in two weeks time because I'm also, I'm setting up a show too with Bitcoin. Um, yeah. Another follow up on that, um, thing with Bitcoin and, um, how the arts can use it. I think it's a conversation that you should start having. I think it's very important for the arts. Um, I think we should start adding these conversations and we'll be adding that. Um, I think that will be the next episode, as I said this just a bit of a scheduling thing and, um, yeah, so, but I'll make that announcement on my Twitter account. So you want me to catch up on all the streaming platforms too, and, um, I'll chat to you you next week.
