Espadrilles: From Neolithic Farmers to Naguisa [Ep:5]

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Yoana: Welcome back to Sarcurious
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Chandler: Here we are
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Yoana: Chandler, this is our
first episode recording live
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since going live with the pod
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Chandler: I know.
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Recording feels kind of weird.
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I I feel like it's been a second.
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Last time we recorded we were together
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Yoana: I know.
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I will say, though, I'm excited for being
in the same time zone when we record.
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I think that's gonna be a huge plus
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Chandler: For real.
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That will be a game changer
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Yoana: what's going on?
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Chandler: Not much.
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I'm a little worried.
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I think we have a thunderstorm rolling in,
and you'll probably be able to hear it.
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Yoana: And the doggos.
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We'll hear the doggos too
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Chandler: Yep, y'all hear the dogs?
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This is the third thunderstorm the
third day in a row, which is crazy.
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But we need it 'cause we're in a
drought, so I won't complain too much.
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And I'm glad we're doing this
today because as you know, I
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just got my hair done, and I
was kinda crashing out about it.
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was like, "I feel like I made a mistake",
cause I got it highlighted, and I
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usually only do color, not lightening.
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So this was my first time actually
styling it since I got it done, and
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now I've decided it looks fine and
I was crashing out for no reason.
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Yoana: It looks great.
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Chandler: Thank you
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Yoana: I feel like, a hair crash
out once a year is a pretty…
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I think it's a good standard.
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I just had one in March.
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That one hurt
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Chandler: Well, I think this
is like a full-blown crash-out.
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I had a nightmare that I had the bob again
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Yoana: Can you imagine?
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You just, told me you got a haircut.
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You didn't send me a photo.
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We start recording, and
you just show up full bob.
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Fabulous.
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I think it'd be really good
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Chandler: that I'm having
nightmares that I have a bob
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Yoana: I think the bob
was an iconic moment
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Chandler: Oh, that's so funny.
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Yoana: Ah.
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Chandler: we just had the 4th of July.
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Yoana: Uh-huh
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Chandler: Yours sounded good
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Yoana: It was good.
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We said goodbye to the motorcycle
'cause we were parking it with family
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while we move out east, which was sad.
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I was really wanting to take it out on
Vermont roads and highways, which I know
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sounds dangerous, but, I love the bike.
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And we ended the 4th
with a ride at sunset.
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I put on Creed, "Arms Wide Open",
Alice In Chains, "Nutshell", and
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I was on the back of the bike.
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I put my hands up for one second.
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Dylan's like, "Put your hands
down." And I'm like, "I'm living
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my "Ride" and "National Anthem"
Lana Del Rey dream right here.
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Chandler: Oh my God.
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I'm torn on had I been there
if I would've been like, "Wow,
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she's so iconic for that," or if I
would've been like, "I don't know
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who that is." We're not affiliated.
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Yoana: I feel like in my head it
looked really romantic, you know?
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But, if you were behind me, it
probably wasn't as, you know
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Chandler: If I were behind you, I would've
been like, "Whose 16-year-old thinks
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that it's 2016 Tumblr era right now?"
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Yoana: No, literally it was Tumblr era.
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I was leaning into that, but I needed it.
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I just kinda…
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Chandler: That's fair.
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That's very freeing
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Yoana: It was very freeing.
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Chandler: That's great.
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Yoana: rolling hills
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,
a dream
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Chandler: You were in the
rolling hills listening to Creed.
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I'm, actually dying,
sweating my fucking ass off.
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Yoana: That was crazy
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Chandler: It was insane.
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we lost power Friday night
during the Argentina game.
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So it's tied 2-2.
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We're locked into the game.
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We're like, "We're gonna finish this
game. We're gonna go get ice cream. What
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a time to be alive." All of a sudden just
game switches off, sitting in the dark.
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We're like, " Oh, right." Power was out
from Friday afternoon to Monday night.
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.
Yoana: That long?
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Chandler: Yeah.
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I felt so bad for my in-laws.
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So we, ended up sleeping at
a family's member's house,
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cause, it was over 100 degrees.
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Like, you can't… It's crazy.
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Yoana: Yeah
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Chandler: and then of course on my drive
home, which was, a nine-hour drive,
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the AC stopped working in the Jeep.
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But it was fun.
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Honestly, I'm complaining
more than I should be.
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It was a good fourth.
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Yoana: Yeah.
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I read your texts in your voice, I
wasn't, sure a lot of your intonation
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throughout the weekend, 'cause I was like,
"Which phase is she at with where this
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is at?" but we're back, and your hair
looks great, so that's all that matters
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Chandler: No more nightmares.
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Yoana: No more nightmares
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Chandler: ready to talk
about some espadrilles
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Yoana: Let's do it
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Chandler: I'm excited for this one.
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It's different than others we've
done in a couple different ways.
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Feel like this is the first
truly unisex moment we've had.
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Pleats, there were a few, but but I feel
like espadrilles it's really truly unisex.
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I don't wanna spoil too much, but I feel
like a lot of our other topics go from
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one wealth direction to the other, and
this one kind of follows the opposite
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trajectory, which is a little bit fun.
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so maybe I'll just hop
us into some history.
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So I'm gonna just define what
an espadrille is, in case
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you have yet to hear of them.
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And then after that I'm going to
walk us through the history, which
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starts in Spain, and then spreads
through the rest of the Mediterranean,
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up into France a little bit.
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And, will end us with some
players across the sea.
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So espadrille's definition is they're
a lightweight, casual summer shoe
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featuring a flexible sole made
of woven rope or braided fibers.
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The fibers could be jute or
a certain kind of grass we'll
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talk a lot about called esparto.
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And then a soft upper typically crafted
from cotton canvas or fabric, and they
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come in both flat and heeled styles.
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Our story here, it's interesting.
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we talked about in pleats the Tarkhan
dress is the oldest woven textile
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piece of fashion history that we have.
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That remains true, but espadrilles takes
us even further back than ancient Egypt.
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It starts 6,000 years
ago in Granada, Spain.
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So we're in the Cueva de los Murciélagos.
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which means Cave of the Bats, which
is in Albuñol, Granada, Spain.
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So, basically they discovered this
collection of ancient artifacts in this
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cave, and then they were re-dated in
2023, and one of the items that was
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re-dated was this collection of woven
footwear in which they discovered
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that they were about 2,000 years
older than was originally understood.
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these shoes are 6,200 years old,
making them among the oldest
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surviving shoes in Europe.
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And they were woven from this fiber
called esparto, which is a type
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of grass, which is the root of
our modern-day word espadrilles.
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But esparto grass is a tough fibrous
grass from the Mediterranean that's
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been traditionally used to weave
these shoes, it's indigenous to
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Southern Spain and Northern Africa.
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what's really interesting about
these is this predates written
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history by about 1,000 years.
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So this really shows that people in Iberia
had an ancient tradition of weaving.
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It was a material that was used
for a lot of different things.
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and those shoes are kind of the precursor
to today's espadrille and then that
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moves us along to the Bronze Age to
the Roman period, when esparto really
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becomes one of the Mediterranean's
most valuable natural materials.
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the Romans used it for a lot of stuff,
so that's rope, baskets, ship rigging,
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floor mats, sandals, military equipment.
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it's funny, Pliny the Elder
actually discussed it in his
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book Natural History and just how
useful it was during Roman times.
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there's this funny anecdote about
how basically he complains about
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it because it spreads so easily
that once it's in a landscape, it's
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basically impossible to get rid of.
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Pliny says, "It belongs to a dry soil,
and all the blame for it attaches to
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the earth, for it is a curse of the
land, and nothing else can be grown or
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can spring up there." so he's basically
like, it's everywhere, it's kind of
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annoying, but at the same time it's really
valuable, so you can't hate it too much.
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Yoana: It's like taking, I don't know,
the way that you would think about an
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invasive species or something and how
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they just spread.
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I mean, like blackberry is
really invasive in California.
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It spreads like crazy.
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But it's cool 'cause they found something
that shows up everywhere, not even maybe
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even by human action, but just by probably
human movement unknowingly, and then
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they find a way to make it all useful.
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Chandler: Yeah, esparto is not necessarily
more durable than other natural grasses,
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but it fares a little bit better in
the salt . So it does eventually start
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cracking if it gets too much salt
in it because it basically makes it
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continually expand and then dry back down,
which can weaken the fibers over time.
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But esparto does a bit better with
salt than a lot of other grasses and
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fibers, so that's why they used it
for everything including sea rigging.
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that kind of tradition of those woven
shoes continues up until the 11th to
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the 13th centuries, which is when we
get the first true what we would think
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of today as espadrilles, so kind of
moving beyond just that precursor shoe.
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there's this, surviving municipal
ordinance that regulates the
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manufacture of espadrilles from 1322.
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this is a document that was
written in medieval Catalan
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and refers to espardenyes,
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which is a word that comes from
espart, as in esparto grass.
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The suffix enya makes the word a noun,
so it essentially means the shoe made of
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esparto And the modern-day translation of
that medieval Catalan would be espadrille.
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the translation is, " It was ordered that
the espadrilles be well made and made
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of good esparto." And then it continues
on and cites requirements for the shoes,
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which include 26 stitching points in
each shoe, 11 cords across the top of
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the foot, and four cords at the heel.
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and it basically orders that any
espadrilles that are sold that
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fail to meet these standards
would be confiscated and burned.
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I think that's crazy.
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Yoana: What makes good esparto?
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Chandler: Yeah, I mean, it's
really difficult to turn from a
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raw material to a finished shoe
because it's very labor-intensive.
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You have to dry it correctly, weave
it correctly, all those things.
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this ordinance shows us that these were
already worn so much that they needed
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the government to regulate how they
were made because there was competition
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amongst people making the shoe, and
they needed to be regulated to prevent
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consumers from being taken advantage of.
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the demand was really high, and
that's why they had to have these
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ordinances in place to make sure that
they were of the correct quality.
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these were, , entrenched in
daily life for the Spaniards.
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The people wearing these, it's
farmers, children, all families that
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are of the working class are wearing
these as their day-to-day shoe.
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Reason being, they're
cheaper than leather.
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leather doesn't fare that well in that
climate because if it gets too hot, then
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it gets stiff, and then if it gets wet,
it can take multiple days to dry out.
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So this grass really fares a lot better
along the Mediterranean near the sea.
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so that's why they favored
these over a leather shoe.
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Yoana: Well, it's interesting
'cause, a lot of the things that
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we've talked about in the past,
I feel like there was this theme.
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We talked about it with lace collars,
with pleats, um, about, like, sumptuary
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laws and how they put rules on a class
of what they could and couldn't wear.
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And in a way, this ordinance
is kinda flipping it.
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you're talking about the shoe,
it's incredibly functional.
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It's a pivotal part of the trade in
Spain, and you need the population to
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be in, shoes that are, in a way, like,
allow them to do their work, right?
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it almost feels like the government
is protecting a class that in the
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previous episodes we had talked
about experienced sumptuary laws
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to stop them from, expressing
themselves with a certain garment.
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And here it's ensuring that the garment
is effectively, good enough for them.
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So kind of a flip, right?
226
00:10:47,175 --> 00:10:51,485
Chandler: Yeah, I mean, these ordinances
existed for many common household goods.
227
00:10:51,495 --> 00:10:54,825
So you would see the same
for, like, flour or bread.
228
00:10:54,925 --> 00:10:54,945
Yoana: Mm-hmm.
229
00:10:55,019 --> 00:10:59,029
Chandler: And so the fact that there
was one placed for these shoes just,
230
00:10:59,129 --> 00:11:00,849
again, shows how entrenched they were.
231
00:11:00,859 --> 00:11:04,909
To your point, these laws exist, but it's
for different products in different ways.
232
00:11:05,059 --> 00:11:08,609
Sumptuary laws, it's really to protect
the interests of the upper class,
233
00:11:08,609 --> 00:11:10,299
whereas this one, it's opposite.
234
00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:12,299
And the upper classes
weren't wearing these at all.
235
00:11:12,299 --> 00:11:15,479
what's interesting, too, I
mentioned that the esparto is also
236
00:11:15,479 --> 00:11:17,109
indigenous to Northern Africa.
237
00:11:17,209 --> 00:11:21,949
alongside that medieval Catalan
word, the espardenyes, we have the
238
00:11:22,223 --> 00:11:27,483
Spanish word alpargata which entered
Spain through Andalusi Arabic.
239
00:11:27,553 --> 00:11:33,963
So it basically comes through the word
albargat, which refers to a peasant shoe.
240
00:11:34,013 --> 00:11:39,036
So word reflects centuries of Islamic
influence in the Iberian Peninsula,
241
00:11:39,186 --> 00:11:41,326
and it's hard to exactly translate.
242
00:11:41,326 --> 00:11:44,416
Historians are kind of cautious with
giving it a precise translation,
243
00:11:44,426 --> 00:11:47,946
But it basically is, again, peasant
shoe or a shoe meant for everyday
244
00:11:47,946 --> 00:11:49,716
wear among the working class.
245
00:11:49,796 --> 00:11:54,246
and so that word is referring to who wore
the shoe rather than the material that it
246
00:11:54,246 --> 00:11:56,736
was made from, as opposed to the Catalan.
247
00:11:57,236 --> 00:12:01,966
the prefix al- was added to an older
pre-Roman Iberian word, to form that.
248
00:12:01,966 --> 00:12:06,746
So it's a cool linguistic split, only
because it kind of shows in Spain,
249
00:12:06,746 --> 00:12:10,533
you have these differences because
of the Andalusi and the fact that
250
00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:14,483
there was all of this Arabic influence
coming in it basically shows these
251
00:12:14,513 --> 00:12:18,153
two parallel cultural traditions
that are describing the same shoe,
252
00:12:18,153 --> 00:12:19,583
but they do it in different ways.
253
00:12:19,693 --> 00:12:23,843
and yeah, it interestingly follows the
map of who was ruling what territories
254
00:12:23,893 --> 00:12:26,293
and where that word was used, even
though they meant the same thing.
255
00:12:26,393 --> 00:12:33,263
Yoana: Today we got to espadrille how
did we land on that exact form being the
256
00:12:33,263 --> 00:12:35,233
translation that is used across the board?
257
00:12:35,333 --> 00:12:39,353
Chandler: So if you look up alpargata,
you're still gonna get results for
258
00:12:39,353 --> 00:12:41,383
shoes, and they're still espadrilles.
259
00:12:41,383 --> 00:12:43,173
It's still a relevant word, alpargata.
260
00:12:43,283 --> 00:12:46,273
yeah, I just thought that was
cool 'cause I also love Granada.
261
00:12:46,323 --> 00:12:48,723
we went there on our honeymoon,
so it was fun to kind of learn a
262
00:12:48,723 --> 00:12:49,993
little bit more about the city.
263
00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:53,353
we kind of know exactly what these
look like because of that municipal
264
00:12:53,363 --> 00:12:56,643
ordinance, we know they had the braided
esparto sole, an upper attached by
265
00:12:56,643 --> 00:13:00,913
stitching, a heel section, and a system
of cords that were securing it to the
266
00:13:00,913 --> 00:13:04,413
foot, which is pretty close to what
a modern-day espadrille looks like.
267
00:13:04,413 --> 00:13:09,243
but these were handmade by special
craftsmen, which were espardenyers,
268
00:13:09,343 --> 00:13:11,683
which translates to espadrille makers.
269
00:13:11,773 --> 00:13:16,913
And from this time, so starting in,
1100s up until the 15th century,
270
00:13:17,013 --> 00:13:20,683
it's peasants, shepherds, vineyard
workers, fishermen, laborers are
271
00:13:20,683 --> 00:13:22,503
all wearing these on a daily basis.
272
00:13:22,533 --> 00:13:26,213
Reason being, they're cheap, they're
easy to repair, and then it's made
273
00:13:26,213 --> 00:13:29,253
of local materials, so you don't
have to rely too much on trade to
274
00:13:29,253 --> 00:13:31,373
get the goods you need to make them.
275
00:13:31,423 --> 00:13:33,963
Yoana: today, we see a lot of
different designs on these.
276
00:13:33,983 --> 00:13:37,353
But, in the beginning when they
are so common, you know, what's,
277
00:13:37,353 --> 00:13:39,603
like, the most common color here?
278
00:13:39,653 --> 00:13:42,393
What's, the original espadrille format?
279
00:13:42,433 --> 00:13:45,213
Chandler: What's hard about
these is the old ones from the
280
00:13:45,313 --> 00:13:47,203
Batcave, are such a one-off.
281
00:13:47,213 --> 00:13:50,003
We don't have a lot of surviving
examples of what these looked
282
00:13:50,003 --> 00:13:52,223
like from, 11 and 1200s.
283
00:13:52,333 --> 00:13:55,803
but my understanding is the canvas
would've been a natural color.
284
00:13:55,803 --> 00:13:57,013
They weren't really dyeing them.
285
00:13:57,113 --> 00:14:02,203
And original ones, like how it's
talked about in the municipal
286
00:14:02,203 --> 00:14:05,933
document, I don't think necessarily
had canvas that was attached.
287
00:14:05,983 --> 00:14:09,363
they're held onto your foot by those
ropes that they mentioned, the cords.
288
00:14:09,463 --> 00:14:12,293
then, yeah, I think the
colors were pretty natural.
289
00:14:12,343 --> 00:14:16,003
and they're made mostly of just
the esparto stitched together.
290
00:14:16,103 --> 00:14:19,243
Yoana: Okay, so you're not even, in
these early versions, you're not even
291
00:14:19,243 --> 00:14:23,423
seeing really canvas or anything,
it just is mostly these cords
292
00:14:23,523 --> 00:14:24,823
Chandler: Yeah, that's my understanding.
293
00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:30,123
I think, you're starting to get a little
bit of the canvas on the toppers by 15th
294
00:14:30,183 --> 00:14:35,603
century, 16th century, but not similar to
what it would look like in the traditional
295
00:14:35,613 --> 00:14:37,043
versions that are still relevant.
296
00:14:37,093 --> 00:14:40,923
so by the late Middle Ages, production's
becoming more specialized, and it-
297
00:14:40,943 --> 00:14:44,793
they basically go from like a household
craft to a specialized trade which
298
00:14:44,793 --> 00:14:46,823
were made in these family workshops.
299
00:14:46,833 --> 00:14:50,063
So families would specialize in
different parts of the process.
300
00:14:50,113 --> 00:14:51,443
I'll kind of paint you the picture.
301
00:14:51,603 --> 00:14:54,779
Imagine you're in a
Catalan village in 1750.
302
00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:57,259
You have one family that's
responsible for twisting rope.
303
00:14:57,319 --> 00:14:58,889
Another braids the soles.
304
00:14:58,989 --> 00:15:00,779
A third stitches the uppers.
305
00:15:00,809 --> 00:15:03,319
The children help prepare
the fibers after the harvest.
306
00:15:03,319 --> 00:15:06,329
They help with the harvest, and
then neighbors sell the finished
307
00:15:06,329 --> 00:15:08,139
shoes at the weekly market.
308
00:15:08,289 --> 00:15:11,539
So it's kind of something that A big
portion of a lot of these villages is
309
00:15:11,539 --> 00:15:16,159
taking part in because it's actually a
specialized enough skill that it requires
310
00:15:16,199 --> 00:15:20,059
multiple people who are are very good
at different parts of the process.
311
00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:22,089
sewing was often done by women at home.
312
00:15:22,139 --> 00:15:26,599
By the 15th to the 17th centuries
these are spread through a lot of
313
00:15:26,599 --> 00:15:28,809
the Iberian Peninsula and further up.
314
00:15:28,809 --> 00:15:31,979
So basically the Crown of
Aragon, basque Country and then
315
00:15:31,979 --> 00:15:34,169
across the Pyrenees into France.
316
00:15:34,179 --> 00:15:36,729
So the French Basque Region, Occitania.
317
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:38,109
They're being worn everywhere.
318
00:15:38,109 --> 00:15:42,249
So they're very ubiquitous and different
regions are developing different styles.
319
00:15:42,259 --> 00:15:45,639
So to your question earlier kind of what
the colors would be, Here is when we start
320
00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:47,219
to see those distinctions being made.
321
00:15:47,219 --> 00:15:51,789
so the classic Catalan version
is called the espardenya de vetes
322
00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:53,969
which means espadrille with ribbons.
323
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:58,299
And it basically is white or
natural canvas, a braided esparto
324
00:15:58,309 --> 00:16:02,429
sole, long cotton tapes, and then
ribbons wrapped around the ankle.
325
00:16:02,529 --> 00:16:06,329
And that's associated today with,
kind of the national dance of
326
00:16:06,498 --> 00:16:08,666
Catalonia which is the Sardana dance.
327
00:16:08,776 --> 00:16:12,616
But these are a cultural garb for a
lot of these regions throughout Spain,
328
00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:15,106
France, cause they were so common.
329
00:16:15,206 --> 00:16:19,426
in Valencia they have another local
variety where they basically were
330
00:16:19,426 --> 00:16:23,366
incorporating colored embroidery,
different ribbon arrangements, and
331
00:16:23,366 --> 00:16:25,386
then the canvas upper was cut higher.
332
00:16:25,446 --> 00:16:26,716
so they're just more colorful.
333
00:16:26,786 --> 00:16:31,836
And then the Basque version generally
became known as the alpargata and it
334
00:16:31,836 --> 00:16:36,186
featured darker canvas, heavier soles,
and simpler decoration, which I think
335
00:16:36,186 --> 00:16:40,836
is just honestly a reflection of what
was more practical for the landscape
336
00:16:40,846 --> 00:16:43,615
of the Basque region versus Catalonia.
337
00:16:43,896 --> 00:16:47,276
Then we get to the 18th century,
when the color itself starts
338
00:16:47,276 --> 00:16:48,546
to kind of carry meaning.
339
00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:52,656
These are worn so often that people
started to have different versions that
340
00:16:52,656 --> 00:16:54,620
they would use for different occasions.
341
00:16:54,630 --> 00:16:59,210
So a natural white you would use for
church, for weddings and festivals,
342
00:16:59,250 --> 00:17:02,520
and then black would be reserved
for field work and everyday labor.
343
00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:05,700
we get more and more of these regional
examples with red ribbons, blue
344
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:09,780
ribbons, woven stripes, embroidery,
there's a lot of them so I'm not gonna
345
00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:13,173
go through the whole list, but every
region has its own version that's kind
346
00:17:13,173 --> 00:17:14,893
of part of their cultural identity.
347
00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:19,053
But yeah, so over this, these 500
years, not many changes until we
348
00:17:19,053 --> 00:17:23,123
get to the 19th century, which
everything kinda starts to evolve.
349
00:17:23,213 --> 00:17:25,813
So there's kind of a couple
things that happen here.
350
00:17:25,823 --> 00:17:29,423
There's the material revolution
where we move from esparto to jute.
351
00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:33,039
There's a manufacturing revolution
where these move from home workshops
352
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:34,639
into more of a factory setting.
353
00:17:34,739 --> 00:17:37,439
And then there's kind of
this cultural revolution.
354
00:17:37,539 --> 00:17:42,059
But basically as great as esparto
is It's still a little bit stiff.
355
00:17:42,179 --> 00:17:43,739
It's hard to harvest.
356
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:48,329
It's very labor-intensive to prepare,
and there's variables in the quality
357
00:17:48,339 --> 00:17:52,079
depending on the rainfall of the
year and the growing conditions.
358
00:17:52,179 --> 00:17:55,929
There's a lot of demand by the 1800s,
and there's kind of this bottleneck in
359
00:17:55,929 --> 00:17:57,959
the process being caused by esparto.
360
00:17:57,959 --> 00:18:01,249
Then we get the British Empire,
beginning in the 19th century, we
361
00:18:01,249 --> 00:18:05,149
have all of this jute from Bengal,
which is modern-day Bangladesh and
362
00:18:05,159 --> 00:18:07,269
India, that's arriving in Europe.
363
00:18:07,379 --> 00:18:11,299
basically Britain had established this
huge colonial trade network, and by the
364
00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:16,029
mid-1800s, raw jute was being shipped
in huge quantities back to Europe.
365
00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:19,869
In Dundee, Scotland in particular was
getting a lot of jute to the point where
366
00:18:19,869 --> 00:18:22,758
it became known as Jutopolis in Europe.
367
00:18:25,158 --> 00:18:25,378
And
368
00:18:25,558 --> 00:18:25,988
Yoana: funny
369
00:18:26,018 --> 00:18:29,468
Chandler: That's where they would do
the processing of this jute into yarn
370
00:18:29,478 --> 00:18:32,738
and rope that would then be exported
across the continent to Spain and
371
00:18:32,738 --> 00:18:34,588
France, where the espadrille makers are.
372
00:18:34,688 --> 00:18:36,658
jute kind of gave a few advantages.
373
00:18:36,678 --> 00:18:37,798
It was cheaper.
374
00:18:37,898 --> 00:18:41,278
Its fibers were longer and more
uniform, which made them easier
375
00:18:41,278 --> 00:18:45,598
to spin into consistent cord, it
produced a softer, more flexible sole.
376
00:18:45,648 --> 00:18:50,318
It wasn't like immediately overnight
jute's replacing esparto, but by the late
377
00:18:50,318 --> 00:18:55,498
19th century it had pretty much become the
preferred material for many manufacturers.
378
00:18:55,608 --> 00:18:58,945
Yoana: Well, on that point, this
jute is coming into Britain, but
379
00:18:58,955 --> 00:19:03,965
you're still sending it to espadrille
makers in Spain to make this.
380
00:19:03,975 --> 00:19:09,245
So, to me, It feels almost like
the shoe in itself is evolving, but
381
00:19:09,245 --> 00:19:12,755
it is still tied to that heritage
because it's not like Britain starts
382
00:19:12,775 --> 00:19:15,115
producing espadrilles made from jute.
383
00:19:15,125 --> 00:19:18,935
you are still looking at Spain
as the home of where these are.
384
00:19:18,985 --> 00:19:19,255
Chandler: Yeah.
385
00:19:19,275 --> 00:19:23,145
So it's Spain and France, and I
wouldn't say… mean, it's kind
386
00:19:23,145 --> 00:19:26,855
of the same story that's told with
globalization across different industries
387
00:19:26,905 --> 00:19:28,255
with lots of different products.
388
00:19:28,305 --> 00:19:31,405
for these people that are making
these, this is their livelihood, so
389
00:19:31,405 --> 00:19:35,555
they're not too worried about, oh,
is this true to the Spanish heritage?
390
00:19:35,605 --> 00:19:37,435
They're working to meet demand
391
00:19:37,535 --> 00:19:37,835
Yoana: Yep
392
00:19:37,935 --> 00:19:40,755
Chandler: trying to be as efficient
as possible while doing so.
393
00:19:40,785 --> 00:19:44,405
And then jute was just better
suited to what they were making.
394
00:19:44,555 --> 00:19:47,265
so it's kind of like once that
material becomes available,
395
00:19:47,365 --> 00:19:48,585
why wouldn't you use it?
396
00:19:48,695 --> 00:19:51,755
because the fibers are longer, so
you're not gonna get as much fraying.
397
00:19:51,825 --> 00:19:57,015
it is interesting that, these shoes that
are rooted in Mediterranean grasses are
398
00:19:57,015 --> 00:20:01,395
now dependent on fibers that are grown
thousands of miles away in South Asia.
399
00:20:01,495 --> 00:20:04,615
It's just such a microcosm
of globalization.
400
00:20:04,735 --> 00:20:06,355
but that's the state of
the world at that point.
401
00:20:06,415 --> 00:20:08,615
A huge part of British culture is tea.
402
00:20:08,625 --> 00:20:10,165
That tea doesn't come from Britain.
403
00:20:10,265 --> 00:20:13,475
Just kind of the result
of colonization and trade.
404
00:20:13,535 --> 00:20:15,865
I feel like we need to do a montage
of all the times that I've said
405
00:20:15,865 --> 00:20:19,145
Industrial Revolution because it's
practically in every episode at this
406
00:20:19,145 --> 00:20:20,935
point, but I'm gonna say it again.
407
00:20:20,965 --> 00:20:25,565
We get to the Industrial Revolution
the process becomes mechanized So, you
408
00:20:25,565 --> 00:20:29,055
know, we've now had that introduction
of jute and there are a couple steps
409
00:20:29,075 --> 00:20:32,285
in the espadrille process that are
super repetitive and those are the ones
410
00:20:32,285 --> 00:20:34,225
that are mechanized the most quickly.
411
00:20:34,235 --> 00:20:35,195
So those include
412
00:20:35,367 --> 00:20:39,027
spinning the fiber into cord, braiding
and pressing the soles, and then
413
00:20:39,027 --> 00:20:41,644
cutting canvas to standardized patterns.
414
00:20:41,744 --> 00:20:45,704
the actual attachment of the sole
to the shoe, however, is still done
415
00:20:45,704 --> 00:20:49,074
by hand, that stitching, has kind of
continued into the modern tradition
416
00:20:49,074 --> 00:20:50,264
which I think is interesting.
417
00:20:50,314 --> 00:20:54,074
the way that this is being done
though, it's not one giant factory
418
00:20:54,074 --> 00:20:55,624
that's doing all the production.
419
00:20:55,674 --> 00:20:58,364
It's towns that are
specialized in espadrilles.
420
00:20:58,464 --> 00:21:00,614
There's one in the French Basque Country.
421
00:21:00,674 --> 00:21:03,404
My French pronunciation's
really brutal, so bear with me.
422
00:21:03,404 --> 00:21:08,834
But Mauléon-Licharre, which is a small
town that became the world's largest
423
00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:10,764
center of espadrille production.
424
00:21:10,864 --> 00:21:13,684
So by the late 19th century,
there's hundreds of workshops
425
00:21:13,684 --> 00:21:17,524
there, and production was on an
industrialized scale, with thousands
426
00:21:17,524 --> 00:21:19,454
of families depending on that trade.
427
00:21:19,544 --> 00:21:22,594
but many families were still
working from home on these,
428
00:21:22,594 --> 00:21:26,250
sewing the uppers that would be
assembled in centralized workshops.
429
00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:30,830
So it's kind of this hybrid model of
blended factory production and traditional
430
00:21:30,850 --> 00:21:35,460
cottage labor, with women in particular
continuing to do that sewing well into
431
00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:38,364
the 20th century from within their homes.
432
00:21:38,554 --> 00:21:41,751
you also see this Industrial
production expanding in Spain,
433
00:21:41,801 --> 00:21:45,691
in Catalonia, La Rioja, Aragon,
and Valencia regions as well.
434
00:21:45,791 --> 00:21:46,091
Yoana: Yeah.
435
00:21:46,141 --> 00:21:50,631
you might be touching on this, but if
you are, I apologize for jumping ahead.
436
00:21:50,631 --> 00:21:52,431
If not, we'll have a
conversation about it.
437
00:21:52,531 --> 00:21:56,421
as I was looking into, some of these
brands, Diego's is one of them,
438
00:21:56,521 --> 00:21:57,021
Chandler: Mm-hmm
439
00:21:57,126 --> 00:22:00,596
Yoana: Diego's does this kind of
profile in the story about their brand.
440
00:22:00,606 --> 00:22:03,946
they mention the villages in Spain
and France that these come from,
441
00:22:03,946 --> 00:22:07,626
and, they'll do a profile on even,
uh, y- like, Jose Luis is the rope
442
00:22:07,626 --> 00:22:09,286
maker in one of these villages,
443
00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:13,356
there's portraits of everybody literally
involved in every piece of the process,
444
00:22:13,406 --> 00:22:16,996
It just reminded me of, like, as you were
talking about who are the people actually
445
00:22:16,996 --> 00:22:20,626
making these, there are still really
specialized villages that do this, and,
446
00:22:20,726 --> 00:22:24,316
it's a c- I think some brands are still
trying to bring that to life in a way
447
00:22:24,416 --> 00:22:27,136
Chandler: Yeah, so I was literally
just about to say this is kind of
448
00:22:27,146 --> 00:22:31,076
the era that you'll see some of these
modern-day espadrille brands reference.
449
00:22:31,086 --> 00:22:38,076
There's one called Castañer, which traces
its family's craft lineage to 1776.
450
00:22:38,126 --> 00:22:42,816
the modern company wasn't formed until
1927, but is a tradition that's being
451
00:22:42,816 --> 00:22:47,036
passed from families, and you'll see a
lot of these modern-day brands trying to
452
00:22:47,036 --> 00:22:48,936
ground themselves within that tradition.
453
00:22:49,036 --> 00:22:53,196
Only a few of them actually
can, which is interesting.
454
00:22:53,296 --> 00:22:56,376
I don't blame any of them
for trying to kind of, you
455
00:22:56,376 --> 00:22:57,716
know, get a piece of that pie.
456
00:22:57,756 --> 00:22:58,376
I get it.
457
00:22:58,476 --> 00:23:02,406
And I do think there's some… This is
something that their family was doing.
458
00:23:02,466 --> 00:23:06,782
Castañer is one of the oldest and
most well-known, but we've seen
459
00:23:06,782 --> 00:23:08,342
all these changes in production.
460
00:23:08,392 --> 00:23:11,272
there's a lot of demand for them,
but who's actually wearing these?
461
00:23:11,292 --> 00:23:15,442
Because the peasants of the
medieval times, a lot's happened
462
00:23:15,522 --> 00:23:17,002
now that we're in the 19th century.
463
00:23:17,012 --> 00:23:18,902
So it's still the working class.
464
00:23:18,942 --> 00:23:20,462
It's still farmers.
465
00:23:20,462 --> 00:23:25,062
It's still fishermen, laborers, miners,
factory workers, rural families.
466
00:23:25,072 --> 00:23:28,412
So we now have factory workers,
but the shoe that they're
467
00:23:28,412 --> 00:23:29,352
wearing is an espadrille.
468
00:23:29,452 --> 00:23:30,542
so that has not changed.
469
00:23:30,542 --> 00:23:34,232
It's still the same kind of
demographic in terms of economics
470
00:23:34,262 --> 00:23:35,992
as it was way back when.
471
00:23:36,092 --> 00:23:39,099
But that changes thanks to some
people I think you might be
472
00:23:39,099 --> 00:23:43,209
familiar with, some of the most
famous artists of the 20th century.
473
00:23:43,309 --> 00:23:47,499
wealthy people were largely ignoring
espadrilles, but artists start
474
00:23:47,499 --> 00:23:52,659
embracing them because kind of this
connection to the local culture, and
475
00:23:52,659 --> 00:23:58,059
then they're super authentic to Spain,
to France, and they tie these artists
476
00:23:58,079 --> 00:24:02,989
into their local traditions and then
also signal creative independence.
477
00:24:02,999 --> 00:24:05,279
Like, they're not trying
to fit in with the wealthy.
478
00:24:05,379 --> 00:24:07,499
Pablo Picasso's the most famous example.
479
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,449
So he famously wore traditional Catalan
espadrilles throughout a lot of his life.
480
00:24:12,499 --> 00:24:15,799
Salvador Dali also wore
these, particularly when he
481
00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:17,509
was in his native Catalonia.
482
00:24:17,589 --> 00:24:20,499
Dali had like a very
flamboyant public persona.
483
00:24:20,679 --> 00:24:25,669
His fashion was not a joke he still
was rocking these espadrilles a
484
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:28,389
lot, which again, at this time
they were not seen as fashionable.
485
00:24:28,409 --> 00:24:30,199
But like, he was out there wearing them.
486
00:24:30,299 --> 00:24:34,719
one interesting tidbit is both Picasso
and Dali bought their shoes from this
487
00:24:34,769 --> 00:24:37,092
store called La Manual Alpargatera.
488
00:24:37,092 --> 00:24:41,922
that was founded in 1940 in Barcelona,
and it's arguably the world's most
489
00:24:41,922 --> 00:24:43,892
famous traditional espadrille shop.
490
00:24:43,992 --> 00:24:48,912
So if you want a pair of the shoes that
Picasso was buying, they're still around.
491
00:24:49,012 --> 00:24:51,822
Yoana: If you're listening to
this, going to Barcelona, make
492
00:24:51,822 --> 00:24:53,472
a little stop at the store.
493
00:24:53,572 --> 00:24:57,522
wait, one thing that this reminds
me of, it's a totally different time
494
00:24:57,522 --> 00:25:00,712
period, but when we talked about the
French Revolution and the Enlightenment
495
00:25:00,822 --> 00:25:04,182
and kind of that renunciation on
wearing things that are flashy.
496
00:25:04,225 --> 00:25:07,395
It's interesting that like Pablo Picasso
and Dali are wearing this and they're of a
497
00:25:07,395 --> 00:25:12,075
similar, you know, like creative persona,
and they're wearing the espadrille, which
498
00:25:12,075 --> 00:25:13,695
is something the wealthy didn't pick up.
499
00:25:13,795 --> 00:25:17,085
Chandler: it does seem like they
were kind of a point of pride.
500
00:25:17,085 --> 00:25:19,995
somebody like Picasso, maybe he was
opting for them because he had a lot
501
00:25:19,995 --> 00:25:24,345
of pride for where he came from and
a love for Spain, and same for Dali.
502
00:25:24,395 --> 00:25:27,095
Picasso in particular was,
visually synonymous with
503
00:25:27,095 --> 00:25:28,605
espadrilles in the public's eye.
504
00:25:28,615 --> 00:25:30,545
Like, that man was wearing these things.
505
00:25:30,645 --> 00:25:35,548
but then after World War I, leisure
travel kind of expands because
506
00:25:35,648 --> 00:25:38,348
paid vacations start becoming
more common in parts of Europe.
507
00:25:38,368 --> 00:25:42,368
That, wasn't a thing prior to World
War I. In 1936, France's government
508
00:25:42,398 --> 00:25:47,818
introduced two weeks of paid vacation
to workers, so now middle-class French
509
00:25:47,818 --> 00:25:50,918
citizens are coming to the Mediterranean,
some of them for the first time.
510
00:25:50,918 --> 00:25:52,008
They've never been to the coast.
511
00:25:52,058 --> 00:25:55,498
Seaside holidays in particular
started becoming fashionable.
512
00:25:55,558 --> 00:26:00,298
So all of a sudden, with these cultural
changes, everybody needs lightweight,
513
00:26:00,308 --> 00:26:05,138
local footwear that is suited to the
climate, and so they get espadrilles.
514
00:26:05,638 --> 00:26:06,038
Yoana: Hmm
515
00:26:06,178 --> 00:26:08,918
Chandler: by the late 1930s,
the espadrille was starting
516
00:26:08,918 --> 00:26:10,348
to get this second identity.
517
00:26:10,348 --> 00:26:13,948
It's still a work shoe, but
it's also a souvenir of your
518
00:26:13,948 --> 00:26:15,538
time spent in Spain or France.
519
00:26:15,568 --> 00:26:20,908
then we get World War II, so that is a
little pause in the vacationing occurring.
520
00:26:20,908 --> 00:26:24,908
after that, we kind of have another
turning point where the Mediterranean
521
00:26:24,908 --> 00:26:26,818
basically becomes this dream vacation.
522
00:26:26,868 --> 00:26:28,188
Europe's being rebuilt.
523
00:26:28,188 --> 00:26:32,148
A lot of people, where they live
unfortunately has damages from the war.
524
00:26:32,168 --> 00:26:35,858
They're trying to get away, a
little escapism, and so they all
525
00:26:35,858 --> 00:26:37,328
go to the Mediterranean to do that.
526
00:26:37,358 --> 00:26:41,018
And two big things are also happening
that are contributing a lot to
527
00:26:41,018 --> 00:26:45,238
travel, which is commercial aviation
and the accessibility of cars.
528
00:26:45,338 --> 00:26:50,338
And the regions that basically become
in style at the time are the French
529
00:26:50,338 --> 00:26:54,583
Riviera, Costa Brava, the Balearic
Islands, and the Italian Riviera.
530
00:26:54,863 --> 00:26:55,893
They're international playgrounds.
531
00:26:55,933 --> 00:26:58,353
You have American tourists,
you have European ones.
532
00:26:58,453 --> 00:27:01,153
in all these places, what
are the locals wearing?
533
00:27:01,253 --> 00:27:02,003
Espadrilles.
534
00:27:02,103 --> 00:27:05,297
all the tourists are like, "I need to get
some of those," especially now that the
535
00:27:05,297 --> 00:27:06,733
artists have already been wearing them.
536
00:27:06,743 --> 00:27:09,830
The associations have already
started to shift into Oh, these are
537
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:13,900
like a cool local shoe." It's not
just seen as a working class thing.
538
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,990
And then we get to Hollywood in the '40s.
539
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,603
Hollywood starts making movies
using the Riviera as a backdrop.
540
00:27:20,653 --> 00:27:24,173
so there's films that are shot in
the Riviera or inspired by it that
541
00:27:24,173 --> 00:27:30,003
kind of present this new ideal of
elegance as relaxed luxury rather
542
00:27:30,003 --> 00:27:32,533
than formal evening wear gowns.
543
00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:35,883
Hollywood really makes that transition,
and the espadrille kind of becomes
544
00:27:35,883 --> 00:27:37,933
shorthand for relaxed luxury.
545
00:27:37,943 --> 00:27:42,413
So we're talking Grace Kelly,
Audrey Hepburn, Brigitte Bardot.
546
00:27:42,513 --> 00:27:45,403
All of these people are wearing
these espadrilles both on and
547
00:27:45,413 --> 00:27:46,833
off the sets of their movies.
548
00:27:46,833 --> 00:27:51,547
Of course, JFK, our fashionable king,
was on the front end of the trend,
549
00:27:51,607 --> 00:27:56,187
so he was being photographed in them
early as 1938 alongside his sisters.
550
00:27:56,237 --> 00:27:57,447
men were wearing these too.
551
00:27:57,467 --> 00:28:01,137
So we have John Wayne's wearing them
in Mexico, where he owned a resort.
552
00:28:01,237 --> 00:28:04,247
Ernest Hemingway's wearing them,
which I thought was interesting.
553
00:28:04,257 --> 00:28:06,887
Humphrey Bogart, a huge Hollywood actor.
554
00:28:06,907 --> 00:28:10,067
So this is definitely a
unisex thing, in Hollywood.
555
00:28:10,237 --> 00:28:12,867
But there are a couple movies
in particular I wanna point out.
556
00:28:12,867 --> 00:28:18,327
So we have Key Largo from 1948 with
Lauren Bacall, and she's kind of resort
557
00:28:18,327 --> 00:28:20,487
dressing, which includes espadrilles.
558
00:28:20,587 --> 00:28:24,707
To Catch a Thief, 1955,
Grace Kelly looks insane.
559
00:28:24,757 --> 00:28:27,457
the costume designer was
a woman named Edith Head.
560
00:28:27,517 --> 00:28:31,427
And she received one of her
35 Oscar nominations for Best
561
00:28:31,427 --> 00:28:33,117
Costume Design for that movie.
562
00:28:33,147 --> 00:28:35,327
So clearly the espadrilles were working.
563
00:28:35,427 --> 00:28:39,447
then And God Created Woman
in '56 was Brigitte Bardot.
564
00:28:39,497 --> 00:28:44,157
basically by 1960, the espadrille
had effectively changed categories.
565
00:28:44,167 --> 00:28:47,147
So it wasn't just seen as a
working class shoe, but rather the
566
00:28:47,147 --> 00:28:48,797
shoe you packed for a vacation.
567
00:28:48,847 --> 00:28:52,907
we see Paris, London, New York, the
department stores are selling espadrilles
568
00:28:52,907 --> 00:28:54,247
specifically as summer footwear.
569
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,500
And then manufacturers are seeing this
demand from tourism, and they respond
570
00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:04,500
by introducing brighter canvas colors,
printed fabrics, rubber outsoles, kind
571
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,130
of more fashionable silhouettes because
the demand is there from tourists.
572
00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:10,630
Yoana: I just think, I mean, this
is like a little bit of a silly
573
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:15,340
comment, but I'm thinking about, these
photos of Pablo Picasso, JFK, Grace
574
00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:17,490
Kelly, and they're like so iconic.
575
00:29:17,490 --> 00:29:20,830
but if you think about it today, I
feel like if you see an influencer
576
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:25,290
and they go to, a boutique in
Italy that maybe has an online
577
00:29:25,290 --> 00:29:27,870
storefront, that's like shop my link.
578
00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:31,420
Like everything is kinda dispersed by
all of these stories that you're seeing,
579
00:29:31,420 --> 00:29:36,100
but the influence here is so natural in
the course of its time how it happened.
580
00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:39,250
like no one's getting a brand
deal to wear espadrilles.
581
00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:42,030
Like you are not getting
paid to put this shoe on you.
582
00:29:42,130 --> 00:29:44,920
So I think it's just interesting
that there wasn't actually
583
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,310
any financial incentive or
percentage take for styling these.
584
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:50,820
It was just truly inspiring in a way.
585
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,760
Chandler: Yeah, I don't
think it's an accident.
586
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,030
So I think they become
popular for a few reasons.
587
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,330
First of all, World War II showed
the dark side of industrialization.
588
00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:06,490
Basically showed we mechanized, this is
what can happen from that process, and I
589
00:30:06,530 --> 00:30:11,393
think a lot of people wanted that return,
that reversion back to simplicity, and
590
00:30:11,393 --> 00:30:13,933
so espadrilles kind of reflected that.
591
00:30:13,963 --> 00:30:18,103
I think that's also a pattern that we see
through fashion history with the elite.
592
00:30:18,203 --> 00:30:23,459
Denim's the same, work wear is the same,
where a practical object kind of becomes
593
00:30:23,499 --> 00:30:25,829
aspirational through this lens of leisure.
594
00:30:25,829 --> 00:30:30,129
I think it's these values that people
are like, " We've moved so far from, we
595
00:30:30,129 --> 00:30:34,077
need it back." The espadrille process
was impacted by industrialization,
596
00:30:34,087 --> 00:30:37,777
but it doesn't have that association,
which I think is what made it appeal to
597
00:30:37,777 --> 00:30:41,857
people But yeah, that kinda gets us to
them being solidified in the zeitgeist
598
00:30:41,857 --> 00:30:45,758
as, this beloved shoe for tourists.
599
00:30:45,858 --> 00:30:50,018
there's some pretty cool people wearing
them too, like Coco Chanel, which I feel
600
00:30:50,018 --> 00:30:53,058
like kinda gets us to the modern era.
601
00:30:53,088 --> 00:30:54,368
So maybe I'll let you take over
602
00:30:54,468 --> 00:30:55,861
Yoana: I love the word zeitgeist.
603
00:30:55,911 --> 00:30:56,821
It's such a fun one.
604
00:30:56,821 --> 00:31:01,731
the one sentence that I, I kinda go back
to when we think about espadrilles is
605
00:31:01,731 --> 00:31:06,961
really like it's this rare shoe in a way
that it holds like democracy in the way
606
00:31:06,961 --> 00:31:08,741
that we talk about gender neutrality.
607
00:31:08,791 --> 00:31:12,161
it does have a luxury element now, and
then there's almost a regional identity
608
00:31:12,161 --> 00:31:17,641
at the same time that exists alongside it,
and I think they're all relevant still.
609
00:31:17,681 --> 00:31:21,341
And like the five lenses that I wanna
flip through is, you know, like how they
610
00:31:21,341 --> 00:31:25,271
actually entered that fashion realm that
you just alluded to with Coco Chanel,
611
00:31:25,321 --> 00:31:29,541
how they became democratic, and quite
candidly still are, how Spain actually
612
00:31:29,541 --> 00:31:34,251
keeps reinventing on them, how these
luxury houses use them as a house code
613
00:31:34,311 --> 00:31:39,601
in a way, and then how some brands like
Morjas use profiles of individuals to
614
00:31:39,601 --> 00:31:43,681
really show that the silhouette still
works, while it does continue to signal
615
00:31:43,681 --> 00:31:46,511
that ease, taste, without trying too hard.
616
00:31:46,541 --> 00:31:51,161
So maybe I'll start us off with, YSL
and Castañer, coming back to them.
617
00:31:51,261 --> 00:31:51,661
Chandler: Yeah
618
00:31:51,761 --> 00:31:54,751
Yoana: if I could… I'm gonna borrow
your analogy of painting the picture.
619
00:31:54,761 --> 00:31:59,351
So you have Yves Saint Laurent and
Castañer, and the story of how they come
620
00:31:59,351 --> 00:32:01,201
together is actually really interesting.
621
00:32:01,331 --> 00:32:07,151
Castañer, to your point earlier, has this
demographic of individuals who, were using
622
00:32:07,151 --> 00:32:08,961
these shoes for a functional purpose.
623
00:32:09,011 --> 00:32:11,921
Castañer's not a brand that was trying
to make a luxury fashion statement.
624
00:32:11,921 --> 00:32:13,221
It's an artisan business.
625
00:32:13,251 --> 00:32:14,901
It's rooted in this traditional market.
626
00:32:14,901 --> 00:32:17,281
But that market starts to
shrink over time, right?
627
00:32:17,281 --> 00:32:21,121
Like rural Spaniards leaving the
countryside, going to the city, that
628
00:32:21,191 --> 00:32:23,061
consumer base is like disappearing.
629
00:32:23,061 --> 00:32:27,641
And so the practical role of the
espadrille The demand for it isn't
630
00:32:27,641 --> 00:32:29,381
there as much as it used to be.
631
00:32:29,481 --> 00:32:33,521
And, YSL is coming into the picture,
and I think honestly just does what a
632
00:32:33,521 --> 00:32:38,871
designer does, is looking into history
and inspiration to kind of translate
633
00:32:38,871 --> 00:32:42,691
something that is maybe old or hasn't
been done before into something new.
634
00:32:42,761 --> 00:32:48,581
YSL basically is searching for a way to
make a heeled high fashion version of this
635
00:32:48,681 --> 00:32:51,441
traditional espadrille, of a rope sandal.
636
00:32:51,541 --> 00:32:55,221
And a lot of people are turning
him down, like saying it's not
637
00:32:55,221 --> 00:32:58,281
possible, the jute wasn't supposed
to hold that kind of wedge.
638
00:32:58,341 --> 00:32:59,991
it's like we cannot make it happen.
639
00:33:00,091 --> 00:33:05,061
But the Castañer family is at this
intersection of, necessity almost to
640
00:33:05,061 --> 00:33:08,971
need to innovate because they are seeing
a decrease in their demand, and so
641
00:33:09,071 --> 00:33:12,301
They met YSL at the Paris Trade Fair.
642
00:33:12,501 --> 00:33:14,001
He pitches the wedge.
643
00:33:14,101 --> 00:33:18,951
They kinda take it and run, create
a prototype in 10 days, and, you see
644
00:33:18,951 --> 00:33:22,281
the shoe, it's called the Campesina,
and it's basically the world's
645
00:33:22,291 --> 00:33:25,861
first luxury wedge espadrille.
646
00:33:25,979 --> 00:33:31,161
And that's, in a way, how the espadrille
enters fashion versus practicality
647
00:33:31,261 --> 00:33:33,471
in a more, I think, cemented way.
648
00:33:33,571 --> 00:33:38,961
It's so interesting that, the shoe becomes
a bridge between this artisan production
649
00:33:38,961 --> 00:33:42,911
and a luxury fashion house trying to
evolve, like declining rural economy, a
650
00:33:42,911 --> 00:33:47,951
new fashion consumer trying to almost meet
the demand of this consumer that you're
651
00:33:47,951 --> 00:33:53,611
just speaking to that wants something
that feels lighter and elegant but easy,
652
00:33:53,691 --> 00:33:59,341
and I think YSL was just inspired by what
doesn't exist in this landscape that could
653
00:33:59,481 --> 00:34:02,251
fill that demand, and it was a wedge.
654
00:34:02,321 --> 00:34:02,801
Chandler: Yeah.
655
00:34:02,901 --> 00:34:07,171
So it was the original Yves Saint
Laurent who went to him, or went
656
00:34:07,301 --> 00:34:07,551
Yoana: Yeah.
657
00:34:07,651 --> 00:34:08,371
Chandler: Okay, cool
658
00:34:08,490 --> 00:34:08,930
Yoana: Yeah.
659
00:34:09,130 --> 00:34:12,450
my understanding is that Yves Saint
Laurent didn't just go to Castañer.
660
00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:15,530
I think he just pitched this
idea to a lot of people.
661
00:34:15,630 --> 00:34:15,920
Chandler: Hmm
662
00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:19,256
Yoana: or a lot of manufacturers
I should say, weren't willing
663
00:34:19,256 --> 00:34:20,726
to, to take that risk.
664
00:34:20,772 --> 00:34:21,232
Chandler: Yeah
665
00:34:21,332 --> 00:34:26,822
Yoana: The sandal is like $1,000 now, and
you could almost look at it as a little
666
00:34:26,822 --> 00:34:30,632
bit frustrating that luxury is taking
this shoe that was at an affordable
667
00:34:30,632 --> 00:34:32,232
price point and premiumizing it.
668
00:34:32,332 --> 00:34:37,022
But it is also inspiring, 'cause this
collaboration of a luxury brand and a
669
00:34:37,022 --> 00:34:41,442
family-owned company that can actually
back the fact that they have been doing
670
00:34:41,442 --> 00:34:47,182
this for a long time, is like a moment of
reframing, how Spain itself is changing
671
00:34:47,192 --> 00:34:48,902
and like staying on top of that narrative.
672
00:34:48,952 --> 00:34:50,332
It's an interesting collaboration.
673
00:34:50,432 --> 00:34:51,562
Like you don't see that a lot
674
00:34:51,662 --> 00:34:52,132
Chandler: Yeah.
675
00:34:52,212 --> 00:34:58,082
I think I would find it frustrating if
walking around in an espadrille made by
676
00:34:58,082 --> 00:35:03,272
a little village in Spain, people assumed
you were wearing a dupe of a luxury good.
677
00:35:03,372 --> 00:35:04,992
But I don't think that's the case.
678
00:35:05,092 --> 00:35:10,992
I don't think that luxury having adopted
these has drawn away from their original
679
00:35:11,092 --> 00:35:13,222
meaning and the original version.
680
00:35:13,332 --> 00:35:13,822
Yoana: Mm-hmm.
681
00:35:13,922 --> 00:35:15,092
That's an interesting point.
682
00:35:15,192 --> 00:35:17,585
I feel like dupes exist
to so many extents.
683
00:35:17,775 --> 00:35:20,875
But I don't think you could
call an espadrille dupe.
684
00:35:20,885 --> 00:35:24,855
Even if I saw a dupe, I don't think I
would like clock it as, "Oh, this is a
685
00:35:24,955 --> 00:35:30,262
YSL or a Chanel dupe." Like, maybe you
would think the logo of Chanel looks
686
00:35:30,362 --> 00:35:34,605
like a dupe on the espadrille, but you
don't see the actual espadrille as a dupe
687
00:35:34,705 --> 00:35:35,545
Chandler: No, exactly.
688
00:35:35,575 --> 00:35:38,375
Like I'm sure people make dupes
dupes of Chanel espadrilles,
689
00:35:38,573 --> 00:35:38,953
Yoana: Yeah.
690
00:35:39,058 --> 00:35:43,088
Chandler: But a non-branded espadrille
is not a dupe of a Chanel espadrille.
691
00:35:43,188 --> 00:35:44,128
It's just an espadrille.
692
00:35:44,228 --> 00:35:47,858
so I think it's different than
some other products in that way.
693
00:35:47,968 --> 00:35:51,328
Like there are bag silhouettes
that you know if you see that
694
00:35:51,328 --> 00:35:54,678
silhouette and it's not from the
original brand, that is a dupe.
695
00:35:54,758 --> 00:35:56,358
But an espadrille's not that.
696
00:35:56,408 --> 00:35:56,658
Yoana: Yeah.
697
00:35:56,758 --> 00:35:59,298
It wouldn't be like duping
a Celine, like Phantom,
698
00:35:59,348 --> 00:35:59,868
Chandler: Right.
699
00:35:59,968 --> 00:36:01,498
Yoana: That's, yeah, that's a good point.
700
00:36:01,598 --> 00:36:05,618
Chandler: did you see anything about
him being inspired by Hollywood?
701
00:36:05,738 --> 00:36:07,178
YSL when you were doing the research?
702
00:36:07,278 --> 00:36:07,688
I'm curious
703
00:36:07,788 --> 00:36:08,678
Yoana: No, did you?
704
00:36:08,778 --> 00:36:13,228
Chandler: No, I'm surprised that nobody
wrote about that since it was after they
705
00:36:13,228 --> 00:36:15,058
had been worn in so many famous movies
706
00:36:15,158 --> 00:36:18,358
Yoana: I bet there's definitely
an inspiration from Hollywood, but
707
00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:21,570
Chandler: I don't think they would've
caught his eye in the same way had
708
00:36:21,570 --> 00:36:25,920
they not already been integrated
into the American market in that way.
709
00:36:26,020 --> 00:36:29,070
Or not even just American, but
I think, more wealthy Europeans
710
00:36:29,170 --> 00:36:30,610
Yoana: Cause YSL is, I
711
00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:31,410
Chandler: It's French.
712
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:35,060
But yeah, I don't know how you would
make a, Like, if it was still just seen
713
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:38,470
as a workman's shoe, I think you'd be
hard-pressed to make something like
714
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:41,880
that all of a sudden aspirational,
except that it had already been
715
00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:43,580
filtered through Hollywood's lens
716
00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:45,550
Yoana: so that was in 1970.
717
00:36:45,650 --> 00:36:49,280
And so a lot of, the folks that
you talked about, like Coco Chanel,
718
00:36:49,683 --> 00:36:52,159
JFK, a lot of that came earlier,
719
00:36:52,342 --> 00:36:54,072
Chandler: So first came Picasso, which is
720
00:36:54,402 --> 00:36:55,772
30s, 40s.
721
00:36:55,992 --> 00:36:58,129
Then came Hollywood, which is 50s.
722
00:36:58,229 --> 00:37:01,849
then, like, Diane Keaton's wearing them in
a movie in the '70s, which is interesting.
723
00:37:01,849 --> 00:37:05,949
so I wonder if part of why he realized
there was potential there is because
724
00:37:06,049 --> 00:37:09,919
Hollywood had already kind of changed
the popular understanding of them
725
00:37:10,019 --> 00:37:10,349
Yoana: Yeah.
726
00:37:10,449 --> 00:37:13,269
I mean, to your point on, like, Picasso
starting doing this in the '30s, if
727
00:37:13,269 --> 00:37:17,319
there was a 40-year period where people
were wearing these more and more, there
728
00:37:17,319 --> 00:37:21,309
had to have been some influence by just
noticing that people were wearing them
729
00:37:21,309 --> 00:37:22,989
and there wasn't any innovation on them.
730
00:37:23,019 --> 00:37:23,769
So Yeah.
731
00:37:23,869 --> 00:37:24,249
okay.
732
00:37:24,349 --> 00:37:27,369
Well, I think that also kinda takes
us to, I guess, like they were
733
00:37:27,369 --> 00:37:29,059
popular for a really long time.
734
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:31,719
and I think the reason is there
was this article that called it the
735
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,439
democratic shoe, which I really liked.
736
00:37:33,549 --> 00:37:37,239
and, you know, like, there's such a
huge range of wearers with these, like
737
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,359
presidents, artists, farmers, movie stars.
738
00:37:40,379 --> 00:37:43,349
Like, ordinary people are
just sharing this silhouette
739
00:37:43,359 --> 00:37:45,059
in, a lot of different ways.
740
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:49,509
I found a really interesting article on
Substack from, the publication's called
741
00:37:49,509 --> 00:37:54,319
The B List, and it kinda compared the
espadrille to the feeling of how the
742
00:37:54,319 --> 00:37:59,309
Adidas Samba has, taken over the consumer
in today's world, and it made a lot of
743
00:37:59,309 --> 00:38:03,469
sense to me ' cause it's not… they're
not a rarefied object in a way that a
744
00:38:03,469 --> 00:38:08,229
luxury shoe is, and I also don't think
an Adidas Samba is, that, rarefied,
745
00:38:08,259 --> 00:38:12,609
but it's pretty recognizable, and it's
broadly wearable, whoever you are.
746
00:38:12,659 --> 00:38:17,629
it's almost, the way that an Adidas Samba
today can be paired, if you wanna wear
747
00:38:17,629 --> 00:38:20,679
it with a tighter jean, maybe a little
bit more buttoned up, you can wear it
748
00:38:20,689 --> 00:38:22,249
in, a San Francisco office building.
749
00:38:22,249 --> 00:38:23,539
You can wear it really casually.
750
00:38:23,539 --> 00:38:26,449
there's a lot of people that even
express themselves differently with
751
00:38:26,449 --> 00:38:30,939
an Adidas Samba based on the pattern,
the color, and that, allows your
752
00:38:31,069 --> 00:38:32,789
personality almost to come out.
753
00:38:32,889 --> 00:38:36,829
And so similar to how I think the
Adidas Samba today doesn't really read
754
00:38:36,829 --> 00:38:39,259
as super feminine, super masculine.
755
00:38:39,269 --> 00:38:41,359
there's no rigid line there.
756
00:38:41,399 --> 00:38:45,329
I think the espadrille kinda has
that same shared language of not
757
00:38:45,329 --> 00:38:49,969
really, like, oriented towards a
certain gender in dressing, but it's
758
00:38:49,969 --> 00:38:53,489
really just this feeling of, like,
intentional leisure, to your point.
759
00:38:53,629 --> 00:38:54,329
Chandler: No I love that.
760
00:38:54,379 --> 00:38:57,779
the Samba I think it's interesting
'cause I don't see… I'll sometimes
761
00:38:57,779 --> 00:39:00,719
see a really fashionable older
woman in the US wearing them.
762
00:39:00,819 --> 00:39:01,229
Yoana: Mm-hmm.
763
00:39:01,268 --> 00:39:05,888
Chandler: I do feel like the demographic
tends to be younger overall in the States.
764
00:39:05,908 --> 00:39:09,578
But if you're in Europe, older people
are wearing those across the board.
765
00:39:09,688 --> 00:39:14,438
and so it's not like an age-related thing,
and I think espadrilles is similar in that
766
00:39:14,448 --> 00:39:18,538
where it's like anybody can wear them,
any gender, any age, and that's rare.
767
00:39:18,548 --> 00:39:22,288
you can pick whichever one is
communicating what you want, you
768
00:39:22,288 --> 00:39:25,948
know, you could own four pairs of
espadrilles and not feel like they're
769
00:39:25,948 --> 00:39:29,138
interchangeable, because they could
have completely different vibes
770
00:39:29,198 --> 00:39:31,608
based on the colors, the materials.
771
00:39:31,708 --> 00:39:34,658
Yoana: And well, the one thing about
espadrilles, correct me if I'm wrong,
772
00:39:34,718 --> 00:39:36,738
but I haven't really seen them at all.
773
00:39:36,778 --> 00:39:39,548
Like, they haven't really been
popping up on any influencer I follow.
774
00:39:39,548 --> 00:39:41,258
I don't really see a lot
of people wearing them.
775
00:39:41,258 --> 00:39:44,768
And in this like Substack, Bella,
who writes it, like talks about how
776
00:39:44,768 --> 00:39:48,648
they're coming to life a little bit in
Valentino in their spring summer 2019.
777
00:39:48,798 --> 00:39:50,748
they're in JW Anderson 2020.
778
00:39:50,848 --> 00:39:53,268
Dior did them in their pre-fall 2024.
779
00:39:53,368 --> 00:39:57,448
But there's an obsession with the ballet
flat right now, and so the espadrille
780
00:39:57,448 --> 00:40:00,388
has like come up in the runway, but
it hasn't really been picked up.
781
00:40:00,438 --> 00:40:04,448
it makes me think about the Samba
in one more connection point because
782
00:40:04,448 --> 00:40:07,478
there's gonna be a point in time
where the Samba like loses relevance.
783
00:40:07,548 --> 00:40:09,528
I'd argue it's almost already there.
784
00:40:09,628 --> 00:40:13,767
And then it's gonna go into like a
total quiet period, and the Samba's
785
00:40:13,767 --> 00:40:16,637
not really gonna be relevant for a long
time, kind of like the Air Force 1.
786
00:40:16,737 --> 00:40:20,187
And maybe the espadrilles have almost
been on a lull 'cause there was such
787
00:40:20,187 --> 00:40:24,967
a prevalence, of them being worn, that
they're in their quiet period right now.
788
00:40:24,967 --> 00:40:28,237
So I'd almost argue, like I actually
don't know if they're as relevant
789
00:40:28,237 --> 00:40:29,527
right now than they used to be.
790
00:40:29,567 --> 00:40:32,697
They still s- serve the same
purpose, but they're not as relevant
791
00:40:32,727 --> 00:40:34,987
as, a flat is at the moment.
792
00:40:35,087 --> 00:40:36,157
But, I don't know
793
00:40:36,215 --> 00:40:39,263
Chandler: I think we're totally primed
for them to be super relevant again.
794
00:40:39,373 --> 00:40:42,287
Reason being, you go from ballet flats.
795
00:40:42,387 --> 00:40:44,677
We're starting to see
more of the jelly flats.
796
00:40:44,677 --> 00:40:45,097
Yoana: Mm-hmm.
797
00:40:45,323 --> 00:40:49,233
Chandler: The jelly flats are starting
to have woven textures or slats in
798
00:40:49,233 --> 00:40:52,863
them, and the progression naturally
takes you back to espadrilles.
799
00:40:52,906 --> 00:40:56,596
I think the way that the cycle is
going, espadrilles, whether it's next
800
00:40:56,606 --> 00:41:00,486
summer or two years from now, are
going to be worn on every influencer.
801
00:41:00,536 --> 00:41:01,276
but it's cyclical.
802
00:41:01,276 --> 00:41:05,856
Like, to the point of sambas, sambas
were huge, think it was maybe aughts.
803
00:41:05,856 --> 00:41:09,236
But, they come and go, you know, it's
a cycle, and I think espadrilles is
804
00:41:09,236 --> 00:41:12,356
the same, where I do think people
are still wearing them a lot in the
805
00:41:12,356 --> 00:41:13,856
Mediterranean, where they're from.
806
00:41:13,946 --> 00:41:18,746
But I do think in terms of the American,
usage, I think it's gonna be back soon
807
00:41:18,846 --> 00:41:19,206
Yoana: Yeah.
808
00:41:19,256 --> 00:41:22,646
I think even just final point I'll
make on this is, you know, there were
809
00:41:22,746 --> 00:41:27,436
a lot of the runway shows that just
happened in Milan for men's collections.
810
00:41:27,536 --> 00:41:32,166
You did see this, like, play with
gender, and it is such a genderless shoe.
811
00:41:32,266 --> 00:41:36,656
But I would argue that in the
2000s, you know, I think, like, men
812
00:41:36,656 --> 00:41:38,086
wouldn't really wear an espadrille.
813
00:41:38,126 --> 00:41:41,696
I mean, Dylan and I were just talking
about packing for Croatia, and I was
814
00:41:41,696 --> 00:41:43,866
like, "You need to buy espadrilles.
I love them." And he's like, "Ah,
815
00:41:43,966 --> 00:41:47,426
I I don't really know. Like, do men
wear that shoe?" And I do think there
816
00:41:47,426 --> 00:41:50,586
was this, like, period where they're
actually not a feminine shoe, but
817
00:41:50,586 --> 00:41:52,156
they were almost really feminized.
818
00:41:52,256 --> 00:41:52,576
Chandler: Nick has them
819
00:41:53,034 --> 00:41:54,224
Yoana: I love that for Nick.
820
00:41:54,334 --> 00:41:54,674
Chandler: His are super cute
821
00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:55,411
Yoana: pop it on the screen
822
00:41:56,845 --> 00:41:58,365
Chandler: they have Aperol on them
823
00:41:58,571 --> 00:41:59,201
Yoana: I love that.
824
00:41:59,301 --> 00:41:59,951
Chandler: My king.
825
00:42:00,051 --> 00:42:02,751
Yoana: but yeah, espadrilles are,
it's time for them to come back.
826
00:42:02,751 --> 00:42:03,731
We're calling it now.
827
00:42:03,741 --> 00:42:07,161
We are also a trend reporting
and trend forecasting podcast.
828
00:42:07,161 --> 00:42:07,691
No, I'm joking.
829
00:42:07,791 --> 00:42:09,841
Um, actually the exact opposite.
830
00:42:09,841 --> 00:42:11,075
Chandler: I really do, I think
they're gonna be back, I do.
831
00:42:11,115 --> 00:42:14,495
I also think right now more men
are wearing them, but I think it's
832
00:42:14,535 --> 00:42:17,755
partially 'cause there's this huge
push for men to be more fashionable.
833
00:42:17,855 --> 00:42:18,295
Yoana: Mm-hmm
834
00:42:18,395 --> 00:42:19,855
Chandler: And I mean,
they're super fashionable.
835
00:42:19,955 --> 00:42:23,743
And especially as men are wearing
looser and more relaxed silhouettes,
836
00:42:23,843 --> 00:42:24,273
Yoana: Mm-hmm.
837
00:42:24,328 --> 00:42:27,678
Chandler: in linen, what shoe goes better
with relaxed linen than an espadrille?
838
00:42:27,748 --> 00:42:30,328
I don't think there is
one No men in flip-flops.
839
00:42:30,418 --> 00:42:31,208
Put on an espadrille.
840
00:42:31,308 --> 00:42:32,328
Yoana: I agree with that.
841
00:42:32,428 --> 00:42:33,798
Please leave them at home.
842
00:42:33,898 --> 00:42:35,648
There's other options out there.
843
00:42:35,768 --> 00:42:36,238
okay.
844
00:42:36,288 --> 00:42:40,288
maybe the next thing I wanna kinda talk
about is we talked about some brands that
845
00:42:40,288 --> 00:42:44,168
really lean into heritage, like Diego's
is one of them, in terms of playing out
846
00:42:44,168 --> 00:42:45,748
that narrative of where these come from.
847
00:42:45,748 --> 00:42:49,798
But there's also a lot of other brands
that are kind of pushing behind or past
848
00:42:49,798 --> 00:42:54,588
just this idea of nostalgia and not
just leaning into what the origin story
849
00:42:54,588 --> 00:42:59,048
of the espadrille is, but also kind of
like making it an area to evolve on.
850
00:42:59,048 --> 00:43:02,158
as we prepare for the pod, I always
find myself naturally gravitating
851
00:43:02,158 --> 00:43:05,458
towards a brand that I haven't
known about before, and this time
852
00:43:05,458 --> 00:43:09,378
this brand called Nagisa came up as
like the clearest example of that.
853
00:43:09,388 --> 00:43:11,098
I think I'm pronouncing that correctly.
854
00:43:11,198 --> 00:43:15,878
but basically they don't treat this
espadrille as a label of tradition.
855
00:43:15,978 --> 00:43:19,298
It's almost, like a design
language that they expand upon.
856
00:43:19,298 --> 00:43:24,298
And what's really interesting is that
the founder of the brand, actually in
857
00:43:24,298 --> 00:43:30,048
an interview talks about how, she didn't
consider herself, as buying an espadrille.
858
00:43:30,048 --> 00:43:31,698
Like it's not something
that she would wear.
859
00:43:31,748 --> 00:43:34,178
Claudia Pérez Polo,
who's their co-founder.
860
00:43:34,198 --> 00:43:37,008
And I thought that was actually
pretty revealing 'cause it almost
861
00:43:37,008 --> 00:43:40,808
suggests that this brand was born
from someone who understood that to
862
00:43:40,818 --> 00:43:45,188
keep the shoe alive, it has to be,
adapted for a more younger consumer,
863
00:43:45,198 --> 00:43:47,038
a more like design aware audience.
864
00:43:47,098 --> 00:43:50,508
There's a really neat version of
their shoe that it looks like a
865
00:43:50,508 --> 00:43:55,018
laced up, a high top Converse in
a way is like where my mind went.
866
00:43:55,118 --> 00:43:58,998
it really shows you how you can evolve
to create the future of the espadrille
867
00:43:59,008 --> 00:44:02,888
while you still maintain those elements
that you talked about that exist in the
868
00:44:02,888 --> 00:44:05,338
ordinance that was written way back when.
869
00:44:05,408 --> 00:44:10,818
and it's neat to see that alive in
Spanish brands as well, and kinda
870
00:44:10,818 --> 00:44:14,288
like keeping the shoe culturally
grounded, but also making it current.
871
00:44:14,388 --> 00:44:14,718
Yeah
872
00:44:14,818 --> 00:44:15,568
Chandler: It's very cool.
873
00:44:15,618 --> 00:44:19,308
I think so many of my favorite
pieces come out of Spain.
874
00:44:19,358 --> 00:44:23,138
I think their creative community
is really good at freshness.
875
00:44:23,188 --> 00:44:26,938
and I love that the espadrille is one
area that they've put some of that effort
876
00:44:26,938 --> 00:44:30,478
towards because we've talked a lot about
how it's kind of like a cultural icon for
877
00:44:30,478 --> 00:44:35,108
Spain, and seeing that continue to evolve
while still remaining relevant in its
878
00:44:35,108 --> 00:44:37,128
original form I think is really exciting
879
00:44:37,228 --> 00:44:41,028
Yoana: But even then like the next
piece which is luxury, ' cause you're
880
00:44:41,028 --> 00:44:45,498
seeing Spanish brands still kind of
reinvent it, But there's also a lot
881
00:44:45,498 --> 00:44:49,288
of interesting things happening with
how luxury houses use the espadrille
882
00:44:49,298 --> 00:44:53,458
almost as a canvas, pun intended,
ha ha, for their identity in a way.
883
00:44:53,558 --> 00:44:57,238
I'll quickly like flip through
Hermès, Chanel, and Valentino.
884
00:44:57,288 --> 00:44:59,268
they're not doing the same
thing, but I think the message
885
00:44:59,268 --> 00:45:00,228
they're sending is clear.
886
00:45:00,298 --> 00:45:05,628
they use the espadrille as another way to
extend their brand and have you enter like
887
00:45:05,628 --> 00:45:10,018
the emotional world of what Hermès is,
of what Chanel is, of what Valentino is.
888
00:45:10,118 --> 00:45:13,508
And so like Hermès obviously
the most restrained out of the
889
00:45:13,508 --> 00:45:15,558
three from a brand perspective.
890
00:45:15,608 --> 00:45:19,701
when Hermès does this, they're really
just … There's no logo attached to it.
891
00:45:19,711 --> 00:45:21,111
Obviously it's Hermès.
892
00:45:21,161 --> 00:45:24,451
they're taking the silhouette that you
see on the Oran sandal, and the only thing
893
00:45:24,451 --> 00:45:27,861
that really, feels distinct about it is
that the shoe's actually not screaming
894
00:45:27,861 --> 00:45:31,751
for that much attention, Hermès just in
general doesn't scream for attention, but
895
00:45:31,751 --> 00:45:35,241
the shoe does scream Hermès 'cause if you
know the Oran, if you know the silhouette
896
00:45:35,241 --> 00:45:38,901
of a Hermès shoe, then you clearly
just see that world of Hermès being
897
00:45:38,901 --> 00:45:41,561
translated onto an espadrille format.
898
00:45:41,581 --> 00:45:44,021
So it's not really, like,
reinventing anything.
899
00:45:44,041 --> 00:45:47,561
It's just like an extension of
the Hermès world onto this shoe.
900
00:45:47,751 --> 00:45:51,911
What's interesting though, and you can
tell me if you disagree, I would argue
901
00:45:51,911 --> 00:45:55,121
that at first glance when I see the
shoe, I wouldn't think that's Hermès,
902
00:45:55,151 --> 00:45:56,261
I would think that's an espadrille
903
00:45:56,361 --> 00:45:57,841
Chandler: Yeah, I think you totally would.
904
00:45:57,841 --> 00:46:01,971
So I, as you were talking about that,
I started to be like, I don't think I
905
00:46:01,971 --> 00:46:04,451
would ever buy an espadrille from Hermès.
906
00:46:04,551 --> 00:46:09,571
The reason being, Hermès' whole thing
is their craftsmanship, which is
907
00:46:09,571 --> 00:46:11,701
amazing, and they're so good at it.
908
00:46:11,801 --> 00:46:16,391
They're really good at it at leather
because of their heritage and how
909
00:46:16,391 --> 00:46:18,581
they originated as a saddle company.
910
00:46:18,631 --> 00:46:22,581
if I wanted like gorgeous, amazing
craftsmanship in a shoe, I would
911
00:46:22,581 --> 00:46:24,711
go buy a leather shoe from Hermès.
912
00:46:24,811 --> 00:46:28,221
If I wanted gorgeous, amazing
craftsmanship in an espadrille, I would
913
00:46:28,221 --> 00:46:30,601
go buy one from a little village in Spain.
914
00:46:30,701 --> 00:46:31,911
Like, that's their bread and butter.
915
00:46:31,941 --> 00:46:33,181
That's what they've been doing.
916
00:46:33,281 --> 00:46:34,501
I would let them do it.
917
00:46:34,541 --> 00:46:36,831
I'm sure they sell well, there're
people that wanna wear Hermès,
918
00:46:36,831 --> 00:46:39,241
and they're gonna do that, and so
they're gonna buy that espadrille.
919
00:46:39,341 --> 00:46:41,001
and it makes sense for their company DNA.
920
00:46:41,051 --> 00:46:44,511
I just, for me, if you're
looking for a great espadrille,
921
00:46:44,561 --> 00:46:45,811
I would find it elsewhere
922
00:46:45,911 --> 00:46:47,191
Yoana: Yeah, like I love that.
923
00:46:47,191 --> 00:46:48,111
That's a really good point.
924
00:46:48,141 --> 00:46:51,541
I mean, I think with the other two,
like Chanel, you think about the Chanel
925
00:46:51,541 --> 00:46:53,311
espadrille, there's tweed, right?
926
00:46:53,321 --> 00:46:56,311
There's either like it's a tweed
espadrille that's what Chanel is
927
00:46:56,311 --> 00:46:59,561
known for, and then with Valentino
you see the rock studs coming out.
928
00:46:59,661 --> 00:47:03,401
I love how you just articulated that
because you aren't buying the Chanel
929
00:47:03,401 --> 00:47:05,991
espadrille, the Hermès espadrille,
or the Valentino espadrille if
930
00:47:06,001 --> 00:47:07,391
you want a quality espadrille.
931
00:47:07,491 --> 00:47:10,881
You're buying it because like you
love that Valentino does studs and you
932
00:47:10,881 --> 00:47:12,411
love like that world that they create.
933
00:47:12,561 --> 00:47:15,561
You love tweed 'cause it feels
Chanel, and you maybe wanna
934
00:47:15,561 --> 00:47:17,131
signal that you're wearing Chanel.
935
00:47:17,281 --> 00:47:22,041
it's in a way like not the most authentic
version of an espadrille, but it's those
936
00:47:22,051 --> 00:47:27,331
houses creating a product for people
that are so entrenched in, buying from
937
00:47:27,331 --> 00:47:30,741
them that they're almost using the
espadrilles as another mechanism of
938
00:47:30,948 --> 00:47:33,958
you can also get the espadrille 'cause
it has the same DNA of the brand."
939
00:47:34,058 --> 00:47:37,908
Chandler: least part of Hermes's target
audience feels like the Riviera, right?
940
00:47:37,928 --> 00:47:39,968
feels like the people who
have been wearing espadrilles
941
00:47:40,004 --> 00:47:41,794
. Valentino definitely less so.
942
00:47:41,894 --> 00:47:47,564
I feel like that target audience is, New
York, the downtown scene, very urban.
943
00:47:47,644 --> 00:47:51,774
And so I think if I'm the type of
person who wears Valentino day in and
944
00:47:51,774 --> 00:47:55,874
day out, an espadrille is not really
something that I'm in the market for.
945
00:47:55,924 --> 00:47:59,634
but if I need a vacation shoe, that
Valentino one might work out for me.
946
00:47:59,644 --> 00:48:02,314
So I think it just depends on who you are
947
00:48:02,414 --> 00:48:02,874
Yoana: Yeah.
948
00:48:02,924 --> 00:48:07,274
maybe you're like the person from
New York that loves to go out and
949
00:48:07,274 --> 00:48:13,064
wears Valentino and is gonna be going
clubbing in Ibiza until like 4:00 AM
950
00:48:13,164 --> 00:48:15,634
and needs a shoe that isn't a stiletto.
951
00:48:15,704 --> 00:48:18,264
Like, that's when you buy
the Valentino stud espadrille
952
00:48:18,364 --> 00:48:18,604
Chandler: Yeah.
953
00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:21,040
Or like, what are you gonna
wear to the beach club?
954
00:48:21,140 --> 00:48:22,720
Yoana: Right, like you're going
to the beach club if you're
955
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:24,190
buying the Valentino Espadrille
956
00:48:24,221 --> 00:48:24,481
Chandler: Yeah.
957
00:48:24,581 --> 00:48:26,251
So that's who that's for.
958
00:48:26,301 --> 00:48:28,961
but they're not gonna be wearing
the one from the tiny village
959
00:48:29,061 --> 00:48:29,691
Yoana: Yeah.
960
00:48:29,791 --> 00:48:30,631
it's interesting.
961
00:48:30,730 --> 00:48:34,020
Chandler: I think what's cool,
there are not that many things that
962
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,000
every house does, and obviously
not every house has done these.
963
00:48:37,100 --> 00:48:40,930
Most houses do bags, and like boots.
964
00:48:40,930 --> 00:48:44,884
those are all pretty broad categories,
and espadrilles is pretty specific.
965
00:48:44,894 --> 00:48:47,374
Like when I defined it at the
beginning, there are specific
966
00:48:47,374 --> 00:48:48,814
things that make up an espadrille.
967
00:48:48,814 --> 00:48:51,764
It's like you have to have the
rope sole, there's a canvas upper.
968
00:48:51,864 --> 00:48:55,294
Like there's multiple things at play
here, and the fact that they're so
969
00:48:55,294 --> 00:48:58,654
ubiquitous that many of these houses
have done a version I feel like
970
00:48:58,664 --> 00:49:00,794
speaks to how relevant they are.
971
00:49:00,884 --> 00:49:04,024
Yoana: I mean you just walked me into
my next thing really perfectly, which is
972
00:49:04,094 --> 00:49:05,704
how I'm gonna close out, to be honest.
973
00:49:05,774 --> 00:49:09,154
you know, I think the reason why
a lot of these brands are doing
974
00:49:09,154 --> 00:49:13,194
them is 'cause they answer a really
common wardrobe problem, right?
975
00:49:13,194 --> 00:49:17,244
Like, people want a piece that feels,
you know, not super old-fashioned,
976
00:49:17,254 --> 00:49:18,564
but a little bit more rooted.
977
00:49:18,574 --> 00:49:20,624
Like, it's easy, but it's not bland.
978
00:49:20,724 --> 00:49:21,854
It's, stylish.
979
00:49:21,904 --> 00:49:23,084
it's not too try-hard.
980
00:49:23,254 --> 00:49:27,114
I think a lot of people when they think
about the summer think about, effortlessly
981
00:49:27,214 --> 00:49:31,634
looking good, and espadrilles do that in
a beautiful manner, and so why wouldn't
982
00:49:31,734 --> 00:49:34,124
every brand try to attach their DNA on it?
983
00:49:34,224 --> 00:49:36,144
And they've just continuously
gotten reinterpreted.
984
00:49:36,194 --> 00:49:41,754
But, I think one of the clearest
examples that I want to tie back to
985
00:49:41,794 --> 00:49:46,449
your point earlier on when celebrities
picked this up in the 1930s through
986
00:49:46,449 --> 00:49:48,954
the 1950s is, Morjas and Goldberger.
987
00:49:49,734 --> 00:49:53,747
Morjas is a footwear company,
and they approach the espadrille
988
00:49:53,767 --> 00:49:55,387
from a very contemporary angle.
989
00:49:55,537 --> 00:49:59,037
it's handmade in Spain, but they elevate
the jute sole, and it's finished in
990
00:49:59,037 --> 00:50:00,917
suede to kinda look more polished.
991
00:50:01,017 --> 00:50:04,837
A little bit more, if you were
going to dinner at, a resort.
992
00:50:04,937 --> 00:50:11,248
And on their website, they did this really
unique profile with Auro Montanari, who's
993
00:50:11,288 --> 00:50:13,448
actually better known as John Goldberger.
994
00:50:13,488 --> 00:50:17,368
That's his, alias name, And he is,
one of the most famous vintage watch
995
00:50:17,368 --> 00:50:21,208
collectors in the world, one of the
most respected names in that field.
996
00:50:21,258 --> 00:50:26,038
owned probably the most rare form
of a Rolex, which is, like, I think
997
00:50:26,038 --> 00:50:28,298
it was an 18 karat white gold Rolex.
998
00:50:28,348 --> 00:50:32,118
he donated all the proceeds, it
was around 6 million, to charity.
999
00:50:32,218 --> 00:50:37,608
And, he, has completely avoided anything
public, and Morjas, over a couple of
1000
00:50:37,608 --> 00:50:39,938
years, created a relationship with him.
1001
00:50:39,948 --> 00:50:42,688
The founder actually just met him
at a dinner, and they got along.
1002
00:50:42,788 --> 00:50:47,568
And the first collaboration that
this man, did with a brand in a
1003
00:50:47,578 --> 00:50:49,358
branded, shoot was with Morjas.
1004
00:50:49,428 --> 00:50:51,468
That is his first partnership.
1005
00:50:51,568 --> 00:50:57,768
His second partnership is with
Zegna, and, like, Zegna is on a
1006
00:50:57,818 --> 00:50:59,118
completely different ballpark.
1007
00:50:59,118 --> 00:51:03,558
Morjas sells shoes for
$180, $180 espadrilles.
1008
00:51:03,558 --> 00:51:06,398
Zegna shoes, 900 to, like, $2,000.
1009
00:51:06,498 --> 00:51:09,928
when Goldberger did his second
collaboration, with Zegna, they
1010
00:51:09,928 --> 00:51:13,218
mention that Goldberger embodies
this, ambition and craftsmanship.
1011
00:51:13,268 --> 00:51:17,628
I just think it's really interesting that
Zegna is this brand, very high fashion,
1012
00:51:17,728 --> 00:51:22,318
but Goldberger, who also collects these,
million-dollar watches, decides to do
1013
00:51:22,318 --> 00:51:27,258
his first-ever brand collaboration with
an espadrille company that sells them
1014
00:51:27,258 --> 00:51:33,988
for $180 because there's this philosophy
almost of, taste, ease, and craft that
1015
00:51:33,988 --> 00:51:37,898
an espadrille has, which is almost
timeless, and I think that's the whole
1016
00:51:37,898 --> 00:51:39,678
point of why they're relevant today.
1017
00:51:39,734 --> 00:51:40,234
Chandler: Yeah.
1018
00:51:40,424 --> 00:51:41,164
It's really funny.
1019
00:51:41,164 --> 00:51:44,794
I feel like in a certain lens
they can almost feel old money
1020
00:51:44,894 --> 00:51:45,494
Yoana: Yes
1021
00:51:45,594 --> 00:51:48,584
Chandler: But now that we know
where they came from, that's insane.
1022
00:51:48,684 --> 00:51:50,784
Like, that's so not where they came from.
1023
00:51:50,834 --> 00:51:53,634
So it's so interesting that
that's how they've evolved.
1024
00:51:53,734 --> 00:51:54,954
And I don't think they
have to feel that way.
1025
00:51:54,954 --> 00:51:57,844
I think they can just be a
really casual, practical shoe.
1026
00:51:57,944 --> 00:52:01,224
I think it depends who's wearing them
in what context, but It's such an
1027
00:52:01,234 --> 00:52:05,704
interesting history, and, like, very not
in line with other topics we've covered.
1028
00:52:05,714 --> 00:52:08,544
So I kinda love it, 'cause I was
getting tired of being like, "The
1029
00:52:08,544 --> 00:52:10,544
wealthy wore them. The wealthy
wore them." Now the wealthy
1030
00:52:10,562 --> 00:52:10,962
Yoana: I know.
1031
00:52:11,052 --> 00:52:11,605
Chandler: but they didn't always
1032
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:11,959
Yoana: Yeah.
1033
00:52:12,059 --> 00:52:13,609
Chandler: We know why
Goldberger wore them.
1034
00:52:13,709 --> 00:52:15,049
Do you own any?
1035
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:16,819
What do they evoke for you?
1036
00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:17,919
What would your vibe be?
1037
00:52:17,919 --> 00:52:19,259
I would be surprised if you owned any
1038
00:52:19,319 --> 00:52:21,249
Yoana: I actually haven't
told you this story.
1039
00:52:21,299 --> 00:52:24,389
I used to wear them a lot,
surprisingly, in high school.
1040
00:52:24,499 --> 00:52:27,349
and my mom loves espadrilles.
1041
00:52:27,739 --> 00:52:28,409
Chandler: My queen
1042
00:52:28,689 --> 00:52:31,009
Yoana: literally my style icon, my queen.
1043
00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:31,869
I love my mom.
1044
00:52:31,969 --> 00:52:35,529
but, like, my mom has always been someone
that's loves getting done up, and she's
1045
00:52:35,529 --> 00:52:37,459
just, like, is always put together.
1046
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:42,289
And whenever we would go on vacation, my
mom would never buy a pair of flip-flops.
1047
00:52:42,299 --> 00:52:45,369
She was like, "We are not wearing
flip-flops. I'm wearing espadrilles."
1048
00:52:45,379 --> 00:52:48,579
Like, my mom had probably,
like at least 10 pairs at home.
1049
00:52:48,579 --> 00:52:49,869
she had a denim espadrille.
1050
00:52:49,879 --> 00:52:52,189
She would, like, get an
espadrille for every color bag.
1051
00:52:52,189 --> 00:52:56,079
I vividly remember this pair of,
a pink espadrille she had that
1052
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:57,429
matched one of her beach bags.
1053
00:52:57,449 --> 00:53:01,309
And, it was my mom's DNA and MO,
and she always used to wear heels,
1054
00:53:01,389 --> 00:53:04,369
She still does wear heels, but
not as frequently, obviously.
1055
00:53:04,419 --> 00:53:07,839
older, whenever we were on vacation,
my mom's vacation shoe was an
1056
00:53:07,849 --> 00:53:11,819
espadrille because it was her way
to, like, elevate vacation dressing,
1057
00:53:11,919 --> 00:53:14,739
but she couldn't be wearing a heel
the way that she would be before.
1058
00:53:14,759 --> 00:53:18,979
So, I love that this podcast is
about intentionally getting dressed
1059
00:53:18,989 --> 00:53:20,999
and tapping into your closet.
1060
00:53:21,009 --> 00:53:24,559
However, I don't actually own a pair
of espadrilles right now, and I would
1061
00:53:24,569 --> 00:53:29,029
be lying to you if I didn't tell you
that I texted myself six that I'm
1062
00:53:29,029 --> 00:53:31,179
considering buying post-research.
1063
00:53:31,259 --> 00:53:31,649
Chandler: love that.
1064
00:53:31,649 --> 00:53:32,569
Okay, Gal.
1065
00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:34,229
Yoana: I'm excited for
her to listen to this one,
1066
00:53:34,299 --> 00:53:37,949
Chandler: she's a closed-toed girl,
and this is the shoe for that if
1067
00:53:37,949 --> 00:53:39,289
that's you, sometimes that's me.
1068
00:53:39,289 --> 00:53:41,966
I have… remember when we were
at the beach and we were like
1069
00:53:41,966 --> 00:53:43,286
going through our old Instagrams
1070
00:53:43,346 --> 00:53:43,736
Yoana: Mm-hmm.
1071
00:53:43,836 --> 00:53:47,436
Chandler: Do you remember that
two-piece blue set I was wearing
1072
00:53:47,536 --> 00:53:50,846
Yoana: I think we're gonna put that photo
up, but it's gonna be like, "Oh, wow,
1073
00:53:50,846 --> 00:53:54,186
so you guys started a fashion podcast.
You guys need to see these outfits."
1074
00:53:54,236 --> 00:53:59,826
Chandler: Okay, so that outfit, I'm
wearing pair of platform shoes, and I
1075
00:53:59,836 --> 00:54:03,613
don't know if you can really call them
an espadrille because there is, like, a
1076
00:54:03,613 --> 00:54:06,063
little toe hole But they're very close.
1077
00:54:06,163 --> 00:54:10,333
Like, they wrap around your ankles,
the canvas upper, the jute sole.
1078
00:54:10,393 --> 00:54:14,483
And what's funny is, I would never wear
the blue outfit in that photo again.
1079
00:54:14,673 --> 00:54:17,153
Honestly, I can't believe
I ever did wear it.
1080
00:54:17,253 --> 00:54:20,033
But I still own those shoes,
and I still wear them sometimes.
1081
00:54:20,053 --> 00:54:22,173
Like, I think they are pretty timeless.
1082
00:54:22,273 --> 00:54:23,073
They're really cute.
1083
00:54:23,123 --> 00:54:27,063
It's, like, a lemon yellow and
white striped pattern on them.
1084
00:54:27,163 --> 00:54:28,143
You're a heels girl.
1085
00:54:28,163 --> 00:54:28,943
I am not.
1086
00:54:28,993 --> 00:54:33,303
so these are great for me because I
can wear them as a platform and get
1087
00:54:33,303 --> 00:54:36,713
some height, but I don't really care
for a lot of platforms, but I do love
1088
00:54:36,713 --> 00:54:40,033
a platform espadrille, so they're
kind of perfect in that regard.
1089
00:54:40,093 --> 00:54:42,753
I also have my eye on some
that I would like to acquire.
1090
00:54:42,853 --> 00:54:47,453
But yeah, I feel like honestly any warm
weather situation can't really go wrong
1091
00:54:47,553 --> 00:54:48,023
Yoana: Totally.
1092
00:54:48,073 --> 00:54:50,103
I have the shoe in my mind.
1093
00:54:50,183 --> 00:54:52,143
I had to pull up the
photo from your Instagram.
1094
00:54:52,243 --> 00:54:53,893
But, some things are cyclical.
1095
00:54:54,073 --> 00:54:57,303
Hope to God that nothing that we're both
wearing in that outfit is ever cyclical
1096
00:54:57,403 --> 00:54:58,773
or that we're wearing in that photo.
1097
00:54:58,873 --> 00:55:00,823
But those shoes, like
yeah, those are timeless.
1098
00:55:00,823 --> 00:55:03,163
Like, it's kinda one of those things
that if you had it in your closet
1099
00:55:03,163 --> 00:55:07,003
when you were 18, like if they're not
beat up and they still fit you, like
1100
00:55:07,003 --> 00:55:08,363
you shouldn't really throw them away.
1101
00:55:08,363 --> 00:55:09,203
Like, why would you?
1102
00:55:09,377 --> 00:55:12,037
Chandler: I don't think I own
anything in that photo still.
1103
00:55:12,067 --> 00:55:14,667
The only thing I still own is those
shoes because they've survived a
1104
00:55:14,667 --> 00:55:17,847
lot of closet cleanouts because
they're really cute and timeless.
1105
00:55:17,897 --> 00:55:20,667
I think, to the point I was making
about the old money thing, I
1106
00:55:20,667 --> 00:55:23,517
do actually feel like they feed
into that a little bit for me.
1107
00:55:23,557 --> 00:55:26,047
Like, I feel like Grace Kelly
when I've got those on, and
1108
00:55:26,047 --> 00:55:27,947
she's got old money vibes to me.
1109
00:55:28,047 --> 00:55:32,647
I wanna put on, like, long line
linen shorts, a striped tee, and some
1110
00:55:32,647 --> 00:55:34,967
espadrilles, and hair in a ponytail.
1111
00:55:35,023 --> 00:55:35,543
Yoana: I love that.
1112
00:55:35,623 --> 00:55:37,923
I think we need a Sarcurious trip to Spain
1113
00:55:38,023 --> 00:55:40,743
Chandler: Mm, dude, I love Spain
1114
00:55:40,843 --> 00:55:41,153
Yoana: I know.
1115
00:55:41,333 --> 00:55:42,103
I've never been
1116
00:55:42,203 --> 00:55:43,433
Chandler: Dude, it's not right.
1117
00:55:43,509 --> 00:55:44,269
Yoana: It is wrong.
1118
00:55:44,369 --> 00:55:45,229
We do have to go.
1119
00:55:45,329 --> 00:55:46,599
Well, thanks for listening
1120
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:47,786
Chandler: I think that wraps it up.
1121
00:55:47,886 --> 00:55:50,866
So we'll catch you next
time, and have a good one
1122
00:55:50,966 --> 00:55:51,026
Yoana: Yeah.
1123
00:55:51,126 --> 00:55:51,576
Bye guys.
1124
00:55:51,676 --> 00:55:52,076
Love ya
1125
00:55:52,098 --> 00:55:52,208
Chandler: Love you.
1126
00:55:54,087 --> 00:55:55,067
i'm so scared.
1127
00:55:55,801 --> 00:55:56,421
Yoana: We're live?
1128
00:55:56,521 --> 00:55:56,891
Okay.
1129
00:55:56,941 --> 00:55:56,961
I'm gonna'
1130
00:55:57,061 --> 00:55:58,821
Chandler: The smile you
just did was kind of scary
1131
00:55:58,921 --> 00:56:01,191
Yoana: We're here 30 minutes later.
1132
00:56:01,301 --> 00:56:02,161
Chandler: I'm scared right now
1133
00:56:02,261 --> 00:56:03,541
Yoana: Oh, God
1134
00:56:03,641 --> 00:56:04,581
Chandler: Let's see how that sounds
1135
00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:07,181
Yoana: It's time
1136
00:56:07,628 --> 00:56:09,468
Chandler: I'm getting oily
1137
00:56:09,568 --> 00:56:10,798
I have two AirPods in
1138
00:56:10,898 --> 00:56:11,188
Okay.
1139
00:56:11,288 --> 00:56:12,148
Hi
1140
00:56:12,248 --> 00:56:13,268
Yoana: crazy times