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What are the conditions
when I perform at my best?
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And there are many conditions that apply,
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but these six have
disproportionately greater impact.
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And they are, in no particular order,
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purpose, challenge,
attention, growth, recognition.
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And the sixth is choice.
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Are all of those six conditions
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equally important
for people's performance,
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or does one of them
take priority over the others?
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All of them are tremendously important.
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Hi, I'm Helen Tupper,
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the host of HSBC's Power Up podcast,
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a podcast that is all about
helping people to perform at their best.
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HSBC has spent
the past few years transforming.
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Its got a plan and it's performing well.
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The opportunity now is to sustain
and grow that performance,
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and that is what
this podcast is all about.
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We're going to be hearing
from lots of different people
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about what performance means to them,
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gaining ideas and fresh perspectives
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that can help us be
at our best in our work.
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In today's podcast,
we're going to be talking about
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how you can power up your performance,
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and we'll be learning from Octavius Black,
the founder of Mind Gym,
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an organisation
that uses behavioural science
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to influence people's performance
and impact in their roles.
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We're going to be talking
about the six different things
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that you can do
to nail your performance at work.
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Octavius, welcome to the Power Up podcast.
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Thank you very much, Helen.
Delighted to be here.
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Brilliant to have you here
as our first guest on the series.
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I wonder if we can kick things off with
what is powering you up at the moment.
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What powers me up today and every day
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is trying to change the way
the world thinks.
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Amazing. And I know today we're going
to be talking about one of the insights
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that you've had during that time,
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which is about the factors
that contribute towards performance,
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which is the focus of today's episode.
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So, there are six conditions, I think,
that have come from your research,
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which are the most important influences
over people's performance.
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I wonder if you can just
give us an insight
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into what those six conditions are,
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and then we'll dive a bit deeper into
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how we can use them
to inform our own career.
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Absolutely. These come from
an enormous amount of research,
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not just done by us.
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We did the meta analysis
of decades of research
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into what are the conditions
when I perform at my best.
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And there are many conditions that apply,
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but these six have
disproportionately greater impact.
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And they are, in no particular order,
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purpose, so,
feeling that my work matters,
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or at the very least,
it wasn't irrelevant.
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Challenge.
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Feeling that I'm stretched to try and do
something that plays to my strengths.
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I can't quite see how to get there,
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but I'm sure there's a way.
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Attention - being noticed.
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It's very important for all of us
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to feel that other people have seen
or recognised what we're doing,
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and indeed what we're not doing,
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and being able to record that
and let us know.
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Growth.
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Really important part
of the essence of our human nature
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is to want to grow
and get better and progress.
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There are three virtual racing certainties
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that improve our level of happiness.
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One is listening to music we like.
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One is being with people
who make us feel good,
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and the third is learning or growth.
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So, this is really important.
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The fifth is recognition,
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feeling appreciated for what
we've done or what we've achieved.
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And the sixth is choice,
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feeling that I have
a sense of control over my destiny,
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that I can make things happen
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and decide what to do
that will affect the outcome.
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Are all of those six conditions
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equally important
for people's performance,
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or does one of them
take priority over the others?
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All of them are tremendously important.
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For individuals in different times
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there may be a different
weighting between them,
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but you don't want to let
any of them lapse.
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And what's exciting about them
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is it's not just about
the manager or the leader.
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It's as much us as individuals.
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There's a legal phrase called
jointly and severally responsible,
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and we've slightly borrowed that
for these six conditions.
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So, we're all jointly
and severally responsible
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for creating these conditions
across the bank.
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And so, intuitively,
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I kind of, I guess,
I get that growth is important
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and I understand purpose
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because we often talk about purpose
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and an organisation's purpose.
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But I think it would be good to dive into
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practically at an individual level,
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how do I and someone listening,
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take those six conditions
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and sort of add them into my work?
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Like, what am I going to do
differently on a day-to-day basis,
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so I get performance
from investing in those areas?
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So, let's take each one in turn
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and explore it a bit more deeply.
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Starting with the one that I think
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can come across as the biggest
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and maybe hardest to know what to do with
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on a day-to-day basis,
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which is purpose.
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So, what does that mean
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for someone at an individual level
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on an average day at work?
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It's a great question.
And what matters most of all,
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like news, is local purpose
or personal purpose.
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I'm going to look at this in two ways.
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The first is thinking, who benefits
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from the work that I am doing.
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So, as a result of getting the language
better in the application for a loan,
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maybe a business founder
is able to raise the money sooner
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and get the business off the ground.
And if I hadn't done that,
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they'd have had to have 2 or 3 goes
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and it would have been
too late for them to start.
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Or maybe an individual is able
to get a savings product
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that they would never otherwise have got,
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because they've discovered
that they're eligible for it.
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So, I can start to see the benefit
that someone's getting.
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And we know that the best days we have
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are those where we've made progress
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towards helping somebody else
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achieve something
that wasn't the case without us.
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Now it might be a customer,
as the examples I've given here,
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or it could be someone internally
or a collective effort.
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But what we've done has created
something bigger and better
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that someone else gains from.
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So, that's one stage and one way
we can think about purpose.
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But the other bit is simply thinking
that my work is not irrelevant.
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Now, that might sound irreverent,
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but it has a purpose to it as well.
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And I'll give you an example
from a famous psychology professor
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who asked doctors
and hospital janitors or cleaners
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to organise their work
between three different categories.
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Did they see it as a job?
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Did they see it as a career,
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or do they see it
as a calling with noble purpose?
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And what people often suspect
is that the doctors were more likely
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to see their work as a calling,
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and the hospital janitors more likely
to see their work as a job.
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-Yeah.
-That would be wrong.
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Oh, tell us more.
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What was really interesting
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is the results for the two
were exactly the same.
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And it was a third, a third, a third.
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So, allocated a third to it being a job,
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a third to it being a career
and a third to it being a calling.
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And what was so interesting
is she also repeated this research
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with other professions
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and found pretty much the same results.
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So, what that suggests is the degree
to which we see our work as purpose-driven
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or about making impact and mattering
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isn't a factor
of what the nature of the work is.
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It's a factor of the nature of who we are
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and how we choose to think.
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I really like that because I think
sometimes we make purpose
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this aspirational and maybe slightly
unattainable thing
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for everybody to have.
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But just starting with that question of
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who benefits from my work today
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just makes it feel much more,
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much more real
and much more something that,
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you know, I and people listening
can ask themselves.
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So, reminding ourselves
of why what we're doing matters
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and who benefits as a result
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not only is good for our overall
wellbeing and happiness,
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but has an enormous impact
on our performance.
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It makes me think, you know,
purpose is a prime of your performance.
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If you started your week
with that question in mind,
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what the impact over the week
on your performance could be,
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versus somebody who just,
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you know, just continues
with a day-to-day,
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slightly more kind of operating
on autopilot, I suppose.
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Exactly that, and not only
at the beginning of the week,
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but at the beginning of every day
or several times a day.
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And the other thing we can do
is not only do it for ourselves,
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but we can do it for our colleagues.
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So, Helen, I really thank you
for that research you gave me.
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I didn't put it in my report,
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but it got me thinking differently
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in a way
I'd never have got there without it.
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And suddenly you think, huh?
That was worthwhile!
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as opposed to, you give me the research,
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you see then my presentation,
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it's not mentioned in there. You think,
well, that was a waste of time, wasn't it?
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So, there's lots we can do individually
to help each other see purpose
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as well as to help ourselves.
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So, let's move on to another one
of the conditions that you mentioned,
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which was challenge.
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And I'm really intrigued by this,
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I think because I'm so attracted
to the idea of challenge.
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But I wanted to get your perspective
of what what does the research,
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your research tell us
about challenge at work?
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And then I have another question
in my mind
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about how do we get to the right challenge
for different people?
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So, the great thing about a challenge
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is you want it to be difficult,
just out of sight,
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-but not impossible.
-Okay.
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And that, of course, isn't necessarily
about the challenge itself.
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It's about how you choose to see it.
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Now, one of the challenges that we have
in organisations with challenge
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is that you can want to be global,
those challenges,
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in order that we get approved
of afterwards.
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So, if I set a really low expectation,
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oh, Helen,
this is going to be so difficult.
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You've got no idea.
The market's horrible...
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And I convince you, as my manager,
to give me a low-ball goal,
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I'm more likely to have achieved it
by the end of the year
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and get some credit for that.
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But actually it would be psychologically
a lot less satisfying
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and I will perform a lot worse.
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I'll give you an example
of an experiment.
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So, they took two groups of households
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and they encouraged them
to improve energy efficiency.
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This was a group of psychologists who are
always doing mean experiments like this.
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And they got one group to have
the goal of 20% energy improvement.
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And they really worked hard
to get the 20% energy improvement,
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but they only got to about 15%,
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which in old-fashioned
performance management was like,
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I'm afraid you've missed out.
You're going on a plan not so good.
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The other group had a 2% goal.
They got an average 6%.
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Congratulations! You've trebled your goal!
What a great job!
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But of course, you're much better off
with the people with the 15% improvement
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than you are with the 6% improvement.
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So, what that tells us is we're better off
having stretching goals,
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some of which we don't achieve
but will perform better
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than lowballing those goals,
exceeding them,
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but not stretching ourselves
nearly far enough.
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And so how important is it to be able
to see how far you've stretched almost to,
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to sort of take stock
of the successes along the way?
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It's really important.
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And this comes under
one of the other conditions,
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which is recognition
and being appreciated
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or appreciating yourself
for what you've achieved.
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So, the key is not to dismiss
those achievements
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because they're really important,
but not to harbour on them forever,
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00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:10,250
because otherwise you won't be on
to the next achievement,
246
00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:12,200
the next challenge down the road.
247
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,590
So, it's really important
to find out in yourself to say,
248
00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:17,830
what have I done that I'm really proud of,
and what can I learn from that?
249
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:20,443
And I can repeat and apply elsewhere?
250
00:10:20,523 --> 00:10:22,690
And what are the things
I could have done a bit differently,
251
00:10:22,770 --> 00:10:25,039
and how might I apply those in the future?
252
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,510
So, in terms of recognition,
let's stay with that condition.
253
00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:31,240
So, part of this is about
my own reflections
254
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,546
on what I have done well
and what I have achieved.
255
00:10:35,626 --> 00:10:38,670
Are we also seeking recognition
from other people
256
00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:40,679
in order to support
our performance as well?
257
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,213
-I think we're doing both.
-Okay.
258
00:10:42,293 --> 00:10:45,290
In psychological terms,
there are two kinds of a motivation.
259
00:10:45,370 --> 00:10:47,850
There's intrinsic and extrinsic.
260
00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:49,908
So, intrinsic are things
you draw from yourself.
261
00:10:49,989 --> 00:10:51,410
I'm pretty proud of myself.
262
00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:54,110
I love that experience
or that gave me pleasure.
263
00:10:54,190 --> 00:10:55,890
An extrinsic are the ones
that come from outside,
264
00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:58,160
you know, my boss or my colleague
or my partner told me
265
00:10:58,241 --> 00:11:01,161
I was wonderful or terrible
or whatever it happens to be.
266
00:11:01,447 --> 00:11:05,200
The more we can draw intrinsically
from our motivations,
267
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,110
the happier we're likely to be.
The less stressed we're likely to be,
268
00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:10,460
the more we're likely
to persist and sustain.
269
00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:13,100
But it's really hard to do
because we're so conditioned
270
00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:15,439
to want approval
from other people outside.
271
00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,020
So, recognising
there is this balance here,
272
00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,990
I encourage us as much as possible
to look for intrinsic motivations
273
00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,880
and recognising what you're proud of
and being: "That's good enough"
274
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,286
rather than relying
on other people's approval.
275
00:11:28,366 --> 00:11:29,890
But there are times you want
other people's approval,
276
00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:32,870
and particularly a manager
or the boss of the manager,
277
00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:35,740
you may want to be recognised
or appreciated for what you've done,
278
00:11:35,820 --> 00:11:38,020
and they're the most important thing
is to be perceived
279
00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:40,210
that you've been fairly recognised.
280
00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:42,973
You haven't got away with slacking off
and not being noticed,
281
00:11:43,053 --> 00:11:45,380
but you also haven't have
achieved something significant
282
00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:48,570
and therefore not being
appreciated for it.
283
00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:51,070
And so, if I come on to another condition,
284
00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:55,120
one of the things that's really important
is attention, being noticed.
285
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,830
So, if you feel you have not been
fairly recognised, then go ask.
286
00:11:59,910 --> 00:12:02,520
You know, I felt that I'd done
a great job on this
287
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,680
and you hadn't really appreciated it.
And so-and-so hadn't done such a good job,
288
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,970
and they got lots of credit for it.
What's up here?
289
00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:10,599
And you may find you've missed a point.
290
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,870
You know, the other person actually had
a more complex environment to navigate.
291
00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:16,230
They had to build tougher coalitions
292
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:18,940
and therefore that's why they've been
recognised for their achievement.
293
00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:21,120
Or it may be the person
just didn't notice what you'd done.
294
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,760
And now they do.
295
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,250
So, there's a very valuable part
in being noticed,
296
00:12:25,330 --> 00:12:27,950
which obviously we'd love other people
to do of their own volition.
297
00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:30,399
But if they don't, let's tell them.
298
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,490
I think that's a really interesting
relationship between recognition,
299
00:12:34,571 --> 00:12:37,020
so, what I can do for myself
and what I might want from other people,
300
00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:39,740
like you mentioned, manager in particular,
301
00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:42,900
and then also attention like kind of
asking for the feedback
302
00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:45,439
that's going to help me
with my performance.
303
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,230
If we were to look at that
from two different angles,
304
00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:52,039
so, how can managers support maybe
with feedback and then also recognition
305
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,750
and then me as an individual,
what could I do myself
306
00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:57,270
if we were to sort of break
that into a couple of actions?
307
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:59,800
What do you think managers
can do in those areas
308
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,120
to help people with their performance?
309
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,430
Well, the most important thing
managers can do,
310
00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:06,400
and we can also ask for it ourselves,
311
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,399
is to use what's called
descriptive praise.
312
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,167
-Okay.
-So, when you actually notice
313
00:13:10,247 --> 00:13:11,530
what someone did,
314
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,616
rather than telling them
they're brilliant or terrible
315
00:13:13,696 --> 00:13:16,040
or genius or lazy
or whatever it happens to be,
316
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,420
which is pretty useless
whether it's positive or negative,
317
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:20,479
you have no idea
what effect it's going to have.
318
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,000
But if you describe what happens,
319
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,719
then someone is much more likely to know
what to do as a result of it.
320
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,059
-Okay.
-They did this very interesting experiment
321
00:13:28,139 --> 00:13:33,260
with kids, and they asked kids
to draw a picture with their hand,
322
00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:36,543
invisible picture with the hand
of a tractor in a field.
323
00:13:36,623 --> 00:13:37,820
Now, obviously, because it was invisible
324
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:39,520
and you were just making it up
as you went along,
325
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,439
you couldn't tell if it was good or bad.
326
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,353
But to both groups, they said,
327
00:13:43,433 --> 00:13:45,090
to the first group,
they said, this is brilliant.
328
00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:47,493
What a fantastic drawing!
You're doing really well.
329
00:13:47,573 --> 00:13:49,210
And the second group,
they described what was happening.
330
00:13:49,290 --> 00:13:51,480
Oh, is that the sun?
Are you drawing a fence there?
331
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,980
Is that the tractor wheel?
Is that the hay and the field?
332
00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:57,440
So, they just described
what was happening.
333
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,850
Then for the second time, they had a go
at doing a different exercise,
334
00:13:59,930 --> 00:14:03,064
drawing something else, house on the hill
or whatever it happened to be.
335
00:14:03,144 --> 00:14:06,680
They said, oh my gosh, that's terrible.
You're making a real mess of this.
336
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,780
What kind of drawing is that?
That's... oh no, surely not!
337
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:13,160
Now, the first group had been told
how brilliant they were,
338
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,670
stopped much sooner and gave up.
339
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:18,870
Then the second group, who'd had
the descriptive praise beforehand
340
00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:21,279
and therefore knew
what good looked like.
341
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,680
So, there's something very powerful
about describing
342
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,301
what someone's doing
that helps build resilience,
343
00:14:26,381 --> 00:14:28,700
because we know what to do better.
344
00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:31,040
So therefore, as a manager,
instead of saying,
345
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,270
you did a great presentation,
you might say,
346
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:35,639
I noticed you had sources
in all of your charts.
347
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,190
Or I noticed that when the CEO asked you
a question, you asked a question back.
348
00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:42,400
And then separately,
you can say what that means to me.
349
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,669
So, I notice
you put sources on your charts.
350
00:14:44,749 --> 00:14:46,314
That tells me you're very rigorous.
351
00:14:46,394 --> 00:14:49,680
That suggests to me you've done a lot
of research to support this presentation.
352
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,300
Or you asked the CEO a question first.
353
00:14:52,380 --> 00:14:54,719
Suggest to me you're willing
to speak truth to power,
354
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,420
or you're willing
not to take something at face value
355
00:14:56,500 --> 00:14:58,910
because someone in authority
tells it to you.
356
00:14:58,990 --> 00:15:02,460
Now, on the receiving end of that,
I can disagree with the information.
357
00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:04,160
I can say,
there weren't sources in all my charts,
358
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,760
or actually it was a statement,
not a question. But that's quite unlikely.
359
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,679
But then I can debate about
the interpretation of it.
360
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,407
You know, I know you think
I'm very rigorous,
361
00:15:12,487 --> 00:15:13,740
but actually it's the first time
I've done it.
362
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:16,660
Or yes, I am very rigorous
and I always try and get information.
363
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,599
I sometimes wonder if I should
do more interpretation.
364
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,020
So, that allows the conversation
about being noticed to develop
365
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,359
and evolve into a much better way
than he said, she said.
366
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,330
It's so interesting. It's also quite
a simple swap for people to do,
367
00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:32,954
to move from that kind of direct praise,
"That was great."
368
00:15:33,034 --> 00:15:35,306
Or even criticism, I suppose,
"That wasn't very good",
369
00:15:35,386 --> 00:15:37,070
into something that's actually useful.
370
00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:39,570
People get much more data
for their development
371
00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:41,610
when you're descriptive
about what they're doing,
372
00:15:41,690 --> 00:15:43,840
it's much more powerful.
373
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,630
So, what if I'm the individual
374
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:49,940
and I'm kind of aware of,
we talked about four conditions so far.
375
00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:52,390
And these two, like,
attention and recognition,
376
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:55,890
I'm thinking I don't think
I get enough of that
377
00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:58,430
and my performance
is being affected by it.
378
00:15:58,510 --> 00:16:00,430
What is a sort of simple action
379
00:16:00,510 --> 00:16:05,159
that someone can take to up the dial
on those two contributors?
380
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,279
-We can ask for advice.-Okay.
381
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,243
So, by and large,
we all like being asked for advice.
382
00:16:09,323 --> 00:16:11,280
We're, "Oh, you want my advice?
I must be quite impressive."
383
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,840
So, you go to someone and say,
"Can you give me some advice?
384
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,170
What did I do in that meeting that you
think I could have done differently?
385
00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:19,919
That would have got us
to a better result?"
386
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,810
And they say, "Talk less"
or "Make your points clearer."
387
00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:26,130
You might start with that.
"Can you give me a specific example?"
388
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:28,630
And keep asking for specific examples.
389
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:32,320
And if you ask for specific examples
you'll get descriptive praise.
390
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,599
And with descriptive praise you've got
a chance of knowing what to do with it.
391
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,630
And you can then decide
that person is bound to say that
392
00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:39,570
because they always say,
why isn't there enough data?
393
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:41,810
Or why is there too many pictures
in your charts? You know?
394
00:16:41,890 --> 00:16:44,140
So, you can discount it
because of where they're coming from,
395
00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:46,020
but you don't want to discount it at all.
396
00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:48,210
And therefore,
the more examples people give,
397
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:50,379
the more you'll understand
what they're noticing
398
00:16:50,459 --> 00:16:52,460
and what that tells you about them.
399
00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:56,759
It also helps them become a bit crisper
on their views about you.
400
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,610
So, rather than just saying,
I think you're brilliant or lazy
401
00:16:58,690 --> 00:17:00,120
or whatever it happens to be,
402
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,080
it's actually I've got
to give you examples
403
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,230
and that may alter how
I've interpreted your behaviour,
404
00:17:05,310 --> 00:17:08,160
and therefore I might just see you
a bit more clearly as a result.
405
00:17:08,494 --> 00:17:10,760
I feel like we're getting to some
very powerful actions
406
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,880
and powerful questions through
the course of this conversation
407
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,680
for people to try out.
I love that, the kind of, ask for advice,
408
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,550
and then sort of,
ask for the examples as well,
409
00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:21,106
so you get more of that detail,
more of that description.
410
00:17:21,186 --> 00:17:25,240
So, let's talk about the fifth condition,
which is all about growth.
411
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,079
What does that look like for someone
at work when we're talking about growth?
412
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,982
What it looks like is what can I discover
or pick up in the work that I'm doing
413
00:17:34,062 --> 00:17:38,159
that will help me become
better in the future than I am today.
414
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,050
Now, ideally, we want to focus on things
that were already quite good at
415
00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:43,370
and want to get better at,
or things we're not very good at,
416
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:45,519
but we really want to get good at.
417
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,960
And therefore we're playing
to our strengths.
418
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,500
And what we can do
is start to notice things about
419
00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:54,320
when our skills are
or aren't at their best.
420
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,580
For example, I'm in a contact centre.
I'm speaking to dozens of people a day.
421
00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:00,860
I can start to learn
how to pick up signals
422
00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:05,137
about which of the customers
who most want to get to an answer quickly,
423
00:18:05,217 --> 00:18:06,740
and what are the signals
that they actually want empathy
424
00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:08,200
and understanding first.
425
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,160
And I can try different approaches out,
426
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,279
just altering it slightly
to see what effect it will have.
427
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,170
Rather like a master chef
has a set of recipes in their restaurant,
428
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:19,900
but they're constantly adapting
and changing to say a little bit more salt
429
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:21,870
or leaving it in the pan a bit longer.
430
00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:24,599
Which is it that makes
this recipe really sing?
431
00:18:24,679 --> 00:18:25,690
In the same way, in our roles,
432
00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:28,970
we can find ways to spot
the impact of different approaches
433
00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:32,399
that we're taking and get better
at doing them each time.
434
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,670
So, we start for growth.
The starting point is strengths,
435
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:38,430
and we think, what is something I'm good at
that I want to get better at?
436
00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:40,810
Or what is something that I'm actually
not that good at at the moment,
437
00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:43,040
where I really want to improve.
438
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,260
So, once we've we've got
to that insight,
439
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:47,360
then we move in towards
the getting better.
440
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,319
The stretching, the strength.
441
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,510
So, what should I do if there's a strength
442
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:54,070
that I want to be known for,
I want to use more.
443
00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:57,319
How do I start to stretch it?
What would that look like for me?
444
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,330
I might look at where I'm not having
the results that I want to have,
445
00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:04,530
and then I try and look at either
what other people are doing.
446
00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:07,370
So, someone who's really good at this,
what do they seem to get away with?
447
00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:09,850
And maybe I go and ask them,
you know, you seem to be fantastic
448
00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:12,759
at dealing with unhappy customers.
Imagine we have such a thing.
449
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,830
What do you need to do about that
and how do you respond?
450
00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:18,639
What happens when you have a boss
who seems to take the credit
451
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,359
and pretends that all your work is theirs?
How do you handle that?
452
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,360
And then if you can start
to ask your colleagues
453
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,380
and the more wide-ranging colleagues
you can come to,
454
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,602
the more varied and rich
that advice will be.
455
00:19:30,682 --> 00:19:33,399
But you can start to learn from others
who are doing this thing well,
456
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,600
and then you can have a go at yourself.
457
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,570
Experiment with these things,
sometimes it will go wrong.
458
00:19:36,650 --> 00:19:38,930
Sometimes you'll have what are called
intelligent failures,
459
00:19:39,010 --> 00:19:40,530
where actually you failed at something
460
00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:42,470
that you couldn't have
worked out how to do before.
461
00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:45,639
But because of that, you've learned
how to do it much better in the future.
462
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,550
So, you're constantly in what's
sometimes called a growth mindset.
463
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:49,870
How can I get better?
464
00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:52,230
How can I discover new things
that will help me,
465
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:54,759
and how can I apply those
and keep improving?
466
00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:01,050
And what, in the course of asking myself
those questions, I start to think,
467
00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:05,910
oh, but the things that I want to grow in,
the strengths that I want to stretch,
468
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:09,610
aren't necessarily
what my job needs from me.
469
00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:11,960
So, there's almost like a bit of a tension
between what I want
470
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,470
and what my work needs.
471
00:20:13,550 --> 00:20:17,479
What do I do then, if that might feel like
it's getting in the way of my growth?
472
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,360
So, there are several things
we can do there.
473
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,951
First, we can work out
what are there bits of my job
474
00:20:22,031 --> 00:20:24,600
that will help me get good
at the thing that really matters?
475
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,617
So, I need or want to get really good
at writing in ways that are very clear.
476
00:20:29,697 --> 00:20:31,070
I don't do a lot of writing in my job,
477
00:20:31,150 --> 00:20:32,760
but occasionally I have to write
the odd email,
478
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,490
or I have to write a short report.
479
00:20:34,570 --> 00:20:37,195
How can I make those really good
and use those as moments,
480
00:20:37,275 --> 00:20:39,800
so I can really hone my writing skills?
481
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,610
And then in due course, I might think,
well, actually,
482
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:43,020
let me see if I can find a job.
483
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,650
And the advantage of working
for a big organisation
484
00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:48,350
is there are lots of jobs available
requiring lots of very different skills.
485
00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:52,679
How can I find a role that allows me
to do, in this case, more writing?
486
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,710
Feels more realistic to focus
on growth moments in a week,
487
00:20:57,790 --> 00:21:03,050
rather than to expect growth,
like, every minute to be a growth minute.
488
00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:05,470
Do you think that just trying to spot
those moments in the week,
489
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:07,690
that that's where I'm really
going to stretch that strength,
490
00:21:07,770 --> 00:21:10,679
rather than trying to think this is going
to happen every minute of every day?
491
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,407
I think it's all about our mindset.
492
00:21:12,487 --> 00:21:14,860
So, if you have a few moments in a week,
493
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:16,980
it's a lot better
than no moments in the week.
494
00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:18,930
But actually almost everything
we experience
495
00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:21,210
is an opportunity to learn something new.
496
00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:23,770
We're almost always talking
or connecting with other people,
497
00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,770
and people are infinitely complex.
498
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:29,190
You never master the ability to influence
or master the ability to hear
499
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:32,279
or to understand or to empathise.
You can always get better at that.
500
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:35,390
And these are great signature skills
to have not just at work,
501
00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:37,050
but actually at home as well.
502
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:39,360
Your partner or your children
or your parents might appreciate
503
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600
you being more empathetic
or better at listening,
504
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,520
or whatever else it might happen to be.
505
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,600
So, there are skills we can learn
in everything that we do.
506
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,090
Now, you might find it's a bit exhausting.
You don't want to be constantly learning.
507
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:51,079
You want to have a moment of just doing.
And that's fine as well.
508
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,050
But those opportunities
are almost always there.
509
00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:57,650
And the more we get good at growing
and discovering and learning,
510
00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:59,720
the more likely we are to feel fulfilled,
511
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,240
the more likely we are to actually be
physically healthy and mentally healthy,
512
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,340
and the more likely we are to become
more capable down the road.
513
00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:08,679
So, there's lots of gains from growth.
514
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,511
So, look for the learning and the growth.
515
00:22:11,591 --> 00:22:13,400
-The growth will come.
-Exactly that.
516
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,437
And so, I think this what can I do.
I think this links quite nicely
517
00:22:17,517 --> 00:22:20,599
into the sixth condition
which is around choice.
518
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,990
So, if I'm looking to increase my choices,
I'm in a large organisation
519
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:27,110
and I want to have more choices about,
520
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:29,470
I don't know what I'm working on
and where I'm working,
521
00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:32,879
what helps me
to increase choice in that context?
522
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,590
To focus on the things that I can affect,
523
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:38,030
rather than worry about
the things that I can't.
524
00:22:38,110 --> 00:22:40,990
And these exist whether you work
in a large organisation or a small one,
525
00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:42,370
but you're still part of an ecosystem
526
00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:45,910
where you're dependent on customers
and suppliers and other competitors
527
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:47,092
and all sorts of things.
528
00:22:47,172 --> 00:22:49,639
No one has complete control
of their situation,
529
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,870
with a possible exception of a poet
who sits at the top of their attic
530
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:55,799
and has a candle
and never meets anybody outside.
531
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,630
But pretty much all of us are dependent
on conditions that exist externally,
532
00:22:59,710 --> 00:23:02,480
and we can choose to worry about
the things that we can't affect,
533
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,460
or we can choose to focus
on the things that we can affect.
534
00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:10,100
And in large organisations, there's loads
we can do to build alliances,
535
00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:11,560
to understand what other people are doing
536
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,999
and make sure that our work
connects with them
537
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,420
in order to work out what others
are doing that is successful,
538
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,260
that we can replicate and what others
have gone wrong that hasn't worked,
539
00:23:19,340 --> 00:23:20,479
that we can avoid.
540
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,225
So, there's an enormous amount
we can do to advance
541
00:23:23,305 --> 00:23:26,480
the purpose or the cause, or the nature
of the work that we're doing,
542
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,620
and our job to be at our best
and to feel at our best
543
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:31,400
is to focus on the things we can do
544
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,639
rather than worry
about the things that we can't do.
545
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,820
So, it feels like we're trying to sort of
hold optimism for our opportunities,
546
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,211
rather than feeling like a victim
547
00:23:41,291 --> 00:23:43,919
of the situation
that we find ourselves in?
548
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,190
I'm going to be slightly
psychological about this,
549
00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:47,866
because there's a difference
between optimism
550
00:23:47,946 --> 00:23:50,139
-and what's called locus of control.
-Okay.
551
00:23:50,219 --> 00:23:54,230
So, the locus of control is focusing
on what are the things that I can affect.
552
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:56,800
So, I can't determine
what questions you ask me in this,
553
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,999
but I can choose how I answer them.
554
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,471
So, out of my control
is the questions you ask,
555
00:24:01,551 --> 00:24:03,810
in my control
is the answers that I give.
556
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:08,439
Now, optimism is about whether I see
something as a positive or a negative,
557
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,260
or how I interpret positive
or negative events.
558
00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:14,916
So, an optimist
will interpret a positive event
559
00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:17,319
as universal and permanent.
560
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,520
So, I have cooked this meal,
means I'm always a brilliant cook.
561
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,430
The pessimist will interpret it
the other way round.
562
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:26,840
It's a one-off. I was lucky,
I happened to cook a good chicken,
563
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,759
but it probably won't happen again.
564
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,290
And the reverse is the case.
565
00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:34,010
So, a negative events and optimists
will say, this is temporary and specific.
566
00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:35,799
I just happened
to get it wrong this time.
567
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,930
Whereas a pessimist would go,
"Typical. I can never do this.
568
00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:39,698
I'm completely hopeless."
569
00:24:39,778 --> 00:24:41,870
Now, with optimism and pessimism,
570
00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:45,500
it is not the case that one is better
than the other all the time.
571
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:49,760
So, optimists live longer,
achieve more, and are happier.
572
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,133
But they're also wrong more often.
573
00:24:52,213 --> 00:24:54,650
So, you want to get the right balance
to be flexible
574
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:57,639
about when you're an optimist
and when you're a pessimist.
575
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,020
So, we've talked through
the six conditions now,
576
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:01,660
and I think in the course
of the conversation
577
00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:04,525
we've covered lots of different questions
people can ask themselves,
578
00:25:04,605 --> 00:25:06,480
some really interesting bits of research,
579
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,070
which are definitely
going to stick with me,
580
00:25:08,150 --> 00:25:10,091
and also some actions people can take.
581
00:25:10,171 --> 00:25:16,750
But if you are going to pull this together
into three powerful actions that anyone,
582
00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:21,020
anyone could take away, regardless of sort
of what condition they're starting with,
583
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:22,919
what would you suggest for people?
584
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,590
Number one is concentrate
on what you can do
585
00:25:25,671 --> 00:25:27,770
rather than worrying about
what you can't affect.
586
00:25:27,850 --> 00:25:30,580
And there are always things you can do
to improve the situation.
587
00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:33,479
So, focus on where
you can make a difference.
588
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,640
Number two is alter your time horizon.
So, you're thinking slightly further out.
589
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,490
That way you'll get
less buffeted by events.
590
00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:42,877
You'll probably get less stressed,
you're more likely to learn,
591
00:25:42,957 --> 00:25:45,480
and you're much more likely to feel
a sense of accomplishment.
592
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,870
So, work out where do you want to be
in six months time or 12 months time,
593
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:52,219
rather than six minutes,
six hours or even six days.
594
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,470
And the third is build a community
that you can draw on
595
00:25:55,550 --> 00:25:56,690
and listen to and learn from.
596
00:25:56,770 --> 00:25:59,360
And the more diverse
that community is, the better.
597
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,370
So, we tend to go
to the same types of people for advice.
598
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:04,780
They tend to be at roughly
the same stage in life,
599
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:06,360
possibly the same educational background.
600
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,120
If we went to university,
they probably did as well.
601
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200
They may even have studied
the same subject.
602
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,360
This creates a kind of more static view
and perspective than we will get
603
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,920
if we get to a wide range of people,
people who are much younger or much older,
604
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,770
people who come from
very different academic
605
00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:22,310
or professional backgrounds,
who do different disciplines.
606
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:24,710
And one of the joys
of being in a great bank
607
00:26:24,790 --> 00:26:27,120
is there are multiple,
very different people out there.
608
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,199
It's up to us to make the effort
to get to know them.
609
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,760
So, three specific actions to help
people power up their performance.
610
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,650
First, ask what I can do.
Second, look further out into the future.
611
00:26:38,730 --> 00:26:42,279
And third, create a more diverse
community around your work.
612
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,430
-Yes.
-Brilliant.
613
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:45,170
Well, hopefully
that is useful for everyone.
614
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:46,420
It's definitely useful for me.
615
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:48,959
I'm definitely taking
some of that advice away from today.
616
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,297
Thank you so much
for the conversation today, Octavius.
617
00:26:52,377 --> 00:26:55,071
Before we let you go,
in our next episode,
618
00:26:55,151 --> 00:26:57,060
we're going to be talking about
the topic of feedback,
619
00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:59,810
which obviously we started
in today's conversation,
620
00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:02,220
but I just wondered for you
and your feedback,
621
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,799
what is the most powerful piece
of feedback you've had in your career?
622
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,760
I'll give you the worst.
And then also the best.
623
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,860
So, before I started professional work,
624
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:13,580
I was a journalist
and I worked on restaurant reviews
625
00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:16,959
and travel articles for magazines.
It was enormous fun.
626
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,360
And I remember submitting this article
to an editor and she said,
627
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,850
hm, I think it needs more zhuzh.
And I was just like, totally crestfallen.
628
00:27:25,930 --> 00:27:28,110
I had no idea what that meant
or what to do with it,
629
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:31,720
or where even to start,
so, that was really unhelpful feedback.
630
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,630
But another time an editor said to me,
631
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:37,810
he said, I read your your articles
and they're broadly very good,
632
00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:41,639
but your first paragraph always takes
too long to get into the topic
633
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,050
and you seems indulgent, and it's
for your own writing yourself into it.
634
00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:48,060
So, I would just edit out,
cut your first paragraph
635
00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:49,980
and go straight to the second paragraph.
636
00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:52,100
And that I always found
very useful feedback.
637
00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:53,860
Sometimes the most powerful feedback
you get
638
00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:56,380
is the stuff
that you can't see for yourself,
639
00:27:56,460 --> 00:27:58,380
and asking those people
that you trust to give you
640
00:27:58,460 --> 00:28:00,720
that insight is very useful
for your development.
641
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,919
It was also very descriptive.
642
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,959
-Yes!
-Okay, I can totally get it.
643
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,046
I love the first paragraph.
I spent ages conjuring the words
644
00:28:07,126 --> 00:28:09,800
to make it delicious,
and clever, and so whatever.
645
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,830
And it was just totally for me.
It wasn't for the reader.
646
00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:13,920
And therefore getting that
was incredibly helpful.
647
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,520
Thank you so much for your time
and sharing that with us today.
648
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,603
My pleasure.
00:00:02,271 --> 00:00:05,760
What are the conditions
when I perform at my best?
2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:07,410
And there are many conditions that apply,
3
00:00:07,490 --> 00:00:10,750
but these six have
disproportionately greater impact.
4
00:00:10,830 --> 00:00:13,084
And they are, in no particular order,
5
00:00:13,164 --> 00:00:17,959
purpose, challenge,
attention, growth, recognition.
6
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,519
And the sixth is choice.
7
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,914
Are all of those six conditions
8
00:00:21,994 --> 00:00:23,890
equally important
for people's performance,
9
00:00:23,970 --> 00:00:26,519
or does one of them
take priority over the others?
10
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,240
All of them are tremendously important.
11
00:00:30,173 --> 00:00:31,322
Hi, I'm Helen Tupper,
12
00:00:31,402 --> 00:00:34,148
the host of HSBC's Power Up podcast,
13
00:00:34,228 --> 00:00:38,362
a podcast that is all about
helping people to perform at their best.
14
00:00:38,442 --> 00:00:41,562
HSBC has spent
the past few years transforming.
15
00:00:41,642 --> 00:00:43,912
Its got a plan and it's performing well.
16
00:00:43,992 --> 00:00:47,292
The opportunity now is to sustain
and grow that performance,
17
00:00:47,372 --> 00:00:50,252
and that is what
this podcast is all about.
18
00:00:50,332 --> 00:00:52,512
We're going to be hearing
from lots of different people
19
00:00:52,592 --> 00:00:54,753
about what performance means to them,
20
00:00:54,833 --> 00:00:56,950
gaining ideas and fresh perspectives
21
00:00:57,030 --> 00:00:59,441
that can help us be
at our best in our work.
22
00:00:59,522 --> 00:01:01,612
In today's podcast,
we're going to be talking about
23
00:01:01,692 --> 00:01:03,822
how you can power up your performance,
24
00:01:03,902 --> 00:01:07,472
and we'll be learning from Octavius Black,
the founder of Mind Gym,
25
00:01:07,552 --> 00:01:10,222
an organisation
that uses behavioural science
26
00:01:10,302 --> 00:01:13,872
to influence people's performance
and impact in their roles.
27
00:01:13,952 --> 00:01:16,192
We're going to be talking
about the six different things
28
00:01:16,273 --> 00:01:19,083
that you can do
to nail your performance at work.
29
00:01:20,587 --> 00:01:22,880
Octavius, welcome to the Power Up podcast.
30
00:01:22,961 --> 00:01:24,879
Thank you very much, Helen.
Delighted to be here.
31
00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,100
Brilliant to have you here
as our first guest on the series.
32
00:01:28,180 --> 00:01:31,599
I wonder if we can kick things off with
what is powering you up at the moment.
33
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,930
What powers me up today and every day
34
00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:36,119
is trying to change the way
the world thinks.
35
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,230
Amazing. And I know today we're going
to be talking about one of the insights
36
00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:42,390
that you've had during that time,
37
00:01:42,470 --> 00:01:45,690
which is about the factors
that contribute towards performance,
38
00:01:45,770 --> 00:01:48,140
which is the focus of today's episode.
39
00:01:48,220 --> 00:01:51,191
So, there are six conditions, I think,
that have come from your research,
40
00:01:51,271 --> 00:01:55,200
which are the most important influences
over people's performance.
41
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,997
I wonder if you can just
give us an insight
42
00:01:57,077 --> 00:01:58,451
into what those six conditions are,
43
00:01:58,531 --> 00:02:00,763
and then we'll dive a bit deeper into
44
00:02:00,843 --> 00:02:03,639
how we can use them
to inform our own career.
45
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,553
Absolutely. These come from
an enormous amount of research,
46
00:02:06,633 --> 00:02:08,060
not just done by us.
47
00:02:08,140 --> 00:02:10,820
We did the meta analysis
of decades of research
48
00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:14,639
into what are the conditions
when I perform at my best.
49
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,290
And there are many conditions that apply,
50
00:02:16,370 --> 00:02:19,630
but these six have
disproportionately greater impact.
51
00:02:19,710 --> 00:02:21,959
And they are, in no particular order,
52
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,167
purpose, so,
feeling that my work matters,
53
00:02:24,247 --> 00:02:26,559
or at the very least,
it wasn't irrelevant.
54
00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:27,670
Challenge.
55
00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:31,190
Feeling that I'm stretched to try and do
something that plays to my strengths.
56
00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:33,303
I can't quite see how to get there,
57
00:02:33,383 --> 00:02:35,119
but I'm sure there's a way.
58
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,150
Attention - being noticed.
59
00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:38,125
It's very important for all of us
60
00:02:38,205 --> 00:02:41,055
to feel that other people have seen
or recognised what we're doing,
61
00:02:41,135 --> 00:02:42,270
and indeed what we're not doing,
62
00:02:42,350 --> 00:02:45,439
and being able to record that
and let us know.
63
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,399
Growth.
64
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,330
Really important part
of the essence of our human nature
65
00:02:50,410 --> 00:02:53,119
is to want to grow
and get better and progress.
66
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,219
There are three virtual racing certainties
67
00:02:56,299 --> 00:02:58,370
that improve our level of happiness.
68
00:02:58,450 --> 00:03:00,160
One is listening to music we like.
69
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,780
One is being with people
who make us feel good,
70
00:03:02,860 --> 00:03:04,782
and the third is learning or growth.
71
00:03:04,862 --> 00:03:06,639
So, this is really important.
72
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,250
The fifth is recognition,
73
00:03:09,330 --> 00:03:12,490
feeling appreciated for what
we've done or what we've achieved.
74
00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:14,422
And the sixth is choice,
75
00:03:14,502 --> 00:03:17,100
feeling that I have
a sense of control over my destiny,
76
00:03:17,180 --> 00:03:18,758
that I can make things happen
77
00:03:18,838 --> 00:03:21,920
and decide what to do
that will affect the outcome.
78
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,297
Are all of those six conditions
79
00:03:24,377 --> 00:03:26,290
equally important
for people's performance,
80
00:03:26,370 --> 00:03:28,919
or does one of them
take priority over the others?
81
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,847
All of them are tremendously important.
82
00:03:30,927 --> 00:03:32,570
For individuals in different times
83
00:03:32,650 --> 00:03:34,460
there may be a different
weighting between them,
84
00:03:34,540 --> 00:03:36,479
but you don't want to let
any of them lapse.
85
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,066
And what's exciting about them
86
00:03:38,146 --> 00:03:40,600
is it's not just about
the manager or the leader.
87
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,530
It's as much us as individuals.
88
00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:45,880
There's a legal phrase called
jointly and severally responsible,
89
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,320
and we've slightly borrowed that
for these six conditions.
90
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,640
So, we're all jointly
and severally responsible
91
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,120
for creating these conditions
across the bank.
92
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,144
And so, intuitively,
93
00:03:55,224 --> 00:03:57,860
I kind of, I guess,
I get that growth is important
94
00:03:57,940 --> 00:03:59,360
and I understand purpose
95
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,055
because we often talk about purpose
96
00:04:01,135 --> 00:04:02,460
and an organisation's purpose.
97
00:04:02,540 --> 00:04:05,387
But I think it would be good to dive into
98
00:04:05,467 --> 00:04:08,100
practically at an individual level,
99
00:04:08,180 --> 00:04:10,910
how do I and someone listening,
100
00:04:10,990 --> 00:04:13,099
take those six conditions
101
00:04:13,179 --> 00:04:15,066
and sort of add them into my work?
102
00:04:15,146 --> 00:04:17,810
Like, what am I going to do
differently on a day-to-day basis,
103
00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:21,190
so I get performance
from investing in those areas?
104
00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:22,619
So, let's take each one in turn
105
00:04:22,699 --> 00:04:24,269
and explore it a bit more deeply.
106
00:04:24,349 --> 00:04:26,051
Starting with the one that I think
107
00:04:26,131 --> 00:04:28,060
can come across as the biggest
108
00:04:28,140 --> 00:04:31,129
and maybe hardest to know what to do with
109
00:04:31,209 --> 00:04:32,460
on a day-to-day basis,
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00:04:32,540 --> 00:04:34,420
which is purpose.
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00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:36,295
So, what does that mean
112
00:04:36,375 --> 00:04:38,090
for someone at an individual level
113
00:04:38,170 --> 00:04:40,199
on an average day at work?
114
00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,350
It's a great question.
And what matters most of all,
115
00:04:42,430 --> 00:04:46,100
like news, is local purpose
or personal purpose.
116
00:04:46,180 --> 00:04:48,350
I'm going to look at this in two ways.
117
00:04:48,430 --> 00:04:50,503
The first is thinking, who benefits
118
00:04:50,583 --> 00:04:52,557
from the work that I am doing.
119
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,120
So, as a result of getting the language
better in the application for a loan,
120
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,763
maybe a business founder
is able to raise the money sooner
121
00:05:00,843 --> 00:05:02,858
and get the business off the ground.
And if I hadn't done that,
122
00:05:02,938 --> 00:05:04,020
they'd have had to have 2 or 3 goes
123
00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,120
and it would have been
too late for them to start.
124
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,040
Or maybe an individual is able
to get a savings product
125
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,806
that they would never otherwise have got,
126
00:05:10,886 --> 00:05:12,740
because they've discovered
that they're eligible for it.
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00:05:12,820 --> 00:05:15,559
So, I can start to see the benefit
that someone's getting.
128
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,061
And we know that the best days we have
129
00:05:18,141 --> 00:05:19,544
are those where we've made progress
130
00:05:19,624 --> 00:05:21,311
towards helping somebody else
131
00:05:21,391 --> 00:05:24,030
achieve something
that wasn't the case without us.
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00:05:24,110 --> 00:05:26,670
Now it might be a customer,
as the examples I've given here,
133
00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:29,740
or it could be someone internally
or a collective effort.
134
00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:32,940
But what we've done has created
something bigger and better
135
00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:34,680
that someone else gains from.
136
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,050
So, that's one stage and one way
we can think about purpose.
137
00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:41,836
But the other bit is simply thinking
that my work is not irrelevant.
138
00:05:41,916 --> 00:05:43,600
Now, that might sound irreverent,
139
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,239
but it has a purpose to it as well.
140
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,740
And I'll give you an example
from a famous psychology professor
141
00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:52,246
who asked doctors
and hospital janitors or cleaners
142
00:05:52,326 --> 00:05:55,650
to organise their work
between three different categories.
143
00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:57,160
Did they see it as a job?
144
00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:58,720
Did they see it as a career,
145
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,119
or do they see it
as a calling with noble purpose?
146
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,190
And what people often suspect
is that the doctors were more likely
147
00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:06,810
to see their work as a calling,
148
00:06:06,890 --> 00:06:09,620
and the hospital janitors more likely
to see their work as a job.
149
00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:11,399
-Yeah.
-That would be wrong.
150
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:12,997
Oh, tell us more.
151
00:06:13,077 --> 00:06:13,890
What was really interesting
152
00:06:13,971 --> 00:06:16,960
is the results for the two
were exactly the same.
153
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,776
And it was a third, a third, a third.
154
00:06:19,856 --> 00:06:21,600
So, allocated a third to it being a job,
155
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,840
a third to it being a career
and a third to it being a calling.
156
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,350
And what was so interesting
is she also repeated this research
157
00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:28,623
with other professions
158
00:06:28,703 --> 00:06:31,079
and found pretty much the same results.
159
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,040
So, what that suggests is the degree
to which we see our work as purpose-driven
160
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,954
or about making impact and mattering
161
00:06:37,034 --> 00:06:39,420
isn't a factor
of what the nature of the work is.
162
00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:41,320
It's a factor of the nature of who we are
163
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,279
and how we choose to think.
164
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,100
I really like that because I think
sometimes we make purpose
165
00:06:46,180 --> 00:06:50,067
this aspirational and maybe slightly
unattainable thing
166
00:06:50,147 --> 00:06:52,020
for everybody to have.
167
00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:53,684
But just starting with that question of
168
00:06:53,764 --> 00:06:55,810
who benefits from my work today
169
00:06:55,890 --> 00:06:57,789
just makes it feel much more,
170
00:06:57,869 --> 00:07:00,217
much more real
and much more something that,
171
00:07:00,297 --> 00:07:02,799
you know, I and people listening
can ask themselves.
172
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,190
So, reminding ourselves
of why what we're doing matters
173
00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:06,750
and who benefits as a result
174
00:07:06,830 --> 00:07:10,020
not only is good for our overall
wellbeing and happiness,
175
00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:11,959
but has an enormous impact
on our performance.
176
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,830
It makes me think, you know,
purpose is a prime of your performance.
177
00:07:14,910 --> 00:07:18,190
If you started your week
with that question in mind,
178
00:07:18,270 --> 00:07:21,700
what the impact over the week
on your performance could be,
179
00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:23,580
versus somebody who just,
180
00:07:23,660 --> 00:07:25,540
you know, just continues
with a day-to-day,
181
00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:28,359
slightly more kind of operating
on autopilot, I suppose.
182
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,670
Exactly that, and not only
at the beginning of the week,
183
00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:33,490
but at the beginning of every day
or several times a day.
184
00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:35,580
And the other thing we can do
is not only do it for ourselves,
185
00:07:35,660 --> 00:07:37,490
but we can do it for our colleagues.
186
00:07:37,570 --> 00:07:40,200
So, Helen, I really thank you
for that research you gave me.
187
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,497
I didn't put it in my report,
188
00:07:41,577 --> 00:07:43,192
but it got me thinking differently
189
00:07:43,272 --> 00:07:45,400
in a way
I'd never have got there without it.
190
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,680
And suddenly you think, huh?
That was worthwhile!
191
00:07:48,181 --> 00:07:49,642
as opposed to, you give me the research,
192
00:07:49,722 --> 00:07:51,519
you see then my presentation,
193
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,375
it's not mentioned in there. You think,
well, that was a waste of time, wasn't it?
194
00:07:54,455 --> 00:07:57,460
So, there's lots we can do individually
to help each other see purpose
195
00:07:57,540 --> 00:07:58,919
as well as to help ourselves.
196
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,550
So, let's move on to another one
of the conditions that you mentioned,
197
00:08:02,630 --> 00:08:04,288
which was challenge.
198
00:08:04,368 --> 00:08:05,860
And I'm really intrigued by this,
199
00:08:05,940 --> 00:08:08,599
I think because I'm so attracted
to the idea of challenge.
200
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,063
But I wanted to get your perspective
of what what does the research,
201
00:08:12,143 --> 00:08:15,230
your research tell us
about challenge at work?
202
00:08:15,310 --> 00:08:16,990
And then I have another question
in my mind
203
00:08:17,070 --> 00:08:20,879
about how do we get to the right challenge
for different people?
204
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,601
So, the great thing about a challenge
205
00:08:22,681 --> 00:08:25,320
is you want it to be difficult,
just out of sight,
206
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,090
-but not impossible.
-Okay.
207
00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:29,490
And that, of course, isn't necessarily
about the challenge itself.
208
00:08:29,570 --> 00:08:31,319
It's about how you choose to see it.
209
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,790
Now, one of the challenges that we have
in organisations with challenge
210
00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:38,000
is that you can want to be global,
those challenges,
211
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,180
in order that we get approved
of afterwards.
212
00:08:40,260 --> 00:08:42,010
So, if I set a really low expectation,
213
00:08:42,090 --> 00:08:43,820
oh, Helen,
this is going to be so difficult.
214
00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:46,245
You've got no idea.
The market's horrible...
215
00:08:46,325 --> 00:08:49,440
And I convince you, as my manager,
to give me a low-ball goal,
216
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,670
I'm more likely to have achieved it
by the end of the year
217
00:08:51,750 --> 00:08:53,315
and get some credit for that.
218
00:08:53,395 --> 00:08:55,930
But actually it would be psychologically
a lot less satisfying
219
00:08:56,010 --> 00:08:58,039
and I will perform a lot worse.
220
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,320
I'll give you an example
of an experiment.
221
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,240
So, they took two groups of households
222
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,570
and they encouraged them
to improve energy efficiency.
223
00:09:04,651 --> 00:09:07,881
This was a group of psychologists who are
always doing mean experiments like this.
224
00:09:08,388 --> 00:09:12,439
And they got one group to have
the goal of 20% energy improvement.
225
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,680
And they really worked hard
to get the 20% energy improvement,
226
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,920
but they only got to about 15%,
227
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,804
which in old-fashioned
performance management was like,
228
00:09:18,884 --> 00:09:21,977
I'm afraid you've missed out.
You're going on a plan not so good.
229
00:09:22,058 --> 00:09:26,680
The other group had a 2% goal.
They got an average 6%.
230
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,679
Congratulations! You've trebled your goal!
What a great job!
231
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,660
But of course, you're much better off
with the people with the 15% improvement
232
00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:34,800
than you are with the 6% improvement.
233
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,460
So, what that tells us is we're better off
having stretching goals,
234
00:09:37,540 --> 00:09:40,473
some of which we don't achieve
but will perform better
235
00:09:40,553 --> 00:09:42,410
than lowballing those goals,
exceeding them,
236
00:09:42,490 --> 00:09:44,560
but not stretching ourselves
nearly far enough.
237
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,890
And so how important is it to be able
to see how far you've stretched almost to,
238
00:09:49,970 --> 00:09:53,920
to sort of take stock
of the successes along the way?
239
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,180
It's really important.
240
00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:57,447
And this comes under
one of the other conditions,
241
00:09:57,527 --> 00:09:59,885
which is recognition
and being appreciated
242
00:09:59,965 --> 00:10:02,799
or appreciating yourself
for what you've achieved.
243
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,980
So, the key is not to dismiss
those achievements
244
00:10:05,060 --> 00:10:08,140
because they're really important,
but not to harbour on them forever,
245
00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:10,250
because otherwise you won't be on
to the next achievement,
246
00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:12,200
the next challenge down the road.
247
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,590
So, it's really important
to find out in yourself to say,
248
00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:17,830
what have I done that I'm really proud of,
and what can I learn from that?
249
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:20,443
And I can repeat and apply elsewhere?
250
00:10:20,523 --> 00:10:22,690
And what are the things
I could have done a bit differently,
251
00:10:22,770 --> 00:10:25,039
and how might I apply those in the future?
252
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,510
So, in terms of recognition,
let's stay with that condition.
253
00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:31,240
So, part of this is about
my own reflections
254
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,546
on what I have done well
and what I have achieved.
255
00:10:35,626 --> 00:10:38,670
Are we also seeking recognition
from other people
256
00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:40,679
in order to support
our performance as well?
257
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,213
-I think we're doing both.
-Okay.
258
00:10:42,293 --> 00:10:45,290
In psychological terms,
there are two kinds of a motivation.
259
00:10:45,370 --> 00:10:47,850
There's intrinsic and extrinsic.
260
00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:49,908
So, intrinsic are things
you draw from yourself.
261
00:10:49,989 --> 00:10:51,410
I'm pretty proud of myself.
262
00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:54,110
I love that experience
or that gave me pleasure.
263
00:10:54,190 --> 00:10:55,890
An extrinsic are the ones
that come from outside,
264
00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:58,160
you know, my boss or my colleague
or my partner told me
265
00:10:58,241 --> 00:11:01,161
I was wonderful or terrible
or whatever it happens to be.
266
00:11:01,447 --> 00:11:05,200
The more we can draw intrinsically
from our motivations,
267
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,110
the happier we're likely to be.
The less stressed we're likely to be,
268
00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:10,460
the more we're likely
to persist and sustain.
269
00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:13,100
But it's really hard to do
because we're so conditioned
270
00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:15,439
to want approval
from other people outside.
271
00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,020
So, recognising
there is this balance here,
272
00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,990
I encourage us as much as possible
to look for intrinsic motivations
273
00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,880
and recognising what you're proud of
and being: "That's good enough"
274
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,286
rather than relying
on other people's approval.
275
00:11:28,366 --> 00:11:29,890
But there are times you want
other people's approval,
276
00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:32,870
and particularly a manager
or the boss of the manager,
277
00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:35,740
you may want to be recognised
or appreciated for what you've done,
278
00:11:35,820 --> 00:11:38,020
and they're the most important thing
is to be perceived
279
00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:40,210
that you've been fairly recognised.
280
00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:42,973
You haven't got away with slacking off
and not being noticed,
281
00:11:43,053 --> 00:11:45,380
but you also haven't have
achieved something significant
282
00:11:45,460 --> 00:11:48,570
and therefore not being
appreciated for it.
283
00:11:48,650 --> 00:11:51,070
And so, if I come on to another condition,
284
00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:55,120
one of the things that's really important
is attention, being noticed.
285
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,830
So, if you feel you have not been
fairly recognised, then go ask.
286
00:11:59,910 --> 00:12:02,520
You know, I felt that I'd done
a great job on this
287
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,680
and you hadn't really appreciated it.
And so-and-so hadn't done such a good job,
288
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,970
and they got lots of credit for it.
What's up here?
289
00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:10,599
And you may find you've missed a point.
290
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,870
You know, the other person actually had
a more complex environment to navigate.
291
00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:16,230
They had to build tougher coalitions
292
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:18,940
and therefore that's why they've been
recognised for their achievement.
293
00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:21,120
Or it may be the person
just didn't notice what you'd done.
294
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,760
And now they do.
295
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,250
So, there's a very valuable part
in being noticed,
296
00:12:25,330 --> 00:12:27,950
which obviously we'd love other people
to do of their own volition.
297
00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:30,399
But if they don't, let's tell them.
298
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,490
I think that's a really interesting
relationship between recognition,
299
00:12:34,571 --> 00:12:37,020
so, what I can do for myself
and what I might want from other people,
300
00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:39,740
like you mentioned, manager in particular,
301
00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:42,900
and then also attention like kind of
asking for the feedback
302
00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:45,439
that's going to help me
with my performance.
303
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,230
If we were to look at that
from two different angles,
304
00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:52,039
so, how can managers support maybe
with feedback and then also recognition
305
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,750
and then me as an individual,
what could I do myself
306
00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:57,270
if we were to sort of break
that into a couple of actions?
307
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:59,800
What do you think managers
can do in those areas
308
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,120
to help people with their performance?
309
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,430
Well, the most important thing
managers can do,
310
00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:06,400
and we can also ask for it ourselves,
311
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,399
is to use what's called
descriptive praise.
312
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,167
-Okay.
-So, when you actually notice
313
00:13:10,247 --> 00:13:11,530
what someone did,
314
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,616
rather than telling them
they're brilliant or terrible
315
00:13:13,696 --> 00:13:16,040
or genius or lazy
or whatever it happens to be,
316
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,420
which is pretty useless
whether it's positive or negative,
317
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:20,479
you have no idea
what effect it's going to have.
318
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,000
But if you describe what happens,
319
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,719
then someone is much more likely to know
what to do as a result of it.
320
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,059
-Okay.
-They did this very interesting experiment
321
00:13:28,139 --> 00:13:33,260
with kids, and they asked kids
to draw a picture with their hand,
322
00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:36,543
invisible picture with the hand
of a tractor in a field.
323
00:13:36,623 --> 00:13:37,820
Now, obviously, because it was invisible
324
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:39,520
and you were just making it up
as you went along,
325
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,439
you couldn't tell if it was good or bad.
326
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,353
But to both groups, they said,
327
00:13:43,433 --> 00:13:45,090
to the first group,
they said, this is brilliant.
328
00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:47,493
What a fantastic drawing!
You're doing really well.
329
00:13:47,573 --> 00:13:49,210
And the second group,
they described what was happening.
330
00:13:49,290 --> 00:13:51,480
Oh, is that the sun?
Are you drawing a fence there?
331
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,980
Is that the tractor wheel?
Is that the hay and the field?
332
00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:57,440
So, they just described
what was happening.
333
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,850
Then for the second time, they had a go
at doing a different exercise,
334
00:13:59,930 --> 00:14:03,064
drawing something else, house on the hill
or whatever it happened to be.
335
00:14:03,144 --> 00:14:06,680
They said, oh my gosh, that's terrible.
You're making a real mess of this.
336
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,780
What kind of drawing is that?
That's... oh no, surely not!
337
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:13,160
Now, the first group had been told
how brilliant they were,
338
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,670
stopped much sooner and gave up.
339
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:18,870
Then the second group, who'd had
the descriptive praise beforehand
340
00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:21,279
and therefore knew
what good looked like.
341
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,680
So, there's something very powerful
about describing
342
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,301
what someone's doing
that helps build resilience,
343
00:14:26,381 --> 00:14:28,700
because we know what to do better.
344
00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:31,040
So therefore, as a manager,
instead of saying,
345
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,270
you did a great presentation,
you might say,
346
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:35,639
I noticed you had sources
in all of your charts.
347
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,190
Or I noticed that when the CEO asked you
a question, you asked a question back.
348
00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:42,400
And then separately,
you can say what that means to me.
349
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,669
So, I notice
you put sources on your charts.
350
00:14:44,749 --> 00:14:46,314
That tells me you're very rigorous.
351
00:14:46,394 --> 00:14:49,680
That suggests to me you've done a lot
of research to support this presentation.
352
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,300
Or you asked the CEO a question first.
353
00:14:52,380 --> 00:14:54,719
Suggest to me you're willing
to speak truth to power,
354
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,420
or you're willing
not to take something at face value
355
00:14:56,500 --> 00:14:58,910
because someone in authority
tells it to you.
356
00:14:58,990 --> 00:15:02,460
Now, on the receiving end of that,
I can disagree with the information.
357
00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:04,160
I can say,
there weren't sources in all my charts,
358
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,760
or actually it was a statement,
not a question. But that's quite unlikely.
359
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,679
But then I can debate about
the interpretation of it.
360
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,407
You know, I know you think
I'm very rigorous,
361
00:15:12,487 --> 00:15:13,740
but actually it's the first time
I've done it.
362
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:16,660
Or yes, I am very rigorous
and I always try and get information.
363
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,599
I sometimes wonder if I should
do more interpretation.
364
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,020
So, that allows the conversation
about being noticed to develop
365
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,359
and evolve into a much better way
than he said, she said.
366
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,330
It's so interesting. It's also quite
a simple swap for people to do,
367
00:15:29,410 --> 00:15:32,954
to move from that kind of direct praise,
"That was great."
368
00:15:33,034 --> 00:15:35,306
Or even criticism, I suppose,
"That wasn't very good",
369
00:15:35,386 --> 00:15:37,070
into something that's actually useful.
370
00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:39,570
People get much more data
for their development
371
00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:41,610
when you're descriptive
about what they're doing,
372
00:15:41,690 --> 00:15:43,840
it's much more powerful.
373
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,630
So, what if I'm the individual
374
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:49,940
and I'm kind of aware of,
we talked about four conditions so far.
375
00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:52,390
And these two, like,
attention and recognition,
376
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:55,890
I'm thinking I don't think
I get enough of that
377
00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:58,430
and my performance
is being affected by it.
378
00:15:58,510 --> 00:16:00,430
What is a sort of simple action
379
00:16:00,510 --> 00:16:05,159
that someone can take to up the dial
on those two contributors?
380
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,279
-We can ask for advice.-Okay.
381
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,243
So, by and large,
we all like being asked for advice.
382
00:16:09,323 --> 00:16:11,280
We're, "Oh, you want my advice?
I must be quite impressive."
383
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,840
So, you go to someone and say,
"Can you give me some advice?
384
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,170
What did I do in that meeting that you
think I could have done differently?
385
00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:19,919
That would have got us
to a better result?"
386
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,810
And they say, "Talk less"
or "Make your points clearer."
387
00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:26,130
You might start with that.
"Can you give me a specific example?"
388
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:28,630
And keep asking for specific examples.
389
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:32,320
And if you ask for specific examples
you'll get descriptive praise.
390
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,599
And with descriptive praise you've got
a chance of knowing what to do with it.
391
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,630
And you can then decide
that person is bound to say that
392
00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:39,570
because they always say,
why isn't there enough data?
393
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:41,810
Or why is there too many pictures
in your charts? You know?
394
00:16:41,890 --> 00:16:44,140
So, you can discount it
because of where they're coming from,
395
00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:46,020
but you don't want to discount it at all.
396
00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:48,210
And therefore,
the more examples people give,
397
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:50,379
the more you'll understand
what they're noticing
398
00:16:50,459 --> 00:16:52,460
and what that tells you about them.
399
00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:56,759
It also helps them become a bit crisper
on their views about you.
400
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,610
So, rather than just saying,
I think you're brilliant or lazy
401
00:16:58,690 --> 00:17:00,120
or whatever it happens to be,
402
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,080
it's actually I've got
to give you examples
403
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,230
and that may alter how
I've interpreted your behaviour,
404
00:17:05,310 --> 00:17:08,160
and therefore I might just see you
a bit more clearly as a result.
405
00:17:08,494 --> 00:17:10,760
I feel like we're getting to some
very powerful actions
406
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,880
and powerful questions through
the course of this conversation
407
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,680
for people to try out.
I love that, the kind of, ask for advice,
408
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,550
and then sort of,
ask for the examples as well,
409
00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:21,106
so you get more of that detail,
more of that description.
410
00:17:21,186 --> 00:17:25,240
So, let's talk about the fifth condition,
which is all about growth.
411
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,079
What does that look like for someone
at work when we're talking about growth?
412
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,982
What it looks like is what can I discover
or pick up in the work that I'm doing
413
00:17:34,062 --> 00:17:38,159
that will help me become
better in the future than I am today.
414
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,050
Now, ideally, we want to focus on things
that were already quite good at
415
00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:43,370
and want to get better at,
or things we're not very good at,
416
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:45,519
but we really want to get good at.
417
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,960
And therefore we're playing
to our strengths.
418
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,500
And what we can do
is start to notice things about
419
00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:54,320
when our skills are
or aren't at their best.
420
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,580
For example, I'm in a contact centre.
I'm speaking to dozens of people a day.
421
00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:00,860
I can start to learn
how to pick up signals
422
00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:05,137
about which of the customers
who most want to get to an answer quickly,
423
00:18:05,217 --> 00:18:06,740
and what are the signals
that they actually want empathy
424
00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:08,200
and understanding first.
425
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,160
And I can try different approaches out,
426
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,279
just altering it slightly
to see what effect it will have.
427
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,170
Rather like a master chef
has a set of recipes in their restaurant,
428
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:19,900
but they're constantly adapting
and changing to say a little bit more salt
429
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:21,870
or leaving it in the pan a bit longer.
430
00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:24,599
Which is it that makes
this recipe really sing?
431
00:18:24,679 --> 00:18:25,690
In the same way, in our roles,
432
00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:28,970
we can find ways to spot
the impact of different approaches
433
00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:32,399
that we're taking and get better
at doing them each time.
434
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,670
So, we start for growth.
The starting point is strengths,
435
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:38,430
and we think, what is something I'm good at
that I want to get better at?
436
00:18:38,510 --> 00:18:40,810
Or what is something that I'm actually
not that good at at the moment,
437
00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:43,040
where I really want to improve.
438
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,260
So, once we've we've got
to that insight,
439
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:47,360
then we move in towards
the getting better.
440
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,319
The stretching, the strength.
441
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,510
So, what should I do if there's a strength
442
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:54,070
that I want to be known for,
I want to use more.
443
00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:57,319
How do I start to stretch it?
What would that look like for me?
444
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,330
I might look at where I'm not having
the results that I want to have,
445
00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:04,530
and then I try and look at either
what other people are doing.
446
00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:07,370
So, someone who's really good at this,
what do they seem to get away with?
447
00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:09,850
And maybe I go and ask them,
you know, you seem to be fantastic
448
00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:12,759
at dealing with unhappy customers.
Imagine we have such a thing.
449
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,830
What do you need to do about that
and how do you respond?
450
00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:18,639
What happens when you have a boss
who seems to take the credit
451
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,359
and pretends that all your work is theirs?
How do you handle that?
452
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,360
And then if you can start
to ask your colleagues
453
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,380
and the more wide-ranging colleagues
you can come to,
454
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,602
the more varied and rich
that advice will be.
455
00:19:30,682 --> 00:19:33,399
But you can start to learn from others
who are doing this thing well,
456
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,600
and then you can have a go at yourself.
457
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,570
Experiment with these things,
sometimes it will go wrong.
458
00:19:36,650 --> 00:19:38,930
Sometimes you'll have what are called
intelligent failures,
459
00:19:39,010 --> 00:19:40,530
where actually you failed at something
460
00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:42,470
that you couldn't have
worked out how to do before.
461
00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:45,639
But because of that, you've learned
how to do it much better in the future.
462
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,550
So, you're constantly in what's
sometimes called a growth mindset.
463
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:49,870
How can I get better?
464
00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:52,230
How can I discover new things
that will help me,
465
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:54,759
and how can I apply those
and keep improving?
466
00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:01,050
And what, in the course of asking myself
those questions, I start to think,
467
00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:05,910
oh, but the things that I want to grow in,
the strengths that I want to stretch,
468
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:09,610
aren't necessarily
what my job needs from me.
469
00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:11,960
So, there's almost like a bit of a tension
between what I want
470
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,470
and what my work needs.
471
00:20:13,550 --> 00:20:17,479
What do I do then, if that might feel like
it's getting in the way of my growth?
472
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,360
So, there are several things
we can do there.
473
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,951
First, we can work out
what are there bits of my job
474
00:20:22,031 --> 00:20:24,600
that will help me get good
at the thing that really matters?
475
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,617
So, I need or want to get really good
at writing in ways that are very clear.
476
00:20:29,697 --> 00:20:31,070
I don't do a lot of writing in my job,
477
00:20:31,150 --> 00:20:32,760
but occasionally I have to write
the odd email,
478
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,490
or I have to write a short report.
479
00:20:34,570 --> 00:20:37,195
How can I make those really good
and use those as moments,
480
00:20:37,275 --> 00:20:39,800
so I can really hone my writing skills?
481
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,610
And then in due course, I might think,
well, actually,
482
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:43,020
let me see if I can find a job.
483
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,650
And the advantage of working
for a big organisation
484
00:20:44,730 --> 00:20:48,350
is there are lots of jobs available
requiring lots of very different skills.
485
00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:52,679
How can I find a role that allows me
to do, in this case, more writing?
486
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,710
Feels more realistic to focus
on growth moments in a week,
487
00:20:57,790 --> 00:21:03,050
rather than to expect growth,
like, every minute to be a growth minute.
488
00:21:03,130 --> 00:21:05,470
Do you think that just trying to spot
those moments in the week,
489
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:07,690
that that's where I'm really
going to stretch that strength,
490
00:21:07,770 --> 00:21:10,679
rather than trying to think this is going
to happen every minute of every day?
491
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,407
I think it's all about our mindset.
492
00:21:12,487 --> 00:21:14,860
So, if you have a few moments in a week,
493
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:16,980
it's a lot better
than no moments in the week.
494
00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:18,930
But actually almost everything
we experience
495
00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:21,210
is an opportunity to learn something new.
496
00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:23,770
We're almost always talking
or connecting with other people,
497
00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,770
and people are infinitely complex.
498
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:29,190
You never master the ability to influence
or master the ability to hear
499
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:32,279
or to understand or to empathise.
You can always get better at that.
500
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:35,390
And these are great signature skills
to have not just at work,
501
00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:37,050
but actually at home as well.
502
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:39,360
Your partner or your children
or your parents might appreciate
503
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600
you being more empathetic
or better at listening,
504
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,520
or whatever else it might happen to be.
505
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,600
So, there are skills we can learn
in everything that we do.
506
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,090
Now, you might find it's a bit exhausting.
You don't want to be constantly learning.
507
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:51,079
You want to have a moment of just doing.
And that's fine as well.
508
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,050
But those opportunities
are almost always there.
509
00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:57,650
And the more we get good at growing
and discovering and learning,
510
00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:59,720
the more likely we are to feel fulfilled,
511
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,240
the more likely we are to actually be
physically healthy and mentally healthy,
512
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,340
and the more likely we are to become
more capable down the road.
513
00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:08,679
So, there's lots of gains from growth.
514
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,511
So, look for the learning and the growth.
515
00:22:11,591 --> 00:22:13,400
-The growth will come.
-Exactly that.
516
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,437
And so, I think this what can I do.
I think this links quite nicely
517
00:22:17,517 --> 00:22:20,599
into the sixth condition
which is around choice.
518
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,990
So, if I'm looking to increase my choices,
I'm in a large organisation
519
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:27,110
and I want to have more choices about,
520
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:29,470
I don't know what I'm working on
and where I'm working,
521
00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:32,879
what helps me
to increase choice in that context?
522
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,590
To focus on the things that I can affect,
523
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:38,030
rather than worry about
the things that I can't.
524
00:22:38,110 --> 00:22:40,990
And these exist whether you work
in a large organisation or a small one,
525
00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:42,370
but you're still part of an ecosystem
526
00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:45,910
where you're dependent on customers
and suppliers and other competitors
527
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:47,092
and all sorts of things.
528
00:22:47,172 --> 00:22:49,639
No one has complete control
of their situation,
529
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,870
with a possible exception of a poet
who sits at the top of their attic
530
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:55,799
and has a candle
and never meets anybody outside.
531
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,630
But pretty much all of us are dependent
on conditions that exist externally,
532
00:22:59,710 --> 00:23:02,480
and we can choose to worry about
the things that we can't affect,
533
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,460
or we can choose to focus
on the things that we can affect.
534
00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:10,100
And in large organisations, there's loads
we can do to build alliances,
535
00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:11,560
to understand what other people are doing
536
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,999
and make sure that our work
connects with them
537
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,420
in order to work out what others
are doing that is successful,
538
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,260
that we can replicate and what others
have gone wrong that hasn't worked,
539
00:23:19,340 --> 00:23:20,479
that we can avoid.
540
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,225
So, there's an enormous amount
we can do to advance
541
00:23:23,305 --> 00:23:26,480
the purpose or the cause, or the nature
of the work that we're doing,
542
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,620
and our job to be at our best
and to feel at our best
543
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:31,400
is to focus on the things we can do
544
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,639
rather than worry
about the things that we can't do.
545
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,820
So, it feels like we're trying to sort of
hold optimism for our opportunities,
546
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,211
rather than feeling like a victim
547
00:23:41,291 --> 00:23:43,919
of the situation
that we find ourselves in?
548
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,190
I'm going to be slightly
psychological about this,
549
00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:47,866
because there's a difference
between optimism
550
00:23:47,946 --> 00:23:50,139
-and what's called locus of control.
-Okay.
551
00:23:50,219 --> 00:23:54,230
So, the locus of control is focusing
on what are the things that I can affect.
552
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:56,800
So, I can't determine
what questions you ask me in this,
553
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,999
but I can choose how I answer them.
554
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,471
So, out of my control
is the questions you ask,
555
00:24:01,551 --> 00:24:03,810
in my control
is the answers that I give.
556
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:08,439
Now, optimism is about whether I see
something as a positive or a negative,
557
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,260
or how I interpret positive
or negative events.
558
00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:14,916
So, an optimist
will interpret a positive event
559
00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:17,319
as universal and permanent.
560
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,520
So, I have cooked this meal,
means I'm always a brilliant cook.
561
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,430
The pessimist will interpret it
the other way round.
562
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:26,840
It's a one-off. I was lucky,
I happened to cook a good chicken,
563
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,759
but it probably won't happen again.
564
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,290
And the reverse is the case.
565
00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:34,010
So, a negative events and optimists
will say, this is temporary and specific.
566
00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:35,799
I just happened
to get it wrong this time.
567
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,930
Whereas a pessimist would go,
"Typical. I can never do this.
568
00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:39,698
I'm completely hopeless."
569
00:24:39,778 --> 00:24:41,870
Now, with optimism and pessimism,
570
00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:45,500
it is not the case that one is better
than the other all the time.
571
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:49,760
So, optimists live longer,
achieve more, and are happier.
572
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,133
But they're also wrong more often.
573
00:24:52,213 --> 00:24:54,650
So, you want to get the right balance
to be flexible
574
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:57,639
about when you're an optimist
and when you're a pessimist.
575
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,020
So, we've talked through
the six conditions now,
576
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:01,660
and I think in the course
of the conversation
577
00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:04,525
we've covered lots of different questions
people can ask themselves,
578
00:25:04,605 --> 00:25:06,480
some really interesting bits of research,
579
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,070
which are definitely
going to stick with me,
580
00:25:08,150 --> 00:25:10,091
and also some actions people can take.
581
00:25:10,171 --> 00:25:16,750
But if you are going to pull this together
into three powerful actions that anyone,
582
00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:21,020
anyone could take away, regardless of sort
of what condition they're starting with,
583
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:22,919
what would you suggest for people?
584
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,590
Number one is concentrate
on what you can do
585
00:25:25,671 --> 00:25:27,770
rather than worrying about
what you can't affect.
586
00:25:27,850 --> 00:25:30,580
And there are always things you can do
to improve the situation.
587
00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:33,479
So, focus on where
you can make a difference.
588
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,640
Number two is alter your time horizon.
So, you're thinking slightly further out.
589
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,490
That way you'll get
less buffeted by events.
590
00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:42,877
You'll probably get less stressed,
you're more likely to learn,
591
00:25:42,957 --> 00:25:45,480
and you're much more likely to feel
a sense of accomplishment.
592
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,870
So, work out where do you want to be
in six months time or 12 months time,
593
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:52,219
rather than six minutes,
six hours or even six days.
594
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,470
And the third is build a community
that you can draw on
595
00:25:55,550 --> 00:25:56,690
and listen to and learn from.
596
00:25:56,770 --> 00:25:59,360
And the more diverse
that community is, the better.
597
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,370
So, we tend to go
to the same types of people for advice.
598
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:04,780
They tend to be at roughly
the same stage in life,
599
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:06,360
possibly the same educational background.
600
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,120
If we went to university,
they probably did as well.
601
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200
They may even have studied
the same subject.
602
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,360
This creates a kind of more static view
and perspective than we will get
603
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,920
if we get to a wide range of people,
people who are much younger or much older,
604
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,770
people who come from
very different academic
605
00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:22,310
or professional backgrounds,
who do different disciplines.
606
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:24,710
And one of the joys
of being in a great bank
607
00:26:24,790 --> 00:26:27,120
is there are multiple,
very different people out there.
608
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,199
It's up to us to make the effort
to get to know them.
609
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,760
So, three specific actions to help
people power up their performance.
610
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,650
First, ask what I can do.
Second, look further out into the future.
611
00:26:38,730 --> 00:26:42,279
And third, create a more diverse
community around your work.
612
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,430
-Yes.
-Brilliant.
613
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:45,170
Well, hopefully
that is useful for everyone.
614
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:46,420
It's definitely useful for me.
615
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:48,959
I'm definitely taking
some of that advice away from today.
616
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,297
Thank you so much
for the conversation today, Octavius.
617
00:26:52,377 --> 00:26:55,071
Before we let you go,
in our next episode,
618
00:26:55,151 --> 00:26:57,060
we're going to be talking about
the topic of feedback,
619
00:26:57,140 --> 00:26:59,810
which obviously we started
in today's conversation,
620
00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:02,220
but I just wondered for you
and your feedback,
621
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,799
what is the most powerful piece
of feedback you've had in your career?
622
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,760
I'll give you the worst.
And then also the best.
623
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,860
So, before I started professional work,
624
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:13,580
I was a journalist
and I worked on restaurant reviews
625
00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:16,959
and travel articles for magazines.
It was enormous fun.
626
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,360
And I remember submitting this article
to an editor and she said,
627
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,850
hm, I think it needs more zhuzh.
And I was just like, totally crestfallen.
628
00:27:25,930 --> 00:27:28,110
I had no idea what that meant
or what to do with it,
629
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:31,720
or where even to start,
so, that was really unhelpful feedback.
630
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,630
But another time an editor said to me,
631
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:37,810
he said, I read your your articles
and they're broadly very good,
632
00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:41,639
but your first paragraph always takes
too long to get into the topic
633
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,050
and you seems indulgent, and it's
for your own writing yourself into it.
634
00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:48,060
So, I would just edit out,
cut your first paragraph
635
00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:49,980
and go straight to the second paragraph.
636
00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:52,100
And that I always found
very useful feedback.
637
00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:53,860
Sometimes the most powerful feedback
you get
638
00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:56,380
is the stuff
that you can't see for yourself,
639
00:27:56,460 --> 00:27:58,380
and asking those people
that you trust to give you
640
00:27:58,460 --> 00:28:00,720
that insight is very useful
for your development.
641
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,919
It was also very descriptive.
642
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,959
-Yes!
-Okay, I can totally get it.
643
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,046
I love the first paragraph.
I spent ages conjuring the words
644
00:28:07,126 --> 00:28:09,800
to make it delicious,
and clever, and so whatever.
645
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,830
And it was just totally for me.
It wasn't for the reader.
646
00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:13,920
And therefore getting that
was incredibly helpful.
647
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,520
Thank you so much for your time
and sharing that with us today.
648
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,603
My pleasure.
