The Problem with Obstetrics and How it's Failing Mothers with Dr. Stuart Fischbein EP 245

WEBVTT
00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:09.839
The postpartum care system is failing, leaving countless mothers struggling with depression, anxiety, and autoimmune conditions.
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:18.800
I'm Miranda Bauer, and I've helped thousands of providers use holistic care practices to heal their clients at the root.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:29.359
Subscribe now and join us in addressing what modern medicine overlooks so that you can give your clients real lasting solutions for lifelong well-being.
00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.280
Hey, hey, everyone.
00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:34.479
Welcome to the podcast.
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.920
Miranda Bauer here, and today I have Dr.
00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:40.000
Stuart Fishbein.
00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:41.600
Y'all know him as Dr.
00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:42.079
Stu.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:53.439
He is the published author of the book Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom and Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom, and a peer-reviewed papers, Home Birth with an obstetrician, and so many more.
00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:58.079
He spent 28 years assisting women with hospital birth.
00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:04.400
And then for the next 12 plus years, he was a home birth obstetrician who worked directly with midwives.
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:20.159
And since retiring from attending home births, he has turned his focus into traveling around the world as a lecturer, an advocate for reteaching breach and twin birth skills, respect for the normalcy of birth, and honoring informed consent.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:24.799
He hosts the weekly Birthing Instincts podcast with co-host Bliss Young.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.560
And we are so thrilled to have him on the podcast.
00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:29.280
Welcome, Dr.
00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:29.760
Stew.
00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:30.560
So great to have you.
00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:31.840
Thank you, Miranda, very much.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:38.719
It's always an a good opportunity for me to uh I'm honored just to be able to speak to an audience that might not normally get.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:44.640
Um when I retired from birthing, it it is hard, but the age did catch up to me.
00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:55.280
And the need for solid, even stolid slumber was was overwhelming me because I had been on call pretty much, you know, every day for almost 40 years.
00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:01.359
And even though you don't get called all the time at night, you are never going to bed not knowing you're going to be called.
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:02.719
So it did wear on me.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:03.280
I got old.
00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:04.719
I miss being at birth.
00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:05.920
I don't miss the waiting around.
00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:14.560
I don't miss the being on call, but I certainly miss the moment when you know that that baby's coming out vaginally, whether it's crowning or rumping or whatever.
00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:25.919
And um so uh I'm honored that I still get to go around and teach this and be invited to come on podcasts like yours and share my experiences.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.159
And people can decide whether it's wisdom or not.
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:29.280
I'll let them decide.
00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:39.759
But my experiences are real and I have this unique perspective because I spent, as you said, 28 years in the hospital setting and a little over 12 years at in the home setting, which is very rare.
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:41.840
That you know, it's either one or the other.
00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:56.560
Um, rarely do OBs ever go to a home birth, and rarely do home birth midwives, I mean they have to transfer their patients, but they they don't have experience the pressures that doctors and nurses are under in the medicalized hospital system.
00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.599
So uh I have that perspective from both.
00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.240
Which is, you're right, is extremely rare.
00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:08.879
And I actually back in the day when I got pregnant with my first my my son is almost 16 years old.
00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:11.599
I've got four kids, all home births.
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:18.240
I was actually introduced to home birth by an OB who attended home births in the Chicago area.
00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:19.759
And it was absolutely fascinating.
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:25.280
He was sharing with me, he said, Miranda, I don't know what you're gonna do for your birth, and it's all up to you.
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:27.199
It's your complete decision.
00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:30.719
But I highly recommend that you look into home birth.
00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:33.360
And I was like, wow, that's that's really interesting.
00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:34.879
His name was Ben Lowe, Dr.
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:35.520
Ben Lowe.
00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:40.240
And he had a practice working with three of uh two other two other male physicians.
00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:49.439
Uh and he has like eight plus kids, all born at home, like just absolutely amazing, wonderful man, just wonderful human being.
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.800
And I was like, Oh, great, I I will look into that.
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:59.599
And it was it was mind-blowing, and I and I did, and I had home birth with all, and I couldn't imagine anything different.
00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:04.319
And what I saw working with midwives was a completely different perspective as a doula.
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:14.560
Now that I have that, you know, as a doula for many, many years, uh, and I don't do that work anymore because being on call, just as you had described, is awful.
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.879
Um, but I, you know, I saw the difference between OB and midwifery care.
00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:24.879
And this this whole model of care was so fascinating and so different.
00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:38.560
And so for you who has this perspective, I'm wondering and curious how did working with midwives teach you about postpartum care or or birth care that your medical training never covered?
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:39.439
Wow.
00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:40.000
Okay.
00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:50.079
Uh well, just for your listeners, uh, I was conventionally trained in my residency program at Cedar Sine Medical Center in Los Angeles back in the early 1980s.
00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:57.040
And people have to understand that medicine and the practice of obstetrics was completely different in the early 80s than it is in 2025.
00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:58.879
In many, in many ways.
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:07.439
Uh the whole system of medicine used to be private practice, you know, it was hospital-based, but the patients belonged to the doctors.
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:15.120
And now we live in a world where doctors are just paid employees of a hospital working shifts, and the patients belong to the system.
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:20.560
So when I finished my residency program, I was very medically trained.
00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:30.240
And I thought that pregnancy was a uh, you laugh, for lack of a better term, a high-risk condition that required management.
00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:32.480
This is what we were trained as residents.
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.480
Everything uh had a protocol, everything had an algorithm.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.480
We had ways of dealing with all diabetics, ways of dealing with all twins.
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:43.519
Um, very little individualization of care.
00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.920
It was very mechanized.
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:55.680
Um, I did things that I now look back and I tend to think were pretty stupid and I mock a little bit, um, because that's all I knew.
00:05:55.839 --> 00:06:01.920
And that's the way doctors are trained now, is all they know is what they learn in their medical school and residency training.
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.279
And then they come out, and even if they wanted to do something different like Dr.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:12.480
Lowe, um, it's very difficult for them to do that nowadays because they're not private practice, they're not independent.
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:14.959
They're they're they're salaried employees.
00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:26.000
Um so what I learned was again that medicine, that pregnancy was an illness, and that almost all of them required some sort of intervention or treatment.
00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:34.959
And so every pregnant woman came into the hospital, she got an IV, she got blood drawn, she signed consent forms, uh, and then she got put on a monitor.
00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.800
Uh, you know, we had faith in the monitors back then, we had faith in Friedman's curve back then.
00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:47.839
Um, we had faith that Pitocin didn't, you know, wasn't a detriment or that Cytotech wasn't a detriment.
00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:50.240
We did, you know, we intervened a lot.
00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:58.879
When I was a medical student at the University of Minnesota, uh, every single woman, whether it was her first baby or fifth baby, got a medial lateral epesiotomy.
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:00.879
We were dressed in full hazmat suits.
00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.279
The woman was on her back with her legs and stirrups.
00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:06.959
Uh, we were washing off her bottom with iodine called beta dine.
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:08.720
Um, we were putting drapes on her legs.
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.040
We were taking the baby, we were clamping the cord immediately.
00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.879
We were handing the baby to the warmer, to the nurse in the warmer, not the mother.
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:16.639
Um, this was routine.
00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:18.079
This was how birth was done.
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:20.240
This is what we all thought was normal.
00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:25.920
Until I when I came out of practice, I came out of residency and I started a private practice.
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:33.199
And in those days, again, because you didn't get a you didn't get a salary, you didn't have it, you didn't, uh, you weren't working for anybody, you had to hustle to build your practice.
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:40.480
So you covered emergency rooms, you covered other doctors when they were on call uh on vacation, or you assisted them in surgery.
00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:42.720
I I worked at free clinics.
00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:55.439
And one of the things that happened to me early in my career, which was life-changing, it's one of those sliding door moments, was I was approached by a couple local midwives, home birth midwives in in LA, and asked if I would take their home birth transports.
00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:01.519
And being open to these things, but also being very medicalized, I didn't think that home birth was a good idea.
00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:08.000
I'm pretty sure that I probably thought it was a bad idea, just like most doctors are indoctrinated to believe.
00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.959
Uh, I did it because it was revenue generating for me.
00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:11.920
Simple as that.
00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:17.680
So simple I was a simple mercenary uh trying to make money.
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:22.240
Uh, but it changed my life because I got to spend time with the midwives.
00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:25.519
I found that their patients were not hippies.
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:27.040
They were quite bright.
00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:30.800
They knew more about their bodies and birth than my patients did.
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.799
Um, the they were not coming in with emergencies.
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:42.159
They were coming in because they generally were exhausted, or maybe their blood pressure was up a little bit or something, and it wasn't something that was a disaster.
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.279
Like those things tend to get uh amplified.
00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:52.799
You know, there was a meme I saw recently, Miranda, that said, when something goes wrong with a birth in the hospital, it's because of pregnant, it's because of birth.
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:55.919
When something goes wrong with birth at home, it's because of home birth.
00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:56.399
Right.
00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.840
It's not that they never blame themselves for what goes on.
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.600
And and so I began to hear from the midwives different ways of doing things.
00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.279
And they began to ask me questions like, why are you cutting the cord immediately?
00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.320
Why are you taking the baby to the warm or not handing it to the mother?
00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.159
And it's like I didn't have an answer.
00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:18.639
Well, the answer is like when I was a kid and my I was annoying to my mother, my mother would say, Do it because I said so.
00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.159
So this was like my answer to them was, well, this is our protocol.
00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:23.440
This is our policy.
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:25.759
Like, well, that's not an answer.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.720
So they made me begin to think differently.
00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:40.000
And then after about 10 years in practice, I started a collaborative midwifery practice where I really got into the model of midwifery care and let the midwives do all the normal stuff, and I took care of the problem stuff.
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.679
And that is probably the best model of care that I've I've dealt with.
00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.960
We are good at obstetricians are good at problems.
00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:50.320
But because we're good at problems, we see every birth as a potential problem.
00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:58.720
Midwives are experts in normal birthing, they're not a subset of uh obstetricians, they're not a lesser subset.
00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:03.840
You know, they're not a mid-level provider, they are a different profession altogether.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:08.080
But my colleagues don't appreciate that, and the system doesn't appreciate that.
00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:19.440
Um, and so I just I just found that that they had a better way of doing things, and most women are not, do not need medical attention when they're pregnant.
00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:21.600
So they taught me a lot.
00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.200
So you back to your question about postpartum.
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:32.240
If you don't understand the whole process of understanding the midwifery model of care, then it may not be out of context when I say these things.
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:41.840
So the midwifery model of care sees pregnancy as wellness, a normal function of the body that sometimes goes awry, and they accept uncertainty.
00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.960
Uh obstetricians see pregnancy as illness.
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.480
They don't like uncertainty.
00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:55.679
And so they interject their own uh issues, which sometimes may cause more problems than nature itself, but it's their problems, they're comfortable with them.
00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.879
And they think that pregnancy uh needs intervention.
00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.120
That's the difference between the two models.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:06.000
The problem is, is course, of course, is the system isn't not set up to be human.
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:12.240
The system is set up to be uh efficient for the system, to move women in and move women out.
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.159
And doctors are trained in that system.
00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:22.000
We're almost trained as little, as little um worker bees to do what we're told to feed the system.
00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:29.279
And the system is to make money, and the system is to get uh babies in the bassinet, no matter how they get there, it doesn't really matter.
00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:34.720
And one of the things we were never taught was anything about postpartum care in their own.
00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:36.639
And that's still to uh true for today.
00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:47.279
I mean, I know that your training was back then, but people who are being trained today as providers are not getting any sort of training in postpartum care whatsoever.
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:48.559
I agree with you.
00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:50.159
And I and how do I know that?
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:56.879
Because the system still exists where they'll send you home on postpartum day two and they say to you, see you in six weeks.
00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.519
And that is still the system.
00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:01.440
Why is the system like that?
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:08.159
Well, part of it is indoctrination, part of it is habit, and part of it is financial.
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:14.320
The way insurance companies reimburse for pregnancy is that everything that happens within the first six weeks is part of your global fee.
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:21.759
So if you come in, if you see a woman six times during the six-week period of postpartum or once, um, you get paid the same.
00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.240
And doctors are a business.
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.559
They have to meet their quota, they have to pay their overhead, they have to do these things.
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:36.559
So um there's no thought process or teaching uh that that this is not how it's supposed to be.
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.200
There's no, we don't see other models of care.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:53.440
When you only work in the medical model, you don't see the kind of care that midwives provide for postpartum care, which is typically whether or not you deliver in the hospital or at home, midwives are gonna see you on the first or second day after you deliver.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.519
They're gonna come back maybe on day five.
00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:59.840
They may have come back on day 10 to 14, do another visit.
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.200
There, you know who your midwife is in that model.
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:11.360
So when you call with an issue at night, like baby's not latching well or something like that, you're not gonna get put through to a stranger.
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.320
You're gonna be put through to the person who knows you.
00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.759
And I can't emphasize enough how important that is.
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:23.279
Because I, as a physician who took call for all those years, I'm human.
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.639
I'm going to give better attention to people that I know than people that I don't know.
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:38.480
I'm gonna try to do my best, but we all, it's it's human nature, it's it's to give more attention to people who are directly in your line of sight.
00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:42.480
You care more about your family than you care about your neighbor.
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:48.080
And you care more about your neighbor than you care about somebody who lives in a town 20 miles away.
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:53.039
And you certainly care more about the person who lives in your state than maybe somebody who lives in a foreign country.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.440
This is just that's just how it works.
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.559
There are those of us that are exceptional and they care about everybody and stuff.
00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:09.200
But that's not when there's an emergency, you're going to go back and you're going to pay attention to those people that you have a connection to, a relationship with, a communication with.
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:11.840
And midwives know their clients.
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:16.399
So another advantage to the midwifery model of care is postpartum.
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.000
When there is an issue, you're going to get that person who knows you.
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:24.559
And then they're going to see you again, maybe at a month, and then certainly at six weeks.
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.639
And then, you know, midwives have a slogan on your it's your midwife for life.
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:34.879
And so if you have a problem when your kid is three months old or six months old, you can call your midwife and they're going to be able to take care of you.
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:44.000
Because midwives also look at mother-baby as a dyad, as connected, that there's a symphony that goes on between mother and baby.
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:47.200
The medical model, one of the hugest, hugest, is that a word?
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:48.080
No, that's not a good word.
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:49.120
It is today.
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:50.159
It's a word today.
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:56.879
One of the biggest, one of the biggest flaws in the system is that they see uh mother and baby as two separate entities.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.279
And once that baby is born, that baby now belongs to the pediatric department.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.320
And the obstetrician doesn't deal with that.
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:08.320
So the obstetrician deals with mom, the pediatrician deals with baby.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.720
Nobody's dealing with mother baby.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:12.159
Midwives do that.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:18.240
And some family practice doctors do that, and certainly some naturopaths do that, but obstetricians don't do that.
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:22.639
Obstetricians are very reluctant to give advice about a newborn baby.
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.440
I mean, they that that's not their field.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:27.679
Midwives know all about that.
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:29.759
And mother baby is a diad.
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:35.519
Breastfeeding is not something that you can farm off to a lactation consultant all the time.
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.679
And the lactation consultants in the hospital, by the way, they work a shift also.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:46.639
So you may see one lactation consultant on day one who did give tells you something, and on day two, you see somebody else who tells you something different.
00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.440
So there's no there's very little continuity of care.
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:54.879
And postpartum care in the midwifery model is designed for continuity.
00:15:55.120 --> 00:16:11.120
Now, what's happening with a lot of midwife practices these days, or they're getting larger or they're getting um taken over by medical systems, and they're becoming less personal or more impersonal, I should say, because they'll all the midwives are now working shifts as well.
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:17.679
And I understand that working a shift is better for your lifestyle as a physician or a practitioner, but it's not better for the mom.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:18.720
It's not.
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.960
So we don't we don't know much about postpartum care.
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.120
We we don't know much about breastfeeding.
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.559
I mean, listen, in my day, we discouraged breastfeeding.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:34.720
We encourage women to take a shot to dry up their milk so that they wouldn't get engorged while they bottle fed.
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:41.519
While the pharmaceutical companies that came to our office and brought us really nice lunches and got us gift bags for our patients and took us to Laker Games.
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:43.440
Um, this is this is what happened.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:44.480
They outlawed that.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:52.240
Uh, that we needed a law to be ethical is you know, that's just says a lot, a little bit about says a lot about the system.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:58.480
Um but uh yeah, we were influenced by what we were what we're taught.
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.960
And again, if you only hear one thing, you only know that thing.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:08.000
I mean, if you lived your entire life in Greece and never heard someone speak another language, you'd think the whole world spoke Greek.
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:09.279
But we know it doesn't.
00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.000
And they're not, and you have to be open to hearing those things.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.480
And I don't think that most OBs are.
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:24.720
And it's not by their human nature, it's by the what happens to them uh uh working in a system that is not designed for nurturing.
00:18:33.239 --> 00:18:40.119
So we have this system that's not designed for nurturing, and we know that it needs to be significantly improved.
00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:51.719
And I and I see so many providers who are standing up saying, hey, we need something different, but how do we integrate these principles back into this broken system?
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:52.840
Is that even possible?
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.760
Or are we gonna have to tear down the entire system and rebuild something different?
00:18:57.159 --> 00:18:59.480
No, women are gonna have to have to ask for it.
00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:01.480
And and there are several things we can talk about.
00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:07.000
First of all, some of the things the midwife taught me was about the like the 40 days of lying in.
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:12.039
That's not what we we used to tell women, okay, no sex for six weeks, no heavy lifting.
00:19:12.199 --> 00:19:15.000
I think that was pretty much the limit of our instructions.
00:19:16.199 --> 00:19:17.239
So, what does that mean, right?
00:19:17.320 --> 00:19:23.239
Like, are you am I still able to carry my baby in that laundry basket or like up a number?
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.159
Oh, they'll make up a number, 20 pounds.
00:19:25.320 --> 00:19:27.000
Yeah, they just make it up.
00:19:27.639 --> 00:19:28.119
All right.
00:19:28.280 --> 00:19:33.400
And do they tell you how to pick up somebody if you have to pick up something off the floor?
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.239
Do they tell you to squat, use your knees, don't?
00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:36.039
I don't know.
00:19:36.199 --> 00:19:39.079
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't have the time to do that.
00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:43.320
But men wives would talk about the 40 days of lying in.
00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:47.159
And then you know, the the the old saying was it's like uh, what is it?
00:19:47.239 --> 00:19:52.840
Um postpartum, it's five days in the bed, five days, five days around the bed.
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:54.440
Yeah, or is I'm not sure.
00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:55.800
I now I've I've forgotten.
00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:57.079
I there's so much in my head that's like.
00:19:57.320 --> 00:19:57.800
You got it.
00:19:57.880 --> 00:19:58.199
Yep.
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.840
Five days in bed, five days around the bed, five days.
00:20:01.159 --> 00:20:01.880
Five days around the house.
00:20:02.360 --> 00:20:03.079
Five days around the house.
00:20:03.159 --> 00:20:03.480
Yep.
00:20:03.719 --> 00:20:05.320
That's only two weeks, though.
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:11.639
But you're supposed to really stay around and do nothing and have that baby skin to skin for that entire time.
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:17.960
You know, dad can take over for a little bit, but but there's no reason mom needs to be doing anything else.
00:20:18.360 --> 00:20:20.840
They should put their uh their phones away.
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.519
You don't want to have the non-ionizing radiation nearby anyway.
00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:30.840
Uh, you should have this period of time where minimal visitors, you should be eating mostly warm food.
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.000
That's a Chinese thing, I believe.
00:20:33.159 --> 00:20:35.400
Um it's actually a cultural thing around the world.
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:36.920
That's one thing that I teach.
00:20:37.239 --> 00:20:45.960
Around the world, every uh postpartum practice supports warm, digestive, easy to digest food.
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:55.559
And it looks different, you know, it might be a different stew, it might be a different soup, but the practices are the exact same for any culture who supports postpartum.
00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:56.599
Except ours.
00:20:57.320 --> 00:20:57.960
Except ours.
00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:00.440
And and do doctors know that?
00:21:00.679 --> 00:21:01.639
I don't think so.
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:03.239
I don't I don't think they know that.
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:13.800
Another thing that would really be helpful, and this gets into a a little bit more of the so our social and cultural system that we have, but we know that fertility rates are falling.
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:22.840
We know that there are medical reasons for that, but putting that aside, um, we're not even at replacement value in our country anymore, and most countries are not.
00:21:23.159 --> 00:21:28.039
So when you want something, and we and we need we need to have more kids.
00:21:28.199 --> 00:21:33.320
I I the whole idea that the climate's gonna kill us all and and oh overpopulation.
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:36.360
I mean, when I was in the 60s, they were talking about overpopulation.
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:44.280
We we need to subsidize things that you want, and it's basic economics, and tax things that you don't want.
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.159
Okay, if you subsidize something, you get more of it.
00:21:47.239 --> 00:21:48.599
If you tax it, you get less of it.
00:21:48.840 --> 00:21:55.239
So one of the things we don't have in our country is like substantial paid leave for both men and women.
00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.800
Women are given six weeks' disability.
00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:59.639
At least that's what they were in California.
00:21:59.800 --> 00:22:00.760
Maybe it's changed.
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.159
But when I was there, you could say, and then you'd have to find a reason to extend it.
00:22:05.239 --> 00:22:10.599
So basically, you'd have to commit, say that the woman's back is hurting her or that she's not recovered yet, or you make up something.
00:22:10.760 --> 00:22:16.679
So essentially, you they force you to commit sort of fraud in order to give the woman more time.
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.280
We could change that.
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:25.400
A policy would change that where we could give women six months and we could give men six months of paid leave.
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:38.679
So that would make it financially more viable for them to have more children, and it would make that period of time so much more therapeutic for both mother and baby and father to right.
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.039
We don't do that.
00:22:40.679 --> 00:22:50.760
So that's one of the things that the system could change, which would help with uh with the postpartum issues, because families sometimes can't afford to take more than six weeks off.
00:22:51.239 --> 00:22:55.639
Dads are usually back at work when three, four days after the birth.
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:56.840
Absolutely, yeah.
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:09.400
And moms too, they're they're back at work a week, two weeks later because the leave is unpaid, and they can't afford to be out an unpaid leave, which is insanely frustrating.
00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:20.119
I know here in Alaska, one of the laws that has just been enacted is that midwit midwives have the ability to work with women postpartum for an entire year.
00:23:20.679 --> 00:23:23.559
So that state Medicaid, I think it's Medicaid, right?
00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:24.599
Medicaid Medicare.
00:23:24.760 --> 00:23:25.639
I always get this confused.
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:27.000
Yeah, no, it's Medicaid.
00:23:27.639 --> 00:23:31.079
It will it will be paid for completely.
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:51.159
So if a mom has that insurance for an entire year, she can have that continuous care model, which you have described, so she can work with that same midwife that had helped her in in delivery and was with her during the birth of her baby through an entire year of care that it's paid for by insurance.
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:57.159
You know, I again listen, I'm not for socialism, but I think that social engineering is important.
00:23:57.320 --> 00:24:04.599
And and I know that everybody may have, not everybody, but there are many different ways of looking at a at an issue.
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:14.599
Um, I just think that what we're doing, what we've done to the family in the past 50 to 70 years has not has not benefited our country.
00:24:14.840 --> 00:24:19.079
And we could change things by changing the way we subsidize things.
00:24:19.320 --> 00:24:21.400
And I'm not talking about socialized medicine.
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:37.159
I'm talking, but I am talking about what you just said, where giving women support for a year and paying somebody to offer that support, especially a midwife, who certainly, by the way, is far more economical than a physician and shouldn't be, though, by the way.
00:24:37.239 --> 00:24:42.039
I mean, they're more uh they know more about this stuff than doctors do, yet doctors get paid more than they do.
00:24:42.199 --> 00:24:44.519
Again, another flaw in our system.
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:53.079
But it's very, it's really important because we're not taught, the doctors are not taught anything about this stuff.
00:24:53.239 --> 00:25:04.039
There, there is no studies that really can break down the um the psychology that's happening to mothers afterwards, that the the trauma that's going on within them.
00:25:04.199 --> 00:25:05.239
They don't look at that stuff.
00:25:05.320 --> 00:25:11.719
That's not an outcome that's measurable in the medicalized model, which always wants to look at you know data.
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.519
But they they it this is fuzzy data.
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:15.239
They don't like that.
00:25:15.320 --> 00:25:19.960
They like data like morbidity and mortality and C-section rates and things like that.
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:32.519
But they but none of the studies actually look at the at the downsides of what the medical model has really been doing to our mother-baby bonding and our family relationships and stuff like that.
00:25:32.760 --> 00:25:46.599
Midwifery does look at those things and how a society treats its women and its children, um, especially those the the weakest, is it it tells you, uh makes a statement about the society.
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.239
And I don't think we're I don't think that we're doing well.
00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:53.239
There are countries that are doing far better than us when it comes to that.
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:58.360
I mean, the world's in a mess, in a big mess right now, in so many ways.
00:25:58.519 --> 00:25:58.840
Yeah.
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:12.440
But one of the things that we could do is we could help with this because the way we start out in life, our immune systems start out in the womb, uh, our our relationships, our connections, our stress levels, all those things.
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:18.039
If if we experience those things when we're young, they're going to affect us when we're older.
00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:19.639
We can be kinder.
00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.360
I mean, what do women want more than kindness?
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:23.880
Connection.
00:26:24.199 --> 00:26:24.440
Yeah.
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:29.000
I mean, I would put that under the umbrella of kindness, right?
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:29.800
Yeah.
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:30.199
Yeah.
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:31.719
And the medical system doesn't do that.
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.440
Midwifery model um is more supportive of that.
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.239
Now, listen, there are midwives who are very medicalized.
00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:39.079
So it's not, it's a model of care.
00:26:39.159 --> 00:26:41.880
It's not just necessarily, oh, I hired a midwife, now I'm good.
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:44.360
No, no, you have to do your due diligence.
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.760
You have to check them out, you have to find out uh how do you how do they make you feel?
00:26:48.840 --> 00:26:51.480
How do you feel when you when you finish a visit with them?
00:26:51.719 --> 00:26:52.440
Do you feel better?
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:53.159
Do you feel worse?
00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:54.119
Are you connected?
00:26:54.360 --> 00:27:02.679
We I mean we have abdicated our responsibility when it comes to pregnancy as if it's a part of our health care.
00:27:03.239 --> 00:27:11.559
We pay a fee every month for our insurance, and we and we go uh where they tell us to go, and they tell us how often to go.
00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:20.599
Oh, it's time to get your teeth cleaned, or it's time to get your mammogram, or it's time to get your paps, and you just go in and you just do it without any real thought process of it.
00:27:20.679 --> 00:27:22.920
You wouldn't do that with anything else in your life.
00:27:23.239 --> 00:27:28.119
Everything else in your life you plan ahead, but this one thing we tend to abdicate to somebody else.
00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:33.800
And when you abdicate responsibility, you get what, you know, you you you you get what you sort of deserve.
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.760
And it and women who've I know this because I've seen both worlds.
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:51.719
Women who go and do the work and find the right practitioner, whether it be an OB or a midwife, um, they're gonna have less emotional trauma, less physical trauma, they're going to recover better.
00:27:51.880 --> 00:28:00.280
Now, midwife, the midwife model itself, you're gonna see less physical trauma and therefore a less emotional trauma as well.
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:27.079
We know for a fact that hospital births, you're far more likely to end up with interventions such as psiotomies, lacerations, C-sections, operative instrumental deliveries, um, mother-baby separation, not delayed cord clamping, uh, manual removal of the placenta, all these things with no real concern what that's doing to the baby or the mother long term, because nobody studies it.
00:28:27.239 --> 00:28:30.679
It's not quantifiable, therefore, we're not going to pay any attention to it.
00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:32.599
Plus, you can't bill for these things.
00:28:32.840 --> 00:28:35.880
And then our system is based on billing.
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:44.920
I know I'm sort of going all over the place, and maybe listeners are starting to get a little nervous, anxious in their stomach, but that's because the system is chaotic.
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:46.519
It's just chaotic.
00:28:46.760 --> 00:28:48.840
And that doesn't benefit anybody.
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.360
The practitioners are not happy, the patients are not.
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:53.719
Who's happy with the system?
00:28:54.039 --> 00:29:00.679
I mean, maybe the people that run it, the executives that run it, the administrators of hospitals that run, you know, they they do well.
00:29:00.760 --> 00:29:02.360
The risk managers, they do well.
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:07.639
Yeah, but the individual patient, the individual doctor, the individual nurse, most of them are not very happy.
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:09.400
I've said this many times before.
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.800
How do I know that doctors aren't happy?
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:17.639
Um, because everybody's heard of the fact that doctors often are they use coercion.
00:29:17.800 --> 00:29:41.719
They'll say things like, if you don't do this, your baby could die, or you know, um, you you have to have the hepatitis vaccine because you know, for whatever reason, and they'll use coercion, or you'll say, I don't really want to have an IV, and they'll roll their eyes, or they'll, or they'll stomp out of the room, or they'll laugh at your birth uh your birth plan, or they'll treat you badly, or they'll talk harshly to you.
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:47.400
And I can just tell people uh it's common sense that happy people don't talk to people like that.
00:29:47.639 --> 00:29:49.159
Happy people don't do that.
00:29:49.719 --> 00:29:50.360
That's so true.
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:54.679
And stories of these are legion in the hospital setting.
00:29:54.920 --> 00:30:05.880
Um that you were disempowered, you were uh you were uh embarrassed, your baby was used against you, your husband was used against you.
00:30:06.199 --> 00:30:14.039
There's a list of of uh behaviors that I that I when I teach my two-day seminar, I go through.
00:30:14.199 --> 00:30:22.039
It's a list of behaviors, and it sounds like things that are happening to women in labor and delivery about abusive things that happen to them.
00:30:22.280 --> 00:30:25.159
The list actually comes from a domestic abuse hotline.
00:30:25.239 --> 00:30:32.679
And the things that happen in domestic abuse um are what the hospital system is doing to women in labor.
00:30:32.840 --> 00:30:35.159
It's remarkable because I fool people.
00:30:35.239 --> 00:30:41.000
I say, you know, I think, you know, think about all these things in the hospital, and they we all we talk about all the things they're doing in labor.
00:30:41.159 --> 00:31:30.690
They say, by the way, this comes from a domestic abuse hotline.
00:31:31.089 --> 00:31:38.609
You know, and and how that I'm sure plays out into postpartum mood disorders, for example, which we see are skyrocketing.
00:31:38.850 --> 00:31:43.089
None of that is shifting, none of that is changing, is actually getting worse and worse.
00:31:43.330 --> 00:31:54.690
And of course it's getting worse when we have all of these interventions and our the mother baby diet is uh you know separated or not even looked at as important.
00:31:55.009 --> 00:31:59.970
And then we have an abusive relationship with our provider.
00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:03.089
You know, sometimes it's it's not even just the OB, right?
00:32:03.170 --> 00:32:08.850
Sometimes we have even the medwife, for example, quote unquote, which I'm hearing become more and more popular.
00:32:09.009 --> 00:32:13.810
But we we're seeing that this isn't this isn't working, right?
00:32:14.049 --> 00:32:20.690
And I'm wondering what what mindset shifts are hardest for physicians to make?
00:32:21.009 --> 00:32:29.170
And and why are they so important into changing the way that we view birth and postpartum so that we can change the system?
00:32:29.490 --> 00:32:31.810
Let me make sure I understand what you're asking me.
00:32:32.049 --> 00:32:35.009
How do we get doctors on board?
00:32:35.170 --> 00:32:36.930
Is that sort of what you're asking?
00:32:37.330 --> 00:32:44.609
You know, you've you've worked with so many providers who come to you for these training uh for these trainings and the things that you do.
00:32:44.770 --> 00:32:47.250
Like what what mindset shifts are the parties for them?
00:32:47.730 --> 00:32:49.089
Very few doctors come.
00:32:50.609 --> 00:32:52.450
Um I've had some.
00:32:52.609 --> 00:32:55.970
I mean I've even had a couple maternal fetal medicine people take it.
00:32:56.210 --> 00:32:58.370
But these are these are unicorns.
00:32:58.450 --> 00:33:08.770
Uh a lot of them take it, knowing full well that they'll go back and they won't be able to use the skills that they learn anyway, um regularly or plan, but they want to know what to do if they have an unplanned breach that shows up.
00:33:08.850 --> 00:33:30.370
Uh, which I think the fact that medical uh OB residency programs are no longer teaching this skill to doctors who are supposed to be professionals in all things pregnancy, and they don't know how to deal with one out of every 20 women that walk into the office with a breach or twin pregnancy who has a breach baby in it, um, is embarrassing that they don't know how to do that.
00:33:30.690 --> 00:33:46.370
So these people come, these doctors that come, these rare doctors that come, they do so because they haven't forgotten what their mission is, which is to provide the best care possible to their client, to take care of their client.
00:33:46.450 --> 00:33:48.850
Their fiduciary duty is to their client.
00:33:49.410 --> 00:33:57.250
Most doctors right now, their fiduciary duty is conflicted because as a salaried employee, you can't just you can't just be loyal to your client.
00:33:57.410 --> 00:33:59.250
You have to be loyal to your employer too.
00:33:59.410 --> 00:34:10.129
And if your employer says we don't let people go past 41 weeks, then you have to skew your counseling to tell a woman that she can't go past 41 weeks, even though in your heart you know that it's okay to go past 41 weeks.
00:34:10.369 --> 00:34:14.369
So you can see the dilemma that that that doctors have in that.
00:34:14.529 --> 00:34:23.409
Um, when I teach this, when I what I'd like to see happen is I'd like to see um them have a better understanding of their own psychology.
00:34:23.650 --> 00:34:29.009
If you if you don't understand the problem, if you don't see the problem, then you can't fix it.
00:34:29.170 --> 00:34:39.650
And there's a huge cognitive dissonance that goes on in the medicalized birth model to think that that their system is is doing good because the alternative is unthinkable.
00:34:39.889 --> 00:34:56.129
And yet, if you look at the data, the rising C-section rate, the rising induction rate, the rising rate of postpartum hemorrhage, the rising rate of NICU admissions, the more ultrasounds, the more color flow doppler, the more continuous monitoring, the more things that have they been done, and yet the outcomes are not getting better.
00:34:56.289 --> 00:34:57.889
So, how do they rationalize that?
00:34:58.049 --> 00:35:02.129
Well, they they use cognitive dissonance and techniques to solve that.
00:35:02.369 --> 00:35:06.369
They basically can't admit that they're that they're there those things are wrong.
00:35:06.609 --> 00:35:08.369
And how do you get people to change their mind?
00:35:08.529 --> 00:35:11.650
Is you have to get them first to see that there's a problem in the first place.
00:35:13.170 --> 00:35:21.569
And that's a very difficult thing to do because we don't really have access to the medical schools and the residency programs, they're very closed off.
00:35:21.730 --> 00:35:23.889
I mean, I teach breach and twin skills.
00:35:24.049 --> 00:35:26.609
Breach Without Borders teaches breach and twin skills.
00:35:26.769 --> 00:35:28.690
We're about it in the world.
00:35:28.849 --> 00:35:29.489
That's it.
00:35:29.730 --> 00:35:39.089
You'd think that residency, I could if I could have 10 residents for one day, I could teach them breach and twin skills.
00:35:39.329 --> 00:35:42.289
And I could teach them a lot of what's wrong with their model.
00:35:43.250 --> 00:35:49.569
But residency programs are not going to let me or even Breach Without Borders in very often.
00:35:49.730 --> 00:35:50.929
It's very rare.
00:35:51.809 --> 00:35:52.929
Is it ego?
00:35:53.329 --> 00:35:57.969
Is it or is it a cognitive dissonance saying, well, he's that crazy guy that does home breaches?
00:35:58.049 --> 00:36:00.369
Well, why would I let him come and talk to our residents?
00:36:00.690 --> 00:36:01.569
Right, right.
00:36:02.049 --> 00:36:09.249
When you do all these things, you make recovery, getting back to the postpartum thing, you make recovery more difficult for the mothers.
00:36:09.409 --> 00:36:13.329
And when you do all these interventions, you're setting them up for failure.
00:36:13.569 --> 00:36:23.649
There was a the um England and Australia a year or two ago had uh government hearings on obstetrical trauma.
00:36:23.729 --> 00:36:28.769
And around 40 to 45% of women reported obstetrical trauma at the time of birth.
00:36:28.929 --> 00:36:35.249
And I can tell you it's probably double that because some people don't consider being spoken to harshly as trauma.
00:36:36.529 --> 00:36:39.169
They don't understand the the probably the definition of trauma.
00:36:39.329 --> 00:36:46.609
They think trauma being injured or something like that, but that's not necessarily what's that that's physical trauma, but we have psychological trauma as well.
00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:59.089
And when a woman is psychologically traumatized or her husband is psychologically traumatized through fear and the manipulation that that can you that you can do from fear, then your recovery is going to be more difficult.
00:36:59.329 --> 00:37:16.209
I know women who who who love their children, their children are in their 20s, and they're still upset every time they think about the birth of that child and how it went and how they were treated and how they were ignored and how their their needs were not listened to.
00:37:16.449 --> 00:37:18.369
So that trauma goes on forever.
00:37:18.449 --> 00:37:21.969
And so that's got to affect the postpartum period of time.
00:37:22.449 --> 00:37:27.889
It has to affect the hormones you're secreting while you're caring for your baby, while you're feeding your baby.
00:37:27.969 --> 00:37:31.649
It's got to it may even affect the the production of milk.
00:37:31.889 --> 00:37:33.729
Um, is anybody looking?
00:37:34.049 --> 00:37:34.529
Maybe.
00:37:34.769 --> 00:37:35.249
I don't know.
00:37:35.409 --> 00:37:37.409
That I don't know that there's data on that.
00:37:37.649 --> 00:37:43.009
But it does, you don't necessarily need studies to tell you what common sense would tell you.
00:37:43.249 --> 00:37:43.889
Yes.
00:37:44.129 --> 00:37:45.969
Yes, absolutely.
00:37:46.209 --> 00:37:51.889
Yet they'll they'll always quote, by the way, they studies, first of all, sidelight.
00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:58.049
Um, research in obstetrics, research in all medicine now is is compromised.
00:37:58.449 --> 00:38:02.049
Uh, you know, you can only get things published if it's the narrative.
00:38:02.209 --> 00:38:04.929
It's very difficult uh to get things published against the narrative.
00:38:05.089 --> 00:38:11.329
One, the journals won't publish it if it goes against uh what Big Pharma is doing, because journals are sponsored by Big Pharma.
00:38:11.889 --> 00:38:22.049
Journals uh won't publish it if it goes against the ACOG narrative, um, because there, you know, there's a hierarchy there.
00:38:22.289 --> 00:38:27.009
So it's very difficult for me to get something like Home Breach and Home Twin articles published.
00:38:27.249 --> 00:38:35.889
I approached the Green Journal, that's the that's the American College of Wiggy Wen's journal, it's the premier journal in the United States on obstetrics about my two papers.
00:38:36.129 --> 00:38:46.529
They wouldn't have anything to do with me because ACOG doesn't believe home birth in uh for anybody, but let alone for breaching twins, they think it's it's outrageous.
00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:54.129
Um yet they don't offer breaching twins in the hospital, and they don't they don't get mad at hospitals that don't do that.
00:38:54.449 --> 00:39:05.889
They're not making an effort, they make far more effort to get women to get vaccinated while they're pregnant than they make it for women to have choices in how to catch how to deliver their baby.
00:39:06.209 --> 00:39:06.769
Yeah.
00:39:07.009 --> 00:39:07.329
Right.
00:39:07.569 --> 00:39:09.329
So their prior their priorities are different.
00:39:09.409 --> 00:39:13.089
So we have we have a problem with this thing about wanting data.
00:39:13.169 --> 00:39:17.809
And then by the way, if data comes out that's contrary to the narrative, it's ignored anyway.
00:39:17.969 --> 00:39:19.089
So why do they do that?
00:39:19.169 --> 00:39:31.009
And this is the part that makes it really hard to change, Miranda, because when people are invested in something, getting them to see that the error of their ways is really, really difficult to do.
00:39:31.409 --> 00:39:35.329
There's something, there's there's there's cognitivism, there's mass formation.
00:39:35.569 --> 00:39:43.969
Mass formation is a psychological term used for people that will give up their individuality, be part of a collective, be part of a group.
00:39:44.209 --> 00:39:47.729
There's fascinating, some fascinating studies on this sort of thing.
00:39:47.809 --> 00:39:55.329
But it's kind of why you're you know, neighbors that you that you used to have your kids play with and stuff like that during COVID, suddenly you couldn't play with their kids anymore.
00:39:55.409 --> 00:39:58.449
And if you had too many people in your backyard, they were calling the police.
00:39:58.609 --> 00:40:01.329
And how why do people suddenly do that?
00:40:01.569 --> 00:40:06.129
Why, why do they that and that's kind of defined by this thing called mass formation?
00:40:06.449 --> 00:40:19.969
I, you know, I don't know how you get through all that because it's extremely painful for people to realize after 20 years that, you know, I've been doing C-sections, you know, two-thirds of the C-sections I've been doing have been unnecessary.
00:40:20.129 --> 00:40:22.849
And I will tell you, how do I know that they're unnecessary?
00:40:23.089 --> 00:40:25.729
Because the C-section rate 50 years ago was 5%.
00:40:26.289 --> 00:40:29.809
It should be 10, 15% at the most.
00:40:29.969 --> 00:40:33.409
I don't know what it is in certain parts of Alaska, but it's I'm sure it's 30, 40%.
00:40:33.969 --> 00:40:34.289
Correct.
00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:42.609
Um, so that means that two out of every three C-sections being done are probably not necessary, yet no one admits to doing unnecessary C-section.
00:40:42.929 --> 00:40:44.209
How do you reach people like that?
00:40:44.369 --> 00:40:54.449
And and if we're getting back to the whole, again, the topic of the postpartum care, if they're not paid for it, if they're not taught this, if they think their system is working fine, why would they change it?
00:40:54.609 --> 00:41:02.049
So it's going to be up to the individual woman and a few of us outspoken people trying to get things to change.
00:41:02.289 --> 00:41:08.689
I've been to Washington a few times uh since this new administration took place with RFK Jr.
00:41:08.849 --> 00:41:10.769
as HHS secretary.
00:41:11.009 --> 00:41:15.889
Um, we've we've talked about maternity care, but it's very low on the radar right now.
00:41:16.049 --> 00:41:17.569
They're busy with doing other stuff.
00:41:17.729 --> 00:41:27.249
I can't stress to them enough how all the other stuff is related to how babies are developing in the womb and how they do it in the in the in the postpartum period.
00:41:27.409 --> 00:41:27.569
Yeah.
00:41:27.809 --> 00:41:36.129
Uh a lot of the things that happen downstream, that the things they're working on, like geoengineering and food and and vaccines and stuff, that they're all very important.
00:41:36.369 --> 00:41:49.249
But if we don't fix the way babies are being born and the way women are treated in pregnancy and postpartum, then we're we're not gonna make much of a dent in the in the problems.
00:41:49.569 --> 00:41:50.049
Yeah.
00:41:50.449 --> 00:41:55.889
One of the sayings that I have at postpartum university is you heal the mother, you heal the world.
00:41:56.129 --> 00:42:05.249
So when we really care for her and we hold her up and give her what she needs, kind of woman is going to emerge from that.
00:42:05.329 --> 00:42:11.889
She's going to be strong, she's going to be confident, she's going to raise a family that's going to feel good.
00:42:12.049 --> 00:42:17.969
She's going to make great decisions for her family, not out of fear, but out of feeling empowered.
00:42:18.369 --> 00:42:20.209
You and I are both witnesses to that.
00:42:20.449 --> 00:42:21.089
Yes.
00:42:21.409 --> 00:42:22.049
Yeah.
00:42:22.289 --> 00:42:24.689
Um, why why they don't believe it?
00:42:24.849 --> 00:42:28.929
Again, partly because doctors no longer are captains of the ship.
00:42:29.169 --> 00:42:34.849
They're again the the way they're treated in the system is not good for them either.
00:42:35.089 --> 00:42:36.689
They're put in a tough position.
00:42:36.929 --> 00:42:43.649
They're told to enforce rules that they have to know somewhere deep down inside are not right or certainly not the only option.
00:42:43.889 --> 00:42:50.129
And yet, if they go outside those boundaries, they themselves are going to put their careers at risk.
00:42:50.289 --> 00:42:55.649
Look what happened to doctors who said, don't get the vaccine, try ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.
00:42:55.889 --> 00:42:56.369
Oh, yeah.
00:42:56.529 --> 00:42:56.929
Yeah.
00:42:57.249 --> 00:43:04.449
They got, they lost their license, they lost their board certification, uh, they were fired from their job.
00:43:04.769 --> 00:43:10.289
Um, they were, you know, they were they were ostracized for having a different opinion.
00:43:10.449 --> 00:43:12.689
And maybe people say, well, that's really an extreme example.
00:43:12.849 --> 00:43:15.569
No, that's actually what exists in a hospital setting.
00:43:15.729 --> 00:43:25.569
If you work for a big hospital system, like the Alaska Native Health System or a Kaiser in Southern California or some other place, you can't go color out of the lines.
00:43:25.729 --> 00:43:26.609
You're not allowed.
00:43:26.769 --> 00:43:27.649
You'll get in trouble.
00:43:27.809 --> 00:43:48.689
Not only will you get in trouble with administration, but if you do something, and then by the way, that person goes into labor when you're not on call, and some other doctor has to take care of the fact that you let a woman go past 41 weeks, or you uh let a woman who had two previous cesarean sections choose to have a vaginal delivery, but you're not the doctor on call, then those other doctors are gonna come down on you.
00:43:48.849 --> 00:43:53.249
They're gonna feel like they got uh um ambushed.
00:43:53.649 --> 00:43:55.169
We've actually seen quite a bit of that.
00:43:55.329 --> 00:44:05.089
We've had a provider get completely ostracized and lose his license because a bunch of doctors ganged up on him when he was supporting home birth here.
00:44:05.729 --> 00:44:18.769
We've had another provider who gave her her patient a uh vaccine exemption pre-COVID for having an anaphylactic reaction.
00:44:19.249 --> 00:44:27.569
And within a couple years, she gave another uh uh exemption to another child who had an anaphylactic reaction.
00:44:27.809 --> 00:44:35.249
And she got a letter from the government demanding all of her papers, everything that she she was under complete review.
00:44:35.409 --> 00:44:40.289
They told her she was gonna lose her license, and she was just following exactly what they had told her to do.
00:44:40.609 --> 00:44:47.089
So how does a how does yeah, so how does a midwife or a doctor go outside the lines?
00:44:47.249 --> 00:44:48.129
Yeah, how do they do that?
00:44:48.209 --> 00:44:54.609
I mean, I know midwives that do that, they risk everything to give women the choices that they deserve.
00:44:54.849 --> 00:45:19.809
And what's really odd about it all is that if you look at all these organizations, like American College of Obi-Juana, the American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, they all have statements on ethics and they all say the same things that a decisionally capable woman should have the right to choose whatever she wants, that use of coercion of any kind, including uh child protective services or anything like that, is strictly forbidden.
00:45:20.049 --> 00:45:22.369
Um, that sort of thing.
00:45:22.529 --> 00:45:25.329
They all say it and then they completely ignore it.
00:45:25.489 --> 00:45:29.969
But then if you ask doctors, do they follow ACOG guidelines, they'll all say, Yeah, we follow ACOG guidelines.
00:45:30.129 --> 00:45:31.409
Well, you don't follow this one.
00:45:31.569 --> 00:45:34.449
People should look up ACOG guideline number 664.
00:45:34.689 --> 00:45:35.889
They should just look it up.
00:45:36.049 --> 00:45:38.129
You'll read it and you won't, you won't believe it.
00:45:38.369 --> 00:45:39.329
And what is that?
00:45:40.049 --> 00:45:45.009
It's the opposite of what what you what's going on in hospitals and doctors' offices every day.
00:45:45.089 --> 00:45:47.009
Um, and they ignore that one.
00:45:47.329 --> 00:45:57.169
So I know we're we've kind of gone off the topic of really sticking with how do we get postpartum care to be um better respected.
00:45:57.329 --> 00:46:03.809
And I think that one thing is that that families need to understand that the system isn't there to support them.
00:46:04.209 --> 00:46:09.409
Two, that how you're cared for afterwards has to be your responsibility.
00:46:09.649 --> 00:46:17.889
Three, don't rely on your insurance card or your Medicaid card to be the only way that you get your care afterwards.
00:46:18.129 --> 00:46:31.009
Don't wait till the last minute to find out that you don't have, you only have six weeks postpartum, or you you they don't cover lactation consultants, or they don't, you know, find these things out ahead of time, check it out ahead of time.
00:46:31.169 --> 00:46:33.249
Know your community, know what your options are.
00:46:33.329 --> 00:46:43.649
And if you have to essentially maybe move to Ohio and live with grandma for your to have your baby and your recovery, then that's where you have to go or whatever.
00:46:43.809 --> 00:46:46.529
I'm not saying Ohio is a better place than in than Alaska or anything.
00:46:46.609 --> 00:46:47.089
I don't know.
00:46:47.249 --> 00:46:48.289
I just made that up.
00:46:48.449 --> 00:47:03.649
But um make put the effort in and find a way uh to give yourself that time, that special time with your baby uh that's best for you, it's best for your baby, it's best for your family.
00:47:03.809 --> 00:47:08.049
Um, make your husband an integral part of the process.
00:47:08.689 --> 00:47:12.129
Do not let him get alienated, do not let him get pushed to the side.
00:47:12.289 --> 00:47:14.449
Ask him what his concerns are.
00:47:14.689 --> 00:47:18.849
A husband who's included in this, who supports his wife.
00:47:19.089 --> 00:47:21.489
Listen, men just want respect from their woman.
00:47:21.809 --> 00:47:38.289
And most men, I mean, there's always exceptions, but uh a man who's involved in the in the pregnancy and birth of his child, who witnesses his the strength of his wife, who supports her when she's being told she can't do something.
00:47:38.449 --> 00:47:40.529
Excuse me, um, can we step outside?
00:47:40.689 --> 00:47:42.289
And I want to have a conversation with you.
00:47:42.449 --> 00:47:43.889
You can't talk to my wife like that.
00:47:44.049 --> 00:47:45.489
My wife doesn't want to hear those things.
00:47:45.649 --> 00:47:48.689
She doesn't want this intervention, she doesn't want a vaginal exam right now.
00:47:48.849 --> 00:47:49.409
Go away.
00:47:49.569 --> 00:48:01.009
And stands up for his wife, as opposed to just sits in a chair while his wife is being, I don't want to use the word abuse, it's a little bit strong, but be being disrespected.
00:48:01.329 --> 00:48:03.409
Her wishes are being disrespected.
00:48:03.569 --> 00:48:05.729
Uh, she's being traumatized.
00:48:05.889 --> 00:48:10.369
Um, she's not gonna look at her husband the same way as someone, husband who's defending her.
00:48:10.449 --> 00:48:18.289
And the man who helps catch his baby or is just bears witness to it, um, is going to be a better father, he's gonna be a better husband.
00:48:18.529 --> 00:48:23.329
I don't, again, don't there are studies that say that, but you don't need studies to say that.
00:48:23.809 --> 00:48:29.809
Um this is a time when you can really build that postpartum time, is when you can really build your relationship.
00:48:30.049 --> 00:48:37.649
Men, you need to know that the woman, you know, she may be quite capable of going out and chopping wood, but that's not what she's supposed to be doing.
00:48:37.889 --> 00:48:40.689
She's supposed to be nurturing her baby 24-7.
00:48:41.169 --> 00:48:48.209
Give that baby the best start in life, give that baby's immune system the best start in life, the best microbiome.
00:48:48.609 --> 00:48:53.809
Um beautiful, the happy, the happy hormones that she can be secreting when she's breastfeeding.
00:48:53.969 --> 00:48:56.449
And by the way, there are things that you and I don't even understand.
00:48:56.529 --> 00:49:00.049
There's probably electromagnetic things that are going on, there's auras.
00:49:00.289 --> 00:49:01.409
Um, we all know.
00:49:01.489 --> 00:49:05.569
I mean, a mother knows when something isn't right.
00:49:05.809 --> 00:49:07.249
How do you explain that?
00:49:07.489 --> 00:49:08.049
Yeah.
00:49:08.609 --> 00:49:13.569
You know, she's connected to, you know, the child's outside playing and suddenly she goes, hmm.
00:49:13.809 --> 00:49:18.129
And she runs outside, and yeah, he fell down and skinned his knee or something like that.
00:49:18.289 --> 00:49:19.729
And she she knew.
00:49:19.889 --> 00:49:21.889
So there's more to it than we even understand.
00:49:21.969 --> 00:49:27.569
But since again, like I said earlier, we since doc since medicine can't quantify that, it doesn't matter.
00:49:28.369 --> 00:49:32.289
And by the way, if they can't get an RVS code for it and bill for it, then it really doesn't matter.
00:49:32.609 --> 00:49:33.409
That's so true.
00:49:33.969 --> 00:49:34.769
It is true.
00:49:34.929 --> 00:49:35.249
Yeah.
00:49:35.809 --> 00:49:37.809
It's not cynical, it's true.
00:49:37.889 --> 00:49:39.729
It's it sounds awful.
00:49:40.449 --> 00:49:50.929
But I'm telling you, as somebody who spent all these years in both systems, there's there's just such a difference in the in the ideal midwifery model of care.
00:49:51.009 --> 00:49:54.289
Now, the problem with a midwifery model of care is you can't do volume with it.
00:49:54.449 --> 00:49:58.689
So there aren't enough midwives to go around, there aren't enough do lists to go around.
00:49:59.089 --> 00:50:02.929
And by the way, licensing, I'm going to go off on a tangent here.
00:50:03.089 --> 00:50:06.289
Licensing is not something that makes you better at what you're doing.
00:50:06.609 --> 00:50:07.249
Amen.
00:50:07.889 --> 00:50:08.209
Yes.
00:50:08.529 --> 00:50:13.089
Licensing is a way for the government to control you and take money from you every year to pay for your license.
00:50:13.249 --> 00:50:13.569
Yeah.
00:50:13.729 --> 00:50:15.569
Um, how do I know that?
00:50:15.969 --> 00:50:28.449
Well, because some of the dumbest things ever done, some of the most vicious things ever done, have been done by licensed, board-certified fellows of the American College of OBGYN.
00:50:29.169 --> 00:50:35.569
So it doesn't having those credentials does not make you a good practitioner.
00:50:35.729 --> 00:50:38.209
It does not mean that you are wise.
00:50:38.369 --> 00:50:40.049
It does not mean anything.
00:50:47.889 --> 00:50:48.609
That's true.
00:50:49.169 --> 00:50:52.529
They have the same degree as the person who graduated first in medical school.
00:50:52.769 --> 00:50:56.609
I was board certified by the American Board of Obi Juan for 20 years.
00:50:56.849 --> 00:51:01.489
And then it just doesn't work out for me to do it anymore.
00:51:01.729 --> 00:51:03.009
So I gave it up.
00:51:03.249 --> 00:51:07.809
And did I suddenly become a worse doctor the day after I gave it up?
00:51:07.969 --> 00:51:08.209
No.
00:51:08.369 --> 00:51:12.609
But there are people who will say, well, he's not board certified anymore, therefore he's not qualified.
00:51:12.769 --> 00:51:26.129
I would challenge pretty much any obstetrician on my narrow, I stay in my narrow lane of um of breaching twins to challenge any obstetrician, whether or not I'm I'm qualified or not to do those things.
00:51:26.369 --> 00:51:29.889
Yeah, they'll put the they'll they'll label, they'll throw these things on credentials.
00:51:29.969 --> 00:51:33.809
So licensing, and now states like some states want to start licensing doulas.
00:51:34.449 --> 00:51:35.889
I was just gonna bring that up.
00:51:36.049 --> 00:51:47.729
This is a whole thing now with uh with licensing and doulas and insurance coverage, and and I'm watching the doula completely fall apart because they're like, Well, I'm licensed and you're not.
00:51:48.209 --> 00:51:52.609
And it's like now you're turning each other you're turning against each other.
00:51:52.689 --> 00:51:58.209
You you don't even understand what this is doing to the entire field of doula care.
00:51:59.249 --> 00:52:02.209
And your participants know history are doomed to repeat it.
00:52:02.449 --> 00:52:09.889
The the idea that that doulas would that some doulas, there's always just like midwives, some midwives will want to be licensed, so want to be regulated.
00:52:10.289 --> 00:52:17.249
Some doulas, if you start to regulate them, if you start to take insurance, you're excuse the word, well, I don't want to say it, you're F.
00:52:17.809 --> 00:52:18.129
Okay.
00:52:18.769 --> 00:52:28.209
Because what's going to happen is that they're going to start to regulate what you can and cannot do, what clients you can and cannot take, and what you're worth.
00:52:28.769 --> 00:52:35.249
So if you if, and again, if they if insurance starts covering doulas, then people don't know the difference.
00:52:35.649 --> 00:52:46.769
So if you normally charge$2,000 as a doula, but insurance is paying$800, they're going to find a doula that takes their insurance, because therefore it's going to cost them nothing as opposed to$2,000.
00:52:47.489 --> 00:52:50.689
Without any real thought about why this woman is charging$2,000.
00:52:51.009 --> 00:52:52.529
Maybe she's better than the one that's.
00:52:52.849 --> 00:52:55.569
And so that's going to lead to conflict.
00:52:55.649 --> 00:52:57.889
It's going to lead to decreasing quality.
00:52:58.049 --> 00:53:00.449
And by the way, here's a good question for anybody listening.
00:53:00.689 --> 00:53:05.009
Doula's do a lot of things, but one of the things they do better than anything else is nurturing.
00:53:05.169 --> 00:53:06.689
How do you regulate nurturing?
00:53:06.849 --> 00:53:09.809
You're going to have like a checklist.
00:53:11.169 --> 00:53:14.689
I mean, some people are good at it, other people are not good at it.
00:53:14.929 --> 00:53:17.169
So, how how how are they going to do it?
00:53:17.329 --> 00:53:23.169
So they'll always use safety, by the way, as the canard for why they do something.
00:53:23.329 --> 00:53:25.649
They'll use fear to get you to worry about something.
00:53:25.729 --> 00:53:30.209
And then they'll say, we'll come in and we'll we'll license these people so that it's safe.
00:53:30.369 --> 00:53:33.729
In my old state of California, they licensed hairdressers.
00:53:34.849 --> 00:53:37.009
Now, why do they need to do that?
00:53:37.169 --> 00:53:38.609
So they could collect fees.
00:53:38.849 --> 00:53:43.009
They're saying, oh, because we want to regulate, we want to make sure that they're they're hygiene, they're safe.
00:53:43.249 --> 00:53:44.849
Can I do that as a consumer?
00:53:45.009 --> 00:53:45.889
Can I walk in?
00:53:45.969 --> 00:53:54.289
How do I mean the idea that that that licensing of hairdressers, improved hairdressing, I can't.
00:53:54.529 --> 00:53:56.129
I mean, we really are stupid.
00:53:56.209 --> 00:53:58.129
We really do deserve to be extinct, I think.
00:53:58.849 --> 00:54:07.009
You know, so it's it's so funny this conversation, because what we're seeing in the doula world is that we are we're telling them what trainings that they must have.
00:54:07.169 --> 00:54:09.969
So we're we're telling them you can't have these trainings, they don't count.
00:54:10.129 --> 00:54:13.329
So these organizations over here, they don't pay us anything.
00:54:13.489 --> 00:54:15.009
So they they don't matter.
00:54:15.249 --> 00:54:19.409
And we'll only certify you if you have these specific trainings.
00:54:19.569 --> 00:54:25.969
And then what we've witnessed in the midwifery world over and over again is when we have these licensing fees.
00:54:26.129 --> 00:54:30.209
Now, you know, oh, it's legal and you can you can be a licensed midwife.
00:54:30.289 --> 00:54:32.289
You know, they did this in the state of Alaska.
00:54:32.529 --> 00:54:41.489
And then they there were a lot of people who didn't particularly like the fact that midwife midwives were now licensed and doing their thing.
00:54:41.569 --> 00:54:42.449
And so what do they do?
00:54:42.529 --> 00:54:47.169
They increased those fees significantly, so it became almost unobtainable to have.
00:54:47.409 --> 00:54:53.169
Because a midwife can't they get paid thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars per year to stay in business.
00:54:53.249 --> 00:54:54.369
They don't make that much.
00:54:54.689 --> 00:54:55.969
No, they don't make that much.
00:54:56.129 --> 00:55:07.249
And by the way, midwifery school, midwifery schools are becoming medicalized because the uh the uh organizations that run midwifery have been taken over by academics.
00:55:07.489 --> 00:55:11.729
Um and the same thing will, you know, the same thing will happen to do's.
00:55:12.129 --> 00:55:13.249
It's already happening.
00:55:13.409 --> 00:55:14.689
We're seeing it repeat.
00:55:14.929 --> 00:55:15.409
Right.
00:55:15.729 --> 00:55:24.369
So this gets back to the whole thing of people taking responsibility and understanding that this is not something you should delegate to your insurance card.
00:55:24.529 --> 00:55:26.689
This is not like having your appendix taken out.
00:55:26.849 --> 00:55:27.329
All right.
00:55:27.569 --> 00:55:30.289
People spend a lot of money for plastic surgery.
00:55:30.529 --> 00:55:30.849
Okay.
00:55:32.929 --> 00:55:33.889
Can you imagine?
00:55:33.969 --> 00:55:35.809
By the way, it's a really interesting thing.
00:55:35.969 --> 00:55:48.609
If insurance started to cover breast augmentation, um I can tell you that the the quality of there are most plastic surgeons wouldn't be stupid enough to take insurance.
00:55:48.929 --> 00:55:51.329
And would you want to go to the lowest bidder?
00:55:51.649 --> 00:55:56.609
I remember a period of time, um, I had LASIK surgery on my eyes, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago.
00:55:56.689 --> 00:55:58.209
I don't remember how long ago it was.
00:55:58.449 --> 00:56:03.249
And it used to, I think it was$2,000 an eye or$2,500 an eye in those days.
00:56:03.329 --> 00:56:05.409
I don't remember what it was, but it was expensive.
00:56:05.569 --> 00:56:12.129
But then you started seeing billboards around Southern California, you know, LASIK surgery,$399 per eye.
00:56:12.289 --> 00:56:13.729
Oh, yeah, I'm gonna go there.
00:56:13.969 --> 00:56:18.209
Propaganda, advertising, gaslighting.
00:56:18.449 --> 00:56:23.889
This is this is the this is the nature of a of not just medicine, it's the nature of everything.
00:56:24.129 --> 00:56:26.689
But you have to be the discerning consumer.
00:56:27.009 --> 00:56:29.889
And you and I both want the same thing.
00:56:30.049 --> 00:56:32.849
We want women to enjoy their pregnancies.
00:56:33.089 --> 00:56:41.569
We want women, whether they end up with a cesarean or not, we want them to understand why they're the path that they they went on and not be gaslit.
00:56:41.729 --> 00:56:43.649
We want them not to be traumatized.
00:56:43.889 --> 00:56:51.329
We want them to have the postpartum care that they deserve, which they're not going to get from their insurance company and their obstetric model.
00:56:51.489 --> 00:56:52.769
You're not gonna get that.
00:56:53.009 --> 00:57:00.689
So, you know, sometimes it's just it's it's if you have a uh family members, you know, around in the old days, it was the family that took care of you.
00:57:00.849 --> 00:57:03.889
You gave birth in the home and the family stayed around and they took care of you.
00:57:04.129 --> 00:57:06.369
Other women, there were wise women.
00:57:06.609 --> 00:57:10.129
Now, now these wise women, they can't use the term midwife anymore.
00:57:10.289 --> 00:57:18.609
Some states and some countries have have captured the word, so they have to call themselves things like traditional birth companion or traditional birth attendant.
00:57:19.089 --> 00:57:21.009
And these are just wise women.
00:57:21.249 --> 00:57:28.609
It was the neighbor woman who came and helped you have your baby and then went back to be you know taking care of her chickens.
00:57:28.849 --> 00:57:30.209
That's how it was done.
00:57:30.449 --> 00:57:37.009
And by the way, other than the whole idea of germ theory and infection and stuff like that, the outcomes weren't a whole lot worse.
00:57:37.889 --> 00:57:40.689
We've sterilized birth, we've taken it out of the home.
00:57:40.769 --> 00:57:42.609
We've sterilized death, by the way, too.
00:57:43.169 --> 00:57:48.609
Most people live their entire life never watching someone take their last breath, and they never watch a baby coming into the world.
00:57:48.689 --> 00:57:50.609
They've never seen it except on video.
00:57:50.849 --> 00:57:55.569
They they haven't, which is grossly, you know, not even realistic.
00:57:55.809 --> 00:57:56.689
So anyways.
00:57:57.089 --> 00:57:58.609
It's not human, it's not human.
00:57:58.769 --> 00:57:59.009
Yeah.
00:57:59.169 --> 00:58:14.929
And that's one of the things that happened during COVID when you saw Granny had to die alone in the nursing home because she wasn't allowed to have visitors, uh, or people who are so fearful that they wouldn't let people come within, you know, a hundred feet of their newborn baby.
00:58:15.089 --> 00:58:15.409
Yeah.
00:58:15.489 --> 00:58:17.889
I mean, the mind is very easy to manipulate.
00:58:18.129 --> 00:58:18.529
It is.
00:58:18.689 --> 00:58:21.489
And you know, people will say that you and I are trying to manipulate minds now.
00:58:21.729 --> 00:58:23.249
No, I'm trying to get people to think.
00:58:23.489 --> 00:58:25.329
Don't believe anything I say.
00:58:25.809 --> 00:58:26.849
Go look it up.
00:58:27.009 --> 00:58:32.369
But be careful when you're searching, because I can tell you that searching on the internet is also skewed now.
00:58:32.529 --> 00:58:34.369
It's been skewed for a while.
00:58:34.769 --> 00:58:35.729
How do I know that?
00:58:35.809 --> 00:58:37.009
Because I've tested it.
00:58:37.729 --> 00:58:43.569
I'll put in like a specific article that I'm looking for and it won't show up on the first page.
00:58:43.729 --> 00:58:47.649
Or I'll put something in about hydroxychloroquine and COVID.
00:58:47.889 --> 00:58:54.529
And the first two pages are all about how it's it's uh or Ivermectin, it's it's horsepaced.
00:58:54.609 --> 00:58:59.649
It's you know, it's it's the dead the negatives of it as opposed to the the positives of it.
00:58:59.889 --> 00:59:00.209
Yeah.
00:59:00.369 --> 00:59:01.889
Or it won't come up at all.
00:59:02.129 --> 00:59:03.009
It's just even there.
00:59:03.409 --> 00:59:09.089
Be careful with Chat GPT or AI because AI will tell you what it's programmed to tell you.
00:59:09.249 --> 00:59:19.009
So whenever you whenever you ask AI a question, um, I've learned that what you need to do is ask the ask AI, is this data based on good science?
00:59:19.569 --> 00:59:22.449
Or is this the only uh is this the only answer there is?
00:59:22.609 --> 00:59:26.689
And then and then suddenly they become truthful and they'll go, well, actually, no, it's not.
00:59:26.849 --> 00:59:30.289
There are there's good evidence to show that the the alternative is also true.
00:59:30.529 --> 00:59:36.769
But if you just rely on the initial answer or the how many people go to page two or three on a on a search?
00:59:37.649 --> 00:59:38.769
Almost nobody.
00:59:38.929 --> 00:59:42.289
Sometimes I do it just to see what's on page three or four or five.
00:59:43.649 --> 00:59:45.489
I have time to do these things now.
00:59:45.569 --> 00:59:50.609
I tell you, I mean, this is nothing to do with our topic, but what has anything to do with it?
00:59:50.849 --> 00:59:55.889
When the Hunter Biden laptop story came out, there's a conservative news outlet called Breitbart.
00:59:55.969 --> 00:59:56.929
Some of you may have heard of it.
00:59:57.009 --> 00:59:58.049
I don't know if you have.
00:59:58.289 --> 01:00:01.569
I put in Breitbart, Hunter Biden laptop.
01:00:01.649 --> 01:00:08.449
And the first two pages were all New York Times, USA Today, Yahoo News, NBC, MSNBC.
01:00:08.769 --> 01:00:17.089
I didn't find Breitbart story on the Hunter Biden laptop, which was, and all those stories said the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.
01:00:17.329 --> 01:00:26.049
I didn't find one that talked about what I wanted to find out, which was like, we know it's true, let's let's read about it, to like page five or six.
01:00:26.209 --> 01:00:29.649
And yet I put Breitbart as the first word and it didn't come up.
01:00:29.809 --> 01:00:34.609
So we live in a really, really weird time where it's really hard to know who to trust.
01:00:34.849 --> 01:00:38.209
And you can't abdicate your responsibility.
01:00:38.369 --> 01:00:38.609
Amen.
01:00:38.929 --> 01:00:43.249
And you can't assume that the obstetrical model of care has your best interest at heart.
01:00:43.409 --> 01:00:44.209
And they don't.
01:00:44.369 --> 01:00:45.409
And how do I know they don't?
01:00:45.569 --> 01:00:47.329
All you have to do is look at outcomes.
01:00:47.489 --> 01:00:52.529
They may be the nicest people in the world, but it's not about their intentions, it's about outcomes.
01:00:52.689 --> 01:00:54.689
And our outcomes are getting worse.
01:00:54.849 --> 01:00:55.169
Yeah.
01:00:55.409 --> 01:00:57.089
So why would you trust them?
01:00:57.249 --> 01:00:59.969
And they've lied to you over and over again.
01:01:00.209 --> 01:01:05.329
Uh, I have found that most midwives don't have a financial interest in what they're doing.
01:01:05.489 --> 01:01:09.169
They do it because they believe in it and they're not compromised.
01:01:09.249 --> 01:01:18.049
And therefore, that's why I believe in their model of care far more than I believe in the model that I trained and used in the first several years of my practice.
01:01:18.289 --> 01:01:18.849
Right.
01:01:19.489 --> 01:01:21.889
Stu, this has been absolutely incredible.
01:01:22.049 --> 01:01:26.129
I think you and I can go forever and ever on this conversation.
01:01:26.369 --> 01:01:32.289
Where can people find more of your work and and your deep dives into things that you have to share with everyone?
01:01:32.929 --> 01:01:34.449
Everything is birthing instincts.
01:01:35.009 --> 01:01:47.249
So uh my website is birthing instincts.com, and from there there are links to the some of the papers I published on home birth and home breach and twin birthing, um, as well as some case reports and other things.
01:01:47.409 --> 01:01:54.849
Um Birthing Instincts Podcast has its own website called the Birthing Instincts Podcast.com, and you can find that.
01:01:55.249 --> 01:02:01.409
On your uh podcast apps, uh iTunes, um Apple, Spotify, it's all there.
01:02:01.969 --> 01:02:06.209
Uh Instagram, surprisingly, it's at birthing instincts.
01:02:08.449 --> 01:02:16.049
And uh if you are interested in having me come and do a two-day seminar with that, you can find that on the Birthing Instincts website.
01:02:16.209 --> 01:02:20.369
Uh, you can send in a request and my my sister Raquel will get out to you.
01:02:20.529 --> 01:02:22.609
Um, I would love to come back to Alaska.
01:02:22.689 --> 01:02:31.329
I taught one in Alaska um several years ago at the birth center where the doctor is no longer licensed, I believe.
01:02:31.489 --> 01:02:31.649
Yeah.
01:02:31.889 --> 01:02:33.409
In in Wasilla, I think.
01:02:33.569 --> 01:02:35.889
And um I actually remember you coming.
01:02:36.049 --> 01:02:40.529
It was not something that I was aware of at the time, but it uh yeah.
01:02:41.169 --> 01:02:51.089
Yeah, and I my the highlight of that for me was one see seeing a moose in my backyard, and two, um going on one of those uh excursions where you go up to see the northern lights.
01:02:51.249 --> 01:02:56.609
You leave at like eight o'clock at night, you get there around one in the morning, you stay for a few hours and you come back home.
01:02:56.769 --> 01:02:58.049
It's like a four-hour drive.
01:02:58.129 --> 01:03:04.209
I I can't imagine why in Alaska you have to drive four hours to see the northern lights, but you don't, especially if you are in Wasilla.
01:03:04.369 --> 01:03:08.369
So I'm in Palmer, which is like maybe 20, 30 minutes to where you were.
01:03:08.529 --> 01:03:11.489
Uh yeah, it took us four hours, it was a four-hour uh van ride.
01:03:11.969 --> 01:03:12.769
You see it all the time.
01:03:12.929 --> 01:03:16.529
Like I'm on 40 acres in the middle of nowhere.
01:03:16.609 --> 01:03:20.129
We we don't have a lot of light from the cities or anything like that.
01:03:20.209 --> 01:03:23.089
So we get to see a lot more than and we got a really good show.
01:03:23.169 --> 01:03:24.609
So I mean I remember that.
01:03:24.689 --> 01:03:27.969
But that's that's how people can essentially reach me.
01:03:28.209 --> 01:03:36.209
My passion right now is to advocate for choices and to teach the skills of breach and twin delivery and keep it alive.
01:03:36.449 --> 01:03:40.929
Uh, the the torchbearers of that skill right now are midwives.
01:03:41.249 --> 01:03:43.329
Obstetricians have become obtuse.
01:03:43.569 --> 01:03:44.929
Um, they're not interested in it.
01:03:45.009 --> 01:03:55.329
I think the individual obstetrician probably would love to learn it, but there's they're either cowed, um, or even if they were to learn it, they would be we'd be told that they can't use it anyway.
01:03:55.489 --> 01:04:07.569
But every now and then a woman's gonna walk in to labor and delivery and with a butt or a foot sticking out of the vagina, and they're gonna end up doing an emergency C-section on that woman 20 minutes later under general anesthesia.
01:04:07.729 --> 01:04:09.329
She's gonna have no memory of her birth.
01:04:09.489 --> 01:04:11.489
The baby's gonna probably end up in the NICU.
01:04:11.889 --> 01:04:23.009
Whereas if if she was completely dilated at that time, they could have the baby out in about 20 seconds, maybe 30 seconds, vaginally, knowing it knowing what to do, and yet they don't know what to do and they don't want to learn what to do.
01:04:23.089 --> 01:04:27.009
And I just I just find that um unacceptable.
01:04:27.089 --> 01:04:32.369
It's just unacceptable as the kindest word I can come up with uh for that kind of behavior.
01:04:32.609 --> 01:04:37.089
So I was lucky because I trained in an era where this was just considered to be normal.
01:04:37.329 --> 01:04:45.969
Um my residency program, I I worked at a very busy hospital uh and I got to see a lot of these things and they became very normal.
01:04:46.129 --> 01:04:55.089
As a matter of fact, we used to argue um between us, the residents, who gets the lady in room six with the breach baby or the twin baby, twin babies, because we wanted to do them.
01:04:55.329 --> 01:04:56.849
And everything then was hands-on.
01:04:56.929 --> 01:05:02.209
It's kind of the pendulum swung a little too far and went to hands-off the breach, which isn't a good idea either.
01:05:02.369 --> 01:05:06.209
Uh, you need to, there are certain skills you need, probably about a third of breaches need help.
01:05:06.289 --> 01:05:08.289
Uh, very simple maneuvers.
01:05:08.449 --> 01:05:18.129
I when I teach my two-day course, I can tell you the feedback is that nobody leaves my course as an expert in breach delivery, but everyone leaves my course knowing what to do if a breach were to walk in.
01:05:18.289 --> 01:05:25.089
If they were to go into the uh supermarket tomorrow and a lady was laying on the floor having a breach baby, they would they would know what to do.
01:05:25.329 --> 01:05:25.649
Okay.
01:05:26.529 --> 01:05:30.529
Um more so than than 99% of obstetricians.
01:05:30.689 --> 01:05:31.889
And that's embarrassing.
01:05:32.129 --> 01:05:33.089
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:33.329 --> 01:05:34.209
That absolutely is.
01:05:34.689 --> 01:05:35.729
And they should be embarrassed.
01:05:35.809 --> 01:05:41.809
And the leaders of my profession, those that run ACOG, those that run the residency programs, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
01:05:42.689 --> 01:05:45.249
Um, I'm not shy about saying that anymore.
01:05:45.409 --> 01:05:49.569
I don't really have any well, I've said it on this podcast many times.
01:05:49.649 --> 01:05:56.609
So the things that you're you're saying is just, you know, almost validating everything that I've been saying for the last several years.
01:05:56.769 --> 01:06:02.529
And so they're this is not new information for them, but it's it's so beautifully spoken in a in a different way.
01:06:02.689 --> 01:06:07.889
And I'm just very grateful for you and your work and everything here that you've shared with us.
01:06:08.129 --> 01:06:12.129
So thank you from the bottom of my heart for doing everything that you are doing.
01:06:12.209 --> 01:06:15.649
And of course, we're gonna have all the links to find you and your work.
01:06:15.809 --> 01:06:17.729
I highly recommend if you don't know Dr.
01:06:17.889 --> 01:06:19.569
Stew, you need to know Dr.
01:06:19.729 --> 01:06:20.049
Stew.
01:06:20.369 --> 01:06:22.289
So please go take a look at all of that.
01:06:22.529 --> 01:06:27.569
Is there anything that you wish I would have asked you that I didn't get to today?
01:06:27.969 --> 01:06:33.089
Oh, probably so many things, but I I I I don't know how to stop, so we should probably just stop here.
01:06:34.049 --> 01:06:35.809
I'm honored to be a guest on your show.
01:06:35.889 --> 01:06:38.769
And I hope our paths cross next time I'm up up north.
01:06:39.009 --> 01:06:39.809
Yeah, absolutely.
01:06:39.969 --> 01:06:40.609
Give me a call.
01:06:40.769 --> 01:06:41.569
I'll be here.
01:06:41.889 --> 01:06:42.529
Done.
01:06:47.249 --> 01:06:51.649
Thanks so much for being a part of this crucial conversation.
01:06:51.889 --> 01:06:55.489
I know you're dedicated to advancing postpartum care.
01:06:55.569 --> 01:07:07.729
And if you're ready to dig deeper, come join us on our newsletter where I share exclusive insights, resources, and the latest tools to help you make a lasting impact on postpartum health.
01:07:07.889 --> 01:07:12.769
Sign up at postpartum you the letter you.com, which is in the show notes.
01:07:12.929 --> 01:07:20.209
And if you found today's episode valuable, please leave a review to help us reach more providers like you.
01:07:20.449 --> 01:07:25.729
Together, we're building a future where mothers are fully supported and thriving.