Overthinking "Ready Or Not: Here I Come"

Crysda: Hello and welcome to Overthinking It on Purpose. I'm your host, Crysda and this is my co-host and sister, Kira. Are we ready to overthink some media? Yep. Heck yeah. So this week we are going to talk about Ready or Not, Here I Come. hopefully you've listened to the episode where we cover the first one. so Ready or Not, Here I Come came out in 2026. It was the same writers, Guy Busick, and R. Christopher Murphy, with the director being Matt Bettinelli Ulpin and Tyler Gillette. Notable actors on this one is Samara Weaving, Catherine Newton, and Elijah Wood. summary is Grace Macaulay battles old wounds. With her estranged sister, Faith Macaulay, while rival occult dynasties hunt them through a deadly contest that promises power, survival, and betrayal before dawn. Exactly. so what were your first thoughts about the sequel? That it was so fun. Yeah. so like I knew Elijah Wood is in it. He is one of my favorite actors, period, has been for a lot of years. and so like I was just absolutely looking forward to seeing him. I love seeing him anytime he returns to horror. But I also did really like the world kind of being built up a little bit. Because I did like the world. Yeah. And whenever you're looking at movies that kinda deal with cults and stuff like that, they're usually a one off and like that kind of situation and so the fact that we were able to get a chance to see a little bit more of the world isn't something we get a lot and so I was looking forward to that. obviously you know how I feel about this, but I'll say it again for the podcast. did you think that the way they built in the world fit really well following the first movie. Yeah. like how they built it up really fit like because of course this wouldn't be a one-off family kind of thing and the people that did have that kind of power would be extremely notable. Like there's the implication that because the family that she was gonna marry into. Like they ran a toy company. Yeah. And so that's not really affecting, although, you can look at a whole bunch of companies like IRL and you can see them like throughout history being involved in some really weird things. Disney. Okay. I actually wasn't going that dark. I was actually going darker. But I can't think of any specific examples, but like imagine something like Lego being involved with weapon systems on right fighter jets or stuff like that. That's a common thing to see. Well and so in Toy Soldiers or small soldiers. Small soldiers, yes. back in the day where the reason why those toys went crazy and tried to kill people was because they were weapons systems. Yeah, their CPUs, guidance systems. Obviously that's a movie, but you get what we're saying. But yeah, it's the same thing where it's like just because they're a toy company doesn't inherently mean that they're completely removed from anything nefarious. But you know, but then you start the second one essentially with guys like, end the war Yeah. Kind of thing. And You get to see pretty quickly how powerful that main seat quote unquote is. also I know that they mentioned in the first Ready or not that they did go on to buy sports teams. Right. Which you can see a lot of harm being done in sports and how that stuff is managed. And I do think that it is a fair thing to say, especially because they are considered one of the five top like families that no matter where they started, they're clearly doing harm. Yep. on maybe a grander scale than other families. but I do like that this movie really built on the first in a way that didn't feel forced. Yeah. And I really equate that to the fact that it's the same directors, same writers. Absolutely. And I bet you they have been hearing give us a sequel, for years. Well you bet that like there's always the assumption of if something does good the studio will demand a sequel. For sure. And so and if they don't Do their own sequel, they're just gonna give it to somebody else. And like I would be curious to know like if the the writers directors have stated that they kind of had the idea that this is the bigger world in mind when they did the first one. Possibly because you know, like you always hope that a movie is gonna like something that you do is gonna succeed. and if you're a world builder, you don't tend to necessarily just build The aspect of the world that's worthwhile for that one story. Exactly. obviously that's me as a writer saying that. there are a lot of creators out there that are like, here's people and a sucky world. I won't say very specific names. but there are people that build worlds bigger than it needs to be built, and then they have to kind of pair down. Yes. And so I don't know, the way that this second movie played out really felt like it was already there and then they pared it down to just l the Le Domas's Right. for the sake of the first movie. So I I thoroughly enjoyed it. I've enjoyed it multiple times. I've watched it so many times. I do want to gush about Elijah as the lawyer. First of all, I think it's hilarious that he doesn't have a name. He's literally just called The lawyer. Yeah, it's like if that is his identity. Yeah. And I just I really like him as a character, and we'll probably talk about him in very specific scenes during the rest of the episode. But he did so much, and I don't wanna steal your thunder, but you had mentioned that he does so much of his acting for this, like in his face. Yes. And he's really just a subtle actor in this. Yeah. And I also thoroughly enjoyed his acting in this movie. And it's like he makes such a fantastic counter to all of these such extreme personalities that are these rich fucks. Yeah, definitely. So like all these people that he essentially does have to keep in line. For sure. Yeah. and so they're all over the place with this in so many different ways. And then he's just standing there and just putting up with their shit. I love where the guy is like, fuck you. Where do you where do you want your brother's ashes to be sent to? Right up your ass. And he's just like, Yep. Yeah. And it's just like it was such fantastic counterpoint to how insane they are. And it's like you would almost expect that like he is literally a lawyer for a demonic entity. Yeah. And he's just this cool cucumber kind of person and just kinda going along with it and it's very crazy setting. Yeah. And he's just there existing. Yeah, he's just hanging out. Just making everything that he's involved with like just a little bit more entertaining. Yeah, he was so funny, and my most recent interaction with Elijah as a character was in Yellow Jackets. He plays a character in that, and that's another one where he does such a great job. And to be fair, Elijah always brings it but this one felt a little bit like a watered-down. version of his yellow jackets character and so I really love that he's getting to do these kind of interesting like they're not really antagonists yeah but they're just kind of there. Yeah no and it's really interesting because I find it really funny that there's that running joke like people getting confused between Elijah Wood and Daniel Radcliffe but what's Really funny is that there's actually a lot of similarities between them where because of two of the biggest franchises in film, yeah, they can essentially do what they want. Yeah, I love that for them. And so, like, and we see Daniel Radcliffe, he's done all sorts of like just off-the-walls bonkers shit. Yeah, and and he can because he's essentially got a guaranteed payday for the rest of his life. Elijah Wood has. the same thing because of Lord of the Rings. You know, the difference being that he had already been acting since he was like single digits years old. so he started before like age wise before Daniel Radcliffe did. and he's been doing it longer. He has had some like good stuff, but not really until Lord of the Rings. And he did that when he was eighteen years old. He turned eighteen on set It's crazy. I know. And so after that he really did have that freedom to do whatever he wants. And I think I heard that he has a music production company. He owns a music production company, I believe. That's awesome. I know. and then like every once in a while he'll jump back and he'll do a movie or something, And he's been a little bit more active over the last couple of years. but like he did some random thing, the last. Witch hunter or something that was with Vin Diesel. and he played an antagonist in that and I think we've talked about it is he played the serial killer in the maniac remake and they literally cast him because he is such an ordinary person. Yeah. And while you don't really see him because his eyes are the camera okay for a majority of it and so we're mostly just getting his voice sure and you believe that this guy who is played by Elijah Wood is believable as a serial killer Yeah. and so like of course I love the stuff where he can really play into like the doe-eyed stuff that he will never grow out of. Poor guy's gonna look like a baby forever. All his life. but he plays antagonist great. Yeah. And he just has a really unique vibe to him when he's able to be an antagonist. Yeah. it's a lot of fun to see, with him and Obviously Samara is great again. I know we talked about it during the ready or not episode, but that she's very rough around the edges but we actually see her more so like she's so done with everything during this. And I was telling somebody that I feel so bad for her because she literally gets married twice in one weekend. Right. And honestly that sounds worse than being hunted twice by a devil cult. perspective. But we also get introduced to Faith, her sister, which was obviously an interesting choice. but they did it relatively well. So like this may be controversial, maybe not. I don't like, and I was surprised by this, the further into the movie they went, the less I liked that she existed. Hmm, really? Yes. Interesting. so much of how she was acting, how Grace was acting at the beginning of the first movie. with the family and how desperate she was to be a part of the family. Yeah. It kinda no longer made as much sense because she had a sister that she walked away from. Yeah. And so, Like, yes, it is very common for people in the foster system to just desperately want a family. Yeah. But that's usually because they didn't find one or didn't have one that existed. and it was one of the few things that I thought stopped making sense because the sequel exists Yeah. and she had a family. Yes, she had the whole time. And yes, there's a lot of guilt attached to that, but that's not the same as being desperate for a family, like the way she was portrayed in the first movie. And so because it really messed with that continuity and it kind of made that motivation of her character not make sense and that bothers me, yeah, And then also I do think that the second movie could have happened exactly as it did, like you know, except for like minor things without faith's existence. Yeah. And it in a lot of ways I think Faith's existence took away from grace. Yeah, it's funny because Titus literally says at some point the only thing that you're good for is slowing down your sister. Right. and I was like, mmm, that's literally why she was created Yes. As a character. Like, you don't need the sister being in trouble to force Grace to come back and continue to participate. You know, just change the story a little bit and how you format it so that she doesn't get the opportunity to get away. Or do what they did in the first one, where like she did get away, but then she got caught and brought back. Yeah. And so like even her agreeing to to marry him to save her sister yeah that was unnecessary because she was trapped and and it did take away from Grace and I love Grace. I think she is amazing and I think I would have continued to enjoy her character all the more if it remained about survival. Yeah, definitely. And we don't need to see that she'll put her life on the line for a sibling. Right. when we've already seen so much back and forth with her in the first one of whether or not to save her husband, and it was because of him that she got dragged back in. but like it would have been a lot more interesting, I think, to see her fighting so hard just to survive. Right. And she'd still need all the wits that she shows, and it would still get the same results. You don't need to throw in an emotional manipulation. It's cheap. I made a note about that it's double the final girl. and I do think that one of the aspects of this, and this is a a thing that I actually really struggled with in the second one, especially with Titus as a character. Titus as a character clearly just wants to beat women. Yeah. so the whole scene where he's just beating the shit out of faith felt so unnecessary to the storyline. And he's so rapey and he literally kills his twin sister. Like it just at the time it was just like, Okay, did you drop a second final girl into this movie just so we could have twice as many beating sessions with women? Yeah. Like against other people. Like it was a part where I was just like, what's happening right now? Like is this necessary? Because the way she gets beat up by Titus is so Over the top. It's unnecessary. It's unnecessary. and for a comedy like this it just felt out of left field compared to what we saw for violence in the first one. Right. Obviously Grace got her ass kicked every once in a while. She even says it in the beginning of the second one where I got beat up by a butler. but actually a lot of her wounds are, you know, from various moments of trying to escape, trying to get to the next thing and yeah, like so she got pretty beat up without being physically beat by a man. Yeah, no, like it wasn't just I'm beating you up because I can. Right. Like we like all of the injuries that she got before was like they're trying to kill her. They're trying to kill her. That's all it is. and so like this was unnecessarily malicious. Yeah, definitely. And it was a way that the sequel like upped the ante. Yeah. But in a way that I didn't know if I liked it or not. No. Especially with Titus as a character. But even the other men were such douchebags. Like it felt like they had to be worse than the first movie. You know? It was like with Titus I guess, you can make the argument that it was a really easy way to show how crazy he is, but he was already showing it. And like it felt a lot like they suddenly didn't trust the audience. 'cause you won't get it otherwise when no, we'll get it just fine. Yeah, and it's interesting what you say about faith because it wouldn't have existed without faith. that scene wouldn't have existed without faith. Yeah. And Titus wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for the fact that he had faith and not grace. Right. And I think that it was just gratuitous violence And as much as I love horror as a genre because I think that it Talks about a lot of things and it does things better than a lot of other genres, specifically when it comes to women characters. Yep. I can also recognize that there are cases where a trope is being used specifically to show you. more harm towards a woman. Right. And also I do think that it's a fair thing to point out. these kinds of movies will probably not appear on the podcast is I don't like torture porn. No. neither of us really care about it. Nope. And so the closest I've ever gotten is the collector and the collection. which are funny thing is like I thought about the collector when I was talking about showing Grace on her own and then it being another character being the only reason she went back and that's exactly what happened in the collector That's true. In the first one, with the kid. That's right, yeah. So like he literally got out but the kid was still in there and I get like with that one at least it was more important with him because he's already a very grey character. because he is the straight up criminal. Definitely. Like he was robbing these people. Yeah. And that's why he was in the house. Yeah. And seeing him genuinely stick up and want to protect a child. Sure. that isn't his right and just wanting a help a kid, you know, even though we've seen that, what he's doing is for his own kid. Yeah. Totally. but anyways, like it's a little bit different, but it did make me think about the collector with that, but it kinda also pointed out how unnecessary it was. Sure. We don't doubt, Grace. No, there's no reason to date doubt Grace. I think there's plenty of reasons to date her. I could I would definitely date Grace. yeah, I would date her a lot. but yeah, so there's no reason to do that. And I will say that whether or not faith is necessary, obviously she exists in the movie, and I do want to talk a little bit about like the other families. Yeah. And specifically we've already touched on Titus, but like first of all I love Sarah Michelle Geller. I'm a Buffy girl and Sarah Michelle Geller is one of my favorite actors. And it was so great to see her in this, especially because she was an antagonist. And I genuinely felt sad when she got killed. So I wanted to ask you this and I made sure that I didn't ask you before we were talking about it here. do you believe when she was talking to Grace at the end and she was saying that she was just trying to keep her crazy brother in line do you believe she was completely genuine about that or do you think she was just trying to get Grace to go along with her and manipulate her and she wasn't actually genuine so much like when we talked about materialists, I might have some Sarah Michelle Geller like rose-colored glasses. Right. I want to believe that she was genuine. It seemed like she was genuine. but she's also his twin sister. Yeah. And she also grew up in that family, killing goats, killing people, like making sacrifices to the devil. they smothered their father to death so they could be on the field. So there's a part of me that desperately wants her to have really felt that. Yeah. And I do think that of the two twins, she is more moderate than him, obviously. But it's kind of like Comparing 2026 MAGA to Democrats. It's the Overton window means that it's not that big of a difference. So I do feel genuinely sad when she got killed. And I do think that that was partially because it's Sarah Michelle Geller. Yeah. I think that the creators knew exactly who they were bringing in for this character. I mean, a lot of people also like the guy who plays Titus. It it was bothering me the whole time if I actually recognize him or not. I know I recognize him, but I don't know what from. someone in the one of my discords was like, I loved him. It wasn't until he killed Ursula that I had a problem with him. he smacked her earlier in the movie. Also beat the shit out of faith. Also, first things first, at the wedding, he told the guy that he could do better. Yes. I was like, go fuck yourself, man. Like, he's obviously a misogynistic pig. It felt very much like my ex-friend telling me that Shane wasn't a problem for her in The Walking Dead until He killed Otis. Right. And I was like, that some bitch tried to rape Lori. Are you crazy? Like people's lines for fictional men. I don't I don't get it so much. Is right up there for the lines of real men. Like the amount of times that women men do this too, to be fair. The the the most Cyber slurping motherfuckers for men are men. Yeah, sorry, that is yeah. but women's a face to that. Yes. But also women will just like wave off bad behavior. Yep. And it's crazy. So when someone was like, Yeah, I just I just hated when he killed Ursula, I'm like, that was the end of the movie. Where were you the rest of the movie? Like, honestly, if you think about it, that's one of the like most sensible things that he did. But she literally about he just heard her admit that all she cared about was manipulating him for the rest of their lives. Also, whether she meant it or not, she told Grace to kill him. Yes. Like Validated action he had was killing his sister based on what he had just heard. Like it's crazy to me. It's so crazy to me. Like people's lines for fictional characters really show me how deep the like protection and support of men is. Like when they say, well, he's not as bad as this guy, well, you know, he didn't do this, well, he didn't do that. That like that kind of crap. Yeah. Women see that shit, that cherry-picking bullshit. That when people do that to fictional characters, it tells me something very specific about that person. Yeah. That worries me. Yes. It is not the whole reason I might like peace out on them. But it might be the first stepping stone to peacing out. Like I've heard Chesko the speech prof, who I love. Go check him out. he has said many a times that he will not stop being friends with somebody just because they like Harry Potter. Okay. But he will 100% make a note. Yeah. Because if there's anything else that leads him to think that that person is transphobic, he's gonna peace out. Yep. So it's not the reason to slam the door, but it is a reason to s a little quick. Yeah, no, it's one of those things that you're gonna pay a little bit more attention to the kinds of things that they're saying. When we talk about litmus tests, the thing that I think a lot of people misunderstand and the thing about red flags, green flags. Things like that. you have to continue that with every person you know, including yourself, for the rest of your life. Yes. So you can't just magically have one litmus test that's going to convince you that a person is good or bad. So when I think about if someone say is obsessed with Game of Thrones, specifically the book series, but also the TV show. I'm not going to say anything in particular about them, but it is going to make me question some things. Right. Because when it comes to that series, that book series, which I've never read. I have seen the show specifically for Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal. They double triple down. They made it for two episodes. Yeah, it's not it's not for our house. But in Game of Thrones, if you are like obsessed with it, you're like, I live in house, blah blah blah. It's very much like Harry Potter, like the houses and that stuff, I get it. Capitalism has made us obsessed with these big franchises. I totally understand that. And some of it's really cool. Dragons are awesome. There's dragons in Game of Thrones. We get that. But there's also like double tripling down on incest. And a lot Of romanticized rape. Yep. So when I look at somebody who's like super obsessed about it and not willing to like call out those things, that tells me a little bit of something about that person. Absolutely. And so then I will start recognizing what they say in other conversations. I will start to look into things like it's kind of that we're talking about. it's an interesting aspect, is like, you know, that like kind of exactly what we're talking about here is how media affects us and that it's a cheat sheet ultimately is because people are so comfortable talking about media and their opinions about media yeah is that it gives you a cheat sheet because it's like they will so easily essentially tell on themselves that hey, I like this because A, B, C, D, and you're like, red flag, red flag, red flag, Look, I'm not coming over again. This isn't gonna work for me. Like, well, I am going to cut down very much on contact just because of like what they said about this one interaction. Like, you it's one thing, it's like, I like this movie or I like this show. but then when they get into the why. like how you just mentioned the person that didn't have a problem with Shane until he killed Otis. it's the same thing and so it's like why did you like Shane? Yeah you're not supposed to like him. Yeah. You are never supposed to like Shane. Ironically, that's the crazy thing is even the short clip that they show at the beginning of the episode Where it is pre outbreak and everything. He's such an ass horrible person. so it's like they were never actually subtle about how bad of a person he is. To be fair, Rick is also a nice guy. But trademark. Trademark nice guy. He's not an actual good guy. Yeah. he's definitely a TM nice guy. Yeah. But but Shane, but that's that's exactly what we're talking about. by the way, I did not buy Ursula. okay. I didn't believe her. that's why I mentioned that I might have rose colored glasses when it comes to specifically Sarah Michelle Geller. But to be fair, like I do the same. Like we talked about it before. Yeah, so I that's not surprising because I do think that they were raised in the same house. they did the same things. there's some crazy looks in her eyes. Yeah, and she desperately wanted to have the ring. Like she absolutely is like I just saw that as her playing a smarter game because she is the smarter person. it is kind of a way of showing that like the women involved in all this are the ones who are smartly handling it. Also, that's a great tie-in because one of the other things I wanted to talk about, we have to talk about is the the women in the sequel as opposed to the women in the first one. Right. Really does feel Like a flip-flop. Absolutely. Like these women in the sequel are smart. And many of them don't want to do the worst thing possible. Yeah. And I think that's really interesting. Even if, God forbid, like Ursula's the worst of the bunch. Right. Like, because I believe that. Yes. she's Titus's twin. She grew up. with that family. like so Ursula, yes, if she's the worst of the worst, she's still better than Titus, which is barely nothing. Yes. Barely nothing. and then Wan Chen, she's the one who found the loophole. Yeah. and she had the son and she was gonna try to marry her off to the son and so they wouldn't have to kiki kicky as she said, which I think is so fucking funny. She genuinely felt like one of the nicer characters, like the brothers from the first one. Yeah. That she just had like she grew up in this life, but she genuinely isn't interested in it. But she doesn't want to die. Right. And the sad thing about this is like, and I know we've talked about this when it comes to the choice of having a child. when you're a child who's literally born into a devil-worshipping cult, yeah, even if you're Alex who walked away, he didn't really walk away, his life is still greatly affected by Mr. Labelle. their lives are directly tied into Mr. Labelle. Yeah. So she has no choice. Ursula has no choice. All of these people have no choice. And so she really truly felt like that person, kind of like Alex or Daniel from the first one who was like, I don't want to do this. I have to do this. And I also really appreciate that unlike the first movie, like no one was pretending that they were good people. No. Like even she was like I'm not a good person. Like No, let's not play that game. And I really appreciate that about her character. Yes. And the reason why Grace says no in that moment is because she doesn't want to serve the devil. she would rather die than serve the devil. Yep. And stuff like that, you know, specifically Wan Chen, like the fact that she was so upfront about it, like having her present the loophole, and then at the end. with Ursula like doing her own kind of version of a loophole. If they hadn't had that earlier scene with Wan Chen, I probably would have believed Ursula. Yeah, that's a good point. Because like we did see somebody who was like who was genuinely trying to give Grace an out. The only way you can which is the loophole. but with Ursula it was a lot more nefarious. It's so funny. It was so funny during that scene. This might just be my bisexual butt, but I was like, is Ursula flirting with us? Ursula instead instead. I'm sure Satan doesn't care about bisexuals. Unlike God. I'm sure Mr. Labelle does not give a shit what the junk is in our shorts when we sleep with each other. I just don't think he cares. I mean, bisexuals are chaos incarnate. Grace 100% should be bisexual. but yeah, so and then Martina, who was the wife. Yeah, my god, that was one of the best moments in the movie. She's so freaking funny. Just peacing out. Peacing out. And and I hope, I don't know if this is true because obviously we didn't see it. I hope she didn't blow up. I know. I was like, I'm sure she did because she was married into the family. No, but she was the head of the family. She was the head of the family. She was the head of the family. It makes me so sad. But she was so funny. I was so bum like that bummed me out. Like I was like, my gosh, that was like one of the best things Ev ever said. That was the best part one of the best parts of the movie. And she's gonna die. I know she will. She will as soon as everybody was blowing up, I was like, dang it. She's d she's gonna blow up down the road. Yeah. Like it'll be a ways down the road. A ways down the road, but she definitely blowing up down the road. Yeah, hey, she made an awesome She made an awesome choice to deal with it in the moment. so like I really do think that the shift from the first one to the second one when it came to the women in the movie, I really liked it. Yes. Yeah it didn't feel like forced wokeness. Like and that's the funny thing. They still feel like selfish, stupid people. Right. And so like these are rich families. These are people who have been rich for a while. and so like it's not a matter of, they're new to money like we see with like the spouses in the first one. Like those are people who are new to money. Yeah. And but you know it is very much you see like the guy Are going to be stupid spoiled brats because that's what rich men can be. Yeah, definitely. And like, sure, most of them were like younger, and so I did find it really funny while it was kind of bothering me, and I mentioned this and I didn't rewatch about the whole limitations on the weapons. the sniper rifle did also bother me. Yeah, definitely because I was wondering is this actually allowed? Should he blow up if he actually kills her? Right, yeah. And so that's the thing, is like, would they blow up if they killed her rather than just like happening to have the bad weapon. the fact that he was such a horrible shot And like same thing with the daughter, Francesca, I think her name was. Because I didn't write that down for some reason. she had the rocket launcher, but she did it backwards. Backwards. I laughed so hard. And that because it totally tracks, it's like some rich person isn't gonna know, and they're not gonna look this way forward. Yeah, I like the idea that the lawyer is just like I mean, if they do something wrong, they'll they'll blow up. Yeah, he has no obligation that they're about to fuck up. And the weapons thing in the first movie, I think that if they forced that into the second movie as well, it would have felt like maybe too much, or maybe not. Who knows? Maybe maybe they just wanted to try something different with the weaponry in the second one like at least in the first one, you had the excuse of this is just the weaponry they've collected. At the house versus this is literally what they brought to the battle And so like they brought this shit with them planning fully that this is what they were gonna use. Yeah, I just think that it's a terms and conditions thing. Yeah. Like no one was listening to the lawyer. And he's just like and here I am, like my consistency racked brain. I'm like, I'm paying so close attention. inconsistencies in movies really bother me. Like it does bother me that we did not see the guy reload the sniper rifle. Yeah. he shot way more times than that gun holds. It should have only held like five or six rounds. Him dropping the clip dropping the dropping the clip was so funny. and that was another thing is that like with the sniper rifle, it's like you know, okay, like he's just like it's a sniper rifle, I'm gonna not consider that it takes skill to use a sniper rifle. And so like and then the kids later saying he never practices with that. Yeah, and so it's like that absolutely tracks. So it's like it was one of those very amusing ways of showing good acknowledgement that this is a case where absolutely everyone should miss. Right. My only caveat, and it's not even a caveat, it's maybe my brain just giving the writers an out. Is like I head canon that maybe certain families haven't been with Mr. Labelle as long as others have. That's a really good point. I did not actually consider that. just because we know. That the Le Domas's have been with them for a long time, long time. And we know that Ursula and Titus's family has also been with them for a long time. Right. do we actually know if the other families have been with them for centuries? Yeah. That's a really good point. And I think you just found the way that I cannot be bothered by them just like lugging in a rocket launcher. And because they don't actually say, so it's hard to know. Yeah, no, they just say that know. knows like it has to be the same kind of weapons that existed in the time that the deal was struck. and I do think that Ursula and Titus's weapons they are a little bit older than what the other families use. So I just think that it's a possibility. That's a really good point. That because if you look at the time frame of like rocket launchers or Yeah like that could still be within the last couple of decades. Right, right Still enough time for a like a generation. Right, exactly. So you're that was just my head cannon to make it work. That is a good point that I kind of didn't think of. because of the focus on the one family that kind of established it, and so it kind of got a little stuck in my head that this is it. And even then my timeline was not all that great. Right. Yes. Just because like I I guess it's a good thing to remember that even though old money is old money for a reason, it definitely felt like the other families. Wan Chen's family I felt like could have been older. Right. Which felt realistic that she had a sword. But that's like With those cultures, like having those kind of weaponry and knowing how to use them is a lot more ingrained in their culture. Right. And that's why I was like, no, I like that. I dig that. Yeah. give me a girl with a sword anytime. I'm always good with that. but then when With the other families, we saw the one family with Francesca, they were like a TV personality. And the other one seemed like they owned a nightclub. Yeah, yeah. So to me, it kind of felt like The youngest from Usher, not necessarily Tamerlin and Froderick from Usher. it felt very much like they were just young. younger to the deals. Yeah. So their weaponry fit in better. so that was just my my thing. we have to talk about the wedding dress fight. the Francesca and Grace. If I'm actually misremembering Francesca's name, I apologize to the audience. but their fight, first of all, it being matched with a really romantic song. my gosh. It reminded like was so funny to me. The fact that it was the same song that they used in Strangers Pray at Night. in the scenes in the pool. The pool scene. Yes, like so one of the harrowing scenes in that movie. And it to be like in it also being paired to this was so fantastic. It was so good. the wedding dress fight is so funny to me, especially because they suck at fighting. Also like they pepper sprayed each other. Pepper sprayed each other. It started with the the rocket launcher going the wrong way. And It really reminded you that this is a comedy. Yes. Like Yes, they're trying to kill Grace. People are exploding from the first go. And it was just so funny to me and the fact that she put on her wedding dress and the guy was like, that's not sad at all. Yes, it is Francesca. Okay, thank goodness. It's genuinely been bothering me. 'cause I didn't put her name in my outline. but yeah so like I really thought that that scene was is was just like a cherry on top of like the ridiculousness of the movie. and of course the fact that it's paired with Titus beating the shit out of faith was really hard for me. Yeah. Like we've already talked about. Yeah, no, like and that and that might be why it's like that scene kinda leaves more of a bad taste in the mouth. Yeah. Is because it is countering that pure comedic fight. and again it's taking something away from Grace. Yeah, definitely. Because like this is Like this, this is Francesca just targeting her. Francesca would do this if it had nothing to do with the cult. Right. This is exactly what she'd be doing regardless. Francesca like, I'ma kill this bitch. No, no, like this is actually a personal fight against Grace, and you're taking away from her. Yeah. Yeah. And it was again so visceral of a fight. It didn't match the tone of the moment. Yeah, and it is a challenge when you have horror comedies is that you know like because they do strangely go together really well right just because of kind of human nature and it is a very common way to cope with a very serious or extreme situation is through comedy. Definitely it's a very common coping mechanism and there's like when the rest of the movie is trying to just like break your brain and heart rate. Yeah. like just getting to you in one way or another. And then like that moment of levity can help you endure a little bit longer and get through the movie. Right. kind of thing. And so they do go together very well. Definitely. but then when you have ones that are straight up horror comedies, it is one of the hardest balances to find and what it usually means is that you won't have a true horror comedy, you'll have a comedy with horror elements or a horror with comedy elements. Right. one of the most popular examples like in the genre that I can't stand Because they forgot to balance horror in there is the Evil Dead franchise. Yeah. where they started with two, then they kind of were like leaning into the comedy a little bit. and then and then Army of Darkness literally has a three Stooges scene. I hate Army of Darkness. I hate Army of Darkness. So much. I cannot stand it. if I wanted to watch Three Stooges, I'd watch Three Stooges. We literally grew up in a house where our father watched the three stooges. I think Ready or Not Here I Come had a better balance, which means that when they got it wrong. like of those two fights that it makes it all the more egregious and you notice even more that it didn't work that they failed at the comedy. So I know we're just winding down a little bit. We obviously talked about the wedding dress fight, which I think is just so fucking funny. I wanna talk a little bit about the fact that one of the issues that I had with faith and grace is that doubling the final girl made infighting more likely. Yeah. And I have an issue with male writers especially, having women fight with each other, especially in death defying situations. like girls ain't got time for this. Like you're trying to not get shot. Yeah. And it's also really frustrating because it just takes away from what's actually happening and it makes it more likely that they'll Do something stupid. Yes. And the constant bickering between Faith and Grace felt like every other frickin' horror movie with more than one woman in it. Yeah, no, it was just like, drama for drama's sake. Exactly. And that was a an area where I thought that they kind of faltered away. Yeah, where it does absolutely fall apart. And and it's just like We don't got time for this shit. Yeah. And people will survive. Yeah, no, it's like and that guess what? People will have survival be their top priority over these this drama. This petty bullshit. And so like I also didn't buy that she would be telling these people that are saying, Hey, we're gonna try and kill you tonight that she wouldn't tell them anything about it. No, why would she tell anybody about it? There's no reason for her to like for either of them to go into these details. Yeah. mind your business. It felt very much like men telling stories of women. And that's something that obviously we talked about a bit in materialists, where it was a female director and writer where it can go wrong that way as well. But to me, when men are telling the stories of women If they don't have good friendships with women, they don't actually understand what women are like. Yeah, they don't understand. And there are scientific studies where they will take a group of little girls and like take them away from their families and like put them somewhere and they'll do the same with a group of boys. The boys will be like, woofy! We do whatever we want, and they're gonna die in like two days. And little girls are like, okay. Well, we need to do this and we need to do this. And I I know that an aspect of this is social. Yes. That a lot of young girls are parentified at a very young age. but I also think that part of it is because we are not taught to destroy our own empathy. Yeah. So when we are in a rough situation, our first thing, is to be empathetic towards other people. And we wanna survive together and that's what social species do is they survive together. and it kinda comes down to a lot of the same things, just a different approach to it, is that because they put a lot of work into both ready or not where they're pretty purposefully not sexualizing Grace. Yeah, definitely that it I think it means that it came out for like for the male writer directors that we're not sexualizing her as a woman so she has to have male traits. I definitely feel that way about Grace sometimes. And like you know, and this is this is a downside to that we only see her on her wedding night and like the recovery and then another life or death situation. like yes tomboys exist like women who are more comfortable in pants like you know people that aren't girly all the time. Sure. but say that the way it'll come out is like I want to be the bride. That's like you know, that's the that's the way of that. my feminine side is really gonna come out Sure. So that's what we'd see. but you know it's like we can kind of give that like yes because of how she swears like a sailor. Also she wears chucks which is a great yeah okay. Her identity is a teensy tiny bit of her identity is that she's so yeah like comfort is more important than being feminine. And so honestly if you're like most men are just going to see that as she's being masculine. It's very black and white view. Definitely. so it does mean that it's an oversimplification to the characters. Yeah. That rather than saying like, she just prefers to be comfortable or she's just comfortable in things that people are gonna perceive as masculine. Right. when it's not a feminine or masculine thing. Yeah. It's another way that where men writing women fails women as people. Right. And obviously, like Kira said, we know that tomboys exist, we know that women come in all shapes and sizes, all personalities. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about that in a lot of cases women get turned into the most flat aspects of who they are. Yep. And to have that happening in survival situations is not even it's like being betrayed twice. Yeah. Like we're not that way on a given day. But like if you're talking about like a life or death situation, Who gives a flying fuck if you're a masculine woman or you're a tomboy or any shit like that? Like that has nothing to do with it. And I'm using general terms here. all women aren't a monolith. women in general are going to seek to survive together. Yes. They're not gonna go out of their way to make it harder to survive. and I would like to see studies or like, follow up on what men in actual life or death situations if they would lean towards the same thing. Sure. I know like when we see team building exercises and stuff like that, they'll show like how men work together, and how in a lot of ways tends to be a little bit more individualistic and so it tends to be like the hard way around. They still accomplish the thing but it is still ultimately not a collaboration. They gotta measure their dicks yeah like the way that women will tend to. That's not the same thing right as this you will literally die if you don't do this. maybe I'll remember and be curious right to check it out of like how we see of multiple men or mixed company right in a truly survival situation right and how they handle it differently than what we see from women. Yeah, and I definitely think Because ultimately we are social species. Right. And social norms fall apart very quickly when it comes to survival. Right. Yeah, and I think that it's important to acknowledge that because women live in a patriarchy we're put in harm's way a lot anyways you will see a lot more provide and protecting from women, not from men, despite how much men want to talk about that shit. you see a lot more of that from women where we will protect each other. you see way more women warning others in public when someone puts shit in their drink. You see more of that when they show you the symbol that they're in an abusive relationship. These are strangers. These people don't know each other and will pretend to be besties. Yes. for the sake of getting a woman out of a dangerous situation. We have always seen that. obviously we're talking about a funny horror comedy, but you're Talking about something that is like a big part of us as humans, but it is something that hasn't been forced out of us by patriarchy, is empathy and a desire to survive together. So when men write women characters, they are writing them as if they were men with boobies. Yes. that's it. And so they pretend that that's all women are, so they really flatten out that character and ignore all the things that make women different. Socially speaking, I actually don't think that women and men as human beings were not that different. Not that Different. a big reason for the genders to be so different is social structures and patriarchy and misogyny. Yep, that's a huge reason for why we're different. It has nothing to do with how we're born, it has everything to do with how we're socialized. Yep. So we have to be aware of that, and so we gotta be able to call it out when we see it in movies. And I do think that we really saw that failure. when it comes to like Grace and Faith's characters, specifically when it comes to how they treat each other. Cause I mean I know that Kira and I are not like the norm when it comes to siblings, but I know that like we've been in in situations where we were in an accident or we were in rough things or or you know, whatever happens. And my first response is not to argue. No. Like my response is to go, okay, how do we get out of this? What do we need to do? How do we what what's the best thing to do? Is everybody okay? Right. And okay, now what do we need to do to keep everybody okay? Exactly. And then maybe a week later, who do I need to hurt? Really depends on the situation. Yeah. So I mean, I know that that's not maybe not the norm, but I don't think it's too far off. I think you're right. I think that you know, if you're talking about siblings, if you're talking about women, even I mean, look at how often women make sister. relationships with people who aren't their sisters. Yeah. I mean it's so constant. And yeah, I know that guys are like, yeah, that's my bro. but it's just not quite the same because again they have been punished Away from their empathy. Yep. And so I do think that it's always a good reminder that men stop giving up your empathy. Like be an empathetic person and and be more than a flat character that these people make you out to be, because that's really not a fun person to be. So we have to talk before we close up about the final scene in the wedding. Yeah. So I really wanted to mention really quickly what you thought about Grace's kill count in the second movie when you had made a note about it in the first movie. I didn't mind it because it's a completely different situation. It's day two. Right, exactly. She's so done. it's very soon after she's had like she's had a little sleep. it is while being so close to the first situation, it's a completely different situation. Exactly. And her kick count is still two though. It's still only two, yeah. the second day. Yeah, not altogether. I would say altogether three. Yeah, yeah. I didn't mind it in the the ones that she has is she's not suddenly going around like just randomly killing people. One was another accident. Yeah. Like she didn't mean to kill the guy. I didn't even count him. okay. I only counted Washer Guy. So yeah, the Washer Guy. And Francesca? No. Or no, the Titus. Damn, I forgot about Francesca. Francesca is her kill count. Okay. Yeah, so. And Titus. That's who I was thinking of. So three. Yeah. One was completely an accident. Because she wasn't thinking about how it's an industrial washer that is going to kill somebody in it, period. You just don't think you know, you're not gonna think about that. Like it is like she gets leeway of you're not gonna think about stuff like that in a life or death situation. She just wanted to get away with it. Get away from it. Yeah, and so like she wasn't trying to kill him, it just happened because she just didn't understand what she was putting him in. Yeah. but But like you know, Francesca was maybe the closest it got to me not really liking it. Yeah. like that was the closest it came to being too cold and to just killing her for the sake of killing her. So that was the closest it got for me not being happy about it. Yeah. but like other than that, if she didn't kill Titus, she was going to be stuck in that life. and sure they played it off like that it wasn't that desperate. It was. No, that girl was gonna get raped. Yeah. yeah. Like duh. so like that was her only way out. it came off a little gentler than her kill of the mom in the first one. Yeah. So like stabbing somebody is not the same as bashing their Face it. No. And it's interesting because, like, it's the calmest is her and Titus. Yes. because even Francesca is like she is going for faith. You know what it kind of reminded me of was I can't remember anybody's name because it's been too long since I've seen it and I don't really care. 300 Lena Heady's character killing the guy that raped her in the council meeting it gave me those. Kind of vibes. Yeah. Yeah. I love Lena heady She's awesome. yeah, it's just you do what you gotta do because you gotta do it. And like It's not against the rules to. Kill family. He wouldn't have he would have probably like raped her and killed her that night. Exactly. Which He would have raped and then killed Faith too. Yeah. Like that's the that's what would have happened with that guy. he didn't put a time frame on that. Like that could have just been until we were married. We were married. Or until you were out of that room. Exactly. He only did it to get the ring. Obviously that was the only reason. Exactly. I really love her killing him, putting on the ring, and then stepping down. my god, and I love like the lawyers like kind of panicked. He's like, there's not actually anything in here about that. She literally can do that because we never made it not a thing. And he's-I love the guy's like, bro, can she do that? He's like, Yeah, there's nothing there. There's nothing in the bylaws. When there's nothing that says you can't, that means you can. And I also love that the lawyer is constantly picking up the book and like hiding behind people or things to keep it from getting bloody. Like once in one explosion, he's like checking over it, like just to make sure that nothing got bloodied. So funny. And I just love her. her acting in that final scene is just really really beautiful, really brilliant is like her actually saying back to him, like it was me that got you and Faith actually kicking him into the the goat pit. Yep. And also she looks so beautiful. It was fun after like almost two full movies of her just being a bloody mess. And she only looked nice for like Five minutes. And and like, you know, this is a little bit of personal preference on that. I think her wedding dress was already ugly. And so I didn't like seeing her in an ugly dress for two movies. No, it's true. Well, it was a traditional dress and like yeah, it was like an an heirloom kind of dress But it was still ugly. It is yeah, and it was covered in blood the whole time, which I think is funny. The blood actually made it look better. It looked better as a red dress than as a white dress. It was definitely a tacky fucking feeling for sure. but yeah, then they watched everybody explode again, which that final fight between everybody trying to get the ring was so great. and I love like her kicking the knife. Yeah. Like, oops, my bad. and her sister saying, Well, you know, someone has to burn it all down. And she was like, Yeah, you are good at destroying things. and I think Daniel said that in the first one. Like someone had to burn it all down. Yeah. And I really like that that kind of like played through. Yeah, it was a good callback. It was a good callback to the first movie. and I think my favorite thing is that. It feels very much like the lawyer is just like, You may go. Yeah. And he's just like, yeah, no, it's like he totally respected that they found the loophole that got them what they wanted. He's a lawyer. He must love. Yeah. He must like. Lawyers must resent and respect people who find loopholes. And it's like, and especially when you're talking, like, this isn't a lawyer that's going out and dealing with like the actual justice system. Sure. He isn't going and appearing. In court, yeah, and so like he's not like losing against another person, right? He is representing a demon. Yeah. And so, like, you know, when you find somebody like that, their whole existence is about having these deals and getting power from these deals and stuff like that. And when you find a person that can actually find their way around, no matter how they got to that finding the loophole, it's just like you gotta, you gotta respect the game. And I also I know that we see Mr. Labelle obviously in the first one than we see him again in the second one. And he does his little nod. Yep. And I just I really like the idea that it doesn't bother Mr. Labelle. Yeah. Because there's always more souls to buy. I didn't think about it before, but I did just think of it now as like the the last time that I watched through the Final Destination movies. Uh-huh. And the thought that I had the entire time was that I bet that the death character that he's just bored. Yeah. And that all the elaborate ways that he kills people that escape his design he's just bored with his nine to five and it mixes things up and so ultimately this is like this whole thing was was them like mixing up his day at your nine to five. And you gotta have fun. it's a good time. You gotta find ways to have fun with your job. Exactly. again I think like with the lawyer where you gotta respect the person who finds the loophole. I would imagine that Labelle also respects someone who survives. Yeah, I know. And it's not like he's ever gonna never have people to make deals with. And I think that's also interesting because like when you think about it and to be fair, I have been listening to a lot of atheist content. but like when when you think about how good God demands that you like bow down to God, but Satan asks you to like make a deal, and so you get something back. And we did discover that Mr. Labelle is indeed Satan. I think he respects consent. Yeah. yeah. Like it is about a deal. It's it's about a deal and the law, like, and keeping to the rules that you that you both agreed to. Right. And so she said no to the deal. Yeah. She found the way to say no to the deal. and he was like, Good on you girl. Yeah. I love that for you. And then having the last guy blow up right in front of them. They they were clean for literal minutes. I know, I was literal seconds. As soon as I saw that he was still alive, I was like, they're gonna get hit. They're gonna get hit. They're getting hit. you can't leave this movie clean Like that's that's kind of against horror law. Definitely. we'll say that the exception and even then they kind of bend it is like in Deep Blue Sea where They were in the water the whole time. They had no excuse. I love when Mr. LeBale appears again and Faith is like, was that? And she's like, Yeah. And it literally says on the the subtitles. It says flatly in her what she says. Because I mean, I know that we don't need to know that, but I love that it literally says that. She's flatly like, yeah. Yeah. and the other thing that I like that she saved the goat, especially after being in the goat pit. I liked that too. And she was like, Don't don't look that way. Don't look that way. You come over. Over here. Yep. And then just the survivors. it it felt very 2026 to have her say, I love you, to her sister. Yeah. And to say that you're not gonna get sick of me, I'm gonna stick around, and she says, do you promise? And she says I do, which is really dorky. Yeah. but to me, it echoes the idea of like when Frozen came out and suddenly. We didn't have to have romantic love. We could have platonic love. And so to me, it feels very like 2026 where it's okay to recognize the importance of like familial bonds. And so even though we have our gripes for faith being there. Yeah. And I think they're valid gripes. Yeah, as a character, I don't really have a problem with her. Right. Like her as a character is separate from How I feel of her place in the plot. Right. I think she's awesome as a character. I thought she was great. Yeah. I thought that they wrote them pretty well as sisters. Yeah, she is a fun, cool character. Yeah, I really enjoyed her. I thought that I think her name is Catherine, I thought she did a great job and I think she's a little bit newer to horror but I think she's been doing some fun stuff but I don't know anything I don't know very much about her. Yeah. But I do really like the ending. I thought it was great that she had to pick up the sword and that that I I wouldn't leave a sword but I love sword shinies. And I love that once again Grace finally got to smoke a Cigarette. Yeah. the bit of her trying to get a cigarette is a really good running bit together. Yeah, it's a really funny bit. So you know, I really love that, like, even with something that I really love because I did love the first and the second movie. I love that we can talk about them and actually have like, hey, this is where I really struggled with this, and like here's the thing, and I think that more people should try this. give it a go, When you love something. Thing it's okay to be critical of it, it doesn't have to stop you from loving the thing. And I promise you, give it a go. It can be really fun. Like, here's the thing: it means more if it then survives those criticisms. If the criticisms that you have are like actually so ultimately shallow, sure, that it doesn't actually hurt your enjoyment of. the movie. Definitely. And that's the point. That's what you want. You want a movie that you can make fun of and still enjoy it just as much. Yeah definitely. Cool. Well was there anything that we didn't talk about I really think so. I think that was it. leave it at two. Yeah, please tell me the third one. We don't need a third one. Tell me the third one. For the love of God, let that girl go home and take a bath and never get married again. Don't make it about another family either. Yeah, we don't need that. the world has been sufficiently established. Leave it alone. Yeah. We don't need another horror franchise. It would suck. Yeah. It 'cause it it just ends up going downhill after that. but thank you so much to everyone who made it this far. as you guys know, we really love To start a conversation with these podcasts, so let us know in a comment or a review and talk about it with your friends. share this with others. We're starting out on Spotify and Apple podcasts, and please recommend things for us to overthink. We look forward to sharing more with you in the future. Bye. Bye.