#194- Stan Zimmerman: "The Girls: From Golden to Gilmore" | Life of a Legendary TV Show Writer

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Welcome to Not in a Huff with Jackson Huff where we interview newsmakers,
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storytellers and all-around interesting people. Sit back, relax, unless you're
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driving and enjoy the show. Here's Jackson. Hello hello hello I am
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Jackson Huff this is Not in a Huff thanks so much for joining me. As always
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really appreciate it. This week an extra special guest released in the world of
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Jackson and the things that he likes. I'm interviewing Stan Zimmerman. Now I think
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that we've talked briefly about it to other people in the past. I always try
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to find that connection if possible but this is a strong connection and that is
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to a TV show that I guess is kind of a guilty pleasure to me and that is the
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Golden Girls. A show that was on from 1985 to 1992 starred some of I guess TV's
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most beloved people in their golden years so to speak. It's kind of funny
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because I think they were kind of in their late 50s and that's yeah that's
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that's young in today's world but you had Betty White, Estelle Getty, Rue
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McClanahan, of course the legendary Bea Arthur just an amazing amazing show and
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Stan Zimmerman was actually a writer on the show in its first season so just an
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absolute treat an absolute pleasure to speak with him. I'll tell you I think
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maybe a year or two ago I saw an interview with Stan and I thought man he is
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really really awesome I would love to have him on the show. I don't know why I
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just never actually got around to inviting him. I wish I would have done
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that much sooner because when I did reach out he was happy to to join me you
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know I was excited about it for several weeks leading up to it but yeah I spoke
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with Stan we're gonna talk a lot about his time on the Golden Girls a lot
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about writing that legendary first season and just what it looks like to be
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a TV writer. We're gonna talk about some of the other shows that he's written
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for because they're just as historic just as legendary as well. He wrote after
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leaving the Golden Girls for Roseanne and just the the interesting nature of
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being a part of that show and the I guess the temperamental volatile parts
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that was Roseanne Barr back then and and I think some would say still. We're gonna
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talk a little bit about that we're gonna talk about how he wrote for another show
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that has a cult following that please don't come for me but I've never watched
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and that is the Gilmore Girls so that's that's kind of leads into his book the
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girls from Golden to Gilmore so I think your Golden Girls fans are really gonna
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enjoy this Roseanne fans Gilmore Girl fans just an amazing amazing story we're
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gonna start kind of where you know Stan developed his his love for TV it started
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young creating his own television station in his bedroom amazing story
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there we're gonna talk about what it looks like to be a TV writer how you go
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kind of from gig to gig there you know there's so much we could have covered
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that we just wouldn't even get to in his career he wrote for a show called Rita
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Rocks on Lifetime he wrote the Brady Bunch movie in the 90s I'm telling you
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he's just an amazing guy I'd love to have him back at some point but yeah I
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I'm just I was honored to speak with Stan we do talk a little bit about
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after writing for TV shows not not that that's over with but some of the things
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that he's he's currently doing that is writing plays just a lot covered this
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week I hope pray urge that one of the plays that he's written that's you know
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making its debut on on stages across the country kind of the male version of the
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Golden Girls eventually that gets picked up for a TV show I know it was in the
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works at one point but yeah amazing amazing conversation here is Stan
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Zimmerman I'm here with Stan Zimmerman Mr. Zimmerman how are you I'm good I'm
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good you know your your credits they're a mile long I've listened to you on a lot
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of different interviews some people go through them all and bore you I'm not
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gonna do that what I'm gonna do I'm gonna make it easier for myself I guess
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kind of lazier aspect you introduce yourself highlight what you want to
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highlight forget the things you want to forget there's a lot I'd like to forget
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where do you want me to start I mean it is like you say it's a it's a vast and
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annoying credit list but you know when you get to certain age things add up but
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yeah started when I was very young seven and a half thought I'd be an actor went
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to NYU to I thought to be an actor I had audition to get in and I got into NYU
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circle in the square drama undergrad program and at NYU I met my future
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writing partner James Berg and we would make each other laugh on the street and
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then we decided for some reason to talk about our love for television and then
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we thought why don't we write a TV pilot not knowing what that would even be and
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so in between classes and after-school jobs we would get together and we
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started writing and he was a journalism major and had a book for agents I guess
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and so we just started submitting around and we found this young agent who really
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only handled newscasters but he took us on and got our material out to LA and I
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was working for a man a casting director named Leonard Finger in New York and one
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day my our agent called and said there's a somebody out in California at LA at
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Paramount they read your scripts and liked him oddly he went to high school
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with my boss that weird yeah and they were really good friends and so this man
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in LA kind of became our mentor his name is Gary keeper unfortunately he passed
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many years ago but he did get to see us start a career in Hollywood and we just
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worked really hard wrote a lot of spec scripts and then suddenly after nobody
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returning our call we started getting offers to do TV shows and luckily the
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second TV series that we got to be on staff for was the Golden Girls look at
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you very good yes there you go no I that's that was a great little
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introduction we're gonna kind of unpack all that and expand upon that let's
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kind of start let's go backwards let's start with you as a kid because that's
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the part that I find funny just you kind of in your room creating your own
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network and you know that that sounds cool okay yeah you decided to create a
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network but you you will real intense with it scheduled each hour put it
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against other TV shows the thing that made me laugh that I heard you talk
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about is how you even you know shows that been canceled other networks you
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like you know I'm gonna I think that's still got some life I'm gonna bring it
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over to my network so talk a little bit about that because I think that just
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shows your early passion for TV yes back then with the TV show was canceled it
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was are you drinking vodka now is that what's going to happen I just have my
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coffee but yeah so if the show is canceled the show is canceled no other
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network ever picked up a show and I thought that was odd if I really liked it
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and I thought there was still an audience why not put it on my network
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and I did that with the show taxi and then oddly they someone did that it was
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on ABC and they took it over to CBS and NBC I think but that had never been done
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so I felt like I was a trailblazer at you know well or whatever and I had a
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lot of crazy ideas that ended up actually becoming people people did them
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like there was a TV show called love American style which was different like
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15-minute vignettes it was always like love and the something love in the four
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poster bed or love in the good old days and there was one called love in the
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good old days which was about 50s family and it starred Ron Howard and I really
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loved American graffiti and I thought well Ron Howard Ron Howard this should
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be a TV show so I called I put the good old days on Tuesday nights at 8 o'clock
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and then like a few months later I turn on the TV or I read in TV guide that ABC
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has a show called happy days and I was furious I ran down to my mother and I
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said you've been looking in my room and she said she hadn't but yeah I was I
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was very intense about this I made advertisements I held mock interviews
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and press conferences in my bedroom all in my head so I probably should have
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been a network executive but nobody would hire me and this writing thing
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just kept happening and happening yeah and I feel like that that happy days
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thing is is is something that has grinded your gears for a while because I
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have that as a question I said that your your mom basically sold the rights to
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happy days out from under you so you were a troublazer you you were the one that
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you know maybe you didn't call him Richie Cunningham but you basically
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created this show well whoever wrote that episode which I still don't know
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maybe it was Gary Marshall but whoever wrote that episode yes they deserve
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credit for it but it was my mastermind that wanted to make it a weekly series
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and yeah I just I really enjoyed just coming up with ideas or if I saw a TV
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movie that I really liked I would turn it into a weekly series another one that
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they did steal there was a movie that we called the Night Stalker which was
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scared the hell out of me I watched it one night and fortunately well my
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parents were away and we just had a babysitter not a good idea but that
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ended up being a series as well so I felt like oh I'm on the right track
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obviously these thoughts are I had a I probably would have been a good
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executive but it's very interesting that those careers they keep them very
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separate you know you would think would be really good to have like a writer or
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a creative creator in one of those executive positions but I think they
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make those more business people and very different I always thought it would be
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nice to have someone in that job that really understood what it's like to have
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a blank page and to come up with something out of nothing yeah I mean I
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assume just like you said it's just because of you know maybe there's too
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much emotion behind it just like in my world of education the administrative
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side and the academic side two totally different worlds and it's because you
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know the academics they've got the you know they've got the soft hearts and we
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we would never cut a program you know we've got to think of it as the business
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side so I would assume that's the case but I have no idea but I like I like
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that you you said another idea that they stole from me even though this is up in
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in your room in your head you you're these people have stolen your ideas yeah
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well I teach acting classes I talk about show business being those two parts as
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well there's a business part where you kind of have to wear a hard hat because
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it's really a rough business and then the show part is when you're writing or
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being an artist you have to open your heart and be very vulnerable and those
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are two very different things and some people have a hard time juggling that I
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was always very good with that it also helped to have a writing partner to say
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now you're letting your emotions get into it this is strictly business like
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just you know and vice versa we do that for both of each other and still to this
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day we've been lucky to you know have had people in many decades want us to
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write this past year right before the writer strike we got a gig and had to
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write a script in like four weeks for a Lifetime Christmas movie called the divas
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Christmas and it was super fun and it starred a few people you might know like
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Donna Mills and Nicollette Sheridan and Morgan Fairchild and Lonnie Anderson and
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Linda Grey and that was kind of cool and very on brand with me and my girls I
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love it I love it for sure and I want to kind of get to you know you said you
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could have been a network executive let's talk about another career that you
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could have done let's let's move you into college and if you I guess if you
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were just a little bit more chill about some some photography I guess you could
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have been amused as well so let's talk about how how you met who did you meet
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I wrote it down where's it at what's the guy's name Andy Warhol yeah I get it I
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was gonna say Jackson Pollock just cuz that's my name but I'd like to see what
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he was done that would been cool no I was dating someone who was very good
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friends with Andy Warhol but I I mean I was a Midwestern boy I did not know who
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Andy Warhol was I guess I was a little bit too young for all of that and but he
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got me into studio 54 and so I would hang out there and felt completely like
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an imposter and I didn't belong and then one night sitting on the couch the woman
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sitting next to me started like doing this to me and I'm like what she points
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up and right above me is Andy Warhol taking my picture and like an idiot I
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told him to stop I didn't know who he was yeah so I was I will admit a little
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intoxicated and I was paranoid I guess I thought like with each picture he was
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taking a part of my soul yeah like a beyond miss or something yeah it was a
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little crazy but somewhere in the Andy Warhol archives in Baltimore Maryland
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lies some photos of a out-of-place Midwestern gawky Jewish boy at studio
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54 I like it and I can't believe I forgot his name I was just to kind of
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dive deep into your interviews I was almost gonna wear I've got a shirt
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that's got like that you know the Campbell's Soup in different colors so I
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know I know Andy Warhol but I just I it blanked me for a second but let's let's
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kind of jump we're gonna jump really really fast because you've got a lot of
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a lot of stuff but not not too far but let's let's start talking about the
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Golden Girls that's I mean that's the show that I like the the most of that
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you've that you've been a part of I don't know I would I would say that I'm
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not necessarily the the demographic that watches it now but I think everyone
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watches I think everyone loves it so let's talk about how you joined join the
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show I believe as a as a staff writer yeah we got offered the opportunity to
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go in and pitch episodes and we luckily got an episode gig which is just one
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paid for one episode and we did such a good job I guess with the first draft
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that they brought us on right away it was a small staff and experienced writers
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and you know back then it's not like streaming days now where you do you know
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eight episodes or ten episodes there were like 24 or 26 episodes in a season
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so there's a lot of burnout so to have writers and especially young writers
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come in and be able to bang out a good first draft that they can then what
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they call table meaning the whole all the writers sit around a table and punch
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up different jokes and and fix a script so they were very smart and they brought
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us on right away and with no guarantee to write another script but then they
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kept giving us scripts and luckily we had three that season with their name on
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it even though you do end up working on all the scripts and some people find
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that hard to believe they're just like oh which one did you write well you know
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I was there you know the first season so we were involved in all of them really
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yeah yeah and I think that would surprise people who who don't know very
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much about the show it's that most of the writers were were very young I mean I
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don't I don't want to shock the people who aren't seeing this but you know it
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came out in 1985 you know I don't believe you're about a hundred and six
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years old right now so it was a it was a pretty it was a relatively young young
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writers room so I mean what was that like definitely when they told you hey
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you're gonna be writing you know about women women of a certain age did you
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think you know that sign me up or do you think this is gonna be a challenge
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no I never thought that would be hard that never came across my mind it was
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you know to me it's about the heart and soul of the character and it's about
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really for me putting yourself in someone else's shoes so it was just
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putting myself in maybe some orthopedic shoes but there were still shoes and you
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know I talked about in the book my love for my grandmother and you know I was I
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think feeling always like an outsider and very sympathetic to other people
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wondering what her life is like and what does she worry about and so that wasn't
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very difficult and also you know I think my acting background gave me a good
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viewpoint into characters because you are taking on characters but you're
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you're not become another person you're finding the similarities within yourself
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so that's what we would always do is how do we feel like Rose or Blanche you know
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there's a commonality and I think that's one of the reasons why the show is still
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so popular I think no matter who you are whatever demo you can relate to
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somebody in that house and those attitudes and that's the genius of Susan
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Harrison her creating and picking those four specific characters to embody that
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show yeah no absolutely and I wanted to ask you too this is a an easy question
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for me to ask but maybe not as as easy to answer you normally bring that that
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mug with a line on it that you wrote that you get no money for so maybe it's
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a touchy subject but what are some of the your favorite lines from from the
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season that you that you were a part of maybe that you wrote yourself well no no
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I will not have a nice day it's kind of probably the famous one I haven't been
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in that position I only get in that position when I give birth I mean there
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were just so many in what Blanche dog years I have all the t-shirts I mean
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people have made you know what's the one I sir I'm a lady you can kiss my a I
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mean shockingly there were a lot of lines that we came up with in our first
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drafts that made it into the show and then now have become synonymous with the
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show but also have a kind of a history on their own of course when you're
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writing them you don't write them to think like you know well we didn't even
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know there'd be internet or any of this you know we didn't think of the future
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we just knew you had to be truthful with the characters in the moment and luckily
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that has had a life of its own yeah it certainly certainly has so you we talked
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about how you you it didn't kind of scare you at all or give you pause to
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write towards you know ladies of a certain age as I said before what was it
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like though to know I don't know whether when you first signed on you knew the
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who the actors were going to be but what was it like to to know who you were
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writing for because you know all of them had had quite the quite the career
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before before the Golden Girls and and a pretty illustrious careers of that yeah
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I mean like you said I wasn't scared about writing for the characters I was
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scared to just be in an elevator with Bea Arthur so you know I mean I guess she
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was the most intimidating one of all just she was a legend you know and I had
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been a huge fan of Maude Betty White seemed more approachable because she was
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just but I'd watched her eyes Sue Niven on Mary Tyler Moore and on Mama's family
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and and I knew Rue McClanahan Estelle Getty I had seen recently in
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towards song trilogy on Broadway so I was very I was more excited to work with
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her she didn't intimidate me and right away she kind of paled up to us and made
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us feel comfortable but Bea Arthur was you know she came with an image like you
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thought she was gonna bite your head off and really it's just kind of a pussy cat
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underneath all that hmm well I like to hear that I feel like even some of the
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the actresses were intimidated by her I've read you know all of their books
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and I think that Betty White even said that she loved Bea Arthur but Bea Arthur
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never really liked her very well so I think that she was the one that maybe
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what people were were most afraid of well I think you know she was also at a
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point in her career she didn't need to do another TV show but she wanted to and
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she really respected the writers and she knew it's hard to get a really good show
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with really good actors and really good writing all those pieces together but
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they came together for Golden Girls and that's another reason why it just it
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lives on today so but she you know I mean I feel like with me now the older I
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get it's like I don't need to put up with certain shit you know and you can
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kind of say what you want to say and you know that's what was so funny about the
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Sophia character she just like spoke her mind there was no filter I think people
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really love that about them but yeah you know and and you know rightly so be knew
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what she liked and what she didn't like you know you don't make all those hours
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of television and not you know she was starring as Maude so she kind of knew
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and you know she got to a level in her career she knew what she could do that
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would be funny you know and I think that's why you see certain actors rise
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to that level of success because they're able to harness all this whatever talent
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they have in their specialness and be able to use it you know play it you know
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when I was studying acting we would say your body is your instrument and she
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really knew how to play her instrument well and in when I teach acting some
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actors they come to me I'm like why are you not working every day but they don't
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know how to they're not in tune with their body and so they don't know how to
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use it to its best advantage yeah no I get that I wonder too because you
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mentioned it earlier how you know your names are on three scripts and some some
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really big episodes some some monumental episodes but I just wonder what so what
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exactly does that mean because you talked about how you you probably played a part
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on on all that the scripts on that first season so was it the person's name on
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it's the one that actually kind of came up with the idea and didn't just be the
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one punching it up or what is it what's that look like no it's more of a
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clerical thing usually what it is you're the writer or writers that go off and
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write the first draft that's how you get your name on something sometimes on a
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show you're in such a hurry and a panic that they'll pick a name but everybody
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will write it sometimes it's a divvy up scene if you're really in a rush but
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normally it is an episode you came in and pitched but sometimes I'll just say
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I don't really want to write this or you should write this I'm writing something
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else but it's whoever goes off and does the first draft is pretty much 99% of the
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time would get the writing credit my catch sometimes is broken up it could be
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story by and then screenplay by and the sun usually it's just the whole thing
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together I got you I got you so I mean in retrospect this is a an easy thing to
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ask now but but you know who knows everyone thinks that what they're doing
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is the the next biggest thing but did you guys even realize you kind of had
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lightning in a bottle at that moment and that you would you know 30 almost 40
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years later be sitting and talking to me about it you sitting there in
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Indianapolis in Indianapolis drinking vodka I'm just gonna spread rumors about
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you no I knew it was special because the actors involved and I knew it was really
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good writing and I knew it was really funny and right away you could tell
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audiences were connecting to it just by the studio audiences before it aired and
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then once it started airing it just started exploding within ratings and
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people all ages loved it and I think it's my Midwestern upbringing that
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really taught me to stop and take it in and appreciate it and so every step of
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the way I felt really really lucky that we had this opportunity with these
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actors in this show the whole thing together but you know when you're young
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you don't think of 20 years down the line you're just thinking keep this job
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and I want people to like me and I want a career and all those other things
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happening you're not thinking about I wonder if like new writers today I mean I
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guess a little bit you do when we were writing the Lifetime movie sometimes we
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would laugh and go oh is this gonna be on a t-shirt in 25 years you know but
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it's hard to come up with like a like a meme kind of line you know you have to
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really write truthfully and if they become memes or t-shirts that's that's
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icing on the cake but you always have to serve the characters and the story yeah
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I like that for sure and as much as I I would love to just talk about Golden
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Girls the entire time I want to touch I want to touch on the rest of your
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career I want to touch on Roseanne and I'd be like do not touch Roseanne that's
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exactly the question I'm gonna ask you moving into Roseanne I think that was a
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little bit of a different experience I mean it was a monumental show as well
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but it was a different world I think that you were I don't remember what what
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your shirt said you a writer number what 13 there you go so it was a it was a
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different world I think you know we talked about Bea Arthur being
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intimidating but I feel like Roseanne Barr probably took it to a different
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level God there would be no I was warned do not let her see the whites of your
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eyes or she'll fire you but I was delusional and I thought for some reason
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I had magical powers it's a little bit of my Jesus complex and I thought if I
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hugged her I would make her all better and she would love the world and be very
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happy and positive I didn't know that much about mental illness at the time
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which I've since learned about it and it's pretty heavy and you know her
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issues now seem to be even exasperated I mean I can't even you know even try to
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explain where where she gets some of her crazy thoughts now I really feel there's
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she's kind of gone off a little bit you know probably offer medication on Roseanne
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they tried to kind of work some new medications just the right degree to
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what they call feed the monster they had a network star and they had to I think
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someone made a documentary called feeding the monster about her I think
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we're in it but it's about you know all those stars back then when you think of
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Cosby and Tim Allen and you know they were these stand-up comics that they
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created these shows around and they needed to keep them going so they were
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gonna keep Roseanne going at all costs and Carsey Warner the producers were
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banned by Roseanne to come on set but again it was feeding the monster and for
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them having you know multiple episodes and a big hit show is more important
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for them to I guess walk on to a set and so they were never around and even though
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we were in the building with them they were upstairs and in the corner you know
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we knew them because we knew some of the executives and they would talk to us
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have us come up and talk about developing other shows but yeah it was a
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very very interesting way of shooting the show Roseanne I didn't like a lot of
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takes she didn't care if her hair was messed up she was just she wanted to
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feel very raw and spontaneous so it would be like we would we'd be done
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within an hour I mean sometimes even less and which is a lot when you're like
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you know doing different takes or different scenes in different locations
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but she just kept it going keep going keep going and I think that's another
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reason why her show is still so popular and still so influential because it did
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feel like real life then when I went to Moscow in 2015 to help them develop a
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Russian Roseanne show first what we did was we translated the script word for
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word into Russian and I worked with a Russian writer and then we had to have
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them adapted to their culture and their story and they kept saying well why
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isn't the show funnier they wanted to be big and broad in a big sitcom and I had
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to explain to them that's not what Roseanne was and that's what I loved
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about it it was more like real life and it was really funny but also there were
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moments that were sad or scary or tough tough story to deal with well I'm
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thinking vodka here's cheers gal right oh my god I learned how to drink vodka
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there I didn't know you drank it they laughed at me when I was said I want it
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with my dinner they're like no you do shots before dinner and you bang you
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pour a little thing and you bang the table and then you go to your mom but
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you do that like five or six times if you had a big family and then suddenly
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before food comes you're just like I like I need to get get a cab and get home
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and I think I've heard you talk about it but I assume you talked about just
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translating it into to Russian you know some of the topics covered in Roseanne I
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am sure was not going to to fly on Russian television so it was it I mean
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were you guys starting that censoring process or what that look like well that
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was a big concern when I got the job and I was like I prayed that I would get a
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job here in the US and I wouldn't have to go because Sony had been talking about
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me going over there and I had seen Phil Rosenthal did a documentary about going
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over there and being one of the first Americans to take a sitcom which she did
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with everybody loves Raymond and it's still being done there now they like
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burned through all the episodes and they were just are writing new ones but I
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didn't get another job so I had to go and I actually made a lot of great
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friends I really loved it I if it wasn't the political climate now I would love
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to go back again it was a really cool country and it also opened my eyes just
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to how different people live and you know being in an environment that's
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really controlled by the government in different ways like I didn't know that
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on a cloudy day they could send a plane through the clouds and put chemicals to
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open up the clouds to make sunshine like we don't know anything like that here
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and so they would do that so that the people would say look at our government
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brought a sunshine and little things like that along the way I was surprised
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that a lot of my co-workers would openly talk about how they felt about Putin or
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about just the world and then we'd be out at a cafe and I'm like quiet and I
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did go over very paranoid the first thing I did was was contact the American
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consulate and to say here's my address here's where I am but as far as content
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I was very concerned and one day I did call Sony before it like a week before I
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left and I said I've been reading a lot about you know you could get jailed if
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you do anything talk about LGBTQ content anything I said you do know I wrote the
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lesbian kiss episode so what happens if I'm at work and someone starts talking
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about or asked me what episode and they were like we're just dealing with the
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first season or two so you don't have to bring it up okay I won't bring it up and
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it never came up but yeah one of the actresses we did test for the show I
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found she was a singer and really funny actress she was one of the few people in
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Russia that I think she had an LGBTQ family member or uncle and she was very
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progressive and there it was you know you can't talk like that in public but
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she was she became very popular and I think she would have been good she was
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a little old for the part but she had the right qualities that Roseanne had I
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did not know before going over there that they don't have any comedy stores
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or you know stand-up comedy menu I would think that would be very popular that
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people could you know get drunk and listen to comics and that's how Roseanne
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got found so I got to Russia and I said you know just take me out every night to
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a comedy club and go oh no no we don't have those here hmm so someone could
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make a killing if they opened up I should talk to Polly Shore about that yeah
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yeah and I guess it's just too bad that it didn't work out a little better you
404
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,800
could have you could have been Bill Rosenthal you could we could be talking
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now with you somewhere else eating your way across the world right I know I
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could be yes oh I love I love his show and yeah I don't know how we stay so thin
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because they eat so much and but he and I know his wife Monica Horan and they
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have been very supportive of my theatrical endeavors out here and I adore
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them and they're they're good good people I love to hear that and I want to
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I want to move right into the next show and this is one that has a cult following
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too that I never seen the first episode of so somebody be upset about it but oh
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hey go well we're good obviously we're talking about Gilmore Girls I I from
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listening to you in the past I think it was a fun one day to be on but also a
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maybe a tense stressful one so talk about that you see a pattern here of
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these you know wonderful shows and very tense working relationships it was tense
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so we've got to be friends with Amy Sherman or Amy Sherman Palladino at that
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point we met her on Roseanne and stayed friends with her and would help run
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pilots and things and then she was going through many writers of four years and
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Gilmore Girls and she invited us out for drinks and asked us if we wanted to go
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on staff for the show and we were in development and making some good coin on
421
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,480
that and to the my shock my writing partner said yes and we agreed to you
422
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:05,120
know go on it for a year and I'm so glad I did it was a great writing
423
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,240
experience to write that genre and that style and for all those wonderful
424
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:16,960
wonderful actors and I met so many great friends cast members and fans because I
425
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,200
go every year to the Gilmore Fan Festival which is called the Fan Fest
426
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,200
Society and we're doing it again October 18th through 20th in Guilford
427
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,280
Connecticut and it's super fun and it's not like a con where you're waiting in
428
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,880
line at tables you're hanging out with the writers and actors and creative
429
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,920
people from the shows and just you know we do a lot of panels and things but
430
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,200
it's we're at the bar all just like being silly and I'm not karaoke-ing but
431
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:50,480
some people will I gotcha well I don't know too much more about it so we'll
432
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,720
we're gonna move into the next area and the question I have there is you know we
433
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:59,240
talked about with Roseanne that you came in few seasons and we talked about
434
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:05,120
Gilmore Girls just a few seasons in I talked to the actress who played the
435
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,520
second mom in Fresh Prince of Bel Air and and we kind of talked about what what
436
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,720
it's like to kind of come into an area as an actor you know taking over a
437
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:21,720
different role my question to you is do you find you know in writing it easier
438
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:25,640
harder or just different when you come in with established characters and
439
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,520
established roles rather than just writing kind of writing what you you see
440
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,640
see as a character from from scratch I think they both have pros and cons I
441
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,800
mean there's really something exciting about creating a show and creating where
442
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,760
it's gonna go but there's also something so wonderful about having recurring
443
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,360
characters and then taking them into different areas with Golden Girls we
444
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,520
came on in season one so there only been a few episodes but we were there when we
445
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:03,800
named St. Olaf St. Olaf so you get to see what worked in the pilot and
446
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:09,760
continued on you know with you know Rose's crazy stories and picture at
447
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:16,320
Sicily and things like that when you luckily with Golden Girls it was very
448
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,920
popular when you're on a show that has having some ratings issues and people
449
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,040
aren't watching it then everybody panics and tries to second guess what could
450
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:29,320
make it into a hit show with Gilmore Girls it was great and with Roseanne
451
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:34,760
because they were really the people running the shows were interested in the
452
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,360
honesty of the characters and wanting to always move them forward and challenge
453
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,480
them so as a writer that's exciting because you get to you know get into
454
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,920
some messy stuff and figure out how those characters that we cut we know how
455
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,460
they would deal with them and take them into new and different places which we
456
00:39:52,460 --> 00:39:56,880
did like with Roseanne with the lesbian kiss or the Roseanne episode where DJ
457
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,640
steals a car and she smacks him and then it suddenly reminds her and brings her
458
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,840
back to the time when her dad hit her when she vowed to never do what her
459
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:12,080
father did and how that affected her with Gilmore Girls we decided on our
460
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,760
season for it to be all about relationships coming together and
461
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,040
breaking apart so every relationship in the show either came together or we
462
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:26,640
split them up for a little bit and it was really cool to see what that did to
463
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:33,160
the dynamics of everybody no I think that is that is really cool and I guess
464
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,440
I kind of want to talk about now because you know we we are talking about the the
465
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,920
we you've mentioned your writing partner a few times but I mean what's what's
466
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:48,560
that like first of all is that is most writing done kind of as a as a theme I
467
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,520
can't imagine they're all at lifelong teams like you guys have been but talk
468
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,760
about I guess just having that writing partner being able to have somebody to
469
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,840
bounce things off of and and maybe you know when things aren't going so well to
470
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,560
grab the wheel when when you're about to jump off the cliff I've been really
471
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:13,000
lucky to have my best friend be my writing partner since college I didn't
472
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,400
ever think I could become a writer because I wasn't a reader or a writer I
473
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,600
knew this idea I really didn't know what a writing partnership was but I knew
474
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:27,080
that there was another human being out there that could bring into my sphere
475
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,920
all the things that I didn't know about I like about the written word and I
476
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,960
didn't feel I was that educated I know it was funny I knew it was creative and
477
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:45,640
clever but I wasn't like about the words and writing is about words so I conjured
478
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,840
him up a little candle and conjured him up and he just appeared luckily very
479
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:57,040
quickly and we just hit it off and luckily and you know we found a formula
480
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:02,600
that has kept us to this day to be really connected and you know there were
481
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,320
times when he didn't really want to work and he kind of had a midlife crisis and
482
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,680
want to pull back didn't tell me though and you know I thought we were going
483
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,240
towards a certain goal and working on TV shows after TV shows and kind of work
484
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:21,400
near way up and he just got burned out and did not want to work in it and on
485
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,360
them anymore and that's when I kind of had to reinvent myself and you know
486
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,200
we've gotten into movies as well but that's when I returned back to theater
487
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,280
and started directing plays and then very quickly started writing plays and
488
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,120
also going back into teaching where I started teaching actors and also
489
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:46,920
teaching writing and I'm so glad I had that in my life but I think that's a real
490
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,600
lesson in for anybody in any job is to keep reinventing yourself and being
491
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:57,880
curious about life and being scrappy and figuring out how to survive you know so
492
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,440
many people have had to get second or third jobs and I had to like figure out
493
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:08,080
a way to continue to have any income when he really wanted to pull back and
494
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:14,080
was saying no to a lot of possibilities. Yeah I want you to kind of highlight the
495
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,160
the work that you've done in in the world of plays whether it's the writing
496
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,320
or the directing of them what the things that you've done I know that there's
497
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,360
been quite a few plays that you've written some some that kind of is the
498
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,720
the male version of the Golden Girls some that have dealt with some really
499
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:37,040
really you know intense topics like I believe what have you dealt with suicide
500
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,800
you dealt with a lot of a lot of different things so just talk a little
501
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:46,240
bit about you know that that world. Well the gay men's Golden Girls is Silver
502
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,800
Foxes and it started as a TV pilot for logo and then when they didn't have money
503
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,840
to make the show even after we had an amazing reading in my living room with
504
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,280
George Takei and Leslie Jordan and Bruce Vlanch and Melissa Peterman and
505
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:06,080
Sherry O'Terri and Daniel Gaither and Todd Sherry we decided when no network
506
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,360
or streaming company would read the script we would turn it into a play
507
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,880
because a play I could produce and we could get it produced so we did and we
508
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:21,280
had our world premiere last year to sold out audiences in Dallas and it's about
509
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,680
to have its its Midwest premiere at the Evolution Theatre in Columbus Ohio
510
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:32,560
September 6th which I will be at and hopefully it'll be be done more places
511
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:39,600
but also I wanted as funny and real as that play is I think that's what was so
512
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,480
great about Roseanne and Golden Girls they did was dealt with real issues but
513
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:52,880
in a humorous way without pandering and Silver Foxes does that as well as is you
514
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:59,120
know how do as gay men we get older and find our you know formed families and
515
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:06,520
and survive and be happy and healthy but about 11 12 years ago a very close friend
516
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:11,120
of my dad by suicide and I didn't know how to handle it as a comedy writer and
517
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,240
he did leave a suicide note which I couldn't get I was mentioned in it but
518
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:21,520
he sent it to his ex-lover and I couldn't get it so it led me to my
519
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:27,240
computer and reading other suicide notes hoping I would find the why in other
520
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:32,880
people's notes and that led me to creating a play called right before I go
521
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:40,040
which is our IG HT but sounds like right which you they do they write them and so
522
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:46,480
I created an hour play using real suicide notes and facts and I've been
523
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:54,680
doing it since 2015 in 2017 I think a Broadway director I was working with
524
00:45:54,680 --> 00:46:00,360
suggested I put my story with my friend into the play and I thought it as long
525
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:06,040
as I could and then I started writing a narrator character that was not going to
526
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:13,720
be me and after many readings I was urged to just make it me and so the first
527
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:19,640
reading of it in Orlando I just said hire somebody old and funny to play me
528
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:29,080
and they did and the day before the the production the actor got a big pan gig
529
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:34,800
and had to leave and the director says Stan you're in and I've been doing it
530
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,400
all over the United States with some famous people Blair Underwood and
531
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,120
Vanessa Williams and Hill Harper and Virginia Madsen Academy board nominee
532
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:53,440
yeah yeah and so that's been really cool there's a school doing the the student
533
00:46:53,440 --> 00:47:00,840
version on Friday in Philadelphia New York and upstate New York and so that's
534
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,720
so wonderful that this play is now being done all over the world and provoking
535
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:09,960
conversation about a really important topic I love it well I've taken you all
536
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:15,200
the way to the brink of your time do you have time to talk about your book always
537
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:21,000
time to talk about you like how I did that I made sure that we we covered
538
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,200
everything I needed to cover push push you're gonna talk about the book so yeah
539
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:31,560
I know that it was a long time coming so talk about how the book you know
540
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,280
happened and then how would let's bring Roseanne back in how she wound up on the
541
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:43,040
back back cover right okay well it came about because everybody kept asking me
542
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,480
how I could write for women being a man and such a young man and so I want to
543
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,880
tell that story in my life story and then I went back and started going
544
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:57,520
through all my old journals which I kept since college and I compared my times on
545
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:02,840
all the TV shows and all the women with how I feel about it now and that kind of
546
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,280
how it started and I mentioned it at an early Gilmore Girls Fan Festival and
547
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,720
then they were my accountability coaches and kept saying come on we want the book
548
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:17,960
and the the the good of Kovac was I was stuck inside the house and I forced
549
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:24,000
myself and luckily got a publisher Indigo publishing Indigo River sorry and
550
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,080
I just started outlining and I started just drinking a lot of coffee and
551
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:33,680
sugar-free Red Bull and that's how this happened so it's stories about all the
552
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:40,000
wonderful women I've worked with and Roseanne so that that was a little bit
553
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,080
of a fight with my publishers I wanted the Anne Roseanne here but I think they
554
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:50,000
were afraid that she might get mad I was like bring it on like I can handle her
555
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:56,960
think yeah but it really is a Valentine's all the women it's not you
556
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,520
know there's just a little tea spill but it's I don't get mean and bitchy because
557
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:07,440
that's just not me and yeah I don't see what good can come of that but maybe if
558
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,680
you take me out for a cocktail I'll I'll tell a little bit more there you go I
559
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,000
like that I guess I wonder too when we just talked about your plays and we
560
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,680
talked about your book and maybe you've you've been added enough you know with
561
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:26,000
shows that you don't even care but given that you know plays are kind of your
562
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,120
baby so to speak if you're the only one writing them the book is your own life
563
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:36,600
story so I wonder when what's the harder of the two to to grapple with when maybe
564
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,880
you get a bad review because I know you've talked about at least some bad
565
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,680
reviews when it comes to the book and maybe it and maybe a little bit of the
566
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:51,920
tea spelling does any of that affect you either way I mean we really only got bad
567
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:58,200
reviews with Polly Shorshow the book got really good reviews I mean you know you
568
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,340
can stress about a few things that people commented negatively like some
569
00:50:03,340 --> 00:50:08,320
people were just like you know you name drop a lot I'm like but those are the
570
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,160
people I worked with I can't change their names that's just that's been my
571
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:17,280
life I'm not I feel lucky and I'm pinching myself that I'm even in rooms
572
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:22,800
with like a Jane Fonda or Lily Tomlin or any of those people so that's just the
573
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,840
reality and then then you'll read a review says well he doesn't talk enough
574
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:31,120
about show business so I'm like you can't win in the way and Lauren Graham
575
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,720
did tell me when I did this reality show on Bravo she said don't read any
576
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:41,320
comments online because it can be really hurtful but of course you do look
577
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:47,800
occasionally and but I do like nicer reviews better and comments and I just I
578
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:53,740
know so many people have gotten so much from this book and I think they've
579
00:50:53,740 --> 00:50:58,400
gotten it for their own life about keeping going and reinventing yourself
580
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,600
and picking yourself up when you have something bad happen or a work thing how
581
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:07,280
do you keep going and then ultimately people dealing with grief and for me it
582
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,360
was the grief of my mother passing and unfortunately that was the last chapter
583
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:17,360
of my book that I was not prepared for so that's not name-dropping that's just
584
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:25,280
real life and and my journey in figuring out a way to survive and want to keep
585
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:30,080
living in a world where my best friend and biggest cheerleader is no longer
586
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:36,520
here with me I mean she's here with me here but she's not physically here but
587
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:42,400
there's lots of laughs too and you know I am the person I am because of her and
588
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:49,200
it really is a testament to her so as Mother Day is coming up you know it's
589
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:55,960
especially this book means a lot to me that someone said I never met your
590
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:01,120
mother but I feel like I know her by the person you are today and that meant a
591
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:07,840
lot and some people have read it I just said some young guy DM me on Instagram
592
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,900
and said I you know after I you got me crying at the end he said I went to my
593
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:18,640
mom I found her and I just gave her a big hug and so that's if it just did that
594
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,860
I think that's pretty cool no absolutely how can people pick up the book I can
595
00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:27,920
people all along with you I don't know whether you have any anything coming up
596
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:34,240
you want to you want to plug but I guess here's the time here's the time yes you
597
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:39,460
can find me on Instagram Zimmerman Stan I have a website Zimmerman stan.com you
598
00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:43,320
can get the book obviously at Amazon or there's many other places local bookstores
599
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:48,960
or invite me to your town get me there fly me in and I'll have to do book
600
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,520
signing I love meeting people I love hearing personal stories about you know
601
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:59,200
what golden girls or Gilmore girls of Roseanne meant to you growing up no
602
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,880
well I really really appreciate your time thanks so much thank you great to see
603
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,680
you so that was Stan Zimmerman what an honor and a thrill just to speak with
604
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:13,080
him I urge you to check out his book I was able to pick it up and it's it's
605
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:19,640
just an amazing story about just kind of the triumphs of you know his life and it
606
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,560
wasn't always an easy thing that's that's for sure you know be between
607
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:30,840
finding his own identity finding the identity in his in his writing you know
608
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:36,400
kind of that that look from being a TV show writer to now writing some plays
609
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:42,840
and and what it looks like to to partner up with another person in your I guess
610
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:48,200
your career endeavors for so long and and then of course the the overarching
611
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,760
kind of topic of his book and that is you know what he gained from learning a
612
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,920
lot from the strong women in his his life you know growing up and and and
613
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:05,760
beyond so I urge you to check out the girls from golden to Gilmore I urge you
614
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,240
to to follow along with with Stan he's got so many amazing things in the works
615
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:18,180
it's just an amazing amazing story to to read when it comes to that book amazing
616
00:54:18,180 --> 00:54:23,320
stories that he's shared with us for so many years so you know I just think back
617
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:28,040
at some of those those episodes in that first season that he wrote for the
618
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,640
Golden Girls and here there's some of my favorite episodes thinking some of those
619
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:40,120
lines that that are in them I I'm just I'm beside myself that I was able to to
620
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:46,000
speak with him so I appreciate you Stan I appreciate you being here for those who
621
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,680
first time listening do follow along lots of amazing guests in the past a lot
622
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:56,360
of amazing people from from TV a lot of true crime and Olympians and all kinds
623
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,600
of amazing people with with awesome stories to share so over 180 guests in
624
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:05,200
the past so check those out a lot of amazing guests coming up as well so hope
625
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:11,920
you'll join in each week but yeah follow along on Instagram that's the easiest
626
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:18,720
way to know what has has has been published that's not enough podcast on
627
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:23,840
Instagram Jackson F dot com not enough with Jackson F on Facebook go leave a
628
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:28,560
written review on Apple that helps a lot leave a five-star review on Apple and on
629
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:34,960
Spotify that's really really appreciated as well but yeah we'll see you next week
630
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:41,000
take it away Chris this has been not in a huff with Jackson huff thank you for
631
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,400
listening be sure to join us next time where we will interview another amazing
632
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guest who is sure to make you laugh or make you think or pay maybe even both
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but until then keep being awesome you