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Speaker 1: Wow, what is Welcome to another edition of the NFL Fantasy Football Show. It's me your man, MG, Marcus Grant, and I am fully vaccinated. I'm excited about that. We're getting hopefully a little bit closer to getting back to I would say normal and these or normal in air quotes here, we're getting back to our our before times life something like that. Anyway, a fun show for you, as we normally try to do here. But the one that I'm very very excited about a chance to talk to a guy who has maybe one of the most unique careers I think I have encountered in the fantasy space. And if you have played fantasy football, uh, you know Beyonce just a casual level for any amount of time. It is a name you probably have encountered, and you know, uh, it is the one and only Scott Fish Scott. You know, we have interacted on social media for years now. I believe this is the first time we've ever spoken. You know, I want to say face to face, but you know, digitally face to face. I appreciate you coming on the show, man. How are things. I'm good, I'm good, You're right. I think this is the very first time we've been on the same show to go. I've done NFL Fantasy before, but I can't if you are on that show. So yeah, I think I was no. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good, good, good man. I'm so happy to have you here. We are. We're sort of twinning right now. I was like, I'm gonna have Scott Fish on, so I'm gonna break out my my SFB shirt from last year, eagerly awaiting the new shirts for for one to come out so I can snag one of those. But I decided to pull mine out and you are wearing the exact same shirts, so that makes me feel pretty pretty good. So um, but I just wanted I kinda to start with just sort of about you, because you know, you are one of the more recognizable names in this industry. You've been doing this for you've been doing this longer than than I've been doing is professionally fantasy football wise. Um, but you you know, like a lot of people in this industry, you had a day job at one point, you were working for for PepsiCo and kind of doing fantasy stuff on the side. When did you decide that you could sort of make this into a career for yourself. Yeah, you listed there. I worked for Pepsi for fourteen years or so and my back started to give out. It was it was a lot of work. And about four or five years ago I got a full time offer and I took it immediately. The the wife was fully on board. I didn't want to, you know, break my back and break down. And I talked to people like Liz Losa and Matthew Friedman and Mike tech Leer and Matt Harman former stronghold guy right there. Uh, they had just made the jump at about the same time, and and they pretty much talked me into it. They said I wasn't going to regret it, and with the wife behind me, I made that move and have not regretted it a day since. I mean, it obviously has been great, you know. I mean, obviously this was a hobby for a long long time before you you decided to make the move to making it, you know, your your job. You've sort of started though down the path of I mean, they weren't called Debbie leagues at the time, you know, you were you were sort of doing that long before it was fashionable. I mean, people were just sort of playing redraft leagues, and that was kind of the thing. What wasn't about debbie leagues that sort of attracted you to them? Yeah, I like that you mentioned at the top how my path has been really unique for fantasy analysts because I've I've really, I've really jumped around in different areas the industry. But so I started playing in debbie leagues in the late nineties. Um, And basically it was just a way to get the college players that we watched on Sundays on Saturdays onto our big squad are onto our fantasy teams before you know, before they hit the NFL. We we It was it was an added extra fun thing to do and to to watch the Saturday games and know that this guy is gonna be on my fantasy team in a year or two, right, Um, But that's kind of what it was. It was just something extra to do. And that's kind of what led to me being in the industry is I started going on message boards and a o L chat rooms and stuff just trying to find anyone that did debbie leagues and I couldn't find him anywhere. Like Matt Harmon with Reception, Perception, Reception, he was looking for an answer that wasn't being answered out there right like the answer to a question that wasn't being answered. I was trying to find out anything about you know, what I called him at the time right away was college farm system leagues like baseball farm system leaks, and then it changed to Debbie later on, But basically I was looking for a type of league that didn't exist. And so then after a while of that, I created my own site that you know, it was the first site with Debbie Rankings, Debbie podcast, Debby articles. And that's kind of how my name started circulating in the industry because I was doing that one thing that no one else was doing. And and it's so much fun to me to watch these players grow and eventually get to the NFL, and you know them all before they get to the NFL. It's it's just a fun added benefit to dynasty leagues. Did you ever think that that that part of it would take off? Because it's becoming a bigger I mean, has it surprised you? Did you ever think that was gonna happen? You know when you sit back, and I didn't at all, like, not even remotely. But as I sit here in one and and think about it. It's really not surprising though, right, Like I'll preface it with a couple of rhetorical questions here, but how many fantasy players are there? Like how many college football fans are there? Like it feels like the Venn diagram there are sex pretty pretty large, right, So it feels like it it should have become a big thing, and I'm glad it's becoming more and more a big thing. But like mid two thousand, Scott sitting doing his rankings and Google says he's that's the only site doing them. Yeah, he would be pretty surprised. But this was beautiful about this, right man. There's so many ways to play fantasy we we don't we don't league shame, eight team, ten teams, super flex, IDP, devy, doesn't matter. It's it's awesome that we play this game, that we we can create whatever innovative style we want to play, and and there are other like minded folks out there that want to play it too. I think it's you know, it's funny because you know, I'm not the only one. But I referred to this as we we play a game about a game, um, and we really have been able to slice and dice it in so many different ways to kind of fit everything. And I think that the uh, one of the beauties of this is that the more people that we get to kind of join in and to kind of join the party, um, that creates that many more ways. There are so many more different people thinking about this in other ways that maybe we didn't. Um, it's really kind of amazing. And that that made me think. You know, you wrote uh that you played your first Fantasy League into My first one was in four so I was just a couple of years after you, and so made me think about like I wanted to have a moment for us old old guys out there who've been playing this for a long time, because I say this to younger people, you know, especially like college kids or people are just playing. Um, it was a different time. You had to want it. Like I always say, I use old timey words like answering machine and newspaper because like you have to physically pull in your line up and then like scour like the local newspaper to look at box scores to kind of figure out your score. Um. I mean I would imagine Scott for that's hard enough for the NFL. I would think for you know, playing your farm Systems or Debbie Lees or whatever you were calling it at the time, and had to be just I mean, you really had to want it, and you really had to absolutely. I thought for a minute there we're going to talk about our old Carl Pickens Herman more lineups or something. Um, yeah, you really did have to want it. And I kind of forgot about that, and I'd never want to go back. But I think about it, and I think about this nostalgia of it. The you're watching a game and when a game break happened, that was the most important moment in the game for you because it might be your player that just scored, or that do do doo do doo, dude or whatever that pops up on the bottom of the screen. Huge deal. Every time that would happened and it was just so exciting. Um And I feel like we've lost a little bit of that, but we've gained so many other things, like it's so easy to play now that yeah, it's it's a it's a beautiful thing. But I do I do miss a little bit of the nostalgia of some of those things. I think about that when you know, every once in a while, maybe the app is slow and updating, and so somebody's you know, rushing touchdown does it hit like literally instantly, and somebody will be in my mentions like asking what's wrong with the app, and like part of me like we'll step back and be like, hey, like I lived in a world where I might not get updated standing until like Wednesday or Thursday. Right, yeah, right, So so the fact that you had to wait an extra five minutes for you Dalvin Cook touchdown to show up, like I'm not you know, um I'm speaking of which do you want to talk about your Herman Moore Carl Pickins lineups? No, that's all right. We can go off on a lot of tangents. I was just talking the other day. I mentioned to Stefania Bella, she's a foreign Iris fan, that I remember my ninety nine D five rookie draft jumping on a chair being excited that J. J. Stokes was going to be the next Jerry Rice, he was going to replace him. And then, of course I think Jerry Rice played longer than J. J. Stokes did even after that point. But it's funny. It's funny, you say, because I think I saw that one of your bios that you were hyping JJ Stokes. And I will say this in I was a I was a college sophomore at USC, and so J. J. Stokes had just finished at U C. L A. And I remember his last year there. He wrecked us when we played. He just absolutely wrecked the USC. And then the forty Niners drafted him, and me and my friends who were four Niner fans, were like, all right, well this is the silver lining, right, Like he's gonna be the Niners and he's gonna ball out. So um. So just that's just to say that, don't feel bad. You weren't the only one. He was the first rounder him in Galloway and Westbrook that year. There are such high helps. Yeah yeah, I mean Gallaway was the only guy of that that trio that actually sort of you know, had a decent career. I think that for it. UM. So obviously, the thing that you may be are most known for is the Scott Fish Bowl. Uh this is year eleven, um, But I know it started as something else that was the ff Oasis Invitational a long time ago before it made the transition, um, but now it has become a huge, huge deal. At what point did you realize this was becoming one of the premier events of the fantasy season. Wow, that's that is a tough one. I think it's probably about year five. In year four, I had a wait list about twenty people, um and several of them got in for players that disappeared. But in year five, I think we had more people not get in than actually got in. I think that year was three and sixty teams and we had four hundred some not get in. And I knew it was getting big then. And then the following year is when that year six is when everyone's like all the analysts started playing. We had some analysts, but I think it was the year that analysts were like, oh, this guy's playing all play. Oh this guy's playing all play, and and they just started loading up. And then we got celebrities like you know, James d A from Psych and Scott Porter or Jason Street from Frida night Lights, and like Mike Mills from RM, Shane Battier plays now, like we got a turtle from Honorage, Jerry fer Our plays. Now, you know, we got a bunch of celebrities, former MLB players and stuff, and you know, actually, I have the answer for you it was year six or seven when the O G Stronghold, you and Adam and Alex and that's when you get That's when I knew we'd made it. When the O G Stronghold jumped into the fray, That's when we made it. You know. It's it's I mean, I appreciate you saying that, even it's true, but it is funny because like to see it, and yeah, I would, I'm always excited to kind of get involved and invited to things like that. Um, but to see like how big it is, I mean, I think I think I recognized it. It might have been my second or third year in the league, and and like that's when I started really paying attention to like the hashtag popping up, um, you know, when when the drafts were starting, and the hashtags and the fact that, um, you know what I think you know, I think it is it's not even so much the hashtags. It's the people who are like, I can't deal with us, I'm muting the hashtag, right. I feel like that is when that is when you have reached saturation point. That is when you have reached the point of like, um, when you start getting blowback. It's like Okay, I think I've made it U which is a weird thing to say, but that's that's a Twitter life. It's totally Twitter life. Um, you talk about the people who who apply and have to get weight listed because there's just no spots. I know, you get so many entries every year. How do you go about picking, you know, who who gets the golden ticket in any given year. Yeah, that's that's always the tough part. Every the first year, the first wave or two of invites, I have to do them in waves of several hundred at a time because otherwise I go crazy because I I try to do this. I try to make it personal. I send each invite, you know, like I I, Well, I do it very I have a lot of automation to it, but I want to like be very hands on with it. But uh, the first couple of waves are basically analysts that we know. Ryan McDonell helps me. Ryan and I know and we know that they're in at the site, the website, they're they're an analyst, they're they're active. We know who they are. We get them in right away because you know they're an active analyst in the industry, and we know who they are. Then you know, as it goes further down, it becomes fantasy sites that are trying to you know, make their way up that we might not know as well. This because this event is really about community. It's really about connecting and charitable you know, uh, charitable endeavors. But it's uh, you know, we want the whole community to get together for one big event. So we start going through those sites. And as far as fans, we do lots of contests, We do lots of giveaways. Whenever we go on shows, we try to give away spots. Um, we let shows give away their own spots. And we have a fun little random fan button in our back our back end, our our adminary that you just click it and it puts a random fan in. So um, there are lots of ways you can get in. But it's it is a process, no, no question at all. You talk about the charitable, charitable part of this, and that is I know a huge part of of what uh you know, the fish Bowl is, you know, the fantasy cares, you know, initiatives and everything. Um. For you, when did you decide that that this was going to be sort of your way to outreach, you know, to to combine these two things of charity and fantasy. When when did you decide that this is going to be part of it? Yeah, so that came around that year five or six Zone as well. It was I had a friend in the industry that did a small toys for top drive just for you know, he got toys together in Las Vegas to give away the kids in Las to get to your toys for Todds in Las Vegas. And I helped him with that one year and the then next year he couldn't do it anymore. And this was also coinciding with I had just had a heart attack at thirty five and forty one. Now, so, um, I just had a heart attack. And you get that sense in the back of your brain that you just you want to be the best possible version of yourself. You want people to see you as the best possible You have young children, you know, I want them to you know, see that's the version of me I want them to see. And you just want to do good. And I think, uh, those things coinciding at the same time, Uh kind of led to it was either SFB six or seven. We we brought in a charitable element. Um, I've been going on radio and podcast for a long time. Tagging at the end, I think you want to say, and I'd say, give one of your entry fees to charity. The league won't miss it. You're doing something good. There's a hundred thousand fantasy leagues. If we all got together and gave one entry fee to charity, we could do a ton of good out there. And I think it really came to life right in that SFB five or six zone, right after that heart attack, right when I took over the toys for Todd Strive for that guy. Just a perfect you know, confluence of events right at the same time. And I've I've seen you know, a lot more leagues and participated in a lot more leagues where that is kind of becoming the thing where you know, the the entry fee is being donated to charity, or you know, the people involved are playing for a particular charity and not for their own personal benefit. Um. And you know, I mean even if you will say I feel like that is a direct influence of what you have done, um, which look, I think what you've done is amazing. I think, and I think it's it's been pretty cool to sort of see this sort of spread out throughout the industry. Um, you know, because look, you're right, we all play in so many leagues. Like you know, at some point it's fine. We just you know, if you throw a few bucks to help somebody else out. I think that that sort of works out. I think it's it's good for everybody. Yeah, I can't tell you which one. I think. I like that aspect more than the dev side you mentioned. You know, what's it like to see devy having grown this bag and it's amazing, But seeing five, six, seven years ago, I don't remember seeing charitable leagues out there much at all, and now you can't turn around without seeing them. There's a tournament for this charity, there's a tournament for that charity. There's and I think if i've if that is you know, a decent part due to what I've done. Man, that's something I'm hugely proud of and and I'm I hope that becomes my leg as the in the fancy industry when I retire or whatever, because that's it's beautiful that that has happened. I love seeing it. That would be amazing. Yeah, And I feel like we've also seen it even beyond fantasy. I mean, I immediately think of Bills fans donating to the Andy Dalton Foundation after the Bills, after the Bengals helped the Bills get into the playoffs a couple of years ago. So, um, it is. I think it's. I think it's it's an amazing thing to do. Um. A couple of things about the fish Bowl that that really entertained me besides just playing it. One, I'm glad you said entertained instead of Annoyer like the Okay, So the I gotta ask about the fake names or the names of fictional characters that show up in the waiver wire. How did that stuff? Because I remember like once like meeting quarterback or something because like somebody was hurt or on a buy and I'm scrolling down and I see like Johnny Utah and Shane Falco and I'm like, how did that start? Yeah? It actually started in SFB three or four when the theme was Technobowl and we had Bo Jackson and Tom Rathman and stuff, and I thought it would be fun to throw in some old school Techmobowl characters, um, and to be draft able, and people notice they had a good time with it. And so I've tried to every year include something like that. Some characters this year the themes of music, and I think we might see some some you know, musicians entered the draft all right. I mean it's like I noticed that that first yard play, Like I said, I was scrolling the waiver while looking for him. And now it's become the thing where like, as soon as the draft is over, like I go scrolling through to see like a bunch of names who might be there. Um, you mentioned the theme is music, and I know that's that's a big part of this every year, trying to figure out what the theme is going to be. But we had cartoons, We've had I think kids toys. Um, are are there any out there that you haven't done that you're still sort of itching to do? I think eleven years in, I'm I'm it's more to the point where I'm struggling to try to figure one out each year than it is itching to do one. One that came up for potentially this year, but the wheels were really in motion, and I uh, influential women came up as a possibility for this year, but it came up after we already had music planned. We had a bunch of stuff in motion. And I talked to some women behind the scenes, women in the industry, and we felt, maybe do that next year and do it right, you know, have a website op that has all these amazing women and what they did, so people can you know, have it as a learning experience and and so I think that's something we might do next year. My wife keeps recommending it should be foods I refused to eat because she says we can get a hundred two hundred divisions easily just for that. Uh yeah, I I do have exciting I know that you and I have similar some some foods that we will not eat together. We'll eat, I guess in comments. So I I do. I do have that in my in my back pocket to ask you a little bit later. But um, the other thing again, this is all part of you having one of the more unique careers in this industry. You and Ryan McDow will do a podcast about and four commissioners. Um, it's not I mean, it is not an orthodox line of thinking, but it is. Again you talk about questions that need to be answered that really nobody's answering. That feels like one what what is that? What made you started why why did you decide to do a podcast four commissioners? It was I yeah, I'm not exactly sure what made us decided, but it was a thing where Ryan mcdonalen and I consistently got peppered with commissioner questions and a lot of them were similar questions that we feel like we've answered many times before. UM. So we we realized with all these questions and these stories and these you know, they they shoot out their interesting league ideas at us too, because they were were kind of known for innovative creative leagues out there. So we decided to start a start our podcast, Commission Impossible, to help other commissioners out with their you know, they're tricky issues. Um also for league members to like here interesting settings that maybe they want to bring to their league. We discussed bad commission stories, creative league ideas. I mentioned, uh we go o for listener questions. But the coolest thing I think about about Commission Impossible is it's evergreen and you don't see that in the fantasy industry. Like you can go back and listen to episode four and it's got stuff that's probably relevant still today. People tell us all the time they go back and they listen to all our episodes after they find us because they're only twenty to thirty minutes apiece. And um, it's I think you're right. I think it was just something that was not out there, kind of like Debby you kind of like whatever, It's just something that was not I didn't see any comming shier podcasts out there. Commissioners said trick podcast. It's a small market, but hey, it's a it's a very interesting show. It's a small market, but it is I mean in terms of fantasy sports, it is an important market. Um. And I feel like it is maybe the most thankless job when it comes when it comes to fantasy sports. Um, I mean, how many leagues have you been the commissioner of? Have you? Can you even keep count at this point? So I run a commissioner service that currently has over a thousand leagues that I commissioner every year that I commission so that I'm commissioner of every year. I would say if you count each, I don't know thousands, it's thousands upon thousands of leagues I've commissioned. In This upcoming year will be my thirtieth year playing fantasy football. So uh yeah, thousands is what I'll go with. You are like the Pete Rosel of fantasy football. Right, it's a long time. Yeah, I'm gonna say. You know, like kids look it up like there was they were, like there were commissioners before Roger Goodell, believe it or not. So it was a thing that happened. Um, you talk about those some of the different formats and ideas and tweets of the game and how we slice and dice it. What are some of the wildest ones you you can remember being a part of. Oh man, oh this is this is I love this. We have so many we talked about on that show. We talked about so many interesting league ideas. In Ryan and I have done some really really cool ones. Last year I was in one with Ryan that Um, it was much like a guillotine league, which is where the bottom team is axed at the end of each week, the bottom scoring team and his players go to the waiver wire. So that happened. But also it was like a vampire or pirate league where you got to you had had to add matchup and you also stole an appointments player. So like if you're playing against the se Kwon Barkley guy, um the you know or whatever player you could steal him from him, any player, his best player, you get to steal that, and then you draft the players that have been caught each tweak. That was. That was pretty crazy and pretty fun. I've also been in the league that was like a board game, like a D and D game, Dungeons and Dragons game, where you had goals you had to accomplish each week, where your fantasy points would like add up together and you try to take down a monster and then you'd earn gold or whatever, and you you have hit points. Like it combined fantasy with board games, which was quite interesting. And then there's like superpower leagues where you can freeze the guy's score mid game, or you can you have some kind of accelerator that doubles your quarterback score whatever. Like in these these superpowers are tradeable assets, you know, Like there's so many. The creativity is endless in our game, and I've I've played in a lot of them. I love hearing about new ones too. That that is amazing. I'm like, especially you talk about the board games, because for a long time I've referred to fantasy sports as dungeons and dragons for sports nerds. Um, so you you sort of combined those. Which do you think you talk about Vinn diagrams. I think the Vinn diagram of like people who love fantasy sports and people who you know, play like RPGs and stuff like that feel like it's a bigger overlap. Then maybe we want to see that. I think we're all We're all nerds in our own special way. Um, just our areas of nerd a treat tend to be a little bit different. All Um. Obviously, every year there are new leagues, there are new people who decide they want to be commissioners. What advice would you give to somebody who is, you know, thinking about or is becoming a first time commissioner? Yeah, so I guess I have about I have two or three that I usually give to first time commissioners. Is the first one is if you haven't started the league yet, either create the league you want with the settings you want, then go find the owners that that want to play in that style. So you've created what you want, and then you go find the owners or find a group you want to play with, and then decide the rules together. The most issues Ryan and I have heard from emailers is when they try to split the metal. They create a league they want, but then they get the owners and then they start changing the rules. Or you get a group together and you want to either run one running it, but they wanted to be more of a you know, like a democracy for how to create the league. That's where we find the issues. But if you start it with the settings you want and just find owners that want to play in that league, it seems to work out well. Vice versa. If you find eleven other people or whatever, you discuss the league rules, make it together, those seem to work out the best. And the second tip I have is also always have the best interest clause, like the last rule of your things should be should circumstances, issues, or problems arise for which like a remedy is not stated in the rules, the commissioner reserves the right to take whatever actions he deems necessary in the best interest of the league, and that will close loopholes in case someone finds a little loophole that that could hurt the league, that can help close those loopholes when it happens, and and commissioners should always look to close loopholes, not to exploit them, UM make decisions they are best for the league, not what's in the best interests of your team, etcetera, etcetera. That I mean, I feel like that it all makes sense. And I love the point about you know, either setting setting your settings the way you want them or or having to be a democracy and not in between. Like the thought that comes to mind is like, it's like trying to order a pizza right with ten people. Like, if you're trying to order pizzas with ten people, either what's gonna happen is that everybody is essentially gonna get their own pizza or you're going to get one pizza that like nobody really likes because you have to put everything on there to try to satisfy all these people. Uh and in the end, you know, you're gonna get like pineapple and anchovies and black olives and it's gonna be disgusting and nobody's gonna want to eat the pizza. So uh yeah, I think I think that's pretty cool. Um, I can't have you on here and not talk at least something about actual fantasy football beyond the nuts and bolts, and so I you know, I kind of want to pick your brain in terms of, uh, you know, your background obviously is is devy and that sort of thing, and looking at prospects and and and all that. When you are, you know, looking at a group of incoming rookies, for instance, what what is important to you in terms of of who, uh you're going to maybe target when you're drafting, and and and that sort of stuff. Yeah, So I feel like this has changed for me over the years. Back in the day, I used to watch a ton of players and I would look for skills that I thought could translate in the NFL, and I still do to degree, but as I've gotten busier, I found myself depending more on the analysis of some of the great minds and the industry, like you had Emery on Um, like Matt Waldman and stuff. And it puts me in a spot where I can take what they've look at what they've done, and then the smaller amount of watching I do, I can I can you know, see if I agree or not, and and it helps me a little bit with time crunching. I think one thing I found that I put more emphasis on now than I did in the past, and I'm I feel like I've become a better player for it is uh taking a better look at at the draft capital of where players are drafted, because because back in the day, when I watched tons and tons of like from we're talking grainy high school video yeo, of people coming out of high school throughout college, I developed these huge biases for players like and no matter if they were drafting the fourth or fifth round, I'm like, I don't care. I've loved him for three years, you know. And now I'm starting to get to the point where draft capital matters a whole lot more for me, because that does translate to success, but it also really really translates to opportunity in the NFL. And that's something that I didn't do before and I do more now, and I'm I'm I feel like I've I've been better for it. And in Dynasty, I've become much more of a win now player nowadays. And everybody says talent overlanding spot, talent overlanding spot. It's it is true to a degree, but that early landing spot does matter a little. That's why when people when the NFL Draft happens, people's rankings change. The rookie rankings change right after, and it's because of that draft capital and to a lesser degree that Landing spot. Um, I don't factor it quite as much as as the draft capital or what I've watched on them, And I do take it into account because even though Landing's back spot can turn on a dime, it still does matter a little bit earlier, like a look at Diamy Brown, Like I really like Deamy Brown because he's going to be with a d G A F type of throwers. Patrick's potentially can be the starting deep ball contested catch guy for him. I like that a lot more than I possibly did before, you know, and I completely agree. And there are so many things you said there that immediately just like it. It warmed my heart. I mean, you know, first first off, the the the idea of sort of uh kind of leaning on the expertise and knowledge of others, because I say this as the father of a two year old son, like I don't have the time to sit and watch you know, as much tape as I have in the past. So it is about sort of kind of maximizing and using an economy of times. And so maybe you read other people's evaluations and you do your own. You do a little bit of research to figure out how much you agree or disagree. Um, but yeah, I don't. I don't have the time to go back and watch you know, a hundred prospects anymore, just because you know, that's that's sort of life. But the other part of it that that I really sort of gravitate toward is the idea of um, you know, landing spots, draft capital over over town. We all, we all love talent. We all want to find that guy that we think can be that diamond in the rough. UM. But you know, I I see it with you know, you see guys who have like a little bit of a hive right behind them. I made the jumps to mind. I think was Tyler Johnson right in in Tampa, UM. And people love him, and he's a super talented guy. He doesn't get on the field very often because they've got a lot of really talented players ahead of him. I mean, so he may make one spectacular catch in a game and and his hive on Twitter kind of lights up and talks about how he's gonna be a big thing. And maybe he will, but right now he's still continue with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown and Rob Gronkowski and all the talent in the world doesn't necessarily help you. Um, if you're not getting on the field and getting those opportunities. And I think that's a thing that's sometimes I think you're right. I think when you when you watch guys and you you make notes and you study, um, you sort of forget about that part because like, man, I watched this dude play through an entire you know, Max season, and he was running people over and you know, I think he can be great. Um, if his coaching staff doesn't give him the opportunity, it's just it's just never really gonna happen. Um. You mentioned Dammy Brown, who's a guy I think has sleeper potential this year, and then Washington offense. Um, anybody else that that you saw or paid attention to that really has caught your eye this year? Yeah, Well, you know this isn't it's not quite as deep. But I I didn't hate the Bateman spot as much as like he was my wide receiver too before the draft, right, Like, and maybe it's partially because I'm a go for Pan fan, but I feel like he does everything well. I know, he ran like a four or three nine. It doesn't feel like he's got that top end speed, but you know, I guess it is. There be such a good, great contested catch. Guy feels like he does everything well. And Lamar Jackson through three six touchdowns just two years ago. Yeah, like like, I don't think it's the worst spot in the world, but I'm loving when I can get him at the end of the first I like taking Terris Marshall, I mean eight plus percent from the slot. He can jump right into that. Curtis Uh, Samuel Rollo, he's back with Joe Brady, And I love when a college coach is like, you know, I know this guy, I want him and bring him in right like that. It feels like there's a confidence there. And Robbie Robbie Anderson might be gone next year. You know, Terence is a guy that can move outside to UM. I like that. I like guys like Anthony Schwartz, you know, maybe maybe a little more long term, little speedy guy there over in Cleveland, Josh Palmer. You know, it's hard, it's hard to ignore the lack of production in college, but it's also hard to doing nore that Mike Williams might leave after this year, and he would grow up with Justin Herbert over there. So, um, I tend to like we're talking about like Schwartz and Palmer, like fourth round darth Row right like, and this is a draft where after about two, after about a round and a half, maybe the end of the second, you're like, okay, whatever, let's try to figure this out, right, So fourth fourth rounders with some potential like that, those are those are guys that you know I've been taking shots at. It's funny too. It's when you talk about getting past the first maybe the first couple of rounds of you know, a rookie draft or whatever. That's when I feel like that's when I get my Google on the most right. It's like I'll see a list of guys and then maybe you know three or four guys that I'm sort of trying to figure out which. By the way, thank goodness for slow drafts in the rookie drafts man, because if you if you have to put me on a clock, it would be awful. But um, it is it's where you sort of kind of get your Google on and you try to figure out, you know, from from his his draft prospects and pro comparisons to the beat reporters checking out what what you know a guy could be after he's drafted. I think that is where That's where it's a lot of fun to try to figure out, you know, will you know what will Josh Palmer be? Um, you know a few years from now. You are the second person in the last couple of weeks to come on this show mentioned Anthony Schwartz. Imrie Hunt loved him as well, So like that, you know, like those sort of things I think are worth paying attention to. It it it sort of gets you, you know, get you in tune. I will also say that you have you might be sort of getting me a little bit more excited about Rashade Bateman and I love I like him a lot as a player. I just worry that his opportunities are sort of capped in Baltimore just because of what their offense is, um like ten years straight now exactly. So like I feel like my my concerns about him aren't about him necessarily, It's just about you know, how the offense sort of operates around him. Um. But I'm also willing to buy into the fact that the Ravens say they want to throw the ball more, which is like the third or fourth year running they've said that. Um, And look, I'm gullible enough to sort of like buy back in again and maybe that will that will swing me to getting Rashade Bateman in a couple of spots. Um. All right, So before I let you go, I know that there are a list of foods as you mentioned, that you just will not eat. So I have to ask, what would you rather do playing an all kicker fantasy league or eating jar of pickles? This this isn't even a question for me. I would rather only play in all kicker leagues for the rest of my life than eat a jar piss pickles. I've been offered five figures pooled together from a bunch of people to eat one, and I won't. And it's the problem is like, and I'm not just fantasy I'm I'm a fantasy analyst. I'm not flushed with millions over here. Like I don't think I'm like Mr Richie rich Tade not taking that type of money. It's here's the thing. It's they actually make me gag and want to throw up. Like imagine like you're a normal person listening drinking like curdled milk or something like gall like that's what it's like for me. Like I actually start to gag and almost throw up, and I just can't. I can't do it. So a jar of pickles, I just I can't do it problems to people who love them, I mean, I don't. I don't leak shame. I play with the said as you love. I don't fruit tae either. You know you love what you love. I'm I just can't eat a pickle. I can't do well. I'm sort of I mean, I think for five figures, I think I might try to choke one down, but I've just given left to my own devices. I would play in an all kicker league over being a jar pickles. I'm with you on that. Also, I'm one of those people who are like, I'm okay with having kickers in the fantasy game. I know that the you know, I know that. I feel like sometimes I'm swimming upstream on that is gonna allow you to flex him this year, So I see that. I'm super excited about that. You know, I'll see what everybody else, what my opponents are doing, and I don't help me decide whether or not it's going to be a smart decision for me, um, but I'm okay with with kickers in the fantasy game. I also say that I don't like things that are pickled. For the most part, I don't. I don't like pickles. I don't like sauer Kraut, I don't like kim chi. Pickled ginger is probably the only one that I can eat. I don't think I've ever had that. It's weird. It's probably because pickles in then him, and that's why I didn't order to get whatever. I totally get it. I absolutely get it. Um, Scott, dude, I appreciate this conversation. I have enjoyed this conversation. Um. For people who don't know, and I think for a lot of folks who listen to this podcast, they probably already know where to find you. But for those that don't, where where can they find what you're doing? Man? Uh. Safe Lea's Fantasy dot Com is where you can join dynasty leagues or re draft leagues. Are unique leagues that I do. Commission Impossible is is the podcast with Ryan McDowell. Commission pot dot com. I guess you can go to to subscribe to that. Um. The safe Leagues were a legal fantasy contest operator license and registered in more states than anyone. Uh, Scott fish bowl dot com. Sign up. If you don't sign up, I can't get you in. You can't play with you can't play with Marcus in that league, if you or any of those celebrities. If you don't sign up, Uh, Scott fish Twitter, that's where you can find just about anything I'm doing out there. Beautiful Again, do I appreciate I appreciate all the work you have done. Uh. And like I said, you have had such a unique career. I have enjoyed kind of following it, you know, for as long as I have, and kind of enjoying seeing where it may go in the future. Um. Yeah, man, any any party shots before we get out of here? Uh No, I don't think so. I think I got everything down. I should say that that that five figures it was it wasn't directly to me. It was it was we will pull up the money to go to charity, and and that's that almost made me consider it. But I didn't do it. Hey man, Sometimes you know, a man's got to those limitations. I certainly understand. It's gott be well man. We will hopefully catch up with you sometime soon. Thanks for having me all right man, and that for us. That is it. We are done. We appreciate you hanging out with the NFL Fantasy Football show, you know the drill. Tell too friends to tell two friends, rate review, and remember is it weird for pawn shops to sell entire chest sets? Be safe, to care of yourselves, Get vaccinated, and we'll see you next week. WO want cocoa about cocoa all
Speaker 1: Wow, what is Welcome to another edition of the NFL Fantasy Football Show. It's me your man, MG, Marcus Grant, and I am fully vaccinated. I'm excited about that. We're getting hopefully a little bit closer to getting back to I would say normal and these or normal in air quotes here, we're getting back to our our before times life something like that. Anyway, a fun show for you, as we normally try to do here. But the one that I'm very very excited about a chance to talk to a guy who has maybe one of the most unique careers I think I have encountered in the fantasy space. And if you have played fantasy football, uh, you know Beyonce just a casual level for any amount of time. It is a name you probably have encountered, and you know, uh, it is the one and only Scott Fish Scott. You know, we have interacted on social media for years now. I believe this is the first time we've ever spoken. You know, I want to say face to face, but you know, digitally face to face. I appreciate you coming on the show, man. How are things. I'm good, I'm good, You're right. I think this is the very first time we've been on the same show to go. I've done NFL Fantasy before, but I can't if you are on that show. So yeah, I think I was no. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good, good, good man. I'm so happy to have you here. We are. We're sort of twinning right now. I was like, I'm gonna have Scott Fish on, so I'm gonna break out my my SFB shirt from last year, eagerly awaiting the new shirts for for one to come out so I can snag one of those. But I decided to pull mine out and you are wearing the exact same shirts, so that makes me feel pretty pretty good. So um, but I just wanted I kinda to start with just sort of about you, because you know, you are one of the more recognizable names in this industry. You've been doing this for you've been doing this longer than than I've been doing is professionally fantasy football wise. Um, but you you know, like a lot of people in this industry, you had a day job at one point, you were working for for PepsiCo and kind of doing fantasy stuff on the side. When did you decide that you could sort of make this into a career for yourself. Yeah, you listed there. I worked for Pepsi for fourteen years or so and my back started to give out. It was it was a lot of work. And about four or five years ago I got a full time offer and I took it immediately. The the wife was fully on board. I didn't want to, you know, break my back and break down. And I talked to people like Liz Losa and Matthew Friedman and Mike tech Leer and Matt Harman former stronghold guy right there. Uh, they had just made the jump at about the same time, and and they pretty much talked me into it. They said I wasn't going to regret it, and with the wife behind me, I made that move and have not regretted it a day since. I mean, it obviously has been great, you know. I mean, obviously this was a hobby for a long long time before you you decided to make the move to making it, you know, your your job. You've sort of started though down the path of I mean, they weren't called Debbie leagues at the time, you know, you were you were sort of doing that long before it was fashionable. I mean, people were just sort of playing redraft leagues, and that was kind of the thing. What wasn't about debbie leagues that sort of attracted you to them? Yeah, I like that you mentioned at the top how my path has been really unique for fantasy analysts because I've I've really, I've really jumped around in different areas the industry. But so I started playing in debbie leagues in the late nineties. Um, And basically it was just a way to get the college players that we watched on Sundays on Saturdays onto our big squad are onto our fantasy teams before you know, before they hit the NFL. We we It was it was an added extra fun thing to do and to to watch the Saturday games and know that this guy is gonna be on my fantasy team in a year or two, right, Um, But that's kind of what it was. It was just something extra to do. And that's kind of what led to me being in the industry is I started going on message boards and a o L chat rooms and stuff just trying to find anyone that did debbie leagues and I couldn't find him anywhere. Like Matt Harmon with Reception, Perception, Reception, he was looking for an answer that wasn't being answered out there right like the answer to a question that wasn't being answered. I was trying to find out anything about you know, what I called him at the time right away was college farm system leagues like baseball farm system leaks, and then it changed to Debbie later on, But basically I was looking for a type of league that didn't exist. And so then after a while of that, I created my own site that you know, it was the first site with Debbie Rankings, Debbie podcast, Debby articles. And that's kind of how my name started circulating in the industry because I was doing that one thing that no one else was doing. And and it's so much fun to me to watch these players grow and eventually get to the NFL, and you know them all before they get to the NFL. It's it's just a fun added benefit to dynasty leagues. Did you ever think that that that part of it would take off? Because it's becoming a bigger I mean, has it surprised you? Did you ever think that was gonna happen? You know when you sit back, and I didn't at all, like, not even remotely. But as I sit here in one and and think about it. It's really not surprising though, right, Like I'll preface it with a couple of rhetorical questions here, but how many fantasy players are there? Like how many college football fans are there? Like it feels like the Venn diagram there are sex pretty pretty large, right, So it feels like it it should have become a big thing, and I'm glad it's becoming more and more a big thing. But like mid two thousand, Scott sitting doing his rankings and Google says he's that's the only site doing them. Yeah, he would be pretty surprised. But this was beautiful about this, right man. There's so many ways to play fantasy we we don't we don't league shame, eight team, ten teams, super flex, IDP, devy, doesn't matter. It's it's awesome that we play this game, that we we can create whatever innovative style we want to play, and and there are other like minded folks out there that want to play it too. I think it's you know, it's funny because you know, I'm not the only one. But I referred to this as we we play a game about a game, um, and we really have been able to slice and dice it in so many different ways to kind of fit everything. And I think that the uh, one of the beauties of this is that the more people that we get to kind of join in and to kind of join the party, um, that creates that many more ways. There are so many more different people thinking about this in other ways that maybe we didn't. Um, it's really kind of amazing. And that that made me think. You know, you wrote uh that you played your first Fantasy League into My first one was in four so I was just a couple of years after you, and so made me think about like I wanted to have a moment for us old old guys out there who've been playing this for a long time, because I say this to younger people, you know, especially like college kids or people are just playing. Um, it was a different time. You had to want it. Like I always say, I use old timey words like answering machine and newspaper because like you have to physically pull in your line up and then like scour like the local newspaper to look at box scores to kind of figure out your score. Um. I mean I would imagine Scott for that's hard enough for the NFL. I would think for you know, playing your farm Systems or Debbie Lees or whatever you were calling it at the time, and had to be just I mean, you really had to want it, and you really had to absolutely. I thought for a minute there we're going to talk about our old Carl Pickens Herman more lineups or something. Um, yeah, you really did have to want it. And I kind of forgot about that, and I'd never want to go back. But I think about it, and I think about this nostalgia of it. The you're watching a game and when a game break happened, that was the most important moment in the game for you because it might be your player that just scored, or that do do doo do doo, dude or whatever that pops up on the bottom of the screen. Huge deal. Every time that would happened and it was just so exciting. Um And I feel like we've lost a little bit of that, but we've gained so many other things, like it's so easy to play now that yeah, it's it's a it's a beautiful thing. But I do I do miss a little bit of the nostalgia of some of those things. I think about that when you know, every once in a while, maybe the app is slow and updating, and so somebody's you know, rushing touchdown does it hit like literally instantly, and somebody will be in my mentions like asking what's wrong with the app, and like part of me like we'll step back and be like, hey, like I lived in a world where I might not get updated standing until like Wednesday or Thursday. Right, yeah, right, So so the fact that you had to wait an extra five minutes for you Dalvin Cook touchdown to show up, like I'm not you know, um I'm speaking of which do you want to talk about your Herman Moore Carl Pickins lineups? No, that's all right. We can go off on a lot of tangents. I was just talking the other day. I mentioned to Stefania Bella, she's a foreign Iris fan, that I remember my ninety nine D five rookie draft jumping on a chair being excited that J. J. Stokes was going to be the next Jerry Rice, he was going to replace him. And then, of course I think Jerry Rice played longer than J. J. Stokes did even after that point. But it's funny. It's funny, you say, because I think I saw that one of your bios that you were hyping JJ Stokes. And I will say this in I was a I was a college sophomore at USC, and so J. J. Stokes had just finished at U C. L A. And I remember his last year there. He wrecked us when we played. He just absolutely wrecked the USC. And then the forty Niners drafted him, and me and my friends who were four Niner fans, were like, all right, well this is the silver lining, right, Like he's gonna be the Niners and he's gonna ball out. So um. So just that's just to say that, don't feel bad. You weren't the only one. He was the first rounder him in Galloway and Westbrook that year. There are such high helps. Yeah yeah, I mean Gallaway was the only guy of that that trio that actually sort of you know, had a decent career. I think that for it. UM. So obviously, the thing that you may be are most known for is the Scott Fish Bowl. Uh this is year eleven, um, But I know it started as something else that was the ff Oasis Invitational a long time ago before it made the transition, um, but now it has become a huge, huge deal. At what point did you realize this was becoming one of the premier events of the fantasy season. Wow, that's that is a tough one. I think it's probably about year five. In year four, I had a wait list about twenty people, um and several of them got in for players that disappeared. But in year five, I think we had more people not get in than actually got in. I think that year was three and sixty teams and we had four hundred some not get in. And I knew it was getting big then. And then the following year is when that year six is when everyone's like all the analysts started playing. We had some analysts, but I think it was the year that analysts were like, oh, this guy's playing all play. Oh this guy's playing all play, and and they just started loading up. And then we got celebrities like you know, James d A from Psych and Scott Porter or Jason Street from Frida night Lights, and like Mike Mills from RM, Shane Battier plays now, like we got a turtle from Honorage, Jerry fer Our plays. Now, you know, we got a bunch of celebrities, former MLB players and stuff, and you know, actually, I have the answer for you it was year six or seven when the O G Stronghold, you and Adam and Alex and that's when you get That's when I knew we'd made it. When the O G Stronghold jumped into the fray, That's when we made it. You know. It's it's I mean, I appreciate you saying that, even it's true, but it is funny because like to see it, and yeah, I would, I'm always excited to kind of get involved and invited to things like that. Um, but to see like how big it is, I mean, I think I think I recognized it. It might have been my second or third year in the league, and and like that's when I started really paying attention to like the hashtag popping up, um, you know, when when the drafts were starting, and the hashtags and the fact that, um, you know what I think you know, I think it is it's not even so much the hashtags. It's the people who are like, I can't deal with us, I'm muting the hashtag, right. I feel like that is when that is when you have reached saturation point. That is when you have reached the point of like, um, when you start getting blowback. It's like Okay, I think I've made it U which is a weird thing to say, but that's that's a Twitter life. It's totally Twitter life. Um, you talk about the people who who apply and have to get weight listed because there's just no spots. I know, you get so many entries every year. How do you go about picking, you know, who who gets the golden ticket in any given year. Yeah, that's that's always the tough part. Every the first year, the first wave or two of invites, I have to do them in waves of several hundred at a time because otherwise I go crazy because I I try to do this. I try to make it personal. I send each invite, you know, like I I, Well, I do it very I have a lot of automation to it, but I want to like be very hands on with it. But uh, the first couple of waves are basically analysts that we know. Ryan McDonell helps me. Ryan and I know and we know that they're in at the site, the website, they're they're an analyst, they're they're active. We know who they are. We get them in right away because you know they're an active analyst in the industry, and we know who they are. Then you know, as it goes further down, it becomes fantasy sites that are trying to you know, make their way up that we might not know as well. This because this event is really about community. It's really about connecting and charitable you know, uh, charitable endeavors. But it's uh, you know, we want the whole community to get together for one big event. So we start going through those sites. And as far as fans, we do lots of contests, We do lots of giveaways. Whenever we go on shows, we try to give away spots. Um, we let shows give away their own spots. And we have a fun little random fan button in our back our back end, our our adminary that you just click it and it puts a random fan in. So um, there are lots of ways you can get in. But it's it is a process, no, no question at all. You talk about the charitable, charitable part of this, and that is I know a huge part of of what uh you know, the fish Bowl is, you know, the fantasy cares, you know, initiatives and everything. Um. For you, when did you decide that that this was going to be sort of your way to outreach, you know, to to combine these two things of charity and fantasy. When when did you decide that this is going to be part of it? Yeah, so that came around that year five or six Zone as well. It was I had a friend in the industry that did a small toys for top drive just for you know, he got toys together in Las Vegas to give away the kids in Las to get to your toys for Todds in Las Vegas. And I helped him with that one year and the then next year he couldn't do it anymore. And this was also coinciding with I had just had a heart attack at thirty five and forty one. Now, so, um, I just had a heart attack. And you get that sense in the back of your brain that you just you want to be the best possible version of yourself. You want people to see you as the best possible You have young children, you know, I want them to you know, see that's the version of me I want them to see. And you just want to do good. And I think, uh, those things coinciding at the same time, Uh kind of led to it was either SFB six or seven. We we brought in a charitable element. Um, I've been going on radio and podcast for a long time. Tagging at the end, I think you want to say, and I'd say, give one of your entry fees to charity. The league won't miss it. You're doing something good. There's a hundred thousand fantasy leagues. If we all got together and gave one entry fee to charity, we could do a ton of good out there. And I think it really came to life right in that SFB five or six zone, right after that heart attack, right when I took over the toys for Todd Strive for that guy. Just a perfect you know, confluence of events right at the same time. And I've I've seen you know, a lot more leagues and participated in a lot more leagues where that is kind of becoming the thing where you know, the the entry fee is being donated to charity, or you know, the people involved are playing for a particular charity and not for their own personal benefit. Um. And you know, I mean even if you will say I feel like that is a direct influence of what you have done, um, which look, I think what you've done is amazing. I think, and I think it's it's been pretty cool to sort of see this sort of spread out throughout the industry. Um, you know, because look, you're right, we all play in so many leagues. Like you know, at some point it's fine. We just you know, if you throw a few bucks to help somebody else out. I think that that sort of works out. I think it's it's good for everybody. Yeah, I can't tell you which one. I think. I like that aspect more than the dev side you mentioned. You know, what's it like to see devy having grown this bag and it's amazing, But seeing five, six, seven years ago, I don't remember seeing charitable leagues out there much at all, and now you can't turn around without seeing them. There's a tournament for this charity, there's a tournament for that charity. There's and I think if i've if that is you know, a decent part due to what I've done. Man, that's something I'm hugely proud of and and I'm I hope that becomes my leg as the in the fancy industry when I retire or whatever, because that's it's beautiful that that has happened. I love seeing it. That would be amazing. Yeah, And I feel like we've also seen it even beyond fantasy. I mean, I immediately think of Bills fans donating to the Andy Dalton Foundation after the Bills, after the Bengals helped the Bills get into the playoffs a couple of years ago. So, um, it is. I think it's. I think it's it's an amazing thing to do. Um. A couple of things about the fish Bowl that that really entertained me besides just playing it. One, I'm glad you said entertained instead of Annoyer like the Okay, So the I gotta ask about the fake names or the names of fictional characters that show up in the waiver wire. How did that stuff? Because I remember like once like meeting quarterback or something because like somebody was hurt or on a buy and I'm scrolling down and I see like Johnny Utah and Shane Falco and I'm like, how did that start? Yeah? It actually started in SFB three or four when the theme was Technobowl and we had Bo Jackson and Tom Rathman and stuff, and I thought it would be fun to throw in some old school Techmobowl characters, um, and to be draft able, and people notice they had a good time with it. And so I've tried to every year include something like that. Some characters this year the themes of music, and I think we might see some some you know, musicians entered the draft all right. I mean it's like I noticed that that first yard play, Like I said, I was scrolling the waiver while looking for him. And now it's become the thing where like, as soon as the draft is over, like I go scrolling through to see like a bunch of names who might be there. Um, you mentioned the theme is music, and I know that's that's a big part of this every year, trying to figure out what the theme is going to be. But we had cartoons, We've had I think kids toys. Um, are are there any out there that you haven't done that you're still sort of itching to do? I think eleven years in, I'm I'm it's more to the point where I'm struggling to try to figure one out each year than it is itching to do one. One that came up for potentially this year, but the wheels were really in motion, and I uh, influential women came up as a possibility for this year, but it came up after we already had music planned. We had a bunch of stuff in motion. And I talked to some women behind the scenes, women in the industry, and we felt, maybe do that next year and do it right, you know, have a website op that has all these amazing women and what they did, so people can you know, have it as a learning experience and and so I think that's something we might do next year. My wife keeps recommending it should be foods I refused to eat because she says we can get a hundred two hundred divisions easily just for that. Uh yeah, I I do have exciting I know that you and I have similar some some foods that we will not eat together. We'll eat, I guess in comments. So I I do. I do have that in my in my back pocket to ask you a little bit later. But um, the other thing again, this is all part of you having one of the more unique careers in this industry. You and Ryan McDow will do a podcast about and four commissioners. Um, it's not I mean, it is not an orthodox line of thinking, but it is. Again you talk about questions that need to be answered that really nobody's answering. That feels like one what what is that? What made you started why why did you decide to do a podcast four commissioners? It was I yeah, I'm not exactly sure what made us decided, but it was a thing where Ryan mcdonalen and I consistently got peppered with commissioner questions and a lot of them were similar questions that we feel like we've answered many times before. UM. So we we realized with all these questions and these stories and these you know, they they shoot out their interesting league ideas at us too, because they were were kind of known for innovative creative leagues out there. So we decided to start a start our podcast, Commission Impossible, to help other commissioners out with their you know, they're tricky issues. Um also for league members to like here interesting settings that maybe they want to bring to their league. We discussed bad commission stories, creative league ideas. I mentioned, uh we go o for listener questions. But the coolest thing I think about about Commission Impossible is it's evergreen and you don't see that in the fantasy industry. Like you can go back and listen to episode four and it's got stuff that's probably relevant still today. People tell us all the time they go back and they listen to all our episodes after they find us because they're only twenty to thirty minutes apiece. And um, it's I think you're right. I think it was just something that was not out there, kind of like Debby you kind of like whatever, It's just something that was not I didn't see any comming shier podcasts out there. Commissioners said trick podcast. It's a small market, but hey, it's a it's a very interesting show. It's a small market, but it is I mean in terms of fantasy sports, it is an important market. Um. And I feel like it is maybe the most thankless job when it comes when it comes to fantasy sports. Um, I mean, how many leagues have you been the commissioner of? Have you? Can you even keep count at this point? So I run a commissioner service that currently has over a thousand leagues that I commissioner every year that I commission so that I'm commissioner of every year. I would say if you count each, I don't know thousands, it's thousands upon thousands of leagues I've commissioned. In This upcoming year will be my thirtieth year playing fantasy football. So uh yeah, thousands is what I'll go with. You are like the Pete Rosel of fantasy football. Right, it's a long time. Yeah, I'm gonna say. You know, like kids look it up like there was they were, like there were commissioners before Roger Goodell, believe it or not. So it was a thing that happened. Um, you talk about those some of the different formats and ideas and tweets of the game and how we slice and dice it. What are some of the wildest ones you you can remember being a part of. Oh man, oh this is this is I love this. We have so many we talked about on that show. We talked about so many interesting league ideas. In Ryan and I have done some really really cool ones. Last year I was in one with Ryan that Um, it was much like a guillotine league, which is where the bottom team is axed at the end of each week, the bottom scoring team and his players go to the waiver wire. So that happened. But also it was like a vampire or pirate league where you got to you had had to add matchup and you also stole an appointments player. So like if you're playing against the se Kwon Barkley guy, um the you know or whatever player you could steal him from him, any player, his best player, you get to steal that, and then you draft the players that have been caught each tweak. That was. That was pretty crazy and pretty fun. I've also been in the league that was like a board game, like a D and D game, Dungeons and Dragons game, where you had goals you had to accomplish each week, where your fantasy points would like add up together and you try to take down a monster and then you'd earn gold or whatever, and you you have hit points. Like it combined fantasy with board games, which was quite interesting. And then there's like superpower leagues where you can freeze the guy's score mid game, or you can you have some kind of accelerator that doubles your quarterback score whatever. Like in these these superpowers are tradeable assets, you know, Like there's so many. The creativity is endless in our game, and I've I've played in a lot of them. I love hearing about new ones too. That that is amazing. I'm like, especially you talk about the board games, because for a long time I've referred to fantasy sports as dungeons and dragons for sports nerds. Um, so you you sort of combined those. Which do you think you talk about Vinn diagrams. I think the Vinn diagram of like people who love fantasy sports and people who you know, play like RPGs and stuff like that feel like it's a bigger overlap. Then maybe we want to see that. I think we're all We're all nerds in our own special way. Um, just our areas of nerd a treat tend to be a little bit different. All Um. Obviously, every year there are new leagues, there are new people who decide they want to be commissioners. What advice would you give to somebody who is, you know, thinking about or is becoming a first time commissioner? Yeah, so I guess I have about I have two or three that I usually give to first time commissioners. Is the first one is if you haven't started the league yet, either create the league you want with the settings you want, then go find the owners that that want to play in that style. So you've created what you want, and then you go find the owners or find a group you want to play with, and then decide the rules together. The most issues Ryan and I have heard from emailers is when they try to split the metal. They create a league they want, but then they get the owners and then they start changing the rules. Or you get a group together and you want to either run one running it, but they wanted to be more of a you know, like a democracy for how to create the league. That's where we find the issues. But if you start it with the settings you want and just find owners that want to play in that league, it seems to work out well. Vice versa. If you find eleven other people or whatever, you discuss the league rules, make it together, those seem to work out the best. And the second tip I have is also always have the best interest clause, like the last rule of your things should be should circumstances, issues, or problems arise for which like a remedy is not stated in the rules, the commissioner reserves the right to take whatever actions he deems necessary in the best interest of the league, and that will close loopholes in case someone finds a little loophole that that could hurt the league, that can help close those loopholes when it happens, and and commissioners should always look to close loopholes, not to exploit them, UM make decisions they are best for the league, not what's in the best interests of your team, etcetera, etcetera. That I mean, I feel like that it all makes sense. And I love the point about you know, either setting setting your settings the way you want them or or having to be a democracy and not in between. Like the thought that comes to mind is like, it's like trying to order a pizza right with ten people. Like, if you're trying to order pizzas with ten people, either what's gonna happen is that everybody is essentially gonna get their own pizza or you're going to get one pizza that like nobody really likes because you have to put everything on there to try to satisfy all these people. Uh and in the end, you know, you're gonna get like pineapple and anchovies and black olives and it's gonna be disgusting and nobody's gonna want to eat the pizza. So uh yeah, I think I think that's pretty cool. Um, I can't have you on here and not talk at least something about actual fantasy football beyond the nuts and bolts, and so I you know, I kind of want to pick your brain in terms of, uh, you know, your background obviously is is devy and that sort of thing, and looking at prospects and and and all that. When you are, you know, looking at a group of incoming rookies, for instance, what what is important to you in terms of of who, uh you're going to maybe target when you're drafting, and and and that sort of stuff. Yeah, So I feel like this has changed for me over the years. Back in the day, I used to watch a ton of players and I would look for skills that I thought could translate in the NFL, and I still do to degree, but as I've gotten busier, I found myself depending more on the analysis of some of the great minds and the industry, like you had Emery on Um, like Matt Waldman and stuff. And it puts me in a spot where I can take what they've look at what they've done, and then the smaller amount of watching I do, I can I can you know, see if I agree or not, and and it helps me a little bit with time crunching. I think one thing I found that I put more emphasis on now than I did in the past, and I'm I feel like I've become a better player for it is uh taking a better look at at the draft capital of where players are drafted, because because back in the day, when I watched tons and tons of like from we're talking grainy high school video yeo, of people coming out of high school throughout college, I developed these huge biases for players like and no matter if they were drafting the fourth or fifth round, I'm like, I don't care. I've loved him for three years, you know. And now I'm starting to get to the point where draft capital matters a whole lot more for me, because that does translate to success, but it also really really translates to opportunity in the NFL. And that's something that I didn't do before and I do more now, and I'm I'm I feel like I've I've been better for it. And in Dynasty, I've become much more of a win now player nowadays. And everybody says talent overlanding spot, talent overlanding spot. It's it is true to a degree, but that early landing spot does matter a little. That's why when people when the NFL Draft happens, people's rankings change. The rookie rankings change right after, and it's because of that draft capital and to a lesser degree that Landing spot. Um, I don't factor it quite as much as as the draft capital or what I've watched on them, And I do take it into account because even though Landing's back spot can turn on a dime, it still does matter a little bit earlier, like a look at Diamy Brown, Like I really like Deamy Brown because he's going to be with a d G A F type of throwers. Patrick's potentially can be the starting deep ball contested catch guy for him. I like that a lot more than I possibly did before, you know, and I completely agree. And there are so many things you said there that immediately just like it. It warmed my heart. I mean, you know, first first off, the the the idea of sort of uh kind of leaning on the expertise and knowledge of others, because I say this as the father of a two year old son, like I don't have the time to sit and watch you know, as much tape as I have in the past. So it is about sort of kind of maximizing and using an economy of times. And so maybe you read other people's evaluations and you do your own. You do a little bit of research to figure out how much you agree or disagree. Um, but yeah, I don't. I don't have the time to go back and watch you know, a hundred prospects anymore, just because you know, that's that's sort of life. But the other part of it that that I really sort of gravitate toward is the idea of um, you know, landing spots, draft capital over over town. We all, we all love talent. We all want to find that guy that we think can be that diamond in the rough. UM. But you know, I I see it with you know, you see guys who have like a little bit of a hive right behind them. I made the jumps to mind. I think was Tyler Johnson right in in Tampa, UM. And people love him, and he's a super talented guy. He doesn't get on the field very often because they've got a lot of really talented players ahead of him. I mean, so he may make one spectacular catch in a game and and his hive on Twitter kind of lights up and talks about how he's gonna be a big thing. And maybe he will, but right now he's still continue with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown and Rob Gronkowski and all the talent in the world doesn't necessarily help you. Um, if you're not getting on the field and getting those opportunities. And I think that's a thing that's sometimes I think you're right. I think when you when you watch guys and you you make notes and you study, um, you sort of forget about that part because like, man, I watched this dude play through an entire you know, Max season, and he was running people over and you know, I think he can be great. Um, if his coaching staff doesn't give him the opportunity, it's just it's just never really gonna happen. Um. You mentioned Dammy Brown, who's a guy I think has sleeper potential this year, and then Washington offense. Um, anybody else that that you saw or paid attention to that really has caught your eye this year? Yeah, Well, you know this isn't it's not quite as deep. But I I didn't hate the Bateman spot as much as like he was my wide receiver too before the draft, right, Like, and maybe it's partially because I'm a go for Pan fan, but I feel like he does everything well. I know, he ran like a four or three nine. It doesn't feel like he's got that top end speed, but you know, I guess it is. There be such a good, great contested catch. Guy feels like he does everything well. And Lamar Jackson through three six touchdowns just two years ago. Yeah, like like, I don't think it's the worst spot in the world, but I'm loving when I can get him at the end of the first I like taking Terris Marshall, I mean eight plus percent from the slot. He can jump right into that. Curtis Uh, Samuel Rollo, he's back with Joe Brady, And I love when a college coach is like, you know, I know this guy, I want him and bring him in right like that. It feels like there's a confidence there. And Robbie Robbie Anderson might be gone next year. You know, Terence is a guy that can move outside to UM. I like that. I like guys like Anthony Schwartz, you know, maybe maybe a little more long term, little speedy guy there over in Cleveland, Josh Palmer. You know, it's hard, it's hard to ignore the lack of production in college, but it's also hard to doing nore that Mike Williams might leave after this year, and he would grow up with Justin Herbert over there. So, um, I tend to like we're talking about like Schwartz and Palmer, like fourth round darth Row right like, and this is a draft where after about two, after about a round and a half, maybe the end of the second, you're like, okay, whatever, let's try to figure this out, right, So fourth fourth rounders with some potential like that, those are those are guys that you know I've been taking shots at. It's funny too. It's when you talk about getting past the first maybe the first couple of rounds of you know, a rookie draft or whatever. That's when I feel like that's when I get my Google on the most right. It's like I'll see a list of guys and then maybe you know three or four guys that I'm sort of trying to figure out which. By the way, thank goodness for slow drafts in the rookie drafts man, because if you if you have to put me on a clock, it would be awful. But um, it is it's where you sort of kind of get your Google on and you try to figure out, you know, from from his his draft prospects and pro comparisons to the beat reporters checking out what what you know a guy could be after he's drafted. I think that is where That's where it's a lot of fun to try to figure out, you know, will you know what will Josh Palmer be? Um, you know a few years from now. You are the second person in the last couple of weeks to come on this show mentioned Anthony Schwartz. Imrie Hunt loved him as well, So like that, you know, like those sort of things I think are worth paying attention to. It it it sort of gets you, you know, get you in tune. I will also say that you have you might be sort of getting me a little bit more excited about Rashade Bateman and I love I like him a lot as a player. I just worry that his opportunities are sort of capped in Baltimore just because of what their offense is, um like ten years straight now exactly. So like I feel like my my concerns about him aren't about him necessarily, It's just about you know, how the offense sort of operates around him. Um. But I'm also willing to buy into the fact that the Ravens say they want to throw the ball more, which is like the third or fourth year running they've said that. Um, And look, I'm gullible enough to sort of like buy back in again and maybe that will that will swing me to getting Rashade Bateman in a couple of spots. Um. All right, So before I let you go, I know that there are a list of foods as you mentioned, that you just will not eat. So I have to ask, what would you rather do playing an all kicker fantasy league or eating jar of pickles? This this isn't even a question for me. I would rather only play in all kicker leagues for the rest of my life than eat a jar piss pickles. I've been offered five figures pooled together from a bunch of people to eat one, and I won't. And it's the problem is like, and I'm not just fantasy I'm I'm a fantasy analyst. I'm not flushed with millions over here. Like I don't think I'm like Mr Richie rich Tade not taking that type of money. It's here's the thing. It's they actually make me gag and want to throw up. Like imagine like you're a normal person listening drinking like curdled milk or something like gall like that's what it's like for me. Like I actually start to gag and almost throw up, and I just can't. I can't do it. So a jar of pickles, I just I can't do it problems to people who love them, I mean, I don't. I don't leak shame. I play with the said as you love. I don't fruit tae either. You know you love what you love. I'm I just can't eat a pickle. I can't do well. I'm sort of I mean, I think for five figures, I think I might try to choke one down, but I've just given left to my own devices. I would play in an all kicker league over being a jar pickles. I'm with you on that. Also, I'm one of those people who are like, I'm okay with having kickers in the fantasy game. I know that the you know, I know that. I feel like sometimes I'm swimming upstream on that is gonna allow you to flex him this year, So I see that. I'm super excited about that. You know, I'll see what everybody else, what my opponents are doing, and I don't help me decide whether or not it's going to be a smart decision for me, um, but I'm okay with with kickers in the fantasy game. I also say that I don't like things that are pickled. For the most part, I don't. I don't like pickles. I don't like sauer Kraut, I don't like kim chi. Pickled ginger is probably the only one that I can eat. I don't think I've ever had that. It's weird. It's probably because pickles in then him, and that's why I didn't order to get whatever. I totally get it. I absolutely get it. Um, Scott, dude, I appreciate this conversation. I have enjoyed this conversation. Um. For people who don't know, and I think for a lot of folks who listen to this podcast, they probably already know where to find you. But for those that don't, where where can they find what you're doing? Man? Uh. Safe Lea's Fantasy dot Com is where you can join dynasty leagues or re draft leagues. Are unique leagues that I do. Commission Impossible is is the podcast with Ryan McDowell. Commission pot dot com. I guess you can go to to subscribe to that. Um. The safe Leagues were a legal fantasy contest operator license and registered in more states than anyone. Uh, Scott fish bowl dot com. Sign up. If you don't sign up, I can't get you in. You can't play with you can't play with Marcus in that league, if you or any of those celebrities. If you don't sign up, Uh, Scott fish Twitter, that's where you can find just about anything I'm doing out there. Beautiful Again, do I appreciate I appreciate all the work you have done. Uh. And like I said, you have had such a unique career. I have enjoyed kind of following it, you know, for as long as I have, and kind of enjoying seeing where it may go in the future. Um. Yeah, man, any any party shots before we get out of here? Uh No, I don't think so. I think I got everything down. I should say that that that five figures it was it wasn't directly to me. It was it was we will pull up the money to go to charity, and and that's that almost made me consider it. But I didn't do it. Hey man, Sometimes you know, a man's got to those limitations. I certainly understand. It's gott be well man. We will hopefully catch up with you sometime soon. Thanks for having me all right man, and that for us. That is it. We are done. We appreciate you hanging out with the NFL Fantasy Football show, you know the drill. Tell too friends to tell two friends, rate review, and remember is it weird for pawn shops to sell entire chest sets? Be safe, to care of yourselves, Get vaccinated, and we'll see you next week. WO want cocoa about cocoa all
